November 16, 2023 • 52 mins
Today on the Games People Play podcast, Bernie talks to a man whose contributions to the game of basketball go far beyond his sizeable on-court resume, which includes an NBA championship, an Olympic Gold Medal and an ABA Most Valuable Player Award.
Join us in welcoming four-time NBA All-Star Spencer Haywood to the program for the first of two parts to chronicle his remarkable journey from the cotton fields of Mississippi to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. You’ll hear about the extraordinary collection of talent that surrounded Spencer at Pershing High School in Detroit before he became the youngest US Olympic basketball player in history and an instant sensation in the ABA and NBA.
Track: "Im Coming Back Again"
Music provided by https://Slip.stream
Free Download/Stream: https://get.slip.stream/tzpr1l
Games People Play is sponsored in part by TicketSmarter and the TicketSmarter mobile app: get $10 off any purchase od $100 or more by using the promo code LWOS10, and receive $20 off any purchse of $300 or more with promo code LWOS20
Join us in welcoming four-time NBA All-Star Spencer Haywood to the program for the first of two parts to chronicle his remarkable journey from the cotton fields of Mississippi to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. You’ll hear about the extraordinary collection of talent that surrounded Spencer at Pershing High School in Detroit before he became the youngest US Olympic basketball player in history and an instant sensation in the ABA and NBA.
Track: "Im Coming Back Again"
Music provided by https://Slip.stream
Free Download/Stream: https://get.slip.stream/tzpr1l
Games People Play is sponsored in part by TicketSmarter and the TicketSmarter mobile app: get $10 off any purchase od $100 or more by using the promo code LWOS10, and receive $20 off any purchse of $300 or more with promo code LWOS20
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
Welcome everyone to our latest edition ofGames People Play. I remain Bernie Corbett,
but we do have a very specialguest with us here today. He
is an NBA champion, He's anOlympic gold medalist. He is truly a
survivor, and I would qualify himas a reluctant revolutionary. Our guest today
(00:35):
is Hof twenty fifteen, mister Spencer. Hey with Spencer, welcome, really
pleasure to be a hero with you. Bernie Spencer is our format here on
the Games People Play. All stories, as I say, have a beginning,
and you're beginning. Born in nineteenforty nine in I guess a town,
(00:57):
a corporate township of about three hundredin the Delta Country of Mississippi,
Silver City, Mississippi. Your rootsand your beginnings were rather challenging, to
say the least. Yes, itwas, And let me remind you in
the audience there was no Silver andit ain't no city. It's wrong and
(01:22):
wrong, wrong and wrong. Okay, but no, I was going in
the Delta of Mississippi. The Deltais where most of the cotton was grown
and the farming took place. Fora cotton you chopped cotton from sun up
to sundown, which is first youplanted and then you watch it pop out
(01:42):
of the ground. And then youhave to chop it because you know it's
a row of cotton and it's allthick, so you have to chop it
with a whole. You let itgrow, and then you have to picket.
And a picket is a thorn.It's a cotton is a thorn.
You reach down into the thorn,you pull it out, put it into
your sack, put it into yoursack, and then you drag that sack
(02:05):
to the next point, and thenyou pick and pull it up again.
You drag it to the next side. And by the time you get to
a certain area, your sack isfull, weighs about one hundred pounds,
and you have to put the sackon your back and you got to walk
back to the trailer. You gotto climb up on the trailer and dump
that cotton out, and you gotto weigh it and dump it out,
and then you go back into thefield. And I started off in the
(02:29):
field as a kid because when mymother had me. You don't get a
chance to as when you when yousharecropping and just indent your slavery you don't
get a chance to go and say, well, I take a month off,
I need to leave. Yeah,no, no, anyway, she
swallowed me on her back and wentback out into the field and went back
(02:52):
to work. And so my myearliest recolleation recollection was being in the cotton
field picking cotton a child or thelittle baby you know you're pulling, because
my mother would saying, you know, you can't just ride on my sack,
boy for nothing. You got tolike pick that low level of cotton.
And so you pick it as alittle kid, and you pick it.
And so I grew up picking cotton, and I thought it was the
(03:15):
worst job, the worst thing thatI could ever do, And it turned
out to be the best. Bythat, I mean by picking cotton with
both hands as a kid were leftand right, and dragging a sack,
I built up my hand and eyecoordination was good. My dragon a sack.
(03:35):
My legs were much more powerful ata ten year old level, and
I was carrying one hundred pounds onmy shoulder, ringing and bringing back.
So I developed into this this monsterof a player. But I didn't know
I was going to be a playerat the time. I was trying to
be the best cotton picker that ourcounty had ever had. You know,
(03:55):
that was my goal. And Lordand behold, I get to Detroit and
I first practiced. When everything settledin, I got adopted by a family
in Detroit, and Will Robinson,the first black coach to coach in the
NC to he hits you, wasmy guardian. So we started practicing,
and everybody was like, man,this guy don't ever get tired. Because
(04:17):
I had been working from son upto sundown, you know, working,
I mean real work, real Andso when he said, well, look
you guess what, guys, We'regonna practice real hard today and it's going
to be two and a half hours, I was sitting back like, man,
this sounds like old Robert Bruh Rabbitthrowing me into the brown pats,
(04:43):
buddy. And so so we wouldpractice and then I would like finish my
practice and then I would say tothe coach, I need another two hours
to work, and he was likefascinated by that. And so I kept
doing that and doing that, andLo and behold. By the end of
the season, when the season cameabout, no one had won the Class
A state championship from the city ofDetroit in thirty five years, and we
(05:09):
got a chance to play in thatchampionship, and we wanted and brought it
back to Detroit because Detroit Public Schoolhad been written out of it for thirty
five years. So that was justtoo awesome. And then my next stop
was to the University of Tennessee becauseI wanted to be close to my parents.
My mother she had never seen meplay. And I went down there
(05:31):
and a little bit of trouble cameup because of the fact that Adolph Rupp,
who was at Kentucky, he thoughthe should have the first black player
because he had lost to Texas Western, and for young people who watching Glory
Road kind of explained that, yeah, and so I just said no,
(05:54):
I kind of wanted to play forTennessee and I didn't want to go to
Kentucky. So I then said,well, look, why don't we just
go to a junior college. AndI ended up at a junior college in
Colorado, close to Denver, closeto Albuquerque called into Robinson according to Will
and it was three hundred and sixtymiles from Denver, four hundred and twenty
(06:18):
from Albuquerque. So I was outin no man's land and just playing basketball
and studying because I wanted to getout in a year. You have to
maintain the B average and lo andbehold. There was just rumbling about the
sixth Staate Olympics and certain guys wasn'tgoing to come. Kareem abdulje bar boycotted
the sixth Stayed Olympics. The samething happened with Alvin Hayes and Wesley Unsale
(06:43):
if they hadn't signed their professional contract, because back then you couldn't play in
the Olympics unless you were strictly anamateur. So they signed their contract to
get out of the deal. Andthen they start allowing players is the first
time the last time they allowed freshmansto try out. And I went down
(07:04):
to try out and there we wereplaying against Pete Merbridge, Calvin Murphy,
Rick Mount and these guys pistol.Pete with averaging thirty forty four I think
a game rich thirty nine. CalvinMurphy was averaging thirty three. Got cut.
(07:25):
All those guys, yep, theygot cut all the whoa, what
are we doing? And then wehad Dan Issel, who you know,
I guess he this is some somesome news here because Iver, Hank Iver
and Adolph Rupp had a little rucketsgoing on, you know, between coaches.
(07:47):
That happened, so he didn't takeDan Ischel. He took him as
an alternate, and it took KenSpain from the University of Houston as our
center. And that was always akind of a sad, sore spots for
all of us. But you know, we didn't have nothing to do with
that, and so we played hard. We played hard. But yet it
(08:07):
was in nineteen sixty eight where allof this turmoil was going whether this should
be black ship boycotted completely and wewere like, what are we going to
do? We got to make astatement back home. So Tommy and John,
Tommy Smith and John Carlos, wewill put on the black glove if
(08:28):
we win our race. And GeorgeForeman said, you know, I'm gonna
I mean, I'm in Houston atthe boys Hope. I need life,
so I'm going to wave a littleAmerican flag, right, you know.
So we were all sitting around doingthat, doing our talking because you know,
at that time, all of themale athletes stayed in the same dorm,
(08:50):
in the same compound, so itwas like you just you just sit
around the lobby talking yack all dayand eating because that was our thing,
George Foreman and no table. Yep, yeah, try to kill him.
And so he got the grill,but not you. I didn't get the
grill. He's got still eating,he's got the grill. Yeah. And
(09:13):
so we ended up, you know, just going back to play. And
before we played, there was somethingthat happened kind of you know, kind
of shook us up a little bitbecause we had Jesse Ones, will Ma
Rudolph and these are the former Olympiansand we spoke to us and we were
(09:33):
like these old people, man,they don't know what the revolution is all
about, and you don't know what'sgoing on. Jess To said, hold
it you some s obs. I'lltell you something. How would you feel
if you had to run before hitler? Ah? We were like, he
(09:56):
threw the he man, oh man. And so we started twiddling with our
socks and stuff and twiddling with ouryour barmbs, you know, like,
man, he put the hitler onus. So right away we were like,
yeah, no problem, the gameis on. No big deal.
And that's when we started to reallypractice our craft and do what we're doing.
(10:18):
And so when John and Tommy andJohn Tommy Smith and John Carlos got
to understand after their race, theyput on the glove and this was like
a solidarity back home with black folksand other folks, you know. But
Ay through Brandage just escorted them out. They didn't even get a chance to
(10:39):
pick up their clothes good you knowand stuff and push them through the line.
