LAPD Detective Stephanie Lazarus Murder Suspect - Full Length Police Interrogation Video

LAPD Detective Stephanie Lazarus Murder Suspect - Full Length Police Interrogation Video

Full Length Police Interrogation Video

Sherri Rasmussen (February 7, 1957 – February 24, 1986) was an American woman found dead in February 1986 in an apartment she shared with her husband, John Ruetten, in Van Nuys, California. Rasmussen had been beaten and shot three times in a struggle. The Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) initially considered the case a botched burglary, and the crime remained unsolved.

Rasmussen's father believed that Stephanie Lazarus, an LAPD officer, was a prime suspect. Detectives who re-examined the cold case files in 2009 were eventually led to Lazarus, by then herself a detective. A DNA sample she unknowingly discarded was matched to one from a bite on Rasmussen's body that had remained in the files. Lazarus was convicted of the murder in 2012 and is serving a sentence of 27 years to life for first-degree murder at the California Institution for Women in Corona.

Lazarus appealed the conviction, claiming that the age of the case and the evidence denied her due process. She also alleged that the search warrant was improperly granted, her statements in an interview prior to her arrest were compelled, and that evidence supporting the original case theory should have been admitted at trial. In 2015, the guilty verdict was upheld by the California Court of Appeal.[5]

Some of the police files suggest that evidence that could have implicated Lazarus earlier in the investigation was later removed, perhaps by others in the LAPD. Rasmussen's parents unsuccessfully sued the department over this and other aspects of the investigation. Jennifer Francis, the criminalist who found key evidence from the bite mark, unsuccessfully sued the City of Los Angeles, claiming she was pressured by police to favor certain suspects in this and other high-profile cases and was retaliated against when she brought this to the LAPD's attention.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
H m hm.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
H.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm not sure, Stephan, I don't know if you know
my partner.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
Hi, sir, let's answer you guys.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
How's it going?

Speaker 1 (00:46):
No?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
No, right, uh well, let me see this is Uh.
I don't want to bring this up in your squadron.
Oh no, it's fine. I think we're good accorded to
this job.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
The we'll bring your good bring cibody in, right.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, we'll explain the whole. I didn't wanna talk about
this in the squadron because I don't know who people
are listening, and if we go to my side, everybody's
always wondering what everybody else. Okay, but uh, like we're
talking about being business that we've been assigned a case
that we've been looking at. Okay, it's a new case,
and revealing the case. There's some notes to see that.

(01:28):
As far as your name.

Speaker 5 (01:29):
Being mentioned, Oh, okay, do you know John Ruten John Bruton,
John Rutten Rutting. Oh yeah, I went to school with him,
you did, Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:39):
How long did you know him?

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Gosh, I went to school and let's see when did
you se la nineteen seventy eight. I started and you know,
met him at school at the dorms.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Were you guys friends close friends?

Speaker 4 (01:57):
Yeah, we're very close friends.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
I mean what's this all.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
About, Well, it's regarding it. It's a case we're working
on it and involves John and in there some of
the statements were we reviewed. Uh you know, there's notes
and stuff that he that he knew you and stuff.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
Oh yeah, I mean we good friends, lived in the
dorms for I lived in the dorms for two years.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
You guys lived in the same dorm yeah, okay, yeah,
dystra Okay. Were you guys just friends or anything else?

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Or yeah, we were, we were good friends.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah. Was there of any relationship or anything that developed
between you guys?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, I mean we dated.

Speaker 6 (02:31):
Uh uh huh you know.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
I mean, is it wh what's this all about?

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Well, it's relating to uh his wife.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Mkay.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Okay, did you know her?

Speaker 4 (02:43):
Not really? I mean I knew that he got married
years ago.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Uh huh did you ever meet her?

Speaker 1 (02:49):
God, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Do you know who she was or anything?

Speaker 4 (02:53):
Well? I I think, God, it's been a long time ago.
I may have matter.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Jeez. You know.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah. Well let me say, let me ask you. You said
you you dated John.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
How long did you guys date, I mean, what are
you guys? Is this something? I mean you said I
was going to interview somebody about art and how he
says Here's I.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Mean, definitely. Here's the situation is basically, we you know,
we knew that this when we saw this in the
in in this chrono, that maybe you know, there was
some relationship there. That's what the chrono seemed to indicate.
And we didn't want to come up to you at
your desk and ask those kinds of questions or do anything.
You know, how up there people can see what's going
on if you want to an interview room or people
are in there getting supplies. I mean, so we we

(03:43):
wanted to afford you some privacy, some confidentiality to talk
about this, cause we thought it might be you know
something you know, you're married to someone else obviously and
so forth, and that you may not want to, you know,
talk about these things in that setting where someone you know,
we don't want the rumor mill or gossip any that
kind of stuff. So we we did this just as
as a means to try and speak to you just
a confidential place where you you know, where your business

(04:04):
isn't out there for other people on your division. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
God, that's been a million years ago. I mean, you know,
what year is it now, two thousand and nine? I
mean I graduated in eighty two, eighty two. Yeah, you
know we dated. I dated other guys. I'm sure he
dated other girls.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Well, let me ask you roughly, how long would you
would you say you guys did it?

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Jeez, I couldn't even say. I mean, I started school
there in seventy eight. I started to steal it's in
nineteen seventy eight. I graduated in eighty two. I don't
even remember what year he graduated, if it was a
year or two before me. I think he was a
little bit older than I was. I mean, you know,

(04:54):
I can't remember if he was born. Let's say I'm
born in sixty nineteen sixty. I don't know if he
was born in fifty eight or fifty nine. I mean,
I you know, I mean I knew his parents, I
knew his sister. His brother went to Northridge. Um, you
know sister had spent the night at my house before.
Obviously I spent the night at his house before. He
probably spent the night at my house before, you know,

(05:18):
I f I yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
I well correct me if I'm wrong, Cause from what
you're telling me is you guys dated while you were
in college.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
Together, right, yeah? And probably after college. I I I
can't geez. I'm trying to think when I met my husband.
I met my husband in I meet Scott. Let's see,
I I was teaching Dare cause I met Scott when
I was teaching dere up in Oregon. But we had
long stopped, you know, dating before that.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
So you haven't talked to him for a long time.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
Oh, I I think I haven't talked to him in
a long time. I couldn't even tell you whim the
last time I talked to him. I met Scott. I'm
thinking in ninety two, maybe April of ninety two.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
It was Scott being your husband.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
Yeah, I'm trying to think I was teaching dare. Let's
see what year is this will be married. I got
married in nineteen ninety six. I think I met Scott
in ninety two prior to that. I couldn't tell you
how long I had talked, you know, talked to John
prior to that.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
But since you, since you met your husband, Scott, you
haven't talked to him.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
I mean he may have called me, uh once or
twice before we got married, right, you know, geez, I
lived I moved to see me in nineteen ninety four
because I lost my house in the earthquake.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
Quite honestly, I probably keep in contact with a few
people from the dorms. We all we all lived on
the tenth floor, and there's about three or four people
I keep in contact with. There's probably like six or
eight of us that were all really close. Oh geez, Diana,

(07:07):
basta m the people I still keep I I haven't
been in contact with her in a long time. I mean,
wh what you know, what's uh uh? What's I mean,
what's this all about?

