Day 10

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Sir, please come right, appear to be sworn.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Reach right, man, you do solemnly swear the testimony you're
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
So help you God, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Let's walk right around and I have it.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
Maybe seed, thank you.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Good morning, sir.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
Could you introduce yourself to the jury please?

Speaker 5 (00:32):
Many discuss cercy and gus.

Speaker 4 (00:36):
What is it that you do for a living?

Speaker 6 (00:40):
Many things, but the thing mostly is legal Shield or
prepaid legal.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
In the previous name.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
Okay, And just for clarification, when did it When did
prepaid legal become legal Shield?

Speaker 5 (00:51):
July first, about two years ago?

Speaker 4 (00:54):
And if you could, what is your position within the
company they're a label for it.

Speaker 6 (01:01):
Yeah, I am what's called a one hundred thousand dollars
ring earner, which means I have this little ring, means
I make over one hundred thousand dollars a year, whether
I get out of it or not.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
And I'm an executive director.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
Okay, executive director. Could you describe for me the or
educate us all perhaps on the hierarchy of prepaid legal
or legal Shield, how that works in terms of where
an executive director fits in and who above him and
who's blown if you could explain.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
That to the jury.

Speaker 6 (01:31):
Legal Shield is a multi level network marketing company that
provides a legal insurance product and an identity type product,
and it has about a little over four hundred thousand associates.
Out of those four hundred thousand associates, the goal is
to attain a level such as myself or some of
the other people in the company. And the main level

(01:53):
that people want to get to is something called an
executive director. Out of the four hundred thousand people in
the company, at the approximately fifteen one hundred executive directors,
and then there's various levels of executive director from there up.
The other thing that people want to attain is the
one hundred thousand dollars ring, because you could be an
executive director.

Speaker 5 (02:13):
But still not making a lot of money.

Speaker 6 (02:15):
But if you have the ring, it signifies that you've
made a documented one hundred thousand dollars in a twelve
month period. So to be a ring earner and an
executive director is a big thing. To be an executive
director is a very big thing in the company.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
Okay, it's symbolized in part by the ring. But let
me ask you this. You said there's various levels of
executive director. Could you describe those for us?

Speaker 5 (02:39):
Well, there's like bronze.

Speaker 6 (02:41):
There's executive director that means you're an executive director. There's
bronze that means you've helped one other person become an
executive director. There's silver, which is where I kind of fall.
I mean, you've helped two people at least become executive director. Gold,
you've helped three people become executive director, Platinum four and
then Platinum two, and it just keeps going up to Diamond,

(03:03):
I think, which is thirteen or fourteen people executive director
directly under you.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Okay, and you said you are at the silver level,
you've made two people executive directors, right.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
Yeah, directly underneath me. I've actually created a lot of
executive directors. But yes, okay.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Let me ask then, as part from what does legal
shield or prepaid legal, what do they sell to the customer?

Speaker 5 (03:33):
The customer would be the average American public.

Speaker 6 (03:37):
The premise is this, the average person checks their wallet
before they check their rights, and the wallet says they
don't have any We fix that.

Speaker 5 (03:45):
We give the average.

Speaker 6 (03:46):
Person the ability of access to proper legal service. Legal
advice and identity theft monitoring and restoration services.

Speaker 5 (03:53):
For about a buck nineteen a day. It's a great deal.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
So the associate mark the insurance to new customers.

Speaker 6 (04:02):
Correct, friends, businesses, group benefits, employee benefits, all kinds of things, yes, okay.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
And then do they then attempt to get other people
to sell the insurance as also to be become associates
so they can build their businesses that.

Speaker 6 (04:18):
Some do and some don't. Most people who want to
build a large organization.

Speaker 5 (04:24):
Thing would like an insurance company.

Speaker 6 (04:25):
And if you can sell insurance, and you might be
really good at selling insurance, and there are people in
our company that that's all they do. Or you want
to be an insurance broker, so you get other people
to work for you, like a real estate agent with
a real estate broker with real estate agents.

Speaker 5 (04:38):
It's that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
Okay. So you are within the structure then financially incentivized
to get more people selling insurance for you. That's how
you become executive director.

Speaker 7 (04:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (04:52):
The correct a.

Speaker 6 (04:52):
Way to do it is to build a team of people.
So you're making a little bit off of each person.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
Okay, And so if he said a little bit making
a little bit off each person.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
So if you sell.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
Insurance to John, okay, and John turns around and sells
it to Sally, you make money off the insurance. You,
as a person who brought John into the company, makes
money off the insurance John sold to Sally.

Speaker 6 (05:19):
Is that in a quick summary, Yes, If I sold
a thirty five dollars ninety five cent service, which is
what it costs thirty five to ninety five a month,
I make anywhere from thirty four to two hundred and
fifty two dollars, depending upon what level I'm at in
the company. As an executive director, I make two hundred
and fifty two dollars for collecting thirty.

Speaker 5 (05:37):
Five dollars and ninety five cents.

Speaker 6 (05:39):
If I bring John into the business and John goes
out and sells something for someone, he makes anywhere from
thirty four to two hundred and fifty two. And I
make anywhere from thirty four to one hundred and eighty
two dollars because I found John.

Speaker 4 (05:52):
So the if I understand you correctly in the system correctly,
you make the most money. Is not only if you
get John to buy insurance and sell it to and
then eventually sell to Sally. If Sally sells to Fred,
then you're making more money because because the chain is

(06:13):
growing as it were. That is correct, and that's really
ultimately how one becomes executive director. They get higher pay
and then they eventually get to Donna Ring at the meetings. Correct.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
That is correct.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Now, in terms of what you do for prepaid Legal
I want to clarify, is it just a matter of
you sell the insurance or do you do other things
within the company.

Speaker 5 (06:43):
Well, once you're hitting the level.

Speaker 6 (06:46):
Of executive director, there's a book that they publish called
Profiles of Success, and it's one thing to be an
executive director. It's the next thing to be an executive
director in Profiles of Success because you have to hit
executive director.

Speaker 5 (07:01):
To be an executive director.

Speaker 6 (07:02):
In Legal Shield, you have to qualify every month to
do that. You don't just hit it and you're there.
You have to qualify every single month. So once you've
done it eight months in a row, there's a book
that's published with all the stars in the company, if
you will, and it starts off with.

Speaker 5 (07:22):
The Ring earners. Like I said, out of four hundred and.

Speaker 6 (07:24):
Some thousand people in the company, there's about fifteen hundred
executive directors and about two hundred.

Speaker 5 (07:29):
And fifty ring earners. So the book will start with
the ring earners and then.

Speaker 6 (07:32):
It flips through to the executive directors at the back
that are consistently producing.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
Well, let me ask you this. Do you do anything
to help market the company or promote the company at
meetings or anything of that nature.

Speaker 6 (07:45):
Yes, I get flown around the country to speak at
meetings because ring earners and executive directors are.

Speaker 5 (07:54):
You know, that's what everyone is. It wants to attain.

Speaker 6 (07:56):
So they take us and they send us places to
speak at meetings to inspire other people. Because even though
it's the same message, sometimes you hear it from a
different person. Suddenly it sings in and goes, oh yeah,
I can do that because it's the kind of thing
that it's a really good thing that anybody can do.
But a lot of people just don't succeed because they
don't know how to succeed.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
And so you say, you speak at many different conventions
or events.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
I don't know what they're called.

Speaker 6 (08:24):
Business briefings, conventions, super saturdays.

Speaker 5 (08:28):
There's different terms. There's a weekly meeting every week.

Speaker 6 (08:32):
There's a weekly meeting everywhere in the United States, there's
hundreds of them. Once a month, they have something called
the Super Saturday that each marketplace, all the meetings come
together for one day they have the National Convention.

Speaker 5 (08:46):
They'll even have regional events.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
Okay, let's talk a little bit about the National Convention,
and I'll give you a minute to force some more.
Is that national Convention held in the same.

Speaker 5 (09:06):
Place every year? There's back then there were two.

Speaker 6 (09:11):
They used to hold one in Oklahoma, which they still
do that one, and then they would hold one in
either Dallas or Las Vegas and every six months.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
Tell us, if you will, how those conventions are set
up is there's various meetings, some of these inspirational talks.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Tell us how that works.

Speaker 6 (09:33):
Before the main two days of the event, there's a
lot of classes, training classes.

Speaker 5 (09:40):
For example, truck drivers.

Speaker 6 (09:42):
There's a great program for truck drivers, but you have
to be CDLP certified, Commercial driver's license certified to be
able to sell that program. Or there's group benefits and
you have to be certified. So there's classes like that.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
Then the night before.

Speaker 6 (09:57):
The event starts, because it's usually Friday Saturday, so the
night before Thursday nine, they have what's called the executive
director banquet, and the executive director banquet is kind of
like to the average person.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
To be like the super Bowl.

Speaker 6 (10:12):
To get to go to the executive director banquet is
the thing, and if you're an executive director, you get
to bring one person with you and that person kind
of just won the lottery ticket, if you will.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Okay, describe they Well, let me ask you this before
we start talking. Go back to the banquets. These conventions.
Are they limited to people that have been working for
the company a certain amount of period of time? Are
they open to people that are just maybe interested in
the business, you know that sort of thing.

Speaker 6 (10:44):
The convention is open to the people that are in
the business. Okay, I'm sure there are people who aren't
in the business that could come, but it's tailored towards
people who are in the business, whether you're an associate
or junior associate and just starting or a diamond on
the highest levels of the company.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Is it is it both the recruiting and motivational mission
or is it just strictly motivational For.

Speaker 5 (11:07):
It's more of a said, it's more geared for the
associates that.

Speaker 6 (11:10):
Are already in it's to help keep them in the game,
help build their belief, help build their you know, their
their thickness of skin if you will. I mean, a
lot of people tell you no. I mean, in my
personal case to get the ring five seven and eighty four,
people told me no. A lot of people get two
no's and quit. So it's to help keep people in

(11:33):
the game, to help keep people inspired. And they see
people go across stage. They bring people on the stage
from all walks of life, all races, all creeds, you know,
all financial beginnings that have achieved success.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
And it's very good, it's very heartwarming to see all
of that.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
Can you tell us now, going back to what you
said about the executive director's banquet and somebody went in
a lottery ticket to get in there or to be there,
could you just kind of tell us what goes on
at that and at this banquet, how the directors are
traded or their speeches. Could you just kind of describe

(12:10):
that for us.

Speaker 6 (12:11):
Sure, it's a formal attire evening, tuxedo, formal gowns for women.
So women love it because they get to get dressed
up and the men have to get dressed up, so
that works out real well for the women. Only the
executive directors who've qualified in the last three months are
allowed to go, So there's around twelve hundred executive directors

(12:32):
each with the guests, there's people in that room that
make anywhere from one hundred thousand dollars a year to
four million dollars a year, and the royalty of the company,
if you will, And so to be able to be
at that banquet, you actually have the ability to walk up,
shake their hand, talk to them, take a picture with them.

(12:52):
The dinner is really good, and then the speeches that
night are usually the newest one hundred thousand dollars ring earners.
So if you've got one hundred thousand dollar ring, is
your first opportunity to speak, and they usually have you
speak there and then they have you speak again at
the convention in front of the entire congregation if you will.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
The next day.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
Okay, you mentioned, you know people at this banquet making
between one hundred thousand dollars and four million dollars. It
sounds to me like that is that advertise? I mean,
is it common knowledge?

Speaker 3 (13:26):
Is it?

Speaker 4 (13:27):
In these publications you've talked about person acts may two
hundred and fifty thousand dollars or is that announced at
the banquet? How does that work?

Speaker 6 (13:35):
In the book that's published, it shows whether you're a
million dollar ring earner, a half million.

Speaker 5 (13:42):
Dollar ring earner, two hundred and fifty.

Speaker 6 (13:43):
Thousand dollars ring earner, one hundred thousand dollar ring earner,
an executive director. And I kind of mistated people at
that banquet could be executive directors and they make roughly
sixty to seventy thousand dollars a year. So it's sixty
to seventy on up about five thousand a month minimum if.

Speaker 5 (13:59):
You're an executive director.

Speaker 4 (14:01):
Okay, roughly, but that's that's known, at least the minimum
men coming. Those individuals are known, and it's bantied about. Okay,
you mentioned that a person who was not executive director
who got invited to that banquet. I think your word
was they won the lottery or got a lottery ticket. Yes,
could you explain to us what you mean by that?

Speaker 6 (14:24):
Well, if you're not an executive director and you're really
into the whole legal shield family, the whole concept of
what's going on, and you know who all these people are,
and suddenly you get invited to go, I mean it'd be.

Speaker 5 (14:36):
Kind of like if you were working.

Speaker 6 (14:39):
At a presidential election and you're candidate one and you
got invited to the White House for the inauguration and
a special banquet, it.

Speaker 5 (14:47):
Would be that kind of thing. So it's a it's
a very big deal.

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Okay, let's talk a little bit about a little bit
more about while here and how you got involved in this.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Do you know that young lady sitting there?

Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yes, light blue shirt? Yes?

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Who is she?

Speaker 4 (15:12):
And do you know her last name?

Speaker 5 (15:14):
Arius?

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Arius?

Speaker 4 (15:15):
Have you ever hear pronounced any other way other than Arius?

Speaker 2 (15:19):
No?

Speaker 4 (15:20):
Okay, how did you come to know Jody Aarris?

Speaker 6 (15:26):
Well, I would kind of explain a little bit about
how I got into this whole thing. I'm a bit
of an anomaly in the organism.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
Who we approaching her?

Speaker 4 (15:45):
Mister seriously again, let me ask you if you could
be so kind as to describe for us how you
came to become acquainted with Jody as she came.

Speaker 6 (15:57):
I had gone to speak in Arizona at the one
of the business briefings.

Speaker 5 (16:03):
And after the business briefing.

Speaker 6 (16:04):
They have kind of like what's called an after event
where they take the guest speaker, this case me, and
they take them out to dinner, and so all the
associates in the meeting can kind of get to meet.

Speaker 5 (16:15):
The guest speaker for that night, and she was at
that meeting.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
Okay, and kind of describe for me this meeting. I
mean you mentioned taking pictures and that is that what
we're talking about? A kind of a social gathering or
is this like another event where the heads of the company,
so to speak, are treated like royalty as you described now,
this is an.

Speaker 6 (16:36):
After event after the business briefing, which is the formal
presence where if someone wanted to learn about what we do,
you would.

Speaker 5 (16:43):
Invite a guest. You'd go to the.

Speaker 6 (16:45):
Briefing, a speaker will come in do a presentation for everyone,
and then afterwards they take the speaker out to dinner,
and anyone who wants to come, guest or associate is
welcome to come.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
And it's kind of a casual social meeting at that
point and take pictures.

Speaker 6 (17:00):
They have you signed their books and things like that.

Speaker 5 (17:04):
And I met her at that point.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
And do you remember when that was not precisely do
you remember a year of particular conventions like.

Speaker 6 (17:16):
Two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, somewhere in
that range, and.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
You don't remember what meeting it was at or what convention.

Speaker 5 (17:23):
I've done hundreds of them.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
Okay. After meeting Jody at this initial event, did your
relationship with her continue?

Speaker 5 (17:37):
Yeah? She had asked me to help her.

Speaker 6 (17:40):
And the reason because I became an executive director in
ninety days. It usually takes people a year to two
years to.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Hit that level.

Speaker 6 (17:47):
So people a lot of people, not just Jody, asking
me for help so they can get past whatever level
they're at, because I seem to have a nact for
helping people do that.

Speaker 4 (17:56):
Okay, so it wasn't uncommon for you to receive request.

Speaker 5 (18:00):
Like that for help, No, okay, I have lots of them.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
And just so we're clear, what do you mean by
helping people get past their level? And you know you're
talking about sales techniques marketing technique?

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Is that what we're talking about?

Speaker 5 (18:14):
Or well, we all.

Speaker 6 (18:17):
Have the same product at the same price, with the
same marketing tools, So it's really not about that.

Speaker 5 (18:21):
It's it's about what's in people's heads. So I need
to find out what's.

Speaker 6 (18:25):
Making them not succeed because this is you know, the
company has a very simple process, and if you follow
the process and you do what we ask you to do,
you'll probably succeed if you do it right. So there's
their emotions involved there, like some people that are afraid
to talk to their family because they're embarrassed, or you
know they're they're shy, or you know, they don't quite

(18:46):
believe in the product that they got involved, or you
need to find out what the reasoning is.

Speaker 5 (18:50):
So you need to get into.

Speaker 6 (18:51):
Their head, find out what's going on with them. And
then what I usually do is set up some kind
of accountability where they will say, all right, I want
you to call me once a week or twice a week,
depending upon the situation, let me know what you're doing,
or how many people you've shown the service to that week,
or it's something that kind of forces them into an
action because it's it's kind of like weight watchers. If

(19:12):
you've got to show up every week to somebody, and
you're going to be more likely to do something than
if you are completely on your own.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
Okay, and is this the type of relationship you began
to develop with Joy Areas?

Speaker 5 (19:24):
That's correct?

Speaker 4 (19:28):
Can you speak to how much contact you had with
miss Areas over the ensuing months? Was it weekly? You
talked about checking in month or did you know?

