E14: Dee Dee Blanchard Murder Trial Day 4.1: Dr Robert Denney Clinical Psychologist Testifies

E14: Dee Dee Blanchard Murder Trial Day 4.1: Dr Robert Denney Clinical Psychologist Testifies

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All right, do what needs tobe seated A good one. When we

(00:29):
left everybody yesterday, we were aboutready to do the cross examination of about
the day that. Yes, yes, just your prayer. I'm sorry you
thought about that. Why you wereay you are a doctor or any way
you resume the sam pites have asee how why did you remind you that

(00:58):
you were still a group? Yes, sir, thank you, Sister Trick,
thanks Jerry, like doctor Jenny.How many people with autism spectrum disorder
have you have evaluated? Uh?A handful? Maybe three, four or
five? Not very many? Doesthe three to five include, uh,

(01:19):
mister Godiejohn just perfect? How muchwere you paid for your evaluation that you've
conducted with for the sake I wascontracted to uh up to six thousand dollars
for the uh evaluation. That doesnot include my time thus far in actual

(01:40):
trial. So that would be sixthousand just to to do the evaluations,
for testing, to report the interviews, and reviewing all of the records.
Were doing your records? How muchwere you paid for today's that's in yester,
these spectoms. I haven't totaled itup, but it's one hundred and
fifty dollars an hour. M muchwere you paid to prepare for today's testimony?

(02:04):
Uh? It's the same hourly,right, and I think I had
maybe three hours of record review.Do you know altogether how much you've you've
been paid by the same Missouri forthis this UH world five in pay sixty.
Now you indicated that you UH hadperformed a several tests with district behind.
That's true. Yes, And ifI kind of write I counted sixteen

(02:29):
tests in what you call structured interviews. Is is that about right? Well?
I would have to look. II had it listed in my four
I was what I found it onthe second way you were reported, Yes,

(02:49):
that is correct. And do allof these tests in your mind help
you determine your diagnosis? Well?They as they certainly informed of the diagnosis.
You also indicated that you viewed alot of police reports. Yes,
you do, and you're preparation forthis evaluation. That's correct. Yes.

(03:15):
And among the things you reviewed,among other things, you reviewed a case
sun honey. Yes, do youremember what that was? The Green County
case one? Yeah? Yes,it's an overview of the facts of the
coast. You reviewed a case timeline. Yes, you were reviewed in,
among other things, an interview agypsy blancher. Yes, you reviewed some

(03:38):
reports of two cab drivers. Yes, that's true. You viewed some reports
some gypsy Blanchard posts that you madeon Christian dating for free dot com.
Yes, that is true. Youreviewed the phony information in this case.
Yes, And you reviewed a proposedinstruction with minimum of the murder charge.

(04:00):
Is that correct? Yes? Idid. And then a lot of other
stuff, a lot of other interviewsof family members and friends and stuff,
some people that knew mister go toJohn. Yes. And some Facebook messages
yes, many Facebook messages. Now. You also indicated that you had been
a staff psychologist for the FED MEDfor eight years. Well, actually I

(04:24):
was working in the forensic evaluation unitfor eight years. I was actually at
the US Medical Center for twenty oneyears, but eight of those years was
in doing evaluations. Well all thetime I was doing evaluations when I was
in two thousand. After eight years, I moved off of the forensic evaluation

(04:45):
unit and then started working in themedical and surgical units. However, I
was the only neuropsychologist in the institution, and so when forensic cases came into
the forensic unit that had neurologic issuesor re complaints or cognitive impairments that I
was a consultant to that, andso then I would evaluate the pretrial defendants

(05:06):
as well. So I continue toevaluate a pretrial defendants, just not at
the same rate as I did whenI was on the forensic units itself.
And while there, you performed pretrial criminal forensic exams when you were a
corp order, yes, sir,and that would be by the US judge,
Yes, a US district court.And in the last I guess eight

(05:29):
years or so since you been inprivate practice, how many evaluations have you
conduct? The hundreds and hundreds ofthe evaluations, but not unless you're asking
specific forensic evaluation. Forensic evaluation,I apologize I had done not a lot
because my clinical practice is my primaryactivity now. But my forensic work maybe

(05:54):
fifteen cases. And are those mostlycompetency to stand trial evaluation? I would
not say mostly. Most of thecases I get involved in are actually capital
murder cases. I get pulled intoevaluate the defendant at various different times in

