Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, let's bring in the jury.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Please be seated.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
The record will show the presence of the jury, the defendant,
and all council.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Have any of you seen any media coverage or heard
any media coverage about I see no hands, so we'll
want you may continue. The Court is sustaining the objection
to Exhibits three ninety three and three ninety four.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
Yes, Lonnie Dworkin and mister Drkin, we left off with
some pictures that you already have up there on your desk,
Exhibits three ninety three and.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Three ninety four. We were talking about a mirror image
or a copy of a hard drive. Do you remember that?
Speaker 6 (00:53):
If you can refresh my memory and I remember the
exact context.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Okay, Well, we were just talking about a mirror image
and things that you pulled off with that mirror.
Speaker 6 (01:00):
Image from where these photos came from? Yeah, yes, I
remember that, okay, And.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
The mirror image was taken of a hard drive. Do
you know who that hard drive belonged to?
Speaker 7 (01:13):
According to the documentation that was provided along with the
hard drive attached to the hard drive and notes I
had received separately previously from the MESA police department.
Speaker 6 (01:24):
It appeared to belong to Jody Aires.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And those two pictures Exhibits three ninety three and three
ninety four, are those two pictures that came off of
that mirror image of the hard drive.
Speaker 7 (01:36):
Yes, I removed them from the copied them off from
the forensic copy the mirror image.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
All right, Okay, I want to talk to you. I
want to move on a little bit, and let's talk
about a heliophone that you looked at. Okay, what is
a heliophone.
Speaker 6 (01:56):
A helio phone. It's actually Ocean helio.
Speaker 8 (02:00):
It's a.
Speaker 7 (02:02):
Early predecessor to today's smartphones. It has a dual function keyboard,
so you can slide the phone in one way and
reveal a dial pad with just numerical keys, or you
can slide the phone in a different way and reveal
a full keyboard quority keyboard. And it had some multimedia features,
(02:25):
had the ability to surf the web, take photographs, record audio,
things of that nature.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
All right, And did you look at a heliophone.
Speaker 6 (02:33):
In this case, yes, Helio Ocean.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And did you actually receive the phone itself?
Speaker 6 (02:40):
Yes, I did receive the phone.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Do you know when you did? When you received it.
Speaker 6 (02:43):
I would have to check my records.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay, can you do that?
Speaker 6 (02:46):
Sure?
Speaker 7 (02:56):
Sorry?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Can you challenge when you received video?
Speaker 7 (03:13):
I received the Helio the Ocean Helio phone on June thirtieth,
twenty ten.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Okay, and when you received it, what'd you do with it?
Speaker 7 (03:22):
I secured it in my evidence locker, and then at
a later date I processed the phone to extract information.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
And what do you mean process the phone? Did you
have a protocol that you do I do.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
I would have to refer. I generated several reports.
Speaker 7 (03:38):
Each report had a different objective or scope. I can
speak generally to my protocol and specifically some of the
challenges I faced with this phone, or I can pull
my reports up and talk to each one.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Let's talk about specifically. Did you have any problems with
the phone pulling information?
Speaker 7 (03:56):
Well?
Speaker 6 (03:56):
I had some challenges.
Speaker 7 (04:00):
Generally, with cell phone forensics, we like to use forensically
established protocols and tools that go along with those protocols.
So there are some very popular forensic tools out in
the marketplace that will allow us to attach to a
cell phone and extract the information in a repeatable, very
(04:21):
comprehensive manner. However, prior to these specialized forensic tools showing up.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
In the industry.
Speaker 8 (04:28):
We used to be.
Speaker 7 (04:31):
Left with either using commercial available tools to extract data
or sometimes something as simple as screen captures, and we
found that screen captures were court accepted, and so that
was always the fallback method. With this specific phone, the
Ocean Helio brand, there were no forensic tools and I
(04:53):
just recently checked and there still are no forensic tools
available that can actually attach to the phone and extract
the information directly.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
So I was relegated to.
Speaker 7 (05:03):
Having to just take screen captures to capture the information
from the phone, with the exception of I believe the
audio the audio I actually played on the phone and
captured it over an adapter, a wire adapter that's able
to plug into the headset that came with the cell phone.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Tell me, well, before we get to the audio, do
you know who this phone belonged to.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
I believe it belonged to Jody Aires.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
When did you get a chance to turn on the phone.
Speaker 7 (05:33):
Yes, that was part of my process of extracting the information.
Speaker 6 (05:37):
I had to turn on the phone.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Okay, so when you turn on the phone, were there
any photos that came up.
Speaker 6 (05:41):
On the phone.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
It had a big screen on the front of the phone,
and as soon as you powered on the phone, there
was a photograph of Jody Aires, and.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Then it goes to ownership over world.
Speaker 6 (05:55):
A photo of Jody Aires and another young lady.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Okay, all right, let's talk a little bit about the audio.
Can you explain to me what you mean by you
plugged it to get the audio off of the phone.
Speaker 9 (06:09):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (06:10):
Typically, before I examine a phone, especially when that I'm
not familiar with, such as the Ocean Helio, I obtained
a copy of the user manual and reviewed the user manual. Typically,
the first step is to make sure that I don't
change anything on the cell phone, and so I want
to make sure I put the cell phone into what's
called airplane mode, so can't send or receive any wireless signals.
(06:35):
This helps limit the amount of changes that could occur
on the phone.
Speaker 6 (06:39):
After I did that, I had noted in the manual
that it had the ability to.
Speaker 7 (06:43):
Record audio or memos, and I did locate a audio
recording application on the phone. It's part of the built
in suite of applications that comes with the phone, and
I was able to identified approximately seven or eight recordings
(07:03):
that have been recorded over.
Speaker 6 (07:04):
A period of time, and I was able to play those.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
What I did was the phone when I received it,
it came with a little headset adapter, not actually a headset,
but I had a very small microphone jack or headphone
jack on the side of the cell phone. It wouldn't
take a normal size headphone jack. So with this adapter,
I was able to plug it into the side of
the phone and then attach.
Speaker 8 (07:27):
That to.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
A recorder on my computer and play the audio from
the phone over that wire and recorded onto my computer.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So was it recorded directly onto your computer?
Speaker 6 (07:41):
Correct?
Speaker 7 (07:42):
I did not just play the audio over its internal
speaker and then try to pick it up with a microphone.
I connected the phone directly from its audio out or
headphone jack directly to my computer, and I recorded the audio.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And what did you do with that audio after you
recorded it?
Speaker 7 (08:03):
I saved that as part of an overall report and
provided that the set of audio filing, along with other
recovered items as part of a CD report.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Okay, And then you said you had you did screen captures.
Speaker 6 (08:18):
Yes, that was the.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
Only option to capture call logs, messages, photographs, things of
that nature.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Okay, And what's a screen capture?
Speaker 7 (08:26):
A screen capture is quite simply turning on the phone.
Information is displayed on the phone could be a photo,
could be a call log. And I have a camera
that's in a special rig so to speak, that suspended
over the phone, and I can I can take photographs
of each screen as I page through each screen.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
It's a laborious process.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
But all right, and is that what you did in
this in this situation?
Speaker 10 (08:52):
Yes, all right?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Did you also look at a canon camera?
Speaker 7 (08:58):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Do you know when you did that?
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Approximately?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Do you need to look yes?
Speaker 6 (09:05):
Okay, go ahead, have to check another source for the record.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Okay, let's go back a second to the helio. Okay,
before you do that. When you were talking about screen captures,
the screen captures, did you take screen captures or pictures
of the text messages that were on the helio?
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
All right, Ji approach three n one and three ninety
two ocean you okay, captures from the helio?
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Yes, these appear to be from the helio phone.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
All right? And those are just photographs of the actual
phone itself. Yes, And what are those photographs of? Not
the content, but what are those photographs of?
Speaker 7 (09:54):
These are photographs of messages that were taken over the phone.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
These are the textual portions of the messages.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Okay, all right, and was that something? Are these things
that you also took off then at the same time
that you were dealing with the audio? Was this all
part of your examination?
Speaker 6 (10:13):
I believe?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
So yeah, all right, let's go back to the canon.
Speaker 6 (10:19):
Okay, almost there.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I don't mind.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
He was looking at whatever he was looking.
Speaker 8 (10:24):
You just had what he looked at first.
Speaker 11 (10:26):
I think it was a computer, and I was looking
at something else, so that the record accurately her clients
what he's referring to.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes, did you what did you look at?
Speaker 10 (10:35):
First?
Speaker 7 (10:36):
The first thing I looked at was a calendar I
maintained for my activities. When I received the camera, I
was actually in another hearing here in court, and I
was called down to receive the camera from defense.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (10:56):
I came down and received the camera, and then, because
I did not know it was going to be receiving it,
I had no paperwork with me.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Normally, I have.
Speaker 7 (11:06):
An item receipt or a chain of custody form with
me when I pick up evidence items.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
In this case, I did not.
Speaker 7 (11:15):
I received the camera, and that's why I'm having to
go back to my digital system, because when I got
back to my lab, I checked it into my evidence locker,
and for that, I have a digital system which is
not on my computer, but it's on my iPhone. So
now I'm checking my digital record back from my office
on my iPhone.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Okay, okay, I'm ready with my answer.
Speaker 7 (11:41):
I have a record of checking in into my evidence
locker on January fifteenth of what year of this year?
Speaker 6 (11:52):
And I just checked my calendar and I.
Speaker 7 (11:56):
See that I have my quarter appearance and the other
case on the fifteenth, and so these coincides, so I
believe I received it on January fifteenth, twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
All right, have you reviewed cameras before in your experience?
Speaker 6 (12:11):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
What do you have, like a standard protocol or what
is it that you do when you receive a camera.
Speaker 7 (12:17):
Yes, I have a standard protocol for reviewing cameras. The
first step when I receive a camera is I obtain
a copy of the user manual so I can learn
about some of the.
Speaker 6 (12:28):
Key features of the camera.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
Specifically, I'd like to know if it has any internal memory.
I'd like to know if it has the ability to
maintain day and time. Most digital cameras today do. I
also want to make sure that to check other features,
for example, the ability to take remote photos if it
(12:50):
has a timer built into it, other salient features. Also,
I'd like to learn what kind of memory cards does
it take and how many. Some of the professional cameras,
for example, can take two different types of memory cards,
and sometimes those memory cards are two different types of
memory cards.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
So I want to make sure I don't inadvertently overlook.
Speaker 7 (13:11):
Something when I examine the camera. Once I receive the
evidence item if it sometimes it comes in an enclosure
or carrying case, So the protocol is to inspect all
the contents of the carrying case, all the pockets, hidden pockets,
and so forth, and photograph and document the contents, and
then I move on to the camera itself. I take
(13:33):
photographs of the camera as well, and then, based on
the information I got when I reviewed the user guide,
I remove the memory cards, set them aside. I take
photographs of those as well, and then i'll if I can,
I'll power on the camera.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Please be seated.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
The record will show the jury has off the courtroom,
Miss Wilmot. The images on the screen.
Speaker 12 (13:58):
Thank you, okay, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
He serious.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
You may come forward and take a seat her.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
You can line the jury up. Line up the.
Speaker 13 (14:24):
Jury, please be seated.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
The record will show the presence of the jury, the defendant,
and all counsel.
Speaker 14 (14:35):
Mister Jeremy, I believe that serious needs to be sworn
calling your plan.
Speaker 8 (14:40):
Yes, the defense calls Jody as serious.
Speaker 13 (14:43):
Please stand to be sworn you right now.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
You can sell this.
Speaker 15 (14:46):
Where the testimony you're about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help
you out.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Please be seated. You may proceed.
Speaker 8 (14:56):
Thank you. Hi, Jody, Hi, how are you feeling right now?
I want to ask you, well, let me ask you
this is this a position you ever thought you would
find yourself in testifying here today? Judge right.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Approach.
Speaker 8 (15:16):
Please let me ask you a couple of important questions
before we get back and start talking about who you
are and why you're here. Okay, did you kill Travis
Alexander on June fourth, two thousand and eight?
Speaker 16 (15:38):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I did. Why The simple answer is that he attacked
me any defense.
Speaker 8 (15:50):
It was also brought up during this these proceedings that
you gave an interview with Inside Edition. Do you remember
seeing that tape?
Speaker 16 (16:00):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (16:00):
I do, And in that tape, you said that no
jury would convict you something to that effectory. Remember saying that,
Remember saying that.
Speaker 16 (16:11):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Why I made that statement in September two thousand and eight,
I believe it was, And at the time I had
plans to commit suicide. So I was extremely confident that
no jury would convict me because I didn't expect any
of you to be here. I didn't expect to be here,
(16:33):
so I could have easily said no. Juri would have
quit me either. I couldn't say that, though, because there
was an officer sitting five feet behind me, and had
I told him the reason no jury would convict me
at that time, I would have been thrown into a
padded cell and stripped down, and that would have been
my life for a while until I stabilized. So I
(16:55):
was very confident that no jury would convict me because
I planned to be dead. Probably the most bitter words
I'll ever eat.
Speaker 8 (17:03):
I'm sorry, what was that I said?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Those are probably the most bitter words I'll ever.
Speaker 8 (17:07):
Eat, miss Arius. I want I want to clarify another
thing as well. I'm talking. Your name has been pronounced
and most of this trial areas. Is there another way
of pronouncing any of you always pronounced it arias.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I've heard it pronounced about seven different ways. I say arias,
as does the rest of my family.
Speaker 8 (17:28):
Okay, Well, let's back up a little bit and then
talk about your family. Who is in your immediate family?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
My immediate family consists of I'm the oldest of my parents.
They also have had another son about two years after
I was born, my brother, and then I have another
younger sister and another younger brother. I also have an
(17:57):
older sister from a previous mary of my father's.
Speaker 8 (18:02):
Okay, so let me see if I Well, first of all,
what are the names of.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Your parents, Bill and Sandy areas?
Speaker 8 (18:11):
And are they still married at this time?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yes, about thirty three years okay.
Speaker 8 (18:17):
And you said you are the oldest child of Bill
and Sandy, correct. And you have a half sister that
is older than you, is that right?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yes, she's five years older than me.
Speaker 8 (18:33):
And that is your father's daughter.
Speaker 16 (18:36):
Yes, from a previous marriage.
Speaker 8 (18:38):
Okay. And you have a brother that's two years younger
than you, right, yes, okay? And what is his name?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
His name is Carl.
Speaker 8 (18:50):
And you mentioned a I believe the next youngest would
have been another sister.
Speaker 16 (18:56):
What was your name? Angela?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Kay?
Speaker 8 (18:59):
And youngest brother who is he?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Joseph? Okay?
Speaker 8 (19:04):
And just so we get a bit of separation, how
much younger than you is Angela?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Angela was born when I was eleven, and Joseph was
born when I was thirteen.
Speaker 8 (19:13):
And what a year were you born?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Nineteen eighty?
Speaker 8 (19:19):
Do you remember where you grew up?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah? I grew up in a few different cities. I
was born in Salinas, California, and I lived there until
I was almost twelve.
Speaker 8 (19:29):
And what was life like in Salina's.
Speaker 16 (19:34):
For the first years of my life? It was really good.
Speaker 8 (19:39):
When you said that, let's look before you continue, let's clarify.
What do you mean by first years?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I would say, until about age seven, it was a
fairly ideal childhood.
Speaker 8 (19:50):
Okay, what do you Different people have different meanings when
they say ideal, So why don't you describe for us
what you mean by idea of childhood?
Speaker 16 (20:00):
I have predominantly positive memories of my childhood at that time.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
My brother and I lived in When I was about
four years old, we moved to a house in a
cul de sac. We had the center lot, so it
was a huge backyard and We had a lot of
places to play there. There were trees to climb, there
were other kids in the neighborhood and in the cul
de sac that we played with. We were close in age,
(20:26):
so we were. My family traveled a lot. We went camping.
We went to all the theme parks in California.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
Did you go to school?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Of course, yes, I went to school.
Speaker 8 (20:39):
And you went to grade school in Salinas.
Speaker 17 (20:42):
Then yes, I went to a private school for about
three years.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
And then a public school.
Speaker 8 (20:50):
Were you in carl And school together? Did you go
to different schools?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
We were in school together. I was held back in kindergarten,
so even though we're two years apart, he was only
one grade behind me.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
And tell us about your parents at that time to
your recollection, were they both working? Was your mom at home?
Tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, when I was younger, I remember my mom used
to work. I guess she was working as a server
with my dad. He owned restaurants my whole life, and
then when I was around eleven or twelve, she became
a dental assistant.
Speaker 8 (21:23):
Okay, and you mentioned your life was, well, let me
ask you a question. Do you remember what your interests
were as a child.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yes, I had pets, cats, dog fish, I had a rat.
Speaker 16 (21:39):
I loved animals.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
We had a lot of pets. My brother had frogs,
things like that. We played a lot of pop Scotch
and two square when we were younger. We went roller skating.
They didn't really have rollerblades yet, or at least that
we used. We rode bikes a lot. We did a
(22:03):
lot of camping. I'm sorry, I kind of forgot the question.
Speaker 8 (22:10):
Well, you're speaking very quietly. Are you nervous today?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, yes I am.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yes, okay, very nervous.
Speaker 8 (22:17):
Could you do me a favor and pull the mic
a little closer to you, Jody. One of the things
that you said a couple questions ago when we were
speaking is that your life was pretty ideal up until
about age seven. It is something different after age seven or.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
It seemed like, well my parents would just you know,
spank us or hit us as disciplined. So it seemed
like at age seven around then, it started getting a
little bit more intense. That's something I remember.
Speaker 8 (22:56):
You said they started spanking here.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Well, I was saying before on occasion, just it seemed
like the frequency and the intensity of it increased.
Speaker 16 (23:04):
Around that age.
Speaker 8 (23:06):
What do you mean by that frequency and intensity?
Speaker 16 (23:11):
Well, just.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
There were I think that's the first year my dad
started using a belt. My mom began to carry a
wooden spoon in her purse to stand.
Speaker 13 (23:26):
All right, let's bring in the jury.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Please be seated the record.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
We'll show the presence of the jury, the dependent and
our council may continue with redirect.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Thank you, ETI, good afternoon.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Mister Dorkin, good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I just have just a few questions I think for
you with regard to with regard to exhipt At four nineteen,
and that's the exhibit four nineteen. That's the exhibit of
the history that you created on mister Alexander's computer, or
that you looked at mister Alexander's computer.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
Yes, is that right?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
All right? And this was you said. These entries that
we specifically looked at were between somewhere between four in
the morning to four thirty five in the morning. Yes,
were there many more.
Speaker 6 (24:31):
Entries than that in that time frame?
Speaker 8 (24:33):
Were in total?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
No total, at the Internet history that you looked.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
At, there were approximately.
Speaker 7 (24:41):
Almost one hundred thousand, like nine hundred and ninety It
was like a ninety nine thousand plus entries, okay.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And these ones that we specifically looked at, and Exhibit
four nineteen had to do with the time timing of
around four or four thirty in the morning.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
Is that right correctly?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Were you asked to ever look at any of the
YouTube videos? We've asked some questions about a mirror image
the hard drive?
Speaker 10 (25:08):
Yes, okay?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Did you have access to the actual hard drive itself?
Speaker 6 (25:14):
Which hard drive are you referring to.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Miss areas? Is the broken one.
Speaker 10 (25:17):
The broken one?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Okay. Did you have access to the broken hard drive?
Speaker 15 (25:22):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (25:22):
I had the forensic copy of the.
Speaker 8 (25:23):
Broken hard drive.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Did you actually see the broken hard drive?
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Also?
Speaker 6 (25:27):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And when you got a mere image of that broken
hard drive, is that just something that you can just
kind of plug into a computer and any one of
us can look at what's on it?
Speaker 7 (25:40):
The forensic copy's copy is in a forensic format, so
you would need to have a viewer that can view
that type of format or the forensic tool.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
That created it.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
So, and what kind of viewer did you have?
Speaker 7 (25:54):
I have the forensic tool that has a built in
ability to view it called end case.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Okay. So is that something that you had to use
on the mirror image before you can pull up any
of these images. Yes, And about how many images or
photos were contained on that mirror image of Mysterius's hard.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
I have to check my record. I don't know that
off hand.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Okay. Even about numbers.
Speaker 6 (26:19):
I don't know off hand.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Okay, can I check sure and let us know what
you're referring.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
I'd have to load up one of my CDs. I
don't have a preloaded on the computer.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
All right, Well, let me ask you this way. There
was when you used n case. Did you come up
with around one hundred over one hundred different files when
I used end case, When you used end case on
the mirror image of the.
Speaker 7 (26:43):
Broken hard drive, I remember there was a very large number,
literally thousands of images and files that we recovered.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
Okay, I just can't give you the exact number right now.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
That's okay, that's that's that's really my question. So there
was thousands of.
Speaker 7 (26:57):
Images, but yes, there were thousands of It took days
to recover the information, had to run recovery scripts for
quite some time.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
When you say days, do you mean did you leave
the end case or the recovery program running for days?
Speaker 6 (27:12):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
And is that in order to help help it retrieve
everything off of the mirror image. Yes, okay, thank you,
touch nothing for them.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Looks like we have one question for major perhaps two
the council please approach.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Mister Jorkan Ainger.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Has some questions for you. Our date and time stamps
on photos taken by digital cameras able to be manually
changed and or manipulated?
Speaker 6 (27:44):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Could that occur before a photo was taken or after
a photo was taken?
Speaker 7 (27:53):
The file wouldn't have existed prior to the photo being taken,
so you couldn't do it before the photo or the
file would actually actually have to exist.
Speaker 6 (28:01):
And then go in after the fact and then manipulate it.
The only other way to do that.
Speaker 7 (28:05):
Would, of course, would be to change the date time
setting in the camera itself.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Any other questions from the jurors follow up?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I had to exit information as well.
Speaker 7 (28:22):
Yes, if the cameras you're referring to my comment about
the cameras day and time, Yes, if the day and
time in the camera is changed, the exit can only
contain the information that the camera has access to.
Speaker 6 (28:35):
So if the camera thinks.
Speaker 7 (28:36):
It's this particular day and time, that's what's going to
be incorporated in the exit data and would also most
likely be reflected in the filesystem data as well.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
And when you did you were you able to turn
on this cannon camera.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
I may have been able to turn it on.
Speaker 7 (28:51):
I did not attempt to because I knew that the
camera had been seized in storage for quite a long time,
and usually the date time information is lost, and since
there wasn't a specific reason to do it at the
time I was asked to, and I did not.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And did you see any evidence of manipulation of time
and date stamps?
Speaker 7 (29:14):
No, nothing struck me as being out of order. I
did do an inspection.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
A casual or informal inspection.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
While I looked at the ex of data, I also
looked at the filesystem data to see if they were
out of alignment, and they all seemed to match. So
I didn't find anything out of the ordinary or unusual.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
All right, thank you nothing for the job, mister Martinez.
Speaker 8 (29:40):
So with regard to.
Speaker 11 (29:43):
Exhibit number four thirteen, which is one of the photographs,
is it possible that, for example, this particular photograph, that
it was taken in two thousand and seven and then
uploaded or downloaded or whatever it is that one does
onto the camera in two thousand.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
Anything's possible.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Okay, thank you.
Speaker 16 (30:05):
Any other questions from the jury, Thank you, sir.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
You may step down. I may call your next witness.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Brian good name O.
Speaker 8 (30:20):
Come we keep it right on the spot.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Yes, sir, mister dorg and you are still under subpoena.
Speaker 10 (30:27):
It's Brian b r y a n new Master any
you amy?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I have you saw me swell?
Speaker 15 (30:34):
The testimony you're about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing about the truth.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
So help you God, I do. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Please walk right around here. We have you.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Proceed, Thank you, good afternoon. Could you tell us your
name please?
Speaker 10 (30:49):
It's Brian Newmeister b r y a n any u
M I s T E R. I'm with us a
forensic and what is us a forensic?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
What do you do?
Speaker 18 (30:59):
We do date of the art audio and video enhancement
for trials and for military and.
Speaker 10 (31:04):
Other uses, holeng.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Have you been doing that.
Speaker 18 (31:07):
Type of work working professionally with audio and video for
thirty two years?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
And so what kind of experience do you have in
order to forensically do what you do now?
Speaker 18 (31:19):
I'm a certified forensic expert in military, federal, state, civil,
and Aviation courts. I work with the United States District
Courts as a contracted technical expert. I've worked with the
United States Grand Jury as a contracted technical expert.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Mister Moster, let me stop you right there. Are you
referring to something? Are you referring to something as you're
telling us?
Speaker 18 (31:44):
Yes, I'm just grabbing some highlights off the CV. It
makes it easier to remember.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Okay, can I get that marked?
Speaker 10 (31:50):
Just sure?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Okay, I'm sorry. Did you so you were telling us?
Speaker 10 (32:02):
Again?
Speaker 18 (32:03):
With the United States District Courts as a contracted technical expert,
United States Grand Jury contract contracted technical expert, US Department
of Justice contracted technical expert a member. And I say
I am or have been. And the reason I say that,
I never know if the dues are paid up this
early in the year. But the Audio Engineering Society, the
(32:24):
American College of Forensic Experts are actually the American College
of Forensic Examiners, the American College of Forensic Examiners International,
the American Board of Recorded Evidence. I work also with
the Department of Defense and contractors unclassified and unclassified forensic materials.
The Department of Energy, a number of state and local
(32:49):
law enforcement agencies. Actually, I'm working with all three agencies
involved in this case right now that on different cases.
I'm working with the prosecution on a number of other cases,
I'm working with your firm, also with the Public Defender's Office,
and also with I believe Mason Police is involved in
this too. I'm working for Mason Police. I'm currently working
(33:12):
on cases for the Phoenix Police Department and the Department
of Public Safety Special Investigations Unit. So my basic job
is to just sort off the facts so that you
have it to work with. I don't really take a side.
I just analyze data, and we have two labs and
we have very high end equipment, so we're very often
(33:34):
if law enforcement agencies can't do it or need it
done quickly, they come to us because we have where
they're operating servers, we're operating fiber optic Terra blocks, so
we have quite a bit more horsepower than most forensic
agencies do.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
So it sounds like you work on a lot of
different types of cases.
Speaker 18 (33:51):
Yeah, I've worked in inner four twenty three different countries
on different cases, and I do work a lot of homicides, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
And when you're talking about work, what type of work
are we talking about?
Speaker 10 (34:03):
Enhancing audio?
Speaker 18 (34:04):
For example, nine one one calls, people might want to
know what's called, what's the conversation in the background of
the call, what happened in the background. Can you clean
up the call? Surveillance video? Can you enhance what's on
the surveillance video? Can you recover any video that might
have been erased from a surveillance camera?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
That sort of thing, and is that what?
Speaker 6 (34:29):
So?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Is that basically your experience that you have in working
with the sound in audio, I'm sorry, sound and video.
Speaker 18 (34:36):
I have quite a few Emmy awards from the National
Associations of Television, Arts and Sciences, actually quite a slew
of them for your technical and audio video expertise.
Speaker 10 (34:46):
I've also on audio awards.
Speaker 18 (34:48):
The Gold for at the can Film Festival for Audio
as well as the Calgary Film Festival for Audio. I've
worked a lot in television.
Speaker 10 (34:57):
For I'll just.
Speaker 18 (35:00):
In the film industry for companies like NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, BBC, Fox, DreamWorks,
Screen Gyms, Films, Touchstone, Lucas Arts, Universal Studios, Laura Mare, Trimark, Ginnett.
Speaker 10 (35:21):
Quite a few all.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Right, and so is this what you've been doing for
the past thirty two years.
Speaker 18 (35:24):
Yes, that, and also we do quite a bit of
audio work for audio that's been damaged from television shows
that needs to be fixed.
Speaker 10 (35:33):
But for example, most of our work is legal.
Speaker 18 (35:38):
We've done over two hundred cases in the last thirty
six months, worked on evidence in over two hundred cases.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
And have you been certified as a forensic expert yes?