Speaker 6 (19:38):
Uh, probably at the minimum of once a week we
would touch base with each other.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
Okay, did you was it strictly business or did you
ever become friends?

Speaker 5 (19:55):
Well? I'm usually friends with most people I deal with.
I tend to work out a personal level as opposed
to business level.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
So yes, okay, So.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
It wasn't just a matter of discussing business you you
became friends. That's how you tend to do things.

Speaker 6 (20:11):
Yeah, because you get to know people. That's how you're
going to get to know. If it's strictly business, you
don't really get to know what's going.

Speaker 8 (20:15):
On with it.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
Okay, So over those months you got to know miss
Arius fairly well. During your interactions with miss let mean,
and I want to clarify before we go any further.
Your relationship with miss Arius was that strictly bltonic or
was it? Was there any romantic or sexual or sexual

(20:39):
relationship between the two of you?

Speaker 5 (20:40):
Just platonic?

Speaker 3 (20:42):
She had a boyfriend, okay? And who was his boyfriend?

Speaker 5 (20:45):
Travis Alexander And.

Speaker 4 (20:51):
You knew Travis as your boyfriend to your knowledge? Did
a lot of people know about that? I said, to
his knowledge.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yes, answer yes or no.

Speaker 6 (21:06):
Overall, to my knowledge, I don't know how many people knew.
That wasn't something I was concerned about. I knew, but
it wasn't something I didn't conduct a survey.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
In the time of your relationship with her, did you
ever know her to dress in a way that you
thought was over sexual or inappropriate.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Approach?

Speaker 4 (21:38):
See let me ask you, mister seiously at during the
course of your relationship with miss Arias, I know you
talked about meeting her at a convention and her asking
for your help, And I know you talked a lot
about a fair amount of phone calls that you had

(21:59):
weekly phone calls. How many other times did you physically
see her? Were you in contact with her, be it
at meetings, be it on a personal level, anything of
that nature.

Speaker 6 (22:10):
Do you have any idea, Well, I'd see her at
the national convention, see her at the after event, see
her at the regional event.

Speaker 5 (22:22):
So maybe four or five, six times, not counting times
she met with me personally.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
Excuse me, I'm sorry I didn't hear the last part.

Speaker 5 (22:31):
Not counting the time she met with me personally.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
And do you have any idea about how many times
she met with you personally over the year or so that.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
You knew her, I mean just probably twice, okay.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
As it relates to all those meetings, both personal and professional,
did you see her ever dress in a inappropriate manner?

Speaker 6 (22:55):
No, she was always dressed very feminine, but she was
very conservative.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Overalls will stand.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
And what was that? You describe that again for us, please?

Speaker 6 (23:09):
I said she was always dressed very feminine, but very conservative.
Always long sleeves, high necks, long dresses or slacks, nothing
provocative in any way, very very professional.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Okay. And that was both in your personal interaction and
professional interaction with her at these meetings.

Speaker 6 (23:25):
Right, even personally, she'd always wear link jeans and the
lung sweat turtle, that kind of sweater thing.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
Was going back to these meetings you've had with her.
Was she ever sexually inappropriate in her conduct?

Speaker 2 (23:42):
No?

Speaker 5 (23:43):
I watched for those kinds of things because some women I.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
Help describe for us how you can come to that.

Speaker 6 (23:53):
Conclusion, because I helped various people, men and women and
how they dress, how they act all affects things. And
some women they dress too provocative and men don't take
them serious. They want to date them rather than join them. Okay,
And so they need to tone it down or some
you know, dress too wild, or it's even as subtle

(24:16):
as their cell phone. When someone calls their cell phone,
the message on it is some kind of weird music
or something which is inappropriate for a professional business person
if someone's calling you, So I take all of the
factors into consideration.

Speaker 4 (24:31):
Let me ask you, let me ask you this way.
Then these are factors you take a look at when
you're mentoring both men and women in the business and
with correct okay, And as it relates to the conduct
of a female that you might be mentoring, you never
found mis arious. You never needed to direct her in

(24:53):
any way regarding being overly fritacious or her phone or
anything of that nature. All very professional, right, Did you
observe her behavior to be professional? Yes? Could you describe
for us? And you mentioned a couple of the personal

(25:18):
interactions you had with her, not at the business briefings.
Could you describe, say, for example, the first occasion.

Speaker 6 (25:26):
I was in Las Vegas speaking at the local business briefing.
It wasn't the convention, it was the local business briefing,
and she had called me and she was very upset
her and Travis had had an argument.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Sustained when she called you. What was her demeanor?

Speaker 5 (25:45):
She was very upset?

Speaker 4 (25:46):
Okay, did you have an understanding of why?

Speaker 7 (25:51):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (25:52):
And what was that understanding when you received this phone
call from miss Arias and she was upset? To your knowledge,
where did she live at that point in time?

Speaker 5 (26:07):
She was in Arizona?

Speaker 4 (26:10):
And to your knowledge, was she intending to move elsewhere?

Speaker 1 (26:17):
You may answer only yes or no?

Speaker 4 (26:20):
Restate the question please, to your knowledge, was she moving
away out of Mesa, Arizona?

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (26:32):
And she described for you? Why do you remember month
and year of the time that this took place?

Speaker 5 (26:42):
I can't remember exactly this loan down the road?

Speaker 4 (26:46):
Okay. You mentioned that you were in Vegas in your
motor home, right, correct? And miss Arias came to stay
with you.

Speaker 5 (27:01):
Yes, I invited her. She said she needed to get away.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
Sustained, She came to stay with you on her way
out of Mesa.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Right over world to be answer yes or now?

Speaker 7 (27:17):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (27:21):
And she spent some time with you at your motor home.

Speaker 5 (27:26):
Correct, That is correct?

Speaker 4 (27:29):
And it was this a matter of hours, a matter
of days. Can you describe that for us?

Speaker 5 (27:34):
That two days, two days, one night okay.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
And during those two days and one night, did she
ever make any sexual advances upon you? To your knowledge?
During those few days, did she ever speak to Travis Alexander?

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (27:55):
No, Yes, was mister Alexander. Did mister Alexander, to your knowledge,
ever come to the motorhome? No, to your knowledge. While
miss Arius was there at your motor home spending these

(28:18):
two days of one night with you, did mister Alexander
arrive at your motor home?

Speaker 3 (28:25):
Was he there?

Speaker 5 (28:26):
No?

Speaker 4 (28:30):
To your knowledge. Did she receive any phone calls from
mister Alexander?

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (28:40):
How are you aware that mister Alexander was calling her?

Speaker 6 (28:44):
The motorhome is very large, but it's long as opposed
to wide. So we were sitting I was sitting on
one counch, she was sitting on the other. We'd been
talking about this far away between me and this gentleman.
Here the phone range, and if you're in a real
quiet room, when someone's that close, you can hear what

(29:05):
the other side is saying.

Speaker 5 (29:07):
So she answered the phone.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
She said, he goes higher, sustained we approached.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
During this phone call we were speaking about. Did miss
Arius identify who.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
She was speaking to? Yes?

Speaker 5 (29:25):
And whom was that, Travis?

Speaker 4 (29:27):
Travis Alexander.

Speaker 5 (29:28):
Travis Alexander, did you.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
Describe for us?

Speaker 4 (29:32):
You've talked about being in this small motor home, so
could you describe for us her demeanor after the phone call?

Speaker 6 (29:40):
Well, once it got heated, she excused herself, stepped outside.
She talked to him for about a half an hour outside,
and when she came back in, she was shaking and crying.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
Okay. Had you seen her act like that before in
any of your prior interactions with her?

Speaker 2 (30:04):
No?

Speaker 4 (30:05):
Did you ever see miss Arius get mad at Travis? No,
you mentioned you saw miss Arius a second time after
this time you met in Las Vegas? What was that?

Speaker 2 (30:22):
When?

Speaker 8 (30:22):
Was that?

Speaker 6 (30:23):
She was moving to northern California and she had had
her phone stolen, so I helped her to get a phone.

Speaker 5 (30:31):
So she meant me to get the phone.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (30:34):
And how long was that?

Speaker 2 (30:35):
In?

Speaker 5 (30:36):
A minutes? Not very long. We just met, said hello
and gave you the phone. She was on her way.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
Okay, moment yarn, Thank you mister. Seriously, that's all the
questions I have for.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Right now a cross examination.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
So with regard to this prepaid legal output that you
work with, I think the term that you used was
that it's multi level marketing, right, yes, And it appears
from the way that you described it is that if
somebody signs somebody else up, and there's somebody that you

(31:10):
signed up, then you benefit. Correct, say that one more
time you sign somebody up for example, yes, and then
they sign somebody up. It seems that you profit from
that signing up of the last person, don't.

Speaker 5 (31:27):
You, Yes, a profit from all the people.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
So the answer is yes, you do profit, right, Yes.
And it appears in the way that you describe all
of this that there are a very few number of people,
whatever designation you may give them, directors, give them rings, whatever,
that are at the very top. There's some sort of
elite people at the very top, right, Yes, And those
people are profiting from what everybody else is doing down here.

Speaker 5 (31:53):
Right as they profit themselves.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
But the answer is yes, these people up here profit
by whatever is going on down here, right, Yes, And
that's how the money is made, right, Yes, That's how
one reaches one hundred thousand dollars club right, Yes, by
being at the top of the pyramid. Those are the
people that are really making the money.

Speaker 5 (32:13):
Right, it's not a pyramid.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
I didn't say it was a pyramid. I just the
top at the top of the pyramid.

Speaker 5 (32:19):
That implies a pyramid in my logic.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
So is that a yes or a no? Or do
you not want to answer?

Speaker 8 (32:24):
Not?

Speaker 5 (32:24):
As stated?

Speaker 3 (32:26):
So you don't want to answer that question indicating that
the people that are at the top of what appears
to be a pyramid, those people are the ones that
are making the money. Objection a world.

Speaker 5 (32:42):
It's not a pyramid, so to say it is would
be wrong. It is multi level that I will agree with.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Well, sir, so that your answer is you won't answer
that question right as.

Speaker 5 (32:50):
Supposed as stated?

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Okay, well, then let's use a triangle. Right, It's not
called it a pyramid, It's called it a triangle. The
people at the very top of the triangle, those are
the people that are the directors. Those are the people
that have the rings. Those are the people that go
to the executive ball.

Speaker 5 (33:08):
Right, It's more like a circle. If you want to
get into geometry, sir.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
That's not my question to you, isn't I'm asking you
who's making the money? Aren't it the people who work
the hardest sustained who's making the money? The people that
are at the top or the people that are down
here that they signed up.

Speaker 5 (33:27):
Sir, you are wrong.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
There are people at the top that don't have anything
underneath reson, go ahead.

Speaker 6 (33:34):
There are people in this company making hundreds of thousands
of dollars that don't have anyone underneath them. They go
out and sell it as an employee benefit. You sign
up Southwest Airlines, for example, one of our clients.

Speaker 5 (33:45):
You're a millionaire. You don't need to recruit anybody, so that.

Speaker 6 (33:49):
What you're stating isn't correct, and you're asking me to
stay something that is not correct for your purposes, not
the truth.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
So the model that you previously describe the people that
were the in the one hundred thousand dollars club, you
signed up Southwest Airlines.

Speaker 6 (34:04):
I personally didn't, but I sold one thousand memberships myself.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Objection non responsive jets the state. The question is, sir,
did you sign up Southwest Airlines? No? Did you sign
up any big company at all?

Speaker 5 (34:17):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Who did you sign up? Go ahead?

Speaker 5 (34:18):
Tell me City of Norwalk, City of Garden Grove.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
And that's the reason why you're in one hundred thousand
dollars club.

Speaker 5 (34:25):
Partially, it's partially because of both. It could be a mixture.

Speaker 6 (34:29):
Some people recruit only, some people sell only.

Speaker 5 (34:33):
Some people let myself do all that.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
They ask you this question, she was making a lot
of money, we're talking about the defendant.

Speaker 5 (34:39):
No, she was not an executive director. She was trying
to right.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
So the answer, she wasn't making a lot of money, right,
that's correct. She hadn't signed any big businesses.

Speaker 5 (34:47):
Right, that's correct.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
And the reason that she was under your tutelage was
that you were trying to groom her so that she
would be able to present herself so she would be
of the mindset to go out and sell this.

Speaker 5 (34:57):
Right, that's correct.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
In terms of the money that was coming in, the
approximately forty dollars a month that was coming in for her,
that money, if she had somebody above her, didn't.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
She, Yes, she did so.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
And if she signed somebody up, the person above her
would be making the money.

Speaker 5 (35:16):
Right, that is correct.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
And the people that are above each other, those are
the ones keeping out the business people the business accounts.
Those are the ones that are making the money. Right.

Speaker 6 (35:29):
Everyone makes money who sells or helps people make sales.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
The big money I'm talking about the one hundred thousand.
If you take out the business like Southwest. The people
at the very top, and you only talk about individuals.
Those people have other people underneath them, and they take
some of the money from the people underneath them. Right.

Speaker 6 (35:50):
There are people who do that, yes, and there are
people who don't, but they still make money.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
The majority of the people that are making money in
that company are the people that have signed up a
lot of people.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Correct.

Speaker 6 (36:03):
Call for speculation on my part. I don't know everyone's
individual financial method.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
But it could be right, could be a regulation mistake.
You said that you met the defendant in two thousand
and seven or two thousand.

Speaker 6 (36:20):
And eight, right, he probably late two thousand and seven.
Initially I had gone to speak in Arizona. So what
month was that I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
And you became what was the occasion again.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
I was speaking at a local business briefing.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
And she happened to be there, right, that's correct. So
that was a professional setting, right, correct? And you saw
her four other times in a professional setting, right, that's correct.
How much time did you spend with her that first
time that you met.

Speaker 5 (36:50):
Her the first night, yes, sir.

Speaker 6 (36:54):
Now, the after event probably lasted forty five minutes to
an hour, and she was one of the people that
I was interacting with. So if I'm gonna break it
down in minutes, I maybe ten or fifteen minutes the
first night.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
All right? And then after that, when did.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
You meet her again physically?

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Yes, that's what we're talking about.

Speaker 5 (37:16):
Okay, so there's talking on the phone.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Also, I have a question so that you could see
what she was wearing. Okay, the second time that you
met her? Where was What was that.

Speaker 5 (37:25):
Occasion at a national convention?

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Where in.

Speaker 5 (37:32):
Believe that one was? You know what, I honestly don't
prefers Oklahoma or Las Vegas. It was one of the two.

Speaker 6 (37:38):
I don't remember this.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Don't know where you met her the second time.

Speaker 5 (37:41):
I know where I met her. I don't know when.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
You don't know when, and you don't know where, right.

Speaker 6 (37:46):
I don't know when, but I know it was either
Las Vegas or it was Oklahoma. That's the only two
places that conventions are.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
So you don't know where you met her then, right?
If you don't, can you just as you said here,
can you tell me it was Oklahoma City?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (38:00):
Or no?

Speaker 5 (38:00):
Could have been right?

Speaker 3 (38:02):
It could have also been Las Vegas.

Speaker 5 (38:04):
Right, could have been it was one of the two.
I don't know which, So you.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
Don't know where you met her exactly the place?

Speaker 5 (38:09):
Right, That doesn't mean I didn't meet her.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Is that the question that I'm asking you, sort of
whether or not to me? Sir? You don't know where
you met her the second time? That's what you're telling me, Right.

Speaker 5 (38:21):
I know approximately?

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Approximately means you don't know? Right? If that makes you happy,
nothing here is to make the prosecutor happy. You understand that.
Why don't you want to answer my question?

Speaker 6 (38:35):
I am answering your question, all right? As her either
in Oklahoma or Dallas.

Speaker 5 (38:39):
It was Las Vegas. It was one of the two,
so I don't remember precisely which one. It's five years ago.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Five years ago, and it could have been Dallas too,
Is that what you're saying? No, And when you met her,
what was the purpose of that meeting?

Speaker 6 (38:55):
Well, when we go to the conventions, first off, there's
the song no meaning or what was the purpose of
meeting her? Check in whether see how she was doing,
what she was doing, what she was up to.

Speaker 5 (39:05):
How her you know, because we talk in between. Remember
it's not like I don't talk to her for five months.
We talked about once a week.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Sir, I'm asking about meetings. I'm not asking you about
when you talked with her. We're talking about your meeting.

Speaker 5 (39:17):
Her at a conference, right, yeah, Hello, So.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
When you when she came to this conference and you
met her wherever it was, how much time did.

Speaker 6 (39:28):
You talk to her through the whole convention? Probably a
couple hours, maybe two or three hours.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
And during that time you were one of the presenters?

Speaker 10 (39:36):
Right?

Speaker 5 (39:37):
Yes? Occasionally?

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Well occasionally means what that you did or you did
not present? What is it I.

Speaker 5 (39:44):
Present at various times?

Speaker 2 (39:46):
It depends on.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
About the second time when you met her, Sir, did
you present? Yes?

Speaker 8 (39:50):
Or no?

Speaker 6 (39:50):
I didn't present in two thousand and seven on the
main stage.

Speaker 5 (39:56):
I presented at the.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Breakout, presented at the breakout and during the breakout was
she in your breakout session?

