November 23, 2023 • 49 mins
Today on the Games People Play podcast, Bernie talks to a man whose contributions to the game of basketball go far beyond his sizeable on-court resume, which includes an NBA championship, an Olympic Gold Medal and an ABA Most Valuable Player Award. Please join us in welcoming four-time NBA All-Star, Spencer Haywood, to the program in the second of two parts to chronicle his remarkable journey from the cotton fields of Mississippi to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.
Bernie and Spencer discuss the challenges and dark times Spencer faced, including legal battles over fraudulent contracts, an anti-trust suit against the NBA that went all the way to the Supreme Court and his long road back to sobriety following a crack cocaine addiction. Finally, Spencer talks about his new book The Spencer Haywood Rule and expresses gratitude at being recognized for all that he sacrificed for future generations of NBA players.
Track: "Im Coming Back Again"
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Games People Play is sponsored in part by TicketSmarter and the TicketSmarter mobile app: get $10 off any purchase of $100 or more with promo code LWOS10, and receive $20 off any purchase of $300 or more with promo code LWOS20
Bernie and Spencer discuss the challenges and dark times Spencer faced, including legal battles over fraudulent contracts, an anti-trust suit against the NBA that went all the way to the Supreme Court and his long road back to sobriety following a crack cocaine addiction. Finally, Spencer talks about his new book The Spencer Haywood Rule and expresses gratitude at being recognized for all that he sacrificed for future generations of NBA players.
Track: "Im Coming Back Again"
Music provided by https://Slip.stream
Free Download/Stream: https://get.slip.stream/tzpr1l
Games People Play is sponsored in part by TicketSmarter and the TicketSmarter mobile app: get $10 off any purchase of $100 or more with promo code LWOS10, and receive $20 off any purchase of $300 or more with promo code LWOS20
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
Welcome everyone to our latest edition ofGames People Play. I remain Bernie Corbett,
but we do have a very specialguest with us here today. He
is an NBA champion, He's anOlympic gold medalist. He is truly a
survivor, and I would qualify himas a reluctant revolutionary. Our guest today
(00:36):
is Hof twenty fifteen, mister Spencer. Hey with Spencer welcome. Really pleasure
to be a hero with you,Bernie. I got to ask you to
recall I thought this was very poignantduring that time of the challenge to wear
and tear on you going back andforth with court appearances and what that did
(00:58):
to really just tear you a potfrom the inside. And your mother was
was more than supportive of your effortto make the challenge. She really encouraged
you to fight well because we keptwe come from the civil rights movement of
Mississippi. Well, we could notvote, we couldn't do certain things,
(01:19):
but we also cheered on and youknow when when when when John Lewis and
the and the bus boycott was goingthrough Mississippi and they came down Highway forty
nine W So the next time wepass on the word passing the word.
So we my brothers and sisters,we'd go out on Highway forty nine W
and watch the bus. Wow.Man, hey, look, so they're
(01:42):
just a little older than we are, and they were going, you know,
and they didn't know it was goingto We didn't know about bus bomban's
and all that stuff. We werejust excited that eventually we would be able
to vote. And things were goingon, and it was like and we
looked on by, Hey, it'snot just black folks, it's white folks.
What's going on? Support you meanwhite and black can can cool exist?
(02:04):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that. I thought
that that must have been a reallyreally strong emotional moment that your mother encouraged
you. She said, well,if you're not gonna fight, what did
you say, might as well comeback to Mississippi. If you're not going
to fight it out side, youstand up for something or your fall friend.
And if you're not gonna fight,you can come on back here and
(02:27):
pick cotton for me. That's right, No, walk, I will by
at all of this case all theway to the Supreme Court. It was
a seven to two ruling by theSupreme Court after going through all the lower
courts. Gonna mention one other thingabout the Supreme Court, I'd be remiss
if I didn't mention that one ofthe most brilliant men of the twentieth century
(02:51):
and in all juris, Jurish history, judicial history, you met Third Good
Marshal. I think you actually hada chance to have dinner with Third Good
Marshall. Yeah. I mean afterthe case we were one and everything.
Will Robinson came. We were playingthe Baltimore Bullets, and Will decided to
come in because I guess they kneweach other through the judicial people in Detroit,
(03:14):
because we had a very strong judicialside of black judges and everything coming
up in Detroit. So I goto dinner with Thurgood Marshall and he's explaining
to me about the case and everything, and it's how wonderful it was,
young man. You did such agreat and you quitted yourself perfectly. You
(03:34):
just were just a model. AndI was like, well, okay,
but I'm looking at this menu here. They got a couple ofs on it.
I think I'm gonna knock those down, and Will, like Will Robinson
there, like I thought I hadbrought him up so much better than he's
(03:57):
with Justice Marshall and he's about thisstake. But you know, you're young
guys, So that's my big thirdgood Marsterster. It's like I'm looking at
the menu. Yeah that was niceabout the case. Yeah, all that,
but I'm a little hungry, reallygood, don't have no bones on,
(04:24):
that's right, just all all themeat, thank you very much.
And it just to you know,clarify at the time the NBA, it
was your graduating class, there wasa four year requirement before eligibility to the
pros. And to think about Spencer, the the the implications, the ramifications,
the far reaching effect that we feelto today. I mean, we
(04:46):
could rattle off the names of almostevery major player in the NBA fits into
the category that you created as apioneer. Now, whether they came out
of high school like Lebron, orwhether they came out of college like Anthony
or Magic, Magic down the listwith the entire league, Yeah, the
whole And also you know, atthat time we had only fourteen teams,
(05:10):
yep. And so when the influxof all of the players coming in Macadoo
and so then we were able toexpand Buffalo. So we start expanding the
brand. So we expanded as faras teams are concerned. And then with
players coming in, we pushed theolder guys into a better They taught us
(05:30):
how to play and kept us inplay. So it was like a good
marriage, and the league started growing, the revenue started growing. The franchises
then was like two fifty three hundred, three hundred million. Now they are
like three billion. And that's onthe back of what I did. And
also the player revenue, player revenuethat has been created is around twenty four
(05:56):
billion dollars just to play it,just to play us players revenue. And
so I'll give you an example,say a guy like Lebron James who's making
maybe like forty five fifty million ayear. I mean he got four years,
four years of pay, and thenhe get four years on his legs,
(06:18):
so he's making like, say,we just riding a number up to
fifty. So it's like two hundredmillion dollars. You made four years on
his playing career, four years onhis stats, four years on everything in
his life, his body, becauseyour body is you know, you're wearing
tears. You know, I don'tcare where you play, you're gonna you're
(06:39):
gonna lose some years if you do. That's why you have Kobe and Lebron
and those guys playing twenty years anddon't look like which was like a big
thing back in the old days.We played what you played fifteen years?
Oh my god, what an oldplaying long punture player spent four years in
college? You want twenty one twentytwo when you came out right, So
(07:03):
you know, so it was adifferent ball game. That's my effect of
it. And so that's why thetitle of the book is called the Spencer
Haywood Rule because that's the fact thatthe league never named it after me.
They always call it hardship. Youhave to show a hardship. Until Alvin
(07:24):
Adams for the Phoenix Suns. Hisfather was an oil man, and he
said, I want to go play, and he said, I ain't showing
no hardship. So then they're like, well, okay, come on in.
You can't stop you. So wewon't call it hardship no more.
We'll call it early entry. Thatthink them, that's right, early Yeah,
they call it early entry. Andthen everybody I don't want to like.
(07:47):
I don't like that name either.I don't like early entry. We're
gonna call it one and done.Was John Caller, Perry call it one
and done. You'll come to Kentucky. You get one and done and you're
gone. And so now the PlayersAssociation and Adam Silver, Kathy Barrett,
(08:07):
all of those wonderful people at theNBA, and Michelle Roberts at the Players
of Association, Chris Paul, theleader over there, they all are looking
at after this negotiation, all thisstuff, and to just change the name
to what it is, the SpencerHayward Rule. That it's simple and players
will know who I am because mostplayers have no idea what I did,
(08:30):
how what I stood for. Andso it's an opening experience for them to
read this book and be on thetalk shows and stuff, and everybody is
talking about, well, you know, I didn't know I was under that
rule. Richard Jefferson and all theguys. Yeah, like wait a minute,
that's my rule. Absolutely, youshould get the same as Tommy John
(08:52):
with the surgery rule. And alsoyou have the Oscar Robertson rule where fourteen
teams sued the NBA for free agencyand also for a union. And you
have the Larry Bird rule. Youhave the Larry Bird rule, which is
my rule. Give it the LarryBird. That's right, because Hilarry said,
(09:13):
I didn't your rule. I don'twant that. You can take it.
I got, I got other thingsgoing on. I did exactly,
and really the fact that that Schulmanwas bold enough as the owner, and
that translated into just a brilliant runof success for you in Seattle. You
(09:33):
became the captain of the team,four time All Star UH and you Jim
packed with at thirty once again yourfirst year thirty points with you from your
first full season in the NBA,and I had the five years there in
Seattle were just absolutely brilliant. Averagedalmost twenty five a game, twelve rebounds
a game, and you had theexposure to Lenny Wilkins was your first coach,
(09:58):
first coach, and the Seattle SuperSonicsyour first playoff front in nineteen seventy
five. The coach and general managerwas none other than you. Gotta you
get to tell us about the experienceof playing for Bill. Let me let
me back up a second show,Sam Schulman. Because Sam Schulman, he
said to me when I when Ileft Denver, because these guys was like
(10:20):
cowboys and the ownership there right,He said to me, I'm gonna teach
you about Brooklyn in the city,and I'm gonna teach you about Jewish loyalty
is worth. I like it theway he rolled it off, Jewish loyalty.
I'm gonna teach you that, son. And so I'm like, well,
(10:43):
what are you gonna teach me here? He said, I'm gonna bank
roll the whole case, really,and bank rolled the case at that time.
