Boyfriend Cop Murder Trial – MA v. Karen Read – Day 6

• Sgt. Sean Goode - Canton PD
• Michael Lank - Canton PD
• Lt. Charles Rae - Canton PD

Episode Transcript

(00:06):
Do we have back do we havefor the company of your attendant, Shelby
Hurt Let's say Massachusetts, maybe twentytwo, the Carwell versus Karen Reid.

(00:29):
Can I have counsel identify themselves forthe record? Adam Miley for the call
off the morning you're on? Morning, mister Lilly, morning, your honor.
Laura McLoughlin for the coin. Goodmorning, Miss McLoughlin, Your honor
Alan Jackson from the street, Goodmorning, mister Jackson. Good morning,
your honor. Elizabeth Little also onthat happen It's good morning, Miss Little,
and good morning, your honor.David Unetti for Karen Reid, Good
morning, Miss Jeanetti, Good morning, Miss Reid. Good morning jurors.

(00:52):
So I apologize for the delay thismorning. What I'm going to start doing.
We don't want to keep you folkswaiting, and sometimes there's traffic for
rotheries since that we had delayed ratherthan recording at a twenty in the morning,
put in to report it. Okay, just we read you have us
waiting, then you have I dohave to ask you those three questions.

(01:15):
Was everyone able to follow the instructionsand refrain from discussing this case? With
anyone since we left yesterday. Everyonesaid yes or not it affirmatively? Were
you also able to follow the instructionsand refrained from doing any independent research or
investigation into space? Everyone said yes, I'm not a afterminatively, did anyone

(01:37):
happen to see, hear, orread anything about this case since you left
yesterday? Everyone said no? Okay, thank you very much. Could we
have sergeant good please? Thanks toyees so confur here always you get the

(02:07):
court injury the case over here andshould to treat the culture to nothing but
the truth will help you God.Yes, okay, good morning, we
all said, Mark proced Yes,good morning, sergeant. Good morning,

(02:30):
sergeant. You are familiar with thekey swipe system at the Campton Police Department.
Yes, could you explain to thejury how that works? So police
officers are issued a looks like acredit card. I have it in my
wallet anytime I enter or leave thepolice department. The xterary doors going out

(02:51):
the back are there's a there's akey scan you have put up to it
unlock the door to come in.When you leave, you don't have to
go in, but if you needto go into the booking area you have
to scan yourself in and out andget out of the scale. Police,
you have to scan it out,okay, And just trying to keep your
voice up so that yes, lastfu jurors can hear you. How many

(03:15):
officers on your department have those keysthat can be swiped? I would believe
all of them, okay? Andhow many or strike that. Do you
know how this information is stored atthe Kenton Police Station. I do not.
I don't know the software, butI believe it's recorded anytime we would

(03:36):
come and go. Okay, Andyou said you believe that it's recorded at
the time that the information is obtained. In other words, somebody key swipes
in and that information is then storedyou believe at the Canton Police station.
I don't know the software, soI wouldn't be able to give you an
educated response to that. And doyou yourself, as a sergeant have access

(04:00):
to the key swipe data or isthat limited to certain officers at the department.
I don't believe I have access tothat. I've never access never accessed
it. Okay, your honor.We do have a stipulation between the parties,
if the court will accept it,to introduce the key swipe records from
January twenty ninth of twenty twenty two. Okay, I would offer that as

(04:24):
the next exhibit. Any objections toley, No, you're okay? Are
they subject to reactions? Yes?We have redacted them. The court can
certainly take a look to make surethat have you all agreed to the redactions?
May we approach just as to that? Yes? Before you now took

(04:46):
the stand today, did you goover your report by police? What?
Yes? Yes? All right?Were you looking for anything specifically? No?
How long did you take to reviewthat report between yesterday and today?
Scand over it? A few minutes? Sure? Yes? Have you spoken

(05:11):
to anybody about your report? No? Nobody from the Canton police. No.
You recalled that I had asked youabout the fact that one name had
not been completely spelled out in termsof the first name. Right, Yes,
and you had I believe indicated thatSergeant Blank was the one that altered

(05:33):
that or added that to the report, not all to do so. He
was the one that got those names. So when he entered his reporting,
I believe he would enter those okay, and so he answered that into your
report? Correct. Anybody writes asupplemental if you have the authorsation can enter
who you speak to to have thosenames. I only spoke to Miss Roberts,

(05:57):
Miss Read and Missmackabed that morning.Okay, but the report has your
name on it. Correct. Yes. Did you speak to anybody from the
prosecution, either mister Lally or MsMcLaughlin or anybody else from that office about
this issue? No? You wouldagree with me that it is important when

(06:18):
you're writing a police report to betransparent. Correct. Yes, you want
to be clear correct. Yes,you do not want to mislead the reader
into believing something that is not true. Correct. Yes. Can I see
a queue for identification place? Thankyou, sir? May I approach you

(06:43):
on it? Yes, I'm showingyou first p for identification. You identified
that yesterday? Correct. Yes,we went over with the jury the five

(07:03):
bits of information that are up atthe top of the report, starting with
the incident number. Correct. Yes, you had indicated again incident twenty two
Dash eighty seven, dash of yes, call twenty two dash four forty nine.
Yes. Dayton Time reported January twentynine to twenty two at six oh

(07:23):
eight. Yes, and the reportDayton Time was January twenty nine to twenty
two at eight twenty four am.Correct, Yes, Reporting Officer, Sergeant
Sean Good. Correct. Yes,I'd like to show you now what has
been marked Q for identification, andyou can hang on to PE if you

(07:44):
like. With regard to those bitsof information, well, first of all,
let me have you identify Q foridentification. I'm sorry, yes,
I'm reading Q. Okay? Whatis Q for identification issue exhibit qu right?
What is the actual document? Wecall this a face sheet? Okay,

(08:07):
And with regard to P for identification, that's also a face sheet.
Correct. Yes, they appear tobe nearly identical. Correct. Correct,
except I'm looking at the top rightcorner. Once says one thirty twenty twenty
two, and the next would betwo. That is the print date of

(08:33):
the report. Correct, Okay,I don't know so regardless of when those
two face sheets had been printed,ignore that. With regard to the information
about the incident number and the dateof the report and the date of the
incident and the reporting officer, thoseappear to be identical. Correct. Correct.

(08:54):
Now, with regard to P foridentification, which is the first report
that you were shown, and youwere shown that yesterday and now you have
it in front of you, thereis a photo on the right side of
that report, is there not?Do you know what that photo is of?

(09:20):
It looks like the scene probably acouple days later when the snow had
melted. Okay, does it looklike a burm that was actually sposed uncovered
by the officers on scene the veryfirst day? Yes? Are we looking
at Q? No? At Pyes, P. Yes, it looks

(09:41):
like the burn christ And then withregard to QUE for identification, which again
is the face sheet with the identicalinformation, is there a different photo?
Yes? What does that photo appearto depict? If you it looks like

(10:03):
the same area that mister o'keith possiblyhas found. I believe those two documents
P for identification and Q for identificationthose are actually your report? Correct?
Correct? But can I explain,mister Llwlely? Will I'm sure let you

(10:24):
explain. I'm at this point I'mgoing to be asking the questions. If
you don't mind, uh juror,I would offer into evidence as full exhibits
both P and Q for identification,just the just the face sheet. Is
there an objection? Yes? Okay, the objection sustained. There we approach.
Okay, can I see those please? Mister I'm sorry. One of

(10:56):
the questions you can ask while youwait for this. I'm just getting the
exhibit that I appreciate it right whileI'm waiting for that, may I approach?

(11:20):
Yes? Thank you? Okay,I've placed a photo before you,
Sargeant. Could do you recognize whatthat depicts? Yes? What does it

(11:41):
depict? I believe that's a photoof a piece of a tail like uh.
And when you say a photo ofa piece of a tail, that
you're obviously referring to a piece ofa tail like allegedly found at thirty fourth
fair of you you in Canton.Yes, Now, that photo is the

(12:03):
photo that is included in Exhibit Qfor identification that you previously saw, right,
that's the second photo. Is itnot on the second face sheet that
he gave him. Yes? Yes, all right, and I'm showing you
by an approach again. Yes,what has already been marked Exhibit twenty A.

(12:28):
Do you recognize that? Yes?What do you recognize that to be?
That's the burm from that morning?Okay? And Exhibit twenty A is
the photo that was in the firstversion of your report, which was P
for identification. Correct, Yes,I can take those back from me.

(12:52):
Sir, just like that, right, since down published the twofold. I'm
sorry with regard to the first photothat you identified, which was the piece
of tale light that allegedly was foundat thirty fourth, that was a fair
and actic representation that photo. Correct, Yes, all right, mar I

(13:16):
offer that your honor. Okay,there's no objection, mister, ally,
no, you're okrack twenty two okay, and I'm sorry the exhibit number was

(13:39):
forty two. Thank you. MayI publish twenty A and forty two separately
for the jury on okay, okay, twenty A is you've testified the photo
of the firm that was included inthe first version of your police report,

(14:03):
which was PE for identification. Correct, yes, all right, let's put
up forty two police. No,no, no, I'm sorry. Where
is forty two? I don't haveit? Oh you red? Yeah,
no, wonder sure, Okay,the exhibit stickers upside down, But there

(14:35):
we go. That is the photoof the piece of kill I allegedly found
at thirty four, fairview that youhave I identified as exhibit forty two?
Correct, yes, all right?Now having seen those photos, one was

(14:58):
included then P for identification one wasincluded in Q for identifification, correct,
Yes, which you've previously identified asyour reports report. I should say,
yes, your I would offer thetop portion of P and Q for identification
as a full exhibit. Okay.And there's an objection from the cornwall.

(15:22):
Yes, sure, okay, itwill come in when the jury actually gets
it. We'll have it on thesame nine x twelve paper that everything else
is, and all exhibits go throughMadame Court report. Oh of course,

(15:46):
So Jerry, I'm going to sendjail for five minutes. Okay, May

(16:19):
I see those, Madame of Courtreporter? Please? All right? So
I thought you were going to cutthem. Apparently you probably don't have scissors.
Let's get these so that they're acceptableto go to the jury. I

(16:40):
mean, this just came in withthe whole report on it. I'm sorry,
this just came into evidence with thewhole report. And that's not what
you agreed to it sideby, Imean, I guess we didn't have scissors,
but we're not going to do becauseit's told it. All I was
going to show the jury was thepart that got in. But these are
now in evidence, okay, Andand and that that kind of happened.

(17:00):
So fix them. Do we havescissors, mister clerk, thank you,
So why don't you fix them?Run them through a coffee machine? All
right, we'll take a five minuterecess. And actually, this is probably
a good time for me to say, you know, and it's not that
it's not just the defense, it'snot just the prosecution, but we're taking

(17:22):
an awful lot of these juris times, we're taking days and weeks. Let's
not squander it by, you know, repetitive evidence or taking time like this
that we shouldn't need to take.Okay, let's move this case along,
all right, all right, I'llbe out in five minutes. Eric,

(18:11):
Can I have P and Q markas the next exhibits in the trial?
Okay, thank you, And withthe court permission, I'd like to display
these one above the other. Okay, okay, Sergeant Good, you have

(18:47):
previously testified about the details in thesereports. You would agree that each of
these reflects your report, it saysreporting Officers, Sergeant Sean Good. Correct.
Yes, each of these is pageone of your report. Correct.

(19:08):
Yes, you've previously testified that youcall that the face sheet of the report.
Correct. Yes, each of thesehas the identical incident number and call
number correct. Yes, the identicaldate and time reported correct, Yes,

(19:30):
the identical report date and time correctyes, and of course the identical officer.
Yes. Other than the print dateof the face sheet of your report,
one appears to be in January.One appears to be in October.
The major change is the photo that'sincluded on the face sheet. Correct.

(19:55):
Yes. Can I explain why sothat second photo with the piece of taila
that is included on the first pageof your report, that photo is not
from January twenty ninth of twenty twentytwo. Correct. Correct. You never

(20:18):
took a photo of a piece oftail alight on January twenty ninth, twenty
twenty two. Correct. Correct.You never saw a piece of tail a
at thirty fourth Fairview on January twentyninth of twenty twenty two. Correct.
Correct. Did you personally switch thephoto on the facesheet of your police report?

