Day 19

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The serious Why don't you take the stand?

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Please? Ready for.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Another question asked about be seated.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
The record will show the presence of the jury, the defendant,
and all counsel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Have any
of you had seen any coverage of this case in
the media? Did you hear anything, see anything? Did anyone
speak to you about this case? Whatsoever? I see no hands.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Mister Nerman, You may continue with.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Direct examination, miss areas you are still under oath?

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Do you understand.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Your warning as areas?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Good morning?

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Before we talk about the breaking your grandparents' home, I
just wanna go over a few more text messages. Listen

(01:42):
in that regard, I want to talk about a text
message conversation you had with uh mister Alexander on February
twenty fifth, and your NFI may approach. Do you recognize

(02:04):
those those text messages? Okay? Based on your review of
those uh, were you planning on spending time with mister
Alexander that day?

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Uh? Yes, that's after I was driving back from visiting
with Gus Serci. I was gonna drive sustained brieface.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Was it your plan based on what you saw in
those text messages? Was it your plan to spend time
with mister Alexander that day. Yes, And was it your
plan or were you anticipating the sexual activity would be
a part of what was to take place when you
met mister Alexander that day? Yes, m you remember when

(02:50):
this message, these text messages took place.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
It was late February. I think that's the twenty fifth, Okay,
but it depends on the time.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
It's sad and were on the road, Okay, on the
road near.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Where maybe somewhere around the hoover down. I think I'm
the move.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
For the emission of exhibit four forty two.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Objection for forty is admitted.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Now, on that day you reference a message, the second
message down you talk about a schoolgirl outfit and then
you reference the spider Man undies. Was that a reference
to the underwear you received for Valentine's Day?

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Looking at the prior message, was it mister Alexander's preference
that you're vagina be hairless?

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (04:03):
Did he ever explain why he.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Just said he wasn't like hair Okay.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
The next uh conversation, I wanna show you his exhibit
for the record, four forty three. That was a text
conversation you have with mister Alexander on March thirtieth, If
I may approach, take a look at that, miss areas

(04:38):
and see you reckon that that?

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (05:06):
And when did that? Uh t? When did that text
conversation begin? Uh on the thirtieth? And when did it end?

Speaker 2 (05:16):
It began on uh it says sixteen fifty.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
Mkay, yes, I am, I am not an evidence of
sheep will tell us how to looking at that, but
not from the item to date.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
In terms of date and time, miss Arius, do you
remember when that conversation ended ended?

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yes, it ended on the same day, which would be
the thirtieth at it would be ten thirty eight, even
though it's says seven to thirty eight it's Greenwich time here.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Do you remember where where you were when you were
having this text conversation?

Speaker 2 (06:04):
I was no, I don't remember. I was probably at
my house. I don't I was here, I was in Mesa.
I know that I hadn't moved yet.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
You spoke the other day of a conversation uh where
you hung up?

Speaker 4 (06:20):
Uh on?

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Mister Alexander, Is this a discussion about that conversation?

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (06:29):
And w refresh our memories. Has been a few days.
Why did he Why did he hang or why did
you hang up on him?

Speaker 2 (06:36):
He was swearing, have we you and I'm gonna move that.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
Exhibit four orty three. When you did it?

Speaker 5 (06:45):
Check your hearstake approach me.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
That serious that you could just read it. Exhibit four
forty three. Uh to yourself for us for a moment,

(07:14):
miss aious on the during that string of s text messages,
do you see where you uh apologize to mister Alexander
and tell him to have a great day?

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yes, why do you do that?

Speaker 2 (07:33):
I just wanted to end this tech, this thing going
back and forth, and I said, just just tried to
sign off kind of an.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
And and the confrontation. Yes, how did this confrontation affect you?

Speaker 2 (07:56):
It makes me well? Like I said, whenever he would
get angry, I started shaking again, so it would bother
me in that regard. And it was like whenever he
got mad, it was like it was like being in
an earthquake, like it starts and you don't know how
long it's going to last or how bad it's going
to get until it's all done. So I just didn't
want it to get as bad as some of our
arguments and fights have gotten in the past, even though

(08:18):
we were a thousand miles apart, it's still you know,
his words are worse sometimes.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Usually I'm serious. Could you take a look at the back.
What exhibit number is that?

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Just for forty three?

Speaker 3 (08:35):
Judge it this summer'm I moved to admit Exhibit four
forty three objection?

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Hearsake, I got sustain the objection without more founding.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
You said, even though you were a thousand miles away,
it's still affected.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
You, right, Yeah?

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Were you afraid?

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yes, I was afraid, not for my physical safety, but
just afraid of intimate by him.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
What were you afraid of?

Speaker 2 (09:05):
I was afraid that he would get angrier and start
maybe he would continue to swear at me in the
text messages, or that he would just start calling me
names again, or I don't know when he got angry.
It just kept on and on and on until he
was done blowing off all esteem.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Is there a way for you to describe for us how
that affected you so deeply?

Speaker 2 (09:32):
It was just I felt bullied, like it was just
miserable because I don't know. I didn't stop talking to him,
but we would talk and then he would be nice,
and then he would be mean, and then he'd be nice,
and then he would be mean. It was just I
don't know, it just really affected me. I can't really

(09:52):
describe it.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
Was there anything about what he said in these text
conversations that affected you that day?

Speaker 2 (10:05):
This one particular, yes, yes or no?

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yes? Yes again you And I'm going to move to
enter an.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
Exhibit four four three Again that a foundation and hearsay.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Don't you please, misterious, if you'd be so kind as
to take a look at exhibit four forty three, look
at the bottom of the page seventy two at text

(10:39):
message four five six nine, where you say I'm sorry,
have a great day. That's what we're referring to a
moment ago. Yes, and based on what you told us,
it was your hope that this would lead to an
end in the confrontation, and it did it.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Not right away. No.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
And as it relates to the exhibits, the outgoing face
on what you testified to earlier, the outgoing messages. Excuse me, yes,
the outgoing messages relate to what he says to you.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Okay? If you could begin reading what he said to
you on page seventy three, that being text message one
eight five seven.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Read it.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yes, please?

Speaker 2 (11:47):
You stressing me out on a daily basis is getting
really freaking old. You cry over everything, and you don't
countless bull crap on me. I wasn't appreciative of another
thing to deal with because of you. It's easy crap
to fix, but you like to ruin every day of mine,
and I'm tired of it. You texting about something time
sensitive is just a way to reel me back into
the bull crap. Otherwise you would have just told me

(12:10):
I'm sick of your soap opera and your ways. You
purposely try to ruin every day. It seems you're getting
good at it.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
How do you respond my response?

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Read my response? Yes, I'm just as tired of your
hateful words. Do you think it's a day in the
park for me when you're mean? I was just bragging
to a girlfriend about how awesome and cool you are.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
What does he say in response?

Speaker 2 (12:33):
If you're tired of me leave me alone? And your
response whatever, Travis?

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Do you say more than whatever? Travis?

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (12:44):
What else do you say?

Speaker 2 (12:45):
I hope you realize you got upset over nothing. I
was just telling you about one thing. I was still
half asleep, and the next thing I knew you were
raising your voice and swearing. If I had been more coherent,
then maybe I wouldn't have hung up on you. I
hate that. You're right, maybe I would have made a
better decision. But I've already apologized twice, and you not once.
You're just choosing to be stubborn and remain pissed off.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
Does he respond to that?

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yes to me.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
If you then take a look at text message number
one nine that's on the last page of the exhibit.
Tell us how he responds.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
I don't ever want to get another freaking text from
you again or a call unless it's an apology, and
thank you for constantly having to take on your never
ceasing problems, not one freaking more.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
And that was on March thirtieth of two thousand and eight, correct, Yes,
after March thirtieth of two thousand and eight. Do you
speak or text with him again?

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yes? When later that day or maybe shortly thereafter a
couple hours?

Speaker 3 (13:58):
And was there any discussion about this fight?

Speaker 2 (14:03):
I don't think we discussed the details anymore. It was
just apologies.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Now I want to talk to you about a text
message conversation you had with mister Alexander on the seventh
of April two thousand and eight. All right, okay, and
this would have been after you had moved away from Mesa.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Correct, Yes, I think I was still on the road
on that.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Date, and that was that was the night you were
in Hollister spending the night with your sister. Is that correct? Yes? Okay.
If I'm a patrona, I'm going to show you what's
been marked as he did it or for good, the
SOB kindness areas is through you. This exhibited it to yourself. Yes,

(15:13):
you recognize the conversation.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
I do, but it was actually on the sixth that
it took place.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Okay, So the difference being the difference in time that
we talked about previously with text messages.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, there's seven hours ahead.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Your and I'm gonna move to have exhibit four four
two moved in evidence.

Speaker 5 (15:38):
Actually here's irrelevant.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Counsel one. Serious, I'm going to ask that you move
your microphone to your right. Thank you, may proceed, Thank
you again.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Serious, Well, I'm showing four or for let's talk a
little bit about.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Excuse me, mister my I think it's four forty four.
Would you look at that document?

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yes, four forty four.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
My apologies, your owner. Let's take a look at I
want to talk a little bit about the circumstances things
that were going on on the sixth without telling us
what was what was said in these text messages. If

(16:34):
you could review them and just tell us what was
going on between yourself and mister Alexander. Looking at the
text messages, referring specifically the text messages on page seventy seven.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
I was on the road after leaving Mesa with my
U haul trek. You wanted to know where I was
and how far that was from Wa Rica Elia.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
You were moving what you told us earlier, you were
moving to get away from him, right.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yes, that was one of the main reasons.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
And he contacts you the same day, and this is
the day that he flipped you off as you were
driving away. Is that correctly earlier?

Speaker 2 (17:27):
I think it was the next day. I think I
slept in the truck one of those nights.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
And then looking at this exhibit, there appears to be
a gap in time between message one two two nine
five and message one two three oh eight. Can you
explain that gap in time for us?

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, it looks like it's two hours and eighteen minutes.
I did my math right.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Just you just driving and not responding or sleeping or no,
I was.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
In I was at my sister's house already. We had
texted kind of said good night sort of thing, and
I went to.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
Sleep, okay, And you woke up then to text messages
text message one two three oh eight.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yes, it came through broken up in many text messages.
It was really long.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
So did your was your phone on on silent or
did this actually this message actually wake you up? Or
did you wake up and check your phone?

Speaker 2 (18:38):
It woke me up because it kept beeping because so
many kept coming through. It wasn't on silent.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Okay, you and I'm going to move to new exhibit
four forty four.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Council, please approach.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
Saris trying your chans and back to this gap in
time between text message one two two nine five and
text message one two threeh eight. You mentioned you were
at your sister's house and then you went to sleep. Correct, yes, okay,

(19:18):
Just to clarify, then you didn't have any conversations with
mister Alexander, be it through instant messages or telephone between
these text messages. Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Definitely not their instant message, and I'm pretty sure we
didn't have any phone calls between that time.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Okay, so you're spending time with your sister and you
woke up to text message one two three oh eight.
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yes, I was staying in a separate bedroom and I
had gone to sleep by then.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Jodje, I'm gonna again move to admit Exhibit four forty four.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Exhibit four forty four is admitted.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
I want to discuss now with you the text message
that you woke up to when you were in Hollister
with your sister. Had you told mister Alexander you were
moving away to try to get him out of your life?

Speaker 2 (20:22):
No, I wouldn't have told him that.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Well, I told him that we should need to spend
more time part but not to get him out of
my life.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Okay, but that's what you wanted, Not.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
To get him out of my life. I wanted us
to be able to have a healthy friendship.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
And again just doesn't show up here. We're talking about
April at this time. Then we're talking about April seventh
or early morning hours.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
It would have been the sixth or three two one twelve,
like I think ten or eleven at night.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Okay, so you woke up to this message says do
not call me, do not text me anything, and is
this you? You this? There's reference to uh Michelle, k

(21:21):
is Is that the fight you talked about earlier? He
was mad that somebody was saying something about him or
outing him as dating other women? Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah? Her name was Maria, not Michelle. She mentioned he
had been dating me.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
He says, after tomorrow, it's gonna be really bad for you.
He says, after tomorrow, it's gonna be really bad for you.
Time to spit it out. What was he referencing?

Speaker 2 (21:50):
He was he wanted to know who Marie was. I
didn't know who she was. She I bum. She came
into my work. I worked it Ruby Tuesdays. She was
sitting in another person's section and I brought her some
food and she recognized me. So there was no way
I could find out who she was. She was there
and gone. We didn't get into details about his life

(22:13):
like he had thought. He just mentioned, oh yeah, Travis
had dated Lisa, which brought up the conversation. And so
that's what he wanted me to spit out, was who
is Marie?

Speaker 3 (22:23):
Basically and when he said it was going to get
real bad for you, what is the context of that?
Was there something behind that threat?

Speaker 2 (22:35):
I imagine there was, but I couldn't imagine what it was.
But I didn't know what he was capable of, so
that bothered me. Worried me.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
He says, I promise you the punishment will be better
than the lie to your understanding. What did he mean
by that?

Speaker 2 (22:59):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
Huge day, had he threatened to do something to you
outside of this conversation.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Not? Up to this point he hadn't, so I didn't
know what he was talking about.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
I wanna talk to you now about a text message
conversation you had with mister Alexander on April eighth, two
thousand eight, and I'm gonna hand you what's been marked
Exhibit four forty five. You could just review that to yourself, please,

(23:49):
m okay, have you read them all?

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yes, I've read them.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
Do you recognize them?

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Without telling us exactly what was said, what was the
context of the conversation? On April eighteenth.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
I had left down and obviously I think I was
just back in my rika and he discovered that I
left a drawing behind that he gave me and it
really made him mad. It was just something I forgot
as I was moving and it upset him.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
And this is what we talked about last week, this
drawing that he had signed yes, And in terms of
his you know you talked about the conversation. What effect
did the anger that he displayed during this text conversation,

(24:50):
what did it have on you? Did I have that
same shaking effect we've been talking about, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
It did. I just wanted to get him calm down
and explain to him that it wasn't intentional, that it
was an accident that I forgot.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
You're remember a movie exhib fours.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
Don't have any objection to if the foundation that we
talked about is there, I don't have any objection to
the majority of it. Over the end portion of the
text message talks about the donta.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
And chuse if we're gonna have this complex the discussion,
we should have it advance. Okay, this areas do us
a favor, and let me let me draw your attention
to page seventy nine of that exhibit, or what is

(25:53):
denoted as seventy nine of one thirty two, and drawing
your attention again to h two, one two, three three two,
and you're having the discussion about this this signed item.
Could you tell us what he says to you and

(26:13):
text message one two three three two he.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Says, do not call back. It's a typo. I think
I'm sick of you playing stupid and dealing with childish tactics.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
And does that? Do you respond to that before he
texts you again?