Speaker 2 (07:19):
I mean, was I asking what en did the relationship
between you and John?

Speaker 4 (07:25):
You know, I don't It was kind of a weird relationship.
I mean, we we we dated. I can't say that
he was my boyfriend. I don't know that he would
can consider me his girlfriend. We just we dated, We
did things. I played sports in college. He played basketball,
His brother played basketball. I I we just you know,

(07:46):
it just didn't work out. I mean, I don't know
what to tell you. It was like I went out
with the other guys saw other guys and won on
lots of vacations.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
You know, and and once you guys that were you
guys still friends or kind of you know? I mean
it friendly, not friendly?

Speaker 4 (08:06):
No, I don't think it was not friendly. I mean
we were friendly.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
I know that we went to Hawaii at one point.
Another friend of mine who's actually dying right now, uh,
was went to Hawaii with us at some point.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
I remember roughly when that was.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
Geez, let me think, hm, I'd have to check my
pictures or i'd I'd say, I'd ask Greig. But my
friend Greg is like dying of liver cancer right now. Yeah,
I mean, I you know, and you were saying that
it's two thousand and nine.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Now, had you ever met his wife?

Speaker 4 (08:48):
I may have.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Do you know, do you remember her name or anything,
or or what she did for a living, her where she.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
Worked or her well, I think she I'm gonna say that.
I think she was a nurse. And I can't even
remember how he said he met her. I mean, I yeah,
I mean it's been so long ago.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, let me ask you. Did you go to their wedding?
You know?

Speaker 6 (09:17):
No?

Speaker 4 (09:18):
I didn't go to their wedding. No, I don't did
not go to their wedding. I couldn't even tell you
what year he got married. I mean, you know, it's
it's been a million years ago.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Do you remember if you ever talked to her? Cause
it seems like a lot of you who were at
the school at UCLA, you guys kind of were friends
during and after school. So I don't know if you
guys still associated afterwards when once he was married or
anything with him.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah, no, I don't think so. I mean I would say,
you know, the people that were on the dorm floor,
we'd have we'd get togethers. There's probably like four or five.
I don't think he ever came. Yeah, I don't think no,
it was there was like it was mostly girls. You know,

(10:03):
a girl named Smita Diane. There's another, there's two Diane's,
but the one Dane. I don't think she ever came.
I kind of lost contact with her. We were good
friends on the floor. Yeah, I mean, I don't you
know again, I w I mean what you know, I
I don't understand why you're talking about some guy dated
a million years ago.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Well, do you know what happened to his wife? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (10:26):
I know she got killed.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
What did she What did you hear about that?

Speaker 4 (10:31):
I I saw a poster at work. I'm sure I
spoke to him about it. I think I spoke to
another friend of his about it.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
And how did how did you first learn about that?

Speaker 4 (10:45):
Jeez, someone could have called me. I could have heard
it at work. I think at one point there may
have been a flyer or something, I know, a good
friend of his.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Are you on the job back then when that happened?

Speaker 4 (10:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:59):
I think so.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
Yeah, I'm sure I was on the job. That's why
I would have heard about it with a flyer. He
had a good friend, Mike, Mike Oldrick, Mike mm anyways,
a fruh f a g. He may have lived in
the dorms. I don't remember if that's how I met him.
I I may have talked to him. I mean, you know,

(11:21):
I don't remember how I heard. I mean, I don't
even remember what year it was.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
And you think, y you thought you said you thought
his wife was a nurse. Do you have any idea
where she was working at the time or did you
ever mention that to you? Was it a hospital or
a doctor's office.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
I'm sure he must have mentioned it. Now now that
you're bringing that up. I think she worked at a
hospital somewhere, and yeah, I may have met her at
a hospital. I may have talked to her once or twice.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
At more, you know, being that you were kind of
you used to see, uh John, you know, was it
everything okay between you guys? I mean, there wasn't never
anything uncomfortable or anything between.

Speaker 4 (11:59):
You and her, you know, I don't know. I mean,
it's kind it's been so many years, I mean uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
I mean.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
I can't even I can't even remember if we had
a conversation. I mean we may have. I may have.
I may have seen her and his apart. You know, jeez,
how many years ago was that. I don't even know
what year she, you know, got killed.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Where was his apartment on Roscoe? Okay?

Speaker 4 (12:28):
Yeah, Roscoe and Easter or west of Dessot, either east
or west of DeSoto.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Do you know where he moved after? Did he move
after he got married or do you know?

Speaker 4 (12:40):
Or I'm sure he did.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Did you know where he was living or.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
Somewhere in the valley.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Did you ever visit him and his wife?

Speaker 4 (12:54):
No?

Speaker 2 (12:55):
No, never went out to you know, get together dinners.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
I know, no, like I said, his sister used to
come over. His sister had come to my place. I
knew I knew his brother because his brother played basketball
at Northridge. In fact, I was just coming across some
pictures that I had just scanned, scanned from. I take
a lot of photos, like ten thousand, and I just

(13:22):
did a service where I scanned everything. I mean, i'd
seen some pictures of his brother playing gay just put.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Them on your computer so you could have them accessible
and with them.

Speaker 4 (13:30):
Well, my partner is a big photo thing, and he
had a deal to scan, so I spent a ton
of time just scanning photos. I mean I paid a
company to do it. So I've got photos of I mean,
his brother, his sister, you know.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Ten thousand pictures. Oh yeah, how long did that take them?

Speaker 4 (13:49):
Months?

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Now what do they do? They put that on a
I'm just curious myself. They get all on one DVD.
They don't need like a hard drive or anything.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Oh no, there's like I think eleven DVDs. Yeah, I
haven't even I don't even have to.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Tell it's a series of DVDs that they put them on.
Oh yeah, okay, I mean I got familiar with computer stuff,
so that's why I was asking.

Speaker 4 (14:09):
It's like eleven DVD's, okay, so you know I haven't
had a chance to go through. You could go through
and pick which ones you don't want. I don't have
time to do that, you know. So, so you said,
did I you know, I don't think we ever socialized.
You know, he'd still call me. I can't say that.

(14:29):
I would mean if he's married, I don't know that
I would have called him. I mean maybe who knows,
you know, I don't know. It's been a million years ago.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
How long was John Mary before his wife died?

Speaker 1 (14:38):
I couldn't.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
I have no idea. I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
And uh, after his wife died, did you talk to
him again or anything?

Speaker 4 (14:48):
Yeah, I mean I did talk to him. I talked
to him, probably his parents, probably some other friends. You know,
I'm sure I talked to him.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, but you don't. You don't You're not sure where
he moved to after he got married, No idea. I've
never went over to visit him, or I don't think.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
I mean, I don't think so, I mean, I don't know.
I don't. I mean, I don't think I did. I mean,
I know he lived on Roscoe for a long, long time.
I mean I may know. I mean he may have
told me where they lived somewhere in the valley. I

(15:29):
mean he may have said, I've lived over such and such,
but I couldn't tell you specifically where, But.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
You don't remember specifically ever going over to visit him
or visit them, and wherever he moved when he left Roscoe.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
I honestly, I don't know. I don't think so, but
you know, I don't want to say no, I don't
think so. And then he says, always she came over
for something, drop something off.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
You know, I don't know. So if you did go
over there just be like a quick thing, like like
you're saying, drop something off or maybe, but.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
You don't remember as far as I go in there
to have dinner or like a social anything at the
house partying.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
Well, if you guys know something, I I just I
can't r. I don't know. I don't think so. I mean, but.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
After a John's wife died and you said you may
have been talking to him, did uh your relationship start
up again?

