Day 15

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Please be seated. The record will show the presence of
the jury, they defendant, and all counsel as areas. You
are still under oath. Do you understand? Yes, you may
proceed direct examination than four years.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
So we'd be moving to admit Exhibit four eight the
telephone conversation recorded phone call between Miss Arias and mister
Alexander testified to regarding mister Newmeister and just that conversation
the objection first into the record. We've made no objection.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Is admitted.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
More serious yesterday when we spoke. When we ended yesterday,
I guess we were talking about the time you spent
We were just getting into I guess the time you
spent with mister Alexander in Erin Burke. Correct, Yes, Okay,

(01:06):
before we get into that a little bit, let me
back up. Could you describe the town for Arenberg as
it was back in October two thousand and six when
you were there.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
I don't recall it size, but it was very small.
I think there was only one or two exits maybe,
and it's in the middle of the desert. I think
it's actually in California, but it's right on the border.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Apart from the midpoint that you described yesterday being a
midpoint between you and mister Alexander. Was there any other
particular reason or activity that you were going to go
to Aerinburg.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I was driving out there specifically to hang out with Travis.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
But when you got there, there wasn't a particular lake
or a particular site park or whatever that you were
going to go to.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
No, not that I was wherever that we had planned.
It's not exactly a tourist destination.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Now, yesterday you began to tell us about arriving at
the hotel room, and I believe your words were making
out with mister Alexander. Right, if you could just kind
of describe for it, and this was if within minutes
of you arriving till of our understanding.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yes, didn't happened pretty quickly.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Okay, just go begin again describing what happened during this
makeout session. As you describe it.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
You mean, like in detail. Yes, Well, he opened the
door for me because he had the room key, and
he took my hand and walked me over to the bed,
sort of kind of hold me, but walked me and
I went willingly. Of course, we started kissing, got a

(03:01):
little more intense, a little more passionate, and then soon
we were both nude on the bed, and there were
certain things that he said that well like it. It's

(03:21):
not I don't know. We didn't have intercourse so to speak.
I mean there was oral sex that weekend, but in
that particular day we did what I guess he called
at that time. He called it grinding. So it's kind
of like, you know, just being together but not actually
having intercourse. That's something that that I guess a lot

(03:46):
of Mormons do, but they're not supposed to. There are
different terms for it, like the probo push, and that's
a Mormon implication cause it's in Utah. This is what
I learned, So I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Okay, besides the grinding, uh and the oral sex, you
said you didn't have intercourse during this account this firstay.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
Caunt not vaginal intercourse or did you.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Have anal intercourse? No, just oral sex. And this would
have been when to recount for us? Was this Thursday evening.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yesterday? I couldn't remember whether it was Thursday or Friday,
but I remember it was Thursday because we spent two
nights there and he had to leave on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
So you spent Thursday and Friday night together he left
on Saturday.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yes, we both parted ways on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Okay, So after this first encounter where there was oral
sex and were you giving or receiving the oral sex both?

(05:14):
After this encounter, what happened? What did you do? After
this was over?

Speaker 3 (05:20):
There wasn't really anything to do for a while. We
just that night, we stayed in the room, eventually went
to sleep. He just flipped on the TV and we
watched It might have been Friday night, but we watched
some game shows, Deal or No Deal, different things. He
was just flipping through the channels.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Did you engage in any more sexual activity on Thursday night?

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Not after that?

Speaker 2 (05:50):
The next day? You wake up? What do you do?
Do you go out and do something?

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Or what happens the next day? We were trying to
find some way to spend the day and the town
of Blythe is near Arenberg, so we decided to drive
to Blythe because there was a small movie theater there
and we watched a movie. We went to Sizzler, got
something to eat.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Let me ask you this, did you engage in any
sexual behavior before you went to the movie?

Speaker 3 (06:19):
I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Did you engage in any sexual behavior? After the movie.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yes, and.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
What behave? What behavior did you engage.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
In that was or.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Was this again mutual?

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (06:39):
You mentioned previously that this you saw this as somewhat
of a romantic weekend with Travis. Was that what it
was turning out to be? No, when you weren't engaged
in sex activity, how was he treating you?

Speaker 3 (07:03):
He wasn't treating me bad. He just seemed checked out,
you know the whole time we were checked in, he
was just kind of distant. We connected, I thought we
connected a lot over the phone, and it was different
when we were together. Well over the phone, we would
talk for hours at a time about things, not just

(07:27):
about sex, but other things, things of a spiritual nature
and just every subject that you could imagine, pleasant things,
And we were discovering things that we had in common
in ways we were different. And when we when we
went to Hreinberg, I was expecting the same kind of

(07:50):
energy or connection, but it would just be in person.
There wasn't much of a mental or emotional connection like
there was on the phone. Just primarily physical.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
What's that?

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Primarily physical?

Speaker 2 (08:05):
And if you could do us a favorite speak up again?
I know we're having trouble hearing you about were at
this point in time were you and mister Alexander? Would
you consider yourselves to be in a relationship.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
No, it wasn't anything defined. We were sort of seeing
each other, but we were definitely not boyfriend girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
How many, well you said on how many sexual interactions
did you have with mister Alexander over this time in Arenburger, I.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Would say three, I mean total, if you just you know.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Okay, And these were all instances of sexual or excuse me,
oral sex.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
No, like the first night it was the grinding in
the next night was.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Oral sex, okay? And what was third account?

Speaker 3 (09:00):
It was oral sex also it was before we left.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Did he ever express a desire during this weekend to
engage in anal sex with you?

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (09:15):
And did he over the course of that weekend in
Ehrenberg expressed a desire to have a vaginal sex with you?
But you do it appears space on what you told us,
you declined his desire to have anal sex. Is that correct?

Speaker 4 (09:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (09:33):
He was, Yeah, I did. I just yes, I didn't.
We did not have anal sex, okay.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
In expressing his desire for that was he was that
something he did repeatedly or is that something that just
came up one time.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
It didn't just come up one time. He wasn't overly
persistent about it, but it was somewhat repeated.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Apart from going to a movie and out to eat
and Blythe as you just described, what else and the
sexual encounters? What else did you do to path.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
Well, we made music CDs or he made CDs on
his computer with his music, some music that he liked
that he was making for me. He shared more things
from the Book of Mormond with me? What else did
we do? Mostly it involved if we weren't in Blythe

(10:42):
were on he was watching television. Other than those other
two activities.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Now in terms and at this point in time October
two thousand and six, are you have received several visits
from the missionaries right from where you just yes? By
that time, had you had occasion to whether it's through

(11:11):
the missionaries, through mister Alexander, through church visits, through your
own readings, had you ever learned about what we're calling
the vow of chastity?

Speaker 5 (11:25):
It was mentioned, It was mentioned to me, not in detail,
and in October of two thousand and six, when you're.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
In excuse me not blithe but in Erinburgh with mister Alexander,
what was your understanding of that vow?

Speaker 3 (11:48):
According to the missionaries, they were very sort of glossed
over it and they didn't really gloss over that understanding.
Was okay? I understand that question.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
What was your understanding? Not telling us what somebody said
to you, but what was your understanding of what the
vow meant?

Speaker 3 (12:10):
What it prohibited, hm, no premarital sex?

Speaker 2 (12:19):
And did you have an understanding of how that was
defined within within the law? I mean, did it mean
no penal vaginal intercourse? Did it mean no kissing? What?
What did that mean to you?

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, it was explained to me by Travis.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
I'm sure what is your understanding that was territ What
was your understanding?

Speaker 3 (12:49):
My understanding was that it meant that vaginal sex was
off limits and everything else was more or less okay?

Speaker 2 (12:56):
And who gave you that understanding?

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Travis?

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Now you talked about departing, both you and mister Alexander
leaving Saturday morning. Tell us about that.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Saturday morning. We got breakfast at the neighboring truck stop restaurant. Again,
there wasn't much connection. We were just there wasn't a
lot of conversation. I'm sorry, I forgot the question.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, what I'm asking is describe for us the Saturday
morning when you left. You said you had breakfast. What
happened who left first?

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Okay, after breakfast, we left at the same time. We
checked out, and I took a picture of him. He
was in a suit and tie. He had to go
to a super said, I hear in Phoenix. It was
one of the regional events in prepaid legal, and so

(14:08):
he hit the road for Arizona, I mean from Phoenix
and I went back to Palm Desert.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
And how far how far drive us Palm Desert from
aaron Berg, as best you can recall.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
I want to say three hours, maybe somewhere around that.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Mark tell us how you felt leaving Aerinburg that Saturday
morning and driving back.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Well, when we parted, there was a lot of affection.
So I kind of felt disappointed, not upset, just kind
of bummed out a little bit. I don't know, kind
of felt stupid.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Stupid hell.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
I was replaying the weekend, or it was it was
my weekend. I was replaying that weekend, and it just
I kind of wish things had gone a little bit differently.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
What do you mean by that.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Maybe just I had I wish that we had had
more of a connection, a meeting of minds. Rather well,
I didn't. I didn't dislike the physical part, but it
seemed like it was missing an important element.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
What important element was it missing?

Speaker 3 (15:32):
The emotion? And, like I said, just the mental connection,
some kind of being on the same page, so to speak.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
So you you didn't feel as you were leaving, you
didn't feel any kind of emotional connection or like you
had grown closer with mister Alexander. Is that what you're
telling us?

Speaker 3 (15:56):
I didn't feel like we'd grown closer. He seemed more distant.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
How did you feel in retrospect about the sexual behavior
you engaged in with mister Alexander? Do you feel okay?
Was it still too far too soon?

Speaker 3 (16:15):
It didn't feel like too much too soon anymore, because
over that month we had really gotten to know each
other very well. I developed feelings for him, and it
just seemed it was confusing though even though it wasn't.
It was a little confusing the sex.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
What do you mean what was confusing about it?

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Well? I mean I guess just where the where the
line should be drawn?

Speaker 2 (16:45):
I guess, And what do you mean by by line,
your line, the vow of chassy. What kind of line
are you speaking of?

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Well, to me, sex sex, they're just different ways to
have sex. And it seemed like it seemed like Travis
was kind of I don't know how to put it,
but it just seemed like he sort of had like

(17:17):
the Bill Clinton version, whereas over here it seemed like,
you know, oral and anal sex were also sex to me,
but not for him.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
And the line that you're talking about, that line of
demarcation really sounds like that that dealt with avowed chastity.
Is that accurate?

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (17:44):
Yeah, when you were reflecting back on the weekend and
your way back to Palm Desert, did you consider your
actions in your own his but your own actions as
it relates to.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
That vow of chastity?

Speaker 3 (18:07):
I considered it.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
And how did you feel about that?

Speaker 3 (18:13):
Well? I trusted what I was told by him, so
I didn't feel like we were sinning. I just felt
I felt a little bit, I hate to put it
this way, but I felt a little bit used. But
I knew I had gone there on my own willingly.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
So what do you mean though, that you've felt used?

Speaker 3 (18:36):
Well, you know, he gets a hotel room. I show up,
We hang out, we have sex. He's not really there presently,
He's not mentally present. I'm getting a lot of attention,
but only while we're engaging in sexual activity. And then
we check out and he takes off, and I kind
of felt like like a prostitute sort of.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
You didn't feel real good about the relationship or how
he treated you at that point, right.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
I was more upset with myself. I didn't feel like
he mistreated me, but I didn't feel like he was
treating me as well as he had been for that
entire life.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Do you hear from you discussed earlier what was seemingly
near daily contact with mister Alexander on the phone in
the evenings. Did you speak with him that Saturday evening
when you got back home.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
No. I called him later, but we did not. He
didn't return my call.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
When after? Did you hear from him on Sunday?

Speaker 3 (19:50):
No? I called him one more time Sunday evening, left
a voicemail and he didn't return my call.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Was that abnormal for him not to return your call?

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Maybe? One night? Not really? I did want to know
if you made it home safely, But I wasn't trying
to be his mother, but I was concerned about if
he made it home, made it back safely Sunday night.
He usually he began to call me very late at
night by this point, so I just I would leave

(20:22):
a voicemail if I was going to sleep, and sometimes
he wouldn't call me back if I told him I
had to sleep. Sometimes he would call anyway and wake
me up. But by Monday morning, when he had not returned.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Both of my calls, well, let me let me back
up a step and ask you this. You'd said on Saturday,
you're driving home, You're feeling used. You call him Saturday night,
you don't get a return call. How are you feeling
Sunday or about the weekend? Are you feeling the same way?

(20:52):
Have your feelings changed on Sunday before? Not?

Speaker 3 (20:55):
They hadn't really changed. I wasn't. I was trying not
to think about it much or put too much thought
into it or over analyze it.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
After feeling the way you did on Saturday when you
came back, when you were driving back and feeling the
same way Sunday, why would you want to speak with
him at all?

Speaker 3 (21:14):
I just had feelings for him.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Were you in love with him at that time.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
I wouldn't say in love, but I had warm feelings
for him, still sort of in the crush realm, but
a little stronger.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
So those feelings for him were more prominent than your
feelings for yourself about being used? Is that what you're
telling us?

Speaker 3 (21:39):
Can you repeat that question? I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
You told us a few moments ago how you felt
used as you were driving back from Aeronburgh, But you
also told us that you had feelings for mister Alexander,
and that's why you were reaching out to him on
Saturday evening and Sunday evening. What I'm asking you is
if your feelings for mister Alexander were stronger than your

(22:07):
feelings for being used? Yes, when you did not hear
from him over these two days, did your feelings how
did your feelings about being used? Do they become stronger?
Did they become weaker?

Speaker 3 (22:31):
I think I began to think, well, I sent him
a text message on Monday, so by that time he
still didn't return any of those three attempts. So by
that point I was beginning to think that I had
been very stupid and about what he wanted, and he
wasn't interested in me anymore.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
When you started feeling like stupid and he got what
he wanted and he wasn't interested in you anymore. Were
you then in a position that you wanted to write
him off? Or were you in a position where you
wanted to hear from him?