There was a line of reporters andpeople throwing things and acting. Really
it was just so on American UHto get them out of there and put
them on a plane and ship themback to San Jose. And when they
got there, there was a wholeline of people out there. You try
(11:00):
this, they won the gold mill. They didn't even they didn't workout,
yea. So that was like thatwas the because we had that on the
big screen. You know, backthen it wasn't the big screen, but
it was the screen. And sowe saw all of that happening. And
then we got back to UH andplayed our game. And then the final
game, Howard Cosell crawl upon mebecause I was nineteen years old and I'm
(11:26):
like, you know, I'm justplaying man, I'm enjoying my life,
and I'm gonna win. We're gonnawin this gold medal. And he's you
know, I tell you something,son, if you do lose this,
you will never be You'll be likeI'll leave some much. You'll never be
happy in America. And Ali hadn'tshown his his his way at that time
(11:46):
because he had been boxing, buthe was that was his boy. So
that was this guy Ali. Sohe was always bringing Ali as an example.
And so uh, we got Igot, I got my nerves got
all shot, and Hank ivery andthe coaching staff got all mad at Howard.
Why would you do that? Youknow he was a kid. Well
(12:09):
he was nineteen. We didn't know. And so you could see me in
the final game, I make alayup and I run straight into the locker
room, threw up, came back, ran right back on the floor,
and we won the gold medal.And I was like just crying on stage
because three years before I was pickingcotton in Mississippi. For four years,
(12:35):
I was picking cotton in Mississippi fortwo dollars a day. Could not get
leave the farm. If I leftthe farm, you know, my family
members would be hurt. So itwas just chaotically say, man, how
could you come so fast and sofar, but you can in America.
And that's the beauty of our countrythat you can come from never never to
(12:56):
this top of the heat. Andthen the problem came aut well, what
are you going to do when youget to Detroit. Detroit don't like you
because you didn't make a protest.So we arrived in Detroit Metropolitan Airport and
there was thousands of people out therewaiting for us and cheering for me and
Will and I was like just boilingover with tears, and I said,
Wow, this is so beautiful.The Olympics sixty eight. We got the
(13:20):
fifth anniversary coming up this year Tokyo. It's just so awesome. So that's
the American story. And I'll gointo the the wars of the hardship case.
Well, I got, I gotta, I just gotta go back to
Mississippi here for a moment, justto put it in context, you never
(13:41):
knew your dad. You were actuallyborn three months premature, and your dad
passed away very suddenly of a heartattach just three weeks before you were born.
Thank thank god you had older siblingsto mentor you, because what a
terrible thing for your spencer. Rightfrom the beginning. You never knew your
father never knew. We never hadto love. But you know, my
(14:01):
mom was like just overwhelmed with loveeven though we had. It was the
eighth child, you know, soshe spent a lot of time with me,
a lot of love with me.And it was always told by the
Southsayers of Civil City that boy isa special boy, He's something special.
(14:22):
And so my mother kind of likebought into the idea. Yeah he is,
yeah, sure, So she boughtinto it. And it was pretty
cool because I got extra cookies,I got little things that my other brothers
and stuff. And if you lookat a picture of me when I was
twelve years old, I was takingthe photo for the school and my brother
(14:46):
Andrew missed out on his photo shoot. So he decided, well, I
just blackened your eyes. So Ipunched me in there. I got a
big black eye on my photo shoot. I said, classic civil rivalry here.
Jeez. He could have just gonelike this and that would have got
the point across. He could havegiven you the money is and steady punching
(15:09):
the punch in the eye. I'llgo you, I'll get you good.
I mess up your photo, thatwill definitely will mess it up, and
just amazing when you talk about theOlympics and three years removed from picking cotton,
you're an Olympic champion, and theJim Crow South post World War Two
(15:30):
that you experienced to go from unacceptedas as an American in the South in
terms of segregation to now being anAmerican hero. I mean the stories about
you being shot at on the walkingaround in Mississippi at night, how you
were treated working at the country clubthat you worked at at the time.
That's an amazing phenomenon in itself thatnow all of a sudden, here you
(15:54):
are representing America, America as anOlympic hero and are receiving a gold medal.
Incredible in its highest form, youknow, the top. So you
know. So I know, withall of the politics and all of the
stuff that's going on nowadays, andwe see all of the separations between us
(16:15):
and them or who them and usor high everd iss, I still say
that this country is going to cometogether. As I saw it in the
sixty eight Olympics, and I sawit after the riots in Detroit. I
saw it after the riots in CaliforniaNewark. So I saw this. We
(16:37):
hit rock bottom now and so we'regoing to like rise up like this phoenix.
We're going to be something so specialas a country. And I'm just
happy to be a part of thegrowth that's going to take place because it's
going to be so special. Talkingabout the early time of basketball career,
truth be told, not only didyou not play on a court, I
(16:57):
believe until junior high, but youdidn't have a basketball. Your mother made
a basketball for you and your brothers. Yeah, well we had We had
no basketball, and we had nocourt, and we had no rim.
Other than that, everything yet everything, And so she says, well,
(17:18):
we don't have no money, baby, to buy no basketball. Now.
That's that's five dollars that we can'tafford at all. And so no one
was throwing out basketball in the garbagedump, which we would always play in
that dump, trying to find thingsbicycles, basketball or whatever, but nobody
was throwing them out. So shesaid, I'll make you a basketball.
(17:40):
How are you gonna make a basketballat bounce? No, it won't be
bouncy, but we're gonna put sackcotton in this ball and put it in
a croker sac or you we wouldcall a potato sack and stitch it up,
and it's a round ball, andyou'd say to each other one two,
(18:00):
and you make the pass or youmake the shot. And so we
were just, oh, this isgreat. And then we put a bell
rim on a backboard. We madea backboard and we put this big bell
rim on it. And this thingwas like, you couldn't miss. You
could not miss because the ball wouldhit up there and just stuck. And
(18:21):
so unless you were my brother Andrew, and then you got three bounces,
you got an extra one. Yougot an extra one because he was cheating.
And so we played basketball and playedbasketball, and Lord and behold,
one day somebody threw one in thegarbage and we watched that ball for days.
(18:41):
We watched that baby all put alittle patch on it, blew that
baby up gently. We didn't wantto blow the patch off, and boy
and they started bouncing. We waslike, oh heaven, we got a
real ball. And then the nextthing we were scouring for was a basketball
hoop. And then my mother brokedown and all right, I'm gonna buy
(19:02):
you, you know, like sixdollars. So we got that hoop up,
and man, we had our travelingshow we just we would travel from
county to county, walking all daylong to play basketball, carrying our backboard
and I patched up basketball to playdifferent kids in different communities, and that's
(19:22):
how we started playing. That's mylove for the game. My first love
was not basketball. It was golf. Can you believe it? Working at
the country club. You working atthe country club developed the love for golf.
Really, yeah. Yeah. Yourfirst you know, once again,
is the people that came into yourlife. The first one that noticed you.
(19:44):
Of course, you were what sixsix at age thirteen. Fellow by
the name of Charles Wilson who happenedto be Wilson eleven time Mississippi Coach of
the Year, and he first noticedyou before you did come north, and
that was the first time you gotto play in I think junior high was
the first time he actually played ona court in the gym. Yeah,
in the gym, real real court. And you know, I wasn't.
(20:04):
What happened was I grew so fastthat I grew out of my body.
And so he says, well,I'm not gonna cut you from the team.
I'm gonna put you on the team. But we only have thirteen uniforms,
and you gotta work. You haveto wear the way uniform when we
play away, I mean a homeuniform when we play home away and your
(20:26):
home uniform. It's like the rightvice versa. So I had on a
yellow uniform or a white uniform,and everyone else had on a gold uniform
and I had on a white one, or they had on a white one
and I had on a gold.And that last maybe half a year,
and then you know, one guygot in trouble, and then I ended
up just playing on the team andjoined and he just he was just in
(20:52):
engross in the idea that I justlove to play. I didn't. I
don't know where I got it from. It was just like it was just
a love thing, you know.I love to play. And I would
stay after school. He would driveme back home, back seven miles back
down to Silvil City where there's noold Silver and it ain't no city in
the right. So they would driveme back and forth, and I developed
(21:18):
so fast, and everything happened.My first basket was in the wrong basket.
Of course, I was so excited. I was so excited that he
started me because we wanted a center. Got put in jail. So he
started me and I was like,oh, I'm starting, and I was
like all the people in the standsand everybody, you know, like the
(21:41):
people from the cotton fields was there, and I was like, oh man,
my nerves are bad. So Igot the tip and the guy passed
me the ball. I'm like,why are you passing me the ball?
And I was like oh. Itook off and I was dribbling and I
went down, made a perfect layer, perfect form, boom into the wrong
basket. My sister was sitting inthe stand. Oh, he's such an
(22:07):
idiot. But I was so happyto get on the floor. I shook
that off right away and ended upat fifteen points and ten rebounds. So
and everybody in school the next daywas like, yeah, tall Man can
play with the little head. Youknow tall Man. They knew he got
game very early. And you tookthat game. You did have relatives that
(22:33):
had migrated north saved up seventeen dollarsbusfair first to Chicago. But when you
got to Chicago, you realize thisisn't much better than Mississippi. So it
was the same as Mississippi, aboutthe same. It's like, this isn't
much of an improvement. So thankfullyyou had another opportunity knocking in Detroit with
your brother Leroy. Yeah, mybrother Leroy, he was a student at
(22:56):
Bowling Green. Let me give youthe pair of between my brothers in Chicago.
