Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, let's bring in.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
The jury, the jury, the defendant and all council.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Mister Martinez called.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Michael GALIERTI.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
Can you still your last name?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Please?
Speaker 5 (00:17):
G A L I E T.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
I sure, right hand?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You do so, swear the testimony you're about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
So help you guys, please.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Walk right around here and.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
Have a seat.
Speaker 6 (00:33):
Your name, sir, Michael Galletti?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
And who do you work for?
Speaker 6 (00:40):
I work for the city of the City of Cottonwood Heights,
Cottonwood Heights Police Department.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
And are you a police officer?
Speaker 6 (00:47):
I am a police officer.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
How long have you worked with the Cottonwood Heights Police.
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Department Four and a half years?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
And what state is Cottonwood Heights The state of Utah.
And prior to working with the Cottonwood Heights Police Department,
did you work for another police department?
Speaker 6 (01:06):
Yes, I worked for the West Jordan Police Department in Utah.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
And in June of two thousand and eight, what were
your duties with the West Jordan Police Department.
Speaker 6 (01:17):
In June of two thousand and eight, I was an
officer police officer for West Jordan Police Department. I was
working community policing and patrol.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And as a patrol officer. Did you ride a bike,
a motorcycle or a car? This is in June.
Speaker 6 (01:38):
Yes, I had a car with a bicycle on the
back of the car.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And on June fifth of two and eight, did you
have occasion to be on duty?
Speaker 6 (01:50):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
And on that particular day, sometime around noon, did you
make a traffic stop?
Speaker 6 (01:58):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
What time was it? I know, I said, shortly afternoon?
But do you remember the exact time that the traffic
stop was made?
Speaker 6 (02:07):
Just afternoon twelve oh two three?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
And where was the traffic stop? Where did you make
the traffic stop?
Speaker 6 (02:14):
On a Redwood Road in West Jordan southbound?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And what kind of car did you stop?
Speaker 6 (02:23):
As I recall, it was a white car, a Ford Focus.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And what was the reason that you stopped this Ford Focus?
Speaker 6 (02:32):
I saw that the rear license played on the car
was mounted upside down, and.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
So you pulled the car over? And what happened? Explain
to me what happened.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
I approached the vehicle as I normally do on a
traffic stop, introduced myself and indicated the reason for the.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Stop and the person who was the driver? Who is that.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
I understand the driver is Jody Harius.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Is this individual in court today?
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Yes, I believe so.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And tell me where she is seated and what she is.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Wearing as she is seated at the defendant's table wearing
black on the far left.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
You're going to read the record reflect the identification of
the defendant. Yes, sir. One of the things that you
just told us was that, well, I was a patrol officer,
and I assume that you made numerous traffic stops back
then and even now right typically, Yes, And how is
it that, as you sit here today, which is many
years later, that you remember this particular traffic stop.
Speaker 6 (03:44):
I've been a police officer more than thirteen years, almost
fourteen years, and I've only made one stop for a
vehicle with an upside down license plate.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And that's this case here.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yes, So you go up to the defendant, miss Air,
Do you speak with her or what happens after you
tell her the reason for the stop? What did she say?
Speaker 6 (04:06):
I asked why the license plate was on upside down?
And as I recall, she said, oh, my friends must
be playing a joke on me.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Does Utah require the front license plate to be on
also or not?
Speaker 6 (04:22):
Yes, front and back.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Do you remember the license plate on the car? Do
you remember what state was involved?
Speaker 6 (04:29):
As I recall, it was a California license plate.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
And while you made the stop, did you see whether
or not there were any other cars that may have
been associated with that of the defendants stopping anywhere? Did
you see another car there?
Speaker 6 (04:44):
As I do recall, there was a second vehicle that
pulled over after I stopped the white Ford Focus?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And where did it pull over?
Speaker 6 (04:54):
If I'm not mistaken, it was in front of the
car that I stopped the Ford Focus?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And what was the defendant's demeanor, the driver's demeanor when
you were talking to her about this license plate issue
in the back?
Speaker 6 (05:09):
Demeanor? Pleasant? I think surprised that the license to learn
that the license plate was improperly displayed.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
And did she seem at all upset about anything at
the time.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
I didn't notice anything unusual other than a little surprised
to find that her license.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Plate was upside down, And that's based on her comment
that she told you about that somebody's playing a joke
on her. Yes, did she indicate or did you talk
to her about what you wanted her to do with
regard to the license plate.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
Well, as I recall, everything appeared to be in order otherwise,
and I just asked if she could correct that.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
And about how long was this traffic stop?
Speaker 6 (06:00):
I'd say it was fairly brief, two to three minutes.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And did you give her a citation for this up?
Speaker 6 (06:05):
I did not. It was just a verbal warning and.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
This was on.
Speaker 6 (06:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I don't have any other questions.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Thank you, cross examination.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
Good morning, A good morning.
Speaker 7 (06:22):
Was there when you made this traffic stop? You mentioned
that it was for you noticed the license plate was
upside down?
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Correct?
Speaker 7 (06:29):
Yes, So there weren't any other traffic violations or anything
else that would have motivated you to pull this car
over that time that I recall, No, okay, and have
you reviewed your report recently? With there would have been
documented in your report if there was any other reason.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
No, I would not have made a written documentation. There
would be a radio log created by the dispatch agency.
Speaker 7 (06:59):
But you don't recall any other reason other than.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
The license plate being upside down.
Speaker 7 (07:03):
Just the license plate and that caught your attention. Yes,
do you remember where you were as in relation to
this ford focus when this license plate caught your attention?
Speaker 6 (07:18):
Well, what I recall is that I was southbound on
Redwood Road, which is a main artery road in that community,
and it's typical that I would be looking at license
plates looking for expired tags, so it would not be
(07:39):
unusual to see something. I mean, it would not be
unusual that I'd initiate a stop on something as unusual
as an upside down license plate.
Speaker 7 (07:49):
I understand that, and maybe I should be more specific
with my question. I was asking where you were located
specifically in comparison to the ford Focus. Were you in
a behind it? Were you in a lane to the
side of it?
Speaker 6 (08:02):
How did you make this observation of the license I
can't say specifically I was behind the Ford Focus. Redwood
Road has probably three lanes in each direction and a
center safety lane. I can't say which lane I was in,
and I can't say today which lane the ford Focus
(08:24):
was in.
Speaker 7 (08:25):
Okay, do you remember there? You said it's a three
lane road. Is that three on each side or is
it three altogether?
Speaker 6 (08:31):
Three southbound and three northbound?
Speaker 7 (08:33):
Pretty busy road then, right, yes, Okay, several cars on
the road.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
Typically at that time of day, there would have been
moderate traffic.
Speaker 7 (08:44):
Okay, so this must have been something pretty eye catching
to you, right, seeing this license played upside down? Yes,
it stood out to you amongst all this other traffic
and all these other things on the.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Road, I'd say, yes, okay.
Speaker 7 (08:59):
And as a matter of fact, you told us that
that was the only stop of that nature you'd made
in I believe thirteen years of patrol.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Is that correct.
Speaker 6 (09:09):
I don't recall ever seeing a license plate displayed upside
down on a car operating on the road. Okay.
Speaker 7 (09:17):
And you also described miss Arius's demeanor as being surprised.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
Well, she said, oh, my friends must have been playing
a trick on me.
Speaker 7 (09:28):
Was there anything else about it other than what she said?
Was she anything about it?
Speaker 6 (09:33):
Was?
Speaker 7 (09:34):
She looked surprised that you pulled her over before you
started conversing with her.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Not that I recall. She was pleasant, as I recall
pleasant positive exchange.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
Okay, Well, thank.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
You, sir.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Any redirect.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
In terms of whether or not the license plate stood out,
wasn't it wasn't it your job to look for that
sort of thing back then?
Speaker 6 (09:58):
Most certainly, Yes, operative improper display of a license plate
would be a violation.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
And you look at that as part of your job, right, yes,
And you were asked whether or not there was a
report that was written in this case. And you asked one, O,
there's a traffic blog, remember saying something about that.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
I believe, I said a radiologue.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Radiologue? And what's the difference between the police report and
a radiologue.
Speaker 6 (10:22):
A radiologue is automatically created by the dispatch service, which
is Valley Emergency Communications Center. And a police report is
a report that I would write, Yeah, Exhibit three, yes,
as indicates of West Jordan Police. That that's the radiologue
(10:45):
I'm referencing.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I don't have any other questions, any questions from the
jury for this witness. I see no hands, thank you,
may step down. The state may call it's next witness.
Speaker 8 (10:57):
They called for a field Colombo.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Right up here?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Can you spell your first and last name?
Speaker 9 (11:07):
Please?
Speaker 6 (11:07):
Real? pH A E. L.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Columbos all of truth, nothing but the truth.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
So help you, guys, I.
Speaker 10 (11:17):
Do thank you.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
You have a.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Your name, sir? And uh? Where are your work sir?
Speaker 11 (11:30):
Devonzo Incorporated?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
And what kind of business?
Speaker 11 (11:33):
Uh is that the DBA budget rent a card?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
So are you the owner of this franchise?
Speaker 11 (11:42):
What it sounds like devon correct?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And what is it that where is this place located,
do you have more than one or do you have many?
Speaker 11 (11:50):
Admissible airport in reading California?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And what is the business of this budget place that
you have.
Speaker 11 (11:58):
Running vehicles, either leisure or business?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
And how long have you had this budget rent a
car business out and ready?
Speaker 11 (12:07):
Approximately five years?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And drawing your attention back to June second of two.
Speaker 8 (12:16):
Thousand and eight, did you have occasion.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
To be working?
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
How is it that the renting works just in theory
not as it applies to June second? How does it
work when a person comes in?
Speaker 5 (12:31):
There's a couple different ways. Either somebody will walk up
unannounced and ask for a vehicle without a reservation, or
they will call you on the phone and make a reservation,
and or go on the website and make a reservation
through one of the internet programs that offer rental cars.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
And in order to rent a car, what is required?
In other words from the person? I understand that money
will be eventually required, But what kind of identification is
a credit card required?
Speaker 8 (13:07):
What is required?
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Twenty one and over with a major credit card, valid
driver's license and twenty five and over if you're over,
if you're under twenty five years old and between twenty
one and twenty five. You'll need a major credit card
to runt a vehicle. If you are twenty five and older,
just the valid driver's license and a credit card.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Going back to June second of two thousand and eight,
did you have occasion to rent a car? And I'll
show you exhibit number two thirty five and see if
you recognize this in particular item.
Speaker 11 (13:54):
I do recognize it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
And were you the person who actually or the.
Speaker 8 (14:00):
Associated with that rental?
Speaker 5 (14:02):
I was?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
And is that a true effort copy of the car
that you rented back on June second of two thousand
and eight, and the time was what eight O four
in the morning?
Speaker 11 (14:13):
Eight ol four in the morning? This would be uh,
this would be accurate, alright?
Speaker 12 (14:18):
And is that the original that looks up to to
be an original?
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Or is it just a copy?
Speaker 5 (14:23):
This is the original?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Alright?
Speaker 8 (14:24):
I may have it, bet I remember for.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
The admission of exhibit number two thirty five, nor.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Georgian Kay thirty five is admitted, sir, I might take
it out.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Of its packaging so we can look. First of all,
there's three sheets. Is this what is you the paperwork
that you keep?
Speaker 9 (14:56):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
That's associated with each rental.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Yes, we'll keep those in copies.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
All right, let's take a look at the copy on.
First of all, there's the name here. Do you see that?
I do?
Speaker 11 (15:11):
What's the name Jody Arius?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
This is that the person that rented this car? Yes, sir,
is that person who rented the car? Is she in
court today?
Speaker 6 (15:20):
Yes, sir?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Tell me where she is seated? What she is wearing?
Speaker 5 (15:24):
She's dark hair in the black on the left hand
side of the desk, right there on my left.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Here made the record reflect the identification of the defendant? Yes,
with regard to this particular transaction. What was the miss
Arius's demeanor when she came up to rent this car
from you?
Speaker 11 (15:45):
Very pleasant?
Speaker 8 (15:48):
She go ahead?
Speaker 5 (15:49):
She had phoned a few times before requesting a vehicle,
and that'd be ready when she gets to the to
the counter.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
So she had actually called in, Yes, sir, How do
you know that she actually called it in?
Speaker 11 (16:03):
She stated her name okay.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
And you had answered the phone before as I did.
And when she called, did she request a specific car
or just said I need a car on this particular
date and time.
Speaker 11 (16:17):
Something dependable?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
When she showed up there, was she alone or was
she with somebody else.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
I saw a gentleman.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
So was it a guy?
Speaker 11 (16:32):
Yes, I've been sure if it was with her or not.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
But and when she was renting this car, why don't
you tell us what happened, what you said and what
she said?
Speaker 5 (16:42):
I had asked where she was going, and like I
do with all my customers, to get familiar with them.
So when it came I returned, she was going to
take a small, just go around town trip, nowhere big.
She did not want a car that was loud in color.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
For example, did you offer her a red car or not?
Speaker 11 (17:07):
I did it first.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And what did you say when you offered her a
red car?
Speaker 5 (17:12):
She would rather have a lighter car, wider color.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Did you tell you why?
Speaker 5 (17:16):
She did not?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
So she wanted a car that was not red. And
then what happened?
Speaker 5 (17:24):
Again? I asked her a little bit about who she was,
and she had mentioned she was single, but just coming
around town. She was very pleasant to speak to, very friendly.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
And she help or provided the information in this document correct?
Speaker 6 (17:49):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Well do you remember her hair color? Back then?
Speaker 5 (17:54):
It was blonde?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
And so this in form that's here is that provided
by the customer in this case, miss areas, The date
that she rented.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
It is right up here right that would be the
date rented, the June second at eight hundred are a
little over eight oh four.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Okay, And then it says, don do you see that
right there?
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I do.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I think we know what that means.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
What that means, but her her time of arrival back
to bring the car would have been June second at
also at eight fifteen June sixth, Is that, I mean,
excuse me, June sixth? Yes?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
And is this car the type that has unlimited miles?
In other words, a person can go anywhere they want.
What can you tell here?
Speaker 5 (18:47):
I could probably tell.
Speaker 11 (18:50):
And it should be unlimited miles?
Speaker 6 (18:52):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (18:53):
So is that right there unlimited?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
So if it's unlimited miles, the reason you were asking
her where she was going? Was it because of the
mileage issue or was it something else.
Speaker 11 (19:03):
Certain vehicles.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
That we get in.
Speaker 11 (19:08):
Might need an oil.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Change, and a certain they're they're they're they're to be
oil changed every so often, and if not, we get
penalized for letting them go over their preventive maintenance. So
I'm always asking where they're going to find out what
sort of vehicle I'm going to give them.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
And there are these initials and there is a signature
on this particular document, correct.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
How long did this whole conversation or renting the car?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Tech?
Speaker 11 (19:42):
Probably a little over fifteen minutes?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
And well let's look at it.
Speaker 8 (19:50):
What uh.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
What kind of car did you rent her?
Speaker 11 (19:54):
White Ford Focus?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Were you there when the was returned?
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Yes, sir?
Speaker 3 (20:03):
And were you the person at check the car in?
Speaker 11 (20:06):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Did you notice anything unusual about the car when you
were checking it in this white fourth focus? I did.
Speaker 13 (20:13):
Why don't you tell me what you noticed.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
After the conversation that I had with her, I had
thought she would be local miles, and in turn, the
car had a little bit more miles than I thought
on it for being local, So it struck me.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Let's look at two Exhibit two thirty seven point oh one.
How many miles are we talking about there that year?
Speaker 5 (20:35):
So the nineteen twenty five nine twenty five miles it
had leaving three miles in were four thousand and seven
hundred and fifty eight.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
But if you take a look up here, how many total.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Oils driven twenty eight to thirty four two eight hundred and.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Thirty four Did you talk to her about that.
Speaker 11 (20:58):
I thought it was very, very odd and did.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
And what did she say?
Speaker 5 (21:05):
I just decided to take it a little bit longer trip.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
And did she say where she went or anything?
Speaker 11 (21:11):
She did not.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
When the cars come back, do you just leave them
like that? Do you send them somewhere to be cleaned? Exactly?
What is it that happens?
Speaker 11 (21:24):
We have detailers that cleaned the vehicles.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Were you able to look at the car before the
detailers got a hold of it?
Speaker 11 (21:31):
I did myself.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Oh so you actually cleaned it yourself.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
I didn't. But I go out there and usually do
a walk around to make sure there's no rock chips,
dense scratches and interiors.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
And what did you notice about the inside of the car?
Speaker 11 (21:48):
There were stains on the back seat and.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
What was the color of the stains?
Speaker 5 (21:53):
It appeared to be kool aid?
Speaker 10 (21:55):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (21:58):
And were those cleaned up?
Speaker 5 (21:59):
I took it up myself to go there and clean it.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
How about anything in the front seat areas? Did you
notice anything there?
Speaker 5 (22:06):
I did? What did you notice the same kool aid
stain which I thought maybe there was?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
She had kids in the vehicle, which which seat had
the kool aid stains?
Speaker 11 (22:16):
The passenger and the back seat in the middle, and
which the.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
One had the larger of the stains, the front or
the back the back? And how about the floor mets
was did the car go out with floor mets?
Speaker 11 (22:30):
They do?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
And were all the floor mets there when it was
returned they were not? And is that the front and
the back or just the front that we're missing?
Speaker 5 (22:40):
All of them were missing.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
I don't have any more questions, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Cross examination.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
Morning, sir.
Speaker 7 (22:58):
I want to make sure I understand stood you correctly.
Are you the owner the manager of this budget rent
a car or you may be both?
Speaker 5 (23:06):
No, it's I do business as budget budget has I'm
not an employee of budgets. I don't work for budget.
I owned Devonzo, Inc. Which we do business as.
Speaker 7 (23:18):
Okay, So you're a franchise.
Speaker 11 (23:20):
Owner, independent contractor.
Speaker 7 (23:24):
Okay, but you do business as a budget right.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
Now, budget rent a car, but I have, like I said,
there's nothing as far as me working for them.
Speaker 7 (23:32):
Okay. I think I understand that. Are you familiar with
the business practices of budget rent car then, having.
Speaker 11 (23:39):
Run one for a while, yes, okay?
Speaker 7 (23:41):
And how long have you run the budget rent a car?
Speaker 5 (23:45):
A little over five years? Okay.
Speaker 7 (23:46):
And this is at the writing airport correct reading California? Correct, Yes, sir,
Based on your experience and knowledge of the business practices
with budget rent cards, you know, do they associate with
their contract with any companies like orbits dot com or
some of these search engines that let you look for
(24:08):
compare rental car prices throughout companies.
Speaker 11 (24:11):
Yes, sir, they do do that, yes, okay.
Speaker 7 (24:14):
And are you aware when you get the car rental
whether or not what the source was of where it
came from.
Speaker 5 (24:24):
There's a code in air and sometimes I could maybe
not what company orbits, but I do know that they
either made it via the eight hundred number or online. Okay.
Speaker 7 (24:35):
And is that something that's on the form or is
that something on some paperwork we don't have with us.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
It would be on the reservation itself, which we don't.
Speaker 6 (24:44):
Have, okay.
Speaker 7 (24:47):
And then when miss Arias called you, that was a
follow up based on a reservation.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
That already been made.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Correct.
