Boyfriend Cop Murder Trial - MA v. Karen Read - Day 3

• Lt Anthony Flematti - Canton FD
• Matthew Kelly - Paramedic
• Lt Francis Walsh - Canton FD
• Katie McLaughlin - Paramedic

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
H h yeah, here ye hereyou here. You all parties have then

(00:33):
anything to do before the awful firstjustice that you know at the County.
From your attendant out, this istwenty two eight two one one seven the
Commonwall versus Karen Reid. Can Ihave counsel identify themselves for the record signed

(00:55):
with the Commonwealth at the call themorning on good morning alarm mcloffin put a
good morning, miss mclevelin, andJackson on behalf of us read good morning,
good morning, mister Jackson. ElizabethLittle also on behalf of this,
good morning, miss Little, morning, Judge David Unetti for Karen Reid,
morning, Miss Yanetti, good morning, miss Read good morning. Jurors.

(01:15):
So I have to ask you thosesame three questions. Were you all able
to follow the instructions and refrain fromdiscussing this case with anyone? Everyone said
yes, SO noted affirmatively. Wereyou also able to follow the instructions and
refrain from doing any independent research orinvestigation into this case? Everyone said yes,
I noted affirmatively. Did anyone happento see here or read anything about

(01:41):
this case since we left here onTuesday? Everyone said, noor shook their
heads. So jurors, from timeto time I will give you instructions or
talk to you for a few minutesabout how you evaluate evidence. So I
just want to take a couple ofminutes today. It's part of my job
where my job is to teach thejury about the law. So in considering

(02:05):
the testimony of any witness, pleaseremember that questions are not evidence. Only
the answers, which are in factthe only part of the exchange between the
lawyer and the witness that are givenunder oath, are evidence. So if
a witness is asked, isn't ittrue that after you learn that your uncle
left you money and his will,you poisoned him? And the witness answers

(02:29):
No. Based solely on that questionand that answer, there is no evidence
that the witness has an uncle,that the uncle had a will, that
the uncle left the witness money,that the witness knew that he did,
or that the witness poisoned him.So going forward, I want you to
consider the evidence in that regard.Also, there were videos shown to you,

(02:53):
and I expect that throughout the courseof this child there'll be many more
videos shown to you. These videosare evidence, and there's audio on these
So what the video shows is foryou, folks to decide, not me,
not any of the lawyers. Whatan audio recording says is for you

(03:17):
to decide, not me, notany of the lawyers, because you find
the facts. That's your job.We all have different jobs, but finding
the facts and the case is yourjob. Okay. So with that,
please get Carmlo's witness back on thestand. Mister Flemmati jen swarming again.

(03:52):
Please thank you. Just watch youstep one. Yeah, they see there's
a right here one more time.You saw said the episode, give the
court and jury the case. Therewere getting the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth. Sohope you got it. Okay,

(04:14):
all right, mister Lalie, wheneveryou're ready, before I begin, made
this approach the witness to the returningat once sure, good morning, good

(04:34):
morning now firefighter from the model leave. When we had left off the other
day, you had arrived in thearea of thirty fourth therapy X correct correct,

(04:56):
And when you arrived there, whatif anything U did you do on
your life? So on arrival,positioning the apparatus is going to be our
most important thing, trying to figureout where our patient is and parking our
apparatus close enough, especially at nighttime, that we can light up the
scene as well as we can tryand figure out how to approach a scene,

(05:18):
because if we have to track equipmentfurther distances, it can slow our
response down. So we try andmake sure our arrival and positioning as best
as we can put it, andas far as positioning in reference to when
you first are sort of pulling upon the scene where you and the ambulance
can so I would have been thepassenger of the ambulance. Usually the tech

(05:41):
that's leading into the call will siton the passenger side to try and mentally
get ready for what's going on,whether it's reviewing protocols or just trying to
assess the information of coming across theradio so you can update your treatment plan
as much as you can before youeven see the victim. When the ambulance
comes to a stop, where it'stalk of your positions, where is what

(06:04):
if anything you see a sort ofas far as the scene is concerned.
So we have a fire apparatus thatare helping light up the scene, but
we also have two female parties goingby to the victim on the side of
the road, and going back andforth between that person and the side of
the road. And from the positionwhen you first arrive, are you able

(06:30):
to see the person on the sideof it. You can see a shape
of a person, so we knowthat's where the patient is because we were
reported that there was a party onthe side of the road, So seeing
a body shape that glued us thatthat was where we were headed. In
addition to the ambulance that you're in, how many other vehicles are on scene
when you get there? When Iget there, I believe it is engine

(06:51):
three and car five and beyond sortof the vehicles from your department, What
if any other vehicles do you seewhen you get there? If I remember
correctly, it was a just apersonal vehicle. I don't remember if there's
any police cars on sceat at thattime. And from your orientation when you
pull up, where is the bodyof positions to your left, to your

(07:14):
right or something to my left?And so after the ambulance's positions, what
do you do? So then it'sgoing to be bringing all the equipment over
to the patient side to be ableto extricate them from that situation, whether
it's a house or a street ora road be assessed where they are and
then the best tools to get themout into the ambulance to be able to

(07:35):
work effectively on the patient when youproceed over to out again at some points
subsequent later on and you were ableto identify from the person on the ground
is yes, we will try andget a general idea of the age of
the patient, the positioning of thepatient, how they were found, and

(07:57):
then when we get them into theambulance, we can start identify buying ways
to register that patient in the emergencyroom. So identifiers, whether it's a
license or witnesses, or we tryand figure out who they are so they
can get registered at the hospital.At some point when we were able to
white identify this person was that's hiswallet was in his pocket and we were
able to guard his license. Andwho were you able to white identify that?

(08:18):
That was John O'Keeffe. And sowith reference to miss o'keeff, when
you first reserve him on the ground, how far away from the street or
the roadway is that I'd say approximatelyten feet with from the road, and
how is he positioned as far ashow is his body positions on? I
have to but I believe he wasa soup hine on his back. Just

(08:41):
in general terms, First, whenyou're responding to a call of his nabors,
what are some of the protocols orthat you were speaking about. What
is it that you're seeking to door assess when we first a live So
we're trying to determine if it's acardiac arrest, whether it's a viable transport
or workable arrest. We have certainprotocols within the Massachusetts protocols for whether we

(09:05):
work the patient or we relieve thepatient on scene, and it's a police
matter if there's injuries not sustainable withlife. So we're trying to make that
assessment before we make any decisions,at least off me there just one second.
You do use the term as faras cardiac arrest, based on your
training experience, what do you whatto say on that term? So cardiac
arrest, to the best of myknowledge, is just the cessation of electrical

(09:26):
and mechanical activity in the cardiac muscle. So the cardiac muscle pumps blood throughout
the body, and when that stops, all life stops after that. Now,
in particular reference to the conditions,the weather conditions that you find yourself
in what if anything else is serveon the scale respectrum in regard to diagnosis.

(09:48):
So cardiac arrests, depending on wherethey're found, we try and figure
out what led them to be atthat point. So we're looking at weather
conditions as well. That can alsoaffect viability of resuscitation. So due to
the extreme weather extreme cold will attemptresuscitation on that patient due to the fact

(10:11):
that it will prolong the viability ofthe arrest or ability to recover from critiac
arrest afterwards. So weather is definitelya key factor. And where they are
found, and you're familiar with theterm based on your training experience called hypothermit
correct and so what if any sortof relationships with cardiac arrest have Let me
ask you this verse, what whatis your understanding of the the exposure to

(10:35):
extreme cold that lowers your core andextremity temperatures down to a below ninety five
degrees usually, And what if anyinterplay is there between hyperthermine and cardiac arrests.
So, like I said, forit'll prolong how long it'll preserve the
body after arrest. So if somebody'sfound in like a cold water situation,

(10:58):
There's been multiple reports of patients recoveringafter being drowned in cold water for up
to an hour, so viability isdefinitely improved by the cold weather. As
far as viability is concerned. Totalk about your assessment, what sort of
the steps to go into your assessment. So we're looking at obvious signs of

(11:20):
death, So we're looking at exposureof brain matter. We're looking at traumatic
injuries, decapitation, things that wouldbasically be non life sustainable. We're looking
at signs of libidity and rigor tobasically show us how long the patient has
been down for and the age ofa particular patient, what if any relationship

(11:43):
does that have to your assessment?So little show the extent of frailty patient
has. Somebody is an elderly patient, severe cancer patient, their ability to
sustain a cardiac event like that isless. So somebody that's younger middle age
will have a much better chance ofrecovery afterwards. But that would really be

(12:05):
the only key that we're looking at. And what if any observations did you
make of mister o'keith during your assessmentof him? Initiative just said he was
a middle aged male and that wasall we had. And as far as
the other things that you're talking about, as far as viability or assessitation,
what if anything to you observe withreference to mister Keith in regard to that.

(12:28):
So with the viability, we werelooking at, any rigidity or rigor
in the body, or lividity orseparation of blood, you would have a
pooling of blood or bruising. Itwould look like at the lower parts of
the body, depending on how theperson's positioned. Basically, if they're supine,
you'd have positioning or pooling underneath thebody, and then you would have
stiffness of the arms, legs,jaw, neck to be able to move

(12:54):
the body we're looking to. Ifthey don't have those things present, it's
another check mark of saying this isviable, we can work with us.
And specifically as it applies to yourassessment of mister Keith, what if anything
you wouldcall in regard to that initialassessment as far as by ability, so
his limbs were able to be moved, job was able to be moved.
The posterior of his body was readso not the indicative of libidity that we're

(13:18):
looking for, So we termed itto be a viable arrest and continue to
work. I mentioned as far assort of gathering or equipment bringing it over
to mister Keith, what if anyequipment is so equipment initially is going to
be our scoop stretcher to be ableto pick the patient out break apart put
it underneath him. We have afirst in bag, an airway bag,

(13:39):
cardiac monitor. We'll bring all thatover to the patients side to be able
to do as much as we canin that situation. But due to the
weather, we wanted to get himout of the weather because that was one
of the things that was hurting himat that point. Is getting him into
the warmer ambulance and warm beginning thewarming process. So get into an area
where we assess the patiently with goodlighting and to be able to expose the

(14:03):
patient begin the warming process. Andwhen you go to where mister o Keep
is about timp get off the roadwaywith if anyone from your apartment goes along
with so, I have Matt Kellywith me and Tim Nuttall. I also
have Frank Walsh, Katie McLoughlin andGreg wo Woodbury and Captain Robery. And

(14:28):
as far as this sort of initialassessments on the ground with mister Keel,
what if anything were sort of eachof those respect people doing. With regards
to Miss Rosin, I'd have toreview specific interventions as far as who did
what when, But that's why wedocument things immediately afterwards, so it's all
fresh. So CPR is initiated byme and als assessment as well, so

(15:01):
I can go over individual interventions ifyou'd like. But it's really cool.
And for the record, sorry,you're looking at exhibit number one sixty and
what page of that are you lookingat? I says two or five of
my EMS report, but as alsothe end forst report on the top as
well. So initially when you goover to mistero Key, how many other

(15:35):
people are sort of in that areaat that time? So in the area
we have the first responders and thenwe had the two female parties on scene.
Where were the two females in relationsSo as we're approaching the scene,
they were kind of in between usand the patient, so we try to
gather as much information as we couldfrom them as we could. So once

(15:58):
you make that determination as far asviability of ascessitative efforts sort of specifically,
what are you and the other firecard is doing in regard to those efforts
with miss. So we're beginning CPR. We're trying to establish good quality CPR,
get the patient onto our stretcher,begin an io, start medication,

(16:21):
start ventilating the patient. All thisthe all of the conditions that the body
has, we're trying to remedy throughintervention. So we're trying to breathe for
the patient. We're starting to presson his chest to do CPR to cause
his cardiac muscle to compress, spreadblurred through the heart, cardiac muscle,
cerebral brain, and we're trying toreverse what's happening in the body. Now,

(16:49):
as far as when mister o'keith youobserve him on the ground, what
if any snow would serve on oraround him in that area? So the
snow was probably up to the midacxillary point at probably halfway up his rib
point. Top of his body wasclear, and you know about how much
snow was covering his body up tothe mid accent I'd say probably about four

(17:11):
inches four to six inches. Now, as far as your observations, mister
Keith, when he's on the grounds, what if any observations did you make
as far as how he can dressfor the exposure, I'd say he was
pretty underdressed, long sleeved T shirt, jeans, nothing really substantial to be
out in that type of weather.And at this point or any subsequent point,

(17:36):
what if any observations did you makeup mister Football By the time we
so, our first priority is obviouslygoing to be treating the patient. His
clothes do matter, but it's onthe list of priorities not huge. So
by the time we figured out hewas missing one of his shoes, we
were already at the hospital at thatpoint, and you were called which of

(17:59):
his shoes missing? I don't Andas far as that missing shoot, was
that something that you or any ofthe other firefighters paramedics were needed to have
removed on scene pursu into any sortof treatment. Nothing would have been done
through the feet. It would havebeen just exposure of the patient to see
possibly the extent of frostbite if ithad started affecting extremity's fingers. Knows that

(18:25):
type of thing of hypothermic reaction.There would that be something that would have
been removed by one one of youor one of the other firefighters while he
was on the ground. If itwould have been removed, both of them
would have been removed. To assessthat it wouldn't do much good to just
remove one and leave it there onscene. Now, as far as the

(18:53):
two females that you observed, didthey sort of remain in the same position
you initially deserved them, did theymove around or something be kind of cleared
a little bit away from the scenethey I would say they moved off to
the right of the apparatus, sowe could work on the patient at that
time, And what if any conversationor what if anything did you ask either

(19:18):
of those So how the patient wasfound and what brought them to that situation
is critical. So we're trying tofigure out as much information past medical history
that we can of the patient.So we're trying to find somebody who has
knowledge of the event. So we'reas we approach the scene, begin to
talk to one of the females,what is going on? Why are they

(19:40):
there? What's going which is whathappened? And say, speaking of one
of the two females, is thatcorrect? That's correct? You see any
of those females in the Portland today. That's correct mis read. You just
identify as to where or audible quoteslast as the record offlect that education.

(20:03):
Okay. With regard to one ofthe two females that you were talking to,
was that miss read or was thatsomebody else that was miss read?
And why, if at all,were you talking to her versus some of
one of the other females that youShe seemed to be the one that was
most personally affected by it, sofigured she'd had the most information about why

(20:26):
the person was there, And whatif any observations did you make of her
in regard to your conclusion mention wasthe one of the most personally expected,
She was the most distressed, unseenobviously upset, so personally related to or
had a relationship with the person beforewe get to any conversations, What if

(20:56):
anything didn't you observes read or anyof the females doing with reference to mister's
body when you first started to comeup to this, So I would characterize
it as an attempted resuscitation. Theywere attempting to she was attempting to do
CPR, but due to their erraticbehavior, she was running back and forth
between the other female un scene andthe body back and forth, trying to

(21:18):
press on his chest, wake himup, talk to him, just to
know what it will. And asfar as your conversation with Miss Reid,
what if any questions asked in regardto as a demographics or anything else.
Do you have any information of whothis is? How are they here?

