Baseball Hall of Famer John Smoltz Remembers His Career

He’s the only pitcher in Major League history to record both 200 wins and 150 saves. He’s won a World Series Championship, a Cy Young Award and a Roberto Clemente Award. He’s FOX’s lead baseball analyst and a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame. And today, he’s guest number 1 of the Games People Play podcast.

Join us in welcoming the great John Smoltz to the program as he and Bernie discuss John’s early life as a Detroit Tigers fan in Warren, MI, his 2-sport, all-state career at Waverly High School in Lansing and his remarkable 22-years in the Big Leagues.

You’ll hear how his collective family’s heart broke the day their hometown Tigers traded him to Atlanta and how his steady improvement led to him being the only Braves player present for all of their MLB record 14 consecutive division titles from 1991-2005.

Plus: pitching with, and against, Glavine and Maddux; the transition from starter to closer and back again; his legendary Game 7 World Series showdown against boyhood idol Jack Morris, and more!

Track: "Im Coming Back Again"
Music provided by https://slip.stream
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Episode Transcript

(00:15):
Now welcome everyone to our latest editionof The Games People Play with Bernie Corbett.
As I say, every week,nothing's changed. I remain Bernie Corbett
and very pleased to be back witheveryone here today. And as I say,
it seems like every week, we'revery pleased to have a guest that
joining us today who's going to takeus to Cooperstown. And the man that

(00:38):
we'll be talking to has a numberof unique distinctions in his career. I
guess you can probably start with thefact that he is the only member of
the Baseball Hall of Fame with morethan two hundred wins as a starting pitcher
and more than one hundred and fiftysaves as a relief pitcher, a testament
to his ability and his versatility,among a number of other distinctions which will

(01:00):
I'm sure get into and touch on. Today we have with us Baseball hof
twenty fifteen mister John Smoltz. John, welcome to the show. Great to
have you join us today. Well, my pleasure, thanks for having me.
Well, John, we always goback to the beginning and the roots
of our guests, and your rootsgo back to the town of Warren,

(01:23):
Michigan outside of Detroit and very strongties, if you will, literally and
figuratively to that ballpark at Woodward andTrumbull with the Detroit Tigers. Employment for
a couple of generations of Smoltz atTiger Stadium no less. Yeah, this
was you know, growing up andjust outside of Detroit. My grandfather worked

(01:46):
at Tiger Stadium forever on the groundcrew, in the press room, had
a couple uncles who worked there,whether it be in the scoreboard. And
you know, I grew up abig time Tigers fan and was able to
go to many many games at oldTiger Stadium. So you know, that's
where my love for baseball started.I grew up in a musician's family,
so it wasn't sports. It wasbasically music, and out of the blue,

(02:09):
I developed this love for baseball onsports and wanted to play everything I
could get my hands on. Somy parents luckily allowed me to do that
at the age of about seven.But up until that point I was heavily
tied down to music lessons, playingthe accordion, practicing every day. But
when I could turn on the TVand watch as many sports as I could

(02:30):
muster. We had Denny McLain on, so I guess we could have maybe
formed a band of the environs ofDetroit. We could have well Denny on
organ smoltzn accordion. Thank you verymuch, ladies and gentlemen. But a
matter of fact, read a storythat your dad was playing the accordion and
serenading after the nineteen eighty four WorldSeries celebration for that absolutely phenomenal Tiger team

(02:55):
that year, dominant team. Yeah, he actually did it in sixty eight.
So when they won it in theWorld Series and sixty eight, he
took me to the eighty four WorldSeries and so the sixty eight party.
And my dad had played the accordionfor over fifty years and in a band,
so I followed everywhere he went,whether it was weddings, polkas you
name it. We had the wholecar with the eight track tape and listened

(03:19):
to all kinds of polka music.And of course, for the generation of
people that remember Lawrence Welk, LawrenceWelk was the TV show that we were
forced to watch every day when hewas a wonderful wonderful That's all I got
to say about that chat. Probablybring it back some bad memories that we
were skied with, but it justgreat. As a matter of fact,
I did have that note going allthe way back to playing the accordion back

(03:42):
in the sixty eight Tigers, andyou had a little bit of a ritual
I think that took called nineteen eightyfour, you brought a little sod back
home to your backyard from the fieldat Tiger Stadium. Yeah. For whatever
reason, once they won it,right, we're there at the game,
and people went on the field andstarted tearing up the turn and pulling up
the infield. I don't know whythey thought that was something cool, but

(04:03):
I started throwing it into the stands, and so my brother and I we
went over and got two nice twoyard plots of turf you know that was
in the infield, and we broughtit home. We planted it. We
had a tiger statue that oversaw it. It was kind of the remnants of
the World Series that we were partof. Fortunately, and then that off

(04:25):
season after later after I got draftedand then later after I got traded,
I came home that off season andwent in the backyard found out the grass
had been ripped up and the tigerstatue had been either destroyed or taken away.
So that was not a great dayin the life of the Smolds family.
When the trade from the Tigers tothe Alanta Braves crushed everybody's world at

(04:46):
that time, so to speak,that was the worst moment and the toughest
moment of my life that ended upbecoming the greatest moment of my life.
I suspect vandalism there as a matterof the probably was some men be perpetrated
by a family member. That's youknow, statue limitations is all of us,
So we'll let it go. Andalso we'd be remiss if we didn't

(05:08):
mention connection through your mom to baseballrather prominent in maybe the most prominent in
Tiger history. Your grandmother was aGerringer. Yea Charlie Gerringer was was definitely.
I got a chance to meet him. I got a chance to play
golf of them in his eighties.And that's really when you think about the
the family that I came from.My mom's sides Italian, my dad German,

(05:32):
Czechoslovakian. But that's the side wherethere was some baseball connection. And
I think the fact that he playedfor the Tigers and he was in the
Hall of Fame was something that waspretty cool that I never dreamt I would
end up joining them Monday. Indeed, and by the way, for people
that don't know Charlie Gerringer, inhis history Sports Illustrated, they voted the

(05:57):
greatest athletes of the century in Michigan. Joe Lewis was number one, Magic
Johnson was number two, and Charliewas number three. So I rest my
case. There. You know you'llwitness Johnny Cochran. There you go,
quite prominent nineteen year tiger and inHall of Famer. I know you've referenced
the fact that growing up you wereI guess you were on the small side.

(06:19):
You've talked about you were the smallestkid on every team that you playing
on up until that junior high soyou're always kind of battling that to John.
Growing up I was I had aunique gift of throwing a baseball,
but and I could get around andplay all the different sports. But I,
for whatever reason, had a lategrowth spurt, which my dad had.
And I'm the tallest in my entireextended family, going all the way

(06:42):
back as far as you can go. I grew seven inches about basically my
junior year. I had size twelvefeet I was five foot nothing, and
I knew something had happened. Ihad to catch up or I was going
to be just blopping around right.So I definitely hit a growth spurg that
that depth that changed a little bitof what I how basketball was played,

(07:04):
how baseball was played, and thenthe coordination. I was able to pick
that back up. I had someknee problems because of the growth spurts.
You can imagine growing so fast,but all of that really helped my confidence.
But but I could play no matterwhat size I was. It's just
people see me at six' threewhatever, two hundred and thirty pounds and

(07:26):
realize that maybe thought I was thatway my whole I really wasn't. And
I had to overcome a lot ofthings that that most people, you know,
wouldn't have assumed. I had toovercome when I was When I was
little at Waverley High School in Lansing, Michigan, you were a two sport
all state performed both the baseball andbasketball. How prominent the basketball figure.