Speaker 4 (16:24):
I would say no.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Again.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
Can you give me a year? I mean, this is
like two thousand and nine.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
She died in nineteen eighty six. Yeah, I think six
nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
Okay, Like I said, I'm I'm faintly remembering that I
went to Hawaii with my friend Greg, Greg and I
got certified for scuba diving. And I'm thinking that John
met us there, meaning Greg and I. That could have

(16:57):
been I got certified toward the end of eighty eight
or I mean y at eighty eight eighty nine, cause
I got recertified again and it had been like over
ten ten years, so I got recertified. My husband, I

(17:17):
got recertified and I'm pretty sure that John met us there.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Again.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
I'd have to tell you what year was. I'd have
to look at my pictures, you know. And other than that,
I can't even say. He may have called me, you know,
at my home. I may have called him. I don't
think he got together with our group. I don't think

(17:46):
after his wife's desk, uh, even before I don't you know,
uh we went to weddings together, you know, did you.
I've got pictures. I, Like I said, I couldn't tell
you years. It's been a million years.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Ago after he after he got married or whatever. Were
you dating anybody in particular?

Speaker 4 (18:07):
And that was what year nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
You said, I think he got married in around eighty
five eighty six something like that. Were you seeing anyone
seriously or God?

Speaker 4 (18:18):
I couldn't say. Jeez, I'm trying to think. I mean,
you know, I dated a fireman what was his name,
Mike Aren't and I'm trying to think he was lafd.
Trying to think when I went I probably met Mike.

(18:38):
I went to Devonshire. Let's say I left Hollywood in
eighty I worked Hollywood eighty four to eighty five, I think,
and then I went to Devonshire and that's when I
met Mike and some other firemen and what.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
At the station next door because I used to work Hollywood.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
No, No, it was when I worked Devonshire I met Mike. Okay,
And I'm trying to think I went to Devonshire in
eighty five, and I'm thinking that I would have met
him probably sometime shortly after I went to Devonshire because
I met him and his I actually met his buddies
at a fire and then Mike and I dated, you know,

(19:25):
just really kind of casually, and we remained very I mean,
we reained good friends.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
You're still in touch with him.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Unfortunately he passed away. Oh really, he died in he
had a car crash. He did race cars and he
went heading into a wall. I couldn't tell you what
year that was, but he passed away. It was in
a comb when they pulled the blood, it seems like anyway,

(19:57):
So you know, I couldn't even tell you what year.
I'm thinking I went to Devonshire in eighty five, and
I know I met the guys cause I it was
kind of a funny incident of how I met them,
and that's how I remember. It was sometime probably eighty five, right,
you know, if you specifically, I don't even know if
they remember. The other two were now married to somebody else,

(20:17):
cause I kind of all three.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
I mean, did you kind of socialize like when you
were out with Mike? Did those guys come out with
you too? Was it kind of like did you do
stuff with his friends?

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Or well? There were three. There was two firemen, Eric
and Gary. I met them first. Then they introduced me
to Mike. So that's how I met Mike, and Mike
dated Mike, and I dated so and and not. I
wouldn't even say. I couldn't even tell you for how long?
Because then it say we decided, you know, it wasn't
working out and we'd be better friends. And you know,

(20:49):
he introduced me, I think, to some other guy on
that who now is on lapd H, Randy Cordobas. He's
a detective. He's got a twin brother who's on the
fire department. That's how I met Randy because he had
a twin brother, aga identical twin on the fire department.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Okay, and you would had.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
I dated him? Uh when I couldn't tell you it
was before he came on the job.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Oh, before Randy came on the job. Yeah, oh okay,
and that was.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
I I'm tr god, I'm trying to remember if Mike
Mike may have I'm trying to remember Mike may have
dated a girl that he dated. Wow, that sounds too weird.
Randy may have dated a gal that Mike was dating,

(21:48):
and that and then Mike Randy broke up with that gal.
I couldn't even tell you of the gal's name, if
I'm even thinking of the story, right, And then I
started dating Randy. Yeah, I you know, so again. I
mean not like I was a huge fluozy or.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Anything, but you know, I mean a lot of times, right,
at least from my female partners that I've had. You know,
it's hard dating guys that aren't involved in kind of
our circle, right, because some a lot some guys are
intimidated by you know.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
W Yeah, Randy was like an engineer at the time.
He was like a some kind of an engineer on
a rig, an engineer or.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
A professional engineer. Yeah, and then I think.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
He lost a job and then came on on the department.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
I see.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
So getting back to some stuff as far as you
recall after John's wife, did you start a relationship again
with with John or dating casually or anything like that?

Speaker 4 (22:47):
Like I said, he met Greg and I and Hawaii.

Speaker 7 (22:51):
Okay, that was something you guys kind of planned together,
like go as a group, or he ran into him
or no, I h I think that obviously. I must
have talked to him and I said, Hey, I'm going
to Hawaii with my buddy Greg.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
We're school or we're Scooba. We just got certified scuba diving. Uh,
we're gonna be in Hawaii. Hey, if you want to
come and join us, come and join us, right, And
I I think that's what it was. I've met I
may have asked some other people to as well. You know, uh,
what island did we go to? I think the Big

(23:30):
Island in Kawhi. He either met us on the Big
Island or Kawai. I'm thinking of s sc uh. Greg
and I might have scuba dived a lot and on
the Big Island as well as Kauai. I'm I I
don't remember which island again, I'd have to look at
my pictures. I traveled a lot on my vacations. I
mean I was always gone for at least a month,

(23:53):
and I would go places and I would either run
into people or you know, you know, meet people.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
And Greg, uh, this Greg we're talking about. He was
like someone you were dating or just a buddy or.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
Well you know what I would I would say we
started out probably just buddies and either I was with
somebody or he was with somebody, but was all we
all it was kind of like we ended up just
kind of being like brother and sister and maybe he
wanted something more, but you know, it just it never

(24:29):
you know, worked out, but we we we did things together.
You know, I would consider 'em. I've probably known 'em.
Let's say, I've been on the job. Who was twenty
six years. I'd probably known him grade twenty three, twenty
four years.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
He still talk to him.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
O oh yeah, he's dying of k liver cancer right now.
Yeah yeah, yeah, so so, uh, you know, I I
I consider him a good friend, you know. You know,
I don't know what to tell you on that.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
I mean, when when you heard about uh John's wife
being killed? I mean, what was your what was your reaction?
I mean, when did you thought you heard about what
through a friend or in a.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
Bulletin or you're a friend or a bulletin. I obviously,
I mean I called and called the family. I called
maybe some of his friends that that that I knew,
And I mean, obviously it's shocked. If you're if I
heard it at work, you know which I may have.
I I faintly remember a bulletin going around. Either that
or somebody called me. I said, don't remember, uh, And

(25:35):
then I called probably called his family called uh. I
don't initially I can't say if I initially spoke to
him or not. I honestly don't remember. I may have
said to somebody, hey, have him called me if he
wants to talk, and then he may have done that.
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
You know, do you know what the circumstances were retarding
her death?