(21:42):
Tried to get any type of informationwe could from her at that time,
but with no luck. When yousay it was no luck, What if
anything, What if any response didreceived, Miss read in regard to your
question? So the only response thatwe I was personally given was just I
hit him. I hit him.Oh my god, I hit him.
And when she's saying I hit him, I hit him, Oh my god,

(22:04):
how loudly is she said? Soshe was within two feet of me,
but very loud. Any type offollow up questioning did you hit him
with your hand? Did you kickhim? What happened? She just repeated
the phrase over and over again.I hit him, I hit him.

(22:32):
And just to be clear, wheredoes this conversation occur? This was as
we're bringing equipment over to the patient. The interventions are going to be started
basically by whoever gets over to thescene first. I'm trying to gather information
as a lead paramedic, to tryand coordinate interventions and therapy, to kind

(22:55):
of holistically be the team leader inthat situation and treat transport the patient.
It was on approach to the patient, probably halfway between the ambulance and the
patient. And with regard to thattreatment of strokey you referenced earlier, pay
continue report, what were sort ofthose steps or what if anything to do?

(23:17):
And the other five partis do withregard before you mentioned that at TRON
and may I of course made awitness just referred to the report as you
go. Yes, if need be, thank you. So we try and
document through our flow chart of allthe interventions that we're doing. So CPR
is obviously going to be our firstpriority. CPR is initiated, unchanged,

(23:38):
but successful in the actual intervention itself, no complications. We do our als
assessment that we talked about of anyfurther indications of this is not a viable
arrest. We determined it was aviable arrest and we move on. They're
going to start. We'd refer toit as a bag valve mask at fifteen
meters per minute on oxygen to thepatient's not breathing on their own, so

(24:03):
we're trying to assist ventilating that withhigh flow auction as well. And easy
io, which is a needle weput into the bone of the tibia of
the patient that was on that righttibia was the first one we put in.
We're going to be putting in warmfluid. We have a warmer in
the back to be able to bringout the core temperature. Then we start

(24:27):
with epinephrine one milligram through that ioI could just stop a different one second
when you say, as far asIO put it into the lake, how
is that sort of been started?So we have a two different methods we
can do. We have a drillor power drill that drills through the outer

(24:47):
layer of the bone into the capillaryarea of the bone, the soft spongy
material, So we drill through that, or we can do it by hand.
If that fails, and when itcomes to that in netron, what
is sort of the purpose of thatmedication and what are you trying to do
with that so that medication will improveit's a vaso constrictor it'll cause the vasculature

(25:12):
to constrict, so it'll improve thequality or effectiveness on the cardiac muscle,
cardiac basculature, and the cerebral area. So as far as the administration of
epinephrin is concerned, is that somethingthat's done once or more than once?
And is there a protocol for that? So it's going to be cereal every
three to five minutes during the cardiacarrest to try and bring them over to

(25:37):
the hospital. So it continues thatentire time unless there is a rhythm change
or that can change our algorithm ofhow we approachivation if there's a rhythm regain
or return of spontaneous circulation. Andso how many times or what times was
the epinephrine administer viad io to thestills? So I have epinephrine at six
twenty six thirty six thirty five,six forty six, forty five, And

(26:07):
when was that first administer? Wouldthat have been at some point when he
was outside of the ambulance on theground or in the ambulance or something else
to be dependent on transport time.So our first we're at patient's side at

(26:36):
six fifteen transport six twenty seven,so best estimation would have been inside of
the ambulance at that point. I'msorry I interrupted you before, but after
sort of the introduction of the epinephrin. What affen to give you any other
firefighters After the first round, Yeah, so first round of epineph After that

(27:00):
we would drop in what's called OPA. That would be to push the tongue
out of the way, open upthe airway to improve our bag valve mass
so it has an open way toget the oxygen to the lungs. We
begin external warming, stripping the patient, getting the heat turned up in the
back of the ambulance. We wouldthen switch over from manual CPR done by

(27:22):
hand to a mechanical CPR device toensure adequate consistent CPR compressions of the chest.
It was a Lucas device. Putthat on the patient and then we
continue with another round of EPI.Patients starting to warm up at this time,
so we would do suction at thatpoint to try and suction fluid out

(27:45):
of the airway to improve ventilation efforts. Another round of EPI is done,
have another suction, this time througha deep suction via the indo traychial tube.
Sorry. At six twenty two afterwarming were we intubated the patient.

(28:07):
We have a seven and a halftwo to paste At twenty seven centimeters and
then verified through various means through chestrise, oscultation, waveform and title CO
two. So we had complications listedas patient vomiting. Aspirating Suction was then
done with a rigid tip suction device. After successful intubation, we then suctioned

(28:33):
via French tube through the airway establishedjump back up to six point thirty one.
Another io line was established on theopposite tibia on the left side,
and then another three rounds of EPIand then arrival at the hospital. Was
the rival time at the hospital thatdestination was six forty five? What hospital

(29:04):
was that? Again? I'm sayinggood Samaritan Medical Center. It's harm that
you using your report calls and I'llprobably put to this like a systalling.
Is that correct? Yeah, Asistily is going to be a cardiac rhythm
whether there's no electrical activity in theheart and is referred to as flatline.
What if any observations did you makein your treatment diagnosis in regards to Key

(29:26):
as far as existently, so,that was the rhythm he was found in
from initial rhythm I have on theEKG at six thirty two as a sisterly,
So we basically observe that for anychanges, whether it's an increase of
electrical activity, regain of adequate pulses, all that can kind of be hinted

(29:47):
at with the cardiac rhythm, andthen we would change our algorithm based on
whether we go down the ross protocolor we continue down the cardiac arrest protocol,
and whether it's on scene or it'sin the ambulance. Is there's sort
of a division a task or visionof a different skill that's being employed in
patient care. So patient care willhave to do with the level of training

(30:07):
and also proximity on the patient.Where you get into the ambulance is just
logistically if you have the training,it's not a huge open er. It's
a small environment, so we tryand not have people jump over each other
as best as we can. Andif your call, who was sort of
doing what in relation to treatment ofthese patients. So in the back of

(30:30):
the ambulance, specifically in the backof the ambulance, Tim not All was
managed in the airway. I wasthe team lead that was kind of coordinating
all of the interventions. Matt Kellywas assisting in gathering equipment doing CPR before
the mechanical device was placed on.Basically they asked act as an assistant to

(30:53):
hand equipment, place things in strategicareas around so we can actually work without
having to go get those physical thingsourselves. Now, as far as communicated
removal of mister piece clothing once inthe andulance direct yes, what was it
about, like the sort of thecondition of the clothing that led to the

(31:14):
removal of that. So removal ofclothing is actually pretty standard for any cardiac
arrest, any traumatic injuries. We'rebasically trying to get further clues because this
is all happening very quickly, sowe're trying to get more evidence of why
are they here. We're looking forextremity injuries, crush injuries, bruising,
anything that would that we could documentthat we could pass on to the emergency

(31:37):
room staff and doctors. So wewould strip most most patients and as far
as we involved personally, as faras sort of the cutting of the clothing
and yes, patient, yes,And on removal of the clothing, what
if anything that you deserve as tosort of the condition of the clothing or
texture of the clothing. Conditions seemedpretty well intact, but just wet and

(32:01):
cold and what if any relationship withthe cold clothing had to any of the
diagnoses that you were running through inregardless those it would really just be the
exposure to the weather would be ourbiggest trigger off of that, or if
you had protruding injuries through the clothing, compound fractures, things like that.

(32:24):
The clothing was intact, but weknew it was wet, it was cold,
so as we stripped things off ofhim, we can see underneath basically
if there are any sub Not everyfracture breaks through the skin. Not everything
causes obvious things, obvious signs.So as we strip the patient we can
begin to further assess. Take youback just for a second through outside of

(32:45):
the annuleence, what if anything specificallywere you were able to observe with reference
to any injuries. Injuries are prettytough to see out side of the ambulance
just due to the weather. Dothe lighting We have seen lighting on the
ambulance as well, But let meask you yes, as far as what

(33:12):
was what any difference did you knowbetween the lighting and the BacT and the
ambulance versus when you're with miss Sohe was still out in the weather at
that point, so bleeding wasn't reallyobvious at that point. As soon as
we get him into the back ofthe ambulance, then we start noticing hemorrhage
from different areas of his body.And when you say hemorrhage from different areas,
which areas is so mostly from hismouth, his eyes, nose.

(33:43):
Yeah, And just to be clearfor the record, when you use the
term hemorrhage, based on your trainingexperience, what do you do you understand
that bleeding external bleeding? Now youmentioned that there was some suctioning of miss
keys here, what was that correct? Correct? And what I specifically was
suction from the suction from the airwaywas mostly blood blood spewed them. And

(34:09):
as far as how much, whatif any, what if anything? You
have to sort of measure how muchof blood was suction of their way.
So we have a canister that hasmarks of mill leaters, so we can
degermine as we're suctioning how much isin that container at different times, and

(34:30):
about how much based on mass withsuction from So the initial suctioning with the
rigid tip was about one hundred andfifty millimeters and subsequently so that would have
been above the airway in the mouth. In that type of area we established
the intubation and then deep suctioning withthat soft tip through the intubation tube would

(34:54):
have been another fifty milliliters of fluid. Now with reference to you mentioned to
some observations in this rose path,correctly, So you mentioned some observations you
made earlier reference to Miss ross Path. Yes, and what were those against?
So that would have been redness ofthe skin and the posterior of the

(35:15):
body. What if any significances thatI have to do as far as the
observation, So redness from the skin, if it's general across the body can
mean certain things. If it's justa particular area. And due to the
fact that it was cold outside,that would have been the initial stages of
frostbite or exposure to cold. Andas far as the remainder of mister Rokey's

(35:38):
body, what if any other observationsdid you make in which areas do you
make those observations in regards to theinitial state. So for as far as
the cold exposure, cold exposure,we're looking at the most exterior parts.
Extreme cold exposure can lead to frostnip and frostbite, and in areas the

(36:00):
first affected areas are going to beyour fingers, your ears, your nose,
your toes, that type of Sothat was a cold, waxy,
pale, stark white substance, basicallyyour condition of his skin and on each
of those areas that you just described. Yes, now sort of up in

(36:24):
the area of mister o'keees, hadhe mentioned some bleeding from the eyes and
yes, and beyond that, whenif any observations that can make of any
other sort of injuries to his heaters. So his eyes were pretty well swollen.

(36:45):
We were trying to clear areas ofblood to figure out if there are
any contusions around the head. Ibelieve there was a contusion on his forehead.
Also had some markings on his extremitiesas well. And just as far
as your understanding based on it andexperience, when to use the word and
choose and what do you understand thatcruise And before we get to the extremities,

(37:07):
what if any observations that you makeas far as the strokes ap edwmin
we noted as significant as distension orswelling of the belly, And what if
any significance that happens to you inregard to It's another of our detailed assessments.
We go through the body in amore detailed way to try and find

(37:29):
more clues that we can pass onfor the assessment. Distension in the belly
could be due to trauma or bloating. It could be those are usually our
biggest triggers for distension. Now,you mentioned as far as the extremities are
concerned, what if anything to observeas far as injuries and miss rokeies.

(37:52):
So we're looking at so we hadthe cold rigid fingers, hands, feet,
and we had multiple dry blood lacerationsto the right arm. Recall specifically
where on his rookie's right arm wouldhave been his upper arm. And you
mentioned driving. Is that correct?Yes, So these were not actively bleeding

(38:15):
at the time to observe them.Now, as far as being dry blood
versus ex actively leading, what ifanything does that indicates you as far as
sort of time, So, wehad active bleeding from other areas in the
body. So the fact that ithad already stopped and clotted, I would
assume that would have been several hoursbefore the incident that led him to be

(38:37):
there, but I would guess earlierin the evening. Now, as far

(38:58):
as history, concerns your attempts onscene, and then what if any attempts
were made subsequent when you were inthe ambulance to obtain any sort of history
of homist either or what if anyand causing individs you observed Once we'd get
the patient into the ambulance, therewas no family, no bystanders in the

(39:19):
back of the ambulance, So thenit's going to be solely based on physical
assessment and within sort of the teamof firefighters that you had. If anyone
did you direct to try and painthat information volument back, so that would
have been Katie McLoughlin. And whatdid you ask this McLoughlin. So Katie
was one of our senior paramedics atthe time, so we had enough skilled

(39:43):
hands working on the patient at thattime, so to direct her, I
wasn't able to get as much informationand still had a skill to do,
or still had a task to doto run the cardiac arrest. So I
pushed, I didn't push. Idirected misread over to Katie to try and
gather more information as to why theywere there. If you could get any

(40:05):
more information about who he was,events leading to the injury, how long
he was down for any type ofinformation and then moved on to the patient
at that point, and so Firefightof the Blacklins having this conversation outside of
the ambulance, is that correct,That's correct. This is going on while
you're inside of the ambulance actively readingMiss roy. It was a very quick
process. So I start the conversation, wasn't productive, wasn't moving forward,

(40:32):
moved her over to Fighter Fighter McLaughlincontinued on to the patient and then started
treatment. Move the patient in andthen Katie came into the back of the
ambulance to help. So it's avery quick process. Now, as far

(40:55):
as Miss Rokey's eyes were concerned,what if any observations further did you make
As far as miss so both eyeswere swollen and bleeding, What if any
observations were able to make of hispupils? I'm sorry what pupils? So

(41:15):
I've documented as four millimeters and nonreactive. What if any significance is those
observations as far as four millimeters notat So we're looking for equality between the
two. So signs of bleeding canbe demonstrated by unequal pupils, or if
they were restricted, could lead usto believe it was as a result of

(41:37):
an opioid interaction, but we're lookingat whether they react to light as well.
If there's brain activity, if there'sstill something causing the body to react,
you'll have some type of pupil arein response. So we shine light.
There were no response, so itwas fixed and at four millimeters.
Now at some point you leave thescene in rooms to Good Samaritan. Is

(41:59):
that correct? And who is continuingtreatment of back in the ambulance transport So
back of the ambulance and transport thenfirefighter Kelly, Firefighter not All and myself
and so if anyone was driving inthe ambulance between fair View and good Smath,
so that'll be determined by basically justpositioning on the engine. So the

(42:20):
step driver for that position would thendrive as the detailed person over to the
ambulance. That was Firefighter McLaughlin.Now, during the transport from Fairview to
this Maridan, what if anything areyou and the other fireparties in the back
of the ambulance doing as far ascontinuing treatment. So we started transport at

(42:44):
six twenty seven, So between sixtwenty seven and six forty five, treatments
included epinephrine, additional suctioning, managingthe airway, placing another intra cs line,
and then three additional rounds of epinephrinewhile the mechanical CPR is continuing CPR

(43:07):
and during the course of the transport, what if any changes in mister Key's
status as far as the cardiac arrestof the breathing occurs during the transport.
No changes. Now that time thatit took to get from Fairview Tod's married
him is at sort of a typicaltransport time, not normally due to the

(43:31):
weather. It was pretty slow driving, even though the ambulance is a smaller
vehicle than the engine. Slow transportcompared to normal. And during the course
of the transport, what if anycommunication are you having with Goods Marining in
regard to mister Keith and his eventualarrival. With every medical that goes on,

(43:52):
we try to give the hospital staffheads up basically of what's coming in.
We'll have different alert that we wouldgive them, whether it's a krdiac
arrest, a stroke, a STEMIto have certain appropriate teams come in and
be ready, whether it's a traumaalert. There's different specialties within the hospital
that'll treat those different particular cases,so we call them five to ten minutes

(44:15):
prior to give that team time toget down into the emergency room to get
ready to work. When you arriveat chrismridan with anyone whoere you met by
and sort of what happened with regardsto miss So we're continuing interventions from the
ambulance through the bay into their coldroom where then met by registration a registered

(44:37):
nurse and the doctor that took careof the patient as well as a team
of other assistants and CNAC and wheredo you sort of uses it? We
go with missho Key for how doesthat work? Yep. So that's referred
to as a transfer of care.So there's different people. Like I said,
it's a team base where different peopleare in charge of different things.