(07:48):
I know that you had offers toplay basketball. I believe basketball scholarship.
Jud Heath Cote at the time thecoach of Michigan. Hey, how serious
was that for you, John Basketballat the time, Well, basketball is
my first love, and that's theone I enjoyed playing the most. But
baseball was the one that was goingto take me fartheres. So I loved
playing basketball and I definitely wanted toplay. I was going to play in

(08:09):
Michigan State, both basketball and baseball. I loved football. It was a
quarterback. I could throw it forever, but my dad made the wide decision.
Being small, slender, I wouldhave got crushed as a quarterback.
So I never really progressed after seventhgrade. So basketball became my first love
and I played it till I wasfifty when I retired. I played about
ten nine years after retiring. Butnow I've given that up at fifty three,

(08:33):
and I think that sport allowed meto have some similarities that I used
in baseball, and I just enjoyedcompeting against some of the greats. My
senior year, I played in theAll State All Star Game against seven would
be an NBA players, you know, bj Armstrong, Lois Vaut, Glenn

(08:54):
Rice. There was so many talentedMichigan players that I realized that baseball would
my future. Indeed wise decision,as it turned out as a result of
that baseball draft, and of courseyou had a distinction which I guess lasted
for only one year because then MikePiazza came along. Yeah, blew me

(09:16):
out of the water on that one, by the way, right, lowest
drafted player to go to the Hallof Fame. But of course you're gonna
put a little asterisk next to thatbecause of the situation with basketball. I
think that probably scared a lot ofpeople off in baseball about this guy.
You know, we're going to wastea high pick on him, maybe a
basketball guy, he's a scholarship guy. I think the biggest thing along with

(09:37):
that was the fact that I signedso early to go to college. I
wanted to get that part over withand then college, you know, signability
was I had a full ride atMichigan State, and so the signing bonus
was going to have to be alittle bit higher. And I'm sure that
had something to do with it,but it ultimately worked in a unique way.
Being drafted twenty second round, Iwas able to go play baseball in

(09:58):
the summer. I ended up gettingfirst round money because I held out to
the end, to the literal end. Monday morning, would have been my
first day at Michigan State. Sundaynight, I signed with the Tigers,
So my life drastically changed in abouta two week period. It was back
and forth negotiating with my hometown team. My dad did all in negotiating,
and it was it was tough,man. You're talking about a high school

(10:20):
kid whose life was going to changein a matter of twelve hours. And
ultimately I got it done and signedwith the Tigers twenty second round, five
hundred and seventy fourth and the aforementionedMike Pionce sixty second round one thy three
hundred and ninety. But you heldthat for a year anyway, and held
it properly as the lowest. Iwent and looked up. I don't know

(10:41):
if you've ever looked this up,but I took the liberty to do it
because I've led a very strange andsheltered life. Shohn, to look up
the guy that was drafted ahead ofyou, Neber did any research on him?
I haven't no Tim McKinley catcher SoutheasternIllinois College, and he played a
total of one hundred and forty sevenminor league games. He got as fire

(11:01):
as double A in Harrisburg and hewas a one seventy lifetime hitter. So
it's not an exact science. No, no, it's not. It's getting
more of an exact science lately becauseof the way that some of these guys
are groomed to play the game.So it's a little bit more of a
there's less misses today than there wereback then, indeed by the Toronto Bluejays,

(11:24):
so that's when they might want tohave back once again, hometown team.
Makings of a dream come true.And you started off in the Class
A to Lakeland and then Class DoubleA to Glenn Falls, New York.
What about your first impressions of makingthat transition. You know, obviously baseball
guys go either college to the pros, they're a little more mature, or

(11:48):
in your case, you're coming righta pitcher coming right from high school to
the pros. What about that adjustmentfor you? Yeah, Well mine was
super unique because I signed so late. I missed rookie ball, I missed
instructure, I missed everything. SoI will write with the big club for
the last month and a half.So here I am signed and I'm working
out with the Tigers and the guysthat are my heroes. It was so
unbelievable. My first trip road trip, it was to New York and Boston.

(12:11):
I was a fish out of water. I was following the bullpen catcher
around. I had no idea whatlife was going to be like. But
I got a glimpse of the bigleague life at an early age, and
some guys that were instrumental and reallyhelping me become or know what it's like
to be a big leaguer. AlanTrammell was first class, and so I
made these adjustments. After that seasonwas over, I went to instructionally,

(12:37):
worked out with the club and theprospects went to A ball had started off
really fine and I think four andohero or something like that, and then
I got hurt and ended up sevenand eight. Then I went to instructionally
again. When we made the doubleA team had a miserable, miserable first
half I think five and eleven whenI got traded, and the team wasn't

(12:58):
very good. The Detroit sperience wasn'tas great as I was hoping for.
They did not spend money in thecoaching staff or in the farm system.
They basically had this the nineteen twentyseven Yankees didn't need it. We didn't
need it. And when I gottraded to the Atlanta Braves, they had
an overkill of coaches and they hadall kinds of people to help give you
perspective. In Single A and DoubleA, we didn't have a pitching coach.

(13:22):
We had a roving pitching coach.Now we had one manager, no
other coach, and a rover wouldcome and see me every once in a
while. But I was lost.And in Atlanta they had a pitching coach
at every level instruction league. Theyhad a bunch of coaches that really took
me by the you know, bythe hand, and helped develop me to
the next journey in my life,which ended up being the greatest journey ever.

(13:46):
And I never could have predicted that. After being traded at five and
eleven or whatever, my record wasfour and ten five something era, I'm
thinking, well, they don't wantme. So I forgot that the team
that was trading for me actually wantedme, and that was a positive.

(14:07):
Getting traded from Double A, Ihad to go immediately to Triple A,
so I was way out of myleague there, got beat up by the
Tidewater Metz and you know, struggledthere, but then after that another instructional
league and another level of improvement.I was well on my way to get
to the big League, to myultimate goal, and that was the trade.