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Uh? No, it doesn't. Well, I might have been typing
a response, but another response or another text message came
through before I respond.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
What was the next message you received from him? Could
you read that to us?

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yes, it was some stupid ass way of ruining yet
another of mine, which you have done so much of
Bitter feelings are brewing in me towards you. I'm sick
of having days ruined by you. If it keeps up
by I will have a genuine dislike for you. I'm
asking you before it gets to that, to stop doing it,
before I start seeking revenge. Your account with me is overdrawn. PS.

(27:10):
You need to start paying me back, So you better
start looking for a job.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
And paying you back. Is that a reference to the BMW? Yes,
drawing your attention to text message five zero four to
four your response was to apologize to him. Is that right?

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (27:33):
As a matter of fact, if drawing your attention to
page eighty is you apologize again and tell them, don't
really be happy? Is that right?

Speaker 2 (27:48):
It's one text message broken up three times and it
looks like it was sent twice.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Okay, an accident, but that was the substance of one
of the things you said to him, right, Yes, drawing
your attention to page eighty one of one point thirty two,
and this exhibit text message one, two, three, three five

(28:15):
after you apologize. This text message came after you apologized him.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (28:21):
Could you read that? For us?

Speaker 2 (28:25):
It's just always something, Jody, it just gets old. If
it was hard for you to take because of sentimental reasons,
you shouldn't have asked me to sign it and then
made me sign it an ink right away to leave
it after all. That was rude and inconsiderate to me,
which has been a common trend from you lately. You
say you meant to get it, but even if that's true,
you put it there so you could leave it and

(28:45):
knew it would upset me, But you simply don't care,
Just like wasting an entire week of my life, sending
me on a wild goose chase based on a lie.
You just didn't care to be considerate on how all
that affects me. I'm trying to save my house, build
a business. So much conflict and you don't care about
anything that doesn't involve you. It's very upsetting and I'm
tired of it. I don't want to deal with anything

(29:08):
big or little that is some stupid ploy. You're not sorry.
If you were, you wouldn't continue onward with this stuff.
I'm just asking you to think of me. If you
would have thought of me for one second, you wouldn't
have left that there. Imagine if I did that to
you with something you gave me, you'd cry for weeks.
Just give me a pardon from any madness. I don't

(29:29):
need it. It wearing me out, and if it continues,
just like I have to give you motivation to tell
me the truth, I'll give you motivation to quit screwing
with me.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
And do you know what that motivation was?

Speaker 2 (29:48):
I don't. I mean, i'd probably imagine the worst.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
How cold? How did you respond? Going back to the
next page, there are referring you to text message five
zero five three five zero five, four, five zero five
five and five zero five seven. Could you read those

(30:21):
for us? I know that they are could you read
it to us in the order which you typed them?
I know they didn't come in that way, but if
you could just read it in the order you typed them.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, the first three you mentioned is there are only
three of four that showed up. The other the third
second one never came through, so it'll be broken up.
Never to deliberately upset you, Hun Sorry again, I was
just confused in so many ways. I feel like since
I left Asy fog has lifted and things seem so much.

(30:54):
The next message is missing, and it goes on to three.
Both have a lot to recover from, but also a
lot to be happy about and thankful for. I love you.
Things are only getting better now, I know it. I
haven't felt this good and so long. I almost forgot
what it was like.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
What do you mean when you said you hadn't felt
this good and so long? What was that a reference to?

Speaker 2 (31:15):
I just felt like more like I was like my
old self again when I got back to Iyrika, and
like I was just living this in this fog. This
almost like a suicidal fog the whole time I was
in Arizona, and it was like almost like getting oxygen
to get out of there.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
Did these conversations you had with mister Alexander did they
draw you back into that fog?

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Looking at text message five zero six zero on that
same page, there's a reference to a phone call. Do
you see that there?

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (32:03):
I do you say thank you for calling and say
that that was very nice of you this phone call? Then,
was mister Alexander once again apologetic?

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yes, he was apologetic. I mean he felt justified, but
he was apologetic and he was nice. I forgot to
read one of the text messages that you asked me
to read, Which one was that five zero five seven?

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Okay, go ahead and read that for us.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
It just says now that that's all behind us. Let
us just chalk chalk it up to that drawing. Chalk
up that drawing to one last ditzy thing. I honestly
forgot to grab it after I put it there. I
think it's the second part of the text message didn't
come through.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Okay, So just just to clarify, then, what you're saying
here and what your testimony is is that you didn't
not bring this item with you, this sin item with you,
out of some evil intent to ruin mister Alexander's day?
Is that right?

Speaker 5 (33:08):
East for itself?

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Leading?

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Stained?

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Did you forget this drawing out of a desire to
ruin mister Alexander's day? No, as a matter of fact,
you didn't want to do anything that would incur his
anger at.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
All, did you, Stained?

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Did you want mister Alexander to be angry with you
because you'd start shaking if he did, didn't you? Would
you start shaking if he got mad at you?

Speaker 6 (33:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (33:41):
It depended on his fury, in his wrath.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
When he swore you, Yes, when he called you.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Who yes, a slut? Yes?

Speaker 3 (33:49):
That made you shake? You were scared?

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Right?

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Were you scared?

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Did you like it when he called you a three hole? Wonder?

Speaker 2 (33:59):
No?

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Let's talk about a conversation you had with mister Alexander
on the nineteenth of April two thousand and eight that
has been marked Exhibits four four six. I think you

(34:28):
could just do it. It was a favorite to read
that teach. Yes, do you remember the Well, let's ask

(34:49):
let me ask you this first. What was the subject
matter of this tax conversation?

Speaker 2 (34:57):
I was telling him a story on the phone and
he asked me to get to the point, and I
think my feelings were hurt, so I said something to
the effective like I always listened to him when he
wants to tell a story, even if it goes a
long time.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
And did was that well received by him?

Speaker 2 (35:19):
No?

Speaker 3 (35:21):
And you were living in why Rika at the time
of these text messages. Yes, his anger still affected you.
Then on April nineteenth, two thousand and eight, he did
his anger still affect you on April nineteenth, two thousand
and eight.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yes, you earn.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
I'm going to move to admit Exhibit four forty seven.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Dependent in all council because youenerman, you may continue.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Thank you Anna serious. I think I got my notes
a little jumbled before lunch, but let me then begin.
I want to direct your attention to some texts text
conversations you had with mister Alexander on the eleventh, referring
you to Exhibit four. Review those to yourself, please, yeah,

(36:28):
and do you see the day that this text or
as far as the messages are displayed here, do you
see the day and time posted that those began?

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yes, May eleventh, and it would be close to two
in the morning until close to three, around three in
the morning. Wait, if I did my mouth right, it's
early early in the morning.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
And this was the day after the text messages we're
just talking about before lunch? Is that right?

Speaker 2 (37:07):
About two days after?

Speaker 3 (37:08):
About two days after?

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Right?

Speaker 3 (37:11):
As you look at these messages looking at the hours,
do you recall looking at the hours being a little loft,
you recall whether these messages took place before or after
the recorded phone call we heard last week?

Speaker 2 (37:31):
This would have been the day after the last text
messages were the ninth okay, tape was the tenth, and
this is the eleventh.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
The phone the phone sex conversation that was recorded that
happened on a tenth correct, yes, okay, but that would
have been the early morning hours of the tenth, not
the late night of the tenth, right.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Right hours after the mean text message.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
So this is about twenty four hours later, right approximately? Okay?
And do you reckon nine thst messages as being messages
you received from Sir Alexander, referring specifically to one four
one two zero and six six three one yes, as
well as message one four one two one yes. You

(38:18):
moved to admit, is it a four four nine.

Speaker 5 (38:26):
Check some lack an foundations.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
She indicated that m he's rely these messages, but there's
also messages for her.

Speaker 5 (38:33):
She has not identified those.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
And the same issue that we talked about before, mister Erman,
how you look.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
At the rest of these messages? Do you recognize them all?

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (38:54):
And is that the text message conversation you had with
Minster Alexander Uh around the ten of May two thousand
eight eleventh?

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yes, we're we're going back and forth.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
Right, you are not moved to a man four forty
nine and here's it.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Approachably? Oh?

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Is that was telling me what was said on May eleven,
two thousand eight. Look in your exhibit four forty nine
and directing just some of those messages. Did he say
nice things to you in those messages?

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Did those make you feel good about yourself?

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Did it make you I think your words were uh
better about continuing the association with him usually the world?

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yes, those are my words.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
I'm gonna move to a mid exhibit four forty nine
year honor that you.

Speaker 5 (39:56):
Read usual stipulation or about no jurction?

Speaker 4 (40:01):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Does your monitor work there? And that's serious?

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Ye?

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Would you be so kind as to read uh text
message one four one two zero.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
To us, Honey you I think you meant to say,
look beautiful in all.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Your picks and that made you feel good?

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yep?

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Can you read message six six three one to us thanks.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Sweed, do you never failed to make me feel beautiful?

Speaker 3 (40:43):
And the next one.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Plus I just got your other picks downloaded and you
are smoking.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Hot in them and your responses.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah yeah with a smiley face.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Is that an expression the fact that you were happy
that you've had mister Alexander's approval for your pictures.

Speaker 5 (41:07):
Overalled.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Yes, it still meant a lot to you. On May
eleven or two thousand, maybe.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
His approval.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Made me feel and that feeling.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Meant a lot to you, right, it was preferable to
the alternative, The.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Alternative being what.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
How I felt when he was not.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
Being and that goes to the shaking and the fear.
Yeah that's the alternative. Ye. What was the alternative, miss Arius?

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Just the horrible feeling of when he's coming down on
me and just feeling like I have to cower.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
You still felt like you had to cower a thousand
miles away.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
I did, s Ares.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
I wanna show you what's in March as the exhibit
for fifty, you could take a look at all those messages.

Speaker 7 (42:08):
Play.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
Yes, I remember these very well, you say, very well, why.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Cause I remember that whole night pretty well.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Okay. And it's just so we're clear that whole night
this is th w what what day is this?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
This was? It started May the night of May twenty
fifth and moved into May twenty sixth.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
And if you if you looked at all exhibit ma'am, yes,
and does that contain the uh B. What that is
is the interaction between you and two via text message
that day.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yes, during this part of the day, okay, And you
said you remembered.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
That day well, without going into what's in the text
messages for the moment, what was going on the twenty
fifth and twenty sixth of May between you and mister Alexander?

Speaker 2 (43:37):
I called him. This is the time period where I
sent him another pamphlet with those phone numbers on it
for some kind of counseling or mental health services and
he got upset. So it started this way basically.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Okay, this fight did it take place? And we heard
earlier in the trial, we heard the instant message interaction
you had with mister Alexander where he called you a slut,
a whore in a three hole. Wonder was that part
of this fight?

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (44:21):
And were there phone conversations that day as well?

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (44:28):
And then these text messages that we've just talked about
in Exhibit four fifty that was also part of this fight.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
This was the start of it, Okay, sort of the
beginning of the fight.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
Okay, you know, I'm going to move to a net
exhibit for the.

Speaker 4 (44:54):
Same with the check before lack of foundation impact on
the defendant.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
Said, did you feel good when he was saying those
things he said to you on those text messages?

Speaker 6 (45:11):
No?

Speaker 3 (45:12):
Is that the wrath that you feared?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yes, that was the beginning of it.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Did it make you shake?

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Yeah? At first it did.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Well.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
I was asleep actually when when some of it started.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
So when you read them, did it make you shake?

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yes? It came through, and each time the phone would
be just made my anxiety build because I knew it
was gonna be well. I assumed it was gonna be
something not nice.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
Moved to exhibit four fifty runner.

Speaker 5 (45:43):
What are the avowal of the objection?

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Exhibit four fifties admitted.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
I want to speak with you then about some of
the things that were included in his wrath. I want
to show you. I want to draw your attention, miss Area,

(46:08):
specifically to the text message denoted as one four eight
two nine. Can you see that un your screen?

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Okay? Can you read that for us?

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yes? I sent you a response to your dire conversation
that I hope you read because you need to read it.
Maybe it will spark human emotion in you, something that
only seems to exist when it comes to your own problems.
But everyone else is just a part of your sick agenda.
By the way, your pick comment to Danny Jones makes

(46:45):
you look like a pure whore even more to the
people who know you. You should be embarrassed by it.
But if you knew what I knew about you, he'd
spit in your face, so would everyone else. I have
never in my life been hurt so bad by someone.
But why do I even say it? Because you don't care.
It doesn't serve your evilness.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
Before we move off that text message, I want to
ask you a few questions. You said I sent your
response to your Dire conversation. Was that something that happened
verbally or was that something that happened over in some
other form of communication.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
It was he It was verbal. He wanted me to
text it, but I didn't want to talk about his
issues and the text messages.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
What do you mean his issues?

Speaker 2 (47:32):
His his sexual attraction to children.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
It also saysn't here your kid comment to Danny Jones
makes you look like a whore, or excuse me, a
pure whore? Was that the one regarding man boobs? The
anchorman reference you were speaking of last week? Yeah, it
was a joke, drawing your tent two. The next message

(48:04):
here number one four eight three zero. You read that
to us.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
You couldn't get off your lazy butt to read it,
could you. That's the sociopath I know so well. It
freaking figures to your understanding.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
What said a reference to.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Well, that's because the text message above that came through
and that time would be around one o'clock in the morning.
So it woke me up and I was asleep. And well,
first he called me, He sent that and called me,
and so when I answered the phone, and I tried
to read through the text messages, but I was very
groggy and I was disoriented, and so after I shut

(48:46):
my phone, I'm I was hesitant to get up anyway,
because in order to look at the email he wanted
to send me, I had to go into my grandmother's
room turn on her computer, and that would wake her up.
It was one o'clock in the morning. The bright light
from the monitor would wake her up. And she's older,
so she has a hard time sleeping as it is.
So I kind of lay there for a minute contemplating
whether or not to do that, and I was very groggy,

(49:07):
so I slipped right back into sleep and didn't get up.
So he was mad because I didn't get up and
read it.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
And he refers to you there as a sociopath. How
did that make you feel?

Speaker 2 (49:25):
I don't know. He's called me worse things, I thought,
so it didn't make me feel good, But it wasn't
the worst that he's called.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Drawing your attention if you could read for us text
message one four eight three one.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
I don't want your apology. I want you to understand
what I think of you. I want you to understand
how evil I think you are. You are the worst
thing that ever happened to me.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
How did that make you feel?