Speaker 3 (23:07):
I can't say really either. I just I wasn't thinking
of writing him off. I think if he was moving on,
I would have liked at least have known.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
You know. Okay, when did you get a response, if
at all, from mister Alexander.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
It would have been Tuesday evening. I was at a
business briefing and he called during the middle of that,
and I didn't hear my phone because it was turned
off or the volume was the ringer was turned off,
and so I checked afterward and he had called and
left me a very nice voicemail.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Did you wind up talking with mister Alexander after he
left the voicemail?

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yes? I called him after the meeting.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Did the I want to know what he said. But
did your conversation with him then make you feel less
like you were used when you were in Erinburgh?

Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yes, it was more reassuring. He wasn't reassuring me, but
the nature of the call was reassuring to me.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Did you ever express your feelings to him about how
you felt used when you were driving home?

Speaker 3 (24:30):
No?

Speaker 2 (24:31):
What was that?

Speaker 3 (24:32):
No?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Why not?

Speaker 3 (24:34):
I didn't want to make him feel bad. I also
was telling myself that maybe that was just all in
my head and that's you know, I was misinterpreting it
or overanalyzing it, and it wasn't that big of a deal.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
So it sounds like after this phone conversation you have
on Tuesday, everything is back to status quo in terms
of yours feelings towards mister Alexander. Is that accurate? Do
these phone calls we heard about, about these long spiritual conversations,

(25:11):
do they then begin again after this call on Tuesday?

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yes, the same routine, the same subject matters.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
And those subject matters being more spiritual. Were they also sexual?

Speaker 3 (25:26):
They were spiritual sexual and other things.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
When do you recall seeing mister alec.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
I think it was right before Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
And you recall the reason for that meeting with him.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
He was on his way to Riverside, where he was
going to spend Thanksgiving, and Palm Desert is on the way,
so he stopped at my house and we hung out
for a little while, and then he continued on to Rivers.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Now you were when were you baptized into the Mormon Church?

Speaker 3 (26:04):
November twenty sixth.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
So of what year, two thousand and six, so this
would have been Was this the the and who baptized you?

Speaker 3 (26:20):
Travis baptized me.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
This visit you're mentioning, was that when he baptized you?
Or was this a distinct visit?

Speaker 3 (26:30):
No, this was a distinct visit.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
It was right before thanks Were you baptized before or
after Thanksgiving?

Speaker 3 (26:36):
After Thanksgiving? I think was on the twenty second that year, Well,
the twenty six would have been on a Sunday, so
whatever the previous.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
This meeting then was at your home in Palm Desert.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yes, I think it was the day before, on the.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Wednesday, okay, the day before Thanksgiving?

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Yes, right before Thanksgiving, so probably Wednesday?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Okay? And where did you wind up meeting him?

Speaker 3 (27:02):
He came to my house with his dog.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Was Daryl still living in the house at this time?

Speaker 3 (27:09):
I think Daryl was still living in the house, but
he was at work.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Okay, So tell us about what happens when he arrives
at your home.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Well, this was the first time he was he had
seen my house, so I just walked him around the
property briefly. It's not a big property, but he wanted
to see the pool. His dog jumped in the pool
and sank right to the bottom, so that was scary.
I guess pugs don't swim, So he jumped in with

(27:42):
his clothes and everything gone to save his dog, and
I took him and we put him inside so he
wouldn't do that again. So Travis was soaking wet at
that point, so he took a hot shower because in
November the pool is freezing, and I threw his in
the dryer so that they would dry off and warm up.

(28:03):
And we were intimate again, and then me said goodbye.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
You said intimate? How were you intimate?

Speaker 3 (28:19):
I don't recall exactly. It would have been oral sex
or the grinding again, that's all we were doing at
that point.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Okay, during this particular account, did he again ask you
to have anal sex with him? Yes, but no anosex
took place during that on that day.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
No, it was more like teasing and I.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
After did he ejaculate it?

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (28:55):
And after he ejaculated.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
He left shortly thereafter.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
You're on a May approach.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
It's serious.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
I wanna show you what has been marked as a
ghibits three ninety three and three ninety four. Be so
kind as to take a look at those. Do you
recognize those?

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (29:24):
What are those pictures of?

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Those are pictures of Travis's erection?

Speaker 2 (29:31):
And when did you or how did you uh come
into possession of these photos?

Speaker 3 (29:39):
They were sent to me how uh via his phone.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Via uh D a text message or picture message picture message?

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Kay, his phone on my phone.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
There are nin exhibits three ninety three, three ninety four.
There's a lack of foundation. If we took a day,
Yoda sustained Messarius. Would you like to see the photos
again in terms of the day that they were received
or you?

Speaker 3 (30:09):
I think I remember the day?

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Uh l.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Let me have you take a look then and see
if you can tell us the day that they will received.
Do you retroll now?

Speaker 3 (30:23):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Is that date on the photo reflect the day that
you received it?

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (30:28):
That would have been a second and this was before
he came your home in Palm Desert, Yes, your honor,
I would again moved to admit exhibits three ninety three
and three ninety four.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Okay, what's that a somebody gets just another set it.
But Jody, what day was it that you received them?

Speaker 3 (30:48):
It was November eleven, two thousand six.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
I'm sorry, did okay? Kind of eighty seven?

Speaker 3 (30:54):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (30:54):
Yes, three ninety three and three ninety four were admitted.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Permission the publish unner. Yes, and you said this came
to you, uh via uh phone message? Is this something
that you had uh solicited from him?

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Not directly. I didn't expect a photograph. But we were flirting.
You were we flirting.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
That is a picture of his erection that he sent you.
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (31:28):
And you were saying you were flirting. What do you
mean by flirting?

Speaker 3 (31:32):
I was at I was in Anaheim at the Anaheim Grove,
and I was at a super Saturday for that area,
and I was listening to speakers when we began to text,
and I was we were just text messaging back and forth.

(32:01):
I mean, it kind of became it turned flirty, and
then it turned sexual and it went on for hours actually,
just back and forth, just trying to be witty and
top each other's last comments.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
And in that regard, in order to talk to your
last comment, he sent you this picture.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
It act that actually culminated at the restaurant after we
left the growth. Uh, he wasn't there, he was Amazon.
I was with other people. So we were at the
restaurant when my phone beeped. I didn't know. I didn't.
I hadn't received pictures on that phone before. So when

(32:42):
I opened, I showed I had a message from him,
and I opened it and I couldn't find it, and
then I realized it was a file that I had
to I don't know if I had to open it
or go into a different folder to see it. And
then I realized what it was, and I s I
shut my phone really quick. It was a flip phone.

Speaker 6 (33:00):
And movie.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Uh, is just shown you for the record three ninety
three and then three ninety four. It appears these are
different photos? Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (33:15):
Yeah? Yes, they're different.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
So he sent you two photos that day? Yes, OK,
consecutive mysterious when he did that? Was he also requesting.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
That you reciprocate?

Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Did you reciprocate with photos?

Speaker 6 (33:39):
No?

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Not that day?

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Why not?

Speaker 3 (33:44):
I was at a restaurant and I I don't know
how to really explain it.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Without Well, did you Stan, did you want to reciprocate?
M not?

Speaker 3 (34:00):
No, I didn't, but I knew he wanted to, so
I was a little bit conflicted, but I said.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
No, how did he react to your refusal to send
him a picture?

Speaker 3 (34:15):
He he felt it should be fair kind of like that,
Like he didn't say that, but he had been requesting
photos for a while at this point.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
And what was he requesting photos of.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Naked pictures.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Of you? Yes, of particular body parts or or did
he make any specifics requests?

Speaker 3 (34:52):
No, I didn't specify body parts that I remember.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Up to the point in time when you received this picture,
these pictures of his erection, you had not sent him
any pictures. Is that right? Yes, after the point in time,
And I don't want to get too far down the
road in the story, but after the point in time
that he sent you those pictures, did you then feel

(35:24):
a level of guilt for not reciprocating.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yes, I didn't want to disappoint him. I felt like
I had disappointed him, and he seemed very disappointed.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Anyway, Okay, now I want to spend some time talking
about did you say your baptism took place on November
twenty six of two thousand and six, Is that right?

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Yes, that's right.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Okrect, we heard a little bit from mister Freeman about
the process, but I want to hear about what you
went through leading up to it. Okay, I'd like to
discuss that now. Okay, do you remember a particular point

(36:19):
in time, maybe a month, a year, that you decided
you wanted to join the Mormon fate.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
It was a series of experiences that brought me to
make that decision.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Ultimately, describe for us what you mean by series of experiences.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Well, the first the first week the missionaries came, they
invited me to church that following Sunday. This time i'd
actually slept, so I was able to pay attention to
what was being said, and someone was giving a talk
and what that person said was very impactful and something

(37:04):
that I had not heard other Christians embraced before. But
it was something that I personally embraced and I liked.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
What was that? If you recall.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Am I allowed to say what he said?

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Well, just tell us the general subject subject matter of
it was.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
It was an acceptance and intolerance of all faiths in
the world, basically.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
And you found that aspect of the Mormon faith to
be in line with your own personal beliefs, right, yes, okay,
describe for us an you were talking about these experience
as a series of experience, what other experiences led you
to believe or led you to choose to be baptizing

(37:52):
the Mormon faith.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
The more Travis and I talked about the church a lot,
and I asked him any questions I had. I asked
the missionaries also, but I was able to ask Travis
a few more questions on a personal level, and not
necessarily a sexual level, but just things that I wasn't
comfortable asking two twenty year old guys. So the more

(38:19):
that I discovered about the church, the more I realized
that it did not conflict with my beliefs in it.
It was in alignment with a lot of the values
that I had, and especially the family values and the
emphasis they place on families and marriage and the importance thereof.

(38:43):
And I didn't like the no coffee rule. I I
almost I couldn't imagine giving up coffee at that point.
I drink it every morning and sometimes in the evenings,
but that was the only thing that bothered me. There
was no alcohol, but I wasn't really a drinker anyway,
so that didn't bother me. But just everything seemed to

(39:09):
line up for me as far as my beliefs and
the lifestyle that I was that I was interested in leading.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Once you made this decision internally in terms of wanting
to be baptized, how do you move from How did
you move from that point in time to November twenty
sixth when you were actually baptized? Was there a process
you went through with the church. Could you just kind
of explain that to us?

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yes, the missionaries finally asked me if I was ready
to be baptized, and I told them yes, So they
set up an interview with another young man, I think
he was an elder, and he asked me a series
of questions. It's like an interview that you have right
before you're baptized to see if you're ready to be baptized.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
And when did this interview? If you know the date, fine,
if not relative to when you were baptized. When did
this interview take place?

Speaker 3 (40:15):
It was sometime in November, but I don't remember the
exact time. It was close to my baptism.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Date as it relates, Well, let me ask you this,
what sort of subjects were What sort of questions were
you asked? What were the subject matter. The questions that
you were asked during this pre baptismal interview.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
So long ago, I don't remember the exact questions, but
they were. They asked questions about your belief in Jesus
Christ and the veracity of the Book of Mormon, and
about your belief in Joseph Smith being a prophet of God.
And if you have been obeying the word of wisdom,

(41:03):
which is the coffee and tea, et cetera. And if
you've been obeying the love of chastity, which to my
understanding at that time was I guess different.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Let me ask you about that. You said you were
asked if you are obeying the law of chastity? Right,
you were asked that during the yea, and your understanding
of the law of chastity was abstaining from penile vaginal intercourse.

(41:41):
That's what your understanding was. Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (41:44):
So when you were asked that question, you're based on
your understanding, you believe that you were indeed in line
with a vow of chastity. Is that accurate or yes?

Speaker 3 (41:58):
In a technical sense, I believe I was.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Okay, and that belief was based on the things that
mister Alexander was telling you yes. So after this interview,
what happened? Are you approved to be baptized? What is
the process from that point on?

Speaker 3 (42:16):
I wasn't approved right away because I told the person
that Daryl still lived in the house, and so he
said he'd have to check since he was an ex
boyfriend and he's the opposite sex, and that's discouraged in
the church to live under the same roof as somebody
of the opposite sex who's not family or not your spouse.

(42:37):
So he checked, and then I interviewed, I think with
another I think was the branch president, just to check,
and he wanted to make sure that we were in
separate bedrooms and that that wasn't going to be an
ongoing living situation. And Daryl had plans to move in
about another week and a half or two weeks back
to Monterey, so we were going to postpone the baptism,

(42:57):
but the branch president said that he feels that the
baptism should go forward as scheduled instead of postponing it
till after Jeral moved.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Okay, and it was scheduled for the twenty six. Is
that the original day was scheduled for yes, Okay, so
you get this approval. I guess how many days beforehand

(43:26):
you do you get the approval versus the day you're
actually baptized.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
I would say roughly a week. I don't remember exactly
it wasn't it was close to the date.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Okay, So you were aware of your impending baptism when
mister Alexander came to visit.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
You at your home, Yes, I believe I was.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
How was who baptized you into.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
The ny faith, Travis baptizing?

Speaker 2 (43:57):
How was that decision made that he was to be
the person to baptize you.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Well, when I decided I was going to get baptized,
there was a period in early November I think, or
maybe it was mid November. Travis had been a little
more distant again. So I was kind of questioning where
we were going with things on that I still wanted

(44:24):
to get baptized. And when I asked the missionaries, well,
when they had told me if I would ask me
if I was ready, and I told them yes. I
asked if his name was Elder Jensen. I asked if
he would do it, because he had second to Travis.
He had taught me so much about the church at
that point, and he had said that it's better.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Stop being offered. For the truth of the matter, it
reprise the question, did he accept your invitation to baptize you?

