Day 1 - Defense Opening Statement

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Please be seated, Please be seated. The record will show

(00:34):
the presence of the jury, the diffidend and all counsel
this well not you may proceed.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Jodyarius killed Travis Alexander. There is no question about it.
The million dollar question is what would have forced her
to do it? And throughout this trial you will hear
that Joey was indeed forced. In just under two minutes,

(01:11):
we go from the last picture taken of Travis in
the shower in just under two minutes to the picture
of Travis's body. You can see the foot in the
front with his head and his shoulders, and blood clearly
on his shoulders. In just those two minutes, Jody had

(01:34):
to make a choice. She would either live or she
would die. Jody did not always tell the truth about
what happened that night. She was scared, scared about what
had happened, and scared about what she had done. She
had absolutely no experience with police interrogation before, and so

(02:00):
when they talked to her, she wasn't always truthful. Her
fear and her panic about what had happened led her
to tell different stories. But you will learn that what
she said those stories were not the truth Throughout this trial,

(02:25):
you will learn more about Jody areas much more about Jody.
You will find that she is an articulate, bright young
woman who's a very talented artist and photographer. But most
of all, what you'll learn is that Jody loved Travis,
and so what would have forced her to have to

(02:46):
take Travis's life on that awful day. In order to
answer that question, we have to go back to the beginning,
back to before, just before she and Travis first met.
Travis and Jody met in September of two thousand and six.
At that time, Jody was in a relationship, a long

(03:09):
term relationship with Daryl Brewer. Jody and Darrel had been
together for four years at that point. Now, Jody and
Darryl first met when Jody was working at the Ventana
Inning spot and Daryl was actually her boss, but she
was quickly promoted to event planner and when she was promoted,

(03:29):
he was no longer her boss, and so the two
began to date. And at the time, Daryl had just
gotten through a very difficult divorce and he really had
no intentions of getting married again. But despite that, they
still embarked on our relationship to see where it was
going to lead them. What was serious enough that in

(03:50):
June of two thousand and five, they both put money
down on a house and a house together in Palm Desert, California.
Part of the idea was to get some roots, set
some roots down, but also the fact that Jody really
wanted some financial stability. That financial stability was there because
it was important to her, because she really wanted to

(04:13):
be able to pursue her dreams and her passion of
being an artist, and in order to do that, she
needed to have some financial stability. But unfortunately, in two
thousand and six, like it did for the rest of us,
the market crashed and Jody and Darryll's finances crashed along
with it, and so Jody was at a point in

(04:34):
her life where she was not happy with her financial
stability because it wasn't there. She was working several jobs
all at one time just to make ends meet. And
at that time, early in two thousand and six, she
met somebody at one of her jobs who just happened
to wander in and out of the blue asked her

(04:54):
where do you see yourself in five years? Before Jody
can give him an answer, her that man told her
while I'm gonna be retired, And then he proceeded to
tell her and to school her on where he worked
and what he did. What he did is he worked
for a company called pre Paid Legal, and pre Paid Legal,
if you're not familiar with it, is a company that

(05:16):
sells legal insurance. The idea is is that it's a
multi level marketing firm. So, in other words, the idea
is is the more people that you can get to
sign up underneath you, the more money you make. And
that's the kind of business it is. And so he
left the information with Jody, trying to set trying to

(05:36):
sign her up, perhaps, but Jodi really wasn't interested in
it at that point, and so she really didn't do
anything with it. And basically that information collected dust for
about a month or so, and so one day she
decided that she was gonna throw it away. She was
cleaning up and she found the DVD that he gave her,
and she's decided that she'd watch it just before she

(05:57):
threw it away. Once she watched the information about pre
Paid Legal, she really got interested and from there she
googled more information about it and ultimately she signed up online.
Once she signed up online. She actually received a call
in return from a Michelle Higgins who formally signed her

(06:18):
up as an independent associate of pre Paid Legal. Now,
this was in March of two thousand and six, a
full six months before Jody had ever heard the name
or met Travis Alexander. Now, Prepaid Legal has two big

(06:41):
conventions a year, and they had just had their convention
in March, which Jody missed because she was just signing up.
And so the next convention was in September, and the
person who signed her up really talked to her about
how important it is to go to these conventions so
you can learn more about how to get people to
buy insurance and so forth, and so so in September

(07:01):
of two thousand and six, it was with the hope
of gaining more financial stability that Jody, Michelle, and another
girlfriend hopped in the car and drove up to Vegas.
That's where the convention was being held, and it was
actually being held at the MGM Grand Now. The idea
of this convention is that it is a long weekend

(07:23):
full of meetings, meetings about how great prepaid Legal is
and as long as you can sell what they're trying
to sell and you can get people to buy, you
can stand to make a lot of money, and so
lots of the parts of these meetings are people giving
speeches about how to do it and why to do
it and how much money you can make. After one

(07:45):
of these meetings, one day, Jody was having lunch with
some of her friends that she had just met with
some of the friends that she came with. They were
at the Rainforest Cafe in the MGM Grand and she
was standing just outside the Rainforest Cafe. There was a
group of people and she sees one man across the way.

(08:06):
Batman walks right up to her, makes a beeline and says, Hi,
my name's Travis Alexander. That is how Jody and Travis
first met. They spent over the rest of the weekend.
Travis spent a lot of time with Jody, wowing her
about how important he was because he was actually an

(08:28):
executive director. An executive director and prepaid legal, which means
he was at a higher level in the company. He
had a lot of people signing up underneath him, which
pushes him up to a higher level. She learned that
because he was an executive director that he would get
to go to the executive director banquets, and after meeting Jody,

(08:51):
he invited Jody to go and so although it's a
place that she normally wouldn't get to go because she
had just signed up, she got to go to this
executive banquet. She he also invited her to sit in
the front seats. So at these meetings, usually the front
seats the front rows are reserved for people who are
considered important in pre Paid Legal. It wouldn't have been
Jody at that time, but because of Travis and his invitation,

(09:16):
she got to sit up front. He took her through
a tour of the casino. They talked and talked and talked,
and in fact, at one point they sat on a
bench in the casino to the wee hours of the morning,
where at some point Travis actually tried to kiss Jody,
but Jody had to stop him and remind him that

(09:38):
she had a boyfriend, Darryl. During the time that they
spent together, Jody learned a lot about Travis. Not only
was he an executive director at pre Paid Legal, but
he being an executive director, he made many speeches at

(09:59):
these conventions to try and get people to sign up
at pre Paid Legal, not only that he was a Mormon,
which is a religion that really emphasizes and values marriage
and children, and they spoke a lot about that that weekend.
Jody was captivated. After the convention, Travis kept in touch

(10:24):
with Jody. They talked on the phone for hours. They
continued talking and texting after the convention, and in fact,
it was just four days after the convention when Jody
had to sit down talk with Darryl. They talked about
their relationship, how it wasn't really progressing, and they eventually
broke up. Daryl moved into a different bedroom within their

(10:45):
own house. It was only the following weekend after the convention,
about a week and a half after the convention ended,
that Travis convinced Jody to come and meet him at
his friend's house Marietta, California, and that was Christmas Sky Hughes,
and Jody agreed, so she drove up to meet Travis

(11:09):
with his friends at their house and spent the weekend
with them. It was that weekend, a week and a
half after first meeting Travis, that they introduced her to
the Mormon church and they took her to church. It
was a few days after that the following Wednesday that Travis,

(11:29):
on his way home from California, stopped back to Mesa, Arizona,
stopped in Palm Desert, California to see Jody once more,
and when he stopped, he met Jody at a Starbucks.
It was at that Starbucks that they had some more discussions,
and that was when Travis gave Jody the Book of Mormon.

(11:52):
Shortly after that visit at Starbucks, Travis sent missionaries, Mormon
missionaries to Jody's house in Palm Desert, and those missionaries
came to visit her once a week from to the
end of September. All the way through October, the missionaries
would have sit down talks with Jody, discussed the LDS Church,

(12:13):
discussed the Book of Mormon and all the good reasons
why it was to join and convert. And so in
November of two thousand and six, just two months after
meeting Travis, Travis convinced Jody to convert to Mormon. Now,
not only was Travis portrayed as an important member of

(12:35):
Prepaid Legal but he was a very important member of
the Mormon Church as well. He was a temple member,
and a temple member is not just a member of
the church a temple member is it's special. It's special
because in order to become a temple member, one has

(12:57):
to actually live what they consider a worthy life. And
a worthy life is someone who has no alcohol, no tobacco,
no tea, no coffee, and above all, that person has
no SIPs without marriage of any kind. It was a

(13:18):
prestigious honor to be a member of a temple member,
and Travis was He was someone to be admired to Jody.
He was a good Mormon man that she had met,
and in November, Travis baptized Jody into the Mormon Church. Now,
Travis and Jody took many trips together during the time

(13:38):
that they knew each other. They well, Jody is a
wonderful photographer, and so much of their trips are actually
documented in photographs. And so they took a lot of
trips together for church trips, in other words, going to
visit different Mormon churches, special places for the Mormon Church,

(14:00):
and then just trips together. Certainly, on the outside looking in,
it really appeared like they were involved in a very
loving and healthy relationship, but nothing could be further from
the truth. In fact, behind the smiles and these photographs,

(14:25):
there was a whole nother reality for Jody, a reality
that Travis created because in reality, Jody was Travis's dirty
little secret from the moment, despite projecting himself as a
good and virginal Mormon man, someone who was a temple member,

(14:47):
from the moment he met Jody, he was pushing and
pushing her to have a sexual relationship with him, and
it took just about a week because the weekend that
they met at Christ and Sky Hughes's house, he got
what he wanted. As Travis would explain to Jody, oral
sex really isn't as much of a sin for him

(15:07):
as vaginal sex, and so he was able to convince
her to give a mooral sex, and later in their relationship,
Travis would tell her that anal sex really isn't much
of a sin compared to vaginal sex, and so he
was able to persuade her to allow him to have
anal sex with her. Being a temple member and an
executive director of prepaid legal outward appearances would be very

(15:32):
important to Travis, and so while he continued this facade
of being a good and virginal Mormon man, he was
inwardly dealing with his own sexual issues and in Jody.
In Jody, he found somebody who was easily manipulated and controlled,

(15:54):
someone who would provide him with that secretive sexual relationship
that he needed while on the outside he can still
pursue the appropriate Mormon woman. Jody wanted nothing but to
please Travis, and in doing that she at some points

(16:21):
during their relationship he would tell her, you know you, really,
maybe you ought to see somebody else, date somebody else.
But the moment that Jody would ever even text another
man or talk to another man, Travis would instantly degrade her,
yell at her, embarrass her, and humiliate her. And so
Jody learned very quickly how to deal with Travis's temper.