Speaker 2 (49:53):
It made me feel not good. I guess it made
me feel yucky.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
I guess say, Okay, you mentioned I don't want your apology?
Was there an apology? Text message is missing here? Did
you speak with him?

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (50:12):
What apology? To your understanding? Is he referring to.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
I apologize for not getting out of bed and going
to read his email?

Speaker 3 (50:20):
And how did how did you do that through text message?

Speaker 2 (50:23):
It was either text or phone call. I was half asleep,
but that's what I apologized for.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
And why did you feel the need to apologize for
not being able to read his email? For what would
mean waking up your grandmother? Why did you feel the
need to apologize for that?

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Well, we were kind of night owls anyway, So I
don't I don't think he understood what it would have
meant for me to get out of bed and go
at this hour right now, and where we get to
go look at that email? So I guess I don't know.
I used to just be I used to be able
to turn on my own laptop and get online or

(51:09):
talk to him on the phone late at night, but
this night I was sleeping and my grandparents were sleeping,
So I just felt like I needed to apologize. I
guess I didn't want him to be mad that I
didn't get up.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Sounds like you did a lot because you didn't want
him to be mad. Is that fair to say?

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (51:29):
One last text message in that straying, referring you to
one four eight three two after you apologize, did you
read that one for us?

Speaker 2 (51:44):
You are a sociopath. You only cry for yourself. You
have never cared about me, and you have betrayed me
worse than any example I could conjure. You are sick
and you have scammed me.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Do you know what he means by portrayed him? Did
you to your understanding what that would mean? If he
not that was fine?

Speaker 2 (52:04):
I do. It has to do with I mean. I
promised him that I wouldn't tell anybody about his issues
if he promised to get help. And another stipulation I
made was that he couldn't stay the night at his
friend's house because they have children and until he got help.
And so my understanding was that he did actually end

(52:26):
up staying there, and I talked to him about it,
and I reminded him that he needs to get help.
And I also sent the pamphlet around the same time,
because he's on the tape banasizing about anally raping a
twelve year old, and it just I wasn't going for
twelve year olds, going for adult even though you know so, uh,

(52:47):
just all these things and it was very awkward. I
didn't wanna put it in text messages. I didn't want
that kind of thing. But I think, well, he just.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Stay explained further, you said, he just what O.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
He was not happy that I kept pushing him and
pushing him because he wanted me to drop the subject.
So back in January, I dropped the subject, assuming that
he was going to take the necessary steps that he
needed to take, and it was apparent I didn't feel
like he was taking those steps. So I was kind of,

(53:25):
I guess you could say, pressuring him, not in a
big way, but just urging him. And he didn't like that.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Now, in May of two thousand and eight, you're living
at your grandparents home. We've talked about that. Did you
have your own room there?

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (53:45):
Okay? And where were you working in May of two
thousand and eight May?

Speaker 2 (53:55):
I think I was working at Casamos by then, okay.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
And this is a Mexican restaurant.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yes, it's a Mexican family restaurant.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Did you ever refer to it as Margaritaville.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
No, I thought that was a country song.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
And were you what was the status? So you talked
a few moments ago in regards to the text messages,
we talked about your photography business. What was the status
of that? If it was it taking flight?

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Where was it my photography? I thought was taking flight
because it was the end of the school year. There
were a lot of juniors going into their senior year
that they wanted photographs and portraits. So I had booked
some of those and another wedding and also went in
the fall, so I felt like it was starting. My
calendar was starting to fill up a little bit as
our as photography goes.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Okay, so your ear, your business is taking flight. You
have a job. Why did you still feel the need

(55:17):
to interact with mister Alexander or try to solve his
issues by sending in these pamphlets and having.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Well solving his issues. I wanted him to get him
to solve his own issues, but I cared about him,
and I mean, you're seeing the worst of it. But
in between these times, he was very kind, and he
was very loving, and he would apologize, and it seemed
to counterbalance it, because there were times when he was
so sweet and so nice, and he would praise me

(55:46):
and compliment me and make me feel very special, and
then he would get pissed off and say things like that.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
And at this time in your life May two thousand
and eight. Talked about this a while ago, but just
specifically late late May of two thousand and eight. What
are your interests, if any, with Ryan Burns.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
At that point, I just wanted to get to know
him better. I didn't know how we would jive, if
we would jive, if our personalities would mesh at all,
if I mean, I never even really I didn't remember
interacting with him in Oklahoma City. I had only seen
a few photos of him on his mission in Africa
on the internet on his MySpace page, and that was it.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
So had you and mister Burns made any plans to
get together?

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (56:48):
And when was that to take place?

Speaker 2 (56:51):
That was to take place? Well, eventually my trip was
to Utah was finalized for early June.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Okay, Andre, was you taught your only destination or were
you you going elsewhere?

Speaker 2 (57:05):
I had a lot of destinations?

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Okay, Well, why don't we kind of go down the
list of where you were planning on going. Okay to start, Yeah,
where were you? Well, let me let me well, yeah,
let's talk about that. Where were you? What was your
first destination.

Speaker 4 (57:27):
Going to be?

Speaker 2 (57:28):
My first destination was going to be Monterey, California.

Speaker 3 (57:31):
And when were you planning on leaving on that? For that?

Speaker 2 (57:36):
For monitor, my plan was to drive to Monory on
the first day's day. Then I get at the next
day though, but what day? Oh, I would have left
Monday morning, the second early Monday.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Monday morning the second. Did anything happen between the text
conversations and your plan to leave for the trip?

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (58:04):
What happened?

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Well, at the end of the text conversation, the text
conversation you saw led to an online chet conversation that
went on for hours, which eventually led to us getting
off the phone and on I mean off the computer
onto the phone where he wanted more phone sex. And
so at that point, after we calmed down from that,
he was talking again about coming up so that he

(58:27):
wanted to try this little red riding hood thing and
we were just determining when that would happen.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Okay, well, let me ask you this. Do you remember
your grandparents' home being broken into.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
H Yeah, well I wasn't there, but.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
Yes, okay, do you remember about when that occurred?

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Well, I understand it occurred May twenty eighth, two thousand
and eight.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
Where were you, Well, we heard a testimony earlier that
eventually you came to the house at day you recall
doing that?

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (59:03):
And do you recall what day that was?

Speaker 2 (59:05):
May twenty eight?

Speaker 3 (59:08):
To your recollection? Who called you and advised you that
the home had been broken into?

Speaker 2 (59:19):
I don't know that. Who called me? Because someone had
called my sister. We were out of cell phone range,
and when we came back into cell phone range, her
phone beat because she had a voicemail, so she checked
the voicemail and that's when she said that what had happened.
So we went straight home after that.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
And where were you when you received the message that
your grandparents' homan had been broken into?

Speaker 2 (59:43):
I was We were in Hilt. Hilt is a small
town about I think like an eighth of a mile.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
From the border.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
It's right on the border and out of cell phone
ranger at a Buddhist monastery way out there.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
You say you saved bord or to what border? Or
you refresh the organ border? So and how far refresh
our memory? How far was the Oregon border from White Rika.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Fifteen twenty minutes depending on how fast you're driving.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
So, once you got this message, did you go straight
back to your grandparents home?

Speaker 6 (01:00:22):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Did you break into your grandparents home to steal this gun?

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Did you orchestrate or have someone else break into your
grandparents' home to steal the gun?

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
No? I did not.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
We saw testimony and pictures of your grandparents' home and
that we're taking that day you were recasting those.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Is it correct? Then you simply could have had you
wanted the gun, and could had just opened the cabinet
and taken it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I guess if I'd known it was there, I could have.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
You did not know that they had this pistol? No?

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I knew my grandfather had rifles and shotguns, but I
didn't know yet I had.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
When you learned of the burglary, did you learn that
a handgun had been stolen? Or did you learn that
the handgun.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Had been stolen eventually? Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Did you know it at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Well, not when I first arrived. I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Okay, But did your did your grandfather or grandmother eventually
tell you that this happened.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yes, my grandmother did. Okay, on the same day.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Okay. Now we talked about how you were planning on
going on this road trip. Your first destination was monitoring
eventually Monterey, California, right, yes? And how far was Monterey,

(01:02:15):
California from Guayrika.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
California Approximately seven seven and a half hours okay.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
And what was the purpose of traveling from Wayrika to Monterey?
What were you going to do in Monterey?

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Monterey was just to stop over because I had friends there,
and then I wanted to continue to LA.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
And you say friends there? Who who was there?

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Matt and Darryl?

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
Okay, How were you planning to make this trip from
Wayreka Monterey and all the way eventually up to Utah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
My plan was to go to Monterey, then to Los Angele,
well not Los Angeles the city, but the area, and
then I was maybe going to go to San Diego.
That was tentative because John Dixon was inviting me down there,
depending on time. I didn't really have a set by tinerary.
I was just sort of on my road trip going

(01:03:18):
and I had three or four days off and I
was glad, so then I was going to cut up
through Nevada in Utah, and depending on if I was
from going from San Diego or Lair Monterey, I was
going to either see Lake Powell or Death Valley. I
don't know where Death Valley was in relations, so I
just map quested it and then head to West Jordan
and hopefully, depending on his schedule or time, we were

(01:03:41):
going to see some national parks there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Okay, a little more specifically, how were you intending to
travel to all these different destinations?

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Well, I wasn't intending to hit every single one. I
wanted to go to San Diego because hotel or not,
it was on the list. Death Value is on the list,
like Powells on the list. The national parks in Utah
on the list, and that was sort of my travel
goal at the time, So showing up and photographing it
and walking around a little would have counted as a destination.
And back on the road.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
Back on the road. Getting back to my question, how
were you intending to go to all these destinations? Driving
physically right? Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Did you own a car at the time in May
of two thousand and eight, yes, And was that the
infinity we talked about before? Yes, was the plan to
drive the Infinity to all these destinations? No, why not?

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
I was I was broke at the time, and I
wasn't able to make my car payments. I wasn't also
unable to keep up the maintenance that's required as far
as getting the transmission service. The oil changed that kind
of thing, so my Infinity wasn't in the best road shape. Also,
a sport car with a bigger, more powerful engine, and
it's a gas hog, So with all those miles, I

(01:05:05):
didn't want to waste all that gas.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
Okay, So what were you going to do that in
terms of securing another vehicle to drive?

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
I wanted to rent a more fuel economic car, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
And we heard about you renting a car from the
renting airport. Do you recall doing that?

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Okay. How did you come to wind up renting a
car at this location as opposed to somewhere that might
be closer to you? Well?

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
There, I think there are rent car rentals in mau Rika,
but I went to it was either Priceline or Expedia
or Travelocity or orbits one of those things, one of
those travel websites where you put in your information to
rent a car. The only nearest cities that were coming
up were Medford, Oregon and Reading, California. So I was
going south. Medford's fifty miles north, running a south. I

(01:06:01):
have family in both places, so I thought I can
drive my car to either location, park it, and get
on the road, so south made more sense.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
I'm sorry, what was that last part?

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
Going south made since because I was headed that way.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
Tell us, then, how did you get to Reddit?

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
I drove my car.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
When you made the reservation with the on the car,
what do you remember what sort of information you had
to provide, be it orbits, a price line, or whoever
you garnered the car for it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
To the best of my recollection, I needed to give
my name, probably a phone number in payment information.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Okay, do you recall going to the Reading airport to
rent the car? Do you recall talking to mister Colombo? Yes,
to your recollection, how long did you spend at that
car rental location speaking with mister Colombo?

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
I would say five minutes the first time, and then
I came back in another five minutes maybe.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
Okay, why did you come in the first time?

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
You mean, why did I come back in? Yeah, I
came out and saw it was a red car, and
so I came back in and asked him if he
had a different color. Wow, I've always been told not
to drive red cars. They get pulled over more often.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
You saw the documents mister Colombo filled out saying that
you claimed that the car was filled with smoke? Is
that accurate? Or smelled of smoke? Excuse me? Is that accurate?

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
No? He told police that I exchanged the cars.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
Speculation as to what he told police, miss Arius? When
you not not what he told police? What did you
Why did you tell him you wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
A different car because of the color.

Speaker 3 (01:08:16):
You never complained about smoking the car?

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
No? I did not.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
And did he give another car?

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Eventually he did?

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
Yes, Okay, after some period of discussion.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Yeah, he said he's never had that request. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
Were you under the impression that he had to come
up with some other reason to issue another car to you?

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
He just as her impressions. What was the answer that question,
miss Ais.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Yes, just selected something, he selected something, Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
When you rented the car, what did you give him?
Did you give him your driver's license.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Driver's license and payment information? A debit card?

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
I think okay, debit card that had your information on it, right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
There was some discussion about the color of your hair.
We saw pictures earlier referencing you to exhibit four fourteen
picture of you and jewel right. Yes, now we heard

(01:09:39):
mister Colombo testify that you had blonde hair when you
showed up to rent the car and recall for us again,
when was this picture taken?

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
I believe it was in May or I don't remember
the date. It was in the spring after I moved
to where we could.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
How are we having to take a look at the
back the information here? Stop telling us the date?

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Did?

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
He had said?

Speaker 5 (01:10:14):
So she can't tell us the face?

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
The Heineman evidence shows that what this picture was taken
on May eighteenth, two thousand eight.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
I think it said fifteenth, fifteenth nless I misread?

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
Is that drive with your recollection?

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Yes, it would have been around that time.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Okay? Now was your hair to your recollection substantially similar
to this in June? Early June? I guess about two
weeks later when you rent a car for mister Cornwall.

Speaker 6 (01:10:54):
Yep, now, miss area, after you wrapped as a car, I.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
Guess we should clarify what kind of car did you
wind up with?

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
I believe I wound up with a Ford focus, and.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
I'm guessing it wasn't red.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
No, it was white.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
And once you have this white Ford focus, where do
you go?

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
I went back to my brother's house when my car
was parked, and it took a nap.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
Do you remember about what time of day this was
when you well, after you took a nap, do you
remember about what time of day it was when you
got on the road.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Late morning? I think?

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
And on this trip as you left read in California,
did you have a gun with you?

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
Did you have a knife with you?

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:12:01):
Do you have a cell phone with you?

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
This helio that we've seen earlier, yes? And did you
have a charger with you?

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
I did?

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
Okay, So tell us what happens next year? If you've
got your car, you've taken a nap, what do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
I hit the road Interstate five South. I forgot. I
was supposed to. I was supposed to meet guys serously
and San Jose as well, if the time permitted. But
I was very tired. I'd stayed up all night talking
with Travis, so I didn't make it to see us.
I pulled over somewhere I think it was just in
one of the little towns south of Sacramento, or just north.