(20:41):
No? Do you know who didso? Whoever updated the report?
They're supplemental you add photos, Butyou an answer to my question? Do
you know the specific person from yourdepartment who altered the photo on the face
sheet of your report. I didn'ttake this supplemental report, so I don't

(21:03):
know. Okay, I don't knowI took the photo. But given that
this is your report, you're thereporting officer. You are responsible for the
content of that report. Are younot for my report? Yes? Not
other officers supplementals to an investigation,all right, but this is your report.
This is the face sheet for thereporting officer, Sergeant Sean Good,

(21:26):
is it not? Yes? Onthe face sheet? All right? Now?
Would you agree with me that someonereading this report and seeing that the
date and time of the report islisted as January twenty ninth of twenty twenty
two at eight twenty four am,that's when you wrote it. Correct,

(21:51):
That's when I lagged in. Yes, somebody reading that and seeing a photo
of a piece of till like mightbelieve that that photo is from the same
date that you're writing the report.Correct. Objection sustained. You think it's

(22:11):
misleading to include a photo on theface sheet of the report when the report
is dated January twenty nine, twentytwenty two, and the photo is not
from that day, it's from sometime later. Injection sustained. Is there
anything on what is now marked Exhibitforty four on that facesheet that indicates the

(22:38):
date and time that that photo onexhibit forty four was taken. No,
is there anything on exhibit forty fourthat face sheet of your report that indicates
that it applies to some supplemental reportthat was later filed? No, I

(23:00):
may have the moment, Yes,yes, much nothing further, Thank you.
All right, please take the exhibitdown and we need that exhibit Misterian
Eddy. Oh, yes, ofcourse we have two others as well.
Hey, the exhibits are to remainup here with the clerk. With the
clerk, yes, all right,go right ahead, mister Lally, Thank

(23:32):
you so, Sergeant Good. Turningback to some questions you were asked yesterday
in regards to Christopher Albert and whetheror not he was a town selectman.
Is that correct? Yes? Andhe is currently? Is that correct?
Yes? And was he on Januarytwenty nine to twenty twenty two. No,
so he was elected to the boardof Selectman subsequent to this date that

(23:53):
you've been talking about, January twentyninth. Yes, Now, the location
where you were directed to where misterO'Keefe had been located just after sixth and
them, where was that in relationto the property mine between thirty fourth Fairview

(24:15):
Road and the home next door,so I had a guess probably ten twelve
feet to the property line. Now, you were asked some questions about having
been to that residence at thirty fourthPairview Road prior, and you indicated that

(24:37):
you had been there years ago withSergeant Lent. Is that correct? Yes?
And what was that in regards toyou, sir? It was a
hit and run investigation. And ifanyone so, why why were you at
that residence at thirty fourth Fairview Road. So there was a call for a
motor vehicle crash at the corner ofDeniman Washington Street, and the suspect vehicle

(25:00):
had fled the scene off the linkby part of that day. That night,
he followed the oil spill of thevehicle down Denham Street, up Cedar
Crest all the way down to theintersection of Cedar Crest to Fairview, and
the oil spill actually drove into thirtyfourth Fairview where we found the vehicle.

(25:21):
And if anyone did you through yourinvestigation, who, if anyone, did
you associate with operating that? That'dbe Tim Albert. And was mister Timothy
Albert was he charged in reference tothat incident? Yes, he was,
and you know approximately when that was. It was in two thousand and nine.
I don't know the exact date,but I know the year. Now,

(25:45):
as far as your report, youasked a number of questions about that.
I'm sorry before I get to that. You had fight earlier that when
you were leaving the scene there wasa an amount of snow that had compiled
on your windshields. Right, yes, And after leaving the scene, did

(26:08):
you what if anything happened with thesnowfall sort of throughout the course of the
day, our windshield is complete covered, we had to take time Claire off
of windshields and it snows considerably.And then following that throughout sort of the
course of the rest of the dayin the afternoon, what if anything did
you observe about the snowfalls that itcontinually got worse. Now, as far

(26:34):
as your report is concerned what youwere shown and what you've seen, has
there been anything change as far asyour narrative in reference to who you talk
to, what they said, anythingof that of that, No, You've
been asked a bunch of questions aboutwhat you called a face sheet. Can

(26:55):
you explain to the jury sort ofwhat a face sheet is? And sort
of how that's how that comes into be easiest way. It's the top
sheet of report. It's not theactual meat of the report. It just
gives you the date and time.Usually if you can fit it on the
front front of the sheet, itwould be the first party would be involved
if there was a suspect defended,and that's it. It would be their

(27:19):
name, data, birth, socialsecurity number of their personal information. So
as far as as you were saying, it's sort of the meat of the
report, it has no real relationto that. Correct. Correct. Now
you were handed to exhibits or twoparts of report and you were told to

(27:41):
ignore the day that they were printed. Correct, Correct, And so what
if any significance would the dates thatthey were printed have in a relationship with
what's on a patient. So inthat in this case there was a supplement
of reports done after the twenty ninth, those reports were added to my initial

(28:02):
report. You can add a supplementalnarrative. So if that includes meeting new
people, talking to other people,were taking photos of anything you found,
you would add that to our reportand it'd be documented in the supplemental CA
And you had offered I believe acouple of times to explain to the jury
sort of why photo might be differentfrom one face sheet when it's printed versus
a subsequent date when the face sheetis printed. Can you explained to the

(28:26):
jury at this time sort of whywould that do so? If when that
face sheet was printed, if photonumber one was the top photo and now
there's a new photo added that couldbe now the top photo on that face
sheet when it was printed, andhow would that Would that be something that
someone would physically go in and door is that something that sort of within

(28:49):
the system automatically occurs. I don'tknow how the system numbers the photos.
So we added our photos on Januarytwenty ninth, and then any photos subsequent
to that were added. I don'tknow how the software would put them one
through twenty or how many they wereopin for that Okay, if I might

(29:12):
very briefly, you had just talkedabout how Tim Albert was charged as a
result of the investigation that you didyears ago. Correct. Yes, the
evidence in that case, you wouldagree with me, was strong against Tim
Albert for that crime. Was itnot for leaving the scene? Yes?

(29:32):
Sure, Sergeant Blank actually was ableto follow the trail of fluid from the
accident scene right to thirty fourth fairtycorrect, yes, and Tim Albert admitted
that he got nervous and left thescene. Correct. Correct, Now despite
the fact that he was charged.Are you aware that the case was just

(29:52):
flat out dismissed upon restitute injection,moved to strike the objection, sustained Jersey
to disregard that. All right,you're all set, sir, Thank you.
Ron. Who is your next witness, mister Lelly, Yes, you're

(30:17):
to call Sergeant Michael Lank to thestand. All right, so I not
yet, I'll see counsel it sideback. Please, It's important to the
defendants case, So tell me exactly, based on the board yesterday, exactly
what you hope to get into,Thank your honor. With regard to the

(30:41):
what year yesterday, my intention isto closely mirror my questioning of Sergeant Lank
with my questioning of him on whatyear. In other words, the fact
of the fight, the fact ofChris Chris Albert's involvement in the fight,
the fact of his getting involved inthe fight called officers to assist him.

(31:06):
Specifics of the allegations of the localLego brothers as to his conduct, what
they alleged he did, the partthat he took in the fight, their
subsequent release from the scene, goingback into the Kent And Police Department to

(31:30):
file or lodge a complaint, thefact that they were turned away for the
complaint. There was subsequent police reportsfiled, So I don't have those,
right, you didn't send them toWe got those, We got those last
right. Okay, it's too latefor the police reports, but go ahead
and finish what you've got, right, just so the court knows we as

(31:52):
the court requested. We provided thoseto the judicial assistant last night. Who's
the judicial assistant, mister is justlolaitos. Go ahead from the after the
police report. So basically, you'rehonored the and I don't have any interest
in introducing the police reports. Ijust need the timing. In other words,

(32:15):
there was the fight, the complaint, the police reports were filed after
the complaint, and then they werecharged after the police reports, and then
the subsequent resolution of the of thematter the fact, so what do you
mean by subsequent revolution They were adjudicatednot guilty, and ultimately the subsequent witness
intimidation request by Sergeant Blank was thrownout by the DA. With regard to

(32:39):
what was brought up by mister Lalleyyesterday, I intend to include and elicit
in my questioning of Sergeant Blank theissue concerning Tim Albert and the resolution of
that issue. Well, mister Yanettijust did that. Well, he didn't
because the court struck it. Itshould not have been done. Well,
your honored go ahead, expectfully.The Commonwealth left the jurors with a misimpression

(33:04):
intentionally. So last question was andhe was charged. That's true, he
was charged and then those charges weredismissed subsequent there too. But this was
specific we should have it wasn't objectedto, right, So mister Lelli's question
wasn't objected to? All right?So is that the end of what you

(33:25):
intend to get into? Yes,all right, mister Lallly. Do you
want to you're objecting to all ofthis? Yes? Sure? Okay,
do you want to be heard specificallyon anything? No, you're all right.
So what I'm going to allow youto get in is the relationship of

(33:46):
sageant Lank with the Alberts. Butkeep in mind, mister Jackson, the
Alberts are not all one entity,so you must do it individually and Simply
because the witness had a relationship withChris Albert doesn't mean that it has any
bearing on favoritism or bias to BrianAlbert or to Tim Albert. So you

(34:08):
have to do them individually. I'llgive you some leeway on the incident itself,
but keep in mind the particulars ofthe fight isn't really what matters here.
It's the fact of the fight andthe intervening of Sergeant lank On behalf
of Chris Albert as it's relevant tobias or favoritism. So if there are

(34:31):
objections that you get beyond, youmay be stopped. You can get when
and where it happened, that ithappened outside a bar where the witness had
been drinking. He did not acknowledgeyour drinking buddies comment, So you're not
to specifically say that where you justsaid, you're going to outline what you
did yesterday and that this occurred inCanton, the role if any he had

(34:55):
and handcuffing or having the Lappolito's putin custody, and the fact that Mark
Lapoalito went to the Canton Police Departmentto file a report. What you cannot
get into is the mobile gas stationincident. Because I didn't hear anything yesterday

(35:15):
that the conduct of Sergeant Lank hadanything to do with the Alberts. I'm
not convinced that it wasn't merely selfinterest on his part, So that's out.
I was twenty two years ago.Nothing, So you're not getting into
the federal investigation that he was sued. I'm not letting you get into the
not guilty because it's speculative. Whoknows why he was found not guilty,

(35:38):
why they were found not guilty.You cannot get into that. There are
all kinds of reasons people can befound not guilty. Whether I allow more
depends on the testimony, the directand the cross So you are to go
no further than that without leave ofcourt. So the Commonwealth can then get

(35:59):
into the animosity between the witness,Sergeant Blank and Brian Albert because of the
arrest of Tim Albert. But ifMiss de Lally, if you open the
door to something further, I needto be seen at Zibar before anybody can
come get into that. So,mister Jackson, you did this in ten

(36:20):
minutes yesterday. I don't expect youto take two hours to do this okay,
and just as an aside, again, let's not waste the jury's time
with repetitive testimony. I don't intendto your honor. I think I understand
the courts, the parameters. Theone thing I didn't hear the courts say,
but I think it was implied.But I want to make sure I'm
clear. I can. I canget into the fact that there was a

(36:44):
complaint sought and then there were subsequentpolice reports filed, not the police I
didn't hear anything yesterday about the wellthe police reports, I haven't seen them.
So that the complaint was sought,and that subsequent to that they were
summoned and had to go to court, and the dates of the police reports

(37:07):
that were filed. You can saythe dates without saying the police reports.
So he went into they went intothe station to file a complaint. They
were told they couldn't file a complainton those two days, right, and
then the So the witness did testifythat he filed a report, but it

(37:29):
was that he had told his sergeantthe night before of this incident, and
the sergeant said, you don't haveto file a report until you come back,
or something like that. So I'lljust ask where the reports dated after
the initial complaint was requested. Okay, okay, okay, all right,
I'll give you all a five minutebreak and then we have to get going.

(37:58):
He needed yah h yeah h what'sthat? So, mister Jackson,

(38:30):
you'll just alert me before you beginthat line of questioning because I have an
instruction of course. All right,mister Lally, your next witness, please,
yes, I call im out tocall uh Sergeant Michael Lang to the
stand. M h m hmmm.I's gonna ask you, mindful step up

(39:14):
into the remainstream before so I'm sidyou and she did the court and Jurney
in the case down and here inthe truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth. So Ididn't think good morning. Okay, all
right, mister Allie whenever you're ready, Thank you, Good morning, sir,

(39:38):
Good morning. Could you please stageyour name, inspell your last name
Michael like l A n ok.And how are you employs H lieutenant with
the campon Police And how long intotal have you been a number of the
camp over twenty four years? Andhow long have you held the rank of

(39:58):
lieutenant with camp? It'll be twoyears in August now, prior to Well,
let me ask you first with referenceto your responsibilities as a lieutenant,
if you could explain to the juryjust in the general terms, what are
your duties and responsibilities as an intendant? I oversee the gun licensing and patrol.