Speaker 3 (45:01):
He didn't know. He didn't accept it.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
He didn't to your understanding, why not.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
I don't recall exactly what he said, but he encouraged
me to find somebody.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Exactly what he said, oh.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Do me answer. I remember the essence of it, and
that was that he encouraged me to find somebody, not
him or his partner, not one.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Of the missionaries, apart from them, from those individuals, and
mister Alexander, at this point in time, did you have
a close relationship with any other members of the church
that would be that would have the ability to baptize you?

Speaker 3 (45:51):
Not a close relationship. I had acquaintances and nobody really
in that area except the small branch. I didn't hang
out with them too much point so not really.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Okay, So how did you then come to the point
in time that you decided that you wanted Travis to
baptize you.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
He was the only person I could think of, and
he was the person that I was initially thinking of also,
so I decided to go ahead, and well, he asked
me first if I was had decided whether or not
I was going to be baptized, And I told him yes,

(46:37):
and he said, that's great social.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Hearsay, it's a good conversation. Nay, sorry, mister Alexander was
happy to learn that you were being baptized.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
He was happy to learn that. Yes.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Did you then invite him to baptize you?

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Did you recall when you made that invitation?

Speaker 1 (47:04):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
It would have been November. I don't remember the exact date.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Did this happen in person or did this happen over
the telephone?

Speaker 3 (47:15):
It was over the phone.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Where did your baptism take place in Palm Desert? What
was involved? We'll just describe for us your baptism. Is
it just you and mister Alexander? Are there other people involved?

Speaker 3 (47:36):
No, many people were invited. I think it's open to
anyone attending, especially church members. Non members are encouraged to attend. Also, Travis,
I don't remember if he invited them or if I
invited them, but the hues came out a few other

(47:58):
people in the business that were church members came to
my baptism.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Did you invite uh your family?

Speaker 3 (48:08):
No? They lived eleven twelve hours away, So I didn't I.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Told them what.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
You didn't invite them? Were you under the impression that
they wouldn't have Well, I mean.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
If they could teleport there, they'd be there, but they
certainly wouldn't make the effort to come out there for
that event.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Prior to you being baptized, had your family expressed misgivings
about you joining the church? Yes, we say your family.
Are we talking about the immediate family? Your your your parents,
your grandparents, and your brothers and sisters.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
Yes, and parents, siblings and friends.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
So pretty much everyone in your From what you're telling us,
it sounds like pretty much everyone in your immediate c
discouraged you from joining the church.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Did you invite mister Brower to attend?

Speaker 3 (49:12):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Did he attend? So tell us what well that you
mentioned the ceremony? Were you how did you feel that
day of knowing that you were going to be baptized?

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Before the ceremony, I was a little nervous because I
didn't know what the process entailed, but I was excited.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
And how was the tell us? Tell us what occurred
during your ceremony?

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Well, we had chairs set up and a small podium
in another room, not in the main chapel, but it's
still at the church building, and people took their seats.
There were some hymns. We opened with a prayer. There
were some hymns that we sang, and a few talks
that were given on a few different subjects. And I

(50:10):
don't remember if another hymn was saying. But then I
was led into the font. I went into the back
and then Travis was already in the font.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
What's you said? The font? What is the font?

Speaker 3 (50:23):
The best I can describe it as a very big,
like a giant bathtube that filled with water about waste
level when you're.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Standing up, okay, and you said, mister Alexander was back there.
What takes place when you go towards the font?

Speaker 3 (50:40):
Well, before entering the font, I changed into an all
white kind of like a jumpsuit. And then there's some
steps that lead into the font.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
And what happens when what happens when you go into
the font?

Speaker 3 (50:58):
It was a lot like Dan described. You walk up
and Travis held his hand up and said some kind
of invocation or prayer or blessing. I don't know what
it's called. You made a declaration so to speak, and
then I was dipped into the water and came back up.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
And how did it feel for you to be baptized?
Were you elated? Did you feel very spiritual? Can you
describe that feeling?

Speaker 3 (51:26):
It was a very peaceful feeling.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Now, after the official baptism, the rich the ritual you
just talked about, after that is over? Are there more services?
Is there a reception for those of us who aren't familiar.
Could you please just kind of take us through that experience.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Are you talking about what happens after the baptism? Okay?
I went back into the designated area. I guess where
for the ladies where they can change. I change was
changing into my clothes. Sky Hughes came into that area
to see to check on me. After that, we went

(52:11):
back into the main area where everybody was still hanging
out and just talking about whatever, just plans for the week,
things like that. I think we might have closed with
the prayer, but I don't remember. I just remember everything
was sort of dispersing after shortly after I was out
of the water.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Okay, And how did you get back home that day?

Speaker 3 (52:37):
That day?

Speaker 2 (52:38):
I drove Okay, did you drive by yourself? No?

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Travis came with me.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Tell us what happened when you got back to the house.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
We got back to the house. His car was parked
at my house, so we took my car to church.
So we got back to the house, went inside, and
we hugged yea, words were exchanged.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
What happened after you hugged in and words were exchanged?

Speaker 3 (53:14):
We began to kiss and things got intimate again.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Was that place of intimacy a place you were thinking
about going on this spiritual day?

Speaker 3 (53:29):
Not how it ultimately happened?

Speaker 2 (53:31):
No, what do you mean how it ultimately happened? Described
for us? What happened after you and mister Alexander started
kissing that that day.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
Well, we were in my bedroom. We were not on
the bed, but we were standing next to it, and
we were kissing. And I was in my church clothes,
he was in his church clothes. Kissing got more passionate,

(54:07):
more intense, and then he spun me around and he
bent me over the bed and he was just on
top of me. I didn't think anything was but he
was just gonna keep kissing me.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
What happened when he bent you over the bed? Were
you face down on the bed or face out?

Speaker 3 (54:30):
I was face down. I had misterned inside.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
And what happened?

Speaker 3 (54:39):
His hands were wandering and he lifted up my skirt
and and he pulled down my underwear and he was
pressing against me. What do you mean pressing against it
his whole body?

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Did he have an erection?

Speaker 3 (54:57):
I could feel an erection.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
What happened?

Speaker 3 (55:03):
He ends up his pants and I guess he pulled
it down. I didn't see, but he he began to
have anal sex with me.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
And you said that he had anal sex with you.
Based on what you said before, this wasn't something that
you were expecting to happen, No.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Not that night.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Is this something that you wanted to happen?

Speaker 3 (55:37):
Well, I can't say I wanted to, but I didn't
stop him.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
When he entered you. You said you didn't stop him.
Did you say anything? Did you tell him no?

Speaker 3 (55:51):
No?

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Was it pleasurable for you physically.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
That time? It was pain somewhat?

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Given that it was painful, why didn't you tell him no?

Speaker 3 (56:09):
Eventually I did. I probably would have just let him continue,
but it was became too painful.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Why do you say you probably just would have let
him continue.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
Because I knew that is what he had been wanting
for a while, and I just I trusted him. I
had a lot of trust and he I just went
with what he was with his agenda.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
I guess this agenda you describe him having and this
pain you were experiencing. Did this go on for several
minutes before you told him no?

Speaker 3 (56:51):
I don't think it went on too long. Not several minutes,
maybe a few.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
And from what you're telling us, it sounds like the
only reason that you told him no or told him
to stop was the pain, not your lack of interest
in this activity. Is that right?

Speaker 3 (57:16):
That's pretty accurate. I mean, I wasn't looking forward to it,
but definitely pain.

Speaker 8 (57:21):
I had to.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
I had to have him stop, otherwise I probably would
have continued otherwise what I probably would have continued if
it weren't for that.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Okay, After he stopped, was that the end of the
intimacy that day?

Speaker 3 (57:42):
He finished by ejaculating on my back or somewhere like
on me, and then we were finished. And then shortly,
I mean I think we parted ways. We guessed and embraced, and.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
He After this encounter on this spiritual day, how did
you feel about yourself?

Speaker 3 (58:21):
And after he left shortly after he left, I felt
I didn't feel very good. I kind of felt like
good used piece of toilet paper. I don't know, I didn't.
I didn't continue feeling that way just shortly thereafter. For
a little while, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
And then in late November of two thousand and six,
after your baptism, does mister Alexander stay in Palm Desert
to your knowledge? Or does he? Does he go back?

Speaker 3 (58:56):
He drove back to Mesa to my knowledge, you need
a moment, no thank you?

Speaker 2 (59:06):
After this incident on the twenty six, When was the
next time you spoke with mister Asan.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
I can't remember if it was that night or the
next night, but it was shortly after that.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Did the subject of the encounter, the anal sex you
just described, did that come up in your conversations?

Speaker 3 (59:47):
He wrote me a letter about it. We didn't discuss
it directly on the phone. We had discussed things of
that nature in the past.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Did you ever voice your displeasure with the incident to him? Only?

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
When I said.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
She's a declarant coach.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Overwaill do me answer? I kind of just said, through
clenched teeth, stops and he stopped. So I think he
got the impression that it was not pleasurable at that point,
But I never said anything about it after that of
a negative nature.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
So you never advised him that you felt like, as
I think you said, a used piece of toilet paper.
You never add that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
I wouldn't have told him that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
You would not have because that was you said. Why not?

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Because I don't think that would have made him feel
very good?

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
How about how you felt I was dealing with that?

Speaker 6 (01:00:54):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
So after this incident, you say you talk to him.
Are you talking doing then again on a near daily
basis or near nightly basis?

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
I'm yes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
And you mentioned these phone calls getting progressively later and later.
What time are we talking about a majority of these
phone calls taking place?

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
He almost stopped calling me completely before eleven o'clock eleven pm.
Usually it was closer to midnight, and sometimes it was
his late as three am. He would call him. We
would talk.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
These talks. Now, you mentioned in the past that they
were of a spiritual nature, personal nature, and a sexual nature.
Did that pattern persist in throughout November, I should say
November December.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Subsequent to this incident, Yeah, new subject matters were incorporated
regarding our futures, things like that, But for the most part,
that same kind of thing continued.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Well, let me ask you this, you say regarding the future.
Did that future? Was that related to the relationship prospects
between yourself and mister Alexander.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Prior to let's even make it specific to November twenty sixth,
were you and Travis boyfriend and girlfriend?

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
No, we were not.

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
When did you For the sake of discussion, now, when
did you become boyfriend and girlfriend?

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
We became boyfriend girlfriend. Well we didn't termine that, but
we became not initially, we became exclusive to my understanding,
on February two, two thousand and seven.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Okay, so it was a good two three months later
after this incident before you became exclusive or boyfriend and girlfriend.

Speaker 6 (01:03:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Now, as it relates to these times, and I want
to back up a little bit. When you were in
public with mister Alexander prior to November twenty sixth, did
you act publicly as if you were boyfriend and girlfriend?

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
No? Not in public.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
What about during the trip to Ehrenberg, I mean, were
you holding hands? Did you have your arm around each other?
Was that different than most of the other times.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Inside the motel room. Definitely inside the truck stop there's
the restaurant. Adjoins this Minnie Martin. He grabbed my butt
there there were some men standing by and he did
that right in front of them. And other than that,

(01:04:17):
I think he wasn't too affectionate a sizzler, I don't
really remember, but he was very affectionate inside the motel
room while we were being physical.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Okay, as you were having this, what was the beginnings
of a sexual relationship you've had these few sexual encounters,
were you under the impression that this was something that

(01:04:51):
was supposed to be kept a secret.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
I got that impression from different things, different hints and
clues and things that his friend said.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Is would that be Tho directly saying what they're saying?
Would that be directly related to the valichastity and Travis's
the belief that Travis was adhering to it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
I don't know. I believed that we were adhering to it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Okay, it was sorry, So even at the point in
time when you had this unwanted anal sex, you believed
you were complying with the valichastity by definition.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
It didn't really feel that way. But by definition I
did believe that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
In that regard, then there must have been some reason
why you felt like you couldn't tell anybody about these encounters, right, yes?
And what was that reason?

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
I don't typically talk about my sex life with people.
That was pretty much the simple reason.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Did mister Alexander know that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
He knew I was discreet? I didn't reveal anything about Darryl?

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Okay? Did he ask.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
In the beginning? He joked about it, but he didn't
press for too many details. I didn't give him any.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
So after November twenty six, when and you're still living
in Palm Desert, right yes? And Travis is still living
in Masa, right yes? And it sounds to me like
in this point in time in the story you hadn't

(01:06:50):
come to visit him in Masa? Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
Yes? I had never been to Arizona.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Okay, let's talk about then the next time you saw
mister Alexander. When was that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
It was about? It was the Friday following the Sunday
I was baptized.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
And where did that meeting take place?

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
At his house?

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
His house in Mesa?

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Yes, okay?

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
And what was the what was the plan? Were you
coming out there for a weekend. Were you coming out
there for a long time? What was the idea of
the purpose of the visit.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
There was another regional event happening at Super Saturday in
Phoenix with a special guest speaker that was flying in
was really big in the company. So a ton of
people were car pulling, caravanning out from California, and I
was part of the caravan, and we all think there
were three or four vehicles. They were coming from Paris, California,

(01:08:03):
Marino Valley, Marietta, other southern California towns, and Palm Desert
is on the way. So that was the last stop
where he met the met Carl's junior and we all
got on the road and drove together for the most
most of the drive.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Okay, when you in this this event in Mesa, I'm
assuming this wasn't it mister Alexander's home.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
Was that right the event?

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
No, it was in Phoenix.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
Okay, so you caravan, you you carpoled with these these
people from California. You get to this meeting in Phoenix.
Is this where you see mister Alexander at this meeting?

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
No, we went to his house first on Friday night,
the event was Saturday morning.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Okay, you say we who is we?

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Me? And do you want me to name names?

Speaker 9 (01:09:00):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Okay, just some of the people you were you were
carpolling with.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
Yes, his friends and people that were in the company.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
What was the purpose of going to mister Alexander's house?
Were you staying there? Could you just describe that for us?