(01:12:49):
I think it was in Corning. And I slept for
a while in a McDonald's parking lot, and then I
woke up in the afternoon and got back on the
road and kept driving until I reached was to go
to Monterey, but Matt was in Santa Cruz, so he said,
meet me in Santa Cruz. So I went to Santa Cruz.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
Okay, And where's Santa Cruz relative to Monterey?

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
It is sits on the north part of the Bay area.
I mean, not the Bay area, the Monterey Bay.

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
Okay, so close to Monterey then.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
It's pretty close.

Speaker 3 (01:13:19):
Okay. You mentioned that you spoke with Travis. This would
have been on the night of the first Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
Yes, Actually it was into the early morning.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
Of the second, Okay. And without telling us exactly what
was said? What was the subject matter of that conversation, What.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Really stands out as we talked a lot about Gordon Hinckley,
he was a former president of the church who had
passed away.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Did that conversation lead to any phone set No, did,
to your understanding, or did you ever convey to mister
Alexander that you were going to see Matt and going
on this trip to Monterey.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
He knew I was going on the trip, Yes, And
I don't know if I told him about Matt or not.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
Okay, when you had an when you had this conversation
with him about Gordon Hinckley, did you advise him that
you were in the midst of this trip or that
you were on your way to Monterey?

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
He knew I was on my way to Utah? Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
Was Monterey one of those the fact that you were
going to Monterey one of those things that you wanted
to keep a secret from him? Or did it just
not come up?

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
No? I mean no, not a secret. I don't remember
if it came up or not. He knew I was
going to get head south first and then cut up
through Nobada and go to Utah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
Okay. So you did you meet Matt? Yes, and his
friend what's that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
And his friend? Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:15:16):
And do you remember about the time of day that
you arrived in Santa Cruz.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
It was evening and it was dark, not too late
because there were still restaurants and bars open.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
So what did you do when you were where did
you meet Matt.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
And Israel to my recollection, it's a kind of a
bar and lounge restaurant called the Red Room.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
Okay, And what did you do with the Red Room?

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
We sat around, had appetizers, and then we headed to
a carry.

Speaker 3 (01:15:56):
Was just so we're clear, was the purpose is this? Completely?
So sure? Was there any romantic interest in Matt at
that point in time?

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
No, there hadn't been any romantic interests for years and years.
At that point, we were just friends.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
Because you broke up with mister McCartney in what year,
two thousand and one? Okay, so seven years later you're
still friends with mister McCartney, right, yes, okay, So after
you go to the karaoke bar, where do you what
do you do next?

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
At that point I follow him and his friend back to.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
His apartment in Monterrey, his being who Maths or his friends.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
It was an apartment. It was his friend's parents' house.
They lived in one portion of it, and there was
an apartment kind of sectioned off that being experimented.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
Do you spend the night there?

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:16:58):
We saw earlier in this trial some banking transactions that
you engaged in it at Washington Mutual. Do you remember seeing.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
Those, Yes, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
And one of the things that became clear. Does it
looked like, and maybe you can explain it to us,
it looked like you had more than one bank account
with him. Is that accurate?

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
That's correct?

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
Okay, can you explain that to us.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
Yes. After moving to Arica, I opened a business checking
account in addition to my personal checking account that I
already had for over a year.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
Okay. So these checks that you were writing back and forth,
what was the purpose of you doing that in Monterey?

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
Oh? In Monterey? Well, I I didn't do it in
Marika because when I left town it was way too early,
the banks weren't Oh. And I didn't do it in
Reading because I didn't live in Reading, so I didn't
know where there would be a Washington mutual. I lived
in Monterey for over a years, so I knew where
the banks were there because I banked there and in
Carmel while I lived there.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
Okay, So what was the purpose of you know, we
saw the receipts and the checks. What was the purpose
of moving the money back and forth between accounts?

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
My business made no money, so I sort of borrowed
money from myself for my business and So by doing that,
I wrote myself a check and put money into the
account so that I could use that money while traveling,
because part of the reason that I was going to
LA was for the photography, so I would be able
to write off part of that trip. And part of
the reason I was going to see Ryan was also

(01:18:50):
for prepaid label, so I could write off part of
that trip as well. And my tax, my business tax
write offs I was trying to keep in that account
to keep it organized.

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
Okay, So you could have just put cash out of
the bank too.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
Right, I could have.

Speaker 3 (01:19:05):
Yes, based on the receipts we saw on those sort
of things, you had several hundred dollars at least between
those two accounts, Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
I guess it was hundred thousand. I don't think there's
too much.

Speaker 3 (01:19:20):
All right, In terms of payment payment for anything you
might need. How are you intending to pay for the
things that you might need along this tread meaning cash

(01:19:42):
meaning check meaning debit card?

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
What was the plan cash or debit not check?

Speaker 4 (01:19:47):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
And how much cash did you keep with you typically.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
Just for emergency purposes? Over one hundred not a whole lot.
I think maybe when sixty eighty. I don't know, it
was close to a hundred, okay something.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
After you spend this time was with mister McCartney. Do
you visit anyone else in Monterey?

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Yes? The next morning I swung by Daryl's apartment in
Pacific Grove, which is right next to Monroe, and hung
out with him and Jack for a little while.

Speaker 3 (01:20:27):
And just in case he'mon's forgotten, who is Jack to Daryl?

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Jack is his only son.

Speaker 3 (01:20:36):
So do you recall you said you had breakfast with them?
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
Yes? We had omelets okay?

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
And how long did you spend with Jack and Deryl
that morning?

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
Oh? It's a half hour. We were just hanging out.
Jack was getting ready to go to school, and we
were just enjoying each other's company.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
Okay, And this would have been Do you remember what
day this was? The morning third of the morning of
the second.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
I think it was the morning of the third.

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):
Did you borrow anything from mister Brewer while you were there?

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
Uh? Yes, I borrowed his gas cans?

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
And how many gas cants did you borrow from?

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
Two?

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
Why did you borrow two gas cans from mister Brewer?

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
So that I could well guess in Yrika at that
time was four seventy eight a gallon for regular and leaden.
This is two thousand and eight. It's very expensive. All
gas in California is a little more expensive because they
have stricter regulations, so going to Nevada and Utah would
have been cheaper, so I wanted to fill it up.

Speaker 3 (01:21:57):
You didn't tell him keep this a secret? No, mkay?
When you were having breakfast with Daryl and Jack, do
you remember telling Darryl that you were gonna go to Mesa?

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
I had no plans to go to Mesa at that point,
so no, I I wouldn't have told him that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:18):
Okay, m after this, uh, after you were gonna leave,
Uh Darryl's home or apartment? Excuse me? Where were you
planning on going?

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
Next to Salinas?

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
And what was in Salinas?

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
I wanted to get my nails done so they looked
good cause it's gonna go see Ryan.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
Okay? Did you end up going to Salinas?

Speaker 2 (01:22:46):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:22:47):
And where is Selena's relative to these these other towns?
Is this a nearby town.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
Or Selena's is probably I think twenty something miles from Monterey.
It's not far.

Speaker 3 (01:23:03):
Okay, us North south east to west.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
It is east. It would have put me on a
better highway too to go south.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
It would have taken me to Highway one to one too,
because Monterey is Highway one, and for traveling distances, you
don't want to do Highway one.

Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
Well, let me ask you this before we get onto
what happened in Salinas?

Speaker 6 (01:23:29):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
What was assuming Salinas was in the ultimate destination? Were
supplanning to go to Salinas and then straight to Utah?
Were you going to go somewhere else after Selenas?

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
I went to Salinas, had to wait because there was
a way at the nail salon, got my nails done,
and then trove to Pasadena.

Speaker 3 (01:23:53):
Okay, So Pasadena was the ultimate destination for you that day, right,
or at least it's one of your next next stops
that area.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
I was looking. I was going looking to hook up
with Darryl's sister because she just had a baby and
I was trying to add infants to my portfolio.

Speaker 3 (01:24:19):
You mentioned being in Salinas and having to wait. Did
the nail salon? Did you go anywhere else while you
were in Salinas?

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
I think I did, but it escapes me right now. Okay, Sorry,
I didn't sleep last night. My memories shot. Sure no stand.

Speaker 1 (01:24:38):
Yes response the strict and the jury is order to
disregard the letter.

Speaker 3 (01:24:44):
Did you wind up meeting with Darryl's sister?

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:24:53):
Why not? What happened?

Speaker 2 (01:24:57):
She didn't return my calls. It was something we intentatively
planned and she never returned my calls. She did, but
it was the next day, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
And when you were calling her, was this from Salinas
or you were in Pasadena? Where were you when you're
calling her?

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
I think I called her once the day before I
left way Rica to remind her that I was coming down,
and then again as I got closer to southern California,
and then again when I was in Pasadena.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
I think now we're referring to as Darrell's sister. What's
her name, Laura? Okay, So you'd make attempts to call Laura,
you don't. You don't succeed in making contact with her,
at least that day. What do you do? What happens next?

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
At that point, I was going to just hit the
road and drive up to toward Utah, probably crash somewhere
in between.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
Okay. You mentioned earlier that there was a possibility that
you were going to go to San Diego. What happened there?
Is there a reason did you end up going to
San Diego? No?

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
San Diego was out at that point.

Speaker 3 (01:26:18):
Why it got late?

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
And sometimes I try to cram more things in that
is realistic in my trip, thinking I can just do
it because I've done road trips all my life, and
I just figured pack cramore in and San Diego wasn't
feasible because it was much farther down.

Speaker 3 (01:26:34):
Okay, So you're in Pasadena and you decide the next
step and your journey is to start going to Utah?
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
That's right?

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
Okay, So what do you do in Pasadena to prepare
for going to Utah? I?

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
Well, I went to Starbuck's. I went to I think
it was Arco, say a cheaper gas. I filled up
the tank and I filled up the gas cans.

Speaker 3 (01:27:07):
Also, you said you went to Starbucks. Uh, did anything
of note happen at Starbucks when you were in Pasadena?

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:27:19):
What was that described it for?

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
I went in. There was a big way, it was
a long line. It's kind of a busy Starbucks. I
got a strawberry Frappucino, And as I was walking back
out to my vehicle, I noticed some skaters hanging around
near there, and they were all skating off kind of
laughing as I was walking toward my car.

Speaker 3 (01:27:39):
Did you see any damage to your car?

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
So at this point in time, you have your car
full of gas. You have your gas counts full of gas, right, yes, okay?
And the plan is to go to Utah? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:28:01):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
And is this we heard testimony earlier that you had
called mister Burns and told him you were on your
way to Utah?

Speaker 4 (01:28:15):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:28:15):
Do you would call that yes, right before I got
him on the freeway.

Speaker 4 (01:28:18):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:28:23):
Was it your intent at that point in time to
go to Utah?

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
Yes? Maybe Dead Valley first, but in that direction?

Speaker 3 (01:28:38):
Did you go directly to Utah? Offter you talk to
mister Burns?

Speaker 2 (01:28:42):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:28:45):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
I had been talking to Travis intermittently throughout that time
and the week's prior. When you discovered that I was
going to Utah, you started saying why you went to Utah?
Where are you when you Utah? When you're going there?
This summer stayed?

Speaker 3 (01:29:07):
Was mister Alexander questioning why you were going to Utah. Yes,
was it your understanding that he didn't want you to
go to Utah?

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
I don't know. I know he wanted to go somewhere else,
but I don't know if not Utah. I don't know
how he felt about that.

Speaker 3 (01:29:28):
What's that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
I know he wanted me to go see him, but
I don't know that he was I don't know how
he felt about Utah except that he was suspicious of it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:39):
Okay, you felt as if he was suspicious of Utah
and he wanted you to come see him. Yeah, And
you say, these are conversations you'd been having periodically, uh,
throughout the course of these days on your vacation. Is

(01:30:00):
that right?

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
Prior to the road trip and Duram and what during?

Speaker 3 (01:30:07):
Okay, did you speak on a daily basis during the
road trip?

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
We spoke on the second and the third. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:30:21):
So going back to what we were talking about earlier,
You've got the car full of gas and the gas cans.
You're going to Utah. You tell Ryan you're going to Utah.
Why do you not go straight to Utah?

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
The very last time I called Travis, it was kind
of like, I don't know how to describe it. He
had been He had been very sweet. He had been
guilting me, kind of making me feel bad that I
was taking this big trip and that I wasn't going
to see him, And we had been trying to hook
up and he had kept getting but he kept being busy,

(01:31:01):
so he had to postpone his plans to come to
northern California since I was driving south. He wanted me
to come to Mesa. I told him no the first
few times. During one conversation he became angry. During the
others he stayed calm, but he got He has this
way of talking in this really sweet voice, kind of
like baby talk, and making me feel guilty, and he

(01:31:22):
sounded very sweet, and so when I called him one
more time, it was just like, all right, I'm going.

Speaker 3 (01:31:29):
So I went, okay, did you ever call Ryan Burns
to say I'm not going to be up there, I'm
going to be laid anything of that nature.

Speaker 2 (01:31:41):
Prior to calling Prior to calling Travis and deciding to
go to Mesa, I called Ryan and let him know
that my phone was dying. So I wanted to turn
off the jew the battery to preserve the Jews, turn
off the phone to preserve the battery and he said
that's fine. So that was I had started to turn

(01:32:01):
my phone off. Then I called Travis more time.

Speaker 3 (01:32:05):
Did she tell her? What did you do? After you
called mister Burns?

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
I started to look for the freeway and as I
was calling Travis.

Speaker 3 (01:32:18):
Did you during the last conversation phone conversation with mister
Alexander and Pasadena, did you advise him that you were
coming to Mesa.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
That final phone call?

Speaker 3 (01:32:30):
I did, yes, And we had talked earlier when you
left reading California that with the rental car, that you
had a car charger with you when you when you

(01:32:50):
started off to Monterey. Was that car charger not with
you when you were in Pasadena?

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
I couldn't find it. I called Matt to see if
I'd left it at his house. He didn't answer. I
called Darryl to see anything if I brought it there,
if there was one there. He didn't answer.

Speaker 3 (01:33:09):
Okay, so you couldn't find it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
I couldn't find it, and my battery was getting low.
I didn't want to be without cell phone service or
gas in the middle of nowhere, driving across the desert
in Nevada.

Speaker 3 (01:33:23):
Okay, when you left Pasadena for mister Alexander's home in Masa.
Did you have a gun with you?

Speaker 2 (01:33:37):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:33:39):
Did you have a knife with you?

Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:33:44):
What color was your hair?

Speaker 2 (01:33:47):
Kind of like an auburn brown, I'd say.

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
Didn't stop to diet along the way? What time in
the evening to your recollection? Did you advise mister Alexander
that you were going to come to Mason?