(44:57):
We'll have the nurse in charge that'sin charge of docum maintaining documenting our interventions
that have been done so far,time of down the patient was down,
and then she starts documenting all thedinner different interventions that were done by the
hospital staff as well. They alsogive a report to the doctor who's then
taking over as lead for the cardiacarrest. They're going to start issuing orders

(45:20):
for the patient and treatment, andthen you have registration that will get the
information to register the patient that theycan tie all of their interventions to.
And during that sort of process ofexchange of information and things of that nature,
what if anything that you learn inregard to core body temperature so to
add that assessment, I believe itwas core body temperature ad degrees, What

(45:46):
if any significance does that have inregard to the typical core body temperature.
Typical core body temperature is going tobe in the high nineties. We're body
temperature being in the at eighty witha rectal temp of core temp is going
to be extreme hypothermia. Now yourrecord smarning for a certain time correct forty

(46:19):
quick and at that point in timewhile you were at coudsmarning that initial time,
what if anything you learn as faras status or what it happened.
So, as we talked about beforewith the hypothermia and the extreme cold,
are going to work that for anextended period of time. Most cardiac arrests,
I will try and hang out bythe patient or in the area.

(46:44):
As new staff come through, differentthings are found. The doctors and nurses
might have follow up questions, soI try to stay available as an asset
that they can bounce those questions offat least for ten or fifteen minutes afterwards,
to make sure the whole process iscompletely transferred from all the interested parties.
And during that course of time,what if anything you learned us or

(47:06):
you eventual status of Miss We didn'tlearn anything at while we were at the
hospital. We then cleared the hospital, returned back quarters to decon the ambulance
and to replenish all the equipment thatwe had used to get back in service
and move on with the shift.At some point during the course of the

(47:29):
shifts, I mean you have occasionto go back to me personally. No,
it would have been for an additionalmedical call. If there was any
calls for service afterwards. Would yourecall whether or not you went back to
the Good Smarna for any additional medicalcalls or anything in that I don't recall.

(47:52):
So if I could direct your attentionto screams over there, Miss Gilman
in fact that he's have an exhibitnumber nine, and so directing your attention

(48:15):
of what's in previously marked as theSID number nine on the screen, you
recognize what's in that photograph in thehouse. It's at the house that you're
responded to, zach r and missGilman. If I could have exhibit number

(48:35):
Miss Killman, if I could haveExhibit number or fortunate againswer what's stuff on
screen? Recognize what that is?I see blood snow, general area,
not sure and last year's Gillman,if I can have Exiven number eighth and

(49:00):
again, Firefighter for Money? Doyou recognize what's picked up on screen as
Exhibit number eighteen? Yes, approachwinning from Yes much so, sir,
I'm going to handle a laser pointjust basically just press on the your directions,

(49:24):
so Firefighter for Money. Within thisphotograph up on the screen is Exhibit
eighteen. Do you see the areain which you observed on the strow keys
flying on the ground in the firstrock. Yes, and using that laser
pointer, could you directly jury's attentionto wearing this photograph you observe and initially
it would have been in this area. Okay, and one moment on yes,

(49:52):
if you can turn to thank younothing further for this witness at this
time, right cross examination, thankyour own Yeah, good morning, good

(50:13):
morning. I'd like to start sortof at the beginning when you first arrived
at the location, you indicated thatyou could in fact see the body from
your perspective. Correct, you couldsee a body. Yes, and you
I think you indicated the shape ofthe body. Couldn't tell if it was
female or male, but obviously lookedlike a human figure. Yes, Okay,

(50:37):
that drew your attention to the leftside of the ambulance as you were
approaching. Correct. Yes, andyou're sitting on the right side, which
means you're sort of the furthest awayfrom that figure from the perspective of the
ambulance and the ambulance. Yes,and you had no problem taking out that
figure in the snow, so figuringthe snow. We had a good distance
between the ambulance and the engine.So. Yes. And you indicated that

(51:00):
the figure in the snow was ontop of the snow, if you will,
with some snow accumulating up the bodyof the of the individual. Yes,
but he was not covered in snow. There was like a mound of
snow over this figure. There aremounds of snow in the area, but
not over the patient. Due tothe wind, there snow drifts in the

(51:21):
air now and his clothes were darkas compared to the white snow. Yes.
I want to ask you a coupleof quick questions about some of the
last conversation you had with mister Lowleyabout the injuries. You did note a
that mister've had a laceration over hisright eye, correct, over his right

(51:43):
eye, over his right eye,A contusion over the eye, okay,
And your definition of the contusion isbruising. Was it also swollen? There
was swelling around the eyes and alittle bit of contusion and bruising around.
Did you see an actively bleeding lacerationover his right eye? I don't.
You don't remember that? What abouthis left eye? Both eyes were pretty

(52:07):
well swollen shut What about not fromthe nostrils but on the skin on the
nose? Did you know the lacerationor multiple lacerations on the nose. So
due to the bleeding that was comingfrom the oribiss is trying to clean the
area and find exactly where it's fromis sometimes difficult, So we can just
say it was bleeding in that area, okay. So you can't define as

(52:30):
you see if you don't remember ifit was bleeding from the nostril or from
a laceration on these. I believeit was the nostrils. Okay. Are
you Are you saying that there wasno laceration on the skin of the nose
or you just don't recall it onthe top of the nose. No,
I don't know. I'm sorry,on the top of the nose, I
don't recall. You don't recall.Okay. With regard to his abdomen,

(52:52):
you indicated that it was distended medicalterm for swallow. You said that that
could be from trauma or it couldbe just bloating. Correct. Did you
notice any contusions on his appom No, any skin that was upgraded, not
cut, So there's no bruising,no contusion, but there was a distinsion

(53:16):
correct, Yes, so there wasno visible trauma to the abdomen. Visible
trauma doesn't really matter to internal trauma. It's not always indicative one way or
the other. So my question was, did you see any visible trauma on
his abdomen? Okay, But youdid notice that it was bloated, that
it was descended yet Okay, Iwant to talk to you for a second

(53:39):
about if I could shift gears aboutthe conversation that you indicated to mister Lowley
that you had with this Read.You were also asked about that conversation at
the grand jury when satisfied correct Correctly, you testified that the as the lead
Mara paramedic, you were specifically tryingto get it as much information from my

(54:00):
client Ms Read as you possibly couldconcerning the victim and how the victim ended
up being there. Correct. Youindicated in no particular order that you asked
questions like how do you know one? Correct? How did you get here?

(54:22):
What happened? Correct? Is thereany additional information you can give me
about what happened to this person?Okay, So that was a conversation that
you were personally engaged in with myclient in order to gather as much data,
if you will, about what youwere dealing with. Correct. Correct.

(54:43):
But your focus was when you firstarrived. Your focus is I need
to attend to the patient correct.Correct, like conversations, notwithstanding, I
need to deal with what's in frontof me, which is an unconscious man
in the snow, dressed in acorrect and possibly freezing to death. But

(55:05):
you did say that you had enoughof a conversation with Miss Read that she
answered you and said something to theeffect of I hit him. Oh my
god, I hit him. Correct. So then you followed up on that
conversation, correct as much as Icould. Yes, a matter of fact,
you said that you asked her additionalelaborating questions. Correct, Well,

(55:27):
did you hit him in the faceor did you kick him? Did you
hit him with your hand? Okay, So that's a conversation that you're having
with with miss read face to face. You're talking to her, You're looking
her in the eyes, she's lookingyou in the eyes. You're standing still,
and you're attempting as best you canto converse with this woman so that

(55:50):
you can gather as much information asyou possibly can as you attend to the
victim. Correct. You indicated thatthat conversation lasted long enough that you the
conversation was frustrated by the fact thatyou weren't getting information that was helpful to
you. So you turned that conversationover to Katie McLoughlin. Objection sustained,
Ask it a different way? Sure, did you have? Was your conversation

(56:15):
in some way in your mind?And when I use the word frustrated,
I mean it was just you weren'tgetting the information that you were seeking.
Correct. It wasn't productive. Okay, better way to put it, I'll
use your word. That conversation wasunproductive enough that you then moved the conversation
over to Miss McLaughlin, right correct, Firefighter McLaughlin. And once Firefighter McLaughlin

(56:36):
engaged Miss Read, you then beganto attend to the patient again. So
the patient was already being treated bythe other personnel on scene. Okay.
I started the conversation, realized itwasn't going anywhere. I had other responsibilities.
Regardless of how they ended there,they still need a treatment in transport,
so that began my priority, andmoved her over to try and get

(56:57):
as much information while treatment was beingdone. What part of the treatment were
you responsible for? All of it? Sorry, that's a great answer to
a very vague question. What physicallywere you doing with mister O'Keefe in which
particular moment when you first arrived andattended to him and physically touched him?

(57:22):
In other words, were you theairway person, were you the cardiac person?
Were you doing chess compressions? Wereyou squeezing the bag? I would
have been doing chess compressions initially untilI could delegate that task to somebody else,
Okay, and chess compressions. I'mgoing to butcher this because I've never
got trained other than my little toddler. They look a little like what I'm

(57:43):
doing now. Correct. Correct,And I indicated palm over the one,
palm over my hand, arms extendedand you can see my shoulders moving up
and down in a rhythmic fashion.Correct. So if I didn't answer,
correct, yes, weeks ago?What were you wearing? Were they wearing

(58:06):
my uniform? I didn't expect thatone, did you? That was a
different heavy winter coat? Okay?Uniform does do paramedics wear sometimes yellow?
Bright yellow for safety? Yes?Were you wearing a bright yellow heavy winter
coat? I don't recall. Ihave a few different coats, got it?
Do you remember what miss McLaughlin waswearing? I don't. Okay.

(58:30):
That conversation that you had with missRead at the scene that had to have
lasted I'm not guessing it was verylong, but it had to have lasted
a minute at most. Once youfinished your conversation with this Read, did

(58:52):
you then start attending specifically to thechest impressions and the high level CPR that
we've heard so much about from yourcolleague as you're doing CPR on the scene.
That high level CPR, high qualityCPR was mister o'keeff then moved to
the scoop, which would then facilitategetting on a gardenlrrect That gurney has been
moved between a couple of patrol carscruisers and into the ambulance. Correct.

(59:16):
Correct. Once you were in theambulance, the first priority is to get
this person warm, is that right? First priority is always going to be
CPR. The secondary would be gettingthem warmed up. Okay. So obviously
when you got into the ambulance,you can shut the doors. There's a
heteron in the ambulance. Yes,you never came back out of that ambulance

(59:37):
after you got mister O'Keefe into theambulance, did you no, Okay?
And you were in there with firefighternot all at the time, not all,
and Kelly and the firefighter McLaughlin wasoutside the ambulance doing whatever she was
doing, correct, okay initially,and then she came in afterwards to obs.

(59:57):
Yeah, and did I hear you? Correctly? When the firefighter the
Golaflin got in the ambul and shetook over the driving responsibilities. So there's
two different apartments. They're not connected. There's a little window between the two
areas. So she assisted with interventionsin the back, and then after we
had established everything we needed to onscene to begin transport, she then got
out and then started driving. Thankyou. I'd like to play, but

(01:00:23):
the first i'd like to have marked. I think it's already been marked Exhibit
three seventy nine. It's a video, a snippet of a video. It's
probably three minutes long and stuff thatlong. I'd like to play that portion
of the video for you. Andwhen it's done, firefighter nod up in
firefighter notdal Sorry looking at the wrongnote. Firefighter Fimati, which is not
that easy to say, did agreat job. I'm going to ask you

(01:00:45):
to show me exactly where on thevideo if you can that you have this
conversation for the laser pointer. That'smy client. I'll yes, you could
use the laser pointer as you wish. This is just to orient you.
If I made your owner the topthis, I can do this. There

(01:01:06):
we go. The top is adash cam from one cruiser, so I'm
want to see I'm going to seecounsole at sidebar for a second place for
this, uh until we pause it, I'm going to ask you to focus
your attention on the top dash campvideo. Actually I need to see a

(01:01:37):
consolate sideby again, folks, willtake a fifteen minute recess please, Hey
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(01:02:00):
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(01:03:52):
muted. Why doesn't councils come tosibi. The jurors are coming in.

(01:05:00):
Yeah h h yah h yeah,yeah, I just got back. Sure

(01:05:29):
mm hmm. Okay, thank yourhonor. I've heard from Flamanti. I
want to draw your attention to thetop video. Uh and I will I
may pauseitive and ask you a coupleof questions. This awesome. Did you

(01:05:56):
see a person run into the screen? Run into the frame reather from three
left? Yes? Who's that?I don't worfle Okay, let's go in
and pause. I want to drawyour attention to the left side of the
top video. Did you see somebodywearing a bright and yellow jacket? If
you could rewind it. I lookat that air what I played ford and

(01:06:19):
see if you see that? Yeah? And do you recognize that person?
I see a yellow jacket. Ican't tell you who it is? Okay,

(01:06:39):
based on your memory? Have youseen this before? By the way,
no, based on your memory,is that the approximate position that mister
O'Keefe was in when you were inor your uh your colleagues made in contact?
Approximately, I'd say a little bitmore to the left, that would
be okay, Glen plant Posie.The person enter from screen left into the

(01:07:17):
frame. It looks like a differentperson. Yes, the that person right
there looks like a long haired female. Does that appear to be my client
from this angle? I couldn't tellyou. Okay, go ahead and plant
pause. You see person wearing yellowlight there the loft side of the screen.

(01:07:43):
If you're telling me that's a personshort, No, he's not telling
you, So ask the question.If you don't see it, you don't
see it. If you do,you do. I can't tell what that
shape is. Okay. Can youtake a look, keep your eyes focused
on that and tell me if yousee that that figure doing awesome? Okay,

(01:08:06):
do you recognize that figure now,Mike, I can't recognize the figure,
but it looks like an up anddown rhythmic motion. Okay, indicate
CPR? Would that be you?I couldn't tell you. Is the time
accurate? There's six thirteen? I'mjust asking you what you're recognized on the
video. I couldn't tell you ifthat was myself not? Was there somebody

(01:08:28):
else doing CPR? Multiple people rotatethrough CPR, so, yes, who's
responsible for doing the chess compressions?Whoever is closest to that area. We're
all trained for that skill. Okay, I'm asking in this particular case.
Yes, everybody's trying. Did testifyearlier that you were the one doing the
chest compressions? I said I wasone of them. Yes, does that
appear to be you doing the chestcompressions? It could be I'm not sure

(01:08:51):
that's good. Okay, stop it. Do you see the persons in the
middle of the screen there? Yes? Does that appear to be my client?
I can't tell h M h Asee individuals entering from screenwright? Yes?