Speaker 18 (35:49):
In federal, state, civil and aviation and military corpse Yes.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Okay. Were you retained in this case?
Speaker 8 (35:59):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
And what were you asked to do?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
What did you do?
Speaker 10 (36:02):
I was retained.
Speaker 18 (36:05):
Back in September, I believe September fifteenth of twenty ten,
and I was asked to enhance an audio recording that
was made from a telephone where the person speaking on
the phone had recorded the audio and the person on
the other side could not be heard very well. So
I was asked to clear it up and clean it up.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Okay, can you walk us through the process of what
you do is sure to clean up audio?
Speaker 10 (36:30):
Sure? Is there a way we could activate that computer?
Speaker 8 (36:35):
Judge?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
There are the computers on there are some sonographs and
things that I think will help demonstrate what mister Newmeister,
does may I show.
Speaker 14 (36:47):
The approach.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
She was extended number four?
Speaker 10 (36:55):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
That's a DVD. Do you know what that complain that contains.
Speaker 18 (36:58):
Yes, it contains a number of screen grabs of the
protocol we use for this particular job.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Okay. And when you talk about protocols, what does that mean?
Speaker 18 (37:09):
We have to follow a certain set of standards to
make sure we can reproduce the work or another forensic
agency can reproduce the work. So we basically catalog as
we're going the steps we take, all right.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
And is that what's contained on the DVD of exhibit
for twenty nine?
Speaker 8 (37:26):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (37:28):
And did you create these?
Speaker 10 (37:29):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Judge, Defense moved into evidence exhibit for twenty nine. No
objection for twenty nine is ignited, all right, And that
is what's in exhibit for twenty nine. Is that currently
on your computer?
Speaker 6 (37:43):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Okay? And so for ease of process, Judge, if I
can rather than pop the DVD and use the computer,
you may.
Speaker 11 (37:51):
Okay?
Speaker 10 (37:51):
Okay.
Speaker 18 (37:52):
The first screen I received from your from ex mister
Ermey's office was a recording. There are actually seven recordings
from a telephone and I was asked to clean them
up before we can clean them up, we have to
figure out what frequencies we need to work with. So
(38:13):
if you look at the human voice, as goes from
about three hundred hertz to about four thousand hertz, speech
range from the lows to the highs, but there are
sibilants or transients like or those kind of words like
st that can go up to nine thousand herts. So
when we're going to enhance a bit of audio, we
(38:33):
need to first look at it physically on a graph
to figure out what frequencies we have to work with.
This particular audio recording was take an analog which means
out of an earphone jack into a digital recorder as
an MP three file at a bit rate of one
hundred and twenty eight kilobytes per second, which is not
(38:54):
a particularly good quality, but it's adequate for human voice.
So we determine here see a little yellow line called
the Niquist theorem, and that means that the sample rate
was fairly low.
Speaker 10 (39:06):
I'm going to be very generic on this. The sample
rates very.
Speaker 18 (39:09):
Low, which means the sibilance is going to be very
low on this particular recording.
Speaker 10 (39:15):
So you can go to the.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Next slide Okay.
Speaker 18 (39:18):
The next again looks at what's called a spectrograph, and
again you can see the top audio frequencies are topping
out around four thousand hurts and maybe a difficult to see.
What that means is a lot of the sibilants and
transient things that make speech very understandable are missing. So
(39:38):
we realize that we have to clean it up a
bit and enhance it. And what I learned from looking
at that recording is that the recording on the telephone
was made at about eight killer hertz, which was the
sample rate.
Speaker 10 (39:50):
And again this is just for the record.
Speaker 18 (39:52):
You may not understand it, or you can ask questions
and then be happy to answer it. But basically, in
plain English, it's not a very good recording. So my
job was to make it basically more intelligible.
Speaker 10 (40:05):
So let's go to the next slide.
Speaker 18 (40:08):
This real quickly, I'm just looking at how I'm going
to change the audio to better work with We changed
the file from a using a process called isotope. We
changed it from a wave empty three file into a
forty four point one twenty four bit wave file, and
(40:28):
you can you can see the noise kind of on
the top and on the bottom, and when you go
to the next slide, you can see that a lot
of that noise has gone away. Can you go back
to the previous slide just by the opposite arrow, look
on the top above the orange the noise it's up.
There's a little difficult to see on that graph. But
(40:48):
then go to the next one, and what I've done
is I've narrowed the voice frequency between three hundred hertz
and thirty four hundred hertz, and that's a pretty good
range to for the human voice.
Speaker 10 (41:01):
Next line.
Speaker 18 (41:04):
Since it was made from a cell phone, the audio
was taken into a product called DC eight Live Forensics,
where I eliminated some of the noises and background hum
and stuff that is associated with cell phones. So you know,
some of the noise you might get behind your cell phone,
some of the white noise or buzz that was eliminated
(41:25):
using that process.
Speaker 10 (41:27):
Next slide.
Speaker 8 (41:30):
Here.
Speaker 18 (41:30):
Because we were limited to some of the sibilance that
I talked about earlier, the s sounds and whatever, we
used a little bit of what's called a vocal enhancer
to bring up the kind of i'll simply say the
trouble so that it's easier to understand what people are saying,
next line. And finally, just before we finalize it, we
(41:53):
use a computer algorithm to remove the remaining background hiss
or noise that would be on a record and next night.
And finally, in order to bring up mister Alexander's voice
to that of miss Aria's voice, we use a program
called waves compression where we can set bring the voices
(42:14):
to be equal.
Speaker 10 (42:15):
Because very often, if it's a telephone.
Speaker 18 (42:17):
Recording, the person speaking is very loud and the person
on the on the other end it's very hard to hear.
Speaker 10 (42:24):
So in order to make it.
Speaker 18 (42:27):
So that you can hear it better, we normalize it
and make it so that the audio files or the
voice tracks are an equal decibel levels.
Speaker 10 (42:38):
That's all I needed right there.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Okay, Ultimately, did you when you finished enhancing this audio,
did you put it onto a DVD?
Speaker 8 (42:48):
Yes?
Speaker 18 (42:48):
I didn't show that because what I did is I
added a time code, now a time goods for the jury.
What it is is, when you're listening to audio, it's
kind of booming here. You don't get the best accoup sticks.
So there's a running number on the screen that you
can refer to in your notes, Like I say, I
wonder what he said there, and you write it down
(43:09):
and later, if you ask, I can go back and
replay that that piece of audio because there's a time
marker that you'll be able to see playing.
Speaker 10 (43:18):
It's called a timecode.
Speaker 18 (43:19):
And I don't believe that's been entered in yet, so
I didn't bring a slide for that. But that was
the final process, was to take the audio and put
a timecode on it so that the jury could if
they had questions, identify parts of the audio they had questions.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
With, all right, And so a timecode is just something
you added just timing the call. I'm timing the audio, correct.
Speaker 18 (43:39):
It's it's a running it's a running linear number, and
it's basically for the jury's reference.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
All right.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
And was there any identifying information on this audio?
Speaker 10 (43:49):
Pardon?
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Was there any identifying information on this audio?
Speaker 10 (43:51):
You'd be a little bit more specific.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
How many people are talking too?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
And does one person ever refer.
Speaker 10 (43:59):
To the Yes, the male refers to a self.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
As sustained, we approached.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Objection over world to make continue, all right, and when
you finished, well, let me let me go back to
that question. Does the male eb we refer to the
female by name, Yes, what does he call her?
Speaker 10 (44:24):
He refers three times using the name Jody.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Okay, and does the female ever refer to the male
by name?
Speaker 10 (44:30):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (44:30):
And what does she call him?
Speaker 18 (44:32):
She refers to the name Travis twice on the tape,
and he refers to himself as mister Alexander.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
When you finished your enhancing enhancement of the audio did
you get did you give it back to mister Narmia
and myself?
Speaker 6 (44:48):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (44:48):
How did you give it to us?
Speaker 8 (44:50):
Bye?
Speaker 10 (44:51):
I put it on DVD with time code?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Okay, Judge Mayo code.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
I'm sure you list the mar Exhibit number four eight.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
That had the audio captured on it.
Speaker 18 (45:07):
There was actually on Thursday. I just want to clarify.
Thursday I did bring in a DVD that had seven
clips on it, and it was agreed by all parties
to redect two clips. So this is a modified DVD
that has five of the seven original clips that I received.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Okay? And is that is Exhibit four twenty eight, the
one that has five clips on it?
Speaker 10 (45:29):
If this is the one I brought in today, correctly, Yes,
it does.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Thank you nothing for thank you made but the extra
two clips those have nothing to do with this case.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Is that correct?
Speaker 18 (45:47):
I believe both council said they didn't have anything to
do with this case and that it should be stricken.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
So there was no reason for you to do it
to have it on the DVD.
Speaker 6 (45:58):
That's correct.
Speaker 10 (45:58):
Okay, it did not affect it. Uh, it was not
part of this case.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
Pross examination.
Speaker 8 (46:06):
In regard to this particular DVD you keep referring account.
Speaker 9 (46:09):
It's true that the parties, including say, agreed that the
two individuals on there were Travis Alexander and Jody Area.
Speaker 8 (46:15):
Is correct. Correct, And with regard.
Speaker 9 (46:17):
To your examination, your examination was restricted to mister Travis
Alexander's voice. Uh, comparing that to a non sample?
Speaker 8 (46:25):
Right?
Speaker 9 (46:28):
Did you compare mister Alexander's voice on that DVD to
his known sent.
Speaker 13 (46:36):
Over world.
Speaker 10 (46:38):
Early on?
Speaker 8 (46:39):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (46:39):
Or no?
Speaker 8 (46:40):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (46:40):
Early on.
Speaker 9 (46:41):
With regard to the defendant, you didn't make that same
type of comparison, though, did you.
Speaker 10 (46:47):
That's correct.
Speaker 8 (46:48):
I don't have anything else.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
Redirect questions any questions from the jury for this witness.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
I see no hands.
Speaker 10 (47:00):
Thank you, may step down, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
You may, Ladies and gentlemen. I'm going to ask that
you go back to the jury room for approximately three
minutes and then return.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Please remember the admonition, please be seated.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
The record will show the jury has left the courtroom.
Miss Wilmont, the images on the screen.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I'm serious. You may come forward and
take a seat.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
You can.
Speaker 13 (48:00):
I'm the jury, up, mine, up, the jury.
Speaker 4 (48:07):
Please be seated.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
The record will show the presence of the jury, the defendant,
and all counsel.
Speaker 14 (48:13):
Mister Jeremy, I believe that serious needs to be sworn
calling your client, yes, the defense caused Jody arias serious.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Please stand to be sworn right now, you.
Speaker 15 (48:24):
Selves where the testimony you're about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing about the truth.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
To help you out, Please be seated. May proceeed.
Speaker 8 (48:34):
Thank you? Hi, Jody, Hi, how are you feeling right now?
I want to ask you, well, let me ask you
this is this a position you ever thought you would
find yourself in testifying her today?
Speaker 11 (48:54):
Approach?
Speaker 8 (48:54):
Please let me ask you a couple of important questions
before we get back and start talking about who you
are and why you're here. Okay, did you kill Travis
Alexander on June fourth, two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 8 (49:19):
Why The simile answer is.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
That he attacked me, and.
Speaker 8 (49:28):
It was also brought up during this these proceedings that
you gave an interview with inside addition, do you remember
seeing that tape?
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (49:38):
I do, And in that tape you said that no
jury would convict you something to that effect. You remember
seeing that, remember saying that.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Why I made that statement in September two thousand and eight,
I believe it was. And at the time I had
plans to commit suicide. So I was extremely confident that
no jury would convict me because I didn't expect any
of you to be here. I didn't expect to be here,
(50:11):
so I could have easily said no. Juri would have
quit me either. I couldn't say that, though, because there
was an officer sitting five feet behind me, and had
I told them the reason no jury would convict me
at that time, I would have been thrown into a
padded cell and stripped down, and that would have been
my life for a while until I'd stabilized. So I
(50:33):
was very confident that no jury would convict me because
I planned to be dead. Probably the most bitter words I'll.
Speaker 8 (50:40):
Ever eat, I'm sorry, What was that.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
I said, those are probably the most bitter words I'll ever.
Speaker 8 (50:45):
Eat, miss Aious. I want to clarify another thing as well.
Speaker 9 (50:53):
And we're talking.
Speaker 8 (50:54):
Your name has been pronounced and most of this trial areas.
Is there another way of pronouncing any of you? I
always pronounced it arius.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
I've heard it pronounced about seven different ways. I say arias,
as does the rest of my family.
Speaker 8 (51:06):
Okay, Well, let's back up a little bit and then
talk about your family. Who is in your immediate family?
Speaker 1 (51:15):
My immediate family consists of I'm the oldest of my parents.
They also have had another son about two years after
I was born, my brother, and then I have another
younger sister and another younger brother.
Speaker 16 (51:35):
I also have an.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Older sister from a previous marriage of my father's.
Speaker 8 (51:40):
Okay, so let me see if I Well, first of all,
what are the names.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Of your parents, uh, Bill and Sandy Arias okay?
Speaker 8 (51:49):
And are they still married at this time?
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Yes? About thirty three years okay.
Speaker 8 (51:55):
And you said you were the oldest child of Bill,
and say correct. And you have a half sister that
is older than you, is that right?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yes, she's five years older than me.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (52:12):
And that is your father's.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
Daughter yes, from a previous marriage.
Speaker 8 (52:16):
Okay. And you have a brother that's two years younger
than you, right, yes, okay? And what is his name?
Speaker 1 (52:25):
His name is Karl.
Speaker 8 (52:28):
And you mentioned a I believe the next youngest would
have been another sister.
Speaker 16 (52:34):
What was you Angela?
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Kay?
Speaker 8 (52:37):
And your youngest brother, who is he?
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Joseph?
Speaker 7 (52:41):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (52:43):
And just so we get a bit of separation, how
much younger than you is Angela?
Speaker 16 (52:47):
Angela was born when I was eleven, and Joseph.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Was born when I was thirteen.
Speaker 8 (52:51):
And what year were you born?
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Nineteen eighty?
Speaker 8 (52:57):
Do you remember where you grew up?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Yeah, I grew up in a few different cities. I
was born in Salinas, California, and I lived there until
I was almost twelve.
Speaker 8 (53:08):
And what was life like in Salina's.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
For the first years of my life? It was really good.
Speaker 8 (53:17):
When you said that's before you continue, let's clarify. What
do you mean by first years?
Speaker 1 (53:23):
I would say until about age seven, it was a
fairly ideal childhood.
Speaker 8 (53:28):
Okay, what do you Different people have different meanings when
they say ideal, So why don't you describe for us
what you mean by.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
Idea of childhood? I have predominantly positive memories of my
childhood At that time, my brother and I lived in
When I was about four years old, we moved to
a house in a cul de sac. We had the
center lot, so it was a huge backyard and we
had a lot of places to play there.
Speaker 16 (53:56):
There were trees to climb.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
There were other kids in the neighborhood and in the
cul de sac that we played with. We were close
in age, so we were My family traveled a lot.
We went camping, We went to all the theme parks
in California.
Speaker 8 (54:13):
Did you go to school?
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Of course, yes, I went to school.
Speaker 8 (54:17):
And you went to grade school in Salinas.
Speaker 17 (54:20):
Then yes, I went to a private school for about
three years.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
And then in public school.
Speaker 8 (54:28):
Were you in carl And school together? Did you go
to different schools?
Speaker 1 (54:31):
We were in school together. I was held back in kindergarten,
so even though we're two years apart, he was only one.
Speaker 16 (54:36):
Grade behind me.
Speaker 8 (54:39):
And tell us about your parents at that time to
your recollection, were they both working? Was your mom at home?
Tell us about that?
Speaker 1 (54:46):
Yeah, when I was younger, I remember my mom used
to work. I guess she was working as a server
with my dad. He owned restaurants. My whole life, and
then when I was around eleven or twelve, she.
Speaker 16 (54:58):
Became a dental assistant.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (55:01):
Okay, and you mentioned your life was, well, let me
ask you a question. Do you remember what your interests
were as a child.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Yes, I had pets, cats, dog fish, I had a rat.
Speaker 16 (55:17):
I I loved animals.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
We had a lot of pets. My brother had frogs,
things like that. We played a lot of Popscotch and
two square. When we were younger, we went roller skating.
They didn't really have rollerblades yet, or at least that
we used. We rode bikes a lot. We did a
(55:41):
lot of camping. I'm sorry, I kind of forgot the question.
Speaker 8 (55:49):
Well, you're speaking very quietly. Are you nervous today?
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Yeah, yes I am.
Speaker 8 (55:53):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (55:54):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (55:55):
Okay, very nervous. Did you do me a favor? And
pulled the mic a little closer to you, Jody. One
of the things that you said, uh uh a couple
questions ago when we were speaking is that your life
was pretty ideal up until about age seven. It was
(56:16):
something different after age seven, or.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
It seemed like, well my parents would just you know,
spank us or hit us as disciplines. It seemed like
at age seven, around then it started getting a little
bit more intense. That's something I remember.
Speaker 8 (56:34):
You said they started spanking here.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
Well, I was spanked before on occasion, just it seemed
like the frequency and the intensity of it increased around
that age.
Speaker 8 (56:44):
What do you mean by that frequency and intensity?
Speaker 1 (56:49):
Well, just there were I think that's the first year
my dad started using a belt. My mom began to
carry oh and spoon in her purse.
Speaker 6 (57:01):
Did you.
Speaker 8 (57:03):
Sustand maybe we approached.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
To I don't know. She went to school with or
knew another woman about her age who had a daughter
of my age that was going in a freshman going
into high school as well, So we hung out a
little bit during the summer, so I knew her and
her sister.
Speaker 6 (57:21):
But that was it just took a couple of people.
Speaker 8 (57:24):
Yes, Now you mentioned when you moved to Based on
what you told us before, we correct and understanding that
the beatings, the pushing and the furniture, that sort of
thing with your dad continued throughout your high school years. Yes,
(57:46):
were those the incidents you were talking about before about
being pushed into the post and the furniture or were
there other.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
Incidents that happened when I was in high school. There
were a few things that happened right before we moved.
A bunch of friends and I one night decided, like
the last night I was there, WEC I had to
sneak out of the house and hang out, and my
parents woke up and found out. So when I came back,
my dad asked for I had been and I was I.
(58:15):
I had fallen asleep. He woke me up around six
and so when I s I sat up and I
was disoriented cause I had been sleeping.
Speaker 16 (58:22):
So I didn't give him a satisfactory answer.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
So he hit me across the face and then I
fell back down, and then he sat me back up
and asked me again, and I didn't give him a
satisfactory answer, so he hit me across the face again
and I fell down.
Speaker 8 (58:36):
And you say, hit you across the faith? Did he hunch?
Speaker 6 (58:38):
You know? No?
Speaker 16 (58:39):
It was an open handed, hard slab.
Speaker 8 (58:42):
Mkay, you recall did you believe?
Speaker 6 (58:46):
No?
Speaker 1 (58:47):
I didn't, not that I recall.
Speaker 8 (58:48):
Did you bruise, Not that I recall. Did it hurt?
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (58:56):
Just so we can and clarify as well. Your dad's
a pretty big guy, right, He was very.
Speaker 16 (59:01):
Big at that time. His health is he's frail now,
but he was very big at the time.
Speaker 8 (59:07):
Can you do you can you give us an idea
how about tall and how much he weighed at that time.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
I don't know his weight, but he's about five eleven.
He used to bench press five hundred and twenty pounds.
He he was a really big guy for a while.
Speaker 8 (59:24):
You said he used to bench press five hundred something
pounds five twenty Yes, was was that a hobby of
his weightlifting or can you describe that for us?
Speaker 1 (59:33):
Yes, he was very much into weightlifting. He had I
guess it was like a bowflex machine at home. I
think it was called solo flex. It was one from
like the eighties. But he would use that a lot
to work out. He was in the martial arts. We
watched a lot of movies like that, you know, things
(59:54):
like that. He went to the gym frequently.
Speaker 8 (59:59):
Was your tea your knowledge? Was your mom aware? I
know you mentioned the one incident where your mom was present.
Was your mom aware of your dad beating you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Well when she was present? Yes, of course.
Speaker 16 (01:00:14):
Sometimes we were on road.
Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Trips together and they would take turns if they you know,
had to pull the car over or something not that
it happened several times in one trip, but I remember
it being both my mommy and my dad punishing me
in the presence of each other.
Speaker 16 (01:00:27):
And I don't know when she was gone. I assume
they would talk about it.
Speaker 8 (01:00:33):
Okay, we talked a little bit about your dad during
high school and the mom with the wooden spoon in
your younger years. Did your mom's beatings with the wooden spoon?
Did they continue in high school as well?
Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
They continue for a short time, but I think as
I turned sixteen seventeen, she didn't. I don't recall her
carrying the wooden spoon around. She would just start grabbing
whatever was available, like a hair brush, or she had
acrylic nail so sometimes she would grab me and dig
her nails into my skin, things like that.
Speaker 19 (01:01:04):
Okay, in high school, Uh, what were some of your
interests in high school?
Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
I was very interested in learning Spanish, so I took
that all throughout high school. In middle school, I was
getting into art. I was excited to get my driver's license.
I traveled abroad to Costa Rica to learn Spanish better.
(01:01:40):
I had a few friends I didn't get I didn't
really make a lot of close friends like I had before.
Speaker 16 (01:01:46):
It just seemed like I was constantly.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Making friends and I we were moving away.
Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
So at any end school she was high her interests
or substed.
Speaker 8 (01:01:56):
Do you have a lot of friends in high school?
Speaker 16 (01:01:58):
I had a lot of I had a a large
circle of friends, but nobody I.
Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Was very close with.
Speaker 8 (01:02:04):
Would I be correct in assuming that you're interest in
art by the time you're in high school moved beyond
the uh prayale of crayon face?
Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Yeah, very much. So tell us about that my grandma.
I was at my grandmother's house one day and she
had an old set of oil paint, and I knew
what oil paint was. I'd never worked in that medium before,
so I didn't know what I was doing. I just
took a piece of printer paper and started painting oil
paint on his paper, and it began to oil, began
to spread around the paint. So I figured, Okay, that's
(01:02:36):
not gonna work. So I went to Michael's, the arts
and craft store, and bought some supplies and began to
experiment with that and started painting.
Speaker 8 (01:02:46):
And did you work during high school?
Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
I did. My dad owned a restaurant at the north
end of town. It's now a Mexican restaurant, but he
owned it then and I would work as a server
there from the time I was a freshman on through
I think nineteen six or seven when you closed it.
Speaker 8 (01:03:10):
HM, so you started working in ninth grade. How old
were you in ninth grade?
Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
In ninth grade, I was fifteen?
Speaker 8 (01:03:19):
And how many was there? A certain amount of days
you worked while you were in high school?
Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
He put me on a few afternoons and the weekend.
Speaker 8 (01:03:33):
Did you graduate high school?
Speaker 6 (01:03:35):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
I didn't.
Speaker 8 (01:03:36):
Why didn't you graduate high school.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
At the time?
Speaker 16 (01:03:40):
I about three month? Well it's kind of complicated.
Speaker 8 (01:03:47):
Well, let's let's talk about it. Did you drop out
of high school?
Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Yes? I did.
Speaker 8 (01:03:59):
Where were you living at the time you dropped out
of high school?
Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
I was living with my boyfriend at the time, about
six mile it's little town six miles outside of way Rica.
Speaker 8 (01:04:14):
Let's break fit. Why did you leave Prior to that,
were you living with your parents?
Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (01:04:22):
Okay, Why did you leave your parents' home to.
Speaker 6 (01:04:27):
Go live with your boyfriend?
Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
I was kind of becoming tired of the discipline, and
I was three months until I was eighteen, and one
day they decided to ground me until I was eighteen
because I was I skipped one period in high school
because there was a final for my I was taking
(01:04:52):
a college history class US History, and I wasn't I
didn't feel like i'd adequately studied for the exam, so
I skipped that period to study for the exam and
decided I would make it up the next day. So
I parked my car in the parking lot of Rite
Aid and just cracked open the book and I was
studying it for that hour. And my dad somehow he
(01:05:13):
found me as a small town so I guess the
school notified him that I wasn't present for that class,
so he found me, and.
Speaker 16 (01:05:22):
At that point they didn't use physical discipline that day.
Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
But I was grounded till I was eighteen, so I
couldn't have them being grounded for three months. When when
you were grounded in my house, it meant no phone,
no TV, no friends, no no social functions of any kind.
You're in You're in your room. Period.
Speaker 8 (01:05:40):
So so well, let me ask you this. This would
have been towards the end of your senior year in
high school or was this in the end, Yeah, it
was in May.
Speaker 6 (01:05:51):
I think Okay, so of your.
Speaker 8 (01:05:54):
Senior year or if your junia April my junior year. Yes,
so you you dropped out of high school at before
you finished your junior year, Is that right?
Speaker 6 (01:06:08):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
I did finish the junior year mostly with d's and
f's because toward the end of the year, I just
let it all fall apart.
Speaker 8 (01:06:18):
You mentioned discipline. You talked about grounding.
Speaker 7 (01:06:22):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (01:06:23):
Was there a any particular physical incident or an incident
of the use it motivated you to leave your parents home?
Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
One of the yes.
Speaker 16 (01:06:32):
One of the the incident is incident I described where
I was knocked against.
Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
I called it a door post. I guess it's a
door frame. Then at that point I was the guy
I was dating. We started talking about me possibly moving
in with him. So after that incident, I began to
surreptitiously packed boxes of my things and start moving him
out to his house. And then when it came when
(01:06:59):
they finally when they ground me until I was eighteen,
all of my stuff mostly was there, and I thought,
I'm just gonna go ahead. I was gonna wait until
I was eighteen to move in with him, but it
was three months away and it just made sense to
me at the time as a seventeen year old, So
I just moved out.
Speaker 8 (01:07:14):
Okay, after your junior year, then did you just not
go back to school?
Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Is that? Yeah? I turned eighteen that summer. I got
a job at another restaurant and began working there full time.
I had builds, debay now, car insurance and credit cards
and that kind of thing, so it just to me
it made more sense to work so I could support
myself and my boyfriend. He didn't have a job.
Speaker 8 (01:07:40):
And what was your boyfriend's His name was Bobby. What
was his last name?
Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Warres?
Speaker 8 (01:07:49):
And mister Warres? Uh, how old was he in relations
to you?
Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
He was three years older than me.
Speaker 8 (01:07:59):
Uh, so he would have been out of school. I
would assume, yes, he was out of high school. And
what did he do for a living.
Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
He had never been employed at that point, so you
know he kind he l It was an isolated town
we lived in and it was difficult to pain employment.
Speaker 8 (01:08:19):
Okay, Well, let me ask you this as it relates
to mister Wares. When did you meet him?
Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
I first met him the first summer that I moved
to Arica, when I was fifteen. The uh carnival comes
to town? And so I was there with the girl
i'd mentioned that my mom introduced me to her and
her sister. We were there and I saw him walking
in a crowd with a few other friends, and he
(01:08:49):
caught my eye. Was very intriguing looking. He was kind
of dressed like s eighteenth century.
Speaker 8 (01:08:54):
Golf kind of he was k can you describe for
some of us who may not uh follow that reference?
Just he described what he was wearing.
Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Yeah, it was like July or August when I met him,
and it's in the maybe triple digits in the temperature.
It's very hot. Why Rika gets really hot, not quite
like the desert, but in the triple digits in the summer.
But this guy was dressed in a black suit and
a high collar white shirt, and uh, he was on crutches.
(01:09:28):
He had long, dark curly hair, and he just seemed
intriguing to me. So I remember seeing him walk by,
and I didn't approach him or anything, but I d
I noticed him. So we spent the day there, my
friends and I walking around, and at one point we
were getting They were getting in line for the zipper.