Speaker 11 (24:55):
No, I'm not aware.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Okay, you don't know.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
No, I didn't see her.
Speaker 11 (24:58):
In the system early here.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
I mean, I can't recall whether I saw her in
the system or not, but I do know that she
she called.
Speaker 7 (25:04):
Me, okay, all right, and she called you to ensure
that a vehicle would be ready, Yes, sir, okay. When
you rent a car to a person, and we just
looked at the form, somebody doesn't just show up with
cash and take.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
The car, right, We don't accept cash.
Speaker 8 (25:27):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (25:29):
My point is, I guess you need some ID you
do okay?
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Uh?
Speaker 13 (25:33):
And what do you need?
Speaker 5 (25:34):
A driver's license, a valid driver's license, and a major
credit card? Okay?
Speaker 7 (25:39):
Do you photocopy the driver's license? We do not, okay,
but you verify it.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
We verify it in our system.
Speaker 7 (25:46):
And uh, you, Gina said, a valid credit card as well?
Do you run that put a deposit on it? How
does that work? Before the person takes the car out.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Of the credit card is swiped through a machine on
the keyboard, and it is verified whether it has funds
in there or not. Do this wipe?
Speaker 7 (26:07):
Is there a certain amount of funds that you might
check or in that regard or.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
How does that work?
Speaker 5 (26:13):
It might have been different back there, but right now
with a major credit card, it's either two hundred dollars
or the amount of the rental okay, whatever's greater. It's
they're gonna minimum two hundred dollars they're gonna hold.
Speaker 7 (26:26):
And what about insurance? Do you verify someone's insurance or
how does that work?
Speaker 11 (26:30):
We don't offer insurance.
Speaker 5 (26:31):
We offer coverage, So we ask the customer and explain
to them some of the coverages that we offer. Okay.
Speaker 7 (26:40):
But if they decline the coverage, do they have to
show you proof of insurance in some other form like I'm.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
With this company or that company? They usually bring that. Okay.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
Do you remember from this car rent of whether or
not Miss Areas did.
Speaker 14 (26:51):
That or not?
Speaker 5 (26:53):
I don't recall. Okay.
Speaker 7 (26:56):
And you said you had at least a fifteen minute
interaction with her at least okay. And was that when
she provided you the information her address, phone, number, of
things of that nature correct, Okay, She wasn't hesitant about
(27:16):
any of that.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Nope, okay.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
And then this interaction continued as it related to the
type and color of the car that she wanted. Is
that correct?
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Yes? She usually with my customers, like I said, I
get to know them and I usually offer them different
vehicles that I might have on my lot that might
suit them.
Speaker 7 (27:39):
Okay. And I believe you said one of the things
she said to me when we spoke a while back,
was it was your custom and practice to kind of
get to know your customers speak with them a while.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
That sort of absolutely okay, And she wasn't.
Speaker 7 (27:50):
Evasive in any way to your conversation. She wasn't okay
some of the questions I have.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Judge, thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
You indicate that you do verify your driver's license. Is
that correct?
Speaker 11 (28:03):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Sir? Uh, Let's take a look at exhibit number thirty five.
It's does this have a place for a driver's license
on it?
Speaker 8 (28:16):
You see that?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Let me show you. Take a look at, uh, exhibit
two point up here you have four last numbers of
(28:40):
seven one three seven. You see that up there? I
do that in front of you. You have a driver's license, right,
yes I do. And does that have a the last
four digits of that driver's license or.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
What it does?
Speaker 3 (28:54):
And what are they?
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Seven one three seven?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
So that's the driver's license that's involved? Correct?
Speaker 11 (28:59):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (29:00):
And the name on the that driver's license is who that.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
You have juve the area so that it matches contract?
Speaker 15 (29:08):
Okay, no objections.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Take a look at it. It's a little bit there
we go and uh the address there it's a peel
box six twenty two, So does the person. Obviously, a
person does not have to list the residential address where
they live. They can just give you a peel box
(29:39):
and then rent something. Restate your question in terms of renting,
do do you require that they give you a driver's
license with a residential address or is a peel box?
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Okay, we're in a rural area, so peel boxes, especially
at that time, we're fine. They're trying to read us
that where they would need a physical address. But back
then peel boxes were accepted.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
And your cars that you rent, does California require them
to have both the front and a back license plate?
Speaker 6 (30:11):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I don't have any other questions.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Thank you, any questions from the jury for this witness,
I see no hands.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Thank you. You may step down.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
All detective for it.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Detective, you are still into roath, do you understand.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Right?
Speaker 13 (30:32):
Step on floaded.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
And yesterday before we left, we were actually viewing an item,
weren't we.
Speaker 13 (30:46):
Yes, we were going.
Speaker 14 (30:52):
To do this, and you're ashamed of it, so ashamed
that you will come up with the story and try
to hide.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
How was there a game? Did you think teachers as well?
Speaker 6 (31:12):
And that it convinced me.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
They mean you.
Speaker 10 (31:15):
I hope you can convince a jury, but I doubt
it very seriously.
Speaker 14 (31:20):
There's no evidence of anybody else but.
Speaker 6 (31:24):
Nobody.
Speaker 10 (31:34):
And we're still not done looking at all the evidence.
We still have other things to uh to check in
the lab and other blood swabs and other things like that.
Speaker 14 (31:47):
And every time they call me and tell me.
Speaker 10 (31:50):
Hey, we've checked this, points a jokey, Hey, we've checked
that at points a joke.
Speaker 14 (31:56):
Nothing points of anybody else. Do you wanna be true always?
If not, we can just end it now and we'll
just leave it the way it is.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
You know, And it's obvious that is there.
Speaker 14 (32:08):
No, it's obvious that you committed a crime that you hurt.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
The reason, No, you hurt.
Speaker 14 (32:14):
It's not like that, it's it's I know that you did.
Speaker 10 (32:18):
This, and you refuse to tell me why there's any
You refuse to tell me why.
Speaker 14 (32:25):
There's no reason somebody else would come in and do
this to him. There's no motive whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Haven't found any What is my motive?
Speaker 14 (32:34):
Jealousy, anger, fear.
Speaker 6 (32:37):
If you're being alone for.
Speaker 10 (32:38):
The angry at him for not keeping you in his life,
I don't know.
Speaker 14 (32:42):
That's why I'm trying to figure it out. There are
so many motives, with too many. We know you had
a twenty five otto you guys are where had it stolen?
(33:04):
Recovered the ammunition and the matches.
Speaker 10 (33:07):
We recovered a shellcasing, matches, the ammunition, prints, your.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
Blood, your hair.
Speaker 8 (33:14):
The motive.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
You were there wasn't jealous of anything.
Speaker 9 (33:20):
I was a little bit in these and he was
going to Cancun, but that wasn't the reason.
Speaker 14 (33:24):
Like I could go to Cancun.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
And it's not cheap to go to my I mean,
it's not expensive to.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
Go to Max.
Speaker 14 (33:30):
Held probably stand in above room when he was in
a shower.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And you shot him in the head.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
I was kneeling your own side and looking at him
choe shoes, and then.
Speaker 10 (33:41):
You had a knife and you stabbed him several.
Speaker 16 (33:49):
Joke.
Speaker 10 (33:50):
Tell me the truth, please, or if you want giving
me so much already, why not? Do you want too?
Do you wanna continue? Do you wanna tell me the truth?
What did you do with the gun?
Speaker 4 (34:11):
I never had it my possession, Tony.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
You did never You haven't.
Speaker 6 (34:17):
I don't have it.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah, you don't have it.
Speaker 10 (34:22):
You knaw People say that when they know of the
gun they've seen the gun, they've touched the gun.
Speaker 14 (34:28):
You don't have it.
Speaker 16 (34:31):
I saw the gun, yeah, that you had it before,
you've touched it, you've used it, I know you have.
Speaker 9 (34:45):
I don't think I've ever even fired a gun. I've
I've done those and arrows and other friends and water guns.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
And they want a real gun.
Speaker 9 (34:58):
Isn't the gun that I got on Friday.
Speaker 14 (35:00):
So you're gonna continue to tell me that you.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Didn't do this to him, did not kill Travis.
Speaker 8 (35:07):
I believe you did.
Speaker 10 (35:09):
I truly believe you did. And there's nothing shown that anybody
else did this. Nothing been in so many scenes and
so many investigations, and there's always always some type of
evidence left behind, no matter how car and in this case,
there was evidence.
Speaker 14 (35:32):
Not pointing to anybody else, just you. And that's what
I have to go by, and that's what my report's
gonna say.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Okay, I just.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Didn't I had planned to hurt him in any way.
Speaker 9 (35:45):
I you know, I'm not the riost person, but I
I don't think I could stab him. I think I
would have to shoot him antimously until he was dead
if that were my intention. And again I'd bring up
the gloves again that I would have to wear gloves,
(36:06):
cause I mean, I'm.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Not too worried about prince. They gets grow all over anyway.
Speaker 9 (36:09):
But I would never stab if if if, if I
had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least
I could have done was make it humane as possible
or quick or something.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
You know. I found like killing is humane so to speak.
Speaker 9 (36:27):
I don't mean that way.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
I just mean, I know, I know what you mean.
Like he was still alone.
Speaker 6 (36:34):
Yes, he was.
Speaker 10 (36:35):
He was alive for a while, and I knew that
he'd been shocked first, and he was still alive and
possibly tried to get away, maybe even tried to fight back.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
I think he was in shock. I just remember waking
up him.
Speaker 14 (36:50):
And you didn't see him fight back or anything, did you.
He just kind of collapsed there And no.
Speaker 9 (36:56):
He was here my outside of his shower and you
you pulled.
Speaker 14 (37:01):
Him this way and you try to get away with him.
But then he couldn't go any further.
Speaker 9 (37:05):
He said he couldn't move, Yeah, said he couldn't feel it.
Speaker 14 (37:08):
That's the last pay you saw him. He said that
he stopped and he kind of collapsed right there.
Speaker 10 (37:12):
She was standing there and he was over here, or
and it just doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 9 (37:20):
He was still like able to move his like he was.
He was all I guess he was all conscious of
here sort of still. He wasn't like on his leg
or on his knees or on his feet.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
He wasn't walk.
Speaker 9 (37:36):
Yeah, I'm trying to think if I want a guy
him from there. He was sort of using his legs,
but he wasn't standing up.
Speaker 6 (37:41):
Yeah, is you can.
Speaker 14 (37:43):
To continue on that? Proud?
Speaker 8 (37:44):
Okay about only further.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
I don't remember what time I laughed, but.
Speaker 14 (37:57):
I gave you an opportunity. This was the only opportunity, okay.
Speaker 10 (38:03):
And and you just you just yeah, you gave me
the information that you were there, but I knew you
were there, and then you throw some story in that
is not plausible. It just doesn't make any sense with
the evident or any of you sense it.
Speaker 14 (38:18):
All that evidence tells a story.
Speaker 10 (38:22):
And know where in that evidence is that story that
you told me a match?
Speaker 4 (38:28):
That's it.
Speaker 14 (38:28):
How you wanna leave it? You wanna stop here, and
that's how you wanna leave it.
Speaker 9 (38:35):
I know that I didn't teach Travis's life, and I
don't think I know you did.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Okay, I know you don't believe me.
Speaker 9 (38:41):
I as long as I am here, someone else's happy,
and it's not now, So.
Speaker 14 (38:50):
You're just gonna let these two people get away with
that one.
Speaker 9 (38:53):
There's not even any way to identify that when was
the male one was a female.
Speaker 14 (38:56):
They were taller than me, not my whole lot. Okay,
can you ready to go back?
Speaker 6 (39:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:11):
I guess I'd still like to say something to his family.
Speaker 9 (39:13):
Okay, maybe I could write them a letter.
Speaker 14 (39:18):
Oh can you? You always have that opportunity to do that?
Speaker 4 (39:21):
So would they receive it?
Speaker 6 (39:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 14 (39:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
I don't mean would they accept it?
Speaker 9 (39:26):
I mean, if I have you, if they've made it
to them, would they get it?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Do you know?
Speaker 6 (39:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (39:31):
I don't have their I I don't. I'm not gonna
provide you their adress. I know the r they know
where you're, where you're gonna be, and if they wanna make.
Speaker 14 (39:37):
Contact with you, they could do that.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
So and I know his grandmother's address, and at least
if I could.
Speaker 10 (39:42):
Mail it, But okay, I don't know if that's so, well,
let me see if I get something to take you
on home.
Speaker 14 (39:49):
You're absolutely sure you will leg like this.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Nony one else is stay h.
Speaker 14 (40:03):
It's it thing. Okay, the next time I say, you
will probably be in Phoenix.
Speaker 6 (40:10):
Is that cool?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
How about your voice?
Speaker 14 (40:13):
Well, you're going there regardless, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 10 (40:16):
But I was hoping that we could resolve this year,
and it's obvious by what you're telling me you don't
wanna resolve this year.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
They just can't.
Speaker 14 (40:28):
Well, at the beginning, you told me.
Speaker 10 (40:29):
That you couldn't tell me because you couldn't tell me
who they were, because if you didn't want your family
to get hurt, can't I can getell your my family.
Now you're telling me you don't know who they are, and therefore.
Speaker 14 (40:44):
It doesn't matter. So there's nothing you can tell me.
I can give you so many inconsistencies that I don't
even wanna.
Speaker 6 (40:51):
Deal with right now.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Hey, might just don't want your family to get hurt.
Speaker 14 (40:54):
Okay, they won't be hurt. You're hurting them right now
by not telling me the truth. That's what you.
Speaker 15 (41:01):
Okay mean, we have broken examination.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
I should indicate I have any other questions of this time.
Speaker 7 (41:13):
Thank you, detective. It's been a while since you and
I talked.
Speaker 5 (41:17):
We've seen numerous clips.
Speaker 7 (41:22):
Throughout the past few days before we talk about what
we saw on those clips. I want to go back
to some of the things we discussed, or you discussed
with mister Martinez. A while back. You and I had
talked about your interview with Miss Arias on the fifteenth
(41:51):
of July. Remember talking to me about that, Yes I did, okay,
And we talked about some of the things that you
said in there about mister Alexander portraying himself a certain way,
(42:11):
but he's not Remember us discussing that, Yes, I do okay,
And we also talk about referring to mister Alexander miss Areas,
how they kept their relationship hidden from everybody else. We
talked about that, Yes okay. And one of the final
things we talked about is that you had made the
(42:32):
comment that maybe you're.
Speaker 6 (42:35):
May we approach.
Speaker 7 (42:39):
A detective a few days back. We also talked about
your comment to Miss Arias that you were just going
there to have a good time and something got out
of hand. Correct, Yes, okay. Now, after we talked about that,
mister Martinez talked to you about techniques, interview techniques, interrogation techniques.
(43:05):
So that's kind of what I want to talk to
you a little bit about as you've said, I believe
nineteen years with the police department, correct, yes, okay, And
you've been trained in interview techniques, yes I am okay,
And you've been training interrogation techniques.
Speaker 13 (43:20):
Yes, the same thing.
Speaker 7 (43:21):
Okay, So you would label them all the same thing, Yes,
they are, okay. And what label would you use?
Speaker 5 (43:28):
Interview or interrogation.
Speaker 17 (43:30):
Some courses are labeled both interview and interrogation courses or
just interviews.
Speaker 7 (43:35):
Okay. What sort of training then, in your years with
the MESA police department have you had regarding interviews? I'll
just say interview. Well, we'll go interviews and interrogation.
Speaker 17 (43:50):
When I first became a detective, I took an interview
and interrogation.
Speaker 13 (43:54):
Course about thirty hours. It was a basic course.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
And I.
Speaker 17 (44:01):
Soon after that took an interview course it's more advanced.
Speaker 13 (44:06):
Twelve hours or so.
Speaker 8 (44:08):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (44:10):
Is that it?
Speaker 9 (44:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (44:15):
Basically?
Speaker 7 (44:15):
Yes, okay. And before you came a detective, where there
courses in the academy on interviewing that sort of thing?
Speaker 13 (44:22):
Yes, there are.
Speaker 17 (44:23):
There are some basic courses in the academy on how
to contact people and how to interview people.
Speaker 7 (44:27):
Yes, okay, And I suspect as well. Even though we
use the words interview and interrogation, you said they're about
the same. There's got to be a difference in the
kind of interview you're conducting if you're, say, talking to
a witness versus talking to a suspect.
Speaker 13 (44:44):
Right, Yes, there are difference.
Speaker 7 (44:46):
Okay, could you explain that to us.
Speaker 17 (44:48):
Well, obviously, when you're talking to a witness, you're trying
to extract information that they saw remembered.
Speaker 13 (44:55):
Interrogation is more so talking to.
Speaker 17 (44:58):
Somebody who's suspected of a crime.
Speaker 7 (45:02):
Okay, So tell us then, well, these techniques that you discussed,
are those different than in the type of interview in
terms of the interview versus the interrogation.
Speaker 13 (45:22):
Yes, or a little different?
Speaker 7 (45:23):
A little different okay? And why are they different?
Speaker 13 (45:31):
Just because of the nature of what they are. You're
talking to a witness or someone who's accused of something,
it's going to be different. And why just for the
reasons I said.
Speaker 7 (45:45):
Well, let me ask you this then, in terms of
somebody being a suspect versus somebody just being a witness,
is there concern that somebody who's a suspect is to
be a little less forthcoming with information? Yes, that's obvious yet, okay,
and that there may be a concern that they're not
(46:07):
telling the truth craft yes, okay. So going back to
these techniques that you were talking to mister Martinez about
claiming that these things were techniques, what specific techniques can
you point to in terms of your interrogation that you
would classify your comments as.
Speaker 17 (46:29):
In this particular case. Every case is different. In this case,
you use evidence. Sometimes you could say, hey, I saw
your fingerprint there, or I know your fingerprints were there,
maybe they really weren't there.
Speaker 13 (46:43):
Those are some techniques that you use.
Speaker 7 (46:45):
Okay, Well, why what technique were you using them when
you said maybe you're going there to have a good
time with him and something got out of hand?
Speaker 5 (46:56):
What technique is that?
Speaker 17 (46:58):
That's usually what we call a theme. As you're talking
to somebody, as you research their backgrounds.
Speaker 13 (47:06):
You kind of get a somewhat of an understanding of.
Speaker 17 (47:09):
What their life is like and what relationships are like,
and you develop a theme in that case, and that's
the technique, okay.
Speaker 7 (47:21):
And as it relates to mister Alexander portraying himself a
different way and he's not really that type of guy,
what kind of theme would that be or what kind
of technique would that be?
Speaker 13 (47:33):
I was kind of playing on her emotions at that time.
Speaker 7 (47:38):
You saw her as emotional? No, not really, okay, but
you were playing on it. And even despite the fact
that you said you didn't see it right, I was hoping, okay,
And about the relationship being hidden from everyone else, you're claimless,
that's the technique as well, yes, And what technique is.
Speaker 13 (47:57):
That same technique I was hoping to play on.
Speaker 7 (48:01):
Her emotions now when it relates to and it's obvious
from the words you said when miss Arius told you
about the intruders you didn't believe are correct, Yes, okay,
in terms of interrogation in those suspects, have you been
(48:25):
trained on how to discerned deception or that there's indicators
of deception? Yes, okay, tell us about that.
Speaker 17 (48:37):
They're in the same courses that I've taken. There's certain
things that people do when when they're deceptive, They you know,
turn away a certain.