My brother's in Chicago. They werelike, had on these jelly looking
suits and stuff and these shiny lookingshoes, and they drink heavily and they
partied. They worked hard, butthey on the weekend they were like into
(23:18):
it. And my brother came overfrom the university Bowling Green State University to
see us and visit with his family. And I'm looking at him, and
I'm looking at that. What aredifference? And he is playing at a
major university Division one. So I'mlike, this guy I want to follow.
So he saw me. We wentout and played together and played together,
(23:41):
just pick up one on one andstuff. And he came back and
he said, hey, you gotto pack up his guest stuff. And
I was like, I'm going withyou. He said, yeah, you're
going with me. So I putall my stuff in a ten pound bag,
you know, the paper bag,because I only had one pair of
pants, two shirts, and someunderwear. And I was on my way
(24:02):
and we got to get down tobowling Green State University, and from there
he brought me into Detroit to playat the fame Krunk outdoor courts. You
know the boxing. Yeah, yeah, outside was basketball and tennis and baseball,
et cetera. And so I gota chance to play against all of
the high school players on a highschool tournament. And I just ran all
(24:26):
day long and killed them guys.And I had a hole in my gym
shoe, and I was like,maybe they gonna give me a pair of
the brand new Converts because mine hadcardboard in the bottle, and lo and
behold the next game they came inand we were playing, getting ready to
play against Cassie Russell, Bill Buntsand all of those college players. Yeah,
(24:49):
young boy, you got some newshoes here. Whoa, I got
some new shoes that fit up downSouth. You know your shoes all,
you know, because then they haveexcizes. So I got those shoes and
put those shoes on. I feltlike, oh, I died and went
to heaven. And then I wasasking in the locker room because the other
(25:11):
players were like, I don't wantto play in those shoes. I don't
want to play in no converts.I want to play in the DDAs.
I want to play in you know, pro kids. I don't want to
play in that mess. So Iwas like saying, oh, can you
put them all over in the cornerthere, because I know a lot of
my friends in Civil City, Mississippi, they don't have shoes. My brothers,
sure, they don't have shoes.They play. So I gathered up
(25:33):
the shoes and had my stuff alltucked in and had a great game.
And then they ended up letting meplay against the pros Dave Bing and and
all of those guys. And Idid real well there and had fun.
And that's when the family decided toadopt me and raise me, and lo
and behold when I get to theuniform over to Persian High School. I
was lacking in education because they shutdown the schools in Mississippi to do harvest,
(26:00):
do planting and so on, soyou're far behind. And I met
this great genius, doctor Wayne Dyer. And doctor Wayne Dyer really yeah.
He took over my life and walkedme through study programs, everything and self
esteem because everything I did at thatpoint, I was always my head was
(26:21):
down because you eyeb all the personin the Mississippi punchure in the phrase a
white person, you know, likewalk around like that. So he taught
me how to you know, everythingis chin up, chin out, and
then he would drop me off inBirmingham, Michigan, and I would have
to stay up there and I wouldsit at this bus stop and these older
(26:42):
white ladies and Jewish lady would alwayscome every day and I'm sitting there.
We just talking all the time.And then we walked down the street down
Woodward, and they were talking,We're gonna help teach you boy. We're
gonna make you a genteel, agenteel gentleman. So we were walking,
(27:03):
we were talking. There was correctingme. You said it wrong. You
can't say words like that. Yougotta say it like this property. Fll
in love with them. And Iwould look forward to that every you know,
every other day whenever we got upthere. I just looked so forward
to that. And then sometime theywere like, let me go in the
restaurant. Missus Bell would say,don't you go in there, order no
(27:29):
steak? Now, you get yourselfnow with be happy. I solely wanted
to have, like, man,give me this RIBI that's right, make
the most of the opportunity. Soso many people, white and black,
a part of my life made it. This made me who I am.
You mentioned the family that you livewith, James and Ida Bell and Will
(27:53):
Will Robinson the coach, and justI was just fascinated by doing some research
on Will Robinson. Remember of sevenHall of Fames. First Black. We'll
get to that in the moment.About he was the first black Division one
head coach. He should have beenabout a year or two sooner. We'll
talk about that. Was on hold, we'll talk that's right, we'll talk
(28:15):
about that in a minute. Butwas a scout for the Detroit Pistons for
twenty eight years. He found JoeDumiers and Dennis Rodman. He was a
scout for the Detroit Lions for twentytwo years. He found two Hall of
Famers, Charlie Sanders and Lemboni.And he was the first black high school
coach in Michigan. And uh,I'm going to make the understatement that I've
(28:36):
made on this program. I don'tthink I've ever made a bigger understatement than
this. You had some pretty goodathletes on that high school basketball team,
Spencer. Five guys that played inthree professional sports. Are you kidding me?
On? Unbelievable? Unbelievable, Ohmy goodness, what was that?
That experience you had? Glenn Dowdyand Paul Seal played for bo Sham Becker
(29:00):
played in the NFL. Yeah,you had Ralph Simpson who played ten years,
kind of followed you to the DenverNights a year later but played in
the NBA. And then Marvin Lane, who built a lejoy of the was
the Detroit Tigers scouting later that GM. He said he was the best athlete
of the bunch. He was thequarterback on the football team, and he
was your point guard and he playedMajor League Baseball baseball. Unbelievable on one
(29:22):
high school on one team. Itshould be in ESPN thirty for thirty,
man for thirty right there, youknow, one team, Like how do
you do this? But Will wassuch a you know, you had to
play two sports back then. AndI was a track man. I still
loved because I used to run inMississippi trying to get to school on time
(29:44):
and stuff. So I ran crosscountry just just running. And so when
I got to Detroit right away hesaid, well, you know, you
got to have another sport, andI really wanted to play tity end in
football, so I did go outto get a few catches in and doing
that period, we was doing alittle scrimmage, so I went across the
middle of the linebacker came and metme at the point. He said hello,
(30:07):
and I said, yeah, Idon't think I want to play this.
I called up the ball. Icoughed the ball. Will Robinson with
nuts and these Tellerson you you,I told you you're going to mess up
the state championship messing around with thisstuff. Get on the track. I
ran, I ran, tracking throughthe shot put, high jumped. Yeah.
(30:27):
Good. Good career decision gooder absolutely. As you mentioned the first team
Class A champions thirty five thirty sevenyears with Michigan State Champions out of the
city of Detroit for the Persian naturallythe dough Boys the nickname, of course,
they were the Doe Boys General personand person with General Pershing nineteen sixty
(30:49):
seven. You mentioned Dave Bing,and I know when you went in the
Hall of Fame, you you thinkDave Bing, you singled him out.
But the Pistons, the Pistons,the NBA team, they used to come
and scrimmage and practice with your highschool basketball team. That's unbelievable, unbelievable.
And Dave would bring him over andwe were scrimmaging against the Pistons and
(31:11):
we would always say, Franklin Mulely, why would he drink so much before
practice? Because he had a fewbeers and you can smell it on him.
And we were like, I guesswhen we get to the pros or
get be like this, guys,we're going to have a brew a shaper
you know, Detroit On, youknow. And it was just so wonderful
(31:33):
playing against Eddie Miles, John Tresvan, all those guys doing high school and
we just playing man and enjoy ourselves. And Dave is pointing out every little
thing I was doing wrong and howyou got to carry yourself, and you
know, don't be with this person. Don't be over here, because you
got a good opportunity to make itto the pros. You got to go
(31:55):
through all of you, you know, your college and everything. You got
to keep your grades up, yougot to do. He was so a
mentor for me and UH and CoachRobinson once again, as you mentor,
he directed you to Trinidad State whenit didn't work out with the Tennessee I
believe you work. You did commitat one point, as you mentioned,
to go to Tennessee. Ray Mearswas the coach there. He was a
(32:15):
great another legendary coach. He musthave been the guy that recruited you.
Yeah, he and Stu Aberdeen,Uh huh, yeah, yeah, the
assistant assistant coach. But Ray wasjust such an awesome person. And I
was like, oh my god,I wanted to play so bad that the
campus was perfect. I went downand stayed all summer and was you know,
enrolled and getting ready for a schooland everything. But you know,
(32:37):
uh, the politics of basketball tookplace again in my life. En Roup
was so powerful at the time.Yeah, he was powerful, very powerful.
So that's what a shame. Youcould have been a law But you
know, if I had a stayedat Tennessee, I wouldn't have been able
to play in the Olympics because,yeah, you had to be a sophomore.
(32:58):
You had to be on a avarsity team before you could play in
the Olympics, whereas if you werejunior college. You know, they just
let everybody roll out, everybody andthey didn't think an eighteen I mean I
was the only eighteen year old,nineteen year old guy that was on the
junior college team. So then they'relike, we gotta take this young guy.
(33:21):
What Yeah, absolutely, you know, and you were the the juco
player of the year, you know, in at Trinidad State as as you
mentioned, and that gave you thatOlympic opportunity with Hank Iba. And well
before we got to Hank Ivy,we had a junior college team that was
coached by Jerry Tarkini. Oh really, yes, I did not know that.
(33:45):
That's who brought me to Albuquerque,and he was just selling everybody and
they were like, Jerry, please, you're gonna get ahead coaching job.
Come on. So Jerry was no, No, I got this kid.
This kid is phenomenal. He's goingto he's going to make the team and
he's going to be the best thingyou've seen. And everybody kept Jerry,
(34:07):
Jerry, please go away with this. This kid can't be this good.
Shame on me. I didn't lookup the Trinidad State coach, but it
was Jerry. No, he wasno. Baron Moser was the coach.