I didn't wanna get on the zipper. There was only
(01:09:51):
two per cage anyway, So I was kind of the
third odd one out, So I just stood next to
the line waiting for them to go on the zipper
and come back. But I was just looking around and
I caught his eye again and he was looking right
at me, and he motioned for me to come over.
He went like that, and I didn't know if he
(01:10:12):
was talking to me, so I kind of looked around
and looked at him again, and he did it again.
So I walked up to him, and he said, in
a very kind way, said you wanna go to your
safe Oh? Sorry, sustained.
Speaker 7 (01:10:25):
Men.
Speaker 8 (01:10:25):
I said this about telling you what he said, and
just to clarify a bit based on what he told us,
he would have been around the age of eighteen at
this time, right, yes, okay, and you were fifteen. You
meet him at a state affair, yes, thank, okay. Tell
(01:10:48):
us then, do you begin a relationship at that point
in time or or just kind of describe for us
how that relationship was at that time.
Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
No.
Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
He invited me to go on the zipper with him,
So we went on one ride with that and UH
talked a little bit as we were whipping around, and
after that we parted and I didn't.
Speaker 16 (01:11:10):
See him again for a while.
Speaker 8 (01:11:13):
Okay, when did you see him again?
Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
I think it was October maybe November of that same year.
I was at a homecoming football game from my high
school and I saw him again, and he was with
some friends and I was really shy, but I wanted
to say hi to him, so I walked up to
him and said, do you remember me? And he said
hein't remembered me, but he couldn't remember my name. So
(01:11:40):
I told him I didn't remember his name either, so
we kind of reintroduced ourselves and he said, tell me
your phone number, and I promise I'll remember it. So
I gave him the house phone, which was my parent's phone.
We didn't have cell phones, and he remembered it and
called me.
Speaker 8 (01:11:56):
Uh, did you begin dating at that time?
Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
No, we were just friends. We talked for a while,
we weren't dating. Okay, he was actually seeing a girl
I think I don't remember.
Speaker 8 (01:12:07):
Okay, Uh, so you were just friends for a period
of time.
Speaker 16 (01:12:11):
Yeah, several months.
Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
We were just friends.
Speaker 8 (01:12:15):
And but uh, we were telling us he became your
boyfriend at that point. So I'm assuming there at some
point in time, uh, that you two began dat.
Speaker 16 (01:12:22):
Yeah, the girl broke up with him, and.
Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
There was a period of time where he was single
and I was single, and we started just talking more
and more. And then I think it was on New
Year's that followed that year, when I was a freshman,
we decided to become a boyfriend girlfriend Okay.
Speaker 8 (01:12:43):
And then you say, y, you said that was your
s sophomore the beginning of your sophomore year.
Speaker 16 (01:12:49):
I would have still been a freshman then.
Speaker 8 (01:12:50):
Okay, And you said you were gonna become boyfriend and girlfriend. Yes, yeah, okay,
you guys decided that. Was he still in high school
at that time?
Speaker 16 (01:13:00):
No, he was out of high school.
Speaker 8 (01:13:03):
And to your recollection, was he working at that one
in time?
Speaker 16 (01:13:06):
No, he wasn't working.
Speaker 8 (01:13:07):
Okay, describe for us than what.
Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Uh?
Speaker 8 (01:13:14):
Being boyfriend and girlfriend at that stage in your life
met for you.
Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
And mister wares for us. We I didn't have a car.
I didn't have a driver's license yet. I think I
was getting my permit that year. So he would come
to town and so during lunch, a lot of kids
would leave campus and there's a small gas station USA
gas station near the high school. So I would walk
down there and he would be there. There was an
(01:13:40):
arcade there and he really liked video games, so we
would meet there and just hang out, hold hands, that
kind of thing.
Speaker 8 (01:13:49):
How long at this point in time, Uh, how long
did you did?
Speaker 6 (01:13:55):
Well?
Speaker 8 (01:13:55):
Did you date Bobby continuously from the time that you
were fifteen till you moved out of the hall?
Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
No, we stayed together for a while, and I think
at age fifteen, I felt like the relationship was getting
very intense. He was talking about being together forever, and
you know, I I loved him, but I didn't feel
like I was in love with him. And I knew
at age fifteen there's no way I could decide who
I wanted to spend the rest of my life with
at that point. So he wanted to move to San Francisco,
(01:14:24):
and he had all kinds of wild ideas, which were
they seemed.
Speaker 16 (01:14:29):
Fun, but they were just not where I was. So
at that point I groke.
Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Up with him.
Speaker 8 (01:14:35):
What do you mean wild ideas?
Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Well?
Speaker 16 (01:14:40):
He entertained the belief in vampires, and.
Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
He thought, well, let's go to San Francisco and see
if we can find some real vampires. And you know,
I used to read Anne Riich's novels. At the time,
it seemed like it didn't seem realistic to me, but
it seemed like it was just an idea that I
would go along with, you know, with him.
Speaker 8 (01:15:01):
And this was at a time when you were about
fifteen years of age. She wanted to move to San
Francisco and hunt Vampa.
Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
Yes, right, so, yeah, we could live together forever and
be together for.
Speaker 8 (01:15:12):
Was there a certain point in time then when this
was going on and you said it was getting too
intense for you? Uh, did you and mister Wares break up?
Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Yes? It was one afternoon. I broke up with him
on the phone. I don't know where my parents were,
but my my aunt Lisa was at the house. She
was picking my brother and I up. I was having
this conversation with him. He was very upset and she,
Lisa wanted us to leave. She I mean, she wanted
(01:15:41):
to take us. We had to go somewhere with her.
Speaker 16 (01:15:43):
So I didn't have time to stay on the phone
with him for a long time and.
Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Talk through it with him. So I had to sort
of abruptly in the phone call shortly thereafter, and it was.
Speaker 16 (01:15:53):
I don't know, I guess he.
Speaker 8 (01:15:55):
Didn't take that well, okay, what do you mean by
you guess he didn't take it?
Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Though?
Speaker 7 (01:16:00):
Well?
Speaker 16 (01:16:01):
I found out a few years later that he.
Speaker 8 (01:16:06):
Appro overrolled to make continue story, I was described. We
were asking. You said you understood, uh that mister Wares
didn't take the break up you had UH when we
were about fifteen, So well, describe for us what you
mean by that.
Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
I learned a few years later that he slit both
of his wrists and tried to kill himself, and he
was committed to some kind of psychiatric ward in Citrus Heights,
it's north of Sacramento.
Speaker 8 (01:16:40):
Mmkay, did you have after this phone call where you
broke up and and you left the home, did you
have any sort of relationship with him? I? In between
that and the and the I I, Well, let me
ask you this way. It sounds like he was your
(01:17:01):
boyfriend again about the time when you turned eighteen, right
a few months before. Okay, how did that come about?
Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
We didn't talk at that point for a few years.
It's kind of silly. There was this.
Speaker 16 (01:17:17):
Older man that used to come into my parents' restaurant.
Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
I'd say he was in his sixties, maybe seventies, and
he always had his Bible and he it was a
small pocket version of the New Testament, and he had
it all marked up, and he was always, you know,
quoting Bible scripture and things. And he had done the
math in the Bible and determined that he knew when
(01:17:43):
the Second Coming was going to occur, and he said
it was going to occur September twenty third, nineteen ninety seven.
So I was really naive and I kind of believed him.
So he would come in weekly or several times a
week on my shift and continue to read it that So,
I mean, at the time, I was a non denominational
Christian and this seemed important. So I thought that Bobby
(01:18:09):
should know about it because at the time he wasn't
religious and he was uncertain about his spirituality that at least.
Speaker 16 (01:18:16):
When I last had known him.
Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
So to me, it was important that he at least
hear that information so he could make a decision for himself.
So I made contact with him again and called him.
Speaker 8 (01:18:29):
S junior year or I was just starting my junior year, Okay,
And subsequent to this phone call, did you begin to
mean a friendship with mister Rris? Tell us about how
that evolved.
Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
Well, when I first called he I asked. He answered
the phone. I could recognize his voice, and I said,
is Bobby there? And he said, yeah, Who's this? I said, Jody,
And I immediately heard a clique. So I left alone.
And I thought, okay, cause our last phone calls some
years back didn't end well.
Speaker 16 (01:19:04):
And so the next night I tried one more time
and the same thing happened. So I left it alone
and about Well, let.
Speaker 8 (01:19:12):
Me ask you this before we before we continue. You
mentioned that, uh, Waireka was a pretty small town, right, Yes, okay,
you never ran and mister Rres in between these two
phone calls.
Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
No, he didn't live in Wyrika. He lived in Montague,
which is six miles from way Rica. It's even smaller.
I think there's about one thousand people.
Speaker 16 (01:19:34):
In that town.
Speaker 8 (01:19:35):
Okay, but never did this time? Did you run into
him at all?
Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
No?
Speaker 8 (01:19:39):
Okay, And I'm sorry you had talked about you had
called him a couple of times, uh and he had
a clique on the other of the end of the phone.
How does the relationship progress from that point?
Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
I don't know how many days later it was under
a week, maybe four days, maybe five days. I was
on the phone with a friend of mine, and we
were talking and I heard the A call waiting beat,
so I clicked over and I heard someone says Jody
there and I I recognized his voice, so I clicked
back over and said, I have to call you back.
So I clicked back over and we started talking again.
Speaker 8 (01:20:13):
M Uh, did you after that conversation? Did you become
friends again? Did you start dating again?
Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Just describe that for Yeah, I was. I felt kind
of silly explaining to him why I was calling him,
especially knowing that he his religious beliefs at that time
were not really defined, and I kind of expected him
to laugh at me. But it was important to me,
(01:20:41):
so I told him the reason I was calling and.
Speaker 13 (01:20:49):
A over roll to make continue.
Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
He expressed appreciation for that, which surprised me. We just
sort of picked up from there and began talking again.
Speaker 8 (01:21:02):
Just talk you mean daty No, not yet.
Speaker 3 (01:21:06):
Recess Ladies and gentlemen, please be back in the designated
area at three twenty.
Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
Please remember the admonition.
Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
You are excused all rise with the jury.
Speaker 4 (01:21:32):
Please be seated. Serious, please take the.
Speaker 8 (01:21:46):
Stand, And just regarding the conversation you had in the chamber,
you could say none known to about I would appoint
the UH work to UH stay team Machado two to
six Arizona two the one the most frasent case I
(01:22:12):
could find dealing with UH A state, the state asserting
UH for OOR free.
Speaker 10 (01:22:20):
M you a stray quickly?
Speaker 6 (01:22:22):
You made.
Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Good?
Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Let me job?
Speaker 4 (01:22:38):
Does that SERI?
Speaker 3 (01:22:39):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
As long as the DC.
Speaker 8 (01:22:40):
Beginning it serious. Before we took a break, I believe
we were talking about the point in time in your
life when you got back together with Barby Wards. Yes,
and from what I understood earlier, you were about seventeen
years of age when that took place, get right, Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
And.
Speaker 8 (01:23:06):
You were talking about how you UH he had called
you responded to your initial phone contact. Tell us how
the relationship progressed from him making telephone contact with you.
Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
Well, at the time, at the time I had a boyfriend.
He lived in another country, so we corresponded. So it
wasn't a romantic reason like I I had said. I
reached out to him for a spiritual reason. I don't
know if he was seeing anybody at that time. I
don't think he was. He used to call a party
(01:23:43):
line a lot and meet people on that.
Speaker 16 (01:23:45):
I guess this was before the internet was really, you
know in every single home.
Speaker 8 (01:23:49):
Let me let me uh, let me interrupt you a
little bit. There are uh uh and a couple of
different things. You said, Uh, he made contact on a
party line?
Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
What is that?
Speaker 8 (01:24:00):
Can you describe that for us?
Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
From my understanding, I didn't talk on it. But from
my understanding, it was a nine hundred number that you
could call. And it's like a chat room, but it's
on the telephone instead of on the computer.
Speaker 8 (01:24:16):
And you chatted to Bobby that way or I didn't.
Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
He chatted with other people that way.
Speaker 8 (01:24:21):
And you also mentioned that I want to be too
far from it. You mentioned that when he made this
contact with you, after the contact he made for it
to describe as spiritual reasons. You said that you had
a boyfriend in another country, right, yes, okay? And what
was that boyfriend's name, Victor? Did Victor have a.
Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Last name Arius?
Speaker 8 (01:24:43):
Ironically, I'm sorry what his last name was?
Speaker 10 (01:24:46):
Also?
Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
Arius?
Speaker 6 (01:24:47):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (01:24:49):
And where did you meet Victor?
Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
Arias the summer that I turned seventeen, Right before I
turned seventeen, in July, I flew to Costa Rica on
an exchange program and I spent three weeks there with
a family. Their name was also Arius, and they had
two sons and two daughters in that family, and the
(01:25:14):
oldest son was just a little older than me, and
so we kind of clicked and got to know each
other and.
Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
Sort of.
Speaker 16 (01:25:24):
Had a little romance, kind of blossom thing.
Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
I don't know, it's like my first experience of like
the warm, fuzzy somebody that I really felt that I
cared for, Okay, and.
Speaker 8 (01:25:35):
That relationship lasted a few weeks or tell me how
it lasted beyond he was being there.
Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
It sort of began to develop while I was in
Costa Rica, and I flew back toward the end of
I had my seventeenth birthday there in that country, and
then I flew back at the near the end of July,
and we corresponded and talked occasionally on the phone through August,
and then he flew to the United States that September
(01:26:05):
and stayed in Reading, which is a city about one
hundred miles south of Way Rica. He had some people
that he knew there. He stayed there about a week,
I think, and then stayed at my house for two
weeks before flying back.
Speaker 8 (01:26:22):
And when would when did each come stay for you
for two weeks?
Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
When was that. That was early September nineteen ninety seven,
So this is about the time then that you were.
Speaker 8 (01:26:35):
Close to the time that you were going to We
were in contact with mister.
Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
Waris as well, right, yes, it was. It was bef
just right before that.
Speaker 8 (01:26:44):
Okay, and you considered mister Arius to be a boyfriend.
Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
Actually he had given me a ring, and it was
kind of a promise ring, like we were going to
get married, but we weren't officially engaged, so we would
talk about children and marriage, and he wanted me to
come live down there and start a family.
Speaker 8 (01:27:03):
Okay, he said, ye, So your first experience of well,
I guess what we'd.
Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
Call young love, right, Yeah, it was Okay, I wouldn't
say totally in love, but it was my first taste
of being like just feeling like warm about somebody.
Speaker 16 (01:27:19):
If that makes sense.
Speaker 8 (01:27:22):
As it relates to your situation. Then, uh, mister mister
Arius Victor he goes back to Costa Rica, I was there, right, yes, okay,
and then the relationship becomes one probably was Is it
primarily of letters phone calls? Just describe that for.
Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
Yeah, we wrote a lot. The postman actually got to
know my name and face. And he would tease me
every time I went to the post office ticket it
stamped to send to Costa Rica, and I would receive
letters from.
Speaker 16 (01:27:56):
Him that were really romantic.
Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
And the Spanish language is very roman, so he wouldn't
write things like that very romantic.
Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (01:28:04):
And relative to your age, how old was was Victor?
Speaker 1 (01:28:09):
I don't remember his exact age. I wanna say he
was about a year older than me. I think actually
I think we were just n we were. We were
very close in age, but he was older than me.
Speaker 8 (01:28:19):
Okay, Now when you started interacting with mister Warez again, Uh,
we've heard from y earlier testimony that, uh, he became
your boyfriend at a certain point in time when you
were around seventeen years old, right, yes, okay, could you
just kind of describe for us, Uh what happened in
(01:28:42):
that time period, Uh, when Victor was your boyfriend and
then Bobby became your boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
Yes, Bobby and I would talk a few times a week,
and then it became m a little more frequent. The
pichre and I would I couldn't see myself like moving
to Costa Rica and having that kind of life and
having children with him. We argued like over little silly things.
(01:29:13):
Victor was very jealous and so we would like I
couldn't talk to any of my high school friends that
were guys like I went through the drive through and
there was a classmate that I had gone to school
with uh two years, you know, over the years, and
he had a job there and just I was driving,
(01:29:34):
of course, because Victor was from out of the country,
and we just were there to get ice cream. It
was hot, and he gave us the ice cream and
we'd hadn't seen each other all summer with this person
that served us, and the interaction I had with him,
Victor didn't like it, so we argued over things like that.
When we were in Costa Rica, he wanted me always
to walk on the inside of the UH on the
(01:29:56):
sidewalk away from the street. And we were at a
huge soccer game there. It's it's a very big deal there.
They called football, but it's soccer. And there was actually
someone that walked by that looked a lot like Bobby
and it kind of reminded me of him at the time.
You had long, dark, curly hair, and I I glanced
at him and Victor got upset. So things like that
(01:30:19):
I just didn't see myself being in a marriage with him.
So I broke up with him around October, maybe November
nineteen ninety seven on the phone.
Speaker 8 (01:30:30):
On the phone. Yes, after we broke up with Victor,
did you continue seeing Mr Wabins.
Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
We weren't really seeing each other. We were just friends
at that time, but we continued to talk.
Speaker 8 (01:30:41):
Okay, when did the friendship move into something more to
be your boyfriend?
Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
It was again around New Year's I think we spent
New Year's Eve. I had a car then, so we
drove out to this little white chapel in in little
It's called Little Shasta. It's a tiny it's even smaller town.
I don't even know if it's considered a town. And
it's this small white chapel with a tall steeple, and
there was snow everywhere, and we just kind of hung
(01:31:15):
out there and running. The New Year didn't really do
and I I had developed began to develop feelings for
him right before Christmas, and so I expressed that and
he said he was he had feelings for me too,
and so we decided to give things another try at that.
Speaker 8 (01:31:28):
Point, okay, And that's would have been a few months
prior to you moving in with him, Is that right?
Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
I believe I moved in with him in late April,
and so we're around the new year, so four months
more and a half maybe five.
Speaker 8 (01:31:44):
Did your parents were they aware of your relationship with
and I'm speaking as uh as it relates to the
the the occasion we're talking about now, when you're seventeen
or eighteen? Every to excuse me, did they know about
your relationship with mister Wallace?
Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
They knew about it. I don't know how they knew.
I wasn't very open with them about my relationships because
of prior negative experiences with that with regard to that,
so somehow, I mean, it's a small town. I'm sure
people told them they saw us running around or hanging
out in the park or just walking around and we
hung out, so people would tell my mom and things
(01:32:26):
like that.
Speaker 8 (01:32:27):
Did you ever get any indication that your parents approved
or disapproved of this relationship.
Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
I didn't talk extensively with my dad about it, but
my mom didn't like the fact that I was with him, because, uh,
she was basing her opinion on him off of rumors
she had heard about him.
Speaker 8 (01:32:45):
Kay, when you when you were you described it in
in high school. How you were working for your father
at your father's restaurant, right, yes, and in high school,
your junior year. All this was going on at the
point in time when you were began dating.
Speaker 10 (01:33:06):
Mister Waas right.
Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
I think my dad's restaurant closed the year prior, when
I was still a sophomore. I can't quite remember. No, No,
I think it was he closed that spring. I think
he closed that spring in ninety that would have been
ninety eight. I can't remember. It was so many time
in high school he closed his restaurant.
Speaker 8 (01:33:23):
Okay, did you work elsewhere after that?
Speaker 7 (01:33:27):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (01:33:27):
Before you moved out?
Speaker 19 (01:33:30):
Did I?
Speaker 7 (01:33:32):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
I worked at briefly as a hostess at a little
restaurant called Grandma's House.
Speaker 8 (01:33:39):
And during this point in time, when you're a seventeen
year old high school student, mister Wares is out of school.
Are you supplying him with money at this point in
time before you left school?
Speaker 1 (01:33:52):
Yes, Well, he lived with two people he called mom
and Dad. I think they were his grandparents. Bobby said
he was adopted, so his actual his real parents was
kind of I never really met them, but they we lived,
he lived with them. They would be his mom and
(01:34:14):
dad by definition, so I think they were just supplying
you know, clothing and sheltering food and that kind of
thing at that point.
Speaker 8 (01:34:23):
Okay, So going back to my question, were you supplying
mister Ware's with money.
Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
At this point a time?
Speaker 16 (01:34:28):
At this point now?
Speaker 7 (01:34:29):
Kay?
Speaker 1 (01:34:31):
Uh?
Speaker 8 (01:34:34):
Then you leave high school and you move in.
Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
With mister Ware's right, yes, in the spring.
Speaker 6 (01:34:42):
And.
Speaker 8 (01:34:43):
You mentioned that he was living with persons you believed
to be his grandparents.
Speaker 16 (01:34:50):
I don't know if they were.
Speaker 1 (01:34:53):
Like really related or if you just called them his parents,
but if anything, that they were more like his grandparents,
but he called them mom and dad.
Speaker 8 (01:35:03):
You say that because of their age.
Speaker 16 (01:35:04):
Yeah, they were very much older. I actually saw who.
Speaker 1 (01:35:09):
Everyone around town kind of knew was his mother, but
he didn't want anything to do with her, and she
was more appropriate age to be his mother. And these
people were more like in their seventies, late seventies maybe.
Speaker 8 (01:35:20):
Okay. When you spoke about your first relationship with mister Warez,
you spoke about his desire to move to San Francisco
and chase vampires and be with you forever, and how
he dressed in a goth style. Was that still was
(01:35:47):
that fifteen year old Bobby the same way he was
when you got back together with him.
Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
No, he was twenty now, he was a little more mature,
but he was still he still had that eccentricity about him.
For Halloween, he's still he would dress up as the
character played by Brandon Lee from The Crow, with the
white face and all black leather and all that. So
it was a Halloween thing. But he really got into that,
and he did it pretty well actually, so he still
(01:36:16):
had he was still drawn to that, and part of
that was fascinating to me. I thought he was beautiful
on the inside and out, and I was attracted to
him in that regard, but he was a little more
down to earth at this point.
Speaker 8 (01:36:33):
Earlier, you were describing, for a s a a situation
where you were taking some of your possessions and and
moving it in into mister Warez's home. And now eventually
you moved out. Yes, okay, what was what was the
last straw for you to move out of your house?
Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
I think the last straw was actually when they said
you grounded until you're eighteen, And I a a lot
of my things were already at Bobby's house or his
parents' house. They were putting it in a storage shed
right behind the house, just boxes of things that I
had been saving because I knew I was going to
be on my own soon. My dad had recently closed
this restaurant. He let me have a lot of the plates,
(01:37:14):
the dishes, the silverware, so that would just get me started.
So things like that, old books I had already read
but didn't want to part with. Things like that went
to the storage shed. And then when I was grounded,
I thought I only have a few more things to
throw in the car, plus my cat. So I stayed
up all night packing while my parents slept, and I well.
My dad, when he would ground me, used to unhook
(01:37:34):
my car. I don't know what that means, but I
would go out and try to turn the engine and
it wouldn't turn. He would he unhooked something under the hood.
I think I figured out how to rehook it, so
then he started taking the entire piece so that I
couldn't rehook it. So the first thing I did was
I went out after they went to sleep to check
if my car would start, and it did.
Speaker 16 (01:37:52):
So It's relieved, so I began to load up the car.
Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
I was almost completely packed, and then I think around
four thirty or five, I heard one of my pa
it's awake. So I was in the living room, still
packing up a few things, and I jumped on the
couch real a click to pretend like I was sleeping
so they wouldn't wonder why I was awake. And it
was very tired, so I ended up falling asleep. And
then the next thing I knew, it was seven thirty
or seven o'clock and my mom was in the kitchen
(01:38:16):
preparing breakfast, and I thought, oh shoot, I missed my opportunity.
But I just went into my bedroom, found my cat,
picked her up, and I just started walking out the door.
My mom said, what are you doing? And I said nothing,
And I just shut the door and put my cat
in my car and drove out to Bobby's house, unloaded it,
and then went to school that day.
Speaker 8 (01:38:34):
And you said Bobby's house. These people you described is
his grandparents. Did they live in this home as well?
Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (01:38:45):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (01:38:46):
And was there anyone else besides them and Bobby in
this home?
Speaker 2 (01:38:50):
No? Okay.
Speaker 8 (01:38:53):
Describe for us the environment you were leaving your home
with your parents in order.
Speaker 7 (01:38:59):
To live with.
Speaker 10 (01:39:00):
What were you relyked to?
Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
It was structurally, the house was very good, but it
was in very bad shape. His parents were very heavy smokers,
so there was always a haze hanging out in the
living room, and there was a lot of I don't
know what it's called. I guess tar or something running
down the walls, kind of in a deep brown. The
(01:39:25):
living room was almost not quite to the ceiling, but
it was packed with a bunch of things. I don't
know what it was, just various odds and ends. I
guess they were borders. Bobby did the best to make
his bedroom his own little space, but he wasn't allowed
to touch any of those things while they were there,
(01:39:45):
and so, I mean, the kitchen was very, very dirty,
The bathroom was very dirty. The l the Linoyan was
coming off the floor, and the shower was kind of
falling apart, and it was just mess. All of the
the yard all around the house was overgrown. I went
(01:40:06):
back to my parents' house a few days later to borrow.
Speaker 16 (01:40:08):
Their cleaning supplies.
Speaker 1 (01:40:09):
For it.
Speaker 8 (01:40:11):
Doesn't sound like Bobby's house was a was a a
great place to live.
Speaker 7 (01:40:16):
No, he hated it.
Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Like I said, his own room, he did his best
to make that his space and make it habitable, and
then his parents would kind of sit in the living
room all day and watch TV and smoke till they
went to bed.
Speaker 8 (01:40:32):
You mentioned, uh, he kept his room in a different way.
Was that a room you shared with him?
Speaker 1 (01:40:40):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (01:40:41):
Were you having a sexual relationship with him at that
point in time?
Speaker 16 (01:40:46):
I'm trying to remember if we were at that point.
Speaker 3 (01:40:48):
We did.
Speaker 1 (01:40:50):
We did eventually. I don't remember if it was right
before I moved in with him. I think it was
right after I moved in with him. I can't remember
who we We waited several months.
Speaker 3 (01:41:00):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (01:41:03):
So from from what you're telling us then, is that
you moved into this home. This this this filthy home
with one clean room in it. You dropped out of
high school and you were working right.
Speaker 1 (01:41:17):
M Sorry, will you repeat that.
Speaker 8 (01:41:21):
This At this point in time when you moved in
with Bobby, you were at the end of your junior
year and that was your last.
Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
Yes. I was coming up on the end of my
junior year, and you.
Speaker 8 (01:41:30):
Were working as well. I believe you said Grandma's.
Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
Yes, my dad had recently closed this restaurant, and I
think I got a part time position there at Grandma's house.
Speaker 8 (01:41:38):
Okay, And was this how you were supporting yourself?
Speaker 4 (01:41:43):
Yes, it was, and uh, were you supporting mister.
Speaker 8 (01:41:47):
Warez as well?
Speaker 1 (01:41:49):
Not quite yet. Occasionally we'd go on a date and I,
of course wuld pay for it, which wasn't a big
deal to me at the time. He had and he
had a problem getting identification to prove that he was
legally able to work.
Speaker 16 (01:42:04):
In the United States.
Speaker 1 (01:42:05):
So he didn't have an U photo ID, he couldn't
find a copee of his birth certificate. He didn't have
a Social Security card, but he did have a Social
Security number. But every time I went to the DMV
or the Social Security office or the courthouse, they wanted
one form of identification that we were trying to get,
so of those three it was hard to get all
of them, so he couldn't That was the reason he
(01:42:28):
couldn't work, or so that was what I understood.
Speaker 8 (01:42:32):
Okay, So based on what you told us earlier, then
at the end of your junior year, you drove out
of high school and you begin working full time to
support yourself, right.
Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
Yes, Bobby and I went to Chico, California briefly, which
is near Sacramento. It's a little bit south. I think
I was gonna work there, I was gonna live there.
It didn't work out. We were there for about a
week and we went back, and so then I applied
at a restaurant where I applied at Denny's. Actually, and
(01:43:07):
the woman there that gave me a good reference had
worked for my dad the previous year, her and her husband.