Speaker 13 (48:45):
Way, They you know, play with their clothes a lot.
Speaker 17 (48:48):
They you can tell when they're you know, reaching in
the back of their mind to try to find something
to tell you.
Speaker 7 (48:57):
Okay, And I believe that you said that within thirty
seconds to a minute, you could discern that those sort
of patterns. Is that right?
Speaker 13 (49:09):
I don't remember saying that.
Speaker 7 (49:11):
Let me ask you this, how many and I'm sure
I'm not expecting an exact number, but how many interrogations
have you conducted.
Speaker 5 (49:18):
Over the years?
Speaker 13 (49:19):
I don't really remember.
Speaker 7 (49:21):
Hundreds, yes, thousands, maybe hundreds thousands, I'm not sure. Okay, Now,
when you talk about indicators of deception, you talked about
really nonverbal indicators. What you just told me, would you
(49:42):
agree with that? I'm talking about nonverbal indicators? Okay? Are
there verbal indicators meaning in terms of what they tell you.
Speaker 13 (49:56):
Could be.
Speaker 8 (49:58):
Okay?
Speaker 7 (49:59):
Let me ask, based on your training and experience, is
there I mean, when people lie, is they're generally speaking,
based on your training, an effort to throw a little
truth in there to make the lie more believable. Yes,
it has to be plausible right from the lie's perspective,
(50:21):
He or she is trying to get you to say
something that's or believe something plausible. Right, Yes, And your job, then,
as a detective, I would imagine, is to kind of
sort out some of that, right, yes. Now, in one
(50:55):
of your answers, there was some discussion about out you
attempted to find a handgun or knife and you didn't
find one. Is that correct?
Speaker 13 (51:08):
That's correct?
Speaker 7 (51:10):
Were there knives recovered? Yes, the Alexander Holme, Yes, we did. Okay.
And what sort of knives.
Speaker 5 (51:19):
Did you recover?
Speaker 13 (51:21):
Kitchen knives?
Speaker 7 (51:22):
Okay? How many do you know?
Speaker 13 (51:26):
I don't recall the top of my head.
Speaker 7 (51:28):
Several a set, perhaps a set.
Speaker 13 (51:31):
There was a kitchen block was taken. There were knives in.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
The in the in the washing in the.
Speaker 13 (51:39):
Wash at that time, ditchwasher.
Speaker 7 (51:44):
And none of those will be determined to be evidence
related to this crime.
Speaker 13 (51:49):
We couldn't determine if they were the ones used or not.
Speaker 7 (51:53):
And you said, before we get back to the interviews,
you talked about you searched in the yard for the gun,
for any evidence, I guess, but any weapon right all
around the residents in and out the front yard, backyard area, yes, okay.
What about the neighborhood.
Speaker 13 (52:15):
We really didn't have anywhere to go.
Speaker 7 (52:19):
No neighbor's yard anything like that.
Speaker 13 (52:20):
You didn't look there, everything in the immediate area.
Speaker 7 (52:23):
All right, Well, let's talk about.
Speaker 11 (52:30):
The interviews.
Speaker 7 (52:31):
Then on July fifteenth, you felt as if you had
or you had enough evidence.
Speaker 5 (52:43):
To arrest Miss Areas.
Speaker 7 (52:45):
Correct. Yes, And in that regard then maybe complete isn't
the most accurate word, but you had a fairly complete investigation,
correct up to that point. Up to that point. Okay. Now,
(53:06):
if I need to refresh your recollection with the videos,
we can do that. But we one of the first
watched several but we had one video that really centered
around a period of time when you and miss Arius
were conversing about the advantages of her moving to Masa
(53:29):
or her move to Masa.
Speaker 5 (53:31):
She spoke about some of the advantages.
Speaker 7 (53:32):
Do you remember seeing that video a couple of days ago.
Speaker 13 (53:35):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (53:36):
And in that video she made a comment to the.
Speaker 6 (53:39):
Effect that.
Speaker 7 (53:41):
Travis told her that they could still hang out if
she moved in Mason.
Speaker 5 (53:46):
Do you recall that, yes?
Speaker 7 (53:48):
Okay, And did you and your investigation later determine hanging
out being a code for having sex?
Speaker 3 (53:57):
No.
Speaker 7 (53:58):
And the other thing that was interesting about that tape
was that it cut off right about the time this
Arias was talking about Lisa. She made a comment she
didn't know about him and Lisa, referring to Travis and Lisa.
Speaker 13 (54:17):
Do you recall that I don't recall that specific.
Speaker 8 (54:24):
Reviewing Exhibit three point fifty.
Speaker 7 (54:25):
One, refresher recollection, Detective, sure.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
At this time.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
Please be back in the designated area at one twenty
five and we will start promptly at one thirty. Please
remember the admonition you are excused have a nice lane.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Let's bring in the jury. Are the presence of the jury,
the defendant and all counsel. Mister Nerman, you may continue
withus cross examination.
Speaker 7 (55:00):
Judge's the screen up, Detective. When we before we broke
for the lunch break, we were about to talk about
Exhibit three point fifty one. I asked you about the
tail end of that, and you needed your recollection refresh
(55:20):
refreshed on that, and I'm going to play that for
you now.
Speaker 13 (55:23):
Okay, okay, let's move to after the breakup? Oh okay, what.
Speaker 8 (55:30):
What kept you and.
Speaker 4 (55:34):
I actually moved?
Speaker 14 (55:37):
Let's move to after the breakup?
Speaker 9 (55:39):
Oh okay, what.
Speaker 8 (55:43):
What kept you and Mesa?
Speaker 3 (55:45):
At that point?
Speaker 9 (55:48):
I actually moved to Mesa a few weeks after we
broke up. Really, I mean, as far as the timeline goes,
but I mean, if you want to call it our
official breakup, shortly thereafter, it's like we were still seeing.
Speaker 10 (56:01):
So you guys were seeing each other, but it was
a long distance type relationship.
Speaker 4 (56:05):
It was always long distance. When we were officially dating,
we didn't we had dated. We dated from about the
beginning of February to about the end of June. Soar
februd March what made you about five months? Told?
Speaker 14 (56:16):
Okay, in June two thousand seven, you guys broke up
and and then you moved to Masa.
Speaker 4 (56:24):
Yeah, I moved to Mesa.
Speaker 14 (56:25):
Sort of most people when they break up.
Speaker 6 (56:28):
They kind of like go there.
Speaker 9 (56:29):
I know where there was, and we plans were already
in order for me to move there. I was already
speaking with a friend who was you know, it was
gonna be her roommate, and I was her roommate for.
Speaker 8 (56:40):
A short time.
Speaker 4 (56:44):
She's kind of flighty s She's a great girl.
Speaker 8 (56:47):
Though.
Speaker 9 (56:50):
I had talked to Travis about maybe going to southern
California instead, Okay, and.
Speaker 4 (56:56):
He's really he's he's really.
Speaker 14 (57:01):
Persuasive, you persuade you to stay there Mesa. A.
Speaker 9 (57:05):
He's he kind of was playing up all the advantages
if I did come to Mesa, and if I did,
you know, he said, you know, it's it's it's a
great place. We could still see each other and hang
out on occasion.
Speaker 6 (57:19):
There.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
This church is very strong. You know, you'll you'll make
a lot of friends. And I already knew all this
stuff prior because I.
Speaker 9 (57:25):
Had we'd talked about that, you know, and so I went.
Speaker 4 (57:31):
Ahead and just made the move.
Speaker 9 (57:32):
It sounded at the time like a good idea, and
you guys continued to kind.
Speaker 14 (57:37):
Of see each other at that time.
Speaker 10 (57:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (57:39):
At the time, I was sort of living more across
town over by Greenfield.
Speaker 5 (57:41):
Do you know where that is? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (57:43):
Uh, it was up.
Speaker 9 (57:43):
Greenfield near Broadway, Greenfield Broadway where the nearest cross streets,
and that's where the girl that w was originally talking
with me.
Speaker 4 (57:50):
I moved in with her. That's kind of hard, yeah, trials.
Speaker 9 (57:54):
Yeah, the thing about her and and just to give
you a background of why I moved, So, she approached
me the weekend after I got there and said, hey,
shol knocked to my door and I talked to you
for a second. I said sure, And she moved in
with her boyfriend and they were engaged, okay, and she said, hey,
I just wanted to let you know that.
Speaker 4 (58:13):
Scott and I went to Vegas last weekend.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
To type it up and I.
Speaker 9 (58:16):
Was like really, She was like, yeah, we've told me one,
but we didn't want to live and sin, so we're
gonna And she had already been zealed in the temple
once and was waiting for her cancel.
Speaker 8 (58:24):
Her to whatever, yeah, to be canceled.
Speaker 9 (58:28):
So they were gonna have a civil wedding on the
beach in Oregon, and they did that the following at
the following weekend. She told me that on a Monday
or Tuesday. It was the beginning of the week, and
she said, the reason I'm telling you that is because
I'm getting married this weekend and I have to go
out of town a few days ahead of Scott, you know,
and make arrangements. And now that he's a married man,
(58:48):
we don't feel it's right that you be here in
the house, She thought, I don't want to in convenience.
Is there any way you can stay with somebody else
or just find another place. At the time, I was
waiting on a house in Gilbert because I already knew
they were getting married, so kind of looking anyway. And
there was a great girl named Branda, and she was
waiting on her keys for the words to go through.
And it was a great war and it was a
great house.
Speaker 8 (59:07):
And it was a brand new.
Speaker 4 (59:09):
Construction and all that was really nice.
Speaker 9 (59:11):
But she didn't get her keys from months and months.
I think she's in the house now, but I don't know.
Speaker 8 (59:15):
I haven't talked to her.
Speaker 4 (59:17):
So I scrambled. I went to the institute. I wrote
down a bunch of phone numbers.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
I called 'em all, a lot of 'em.
Speaker 4 (59:23):
I got voicemails. One girl that answered.
Speaker 9 (59:26):
Her name was Tiffany, and she knew Travis and she
was at his services in Arizona and.
Speaker 4 (59:32):
As well, and we've just remained friends sort of.
Speaker 9 (59:34):
Like on MySpace and Facebook and that kind of thing.
But she said, hey, sorry, that's an outdated posting. I
for opt to get down and go to this website,
so Elliot's.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
Housing dot in net.
Speaker 4 (59:42):
I went there.
Speaker 13 (59:43):
I couldn't made.
Speaker 9 (59:43):
Three phone calls for the places that were within my
price range. I didn't think to look where they were.
Speaker 3 (59:49):
The one girl that called me.
Speaker 4 (59:50):
Back, her name is Shannon Derecott.
Speaker 9 (59:51):
She said, here's my place, here's the directions.
Speaker 4 (59:53):
Go ahead and go out and come see the house.
Speaker 9 (59:55):
It was available, so we did, Oh, go ahead, you
have to, okay, So I moved out there, and when
Travis found out it was so close to.
Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
Him, and you freaked out about it. And I made
sure to check that.
Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
It wasn't that we wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (01:00:11):
Be in the same word, and.
Speaker 9 (01:00:12):
It was within his ward boundaries, but it was also
within another single's word boundary, So.
Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
Of course I might go the other order because it would.
Speaker 8 (01:00:18):
Just be kind of weird.
Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
I mean, I didn't know about him.
Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
And Lisa.
Speaker 7 (01:00:24):
Refresh your recollection tactic.
Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Yes, what was that?
Speaker 7 (01:00:28):
Okay at the very end there she says she didn't
know about him, And Lisa, did you hear that?
Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Yes? I heard that.
Speaker 7 (01:00:35):
Okay, based on your investigation, who is that reference to?
Speaker 13 (01:00:43):
Might have been a girlfriend? I guess Travis's or something
is his name?
Speaker 7 (01:00:47):
Lisa andrews ring a bell that sounds familiar. Okay, she
was interviewed in power of your investigation.
Speaker 13 (01:00:54):
Right, I don't remember she might have been. We talked
to a lot of people.
Speaker 7 (01:01:01):
Okay, you talked about and you've heard other witnesses talk
about this mysterious email that she received. So you don't
remember talking to her now, this so called threatening email
tires slashing. You don't remember that now?
Speaker 13 (01:01:16):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (01:01:17):
I do remember, Okay, okay, and that was Lisa Andrews, right, Yes,
I believe so okay, And in your investigation you came
to understand that mister Alexander, and I'll use the word dating,
was dating Miss Andrews and miss Areus at the same time.
Speaker 6 (01:01:35):
Is that correct?
Speaker 17 (01:01:37):
I don't remember the specifics, and you're going to have
to talk to Lisa about I don't remember.
Speaker 8 (01:01:41):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (01:01:53):
And we also saw you in the course of these
interviews said you told miss arius that you don't think
she planted something.
Speaker 8 (01:02:03):
Got out of control.
Speaker 7 (01:02:04):
Correct?
Speaker 13 (01:02:04):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (01:02:05):
Is that more technique? Yeah, checking that up to technique. Okay.
You also said you do not see a cold blooded
murder again, is that going to be technique?
Speaker 13 (01:02:18):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (01:02:22):
During one of these interviews or your interview on the
fifteenth one of the clips, miss Arias said to you
no reason she would ever want to hurt Travis arm Travis,
and your comment was, I don't think you ever wanted
to more technique?
Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 7 (01:02:46):
Now, these techniques they're very specific for interrogations. Correct, they're
not too specific. Well, they're for interviewing and interrogating suspects. Right,
it's a little We talked about the difference. Yes, it's
techniques that you employ on a suspect. Yes, okay. So
when you were interviewed, and we talked earlier, that you
(01:03:08):
were interviewed by a news program CBS forty eight hours, right, yes, okay,
and you would then have no need to employ any
of these tactics when you're being interviewed by a reporter, right, No, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
So if you.
Speaker 7 (01:03:26):
Repeated some of these same techniques when you were engaged
in that interview with CBS, or you said some of
these things, that wouldn't be.
Speaker 13 (01:03:35):
Techniques, right, No, it wouldn't be technique.
Speaker 7 (01:03:38):
It wouldn't be techniques you have no reason to use.
So why would you say some of these same things?
Speaker 17 (01:03:43):
Some of the techniques I believed some of them were.
Speaker 7 (01:03:47):
I believe they're not all techniques. Some of them are
what you believed, right.
Speaker 13 (01:03:51):
Techniques are some truths that you do believe.
Speaker 17 (01:03:54):
And at that point, when I was interviewing her, I
was just kind of reaching at things.
Speaker 13 (01:03:58):
I didn't know where she was going with this, okay,
And of course.
Speaker 17 (01:04:01):
I would reach out and try to figure out where
she's coming from.
Speaker 7 (01:04:06):
And this interview you had with the correspondent for forty
eight hours and CBS. That was subsequent to the July
fifteenth and July sixteenth, the interviews you did with Miss Areas. Correct, Yes,
it was okay, several months correct, Yes, And I wanted
(01:04:28):
to clear up something as well. You had several interviews
with Miss Areas. We've heard snippets or portions of phone
calls that began the day that you arrived on the scene,
or perhaps the day after, and many throughout the course
of your investigation. Right, maybe half dozen or so.
Speaker 13 (01:04:51):
I don't remember the exact number, but that.
Speaker 7 (01:04:53):
Sound about right. There's a few, okay, during any of
those times. Did she tell you that she worked at
some place called Marguerite Belle?
Speaker 5 (01:05:03):
I don't remember.
Speaker 7 (01:05:04):
She told you all along, as she did in there,
that she worked at a place called Casa Ramos.
Speaker 5 (01:05:08):
Isn't that correct?
Speaker 13 (01:05:09):
I remember during one interview she mentioned Ramos. I'd never
heard of it before.
Speaker 7 (01:05:16):
Now, going back to what we said before about your
training on deception. Before lunch, we talked about how there's
an element of truth in a lie to make it plausible. Right, Yes,
let me run back over then. Some of the things
(01:05:38):
in this last snippet.
Speaker 6 (01:05:40):
We saw.
Speaker 7 (01:05:43):
Over yesterday and today. She told you a story about
intruders entering the home. Right, yes, she did, on one male,
one female, right, yes okay. And during this story, and
we heard her say that she ran into a closet, correct,
(01:06:04):
yes okay. And we also heard her say that Travis
was shot was still alive, correct, yes okay. And she
also mentioned and she even physically indicated that she got
hit on the back of the head, right yes okay.
And she also said that there was a knife involved
(01:06:27):
and a gun involved. Right, yes, she did, okay. And
in her story of the two intruders, the female half
was the aggressor.
Speaker 18 (01:06:40):
Right.
Speaker 7 (01:06:41):
She did the shooting, She did a lot of the activity, right.
Speaker 13 (01:06:45):
Yes, that's what she told me.
Speaker 7 (01:06:51):
She also said that he was bleeding everywhere, right yes,
and he being referring to Travis, right yes. And she
also said that she was wearing stripe pants, right yes
she did, okay. She said she was scared, right yes,
(01:07:14):
freaked out.
Speaker 5 (01:07:14):
Of her mind?
Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
Right.
Speaker 6 (01:07:17):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (01:07:19):
I have no further questions.
Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Redirect with regard to this issue of techniques. She were
asked about that on your cross examination, all those techniques
work out for you during this interview, not very well.
Why do you say that they didn't work out very
well for you.
Speaker 13 (01:07:39):
I never got the truth.
Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 13 (01:07:44):
She never really told me the truth about.
Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Well, what did you tell you initially?
Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
That?
Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Was she there or not?
Speaker 13 (01:07:49):
No?
Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Is that the truth?
Speaker 9 (01:07:51):
No?
Speaker 18 (01:07:52):
It was not.
Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
She also told you a story about two people doing it.
Is that the same story as the one that she
told you before?
Speaker 13 (01:08:00):
No, that was a completely different story.
Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
And she was there on this one, right on the
second one she told you right? Yes, And is that
what she has Is that the story that she has
kept to or is there a different story now?
Speaker 13 (01:08:15):
It's a different story now she says she was there
and she did it.
Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
So again, these techniques that you're using, how many tell
me a little bit more about your training on these techniques?
Speaker 17 (01:08:29):
Approximately forty fifty hours of training for interview interrogation.
Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
And with regard to these techniques that you used in
this case. Given what you know that she now says
she did it. Did they work at all?
Speaker 13 (01:08:45):
No?
Speaker 5 (01:08:45):
Not really?
Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
When you say not really, it applies that they did.
How did they work? You tell me how they work?
Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
Well?
Speaker 13 (01:08:51):
There were some truths in there, but the majority of
it and.
Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Some truths you don't know which is true, which isn't right,
do you? No?
Speaker 13 (01:08:58):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
She told you this I an interview, that the shot
was first, right, yes, And she told you that the
shot was first, and that the shot was first by
somebody else, not her, right, Yes, correct, And you indicated
to me just now, well there was some truth to it.
Is that something that you believed at the time that
she told you that the shot was first?
Speaker 13 (01:09:18):
Yes? I actually did believe that.
Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
And is that the position that you adopted after she
told you that?
Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
Is that your position that you had when you spoke
to doctor Kevin Horn in anticipation of whatever hearing you
were going to have.
Speaker 13 (01:09:38):
Over old Yes, I maintained that belief.
Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
And when you spoke to him, did you speak to
him about what your belief was at that time when
you spoke to.
Speaker 13 (01:09:49):
Doctor Horn, No, not really.
Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
And did you speak about that you believed doctor Horne,
that you believed, based on a conversation with a defendant
and on your techniques, that you thought the shot was first.
