Game On Rewind: Max Chadwick of PFF joins the show! 2025-6-5

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Not to be overshadowed as Max Chadwick who joined us
today on a whim and we appreciate it. Man. We
broke the emergency glass and we got one of the
best in the business. How are you, by the way,
how are things through you?

Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm doing good?

Speaker 1 (00:12):
How you guys doing excellent? It couldn't be better. We're
past May, which means we're in June and we can
see the season within our sites now. And with that,
we figured at some point Aaron Rodgers would be a
Pittsburgh Steeler. We haven't spoken with you in months, so
let's kind of do a reset. Where are you at
with the Steelers as a whole and with the Rogers
component along with Arthur Smith and company.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, it just seems like the Steels are gonna be
where they always were, which is basically, you know, maybe
good enough to just make it sneak into the playoffs,
but not good enough to actually compete for a Super Bowl.
If they had Bason Rudolph as the quarterback all year,
maybe they could reset and be one of the worst
teams in the NFL and then get a top draft
pick and completely reset without a brand new, young franchise quarterback,

(00:55):
but now with Rogers, it kind of seems like the
same old Steelers are now kind of like what they
were last year with Russell Wilson. It might be a
slight improvement off what they had in Russell Wilson, but
maybe not that much. So I think it's extremely similar
to what they had last year.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
I think for fans that get excited about it, it's
more of just the confirmation that there's something that got
done there with Rogers, they can now breathe and move on,
not necessarily celebrate. It's more of a okay, fine, this
portion of what's going to be a several act of
drama is over. Now we'll see what's ahead for Rogers.
And I agree with you, Max, Max Chadwick Pro Football Focus.

(01:30):
There's not much of a difference, you know, metrics wise,
but between the two guys last year, and look at
what Wilson was able to do. Rudolph obviously was the
guy that would have led him to Tank City and
they could have gotten that fifth he does. He's looking
very much like a magnum p I, but unfortunate he's
gonna be holding a clipboard for a little bit. So

(01:51):
Rogers in that offense obviously it gives them at least
some degree of competency. But I agree with you, these
better days are probably behind him. With the Achilles, he
doesn't move as well out of the pocket. He's not
escaping the kind of pressure he used to. And the
Arthur Smith component. It's gonna be interesting because Rogers likes
to own the line of scrimmage. He's his own coach
at times, and Artie is not. Hardy's not a big

(02:11):
fan of handing over control. How's that dynamic gonna play?
Does Tomlin need to get in it? Have they already
had that discussion?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting. You know, Aaron Rodgers obviously
steamrolled everybody in that Jets organization when he went over there,
and I think it's ultimately why it really didn't work
out well at all is because he just had way
too much control over that entire organization, whether it be
over the general manager, over the coaching staff, everyone. It
was Aaron Aaron Rodgers show in New York. I have

(02:39):
more faith than Mike Tomlin to not get steamrolls. You know,
Mike Tom's a very well respected coach, a Super Bowl
champion coach, and I don't think he'll ever let anyone
steamroll him, right, So I think he's gonna come in
there and be like, well, Sen, you're a quarterback, you're
nothing else, right, Yes, exactly what. We're paying you to
be the quarterback for one years a one year contracts,
not a multi year thing like what the best thing
could be a one year deal. So I think I

(03:01):
think Rogers is going there and gonna play football next year.
I don't think Mike Tomins can let him have any
really control over anything else, or at least you shouldn't
let him have any control mate. Now, of course, Arthur
Spith's gonna, you know, consult Rogers, considering he's one of
the greatest quarterbacks of all time and say, hey, what
are you comfortable with? What are some plays that you
like if we can incorporate for you. There's something gonna
be some collaboration there. But I would be really surprised

(03:22):
if Aaron Rodgers had as much of a vice script
over the Steelers as he did over the Jets.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Trey Faco's got a question, but I'll add this. I
would give him three gold jackets if he can plow
through and destroy the Steelers, the most stable organization ever,
that would be as impressive as taken it can be
if he could just finally put the Rooneyes in the
ground for all and ruin what's been the most stable
organization for decades. If anybody could do it, it's mister Rogers. Trey,