(16:44):
She learned how to deal with his temper by being humble, compliant,
and agreeable, and that was one good way to help
avoid his temper. Jody officially broke up with Travis in
June of two thousand and seven, and this June of
two thousand and seven was she broke up with him

(17:04):
because she found out that despite having sex with Jody
and saying things like he loved her, he was pursuing
other women. And so because of that, Jody broke up
with him, but Travis didn't want to break up. Travis
begged her for forgiveness, and even though they were considered

(17:27):
officially broken up, they never stopped seeing each other. They
never stopped talking with each other or emailing or texting. Now,
at the time that they broke up, Jody was living
in Big Sur, California, and Travis was living in Mesa, Arizona.
In July of two thousand and seven, Travis sent Jody

(17:48):
a poem, a poem that basically apologized for his behavior
and asked her to be with him. Later in July
two thousand and seven, Jody actually flew out to see
Travis and Masa and spent the weekend with him. That
weekend sealed the deal, because Travis showered her with attention,

(18:13):
was nothing but sweet and kind, and so shortly after that,
Jody moved from Big Sur, California to Mesa, Arizona. She
moved in with a girlfriend of hers she knew from
the Mormon Church. Now, despite the attention that Travis paid
to Jody in private, he treated her far differently in

(18:39):
the public eye. You'll hear how Travis degraded Jody to
his friends. You'll hear that he often referred to her
as a stalker or claimed.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
That she was crazy, and if she did anything like
speak with another man or text another man, he would
further degrade her by calling her names, names like slut
and horror.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
He would text her these things and email her these things.
The more that Travis distanced himself from Jodie to his friends,
the easier it was for him to keep control of
her and to keep for his own sexual needs. Now,

(19:28):
one of the witnesses that you'll hear from is named
Alice Levila. Miss Levila is an expert in dealing with
domestic violence. She has decades decades of experience with the
domestic violence counseling and in fact, she started, I think
in nineteen seventy eight counseling battered women in shelters. But

(19:49):
today her specialty is treating people for domestic violence. She
treats the victims of domestic violence, but she also treats
the abusers violence. Miss Violette will explain to you how
domestic violence relationships are created. She will explain to you

(20:12):
that they are not created overnight. And she'll also talk
to you about how in domestic violence. When we refer
to domestic violence. We're not always talking about physical violence.
In fact, a lot of times domestic violence comes from
control through verbal abuse. She'll talk to you about the

(20:32):
difficulty with domestic violence and how a lot of times
domestic violence goes unreported and unprosecuted. She'll talk to you
about the reasons for that, because a lot of domestic
violence victims are ashamed of what happens to them. Domestic
violence victims sometimes fear that their abuser is going to

(20:53):
get even more violent if they actually report it. And
sometimes domestic violence victims believe and hope that the abuser
will change like he promises he's going to. Most importantly,
miss le Violette will talk to you about why domestic
violence victims don't have the same ability that everybody else

(21:16):
does to make that decision to leave. Because if somebody
is abusing you, get up and leave. Miss Leviolette will
explain to you that it is not an easy decision
to make for somebody who has been abused, because there's
a lot of psychological components that go into that decision. Now,
the best evidence of Travis's manipulation of Jody is his

(21:43):
insistence to others that Jody stopped him his insistence to
others that Jody wouldn't leave him alone, But yet it
was always at his demand and his beckoning that Jody
spend time with him. In fact, at one point during

(22:03):
their relationship, Travis even had a T shirt made, a
T shirt made proclaiming his ownership of Jody. Now, I
know that in some circles, and certainly in some relationships,
maybe that would be considered cute or funny. But if
you understand the inner workings of the relationship between Travis

(22:24):
and Jody, that T shirt is a perfect example of
how Travis treated Jody, oftentimes even well. In April of
two thousand and eight, Jody had had enough because Jody
found out that once again, Travis was pursuing other women.
Even though he was having her in his bed, Travis

(22:47):
was still pursuing other women. And in April of two
thousand eight, Jody had enough. She moved from Mesa, Arizona,
back to California to Wayrika, which is where her grandparents lived.
Even though she moved, Travis didn't let her go. He
continued emailing, texting, and calling. He guilted her about leaving him.

(23:12):
And the thing is with the Tucker relationship that they
were in the minute that Travis was nice to Jody
and caring about to Jody, she fell right back into
that relationship with him. And so even though she left
and moved states, they still continued to talk and email
and text. In fact, even though they didn't see each

(23:39):
other from April of two thousand and eight until June
of two thousand and eight, Travis was still able to
use Jody for his own sexual desires through the phone
and phone sex. You'll actually hear a recorded phone call,
recorded call between Travis and Jody that's very, very explicit,

(24:02):
And this phone call is made just a couple of
weeks before Travis dies. It's clear and this phone call
that the both of them are talking about how they're
gonna marry find somebody and marry someone else. Jody very
clearly knows that Travis is not going to marry her
and she's not going to marry Travis, and they discuss it.

(24:26):
Travis talks about how they're gonna He's going to cancob
with somebody else. Jody knew that, and she expresses alsolutely
no dismay about it whatsoever. And this is just weeks
before he dies. Most importantly, most importantly, when you hear

(24:49):
this call, it's it's crucial to understand the difference, the
difference between the type of person that Travis portrayed himself
to be versus the things that he said on this
recorded call. Because while he was supposed to be this
virginal Mormon man who didn't want to have any type

(25:10):
of relationship with Jody and she just wouldn't leave him alone,
in this phone call, he talks about his fantasies, his
fantasies with Jody, of tying her to a tree and
putting it forgive me in her ass all the way
that's Travis. And then when Jody pretends to climax during

(25:34):
this phone call, Travis tells her that she sounds like
a twelve year old girl who was having an orgasm
for the first time. And then he tells her it's
so hot. These comments are not comments of a man
who is being relentlessly stopped and who does not want

(25:54):
to have any contact with Jody. These are comments of
a man who has a real prime problem with the
comparison to the person he portrays himself to be and
who he's supposed to be versus the person his own
private reality and the person who he really was. So

(26:15):
what would have force Jody? It was Travis's continual abuse,
and on June fourth of two thousand and eight, it
had reached a point of no return and sadly, Travis
left Jody no other option but to defend herself. On

(26:37):
that horrible day, Jody believed that Travis was going to
kill her. He threatened to kill her, and given her
experience with him, she had no reason to not believe.
Travis knew that Jody was planning a trip to Utah
because they had talked about it. He knew that she
was going to stop along the way and see different
friends of hers. He kept asking her to and see him,

(27:01):
and at the last minute, Jody decided that she would
veer off and take a short trip to Mesa to
come and see Travis at his Beckne And so she
gets to Mesa early in the morning, around four or
so in the morning. Travis is in his den he
which is downstairs. He's on the computer when she gets there,

(27:23):
and we know this because there's a forensic examination done
of his computer, so we know he was on the
computer at four in the morning. Travis wanted to have sex,
but Jody was said she was too tired, and so
the two went upstairs and they went to sleep. They
slept until about one in the afternoon, and when they

(27:45):
got up at one in the afternoon, they began to
engage in sexual activity. Travis always had wanted to tie
Jody up, and he had done it before. He had
tied her up with rope before, but the rope he
had used really hurt her, and so this time he
was prepared. He had rope that was soft, the kind

(28:06):
of rope that people use for decorating to hold curtains back,
so it's like a softer rope. He had that kind
of rope and he was ready, and so Travis tied
Jody up, tied her to the bed with this rope.
He used a knife to cut the rope when it
was at the appropriate length, they engaged in sexual activity.

(28:28):
And then part of what they were doing that afternoon too,
was that he wanted to take pictures of Jody. He
had gotten a new camera just a month or so before,
and he wanted to use it to take pictures of Jody. Now,
the kind of pictures that Travis wants to take of
Jody are the kind that would make most people cringe

(28:51):
with embarrassment. And we show you these photos not for
any type of shock value, but you're going to see
him in trial because this is These are the photos
that Travis took of Jody, very up close. Travis also
liked to see Jody in pigtails, and so she put

(29:11):
her hair in pigtails for him. These photos were taken
in the afternoon. Later that afternoon, Travis and Jody were
downstairs and they were back in his den. They were
pouring through pictures of all of their trips together, all
the different pictures that they had, and there was a

(29:31):
problem because Travis couldn't pull up pictures on his computer
and he was having a problem getting to see these pictures. Well,
we know that there was a virus on Travis's computer,
and we know that because of the forensic examination that
was done, and so when he tried to pull up
these pictures, it wasn't working right. Well, Travis's temper flared
and he took the CD and he threw it up

(29:53):
against the wall in the den. Jody went immediately into
protective mode. Protective mode means that she's trying to calm
him down, trying to do something to avoid his temper,
telling him that it's okay, I'll fix it, don't worry
about it. And as she was telling him, she knew

(30:14):
that the one thing that calms his temper the quickest
is sex. So as she's telling him it's okay, I'll
fix it, don't worry, Travis grabbed her and spun her around.
Afraid that he was going to hurt her, Jody was
actually relieved when all he did was bend her over
the desk, pull her arm up behind her back, pull

(30:36):
her pants down, and have quick and rough vaginal sex
with her ejaculating all over her back. When Travis was finished,
Jody was allowed to get up and go to the
restroom across the hallway from the den. She watched herself off,
and then the two went upstairs to the bedroom back

(30:58):
up to get her stuff. But his temper had now
subsided and he was now back into the sweet talking mode,
and he was sweet talking her to stay for a
little bit longer because he had in preparation for his
Cancoon trip that he was going to be leaving on shortly.
He had been working out and he had been dieting,
and so he really wanted to have pictures taken of him,

(31:20):
tasteful pictures to show his progress on what he's done
with his dieting and working out, and he wanted Jody
the photographer to take those pictures of him, and so
she did. They went upstairs and he went into the
shower and Jody began snapping pictures of him, tasteful pictures,

(31:45):
waste up pictures for Travis. She was snapping picture after
picture after picture, and you can see that this one
was taken at These pictures are ultimately found in timestamped,
so you'll see that this picture was taken at five
twenty nine in the afternoon and twenty seconds. The next

(32:07):
picture is the last picture of Travis taken in the shower,
and you can see that in this picture he's you
can't tell so much if he's sitting or standing, but
you can see that his shoulders are out, and in
the next picture you can see that his shoulders are
out sitting on his knee. There's a difference of a
little over a minute between the two pictures. This was

(32:30):
the last picture of Travis taken in the shower during
their photo session, because the next picture is taken when
Jody accidentally drops Travis's camera. You can see that it's
not an intentional picture because one it's blurry, but two
it's of the ceiling facing up. Jody accidentally drops Travis's

(32:52):
camera and as that camera was falling, that was enough
for Travis, because he lunged at Jody in anger, knocking
her to the ground in the bathroom where there was
a struggle. Jody's life was in danger in just under
a minute from this. In just a minute from this picture,

(33:14):
we go to the next picture where it's Travis's body.
He's clearly injured already in a minute. Now, that very
brief moment of time, a minute is not the result
of premeditation. It is not the result of a planned
out attack.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Ju argument.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
Say, the evidence will show that it is not. The results.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Council apriage.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
It is just one minute, just one minute of time
between the camera falling until you see the picture of
Travis with blood. Minute. In that one minute, had Jody
not been forced to defend herself, none of us would
be here in that one minute. Had Jody not chosen

(34:15):
to defend herself, she would not be here. Thank you.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take
another ten minute recess. Please remember the admonition be back
at five minutes until three.

Speaker 6 (34:30):
You are excused.

Speaker 5 (34:32):
Council, please approach.

Speaker 7 (34:48):
We did.

Speaker 5 (34:48):
The record will show the presence of the jury, the defendant,
and all counsel. The state may call its first witness.
Please come forward right up here to sworn. Could you
smell your personal last name please M A R I
E last ns H A L L right read right

(35:11):
now you saw, miss swear.

Speaker 8 (35:13):
The testimony you're about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing about the truth.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
To help you God, I do thank you.

Speaker 5 (35:18):
Let just walk right around here and have a seed
me perceived.

Speaker 6 (35:22):
May I have your name, please, Marie Hall?

Speaker 1 (35:25):
And drawing your attention back to June through about in
an a did you happen to know an individual by
the name of Travis Alexander?

Speaker 6 (35:33):
Yes? They did?

Speaker 1 (35:34):
And how did you meet him?

Speaker 6 (35:37):
I met him through uh church?

Speaker 1 (35:41):
What church was that?

Speaker 6 (35:42):
The Church of Jesus Christ? The Gladdity of Saints? Is
that a single sword?

Speaker 7 (35:46):
Are they also known as Mormons?

Speaker 6 (35:48):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (35:48):
M And how long have you been in privuts in Mormons?

Speaker 6 (35:51):
My whole life?

Speaker 1 (35:53):
And how was it that you met him? You said
you met him for church. But explain to me how
it was that you met him.

Speaker 6 (35:57):
I gave it a talk in ch in the church
service on a Sunday, and he came up to me
afterward and commented on how well I did.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
When was that approximately.

Speaker 6 (36:09):
Approximately January or February of two thousand and eight?

Speaker 1 (36:13):
And after he had that conversation with you, did you continue.

Speaker 7 (36:18):
To see him?

Speaker 6 (36:19):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (36:20):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (36:20):
How often would you see He asked me out a
couple of times. I think we went on three dates and.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
I I know that, but I mean would you did
he ask you that immediately or did he that first
time that he met you then? Or how did that progress?

Speaker 6 (36:34):
I would see him every Sunday at church, and then
we had weekly activities, and so he probably asked me
out a couple of weeks after he commented on my talk.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
These activities that you're talking about the church, what were they?

Speaker 6 (36:50):
They were church single adult activities. So we would either well,
there was a family home evening, so every Monday we
would meet uh for a ritual thought and just the
socializing time, and then we would have service activities or just.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Fun active Let me ask you about the singles activities
you said that were those on any given day or
was that any time?

Speaker 7 (37:14):
Or how did those work?

Speaker 6 (37:17):
The activities are word usually weekly. The most consistent ones
that we would have would be Monday night for a
family home evening. We called it that's awesome when a
correct yes.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
And the family home evening? What time does that start?