Speaker 5 (40:05):
No, she's in a different organization, all right.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
And during that time that you were out there, how
many days was this convention.

Speaker 7 (40:11):
Wherever it was?

Speaker 5 (40:14):
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday?

Speaker 3 (40:15):
And how many times did you see her during that Thursday, Friday,
Saturday and Sunday.

Speaker 5 (40:19):
Probably three or four times.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
And people that go to these conventions, they're expected to
dress in a professional manner, right, well, yes, yes, yes, right,
and she dressed as expected in a professional manner, right, yes?
And when was the other time that you met her?
Now we've talked about two times. What about the third time?

Speaker 5 (40:43):
Well, let's continue on with that time.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
I'm asking you when you met her the third time?
You don't get to ask the questions I do. So
when was the third time you met her?

Speaker 6 (40:53):
Third time I met her would have been at a
breakout session or at.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
One of the other or the party that night, So
it's still the same conference then, right, right, all right?
When was the other time you saw her after that?

Speaker 6 (41:08):
After that would have probably been one of the next conventions,
So which would therefore be Dallas or I mean Las
Vegas or Oklahoma.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
And so that's the total of the five times, four
or five times that you saw her, right, that's correct.
And in addition to those four or five times, which
appears that you saw her at two conventions or at
two meetings.

Speaker 5 (41:29):
Right over a period of several days.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
Well, there was this convention either in Las Vegas or Oklahoma,
and you saw her three or four times there, correct, right,
And then you saw her one other time when here
in the valley, right right?

Speaker 5 (41:43):
And I saw her at one of the other conventions.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
What other convention was that?

Speaker 6 (41:48):
Okay, we have two conventions a year, six months apart.

Speaker 5 (41:52):
One of them is in Oklahoma, the other one was
in Las Vegas.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
We've heard that. Where did you see her the third
convention convention? Why did you see her?

Speaker 10 (42:02):
Either?

Speaker 6 (42:02):
It was the opposite of the other one, whatever it was,
so you don't know, it's what you I don't remember.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
It was five years ago.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
Not remembering means you don't know, wouldn't you agree?

Speaker 5 (42:11):
I don't remember precisely, but it was one of the two.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
And during this third convention or seminar whatever it was. Again,
this was a professional setting, right.

Speaker 6 (42:23):
There's also parties afterwards where everyone gets stressed up pretty wild.
Sometimes at the parties they have after events that are spectacular,
fact legendary.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
So you people go there to just blow off steam.

Speaker 5 (42:35):
Tube in the evenings. Yes, they have big parties.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
How many in that time, this third time, wherever it was,
how many times did you see her.

Speaker 6 (42:44):
Jan about the same time? Four or five times over
a period of three four days?

Speaker 3 (42:47):
And during that time you were a presenter too, weren't.

Speaker 5 (42:50):
You at that one? I believe I was, Yes.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
And during this time, you were busy preparing whatever you
were going to say.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
It, right, I already knew what I was going to say.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Well, when did you present the first the second, the third,
or the fourth day?

Speaker 5 (43:05):
The second day? And after? The day is Friday, the
day after the executive director for banquet?

Speaker 11 (43:13):
Yes, apologize, counsel, mister, sir. The court reporter can only
record one of you at a time, so please do
not speak over each other.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
You next question, you present it at this other event, right, yes,
And that's when you saw her again, correct, yes, and
during this time. Again, everyone during the day is expected
to dress professionally, right, right, And that's how she dressed.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
Correct. And in the evenings, is sir, am I.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Asking you about the evening? I'm not am I continue, sir,
I asked you a question, Am I asking you about
the evening?

Speaker 5 (43:50):
No?

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Now? After that, you said that you did see her
on a personal level on two occasions, right, yes, And
one of them involved your mobile home. Right, motor home,
motor home, right, yep. And she came by and she
stayed two days and one night right correct? Where was

(44:13):
this mobile home, sir?

Speaker 5 (44:14):
Las Vegas?

Speaker 3 (44:15):
And the other time that you met her was involved
a telephone or something like that.

Speaker 5 (44:25):
I talked to her on the telephone on many occasions.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
No, no, no, I'm talking about the second time that you
saw her other.

Speaker 5 (44:30):
Than your oh, in California.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
And you saw her in California?

Speaker 5 (44:34):
Yes, what town? I believe it was Pasadena?

Speaker 3 (44:38):
And what day was that?

Speaker 5 (44:40):
I don't remember? Five years ago?

Speaker 8 (44:42):
Was it.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
In Pasadena? What were you doing in Pasadena when this happened?

Speaker 6 (44:48):
I had arranged to meet her there because it was
on the way for her where she was going.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Well, I'm not asking you what she told you. I'm
asking you what you were doing there.

Speaker 5 (44:57):
I went there to meet her, all right.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
And if you went there, to tell me the name
of the tail that.

Speaker 5 (45:02):
You met, I already did. Pasadena, okay.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
And what time of the day did you meet her?

Speaker 5 (45:09):
It was probably late morning, early afternoon somewhere around there.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
Late morning to you would be ten eleven o'clock. Is
that what it would be? Yeah, and that's when you.

Speaker 5 (45:21):
Met her, right, I'm not exactly sure. Somewhere around that.

Speaker 6 (45:25):
It would have been more than ten and before two,
because I have kids to pick up for school and
get to school, and.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
It would have been in between that.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
So it's ten and two right somewhere in there. And
did you give her a telephone or not? Yes? And
you gave her a telephone? And what was the reason
you gave her a telephone?

Speaker 5 (45:41):
Because she needed one?

Speaker 3 (45:42):
And what kind of telephone did you give her?

Speaker 5 (45:46):
Call?

Speaker 4 (45:46):
A helium?

Speaker 3 (45:48):
All right, so you purchased the helio telephone then right,
they gave it to me. Okay, you were able to
get a hold of the helio telephone, right, that's correct,
And then you gave it to her om Pasadena between
ten and two during the day, right, correct? And what
day was it that this happened.

Speaker 5 (46:08):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
I don't have anything else.

Speaker 4 (46:10):
I began by clarifying some of the things that you
were asked regarding the structure of prepaid legal and the
state trying to impose the dynamic of a pyramid upon it.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
What the state is attempting to do relevant? Let me
ask you this, Did you, in your.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Mentoring role with miss areas to help her become more profitable?
Did you personally profit?

Speaker 6 (46:54):
No, not a dime?

Speaker 4 (46:56):
And could you explain to us how that works? I mean,
is there different teams? How is how is the structure
of the nation set up? Where who is somebody obviously,
as you've described before, as making money if miss Area
sales a membership, but who would that person be to her?

(47:17):
How does that link work?

Speaker 6 (47:19):
Well, you kind of look at this as the think
of a prepaid legal legalship like the NFL. And then
within the NFL you have the Miami Dolphins, the Stealers.

Speaker 5 (47:27):
You have different teams. Jody was part of mister Hughes's team,
Chris Hughes's.

Speaker 6 (47:32):
Team, and I am part of a team called Team
Pinnacle or different teams. But I help people regardless of
what team they're on, So it doesn't matter to me.

Speaker 4 (47:43):
Okay, So you weren't directly profiting off miss Area sales,
Mister Hughes was correct? Do your knowledge? Okay? You were
also asked about her income, how much money she was making,
how successful she was. Did you have a direct access

(48:05):
to her W two's or knew how much she was making? No,
she was just asking for help to succeed more in
this aspect of her life. Is that correct? You talked
about You were asked about some of the various meetings

(48:25):
you had with her, and there was some questioning about
the second meeting you had with her. That was either
at a convention as either Las Vegas or Oklahoma City.

Speaker 5 (48:36):
Correct.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
And you were asked about her attire during that meeting,
and I believe that was about a three or four
day meeting. As you described, you were asked if people
are expected to a dress professional of the meeting. Do
you recall that, yes, and you recall telling us that

(48:59):
the expectation was that people were too dress professionally.

Speaker 5 (49:04):
Right during the day.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
Okay, Well, let me ask you just as it relates
to the day before we move on to the evening.
Did everyone always adhere to that during the day.

Speaker 12 (49:14):
No.

Speaker 4 (49:17):
You also mentioned there was I believe you said after
parties and parties in the evening where professional attire was
not the normal.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
I guess right is that I don't want to put
words in your mouth, but I want to make sure.

Speaker 5 (49:33):
Yes, absolutely, it was.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
More casual or nightclub type.

Speaker 5 (49:38):
Attire, very nightclubs.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
And was there alcohol at these parties?

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (49:48):
Okay. Did you ever see answer this as it relates
to miss Arius did you ever see her dressing inappropriately
at any of these evening functions or after parties.

Speaker 6 (50:02):
She was always dressed very conservative, even whether it was
business tire, or non business attirement.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
Did you ever observe her during any of these after
parties acting sexually inappropriate?

Speaker 10 (50:16):
No?

Speaker 4 (50:17):
Did you ever observe her drunk or out of control
in any way?

Speaker 9 (50:22):
No?

Speaker 4 (50:24):
Did you ever observe her exhibit any anger or any
violent demeanor at the parties you also mentioned? And I
want to be clear as well, because we talked about
several different meetings and a few different conventions.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Has what you told.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
Me about the after parties and the after party at
the second meeting of the convention? Is that true of
all the interactions you've had with miss arisis that relates
to these conventions and after parties. Yes, we also talked
about You also were asked about the time you spent
with her in your motor home.

Speaker 7 (51:03):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
And this was not what we would necessarily call a
professional setting. This wasn't a prepaid legal meeting or anything else.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
Right, Okay?

Speaker 4 (51:14):
Do you recall how she was dressed on those days?

Speaker 6 (51:18):
Yes, like slacks and like a turtle neck, long sleeves.

Speaker 4 (51:27):
And that was both days she wore long sleeves. Yes, Okay.
Was that to your recollection, if you can speak to it,
was that appropriate for the weather or did it seem
inappropriate for the weather. In terms of the temperature in Vegas.

Speaker 5 (51:42):
It was appropriate for the weather at the time.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Okay, moment, any questions from the jury for this witness.
Looks like we do have one council.

Speaker 11 (51:51):
Please approach sirce A juror has some questions for you.
To your knowledge, has mister Hughes ever helped any of
the working under you?

Speaker 5 (52:03):
Now?

Speaker 11 (52:05):
How many diamond members, executive directors, directors and lower members
of your company?

Speaker 8 (52:13):
Are there?

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Total number for each group?

Speaker 6 (52:16):
Ooh, I couldn't guess the total number for each group.
I would know there are little over four hundred and
fifty thousand total associates. I know there are about fifteen
hundred executive directors and above, and I know there are
about two hundred and fifty ring earners. As to the rest,

(52:39):
I would not have any idea.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
You follow up, mister.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Nurmi, Thank you, honor.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
You mentioned approximately fifteen hundred of executive directors.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
To your knowledge, was mister Alexander one of those?

Speaker 5 (52:53):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (52:53):
See what any other questions from the jury for this witness?
Thank you? You me step down, ladies and gentlemen. We are
going to take the noon recess at this time.

Speaker 11 (53:04):
Please be back in the designated area at one twenty
five and we will start promptly at one three.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Please be seated.

Speaker 11 (53:13):
The record will show the jury has left the court
and counsel anything else before we take the new recess.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Yeah, when you're We'reticia being ready.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
You see that.

Speaker 10 (53:24):
All stock, Just watch the yellow byex there, cause that

(54:00):
door will open on you. I want you to get
taken out by the door.

Speaker 8 (54:04):
Why to make.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Sure you sure? Just what's what's these doors?

Speaker 8 (54:09):
Everybody?

Speaker 10 (54:11):
Yeah, we have plenty of that too on stuff. You're
gonna yeah, they have no mercy sons.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
Clark kid, I've got I've covered.

Speaker 10 (54:28):
We're gonna go out into the.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Right Captain join the store. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 10 (54:42):
Yeah, I don't know what side you want me to
be on a sergeant pipe yep, I'll face this way
so you can see it.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
Okay, I'm ready.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
We are here in Arizona, and the astory of jail.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
With me is Sergeant Pike, and she will be taking
us through the jail.

Speaker 8 (55:05):
A lot of people have asked.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Why did I travel all the way to Arizona.

Speaker 13 (55:10):
Number one, I don't like seeing the reputation of Travis
Alexander dragged through the mut and number two, I'm very
interested in Jody Arius and how she makes people to
believe her.

Speaker 14 (55:24):
I wanna find out where she is every day and
what she does every day.

Speaker 8 (55:28):
And thankfully Sergeant Pipe is gonna help us get back. So,
Sargeant Pike, where are we right now?

Speaker 10 (55:35):
Right now, you're kind of in the mean, uh hallway
of the Australia Jail. This is where you get to
anywhere you need to go. Visitation is behind us. We're
now entering Bravo Tower and that's where Jody Aris is
being housed right now.

Speaker 14 (55:49):
Well, one that I can guarantee you she ain't getting out, Okay,
I've already had to go through several layers of steel
doors that close and behind you.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Correct, I mean, frankly, I don't know if I'm going to.

Speaker 8 (56:03):
Get it, but I know she's not gonna get out.

Speaker 10 (56:07):
Now.

Speaker 8 (56:07):
Where are we? What are we approachicking right now?

Speaker 10 (56:10):
This is like a kind of a guard up right.
This is what we call a housing unit. Uh, this
is a tower set up for us. So we have
a tower in the middle that is in this housing
units that sort as close custodies is manned by three officers. Uh,
we do security walks every twenty five minutes, and when
they're in the housing units, they have to have two
officers when they're with that custody level of an inmate. However,
Jodyarius is not a close custody. She is a MAX inmate,

(56:32):
so you'll see one officer in there with their at
the time.

Speaker 14 (56:36):
Are all the corrections officers here female.

Speaker 10 (56:41):
That deal with the female No, not necessarily. We do
have male officers that work here. They are pretty much
limited to towers. They can walk in the housing units,
they're just not assigned to dormitories.

Speaker 8 (56:51):
Now, let me just digest that the moment. They're mostly
limited to the towers.

Speaker 10 (56:57):
They are mostly female staffed here. However, we do have
us small uh section of males that work here. There
are some places that they can work. They can work
in a tower because they're not in their dormitory, which
would be them disrobed at anyone time. But they might
be disrobed in their cells. However, there's usually a door
and and the officers are trained to just do their
security walking and head on.

Speaker 8 (57:16):
You mind if I just look around?

Speaker 10 (57:17):
Nope, Uh, actually we have this housing get over here
for you to go into books down. Correct. We have
cameras in here. They have a video in here, so
they can look on cameras. Uh, we have computer systems
in here, radios, so like that. Did you want to
go in and take a look?

Speaker 8 (57:33):
Can?

Speaker 10 (57:34):
I absolutely?

Speaker 8 (57:35):
I don't want to miss anything.

Speaker 10 (57:39):
They can't open it, unfortunately, Hello, hello.

Speaker 8 (57:48):
Or SEC.

Speaker 10 (57:51):
How you doing? How's it going good? So this is
a typical tower for austray of jail. Some of the
other towers in the other jails are a little bit smaller.
So this is kind of the control tower, you see.
It's a touchscreen situation where they can open the doors
to the different cells. Okay, that's good. We don't want
to open all those close custing cells at once. So

(58:12):
it's a touch screen system. They can open the doors
if they need an inmate out. There's an intercom system
in there.

Speaker 8 (58:17):
I'm not gonna touch it. But when you say touch,
like you she.

Speaker 10 (58:20):
Would you literally touched the screen. Right, it's still working
as a touch screen. I think there is a mouse
in case. Uh, it doesn't work any longer. There's a
mouse also, so well, but yeah, it just doesn't panic button.
You know what, what does happen? If the chance to
touch the panic button, alarm goes off, probably alarm goes up.

(58:41):
We have a very loud alarm system in here. You
will basically go deaf hearing the alarm. It's right above
your head, so it it's quite the squeal.

Speaker 8 (58:49):
So now what is this?

Speaker 10 (58:51):
That is a psychological area where inmates are evaluated by
UH psychological staff and UH for their safety and security.
That's a private room so they can have a medical consultation. However,
that's what the panic system is for. They hit a
button in there and we go running to take care
of whatever happens. Now, the inmates are secured to the
table as you can see right, However, things can happen.

Speaker 8 (59:11):
So so you look direct, yeah.

Speaker 10 (59:15):
I mean inmates are housed on either tiers, so there
are two inmates per sell, so we can we have
a pretty good view. Of course, there are some places
that we have better views than others. But what we
spend at lunch time mean the only time we'll see
you around the microwave. Inmates are normally out and about
in that pod. That's a general population pod, so they're

(59:37):
they're usually out of their cells, so you can see
them a little bit better.

Speaker 14 (59:40):
Now are all types of felons intermingled.

Speaker 10 (59:48):
Well, that's what your close custodies are for. Close custodies
here are gonna be in three and four hundred pod
and they are twenty three out of twenty four hours
a day locked down. So those are gonna be your
guys that have institutional history of assaults. They have higher level,
they've been institutionalized, they've been here a lot, They've got
some issues. They may be psychologically, you know, uh, seriously,
mentally ill. There's all different ideas they've assaulted. Somebody, in

(01:00:11):
the case of Elizabeth Johnson got into an assault and
ended up in close custody. So there's all different reasons
why you can end up close custody. You can you
can start out as a minimum inmate, and if you're
here for a little bit, you could actually make your
way all the way to close custody depending on your
your action. Absolutely, I'm the ladder of criminal history there.