(01:09:34):
Does that appear in the yellow jacket? That build would have been uh,
probably it could have been firefighter Kelly, or could have been McLaughlin.
Who's the person's trailing the journey?Right? I can't tell a than the

(01:10:00):
hood just obscure that figure. Didyou see that figure standing on the other
side of the person? No,plan passive? The activity that's going on
just to the sort of left sideof the SUV in the frame. Can

(01:10:26):
you describe for the jurors what thatactivity is? So that would be lowering
the stretcher to get ready to loadthe patrement. Yeah, that was positive.
Now this person now appears to befacing the camera. Do you now
recognize that I don't go ahead,awesome, Can you focus your attention on

(01:10:56):
that individual in the yellow jacket.What does that person seem to be doing?
Which part of the CPR that's chesscompressions? Sorry, I didn't mean
to talk over compressions. I wantto make sure that Nancy can get down
what we're both saying. So whichpart of the CPR chest compressions? Thank

(01:11:20):
you? Is that you? Idon't know? Okay, at this point,
you have no idea whether or notyou don't remember whether you were the
one doing chess compressions when he wasmoved from the ground to the journey.
I don't recall, but you didearlier testify you were doing chest impressions.
I did at some point during thiscompass. Okay, in the entire length

(01:11:40):
of this video, do you seeanybody else trade off from that person doing
test compressions from the time the personwas on the ground to the journey or
is that the same person? Hecould be the same person. I'm not
sure. Would you say that wasprobably you jacked? Disregard that, h

(01:12:13):
M. I want to direct yourattention to this person appears to be a
fighter firefighter in the middle. Doyou see that person yes, rejection.
Maybe the objection sustained. I'll seecouncil sidebar. Okay. Yes, take

(01:12:43):
a look at the person with theyellowing in the middle of the straight do
you recognize that as a fire jacket? And Bill, I would guess it
was either firefighter Glly or so.We don't want you to guess. I
would My best estimation would be firefighterGloss firefighter McLaughlin. Yes, okay.

(01:13:09):
Recognize the person in the yellow jacketto the right of who you just described
as firefighter McLoughlin. Now is thatwhat is that person? Appear a parent?
My guess would be I'm sorry,I guess, uh, not even
an estimate. Do you know?I don't know? Next question okay,

(01:13:33):
awesome. At that point, didyou join your colleagues in placing the angulance?
Yes? Okay. Based on that, did that appear to be you
following the gurney in the yellow jacketover to the angulance. Yes, okay.
And who is the lead firefight?When I say lead, I mean

(01:13:54):
the one to the right leading thegurney on the front side of the gurney.
I'm not sure sure, okay oneof your colleagues though, Yes,
what did you do. Once youleft the frame, where did you go?
That would have been into the ambulanceand as you went earlier indicated Shully
Hills correct, correct, okay,and you never came back out. Okay.

(01:14:15):
I'd like to draw your attention tothe lower video and we're just gonna
let that play for a couple ofminutes and see if you recognize anything.
I'll ask you the positive just asecond, awesome, I'm gonna ask you

(01:14:50):
to look up to the top video. You see what appears to be a
person wearing yellow to the right,Yes, but that's who that is.
H m h m. Look atthe lower video. Do you see what

(01:15:30):
appears to be a vehicle in themiddle of the scring? What does that
as an ambulance? Does that appearto be the ambulance that you arrived at
and that's the ambulance that you tookmis'es doors are closed? Yes? Are
you in the ambulance at this point? I'm not sure? Well, this
was wann't as get a different way? This was running continuously, no pauses.

(01:15:51):
You've already taken mister O'Keefe to theambulance. Would you have gotten in
the ambulance? I don't, reclewell, I mean you're not standing outside
the angles. If you know theanswer, I don't know. Next question,
I have no idea whether you're inthe ambulance or not at this point.
At this point, now, okay, would you have gone anyplace else

(01:16:11):
when you left the frame? Couldhave been to gather equipment, but for
certain, I don't know. Wherewould mister o'keeffah been in the ambulance again,
I don't know for certain, couldhave been or was in the ambulance
at this time, I don't know. Okay, Well, stop, okay.

(01:16:35):
Taking a look at both screens,you see the group of people,
including the individual with the yellowjacket themodest string. Yes, that appear to
be the same. From a differentangle, the same group of people,
including the person with yellow jacket onthe top screen. Yes. Who was
the person that was directed to getthe medical history from my client McLaughlin?

(01:16:58):
You believe that's miss McFall. No, you don't think that's her. I'd
have to rewind to know where shewent. Well, let me ask you
a couple of other questions. I'min the bottom screen. Yes, you
see a woman with long hair padingit to the police officer. That appeared
to be my client, Yes,an individual with a fire jacket on right,

(01:17:24):
Yes, and she was. MissMcLaughlin was directed to get medical history
and interview my client. Correct,Yes, that appears to be what she's
doing right there, chaps are on. At this point, where do you

(01:17:45):
believe you were? Now? Idon't remember. I think you might have
been in the ambulance. I don'tremember it, Tess Tight earlier, and
this has been a continuously running videoon the top. Test Tight earlier that
when you left the screen that gurneyyou got in the ambulance. Correct,
We had it that way? Yes, so firefire flamati, stop trick.

(01:18:05):
Question where did you go when youleft the screen? It would have been
to either gather equipment or to putthe patient in the ambulance. Okay,
when did the What equipment did youneed together? It would have been anything
that was left by the patient's side, whether it was a first in bag,
airway bag, any other equipment issue. You were doing chess compressions,

(01:18:27):
I didn't state that. You didn'tsay that. I said I did chess
compressions at some point. I didn'tsay I did them continuously want to call?
So you just put John keep inthe back of the ambulance and went
to look for some equipment. Notwhat I said. So chess compressions were
done continually throughout. Whether they weredone by me or by another provider,
I can't tell you specifically. Sowhen you left the screen and John o'keep

(01:18:50):
is on the gurney, you're engagedin vital life saving by the life saving
endeavor. Correct. Yes, thathad to have been your focus. Correct,
that was at the time. Andyou wanted to get him out of
the cold the weather, yes,because it was implemented it was freezing out.
Correct. Yes, So you wantedto put him in the ambulance,

(01:19:11):
right, And you wanted to continueCPR because, in your words testified on
direct examination, you believe that theremight be some viability left. Yes,
So CPR and life saving measures wereabsolutely vital at that point. Yes,
you didn't go find equipment. Yougot an ambulance, didn't you. Yes,

(01:19:32):
So at this point you're in theambulance. Correct, At this point
I don't know communicated You never gotback out of the ambulance after you got
in, correct, I don't believe. So, Now, did you see

(01:19:55):
any place in that video where youhad any sort of detailed conversation with my
client. Now, did you seeany place in that video where you engaged
my client and said how did youget here? What happened? She said?
I hit him? And you saidhow'd you hit him? All the

(01:20:15):
stuff that you satisfied earlier too,I didn't see that in the video.
Now, you indicated in a policereport during an interview that you had with
You're a Putnik February eighth, thatmy client said I hit him? Correct?

(01:20:45):
You remember having that conversation with SergeantPutnick. I don't recall the conversation,
but I'm trusting that your records areactor. Is it true that during
that conversation you indicated to set thatquote, Katie spoke with Karen Reid.
Katie is Katie who? Katie spokewith Karen Reid collecting medical history for the

(01:21:08):
victim, and was also told byKaren the last time she saw the victim
was one am that morning. Thatis when Anthony, who's Anthony would have
been myself. That is when Anthonyheard Karen say I hit him. I
hit him. So what you toldSergeant Budnick I don't recall. Does it

(01:21:29):
appear that this is the time firefighterfrom Manti that Katie McLaughlin is getting a
medical history from my client are attemptingto I can't tell from the video.
I do know, however, thatduring this time you're in an ambulance,
probably thirty or forty feet away withthe doors closed. I don't know,

(01:21:55):
but you certainly don't see yourself inthat frame. Doesn't appear to you.
Now, if we're done with thevideos, can we take it down place?
Of course, yes, I thinkwe are finished. Thank you on

(01:22:16):
you were the lead firefighter on thatteam that night. Correct, lead paramedic,
lead, sorry, lead paramedic.Thank you. You understood obviously the
gravity of hearing a statement like Ihit him some sort of an explanation about
what may have happened to the victim. Correct, That statement could potentially have

(01:22:42):
direct relationship to our a direct relationalimpact on how life saving measures are done
by the medical personnel that you turnedthe victim over to. You testified at
the grand jury that you wanted onceyou got to the hospital, you wanted
to be as quote unquote helpful aspossible when you handed over the patient.
You said said you actually stayed atgood Smaritan for an additional ten to twenty

(01:23:04):
minutes, which is your habit incases like this, because you wanted to
be quote unquote an asset to themedical intervention team. Correct. That team
includes the doctors and nurses that weretrying to provide life saving services to serve.
But you never relayed to a singledoctor or a single nurse a single

(01:23:26):
word about a woman who said I'dhit him. Did you documentation for us
ends at transfer of patient care?As far as my memory, I do
remember relaying that information to the doctorsand nurses. You do. Yes?
Have you ever testified tip about that? Ever? Never never been asked about

(01:23:48):
that? Oh, nobody ever askedyou. So you didn't tell anybody in
the court setting. No testified infront of a grand jury, didn't you?
Yes, Sally asked you a bunchyour questions during the course of that
conversation that was under oath. Didyou ever disclose that you told the doctors
and the nurses you heard a womansay I hit him. I recall telling

(01:24:13):
the doctors and nurses that there isa question of that the patient was hit
by a vehicle or we don't know, is what I directly said to the
doctors and nurses. You directly toldthe doctors and nurses that there was a
question about whether or not he washit by a vehicle. Right, Yes,
have you ever said that in anycontext, either to the police or

(01:24:36):
in a grand jury before today?I don't recall. You were asked a
bunch of questions yesterday, the daybefore yesterday, and this morning by mister
Lolly. Yes, you say iton your direct examination. I wasn't asked
that question. So since mister Lowleydidn't ask you, you just left it
out that you told the doctors,the medical professionals that, in fact,

(01:25:01):
you described that this patient was likelyhit by a car jack j O.
As sustained, you are to reportas well. Correct. Yes, we've
talked a little bit about that report. There's an area in the report for
a narrative, yes, about yourobservations, your experiences with this patient.

(01:25:26):
Correct. Correct. Your job asa lead paramedic is to be as detailed
as possible. Correct. You wantto provide it, in part, the
most detail you possibly can about anincident to assist in medical intervention. Correct.
Take a look at page three tofive of your report. Yes,

(01:25:46):
you see that narrative area. Ido, and you point to that portion
of your report where you indicate thatmy client said the words I hit him.
It doesn't say that. Can youpoint to him or the portion of
your report where you indicate that youtold the doctors and nurses that she said
I hit him doesn't say that.Can you point to that portion of your

(01:26:14):
report where you indicate that your concernfor the patient was that he had been
hit by a car doesn't say that. You indicated on direct examination that you
were quote unquote looking for anything thatwe could pass on to the emergency room

(01:26:39):
that would assist. Think it mighthave been an assistance to the emergency room
personnel to indicate that you believe thisperson been hit by a car. Injection
Assistand do you believe that that wouldhave been an important piece of information to
pass on to the emergency room assistanceobjection, I'll let him have that,

(01:27:00):
thanks. They would have been important. Yes, and it's nowhere in your
reports, correct, it's not inthe reports. No, you didn't tell
that to the police when you wereinterviewed eight days later. I was not
asked about how or what I was. My question is, did you tell
the police eight days later or ninedays later when you were interviewed and you

(01:27:21):
didn't tell the grand jury that correct. No, and you didn't mention that
on direct examination, and sorry thesejuristic you have a moment, young,
Yes, that's all I happened onewith any mister Lelly. So far apart

(01:27:50):
from money, you had been askedsome questions about the observation you made of
mister o k and absent any externalobservation of injuries that could be from an
internal injury cause. Is that correct? Now? The conversation that you were

(01:28:14):
talking about in which the defendant indicatedto you repeatedly that you hit or I
hit that occurred on your sort ofway to the body right, correct?
Now, turning back to sort ofwhen you're coming to the scene and arriving
at the scene, you've got acall or dispatch in regard to an unresponsive

(01:28:35):
mail in the correctly you know thatgoing there correct, correct, And where
you sort of bring the ambulance tothe stop, there are other vehicles already
in that area where mister o'keith iscorrect. Correct, And it's from that
vantage point that you're able to thensee mister o'keith's body off the side of

(01:28:56):
the road about ten feet or sointo the law. Now, when it
comes to chess compressions your department,in any department as far as sort of
a medical field that you ring,is there any sort of policy or protocol
for how long one person should bedoing those at a time. So recommendation
is always two minutes, but it'susually based on the fatigue of the provider.

(01:29:20):
But really the most important thing isjust quality of CPR and making sure
that they have the best CPR throughout, regardless of fatigue. It's not recommended
that one person do continuous chess compressionsfor fifteen or twenty minutes. It's actually
recommended not And so that would besort of when you have that many sort
of assets that you want to see, would it be typical for somebody to

(01:29:43):
continue on with chess compressions for thatlong period of time? Videos that you
were showing up on the screen.Have you ever seen either of those videos
now, So you have no ideaas far as the times, whether they're
accurate prect no, and whether thevideos are synchronous. You have no idea
about that. Correct. The conversationin which you heard the defendants say I

(01:30:13):
hit him, and the conversation thatfirefight McLoughlin had in which the defendant told
her I hit him. Those aretwo separate conversations, right, happened at
two different times, two different locations. And you weren't even present for mister
blocklin statement. Direct you did whenyou were interviewed by the trooper and when
you testify before the Grand Jura,you indicated in both instances that the defendant

(01:30:34):
said to you I hit him repeatedlycorrectly. Now, when you were asked
questions about what you relate to thehospital staff, that what you're testifying to
you, that's your memory of whatyou told the hospital r and you indicated
in that that you had said somethingto the effect of there's a question about

(01:30:55):
whether or not mister O'Keefe had beenhit by a car. Right, And
so from your conversations with the defendantsand the sort of expounding questions that you
would ask for clarification, why wasit that you related more vehicles specifically as
a as a question to the offs. So it was due to the proximity
of the patient to the roadway andthe vagueness of the statement. So proximity

(01:31:20):
to the roadway and the fact thatshe stated I hit him. The red
flag of him being underdressed and not. People don't just lie down in the
snow in a blizzard, So howhe got there, we're not sure.
So we're trying to figure out whathappened. But due to the proximity of

(01:31:40):
the roadway, that was our firstinclination. I have nothing for it,
all right, You may are acouple of questions you and keep it,
and that it's not recommended to someonedo chest compression for fifteen or twenty minutes.