(14:28):
As it will be. You're rememberedin infamy for the Tigers and in
fame, in great Fame and Hallof Fame for the Atlanta Braves. Bobby
Cox at the time was the generalmanager. He made the deal. And
you know, once again it's alwayswhen there's prospects and contenders. You know,
the Tigers won a three way race, which I remember for the for
the Al East at the time,they needed veteran pitching help. Thus they

(14:48):
went after Doyle Alexander. But thenthere's always on the other side who you
give up and who you hang onto. The Tigers decided to hang on
to Steve Cercy, and I aquote from the Brave scout at the time,
John Hagman, that says that saidto Bobby Kotch, there's no way
they're going to trade this guy Smoltz. He's going to be an All Star,
he's going to be a twenty gamewinner, he's gonna win a syg

(15:09):
Young. The only thing he leftout was Cooperstown. He would have been
four for four. But the factthat they put you in the trade was
just one of those twists of fate. John, It really was. You
know. The scouty signed me,begged Bill Joy at the time not to
trade me. There was some differencesthat Bill and my dad. There's some
miscommunications early on in our negotiations whenI signed that had believe it or not

(15:33):
something to do with the trade becausethere was some whatever give him, give
him smolts, you know, Andit's amazing. I know that probably goes
on more than people know behind thescenes, when there's maybe a difference or
a personality or whatever. I wasjust in the middle of something that fortunately
for me, I got traded toa team that needed pitching. I would

(15:54):
not have been in the big leagueswith the Tigers, no matter how much
I developed anytime soon. They hada veteran pitching staff. So this truly
was the fate and break that Ineeded. I truly believe. People asked
me, how would it have goneif he stayed there? Ought have made
the big leagues, but it wouldhave been much delayed, and who knows
what my course would have been.And the Braves just had an opportunity that
they couldn't you know, couldn't miss, and I was fortunate to be the

(16:18):
guy that they worked out the tradefor. They kept Serce and once again
in my research, Steve cerces sixand thirteen all time five point six y
eight all time ERA and the Majors. He was the player of the year
in Toledo. So they had alittle hope in nineteen eighty eight when he
was the player of the year inToledo in the International League, but hope
faded quickly and then of course therest was history. You with twenty which

(16:41):
spent twenty years in Atlanta, BoyleAlexander was nine to zero down the stretch.
We helped the Tigers be in AlEast that year, but he was
out of baseball by the next season. Johnny, Yeah, and back then,
I mean, I can't blame theTigers for what they were trying to
do. He absolutely delivered. Theonly loss he got was in the postseason
against Minnesota, and I, youknow, I still rooting for the Tigers
at the time, and then allof a sudden, I said, nine

(17:03):
to no, man, this trade'sgonna look lopsided if I don't do something
on my end, and certainly thistrade will always be known as one of
those that they look back and gowhat if would have happened? And the
Braves, obviously I like to think, struck gold. And for me,
they gave me an opportunity for meto deliver what I had always hoped I
could and that major league career,and these things happened in baseball. I

(17:26):
got to know and had a chanceto interview Lou Gorman on a couple of
Occa's A wonderful, wonderful baseball guy. But I always said, if you
woke up Lou Gorman in the middleof the night, you just say,
we didn't know Bagwell had that kindof pie. We didn't know Bagwell had
that kind of pie. It nevershowed it in Double A, never showed
it in Double A. We needLaryannison. We went to the Division with
Larry Anderson. He was haunted untilthe day that he died Lou Gorman about
that trade, And I guess Billis joy the same way. You know,
just the what ifs. But itturned out to be fortuitous for you.

(17:49):
And as you mentioned at the time, your initial reaction about going to
the worst team leaving your hometown team, but that quicker path to the major
leagues couldn't have panned out much quicker. You were on the hill for you
a major league debut July twenty third, nineteen eighty eight against the New York
Mets. What do you remember aboutthat first outing, which was which was
a quality start, by the way, Yeah, I remember Tom Seaver night.

(18:11):
It was packed my family as manyof the family members got there.
You know. I gave up arun and two hits and a run in
the first inning and didn't give upanother run and went eight. I was
leading two to one going into theninth and Bruce Uter got the save.
We scored four at the top ofthe ninth. I think we won six
to one. I remember being likewalking on the moon and having going out

(18:33):
to dinner and celebrating my family,and then realizing I had to fly back
to Richmond, pack everything up,get my car and drive to Atlanta and
the next game. I went intothe ninth inning in my second game and
ended up giving up I think athree run homer to Nikosaski, And after
that I really struggled, and Ifinished the year two and seven and really
had to my whole career was aboutsearching what I did, digging out of

(18:57):
a hole, and making adjustments.Meaning I wasn't afraid to fail, and
I learned a lot from my failure. So every year I learned something to
make myself better. And that yearI went to work in the off season
because I realized that two and seven, even though the team wasn't very good,
that I needed to make some adjustments. Lo and Behold. The very

(19:18):
next year, I go twelve andeleven and five at the All Star break
and go to my first All StarGame, and then kind of fizzle the
second half. So I was havinga lot of tops and turvy type years
until I really settled in into mymiddle twenties and really understood how to maintain
a big league career and to besuccessful and consistent. It's one of your

(19:41):
I think a quote that we canall take something from the truth is one
of the keys to my success hasbeen how well I've handled failure and through
the course of your career, theadversity that you encountered and the way that
you were able to overcome it.Yeah, it's not fun, and I
tell people all the time, ifyou embrace it and you're not a fraid
to fail, then you'll find outa lot about yourself. But if you

(20:02):
stay comfortable, you'll never get outsideyour comfort zone. You'll never create growth.
And I know a lot of thingspeople don't understand. A lot of
athletes stay comfortable because they don't wantto be exposed and they don't want to
be the ones that they're talking about. And it's really through some of my
greatest failures that I was able toappreciate and experience some of the best success.

(20:22):
And there's no doubt without the failures, there's no way I would have
been the pitchure I was. Thenext year, you solidify your spot in
the rotation, you make your twentynine stats, and a guy named Tom
Glavin comes on the scene not farfrom where we are now from bill Rick
amass right up the road baseball hockeystyle ort bill Rick of high school and

(20:44):
your first impressions about a guy thatyou were going to spend a considerable amount
of quality time with over the nextdecade or so, well, you know,
we both grew up in relatively thesame part of the country and had
the same kind of work ethics andpersonality, joyed working at our trade,
and we didn't take anything for grantedand we became great friends, played golf
a lot, and I just appreciatedhis hard work. Look Tom Glavin when

(21:08):
he towed the rubber in his firstcouple of years. If anyone could have
predicted he was going to go tothe Hall of Fame, you have checked
that person in, and you wouldhave said the same about me. If
you would have predicted I was goingto the Hall of Fame my first couple
of years, you'd have checked thatperson in and got him evaluated. But
it's a tribute to his blue collarwork ethic, this roots of his parents
and where he grew up, andjust that he was not going to leave

(21:32):
anything short of everything that he hadto offer. He wasn't flashy, but
he was diligent, stubborn, andhe taught me how to pitch when everything
isn't going right, like how tohave that poker face. And there's a
lot of things that under the hoodand people didn't understand what was going on
with Tom Glavin, but he wonthree hundred plus games, and that's a

(21:52):
big tribute to his personality and stickto itiveness and work ethic. You mentioned
about being similarities with the country Tom'sBoston guy. You're a Detroit guy,
John. As a lifelong baseball fan, it never ceases to amaze me how
anybody can make it from Boston toDetroit with all the advantages of the California,
the Texas to Florida, all thewarm weather Arizona. These guys,