So I was hired there around I think August two thousand. Wait,
I'm sorry, that would be nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 8 (01:43:24):
And uh at are you working full time?
Speaker 1 (01:43:29):
Yes? I am was.
Speaker 8 (01:43:31):
And is that the only job you had or did
you have another?
Speaker 16 (01:43:35):
I didn't you know.
Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
I'm sorry I forgot, cause in between that I did
have a brief job at this restaurant called the Purple Plum.
I was a busser. I worked there briefly before thinking
I was gonna move to Chico, and then I came
back and began to work at denny.
Speaker 8 (01:43:51):
So working in Denny's, was this how you were supporting
yourself from mister Wares.
Speaker 16 (01:43:58):
Yes, that's that became our our income.
Speaker 8 (01:44:01):
Who are you making a lot of money?
Speaker 1 (01:44:04):
Well, the cost of living wasn't very high, I would
I would say no, but we were making ends meet
because I didn't have rent or mortgage. At that point,
his parents had moved out and into a rest home.
So we had the kind of runt of the.
Speaker 16 (01:44:19):
House and cleaned it up a little, and you know, discovered.
Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
Just things about the house that we didn't know about
before because it was so cluttered.
Speaker 8 (01:44:29):
Well, who was who was paying for the phone? Who
was paying for the power?
Speaker 2 (01:44:38):
Not me?
Speaker 1 (01:44:39):
I don't know, I guess I really don't know. The
phone was there, the power was there. I think his
parents were still paying for it.
Speaker 16 (01:44:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (01:44:48):
Were you giving him were you giving body money to
buy food or.
Speaker 3 (01:44:53):
How was that?
Speaker 1 (01:44:53):
Yes, I went grocery shopping. I started buying him a
few clothes. At one point, the power did.
Speaker 16 (01:44:59):
Shut off in the winter.
Speaker 8 (01:45:02):
The power was shut off, Yeah, was shut off free sire.
So how did you get by? Were you able to
get it turned back on?
Speaker 9 (01:45:08):
How did it?
Speaker 1 (01:45:08):
We had a furnace and we used candles for a while.
Speaker 8 (01:45:12):
It was very cold.
Speaker 1 (01:45:15):
I don't remember how they got the power on, But
Bobby had a friend or knew somebody that he had
come over to the house and he tinkered with a
meter on the side of the house and then we
had power again.
Speaker 8 (01:45:25):
So at this point in time. Life doesn't seem like
it was a very ideal, No, but it was.
Speaker 16 (01:45:30):
I I enjoyed the freedom.
Speaker 1 (01:45:32):
We just played it by ear. I got moved to
the graveyard shift at Denny's after someone's there, and so
we all became night owls, me and Bobby and all
of our circle of friends that we socialized with.
Speaker 8 (01:45:47):
At this point in time. Uh, how did Bobby treat you?
Speaker 1 (01:45:53):
I thought he treated me well until I discovered that
he wasn't being faithful.
Speaker 8 (01:46:00):
Okay, And when your relationship did you discover that.
Speaker 16 (01:46:06):
We had gone?
Speaker 1 (01:46:07):
He was on the party line a lot, and he
talked to this woman frequently. He said it'd she they
were just friends. They had been interested in each other
in the past, but they decided they were just friends.
It made me a little uncomfortable. He would talk to
her a lot, actually in my presence, so I figured
he's doing it right in front of me. There's nothing
going on there. So then one day he we went
(01:46:28):
to the library that's where I went for our internet access,
and he would email her a lot, and I took
I had to go to work at the Purple Plum,
and I dropped him off at his friend's house. And
I went to go to the Purple Plum, and before
(01:46:48):
going to the Purple Plumb, I went back to the
library and I clicked this is he had a hotmail account,
cause this is in nineteen ninety eight, so I clicked
the I don't know if they had different security things
ought mell at that point, but I clicked the back
button to see what was really going on with her
because I had suspicions. And I found a whole bunch
of love letters that he was writing her that were
(01:47:09):
all contemporaneous with the time that we were together.
Speaker 16 (01:47:12):
So I printed them out and I called and sick
for work because.
Speaker 1 (01:47:15):
I was not well emotionally, and I drove back out
to his friend's house and I didn't want to create
a scene of drama, so I just said, can I
talk to you? And so we went into the bathroom
and they pulled him out of my pocket and handed
him to him, and he opened him up and read
him and I I don't he kind of.
Speaker 8 (01:47:33):
Felt like shocked, kind of glossed over it a little
bit when you saw these letters, How did it make
you feel?
Speaker 1 (01:47:44):
It didn't make me feel good. He was very loving
and poetic with this person. And I could tell he
had real feelings for her, and I don't know, I
guess I felt jealous a little bit, but I my
heart was pounding. I just felt very dis Ea. I
forgot to mention. One of the things I did before
I went to the house is I drove back out
(01:48:06):
to Montague and I took all of my belongings out
of his room and put them in my car and
decided I was gonna move out and then with my grandmother.
So that's when we went. I went back to his
house and confronted him with those okay, or I mean
back to the friend's house.
Speaker 8 (01:48:23):
Sorry, you mentioned that he was this this woman whoever
d was, that he was corresponding with uh, that he
was treating her in a very loving, poetic way. Yes,
it leads to the implication anyway, that he wasn't that
way to you.
Speaker 16 (01:48:43):
He was initially, but.
Speaker 1 (01:48:47):
I don't know. I guess we had just sort of
gotten comfortable around each other, and we weren't r we
weren't fighting or anything. We were just kind of I
don't know, I don't really know how to explain it.
He was still loving toward me, but but he was
it seemed like he was going out of his way
to really court her, whereas I was already you know,
in the bag, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (01:49:08):
You were already What was that just like I was already.
Speaker 1 (01:49:12):
He didn't have to court me. I was already with him.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 8 (01:49:15):
Okay? Yes? Was Bobby ever physically abusive towards you.
Speaker 1 (01:49:24):
There was one time where we had a fight. Trying
to think, I think this was in ninety nine. We
had broken up and got back together a few times.
I broke up with him, obviously after that incident, and
then he somehow, I don't know, it's a long story,
but he convinced me to stay. So I stayed and
(01:49:44):
put all my things back, and he promised you wouldn't
have contact with her anymore. But we broke up a
few more times and then got back together. And at
one point I had moved out of his house and
I was living with another woman, and and it wasn't
far from his house. It was like two blocks, and
in Lanaguio there's a lot of fields that could actually
(01:50:06):
we could see each other's houses from there sort of.
And so I was advised over and over to get
away from him, cause he's not healthy. But you know
my heart was I was still I still cared about him.
So one day he came over to the house like
he always did, and we were hanging out and I
(01:50:28):
don't remember how, but an argument started and sustained. When
was this This was sometime in nineteen ninety nine. I
think it was in the fall, early fall, like September,
maybe even on August, but I think it was around
sometime in the early fall, okay, And.
Speaker 8 (01:50:50):
It was at the home. I did, was he physical
with you at this at this acquaintance's hall.
Speaker 3 (01:50:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:50:56):
Our argument escalated and he approached me and spun me around,
and he was very much into martial arts, so he
had some kind of hold. I guess it was called
a stranglehold. So he started strangling me and just for
a few seconds, and then he let go. I almost
passed out. I fell on my knees and it kind
of made me upset cause he'd never done that before.
(01:51:17):
So I got up. He started walking away. I got
up and I said something to him, like what did
I say, something to the effect of my family would
be very upset if they found out what you just did.
And then he began to describe in detail how he
would kill each member of my family. He knew a
(01:51:39):
lot about my family, so these were all very personalized
details about how they would die. And at that point
the argument escalated again and he attacked me again. Not
I don't know how, he jumped on me. And at
that point I was trying to get to the phone
(01:52:00):
to call nine one one, and he got my arm
in some kind of lock and was putting pressure on
the forearm and I thought he might break it, cause
that seemed to be what the goal was. So I
managed to grab the phone and I called nine one one,
and he grabbed it out of my hand and hung up,
and I was crying, and he kept telling you to
shut up because they were gonna call back. So he
(01:52:24):
was right. They the phone rang and he answered, and
he gave the operator an excuse like said, my girlfriend
was trying to program nine one one into the speed
dial and accidentally called it.
Speaker 8 (01:52:38):
This happened, and then you got back together with it,
right or you didn't really break up.
Speaker 16 (01:52:45):
This happened, and this was really I'm sorry, this was
really toward the end.
Speaker 1 (01:52:49):
Of our relationship. We still I don't this was really
toward the end. This was It didn't happen like, we
didn't stay together much longer after.
Speaker 8 (01:52:58):
That, But you did stay together after that, right.
Speaker 1 (01:53:00):
We continue to hang out. He met a friend that
he had known prior to His name was Matt, and
he moved in with Matt.
Speaker 8 (01:53:10):
And this was in Let me ask you this, Why
did you stay together with him after this incident?
Speaker 1 (01:53:17):
Well, I don't know that we were still together together,
but he would still come over to the house where
I lived, and it was just a nicer place to.
Speaker 16 (01:53:25):
Hang out in his and I just continued to hang
out with him in that regard.
Speaker 8 (01:53:31):
Why would you hang out with him in that regard?
Speaker 1 (01:53:36):
Well, the the the physical incident that occurred that day
that those two things were isolated, and during all the
years that I'd known him, that had never happened before.
So I just didn't think that it was something a
pattern of his or that would continue.
Speaker 8 (01:53:54):
Did you ever engage in sexual behavior with him after
this incident?
Speaker 16 (01:53:59):
I don't remember. Maybe not, maybe once or twice, I
don't remember, honestly.
Speaker 8 (01:54:05):
And why was that okay with you? After this incident?
Speaker 1 (01:54:08):
I still loved him.
Speaker 8 (01:54:11):
You mentioned point in time when Bobby moved in with
a individual named Matt. Yes, okay, and I believe you
were talking about how the end of your relationship with
Bobby you moved into your grandparents' home.
Speaker 1 (01:54:30):
Correct, Yes, I moved out of that woman's house and
into my grandmother's house.
Speaker 8 (01:54:38):
And what city is your grandmother's house located?
Speaker 6 (01:54:44):
Why?
Speaker 16 (01:54:44):
Weca?
Speaker 8 (01:54:46):
And did you live there just with your grandmother? Was
anyone else living?
Speaker 16 (01:54:50):
My grandfather also lived there and their dog ringo.
Speaker 8 (01:54:57):
Were you close to your grandparents parent?
Speaker 17 (01:55:00):
How was your relationship with that I felt close to
my grandparents, not like lovey dovey close, but they seem.
Speaker 16 (01:55:08):
They're very down to earth people. Well, my grandfather's my.
Speaker 1 (01:55:11):
Grandmother is very down to earth and I'm I can
just tell her anything and it doesn't really FaZe her.
Speaker 8 (01:55:17):
Why don't you move back in with your parents?
Speaker 1 (01:55:22):
Well? I didn't want to go back to that environment.
We got along very well after I moved out, and
I wanted to keep it that way.
Speaker 8 (01:55:29):
What tell us about your life after you move back
to your grandparents' home? Are you Are you still working
at Denny's? Do you go back to school? Just kind
of describe your life for us.
Speaker 1 (01:55:39):
Yes. After that incident occurred with Bobby, I had worked
at Denny's for about a year at that point. And
if you're a full time employee at Denny's or I
think a minimum of like thirty two hours a week,
you get vacation benefits. And so I decided to use
that time to spend away from him, and I flew
(01:56:00):
back to Costa Rica for a week and a half.
Speaker 8 (01:56:04):
And am I correct and assuming that was to spend
time with Victor.
Speaker 16 (01:56:08):
No, he didn't live in the house anymore. I stayed
with the same family, but he.
Speaker 1 (01:56:13):
Had moved out and moved on.
Speaker 8 (01:56:15):
So you spent about a week and a half. It
sounds like with Victor's family, not with him, Yes, and
kind of assessing your life is that.
Speaker 3 (01:56:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:56:26):
I spent a lot of time just reflecting and healing
from that, and I felt in a lot better place
by the time I came back Victor. Actually I didn't
see Victor three days before I flew back. So he
took me out to dinner and that was it, and
then drove me to the airport.
Speaker 8 (01:56:41):
Will you say healing from that? What are you talking
about healing from the relationship with Bobby?
Speaker 1 (01:56:48):
Yes, because we kept going back and I kept hearing
about incidents where he was trying to hook up with
other girls, but then he would deny it and I
didn't see anything, So there was just a lot of term. Well,
we were arguing still and then the physical incident that
happened there, and I needed to just remove myself from
the situation so that I could allow my heart to
(01:57:09):
move on a little. And so that break from him,
I thought had helped me a lot.
Speaker 8 (01:57:15):
So at some point in time, you were in love
with Bobby, Yes, very.
Speaker 16 (01:57:19):
Much, a lot more than I was Victor. Bobby was
like my first true love.
Speaker 8 (01:57:24):
Okay, So once you have spent some time in Costa
Rica and you've I guess, used your vacation time at Denny's,
you come back to I Rica, I pursue, Yes, I did, And.
Speaker 9 (01:57:39):
How do you.
Speaker 8 (01:57:42):
Have you proceed in your life?
Speaker 16 (01:57:44):
I went back to work and.
Speaker 1 (01:57:47):
I don't know if he was watching the restaurant, but
the first day back I was there, I went into
the back of the restaurant to get something and I
came back out and he was sitting at the counter. Bobby,
he just had his face in his hands, and he
has he has really beautiful eyes, and he was looking
at me with these eyes, these puppy dog eyes, and
I stopped, and I was kind of shocked.
Speaker 16 (01:58:08):
I felt stronger emotionally, not as weak.
Speaker 1 (01:58:11):
But I was coming up on my half hour break,
so I just I said, just you know, wait a
few minutes and we'll go outside and talk. So I
went outside and we ended up talking for a long time.
I mean we rounded the corner and then hugged, and
it was emotional and that kind of thing.
Speaker 8 (01:58:27):
Okay, But how did you I was that the last
time you see sawt of it?
Speaker 2 (01:58:34):
No?
Speaker 6 (01:58:35):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (01:58:36):
Did you continue in a relationship with him? After that?
Speaker 16 (01:58:39):
We decided we were gonna continue a relationship, but just
it didn't it.
Speaker 1 (01:58:45):
We weren't getting along very well.
Speaker 8 (01:58:47):
And I used a word relationship. Are we talking about
friendship or a romantic relationship?
Speaker 16 (01:58:53):
Romantic?
Speaker 8 (01:58:55):
Did that mean also meet sexual?
Speaker 15 (01:58:56):
Uh?
Speaker 16 (01:58:57):
It would have meant that. I don't really remember, but yeah,
it him at that Okay.
Speaker 8 (01:59:02):
So why at this point in time were you still
open to the idea of a romantic and uh potentially
sexual relationship with a man who had choked you and
throwed you down as you described.
Speaker 1 (01:59:21):
Well, like I said, I considered those incidents isolated and
not a pattern of his and I still loved him,
and I he v he still loved me, and I
didn't want to hurt him, and I didn't want to.
I don't know, it just we were we were. It
just felt natural. I'd been with him for some years.
He was my first love. Being with him, whether it
(01:59:41):
was good or bad, it just felt natural, and it
was what I was accustomed to.
Speaker 8 (01:59:45):
Okay, So at what point in time then do you decide?
Speaker 2 (01:59:49):
Do you?
Speaker 8 (01:59:49):
Said?
Speaker 6 (01:59:50):
You?
Speaker 8 (01:59:50):
And Bobby explored this and decided it wasn't for the best.
When does when does that take place?
Speaker 1 (01:59:57):
There was sort of a turning point in my mind. Well, Costarica,
it was like a good starting point where I began.
Speaker 16 (02:00:03):
I thought i'd moved on.
Speaker 1 (02:00:04):
If I hadn't seen him again, I think I would
have been okay as far as never.
Speaker 16 (02:00:07):
Seeing him again.
Speaker 1 (02:00:08):
But I was weak when he came back, and so
he sort of picked up again briefly. He moved to Medford,
Oregon shortly thereafter. It's about fifty miles north of wuy Rica,
and he moved in with Matt and I would go
up there and visit Bobby and we'd hang out, and
it seemed like once Bobby got on his feet, he.
Speaker 16 (02:00:28):
Didn't really want anything to do with me, and.
Speaker 1 (02:00:30):
So it it it hurt my feelings, I guess because
he had kind of won me back and I was
helping him, but then when he got.
Speaker 8 (02:00:38):
On his feet, he was kind of mean, what do
you mean you were helping him?
Speaker 1 (02:00:42):
Well, I always helped him out until he was able
to get it. He finally got a job. When he
moved to Medford, he met there was a woman he
knew that was a notary public that grew up with
him in school. So she was able to say, this
is really who he is, so he could get I
identification and we finally figure that out.
Speaker 10 (02:00:57):
And so let me interrupt.
Speaker 8 (02:01:01):
I want to make sure we're clear here, even after
the incident, that what you were describing as an isolated
incident of violence, even after the point in time when
you find him find letters that are evidence that he's
(02:01:23):
being unfaithful with you, and you come back from Costa Rica,
you're going to move on, You've decided a romantic relationship.
Speaker 6 (02:01:34):
Is it going to work?
Speaker 8 (02:01:36):
Are we to understand that you're still supporting him financially
as well or helping him?
Speaker 1 (02:01:42):
That was a little bit out of order, but I
did continue to help him. When I found out about
the love letters, he promised to cut ties with her
and not have any contact with her anymore. And it
wasn't physical, it was online only. She lived in Louisiana,
and I think he was still talking, but he promised me,
You'll never have to see me talking to her. So
(02:02:03):
it was implied that he might talk to her, but
he'll never do it in my presence.
Speaker 16 (02:02:07):
So that was kind of strange.
Speaker 1 (02:02:10):
And then again the physical incident was isolated. So you know,
if he needed clothing, would I didn't like buy him
a whole wardrobe. I didn't have that kind of income,
but if he needed a few shirts or something. He
was really into South Park, so he saw these cell
Park t shirts one time and he wanted those, so
I bought them sweatshirt, jeans, that kind of thing, just
some kind of clothing for him because his parents weren't
(02:02:33):
able to provide that at that point. They were in
a rest home.
Speaker 8 (02:02:36):
Oat And you said at this point in time, Bobby
was living in Medford, Oregon with an individual named Matt Right. Yes, okay,
And just so we can get a sense of where
this is comparative to why Rika could you describe for
(02:02:57):
US where Medford is compared to Wayrica.
Speaker 1 (02:03:00):
Yes, it's on Interstate Vibe, just like by Rica. It's
over the border. It's about an hour drive I think
fifty miles, but it takes about an hour to get there,
depending on traffic and the weather.
Speaker 8 (02:03:11):
And I'm certainly not asking for population estimates, but is
this a bigger town than it's a.
Speaker 1 (02:03:16):
Bigger town, not nearly as big as this area. It's
very tiny in comparison, but it's much bigger than my weeka.
Speaker 2 (02:03:23):
And you.
Speaker 8 (02:03:26):
Made trips up to Medford to see Bobby, is that right?
Speaker 3 (02:03:30):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (02:03:30):
I would come up there on the weekend and stay.
Bobby had a food time. They had kind of a studio,
so Matt slept in his own bed and Bobby and
I had a food time, and I would just we
would hang out on the weekends and go.
Speaker 16 (02:03:43):
Out and do things.
Speaker 8 (02:03:44):
Okay, And how many of these trips can you say?
I mean, was this something you did every weekend? How
frequently did you go up to spend time with Bobby?
Speaker 1 (02:03:59):
I went up several times, but that period of our
relationship was short lived, so it was that.
Speaker 16 (02:04:04):
Didn't happen often. I mean very extensively.
Speaker 1 (02:04:08):
Kay.
Speaker 8 (02:04:09):
And uh, this person Matt that he was roommates with.
Had you known Matt prior to these trips up to Medford?
Speaker 7 (02:04:18):
No?
Speaker 8 (02:04:19):
Okay, And does Matt have a last name McCartney. Did
you ever develop any sort of friendship or relationship with him?
Speaker 1 (02:04:27):
Yes, we became friends around the time. I think he
kind of noticed how Bobby was treating me, and it
felt good to have somebody else kind of see my
side of it. He wasn't attacking Bobby by any means,
like saying, hey, you should be this way of that,
but it just, you know, I s Actually I came
(02:04:48):
up there one weekend to visit and another girl came
to visit Matt, and it was a real eye opener
because I saw how Matt was treating her, and he
was very chivalrous and very polite, and he was a
gentleman and he just treated her with a lot of respect,
and that's not something I had received. But you know,
I've seen it on TV and that kind of thing.
So it was just jarring to see that and then
(02:05:09):
see and then consider my relationship.
Speaker 8 (02:05:12):
So well, let me let me ask you this. She
said that that was surprising for you to see right, yes,
and that is in a way that you experienced Bobby
treating me, Is that right?
Speaker 1 (02:05:24):
Nope, Yes, that's right.
Speaker 8 (02:05:27):
But you lived with your parents for seventeen years, the
first seventeen years of your life, right, yes? Did you
not see your father treat your mother in this way?
Speaker 6 (02:05:43):
Did?
Speaker 8 (02:05:44):
Did they treat each other in a different manner?
Speaker 1 (02:05:47):
When I was young? My father was very affectionate with
my mom. I've seen them kids, I've seen them embrace,
Like there's a beautiful woman on TV and we're sitting
around watching it. He'll say, she's not as pretty as
your mom, or you know, he he put her on
a sort of a pedestal sort of.
Speaker 16 (02:06:03):
But then there were times when they would argue.
Speaker 1 (02:06:04):
And fight things like that.
Speaker 8 (02:06:08):
He say, argue and fight, what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (02:06:11):
Not physical? They would just well sometimes I mean he
would say something. My dad's very sarcastic and he thinks
he's funny, and sometimes he is, but he can be
very uncouth sometimes, and so when things would come out
of his mouth, my mom would just smack him on
the arm and he would smack her back kind of
as a way to say he don't do that, And
then she would be offended by that, so she would
(02:06:31):
smack him back, and then he'd smack even harder, and
then she would give up. But it was just on
the arm. But you know, that's the only time I
ever saw him be physical at all.
Speaker 8 (02:06:39):
Did you know, Uh, how did your father father treat
your mother? Was he degrading to her? Did he criticize her?
Speaker 2 (02:06:50):
He?
Speaker 1 (02:06:50):
I can't recall specific incidents, but that's very much my dad.
He's very negative, he's very critical.
Speaker 8 (02:06:58):
He's very gossipy, Harry, what was that?
Speaker 1 (02:07:03):
I don't know if that's a word. Gossipy. He gossips
a lot about people.
Speaker 16 (02:07:06):
Behind their back. He talks about them.
Speaker 1 (02:07:11):
So, I mean he'll say things about now we talk
on the phone now, and he'll say things about my
mom sometimes or sometimes they have complaints about each other,
but you know they're still loyal to each other.
Speaker 8 (02:07:22):
Well, what do you mean things he would say about
your mom? What co what things would he complain about
with your mothers approach me continue without specifically what you said.
Was there certain sides of matters that your dad would
(02:07:42):
you degrade your mother?
Speaker 1 (02:07:44):
Regarding one I recall specifically, is my mother used to
be very thin, and I think she's like a size
tend now.
Speaker 16 (02:07:54):
I would guess.
Speaker 1 (02:07:55):
He used to put up photos of her on the
refrigerator when she was thinner, and he would make comments
about her weight gain and just he would put little
things like that around the house to.
Speaker 16 (02:08:08):
Remind her that he would prefer her.
Speaker 1 (02:08:10):
With less weight, things like that. So I don't know
how that affected her, but that was pretty constant. If
somebody was crossing the crosswalk that was overweight, he would
yell at them.
Speaker 16 (02:08:21):
And I won't say what he said.
Speaker 1 (02:08:22):
But.
Speaker 16 (02:08:25):
I don't know things like that.
Speaker 8 (02:08:26):
Okay, But you said your mother would just simply you
said to you something to the effect you learned. Uh uh.
They were always loyal.
Speaker 10 (02:08:40):
To each other.
Speaker 8 (02:08:41):
Yes, your mom was always loyal to your dad. What
do you mean? What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (02:08:49):
Well, my parents weren't the kind where if one said no,
you couldn't run to the other and have a different answer.
Maybe if they didn't weren't aware of the other of
their spouse's answer. But they were very united. If we
were fighting, it didn't matter the points of the argument.
My dad would side with my mom or my old
side with my dad at all times. So they were
(02:09:11):
very They were.
Speaker 16 (02:09:12):
Like one unit. They were very united.
Speaker 1 (02:09:13):
They're very loyal and it I think when I was younger,
I heard my I think I heard my mom mentioned
the word divorce one time. But and that really like
shook me because I thought it just didn't seem I
couldn't imagine a world where my parents weren't married. And
so they're still married today. I mean, even through bad times,
they they're still together, they still love each other.
Speaker 8 (02:09:35):
Well, I should have been more clear in my question.
You know, you talked about loyalty as parents and backing
each other up and that sort of thing. But whatever
was really asking about is in terms of the loyalty
of the of the relationship. Sounds like, from what you're
telling us, your mom put up with a fair amount
(02:09:58):
and remained loyal to your dad.
Speaker 1 (02:10:00):
What I'm hearing you say, yes, Yeah, they're very loyal.
They're still married. They've been married about thirty three and
a half years. My grandparents are married. There's not a
very high divorce rate in my family. They're still together.
Speaker 8 (02:10:13):
Okay, we were talking about this different way. Matt McCartney
was treating a female. I guess it was his girlfriend
or somebody was dating. Is that correct?
Speaker 16 (02:10:32):
Did you get somebody he had met online or somehow.
Speaker 1 (02:10:35):
She lived in Crescent City and she just came out
for the weekend the same time I came out to
see Bobby. And nothing ever really progressed with that. They
didn't start dating or anything like that. They just hung
out for the weekend, and I just saw how he
was treating her.
Speaker 8 (02:10:50):
Okay, tell me how things then progressed in your life.
Did you just keep working? Did you like change?
Speaker 16 (02:11:01):
I wanted to.
Speaker 1 (02:11:05):
I wanted to work in a in an environment where
I could earn a little bit more money.
Speaker 16 (02:11:10):
I needed a new car.
Speaker 1 (02:11:13):
There were different kinds of bills coming in at this point,
and Medford is a town that has a lot more restaurants,
a lot more business, that kind of thing. So, as
I got to know Matt and Bobby, Matt's mother lives
in Maa, Rika too, so I met her and his
sister and we all sort of became friends. And Matt's
dad lived in a city called Phoenix. It's in just
(02:11:35):
south of Medford and it's in Oregon, and he had
he lived with his girlfriend Matt's dad, and they had
an extra well they staid just come crash on a
couch until you can get a job and get your
own place. So I crashed on Matt's dad's couch where
he and his girlfriend lived for I don't remember how long,
maybe a month, and I got a job at Applebee's
(02:11:55):
and began to work there. Okay, So.
Speaker 8 (02:12:00):
Did you then move to med move out of your
grandparent's house and moved to Medford? Just tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (02:12:04):
Yes, Right around the time I moved to Medford, Bobby
and I stopped talking. He actually I was hanging out
with him and his sister and her son, and they
were renting house right across the street from my parents' house.
So I was over there hanging out with them, and
(02:12:25):
Bobby came by and saw Matt and I and this,
I would say, at this point it was early two thousand,
I think.
Speaker 8 (02:12:37):
Okay, and at this point in time, Matt McCartney's your boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (02:12:41):
Yes, well, I don't remember I was making it official,
but we became romantic and then yeah, we were a
boyfriend girlfriend.
Speaker 8 (02:12:46):
Okay, just this might be a good time.