(01:32:05):
You saw the video screen the videowas about three minutes. Yes,
Did it appeared that the same personthat was doing chess compressions at the beginning
of the video continued doing chest impressionsall the way through? I don't know.
We just watched the video. Idon't I can't tell you for certain

(01:32:26):
which personnel. We all have yellowcoats, so I can't tell you if
somebody spopped. I don't know.Did it appear to you in watching that
video that the person that started onthe chest compressions on the left side of
the screen continued all the way throughup to the scoop, up to the
journey and off screen doing chess compressionsassistent you indicated that when you heard this

(01:32:51):
phrase I hit him that Your responsewas, did you hit him with your
hand? Right? Yes? Didyou kick him? Yes? Did you
punch him yes, that's what youpreviously testified to correct. Yes, nowhere
in that Nowhere in that conversation didyou ever suggest did you hit him with
your car? I don't recall ifI asked her specifically about that. So

(01:33:15):
now you don't recall about that.Eve Jackson. You are and for the
first time in any forum, you'retelling this jury that you then thought,
based on that conversation it was attendantto the video that we just watched.
You believed that mister Keith had beenhit by a car and that she said

(01:33:39):
she did it. I did notsay that. So what am I allowed
to respond? Yes? So Ileft it open ended to the staff of
the hospital that these are both possibilitiesof what happened to the patient. And
of course, if you had saidthat to the staff of the hospital and
staff the hospital would certainly put itin some of the medical books. Correct,

(01:34:00):
they don't have to. It's it'sreally up to them, And you're
aware of none of those have thatsay, I'm not aware that. All
right, you are all set firefighter Flammatti paramedic FLAMMATI thank you. Who
is your next witness, mister Lallyon the offal call on, mister Matthew
Kelly. Okay, you know Imay approaches to retrieve the existion. Hm

(01:34:35):
hm step up step. It's obviouslythe ship of the court and during the
case that I'm hearing from the truthtruth. Good morning, A right,

(01:34:59):
so you can consider stand. However, your comfortab will just bring perfect Thank
you, all right, mister Lelie, whenever you're ready, Thank you,
Good morning, sir, Good morning. Did you please stage name and spell
your last name for the record.Sure, Matthew Kelly k E L L
Y. And so what is itthat you do for work, sir?

(01:35:20):
I'm a firefighter paramedic for Canton FireAnd how long have you been a fire
fire paramedic can approximately two and ahalf years. And prior to working for
the Cannon Fire Department, what ifany other employment did you have within the
best source. I worked for aprivate ambulance Pristra and Buince service for approximately

(01:35:44):
five months. And sort of geographicallywhere was that look Boston area? Now,
prior to you working as an eutor paramedic, you worked as an
EMT before its being working as aparamedic. Correct, And so prior to
working as either an e to youare paramedic, did you have any sort
of train or did you receive anysort of certification in regard to being an

(01:36:04):
empty peramit. Yeah, So Ihad to do a six month EMT course
and then I had to do apractical and written exam for the course,
and then for the state to getmy EMT, and then for a paramedic
school it was about a ten totwelve month didactic portion and then I did

(01:36:25):
a believe it was two hundred hoursclinical in the hospitals, and then I
did three hundred hours ride time andthen I had to do a practical and
written exam for the course and alsofor the state. And now with canton
Fire, I'm getting precepted as apedic. And when you use that term

(01:36:45):
as far as preception, what exactlydoes that term mean within your It just
means that you get trained by anexperienced paramedic for an extended period of time
until they say that you you cando the job in your own And with
regard to being a EMT and aparamedic to receive a certification in regard to

(01:37:08):
working within that fields sidian with regardto being an AMT and a paramedic to
receive some certification as from the stateor some other body in regard to working
in that film. Yes, youhave certification in regard to vote yes.
And is that certification up the data? Yes, it is, sir.

(01:37:29):
If I can turn your attention toJanuary twenty eighth, the evening of that
into January twenty nine to twenty twentytwo, you're working with the Cannon Fire
Department that day. Yes, let'syou'll call what kind of shift you're working
on that day, twenty four hourshift on the ambulance and which station house
were you resigned to on that stationone? And that's located where within the

(01:37:53):
town of Camp ninety nine Revere Street, And you were assigned to the ambulance
is that correct? And who ifanyone else from your was assigned to the
ambulance along route? Paramedic Anthony Fulmadi. And on that morning of January twenty
ninth, do you recall about whattime that you woke up on that day?
I belive it was about four fortyfive am when you woke up.

(01:38:15):
What if anything is it that youdid with regard to her to get the
responsibilities around. So we woke upa little bit early to shovel off the
apron, shovel off the parking lotand just prepare for the new shift coming
in and just briefly started like sowhen you go outside to shovel what if

(01:38:36):
anything you recall about sort of theweather conditions and what they were at that
point. There was snow on theground, it was snowing, high winds,
little visibility, still dark out,and you recall being dispatched to a
call shortly after sixteen? Yes,I do. And so what was that

(01:38:57):
call or what was that dispatch inregard to and where It's just we were
this batch. It was unresponsible mailin the snow on Fairview Road and that
area of Fairview Road through your workwith can Fire Department, Are you're familiar
with that specific area? Yes,And you respond in the ambience exactly correct,

(01:39:19):
correct if anyone goes along. Inthe ambulance Filmadi was in the passenger's
seat and then paramedic Tim Nuddle wasin the back who was driving. I
was dead And in addition to theambulance ambulance one that you were in,
what if any other sort of vehiclesor apparatus responded from your station to Fairview

(01:39:43):
Road. We also had an engineand a R shift commander SUV if your
Paul who was the ship commander inyes, shift commander was Captain Wendell Robery
at the time and Captain Robery isnow the chief of the campfires at correct
And as far as the engine wasconcerned, who if anyone was assigned to

(01:40:08):
the engine and responding to the calls, Well, it was Lieutenant Greg Woodbury,
firefighter paramedic Katie McLoughlin, and firefighterparamedic Frank Walsh. And as you're
driving from the station house to Fairview, what if anything you were called weather
conditions, visibility, anything like thatalong the way just heavy snow went real

(01:40:32):
low visibility. Didn't want of snowon the ground, so I was just
trying to take it slow so wedidn't spin out or drift or anything like
that. And can you describe forthe jury sort of the route that you
took from the station on Revere Streetto Fairview Road that month? Yep,
we took it right onto Revere Street, left onto Sherman Street, right onto

(01:40:55):
Chapman Street and then a left ontoFairview. And as you're driving down fair
View, what if anything can youtell the jury about sort of the elevation
of that roadway as you go fromChappman down to where you stopped. It
was a pretty pretty steep, longroad downhill. It was probably downhill for

(01:41:18):
half of the way through fear Fewand because of that, I was just
trying to go real slow, sowe didn't drift down that hill. And
one last question about driving, Butas you're driving along, what if anything
else did you observe as far asthe sort of other hgular traffic on the
roadway, any other cars, trucks, anything like that. Nothing until I

(01:41:41):
saw the police cruiser at the scene. And so as you're approaching the scene
and you're driving towards, what ifanything sort of first draws your attention to
where you're going and where you stopped. So it was just real little visibility.
But we could see blue lights attime, so just kept going towards
the blue lights. Knew that itwould be in that area. Now do

(01:42:03):
you where do you stop? Inrelation to the crews, we I believe
they were facing towards us, sowe would be in front of them.
And at some points you're being dispatchedfor an unresponsible mail park directly. And
so when you're pulling up to thescene, you see the cruiser. Are

(01:42:23):
you able to also see any sortof unresponsive mailpark? Uh? Not when
I'm in the truck. I hadto get out of the truck to see.
And when wasn't And how far awayfrom it were you right the first
time that you observed young responsib onceI got on the truck it, I

(01:42:45):
was probably had to be about likefive feet away until I could see victim.
And at this time when you're arrivingsometimes shortly after six am, is
a light out, dark out orsomething. It's dark and we can stop
saying unresponsive. Now, at somepoint you identified who the patient was that
you eventually treated and transport. Whodid you identify? Uh, mister Keith,

(01:43:10):
the John o'keef? Is that correcorrect? So you get out of
the vehicle, you all get outat the same time. Is that correct?
Relatively? Yeah? And where isit that you firefighter FORMADI and firefighter
go. So we first go topick up some of the bags and stuff

(01:43:32):
that we would need to conduct thearrest, and then we just go straight
over to the body and some peoplethat were around there. And with regard
to the bags that you retreat,what what kind of bags we talk we'd
take like a first in bag thathas miscellaneous stuff, we'd take an airway
bag, and we would take acardiac monitor. And and you indicate as

(01:43:59):
far as where miss O'Keefe was,if anyone else or what if any other
people were in that same area.You can you say that when we're done,
when you first go over to wheremister O'Keefe is, if anyone or
how many other people are are inthat general area. I remember seeing a
police officer and two women. Andas far as where mister O'Keefe was,

(01:44:25):
First of all, how was hepositioned in relations to the He was on
his back, probably about around afire hydrant, probably about five or so
feet from what I saw would bethe street, but you believed about five
or so feet in from the roadwaycorrection. Now, with regard to mister

(01:44:47):
O'Keefe, when you first come over, what if anything that you observe as
far as snow on him or aroundhim or in the area where here I
don't really recall. You recall howmister O'Keefe was dressed when you first get
over there. We he was wearinga hoodie like a sweatshirt and jeans.

(01:45:08):
And remember he had one shoe on, but forget which shoe it was.
I don't recall which you was whatthere was one shoe on at that point.
And when we first arrive at thispatient, at mister, what is
it that you and the other firefightersare doing in regard to treating about so

(01:45:31):
the other fighter firefighters for checking fora pulse? And then after that we
well, I was getting some ofthese supplies and then we would start compressions
and start moving them into the ambulanceso we could get a better look at
them. And and what we weredoing when you say start compressions, what

(01:45:54):
kind of compressions are you refront hCPR Chess compressions room. And based on
your training experience, is there somesort of protocol as to how long one
individual should be doing chess? Sowe want early and continuous chess compressions for

(01:46:15):
as long as the person is pulseless. We will take breaks in order to
check for a pulse and check forrhythm, any rhythm changes. And so
when breaks are taken is that oneperson that's doing those same compressions the entire
time, or is it switched offor something else. We try to switch

(01:46:36):
off every few minutes. Now,when you first approach where mister Keith is
on the ground, what if anysort of injuries off at all that you
observe on mister Keith at that timeon the ground, I didn't observe any
injuries or recall seeing any any injuriesat the time. It wasn't until got

(01:46:59):
him in the ambulance I saw someinjuries. And so from that sort of
initial assessment and initial sort of treatmented the patients, What exactly does that
sort of assessment and treatment consist of? When mister will keeps on line basically
just checking for a breathing and ifhe has a pulse, it was pretty

(01:47:19):
dark and very low was visibility.So we wanted to get him out of
the conditions into the ambulance to kindof further assessment. And from your sort
of initial assessment, did he havea policy? Was agree? No?
And so want to get him outof the conditions. And how was that?

(01:47:41):
I believe we used a scoopboard ora scoop stretcher. It's just a
backboard that breaks into two pieces theycan slide underneath the victim. For the
patient, we use that, andthen we had picked them up and put
him onto our actual ems stretcher andthen just put the stretcher into the ambulance.
And where was the stretcher sort ofplaced in regard to where or in

(01:48:03):
relation to where mister O'Keefe was fivefeet off the blows, I don't recall.
Now, once you get to theambulance, what if any difference did
you notice between sort of the lightingand the ambulance versus the lighting outside on
the law so there was very lowvisibility outside, there was great visibility inside

(01:48:26):
of the lighting all around the backof the ambulance. And so once you're
in the back of the ambulance,what if anything did you observe or know
at that point in regard to anyinjuries you observed in miss roke Key.
He had a like a swollen blackand blue right eye and he had some
blood around his mouth. Now,as far as mister O'Keefe was concerned,

(01:48:51):
during treatment, you're obviously you're touchingor making contact with mister Key's body direct
direct and during the course of that, what if any observations or what if
anything to know in regard to sortof tactile observations. He was very cold
to touch, very stiff, almostfrozen like. Yes, Now at some

(01:49:13):
point during the course of your treatmentin the back of the hand, when
it's clothes removed. Yes, isthat? Why is that? It's just
so we can try to examine hisfull body for any other injuries. And
there's some concern for cardiac arrests.Correct? Correct? Can you explain are
you familiar with that term? Yes? Can you explain to the jury what

(01:49:35):
you're understanding? Great finding the trainingexperience is as what is cardio rash?
Sure it would be when a personhas a whetel cardiac rhythm where they no
longer have a pull. Now oncethe clothes As far as being removed,
how are they physically sort of howare they doing? I believe they were

(01:49:58):
probably cut off with trauma shares andonce the closer anew are removing promise years,
What if any additional observations you makeof injuries to Miss Rokey's bot.
There was some lesscerations on his rightupper extremity. Now, the chess compressions

(01:50:23):
that you were talking about, wasthat continuous sort of throughout the patient care
with respect to Miss roll keep yes, And in addition to that, what
if anything was done with respect tobody temperature from Miss roll keef once in
the back of the n so wedid some rewarming, so we did keep

(01:50:44):
blankets and warm fluids. And asthe chess compressions continue in the back of
the ambulance, what if anything didyou observe with regard to mister Oke's nose
or mount I remember that there wassome kind of some blood or vomit or
bile coming out of his coming outof his mouth. Now turning your attention

(01:51:09):
to back outside of the ambulance,taking you back there for a moment medicated
in destimality that when you arrived,there are two females in the area where
mister Peeth was that can you describeanything as far as what they look like
or anything about those two females asyourself. I just remember there are white,

(01:51:30):
looked to be between thirty five andforty five years old, I would
say, and average building height.What if any sort of distinguishing characteristics did
you observe between one of the others. I remember one had some bread stuff
around her mouth, I was thinkingit could be blood and that individual that

(01:51:55):
you observed with red stuff that youtalk to be blood around her mouth?
What if any observations did you makeof her as far as we're meaner anything
like that, she was just actingkind of a ratic and kind of running
around screaming different things. And asfar as the different things that she was
screaming, what if anything do yourecall specifically hearing her screaming when she was

(01:52:19):
running around, It was just somethinglike he's dead, He's fucking dead.
Is that something that she said onceor more than once, or something at
least twice. As far as thatsort of phraseology, was that consistent throughout?

(01:52:42):
I would say, sell yah.Now, when you enter the ambulance,
does the patient care continue obviously withMisroki, Yes, And if you
recall who was involved in that patientcare in the vagu the end me nut
all formati what Berry, Walsh andMcLoughlin came in a little bit later.

(01:53:14):
I'm not sure if she if shedid any patient care or not. The
majority of the people from your departmentthat responded the scene at one point or
another were involved in patient care.With regarding his drokes, Christ now you
drove the ambulance to fair View,Is that correct, Chris? And so
for the transport from Fairview? Whathospital did you go to? Good Samaritan?