(06:14):
the process, mostly to identify whetherthey had intellectual disability or any other significant
cognitive problems. But there have beenthree or four that were competency related.
Now, can you indicate that youevaluate mister Godie John right, Yes,

(06:36):
And you interviewed him for one hundredand thirty five minutes on January twenty fifteen
thousand, seventeen m would that beright? Thine fourteen of you were reported
him to the guest that sounds aboutyour riots. Oh, yes, yes,
And you interviewed him then on thenext day, the twenty sixth of

(06:57):
January, for eighteen minutes. Yes, and then on the second of February,
guessing about a week later, you'reinterview him for another one hundred and
fifteen minutes. That was the verynext Monday. And yes, one hundred
and fifteen minutes. So that's theamount of time you spent just interviewing him.
Yes, I believe that's about fourhours. And then you tested him

(07:18):
with with these tests that you've you'vetalked about, Yes, sir, And
that was on all three days.You did some testing on all three days,
correct, Yes, sir. Andof the seventeen hours that you've spent
with him, were about seventeen hoursyou've spent leaving twelve of them we're testing,
correct you eleven or twelve? Andthen you then prepared to report,

(07:42):
which is dated March twenty fifth,twenty seventeen. I'm correct about that,
yes, sir. Now I wanttalk to you about this when you call
it the Wexler test that they saythat, yes, or the Westler help
Intelligence scale waste for sure, Okay, you had the nickname waste waits Okay,
and it is that now like afourth edition, just the way sport

(08:03):
is this kind of just a basicIQ test, a common IQ test.
Basic could be defined better, butit is the most commonly used IQ test,
okay test. And in this particulartest, you are looking at a
number of things. Verbal comprehension correctyes, receptual reasoning yes, working memory

(08:24):
yes, processing score, processing speedyes, yeah, I'm sorry, processing
speed, and then full scale yes, they're actually in. There's actually about
ten different tests in this large groupof tests, and they clustered to gather
into those different categories. And withregard to verbal comprehension, you gave him
an eighty seven. By him,I mean, mister goodjon Well, I

(08:48):
didn't give him eighty seven. Hecan't be achieved he had seven. Your
story any of all the days givesme speak at the same time ahead he
came up with eighty seven. Isthat correct for the verbal comprehension index?
Yes, and that would be thenineteen percent five. Yes, that's south
sorry, low average range, lowaverage, and that was a lower store

(09:11):
and that even doctor France gave himfor that is that correct? Yes,
he achieved a verbal comprehension index ofone hundred with doctor France right on the
center of the average ranch. Thenon for central reasoning, you gave him
in eighty one or you scored himin eighty one, Yes, he achieved
in eighty one. Again, that'sthe ten percent yes, just a little

(09:33):
bit lower than the first tenregiation belowthe d Again that's a low average classification.
Yes, and that also is alower score that doctor France could gave
him. That correct. Yes,Doctor Franks achieved a ninety with him on
that index. And what do youremember you gave him in a three where
you scored him in age three.Yes, that's the thirteenth percentile correct,

(09:56):
that also was low average, Yes, average to below average slightly yes,
and again lower the doctor Friend's gamecorrect. Working memories, Yes, I
believe doctor Frank's achieved a working memoryof a seventy seven? Can maybe I
worked back down on and I achievedthis. He achieved an eighty three with

(10:18):
me, So I think that's alittle higher. All right, I followed
it, I head I reading downhome on processing score. Ay, you
you scored at seventy four. Correct, Yes, that's the four percentile.
Did you say forty or four horsor four four percent times? I believe
that's about it. I don't rememberoff the top of my head. I

(10:39):
think that's about right. You describedthat as a border line. Yes,
what do you mean by borderline?Well, as I tried to explain with
the graph earlier, there's this rangethat is below the average range, and
you can have the low average ridinglow average slash below average kind of range.
And then there is this zone andyou bet mean that and what would

(11:01):
classically be considered extremely low or consistentlywhat we would think of this intellect and
that range is classified as the borderline. The range that's the borderline mean not
intellectualistability, the close to it.Yeah, not intellectual's ability, but not
low average in between. So it'seven below low asage, yes, sir,

(11:22):
and your pulse, well you getI believe you've obtained the same score
as doctor Franks from that is thatcorrect? On the yes first off processing
speed index? Yes, yes,and then your full scale IQ. You
you you've scored a seventy seven formister god Jack correct. Yes, you
obtained the seventy seven on the fullscale Q and that's the six percentile.