(22:15):
it's really remarkable to me to seea glavin of Smaltz guys from Detroit and
Boston make it, particularly as pictures, because of all the disadvantage that you
grow up with just the weather alone. I think we actually had an advantage
because we never got burned out.We played seasonal sports. You mentioned Tom
and Tommy played hockey, and wewere able to pour in the When the
season's changed, the sports changed,and I think it's becoming a huge disadvantage

(22:38):
from an injury situation for those kidswho think and parents think they get to
play year round, that they're perfectingtheir craft. There's nothing that is being
documented that isn't farther from the truththat year around baseball or year around sports
is a byproduct of basically you're goingto get injured. And so I think

(22:59):
that the scouts back then realized thatwe had a lot more on our arms
because we could only throw so muchand that we didn't overthrow, and I
think it became a blessing. Mydad tried to move us to Florida from
my baseball career, yeah, andI begged him not to. I just
wanted to stay home play. Ourhouse never sold, thankfully, because I
liked it where we were and Ihad the fun and best time of my

(23:22):
life playing all the sports that theseasons in Michigan allowed us to play.
And I tell parents that all thetime I've held seminars, and it just
seems like they don't think I knowwhat I'm talking about. Because more is
better, Yeah, more is betterin the eye of the boulder and the
business of baseball, and that's reallysaddens me. It's why I spent a
significant time in my speech addressing that. I addressed it that, you know,

(23:45):
baseball's not a year we're on sport. I wanted to take the burden
off the parents to understand that theirGod given talent is something you can't teach.
That if a child is athletic,he'll be able to perfect his sport
in whether it's the short time.And I just think that that was important
enough for me, it didn't.Hopefully it helps some parents, But I
think the business and of sports isso big that no one's paying attention to

(24:08):
the outcome or the or the problemsthat come along with hitting two thousand times
a week and pitching every you know, eight months a year. All those
things create an opportunity for you toget looked at and get in the big
leagues. But the sustainability is justnot there. The evidence is showing absolutely

(24:29):
know that. The Hall of Famespeech there and you talked about, you
know how ludicrous fourteen year old kidsgetting Tommy John surgery is. If this
is this is the right route totake, it's just so distorted it is,
And and social media has exasperated thatbecause when a kid at twelve years
old touches eighty on a radar gun, nobody even knows if you can pitch,
but it blows up and every scoutand every coach of college wants to

(24:51):
look at them because that we're obsessedwith the velocity that the distance people hit
a baseball. I don't even knowif the person is athletic enough to repeat
that delivery. That so it's becomesuch a craze and such a carnival style
baseball where radar guns are ruling theyouth baseball. That it's kind of like,

(25:14):
you know, I tell parents allthe time, it's like Christmas.
If you have a gift, youwrap it up and you put it under
the tree, and when it's timeyou open it. The same thing with
an arm. You've got to wrapthat arm up. You can't allow that
to be on display all the time, because at twelve means nothing. People
used to come to me and saythings like my son has got a one

(25:36):
point two ERA and he's nine andone, and I'm like, what college
does he go to? Is no, he's ten, And I'm like,
oh, you know what, that'sgreat, but that doesn't mean anything like
that means he's absolutely probably spinning breakingballs, pitching too much, playing travel
baseball. All these things that aregreat within balance become out of balance and

(25:57):
just gives this young man a greaterchance to have that Tommy John to have
the second one. And you knowthat's why I said, doctors disagreed with
me when I made this statement.I don't believe and I understand the doctor's
statement after I make this, butI don't believe there'll be another Tommy John
recipient that goes to the Hall ofFame. And the reason they disagree is

(26:18):
because there are going to be somany people that have Tommy John, the
chances go up. But my pointwas they're having Tommy John at such an
early age in their careers. There'sno evidence that it last importuity, right
Like I think the careers are goingto be shortened because of Tommy John's which
therefore hurts the chances of a Hallof Famer. I will say though,

(26:40):
that since I said that one hundredyears ago, there is a better chance
that someone will get in via TommyJohn, only because there's just so many
more and you'll find some one thatwill be able to do it. Glavin
joins in eighty nine. Bobby Coxettdecides to come back to the dugout in

(27:02):
nineteen ninety and he brings a gentlemanthat had a rather sizable impact in your
career. Along you mentioned about notbeing coached in the Tiger system. Pitching
guru Leo Mazzoni comes into your lifeat that point and he certainly had some
theories about pitching and as guru,as mentor probably immeasurable, how much of

(27:26):
an impact and an influence he hadon your career, Johnny, Well,
it was huge early because I waslost. I told you I didn't come
from any pitching coaches really, perse. I didn't have any kind of
basis for what I was trying todo. And he established an athletic driven
delivery. He made it easy forme. He said, throw a baseball
as naturally as you can, andthen let's work on the upgrade of your
pitches. And that's exactly what hedid, and it turned into my fastball

(27:48):
being a down and a way fourseeing fastball, a throw turned slider that
became my money pitch. I alwayshad the big curveball, brought it back
along and then developed my split.And then I learned to become my own
pitching coach about five years into mycareer, which is a great thing for
every pitcher. You've got to beable to learn that so you're not so
reliant and dependent upon somebody else.But he was a huge influence early on

(28:10):
in my career. It really helpedto shape what kind of pitchure I was
going to be, as Farrus,what kind of team the Braves were going
to be. Much has been madeof the worst to first. I think
more of it should be made ofthe just the magnitude. You went from
a ninety seven lost season where youlost ninety seven more games for three years

(28:30):
to winning ninety four in nineteen ninetyone. What was that like for you
in terms of the ride suddenly changing, This this bumpy roller coaster ride was
suddenly one that it looked like thisteam had what it take to could go
all away and maybe win a WorldSeries. All of a sudden, Yeah,
we could see the progress coming inthe minors with the prospects, but

(28:51):
I wasn't a good year for me. I felt responsible for our first half
being seven games back. I wastwo and eleven, right, and I
had really struggled with getting out ofhim and limiting the damage, and thankfully
Bobby Cocks allowed me to stay inthe rotation in the second half. Most
people were calling for me to goto the bullpener be sent down, and
I went twelve and two in thesecond half and put it all together.

(29:11):
Terry Penalty and Sid Breen, RafaelBelly aard veteran players who helped us and
taught us how to win in themoment, and it just was a magical
campaign. For me in the secondhalf, for perseverance, what I talked
about from coming from failure and thenpitching the three most significant games and what
would be our brains. You know, the clinching nine inning game in the

(29:33):
to get us in the postseason againstHouston. It was a rocky game,
but my manager let me go nine, and then I pitched the ninth you
know, nine shutout innings against Pittsburghin Game seven, and almost pitched nine
shutout innings in Game seven against Minnesota. So no one could have predicted at
the end of the All Star breakthat I would be able to turn it
around and that this team would beable to go, like you said,

(29:56):
into a place that nobody predicted,and nobody paid it attention. The Dodgers,
the Reds, they weren't looking atus. We just kind of snuck
up on everybody and snatched it.I think the last seven games on the
road we went seven and zero,which talks a lot about the maturity of
our team and how we responded andrespond Indeed, matter of fact, you

(30:17):
mentioned twelve and two down the stretch, and you also had an opportunity too,
and this was I think rather novelfor the time consulted a sports psychologist
right kind of get things turned around. For the mental side of it,
which went from two and eleven totwelve and two. Yeah, I was
in a funk and the general managerasked me if I would speak with somebody,
and I got in a slump,like everybody does. And sometimes it's
physical, sometimes it's mental. Inthis case, it was more mental.