Speaker 6 (37:36):
Seven seven thirty.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
And what time does it normally end?

Speaker 6 (37:40):
About eight thirty? About what time eight thirty?

Speaker 1 (37:45):
And during this time the family home evening. It implies
that by the word family that your own family is there.
I thought that you told me or said something about
singles ward or something. Are they the same thing or
is it something different? Or what's going on? So?

Speaker 6 (38:00):
Growing up in a family, the church set, you know,
set aside a time for families to meet every you know,
to have a little gathering at home where they share
a spiritual thought. But in the singles ward they just
have you know, there's obviously no families in the singles
word is just single adults from the age of eighteen

(38:20):
to thirty one. They will meet every Monday as if
they were a big family.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
And as I understand it, what you're saying though, even
though you're calling in a family home evening, what you're
telling me is if you're in a single ward, it's
just about your sins.

Speaker 6 (38:35):
Yeah, it's a meet and Greek type of thing.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
And what was the ages involved here?

Speaker 6 (38:41):
Eighteen to thirty one?

Speaker 1 (38:43):
And what happened to a single who hasn't married after
the age of thirty one?

Speaker 6 (38:48):
They go to a family ward. Typically they go to
a family ward. So like me, I'm thirty three, I'm
in a family ward.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Now what does that mean?

Speaker 6 (38:59):
Well, people who are married, people who are single, you know,
just everyone goes to the same ward. If you're a
single adult over thirty one, you would go to a
family ward. Now unless you have an older single ward
in your area.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Or where you live.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
What do the activities that are in the single wards
do they differ from the family ward hosts thirty one?

Speaker 6 (39:27):
Yes? How so, well, you're not going out y you
know the w the family ward doesn't meet together every
Monday night for family home union. That's just done individually
on a family by family basis. Sometimes you'll have big
activities with the ward. Whard you might go to a
lake and have a barbecue, but usually that's done with

(39:50):
single adults. And then both a single adult ward and
a family ward will do service projects.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Well, let me ask you about the single a award
activity in describing it, it just seems to me that
that's more of a social kind of.

Speaker 7 (40:10):
Approach to things with religion. Next, then would that be
fair or not?

Speaker 6 (40:15):
Yeah, that's fair?

Speaker 1 (40:16):
And what kind of social activities does it spose the
single ward?

Speaker 7 (40:21):
What did they engage in?

Speaker 6 (40:25):
Okay, uh, we we would go to maybe we would
go ice skating altogether, or we would go to a
lake or have a barbecue, or we would go to
someone's house and and typically there's a spiritual thought, maybe
a scripture read in someone's personal experience with that, and

(40:49):
that's usually like ten minutes, and then we just have fun.
And and for a singles ward, it's an area for
people to meet each other, get to know each other,
possibly make a connection where they start dating and eventually
get married.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
These single words that we're talking about, if there were
singles word for all of mesa and single words can
be or how of what are the geographical lines if
you will, for a singles word.

Speaker 6 (41:18):
Yeah, so they've broken up geographically usually for convenience sake,
you know, so that you have one close in your
neighborhood that you can go to. I don't know like
how they determine the boundaries as far as what the distances,
but they're usually pretty small. And in this in at
least in Mesa Gilbert area, there are several, uh, single adults.

(41:43):
They have even single adult steaks.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
So and he asked you about the single board that
you were impact in two thousand and eight.

Speaker 7 (41:51):
Did that have like a name or geographical names?

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah, well let me have that. You can't take holding design?
What what was that?

Speaker 6 (42:01):
The name of our award was Desert Ridge Ward at
the time, and then it was yeah, changed to Indigo Bay.

Speaker 7 (42:07):
But but it was Desert Ridge Fact then ye? Correct?

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Is that?

Speaker 6 (42:10):
Yes? Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 9 (42:12):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
And with regard to that ward that you were in,
how many people would you how many singles.

Speaker 5 (42:18):
Would you say?

Speaker 6 (42:19):
Was in there several hundred? How many several hundred?

Speaker 1 (42:23):
And would they all meet at the same time on
Mondays for the family on meetings or is it something.

Speaker 6 (42:28):
That Yeah, sometimes we would meet in smaller groups, but
but for the most part we would all meet together.
Not everyone would show up every Monday. So you're looking
at a group of maybe fifty to one hundred people
showing up every Monday.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
And would there be a situation where people's from a
your single board, the Desert Ridge one, would they, for example, uh,
associate with members from another single board?

Speaker 6 (42:56):
Uh? Yeah, you could do that.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Were you familiar with the university uh singles board or not?

Speaker 6 (43:02):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (43:03):
And how far away geographically speaking was the one of
the university from yours?

Speaker 6 (43:11):
Y you mean rayle Wise or like just kind of
sure it? It was probably ten miles five five to
ten miles away?

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Five ten miles away?

Speaker 6 (43:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
The and as to which word you belong, is that
a place of residence or is that a choice that
is made by a person who's going to be in
the Singles Ward.

Speaker 6 (43:31):
It's set up to be uh by a place of residence.
So you if you live Travis and I lived in
this the same neighborhood, and so we went to the
same singles Ward.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
You you mentioned that he complimented some sort of presentation
that you made. Was that presentation made as part of
the singles Ward family home evening or was that made
as part of some your presentation of something else?

Speaker 6 (43:55):
That was he commented on a talk that it gave
during our sacrament meeting, which is on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
We that so that's not the same as the singles
board meeting and.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
All that stuff.

Speaker 6 (44:06):
Right, that's church, right, right, that's church.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
And that was on a Sunday.

Speaker 6 (44:11):
That was on the Sundays. And he came up to
you after one of those talks, right, yes.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
And after that is when he asked.

Speaker 6 (44:18):
You some time after that, right yeah?

Speaker 1 (44:20):
And was it at this singles meetings that he asked
you or how did that come about?

Speaker 7 (44:29):
If you remember?

Speaker 6 (44:30):
I I I don't remember if he called me or
if he asked me at one of the meetings, I
don't remember.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
And uh, did you agree to go.

Speaker 6 (44:37):
Out with him? Yes?

Speaker 1 (44:39):
And describe for me the day. Did he come to
your house? Did he take you somewhere? Wren't you? Just
tell me a little bit about the day.

Speaker 6 (44:50):
And we went to dinner, and we went to Barnes
and Noble, a bookstore, and had some hot chocolate.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
And about what time did the day start?

Speaker 6 (45:00):
Probably about seven thirty and about what time did it ends?
About ten thirty, So it's a total three hours, right?

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (45:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (45:10):
And during that time did you developed any feelings for him?
Were there any sparks there was? Tell me about how
you felt during this day?

Speaker 6 (45:22):
I thought he was a really nice guy, but I
didn't have any sparks.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
And did you let him know about that?

Speaker 6 (45:30):
I just by the first date.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Now it's the first thing. Now we're talking.

Speaker 6 (45:34):
I just kind of, you know, just by the way
you act with someone when you're not quite as interested
in them.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
And during that day, did mister Alexander said sexually uh
it appropriate to you at all?

Speaker 10 (45:48):
No?

Speaker 1 (45:49):
At any time during that day did he kiss you?

Speaker 11 (45:52):
No?

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Did he try to kiss you when he dropped you off?

Speaker 6 (45:55):
No?

Speaker 1 (45:56):
And at any time did he reach out hold your
hand or do anything like that.

Speaker 6 (46:00):
No. At the most he made he gave me a
hug good night, like an awkward.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
How did you leave the day? Did you guys agree
that you were going to go out again or what?

Speaker 6 (46:13):
Uh? I just typical where you know, I had a
great time, Thank you very much. Should go out some time? Okay,
sure you know that that kind of thing. But shortly
after I started, but.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
You didn't really wanna go out right? No?

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (46:27):
After that, did you start seeing somebody else?

Speaker 6 (46:30):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (46:31):
And and about when was that that you started to
see the other individual?

Speaker 6 (46:38):
Within a matter of like a week or two, I started.
It was kind of I had gone out on probably
the other individual once before, and so we started going
out more often, okay?

Speaker 7 (46:48):
And was this person also on the singles board or not?

Speaker 6 (46:51):
He wasn't a singles word but not in our singles word.
I knew who I met him through another friend.

Speaker 7 (46:56):
But he was also more of a friend.

Speaker 6 (46:58):
Yes, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
How long did you.

Speaker 7 (46:59):
Contee wan you to see this other individual?

Speaker 6 (47:01):
Just a couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
So after a couple of weeks you and this other
individual broke up again, I guess or stopped seeing each other, right,
that's correct. And after that, as it applies to mister Alexander,
did you approach him or did he approach you?

Speaker 6 (47:18):
He approached me?

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Hm, And any idea of.

Speaker 6 (47:22):
To date more or less what it was, I would
uh say it was in mid February m March maybe, and.

Speaker 7 (47:31):
During that time.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
That he approached you, whether it's mid February or mid March,
what happened? Ask you out or what happened?

Speaker 6 (47:40):
Tell me what happened? Yes, he asked me out and
we went on another date.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Uh, we went. And did do you know whether or
not he knew about southern individual that you'd got up with?

Speaker 6 (47:50):
I had to I think he Yeah, I k I
had told him because he had asked me out before
I had told him that had I had started dating
somewhere else, and so, you know, he and then when
I broke up, I he found out I'm assuming and started,
you know, trying to ask me how again.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
So during the when you told him that you were
seeing this other individual, was he upset? Did start raising
his boys and curse or anything like? No?

Speaker 3 (48:15):
Yea.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
What was his reaction when you said, you know, I'm
seeing somebody else.

Speaker 6 (48:20):
He's very sweet and respectful and totally understood.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Did you and him ever text each other?

Speaker 6 (48:26):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (48:27):
How about emails? Did you exchange those?

Speaker 6 (48:29):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (48:30):
After you told him you were going to see this
other individual? Did he send you e text messages calling you,
I don't know, disparaging names, bad names?

Speaker 11 (48:41):
No?

Speaker 1 (48:41):
No, But did he continue to text with you?

Speaker 6 (48:45):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (48:45):
How about emails? Did he and he continue to correspond.

Speaker 6 (48:48):
To an email? Yes?

Speaker 1 (48:49):
And did he ever send you any emails calling you
names or accusing you of things?

Speaker 6 (48:54):
None at all?

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah, So he reapproaches you again after you're done with
this relationship and you say that could be February or
March of two thousand and eight, is that yes?

Speaker 6 (49:04):
Yes, Hm?

Speaker 1 (49:06):
And where do you go on this day?

Speaker 6 (49:09):
We went to a place where you paint pottery and
we both well I made him.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
A bowl, alright.

Speaker 6 (49:17):
And what town was this then, Mason?

Speaker 1 (49:21):
What time did he pick you up?

Speaker 6 (49:25):
Seven thirty typical time probably?

Speaker 1 (49:28):
And how long were you out with him?

Speaker 6 (49:29):
Just took a couple of hours, probably three hours?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
And what happened after you the two of you were
done thinging this pottery, he took me home. And during
the time that you were with him that day, did
he ever curse at all?

Speaker 11 (49:43):
No?

Speaker 1 (49:44):
During that time did he have to make any sexual advances,
whether they were warranted or unwarranted?

Speaker 6 (49:49):
No? I felt very safe with Chucks. He was, you know,
very respectful I had. There was no or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
And any time did he curse at you or you
see that show ay tempered or that time?

Speaker 3 (50:00):
No?

Speaker 1 (50:01):
And at the end of the day, did you want me?
And again i'd engage in what maybe customer hide him,
uh touching, You can't saying that sort of thing.

Speaker 6 (50:11):
No, And again it would just be an awkward hug
at night. That was That was the extent of anything.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
And during that time did you ever indngage him that
maybe the sparks weren't.

Speaker 6 (50:20):
There for you, not on the dates.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
No, No, any any time after that did you tell
him that or did you continue going up?

Speaker 6 (50:31):
We went out one other time, and then at that point, I,
you know, I g I was trying he was a
really fun guy. I was trying to get to know him,
and I didn't wanna write him off too soon. So
but at after the third date, you know, I I
let him know that I just wanted to be friends.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
The third date, what was that that you want?

Speaker 6 (50:50):
On the third day, it would have it would have
been in March, and we went to rock claiming.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
And where was this place that you went rock climbing?

Speaker 6 (51:02):
The Phoenix Rauction in Tempe?

Speaker 1 (51:05):
And was this also starting at seven thirty or did
this start at a different time.