When we got our final bill,it was one point seven million,
I think. Then we got suedfor tampering with the NBA. We got
(11:03):
another one point two for a lotof the case. A lot of that
were peeled off, but the legalbills were there. He put it the
whole case, the whole bill,all the way through, because he said,
you have not been treated fairly inAmerica. I'm going to show you
what this is all about. Soto this day, I always go to
(11:24):
Israel because Sam wanted me to goto Israel, and I gotta go to
Israel. You know, we gottago, and you gotta go because I
save your cush so I save yourcushion, your toush. So get over
there and thank the people have acamp and have a clinic, do something.
So I got a chance to meetall of the dignitaries. I've been
(11:48):
at the Cannessa. I spoke,and I've always go every two or three
years. I go over with someof my guys from the NBA and we
do our basketball camps and clinics overthere, enjoy ourself. So he had
made a delible in print on mylife. So I'm like, Sam,
you still got me, absolutely stillhas a hold on you. And and
(12:09):
well he should for the city broughtin he brought in my hero and my
man, Bill Russell, he broughthim in. Ye, he brought him
in as the coach and general managerfor the you know, for the Seattle
Siperstonics. I thought, man,we're going to be something powerful. It's
going to be something really really powerfulhere. And russ got there. He
(12:31):
wanted us to be like the Celticsbecause he had, you know, he
had coached the Celtics, they hadwon the championship, and he was a
player coach, so he he didn'tknow at the time how you had to
walk through simple things with players becausethey were coming out early and leaving college
early. So we didn't have thefour years of grooming, so you had
(12:52):
to coach a lot more. Youhad to teach the basics. You know,
it can roll do these things theright way. And so he didn't
spend as much time as he shouldhave. But he was so intuit he
made us work and we did it. But then we had players on that
team was not really buying into hissystem, and I you know, I'm
(13:13):
walking around like Bill Russell was likemy father. I'm like, this is
my man. I saw him yearsago when I was at Persian High School
and we went down to the gameGrobal Hall so and I'm like, well,
well, let's go stand outside.Let's see where they're going to go
stay. So we knew they wasgoing to the Poncha train, but you
(13:33):
know you got to look, youknow, the pon Train hotel right across.
I'm walking behind Bill Russell. Hehad on this cape and this thing.
He's like his beard pierced and stuff, and I'm like, damn,
this is the pros. So Iwalked over behind Bill Russell. From that
point in time, I was likealways Bill Russell is my man because he
(13:56):
played defense and rebounded block shots.That was my brain. And uh so
to have him there, and wejust did not take advantage of him.
We did not take advantage of himat all. And then we had John
Brisker, who was a kind ofa rebel you know from the A B.
A. He was like in CONFIconfrontation with Russ every practice everything.
(14:18):
So and then I was in themiddle because John is from Detroit. I'll
helped bring John to Seattle. JimMcDaniels was another guy who wasn't panning out
because Bill Russell hit him pretty hard. You know, you gotta do this.
You can't be like that. Yougotta block this and do that.
So he was timid. So andthere I was the captain and I'm trying
(14:39):
to like guy, this guy,and they're like, no, that's your
daddy. So Bill Russell is yourdaddy. You following him around because I'm
like, he's they got they gotelevel championship. We won't one. Yeah,
exactly. How do you know itwas with a champ. Yeah,
So that was like friction. Andthen you know, a chance came about
(15:01):
certain players that he's got to getYou got to get him out of here.
We're going to be all right withouthim. And then the next person
he got out was Bill Rossell,and I told him that too. He
was like, let me go toNew York. I was like, okay,
may be next. Yeah, asyou were the first superstar professional athlete
(15:24):
in Seattle with the only game intown the SuperSonics, so it was a
huge focus in the Old Key Arena. So even though you spend a lot
of time in court and off,the court was on the basketball court.
And eventually, as we've had thebackground, your number is twenty four retired
in Seattle. Before you did moveon, there was another rather eventful moment
(15:46):
in your life. There was afledgling shoe company up in beaven in Oregon,
Oregon, and they had a companycalled Blue Ribbon Sports at the time
mainly known for running shoes. Sothe University of Oregon is synonymous with running
with Bill Dellinger and Steve Prefontaine,all of those guys, all those guys,
(16:07):
and they contacted you and there wasa summit meeting, I believe at
Seattle University where they had a proposalfor mister Spencer Heyward about maybe being the
spokesman for their products. The spokesmanI was the spokesperson for the brand.
And also this brand was coming outof like you said, out of Beaverton,
(16:30):
Oregon, which is out of sideof Portland, and you only had
two things yet Portland Trailblazer of SeattleSuperSonics in the Northwest. And so they
were like, you know, we'regoing to need you to be the best
person we can be for this shoebecause you're young, You've got all of
this new energy, you've got everything. You the driving force behind the shoe.
(16:52):
So we're going to give you thetaste of the company some stock.
And I'm like, yeah, thatsounds good. I don't know if the
shoe was going to make it becauseI'm getting echoes at that time, wasn't
there or Ross, but another agentwas working on the contract because they always
had other players by then. Hewas busy. So I'm what is what's
going to happen. It's going todrive my stock. I mean, I
(17:14):
got to drive up my you know, my salary. I got to pay
more taxes and everything else. Andaccountant was like, yeah, if you
take the money, and so Isaid, I'll take the stock. So
I had gave him a power attorney. The attorney gave him the power of
attorney to finish up negotiating and dowhatever. He just could not figure out
(17:37):
how to get that ten percent thathe was going to get out of that.
So he said on the road,I'm playing. I think it was
in Philadelphia. I'm playing, andhe says, well, you know what
I think I'm going to do foryou. I'm going to like dissolve your
stock and we're going to take itout in cash. Oh boy. So
(18:03):
I'm like, I'm on the road, man, can we wait until no,
no, no, no, Igot the deal. I got to
cover it. So he dissolved mystart, took the cash. My accounting
was like crazy, Oh, youhave messed up big time because your income
bracket is way up. You're gonnapay this much taxes. That's the worst
deal ever. I'm like, yeah, but he's saying the shoe company will
(18:26):
never make it, Lord, lord, and behold that is Nike. Yep,
they made it. They did.So every time I spent a lot
of time getting around with Phil Knikeand all of the niked team, and
they always they always were having bigdinners and stuff, and they always Spencer
(18:48):
Hayward stand up our first being there. That don't is not a billion.
It just tort you that's terrible.That's terrible. And then they bring me
out to games. They get Iget all my shoes and all my stuff.
But it's like a running joke.So I get this call. I'm
sitting in New York, Gosh,like you know, they have the negotiation
(19:11):
and the collective bargaining agreement between theownership and the team. I get this
call. It's Michael Jordan. Heyman, I'm having dinner. Come on
down. We're gonna have a nicetime here in New York. We're gonna
hang out. I want to thankyou for what you did and everything for
me, So come on down todinner. So we got all these owners
and people were sitting at the table. Michael turns to me. This would
(19:32):
have been the first one. Hethrew the deal away, the niked deal
away, and all night long hejust he just just stuck it in me.
Hey, come on, that wasfun and games. You know,
Oh sure you know this because wemake a lot of mistakes, you know,
But he was just yeah. Iwas like, Mike, you can't
(19:53):
just dam me with that fork.Man. We had a good time,
but that was one of my oneof my days of bad experience. Oh
indeed, once again the stock wasabout a billion dollars now, yeah,
exactly, well into the billions.And uh, I guess at the time
one hundred thousand was the equivalent.It wasn't too bad. Was the equivalent
(20:15):
maybe two to three million when youtook the one hundred thousand. But nevertheless,
and I met Phil Knight about tenyears ago. And if I know,
and I would have put a goodword for you anyway, try to
get that stock back anyway to getmy stock. No, he just gave
away ye nine and fifty may youknow to stop yeah something, Yeah,
that's right. Just so I'm goingto call him to get off you minded
(20:40):
me, that's right, call himand like, hey, yep, Phil,
remember Old Spence that's right, yourfirst guy, that's right, the
number one, your first spokesman werethe old brooming shoe. That was the
first shoe. Yeah. And youknow every time you would playing the shoe,
you would go down the floor andand and Wilt Chamberlain he found it
out first. He said that shoeain't last. They laughed at you didn't
(21:03):
the game and at the All StarGame, I couldn't wear the shoe,
yeah, because they would pop off. You could pop it off, and
Lenny didn't like me wearing that shoeeither, because you can step on the
hill and then pop off and youdown there trying to put it back on.
So so Will said, hey,guys, we can't have the rook
come in here with this this funnylooking shoe. We want him in a
(21:27):
Converse or Adidas. So I goahead and say, okay, man,
I wear the shoe. I worethe Adidas, and I finished up the
game him and Jerry West and Oscarand Will was sitting over there counting up
the money, like, boy,we're gonna make a lot of money off
these young guys coming into the leaguebecause they got paid for me to wear
the shoe, right, exactly.Welcome to the NBA side. Yeah,
(21:52):
absolutely, Well, you consider whatyou did for players coming to the league
to play and what that did economically, and then if you can city you're
right at the on the forefront andthe cutting edge at the very beginning of
the shoe spokesman, you can addthat into the economics. And you mentioned
big departure from Seattle to the BigApple in nineteen seventy five, and that
(22:12):
was like drama. That was sobecause again I'm this country boy. I
land in New York. Man,It's like the temple was different. It
was like, yeah, the jazzwas different because I'm a jazz man.
I'm like, oh, man,I can go down to the village Village
van Guard. So it was likereally eye opened and experience. But I
(22:33):
had no relationship. I had nobodythere with me, and being in New
York like that, and you're justtrying to play basketball and do that.
And then one night I was ona blind date with Emon's roommate. Oh
really it started with the room.Man. I was going to say,
I've been trying to I'm trying tomeet supermodels my whole life, Spencer,
(22:55):
how did you meet a supermodel?You got to tell us it was the
Roos. You're sitting there with usand we're talking and stuff, and then
we go back to my place upstairsbecause at that time I lived in this
building on sixty fourth and Broadway whereNina Simone, reven I Hot Lionelhampton.
