Day 14

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You may, yeah, please be seated.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
The record will show the presence of the jury, the defendant,
and council the areas you are still under road.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Do you understand, yes, it is you may continue.

Speaker 4 (00:31):
Thank you an good morning, mysterious good morning. Yesterday, when
we finished we were talking, we were at a point
in your life when you were about ready to move
in with Matt McCartney. Do you recall where we loved

(00:53):
uf okay? And yesterday i'd ask you if this point
in time you were boyfriend and girlfriend, and it seemed
like you didn't have a definitive answer for that. Is
that a label you two didn't use.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Or I don't recall when we made things official. But
he wasn't seeing anyone else, and neither was I.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
I'm sorry, what was that?

Speaker 3 (01:17):
I don't recall when we made it official our relationship.
I mean, it definitely became that way, but I don't
remember the exact date or time or circumstance. But we
weren't seeing anybody else, just each other.

Speaker 4 (01:28):
Okay, So when you moved in together, it was with
the idea that this was a monogamous relationship, yes, okay,
and you were working. I believe you told us you
got a job at Applebee's right, yes, okay?

Speaker 3 (01:44):
And was Matt working Yes, he was a manager at Subway.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Okay. Tell us what life was like and how was
the relationship. How did he treat you?

Speaker 3 (01:57):
I see that period of my life is probably one
of the best times in my life. He treated me
very well. He was very kind, he was very respectful,
He was very spiritual. When I first met him, he
I was a little bit lary of some of the
things he was into. I saw some books on witchcraft,

(02:19):
and I thought, uh, But he explained to me that
he was just seeking that he had gone to church
most of his life and his family, he and his
family are very much into the Native American culture, and
so he asked his pastor about the Native Americans and
he was told they went to Hell because they didn't
know Jesus Christ. So that turned him off to Christianity,

(02:42):
and he decided to explore other religions. So about the
time that I met him, he was not practicing WICCA,
but he was studying it, and so he had kind
of explained it a little bit to me, so that
I wasn't so I guess frightened or suspicious or superstitious
maybe of the religion, and so I never practiced it myself,

(03:06):
but I think he did prior to us getting together,
and by the time I met him, he was sort
of moving on to other studying Eastern philosophy and Hinduism
and Buddhism and that kind of thing too. So I
mean our relationship took a lot of different spiritual turns
into us.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
This might be a good point to back up a
little bit in terms of because you mentioned and all
use his words spirituality and or religious beliefs. At the
time that you met Matt, where were you spiritually? Was
there a particular religion you were a member of? Could
you describe that for us?

Speaker 3 (03:43):
I was not a member of any denomination. I considered
myself Christian. I didn't attend church, and I didn't obey
all the commandments that Christianity the spouses.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
Okay, So when you talked about add in the spirituality,
did you become more affiliated with his beliefs or tell
us about that.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
We sort of explored together and opened up to other beliefs.
We began taking meditation seminars, kind of New Age type seminars,
but they had their roots in Hinduism. Or Buddhism, maybe
some kind of like more modern version of Transcendentalism and
things like that. We just took these little courses and
classes and we would drive to Portland or the Bay Area.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Was that a big part of your relationship with Matt?

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yes, it was.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
This may go without saying because you lived together. But
was this also a sexual relationship?

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Did you love Matt very much?

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah? I was in love with him.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
Okay. And this part aartment? Did you both contribute to
the finances of the apartment.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yes, all of the living expenses were split fifty to
fifty okay.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
And how long did you and Matt live in this apartment?

Speaker 3 (05:17):
We lived in that small apartment for about five months,
and then we moved to Crater Lake, Oregon.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Okay. And why did you move to Createrlake.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
The seasonal work there is in the summer. It's a
very high elevation, so the snows days till about July
and comes back in October, so it's a quick season.
It's a busy season. So they have staff housing there
at the resort, and we got a dorm and stayed
there for the season and worked there.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Did you and Matt live together when you were in
this it's dorm as you describe it. Okay, yes, and
this point in time, then you're probably several months in
your relationship, right, Yes, at.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
This point six months I'd say, I.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Know that probably it's hard to quantify, but was this
a serious relationship at this point in time?

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yes? We weren't, like, have we discussing marriage, but we
were talking about children and what kind of lifestyle we
would have if we decided to have a family.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
So was uh marriage uh on the table so to speak?

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah, it was a future possibility.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
How long in total in terms of your relationship were
you together with Matt?

Speaker 3 (06:38):
I think approximately a year and eight months?

Speaker 4 (06:42):
Okay, in that year and eight months did he ever
hit you?

Speaker 3 (06:50):
No?

Speaker 4 (06:51):
Did he ever call you afore?

Speaker 5 (06:53):
No?

Speaker 4 (06:54):
A slut?

Speaker 3 (06:55):
No?

Speaker 4 (06:56):
Three?

Speaker 3 (06:56):
No?

Speaker 4 (06:57):
Wonder no. What brought the end of your relationship with
Matt McCartney.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Well, after the first season at Crater Lake, we came
back and ironically, the same exact apartment opened up again,
so we rented the same place where we lived prior
to that. We stayed there for some months and we
began to sort of argue over little things. It wasn't
anything serious, but it wore on a relationship because it
just made things not so enjoyable. So we decided to

(07:34):
take a breather from each other, well not from each other,
but just from our living together. So he went, he
went back to Creater Lake for a season, and this
time I did not go. I moved to Ashland, which
is about fifteen minutes south of Medford. It's in Oregon.

Speaker 4 (07:48):
Also, let me ask you before you go any further,
these arguments that you spoke, you would have little arguments
or things would be get uncomfortable. Describe what you mean
by little arguments because that could mean a lot of
different things to different people. Was there screaming, Was there
throwing things?

Speaker 3 (08:09):
No, nothing like that. It was more like nagging. Like
he would leave us clothes everywhere, and I would be like,
you know, and what else? Sometimes I would leave a
dish somewhere in the living room if we were eating,
and so it was kind of like more about house
housekeeping and that sort of thing, just you know, living together.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
And those d f themselves didn't get law from what
you're doing, No, they weren't. Okay, now you're talking about
this period in time, you're starting to have some discordinate relationship.
Tell us how that discord leads to the end of
the relationship.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
Well, we decided to spend a little time apart. We
saw each other on our weekends. He would come into
town in Ashland and stay with me, and I remember
I was with his dad's girlfriend and she was trying
to I felt sort of like we were distancing, but
I was. I was hanging out with them. I can't

(09:08):
remember her name, but his dad's girlfriend at the time,
and we were trying to download pictures onto his dad's
hard drive and on the desktop there were some other
pictures of this girl and I didn't recognize her, but
I recognized the setting and it was inside the lodge
at Crater Lake, and so the date was also current
with this this season, which would have been two thousand

(09:29):
and one s but it was just labeled with I
guess an initial the letter B. So I didn't know
who she was, but I wasn't overly concerned about it,
but you know, I just kind of had a a feeling,
and so I let that go. And a few weeks later,
I was working at Applebee's and two I was walking

(09:52):
past the table and two people said hi, Jodi, and
I stopped and I didn't recognize them, and uh. They
explained that they worked with Matt at Crater Lake and
they were just in town for their days off and
they I just said hi, and you know, checked on
them later as that they were about to leave and
they said, we took a vote and think she we
uhould know something. And they told me that he was

(10:14):
seeing a girl named Bianca at Crater Lake and so
that explained the initial be on that photo. And I
kind of said, well, does she have Durk Care and
he said yes, and so I figured it was her.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
Let me ask you this, what did you do when
you had this information?

Speaker 3 (10:30):
I was reeling because I mean, of all the boyfriends
I had, I I would have expected him to not
be the one that cheated on me. He was very loyal.
I trusted him completely, Like implicitly, he could have said
this guy is falling and I would have believed him.
I think I would have just looked out the window
to see what it looks like. But I asked my

(10:50):
boss if I could go home a little early, and
he said that was fine, So I think I was
let go. It was slow. I was like, go around
seven and.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
Just saw you were living with Matt at the time.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
No, he was living at Crater Lake and I was
living in Ashland. Okay. So I went home, I changed
my clothes, and I decided to at this time though
Matt was this night, Matt was in Brego Springs, California.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Looking at home.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Was that from where you were very far? It's almost
by the border, and Ashland is up by the other
California and border, the northern border.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Okay, So did you call Matt?

Speaker 3 (11:30):
No, neither of us had cell phones at that time.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
Okay, So what did you What did you do once
you went home early and learned this information?

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Well, I decided that I wanted to find out if
it was true. So I it wasn't very late. It's
about an hour and a half drive to Crater Lake.
So after getting dressed, I drove up to Crater Lake
to see if I could find out. I had friends
that were still there, and I went and the people
that told me this I didn't know, so I wanted
to find out from them, and I went there. There

(12:00):
were two dormitories there, so I went to the one
that's closest to the lodge because that one was where
people would hang out and so I could find some
people that I knew, and I ran into a guy
I think his name was Steve, and I asked him
to stay.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
You are any of the jurors having trouble hearing? So,
anyone having trouble hearing, I understand that you reported to
the bailiff earlier that you had difficulty yesterday. Anyone who
cannot hear today. If at any time you cannot hear,
please raise your hand.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
And let me know immediately.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
You may continue.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
Okay, Jody, you were in the process of telling us
you're going to create Lake to find out whether or
not Matt was being unfaithful to you.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Right, I didn't want to continue in the relationship if
that was the case. If it wasn't the case, then
of course I would because I loved him.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
Did you find out that information? Did? Were you able
to confirm it? Or yes, dispell it? And uh what
did yo? How did you do that?

Speaker 3 (13:10):
I went? I eventual I knocked on Beianca's door and
Steve had run to warn her so I could hear
them talking, and he was very frantic. He's how do
I say this? Well, he's gay, so he kind of
is very he exaggerates. He's very emotional and he's very animated,

(13:31):
and so it kind of made me chuckle cause he
was sound. He sounded very funny, and I could tell
he they were nervous, so ch She opened the door
and I said, Hi, are you Bianca? And she said yeah.
So she invited me in cause she knew who I was,
and so we sat down. There were two beds in
the storm. She was staying with another relative. They were

(13:51):
both from Romania and they were here for seasonal work.
So she sat on her bed, I sat on the
other bed, and we just talked for about an hour
and a half, maybe not quite that long, even hour,
and she just told me that she started to see.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
Based on this conversation, weird confirm the idea that Matt
McCartney and beyond that were having an affair.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yes, well, yes they were together.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
Okay, Now in this hour and a half conversation, were
you yelling at her?

Speaker 3 (14:29):
No? It was just chit chat. Actually, I mean I
was trying not to freak out or cry or get upset,
you know, because she had no idea. She was under
the impression that he and I were alonger together, so
that I didn't look at this as her fault.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
How did it feel when you had this information confirmed.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
I didn't really allow myself to have much emotion about
it until I left her presence, and at that point
I allowed myself to cry.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
And where were you at this point? Had you gone
back home? Or is this this like out in the
parking lot?

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Well, at this point it was really late. So I
ended up crashing in my friend Eddie's dorm, and he
was just he was kind of a family friend. He's
also his family is from Wu Rica. He's friends with Matt,
he's friends with me. His father also owned a local restaurant,
so we all knew each other. So Eddie said, you

(15:33):
can sleep here and i'll s you know, there were
two beds in that dorm and so I crashed there
until about sunrise, and then I got up and drove
back to Medford.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
And at this point in time, when you're driving back
to Medford, have you talked to Matt. No, When you
go back to Medford, what do you do?

Speaker 3 (15:57):
I don't remember the sequence of order. But I also
confronted Matt and he confirmed it, and at that point
he was honest about it.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Well, let me let me, let me ask you this
this you say this confrontation. Was Matt back in Medford
when you got there?

Speaker 3 (16:13):
He came back, but I don't remember if he was
there the day that I got back from Crater Lake,
or if he came the next day or whenever.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
Okay, and what do you mean by confrontation.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
I went over to his dad's house at that I
knew the day he was getting back, and he was
on the phone with Bianca when I came over and
he's hung up and he said, I know what you
want to talk about, And so we went we left
the house and went to my car so that we
didn't so that his dad wasn't privy to the information,

(16:45):
because I think Matt was very embarrassed about it. So
we just talked about it, and basically our relationship was
over and it was kind of sad.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
Great And when was this again? Time wise, this would.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Have been said September. It was right before September eleventh,
so it was in two thousand and one. I just
remember that.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
And was this a heated confrontation or just it was heated?

Speaker 3 (17:14):
It was just emotional. We were both crying, okay.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
And this time in September two thousand and one was
that the last time you saw Matt McCartney. No tell
us what happened after you, guys, I guess broke up
in September two thousand and one. What happened with your relationship?

Speaker 3 (17:36):
I wanted to leave the area because Matt and I
had a lot of experiences, mostly all good in that
whole southern Oregon area, all those towns, Crater Lake, that
entire area. So it was very just every corner that
I drove and turned, it was sentimental. So I wanted
to leave. So there was a martial arts instructor that

(17:59):
I knew, Matt and I knew, and he said that
his years sustained.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
Without telling us anybody, what said? What steps did you
take in your life? Next?

Speaker 3 (18:12):
He referred me to another place of employment in Bigsar, California.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
And where was that?

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Bigsar, California is also in Monterey County, like Salinas. I'd
never been there all the years I lived in Salinas.
It's south of Carmel, about twenty eight miles.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
And was there a particular resort? Yes, what was that?

Speaker 3 (18:36):
The resort is called, or it was called I think
it's still called Vintana and.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
Inst now Was that the resort where you met Daryl Brewer? Yes, okay,
he applied for a job and were interviewed by Daryl
Brow Is that right, Yes, okay. Tell us about that
period in your life, what you were doing, how you

(19:00):
were living.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Well, I drove down there and interviewed with Daryl. It
was in the afternoon. I kind of I was. I
was a little apprehensive about moving all the way out there.
There was no place to live. There was staff housing
at that resort as well, but nothing was open or
available at that time. I was told that when there

(19:27):
is an overflow of employees, they are allowed to use
the campground if there are open lots. Because this was
in October. Now, I think my interview was actually on
October twentieth, because I remember it was Math's birthday. So
during that time, that's a slow season in Bigxer. Everythings
are slowing down, so the campground was mostly all open.
So I was trying. I was thinking of trading in

(19:50):
my car to get a trailer, but I wasn't really
in a financial position to do that. So when Daryl
hired me, I kind of scrambled around and went to
an outdoor supply store and bought some equipment, and when
Matt heard about what I was doing, he was also
looking for work. The position he saw at Briga Springs

(20:11):
didn't pan out, and so he came down to Big
sur and also applied at Vantana.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Okay, so let me understand this as it relates to
Matt McCartney. He said that the breakup wasn't that the
breakup conversation wasn't the last time you talked. It sounds
to me like you maintained a relationship with him after
you broke up. Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yes, there was a period after we broke up when
we didn't talk for about a week and then maybe
a couple more. We would say hi briefly on the
phone and then I'll talk again, cause it was just
our feelings were tender and it was just kind of
a sticky situation that he was. He was really ashamed
of his behavior. I think his mother had shamed him

(20:55):
a little. But eventually and we began to talk again,
if that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (21:03):
Okay, And when he just so we're clear too, you
talked about him or I guess he was going to
live with you in this tent, right, Yes, he was okay,
and just so we're clear. Was this the rekindling of
the romance so to speak?

Speaker 3 (21:24):
Not really. I mean there were blurred boundaries because we
were familiar with each other, comfortable with each other. We
weren't actively trying to rekindle a relationship, but there was
still a lot of sentimentality.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
Okay, were you still sexual with him at this point
in time?

Speaker 3 (21:44):
One time we had sex, one more time after we
broke up.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
After that, then it was merely platonic.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
I considered it platonic. I still had some feelings for him,
but we were not really together, and we were just
friends at that point. I got actually, two weeks after
living in the tent, I secured employee housing, and I
think he stayed in the tent for some time and
then he got employee housing also.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
Okay, now, what was your job at this resort? What
was what did mister Brewer initially hire you to do?