Speaker 6 (51:10):
I don't wanna call exactly, but I would assume it
would have been early evening seven.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
And know about what how much time you spent.

Speaker 6 (51:18):
With him again, just a couple of hours, just you know,
And again.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
At any time during this day did he make any
sensual advances towards you? Then did he attempt to kiss
you as the date was done? No, did he attempt
to kiss you when he first saw you. Yep, did
he attempt to kiss you? Not on the lips, but
like a forehead or something? No, during this date?

Speaker 3 (51:43):
Is that when you after this date or during this date? I?

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Did you let him know that perhaps he's not for you?

Speaker 6 (51:50):
After the date? Yes?

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Said like, how did you do that?

Speaker 6 (51:55):
I don't remember if it was through a phone or
in person, but I let know that, you know, I
just wanted to be friends?

Speaker 7 (52:02):
But it was verbal with him?

Speaker 1 (52:03):
It was verbal? Yeah, okay? And is that what you said,
I just want to be friends? Or did you say
anything else?

Speaker 6 (52:12):
I just yeah, I I don't remember exactly where what
I said.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
For What was his reaction? Do you were telling him?

Speaker 6 (52:19):
He understood? And he he actually thanked me for telling him. Actually,
what thanked me for telling him directly? You know, so
that he knew Marcus did and I know he misrespectful
about the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
So did he ever tell you why he he thought
you wouldn't even make a good match or anything like
that or not?

Speaker 6 (52:38):
No?

Speaker 1 (52:39):
So after that, did you continue to stay in contact
with him or not? Yes?

Speaker 6 (52:46):
We continued on being friends.

Speaker 7 (52:49):
And uh, how did that manifest itself?

Speaker 1 (52:51):
How did you keep in touch? With him.

Speaker 6 (52:53):
We would continue to see each other at church. I
started a book and film club. What a book and
film club? Okay, So our first meeting we had at
his house. He had a movie projector and it was,
you know, a fun, fun friendship.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
And yeah, and at any time during this friendship as
it went along, did he ever, I didn't know, brade
you in any way?

Speaker 6 (53:23):
No, I'm not sure would be raidings all say.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Did he have any time scream at you and that
sort of thing?

Speaker 3 (53:28):
Nokay?

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Where were you work at now?

Speaker 6 (53:32):
I worked for a JP Morgan Chase.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
And have you attended college?

Speaker 6 (53:36):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (53:37):
Where did you graduate from?

Speaker 6 (53:38):
Brigham Young University? Worked Brigham Young Bau.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Alright, And with regard to the Mormon faith, what is
their belief with regard to sexual contact before marriage.

Speaker 6 (53:57):
It's a it's a very serious sin and one that
you could lose your good standing in church for you
could even become uh excommunicated for it.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
What does excommunicated mean?

Speaker 6 (54:10):
In the church? You know, a good a member of
good standing holds callings where they you know, do service
for other word members, other people, they attend the temple.
Being excommunicated means that you lose your privileges to be
able to do those, and you lose your member records.
You're no longer a member of the church. To become

(54:32):
a member again, you would have to repent, go through
the process, be re baptized.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
These rules that you've been describing as to me, do
they apply differently or they applied differently to somebody who
has joined the church later in life as opposed to
somebody like you who has always been.

Speaker 7 (54:48):
In the church.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Jersey Foundations, is there as purtis one.

Speaker 6 (54:53):
Of a world demands or if you know, okay, d
so if I understand you, they do they apply to
differently depending on how long you've been in the church, right,
whether or not you've converted later on in lot. No,
they apply the same to every person.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
So in this purpose, this issue of excommunication, what is that?
What if?

Speaker 6 (55:13):
What is that excommunications of It's where you lose your Basically,
your names are taken off the records of the church.
You're no longer a member of the church. So you
can still come to church, but in order to become
a member again, you have to go through a repentance process.

(55:34):
Stop doing what you're doing, you know, repentance between you
and the Lord, and there's different steps that you have
to go through that and then in order to be
in order to come back to the church, you need
to be re baptized to the church.

Speaker 7 (55:48):
This repentance process of it.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
And again, in your knowledge, does it mean that, for example,
you can engage in sexual intercourse today, go to repent tomorrow,
engage in sexual enforse tomorrow, repent tomorrow and keep doing that?
Is that what this is what we're talking about? Or
is it something different from that?

Speaker 3 (56:04):
No?

Speaker 6 (56:05):
I mean, uh, you would have to give up that
sin completely. It's something you would have to change in yourself.
You can't uh I y, No, you would not be
able to do that.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
So, for example, if the defendant were engaged in sexual
intercourse and it was outside of marriage, would she potentially
face the ex communications.

Speaker 12 (56:27):
She would or in a church objerition and culture speculation
and assial testimony sustain disprased.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Now you're familiar with the process, aren't you?

Speaker 6 (56:37):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (56:37):
Does it apply in everybody?

Speaker 6 (56:39):
It does?

Speaker 1 (56:40):
And how long have you been school in the practice
as as to what they say ex communication?

Speaker 6 (56:48):
J Ever? Since you know, we were we were taught
as children the things right and wrong, the commandments, of God.
You know, we're taught to obey and we we know
and and I was born in the church though, I
mean since I was a childhood been taught the thing.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
So if an individual, for example, is a female and
engages in sexual intercourse, are they subject to the same
sanction i e. Excommunication. Yes, So gender has nothing to
do with whether or not there's.

Speaker 6 (57:15):
Any be punishment for this, right, that's correct.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
So it isn't so if two people then engage in
as an act of sexual intercourse, they're in their independently
right right. The issue of repenting, how do they repent?

Speaker 7 (57:35):
How does somebody repent in a Mormon church?

Speaker 1 (57:37):
I mean you may have.

Speaker 7 (57:37):
Mentioned something about a bishop.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Explain to me what we're talking about there.

Speaker 6 (57:41):
Okay, you know to repent of this, and you need
to take certain steps confession, you need to stop doing it.
You need to usually sacrifice or give something up. So
every Sunday we if you're in good standing, you can
partake of the sacrament. And so you yourself wouldn't want to,

(58:09):
uh decide, like an individual can't decide exactly what steps
they have to go through. It's they have to go
to a bishop, which is the church Uh, the the
leader of the congregation of each ward. It's a congregation.
They have to go to the bishop confess their sin.
The bishop is you know, uh, a volunteer, you know,

(58:32):
someone who's called of of we believe with he's called
of God and has inspiration from God to help them
work through their repentance process. So if they need if
they have an addiction or you know, they need help,
they need to seek professional counseling or something, they will

(58:52):
help them get into that. But it's a very what's
the word. It's very private that you know, the bishop
does not talk about what they've done with anyone else.
It's very Yeah, so that's say the bishop.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Alright, now, So.

Speaker 7 (59:11):
You then had this third day with mister Alexander.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
After that you you indicated.

Speaker 6 (59:16):
That you continue to communicate with him, right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
And what was the methods that you guys communicated the moon.

Speaker 6 (59:24):
Yeah, just just like friends like s through their phone text.
I would hear from him almost every day through a
phone call, a text, I would or see him or
an email. He was very interested in becoming good friends
and so he was working on that and and I
had a good time with him, and I was having
fun so you know it wasn't anything.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Is there come a time that he asks you to
go somewhere?

Speaker 6 (59:48):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (59:50):
And where is it that he asks you to go?

Speaker 6 (59:53):
He asked me to go to Cancun with him. He
won a trip alright, When you.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Say you want a trip, what do you win the trip? Within?

Speaker 6 (59:59):
Through work?

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Do you know who you work for?

Speaker 6 (01:00:02):
I don't? Mmm?

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
So he when's this tripe? And he asked you to
go with him?

Speaker 13 (01:00:06):
When?

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Did he ask you to.

Speaker 6 (01:00:08):
Go with him in May?

Speaker 7 (01:00:11):
Some at some time in May two thousand and eight?

Speaker 6 (01:00:14):
Yes, two thousand eight.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
But you've totally now or before that if you really
didn't like him, you weren't any sparks there.

Speaker 7 (01:00:23):
Did you agree to go with him? Yes, immediately when
he asked you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Or not?

Speaker 6 (01:00:28):
Well, when he first asked me, I told him I
wanted to think about it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:00:32):
I was concerned, just because I knew he did like
me a little bit more than I liked him, you know,
I I was just friends. But also he let me
know that we would be staying with the family, an
LDS family, and I would be sharing a room with
one of their daughters, a little girl. And it was

(01:00:53):
at a place where I had been to several times before,
so I felt comfortable. I knew Travis, and I knew myself.
I knew nothing, you know, would it happened? Plus he
told me that it was free, Everything was free, so
at after I thought about it for a while, I
agreed to go cause it sounded like a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
So how much time it laughed between the time that
he asked you in the time that you said, yeah,
I'll go with you?

Speaker 6 (01:01:17):
Probably just a couple of days.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
And generally do you have any idea when that would
have been? I know you said May, but m.

Speaker 6 (01:01:24):
You were you could rEFInd it a little bit more
beginning of May. I don't know exactly what day.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
And did you then continued having more or less contact
with him or just continue having contact as before? Where
you would you either call.

Speaker 7 (01:01:39):
You or you'd see him?

Speaker 6 (01:01:41):
Yeah, I mean we would see each other at church.
We went on a church camp out for the singles word.
We went on a camp out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Where did you go for this camp out?

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (01:01:49):
And it was up near Payson?

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
And did try this stuff?

Speaker 6 (01:01:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 14 (01:01:54):
And uh?

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Do you know if he went with anybody or just
a bunch of singles, just a bunch.

Speaker 6 (01:01:58):
Of singles was that that me s a separate Chris?

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Uh? Yeah, yeah, And I gotta ask you guess about
the sleeping arrangements. Did everybody sleep in the girls.

Speaker 6 (01:02:09):
And guys were separated? Yeah, so girls had cabins, guys
slept outside, either in tents or there was a platform
where they could.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
And during that time, how long were you in mister
Alexander's presence, in other words, that he was around.

Speaker 6 (01:02:23):
You during the camp out?

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Yeah? How long was the camp out?

Speaker 6 (01:02:26):
Uh? That was just uh like a night in the day,
so like a Friday night, and we hung out Saturday,
drove home Saturday.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
And was there ever any indication that mister Alexander was
involved with any of the women there, chasing them around
or anything like that. No, Uh, therever any indication that
he was saying any inappropriate to any women there. No,
So the the time for the trip approaches correct, Yes,

(01:02:54):
And did you continue to have contact with him? U?

Speaker 6 (01:02:58):
Yes, up and until about a week before we found him. Uh,
I spoke And do you have.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
An idea about a date that you actually was about
the last time that you talked to.

Speaker 6 (01:03:09):
It would have been so so we found him on
June ninth, the evening of June ninth, and uh, I
I remember seeing him last the Monday before that, which
would have been the second okay, so a.

Speaker 7 (01:03:22):
Week before you saw him?

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
And after that did he continue to email you or not?
Or did he just go silent?

Speaker 6 (01:03:28):
You just went silent?

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
So the trip is approaching and you're not hearing from him.

Speaker 6 (01:03:34):
Uh?

Speaker 7 (01:03:34):
Do you do something.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
On July ninth? June ninth, I'm sorry?

Speaker 6 (01:03:38):
June night?

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Correct, Yanks.

Speaker 6 (01:03:39):
So I went to our family who made me a
group with normal Is this the singles group?

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
Again?

Speaker 6 (01:03:45):
Yes? Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
And what bo? What time did that start?

Speaker 6 (01:03:49):
Seven thirty?

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
And how long did the last?

Speaker 6 (01:03:53):
About til eight thirty?

Speaker 7 (01:03:55):
And then what did you do?

Speaker 6 (01:03:56):
Uh? A friend of mine had just had surgery, so
I I uh went to visit with her. In the meantime,
I had tried calling and texting him cause I didn't
see him at church on Sunday. We were supposed to
go on this trip the next day and I hadn't
heard from him, so I texted him. He didn't respond,
and then he wasn't at at the family home evening group.

(01:04:17):
So I started to become worried and decided after I
visited my friend that I would go to his house, okay?

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
And did you go to his house?

Speaker 6 (01:04:26):
Yes? On the way to his house, I started getting
really worried because I called and I went straight to voicemail.
I called and had my mom on the other line,
just because I was I was scared that something might
be happening to him because I knew that he had
a stalker.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
So at least you BLI even had heard he had
a stalker.