(01:53:36):
So transport from a fair View toGood Samaritan? Who drove the ambulance
that McLoughlin and so firefight McLoughlin wasdriving where you located within the ambulance,
I was in the back with anut all informati if you recall sort of
specifically what if anything you were doingwith regard to patient care during the transport

(01:53:57):
phase. So I was just helpingthem transport phase. We I was doing
compressions before, but we had switchedthem over to a automatic compression device.
So I was just involved in helpingventilate and session. And was there any

(01:54:18):
who if anyone else in the backof the ambulance was also sort of working
on the airway for you revolved,We've not all and I forget I forget
who else now during the course oftransport from seeing when you arrived to Goods
Maridan, what have been changed?Did you not in reference to mister o'keeth

(01:54:42):
as far as heart activity, respiratoryanything of life? Uh, no changes,
Miss Gilman, and I Cruz askedfor exhibit number nine five part Kelly,
just directing your attention to the screenand what's been MARKETSI? But number

(01:55:05):
nine do you recognize that? Yes? And where do you recognize that the
location of the scene for the housethat you responded to on January twenty ninth?
Is that correct? And this skillman? If I could also have him
a number name? And again,so just directing your attention to the screen.

(01:55:26):
You recognize the photograph itself on thescreen? Yes? What's depicted in
that photograph? The location of thescene again sort of a different view at
the same home. Is that correct? Correct approach with the sean Yes?
Probably this is the laser corner.Basically there's a pon there. Just pressed
on that prive part Kelly, withusing that laser pointerer that you have now

(01:55:53):
before you, if you could pleasedirect the jury's attention on the screen to
whereabouts you locate? Did mister O'Keefeand that suit my position when first got
it's about the Syria right here?Thanks, I'm not confer to this one,
all right, cross examination? Maywe approach for a minute? Okay?

(01:56:15):
Sure is remember you can stand upand stretch any tell you those hy
Good morning, sir, mister keel. You and I have never met before,

(01:56:41):
correct, trast we've never had aconversation christ in or out of court.
Tract. Now, with regard tothe clothing that John O'Keefe was wearing
when you came upon him, Ibelieve you remembered that he had on a
pair of jeans the best of myrecollection. Yes, And you remembered that

(01:57:06):
he had a hoody sweatshirt. Yes. And what also stuck out in your
mind is that he had only oneshoe on correct. Correct. From your
memory. You're not sure if itwas the left or the right shoe,
but it was one of those correct. Correct. And you did not see
another shoe or the matching shoe inthe area anywhere around where he was correct.

(01:57:29):
Correct, And to your memory,you never saw that other shoe correct.
Correct. Now, with regard tothe removal of the clothing, I
believe you testified before this jury ondirect examination that trauma shears would have been
used. Is that accurate? Yes? And what did those look like?
How big are they? And ifyou could describe them, they're about this

(01:57:56):
big, so say six inches,and they have like a usually like a
plastic or metal handle and then justkind of two curved blades that are used
to cut. And are are theyessentially a large hair of scissors? Yes?
And are they sharp in terms ofthe blades and they need to be

(01:58:21):
somewhat you know, heavy duty becauseyou don't know what type of clothing you're
going to have to cut through.Correct. Correct? Where was it that
the trauma shears were used in orderto start to remove John O'Keefe's clothing that
morning? I don't recall. Doyou recall if it was before he was

(01:58:42):
put into the ambulance, during theambulance ride or after he was at the
hospital. I believe it would Idon't recall, but I believe it would
be in the ambulance. I'm sorry, there's a little bit of noise.
Could you repeat that. I don'trecall, but I believe it would be
in the ambulance. In the ambulance, and you wouldn't have waited until you

(01:59:05):
got to the hospital because there wasa reason why you were taking the clothes.
Correct, Correct? And what wasthat reason? To look for any
other injuries that the patient might haveand that was a priority as you were
treating. Correct. You don't thinkthat you cut off his clothes before you
put him in the ambulance, correct, Correct? And you don't think that.

(01:59:29):
And when I say you, Imean your team. You don't think
your team cut off the clothes afterhe was out of the endurance. Correct?
Correct? It was sometime during theride. Correct? Do you recall
who it was that actually used thetraumas shears along that ride? Now do
you recall at what point during theride? Would it have been sort of
the beginning of the ride or wouldit have been toward the end? Toward

(01:59:51):
the beginning? Now, with regardto the clothing that was cut, you
recall if it was the sweatshirt,the jeans, or both. I don't
recall, do you think or isyour memory that the hoodie sweatshirt was left

(02:00:14):
on him without being cut. Idon't recall where did that clothing go after
it was cut by the traumas yearsduring that ride, some of it would
stay right on the stretcher, butI don't recall on all of it,
and some of it could have beenon the floor of the ambulance as well,

(02:00:35):
potentially. And then once the ambulancearrives at the hospital, what is
the protocol regarding the clothing that hadbeen cut. It gets transferred over to
the RN in charge of the patientand usually stays in their room. Usually

(02:00:56):
they'll put it in some sort ofbag, okay, and the clothing put
in the bag. Does somebody meetyou out at the ambulance in order to
collect the clothing or do you bringthe clothing into the hospital in order to
transfer it to an RN? Webring it in. And do you recall
who it was that brought in thatclothing? Now, who was with you

(02:01:18):
at that time going into the hospitalfrom the ambulance not all informati, So
it had to be one of thethree of you that delivered that clothing to
an RN. Correct. Correct?Do you know if all the clothing was
delivered to an RN or if somestayed in the ambulance? I don't recall.
And once you give the clothing tothe RN, do you see where

(02:01:40):
she takes it? I don't recall. Did you go into the treatment room
wherever John O'Keefe was brought once hewas at the hospital. Yes, and
you would previously testify that you believethe clothing would have been brought in with
him. Correct. Do you havea memory of seeing that clothing within that
treatment room at the hospital. Idon't recall. Do you recall seeing the

(02:02:04):
clothing on the floor, I don'trecall. Okay, Now let's get back
to when you first arrived on scene. And actually, but before I get
to that, I did want toask you a couple of questions about where
you were at in terms of yourcareer on January twenty eighth, twenty ninth.

(02:02:27):
You were a fairly new firefighter,correct, and you were conscious you
had been trained not long before Januarytwenty ninth, Right, it was within
several months. Two months, Yeah, within two months, okay, And
your priority as a new firefighter wasto follow your training correct. Correct.

(02:02:51):
It was fresh in your mind.Correct. You wanted to do things the
right way correct. Correct, Andparticularly at the beginning of your career,
you don't want to develop any badhabits correct. Correct. And you were
following protocol once you got to thescene as best you could. Correct.

(02:03:12):
I believe you testified on direct examinationthat when you got when the ambulance got
to thirty fourth fair of you,as soon as it was parked, you
and Anthony Flammotty went straight to thebody. Correct. I don't recall saying
that I wasn't sure who went straightto the body. I said, some

(02:03:36):
of us got some supplies. Okay, I thought your testimony correct me if
I'm wrong, But I thought yourtestimony was that you may have gotten some
supplies, but then you and Flammattywent straight to the body. Yes,
so we did. Me and nuttAll got supplies. Me and nutt All

(02:03:59):
went to the body. All right, Well we didn't go straight there.
We got supplies first and then wentto the or. I got supplies first
and then went to the body.Okay. How long did it take you
to against supplies? Probably within aminute, I would say. Okay.
And where was Flamati when you weregetting supplies? I don't recall once you

(02:04:21):
got to the body, who assistedyou with regard to treating John O'Keeffe.
I believe it would be the peoplewho were on scene with me, Flammatti,
nutt Walsh, McLoughlin, would Berry, and Rowbery. Okay, so

(02:04:43):
is it your testimony that your memoryis that five six, however, many
people were there with you. Allwere hovered over John O'Keeffe doing treatment on
him, not treatment, but gettingsupplies, getting a stretcher. We're all
working together but we weren't all thetreatment for sure, and the treatment was

(02:05:06):
essentially CPR correct correct chess compressions,yes, and dealing with his airway as
well. Correct. Uh, whichof your co workers and or you were
directly involved with the CPR, thechess compressions and the airway issues. I

(02:05:27):
recall that I was doing compressions andhelping suction and ventilate in the ambulance,
but I do not recall who elsewas our taking in that. Okay,
so let's talk about when he JohnO'Keefe was put on the scoop stretcher and
then ultimately taken to the ambulance.Who was with you when that was occurring?

(02:05:54):
So it would have been me,not al for Madi and Ropery I
believe were trying to get him onthe scoop. And then I believe the
engine guys were trying to get thestretcher. Who are the engine guys?
That would be Walsh, It musthave been Walsh would bury it and McLoughlin,

(02:06:19):
But I don't recall who exactly wasSo your memory is that yourself,
not all in Flammadi were loading JohnO'Keeffe onto the school. So yeah,
and then from the school. He'sput on a stretcher, correct, And
then who would it have been thatwheeled the stretcher to the ambulance. I

(02:06:45):
don't recall who it was you,I don't recall. So you have no
memory of who would have taken JohnO'Keeffe on that stretcher into the back of
the ambulance. I don't recall whoactually did it, but it would just
be whoever is in the best locationat the time to move the stretcher.
All right, do you have amemory of John o'keeith going into the back

(02:07:08):
of the end? Not a clearmemory. Now who went into the ambulance
with him? Me? Not awful, Madi Welsh would barry. Oh.
And by the way, once he'son the scoop and then put on the
stretcher, the priority is to gethim into that ambulance. Correct. And

(02:07:32):
part of the reasons for that ishe was cold, correct, yes,
sir, And your priority was youwanted to warm him up, correct,
And the best place to do thatwould have been the inside of that ambulance.
Correct. So it wasn't that hewas put on the stretcher and then
there was some detour in terms ofwhere he was taken you made or whoever

(02:07:56):
took him, made a beeline forthe back of that ambulance in order to
get him warm correct. Correct.And once he's in the ambulance, the
priority at that point would be toclose the doors of the ambulance. Correct.
Correct, because if you leave thedoors open, there's a blizzard outside.
Correct. Jaction sustained. Let's goahead and mistine and keep moving forward.

(02:08:18):
Place. And so the doors wereclosed to the ambulance. Correct at
some point, Yes, And insidethe doors of that ambulance, as you're
testified, was at least You're notnaming everybody, but at least you and
nut All and Flammonty. Correct.And once those doors were closed to the

(02:08:41):
ambulance, none of you left theambulance. Correct, None of us meaning
you. I'm not talking specifically aboutyou and nut All and Flammony. I
don't believe so. No, youwould have remained in the ambulance all the
way to the hospital. And that'sthe point in which the doors will be
open. Correct. Correct. Allright, Now, I'd like to ask

(02:09:05):
you some questions about the scene thatyou came upon, in terms of the
people who were there when you arrived, Sir, you had previously testified that
you saw I believe you testified thatyou saw two women and a law enforcement
officer already on scene. Correct.One of those women appeared to have blood

(02:09:28):
around her mouth. Correct, Itwas something red, but you assumed that
it was blood correct, Correct,And that led you to also believe that
she had rendered or tried to renderCPR. Correct projection. Is that what
you thought? Yes, okay,And while you were on scene, it

(02:09:54):
was the woman who had the bloodaround her mouth who appeared to be most
upset, Correct, Chris, shewas really upset. Correct. Yes.
Would you go so far as tosay she was distraught, yes, hysterical,
yes, frantic? Yes. Andyou heard her say he's dead,

(02:10:20):
he's fucking dead something like that,correct, christ And she didn't say it
in the tone of voice that Ijust said it, correct, Chris.
She was screaming when she said that, correct. Correct. It was very
easy for you to discern that herwords were he's dead, he's fucking dead,
correct, Chris. And she repeatedit more than once. Correct,

(02:10:43):
Chris. And it's fair to saythat at no point in time did you
ever hear her say I hit him, I hit him. I hit him.
Correct, and you would agree withme, sir, that you have
been extremely consistent in terms of yourmemory of what she said. Correct.

(02:11:07):
Correct. You've been asked these questionsnot for the first time by mister Lalley
or me in court today. Therehave been other occasions where people have asked
you, what did the woman withthe blood on her mouth say when she
was on sne Correct. You wereasked out by Trooper Proctor on February ninth,

(02:11:28):
twenty twenty two. Correct. Idon't recall. It's probably unfair of
me to say the date, butyou do recall speaking to a state trooper
not long after these incidents, correct. Correct. And to that state trooper
you told him that what she saidwas he's dead, he's fucking dead.

(02:11:48):
Correct. I don't recall. Youdon't recall saying anything differently than that,
do you. I remember saying alot differently, but I might have also
said that. I just don't recall. Well, you don't let me rephrase
that. You don't recall changing herwords at all. You've always said he's
dead, he's fucking dead. Correct. Correct. That was not only to

(02:12:11):
the state police on February ninth,but then in April of twenty twenty two,
you were in a grand jury setting. Correct. There was no defense
attorney there on that day. Correct. I don't believe so you don't remember
seeing me there, mister Lalley wasasking the questions. Correct. And there

(02:12:33):
you also said that what Michael well, I'm sorry. What the woman with
the blood on her mouth said washe's dead, He's fucking dead. Correct?
Correct, And you've testified to thattoday. Yes, sir, you've
never changed that story. Correct,correct, and that is because the truth
does not change correct. Correct.All right. At this point, I'd

(02:12:56):
like to play a fifteen second portionof a video which I would offer as
the next exhibit your honor. Okay, so we'll watch it, and then
you offer it with no narration,right, never before you start. I'm
not as interested in the video,sir. I'm interested in the audio.