(30:41):
I openly talk about it that Imessed up in the off season. I
let a negotiation go awride affect me. I was very determined to show my
general manager why the negotiations went thewrong way, and I changed my philosophy
and I really got me into ahole. And so this was such a
simple process that allowed me to getback on track. I know in that

(31:03):
timeframe, everybody wanted to believe thatI was sitting in a chair with a
TikTok and this guy doctor transformed meand turned me into a great picture.
That's not the case, but hegave me some tools to just unlock some
of the things that were stuck,and I never looked back after that.
It was never an issue. Andmany people didn't really want to know the
real story. They just wanted tobelieve in this other story, and it

(31:26):
got legs, and then I finallyhad to put an end to it and
say, look, I'm an advocatefor sports psychology. I'm an advocate for
people getting out of any kind ofslumps in life, and I think there's
the right way to be able todo it. And I just think the
media back then, you know,imagine doing that and never getting asked a
question the entire year, and theywere talking to the sports psychologist the entire

(31:48):
time about it instead of me.And so then the next year I finally
had to just basically say, enough'senough, let's talk about the reality of
what went on. So it allis is part of who I am,
and it's part of what I talkto people about all the time. And
I can share now a lot ofthings and wisdoms that I couldn't have shared
before, having not gone through it. A game that'll be talked about as

(32:12):
long as they talk about baseball,and that's that. Nineteen ninety one,
the Game seven of the World Series. Not only is it a Game seven
of the World Series for you asa twenty four year old and relatively early
in your career, the first hintof success for the Braves but on the
other side is a guy named JackLawrence, who you know, Oh,
by the way, you're going topitch against literally and figuratively your boyhood idol

(32:34):
is on the other side. Imean that experience. How did you not
let that the moment overwhelm you andlet the kind of the adrenaline take over
in a positive way to be ableto pitch as well as you did in
that game. Yeah, I didthis as a kid growing up in Lansing,
Michigan. On the street corner onthe curve, I threw against the
brick ball, and I put myselfin every seven game imaginable with abrupt rubber
ball. So I'd already lived itout as a kid and did this for

(32:58):
years. This wasn't just occasional.And then that seventh game in Pittsburgh really
helped. Pitching nine innings finish inthe game. Jack Morris became an afterthought
because when you obviously he was myidol and I grew up watching him.
But when you're pitching against that person, you're not really pitching against that person
per se. And I felt likeI was in his zone my entire game.
It's ironic that the only trouble thatI got in. I had to

(33:21):
come out of the game when heget in and out of trouble all game,
and it was just a tribute towhat he had been through. And
he had enough experience and years onhim that he could tell his manager to
get the leap off the mound,and I couldn't do that with mine.
So it was a magical game.This one I'll never forget. It's one
that you always want to be atyour best when the seventh game comes around.

(33:42):
Fortunately for me, I was Unfortunatelyfor us we could not score run
indeed, the case and dead nineteenninety two. The following year, you
climb them mountain again in the postseason. You were starting to get that just
even early on that mister October,if you will the mound, you know,
Reggie had it at the plate.John Smoltz began to develop it,

(34:04):
and you had another just fabulous postseasonMVP of the NLCS with two wins and
UH and then around the team comingback to rally and then on to UH
an opportunity with the with the theWorld Series once again. The confidence level
of your team at that point waswas it just you felt, I mean,
if we get enough kicks at thecant It's gonna happen, even though

(34:28):
you know, it's not that easy. I mean, just to get to
that point with what you achieved,even in those first couple of years,
wasn't that easy. Yeah, thepressure was mounting. Unfortunately, we had
been uh you know, over anduh they were starting to get prepared to
the Buffalo Bills for some reason,which I think is still a great accomplishment,
but somehow people view that as afailure. The pressure was greater because
the postseason became harder. There wasan extra series now that's wild card was

(34:52):
introduced, so it wasn't going tobe an easier road. We probably could
have lost to the Colorado Rockies thatyear, but once we beat that,
we felt confident that we could outpitch anybody, that our offense would muster
enough runs. And how ironic thatwe lose our first World Series won to
nothing, and we win our firstWorld Series won to nothing behind Tom Glavins

(35:12):
jam and who and for me,I was again who would have thought that
I'd be prepared to pitch a possibleanother Game seven. Had we lost that
game, that would have been myfourth Game seven, and that would have
been something to think about, butI'm glad we're talking about the World Series
Championship instead. Indeed, the finalpiece of the Big Three, if you

(35:34):
will, was put in place nineteenninety three, the birth of the Big
Three, with the signing of GregMaddox. I asked you about Clevin your
first impressions of Maddox now being friendand not full and being part of that
Troyka that rotation. Yeah, thatwas the gosh. When we got Greg
Maddox, that was like the greatestshot in the world for our team.
I mean, I knew he wasa phenomenal pitcher, but I never realized

(35:59):
how incredible he was going to beand how much time we would spend those
ten years together. You know,you can't talk about the Alanta Brais without
talking about the three of us,and that was the reason why we were
able to sustain such greatness. Ibelieve in winning all those divisions, getting
to the postseason, having a chanceto win another World Series. I rarely
felt that we ever got out pitched. But the fact is that we were

(36:22):
linked together and now in the Hallof Fame, and you know, we
get to see each other at leastonce two, three times a year at
golf tournaments and reminisce one of theseyears we're going to go to Scotland and
go place a bunch of golf andkind of cap off our career with all
the things that we were able todo. And it truly is was one
of the greatest rides in the world. Indeed, the three of you were

(36:44):
together at at the top of therotation and I got to ask you this.
We'll get back to the baseball,but off the field, have you
got over the fact that you didn'tget to do Chicks dig the long ball?
I mean, what happened there?I mean, you know you have
to had a new agent for thatone, Johnna, What did you fight
your agent? I was I wasnot a Nike Uh that was the reason.