Speaker 2 (01:34:12):
What time in the evening? Oh, I don't remember precisely,
but it would have been somewhere after eight and somewhere
before ten pm.

Speaker 3 (01:34:25):
Based on your conversation with him. Did you have the
understanding that he would be expecting you sometime that night
or the next morning.

Speaker 2 (01:34:42):
Yes, he said he would wait up.

Speaker 3 (01:34:46):
And how long a drive You told us earlier that
you'd driven out to Travis's home before. Do you know
how long a drive it is from Pasadena to Mesa.

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
I estimated it to be about six hours, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:35:12):
And this vehicle you were using, do you recall how
far you were getting on a on a tank of gas?

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
No, but it seemed to go really fast by the
way I was driving, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:35:27):
Between Pasadena and Mesa. Did you need to stop for gas?

Speaker 2 (01:35:36):
Yes? Okay a few times?

Speaker 3 (01:35:39):
And did you buy gas or did you use the gas?
It was in your hands?

Speaker 2 (01:35:43):
No, I bought gas.

Speaker 3 (01:35:46):
And how did you buy gas?

Speaker 2 (01:35:49):
I bought gas. I had to stop at Desert Center.
I bought gas there, and then I had to stop
again Buckeye and I got gas there I think at
the show.

Speaker 3 (01:35:58):
And how did you pay for that gas?

Speaker 6 (01:36:00):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:36:01):
I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (01:36:02):
I mean, okay, so you stopped for gas twice? Yeah, okay,
So tell us. Do you remember about what time you
arrived in Mesa?

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
It was still dark, but it was early morning, maybe
around four ish.

Speaker 3 (01:36:29):
And is this on the fourth of June two thousand
and eight. Yes, when you pull up did you did
you go to mister Alexander's home?

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
Yes? I did.

Speaker 3 (01:36:47):
When you pulled up to mister Alexander's house, where did
you park your around car?

Speaker 2 (01:36:52):
I parked it in the same spot I always parked
the car when I went to his house, which was
the center spot in the driveway.

Speaker 3 (01:37:01):
Do you recall there being other cars in the driveway?

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):
I don't remember specifically. I wasn't really paying attention to that.

Speaker 3 (01:37:15):
When you pull up to the house, what do you
do next?

Speaker 2 (01:37:20):
Well, it was that time of the night, so I
went around to the side into the side entrance, like
I always went into the backyard, into the garage and
through the liner room and then into the house.

Speaker 3 (01:37:30):
Okay, did you have any luggage with you?

Speaker 2 (01:37:36):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:37:38):
And what did that consist of?

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
I had brought a suitcase at backpack, my purse and
my laptop.

Speaker 3 (01:37:47):
And you say suitcase? Is this a big suitcase a
small bag? What did you have with you?

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
It's a suitcase, but it's like a carry on size.
It's not really big. Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:38:00):
And into the home. Did you bring this these items
with you or did you leave them in the car.
Initially I think.

Speaker 2 (01:38:12):
He came out and got them for me, so I
just went inside.

Speaker 3 (01:38:16):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (01:38:17):
I just went inside?

Speaker 1 (01:38:18):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:38:23):
When you arrived in mister Alexander's home, did you have
a gun with you?

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:38:30):
Did you have a knife with you?

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:38:35):
You were just telling us. You said you walked in
the house through a side gate. Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
Yes? The backyard.

Speaker 4 (01:38:49):
Was that.

Speaker 3 (01:38:51):
Typically a typical of how you would enter the home?

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
Only at night? Because he locked the front door. I
mean I had a key, but I didn't have one
this time because after moving back to Arica, I took
it off my carring.

Speaker 3 (01:39:01):
Okay, why wouldn't you just knock on the front door.

Speaker 2 (01:39:10):
I had always just come and gone without knocking, so
especially when I was expected, I don't know, it was
just easier to just walk in.

Speaker 3 (01:39:20):
All right? And what was did you have a screecher
at the door?

Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:39:32):
Describe for us what happened when you ended the home.

Speaker 2 (01:39:38):
I came into the house and after leaving the laundry room,
you go left and his office is right, is on
the right, So the light was on and the door
was open, so I peeped in there, assuming he was
in there, and he was.

Speaker 3 (01:39:54):
What was he doing?

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
He had his back to me and he was on
his lap talk watching music videos or something on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (01:40:05):
Did he see you? Initially?

Speaker 2 (01:40:07):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
You were still expected in Utah about what eleven that
following morning.

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
I didn't name a specific time, just sometime Wednesday. I
was my goal.

Speaker 3 (01:40:21):
Well, when you talk to Ryan Burns, he just told
him about twelve hours, Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
I didn't know how long it would take to drive
to West Jordan, or if I would even stop on
the way to see another place on the list.

Speaker 3 (01:40:35):
You got to mister Alexander's home. He's in the office.
You say, watching YouTube videos right, yes, okay? Is he
by himself?

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
No, he's with Napoleon okay, and.

Speaker 3 (01:40:49):
Napoleon is home.

Speaker 2 (01:40:51):
His dog.

Speaker 3 (01:40:55):
Saw mister Alexander on his computer, sitting in his office
with back. Did you shoot him?

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:41:03):
Stab him? No? What happened?

Speaker 2 (01:41:12):
I thought he looked cute sitting there at the computer
and he was watching really dumb videos. He was just
sitting there. So I just stood in the doorway looking
at him for a minute, and Napoleon was laying down,
so he didn't really know me notice me at first.
And then after standing there for like maybe thirty seconds
forty five seconds a minute, Napoleon noticed me and he
barked and came over and I patted him. That's when

(01:41:32):
Travis turned around and got it pat his chair and
came over to greet me.

Speaker 3 (01:41:37):
He said, silly videos. Could you describe these first? Did
you see them?

Speaker 2 (01:41:43):
Or to the best of my recollection, they were people.
They were like people, but they had boxes or something
on their heads, or foil, some kind of foil all
over their bodies and on their heads or something. I'm
trying to be best as I can.

Speaker 3 (01:42:02):
Okay, So what happens when mister Alexander sees you there.

Speaker 2 (01:42:14):
He got out of his chair and came over to
the doorway. I was inside the room now, but just
still standing by the door.

Speaker 3 (01:42:21):
Okay, telling us what he said? Does he say anything
to you?

Speaker 2 (01:42:26):
Maybe he greets me. I remember more what he did
rather than what he said.

Speaker 3 (01:42:31):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (01:42:32):
I remember more what he did rather than what he said.

Speaker 3 (01:42:34):
Okay, Well, what did he do?

Speaker 2 (01:42:36):
He had a big smile in his face, and he
kissed me on the lip.

Speaker 3 (01:42:40):
Would you describe this kiss as a romantic kiss?

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
Definitely romantic.

Speaker 3 (01:42:49):
Would it be a sexual kiss? Mm?

Speaker 2 (01:42:54):
With his body language in addition to that, maybe yeah.
But the kiss was very warm and kind of sensual,
but not overly passionate or anything.

Speaker 3 (01:43:04):
When you said it was sexual based on this body language,
what do you mean by that?

Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
He had his hands around my waist, sort of on
the top of my butt. You was pulling me into
his body.

Speaker 3 (01:43:22):
At that point in time. Did he say anything to
you that indicated he wanted to have sex?

Speaker 2 (01:43:33):
I don't recall anything specific at that moment in time.

Speaker 3 (01:43:38):
Okay, So he greets you with this kiss and this contact.
What happens next?

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
He wanted to show me more YouTube videos. So we
watched some of those for a little while, and then
we went into the living room. He had just gotten
a brand new punching bag. As i'd moved, I hadn't
seen it.

Speaker 3 (01:44:02):
Let's back, let's back up a bit. These YouTube videos
that he was showing you. You mentioned the people dancing
with boxes in their head. Was it more similar videos
or was it something different?

Speaker 2 (01:44:19):
They were similar, I don't remember all of them.

Speaker 3 (01:44:24):
And you mentioned this punching bag. Where was this located?

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
It was on the tile in the I guess it
would be called the family room or living room near
the kitchen. It's all an open floor plan.

Speaker 3 (01:44:40):
Okay, And well tell us what happens when he's showing
you this punching bag.

Speaker 2 (01:44:50):
He was really proud of it, something you had just purchased,
and he just he was punching it, showing showing off.

Speaker 3 (01:44:59):
When he punch. Did did that frighten you?

Speaker 2 (01:45:06):
I mean, I think something across the back of my mind.
But he had been very nice, so I wasn't overly
concerned about it. But he could punch it and send
it flying a few feet over across the tile and
then punched and he would follow it around the room
and he could punch it that way, and it just
kept moving and moving and moving.

Speaker 3 (01:45:23):
What do he means something in the back of.

Speaker 2 (01:45:24):
Your mind, because he's very strong.

Speaker 3 (01:45:28):
But you also said, but he'd been very nice, right,
So when you saw him hitting this bag, was there
a party that was scared.

Speaker 2 (01:45:40):
Probably a little apprehensive, But he was in a good mood,
so I brushed it off.

Speaker 3 (01:45:45):
Okay, So after he punches this bag in the in
the hallway outside the office, what happens next?

Speaker 2 (01:45:59):
We went into the kitchen, I got some water. I
wanted to go to sleep. I was exhausted from driving,
so we stayed in the kitchen a few minutes. He
seemed a little disappointed that I wanted to sleep, but
not in a bad mood or anything.

Speaker 3 (01:46:15):
Did he did it end while you were in the kitchen?
Did he indicate a desire to have sex with you?

Speaker 2 (01:46:24):
Yes, and insinuated that it wasn't direct, but it was
already applied.

Speaker 3 (01:46:34):
And you, from what you were telling us, you didn't
want to cause you were too tired.

Speaker 2 (01:46:42):
Right, No, I wanted to go to sleep.

Speaker 3 (01:46:44):
At the point in time when you're going to sleep,
you mentioned your luggage. Where are all these items? Are they?
Still in your car, they made their way into the house.

Speaker 2 (01:46:54):
Eventually they made their way into the house. I don't
remember what point, but he went and got it for me.

Speaker 3 (01:47:00):
Before you went to sleep. Yes, Okay, when you went
to sleep, where were you? Did you in Travis sleep
in the same room that night?

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:47:14):
And which room was that?

Speaker 2 (01:47:15):
His bedroom?

Speaker 3 (01:47:18):
When you were interacting with Travis when you were in
the in the home, did you ever get any indication
from him whether or not anyone else was in the.

Speaker 2 (01:47:31):
Home after we went in the bedroom. I think I
asked if his roommates were home, because it's an indication
of how quiet or how loud we have to be.

Speaker 3 (01:47:42):
Based on that. Was it your understanding that you were
the only two in the home or were you of
the understanding that his roommates might be home?

Speaker 2 (01:47:53):
There was somebody else home? And I think I don't
think all of his roommates were home.

Speaker 3 (01:47:57):
Okay, sid you remember about what time you and mister
Alexander went to sleep that morning.

Speaker 2 (01:48:11):
Summer around five five thirty. It was starting to just
get light out a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:48:19):
Do you both you said, do you sleep in his bedroom?
Did you both sleep on his bed?

Speaker 2 (01:48:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:48:27):
Do you remember who woke up first. I didn't, do
you remember about what time of the day that was.
I woke up.

Speaker 2 (01:48:46):
Around twelve twelve thirty and lay there for a while
because he was still sleeping.

Speaker 3 (01:48:51):
Okay, So, mister Alexander was sleeping in the bed next
to you, right, yes, and your bags were in the
home right in the bedroom in the bedroom. Did you
get up and grab a gun and shoot him?

Speaker 2 (01:49:09):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:49:11):
Did you grab a knife and stab him in the bed?

Speaker 2 (01:49:16):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:49:20):
What happened?

Speaker 2 (01:49:24):
I laid there for a while with Napoleon Travis sleeping,
snoring very lightly, and then he woke up around one
o'clock and we got up at that point.

Speaker 3 (01:49:38):
Okay, you say that you got up, you mean Travis
woke up. Yes, how long if you could estimate for us,
were you awake before Travis woke up?

Speaker 2 (01:49:59):
It felt like twenty or thirty minutes, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:50:04):
Apart from laying there with Napoleon, did you do anything
else in those twenty years?

Speaker 2 (01:50:08):
Thid just laid there awake, Okay. I think I went
to the bathroom.

Speaker 3 (01:50:16):
So, based on what you're telling us, if you woke
up about twelve thirty, mister Alexander would have woke up
around one in the afternoon. Is that accurate? Yeap, when
he woke up? What did you and mister.

Speaker 2 (01:50:32):
Alexander do we engaged in sec.

Speaker 3 (01:50:37):
When you say you engaged in sex? Did mister Alexander
when he woke up, did he express the desire to
have sex with you?

Speaker 2 (01:50:49):
Yes? Not immediately. He gotta brush his teeth out.

Speaker 3 (01:50:54):
When you went to may So, did you have the
expectation or were you assuming that when you went there
that part of the activity would be to have sex
with Travis?

Speaker 2 (01:51:12):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:51:15):
Why did you have that in press?

Speaker 2 (01:51:18):
Because it was just our thing at that time. It
was pretty obvious I wasn't going to go there esday
night and not do that. I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:51:28):
Why not. You weren't dating at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:51:30):
I wasn't sleeping with anybody else at that time.

Speaker 3 (01:51:33):
What do you mean by that? Because it doesn't necessarily
mean that you had to be sleeping with him, does it?

Speaker 2 (01:51:39):
No? But he was the only person I've been with
for the last two years so or almost two years,
so it still felt like.

Speaker 6 (01:51:52):
I will.

Speaker 3 (01:51:54):
Just something I was used to, something you were supposed
to do, excused to Did you feel like it was
something you were supposed to do?

Speaker 2 (01:52:07):
Yeah? I mean since i'd showed up.

Speaker 1 (01:52:13):
Ladies and gentlemen three twenty in the jury room, please
remember the admonition.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
You are excused. Thanks. Jury has left the courtroom the
series and we stand down.

Speaker 3 (01:52:29):
We are.

Speaker 1 (01:52:50):
Please be seated. The record will show the presence of
the jury, the defendant, and all council.

Speaker 2 (01:52:55):
Mister Gereman, you.

Speaker 3 (01:52:56):
May continue, Thank you, honor and serious. A few moments ago,
you were telling us about a how you when you
arrived at mister Alexander's home after four four thirty in
the morning. Uh, that you went into initially met mister

(01:53:21):
Alexander in his office. That r accurate.

Speaker 2 (01:53:25):
That's accurate.