(11:46):
Yes, and that's also borderline,yes, sir. And once again that's
the lower score to doctor France.Yes, surprisingly lower and statistically significantly lower,
as I mentioned, And and yesterdayyou tolways that the DAD is what
the data is, Yes, sir. You mentioned that there's some flexibility around
these numbers, there's some error aroundthem. Yes, And there's some flexibility

(12:09):
around these categories as well. Correctwell to the extent that they're labor in
certain ranges. They're generally not withthe one exception of low average to close
the low average or depends on whoyou ask, what that's called. So
it's very it's very confusing, I'msorry, because there's different classification schemes in

(12:31):
the field right now, and we'reactually trying to cohes that into one uniform
standard across the board, but it'snot there yet. And yesterday with the
takes Exhibit one eighty four, whichwas the Bell curve graph. You indicated
that sixty eight percent of the populationhas nine you between eighty five and one
fifteen. Is that correct? Sixtyeight percent of the general population. Yes,

(12:54):
and the mean or the middle wouldbe one hundred. Correct. Half
the population in theory would have alower IQ than one hundred, and a
half would have a higher IQ thanone hundred. That is true to do
and among those sixty eight percent ofthe population, they would not all be
clustered closer to eighty five or closerto one to fifteen. They would be
spread out along that entire range.Am I correct? Well, they are

(13:16):
spread out, but remember the curveis like this, So they're spread out
from eighty five or eighty five toone fifteen, but they cluster towards the
center. So most fall in thecenter area. But it gradually the numbers
get less and less and less asit moves out. That's the nature of
the curve, so most fall closerto one hundred than eighty five. Correct.

(13:39):
Don't your town is well? Yeah, it's the percent I ranking.
For example, one hundred percent Irank is fifty I get fifty percent,
whereas less people fall it's sixteen percent. To only sixteen percent. That's the
bottom of that average. So ifone hundred is average and you game mister
goading town a seventy seven, thatwould be if I mac is ride twenty
three percent in the average. Well, it's not twenty three percent lower.

(14:03):
I'm sorry, that's a mischaracterization.It's the the the percentile. Wise,
there'd be a twenty percent three percentchange in the percentile. But it's not
like percentages five percent, fifteen,But a seventy seven if it's a valid
IQ score falls into borderline range,and that's a significant deviation from one hundred.

(14:26):
Yeah. Now you administer an adultAsperger's assessment, Yes, and that
is I guess you determine the levelof autism or if the resultism present.
Yes, it helps inform us intothe amount of uh autistic straight tape sorry,
autistic traits that are present in aperson that's taking the examination. It

(14:52):
includes not only questionnaires for the personhimself, but also an assessment of rating
by someone who knows the person.Well, now tell us what an autism
spectrum. Quote, Well, that'sone part of the adult autism assessment.

(15:13):
That's the autism quotient and it's thequestionnaire that the subject takes himself, and
it identifies the amount of autistic lightthinking. That promonly used in research as
well as clinical products. What wouldbe an average score on that do you
think for all people who take thattest with autism? Oh, with autism?

(15:37):
An average score with autism usually individualsclassified with now with Aspergers included as
part of autism. Yes, becauseusually it's designed for Aspergers, which is
just the mild cloud. Usually thescore is above thirty two on that test
to classify as significant enough autistic traitsto be consistent with the diagnosis, and

(16:03):
is the Asperger is more or lesssevere? A higher the number gets,
The higher the number, the moreautistic traits the person displays and they're thinking.
And he received the twenty eight inyour view based on that, Yeah,
when I totaled his scores, itwas a twenty eight when I evaluated
him. Yes, Can you indicatedthe eight percent of the people with autism

(16:26):
spectrum to score thirty two or more? Yes, that's right. What is
an empathy quotion? The empathy quotionis another questionnaire that goes into the adult
Asperger's assessment, And this is aquestionnaire the subject takes himself, and it
measures the amount of empathy type characteristicsor empathy traits that are in a person's

(16:49):
thing. Usually that's low for somebodywith autistics traits. And then of course
you have administered a relative to questionas right, Yes, sir, what
relative do you talk to? Ispoke with mister god John Scott, which
is the same person with doctor Frank'sspoke with. Correct, that's right?
Now? What is an adapting behaviorAssessment system test? Tells what that is?