But what they did was they puttogether a junior college all start to Albuquerque
(34:28):
because you had the n C toA, you had the n I,
A military, the military, theAAU, Yes, a back and AU
was semi professional, right, that'sright. We got two guys from AAU
on that Olympic team, and wegot one from the Armed Force. Mike
Silliman was from the Armed Force.He was the captain and we had Calvin
(34:52):
follow and uh Jim Kane played onthat team as well from AAU. So
for young people, you just foryoung people know it used to be semi
professional. And they played at whatteam Ackron Goodyear a Ackuin good Year.
There you go, good the goodYear Attire Company. There you go.
(35:12):
And another big influence from your Olympicexperience was the assistant coach to Hank Guy.
But John McClendon was a guy thatwas was another man that came into
your basketball life that had a profoundeffect down the road of course. Yep.
Yeah. And John McLendon came fromthe Lennage of Kansas where doctor the
(35:36):
Naysmith the very beginning mentor yeah,and so he mentored him all the way
up through and so then we playedat the Olympics. He was at this
big influence and then when A wassaying, well, you know, if
you're gonna leave college, we're gonnaneed to get a good coach that you
can relate to and somebody that canbe firmed with you. They reached out
the Denver and the ABA said JohnMcLendon would be the perfect guy. I
(36:00):
am again with John mclenn. JohnMcClendon would would crop up again. But
I did get some pay payola wearin those Converse in the so I got
fifteen hundred dollars. I was like, you know, forgot least you find,
(36:21):
you know, like a little changein your socks and then your shoes.
Now try out these new Converse.Oh yeah, like put them on.
Oh I can't get my foot again. Wait a minute. Oh this
is why I feel it couldn't addit to you, That's right. It
was always like some kind of likefound something. Yeah, subtle, take
(36:42):
a walk in the pock. Gofive paces and there'll be a paper bag.
They're waiting for you. There yougo exactly. You know, it's
amazing to note that once again youtalked about Harry Edwards was the driving force
with the boycott, and there wasno Luel Sinda Kareem. No one's selled
and Elvin the big ee, ElvinHayes. But because of that, your
(37:05):
Olympic team came in as an underdog. Russia was a favorite for the Olympic
gold that year, which would havebeen unprecedented. US had never lost before.
And also the Yugoslavia team finished topick the finish second right exactly.
So, I mean, you know, as far as that experience you talked
about throwing up, there's a lotof pressure on you guys, as as
(37:27):
undemanned as you were perceived to beable to uphold for the United States.
I mean, that's something I don'tthink people can understand the context of that
year. That context was like,I mean, if you don't win this
when you would be the first teamto lose in the Olympics. And that
was a driving force that was justso embedded in every day. Hank Iber,
(37:51):
Hank Iver, and John mcclennan drillededin a head, you know,
like you don't want to be thefirst. You don't want to be the
first. So we extra we workedout extra, extra hard. We had
some pretty good playoffs and it wehad Charlie Scott from the University of North
Carolina, Jojo White from the Kansaswho had lost to They had lost to
(38:13):
Texas Western in the quarter final,the finals or something like that. And
before they got to Kentucky, wehad we had guys from the University of
Michigan. We had Bill Hoskett waslike my roommate and I that's another whole
story. I never lived with awhite person. Never. I never had
(38:36):
an idea that I would be livingin a room with the white person.
So Bill Hoskett walked me through thewhole process really strong. Because I was
at the Olympics and you got tohave a roommate. My roommate was Bill
Hoskett, and he just he justmade me so comfortable. And he was
an older gentleman for the basketball teambecause he was like, I think a
(38:57):
junior and I was a freshman.So he just freshman on his arm,
young teaching the rules, you teachthis. And also it was just it
was not black and white, butit was like brotherhood. And he taught
me a lot there because I hadbeen beaten down in Mississippi, so I
didn't know how to behave. ButBill Hoskin was my guy. Other than
the women on Woodwood Avenue that helpedyou out. Then Bill was the next
(39:21):
one. Yeah, to help youout as far as did decorum around the
white people anyway, to help youout exactly, but to explain it,
to explain it to the audience ofWoodward Avenue, Twelfth Avenue a little bit,
so you so that I know that'sright. You would right in the
heart of Detroit, right, yeah. And then Twelfth Avenue is where the
(39:43):
ladies of the night would stroll,so so we would get down there.
And because we was all virgins,so you know, you go and look
at the girls and walk up andthey came here, baby, come here,
come here, I got something foryou. And you were like,
oh god, no, yep,I do that over careers. Over my
life is ruin. Have to goto church twice on Sunday at all,
(40:06):
you know what I mean, sitthrough two servants. That's right. That.
As far as the you're the Olympicrun, it turned out to be
a brilliant run and not bad forthe youngest player ever. As you mentioned,
in the Olympics, you set arecord that stood for over forty years
with one hundred and forty five points. You shot seventy two and in that
(40:27):
gold medal game, which turned outto be Yugoslavia upsetting Russia. Yeah,
you dropped twenty four in that goldmedal game against against Yugoslavia. So that
Olympic experience. Suddenly the name SpencerHaywood now was known because of out of
nowhere, literally everybody in the nationknew the name Spencer Heywood. Who is
this kid, Spencer heywould he justled them to the gold medal? Yeah,
(40:49):
unbelievable, And colleges with clamoring,you know, come on, we
need you to come here. AndI thought, for a second, maybe
I'll go out to UCLA because Ialways loved John Wooten. But Will was
like, you're gonna go play withKareem? What kind of fairness is that
you gotta you know, you gottahave you create your own. And I
(41:10):
got a pretty good place in mindthat University of Detroit is going to be
a place to happen, you know, to make to make it happen.
And so we got together with GovernorRomney, uh not mit Mitt's father George,
and Mayor Kavanaugh and they were like, you know, we need you
(41:32):
to come home, son, Weneed you to uplift this city. We
have had a riot here. Thewhole city basically burned down, and we're
looking at great things with the Tigersthis year. We got like Denny,
you know, Denny mcclains, gotall these guys, they are ready,
You're gonna be part of a movement. And in the last caveat we're going
(41:57):
to higher hire Will Robinson. It'syour coach, and right, yeah,
I was like, hey, I'myour guy, absolutely absolutely, and that
would have been that would have madehim at that time the first African American
Division one head basketball coach. Andthey did commit to that deal Spencer at
the time, right, they did, but da renegue later once they got
(42:21):
me. But credible thing. Butthat was going on under the belly of
it. Ralph Simpson was going toleave Michigan State come back with US over
the University of Detroit. George Gervinwas going to play with us coming up.
We had been talking to him becauseI coached him when he was fifteen.
We had Barbara Hawkins, We hada lineup of players that were just
(42:45):
floating around Detroit looking for a placeto play. I mean, these are
pros. Yeah, we were goingto build this big powerhouse franchise there known
as the University of Detroit. Butthey just blew it all because of race.
And it just scares me again thatrace thing. It just terrible,
(43:05):
terrible. This always get crazy.I'm like wow. And because of that,
it put you in a position where, obviously disillusioned, you really saw
the hypocrisy of college athletics, ifyou will, the reality as opposed to
what is the public presentation of collegeathletics. And because of your family situation
(43:28):
and the fact that you know yourmom was still back in Mississippi picking cotton
and two dollars a day sun signup to sundown, twelve hours, not
getting any younger, and once againwith nine siblings, this prompted you to
think the unthinkable, and that wasabout playing professionally. And once again,
(43:52):
the good comma of the time wasthere was a rival basketball league called the
ABA that might present an alternative foryou to the NBA and their rule.
Yeah, and the salesperson or theperson who was acting like commissioner, I
don't know what he was, MikeStorm, Mike Hannah Storm's father from Yes
(44:15):
Man. He was like, youknow, you need to be here.
We're going to undercut the NBA intheir draft we're gonna have a rule called
the hardship, and any player that'shaving a hardship, who is having problems
at our university, we're gonna takethem over here. And you could be
the first one to do it.And if you get out there and you
(44:37):
get us seven points maybe in fiverebounds a game, this gamut would work.
So I got out there and gotthirty points a game in twenty rebounding,
was the MVP Rookie of the Year, leading scorer, leading the rebounder,
MVP of the All Star Game,and it's like, wait a minute,
(44:59):
So here comes you. You're servingeverybody else, like, hey,
I want to go play, Andso a whole line of people followed me
there. But then the Denver theydid something really stupid. They gave me
a contract for one point nine milliondollars, making me the highest paid player
in professional basketball, so they said, and the contract was so fraudulent that
(45:23):
they Yeah, what happened was theysaid, this contract is going to read.
After we had a lawyer, lRoss, we came in and read
the contract because I didn't read it. I was just playing basketball. I
kid at the time. I wasnineteen years old. Man, I just
want the ball. I didn't knowthey would do something so cruel. But
(45:43):
what they did is they gave mea contract for at one point nine that
one point five of at one pointnine would be derived from this ten thousand
dollars into a dog off plan onWall Street and Wall Street money would generate
one point five which you could onlytouch when you're aged fifty to age seventy
(46:08):
oh man, and we would haveto end into the fine print on the
contract, you would have to beemployed by Ringsby truck Line to receive that
money. Wow. So r Rosslooked at the contract and then we passed
(46:29):
it on to Sam Schumann. Hesaid, a bountch o crap. And
he's a Brooklyn guy, a bunchof crap, but kind of crap as
this r Ross. You know he'sfrom New York. So he's like,
no, this is crazy. SoI got these uish guys. They like
pounding the table and doing things.Let's go back in here and get this
contract straight now. So we runback in there to the owners. Hey,
(46:53):
don JW we want to get thisstraight. I want you to introduce
you to my lawyer. Had alawyer. What is wrong with you?