I mean, it was all ofus in this big building. So we're
(23:18):
up in the apartment and I hadI had yeah, I had books all
around and stuff. And she's like, you got a Quran and I was
like, yeah, I have one, and so she started reading and reading
in Africa. I was like,hey, what what are you doing?
Girl? And we had been lookingat each other all along, and just
like you know, because she hadjust came in from Africa. Yes,
(23:41):
that's right, and it's from Somalia. So it was like two country folks
finding each other. And that's whathappened. We found each other and just
embedded ourselves in that love because thefact that we didn't know everything. We
was in the high life of everything. We were like the top shelf of
every thing. Everybody and before wegot married, while we was dating,
(24:03):
everybody wanted to have this fabulous coupleat their events. You know the list,
Yeah, the A list, Yeah, the met and everything. So
we were there. And then wegot married. It was even more profound.
And we started raising our daughter andthen uh, her family was in
exile from Somalia because of the differentpolitics than Somalia, and so I brought
(24:30):
her sisters, two sisters and abrother over and they lived with us in
New York City. I didn't knowwhat the hell they was talking about.
They were probably called me all kindsof dirty night, best, best you
didn't know the best. I didn'tknow, and so we had We had
a wonderful time. We had thislove affair because we were just two two
(24:52):
people who were just clinging to eachother, and it was really beautiful.
It was a beautiful affair. Andthen you know, of course, UH
the high life of the fashion worldand everything studio before everybody started doing a
few lines here you want to line, you want to line, and that
was cocaine. And eventually I brokedown and had a line. Then I
(25:17):
we get I get traded to toUH, to see to UH to New
Orleans where by Elton Baylor and I'mplaying with Gail Goods, Pete Marrage and
all that. We got it alltogether. We were like burning, we
were ready to roll. And thenthey decided, excuse me, this is
not going to be good here inNew Orleans. We're gonna move the team
(25:38):
to uh Utah right, not exactlythe twin city Spencer. I could commute
back from I could commute a littlebit from New Orleans to New York with
my wife chose and what she wasdoing. And so I was like,
well, I'm gonna sit out.I'm not going to sign the contract So
I ended up signing the contract withthe Lakers because Green and Jack McKinney,
(26:02):
all of them recruited me and said, we got the solid team you got.
We got this young guy know I'mNixon, and we got Michael Cooper,
we got Jamaal Wilkes, we needa big fall. We got Spencer
Haywood, and we got this wildguy coming in from Michigan State. I
don't know. I don't know nothingabout this guy. I saw him in
the finals against him and Larry Bird. I was like, he's pretty wild,
(26:23):
you know. So we get totraining camp and this magic and he's
just passing and just oh man,everything we were like what everything was like
so happy and joyful. I waslike, this is great basketball. I
love this. And you'll be playingwith him, you know, like you're
running down the floor and you're like, oh, but the ball is right
(26:45):
on your head. You're like,grab it. Oh, let me make
this lay up. It's pretty easy. And then we will swing that a
triple post. We just clear offthe post and drop it down to Kareem
skyhook coming out of the sky boom, never miss, And here I am.
And because I had a taste inNew York. So I'm like,
(27:07):
all right, and then I'm Hollywood. All of these people in Hollywood was
like Mine, Spencer, Spencer,Mine Lakers. So we get invited to
all these parties and stuff. SoI go in the back room. This
guy back there cooking some shit.I'm like, what's going on. It's
an all bottle he's cooking it,and he's like, okaye, man,
I'll tell you what it is.You know, we're taking out all of
(27:29):
the impurities and then you can putit on this pipe and you smoke it.
I'm like, it's organic too,right. So I put it on
there and I took a hit,and I stayed there most of the night.
My wife had to go to workthe next day because she had to
shoot downtown, and I had practice, and I guess I got popped the
(27:52):
first night because I kept coming back. I kept going back and back and
back, and I watched my gamego from twenty five and twelve down to
seven and five. By the endof the season, it was like at
seven and three and I had losttwenty pounds, basically fifteen pounds. I
was a shell of myself and Icouldn't figure out what had happened. To
(28:15):
me because I was in the denalfactor. You know, it's not me.
Let's go to the film room becausethe coaches were getting on me in
Magic and kareem, come on worldman, you know, come on dude.
I'm like, I got something that'shappening to me. I can't control
this man, but let me goto the Let's go to the film room.
I think I'm doing pretty good.So and they were like, you
(28:38):
know, you dropped the past here, you dropped the past there. And
I was like looking at the filmand I was like, you know,
denial fact that jumped in and waslike, wait a minute, hop back
that film up a little bit.You see that past that Magic dropped on
me right here. It's in myhand, but he's got spin on it.
He's got like a lot of youknow, it wasn't me, it
(29:00):
was magic. It wasn't me shooting. It was him. He put too
much ben at the ball. Andthen the last what passed it wasn't chest
high. It was like a littlebit low the chess, you know what
I mean. And Karine, letme tell you about yourself, big fellow.
You're shooting seventy of these hooks.You're shooting. I know I'm going
(29:21):
to get my rebound on the otherside. Now you're shooting like almost eighty
and they're looking at me like,whoa this guy is. So I had
a terrible year, to say theleast. And we finished the championship and
Jerry West, Bill Charmon and doctorBuss we got together and they were like,
(29:48):
we don't have treatment for you ornothing. I know you want to
get help and so on, butthe best thing for you right now is
maybe we send you to Italy.Italy. M You're gonna put me on
the isle of papers. What's goingon? You can't exol me. And
(30:10):
so he said, well, look, if you want that contract you just
signed with the Lakers, you gotto honor it. And we don't want
you to go into Dallas because you'regonna get right in Dallas and come back
and hurt us. Later, Itook the ridge and my my wife was
like, you know you're gonna loveit in this I'm not gonna love it
in Venice. You crazy. Andso she said, well, I'm gonna
(30:33):
re route all of my work toMilan, and from Milan on into Paris.
I'm gonna reroute my work and we'regonna have a good time. So
just go take a year and regroup. So I did, and I came
up of with so much anger andso much disappointment because how could the NBA,
the Lakers and people let me down? And I let myself down,
(30:56):
but I was blaming them. Andso the Italians, you know, the
first big practice, we practice andstuff, and then they after practice,
everybody get together. We go tothe to the to the restaurant, everybody
eating together, and we're tinking andtalking and stuff like that, and they
laughing and it's like a whole festivetime. And so the hate that I
(31:17):
was feeling and disappointment in myself andall that stuff started boiling out, bailing
out, and I started studying theBible again really close, and because I
had a lot of Christians there andwith the team and everything, so we
started to get a feel of everything. And then I started studying the history
of Venice in terms of Othello,the moors of Venice and stuff like that,
(31:41):
because I had a lot of timeon here. So I just I
just got myself into a good spaceand a good place and and I played
very strong basketball, and my wifewas able to come over, uh and
spend a lot of time with mebecause she her shows were in on and
in Paris and all throughout Italy,so you know, it was pretty cool.
(32:07):
But then it's time to come backhome, because I did have my
young daughter and my family and someAllians at the house. So I came
back to Washington, back to theseat of government where I started, because
I started, you know, goingto the Supreme Court Court. Yeah,
I'm the Bullets. You know,I'm at the seat of government again.
I'm like, oh yeah. SoI had a good run there with the
(32:29):
Bullets. We won. We gotall the way into the quarterfinals against Boston
in the Eastern Conference, and Bostonknocked us off in six. And then
the following year, as we weregetting ready to go get going and get
moving really strong, my wife wasin a very bad accident and your mom
was in this cab accident that Idestroyed her face and struck her face.
(32:52):
And I had my young daughter,which was like two or three or something,
and then I had Knotty her sister. She didn't speak the language.
I had idle her other sister shewasn't speaking the language that strong, and
I had Elias. I mean inand out of the house in New York,
and so I had to come home. I didn't know how to approach
(33:15):
any team to say, hey,I need a break. Now I need
to go home to take care ofsome business. So I just quit and
thought I could go back. Andso I went home to take care of
my family, and also I haddabbed a little bit more, and I
just all this stuff came back andI wasn't following my program as strong as
(33:36):
I should. And then I decidedI got to get some treatment. So
I went away to San Francisco anddid serious treatment because I thought the accident
was because I was away in Marshington. I was commuting home on the Eastern
Airlines every week and stuff. Butit was not enough. So I started
to getting myself together and I didsixty days in treatment. Then I came
(34:00):
back and then there's no, youneed another sixty days. So I went
and dropped another sixty days, andthen I went driving all across the country
making twelve step meetings. Because theydidn't have Narcotics Anonymous at that time,
in the early days, it waslike so my support system was alcohol Anonymous.
(34:21):
So I went all over the countrytalking. I ended up on the
bank of the Civil City, Mississippi, on the river where I used to
pull and pick up garbage to maketoys and all of that stuff. And
I sat there and I was like, why would I go that journey into
this madness from here? How couldthis be possible? So I got a
(34:43):
lot of gratitude. I got alot of humility because I had some arrogance.
So you know, arrogance can bea drug too. So I started
to get my life together. Andthen after a while we were just separing
because I couldn't live in New Yorkand stay clean, and so I had
to make a choice, you know, like Eman's work was there and I
(35:07):
didn't have no more work. Iwas just you know, I was just
out of work and finished up andI played and I started developing real estate
in Detroit, and and she waslike, well, you know, we
got to do We're gonna get adivorce. And so we got a divorce,
and then our daughter was in themix of all of that, and
then I I brought my daughter overto live with me because she was like
(35:30):
eleven years old. Because the minewas just really working. We were we
always had that relationship where you know, whoever was working, whoever's doing the
right thing. We will never bepublicly with nothing. We will always be
the support of the family. Andso I took my daughter and that's when
you know, like having your youngdaughter. She's coming on her mensis and
(35:51):
stuff, and I'm like all confused. And I was dating this young lady
named Linda and lo and behold westarted hanging out and hanging out, and
then we got married and now we'regoing into our thirtieth year. We have
three more daughters. We have twodoctors out of that one out of that
groups Lakers. Ze Laker is doingreal well. She still works with her
(36:15):
mother, Imani, and she alsodoes a lot of big work of a
corporate company that maybe I should have, sayd Coke Industry. It's all right,
it's all good, and raising herdaughter and her husband. They live
(36:37):
in Witchdalk, Kansas, but theyshoot back to New York a lot,
and I have my youngest daughter.It was that Bleacher Report and also a
slam magazine. So she's a writer. Yeah, yeah, she's a writer.