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Initially? I started as just a server in the restaurant.
There's a restaurant.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
Apenton, Okay, and describe this restaurant for us. I mean,
it's this Danny equivalent of Danny's or just no.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
It's considered classified as fine dining. It was once rated
four Stars by Mobile Resorts. It had been featured in
Continest Traveler and all kinds of different publications. It had
a lot of accolades, and it's kind of a resort
where high profile celebrities and things would go to just

(22:58):
to be private and get away from things. So our
guests were treated discreetly and you know.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
Okay, well, as far as jobs go, was to say
you talked about you had a career waiting tables and
Danny's and Purple Plumb in all these places. Was this
one of one of the better paying jobs you've had.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
As far as well, most servers work for the tips,
so as far as that goes, it was better paying.
There was also a bit of a bigger tip out though,
So when you have a position like that, it's not
just you, you know, taking orders and delivering food. You have
a lot of health different people that make the restaurant
runs smoothly, and so you have a lot of different
people such as the bartender, the hostess, the busser that

(23:43):
you tip out. So even though the tip pool was
huge at the end, you know, after the tip out,
I was still walking away with more than at Applebee's.
So it was it was nicer, okay.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
And how long did you remain a server with uh Ventana.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
I think I was there three and a half years.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
Was that your only position within the resort?

Speaker 3 (24:10):
No. The following summer in two thousand and two, the
wedding coordinator, her name was Arlene Marillo. She was having
stomach pains that she had been ignoring for several months,
and she finally went to the doctor and found out
she had pancreatic cancer and she passed away within a month.
So I filled her position temporarily until they could find

(24:31):
a more permanent replacement for wedding coordinator.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
And and you were acting as a wedding coordinator is
that right? Okay? And what did that involve?

Speaker 3 (24:40):
It involved working with the brides and grooms and how
they wanted their reception and their ceremonies set up. There
are a few wedding sites at Ventana and just you know,
negotiating the costs with them and returning phone calls, emails,
sending out wedding packages for inquiries.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
And were you at this point in time when you
were a wedding coordinator, were you in a relationship with
Daryl Borrow No, tell us you talked about October two
thousand and one. You go to Ventana, you're hired by
mister Brewer. Tell us about how that relationship.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Evolved during that summer well in May. In May, right
prior to the summer, the restaurant it was called Celo
at the time, it closed for remodeling, and so we
moved the entire restaurant operation over to the Inn and
I helped out with that, and Daryl was heapily involved

(25:42):
with that, so we were working closely together, and then
also with the wedding coordinating position, we worked more closely together.
So I began to sort of develop a crush on him,
but he was my boss, so I didn't ever let
that on. And then at one point he pulled me
aside and said, I'm going to resign for my position

(26:03):
tonight at I think it was called the briefing. I
think it was some kind of meeting we had before
the ship started, so he wanted to let me know that,
so it wasn't like a shock. I think he let
a few at our managers know ahead of time.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
And how many months were you working with mister Brewer
before ge your recollection before he told you he was
going to resign his position.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
Well, I would have been working with him from the
day I was hired, so about a year okay.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
And but at that point in time it was merely
a working relationship. Was it a friendship?

Speaker 3 (26:35):
I wouldn't even call it a friendship. We kept that separate.
We never fraatenized or anything like that. We just worked together.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
So he's advising you that he's changing positions. Do you
begin dating then or describe that for us? No.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
After he stepped down from his management position, he stepped
into a supervisory role. So I still didn't, you know,
make any moves or he didn't make it, didn't express anything,
and I didn't express anything. But then he decided he
was going to step out of that role too, and

(27:15):
prior to actually doing that, we had a conversation where
we sort of discovered our mutual interest in each other,
but we still didn't do anything because he was still
technically my supervisor. In about a week later, he stepped
out of that position and we went on a date.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
Now at that point in time, how old are you
in two thousand, in two thousand and one or two,
I guess we're talking about two thousand and.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
Two now, Rightah, I was twenty two, okay.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
And how old was mister Brewer?

Speaker 3 (27:42):
He was forty two.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
How did you feel about dating someone that much you're senior.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
I wasn't so much concerned about dating him as I
was concerned about how other people might view it. I
found Daryl very attractive. He was tall, was you know, handsome,
beautiful eye is that kind of thing. We were very
compatible our personalities. I don't know. I kind of saw
him as like a George Clooney type, like he's older

(28:10):
but attractive, and we had a lot of similar interests.
So I think he was more concerned about the age
gap than I was, because he was also concerned about
how people might view him for dating somebody so young.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
When you began dating him, did you know of his
Did you know he had a son? Yes?

Speaker 3 (28:31):
I had seen him a few times at the restaurant, okay.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
And did you know that he was divorced?

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (28:38):
Okay? And all those things were okay with you.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
It wasn't how I envisioned it, but I guess you
can't always control, like where your heart's going to go.
There were things I discovered about him after the fact
that he kept very private that I didn't care for
but I already loved him, so I accepted those things.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
Okay, Well, before we start talking about those things, let's
talk about the evolution of the relationship from that first date.
You're still living in staff housing, right, yes, I am. Okay,
this kind of take us through the process or other
dates how the relationship evolved, that sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Okay. As soon as he stepped down from the supervisory position,
we went to San Francisco and went to a forty
nine er game. We're both forty nine or phonetics. Being
from that area, we just kind of toured the city
a little, not like a whole bunch of touring, but
we walked around Union Square. Being in that business, you

(29:44):
know other people that are in the business. So we
got a great deal on a hotel room right near
Union Square and it was a good trip. We just
continue to do that. I began to come over and
hang out on our days off while his son was there,
so he got a little more used to me. He
was very shy when he was younger. I think I started.
I came into his life when he was about four

(30:05):
three and a half four.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
Okay, was Daryl living in staff housing as well, yes, okay,
and you're working together at this time as well.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yes, he actually became a server, so we're both kind
of equal as far as our positions.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
Okay. Do you recall how big a staff there was,
and at least among the waiters and waitresses there.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Off the top of my head, I'd say maybe twenty
people as far as just the servers, okay.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Lots of women employed there as well.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
There were maybe seven other women I think.

Speaker 4 (30:58):
Were you at any point in time in terms of
Darryl's interaction with women where you were dating? Did you
get jealous? Did you get angry at him?

Speaker 3 (31:07):
I'd him? No, I didn't.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
Now you go on these dates. You're both living in
staff housing. We heard about the home you bought together.
When did you buy that home?

Speaker 3 (31:19):
We bought the house in two thousand and five. I
think we closed in June two thousand and five.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
Prior to buying that home. What happened in the we
were talking about two thousand and two. You're dating, you're
both living in staff housing. Do you live together before
you buy that house?

Speaker 3 (31:41):
No, we had separate apartments at that point. He had
moved back to Monterey, and I had Equipmentana and moved
back to moved to Honoey as well, and we were
working at separate jobs, separate apartments. Okay.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
And then this was in Monterey, yes, okay, and you
were still a Would there be a point in time
when you say that you and mister Brewer were in
a monogamous relationship whatever we would call boyfriend girlfriend? Was
there a point in time when that occurred.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yes, I don't remember the exact point in time, but
we we were either at in San Francisco on one
of the at one of the games, or we I
can't remember who. We celebrated as soon as he was
out of his supervisory role. We celebrated and decided to
make things official around that time.

Speaker 5 (32:33):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
He was a little nervous about it. He didn't he
didn't want to get married. So he made that very
clear right.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
Off the right off the bat, he told you he
didn't want to get married.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah, just he made his intentions very clear, that he
liked me and he was attracted to me, and he
was okay with being with me, but he said, I
don't see myself getting married again.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
How did that sit with you?

Speaker 3 (32:59):
I was young at the times. It didn't bother me.
I figured I still have many years left, and I
enjoyed being with him, So that's what I did. I
just enjoyed the time we had together over.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
And you said, just a few moments ago, you said,
eventually got to the point where you fell in love
with Daryl. Yes, there is there a moment in time
or is there a point in time that you can
can describe for us where you knew that was the case.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
I don't remember the case, I mean the exact moment.
It was a gradual process. My crush just became more
and more, and then I began to really love his son,
and it just we progressed in that.

Speaker 4 (33:42):
In that regard, I asked, because you said you got
to a certain point where you're in love with him,
but there were all these these flaws or things that
you had to overlook. Yeah, once you were in love
with could you describe for us what you mean by
what or what you were overlooking? At least from your.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
I discovered, after I had already developed some deep feelings
for him, that he was a smoker and he didn't
like He didn't advertise that he didn't. I never saw
him smoking, so that was the only thing. It bummed
me out about is that his health? I thought, Okay,

(34:22):
it's gonna affect his health. I mean, he didn't ever
smell like smoke. I never knew it, so he maintained
he had very good hygiene. But I was concerned about
his health. And I also he admitted to me one
day that he was an alcoholic.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
And those were the t the two big things that
were traveling to you.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yes, they were. I couldn't. I didn't never want to.
I didn't see myself being with a smoker. There's anything
wrong with it, but it wasn't the lifestyle that I wanted.
My grandparents were chained smokers for a long time and
I saw how it affected their health very negatively until
they finally quit, and I just I didn't want. I

(34:59):
don't know I want that kind of lifestyle.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
What about the alcoholism? Did that manifest itself during the relationship.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
I didn't notice it until after he really talked about it.
We would hang out, we would watch football during football season,
and we would have dinner at his house. He was
a very good cook, and I would notice after dinner
he would take some stoley out of the fridge or
of samir Na can think out of the freezer and

(35:30):
he would pour himself a drink and okay, you know whatever,
He's just relaxing. And but as the hours would go on,
I would go in back into the kitchen to throw
something away, and there was an entire empty six pack
of Seerra nevada, And so I didn't see him drink it,
and he wasn't changing his behavior. He was the same.
So I didn't assume anything really, but when he told
me about it, he was one day, he was very

(35:51):
troubled over it and was trying to overcome it.

Speaker 4 (35:57):
So despite the you said, you know you were in
love with him before you before you buy the house.
You're both living in separate apartments in Monterey, right, yes,
And where are you working?

Speaker 3 (36:13):
I was working at an Italian restaurant called Piatti, and
also California Pizza Kitchen had opened a restaurant there at
their mall, and so I helped open that restaurant and
I was tending bar there.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
And to your recollection, where it was Daryl working?

Speaker 3 (36:36):
Where was he working? I don't know why, I can't remember.
I think he was working in Pebble Beach, at a
resort in Pebble Beach at the time.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
Tell us about the thinking behind the two of you
deciding to purchase a home together.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Well, I was I saw myself eventually becoming a real
estate investor. That's what I sort of wanted to do
career wise. And I obviously the housing market was taking
off in two thousand five, so I wanted to buy
a home and sit on in pro a while. And
I didn't have I had good credit, but I didn't

(37:23):
have quite the income required for that, so I was.
I began talking to Darryl about it, and he also
really wanted to buy a home. The Monterey Peninsulas was
way out of our reach at that time, Like a
dirt lot was going for seven hundred thousand, so there
was no way we were able to purchase property in
that area at the time. Also, I should probably mention

(37:46):
he stopped drinking, otherwise I probably wouldn't have considered that.
So he's been sober since two thousand four. So we
decided to talk about buying a house together. And his
wife or his ex wife was moving to Lakita, California,
which is in Riverside County I think, and it's right

(38:08):
near Palm Desert, So we began making plans to move
to Sacramento. Since she was moving, we wanted to buy
a home, but we wanted to stay nearer to Monterey
and not come all the way down to the desert.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
You said, uh, you wanted to become involved in the
real estate market. Did you Did you do anything besides
just look at purchasing a home. Did you educate yourself
anything of that nature.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yes. I took real estate classes at Monterey Peninsula College
just to become more familiarized with the process of real estate,
real estate economics, and I don't remember all the the
other title of the class I took, but it involved
real estate. So I took those At the same time,
I was taking more semesters of Spanish and began studying

(38:58):
it and just paying more attention to real estate market
trends and looking at listings and things like that.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
Okay. One of the things we spoke about earlier was
you know, all throughout high school that you had an
interest in art, photography, different mediums of our Was that
a business that you were interested in this time or
you're more focused on the real estate business.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
It was a business that I saw myself developing, but
I wasn't actively.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
Did it purchasing the home at this point in time.
Do you remember how much that home cost?

Speaker 3 (39:40):
I believe it was three point fifty three hundred and
fifty thousand.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
And did you and mister Burger have to put down
a sizeable down payment in order to buy that house.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
I think I can't remember who put money down, but
it was one of those I think it was one.
I think it was a hundred percent financed interest only
kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
Okay, what was your financial situation at that point in
time when you were buying the house.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
I was in a pretty solid financial position. I had
a lot of money in the bank, saved well a lot.
By a lot, I mean about ten or twelve thousand,
which I think at that point in my life was
the most I'd saved ever. And I had very good credit.
Daryl had good credit. He had I think a roth

(40:33):
Ira or something that he was also you know, saving
for retirement, so he was invested as well.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
Okay, s when did you I if you can recall,
when did you move into the home. When did you
close on the house.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
I believe it was June two thousand and five that
we actually well we were actually going to move to Sacramento,
and we were looking around the area there. So we
made an offer on a house in Fair Oaks, which
is a city out right outside of Sacramento, and the
owners accepted our offer. We checked out the house, we
really liked it, and the day after our our offer

(41:09):
was accepted, the plan was we were gonna take his
son and keep him full time, and you know, he
would visit his mother in laking Toa And so the
day after our offer was accepted, she decided that she
wanted him to be to come live with her and
continue the same custody agreement. So at that point the

(41:31):
Sacramento area wasn't feasible anymore for Darryl, and I wasn't
able to buy a house without him, and of course
I wanted to be with him because we were still together.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
So just so we're clear too, she is in this story.
She is Daryl's ex wife, right, Yes, Jack's.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
Mother, Jack's mother. Okay, So I came over to his
house the day after. We're just really high on the
fact that we're going to get a house. We're excited,
and he was just hanging up the phone and he said,
I don't remember what he said, but he was sorry.

Speaker 4 (42:04):
Well, Jordy, why don't you get to why don't we
talk about the point in time then you make this
offer in this house in near Sacramento. You don't get that.
Tell us how you wind up in the house that
you wound up in.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Well, we decided that we needed to be well, he
needed to be nearer to his son. So we checked
out schools and real estate prices in Palm Desert, which
was more affordable than Laka Lakitta's, more a high end
community with more expensive property. In Palm Desert, there was
a very good school district and there were neighborhoods that

(42:43):
had houses within our price range that was that were
in that school district. So we made an offer on
a house that I had seen online that I really liked.

Speaker 4 (42:53):
Okay, so when you say really liked, was this just
from a personal perspective or also from a business perspective?

Speaker 3 (43:04):
I guess from the business perspective because it was within
our price range and a personal perspective because just judging
from the picture of the house, it looked like a
house that I could see myself living in. Of course,
we needed to see it in person first.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
But okay, so when did you close and move into
this house, this house and home does it?

Speaker 3 (43:25):
We finally moved there in the summer two thousand and five.

Speaker 4 (43:32):
And in terms of the situation, how big was this house?

Speaker 3 (43:35):
The house was I can't remember the square footage, somewhere
around fourteen hundred maybe fifteen hundred. It had three bedrooms,
two bathrooms, an open floorplan with the living room, dining area,
and kitchen. It had a pool in the back, fruit trees,
mature landscaping, palm trees up front yard.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
What was the situation in terms of the bedrooms? Did
you and Daryl share one? Describe that bit of it?