(40:22):
And prior to working as an intendant, what was your role with the
Camp Police before that, I wasa detective sergeant? And how long were
you a detective sergeant from September oftwenty one until August of twenty two and
during that time frame as a textassergeant, what were your duties and responsibilities

(40:44):
with regards of Camp Police at thatpoint to oversee the detective bureau ensure that
all reports were issued to respective detectivesand completed. Now we're also familiar with
the role within the can Police,so they sort of shift sergeant. Is
that correctly? Yes? And ifyou could explain to the jury sort of
what are the differences between what ashift sergeant does and what a detective sergeant

(41:07):
was. Shift sergeant's primary responsibility isto run the daily shift, give out
sectors to each of the cars,and dispatch cruises to appropriate areas so forth.
And if I could turn your attentionto the morning of January twenty nine

(41:29):
to twenty twenty two, at somepoint after six am, did you receive
a call in regard to dispatch thatyour department headers, yes and we'll finding
one called you around that time,Sergeant Sean Good. You know approximately what
time Sergeant Good called? I believeit was six oh eight. And with

(41:50):
reference to that call, the initialcall from Sergeant Thry, what if any
information did you relate to you atthat time? Sergeant Good stated that there
was a gentleman found in the snowat thirty four Fairvue Road and he was
in very grave condition, and hebrought it to my attention that he was
also a Boston Police officer. Andsubsequent to that, in the course of

(42:15):
your investigative work on this case,did you learn who that unresponse and mail
was? Yes? And who didyou learn John O'Keefe. And upon receiving
that call, where did you go? I went to thirty four Fairvue Road,

(42:36):
And if you know about how aboutwhat time would you estimate that you
arrived in the area of thirty fourthI love fairly close, so I was
on scene by I believe it wassix twenty four or six twenty five,
And upon your arrival with anyone elsefrom your department was there prior to me

(42:57):
Officer Sarah, Officer Mulaney, andSergeant Good And when you arrived beyond sort
of the other officers from your apartment, what if any other activity or what
if any other persons did you observe? Myself? When I arrived, I
observed that the ambulance was still there. There was multiple EMTs, and I
observed some witnesses also, and Chrisin the ambulance to understanding mister O'Keefe was

(43:23):
in that ambulance, Yes, didyou ever see mister Keith on that one?
I did not. And at somepoint the other officers who preceded your
arrival, did they direct you wheremister keep was found when they first arrived?
They did? And where was thatsort of in relation to the property

(43:43):
that you were calling If you're lookingat thirty four Fairview Road, it was
on the left side of the property, about eight feet from the road.
And in that sort of general area, what if any sort of landmarks or
other sort of items in that areaof the front yard did you observe?
I observed a flagpole, there wasa fire hydrant, and some brush area

(44:07):
over there, and upon your arrivalon scene, who was the first person
that you spoke to, Sergeant SeanGood and you had some conversation with him,
Zach right, that's correct? Andthen following talking with Sargeant Good,
who if anyone else can speak tous, I spoke to Jennifer McCabe.
And where was it in relation tothe scene that you first voked to Jennifer

(44:30):
mccaby. I believe I spoke toJennifer McCabe right in front of Mark Cruzer
six't eighty three, which wasassigned to Officer saraff And then about how
long a conversation was that initially withMiss McKay, I would say probably eight
or nine minutes. And in additionto Miss McKay, what if any other

(44:51):
sort of civilians did you observed inthat area around that time? I observed
Kerry Roberts, and I I don'trecall seeing anybody else at the scene while
I was focused on Ms McCabe.Now with respect to Jennifer mcaby, that

(45:13):
so after you spoke with Ms McCabefor eight or nine minutes, and what
anyone else would speak to at thattime? So after I spoke with ms
McCabe. I believe I was ableto then contact the Seatpack Unit. And

(45:34):
what is the seatpack SEATPAC unit isthe investigative division for the Norfolk County just
Attorney's office. Why did you contactthem? Because I was made aware at
some point that it did not appearthat mister O'Keefe was going to survive and
I wanted them to be aware ofthe situation and that they responded that.

(46:00):
No. Now, with reference tothat sort of a typical protocol or what
if any sort of typical protocol whichyou have responding to the scene of this
nasue, Yes, any any sortof scene where it's it appears that the
person is not going to survive,we would contact State Police SEEDPAC unit.

(46:22):
And why is that? Because theyinvestigate all deaths, so they have jurisdiction
overall unattended deaths. Is that correct? That's correct? Well, homicide things
of that nasure correct. Now,Once you your call, if anyone you
spoke to on that first call ornotification to to seedback, it would have

(46:45):
been just the dispatch center on thefirst call, And what if any subsequent
calls you have with regard to Seedbackwhile you're on scene that morning, I
got a return call from Trooper MichaelProctor. From your conversation with Trooper Proctor,
what was your understanding as far astheir response to the scene at that

(47:07):
time? So, at that pointin time, Trooper part Proctor informed me
that they would not be responding.I don't know what that noise is,
but if I could disasterin you torepeat your last response, because frankly yes,

(47:29):
in speaking to troop of Proctor,he advised me at that point that
they would not be responding. Anddid he inform you as a why why
not? At that time? Objectionesteem? Now, when you arrived on
scene, what if anything did younot? As far as the weather conditions,
the weather conditions were extremely poor.There were high winds, heavy snow,

(47:54):
and freezing temperatures. Now, youmentioned when you first arrived on seeing
mister o'keys in the back of thatangulance. Is that correct? That's correct?
And when was it that the ambulanceleft in relations to when you were

(48:16):
lived very very shortly after I arrived, I would say within five minutes.
Now, as far as injuries tomister o'keys, if anyone related any information
in regard to that, Sergeant Gouldadvised me that projection sustained. H Now,

(48:47):
as far as following your conversation withMiss mckabe, what was sort of
the next episode so constant? AfterI spoke to Ms McCabe, I advised
her that we were going to needto speak with the homeowners. She said
that they were probably sleeping. Iadvised her that we were going to need
to speak with them, and that'swhen I placed the call to the Seapack

(49:09):
unit. And prior to that,when you were on scene, had you
seen anyone come in or go outof the residents at thirty fourth Febuar Road.
No, And as far as sortof the other houses on the street,
what if any activity did you observewith reference to a residents of those

(49:30):
homes coming in and going out oftheir homes? I did not observe anybody
come in or out of their homefollowing your initial call to you see back
in conversation with Cold Proctor, whatis it that you did now? Once
that call was complete, Sageant Gooden, I observed that there was now a

(49:52):
light on in the house of thirtyfour Fairview and we made the decision to
then go in and speak with thehomeowners. And how was it that you
sort of proceeded up to the home. I believe I don't recall if we
used the I believe we used thedriveway, but I'm not one hundred percent
sure. And you came into thehome. Call which door that you used

(50:17):
antea the main door of the frontdoor. When you entered into the main
door, what if you could describeto the jury sort of what you observed
as far as what was before youfrom a layout perspective, there was a
staircase right in front of us,and to the right it entered into like
what appeared to be like a diningarea. And if anyone did you did

(50:43):
you speak with inside the home thatmorning, Brian Albert and Nicole Albert?
And what if any relationship to thehome did you determine based on your conversation
about they were the homeowners? BrianAlbert? Is that someone that you new
pride to anywhere? Twenty nine,twenty twenty, Yes, how did you

(51:04):
know? I knew him as theoldest of the Albert brothers. And did
you know some of the other Albertbrothers? Yes? And let me ask
you this, sergeant, where didyou grow up Canton? And how long
have you lived in can We movedhere? Excuse me. We moved to

(51:27):
Canton when I was five years old, So essentially since you were five years
old you lived in the town prest. Yes you work in the town prect
Yes, you have children? Ido any of them play sports? They
do? Insisting moved to strike startthere? What if any other sort of

(51:52):
other than living and working in thetown, What if anything else is it
that you do around the town.I coach youth sports and have you done
how long have you done that for? I would say at least nine or
ten years? And how would youdescribe your relationship with Brian Apple prior to

(52:16):
that? January twenty nine, twentytwenty Sybil, are to you friends?
Do you socialize? No? Now? In addition to Brian Albert and Nicole
Albert? Who if anyone else where? Did you speak to them with them

(52:37):
just inside the door by the staircase, And how would you describe their demeanor
when you were speaking to them?They appear It's especially mister Albert appeared disheveled,
looked like he had just woken up. And about how long a conversation
was it between Brian Albert and NicoleAlbert that initial I'd say fifteen twenty minutes.

(53:07):
And beyond that, what if anyoneelse did you see within the home
besides yourself, Sergeant Goods in,mister Jennifer mcape, no one else at
that time. Are you familiar witha gentleman named Brian Kines? I am,
and how are you familiar with him? I met Brian when he was

(53:30):
stationed at our police station. Idon't know how many years ago it was,
but he was assigned to our buildingyears ago. That's how I met
him. And sign it in what'sfascinating what I mean by that? What
did you do that work? Brianis a ATF agent. And did you
see mister Higgins at any point intime during the time that you were at

(53:52):
fair of You Road that morning?On my initial response, so sometime after
is that correct? Yes? Andwhat about was that? That would have
been shortly after nine am And we'llget to that in a moment. But
after your conversation with Brian Albert andNicole Albert inside the house, what is

(54:14):
it that you did that? Couldyou repeat that please? After talking to
the homeowners, what was your nextstep on scene that day? What did
you do next? After speaking withthe family, came out. By that
point, Lieutenant Gallagher was on sceneand spoke with Lieutenant Gallagher as to what

(54:34):
we were going to do next asfar as the scene itself, and to
that end, what a thing didyou or the other officers do with regards
to a sort of security of thescene of that So we had put up
some crime scene tape to try toprotect the scene, but it was it
was a feudal effort because of thewind. But there were there were marked

(55:00):
patrol cars in front of the yardat all times, so the scene was
fairly secure at all times. Andthen in the nation to scene or the
area that you were directed or yourattention was directed to us to where miss
Joe Keith had been found, whatif anything did you do with reference to

(55:21):
that area? I stood by itobserved while Lieutenant Gallagher used a leaf blower
to try to clear the top layersof snow off of the scene. And
at some point in time, wellthat that particular process was that memorialized in
any way? Yes? And howwas how was it done? So in
my report I'm sorry you know thatwas there any sort of photos or video

(55:45):
that we're taken of that leaf blowerprocess. Yes, Sogeant Good was able
to take video while Lieutenant Gallagher usedthe leaf floor and you've seen that video,
is that correct? Yes? Andwhat's contained in that video is that
paren actorate portrayler. Sort of whathappened on seeing that morning? Yes.
Now, in addition to well,let me ask you this, as far

(56:07):
as the leaf blower was concerned,what was sort of the purpose of that
or what was it thinking behind that? The purpose behind the leaf blower was
to just take the top layers ofsnow off to reveal what was underneath and
try to preserve any potential evidence.And upon employing that, what if anything
did you then observe in that areaof the front of Ultimately we were able

(56:30):
to see what appeared to be blooddrops in the snow, as well as
a drinking glass, cocktail glass.Now, in addition to the video that
was taken with regard to the leafblowing process or the use of the blower,
were the photos that were taking themseen as well? Yes? And

(56:52):
he is going if I could haveexhibit number twenty seven, cool, I'll
talk to Lank. What's up onthe screen. It's been previously marked as
you recognize that yes, and wheredo you recognize it? The peace?

(57:15):
I recognize that to be the scenethat we were working with, the leaf
floor approx. Wings. Yes,I'm handing you a laser corners. Press
on that button. Okay, thankyou, Lank. We're using that lady

(57:36):
corner. If you could draw thevarious attention to what, if anything of
significance you observe in this photographic relationsto what you saw and seeing that,
so pear to see uh, blooddrops here in the snow that had been
revealed by wiping away the top layeras well as a the glass protruding from
the snow, and I'm just goingto take that down. At any point

(58:15):
in time when you were on scene, did you have any contact or interaction
with a person named Karen? Idid not. Did you seek her on
scene at all that day? Idon't recall seeing her. I believe she
was there while I was there,but I don't I never spoke to her.