(02:13:22):
So if you could listen as bestyou can, would you agree with me,

(02:13:54):
sir that you we heard what whatyou heard that night? What you
he's dead, He's fucking dead.It's kind of hard for me to hear.
I heard about does he do drugs? I couldn't really hear the background
I made more than Okay, misterKelly, I got permissioned to play it

(02:14:35):
one more time. I'll try mybest, so I again, and by
the way, before it's queued up, I would direct your attention more towards
the beginning of that fifteen seconds.There are things that happen. I think
that you heard at the end.But you tell us what if you can
hear, well, what you canhear? What did you hear? I

(02:15:18):
heard someone say fucking dead. Thankyou any redirect It's pretty farm Kelly.
From that video, it was justup on the screen. You indicated that
when you got to the scene,you saw the cruiser and the park sort
of behind the cruise, correct aroundthe cruise. So from that video you

(02:15:45):
didn't see the ambulance that you weredriving anywhere in correct, Tress. You
have no idea whether or not youwere even on scene at that time that
any of those statements that were madein that video were made correct. Correct
Now, as far as patient carewas concerned, we're sort of all of
you being yourself. Firefighter Formai,firefight None or firefight of Theclaughlin, Firefight

(02:16:05):
of Walls, Firefighter Woodbury were alltogether all the time. Wre were you
doing separate things in separate places duringthe course of every time on separate things
and separate places. Yeah, sofair to say that everything that you heard
may not be everything that someone elsethat was there from your apartment that day
or correct. Correct. And converselysomething that someone else or it may not

(02:16:26):
be necessarily something that you were ina position to here, that's correct.
Correct. You also asked the questionsabout sort of using the shears and cutting
off for case clothing during the ride. Is it your testimony that that was
in the back of the ambulance correct? Correct? It was that during the
transport or was that prior? Wouldyou be utilizing shears on a patient cutting
off clothing while the ambulance is intransit. No, so if it was

(02:16:52):
in the back of the ambulance,that would have been fired to the ambulance
leaving the scene and going to thisMarria correct. Correct. Nothing for the
wanted. The only thing I wouldoffer is the video that I played.
I have, so we will dothat, mister mister clerk. It's already
been pre marked, right, doyou not have it? Nancy? Okay,

(02:17:20):
thank you, thank you. Yeah, all right, so we're all
set, thank you, You're allset. H. Your next witness John

(02:18:00):
call mister Francis Walsh to this time, m H Torri, what do you
have for to watch your step?Thanks? He's obviously the episode of the

(02:18:31):
court and jury the case down hereand she's the truth the whole trip and
nothing but the truth. Health Okay, whenever you're ready, Miss Tlelly.
Thanks all good afternoons. Could youplease state your name and it's your last
name, uh, Francis Walsh wA L. S AH. And what

(02:18:54):
do you do for? I'm alieutenant paramedic with the can fight upon me?
And how long have you been afirefighter paramedic with the can firefight?
Just shy of ten years? Andyou indicated that you have ready lieutenant to
that correct? That's correct? Howlong have you been on lieutenant with candidates

(02:19:16):
since September of last year? Nowwith regard to you have certifications both as
an EMT and a parable RRECT,that's correct. And with regard to those
certifications, when was it first thatyou sort of received those? I received

(02:19:39):
my paramedic certification in June of twentyfourteen. That's when I was officially certified.
And is that something that you've beensubject to sort of continuing educational components
and re certification since then. Yes, every two years we have to recertify
and take continuing education classes. Andis your certification up to the reserve petition

(02:20:05):
up the seat at this point?Yeah, it's current. I just recertified
last month. Actually, Now,if I could turn your attention to the
evening of January twenty eighth into Januarytwenty nine to twenty twenty two, you
recall that day, I do,And were you working that day with the
five black I was? And whatkind of shift were you working on that
occasion? Twenty four hour shifts,which is standard and is at eight am

(02:20:28):
to eight am. That's correct,that right me? If I'm wrong with
that, would be eight am ortwenty eighth until eight am on the twenty
nine, that's correct. And sowhere were you assigned to on that on
that particular day. I was assignedto headquarters, which is on ninety nine
Revere Street, and my position wasengine driver. So fair to say people

(02:20:50):
within your department did different sort ofassignments on different apparatus based on the different
shift that their work. That's correct. And your assignment that day was the
driver of the engine? Correct?Yes? Engine three now beyond sort of
your assignment as the engine driver inthat particular shift, what if any sort

(02:21:13):
of specialized assignment do you have ordid you have with that time in regard
to snow removal. Yeah, soon that particular shift, I was also
the snowplow driver. We have anin house truck and a snowplow for the
for the Fight department, and thatwas my responsibility on that shift. How
many people within the apartment have thatsort of responsibility when it kind of depends

(02:21:39):
group to group, So some workinggroups will just kind of rotate and have
a different person to do it eachtime. At that time, the group
that I was on, I kindof had the most experienced plowing, so
I was I was always the goto person to be in the plowd truck
when it snowed. And so withrespect to that three about what time did
you sort of get up on thatmorning? In between? I believe it

(02:22:01):
was around four am. And whywas it that you brought up at that
It was it was snowing pretty heavily. I mean, we knew the forecast
call for a lot of snow,so I got up early and hopped in
the plowd truck. And so itjust originally in addition to the snow,
what if anything else that you observeas far as the weather conditions when you

(02:22:22):
were out in the in the cloudtruck, it was very windy. I
just windy and really heavy snow.Now, at some point shortly after six
am, was your department get dispatchedto the car? Yes? And where
was the dispatch to when? Whatwas it in regards to you? So

(02:22:46):
I didn't hear the actual dispatch becauseI was I was in the plow truck.
I was in the rear of headquartersin the cloud truck. But my
captain, Captain Robie, came outand told me that we had a call
for thirty few thirty four Fairview Roadfor an unresponsive mail party. And he
told me, you know, hopin the engine and head to that call.

(02:23:07):
And when you hop in the engine, who if anyone else from your
department was assigned to the same engineas you want that day? So I
had Lieutenant would Bury to my rightand the passenger seat and Firefighter McLoughlin in
the rear and beyond the engine thatyou were driving. What if any sort
of other apparatus from your apartment wasdispatched to call that as well, so

(02:23:28):
that would have been an ambulance one. And then also car five went as
well. That's kind of like anoptional thing. But with the call of
that severity, the captain will willgo as well. And who was who
was in car fire on that CaptainRobery and you drove the engine? Is
that correct? That's correct. Ifyou could describe for the jury sort of

(02:23:52):
what you observed as far as theroad condition, visibility, things that like
en route from the station to Fairviewroom, yes, it was. It
was really really poor driving conditions andvisibility. I can't recall ever driving to
a call of that nature and thatseverity that slowly. The visibility was so

(02:24:13):
poor that we were just driving extremelyslow. Might away, okay, and
from if you could describe to thejury sort of the route of travel that

(02:24:33):
you took from Stasion one to SureSo out of out of Station one,
take a right onto Vere Street,and then I left onto Sherman Street,
right onto Chapman Street, and thena left onto Fairview. Now, if
you recall what was sort of theorder, you're all sort of dispassion and

(02:24:54):
you're all sort of responding around thesame time being Car five, the ambulance
and the edge correct. Correct,And if you recall what was sort of
the order of the vehicles in response, So Engine three we were the last
vehicle for the Fight department to arriveon scene. So when we arrived on
scene, Ambulance one and Car fivewere already on scene. And if I

(02:25:16):
could ask us sort of as you'returning on to a Fairview road we traveled
down, what if anything do younote about sort of the elevation of the
roadway as you're driving down to it'sa downhill grade. Yeah, it gets
a little bit steep at one point. And the residents that you eventually stopped

(02:25:37):
at or responded to, where wasthat a location in reference to when you
first on turn on a fair View? About how far down and how far
down is the residence that you wereeventually uh, pretty fight on its I
believe it's one of the last houseson Fairview and the residents that were talking
about it from your perspective when you'redriving down there is that on your laptop

(02:26:00):
right or something left? And asyou're approaching the scene, what is it
sort of that you see before you? As you know, how do you
know where to stop? And whereyou're going. Uh yeah, so I
mean we, like I said,visibility was really poor, but there was
ambulance, one car, five atleast a couple of police cruisers on scene

(02:26:20):
before us, so it's kind ofhard to miss that. So that's how
we knew where to stop. Nowin regard to you're responding to an unresponsive
name, correct, And just tobe clear, at some point you were
able to identify, you were toldwhat the identity was about a response to
olization. Correct, that's correct.What was his name, John O'Keefe.

(02:26:45):
And so with respect to mister O'Keeffe, as you're approaching the scene, when
was the first time that you wereable to sort of see where mister O'Keefe
was on scene when you arrived.It wasn't until a little bit after we
actually arrived on scene that I couldsee the patient because as we pulled up,
the ambulance was blocking our line ofsight to where the patient was,

(02:27:09):
so I couldn't see him right away. And what was sort of the the
I know you talked about visibility,but as far as had the sun come
up yet, no, it wasit was pitch black. And so when
you arrive on scene, what isit that you and sort of the other
people on your engine are doing inrelation to patient treatment. So at that

(02:27:33):
point I got out of the engineand I started walking towards where the ambulance
crew was. But at that point, Firefighter McLoughlin was coming around to the
rear of the ambulance to get thestressure out, So I went directly to
that to give her a hand withthat, and we proceeded to bring that
around the front of the ambulance wherefirefighter not all Flammatti and Kelly, and

(02:27:58):
I believe Captain Robbery, we're workingon the patient. Now. In reference
to where patient Miss ro keyth was, where was he? Could you see
sort of how in reference to theground I could see they had the other

(02:28:18):
firefighters and Captain that I just mentionedhad just put him on the backboard at
the first time that I saw him, I'd say that was like roughly ten
feet in from the road. Andto that point, how we were able
to say that it was approximately tenfeet in from the road, just an

(02:28:39):
estimate. Let me ask you asfar as the stretcher was concerned that you
were in firefighter on a block onthe tree, where did you place that
in relations to where mister Keyth waswhen you first brought built. So we
placed that. We decided to leaveit on the street and get it as
close to the to the grass orsnow as possible. It was unspoken,

(02:29:01):
but we knew that we didn't wantto put the stretcher onto the snow,
it would be too unstable. Sowe put it right up against the curb,
so right at the edge of thestreet where the street meets the yard
and put the stretcher basically right upagainst the curb. And mister he was
brought on tempe from that's correct.And with respect to positioning the stretcher,
was that parallel with the curb orper nicola to it or how is it

(02:29:24):
parallel? And mentioned that obviously mistero'keith is on scene and there are a
number of different firefighters from your apartment. Correct, that's correct. It was
at least a huge cruiser. Didyou see any officers sort of around the
scenes. Yes, I remember OfficerSarah and Sergeant Good. And with respect

(02:29:50):
to civilians, what if any civilianshave you observed around the scenes. I
observed two female civilians and where werethey in relation into where you were or
in relations where Missuel Keith. Imean, they were pretty worked up,
so they were moving around quite abit. But I'd say they were somewhere

(02:30:11):
in between myself and the stretcher andwhere misterial Keith was. And did you
yourself have any conversation with either ofthe two females himself? I did not
directly know, and you just stestifieda little bit before that they were upset
as a sort of Both of themwere yes, yes, And what if
anything leads you to that sort ofconclusion As far as their demeanor, what

(02:30:35):
if anything did you specifically observe?I mean, I observed one of them
like screaming and crying, and theywere both just frantically like moving around a
lot. As far as the onethat you observe screaming or crying to you
call specifically, what if anything thatperson said? All I recall her saying

(02:31:00):
was is he alive? With respectto mister o'keef. As far as his
clothes, what if any observations didyou make? It was close. The
notable observation that I made was thathe was missing one shoe, his right
shoe. And where was mister O'Keefewhen you made that observation of missing it

(02:31:26):
was when we when we put thestretcher into the ambulance, the stretcher lifts
up, so it's kind of rightat my face and that's my notice it.
So at the time was being placedin the ambulance, you only had
one shoe based on what you saw, that's correct. Now, once mister
o'keith is in the back of theambulance, where did you go? So

(02:31:50):
I stayed down at the feet.I was positioned right by his right leg.
And what if any difference did youknow between the lighting conditions outside on
the lawn versus the lighting conditions inthe back of hand on the back of
the ambulance, it was traumatically better. So once in the back of the
ambulance, what if anything did youknow or observe as far as injuries to

(02:32:13):
mist I noticed a hematoma on hisright eye, and I noticed some blood
coming from his nose. And justto be clear for the record, so
when you say hematoma, based onyour training and expands, can you explain
what your of that term is tothe journey swelling and bruising. Now,
at some points with respect to theclothing that mister oke was wearing. What

(02:32:35):
if anything did you or other firefightersor paramatics from your apartment do with reverences?
We removed all all of his clothingand let me first ask how was
that removal? Sort of common?Can you repreat that when you removed his
clothing? How was that? Howdid you do that? Oh, with

(02:32:56):
trauma shares basically scissors that that cutclothing and once uh, sort of was
that pursued into some sort of protocolor clothing and any and any any trauma
call. It's protocol to expose thepatient so you can see all injuries and
you don't miss any injuries. Andonce the clothing removed was removed with the

(02:33:18):
with the trauma shears, what ifany additional injuries or anything that you I
noticed some some scratches and lacerations onhis right arm. Now in reference to
treatment in the back of the enblancewith regards to mister Keith, what if
any sort of role in that todo sort of assume or where you sort

(02:33:39):
of assigned by the lead permit?Yeah, so I was responsible for the
the IO drill and access to intraossious access. You explain to the jury
sort of what that is and howthat's yeah, So you do that instead
of instead of I V access.So when somebody's in cardiac arrest, it's
really hard to get an IV.So what you do is you actually drill

(02:34:01):
into into a bone and you canadminister medication and fluids like into the bone
marrow space and so pursue it toSo Mijo Keith was undergoing cardiac arrest.
Correct? Correct? You explained yourunderstanding of that term based on your training

(02:34:22):
experience. Majority, what is cardects? No cardiac function? His heart isn't
pumping blood anymore, and so whatif any sort of protocols are there as
far as medication administration is there inreference to a cardiac Yeah, so the
frontline medication for that is epinephrin.That's what we gave through the IO access.

(02:34:45):
What is the purpose of the epinetepinephorn? I mean basically in Layman's
terms, it gets the heart pumpingagain. If that's a viable option,
and in addition to the ephor andwhat depending on the medication was administered through
the IO. I believe that wasit as far as when I was on
scene, it was it was justup an effort. You call anything about

(02:35:07):
the sailings. Oh, yeah,saline as well, but you know it's
not a medication. But yeah,we also administered sailine. What is what
is the purpose of the same,Uh, saline is just to increase blood
volume. Now as far as asfar as the transport, mister Keith is
then taken from usual hospital. Correct. Correct? Did you go along with

(02:35:31):
the ambulance on the transport Beloto?I did not, So you remained on
scene leaves for some period of time. Correct, very briefly, but yes,
And reference some officers from the Canonpolice departments that we're on scene when
you were on correct, Correct,and without reference to anything, uh said

(02:35:52):
which of them, if any?Did you have any conversation with the part
of leavings, Uh, Sergeant Goodand Uh just as far as what youse
hold Sergeant Good, What if anythingdid you relate to him before you left
the seen in I related to himthat there were signs of trauma and the
patient And did you give it anysort of further explanation as to the signs

(02:36:13):
of trauma that you observed? Yes, I believe I told him what I
told you about the hematoma on theeye and the blood and the nose and
the scratches and lacerations on the arm. So use old sergeant good what you've
just testified to the jury that youobserved that's I believe so, Miss Gillmen,

(02:36:33):
if I could ask for exhibit numbereight and fire fire a wellsh what's
up on the screen is exhibt eighteen. You recognize that? Yes, thirty
four fair view road? Is thatfair? You know? Minus whatever the
weather conditions are a fair and actof portrayal of what you observed that day?

(02:36:54):
Yes, and appro Yes, sothis is annas okay and so far
far awall. So if I couldask, using that laser corner, if
you could direct jury's attention to wherewithin this photograph if you see that you

(02:37:18):
observed mister his volume when you firstarrived, heard in that general area.
Thanks. May I have one momentnow? Yes, no further questions for
this witness, right quest examination?Yes, good afternoon, sir, good

(02:37:43):
afternoon. I just want to askyou about the woman that you saw on
scene, for it appeared to bescreaming and crying. Would you agree with
me that she stood out to youbecause she appeared to be the most upset.
Yeah, I would agree with that. Yes, And the loudest.