Speaker 3 (02:12:49):
Great ladies and gentlemen, tomorrow morning, ten thirty, please remember
the admonition have a nice evening. You are excused, please
be seated Council, anything before we adjourn for the day,
All right, let's bring in the jury.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Please be seated.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
The record will show the presence of the jury, the defendant,
and all council.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Have any of you seen any media coverage or heard
any media coverage about I see no hands, so we'll
want you may continue. The Court is sustaining the objection
to Exhibits three ninety three and three ninety four.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
Yes, Lonnie Dworkin and mister Drkin, we left off with
some pictures that you already have up there on your desk,
Exhibits three ninety three and.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Three ninety four. We were talking about a mirror image
or a copy of a hard drive. Do you remember that?
Speaker 6 (00:53):
If you can refresh my memory and I remember the
exact context.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Okay, Well, we were just talking about a mirror image
and things that you pulled off with that mirror.
Speaker 6 (01:00):
Image from where these photos came from? Yeah, yes, I
remember that, okay, And.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
The mirror image was taken of a hard drive. Do
you know who that hard drive belonged to?
Speaker 7 (01:13):
According to the documentation that was provided along with the
hard drive attached to the hard drive and notes I
had received separately previously from the MESA police department.
Speaker 6 (01:24):
It appeared to belong to Jody Aires.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And those two pictures Exhibits three ninety three and three
ninety four, are those two pictures that came off of
that mirror image of the hard drive.
Speaker 7 (01:36):
Yes, I removed them from the copied them off from
the forensic copy the mirror image.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
All right, Okay, I want to talk to you. I
want to move on a little bit, and let's talk
about a heliophone that you looked at. Okay, what is
a heliophone.
Speaker 6 (01:56):
A helio phone. It's actually Ocean helio.
Speaker 8 (02:00):
It's a.
Speaker 7 (02:02):
Early predecessor to today's smartphones. It has a dual function keyboard,
so you can slide the phone in one way and
reveal a dial pad with just numerical keys, or you
can slide the phone in a different way and reveal
a full keyboard quority keyboard. And it had some multimedia features,
(02:25):
had the ability to surf the web, take photographs, record audio,
things of that nature.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
All right, And did you look at a heliophone.
Speaker 6 (02:33):
In this case, yes, Helio Ocean.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And did you actually receive the phone itself?
Speaker 6 (02:40):
Yes, I did receive the phone.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Do you know when you did? When you received it.
Speaker 6 (02:43):
I would have to check my records.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay, can you do that?
Speaker 6 (02:46):
Sure?
Speaker 7 (02:56):
Sorry?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Can you challenge when you received video?
Speaker 7 (03:13):
I received the Helio the Ocean Helio phone on June thirtieth,
twenty ten.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Okay, and when you received it, what'd you do with it?
Speaker 7 (03:22):
I secured it in my evidence locker, and then at
a later date I processed the phone to extract information.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
And what do you mean process the phone? Did you
have a protocol that you do I do.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
I would have to refer. I generated several reports.
Speaker 7 (03:38):
Each report had a different objective or scope. I can
speak generally to my protocol and specifically some of the
challenges I faced with this phone, or I can pull
my reports up and talk to each one.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Let's talk about specifically. Did you have any problems with
the phone pulling information?
Speaker 7 (03:56):
Well?
Speaker 6 (03:56):
I had some challenges.
Speaker 7 (04:00):
Generally, with cell phone forensics, we like to use forensically
established protocols and tools that go along with those protocols.
So there are some very popular forensic tools out in
the marketplace that will allow us to attach to a
cell phone and extract the information in a repeatable, very
(04:21):
comprehensive manner. However, prior to these specialized forensic tools showing up.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
In the industry.
Speaker 8 (04:28):
We used to be.
Speaker 7 (04:31):
Left with either using commercial available tools to extract data
or sometimes something as simple as screen captures, and we
found that screen captures were court accepted, and so that
was always the fallback method. With this specific phone, the
Ocean Helio brand, there were no forensic tools and I
(04:53):
just recently checked and there still are no forensic tools
available that can actually attach to the phone and extract
the information directly.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
So I was relegated to.
Speaker 7 (05:03):
Having to just take screen captures to capture the information
from the phone, with the exception of I believe the
audio the audio I actually played on the phone and
captured it over an adapter, a wire adapter that's able
to plug into the headset that came with the cell phone.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Tell me, well, before we get to the audio, do
you know who this phone belonged to.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
I believe it belonged to Jody Aires.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
When did you get a chance to turn on the phone.
Speaker 7 (05:33):
Yes, that was part of my process of extracting the information.
Speaker 6 (05:37):
I had to turn on the phone.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Okay, so when you turn on the phone, were there
any photos that came up.
Speaker 6 (05:41):
On the phone.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
It had a big screen on the front of the phone,
and as soon as you powered on the phone, there
was a photograph of Jody Aires, and.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Then it goes to ownership over world.
Speaker 6 (05:55):
A photo of Jody Aires and another young lady.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Okay, all right, let's talk a little bit about the audio.
Can you explain to me what you mean by you
plugged it to get the audio off of the phone.
Speaker 9 (06:09):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (06:10):
Typically, before I examine a phone, especially when that I'm
not familiar with, such as the Ocean Helio, I obtained
a copy of the user manual and reviewed the user manual. Typically,
the first step is to make sure that I don't
change anything on the cell phone, and so I want
to make sure I put the cell phone into what's
called airplane mode, so can't send or receive any wireless signals.
(06:35):
This helps limit the amount of changes that could occur
on the phone.
Speaker 6 (06:39):
After I did that, I had noted in the manual
that it had the ability to.
Speaker 7 (06:43):
Record audio or memos, and I did locate a audio
recording application on the phone. It's part of the built
in suite of applications that comes with the phone, and
I was able to identified approximately seven or eight recordings
(07:03):
that have been recorded over.
Speaker 6 (07:04):
A period of time, and I was able to play those.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
What I did was the phone when I received it,
it came with a little headset adapter, not actually a headset,
but I had a very small microphone jack or headphone
jack on the side of the cell phone. It wouldn't
take a normal size headphone jack. So with this adapter,
I was able to plug it into the side of
the phone and then attach.
Speaker 8 (07:27):
That to.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
A recorder on my computer and play the audio from
the phone over that wire and recorded onto my computer.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So was it recorded directly onto your computer?
Speaker 6 (07:41):
Correct?
Speaker 7 (07:42):
I did not just play the audio over its internal
speaker and then try to pick it up with a microphone.
I connected the phone directly from its audio out or
headphone jack directly to my computer, and I recorded the audio.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And what did you do with that audio after you
recorded it?
Speaker 7 (08:03):
I saved that as part of an overall report and
provided that the set of audio filing, along with other
recovered items as part of a CD report.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Okay, And then you said you had you did screen captures.
Speaker 6 (08:18):
Yes, that was the.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
Only option to capture call logs, messages, photographs, things of
that nature.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Okay, And what's a screen capture?
Speaker 7 (08:26):
A screen capture is quite simply turning on the phone.
Information is displayed on the phone could be a photo,
could be a call log. And I have a camera
that's in a special rig so to speak, that suspended
over the phone, and I can I can take photographs
of each screen as I page through each screen.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
It's a laborious process.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
But all right, and is that what you did in
this in this situation?
Speaker 10 (08:52):
Yes, all right?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Did you also look at a canon camera?
Speaker 7 (08:58):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Do you know when you did that?
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Approximately?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Do you need to look yes?
Speaker 6 (09:05):
Okay, go ahead, have to check another source for the record.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Okay, let's go back a second to the helio. Okay,
before you do that. When you were talking about screen captures,
the screen captures, did you take screen captures or pictures
of the text messages that were on the helio?
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
All right, Ji approach three n one and three ninety
two ocean you okay, captures from the helio?
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Yes, these appear to be from the helio phone.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
All right? And those are just photographs of the actual
phone itself. Yes, And what are those photographs of? Not
the content, but what are those photographs of?
Speaker 7 (09:54):
These are photographs of messages that were taken over the phone.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
These are the textual portions of the messages.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Okay, all right, and was that something? Are these things
that you also took off then at the same time
that you were dealing with the audio? Was this all
part of your examination?
Speaker 6 (10:13):
I believe?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
So yeah, all right, let's go back to the canon.
Speaker 6 (10:19):
Okay, almost there.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I don't mind.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
He was looking at whatever he was looking.
Speaker 8 (10:24):
You just had what he looked at first.
Speaker 11 (10:26):
I think it was a computer, and I was looking
at something else, so that the record accurately her clients
what he's referring to.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes, did you what did you look at?
Speaker 10 (10:35):
First?
Speaker 7 (10:36):
The first thing I looked at was a calendar I
maintained for my activities. When I received the camera, I
was actually in another hearing here in court, and I
was called down to receive the camera from defense.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (10:56):
I came down and received the camera, and then, because
I did not know it was going to be receiving it,
I had no paperwork with me.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Normally, I have.
Speaker 7 (11:06):
An item receipt or a chain of custody form with
me when I pick up evidence items.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
In this case, I did not.
Speaker 7 (11:15):
I received the camera, and that's why I'm having to
go back to my digital system, because when I got
back to my lab, I checked it into my evidence locker,
and for that, I have a digital system which is
not on my computer, but it's on my iPhone. So
now I'm checking my digital record back from my office
on my iPhone.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Okay, okay, I'm ready with my answer.
Speaker 7 (11:41):
I have a record of checking in into my evidence
locker on January fifteenth of what year of this year?
Speaker 6 (11:52):
And I just checked my calendar and I.
Speaker 7 (11:56):
See that I have my quarter appearance and the other
case on the fifteenth, and so these coincides, so I
believe I received it on January fifteenth, twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
All right, have you reviewed cameras before in your experience?
Speaker 6 (12:11):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
What do you have, like a standard protocol or what
is it that you do when you receive a camera.
Speaker 7 (12:17):
Yes, I have a standard protocol for reviewing cameras. The
first step when I receive a camera is I obtain
a copy of the user manual so I can learn
about some of the.
Speaker 6 (12:28):
Key features of the camera.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
Specifically, I'd like to know if it has any internal memory.
I'd like to know if it has the ability to
maintain day and time. Most digital cameras today do. I
also want to make sure that to check other features,
for example, the ability to take remote photos if it
(12:50):
has a timer built into it, other salient features. Also,
I'd like to learn what kind of memory cards does
it take and how many. Some of the professional cameras,
for example, can take two different types of memory cards,
and sometimes those memory cards are two different types of
memory cards.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
So I want to make sure I don't inadvertently overlook.
Speaker 7 (13:11):
Something when I examine the camera. Once I receive the
evidence item if it sometimes it comes in an enclosure
or carrying case, So the protocol is to inspect all
the contents of the carrying case, all the pockets, hidden pockets,
and so forth, and photograph and document the contents, and
then I move on to the camera itself. I take
(13:33):
photographs of the camera as well, and then, based on
the information I got when I reviewed the user guide,
I remove the memory cards, set them aside. I take
photographs of those as well, and then i'll if I can,
I'll power on the camera.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Please be seated.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
The record will show the jury has off the courtroom,
Miss Wilmot. The images on the screen.
Speaker 12 (13:58):
Thank you, okay, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
He serious.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
You may come forward and take a seat her.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
You can line the jury up. Line up the.
Speaker 13 (14:24):
Jury, please be seated.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
The record will show the presence of the jury, the defendant,
and all counsel.
Speaker 14 (14:35):
Mister Jeremy, I believe that serious needs to be sworn
calling your plan.
Speaker 8 (14:40):
Yes, the defense calls Jody as serious.
Speaker 13 (14:43):
Please stand to be sworn you right now.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
You can sell this.
Speaker 15 (14:46):
Where the testimony you're about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help
you out.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Please be seated. You may proceed.
Speaker 8 (14:56):
Thank you. Hi, Jody, Hi, how are you feeling right now?
I want to ask you, well, let me ask you
this is this a position you ever thought you would
find yourself in testifying here today? Judge right.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Approach.
Speaker 8 (15:16):
Please let me ask you a couple of important questions
before we get back and start talking about who you
are and why you're here. Okay, did you kill Travis
Alexander on June fourth, two thousand and eight?
Speaker 16 (15:38):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I did. Why The simple answer is that he attacked
me any defense.
Speaker 8 (15:50):
It was also brought up during this these proceedings that
you gave an interview with Inside Edition. Do you remember
seeing that tape?
Speaker 16 (16:00):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (16:00):
I do, And in that tape, you said that no
jury would convict you something to that effectory. Remember saying that,
Remember saying that.
Speaker 16 (16:11):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Why I made that statement in September two thousand and eight,
I believe it was, And at the time I had
plans to commit suicide. So I was extremely confident that
no jury would convict me because I didn't expect any
of you to be here. I didn't expect to be here,
(16:33):
so I could have easily said no. Juri would have
quit me either. I couldn't say that, though, because there
was an officer sitting five feet behind me, and had
I told him the reason no jury would convict me
at that time, I would have been thrown into a
padded cell and stripped down, and that would have been
my life for a while until I stabilized. So I
(16:55):
was very confident that no jury would convict me because
I planned to be dead. Probably the most bitter words
I'll ever eat.
Speaker 8 (17:03):
I'm sorry, what was that I said?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Those are probably the most bitter words I'll ever.
Speaker 8 (17:07):
Eat, miss Arius. I want I want to clarify another
thing as well. I'm talking. Your name has been pronounced
and most of this trial areas. Is there another way
of pronouncing any of you always pronounced it arias.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I've heard it pronounced about seven different ways. I say arias,
as does the rest of my family.
Speaker 8 (17:28):
Okay, Well, let's back up a little bit and then
talk about your family. Who is in your immediate family?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
My immediate family consists of I'm the oldest of my parents.
They also have had another son about two years after
I was born, my brother, and then I have another
younger sister and another younger brother. I also have an
(17:57):
older sister from a previous mary of my father's.
Speaker 8 (18:02):
Okay, so let me see if I Well, first of all,
what are the names of.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Your parents, Bill and Sandy areas?
Speaker 8 (18:11):
And are they still married at this time?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yes, about thirty three years okay.
Speaker 8 (18:17):
And you said you are the oldest child of Bill
and Sandy, correct. And you have a half sister that
is older than you, is that right?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yes, she's five years older than me.
Speaker 8 (18:33):
And that is your father's daughter.
Speaker 16 (18:36):
Yes, from a previous marriage.
Speaker 8 (18:38):
Okay. And you have a brother that's two years younger
than you, right, yes, okay? And what is his name?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
His name is Carl.
Speaker 8 (18:50):
And you mentioned a I believe the next youngest would
have been another sister.
Speaker 16 (18:56):
What was your name? Angela?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Kay?
Speaker 8 (18:59):
And youngest brother who is he?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Joseph? Okay?
Speaker 8 (19:04):
And just so we get a bit of separation, how
much younger than you is Angela?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Angela was born when I was eleven, and Joseph was
born when I was thirteen.
Speaker 8 (19:13):
And what a year were you born?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Nineteen eighty?
Speaker 8 (19:19):
Do you remember where you grew up?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah? I grew up in a few different cities. I
was born in Salinas, California, and I lived there until
I was almost twelve.
Speaker 8 (19:29):
And what was life like in Salina's.
Speaker 16 (19:34):
For the first years of my life? It was really good.
Speaker 8 (19:39):
When you said that, let's look before you continue, let's clarify.
What do you mean by first years?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I would say, until about age seven, it was a
fairly ideal childhood.
Speaker 8 (19:50):
Okay, what do you Different people have different meanings when
they say ideal, So why don't you describe for us
what you mean by idea of childhood?
Speaker 16 (20:00):
I have predominantly positive memories of my childhood at that time.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
My brother and I lived in When I was about
four years old, we moved to a house in a
cul de sac. We had the center lot, so it
was a huge backyard and We had a lot of
places to play there. There were trees to climb, there
were other kids in the neighborhood and in the cul
de sac that we played with. We were close in age,
(20:26):
so we were. My family traveled a lot. We went camping.
We went to all the theme parks in California.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
Did you go to school?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Of course, yes, I went to school.
Speaker 8 (20:39):
And you went to grade school in Salinas.
Speaker 17 (20:42):
Then yes, I went to a private school for about
three years.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
And then a public school.
Speaker 8 (20:50):
Were you in carl And school together? Did you go
to different schools?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
We were in school together. I was held back in kindergarten,
so even though we're two years apart, he was only
one grade behind me.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
And tell us about your parents at that time to
your recollection, were they both working? Was your mom at home?
Tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, when I was younger, I remember my mom used
to work. I guess she was working as a server
with my dad. He owned restaurants my whole life, and
then when I was around eleven or twelve, she became
a dental assistant.
Speaker 8 (21:23):
Okay, and you mentioned your life was, well, let me
ask you a question. Do you remember what your interests
were as a child.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yes, I had pets, cats, dog fish, I had a rat.
Speaker 16 (21:39):
I loved animals.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
We had a lot of pets. My brother had frogs,
things like that. We played a lot of pop Scotch
and two square when we were younger. We went roller skating.
They didn't really have rollerblades yet, or at least that
we used. We rode bikes a lot. We did a
(22:03):
lot of camping. I'm sorry, I kind of forgot the question.
Speaker 8 (22:10):
Well, you're speaking very quietly. Are you nervous today?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, yes I am.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yes, okay, very nervous.
Speaker 8 (22:17):
Could you do me a favor and pull the mic
a little closer to you, Jody. One of the things
that you said a couple questions ago when we were
speaking is that your life was pretty ideal up until
about age seven. It is something different after age seven or.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
It seemed like, well my parents would just you know,
spank us or hit us as disciplined. So it seemed
like at age seven around then, it started getting a
little bit more intense. That's something I remember.
Speaker 8 (22:56):
You said they started spanking here.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Well, I was saying before on occasion, just it seemed
like the frequency and the intensity of it increased.
Speaker 16 (23:04):
Around that age.
Speaker 8 (23:06):
What do you mean by that frequency and intensity?
Speaker 16 (23:11):
Well, just.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
There were I think that's the first year my dad
started using a belt. My mom began to carry a
wooden spoon in her purse to stand.
Speaker 13 (23:26):
All right, let's bring in the jury.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Please be seated the record.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
We'll show the presence of the jury, the dependent and
our council may continue with redirect.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Thank you, ETI, good afternoon.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Mister Dorkin, good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I just have just a few questions I think for
you with regard to with regard to exhipt At four nineteen,
and that's the exhibit four nineteen. That's the exhibit of
the history that you created on mister Alexander's computer, or
that you looked at mister Alexander's computer.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
Yes, is that right?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
All right? And this was you said. These entries that
we specifically looked at were between somewhere between four in
the morning to four thirty five in the morning. Yes,
were there many more.
Speaker 6 (24:31):
Entries than that in that time frame?
Speaker 8 (24:33):
Were in total?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
No total, at the Internet history that you looked.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
At, there were approximately.
Speaker 7 (24:41):
Almost one hundred thousand, like nine hundred and ninety It
was like a ninety nine thousand plus entries, okay.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And these ones that we specifically looked at, and Exhibit
four nineteen had to do with the time timing of
around four or four thirty in the morning.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
Is that right correctly?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Were you asked to ever look at any of the
YouTube videos? We've asked some questions about a mirror image
the hard drive?
Speaker 10 (25:08):
Yes, okay?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Did you have access to the actual hard drive itself?
Speaker 6 (25:14):
Which hard drive are you referring to.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Miss areas? Is the broken one.
Speaker 10 (25:17):
The broken one?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Okay. Did you have access to the broken hard drive?
Speaker 15 (25:22):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (25:22):
I had the forensic copy of the.
Speaker 8 (25:23):
Broken hard drive.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Did you actually see the broken hard drive?
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Also?
Speaker 6 (25:27):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And when you got a mere image of that broken
hard drive, is that just something that you can just
kind of plug into a computer and any one of
us can look at what's on it?
Speaker 7 (25:40):
The forensic copy's copy is in a forensic format, so
you would need to have a viewer that can view
that type of format or the forensic tool.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
That created it.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
So, and what kind of viewer did you have?
Speaker 7 (25:54):
I have the forensic tool that has a built in
ability to view it called end case.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Okay. So is that something that you had to use
on the mirror image before you can pull up any
of these images. Yes, And about how many images or
photos were contained on that mirror image of Mysterius's hard.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
I have to check my record. I don't know that
off hand.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Okay. Even about numbers.
Speaker 6 (26:19):
I don't know off hand.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Okay, can I check sure and let us know what
you're referring.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
I'd have to load up one of my CDs. I
don't have a preloaded on the computer.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
All right, Well, let me ask you this way. There
was when you used n case. Did you come up
with around one hundred over one hundred different files when
I used end case, When you used end case on
the mirror image of the.
Speaker 7 (26:43):
Broken hard drive, I remember there was a very large number,
literally thousands of images and files that we recovered.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
Okay, I just can't give you the exact number right now.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
That's okay, that's that's that's really my question. So there
was thousands of.
Speaker 7 (26:57):
Images, but yes, there were thousands of It took days
to recover the information, had to run recovery scripts for
quite some time.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
When you say days, do you mean did you leave
the end case or the recovery program running for days?
Speaker 6 (27:12):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
And is that in order to help help it retrieve
everything off of the mirror image. Yes, okay, thank you,
touch nothing for them.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Looks like we have one question for major perhaps two
the council please approach.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Mister Jorkan Ainger.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Has some questions for you. Our date and time stamps
on photos taken by digital cameras able to be manually
changed and or manipulated?
Speaker 6 (27:44):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Could that occur before a photo was taken or after
a photo was taken?
Speaker 7 (27:53):
The file wouldn't have existed prior to the photo being taken,
so you couldn't do it before the photo or the
file would actually actually have to exist.
Speaker 6 (28:01):
And then go in after the fact and then manipulate it.
The only other way to do that.
Speaker 7 (28:05):
Would, of course, would be to change the date time
setting in the camera itself.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Any other questions from the jurors follow up?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I had to exit information as well.
Speaker 7 (28:22):
Yes, if the cameras you're referring to my comment about
the cameras day and time, Yes, if the day and
time in the camera is changed, the exit can only
contain the information that the camera has access to.
Speaker 6 (28:35):
So if the camera thinks.
Speaker 7 (28:36):
It's this particular day and time, that's what's going to
be incorporated in the exit data and would also most
likely be reflected in the filesystem data as well.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
And when you did you were you able to turn
on this cannon camera.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
I may have been able to turn it on.
Speaker 7 (28:51):
I did not attempt to because I knew that the
camera had been seized in storage for quite a long time,
and usually the date time information is lost, and since
there wasn't a specific reason to do it at the
time I was asked to, and I did not.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And did you see any evidence of manipulation of time
and date stamps?
Speaker 7 (29:14):
No, nothing struck me as being out of order. I
did do an inspection.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
A casual or informal inspection.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
While I looked at the ex of data, I also
looked at the filesystem data to see if they were
out of alignment, and they all seemed to match. So
I didn't find anything out of the ordinary or unusual.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
All right, thank you nothing for the job, mister Martinez.
Speaker 8 (29:40):
So with regard to.
Speaker 11 (29:43):
Exhibit number four thirteen, which is one of the photographs,
is it possible that, for example, this particular photograph, that
it was taken in two thousand and seven and then
uploaded or downloaded or whatever it is that one does
onto the camera in two thousand.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
Anything's possible.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Okay, thank you.
Speaker 16 (30:05):
Any other questions from the jury, Thank you, sir.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
You may step down. I may call your next witness.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Brian good name O.
Speaker 8 (30:20):
Come we keep it right on the spot.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Yes, sir, mister dorg and you are still under subpoena.
Speaker 10 (30:27):
It's Brian b r y a n new Master any
you amy?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I have you saw me swell?
Speaker 15 (30:34):
The testimony you're about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing about the truth.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
So help you God, I do. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Please walk right around here. We have you.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Proceed, Thank you, good afternoon. Could you tell us your
name please?
Speaker 10 (30:49):
It's Brian Newmeister b r y a n any u
M I s T E R. I'm with us a
forensic and what is us a forensic?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
What do you do?
Speaker 18 (30:59):
We do date of the art audio and video enhancement
for trials and for military and.
Speaker 10 (31:04):
Other uses, holeng.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Have you been doing that.
Speaker 18 (31:07):
Type of work working professionally with audio and video for
thirty two years?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
And so what kind of experience do you have in
order to forensically do what you do now?
Speaker 18 (31:19):
I'm a certified forensic expert in military, federal, state, civil,
and Aviation courts. I work with the United States District
Courts as a contracted technical expert. I've worked with the
United States Grand Jury as a contracted technical expert.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Mister Moster, let me stop you right there. Are you
referring to something? Are you referring to something as you're
telling us?
Speaker 18 (31:44):
Yes, I'm just grabbing some highlights off the CV. It
makes it easier to remember.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Okay, can I get that marked?
Speaker 10 (31:50):
Just sure?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Okay, I'm sorry. Did you so you were telling us?
Speaker 10 (32:02):
Again?
Speaker 18 (32:03):
With the United States District Courts as a contracted technical expert,
United States Grand Jury contract contracted technical expert, US Department
of Justice contracted technical expert a member. And I say
I am or have been. And the reason I say that,
I never know if the dues are paid up this
early in the year. But the Audio Engineering Society, the
(32:24):
American College of Forensic Experts are actually the American College
of Forensic Examiners, the American College of Forensic Examiners International,
the American Board of Recorded Evidence. I work also with
the Department of Defense and contractors unclassified and unclassified forensic materials.
The Department of Energy, a number of state and local
(32:49):
law enforcement agencies. Actually, I'm working with all three agencies
involved in this case right now that on different cases.
I'm working with the prosecution on a number of other cases,
I'm working with your firm, also with the Public Defender's Office,
and also with I believe Mason Police is involved in
this too. I'm working for Mason Police. I'm currently working
(33:12):
on cases for the Phoenix Police Department and the Department
of Public Safety Special Investigations Unit. So my basic job
is to just sort off the facts so that you
have it to work with. I don't really take a side.
I just analyze data, and we have two labs and
we have very high end equipment, so we're very often
(33:34):
if law enforcement agencies can't do it or need it
done quickly, they come to us because we have where
they're operating servers, we're operating fiber optic Terra blocks, so
we have quite a bit more horsepower than most forensic
agencies do.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
So it sounds like you work on a lot of
different types of cases.
Speaker 18 (33:51):
Yeah, I've worked in inner four twenty three different countries
on different cases, and I do work a lot of homicides, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
And when you're talking about work, what type of work
are we talking about?
Speaker 10 (34:03):
Enhancing audio?
Speaker 18 (34:04):
For example, nine one one calls, people might want to
know what's called, what's the conversation in the background of
the call, what happened in the background. Can you clean
up the call? Surveillance video? Can you enhance what's on
the surveillance video? Can you recover any video that might
have been erased from a surveillance camera?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
That sort of thing, and is that what?
Speaker 6 (34:29):
So?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Is that basically your experience that you have in working
with the sound in audio, I'm sorry, sound and video.
Speaker 18 (34:36):
I have quite a few Emmy awards from the National
Associations of Television, Arts and Sciences, actually quite a slew
of them for your technical and audio video expertise.
Speaker 10 (34:46):
I've also on audio awards.
Speaker 18 (34:48):
The Gold for at the can Film Festival for Audio
as well as the Calgary Film Festival for Audio. I've
worked a lot in television.
Speaker 10 (34:57):
For I'll just.
Speaker 18 (35:00):
In the film industry for companies like NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, BBC, Fox, DreamWorks,
Screen Gyms, Films, Touchstone, Lucas Arts, Universal Studios, Laura Mare, Trimark, Ginnett.
Speaker 10 (35:21):
Quite a few all.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Right, and so is this what you've been doing for
the past thirty two years.
Speaker 18 (35:24):
Yes, that, and also we do quite a bit of
audio work for audio that's been damaged from television shows
that needs to be fixed.
Speaker 10 (35:33):
But for example, most of our work is legal.
Speaker 18 (35:38):
We've done over two hundred cases in the last thirty
six months, worked on evidence in over two hundred cases.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
And have you been certified as a forensic expert yes?