How could you do such a thing. Could you do? Such a horrible
thing? So er Ross started talkingabout, well, you know, i'll
tell you what. We're going towant you to honor the contract. And
(47:15):
they looked at Al and I andsaid, listen, you get your nigga
ass out of here and take thatdamned you lawyer with you. I ain't
doing nothing. I'm not changing nothing, oh boy. And then we said,
yeah, it's gonna be a fight, because at the same time we
had talked to Sam Schumann. Hesaid, well, look, you're only
(47:37):
gonna have to set out one yearand then I'm gonna fight to have you
as a draft. But if pushcome to shove, i'm gonna play you
this year. Yeah, and I'mgonna pay you. So that's when the
drama began. And once he onceI signed with Seattle, they honored the
contract that was given to me inDenver and straight our cash, you know.
(47:59):
And and I got out on thefloor and I'm like, oh,
yeah, I'm gonna be playing tonight, baby, and lord and behold the
announcer come on, like, ladiesand gentlemen, we have an illegal player
on the floor. Number twenty four. Oh yeah, that's me, that's
right. Let me check my number. Yea check my number could be down
(48:22):
on the other end. Now Idon't know who this illegal player, and
we must we have an injunction fromfrom the next ten days and ten games
here, and they escorted me offthe floor into the locker room. I
chained clothes, sit on the busand just cried like a baby, like
they ain't gonna let me play.And then ten days, ten games later,
(48:43):
we get an injunction to play.And when we get a junk to
play, they were like, ladiesand gentlemen, this game is played under
protests because of that illegal player numbertwenty four. And then the other team
would walk down into their locker roomand leave me up there with our team,
the Sonics, and Lenny was like, they're going to come back up,
(49:04):
just wait it out and throwing things, Hey, go back to college.
You tearing up the university system.You in the names that they were
calling me in Mississippi. Yeah,having flashbacks now, yeah yeah yeah.
And so eventually they would come upand we would play the game, but
it was all under protests, andI played next ten games on the protest.
(49:27):
Then they were getting in junction againand setting me down again. For
another ten games and then lord andbehold that had went through the districts and
through the courts, and we werelike at Federal Court and then the next
step was, We're going to moveon to the Supreme Court. And I'm
looking at man, all these lawyers. We got, uh, Pat Brown
(49:49):
from Jerry Brown's father, from thegovernor of former governor of California, Frank
Roffman, who did all free agencyfor baseball. H and we had Jack
Quinn. All of this legal teamwas just incredible. And of course we
had our Ross, my attorney,and we were battling. Man. It
was like awesome battling and battling.So we got to the Supreme Court.
(50:13):
I didn't appear because I was playing. And so the case went before the
Supreme Court, and the Supreme Courtsays, yeah, we're gonna We're gonna
grant him the rights to play underthe Sherman Anti Trust Act. And because
you can't, you know, differentfrom making a living, and uh,
(50:35):
that's when I won the case.But I had because the NBA had told
all of the owners had told theirplayers, the Oscar Robertson and the Wilts
and Jerry West and all, I'lltell you one thing, if this guy
win this case, you guys aregoing to be out on the back end
because you're gonna get all these youngplayers coming into the league. They don't
(50:57):
know ship, they don't know nothing, so you're going to be pushed out.
And so they didn't supportort me,you know, at a union and
then lo and behold Kareem h Iwalked down on the floor and he gave
me a big huse. He said, let's play ball, man, and
then everybody came up and let's wegot in there on and we played the
rest of the season. I gotin thirty thirty games that year. Yeah,
(51:20):
thirty three games that season. Youknow, that was that was a
burden off my back. But againeverybody looked at me differently because I sued
the league. That was you don'tdo that, and every university even though
I went to the Olympics as auniversity player and I was a college All
(51:43):
American in fact the outstanding college playerof the year, but all of that
stuff was erased and I was justthis demonic person that played basketball. Spencer.
Hey what I guessed here on thegames people play with Bernie Corbett,
Thank you to the boys, inSeattle for Todd and Key One. Thank
(52:04):
you to my executive producer Andy Bernsteinfor making it all possible, and for
everybody that makes the game's people possible, and especially for our guests today,
Spencer, Hey, it was greatspending time with him. This is Bernie
Corbett, same play. Well everyone,
Welcome everyone to our latest edition ofGames People Play. I remain Bernie Corbett,
but we do have a very specialguest with us here today. He
is an NBA champion, He's anOlympic gold medalist. He is truly a
survivor, and I would qualify himas a reluctant revolutionary. Our guest today
(00:35):
is Hof twenty fifteen, mister Spencer. Hey with Spencer, welcome, really
pleasure to be a hero with you. Bernie Spencer is our format here on
the Games People Play. All stories, as I say, have a beginning,
and you're beginning. Born in nineteenforty nine in I guess a town,
(00:57):
a corporate township of about three hundredin the Delta Country of Mississippi,
Silver City, Mississippi. Your rootsand your beginnings were rather challenging, to
say the least. Yes, itwas, And let me remind you in
the audience there was no Silver andit ain't no city. It's wrong and
(01:22):
wrong, wrong and wrong. Okay, but no, I was going in
the Delta of Mississippi. The Deltais where most of the cotton was grown
and the farming took place. Fora cotton you chopped cotton from sun up
to sundown, which is first youplanted and then you watch it pop out
(01:42):
of the ground. And then youhave to chop it because you know it's
a row of cotton and it's allthick, so you have to chop it
with a whole. You let itgrow, and then you have to picket.
And a picket is a thorn.It's a cotton is a thorn.
You reach down into the thorn,you pull it out, put it into
your sack, put it into yoursack, and then you drag that sack
(02:05):
to the next point, and thenyou pick and pull it up again.
You drag it to the next side. And by the time you get to
a certain area, your sack isfull, weighs about one hundred pounds,
and you have to put the sackon your back and you got to walk
back to the trailer. You gotto climb up on the trailer and dump
that cotton out, and you gotto weigh it and dump it out,
and then you go back into thefield. And I started off in the
(02:29):
field as a kid because when mymother had me. You don't get a
chance to as when you when yousharecropping and just indent your slavery you don't
get a chance to go and say, well, I take a month off,
I need to leave. Yeah,no, no, anyway, she
swallowed me on her back and wentback out into the field and went back
(02:52):
to work. And so my myearliest recolleation recollection was being in the cotton
field picking cotton a child or thelittle baby you know you're pulling, because
my mother would saying, you know, you can't just ride on my sack,
boy for nothing. You got tolike pick that low level of cotton.
And so you pick it as alittle kid, and you pick it.
And so I grew up picking cotton, and I thought it was the
(03:15):
worst job, the worst thing thatI could ever do, And it turned
out to be the best. Bythat, I mean by picking cotton with
both hands as a kid were leftand right, and dragging a sack,
I built up my hand and eyecoordination was good. My dragon a sack.
(03:35):
My legs were much more powerful ata ten year old level, and
I was carrying one hundred pounds onmy shoulder, ringing and bringing back.
So I developed into this this monsterof a player. But I didn't know
I was going to be a playerat the time. I was trying to
be the best cotton picker that ourcounty had ever had. You know,
(03:55):
that was my goal. And Lordand behold, I get to Detroit and
I first practiced. When everything settledin, I got adopted by a family
in Detroit, and Will Robinson,the first black coach to coach in the
NC to he hits you, wasmy guardian. So we started practicing,
and everybody was like, man,this guy don't ever get tired. Because
(04:17):
I had been working from son upto sundown, you know, working,
I mean real work, real Andso when he said, well, look
you guess what, guys, We'regonna practice real hard today and it's going
to be two and a half hours, I was sitting back like, man,
this sounds like old Robert Bruh Rabbitthrowing me into the brown pats,
(04:43):
buddy. And so so we wouldpractice and then I would like finish my
practice and then I would say tothe coach, I need another two hours
to work, and he was likefascinated by that. And so I kept
doing that and doing that, andLo and behold. By the end of
the season, when the season cameabout, no one had won the Class
A state championship from the city ofDetroit in thirty five years, and we
(05:09):
got a chance to play in thatchampionship, and we wanted and brought it
back to Detroit because Detroit Public Schoolhad been written out of it for thirty
five years. So that was justtoo awesome. And then my next stop
was to the University of Tennessee becauseI wanted to be close to my parents.
My mother she had never seen meplay. And I went down there
(05:31):
and a little bit of trouble cameup because of the fact that Adolph Rupp,
who was at Kentucky, he thoughthe should have the first black player
because he had lost to Texas Western, and for young people who watching Glory
Road kind of explained that, yeah, and so I just said no,
(05:54):
I kind of wanted to play forTennessee and I didn't want to go to
Kentucky. So I then said,well, look, why don't we just
go to a junior college. AndI ended up at a junior college in
Colorado, close to Denver, closeto Albuquerque called into Robinson according to Will
and it was three hundred and sixtymiles from Denver, four hundred and twenty
(06:18):
from Albuquerque. So I was outin no man's land and just playing basketball
and studying because I wanted to getout in a year. You have to
maintain the B average and lo andbehold. There was just rumbling about the
sixth Staate Olympics and certain guys wasn'tgoing to come. Kareem abdulje bar boycotted
the sixth Stayed Olympics. The samething happened with Alvin Hayes and Wesley Unsale
(06:43):
if they hadn't signed their professional contract, because back then you couldn't play in
the Olympics unless you were strictly anamateur. So they signed their contract to
get out of the deal. Andthen they start allowing players is the first
time the last time they allowed freshmansto try out. And I went down
(07:04):
to try out and there we wereplaying against Pete Merbridge, Calvin Murphy,
Rick Mount and these guys pistol.Pete with averaging thirty forty four I think
a game rich thirty nine. CalvinMurphy was averaging thirty three. Got cut.