Speaker 3 (01:53:26):
I'm gonna show you what's been marked as exhibit I
entered as exhibit number forty. Is that the office to
which you were speaking of meeting him? Yes, the door
would be to the right an exhibit thirty six is
this also? Is that also the same office?

Speaker 8 (01:53:47):
Yeah, that's from the doorway where I was seeing Okay,
so the vantage point there is from the doorway you
walking in and exhibit thirty six and mister Alexaxander was
seated with his back at the desk.

Speaker 2 (01:54:01):
Yeah, there's a desk behind this desk there's another desk,
and he was at that.

Speaker 3 (01:54:05):
Desk, and Miss Aerious, I'm gonna show you what'spin entered
as uh Exhibit number thirty three. You mentioned earlier a

(01:54:28):
punching bag, mister Alexander punched in front of you and
slid down the hallway. Is that the punching bag speaking of?

Speaker 2 (01:54:39):
Yeah, he punched it around the room, not just the hallway.

Speaker 3 (01:54:44):
Was it noisy when he did that?

Speaker 2 (01:54:46):
They made a pretty big impact?

Speaker 3 (01:54:49):
Okay? In miss Arius, before we took the break we
were speaking about, is that when you woke up from
your sleep, mister Alexander woke up, I should say that

(01:55:15):
the two of you uh had sex. Was it just
a matter of having sex? Or was there more to
it than that?

Speaker 2 (01:55:31):
What? Both? I guess it just depends on We had
sex more than once that day.

Speaker 3 (01:55:38):
Okay, Well, let's talk about you said the more to it.
What happened after he woke up and said that he
wanted to have sex? What did you do?

Speaker 2 (01:55:54):
He wanted to tie me up again. He had done
that once before and it didn't work out. So it
did work out because the rope he had was actually
like a twine. It was very scratchy and it hurt
my wrists. So he had a different rope this time.
That was a smooth rope. It was like a decorative rope.
I don't really know how to describe it. It was

(01:56:14):
green and gold.

Speaker 3 (01:56:18):
Let me ask you this in terms of description of it.
Let me show you what's been marked is energy? Excuse
me his Exhibit to sixty eight. That look like the
rope you're describing.

Speaker 2 (01:56:34):
That is part of the rope. Yes, that is yes,
I would yeah, it is okay, And.

Speaker 3 (01:56:41):
So we have advantage point on this showing you Exhibit
two sixty nine that appears to be the stairs some stairs? Correct? Yes,
did mister Alexander have more than one set of stairs
to his home? And his home just one.

Speaker 2 (01:57:02):
Set, well unless you count the steps, but just those.

Speaker 3 (01:57:06):
And where did those stairs that were saying in Exhibit
two sixty nine, where did they leave?

Speaker 2 (01:57:13):
They led upstairs to the other three bedrooms Mattville. There
were three bedrooms and plus the master and the left.

Speaker 3 (01:57:21):
So mister Alexander's bedrooms as well as the other bedrooms.
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:57:26):
Yes, His is on the left at the top of
the stairs. What's that His is on the left at
the top of the stairs.

Speaker 3 (01:57:31):
Okay, so this robe, this smooth tannish robe that we
just saw, he tied you up with it?

Speaker 2 (01:57:43):
They're correct? Ask me, oh he did he tied yet?

Speaker 3 (01:57:51):
And when you said he tied you up? Where did
he tie you up the bed? And what did he did?
He tie you up to the bed or just explain
to us what he did.

Speaker 2 (01:58:09):
No, his bed is a sleigh bed, so it doesn't
have like posts or anything to tie the rope to. Uh.
What he did is we measured out. It was a
really long rope. It was all wound up, so we
unrolled the thing it was almost from the length of
bedroom into the bathroom and he measured it out and
cut it in the bathroom, and then we He created
two nooses at the end of the rope for my

(01:58:31):
wrists and slid it behind the back headboard of the
sleigh bed so that when you pull it it's your
It's like you're tied up. But the nooses weren't so
tight that I couldn't slip out of him if I
needed to.

Speaker 3 (01:58:44):
Did you want to be tied up?

Speaker 2 (01:58:51):
It's not my favorite, but it's not unbearable.

Speaker 3 (01:58:55):
He wanted to tie you up? Yes, And they so
what you said you could bear it, right, Yeah, okay
could So when he ties you up, are you clothed
or at all? When he ties you up, is he clothed?

Speaker 2 (01:59:22):
I don't remember when his clothes came off, but no.

Speaker 3 (01:59:26):
Okay, he wasn't clothed when he tied you up.

Speaker 2 (01:59:32):
I think he might have had his garments on, but
his clothes came off.

Speaker 3 (01:59:38):
And by garments, what do you mean? Garments?

Speaker 2 (01:59:42):
The temple garments that are worn top and bottom. They're
worn by some members of the church. There weren't all
the time typically, So to.

Speaker 3 (01:59:51):
Your recollection, when he ties you up, he's wearing his sacred.

Speaker 2 (01:59:54):
Garments, right, Yes, I believe he was still dressed in those.

Speaker 3 (02:00:01):
Yes, okay, so you're naked, you're tied to the bed,
and just so we're claire as well, are your are
your legs bound or just your hands?

Speaker 2 (02:00:12):
Just my wrists?

Speaker 3 (02:00:14):
What happens next?

Speaker 2 (02:00:18):
He wanted to give me oral sex.

Speaker 3 (02:00:24):
He wanted to give you oral sex? Yes, Missius? Is
this hard for you to talk about? Approach? Are these
sexual subjects difficult for you to talk about?

Speaker 2 (02:00:42):
Yes, this one in particular, what's that happened? Yes, but
you said something else. This one in particular, why because
of how the day ended.

Speaker 3 (02:00:54):
So you say that he wanted to perform or sex
upon you. Did you allow that?

Speaker 2 (02:01:04):
Yes? Why because we were doing that consensually?

Speaker 3 (02:01:14):
Because because why.

Speaker 2 (02:01:15):
We were just we were doing that consensually.

Speaker 3 (02:01:19):
Right, I understand that. But given where you were in
your relationship, why was that okay with you? Because it
had happened before.

Speaker 2 (02:01:31):
I guess because I was still monogamous when it came
to who I was intimate with, and he was still
it was still the same person.

Speaker 3 (02:01:45):
Did you not feel like you could say no?

Speaker 2 (02:01:52):
I might have been able to, but that didn't really
cross my mind.

Speaker 3 (02:01:57):
You didn't want to encoura his wrath?

Speaker 2 (02:01:59):
Right?

Speaker 3 (02:02:01):
Were you scared of incurring his rat.

Speaker 2 (02:02:06):
I was more worried at that point about disappointing him.
He seemed very happy to see me the night before,
and and I wanted to go along with what he
wanted to do because because he was he liked those things,
and I mean typically I liked most of those things.
But that's why.

Speaker 3 (02:02:27):
Oh, so your wrists are bound and he performs oral
sex upon you. Do any other sexual acts take place
while you're tied to this bed?

Speaker 2 (02:02:45):
No? I asked him to stop because he hadn't shaved
and it was scratchy.

Speaker 3 (02:02:50):
And did he stop when you ask him? Yeah, after
he stopped performing oral sex upon you. What happened next?

Speaker 2 (02:03:04):
Uh, we ditched the rope idea because it I don't know,
it wasn't doing anything for me. I don't know about him.

Speaker 3 (02:03:10):
But before you moved too farther, you say you ditched
the rope, idea, what happened? Did you w what happened
to the rope? How did you how did you become
untied from the bed? And what happened to the rope? Well?

Speaker 2 (02:03:27):
I was able to slip my wrists right out of it,
so we just I did that. We took the rope
from behind the headboard and tossed it on the carpet
for the time.

Speaker 3 (02:03:35):
Being, on the carpet near the bed.

Speaker 2 (02:03:39):
Mm. I don't really remember. Somewhere more toward the dresser.

Speaker 3 (02:03:45):
This rope when mister Alexander was before he tied you
to the bed. I think I neglected to ask did
he have to cut this rope?

Speaker 2 (02:03:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:03:56):
Did you observe him do that? To your recollection? Where
did he do that?

Speaker 2 (02:04:03):
He cut the rope? He measured it out somehow in
the bathroom, because it was really long, and I was
holding one end in the bedroom, and he rolled it
out on the other end, and he cut the rope
in the bathroom, and then we he died me.

Speaker 3 (02:04:18):
Yet after that, you saw him cut the rope, How
did he physically? How did he cut the rope? What
did he use?

Speaker 2 (02:04:28):
He used one of the knives from his knife block
in the kids.

Speaker 3 (02:04:32):
Do you recall once he cut this rope, where he
placed this knight It.

Speaker 2 (02:04:40):
Would have either been in the bathroom or maybe he
brought it back to the knightstand.

Speaker 3 (02:04:46):
You don't recall which.

Speaker 2 (02:04:49):
I don't recall. It would have been one or the other,
but I don't recall which specifically. Okay, there are a
lot of gaps that day.

Speaker 3 (02:04:56):
I'm sorry, what was that last part?

Speaker 2 (02:04:58):
There are a lot of things that don't I don't
remember that day.

Speaker 3 (02:05:01):
Okay, moving back to the part of the story where
he unties you or you get you ditch the rope. This,
I believe you said, what happens next?

Speaker 2 (02:05:19):
At some point there are pictures that we also had
regular sex.

Speaker 3 (02:05:24):
Also, you said at some point there were pictures. Do
you recall and and was before we go to our
fresh should say. You said regular sex. What do you
mean by regular sex?

Speaker 2 (02:05:40):
Like regular vanilla sex? Like just vaginal regular sex? Okay,
nothing out of the two, out of the ordinary, just normal,
you know.

Speaker 3 (02:05:54):
Okay? Do you recall if that was before or after
the photographs that were taken?

Speaker 2 (02:06:02):
I don't recall, but I think it was after. I'm
pretty sure.

Speaker 3 (02:06:10):
I wanna show you some of those photographs. Did it
previously been admit at? Beginning with Exhibit one sixty eight?

(02:06:30):
Can you see that there as in your monitor?

Speaker 2 (02:06:33):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:06:36):
Your hair, the hair on your head? How would you
label that particular style?

Speaker 2 (02:06:46):
Braids?

Speaker 3 (02:06:47):
Why was your hair in braids that day?

Speaker 2 (02:06:53):
He liked my hair and braids?

Speaker 3 (02:06:54):
What was your understanding of why he liked your hair
and braids?

Speaker 2 (02:07:00):
He just said it was hot?

Speaker 3 (02:07:08):
Showing you exhibit one sixty four? Can you see that?
Can you look at that? Is it hard to look at? Okay?
Sixty What do you think about when you see that pictures?

(02:07:31):
Rose goes first state of mind?

Speaker 2 (02:07:38):
What a stupid? Or the other way?

Speaker 3 (02:07:41):
When you were posing for that picture, I guess you'd say,
was this something that you were comfortable doing? It?

Speaker 5 (02:07:55):
Was it felt awkward?

Speaker 3 (02:07:57):
What's that it felt awkward. Why did you do it?
Why did you participate?

Speaker 2 (02:08:05):
He got a new camera that he was excited about
and he wanted to play around with it.

Speaker 3 (02:08:11):
And playing around with it man taking his picture? What
was that nessarios, Yes, referring to the picture, it appears,
uh that there's no pubic hair in this picture? Why
he Travis.

Speaker 2 (02:08:29):
Didn't like hair. He didn't even like it on his own.

Speaker 3 (02:08:32):
Body, so you removed it at his request?

Speaker 2 (02:08:35):
Yes, I had.

Speaker 4 (02:08:39):
A sens a question.

Speaker 3 (02:08:50):
Showing you what's been entered? Does Exhibit one sixty five
and take a look at that? Was it your idea
to post for that picture? Or did Travis suggests that
that take place?

Speaker 2 (02:09:06):
He suggested all the poses.

Speaker 3 (02:09:08):
Is that something you really wanted to do?

Speaker 2 (02:09:12):
That was not my favorite part of the day. No,
I didn't want to do that, but I mean I
didn't disagree.

Speaker 3 (02:09:20):
You didn't voice any disagreement. Would that be a more
accurate way of putting it?

Speaker 2 (02:09:24):
Yees?

Speaker 3 (02:09:26):
Showing you what's been marked Exhibit one sixty nine. Is
this also a picture Travis suggested?

Speaker 2 (02:09:38):
Yep?

Speaker 3 (02:09:39):
And you complied with his suggestions?

Speaker 2 (02:09:42):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:09:45):
Would it be fair to say that he was directing
you what to do and how to pose. Yeah, and
you did this. You you posed in these positions. Well,
why did you pose in these physicians for?

Speaker 2 (02:10:01):
He asked me to That's it, That's all I took.
I'd send him pictures before on my phone, but they
weren't like those, so he was just he was being
the photographer this time.

Speaker 3 (02:10:19):
Did you ever express to him that you didn't want
to take pictures of this nature.

Speaker 2 (02:10:27):
On prior occasions? I did express that many times, but.

Speaker 3 (02:10:32):
Not this occasion.

Speaker 2 (02:10:33):
Mm mm No.

Speaker 3 (02:10:38):
Was he happy when you were allowing him to take
these photographs?

Speaker 2 (02:10:44):
He seemed he seemed a little bit thrilled.

Speaker 3 (02:10:49):
A little bit thrilled. Is that what you said?

Speaker 2 (02:10:51):
He seemed really into it. Okay, I don't know if
happy it would be the word, but he was into it.

Speaker 3 (02:10:57):
Did making him happy on June fourth, two thousand eight
make you happy?

Speaker 2 (02:11:08):
I don't know. I don't know if happy would be
the word.

Speaker 3 (02:11:14):
What was the plan with these photographs? Were they to
be capped or they'd be deleted? What was the plan?

Speaker 2 (02:11:27):
You wanted to take them, review them, and then delete them.

Speaker 3 (02:11:33):
Were a few other photographs found that day, drawing your
attention to Exhibit one sixty seven. Actually let me draw
your attention looking at in time to Exhibit one sixty six.
Can you explain what was happening when this photograph was taken.

Speaker 2 (02:11:59):
Yes, he wanted to get a picture of us having
sex without somebody holding the camera, so he told me
to put it on the timer, and I was trying
to figure out the timer and I couldn't figure it out,
and so just figure it out. It was sitting on

(02:12:23):
the nightstanding.

Speaker 3 (02:12:26):
So what you're telling us is you were trying to
set the timer and it went off inadvertently. Weren't expecting it,
I guess right. Okay, showing you Exhibit one sixty seven
looks like it's a couple of minutes later. Was this
another attempt to photograph the two of you having sex?