Speaker 8 (01:00:29):
Okay, wow, now is this uh glass bulletproof?

Speaker 10 (01:00:35):
It is? It is? It's pretty old. I'd be interested
to know who would stop a bullet. But it is
all our glass out front. Everything in here is except
for the windows inside the pod.

Speaker 15 (01:00:45):
Got it got it, and how many people are good?

Speaker 10 (01:00:52):
There are fifteen cells, twoed with pod or two to cell.
Excuse me, so thirty inmates. Even though in these you'll
see the old fashion three bunk bunks and some of
those we don't use the top bunks.

Speaker 8 (01:01:05):
So why.

Speaker 10 (01:01:08):
Safety and security we have ladders and stuff, but uh,
we found that we don't want any injuries when any problems.
So and population wise, we haven't needed it in the past.
We've had higher populations. So now that we don't need
it so much, we don't need to use it. Nice
can arrange for you to have a set of feeling
might have to wear them out. I don't I'm not

(01:01:29):
gonna ask if you wanna step into one hundred pod
you can go on. Is this I'm sorry, No, this
is basically her pod, just in a different area. This
is exactly what you would see in her cell. And

(01:01:50):
one oh five we have set up over here so
you can so yeah, yah, you interrupted a card game
because you're here. So they had to go to their cells.
So this actually is set up for an eighty a
pod cause you'll see that there's so if somebody was

(01:02:10):
in a wheelchair, somebody was uh, uh, you know, s
dis disability, any disability or anything. We can push that in. Yeah,
they can go into the sink.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
There's railings.

Speaker 10 (01:02:20):
So this is kind of set up for more than
one thing. So if you come in you wanna stay,
you're gonna stay some time with us. You're gonna end
up with your.

Speaker 8 (01:02:28):
Gown and your towels. One person was staying here.

Speaker 10 (01:02:31):
Two actually could stay in here.

Speaker 8 (01:02:33):
They could, but you don't use the tott anymore.

Speaker 10 (01:02:35):
Third third bunk, we don't some of them upstairs or
third bunks and some other pods.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Okay, let's check it out.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
I'm gonna tell you the dream.

Speaker 14 (01:02:42):
Oh it feels pretty good.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
Actually, I don't know what anybody could probably get about.

Speaker 10 (01:02:48):
We'll check on you about six am. See how your
back's feeling.

Speaker 5 (01:02:50):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Someone is fitten.

Speaker 8 (01:02:52):
Today is the first day of the rest of your life.

Speaker 10 (01:02:57):
I guess it could be. Yes, it could be the
rest of your life.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Jail.

Speaker 8 (01:03:03):
Okay, it's not that I'm not bad at all. Oh, okay,
your head. That counts as a set up.

Speaker 10 (01:03:11):
So some things you can buy on canteen shampoo. Some
things we give 'em toothbrush comb so rule book of course,
innate rules they can get uh reading material in our libraries.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
Do you know that's how Crispin.

Speaker 10 (01:03:27):
Clean that is?

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
And how how this one is? Yeah, this has not
been praised.

Speaker 10 (01:03:33):
Yeah, probably not.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Okay, how do.

Speaker 10 (01:03:41):
Uh for these guys, they're out sixteen hours a day,
so minus uh head counts or any emergencies, they have
access to it about sixteen hours a day. We do.
They don't, uh unfortunately, I like they get very limited channels.
Nothing local. It's mostly Weather Channel, Food Channel, Sheriff Joe Channel,

(01:04:05):
Food Network.

Speaker 8 (01:04:06):
Yeah, do Sheriff channel.

Speaker 10 (01:04:08):
Uh, we we have a Sheriff Joe channel that kind
of Uh. He can access and and put tapes on.
We can run a tape like for Christmas. For a
while he was uh reading to the inmates at night.
We put on a tape and uh he would read
us stories to the inmates and I yes, yeah, I
don't know the books, but uh he would read and
it would be over the TV. Be sitting in front

(01:04:29):
of a fireplace and reading Christmas music. We play off
the TVs during the Christmas holiday. Ye, all four Hanukkah
and Ramadan and all that other all the holidays caught headcount, gotcha?

Speaker 8 (01:04:58):
Oh, exce t.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
I can speak, can speak to some right, what did
you say?

Speaker 10 (01:05:02):
Everybody's had waivers, so as far as I know anybody, captain,
they're all good to talk, right, they all signed waivers. Right,
we'll say out here. Okay you do?

Speaker 12 (01:05:20):
Yeah, can I talk can talk about yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:05:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 16 (01:05:31):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:05:37):
Who's this?

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:05:39):
This one's fine?

Speaker 8 (01:05:41):
Hell?

Speaker 13 (01:05:42):
Hi?

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
You know you know Arias Areas?

Speaker 8 (01:05:45):
Which one is she?

Speaker 14 (01:05:46):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (01:05:47):
I would Well, I don't know her personally, but I
was on the bus with her going to court one.

Speaker 8 (01:05:50):
Day, and she's really content. She's a really nice girl,
you know, but she's real quiet. She doesn't really talk much.
She just pretty much kind of stays for and she looks.
I mean, she's a really pretty girl.

Speaker 9 (01:06:03):
And it seems like a lot of the other amates
in here seemed to kind of like, well, one of
the other girls kind of like kind of you know,
really idolizes her in a weird kind of way.

Speaker 10 (01:06:12):
And I was like kind of thought that was strange.

Speaker 8 (01:06:13):
But other than that, she's real quiet.

Speaker 9 (01:06:15):
She since she sat alone, she was real nice with that.
Like some of the other girls that were on they
were like, we're going to court as well. She like
glowing him some hairbands for their hair and stuff like that.
So I don't you know, like you say, she's real quiet,
and she's a really pretty girl.

Speaker 10 (01:06:30):
Quiet pretty yeahcounts Hi you know Arias?

Speaker 8 (01:06:35):
Yeah, how do you know her?

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Few?

Speaker 12 (01:06:37):
Real nice in medical and I go to medical put
a bit and I'm there when they dig her.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
Yeah, and she's really nice.

Speaker 12 (01:06:43):
She said that she did it to defend herself.

Speaker 8 (01:06:46):
She did it to defend herself.

Speaker 12 (01:06:48):
That was her reason that he was going to kill her,
and so she killed him first.

Speaker 8 (01:06:53):
I've been following any of the coverage a little bit.

Speaker 12 (01:06:56):
I have my husband let me know because I love
in session and your channel.

Speaker 8 (01:07:00):
I'm just trying to figure out how it can be
self defense.

Speaker 14 (01:07:02):
As they were taking sex photos and then within like thirty.

Speaker 8 (01:07:06):
Seconds, she was stabbing him.

Speaker 14 (01:07:07):
She said that I don't even want to wonder where
she had the knife concealed exactly.

Speaker 12 (01:07:12):
All I know is that she told me that she
did it because she was afraid for her own wife
and he was gonna murder her, and in order to
not get caught, she did chocolm up into pieces, and
that's why she put parts of his body throughout the county.

Speaker 8 (01:07:26):
She did what she tells you what to put parts
of his body throughout the county. She tells you that
when in medical medical okay, because she's just across over there. Yeah, okay.
Good to have children, No I do not, but your
husband's on the outside. Yes, yes, when you get out,
I get home in January. Delight. Excuse me, thanks for

(01:07:47):
talking absolutely nice to him. Met you?

Speaker 15 (01:07:49):
Bye?

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Okay? Hi?

Speaker 8 (01:07:53):
How that sail the first to kill?

Speaker 7 (01:07:56):
She apparently told.

Speaker 8 (01:07:57):
That she chopped up from.

Speaker 10 (01:08:08):
Reading.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Yeah, okay, that's.

Speaker 14 (01:08:13):
Sure, an, I wanna taste our PaaS me and you.

Speaker 10 (01:08:20):
When did you get into law enforcement? I started here
in two thousand and one. Actually my sister works here too.

Speaker 8 (01:08:27):
So much.

Speaker 10 (01:08:28):
One of my best friends in the lamb.

Speaker 8 (01:08:29):
Oh yeah uh she was little swat team.

Speaker 14 (01:08:32):
They or a special drug tan all red dogs at
or street.

Speaker 10 (01:08:37):
Drugs street introduction yet and it takes a lot of guts. Yeah,
that was a long time, just like actually go this way?

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
Sure? Oh sure, wow neat.

Speaker 10 (01:08:51):
Oh sorry, yes, it kind of scared.

Speaker 8 (01:08:54):
Me, she said. Arias told her she chopped the spotty
up and hid it all over the county. Hm, that's
very hard to evaluate. Who's telling you the truth?

Speaker 10 (01:09:03):
Yeah, we kind of jokes in it.

Speaker 8 (01:09:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:09:07):
We it's as a pen. It's a female housing unit,
so we actually get lucky because, Uh, the females usually
keep it pretty clean.

Speaker 7 (01:09:15):
Do they have to?

Speaker 10 (01:09:16):
Yeah, we have trustees that work in the kitchen, work
in the hallways.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (01:09:19):
The inmates, of course that are unsentenced, are not authorized
out here, but we have we're out at tents where
you're gonna be later. All the trustees live out there
and they have their jobs inside here. So of course
we have male trustees females, but the females come in
here and serve food, cleaning up the housing units, mop
the floor or stuff like that.

Speaker 8 (01:09:35):
Male trustees can.

Speaker 10 (01:09:36):
No males are at the male facilities. Females and females. Yeah,
we back when I first started this did have fe
males and females. We had a a a hallway of
males and a hallway of females, and we were kind
of like traffic police. We had to stop the boys,
get the girls to go.

Speaker 8 (01:09:51):
Stop them.

Speaker 10 (01:09:52):
We're gonna go right in here. This is the kitchen.
I don't have a radio, cap'n you have a radio
to I don't. I didn't grab one.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
Oh there you go.

Speaker 10 (01:10:01):
They got it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
M M.

Speaker 10 (01:10:12):
Fresh citrus came in. We get a lot of oranges,
a lot of grapefruits. Looks good, huh, right off the tree,
fresh off the tree. Yep, we serve a lot of oranges. Well,
as you can tell, it's kind of quiet right now.
It's before we get ready to serve dinner. So everything's
cleaned up, ready to go for the crew to come

(01:10:32):
in tonight and start Truman Child. But we have a
special delivery for you. So this is our brunch sack,
or as the inmates call it, a ladd moo a
lad Mo. And I am not from Arizona, but how
I understand it is Wallace and Ladmo. We're kind of
a children's show, and they would give away brown paper
bags with candy and gifts in it, so they call

(01:10:53):
them Ladmo bags. So the inmates lovingly call this a
Ladmo bag.

Speaker 5 (01:10:57):
Now.

Speaker 10 (01:10:57):
So so they get one of those two meals a
day here. The first one will be a cold sack.
So this one has peanut butter, uh, bread, citrus, and
a snack.

Speaker 8 (01:11:09):
It's good stuff.

Speaker 10 (01:11:11):
We have some fortified peanut butter to go with it.
Make a nice sandwich.

Speaker 15 (01:11:14):
Woh cow.

Speaker 8 (01:11:15):
Trivia jazz.

Speaker 10 (01:11:17):
We we educate too, alright, so alright check it out
and all you get is a spoon, so you have
to manipulate the peanut butter with a spoon. Fresh baked
bread every day, real like, dear, yep, not in this
austray of but we have a whole kitchen fresh baked

(01:11:40):
every day. Good stuff. There you go, yup. Okay, we
package our own peanut butter. We buy it in uh
five gallon white buckets. Uh and we have a machine
that'll uh measure it so they get the right amount

(01:12:01):
and uh package it was pometically sealed. I'm sure, I'm
sure it's yeah mm not bad.

Speaker 14 (01:12:12):
Huh not bad.

Speaker 10 (01:12:17):
How about five days a week? Not as good? Okay,
that does kind of change things.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
Much.

Speaker 10 (01:12:30):
Best part of the day snack.

Speaker 5 (01:12:34):
Test, that's it.

Speaker 10 (01:12:35):
A peeling the grapefruit. I think would be the ultimate
citrus test for Arizona.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
Yeah, are you ready?

Speaker 10 (01:12:39):
I'm ready? Okay, freshness tests? Is it snappy? Ginger snappy?
This is a good stuff, no complaints? Right, are you sure?
That's for real? That's what we say. Time to make
sure absolutely quality control. Oh yeah, okay, as not doing

(01:13:00):
a bad job people, nutritious and delicious. Who does Jody
eat with? Oh, she has freedom to eat with anybody
in her pod.

Speaker 8 (01:13:12):
I mean, how do you pick it goes in her pod?

Speaker 10 (01:13:17):
It's just done by UH. We have a classification system,
like you know, so classification of the inmate. If there's
anybody that has maybe maybe there's a fight between her
and somebody else, will have what we call it keep
away and we'll we'll restrict that person. Yeah. So when
I go to put somebody in that housing unit and
I type the inmate's booking number in to put 'em in,

(01:13:38):
I if there's a problem with anything being in there,
it'll give me a warning. I'll tell me you can't
put 'em in there.

Speaker 8 (01:13:44):
That she's a maximum she's.

Speaker 10 (01:13:46):
A maximum security I may what is that? It's a
custy level.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
UH.

Speaker 10 (01:13:49):
Custom levels are determined by classification. Their bond amount affects things,
their charges affect things, possibly past UH escapes or institutional history.
So there's all kinds of things that go into classification
of a mindmate. And she's a maximum INMTATEE probably and
I can't tell you exactly why, but probably mostly because
of her charges and the bondom mount.

Speaker 13 (01:14:10):
Now outside at the walls of this structure.

Speaker 10 (01:14:14):
Okay, what do you have to keep put.

Speaker 16 (01:14:17):
From the script?

Speaker 14 (01:14:18):
Are there fences?

Speaker 8 (01:14:20):
B wire?

Speaker 10 (01:14:21):
Yeah, all the above. We have a fencing system. As
you noticed, there was nothing really outside. There's no trees,
there's no shrubs to hide behind. There's a blank area.
There's a bright lights. If you come here at ten
o'clock at night, it'll be like you're at a movie theater.
It's so bright. I mean, well, probably not a movie theater.
That's kind of dark, but it's real bright. Uh spotlights
at our officers. I mean our officers walk every twenty

(01:14:42):
five minutes in a circle and check everybody there. So
that's the first line of our defense, is the officer
making sure that everybody that's supposed to be there is there.
You've got to get down this long, narrow hallway. You've
got to get through those big steel doors that you
got through, and there's another door behind that one. You
gotta wait for that one to close. So there's a
lot of different safety levels that you have to go through.

Speaker 8 (01:15:00):
Where do they meet with their voids.

Speaker 10 (01:15:02):
We have a legal visitation area. There are four legal
cells back there. It's divided somewhat with like a mess screen,
but there's a document passed through so they can have
contact with their attorney for paperwork to sign or things
to look at, what have you, or if their custom
level is lower, they can have face to face visitation
that nash stream how it it's probably about an inch

(01:15:26):
and a half maybe an inch inch and a half,
just enough to get some a lot of times. If
it's a a the discovery, it's very thick, very big.
They'll have to piece it through there a little bit
at a time.

Speaker 8 (01:15:37):
How do they get a mulled off?

Speaker 10 (01:15:39):
For instance, make up and hair.

Speaker 8 (01:15:41):
Dye and all the.

Speaker 10 (01:15:43):
Hair dye they can't get through us. But we do
have a Canteen system where they can purchase You saw
the shampoo in there, Yeah, in that cell. That's something
they can purchase on Canteen. We have a list of deodorance,
special shampoos. If they wanna pay for it, they have
money on their books, they can purchase it. There's limit
to cosmetics obviously, no nail polish or remover or anything.

Speaker 8 (01:16:01):
Did they get this every single by the.

Speaker 10 (01:16:03):
Same thing for lunch five days a week is peanut butter?
And what about the other t uh, it's kind of
what we have on hand, what we purchased. We have, uh,
the institutional services section, the food service section has buyers
over there that buy what we can at the best prices,
keep the cost low blowing you know, comes in escape?
Ever escape from this jail. Yeah, Yeah, we've had escapes.

(01:16:23):
We've had attempted escapes. We've gotten them back. But yeah,
we've had escape attempts. We always say attempt because we
always get them back.

Speaker 8 (01:16:29):
Do you I mean, did they actually lay the ground?

Speaker 10 (01:16:32):
The last one jumped off the roof and broke both ankles,
feet and back, so she didn't get very far.

Speaker 8 (01:16:39):
How'd she get up on the roof?

Speaker 10 (01:16:41):
She I'm not saying. She climbed the reckyard fence, that's
what it was. Climbed the reckyard fence and went through
a bunch of other fencing and got up on the
roof and then went to the corner of the building
and jumped off. Didn't didn't go So yeah, wow, maybe
a year ago something like that. We've had a few
attempts since everyone likes back. Yeah, she was in a
bad way. You wanna you wanna see the Yeah, little resistance,

(01:17:07):
this is dinner. You're gonna miss dinner. Alright, there you go.
M that's dinner, and of course citrus has to go
with dinner and your milk.