(17:11):
The Adaptive Behavior Assessment Test is aquestionnaire that can be given to the
individual himself or more commonly given tofamily members or teachers or people who know
the person's functioning in various settings.And it's designed to measure their general adaptive
function skills in home life, vocationallife, academic settings, wherever, but

(17:34):
the ability to adapt and fund andone compositive that is called the general adapting
compositive correction. Yes, it's atotal summary score for the measure, Doctor
Denny, mister gode John score isseventy two on that is that correct?
I'm trying to find it. Iknow it was relatively low. Life's of

(17:59):
the look and verified that's correct.I can find that form I have seventy
two. Yes, seventy two,and that's third percentile. That's correct.
And you describe that as low itis low. Yes, it's in the
low borderhin range. On conceptually gotseventy Yes, that's the second percent tiple

(18:25):
correct, and that's also described byyou. Was low it is? Yes.
On the social you score to seventyor mister god John correct. Yes,
he attended eightion that's in the tenpercentage, and you describe that to
the low average, yes, belowaverage, low average we get in those
classifications. On practical you gave hima seventy one yes, third percent title,

(18:48):
correct, and you also describe thatas low it is low. Yes.
Now these percentiles, the lower thenumber, the lower the score.
Correct. Yes, So when yousay the second percentile, that would mean
ninety eight percent of the population woulddaringly above that. Correct, that's correct.
Mister Bobby John, in your view, has a long history with autism

(19:12):
spectrum disorder. Correct. Yes,His school records back that up, Yes
they do. Is social security recordsback that up? Yes they do,
and doctor Franks backs that up correct, yes, And you you concluded that
he has autism spector disorder level onecorrect. Requiring support. Correct. Yes,

(19:34):
all aspergers spectrum disorders require some levelof support without a company intellectual repairment.
Correct. And can you just askmy next question, you answer my
next question. All levels of autismrequires some support, exactly. That's the
nature of the diagnosis. If theydidn't require at least some level of support,

(19:56):
it doesn't warrant a diagnosis. Andthe level of support that they received
might be indignitive of their ability tobe successful. Oh, it absolutely is.
If the the more support they gave, the more severe the condition is,
which the more difficulties are going tohave in life and in you're examining
all these records, do you determinewhether or not mist or go to John

(20:18):
at a particularly strong support system asfar as his family and whatever, any
any kind of support. But let'sstart with the family. Did you find
any real support system there? Well, I mean it was a support system
he I mean, he wasn't livingon his own. He had a family
that were uh involved in his lifeat different periods of time when he was

(20:40):
younger. It was less strong thanit was when he was an adult.
But yeah, he had some supportthere, but not a significant I I
don't know how to answer, what'sa significant amount. He was in a
family, he was getting his needsand whether he you not to say he

(21:03):
was in an affluent family or afamily with a lot of resources. No,
but he wasn't a family. Healso diagnosed that he had a specific
learning disorder, yes, with impairmentreading reading, Yes, and math.
And and I won a specific learningdisorder with an impairment and math. Now,
neural cognity deficits are common finding withAsperger syndrome. Correct. Yeah,

(21:26):
And even with overall intellectual functioning,Uh, with these neural cognity deficits,
it still can be within an averagerun. Is that correct? I don't
understand your question. Okay, solet me leb to rephrase that. Uh.
You indicated that in your testing,mister go to John, he had

(21:47):
weak attention and impaired mental process andis that correct? Untal processing speed speed?
Yes? I probably? I say, Uh, you also found you
had bilateral cyclemotor impairment. Yes,and you thought like this contributed to these
poor mental processing speeds. Correct?Yes, Because the mental processing speed tasks
that we have him do are motorrelated. So then when I used just

(22:12):
a strictly motor speed task, thatdidn't require really thinking. His motor speed
was very slow, which tells methat that contributed to his slower mental processing
speed. Not to say that hedoesn't have slower mental processing speed. He
like he does, but the slowmotor alt and you thought like his cognitive
profile was consistently ask order syndrome.Yes it is, and that is now