But she's also a party person whopresent all of the big parties and
big events for those companies. Andshe's a graduate from u n LV as
(36:59):
well. And then my oldest daughter, My next oldest, number two is
uh she's a professor at Lincoln Universityhere there in Philadelphia. And then Shakira
number three, she's a psychologist inNew York City. She got her clients
and help the whole base of people. And then I said, my youngest
(37:22):
isist. So that's my girls.I have no boys. I got two.
Now, oh, you get tothe next generation to follow the next
generation. One of them got thename too, is Spencer Haywood. A
lot to live up to. Butthey'll have a good Yeah. But my,
my, my, my wonderful littlegrand baby, my daughter. She
keeps saying, I'm going to bethe best basketball player of all. I
(37:45):
said, I know you will.Do they have the hands, because they
got the hands, all knuckle oneach hand? Did that pass on down?
They got hands are unbelievable, andthey got hands. They got coordination
like little babies. They got likeyeah, I'm like, whoa, gee,
(38:05):
you were noted for your hands oflike just hold them up for a
minute, like the biggest in theNBA history. Extra knuckle on each hand.
You know, when I was born, when I was born. My
hands came out, my mom andeverybody was around and came over to see
the baby. They said, now, I tell your eunis, that baby
is going to be the best cottonpicker this county ever. Look at the
(38:30):
side of his hands. That wasmy driving force behind the best cotton picker,
right exactly. Peter VC of thePeter vs. The New York Times
said, he can palm He islying about you? Was he can palm
Sunday? How about that? Yes, palm Sunday, Palm Sunday with those
theres the whole day Sunday could popexactly, very very well quoted. I
(38:54):
just gotta I gotta ask you oneother basketball question. It really baffles me
when I think back the Nick teamin the seventies that you were part of,
Willis Reed, Wald Fraser, EarlMonroe, Bill Bradley, Phil Jackson,
only one playoff trip during during thattime. It was no, no,
(39:17):
no, what happened when and whenthey brought me into town. Willis
reed retired, Jerry Lucas retired,Dave the Busher retired, And so they
said, this one guy is goingto fill that slot for three three Hall
of Famers and so, and thenyou had Bill Bradley working on his memoirs
(39:40):
because we were roomies for a whileand he was working on his memoirs and
you know, in this last days. And Phil was like my roommate for
a while too, and then hewould be like spending all of his time
had read, going over the booksand everything because he wanted to be a
coach. And then you had WaldFrazier with this big old ass book on
(40:01):
his arm, The Sorrows. He'slooking for words, you know. So
uh. And then Earl had hadoperations on his on his on both feet,
you know. So it was likeit was a different kind of team.
And then we started bringing in youknow, like pieces like with McAdoo,
(40:24):
and then we were playing the sameposition. And then we had Lonnie
Shelton, so we had three ofus. If we had a just focus
as as players and really not beingcaught up in anything, and Willis was
our coach. We had a goodsquad. We had a new again.
(40:45):
We were like, you know,hotshot dudes. Di didn't want to listen
to the old heads, you know, like hey man, you know,
and then I was trying to showthe young guys that, you know,
and they always wanted you listened toBill Russell up there and look what I
have. Look what to you?You got out? Threw you out.
So we were like giving Willis aa lot of trouble. Was not good.
(41:07):
We had Ray Williams, we hadMichael Ray Richardson, We had Glenn
Gunderzak. We had Toby Toby Tobyfrom Notre Dame. I can't remember his
last name, but we had him, Tickie Burden. We had a bunch
of players that could play. Wewere just so scatter brain. And I
didn't I didn't do a good job. I didn't do a good job as
(41:29):
as as co captain in that situation. I really didn't. Yeah, and
we were bothering. Willis reed abouteating pork and stuff, you know,
like every time you get ready toeat, and like all over him,
like what you got in that plate? Willis got some pork in there.
Not good. And he was like, get away, I'm not gonna play
(41:52):
you tomorrow. So, you know, so we kind of like screwed up
that whole situation. Yeah, Iget and to this day, you know,
I look at the knicks and I'mlike, wow, all of this
stuff, and I think that allformer Knicks should get together and make this
franchise work up again. I mean, just come and visit the games,
(42:16):
and I do. I come backdown because my daughters live there now.
I go to games cheer them on. Let's let's make the Knicks. What's
happening again? Because guys over inBrooklyn, they got used to be Jersey.
Who goes over to Jerseys other thana lawyer? Nah, bad joke.
(42:37):
So now you got the Brooklyn naright there in the hood, and
we just can't seem to get anybody. So I think Thibodaur is going to
do some pretty good stuff there.I think really sure. He's a he's
a fundamentalist. So and you gotto you gotta build it from defense.
You can't build it from offense,right, Yeah, and you're gonna be
(42:58):
able to attrack some players there,Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Let's
have his seatback, that's right,he could be back courtside again. Spike
could have won this the Detroit Starsof the Negro League. That might be
in his Yes, yeah, exactlythat Spencer get he had another player that
played in the play in the NegroLeague. Did he play in the Negro
(43:19):
League earlier? Bob Gibson. Yeah, Bob Gibson did. As a matter
of fact, Yeah, before hemajors. And he also played professional basketball
at that time too. He cameout of Craton and he played. That's
all right, there you go.That's your two hundred point toss up question
there. Jefvity absolutely very good andI just just bringing all of this full
(43:43):
circle, I think the appropriate momentin time. And as I say,
you are a survivor, and youmentioned about your your problems with with sub
thirty years. He had thirty yearson one day, done one day at
a time. Yeah. But tobring it full circle, your Hall of
Fame induction, you had Bill Waltonthere, who you're very close with.
(44:07):
Yeah, all the way back fromPortland, Seattle. You know. Yep,
he said deadhead, your jazz head. He's dead head, as you
said exactly. You had Lenny Wilkins, your first NBA coach you were inducted
with. Now unfortunately he's passed JojoWhite from the sixty eight Olympics. But
also Charles bars Barkley that's right andjust child for me, and he was
one of my advocates, Goudian angel, right, you called him, yep,
(44:30):
your Gudian Angel, my guardian Angel, because he was he was behind
the scenes working on it, becauseI had went up three times two times
before and it was so painful.And then he he just he went on
in public and on T and Tand and and all of the shows started
talking about it. And then uh, the NBA said, look, it's
(44:52):
about time. He's been in exilelong enough. That's right, long enough.
Yep, yeah, and so andBarkley and all the guys like,
well, you didn't stay as longas Nelson Mandela, Yeah, twenty seven
years. Come on, guys,I don't need to say that. That's
right. That was that unnecessary shot. Yeah, you know what I mean,
(45:13):
come on, Yeah, it wasbeautiful. Bill Walton, you know,
he was like, well in Seattleand Portland, we should share a
few things. On the side,there was nothing nothing, nothing powdery but
right something else. Yeah, exactly. That's legal nowadays. That's legal now,
especially in the Pacific Northwest. Everything'sright now. Based on the based
(45:37):
on the referendum this week, it'sall yeah about at all three. It
really really gave you, as youmentioned, your acceptance by the Hall of
Famers, the inductees that have beeninducted. And also it's come around now,
Spencer, with Chiles Barkley's efforts,the awareness of generations that have followed
(45:59):
and accept and so the players todayfor an appreciation for you and who you
were as a pioneer to what youattained for them and what they have reaped
the benefits of. So it's goingto be very gratifying for you. Gratifying
and even more gratifying is well,it's basically the same is that Lebron keep
talking about, Man, you hadsome game, that's right. Absolutely,
(46:22):
yeah, I had some stuff that'sright. Well, that was the last
thing you said at the Hall ofFame, he said, the last thing
I said. I said, don'tyou all forget I had game. I
just didn't go to the Supreme Court. I had some serious game, serious
game. Absolutely indeed you did.And I know that one of the best
thank yous you ever had was fromthe Lebron's mom, Gloria. Yeah,
(46:45):
personally, thank you. I'm surethat that meant a lot. Now now
all of the month of them out, I'm sorry to thank you, you
know, thank me. And theylearn about the story and Javel McKee's mother,
I mean, she's just been sosuch an advocate for me, telling
the mothers what's going on, Pam, Pamla mcgeel. She tells all the
(47:07):
mothers, Now, y'all, wewouldn't have that that this big house we
have. And let's this guy hereif he hadn't did what he did.
So, you know, because thewealth that was developed was not just for
the players, it was for theplayers, the communities, the families were
so everybody got a chance to enjoyin this journey. So it's just an
awesome time in my life. Man, it's just oh indeed, I'm sure
(47:30):
it's so grateful. As Charles Barkleysaid, the Hall of Fame will never
be complete without Spencer Heywood and uhthe power forward, big graceful, soft
touch, the huge hands and asthey said, rebounder at at a rebounder.
He had the low post moves,he had the turnaround jumper, he
(47:52):
had the one hand swoop like Hawkins, doctor j And I think the best
compliment is you could go by thebig men and you could go over the
small make it all work. Andyou know who also helped in the last
episode of trying to get Me intothe Hall, David Stern and David Stern
stepping up. Yeah, yep,yep. Absolutely to give him all the
(48:14):
way to the top. Truly asurvivor, truly a pioneer, and a
guy that well. I've really enjoyedspending time with today, Spencer here on
the games people play. You playedvery well with us. The name of
the book check it out, SpencerHayward Rule. And it's about battles,
basketball and the making of this manan American econoclass by Mark Spears and Gary
(48:39):
Wasshburn. It's available trying books.You can go to Amazon or I always
say wherever, since I've been anauthor, wherever better books are sold,
I always like to say that.And you can check out the whole remarkable
story. Thank you so much.I appreciate it very much. Not to
give you any flashbacks, I getit. I'll leave the final word to
how it goes sell George Foreman andthe destruction of Iona Schappoulis of the Soviet
(49:04):
Union for that gold medal in nineteensixty eight in Mexico City. Spencer,
thank you so much for joining us. Gold medalist nineteen sixty eight Olympics.