Speaker 3 (44:06):
We had? Well? I had my bed, he had his bed,
So we moved them both in and I kind of
kept the master bedroom sort of as my own space,
and he had another bedroom that he kind of like
When he came home from work, he would call it
his cave time. He needed about forty five minutes to
just decompress, and he kind of just vegged out in
front of CNN or something like that, and then after

(44:29):
that we would just sort of hang out.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
Did Jack have a bedroom as well?

Speaker 3 (44:35):
Yes, Jack had the other bedroom.

Speaker 4 (44:38):
And how often did Jack live with the two of you?

Speaker 3 (44:45):
He came on the weekends two to three days a week.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
And from your perspective, do you feel like you had
a good relationship with Jack.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Yeah, we grew closer after moving to Palm Desert. Yeah,
I did. I had a good relationship. It wasn't like
a motherly kind of role. It was more like, I guess,
having grown up with younger siblings, Jack felt more like
a little brother to me.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
In your relationship with Darryl at this point in time
in two thousand and six, when you were two thousand
and five, excuse me, when you moved in this home,
what was the status of your romantic relationship with Daryl.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
We were a boyfriend girlfriend. We were in a committed
monogamous relationship, not necessarily headed for marriage. But I was
in love with him.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
He said, not necessarily headed for marriage. Had Daryl's perspective
as you saw, did that change from that initial advisement?
I guess that he gave you a couple of years prior.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
I was not under any impression that he had changed
his mind about his position on marriage.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
Okay, want to take.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
A break here, all right, lead us into them and
we will take the noon recess at this time. Please
be back in the designated the area at one five.
Please remember the admonition have a nice lunch.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
You are excused.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Thes Arius, please take the stand, Please be seated the record.
We'll show the presence of the jury, the defendant and council.
Mister Nurma, you may continue with direct examination.

Speaker 4 (46:39):
Thank you, jannor Jody. Before we took our lunch break,
I believe we were talking about a point in time
when you and Darryl had purchased your home in Palm Desert,
all right, okay, And you had also told us that

(47:01):
Darryl's stance on not being married persisted all the way
to the point in time when you're buying this home. Right.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Yes, I think there was a time when you may
have wanted another child, he implied that, but we never
actively tried to get pregnant or anything like that.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
Okay. So given that mister Burr was not interested in
getting married, and you had, you know, your separate lives,
your separate bank accounts, that you got the mortgage together,
what was the what was the plan on purchasing this

(47:39):
home where you're going to live in it for years?

Speaker 3 (47:40):
What was what was the idea ideally if everything had
worked out and if the housing market had continued to increase,
which of course it didn't. I think June was there
it peaked for the month it peaked. Then we would
have stayed in it for two years and either rented
it out or flipped it, I mean sold it and
tried to reinvest in another house.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
So he didn't have a plan to be permanently together,
whether married or not.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
You would never Actually I hadn't hoped to maybe buy
him out on the house if possible, so that I
could own it, and then I had ideas of maybe
KR making it into a a business investment property.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
At this point in time. Uh, were you still in
love with mister Brewery?

Speaker 3 (48:26):
W you mean while we owned the house together? Yes?

Speaker 4 (48:33):
Did you want to marry? Dare were?

Speaker 3 (48:37):
I probably would have? Oh yeah, I would have married him.
I don't know that. I mean he he was pretty
clear that he didn't want to get married. So I
didn't allow myself to entertain that idea. But I could
see myself spending my life with him.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
So as it relates to this period, this this plan
that was hatched, I guess or actualized in two thousand
and five to buy a house and stayed together in
it for a couple of years and make money. Did
that plan work?

Speaker 3 (49:07):
No, it didn't work at all.

Speaker 4 (49:09):
Why not?

Speaker 3 (49:10):
What happened? The day before we signed on our house?
Our mortgage broker called and switched up the terms and
she said it really fast, and we were like, okay, whatever,
We just really wanted the house. So what we failed
to remember or consider was that in one year the
mortgage would index with the current rate, and so our

(49:32):
mortgage payment jumped from twenty two hundred a month up
to twenty eight hundred a month. And it was a
lot more than we were expecting.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
And were you still working two jobs?

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (49:45):
I was working two jobs, yes, in Palm Desert. Okay.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
So the year half of the mortgage then would have
been fourteen hundred.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
Dollars right, yes, okay?

Speaker 4 (49:58):
And that didn't include any of the other house sold.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Expenses, no, no, no other bills, just the mortgage alone.
Was that okay?

Speaker 4 (50:06):
And were you between even between these two jobs, were
you making the kind of money that you could afford
that that sort of payment.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
I think I might have been able to. I would
have been, I think living very impoverished if I would.
It didn't quite cover the mortgage I came up short every.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
Month, So how did you keep paying the mortgage?

Speaker 3 (50:35):
I was hoping to earn more money or get another job.
But what I did in the meantime, assuming that I
would be able to pay it back as I started
paying the mortgage with my credit card.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
Was the value of the home. What was happening with
with that?

Speaker 3 (50:53):
The value obviously wasn't increasing anymore. I didn't I didn't
really look into the value of the home I was
living in, but I was paying attention to sale prices
in my neighborhood, and they were going for almost a
hundred thousand dollars less at this point than what we
closed on our home for. So MM it was pretty
apparent that the market was kind of switching back to

(51:16):
a buyer's market.

Speaker 4 (51:19):
And how long were you and darrellly able to maintain
the hall with this increased uh mortgage payment.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
I can't remember exactly when it mortgaged, but it went
south pretty quickly as far as being able to maintain
the payments. I think the last solid, well the full
half of payment that I made was in November two
thousand six, and then by December I couldn't quite get
to fourteen hundred and then by January I couldn't pay home.
I think I paid even less, and I think that

(51:50):
was the left time I was able to even attempt it,
And so by then we decided we were going to
just let the property it lapse into foreclosure.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
Okay, moving back a few months to the fall of
two thousand and six, what was going on with your relationship,
mister with mister Burger? Were you still happy or describe
that for us?

Speaker 3 (52:12):
Well, I still loved him, but I think that summer
I had a lot of things just kind of reality hit.
We weren't really progressing in our relationship. I was no
longer twenty two. I was twenty six now, so I
began to question, you know, where I was going with
my life. Was I gonna have a family with this person?

(52:34):
And so it really didn't seem that way. And at
the time, my goal was marriage and children at least someday,
and that's not something you can just go out and get.
Something you have to kind of invest time in. And
so at age twenty six, I was more than halfway
through my twenties and I wanted to begin focusing more
on that. But we had the house together, so I

(52:54):
wasn't sure how that was gonna work. So I became,
I guess a little more enchanted with the relationship. He
wasn't He wasn't really focused on it. He had a
lot of stress going on with his life and his
bills and his son and his ex wife and that
kind of thing. So we just had we were going
in different directions with different visions for our futures.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
You mentioned personally the things you wanted on a personal level,
but you had also talked about this home purchase being
a business venture for you. Obviously one that's that wasn't
doing so well right, Yes, did you have other ideas
in mind with what you wanted to do with your

(53:42):
life from a professional.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
Standpoint, Well, I was looking for other ways to get
on my feet financially, so that I could so that
I can well, so that I could invest in real estate,
which was going to be a main form of my income,
so I could do other things that I enjoy, which
would also be forms of income, such as photography. And

(54:03):
I didn't see myself yet making a career out of art,
but it was more a hobby than a career goal.
But possibly that, and I wanted to get my art
into galleries. I wanted to. I enjoyed the weddings that
I had done at Montana, but I enjoyed photography more

(54:24):
than coordinating them. So I wanted to become a wedding
photographer also.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
Now, before we go any further into some of your ventures,
we talked about a little bit throughout the course of
your life. Did you call it your spiritual or religious thinking?
You talked about your true prior boyfriends at this point
in time, in the fall of two thousand and six.

(54:54):
Where was your thinking spiritually religiously.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
At that time? I was. I considered myself very open
minded spiritually as far as religions go. I find good
things in all kinds of religions and truths in all
religions or things that resonate with me. And so I
didn't have a particular or specific religion that I was
identified with or that I was that I considered to

(55:21):
be my religion. It was kind of open and broad,
but I still considered myself spiritual.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
Okay, Now, you mentioned looking for a financial mechanism, if
you will, to allow you to make money while you
worked on your art and your photography, that sort of thing, right, Yes,
did you find one of those, or what you thought
was one of those.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Yes. The year before I went to work at California
Pizza Kitchen one day and my manager asked me where
I saw myself in five years, and the first thought
that jumped in my mind was real estates, something involving
real estate. I think I mentioned that he said he
was gonna be retired, which was I thought was kind
of a bold statement, cause he's about my age. And

(56:10):
so he gave me some information and it was the
company that was then called pre Paid Legal. I think
there was a magazine and a DVD, and he was
really excited about it, and I thought, okay, Well, he
he asked me to look at it, review it, and
I told him I would, but it wasn't anything that
really got me excited. And initially I took it. I
mean that day at work, I put it next to

(56:32):
one of the computer terminals and I forgot about it,
and it stayed at work for several weeks, almost a
month before I remember to finally take it home.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
Oh, really, did you watch that DVD?

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Not At that point I took it home. I never
looked at it, well, not never, I didn't look at
it for a long time. It kind of it went
into a closet and just a storage closet, and about
six months later, maybe five months later, I was cleaning
it out, and I was just cleaning things out and
I came across the DVD and I wanted to throw
it away, but I didn't wanna throw it away before

(57:06):
I at least knew what was on it, So I
stopped what I was doing. I popped it into the
DVD player and sat down and just gave it my
attention for that time so that I could at least
throw it away knowing that I knew it was on
it before I threw it away, and I just liked
what I saw, and so I called him back, and
him back was the person who gave it to me.
I called him back. He said he wasn't in the

(57:29):
business anymore, but he could refer me to his upline,
and so I got his number, and then I called
that guy and he told me he wasn't in the
business anymore, but that he would still get me some
more material on it. And so I waited a few
days and didn't hear back from him. So I finally
just went to Prepaid Legal's website and submitted my informations

(57:50):
for to get more information about it. I think I
was able to sign up on the webs now I don't.
I don't think I signed up then, but I submitted
my information and lady named Michelle finally called me back.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
And this lady named Michelle that called you back, did
you know her? No?

Speaker 3 (58:08):
Call? Not priory?

Speaker 4 (58:11):
Was this someone who was in your and you were
in all desert at the time that you made this call?

Speaker 3 (58:16):
Right? Yes?

Speaker 4 (58:17):
Okay? And was she? And was she this Michelle? Was
she in your area? She was?

Speaker 3 (58:25):
I think the what happens is when you submit information,
at least this is how it used to be, you
submit your phone number or maybe by zip code or
phone number. The referral goes to somebody within your area.
So she's in the same area code as I am,
but a different city. She lived in Hemmet.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
Okay, did you meet with her? Tell us how she
called me?

Speaker 3 (58:47):
She was actually at one of the conventions. It was
March two thousand and six that I went on to
the computer and during a break she got she checked
her email, and she got noticed of my information and
called me right away and told me where to go
to sign up. So I went online and I signed up,
and when she came back from convention, we decided to
meet at a restaurant. I think it was in Palm

(59:08):
Desert or somewhere halfway.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
Well, let's let's let's before you get too far. What
do you mean by you signed up?

Speaker 3 (59:15):
I didn't know what that meant at the time, but
she just instructed me to go online, purchase the membership,
and then also pay the fee to become an independent
associate with the company.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
Okay, so you bought their product and then you pay
an additional fee to sell the product. Yes, right, that's
what being an associate means, to be able to sell
the product. Yes, okay, all right, and why was it

(59:48):
that you were interested at this point in time of
becoming an associate at this company?

Speaker 3 (59:57):
I liked what I saw on the DVD. It was well,
it was resented very well by two executives in the
company that have had a lot of success and a
very eloquent and they were able to explain it in
very simple terms, with simple math, and it just seemed
like something that was that I might have success with.

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
Okay, So you meet this individual and are you then
involved in selling the product? As well, or how do
you get involved in that?

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Well, she sent me away with tons of supplies, DVDs
to pass out to other people, magazines, marketing materials, and
I really didn't do anything with it. I just took
it home and it sat there and collected.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
Dust for a while and home. Are you still living
with mister Brewer at that time?

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
And were you still in a boyfriend girlfriend type relationship
at that time?

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Yes? Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
And I keep saying at that time, do you know
about what month and year we're talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Well, I was still in March two thousand and six
at this time when I took things home, and like
end of March because she was at the convention and
then she came back.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
So these materials they you're telling us they sit. Were
you actively trying just to sell memberships? What were you
doing in regards to rebail?

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Not? At that point she had called me. In the summer,
there was a team event at Daniel summ at Utah,
and it was scheduled at the beginning of July that year,
and I was scheduled to go to my cousin's wedding
and I wanted to build my wedding portfolio so that
was much more important to me, obviously, and to be

(01:01:37):
with my family for that event. So I didn't go
to that. I didn't go to the company event that
she invited me to, but I went to my cousin's wedding.
And then the summer went by, and she called me
in early August and asked if I had bought my
ticket for the convention which occurred in September, and I
told her I had not, and she was very adamant

(01:01:57):
that I go, and she told me, you know, you
can carp with us. It's Las Vegas. It's not of
our drive, so kind of at herbiehest, I bought the
ticket reluctantly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
In September two thousand and six, were you still you
talked about working two different jobs to pay the mortgage,
that sort of thing. Was that going on it? September
of two thousand and six, still.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Yes, I was going to go back to work at Cuisto.
They closed for the summer for a few months and
the owners leave the desert. They go up to Monterey actually,
and then it reopens mid September or maybe it's early
septem whenever school starts there. Because he had children, so

(01:02:43):
around that time at the restaurant reopens and I still
had my position.

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
Okay, you also talked earlier. I guess about the time
that you purchased the house, you had ten to twelve
thousand dollars in the bank. Was that money still in
the bank and sept Tember in two thousand and six, No,
that money was long gone. Okay, So what is your
financial situation in September two thousand and six.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
It's not it's paycheck to paycheck struggling. I mean, we're
not out on the street or anything. But I gave
up all of the extra things that I liked, you know, Starbucks,
just things like that, just little things that would chip
away at your monthly income. I was very it was.
Everything was very sparse. It's whatever we could make ends meet.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
And your relationship with mister Brewer, is this still going
fine or are we still at this dead end that
you were describing earlier.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
It was something I sort of dreaded because I knew
it wasn't going to last, but we hadn't discussed it.
I don't know where he was with things. I figured
he was kind of in the same realm. I didn't
realize this as deep for me, as he said when
he was on the stand. We had that conversation about
a year later, about eight months afterward, or he told

(01:04:10):
me that, which surprised me. I just kind of figured
he was in another place and I was in another place.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
Okay. So you purchased this ticket for this convention and
this was in Las Vegas, Yes, okay. Was there a
specific location for this event?

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Yes, it was held at the MGM Grand.

Speaker 4 (01:04:35):
So do you then did you go to this convention? Yes? Okay?
And how did you get there?

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
I drove to Himett and parked my car at Michelle's
house and we took her. She had a brand new
Honda Cord so it was real spacious, and she and
Leonora and I all drove to the three of us
carpooled to Las Vegas.

Speaker 4 (01:04:55):
Okay, And you mentioned this first of Leonor Is this
was this a friend of yours or stranger to you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
At the time she became a friend, That was the
first side I'd met her. And she was also a
recruit of me.

Speaker 4 (01:05:06):
So you go off to Las Vegas and these people
are virtually strangers to you. Is that what I'm hearing?

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Michelle and I would talk occasionally in text. I was
comfortable around her. She was almost my mother's age, maybe
slightly younger, So I was comfortable around her, but I
didn't know her very well.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
And to this point in time, it sounds like you
hadn't been active in the company at all. Is that
is that accurate other than buying a membership.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Yeah, that's true. I wasn't really looking forward to going,
but I figured I should give it an honest shot.

Speaker 4 (01:05:39):
Okay, did you know anyone else at this that was
going to be at this convention besides your two companions?
I'm sorry, did you know anyone else at this convention
besides the people you were traveling there with?