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Mm?

Speaker 4 (26:03):
Jeez, let me think back. Jeez, I don't know if
it was you know, if it was a burglar or something. Yeah,
it's I mean, it's been so many years. I I mean,
I can faintly think that I may have saw a flyer. Yeah,
uh may have had her picture on it, you know,
I may That's why I say, if somebody had called me,

(26:27):
I may not have known what her last name was.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
I may have.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
I mean maybe if you told me, I would remember it.
Shelley Sherry.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
I know something.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
Maybe you know, like I said, it's been so many years, and.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
From all the year, as far as you can remember it,
you don't do you remember ever talking to her?

Speaker 4 (26:50):
Just well I said earlier, you know, I I mean
I may have. You know, I may have talked to her.
It sounds I you know you.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Mentioned a hospital. Maybe he may have talked her to hospital.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah, yeah, I may have. You know, I'm thinking back now,
you guys are bringing up all these whole memories. Me geez,
I'm thinking that because I mean, we would date. He
would date other people. I would date other people. And

(27:26):
I think, you know, at one point, I mean, he
may have been dating her or I don't know, maybe
he was married. I don't even remember. And I'm like,
you know what, why are you calling me if you're
either dating her or living with her or married her,
because I honest don't remember the time frame. And I'm like,
come on, knock it off. And and now I'm thinking,

(27:48):
may I may have gone to and say, hey, you
know what, you know, what is he dating you? But
he's bothering me? And so I'm thinking that we had
a conversation about that one or two, may be you know,
it could have been three. I don't want to say
I had three conversations with her.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
At their at their house or no.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
I'm thinking that I you know, he obviously must have
told me where she worked. I'm thinking it was a
hospital somewhere in l A. And I just I mean,
I could have been again, what year was that? Where
was I working? You know? I don't I don't. I'm

(28:30):
trying to think of where. When did you say they
got married?

Speaker 1 (28:35):
I don't know. I think it was like in eighty
five or eighty six or something like that. Yeah, we
we just kind of picked this up. You know, I
don't know a lot about it.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
I mean, I could have been working in Hollywood. It
sounds like if if that's where I was working, So
I could have said, okay, well you know, and I
and talked to her and just said, hey, you know what,
you know, if he's dating you, he's he's keeps calling me,
why don't you tell him to knock it off or whatever?
And you know, because I probably would have told him
to knock it off, you know, John, Oh, yeah, I

(29:14):
mean I would have said hey, you know, and again, but.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
You wanted to tell her to you wanted them both
to know.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
Yeah, I mean, you know, if you get you're getting
her called. And I'm trying. I'm faintly remembering when Scott
moved in with me in nineteen ninety three, sometime in
ninety three, because I met Scott in in in April
and ninety two I was teaching derup in Oregon and

(29:45):
he moved down. In fact, he may have moved down
in ninety two, ninety two or ninety three. There was
a big earthquake, no when it was a big earthquake.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
NY four. Yeah, So.

Speaker 4 (29:57):
I think Scott might have might have moved into ninety three.
Sometime in ninety three, excuse me, I haven't had my
breakfast hit and so mm excuse me. And so I
faintly recalled that John may have called a few times,

(30:17):
and I'm like, hey, you know, I've got he goes,
look can you I like you, can you talk or something?
I'm like, you know, no, I can't talk. I've got
you know, I'm living with somebody, right, you know. And
and that could have been a few times. It could
have been once, could have been twice, could have three times.
Thee I don't know, you know that's.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
During the period of time of the earthquake that you're.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
Well, no, probably probably after Scott moved in. I think
I met Scott in April of ninety two. Oh okay,
right before April of ninety two, cause I was t
I I stopped teaching dare I think I stopped teaching
deer sometime in ninety two.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
And when you and when you say that you may
have you know that you talked to his wife said hey,
you know, I don't know if it was I guess
it wasn't his wife at that time, girlfriend or whatever.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
And yeah, I don't know if it was his wife.
Was I mean, quite honestly, I don't even remember.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
When you said, like, hey, you know he's calling me,
he needs to knock it off or what have you.
I mean, was that was that civil?

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Was there?

Speaker 4 (31:14):
I mean, oh, no, there was not. I don't think
there was anything. It was if the conversation lasted a
few minutes, so I can't even remember.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
And what is it like?

Speaker 1 (31:21):
You know, we went out to lunch or anything, right,
but there was no like arguments or fights or things
didn't get heated or anything like that, not that I recall.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
No, I mean I would think that would stand out.
I would think, now again, Dad's not standing out in
my mind.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
You know, so you didn't have any problems with her? Then,
you know, any issues with her? No?

Speaker 2 (31:42):
I mean, let me let me ask you. It seems
like you didn't have any issue. Now did she have
an issue with you as far as because now you're
telling her, hey, you know, Helma stuck calling. You know,
She's like, no, you know you figured she'd be driven by.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
You, you know, I've I don't know, I mean, from what.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
You remember as far as when you talked to her,
maybe you didn't take it as serious, but maybe you
know that she.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
She was booking me, like was she throwing things at
me or something, or just you know, as far.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
As you're trying to explain, like, hey, have n't stopped
calling me, you know, stop playing games?

Speaker 4 (32:14):
You know, I tell you if the conversation, I couldn't
even tell you how long the conversation. If you said,
did it last a half an hour? Did it last
three minutes? Did the last twenty minutes? I can't even remember.
It's been so long ago.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
You know, you just remember talking to her telling you
and that's.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
Why you said, how many times you talk to her?
I don't know how many times I talked to her.
Maybe it was once, maybe it was twice, maybe three times.
You know, I honestly don't know. I don't know what
year it was. You If he said I met her
in such and such year, I'd go, okay, well, I
don't even know he year.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
You met her.

Speaker 4 (32:47):
I graduated from you say in nineteen eighty two, Okay,
I graduated in eighty two. Like I said, I don't
know if he graduated. I know he was a little
older than I was, so I don't know if he
graduated the year before or two years before. Because people
are on different either on the four year program or
the five year program. Where here'd you come on the

(33:08):
job eighty three?

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Oh so almost pretty much immediately after you got out
of school.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
Yeah, I worked at a law firm for a year
and then came on the job. But in anyway in
regards to seeing him, not seeing him, we went to
friends' weddings that were, you know, from UCLA. I may
have gone to some of his friend's weddings from where
he worked. He may have gone to things with me,

(33:36):
you know, you know, I mean, I I don't know
how many times we went to do things, you know,
or didn't do things right? Like I said, his sister,
I know, his sister, his brother, his sister, I know,
stayed at my townhouse a number of times. I couldn't

(33:58):
tell you how many times, right I would watch his brother.
You know, I should uh take pictures at a basketball
game or two.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
Where was your townhouse at.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
In Granada Hills below the Odyssey?