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
Yes, a bunch of people from out of state were
coming to his house and we were all going to
crash there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Okay. And what were what were the sleeping arrangements to be.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
Well, the sleeping arrangements after we got after we got there,
he was we were determining those things.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Let me ask you this prior to obviously, mister Alexander,
you knew you were coming out to this event, right, Yes.
Did he give any indications to you that while you
were in Mesa? And how many days was this going
to be?

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
It's Saturday and we would leave. We'll be rived Friday night.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
Okay, So while you were in Masa for this three
day weekend, I guess did he give you any indication
that he wanted to engage or have some sort of
sexual interaction with you?

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
No, it was just the opposite.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Told you, We didn't. Yes, so tell us about that
weekend then was yourself and others? Did you wind up
having a sexual encounter with mister Alexander that weekend?

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
No, he joked about oral sex giving him, but he
was concerned about his ex girlfriend there and he didn't
want us to be affectionate in front of her.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
And this ex girlfriend we heard from a girl by
the name of Lisa. Then by the name of Lisa Andrews.
Is that the girlfriend we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
No, Loise Andrews came after word. This was a girlfriend
prior to Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Lisa all right, and what was her name?

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
Dianna.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
So he expressed to you concerned that Deanna would be jealous.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
He didn't say jealous.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Did he express misgivings about how the two of you
were to act.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
In front of Dianna?

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
Yes, he warned.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
He felt he needed to warn me, warn you that what.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
We're going to take seeonri says, at this time, ladies
and gentlemen, please be back in the jury room at
one twenty five. Please remember the admonition, have a nice lunch.
You are excused, please be seated. The record will show
the jury has left the courtroom yes, my serious may
step down. Let's address the last objection, mister Martinez.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
She was going to talk about what mister Alexander told her.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
That's here, Sack. You know, hearsay has a much more
complex definition, man, just the fact that somebody comes out
of the something comes out of someone else's mouth that
does not hear say make it has to be an
assertion intended. Is an assertion by the declarant that is

(01:12:34):
offered for the truth of the matter asserted. This goes
to miss Arius's state of mind as it relates to
how she was to act in front of this girlfriend, Deanna.
It goes to the effect of the listener. I don't
even think it's hearsay because it's not being offered for
the truth of the matter asserted. As to the reasons

(01:12:54):
why that mister Alexander was concerned about his conduct in
front of this read that we're not going to the
truth of the matter. That the effect of how this
effectiveness areas is conduct and the behavior that weekend.

Speaker 8 (01:13:08):
Right, as we discussed at the bench yesterday, if you
can read director by rephrasing the question, that is preferable,
we'll limit the number of bench conferences we need to have,
so just rephrase the question.

Speaker 3 (01:13:19):
Sure when the jury returns.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
All right, mister Nurmay you wanted to make a record?
Would you want to do that now?

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Well, yes, your honor, that's fine, But I believe I'd
like to have the sheriff at least begin by addressing
what they're requesting and then so I can make my
objection to it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
All right, mister Dutcher happy the sheriff.

Speaker 4 (01:13:45):
Gotch Scott Dutcher on behalf of the sheriff on bio
come to the Sheriff's attention. There have beens in conferences
in chambers and a non secure area of the courthouse
with miss areas present, and that's not something the sheriff permits.
After we I'll discuss this this morning before court began.

(01:14:07):
I did explore some other options with the Sheriff's office,
and I know the defense has some concerns, and this
is maybe an option if if everyone wants this, if
there are short conferences in as lieu of having everyone
clear the courtroom. Right over here is a secure area

(01:14:27):
and there aren't chairs. I don't know if we can
get some chairs, but if it's a short conference, we
can all and for this area of the courthouse, which
is secure area of the jail, and everyone can.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
I guess, have say whatever they need to say.

Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
I don't know if that's an option that everyone wants,
but that or the courtroom are the only options available.

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
Judge.

Speaker 4 (01:14:52):
It is a security issue to have inmates in unsecured
areas of the jail and that's not something the shriff
allows for it for any including the service, all right, and.

Speaker 9 (01:15:03):
You wanted to make a record on that, mister n Judge,
I just want to recite at least obviously we know
the sixth Amendment guarantees my clients right to be present
at all.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Vital stages of these proceedings. In any denial of that
would be a denial of due process and reason for
mistrial in this regard, obviously, based on whatever the reasons
were when we were asking to do this, whatever party was,

(01:15:35):
both parties of thats and the Court is understood that
under those circumstances, with not going into what they are,
that those were important, there were reasons for it. That
is why some of those records have been sealed. So, Judge,
I believe that at least for the record, and our

(01:15:56):
assertion is that regardless and I'm not trying to get
in a dispute with the Sheriff's office, but miss Arius
is entitled to do that. I don't know about the
viability from a logistics standpoint of what the Sheriff's office
is suggesting, but I just want to make it clear

(01:16:16):
for the record that we're asserting that she has an
absolute right to be present and if that needs to
be facilitated in some way, either through clearing the courtroom
or alternative means, and that that is the basis of
our assertion and we will not waiver on that point.
If it gets more contentious in that regard, I would

(01:16:37):
be asking for emotions from the Sheriff's office, because, again,
because this is such an important right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
All right, the court will make the best determination it
can in any given circumstance, including clearing the courtroom if
necessary to accommodate a defense request or a confidential meeting.
All right, anything else, no, thank you?

Speaker 3 (01:16:59):
All right for lunch.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
Serious, please take the stance.

Speaker 3 (01:17:25):
H m hmm. Thanks. The jury.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
Please be seated. The record will show the presence of
the jury, the defendant in council. Again, ladies and gentlemen,
thank you for your patients. I'm sure you are accustomed
to delays, and your patience is appreciated. Mister Nurman, you
may continue.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
Thank you, Jonah, misterious. Before lunch, we were talking about
the time a weekend that you and some fellow members
of Prepaid Legal were spending with mister Alexander and that
was his home.

Speaker 9 (01:18:10):
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Yes, you were talking about You mentioned an individual by
the name of Deanna. Did Deanna have a last name?

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
Read?

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
And this miss read? What was your understanding of who
she was?

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
My understanding was that she was an ex girlfriend, an.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
Ex girlfriend of Alexander's, Yes, of Travis's.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
That she was somebody Travis had once been very serious with,
that he was once in love with, and they were
both in love and they separated. A lot of the
history I know is through Travis, I mean all of it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
Really, those friends. Were you instructed to act a certain
way with Travis when Miss Reid was present?

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
How was that?

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
He warned me that she was emotionally unstable and that
she would freak out if she saw him with other
girls or if he attempted to move on. Anytime he tried.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
To date somebody, did you see I take it, and
maybe I mean correct? Was this the first time you
met miss Reid was in December two thousand and six.

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
It's the first time I saw her. I don't recall
meeting her. He advised me to steer clear of her
at his house, So I didn't, you know, seize the
opportunity to go introduce myself or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
Okay, this these instructions, if you will, that were given
to you regarding Miss Reid, was that some sort of
constant dictate throughout the course of your relationship with mister Alexander.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
Yes, the entire time, even after we eventually broke up.

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
Okay, because you weren't boyfriend and girlfriend in December two
thousand and six. Correct, No, who were not in that
regard you mentioned? And we'll talk up into the from
the time you met mister Alexander to the time you're
at his home in Mesa two thousand and six for

(01:20:48):
the first time. Were you dating other people?

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
There were? I was asked out on a few dates,
some I turned down and when I accepted.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
During that time, did mister Alexander know about these dates?

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
Yes, he knew about He knew about when I was
asked and I think I did tell him, I don't
remember it was a church member. I don't remember if
I told.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
Him all right, before we moved past December two thousand
and six. Based on what you're telling us earlier, there
was no sexual interaction between you and Travis during this weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
No, there were insinuations after everyone went to sleep, but
he seemed almost paranoid.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
That sorry, maybe approach. We were talking about the fact
that any that no sexual interaction took place between you
and mister Alexander, and you were explaining how he was
paranoid about being caught. Is that right?

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Yeah, he seemed hyper vigilant about us having any physical contact,
even just holding hands or hugging or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
What do you mean hypervision? Did it? Did you hold
hands and things like that? But he just paranoid people
might see it, or can you describe that for us?

Speaker 3 (01:22:20):
Well, even after Diana left and everyone we all found
our sleeping arrangements. Travis and I slept in the front room.
He had two leather couches, brown leather couches, and I
slept on one and he slept on the other, and
there were other people sleeping in an adjacent family room.
And then there were other people sleeping in the loft,
and there were two ladies that were sleeping in his
bed upstairs. And even after all the lights were out

(01:22:45):
and it was dark, we were laying on the couch
talking and he had his hand laying like that, just
off the couch, and I just put my hand out
and just touched his fingers, you know, nothing erotic or anything,
just being affectionate, and he kind of pulled away and
sat up and looked around to see if anyone was awake,

(01:23:08):
and then he just kind of turned over toward me,
but didn't reach out anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
So, based on your interaction with him over the weekend,
you were left with the impression that he certainly didn't
want anyone to know that you were involved in any way. Reprise,

(01:23:37):
based on this conduct, when he pulls his hand away
out of fear of being seen, did that leave you
with the impression that mister Alexander didn't want people to
know that you were any way intimately involved with him
have sex with her? Yeah, were you there at the

(01:24:01):
weekend to have sex with mister Alexander?

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):
No, it was a business trip. I was excited to
see him because I liked him, But no, definitely not
for that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
We do you hope and he might bend you over
the bad and and have anal sex with you. No, Now,
you didn't have any physical or romantic contact with him
this weekend because other people were there and he wanted
to keep it a secret. That was your understanding.

Speaker 3 (01:24:31):
Yes, well, there was one romantic gesture as I was.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
Leaving, and where did that take place?

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
He walked me out to my car to load up
the bags or my luggage, and his friend Chris was
sitting in there Lexus suv on the street and he
was on the phone facing I guess they We were
in the driveway and he would have been facing west
cause he was parked up near the house and my

(01:25:01):
car was parked in the driveway. And after the trunk shut,
he looked around and saw that Chris had his back
to us and he was on the phone and he said, here,
kiss me quick, Bonoman's looking and so we just kissed.
Not it was a brief kiss and that was it,
and I sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
Okay, Well, let me ask you this. At this point
in time, you had engaged in several maybe a half dozen,
maybe not quite a half dozen instances of sexual contact
with mister Alexander, right.

Speaker 3 (01:25:39):
Yeah, Well how many did you say?

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Well, around a half dozen, give or take, probably something
close to that. And he doesn't want anyone, seemingly to
know that you have any sort of relationship in December
two thousand and six. So my question then is how
did that make you feel?

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
I didn't give it too much thought. It didn't make
me feel good, but it didn't make me upset. I
just sort of It's something I kept ignoring and putting
out of my mind and just ignoring.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
Okay, so you weren't mad at him? No, did you
ever think, at this point in time I'm done with
this guy?

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
Maybe not in the context set I think you're putting it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
Okay, well, what context was it that? I mean? At
this point in time? He didn't say to you, wiz,
were doing all this activity. He doesn't even want to
hold my hand in public, It's time to end this.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
It bothered me a little bit, But we talked about
the status of our relationship the next.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
Day, and based on that conversation use the words status,
what was the status of your relationship? But based on
this conversation, to your understand what was the status?

Speaker 3 (01:27:12):
After talking I was encouraged to date other people.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
And you know, we talked a moment ago about you
know how you didn't you were asked out on one
date or ask out on a few dates before December
at this point in time, when you're going to Arenberg
and all those things, were you of the mind that

(01:27:36):
mister Alexander wasn't dating anyone else?

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
I had that impression. I found out it was false.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
Okay, we'll talk about that in a bit. But in
January or two thousand and seven, or after December two
thousand and six, excuse me, you said that you were
encouraged today other individuals. Yes, was there a certain type

(01:28:09):
of individual you were encouraged today?

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
Yes? He wasn't specific that first time, but then he
got more specific afterwards.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
Let me ask you this, Did you go on dates?

Speaker 3 (01:28:26):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
Do you know to your knowledge did mister Alexander learn
about these dates?

Speaker 3 (01:28:33):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
And where were these you were in? Is this in December?
Is this in January of the following year?

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
I think it would have been January.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
And where you're still living in Palm I have the
sense that maybe you were moved out of your Palm
Desert home by then? Is that No?

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
I stayed in desert until early May. I think.

Speaker 2 (01:29:04):
Okay, so you were back in Did these dates take
place in Palm Desert?

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:29:13):
Where did they take place?

Speaker 3 (01:29:15):
Pasadena?

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
And was there one particular individual? Did you go on
several dates?

Speaker 3 (01:29:23):
I went on dates with two different individuals. Yeah, two
official dates to actual dates.

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
And you mentioned Pasadena. You weren't living there. Why were
these dates taking place in Pasadena?

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
I had a doctor's appointment in Pasadena. So there was
a guy that I had met. He was sitting next
to me at the Super Saturday event that the one
that I was texting Travis at, and he was very
lively and he asked me out, not right away, it
was he was talking to me, getting to know me

(01:30:02):
during the event and then said, I don't remember how
he worded it, but maybe we should go out sometime.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
And it's Super Saturday that you met this particular individual.
When did this take place?

Speaker 3 (01:30:16):
It would have been the same date as the photographs,
so November eleventh, two thousand and six.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
And did this individual ask you out on the eleventh
of November two thousand and.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
Six, Yes, but nothing confirmed or concrete. You just threw
it out there and I said, okay, maybe sure, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
Did you feel like it would have been at that
point in time, considering your relationship with mister Alexander, that
it would have been inappropriate for you to date this individual,
not just a date.

Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
I wouldn't have considered it inappropriate.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
I don't think so you would or wouldn't have.

Speaker 3 (01:30:55):
I would not have if it was just a date.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
So you run into this individual again down the road. Yes,
mentioned Pasadena. You have a date with this individual.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
We decided, we agreed to meet in Pasadena.

Speaker 2 (01:31:10):
And who was this person?

Speaker 3 (01:31:12):
His name is Abe abdul Hatty.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
And how many dates did you have with mister Abdulhatti?