God bless you, God bless you. You got it. Okay, play
well, Spencer, you played wellwith us today, all right, thank
you so much, Spencer Hey.With our guest here on The Games People
Play with Bernie Corbett. Thank youto the boys in Seattle for Todd and
(49:29):
Key One. Thank you to myexecutive producer, Andy Bernstein for making it
all possible, and for everybody thatmakes The Games People possible, and especially
for our guests today, Spencer Hey, it was great spending time with him.
This is Bernie Corbett's same play well. Everyone,
Welcome everyone to our latest edition ofGames People Play. I remain Bernie Corbett,
but we do have a very specialguest with us here today. He
is an NBA champion, He's anOlympic gold medalist. He is truly a
survivor, and I would qualify himas a reluctant revolutionary. Our guest today
(00:36):
is Hof twenty fifteen, mister Spencer. Hey with Spencer welcome. Really pleasure
to be a hero with you,Bernie. I got to ask you to
recall I thought this was very poignantduring that time of the challenge to wear
and tear on you going back andforth with court appearances and what that did
(00:58):
to really just tear you a potfrom the inside. And your mother was
was more than supportive of your effortto make the challenge. She really encouraged
you to fight well because we keptwe come from the civil rights movement of
Mississippi. Well, we could notvote, we couldn't do certain things,
(01:19):
but we also cheered on and youknow when when when when John Lewis and
the and the bus boycott was goingthrough Mississippi and they came down Highway forty
nine W So the next time wepass on the word passing the word.
So we my brothers and sisters,we'd go out on Highway forty nine W
and watch the bus. Wow.Man, hey, look, so they're
(01:42):
just a little older than we are, and they were going, you know,
and they didn't know it was goingto We didn't know about bus bomban's
and all that stuff. We werejust excited that eventually we would be able
to vote. And things were goingon, and it was like and we
looked on by, Hey, it'snot just black folks, it's white folks.
What's going on? Support you meanwhite and black can can cool exist?
(02:04):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that. I thought
that that must have been a reallyreally strong emotional moment that your mother encouraged
you. She said, well,if you're not gonna fight, what did
you say, might as well comeback to Mississippi. If you're not going
to fight it out side, youstand up for something or your fall friend.
And if you're not gonna fight,you can come on back here and
(02:27):
pick cotton for me. That's right, No, walk, I will by
at all of this case all theway to the Supreme Court. It was
a seven to two ruling by theSupreme Court after going through all the lower
courts. Gonna mention one other thingabout the Supreme Court, I'd be remiss
if I didn't mention that one ofthe most brilliant men of the twentieth century
(02:51):
and in all juris, Jurish history, judicial history, you met Third Good
Marshal. I think you actually hada chance to have dinner with Third Good
Marshall. Yeah. I mean afterthe case we were one and everything.
Will Robinson came. We were playingthe Baltimore Bullets, and Will decided to
come in because I guess they kneweach other through the judicial people in Detroit,
(03:14):
because we had a very strong judicialside of black judges and everything coming
up in Detroit. So I goto dinner with Thurgood Marshall and he's explaining
to me about the case and everything, and it's how wonderful it was,
young man. You did such agreat and you quitted yourself perfectly. You
(03:34):
just were just a model. AndI was like, well, okay,
but I'm looking at this menu here. They got a couple ofs on it.
I think I'm gonna knock those down, and Will, like Will Robinson
there, like I thought I hadbrought him up so much better than he's
(03:57):
with Justice Marshall and he's about thisstake. But you know, you're young
guys, So that's my big thirdgood Marsterster. It's like I'm looking at
the menu. Yeah that was niceabout the case. Yeah, all that,
but I'm a little hungry, reallygood, don't have no bones on,
(04:24):
that's right, just all all themeat, thank you very much.
And it just to you know,clarify at the time the NBA, it
was your graduating class, there wasa four year requirement before eligibility to the
pros. And to think about Spencer, the the the implications, the ramifications,
the far reaching effect that we feelto today. I mean, we
(04:46):
could rattle off the names of almostevery major player in the NBA fits into
the category that you created as apioneer. Now, whether they came out
of high school like Lebron, orwhether they came out of college like Anthony
or Magic, Magic down the listwith the entire league, Yeah, the
whole And also you know, atthat time we had only fourteen teams,
(05:10):
yep. And so when the influxof all of the players coming in Macadoo
and so then we were able toexpand Buffalo. So we start expanding the
brand. So we expanded as faras teams are concerned. And then with
players coming in, we pushed theolder guys into a better They taught us
(05:30):
how to play and kept us inplay. So it was like a good
marriage, and the league started growing, the revenue started growing. The franchises
then was like two fifty three hundred, three hundred million. Now they are
like three billion. And that's onthe back of what I did. And
also the player revenue, player revenuethat has been created is around twenty four
(05:56):
billion dollars just to play it,just to play us players revenue. And
so I'll give you an example,say a guy like Lebron James who's making
maybe like forty five fifty million ayear. I mean he got four years,
four years of pay, and thenhe get four years on his legs,
(06:18):
so he's making like, say,we just riding a number up to
fifty. So it's like two hundredmillion dollars. You made four years on
his playing career, four years onhis stats, four years on everything in
his life, his body, becauseyour body is you know, you're wearing
tears. You know, I don'tcare where you play, you're gonna you're
(06:39):
gonna lose some years if you do. That's why you have Kobe and Lebron
and those guys playing twenty years anddon't look like which was like a big
thing back in the old days.We played what you played fifteen years?
Oh my god, what an oldplaying long punture player spent four years in
college? You want twenty one twentytwo when you came out right, So
(07:03):
you know, so it was adifferent ball game. That's my effect of
it. And so that's why thetitle of the book is called the Spencer
Haywood Rule because that's the fact thatthe league never named it after me.
They always call it hardship. Youhave to show a hardship. Until Alvin
(07:24):
Adams for the Phoenix Suns. Hisfather was an oil man, and he
said, I want to go play, and he said, I ain't showing
no hardship. So then they're like, well, okay, come on in.
You can't stop you. So wewon't call it hardship no more.
We'll call it early entry. Thatthink them, that's right, early Yeah,
they call it early entry. Andthen everybody I don't want to like.
(07:47):
I don't like that name either.I don't like early entry. We're
gonna call it one and done.Was John Caller, Perry call it one
and done. You'll come to Kentucky. You get one and done and you're
gone. And so now the PlayersAssociation and Adam Silver, Kathy Barrett,
(08:07):
all of those wonderful people at theNBA, and Michelle Roberts at the Players
of Association, Chris Paul, theleader over there, they all are looking
at after this negotiation, all thisstuff, and to just change the name
to what it is, the SpencerHayward Rule. That it's simple and players
will know who I am because mostplayers have no idea what I did,
(08:30):
how what I stood for. Andso it's an opening experience for them to
read this book and be on thetalk shows and stuff, and everybody is
talking about, well, you know, I didn't know I was under that
rule. Richard Jefferson and all theguys. Yeah, like wait a minute,
that's my rule. Absolutely, youshould get the same as Tommy John
(08:52):
with the surgery rule. And alsoyou have the Oscar Robertson rule where fourteen
teams sued the NBA for free agencyand also for a union. And you
have the Larry Bird rule. Youhave the Larry Bird rule, which is
my rule. Give it the LarryBird. That's right, because Hilarry said,
(09:13):
I didn't your rule. I don'twant that. You can take it.
I got, I got other thingsgoing on. I did exactly,
and really the fact that that Schulmanwas bold enough as the owner, and
that translated into just a brilliant runof success for you in Seattle. You
(09:33):
became the captain of the team,four time All Star UH and you Jim
packed with at thirty once again yourfirst year thirty points with you from your
first full season in the NBA,and I had the five years there in
Seattle were just absolutely brilliant. Averagedalmost twenty five a game, twelve rebounds
a game, and you had theexposure to Lenny Wilkins was your first coach,
(09:58):
first coach, and the Seattle SuperSonicsyour first playoff front in nineteen seventy
five. The coach and general managerwas none other than you. Gotta you
get to tell us about the experienceof playing for Bill. Let me let
me back up a second show,Sam Schulman. Because Sam Schulman, he
said to me when I when Ileft Denver, because these guys was like
(10:20):
cowboys and the ownership there right,He said to me, I'm gonna teach
you about Brooklyn in the city,and I'm gonna teach you about Jewish loyalty
is worth. I like it theway he rolled it off, Jewish loyalty.
I'm gonna teach you that, son. And so I'm like, well,
(10:43):
what are you gonna teach me here? He said, I'm gonna bank
roll the whole case, really,and bank rolled the case at that time.
When we got our final bill,it was one point seven million,
I think. Then we got suedfor tampering with the NBA. We got
(11:03):
another one point two for a lotof the case. A lot of that
were peeled off, but the legalbills were there. He put it the
whole case, the whole bill,all the way through, because he said,
you have not been treated fairly inAmerica. I'm going to show you
what this is all about. Soto this day, I always go to
(11:24):
Israel because Sam wanted me to goto Israel, and I gotta go to
Israel. You know, we gottago, and you gotta go because I
save your cush so I save yourcushion, your toush. So get over
there and thank the people have acamp and have a clinic, do something.