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
No one?

Speaker 4 (01:05:56):
Okay, well tell me about tell us about what happened
when you arrived there.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
When we arrived, we checked in, there was just a
swarm of people everywhere with all their luggage. There were
all other associates that were checking in. There were like,
it's a convention of about I think at the time
there were were about twelve thousand people. So it's in
Canada and the US, so all kinds of people from
all different walks of life descend onto the MGM Grand

(01:06:28):
for this convention and not everyone stays at the MGM Grand,
but everyone stays around in Las Vegas, so there were
a lot of people checking in. We got to our room,
we just kind of relaxed for a little while and
walked around, got lunch, and then later got dinner.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
You said our room, what was the accommodations? Were sharing
it with these two ladies?

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
Okay? And your mom was also.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
I can't remember.

Speaker 4 (01:06:55):
I think there were four of us right now. Did
you get there on the day that can began or
were you there earlier than the convention?

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
We came. Well, the convention is on a Friday and Saturday,
and we showed up on Wednesday night.

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
Okay? And what what? What to your understanding anyway? What
were you to do at convention? Were you attending classes,
attending meetings? What? What was your purpose in being there?

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
I didn't understand. I didn't understand what. I didn't know
what to expect. I'd never been there before. She just
told me, it's gonna be a great event. It's going
to get you fired up. I had never attended a convention,
not that convention, so I didn't really know it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:38):
And how long were you going to be there?

Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
Well? We were going to leave Sunday, so Friday's total.

Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
Okay, is that when the convention ended?

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
No? That My understanding was that it went all day
Friday all day Saturday, and there were smaller, uh team
events outside of those. Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:07:59):
And was there a particular team that you were to
be involved with at this convention?

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
Michelle was on Team Freedom, so when she recruited me,
that made me part of Team Freedom. No, I'm sorry,
I take that back. It was Team Renew. Sorry, there's
a lot of different teams in the company. Team Renew,
I think was the name.

Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
Okay, And uh, tell us about uh what happened? You
said you you went in your room, you relax. What
did you do next?

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
We just wandered around a little. We went out to
the swimming pool. There were a lot of people there.
I didn't bring a bathing suit. I didn't even think
we were wa I was thinking business, So I felt
I don't know, it was a hundred degrees and everyone
was out in bikinis, hanging out bathing suits, splashing around.
So I just kind of I felt awkward. I was

(01:08:52):
just standing there in my business clothes. You know, I
was getting introduced to a lot of people. I couldn't
really keep track of everyone. There were a lot of names.

Speaker 4 (01:08:59):
And you say you had another, uh whole another day
before the convention started.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
Yes, there was Thursday and then on Friday. It was
when the convention started.

Speaker 4 (01:09:11):
So what did you do on Thursday?

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
On Thursday? Michelle Lenor and I just went. I don't
remember the whole day, but I remember we were at
We got dinner at Applebe's across town. We just were
having dinner. We just killed time, just doing things morning
around town.

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
Were you meeting more associates though as well?

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
Yeah, before we went, before we left the MGM Grand
we would We walked around and met more people and
I was introduced to more people that she knew.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
So there weren't any meetings or anything on Thursday? Is
that right?

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Not? I didn't wasn't aware of any, but I later
later in that evening, I learned that there was an
ag a banquet that occurs the night before convention, and
that's the executive director.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
While you were at this convention, did you ever meet
an individual by the name of Travis Alexander. Yes, describe
for us where you were and what was going on
when you met Travits Alexander.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
On Wednesday night, this would be early September two thousand
and six, Michelle and I, Michelle Lenore and I were
with her mother and I think two other associates and
we were all sitting around this round table at the
Rainforest Cafe, which is inside the casino in the hotel.

(01:10:35):
We were having dinner, and we were finishing up dinner,
paid our check, and we left. We didn't leave the
Rainforest Cafe. We sort of stayed in this kind of
lobby area. I don't know how it was. We were
right outside the entrance, still indoors, and uh, there's just
tons of people everywhere. A lot of them are prepaid
legal business associates. So I'm just I'm staying. I'm staying

(01:10:57):
close to Michelle cause she's the only person I really know,
and I'm meeting other people that are on my team,
and she introduces me to people that are in my
upline and things like that. And there was just a
crowd of people everywhere, and out of the corner of
my eye saw somebody walking toward me, kind of fast paced,
and I noticed it was a guy, and I thought

(01:11:21):
thought he was going somewhere because he looked like he
had a purpose. So I didn't stepped out of the
way cause I thought he needed to walk past me.
But he stopped right in front of me and stuck
his hand out and introduced himself.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
And was that Travis?

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:11:40):
What happened from that point in time?

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
I shook his hand and tried to just log the
name because there were a lot of people that I
was meeting that weekend. So we just kind of milled
around the outside of the Rainforest Cafe a little longer,
and then our group began to wander throughout the Xino,
just passed restaurants and sports bars and the slot machines

(01:12:04):
and all that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
And you say, your group, Does that mean the people
you went to the restaurant with. Yes, And just so
we're clear, mister Alexander wasn't part of your the uh
lunch you had at dinner excuse me, at the Rainforest Cafe.

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
No, he wasn't.

Speaker 4 (01:12:20):
Uh did he uh? Then follow your group around the
around the MGM.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
He made it a point to walk with us. He's
also on He was also on Team Renew but more
like latterly well, he was obviously higher as it executive
director as far as position in the company, but so
he knew all these people, he had met them all before.
But as we wandered throughout the casino, he made it
a point to walk next to me and keep me

(01:12:48):
engaged in conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:12:50):
Okay, was this late in the evening when this was
going on or it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
Was dark out? I think, but I don't recall it
being very late.

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
How did uh you part company with mister Alexander that evening?

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
Well, after wandering around, we kind of wandered back to
the lobby where that there's a big golden lion statue,
and we took pictures there with some people, and then
after a while I kind of noticed that I had
been ignoring everyone else in the group and just he
and I were talking, talking, talking, and at one point
there was a lull in the conversation and it kind

(01:13:30):
of felt like everyone was staring at us, so it
was a little awkward, so I sort of began to
talk to other people and we sorry, no, I'll go
ahead and tell Okay. I don't remember how we parted,
but just said goodbye, and Michelle Leonora and I went
back to our hotel room, and I didn't really think
anything of that. Meeting, but I think it was Leonora

(01:13:53):
pointed out that she thought maybe he liked me, which
made me think that differently. I guess about reflecting on
our conversation, cause I didn't get that vibe from him.

Speaker 4 (01:14:04):
Correct. Did you speak after you party company? Did you
speak to mister Alexander again that night?

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
Not that night? No?

Speaker 4 (01:14:15):
When did you next speak to mister Alexander?

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
Well, while Leonora and Michelle and I were at Applebee's
having dinner, Michelle's phone ring and she answered it, and
I only heard her half of the conversation, and then
she hung up and asked me and just told me
that Travis wants to know if I would go to
the executive director banquet with him.

Speaker 4 (01:14:38):
And we heard a little bit about this earlier. But
from your perspective at least, perhaps I should say it
this way your perspective at the time, did you even
know what an executive director's banquet was?

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
No? When Michelle mentioned it, that was the first I
heard about it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:56):
And what did you come to understand that it was?

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
Eventually I came to understand that it's it's kind of
a It's a banquet where everyone dresses up, the women
are dressed to the nines. Men are in te usually
in tuxedos. It's kind of an upscale banquet with multiple courses,
and generally there are speeches and things that other people

(01:15:22):
give at the banquet while you're dining.

Speaker 4 (01:15:26):
Okay, now, once this invitation came to you, let let
me ask, were you, uh, in any way prepared to
attend such a a banquet?

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
No? I I turned him down and said I didn't.
I didn't wanna go because I didn't once I found
out that it was, you know, something where you have
to dress up for I I didn't bring anything for that,
so I said, thinks anyway, but no thanks, because I didn't.
We were on the other side of Las Vegas. The
banquet started in less than an hour, and I just
didn't see how I could get a dress get back

(01:16:00):
rush hour traffic all in that span of time.

Speaker 4 (01:16:03):
So and this would have been Thursday evening, Yes, this
was Thursday night. Okay, did you end up attending that bank? Uet?

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
I did.

Speaker 4 (01:16:14):
Explain to us how you went from the point in
time when you said I don't have anything to wear.
It's across town, it's in an hour, to actually attending
the bank. But how did that happen?

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
Well, after I said I didn't. After I said no,
Michelle was very She encouraged me. She said it would
be a very good experience for me. There are lots
of executives that go that you should meet. I think
her idea was to get me inspired to become more
active in the company and get me more excited about

(01:16:47):
the company. And both Laura and Michelle were very encouraging,
saying that you really should go. This is a very
good opportunity. Not everyone gets this opportunity. So I kind
of just said, okay, well, we got to find some
for me to wear. So we ran around town. I
think Coals was near Applebee's. I didn't know if there
were any suitable dresses at that store, but we went

(01:17:08):
in there, grabbed a few things off the rack, tried
'em on. Nothing was really working out, so I was
thinking I was probably gonna call him back. Well, actually
I did call him right before that and said, Okay,
I don't have a dress, but i'm'na look for one
and i'll let you know. And so I was in
the dressing room at Coals by that point. He had
my cell phone number, and so he called me and said, did.

Speaker 4 (01:17:32):
You did you win at buying him in a dress
at Coals? No? Did you end up obtaining a dress? Uh?
To wear to this back lire?

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Yes? His friend packed an extra dress and she was
the same size as me, and I guess she heard
about his predicament and said that I could wear that dress.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
Did you find it strange, Uh, that mister Alexander was
asking you to this banquet after all the meeting him
the day before.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
I didn't really think of it as strange. I think
the whole week was kind of strange. It wasn't really
what I was accustomed to, so I was just going
with the flow.

Speaker 4 (01:18:18):
Okay, So tell us how you obtained this dress and
what happens as you're going from Cole's to the banquet.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
After realised there was a dress at the hotel, we
dropped everything at Cole's, hopped in the car and got
on the freeway and it was very slow traffic, but
we just made it all the way back to the
MGM Grand and we rushed up to the hotel room
where the dress was. I changed and Travis might. Travis

(01:18:54):
met me there, met Michelle and I there, and we
walked across the complex over to the ballroom where the
bank with Paul was being helped. I'm sorry where the
bank was being helped in the ballroom?

Speaker 4 (01:19:05):
Whose dress was it that you were borrowing.

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
His friend's wife, Sky Hughes.

Speaker 4 (01:19:14):
And had you know miss Hughes prior to coming to
her room and borrowing her dress?

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
No, I had not met her.

Speaker 4 (01:19:22):
And you mentioned his friend, Chris Hughes, being Sky's husband.
Had you met Chris Hughes prior to this event?

Speaker 3 (01:19:32):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:19:34):
When you went to let me ask you, this was
mister Alexander there in the room when you changed and
got ready.

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
He might I think he showed up. I was in
the bathroom changing.

Speaker 4 (01:19:46):
Tell us what this banquet was like?

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
It was? It was, It was nice. I was somewhat
accustomed to that level of dining because of my serving experience,
but I was always a server, not the guest, so
and I was very familiar with just how the course
is run and you know, table etiquette and that sort
of thing. So that was not really it didn't move

(01:20:13):
me a lot. But what was interesting was all of
these people that were there and how successful they all were,
and that kind of opened my eyes to the reality
that you really can be successful in this company, and
it's not just imply by night company or any kind
of get rich quick scheme.

Speaker 4 (01:20:29):
Or things like that, any kind of what was that, like.

Speaker 3 (01:20:33):
A get rich quick scheme? That's not what it was. Okay,
it was legitimate.

Speaker 4 (01:20:38):
It sounds to me like then that you were to
some degree getting intoxicated by the success you were saying.
Is that fair to say?

Speaker 3 (01:20:47):
I don't know if intoxicated would quite be right, but
it definitely made a big impression on me.

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
Impression how it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:57):
Stuck out in my mind. Travis also challenged me. He said,
every personally take.

Speaker 4 (01:21:00):
To the executives exact. Okay, yeah, miss Arius. Did people
at this banquet encourage you to become more involved in
prepaid legal.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:21:25):
Was mister Alexander one of those individuals that encouraged you?

Speaker 3 (01:21:28):
Yes, he encouraged me the most of everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:21:31):
Okay, tell us in terms of you talked about the
dining and things of that nature. Did you have any
idea when you went to this banquet or did you
learn during the course of this banquet?

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:21:48):
What an executive director man in terms of income level?

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
I had an idea there were people there giving their
their called ring speeches. That means that they earned one
hundred thousand dollars within a one year period. So when
you do that, you earn a ring to symbolize that
or to you know, show that. So that's a huge
milestone in the company that a lot of people strive for.

(01:22:19):
Travis did not have his ring. He came close. At
one point he said he made almost eighty grant. Sorry
I couldn't hear the last statements. Restate the.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
Phone to your right, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
May perceived.

Speaker 4 (01:22:43):
To your understanding, how did mister Alexander have the ability
to invite me to this executive director's banquet.

Speaker 3 (01:22:52):
He wouldn't have to be an executive director to have tickets,
so that meant that he qualified for that position.

Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
And to your understanding, what did qualifying to that position mean?

Speaker 3 (01:23:05):
It meant that he had a certain level of production
in the company as far as selling memberships. I believe
that was my understanding of it.

Speaker 4 (01:23:15):
Okay, But you also mentioned something about a ring. To
your understanding, at this banquet was a something different than
being an executive director.

Speaker 3 (01:23:27):
Yes, because you can be an executive director and still
not be earning one hundred thousand dollars or actually anywhere
near That is my understanding.

Speaker 4 (01:23:36):
Now, okay, did mister Alexander give a speech at this banquet?

Speaker 3 (01:23:44):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:23:45):
Did other people that he was with or people that
he knew? Did they make speeches at this banquet?

Speaker 3 (01:23:51):
People made speeches, and he may have known them, but
I don't know what their relationship was to him.

Speaker 4 (01:23:57):
The level of income of the people in the room,
it seemed like from what mister seriously told us, that
was pretty well known. Is that correct? Yes, you seriously
really united stuff. We said the question, did you have
an understanding or was there any publications that talked about

(01:24:22):
how much money these people were making?

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
Yes, some of the people are known to Well, you
get a ring when you earn one hundred thousand dollars.
When your income reaches two hundred and fifty thousand dollars,
to get a diamond and embedded in the ring. When
your income reaches five hundred thousand dollars, you get two diamonds,
and when your income reaches a million dollars a year,
you get three diamonds. So, and then there are people
who earn beyond the million dollar mark. I don't know

(01:24:46):
if there is any kind of outward symbol for that.
Or not.

Speaker 4 (01:24:51):
Okay, but you were learning this while you were president
at this banquet, right, all these figures of these these
income figures.

Speaker 3 (01:24:58):
Yes, people were mentioning their lifestyle and their speeches that's
incorporated their lifestyle, how things changed, how they struggled, or
how they're having success now, and they throw out numbers.

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
Did that speak to you? It was in terms of
your current situation or your situation as it relates to
September two thousand six. Yes, let's talk about that a
little bit. What sorts of in general, not specifically what
they said, but what sort of uh, what sort of

(01:25:33):
statements did they make about the lifestyle in terms of
with prepaid legal how long it took to make money
though their lifestyle.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
They no longer struggled, was the impression that I got.
They no longer worried about paying the bills, They no
longer worried about where their money would come from. They
were more concerned with things of a higher nature. I
guess you could say, like, uh, philanthropy, or they could

(01:26:08):
turn around and blessed now that they've been blessed, and
constructive ways they could now use their income to better society.

Speaker 4 (01:26:18):
And that was something that also spoke to you, Yes,
very much. After this banquet, Uh, what did you did?
You and mister Alexander stayed together?