Speaker 6 (01:04:48):
Correct, Yeah, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Yeah, And so you weren't fraying when you went over
and that's why you had your mom.

Speaker 15 (01:04:54):
On the one.

Speaker 6 (01:04:55):
Yeah, I had suspicions that something.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Right, what's going on? So you had suspicions? So what happened? About?

Speaker 6 (01:05:01):
What time do you get over there? U, This would
probably be right around nine nine thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Alright, and explain to me what happens when you get there.

Speaker 6 (01:05:15):
I pulled up and there was a car in the driveway.
I didn't know whose car it was. There was a
light on upstairs, and I went to the door and
knocked on it. Nobody answered. The dog jumped up on
the door and look, do.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
You know what the dog's name?

Speaker 6 (01:05:31):
Napoleon?

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
And what is the color of the dot?

Speaker 6 (01:05:34):
The color? Yeah, white and black?

Speaker 7 (01:05:37):
Alright, is that a bigger or smaller?

Speaker 6 (01:05:40):
It's just a tiny little dog.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Alright, And so this this dog is there, Explain to
me what the dog's doing when you're knocking on the dogs?

Speaker 6 (01:05:46):
He uh looked really upset and he was jumping at
the door and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Barking, And uh, how long were you there trying to
get into the house?

Speaker 6 (01:05:56):
Just you know, a couple of minutes. I being on
the door, ring the door bell over and over again,
and nobody answered. So my my mom and my sister
were on the other line with me, and my sister
suggested I called somebody that Travis knew to see if
they had seen him around.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
And who's this person that was suggested to you? Well?

Speaker 6 (01:06:16):
Just she just suggested I call a friend. So I
called Michelle Lowry and a friend of Travis's and a
mutual friend of ours.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
All right, so you call Michelle and you and she
agreed on how to proceed.

Speaker 6 (01:06:30):
Yeah, So she decided to call Travis's her best friend,
which was her ex boyfriend, and I ran home because
I lived really close by to see if he had
emailed me or Facebook messaged me. No, he had not.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
What did you do?

Speaker 6 (01:06:51):
I tried to send him a message. I later found
out that it went to the wrong Travis, but I
tried to send him a message on.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Him and he went home and did that.

Speaker 6 (01:07:00):
That what happened, okay, And so then at that point,
uh Michelle and I went and met at his house again.
Uh Michelle brought her boyfriend and and she was on
the other line with Travis's best friend and he and
so her her boyfriend went and knocked on the door again,

(01:07:22):
ringing the doorbell. I mean, he was pounding on the door.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
And when this was going on, what was the doctor.

Speaker 6 (01:07:28):
Uh a barking at the door?

Speaker 7 (01:07:30):
Alright, and how long did this go on?

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Was pounding with.

Speaker 6 (01:07:33):
Bang a minute or two?

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Were you able to see from the outside whether or
not any lights were on inside it?

Speaker 6 (01:07:40):
It was the same as when I had drove up
the first time, So there was a light on upstairs,
that same car was in the driveway.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Alright. Then what happened?

Speaker 6 (01:07:51):
So his friend, uh the the uh Travis's friend on
the phone suggested that we go in through the garage
and look for him in the house. And he had
the garage code.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
So you give the person on the phone that that
who was talking to Michelle was talking to that Michelle
was talking to had the garage access.

Speaker 6 (01:08:10):
Coming, yes, and that was getting to the shop. Yes,
So what happens? Then we opened the garage and uh,
his car and bike bike were there?

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
What kind of car.

Speaker 6 (01:08:26):
A Prius?

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Then what happened?

Speaker 16 (01:08:31):
I'm sorry?

Speaker 6 (01:08:43):
So we went into the house. Kay, through through the
garage tour and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
What is the first room that you came to?

Speaker 6 (01:08:53):
The the laundry room. There was a washroom driver right
to our right.

Speaker 7 (01:08:56):
Did any of you look at those that all.

Speaker 6 (01:08:58):
That and just just noticed that it was a washroom dryer.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
That means you're walking in straight? So does it right? Right?
And then where did you go? Left or right? Left?

Speaker 7 (01:09:08):
What happened?

Speaker 6 (01:09:08):
Then? His office was so after we turned left, his
office was up to on the right hand side and
the door was shut. And the friend on the other line, uh,
suggested that we opened the door. So we opened the
door slowly. The light was out, but his laptop was
on his desk. It was open, but like in a

(01:09:29):
sleep mode, the little light on it was flashing. Kay.
What happened?

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Then?

Speaker 6 (01:09:37):
M there was a bathroom on the left side, and
I looked inside the bathroom and checked inside the shower
to make sure no one was hiding in the shower, and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
Did you find anything? No, where did you guys go
after that?

Speaker 6 (01:09:50):
We went straight, uh, which led us into a like
family area. There's a family room area, a kitchen, and
there was a vacuum cleaner right in the middle of
the floor.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Any and do you did you see whether or not
it was plugged in or it was just in the
middle of the floor.

Speaker 6 (01:10:08):
It was just in the middle of the floor.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Just what happened?

Speaker 7 (01:10:11):
Then? Well, at this point, is a dog with you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
Guys now or the dogs?

Speaker 6 (01:10:15):
Yeah? The dog like came up to us and had
run back and forth. I you know, when we first
walked in and smelled really bad and so I seemed
that the dog had an accident or something. And uh,
so he was, you know, the dog was with us. Okay,
Then what happened? Then we went up the stairs. No,

(01:10:38):
so we you know, picked our head into the other room,
which was it was all pretty open and no one
was in the front room. So we went up the
stairs in his bedroom.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Is that you're as you're going upstairs, did you notice
whether or not there was any odor?

Speaker 6 (01:10:51):
Just y, Yeah, I mean it just was throughout the
whole house. I noticed it when we first walked into
the house. That's when I end ups it, and then
it was always there.

Speaker 7 (01:11:00):
So okay, and then walking up the stairs.

Speaker 6 (01:11:03):
What happens? So we walked up the stairs and the
the way that the house was set. At the very
top of the stairs to the left was his bedroom
door and it was a double door type of thing,
but it was shut and it was locked. We tried
to go in there, but it was locked.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Did you guys knock at that door? True?

Speaker 10 (01:11:22):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (01:11:22):
Yeah, yeah, we knocked on the door.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
How did you know?

Speaker 6 (01:11:25):
That was his room? From the the uh book and
film club that we had. The movie theater is just
right there, so his bedroom was there. Movie theaters there
and he had when we were all there, he'd show
his room alright.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
Then that so now you you're at this door, it's locked.

Speaker 7 (01:11:44):
What do you guys do?

Speaker 6 (01:11:47):
The uh boyfriend of my friend Michelle was there and
he heard music and we went over to the door. Well,
he went over to the door where there was music
coming out. It was a different bedroom in the house,
and he knocked on the door and a roommate came out.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
And what happened then?

Speaker 6 (01:12:07):
We told him that we couldn't find Travis. We were worried.
He found a key to his bedroom and he and
the boyfriend went into the bedroom.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
About what time was this now, mm?

Speaker 6 (01:12:20):
Probably around ten, right?

Speaker 7 (01:12:22):
Did you go into that bedroom where they went in
or not?

Speaker 6 (01:12:25):
No? Uh, Michelle and I stayed outside of the bedroom.
I at first they walked in and they were looking,
so they were right in front of us, and they
were looking kind of this way, and uh so at
first I was following their gaze through the crack of
the door, cause I could see the room through the

(01:12:45):
crack of the door. And then as soon as they
said that they saw blood, that there's blood everywhere, I
stopped looking. And and then they went further into the room.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
And did they eventually come out or was a short
stint inside time?

Speaker 6 (01:13:02):
It didn't seem very long. They went in, and then
the roommate was ran out and said he's dead. He's dead.
And so immediately I called the police and ran downstairs
and out the front door so that I could get
the address of the house. All right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
After this, was there some sort of service for mister
Alexander here in the mas area.

Speaker 6 (01:13:25):
Yeah, just a few days later, there was a memorial
service for you.

Speaker 7 (01:13:28):
You remember what day of the week it was?

Speaker 6 (01:13:31):
It w it I don't remember exactly. It would have
been a Thursday, I I would assume, cause this was
a Monday night, so Wednesday Thursday. When when I.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
Asked about a memorial services, was the body they evern
off the memorial service? No? No, it was just a
just a memorial service. But yeah, And where was.

Speaker 7 (01:13:52):
The this uh service held?

Speaker 6 (01:13:55):
This was at the church building where we went to
church every Sunday. And makes it is it's off uh
A Guadalupe and the two or two area.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
And while you were there, Well, when did it start?
What time?

Speaker 6 (01:14:14):
I don't remember exactly in the evening seven sixth seven o'clock.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
And were there a lot of people there? Just give
a yes you're called.

Speaker 6 (01:14:22):
Yes, there were a lot peo.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
And of all the people that were there, was there
somebody by the name of Judy Areas?

Speaker 6 (01:14:28):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
And is the person that union was Judy Area? Is is
she in court today?

Speaker 6 (01:14:33):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
Tell me where she? Do you see it? And what
she is worn?

Speaker 6 (01:14:37):
She's seated over there at the end of the table
and I can't see her clearly, but she's wearing black
and she can't start care.

Speaker 7 (01:14:43):
Is she at the extreme end?

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
Yes, your owner made the record reflect the identification of
the defendant. Yes, so you see the defendant there, and
do you go up to her or does she go
up to you?

Speaker 6 (01:14:56):
She came up to me and introduced herself to what
did she shut it? She said, are you MEI hall
that I go by Mimi Sorr And I said yes,
and she and she introduced herself with Jody.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
Aires And did she say anything else?

Speaker 6 (01:15:15):
I asked her how she was doing, and she said
she was upset, and so that was about it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
Though anytime, did at anytime she say I'm a person
who killed him or anything like that. M Did she
ever tell you why she was there? No, I don't
have anything else.

Speaker 6 (01:15:30):
Thank you, cross examination, Thank you Jarn.

Speaker 11 (01:15:41):
Definitely in this hall, we want to begin.

Speaker 12 (01:15:46):
If I heard correctly when you were talking to counselor
for the state, you advised to me.

Speaker 11 (01:15:53):
You were thirty three years old, right, yes, okay?

Speaker 12 (01:15:57):
And if I also heard you correctly, you said you
were I believe.

Speaker 11 (01:16:01):
The phrase you use was born into the church. That's correct,
and that's the Church of Jesus Christ the Latter day Saints.

Speaker 12 (01:16:11):
Correct, Yes, and you went to Brigham on the University. Yes,
and that is a institution supported by that church.

Speaker 11 (01:16:22):
Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (01:16:23):
That is correct.

Speaker 12 (01:16:26):
What I wanted to do to begin with is to
talk to you a little bit about.

Speaker 11 (01:16:32):
The state.

Speaker 12 (01:16:32):
Asked you a little bit about the structure of the church,
the repentance process, everything of that nature. I kind of
want to talk a little bit about that first of all. Okay, okay, okay.
You mentioned to us that they were various wars that
the church is broken down to.

Speaker 11 (01:16:50):
Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (01:16:51):
Various wars?

Speaker 11 (01:16:52):
Yes? I'm sorry.

Speaker 12 (01:16:54):
Yes, the mic is low and I'm tall, so if
you have trouble hear me, please let me know.

Speaker 6 (01:17:00):
That's correct?

Speaker 11 (01:17:00):
Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:17:02):
And you said that those are geographical boundaries that determine
a particular war, right, yes, okay. And I believe what
you also told us was that you weren't aware of
how those boundaries were drawn, not exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:17:17):
I just know that it's for convenience sake, and they
try to get, you know, the boundaries done so that
you can get to a ward that's close by to you.

Speaker 11 (01:17:27):
Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:17:28):
And do you know if any ward boundaries overlap at all?
Do you have any knowledge of that.

Speaker 6 (01:17:34):
Some times. Yeah, I've heard of that, okay.

Speaker 12 (01:17:38):
And are there does each ward contain one church or
does sometimes words contain more than one church?

Speaker 6 (01:17:48):
Do you mean like a building, a ward building?

Speaker 12 (01:17:51):
Yeah, a church of services?

Speaker 6 (01:17:53):
Yeah, so you have church buildings and usually you will
have up to three, maybe maybe maybe five wards will
meet there every Sunday.

Speaker 11 (01:18:03):
And I'm sorry I didn't hear you.