So I got a chance to meetall of the dignitaries. I've been
(11:48):
at the Cannessa. I spoke,and I've always go every two or three
years. I go over with someof my guys from the NBA and we
do our basketball camps and clinics overthere, enjoy ourself. So he had
made a delible in print on mylife. So I'm like, Sam,
you still got me, absolutely stillhas a hold on you. And and
(12:09):
well he should for the city broughtin he brought in my hero and my
man, Bill Russell, he broughthim in. Ye, he brought him
in as the coach and general managerfor the you know, for the Seattle
Siperstonics. I thought, man,we're going to be something powerful. It's
going to be something really really powerfulhere. And russ got there. He
(12:31):
wanted us to be like the Celticsbecause he had, you know, he
had coached the Celtics, they hadwon the championship, and he was a
player coach, so he he didn'tknow at the time how you had to
walk through simple things with players becausethey were coming out early and leaving college
early. So we didn't have thefour years of grooming, so you had
(12:52):
to coach a lot more. Youhad to teach the basics. You know,
it can roll do these things theright way. And so he didn't
spend as much time as he shouldhave. But he was so intuit he
made us work and we did it. But then we had players on that
team was not really buying into hissystem, and I you know, I'm
(13:13):
walking around like Bill Russell was likemy father. I'm like, this is
my man. I saw him yearsago when I was at Persian High School
and we went down to the gameGrobal Hall so and I'm like, well,
well, let's go stand outside.Let's see where they're going to go
stay. So we knew they wasgoing to the Poncha train, but you
(13:33):
know you got to look, youknow, the pon Train hotel right across.
I'm walking behind Bill Russell. Hehad on this cape and this thing.
He's like his beard pierced and stuff, and I'm like, damn,
this is the pros. So Iwalked over behind Bill Russell. From that
point in time, I was likealways Bill Russell is my man because he
(13:56):
played defense and rebounded block shots.That was my brain. And uh so
to have him there, and wejust did not take advantage of him.
We did not take advantage of himat all. And then we had John
Brisker, who was a kind ofa rebel you know from the A B.
A. He was like in CONFIconfrontation with Russ every practice everything.
(14:18):
So and then I was in themiddle because John is from Detroit. I'll
helped bring John to Seattle. JimMcDaniels was another guy who wasn't panning out
because Bill Russell hit him pretty hard. You know, you gotta do this.
You can't be like that. Yougotta block this and do that.
So he was timid. So andthere I was the captain and I'm trying
(14:39):
to like guy, this guy,and they're like, no, that's your
daddy. So Bill Russell is yourdaddy. You following him around because I'm
like, he's they got they gotelevel championship. We won't one. Yeah,
exactly. How do you know itwas with a champ. Yeah,
So that was like friction. Andthen you know, a chance came about
(15:01):
certain players that he's got to getYou got to get him out of here.
We're going to be all right withouthim. And then the next person
he got out was Bill Rossell,and I told him that too. He
was like, let me go toNew York. I was like, okay,
may be next. Yeah, asyou were the first superstar professional athlete
(15:24):
in Seattle with the only game intown the SuperSonics, so it was a
huge focus in the Old Key Arena. So even though you spend a lot
of time in court and off,the court was on the basketball court.
And eventually, as we've had thebackground, your number is twenty four retired
in Seattle. Before you did moveon, there was another rather eventful moment
(15:46):
in your life. There was afledgling shoe company up in beaven in Oregon,
Oregon, and they had a companycalled Blue Ribbon Sports at the time
mainly known for running shoes. Sothe University of Oregon is synonymous with running
with Bill Dellinger and Steve Prefontaine,all of those guys, all those guys,
(16:07):
and they contacted you and there wasa summit meeting, I believe at
Seattle University where they had a proposalfor mister Spencer Heyward about maybe being the
spokesman for their products. The spokesmanI was the spokesperson for the brand.
And also this brand was coming outof like you said, out of Beaverton,
(16:30):
Oregon, which is out of sideof Portland, and you only had
two things yet Portland Trailblazer of SeattleSuperSonics in the Northwest. And so they
were like, you know, we'regoing to need you to be the best
person we can be for this shoebecause you're young, You've got all of
this new energy, you've got everything. You the driving force behind the shoe.
(16:52):
So we're going to give you thetaste of the company some stock.
And I'm like, yeah, thatsounds good. I don't know if the
shoe was going to make it becauseI'm getting echoes at that time, wasn't
there or Ross, but another agentwas working on the contract because they always
had other players by then. Hewas busy. So I'm what is what's
going to happen. It's going todrive my stock. I mean, I
(17:14):
got to drive up my you know, my salary. I got to pay
more taxes and everything else. Andaccountant was like, yeah, if you
take the money, and so Isaid, I'll take the stock. So
I had gave him a power attorney. The attorney gave him the power of
attorney to finish up negotiating and dowhatever. He just could not figure out
(17:37):
how to get that ten percent thathe was going to get out of that.
So he said on the road,I'm playing. I think it was
in Philadelphia. I'm playing, andhe says, well, you know what
I think I'm going to do foryou. I'm going to like dissolve your
stock and we're going to take itout in cash. Oh boy. So
(18:03):
I'm like, I'm on the road, man, can we wait until no,
no, no, no, Igot the deal. I got to
cover it. So he dissolved mystart, took the cash. My accounting
was like crazy, Oh, youhave messed up big time because your income
bracket is way up. You're gonnapay this much taxes. That's the worst
deal ever. I'm like, yeah, but he's saying the shoe company will
(18:26):
never make it, Lord, lord, and behold that is Nike. Yep,
they made it. They did.So every time I spent a lot
of time getting around with Phil Knikeand all of the niked team, and
they always they always were having bigdinners and stuff, and they always Spencer
(18:48):
Hayward stand up our first being there. That don't is not a billion.
It just tort you that's terrible.That's terrible. And then they bring me
out to games. They get Iget all my shoes and all my stuff.
But it's like a running joke.So I get this call. I'm
sitting in New York, Gosh,like you know, they have the negotiation
(19:11):
and the collective bargaining agreement between theownership and the team. I get this
call. It's Michael Jordan. Heyman, I'm having dinner. Come on
down. We're gonna have a nicetime here in New York. We're gonna
hang out. I want to thankyou for what you did and everything for
me, So come on down todinner. So we got all these owners
and people were sitting at the table. Michael turns to me. This would
(19:32):
have been the first one. Hethrew the deal away, the niked deal
away, and all night long hejust he just just stuck it in me.
Hey, come on, that wasfun and games. You know,
Oh sure you know this because wemake a lot of mistakes, you know,
But he was just yeah. Iwas like, Mike, you can't
(19:53):
just dam me with that fork.Man. We had a good time,
but that was one of my oneof my days of bad experience. Oh
indeed, once again the stock wasabout a billion dollars now, yeah,
exactly, well into the billions.And uh, I guess at the time
one hundred thousand was the equivalent.It wasn't too bad. Was the equivalent
(20:15):
maybe two to three million when youtook the one hundred thousand. But nevertheless,
and I met Phil Knight about tenyears ago. And if I know,
and I would have put a goodword for you anyway, try to
get that stock back anyway to getmy stock. No, he just gave
away ye nine and fifty may youknow to stop yeah something, Yeah,
that's right. Just so I'm goingto call him to get off you minded
(20:40):
me, that's right, call himand like, hey, yep, Phil,
remember Old Spence that's right, yourfirst guy, that's right, the
number one, your first spokesman werethe old brooming shoe. That was the
first shoe. Yeah. And youknow every time you would playing the shoe,
you would go down the floor andand and Wilt Chamberlain he found it
out first. He said that shoeain't last. They laughed at you didn't
(21:03):
the game and at the All StarGame, I couldn't wear the shoe,
yeah, because they would pop off. You could pop it off, and
Lenny didn't like me wearing that shoeeither, because you can step on the
hill and then pop off and youdown there trying to put it back on.
So so Will said, hey,guys, we can't have the rook
come in here with this this funnylooking shoe. We want him in a
(21:27):
Converse or Adidas. So I goahead and say, okay, man,
I wear the shoe. I worethe Adidas, and I finished up the
game him and Jerry West and Oscarand Will was sitting over there counting up
the money, like, boy,we're gonna make a lot of money off
these young guys coming into the leaguebecause they got paid for me to wear
the shoe, right, exactly.Welcome to the NBA side. Yeah,
(21:52):
absolutely, Well, you consider whatyou did for players coming to the league
to play and what that did economically, and then if you can city you're
right at the on the forefront andthe cutting edge at the very beginning of
the shoe spokesman, you can addthat into the economics. And you mentioned
big departure from Seattle to the BigApple in nineteen seventy five, and that
(22:12):
was like drama. That was sobecause again I'm this country boy. I
land in New York. Man,It's like the temple was different. It
was like, yeah, the jazzwas different because I'm a jazz man.
I'm like, oh, man,I can go down to the village Village
van Guard. So it was likereally eye opened and experience. But I
(22:33):
had no relationship. I had nobodythere with me, and being in New
York like that, and you're justtrying to play basketball and do that.
And then one night I was ona blind date with Emon's roommate. Oh
really it started with the room.Man. I was going to say,
I've been trying to I'm trying tomeet supermodels my whole life, Spencer,
(22:55):
how did you meet a supermodel?You got to tell us it was the
Roos. You're sitting there with usand we're talking and stuff, and then
we go back to my place upstairsbecause at that time I lived in this
building on sixty fourth and Broadway whereNina Simone, reven I Hot Lionelhampton.
I mean, it was all ofus in this big building. So we're
(23:18):
up in the apartment and I hadI had yeah, I had books all
around and stuff. And she's like, you got a Quran and I was
like, yeah, I have one, and so she started reading and reading
in Africa. I was like,hey, what what are you doing?
Girl? And we had been lookingat each other all along, and just
like you know, because she hadjust came in from Africa. Yes,
(23:41):
that's right, and it's from Somalia. So it was like two country folks
finding each other. And that's whathappened. We found each other and just
embedded ourselves in that love because thefact that we didn't know everything. We
was in the high life of everything. We were like the top shelf of
every thing. Everybody and before wegot married, while we was dating,
(24:03):
everybody wanted to have this fabulous coupleat their events. You know the list,
Yeah, the A list, Yeah, the met and everything. So
we were there. And then wegot married. It was even more profound.
And we started raising our daughter andthen uh, her family was in
exile from Somalia because of the differentpolitics than Somalia, and so I brought
(24:30):
her sisters, two sisters and abrother over and they lived with us in
New York City. I didn't knowwhat the hell they was talking about.