(22:37):
just classified as all autism spective disorder. Correct. Yes, Asperger's syndrome is
now rolled into autism spectrum disorders.But it's the mildest form of and there's
no gap in your mind that hedoes have he is on the autism spectrum
disorder scale. Is that correct?Yes, I believe he has enough autism
characteristics that he meets the definition foran autism spectrum disorder of mind. Is

(23:02):
autism considered a disability? Yes itis. Is it considered a severe disability?
It can be, And again autismcan be so extreme that children know
when people are completely non functional,But then it can also be very mild.
Where there are people with autism spectrumdisorder that are actually very successful intervocations

(23:23):
and some even famous, but generallyspeaking, they have some level of disability
that they need a level of support. Inst the them. Is autism considered
it neural psychological disorder? Yes,I believe that would be a theory.
Is executive function impaired and autism oftentimeswould not necessarily always an executive function is

(23:47):
plain and reasoning. Executive function isa little broader, and it actually it's
like like you'd think an executive orthe executive doesn't do the actual nuts and
bolts of the business or whatever,but they're making sure that all those departments
are functioning at they're optimal, sothey organize everything else. And that's the
way it is in the brain.Executive functioning organizes and integrates the other cognitive

(24:12):
functions, so it includes abstract reasoning, judgment, problem solving, mental flexibility
both and then these can all bedivided into language based and non language based
type of skills also impult. Doesmister Goode John have a neurological disability?

(24:33):
Yes, I would say that autosinspector is a neurologic even when level one,
which is what you've diagnosed mister Godejongwith without substantial supports in place,
deficits and social communication cause noticeability pairments. That is, according to the States
Exhibit A five, if you showedyou yesterday? Is that correct? That's

(24:55):
at the DSM now the states ofgifferent one any five, the table with
the severity levels of prosecutity years.Yes, that came out of a diagnostic
and statistical manual. But I haveto see it to verify the way you
read it is the correct life We'vehad to shoudn't my copy states a bit
of one? Five? You know? I'm judgment of personal ways, cool
life points? Where you were youimprovement? What repeated? Discard? My

(25:21):
question was even with level one,without substantial supports in place, deficits and
social communication can't cause noticeable impairments.Okay, that's incorrect. You add an
extra word. That's I didn't needto add the word. Can't let me
refrase? No, that's not theword you added. What did I add?
You added substantial? It doesn't saysubstantial. It says without supports in
place deficits, and so let merephrase it. Then be without supports in

(25:47):
place, deficits and social communication causednoticeable impairments. That's correct. Yes,
and with even with level one,a person who is able to speak in
full sentences and engages in communication.But who's two you would throw conversation with
others, sails and the attempts tomake friends are odd and typically unsuccessful.
Did I read that correctly? Ibelieve so. It was fast? But

(26:08):
yes, right, mister Gode Johnnyget paid the bills? Did he according
to the information you had? Hetold me that he did pay uh his
cell phone bill? Did you everhave a bank account? He told me
that he did have a bank account. He had one that was in his
name, but then there was analso another bank account that was in his

(26:30):
in his mother's name. That's whathe told me. I I didn't verify
that. Did he ever live independently? No? Did he need reminders to
shower and groom? I believe thatthat was not uncommon for him to neither
be reminded to clean up a littlebit? M just did That's all the

(26:52):
questions I had. This book wastelling to his through You think it was
just a few questions your own hesAF You're getting uh with the in the
office and spectrums where you would endthese three categories of severian three levels of
severe correct based on the DSM DiagnosticManual. That's correct, and so with
only those three available you placed todefend it and level one, right,

(27:17):
that's correct. The highest functioning levelherebe is the highest functioning level within the
folks that would be within level one. How would you describe him if we
were to take just that group.I would say that the information I have
and he's interaction with me and therecords suggests he's at the higher functioning edge
of that. And some of hisstories regarding autism are actually higher than or

(27:41):
are better than what would be inthis categorization. So he's really just barely
in the diet who mister Caery mentionedthe executive function testing that he did with
the defendant. How did the defendscore and those executive function tests? If
I may look, I don't wantto speak incorrectly. His overall executive function

(28:14):
summary score, which is again asummary of all of the little tests to
go in that area, was astandard score of ninety seven on the same
scale we talked about it earlier,which is a percent hour ranking of fourty
two. It's in the average range. Now, that module of the battery
includes a different tests. One itwas amazes and being able to work your