(03:49):
you have a question for Max.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah, Max, obviously this is a bridge year that is
obviously in the contract. To your point, it does feel
like it's going to be the same old Steelers. It
feels like they're probably going to be picking around nineteen
twenty twenty one right now, as you see this roster
in the way that it's constructed, what do the Steelers
need to do to prepare for that future quarterback that

(04:11):
it looks like they're going to get next year in
next year's draft.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I think they're doing a nice job building up
the offensive line, right. They spent the last two first
round picks or before, I should say this year on
for on tackles. Right, So they got younger on the
offensive wind of a great young center and Zach Frazier
in an awesome rookie year last year. So I love
that the receiving corp is still severely lacking right now.
I think guess the one thing. Yes, they did trade
for DK Metcalf, but they also traded away George Pickens,

(04:39):
So it's kind of almost like a neutral move right
there for Pittsburgh. And the weapons outside of Metcalf are
uninspiring to say the least right now, so they got
to keep building up their receiving corps. The defense is
really good. The d line's maybe the best in the
NFL right now. He's got Derek Carmon in the first round. Two,
the tackle from Oregon. I think the defense overall because

(05:00):
really good. Still building up a secondary a little bit,
but and he needs Tom up a corner. But I
think the really big thing is, yeah, you look the
old line. Still build up on that old line a
little bit. Is a very young and talented old line.
I really want them to attack the receiving corps even
more and get more wide receivers in there outside of
DK Metcalf.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Max, you're now Rooney, You're now the GM of the Steelers.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
You're going into next year's draft.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
You're picking the future franchise quarterback for this organization is
Arthur Smith. The type of offensive coordinator that you want
to try and build around a young quarterback or do
you want to maybe bring somebody else in that's I
don't know, a little bit more dynamic, maybe a little
bit more progressive. When it comes to the offense. Is

(05:43):
Arthur Smith the offensive coordinator of the future. I know
it's a one year sample size, but I look at
last year and I'm like, it's kind of a step
up for Matt Canada. But I don't know exactly how
great this offense is. Granted, who if they had thrown
the ball? Who have they had running the ball?

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, I think that's a good question, you know. I
think it's all depending on how it looks next year.
You know, if he makes it work with Aaron Rodgers
and the offense is above average next year, I say, yeah,
you know, I'll give him another shot going into twenty
twenty six. But if if it's still like a below
average offense or anything like that, I probably say, you
know what, it's probably time to move on and get
a new OC in there. So I don't know how

(06:18):
much longer Mike tom It's gonna be the coach. I'm
not well, miamimans, I'm not calong for him to be fired.
And because I think he's a great coach, But it
is very hard to win with a defensive head coach
in the NFL nowadays because you know, you need a
great offensive mind in there. And if you're if you
have a defensive minded head coach, you have a great
offensive coordinator. That offensive cordator is gonna be scooped up
by a head for a head coaching job very very

(06:39):
soon after that, right, So it's very very difficult to
have that happen. So it's kind of a wait and
see mode right now. You know, I'm not I'm not
saying Art Smith should or not should not be fired
right now. But if he has a bad year next year,
yeah they tried to should move on. But if he's
pretty good next year with Aaron Rodgers, then maybe give
him another shot.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Max Chadwick PFF dot com joining us on literally two
minutes notice, which is why he's the goat, among other reasons. Max,
you can find his work at PFF dot com. Will
promote everything in a minute, quick whip round around the league.
A couple teams and storylines. I'm fascinated by the Giants
quarterback room could have its own Hard Knocks series, And
you know Dart Wilson Winston might be trade bait. Who

(07:18):
knows at that point. Do you have sort of an
idea in your mind? Who you envision being the starter
day one? Is it is? It? Is it Russ and
then maybe turn it over to Jackson mid season? Is
it Russ all year? Or does Jackson get the nod
from day one?