(02:38:03):
Yes. She appeared to be cryingmore than others. Yes, and she
was screaming right. Yes. Andwhat you heard her say, I understand
your testimony was that she just saidis he alive? Correct? That's what

(02:38:28):
I recall. Correct in a loudvoice. Yes, in a distraught voice.
Yes, while she was crying.Correct. I have nothing for it,
there's nothing, mister Lelly. Right, all right, you are all
set, sir. Thank you.Who's your next witness, Miss Katie McLoughlin

(02:39:11):
MHM step watching stuff. Thanks canraise right here SMS for the others to
give it the court and jury andthe case down here. It's for the

(02:39:33):
truth, the whole trip, andnothing but the truth. So help you
God, Thank you. Connect.I just need you to speaking to that
microphone nice and loud. M okay, whenever you're reading, mister Lelly,
I'll connect you. Could you pleasetake your name, insty your last name
for this. It's Katie McLaughlin mC l A U G H L I

(02:39:58):
N. And what do you dofor I'm a firefighter paramedic for the town
of Canton. And how long haveyou been a firefighter paramedic at the time,
probably about seven years at this pointand prior to working for the Cannon

(02:40:18):
Fire Department, what if any otherwork did you do sort of within that
that general field. I worked asa excuse me, an EMT basic for
Brewster Ambulance. I went to paramedicschool. I eventually became a paramedic for
Brewster Ambulance and I worked there fora few years before getting on the fire

(02:40:39):
department, and just briefly, butprior to becoming a paramedical working as a
paramedic, what was sort of whatif any sort of training did you receive
in a guard or a sort ofoccasion did you receive garden? So it's
a two year schooling where you haveabout a year of didactic there's a lecture

(02:41:07):
portion for about a year, andthen after that there's about a year two
year and a half of clinical trainingthat's done in an er and then done
in an ambulance. So that wholeperiod is around two years. And prior
to working prior to working in thecamp Fire Department, and receive a certification

(02:41:31):
from the state or some other sourcesbeing paramatic directly, Yes, it's through
the state and through a national registry, and both those certifications in the state
of the national Registry. Are thosegranted sort of forever or is there like
a continue to continuing educational component anda recertification process, so you recertify every

(02:41:54):
two years. You have to takecontinuing education classes in that two year period
and that's just on a two yearcycle. You re certify and your certification
is up to date at this point. Is that correct? Yes? And
if I could turn your attention tothe date, so of January twenty eight,

(02:42:16):
twenty twenty two into January twenty nine, twenty twenty do you call those
dates? Yes? And were youworking with the camp fire department on those
dates? Yes? Do you willcall what kind of shift you were working
from the twenty eighth to It wasjust my regular twenty four hour shift and

(02:42:37):
twenty four hour shifts and camping fireis essentially eight am to eight am.
Is that correct correct? And wherewere you sort of assigned within the town
of camp Fire department on that date? So I was on the engine for
that shift, So I was thethird person on the engine. There's an

(02:42:58):
engine drive, there's an officer,and then there's a third person who's in
the back. And so your sortof role with the respect and the entine
is there sort of like a namefor that position. Some people call it
like the backstep. Yeah. Andwhich station house were you assigned to one
that engine ready, the station onewhich is ninety nine Revere Street. And

(02:43:24):
in addition to yourself, if anyoneelse was assigned to the other sort of
roles on the engine. Frank Walshwas the engine driver that day and Greg
Woodbury was the lieutenant on the enginethat day. Now, turning your attention
to that morning of twenty nine,how'd you recall about what time you got

(02:43:50):
up or what time you went outsidethat day? I think we were up
maybe a little a little before sixbecause it was snowing and we had to
like shovel the front apron, Sowe were up maybe five five am.
And so when you were up aroundthat time, around five am and outside,

(02:44:13):
we were outside shoveling, is thatcorrect? Yep, intermittently intermittently.
Yeah. So during the times thatyou were outside shoveling, what if anything
that you observed as far as theweather with the conditions at that point,
it was snowing pretty heavily, ithad been snowing, we were shoveling,
and it was pretty pretty cold andwindy, and if you know around that

(02:44:39):
time that you initially sort of wentout were shoveling about how much snow had
been had accumulated at that point.I don't know how much. I mean
enough for us to shovel that frontapron, but I don't know how much.
Sometimes shortly after six am were youand other members of your department dispatched.
You were call yes, and wherewere you dispatched to? And what

(02:45:03):
was that dispatching? So the callcame in as a man down in the
snow or a man unresponsive in thesnow, and the call was four thirty
four Fairview Road. And how longwas it from the time that you sort

(02:45:24):
of see that dispatch and go sortof on the engine to do that residence
compared with how long we're on thetruck and going within probably within a few
minutes at most. And so inaddition to yourself and fire for a Walsh

(02:45:46):
and would Bury, what if anyother sort of apparatus from your station was
dispatched this call. The ambulance wasdispatched as well, and I believe the
command car Car five also was dispatchedto the call. And as far as
Car five if you were called?Who was in car five at the time,

(02:46:09):
Captain Robery? And with respect tothe ambulance with you all, who
if anyone was assigned to the ambulanceand went with the ambulance. UH,
Firefighter Kelly and Firefighter Flammatti were onthat ambulance, and I believe Tim Nuttall

(02:46:30):
was also there. He came inearly and so he jumped on the ambulance
as well. And with respect towhen you get to fair your room,
do you recall what sort of orderof the vehicles were in as far as
Car five and the ambulance and thefire engine, I think Car five was

(02:46:52):
maybe first, and then the ambulancewas in front of us, and then
we pulled up behind the mbulance.And so when you sort of arrived on
scene pull up behind the ambulance,other than vehicles from your department, what
if any other sort of vehicles didyou observe or I noticed there were multiple

(02:47:16):
police vehicles and at least one civilianvehicle. Now, obviously you're responding to
a report of a non responsive mailpart correct, Yes, And when you're
sort of first arriving on scene orjust in reference to when you arrived on

(02:47:39):
when was the first time that youwere able to see that on responsive money.
So when I got out of theengine, I went right back to
the ambulance to get the stretcher becauseI knew that from wherever they were,
they seemed to be kind of inoff of the road. So I went

(02:48:03):
got the stretcher with Firefighter Walsh,I believe, and then we brought the
stretcher as close as we could tothe patient and that was about that was
like parallel to the curb, Andthat would be the first time that I
observed them working on a patient.And so if I could disassity just with

(02:48:24):
regard to sort of those duties asthe backstep person, So what is sort
of the duties and responsibilities as thebackstep person on the engine through this kind
of metamalal, So the role ofthe person in the back of the engine
is it kind of is dependent uponwhat that what that lead paramedic needs you

(02:48:46):
to do. You're there to assistthe ambulance in any way that they need.
So that could be assisting with extricationof a patient. It could be
obtaining information about a patient or bystanders. It could be assisting with patient care
if they need you in the backof the ambulance. It really depends on

(02:49:09):
what they need you to do forthat particular call and turning back to your
testiment different moment said or over renderingsort of patient care. Is that correct?
Yes? I noted Tim, Inoted Tony, and there were there

(02:49:31):
was there were a lot of peoplethat seemed to be around that area.
So I'm not I'm not sure exactlywho else was there, but I did
not Tony and Tim were were inthat area as far as sort of the
other people in that area where Tonyand Tim so people sort of yawn people
from your department, What if anyother sort of people did you notice around

(02:49:54):
that area? I don't know specifically, what do you mean, like as
far as outside of the right,so outside of fire department personnel in that
area, what are many observations youmake of those people? Who were those
people? Well, at that pointI couldn't really make out like the identities

(02:50:18):
of like other people. I justI noted Tim and Tony, but I
didn't really pick up on who anyoneelse was at that point. They were
still like in off of the roadat that point, and so from where
their position with regards to the patientand just for parity purposes, you were

(02:50:41):
subsequently learned the identity of the patients. Correct, Yes, what did you
learn, John O'Keefe. And whereyou and firefighter Walls were with the stretcher?
How far away from where you werewas on mi'keef and the other Uh?

(02:51:03):
They were I don't know that Icould give a great a number h
several feet away they were like,Uh, I remember kind of seeing a
fire hydrant, but I don't knowexactly uh number wise that how that would
what that would be? And fromyour observation of where miss ro Keith was,

(02:51:26):
could you tell how his body waspositioned? He was supine, so
he's lying on his back or faceup? And what if anything by the
time that you arrived with firefighter Wallsfrom the stretcher, what if anything could
you see that firefighters malati Into orAnttal or anyone else was doing with reference

(02:51:48):
to miss roy Uh. They bythat point it seemed like they had they
had already got him pretty much securedon a on a backboard, uh,
and they were ready to move himto the stretcher. And once mister o'keef
has then moved with the backboard fromwhere he was or where you are what

(02:52:09):
happened? So I remember Tony waskind of at the head of the stretcher.
I was standing on the side.There was a woman next to me.
Uh, And Tony said to me, can you try to figure out

(02:52:30):
what happened? Any kind of motionedto this woman that was next to me?
And this so firefighter from Audi wholead paramedic direction to ask questions of
this female? Correct? Yes,And I'm fair to say this woman that
was next to you you didn't knowwhere, you never met before. No,

(02:52:52):
from your conversations with her that day. Can you see that woman in
the court? Yes, just thatas to where she's see the door,
audible clothing she's wanted as a recordof like identification. Okay, Now with
respect to this woman she's standing nextto you when you're at the side of

(02:53:13):
the structure, correct, yes,And what if any observations did you sort
of initially make as far as hernina or how is she sort of acting
when you first started to engage,she seemed very upset, very upset.
And when you say she seemed veryupset, what what about her did you

(02:53:35):
observe to me? Makes you saythat just her facial expression. She was
just visibly distraught. And so asfar as your questions, what type of
questions are you asking or what typeof information are you looking for from this
person? So just basic demographic info, who the patient is, his name

(02:54:01):
is, date of birth, Andthen as far as any more questioning,
it's you're trying to gather information thatwould basically help explain how this person ended
up in the scenario that they're in. So did he have any medical problems?

(02:54:22):
Does he take any medications daily?Does he have any allergies to medications?
So I was asking those questions.And as you're asking those questions,
what if anything is that is reallydoing? She she answered who the patient
was, his birthday? I thinkshe answered the maybe some of those initial

(02:54:46):
medical questions that I asked she wasbut as I said, she was very
distraught. She she was kind ofmoving around the scene a little bit,
so I was like just kind offollowing her. And then we came to
a stop at one point and Icontinued to ask a or I asked one

(02:55:07):
more question? What was that onemore question? So at that point I
asked her if there had been anysignificant trauma that happened before this what I
kind of thing, she said.So she said, I hit him.
She repeated it. There was awoman standing across from her, who,

(02:55:30):
I believe at that point said you'rehysterical. You need to calm down.
You're hysterical. She repeated, Ihit him. And there was a police
officer who was in that vicinity kindof with us, who replied, you
what. She repeated it one moretime, and that officer then signal to

(02:55:54):
somebody, get goodie down here,which I'm assuming would be the sorry genth.
So when you have this conversation,if you were all you mentioned that

(02:56:16):
the other person who was across fromyou was just got something from your department
or an officer. So it wasI was standing I the Karen Reid was
to my right. There was anotherwoman to the left of me, kind

(02:56:37):
of across from her, and thenthere was a police officer kind of not
directly across from me, but uhwithin like within the same kind of area
that was more closer to Karen.I would say, and you know who
that was? I don't you knowwho the female or a civilian person that

(02:57:01):
was a crossing. You never knowwhat that person's name is. No,
And with respect to when miss Reidsaid this and repeatedly, I hit it.
Uh, you described for the jurysort of the tonality of that how
she seemed. She was very,very upset. She seemed hysterical. I

(02:57:24):
would even say, just just veryupset. Once you receive that information,
did you follow up with any otherquestions and just read at that point?
At that point, I did not. I have to drive the ambulance.

(02:57:45):
So it's a time sensitive situation.So I knew I had to drive the
ambulance. It was said in thepresence of the police officer. So I
felt like that was the appropriate uh, that that information was appropriately transferred.
And I just felt based on herdemeanor, I don't think it would have

(02:58:07):
been productive for me to continue toask her questions at that point. And
so after asking him, receiving thatanswer, if I hit him, where
did you go? So I wentto the ambulance and reference to the ambulance.
Did you go to the back ofthe ambulance, front of the ambulance?
Where did you go? So?I went to the back of the

(02:58:28):
ambulance where the patient care was happening. And as far as the information that
you had received from defendant, didyou relay that information to any of the
other firefighters from your apartment in theback of the end, I did.
And you recall who was there inthe back of the ambulance when you relate

(02:58:50):
that Tony was there, Tim,I think maybe firefighter Kelly right at A.
Walsh maybe might have been in thereat that point. Now, as
far as when you get through theback of the influence, what if anything

(02:59:11):
did you do with reference to assistsor help As far as patient care with
regards to Miss roke Keith, Ididn't assist or partake in any patient care.
Now far to putting mister Keith intothe back of the ambulance, and
prior to your conversation with the fens, what if any observations had you made

(02:59:33):
during the brief time that you're onthe side of the stretcher of misstro Keith
and any Indians. I noted hehad injuries to his face. I noticed
some blood from his nose, fromhis mouth, and most notably, he
had some swelling to his eyes,mostly the right eye, and a laceration

(03:00:00):
above the right eye. And sameas far as when you went to the
back of the ambulance to relate theinformation that you have been asked to obtain
what if any injuries did you observe? Miss wants to visit back. Oh,
I'm sorry that I observed those injuriesin the back of the ambulance.
I didn't observe those injuries while hewas out on the structure. I didn't

(03:00:26):
get a good look at him.You really hadn't got a good look into
it right right now, as faras you indicated you drove the ambulance from
Fairview, where did you go toGood Samaritan Hospital? And as you were
driving that ambulance along the roads fromCanton's Rock, And what if anything you

(03:00:46):
know as far as visibility, roadconditions things, It was there was poor
visibility, the roads weren't plowed yet, so it was a it was a
took a probably longer than usual basedon the conditions, And I apologize.
But if I can take you justa step back further for a moment,

(03:01:07):
just in reference to when you're inthe back of the ambulance mitigated the injuries
at your curve, what if anyobservations did you make as far as the
clothing and stroking. I noted thathe was wearing jeans. I noticed a
lighter like a black zip up jacketor sweatshirt. It was like a lighter

(03:01:28):
jacket. I noticed he had oneone sneaker on and that that was it.
You recall which was the speakers on? I don't all right? Could
I see council for a second?Places trying to figure out some logistical things

(03:01:50):
because we're going to go in aYouTube. We're going to finish with a
testimonal person. We'll go on yourview after we finishest. But a couple
of things about the you please dresscomfortably. I really appreciate everybody's dressing respectfully
for cool, but we're comfortable shoesat Easter tomorrow. So those three cautions.

(03:02:13):
Please do not discuss this case withanyone. Don't do any independent research
or investigation into the case. Ifyou happen to see here and anything about
the case, please disregard it.I'll let us know and bother of you.
I'll give you some preliminary instructions onthat. Just thanks. We to
see them all and tomorrow's full day. Goodbye, hight bye. If I

(03:03:05):
McGlaughlin, you can step down,we'll see you tomorrow morning. Did you
want to see me at sidepart I'lljust briefcher Hey, there Karen Reid Trial
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