Speaker 18 (35:49):
In federal, state, civil and aviation and military corpse Yes.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Okay. Were you retained in this case?
Speaker 8 (35:59):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
And what were you asked to do?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
What did you do?
Speaker 10 (36:02):
I was retained.
Speaker 18 (36:05):
Back in September, I believe September fifteenth of twenty ten,
and I was asked to enhance an audio recording that
was made from a telephone where the person speaking on
the phone had recorded the audio and the person on
the other side could not be heard very well. So
I was asked to clear it up and clean it up.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Okay, can you walk us through the process of what
you do is sure to clean up audio?
Speaker 10 (36:30):
Sure? Is there a way we could activate that computer?
Speaker 8 (36:35):
Judge?
Speaker 2 (36:36):
There are the computers on there are some sonographs and
things that I think will help demonstrate what mister Newmeister,
does may I show.
Speaker 14 (36:47):
The approach.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
She was extended number four?
Speaker 10 (36:55):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
That's a DVD. Do you know what that complain that contains.
Speaker 18 (36:58):
Yes, it contains a number of screen grabs of the
protocol we use for this particular job.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Okay. And when you talk about protocols, what does that mean?
Speaker 18 (37:09):
We have to follow a certain set of standards to
make sure we can reproduce the work or another forensic
agency can reproduce the work. So we basically catalog as
we're going the steps we take, all right.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
And is that what's contained on the DVD of exhibit
for twenty nine?
Speaker 8 (37:26):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (37:28):
And did you create these?
Speaker 10 (37:29):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Judge, Defense moved into evidence exhibit for twenty nine. No
objection for twenty nine is ignited, all right, And that
is what's in exhibit for twenty nine. Is that currently
on your computer?
Speaker 6 (37:43):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Okay? And so for ease of process, Judge, if I
can rather than pop the DVD and use the computer,
you may.
Speaker 11 (37:51):
Okay?
Speaker 10 (37:51):
Okay.
Speaker 18 (37:52):
The first screen I received from your from ex mister
Ermey's office was a recording. There are actually seven recordings
from a telephone and I was asked to clean them
up before we can clean them up, we have to
figure out what frequencies we need to work with. So
(38:13):
if you look at the human voice, as goes from
about three hundred hertz to about four thousand hertz, speech
range from the lows to the highs, but there are
sibilants or transients like or those kind of words like
st that can go up to nine thousand herts. So
when we're going to enhance a bit of audio, we
(38:33):
need to first look at it physically on a graph
to figure out what frequencies we have to work with.
This particular audio recording was take an analog which means
out of an earphone jack into a digital recorder as
an MP three file at a bit rate of one
hundred and twenty eight kilobytes per second, which is not
(38:54):
a particularly good quality, but it's adequate for human voice.
So we determine here see a little yellow line called
the Niquist theorem, and that means that the sample rate
was fairly low.
Speaker 10 (39:06):
I'm going to be very generic on this. The sample
rates very.
Speaker 18 (39:09):
Low, which means the sibilance is going to be very
low on this particular recording.
Speaker 10 (39:15):
So you can go to the.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Next slide Okay.
Speaker 18 (39:18):
The next again looks at what's called a spectrograph, and
again you can see the top audio frequencies are topping
out around four thousand hurts and maybe a difficult to see.
What that means is a lot of the sibilants and
transient things that make speech very understandable are missing. So
(39:38):
we realize that we have to clean it up a
bit and enhance it. And what I learned from looking
at that recording is that the recording on the telephone
was made at about eight killer hertz, which was the
sample rate.
Speaker 10 (39:50):
And again this is just for the record.
Speaker 18 (39:52):
You may not understand it, or you can ask questions
and then be happy to answer it. But basically, in
plain English, it's not a very good recording. So my
job was to make it basically more intelligible.
Speaker 10 (40:05):
So let's go to the next slide.
Speaker 18 (40:08):
This real quickly, I'm just looking at how I'm going
to change the audio to better work with We changed
the file from a using a process called isotope. We
changed it from a wave empty three file into a
forty four point one twenty four bit wave file, and
(40:28):
you can you can see the noise kind of on
the top and on the bottom, and when you go
to the next slide, you can see that a lot
of that noise has gone away. Can you go back
to the previous slide just by the opposite arrow, look
on the top above the orange the noise it's up.
There's a little difficult to see on that graph. But
(40:48):
then go to the next one, and what I've done
is I've narrowed the voice frequency between three hundred hertz
and thirty four hundred hertz, and that's a pretty good
range to for the human voice.
Speaker 10 (41:01):
Next line.
Speaker 18 (41:04):
Since it was made from a cell phone, the audio
was taken into a product called DC eight Live Forensics,
where I eliminated some of the noises and background hum
and stuff that is associated with cell phones. So you know,
some of the noise you might get behind your cell phone,
some of the white noise or buzz that was eliminated
(41:25):
using that process.
Speaker 10 (41:27):
Next slide.
Speaker 8 (41:30):
Here.
Speaker 18 (41:30):
Because we were limited to some of the sibilance that
I talked about earlier, the s sounds and whatever, we
used a little bit of what's called a vocal enhancer
to bring up the kind of i'll simply say the
trouble so that it's easier to understand what people are saying,
next line. And finally, just before we finalize it, we
(41:53):
use a computer algorithm to remove the remaining background hiss
or noise that would be on a record and next night.
And finally, in order to bring up mister Alexander's voice
to that of miss Aria's voice, we use a program
called waves compression where we can set bring the voices
(42:14):
to be equal.
Speaker 10 (42:15):
Because very often, if it's a telephone.
Speaker 18 (42:17):
Recording, the person speaking is very loud and the person
on the on the other end it's very hard to hear.
Speaker 10 (42:24):
So in order to make it.
Speaker 18 (42:27):
So that you can hear it better, we normalize it
and make it so that the audio files or the
voice tracks are an equal decibel levels.
Speaker 10 (42:38):
That's all I needed right there.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Okay, Ultimately, did you when you finished enhancing this audio,
did you put it onto a DVD?
Speaker 8 (42:48):
Yes?
Speaker 18 (42:48):
I didn't show that because what I did is I
added a time code, now a time goods for the jury.
What it is is, when you're listening to audio, it's
kind of booming here. You don't get the best accoup sticks.
So there's a running number on the screen that you
can refer to in your notes, Like I say, I
wonder what he said there, and you write it down
(43:09):
and later, if you ask, I can go back and
replay that that piece of audio because there's a time
marker that you'll be able to see playing.
Speaker 10 (43:18):
It's called a timecode.
Speaker 18 (43:19):
And I don't believe that's been entered in yet, so
I didn't bring a slide for that. But that was
the final process, was to take the audio and put
a timecode on it so that the jury could if
they had questions, identify parts of the audio they had questions.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
With, all right, And so a timecode is just something
you added just timing the call. I'm timing the audio, correct.
Speaker 18 (43:39):
It's it's a running it's a running linear number, and
it's basically for the jury's reference.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
All right.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
And was there any identifying information on this audio?
Speaker 10 (43:49):
Pardon?
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Was there any identifying information on this audio?
Speaker 10 (43:51):
You'd be a little bit more specific.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
How many people are talking too?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
And does one person ever refer.
Speaker 10 (43:59):
To the Yes, the male refers to a self.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
As sustained, we approached.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Objection over world to make continue, all right, and when
you finished, well, let me let me go back to
that question. Does the male eb we refer to the
female by name, Yes, what does he call her?
Speaker 10 (44:24):
He refers three times using the name Jody.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Okay, and does the female ever refer to the male
by name?
Speaker 10 (44:30):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (44:30):
And what does she call him?
Speaker 18 (44:32):
She refers to the name Travis twice on the tape,
and he refers to himself as mister Alexander.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
When you finished your enhancing enhancement of the audio did
you get did you give it back to mister Narmia
and myself?
Speaker 6 (44:48):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (44:48):
How did you give it to us?
Speaker 8 (44:50):
Bye?
Speaker 10 (44:51):
I put it on DVD with time code?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Okay, Judge Mayo code.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
I'm sure you list the mar Exhibit number four eight.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
That had the audio captured on it.
Speaker 18 (45:07):
There was actually on Thursday. I just want to clarify.
Thursday I did bring in a DVD that had seven
clips on it, and it was agreed by all parties
to redect two clips. So this is a modified DVD
that has five of the seven original clips that I received.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Okay? And is that is Exhibit four twenty eight, the
one that has five clips on it?
Speaker 10 (45:29):
If this is the one I brought in today, correctly, Yes,
it does.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Thank you nothing for thank you made but the extra
two clips those have nothing to do with this case.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Is that correct?
Speaker 18 (45:47):
I believe both council said they didn't have anything to
do with this case and that it should be stricken.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
So there was no reason for you to do it
to have it on the DVD.
Speaker 6 (45:58):
That's correct.
Speaker 10 (45:58):
Okay, it did not affect it. Uh, it was not
part of this case.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
Pross examination.
Speaker 8 (46:06):
In regard to this particular DVD you keep referring account.
Speaker 9 (46:09):
It's true that the parties, including say, agreed that the
two individuals on there were Travis Alexander and Jody Area.
Speaker 8 (46:15):
Is correct. Correct, And with regard.
Speaker 9 (46:17):
To your examination, your examination was restricted to mister Travis
Alexander's voice. Uh, comparing that to a non sample?
Speaker 8 (46:25):
Right?
Speaker 9 (46:28):
Did you compare mister Alexander's voice on that DVD to
his known sent.
Speaker 13 (46:36):
Over world.
Speaker 10 (46:38):
Early on?
Speaker 8 (46:39):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (46:39):
Or no?
Speaker 8 (46:40):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (46:40):
Early on.
Speaker 9 (46:41):
With regard to the defendant, you didn't make that same
type of comparison, though, did you.
Speaker 10 (46:47):
That's correct.
Speaker 8 (46:48):
I don't have anything else.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
Redirect questions any questions from the jury for this witness.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
I see no hands.
Speaker 10 (47:00):
Thank you, may step down, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
You may, Ladies and gentlemen. I'm going to ask that
you go back to the jury room for approximately three
minutes and then return.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Please remember the admonition, please be seated.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
The record will show the jury has left the courtroom.
Miss Wilmont, the images on the screen.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I'm serious. You may come forward and
take a seat.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
You can.
Speaker 13 (48:00):
I'm the jury, up, mine, up, the jury.
Speaker 4 (48:07):
Please be seated.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
The record will show the presence of the jury, the defendant,
and all counsel.
Speaker 14 (48:13):
Mister Jeremy, I believe that serious needs to be sworn
calling your client, yes, the defense caused Jody arias serious.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Please stand to be sworn right now, you.
Speaker 15 (48:24):
Selves where the testimony you're about to give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing about the truth.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
To help you out, Please be seated. May proceeed.
Speaker 8 (48:34):
Thank you? Hi, Jody, Hi, how are you feeling right now?
I want to ask you, well, let me ask you
this is this a position you ever thought you would
find yourself in testifying her today?
Speaker 11 (48:54):
Approach?
Speaker 8 (48:54):
Please let me ask you a couple of important questions
before we get back and start talking about who you
are and why you're here. Okay, did you kill Travis
Alexander on June fourth, two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 8 (49:19):
Why The simile answer is.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
That he attacked me, and.
Speaker 8 (49:28):
It was also brought up during this these proceedings that
you gave an interview with inside addition, do you remember
seeing that tape?
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (49:38):
I do, And in that tape you said that no
jury would convict you something to that effect. You remember
seeing that, remember saying that.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Why I made that statement in September two thousand and eight,
I believe it was. And at the time I had
plans to commit suicide. So I was extremely confident that
no jury would convict me because I didn't expect any
of you to be here. I didn't expect to be here,
(50:11):
so I could have easily said no. Juri would have
quit me either. I couldn't say that, though, because there
was an officer sitting five feet behind me, and had
I told them the reason no jury would convict me
at that time, I would have been thrown into a
padded cell and stripped down, and that would have been
my life for a while until I'd stabilized. So I
(50:33):
was very confident that no jury would convict me because
I planned to be dead. Probably the most bitter words I'll.
Speaker 8 (50:40):
Ever eat, I'm sorry, What was that.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
I said, those are probably the most bitter words I'll ever.
Speaker 8 (50:45):
Eat, miss Aious. I want to clarify another thing as well.
Speaker 9 (50:53):
And we're talking.
Speaker 8 (50:54):
Your name has been pronounced and most of this trial areas.
Is there another way of pronouncing any of you? I
always pronounced it arius.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
I've heard it pronounced about seven different ways. I say arias,
as does the rest of my family.
Speaker 8 (51:06):
Okay, Well, let's back up a little bit and then
talk about your family. Who is in your immediate family?
Speaker 1 (51:15):
My immediate family consists of I'm the oldest of my parents.
They also have had another son about two years after
I was born, my brother, and then I have another
younger sister and another younger brother.
Speaker 16 (51:35):
I also have an.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Older sister from a previous marriage of my father's.
Speaker 8 (51:40):
Okay, so let me see if I Well, first of all,
what are the names.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Of your parents, uh, Bill and Sandy Arias okay?
Speaker 8 (51:49):
And are they still married at this time?
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Yes? About thirty three years okay.
Speaker 8 (51:55):
And you said you were the oldest child of Bill,
and say correct. And you have a half sister that
is older than you, is that right?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yes, she's five years older than me.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (52:12):
And that is your father's.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
Daughter yes, from a previous marriage.
Speaker 8 (52:16):
Okay. And you have a brother that's two years younger
than you, right, yes, okay? And what is his name?
Speaker 1 (52:25):
His name is Karl.
Speaker 8 (52:28):
And you mentioned a I believe the next youngest would
have been another sister.
Speaker 16 (52:34):
What was you Angela?
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Kay?
Speaker 8 (52:37):
And your youngest brother, who is he?
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Joseph?
Speaker 7 (52:41):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (52:43):
And just so we get a bit of separation, how
much younger than you is Angela?
Speaker 16 (52:47):
Angela was born when I was eleven, and Joseph.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Was born when I was thirteen.
Speaker 8 (52:51):
And what year were you born?
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Nineteen eighty?
Speaker 8 (52:57):
Do you remember where you grew up?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Yeah, I grew up in a few different cities. I
was born in Salinas, California, and I lived there until
I was almost twelve.
Speaker 8 (53:08):
And what was life like in Salina's.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
For the first years of my life? It was really good.
Speaker 8 (53:17):
When you said that's before you continue, let's clarify. What
do you mean by first years?
Speaker 1 (53:23):
I would say until about age seven, it was a
fairly ideal childhood.
Speaker 8 (53:28):
Okay, what do you Different people have different meanings when
they say ideal, So why don't you describe for us
what you mean by.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
Idea of childhood? I have predominantly positive memories of my
childhood At that time, my brother and I lived in
When I was about four years old, we moved to
a house in a cul de sac. We had the
center lot, so it was a huge backyard and we
had a lot of places to play there.
Speaker 16 (53:56):
There were trees to climb.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
There were other kids in the neighborhood and in the
cul de sac that we played with. We were close
in age, so we were My family traveled a lot.
We went camping, We went to all the theme parks
in California.
Speaker 8 (54:13):
Did you go to school?
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Of course, yes, I went to school.
Speaker 8 (54:17):
And you went to grade school in Salinas.
Speaker 17 (54:20):
Then yes, I went to a private school for about
three years.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
And then in public school.
Speaker 8 (54:28):
Were you in carl And school together? Did you go
to different schools?
Speaker 1 (54:31):
We were in school together. I was held back in kindergarten,
so even though we're two years apart, he was only one.
Speaker 16 (54:36):
Grade behind me.
Speaker 8 (54:39):
And tell us about your parents at that time to
your recollection, were they both working? Was your mom at home?
Tell us about that?
Speaker 1 (54:46):
Yeah, when I was younger, I remember my mom used
to work. I guess she was working as a server
with my dad. He owned restaurants. My whole life, and
then when I was around eleven or twelve, she.
Speaker 16 (54:58):
Became a dental assistant.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (55:01):
Okay, and you mentioned your life was, well, let me
ask you a question. Do you remember what your interests
were as a child.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Yes, I had pets, cats, dog fish, I had a rat.
Speaker 16 (55:17):
I I loved animals.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
We had a lot of pets. My brother had frogs,
things like that. We played a lot of Popscotch and
two square. When we were younger, we went roller skating.
They didn't really have rollerblades yet, or at least that
we used. We rode bikes a lot. We did a
(55:41):
lot of camping. I'm sorry, I kind of forgot the question.
Speaker 8 (55:49):
Well, you're speaking very quietly. Are you nervous today?
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Yeah, yes I am.
Speaker 8 (55:53):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (55:54):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (55:55):
Okay, very nervous. Did you do me a favor? And
pulled the mic a little closer to you, Jody. One
of the things that you said, uh uh a couple
questions ago when we were speaking is that your life
was pretty ideal up until about age seven. It was
(56:16):
something different after age seven, or.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
It seemed like, well my parents would just you know,
spank us or hit us as disciplines. It seemed like
at age seven, around then it started getting a little
bit more intense. That's something I remember.
Speaker 8 (56:34):
You said they started spanking here.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
Well, I was spanked before on occasion, just it seemed
like the frequency and the intensity of it increased around
that age.
Speaker 8 (56:44):
What do you mean by that frequency and intensity?
Speaker 1 (56:49):
Well, just there were I think that's the first year
my dad started using a belt. My mom began to
carry oh and spoon in her purse.
Speaker 6 (57:01):
Did you.
Speaker 8 (57:03):
Sustand maybe we approached.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
To I don't know. She went to school with or
knew another woman about her age who had a daughter
of my age that was going in a freshman going
into high school as well, So we hung out a
little bit during the summer, so I knew her and
her sister.
Speaker 6 (57:21):
But that was it just took a couple of people.
Speaker 8 (57:24):
Yes, Now you mentioned when you moved to Based on
what you told us before, we correct and understanding that
the beatings, the pushing and the furniture, that sort of
thing with your dad continued throughout your high school years. Yes,
(57:46):
were those the incidents you were talking about before about
being pushed into the post and the furniture or were
there other.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
Incidents that happened when I was in high school. There
were a few things that happened right before we moved.
A bunch of friends and I one night decided, like
the last night I was there, WEC I had to
sneak out of the house and hang out, and my
parents woke up and found out. So when I came back,
my dad asked for I had been and I was I.
(58:15):
I had fallen asleep. He woke me up around six
and so when I s I sat up and I
was disoriented cause I had been sleeping.
Speaker 16 (58:22):
So I didn't give him a satisfactory answer.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
So he hit me across the face and then I
fell back down, and then he sat me back up
and asked me again, and I didn't give him a
satisfactory answer, so he hit me across the face again
and I fell down.
Speaker 8 (58:36):
And you say, hit you across the faith? Did he hunch?
Speaker 6 (58:38):
You know? No?
Speaker 16 (58:39):
It was an open handed, hard slab.
Speaker 8 (58:42):
Mkay, you recall did you believe?
Speaker 6 (58:46):
No?
Speaker 1 (58:47):
I didn't, not that I recall.
Speaker 8 (58:48):
Did you bruise, Not that I recall. Did it hurt?
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (58:56):
Just so we can and clarify as well. Your dad's
a pretty big guy, right, He was very.
Speaker 16 (59:01):
Big at that time. His health is he's frail now,
but he was very big at the time.
Speaker 8 (59:07):
Can you do you can you give us an idea
how about tall and how much he weighed at that time.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
I don't know his weight, but he's about five eleven.
He used to bench press five hundred and twenty pounds.
He he was a really big guy for a while.
Speaker 8 (59:24):
You said he used to bench press five hundred something
pounds five twenty Yes, was was that a hobby of
his weightlifting or can you describe that for us?
Speaker 1 (59:33):
Yes, he was very much into weightlifting. He had I
guess it was like a bowflex machine at home. I
think it was called solo flex. It was one from
like the eighties. But he would use that a lot
to work out. He was in the martial arts. We
watched a lot of movies like that, you know, things
(59:54):
like that. He went to the gym frequently.
Speaker 8 (59:59):
Was your tea your knowledge? Was your mom aware? I
know you mentioned the one incident where your mom was present.
Was your mom aware of your dad beating you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Well when she was present? Yes, of course.
Speaker 16 (01:00:14):
Sometimes we were on road.
Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Trips together and they would take turns if they you know,
had to pull the car over or something not that
it happened several times in one trip, but I remember
it being both my mommy and my dad punishing me
in the presence of each other.
Speaker 16 (01:00:27):
And I don't know when she was gone. I assume
they would talk about it.
Speaker 8 (01:00:33):
Okay, we talked a little bit about your dad during
high school and the mom with the wooden spoon in
your younger years. Did your mom's beatings with the wooden spoon?
Did they continue in high school as well?
Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
They continue for a short time, but I think as
I turned sixteen seventeen, she didn't. I don't recall her
carrying the wooden spoon around. She would just start grabbing
whatever was available, like a hair brush, or she had
acrylic nail so sometimes she would grab me and dig
her nails into my skin, things like that.
Speaker 19 (01:01:04):
Okay, in high school, Uh, what were some of your
interests in high school?
Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
I was very interested in learning Spanish, so I took
that all throughout high school. In middle school, I was
getting into art. I was excited to get my driver's license.
I traveled abroad to Costa Rica to learn Spanish better.
(01:01:40):
I had a few friends I didn't get I didn't
really make a lot of close friends like I had before.
Speaker 16 (01:01:46):
It just seemed like I was constantly.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Making friends and I we were moving away.
Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
So at any end school she was high her interests
or substed.
Speaker 8 (01:01:56):
Do you have a lot of friends in high school?
Speaker 16 (01:01:58):
I had a lot of I had a a large
circle of friends, but nobody I.
Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Was very close with.
Speaker 8 (01:02:04):
Would I be correct in assuming that you're interest in
art by the time you're in high school moved beyond
the uh prayale of crayon face?
Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Yeah, very much. So tell us about that my grandma.
I was at my grandmother's house one day and she
had an old set of oil paint, and I knew
what oil paint was. I'd never worked in that medium before,
so I didn't know what I was doing. I just
took a piece of printer paper and started painting oil
paint on his paper, and it began to oil, began
to spread around the paint. So I figured, Okay, that's
(01:02:36):
not gonna work. So I went to Michael's, the arts
and craft store, and bought some supplies and began to
experiment with that and started painting.
Speaker 8 (01:02:46):
And did you work during high school?
Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
I did. My dad owned a restaurant at the north
end of town. It's now a Mexican restaurant, but he
owned it then and I would work as a server
there from the time I was a freshman on through
I think nineteen six or seven when you closed it.
Speaker 8 (01:03:10):
HM, so you started working in ninth grade. How old
were you in ninth grade?
Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
In ninth grade, I was fifteen?
Speaker 8 (01:03:19):
And how many was there? A certain amount of days
you worked while you were in high school?
Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
He put me on a few afternoons and the weekend.
Speaker 8 (01:03:33):
Did you graduate high school?
Speaker 6 (01:03:35):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
I didn't.
Speaker 8 (01:03:36):
Why didn't you graduate high school.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
At the time?
Speaker 16 (01:03:40):
I about three month? Well it's kind of complicated.
Speaker 8 (01:03:47):
Well, let's let's talk about it. Did you drop out
of high school?
Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Yes? I did.
Speaker 8 (01:03:59):
Where were you living at the time you dropped out
of high school?
Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
I was living with my boyfriend at the time, about
six mile it's little town six miles outside of way Rica.
Speaker 8 (01:04:14):
Let's break fit. Why did you leave Prior to that,
were you living with your parents?
Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (01:04:22):
Okay, Why did you leave your parents' home to.
Speaker 6 (01:04:27):
Go live with your boyfriend?
Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
I was kind of becoming tired of the discipline, and
I was three months until I was eighteen, and one
day they decided to ground me until I was eighteen
because I was I skipped one period in high school
because there was a final for my I was taking
(01:04:52):
a college history class US History, and I wasn't I
didn't feel like i'd adequately studied for the exam, so
I skipped that period to study for the exam and
decided I would make it up the next day. So
I parked my car in the parking lot of Rite
Aid and just cracked open the book and I was
studying it for that hour. And my dad somehow he
(01:05:13):
found me as a small town so I guess the
school notified him that I wasn't present for that class,
so he found me, and.
Speaker 16 (01:05:22):
At that point they didn't use physical discipline that day.
Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
But I was grounded till I was eighteen, so I
couldn't have them being grounded for three months. When when
you were grounded in my house, it meant no phone,
no TV, no friends, no no social functions of any kind.
You're in You're in your room. Period.
Speaker 8 (01:05:40):
So so well, let me ask you this. This would
have been towards the end of your senior year in
high school or was this in the end, Yeah, it
was in May.
Speaker 6 (01:05:51):
I think Okay, so of your.
Speaker 8 (01:05:54):
Senior year or if your junia April my junior year. Yes,
so you you dropped out of high school at before
you finished your junior year, Is that right?
Speaker 6 (01:06:08):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
I did finish the junior year mostly with d's and
f's because toward the end of the year, I just
let it all fall apart.
Speaker 8 (01:06:18):
You mentioned discipline. You talked about grounding.
Speaker 7 (01:06:22):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (01:06:23):
Was there a any particular physical incident or an incident
of the use it motivated you to leave your parents home?
Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
One of the yes.
Speaker 16 (01:06:32):
One of the the incident is incident I described where
I was knocked against.
Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
I called it a door post. I guess it's a
door frame. Then at that point I was the guy
I was dating. We started talking about me possibly moving
in with him. So after that incident, I began to
surreptitiously packed boxes of my things and start moving him
out to his house. And then when it came when
(01:06:59):
they finally when they ground me until I was eighteen,
all of my stuff mostly was there, and I thought,
I'm just gonna go ahead. I was gonna wait until
I was eighteen to move in with him, but it
was three months away and it just made sense to
me at the time as a seventeen year old, So
I just moved out.
Speaker 8 (01:07:14):
Okay, after your junior year, then did you just not
go back to school?
Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Is that? Yeah? I turned eighteen that summer. I got
a job at another restaurant and began working there full time.
I had builds, debay now, car insurance and credit cards
and that kind of thing, so it just to me
it made more sense to work so I could support
myself and my boyfriend. He didn't have a job.
Speaker 8 (01:07:40):
And what was your boyfriend's His name was Bobby. What
was his last name?
Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Warres?
Speaker 8 (01:07:49):
And mister Warres? Uh, how old was he in relations
to you?
Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
He was three years older than me.
Speaker 8 (01:07:59):
Uh, so he would have been out of school. I
would assume, yes, he was out of high school. And
what did he do for a living.
Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
He had never been employed at that point, so you
know he kind he l It was an isolated town
we lived in and it was difficult to pain employment.
Speaker 8 (01:08:19):
Okay, Well, let me ask you this as it relates
to mister Wares. When did you meet him?
Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
I first met him the first summer that I moved
to Arica, when I was fifteen. The uh carnival comes
to town? And so I was there with the girl
i'd mentioned that my mom introduced me to her and
her sister. We were there and I saw him walking
in a crowd with a few other friends, and he
(01:08:49):
caught my eye. Was very intriguing looking. He was kind
of dressed like s eighteenth century.
Speaker 8 (01:08:54):
Golf kind of he was k can you describe for
some of us who may not uh follow that reference?
Just he described what he was wearing.
Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Yeah, it was like July or August when I met him,
and it's in the maybe triple digits in the temperature.
It's very hot. Why Rika gets really hot, not quite
like the desert, but in the triple digits in the summer.
But this guy was dressed in a black suit and
a high collar white shirt, and uh, he was on crutches.
(01:09:28):
He had long, dark curly hair, and he just seemed
intriguing to me. So I remember seeing him walk by,
and I didn't approach him or anything, but I d
I noticed him. So we spent the day there, my
friends and I walking around, and at one point we
were getting They were getting in line for the zipper.