They were probably called me all kindsof dirty night, best, best you
didn't know the best. I didn'tknow, and so we had We had
a wonderful time. We had thislove affair because we were just two two
(24:52):
people who were just clinging to eachother, and it was really beautiful.
It was a beautiful affair. Andthen you know, of course, UH
the high life of the fashion worldand everything studio before everybody started doing a
few lines here you want to line, you want to line, and that
was cocaine. And eventually I brokedown and had a line. Then I
(25:17):
we get I get traded to toUH, to see to UH to New
Orleans where by Elton Baylor and I'mplaying with Gail Goods, Pete Marrage and
all that. We got it alltogether. We were like burning, we
were ready to roll. And thenthey decided, excuse me, this is
not going to be good here inNew Orleans. We're gonna move the team
(25:38):
to uh Utah right, not exactlythe twin city Spencer. I could commute
back from I could commute a littlebit from New Orleans to New York with
my wife chose and what she wasdoing. And so I was like,
well, I'm gonna sit out.I'm not going to sign the contract So
I ended up signing the contract withthe Lakers because Green and Jack McKinney,
(26:02):
all of them recruited me and said, we got the solid team you got.
We got this young guy know I'mNixon, and we got Michael Cooper,
we got Jamaal Wilkes, we needa big fall. We got Spencer
Haywood, and we got this wildguy coming in from Michigan State. I
don't know. I don't know nothingabout this guy. I saw him in
the finals against him and Larry Bird. I was like, he's pretty wild,
(26:23):
you know. So we get totraining camp and this magic and he's
just passing and just oh man,everything we were like what everything was like
so happy and joyful. I waslike, this is great basketball. I
love this. And you'll be playingwith him, you know, like you're
running down the floor and you're like, oh, but the ball is right
(26:45):
on your head. You're like,grab it. Oh, let me make
this lay up. It's pretty easy. And then we will swing that a
triple post. We just clear offthe post and drop it down to Kareem
skyhook coming out of the sky boom, never miss, And here I am.
And because I had a taste inNew York. So I'm like,
(27:07):
all right, and then I'm Hollywood. All of these people in Hollywood was
like Mine, Spencer, Spencer,Mine Lakers. So we get invited to
all these parties and stuff. SoI go in the back room. This
guy back there cooking some shit.I'm like, what's going on. It's
an all bottle he's cooking it,and he's like, okaye, man,
I'll tell you what it is.You know, we're taking out all of
(27:29):
the impurities and then you can putit on this pipe and you smoke it.
I'm like, it's organic too,right. So I put it on
there and I took a hit,and I stayed there most of the night.
My wife had to go to workthe next day because she had to
shoot downtown, and I had practice, and I guess I got popped the
(27:52):
first night because I kept coming back. I kept going back and back and
back, and I watched my gamego from twenty five and twelve down to
seven and five. By the endof the season, it was like at
seven and three and I had losttwenty pounds, basically fifteen pounds. I
was a shell of myself and Icouldn't figure out what had happened. To
(28:15):
me because I was in the denalfactor. You know, it's not me.
Let's go to the film room becausethe coaches were getting on me in
Magic and kareem, come on worldman, you know, come on dude.
I'm like, I got something that'shappening to me. I can't control
this man, but let me goto the Let's go to the film room.
I think I'm doing pretty good.So and they were like, you
(28:38):
know, you dropped the past here, you dropped the past there. And
I was like looking at the filmand I was like, you know,
denial fact that jumped in and waslike, wait a minute, hop back
that film up a little bit.You see that past that Magic dropped on
me right here. It's in myhand, but he's got spin on it.
He's got like a lot of youknow, it wasn't me, it
(29:00):
was magic. It wasn't me shooting. It was him. He put too
much ben at the ball. Andthen the last what passed it wasn't chest
high. It was like a littlebit low the chess, you know what
I mean. And Karine, letme tell you about yourself, big fellow.
You're shooting seventy of these hooks.You're shooting. I know I'm going
(29:21):
to get my rebound on the otherside. Now you're shooting like almost eighty
and they're looking at me like,whoa this guy is. So I had
a terrible year, to say theleast. And we finished the championship and
Jerry West, Bill Charmon and doctorBuss we got together and they were like,
(29:48):
we don't have treatment for you ornothing. I know you want to
get help and so on, butthe best thing for you right now is
maybe we send you to Italy.Italy. M You're gonna put me on
the isle of papers. What's goingon? You can't exol me. And
(30:10):
so he said, well, look, if you want that contract you just
signed with the Lakers, you gotto honor it. And we don't want
you to go into Dallas because you'regonna get right in Dallas and come back
and hurt us. Later, Itook the ridge and my my wife was
like, you know you're gonna loveit in this I'm not gonna love it
in Venice. You crazy. Andso she said, well, I'm gonna
(30:33):
re route all of my work toMilan, and from Milan on into Paris.
I'm gonna reroute my work and we'regonna have a good time. So
just go take a year and regroup. So I did, and I came
up of with so much anger andso much disappointment because how could the NBA,
the Lakers and people let me down? And I let myself down,
(30:56):
but I was blaming them. Andso the Italians, you know, the
first big practice, we practice andstuff, and then they after practice,
everybody get together. We go tothe to the to the restaurant, everybody
eating together, and we're tinking andtalking and stuff like that, and they
laughing and it's like a whole festivetime. And so the hate that I
(31:17):
was feeling and disappointment in myself andall that stuff started boiling out, bailing
out, and I started studying theBible again really close, and because I
had a lot of Christians there andwith the team and everything, so we
started to get a feel of everything. And then I started studying the history
of Venice in terms of Othello,the moors of Venice and stuff like that,
(31:41):
because I had a lot of timeon here. So I just I
just got myself into a good spaceand a good place and and I played
very strong basketball, and my wifewas able to come over, uh and
spend a lot of time with mebecause she her shows were in on and
in Paris and all throughout Italy,so you know, it was pretty cool.
(32:07):
But then it's time to come backhome, because I did have my
young daughter and my family and someAllians at the house. So I came
back to Washington, back to theseat of government where I started, because
I started, you know, goingto the Supreme Court Court. Yeah,
I'm the Bullets. You know,I'm at the seat of government again.
I'm like, oh yeah. SoI had a good run there with the
(32:29):
Bullets. We won. We gotall the way into the quarterfinals against Boston
in the Eastern Conference, and Bostonknocked us off in six. And then
the following year, as we weregetting ready to go get going and get
moving really strong, my wife wasin a very bad accident and your mom
was in this cab accident that Idestroyed her face and struck her face.
(32:52):
And I had my young daughter,which was like two or three or something,
and then I had Knotty her sister. She didn't speak the language.
I had idle her other sister shewasn't speaking the language that strong, and
I had Elias. I mean inand out of the house in New York,
and so I had to come home. I didn't know how to approach
(33:15):
any team to say, hey,I need a break. Now I need
to go home to take care ofsome business. So I just quit and
thought I could go back. Andso I went home to take care of
my family, and also I haddabbed a little bit more, and I
just all this stuff came back andI wasn't following my program as strong as
(33:36):
I should. And then I decidedI got to get some treatment. So
I went away to San Francisco anddid serious treatment because I thought the accident
was because I was away in Marshington. I was commuting home on the Eastern
Airlines every week and stuff. Butit was not enough. So I started
to getting myself together and I didsixty days in treatment. Then I came
(34:00):
back and then there's no, youneed another sixty days. So I went
and dropped another sixty days, andthen I went driving all across the country
making twelve step meetings. Because theydidn't have Narcotics Anonymous at that time,
in the early days, it waslike so my support system was alcohol Anonymous.
(34:21):
So I went all over the countrytalking. I ended up on the
bank of the Civil City, Mississippi, on the river where I used to
pull and pick up garbage to maketoys and all of that stuff. And
I sat there and I was like, why would I go that journey into
this madness from here? How couldthis be possible? So I got a
(34:43):
lot of gratitude. I got alot of humility because I had some arrogance.
So you know, arrogance can bea drug too. So I started
to get my life together. Andthen after a while we were just separing
because I couldn't live in New Yorkand stay clean, and so I had
to make a choice, you know, like Eman's work was there and I
(35:07):
didn't have no more work. Iwas just you know, I was just
out of work and finished up andI played and I started developing real estate
in Detroit, and and she waslike, well, you know, we
got to do We're gonna get adivorce. And so we got a divorce,
and then our daughter was in themix of all of that, and
then I I brought my daughter overto live with me because she was like
(35:30):
eleven years old. Because the minewas just really working. We were we
always had that relationship where you know, whoever was working, whoever's doing the
right thing. We will never bepublicly with nothing. We will always be
the support of the family. Andso I took my daughter and that's when
you know, like having your youngdaughter. She's coming on her mensis and
(35:51):
stuff, and I'm like all confused. And I was dating this young lady
named Linda and lo and behold westarted hanging out and hanging out, and
then we got married and now we'regoing into our thirtieth year. We have
three more daughters. We have twodoctors out of that one out of that
groups Lakers. Ze Laker is doingreal well. She still works with her
(36:15):
mother, Imani, and she alsodoes a lot of big work of a
corporate company that maybe I should have, sayd Coke Industry. It's all right,
it's all good, and raising herdaughter and her husband. They live
(36:37):
in Witchdalk, Kansas, but theyshoot back to New York a lot,
and I have my youngest daughter.It was that Bleacher Report and also a
slam magazine. So she's a writer. Yeah, yeah, she's a writer.
But she's also a party person whopresent all of the big parties and
big events for those companies. Andshe's a graduate from u n LV as
(36:59):
well. And then my oldest daughter, My next oldest, number two is
uh she's a professor at Lincoln Universityhere there in Philadelphia. And then Shakira
number three, she's a psychologist inNew York City. She got her clients
and help the whole base of people. And then I said, my youngest
(37:22):
isist. So that's my girls.I have no boys. I got two.