Speaker 8 (01:17:17):
Okay, what is that?

Speaker 10 (01:17:19):
I'm not certain, but it is a casserole type, Oh,
with your peanut butter on there alright? Probably beans, yeah, carrots, celery,
green beans, yup, broccoli, fresh potatoes. Truckloads of potatoes come

(01:17:40):
in and out of here. That's some kind of a
stew of bena. Dinner might be chicken, might be. It's
not bad, not bad. No, could gets a little bit
of salt, don't We sell salt and pepper. They can
buy that. Oh really, yeah, they can buy that. They
can buy a condiment pack to go with their uh
food if they like. So basically what they do is

(01:18:05):
they they're gonna when they come in here to work,
they're going to take the food that's uh in these
containers here and they're gonna put it almost trays and
serve it out.

Speaker 8 (01:18:12):
Where do they eat.

Speaker 10 (01:18:15):
The inmates that are working?

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (01:18:17):
Oh, the regular like areas. She has the tables that
were just where the cards were. That's they write there, gotcha. Uh.
They can eat their desk if they like, and they're
in their room they're not restricted. However, the close custodies
are in their cell for for food. They're only out
one at a time, one hour day each if they're
not all restriction that time. The close custodies a lot

(01:18:37):
of them sleep a lot. They can exercise. We actually
l have exercises listening in the back of our rule
book that they can do. Set up to push up,
stuff like that. They read a lot one hour.

Speaker 8 (01:18:46):
Did they get out of their.

Speaker 10 (01:18:47):
R what do they do?

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
Uh?

Speaker 10 (01:18:48):
When they get out for their hour? They should Uh
shower would be nice. Uh, clean up their cell, take
trash out, make legal calls. I'll make personal calls if
they can. If they're not restricted from that, they can
do that. Put in tank orders.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
Yeah, hey, lady.

Speaker 10 (01:19:03):
Kitchen your kitchen yours, ladies, thank you? No outside to where.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
Yardy? Okay, to go to reckyard? Case and what martres?

Speaker 5 (01:19:23):
Not the one You're done.

Speaker 10 (01:19:25):
I'm just wanna go on to a reckyard when you
want me going, I'm gone. Yeah. Do you wanna keep
him waiting?

Speaker 8 (01:19:40):
Okay?

Speaker 10 (01:19:42):
Yeah, I don't know if they're gonna shut.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
That one out.

Speaker 10 (01:19:49):
Does it matter which one?

Speaker 3 (01:19:50):
You don't?

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Whatever?

Speaker 10 (01:19:54):
You want to get the keys? Anybody have keys to it.
I just wanted to get a little to go of
which one everything everything alright, we can do that. I
would delivery room service in your hotel isn't up to snuff.
You wanna get some of the sheriff shoe's to go,
I says. We have cameras everywhere, to the best of

(01:20:15):
our ability. We've camera pretty much every square inch of
this place. Some of these cablings are for new camera systems.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (01:20:22):
Some of the cabling is for we have a video
v visitation system in the back for public defenders and stuff,
so they don't have to come down here and see
their clients.

Speaker 14 (01:20:31):
As much of their visitations and phone calls are recorded correctly.

Speaker 10 (01:20:36):
Visitation not so much because there's legal visitation that goes
on there. Their phone calls right the in the main room,
it's uh, video recorded correct.

Speaker 15 (01:20:46):
Good.

Speaker 10 (01:20:50):
I don't have a radio boss, so I can't call
for keys. Can they pop it from here? You used
to be able to put out We just have to
open them. None of us thought I had to get
radios or keys. So so this reck yard actually is
utilize four close custodies cause you can see it's fenced off.
There's a sally part between it. So one on each

(01:21:11):
side cause they can't be out with anybody else. They
can't have interaction with anybody else. The officers to minimum.
We make them lock down when we go into their
housing unit to walk. How many of them go right
on a chune close custodies one, Well, we can put
one on each side. They can talk through the fence
as you can see, but that's as close as they
can get.

Speaker 5 (01:21:28):
Really.

Speaker 10 (01:21:28):
And you'll see a yellow line when you were in
the housing and there's a yellow line that runs in
front of the cells. They can't talk up close to
the cell door. They have to be behind that yellow
line and they talk to and you don't want them
passing things.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
Yeah, what think you do when an INMKE came you
from the graduate.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
Special medical link?

Speaker 10 (01:21:49):
No n no, Well to deliver Yes, the hospital. They'll
go to UH County Medical U Mericoba County normal, thank
you sir. Normally they're in a dormitory. They're on a
lower bunk. UH we have of maternity med call on Wednesdays,
so they're seeing there. They gives they're given prenatal vitamins,
extra milk with their diet, their lunch sacks are slightly different.

(01:22:12):
They don't get like the lunch meat. The nitrates and
stuff lunch meat and has been proven bad for pregnant women,
so they mostly get a little bit different diet.

Speaker 8 (01:22:21):
So this is where to wreck it can do.

Speaker 10 (01:22:23):
We have four of these wreck yards. It just depends
on what availability of the day, the weather, how many
are going out on each song. Now that's for close custody.
She's a MAX so as long as she's in good
standing and is not on restriction anything, she can go
out with her pod mates.

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
Whoever.

Speaker 10 (01:22:39):
So what we do is we just go into the
pod holler wreck who wants to go? They get ready,
be dressed with their IDs, and then we take them
out for one hour.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
Do they what did I do?

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
Out there?

Speaker 10 (01:22:50):
Mostly in the winter or even in the summer, it's
not too hot, they sunbathe, so we have to try
to keep their clothes on them. They try to roll
up their pants or their shirts or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
You get color that.

Speaker 10 (01:23:00):
Some of them will do exercises. They'll have a little
walking thing they do, or some of them will do
set ups or stretching. A lot of times they'll just
lay out here on the pavement. It just depends ope.
Oh wow, don't trust me. That's the first one, the
first time. I hate these keys. Sure this is the

(01:23:26):
right one, guys, right, I believe you just think there's
not an emergency. Come on here, who's a professional? Yeah,
get over here, full d Adam's key. You got more

(01:23:47):
training than I do.

Speaker 5 (01:23:48):
Get in there.

Speaker 14 (01:23:51):
Thank you.

Speaker 10 (01:23:58):
Kay, it's not just me vindicated. Alright, alright, thank you.
I appreciate that. Well, there's two sets. There's two sets
of reck yards with two sets of keys. So reck's
done for the day. So all the people that are No,
you're not getting out by accident, I guess unless.

Speaker 8 (01:24:16):
You shimmy up the top and.

Speaker 10 (01:24:17):
Go out the side with the pigeons. No, this is
as secure as it's ever gonna get. So it's not
covered at the top. It is covered at the top.

Speaker 14 (01:24:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:24:28):
Yeah, there's a mesh net that comes down off the side.

Speaker 6 (01:24:32):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (01:24:32):
With that escape, we were having some work done and
it kind of I think got loose on the side
there and she was able to get up the side,
is how we understand it.

Speaker 13 (01:24:40):
Surprised she hadn't turned around the stage the legs.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
It's gonna happen.

Speaker 10 (01:24:48):
Oh, lawsuits are nothing new for us. You know, either
fortunately or unfortunately.

Speaker 4 (01:24:53):
You can't get it.

Speaker 5 (01:24:56):
That.

Speaker 10 (01:25:00):
There's only two cents, so it's one or the other.
It's a process of elimination.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
We use another one for this or no, it's.

Speaker 10 (01:25:17):
Yeah, I'm up from a promotioniated with Uh. You're in charge, professionals,
you bring them both some case. If not, we're gonna
have to find an fm O. See, we're not used
to rain here. Everything swells up.

Speaker 3 (01:25:32):
I can't believe it.

Speaker 5 (01:25:34):
Everything there you go?

Speaker 10 (01:25:37):
Oh, I thought you had it?

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
Did it move?

Speaker 5 (01:25:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (01:25:40):
Buggers?

Speaker 8 (01:25:40):
Maybe I'm not out there.

Speaker 10 (01:25:43):
Yeah, I thought it did. Yeah. And the key is
not engaging. There's another one on the way. Let's just
go down. I don't know, uh what the deal is, boss,
but I can't say that these are both the cents.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
Right.

Speaker 10 (01:25:57):
Let me just hang on over for a second. Oh
that slightly embarrassing, yes, ma'am. Uh, yeah, excuse me. I'm
used to going through the door first, so sorry apologize.
Which next one is we're right by these benches or

(01:26:17):
these other windows? Are the doors right between those?

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (01:26:22):
Probably not want to still.

Speaker 12 (01:26:23):
And all that?

Speaker 7 (01:26:23):
What did you take?

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
No?

Speaker 10 (01:26:26):
I wanted a career as the military, but I was uh.
I was a little too uh uh, I would say
too early for my type. There was no combat positions,
there was no training, there was nothing for a woman
in the eighties. Ye, so they told me I was
gonna be a secretary and I wasn't real happy with that. Guys,
I don't know what to tell you here. We're striking out.

(01:26:49):
There's got to be.

Speaker 15 (01:26:55):
Okay, you ready, Okay, I see what we're gonna.

Speaker 10 (01:27:16):
This right, can't get anywhere else for various defense theories.
There you have.

Speaker 8 (01:27:24):
Thank you, Thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:27:26):
Tyler may play the ball or anything.

Speaker 10 (01:27:28):
Aw that's like a fifty pounds bullying ball.

Speaker 3 (01:27:35):
No, I'm good, I'm good. Thank you.

Speaker 11 (01:27:41):
The jury please be seated. The record will show the
presence of the jury, the defendant, an all council.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
The defense may call its next witness.

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
Thank you called.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Sir, please come forward to be sworn.

Speaker 8 (01:28:04):
Right up here.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
Yes, I'm d A R R Y L. Last name
Brewer B R E W.

Speaker 3 (01:28:11):
Salmis.

Speaker 10 (01:28:11):
Where the testimony you're about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:15):
Gud Yes, I thank you, sir.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
Please wan.

Speaker 4 (01:28:19):
Me price, Thank you, sir. Could you introduce yourself to
the jury police.

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
My name is Darryl Brewer and Daryl, where.

Speaker 12 (01:28:29):
Do you live.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
I live in Carmel, California.

Speaker 4 (01:28:33):
And are you single, married, divorced?

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
I am divorced, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:28:39):
And mister how old are you?

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
I'm fifty two.

Speaker 4 (01:28:43):
And do you have any children?

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:28:46):
I have one son, okay. And how old is your son? Fourteen?

Speaker 3 (01:28:52):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:28:55):
Do you know this lady here in the blue shirt?

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:28:59):
How do you know?

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
I know Jody because we were in love.

Speaker 4 (01:29:09):
Step back a little bit. Why don't we talk about
when you met her? Do you recall that?

Speaker 2 (01:29:16):
Yes, I met Jody in the fall of two thousand
and one.

Speaker 4 (01:29:20):
Okay. Could you describe for all of us the circumstances
of how you met Jody.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
Yes, I was employed as a food and beverage director
at Ventana Inenspah and big Sir, And Jody came as
an applicant applying for a job as a server.

Speaker 4 (01:29:40):
And how did she present herself during her interview with you?

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
Outstanding? She was on time, she interviewed, well, she was
dressed appropriately.

Speaker 4 (01:29:53):
And did you hire miss Arius at that point in time?

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:30:00):
And you said, at that point in time you were
a food and beverage manager.

Speaker 3 (01:30:04):
Is that accurate?

Speaker 2 (01:30:05):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:30:05):
Okay? And how long do you worked at Ventana prior
to that time?

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
Just about a year.

Speaker 4 (01:30:14):
Why don't you do us a favor and back up
a little bit and describe Ventana what it is, you
know and.

Speaker 3 (01:30:22):
What you did there.

Speaker 2 (01:30:25):
Yes, Ventana is a sixty three room boutique hotel on
the Big sur Coast with wedding and banquet facilities and restaurants.
And I was hired as the food and beverage manager
to run the food and beverage operation.

Speaker 4 (01:30:40):
And the food and beverage operation is that just a
restaurant or is it more extensive than that?

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
It consists of managing the restaurant, the room service, the banquets, cafe,
associated duties with food and beverage being offered on the property.

Speaker 4 (01:30:58):
Okay? And what position specifically, because I don't think we
were clear what position was she applying and ultimately.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
Hired for the position of server?

Speaker 4 (01:31:12):
And is there more than one restaurant in the resort
or is it just the one?

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
There's one main restaurant and there's also breakfast service at
the end itself.

Speaker 4 (01:31:23):
Okay, And so we're clear this was this is the
main restaurant or the this is the main restaurant okay?
And you described it as as high end, correct, Yes,
it's it's rather I was voted a four star resort
by a mobile travel guide for many, many years.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:31:43):
So in order for somebody to get hired, you would
be particularly concerned about how they would present themselves or
how they would act.

Speaker 3 (01:31:49):
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
That is correct?

Speaker 8 (01:31:52):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:31:54):
Now, at the point in time you hired miss Areas,
I would take it to understand that you would be
a supervisor to her.

Speaker 3 (01:32:03):
Is that?

Speaker 4 (01:32:03):
Am I correct in understanding that?

Speaker 7 (01:32:05):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:32:07):
And to further clarify for everyone, were you her direct supervisor?
Were their restaurant managers? How did that work?

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
Jody was under my direct supervision. There were other managers
involved okay.

Speaker 4 (01:32:23):
During your time period? And how after you hired Jody,
how long did you remain as the food and beverage manager?

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Approximately a year okay, so.

Speaker 4 (01:32:34):
You were her supervisor for about a year. Yes, And
did the resort Ofventana did they have any policies in
terms of reviewing a person's work, annual evaluation, semi annual evaluations,
anything of that nature.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
Yes, they did. Started off with a ninety day probation
with an evaluation at ninety days, and at that point
the employee was either kept or let go. Then from
then on it was annual evaluations.

Speaker 4 (01:33:07):
Okay, tell us, did Jody.

Speaker 3 (01:33:11):
Survive?

Speaker 4 (01:33:12):
I guess it would be the right term that ninety
day evaluation period. Yes, she was doing well as an employee.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
She was excelling.

Speaker 4 (01:33:20):
Yes, okay. And in assessing that, it sounds like you
worked with her on a daily or.

Speaker 3 (01:33:28):
Near daily basis. Is that accurate on my part?

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
That is accurate? Almost daily, almost daily? Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:33:34):
And you were her supervisor again for about a year
in total? Correct?

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
Correct?

Speaker 4 (01:33:38):
Okay? And in that time was there any disciplinary problems,
any behavioral problems, anything of that nature where she was
inappropriate with customers or any or anything like that. No, okay.
Now at this point in time were you dating mysterious?

(01:33:59):
When did you you talked about? After about a year,
you weren't her supervisor anymore. So describe for us what
happened within your job or her job that changed your
status as a supervisor.

Speaker 2 (01:34:12):
We had changes in our management and other positions that
affect my job, and I made the decision to step
out of my management job and did so.

Speaker 4 (01:34:23):
Okay, And just backing up a bit, your son. How
old was your son when you worked at Ventana and
you started, I should say a year and a half
when I started, okay, And were you divorced at this time?

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
I was?

Speaker 4 (01:34:41):
Okay. Now, you mentioned there was a shift in the
management structure at Ventana. You were no longer JODI's boss
after that shift. Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
That is correct?

Speaker 4 (01:34:56):
Did you have a new job title? Could you just
kind of describe that?

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
Yes, I was working as a server in banquets and
helping with the weddings.

Speaker 4 (01:35:06):
Okay, so you were then you went from a supervisor
of Jodie's to a coworker, is it yes? And up
until that point in time, there had been no romantic
relationship at all, correct? Okay. Did that romantic relationship then

(01:35:27):
evolve when you were co workers? Yes, indeed, Okay, tell
us about that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:34):
We began to spend a little more time together or such.
Our relationship was not supervisor employee anymore, and became infatuated
and fell in love.

Speaker 4 (01:35:45):
Well, you said a lot there, So let's kind of
break that down a little bit. Were you living at
the resort or just working there?

Speaker 2 (01:35:53):
I was living in the staff housing at the resort.

Speaker 4 (01:35:55):
And to your recollection, was miss Arius also living in
that staff housing.

Speaker 2 (01:36:00):
She was also living in staff housing.

Speaker 4 (01:36:04):
So you begin to spend your off hours together and
you're working together, and you're falling in love. Correct, Okay,
tell us about who Jody was at that point in time.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
Jody was.

Speaker 4 (01:36:23):
A very.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
Irresponsible, caring, loving person.

Speaker 4 (01:36:30):
And she knew of your son.

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
She didn't know of my son.

Speaker 4 (01:36:34):
Yes, and did you how long a period of time
did you date miss Arius? Altogether?

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
Just about four years?

Speaker 4 (01:36:47):
And it began when you moved yourself down to when
you were moved down to a server position, right, correct,
And you two lived in the employee housing. How long
did that? How long did you remain there?

Speaker 2 (01:37:03):
I was in staff housing until sometime in two thousand
and three when I moved back to.