Speaker 2 (02:12:50):
I can't remember if we were trying to get the
timer for the photo or if we were trying to
do a video or what.

Speaker 3 (02:12:57):
Okay, you mentioned trying to do a video. Was there
contemplation of you and mister Alexander made a video that day?

Speaker 2 (02:13:16):
Yes, a video.

Speaker 5 (02:13:22):
Of what video of.

Speaker 2 (02:13:25):
Its having set?

Speaker 3 (02:13:27):
When you went to make up mister Alexander's home, did
you do so with the intent of making a sex
video with him?

Speaker 2 (02:13:43):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:13:46):
Was it your idea or mister Alexander's idea to make
this video?

Speaker 2 (02:13:55):
It was his idea.

Speaker 3 (02:13:58):
To your knowledge. Was that video ever made?

Speaker 2 (02:14:04):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:14:07):
I think he used my Olympus I'm sorry, what was
that last part?

Speaker 2 (02:14:12):
I had an Olympus camera that I'd had for a
few years. We took it on all our trips. It
had video on it. I think we ended up I
think we ended up using my camera because we couldn't
figure out the video on his or the time or something.

Speaker 3 (02:14:25):
And how do you know that that video was made?
Did you make it? Did you watch it?

Speaker 2 (02:14:32):
We reviewed it. I deleted it.

Speaker 3 (02:14:37):
You deleted it that day?

Speaker 5 (02:14:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:14:39):
After Well, we just saw the pictures where you were
attempting to take or take photographs or take a video
of you having sex. Was this video you made of
the two of you having sex? Was this directly after
the pictures we just saw, mister Alexander.

Speaker 2 (02:15:01):
I'm sorry? Will you repeat that?

Speaker 3 (02:15:03):
Sure? We just saw the pictures of mister Alexander lying
on the bed. You recall that, Yes, And you said
you were trying to make a video, uh, with his camera,
which ended up making one with your camera?

Speaker 2 (02:15:17):
Right? I think?

Speaker 3 (02:15:19):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:15:19):
I had my camera.

Speaker 3 (02:15:20):
Too, And what I was asking is did that come
directly after or minutes after the pictures we just saw?

Speaker 2 (02:15:31):
It was around the same time.

Speaker 3 (02:15:32):
Okay, so after the pictures we just saw, mister Alexander.
What you're telling us then, is that the two of
you did have sexual intercourse, right, yes.

Speaker 2 (02:15:47):
And.

Speaker 3 (02:15:49):
You described it earlier as this plain old vanilla sex.
But it was more than that, wasn't because you were
videotaping it? Right?

Speaker 2 (02:15:58):
Yeah? I guess so.

Speaker 3 (02:16:05):
So after you and mister well, let me ask you this.
The photograph show that all this occurred about one thirty
two in the afternoon on the fourth. Did you have
an understanding at that point in time whether any of

(02:16:27):
mister Alexander's roommates were.

Speaker 2 (02:16:30):
My understanding was that nobody was home during that part
of the day.

Speaker 3 (02:16:34):
I'm sorry, you're gonna have to speak up the serious.

Speaker 2 (02:16:36):
My understanding was that nobody was home during that part
of the day.

Speaker 3 (02:16:43):
So after the two of you have sex that afternoon, well,
let me let me just verify this. When you have
sex that afternoon around one where do you have sex?

Speaker 2 (02:17:03):
Honest bed?

Speaker 3 (02:17:06):
After you have sex on his bed, what do you do.

Speaker 2 (02:17:10):
Nowt I think we watched the video, then deleted it,
and then shortly thereafter I got in the show.

Speaker 3 (02:17:18):
Okay, when you're taking a shower, is mister Alexander with you?
Or do you know where he is?

Speaker 2 (02:17:27):
He's downstairs somewhere, I believe.

Speaker 3 (02:17:30):
After you take the shower. After you take a shower,
what do you do?

Speaker 2 (02:17:38):
I get dressed and starting to get ready to hit
the road.

Speaker 3 (02:17:44):
What is starting to get ready to hit the road?

Speaker 2 (02:17:46):
You mean just I don't know, just getting ready, getting dressed.

Speaker 3 (02:17:55):
Were you already packed? Did you need to pack?

Speaker 2 (02:17:59):
I hadn't really too much, just some pajamas, and then
I changed my clothes. At one point the luggage went
back in the car. I don't remember precisely when.

Speaker 3 (02:18:12):
Okay, and while you were doing this, when you're doing
the things that you needed to do to get ready
to leave, to your understanding, where was mister Allen?

Speaker 2 (02:18:27):
First in the kitchen and then he was in his office?

Speaker 3 (02:18:31):
Where was the first place?

Speaker 2 (02:18:33):
The kitchen first? And then his offer.

Speaker 3 (02:18:36):
When you left, you came downstairs and you were putting
your luggage back in your car. If you know where
was his bedding, his sheets at.

Speaker 2 (02:18:56):
That point they were in the washing machine.

Speaker 3 (02:18:59):
Do you know how they got there.

Speaker 2 (02:19:00):
I can't remember who put them in, but I probably did.

Speaker 3 (02:19:05):
Okay, And this was after the two of you had sex.

Speaker 2 (02:19:09):
It would have been after we typically washed the sheets out.

Speaker 3 (02:19:13):
So you say, you're packing your luggage or you've packed
your luggage in your car and you're getting ready to leave.
Do you remember about what time of the day that
this was and you were packing your car getting ready

(02:19:34):
to leave?

Speaker 2 (02:19:35):
I don't It was after that was after two, I'm sure,
but I don't remember the exact time.

Speaker 3 (02:19:43):
So after your car's packed and you're ready to go,
you say to your dressed do you recall what you
were wearing?

Speaker 2 (02:19:52):
No, I don't remember exactly. Think I was wearing a
tank top and some pants.

Speaker 3 (02:19:59):
So you've got your a car packed and you're ready
to leave. What happens next?

Speaker 2 (02:20:06):
I went into the office, Uh, just to chill with
him for a minute. A couple of minutes. I had
CDs that he wanted had been asking for for a while,
that I kept forgetting to give to him. They were
hanging out my briefcase for months and months.

Speaker 3 (02:20:21):
What were are these music CDs? Photo CDs? Whatever?

Speaker 2 (02:20:25):
They have pictures on them of our trips that we've
taken together.

Speaker 3 (02:20:29):
Okay, and so you're in the office and you're showing
in these or just describe for us what's going on.

Speaker 2 (02:20:40):
I got the CDs out. They looked pretty scratched, which
he noticed and got upset about because it was my
fault that they were scratched. So he tried to he
put him in his CD drive, and he was having

(02:21:01):
a hard time bringing up the disk drive on his computer.
He said, had a virus with that. He's he just
had a hard time bringing up the CD for a minute,
and he kept clicking around the screensaver when it would
go to the screensaver. There it was a bunch of
little bugs eating up his screen.

Speaker 3 (02:21:21):
Where were you when he was look I.

Speaker 2 (02:21:25):
Was laying on the floor next to his chair with naps.

Speaker 3 (02:21:29):
I'm a Napoleon, So you could see his computer screen,
but you were on the floor.

Speaker 2 (02:21:37):
Yeah, I could see it if I looked. It was
just I was just laying on the floor.

Speaker 3 (02:21:44):
So when he's looking, he's looking at these CDs, they're
not working. You're on the floor with Napoleon. What happens next?

Speaker 2 (02:21:55):
He finally gets somehow he was able to bring up
the CD on his screen and most of the images
came up as little gray squares instead of photos, and
probably because the file was well, the CD was scratched.
I assume that's why they were like that. You said,
they came up as what they were where the thumbnail

(02:22:18):
would be. It was just a like a medium to
like gray square or rectangle or whatever.

Speaker 3 (02:22:24):
Right, So just continue what happened? What was he doing?

Speaker 2 (02:22:30):
He popped that CD out and then he tried the
other one, and he's mad by now because if I
would have given them to him a long time ago,
like I was supposed to you, then they wouldn't have
been scratched. So he puts that CD in and tries
to bring it up to and the same thing happens.
There are a bunch of files that don't come up. Oh,

(02:22:54):
the images don't and they're just gray.

Speaker 3 (02:22:58):
You were saying he was getting mad without telling us
anything he said. How were you assessing that he was angry?

Speaker 2 (02:23:07):
His tone had changed, his demeanor had changed, his movements
and body language had changed.

Speaker 3 (02:23:18):
You saw at this point you saw signs of anger? Yeah, right, yes,
And based on your experience with mister Alexander, you had
seen those signs before, had did you?

Speaker 2 (02:23:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:23:39):
How were you feeling laying there on the floor watching
his anger run apprehensive? Did you get up and run
out of the room?

Speaker 2 (02:23:50):
No? I laid there for a little while and while
he was doing this, and then he opened the CD
disc and he picked it up, and he flung it
at the wall, and it ricocheted off the wall and
rolled on to the off the desk and landed on

(02:24:12):
my head and hit the.

Speaker 3 (02:24:13):
Carpetle miss Arious, warning you had a good sense of
where you were at this point in time. Showing you
again what's been marked as Exhibit thirty six, miss Arius,

(02:24:37):
Does the is the area in which you were laying?
Is that depicted in this photograph?

Speaker 2 (02:24:45):
Not really?

Speaker 3 (02:24:45):
Okay, let me show you Exhibit forty. Does that depict
the area which you were laying?

Speaker 2 (02:25:02):
It was on the other side of the desk where
the shadow is. I was laying parallel to.

Speaker 3 (02:25:07):
The wall, parallel to the wall on the other side.

Speaker 2 (02:25:14):
Yes, or on that side against that wall, sort of
against the wall. Wasn't touching the wall there?

Speaker 3 (02:25:19):
Say that wall? Could you point to what are you meaning?
Is it visible?

Speaker 2 (02:25:22):
Yes? The wall or with the outlet or whatever that
thing is.

Speaker 3 (02:25:25):
Okay, So you were laying at the near the near
the output.

Speaker 2 (02:25:30):
Yes, my head was toward more toward the desk and
my feet were toward the door.

Speaker 3 (02:25:37):
Okay, so you mentioned that he he throws this CD
that rolls around and rolls towards you. Is that right?

Speaker 2 (02:25:52):
Yes, it rolled off the desk and landed on me.

Speaker 3 (02:25:56):
Were you then seeing more signs of anger at that
point in time?

Speaker 2 (02:26:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:26:06):
Were you still apprehensive or did apprehension move to something
more when you saw these when you saw more, Yes,
it moved to more. How would you describe that feeling?

Speaker 2 (02:26:20):
I'm worried because I feel like the trip had gone
pretty well at that point, and now he's going to
get angry or I've done something stupid again and he
like the whole trip was going to get ruined. And
also I know he's getting angry because Napoleon got up
and left the room and he always leaves the room
when Travis gets mad.

Speaker 3 (02:26:40):
What do you mean by the whole You said you
made a comment that the whole trip would be ruined.
What do you mean by that?

Speaker 2 (02:26:47):
It was supposed to just be a fun trip for
us to hang out, kind of like old times, just
get along, just relax, and everything was going fine, and
then the CDs were scratched.

Speaker 3 (02:27:05):
Okay, so the CD r rolls near you. Are you
at this point in time fearing that he's gonna be
physically aggressively.

Speaker 2 (02:27:22):
I don't know that I was consciously thinking of that,
but I remember just being a little more tense.

Speaker 3 (02:27:27):
After this CD rolls by you. What happened next?

Speaker 2 (02:27:37):
I stood up and I went to walk over to
him to rub his back or something, just to make
sure he was okay, and let him know that I
still had the pictures on my other drive, my ACoM
data drive, but I couldn't access them because that drive
was not working at that time, but they were still

(02:27:57):
there as soon and that I would get them for
and and I just I was gonna apologize. And he
had stood up, and the chair got pushed to the side,
and he spun you around and let me over the
desk and pressed up against me.

Speaker 3 (02:28:16):
Let's talk about that a little bit, showing you again
what's been marches Exhibit forty. Can you see this area
here where my fingers punny?

Speaker 2 (02:28:33):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:28:35):
Is that his chair?

Speaker 2 (02:28:36):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:28:37):
Okay? So when you said, and I know there's various
desks in his office, but when you said you went
around his desk were we're talking about this item here?

Speaker 2 (02:28:52):
Yes, I was on the other side, okay.

Speaker 3 (02:28:57):
And you said he grabbed you, Yes, where did he grab.

Speaker 2 (02:29:04):
You on the upper arms? Or and he spun me
around and then grabbed my right arm?

Speaker 3 (02:29:12):
Okay? Well let me he did he grab both your arms?

Speaker 2 (02:29:17):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:29:18):
Okay, at the time he grabbed both your arms. Could
you see his face yes? Did you see anger in
his eyes.

Speaker 2 (02:29:34):
Going to hit I wasn't thinking of that. He'd only
done that one time, so I was scared he was
gonna throw me or something he'd done before.

Speaker 3 (02:29:44):
So you say he grabbed your arm and spun you around, right, Yes,
spun you around where.

Speaker 2 (02:30:00):
Right by on the desk, point to it. We were
standing right about here, kay, Now, I.

Speaker 3 (02:30:08):
Wanna I wanna clarify something because you said he had
only hit you one time at that point, but earlier
we heard about him smacking you in the face and
him kicking you right right. When you say he only
hits you one time, but then, what are you what

(02:30:30):
are you referring to his hands, oh, his hand, to
your face, to your body?

Speaker 2 (02:30:38):
Is that what you're saying to my body? He didn't
hit me in the face.

Speaker 3 (02:30:43):
Okay, just in the side of the cheek, right.

Speaker 2 (02:30:48):
Near the face, near the face.

Speaker 3 (02:30:50):
Okay, alright, So he grabs you, he has a hold
of you, and then here you said, he grabs your arm,
pointing your arms and spins your round.

Speaker 2 (02:31:06):
But he grabbed both of my arms, spun you around,
and then grabbed my right arm and twisted it behind
my back.

Speaker 3 (02:31:14):
When you say behind your back, was he was? Did
it hurt?

Speaker 2 (02:31:21):
I don't remember feeling pain.

Speaker 3 (02:31:25):
Did you feel like you could have just walked away?

Speaker 2 (02:31:32):
Not in that particular moment, No, why not. He was
leaning his whole body against me, and he was kind
of heavy, he was.

Speaker 3 (02:31:43):
Wet, kind of heavy. Did you say anything, tell him
to stop, knock it off?

Speaker 2 (02:31:48):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:31:50):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (02:31:57):
I didn't want to make him even more pissed off.

Speaker 5 (02:32:00):
He was.