(58:37):
Now, following your initial conversation insidethe home of thirty fourth fair of
you with Ryan Albert, Nicole Albertand speaking to Jennifer mckayb outside, what
if anyone else did you speak withthat arrived on scene that morn Matthew mckaybe.
And when was it that Matthew McCabearrived in relation to your arrival and

(59:00):
when you spoke to the other.Matthew McCabe arrived just a couple of minutes
after I had walked out of thehouse the first time. And so when
he arrived, where did you go? Moments after he arrived, I went
back into the house to speak withmister mcable. And about how long a
conversation was it that you were inthe house when he was speaking of mister

(59:22):
mcab I'm not sure. I'd saymaybe five minutes. And over the course
of that morning. About how manytimes did you go into the residence of
thirty fourth character Rod three? Anyoneever tell you that you couldn't go into
the hall or that stopped to atthe doorway or anything like that. No,

(59:45):
And with reference to inside of thehome, what if any observations did
you make of sort of situated,anything shoveled or anything like that, everything
appeared in order? Just if youknow, what if any relationships is Matthew
McCabe have to Jennifer. Matthew mccabis Jennifer McCabe's husband now turning back to

(01:00:10):
what was just up on the screenand Exhibit twenty seven. With regard to
that those items that you observed inthe yards in the front law on that
day, what if anything to dowith the other officers do with respect those
items. The drinking glass was securedinto an evidence bag and the blood drops

(01:00:37):
were secured into six solo cups.And why were they secured into a six
solo cups? We did the bestthat we could with the situation, with
the weather deteriorating situation, Lieutenant Gallagherwas able to attain the solo cups from

(01:01:00):
Lieutenant Kelleher's house which was diagonally acrossthe street. Now, with respect to
the SEAPAC unit of the phone callthat you made in the state, beyond
sort of the jurisdiction of them havingover run attendant deaths and things of that
nature, what if any other assetsthat the state police have at their disposer
with regard to crime scene that yourdepartment, they have crime scene units that

(01:01:24):
process crime scenes. Now with respectto those items once they were secured,
Just in reference to the solo cups, beyond sort of just putting them into
solo cups, what if anything elsewould you or the other officers do to
secure those those items? Specifically,they were secured into a brown evidence back

(01:01:49):
and following them being secured, wheredid they go from them? They were
then excuse me, they were thenplaced into my truck at that point,
police truck that I was using thatday, and ultimately transported back to the
police station and transported back to thepolice station by by me. And once
you were back at the police stationwith those items, what if anything did

(01:02:13):
you do with them at that time? They were secured into temporary evidence in
the refrigerated unit for the solo cupsand the glass was secured into temporary evidence.
And so when you say it's temporaryevidence, why were they secured into
temporary evidence. They were secured intotemporary evidence so that they could ultimately be
turned over to the state police.And as far as when you secure something

(01:02:37):
into temporary evidence, just in generalterms, supposed, what is it that
you do with that item to secureit or label it or anything else.
So it's assigned a property number,and we would print out a property label
and then that's assigned that's assigned tothe o F number, which is the

(01:03:00):
report. So o F stands fora. So each report that you generate
has a specific number with an OF following it. That's correct, and
then that number is associated with theevidence that you're secure. Correct. Yes,
Now, with reference to that evidence, whether it's temporary evidence or otherwise,

(01:03:25):
what if any restrictions are there withregard to access to those items within
your department? So temporary evidence isaccessible to all officers and two officers from
your part, right from our department. Years and following that, are you

(01:03:49):
aware or what if anything? Areyou aware of what happened with those items
after you secured them into temporary evidence. I believe they were ultimately turned and
over to the state police Americ proachthe winness. Yes, so I'm handing

(01:04:15):
you up a box. Recognize that? Yes? And what do you recognize
that to be pissed? To bea box to secure evidence with a call
number on it? And is thata box that you've seen earlier today?

(01:04:39):
Yes? And with reference to what'scontained within the box, have you seen
that this morning as well? Yes? You know, with the court submission,
I would ask that the wind isto be allowed to take what's in
the box out of the box,sir. Just for the record, you
have some evidence gloves with you incourt today? Is that correctly? That's

(01:05:00):
correct our server for you just gointo that just with reference to the back

(01:05:26):
that you have before you, whatif any markings are on that that relate
to sort of your case your casenumber with can please? So it is
a there's a case number assigned tous twenty two Dash eight SEVENF and there
is a property number twenty two Dasheighteen PR and it's listed as broken drinking

(01:05:48):
glass. And have you seen theitem containment in that bag earlier this morning
as well? Yes? And whatyou observed with in that uh, is
that the the piece of the cocktailblast that you observe on the front yard
area of thirty fourth Airpe Road onJanuary twenty nine, twenty twenty two.

(01:06:11):
You know, with the sports mission, I would ask if the windness feel
owed to say out of the bagand display to the church. Okay,

(01:06:36):
thank you sir. We couldn't placea bad in the back. Yeah from

(01:06:58):
the winness from yes Commas introduced inthe minutes of execute. Thank you now,

(01:07:29):
Lieutenant Lank. Once we were backat the police station, what if
any call did you received from anyonein regard to what had what if anyone
called you want to we're backup state. Jennifer McCabe called at nine am?
And where did you go following thaton call with Jennifer cape H Lieutenant Callagher

(01:07:57):
and I went back to thirty fourFairbu Road. So this is now the
third time that you've gone back andgone inside the residence of thirty fourth fair
of your Road. Is that correct? That's correct? And if anyone did
you speak with along with yourself andLieutenant Gallagher once you returned there that month,
Jennifer McCabe, But how long aperiod of conversation was that second conversation

(01:08:23):
that you had with between five andten minutes? And then following that,
where did you go from returned tothe police station? Now I could turn
your attention to February fourth, oftwo thousand points you working on that day?
It was and in the same capacitythat you had described earlier. Yes,

(01:08:45):
and at some point, well approximatelyeight to fifty am or so.
Well, if anyone calls you onemoment Lieutenant Gallagher and what if anything,
well, where did he direct youto go during course of that conci litech
excuse me? Lieutenant Gallagher directed meto go back to thirty fourth fair of

(01:09:06):
View Road and meet with Chief Berkowitzas he had possibly discovered more evidence.
And in the time between January twentyninth and February fourth, had you gone
back to thirty fourth Pair of ViewRoad at any point no now, between
that time of January twenty ninth,twenty twenty two and February fourth of twenty

(01:09:30):
twenty two, what if anything occurredin regards to the weather. So the
weather had the temperatures had increased,and there was some rain and increased if
you know how approximate how much Ibelieve it made it up to the mid
forties, so well above freezing?Is that correct? Correct? And with
regard to the snowfall that had comefrom the twenty eighth and then twenty ninth,

(01:09:54):
what if anything just in general hadyou well not in general specifically the
thirty fourth fair View What if anythingdid you observe between the snow that you
observed there on the twenty nine fromthe snow that you observed there on tablit
four a lot of the snow hadmelted and a lot of the ground had
been revealed. And when you arrivedat thirty four fair of You Road on

(01:10:15):
February four, If anything did youobserve and where did you observe? Chief
Berkowitz brought my attention to a pieceof red glass that was about six to
six to eight feet off the intothe yard. Now, and before we
get to that, as far aswhen you responded if anyone else from your

(01:10:39):
apartment, I responded, along withDetective Tim Taylor. And the pieces of
plastic did you observe? Where werethey in relation to where you had observed
or where you had been directed tothat mister o'keith had been found on January
twenty nine. The glass was inthe vicinity of where mister O'Keeffe had been

(01:11:00):
discovered. Now, with respects tothat pieces of plastic that you observed,
what if anything did you do tomemorialize where they were? I photographed the
piece of plastic as it sat.And did you or anyone in your presence

(01:11:21):
touch, manipulator move those pieces ofplastic in any way? No? And
at some point after you arrived onscene, who, if anyone to keep
contact in regard to securing those ideas? I contacted the SEAPEC unit and ultimately
a troop or Buchanic arrived back atthe scene. And if you know about

(01:11:44):
how much time elapsed between the timethat you contact and seed back in the
time that can correct. I honestlydon't recall. And when the trooper Buchanic
arrived on scene, what if anythingdid you observe him to do with those
pieces of plastic that you directed asattentions. A troop of Buchanic secured the
item into an evidence bag. MayI approach Jean? Yes, So I'm

(01:12:20):
showing you photographs briefly to put themover and look up when you're finished.
Do you recognize l sir? Ido? What do you recognize in those
photographs? I recognize this to bethe piece of plastic that Chief Burger which

(01:12:42):
had observed on that morning. Thatwas the photographs that you took that morning
as well as that correct, that'scorrect. What's contained in those photographs?
Is that a fair enough of portrayalabout you observed on that boy fourth twenty
twenty two? Yes, it isthe combat seek to introduce in the minutes
the next two exhibits. Yeah,cool, k it's one of six.

(01:13:16):
And Miss Gilman, if I couldI have first of those photographs up on
the screen. And Lieutenantlan, canyou recognize what's picked up on the screen,
Karlo. Yes, and this issort of a further out image of

(01:13:36):
that piece of plastic you were talkingabout it that bright Yes, using the
lay of the point of before you, if you could just straw thetories and
tanks where the photograph, serve that, thanks, Miss Gilman. The next
photograph and serve you again recognize what'sup on the street. Yes, it's
a closer up, close up pictureof the piece of plastic. H.

(01:14:00):
Thanks. I'm just going to newYes anyway, Hi Jackson, think about

(01:14:46):
uh, may we approach briefly?All right? So you're about to hear
evidence of an event that happened intwo thousand and two. This evidence can
be considered by you insofar as itdemonstrates or relates to the credibility of this

(01:15:12):
witness and the thoroughness of the investigationinto this case for which the defendant is
currently on trial before you. Folks, you may use this evidence to the
extent that you find it credible indeciding whether there was any bias or favoritism
on the part of the police intheir investigation in this case, as Jackson,

(01:15:36):
Yes, Lieutenant Blake, I wantto start by asking you about your
relationship with certain members of the Albertfamily. Do you know any other members
of the Albert family other than BrianAlbert? Yes? Can you describe who
those are? Kevin Albert who isa detective on our department, Chris Albert,

(01:15:58):
and I know Tim Albert. Arethose three individuals brothers? Yes?
Who is the eldest brother, Brian? How long have you known I want
to start first with Tim Albert?How long have you known Tim Albert?
I knew Tim Albert when he wasa kid because he was friends with a

(01:16:21):
younger brother of a friend of mine. Straight at what age twelve? He
was twelve? I was probably sixteenor so. Okay, so the better
part of your life. You've knownTim Albert since about sixteen, I would
say. And what about Chris Albert. Chris Albert I've known since junior high,

(01:16:46):
which would be about what age thirteenfourteen? You grew up twelve thirteen.
I was friendly with Chris and fromjunior high through high school and into
our twenties, and friendly with Tim. I wouldn't say I was friendly to
say hello to Tim. I didn'tassociate with him. He was younger.

(01:17:06):
It was Chris's younger brother. Butyou also knew Chris's older brother, Brian.
Yes, I knew who he was, So you've known the three of
them for basically your entire life.No, I had met them. I
had met Brian. I didn't knowhim other than just being Chris's older brother
when we were younger kids. Certainly, with regard to Chris, would consider

(01:17:29):
him a close friend. Consider whoa close friend, Chris? Yes,
first name is only because they're allsure. Sure, Chris and I were
pretty good friends when we were younger. Yes, I want to draw your
attention to an incident in August oftwo thousand and two. Do you remember
an incident in two thousand and twooccurring with it involved Chris Albert. Yes,

(01:17:56):
in two thousand and two, inAugust of two thousand and two.
Typically, you were off duty,correct, Yes, you had been drinking
alcohol. Correct. Yes, youwere approached by Chris Albert out in the
parking lot. Is that right?That's correct? And Chris Albert told you
some information about being in a fight, that he had been in a fight

(01:18:20):
or an altercation of some sort.Correct. He told me he had been
in an altercation earlier in the night, and some threats had been made to
him and his family, and yougot out of your car and discussed this
with mister Albert. Correct. No, you just talked to him while you
were seated in your car. Yes. At some point, did some other

(01:18:40):
individuals approached that same area? Yes? Was there a fight that you believed
was about to ensue? Yes?Did you get out of your car at
that point? I did? Didyou come to Chris's aid by quote unquote
activating yourself as an officer? Igot out of my car and I approached
the group, and I pleaded withthem to not fight tonight. I said,

(01:19:01):
there's not going to be a fighttonight, the six of you guys,
he's here with his girlfriend. There'snot going to be a fight tonight.
Did you come to Chris albert aas best you could as a long
time friend of his? I cameto the aid of a citizen who was
in fear and a need. Thatcitizen happened to be Chris Albert, whom
you had known since you were twelveyears old. Correct. Ultimately a fight

(01:19:26):
did break out, did it not? Yes? And you engaged in that
fight? Yes? And again youhad been freaking alcohol at that point,
correct? Correct? And you wereoff duty on in August of two thousand
and two during this fight. Yes, just like you were off duty in

(01:19:46):
twenty twenty two when you were calledby Sergeant Good to activate and come to
the crime scene at thirty fourth thirtywhen Sergeant Good contacted me, I was
not wor I was due to workat seven forty five that morning. When
Sergeant Good contacted me and told mewhat was going on, then I activated

(01:20:09):
myself and came to work because Iwas the detective sergeant. And that's similar
total sort of activation. Using thatword in air quotes, it's similar sort
of activation that you employed back intwo thousand and two to assist Chris Albert.
No, you did, in factcall for someone to call the police
and get some Canton officers over there. Correct, excuse me, So the

(01:20:32):
in two thousand and two and two, yes, okay, And I failed
to ask you this, But intwo thousand and two, you were in
fact the Canton police officer. Yes, at the time after the other officers
arrived, did you order the otherofficers to handcuff or somehow restrain one of

(01:20:56):
the two brothers that were involved inthis fight with Chris. No, ultimately
did you see whether or not thoseofficers handcuffed or otherwise restrained one of the
brothers that was involved in the side. Yes. And did you then engage
physically in a fight with the otherbrother who was not restrained. No,
they had already been the struggle hadalready occurred, all right, So let

(01:21:20):
me make sure I get the timingright. You did, in fact engage
in a physical fight with one ofthe brothers. Correct, A pond being
struck, Yes, I'm sorry Isay that again. The pond being struck.
Yes, and then you struck himback. Yes, you ended up
on the ground. Yes, wewere wrestling. Yes, And ultimately the

(01:21:40):
other officers had to pull you offthat man. Correct. No, you
ultimately the fight was broken up betweenyou and the other brother, Is that
right? That's correct, all right? And that fight was broken up by
the officers who were on scene.Yes. After this physical altercation with the
brother who was not ultimately restrained,both of the brothers and everybody else was

(01:22:03):
just told by the officers just goaway, get out of here, go
home. Correct. No, Ibelieve one of the brothers left the scene,
fled the scene, and the brotherthat was restrained was ultimately uncuffed and
been left free to go, Andnobody was arrested that night. Correct.
Nobody chased down the brother that leftthe scene. Correct, that's correct,

(01:22:26):
And nobody arrested the brother that hadbeen handcuffed. Correct. And no police
reports were written by you or anyof the other officers about this incident on
that night. I don't recall whenthe other officers wrote THEIRS. I did
not write mine on that night.The next day, you became aware that
one or both of the brothers hadarrived at Campton Police Department to file a

(01:22:50):
formal complaint for having been physically attackedby you and some of the other officers
involved. Correct. I don't recallwhen I was made aware that they had
come down to the police station.You are aware that there was a complaint
sought against you for the physical attackthat was alleged to have occurred. Correct.

