Anthony Palma Child Killer 30 Year Cold Case Police interrogation

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I run on nick tain and caffeine d We're the
same age. And uh, I tell you any more.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
If I ain't, I drink a lot of water, and
I had some stomach issues. In the ducks that drink water,
it really helps to the end of the w I
I the indigestion real bad and it's just chewing.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
But I won't give it up.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
But if I can sleep through the night or get
about four or five hours without having to get up
and pee, yeah, about six.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
I don't I know exactly like exactly what you talk about.
You know what that's you? If that's me.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
When we fly, we we have a family out of state,
so we have to fly there.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
The day before I leave. I started dehydrating myself. I
ken't stand and get on a plane and have to
try to pee, and it never fails. I don't know
if it's the cabin pressure of pot. I go pee
five seconds before I get on. As soon as it
gets up.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
In the air, I gotta go peet.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
You know, and everyone you were walking down the hall,
but I'll trying to get people out of your way.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
And especially when you got really really good. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
So I've learned to just dehydrate myself like crazy before.
It never fails, and it never fails. It seems like
I drink more at night whenever I go to bed.
I have to have something right there, cause yeah, I
get up two or three times to do my uh

(01:32):
my neighbor viser, uh huh, and then you have to
have something to drink the wash the jumpiness out.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
M my.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Uh grandson's got asthma real bad and uh he starts
sweezing where he just and w We're fighting with the
insurance company to get him one of those breathing things
so then you give and treatments at home instead of
have to go pay a thousand dollars at.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
The r to give a breathing treatment. The insurance company says, well, no,
you gotta have a prescription from a doctor to get it.
We're going what you do, although both my machines were
gave to me. You know, how do you have to
do the steroid stuff that you put in? You have
a prescription, right? Is that how that works?

Speaker 3 (02:23):
We're all saw fat and something.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Mkay, he's gonna be nice to you anyway. Well, I
know you said no, but I was telling you be
drinking and got somebody or offering made them have a
little advantage over me. Tell me they've met you before,
and uh, one of the kind of I thank you
for coming down here to talk to it. Well, you
know that if it's I'm as a stay employd you

(02:49):
know it's something we have to do. Well you have
to buy it by all right, Well, we appreciate all enforcements.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
And and here's where we're kind of bat where Uh
we're still looking at the person Hatfield night and we're
going back and we're talking to a lot of the people.
And I know over the years.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
You weren't there the first time they said there were
you m You.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Know now I was with Miller the the last time
that I used to talk to you about the other dealers.
Yeah you Uh, over seventeen years, I know in my
life I've changed a lot. And uh so we wanted
to talk to you about if you can kind of
tell me seventeen years ago, how your life was, how

(03:38):
that neighborhood was, what was going on in that neighborhood.
I know I've talked, I've read some of the reports
that uh from the interviews before and how it appears
to me that you they call you Uncle Tony around
there because you care about the kids.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
You re feed of the kids out. Yeah, basically about
there lived there.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
There was a bunch of older people that was like
an I don't not a no retirement like most of
the people in that area were old retirees. Yeah, and
you know, I being I liked doing stuff all the time.
You know, I was always outside and if somebody's working
on their vehicle and got to go, be busy by
any you know and help 'em or somebody's washing machine

(04:23):
was broke down. The older people, you know, they can't
night older people, right, you know, can't do stuff. And
I've always been mechanically inclined, you know where I could
figure stuff out, you know, right, or help 'em move
there or you know, just I've always been not don't
know about friendly, but neighborly right, And i'd been my

(04:44):
first home, right, you know, I tried to make it
work that neighborhood was my home.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Well, did you help any of the kids over there? Well,
wasn't the pizza? Yeah, I've always there's always that's you
might kill eight houses. Well, I don't know about kool aid.
That's always been my pet. Peeves I grew up hungry,
you know, and I don't. There's a lot of kids

(05:12):
hungry now, you know, and I I don't like that.
I mean not where I go out of my way
at gungry. But I mean you see kids you're over
there eating something and they're just right, you know, you
see 'em draw right, take it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
I can't stand now. Yeah, and I'm that like that. Now.
I got two damn kids in my house, drone boys.
One they he.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Says that when he was at his house, they are
they didn't. He didn't eat from money to Friday til
he got to my house.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
You know, that's that's one of the stories I t
I won't turn upon as some people. You ever leave
me alone? Oh when we get started here tell me.
Let me go ahead, and I wanna read your Marinda warning. Okay,
but uh, you have the rite room in silent. Anything
you say can and may be used to be streaming
for the wall. You have the right talk to a lawyer,
and having present with you already being questioned. If you

(06:03):
cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed
to represent you, be pointed questioning if you wish one,
and if you decide to make a statement, you can
stop at anytime. And do you understand each of those rights?
I is landy having those rights in mind? Do you
wish to talk to us? Okay?

Speaker 3 (06:21):
As my partner.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Lander said, we're still working on the Hatfield case, okay,
and there's.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Some things that we want to go back over with you.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
We try to be as thorough as we can be
in cases like this, and I'd like to go back
initially over some of what you've already talked to the
Tatler about in the past. I wasn't there. I'm kind
of up to speed on some of it. But my
understanding is when Kirsten disappeared, you were still living there,

(06:58):
just at eleven or four, right, mkay? Do you mind
just initially kind of take us back to nineteen ninety
seven and go back over that maybe that evening before
and end of that morning when all of it all
kind of start blowing up, and just best you can

(07:19):
tell us everything.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
You remember and t and take your.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Time when we're going back some some years. Yeah, I'm
starting to get that old timer stuff. But really the
only thing I can.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Really remember is afterwards, you know, when you know, cause
it it was just a a typical day, you know,
got off work with Dad's upper bus TV. When I
cause used to being a landscaper, my yard was my pride.
Everybody wanted to play in my yard because my yard
was nothing but burd muta. Yeah, I mean I had,

(08:00):
but you know, I just had burned me to grass. Sure,
but I mean not that they came over there. But
that's what I did. I always always worked from my yard.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
And and back then.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
You were you said you were working at the capitol. Yeah,
so okay, see you were very experienced. Pep play hard
on you.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah, I uh, well, you know, got chemical locess all
the gap and all that, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Okay, do you remember anything about the the day or
evening before you said it was just a typical day.
You worked all day and then went home. Do you
remember anything unusual about that evening that stands out to
you now.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Other than when I told him about, you know, seeing
the white truck, you know, in front of their the
white Chevy truck in front.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Of their yard. Kay.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
You know, n I I, like I said, I didn't.
I didn't have anything to do with those people. Didn't
know 'em at all, you know, Kay, it's not like
I went, hey, yeah, you you got to live the
other though. It was nothing like that, Okay. I was
usually I was outside working in my yard, you know,
either top of the neighbors or.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
Chid would come back down me can you fix my bike?
You know, stuff like that. Mm. You know. It wouldn't
like I'd tell him to come over anything.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
I wouldn't go to other people's houses unless you know,
I'm I was needed or.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Something like that. But everybody just got don't you'll fix
your bike? And no, no, you know, and I.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Try to make it feel like, you know, that was
kind of a safe place, you know, for you know,
cause I had Tristy at the time. She wasn't there
during that time, but I had Tristy there since she
was you know, small, and whenever she was there, you know,
the kids would come and play with her. And she.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Was my well one of my girlfriend's daughters that stayed
with me a lot. Okay, so he had a good bond.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
With Tristy house. Yeah, yeah, but she had her mom. Yeah,
it was mom's dead unfortunately a melody wonder which things
she wanted to go to?