Speaker 3 (01:26:32):
After the banquet we left the banquet, uh room or
the It was like a big ballroom, and everyone sort
of mills around outside and takes pictures with people. And
so Travis took me around to a few different executives
and I got my picture taken with a bunch of
people and him, and we just did that and after

(01:26:53):
that I changed out of well, we went back to
the hotel room and I changed out of addressing back
into regular clothes.

Speaker 4 (01:26:58):
Okay, during without telling me specifically what he said? During
this evening with mister Alexander, did you get the sense
that he had a romantic interest in you?

Speaker 3 (01:27:15):
Not really, He wasn't really flirting with me. He wasn't
giving off that bike. I did get the impression that
he was trying to impress me because he was talking
about income and but he was talking to the guy
next to him, but he was saying it very loud,
So I got that impression, but not that he was
trying to like Woomby, if that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (01:27:37):
Okay, during that evening, did you learn anything else about
mister Alexander, where he lived, his his family, his work. Yesterday?
Did you learn things like that about him?

Speaker 3 (01:27:51):
He didn't talk about his family, but the night before
he talked about he stettied from Riverside.

Speaker 4 (01:27:58):
I'm sorry I didn't hear that that he.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
Was from Riverside.

Speaker 4 (01:28:01):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
He told me he was a forty nine Ers fan,
which I kind of didn't believe because he was from
southern California and most people like the Chargers in that area.
But it had to do with Steve Young, I guess
it was a member of the church and a very
good quarterback. He asked me about the UFC if I
was familiar with it. That was an interest he had,

(01:28:23):
and I was familiar with it somewhat.

Speaker 4 (01:28:27):
In UFC, is that an acronym for something?

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
Yes, it's an acronym for Ultimate Fighting Championship.

Speaker 4 (01:28:35):
And is that what we would call cage fighting?

Speaker 3 (01:28:38):
Yes, cage fighting no holds part.

Speaker 4 (01:28:41):
Oh, and it sounds like you mentioned that you mentioned
the church. Did he convey his faith to you that evening?

Speaker 3 (01:28:52):
Not that evening we went to convention on Friday. He
had invited me to sit down on the floor where
the executive director sits a bunch of chair set ups.
It's closer to the stage instead of a stadium seating.

Speaker 4 (01:29:03):
And just so we're clear, this is the Is this
the day after the banquet? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
Yes? This is the Friday morning. I had a ticket
which was several seats up. It was with Michelle, and
I got a text message from him that said, there's
an open seat down here if you want to sit
closer to the stage.

Speaker 4 (01:29:21):
Okay, And from your understanding, this would be an area
you sound like what you were telling us as an
area that you wouldn't otherwise be able to sit. Is that?

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
Yes, you needed a special pass to get into that area.

Speaker 4 (01:29:36):
Okay? And do you know why?

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
It's reserved for executive directors only? So you have to
be qualified for that position in order to get into
that area.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:29:48):
And this and I'm sorry, what did you call this?
H you said it was a meeting or what was
this that friday?

Speaker 3 (01:29:55):
It was? I guess I would call them sessions like
there's a morning session in an afternoon session.

Speaker 4 (01:30:00):
Okay. And for those of us who haven't been to
one of these sessions with prepaid legal what is this? Uh? Involved?
Was there a was there a huge number of people.

Speaker 3 (01:30:14):
Yes, it fills up. It's it's a big stadium. I
don't know how big, maybe football size, maybe not quite
that big, but it's pretty huge.

Speaker 4 (01:30:26):
Or did just so clear We're not talking the size.

Speaker 3 (01:30:28):
Of a football stadium, right, No, but it holds a
lot of It holds over well over ten thousand. I
think it can hold like fifteen thousand people.

Speaker 4 (01:30:35):
Okay, alright with the floor seat, Okay, so please please
go on.

Speaker 3 (01:30:42):
So that was building up. I decided to make my
way down. I don't remember how I got there. I
think you met me at the area and took me
over to where the seat was, and I went and
sat down there. And the event starts with the national
anthem and then the Canadian national anthem because represent the
companies in both countries, and then just different things get started.

(01:31:06):
There's it's kind of mixed up. There's training entertainment, so
I mean, it's like it's not entertainment, but it's there's speeches.
I think they point they use the term entertainment cause
it's kind of it's entertaining, traintment, training enter Do you
know what I'm saying? It's entertaining training. I guess you
could say Anyway, we just looked at these I mean

(01:31:30):
I just watched these speeches and took notes in my
journal and took pictures that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (01:31:40):
What were this? And I'm not even gonna try to
repeat the work because I'm sure I'll butcher it. But
this entertainment slash training? What was that? From your perspective?
Designed to do?

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
It's designed to, well, you get more training. Sometimes there
are new products that they roll out and they train
on that. But at the same time, it is designed
to not be boring. Also, it's something that you usually
rivetted to. There's a lot of note taking. Some people
come out and just rally up the crowd. They're very

(01:32:18):
good speakers. They have a lot of energy. The ring
speeches that were heard at the night before also set
on stage again so that all the associates that were
unable to attend the banquet also get to hear those speeches.
They're generally very inspiring because they're success stories.

Speaker 4 (01:32:36):
Okay, and is this this meeting in this large facility.
Is this something that lasts all day?

Speaker 3 (01:32:46):
Yes, we start I don't remember the time that we
start somewhat mid to early morning, going till lunch break.
For lunch and then come back in the afternoon until
late afternoon.

Speaker 4 (01:32:58):
Okay, did you have lunch with mister Alexander?

Speaker 3 (01:33:02):
No? That day I didn't. I went to get sushi
with with Michelle.

Speaker 5 (01:33:07):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:33:10):
When you go back to this meeting, do you then
return your seat near miss Alexander?

Speaker 3 (01:33:15):
Yes, I think I think he invited me one more time.
So then after that I just stayed in that seat
for the rest of the convention.

Speaker 4 (01:33:24):
Did the entire convention said, the rest of the convention.
Did the entire convention take place in this one large room?

Speaker 3 (01:33:30):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:33:31):
Okay, so you spent the entire two days sitting next
to him at this convention.

Speaker 3 (01:33:38):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:33:40):
Did you have dinner with him that that that? What
would be I guess Friday night?

Speaker 3 (01:33:45):
Not Friday night, No, we didn't. I don't really remember
Friday night.

Speaker 4 (01:33:49):
Actually, Okay, tell us about Saturday.

Speaker 3 (01:33:54):
Okay, Saturday, I was again getting lunch with Michelle, and
we start texting each other sort of back and forth.
By this point, I was pretty it was pretty clear
that he liked me more than friends. Not he wasn't
being overtly flirtatious, but he was being very friendly, and

(01:34:15):
I just I decided that well, Michelle had told him
that I had a boyfriend. Did you have a boyfriend
at the time, Yes, so I was still with Daryl.

Speaker 4 (01:34:25):
Did you know, to your understanding, was mister Alexander aware
of the fact that you had a boyfriend?

Speaker 3 (01:34:35):
Yes, overruled you me as Yes, he was aware.

Speaker 4 (01:34:42):
And you were just telling us that you got a
sense of mister Alexander having an interest in you that
wasn't strictly business right, Yes, And you mentioned you were
getting that sense. What things did he do? Uh? To

(01:35:05):
give you that sense?

Speaker 3 (01:35:08):
He was texting me after the banquet, he said really
nice things. You're a great girl. Okay, sorry, I.

Speaker 4 (01:35:18):
Offered for the truth of the matter a sort. It's
the fact that the listener.

Speaker 3 (01:35:23):
Overy do may continue. He was friendlier and friendlier, but
not inappropriate. But after I learned that he already knew
had a boyfriend and he continued to act that way,
I thought it would be I thought I needed to
pull him aside and tell him that I have a
boyfriend so that he didn't get the wrong impression from me.

Speaker 4 (01:35:47):
Okay, And did you do that?

Speaker 3 (01:35:49):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:35:51):
And when was that?

Speaker 3 (01:35:54):
That was Saturday night? We did have dinner at the
Rainforest cafe again, the whole team renew met. They reserved
the upper floor of the Rainforest Cafe. We all had
dinner there and then hung out in the food court
after that and just talked for a long time, and
then we went I told I texted him earlier and

(01:36:16):
said I'd like to talk to you later.

Speaker 4 (01:36:20):
She's sitting cluttering, no reprit what motivated you to or
I should have said that, how did you arrange this
conversation with mister Alexander.

Speaker 3 (01:36:32):
I indicated that I would like to talk to him
when the time was appropriate alone, and he said okay.
So we were hanging out in the food court and
he asked me, do you wanna go for a walk?
And I said, I thought this would be my opportunity
to talk to him. So we started going for a
walk around the casino. It was very late, it was
about one o'clock in the morning at that point, and

(01:36:54):
we started wandering near the stores. They're all closed at
that point, so there are plenty of people over in
the casino area where all the soft machines are, but
this end of the building was kind of empty. So
as we walked, I explained to him that I had
a boyfriend and I told him I liked him, but
I'm in a relationship. And I explained a little bit

(01:37:16):
about the state of my relationship. I didn't go into
a lot of detail.

Speaker 4 (01:37:21):
I just what what do you mean by you to
explain to him the state of your relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:37:28):
I didn't go into a lot of detail. I just said,
I'm not sure where it's going, but he's my boyfriend.
That's what I said. I mean, I'm there. I'm monogamous,
so I'm with Daryl, I'm with Darryl. I'm not with anybody.

Speaker 4 (01:37:41):
M Did he respond in any way to what you
were saying.

Speaker 3 (01:37:47):
He smiled, and he was aware that that's what I was. Well,
he assumed that's what I was going to talk to
him about. And so at that point it was clear,
I thought, and I was able to relax a little
more and just be friends. And so we found a
park bench. It was kind of like a park bench

(01:38:08):
against a wall at that end of the building, and
we sat down and ended up talking for a few
more hours, just about everything.

Speaker 4 (01:38:18):
Did he end up commenting on the what you should
do regarding your current relationship?

Speaker 3 (01:38:25):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:38:29):
Did he advise you that you shouldn't settle for what
you were dealing.

Speaker 3 (01:38:36):
With over worldly means for yes or no?

Speaker 4 (01:38:40):
Yes, While you were out on this bench, was this outside.

Speaker 3 (01:38:48):
Or inside indoors?

Speaker 4 (01:38:51):
And you said, the two of you sat and spoke
for a couple hours.

Speaker 3 (01:38:55):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:38:56):
Did you talk about religion or faith during that period
of time?

Speaker 3 (01:39:03):
Yes, the topic did turn to religion.

Speaker 4 (01:39:08):
Did he share with you his membership in the Mormon Church?

Speaker 3 (01:39:14):
Yes, I knew that he was Mormon at that point.
Michelle said it as if to warn me, like it
should be a warning. I didn't know what that meant
because I wasn't familiar with the Mormon Church. I didn't know.
I'd just assumed that it was another Christian denomination like
any other, and I didn't really I mean, I've heard
about Mormonism over the years. Mormonism is the butt of

(01:39:37):
a lot of jokes on South Park, and some people
just seem very antagonistic toward Mormon's I didn't understand why
you have a question sustained.

Speaker 4 (01:39:48):
Did you have concerns about being around mister Alexander because
of his membership or or practice of the Mormon faith.

Speaker 2 (01:39:57):
No, not at all.

Speaker 3 (01:39:58):
Someone's religion wouldn't affect that.

Speaker 4 (01:40:01):
Did he express a desire for you to learn more about.

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
His No, he'd not, he implied it, but he didn't openly.

Speaker 4 (01:40:14):
Start pro during this conversation at the bench in the
in the MGM. Did he ever attempt to kiss you?

Speaker 3 (01:40:26):
Not there on the bench.

Speaker 4 (01:40:27):
Now, But he did that night.

Speaker 3 (01:40:33):
He leaned in very close as if he wanted to
kiss me. Then he was licking his lips and he
was staring at my lips and like he wanted to
kiss me, but he didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:40:45):
And where did this occur?

Speaker 3 (01:40:46):
On the elevator?

Speaker 4 (01:40:50):
How close to you did he get?

Speaker 3 (01:40:53):
Well, we got into the elevator and she was asked,
how close did you get?

Speaker 4 (01:41:00):
How close did he get? Do you?

Speaker 3 (01:41:04):
He got right in my face. I would say four
inches maybe five?

Speaker 4 (01:41:09):
Okay? And this wasn't force based on the size of
the elevator, right, No.

Speaker 3 (01:41:14):
The elevator was empty at one point. There's someone else
that stepped on.

Speaker 4 (01:41:19):
But large elevator. Yes, and he got within four inches of.

Speaker 3 (01:41:24):
Your face, O uled, Yes, he he put his.

Speaker 4 (01:41:33):
Sustained once he got within four inches of your face
with his face, was that right?

Speaker 3 (01:41:41):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:41:43):
What did he do?

Speaker 3 (01:41:46):
He licked his lips and said, I wish you didn't have.

Speaker 4 (01:41:49):
A boyfriend, sister. Did you kiss him? Did he make
contact with you physical contact?

Speaker 3 (01:41:59):
Yes? How he put his arm around me when he
walked me back to my hotel room.

Speaker 4 (01:42:09):
When he walked you back to your hotel room?

Speaker 3 (01:42:12):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:42:12):
Did he attempt to kiss you again?

Speaker 3 (01:42:16):
No, he's it seemed very obvious to me kiss your
first time.

Speaker 6 (01:42:20):
She said, you did ignore.

Speaker 4 (01:42:22):
Oh, actually that's not what you said Overrull.

Speaker 3 (01:42:25):
Do you mean answer the question? He made it very
obvious that he wanted to kiss me, but he like
he was restraining himself. It was very obvious restraint.

Speaker 4 (01:42:39):
And did he attempt to invite himself into your hotel room? No?
And did you have still have roommates per se for
the hotel.

Speaker 3 (01:42:52):
Room, yes, Michelle and Lenore and I believe her mom
were inside sleeping at that hour, and.

Speaker 4 (01:42:59):
That's what it Then late Saturday night, early Sunday morning, right, Yes,
Is this the last you see of mister Alexander when
you're in Las Vegas?

Speaker 3 (01:43:10):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:43:13):
After that evening, when was the next time you saw him?

Speaker 3 (01:43:18):
Sunday morning, they had what's called a breakout and it
was in a small theater near the MGM Grand Uh
within walking distance. So that team I guess. I think
it was team where new Maybe a few other people
not on that team were at present. I saw him there,

(01:43:38):
I didn't sit next to him, and then that sustained.

Speaker 4 (01:43:47):
Where was it when you saw him?

Speaker 3 (01:43:49):
He was at the theater and I was at the theater.
And then he invited.

Speaker 6 (01:43:54):
Me to.

Speaker 4 (01:43:57):
What did he invite you to do?

Speaker 3 (01:43:59):
He invited me to go to I it was a
buffet of some kind at the back at the m
gym where he and a few other people were having breakfast.

Speaker 4 (01:44:08):
Okay, did you accept his invitation to have breakfast?

Speaker 3 (01:44:13):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:44:15):
And you said this was mister Alexander and other individuals, right, yes?

Speaker 3 (01:44:21):
Kay?

Speaker 4 (01:44:22):
Were these people you knew previous to this point in time?
Or were these four individuals you were meeting?

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
I believe i'd met them over the weekend. They were
people on my team and in my upling.

Speaker 4 (01:44:33):
Okay, the friends that you came with, you drove from
California with, were they at this breakfast? No? Where were
they to your knowledge?

Speaker 3 (01:44:45):
I don't know. I don't know where they went after
the breakout?

Speaker 4 (01:44:48):
Okay, this breakfast with mister Alexander, was that the last
time you saw him? No?

Speaker 3 (01:44:58):
Well, no, okay, I s I stayed with him till
he left, I think, okay?

Speaker 4 (01:45:07):
And what did you do after breakfast?