Speaker 13 (01:10:03):
I didn't have that conversation with doctor Warren.
Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
And when you testified the day after, were you testifying
based at least in part on what the defendant told
you as to what came first, Yes, and that was
what what did you tell you came.
Speaker 13 (01:10:17):
First, that the shot came first.
Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
She also did tell you other things that there was
blood and that sort of thing.
Speaker 9 (01:10:24):
Right.
Speaker 18 (01:10:25):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
You were asked about this issue about whether or not
you believed that she was out of control, she was
a cold blood of murder, did something she didn't want to.
Is that what you believe or is that something that
you used to try to perhaps get up the truth
in this case? Why did you use those phrases? Sir?
Speaker 13 (01:10:51):
It was part of my technique to try to figure
out what happened.
Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
You were asked about whether or not you went on
forty eight hours. Do you remember that?
Speaker 8 (01:10:58):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
And you were asked about having spoken to them, right, Yes,
And you were asked about whether or not there was
a technique that was involved with regard to forty eight hours. Right.
Speaker 5 (01:11:09):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
You've also viewed other interviews people that gave interviews to
forty eight hours, right, Yes, I have the interview between
the defendant and forty eight hours.
Speaker 7 (01:11:28):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
And with regard to the story that she gave there,
did it differ from the second story that she gave
you in huge amounts? The story that she gave you
on July sixteenth of two thousand and eight, the second story, Yes,
the second story.
Speaker 13 (01:11:46):
No, not much at all.
Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
You were asked about the July sixteenth, two thousand and
eight statement that she gave you about who was the aggressor,
whether or not the female was the aggressor, and that
sort of thing. Do you remember that line of questioning?
Speaker 13 (01:12:01):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
With regard to what she told you, did she ever
tell you that somebody held a gun to her head
during during this interluder? During this incident, yes, Who did
she say put the gun to her head?
Speaker 13 (01:12:16):
The mail?
Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
And what did the mail do with regard to the
gun after he put it to her head let her go?
Speaker 13 (01:12:24):
Eventually?
Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
And with regard to did she ever tell you of
anybody looking in her purse? Did she ever discuss that
with you during that interview?
Speaker 13 (01:12:32):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
And what did she say with regard to who was
the person that actually looked in her purse?
Speaker 13 (01:12:37):
The mail?
Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
So, in terms of this case, did she ever say
who did the shooting? Did she ever tell you if
she saw who actually? In her story who did the
shooting or who shot mister Alexander. No, and this is
the same person this story about who's the aggressor. Was
this the same person that told you that previously she
(01:13:01):
wasn't there?
Speaker 15 (01:13:02):
Yes, I don't have anything else, anything else, mister Jeremy,
these forty eight hour interviews of miss Arias, you've seem
to have a pretty good memory of them.
Speaker 7 (01:13:15):
Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (01:13:16):
Somewhat?
Speaker 6 (01:13:17):
Okay?
Speaker 7 (01:13:20):
She did the interviewer didn't ask all the same questions
you did.
Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
Did she?
Speaker 13 (01:13:26):
I wasn't there. I don't know. I only saw what
was captured on camera.
Speaker 7 (01:13:29):
You saw what was on camera, Okay. As far as
what was captured on camera, did you see? Did the
interviewer use the exact same script that you did?
Speaker 8 (01:13:41):
No?
Speaker 7 (01:13:42):
No, she asked more questions right, different questions. Yes, she
asked miss Arias that she said that this looked like
a classic case of domestic violence, didn't she?
Speaker 13 (01:13:54):
I don't recall that.
Speaker 7 (01:13:55):
You don't recall that one.
Speaker 6 (01:13:56):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (01:13:57):
Let me see if you recall questions about mister Alexander
being abusive towards miss Arius, do you recall the interview
or asking her about that?
Speaker 13 (01:14:07):
No?
Speaker 6 (01:14:07):
I don't okay.
Speaker 7 (01:14:10):
And as it relates to miss Arias, I'm gonna guess
you don't remember. But there's miss Arius being mister Alexander's
booty call. You don't remember that, or do you?
Speaker 13 (01:14:24):
That's somewhat yes, I do.
Speaker 7 (01:14:25):
That's that's somewhat familiar, okay. And that they discussed the
idea that mister Alexander would call her late at night
requesting sexual favors. Do you remember that being discussed?
Speaker 17 (01:14:42):
No, I don't remember that.
Speaker 7 (01:14:44):
I don't remember that either. Okay, a moment, Jarnor you
told CBS that you thought this was a crime of passion, correct.
Speaker 6 (01:14:54):
No, I don't remember that.
Speaker 5 (01:14:56):
No.
Speaker 7 (01:14:57):
You also told them that something happened and and she
just snapped. Things got out of control, right.
Speaker 17 (01:15:04):
I remember saying things got out of control. That I
don't remember the actual context of it.
Speaker 5 (01:15:08):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (01:15:10):
That's all I have for now.
Speaker 15 (01:15:13):
Anything else, mister Martinez, with regard to those comments that
you may have made, were those comments based in part
home with and tendivility?
Speaker 12 (01:15:23):
Yes, they wouldn't have anything answer.
Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, I have some questions from you.
It looks like we have another question. Any other questions
for this witness council, please approach all right, detective, the
jurors have some questions for you for you. Were there
any sets of knives that appeared to be missing a knife.
Speaker 13 (01:15:51):
No, we didn't find anything like that.
Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Was the gun that was used to kill mister Alexander
found in miss arias possess?
Speaker 13 (01:16:01):
No it was not.
Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
Why were the fibers found at the scene, sandals and
pillows not sent out to compare them?
Speaker 17 (01:16:11):
We didn't feel it was necessary at that time.
Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
When you personally interviewed mister Alexander's roommates, was there ever
a mention of their concern for his extended absence June
four through June nine?
Speaker 17 (01:16:28):
No, they believed he was in Mexico already, didn't know
his schedule.
Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
What were the alibis given by those roommates?
Speaker 17 (01:16:40):
One was working and the other was actually staying at
his girlfriend's home and they were house sitting for her.
Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Did mister Alexander have a boarder or another person living
in the house.
Speaker 13 (01:16:54):
No, just the two.
Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Were the fingerprints the border taken to see if they
matched any at the scene, yes, they were. With regard
to the knife or gun, was mister Alexander's old BMW.
Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
Searched, No, it was not.
Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Any other questions from the jury.
Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Follow up from the state, mister Jeremy, I did.
Speaker 12 (01:17:27):
A couple of questions.
Speaker 7 (01:17:31):
Is roommates from mister Alexander's I think can you mention
that the other day, Enrique Cortez? And I'm sorry, could
you refresh my memory on the other one? Was it
Zach Billings?
Speaker 13 (01:17:45):
Was that Zach Billings?
Speaker 7 (01:17:48):
And they were both living with mister Alexander at.
Speaker 13 (01:17:50):
The time, right, yes, okay?
Speaker 7 (01:17:53):
And did your investigation reveal whether or not uh, mister
Billings or mister Cortes knew that Jodiarius was coming for
a visit.
Speaker 13 (01:18:06):
They did not know she was coming for a visit.
Speaker 7 (01:18:09):
And based on your investigation, did you obtain any knowledge
that either mister Cortes or mister Billings were warned against
this so called dangerous.
Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Stalker to call the cops if she showed up overworld.
Speaker 13 (01:18:27):
I had no such information, no information.
Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Thank you, detective.
Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
You may step down.
Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
All right, Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take
the evening recess at this time. Please be back in
the designated area downstairs meeting Room A at ten twenty
five tomorrow morning, and we will start promptly at ten thirty.
Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
Please remember the admunition have a nice evening.
Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
You are excused.
Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Jury has left the courtroom, Miss Wilmot, mister Nurman, do
you have any additional materials for me to review?
Speaker 8 (01:19:13):
I did?
Speaker 6 (01:19:14):
We have.
Speaker 12 (01:19:16):
Two Saysus transcripts in.
Speaker 7 (01:19:18):
The copy center to review. I know earlier the states
that he wanted to make a record, so we once
he's done doing that, we can bring them to the court.
I'm assuming court hasn't read everything else already, so once
if he wants to make his record, then we will
submit those transcripts afterwards.
Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
Do you want to make your record today or tomorrow?
Speaker 3 (01:19:39):
I do it right now, I have it right, right,
get it done?
Speaker 4 (01:19:42):
All right? Me just get my notes.
Speaker 3 (01:19:45):
May proceed regard to the issue of the text messages, and
I'm citing the transcript dated June eighteenth, twenty ten before
Duncan and the person that is testifying, Michael Melendez. Last
(01:20:07):
on the item sees was a cell phone pocket PC, right,
We've talked about that before, and he answered yes. The
question was okay, so you know to which item on
referring to? And he answered, is that mister Alexander's phone?
The answer was yes, and then he said yes. The
question was okay, you looked at that phone, you powered
(01:20:27):
it on? Correct? The answer yes, And did you or
did you not find text messages on there? His answer
I did. Question okay, you did, and the answer yes.
Question did you read those messages, the content, the verbiage?
His answer was yes, okay. And what do you recall
(01:20:48):
of that was the question. His answer, I don't have
any recollections specifically, I know I did note some of
them in my report. The answer, okay, were you able
to download those messages from the set tee pocket PC?
He answered I was not. He was asked describe for
us why you weren't able to do that. He said,
(01:21:08):
at the time, I did not have any software that
would give me the capability of doing that, and then
he talks about it in other portions of this particular transcript.
But it does indicate that this issue involving the text
messages has already been discussed, and that Detective Melendus has
(01:21:31):
already indicated that he was unable to download the text
messages from mister Alexander's telephone because the technology for the
software wasn't available. That's what he testified to in the
argument that was presented to you previously. After the person
from Verizon testified, he and the person from Verizon. Jody
(01:21:53):
Citizen indicated that they didn't keep these text messages other
than two or three days, and defense counsel sort of
sattled on that and said, well, see they were there
and the state just wouldn't turn them over to us.
Speaker 4 (01:22:09):
This.
Speaker 3 (01:22:09):
I would like to mark this as an exhibit and
have you read it. There's other references to this. It
also talks about the email messages and what happened, and
I asked that you consider that with regard to the
present emotion evolvement success. I do as all.
Speaker 4 (01:22:26):
Right, that document will be marked as.
Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
An exhibit and admitted for purposes of.
Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
A court ruling on emotion for mistrial.
Speaker 6 (01:22:38):
It maybe being.
Speaker 12 (01:22:39):
Pluss, we're certainly not objected to that.
Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
We do have the other testimony of.
Speaker 7 (01:22:46):
As well, and that's what will be furnishing to the
court later. I can't recall the dates, the specific dates,
but there were other hearings and we'll be providing those transcas.
Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
All right, do you want further argument on.
Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
This request for mistrial?
Speaker 7 (01:23:04):
Just the only thing I would make note of as
it relates to this in terms of misconduct. The prosecutor,
when I raised this issue, went forward and said, oh,
you know, I think that all Hispanic names must sound
alike applying on racist that I'm being insincere about my efforts,
(01:23:25):
so that I'm not very smart. I think that's demonstrative
of the idea that the Emperor.
Speaker 12 (01:23:32):
Has no close here.
Speaker 7 (01:23:33):
Judge, there is a contradictory testimony he's elicited. I let
the transcerts speak for themselves, but I point those things
out because that's an additional instances of misconduct that's inappropriate
on the part of this prosecution and should not be
tolerated by this court.
Speaker 12 (01:23:51):
And that's all I have to say on that. I
do have one more record.
Speaker 8 (01:23:54):
To make and then we will do.
Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
Mister Martine, Yesterday defen Council requested that an item that
had been in the possession and available for the last
since approximately July two thousand and eight, and available for
inspection we finally or be turned over to the operance.
Is the first request that was ever made. It involved
(01:24:19):
Mason Police Departmental Item number four zero eight to seventh,
which is a camera.
Speaker 18 (01:24:26):
Ostensibly, it belonged to the defendant and was seized from
one of the homes that was searched up in Mardbreak
to California I had that marked as exhibit number.
Speaker 3 (01:24:38):
Three sixty four. The request was made before lunch, the
item was brought over during the lunch hour. I had
it marked as exhibit number three sixty four and it
was released to the defendant yesterday after their request. The
other issue involved there was a witness by the name
(01:24:58):
of Gus Searcy that was just the.
Speaker 8 (01:25:01):
Noticed.
Speaker 4 (01:25:03):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:25:03):
I think it was noticed either Monday or Tuesday, maybe
Wednesday this week. I just I know it's this week.
I'm not asking for preclusion, but I'm asking for consideration.
For my consideration is that he made available in Phoenix
for my interview, uh, during this highatus.
Speaker 8 (01:25:20):
That we will be taking.
Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
So I asked that he'd be ordered during the next
week to be made available.
Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
Mister Rmy, do you wish to be heard?
Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
Why?
Speaker 8 (01:25:32):
Uh?
Speaker 7 (01:25:33):
Yes, the recitation of the facts regarding the camera, just.
Speaker 6 (01:25:40):
For the record is accurate.
Speaker 12 (01:25:41):
My expert picked it up from your clerk.
Speaker 6 (01:25:45):
Yesterday.
Speaker 8 (01:25:46):
I believe it was.
Speaker 12 (01:25:49):
As it relates to mister sears Uh.
Speaker 7 (01:25:51):
For the reasons we've stated, the next party.
Speaker 8 (01:25:54):
Would believe it that.
Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
The court will take these states request to interview mister
circiandra advisement and will rule in the future on that request,
mister Jermy.
Speaker 12 (01:26:07):
The only other issue I have is that.
Speaker 7 (01:26:12):
Yesterday we were given the understanding that the state would
be calling Lisa Andrews. She was known as Andrews at
the time. My understanding now is her last name is Diodone.
The information we have on her, at least in terms
of her telephone number is probably at eve at least
a year, if not.
Speaker 8 (01:26:33):
More so old.
Speaker 12 (01:26:34):
So we were asking if the state provides.
Speaker 7 (01:26:36):
Us with that contact information and that any subpoena issued.
Speaker 8 (01:26:39):
To hurry me.
Speaker 3 (01:26:42):
She called me during the break and uh I spoke
to her.
Speaker 8 (01:26:50):
I w I will call.
Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
Her, and if she wants me to facilitate this contact,
I will. If she wants to speak with the defense
attorney directly, that's fine with me. I will take care
of it today. I'll call her as soon as this
is done. I don't know if the question was being asked,
but just so that there is no question about it
later because memory's faith, including mine, The reason I did
(01:27:16):
not call her involved this issue of the stalking. I
know that defense counsel spoke about stalking and opening statement,
and I also know that Mimi Hall or Marie Hall
spoke about it, saying that when she came to the door,
she was speaking with her mother because she was afraid
of a stalker. We never made any or we never
(01:27:38):
indicated that the stalker was the defendant. That information came
from Defense Council. In opening statement, mister Adonia is going
would have testified. And I'm concerned that should there be
a conviction, I'm not saying there's going to be that
an issue like that is so inflammay that some court
(01:28:03):
may say something to the effect that wealth the jury
could have possibly considered this improper evidence of stalking in
their decision and may have been inflamed under four one, four,
two and four three. I know that the defendant has
(01:28:24):
not moved in Linny to do this, but this is
more of a self governing move on my part.
Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
What mister a.
Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
Donated would have testified, and what she told me about
was that she spent it was December of two thousand
and seven that she spent some time with mister Alexander
at her house. It was raining, and that when they
were inside the house, so there was a knock at
(01:28:50):
the door and they went outside to look. And this
was during the time when the defendant was living in town.
She went outside and mister Alexander's tires were slashed. He
then got to replace the next day. He came back
the next day and his tire, and then again somebody
came to the door his tires were again slashed. And
(01:29:15):
at some other point, maybe the next day, her tires
were slashed. The tires on her car were slashed. She
when they were inside. After finding that her tires had
been slashed, she was concerned that her safety was at risk,
(01:29:36):
and she would she asked mister Alexander to spend the
night with her. She would have testified that they did
not have any sexual contact that night, but he did
stay the night. The next day, and she remembers the
day as December eighth of two thousand and seven, she
received a letter from supposedly the stalker, but it came
(01:30:03):
from a John Doe accusing her of a number of
religiously based sins such as you're an unworthy horror things
like that, or and so my view is that if
I introduce that type of evidence, or if somehow that
(01:30:23):
finds itself into the record, there is a strong potential,
in my view that somebody who may review these proceedings
would find that the conviction may have been tainted under
four one, four, two, and four and three. So that's
the reason why I chose not to call her. I
just don't want to run that risk right there are.
Speaker 8 (01:30:47):
I believe.
Speaker 3 (01:30:49):
The state's.
Speaker 7 (01:30:53):
So called concern is ultimately disingenuous because or you or
the evidence will show.
Speaker 12 (01:31:00):
First of all, you know, I don't need the advice.
Speaker 8 (01:31:04):
From him, and.
Speaker 12 (01:31:08):
There is exculpatory evidence.
Speaker 8 (01:31:10):
We've also that missus.
Speaker 7 (01:31:11):
Andrews or Diodone has to offer she was dating mister
Alexander at the same time that he was sleeping with
my client. The other issue is that there has been
evidence of her as a quote unquote stalker that the
state has elicited. So I believe it's disingenuous.
Speaker 3 (01:31:34):
I believe I'm.
Speaker 12 (01:31:34):
Within my I mean, he's basically.
Speaker 7 (01:31:36):
Trying to imply that there'll be an iac claim somewhere
down the road.
Speaker 12 (01:31:42):
Let the chips fall where they may.
Speaker 7 (01:31:43):
But strategically, we believe the position is that calling her
as a witness.
Speaker 12 (01:31:48):
Is appropriate and we intend to do so.
Speaker 7 (01:31:50):
So I don't know if he's asking for preclusion or
what exactly.
Speaker 12 (01:31:54):
The state's motion is, but we fully intend to do
it and to request the information I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:32:00):
Gonna asking Brady. I'll just sort of indicating for the
record why I'm not sure it's a good idea that
she'd be called. All he needs to do is to
give me a day and time, and I will inform
her of the dating time that she needs to be here.
I know that that may not be something that he
can do to right now, but I will call her.
I will speak to her today and I will indicate
to her that she is still under the ammunition and
(01:32:24):
that she is not to watch anything, just do anything
with regard to or speak to anybody with regard to
this case, and that she is going to be asked
to come.
Speaker 6 (01:32:34):
Down and testify.
Speaker 3 (01:32:35):
I will say that she has been reluctant about testifying,
and that's the reason why I indicated that I would
act as an intermediary. If they don't want me to
do that, I'm fine, but I will make a call
to let her know that she probably will be contacted
in the future.
Speaker 8 (01:32:53):
But if they want me to do it, I'll do.
Speaker 4 (01:32:55):
She's a new sing him.
Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
She is a all right, yes, and he will do
that today.
Speaker 8 (01:33:02):
Alright, you'll do that.
Speaker 15 (01:33:03):
I will give him progress or call it bestress, anything.
Speaker 1 (01:33:07):
Else for the record today.
Speaker 3 (01:33:09):
Nope, address alright, so.
Speaker 7 (01:33:13):
Ordered, And whether Corpie that once we come up with
the transcripts of the courses of the Unlocked, or.
Speaker 8 (01:33:18):
Would you like us to take him to you really
do to change.
Speaker 1 (01:33:23):
You can bring them here and she'll bring them up
to me. Fair, Okay, thank you for journed.