Speaker 3 (09:59):
How m okay, now, uh, grown, I'm assuming yeah about thirty. Kay. Now,
I we don't talk that much anymore cause everybody's.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Into this computer stuff and that's how they communic get
the communicate. But my daughter was looking on her Facebook
and she'd send us a text that she was fixed
to have a.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Or that I'm a grandfather. No, she had a daughter. O. Good.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
You said you didn't know them. I'm assuming you're meeting
Shannon and first 'em.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah. Or And I couldn't even tell you how long
they they'd.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Lived there, Okay, I was gonna actually ask you that. See,
you didn't know how long they've been living there when
this happened.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Then I going to think they hadn't been there very long.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
And and tell me what you remember about that. You
remember seeing a move in or anything. No, I'm trying
to remember. I they're a friend of mine lived in
that house.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Well, I can't remember what his damn name is. But
he had a uh janitorial service mm Jenny king M.
And I visit with him. I helped to put the
fence up around his house, you know, helped him in fact,
his boy come up missing one day. Really Yeah, he
was like seven or eight or younger than that.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
And we went and looked and everywhere for and we
finally found him. He was under the bed.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
With the sleeve pery crawling and I bet, but I
mean everybody was freaking. We had Midewis City out there,
and of course, you know, everybody in the neighborhood was
out there looking at him. Here we're you know, going
up street, you know, hallering his name. And then she
call said, he up. We found him, he said, the mood.
That's usually where we start. You learned that early on
in UH left school.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Check all the closets, check check out in the boat
in the backyard and shit. So you're saying this friend
of yours lived at UH the house was shown a
chen move right, Okay? And was that immediately before them
or do you know do you remember.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Or did you ever play? I don't remember, to take
the truth, and I don't remember if after he moved out,
if there had been somebody in that house before they did.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
Or or what. I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
You remember that guy's name, now, you said you did.
William was his first name, kay. I don't remember what
his last name was, but that's been football back. And
you said you helped put up the fence around the property,
so we're talking about the.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Start off in the buck. Yeah, so you and William
put that up, yeah plank at a time that the
old old school way.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Yeah yeah, well actually we had to put it up
twice cause we had a storm come in and it
moved one side all the way back down, so we
had to go play it back.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
Began to finally put the the steel the mat uh holes.
Yeah okay.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
So had you ever been inside that house when that
gentleman lived there with her? Yeah again yeah, okay, And
you don't recall his name, but he owned or worked
for Janny King.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I think he had a.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
What do you call it? You know? Uh anyway, Yeah
I did. Yeah, it was a janitorial service.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
But you know, you can have a piece of that company,
but you'll still be the company that you're a little train.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
That's the criticals everywhere.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
So you never I'm assuming you probably saw Shannon and
person running around the neighborhood and so.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Forth, to tell you the truth, until that happened.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
I'm I I think I seen the kid one time,
she was playing with the uh Crystal that lived up
the street.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
I don't remember if there was in that time frame
or what. I don't. I don't really don't, because like
I said, I didn't pay no attention.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Kay.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Do you remember ever, like giving food to Kurston, talking
to kursh time, you know, was she ever at your house?
Anything like that?

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Do you remember I'm.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Actually a leery guy until you know people start coming around,
you know, I just I'm just oh yeah, I would
be your friend of them?

Speaker 3 (14:29):
No, not like that. Yeah, but I didn't know. I did.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
I did, I didn't have don't didn't pay attention to
you know, who all was there or who they were?
You don't and things like that in my world, just
falling in place, you know, we accidentally meet Oh okay, yeah, no,
I know you didn't get them then, but no never.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Never do you ever recall helping Kirston with her by
no or anything?

Speaker 3 (14:51):
You don't remember any interactions with No, No, I know them,
any interactions. I didn't.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
I didn't know them at all. And I, like I said,
I don't even know how long they've been living there
until that happened, Okay, because I was always me.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
That was back when I was fishing.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
I'd Jessy'd come off of work and load up a
post go to drugmard and sometimes i'd stay there all night.
But uh, i'd always have you know, second jobs, you know,
after after our jobs, either landscaping or anything, anything to
make a bud.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Okay, I'm pretty sure that did. Doctor Miller talked to
you this before. But am I correct that you said
you had never been over there and mowing for Shannon
or property or Okay, seems like that that'd come up.
Somebody thought you might have been mowing over there or something.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Now, well, he was asking if it's about something about
a handyman, was what he was.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
Asking me about.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Okay, Well, do you remember ever mowing over there or
anything like that? Okay, did while they lived there? Do
you remember ever being in the yard the front or
backyard for any reason?

Speaker 3 (16:01):
Kind?

Speaker 2 (16:01):
How about in the house? Okay, So there was never
any time that Shannon asked for your health to fix.

Speaker 5 (16:09):
This or that, or mow the yard for me or Okay,
it's tell the truth, and you know, we go And
I didn't even recognize her when y'all showed me the
pictures over.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
That was the only time I could actually say, okay
that you know I met her once afterwards she was
going up and down the street and you know she
was still looking for her kid, and you know, I
met her once. I gave her some money since you'd
have gas money, so she could keep doing what she
was doing. You know, was this like in the days
days after or yeah, talking about.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Let's let me bounce back a little bit, we got
off a little bit off track.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
I was kind of having to go back over what
you remember through the night, and I read over the
the FBI notes that they took when they talk to you.
I guess there was some information about you hearing dogs barking.
I had a dog in the backyard dog as they
was a dog. About three or four o'clock in the morning,
you went to raising hell. So I just you know,

(17:12):
up but later or not.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
In my neighborhood, we still have scolds and possums and
stuff like that, plus other dogs.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
You know.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
So I don't know why that woke me up, but
because I usually didn't wake up, and usually he's out
inside anyway, but he woke me up, and he was
barking at that back fence, at our back fence.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
But at the.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Time, as you walked out my back door, I had
an apricot tree. So unless you went out there, you know,
you couldn't see, and I just hollered at him because,
you know, taking there was another dog, because there was
always in traffic.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
There was human traffic back there, but usually as other dogs.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, there was other dogs, your cats, and there's always
animals through there. So I just, you know, I really
didn't take nothing about it. I just hollered at him,
and he came in and I went back to bed.
So you actually let him back in the house. So
you opened what your back door.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
I'm assuming, and let you know, did you go investigate
Did you look down the alley anything like that?

Speaker 1 (18:08):
No, cause usually in the past, whenever I did, that's
what it was was, you know, either another dog or
peop would use that alleyway, you know, to get through.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
Why.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
I don't know, cause I mean, I don't know where
you'd be going with it and from house to house,
but there was always not always, but there.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Was there was traffic, mkay.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
And in speaking of the alleyway, did you have any
kind of a gate or anything that went out to it,
see you didn't have access to it through your backyard.
I I mean, I I think nobody be ideal to
be able to go out into the alley and you
could buy a trailer up and it seems like everybody'd
have a game.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
The house next door to me had didn't have a fence,
so whenever I we'd eat it or you know, did whatever,
cause I always we eated, you know, two foot around
from my fence, you know, next door.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
And then that alleyway, which the alleyway was cause I read.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Your your uh statement, you said you saw your gate ajar.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
What your gate was.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
That gated jar?

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (19:14):
You didn't have a gate on the back there on
the side.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Did you have a gate on the side of that, Yeah,
we got a gate. Well it's yeah, it's a gay
but now they wasn't won a door, mkay.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
It it anything else that night after you let a
dog back in, did anything else occur that you remember?

Speaker 1 (19:35):
No?

Speaker 3 (19:35):
I went back to bed me double mkay.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
And then when did you first become aware of uh
person was missing.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
And all that?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
So?

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Well, the next day there was all that activity and
I asked neighbor across the street that was going on.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
They said they couldn't find.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Cursed and I didn't think nothing about it, you know,
I went to work and then I I don't remember
if she called me or I called over there or
what they said. They just wanted people back, you know,
because they wanted to go through our houses and blah
blah blah. So flocked out, came back home.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
W do you remember what time it was? Did you
clocked out came back home? Was this morning? Was this afternoon?
It was uh probably mid morning something like that. Now
who was the friend that you were communicating with? It
was uh, and I don't today, I don't know what
her name is. Y'all showed me a picture of her, mkay.
I think y'all showed me a picture of anyway of
her husband Don? Is this the Holseys? Tiffany Lsey and

(20:33):
Don Holsey? Yeah, I'm not sure if if if mister Holsey.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
Was done or not it.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Did you have anybody had called me? So there was
they was they uh that we were wanted back at
our house?