Speaker 6 (01:18:05):
So yes, each church building, several wards will meet there
every Sunday. So they're divided into three hour service blocks, okay.
And so you know, some award will start at eight
o'clock and go to eleven. Another ward will come in
from eleven thirty to you know, and so on so
throughout the.

Speaker 11 (01:18:26):
Day, I see.

Speaker 9 (01:18:27):
Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:18:28):
And when you talk about your wards, where you talked
about single family ward and I believe you told us
that the year where you cross over to that is
thirty one years old from you moved to a single to
a family.

Speaker 6 (01:18:41):
Yes, that's right, okay.

Speaker 12 (01:18:43):
And so the wards aren't necessarily tied to a particular church,
they're just tied to that particular area.

Speaker 11 (01:18:49):
Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (01:18:52):
The single I don't I guess I don't understand.

Speaker 12 (01:18:54):
Your question, okay, And maybe maybe I didn't phrase it
very well. But the the wards aren't tied to maybe
one particular church within that ward.

Speaker 11 (01:19:04):
It could be it's a bigger area. I guess that's
my point.

Speaker 6 (01:19:09):
The word building, Yeah, so is you know, you'll have
different so the word building isn't tied to one single
ward boundary. So you'll have different wards within a geographical area.
And the so you'll have maybe I don't know, you'll

(01:19:30):
have several wards within what we call a steak. And
so so that's how the church is kind of set up.
So you have an individual ward, but throughout the entire church,
you know, you're you have stakes, and then you have regions,
and then you have you know, different countries and so
all the way through the whole church.

Speaker 12 (01:19:48):
And did you say, just so I want to make
did you say steaks or stakes?

Speaker 6 (01:19:52):
Steaks like st.

Speaker 12 (01:19:55):
And that is a stake in your church is more
than one ward.

Speaker 7 (01:20:00):
It's a group of collection awards, right, all right.

Speaker 12 (01:20:05):
When you started talking with mister Martinez about uh, he
asked you about the repentents process and excommunication, you would
call that discussion. Yes, okay, let me ask you that.
Let me begin by asking you this because we've talked
a little bit about wards. Is there one particular person

(01:20:27):
that's in charge of award or is there several?

Speaker 6 (01:20:32):
So you have a bishop who's who's basically in charge
of the spiritual temporal well being of an award of
a congregation. Okay, And then like I said earlier, you
have several wards within a stake. Then you have a
stake president who's kind of overall of the awards, who,

(01:20:53):
you know, make sure that the bishops are able to
meet the needs of the individual award members. And there
are other callings within the church. So you have a
relief Society, which is an organization for sisters in the
wards and so on. So they just it's just set
up so that people's needs are being met spiritually and temporarily.

(01:21:16):
And we have a bishop in a state president.

Speaker 12 (01:21:18):
All right, thank you, now if I understood you correctly.
As well, if one of and I don't even know
members of the ward, that be the correct term, or
is it okay, one of the members of the ward
were to do something that was sanctionable or sin or
whatever words you want to put on it, uh, the

(01:21:41):
and forgive me if I'm using the wrong word. The
punishment would be decided upon by that bishop.

Speaker 11 (01:21:48):
Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (01:21:51):
Yes, yeah, it depends on you know, the sin what
exactly happens. Sometimes they go to a so like the
bishop will determine if they need to meet with a
disciplinary counsel, which might be held of like it might
be the bishop and his counselors, or it might be

(01:22:11):
even the state president their counselors, things like that. But
but yes, the individual and the bishop meet together and decide.
You know, they kind of work together through the repentance process.
He's someone who's very loving and open and helpful and
you know, there to help out.

Speaker 12 (01:22:31):
So okay, so you say loving and helpful. It's not
in your mind anyway an act of condemnation that the
bishop would would put upon a person who's who said that.

Speaker 6 (01:22:44):
They seem no, they you know, the the judging, you know,
they kind of they kind of act as far as
like what needs to be done. They help determine, you know,
what the repentance process steps would be. But the ultimately

(01:23:06):
the judging is between you know, God and the individual
and their own repentance. You know, they and where their
heart is and what they you know, I've never I
don't know, uh, you know, the exact intricate details of it.
I haven't had to go into that, and I haven't
really talked to anybody who has gone through that.

Speaker 12 (01:23:28):
So about that, Okay, if I understand you correctly, then
the way you phrased it that that ultimately in your church,
God would be the ultimate judge of the sin, but
the bishop would detail out a repentance process. Yeah, okay,

(01:23:50):
all right now. And you may have already alluded to
you kind of mentioned you didn't know the details of this.
But if if someone in the church had sinned and
and another member knew about it, would they be obligated
to tell the bishop?

Speaker 11 (01:24:08):
How would that?

Speaker 6 (01:24:09):
How would that work if it were something that we're uh,
you know, putting someone in danger, you know, if it
if like, let's say it was abuse or something, Yeah,
I would feel like you that person would be obligated
to tell somebody what was happening. But it's it's if

(01:24:33):
you know, it's up to the individual to go in
and talk to the bishop. If it's blatant and open,
usually the bishop will probably call them in and asked
to talk to them. Uh uh, But yeah, it's it's
between the individual and it's up to them, you know
where when they feel like they need to repent, to
go and make an appointment with their bishop.

Speaker 12 (01:24:55):
Okay, So if someone is sinning and nobody else knows
about it, they probably the bishop wouldn't necessarily have a
mechanism to find out unless that person show that the
person who was committing this sin chose to go address
it with their bishop. Is that Is that what you're
telling me.

Speaker 6 (01:25:13):
I'm saying, Can you say that again? Oh?

Speaker 11 (01:25:15):
Probably not, but.

Speaker 12 (01:25:19):
It would be the obligation really, because there's no there's
no mechanism in place. For example, you said, well, if
somebody's safety was in jeopardy, you might felt feel compelled
to talk to.

Speaker 6 (01:25:29):
Your bishop, right, yeah, or an authority figure, yeah, like
a police officer or something.

Speaker 12 (01:25:35):
But I guess what I'm saying, and it sounds to
me like in your church, if somebody was sinning, it
would be incumbent upon them to they would be expected,
perhaps to go talk to the bishop.

Speaker 11 (01:25:48):
That they're the ones they're supposed to deal with that,
not anyone else.

Speaker 6 (01:25:52):
Yeah. I mean that's what true repentance is is if
someone feels bad about what they're doing and they want
to stop, they will make that call. They'll you know,
get on their knees, repent, go and talk to the bishop,
and go start the repentance process. I can't just say
I'm sorry, I won't do this again, you know. If
it's a serious sin, they can't just say, Okay, I'm

(01:26:13):
never gonna do this again. I'm fine, you know, and
then tomorrow I'll do it again. You know. It's that's
not truly repenting, if that makes sense. Repenting is changing
your ways.

Speaker 12 (01:26:24):
Okay, let me ask you, because you've talked about you
just mentioned the seriousness of a sin.

Speaker 11 (01:26:32):
How serious within.

Speaker 12 (01:26:33):
The scope of your church or the dictates of your church?

Speaker 11 (01:26:36):
Is the sin of premarial sex.

Speaker 6 (01:26:39):
It's very serious. Like I said before, you can be
excommunicated for it. I mean, so you have.

Speaker 11 (01:26:53):
Let me ask you this way.

Speaker 12 (01:26:54):
Is there a list, is there a hierarchy, or is
it just very serious?

Speaker 6 (01:26:59):
Okay, Well, there's the scriptures that you know that teach
us that the most the most severe sin would be
to deny the Holy Ghost and to commit murder. Next
in mine would be fornication, adultery, sexual immorality. Okay, that's
very serious.

Speaker 12 (01:27:19):
Number two or three on the number three on the list. Yeah,
you told us, right, Okay, that makes that makes sense.
So it's really high up there.

Speaker 11 (01:27:25):
It's a big deal.

Speaker 12 (01:27:26):
Okay, and like you said, that could lead to excommunication
if someone found out.

Speaker 11 (01:27:30):
Correct.

Speaker 12 (01:27:30):
Okay, let me kind of step back a bit, and
I want to ask you about a few phrases or
things prominent.

Speaker 11 (01:27:42):
In your church. Could you describe for us what the
term temple worthy.

Speaker 6 (01:27:47):
Means someone who holds the temple recommends. So that means
they've gone to their bishop and gone through an interview
and also to the state president and had an interview
with them. And there's a series of questions, which questions
are just to want, like to find out if they're
obeying the commandments of God. So you know, and and

(01:28:11):
you know, our active members in the church, they show
up to church on Sunday, they partake of the sacrament,
they are repenting when they you know, make mistakes, they
are serving in their calling. So it's it's just to
see their level basically of commitment to the Lord in
their church service and worship.

Speaker 12 (01:28:34):
Okay, to your knowledge, was Travis Alexander temple worthy for
your church?

Speaker 6 (01:28:41):
I didn't know whether or not he was.

Speaker 12 (01:28:43):
Okay, let me ask you about the term priesthood holder.
What does that mean in your church?

Speaker 6 (01:28:48):
So, priestood holder is basically so at the age of twelve,
uh y y, a young boy receives the priesthood. So
and there's different levels of priesthood power and keys, but
it's it's essentially somebody that holds the power to give blessings.

(01:29:12):
It's power ordained to them through God, Okay. And so
so in order to have that, it's, you know, you
have to make sure you are maintaining a worthy, clean,
pure lifestyle. And it's it's essentially it's a way to

(01:29:32):
serve people in the church by giving blessings of healing,
of comfort and so on. And and they also bless
the uh sacrament with it and they use that also
in the temple.

Speaker 12 (01:29:46):
Okay A And and you said boys are do women
become priesthood holders in your church? And to your knowledge, uh,
was mister Alexander preesit holder?

Speaker 6 (01:30:02):
I thought he was so yeah. I don't know for
sure though, I thought he was.

Speaker 11 (01:30:08):
Okay, And what do you base that knowledge.

Speaker 6 (01:30:10):
On the fact that he was going to church. I
hadn't ever heard he had been excommunicated. When you're excommunicated
if you're a man, you lose your priested power, okay,
And so so I assumed since he was an active
member of the church, he was also a worthy priestood.

Speaker 11 (01:30:29):
Holder, Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:30:31):
And it sounds to me like you would have assumed
that because no one knew or no one knew of
him committing any of the sins that would lead to
any sanctions, right right, okay? And based on what you
said before, it sounds to me like if someone committed
one of those again, the sin of pre marital sex,

(01:30:54):
they would lose their temple worthy status and their status
as a priestit holder.

Speaker 1 (01:30:58):
Is that right? Right? Yeah?

Speaker 15 (01:31:00):
Typically okay, I wanna talk to you now a little
bit about uh, mister Alexander himself and in your relationship
with him.

Speaker 11 (01:31:16):
Okay, okay. Uh. In a moment, Judge.

Speaker 14 (01:31:23):
M an Coming approached name and do you for the
record a uh copy.

Speaker 17 (01:31:37):
Uh Exhibit two fifty four just for the record, and
it's all there's a andy that do you recall.

Speaker 11 (01:31:51):
Some time ago?

Speaker 12 (01:31:52):
And uh, I certainly couldn't recall the exact day if
that you and I sat down and had a conversation
about your relationship with mister Alexander.

Speaker 6 (01:32:00):
I don't remember the exact date. We guess you and
mister Martinez.

Speaker 11 (01:32:03):
Were there, Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:32:05):
I just wanted to just talk to you about some
of those things, and if you have trouble kind of
remembering some of the things you said, I've put that
exhibit there just to so you.

Speaker 11 (01:32:12):
Could refresh your recollection if need be.

Speaker 6 (01:32:14):
Okay, Okay, do we so this is a transcript of
the recording that you yes, me, yes, it is.

Speaker 9 (01:32:23):
Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:32:25):
One of the things you told us that day was
that you said you knew Travis for about a year
at the time before his death.

Speaker 11 (01:32:35):
Is that about right?

Speaker 6 (01:32:36):
I knew who he was when I moved into the
ward in about July or August everything, And so the
first Sunday I went there, he gave it a talk interest,
so I knew who he was, but we didn't officially
meet until later, okay.

Speaker 11 (01:32:53):
And do you remember how old you were when you
moved into the ward.

Speaker 6 (01:33:00):
That would have been almost five years five and a
half years ago, I guess.

Speaker 11 (01:33:06):
So, okay, all right, And one of the things.

Speaker 12 (01:33:16):
I believe you told us then and what you told
mister Martinez this afternoon was that, And ma'am, I'll just
ask you questions if you need to refer back.