All right, let's bring in.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
The jury, the jury, the defendant and all council.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Mister Martinez called.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Michael GALIERTI.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
Can you still your last name?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Please?
Speaker 5 (00:17):
G A L I E T.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
I sure, right hand?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You do so, swear the testimony you're about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
So help you guys, please.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Walk right around here and.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
Have a seat.
Speaker 6 (00:33):
Your name, sir, Michael Galletti?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
And who do you work for?
Speaker 6 (00:40):
I work for the city of the City of Cottonwood Heights,
Cottonwood Heights Police Department.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
And are you a police officer?
Speaker 6 (00:47):
I am a police officer.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
How long have you worked with the Cottonwood Heights Police.
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Department Four and a half years?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
And what state is Cottonwood Heights The state of Utah.
And prior to working with the Cottonwood Heights Police Department,
did you work for another police department?
Speaker 6 (01:06):
Yes, I worked for the West Jordan Police Department in Utah.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
And in June of two thousand and eight, what were
your duties with the West Jordan Police Department.
Speaker 6 (01:17):
In June of two thousand and eight, I was an
officer police officer for West Jordan Police Department. I was
working community policing and patrol.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And as a patrol officer. Did you ride a bike,
a motorcycle or a car? This is in June.
Speaker 6 (01:38):
Yes, I had a car with a bicycle on the
back of the car.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And on June fifth of two and eight, did you
have occasion to be on duty?
Speaker 6 (01:50):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
And on that particular day, sometime around noon, did you
make a traffic stop?
Speaker 6 (01:58):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
What time was it? I know, I said, shortly afternoon?
But do you remember the exact time that the traffic
stop was made?
Speaker 6 (02:07):
Just afternoon twelve oh two three?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
And where was the traffic stop? Where did you make
the traffic stop?
Speaker 6 (02:14):
On a Redwood Road in West Jordan southbound?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And what kind of car did you stop?
Speaker 6 (02:23):
As I recall, it was a white car, a Ford Focus.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And what was the reason that you stopped this Ford Focus?
Speaker 6 (02:32):
I saw that the rear license played on the car
was mounted upside down, and.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
So you pulled the car over? And what happened? Explain
to me what happened.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
I approached the vehicle as I normally do on a
traffic stop, introduced myself and indicated the reason for the.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Stop and the person who was the driver? Who is that.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
I understand the driver is Jody Harius.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Is this individual in court today?
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Yes, I believe so.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And tell me where she is seated and what she is.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Wearing as she is seated at the defendant's table wearing
black on the far left.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
You're going to read the record reflect the identification of
the defendant. Yes, sir. One of the things that you
just told us was that, well, I was a patrol officer,
and I assume that you made numerous traffic stops back
then and even now right typically, Yes, And how is
it that, as you sit here today, which is many
years later, that you remember this particular traffic stop.
Speaker 6 (03:44):
I've been a police officer more than thirteen years, almost
fourteen years, and I've only made one stop for a
vehicle with an upside down license plate.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And that's this case here.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yes, So you go up to the defendant, miss Air,
Do you speak with her or what happens after you
tell her the reason for the stop? What did she say?
Speaker 6 (04:06):
I asked why the license plate was on upside down?
And as I recall, she said, oh, my friends must
be playing a joke on me.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Does Utah require the front license plate to be on
also or not?
Speaker 6 (04:22):
Yes, front and back.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Do you remember the license plate on the car? Do
you remember what state was involved?
Speaker 6 (04:29):
As I recall, it was a California license plate.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
And while you made the stop, did you see whether
or not there were any other cars that may have
been associated with that of the defendants stopping anywhere? Did
you see another car there?
Speaker 6 (04:44):
As I do recall, there was a second vehicle that
pulled over after I stopped the white Ford Focus?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And where did it pull over?
Speaker 6 (04:54):
If I'm not mistaken, it was in front of the
car that I stopped the Ford Focus?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And what was the defendant's demeanor, the driver's demeanor when
you were talking to her about this license plate issue
in the back?
Speaker 6 (05:09):
Demeanor? Pleasant? I think surprised that the license to learn
that the license plate was improperly displayed.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
And did she seem at all upset about anything at
the time.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
I didn't notice anything unusual other than a little surprised
to find that her license.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Plate was upside down, And that's based on her comment
that she told you about that somebody's playing a joke
on her. Yes, did she indicate or did you talk
to her about what you wanted her to do with
regard to the license plate.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
Well, as I recall, everything appeared to be in order otherwise,
and I just asked if she could correct that.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
And about how long was this traffic stop?
Speaker 6 (06:00):
I'd say it was fairly brief, two to three minutes.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And did you give her a citation for this up?
Speaker 6 (06:05):
I did not. It was just a verbal warning and.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
This was on.
Speaker 6 (06:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I don't have any other questions.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Thank you, cross examination.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
Good morning, A good morning.
Speaker 7 (06:22):
Was there when you made this traffic stop? You mentioned
that it was for you noticed the license plate was
upside down?
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Correct?
Speaker 7 (06:29):
Yes, So there weren't any other traffic violations or anything
else that would have motivated you to pull this car
over that time that I recall, No, okay, and have
you reviewed your report recently? With there would have been
documented in your report if there was any other reason.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
No, I would not have made a written documentation. There
would be a radio log created by the dispatch agency.
Speaker 7 (06:59):
But you don't recall any other reason other than.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
The license plate being upside down.
Speaker 7 (07:03):
Just the license plate and that caught your attention. Yes,
do you remember where you were as in relation to
this ford focus when this license plate caught your attention?
Speaker 6 (07:18):
Well, what I recall is that I was southbound on
Redwood Road, which is a main artery road in that community,
and it's typical that I would be looking at license
plates looking for expired tags, so it would not be
(07:39):
unusual to see something. I mean, it would not be
unusual that I'd initiate a stop on something as unusual
as an upside down license plate.
Speaker 7 (07:49):
I understand that, and maybe I should be more specific
with my question. I was asking where you were located
specifically in comparison to the ford Focus. Were you in
a behind it? Were you in a lane to the
side of it?
Speaker 6 (08:02):
How did you make this observation of the license I
can't say specifically I was behind the Ford Focus. Redwood
Road has probably three lanes in each direction and a
center safety lane. I can't say which lane I was in,
and I can't say today which lane the ford Focus
(08:24):
was in.
Speaker 7 (08:25):
Okay, do you remember there? You said it's a three
lane road. Is that three on each side or is
it three altogether?
Speaker 6 (08:31):
Three southbound and three northbound?
Speaker 7 (08:33):
Pretty busy road then, right, yes, Okay, several cars on
the road.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
Typically at that time of day, there would have been
moderate traffic.
Speaker 7 (08:44):
Okay, so this must have been something pretty eye catching
to you, right, seeing this license played upside down? Yes,
it stood out to you amongst all this other traffic
and all these other things on the.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
Road, I'd say, yes, okay.
Speaker 7 (08:59):
And as a matter of fact, you told us that
that was the only stop of that nature you'd made
in I believe thirteen years of patrol.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Is that correct.
Speaker 6 (09:09):
I don't recall ever seeing a license plate displayed upside
down on a car operating on the road. Okay.
Speaker 7 (09:17):
And you also described miss Arius's demeanor as being surprised.
Speaker 6 (09:25):
Well, she said, oh, my friends must have been playing
a trick on me.
Speaker 7 (09:28):
Was there anything else about it other than what she said?
Was she anything about it?
Speaker 6 (09:33):
Was?
Speaker 7 (09:34):
She looked surprised that you pulled her over before you
started conversing with her.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Not that I recall. She was pleasant, as I recall
pleasant positive exchange.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
Okay, Well, thank.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
You, sir.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Any redirect.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
In terms of whether or not the license plate stood out,
wasn't it wasn't it your job to look for that
sort of thing back then?
Speaker 6 (09:58):
Most certainly, Yes, operative improper display of a license plate
would be a violation.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
And you look at that as part of your job, right, yes,
And you were asked whether or not there was a
report that was written in this case. And you asked one, O,
there's a traffic blog, remember saying something about that.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
I believe, I said a radiologue.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Radiologue? And what's the difference between the police report and
a radiologue.
Speaker 6 (10:22):
A radiologue is automatically created by the dispatch service, which
is Valley Emergency Communications Center. And a police report is
a report that I would write, Yeah, Exhibit three, yes,
as indicates of West Jordan Police. That that's the radiologue
(10:45):
I'm referencing.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I don't have any other questions, any questions from the
jury for this witness. I see no hands, thank you,
may step down. The state may call it's next witness.
Speaker 8 (10:57):
They called for a field Colombo.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Right up here?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Can you spell your first and last name?
Speaker 9 (11:07):
Please?
Speaker 6 (11:07):
Real? pH A E. L.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Columbos all of truth, nothing but the truth.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
So help you, guys, I.
Speaker 10 (11:17):
Do thank you.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
You have a.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Your name, sir? And uh? Where are your work sir?
Speaker 11 (11:30):
Devonzo Incorporated?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
And what kind of business?
Speaker 11 (11:33):
Uh is that the DBA budget rent a card?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
So are you the owner of this franchise?
Speaker 11 (11:42):
What it sounds like devon correct?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And what is it that where is this place located,
do you have more than one or do you have many?
Speaker 11 (11:50):
Admissible airport in reading California?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And what is the business of this budget place that
you have.
Speaker 11 (11:58):
Running vehicles, either leisure or business?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
And how long have you had this budget rent a
car business out and ready?
Speaker 11 (12:07):
Approximately five years?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And drawing your attention back to June second of two.
Speaker 8 (12:16):
Thousand and eight, did you have occasion.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
To be working?
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
How is it that the renting works just in theory
not as it applies to June second? How does it
work when a person comes in?
Speaker 5 (12:31):
There's a couple different ways. Either somebody will walk up
unannounced and ask for a vehicle without a reservation, or
they will call you on the phone and make a reservation,
and or go on the website and make a reservation
through one of the internet programs that offer rental cars.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
And in order to rent a car, what is required?
In other words from the person? I understand that money
will be eventually required, But what kind of identification is
a credit card required?
Speaker 8 (13:07):
What is required?
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Twenty one and over with a major credit card, valid
driver's license and twenty five and over if you're over,
if you're under twenty five years old and between twenty
one and twenty five. You'll need a major credit card
to runt a vehicle. If you are twenty five and older,
just the valid driver's license and a credit card.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Going back to June second of two thousand and eight,
did you have occasion to rent a car? And I'll
show you exhibit number two thirty five and see if
you recognize this in particular item.
Speaker 11 (13:54):
I do recognize it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
And were you the person who actually or the.
Speaker 8 (14:00):
Associated with that rental?
Speaker 5 (14:02):
I was?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
And is that a true effort copy of the car
that you rented back on June second of two thousand
and eight, and the time was what eight O four
in the morning?
Speaker 11 (14:13):
Eight ol four in the morning? This would be uh,
this would be accurate, alright?
Speaker 12 (14:18):
And is that the original that looks up to to
be an original?
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Or is it just a copy?
Speaker 5 (14:23):
This is the original?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Alright?
Speaker 8 (14:24):
I may have it, bet I remember for.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
The admission of exhibit number two thirty five, nor.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Georgian Kay thirty five is admitted, sir, I might take
it out.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Of its packaging so we can look. First of all,
there's three sheets. Is this what is you the paperwork
that you keep?
Speaker 9 (14:56):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
That's associated with each rental.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Yes, we'll keep those in copies.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
All right, let's take a look at the copy on.
First of all, there's the name here. Do you see that?
I do?
Speaker 11 (15:11):
What's the name Jody Arius?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
This is that the person that rented this car? Yes, sir,
is that person who rented the car? Is she in
court today?
Speaker 6 (15:20):
Yes, sir?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Tell me where she is seated? What she is wearing?
Speaker 5 (15:24):
She's dark hair in the black on the left hand
side of the desk, right there on my left.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Here made the record reflect the identification of the defendant? Yes,
with regard to this particular transaction. What was the miss
Arius's demeanor when she came up to rent this car
from you?
Speaker 11 (15:45):
Very pleasant?
Speaker 8 (15:48):
She go ahead?
Speaker 5 (15:49):
She had phoned a few times before requesting a vehicle,
and that'd be ready when she gets to the to
the counter.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
So she had actually called in, Yes, sir, How do
you know that she actually called it in?
Speaker 11 (16:03):
She stated her name okay.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
And you had answered the phone before as I did.
And when she called, did she request a specific car
or just said I need a car on this particular
date and time.
Speaker 11 (16:17):
Something dependable?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
When she showed up there, was she alone or was
she with somebody else.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
I saw a gentleman.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
So was it a guy?
Speaker 11 (16:32):
Yes, I've been sure if it was with her or not.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
But and when she was renting this car, why don't
you tell us what happened, what you said and what
she said?
Speaker 5 (16:42):
I had asked where she was going, and like I
do with all my customers, to get familiar with them.
So when it came I returned, she was going to
take a small, just go around town trip, nowhere big.
She did not want a car that was loud in color.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
For example, did you offer her a red car or not?
Speaker 11 (17:07):
I did it first.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And what did you say when you offered her a
red car?
Speaker 5 (17:12):
She would rather have a lighter car, wider color.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Did you tell you why?
Speaker 5 (17:16):
She did not?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
So she wanted a car that was not red. And
then what happened?
Speaker 5 (17:24):
Again? I asked her a little bit about who she was,
and she had mentioned she was single, but just coming
around town. She was very pleasant to speak to, very friendly.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
And she help or provided the information in this document correct?
Speaker 6 (17:49):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Well do you remember her hair color? Back then?
Speaker 5 (17:54):
It was blonde?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
And so this in form that's here is that provided
by the customer in this case, miss areas, The date
that she rented.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
It is right up here right that would be the
date rented, the June second at eight hundred are a
little over eight oh four.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Okay, And then it says, don do you see that
right there?
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (18:19):
I do.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I think we know what that means.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
What that means, but her her time of arrival back
to bring the car would have been June second at
also at eight fifteen June sixth, Is that, I mean,
excuse me, June sixth? Yes?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
And is this car the type that has unlimited miles?
In other words, a person can go anywhere they want.
What can you tell here?
Speaker 5 (18:47):
I could probably tell.
Speaker 11 (18:50):
And it should be unlimited miles?
Speaker 6 (18:52):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (18:53):
So is that right there unlimited?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
So if it's unlimited miles, the reason you were asking
her where she was going? Was it because of the
mileage issue or was it something else.
Speaker 11 (19:03):
Certain vehicles.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
That we get in.
Speaker 11 (19:08):
Might need an oil.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Change, and a certain they're they're they're they're to be
oil changed every so often, and if not, we get
penalized for letting them go over their preventive maintenance. So
I'm always asking where they're going to find out what
sort of vehicle I'm going to give them.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
And there are these initials and there is a signature
on this particular document, correct.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
How long did this whole conversation or renting the car?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Tech?
Speaker 11 (19:42):
Probably a little over fifteen minutes?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
And well let's look at it.
Speaker 8 (19:50):
What uh.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
What kind of car did you rent her?
Speaker 11 (19:54):
White Ford Focus?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Were you there when the was returned?
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Yes, sir?
Speaker 3 (20:03):
And were you the person at check the car in?
Speaker 11 (20:06):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Did you notice anything unusual about the car when you
were checking it in this white fourth focus? I did.
Speaker 13 (20:13):
Why don't you tell me what you noticed.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
After the conversation that I had with her, I had
thought she would be local miles, and in turn, the
car had a little bit more miles than I thought
on it for being local, So it struck me.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Let's look at two Exhibit two thirty seven point oh one.
How many miles are we talking about there that year?
Speaker 5 (20:35):
So the nineteen twenty five nine twenty five miles it
had leaving three miles in were four thousand and seven
hundred and fifty eight.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
But if you take a look up here, how many total.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Oils driven twenty eight to thirty four two eight hundred and.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Thirty four Did you talk to her about that.
Speaker 11 (20:58):
I thought it was very, very odd and did.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
And what did she say?
Speaker 5 (21:05):
I just decided to take it a little bit longer trip.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
And did she say where she went or anything?
Speaker 11 (21:11):
She did not.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
When the cars come back, do you just leave them
like that? Do you send them somewhere to be cleaned? Exactly?
What is it that happens?
Speaker 11 (21:24):
We have detailers that cleaned the vehicles.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Were you able to look at the car before the
detailers got a hold of it?
Speaker 11 (21:31):
I did myself.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Oh so you actually cleaned it yourself.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
I didn't. But I go out there and usually do
a walk around to make sure there's no rock chips,
dense scratches and interiors.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
And what did you notice about the inside of the car?
Speaker 11 (21:48):
There were stains on the back seat and.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
What was the color of the stains?
Speaker 5 (21:53):
It appeared to be kool aid?
Speaker 10 (21:55):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (21:58):
And were those cleaned up?
Speaker 5 (21:59):
I took it up myself to go there and clean it.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
How about anything in the front seat areas? Did you
notice anything there?
Speaker 5 (22:06):
I did? What did you notice the same kool aid
stain which I thought maybe there was?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
She had kids in the vehicle, which which seat had
the kool aid stains?
Speaker 11 (22:16):
The passenger and the back seat in the middle, and
which the.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
One had the larger of the stains, the front or
the back the back? And how about the floor mets
was did the car go out with floor mets?
Speaker 11 (22:30):
They do?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
And were all the floor mets there when it was
returned they were not? And is that the front and
the back or just the front that we're missing?
Speaker 5 (22:40):
All of them were missing.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
I don't have any more questions, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Cross examination.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
Morning, sir.
Speaker 7 (22:58):
I want to make sure I understand stood you correctly.
Are you the owner the manager of this budget rent
a car or you may be both?
Speaker 5 (23:06):
No, it's I do business as budget budget has I'm
not an employee of budgets. I don't work for budget.
I owned Devonzo, Inc. Which we do business as.
Speaker 7 (23:18):
Okay, So you're a franchise.
Speaker 11 (23:20):
Owner, independent contractor.
Speaker 7 (23:24):
Okay, but you do business as a budget right.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
Now, budget rent a car, but I have, like I said,
there's nothing as far as me working for them.
Speaker 7 (23:32):
Okay. I think I understand that. Are you familiar with
the business practices of budget rent car then, having.
Speaker 11 (23:39):
Run one for a while, yes, okay?
Speaker 7 (23:41):
And how long have you run the budget rent a car?
Speaker 5 (23:45):
A little over five years? Okay.
Speaker 7 (23:46):
And this is at the writing airport correct reading California? Correct, Yes, sir,
Based on your experience and knowledge of the business practices
with budget rent cards, you know, do they associate with
their contract with any companies like orbits dot com or
some of these search engines that let you look for
(24:08):
compare rental car prices throughout companies.
Speaker 11 (24:11):
Yes, sir, they do do that, yes, okay.
Speaker 7 (24:14):
And are you aware when you get the car rental
whether or not what the source was of where it
came from.
Speaker 5 (24:24):
There's a code in air and sometimes I could maybe
not what company orbits, but I do know that they
either made it via the eight hundred number or online. Okay.
Speaker 7 (24:35):
And is that something that's on the form or is
that something on some paperwork we don't have with us.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
It would be on the reservation itself, which we don't.
Speaker 6 (24:44):
Have, okay.
Speaker 7 (24:47):
And then when miss Arias called you, that was a
follow up based on a reservation.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
That already been made.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Correct.