(37:06):
Okay, that was the reason itwas a Nike commercial. I was
the only one that had homers atthe time, right because because I wasn't
a Nike client, I was notable to be part of the commercials.
So nonetheless a fun commercial for thoseguys to do. And I always razed
them at the time. How canyou do a commercial about chicks did DeLong
balls when you guys can't even hitone and you had five, Yeah,

(37:29):
including one in a game where youwere down three nothing. I mean you
talk about I grew up with NedMartin and Ken Coleman, and whenever the
pitcher would come up back and youknow before the d h well, you
know, you know right now,you know, Sonny Sebert's got a chance
to help his own cause, helpyour own cause that was the ultimate nothing.
You get up there and says,well, give me a bat.
I'll go hit a three run overand tie the game. Yeah, that

(37:49):
was a lot of fun. AndI don't I don't miss those days because
my shoulders are all jacked up.But it was a lot of fun,
indeed, and you know, onceagain the string that's not in a night
ninety one and there was no stoppingnow with Maddox and another trip back to
the World Series in nineteen ninety five, and then as you mentioned, finally

(38:14):
it was as Vince Scully said,with the Dodgers in nineteen fifty five,
next year comes to Brooklyn, nextyear, came to Atlanta in nineteen ninety
six, and if we could justback up to spring training. You came
in in spring training and said,it's enough of this cy young stuff for
Maddox, I'm winning the cy YoungAward this year. I mean, did
you just feel I had an offseason and health and everything and just this

(38:37):
is gonna be my year? Yeah? I did. I felt great.
I didn't have to rehab anything,I didn't come off of surgery, and
I felt like this was the firstyear I could actually put forth everything I
needed to do to make it theperfect year. And I did kind of
have jokingly go in and talk tothe coaches, but they knew I was
feeling good and that that season wasa miracle season minus winning the World Series.

(38:58):
You know, you go, myfirst I win my next fourteen in
a row. Then I lose mynext three and the second half was mine
to lose for the cy Young,which was crazy, But more importantly,
in the postseason, I couldn't havepitched any better. Like that was some
of the best pitching I've ever done, given the fact that I had to
pitch two sixty five or something.In the regular season of innings, I

(39:19):
went four to zero going into theAndy Pettit Game, Game five against the
Yankees. That game and I didn'teven get up and earned round. We
lose one to nothing, and it'shard for me to sit here and believe
that we shouldn't have won that WorldSeries and what our destiny would have been
after that. We could have goneon and won four out of five.
The Yankees went on to win fourout of five, and that's the way
baseball and sports goes. You starttrading guys differently because you didn't win,

(39:40):
You don't keep your team together froma magical season. For me, it
left a sour taste because even thoughI was going to go on and win
the cy Young, I would havegiven it up to win that game,
won to nothing and win the WorldSeries and that would have been my fifth
win. That would have been fiveto zero in the postseason. That would
have been thirty wins on the yearif you count the All Star Game and

(40:02):
the twenty four regular season games.So it would have been pretty special.
But we can only talk about whatif and the big what if there and
the fact that it was Andy Pettitton the other side and really become Now
you look in the history books,one of your only competitors for postseason prowess
with the number of wins in thepostseason that we're accumulated. Yeah, Andy

(40:24):
of course got a chance to playin a lot more postseason games because his
Yankees. And you think no onecould play in more postseason games than we
did, but actually Andy did becausethey were they were in more and he
was able to deliver under the gun. And you know Mario Ano Rivera doesn't
hurt. Yeah, absolutely exactly.You know, knowing that the last three
outs are relatively meaningless for the otherteam, might as well get in,

(40:46):
as David lehim would say, mightas well get in a cab at that
point. But nineteen ninety six,just bring you twenty four and a two
point nine to four ERA, twohundred and seventy six strikeouts, and just
that postseason, just PostScript to thatpostseason, thirty eight innings pitched and a
point nine to five earned run average, So you you literally delivered from match

(41:07):
all the way through October and wellover three hundred innings. So yeah,
that was that was a great yearand postseason. You can't live on one
game. You got to go doit every single time. That's what I
love most about the postseason. Gotto mention one fact about your your hitting
the five to five career home runs, but you've even gotten People might not

(41:28):
look at the fine print of theJohn Small resume. I did, you
got a Silver Slugger Award nineteen ninetyseven. You're probably as proud of that
as anything else that you got thereon the mantle. I am. I
was having a great year, andI'm here to say that I made one
of the biggest mistakes in my lifeby not addressing an injury. I swung
a bat and tore my left shoulder, and I knew it, and I
finished the year like one for eighteen. I didn't say anything and it didn't

(41:50):
get it surgery repaired. I didn'twant to go through another surgery, and
it ended up costing me the abilityto hit. It cost me the ability
to play golf. I ended uphaving two more surgeries after I retired on
my left shoulder, so that wouldbe one due over. I'd like to
go back, but I felt itripped. I used to take a big
swing every time I was at theplate, trying to go for the downs,
and that year was special. Igot off to such a great start

(42:14):
that I could ride the back endof that season and get a Silver Sucker.
Well. So before we get backto baseball, the Big Three,
they had another obsession beyond the moundand that was the game of golf.
And you have referred to yourself asthe golf concierge ye, and I believe

(42:35):
you kept copious notes on all ofthe golf activities. What was that experience
life in terms of integrating that withbaseball, taking the clubs out and you
know who was pitching, what night, how many goals you played, and
so forth, and not raising theeyr of Bobby Cox, the Leo MAZONI,
well, that's the beauty. BobbyCox was an ultimate and understanding what

(42:55):
makes us tick, and so heallowed us to have the free them to
do the things we had to doas long as we didn't take advantage.
And I was a golf concier becauseto do things the right way, I
just assumed I would do it.I got the rental cars, I got
the golf courses, I got everythingthere was to get and the members and
we had the time of our livesplaying throughout all of that great experience there,

(43:19):
which led to some other things thatwe'll refer to a couple of games
in particular down through the nineties.Absolutely some have referred to I saw a
couple of reports, couple of eyewitnessesthat are now in the media that were
younger then. But a game thatyou pitched against the Meds September of nineteen
ninety eight, thirteen strikeout, nowalk, three hitter, but by all

(43:39):
accounts three nothing, shut out thatmight have been. And then there's one
other game that I'm going to referto your no hitter, that elusive no
hitter. I guess it shows howdifficult it is to actually get a no
hitter. That must have been oneof the closest just because of the dominant
stuff that you had that day.Yeah, that was one of those games
I go. I think back toSan Diego when I had I think twelve

(44:00):
strikeouts through eight no hits, givenup in the eight with two outs and
I gave up what was a ruleto hit to Tony gwyn but it was
there, and Bobby wouldn't let mepitch the ninth. That was about his
most dominant I've been. I couldn'tget Tony gun out, and that felt
like that was going to be myno hitter. But I had a couple
of chances. But you're right,it's just very difficult to get that done.