Speaker 4 (01:37:09):
When I moved to Monterey, Okay, And when you moved
to monitor. How far is the Ventana resort from Monterey?

Speaker 2 (01:37:19):
It's about thirty two miles, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:37:24):
Is this resort of Ventana is this kind of seasonal
work or as a peak season or is it one
of these type resorts or is it an all year round?

Speaker 2 (01:37:33):
It is open year round and does peak in the
summer season.

Speaker 1 (01:37:37):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:37:39):
Could you explain to us and why you decided to
move to Monterey.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
I wanted to be out of the staff housing situation.
It's not the best housing.

Speaker 4 (01:37:50):
And all right? And did Jody move with you or
how did that tell us about that?

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
Jody did not move with me. She lived in the
staff housing Adventana, separate from me, separate houses. I moved
back to town to monitoring and Jodi remained in staf housing.

Speaker 4 (01:38:13):
Did the relationship continue after you moved? You didn't, okay?
And how often would you see each other?

Speaker 2 (01:38:23):
I would have to say two to three times a
week okay.

Speaker 4 (01:38:28):
And was there a point in time, whether it was
before or after you moved to Monterey that you were
boyfriend and girlfriend or an exclusive relationship? How would you
or if you had a definition of that type.

Speaker 2 (01:38:45):
Our relationship, I would say was boyfriend and girlfriend and
I would say that it was exclusive? Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:38:51):
And when do you think that was that right away?
Or was that after you moved? How did that? When
did that kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:38:58):
Come about before I moved to town and continued on after?

Speaker 4 (01:39:02):
Okay? Was there any point in time when you and
mess Areas came to live together, Yes, tell us about
how that situation arose and where you were in your
relationship when that decision was made.

Speaker 2 (01:39:20):
The decision was made to live together, when we purchased
a house together, okay?

Speaker 3 (01:39:27):
And when was that?

Speaker 2 (01:39:28):
That was in two thousand and five okay?

Speaker 4 (01:39:31):
And was that in Monterey or was that somewhere else?

Speaker 2 (01:39:34):
That was in Palm Desert, California?

Speaker 4 (01:39:37):
And why was the two of you made a decision
to purchase a home together.

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
We didn't, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:39:46):
And how did that work? Were you both on the mortgage?

Speaker 2 (01:39:51):
We were, okay?

Speaker 4 (01:39:53):
And so it's a pretty stable relationship at that point
in time.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Very much so.

Speaker 3 (01:39:59):
And the home you.

Speaker 4 (01:40:01):
Purchased you said, Palm Desert, Is that correct? Yes?

Speaker 7 (01:40:04):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:40:05):
Why Palm Desert is opposed to Monterey? Was there any
particular reason?

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
My the mother of my son, had plans to remarry
and move to that area, and so I chose to
be in that area because of my.

Speaker 3 (01:40:20):
Son, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:40:22):
And if I'm following right, at the time you purchased
the home, your son would have been about four or five, yes, okay.
And what was the custodial situation between you and your
ex wife?

Speaker 2 (01:40:36):
We shared custody Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:40:39):
So, in terms of this home you were purchasing with
miss Arius, it was going to include your son was
going to live there as well, at least part of
the time.

Speaker 3 (01:40:49):
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (01:40:50):
That is correct?

Speaker 4 (01:40:51):
Okay? How did you come to the point where you
felt like it was okay for that situation to introduce
your son to Jody? Tell us about that a little bit, maybe,
and explain why you felt was okay to introduce him
and then ultimately have the three of you lived.

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
Together after my divorce. After my separation, I should say
I was not divorced in two thousand. It was a
little while after that day the paperwork was official, but
I was separated and moved away, and we were, for
all intents and purposes, divorced. And I was very wary
about bringing anyone around my son. I was in a

(01:41:37):
position where I shared custody with his mother, and that
meant that I was a part time, part time with
my son, and that time was very valuable to me,
and so I made a choice to not introduce other people.
I wasn't dating before Jody, okay, And so Jody met
my son slowly and gradually. By the time we moved

(01:42:00):
in together, Jody lived with us, and I lived with
Jody and my son lived with us part time.

Speaker 4 (01:42:05):
Okay. And how was Jody's relationship with your son?

Speaker 2 (01:42:10):
It was outstanding.

Speaker 4 (01:42:12):
Were they close?

Speaker 2 (01:42:13):
They were close.

Speaker 4 (01:42:18):
Did they spend time together on their own?

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
They did. There were a few occasions where they were
together on their own. Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:42:26):
And did you also go out the three of you
doing events together, going to places together?

Speaker 2 (01:42:35):
We did?

Speaker 4 (01:42:35):
Okay. I know you weren't married to Jody, but was
she's serving as kind of a stepmother role to your
son at that point in time.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
I would not describe it as a stepmother role at all.
A friendly role, a friend to Jack is how I
would describe it.

Speaker 4 (01:42:53):
Okay. This home you purchased in Palm Desert. When was
this home purchased?

Speaker 2 (01:43:02):
This was in June of two thousand and five.

Speaker 4 (01:43:04):
Okay, Were and I mentioned that both of you being
on the mortgage, you weren't married?

Speaker 3 (01:43:13):
Correct?

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
Correct?

Speaker 4 (01:43:14):
Okay? Were there plans for that?

Speaker 2 (01:43:19):
Was?

Speaker 4 (01:43:20):
What was the status of the relationship when the two
of you bought.

Speaker 3 (01:43:22):
A home together.

Speaker 2 (01:43:24):
When the two of us bought a home together, we
were boyfriend girlfriend, homeowners together, plans for marriage? I could
not say that I had planned to get married or not.
I was unsure.

Speaker 4 (01:43:37):
Okay, you've been together, excuse me, with miss Arius for
a few years at the point in time that you
purchased a home, right, yes, okay. In terms of the
subject of marriage, was that ever discussed between you and Jody?

Speaker 2 (01:43:54):
It was occasionally, I can't tell you how often, not
very often. She knew that that I was coming out
of a divorce and I was not not ready to
be married again.

Speaker 4 (01:44:07):
And that was about And was that something that was
discussed early on in the relationship or was that something
that came up later.

Speaker 2 (01:44:16):
I would have to say somewhat later.

Speaker 4 (01:44:18):
Okay. And that was about you, not Jody. Right, absolutely,
And you must have been very happy in the relationship
at the point in time when you were buying this house.

Speaker 3 (01:44:30):
Is that fair to say?

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
I was indeed?

Speaker 3 (01:44:32):
Okay, uh.

Speaker 4 (01:44:34):
In terms of this contract, this mortgage, was there a
particular plan in terms of you're going to live there
the rest of your lives, You're gonna you're gonna live
there for a few years. Was that discussed?

Speaker 2 (01:44:49):
The plan was somewhat uncertain, revolving around my son. We
had hoped to stay in the house for a minimum
of at least two years. We weren't in the in
the process of flip houses. We wanted to establish the
home and possibly resell it.

Speaker 4 (01:45:07):
So was this part business venture, part home? If shall
we say I mean a home to live in, but
also a business venture.

Speaker 2 (01:45:19):
Not a formal business venture, a personal business venture. I
mean it was a home, but we also looked at
it as an investment hope to gain from it at
some point.

Speaker 3 (01:45:29):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:45:32):
And the do you recall the amount of the mortgage
on the home A monthly payment, monthly mortgage.

Speaker 2 (01:45:39):
The monthly payments were somewhere in the neighborhood seventeen dollars
eighteen hundred dollars.

Speaker 4 (01:45:44):
And was that something that was that amount? I take
it you sput that down the middle?

Speaker 2 (01:45:50):
We did. We shared expenses.

Speaker 4 (01:45:53):
And was that something that was difficult for you to
both to pay your halves of the mortgage? Was that a.

Speaker 2 (01:46:01):
No, we were able to accomplish it.

Speaker 4 (01:46:03):
Okay. And where were you working at the time that
you purchased the house. Were you still at Ventana?

Speaker 3 (01:46:10):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:46:10):
I had left Ventana and left my other employment in
Monterey at the time of the home purchase. I was
looking for work in Palm.

Speaker 4 (01:46:17):
Desert okay, And where was Jody working to your recollection.

Speaker 2 (01:46:22):
Jody was working at the California Pizza Kitchen in Monterey
and then also in Palm Desert when we moved, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:46:31):
And I just want to clarify when you purchased the home,
did she have two jobs or was it was just
just a matter of moving. You mentioned a couple jobs,
so I was a little confused.

Speaker 2 (01:46:41):
I'm sorry. When we moved to Palm Desert, she started
working at the California Pizza Kitchen and then eventually got
a second job. Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:46:48):
And do you recall where that second job was at.

Speaker 2 (01:46:51):
A restaurant called Cuisto.

Speaker 4 (01:46:52):
Okay, so she was working two jobs and you were
working looking for work correct at this point in time
and Jack was living with you on a part time basis.
Did was there a point in time where Jody was
paying the home mortgage or how.

Speaker 3 (01:47:11):
Did that work with you not working.

Speaker 2 (01:47:14):
I got a job and went to work within two
and a half months and was able to support my
share until then.

Speaker 3 (01:47:21):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:47:23):
And the relationship was still happy at this point in time,
very much so. And refreshment again, you bought the when
did you sign off on the mortgage at this home.

Speaker 2 (01:47:34):
Late May early June two thousand and five.

Speaker 4 (01:47:37):
Okay, two thousand and five. So how long did the
two of you live in this home?

Speaker 2 (01:47:41):
We lived in that home until December of two thousand
and six.

Speaker 3 (01:47:47):
And how many rooms were in the home?

Speaker 4 (01:47:50):
Three bedrooms? Okay, three bedrooms. Did you and miss Area
share a bedroom or did you have separate bedrooms?

Speaker 2 (01:47:56):
We had separate bedrooms and shared a bedroom quite often. Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:48:02):
Was there a reason for the separate Was that just
for appearances for Jack or.

Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
It wasn't for appearances. It was a matter of the
amount of things we had, beds, dressers, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (01:48:15):
I want to fast forward a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:48:20):
To your life in two thousand and six, in the
summer of two thousand What was going on in this
in the summer of two thousand and six? Were you
still living with Jody?

Speaker 2 (01:48:31):
I was?

Speaker 3 (01:48:33):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:48:34):
At this point in time, it seems to me like
you would have been in the relationship three three and
a half years.

Speaker 2 (01:48:41):
Is that about right?

Speaker 7 (01:48:42):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:48:43):
Is that a yes? The court report needs to hear
yes or no?

Speaker 4 (01:48:45):
Thank you. At this point in time, was there or
had there been more discussion about marriage?

Speaker 7 (01:49:00):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:49:01):
You were still in love with Jody, Yes, and to
your knowledge, she was still in love with you during
this point in time, during the point of time your
relationship up to the summer of two thousand and six,
did you ever see Jody act jealous towards women that

(01:49:24):
you came in contact with. No, when you first met
her at Ventana or first began dating her, I should say,
when you're working at Ventana, I would suspect there was
a lot of females at the workplace there as well,
certainly majority, would you say of the workforce that.

Speaker 2 (01:49:50):
Was the majority of the workforce female? Yes, I couldn't say.

Speaker 4 (01:49:54):
Okay, But during that time period did ever act jealous
at all?

Speaker 2 (01:50:03):
Not that I saw.

Speaker 4 (01:50:04):
Did you ever notice her being violent or having a
violent temper? Do you remember a point in time when
Jody became involved in pre paid legal?

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
I do, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:50:21):
Do you remember about when that was, I.

Speaker 2 (01:50:23):
Want to say early two thousand and six, maybe March April?

Speaker 4 (01:50:27):
Okay, And tell us about what you knew about her
involvement in pre paid legal. How did it begin to
your knowledge?

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
I don't recall how Jody learned about it, okay, but
she did share it with me, and it was exciting.

Speaker 4 (01:50:52):
Okay, do you remember her going to Las Vegas to
a convention.

Speaker 11 (01:50:59):
I do.

Speaker 4 (01:51:01):
At this point in time, I should say, prior to
her going to this convention. I'm trying to get a
good sense here was she still working the two jobs?

Speaker 2 (01:51:11):
She was still working two jobs as far as I knew,
up until some point in the fall of two thousand
and six.

Speaker 4 (01:51:17):
Okay, And what happened you mentioned the fall of two
thousand and six. What happened in the fall of two
thousand and six.

Speaker 2 (01:51:26):
In the fall of two thousand and six, the mother
of my son decided to move back to Monterey and
took my son as well, and he started school in
Pacific Rope in the fall of two thousand and six.

Speaker 4 (01:51:47):
To kind of help make it, help us understand everything,
you mentioned Palm Desert and Monterey, and we've seems like
we've gone back and forth a couple of times. How
far away is Monterey from Palm.

Speaker 2 (01:51:59):
Desert nine to ten hour drive, okay, several hundred miles.

Speaker 4 (01:52:03):
Okay. So you mentioned that your ex wife is going
to move nine hours away to Monterey, and were you
going to follow Jack or can you kind of explain
that to us what was going on with you?

Speaker 2 (01:52:21):
Yes, I was going to follow Jack, and I began
a strategy of how to get back to Monoee.

Speaker 4 (01:52:28):
Okay, and talk to us a little bit about that strategy,
if you will.

Speaker 2 (01:52:34):
The strategy was that I was trying to find work,
and as soon as I found work I was going
to move back to Monorey and continue to support the
household and pay the mortgage in Palm Desert. Okay, So.

Speaker 4 (01:52:50):
Was the plan for Jody to move with you back
to Monoey or what about the dynamics of your relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:52:58):
With Miss Areas.

Speaker 2 (01:53:01):
We had not planned, per se for her to have
moved back. My hope was that she would remain in
the home until we could come to a resolution we
could sell the house.

Speaker 4 (01:53:10):
Okay. In terms of the relationship at this point in time,
was it were you breaking up? Was it going to
be a long distance relationship? What was what were the
discussions about your relationship with Miss Areas.

Speaker 2 (01:53:28):
Let's see, the relationship was slowly deteriorating, deteriorating over the
summer of two thousand and six. By the fall, Jody
had we were still together in the home, but it
was becoming clear that I was moving back to Monterey
and that we would not be living together.

Speaker 4 (01:53:49):
Okay, so you're saying, at this point in time, things
were kind of coming to a natural end. Is that
what you're telling us?

Speaker 2 (01:53:59):
I don't know. I don't know how natural it was.
I saw a lot of changes in Jody. She became
a bit of a different person than I had known previously.

Speaker 4 (01:54:09):
Okay, well, let's talk about that a little bit. You
said she became a different person than you had known previously.
Can you explain to us what you meant by that
or what you mean by that?

Speaker 2 (01:54:20):
What I mean is that she got more involved with
prepaid legal, she became less responsible to the household bills.
I think that she had thoughts of succeeding in prepaid
legal and being able to support herself through those efforts,
and it didn't quite seem to be the case.

Speaker 4 (01:54:42):
Okay, let's break that down a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:54:45):
You said a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:54:46):
Was she still working the two jobs at the pizza
kitchen and puissant? I think as I say it, was
she still working those two jobs or did prepaid legal
become the primary focus.

Speaker 2 (01:55:00):
I believe that prepaid legal became her primary focus, and
she did continue.

Speaker 4 (01:55:04):
To work the two jobs she did or did not.

Speaker 2 (01:55:07):
She did until some point, as far as I know,
in the summer of two thousand and six.

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
And in the fall of two thousand and six as well.
At this point in time, you're living in Monterey.

Speaker 2 (01:55:17):
I'm living in the desert in the fall of two
thousand and six, and trying to get back to.

Speaker 4 (01:55:21):
Morroway, trying to get back to Monroe. You're not there yet.
And this eighteen hundred dollars a month mortgage was that? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:55:29):
Was still? Was it still that? At that point?

Speaker 2 (01:55:31):
It was the same. It might have been slightly more
than that, vers it was the same the whole time, okay?

Speaker 4 (01:55:36):
Was she paying her half of the mortgage and still
fulfilling her end of the obligation.

Speaker 2 (01:55:43):
In the fall of two thousand and six, she had
continued to pay the mortgage, she was not paying other
household bills, and it looked like she was becoming maybe
getting into debt or into financial trouble. She continued to
pay the mortgage into the fall of two thousand and
six and was unable to do so after that, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:56:04):
And that was a change in Jody as well, because
prior to that she had paid all the bills, worked
the jobs, and kept.

Speaker 2 (01:56:10):
Up on her end of the bargain, right, absolutely, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:56:14):
And you said it appeared to you that she was
putting all her faith, if you will, into prepaid legal. Yes,
and describe what you mean by that? I mean, was
she just thinking she was going to be immediately prosperous?
How to kind of describe for us the things.

Speaker 2 (01:56:31):
I think she thought she was going to be prosperous,
Maybe not immediately, but very shortly. And for me it
seemed to me like she was not as rational and
is not as logical as she was prior that there
was almost a magical thinking that if we only believed

(01:56:52):
and worked hard enough, that the prepaid legal was going
to come through.

Speaker 4 (01:56:55):
Okay. And as far as her spirituality, could you describe
for us your understanding of her spirituality? Say, for example,
when you not maybe when you met her as an employer,
but as you began dating, did you begin.