I didn't wanna get on the zipper. There was only
(01:09:51):
two per cage anyway, So I was kind of the
third odd one out, So I just stood next to
the line waiting for them to go on the zipper
and come back. But I was just looking around and
I caught his eye again and he was looking right
at me, and he motioned for me to come over.
He went like that, and I didn't know if he
(01:10:12):
was talking to me, so I kind of looked around
and looked at him again, and he did it again.
So I walked up to him, and he said, in
a very kind way, said you wanna go to your
safe Oh? Sorry, sustained.
Speaker 7 (01:10:25):
Men.
Speaker 8 (01:10:25):
I said this about telling you what he said, and
just to clarify a bit based on what he told us,
he would have been around the age of eighteen at
this time, right, yes, okay, and you were fifteen. You
meet him at a state affair, yes, thank, okay. Tell
(01:10:48):
us then, do you begin a relationship at that point
in time or or just kind of describe for us
how that relationship was at that time.
Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
No.
Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
He invited me to go on the zipper with him,
So we went on one ride with that and UH
talked a little bit as we were whipping around, and
after that we parted and I didn't.
Speaker 16 (01:11:10):
See him again for a while.
Speaker 8 (01:11:13):
Okay, when did you see him again?
Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
I think it was October maybe November of that same year.
I was at a homecoming football game from my high
school and I saw him again, and he was with
some friends and I was really shy, but I wanted
to say hi to him, so I walked up to
him and said, do you remember me? And he said
hein't remembered me, but he couldn't remember my name. So
(01:11:40):
I told him I didn't remember his name either, so
we kind of reintroduced ourselves and he said, tell me
your phone number, and I promise I'll remember it. So
I gave him the house phone, which was my parent's phone.
We didn't have cell phones, and he remembered it and
called me.
Speaker 8 (01:11:56):
Uh, did you begin dating at that time?
Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
No, we were just friends. We talked for a while,
we weren't dating. Okay, he was actually seeing a girl
I think I don't remember.
Speaker 8 (01:12:07):
Okay, Uh, so you were just friends for a period
of time.
Speaker 16 (01:12:11):
Yeah, several months.
Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
We were just friends.
Speaker 8 (01:12:15):
And but uh, we were telling us he became your
boyfriend at that point. So I'm assuming there at some
point in time, uh, that you two began dat.
Speaker 16 (01:12:22):
Yeah, the girl broke up with him, and.
Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
There was a period of time where he was single
and I was single, and we started just talking more
and more. And then I think it was on New
Year's that followed that year, when I was a freshman,
we decided to become a boyfriend girlfriend Okay.
Speaker 8 (01:12:43):
And then you say, y, you said that was your
s sophomore the beginning of your sophomore year.
Speaker 16 (01:12:49):
I would have still been a freshman then.
Speaker 8 (01:12:50):
Okay, And you said you were gonna become boyfriend and girlfriend. Yes, yeah, okay,
you guys decided that. Was he still in high school
at that time?
Speaker 16 (01:13:00):
No, he was out of high school.
Speaker 8 (01:13:03):
And to your recollection, was he working at that one
in time?
Speaker 16 (01:13:06):
No, he wasn't working.
Speaker 8 (01:13:07):
Okay, describe for us than what.
Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Uh?
Speaker 8 (01:13:14):
Being boyfriend and girlfriend at that stage in your life
met for you.
Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
And mister wares for us. We I didn't have a car.
I didn't have a driver's license yet. I think I
was getting my permit that year. So he would come
to town and so during lunch, a lot of kids
would leave campus and there's a small gas station USA
gas station near the high school. So I would walk
down there and he would be there. There was an
(01:13:40):
arcade there and he really liked video games, so we
would meet there and just hang out, hold hands, that
kind of thing.
Speaker 8 (01:13:49):
How long at this point in time, Uh, how long
did you did?
Speaker 6 (01:13:55):
Well?
Speaker 8 (01:13:55):
Did you date Bobby continuously from the time that you
were fifteen till you moved out of the hall?
Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
No, we stayed together for a while, and I think
at age fifteen, I felt like the relationship was getting
very intense. He was talking about being together forever, and
you know, I I loved him, but I didn't feel
like I was in love with him. And I knew
at age fifteen there's no way I could decide who
I wanted to spend the rest of my life with
at that point. So he wanted to move to San Francisco,
(01:14:24):
and he had all kinds of wild ideas, which were
they seemed.
Speaker 16 (01:14:29):
Fun, but they were just not where I was. So
at that point I groke.
Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Up with him.
Speaker 8 (01:14:35):
What do you mean wild ideas?
Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Well?
Speaker 16 (01:14:40):
He entertained the belief in vampires, and.
Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
He thought, well, let's go to San Francisco and see
if we can find some real vampires. And you know,
I used to read Anne Riich's novels. At the time,
it seemed like it didn't seem realistic to me, but
it seemed like it was just an idea that I
would go along with, you know, with him.
Speaker 8 (01:15:01):
And this was at a time when you were about
fifteen years of age. She wanted to move to San
Francisco and hunt Vampa.
Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
Yes, right, so, yeah, we could live together forever and
be together for.
Speaker 8 (01:15:12):
Was there a certain point in time then when this
was going on and you said it was getting too
intense for you? Uh, did you and mister Wares break up?
Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Yes? It was one afternoon. I broke up with him
on the phone. I don't know where my parents were,
but my my aunt Lisa was at the house. She
was picking my brother and I up. I was having
this conversation with him. He was very upset and she,
Lisa wanted us to leave. She I mean, she wanted
(01:15:41):
to take us. We had to go somewhere with her.
Speaker 16 (01:15:43):
So I didn't have time to stay on the phone
with him for a long time and.
Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Talk through it with him. So I had to sort
of abruptly in the phone call shortly thereafter, and it was.
Speaker 16 (01:15:53):
I don't know, I guess he.
Speaker 8 (01:15:55):
Didn't take that well, okay, what do you mean by
you guess he didn't take it?
Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Though?
Speaker 7 (01:16:00):
Well?
Speaker 16 (01:16:01):
I found out a few years later that he.
Speaker 8 (01:16:06):
Appro overrolled to make continue story, I was described. We
were asking. You said you understood, uh that mister Wares
didn't take the break up you had UH when we
were about fifteen, So well, describe for us what you
mean by that.
Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
I learned a few years later that he slit both
of his wrists and tried to kill himself, and he
was committed to some kind of psychiatric ward in Citrus Heights,
it's north of Sacramento.
Speaker 8 (01:16:40):
Mmkay, did you have after this phone call where you
broke up and and you left the home, did you
have any sort of relationship with him? I? In between
that and the and the I I, Well, let me
ask you this way. It sounds like he was your
(01:17:01):
boyfriend again about the time when you turned eighteen, right
a few months before. Okay, how did that come about?
Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
We didn't talk at that point for a few years.
It's kind of silly. There was this.
Speaker 16 (01:17:17):
Older man that used to come into my parents' restaurant.
Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
I'd say he was in his sixties, maybe seventies, and
he always had his Bible and he it was a
small pocket version of the New Testament, and he had
it all marked up, and he was always, you know,
quoting Bible scripture and things. And he had done the
math in the Bible and determined that he knew when
(01:17:43):
the Second Coming was going to occur, and he said
it was going to occur September twenty third, nineteen ninety seven.
So I was really naive and I kind of believed him.
So he would come in weekly or several times a
week on my shift and continue to read it that So,
I mean, at the time, I was a non denominational
Christian and this seemed important. So I thought that Bobby
(01:18:09):
should know about it because at the time he wasn't
religious and he was uncertain about his spirituality that at least.
Speaker 16 (01:18:16):
When I last had known him.
Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
So to me, it was important that he at least
hear that information so he could make a decision for himself.
So I made contact with him again and called him.
Speaker 8 (01:18:29):
S junior year or I was just starting my junior year, Okay,
And subsequent to this phone call, did you begin to
mean a friendship with mister Rris? Tell us about how
that evolved.
Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
Well, when I first called he I asked. He answered
the phone. I could recognize his voice, and I said,
is Bobby there? And he said, yeah, Who's this? I said, Jody,
And I immediately heard a clique. So I left alone.
And I thought, okay, cause our last phone calls some
years back didn't end well.
Speaker 16 (01:19:04):
And so the next night I tried one more time
and the same thing happened. So I left it alone
and about Well, let.
Speaker 8 (01:19:12):
Me ask you this before we before we continue. You
mentioned that, uh, Waireka was a pretty small town, right, Yes, okay,
you never ran and mister Rres in between these two
phone calls.
Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
No, he didn't live in Wyrika. He lived in Montague,
which is six miles from way Rica. It's even smaller.
I think there's about one thousand people.
Speaker 16 (01:19:34):
In that town.
Speaker 8 (01:19:35):
Okay, but never did this time? Did you run into
him at all?
Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
No?
Speaker 8 (01:19:39):
Okay, And I'm sorry you had talked about you had
called him a couple of times, uh and he had
a clique on the other of the end of the phone.
How does the relationship progress from that point?
Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
I don't know how many days later it was under
a week, maybe four days, maybe five days. I was
on the phone with a friend of mine, and we
were talking and I heard the A call waiting beat,
so I clicked over and I heard someone says Jody
there and I I recognized his voice, so I clicked
back over and said, I have to call you back.
So I clicked back over and we started talking again.
Speaker 8 (01:20:13):
M Uh, did you after that conversation? Did you become
friends again? Did you start dating again?
Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Just describe that for Yeah, I was. I felt kind
of silly explaining to him why I was calling him,
especially knowing that he his religious beliefs at that time
were not really defined, and I kind of expected him
to laugh at me. But it was important to me,
(01:20:41):
so I told him the reason I was calling and.
Speaker 13 (01:20:49):
A over roll to make continue.
Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
He expressed appreciation for that, which surprised me. We just
sort of picked up from there and began talking again.
Speaker 8 (01:21:02):
Just talk you mean daty No, not yet.
Speaker 3 (01:21:06):
Recess Ladies and gentlemen, please be back in the designated
area at three twenty.
Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
Please remember the admonition.
Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
You are excused all rise with the jury.
Speaker 4 (01:21:32):
Please be seated. Serious, please take the.
Speaker 8 (01:21:46):
Stand, And just regarding the conversation you had in the chamber,
you could say none known to about I would appoint
the UH work to UH stay team Machado two to
six Arizona two the one the most frasent case I
(01:22:12):
could find dealing with UH A state, the state asserting
UH for OOR free.
Speaker 10 (01:22:20):
M you a stray quickly?
Speaker 6 (01:22:22):
You made.
Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Good?
Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Let me job?
Speaker 4 (01:22:38):
Does that SERI?
Speaker 3 (01:22:39):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
As long as the DC.
Speaker 8 (01:22:40):
Beginning it serious. Before we took a break, I believe
we were talking about the point in time in your
life when you got back together with Barby Wards. Yes,
and from what I understood earlier, you were about seventeen
years of age when that took place, get right, Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
And.
Speaker 8 (01:23:06):
You were talking about how you UH he had called
you responded to your initial phone contact. Tell us how
the relationship progressed from him making telephone contact with you.
Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
Well, at the time, at the time I had a boyfriend.
He lived in another country, so we corresponded. So it
wasn't a romantic reason like I I had said. I
reached out to him for a spiritual reason. I don't
know if he was seeing anybody at that time. I
don't think he was. He used to call a party
(01:23:43):
line a lot and meet people on that.
Speaker 16 (01:23:45):
I guess this was before the internet was really, you
know in every single home.
Speaker 8 (01:23:49):
Let me let me uh, let me interrupt you a
little bit. There are uh uh and a couple of
different things. You said, Uh, he made contact on a
party line?
Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
What is that?
Speaker 8 (01:24:00):
Can you describe that for us?
Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
From my understanding, I didn't talk on it. But from
my understanding, it was a nine hundred number that you
could call. And it's like a chat room, but it's
on the telephone instead of on the computer.
Speaker 8 (01:24:16):
And you chatted to Bobby that way or I didn't.
Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
He chatted with other people that way.
Speaker 8 (01:24:21):
And you also mentioned that I want to be too
far from it. You mentioned that when he made this
contact with you, after the contact he made for it
to describe as spiritual reasons. You said that you had
a boyfriend in another country, right, yes, okay? And what
was that boyfriend's name, Victor? Did Victor have a.
Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Last name Arius?
Speaker 8 (01:24:43):
Ironically, I'm sorry what his last name was?
Speaker 10 (01:24:46):
Also?
Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
Arius?
Speaker 6 (01:24:47):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (01:24:49):
And where did you meet Victor?
Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
Arias the summer that I turned seventeen, Right before I
turned seventeen, in July, I flew to Costa Rica on
an exchange program and I spent three weeks there with
a family. Their name was also Arius, and they had
two sons and two daughters in that family, and the
(01:25:14):
oldest son was just a little older than me, and
so we kind of clicked and got to know each
other and.
Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
Sort of.
Speaker 16 (01:25:24):
Had a little romance, kind of blossom thing.
Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
I don't know, it's like my first experience of like
the warm, fuzzy somebody that I really felt that I
cared for, Okay, and.
Speaker 8 (01:25:35):
That relationship lasted a few weeks or tell me how
it lasted beyond he was being there.
Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
It sort of began to develop while I was in
Costa Rica, and I flew back toward the end of
I had my seventeenth birthday there in that country, and
then I flew back at the near the end of July,
and we corresponded and talked occasionally on the phone through August,
and then he flew to the United States that September
(01:26:05):
and stayed in Reading, which is a city about one
hundred miles south of Way Rica. He had some people
that he knew there. He stayed there about a week,
I think, and then stayed at my house for two
weeks before flying back.
Speaker 8 (01:26:22):
And when would when did each come stay for you
for two weeks?
Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
When was that. That was early September nineteen ninety seven,
So this is about the time then that you were.
Speaker 8 (01:26:35):
Close to the time that you were going to We
were in contact with mister.
Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
Waris as well, right, yes, it was. It was bef
just right before that.
Speaker 8 (01:26:44):
Okay, and you considered mister Arius to be a boyfriend.
Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
Actually he had given me a ring, and it was
kind of a promise ring, like we were going to
get married, but we weren't officially engaged, so we would
talk about children and marriage, and he wanted me to
come live down there and start a family.
Speaker 8 (01:27:03):
Okay, he said, ye, So your first experience of well,
I guess what we'd.
Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
Call young love, right, Yeah, it was Okay, I wouldn't
say totally in love, but it was my first taste
of being like just feeling like warm about somebody.
Speaker 16 (01:27:19):
If that makes sense.
Speaker 8 (01:27:22):
As it relates to your situation. Then, uh, mister mister
Arius Victor he goes back to Costa Rica, I was there, right, yes, okay,
and then the relationship becomes one probably was Is it
primarily of letters phone calls? Just describe that for.
Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
Yeah, we wrote a lot. The postman actually got to
know my name and face. And he would tease me
every time I went to the post office ticket it
stamped to send to Costa Rica, and I would receive
letters from.
Speaker 16 (01:27:56):
Him that were really romantic.
Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
And the Spanish language is very roman, so he wouldn't
write things like that very romantic.
Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (01:28:04):
And relative to your age, how old was was Victor?
Speaker 1 (01:28:09):
I don't remember his exact age. I wanna say he
was about a year older than me. I think actually
I think we were just n we were. We were
very close in age, but he was older than me.
Speaker 8 (01:28:19):
Okay, Now when you started interacting with mister Warez again, Uh,
we've heard from y earlier testimony that, uh, he became
your boyfriend at a certain point in time when you
were around seventeen years old, right, yes, okay, could you
just kind of describe for us, Uh what happened in
(01:28:42):
that time period, Uh, when Victor was your boyfriend and
then Bobby became your boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
Yes, Bobby and I would talk a few times a week,
and then it became m a little more frequent. The
pichre and I would I couldn't see myself like moving
to Costa Rica and having that kind of life and
having children with him. We argued like over little silly things.
(01:29:13):
Victor was very jealous and so we would like I
couldn't talk to any of my high school friends that
were guys like I went through the drive through and
there was a classmate that I had gone to school
with uh two years, you know, over the years, and
he had a job there and just I was driving,
(01:29:34):
of course, because Victor was from out of the country,
and we just were there to get ice cream. It
was hot, and he gave us the ice cream and
we'd hadn't seen each other all summer with this person
that served us, and the interaction I had with him,
Victor didn't like it, so we argued over things like that.
When we were in Costa Rica, he wanted me always
to walk on the inside of the UH on the
(01:29:56):
sidewalk away from the street. And we were at a
huge soccer game there. It's it's a very big deal there.
They called football, but it's soccer. And there was actually
someone that walked by that looked a lot like Bobby
and it kind of reminded me of him at the time.
You had long, dark, curly hair, and I I glanced
at him and Victor got upset. So things like that
(01:30:19):
I just didn't see myself being in a marriage with him.
So I broke up with him around October, maybe November
nineteen ninety seven on the phone.
Speaker 8 (01:30:30):
On the phone. Yes, after we broke up with Victor,
did you continue seeing Mr Wabins.
Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
We weren't really seeing each other. We were just friends
at that time, but we continued to talk.
Speaker 8 (01:30:41):
Okay, when did the friendship move into something more to
be your boyfriend?
Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
It was again around New Year's I think we spent
New Year's Eve. I had a car then, so we
drove out to this little white chapel in in little
It's called Little Shasta. It's a tiny it's even smaller town.
I don't even know if it's considered a town. And
it's this small white chapel with a tall steeple, and
there was snow everywhere, and we just kind of hung
(01:31:15):
out there and running. The New Year didn't really do
and I I had developed began to develop feelings for
him right before Christmas, and so I expressed that and
he said he was he had feelings for me too,
and so we decided to give things another try at that.
Speaker 8 (01:31:28):
Point, okay, And that's would have been a few months
prior to you moving in with him, Is that right?
Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
I believe I moved in with him in late April,
and so we're around the new year, so four months
more and a half maybe five.
Speaker 8 (01:31:44):
Did your parents were they aware of your relationship with
and I'm speaking as uh as it relates to the
the the occasion we're talking about now, when you're seventeen
or eighteen? Every to excuse me, did they know about
your relationship with mister Wallace?
Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
They knew about it. I don't know how they knew.
I wasn't very open with them about my relationships because
of prior negative experiences with that with regard to that,
so somehow, I mean, it's a small town. I'm sure
people told them they saw us running around or hanging
out in the park or just walking around and we
hung out, so people would tell my mom and things
(01:32:26):
like that.
Speaker 8 (01:32:27):
Did you ever get any indication that your parents approved
or disapproved of this relationship.
Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
I didn't talk extensively with my dad about it, but
my mom didn't like the fact that I was with him, because, uh,
she was basing her opinion on him off of rumors
she had heard about him.
Speaker 8 (01:32:45):
Kay, when you when you were you described it in
in high school. How you were working for your father
at your father's restaurant, right, yes, and in high school,
your junior year. All this was going on at the
point in time when you were began dating.
Speaker 10 (01:33:06):
Mister Waas right.
Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
I think my dad's restaurant closed the year prior, when
I was still a sophomore. I can't quite remember. No, No,
I think it was he closed that spring. I think
he closed that spring in ninety that would have been
ninety eight. I can't remember. It was so many time
in high school he closed his restaurant.
Speaker 8 (01:33:23):
Okay, did you work elsewhere after that?
Speaker 7 (01:33:27):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (01:33:27):
Before you moved out?
Speaker 19 (01:33:30):
Did I?
Speaker 7 (01:33:32):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
I worked at briefly as a hostess at a little
restaurant called Grandma's House.
Speaker 8 (01:33:39):
And during this point in time, when you're a seventeen
year old high school student, mister Wares is out of school.
Are you supplying him with money at this point in
time before you left school?
Speaker 1 (01:33:52):
Yes, Well, he lived with two people he called mom
and Dad. I think they were his grandparents. Bobby said
he was adopted, so his actual his real parents was
kind of I never really met them, but they we lived,
he lived with them. They would be his mom and
(01:34:14):
dad by definition, so I think they were just supplying
you know, clothing and sheltering food and that kind of
thing at that point.
Speaker 8 (01:34:23):
Okay, So going back to my question, were you supplying
mister Ware's with money.
Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
At this point a time?
Speaker 16 (01:34:28):
At this point now?
Speaker 7 (01:34:29):
Kay?
Speaker 1 (01:34:31):
Uh?
Speaker 8 (01:34:34):
Then you leave high school and you move in.
Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
With mister Ware's right, yes, in the spring.
Speaker 6 (01:34:42):
And.
Speaker 8 (01:34:43):
You mentioned that he was living with persons you believed
to be his grandparents.
Speaker 16 (01:34:50):
I don't know if they were.
Speaker 1 (01:34:53):
Like really related or if you just called them his parents,
but if anything, that they were more like his grandparents,
but he called them mom and dad.
Speaker 8 (01:35:03):
You say that because of their age.
Speaker 16 (01:35:04):
Yeah, they were very much older. I actually saw who.
Speaker 1 (01:35:09):
Everyone around town kind of knew was his mother, but
he didn't want anything to do with her, and she
was more appropriate age to be his mother. And these
people were more like in their seventies, late seventies maybe.
Speaker 8 (01:35:20):
Okay. When you spoke about your first relationship with mister Warez,
you spoke about his desire to move to San Francisco
and chase vampires and be with you forever, and how
he dressed in a goth style. Was that still was
(01:35:47):
that fifteen year old Bobby the same way he was
when you got back together with him.
Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
No, he was twenty now, he was a little more mature,
but he was still he still had that eccentricity about him.
For Halloween, he's still he would dress up as the
character played by Brandon Lee from The Crow, with the
white face and all black leather and all that. So
it was a Halloween thing. But he really got into that,
and he did it pretty well actually, so he still
(01:36:16):
had he was still drawn to that, and part of
that was fascinating to me. I thought he was beautiful
on the inside and out, and I was attracted to
him in that regard, but he was a little more
down to earth at this point.
Speaker 8 (01:36:33):
Earlier, you were describing, for a s a a situation
where you were taking some of your possessions and and
moving it in into mister Warez's home. And now eventually
you moved out. Yes, okay, what was what was the
last straw for you to move out of your house?
Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
I think the last straw was actually when they said
you grounded until you're eighteen, And I a a lot
of my things were already at Bobby's house or his
parents' house. They were putting it in a storage shed
right behind the house, just boxes of things that I
had been saving because I knew I was going to
be on my own soon. My dad had recently closed
this restaurant. He let me have a lot of the plates,
(01:37:14):
the dishes, the silverware, so that would just get me started.
So things like that, old books I had already read
but didn't want to part with. Things like that went
to the storage shed. And then when I was grounded,
I thought I only have a few more things to
throw in the car, plus my cat. So I stayed
up all night packing while my parents slept, and I well.
My dad, when he would ground me, used to unhook
(01:37:34):
my car. I don't know what that means, but I
would go out and try to turn the engine and
it wouldn't turn. He would he unhooked something under the hood.
I think I figured out how to rehook it, so
then he started taking the entire piece so that I
couldn't rehook it. So the first thing I did was
I went out after they went to sleep to check
if my car would start, and it did.
Speaker 16 (01:37:52):
So It's relieved, so I began to load up the car.
Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
I was almost completely packed, and then I think around
four thirty or five, I heard one of my pa
it's awake. So I was in the living room, still
packing up a few things, and I jumped on the
couch real a click to pretend like I was sleeping
so they wouldn't wonder why I was awake. And it
was very tired, so I ended up falling asleep. And
then the next thing I knew, it was seven thirty
or seven o'clock and my mom was in the kitchen
(01:38:16):
preparing breakfast, and I thought, oh shoot, I missed my opportunity.
But I just went into my bedroom, found my cat,
picked her up, and I just started walking out the door.
My mom said, what are you doing? And I said nothing,
And I just shut the door and put my cat
in my car and drove out to Bobby's house, unloaded it,
and then went to school that day.
Speaker 8 (01:38:34):
And you said Bobby's house. These people you described is
his grandparents. Did they live in this home as well?
Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (01:38:45):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (01:38:46):
And was there anyone else besides them and Bobby in
this home?
Speaker 2 (01:38:50):
No? Okay.
Speaker 8 (01:38:53):
Describe for us the environment you were leaving your home
with your parents in order.
Speaker 7 (01:38:59):
To live with.
Speaker 10 (01:39:00):
What were you relyked to?
Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
It was structurally, the house was very good, but it
was in very bad shape. His parents were very heavy smokers,
so there was always a haze hanging out in the
living room, and there was a lot of I don't
know what it's called. I guess tar or something running
down the walls, kind of in a deep brown. The
(01:39:25):
living room was almost not quite to the ceiling, but
it was packed with a bunch of things. I don't
know what it was, just various odds and ends. I
guess they were borders. Bobby did the best to make
his bedroom his own little space, but he wasn't allowed
to touch any of those things while they were there,
(01:39:45):
and so, I mean, the kitchen was very, very dirty,
The bathroom was very dirty. The l the Linoyan was
coming off the floor, and the shower was kind of
falling apart, and it was just mess. All of the
the yard all around the house was overgrown. I went
(01:40:06):
back to my parents' house a few days later to borrow.
Speaker 16 (01:40:08):
Their cleaning supplies.
Speaker 1 (01:40:09):
For it.
Speaker 8 (01:40:11):
Doesn't sound like Bobby's house was a was a a
great place to live.
Speaker 7 (01:40:16):
No, he hated it.
Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Like I said, his own room, he did his best
to make that his space and make it habitable, and
then his parents would kind of sit in the living
room all day and watch TV and smoke till they
went to bed.
Speaker 8 (01:40:32):
You mentioned, uh, he kept his room in a different way.
Was that a room you shared with him?
Speaker 1 (01:40:40):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (01:40:41):
Were you having a sexual relationship with him at that
point in time?
Speaker 16 (01:40:46):
I'm trying to remember if we were at that point.
Speaker 3 (01:40:48):
We did.
Speaker 1 (01:40:50):
We did eventually. I don't remember if it was right
before I moved in with him. I think it was
right after I moved in with him. I can't remember
who we We waited several months.
Speaker 3 (01:41:00):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (01:41:03):
So from from what you're telling us then, is that
you moved into this home. This this this filthy home
with one clean room in it. You dropped out of
high school and you were working right.
Speaker 1 (01:41:17):
M Sorry, will you repeat that.
Speaker 8 (01:41:21):
This At this point in time when you moved in
with Bobby, you were at the end of your junior
year and that was your last.
Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
Yes. I was coming up on the end of my
junior year, and you.
Speaker 8 (01:41:30):
Were working as well. I believe you said Grandma's.
Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
Yes, my dad had recently closed this restaurant, and I
think I got a part time position there at Grandma's house.
Speaker 8 (01:41:38):
Okay, And was this how you were supporting yourself?
Speaker 4 (01:41:43):
Yes, it was, and uh, were you supporting mister.
Speaker 8 (01:41:47):
Warez as well?
Speaker 1 (01:41:49):
Not quite yet. Occasionally we'd go on a date and I,
of course wuld pay for it, which wasn't a big
deal to me at the time. He had and he
had a problem getting identification to prove that he was
legally able to work.
Speaker 16 (01:42:04):
In the United States.
Speaker 1 (01:42:05):
So he didn't have an U photo ID, he couldn't
find a copee of his birth certificate. He didn't have
a Social Security card, but he did have a Social
Security number. But every time I went to the DMV
or the Social Security office or the courthouse, they wanted
one form of identification that we were trying to get,
so of those three it was hard to get all
of them, so he couldn't That was the reason he
(01:42:28):
couldn't work, or so that was what I understood.
Speaker 8 (01:42:32):
Okay, So based on what you told us earlier, then
at the end of your junior year, you drove out
of high school and you begin working full time to
support yourself, right.
Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
Yes, Bobby and I went to Chico, California briefly, which
is near Sacramento. It's a little bit south. I think
I was gonna work there, I was gonna live there.
It didn't work out. We were there for about a
week and we went back, and so then I applied
at a restaurant where I applied at Denny's. Actually, and
(01:43:07):
the woman there that gave me a good reference had
worked for my dad the previous year, her and her husband.