(01:23:11):
It was brought to my attention thatthey had come down to the police
station. And you also are awarethat only after that complaint had been sought
the police reports were then dated andfiled against the two brothers. So I
had spoken to the sergeant on dutythe night of the ancidental question. I'm
just looking at it. It's nota yes no question. So he was

(01:23:34):
just asking you about dates. Socan you answer the question, ask the
question the dates again? Please?I'm seeking the chronology of events. A
fight, it occurs, a complaintagainst you occurs, and then police reports
are filed against the two people thatare complaining against you. Is that the
chronology? Yes? And you're alsoaware that although he had been in a

(01:24:05):
physical fight that night, no chargeswere ever brought against Chris Albert. Correct
Jackson? Do you know that?I don't know. I don't even know
where the fight occurred, Officer Lan. What we just talked about is that

(01:24:27):
an example of you using your positionas a police officer to come to the
aid of one of the members ofthe Albert family. It was me coming
to the aid of a citizen whowas terrified and scared for him and his
family on that night. Who happenedwhat excuse me? Who happened to be
Chris Albert? You mentioned Kevin Albert? Who's he? Kevin Albert is a

(01:24:54):
detective what the Canton Police? Ishe a coworker? Yes? How long
have you known of it? Probablysince fourteen fifteen years old? And you
also considered him to be a friendas well as a crew worker. I
do and a call. Yes,and you're also well aware. I mean
you've said it already, his brotherof little brother of Brian. Correct.

(01:25:15):
And you're also aware that the reasonthat your department was ultimately recused from this
investigation, Lieutenant Lake, is becauseof a perceived bias or conflict of interest
between the Albert family and the CantonPolice Department. Yes, there was a
perceived bias. Can you tell meone more time? And now I want

(01:25:39):
to fast forward to the incident inquestion. What was the exact time that
you arrived at the location if youknow, I believe it was around six
twenty four, six twenty five,okay, And you indicated that that was
in response to a book call thatyou got from Sergeant Good. Yes,
that's correct. What made you decideor did you just could you have decided

(01:26:06):
to take this particular call? Wasit up to you? In other words?
I would never not take that call? Okay? Fair enough? So
once you got the call, youknew that you were going to respond because
there was a something very serious afoot. Correct. Did you know at the
time you got the call that thatvery serious incident was occurring at thirty four

(01:26:27):
Fairview. Now, when did yourealize that upon speaking with Sergeant Good?
Okay, so Sergeant Good didn't.I guess that's what I'm maybe I asked
an inartful question. I was askingwhether or not Sergeant Good told you before
you actually arrived, sort of hadto have that it's a thirty four Fairview
he did. Okay, At thatpoint, did the light bulb go off?

(01:26:49):
And you think to yourself, beingthat's the that's the album house I
don't recall if I realized it thenor once I turned onto the street.
I don't. I don't recall.At some point before your car came to
a stop, you knew this isthirty four fair View, this is the
Albert household. I knew that thatwas Brian Albertsous. Yes, when you

(01:27:18):
arrived, who was the ranking officerat the scene? You mentioned? Obviously
we've heard these things, sorts ofGoods off him, Blaney's off Sarah.
You who is the ranking officer whenI arrived? Scip and Good was the
ranking officer? Have you reviewed either? Well, let me ask a different

(01:27:43):
question. Did you have a dashcam in the vehicle that you arrived in?
I did not, and that's becauseit was a Was that a detective
vehicle? Yes, sometimes used undercover, et cetera. Yes, it's not
a fully marked cruiser. No,not at all. The other cruisers you
were where did have dash cams?Correct? Yes? Have you reviewed any
or all of those dash cams fromopser malany Sarah Sergeant good Yes, and

(01:28:09):
you review those in preparation through yourtestimony. Yes. I'd like to show
you what's been previously marked is Exhibitsixteen, and I'm gonna ask if you
can fast forward that to about twentytwo the run time of a sort of
twenty eight thirty five or so withthe court's permission. Yes, before we

(01:28:36):
play this. It appears to bea still image of so let's not describe
that. Sure, what do yousee on the screen? I see two
still images? Okay? Do yourecognize either or both of those images?
Yes? How do you recognize them? It looks like the scene from that

(01:28:57):
morning from my believe believe it's goingto be uh the top one anyway?
Is that six eight three offs ofSaraffs closer in the bottom of I'm not
sure. Okay, it looks likepossibly Sergeant Goods based on where it's placed.
Okay, if we can fast forwardto the twenty eight forty mark or

(01:29:26):
so and play that, and let'spause it for a second. You want
to make we approach briefly. Okay. You indicated that you have reviewed these

(01:29:53):
videos in anticipation of your testimony today. Correct. Yes, I'm gonna ask
you to direct your attention to thetop video, and specifically to an area
right around this area in the video, which is highlighted before we play a
couple of the foundational questions. Didyou meet with Jennifer McCay out behind the

(01:30:15):
vehicle that was that's depicted in theofficer seraph dash camp? Yes? Did
you have some sort of a conversationwith her? I did at some point?
Did you see miss McKay leave yourpresence? And what toured the driveway
once the conversation had terminated, Ihonestly don't recall where she went. Did

(01:30:38):
you ever? Did she tell youthat she intended to go inside the house?
I had said to her that atsome point we got I need to
speak to Brian and Nicole. Whydid you think it was important to speak
to Brian and Nicole because it's theirproperty and somebody was playing in the snow,
unconscious and unresponsive. Correct. Correct, And obviously that could potentially at

(01:31:00):
least implicate people inside the house.Based on my conversation with Miss McCabe,
she had stated that the intention wasfor mister mccab excuse me, for mister
O'Keefe to join them at that house. So I wanted to get statements from
everybody who was there, find outwhat happened. Correct, Correct. I
mean that's sort of the obvious initialpoint of an investigation, find out who

(01:31:26):
the witnesses are and interview all ofthem. Correct. Correct, And you
began by talking to miss McKay,yes, knowing that she was a potential
witness at least correct. She identifiedherself as a friend of mister O'Keeffe,
who had been with mister O'Keeffe justhours before. Yes, he ended up
laying in the snow fighting for hislife. Correcty, that's correct. And

(01:31:48):
you also knew that there were otherwitnesses potentially inside the house because she just
told you that, right. Iknew that that was ultimately where he was
supposed to end up. So ifthere were other witnesses in these sorry,
if there were other individuals in thehouse, and they also were potential witnesses
potentially, and miss McKay indicated,I'm going to go in the house right.

(01:32:10):
I had told her that she's goingto have to wake her sister up
because we're going to need to speakwith them. You didn't think that it
was more important to separate the witnessesand not let her talk to other witnesses.
No, you thought that it wasappropriate to let all the witnesses get
together and just discuss the facts beforeyou have an opportunity to interview them separately.

(01:32:31):
Jection it is just letting her.Sorry, that's fine. You didn't
like if you could direct your attentionto the area that I highlighted earlier.

(01:32:51):
What's so? Did you see anythingoccur at or around the car? In
the distance? It appears to besomebody walking towards the house. Was that,
Jim McKay, I can't say forsure. Do you see yourself by

(01:33:13):
the way in this video? Yes? Where are you right here? Okay?
You've described I don't know if it'sit's great. It's a gray north
face jacket when it's black on thetop, okay, toward the shoulders.
Yes, let's go in and playthe video and I'll indicate another stopping place

(01:33:38):
that I'd like to ask you acouple of questions about. Yeah, no,
I'm sorry. Did you see anotherperson shortened shoulder and stature approach you,
I believe right there? Yes,yes, sir? Yes, who

(01:34:02):
is that? I believe it's KerryRoberts. How's it? Did you see
yourself just exit screen? Right?Yes? Your copet? Did you have
something in your hand? Yes,if you're taking a call? Yes,

(01:34:23):
on your cell phone? Yes?What was that called? I don't recall
it could have Uh, I can'tsee what time that is. I don't
believe that I made the call tothe seed pack unit until around six thirty
eight, so I'm not sure whothat call is to was from. If

(01:34:44):
you'll direct your attention I think nowdown toward the camera below. Yes,
you may see yourself enter the frame. Can go ahead and play it it.
Does it appear you're on the phone? Yes? Okay? Yeah?
How it? Did it appear thatyou walked off screen left? Yes?

(01:35:08):
Still on the phone? Yes?Yah? Did you see somebody following that
same direction? It looked like OfficerSaraff. Actually I'm wrong because that's Officer

(01:35:30):
Saraff right there, So I'm incorrect. Do you think it might have been
a sort of good? Could weplay it back? Uh? With the
courts permission? Sure? Go ahead? Mm hmm. Recognize that person?
Yes, I'm mistaken that side andGood? How is it? Does it

(01:35:57):
appear that you've walked back into theframe? Yeah? Are you followed by
anybody? I believe it's still SergeantGood? Are you speaking to Sergeant Good?
Or you're walking away from them?In that frame? It appears I'm
standing right next to them? Mmhmm. Was it? Did it appear

(01:36:18):
you were sort of walking away fromSergeant Good? Off frame again? Yes,
it appears that I'm pacing. Wereyou still on the phone? Yes?
H m? Was it directing yourattention to the top video? Do

(01:36:48):
you see the suv in the video? Yes? Is that an suv appeared
to be leaving the scene. Yes? Do you know who's in that video?
In that video? In that suv? I believe it's going to be
Kerry Roberts and Karen Reid. How'sit at that point? Are you walking

(01:37:13):
back into the frame on the lowervideo? Yes? At this point,
Lieutenant, are the lights on theat thirty four fair view on or off?
They still appear to be off.And at some point while you were
at the scene, did the lightscome on? I think you testified better

(01:37:34):
earlier. Yes, I think youpaid special attention to that moment and maybe
tell me to stop when you seethose lights come on. It may bee
a minute or so. At thispoint, does it appear that you're still
on the phone. Yes? Yeah, h m hmmm. How was it

(01:38:14):
at this point? Is there anythingthat changed in the scene? Yes?
What's that? It appears that there'snow a light on inside the home.
And at this point, Miss McCabehas been inside the house for across me.
How long have you can estimate maybethree minutes? And are you still
on the phone or have you gottenhave you been to that call? I

(01:38:36):
can't tell if I'm still on thephone at that point. I know so
that right around this time is whenI end up speaking to the seat pack
unit, because I believe I getinto the vehicle. Let's play just a
little bit further for maybe another thirtyseconds or so. H does it appear

(01:39:00):
at this point if you can see, does it appear that you've ended that
call or at least your hands aredown by your side. I can't tell.
Okay, you would agree with me. That's all moment for that.
You would agree with me that thatwas without counting the seconds. That was
about a five minute phone call,and maybe we were better than five minutes.
I wasn't watching, To be honest, do you have any idea who

(01:39:21):
you were talking to now? Becauseyou've seen that. I could make an
educated guess, but I don't knowfor sure. You did notice that several
minutes after Jim McKay went in thehouse, and while you were on that
phone call, the lights finally cameon at thirty fourth fair to be correct?
Correct, At the point the lightscame on, the latter truck had

(01:39:43):
already gone left from the scene.Correct, I believe, I believe so.
The firefighters are all gone. Yes, the ambulance has already left and
transported mister O'Keefe. Yes, theparamedics are gone. The EMTs. Yes,
fire captain and his sub that's gone. Is that right? I'm sorry?

(01:40:08):
Was there a question the fire captainand his sub that's gone? I'm
not sure. In other words,all the fire and EMTs and I don't
see them on camera. Doesn't appearthat any fire or EMTs are still un
scene? Correct? Doesn't appear.So Kerry Roberts is gone, yes,
Karen Reid, he's gone. Yes. So when the only parties left at

(01:40:30):
the scene are members of the Albertfamily, Jen McCabe and the Camp Police
Department representatives, that's when the lightsinside thirty four fair View finally came on.
Okay? Is that yes? Yes? And then minutes after that call,
you did then speak to SEAPAC.I'm sorry to dispatch correct sea Pack

(01:40:55):
dispatch, right, I was gettingto that. It was a dispatch and
the dispatch was to see can't correct. And at some point did SEAPAC dispatch
indicate that they were on their waythey had declined the call? What was
that call all about? So thereare two separate calls. Who did you
talk to at seapack? I don'trecall who handled the first call at dispatch?