Speaker 3 (01:45:09):
Or did he leave right after break We walked over
to the front desk where he checked out, and we
walked out to the front where there were valets and
he was loading stuff into the taxi and getting ready
to go to the airport.

Speaker 4 (01:45:25):
Were there arrangements made for you to do have contact
with each other again? How did you leave things with
mister Alexander?

Speaker 3 (01:45:35):
Yeah, he indicated you would call me. I didn't really
expect him to call me, but that's kind of where
we left it. We hugged.

Speaker 4 (01:45:44):
Did he attempt to kiss you before he got into
the taxi? No? When did you leave the convention?

Speaker 3 (01:45:52):
Michelle Leonora and I checked out a few hours. We
got lunch at the Rainforest Cafe again, and then we
checked out after that.

Speaker 4 (01:45:59):
And I presume you drove back to California. Yep. After
you arrived back in California, you were still living in
the home with Darryl. Right. Yeah, was it back to
work or what did you do when you got back?

Speaker 3 (01:46:15):
I did have to work, just back in the same routine,
except Travis began to call me.

Speaker 4 (01:46:25):
At this point in time when you came back to
California to Palm Desert. Specifically, did you still consider Darrel
Brewer to be your boyfriend?

Speaker 3 (01:46:37):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:46:41):
Were you still sexually active with mister Brewer after you
came back from the convention?

Speaker 3 (01:46:48):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:46:50):
Why not?

Speaker 3 (01:46:54):
I don't know recall specifically why. Oh, well, because we
broke up, I guess that would be why. But we
didn't have sex after convention. I remember that was prior
to that was the last time I.

Speaker 4 (01:47:04):
Think we did okay, prior to the convention. Yes, and
you talk about breaking up with mister Burrow. When did
you do that?

Speaker 3 (01:47:14):
Well, I got back from convention on Sunday and I
broke up with Darryl on Thursday.

Speaker 4 (01:47:20):
Why did you break up with Darryl after you came
back from the convention.

Speaker 3 (01:47:27):
The relationship was already, like I'd mentioned, was kind of fizzling.
I loved him very much, but there was no it
wasn't going anywhere. At least we had different visions for
our futures because it had been like that from day one.
It took me four and a half years to really

(01:47:47):
just let it go cause I really loved him. Also,
on Wednesday night, I was invited to go out to
some of Travis's friend's house, and I knew Travis would
be there and I didn't want to I'm kind of like,
I'm I one guy at a time kind of person,

(01:48:09):
so I didn't want to have anything overlapping. And I
knew there was an interest uh with Travis, and I
was beginning to sort of develop just the seeds of
interest with Travis, and I didn't want to be in
a relationship when I went there because I didn't want
there to be anything hindering. I didn't wanna feel guilty

(01:48:32):
for flirting or sitting next to him or doing any
of that. I wanted to be out of a relationship
so that I could not cheat on anybody.

Speaker 4 (01:48:41):
That would it be correct to say that? Then, from
what you're telling us, mister Alexander motivated you to break
up with Darren.

Speaker 3 (01:48:50):
Barrow, the things he said made a big impression on me.
Wasn't just about relationships. It was about my whole life,
my career, and the direction of my life. So it
made me step back and take a look at where
I stood and where I was going.

Speaker 4 (01:49:04):
So that was you mentioned something that I think is interesting.
You said you came back with a different vision of
the future. You came back from the convention with a
different vision of the future than when you left. Right, Yes,

(01:49:25):
describe for us if you could, what was your vision
of the future before you went to this convention in
September two thousand and six.

Speaker 3 (01:49:35):
It was kind of nebulous. It wasn't very clear. I
just knew that I wanted to basic things. I knew
I wanted to have kids someday. I knew I wanted
to be married someday. I knew I didn't want to
struggle paycheck to paycheck. I didn't see myself living a
life of excess, but definitely being able to pay the

(01:49:55):
bills and provide for families somewhat or just at least
be a joint contributor to the household. I saw myself
getting more into photography, and hopefully I still had hopes
of being successful in real estate eventually.

Speaker 4 (01:50:13):
And when you come back from convention, what's your vision
of the future.

Speaker 3 (01:50:21):
I still had those desires, but leaving convention, I can't
really describe it. It was painful, actually, because I knew
that there was a lot of change on my horizon.
At that point, I couldn't continue with the same life
that I had been living, because it's kind of like
my eyes were opened to a lot of things that

(01:50:42):
I had been ignoring, and I didn't the change that
the idea of change was uncomfortable. I really loved Darryl,
but I couldn't continue with it.

Speaker 4 (01:50:53):
That sounds more about things on a personal level. Well,
what about your vision for your future on a professional level,
where you believing leaving this convention that prepaid legal was
gonna make you rich?

Speaker 3 (01:51:12):
It The idea of selling the membership was uncomfortable to me.
I believe in the product, but just hitting up my
friends and family seemed awkward. So I had that desire,
but I couldn't quite see myself going out and doing it,

(01:51:35):
at least yet. So Michelle invited me to a event
a week later, and it kind of re re reiterated
some of the things I had seen at convention, and
I continue to go to these events from then on.
I became more active as far as plugging into those
events and how to sell the membership and how to

(01:51:58):
have success in the just the general vision of it
became more crystallized in my mind.

Speaker 4 (01:52:05):
Was there a general point in time then when you
decided that to, for lack of a better phrase, go
all in and prepaid legal in terms of your.

Speaker 3 (01:52:16):
Future, I had moment. I had periods in the company
where I was very productive and the money I made
was surprising. I didn't realize the compensation plan was as
generous as it was, and I liked that, but I
found it difficult to maintain that level of production every month.

Speaker 4 (01:52:37):
Were you still working other jobs?

Speaker 3 (01:52:40):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:52:41):
Did you eventually get to a point where prepaid legal
was your only job? No? How much did you make
in a year with prepaid Legal? And you and you
say your most productive year?

Speaker 3 (01:52:58):
I really didn't make anything for several months at a time,
and then one month I made approximately seventeen hundred and
the next month I made I wanna say a little
over a thousand, So those two months were really good.

Speaker 4 (01:53:18):
How much time a week were you spending investing in
your prepaid legal business?

Speaker 3 (01:53:25):
Not nearly as much as I should have been. They
have goals in the company, things that they'd like you
to commit to, such as talking to other people about
a minimum number of people per day or per week,
And I don't remember them now cause it's been so long,
but just different. They're called ten core commitments. At least

(01:53:46):
that's what they were called then, and they tell you
that if you just do these things systematically, then success follows.

Speaker 4 (01:53:55):
How many hours a week were you working at the restaurant.

Speaker 3 (01:54:01):
At that time? I was still a full time at Cuisto,
but eventually I quit that job and then I only
had one you.

Speaker 4 (01:54:17):
Broke up with I wan, I wanna go back to
this conversation you had with Derek. Do I sit down
and the two of you talk about the relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:54:26):
Yes, I guess I wasn't as specific as I thought
I had been. It sounded like he didn't have a
very that he didn't get that impression. But we sat down.
I actually had a conversation with him. We sat at
our kitchen table, and I just told him to the
e in essence. I told him, I know we're not
getting married, but you know i'd like to have kids someday.

(01:54:49):
And he said okay, And I said, well, I think
maybe we should. I might want to start pursuing that goal.
And I know that you don't want to pursue that
goal with me, and that's okay. I know you're he
was moving back to Montoo. I said, I know you're
moving back soon, So I kind of just left it

(01:55:10):
at that. I don't think I was very specific, but
he was nodding his head like he understood what I
was saying. So I was under the impression that he
understood that we were no longer together at that point,
I mean, not in a committed relationship where we are
a boyfriend girlfriend.

Speaker 4 (01:55:27):
And you mentioned doing this prior to being invited to
spend a weekend in California with mister.

Speaker 3 (01:55:36):
Alexander right, actually did it right after I was invited,
But prior.

Speaker 4 (01:55:39):
To going, prior to you going to California, or prior
to this breakup, had you had any other interaction with
any officials from the Mormon Church in your home? Not
at that point, So tell us about this. When was

(01:56:05):
it it was? When was this trip to California or
somewhere else in California to take place?

Speaker 3 (01:56:11):
This would have been the weekend after convention.

Speaker 4 (01:56:17):
And where where was it? How many hours from you
was it?

Speaker 3 (01:56:22):
I don't remember the drive, not far. It was in Marietta, California,
either Marietta or Temecula, I think Marietta, and I'd say
an hour or fifteen minutes maybe on the drive.

Speaker 4 (01:56:34):
And whose home were you going to.

Speaker 3 (01:56:38):
I was going to Travis's friends and their names are
Chris and Sky.

Speaker 4 (01:56:46):
Is that Christ and Sky his where the dress came from? Yes,
as it relates to at this point in time. Did
you have an understanding where mister Alexander lived?

Speaker 3 (01:57:00):
Yes, I knew we lived in.

Speaker 4 (01:57:01):
Did you feel comfortable going to Marietta to spend this
I guess it was a couple of days in this
home of people you barely knew.

Speaker 3 (01:57:12):
I had met the Hughes at convention and they seemed
like very nice people, so I wasn't. I was a
little uncomfortable, but not in a bad way, just shy,
but I didn't feel unsafe or anything like that. I
just there was gonna be a party there. I believe
mister Hughes's brothers were moving to Colorado, so it was

(01:57:34):
sort of a going away party, and Sky's brother also
returned from his mission, so it was kind of a
and then all the pre legal associates were there, so
it's kind of a party with multiple purposes. We were
all just there gathering, cause it's like a social gathering.

Speaker 4 (01:57:51):
Was it your understanding you said a social gathering? Were
you there as one of the party guests per se
or were you there as Travis's day just a party guest.
Did you spend a lot of time with Travis over
the house a few days Not?

Speaker 3 (01:58:08):
At first. I got there while the party was in
progress and hung out for a while. Michelle was there,
so I felt comfortable a little bit, and eventually she left.
It had been discussed ahead of time that and this
was on a Saturday, this party, that I could stay
the night. They had an extra bedroom, and they wanted
me to attend church with them in the morning, so

(01:58:30):
I agreed to that. And Travis actually wasn't there at
the party. He was late, and he showed up after
almost everyone had left.

Speaker 4 (01:58:41):
Did you spend time this uh what would have been
Saturday evening before church? Did you spend time with mister
Alexander on Saturday evening?

Speaker 3 (01:58:50):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:58:51):
Was it just the two of you or were there
other people involved?

Speaker 3 (01:58:55):
At first it was Travis and I. We were sitting
on an oversized chair, and Sky and one other guy
named Jeff I can't remember his last name. At this point, Kay,
we were all sitting in the living room, uh, watching
a funny video that Travis had made or s filmed.

Speaker 4 (01:59:17):
At this point in time, had you kissed mister Alexander? No,
when did you first kiss mister Alexander.

Speaker 3 (01:59:26):
We all went to bed and he came into the
bedroom I was staying in. I assumed there was probably
gonna be some kissing or some kind of talking or
hanging out. We had talked every night that entire week.
So that's when we.

Speaker 4 (01:59:41):
Can I wanna clarify too as well. You you just
said something. You said you talked to mister Alexander every night.
What time period are you referring to.

Speaker 3 (01:59:53):
The time from the Monday after convention? Uh til Friday night?

Speaker 4 (02:00:01):
So he called you after convention every single night?

Speaker 3 (02:00:05):
Yes, that was he called her. They talked rephrase.

Speaker 4 (02:00:11):
How did you and mister Alexander why not communicating all
these nights between convention and his invitation to you?

Speaker 3 (02:00:20):
Well, I was at my home in Palm Desert and
he was at his home in Mesa, so he called okay?

Speaker 4 (02:00:27):
Uh? Did he call you on your cell phone or
home phone or my call? Okay? And about what time
of the day, if there was a consistent time of
the day, was he calling you?

Speaker 3 (02:00:42):
The first night he called around eight o'clock and then
toward the week end, of the week. It began to
get a little bit later, not inappropriately, maybe just nine thirty,
little closer to ten. He learned my schedule and I
usually worked in the afternoons, so it wasn't a big
deal that he called that late.

Speaker 4 (02:00:59):
What was calling about?

Speaker 3 (02:01:03):
We just talked mostly about Well, he told me a
lot about himself and his dog, his religion, his mission,
his friends, He has lots of had lots of funny
stories he would share, and he wanted to know about me.
He wanted to know about Darryl. He wanted to know

(02:01:28):
just different things about my life.

Speaker 4 (02:01:33):
These conversations you had with him over these days after
the convention, Is that part of what you meant by
his words encouraging you to break up with Daryl Brewer?

Speaker 3 (02:01:47):
Will you say that again? I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (02:01:51):
You talked about how some of the things that Travis
said to you encouraged you to break up with Daryl Brewer. Yes,
these things that he said to you that encourage you
to break up with Daryl Brewer were some of these
things said during these phone calls he was making to you.

Speaker 3 (02:02:09):
Yes, just encouraging me to never settle for mediocrity, is
was really what it centered on relationships, careers, anything. Also,
when he found out Darryl's age, he was making fun
of him.

Speaker 4 (02:02:24):
What do you mean making fun of him?

Speaker 3 (02:02:28):
Just that I was dating Grandpa. Things like that, you know,
just little jokes, and I mean I didn't really find
it funny, but I didn't get overly offended or anything.
I just said, he's not like that, and you know,
I described him as handsome and you know, like that.

Speaker 4 (02:02:44):
Okay, what at this point in time was it about
mister Alexander that encouraged you or help maybe push you
over the edge, so to speak, to break.

Speaker 3 (02:02:59):
Up with but l, like I said, some of the
things he said helped me to gain a different perspective
and step back and take a look at my life.
And I realized things weren't going anywhere. If it probably
weren't for Travis, I may have just continued on like
that until Daryl moved and who knows. But knowing that

(02:03:22):
I wanted to hang out with Travis that weekend, and
I didn't want to. I've always been faithful t in
my relationships and I didn't want to change that now.
So I decided to break things off with Daryl so
that I was just free to hang out with Travis
without you know, feeling guilty that I was sitting next
to him, or if it led to kissing or something
like that, it wouldn't it wouldn't be something that I

(02:03:46):
would feel bad about.

Speaker 2 (02:03:51):
It's time, ladies and gentlemen, please be back in the
jury room by three thirty and we'll start promptly at
that time. Please remember the admonition.

Speaker 5 (02:04:00):
You are excused, Council, Are you ready for the jury
be seated? The record will show the presence of the jury,

(02:04:23):
the defendant and all council.

Speaker 4 (02:04:26):
Mister nurmay you may continue. Thank you, misterious. Before the break,
we were talking about this weekend you were spending with
Travis and his friends Chris and Skoy Hughes, and specifically
you were talking about the first time you kiss mister Alexander,

(02:04:53):
and that was, to my understanding, that was in the
room that you were in at he Is Home. Is
that right?

Speaker 3 (02:05:02):
Yes, the bedroom that I was assigned.

Speaker 4 (02:05:05):
Okay, tell us you mentioned him coming over, but just
kind of describe for us him coming to your room.
Just kind of describe for us what happened. Did he
knock on the door, did he walk in? Just kind
of walk us through that before.

Speaker 3 (02:05:20):
Going to bed. He said, I'll come in there. Uh,
it's in a little bit after they go to s
after they shut their door and go into their bedroom
and go to sleep. I guess I don't know. Well,
he wanted to wait until they were in their bedroom,
so I left the door cracked cause I figured we
were just gonna a serious were having difficulty hearing you?

(02:05:43):
Oh sorry, I'll try to speak up. He came into
my room at that point and we started kissing. We
sat down on the bed and started kissing.

Speaker 4 (02:06:00):
Was there conversation first or you just come in and
start kissing.

Speaker 3 (02:06:03):
There was no conversation. I thought there was going to be,
but there was no conversation, sustained.

Speaker 4 (02:06:13):
Did you anticipate that his sole purpose of coming in
the room was to kiss you?

Speaker 3 (02:06:19):
Not his sole purpose? But I had a pretty good.