Speaker 3 (01:31:19):
Just one?

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
And you dated another individual? He said.

Speaker 3 (01:31:24):
I went on what I thought was what I thought
was going to be a date. It turned out to
be more platonic. And that was someone else.

Speaker 2 (01:31:33):
And who was that?

Speaker 3 (01:31:34):
His name is John? John what Dixon?

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
Okay, So you said the date with mister Dixon was,
if I heard you correctly.

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
Platonic right that well, we he asked, he invited me
to get lunch. We got sushi, We chit chatted. I
didn't get any vibes or major chemistry. We were just friendly.
So that's the impression I was.

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
Left, okay, and uh, the date with mister abdul Hattie
was that more or I should say, was that a
less platonic situation?

Speaker 3 (01:32:12):
It developed into that sort of but you know, I mean,
I don't know. We were just on a date, so
it was not he wasn't as I don't know how
to put it. It was it was different from the
lunch date that I.

Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
Did mister Alexander know of these dates?

Speaker 3 (01:32:39):
Yes, he didn't know prior.

Speaker 2 (01:32:41):
Okay, he knew afterwards? Did you? How did he know?

Speaker 3 (01:32:45):
Did you tell him? I didn't answer my phone that night,
so cause I was actually I've been to hang out
with John Dixon again, and it was again platonic. He
wanted to show me.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
Sorry, disc why are we with John Dixon again?

Speaker 3 (01:33:09):
He invited me over to show me clips from a
movie he was directing, and you just played some of
those clips on his computer and we watched some clips
from Pirates as a Caribbean, and that was it. I
think we might have hugged when I left, I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:33:30):
And this it was at this time. I believe you're
telling us that mister Alexander called and you weren't able
to take his call at that moment. Yes, was he
angry that you didn't respond to his caller? Weren't there
to answer his phone call.

Speaker 3 (01:33:48):
He wasn't angry, just inquisitive.

Speaker 2 (01:33:52):
And that inquisition, if you will, led to you just
driving the fact that you were with mister Dixon. Yes,
and how did that sit with trapping?

Speaker 3 (01:34:14):
He wasn't warmly received. He didn't appear to get angry,
but he I could tell he was upset in his
the way he was in his tone. Is his mood change?

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
What about the date with mister abdu Hatti? How did
he come to How did Travis come to learn of
that date?

Speaker 3 (01:34:40):
Same conversation because both of those dates are on the
same day in Pasadena?

Speaker 2 (01:34:46):
Was his distaste for your date with mister abdul Hatty?
Was it different than than that with John Dixon? She
did say he was distasteful.

Speaker 3 (01:35:02):
She characterized it differently, O World, can you see that
question again?

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
Sorry, I'm gonna try. Was Travis angry about your date
with mister Abduhati?

Speaker 3 (01:35:23):
It appeared to me, or it seemed to me. We
was over the phone, so I had to see him.
But from the tone of his voice, he seemed upset.

Speaker 2 (01:35:34):
Was that at a different level or different reaction than
it was related to mister Dixon.

Speaker 3 (01:35:43):
I think it was all sort of cumulative.

Speaker 2 (01:35:49):
Well, you mentioned the fact that as far as being
encouraged to date, you said that there were s certain
people eventually thought it was didn't matter what kind of
person you Werecurrence today. Then you said later on you
were encouraged to date a particular type of person. So

(01:36:11):
what I was asking, is there some difference between mister
abdu Haughty and mister Dixon that caused, to your understanding
extra anxiety with mister Alexander.

Speaker 3 (01:36:23):
I think they were grouped the same because they weren't
church members, and I was sort of reprimanded for that
by mister Alexander.

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
Yes, so it wasn't that they they being mister Dixon
mister abdu Hatti were different from each other. The problem was,
from your understanding, was that they were both not church members,
and mister Alexander wanted you to only date church members. Yes,

(01:36:54):
I got to ask, at this point in time, you've
encouraged to date, why would you care or why would
you allow mister Alexander to have any input on who
you dated.

Speaker 3 (01:37:13):
I sort of felt that way. When he said that,
I'm thinking, you can't tell me who to date. But
he explained to me the importance of dating within the church,
and it made sense to me. So I agreed with him.
What I agreed with him.

Speaker 2 (01:37:27):
Okay, so based on this conversation with mister Alexander, then
you agree to him that you're not going to date
outside the church. Is that what we're taking away from this?

Speaker 3 (01:37:43):
I agreed with what he told me.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
Now, the time period we're talking about was January two
thousand and seven, and you told us that you and
Travis officially became a couple in February of two thousand
and seven, right, yes, Okay, how did it go from

(01:38:11):
you dating other people, him encouraging you to dating other people.

Speaker 1 (01:38:17):
To this.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
Relationship this boyfriend or girlfriend label.

Speaker 3 (01:38:25):
He was a lot of things happened in that three
week period.

Speaker 2 (01:38:32):
Let's talk about that. What happened from your perspective to
get you from dating other individuals to being Travis's girlfriend.

Speaker 3 (01:38:44):
Well, the first thing I did is he hung up
on me that night. He was upset, and so it
kind of jarred me a little bit. So I decided
to write him an email. I just I don't know why,
but I felt like I was cheating on him, even
though he had told me to date other people. I

(01:39:06):
felt guilty about it, and so I expressed that to him.
And while I was writing an email, he sent me
a text message. I don't know if I can say
what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:39:21):
You're writing this email and you're expressing your feelings. Do
you ever send it without telling us what was said?
Did this get to? Is this kind of discontent that

(01:39:42):
led to you too deciding well, okay, that's it, We're
going to be a couple. Is that what you're telling us,
Not at that moment.

Speaker 3 (01:39:48):
It was a process over a few weeks, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:39:53):
But that sort of thing led you. That sort of
disconnect or feelings is what led you to to be
a couple.

Speaker 3 (01:40:05):
I think it sort of started us on the path, okay,
to be more official.

Speaker 2 (01:40:09):
So now, when you say you and Travis officially became
a couple, what did that mean? Was there some sort
of agreement or you know, you sat down and said
you're not going to date other people? Tell us about
the day that you and Travis became a couple, if

(01:40:31):
you will.

Speaker 3 (01:40:33):
I went out to his house that weekend. Well, the
first weekend of February. We hung out. We were watching
I don't know if you're watching a movie. We were
on the internet. We were just reading books. We were
just doing things in the house all day, hanging out
and we were reading. We were each reading our own books.

(01:40:56):
And we were sitting in this oversized chair next to
his bed, just two of us squeezed into it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
Well, let me ask you that where were you in
his bedroom? Okay? What brought you to his home? And
this is February. Do you remember the day?

Speaker 3 (01:41:17):
Not exactly, but it would have been the first or
the second, okay, maybe the third.

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
So you go to his house in early February. Why
were you there? I mean there must have been some
discussion about you coming to visit him, I assume, is
that right?

Speaker 3 (01:41:35):
No, there wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:41:35):
Actually, Okay, tell us how you came to see mister
Alexander in early February.

Speaker 3 (01:41:45):
Well, that month, he showed up on my doorstep at
one in the morning, without morning, and that's when I
met Dan Freeman. And so a few weeks later I
thought I would repay him in kind and surprise him
as well.

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
Okay, before we fast forward back to February, we heard
about mister Freeman coming to your door at one fort
in the morning. Is you just talked about and you
and Travis went back to the bedroom? Is that? Is
that accurate your recollection? Yes, mister Freeman wasn't in that bedroom.

(01:42:24):
Could you describe for us what happened in the bedroom
while mister Freeman was outside of the door. We just
made out, what do you mean, just made out?

Speaker 3 (01:42:33):
It didn't go very far. We were just kissing and
playing around and just having funk.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
No oral sex, no, no antal sex, no. And your
clothing stayed on.

Speaker 3 (01:42:48):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
So after this a few weeks later, you surprised mister
Alexander in early February. Do you remember about what you
arrived in the home?

Speaker 3 (01:43:01):
I had to work that night, so I hit the road.
I don't remember. I think it was around to thirty
or three in the morning.

Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
And you were coming from Palm Desert. Yes, so tell
us what happened when you arrived.

Speaker 3 (01:43:17):
I pulled up to his house and I was kind
of excited the whole trip. I was like thinking, I mean,
he thought it was hilarious when he came, so I
thought it would be funny to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
Could you could you speak up a man.

Speaker 3 (01:43:32):
Sorry, But as I approached the door, I had doubts.
I thought, I kind of felt stupid. I was like,
what is he going to think if I'm showing up
at his house at three o'clock in the morning. So
I started to like go back and forth and waiver,
And then I walked back to my car, and then
I stopped. I was gonna get all the way in
the car and just go back because I felt silly.

(01:43:54):
But I turned around and looked at the house one
more time, and I noticed in the upper window there
were lights flashing like that was a lot where the
screen would have been for the television or movies or whatever.
So somebody was awake. So I decided, Okay, what the heck?
So before I could change my mind, I went back
to the front door and ring the doorbell.

Speaker 2 (01:44:16):
And who answered the door?

Speaker 3 (01:44:21):
Travis and Napoleon.

Speaker 2 (01:44:24):
Okay, and Napoleon is his dog? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
Yes, I could hear him before anything else. What's that
I could hear him before anything else? Was barking very
loudly when the doorbell rang.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
Was did mister Alexander appear to you to be happy
to see you? Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:44:39):
He looked very surprised and he had a pick grin
on his face.

Speaker 2 (01:44:44):
What happened after that? Did he let you in the home?
How did that go?

Speaker 3 (01:44:49):
He pulled me into the house, he was called out,
so I was it was February, so I had a
jacket on with the hood and he just stood there
kind of a similar reaction to me j when he
showed up, just dumbfounded but happy, like what the heck?
And then his roommate came downstairs and he Travis yanked

(01:45:12):
the hood off my head and said, well, this is Jody.

Speaker 2 (01:45:15):
So And uh, which roommate was that?

Speaker 3 (01:45:21):
Thomas brow So?

Speaker 2 (01:45:23):
After you met mister Brown and he introduces you in
the way he does. What what takes place? Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:45:31):
The three of us go upstairs and get comfortable on
the love secs. They're like giant bean bags. Travis Lake
took the center one, and then Thomas I think was
on the other side. He would have been on my right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:44):
Okay, as far as and now we're talking, I know,
late in the night or early hours of the morning,
what were your sleeping arrangements in mister Alexander's hall?

Speaker 3 (01:45:58):
Well, based on the last time I was at his
home and how he reacted. I told him, I told him,
it's okay if you want me to sleep on the couch,
I'm okay with that. And he balked and insisted that
I stay in his bedroom with him.

Speaker 2 (01:46:17):
And did you end up spending the night in the bedroom?

Speaker 3 (01:46:23):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:46:25):
Did any sexual activity happen that night?

Speaker 3 (01:46:33):
Yes, it did happen that night and the next night.

Speaker 2 (01:46:36):
I'm sorry, And you said the next night, yes, okay.
What happened that first night?

Speaker 3 (01:46:44):
I don't recall specifics. I just know that we were
intimate the same kinds of things we had done before
and nothing different. No, except we did the anal sex briefly,
but there was none of that, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:46:57):
And at this point in time as well, you've had
I had tinaw vaginl and of course, mister Alexander's right, okay.
And did you stay the next day? Then?

Speaker 3 (01:47:13):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:47:16):
What did you do? What did you and Travis do?

Speaker 3 (01:47:18):
We hung out all day. He was showing me a
museum that had come through Phoenix recently. It was called
Body World. He was showing me that museum online and
it had just left town. Otherwise we were He wanted
to go take me to see it, but it was gone,
so we just hung out at the house. I'm trying

(01:47:39):
to remember if we left. I think we stayed at
the house all day and hung out.

Speaker 2 (01:47:45):
Okay, So you don't recall going out to dinner, going
out to movie, anything like that. Stay at home all day.

Speaker 3 (01:47:51):
No, we might have gone to grab a by d
but I I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:47:56):
Okay. And I know you talked about you spent the
next night with him. Did any that day? Did any
sexual activity happen that during that day?

Speaker 3 (01:48:14):
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:48:15):
Okay, it was that night, Okay, So you spend all day.
There are his roommates home.

Speaker 3 (01:48:24):
I don't remember if Thomas had to work or not
during the day, but they were home. It was Thomas
and I can't I think Aaron Dewey.

Speaker 2 (01:48:35):
Okay, when you were in front of the roommates, did
the old hands with you, put his arm around you,
anything of that nature.

Speaker 3 (01:48:46):
No, we stayed in the bedroom a lot, but when
we hung out downstairs, if the roommates were there, we
were just regularly friends.

Speaker 2 (01:48:57):
And I'm not and I'm not talking from a sexual standpoint,
but was he otherwise physically affectionate or expressive with you
when you guys were behind the closed doors of his bedroom. Yes,
so you spent two nights there, and you said, this
is a point in time that you became his girlfriend.

(01:49:21):
What was the discussion then that got you to the
point where you were to be his girlfriend?

Speaker 3 (01:49:29):
Am I allowed to say? What was said?

Speaker 2 (01:49:32):
Well? What did the two of you have a conversation?

Speaker 3 (01:49:35):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
And what was the subject matter that conversation?

Speaker 3 (01:49:43):
My dating life?

Speaker 2 (01:49:44):
And during that conversation, did mister Alexander express to his
desire that you not date other people?

Speaker 3 (01:49:52):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:49:54):
And how did you receive that?

Speaker 3 (01:50:00):
It was kind of a lighthearted conversation. I didn't know
if he was joking or not, because he was talking
about my dating life but not his. So I looked
at him like, what do you mean by that? And
then he clarified and kind of laughed.

Speaker 2 (01:50:18):
You mentioned his dating life. Did you inquire if he
was dating anyone else?

Speaker 9 (01:50:25):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:50:25):
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:50:28):
Did he offer up any information that he might be
dating someone else?