(44:23):
I hate to bring up Tony Gwynn, but since you brought it up
seventy five played appearances. I knowyou don't want to hear this. You're
going to say we got a badconnection right now, he hit four forty
four. You only struck him outonce in the career, and he did
have that doubi As double And Iguess part of that was maybe Ryan Klesko
was the was the outfielder at thetime who maybe wasn't as well versed in

(44:46):
outfield play at that time. Thatdidn't help John right exactly, and the
three of us based him. Howevermany times, Maddix, Blevin and myself
we struck him out three times.So if that tells you how far the
game has changed, that was TonyGwynn at his b and I didn't get
him once. Maddix did not gethim out, strike him out, I
believe, And I'm glad I gothim twice. Glad he's got the distinction

(45:07):
he got him twice. Yeah,Yeah, that's a Tony win. Was
obviously devastating, devastating hit her.And do you remember who you hit that
home run off of the in ninetynine you hit the three run home to
tie the game that it's one ofmy favorite Chris Berman nicknames. Do you
remember what it was? Well,if it was Dave Island, Dave no

(45:28):
man is an island. There yougo off for Dave Island and your three
thousand strikeout. Going to two thousandand eight, do you remember who you
got for your sixteenth strikeout in thatgame? Uh? And point toss up
question, was this for the threethousand strikeout? Three thousand strikeout? Yes,

(45:49):
Felipe Lopez? Maybe absolutely. Iwas going to say, let's say
he's got five hundred points here,alex is moving right along, So Felipe
Lopez you didn't forget. And oneof the other distincts from just before that
in April of two thousand and eight, the first pitcher since nineteen hundred,
and this was at the at theend of your career there with in eight
ten strikeouts in a game where youwent five innings, you were the first

(46:14):
pitcher since nineteen hundred to strike outten, pitch five innings and get a
win in that game. That's that'sthat's pretty bizarre. Also one of those
baseball stats that is Yeah, that'sthat's pretty that's pretty amazing. And once
again, uh, we talked aboutTommy John surgery and you being the only

(46:35):
pitcher in the Hall of Fame withTommy John surgery. You had the surgery
in two thousand. But as isthe case with that Warriors mentality, John,
of guys, you know, withyou with the ultimate bulldog, give
me the ball, it was itwas coming for a while, and you
finally had to succumb to it.In terms of breakdowns and attrition over a
period of time, it seems likea lot of pitchers go through that and

(46:58):
they finally say they just say no. Moss at that point, Yeah,
I pitched what it compromised for aboutthree years, all those postseason innings caught
up and the lack of time inbetween, and I went and pitched as
long as I could until it justcouldn't do it anymore. And at thirty
four, that's when it basically letme know that we were done. And
fortunately I had the surgery, andfortunately I was able to come back,

(47:20):
and never thought my journey would gothe way it did. But a lot
of perseverance and a lot of previousthings happening in my career that led me
to this point. At the timeof John two thousand, two thousand and
one, you were having some strugglesregaining your form as a snyter, and
suddenly there was there was a jobopening on the staff. The always controversial

(47:42):
John Rocker had been doing the closingand riding the seven train to Shay Stadium
by the way, and there wasan opportunity for you to become the closure.
How did that come about with BobbyCox coming to you? And was
it similar to Santa Claus and Rudolphthe Red Nose Reindeer. He came to
you and said, John, youknow, would you be able to close
games for me? Now? No, it was actually the other way.

(48:04):
I went down to the miners aftergetting put on the d L for about
a month or two, and Itold Bobby I'm going to go to the
miners and learn how to help youpit pitch on the bullpen. He goes,
now, I'll wait for you tostart. I said, there's not
enough time to do it. Iwent down and put it in the time
I felt like I was ready.I said, I'm ready. They brought
me up. I pitched in everyinning leading up to the ninth. I
was throwing ninety eight ninety nine,and eventually that season ended up closing ten

(48:28):
on the last eleven games I pitchedfor saves and then it became a sealed
my fate. That saw they wantedto talk about. GM said that's where
you're going to be for the foreseeablefuture. And I had to learn on
the job and learn a whole newpart of it. You just the mentality
and you talk about the proverbial duckto water. All you did the next

(48:50):
year was set the National League recordwith fifty five saves. Boy, the
guys must have loved you being onthe other side of that, the stinning
pitch, which is that your brethrenthere. They must have said, well,
hand it to John now and don'tlet me down. So you were
on the whole. You get tosee a whole different perspective on it,
which is really fascinating when you thinkabout it. Yeah, I did.
And I don't think anybody got topitch a complete game shot out while I

(49:12):
was in the bullpen, I don'tbelieve, which is weird when you think
about it. But that's so muchconfidence Bobby had in me. And yeah,
fifty nine opportunities I think, andsay fifty five, I pitched a
ton of innings, got up anddown a lot. It just seems so
unbelievable that that could happen in ashort term turnaround. And then the next
year at the All Star Break,I had thirty four saves. So I

(49:35):
had eighty nine saves within a yearand a half, and I knew that
I physically wasn't going to be ableto sustain that, and of course I
didn't, but it certainly was ancredible transition in my career. Indeed,
the following year, I going tomention one number that only we can only
be talking to Dennis Eckersley. It'sa very small and death and distinctive club
here, exclusive club. Seventy threestrikeouts and eight walks. You certainly didn't

(50:00):
sacrifice anything in terms of the allimportant control in terms of what you were
able to do, particularly when you'recoming in there's traffic. There's situations that
you got to come into that initself. You know. There's guys now
they get they're almost they it blowstheir mind sometimes as I watch baseball,
Oh my god, please don't letthem come in with any traffic. Well,

(50:20):
it's supposed to be the closer.There might be some traffic there.
What do you do? Yeah?I set some goals different because the year
before. I didn't like some thingsat an IRA because I gave up six
runs in the first two thirds ofan ending of the game that I went
in. And then I just setdifferent goals and try to establish and learn,
and I did that. I feltlike I could pitch without striking guys

(50:40):
out, I could get saves byjust making good pitches. And I did
that indeed, and did it withdistinction, with one hundred and fifty four
saves. With what you did overthose three years through two thousand and four
two thousand and five, you getback into the rotation and actually back to
the All Star Game. What aboutthe overall adjustments for you? And I

(51:05):
mean physically it must have been somewhattraumatic for you to be able to go
from the rigors of the starting allof a sudden, now you get yourself
into the closing mode. Now you'vegot to get back. It's amazingly you're
able to transition and become an AllStar to following you. Yeah, I
had to learn so much that Ipicked the brains of a lot of people
who had done in the past.Physically, it was taking as toll and
that's what I ended up going onthe dl A couple of times, and

(51:27):
I just didn't think that I couldsustain that kind of you know, everyone
thought, well, this would bebetter on your elbow. Well, when
you're getting in the game that manytimes and you're up and down that many
times, it definitely takes its toll. So I wouldn't trade it for anything.
I got a chance to go backto starting after that, and you
know, it just was a uniquecareer. You know, indeed it was,

(51:49):
and you remained a Snyter from backin two thousand and five, two
thousand and six, and seven,two thousand and eight, going down down
the stretch of your career. Whatabout the whole mentality of being, first
of all, the only guy thatwas there for that amazing run of the
fourteen straight division championships. But suddenlydid you look around, It was almost

(52:12):
like one of these reality shows.You were the last man standing of the
Big Three, and really the lastman standing of that core group. You
you welcome in a whole nother generationwith Glavin to the Mets and Maddix back
to the Cubs and so forth,and yeah, that was I never you
know, growing up a Tiger fan, I always admired that the lew Whitaker,
are Allen Trammell played their whole careerat the Tigers. I was hoping

(52:32):
to do that with the Braves.I almost pulled it off. Getting a
chance to play for Bobby and beingaround him that whole time is the reason
I stayed and made the adjustments,and definitely, you know, almost did
it. You know, I finishedwith Boston and Saint Louis. It was
a It was a comeback, andI enjoyed my entire career. And you