Speaker 3 (20:47):
Mkay. So I I came home, mkay? And then what happened?
Now I just sat there.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Did did any bar officers or the FBI or anybody
come back?

Speaker 3 (20:57):
It was a FBI, Yeah, mkay.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
You came in, took statements, we you know, walked through
the house and you know, wanted to go in the
backyard and you know, cause I had a shed back there,
he wanted to look in the shed and.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Okay, so he did look through the house and get
through the shed. Y. You probably don't remember who that was,
I'm sure no, okay? And did he was he just
asking you general questions about Kerstian and did you know
where have you seen there that kind of thing or
basically did you write out a statement for him or
did he know?

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Was he just had a.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Conversation that he brought him to a statement. But he
asked me if he'd come in. He wanted, you know,
ask me what I knew, which at that time really
wasn't anything.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
He wanted to He.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Said, they was going through the next canvass in the
neighborhood and yeah, you know, asking everybody.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
And yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Seventeen years ago, Tony, were you experimenting with any drugs?

Speaker 3 (21:54):
No? No, I drank beer. His drinking to drink beer.
But as far as drugs know, was Hurston every one of.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
The kids that you had seen or was there any
talk in the neighborhood about her being mistreated or abused
or in me?

Speaker 1 (22:14):
I said, I really I had no England that they
even existed until after that.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, I had never seen her anything, maybe watch or
twice and didn't think nothing about it, you know, just
another kid.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah, okay, speaking of seventeen years ago.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Who who always.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Living there at your house back then?

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Just okay? You lived alone?

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Do you recall were you dating anybody or you could
you have a girlfriend? And welland you were off and
on okay years for years? And you said that was Melody?

Speaker 3 (22:50):
How all right? And that's what's? Her? Daughter's name is Tristi.
He's got two daughters, Tristy and Robin.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Tristi Tri that's st and Rob wrote, did you say st.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
I my wife? Okay? Do you know what Tristie and
Robin's last names are?

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Tristie's was how at the time Robin was married, I
think at the time, so she.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
Was going with something different. Would Melody come stay the
night with you sometimes? Is that kind of thing? Okay?
That she didn't live there full.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
But she she's like I said, she passed away, h
about four or five years ago.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
That's not good.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
H As far as other people you hung out with
back then, do you have any good friends or anybody
that you associated with in the neighborhood or oh had
in the neighborhood. Okay, how about I I mean just generally, like,
who were your friends best you can recall back then.

(24:01):
I basically just people that I worked with, mkay up
there at the Capitol Road. No, no long lost power
from school or anything.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
You moved off from New Mexico and left them there.

Speaker 6 (24:15):
You and I'm not the kind of that goes to
a bar, you know. If I'm not drunk, I drink
at home. I mean, I know, I've met a lot
of people.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
But so you you would drink some, but didn't do
any didn't experience up with drugs, didn't do marijuana anything.
Did they drug tests back back in the days?

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yea at your work? Well, I uh, they always hobbled
out over on us, you know, but we never we
never had a got you aid? Okay, So it was
kind of the the threat. Yeah, there were some obvers say, well,
do you ever had any trouble with the all on there? Oh? Yeah,

(25:05):
before uh years ago, first degree burnery or something matter
with a dangerous weapon.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
I think I told your partier about really not been
as a dum kid. How long ago? Was that I was.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
I think fixed a turn eighteen. Uh so you were
just a.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Boy, yeah, hm, and all about it.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
My girlfriend were uh Walters Walter's slip home.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Oh okay up in Cotton County, YEP. And year my
job at the Job Corps. I Uh, they found me
a job there in voluntors at a decent mechanic. Is
that how you bought your training?

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Wanted the Uh?

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Actually I was training for auto mechanic, but they found
me a job at a est mechanic. And uh, the
counselor at Job Corps he made some deal with the
government that y at the government or the the employer
would pay half the way just they would pay, you know, for.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
H JG uh. Uh So it was a pretty good deal. Yeah,
it was.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
I'm surprised that DC. You didn't say that, because decent
mechanics make some money. Yeah. But it's hard work, I mean,
is it. It can be harder than weed eating all. Yeah,
some of the some of them parts weigh heads for uh.
One of the burst dolls was probably two hundred pounds
and you got you gotta tire about that high, and

(26:22):
you gotta get it up on that and get it
you know, on the blog and then you're torking stuff
at two hundred and forty foot pounds, you know, laying
on your back and it's it's hard. Right In the
last seventeen years, tell me have you have you uh
changed much? Is this how you were seventeen years ago?
Just a hard working man?

Speaker 7 (26:42):
Yeah, that's basically it. Okay, it changed older wise, but no,
I'm not the same person I was seventeen years ago.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
I've matured a little bit and life. I wish I
could say that life changes people.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
You know, as you get older, you start recognizing things
that you that you could handle differently than what you
If you had it to do over again, you'd.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Change, you know, I can. That's something we can't never
change it.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
No, you can't change what happened, but sometimes you can
make things better. I remember a few years ago I
went to my high school reunion and I've seen a
kid that honestly, I just threw him into the death
I made him, and I was able.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
To find him and make amends.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
I'll make amends and apologize and tell him how, you know.
But I was immature at the time and asked for
his forgiveness, and you know, I think that by the
end he actually remembered some of the things I'd done
and we talked about it, and I felt a lot better.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
And I think he felt better at the end.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
I know I did when he said he gave me
some absolutions and forgiveness for what. Yeah, I know you
were just you weren't very mature back then. And you
know I'm just good for the old sofa spect it
is to get it out. And I'll tell you about
the weight. And I don't know why God had put
on me a burden of of guilt. Uh, I want,

(28:16):
I want to use the word guilt. But I really
felt like, Uh, after I did that, I had a
a new outlook and but I.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Wasn't I picked on in But I also you know,
other kids sadus. But and it helped me deal with
my tormentors and forgiving them and uh realizing cause I
came from a poor family. How it was a white trailer,
white trash lived in a trailer park. You know, you

(28:44):
know what I'm saying. Yeah, I didn't have the knife
clothes and I had two pairs of blue jeans and
PF flyers, you remember PA flyers.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
If I was really lucky I got.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
From but poolsen of shoes or jeans. Now PF flyers
were black and white tennis shoes. They there were the
first ones that you ran, that you could run really fast.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
When when I lived and.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Moved to California, buying probably was whenever it grow it up.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
I had crooked feet, right, uh jail with the well
fixed up with couple boots. Right.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
So when I moved to uh Gelado, California, I was
the old kid in high school had a couple of
boots I did.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Uh it wasn't We all had sandals and tanis, shoot
ten issues and all that.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
But uh, you know I I I was very I
felt very fortunate to be able to that he was at
this reunion and you know, we were a small class.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
There was only about fifty of us, so we all
knew each other. And you know he was dirt or
like me, and which made it even worse. You know,
I should have been picking on the bridge groot, on
the rich kid, but I didn't remember.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Point being that, Uh, I really felt a lot better
about it. And even now after I mean that he
that was my twenty fifth high school ref you know
reuni that I was able to do that he still
picks on me though, so they really hadn't changed his Weslee.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
He's as good.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Let's see he uh like he asked worth. Next week,
he's gone, I'm fishing. But even before he is gone fishing,
do you get to go fishing?