Speaker 3 (01:57:12):
To learn about that?

Speaker 8 (01:57:14):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:57:14):
I learned that Jody was spiritual and that she had
a believe in God, and that I would I would
have to classify it as just non denominational Christian from
what I knew.

Speaker 3 (01:57:26):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:57:29):
And moving back to that time period in two thousand
and six, in the fall of two thousand and six,
did that change?

Speaker 2 (01:57:37):
That did change? Actually, we had discussed a spirituality in
the past, we were not actively religious. Jody did become
more actively religious in the fall of two thousand and six.

Speaker 4 (01:57:50):
Okay, And to your knowledge what church or denomination did
she become involved with?

Speaker 2 (01:57:59):
The Church of More?

Speaker 4 (01:58:01):
And did you how did you become aware of this?
I mean, what did she tell you this? There were
their visitors to the home. How did that work?

Speaker 2 (01:58:13):
She did mention it, and she mentioned that she was
studying it. There were visitors to the home, there were
prayer sessions in her home, and and I knew that
she was actively getting more involved in taking her spirituality
more seriously.

Speaker 4 (01:58:30):
Did that cause any more behavioral changes in Jody that
you saw it did?

Speaker 2 (01:58:37):
Indeed, at that time we had stopped becoming we had
stopped being intimate, and Jody had told me that she
was saving herself for a husband.

Speaker 4 (01:58:50):
And so then the sleeping arrangements were the separate bedrooms.

Speaker 3 (01:58:55):
I would take it at that point in time, right.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
Indeed, they work.

Speaker 4 (01:58:59):
And up to that point in time, you said, do
you began you had an intimate relationship with miss Arius
that when did that intimate relationship begin?

Speaker 2 (01:59:09):
That began sometime in two thousand and two, late in
two thousand and two, after we I had left. My
position had been time.

Speaker 4 (01:59:19):
And it ended in fall of two thousand and six
when she became involved in prepaid legal and the Mormon Church.

Speaker 3 (01:59:27):
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (01:59:28):
In the fall she had been involved in prepaid legal
months before, but that did become the case in the.

Speaker 3 (01:59:33):
Fall a moment run Did they start showing up before
or after this convention?

Speaker 2 (01:59:44):
Before?

Speaker 4 (01:59:46):
At that time in the fall of two thousand and six,
were you aware of her becoming involved in a relationship
with Travis Alexander? How did your relationship ultimately and we
were at a point where we're in separate bedrooms and

(02:00:08):
she was saving herself for marriage and you were looking
to move to Monterey? How did the relationship end.

Speaker 2 (02:00:16):
At that point? I found employment in Monterey and I
moved late in December, and we parted at that point.
And I didn't feel that the relationship had ended, but
it definitely had changed.

Speaker 4 (02:00:32):
Okay, Well, let me let me ask you say parted,
does that mean you broke up per se? Was there
a breakup conversation.

Speaker 2 (02:00:44):
There wasn't a formal breakup conversation, as much as I
think we both saw our paths going the other way.
I was hoping that Jody would be back with me
after resolving the house issue, but it was an unsure time.
It was left open, Okay.

Speaker 4 (02:01:01):
Was she clinging on to you, trying to go to
Monterey with you? Anything of that nature.

Speaker 2 (02:01:05):
At that time?

Speaker 3 (02:01:06):
No.

Speaker 4 (02:01:09):
And so you eventually moved back to Monterey and what became.

Speaker 3 (02:01:15):
Of the house.

Speaker 2 (02:01:18):
The house eventually foreclosed in the following year. I was
unable to support it past February of two thousand and seven.

Speaker 4 (02:01:27):
After you moved to Monterey and the house went into foreclosure.

Speaker 3 (02:01:34):
What was your.

Speaker 4 (02:01:35):
Relationship with Jody like during that time period.

Speaker 3 (02:01:38):
If there was any.

Speaker 2 (02:01:39):
Relationship, I would have to say at that time the
relationship was nothing but an occasional phone call. We were
not romantically involved, obviously, and she I had learned that
she had left the house and moved to the Arizona area.

Speaker 4 (02:01:55):
And so you remained friends on good terms. We did
thank you, mis Suberno for the questions.

Speaker 3 (02:02:01):
At this time cross examination, Sir, you indicated that you
moved from the Palm Desert home back to California in
December of two thousand and six. Right, yes, And when
you moved back, she didn't go with you, right correct.
And even though time passed, you and she continued to

(02:02:22):
be good friends.

Speaker 2 (02:02:23):
Right, We talked occasionally, you.

Speaker 3 (02:02:29):
Were friends then, right, yes, And she knew your phone
number and you knew hers, right yes? And that continued on,
for example, into two thousand and seven. Right, you continued
to have this relationship where you were sort of friends,
where you would call occasionally, right correct, And the same
thing can be said for two thousand and eight. Correct,
you continued to be this sort of sporadic.

Speaker 2 (02:02:51):
Friend, right had I had a yes, sporadic contact?

Speaker 3 (02:02:55):
Yes, And in fact, back in two thousand and eight,
she knew your number and you knew her number, right correct,
and if she needed something she would call you, right.

Speaker 1 (02:03:05):
Yes, sustainable.

Speaker 3 (02:03:09):
Well, sir, isn't it true that in May of two
thousand and eight you received a telephone call from the defendant.

Speaker 2 (02:03:16):
Jody Ares I could have?

Speaker 4 (02:03:19):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:03:19):
Well, isn't it true that during that telephone call she
was asking you for a favor? Do you remember that?

Speaker 2 (02:03:25):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:03:26):
Do you remember that during that favor she was asking
you for gas? Cans in May of two thousand and
eight at the very end, so that she could make
a trip to Mesa, Arizona. You remember that, And she
made more than one call asking you for these gas
cans to make a trip to Arizona, didn't she?

Speaker 2 (02:03:45):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:03:46):
In fact, in the first part of June of two
thousand and eight, she called you again asking about these
gas cans to go to Mesa.

Speaker 8 (02:03:54):
Right.

Speaker 2 (02:03:56):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:03:57):
And during the first time that she brought up this
issue in the end of May of two thousand and eight,
you asked her, why do you need these gas cans?
Do you remember asking her that I do? And she
got really testy with you, didn't she.

Speaker 2 (02:04:16):
Not necessarily testing? She said she needed them she was
taking a long trip.

Speaker 3 (02:04:19):
Well, do you remember that you had a conversation with
some representative from the defendant at some point? Do you
remember that they came out to visit you.

Speaker 2 (02:04:28):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (02:04:30):
And during that time.

Speaker 3 (02:04:34):
Didn't you tell them that you asked her why she
needed the gas cans? And she got tested and she
got testing? I prayer.

Speaker 1 (02:04:49):
May continue.

Speaker 3 (02:04:52):
She got testy, right, I.

Speaker 2 (02:04:55):
Wouldn't say testing.

Speaker 3 (02:04:57):
She wouldn't answer you though, why she wanted those gas cans? Right?

Speaker 2 (02:05:01):
She did answer me.

Speaker 3 (02:05:02):
She answered it during the second conversation that you had
in the first part of June. She told you why
she wanted those gas cans, right, I.

Speaker 2 (02:05:09):
Don't recall if it was the first or the second conversation.
So she said she was taking a trip and wanted
to borrow the gas cans.

Speaker 12 (02:05:15):
Right.

Speaker 3 (02:05:15):
And she told you she was going to Mesa.

Speaker 2 (02:05:17):
Right, she said she was going on a long trip.
I did not say particularly Mesa.

Speaker 3 (02:05:22):
No, sir, Let's go ahead, and Marcus is an exhibit,
and see sir, this is exhibit number fort eleven. I
first would like you to go to the page that
if the overriding the corner says three fifty seven and
read the highlight of po.

Speaker 7 (02:05:44):
And once you're done reading it, okay.

Speaker 3 (02:05:54):
All right, let's go ahead and turn I have that
fat I'll turn the page for you. And then reading
this portion here that's also high You do admit that
you had a conversation with somebody representing the defendant.

Speaker 2 (02:06:07):
Right, I did have a conversation, yes, sir.

Speaker 3 (02:06:10):
And is this refresh your recollection as to the fact
that she got testy with you or not? No, And
with regard to going to Mesa, Arizona. Does that refresh
your recollection or no?

Speaker 4 (02:06:26):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:06:28):
But she said she was going to go on a
trip though, right she did, and that's why she wanted
the gas cans, right yes. And ostensibly the reason that
she wanted these gas cans is because she was going
to get lost. Right.

Speaker 2 (02:06:42):
I don't know that she'd had any plans to get lost.

Speaker 3 (02:06:44):
No, that's what she told you that that was part
of the reason why she needed the gas cans, right, No, sir,
She did come by your house on June third of
two thousand and eight, right before her trip, right, Yes,
she came by and she had brack us with you, right,
and we had some food, yes, And your son was there,

(02:07:05):
right yes. And that was around seven o'clock in the morning,
wasn't it approximately?

Speaker 2 (02:07:10):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:07:11):
And while she was there, you allowed her to use
your email or your computer, right yes, and she checked
her email, right yes, And an individual by Matthew McCartney
showed up also, right. No, you don't remember seeing him
that morning, No, but at some point she took off,
right yes, when she came to see you, did you

(02:07:32):
see any of her luggage or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (02:07:35):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:07:38):
And when she took off, she called you back again
between nine o'clock in the morning, didn't she. I don't
recall what was your telephone number back then, sir, area
with the area code? Please?

Speaker 2 (02:07:50):
What was my telephone number?

Speaker 1 (02:07:51):
Yes, sir, counselor.

Speaker 3 (02:08:03):
Let me show you others. I end at number four twelve, sir,
Go ahead and write your the cell number that you
had back then on June second and third of two thousand,
and it's the same number you have now, corect correct,
I remember what you do?

Speaker 12 (02:08:23):
All right?

Speaker 1 (02:08:24):
Four to twelve will be sealed.

Speaker 3 (02:08:26):
And after she took off that morning, she returned, didn't she?
Did you give you something?

Speaker 2 (02:08:38):
I do not recall her returning number.

Speaker 3 (02:08:40):
Do you remember her giving you a remote control that
you have taken off that she had. Do you remember
her returning and giving that back to you about ten
o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2 (02:08:51):
Yes, I do recall that.

Speaker 3 (02:08:53):
And she also told you that she was going to
head south, right, Yes, do you remember the color of
the car that she had? No, she was heading south
and one of the people that she wanted to visit
was your sister, right, at least that's what you told me.

Speaker 7 (02:09:09):
That's what I heard.

Speaker 3 (02:09:10):
What's your sister's name?

Speaker 2 (02:09:11):
Sir, my sister's name is Laura Mahoney.

Speaker 3 (02:09:15):
And where were you living back in June of two
thousand and eight.

Speaker 2 (02:09:21):
June of two thousand and eight, I was living in
Pacific Grove.

Speaker 3 (02:09:23):
Pacific Grove? Is that near Monterey?

Speaker 2 (02:09:26):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:09:27):
How far is it? If you know, in terms of
miles from Monterey to the Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (02:09:33):
Area, a little over three hundred.

Speaker 3 (02:09:37):
And driving time? How much time would it be if
you've made.

Speaker 2 (02:09:41):
The trip six to eight hours?

Speaker 3 (02:09:45):
And she was telling you that that's where she was
going to go though, right?

Speaker 2 (02:09:49):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:09:50):
And before she left, though, you gave her two gas cans,
didn't you?

Speaker 2 (02:09:54):
I did?

Speaker 3 (02:09:55):
They were each were five gallon gas cans, right, correct,
for a total of ten gallons that would be available
to be put in these cans?

Speaker 2 (02:10:06):
Right? The cans would have held ten gallons? Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:10:09):
And what color were the cans?

Speaker 2 (02:10:11):
They were red?

Speaker 3 (02:10:12):
And when you gave her these cans, did you ask
her what she was going to use them for or.

Speaker 2 (02:10:19):
Not at the time? No?

Speaker 3 (02:10:22):
Okay, let me show you something exhibit. First of all,
let's take a look at at exhibit number two thirty
seven point one. Can you see that, sir, Yes, we

(02:10:44):
see that. It says that there's an invoice and it
talks about June third of two thousand and eight. That's
the same David, she came to your house, right, correct?
And it shows us that the time on this one
it's eight forty two pm. So if she had left
her house at around ten eleven o'clock, that would have
given her ample time to get down to Pasadena.

Speaker 2 (02:11:06):
Correct, That would have given her ample time.

Speaker 3 (02:11:09):
Yes, And it says it's pump number two, and it
does give gallons, right, it does. It's eight point three
oh one gallons, and then it gives the price, and
then there's a payment there, right, is that? Yes, sir?
You can't take down there?

Speaker 2 (02:11:26):
Yes, I apologize.

Speaker 3 (02:11:29):
And the time I want you to note it specifically,
it's eight forty two pm, right, correct. Are you familiar
with military time, sir? Or is that something that you're
not familiar with.

Speaker 2 (02:11:41):
I'm familiar with it.

Speaker 3 (02:11:42):
Okay, Then let's take a look at Exhibit two thirty
seven point oh one two. You see the time on
that one there, it's twenty forty six fifty, which is
eight forty six right. Don't me to bring it in
a little more. And if you take a look at
this other one the previous exhibit, which is exhibit number

(02:12:04):
two thirty seven oh one, This is approximately four minutes later, right,
it appears to be yes, and this is also a
sale for gas. And if you take a look at it,
same gas station, right, same, it appears to be the
same or it's it's the same gas station and the

(02:12:27):
same that it's the Arco a MPM, right or Arco.

Speaker 2 (02:12:33):
Yeah, one says AMPM, the other doesn't.

Speaker 3 (02:12:35):
Right, but one does say ARCO. The other one also
says ARCO on it, right, and both of them are
in Pasadena, California, right correct. However, the one that's a
little bit later about how much gas? Can you see
how much gas is purchased?

Speaker 2 (02:12:52):
There looks like a nine point five nine four gallons.

Speaker 3 (02:12:58):
That's approximately to ten gallons.

Speaker 2 (02:13:00):
Right, that's close to ten gallons, yeah, And.

Speaker 3 (02:13:03):
The address on that one is thirty seven oh sixties
Foothill Boulevard, right.

Speaker 2 (02:13:07):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:13:08):
Then if we look at this another one two thirty
seven point zero one three, this other exhibit, we'll go
with the time. First, it's eight point fifty three PM, right,
see that up or left? I see that, yes, And
that's approximately seven minutes after the previous purchase, which is

(02:13:29):
exhibit number two thirty seven point oh one two correct, correct,
And this one is for Can you see that? It's
for more gas? Can you see that?

Speaker 2 (02:13:42):
Yes, it looks like two point seven seven something, right,
And if.

Speaker 3 (02:13:48):
We add let's just say two point seven and the
rounded off to ten, we're talking about ten point I'm sorry,
twelve point five gallons, right, yes, that roughly right.

Speaker 1 (02:14:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:14:05):
Let's take a look at exhibit number two thirty seven
point zero one eight. This one's from the Flying J
Travel Plaza. You see that in a place called Winnemuccatt, Nevada,
and that's June sixth of two thousand and eight. You

(02:14:29):
see who the purchaser is there, right, Jody Area is correct?

Speaker 7 (02:14:32):
Correct?

Speaker 3 (02:14:33):
MasterCard. It talks about a pump, right. See that number
eleven talks about the quantity twelve point one seven five
one would assume gallons, right, Yes, Let's just do a
little bit of basic math. Let's say the car she
was driving had a capacity of twelve gallons overall, and

(02:15:02):
if you multiply that by thirty miles per gallon. Let's
just say that it's highway driving, that would be three
hundred and sixty miles.

Speaker 2 (02:15:11):
Right, I imagine if you mathis correct.

Speaker 3 (02:15:16):
Mathis correct, that's what it would be. And we have
roughly on the other two exhibits that we talked about,
we have roughly the same amount twelve and a half gallons.
Did you notice that? Do you remember that that was?
And so if we're talking about that same thirty miles
to the gallon twelve and a half, we're talking about
roughly another three hundred and sixty miles, right, makes sense.

(02:15:41):
So if a person fills up, for example, in Pasadena,
given the mathematics that we're doing, and puts twelve gallons
in this car, and we're talking thirty miles, and I
understand that these are just rough figures, you're talking three
hundred and sixty plus the other twelve and a half
gallons another three hundred and sixty for a total of
about seven hundred and twenty miles, right, correct. So if

(02:16:05):
a person, for example, have you ever been from the
Los Angeles area, Ta Mesa, Arizona circ No?

Speaker 2 (02:16:12):
I never have you know where it is though, right
somewhere in this area. From what I understand, it's my
first visit Arizona.

Speaker 3 (02:16:21):
Do you know where Phoenix is? Though?

Speaker 2 (02:16:22):
Right, that's where we are now, correct, And.

Speaker 3 (02:16:25):
Have you been here before or not? No, later, the
defendant came back to California and at some point.

Speaker 2 (02:16:35):
Called you right later as to when.