Speaker 4 (02:06:23):
Idea that it might lead to that the word kiss
or kissing could be taken a whole bunch of different ways,
could relate to a simple peck on the cheek to
something much more intimate. Could you describe for us the
way that he was kissing you.

Speaker 3 (02:06:39):
Yeah, it was more passionate. It wasn't just regular kissing.
It was more. It was passionate, like French kissing.

Speaker 4 (02:06:47):
Okay, was he touching you?

Speaker 2 (02:06:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:06:53):
We were.

Speaker 3 (02:06:55):
I don't really recall the specifics, but we were getting intimate.
We were making out basically.

Speaker 4 (02:07:07):
And what do you mean by intimate? That could also
mean a lot of different things to a lot of
different people. So describe for us what you mean by
your getting intimate.

Speaker 3 (02:07:18):
Well, at that point we were laying on the bed.
We were side by side, facing each other, kissing. That's
what I mean by intimate at that point.

Speaker 4 (02:07:29):
Was he touching any particular parts of your body? Or
were you just kissing?

Speaker 3 (02:07:34):
I don't really recall that. At first it began to
lead to more.

Speaker 4 (02:07:43):
And what do you mean by more?

Speaker 3 (02:07:49):
Well, I don't really recall how it happened. But he
began to remove my clothes, and.

Speaker 4 (02:08:02):
You recall what you were wearing when he began to
remove your clothes.

Speaker 3 (02:08:07):
I was in pajamas of some kind, I think sweats
and a T shirt.

Speaker 4 (02:08:11):
And this him taking off your clothes. Was that something
you were expecting to take place?

Speaker 3 (02:08:19):
No. I thought we were going to kiss, and maybe heavily,
but that that would be the extent of it. Since
this was the first time we were.

Speaker 4 (02:08:27):
Kissing when he began to remove your clothing. Was that
then surprising to you?

Speaker 3 (02:08:42):
It was, well, yeah, I was a little surprising, but
it was more I felt apprehensive, but I was going
with it.

Speaker 4 (02:08:52):
What do you mean you felt apprehensive?

Speaker 3 (02:08:55):
Well, I wasn't expecting that, so I didn't want to
tell him no. So I just kept going with it.

Speaker 4 (02:09:05):
Why didn't you want to tell him no?

Speaker 3 (02:09:08):
I didn't want to do I didn't want to do
anything that would maybe displease him. Not because I feared
like he would get angry or anything, but I didn't
want to I didn't want him to feel rejected, and
I didn't want him to get his feelings hurt or
I didn't want to spoil the mood sort of sort

(02:09:29):
of like that we were getting long, we were we
had some kind of chemistry. I just didn't want to
like snuff it out right then by saying stop. I
guess that was my thought.

Speaker 4 (02:09:41):
Why would rejecting him at that point in time be
such a big deal to you?

Speaker 3 (02:09:50):
At that point in time, I was not really accustomed
to saying no. I wasn't. I wasn't. I have a
lot more aback bone now than I used to. It
was hard for me to tell somebody now, So even
though it was uncomfortable, I just kept going with it.

Speaker 4 (02:10:11):
So the discomfort you are feeling and going having your
clothes removed was less burdensome to you than the discomfort
you would feel saying no, is that? What is that?
What we're here?

Speaker 3 (02:10:31):
I can't really say one way or another because I
didn't I wouldn't know because I couldn't make the comparison.
But at the time it felt more uncomfortable to say
to push him off of me or something. I mean,
he wasn't aggressive, but he was definitely doing the initiating
at that point. And I guess that's kept going for it.

Speaker 4 (02:10:54):
Did he on this occasion wind up removing your clothes? Yes?
All your clothes?

Speaker 3 (02:11:04):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:11:08):
At this point in time, was mister Alexander uh dressed?

Speaker 3 (02:11:12):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:11:15):
Did that change?

Speaker 3 (02:11:20):
Not really? I think he kept his his garments on
that he was wearing.

Speaker 4 (02:11:28):
And you say garments or what are you referring.

Speaker 3 (02:11:32):
To garments are? They're called temple garments, and they are
it's like a h it's like a T shirt and
underwear sort of kind of like briefs. They're sort of
an off white color.

Speaker 4 (02:11:49):
Is that what he came in wearing or just those
or was he wearing other things?

Speaker 3 (02:11:53):
No, he had he had his temple garments on under
I think sweat. I don't remember if he had just
the shirt, but I think he was wearing pajamas over.

Speaker 4 (02:12:01):
Those, okay, and whatever else he was wearing over his garments.
Did he take those items off or did you?

Speaker 3 (02:12:14):
I don't recall. I know I didn't. Okay, it might
have been a joint effort, but I didn't solely remove
them or anything like that. I don't really remember.

Speaker 4 (02:12:23):
So after you are undressed and mister Alexander is in
his undergarments, what happened?

Speaker 3 (02:12:38):
This isn't Mars the same.

Speaker 4 (02:12:42):
Is it embarrassing for you to talk about this? Overruled?

Speaker 3 (02:12:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:12:50):
I understand how it might be, but it's important to
share this with us, So if you could please tell
us what happened?

Speaker 3 (02:13:06):
You began to perform oral sex on me?

Speaker 4 (02:13:12):
And was this comfortable? You mentioned earlier that you had
a certain level of discomfort with this act, the being naked.
Were you uncomfortable? Well, this oral sex was going on,
I was.

Speaker 3 (02:13:33):
I was uncomfortable. It was dark, I mean, the lights
were off, so like that might have made it a
little bit more I mean a little more tolerable. Tolerable,
but it was I don't know, I mean it he
n he knew what he was doing for sure, but
it was just felt like too much, too soon, And

(02:13:55):
I mean, I couldn't exactly rewind at that point.

Speaker 4 (02:13:58):
You know, why not did you did you voice your
displeasure with the events?

Speaker 3 (02:14:07):
No? I can't say there was displeasure, but it was uncomfortable.

Speaker 4 (02:14:13):
Okay, well let me re let me rephrase my question. Then,
did did you voice your discomfort to him?

Speaker 3 (02:14:18):
No? I didn't want to give him that impression?

Speaker 4 (02:14:23):
Why not sustain? Why not? Mysterious?

Speaker 3 (02:14:26):
Why not? What?

Speaker 4 (02:14:28):
I'm sorry? Why didn't you voice your discomfort?

Speaker 3 (02:14:32):
I didn't want him to have that impression. I wanted to.
I wanted to at least appear like I was enjoying
it as much as he seemed to be.

Speaker 4 (02:14:44):
So you were attempting to give him the impression that
you were enjoying things?

Speaker 3 (02:14:49):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:14:52):
And why were you interested in doing that?

Speaker 3 (02:15:00):
I guess? I guess it would have seems to me
to be unattractive for for me to say anything different
or anything negative about the experience.

Speaker 4 (02:15:17):
Okay, what happened after he performed oral sex upon you?

Speaker 3 (02:15:27):
He asked for reciprocation?

Speaker 4 (02:15:31):
And how did that request make you feel?

Speaker 3 (02:15:36):
At that point? If I had taken it that bar,
I was kind of glad he was done, and I
was just willing to reciprocate at that point.

Speaker 4 (02:15:46):
Okay, And so we're clear. When you say reciprocate, does
that mean perform oral sex upon him?

Speaker 3 (02:15:53):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:15:56):
And did he remove his garments at that time or
how did that occur?

Speaker 3 (02:16:03):
I don't know if his the garments at the bottom
came all the way off or just pushed down the
shirt remained on and yeah, and yeah, what yeah, they
I don't remember what happened with the I think they well,
they obviously came down, so I don't know if they
came all the way off or not. I can't remember.

Speaker 4 (02:16:25):
Okay, did he perform or excuse me, did you perform
oral sex upon him at that time?

Speaker 3 (02:16:31):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:16:34):
Did he ejaculate?

Speaker 3 (02:16:36):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:16:37):
Where in my mouth? What happened after he ejaculated?

Speaker 3 (02:16:45):
I think we fell asleep. I don't recall getting dressed again.
I don't even recall getting with the blankets. But when
I woke up, we were both covered with blankets.

Speaker 4 (02:17:00):
Okay, you were both in the same bedroom on your bed, yes,
And were you dressed.

Speaker 3 (02:17:14):
When I woke up? Not initially, but I put my
pajamas back on.

Speaker 4 (02:17:20):
What happened next?

Speaker 3 (02:17:22):
I don't remember what time we woke up, but it
was before everyone else. Did I remember falling asleep? I
think he might have woken up because I woke up,
and he got dressed and left the room.

Speaker 4 (02:17:34):
And from what you told us earlier, this occurred. This
incident occurred Saturday night, and the next morning would have
been Sunday morning, the day you were to go to church.
Is that correct? What happened from that point in time on?

Speaker 3 (02:17:51):
Do you mean that morning?

Speaker 4 (02:17:53):
Yes? You were telling us how he eventually left. You
got dressed and left your bedroom.

Speaker 3 (02:18:00):
What happened from that point basically the rest of the
household began to wake up. I hadn't been to church
since I was about eleven, so I didn't really have
church clothes. I went about two dresses before heading out there.
I asked Sky which one would be more appropriate. So
then I put on an outfit, and the rest of

(02:18:22):
the household was getting ready for church, and then we
took separate cars. I took my car. I think Travis
road with me on that one over and can't remember
who else rode with me. Maybe it was Jeff, and
the Hues took their own vehicle.

Speaker 4 (02:18:41):
And what was the service like? Was there a particular
subject matter of the service that day?

Speaker 3 (02:18:51):
I don't recall exactly what was said, but I do
remember that one of the speakers was Sky's brother Zion,
who had just gotten back from his mission, and so
he was giving a talk related to maybe something related.

Speaker 4 (02:19:04):
I don't remember the topic, something related to what.

Speaker 3 (02:19:09):
It would have been related to his topic, but because
when you speak in church, are given a topic to
talk about, and I don't recall what the subject matter was,
but he was speaking from the podium.

Speaker 4 (02:19:22):
After prior to going to church, did you and mister
Alexander speak about this incident the night before? No? Did
you speak about the incident that day after church? No?

(02:19:47):
After what happened? After the church service?

Speaker 3 (02:19:52):
We had the church service and I rode back. Well,
I drove back in my car, Travis a shotgun. Jeff
was behind me, and Sky was behind Travis. We were
driving back and she found in the back of my seat.
She found a portfolio of my photography and she was
flipping through it, and there was a photograph of Darryl

(02:20:14):
in that photo that I had taken, a headshot of
him kind of growling at the camera. He was gruff
and he was unshaven, and it was in black and white.
It looked really cool, and he showed it. She showed
it too, too, Travis. So that was the first time
that Travis saw Darryl. So that was I don't know.

(02:20:39):
I kind of lost the track of the question.

Speaker 4 (02:20:41):
Okay, did you before you left? I assume from what
you were telling us before that you left the Hugheses
home on Sunday? That Sunday? Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (02:20:52):
Yes? I did.

Speaker 4 (02:20:56):
Before leaving, And by leaving the Hugheses Home, you going
to return to Palm Desert.

Speaker 3 (02:21:01):
Right?

Speaker 4 (02:21:01):
Were you ever alone with mister Alexander prior to you
leaving the home from the time you went to church
to the time you left the home, when the two
of you ever alone together?

Speaker 3 (02:21:13):
Not that I recalled.

Speaker 4 (02:21:15):
Everyone was home, so you didn't have a chance to
speak about this incident with him. That is that correct.

Speaker 3 (02:21:23):
I may have had an opportunity if I'd wanted to
pull him aside, but it was not.

Speaker 4 (02:21:28):
After you well, when you left the home, how did
you and Travis part ways? Were you expecting to call
each other or what.

Speaker 3 (02:21:37):
Was the He walked me out to my car and
kissed me, and I got in the car and.

Speaker 4 (02:21:45):
Drove off back to Palm Desert.

Speaker 3 (02:21:48):
Yeah, I stopped and got gassed, and I think I
went to Starbucks and then I went back to Palm Desert.

Speaker 4 (02:21:53):
All right, When did you next hear from mister I?

Speaker 3 (02:21:59):
Would it? Would I either have been that night or
Monday night? Okay?

Speaker 4 (02:22:07):
And how did you what was the means that you
conducted or contacted mister Alexander. Did he call you? Was
it in person?

Speaker 3 (02:22:20):
We were calling each other back and forth at that point,
so I don't remember who called who, but it was
over the phone, okay.

Speaker 4 (02:22:27):
When you spoke was there conversation related to this incident
that evening?

Speaker 3 (02:22:35):
There may have been some reference to it, but we
mostly talked about church, and you wanted to know how
I liked it.

Speaker 4 (02:22:40):
Okay. At this point in time, when you returned from
Palm doesn't you've been to church? Have any religious officials
from the Mormon Church contacted you at this point in time?

Speaker 3 (02:22:56):
No, not yet.

Speaker 4 (02:22:59):
When did did that occur.

Speaker 3 (02:23:03):
Well, Travis gave me a Book of Mormon on Wednesday,
and I think around that same time he contacted.

Speaker 6 (02:23:09):
The church.

Speaker 3 (02:23:11):
And I don't know how it works, but he gave
them my information so that some missionaries in that area
could come to my house.

Speaker 4 (02:23:22):
You mentioned Travis gave you a Book of Mormon on Wednesday.
Was this the Wednesday following the Sunday that you left
the Hugheses Yes? And where did you see mister Alexander
on Wednesday?

Speaker 3 (02:23:39):
He was leaving Riverside and driving back to Mesa and
Palm Desert is on that stretch that's on the iten
and he called me on the way and wanted to
meet with me so that he could give me a
copy of the Book of Mormon, and I agreed to
meet with him. I didn't really know where you could

(02:23:59):
meet though, because Daryl was home and I didn't want
to bring some guy over.

Speaker 4 (02:24:04):
So where did you wind up meeting?

Speaker 3 (02:24:06):
We ended up meeting at a Starbucks, which was near
my house.

Speaker 4 (02:24:10):
Okay, And is this where he gave you the Book
of Mormon?

Speaker 3 (02:24:15):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:24:19):
Did you have a conversation at this Starbucks?

Speaker 3 (02:24:23):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:24:25):
And what was the subject matter of this conversation?

Speaker 3 (02:24:31):
He he didn't give you the Book of Mormon right away.
He had Napoleon with him, which was his dog. He's
a black pug. I'm a leash and we I don't
remember where Napoleon was, but we went inside the store
to to get drinks.

Speaker 4 (02:24:52):
Sorry, s stage, Okay, you're in this Starbucks. He has
his dog with him. What is the what is the
subject matter of the.

Speaker 3 (02:25:03):
Word of wisdom? But we were sitting outside in the shade.
It was a little hot, but it was still somewhat
it was cooler in the shade.

Speaker 4 (02:25:11):
Okay, so you were at the Starbucks, just sitting outside.
You were talking about the Word of Wisdom, right, yes,
And for those of us who are not familiar, what
is the to your understanding at that point in time?
What is the Word of wisdom?

Speaker 3 (02:25:29):
The Word of Wisdom is LDS doctrine that states it
prohibits the consumption of coffee, t alcohol, tobacco, and illegal drugs.

Speaker 4 (02:25:42):
Do those same words relate to the vow of chastity
or is that something completely different?

Speaker 3 (02:25:51):
The law of chastity is different from the Word of wisdom.
There are two separate commandment.

Speaker 4 (02:25:56):
After the two of you were at Starbucks outside what
happens next, Well.

Speaker 3 (02:26:06):
We discussed the word it wasn't a little more because
he was drinking chai tea chist. I said that doesn't count,
and I asked him why and explain his reasons. I
was drinking a latte and is late. And so as
our conversation progressed, it sort of moved into a little

(02:26:27):
I don't I don't know how to explain it, but
basically expressed that he was horny. That is what he said.