(01:41:21):
Okay? Do you remember having aconversation with Kelly Devon? No,
okay, I think we're talking abouttwo different things. I'm talking about Sea
Pack Dispatch, not Canton Police dispatch. Okay, sure enough. At some
point did you have a conversation withwell, let me ask it this way.

(01:41:45):
I just don't know. Did youtalk to both? Can'ton dispatch and
Seatpac dispatch. I definitely spoke toSeapack dispatch. I'm not sure if I
spoke to can'ton dispatch or not.All right, at some point did you
say, did you indicate to oneor the other? I'm responding to thirty

(01:42:11):
four Fairview. We have a BostonPolice officer who has just found I stated
that I was already at thirty fourFairview. You indicated that Basaus in trauma
to his head area. Correct.That's correct. You said, quote,
I'm not sure if he's been ina fight or whatever. Our medics don't
believe he's going to make it.Correct end quote sergeant, like you never

(01:42:31):
saw John O'Keeffe's body correct. Correct, So somebody disclosed to you that it
appeared that he had been in aquote fight or whatever, at least at
that point that was your thought.No, and what made you say,
Well, you didn't say to dispatchthe victim appears to have been shot,

(01:42:54):
correct? Correct? He didn't sayhere did he have been stabbed? He
had been strained? Old and sayhe appeared he had been hit by car.
Correct. You said it appeared thathe had been in a fight or
whatever. Correct. I stated thathe had some trauma to his head,
and I said, I don't knowif he has been in a fight,

(01:43:15):
and then I believe I described itas a I don't remember my exact terminology,
but it was a crazy scene,chaotic scene. Possibly. I don't
recall my exact words something to thateffect, but you do recall your exact
words to dispatch being I don't knowif he's been in a fight or whatever.
Correct. Okay, I want totalk about inside the house for just

(01:43:42):
a few minutes, if I could. You've talked extensively about the crime scene
outside, and we'll get to thatin a second, but I want to
talk about what did or did nothappen inside the house. Did you actually
make it inside the house of someone? Yes? Okay, when was that?
How long let's use from a caveas the time frame. How long
after that did you finally go insidethe house? After she had been in

(01:44:04):
the house. So it was specificallyjust after I got off the phone with
Seapack, so just a few minutesafter we ended that video. Yes,
and you walked either, you said, either along the driveway or through the
arm. I believe it was upthe driveway. Okay, Once you went
in the house, you made contactwith the individuals in the house. Correct,

(01:44:25):
Yes, and you believed, atleast at that point that there was
a potential that there was a letme rephrase that you knew that you were
dealing with a violent incident. Correct. No, you thought maybe it was
just a heart attack. I didn'tknow what it was at that point.
At that point in time, Ididn't know what it was. Could have

(01:44:45):
been a multitude of things. Butwhat was going through your mind at that
point was it could have been afight or whatever because he had trauma to
his head. Those were your words, those were my words. Yes,
okay, So you didn't think itwas like some old man who died of
old age based on his age.Now, I wouldn't have suspected that it
was an accident in drowning or something. Again, it could have been a

(01:45:08):
multitude of things to cause those injuries. So at that point in time,
we had no idea what we werelooking at, but you were aware that
it had something to do with aviolent incident. He had trauma to his
face and he's unconscious, correct,Jack nearly sustain. Did you believe that
there were any indicators that mister O'Keefehad been involved in some sort of a
physical altercation possibly, Okay, andthat's because you use the phrase and trauma

(01:45:31):
to his face and head, right, that's what I had been told.
Yes, so, based on whatyou had been told, you knew that
there was a person laying out unconsciousjust outside a residence that may have been
involved in a physical altercation. That'sfair. It's a possibility. Yes,
Again, there were a multitude ofthings that were going through my head as

(01:45:53):
possibilities, but that's one of thepremiere possibilities, right. I wouldn't say
it's premiere, it was one ofthe possibilities, and it's logical to believe
that if a fight had occurred,very well may have started inside the residents
thirty feet away. Chection On sustained. Did you believe in your mind that
it was possible, given the factthat a violent confrontation was possible in your

(01:46:16):
mind, that it could have startedinside the house? Chection sisteine it reapproached
Yes, man, sure, Lieutenant, Like, given what you believed at

(01:46:39):
the time and the possibility that therewas a fight or whatever, did you
logically think in your mind your stateof mind was it possibly could have started
in the house. If it hadbeen of confrontation, it could have started
anywhere, right. The house ispart of anywhere, right, correct?
So in other words, the housenot excluded in your mind at that point

(01:47:01):
as a as a starting point forthe investigation. Is that right? Well,
the starting point would have been wheremister O'Keeffe had been discovered, and
then based on speaking with the witnesses, there was no indication that he had
ever made it into the house.Well, you didn't know that until you
followed up on your investigation, correct, Well, I learned that by speaking

(01:47:26):
to miss McCabe. So you justtook Miss McCabe's word for it at that
point in time that that was theonly person I had spoken to, and
she gave me a timeline of eventsfrom that night where mister O'Keefe was supposed
to come back to the house butnever made it. Have you ever been
in your force of investigating cases?Have you ever been lied to by witness?

(01:47:46):
Jection? You're on? Can youanswer that? Have you ever been
lied to by a witness? Yes? So it's not necessarily the best investigative
technique to just take a witness's wordfor something, correct. Jection, that's
you need to actually investigate the circumstancesfor yourself into your own satisfaction. Is
that a fair statement. Sure.One of those investigative techniques would be to

(01:48:09):
walk into the house and figure outwho's who they're correct? Can you rephrase
the question? Sure? One ofthose investigative techniques to satisfy yourself that you're
actually getting to the truth of thematter, would be to walk into the
house and figure who's figure out who'sin the house first. I will agree
that I needed to speak to thepeople in the home. I can't just

(01:48:30):
walk in their house, so Ihave to announce myself and they don't have
to let me in. I understand. I'm not trying to parse those words.
I just being entering the home andinterviewing witnesses. That would be a
normal part of your investigation initiative.Correct. Yes, And you also knew
that the most obvious place to lookfor witnesses that may have information about a

(01:48:53):
fallen man in the snow would bethirty feet away in the home. Correct.
Correct, So, once you're insidethe residence, walked in the front
door. Correct. Yes, youindicated that there's a stair that serves as
the second floor. Is that right? Straight? Ahead, Yes, right,
just before the staircase. There's adoor you're left right. I don't

(01:49:17):
recall you remember there's a door thatwhen you open it, it was directly
downstairs to the basement. I don'trecall you indicated on direct examination that you
didn't notice anything. I'm paraphrasing someforgive me. You didn't notice anything out
of place in the home. No, you didn't go downstairs in the basement

(01:49:39):
and looked, did you. No. I didn't look for broken furniture down
there. I didn't enter the basementat all. You didn't look for torn
clothing down there? Checktion. You'reon sixteen. How about anywhere in the
house did you look for broken furnitureor torn clothing, or blood evidence or
DNA evidence At that point in time, I never made it past the front

(01:50:00):
foyer area. So the answer tomy question is no, you did not.
I never made it past the frontfoyer area. So if I were
to ask you one more time,I know you never made it past the
foy Did you ever investigate the foyerarea or any other part of the house
for evidence of a fight? Theonly area I was able to observe at

(01:50:24):
that point, everything appeared to bein order. But you didn't search the
rest of the house for a fightintendant, That's all I'm asking. No,
I wouldn't have had probable cause todo so. And did you seek
guidance from a court as to whetheror not you might have a probable cause?

(01:50:45):
Do you mean a search warrant?That's what I mean. I wouldn't
fill out an affidavit for a searchwarrant because it wouldn't have probable cause.
In your mind, there was noPC to search that house, right ojection,
Let's move on from this. Oneof the ways to secure a premises,

(01:51:06):
any premises, and a normal crimescene investigation, it would be to
remove the witnesses and animals from thatpremises, to sort of freeze it and
lock it down, correct, ifthere was reason to do so. Yes,
okay. Were the witnesses in thiscase asked to come outside the house
in order to freeze the house downas a potential crime scene? No?

(01:51:28):
Were any animals removed in order tofreeze and lock down the house as a
potential crime scene. I didn't observeany animals, did you? And this
is the last question on this issue. Did you do anything to lock down
and secure that premises the inside ofthe house in any way, shape,
form or fashion. Can you rephrasethat place? Sure? Did you do

(01:51:51):
anything to lock down and secure thatpremises in any way, shape, form
or fashion. No? Did youallow witnesses to go inside the house other
than Jim mckab Yes, who isthat? I believe Matt McCabe entered the
house after I had come out.And did you seek to separate any of

(01:52:14):
the witnesses or admonish them that theyare not to be at each other's presence
and discuss the facts of the casebefore you had an opportunity to interview them.
No, And as you sit here, you have no idea When you
were not in their presence, youhave no idea what the occupants of that
house were discussing, correct or whatthey were doing. I have no idea

(01:52:39):
what they were doing, just amoment on it. Yeah. Given the
fact that you were the first lawenforcement officer inside the house, did you
seek to photograph anything inside the house? When you say I was the first
law enforcement officer, I was withSogeant good Us walked in at the same

(01:53:00):
time. That's fair. I don'tmean to be vague, but you were
sort of leading the discussion correct withthe interviews. Yes, at least according
to starts a good you were thegroup taking charge. Sure, as the
first law enforcement officer to take chargeinside the house. Did you seek to
photograph that No? This is thatlocation. No, I did not.

(01:53:24):
Did you make any drawings or diagramsthe layout of the house. No,
I did not. Did you knowwhere the furniture was or was not?
I don't know what you mean.Did you note in a diagram where furniture
was. There's a dining room tablehere, it's got six chairs, there's
a kitchen table over there. No, I did not. Did you note
any any document where the individuals were, the human beings were in relation to

(01:53:45):
each other when you walked in thehouse. Are you asking me where I
were? Or do I make adiagram whether or not you documented that?
No. Had you been told atthe time that you went in the house
that he's found out in the yardthat there was a shoe missing, right,
shoe was missing? No, youdidn't have that information yet. I

(01:54:09):
did not. Did you subsequently learnthat I learned that much later, after
we had already cleared the area.Tell me what much later means, days,
hours, weeks. I honestly couldn'tgive an exact answer on that.
I think I know the answer tothis, But you didn't do any search

(01:54:30):
for any missing clothing from the victiminside the house. I did not last
issue, last question on this orlast series of questions on this issue.
You understand the importance of electronic devicesin modern investigations? Correct? Yes,

(01:54:53):
iPads, cell phones, things ofthat nature. Sure, because they can
record things like photographs, videos,conversations, text messages, and emails.
Yes. Would you consider electronic devicesrelatively vital in modern law enforcement investigations?
I'm sorry violent vital? Yes?Yes, they are critical items of evidence,

(01:55:16):
right, like walking around with yourentire life in your palm your hand?
Correct? Correct? Did you seektwo secure any electronic devices from any
of the occupants of that house thatmorning? No, you just for consent
to look through their electronic devices,for instance, their cell phones for text

(01:55:36):
messages or communications. No, didyou believe, well, turning back to
the questions you were asked by misterLalley, you did, in fact interview
Brian Albert at the scene. Correct, Yes, he also interviewed his wife.
Yes. Did you believe at anypoint before you interviewed mister Albert,

(01:55:59):
that it was incumbent upon you tolet your supervisors know that there may be
a conflict of interest because of apersonal relationship that you had with the family.
Objection sixteen. Did you ever infact whether you believed it was important,
but did you ever in fact notifyany of your superiors at canon p
D or any other law enforcement agencythat you had a personal relationship with the

(01:56:20):
Albert family or members of the AlbertI did not. You indicated that you
believe you spoke to mister Albert andhis wife, Nicole Albert from maybe fifteen
to twenty minutes. Is that whatyou said? Roughly? Did you record
that conversation? I did not.You had your cell phone with you?