Speaker 11 (24:55):
No, I'm not aware.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Okay, you don't know.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
No, I didn't see her.
Speaker 11 (24:58):
In the system early here.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
I mean, I can't recall whether I saw her in
the system or not, but I do know that she
she called.
Speaker 7 (25:04):
Me, okay, all right, and she called you to ensure
that a vehicle would be ready, Yes, sir, okay. When
you rent a car to a person, and we just
looked at the form, somebody doesn't just show up with
cash and take.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
The car, right, We don't accept cash.
Speaker 8 (25:27):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (25:29):
My point is, I guess you need some ID you
do okay?
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Uh?
Speaker 13 (25:33):
And what do you need?
Speaker 5 (25:34):
A driver's license, a valid driver's license, and a major
credit card? Okay?
Speaker 7 (25:39):
Do you photocopy the driver's license? We do not, okay,
but you verify it.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
We verify it in our system.
Speaker 7 (25:46):
And uh, you, Gina said, a valid credit card as well?
Do you run that put a deposit on it? How
does that work? Before the person takes the car out.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Of the credit card is swiped through a machine on
the keyboard, and it is verified whether it has funds
in there or not. Do this wipe?
Speaker 7 (26:07):
Is there a certain amount of funds that you might
check or in that regard or.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
How does that work?
Speaker 5 (26:13):
It might have been different back there, but right now
with a major credit card, it's either two hundred dollars
or the amount of the rental okay, whatever's greater. It's
they're gonna minimum two hundred dollars they're gonna hold.
Speaker 7 (26:26):
And what about insurance? Do you verify someone's insurance or
how does that work?
Speaker 11 (26:30):
We don't offer insurance.
Speaker 5 (26:31):
We offer coverage, So we ask the customer and explain
to them some of the coverages that we offer. Okay.
Speaker 7 (26:40):
But if they decline the coverage, do they have to
show you proof of insurance in some other form like I'm.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
With this company or that company? They usually bring that. Okay.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
Do you remember from this car rent of whether or
not Miss Areas did.
Speaker 14 (26:51):
That or not?
Speaker 5 (26:53):
I don't recall. Okay.
Speaker 7 (26:56):
And you said you had at least a fifteen minute
interaction with her at least okay. And was that when
she provided you the information her address, phone, number, of
things of that nature correct, Okay, She wasn't hesitant about
(27:16):
any of that.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Nope, okay.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
And then this interaction continued as it related to the
type and color of the car that she wanted. Is
that correct?
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Yes? She usually with my customers, like I said, I
get to know them and I usually offer them different
vehicles that I might have on my lot that might
suit them.
Speaker 7 (27:39):
Okay. And I believe you said one of the things
she said to me when we spoke a while back,
was it was your custom and practice to kind of
get to know your customers speak with them a while.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
That sort of absolutely okay, And she wasn't.
Speaker 7 (27:50):
Evasive in any way to your conversation. She wasn't okay
some of the questions I have.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Judge, thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
You indicate that you do verify your driver's license. Is
that correct?
Speaker 11 (28:03):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Sir? Uh, Let's take a look at exhibit number thirty five.
It's does this have a place for a driver's license
on it?
Speaker 8 (28:16):
You see that?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Let me show you. Take a look at, uh, exhibit
two point up here you have four last numbers of
(28:40):
seven one three seven. You see that up there? I
do that in front of you. You have a driver's license, right,
yes I do. And does that have a the last
four digits of that driver's license or.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
What it does?
Speaker 3 (28:54):
And what are they?
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Seven one three seven?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
So that's the driver's license that's involved? Correct?
Speaker 11 (28:59):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (29:00):
And the name on the that driver's license is who that.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
You have juve the area so that it matches contract?
Speaker 15 (29:08):
Okay, no objections.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Take a look at it. It's a little bit there
we go and uh the address there it's a peel
box six twenty two, So does the person. Obviously, a
person does not have to list the residential address where
they live. They can just give you a peel box
(29:39):
and then rent something. Restate your question in terms of renting,
do do you require that they give you a driver's
license with a residential address or is a peel box?
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Okay, we're in a rural area, so peel boxes, especially
at that time, we're fine. They're trying to read us
that where they would need a physical address. But back
then peel boxes were accepted.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
And your cars that you rent, does California require them
to have both the front and a back license plate?
Speaker 6 (30:11):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I don't have any other questions.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Thank you, any questions from the jury for this witness,
I see no hands.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Thank you. You may step down.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
All detective for it.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Detective, you are still into roath, do you understand.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Right?
Speaker 13 (30:32):
Step on floaded.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
And yesterday before we left, we were actually viewing an item,
weren't we.
Speaker 13 (30:46):
Yes, we were going.
Speaker 14 (30:52):
To do this, and you're ashamed of it, so ashamed
that you will come up with the story and try
to hide.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
How was there a game? Did you think teachers as well?
Speaker 6 (31:12):
And that it convinced me.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
They mean you.
Speaker 10 (31:15):
I hope you can convince a jury, but I doubt
it very seriously.
Speaker 14 (31:20):
There's no evidence of anybody else but.
Speaker 6 (31:24):
Nobody.
Speaker 10 (31:34):
And we're still not done looking at all the evidence.
We still have other things to uh to check in
the lab and other blood swabs and other things like that.
Speaker 14 (31:47):
And every time they call me and tell me.
Speaker 10 (31:50):
Hey, we've checked this, points a jokey, Hey, we've checked
that at points a joke.
Speaker 14 (31:56):
Nothing points of anybody else. Do you wanna be true always?
If not, we can just end it now and we'll
just leave it the way it is.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
You know, And it's obvious that is there.
Speaker 14 (32:08):
No, it's obvious that you committed a crime that you hurt.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
The reason, No, you hurt.
Speaker 14 (32:14):
It's not like that, it's it's I know that you did.
Speaker 10 (32:18):
This, and you refuse to tell me why there's any
You refuse to tell me why.
Speaker 14 (32:25):
There's no reason somebody else would come in and do
this to him. There's no motive whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Haven't found any What is my motive?
Speaker 14 (32:34):
Jealousy, anger, fear.
Speaker 6 (32:37):
If you're being alone for.
Speaker 10 (32:38):
The angry at him for not keeping you in his life,
I don't know.
Speaker 14 (32:42):
That's why I'm trying to figure it out. There are
so many motives, with too many. We know you had
a twenty five otto you guys are where had it stolen?
(33:04):
Recovered the ammunition and the matches.
Speaker 10 (33:07):
We recovered a shellcasing, matches, the ammunition, prints, your.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
Blood, your hair.
Speaker 8 (33:14):
The motive.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
You were there wasn't jealous of anything.
Speaker 9 (33:20):
I was a little bit in these and he was
going to Cancun, but that wasn't the reason.
Speaker 14 (33:24):
Like I could go to Cancun.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
And it's not cheap to go to my I mean,
it's not expensive to.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
Go to Max.
Speaker 14 (33:30):
Held probably stand in above room when he was in
a shower.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And you shot him in the head.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
I was kneeling your own side and looking at him
choe shoes, and then.
Speaker 10 (33:41):
You had a knife and you stabbed him several.
Speaker 16 (33:49):
Joke.
Speaker 10 (33:50):
Tell me the truth, please, or if you want giving
me so much already, why not? Do you want too?
Do you wanna continue? Do you wanna tell me the truth?
What did you do with the gun?
Speaker 4 (34:11):
I never had it my possession, Tony.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
You did never You haven't.
Speaker 6 (34:17):
I don't have it.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah, you don't have it.
Speaker 10 (34:22):
You knaw People say that when they know of the
gun they've seen the gun, they've touched the gun.
Speaker 14 (34:28):
You don't have it.
Speaker 16 (34:31):
I saw the gun, yeah, that you had it before,
you've touched it, you've used it, I know you have.
Speaker 9 (34:45):
I don't think I've ever even fired a gun. I've
I've done those and arrows and other friends and water guns.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
And they want a real gun.
Speaker 9 (34:58):
Isn't the gun that I got on Friday.
Speaker 14 (35:00):
So you're gonna continue to tell me that you.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Didn't do this to him, did not kill Travis.
Speaker 8 (35:07):
I believe you did.
Speaker 10 (35:09):
I truly believe you did. And there's nothing shown that anybody
else did this. Nothing been in so many scenes and
so many investigations, and there's always always some type of
evidence left behind, no matter how car and in this case,
there was evidence.
Speaker 14 (35:32):
Not pointing to anybody else, just you. And that's what
I have to go by, and that's what my report's
gonna say.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Okay, I just.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Didn't I had planned to hurt him in any way.
Speaker 9 (35:45):
I you know, I'm not the riost person, but I
I don't think I could stab him. I think I
would have to shoot him antimously until he was dead
if that were my intention. And again I'd bring up
the gloves again that I would have to wear gloves,
(36:06):
cause I mean, I'm.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Not too worried about prince. They gets grow all over anyway.
Speaker 9 (36:09):
But I would never stab if if if, if I
had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least
I could have done was make it humane as possible
or quick or something.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
You know. I found like killing is humane so to speak.
Speaker 9 (36:27):
I don't mean that way.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
I just mean, I know, I know what you mean.
Like he was still alone.
Speaker 6 (36:34):
Yes, he was.
Speaker 10 (36:35):
He was alive for a while, and I knew that
he'd been shocked first, and he was still alive and
possibly tried to get away, maybe even tried to fight back.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
I think he was in shock. I just remember waking
up him.
Speaker 14 (36:50):
And you didn't see him fight back or anything, did you.
He just kind of collapsed there And no.
Speaker 9 (36:56):
He was here my outside of his shower and you
you pulled.
Speaker 14 (37:01):
Him this way and you try to get away with him.
But then he couldn't go any further.
Speaker 9 (37:05):
He said he couldn't move, Yeah, said he couldn't feel it.
Speaker 14 (37:08):
That's the last pay you saw him. He said that
he stopped and he kind of collapsed right there.
Speaker 10 (37:12):
She was standing there and he was over here, or
and it just doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 9 (37:20):
He was still like able to move his like he was.
He was all I guess he was all conscious of
here sort of still. He wasn't like on his leg
or on his knees or on his feet.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
He wasn't walk.
Speaker 9 (37:36):
Yeah, I'm trying to think if I want a guy
him from there. He was sort of using his legs,
but he wasn't standing up.
Speaker 6 (37:41):
Yeah, is you can.
Speaker 14 (37:43):
To continue on that? Proud?
Speaker 8 (37:44):
Okay about only further.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
I don't remember what time I laughed, but.
Speaker 14 (37:57):
I gave you an opportunity. This was the only opportunity, okay.
Speaker 10 (38:03):
And and you just you just yeah, you gave me
the information that you were there, but I knew you
were there, and then you throw some story in that
is not plausible. It just doesn't make any sense with
the evident or any of you sense it.
Speaker 14 (38:18):
All that evidence tells a story.
Speaker 10 (38:22):
And know where in that evidence is that story that
you told me a match?
Speaker 4 (38:28):
That's it.
Speaker 14 (38:28):
How you wanna leave it? You wanna stop here, and
that's how you wanna leave it.
Speaker 9 (38:35):
I know that I didn't teach Travis's life, and I
don't think I know you did.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Okay, I know you don't believe me.
Speaker 9 (38:41):
I as long as I am here, someone else's happy,
and it's not now, So.
Speaker 14 (38:50):
You're just gonna let these two people get away with
that one.
Speaker 9 (38:53):
There's not even any way to identify that when was
the male one was a female.
Speaker 14 (38:56):
They were taller than me, not my whole lot. Okay,
can you ready to go back?
Speaker 6 (39:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:11):
I guess I'd still like to say something to his family.
Speaker 9 (39:13):
Okay, maybe I could write them a letter.
Speaker 14 (39:18):
Oh can you? You always have that opportunity to do that?
Speaker 4 (39:21):
So would they receive it?
Speaker 6 (39:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 14 (39:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
I don't mean would they accept it?
Speaker 9 (39:26):
I mean, if I have you, if they've made it
to them, would they get it?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Do you know?
Speaker 6 (39:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (39:31):
I don't have their I I don't. I'm not gonna
provide you their adress. I know the r they know
where you're, where you're gonna be, and if they wanna make.
Speaker 14 (39:37):
Contact with you, they could do that.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
So and I know his grandmother's address, and at least
if I could.
Speaker 10 (39:42):
Mail it, But okay, I don't know if that's so, well,
let me see if I get something to take you
on home.
Speaker 14 (39:49):
You're absolutely sure you will leg like this.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Nony one else is stay h.
Speaker 14 (40:03):
It's it thing. Okay, the next time I say, you
will probably be in Phoenix.
Speaker 6 (40:10):
Is that cool?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
How about your voice?
Speaker 14 (40:13):
Well, you're going there regardless, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 10 (40:16):
But I was hoping that we could resolve this year,
and it's obvious by what you're telling me you don't
wanna resolve this year.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
They just can't.
Speaker 14 (40:28):
Well, at the beginning, you told me.
Speaker 10 (40:29):
That you couldn't tell me because you couldn't tell me
who they were, because if you didn't want your family
to get hurt, can't I can getell your my family.
Now you're telling me you don't know who they are, and therefore.
Speaker 14 (40:44):
It doesn't matter. So there's nothing you can tell me.
I can give you so many inconsistencies that I don't
even wanna.
Speaker 6 (40:51):
Deal with right now.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Hey, might just don't want your family to get hurt.
Speaker 14 (40:54):
Okay, they won't be hurt. You're hurting them right now
by not telling me the truth. That's what you.
Speaker 15 (41:01):
Okay mean, we have broken examination.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
I should indicate I have any other questions of this time.
Speaker 7 (41:13):
Thank you, detective. It's been a while since you and
I talked.
Speaker 5 (41:17):
We've seen numerous clips.
Speaker 7 (41:22):
Throughout the past few days before we talk about what
we saw on those clips. I want to go back
to some of the things we discussed, or you discussed
with mister Martinez. A while back. You and I had
talked about your interview with Miss Arias on the fifteenth
(41:51):
of July. Remember talking to me about that, Yes I did, okay,
And we talked about some of the things that you
said in there about mister Alexander portraying himself a certain way,
(42:11):
but he's not Remember us discussing that, Yes, I do okay,
And we also talk about referring to mister Alexander miss Areas,
how they kept their relationship hidden from everybody else. We
talked about that, Yes okay. And one of the final
things we talked about is that you had made the
(42:32):
comment that maybe you're.
Speaker 6 (42:35):
May we approach.
Speaker 7 (42:39):
A detective a few days back. We also talked about
your comment to Miss Arias that you were just going
there to have a good time and something got out
of hand. Correct, Yes, okay. Now, after we talked about that,
mister Martinez talked to you about techniques, interview techniques, interrogation techniques.
(43:05):
So that's kind of what I want to talk to
you a little bit about as you've said, I believe
nineteen years with the police department, correct, yes, okay, And
you've been trained in interview techniques, yes I am okay,
And you've been training interrogation techniques.
Speaker 13 (43:20):
Yes, the same thing.
Speaker 7 (43:21):
Okay, So you would label them all the same thing, Yes,
they are, okay. And what label would you use?
Speaker 5 (43:28):
Interview or interrogation.
Speaker 17 (43:30):
Some courses are labeled both interview and interrogation courses or
just interviews.
Speaker 7 (43:35):
Okay. What sort of training then, in your years with
the MESA police department have you had regarding interviews? I'll
just say interview. Well, we'll go interviews and interrogation.
Speaker 17 (43:50):
When I first became a detective, I took an interview
and interrogation.
Speaker 13 (43:54):
Course about thirty hours. It was a basic course.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
And I.
Speaker 17 (44:01):
Soon after that took an interview course it's more advanced.
Speaker 13 (44:06):
Twelve hours or so.
Speaker 8 (44:08):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (44:10):
Is that it?
Speaker 9 (44:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (44:15):
Basically?
Speaker 7 (44:15):
Yes, okay. And before you came a detective, where there
courses in the academy on interviewing that sort of thing?
Speaker 13 (44:22):
Yes, there are.
Speaker 17 (44:23):
There are some basic courses in the academy on how
to contact people and how to interview people.
Speaker 7 (44:27):
Yes, okay, And I suspect as well. Even though we
use the words interview and interrogation, you said they're about
the same. There's got to be a difference in the
kind of interview you're conducting if you're, say, talking to
a witness versus talking to a suspect.
Speaker 13 (44:44):
Right, Yes, there are difference.
Speaker 7 (44:46):
Okay, could you explain that to us.
Speaker 17 (44:48):
Well, obviously, when you're talking to a witness, you're trying
to extract information that they saw remembered.
Speaker 13 (44:55):
Interrogation is more so talking to.
Speaker 17 (44:58):
Somebody who's suspected of a crime.
Speaker 7 (45:02):
Okay, So tell us then, well, these techniques that you discussed,
are those different than in the type of interview in
terms of the interview versus the interrogation.
Speaker 13 (45:22):
Yes, or a little different?
Speaker 7 (45:23):
A little different okay? And why are they different?
Speaker 13 (45:31):
Just because of the nature of what they are. You're
talking to a witness or someone who's accused of something,
it's going to be different. And why just for the
reasons I said.
Speaker 7 (45:45):
Well, let me ask you this then, in terms of
somebody being a suspect versus somebody just being a witness,
is there concern that somebody who's a suspect is to
be a little less forthcoming with information? Yes, that's obvious yet, okay,
and that there may be a concern that they're not
(46:07):
telling the truth craft yes, okay. So going back to
these techniques that you were talking to mister Martinez about
claiming that these things were techniques, what specific techniques can
you point to in terms of your interrogation that you
would classify your comments as.
Speaker 17 (46:29):
In this particular case. Every case is different. In this case,
you use evidence. Sometimes you could say, hey, I saw
your fingerprint there, or I know your fingerprints were there,
maybe they really weren't there.
Speaker 13 (46:43):
Those are some techniques that you use.
Speaker 7 (46:45):
Okay, Well, why what technique were you using them when
you said maybe you're going there to have a good
time with him and something got out of hand?
Speaker 5 (46:56):
What technique is that?
Speaker 17 (46:58):
That's usually what we call a theme. As you're talking
to somebody, as you research their backgrounds.
Speaker 13 (47:06):
You kind of get a somewhat of an understanding of.
Speaker 17 (47:09):
What their life is like and what relationships are like,
and you develop a theme in that case, and that's
the technique, okay.
Speaker 7 (47:21):
And as it relates to mister Alexander portraying himself a
different way and he's not really that type of guy,
what kind of theme would that be or what kind
of technique would that be?
Speaker 13 (47:33):
I was kind of playing on her emotions at that time.
Speaker 7 (47:38):
You saw her as emotional? No, not really, okay, but
you were playing on it. And even despite the fact
that you said you didn't see it right, I was hoping, okay,
And about the relationship being hidden from everyone else, you're claimless,
that's the technique as well, yes, And what technique is.
Speaker 13 (47:57):
That same technique I was hoping to play on.
Speaker 7 (48:01):
Her emotions now when it relates to and it's obvious
from the words you said when miss Arius told you
about the intruders you didn't believe are correct, Yes, okay,
in terms of interrogation in those suspects, have you been
(48:25):
trained on how to discerned deception or that there's indicators
of deception? Yes, okay, tell us about that.
Speaker 17 (48:37):
They're in the same courses that I've taken. There's certain
things that people do when when they're deceptive, They you know,
turn away a certain.