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Before we Yeah, don't don't. That's why radiation because he like,
that's when.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
He's gone, I do it not it's my therapy, It's
all right.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
I actually it is therapy. It's very good therapy. It is.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
It's I'm like you, I've worked.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
I mean, that's all I ever known is work. But
now my wife doesn't.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Understand that working is therapy too, especially well I've always
I've always suffered from depression by.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Young kid, so and that always seems.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Like working, I guess gets your mind off of whatever
it is you're thinking about or you know whatever.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
So that's all I do is work.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
He gets a sense of accomplishment too. That's one thing
we really especially when it's your your folks. Don't you
that he'd work the ship you'll never remember for he
never be ans and blah blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah,
I know.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Showed you then h then I don't that how you
grew up and tell an enviartment like that, That's that's
a shame. I remember my dad he never I wrestled
and went to State and dad never saw me wrestle,
you know. And I asked him about it one day
and because they bothered me a year for years, and
he goes, well, I never discourage you from doing.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
Now get you and he goes, and I he goes.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
My dad would say down there on foreign Paul, he
was a rough man, you know.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
He would prowd beat those boys. So Dad is progressed too.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
He's better than his father, hopefully, I'm better than my
father was a star as encouraging.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah, but that's that telling you that he didn't discourage you.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, cause don't I Paul Paul as you ain't never
would You ain't gonna be.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Worth the day. I all go, I don't. That's wrong.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Then there's ane that Yeah, and that affects you.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, I mean, that's stays with you for a lie.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
I've I'm always on my boy, cause my grandson's the
greatest thing that walks the place of the earth, and
I'm always on him.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Hey, you're too hard on that boy. You're too hard
on that boy. You're too hard on him. And so
hopefully he he's a better father than I am. He
was he is so but uh, I was very fortunate
to uh get to get some things off my chest
over the years and as I get older, I uh,

(32:31):
you know, my dad has even talked to me about things.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
That he has wished he had three times, you know.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, I beg everybody.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Hase my own's well the only thing that would really
and that's pet part. I would getting completely off the deal.
But when I as Welchers were another trouble with Walters,
I was growing out with an angel. I mean it's
a good woman. Huh.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
My biggest mistake, Yeah, I thought a bit big? Did
you last? Every time I can really start out.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
A Rochester as know as you camper well job, that's
basically what it would have happened.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
You know. He was bigging on her, and I had
like a dumb kids had to go do something about it.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
You know, yeah, not necessarily a dumb kids.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Sometimes man gotta deal.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Well, now you know there's other ways that does. Uh.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
But and of course I've been drinking, right, that's not
the best uh decision making across it conduce it your
great decision making and be lady. I'd tell him my
partner as he was driving to out, uh your work,
that uh.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Uh it's sixteen years old, and we'd catch school and
back then that's where we we went drinking dirty bird everybody.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
And you know, Joe, we are too h now that
I puts.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
My Mustang in the dead ship out there and uh suh,
and I try and run out on them.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
I probably found uh two hundred gold rings and something
out there. Wow.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Wow, did they wash up on the bank with fire
and age? Do you think they get lost there?

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Well, they get lost and then they get covered up,
you know, cause of the wave action, and then the
wave action on covers it again.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
And then you have to be at the right time,
at the right place. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
So every time, you know, after winds blowing, you know,
I check what's wrong cause I I hate drives in
the water. Yeah, that's another one of my pet peeps. Yeah,
stepping on that. Yeah. Well, first first month I was there,
I was out at Turkey piss picking up trash and
people work. Yeah, from out of state. Kid goes in

(34:42):
the water for it's the first thing he does. Steps
from the DEMI versty hook m and after that, I now,
so every day, every day I'd go out there and
I'd have a couple of five gull buckets and I'd
fill them suppers up.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Okay, you know i'd do that enough, you know i'd
get it off. But you don't. Yeah, you you're surprised.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
You get off there.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Didn't have that spired us last day, get swim like
nothing ever? You know he never did that nothing. Yeah, yeah, Hey.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
To get back to what we're here about, I'm not
I mean, you've been living there all these years since
Kirsten went missing. I I'm curious about your your thoughts
on what.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Happened, who might be involved that kind of thing. I
don't know tell the truth. Like I said, I didn't
know 'em.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
But the one thing that's always bothered me that she
left thenong she went to Jones, I guess with her
dad or something like that. I you Donda got me
off out of my house. I mean, yeah, I'm not
one if she comes back or you know, when if
somebody makes a car or you know, something like that.
I there was no way I'd left that house. And

(35:54):
that's the only thing that bothers me.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, she felt like you shouldn't have left to Yeah. Yeah,
did you ever at any point over these years or
or back when it occurred, have any knowledge of what
happened under and the who was involved?

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Were you and anyway involved?

Speaker 2 (36:14):
So you're not responsible for a person's disappearance. Didn't play
any part in that, like.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
I said, didn't know 'em, didn't have Like I said,
I was just probably you know, seeing my deceiver boots.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
Twice better with the kids. But other than that, I didn't.
I didn't know.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
We just out of curiosity. What do you think the
motivation was of whoever did this?

Speaker 3 (36:37):
I mean, why would this have happened? Well, Dad, I
could have told you.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
But after over the years, you know, and here in
three rumors and this and that and the other, and
did always boy young as drugs? You know, I've heard
that she was on meth and cocaine and all the
other dog's bop was the same thing. You know, she said, yeah,
she's been over there, you know, that night and they

(37:02):
got lit up. So apparently she did get lit up
because you know, if somebody did come in M I
mean when you heard it, M I don't know.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
So if I was old and she left cursed him
home along an you think or I don't know, perj.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
I'm sure she did it, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Like I said, I didn't know, and I really didn't
pay much offense to the to the dog and his wife.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
It's just uh I every day then I'm I'm I'm
pretty syd I cat all of this in me.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Should anybody down the street might straighted this cady corner
the little white house candy corn for me, okay. And
they had two or three kids, and I come home
one day. Uh we was worrying myself. I did start that,
and I was started at you know, contenty five children
got me a family pocket chicken. I would go to
go down and the kids went around, walked up and

(37:52):
was just the one who were eyeballs the you know
when they hadn't ate nothing. I mean they were really
if you up, if you had.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
To say them get too, cause I we they skinny.
So I got me a piece of chicken. I was
chill on it and they just get some chicken. Can't anything?
He said, ah, do you know this? Yeah, but I
just gave him a little better play.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah that's good cause I'm I'm not it's not that
it's something everybody do, cause.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
He got kids that are you know.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, and I know he was a welder by trade,
but he you know, talking to him a time or two,
you know, Dames weren't going right for him and you
know he didn't have money and all that.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
So yeah, I did. I know the problem. You know,
what we were talking about was a well.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
From looking back over the history, I I understood that uh,
Shannon's brother I guess stayed with you. Yeah, a share
of time, Aaron. Aaron tell us about that.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
How did that happen? And he, Hey, he was in
the neighborhood. You know, he's like Paion apparently letting prove
you know, his niece. So I'm out there one day
and he starts and he talk you know anything, blah
blah blah. You know, we just got the docking and
you know he's living in the day, you know, under

(39:13):
breadge and dude. You know, I found out already that
he'd that night that he'd been knocked up m you know,
so he wasn't a suspect of month. But so yeah,
I opened my house to you know, if you ain't
got no because I did that for anybody, you know, Uh,
it's safe to say, but that's the kind of guy
I am.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
So he needed a place to say, there's a couch
and as you can crash here for a couple of days.
And he didn't try to do what you guy to
do to you know.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Right, figure out what upened to your niece.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
But I mean to me, that's like, y'all that's serious.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Sure, absolutely, that's a hors How long after person went
missing did this happen? Was like the same week? Was yeah,
probably in the same week, in the.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Same week ago. And then I can't I can't verify
that to the mark, I said, that's that's been a while.
Oh yeah, but yeah, he was probably not in the
same week. How long did there stay there with you? Uh,
just a couple of days and then you know he'd
go off and then he'd come back, and then I'll
wound up having to just tell me you couldn't come
back cause I he was on a lift. It then

(40:13):
at the time they do it, and.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
I ain't think anybody to say, you you you've heard
that Shannon was using drugs too.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
I mean, I don't go for four or five, but
that's what I heard an an it. I'll just say this,
if you ever partied with them, if you knew they
were doing drugs or witnessed it, just just tell us
that I don't know, we're not you know, I don't.
I don't, Like I said, there's and y'all know you
got people that do drugs. You got people who drink,
and you don't do drinking. You don't, you don't do

(40:43):
I drink, ye, But now I never party with him,
and I never party with darn and his wife. Kay,
Now did you know Aaron it all before? So you
never met him, never talked to him before?