Speaker 3 (02:32:02):
So objecting. Your feeling at that time, was objecting to
what he was doing to you, would have pissed him
off further.

Speaker 2 (02:32:11):
It was possible. Usually when I went along with what
he did, he would settle down faster.

Speaker 3 (02:32:16):
Going along with what he did what he wanted to do,
calmed him down. Is that what you're telling us?

Speaker 2 (02:32:24):
Yeah? That or groveling or something he would Okay, he
would get less angry s quicker.

Speaker 3 (02:32:31):
Okay, Well, based based on what he did, I guess
we can define what he wanted to do. What did
he do when he had your arm behind your back?

Speaker 2 (02:32:48):
He pressed his groin up against my butt.

Speaker 3 (02:32:50):
Were you facing in the direction this desk or against
the desk in the back wall when.

Speaker 2 (02:32:56):
He did this, I was facing the f way you pointed.

Speaker 3 (02:33:01):
Okay, you were facing the desk.

Speaker 2 (02:33:04):
Yeah, I was bent over the other side of the desk,
facing that way.

Speaker 3 (02:33:07):
Okay. So you were bent over this side of the desk, right, yes, okay?
And you said his groin area was pressed up against
your buddets right, yes? Were you wearing clothes?

Speaker 2 (02:33:20):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:33:23):
Was he wearing clothes?

Speaker 6 (02:33:25):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:33:25):
You mentioned that you were bent over this desk. How
did that happen? Did he push you down or what?
How did you get into that position?

Speaker 2 (02:33:35):
Yeah? He had my right arm and bent me over. Okay.

Speaker 3 (02:33:42):
Was he saying anything to you? Was he telling you
to do a particular thing?

Speaker 2 (02:33:48):
I don't recall him saying I don't recall what he
said if he said anything.

Speaker 3 (02:33:55):
Okay, So when you're in this position, what happens next?

Speaker 2 (02:34:04):
Well, he kind of does. If you thrust briefly, and
then he starts pulling my pants down.

Speaker 3 (02:34:10):
What was the first part of your answer.

Speaker 2 (02:34:12):
He thrust it a few times and then started pulling
my pants down.

Speaker 3 (02:34:16):
Thrust it a few times, right, What do you mean
by thrusting?

Speaker 2 (02:34:23):
He pressed his groin against.

Speaker 3 (02:34:25):
Me okay, against your buttocks? Yes, based on that movement.
Did you believe that he wanted to have sex with
you again?

Speaker 2 (02:34:42):
Yes, I could feel that in direction.

Speaker 3 (02:34:46):
At that point in time. Did you want to have
sex with mister Alexander?

Speaker 2 (02:34:54):
Well, yeah, actually I did, cause it was better than
getting mad.

Speaker 3 (02:34:58):
Was actually relieved, relieved, and it was better than him
being mad. What do you mean by that?

Speaker 2 (02:35:08):
Because typically when he had sex, it was his way
of distressing, to use his term, and then he was
calmed down after that.

Speaker 3 (02:35:22):
What was you said? You were relieved to find out
that he just wanted sex in your mind? What was
the more damning alternative? What was the more concerning alternative
to just having sex?

Speaker 2 (02:35:42):
I didn't want his anger to escalate to the levels
that it had in the past. What do you mean
by levels it had in the past, his temper, his outbursts.

Speaker 3 (02:35:53):
By outversts, do you mean physical.

Speaker 2 (02:35:55):
Outbursts, physical or just screaming either.

Speaker 3 (02:35:59):
So submit to this sexual intercourse as an alternative to
his wrath or anger?

Speaker 6 (02:36:09):
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (02:36:13):
That would be accurate.

Speaker 3 (02:36:14):
Yeah, So after he thrusts against you, based on when
you've told this before, you don't say no, don't.

Speaker 2 (02:36:25):
Do this right? No, I didn't object.

Speaker 3 (02:36:27):
Okay, what did he then do?

Speaker 2 (02:36:33):
Well? You got sex again?

Speaker 3 (02:36:35):
Did he remove your pants? Did you remove your pants?

Speaker 2 (02:36:38):
He just got him down, like just passed my butt?
I had, I don't know, I didn't have like jeans
or anything on.

Speaker 3 (02:36:46):
Okay? Does he ejaculate?

Speaker 2 (02:36:49):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:36:50):
Where on my back?

Speaker 2 (02:36:54):
My lower back?

Speaker 3 (02:36:56):
What's that on my lower back? Were you you mentioned
him distressing through this process? Did that then relieve you
to some degree? Thinking that this was over what was

(02:37:21):
over his anger?

Speaker 2 (02:37:23):
Yes? It was very relieved. I felt like we avoided catastrophe.

Speaker 3 (02:37:31):
Catastrophe being what.

Speaker 2 (02:37:34):
Just it leading to another fight.

Speaker 3 (02:37:37):
So your mindset on June fourth, two thousand and eight,
was anything to avoid a fight? Is that what you're
telling us?

Speaker 2 (02:37:52):
Yeah, in that moment, yet you.

Speaker 3 (02:37:53):
Weren't able to avoid to fight the rest of that day?
Were you? Is that a yes? Fair note?

Speaker 2 (02:38:01):
No? I mean no, I was not able to avoid it.

Speaker 3 (02:38:04):
Okay, after he ejaculates on your back. Apart from feeling relieved,
do you feel used? Humiliated?

Speaker 2 (02:38:18):
I felt a little bit used when he said go
clean yourself up, but I didn't really dwell on that
very much.

Speaker 3 (02:38:26):
What did you do after that?

Speaker 2 (02:38:30):
I stayed in the bathroom for a few minutes. He
was still in his office doing whatever he was.

Speaker 3 (02:38:37):
Doing the bathroom. Just to clarify, we talked earlier in
this tid there was a bathroom upstairs? Did he have
more than one bathroom?

Speaker 2 (02:38:45):
There were three bathrooms in the house.

Speaker 3 (02:38:48):
Which bathroom were you in? One upstairs or one downstairs?

Speaker 2 (02:38:52):
Downstairs right across from his office.

Speaker 3 (02:38:54):
Okay, when you were cleaning yourself up, could you hear
him in his office or describe for us.

Speaker 2 (02:39:06):
What you No, I had shut the door.

Speaker 3 (02:39:12):
I'm sorry, Just just to make sure everybody heard this.
Did you hear mister Alexander while he was in his
office when you're in the bathroom?

Speaker 2 (02:39:23):
No, I don't remember. Okay, I don't recall hearing him.

Speaker 3 (02:39:28):
Okay, sorry. When you shut the door and cleaned yourself off,
was it then your plan to leave?

Speaker 2 (02:39:43):
I was gonna say goodbye to him eventually, but we
were still kind of hanging out. Now that he was
in a better mood, I wanted to say goodbye in
a nice way. So I went back in the office
and we hung out for a few minutes, and then
we decided to go upstairs pictures.

Speaker 3 (02:40:01):
Well, let me ask you a question this desk moments
before you cleaned yourself up and you went back in
the office to talk to him, he had just bent
you over the desk and ejaculated on your back. I
haven't finished my question. Were you angry when he did that?

(02:40:29):
At this point in time? Were you angry?

Speaker 2 (02:40:31):
No, I wasn't angry.

Speaker 3 (02:40:34):
Your hope You said earlier that you wanted to end
wanted to visit to end on a positive note, right, yes,
And this is what you say when you went back
into the office to talk to him. Was it your

(02:40:58):
desire to end this trip on a happy note approach?
After this so called sex took place and you cleaned
yourself up, to you state your question after he bends

(02:41:24):
you over the desk and ejaculates on your back, you're
still looking to end this trip on a good note.

Speaker 5 (02:41:30):
Right right after he did that, asked an answer.

Speaker 2 (02:41:36):
I just just clarify your question.

Speaker 3 (02:41:41):
After he bends you over, ejaculates on your back. You
go to the bathroom to clean up. You're still looking
for a way to end the trip on a good note,
aren't you.

Speaker 2 (02:41:56):
Sustained?

Speaker 3 (02:41:57):
Are you looking for a way to end this trip
on a positive note despite all of what he had
just put you through?

Speaker 2 (02:42:07):
Sustained?

Speaker 3 (02:42:10):
What are you hoping to accomplish by going in the
office after he's done this to you?

Speaker 2 (02:42:16):
I wanted us to part ways on a positive note?

Speaker 3 (02:42:21):
What did that mean to you?

Speaker 2 (02:42:25):
It meant him leaving not angry, and me leaving not crying.

Speaker 3 (02:42:31):
Were you crying?

Speaker 1 (02:42:35):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:42:36):
Not. At that point in the day.

Speaker 3 (02:42:40):
When you went back into the office to talk to him,
was he angry?

Speaker 2 (02:42:51):
He was a lot calmer. He wasn't angry anymore.

Speaker 3 (02:42:54):
Okay, did you leave then?

Speaker 2 (02:42:58):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:43:00):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (02:43:01):
We decided to go upstairs and take pictures more pictures.

Speaker 3 (02:43:06):
You say, we decided? How did that come to pass?
Was that something he wanted to do or something he
wanted to do?

Speaker 2 (02:43:17):
It's something that goes back several months.

Speaker 3 (02:43:21):
Okay, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 (02:43:24):
Well?

Speaker 2 (02:43:24):
He The Cancuon trip was announced in two thousand and seven,
I think right before I broke up with him, and
so he assumed he was going to win this trip,
and so he was getting in shape. He had about
this thing around Christmas time called the body bug, where
he measured all his calories and all the calories he

(02:43:47):
took in and all the calories he burned, so that
it was just simple plus and minus math so that
he could lose weight. And then I think it was
in February or March that he received maybe it was
April that he received confirmation that he was going to Kancon,
and so he beefed up his work out even more
so that he could shed a few more pounds. The

(02:44:09):
prior summer he was almost two forty and so he
had lost a lot of weight and he was down
to like little over two hundred and most of it
he had gotten a lot of muscle and lost a
lot of body fat. So he was very proud of
his shape. He his goal was to have a six pack.

(02:44:29):
He wasn't quite there, but he was close, and when
he got to that point, he wanted photos taken of
what he had accomplished. So since can Kuhn was very close,
he had almost completely sculpted his body the way he
wanted it. Wasn't quite to where he would have preferred,
but it was very close.

Speaker 3 (02:44:48):
Let me let me interrupt you for a minute, because
you said a couple of things of note. You said
that Cancun's trap was announced in two thousand seven.

Speaker 2 (02:44:57):
Yes, in June two thousand seven.

Speaker 3 (02:44:59):
Okay, were you ever scheduled to accompany him on this
trip to Cancu.

Speaker 2 (02:45:09):
No.

Speaker 3 (02:45:12):
When you drove from Pasadena to May, said to mister
Alexander's home, were you under the impression did you know
whom he was going with?

Speaker 6 (02:45:25):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:45:25):
I was under the impression that he was taking his
friend's babysitter. He owed them two thousand dollars or coughed
a thousand, and they said, if you take our babysitter,
we'll call it debt, even if you give a ticket
to her. That's what he told me.

Speaker 1 (02:45:40):
So there was no.

Speaker 3 (02:45:43):
Inclination on your part or desire or expectation or hope
that you were gonna go to Cancoing with them in
June or two thousand and eight. No, okay, Never you
mentioned h he wore a body bug.

Speaker 8 (02:46:03):
That ma y.

Speaker 3 (02:46:04):
You talked about the things that it measured and and
that sort of thing, and why he did it, But
physically where did he wear it?

Speaker 2 (02:46:13):
On his upper arm? What kind of remember which side?

Speaker 3 (02:46:18):
And you saw him wear this on several occasions, almost
all the time. Okay, going back to what has been
marked Exhibit one sixty seven, my sarious, you mentioned that
he wore this body bug uh on his upper arm.
That gray object we see here is that his body bug?

Speaker 2 (02:46:39):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:46:42):
And you mentioned that there have been some discussion about
photographing him before his turn to Cancun, cause he was
proud of his body, right, yes, And as far as

(02:47:04):
engaging in this particular session or photo session that day,
whose suggestion was it.

Speaker 1 (02:47:17):
Was?

Speaker 2 (02:47:19):
I think I threw it out there that day. It's
something he had been wanting to do.

Speaker 3 (02:47:24):
Okay. Was this a peace offering of sorts on your part? Particularly?
Why did you offer him this opportunity?

Speaker 2 (02:47:38):
He was proud of his body, and I just wanted
to do something else that would make him happy.

Speaker 3 (02:47:46):
Was this with goal and mind? Depending on a positive note?

Speaker 2 (02:47:50):
Yeah, he didn't get the pictures he wanted, so I
offered to do that. I was going to do it anyway,
or he was going to at one point it was
going to happen. He wanted those photos so I just
suggested we could do it right now. It was late
in the day. I I wasn't gonna make it to
Lake Powell before sunset, so that was out of the trip.

(02:48:12):
So I figured I have time.

Speaker 3 (02:48:13):
Now.

Speaker 2 (02:48:14):
Technically I don't have to make it to Lake Powell
before sunset, so I have time.

Speaker 3 (02:48:19):
What do you mean he didn't get the pictures that
he wanted? You said he didn't get.

Speaker 2 (02:48:23):
The pictures and he wanted what do you mean the
from the CDs?

Speaker 3 (02:48:26):
Ah, So this s these pictures you were gonna take
of him, cause he was proud of his body. Where
were these pictures to be taken?

Speaker 2 (02:48:44):
We were gonna take them in the bedroom, but we
decided to do it in the shower.

Speaker 3 (02:48:52):
And were these to be taken with his camera for
your camera?

Speaker 2 (02:49:00):
The camera had just been packed, so we decided to
use his camera. That way, he could keep the photos
and didn't have to worry about me waiting for me
to give him to him.

Speaker 3 (02:49:11):
And we mentioned earlier in the day or just a
few minutes ago. Really you mentioned that he had three bathrooms.
I just want to make sure we're clear the shower
that we're talking about where these pictures were to take place.
Where was that shower located.

Speaker 2 (02:49:33):
In the master docroom.

Speaker 3 (02:49:36):
This might be a good time, judged him.

Speaker 1 (02:49:39):
All right, Ladies and gentlemen, ten thirty tomorrow morning, so
be here by ten twenty five. Please remember the admonition
have a nice evening. You are excused.

Speaker 2 (02:49:59):
Please be seated.

Speaker 1 (02:50:00):
The record will show the jury has left the courtroom.

Speaker 2 (02:50:02):
The serious you may step down.

Speaker 1 (02:50:03):
Counsel anything else before we break for the evening.

Speaker 5 (02:50:06):
None, thank you, all right,