Speaker 2 (07:32):
No, I think it's gonna be Russell Wilson's team. I think,
you know, Brian Dave Beli even came out and said that, hey,
you're Russell Wilson is the starter. Jackson Dart is not
competing to be the starter at least right now. I'm
not closing off the idea of hey, if Russ struggles
out there at Jackson Dark could go in there. But
I don't. I don't even know if Jackson Darth is
the second string quarterback right now. Right I think Jamis
Winston might even have that job over him too, so

(07:54):
I would. I think Russell Wilson is pretty much guaranteed
to be the week one starter, but it all depends
on how the season goes before you know whether or
not they try to turn in Jackson Darvis. You gotta remember,
I mean both Brian Dabel and Joe Shane. They're both
on the hot seat right now, and the owner even
came out and said they're both in the hot seed
right now. So if they're struggling with Russell Wilson, they're

(08:15):
gonna like move on from him pretty quickly and try
to put Jackson Dart out there. That way they could
at least show ownership. Hey, here's what the future looks like.
You know, let me work with this guy a little
bit more and we'll see what we can do in
twenty twenty six. If you start Russell Wilson all year
and you go five and twelve, you're gonna get fired,
right there's no really future that you showed that year.
So if they're doing well with Russell Wilson, they'll keep him.

(08:37):
But if they start losing a lot of games, I
think Jackson Dart would be started there pretty quickly. Just
so you know, Brian Dable and Joe Shane can save
the jobs.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Honestly, Max, it's way too early to predict a Super
Bowl unless you're a sports talk host in June and
you have to just mess around. And that's what we
do on this show. My early like shocking hot take
super Bowl, which is what we do every year. Would
be Rams Broncos. And here's why. And I saw your
rankings you put out last week. You've got the Rams,

(09:04):
you and the company there have them at six, I
believe right now. And then you've got Denver and nine.
And the defense. What they've done at corner is unbelievable.
They got the pass rush, you got the two strong
corners there, Bo had a great year at quarterback. And
the Rams. I want to talk more about them with you.
That's a team that I just see lurking right now.
With all that talent in the front seven. You've got

(09:24):
obviously two very talented receivers on the outside. Offensive lines
coming together. Stafford v State's healthy McVeigh can always win.
It wouldn't surprise me a bit because they almost beat Philly.
Could you see one of those two teams maybe working
into at least the championship game?

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Definitely? I think it was the two you know, sleepers
out like a lot right there. I think Los Angeles,
like you just mentioned, I mean Los Angeles, they almost
beat Philadelphia in the divisional round, and if they won
that game, they could all of a sudden, they could
beat the Commanders in the conference title game. If they
do that. Listen, the Rams had the front seven like
the Eagles that could dominate Kansas City. Like, I know,
it's kind of stretches things considering they lost the divisional round,

(10:03):
but the Rams weren't that far away from winning a
Super Bowl last year. You really look at it, right,
So I don't hate that call out at all. And
then yeah, Denver, you know, one of the best defenses
in the NFL right now. And then you have, you know,
a quarterback in b Nicks who is very solid in
his rookie year, a really good offensive line in Denver
as well. I don't love the receiving corps in Denver,

(10:24):
but it's not the worst in the NFL either. And
then Rje Harvey is a new running back there. I
like to lock him out of UCF. So yeah, I
think Denver, you know they're gonna make the Super Bowls,
can be off the defense. But I think it's a
two good calls right there for sure.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Max.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
One final question for me, being a yinser, I have
a little bit of a vested interest in this.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
I had a hot take kind of similar.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
We've been doing this whole hot take thing, and my
hot take was I looked at Cleveland, the Cleveland Browns,
I don't think it's out of the question for Shador
Sanders to be the starter coming into this season day one.
Just looking at that quarterback room.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
On paper, I know there's Joe Flacco.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
He's good for a couple of games off the bench,
but as we've seen, that's about it. I don't know
that he's true starter carry you through the season. Material.
Uh what are your thoughts in the Cleveland quarterback room?

Speaker 2 (11:11):
H yeah, I would agree with you. I think Sanders
is pretty in my opinion, at least pretty easily the
best of those four right there, whether it be Joe Flacco,
whether it be Kenny Pickett or Dylan Gabriel. I don't
know if we'll start week one only because they took
him in the fifth round of the draft to drafted
the guy, and Dylan Gabriel over him too. So I
think just Kevin Stefancy is just gonna it's gonna be

(11:32):
really hard.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Wait, Max Matt, you're not following the o t A
stat leaderboards right by the way. Those are vital Those
are vital metrics.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Now, come on, I've seen a lot of those stats.
I just saw one even yesterday, I said, should is
the only one who didn't take any first team reps
either for.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Prime. Coach Prime is gonna call you that, I don't careful.
Go ahead, Max, Sorry, you're.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Guessed as good as mine. So what the heck the
Brown is gonna do next year at quarterbacks? I think
no matter who starts at quarterback, it's gonna be it
could be a historically bad offense in the NFL next year.
I just look at that offense top to bottom, and
it's it's a disaster everywhere. Man, you got the worst
seeding corps football, maybe the worst offensive line in football.
And then obviously you have no idea what you have