Speaker 1 (34:11):
I don't, Oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
The four or five and the five, the four or
five and the f the four or five turns into
five to one eighteen. They they came down in the earthquake.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Okay, So okay, And you were saying, when you went
to see her, do you would you remember if it
was at her house or at at the place she
worked at.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
No, I'm thinking that I'm thinking there was probably for
some reason. I want to say that the hospital seemed that,
you know, if if you say he got married in
eighty five or something, I'm thinking that, you know, maybe
the hospital was on my way to work in Hollywood.
I mean that's kind of sounding familiar.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Would you have gone on duty?

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (34:58):
Oh, no, I'm I'm sure I wouldn't. If I know,
I'm I'm pretty good about not doing stuff, you know.
I mean, now I'm not saying that you know, you
haven't done stuff on duty, but I would have. I
mean I would have been working with somebody, you know,
so I wouldn't. I wouldn't think. I mean, I try
to avoid doing stuff on duty.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
So you would have gone it was in route to work,
you more in likely you would have gone to her
work and had this discussion with her.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
I mean that's sounding familiar. I mean that's now that
you guys are bringing the stuff up. I mean, it
sounds that sounds familiar. But again, I mean, you know,
what's I mean, what's this got to do with me
Dayton him and you know, her getting killed. I mean,
I I don't you know, I don't think you could.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Do with it.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
And you got something that's somebody said you know whatever.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
I mean, well, like we said, we just literally got
this the other day, and you're going through it. Yeah,
and you see next next door, right, and so you know,
I mean obviously it's like we recognize the name and
we know that you know, you work next door to us,
and so we're trying to get some background. We're trying
to figure this out. I mean, this is from a
long time ago, I know, and and things have been
kind of slow for us, and so you know, Chief

(36:07):
Beck has said, hey, you know, I want you guys working.
I don't want you just sitting around reading the paper. Yeah,
so he's kind of pushing some older cases out, even
to the guys that work active cases, because you know.
And so we see this and we're just like, oh, well,
you know, we want to talk to you about it.
But of course the only reason we did it here
is because we're getting into some pretty personal stuff in
your relationship.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
My husband's on the job.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
You know, we don't want to take the risk. We
don't want to take risk. Were in one of those
interview rooms and when the door closed, someone's going to
get supplies and see us on a monitor here's or whatever.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
And I appreciate it. I mean, like I said, that's.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Where people go when there's orals. You know, when they're
doing orals, guys will go in there and trying to
watch them, like what are the answers to the questions?

Speaker 4 (36:39):
You know that.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, so we just we just want to afford you
the most privacy and confidentiality we could. No. I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (36:45):
And like I said, I mean, this goes way back,
and I mean it was very sad. You know obviously
I haven't you know, when we were in college, some
of us would go down to his house in San Diego.
I went down to his house with him, you know,
with him. I know, I'm trying to think of some

(37:05):
other people that may have gone down there, down in
San Diego. I know his dad's was a professor at
San Diego State. I don't know if he still is.
I don't know what happened to his sister, don't know
what happened to his brother. You know, I'm sure his
Dad's probably retired by now. He was I think older

(37:27):
even back then, right, And I can't even tell you
the last time I had any contact with any of them.
It's been so long.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Did he tell you what happened, like what he heard
from the detectives or the police, or.

Speaker 4 (37:41):
You know what he may have for some reason, I'm
thinking that, I mean again, this is like drugs or something.
I mean, I think I faintly remember him mentioned something
maybe about.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Cocaine that she was involved with that.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
You know, I don't know that he said she was
involved or I thought she would. You know, again, it's
been so long, you know, he could have mentioned, he
could have told me the whole story of what happened.
And I mean, like I said, I'm faintly remembering even
between him or the flyer, that there was some kind
of a burglary.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
You know, let me ask you.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Did the detectives ever reach out to you? Ever?

Speaker 4 (38:31):
No, no one's ever talked to me. I don't think
anybody ever talked to me about about him that, you know, Well,
I take I'm thinking that I did talk to a detective. God, well,
what division was.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
It in Van eys.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
Hm And where was I working? Eighty six, I would
have been in Devonshire. You know, I'm thinking that I
did speak to somebody. Oh really, I couldn't tell you
who it was because it doesn't it doesn't say on
the phone.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Would it been somebody in regards to this or just.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Yeah, yeah, I don't even know if you said a name,
if I would remember it because I worked Van Eyes
for a while. H yeah, I worked detectives patrol, No
work detectives.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Uh huh.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
When did I go to Van Eyes? Worked Devonshire till
eighty eight, then I went to there till ninety two.
I worked twice at Van Eyes, both as detective. Yeah,
sometime in the nineties. Yeah, I know, before I busted

(39:57):
my leg up. I was there in ninety eight, cause
that year sticks out because I had a really bad
leg injury, and I was there prior to that. But
I couldn't tell you what year. It was just a
few years. I made detective I think in ninety three
ninety three, so I was at van Ey's and then

(40:20):
I went back and then I had a leg injury
and then they transfermitted to Devonshire cause I couldn't drive.
I couldn't drive very far with the my bad leg injury.
So but yeah, I I I think I talked to somebody.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Remember any would you remember any of the conversation as
far as what they were looking for?

Speaker 4 (40:40):
Couldn't say. I mean they may have told me I said, hey,
you know I went to school with him. I either
they either somebody called me or I saw the fly.
I may have seen the flyer at that point, and
I called up if if someone's name was on the fly,
I may have called to speak to them. I said, hey,
if there's anything I can do, you know, call me.
This is where I work. You know, I went to

(41:02):
uh S, you know, UH school with him. I couldn't say.
I couldn't tell you who it was.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
But you do remember that that someone you think reached
out to you. You mean a detective, Yeah, called you
up and talked to you, or I.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
Called them one of the two. But yeah, I you know,
I I remember talking to somebody, but I'm thinking it
was a man. I'm sure there's probably more men back
and so again that's I mean, that's not really all
I can remember about that.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yeah, let me get back uh to as far as
when you said that uh John was calling you to
to see you and during that time you felt that
he was felt he was either seeing her, was he
engaged or married? Did did you know?

Speaker 4 (41:56):
I couldn't say, do you remember you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
It.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
Well, let's see my husband did well. No, No, that
would have been Scott moved into ninety three, So that
would have been you said, eighty six or eighty five
or something.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Your husband you've never no, never been.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
I got married in I think ninety six. I know,
I got married in ninety six, but he moved in
in ninety three.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
But during that time that you were seeing John, uh,
you know, was he acting kind of you know, kind
of squirrely or kind of sneaking around when he'd hook
up with you, or anything like that to make you think, hey, yeah,
it probably was. I mean, I mean because from the
depression I get you've known him a long time.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
Well, let's see from what first I met him in
seventy eight. No, I met him in school. I started
sailing seventy eight.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
So you know him well during that period of time.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
Yeah, I mean, was he acting squirrely? You know, I
don't even remember where he was living then, you know,
I well, after I know, Well.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Let me ask you after he hooked.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
Up with uh if he was living on Roscoe or
wherever else he was.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Living right well after he hooked up with UH with Sherry,
do you know uh where they were living?

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Now?

Speaker 4 (43:15):
You asked me that already, uh huh, And I said, well,
obviously you were living in Van's Division. Yeah, I may
have known. I mean, I you know again, I you know,
did he ever give me the address? I maybe you know,
I don't remember. I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Cause the only reason I'm asking you again is cause
we've been talking. I know, some stuff has come to you,
cause you're like, oh, you know, So that's why I'm
asking I have you ever been to the house?