Speaker 2 (40:57):
You know, did he ever can bide in you anything
about the case or anything he couldn't clear her sister?

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Those words will always you know, I can't do it
as the way he said it, I can't clear my sister.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
So he was suspicious of of sham or did he
ever give you any any real factual information that would
be beneficial to the case.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Now, I'm as like I said, I'm hearing my own
pretty well.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
If I had any information, yeah, I'd give it to you,
cause that'd be the same thing if something were gonna
happen to my daughter.

Speaker 8 (41:36):
My god, yeah, m yeah, I don't know why she
does it. I mean, if she's anything, don't bless her soul.
I don't know she does it, cause I was just
thinking about it. What would I do my daughter come
up missing? Yeah, and she's my work, that's all I got.
My own lady can go to help. But my kid,
that's none.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah. Yeah, I agree that he has money.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
Day because I was there in Midwest too.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
It's hard to imagine. We've talked a lot about kind
of the background. I want to kind of talk to
you about some new information developed in this case.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
As you know, Tector Miller got some buckle swaps from
you a couple of months back.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Or whatever it was.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
There was a reason for that, okay, And we collected
DNA samples from lots of people, but we had submitted
we submitted some evidence from the case and.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Got the dnahad. Okay.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
The reason those buckle swaps were in collected was we
were trying to find the person responsible.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
We we talked about had you ever been in the backyard,
have you ever been in the house all those things?
And you said you hadn't, not.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
While they were there to do.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Okay, Well, I don't I don't believe you. Ooh, I
don't think you're telling the whole truth.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
Mkay. Your DNA.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Is in the backyard the morning that she was discovered missing, mkay,
and on the window and on the pennies she'd been
wearing the night before that were recovered in the backyard.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
So no, not me, cause I was out.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
No, m.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, that that's the truth. God, I find that thoroughfares.
But no, cause I I don't know. I didn't know,
and maybe you didn't know on Tony that we and
I didn't have no business over there at all. That
may be also, well, we need to talk about is
what you were doing in that backyard that night and

(43:55):
what happened. We need to get to the truth of
I had no idea what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Were you there trying to help Kirsten?

Speaker 3 (44:02):
No, Like I said, I didn't know anything about them.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
People that are nothing, nothing, never matter, never said I'd
buy nothing.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Well, here's the here's our problem with that is how'd
your DNA get there?

Speaker 3 (44:18):
The don't know? I mean, is.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
It is this something that's gone on?

Speaker 1 (44:28):
Tell me that, uh is this one of those things
from seventeen years ago that uh split second decision has
haunted you for seventeen years. I don't know what you're jumping.
Are either to help her?

Speaker 3 (44:44):
No? But that's what I don't I had nothing to
do with the people. Nothing. I didn't know at all.
So how did your DNA? I had no idea there.
I have no idea. Tell you your blood and is
on her window?

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Your blood is on Kirsten's panties.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
I don't see all that could happen.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Well, it happens when you're injured in some way and
your blood it's transferred to her window and those pantings.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
And here's just left behind.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
I think you were there to help.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
No, I was at their period. I had your blood
get there.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Tell me you were there. This This is scientific evidence.
It's not a debate. It's not anything that can be argued.
And I and here's the point where I really feel
you're a good guy. I mean, you worked twenty nine
years at a hard job. You came up ruh like
I did, came up for yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
But then decide for it. I had nothing to do
with any of this.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
But here's the thing. I don't think you're that was
your intention. You gonna have to explain this.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
If I don't we there, now I do it?

Speaker 1 (45:59):
If either there.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Is you were there because you heard her yelling for
help from your backyard and you go over there to
see cause you knew that her mother was a meth
head and that she is probably home alone, and you
went over there to help, you know, and you went
to the backyard to a word the conflict with the mother,
and you wasually just gonna take care of this little
girl because just.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Like you growing up, you didn't want her being treated
that way.

Speaker 9 (46:29):
That.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yes, that's how understandable things become.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
You know, I could understand that, but I don't. I
don't understand it. They give you an idea.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
That may well, how exactly how was a your blood?

Speaker 10 (46:40):
No, I have no idea. Well, I'm I wasn't there
at all. We we weren't there either. All we have
is this the evidence that was collected. Oh I didn't
collect it.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
It was collected seventeen years ago, Tony. But it's there,
and we have to deal with this. And you're saying
you were never there. No, there's no reason ever should
be there. No, it's not helping your cause. What's gonna
help your cause is to explain to us how it's there.

(47:16):
I because the phoogram a true because the fact that
it's there is the girl in the room. Now, there's
a reasonable explanation as for why you were there, and
you were there to help Cherson. Know you were there
for you had a relationship with its Shannon.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
No never k you were you're.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
There the peeping calm or something of this nature. Tho,
then those are ex explainable to God.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
I understand by but I will never there.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Never there never there can't give us any reason why
your blood would be there.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
No, tell me.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
The worst thing you can do for yourself right now
in this position is lie and not be truthful.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
I'm being truthful, dude. I don't know why I don't.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
I came explained that why that y'all are finding this well,
your blood is in that backyard, the bling that she's
discovered missing. Okay, this is your chance, Tony, alright, understand
that I would be playing and explained what happened.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Maybe you didn't mean though.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
For whatever has the night happened, there were you were there?

Speaker 1 (48:28):
You were there was here not at my hand? Was
that a ta that period when you were going through
a depression, and drinking and getting depressed and you don't
remember until later, but just haven't occurred.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
I don't even think I was drinking that way. Pay
if the drop, I might have been, but I don't
think so. But I was in bed as I started. Sure,
I don't Fleetwall just sitting.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
The deal where you got drunk the night before and
and I actually went through with some merges you had.
Know whether you're attracted to the little.

Speaker 4 (49:02):
Girls or whatever your I have never been attracted to
the little girl for little boys.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Well, once again, how is your blood there?

Speaker 3 (49:13):
I don't know? Do you not?

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Do you not believe me when I tell you that
we have your DNA?

Speaker 3 (49:18):
But I don't.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
You don't believe me, Kay, And I I can. I
can show you that. I'm sure you got just be
I asked me.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
Would that?

Speaker 1 (49:26):
But I don't. I don't know how that could happen. Yeah, Well,
though I wasn't there, there's more to this story telling me.
That's what we're hoping to get from you today. And
this is your opportunity to be truthful and to take responsibility.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
For whatever happened. Yeah, if I was responsible, that would
be different. Kay.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Well, with that said, were you there and somebody else
was there and actually took her.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
And maybe you not your name? I there. I'm not
into little girls and I'm not a window people.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Kay, well, is there another explanation for why you were
in that backyard that night?

Speaker 1 (50:03):
I wasn't in that backyard.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
I don't know. I my blood could have been there
or what I know. I went to bed. I know
when the dog woked me up. I didn't go out
my back door.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
I let dog in and I went back to bed.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Well, tell me, I I don't know how to impress upon.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
You any way?

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Then did you that the pisical evidence there that tell
me where really that? And we have to get to
a point where we can explain that.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
I understand that. Uh help me do that. I wish
I could. I don't know. I don't know what you're
talking about, Okay, I don't say.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Well, Twinny, I think that, uh, you've been living with us.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
A long time with what with what happened, and I
think that it's.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
It's one of those things, Tony, where you're scared, and
but I think it's there's some verses that says, you know,
at some point everything is known, and uh, I truly
believe that, and uh, one of these days that you're

(51:42):
gonna have to come and realize that.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
And I don't.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
I think that your best bet is simply tell the truth.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
I've been telling the truth.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Well, unfortunately what you're telling me doesn't align with any
of the physical evidence that we have. And unless there's
a huge conspiracy to the FBI and the OSBI and
our officers from seventeen years ago to frame you, we

(52:15):
have to explain this. And I really think you're f.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
You need to talk about it, because I think that's
the best thing for you to do, is simply tell
us the truth.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I think you're gonna feel better about it. You're going
to have a weight lifted off your shoulders. I have
no idea what you're talking about. I mean, go ahead,
you got somebody's boring, but I not mine.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
I was not there, mkay, Not that night, not the
night before work, not the night after. Did someone talk
to you into doing something going with 'em?