(07:25):
All those guys, yep, theygot cut all the whoa, what
are we doing? And then wehad Dan Issel, who you know,
I guess he this is some somesome news here because Iver, Hank Iver
and Adolph Rupp had a little rucketsgoing on, you know, between coaches.
(07:47):
That happened, so he didn't takeDan Ischel. He took him as
an alternate, and it took KenSpain from the University of Houston as our
center. And that was always akind of a sad, sore spots for
all of us. But you know, we didn't have nothing to do with
that, and so we played hard. We played hard. But yet it
(08:07):
was in nineteen sixty eight where allof this turmoil was going whether this should
be black ship boycotted completely and wewere like, what are we going to
do? We got to make astatement back home. So Tommy and John,
Tommy Smith and John Carlos, wewill put on the black glove if
(08:28):
we win our race. And GeorgeForeman said, you know, I'm gonna
I mean, I'm in Houston atthe boys Hope. I need life,
so I'm going to wave a littleAmerican flag, right, you know.
So we were all sitting around doingthat, doing our talking because you know,
at that time, all of themale athletes stayed in the same dorm,
(08:50):
in the same compound, so itwas like you just you just sit
around the lobby talking yack all dayand eating because that was our thing,
George Foreman and no table. Yep, yeah, try to kill him.
And so he got the grill,but not you. I didn't get the
grill. He's got still eating,he's got the grill. Yeah. And
(09:13):
so we ended up, you know, just going back to play. And
before we played, there was somethingthat happened kind of you know, kind
of shook us up a little bitbecause we had Jesse Ones, will Ma
Rudolph and these are the former Olympiansand we spoke to us and we were
(09:33):
like these old people, man,they don't know what the revolution is all
about, and you don't know what'sgoing on. Jess To said, hold
it you some s obs. I'lltell you something. How would you feel
if you had to run before hitler? Ah? We were like, he
(09:56):
threw the he man, oh man. And so we started twiddling with our
socks and stuff and twiddling with ouryour barmbs, you know, like,
man, he put the hitler onus. So right away we were like,
yeah, no problem, the gameis on. No big deal.
And that's when we started to reallypractice our craft and do what we're doing.
(10:18):
And so when John and Tommy andJohn Tommy Smith and John Carlos got
to understand after their race, theyput on the glove and this was like
a solidarity back home with black folksand other folks, you know. But
Ay through Brandage just escorted them out. They didn't even get a chance to
(10:39):
pick up their clothes good you knowand stuff and push them through the line.
There was a line of reporters andpeople throwing things and acting. Really
it was just so on American UHto get them out of there and put
them on a plane and ship themback to San Jose. And when they
got there, there was a wholeline of people out there. You try
(11:00):
this, they won the gold mill. They didn't even they didn't workout,
yea. So that was like thatwas the because we had that on the
big screen. You know, backthen it wasn't the big screen, but
it was the screen. And sowe saw all of that happening. And
then we got back to UH andplayed our game. And then the final
game, Howard Cosell crawl upon mebecause I was nineteen years old and I'm
(11:26):
like, you know, I'm justplaying man, I'm enjoying my life,
and I'm gonna win. We're gonnawin this gold medal. And he's you
know, I tell you something,son, if you do lose this,
you will never be You'll be likeI'll leave some much. You'll never be
happy in America. And Ali hadn'tshown his his his way at that time
(11:46):
because he had been boxing, buthe was that was his boy. So
that was this guy Ali. Sohe was always bringing Ali as an example.
And so uh, we got Igot, I got my nerves got
all shot, and Hank ivery andthe coaching staff got all mad at Howard.
Why would you do that? Youknow he was a kid. Well
(12:09):
he was nineteen. We didn't know. And so you could see me in
the final game, I make alayup and I run straight into the locker
room, threw up, came back, ran right back on the floor,
and we won the gold medal.And I was like just crying on stage
because three years before I was pickingcotton in Mississippi. For four years,
(12:35):
I was picking cotton in Mississippi fortwo dollars a day. Could not get
leave the farm. If I leftthe farm, you know, my family
members would be hurt. So itwas just chaotically say, man, how
could you come so fast and sofar, but you can in America.
And that's the beauty of our countrythat you can come from never never to
(12:56):
this top of the heat. Andthen the problem came aut well, what
are you going to do when youget to Detroit. Detroit don't like you
because you didn't make a protest.So we arrived in Detroit Metropolitan Airport and
there was thousands of people out therewaiting for us and cheering for me and
Will and I was like just boilingover with tears, and I said,
Wow, this is so beautiful.The Olympics sixty eight. We got the
(13:20):
fifth anniversary coming up this year Tokyo. It's just so awesome. So that's
the American story. And I'll gointo the the wars of the hardship case.
Well, I got, I gotta, I just gotta go back to
Mississippi here for a moment, justto put it in context, you never
(13:41):
knew your dad. You were actuallyborn three months premature, and your dad
passed away very suddenly of a heartattach just three weeks before you were born.
Thank thank god you had older siblingsto mentor you, because what a
terrible thing for your spencer. Rightfrom the beginning. You never knew your
father never knew. We never hadto love. But you know, my
(14:01):
mom was like just overwhelmed with loveeven though we had. It was the
eighth child, you know, soshe spent a lot of time with me,
a lot of love with me.And it was always told by the
Southsayers of Civil City that boy isa special boy, He's something special.
(14:22):
And so my mother kind of likebought into the idea. Yeah he is,
yeah, sure, So she boughtinto it. And it was pretty
cool because I got extra cookies,I got little things that my other brothers
and stuff. And if you lookat a picture of me when I was
twelve years old, I was takingthe photo for the school and my brother
(14:46):
Andrew missed out on his photo shoot. So he decided, well, I
just blackened your eyes. So Ipunched me in there. I got a
big black eye on my photo shoot. I said, classic civil rivalry here.
Jeez. He could have just gonelike this and that would have got
the point across. He could havegiven you the money is and steady punching
(15:09):
the punch in the eye. I'llgo you, I'll get you good.
I mess up your photo, thatwill definitely will mess it up, and
just amazing when you talk about theOlympics and three years removed from picking cotton,
you're an Olympic champion, and theJim Crow South post World War Two
(15:30):
that you experienced to go from unacceptedas as an American in the South in
terms of segregation to now being anAmerican hero. I mean the stories about
you being shot at on the walkingaround in Mississippi at night, how you
were treated working at the country clubthat you worked at at the time.
That's an amazing phenomenon in itself thatnow all of a sudden, here you
(15:54):
are representing America, America as anOlympic hero and are receiving a gold medal.
Incredible in its highest form, youknow, the top. So you
know. So I know, withall of the politics and all of the
stuff that's going on nowadays, andwe see all of the separations between us
(16:15):
and them or who them and usor high everd iss, I still say
that this country is going to cometogether. As I saw it in the
sixty eight Olympics, and I sawit after the riots in Detroit. I
saw it after the riots in CaliforniaNewark. So I saw this. We
(16:37):
hit rock bottom now and so we'regoing to like rise up like this phoenix.
We're going to be something so specialas a country. And I'm just
happy to be a part of thegrowth that's going to take place because it's
going to be so special. Talkingabout the early time of basketball career,
truth be told, not only didyou not play on a court, I
(16:57):
believe until junior high, but youdidn't have a basketball. Your mother made
a basketball for you and your brothers. Yeah, well we had We had
no basketball, and we had nocourt, and we had no rim.
Other than that, everything yet everything, And so she says, well,
(17:18):
we don't have no money, baby, to buy no basketball. Now.
That's that's five dollars that we can'tafford at all. And so no one
was throwing out basketball in the garbagedump, which we would always play in
that dump, trying to find thingsbicycles, basketball or whatever, but nobody
was throwing them out. So shesaid, I'll make you a basketball.
(17:40):
How are you gonna make a basketballat bounce? No, it won't be
bouncy, but we're gonna put sackcotton in this ball and put it in
a croker sac or you we wouldcall a potato sack and stitch it up,
and it's a round ball, andyou'd say to each other one two,
(18:00):
and you make the pass or youmake the shot. And so we
were just, oh, this isgreat. And then we put a bell
rim on a backboard. We madea backboard and we put this big bell
rim on it. And this thingwas like, you couldn't miss. You
could not miss because the ball wouldhit up there and just stuck. And
(18:21):
so unless you were my brother Andrew, and then you got three bounces,
you got an extra one. Yougot an extra one because he was cheating.
And so we played basketball and playedbasketball, and Lord and behold,
one day somebody threw one in thegarbage and we watched that ball for days.
(18:41):
We watched that baby all put alittle patch on it, blew that
baby up gently. We didn't wantto blow the patch off, and boy
and they started bouncing. We waslike, oh heaven, we got a
real ball. And then the nextthing we were scouring for was a basketball
hoop. And then my mother brokedown and all right, I'm gonna buy
(19:02):
you, you know, like sixdollars. So we got that hoop up,
and man, we had our travelingshow we just we would travel from
county to county, walking all daylong to play basketball, carrying our backboard
and I patched up basketball to playdifferent kids in different communities, and that's
(19:22):
how we started playing. That's mylove for the game. My first love
was not basketball. It was golf. Can you believe it? Working at
the country club. You working atthe country club developed the love for golf.
Really, yeah. Yeah. Yourfirst you know, once again,
is the people that came into yourlife. The first one that noticed you.
(19:44):
Of course, you were what sixsix at age thirteen. Fellow by
the name of Charles Wilson who happenedto be Wilson eleven time Mississippi Coach of
the Year, and he first noticedyou before you did come north, and
that was the first time you gotto play in I think junior high was
the first time he actually played ona court in the gym. Yeah,
in the gym, real real court. And you know, I wasn't.