(01:56:42):
Correct? Yes, you know thathas recording capability. Yes, was anybody
else with Nicole? When I saywith, I mean in earshot of Nicole
and Brian Albert, when you interviewedeither one of them or both of them
Jennifer mc cabe, so you interviewedthem together. Yes? Did you then

(01:57:03):
interview Jennifer McKay. I had spokento Jennifer McCabe outside, to the best
of my memory, I believe oncewe were inside I was able to get
some more information from her based onthe chronological order of events. And when
you were getting this information about thechronological order of events that was within an

(01:57:27):
earshot of Brian Albert and the ColeOuur. Yes. So when you interviewed
Brian Albert, Nicole and Jennifer McKaywere listening correct. Yes, And you
interviewed Nicole Albert, Brian Albert andJennifer McCabe were listening. Yes. And
when you got this chronological layout ofthe night before from Jennifer McCay, Brian
and n Cole were both listening.Yes. After you met with the three

(01:57:58):
of them and interviewed them, youindicated that you came back. You've already
left, came back and I'm jumpingahead a little bit, so forgive me.
When you came back it was aroundnine am. No, I came
back just moments later. Had youactually left, I may be a bit
confused, so I apologize. Hadyou actually left and driven back to Can

(01:58:20):
Pete No, okay, so youjust came back in the house when mister
McCabe entered the house. No,I'm so sorry. I'm jumping ahead,
so that that's unfair. You left. Now where at the point where you've
already cleared the crime scene? Okay, and then at some point you get
called back, Yes, because missMcCabe said she had additional information she wanted

(01:58:40):
to impart. Yes, when youinterviewed mss mccab that second time for Brian
and Nicole Albert there, Yes,were they with an earshot, Yes,
and they listened to that conversation aswell. Yes. After that conversation,
did you meet with any other witnessesbetween twenty ninth, later in the day

(01:59:03):
Agenuary twenty ninth, anytime until Februaryfourth, No, none, No,
I do want to talk for asecond, just a brief second, about
setting up a crime scene outdoors.You indicated that the crime scene was relatively

(01:59:27):
secure. It was your word,it was relatively secure because there were there
were patrol cars or cruisers sort ofaround the perimeter of the yard. Is
that right. That's correct. Scenetape wasn't working because it was windy.
Crime scene tape was up, butit was being blown all over the place.
Okay. And of course cant andPD has the ability to go get
steaks and just hammer some steaks intothe dirt if you wish to do No,

(01:59:50):
you don't have steaks at can't andpeede. No you eat steaks.
You eat st a k e s. Yeah, I know what a steak
is. No, we don't haveany camped doesn't have. So if the
crime scene tape was blowing down,that was just sort of a let's give
up on it wasn't doing any good. No, in your mind, it

(02:00:11):
was futile. The crime scene tapewas was futile. Yes, it was
left up until we made the determinationto take it down, but it wasn't
It wasn't really doing its job right. And once the scenes cleared, all
those cruisers that were protecting that crimescene were now gone, right, Yes,
And all the cruisers were gone byabout seven fifty in the morning,

(02:00:33):
seven fifty sea. Yes, Sobefore eight am that crime scene was completely
I'm sorry. After eight am thatcrime scene was completely open, yes,
unsecured, yes, and available toanybody who wanted access to it. Correct.

(02:00:53):
One of the reasons to secure acrime scene is to minimize the pos
stability of evidence destruction on one hand, correct, yes, and evidence tampering
on the other hand. Right,sure, And examples of evidence tampering could
be just moving a piece of evidencejection on. That's over. Just not

(02:01:19):
too much further with this, though. I've just got a couple of questions
about this. Could you repeat that, place sure? An example or a
couple of examples of evidence tampering couldbe something as simple as moving a piece
of evidence hooting from here to here. Correct, That would be tampering,
yes, Hiding evidence getting rid ofit right yes, taking evidence out of

(02:01:40):
the scene, or putting evidence backinto the scene correct yes, or even
planting evidence that didn't exist before.All of those would be examples of tampering
with evidence. Yes. And settingup a proper crime scene minimizes or eliminates
the possibility for that setting up acrime scene would could you say that again,
place Sure, setting up a crimea proper crime scene, securing a

(02:02:03):
proper crime scene minimizes or tries toeliminate the possibility of that hype of edicence
tempoint. Obviously it would, Butat this point in time, we weren't
aware we were At this point intime, State police it said they weren't
responding, so there was there wasno longer an area to preserve at that

(02:02:25):
point. So in your mind,well, let me phrasing a different way,
what that means is after eight am. That seems just a way it
was. You found both the bloodthat we saw pictures of and the cocktail
glass that we were just introduced tothis morning. Correct. Yes, you

(02:02:45):
searched the a the area that wasadjacent to where you believed the body was.
Is that right? We searched Iwould say about a six by six
or seven by seven area six sixor seven by seven, roughly six feet
on each side. You were lookingfor, obviously, anything that was out

(02:03:06):
of place, anything that didn't belong. Yes, okay man's size of twelve
shoe would have caught your attention.It would black baseball cap would have caught
your attention, It would piece ofplastic broken probably would have caught your attention.

(02:03:27):
Yes, certainly, forty five piecesof plastic would have caught your attention.
Yes, And between you and alsoSarah Sart of good Off Smlany lit
At Gallagher, none of that wasgone not the only things we found were

(02:03:48):
the stuff were the things that weredocumented. You did find the blood,
however, is that right? Yes? Who literally physically leaned down and scooped
that blood up? And that wasdone in a plastic solo cup that we've
heard a little bit about. Yes, yes, you're aware that those solo

(02:04:09):
cups are unsealed. I believe LieutenantGallagher got them out of a sealed package.
When I say unsealed, I meanthey don't have a lid on and
they're not air tight containers. Correct. So once you scoop up the snow
and the dirt, the debris andthe grass and everything else along with the
blood, they're just open for justopen to the air. Ye, there

(02:04:30):
there was snow in blood. Therewas no dirt and debris in the glass
that I can recall. You're sureabout that. There's no dirt and snow.
I didn't observe any know, youdidn't observe any dirt in snow.
You don't think there's dirt and snow. I didn't observe any any dirt in
the glass. Excuse me? Thecup? Okay, certainly wasn't a sterile
cup. No, certainly wasn't acrime scene cup. No, you're ware

(02:05:00):
that the Massachusett State Police Crime Labwarns against collecting any biological material in anything
made of plastic. Correct? Areyou aware of that? No? After
the well, when you scooped upthe blood, did you videotape that process,
so we know exactly which bloodstain wasscooped up from where. I don't

(02:05:23):
recall if it was videotaped, butwe did not document which scoop went in
which cup. Okay, So ifthere was multiple contributors to the blood,
sorry, multiple contributors of the blood, we'd sort of have no idea which

(02:05:45):
blood drop belonged to who. Correctojection assiscent. Once these unsealed cups were
in your possession, what did youdo with them? The ups were placed
into the Toyota Tundra that I wasdriving that day and ultimately returned back to
the police station. Okay, Andyou talked a little bit about the process.

(02:06:10):
Once you returned back to the station, they were putting a round evidence
bag. Correct, Yes, Andultimately when you log these items into the
timid the name of it again,it's the temporary evidence temporary excuse me,
The blood was put in temporary evidencerefrigerator. Okay, inside the evidence bag.

(02:06:30):
Ye, pups are still inside theevidence bag and it's logged in.
I don't recall that. I'm notsure if I took them out or not.
I don't recall you indicated that there'san item number or property number that's
assigned to them. Yes, thereis generated a seal or label to go

(02:06:51):
on the evidence that's being stored.Correct. That should yes, and the
bag is sealed. The evidence bagis sealed like this red tape that we
see in this thing. Correct,when possible. There are certain items that
can't be bagged, and then sometimesyou create a tag and attach it to
a tag. Right. But ifit's a brown paper bag that's an evidence
bag, you certainly just fold overthe edge of it and just put a

(02:07:13):
red evidence seal on it to makesure that that's secure and not tampered with.
Correct. That would be one wayto do it. Yes, I
don't recall if I left them inthe bag or it took them out of
the bag. I don't recall.If you left them in the bag,
you likely would have if you're bookingthem into evidence, you likely would have
used some red crime scene evidence.If I had left them in the bag,
I would have put the property labelright on the bag so everybody could

(02:07:38):
see it. Yes, Okay,there's an evidence bag with important evidence in
it. Don't mess with it.It's secure. Correct, Yes, son,
we have tab twenty three. Doyou recognize the what's depicted in this
exhibit. I believe it's Yeah,I believe it's miss Read's vehicle. For

(02:08:05):
the record, you're looking at what'sbeen previously marked acid at thirty seven.
You see a little white rag downthere by the right rear quarter panel.
Yes, it's good A table twentyfour. Do you see that white rag?

(02:08:28):
Yes? Sorry, yes, sorry? Did you see it bag sitting
next to it? I do thatlooks like an evidence bag? Does it?
No? It looks like a stoppingshot bag. But actually it looks
like an evidence bag. It justdoesn't say it can't police, aren't it?
It says stopping shop, But it'sit does look like an evidence back.
It's the same thing. That's agrocery bag. It is, and

(02:08:52):
that's exactly what our evidence bags looklike. So that's what I thought it
was at first, all right,except it doesn't say anything about evidence on
it. It says stop in ashot correct, corect What do you think
is in that edence bag? I'msorry, stop and shot bag. I'm
not sure you're where when these fictureswere taken, I could tell that it's
the Canton Police sally Port, Soit's it's some point after the state police

(02:09:16):
had seized the vehicle, and atsome point after you had brought the solo
cups back to the station. Correct. Matter of fact, these were taken
on February first, when Canton thesorry the Mastschusets State Police crime Lab finally
took possession of these items of evidence. Correct. I was not in the

(02:09:37):
police station for those two days.Let's look at the next TABU tab twenty
five. Recognize that it appears tobe solo cups with the substance inside.
Were there just any solo cups orthose the solo cups that you took back
to the station from thirty four?Fair? I mean, I couldn't say

(02:10:00):
definitively, but it certainly looks likeit. It appears that they have red
liquid material floating in the bottom.Yes, appear to be blood. The
top three I can see, Yeah, the only two I see that don't
have it at the bottom two left. Okay, Let's look at the next
tab, which is twenty six,and you see somebody with gloved hands opening

(02:10:22):
that bag, same bag, littlewhite rag right there, I do Okay,
that appear to be the same sixsolo cups that you just showed me
in the previous slide. Yes,yes, so are those the same six
solo cups that you gathered at thescene at thirty four fair View and ultimately
brought back to Cantapede. They certainlyappear like they are, but I can't

(02:10:43):
say definitively, but they appear tobe. I'm sorry, I didn't need
to step on your words. Goahead. For sure, they appear to
be They appear to be the samesolo cups. They but I couldn't say
definitively. Let's go back to twentyfour, and the reason you can't say
definitively, lieutenant, is because they'reis no label on this bag? Is

(02:11:03):
there not on that side of it? No? There is no property number
on this bag. Is there noton the side that's visible to me?
No? There is no evidence tapeon this bag. Is there not on
the side that's visible to me?No? Well, let's look at the
other photographs. Are you well beforewe do that? Are you suggesting that

(02:11:24):
all of that material is on theother side of this bag? I don't
know. I'm not suggesting anything.I'm telling you I don't know. Okay,
let's look at the next lab mixtab. Looking at it from the
top. Does it appear anywhere fromthat vantage point that there's evidence tape that's
ever been put on that bag,that has ever been secured. I wouldn't
be able to tell you that.Well. One of the ways that you

(02:11:46):
can tell that evidence tape has beenput on an item is because when the
evidence tape is placed on it,it's completely sealed. And if in fact
it's that seal is ever broken,it's not torn off, it's cut,
and there's initials put on correct junctionsustained. Have you ever used evidence tape
before to seal anything? I'm sureI have. I don't recall off the

(02:12:09):
top of my head how long you'vebeen a detective. I'm sorry, how
long were you a detective? Whenyou were a detective, I was a
detective for eleven months as a sergeant, and then I was a detective for
fifteen months back in twenty eleven twelve. And in your experience and how long
you've been a police officer, overtwenty four years, So in your twenty

(02:12:30):
four years of experience and over ayear as a detective, you can't remember
if you've ever used evidence ceiling tape. As I said, I'm sure I
have. I just can't recall oneoff the top of my head. When
if you believe you, if youcan recall using it at all. Isn't
the protocol that when evidence ceiling tapeis used to seal an item of evidence,
when it's removed, it's not tornoff, it's cut, and then

(02:12:54):
new ceiling tape is put over itwith an initial and a date. Correct
jaction. Do you know the answerto that? Okay, next question,
thank you. That's what I havefor this. Okay, I'm going to
see console. Letside out for justa minute, measure love with them,

(02:13:20):
Jim m m h. We're bringingthem over, yes please, m please

(02:14:05):
please ride the jury. Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, back in session

(02:15:24):
and eight. All right, misterJackson, whenever you're ready, Thank you,
Ronnor. That's all I have atthis time. Okay, mister lally
H, thank you. I justbrief the serve with regard to incident you

(02:15:50):
were asked about from momus the twothousand and two You explained, uh,
in your own words what happened.So I had left the establishment center Fields
is what it was called at thetime, and the owner had asked me

(02:16:11):
if I could drive a patron homewho had had too much to drink,
so I obliged. I walked acrossthe street to the parking lot, got
in my truck with the patron,and as I was pulling out, that's
when mister Albert approached my truck andtold me how he had been in an
altercation earlier in the evening with MarkLepalato, and that Mark had made threats

(02:16:35):
towards him and his family, thathe was going to harm his family.
They had a young child at thetime. Mister Albert was concerned and asking
me what he should do. Excuseme. As I was telling him what
I think he should do, hesaid something to the effect of oh,
no, here they come, andI observed multiple men walking down the sidewalk

(02:16:58):
in our direction. At this point, I got out of my truck,
approached the group and pleaded with them. I said, guys, not tonight.
He's by himself, he's with hiswife. Excuse me, girlfriend,
there's not going to be a fighttonight. And I did my best to
diffuse the situation, but they weren'thaving it. They made several attempts to
push past me. Ultimately, ata wrestling match ensued. Mister Lappelato at