(52:53):
beat Maddix in two thousand and seven, that experience, that was one you
probably you might still talk about whenyou walk in the seventh fairway once in
a while. You got him threetwo. And then, of course the
big one was it happened to beGlavin in your two hundredth victory, exactly
eleven years of the day after yourone hundredth. The fact that you matched
up with Maddox and then Glavin insuch a significant game in your career,

(53:16):
Yeah, playing against them was somethingI never thought I was going to do.
But I have the ultimate respect foreach and every one of them because
I played so long with him,Glavin. I'll never forget my two hundred
twin just because it was against him. I would have never been able to
tell you who was against had itnot been against clav And we spent fifteen
years together. I had pitched againstGreg before and then we were a teammates,

(53:37):
so pitching against him again was notas big of a deal as it
was pitching against Glavin. You gotyour three thousand strikeout at forty one years
young, and you joined Walter Johnson, Bob Gibson and the lefty Steve Crowton,
and that was in two thousand andeight, and you're pinting of the
ways with the Braves. We justsaw this with Tom Brady. I guess

(53:59):
that's the only Algie can make somebodyiconic that two decades. No matter what,
it never seems to end well,even with a relationship that was so
deep. And I think you hada little bit of a bitterness with the
way things actually ended with the Braves. You still wanted to pitch, and
you still could pitch, and youstill did pitch. But just to touch

(54:19):
on that for a moment, aboutwhat that was like after being pot of
it for so long. Yeah,there's a change in management and there was
you know, things that didn't workout on that I was perfectly fine with.
I wanted to get back on thefield to prove I could walk away.
When I wanted to walk away,I was able to do that.
I was unable to do that andwork it out with the Braves, which
is unfortunate. Some of the thingsthat were said were unfair about my departure,

(54:43):
which had nothing to do with anybodythere, just had everything to do
with situations somewhere else wanted me alittle bit more. And if I had
to do it all over again,I've done the same thing. I just
wish that things wouldn't have been falselybeen said about me. We're fine now,
and I'm a guy who always tookless to stay with the Atlanta Braves.
That was never the issue. Itjust wasn't room on the team,

(55:07):
and Boston took a chance. Iappreciate their chance they took. I wish
I would have listened to myself Physically, I would have been fine. I
would have helped them a lot morethan I did. I didn't listen to
myself, and I listened to thetrainer at the time that was there.
And when it didn't work out there, Saint Louis gave me an opportunity told
me to do whatever I needed todo, and the rest was history.

(55:28):
I pitched great with Saint Louis,and that's how I ended my career,
certainly as far as the way thatyou ended it, and once again history
making. You had the seventh straightstrikeout game with the Kindals, just remarkable
there in August, and then gotto pitch on the postseason again. So
if you were going to go out, and you certainly went out with distinction,

(55:50):
with strong performances in meaningful games,John, which is not always guaranteed.
No, it was great. Ifyou'd tell me how to set a
franchise record for the Cardinals in myfirst game, pitcher for that might say
no way. And then I almostfinished my six strikeouts you know, in
the postseason game that they ended uplosing. Right, So all all said
things, all things said, Ireally enjoyed my time that last year,

(56:12):
getting a part of a historic organizationof the Red Sox and of course the
iconic organization of the Cardinals and theirfan base. It truly was the two
franchises that gave me a perspective ofcoming full circle with playing my entire year
career basically with the Brakes and tworeally iconic and flagships. When you look
at the Red Stocks and the Cardinals. I still Kevin good Over how nice

(56:34):
everybody was when I was a gamethree and four in two thousand and four
at Bush Stadium. The people wereactually nice to us from Boston. We're
so happy for you. Wouldn't ithappen that way in Boston. No,
No, they're wonderful people, wonderfulwonderful base and what great the greatest baseball
fans overall, Johnny and well,you know, once again all forgiven.

(56:54):
You came back and had a veryemotional day with the retirement of your number
and induction into the Braves Hall ofFame, and you got to throw one
more to Brian McCann there. Yousaid, please don't crouch, Brian,
I don't want to. Don't putme in that condition. No, I
was. It was you know,my my, I've lived here for thirty

(57:15):
years. I'll always be known asa Brave and my tenure here was second
to none, and I had thetime of my life. My career was
one that you can't define in oneway. It was very unique and for
that I'm grateful indeed. And todayyou know, once again, your Hall
of Fame induction back in twenty fifteen, and now many things keeping you busy

(57:38):
right now you're the lead analyst forFox and making that transition. Also your
golf game the Senior Open two yearsago, and bowling. I mean,
I didn't even know about the bowling, but you've certainly I want to keep
you busy at this stage as aas a retired man from baseball, there
is I've got a two year oldgrand and one on the way, and

(58:00):
so life is good. And allthe opportunities I get to compete in tournaments
are great and I can't wait forthe next one. But they basically have
given me an opportunity to do thingsI would have never done before in my
career. And calling the World Seriesis pretty cool, to say the least.

(58:21):
And doing it with Joe Buck isgreat, indeed great, great opportunity
for you there. And if youwant to read more, I know your
book still available, starting and closingPerseverance Faith in One More Year talks a
lot about God and your life forthe past twenty five years, and great
read. And you also have yourfoundation, John Smoltz Foundation. You've been

(58:42):
active with a number of charities John, Yeah, it's been important to me.
Probably the greatest accomplishment in my life'sa Roberto Clemente Award, which recognizes
what you've done off the field andin your community, and that's something that
we forever linked with to a manwho did what he did and the causes
he bought. So I've definitely beenable to impact a lot of different charities
and communities because of the sport andthe jersey I wore, and I'm grateful

(59:06):
for all of that. Well,John, we're grateful that we had you,
and I want to get you backto talk about pitch counts. Sometimes.
A guy that threw fifty two thousandpitches in the regular season another thirty
two hundred in the postseason, I'msure you'll have something to say about that.
And my final thought, other thanthe fact that Bobby Cox said you
were the most competitive and the moststubborn pitcher that he ever managed, I

(59:28):
can't think of a better compliment foryour competitiveness from the Hall of Fame manager.
And my final thought is a verygood friend of mine was a long
time hockey coach at Boston University.He said, why don't they just change
the name of hockey to goalie,I say, why don't they change the
name of baseball to strike one?Isn't that really what it's all about?
It sure is. That'd be agood way. Indeed, John, thanks

(59:51):
very much, really appreciate you joiningus here today and you played well with
us on the Games People Play allthe best and best of the holiday season.
Thank you, pleasure for having JohnSmoltz there. You have it,
folks Hof twenty fifteen, our guesthere on The Games People Play. I'd
like to thank my executive producer,Andy Bernstein, also thanks to calling here

(01:00:12):
all the way from the West Coasttoday and making this possible and making this
ride possible for us with Hall ofFamer John Smoltz. So for Andy Bernstein,
our executive producer. This is BernieCorbett saying, play well everyone,