Speaker 3 (52:57):
No?

Speaker 2 (52:58):
I wouldn't do that. Somehow did How did we explain
your blood? I'd have no idea. Well, the blood's gonna

(53:21):
have to be explained to me. It's gonna have to
be Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm tryna.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Go in my head all how anything or but I
whenever she was over there, I didn't don't there, I
would say when William was there. Yeah, but and either
then I don't don't see how to cut myself on
at the window.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah, uh huh oh No, I wasn't there, brother, I
don't know either.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
M Okay, Well, I'm telling you that, uh, the physical
evidence is gonna have to be explained. I think that
you made a mistake, and I think you've lived with
us a long time, and I believe that your depression
issues and things and the way you were raised and

(54:22):
the abuse.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
That you tou as a child I never had that depressed.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Has has something to do with it. Really, day, this
is our usb ivers all the time. I kind of uh,
in no disrespect. I get the impression maybe you don't
believe me when so, I wanna just bring you the
copy very quick from LSBI, and we've higloted it here

(54:49):
for you. I just don't you understand that this isn't
this isn't a bluff. You see those odds, those odds.

(55:21):
I can just tell you that from my years of experience,
I've never seen at that level, which means this is
your DNA.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Mkay, this is your a lot of.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
Time, Kaptamer, there is that's Christian's paintings.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
That her Lam identified what she had on that night,
and that's where your blood was found as well as
on her window sill. So this isn't just UH and
and just the will know you also located some blood
on the fence picket and it's still out for testing.

(56:05):
But I suspect that there's a good chance I get
I'll come back to you. I can't explain it, and
that's that's why I want to give you an opportunity
to do is explain it, because it's scientific evidence. We
know for a fact that your blood and of course, Tony,
I don't have to tell you that. When these paintings

(56:27):
are identified as as UH Christians, then Mom says, yes,
she was wearing those.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
The night before.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
In the next morning at dawn, your blood is found
in at the back fence of the property. I mean,
if you're in my position as the detective, what does
I tell you.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
Don't be good for me?

Speaker 2 (56:52):
You know, I just want to plead with you to
be honest.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
I'd want to be honest. I want to be doings, August, I.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Don't you know, I mean, Tony, I think this has
gone on for so many years and has been unsolved,
as you go on up.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
For for a long long time.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
And I'm sure you've told people countless times I had
nothing to do with it.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
I don't know anything about it.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
That This isn't the time to keep saying the same
old routine because this didn't go on away. You get
what I'm saying, you know, I mean, this is scientific,
scientific evidence, Tony. That's your DNA, that's yourselves or your body.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Tell us, I mean, tell me what happened? How did
you get injuryed? Trying to figure it out myself? What what?
What all this is about? I mean, you were you
were in some injured.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
For your blood to be on her window and for
your blood to be in our panis.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
What I want to know from you.

Speaker 4 (57:58):
Was there's some kind of a dispute which he even occurd,
how he hadn't know dealings, what those people didn't know.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Was up in the boat. I believe that.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
I believe that, But I also believe that this is
your DNA on her window sill and your DNA on
her panties.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
In the backyard.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
I don't doubt that you didn't know 'em, that that
didn't take this away. This isn't going anywhere, and we've
got to get to the truth of the matter. I
mean for you to sit here and say, I've never
been in that backyard and I believed there it's alive.
I mean, that's not all truth. It's it's not the truth.

(58:41):
And I gotta believe, if I can speak frankly, you
seem like a good guy. And I know if I've
made a mistake like that, and we all make mistakes,
we're all sinners that I gotta believe this has been
bugging you for your entire life since it happened. If
if it doesn't, then you're a cold bloody killer telling me,

(59:03):
is that what you're telling me? I ain't never killed nobody, mkay.
So you're telling me what happened that morning or that
night hadn't been bothering you.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
All these years? That's not me. I don't was that was.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
That the alcohol or were you experimenting with something.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
I don't do drugs, and I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
I I came trying to pat them in my mind,
but but my blood, yeah, I was never around there,
didn't know their people, didn't have no devils with their people,
did a can.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
I say, people tell me this, this is I understand you. Okay,
I you can sit here and say that same cross
over and over. You and I both know that's not
the truth. No, it's through to the Alaska now, and
I don't understand this.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
The truth is what needs to come out, and you're
the only person that can do that. You're the only
person that can bring Chursion back and let her family
have a proper burial for her. You're the person that
can help me that you made a mistake, Tony. Okay,
you made a huge mistake. Do what right now, take

(01:00:20):
responsibility for what happened, and help us get curshion back.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
I can't help you don't know. I don't understand. You said.
That's not me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
And when and when somebody says that to me, what
it says is that I get me in my right mind,
I was under the influence.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
What a man if yours like I said, if I
had a beard, I might have to I went through bed.
I always go to bed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
I'm to be our guy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
The only reasons you're goosly is because I have to
have a treatment. I wake up with two and a
half hours, three hours, they pave it go I to sweep.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
By having up and bothered me ever going to breathe
it from.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
So your conscience hasn't been bothering you for all these years?

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
You know? Let me ask you this.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Your wife told us that every year on Christian's anniversary
that you're upset about it, that you go to the
phase of being depressed and upset about it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
And the reason that is it's all the news and yeah,
how do you feel about it? Well, yeah, I'm going
to be upset. I mean, it's a missing child. Good,
But I mean as far as me, oh what day
is this? You know it's not just a missing child.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Tell me it's a missing child with your blood on
her window self and you're blood on her pennies. So
should I affect you? Absolutely? And that tells me you're human.
That tells me that you have a heart and you
have a conscience. But you're not showing us sitting here
and that I am that you've never in there. I
don't know anything about it, that wouldn't me. That's not

(01:02:03):
the truth, Tony. This is the time I don't need
you just don't pass.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
But I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Do you need to think about that because I'm just
telling you, when all of this gets presented to the
judge and jury not understand, do you think anybody's gonna.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Believe the God you know, nobody's gonna believe you because
it's not the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Tony. If you want to carry it to your grave
and not do what's right, that's on you that you
need to think about what you're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Because right now he said, stay right, child's my damn
blood or meat. Because I was not there, and I
mean that night I was in my same work always
that the big Yeah, how do works? Does it? Well?

(01:03:16):
It's pretty clear, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
You know how big sex opinion is.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
No suspect? Huh? You know susteen too great? Yeah, it's
too big. I mean how you can lie people up
from why the arts?

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
All that? Tidn't now.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
You remember me, don't you? I mean, w I've been
working on this case for two years.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Here look at me real quick. I've been working on
this for two years. I've got a little girl and
about her age. Here's your age at the time, and
this case is all I think. This case has taken
over me, and I really mudge it. It's all I think.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
About, you know, And I told you earlier on you know,
all the cases I work as crimes against shilder cases.
So my whole life, I go home, I have kids,
I kind of work. I deal with kids, you know,
And you seem like like like you said in our past,
you know conversations we've had. All you do is you
care about kids. You take care of the neighborhood kids.

(01:04:34):
And you got a hurt fabulation. Yeah, and that that's
what I we're trying to figure out on me is
how is your your blood your DNA.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
Get on it? And you were there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
When I when I took your sample from you.

Speaker 9 (01:04:49):
Right, we had an ie no mail profile DNA on
her paintings.