Speaker 3 (02:16:39):
After Let's say we were talking here about June third,
and that's when she came over to your house, right, correct,
And just for the sake of the day, on that
gas receipt, it's June third, right, Yes, The date on
Exhibit one sixty two is what And if you need

(02:17:01):
to see it up there, we will. I will bring
it up to you, or I'll put this up on
the almost of it. We all can see it.

Speaker 2 (02:17:10):
It looks to be June.

Speaker 3 (02:17:11):
Fourth, correct, one day after she was at your house
in the morning, about seven o'clock, right, correct? The gas
cancer did you ever return them to you?

Speaker 2 (02:17:26):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:17:27):
Did you ever ask her about returning those gas cans
to do?

Speaker 2 (02:17:32):
Don't recall if I ever had a chance to ask her. No, No,
I don't recall, sir.

Speaker 3 (02:17:38):
Let's try to get a little bit of the chronology
that involving your relationship with her. You did indicate that
you met with her or that you met her at
the Vintanna Inn in Spa, right, correct? Did you meet
her in the midsummer of two thousand and two, or
did you meet her in two thousand and one, as
you told us today, Which of the two is it?

Speaker 2 (02:17:59):
I recall eating her in the fall of two thousand and.

Speaker 3 (02:18:01):
One, all right. You did start to date though in
January of two thousand and three, though, right, correct, and
you sort of made it official, started really seeing each other.
Was at the San Francisco forty nine ers game, right, yes,
and that was you spent the night together, right, we did.
Was that the first time you and she had ever

(02:18:22):
had sex? No, and you remember the first time you
and she had sex though, right?

Speaker 2 (02:18:27):
I do remember, yes?

Speaker 3 (02:18:29):
And she was very aggressive.

Speaker 10 (02:18:30):
Wasn't she?

Speaker 8 (02:18:33):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (02:18:33):
We were both aggressive.

Speaker 3 (02:18:34):
Well, do you remember when the person came to talk
to you, one of the things that you told them
was that she was pretty aggressive on the first time
that you had sex. Do you remember saying anything about that.

Speaker 2 (02:18:48):
I do not recall saying that. No.

Speaker 5 (02:18:49):
Well, let me show you that.

Speaker 3 (02:18:50):
Okay, go back to exhibit number for eleven. Take a
look right here, Apa seven right there, Take a look
at read it.

Speaker 2 (02:19:09):
Okay says that, right, that's what that says.

Speaker 3 (02:19:12):
Yes, And you don't remember if you told that to
anybody else.

Speaker 2 (02:19:16):
No, I don't recall that.

Speaker 3 (02:19:19):
Wait he that he did say that to somebody else
or else?

Speaker 5 (02:19:21):
Answer?

Speaker 2 (02:19:23):
Yes, I don't recall.

Speaker 3 (02:19:26):
And not only was she the gross if she was
enthusiastic about it, wasn't.

Speaker 2 (02:19:32):
She the sas mm We were both enthusiastic, yes, and she.

Speaker 3 (02:19:37):
Was comfortable with the intimacy right, yes, And at some
point you and she even enjoyed I believe on two
occasions anal secks right possibly once possibly once couldn't have
been too.

Speaker 2 (02:19:52):
I don't recall.

Speaker 3 (02:19:55):
Then you actually did move to Palm Desert in June
of two thigh and five, is what you told us though, right?

Speaker 2 (02:20:02):
Correct?

Speaker 3 (02:20:03):
That's when you bought the house after you moved there
about a year later, in May of two thousand and six,
when you bought the house, right, is when you bought
the house in Palm Desert.

Speaker 2 (02:20:14):
When we bought the house in Palm Desert in May
June of two thousand and five.

Speaker 3 (02:20:17):
So you didn't buy it in two thousand and six. No,
So if this indicates it was two thousand and six,
was that would be an error then?

Speaker 2 (02:20:25):
Correct, that would be an error.

Speaker 3 (02:20:27):
So you do buy it in May of two thousand
and five. Actually, the price of the home was three
hundred and sixty thousand dollars, wasn't it?

Speaker 2 (02:20:34):
That sounds right?

Speaker 3 (02:20:35):
And the monthly payment I think you said before was
seventeen hundred It was actually eight hundred dollars a month,
wasn't it? It could have been, yes, and each of
you were responsible for half of it, right, correct, So
that would mean that her share would have been one thousand,
four hundred dollars, right, correct. And in May of two
thousand and six, while you were at the house living there,

(02:21:00):
that's when the defendant obtained the breast implants.

Speaker 5 (02:21:03):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (02:21:05):
Yes, she did have an.

Speaker 3 (02:21:06):
Yes, that was way before anything having to do with prepaid.

Speaker 2 (02:21:11):
Legal, right, not as I recall.

Speaker 3 (02:21:15):
So that was at the time that it was in
prepaid legal. She was in prepaid legal.

Speaker 2 (02:21:19):
I believe she was already involved with prepaid legal before that.

Speaker 3 (02:21:22):
Yes, So in May of two thousand and six, do
you remember telling the investigator that the reason she you
believe that she got the breast implants is because she
wanted to fit in in the crowd that you were
traveling in. No, I don't recall that because your wife
had just recently obtained breast implants.

Speaker 2 (02:21:40):
Do you remember, Yes, I do not recall my wife's
breast implants.

Speaker 3 (02:21:45):
Now did your wife obtain or get breast implants?

Speaker 2 (02:21:49):
I do not know.

Speaker 3 (02:21:51):
And the implants were approximately three hundred dollars through a
surgeon in La Joya, California.

Speaker 2 (02:21:58):
Correct idea what the expense was?

Speaker 3 (02:22:02):
Again, do you remember telling that to an investigator?

Speaker 2 (02:22:06):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:22:08):
So during May of two thousand and six, Is that
when things started to be problematic between you and the defendant?
Is that when things started to go south?

Speaker 2 (02:22:19):
As they say, that would be the time that I
noticed a dramatic change in Jody's behavior. Yes, May of
two thousand and six, right April May? Yes, I can't
be sure of an exact date.

Speaker 3 (02:22:29):
And just so that we're clear, April or May of
two thousand and six. It may sound like a not
such a brilliant question, but that's before September of two
thousand and.

Speaker 2 (02:22:40):
Six, right, yes, May, it comes before September.

Speaker 3 (02:22:43):
It does. And during that time is during the time
when young men of the Mormon faith used to come
over to your house during that period starting around May, right.

Speaker 2 (02:22:54):
I don't recall it being May, but yes, there were
young men coming down house.

Speaker 3 (02:23:00):
Have been June of two thousand and six that they
started to come over.

Speaker 2 (02:23:03):
It could have been, right, And it.

Speaker 3 (02:23:05):
Was during that time, in May or June of two
thousand and six that the defendant said to you, no
more cursing. Right.

Speaker 2 (02:23:17):
I don't know your timeline. It may have been a
little later.

Speaker 3 (02:23:20):
It may have been a little later June July maybe
of two thousand and six, but it was during the
summer of two thousand and six, yes, And during that
time that's when she indicated to you that no more
sex either, right.

Speaker 2 (02:23:33):
I want to say, the fall of two thousand and six.

Speaker 3 (02:23:35):
Yes, and you were living in the same house. No
more sex because she was saving herself for marriage, right,
it's correct. And you were telling us that this is
an individual that you knew really really well, right, correct,
And that's what she was telling you, no more sex, right, Yes, indeed,
And she was having these individuals of the Mormon faith

(02:23:57):
come in and talk to her, right, Yes. And the
reason that she was imposing this no sex thing was
because she knew that that's what the Mormon faith sort
of believed in. Right over.

Speaker 2 (02:24:14):
She was taking religion more seriously at that point.

Speaker 3 (02:24:16):
Yes, And that's why she was telling you that, right.

Speaker 2 (02:24:19):
I believe that to be the case.

Speaker 3 (02:24:20):
Yes, And you had conversations with her about this though, right.
That's how come you know this? Right?

Speaker 4 (02:24:25):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:24:26):
And during this particular time, there would be young men
that would come over and they would sit down and
they would read whatever it is that they were reading
while you were there. Correct.

Speaker 2 (02:24:39):
Yes, I knew it to be a Bible study.

Speaker 3 (02:24:40):
Yes, right, it was a Bible study. How often was
this Bible study taking place in the summer of two
thousand and six.

Speaker 2 (02:24:50):
I can't recall how many times I saw them.

Speaker 3 (02:24:54):
And it was right on about that time, though, that
the defendant stopped paying the bills half of the bills, right, correct.
And it actually was in August of two thousand and
six that she stopped paying the bills. Right.

Speaker 2 (02:25:08):
Sometime in the summer of two thousand and six, she
was having trouble with the bills.

Speaker 3 (02:25:12):
Yes, And so then you moved back in December of
two thousand and six to California, right, correct. And then
it's up until February of two thousand and seven that
you are shouldering both your load as well as hers
in terms.

Speaker 2 (02:25:27):
Of the payments, right correct.

Speaker 3 (02:25:29):
And the House ultimately goes into foreclosure and you lose
it in January of two thousand and eight.

Speaker 8 (02:25:36):
Right.

Speaker 3 (02:25:37):
Correct, When you were with her, she had an affinity
or an interest in photography, right, Yes, she was always
taking photographs of you.

Speaker 8 (02:25:48):
Right.

Speaker 2 (02:25:49):
She was always taking photographs, period.

Speaker 3 (02:25:51):
But some of it included you, some of it included me.

Speaker 5 (02:25:53):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (02:25:54):
In fact, she would take pictures of you sleeping at
some point, right.

Speaker 2 (02:25:57):
I believe there were a couple of shots like that.

Speaker 3 (02:25:59):
Yes, she also took nudes of you at some point.

Speaker 8 (02:26:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (02:26:02):
There was one incident in the shower which she took
a picture.

Speaker 3 (02:26:06):
Yes, one, So she took a picture of you while
you were in the shower, right, Correct. You didn't ask
her to take that picture. She took that picture of you, right, Yes.
And additionally, with regard to these photographs, she also took
pictures of you shaving.

Speaker 2 (02:26:25):
Right, she may have a show me shaving. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:26:29):
And with regard to the news that she may have
taken of you in the shower, you actually asked her
to delete it, right, No, I did not. Did it
stay in our camera or was it deleted?

Speaker 2 (02:26:44):
I have no idea, sir.

Speaker 3 (02:26:48):
After this date of June fourth of two thousand and eight,
you had an occasion to receive a telephone call from
Jody Areas right. Yes, she was very agitated.

Speaker 2 (02:27:05):
Right, agitated, She was sad, she was upset.

Speaker 3 (02:27:10):
Did you say that she was hysterically upset? Would you
describe her as that?

Speaker 2 (02:27:14):
I would say very upset. I could not see if
she was hysterical.

Speaker 7 (02:27:17):
She told you.

Speaker 3 (02:27:18):
During that conversation, though, that her friend had been killed
and she did not have an alibi. She told you that, right, She.

Speaker 2 (02:27:26):
Did not say that.

Speaker 3 (02:27:27):
No, she didn't tell you anything about her friend.

Speaker 2 (02:27:29):
Being Hugh She told me her friend had been killed.

Speaker 3 (02:27:32):
Yes, she didn't tell you anything about the alibi.

Speaker 2 (02:27:34):
No.

Speaker 3 (02:27:35):
Did she also tell you that she ran out of
gas on her trip?

Speaker 7 (02:27:40):
Yes she did.

Speaker 3 (02:27:41):
Did she tell you where she ran out of gas?

Speaker 2 (02:27:44):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:27:45):
Did you ask her where.

Speaker 2 (02:27:46):
She ran out somewhere in the desert?

Speaker 3 (02:27:50):
Did she also tell you that her friend had been
stabbed and shopped? Do you remember that.

Speaker 7 (02:27:54):
Part of the conversation. I don't recall, sir.

Speaker 3 (02:28:00):
You also discussed with her though, or you advised her.

Speaker 15 (02:28:03):
Didn't you about.

Speaker 3 (02:28:05):
At some point about contact with the media.

Speaker 2 (02:28:09):
Didn't you.

Speaker 3 (02:28:12):
After this conversation that you had that we just talked
about sometime after the arrest, you had a conversation with
her about giving interviews in contact with the media, didn't you.

Speaker 2 (02:28:26):
I wouldn't classify the conversation as that.

Speaker 10 (02:28:28):
No.

Speaker 3 (02:28:29):
Well, she talked to you about giving an interview to
somebody from forty eight hours by the name of Jonathan Leach.
Do you remember that?

Speaker 8 (02:28:37):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:28:38):
So do you remember ever having dinner and meeting Jonathan Leach?

Speaker 4 (02:28:45):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (02:28:45):
Yes, I did.

Speaker 3 (02:28:47):
And with regard to the defendant, isn't it true that
you indicated that the defendant wanted all this public publicity
that was being generated by this case because you wanted
to get money.

Speaker 2 (02:29:01):
No, how do homoles.

Speaker 1 (02:29:04):
Redirect?

Speaker 16 (02:29:06):
And mister Brewer, did your sex life with Jody Areas
involved for wearing.

Speaker 3 (02:29:23):
Little boys underwear?

Speaker 2 (02:29:27):
No?

Speaker 7 (02:29:29):
Did it involve putting her.

Speaker 3 (02:29:31):
In school girl outfits and pig tails? No? Did it
involve benning her over desks?

Speaker 2 (02:29:39):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:29:40):
Did it involved ejaculating on her face?

Speaker 2 (02:29:43):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:29:44):
Did it involve calling her a whore?

Speaker 2 (02:29:46):
No?

Speaker 1 (02:29:46):
A slut?

Speaker 3 (02:29:47):
No? A three hole? Wonder No?

Speaker 4 (02:29:53):
Now you were asked about apart from your sex life
with miss Areas, you were asked about her coming to
see you in June of two thousand and eight. Yes,
June thirty, she spent some time with you and your son, right, yes, okay,

(02:30:15):
And did everything seem fine?

Speaker 2 (02:30:19):
Everything seemed fine and normal that I could see.

Speaker 4 (02:30:21):
Yes, And there was a couple of things that were
contradictory here regarding where she was going. I want to
kind of back up what was going on with your
sister at that point in time in her life. In
the June of two thousand.

Speaker 2 (02:30:40):
And six, My sister had.

Speaker 4 (02:30:43):
A new baby, Okay, And you were telling us that
Jody was going to come to down down to Pasadena
to see your sister.

Speaker 3 (02:30:54):
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (02:30:55):
That was my understanding. Yes.

Speaker 4 (02:30:57):
Do you know if they ever met.

Speaker 2 (02:31:00):
I understand that they did not.

Speaker 7 (02:31:01):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (02:31:03):
Now, as it relates to the gas cans and where
Jody was going on different occasions. One occasion you said Mason.
On one occasion you said a long trip. So I
just wanted to clarify that with you.

Speaker 2 (02:31:19):
I believe Jody told me she was going on a
long trip. She was going to see friends in Big
Sur and Los Angeles and in Arizona and the Grand Canyon,
I believe is what was saying.

Speaker 4 (02:31:30):
Okay, And so when you heard Mesa or comments about Masa,
when you were asked about it, that wasn't accurate to
your recollection of where she was going.

Speaker 2 (02:31:46):
Right, that's correct, she said Arizona, I didn't know of Masa.

Speaker 4 (02:31:50):
Okay, these notes that I've been brought up to you,
did you look at these before you testified today?

Speaker 2 (02:32:10):
No, I don't know what those notes are.

Speaker 4 (02:32:14):
You didn't approve of what was said or verify what
was said as being accurate. No, you said in these
notes that you recall the missionaries coming over in October
of two thousand and eight, and when mister Martinez was
asking you some questions, you said that it was in

(02:32:35):
the summer of two thousand and eight. So I just
wanted to clarify with you what your recollection is in
terms of the relationship with Jody, the celibacy, all those
sort of things, because when we spoke, it seemed like
you were talking about it happening towards the latter part
of two thousand and eight or two thousand and six.

Speaker 2 (02:32:57):
Excuse me, that's what I recall. If they had come
over to the house in June, it could have been
I recall the late summer of two.

Speaker 7 (02:33:05):
Thousand and eight.

Speaker 4 (02:33:06):
Okay, two thousand and eight or.

Speaker 2 (02:33:08):
I'm sorry two thousand and six excies me hell I
have you on.

Speaker 4 (02:33:16):
Thank you?

Speaker 1 (02:33:17):
Any questions from the jury for this witness, I see
no hands.

Speaker 8 (02:33:25):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:33:25):
You may step down. Council please appress, and that's all
we have for you today. We will see you back
here tomorrow at ten thirty am. Please remember the admonition.

Speaker 11 (02:33:36):
If you have not recently reviewed the admonition, please look
at it. You'll find a copy in your black notebook.

Speaker 1 (02:33:44):
Are there any questions?

Speaker 11 (02:33:46):
I know today you were given a key card to
give you access to the back jury room.

Speaker 1 (02:33:51):
Please use it.

Speaker 11 (02:33:52):
Please exercise great caution to make sure you know where
it is at all times.

Speaker 1 (02:33:56):
Are there any questions? Thank you, have a night. The
record will show the jury has left the courtroom. We're
going to take a ten minute recess.

Speaker 11 (02:34:08):
At that time we will come back for cross examination
to complete the evidentiary hearing.

Speaker 1 (02:34:13):
When began