Speaker 3 (01:50:36):
Not during that conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
He did later he offered it him up hup himself.

Speaker 3 (01:50:44):
Yes. I later found out he was dating a girl
named Chelsea around the Christmas time. Then it also would
have been the time I think that I might have
been in December. There in December, but I'm not sure
it was close to Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:50:56):
But this isn't something he volunteered to you at the
time you were having this boyfriend talk.

Speaker 3 (01:51:00):
Right, No, okay, and I'm sorry. I think it was
near Thanksgiving actually that they dated. I can't remember with
the holiday, okay, but they were separated by the time.
I don't know. It's been his emails.

Speaker 2 (01:51:15):
So so this moment in time that you became his girlfriend,
were you happy about that?

Speaker 3 (01:51:31):
Yeah? I felt pretty good about it. I was. I
don't know. We had a lot of we'd made a
lot of progress over the last three weeks because of
some things that had happened involving some other friends of his,
and he had seemed to really change and better himself,
and he was treating me very nicely, and when we
became what I believe was exclusive, then it just seemed

(01:51:53):
like the natural next step.

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
What do you mean by some things that had happened
with some friends? It was what do you mean by that?

Speaker 4 (01:52:07):
Was that time?

Speaker 2 (01:52:08):
Specifically? What was said.

Speaker 3 (01:52:12):
Travis is he was a funny guy and he would
make jokes a lot, and he made some jokes toward
me that were not very nice, but they were jokes,
but still didn't sit well with me. So I expressed
that with some of his friends when we were hanging out,
and they advised me.

Speaker 2 (01:52:35):
To imja here, it's not being offered for the truth
of man.

Speaker 3 (01:52:42):
They advised me to stop dating him immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:52:47):
These jokes. You you characterizing those jokes? What do you mean?
What would he say to you?

Speaker 3 (01:52:58):
He called me a skank in front of other people,
in front of his roommate, Josh Ford.

Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
And he thought that was funny.

Speaker 3 (01:53:12):
He I didn't react, and he said, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (01:53:15):
Very quickly, he caused you a skank in front of uh,
a roommate of his. Why not just hie tailor out
of there.

Speaker 3 (01:53:25):
We were on the phone actually when he said that.
We were talking and then he began to have a
conversation with somebody else, so I waited, and then he apologized.
He said, sorry, Josh just got home. I said, tell
me tell him. I said hi, Jody says hi, and
I could hear the muffled response in the background. It
sounded friendly, but Travis said he said you're a skank,

(01:53:45):
So I knew they came from Travis, not Josh, and
then he said, I'm just kidding. So at that point
I didn't really know what to say. I just kind
of in a polite way, got off the phone with him,
and then the conversation with his friends ensued because I
was at the house when that phone call took place.

Speaker 2 (01:54:03):
You mentioned a couple other things. Did he Did he
call you other names in a supposed joking manner? Yes,
facts about an evidence. Josh Ford called her a skink.
She interpreted that to be mister, that's not accurate to
what he said. He's objected.

Speaker 3 (01:54:21):
Restate your question.

Speaker 2 (01:54:23):
Did mister Alexander call you other names besides skank in
a joking manner?

Speaker 3 (01:54:30):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:54:32):
What were they.

Speaker 3 (01:54:35):
Called me? Pollyanna? He called me porn star in people Pollyanna? Yes, pornstar.

Speaker 2 (01:54:47):
Now okay, and what did he What was the point
of calling you Pollyanna?

Speaker 3 (01:54:56):
At the time, I had long, platinum blonde hair, and
I think because my demeanor at that time was kind
of happy, go lucky, positive, shrug things off if they
were negative. I always looked at the right side of things.
That's kind of how I expressed myself. So with that
demeanor plus my own hair, and he wanted to Yeah,

(01:55:19):
braids sometimes, so he gave me that nickname.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
Okay, but he would call you Paullyanna in front of
your friends as well. Yes, you mentioned that he referred
to you as a skank, and this set off somewhat
of a conversation with some friends of his about how
he treated you. Right, Yeah, and in your mind you

(01:55:49):
said he was treating you better. So you felt as
if these issues had been resolved and you were getting closer.

Speaker 3 (01:55:59):
The issue was like the can of worms was opened
when that happened, when he called me that, and then
I voiced my concerns about it sort of opened up.

Speaker 2 (01:56:15):
I guess, Well, did it open up a dialogue that
ultimately read to this resolution? I guess yes it did. Okay,
So you are early February, your boyfriend and girlfriend. These
issues have been spilled out on the table and resolved,

(01:56:35):
so to speak. The Are you happy that day?

Speaker 3 (01:56:41):
Yes? Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:56:43):
When you became his girlfriend. Did the way he interacted
with you in public? Did that change.

Speaker 3 (01:56:58):
Around Dan and Desiree Freeman and I think his roommate
Aaron Dewey, Yes, but everyone else know.

Speaker 2 (01:57:08):
So you're telling us that he wa you felt as it. Well,
I don't wanna put words in your mouth. Was he
treating you as a girlfriend in front of these people
and not in front of in front of others? Is
that what you're telling us? Yeah, you made the comment
that you were happy for that day. Did something change

(01:57:33):
rapidly to make you not so happy?

Speaker 3 (01:57:39):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:57:40):
What happened?

Speaker 3 (01:57:41):
He got up? Uh, we had been looking at the
Body World Museum, and we're looking at all these different
I don't know if you're familiar with it, but all
these different body parts, and was fascinating just the human
body and the structure and the organs and all of that.
And after a while of clicking around on that website,

(01:58:03):
he got up and started straightening out his room and
doing some things, and I was looking at the website,
and some of the things we had looked at we
went over quickly, and I wanted to look at them again,
so I clicked the back button and until I was
found what I was looking for, kept clicking back back back,
and then I clicked back one too many times and
I was suddenly in his MySpace account.

Speaker 2 (01:58:26):
And what did you see there?

Speaker 3 (01:58:30):
Well? First I was confused. I thought, I wonder why
he didn't log out, So I didn't see anything in
it im immediately, but he was in it. It was
the inbox, and I the temptation got the better of me,
so I clicked on an email.

Speaker 2 (01:58:51):
And was there a particular reason a certain email duct
your attention?

Speaker 3 (01:58:57):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:58:59):
Why?

Speaker 3 (01:59:00):
In early December, one day I logged onto MySpace. And
I don't know if you're familiar with MySpace, but the
friends in your network you could see when they're online,
cause there's a little icon that flashes online now or
online or something. I don't remember, but I saw Travis
was online too, So I clicked on his page to
wish him good morning or good afternoon or whatever time

(01:59:22):
of the day it was, and I noticed there were
a ton of new comments on his page and they
were all from two women and they were they were
like I they were I don't know what the computer
term is, but they were graphics. They were it was
like graphic art. It was all very flirty, like lips

(01:59:45):
and sparkly hearts and all these kind of suggestive things.
So I thought that was interesting, cause you know, we
hadn't had the discussion yet of up moving on and
dating other people. This is right before that, And right

(02:00:06):
then I got a phone call from him, and he
could see that I was online, and he began to
tell me about this crazy experience he had and it
involved this.

Speaker 2 (02:00:17):
Well, let me let me stop you here just for
a second so we're clear. This wasn't after you became
his girlfriend. This was a time that you had seen
his page previous to that from contacting.

Speaker 3 (02:00:34):
Him, right, will you say that again? I'm sorry?

Speaker 2 (02:00:39):
I ask you what drew your attention to the particular
email that you opened.

Speaker 3 (02:00:44):
Up the day after you came because I noticed that
it was the same girl that well, because he spun
a story about it. And when you reply on an email,
it says the rae with the call, and then if
you reply again, it has another RU with a colon
rather than just one. It increases every time the thread

(02:01:06):
gets longer. R E R E R E R you.
So I could see this with a long thread and
it was that girl when I was curious, so I
clicked on it.

Speaker 2 (02:01:14):
Okay, And you recognize that girl and he had described,
you said, a prior wild experience that he had with her, right, yes,
And that wild experience was that sexual in nature?

Speaker 3 (02:01:33):
No? Okay, Well I don't know that's not what he described.

Speaker 2 (02:01:39):
Okay, would you term it sexual in nature?

Speaker 3 (02:01:47):
I would term it more hostile.

Speaker 2 (02:01:49):
So moving back then to February of two thousand and seven,
you're reading this email from this female that was sent
to mister Alexander. Was what you were reading sexual in.

Speaker 3 (02:02:09):
Nature at first? Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:02:14):
Okay, so part of the content was sexual. It was.

Speaker 3 (02:02:19):
It was kind of blurting, not not very explicit, but
there were innuendos.

Speaker 2 (02:02:27):
Was there in the context of this email? Was there
discussion about them meeting?

Speaker 3 (02:02:37):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:02:39):
And was there information related to when they were going
to meet or where they were going to meet?

Speaker 3 (02:02:46):
Yes? On the New year?

Speaker 2 (02:02:48):
And as Travis's girlfriend, this didn't please you? Is that
fair to say?

Speaker 3 (02:02:55):
Well, it didn't. It didn't make be elated, but it
didn't bothered me too much.

Speaker 2 (02:03:03):
Did you ask mister Alexander about this?

Speaker 3 (02:03:07):
No, not right away, kay, And I want.

Speaker 2 (02:03:11):
To clarify something earlier, because you said, you know, you
were his girlfriend, you were happy for a day and
something made you unhappy, and now you're just telling us, well,
this email it didn't make me elated. Did something else
make you unhappy? Or was it just this email?

Speaker 3 (02:03:29):
There was one other thing that really bothered me a
lot more than that. Email. That email was months before
we became official, so it was like it wasn't. I
was a little upset because it wasn't what he told me.
So I was thinking, yeah, right, But there was another
email that was more disturbing.

Speaker 6 (02:03:47):
And.

Speaker 2 (02:03:49):
Why was that? Without going into what it said, why
was that disturbed?

Speaker 3 (02:03:55):
It was much more sexual in nature, and it was
with a married woman, an LDS married.

Speaker 2 (02:04:02):
Woman, And you said it was sexual nature. Did you
get the sense that this woman and mister Alexander were
engaged in some sort of affair.

Speaker 3 (02:04:19):
I don't know. She lived in southern California, but they
were definitely making plans.

Speaker 2 (02:04:28):
Did you speak with mister Alexander about this email?

Speaker 3 (02:04:34):
Eventually I did, but I spoke to Sky about it first.
Wasn't sure.

Speaker 2 (02:04:41):
Why not? And you said you weren't sure what to do?
Why not just break up with him?

Speaker 3 (02:04:51):
Well, part of my reasoning at the time was this
was also something that took place a few months back.
It was before Christmas, and I was a little disturbed
by the It made me question what his values were

(02:05:12):
regarding marriage. But I liked him, so I wasn't going
to break up with him.

Speaker 2 (02:05:25):
You said you liked him, you were his girlfriend at
this point in time? Were you in love with him?
In February two thousand and seven.

Speaker 3 (02:05:35):
I might have been, but I don't recall being in
love in love. I recall having feelings for him, but
I don't know that I could say in love. Yet.

Speaker 2 (02:05:50):
After you left his home as his girlfriend, did you
go back to Palm Desert?

Speaker 3 (02:06:02):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:06:02):
And at that point in time, Well, describe a relationship
your faut. You're hundreds of miles away anyway. Are we
back to the phone calls that sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (02:06:14):
Yes. He began to call me more often at that point,
owing partially to everything that had happened between his friends
and I and him, and so he was a lot
better and how he was treating me. So things began
to develop a little bit more rapidly.

Speaker 2 (02:06:33):
Okay, you say develop a little more rapidly. You're already
boyfriend and girlfriend. What is it? What is it developing into?

Speaker 3 (02:06:45):
Well, there was a lot more talk about marriage. We
were not engaged that the subject of marriage was almost
discussed from very early on, not necessarily him and I,
but he would throw out hypotheticals if and then. So
now it was more like when he was making plans
it was always we instead of me, So it seemed

(02:07:08):
like I was included more as in his future and
his in mind.

Speaker 2 (02:07:15):
And based on what you told us earlier, it would
seem that at this point in time, being married and
having a family was still one of your primary goals
in life. Is that right?

Speaker 3 (02:07:30):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:07:33):
And in this time period of February two thousand and seven,
are you still involved in prepaid legal yes? Actively? Or
you just have your membership purchased? How would you describe
your I was.

Speaker 3 (02:07:50):
I would describe it as I was very actively involved,
but I was not making any money.

Speaker 2 (02:07:57):
So after you leave and you after you leave me,
mister Alexander's hong, we returned to Palm Desert. The relationship
was flourishing largely over the phone, right, yes, Okay, when
do you next see mister Alexander?

Speaker 3 (02:08:12):
We began to see each other about once or twice
a month. I'm trying to remember the exact time I
came out to his house again in March, just prior
to convention.

Speaker 2 (02:08:26):
Well, you mentioned you said you saw I charge to
see each other about every other week, right about me?

Speaker 3 (02:08:34):
He would come out to California on average up once
a month, and I went started going to Arizona on
average of once.

Speaker 2 (02:08:40):
A month, so he would either come out to your
house in Palm Desert or you would go out to
see him in Masa.

Speaker 3 (02:08:47):
Yes, until May he came to Palm Desert.

Speaker 2 (02:08:50):
I'm sorry, until May he.

Speaker 3 (02:08:51):
Would come to Palm Desert.

Speaker 2 (02:08:55):
And at this point in time, if I understand you
actually February two thousand and six your boyfriend or girlfriend,
but you have not had penile vagil intercourse yet? Is
that right?

Speaker 3 (02:09:09):
That's right?

Speaker 2 (02:09:10):
When did you first have penile intercourse with mister Alexander.

Speaker 3 (02:09:17):
It would have been April or May. I think May,
pretty sure, May, but it could have been April.

Speaker 2 (02:09:22):
It was in the spring, apart from these trips back
and forth between your two homes. And did you we
heard a little earlier about travels, did you had you
travel together yet? We just the two of you.