Speaker 13 (48:45):
Way, They you know, play with their clothes a lot.
Speaker 17 (48:48):
They you can tell when they're you know, reaching in
the back of their mind to try to find something
to tell you.
Speaker 7 (48:57):
Okay, And I believe that you said that within thirty
seconds to a minute, you could discern that those sort
of patterns. Is that right?
Speaker 13 (49:09):
I don't remember saying that.
Speaker 7 (49:11):
Let me ask you this, how many and I'm sure
I'm not expecting an exact number, but how many interrogations
have you conducted.
Speaker 5 (49:18):
Over the years?
Speaker 13 (49:19):
I don't really remember.
Speaker 7 (49:21):
Hundreds, yes, thousands, maybe hundreds thousands, I'm not sure. Okay, Now,
when you talk about indicators of deception, you talked about
really nonverbal indicators. What you just told me, would you
(49:42):
agree with that? I'm talking about nonverbal indicators? Okay? Are
there verbal indicators meaning in terms of what they tell you.
Speaker 13 (49:56):
Could be.
Speaker 8 (49:58):
Okay?
Speaker 7 (49:59):
Let me ask, based on your training and experience, is
there I mean, when people lie, is they're generally speaking,
based on your training, an effort to throw a little
truth in there to make the lie more believable. Yes,
it has to be plausible right from the lie's perspective,
(50:21):
He or she is trying to get you to say
something that's or believe something plausible. Right, Yes, And your job, then,
as a detective, I would imagine, is to kind of
sort out some of that, right, yes. Now, in one
(50:55):
of your answers, there was some discussion about out you
attempted to find a handgun or knife and you didn't
find one. Is that correct?
Speaker 13 (51:08):
That's correct?
Speaker 7 (51:10):
Were there knives recovered? Yes, the Alexander Holme, Yes, we did. Okay.
And what sort of knives.
Speaker 5 (51:19):
Did you recover?
Speaker 13 (51:21):
Kitchen knives?
Speaker 7 (51:22):
Okay? How many do you know?
Speaker 13 (51:26):
I don't recall the top of my head.
Speaker 7 (51:28):
Several a set, perhaps a set.
Speaker 13 (51:31):
There was a kitchen block was taken. There were knives in.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
The in the in the washing in the.
Speaker 13 (51:39):
Wash at that time, ditchwasher.
Speaker 7 (51:44):
And none of those will be determined to be evidence
related to this crime.
Speaker 13 (51:49):
We couldn't determine if they were the ones used or not.
Speaker 7 (51:53):
And you said, before we get back to the interviews,
you talked about you searched in the yard for the gun,
for any evidence, I guess, but any weapon right all
around the residents in and out the front yard, backyard area, yes, okay.
What about the neighborhood.
Speaker 13 (52:15):
We really didn't have anywhere to go.
Speaker 7 (52:19):
No neighbor's yard anything like that.
Speaker 13 (52:20):
You didn't look there, everything in the immediate area.
Speaker 7 (52:23):
All right, Well, let's talk about.
Speaker 11 (52:30):
The interviews.
Speaker 7 (52:31):
Then on July fifteenth, you felt as if you had
or you had enough evidence.
Speaker 5 (52:43):
To arrest Miss Areas.
Speaker 7 (52:45):
Correct. Yes, And in that regard then maybe complete isn't
the most accurate word, but you had a fairly complete investigation,
correct up to that point. Up to that point. Okay. Now,
(53:06):
if I need to refresh your recollection with the videos,
we can do that. But we one of the first
watched several but we had one video that really centered
around a period of time when you and miss Arius
were conversing about the advantages of her moving to Masa
(53:29):
or her move to Masa.
Speaker 5 (53:31):
She spoke about some of the advantages.
Speaker 7 (53:32):
Do you remember seeing that video a couple of days ago.
Speaker 13 (53:35):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (53:36):
And in that video she made a comment to the.
Speaker 6 (53:39):
Effect that.
Speaker 7 (53:41):
Travis told her that they could still hang out if
she moved in Mason.
Speaker 5 (53:46):
Do you recall that, yes?
Speaker 7 (53:48):
Okay, And did you and your investigation later determine hanging
out being a code for having sex?
Speaker 3 (53:57):
No.
Speaker 7 (53:58):
And the other thing that was interesting about that tape
was that it cut off right about the time this
Arias was talking about Lisa. She made a comment she
didn't know about him and Lisa, referring to Travis and Lisa.
Speaker 13 (54:17):
Do you recall that I don't recall that specific.
Speaker 8 (54:24):
Reviewing Exhibit three point fifty.
Speaker 7 (54:25):
One, refresher recollection, Detective, sure.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
At this time.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
Please be back in the designated area at one twenty
five and we will start promptly at one thirty. Please
remember the admonition you are excused have a nice lane.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Let's bring in the jury. Are the presence of the jury,
the defendant and all counsel. Mister Nerman, you may continue
withus cross examination.
Speaker 7 (55:00):
Judge's the screen up, Detective. When we before we broke
for the lunch break, we were about to talk about
Exhibit three point fifty one. I asked you about the
tail end of that, and you needed your recollection refresh
(55:20):
refreshed on that, and I'm going to play that for
you now.
Speaker 13 (55:23):
Okay, okay, let's move to after the breakup? Oh okay, what.
Speaker 8 (55:30):
What kept you and.
Speaker 4 (55:34):
I actually moved?
Speaker 14 (55:37):
Let's move to after the breakup?
Speaker 9 (55:39):
Oh okay, what.
Speaker 8 (55:43):
What kept you and Mesa?
Speaker 3 (55:45):
At that point?
Speaker 9 (55:48):
I actually moved to Mesa a few weeks after we
broke up. Really, I mean, as far as the timeline goes,
but I mean, if you want to call it our
official breakup, shortly thereafter, it's like we were still seeing.
Speaker 10 (56:01):
So you guys were seeing each other, but it was
a long distance type relationship.
Speaker 4 (56:05):
It was always long distance. When we were officially dating,
we didn't we had dated. We dated from about the
beginning of February to about the end of June. Soar
februd March what made you about five months? Told?
Speaker 14 (56:16):
Okay, in June two thousand seven, you guys broke up
and and then you moved to Masa.
Speaker 4 (56:24):
Yeah, I moved to Mesa.
Speaker 14 (56:25):
Sort of most people when they break up.
Speaker 6 (56:28):
They kind of like go there.
Speaker 9 (56:29):
I know where there was, and we plans were already
in order for me to move there. I was already
speaking with a friend who was you know, it was
gonna be her roommate, and I was her roommate for.
Speaker 8 (56:40):
A short time.
Speaker 4 (56:44):
She's kind of flighty s She's a great girl.
Speaker 8 (56:47):
Though.
Speaker 9 (56:50):
I had talked to Travis about maybe going to southern
California instead, Okay, and.
Speaker 4 (56:56):
He's really he's he's really.
Speaker 14 (57:01):
Persuasive, you persuade you to stay there Mesa. A.
Speaker 9 (57:05):
He's he kind of was playing up all the advantages
if I did come to Mesa, and if I did,
you know, he said, you know, it's it's it's a
great place. We could still see each other and hang
out on occasion.
Speaker 6 (57:19):
There.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
This church is very strong. You know, you'll you'll make
a lot of friends. And I already knew all this
stuff prior because I.
Speaker 9 (57:25):
Had we'd talked about that, you know, and so I went.
Speaker 4 (57:31):
Ahead and just made the move.
Speaker 9 (57:32):
It sounded at the time like a good idea, and
you guys continued to kind.
Speaker 14 (57:37):
Of see each other at that time.
Speaker 10 (57:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (57:39):
At the time, I was sort of living more across
town over by Greenfield.
Speaker 5 (57:41):
Do you know where that is? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (57:43):
Uh, it was up.
Speaker 9 (57:43):
Greenfield near Broadway, Greenfield Broadway where the nearest cross streets,
and that's where the girl that w was originally talking
with me.
Speaker 4 (57:50):
I moved in with her. That's kind of hard, yeah, trials.
Speaker 9 (57:54):
Yeah, the thing about her and and just to give
you a background of why I moved, So, she approached
me the weekend after I got there and said, hey,
shol knocked to my door and I talked to you
for a second. I said sure, And she moved in
with her boyfriend and they were engaged, okay, and she said, hey,
I just wanted to let you know that.
Speaker 4 (58:13):
Scott and I went to Vegas last weekend.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
To type it up and I.
Speaker 9 (58:16):
Was like really, She was like, yeah, we've told me one,
but we didn't want to live and sin, so we're
gonna And she had already been zealed in the temple
once and was waiting for her cancel.
Speaker 8 (58:24):
Her to whatever, yeah, to be canceled.
Speaker 9 (58:28):
So they were gonna have a civil wedding on the
beach in Oregon, and they did that the following at
the following weekend. She told me that on a Monday
or Tuesday. It was the beginning of the week, and
she said, the reason I'm telling you that is because
I'm getting married this weekend and I have to go
out of town a few days ahead of Scott, you know,
and make arrangements. And now that he's a married man,
(58:48):
we don't feel it's right that you be here in
the house, She thought, I don't want to in convenience.
Is there any way you can stay with somebody else
or just find another place. At the time, I was
waiting on a house in Gilbert because I already knew
they were getting married, so kind of looking anyway. And
there was a great girl named Branda, and she was
waiting on her keys for the words to go through.
And it was a great war and it was a
great house.
Speaker 8 (59:07):
And it was a brand new.
Speaker 4 (59:09):
Construction and all that was really nice.
Speaker 9 (59:11):
But she didn't get her keys from months and months.
I think she's in the house now, but I don't know.
Speaker 8 (59:15):
I haven't talked to her.
Speaker 4 (59:17):
So I scrambled. I went to the institute. I wrote
down a bunch of phone numbers.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
I called 'em all, a lot of 'em.
Speaker 4 (59:23):
I got voicemails. One girl that answered.
Speaker 9 (59:26):
Her name was Tiffany, and she knew Travis and she
was at his services in Arizona and.
Speaker 4 (59:32):
As well, and we've just remained friends sort of.
Speaker 9 (59:34):
Like on MySpace and Facebook and that kind of thing.
But she said, hey, sorry, that's an outdated posting. I
for opt to get down and go to this website,
so Elliot's.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
Housing dot in net.
Speaker 4 (59:42):
I went there.
Speaker 13 (59:43):
I couldn't made.
Speaker 9 (59:43):
Three phone calls for the places that were within my
price range. I didn't think to look where they were.
Speaker 3 (59:49):
The one girl that called me.
Speaker 4 (59:50):
Back, her name is Shannon Derecott.
Speaker 9 (59:51):
She said, here's my place, here's the directions.
Speaker 4 (59:53):
Go ahead and go out and come see the house.
Speaker 9 (59:55):
It was available, so we did, Oh, go ahead, you
have to, okay, So I moved out there, and when
Travis found out it was so close to.
Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
Him, and you freaked out about it. And I made
sure to check that.
Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
It wasn't that we wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (01:00:11):
Be in the same word, and.
Speaker 9 (01:00:12):
It was within his ward boundaries, but it was also
within another single's word boundary, So.
Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
Of course I might go the other order because it would.
Speaker 8 (01:00:18):
Just be kind of weird.
Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
I mean, I didn't know about him.
Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
And Lisa.
Speaker 7 (01:00:24):
Refresh your recollection tactic.
Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Yes, what was that?
Speaker 7 (01:00:28):
Okay at the very end there she says she didn't
know about him, And Lisa, did you hear that?
Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Yes? I heard that.
Speaker 7 (01:00:35):
Okay, based on your investigation, who is that reference to?
Speaker 13 (01:00:43):
Might have been a girlfriend? I guess Travis's or something
is his name?
Speaker 7 (01:00:47):
Lisa andrews ring a bell that sounds familiar. Okay, she
was interviewed in power of your investigation.
Speaker 13 (01:00:54):
Right, I don't remember she might have been. We talked
to a lot of people.
Speaker 7 (01:01:01):
Okay, you talked about and you've heard other witnesses talk
about this mysterious email that she received. So you don't
remember talking to her now, this so called threatening email
tires slashing. You don't remember that now?
Speaker 13 (01:01:16):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (01:01:17):
I do remember, Okay, okay, and that was Lisa Andrews, right, Yes,
I believe so okay, And in your investigation you came
to understand that mister Alexander, and I'll use the word dating,
was dating Miss Andrews and miss Areus at the same time.
Speaker 6 (01:01:35):
Is that correct?
Speaker 17 (01:01:37):
I don't remember the specifics, and you're going to have
to talk to Lisa about I don't remember.
Speaker 8 (01:01:41):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (01:01:53):
And we also saw you in the course of these
interviews said you told miss arius that you don't think
she planted something.
Speaker 8 (01:02:03):
Got out of control.
Speaker 7 (01:02:04):
Correct?
Speaker 13 (01:02:04):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (01:02:05):
Is that more technique? Yeah, checking that up to technique. Okay.
You also said you do not see a cold blooded
murder again, is that going to be technique?
Speaker 13 (01:02:18):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (01:02:22):
During one of these interviews or your interview on the
fifteenth one of the clips, miss Arias said to you
no reason she would ever want to hurt Travis arm Travis,
and your comment was, I don't think you ever wanted
to more technique?
Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 7 (01:02:46):
Now, these techniques they're very specific for interrogations. Correct, they're
not too specific. Well, they're for interviewing and interrogating suspects. Right,
it's a little We talked about the difference. Yes, it's
techniques that you employ on a suspect. Yes, okay. So
when you were interviewed, and we talked earlier, that you
(01:03:08):
were interviewed by a news program CBS forty eight hours, right, yes, okay,
and you would then have no need to employ any
of these tactics when you're being interviewed by a reporter, right, No, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
So if you.
Speaker 7 (01:03:26):
Repeated some of these same techniques when you were engaged
in that interview with CBS, or you said some of
these things, that wouldn't be.
Speaker 13 (01:03:35):
Techniques, right, No, it wouldn't be technique.
Speaker 7 (01:03:38):
It wouldn't be techniques you have no reason to use.
So why would you say some of these same things?
Speaker 17 (01:03:43):
Some of the techniques I believed some of them were.
Speaker 7 (01:03:47):
I believe they're not all techniques. Some of them are
what you believed, right.
Speaker 13 (01:03:51):
Techniques are some truths that you do believe.
Speaker 17 (01:03:54):
And at that point, when I was interviewing her, I
was just kind of reaching at things.
Speaker 13 (01:03:58):
I didn't know where she was going with this, okay,
And of course.
Speaker 17 (01:04:01):
I would reach out and try to figure out where
she's coming from.
Speaker 7 (01:04:06):
And this interview you had with the correspondent for forty
eight hours and CBS. That was subsequent to the July
fifteenth and July sixteenth, the interviews you did with Miss Areas. Correct, Yes,
it was okay, several months correct, Yes, And I wanted
(01:04:28):
to clear up something as well. You had several interviews
with Miss Areas. We've heard snippets or portions of phone
calls that began the day that you arrived on the scene,
or perhaps the day after, and many throughout the course
of your investigation. Right, maybe half dozen or so.
Speaker 13 (01:04:51):
I don't remember the exact number, but that.
Speaker 7 (01:04:53):
Sound about right. There's a few, okay, during any of
those times. Did she tell you that she worked at
some place called Marguerite Belle?
Speaker 5 (01:05:03):
I don't remember.
Speaker 7 (01:05:04):
She told you all along, as she did in there,
that she worked at a place called Casa Ramos.
Speaker 5 (01:05:08):
Isn't that correct?
Speaker 13 (01:05:09):
I remember during one interview she mentioned Ramos. I'd never
heard of it before.
Speaker 7 (01:05:16):
Now, going back to what we said before about your
training on deception. Before lunch, we talked about how there's
an element of truth in a lie to make it plausible. Right, Yes,
let me run back over then. Some of the things
(01:05:38):
in this last snippet.
Speaker 6 (01:05:40):
We saw.
Speaker 7 (01:05:43):
Over yesterday and today. She told you a story about
intruders entering the home. Right, yes, she did, on one male,
one female, right, yes okay. And during this story, and
we heard her say that she ran into a closet, correct,
(01:06:04):
yes okay. And we also heard her say that Travis
was shot was still alive, correct, yes okay. And she
also mentioned and she even physically indicated that she got
hit on the back of the head, right yes okay.
And she also said that there was a knife involved
(01:06:27):
and a gun involved. Right, yes, she did, okay. And
in her story of the two intruders, the female half
was the aggressor.
Speaker 18 (01:06:40):
Right.
Speaker 7 (01:06:41):
She did the shooting, She did a lot of the activity, right.
Speaker 13 (01:06:45):
Yes, that's what she told me.
Speaker 7 (01:06:51):
She also said that he was bleeding everywhere, right yes,
and he being referring to Travis, right yes. And she
also said that she was wearing stripe pants, right yes
she did, okay. She said she was scared, right yes,
(01:07:14):
freaked out.
Speaker 5 (01:07:14):
Of her mind?
Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
Right.
Speaker 6 (01:07:17):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (01:07:19):
I have no further questions.
Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Redirect with regard to this issue of techniques. She were
asked about that on your cross examination, all those techniques
work out for you during this interview, not very well.
Why do you say that they didn't work out very
well for you.
Speaker 13 (01:07:39):
I never got the truth.
Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 13 (01:07:44):
She never really told me the truth about.
Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Well, what did you tell you initially?
Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
That?
Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Was she there or not?
Speaker 13 (01:07:49):
No?
Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Is that the truth?
Speaker 9 (01:07:51):
No?
Speaker 18 (01:07:52):
It was not.
Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
She also told you a story about two people doing it.
Is that the same story as the one that she
told you before?
Speaker 13 (01:08:00):
No, that was a completely different story.
Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
And she was there on this one, right on the
second one she told you right? Yes, And is that
what she has Is that the story that she has
kept to or is there a different story now?
Speaker 13 (01:08:15):
It's a different story now she says she was there
and she did it.
Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
So again, these techniques that you're using, how many tell
me a little bit more about your training on these techniques?
Speaker 17 (01:08:29):
Approximately forty fifty hours of training for interview interrogation.
Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
And with regard to these techniques that you used in
this case. Given what you know that she now says
she did it. Did they work at all?
Speaker 13 (01:08:45):
No?
Speaker 5 (01:08:45):
Not really?
Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
When you say not really, it applies that they did.
How did they work? You tell me how they work?
Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
Well?
Speaker 13 (01:08:51):
There were some truths in there, but the majority of
it and.
Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Some truths you don't know which is true, which isn't right,
do you? No?
Speaker 13 (01:08:58):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
She told you this I an interview, that the shot
was first, right, yes, And she told you that the
shot was first, and that the shot was first by
somebody else, not her, right, Yes, correct, And you indicated
to me just now, well there was some truth to it.
Is that something that you believed at the time that
she told you that the shot was first?
Speaker 13 (01:09:18):
Yes? I actually did believe that.
Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
And is that the position that you adopted after she
told you that?
Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
Is that your position that you had when you spoke
to doctor Kevin Horn in anticipation of whatever hearing you
were going to have.
Speaker 13 (01:09:38):
Over old Yes, I maintained that belief.
Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
And when you spoke to him, did you speak to
him about what your belief was at that time when
you spoke to.
Speaker 13 (01:09:49):
Doctor Horn, No, not really.
Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
And did you speak about that you believed doctor Horne,
that you believed, based on a conversation with a defendant
and on your techniques, that you thought the shot was first.