Speaker 11 (01:04:56):
And on her window sill. You don't let them suspeat.
All I'm concerned about.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
Is where she at. Tell me I I'm sure where
she at. Help me find her.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
I mean, we got pictures of window sills and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
The window sill that day, you know when go right
down the line with all these pictures, you know, you
said all.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
I mean everything.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Of course, today it's a totally different bogg and there'll
be five hundred pictures of a window sill and I
it's all there. I mean you sau well the the print, Yeah,
if your kids prints there.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
I was about there the day before that day next day.
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Have you talked with the FBI since the last time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
You I spoke? No?

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
Okay, Well have you done for the uh? I?

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Have you taken a polygraph? Have you been to their office?

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
Tell me to tell me. I was talk to the
PRST was everywhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Mkay, But you never taken a polygraph?

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
A now like that?

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Then? What didn't we ask you about a polygraph when
I spoke with you last.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
I don't think we do know what the true? Do
you do? Okay? Oh that's right, you did take a polygraph?
About good?

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
But what what we need to figure this out?

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
Yeah you do.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
But you're you're my key.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
You're a little one that can help me. Tell me.
I want you to help you. If I could that
I would, cause it's more means I would. But we Yeah, Well,
I'm not gonna hear.

Speaker 9 (01:07:12):
I'm well beat you. I'm not gonna be mean or anything.
But I I I need the truth. I need to
I do I need the truth? Do I need to
find her? I need to find here, help me find her.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
I can't help you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Was there somebody else involved?

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
I can't help you on that either. I won't. I
don't want anybody or help myself. Take this group and

(01:07:57):
how explain the why I don't fall a cake. You
gotta let me see your art. You had a scar
in your art. What happened there? Uh? I was picking
up a toilet bowl with it cracked? What was that?
Last year?

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Hay had on the theory, I'm major David, I had,
I'm I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
I'm like pretty much sees guy's boss. The guys have
been out there kind of talking to me about the interview.
What do you say, Let's let's take a break for
just a minute. I don't want you getting upset at us.
We really are trying to get to the truth. But
I don't want you getting up set with us. He'd

(01:08:40):
take a drink of water. We'll just relax for a minute, okay,
and we'll just take a deep breath. Alright. I n
I know, I said, I's singer. Yeah, come on coming up,
plus you get up together, plus that. Ok. Anyway, Yes,
I said, Well, I'm not sure we don't have any

(01:09:05):
juveniles out here home on the stakes. Do you have
a lot of tea, a cat jive and all this

(01:09:26):
type out here. I'll i'll let I normally don't do it.
I'll let you smoke some gear. How long you don't
do that? Yeah you do?

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Say kay?

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
Yeah? Most some kids an there never get white. Now
go ahead, man, you're fine Christmas.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Well, normally don't let people do they don't you stray
those against not allowed anymore. Well, I know you're stressed,
so we're gont allow it. I'll smoke too today. There
have since I was club. I don't our cat our.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Can explained us.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
And the other thing that I don't take it right
now is yeah, I woulds being set out because we
over close this case. That's the day things coming in
my head right now? Service it okay, Well, I understand
what you're saying. I'm gonna be honest with you. When

(01:10:35):
this first stuff with the stuff first came out the DNA,
I I wan'ta to understand how it works because not
everybody does this. So it wouldn't be uncommon for you
not to know. Uh, the real person that doesn't do
place where it doesn't know the DNA that we got

(01:10:56):
off of these pins.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
That was taken all the way, uh when it happened, okay,
and it was put into a container where we can
keep it indefinitely. Alright. It's been there ever since the
FBI ticket when they were helping us, it was there. Okay.
We had what was called an unknown DNA sample. Well,

(01:11:22):
we knew that it was human DNA. We can tell that,
that's right. Oh yeah, thank when you h DNA, kay,
and we knew it was human DNA from the mail.
We can know that. What we don't know then you
got it back then, we didn't know the name attached

(01:11:44):
to it. We didn't know whose DNA that was. Okay.
When the FBI and Detective Miller went out and got
those swabs, kay got 'em. They got 'em from a
bunch of people. Alright, you be one of 'em. Then
it was tested against a sample that was taken off

(01:12:05):
the windows seal and off of the panties, which, by
the way, I don't know if they told you this
or not, but also has Kirsten's DNA on it because
little kids they get their little pp in their pants
and skid marks, so her DNA's on it, Your DNA's
on it. And it's also on the window sill. That

(01:12:28):
was all done way back when this all happened. It's
just now that the DNA results have come back. And
I don't know if they told you this. You seem
like intelligent men. So to help you comprehend when we're
talking about when we say we know this to be

(01:12:48):
a fat the number of sex tillion, what this is saying.
If you take a one and you put twenty one
zeros behind it, ya, it's it's yours. Any any body
in the world, any scientist, is gonna say that that

(01:13:09):
is your blood. Now, obviously, when you have the taste
like this, we're not gonna Michropotma. We're not gonna lagh
out everything that we know and everything we have, and
that's just not the way it works. It be counter productive.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
We're not gonna do it vers more than this, but
we're gonna try to get you to digest trying to digest.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
One thing at a time. Now, having said that, do
we know all the circumstances surrounding what happened that night?
We don't, only only God that the person who did
it and Christian probably know that. But I'm gonna tell

(01:13:56):
you this we do know that Kurt still is wearing
you know, is that night. We do know that your
blood's on there and her DNA is on there, and
that is just an absolute fact. Yeah, I understand that,
and I I haint of you know, just listening talking

(01:14:17):
to you, and you know, seventeen eighteen years now has passed.
I'm going on my twenty fifth year here. I worked
every face you could probably imagine, so it was detected.
Middle Like he was telling you, We're not brilliant, mean

(01:14:37):
by any stretch of imagination, but when it comes to
this stuff, we're we're pretty dawn smart. And this is
what gools down to you. This much time can pass,
and if something horrible happens in your life that you
don't want to remember, you can put it in a
little box and put it out here and try to

(01:15:00):
keep it away from you, and it happens. I've heard
put horrible things that have happened off and put it
in a little box out here and talk that it
goes away, and that pray it doesn't come out, because
I've seen some some terrible things I can imagine. And

(01:15:22):
that's what I think. And you know, what I think
may not matter to you. But it's fun and the heart.
This is what I think. I think that you're not
an evil person. I don't think you're an evil person.
I've heard about your work history, you know, I know
all that stuff. I know you're a dependable person. The

(01:15:43):
hard work com in. I think on this one night,
this one time, for whatever reason, with some leeming inside you,
you made a mistake with the fact is the fact
is there? Here, Here's what, Here's what. How we look
at it?

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
You know, I'm about to retire, and uh, you know
I I I know what he told you. He's gonna
get your daughters. Well we want We went over this
baby's at We went over where she grassed her. No,
I can't help you. I don't understand any of this.

(01:16:32):
Can I ask you something?

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
Sure? Why did Why did you tell your wife that
that the FBI had I given you a polygraph when
you passed?

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
She just told us that he said that. No, I
told her that job had given me a potoly gas.
But it's me part of something altogether different. For the
Trusty deal. I got two poto gaps that day. Okay,
So you think she is misunderstood. Probably I've told her

(01:17:09):
the beyond was in my house. They shut my house down,
garage shed hold up, well where where? And the only
time this comes up is what she asks about it.

(01:17:29):
And they choose the act anniversary because there's the new paper.
People are television, people are knocking on the door, and
you still live here, do you know? Blah blah blah,
and that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
They'll still lives around there. That's you lived there longest,
right of course, I know that there's no one that
still lives there, that's there back when you were there, well.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Tony after, we need your help.

Speaker 3 (01:18:08):
What happened that one gonna do my smooth three factors
a day.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
Were fortunately for me?

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
I I I if I could help you, I would
help you. Well, I don't like to say in this.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Situation, I don't I don't want it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:27):
There's thought there was only didn't for me at all.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
Yeah, And I I've done the research on you know,
what happened at when you was in Watchers and stuff
like that, and i've uh listened to part of the
interview uh here this morning.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
And is there a chance that maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
You'd like the out and did it that you went
over there and did something? You said, you said something
about it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
You don't think you sleep walk.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
The I just go out in scenarios, kay, I mean,
And that's got to be a sarcastic h Texas a
little book. A good point, I mean. And from what

(01:19:21):
we've read from the report, the Appener and Walters, that.