Speaker 3 (02:09:43):
That month of March that I came out before convention
was our first. It was the first time we traveled together.

Speaker 2 (02:09:52):
And where did you go?

Speaker 3 (02:09:55):
He wanted to show me that the places that were
significant in Mormon Church history, so we decided to go
to We flew to Kansas City, Missouri to see places
in Missouri historical sites. And then we also drove to Navo, Illinois.

(02:10:19):
What was that Navoo Illinois?

Speaker 2 (02:10:22):
And what maybe for those of us who don't know,
was there just to begin with, was there a historical
something of historical importance in Kansas City?

Speaker 3 (02:10:37):
Not in Kansas City, but that was the nearest major airport.

Speaker 2 (02:10:40):
Okay to this Navaho, Illinois.

Speaker 3 (02:10:43):
No, to the the sites in Missouri, Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:10:50):
So how long a trip is this to be?

Speaker 3 (02:10:54):
I don't remember how many days that we left a
few days early to see those sites and then fly
to or maybe drive to Oklahoma City where convention was
in the spring.

Speaker 2 (02:11:07):
Okay, and your boyfriend and girlfriend at this time as well, Right, yes,
you go to you go to Kansas City. Is there
a difference in his behavior in terms of how publicly
affectionate is when you arrive in Kansas City as opposed

(02:11:30):
to when you're back home in Arizona.

Speaker 3 (02:11:35):
He's he's a little bit more distant. We hold hands sometimes,
but not often, and that's about the extent I mean
some I don't know. Sometimes he wouldn't even hold my hand.
It would just be like he wouldn't introduce me to
anybody anything like that.

Speaker 2 (02:11:57):
In Kansas City.

Speaker 3 (02:11:59):
Oh, I'm sorry that meant at convention. I'm misunderstood.

Speaker 2 (02:12:02):
No, not a convention in Kansas City. We talked about earlier.
We talked about how you he acted like just your
friend unless it was in front of Dan or Desiree
Freeman or Aaron Dewey, but he actually liked your friend
or just a friend in public. My question was whether

(02:12:24):
or not when you got to Kansas City and you
were traveling together where people didn't know you, did that change.

Speaker 3 (02:12:33):
Yes, he was more affectionate in those cities when we
were out of town.

Speaker 2 (02:12:40):
And this trip to these Mormon historical sites before you,
before you drove to Oklahoma City. How long of a
trip was that to be?

Speaker 3 (02:12:57):
We hit multiple places in a day and then spent
the entire day in Navoo I want to say, two
or three days.

Speaker 2 (02:13:07):
And during these trips to these religious landmarks, and from
what you say, and then I want to send this
So from what you say, it sounds like there were
there were several in this in the Missouri area. Yes,
and as far as these you must have spent a

(02:13:29):
couple of nights on the road as well, right, Yes,
we did. And did you have separate hotel rooms or
just one.

Speaker 3 (02:13:39):
No, just one.

Speaker 2 (02:13:42):
Two beds or just one one queen's eye bed. Was
there sexual behavior during this trip, yh oral sex.

Speaker 3 (02:13:52):
I don't remember the nature of it. I just remember
it was not anything different than what we had been doing, and.

Speaker 2 (02:13:59):
Was something fairly consistent throughout the two or three days
that you were on this trip.

Speaker 3 (02:14:06):
I think it only occurred once during that portion of
the trip.

Speaker 2 (02:14:12):
Now you talk about going through Missouri, and was the
next portion of the trip to fight to Oklahoma or
was there something before that?

Speaker 3 (02:14:22):
No, we went to three or four different places in Missouri.
Then we drove to Navu, Illinois, Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:14:31):
And then from Illinois you went to Oklahoma City.

Speaker 3 (02:14:36):
Yes, we stayed the night in Navu, Illinois, and then
we spent the whole day until it was dark again,
and then drove most of the night I think to Oklahoma.
I remember driving a long time after Navouo Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:14:54):
And you said to convention that was a prepaid legal convention. Yes,
and based on what we heard before this sounds like
that was one of the two big conventions of the year, right, Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:15:07):
There were two conventions per year, and this one was
in the spring, Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:15:14):
And you mentioned as I think we got a little
a little bit of miscommunication earlier. You said he was
acting like your boyfriend on these trips, but it sounded
like when you got to Oklahoma City things changed. That's great, okay,
and describe for us again so we're clear. How did

(02:15:36):
things change in terms of from a physical standpoint.

Speaker 3 (02:15:42):
I just sort of became It seemed like I was
just another person there, maybe on a friend acquaintance kind
of level. I wasn't expecting. He had told me had
a time that convention is crazy and all that. But
there were plenty of moments where we were all just
hanging out and he wasn't incredibly affectionate. But there was

(02:16:10):
one time where we were up very late and we
were in the uh the hotel lobby, and I was
really tired, but I stayed to hang out with everyone,
and he put a pillow on his lap and let
me lay there. So that was really nice of him.
But other than that, he was actually very flirtatious with

(02:16:30):
another woman.

Speaker 2 (02:16:31):
Okay, without going into the details of that flirtatio, you
said he was flirtatious with another woman. Was that in
front of you? Yeah, that hurt your.

Speaker 3 (02:16:46):
Feelings, Yes, they hurt my feelings.

Speaker 2 (02:16:48):
Did you ever say anything to him about it.

Speaker 3 (02:16:53):
Afterward? After the incident, we ended up talking about it.

Speaker 2 (02:17:01):
In the past, you had mentioned how it was difficult
for you to bring these things up to him, right, Yes,
what gave you the courage or strength to bring this
up to him?

Speaker 3 (02:17:17):
I didn't bring it up to him this time. He
came to me.

Speaker 2 (02:17:19):
Think he knew me screwed up, and once he brought
it up to you, it was all forgiven.

Speaker 3 (02:17:31):
Eventually. Yeah, we talked a few minutes. Getting into it
again made me cry because it was it was very
blatant what he did, and he was very apologial.

Speaker 2 (02:17:44):
What about the way he treated you at this convention?
This kind of well, what about this disparity between the
affectionate behavior you saw when you were going through Missouri
and the behavior during the convention. How did that sudden

(02:18:07):
change to being just going from girlfriend someoney's intimate with
at Knights in the hotel room to just being one
of his buddies at the convention?

Speaker 3 (02:18:20):
Did you say, how did that?

Speaker 2 (02:18:22):
Yeah? How did that make you feel?

Speaker 3 (02:18:28):
I didn't actually over analyze it because this was a
business convention. Nevertheless, there were couples there that were friendly
outside of the business sessions, there's a lot of personal
time and hanging out and partying. So I saw other
couples being affectionate. I don't mean making out, just sitting
next to each other holding hands. Travis and I didn't
do that, so it hurt my feelings a little bit.

(02:18:52):
It was very mild in comparison to the way he
was actually acting with another woman.

Speaker 2 (02:19:00):
Okay, so when the how long was the convention? How
long were you two just buds?

Speaker 3 (02:19:08):
The convention lasts two days and there was a breakout.
I can't remember this time if the breakout came before
or after convention?

Speaker 2 (02:19:15):
Okay, do you share a hotel room with mister Alexander?

Speaker 3 (02:19:21):
Definitely not. We were in separate hotel rooms.

Speaker 2 (02:19:24):
You say, definitely not.

Speaker 3 (02:19:24):
What do you mean by that, Well, he explained to
me that it wasn't looked upon very well when to
stay in the same hotel room. Plus, because we weren't married,
we weren't going to get the same hotel room. We
would stay and he would stay in a room with

(02:19:46):
a bunch of guys, and I would stay in a
room with a bunch of girls, and we would all
split the cost.

Speaker 2 (02:19:52):
I'm a little confused then, because it seems like this
man had concern about the appearances at the convention, but
didn't have any concerns about sharing a hotel room with
you a night or two beforehand. Right, Yes, did you

(02:20:15):
ever question him about that disparity?

Speaker 3 (02:20:19):
No? I knew that it was a church standard, and
I knew that we were going against the church standard
when no one else knew about it, but not that time.
Eventually that came up between us, but at convention I didn't.

Speaker 2 (02:20:34):
Okay, do you you and Travis? Do you how do
you return back to? Well? Where do you go after
the convention's over?

Speaker 3 (02:20:45):
I believe we flew directly back from Oklahoma City to Phoenix.

Speaker 2 (02:20:49):
You flew together?

Speaker 3 (02:20:50):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:20:53):
Just the two of you were there?

Speaker 3 (02:20:54):
Other?

Speaker 2 (02:20:54):
I mean obviously it wasn't your own plane, but I mean,
were there are other associates or friends that were involved
in this track?

Speaker 3 (02:21:01):
There might have been other friends on that flight, because
tons of people go, but not that I recall. We
booked those flights together and it was just us.

Speaker 2 (02:21:08):
Okay, when you get back from Oklahoma City, do you
spend time with Travis or do you? Did you immediately
go back to Palm Desert I'm trying to remember.

Speaker 3 (02:21:26):
I believe that night we got back on a Sunday,
and he used to go to dinner at his friend's
house on Sunday's and that Sunday I went. Well, that
Sunday I went with him.

Speaker 2 (02:21:40):
Okay, did you spend more days with him?

Speaker 3 (02:21:45):
I reave. I stayed Sunday night and then left Monday.

Speaker 2 (02:21:50):
That Sunday night before Well, let me ask you this.
When he went, he went to the home of his friends.
Had you met these people before?

Speaker 3 (02:22:01):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:22:03):
Did he introduce you to them as as his girlfriend?

Speaker 3 (02:22:10):
No? I was kind of just a friend.

Speaker 2 (02:22:14):
Did that hurt?

Speaker 3 (02:22:21):
If it did, I was ignoring it. I can't recall
thinking anything particular about it.

Speaker 2 (02:22:28):
Okay, that evening, do you go to this home and
you were introduced as this buddy? Again? When you go
back to the home, is there more sexual activity.

Speaker 3 (02:22:43):
The night before I left? I really don't recall on
that night.

Speaker 2 (02:22:49):
Judge Perps, it's about three.

Speaker 1 (02:22:51):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take
the afternoon recess. Please be back in the designated area
at three twenty. Please remember the admonition or excuse, please

(02:23:13):
be seated. The record will show the jury is off
a courtroom the areas you may step down, Please be seated.

(02:23:38):
The record will show the presence of the jury, the
defendant law counsel. You may continue, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:23:50):
Miss areas before we move completely past uh the convention
in Oklahoma City. You had mentioned some incident that had
made you upset during this convention. Yes, it made you

(02:24:12):
more upset than being treated as his buddy during this convention.

Speaker 3 (02:24:17):
Right, Yes, I can't say that being treated is but
he made me really upset, just kind of bothered me.

Speaker 2 (02:24:23):
Okay, what was this incident that you're talking about that
that hurt your feelings so significantly?

Speaker 3 (02:24:33):
Well, we were This was the night of the executive
director banquet, and I went again with Travis that night.
After that banquet. Most people like to change out of
their tuxedos and gowns or whatever fancy dresses that they're
wearing into clothing that's more comfortable. So Travis and I

(02:24:54):
did that. I was in jeans or whatever, and he
changed out to the same and some people will stay
in their dresses. There was one woman that came down
the stairs from another level of the lobby. I guess
we were in the lobby area of the Sheraton Hotel,
and she was very very drunk, and she almost couldn't

(02:25:16):
stand up, and so she began to hang all over
various men, slurring things, making jokes that nobody really understood.
Everyone was laughing at her though it was kind of funny.
I thought it was kind of funny at the time too,

(02:25:37):
so I flipped up on my phone and started video
recording her just so I could show her the next day.
So everything was kind of we were just laughing, and
then she am I allowed to say what she said?

Speaker 2 (02:25:50):
Well, let's ask l let me get specifically to what
was it about this this drunk one men as you
describe her. Did she have an interaction with Travis or
something that made you upset?

Speaker 3 (02:26:06):
Yes, she was hanging all over two guys, and then
after that she kind of lurched over to Travis and
fell on him a little, and he held her up
and they were facing each other very close, and he
was holding he around the waist, and she had her
arms around his shoulders, and she had this very sexy

(02:26:28):
black gown on, very generous cleavage, kind of pressed up
against his chest, and he looked like he was loving
every minute of it. And I was sitting down on
a couch nearby. He was probably about five feet in
that direction, and I had already shut my phone at
this point because the video didn't last that long. I

(02:26:54):
just got this feeling inside, like my stomach flip flopped,
like I w I couldn't believe he was doing that,
not just doing it, but doing it right in front
of me and in front of all our friends. I
thought I was under the impression that most of our friends,
Dan was there, Aaron Dewey was there, that other people
understood we were together. And I didn't feel like that

(02:27:17):
behavior was appropriate, but I didn't wanna make a scene,
so I stood up, and I was hurt. I c
I felt like I wanted to cry, but I didn't
really want anyone.

Speaker 1 (02:27:27):
To see that.

Speaker 3 (02:27:28):
So I decided I was gonna go to a bathroom.
But in order to get to the bathroom, I had
to walk right past them. So I passed them, and
they stopped me briefly, and I kind of I don't
remember what she was slurring, but he was just kind
of laughing and they were swaying and just going like that,
and I just said smiled and said, you know, I

(02:27:50):
d I don't know if I said much. I just
kept walking after that, and I went into the bathroom
and into a stall and sat down on one of
the toilets and just started crying.

Speaker 2 (02:28:02):
Now, did you express this sounds like it was pretty
upsetting to you.

Speaker 3 (02:28:10):
Yeah, it hurt my feelings.

Speaker 2 (02:28:12):
Did you express that to Travis?