(12:20):
do what you're doing a quarterback right now? Running back?
Man's that's really all you're hanging your hat on right now.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
S Garrett in Japan and no leadership. Everything we talked
about is Cleveland. They're five seasons. If you're a Cleveland
fan or if you're a Cleveland you know, a member
of the media, everything that was talked about, of course
isn't happening. We expect Miles to step with media leader.
He goes to Japan, everybody freaks out. It means nothing
but it's so wonderful because it's Cleveland and it always

(12:47):
keeps us entertained. And now they have seven quarterbacks. We're
gonna play them all. Uh, we will see what happens.
We'll touch on the Panthers next time around, because I
think it's too early to tell. That division is always crazy.
Just one more thing though, this Saints. The Derek Carr situation.
That is fascinating in a way because the guy wasn't hurt,

(13:07):
but then he was and he didn't have the surgery.
Was he just ready to quit? What's the story with Carr?
And when are they going to finally as a wholesale
you know, effort tear it down and build it right
or does the salary cap just not batter anymore?

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah? I think no, it does matter. I think you're
seeing you're seeing the effects of it right now. I
think I think this is when they're gonna start tanking
a little bit. I think this is I think the
Saints are and the Browns are, you know, two of
the worst teams in football right now. They're probably fighting
for that number one overall pay it's really them and
the Browns that have no idea what to doing that
quarterback right now, if you want to throw the Colts

(13:45):
in that mix to at least the Colts, you know,
are hoping Richardson could be the guy. And then they
have Daniel Jose's backup. The Saints right now are throwing
out Tyler Shuck. Wow. I didn't love coming out of Loutsville.
I won't lie to you guys. And he's gonna start
day one as a rookie. I just don't love that
at all for him. So, yeah, they're gonna be pretty
bad next year. And I would expect New Orleans to
have a top five pick in the draft. And honestly,

(14:06):
I mean you look at the draft next year. You
got a couple of quarterbacks there that have a lot
of ties to that organization. You got arch Manning, who
might or might not declare for the draft. Obviously, his grandpa,
Archie Manning, is the second greatest quarterback in Saints' history,
only by Drew Brees. And then you have Garrett nust Meyer,
the LSU quarterback who not only is playing in Louisiana

(14:27):
or the state of New Orleans, but also his dad,
Doug nust Meyer, is the offensive coordinator for the New
Orleans Saints. Right now as well. So it's gonna be
really interesting to see what New Orleans does next year.
I don't think Tyler Schuck is gonna be the franchise
quarterback for them unless he has a great year next year.
You could be looking at a New Orleans taking a
top five pick at a quarterback next year too.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, Panthers fans right now are just saying, hey, be
just good enough to be bad, and just be just
bad enough to not be that bad. That's a frightening thought.
Arch or Nusts down there, You're right, his dad's on staff,
and we think Arch is going to be a superstar.
We just hope, as Panthers guys, it's somewhere else. We
will see how that works out. Max Chadwick, one of
the great analysts in the business, covers the college football

(15:08):
scene for PFF and does a great job with the
draft and covering the NFL as well. What are you
up to these days? And where can we find the work?
We all know where to find it. Let's just uh,
let's actively promote it.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
No, I appreciate that. Yeah, I host the PFF College
Football Show. We host that twice a week right now.
Kind of going over a bunch of rankings where we
just finished ranking every position in college football, the top
ten players at every position.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
You were. You were very good at Clemson, by the
way I saw your Clemson rankings. My goodness, that front behind.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Listen. I'm not trying to my own horror, but I've
picked it back to back national champions in Ohio State
and Michigan preseason, so I got both of them, right,
I am leaning towards Clempston right.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Oh my god, Oh my god. Oh, somebody pull the
fire alarm again. The big y'all.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah they are. They are loaded next year. But yeah,
talking a lot of Clemson football. And we're actually going
to preview every single team in college and in the
power for on our channel very soon. So I'm very
excited to do all that very very soon.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
You're the best, Max. Thanks for making time, man, Thank you,
appreciate you guys,