Speaker 4 (02:26:36):
And once he made this expression, did you remain with
the Starbucks or did you go elsewhere?

Speaker 3 (02:26:43):
Well, he said I wish there were somewhere you can go,
and I said, I'm sorry, sustained we both for trying
to figure out a place for a week ago. So
I don't know why, but I was wanting to go
with him also to find some place. So we went
in our respective cars. We drove to a park near Starbucks.

(02:27:08):
It was between my house and Starbucks, and it was
the middle of a school day, so nobody was there.
There was a parking lot there, and we pulled up
into the parking lot and he left Napoleon in the
car with the air conditioner on and the windows rolled up.
And he came into my car and sat in the
passenger seat.

Speaker 4 (02:27:30):
And after he sat in the passenger seat, you mentioned
that that he expressed his that he was to use
your words horning right, Yes, okay. What was the point
of him getting in your car at the park?

Speaker 3 (02:27:51):
To your understand, I didn't know it's at first? I
mean my car was gres she has the park, say,
I did not know the point of him Okay, I
mean I didn't know what he was expecting.

Speaker 4 (02:28:07):
Question when he got in the car, did he voice
or convey an interest in engaging in some sort of
sexual activity with you in the car?

Speaker 3 (02:28:24):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:28:25):
What sort of activity? To your understanding, was he interested
in choral sex? And so we're clear, was that oral
sex that you were to be performing on him or
him performing on you.

Speaker 3 (02:28:40):
He wanted to receive it.

Speaker 4 (02:28:43):
Did you comply?

Speaker 3 (02:28:46):
Yes? Why I felt I felt an attraction to him,
and the feeling was mutual, and I wanted to I
just wanted to. I don't know. I wanted to do

(02:29:08):
what he wanted to do.

Speaker 4 (02:29:12):
You wanted to do what he wanted to do?

Speaker 3 (02:29:15):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:29:21):
Why I liked him prior to in between the first
incident in the home of Christen skuy Hughes or oral
sex took place? And the time that you were in
the park, you had conversed with mister Alexandra a few times. Correct? Yes,

(02:29:48):
during those conversations, did you ever voice it your discomfort
about what happened that Saturday night in the Hughes home, No, didn't.
Did oral sex take place in your car?

Speaker 3 (02:30:05):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:30:06):
Did he ejaculate?

Speaker 3 (02:30:08):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:30:10):
Where I don't remember actually, Kay, after he ejaculated, what
happened from that point on?

Speaker 3 (02:30:24):
He fixed the visor mirror and pulled his pants back up.

Speaker 4 (02:30:30):
What do you mean he fixed the visor mirror?

Speaker 3 (02:30:34):
He had it flipped? Well, when when I started, he
flipped the visor down and angled the mirror.

Speaker 4 (02:30:40):
I guess did it when you started? What or what
happened then? When after he fixed the mirror? Did you
guys hang out for a uh a longer ago the park?
What did you do? No?

Speaker 3 (02:30:57):
I guess I was under the impression that we were
oc I response, what.

Speaker 4 (02:31:02):
Did you do? What did you do? What happened?

Speaker 3 (02:31:04):
We parted?

Speaker 4 (02:31:06):
What's happened?

Speaker 3 (02:31:07):
We parted ways?

Speaker 4 (02:31:09):
Uh immediately within minutes?

Speaker 3 (02:31:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:31:16):
How did you feel after that encounter?

Speaker 3 (02:31:23):
I don't I don't recall feeling really bad? Maybe just
a little deflated. He wouldn't He refused to kiss me afterward,
and because he said it was gross. I get maybe
that's because I was just performing all sex, but that's
what he said. And so he kissed me on the cheek.

(02:31:45):
And and I.

Speaker 4 (02:31:48):
Know this might be hard for you, cause I kind
of want you to address my question, how did you
feel afterwards? Has an answer impropiate question as to how
counsel could possibly lookless she feels approve after mister Alexander departed,

(02:32:10):
How did you feel about the fact that you would
just perform oral sex apply him.

Speaker 3 (02:32:16):
I felt a little disappointed with myself, but it's hard
to describe. Like I was attracted to him, he was
attracted to me. He obviously derived a lot of pleasure
from that, so that I took as a good sign.
But again I was just thinking it was a little
bit too much, too soon. I mean not that I

(02:32:38):
mean I've been intimate before, but not that quickly.

Speaker 4 (02:32:44):
So so you were disappointed in yourself being that intimate
intimate that early on in your relationship.

Speaker 3 (02:32:52):
Yeah, it wasn't so much the intimacy, but the rapidness,
the sut the timing. Yes, you could say, and you know,
I've been with Darryl for and a half years, so
he was the only person I'd known for at that time,
So this was somewhat foreign, but just you know, but

(02:33:13):
it was, but it wasn't, if that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (02:33:17):
To clarify too. At this point in time, this encounter
in the park, were you in love with mister Alexander?

Speaker 2 (02:33:25):
No?

Speaker 4 (02:33:27):
After he departed, what did you do?

Speaker 3 (02:33:33):
I drove home and got ready for work.

Speaker 4 (02:33:37):
He left me a voicemail okay, on your cell phone
or on.

Speaker 3 (02:33:42):
A home phone, on my cell phone?

Speaker 4 (02:33:44):
Okay? And what was the subject matter of that voicemail?

Speaker 3 (02:33:54):
He was expressing his thoughts. I'm not sure how to
answer that question. The incident, I guess, would be the
subject matter question.

Speaker 4 (02:34:02):
For see when you're when you're talking about the the
subject matter was the oral sex that just took place?

Speaker 3 (02:34:10):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:34:13):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:34:13):
Or no? Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:34:18):
And if you can characterize it, was he express expressing
happiness gratitude about the event.

Speaker 3 (02:34:33):
I wouldn't characterize it that way.

Speaker 4 (02:34:34):
How would you characterize it? I'm not sure how how
would you characterize it?

Speaker 3 (02:34:41):
I would say that he was I'm trying to think
how to characterize it without saying what.

Speaker 4 (02:34:49):
He said, Well, let me ask you this. What he
did He voice displeasure with what took place.

Speaker 3 (02:35:00):
He voiced displeasure with himself.

Speaker 4 (02:35:05):
Was that related to the fact that this incident took place,
of the re of or how he treated you.

Speaker 3 (02:35:14):
Both?

Speaker 4 (02:35:18):
This was you received this voicemail before you went to
work that day, right?

Speaker 3 (02:35:23):
I think I received it while I was working.

Speaker 4 (02:35:25):
Okay, do you recall were you working an evening shift
or do you recall what hours you were working?

Speaker 3 (02:35:33):
I was working afternoon evening.

Speaker 4 (02:35:38):
And at this point in time, you were living a
home in the Palm Desert home by yourself. Is that right?

Speaker 3 (02:35:46):
Daryl was still there? Were in the separate bedrooms at
all times?

Speaker 4 (02:35:51):
Were you still? Were you and Daryl at a place
where you were friends, friendly or was it a caustic environment?

Speaker 3 (02:36:00):
It was not caustic. It was friendly, just no longer intimate.

Speaker 4 (02:36:05):
Okay, did you wind up speaking When was the next
time after this incident in the car that you wound
up speaking to mister Ali.

Speaker 3 (02:36:18):
It would have either been that night or the following night.

Speaker 4 (02:36:21):
You mentioned a voicemail where he was somewhat I guess
apologetic for how he treated you and what took place.
Did you ever questions?

Speaker 2 (02:36:39):
So what you said?

Speaker 4 (02:36:40):
She just testified that that's exactly what he's expressed.

Speaker 3 (02:36:45):
And it's your question.

Speaker 4 (02:36:48):
Were you given the opportunity to or I should say
this way, did you ever take advantage of the opportunity
to express your displeasure or discomfort with what had been
taking place sexually in your relationship?

Speaker 3 (02:37:09):
Yes, somewhat.

Speaker 4 (02:37:12):
What do you mean by someone?

Speaker 3 (02:37:14):
I sent him a response in response to his firstmail,
I sent him an.

Speaker 4 (02:37:19):
Email after this encounter in the car. Are you still
speaking with mister Alexander? How frequently are you.

Speaker 3 (02:37:32):
Speaking to mister alex almost every night?

Speaker 4 (02:37:37):
And are these quick conversations or these extensive conversations?

Speaker 3 (02:37:43):
These are long conversations?

Speaker 4 (02:37:45):
Hours are some of these? Are these conversations? I understand
that each one's probably somewhat unique. What were they spiritual
in nature?

Speaker 2 (02:37:57):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:37:57):
They were spiritual.

Speaker 4 (02:38:00):
Were they sexual in nature?

Speaker 3 (02:38:02):
Yes? Flirty?

Speaker 4 (02:38:05):
Okay, flirty? And when was the next time and mister
Alexander t you're understanding was still living in Mesa right?

Speaker 3 (02:38:18):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:38:20):
When was the next point in time that you saw mister?

Speaker 3 (02:38:23):
It would have been in October.

Speaker 4 (02:38:26):
October of six, okay? And when did this meeting take place.

Speaker 3 (02:38:35):
I don't remember the exact date. There are photos with
the dates.

Speaker 4 (02:38:41):
Let me ask you this, where did this meeting take place?

Speaker 3 (02:38:45):
This we met up in Arenberg. I think it's in California.

Speaker 4 (02:38:50):
Technically, okay, it's right on the border. I'm sorry, what
was that?

Speaker 3 (02:38:55):
It's right on the border of California and Arizona. Okay.

Speaker 4 (02:39:02):
And how much later was this meeting? Was this weeks later?
Days later when you met in Aerinberg from the incident
in the park in your car?

Speaker 3 (02:39:14):
I would say it was about a month later.

Speaker 4 (02:39:18):
Okay, So you didn't physically see him for about a month,
but you spoke every day on the phone, Yes, almost
every day. And as a result of those conversations. Well,
let me ask you this, because we talked about some
Mormon officials coming to your home. Did that begin after

(02:39:39):
this incident of oral sex in the park?

Speaker 3 (02:39:42):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:39:45):
What was that? Also before you went to Aerinberg. What
were these I say Mormon officials, but are these what
we would call missionaries?

Speaker 3 (02:39:56):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:39:59):
How often would these missionaries come to your home?

Speaker 3 (02:40:03):
I think they came on average two times a week.

Speaker 4 (02:40:08):
And what what went on when they when they came
to your home.

Speaker 3 (02:40:16):
The first time? They came. I think they had made
an appointment. They invited me to church every week. They
they have a system in the Mormon Church when you're
introducing somebody to the church for the first time, they're
called discussions, and there are there's a discussion you take first,

(02:40:37):
and then second, third, and on, which sort of introduces
you to the church. How it was founded truths that
that they believe in.

Speaker 4 (02:40:51):
Okay, let me ask you as part of this these meetings,
in this process, those meetings you were having with the missionaries,
and I brought up earlier the vow of chastity, did
they speak to you about that? No, not that I okay,

(02:41:16):
when did you learn of the vow of chastity? To
your recollection, I think.

Speaker 3 (02:41:23):
Actually prior to my baptism, those things were briefly explained
to me. They're young men, so they didn't really get
into detail.

Speaker 4 (02:41:33):
Okay, So from your perspective, this described since you've been there,
describe for us Arenberg. Is this a big town. Was
there a particular reason why you were going there? What
was the point of meeting in Ernburger?

Speaker 3 (02:41:52):
Yes, the point was so we could spend time together
and it was a halfway point. So he didn't have
to drive all the way to California because he hadn't
planned come out to California until the following month. And
I had never been to Arizona, so I wasn't even
thinking of going to Arizona. But Areinberg was about halfway, okay.

Speaker 4 (02:42:12):
And what was the plan? What were you from your impression?
What was what were you going to going to do
in Erinburgh?

Speaker 3 (02:42:24):
We were going to hang out and we'd talked extensively
over the month, so I thought there would be more conversation,
probably some intimacy that was hinted at heavily, so that
was expected.

Speaker 4 (02:42:39):
What do you mean the intimacy was heavily hinted at? That?
Telling me what he said was did he express a
desire to be intimate with you? Again? Yes, I'm a
little confused because it seemed like you would talk to
us before about after this incident park how mister Alexander

(02:43:02):
had expressed some misgivings about what happened. Did he express
those misgivings before meeting you in Erinburgh? No?

Speaker 3 (02:43:11):
After that.

Speaker 4 (02:43:13):
Some question she hasn't even got a word ahead of
her mouth, And no, ask another question. You were going
to Erinburgh with the idea that at least partially that
some innimate encounters might take place. Yes, and mister Alexander

(02:43:40):
never expressed any misgivings about those encounters.

Speaker 3 (02:43:44):
Incorrect, No, that was kind of the purpose.

Speaker 4 (02:43:48):
And by intimate encounters, what to your understanding were you
expecting at least from the sexually speaking.

Speaker 3 (02:44:01):
Maybe more of the same as before, but nothing further
than that. I mean, that's kind of pretty far, but
nothing beyond that.

Speaker 4 (02:44:09):
Okay. So at this point in time, based on what
you told us, it's our understanding that you had not
had penile vaginal intercourse with mister Alexander, and it would
also be understanding that you had not had anal sexual
intercourse with mister Alexander. Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (02:44:29):
Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 4 (02:44:30):
Tell us about Aaron Burke. Did you share one hotel
room as did you each have your own room?

Speaker 3 (02:44:39):
We had one hotel motel room.

Speaker 2 (02:44:41):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (02:44:43):
And when did you arrive in Aerinburger.

Speaker 3 (02:44:50):
I got there later than him because I had to
work and so I arrived late at night.

Speaker 4 (02:44:56):
Yeah, okay. Was this was this Friday night? Was this
Saturday night?

Speaker 3 (02:45:02):
I think it was like a Thursday or Friday night.
I don't remember. My exact schedule.

Speaker 4 (02:45:07):
But well, let me ask you this. How many nice
were you to spend in Erinburgh too? Tell us what
happened when you arrived when I arrived?

Speaker 3 (02:45:21):
He well, when I arrived, he came to the door
and let me in and then brought me over to
bed and we just started kissing.

Speaker 4 (02:45:34):
Okay. I assumed then that he was already in the room.

Speaker 3 (02:45:41):
Yes, he got the room.

Speaker 4 (02:45:46):
You said you started kissing. Was there conversation first or
did it immediately lead to kissing.

Speaker 3 (02:45:54):
No, we had some conversation over the phone on the
way there, so when I arrived it was physical right away.

Speaker 4 (02:46:02):
Okay, And we talked earlier. I mentioned earlier how kissing
could mean different things, could be the friendly to the passionate.
What sort of kissing was this.

Speaker 3 (02:46:16):
Passionate was?

Speaker 4 (02:46:19):
Was he attempting to remove your clothing?

Speaker 3 (02:46:25):
Yes, we both were taking off our clothes, I think.

Speaker 4 (02:46:30):
Okay, at this point in time. Was this level of
intimacy something that you felt comfortable with?

Speaker 3 (02:46:39):
At this point I was a little more comfortable with
it because we had been talking for a long time
and I felt like I knew him better. And also
I don't think I was as nervous because there wasn't
the first time that we were.

Speaker 4 (02:46:57):
Like that sure in your mind? Was this supposed to
be a romantic weekend if you will?

Speaker 3 (02:47:07):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:47:10):
Did it turn out to be that?

Speaker 3 (02:47:13):
Not too much romance? It wasn't everything I was expecting,
but I didn't have high expectations. But we didn't connect
really like we did on the phone.

Speaker 2 (02:47:28):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, tomorrow morning ten thirty am,
please remember the admonition for your planning purposes, we will
not have court this Thursday. You will be here tomorrow Wednesday,
but no court on Thursday.

Speaker 6 (02:47:45):
Have a nice evening. You are excused, Please be seated.

Speaker 2 (02:47:56):
You may step down right, Council, Is there any thing
else for.

Speaker 4 (02:48:01):
To day for you? Excuse me? M hm