Speaker 3 (02:28:15):
Eventually, I was more appalled with the fact that he
was doing it right in front of me, and that
he was doing it at all, But it definitely hurt
my feelings and I I stayed in the bathroom for
quite some time. Leslie Udy came in I believe it
was her, sounded like her voice, uh a few times
calling my name. I think she knew I was in there,

(02:28:37):
but every time I heard the door open, I put
my feet up so that no one could see me
in the stall because I didn't want to. I didn't
want anyone to understand or to know that I was upset.
So she left, and after the second time she came
in and then left, I finally exited the stall.

Speaker 2 (02:28:53):
Why why let me stop you for a minute. Why
would you not want people to know that you were upset?

Speaker 3 (02:29:01):
I guess I was. I felt ashamed for some reason
that he was acting that way, I felt ashamed. I
don't I can't really explain why. I guess I just
felt like maybe I would be perceived as someone who
didn't deserve anything better, or someone who was maybe overly

(02:29:22):
dramatic or overreacting or emotional, too emotional I didn't want.
I wanted to be perceived more as just cool and
calm and like shrug it off, like yeah whatever, cause
maybe there wasn't any meaning behind it. But even though
they were very physically suggestive or at least close and
pressing their bodies up against each other, and it lasted

(02:29:45):
quite some time, I just still was thinking, well, maybe
there wasn't anything to that, maybe it didn't mean anything.
So I didn't want others to think that I was overreacting.

Speaker 2 (02:29:56):
Okay, and you mentioned that you brought this up with Travis.
Did you do that before you left Oklahoma City or
was that after you got home?

Speaker 3 (02:30:06):
It was shortly after I I left the stall. I
I checked my makeup because I had cried it all
off and my eyes were really puffy and red. So
I didn't want to give myself away, so I tried
to make myself appear like I wasn't crying and then
at that point, I think a half hour had passed.
So I left the bathroom and I started. I had

(02:30:33):
to walk past the same area again. Most of that
group had dispersed, so I decided to walk really fast
toward the elevators and hopefully no one would know me.
But somebody did and call my name, and out of
just to be polite, I stopped and said hi, and
and then continued on to the elevators. And then as
I was getting near the elevator, Travis texted me and

(02:30:54):
asked me where I was.

Speaker 2 (02:30:57):
So after he texted you, did you get together and
talk about it? Then?

Speaker 3 (02:31:03):
Yes? I forgot Actually one thing I did before you
texted me.

Speaker 2 (02:31:06):
Well, let's let's just focus on the conversation you had
with mister Alexander. Okay, that happened that night in Oklahoma City. Yes,
it did, Okay, And where did that conversation take place?

Speaker 3 (02:31:23):
It actually took place. He was getting trying to get
on the same elevator I was, but from his floor.
So we figured that out and I rode the elevator
up and he met me at the elevator.

Speaker 2 (02:31:38):
He met you on the elevator.

Speaker 3 (02:31:40):
As I came off the elevator.

Speaker 2 (02:31:42):
Okay, so where do you where? Where are you when
you talk about this?

Speaker 3 (02:31:45):
We are outside the elevator. There's a long hallway, but
then before you, right before the hallway, there is a
small table and a chair, maybe two chairs.

Speaker 2 (02:31:56):
We were there, okay, So you sit down and you
talk about this event. Is that right?

Speaker 3 (02:32:01):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (02:32:02):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:32:04):
And are you yelling at him? Are you crying? What
is your emotion when you're expressing your how upset you
are with him?

Speaker 3 (02:32:17):
I had calmed down a lot. I didn't want to
leave a bathroom until I was cool and collected, So
I had calmed down a lot. But as he as
he got me to talk about it, it got me
upset again. So I started crying some and he reassured
me and just said some.

Speaker 2 (02:32:33):
Nice things, and that kind of ended the discussion about
it there, at least in Oklahoma City.

Speaker 3 (02:32:44):
That didn't really end the discussion. As I was going
to sleep that night, he sent me a very nice
text message, very apologetic, saying that he wanted to be better.

Speaker 2 (02:32:58):
In terms of the conversation, the verbal conversation that ended
at the table.

Speaker 3 (02:33:02):
In the hallway, right, yes, yeah, when we were present
with each other.

Speaker 2 (02:33:13):
So you leave Oklahoma City. You've had a conversation with
about this incident. You were telling us earlier how you
had spent some time at a friend of Travis's house,
had dinner there, and I think we're at a point
in time where you were about ready to return to

(02:33:36):
Palm Desert, right, yes, okay? And how far of a
drive is Palm Desert from Mesa?

Speaker 3 (02:33:47):
I remember it being approximately five five and a half hours,
depending on how hours to drive.

Speaker 2 (02:33:54):
Now, did you have a job back in Palm Desert
at that time?

Speaker 3 (02:33:59):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:34:00):
And where were you working?

Speaker 3 (02:34:03):
I was working at Cuisto and trying to remember, I
think it was California Pizza Kitchen.

Speaker 2 (02:34:14):
Now at this point in time, though, you were also
telling us that you were seeing Travis every week, maybe
every other week. So after your return from convention, when
was the next time that you saw him?

Speaker 3 (02:34:29):
I saw him again the following weekend. There was a
recap They usually have some kind of recap event the
week following convention, I guess in various regions, and Travis
came to southern California to the one that I would
go to.

Speaker 2 (02:34:45):
Okay, and you said southern California. Where was this follow
up or I believe it.

Speaker 3 (02:34:55):
Was either in Anaheim or a city near that.

Speaker 2 (02:35:02):
Did you share a hotel room together?

Speaker 3 (02:35:05):
No, he stayed with friends and family.

Speaker 2 (02:35:08):
And did you have a hotel room I stayed.

Speaker 3 (02:35:14):
Oh? Yeah, we were all staying at the same house friends.

Speaker 2 (02:35:17):
Any sexual activity at that point in time.

Speaker 3 (02:35:22):
That night, I think we had. We did in that
house during those times, but I don't recall that specific night.
Did you recall whose home it was, Yes, it was
Chris and s Guy Hues, his parents' home.

Speaker 2 (02:35:40):
When you were at this event. Forgive me, I forget
what you referred to it as a post recap, this
post convention recap. Was his behavior the same it was
in Oklahoma City in terms of how he treated you

(02:36:02):
as a buddy or a colleague as opposed to his girlfriend.

Speaker 3 (02:36:08):
Yes, he was friendly, but not anything more than that, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:36:15):
And was he flirtatious with other women in front of
you during this recap?

Speaker 3 (02:36:24):
I don't recall. He's always very friendly with women, but
I don't recall anything that sticks out.

Speaker 2 (02:36:32):
Okay. So after this recap is over, do you both
return to your respective homes.

Speaker 3 (02:36:41):
No? The recap was one day on Saturday, and we
stayed the night at the The Hughes Parents' Home series.
It was a ranch and we were out there and
there was a party, so a lot of people came over.
It was a social event, and after the party dispersed,

(02:37:04):
we hung out and went to sleep.

Speaker 2 (02:37:09):
In the same bedroom. Yes, when you were at this ranch,
as you describe it, meeting a bunch of people, did
he introduce you as his girlfriend? No, just this is
my friend, Jody.

Speaker 3 (02:37:25):
He didn't introduce me at all.

Speaker 2 (02:37:27):
What's that?

Speaker 3 (02:37:27):
He didn't introduce me at all?

Speaker 2 (02:37:30):
So after this party at the ranch, what happens next?
I mean, do you stay at the ranch a few
more days? Or is this the last day? You're on
the ranch?

Speaker 3 (02:37:40):
A few more days? I think? I left Monday.

Speaker 2 (02:37:43):
Evening and left to me to go back to Palm Desert.

Speaker 3 (02:37:48):
Travis wanted to meet up with me in Riverside that night,
so he told me to go to I don't remember
what it's called, but it's I think it's called the
Mission or something. It's kind of a tourist destination in Riverside.
He said it's a beautiful place for photographs and that

(02:38:09):
I could get some nice pictures while he finishes up
whatever he was doing at their house, so I had
to I had to go to Verizon and then I
went there and took some pictures.

Speaker 2 (02:38:24):
Okay. And did mister Alexander then meet you with this
uh mission? In No?

Speaker 3 (02:38:33):
When he arrived in Riverside, he I can't. Oh, he
gave me directions to his grandmother's house.

Speaker 1 (02:38:42):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:38:44):
And this house was just also located in Riverside.

Speaker 3 (02:38:47):
Yes, okay to my understanding.

Speaker 2 (02:38:51):
Okay, And uh was this by the time he had
contacted you and given directions to his grandma mother's house?

Speaker 4 (02:39:01):
Was this?

Speaker 2 (02:39:02):
What time of day was this?

Speaker 3 (02:39:03):
If you can recall, it was the evening. It was dark,
but it wasn't very late. Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:39:09):
So did he then did you go to his grandma's house?

Speaker 3 (02:39:14):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (02:39:15):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:39:16):
Did he introduce you to his grandmother?

Speaker 3 (02:39:21):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:39:22):
Has his girlfriend?

Speaker 9 (02:39:24):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:39:24):
What did what did the three of you do while
you were at his grandmother's house?

Speaker 3 (02:39:31):
We just stayed. I'm trying to remember. I think I
met her three times, and I don't want to get
those things out of order. But the time that I
left to Megula, which was where the ranch was, I believe,
and then I went over to meet her, we only

(02:39:51):
stayed for a few minutes. And it was a little awkward.
I mean, I think I might have been meeting her
for the first time or and Travis was kind of
just standing there. And then he and I left to
go to Barnes and Noble.

Speaker 2 (02:40:04):
Okay, where did you wind up spending the night.

Speaker 3 (02:40:08):
That that evening? I think I drove.

Speaker 2 (02:40:10):
Home after you got back to Palm Desert. When what
we're talking about January of two thousand and seven still
is that accurate?

Speaker 3 (02:40:24):
No, convention was late March. The recap was a week later.
I think the party was on the March thirty first,
because it was the last day of the month.

Speaker 2 (02:40:37):
Okay, let me back up then, and was he at
this convention and this recap you were at least to
the to the both of years, at least the way
do you two looked at it? Anyway? You're a boyfriend

(02:40:58):
or girlfriend? Is that?

Speaker 1 (02:40:59):
Right?

Speaker 2 (02:41:01):
In between January and Mars? It's Valentine's Day?

Speaker 3 (02:41:07):
Right?

Speaker 2 (02:41:08):
Did you spend Valentine's Day with mister Alexandra? No? Did
he provide you with any Valentine's gifts? How did those?
Did he deliver them himself or were they shipped to you?

Speaker 3 (02:41:23):
They were shipped to me. We weren't together on Valentine's
Day because I worked, and also the relationship was still
kind of new, like twelve days prior, we barely made
it official, so I didn't have any big expectations for
Valentine's Day. But I came home between jobs in the
afternoon and there was a package on my doorstep.

Speaker 2 (02:41:46):
And did you open the package right away? It? Well,
let me ask you this. Was it easily identifiable to
you who the package was from.

Speaker 3 (02:41:54):
Yes, his return address was on it.

Speaker 2 (02:41:56):
Okay, did you call him before you opened it? Or
did you open it?

Speaker 3 (02:42:01):
I opened it before calling him.

Speaker 2 (02:42:04):
What was in this package?

Speaker 3 (02:42:06):
There were a variety of things when I opened it.
On top were some chocolates, Reese's peanut butter cups, and
I think the little Halloween size fun size her sheet bars.
They were all melted completely, Yes, they had melted being outside,

(02:42:27):
so I put them in the refrigerator. And then beneath
that was a shirt that he had been joking about
getting me for some months or weeks, maybe was over
a month, and it's you describe.

Speaker 2 (02:42:42):
A shirt for us.

Speaker 3 (02:42:43):
Yes, it's the one that was in the picture. So
the Travis Alexander's.

Speaker 1 (02:42:50):
What else.

Speaker 3 (02:42:52):
I laughed because it was an inside joke that he
had been making for a while. I didn't think he
would actually get me a shirt like that, but he
would joke about doing that. And so to get out
of the package and lifted it up, and there were
also other items underneath it.

Speaker 2 (02:43:07):
I'm sorry you said that.

Speaker 3 (02:43:08):
Again, there were other items underneath it?

Speaker 2 (02:43:10):
And what other items were there?

Speaker 3 (02:43:14):
The pink shorts which I didn't see his name on
the back at first. I just picked him up and
I thought they were cute.

Speaker 2 (02:43:22):
I'm gonna show you what's been marked just exhibit number
four seventeen. Is that the shirt and shorts you're talking
about receiving from mister Alexander on Valentine's Day? Yes, Valentine's Date,
two thousand seven. Yes, yeah, you mentioned some melted chocolates,

(02:43:44):
teisuer shorts. Was there anything else in this package?

Speaker 3 (02:43:51):
Yes? There was one other thing beneath the shorts was
that they were they were boys underwear, they were Spider
Man underwear.

Speaker 2 (02:44:05):
And did it seem strange to you that you were
receiving those I.

Speaker 3 (02:44:12):
Was confused at first. They were still in the package.
I don't remember the size, but they were like packaged
like in a vacuum sealed package with the cardboard, you know,
so you could see the different styles of Spider Man
that were in that package. And I thought at the time, well.

Speaker 2 (02:44:38):
Let me ask you this. Was there anything else in
that package? Was this?

Speaker 3 (02:44:45):
There was a nice letter also touch me?

Speaker 2 (02:44:48):
We approached.

Speaker 1 (02:44:50):
Yes, all right, ladies and gentlemen, we are going to
take the evening recess at this time. As I told
you yesterday, there will be no court tomorrow, so we
will see you back here on Monday at ten thirty.
Please remember the admonition. Are there any questions, have a

(02:45:14):
nice weekend.

Speaker 3 (02:45:15):
You are excused.

Speaker 2 (02:45:16):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (02:45:17):
The record will show the jury is left the Courtmoran,
please be seated.

Speaker 3 (02:45:31):
Misterious you may step down.

Speaker 1 (02:45:33):
Counsels are anything else for today?

Speaker 3 (02:45:36):
Thank you, Thank you,