(20:04):
What happened was I grew so fastthat I grew out of my body.
And so he says, well,I'm not gonna cut you from the team.
I'm gonna put you on the team. But we only have thirteen uniforms,
and you gotta work. You haveto wear the way uniform when we
play away, I mean a homeuniform when we play home away and your
(20:26):
home uniform. It's like the rightvice versa. So I had on a
yellow uniform or a white uniform,and everyone else had on a gold uniform
and I had on a white one, or they had on a white one
and I had on a gold.And that last maybe half a year,
and then you know, one guygot in trouble, and then I ended
up just playing on the team andjoined and he just he was just in
(20:52):
engross in the idea that I justlove to play. I didn't. I
don't know where I got it from. It was just like it was just
a love thing, you know.I love to play. And I would
stay after school. He would driveme back home, back seven miles back
down to Silvil City where there's noold Silver and it ain't no city in
the right. So they would driveme back and forth, and I developed
(21:18):
so fast, and everything happened.My first basket was in the wrong basket.
Of course, I was so excited. I was so excited that he
started me because we wanted a center. Got put in jail. So he
started me and I was like,oh, I'm starting, and I was
like all the people in the standsand everybody, you know, like the
(21:41):
people from the cotton fields was there, and I was like, oh man,
my nerves are bad. So Igot the tip and the guy passed
me the ball. I'm like,why are you passing me the ball?
And I was like oh. Itook off and I was dribbling and I
went down, made a perfect layer, perfect form, boom into the wrong
basket. My sister was sitting inthe stand. Oh, he's such an
(22:07):
idiot. But I was so happyto get on the floor. I shook
that off right away and ended upat fifteen points and ten rebounds. So
and everybody in school the next daywas like, yeah, tall Man can
play with the little head. Youknow tall Man. They knew he got
game very early. And you tookthat game. You did have relatives that
(22:33):
had migrated north saved up seventeen dollarsbusfair first to Chicago. But when you
got to Chicago, you realize thisisn't much better than Mississippi. So it
was the same as Mississippi, aboutthe same. It's like, this isn't
much of an improvement. So thankfullyyou had another opportunity knocking in Detroit with
your brother Leroy. Yeah, mybrother Leroy, he was a student at
(22:56):
Bowling Green. Let me give youthe pair of between my brothers in Chicago.
My brother's in Chicago. They werelike, had on these jelly looking
suits and stuff and these shiny lookingshoes, and they drink heavily and they
partied. They worked hard, butthey on the weekend they were like into
(23:18):
it. And my brother came overfrom the university Bowling Green State University to
see us and visit with his family. And I'm looking at him, and
I'm looking at that. What aredifference? And he is playing at a
major university Division one. So I'mlike, this guy I want to follow.
So he saw me. We wentout and played together and played together,
(23:41):
just pick up one on one andstuff. And he came back and
he said, hey, you gotto pack up his guest stuff. And
I was like, I'm going withyou. He said, yeah, you're
going with me. So I putall my stuff in a ten pound bag,
you know, the paper bag,because I only had one pair of
pants, two shirts, and someunderwear. And I was on my way
(24:02):
and we got to get down tobowling Green State University, and from there
he brought me into Detroit to playat the fame Krunk outdoor courts. You
know the boxing. Yeah, yeah, outside was basketball and tennis and baseball,
et cetera. And so I gota chance to play against all of
the high school players on a highschool tournament. And I just ran all
(24:26):
day long and killed them guys.And I had a hole in my gym
shoe, and I was like,maybe they gonna give me a pair of
the brand new Converts because mine hadcardboard in the bottle, and lo and
behold the next game they came inand we were playing, getting ready to
play against Cassie Russell, Bill Buntsand all of those college players. Yeah,
(24:49):
young boy, you got some newshoes here. Whoa, I got
some new shoes that fit up downSouth. You know your shoes all,
you know, because then they haveexcizes. So I got those shoes and
put those shoes on. I feltlike, oh, I died and went
to heaven. And then I wasasking in the locker room because the other
(25:11):
players were like, I don't wantto play in those shoes. I don't
want to play in no converts.I want to play in the DDAs.
I want to play in you know, pro kids. I don't want to
play in that mess. So Iwas like saying, oh, can you
put them all over in the cornerthere, because I know a lot of
my friends in Civil City, Mississippi, they don't have shoes. My brothers,
sure, they don't have shoes.They play. So I gathered up
(25:33):
the shoes and had my stuff alltucked in and had a great game.
And then they ended up letting meplay against the pros Dave Bing and and
all of those guys. And Idid real well there and had fun.
And that's when the family decided toadopt me and raise me, and lo
and behold when I get to theuniform over to Persian High School. I
was lacking in education because they shutdown the schools in Mississippi to do harvest,
(26:00):
do planting and so on, soyou're far behind. And I met
this great genius, doctor Wayne Dyer. And doctor Wayne Dyer really yeah.
He took over my life and walkedme through study programs, everything and self
esteem because everything I did at thatpoint, I was always my head was
(26:21):
down because you eyeb all the personin the Mississippi punchure in the phrase a
white person, you know, likewalk around like that. So he taught
me how to you know, everythingis chin up, chin out, and
then he would drop me off inBirmingham, Michigan, and I would have
to stay up there and I wouldsit at this bus stop and these older
(26:42):
white ladies and Jewish lady would alwayscome every day and I'm sitting there.
We just talking all the time.And then we walked down the street down
Woodward, and they were talking,We're gonna help teach you boy. We're
gonna make you a genteel, agenteel gentleman. So we were walking,
(27:03):
we were talking. There was correctingme. You said it wrong. You
can't say words like that. Yougotta say it like this property. Fll
in love with them. And Iwould look forward to that every you know,
every other day whenever we got upthere. I just looked so forward
to that. And then sometime theywere like, let me go in the
restaurant. Missus Bell would say,don't you go in there, order no
(27:29):
steak? Now, you get yourselfnow with be happy. I solely wanted
to have, like, man,give me this RIBI that's right, make
the most of the opportunity. Soso many people, white and black,
a part of my life made it. This made me who I am.
You mentioned the family that you livewith, James and Ida Bell and Will
(27:53):
Will Robinson the coach, and justI was just fascinated by doing some research
on Will Robinson. Remember of sevenHall of Fames. First Black. We'll
get to that in the moment.About he was the first black Division one
head coach. He should have beenabout a year or two sooner. We'll
talk about that. Was on hold, we'll talk that's right, we'll talk
(28:15):
about that in a minute. Butwas a scout for the Detroit Pistons for
twenty eight years. He found JoeDumiers and Dennis Rodman. He was a
scout for the Detroit Lions for twentytwo years. He found two Hall of
Famers, Charlie Sanders and Lemboni.And he was the first black high school
coach in Michigan. And uh,I'm going to make the understatement that I've
(28:36):
made on this program. I don'tthink I've ever made a bigger understatement than
this. You had some pretty goodathletes on that high school basketball team,
Spencer. Five guys that played inthree professional sports. Are you kidding me?
On? Unbelievable? Unbelievable, Ohmy goodness, what was that?
That experience you had? Glenn Dowdyand Paul Seal played for bo Sham Becker
(29:00):
played in the NFL. Yeah,you had Ralph Simpson who played ten years,
kind of followed you to the DenverNights a year later but played in
the NBA. And then Marvin Lane, who built a lejoy of the was
the Detroit Tigers scouting later that GM. He said he was the best athlete
of the bunch. He was thequarterback on the football team, and he
was your point guard and he playedMajor League Baseball baseball. Unbelievable on one
(29:22):
high school on one team. Itshould be in ESPN thirty for thirty,
man for thirty right there, youknow, one team, Like how do
you do this? But Will wassuch a you know, you had to
play two sports back then. AndI was a track man. I still
loved because I used to run inMississippi trying to get to school on time
(29:44):
and stuff. So I ran crosscountry just just running. And so when
I got to Detroit right away hesaid, well, you know, you
got to have another sport, andI really wanted to play tity end in
football, so I did go outto get a few catches in and doing
that period, we was doing alittle scrimmage, so I went across the
middle of the linebacker came and metme at the point. He said hello,
(30:07):
and I said, yeah, Idon't think I want to play this.
I called up the ball. Icoughed the ball. Will Robinson with
nuts and these Tellerson you you,I told you you're going to mess up
the state championship messing around with thisstuff. Get on the track. I
ran, I ran, tracking throughthe shot put, high jumped. Yeah.
(30:27):
Good. Good career decision gooder absolutely. As you mentioned the first team
Class A champions thirty five thirty sevenyears with Michigan State Champions out of the
city of Detroit for the Persian naturallythe dough Boys the nickname, of course,
they were the Doe Boys General personand person with General Pershing nineteen sixty
(30:49):
seven. You mentioned Dave Bing,and I know when you went in the
Hall of Fame, you you thinkDave Bing, you singled him out.
But the Pistons, the Pistons,the NBA team, they used to come
and scrimmage and practice with your highschool basketball team. That's unbelievable, unbelievable.
And Dave would bring him over andwe were scrimmaging against the Pistons and
(31:11):
we would always say, Franklin Mulely, why would he drink so much before
practice? Because he had a fewbeers and you can smell it on him.