Speaker 11 (01:33:25):
Go ahead and let me know, okay.

Speaker 12 (01:33:28):
That you two, you and mister Alexander began dating in
February two thousand and eight, correct, That would And that
was an approximate time. I'm not holding to you a
specific date, okay. And those dates in February two thousand
and eight, those were the dates that you described to

(01:33:49):
mister Martinez a few moments ago.

Speaker 6 (01:33:51):
Is that right? Yeah? An approximation?

Speaker 11 (01:33:54):
What's that?

Speaker 6 (01:33:55):
Yes? They were an approximation, okay, all right, And it
sounded to me, and I.

Speaker 12 (01:34:04):
Got a little confusing, And I understand time frames aren't
going to be exact this many years ago, but it
sounded to me like after those dates you began dating
someone else.

Speaker 1 (01:34:14):
Correct, So it would have been.

Speaker 6 (01:34:18):
After the first date from what I remember, okay, we
I then began dating someone else. And so again time
for the exact time, I don't remember other than you know,
ask estimating.

Speaker 11 (01:34:31):
Okay, right, And and that's and that's fair.

Speaker 12 (01:34:34):
So we're talking February March is of two thousand and eight,
when when this was occurring?

Speaker 11 (01:34:38):
Is that correct?

Speaker 9 (01:34:39):
Okay?

Speaker 12 (01:34:41):
And if I if I understand you understood you correctly.
After that first date with mister Alexander, you didn't have
any romantic interests credits.

Speaker 6 (01:34:52):
That's great, okay.

Speaker 12 (01:34:56):
And after this period of time you went on this date,
you then began dating another individual for a few weeks
I think, is that correct?

Speaker 11 (01:35:06):
Okay?

Speaker 12 (01:35:07):
And mister Alexander had asked you out in a period
of time when you were dating this.

Speaker 11 (01:35:12):
Under other individual. Is that accurate?

Speaker 6 (01:35:15):
Yeah? I believe. I remember that he tried asking me
out and I let him know that I was dating
someone else.

Speaker 11 (01:35:21):
Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:35:24):
When that period of dating ended with this other individual,
not with Travis, but this other individual, it.

Speaker 11 (01:35:33):
Sounds to me like you went on other dates with Travis.
Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (01:35:38):
Yes? I remember going on two more dates with him afterwards, okay.

Speaker 12 (01:35:43):
And was that the rock climbing wall that you were
talking to mister Martinez about or was that something else?

Speaker 11 (01:35:48):
Okay? Okay? And when.

Speaker 12 (01:35:56):
If you could tell us perhaps in relations and the
the last date you went on with mister Alexander was
to the rock climbing wall, was that right?

Speaker 6 (01:36:05):
It's at the last one, yeah, okay.

Speaker 12 (01:36:10):
With that, And I'm not holding you to a specific
date here, but was there do you remember how longer?
How much time elapsed? Before between that last date and
his asking you to.

Speaker 6 (01:36:23):
Go to campcome, not exactly. I don't remember the exact time.

Speaker 7 (01:36:27):
Two weeks, three weeks.

Speaker 6 (01:36:29):
I would I would think it would have been in March,
maybe April, the beginning of April when we went rock climbing,
and then he asked me to go with him in Cancun,
I believe sometime in May, at the beginning of May. Okay,
So again I don't remember the exact day when that happened.

Speaker 12 (01:36:48):
In between your date at the rock climbing wall and
your trip to camp or you're him asking you to
go to camp and excuse me, did he ask you
out other times?

Speaker 6 (01:37:04):
Yeah? I had to let him know that we would
just be friends, that I wasn't interested in going out
with him anymore, okay, so that I just wanted to
be friends. So he might have asked me out one
other time and I let him know, you know that, no,
we're I don't really have any interest, you know, I
just want to be friends. Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:37:22):
And this was after the rock climbing wall that you
kind of gave him the friends talk, right, yeah, okay,
And then it was some time after you told him
you just wanted to be friends. That he asked you
to go to Cancun, right, okay? And I remember you
told me, mister Martinez that you didn't say.

Speaker 11 (01:37:42):
Yes right away. You thought about it for a few days, right, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:37:46):
I remember thinking about it and asking my mom, you know,
if it was a good idea, and coming to the
conclusion that, you know, since he wasn't paying for any
of it, that it was a place that I'd been
to with my own family and felt very comfortable with
this place. I knew how fun it was, and the
fact that we were going with the family and we
were saying in totally separate rooms. I felt very comfortable

(01:38:08):
going with my friend. Can't get.

Speaker 11 (01:38:12):
Did you?

Speaker 12 (01:38:13):
And I get the sense from the fact that you
didn't accept right away that you might have been surprised
by his asking you to go to I mean, it's
a difference to go to a rock climbing wall in
town to go to campoon, right, I mean, was that
a bit of a surprise to you?

Speaker 6 (01:38:29):
Well, at that point, we were, you know, closer friends
at that point. You know, we've so given him the
friend talk. I was always very upfront direct with Travis.
He knew that we were just friends. I'm he's a
persistent guy, and I think part of him still hoped
maybe that I would end up liking him. So I

(01:38:53):
initially thought that that's why he was trying to get
me to like him, you know, to go with him
to King But you know, again, I gave him the
you know, we're just friends, you know. S just tried
to make sure sure everything was on the same level,
like he understood where I was at, and he did,

(01:39:14):
and he was really respectful of that and still wanted
me to go with him to Cancut.

Speaker 12 (01:39:19):
And so just and I think you said of it,
this is part of going to Cancun. You kind of
reinitiated your uh statements or your feelings that you just
wanted to be friends. You wanted to clarify with him, just.

Speaker 11 (01:39:32):
To make sure.

Speaker 6 (01:39:33):
Yeah, And even a few weeks before, like uh, before
we went uh again, I told him, Travis, maybe you
should take somebody else to Cancun with you, And there
wasn't anyone else that he wanted to take.

Speaker 12 (01:39:49):
So, okay, wasn't anyone else he wanted to take. I'm
just wondering, did did the time you were seeing him
and and going on these dates or anything else. Did
he tell you he was also dating Jodiiras?

Speaker 6 (01:40:04):
No, I had no idea.

Speaker 12 (01:40:06):
Okay, did he tell you that he was having sexual
relations with Jodi Aires?

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
No?

Speaker 11 (01:40:11):
Okay, what he did?

Speaker 12 (01:40:17):
It seemed seemingly told you. And I'm not going to
ask exactly what he said, but it was during a
camping trip, if I recall correctly, that he told you
he had a stalker. Was in this camping trip in Prescott.

Speaker 6 (01:40:33):
Yeah. Yeah, he didn't say a name at all, but
he when we were camping, we were having breakfast with
a couple of friends around, and he told me that
at that point that he had a stalker and that
she had actually followed us on a date and that
she knew who I was. And I told him that
I was really scary and that he should get a

(01:40:54):
restraining order.

Speaker 11 (01:40:57):
So and you say that, uh, he didn't tell you.
He didn't say that this was Jody, right, No, he
didn't say who it was.

Speaker 12 (01:41:07):
Could I uh draw your attention if you could be
so kind uh as to look at uh page six
of the transcript and just read uh to yourself for
a moment, Can uh and just read.

Speaker 11 (01:41:29):
To your s no quietly.

Speaker 12 (01:41:30):
I'm sorry Okay, w W where page six begin, you
should begin to rend line six or seven.

Speaker 11 (01:41:50):
This is par No, ma'am. I didn't ask a question
if I could approach your honor, right, let me make
sure I have the exact spot.

Speaker 6 (01:42:01):
I just try to pay stock.

Speaker 9 (01:42:26):
Well.

Speaker 12 (01:42:26):
Let me ask you this, you y and I kind
of interrupted you. You said you gave him the advice
that this he should seek a restraining order against this stalker.

Speaker 6 (01:42:41):
Right, yeah, okay, And.

Speaker 11 (01:42:44):
You expressed to him that you were scared of this stalker.

Speaker 1 (01:42:49):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:42:50):
I'm scared of any stalker. It's a sc It's not something.

Speaker 3 (01:42:53):
You want to take, right with, Kay.

Speaker 12 (01:42:56):
And to your knowledge, did he ever seek out or
restraining order?

Speaker 6 (01:43:01):
Not that I knew of. No, Okay, he he told
me not to be afraid.

Speaker 11 (01:43:04):
Okay.

Speaker 12 (01:43:05):
And your testimony as he never said to you that
Jody Arias was his stalker. That's your testimony.

Speaker 6 (01:43:10):
That's from what I can remember. I don't remember him
ever saying I the the time I remember hearing the
name Jody and it it could have been then, But
the time I actually recall the name Jody was the
knight that we found him at his house.

Speaker 11 (01:43:23):
Okay, thank you, Miss Hall.

Speaker 18 (01:43:26):
Nothing redirect where talked to you a little bit more
about this stalker issue and what it was it told
you when you were up in Black Prescott that level.

Speaker 6 (01:43:37):
Uh pa, I think it was in Pastons. Yeah. Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
You indicated that part of what he told you was
that this pr this stalker was a female, right, yes,
m And what had this female done that he was
warning you about?

Speaker 6 (01:43:52):
She had where she's cross over rolled, She had slashed
his tires several times, she had slashed He had dated
someone earlier that year, she had slashed her tires. She
had since threatening emails to both Travis and his girlfriend
of the time. She had followed us on the first

(01:44:17):
date that we went on, and she sounded dangerous. She
had broken into his email accounts, his bank accounts. She
would sneak into his house through the doggy door and
sleep on his couch at night without him knowing that
she was there.

Speaker 1 (01:44:31):
So, and you were dating him?

Speaker 6 (01:44:34):
What month of what year we went out?

Speaker 1 (01:44:40):
Sorry?

Speaker 6 (01:44:41):
You way? Uh? Like I said, I s said January
or February that that first time, and then later on
a March.

Speaker 1 (01:44:53):
Ish So it could have been from January to March
of two thousand and eight that these dates took place. Then, Yes,
in terms of whether or not mister Alexander was temple worthy,
do you know whether or not he was temple were they?

Speaker 6 (01:45:08):
I don't know. I he was in the past, cause
he talked about going to the temple, but you know,
when we were hanging out, I didn't know whether he
was or not.

Speaker 1 (01:45:16):
And in terms of whether or not he was a
priesthood holder, you assumed that he was.

Speaker 6 (01:45:20):
But you don't really know, right, Yeah, Actually, I'd like
to go back. I I think he had told I
remember just kind of when you asked me that that.
I think he had told me that.

Speaker 1 (01:45:29):
He w.

Speaker 6 (01:45:32):
Wasn't where they'd go to the temple, was not was
not a what were they'd go to the temple? But
as far as the priesthood holder, hold on.

Speaker 1 (01:45:40):
Okay, the microphones are not so good here. Okay, since
it was the was he or was he not a
temple worthy you're gonna tell us about that? And then
the priest wood holder, why don't you tell us about those?

Speaker 6 (01:45:51):
So I I actually remember him talking about, you know,
he used to work in the town, and then I
remembered him telling me a story, uh that he was
no longer uh worthy to go through the temple. He
didn't tell me why. I didn't ask why. That's private

(01:46:11):
and not worthy of So yeah, so I must so
during that time, I don't think he was temple worthy
and then priested holder. I assumed that he was at
that time, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:46:25):
Alright, And you were talking about the gradation or what
is the most serious of all sins and murders at
the top is what of right, Yeah, my mom would
deny in the Holy ghost, right right?

Speaker 6 (01:46:36):
And then underneath that you listened to some others what
worthy sexual immorality? So that would be ornication adultery.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
Well, just so that word it is clear adultery, what
does that refer to?

Speaker 6 (01:46:50):
When a husband and what you know, if you have
a marriage, you have a husband and wife and one
of them sleeps with or has a sexual relationship with
someone outside of their marriage, all.

Speaker 1 (01:47:00):
Right, how is that different from fornication.

Speaker 6 (01:47:03):
Fornication as far as I understand, is with a single person.
So somebody who's not married and has a sexual relationship
with someone else who is not married.

Speaker 1 (01:47:15):
So it's the same thing, only as it's sort of
a if.

Speaker 6 (01:47:19):
You will, a one's married, Right, And in terms of.

Speaker 1 (01:47:25):
The sinfulness of the person. Does it matter that the
person who is engaging fornication is a woman? In other words,
is it lesser for a woman to engage in fornication
than it is for a guy. No, so it's the
same sort of sin, right, Yes, let me ask you

(01:47:46):
the situation you were asked about reporting and that sort
of thing. What if a person is engaging in fornication,
whether they be let's just say it's female, and that
person does not self report, is that in itself a sin?