(28:38):
way through commuses with a pen pencil, which he scored in the average range.
The other one was judgment, whichwe talked about yesterday, which he
scored in the above average range.And that's a verbal judgment problem solving.
I read some of that two categorieswhich would be verbal ansm to some extent

(29:03):
nonverbal concept formation to be able topull concepts out of the information. You
see, it's very abstract. Hisscore was in the average range on that.
Then on a word generation this iswhere you have to come up with
as many words as you can thinkof that begin with a certain letter,

(29:25):
or in this instance, with thistest, you have to put together as
many words you can think of usinga list of letters that are given to
you. Okay, So it's aspeatinal processing task that is focused on generating
language, generating words, and heperformed in the moderately impaired range on that

(29:45):
at the first percentile. So thatwas a significant deficit for him in the
language area. But then in hisperseveration, the tendency to inappropriately do the
same thing again and again and again, to to not stop yourself from doing
that, he had no problem withthat whatsoever. I fell in the average

(30:07):
overall. And how would you describethe thing that's executive functions with regard to
abstract reasoning, problem solving, andjudture regarding after reasoning, problem solving and
judgment. They're perfectly normal, ifnot above average, And sometimes do that
be forstrue? He just got unstories like you indicated that I think you

(30:36):
said. I got to write thathe's barely an autism. Is that what
I'm interacting to say? Based uponmy evaluation with him and my interactions with
him and the stores, I believehe falls within the classification of axton spective
disorder. But he's at the highestlevel of that or condition. But he

(30:57):
said, and when is he firstdiagnosed with optism? He was diagnosed initially
with achism when was very young,when he had a decrease of language function
and a lower IQ as well oras cognitive functioning in general. And he
was diagnosed with just the other diagnosisof autism, not ASPERBS, but autism.

(31:21):
But then as he matured, hecaught up in the language areas and
the overall cognitive areas to such adegree that the diagnosis changed to ASPERBUS.
The only reason it's autism now againis because in twenty thirteen the diagnostic man
had changed enrolled ASPERGUS and come backinto a general classification of autism spectrum.

(31:42):
Was there ever a time when hewas not diagnosed with autism after the first
diagnosis? No, Now in yourreport you say about this situation, Neural
cognitive deficits are common finding with aspertusin or even when overall intellectual actions within
the average range. Yes, that'struth. Yes, sir, that's okay,

(32:05):
Jack, Thank you doctor, haveany of the excuse Yes, dear
doctors, thank you're a thank youfolks. We have some students in the
corporate today. I want to remindyou that the rules apply to everyone.
That you won't be able to useyour cell phones while you're in the corporate
Okay, al right, So Ijust gotta say you have any additional bler

(32:29):
rnacanscots are abel events, light asparrys, and you have any service bunk.
Right, ladies and gentlemen, we'vereached the point of the file where
all of the evidence has been presented. Both parties are wrestled. I have
to work with the U State andwith the defense in crafting so jury instructions

(32:52):
for you. If I could seethe parties over here in the quay,
that's what we're going to do,is give you an early recess and come
back at twelve thirty. I'm sorryyou got to come in here for a
half hour and then be sent awayfor a three hours and then at least

(33:14):
the weather's nice. So I wannaagain remind you of d and child with
the first recess of report. Untilyou retire to consider your verding. You
must not discuss this case among yourselvesor others, or permit anyone to discuss
it in your hearing. You shouldnot form or express any opinion about the

(33:35):
king to do, not do anyresearch or investigation on your own about any
matter regarding this case where you wantto involved with the tron. Do you
not communicate with others tell about thecase by any means? Do you not
read, you or listen between anynewspaper, radio, electronics, communication from
the internet orch on. I'll sortof give you an idea of how the

(34:00):
day we'll proceed betting a cul vertyyou'll come up. Then I'll be to
you a series of jury in destructionsthat will be the law that you will
following the case. And then theparties have the opportunity to make their cloak,
and then you will be left todeliberate, and then we'll be that
back in the jury deliberation room.Okay, I don't go late on deliberation,

(34:22):
and I'll leave it, release youand deliberate. I'll be how they
okay. So let's see if asa kind I'll rive. Yes, all
right, you recess until twelve fifteen, and then Stime will have a formal

(34:45):
jury companies. And if I beeven if the party's journeys five and we'll
go through this and portant. Somister gojam and we'll have you back here
about your ho