Now, oh, you get tothe next generation to follow the next
generation. One of them got thename too, is Spencer Haywood. A
lot to live up to. Butthey'll have a good Yeah. But my,
my, my, my wonderful littlegrand baby, my daughter. She
keeps saying, I'm going to bethe best basketball player of all. I
(37:45):
said, I know you will.Do they have the hands, because they
got the hands, all knuckle oneach hand? Did that pass on down?
They got hands are unbelievable, andthey got hands. They got coordination
like little babies. They got likeyeah, I'm like, whoa, gee,
(38:05):
you were noted for your hands oflike just hold them up for a
minute, like the biggest in theNBA history. Extra knuckle on each hand.
You know, when I was born, when I was born. My
hands came out, my mom andeverybody was around and came over to see
the baby. They said, now, I tell your eunis, that baby
is going to be the best cottonpicker this county ever. Look at the
(38:30):
side of his hands. That wasmy driving force behind the best cotton picker,
right exactly. Peter VC of thePeter vs. The New York Times
said, he can palm He islying about you? Was he can palm
Sunday? How about that? Yes, palm Sunday, Palm Sunday with those
theres the whole day Sunday could popexactly, very very well quoted. I
(38:54):
just gotta I gotta ask you oneother basketball question. It really baffles me
when I think back the Nick teamin the seventies that you were part of,
Willis Reed, Wald Fraser, EarlMonroe, Bill Bradley, Phil Jackson,
only one playoff trip during during thattime. It was no, no,
(39:17):
no, what happened when and whenthey brought me into town. Willis
reed retired, Jerry Lucas retired,Dave the Busher retired, And so they
said, this one guy is goingto fill that slot for three three Hall
of Famers and so, and thenyou had Bill Bradley working on his memoirs
(39:40):
because we were roomies for a whileand he was working on his memoirs and
you know, in this last days. And Phil was like my roommate for
a while too, and then hewould be like spending all of his time
had read, going over the booksand everything because he wanted to be a
coach. And then you had WaldFrazier with this big old ass book on
(40:01):
his arm, The Sorrows. He'slooking for words, you know. So
uh. And then Earl had hadoperations on his on his on both feet,
you know. So it was likeit was a different kind of team.
And then we started bringing in youknow, like pieces like with McAdoo,
(40:24):
and then we were playing the sameposition. And then we had Lonnie
Shelton, so we had three ofus. If we had a just focus
as as players and really not beingcaught up in anything, and Willis was
our coach. We had a goodsquad. We had a new again.
(40:45):
We were like, you know,hotshot dudes. Di didn't want to listen
to the old heads, you know, like hey man, you know,
and then I was trying to showthe young guys that, you know,
and they always wanted you listened toBill Russell up there and look what I
have. Look what to you?You got out? Threw you out.
So we were like giving Willis aa lot of trouble. Was not good.
(41:07):
We had Ray Williams, we hadMichael Ray Richardson, We had Glenn
Gunderzak. We had Toby Toby Tobyfrom Notre Dame. I can't remember his
last name, but we had him, Tickie Burden. We had a bunch
of players that could play. Wewere just so scatter brain. And I
didn't I didn't do a good job. I didn't do a good job as
(41:29):
as as co captain in that situation. I really didn't. Yeah, and
we were bothering. Willis reed abouteating pork and stuff, you know,
like every time you get ready toeat, and like all over him,
like what you got in that plate? Willis got some pork in there.
Not good. And he was like, get away, I'm not gonna play
(41:52):
you tomorrow. So, you know, so we kind of like screwed up
that whole situation. Yeah, Iget and to this day, you know,
I look at the knicks and I'mlike, wow, all of this
stuff, and I think that allformer Knicks should get together and make this
franchise work up again. I mean, just come and visit the games,
(42:16):
and I do. I come backdown because my daughters live there now.
I go to games cheer them on. Let's let's make the Knicks. What's
happening again? Because guys over inBrooklyn, they got used to be Jersey.
Who goes over to Jerseys other thana lawyer? Nah, bad joke.
(42:37):
So now you got the Brooklyn naright there in the hood, and
we just can't seem to get anybody. So I think Thibodaur is going to
do some pretty good stuff there.I think really sure. He's a he's
a fundamentalist. So and you gotto you gotta build it from defense.
You can't build it from offense,right, Yeah, and you're gonna be
(42:58):
able to attrack some players there,Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Let's
have his seatback, that's right,he could be back courtside again. Spike
could have won this the Detroit Starsof the Negro League. That might be
in his Yes, yeah, exactlythat Spencer get he had another player that
played in the play in the NegroLeague. Did he play in the Negro
(43:19):
League earlier? Bob Gibson. Yeah, Bob Gibson did. As a matter
of fact, Yeah, before hemajors. And he also played professional basketball
at that time too. He cameout of Craton and he played. That's
all right, there you go.That's your two hundred point toss up question
there. Jefvity absolutely very good andI just just bringing all of this full
(43:43):
circle, I think the appropriate momentin time. And as I say,
you are a survivor, and youmentioned about your your problems with with sub
thirty years. He had thirty yearson one day, done one day at
a time. Yeah. But tobring it full circle, your Hall of
Fame induction, you had Bill Waltonthere, who you're very close with.
(44:07):
Yeah, all the way back fromPortland, Seattle. You know. Yep,
he said deadhead, your jazz head. He's dead head, as you
said exactly. You had Lenny Wilkins, your first NBA coach you were inducted
with. Now unfortunately he's passed JojoWhite from the sixty eight Olympics. But
also Charles bars Barkley that's right andjust child for me, and he was
one of my advocates, Goudian angel, right, you called him, yep,
(44:30):
your Gudian Angel, my guardian Angel, because he was he was behind
the scenes working on it, becauseI had went up three times two times
before and it was so painful.And then he he just he went on
in public and on T and Tand and and all of the shows started
talking about it. And then uh, the NBA said, look, it's
(44:52):
about time. He's been in exilelong enough. That's right, long enough.
Yep, yeah, and so andBarkley and all the guys like,
well, you didn't stay as longas Nelson Mandela, Yeah, twenty seven
years. Come on, guys,I don't need to say that. That's
right. That was that unnecessary shot. Yeah, you know what I mean,
(45:13):
come on, Yeah, it wasbeautiful. Bill Walton, you know,
he was like, well in Seattleand Portland, we should share a
few things. On the side,there was nothing nothing, nothing powdery but
right something else. Yeah, exactly. That's legal nowadays. That's legal now,
especially in the Pacific Northwest. Everything'sright now. Based on the based
(45:37):
on the referendum this week, it'sall yeah about at all three. It
really really gave you, as youmentioned, your acceptance by the Hall of
Famers, the inductees that have beeninducted. And also it's come around now,
Spencer, with Chiles Barkley's efforts,the awareness of generations that have followed
(45:59):
and accept and so the players todayfor an appreciation for you and who you
were as a pioneer to what youattained for them and what they have reaped
the benefits of. So it's goingto be very gratifying for you. Gratifying
and even more gratifying is well,it's basically the same is that Lebron keep
talking about, Man, you hadsome game, that's right. Absolutely,
(46:22):
yeah, I had some stuff that'sright. Well, that was the last
thing you said at the Hall ofFame, he said, the last thing
I said. I said, don'tyou all forget I had game. I
just didn't go to the Supreme Court. I had some serious game, serious
game. Absolutely indeed you did.And I know that one of the best
thank yous you ever had was fromthe Lebron's mom, Gloria. Yeah,
(46:45):
personally, thank you. I'm surethat that meant a lot. Now now
all of the month of them out, I'm sorry to thank you, you
know, thank me. And theylearn about the story and Javel McKee's mother,
I mean, she's just been sosuch an advocate for me, telling
the mothers what's going on, Pam, Pamla mcgeel. She tells all the
(47:07):
mothers, Now, y'all, wewouldn't have that that this big house we
have. And let's this guy hereif he hadn't did what he did.
So, you know, because thewealth that was developed was not just for
the players, it was for theplayers, the communities, the families were
so everybody got a chance to enjoyin this journey. So it's just an
awesome time in my life. Man, it's just oh indeed, I'm sure
(47:30):
it's so grateful. As Charles Barkleysaid, the Hall of Fame will never
be complete without Spencer Heywood and uhthe power forward, big graceful, soft
touch, the huge hands and asthey said, rebounder at at a rebounder.
He had the low post moves,he had the turnaround jumper, he
(47:52):
had the one hand swoop like Hawkins, doctor j And I think the best
compliment is you could go by thebig men and you could go over the
small make it all work. Andyou know who also helped in the last
episode of trying to get Me intothe Hall, David Stern and David Stern
stepping up. Yeah, yep,yep. Absolutely to give him all the
(48:14):
way to the top. Truly asurvivor, truly a pioneer, and a
guy that well. I've really enjoyedspending time with today, Spencer here on
the games people play. You playedvery well with us. The name of
the book check it out, SpencerHayward Rule. And it's about battles,
basketball and the making of this manan American econoclass by Mark Spears and Gary
(48:39):
Wasshburn. It's available trying books.You can go to Amazon or I always
say wherever, since I've been anauthor, wherever better books are sold,
I always like to say that.And you can check out the whole remarkable
story. Thank you so much.I appreciate it very much. Not to
give you any flashbacks, I getit. I'll leave the final word to
how it goes sell George Foreman andthe destruction of Iona Schappoulis of the Soviet
(49:04):
Union for that gold medal in nineteensixty eight in Mexico City. Spencer,
thank you so much for joining us. Gold medalist nineteen sixty eight Olympics.
God bless you, God bless you. You got it. Okay, play
well, Spencer, you played wellwith us today, all right, thank
you so much, Spencer Hey.With our guest here on The Games People
Play with Bernie Corbett. Thank youto the boys in Seattle for Todd and
(49:29):
Key One. Thank you to myexecutive producer, Andy Bernstein for making it
all possible, and for everybody thatmakes The Games People possible, and especially
for our guests today, Spencer Hey, it was great spending time with him.
This is Bernie Corbett's same play well. Everyone,
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