(02:17:26):
one point said I know who youare. I don't give a fuck,
and asked me what I was goingto do about it. A wrestling match
ensued. I was punched, andat that point I defended myself and didn't
engage in a physical altercation with Mark. Now you were asked about sort of

(02:17:48):
timing of reports. You didn't writea report until a couple days later.
That's correct. I had spoken tothe shift supervisor that night and I asked
him if he wanted me to returnand generate a report at that point,
and he advised me that I coulddo it the next time I was at
work, which was a couple ofdays later. And as far as the

(02:18:11):
police responding to that parking lot thatnight, how were they note by it?
I had yelled across the street whenthe group was trying to push its
way past me. I yelled acrossthe street to the bartender and the owner
had made their way excuse me outonto the sidewalk street area. I yelled

(02:18:33):
across the street and I said,call the police, Call the police,
and they ultimately called nine one one. Now, what if any relevance or
factor did any of that have inyour minds. In regard to your response
and interviews or anything that you didon January twenty ninth, absolutely nothing,

(02:18:54):
and in fact that involved a ChristopherAlbert on in two thousand and two.
Corrects, Yes, And you wereat Brian Albert's residence in twenty twenty two,
correct, Correct, And just tobe clear, just because their last
name is outvert, there are separatepeople. You have separate relationships with each
of those persons. Correct. Correct. Now, you grew up in the

(02:19:16):
town, you work in the townthere to say you go to calls regarding
the people that you know, Yes, whether that be witnesses, people that
you arrest, any of any ofthe like, correct. Correct. Now,
with regard to the questions that youwere asked about mister o'keith, just

(02:19:39):
be clear, you never laid eyeson mister o'keith's body at any point in
time on January twenty ninth, orthey're after correct, No, I didn't
asked some questions about on the cruizercamvideo, whether you're on the phone.
You indicated that you can make aneducated guests as to who you're on the
phone with that Lieutenant Callagher, andso at the time that you're on the

(02:20:03):
phone from that video. Lieutenant Gallagherwas not on scene that correct. Correct
with respect to the weather on thatday, talk about a bit about sort
of the weather as you're on seenduring the time that you're on scene,
Did it essentially persist in the samemanner? Yes? And then later on

(02:20:26):
that day, what if any changeoccurred with regard to the web as I
recalled while we were there, itjust it stayed the same it was.
If anything, it might have gotteneven worse. And from your memory of
that day, did that continue throughoutthe course of the day while you were
working. Yes. Now, withregard to in out of the house at

(02:20:50):
thirty fourth, fair of you ropeeach of those occasions if you could.
With respect to the three occasions thatyou went inside the house people, where
were those people with in the house? The first time I went in,
Brian Albert and Nicole Albert were located, I believe on the stairs or sitting

(02:21:13):
possibly at some point on the stairs. Jen McCabe was to my right.
The second time I went back in, excuse me, was also through the
front door, and it was thesame positioning, except this time Matt McCabe
was present, and Matt was alsoto my right. And then on the
third occasion when yourself and Lieutenant Gallaghercame back to speak to mister Kay further,

(02:21:39):
we went in through the door tothe right, so it's to the
right of the main door. Wewent in through that door and stayed in
like the dining kitchen area, andthat's where I spoke with Jennifer. And
that third time that you went backand you spoke with Jennifer, where was
Brian, Albert, Allowedbert, MatthewMcCabe, any of those parties that were

(02:22:01):
there before or not they were present. I actually don't recall if Matthew McCabe
was there the third time. Brianand Nicole were definitely there. I believe
they were in the general vicinity,but I couldn't tell you exactly where they
were. And same thing when youwent back on that third occasion, what
if anything did you note as faras the interior of the house, anything

(02:22:24):
skew, anything out of place.No, everything looked to be in order.
Nothing for there they reproached very briefly, Yes, there you are,

(02:22:46):
Yes, very briefly, Lieutenant likeyou indicated that you claimed in your description
that you were assaulted by the localleader brothers. Right. Yes, the
fact that they were never convicted ofanything having to do bits is the case
that you're described. Is that true? Correct? You also indicated that they

(02:23:09):
made a either a threatening comment toyou or disparaging comment to you about I
don't give a fraud correct? Correct? Is it true that what was actually
said was you said to them,I don't know who you are, but
I'm going to make your life miserable. No, all of this incident was

(02:23:31):
in furtherance of you protecting a memberof the Albert family when they asked for
your help. Correct. No,it was me protecting someone who asked for
my help, who was clearly infear, who happened to be an Albert,
happened to be an Albert. Thankyou? All right? You are
all set, Thanks, lieutenant.You're Let's try and get some testimony from

(02:23:52):
more more witness and Jerry's we willbreak right at one, but let's see
if I can get more testimony.Who's your next witness? Current? Call
him to call the tenant Charles Ray. Yah, right up, there's something

(02:24:35):
for them the court and during thecase down here. Truth, truth and
nothing but the truth are helping outh the number. Goody good after good

(02:25:09):
afternoon. Would you please stage nameand slowly last name for the jury Charles
ray r A. And how areyou employed, sir, work for the
Cannon Police Department. And how longhave you been a member of the candies?
Approximately twenty five years? And sowhat rankor assignment do you currently have
with the candidates? I'm a lieutenantAnd how long have you had the rank

(02:25:33):
of lieutenant with the candidies. I'vebeen a lieutenant for about nine years.
And what if any sort of specializedduties or assignments do you have within the
Canpolice book day to day? Isgoing to be a patrol shift commander.
Some ancillary duties include overseeing the FamilyServices Unit which includes juvenile services, school

(02:25:56):
resource officers, sexual assault investigations andpopulations. And if I could turn the
attention to January twenty nine, twentytwenty two, you worked in that day.
I came in to work the dayshift at about seven thirty am.
What is the day shift of theKIP seven forty five am to three forty

(02:26:16):
five pm. And when you arrivedthat day at the department, what if
anything, what if anything was sortof going on at the department that dame?
When you run. Well, therewas a well well forecasted snowstorm.
I was in the early stages,so when I came in, there was
a lot of as there usually asa shift change, a lot of comings

(02:26:39):
and goings, people leaving the shift, people coming on to the shift,
and it was a busy dispatch areaat that time. And at some point
after you arrived at work, youmade aware of a call that your department
had dispatch to shortly after six amon that correct And so just in general

(02:27:01):
terms, what was what was itthat you learned about that call? Uh,
the outgoing shift sergeant when he returned, usually is a role call,
I believe that day, I don'trecall it being a role call. But
there was an exchange of information asthat typically is in the dispatch area,

(02:27:22):
and I was advised that there wasa an unresponsive man found in the snow
on Fairvue Road and that outgoing shiftssupervisor receiving sad shand and what if any
information were you given as far asthe unresponsible that he was a Boston Police

(02:27:45):
officer. He was found at thirtyfour fa U Road. Yes, at
some point did you learn what hisname was? Yes? Yes? And
who did you learn mister John O'Keefeand were you familiar with mister o'keefen,
I had never met him before.Now, at some point did you become

(02:28:07):
aware of where you live? Yes, and from what you learned from Sergeant
Royce. In addition mister o'keith beingtransported from the scene to the hospital,
if anyone else was transported from thescene to I was advised that his girlfriend

(02:28:28):
was on the scene as well,and she was subsequently transported to good Smaritan
Hospital, the SAME's hospital that mistero'keef was transported to. And at some
point over the course of that morning, did you become aware of in children
that mister O'Keefe was responsible for asfar as a legal guardenship. Yes,

(02:28:50):
I was made aware that he wasthe guardian of two young children that may
or may not be at the houseat that time unattended. Given the fact
that both he and his girlfriend weretransported based on that information, what if
anything, did you decide. I'mnot I'm not sure if it was a

(02:29:13):
suggestion of the form of chief orif it was just something that organically developed,
but it seemed like the right thingto do, to do a well
being check on the children at theat one Meadows av which was from Steril
Keith's residence. And just with respectto the former chief specifically, who are
you talking about, ken Burkerwitz anda well being checked if you could describe

(02:29:35):
to the jury so or what isinvolved in that? Was it entail as
applies to this situation? As itapplies to this situation, we believe that
there may be two young unattended children, and knowing that both mister O'Keeffe and
miss Read wouldn't be returning to thehouse anytime soon, we wanted to check

(02:29:56):
on them so that if they wokeup and one or where everybody was and
need some assistance, that perhaps wecould provide that and help locate other loved
ones or bring them to the policestation if we had to, just to
kind of provide some sort of comfortingpresence. And within the Canon Police Department,
is there a specific cruiser that's allocatedfor sort of the ship supervisor,

(02:30:20):
Yes, six A two. Andis that the cruiser that you used to
go to one night zone? Wedid. And when you say we,
who if anyone went sergeant? Wehim and he was the incoming sergeant.
And what if any role does SergeantWen have with regard to the department specifical

(02:30:41):
Now he's a detective sergeant and prosecutor. At that time he was a shift
side. And so the six Atwo cruisers that you were driving where that
that has a cruiser camera fixed throughit? Correct? Have you had a
k to review that footage from thatparticular cruiser on that particular morning. I

(02:31:05):
have now, yes, you know, if I could ask to publish for
the jury a portion of Exhibit fortyone kilman, if I could have that
on the screen, if I couldask miss Killman, if you could fast
forward to two hours, three minutesin the fifty preset, and what's up

(02:31:33):
on the screen right now? Lieutenantyou recognize what that is. It'll be
the interior of sally Port door three, which is where the six eight two
would have been parked. And thenfrom there is where you drove from that
position to one metal jap correct,Correct, Miss Gilman, if you could
just run for killing, if youcould pause up there and killing, if

(02:32:03):
you could I have an absent tofast forward to about two hours, nine
minutes and twenty five seconds, ifyou could play show man to keep a

(02:32:24):
positive what's up on the screen,Lieutenant, you recognize that, yes,
and what do you recognize that tobe One Meadows And sort of towards the
middle of the screen, is thatsort of a front door to the home
of that very second? That's correct? The door that you went to?
Is that the door did you goto a if you know, I can't

(02:32:46):
I don't remember which goal we wentto. Now with respect through this moment,
you've ever been there before? Nosubsequent to this, did you come
to learn also that the residents andOne Meadows app had cameras of its own?
Yes? Have you seen camera footagefrom both the driveway in the front

(02:33:09):
door from the residence from that morningwhen you were there. Yes. Now,
as far as a well being check, if you could just sort of
physically described with the dirty what isit that you're doing with regard to a
well being checked when you come toa house like this. We're going to
check to see if there's anybody there, which is typically the case, and
we're going to go knock on doorsand see if there's any activity of anybody

(02:33:31):
at the home and if you couldget lit you can positive there. Mison.
Now, so it appears really youpull into the driveway at one Meadows
app Is that correct? Yes?And there's a vehicle directly in front of

(02:33:52):
correct. Correct, And at thetime you were not aware of for the
particulars of the incident that occurred earlierin the morning, correct. Correct.
And I fare to say from what'sdepicted up on the screen, was that
essentially what the driveway looked like atthat time when you came in there at

(02:34:13):
approximately eight twenty three in the minute, correct? Yes. And as far
as when you went to knock onthe door, are you just knocking on
the front door and then no oneanswers and that's it? Or look around
the house? What is it thatyou do want to will be you would

(02:34:35):
go to the front door or thedoor that you think everyone would use in
a whatever the situation was, youtake a curse regrance around to see if
there's any reason to check anywhere else. In this case, it is a
fence backyard, So I'm not goingto be going back there because if in
this case we weren't looking for someonethat might be a dead body, we

(02:34:58):
were looking for two chill ldren thatwould be up and active. Now,
as far as that vehicle that's parkedto the driveway in front of you.
Did you have any reasons to lookat it and inspect it or anything like
that at this point that you're atthe house. No, And as far
as any condition of it, specificallythe right rear passenger side, you didn't

(02:35:18):
have any occasion to go inspecting thator looking at it at that correct.
Correct, Now, as far asyou're from this video, the condition of
the right rear passenger's side and thecondition these are these the left rear passenger
side. That's how we appear todrive away when you pulled up right correct.

(02:35:39):
If you could hit play, youcould pause right now. So the
individual just sort of walked across thefront of the cruise. If you recognize
that, Yes, and that's youwanna. I'm not sure how maybe we

(02:36:05):
approach Okay, Lieutenant would need toback tomorrow. We willaborate you today,
so sure as that's if you canstay just for me, that's it for
today. We'd asked those same threeor I'll give you those same three cautions,
and please do not discuss this casefrom anyone. Don't do any independent

(02:36:26):
research or investigation into this case.If you happen to see here or read
anything about this case, please disregarded. Let us know. We'll see it
tomorrow morning, so report it afirst during all you're all today, we're

(02:37:16):
good thing. We don't need anythingright all lies please? Hey there,
Karen Reid trial watchers. You knowwhat a lot of the trials we cover
remind me. It's that you gottabe careful who you surround yourself with,
who you let into your life.Do you really know? I mean,

(02:37:37):
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