Speaker 4 (43:42):
And when you said Vane's Division, you know, I'm just
I'm sure he could have told me. I mean, he
could have told me. He could have told me where
he lived.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Do you have gone there?

Speaker 4 (44:01):
I don't think I've ever gone there. I'm saying I don't.
I don't want to say no, I've never gone there.
And then you say, oh, I was at a party,
because I don't, you know, I don't think so. Like
I said, we've got these friends, we have different we
have parties. My house, their house, I just don't think

(44:22):
John ever came to again, you know at one point,
because we knew people from school together. I knew different people,
He knew different people. I knew people that he knew
from his work, you know that lived in the valley,
you know.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
So as far as for social events or anything, I mean,
it's I mean, you're not sure if you've ever been
to the house, because.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
But it's safe to say that would have been the
only time, like for something social.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
Yeah, if I went there for something so yeah, I
mean because I know.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
You you went to talk to her at the hospital
regarding the decision with John to you know, kind of
like you know what's gonna happen here with this thing,
But would this ever have followed up to her house
when you went to talk to her? Just say, hey,
you know what.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
I don't even know that I knew where they lived.
I you know, That's what I'm saying. I don't if
I knew where they lived and i'd been there, if
it was for something social, I would. And I can't
see how many times I saw her face to face.
You know, he lived on Roscoe. Did I ever see
her there? I don't know. I mean I may have
seen their disapartment on Roscoe. I may have met her there,

(45:43):
you know.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
I mean, but she didn't have any issues with her, right, No.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
I mean, you know, obviously if he was dating me,
in dating her, probably said hey pick or something, you know,
you know back then. I can't say that we ever
or yeah, you know, it's I mean, he was a
pretty mellow guy. You know, I think I was pretty mellow.
I don't. I don't think we had some big, huge

(46:10):
blow up to say, you know, why we stopped dating
or you know. And I even think that when I
was dating him, I was probably, like I said, I
was probably going out with other guys, and he was
probably going out with other girls. But you know, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
I mean, would you remember if she snapped on you
and just like, hey man, it's my man. You know,
you get leave him alone, you know, blah blah blah
that kind of stuff, you know, And would you remember
an incident like that, I mean, because that would be like.

Speaker 4 (46:36):
What, well, you know, and maybe that happened. I mean, gosh,
I you know, it's been so long ago. I you know,
I just I mean, that's not ringing a bell.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
I mean, because the times I've seen you around in
our office.

Speaker 4 (46:52):
I'm crazy, but you're always.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
Kind of like really, I mean, you think kind of bubbly.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
Oh, I'm you know, people think I'm hyper, but I
can I mean, I can get I can get upset,
you know, and and then I forget five seconds later,
you know, you know how guys Raj and you go, ah,
you know. I mean I've done that in the office,
you know. But it's like and then I'm you know,
and then I'm you know, you know, I mean, yeah,

(47:21):
I mean it's like people think I'm crazy, and then
they think I'm crazy at home, and I'm you know more,
I'm I'm a hyper person at work. I'm you know,
I enjoy my job. I get excited. I you know,
I enjoyed the job. I've always enjoyed the job. You
got a good gig, so you know, so you know,

(47:41):
I you know, I don't know. It's it's like I said,
this stuff's been so long ago, you know. I'm sure
as soon as I walk out here, I'll go, oh, shoot,
I did twenty five things. I'll remember, you know, but.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
You'll call us sir. I mean, you'll just come over
our desk.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
Yeah, I mean I don't know what else you need
to know. Like I said, you know, we knew friends together.
A lot of the friends that you know that we
socialized in the dorms, I would say, I mean there
was a group of us that we were all really close.
I mean, even this one guy was thinking of, you know,
Diana Basta, we were all really close. I haven't talked

(48:17):
to her in a million years.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Disa being a friend of you and John's or.

Speaker 4 (48:22):
Yeah, we all lived on the dorms, on the dorms together.
I don't know if she lived on the Saint I'm
trying to think. I think I know John lived on
R floor because his roommate was Dave Newman. Dave Newman
now is a big, huge, big shot whatever movie producer,
direct or something.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
I don't know that roommate.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
Yeah, and then the guys that lived across from me,
Jim Jaskell and Roy Sukabou Sokaboo something like that, they
lived across from me. Diana Basta, I don't know if
she lived on our floor. Maybe she was the ra
a Diane Sherman, cause I still remain friends with Diane Sherman,

(49:07):
not that I'm not friends with the other people. I
just don't see him. A guy named Smita, Sally, Kathleen,
you know. So we we were all on the floor.
I mean some of them were athletes, some of them weren't,
you know. I said, John played basketball, his brother played basketball.
I played basketball at UCLA for two years. One of

(49:30):
the girls swam on the team, one was on the
crew team. So we all did stuff together. And then
I'd say, after we all graduated, we went to weddings,
you know, I went to weddings.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
But Sherry wasn't part of this circle.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
No, I don't even know how he how he met her.
I don't even know where. I mean, I don't know
where he met her from. I don't even know he
told me where he met her from. I mean he
may have told me. I you know, that's not ringing
a bell. And there was lots, I mean, you know,
there's just there was other people that knew other people,
you know, that were friends of everybody's, you know. I mean,

(50:11):
I don't know what else to tell you.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Well, one of the concerns I had is we're looking
at some of the notes, is uh, some of Sherry's
friends said that you and her were having a problem
because of the John situation.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
Well, I remember one. I don't know who her friends are,
cause again I don't I don't r recall if he
did tell me where you met her? I don't know
even know who these friends are. A problem, I guess
it if I spoke to her, I mean, I'll go
on as far and as a limb. And I don't
even wanna say I spoke to her five times, cause
that's probably not even true. I I can't even remember again,

(50:53):
did I meet him at her plate when he you know,
he lived on Roscoe for I think, uh, quite a while.
But I couldn't tell you how long you lived in
Rosco Go. And the only reason I remember the place
now is because it's like a huge dope, dope place
now where they you know, it may have been back then,
but you know, maybe wait to know back then I
could have met her there, I could have you know,

(51:15):
you know, I don't even know that I met any
of their friends.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (51:21):
I can't say that. I don't know that that's a
true statement.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Well, that's what I'm reading is that you guys have
plums with each other on words are being exchange and
it's all relating to John.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
You know what I I I I just I can't
say you can't say no, I that doesn't even ring
a bell.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
I mean, I mean it seemed like, yeah, you would
recall something if.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
I was going off on you, right, I would think
I mean I would think I would think, yeah, because
it's but that I you know, cause it.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Seems like your relationship with John was kind of I mean,
you've known each other for a lot of years.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
Yeah, it was, which just kind of it was like.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
But it doesn't seem to me from what you tell me.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
We were never engaged. I mean, it wasn't like we
were planning to get married. You know, it was like
it was I don't know how to describe it.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
I mean, would you say there wasn't a lot of
drama in this relationship?

Speaker 3 (52:19):
No?

Speaker 4 (52:19):
No, I don't think there was drama.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
I mean that's why I'm asking as far as what
the friends are saying in regards to this, you know,
the problems that they're saying you were having with with Sherry.
I mean, it seems like the relationship is just going
on even playing that just.