Speaker 3 (01:19:27):
Was a pretty horrific deal that happened, and it kind
of shows that it's somebody that can lose it that
I don't know, whatever kid that was drugs, and I
still fight for that that I'll never go away. Well,

(01:19:51):
w what it What it comes into is this. You know,
we've had a lot of people in this room and
interview a lot of people about stuff similar to that, unfortunately,
And there's two kinds of people we deal with. There's
the people that when we prevent, pre present the evidence
that we've got and they know they've been found out,

(01:20:15):
they stand up and take some type of responsibility and
move on or they deny it. And to me, that's
the folks that are really evil. And I just didn't
need to get the feeling that that was you. But
I guess I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the

(01:20:36):
first time. I don't I can't. I can't explain it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
They'll still sting, you know, think it Apralsville, y'all come
up with April for cause that's the I'll let us
of this sious, you know, for their sym where where
where do you think if if someone was to if
someone the person that did do this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:11):
Where would they take her number at? Or if they would,
shouldn't do it?

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
I mean, I'll watch all the cop shows and slub
like there or what I do was and there's there's
little too.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
So you you bring up cop shows so I'm sure
mombards like scruptions. Yeah, you've watched a lot of three
Unify stuff like that, so you know, and most of
the the classes and all the research and stuff I've
done with you know, missing children where they're easily located
at they're located, you know, where the suspect lives two

(01:21:50):
doors down, three doors down there in the same neighborhood,
you know. So, I mean you've hit the profile. You know,
you're pass history shows that you know. But that's a
little struck against me now. But like I said, even
change telling people change. He's talking about your home life,

(01:22:12):
how you grew up.

Speaker 12 (01:22:13):
I grew up a single moment, raised nine kids by herself,
and I'm about the only one out I'm about the
only one out of my family that that's graduated school,
that has a successful job.

Speaker 11 (01:22:26):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
You know, people tell me you can't do that, you're
a piece of craft. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
I showed them that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
No, right, it's not about anything like that. I was
not such a member of molested or abused. I was hated,
but I felt good in this. You know. He taught
me some shit and that's helped me, you know, go
through my life. I know some stuff in little carpentry,

(01:22:54):
you know, mcharen as you know, I asked him to
to this day because.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
He hated me.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
M but.

Speaker 3 (01:23:03):
Jack of all trade that I didn't that I didn't
turn me into a monster. And I don't know I
hated Yeah, I I I don't think you're a monster.

Speaker 13 (01:23:13):
I think it's just one time something happened and it
went a little too far and something had that you know.
And actually, actually I'm at shock, is what I am.
Like I said, I am still thinking I'm going to say, well,
but this is just a a joke or not a joke,
but trying to give me to chaday something.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
Here, I I'll I'll hear to lie I'm not lying
to you that anything. Like I told you from the
get go.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
You know, my job was to investigate this case and
to go out and I guarantee it there were probably
thirty forty people that I went out.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
And I got swamps from, just like you doing that day. Hm.
You know it's up tell her what's sack M. Well,

(01:24:12):
you're toll you hear the last person. You're last person
to touch her. You're the last person that says my job,
that's her, that's our opinions. You're either absolute last person
that touch first. And that with other things that we

(01:24:36):
have and that we know and that we've learned, and
I mean, I'm gonna galance with you. This guy especially
has been pushing to allow uh him to be able
to talk to you and try to make some sense
about it and give you an opportunity to tell the truth.

(01:24:59):
I would s have. I was kind of against it,
to be honest with you, and because that you don't
get that kind of scientific evidence every day. That is
absolutely the most an astronomical thing that you could imagine.
It's about like every grain of sand on the whole
planet Earth, or the odds that it's not you that

(01:25:21):
were the last person that touched her panties, that was
the last person that went through that window. The odds
are they're not incomprehendible. So is that is that the
way it's gonna becoming? Is it gonna be? Is there

(01:25:42):
other day elwhere to till the day you die? You're
gonna uh we're talking about it? Is it's yeah, Well
I can tell you. I can tell you that, well,
that's fair enough. I'm not gonna argue with you, getting
to battle with you. I can tell you this everything

(01:26:08):
that we were gonna do here today, at everything that
you are gonna tell us, it's gonna go into a report.
It could either be a report saying that he may
ed up and had some remors, or it can be
that it's that evil person that we're afraid of. And
that's up to you. Let us told that boss totally

(01:26:29):
in your court. That it's gonna read one way or another,
And that's up to you because it goes from us
to the disc attorney and into the court. So can
they can read how you want. But give you this opportunity.
That was this gentleman's idea, and I gave him an

(01:26:51):
opportunity and I'll be able to go home and sleep
tight tonight knowing that I gave you that shot, and
if you don't want to take that shot, then that's fine.
I I can't force you to come.

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
All all we want is the truth and all all
we want idea is that to finally be able to
let another bury her child.

Speaker 3 (01:27:16):
That's what we want, properly, what we wanted to do,
what we wanted to be.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
All I know, I'm yeah, I didn't think I'm with you,
but as all I want, so I don't. I don't
know what else to tell you, Tony, I'm still in
a shop.

Speaker 3 (01:27:48):
I don't I know you're in shops at me because
because it's been seventeen years and you thought it was over.
That's why you're in shock. Not one of the shock
about it. You got mind blood. Yeah, how's that possible?

(01:28:12):
I I can't tell you that, but I can tell
you that it is absolute. It is absolute. There is
no maybe, there is no it's a possibility, it is
absolutely one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
Hey, uh, do you wanna take a break and give
him some time to think about what we talked about?

Speaker 3 (01:28:44):
Do you do you? I mean word, do you ever
your words to smoke.

Speaker 2 (01:28:49):
No that.

Speaker 3 (01:28:51):
Go in go any snooks from that, others go in
and talk one. Get your head together. When give me
more opportunity to to think about what I just said. Okay,

(01:30:33):
m alright, ask you again?

Speaker 2 (01:34:20):
Where's she at? Arkadio people? Okay, I want you to understand.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Too, and you probably already know this. You're not leaving
this room down. I understood note, and you understand that
it's far gonna be here quite a while, that you're
gonna spend in jail. Just because we don't have a
body doesn't mean that I'm gonna be able to charge
you with anything. Uh, I've got enough evidence against you.

Speaker 3 (01:34:50):
Don't go ahead, So the res there's no resks for
her in the you'll sign a judge and it's for
a murder and judges don't sign up unless you're off
the callus.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
And to be fair to you, Okay, to be fair
to you, and you're not going anywhere You're you're being
charged with murder.

Speaker 3 (01:35:11):
And here's the bill I want you to remember. And
right now we're interviewing every one of your family members.
Do you probably hear it? The next trend. We're already
at your house. We're gonna have back hose, ground penetrating somewhere,
cadaver dogs, the whole nine yards. Uh, we's left about

(01:35:35):
that yesterday? What's so funny about fat? Uh? Did y'all
war to ever go in our backyard? When I got
the dogs and cats? And that's every worst tap back
yards you want to have. It was left leftings up there.
We was watching something or two, the like great area
or animals.

Speaker 2 (01:35:53):
Well, well, what we're not gonna find and and this
is your opportunity, because I mean, yeah, gonna find the
first thing.

Speaker 3 (01:35:59):
That building about Jordan, Well your property? Any will? Where
do I find her? Alright, don't don't?

Speaker 1 (01:36:08):
Did you black out and he took her somewhere or dopted?

Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
I didn't get her? Who did?

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
Well, what we're gonna do is we're just gonna we're
gonna leave it with You're that person that has no remorse,
And that's the way the report's gonna read, because what
I'm seeing from you is you could tear less if
we ever find her, and you could tear less. Just
sigure it out for me, turn around for him, or

(01:36:37):
you can't find it back?

Speaker 3 (01:36:47):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:36:52):
You have a restaurant murder? Can that person have to

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