Speaker 6 (01:48:02):
Can you say that again?

Speaker 1 (01:48:03):
I'm your say, how about if a person is having
sex with somebody and they're single, that's it, Y's correct? Yes,
And this person continually has sex but does not self report,
doesn't go to the bishop and say I'm having sex
and I'm not married, is that also a sin? The

(01:48:25):
failure to report.

Speaker 6 (01:48:28):
It's it's it's just not repenting of that sin. You're
you're you're continuing on with the sin. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:48:36):
So in this gradation of sins that we've talked, we've
talked about the murder and the denial and the holy ghost,
and then you told us where fortunication and adulty came in.
How about lying?

Speaker 18 (01:48:46):
Is that a sin?

Speaker 1 (01:48:47):
Objection of.

Speaker 6 (01:48:52):
Overalls sin to life.

Speaker 1 (01:48:56):
And that's part of this list that you were talking
to the defense attorney about.

Speaker 3 (01:49:01):
Yeah, in terms of.

Speaker 1 (01:49:06):
This UH issue involving whether or not if somebody's being
heard and reporting it, is the only recourse if somebody's being.

Speaker 7 (01:49:16):
Heard to report it to the bishop or is there
a different recourse?

Speaker 1 (01:49:18):
Can a person report it to somebody else, for example
law enforcement?

Speaker 6 (01:49:23):
You you can tell anybody you want to. You're just yes,
but to in order to become clean again and er,
you know you have to tell him your bishop. You
have to confess this then, and this.

Speaker 1 (01:49:34):
Trip to Cancune that you talking to defense attorney about UH.

Speaker 7 (01:49:37):
You have first told him you didn't want.

Speaker 1 (01:49:38):
To go, right I.

Speaker 6 (01:49:40):
I told him that I want to t think about it,
told him that I would go. Then a couple of
weeks beforehand, I told him he should take someone else.

Speaker 1 (01:49:47):
A couple of weeks beforehand.

Speaker 7 (01:49:48):
You told him you should take somebody else, a couple of.

Speaker 1 (01:49:51):
Weeks before the trip, right trap, And did he agree
to take somebody else?

Speaker 6 (01:49:55):
He's he did not.

Speaker 3 (01:49:57):
He there wasn't anyone else he wanted to take.

Speaker 1 (01:49:59):
And he's conversations took place, what month and what.

Speaker 6 (01:50:02):
Year It may two thousand and eight?

Speaker 1 (01:50:06):
All right, anything else?

Speaker 6 (01:50:07):
Thank you?

Speaker 5 (01:50:08):
Does any member of the jury have a question for
this witness?

Speaker 6 (01:50:14):
I see no hands?

Speaker 11 (01:50:15):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:50:15):
You may step down. Counsel please approve.

Speaker 1 (01:50:19):
Statement.

Speaker 5 (01:50:20):
Call it's next witness.

Speaker 1 (01:50:40):
Can you spell your first and last name?

Speaker 6 (01:50:42):
Please S T E R L I N G W
I L I Okay, please right hand.

Speaker 5 (01:50:49):
You do solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:50:53):
So help you God, Thank you, you may the elm
all like that? The thing turned down?

Speaker 8 (01:51:06):
Some sterling Williams and who you were born? Mesa police?
What do you do for I'm a patrol officer?

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
How long have you do with the City of Basa
Alsa Department?

Speaker 9 (01:51:18):
Approximately six years?

Speaker 1 (01:51:20):
And what is it that uh you do as a
patrol officer?

Speaker 8 (01:51:24):
Respond to calls for service as put in by the
public patrol neighborhoods in my assigned area?

Speaker 1 (01:51:34):
You ride with one person or do you go by yourself?
It varies.

Speaker 9 (01:51:38):
I generally ride by myself, though.

Speaker 1 (01:51:40):
Did you have occasion to be on duty back on
June ninth of two thousand and eight, Yes, sir, and
UH did you have occasion to be on duty sometime
after nine thirty pm, Yes, sir, did you have occasion?

Speaker 7 (01:51:52):
You respond to an address on Queensworld Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:51:55):
What was that address?

Speaker 13 (01:51:57):
One one four two eight in East Queensboro?

Speaker 6 (01:51:59):
Open?

Speaker 1 (01:52:00):
And is that in Mason, Maricopa County, Arizona?

Speaker 6 (01:52:03):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:52:04):
And that residence described for me? Is it an apartment?

Speaker 6 (01:52:10):
Is a trailer of the house? What is it?

Speaker 9 (01:52:12):
It's a house? It's indepency.

Speaker 1 (01:52:14):
What time did you respond there?

Speaker 8 (01:52:16):
I got dispatched at ten thirty pm. I arrived on
scene at ten thirty six pm.

Speaker 1 (01:52:21):
And did you speak to anybody when you got there?

Speaker 13 (01:52:24):
Not initially?

Speaker 1 (01:52:26):
What did you do when you got there?

Speaker 13 (01:52:28):
I arrived shortly after fire personnel.

Speaker 8 (01:52:30):
They had already been directed to the upstairs master bedroom,
so I proceeded to follow them inside.

Speaker 1 (01:52:36):
And when you followed them inside, are you talking about.

Speaker 13 (01:52:39):
The bathroom inside of the residence through front or did
you go?

Speaker 7 (01:52:46):
Where did you go once you were inside?

Speaker 8 (01:52:48):
Once we went inside, we went directly to the stairs,
took the stairs up to the top and there's a
set of double doors at the top of the stairs
to the left, which was the entrance to the master
bedroom suite. Went in through the open door in there,
and fire person I went in to find the body.

Speaker 7 (01:53:06):
And did you actually see the fire department work on
the door or not?

Speaker 8 (01:53:12):
They didn't work on him. No, They and the visually
inspected him and were able to declare deceased at that point.

Speaker 13 (01:53:21):
What were you able to see as far as the body, Yes.

Speaker 8 (01:53:25):
Sir, it appeared to me that he had been deceased
and in that position for quite some time.

Speaker 1 (01:53:30):
Anything unusual about the body that called your attention to.

Speaker 8 (01:53:32):
It, other than the neck wound? He had appeared to
be dried blood on his neck appeared to be a
neck wound from ear to ear. His face was dark purple,
almost black. The rest of his body was very pale white,
and he was kind of crammed in the bottom of
a shower stall.

Speaker 7 (01:53:51):
Anything unusual about one of the cuts, anything.

Speaker 8 (01:53:53):
That caused the cut on the throat was it had
dried blood around the outside edges.

Speaker 9 (01:53:59):
It was still moist on the inside and at.

Speaker 13 (01:54:01):
The top portion where the wound was up near his ear.

Speaker 9 (01:54:05):
Uh.

Speaker 13 (01:54:05):
The way he was crouched down, it appeared there was
gas escaping the body.

Speaker 9 (01:54:09):
Every few seconds there it would.

Speaker 13 (01:54:11):
Bubble, and was the bubble red and color no redish
but not entirely.

Speaker 1 (01:54:17):
Okay, what would to show you a couple of photographs?
Please take a look at exhibits some number.

Speaker 7 (01:54:27):
Birds seventy three, seventy four.

Speaker 1 (01:54:30):
And seventy five. Let's take a look at them.

Speaker 7 (01:54:32):
See you recognize what's there?

Speaker 9 (01:54:39):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:54:40):
What are they?

Speaker 9 (01:54:41):
This is the body that I found in a shower?

Speaker 1 (01:54:44):
Is it ending? These photographs? Tru and acurate depictions of
the body. Is it existed back on June ninth of
two thousand and eight when you found the bodies?

Speaker 9 (01:54:52):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:54:53):
Moving the admission of exhibits seventy three from seventy flock.

Speaker 5 (01:54:59):
You need projection, mom my right, oh, jess, Exhibit seventy three,
seventy four and seventy five are admitted.

Speaker 1 (01:55:16):
Let's ride and take a little bit on that. There's
a blare of there works right up. What are we
looking at here?

Speaker 13 (01:55:36):
That's a shower stall with the body gramm down on
the bottom.

Speaker 10 (01:55:41):
Of it.

Speaker 11 (01:55:43):
And the master beddy kay.

Speaker 1 (01:55:47):
And exhibit number seventy four, So we're looking up there.

Speaker 13 (01:55:52):
It's closer up above shot of the body, same body.

Speaker 1 (01:55:59):
And exhibit number seventy five, it's.

Speaker 9 (01:56:08):
A closer shot of the neck room that I saw.

Speaker 1 (01:56:11):
Were you indicated something about gases and items coming out?

Speaker 7 (01:56:17):
Does this show that area?

Speaker 8 (01:56:19):
Yes, where right at the end of the wound, near
the year where you can see the small specs of.

Speaker 9 (01:56:27):
Blood and substance.

Speaker 13 (01:56:29):
It was bubbling and splattering as it was bubbling.

Speaker 1 (01:56:32):
Other than that area that we just saw in that area,
did you see any other areas that had blood on it?

Speaker 11 (01:56:42):
Just as chest.

Speaker 13 (01:56:44):
I didn't examine the body very much after that.

Speaker 7 (01:56:52):
Did you have occasion to look elsewhere or was it
the extent of.

Speaker 1 (01:56:55):
What you looked at?

Speaker 13 (01:56:56):
I did look briefly around the remainder of the bathroom
while I.

Speaker 9 (01:56:59):
Was in there.

Speaker 1 (01:56:59):
Yes, And what is it that you saw in the bathroom?

Speaker 8 (01:57:03):
I noticed large amounts of blood spatter and the sink
and on the countertop. I also noticed some There was
a linen closet directly across from the walk in closet.
The door was closed and it looked like there was
some dried blood possibly under the door.

Speaker 1 (01:57:20):
And but this is this covered by nanoiling or is
this carpeting?

Speaker 9 (01:57:23):
This was a tile area and.

Speaker 1 (01:57:24):
Tile area, so was it the carpet of the closet?

Speaker 6 (01:57:27):
No?

Speaker 7 (01:57:27):
No, how did you actually walk in there?

Speaker 8 (01:57:30):
Did you walk in As I entered the room, I
noticed large amounts of blood on the carpet it transition
between the tile and the carpet from the master bedroom.

Speaker 1 (01:57:42):
Yes.

Speaker 8 (01:57:42):
There was a hallway leading off to the bathroom where
the shower stall was that was all covered in blood,
and I noticed large amounts of blood pooling and smears.

Speaker 9 (01:57:52):
There was a.

Speaker 8 (01:57:53):
Walking closet that paralleled that hallway with doors on both ends.
That closet was clean, there was, It was actually immaculately
clean there in the.

Speaker 1 (01:58:03):
Closet is that Was there any blood in that and
that's the one that's directly next to the shower area,
then yes, And so did you notice any blood in
that air in that closet?

Speaker 9 (01:58:18):
No, I did not.

Speaker 7 (01:58:18):
When you said it was immaculately clean, what do you mean?

Speaker 9 (01:58:21):
Everything was very neatly in order.

Speaker 13 (01:58:23):
All the shoes were well placed, clothes were hung up nicely.

Speaker 9 (01:58:26):
It just appeared very clean.

Speaker 1 (01:58:28):
Did you take a look at the bedroom area, yes,
and did you see any blood there?

Speaker 13 (01:58:34):
Yes, I'm right at the entryway to the hallway leading
to the bathroom.

Speaker 1 (01:58:38):
So that's the gain sort of that border between the
hallway and the car. Yes, I don't have any other
questions than.

Speaker 5 (01:58:44):
Could cross examination.

Speaker 11 (01:58:53):
Yeah, we had no questions across the ways.

Speaker 5 (01:58:56):
Does any member of the jury have a question for
this witness? I see no hands you mean step down?
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take
the evening recess at this time. Please be back in
the designated area at ten thirty am tomorrow morning. Please
remember the admonition. Are there any questions? Thank you, have
a nice evening. You are excused, counsel anything for the record, no,

(01:59:40):
thank you.

Speaker 11 (01:59:41):
Not think other than was one of the wordis is
to be called tomorrow.

Speaker 10 (01:59:46):
Let no once I get back to the audust obviously,
steep Florest, maybe call tomorrow and perhaps have its hair
have maybe and this is.

Speaker 1 (01:59:58):
A holly all I know.

Speaker 5 (02:00:00):
All right, thank you,