Speaker 4 (52:36):
That I don't have a recollection of that at all.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
No, No, because from what you're telling me, is when
you guys met at the hospital, I mean, you guys talked,
but it wasn't, from what you recall, confrontational from either side.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
I mean, I'm trying to, you know, turn my memory back,
you know, and I'm trying. I can't even can't even
picture the you know, picture the the conversation. I mean,
I can't even picture the conversation.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Well, let me ask you. I mean at the hospital,
and never got to the point where people are going, hey, hey,
you know, go to everybody, go to your own corner
and every type of thing. I don't think so nothing
like that.

Speaker 4 (53:11):
I don't think so. I mean, I really don't. I mean,
if you you know, if you say people said that,
that's not ringing a bell to me at all. I
mean it's not. I mean that that's not ringing a bell.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Was there ever a time when you and share it
we're talking and John had to maybe go like, hey,
you guys, relax, you know, or anything like that.

Speaker 4 (53:29):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
About you know, I ever going to a house and
having a dispute like that, you.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
Know, I'm just if I met her ever at his apartment,
maybe I mean, maybe we could have met it. I
could have met at her apartment. I'm thinking that the
hospital thing that sounds familiar, that I met her there.
I just can't say that again. Was I there with

(53:57):
other people? I don't. I don't know. I don't think
I ever met her there or him there, meaning one
or the other. I don't think so. I I just
I can't.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
I don't think so, because I mean, I know the
way my wife is at our house. She wouldn't want
my own girlfriends there, you know. So I don't know
if maybe she had the same mentality towards you, if
as far as you are welcome there, being welcome there,
you know.

Speaker 4 (54:26):
Because it's you know what if somebody said I was
there when they were there, then that's possible. But I
just I don't recall. I mean, I don't think so.
I don't. It's not sounding familiar.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Yeah, because I guess basically what I'm asking is, you
know where you're ever welcome to the house, like.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
You know, hey, oh come over, yeah, come on over.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
I'm in a barbecue, you know, at dinner party, Christmas
party or whatever. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
I'm just trying to think, you know, like I said,
because there were so many of us that the two
die hands Jim Jaskul Roy Smita, the scal Smita. Another
friend of ours, Beth I she passed. Seems like everybody
I know pass is passing away. She passed away. She

(55:12):
was a child diabetic and and got very ill. We
would all socialize. Like I said, I don't think John ever,
It's hard. I don't wanna say he never socialized with us,
you know it. It's been I'd have to go almost
go back and look at pictures because I take pictures.
I mean I I usually when I have I go

(55:34):
to functions. I have ten thousand pictures. Okay, I'm a
picture nut.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Let me ask, when you were seeing John, would you
I think if he would pick you up in his car,
you go in her car, you know your car, things
of that nature when you guys are go out.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Well, yeah, I mean, do you remember what he what
he drove?

Speaker 4 (55:55):
Well, I know at one time he drove either a
two forty or two sixty Z.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Any other cars that stand out in your mind?

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Mm mm I I I don't know how long you
drove that two forty or two sixty Z for.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
And the only reason I say that is cause I
think I may have a picture of it with him
in it.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
What kind of car did you have back then?

Speaker 4 (56:31):
Let's see what year?

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Or are you like one of those young cops that like,
oh I got a paycheck and bought a new car.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
No, No, I've only had like a few cars in
my whole life.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
So would you have when he came on the job? Kay?

Speaker 4 (56:45):
Well, my first car was a sixty eight Chevelle M
sixty eight Chevelle, and then I had a Toyota m
h some kind of a Toyota hatchback, but I forget

(57:07):
what the name of.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
It was, like a Corolla Tercell or something like that.

Speaker 4 (57:14):
And then I had my truck.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Did you ever have any problems with your cars?

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Like?

Speaker 2 (57:21):
What is there anything in general car wrecks than anything stolen?

Speaker 4 (57:26):
Yeah? No, my car has never been stolen. Oh no, crashed,
hit and run? Uh hitting, I mean my Turceells was
hitting and run like and I got I got pictures
of the hitting and runs. And I don't think any
of my cars have never been stolen. My cars haven't

(57:47):
been stolen, broken into.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
None of that.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
Huh oh yeah, they my cars have been broken into,
you know, but no cars had ever been stolen? M.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Hold on, well, when tell me about this? Uh the
car getting broken into?

Speaker 4 (58:10):
Now, my car's been broken into several times.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Oh? Really, did you ever lose anything?

Speaker 4 (58:15):
Or yeah, now that you mention it, let's see. I
had a gun that was stolen. I had other stuff
that was stolen.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
How did your duty gun?

Speaker 3 (58:28):
Was it?

Speaker 1 (58:29):
No, that's good.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Has it ever recovered?

Speaker 4 (58:34):
I don't know. No, I don't think so, not that
I know of, never been notified. No, car's been broken into? Yeah,
several times.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Where did that happen when your gun was taken? M?

Speaker 4 (58:50):
Trying to remember. I'm sure you guys must know cause
my car was broken into and been terra think in
Santa Monica. I have relatives that live in Santa Monica
and Venice who lives there. My uncle, well, I ha,

(59:12):
I had several uncles. Yeah, could have been Santa Monica, Venice.
My my cars were broken into in Ventura before.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
So is your mom still around or yeah? My dad?

Speaker 4 (59:31):
Yeah? Like I don't really have much of a relationship
with my dad, so I couldn' tell you where he
lives if you're where you wanna know?

Speaker 1 (59:39):
No, yeah, I couldn't tell you.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Well, like I said, as we were looking at the case,
and you know, we had read the notes as far
as from uh Sherry's friends saying you you guys have
problems or words and they got heeded, you know. And
the reason I'm asking you is they had mentioned that
an incident at her work had occurred, and they've also

(01:00:05):
told us that an incident at her house occurred. You
know what, and this is at our house during the
period of time that they're married.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
That's just not sound un familiar at all. I mean, I,
you know what, I that's just.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Not sound I.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
I again, if someone says that I was at her
house and I had an incident with her, I, you know,
I that just doesn't sound I I. I you know
it was John there. Did John say this happened? Because
and other people were there? I just I don't recall.
I mean, it just doesn't sound, you know, familiar.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
And this is an incident where you showed up, you
weren't supposed to show up and things got heat at
his house.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Yeah that I you know, I that just doesn't sound familiar.
I mean, you know, it's not sounding familiar, not at all.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
No, you're saying not familiar because it's just doesn't you remember.

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
Or you know what I have. Then i'd have to
say I don't remember, because I don't remember. That doesn't
sound familiar. I you remember something like that in your life, Well,
I would think, like the.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Other woman type of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Did you ever fight with her?

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
You mean like we fought?

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Yeah, did you ever duke it out with her?

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
I mean you'd remember that, right, that would be pretty yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:31):
I would think so. I mean specific yeah, like I said,
I mean obviously, yeah, you know. I mean, it just
doesn't sound familiar. I mean, I mean, what are they saying,
So I fought with her? So so I mean again
getting the jump of the leap. Excuse me, I haven't eaten.