So I was hired there around I think August two thousand. Wait,
I'm sorry, that would be nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 8 (01:43:24):
And uh at are you working full time?
Speaker 1 (01:43:29):
Yes? I am was.
Speaker 8 (01:43:31):
And is that the only job you had or did
you have another?
Speaker 16 (01:43:35):
I didn't you know.
Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
I'm sorry I forgot, cause in between that I did
have a brief job at this restaurant called the Purple Plum.
I was a busser. I worked there briefly before thinking
I was gonna move to Chico, and then I came
back and began to work at denny.
Speaker 8 (01:43:51):
So working in Denny's, was this how you were supporting
yourself from mister Wares.
Speaker 16 (01:43:58):
Yes, that's that became our our income.
Speaker 8 (01:44:01):
Who are you making a lot of money?
Speaker 1 (01:44:04):
Well, the cost of living wasn't very high, I would
I would say no, but we were making ends meet
because I didn't have rent or mortgage. At that point,
his parents had moved out and into a rest home.
So we had the kind of runt of the.
Speaker 16 (01:44:19):
House and cleaned it up a little, and you know, discovered.
Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
Just things about the house that we didn't know about
before because it was so cluttered.
Speaker 8 (01:44:29):
Well, who was who was paying for the phone? Who
was paying for the power?
Speaker 2 (01:44:38):
Not me?
Speaker 1 (01:44:39):
I don't know, I guess I really don't know. The
phone was there, the power was there. I think his
parents were still paying for it.
Speaker 16 (01:44:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (01:44:48):
Were you giving him were you giving body money to
buy food or.
Speaker 3 (01:44:53):
How was that?
Speaker 1 (01:44:53):
Yes, I went grocery shopping. I started buying him a
few clothes. At one point, the power did.
Speaker 16 (01:44:59):
Shut off in the winter.
Speaker 8 (01:45:02):
The power was shut off, Yeah, was shut off free sire.
So how did you get by? Were you able to
get it turned back on?
Speaker 9 (01:45:08):
How did it?
Speaker 1 (01:45:08):
We had a furnace and we used candles for a while.
Speaker 8 (01:45:12):
It was very cold.
Speaker 1 (01:45:15):
I don't remember how they got the power on, But
Bobby had a friend or knew somebody that he had
come over to the house and he tinkered with a
meter on the side of the house and then we
had power again.
Speaker 8 (01:45:25):
So at this point in time. Life doesn't seem like
it was a very ideal, No, but it was.
Speaker 16 (01:45:30):
I I enjoyed the freedom.
Speaker 1 (01:45:32):
We just played it by ear. I got moved to
the graveyard shift at Denny's after someone's there, and so
we all became night owls, me and Bobby and all
of our circle of friends that we socialized with.
Speaker 8 (01:45:47):
At this point in time. Uh, how did Bobby treat you?
Speaker 1 (01:45:53):
I thought he treated me well until I discovered that
he wasn't being faithful.
Speaker 8 (01:46:00):
Okay, And when your relationship did you discover that.
Speaker 16 (01:46:06):
We had gone?
Speaker 1 (01:46:07):
He was on the party line a lot, and he
talked to this woman frequently. He said it'd she they
were just friends. They had been interested in each other
in the past, but they decided they were just friends.
It made me a little uncomfortable. He would talk to
her a lot, actually in my presence, so I figured
he's doing it right in front of me. There's nothing
going on there. So then one day he we went
(01:46:28):
to the library that's where I went for our internet access,
and he would email her a lot, and I took
I had to go to work at the Purple Plum,
and I dropped him off at his friend's house. And
I went to go to the Purple Plum, and before
(01:46:48):
going to the Purple Plumb, I went back to the
library and I clicked this is he had a hotmail account,
cause this is in nineteen ninety eight, so I clicked
the I don't know if they had different security things
ought mell at that point, but I clicked the back
button to see what was really going on with her
because I had suspicions. And I found a whole bunch
of love letters that he was writing her that were
(01:47:09):
all contemporaneous with the time that we were together.
Speaker 16 (01:47:12):
So I printed them out and I called and sick
for work because.
Speaker 1 (01:47:15):
I was not well emotionally, and I drove back out
to his friend's house and I didn't want to create
a scene of drama, so I just said, can I
talk to you? And so we went into the bathroom
and they pulled him out of my pocket and handed
him to him, and he opened him up and read
him and I I don't he kind of.
Speaker 8 (01:47:33):
Felt like shocked, kind of glossed over it a little
bit when you saw these letters, How did it make
you feel?
Speaker 1 (01:47:44):
It didn't make me feel good. He was very loving
and poetic with this person. And I could tell he
had real feelings for her, and I don't know, I
guess I felt jealous a little bit, but I my
heart was pounding. I just felt very dis Ea. I
forgot to mention. One of the things I did before
I went to the house is I drove back out
(01:48:06):
to Montague and I took all of my belongings out
of his room and put them in my car and
decided I was gonna move out and then with my grandmother.
So that's when we went. I went back to his
house and confronted him with those okay, or I mean
back to the friend's house.
Speaker 8 (01:48:23):
Sorry, you mentioned that he was this this woman whoever
d was, that he was corresponding with uh, that he
was treating her in a very loving, poetic way. Yes,
it leads to the implication anyway, that he wasn't that
way to you.
Speaker 16 (01:48:43):
He was initially, but.
Speaker 1 (01:48:47):
I don't know. I guess we had just sort of
gotten comfortable around each other, and we weren't r we
weren't fighting or anything. We were just kind of I
don't know, I don't really know how to explain it.
He was still loving toward me, but but he was
it seemed like he was going out of his way
to really court her, whereas I was already you know,
in the bag, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (01:49:08):
You were already What was that just like I was already.
Speaker 1 (01:49:12):
He didn't have to court me. I was already with him.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 8 (01:49:15):
Okay? Yes? Was Bobby ever physically abusive towards you.
Speaker 1 (01:49:24):
There was one time where we had a fight. Trying
to think, I think this was in ninety nine. We
had broken up and got back together a few times.
I broke up with him, obviously after that incident, and
then he somehow, I don't know, it's a long story,
but he convinced me to stay. So I stayed and
(01:49:44):
put all my things back, and he promised you wouldn't
have contact with her anymore. But we broke up a
few more times and then got back together. And at
one point I had moved out of his house and
I was living with another woman, and and it wasn't
far from his house. It was like two blocks, and
in Lanaguio there's a lot of fields that could actually
(01:50:06):
we could see each other's houses from there sort of.
And so I was advised over and over to get
away from him, cause he's not healthy. But you know
my heart was I was still I still cared about him.
So one day he came over to the house like
he always did, and we were hanging out and I
(01:50:28):
don't remember how, but an argument started and sustained. When
was this This was sometime in nineteen ninety nine. I
think it was in the fall, early fall, like September,
maybe even on August, but I think it was around
sometime in the early fall, okay, And.
Speaker 8 (01:50:50):
It was at the home. I did, was he physical
with you at this at this acquaintance's hall.
Speaker 3 (01:50:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:50:56):
Our argument escalated and he approached me and spun me around,
and he was very much into martial arts, so he
had some kind of hold. I guess it was called
a stranglehold. So he started strangling me and just for
a few seconds, and then he let go. I almost
passed out. I fell on my knees and it kind
of made me upset cause he'd never done that before.
(01:51:17):
So I got up. He started walking away. I got
up and I said something to him, like what did
I say, something to the effect of my family would
be very upset if they found out what you just did.
And then he began to describe in detail how he
would kill each member of my family. He knew a
(01:51:39):
lot about my family, so these were all very personalized
details about how they would die. And at that point
the argument escalated again and he attacked me again. Not
I don't know how, he jumped on me. And at
that point I was trying to get to the phone
(01:52:00):
to call nine one one, and he got my arm
in some kind of lock and was putting pressure on
the forearm and I thought he might break it, cause
that seemed to be what the goal was. So I
managed to grab the phone and I called nine one one,
and he grabbed it out of my hand and hung up,
and I was crying, and he kept telling you to
shut up because they were gonna call back. So he
(01:52:24):
was right. They the phone rang and he answered, and
he gave the operator an excuse like said, my girlfriend
was trying to program nine one one into the speed
dial and accidentally called it.
Speaker 8 (01:52:38):
This happened, and then you got back together with it,
right or you didn't really break up.
Speaker 16 (01:52:45):
This happened, and this was really I'm sorry, this was
really toward the end.
Speaker 1 (01:52:49):
Of our relationship. We still I don't this was really
toward the end. This was It didn't happen like, we
didn't stay together much longer after.
Speaker 8 (01:52:58):
That, But you did stay together after that, right.
Speaker 1 (01:53:00):
We continue to hang out. He met a friend that
he had known prior to His name was Matt, and
he moved in with Matt.
Speaker 8 (01:53:10):
And this was in Let me ask you this, Why
did you stay together with him after this incident?
Speaker 1 (01:53:17):
Well, I don't know that we were still together together,
but he would still come over to the house where
I lived, and it was just a nicer place to.
Speaker 16 (01:53:25):
Hang out in his and I just continued to hang
out with him in that regard.
Speaker 8 (01:53:31):
Why would you hang out with him in that regard?
Speaker 1 (01:53:36):
Well, the the the physical incident that occurred that day
that those two things were isolated, and during all the
years that I'd known him, that had never happened before.
So I just didn't think that it was something a
pattern of his or that would continue.
Speaker 8 (01:53:54):
Did you ever engage in sexual behavior with him after
this incident?
Speaker 16 (01:53:59):
I don't remember. Maybe not, maybe once or twice, I
don't remember, honestly.
Speaker 8 (01:54:05):
And why was that okay with you? After this incident?
Speaker 1 (01:54:08):
I still loved him.
Speaker 8 (01:54:11):
You mentioned point in time when Bobby moved in with
a individual named Matt. Yes, okay, and I believe you
were talking about how the end of your relationship with
Bobby you moved into your grandparents' home.
Speaker 1 (01:54:30):
Correct, Yes, I moved out of that woman's house and
into my grandmother's house.
Speaker 8 (01:54:38):
And what city is your grandmother's house located?
Speaker 6 (01:54:44):
Why?
Speaker 16 (01:54:44):
Weca?
Speaker 8 (01:54:46):
And did you live there just with your grandmother? Was
anyone else living?
Speaker 16 (01:54:50):
My grandfather also lived there and their dog ringo.
Speaker 8 (01:54:57):
Were you close to your grandparents parent?
Speaker 17 (01:55:00):
How was your relationship with that I felt close to
my grandparents, not like lovey dovey close, but they seem.
Speaker 16 (01:55:08):
They're very down to earth people. Well, my grandfather's my.
Speaker 1 (01:55:11):
Grandmother is very down to earth and I'm I can
just tell her anything and it doesn't really FaZe her.
Speaker 8 (01:55:17):
Why don't you move back in with your parents?
Speaker 1 (01:55:22):
Well? I didn't want to go back to that environment.
We got along very well after I moved out, and
I wanted to keep it that way.
Speaker 8 (01:55:29):
What tell us about your life after you move back
to your grandparents' home? Are you Are you still working
at Denny's? Do you go back to school? Just kind
of describe your life for us.
Speaker 1 (01:55:39):
Yes. After that incident occurred with Bobby, I had worked
at Denny's for about a year at that point. And
if you're a full time employee at Denny's or I
think a minimum of like thirty two hours a week,
you get vacation benefits. And so I decided to use
that time to spend away from him, and I flew
(01:56:00):
back to Costa Rica for a week and a half.
Speaker 8 (01:56:04):
And am I correct and assuming that was to spend
time with Victor.
Speaker 16 (01:56:08):
No, he didn't live in the house anymore. I stayed
with the same family, but he.
Speaker 1 (01:56:13):
Had moved out and moved on.
Speaker 8 (01:56:15):
So you spent about a week and a half. It
sounds like with Victor's family, not with him, Yes, and
kind of assessing your life is that.
Speaker 3 (01:56:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:56:26):
I spent a lot of time just reflecting and healing
from that, and I felt in a lot better place
by the time I came back Victor. Actually I didn't
see Victor three days before I flew back. So he
took me out to dinner and that was it, and
then drove me to the airport.
Speaker 8 (01:56:41):
Will you say healing from that? What are you talking
about healing from the relationship with Bobby?
Speaker 1 (01:56:48):
Yes, because we kept going back and I kept hearing
about incidents where he was trying to hook up with
other girls, but then he would deny it and I
didn't see anything, So there was just a lot of term. Well,
we were arguing still and then the physical incident that
happened there, and I needed to just remove myself from
the situation so that I could allow my heart to
(01:57:09):
move on a little. And so that break from him,
I thought had helped me a lot.
Speaker 8 (01:57:15):
So at some point in time, you were in love
with Bobby, Yes, very.
Speaker 16 (01:57:19):
Much, a lot more than I was Victor. Bobby was
like my first true love.
Speaker 8 (01:57:24):
Okay, So once you have spent some time in Costa
Rica and you've I guess, used your vacation time at Denny's,
you come back to I Rica, I pursue, Yes, I did, And.
Speaker 9 (01:57:39):
How do you.
Speaker 8 (01:57:42):
Have you proceed in your life?
Speaker 16 (01:57:44):
I went back to work and.
Speaker 1 (01:57:47):
I don't know if he was watching the restaurant, but
the first day back I was there, I went into
the back of the restaurant to get something and I
came back out and he was sitting at the counter. Bobby,
he just had his face in his hands, and he
has he has really beautiful eyes, and he was looking
at me with these eyes, these puppy dog eyes, and
I stopped, and I was kind of shocked.
Speaker 16 (01:58:08):
I felt stronger emotionally, not as weak.
Speaker 1 (01:58:11):
But I was coming up on my half hour break,
so I just I said, just you know, wait a
few minutes and we'll go outside and talk. So I
went outside and we ended up talking for a long time.
I mean we rounded the corner and then hugged, and
it was emotional and that kind of thing.
Speaker 8 (01:58:27):
Okay, But how did you I was that the last
time you see sawt of it?
Speaker 2 (01:58:34):
No?
Speaker 6 (01:58:35):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (01:58:36):
Did you continue in a relationship with him? After that?
Speaker 16 (01:58:39):
We decided we were gonna continue a relationship, but just
it didn't it.
Speaker 1 (01:58:45):
We weren't getting along very well.
Speaker 8 (01:58:47):
And I used a word relationship. Are we talking about
friendship or a romantic relationship?
Speaker 16 (01:58:53):
Romantic?
Speaker 8 (01:58:55):
Did that mean also meet sexual?
Speaker 15 (01:58:56):
Uh?
Speaker 16 (01:58:57):
It would have meant that. I don't really remember, but yeah,
it him at that Okay.
Speaker 8 (01:59:02):
So why at this point in time were you still
open to the idea of a romantic and uh potentially
sexual relationship with a man who had choked you and
throwed you down as you described.
Speaker 1 (01:59:21):
Well, like I said, I considered those incidents isolated and
not a pattern of his and I still loved him,
and I he v he still loved me, and I
didn't want to hurt him, and I didn't want to.
I don't know, it just we were we were. It
just felt natural. I'd been with him for some years.
He was my first love. Being with him, whether it
(01:59:41):
was good or bad, it just felt natural, and it
was what I was accustomed to.
Speaker 8 (01:59:45):
Okay, So at what point in time then do you decide?
Speaker 2 (01:59:49):
Do you?
Speaker 8 (01:59:49):
Said?
Speaker 6 (01:59:50):
You?
Speaker 8 (01:59:50):
And Bobby explored this and decided it wasn't for the best.
When does when does that take place?
Speaker 1 (01:59:57):
There was sort of a turning point in my mind. Well, Costarica,
it was like a good starting point where I began.
Speaker 16 (02:00:03):
I thought i'd moved on.
Speaker 1 (02:00:04):
If I hadn't seen him again, I think I would
have been okay as far as never.
Speaker 16 (02:00:07):
Seeing him again.
Speaker 1 (02:00:08):
But I was weak when he came back, and so
he sort of picked up again briefly. He moved to Medford,
Oregon shortly thereafter. It's about fifty miles north of wuy Rica,
and he moved in with Matt and I would go
up there and visit Bobby and we'd hang out, and
it seemed like once Bobby got on his feet, he.
Speaker 16 (02:00:28):
Didn't really want anything to do with me, and.
Speaker 1 (02:00:30):
So it it it hurt my feelings, I guess because
he had kind of won me back and I was
helping him, but then when he got.
Speaker 8 (02:00:38):
On his feet, he was kind of mean, what do
you mean you were helping him?
Speaker 1 (02:00:42):
Well, I always helped him out until he was able
to get it. He finally got a job. When he
moved to Medford, he met there was a woman he
knew that was a notary public that grew up with
him in school. So she was able to say, this
is really who he is, so he could get I
identification and we finally figure that out.
Speaker 10 (02:00:57):
And so let me interrupt.
Speaker 8 (02:01:01):
I want to make sure we're clear here, even after
the incident, that what you were describing as an isolated
incident of violence, even after the point in time when
you find him find letters that are evidence that he's
(02:01:23):
being unfaithful with you, and you come back from Costa Rica,
you're going to move on, You've decided a romantic relationship.
Speaker 6 (02:01:34):
Is it going to work?
Speaker 8 (02:01:36):
Are we to understand that you're still supporting him financially
as well or helping him?
Speaker 1 (02:01:42):
That was a little bit out of order, but I
did continue to help him. When I found out about
the love letters, he promised to cut ties with her
and not have any contact with her anymore. And it
wasn't physical, it was online only. She lived in Louisiana,
and I think he was still talking, but he promised me,
You'll never have to see me talking to her. So
(02:02:03):
it was implied that he might talk to her, but
he'll never do it in my presence.
Speaker 16 (02:02:07):
So that was kind of strange.
Speaker 1 (02:02:10):
And then again the physical incident was isolated. So you know,
if he needed clothing, would I didn't like buy him
a whole wardrobe. I didn't have that kind of income,
but if he needed a few shirts or something. He
was really into South Park, so he saw these cell
Park t shirts one time and he wanted those, so
I bought them sweatshirt, jeans, that kind of thing, just
some kind of clothing for him because his parents weren't
(02:02:33):
able to provide that at that point. They were in
a rest home.
Speaker 8 (02:02:36):
Oat And you said at this point in time, Bobby
was living in Medford, Oregon with an individual named Matt Right. Yes, okay,
And just so we can get a sense of where
this is comparative to why Rika could you describe for
(02:02:57):
US where Medford is compared to Wayrica.
Speaker 1 (02:03:00):
Yes, it's on Interstate Vibe, just like by Rica. It's
over the border. It's about an hour drive I think
fifty miles, but it takes about an hour to get there,
depending on traffic and the weather.
Speaker 8 (02:03:11):
And I'm certainly not asking for population estimates, but is
this a bigger town than it's a.
Speaker 1 (02:03:16):
Bigger town, not nearly as big as this area. It's
very tiny in comparison, but it's much bigger than my weeka.
Speaker 2 (02:03:23):
And you.
Speaker 8 (02:03:26):
Made trips up to Medford to see Bobby, is that right?
Speaker 3 (02:03:30):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (02:03:30):
I would come up there on the weekend and stay.
Bobby had a food time. They had kind of a studio,
so Matt slept in his own bed and Bobby and
I had a food time, and I would just we
would hang out on the weekends and go.
Speaker 16 (02:03:43):
Out and do things.
Speaker 8 (02:03:44):
Okay, And how many of these trips can you say?
I mean, was this something you did every weekend? How
frequently did you go up to spend time with Bobby?
Speaker 1 (02:03:59):
I went up several times, but that period of our
relationship was short lived, so it was that.
Speaker 16 (02:04:04):
Didn't happen often. I mean very extensively.
Speaker 1 (02:04:08):
Kay.
Speaker 8 (02:04:09):
And uh, this person Matt that he was roommates with.
Had you known Matt prior to these trips up to Medford?
Speaker 7 (02:04:18):
No?
Speaker 8 (02:04:19):
Okay, And does Matt have a last name McCartney. Did
you ever develop any sort of friendship or relationship with him?
Speaker 1 (02:04:27):
Yes, we became friends around the time. I think he
kind of noticed how Bobby was treating me, and it
felt good to have somebody else kind of see my
side of it. He wasn't attacking Bobby by any means,
like saying, hey, you should be this way of that,
but it just, you know, I s Actually I came
(02:04:48):
up there one weekend to visit and another girl came
to visit Matt, and it was a real eye opener
because I saw how Matt was treating her, and he
was very chivalrous and very polite, and he was a
gentleman and he just treated her with a lot of respect,
and that's not something I had received. But you know,
I've seen it on TV and that kind of thing.
So it was just jarring to see that and then
(02:05:09):
see and then consider my relationship.
Speaker 8 (02:05:12):
So well, let me let me ask you this. She
said that that was surprising for you to see right, yes,
and that is in a way that you experienced Bobby
treating me, Is that right?
Speaker 1 (02:05:24):
Nope, Yes, that's right.
Speaker 8 (02:05:27):
But you lived with your parents for seventeen years, the
first seventeen years of your life, right, yes? Did you
not see your father treat your mother in this way?
Speaker 6 (02:05:43):
Did?
Speaker 8 (02:05:44):
Did they treat each other in a different manner?
Speaker 1 (02:05:47):
When I was young? My father was very affectionate with
my mom. I've seen them kids, I've seen them embrace,
Like there's a beautiful woman on TV and we're sitting
around watching it. He'll say, she's not as pretty as
your mom, or you know, he he put her on
a sort of a pedestal sort of.
Speaker 16 (02:06:03):
But then there were times when they would argue.
Speaker 1 (02:06:04):
And fight things like that.
Speaker 8 (02:06:08):
He say, argue and fight, what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (02:06:11):
Not physical? They would just well sometimes I mean he
would say something. My dad's very sarcastic and he thinks
he's funny, and sometimes he is, but he can be
very uncouth sometimes, and so when things would come out
of his mouth, my mom would just smack him on
the arm and he would smack her back kind of
as a way to say he don't do that, And
then she would be offended by that, so she would
(02:06:31):
smack him back, and then he'd smack even harder, and
then she would give up. But it was just on
the arm. But you know, that's the only time I
ever saw him be physical at all.
Speaker 8 (02:06:39):
Did you know, Uh, how did your father father treat
your mother? Was he degrading to her? Did he criticize her?
Speaker 2 (02:06:50):
He?
Speaker 1 (02:06:50):
I can't recall specific incidents, but that's very much my dad.
He's very negative, he's very critical.
Speaker 8 (02:06:58):
He's very gossipy, Harry, what was that?
Speaker 1 (02:07:03):
I don't know if that's a word. Gossipy. He gossips
a lot about people.
Speaker 16 (02:07:06):
Behind their back. He talks about them.
Speaker 1 (02:07:11):
So, I mean he'll say things about now we talk
on the phone now, and he'll say things about my
mom sometimes or sometimes they have complaints about each other,
but you know they're still loyal to each other.
Speaker 8 (02:07:22):
Well, what do you mean things he would say about
your mom? What co what things would he complain about
with your mothers approach me continue without specifically what you said.
Was there certain sides of matters that your dad would
(02:07:42):
you degrade your mother?
Speaker 1 (02:07:44):
Regarding one I recall specifically, is my mother used to
be very thin, and I think she's like a size
tend now.
Speaker 16 (02:07:54):
I would guess.
Speaker 1 (02:07:55):
He used to put up photos of her on the
refrigerator when she was thinner, and he would make comments
about her weight gain and just he would put little
things like that around the house to.
Speaker 16 (02:08:08):
Remind her that he would prefer her.
Speaker 1 (02:08:10):
With less weight, things like that. So I don't know
how that affected her, but that was pretty constant. If
somebody was crossing the crosswalk that was overweight, he would
yell at them.
Speaker 16 (02:08:21):
And I won't say what he said.
Speaker 1 (02:08:22):
But.
Speaker 16 (02:08:25):
I don't know things like that.
Speaker 8 (02:08:26):
Okay, But you said your mother would just simply you
said to you something to the effect you learned. Uh uh.
They were always loyal.
Speaker 10 (02:08:40):
To each other.
Speaker 8 (02:08:41):
Yes, your mom was always loyal to your dad. What
do you mean? What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (02:08:49):
Well, my parents weren't the kind where if one said no,
you couldn't run to the other and have a different answer.
Maybe if they didn't weren't aware of the other of
their spouse's answer. But they were very united. If we
were fighting, it didn't matter the points of the argument.
My dad would side with my mom or my old
side with my dad at all times. So they were
(02:09:11):
very They were.
Speaker 16 (02:09:12):
Like one unit. They were very united.
Speaker 1 (02:09:13):
They're very loyal and it I think when I was younger,
I heard my I think I heard my mom mentioned
the word divorce one time. But and that really like
shook me because I thought it just didn't seem I
couldn't imagine a world where my parents weren't married. And
so they're still married today. I mean, even through bad times,
they they're still together, they still love each other.
Speaker 8 (02:09:35):
Well, I should have been more clear in my question.
You know, you talked about loyalty as parents and backing
each other up and that sort of thing. But whatever
was really asking about is in terms of the loyalty
of the of the relationship. Sounds like, from what you're
telling us, your mom put up with a fair amount
(02:09:58):
and remained loyal to your dad.
Speaker 1 (02:10:00):
What I'm hearing you say, yes, Yeah, they're very loyal.
They're still married. They've been married about thirty three and
a half years. My grandparents are married. There's not a
very high divorce rate in my family. They're still together.
Speaker 8 (02:10:13):
Okay, we were talking about this different way. Matt McCartney
was treating a female. I guess it was his girlfriend
or somebody was dating. Is that correct?
Speaker 16 (02:10:32):
Did you get somebody he had met online or somehow.
Speaker 1 (02:10:35):
She lived in Crescent City and she just came out
for the weekend the same time I came out to
see Bobby. And nothing ever really progressed with that. They
didn't start dating or anything like that. They just hung
out for the weekend, and I just saw how he
was treating her.
Speaker 8 (02:10:50):
Okay, tell me how things then progressed in your life.
Did you just keep working? Did you like change?
Speaker 16 (02:11:01):
I wanted to.
Speaker 1 (02:11:05):
I wanted to work in a in an environment where
I could earn a little bit more money.
Speaker 16 (02:11:10):
I needed a new car.
Speaker 1 (02:11:13):
There were different kinds of bills coming in at this point,
and Medford is a town that has a lot more restaurants,
a lot more business, that kind of thing. So, as
I got to know Matt and Bobby, Matt's mother lives
in Maa, Rika too, so I met her and his
sister and we all sort of became friends. And Matt's
dad lived in a city called Phoenix. It's in just
(02:11:35):
south of Medford and it's in Oregon, and he had
he lived with his girlfriend Matt's dad, and they had
an extra well they staid just come crash on a
couch until you can get a job and get your
own place. So I crashed on Matt's dad's couch where
he and his girlfriend lived for I don't remember how long,
maybe a month, and I got a job at Applebee's
(02:11:55):
and began to work there. Okay, So.
Speaker 8 (02:12:00):
Did you then move to med move out of your
grandparent's house and moved to Medford? Just tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (02:12:04):
Yes, Right around the time I moved to Medford, Bobby
and I stopped talking. He actually I was hanging out
with him and his sister and her son, and they
were renting house right across the street from my parents' house.
So I was over there hanging out with them, and
(02:12:25):
Bobby came by and saw Matt and I and this,
I would say, at this point it was early two thousand,
I think.
Speaker 8 (02:12:37):
Okay, and at this point in time, Matt McCartney's your boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (02:12:41):
Yes, well, I don't remember I was making it official,
but we became romantic and then yeah, we were a
boyfriend girlfriend.
Speaker 8 (02:12:46):
Okay, just this might be a good time.
Speaker 3 (02:12:49):
Great ladies and gentlemen, tomorrow morning, ten thirty, please remember
the admonition have a nice evening. You are excused, please
be seated Council, anything before we adjourn for the day,
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