Speaker 13 (01:10:03):
I didn't have that conversation with doctor Warren.
Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
And when you testified the day after, were you testifying
based at least in part on what the defendant told
you as to what came first, Yes, and that was
what what did you tell you came.
Speaker 13 (01:10:17):
First, that the shot came first.
Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
She also did tell you other things that there was
blood and that sort of thing.
Speaker 9 (01:10:24):
Right.
Speaker 18 (01:10:25):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
You were asked about this issue about whether or not
you believed that she was out of control, she was
a cold blood of murder, did something she didn't want to.
Is that what you believe or is that something that
you used to try to perhaps get up the truth
in this case? Why did you use those phrases? Sir?
Speaker 13 (01:10:51):
It was part of my technique to try to figure
out what happened.
Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
You were asked about whether or not you went on
forty eight hours. Do you remember that?
Speaker 8 (01:10:58):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
And you were asked about having spoken to them, right, Yes,
And you were asked about whether or not there was
a technique that was involved with regard to forty eight hours. Right.
Speaker 5 (01:11:09):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
You've also viewed other interviews people that gave interviews to
forty eight hours, right, Yes, I have the interview between
the defendant and forty eight hours.
Speaker 7 (01:11:28):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
And with regard to the story that she gave there,
did it differ from the second story that she gave
you in huge amounts? The story that she gave you
on July sixteenth of two thousand and eight, the second story, Yes,
the second story.
Speaker 13 (01:11:46):
No, not much at all.
Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
You were asked about the July sixteenth, two thousand and
eight statement that she gave you about who was the aggressor,
whether or not the female was the aggressor, and that
sort of thing. Do you remember that line of questioning?
Speaker 13 (01:12:01):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
With regard to what she told you, did she ever
tell you that somebody held a gun to her head
during during this interluder? During this incident, yes, Who did
she say put the gun to her head?
Speaker 13 (01:12:16):
The mail?
Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
And what did the mail do with regard to the
gun after he put it to her head let her go?
Speaker 13 (01:12:24):
Eventually?
Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
And with regard to did she ever tell you of
anybody looking in her purse? Did she ever discuss that
with you during that interview?
Speaker 13 (01:12:32):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
And what did she say with regard to who was
the person that actually looked in her purse?
Speaker 13 (01:12:37):
The mail?
Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
So, in terms of this case, did she ever say
who did the shooting? Did she ever tell you if
she saw who actually? In her story who did the
shooting or who shot mister Alexander. No, and this is
the same person this story about who's the aggressor. Was
this the same person that told you that previously she
(01:13:01):
wasn't there?
Speaker 15 (01:13:02):
Yes, I don't have anything else, anything else, mister Jeremy,
these forty eight hour interviews of miss Arias, you've seem
to have a pretty good memory of them.
Speaker 7 (01:13:15):
Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (01:13:16):
Somewhat?
Speaker 6 (01:13:17):
Okay?
Speaker 7 (01:13:20):
She did the interviewer didn't ask all the same questions
you did.
Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
Did she?
Speaker 13 (01:13:26):
I wasn't there. I don't know. I only saw what
was captured on camera.
Speaker 7 (01:13:29):
You saw what was on camera, Okay. As far as
what was captured on camera, did you see? Did the
interviewer use the exact same script that you did?
Speaker 8 (01:13:41):
No?
Speaker 7 (01:13:42):
No, she asked more questions right, different questions. Yes, she
asked miss Arias that she said that this looked like
a classic case of domestic violence, didn't she?
Speaker 13 (01:13:54):
I don't recall that.
Speaker 7 (01:13:55):
You don't recall that one.
Speaker 6 (01:13:56):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (01:13:57):
Let me see if you recall questions about mister Alexander
being abusive towards miss Arius, do you recall the interview
or asking her about that?
Speaker 13 (01:14:07):
No?
Speaker 6 (01:14:07):
I don't okay.
Speaker 7 (01:14:10):
And as it relates to miss Arias, I'm gonna guess
you don't remember. But there's miss Arius being mister Alexander's
booty call. You don't remember that, or do you?
Speaker 13 (01:14:24):
That's somewhat yes, I do.
Speaker 7 (01:14:25):
That's that's somewhat familiar, okay. And that they discussed the
idea that mister Alexander would call her late at night
requesting sexual favors. Do you remember that being discussed?
Speaker 17 (01:14:42):
No, I don't remember that.
Speaker 7 (01:14:44):
I don't remember that either. Okay, a moment, Jarnor you
told CBS that you thought this was a crime of passion, correct.
Speaker 6 (01:14:54):
No, I don't remember that.
Speaker 5 (01:14:56):
No.
Speaker 7 (01:14:57):
You also told them that something happened and and she
just snapped. Things got out of control, right.
Speaker 17 (01:15:04):
I remember saying things got out of control. That I
don't remember the actual context of it.
Speaker 5 (01:15:08):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (01:15:10):
That's all I have for now.
Speaker 15 (01:15:13):
Anything else, mister Martinez, with regard to those comments that
you may have made, were those comments based in part
home with and tendivility?
Speaker 12 (01:15:23):
Yes, they wouldn't have anything answer.
Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, I have some questions from you.
It looks like we have another question. Any other questions
for this witness council, please approach all right, detective, the
jurors have some questions for you for you. Were there
any sets of knives that appeared to be missing a knife.
Speaker 13 (01:15:51):
No, we didn't find anything like that.
Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Was the gun that was used to kill mister Alexander
found in miss arias possess?
Speaker 13 (01:16:01):
No it was not.
Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
Why were the fibers found at the scene, sandals and
pillows not sent out to compare them?
Speaker 17 (01:16:11):
We didn't feel it was necessary at that time.
Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
When you personally interviewed mister Alexander's roommates, was there ever
a mention of their concern for his extended absence June
four through June nine?
Speaker 17 (01:16:28):
No, they believed he was in Mexico already, didn't know
his schedule.
Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
What were the alibis given by those roommates?
Speaker 17 (01:16:40):
One was working and the other was actually staying at
his girlfriend's home and they were house sitting for her.
Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Did mister Alexander have a boarder or another person living
in the house.
Speaker 13 (01:16:54):
No, just the two.
Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Were the fingerprints the border taken to see if they
matched any at the scene, yes, they were. With regard
to the knife or gun, was mister Alexander's old BMW.
Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
Searched, No, it was not.
Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Any other questions from the jury.
Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Follow up from the state, mister Jeremy, I did.
Speaker 12 (01:17:27):
A couple of questions.
Speaker 7 (01:17:31):
Is roommates from mister Alexander's I think can you mention
that the other day, Enrique Cortez? And I'm sorry, could
you refresh my memory on the other one? Was it
Zach Billings?
Speaker 13 (01:17:45):
Was that Zach Billings?
Speaker 7 (01:17:48):
And they were both living with mister Alexander at.
Speaker 13 (01:17:50):
The time, right, yes, okay?
Speaker 7 (01:17:53):
And did your investigation reveal whether or not uh, mister
Billings or mister Cortes knew that Jodiarius was coming for
a visit.
Speaker 13 (01:18:06):
They did not know she was coming for a visit.
Speaker 7 (01:18:09):
And based on your investigation, did you obtain any knowledge
that either mister Cortes or mister Billings were warned against
this so called dangerous.
Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Stalker to call the cops if she showed up overworld.
Speaker 13 (01:18:27):
I had no such information, no information.
Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Thank you, detective.
Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
You may step down.
Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
All right, Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take
the evening recess at this time. Please be back in
the designated area downstairs meeting Room A at ten twenty
five tomorrow morning, and we will start promptly at ten thirty.
Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
Please remember the admunition have a nice evening.
Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
You are excused.
Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Jury has left the courtroom, Miss Wilmot, mister Nurman, do
you have any additional materials for me to review?
Speaker 8 (01:19:13):
I did?
Speaker 6 (01:19:14):
We have.
Speaker 12 (01:19:16):
Two Saysus transcripts in.
Speaker 7 (01:19:18):
The copy center to review. I know earlier the states
that he wanted to make a record, so we once
he's done doing that, we can bring them to the court.
I'm assuming court hasn't read everything else already, so once
if he wants to make his record, then we will
submit those transcripts afterwards.
Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
Do you want to make your record today or tomorrow?
Speaker 3 (01:19:39):
I do it right now, I have it right, right,
get it done?
Speaker 4 (01:19:42):
All right? Me just get my notes.
Speaker 3 (01:19:45):
May proceed regard to the issue of the text messages, and
I'm citing the transcript dated June eighteenth, twenty ten before
Duncan and the person that is testifying, Michael Melendez. Last
(01:20:07):
on the item sees was a cell phone pocket PC, right,
We've talked about that before, and he answered yes. The
question was okay, so you know to which item on
referring to? And he answered, is that mister Alexander's phone?
The answer was yes, and then he said yes. The
question was okay, you looked at that phone, you powered
(01:20:27):
it on? Correct? The answer yes, And did you or
did you not find text messages on there? His answer
I did. Question okay, you did, and the answer yes.
Question did you read those messages, the content, the verbiage?
His answer was yes, okay. And what do you recall
(01:20:48):
of that was the question. His answer, I don't have
any recollections specifically, I know I did note some of
them in my report. The answer, okay, were you able
to download those messages from the set tee pocket PC?
He answered I was not. He was asked describe for
us why you weren't able to do that. He said,
(01:21:08):
at the time, I did not have any software that
would give me the capability of doing that, and then
he talks about it in other portions of this particular transcript.
But it does indicate that this issue involving the text
messages has already been discussed, and that Detective Melendus has
(01:21:31):
already indicated that he was unable to download the text
messages from mister Alexander's telephone because the technology for the
software wasn't available. That's what he testified to in the
argument that was presented to you previously. After the person
from Verizon testified, he and the person from Verizon. Jody
(01:21:53):
Citizen indicated that they didn't keep these text messages other
than two or three days, and defense counsel sort of
sattled on that and said, well, see they were there
and the state just wouldn't turn them over to us.
Speaker 4 (01:22:09):
This.
Speaker 3 (01:22:09):
I would like to mark this as an exhibit and
have you read it. There's other references to this. It
also talks about the email messages and what happened, and
I asked that you consider that with regard to the
present emotion evolvement success. I do as all.
Speaker 4 (01:22:26):
Right, that document will be marked as.
Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
An exhibit and admitted for purposes of.
Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
A court ruling on emotion for mistrial.
Speaker 6 (01:22:38):
It maybe being.
Speaker 12 (01:22:39):
Pluss, we're certainly not objected to that.
Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
We do have the other testimony of.
Speaker 7 (01:22:46):
As well, and that's what will be furnishing to the
court later. I can't recall the dates, the specific dates,
but there were other hearings and we'll be providing those transcas.
Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
All right, do you want further argument on.
Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
This request for mistrial?
Speaker 7 (01:23:04):
Just the only thing I would make note of as
it relates to this in terms of misconduct. The prosecutor,
when I raised this issue, went forward and said, oh,
you know, I think that all Hispanic names must sound
alike applying on racist that I'm being insincere about my efforts,
(01:23:25):
so that I'm not very smart. I think that's demonstrative
of the idea that the Emperor.
Speaker 12 (01:23:32):
Has no close here.
Speaker 7 (01:23:33):
Judge, there is a contradictory testimony he's elicited. I let
the transcerts speak for themselves, but I point those things
out because that's an additional instances of misconduct that's inappropriate
on the part of this prosecution and should not be
tolerated by this court.
Speaker 12 (01:23:51):
And that's all I have to say on that. I
do have one more record.
Speaker 8 (01:23:54):
To make and then we will do.
Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
Mister Martine, Yesterday defen Council requested that an item that
had been in the possession and available for the last
since approximately July two thousand and eight, and available for
inspection we finally or be turned over to the operance.
Is the first request that was ever made. It involved
(01:24:19):
Mason Police Departmental Item number four zero eight to seventh,
which is a camera.
Speaker 18 (01:24:26):
Ostensibly, it belonged to the defendant and was seized from
one of the homes that was searched up in Mardbreak
to California I had that marked as exhibit number.
Speaker 3 (01:24:38):
Three sixty four. The request was made before lunch, the
item was brought over during the lunch hour. I had
it marked as exhibit number three sixty four and it
was released to the defendant yesterday after their request. The
other issue involved there was a witness by the name
(01:24:58):
of Gus Searcy that was just the.
Speaker 8 (01:25:01):
Noticed.
Speaker 4 (01:25:03):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:25:03):
I think it was noticed either Monday or Tuesday, maybe
Wednesday this week. I just I know it's this week.
I'm not asking for preclusion, but I'm asking for consideration.
For my consideration is that he made available in Phoenix
for my interview, uh, during this highatus.
Speaker 8 (01:25:20):
That we will be taking.
Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
So I asked that he'd be ordered during the next
week to be made available.
Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
Mister Rmy, do you wish to be heard?
Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
Why?
Speaker 8 (01:25:32):
Uh?
Speaker 7 (01:25:33):
Yes, the recitation of the facts regarding the camera, just.
Speaker 6 (01:25:40):
For the record is accurate.
Speaker 12 (01:25:41):
My expert picked it up from your clerk.
Speaker 6 (01:25:45):
Yesterday.
Speaker 8 (01:25:46):
I believe it was.
Speaker 12 (01:25:49):
As it relates to mister sears Uh.
Speaker 7 (01:25:51):
For the reasons we've stated, the next party.
Speaker 8 (01:25:54):
Would believe it that.
Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
The court will take these states request to interview mister
circiandra advisement and will rule in the future on that request,
mister Jermy.
Speaker 12 (01:26:07):
The only other issue I have is that.
Speaker 7 (01:26:12):
Yesterday we were given the understanding that the state would
be calling Lisa Andrews. She was known as Andrews at
the time. My understanding now is her last name is Diodone.
The information we have on her, at least in terms
of her telephone number is probably at eve at least
a year, if not.
Speaker 8 (01:26:33):
More so old.
Speaker 12 (01:26:34):
So we were asking if the state provides.
Speaker 7 (01:26:36):
Us with that contact information and that any subpoena issued.
Speaker 8 (01:26:39):
To hurry me.
Speaker 3 (01:26:42):
She called me during the break and uh I spoke
to her.
Speaker 8 (01:26:50):
I w I will call.
Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
Her, and if she wants me to facilitate this contact,
I will. If she wants to speak with the defense
attorney directly, that's fine with me. I will take care
of it today. I'll call her as soon as this
is done. I don't know if the question was being asked,
but just so that there is no question about it
later because memory's faith, including mine, The reason I did
(01:27:16):
not call her involved this issue of the stalking. I
know that defense counsel spoke about stalking and opening statement,
and I also know that Mimi Hall or Marie Hall
spoke about it, saying that when she came to the door,
she was speaking with her mother because she was afraid
of a stalker. We never made any or we never
(01:27:38):
indicated that the stalker was the defendant. That information came
from Defense Council. In opening statement, mister Adonia is going
would have testified. And I'm concerned that should there be
a conviction, I'm not saying there's going to be that
an issue like that is so inflammay that some court
(01:28:03):
may say something to the effect that wealth the jury
could have possibly considered this improper evidence of stalking in
their decision and may have been inflamed under four one, four,
two and four three. I know that the defendant has
(01:28:24):
not moved in Linny to do this, but this is
more of a self governing move on my part.
Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
What mister a.
Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
Donated would have testified, and what she told me about
was that she spent it was December of two thousand
and seven that she spent some time with mister Alexander
at her house. It was raining, and that when they
were inside the house, so there was a knock at
(01:28:50):
the door and they went outside to look. And this
was during the time when the defendant was living in town.
She went outside and mister Alexander's tires were slashed. He
then got to replace the next day. He came back
the next day and his tire, and then again somebody
came to the door his tires were again slashed. And
(01:29:15):
at some other point, maybe the next day, her tires
were slashed. The tires on her car were slashed. She
when they were inside. After finding that her tires had
been slashed, she was concerned that her safety was at risk,
(01:29:36):
and she would she asked mister Alexander to spend the
night with her. She would have testified that they did
not have any sexual contact that night, but he did
stay the night. The next day, and she remembers the
day as December eighth of two thousand and seven, she
received a letter from supposedly the stalker, but it came
(01:30:03):
from a John Doe accusing her of a number of
religiously based sins such as you're an unworthy horror things
like that, or and so my view is that if
I introduce that type of evidence, or if somehow that
(01:30:23):
finds itself into the record, there is a strong potential,
in my view that somebody who may review these proceedings
would find that the conviction may have been tainted under
four one, four, two, and four and three. So that's
the reason why I chose not to call her. I
just don't want to run that risk right there are.
Speaker 8 (01:30:47):
I believe.
Speaker 3 (01:30:49):
The state's.
Speaker 7 (01:30:53):
So called concern is ultimately disingenuous because or you or
the evidence will show.
Speaker 12 (01:31:00):
First of all, you know, I don't need the advice.
Speaker 8 (01:31:04):
From him, and.
Speaker 12 (01:31:08):
There is exculpatory evidence.
Speaker 8 (01:31:10):
We've also that missus.
Speaker 7 (01:31:11):
Andrews or Diodone has to offer she was dating mister
Alexander at the same time that he was sleeping with
my client. The other issue is that there has been
evidence of her as a quote unquote stalker that the
state has elicited. So I believe it's disingenuous.
Speaker 3 (01:31:34):
I believe I'm.
Speaker 12 (01:31:34):
Within my I mean, he's basically.
Speaker 7 (01:31:36):
Trying to imply that there'll be an iac claim somewhere
down the road.
Speaker 12 (01:31:42):
Let the chips fall where they may.
Speaker 7 (01:31:43):
But strategically, we believe the position is that calling her
as a witness.
Speaker 12 (01:31:48):
Is appropriate and we intend to do so.
Speaker 7 (01:31:50):
So I don't know if he's asking for preclusion or
what exactly.
Speaker 12 (01:31:54):
The state's motion is, but we fully intend to do
it and to request the information I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:32:00):
Gonna asking Brady. I'll just sort of indicating for the
record why I'm not sure it's a good idea that
she'd be called. All he needs to do is to
give me a day and time, and I will inform
her of the dating time that she needs to be here.
I know that that may not be something that he
can do to right now, but I will call her.
I will speak to her today and I will indicate
to her that she is still under the ammunition and
(01:32:24):
that she is not to watch anything, just do anything
with regard to or speak to anybody with regard to
this case, and that she is going to be asked
to come.
Speaker 6 (01:32:34):
Down and testify.
Speaker 3 (01:32:35):
I will say that she has been reluctant about testifying,
and that's the reason why I indicated that I would
act as an intermediary. If they don't want me to
do that, I'm fine, but I will make a call
to let her know that she probably will be contacted
in the future.
Speaker 8 (01:32:53):
But if they want me to do it, I'll do.
Speaker 4 (01:32:55):
She's a new sing him.
Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
She is a all right, yes, and he will do
that today.
Speaker 8 (01:33:02):
Alright, you'll do that.
Speaker 15 (01:33:03):
I will give him progress or call it bestress, anything.
Speaker 1 (01:33:07):
Else for the record today.
Speaker 3 (01:33:09):
Nope, address alright, so.
Speaker 7 (01:33:13):
Ordered, And whether Corpie that once we come up with
the transcripts of the courses of the Unlocked, or.
Speaker 8 (01:33:18):
Would you like us to take him to you really
do to change.
Speaker 1 (01:33:23):
You can bring them here and she'll bring them up
to me. Fair, Okay, thank you for journed.
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