(01:01:52):
They're saying, Okay, I fought with her, so I must
have killed her. I mean, come on, I mean that's
you know, I don't even know who these people are.
I can't even say I met any of these people.
I mean, that's it's insane. If it happened, I honestly
don't remember it. That's all I can tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
I mean, I mean both, I don't know. I mean,
it would it be something you would remember. I mean
because it's I don't know if any other intense incidents
in your life that have occurred. I mean you'd recall those, right,
I mean, well, I could use the force at work
or car crash something you're involved, and you'd be like, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
You would think I would remember. I mean I would
think if it was something that crazy. I mean, I
can't say, you say, how many fights have you gotten into,
you know, in your life? You know, I mean a
few at work?

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Well, fights at work are kind of different because we've
all had uses of force or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:02:44):
But I didn't even have even a lot of those.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Right, But you know, if you're if you're actually you know,
I mean I played like if if Dan and I
got mad at each other and we threw blows in
the squad room, I mean, twenty years later, I would
remember it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:55):
I mean I would think I would remember it. But
that's that's what I'm saying. That's not sounding familiar to
me at all. I mean, let me ask.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
You, I mean, throughout your life, you know, would you
remember the number of fives you've been involved in? And
I don't mean kind of like a bump or something,
just a physical fight where you everybody's hitting each other, scratching,
pulling or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:03:19):
Maybe. I mean, I can't say I've been in a lot.
You know, I played sports. You know, you get into
scuffles there, and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
You recall some of those, right I mean, just yeah,
I can recall some of them games getting cancer.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
But like I said, this, you saying this, this is
just not ringing a bell. I mean, but you know,
I don't know what to tell you. It's it's just
that's just not ringing a bell to me. But it'd
be something I would think I would remember. I mean,
I'm if.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
You're in this so too, if you're in this other
girl's house and but words are exchange, I mean, you
figured you recall.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
I would sing, especially if they got physical, right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Well, I would think and relating to you know, a
guy that you were dating and but she's dating now,
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
And it's yeah, like a whole.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Love triangle type of thing. I mean, you figured you
remember that, right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Well, I would think. So.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
I mean, I don't want to still tell you yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
No, because I'm I mean I'm trying to. I'm looking
at the notes and people are kind of I mean
they're pointing the finger at you, and.

Speaker 4 (01:04:27):
I mean that's not ringing a bell to me. So
you know, I don't know, you know, it's I don't
know what to tell you. I mean, that just sounds
crazy to me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Yeah, so you offhand, you don't recall ever going into
her house and having words and physically you know, no,
I mean her her attacking you. No, nothing like that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
No, I mean that's no nothing, no, no, not at all.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Okay, Well on some of the uh on this case,
you know this has occurring when eighty six right, Uh,
detectives process to seeing things of that nature. They did
fingerprints and all that stuff. You know, well, you know
the standard stuffing. You didn't been doing this longer than
I have.

Speaker 4 (01:05:16):
Uh, well I'm not about that. I got twenty six
years one going on twenty sixth nineteen, son.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
But you know, as they processed everything, uh, they did
the best they could at that time, and they looked
at a lot of a lot of people in different
things in this case, and you're around.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
I mean, if you guys are claiming that I'm a suspect,
then you know, I I got a problem with you
know with that, mkay. Okay, So you know, if you're
if you're doing this as an interrogation. You're saying, hey,
I'm a suspect. Well, I now I got a problem
with w You know, now you're accusing me of this?
Is that what you're is that what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
We'll trying to figure out what happened Stuffanie.

Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
Uh, well, I'm I was, you know, I'm just saying, uh,
the you know, y to what. I need to get
a lawyer if you're accusing me of you know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
You don't have to. I mean, you know, I'm you're
of your own free will.

Speaker 4 (01:06:06):
I mean, well I know, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Mean you're not under arrest. You can walk out you.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
Like, well, you know, I'm trying to give you some
background of you know, how I knew him. And now
you're telling me that some somebody's saying that we had
this big old fight. And I don't even know what
you're talking about, you know, and I don't want to,
you know, get in trouble for something that I didn't
even do, or you're saying I did something.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Okay, we understand.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
I mean, how would you guys like it if at
the tables were turned on you?

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
I understand.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Oh that's why we're telling you. I mean, you're free
to go whenever you want it. If this makes you
uncomfortable and you want to.

Speaker 4 (01:06:39):
Get well, now you're starting to make me uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
The thing is, I mean stectives did what they could
at that time on the crime scene. Okay, and the
burglary thing you're talking about, that is an angle that
they looked at angle. But now we're looking at everything
else on the case because nobody was ever rested on
the case.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
I don't know that or not.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Now, what we'd like to do is obviously you know
about all the DNA stuff and things of the nature
that you know gets done on cases nowadays. You know,
if we asked you for uh a DNA swap, would
you be willing to give us one?

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
Maybe? Because now now now, because now I'm thinking I
probably need to talk to a lawyer. Okay, I mean well,
I cause I know how this stuff works. Okay, don't
get me wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
You're right.

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
I have been doing this a long time, and and
I wish I had been recording this because because now
it sounds like you know, there's you know, you're selling
these people say I'm a fighting with her, and now
it sounds like you're trying to you know, I've been
doing this a long time. We're okay, and now it
almost sounds like you're trying to pin something on me.
Now I got that sense.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Well, what it gets to on these on these cases,
and you know it as well as I do, our
jobs is to identify and eliminate me.

Speaker 4 (01:07:49):
I can't believe this.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
So if we ask you to a point to give
us a DNA sample, a bugle swab so we can
identify or eliminade you, would you be willing to do that?

Speaker 4 (01:08:00):
Maybe because I know this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
I that's where we're at too. I mean because right
now from looking at the evidence, it's you know, it's
possible we may have some DNA at the location.

Speaker 4 (01:08:12):
That's great, and we're going to do what.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
We can to try to put this thing together. And
your name's in the book. These people are pointing at
you for whatever reason.

Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
Why. That's just crazy. I mean, that's just that's absolutely crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
And it would be irresponsible in our part not to
look at it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:31):
I know, you guys have to do your job, and
I guess I'm gonna have to contact somebody, So that's fair.
I mean, because I know how this stuff works.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
I mean, I I.

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
Just can't believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
We understand that. I mean, if we were in your position,
I mean, we would feel the same way.

Speaker 4 (01:08:48):
I just can't even believe it. I mean, it's just
I mean, I'm shocked. I'm really shocked that somebody would
be saying that I did this. I mean, we had
a fight and so I went and killed her. I mean,
come on, well that's okay, alright, well thanks for giving
me the cruisers.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
Thanks for your time.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
Yeah, thank you?

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
How me stuff in?

Speaker 6 (01:09:09):
You take your alright? You not your question?

Speaker 4 (01:11:13):
This is absolutely crazy. Let me see, Stefan, this is insane. Okay,
give me one second.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Okay, Stephanie, you know you have the right to remain silent.
Do you understand yes? Anything you say may be used
against you in court? Do you understand yes? You have
the right to the presence of an attorney before and
during any question. Do you understand yes, if you cannot
afford an attorney, you want to be appointed for you,
free of charge before any questioning if you want do
you understand yes? Do you wanna talk to us right now?

Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
Oh? Alright, okay, this that's crazy. This is as I like,
I'm liking show Buck. I'm totally in shop