And we were like, I guesswhen we get to the pros or
get be like this, guys,we're going to have a brew a shaper
you know, Detroit On, youknow. And it was just so wonderful
(31:33):
playing against Eddie Miles, John Tresvan, all those guys doing high school and
we just playing man and enjoy ourselves. And Dave is pointing out every little
thing I was doing wrong and howyou got to carry yourself, and you
know, don't be with this person. Don't be over here, because you
got a good opportunity to make itto the pros. You got to go
(31:55):
through all of you, you know, your college and everything. You got
to keep your grades up, yougot to do. He was so a
mentor for me and UH and CoachRobinson once again, as you mentor,
he directed you to Trinidad State whenit didn't work out with the Tennessee I
believe you work. You did commitat one point, as you mentioned,
to go to Tennessee. Ray Mearswas the coach there. He was a
(32:15):
great another legendary coach. He musthave been the guy that recruited you.
Yeah, he and Stu Aberdeen,Uh huh, yeah, yeah, the
assistant assistant coach. But Ray wasjust such an awesome person. And I
was like, oh my god,I wanted to play so bad that the
campus was perfect. I went downand stayed all summer and was you know,
enrolled and getting ready for a schooland everything. But you know,
(32:37):
uh, the politics of basketball tookplace again in my life. En Roup
was so powerful at the time.Yeah, he was powerful, very powerful.
So that's what a shame. Youcould have been a law But you
know, if I had a stayedat Tennessee, I wouldn't have been able
to play in the Olympics because,yeah, you had to be a sophomore.
(32:58):
You had to be on a avarsity team before you could play in
the Olympics, whereas if you werejunior college. You know, they just
let everybody roll out, everybody andthey didn't think an eighteen I mean I
was the only eighteen year old,nineteen year old guy that was on the
junior college team. So then they'relike, we gotta take this young guy.
(33:21):
What Yeah, absolutely, you know, and you were the the juco
player of the year, you know, in at Trinidad State as as you
mentioned, and that gave you thatOlympic opportunity with Hank Iba. And well
before we got to Hank Ivy,we had a junior college team that was
coached by Jerry Tarkini. Oh really, yes, I did not know that.
(33:45):
That's who brought me to Albuquerque,and he was just selling everybody and
they were like, Jerry, please, you're gonna get ahead coaching job.
Come on. So Jerry was no, No, I got this kid.
This kid is phenomenal. He's goingto he's going to make the team and
he's going to be the best thingyou've seen. And everybody kept Jerry,
(34:07):
Jerry, please go away with this. This kid can't be this good.
Shame on me. I didn't lookup the Trinidad State coach, but it
was Jerry. No, he wasno. Baron Moser was the coach.
But what they did was they puttogether a junior college all start to Albuquerque
(34:28):
because you had the n C toA, you had the n I,
A military, the military, theAAU, Yes, a back and AU
was semi professional, right, that'sright. We got two guys from AAU
on that Olympic team, and wegot one from the Armed Force. Mike
Silliman was from the Armed Force.He was the captain and we had Calvin
(34:52):
follow and uh Jim Kane played onthat team as well from AAU. So
for young people, you just foryoung people know it used to be semi
professional. And they played at whatteam Ackron Goodyear a Ackuin good Year.
There you go, good the goodYear Attire Company. There you go.
(35:12):
And another big influence from your Olympicexperience was the assistant coach to Hank Guy.
But John McClendon was a guy thatwas was another man that came into
your basketball life that had a profoundeffect down the road of course. Yep.
Yeah. And John McLendon came fromthe Lennage of Kansas where doctor the
(35:36):
Naysmith the very beginning mentor yeah,and so he mentored him all the way
up through and so then we playedat the Olympics. He was at this
big influence and then when A wassaying, well, you know, if
you're gonna leave college, we're gonnaneed to get a good coach that you
can relate to and somebody that canbe firmed with you. They reached out
the Denver and the ABA said JohnMcLendon would be the perfect guy. I
(36:00):
am again with John mclenn. JohnMcClendon would would crop up again. But
I did get some pay payola wearin those Converse in the so I got
fifteen hundred dollars. I was like, you know, forgot least you find,
(36:21):
you know, like a little changein your socks and then your shoes.
Now try out these new Converse.Oh yeah, like put them on.
Oh I can't get my foot again. Wait a minute. Oh this
is why I feel it couldn't addit to you, That's right. It
was always like some kind of likefound something. Yeah, subtle, take
(36:42):
a walk in the pock. Gofive paces and there'll be a paper bag.
They're waiting for you. There yougo exactly. You know, it's
amazing to note that once again youtalked about Harry Edwards was the driving force
with the boycott, and there wasno Luel Sinda Kareem. No one's selled
and Elvin the big ee, ElvinHayes. But because of that, your
(37:05):
Olympic team came in as an underdog. Russia was a favorite for the Olympic
gold that year, which would havebeen unprecedented. US had never lost before.
And also the Yugoslavia team finished topick the finish second right exactly.
So, I mean, you know, as far as that experience you talked
about throwing up, there's a lotof pressure on you guys, as as
(37:27):
undemanned as you were perceived to beable to uphold for the United States.
I mean, that's something I don'tthink people can understand the context of that
year. That context was like,I mean, if you don't win this
when you would be the first teamto lose in the Olympics. And that
was a driving force that was justso embedded in every day. Hank Iber,
(37:51):
Hank Iver, and John mcclennan drillededin a head, you know,
like you don't want to be thefirst. You don't want to be the
first. So we extra we workedout extra, extra hard. We had
some pretty good playoffs and it wehad Charlie Scott from the University of North
Carolina, Jojo White from the Kansaswho had lost to They had lost to
(38:13):
Texas Western in the quarter final,the finals or something like that. And
before they got to Kentucky, wehad we had guys from the University of
Michigan. We had Bill Hoskett waslike my roommate and I that's another whole
story. I never lived with awhite person. Never. I never had
(38:36):
an idea that I would be livingin a room with the white person.
So Bill Hoskett walked me through thewhole process really strong. Because I was
at the Olympics and you got tohave a roommate. My roommate was Bill
Hoskett, and he just he justmade me so comfortable. And he was
an older gentleman for the basketball teambecause he was like, I think a
(38:57):
junior and I was a freshman.So he just freshman on his arm,
young teaching the rules, you teachthis. And also it was just it
was not black and white, butit was like brotherhood. And he taught
me a lot there because I hadbeen beaten down in Mississippi, so I
didn't know how to behave. ButBill Hoskin was my guy. Other than
the women on Woodwood Avenue that helpedyou out. Then Bill was the next
(39:21):
one. Yeah, to help youout as far as did decorum around the
white people anyway, to help youout exactly, but to explain it,
to explain it to the audience ofWoodward Avenue, Twelfth Avenue a little bit,
so you so that I know that'sright. You would right in the
heart of Detroit, right, yeah. And then Twelfth Avenue is where the
(39:43):
ladies of the night would stroll,so so we would get down there.
And because we was all virgins,so you know, you go and look
at the girls and walk up andthey came here, baby, come here,
come here, I got something foryou. And you were like,
oh god, no, yep,I do that over careers. Over my
life is ruin. Have to goto church twice on Sunday at all,
(40:06):
you know what I mean, sitthrough two servants. That's right. That.
As far as the you're the Olympicrun, it turned out to be
a brilliant run and not bad forthe youngest player ever. As you mentioned,
in the Olympics, you set arecord that stood for over forty years
with one hundred and forty five points. You shot seventy two and in that
(40:27):
gold medal game, which turned outto be Yugoslavia upsetting Russia. Yeah,
you dropped twenty four in that goldmedal game against against Yugoslavia. So that
Olympic experience. Suddenly the name SpencerHaywood now was known because of out of
nowhere, literally everybody in the nationknew the name Spencer Heywood. Who is
this kid, Spencer heywould he justled them to the gold medal? Yeah,
(40:49):
unbelievable, And colleges with clamoring,you know, come on, we
need you to come here. AndI thought, for a second, maybe
I'll go out to UCLA because Ialways loved John Wooten. But Will was
like, you're gonna go play withKareem? What kind of fairness is that
you gotta you know, you gottahave you create your own. And I
(41:10):
got a pretty good place in mindthat University of Detroit is going to be
a place to happen, you know, to make to make it happen.
And so we got together with GovernorRomney, uh not mit Mitt's father George,
and Mayor Kavanaugh and they were like, you know, we need you
(41:32):
to come home, son, Weneed you to uplift this city. We
have had a riot here. Thewhole city basically burned down, and we're
looking at great things with the Tigersthis year. We got like Denny,
you know, Denny mcclains, gotall these guys, they are ready,
You're gonna be part of a movement. And in the last caveat we're going
(41:57):
to higher hire Will Robinson. It'syour coach, and right, yeah,
I was like, hey, I'myour guy, absolutely absolutely, and that
would have been that would have madehim at that time the first African American
Division one head basketball coach. Andthey did commit to that deal Spencer at
the time, right, they did, but da renegue later once they got
(42:21):
me. But credible thing. Butthat was going on under the belly of
it. Ralph Simpson was going toleave Michigan State come back with US over
the University of Detroit. George Gervinwas going to play with us coming up.
We had been talking to him becauseI coached him when he was fifteen.
We had Barbara Hawkins, We hada lineup of players that were just
(42:45):
floating around Detroit looking for a placeto play. I mean, these are
pros. Yeah, we were goingto build this big powerhouse franchise there known
as the University of Detroit. Butthey just blew it all because of race.
And it just scares me again thatrace thing. It just terrible,
(43:05):
terrible. This always get crazy.I'm like wow. And because of that,
it put you in a position where, obviously disillusioned, you really saw
the hypocrisy of college athletics, ifyou will, the reality as opposed to
what is the public presentation of collegeathletics. And because of your family situation
(43:28):
and the fact that you know yourmom was still back in Mississippi picking cotton
and two dollars a day sun signup to sundown, twelve hours, not
getting any younger, and once againwith nine siblings, this prompted you to
think the unthinkable, and that wasabout playing professionally. And once again,
(43:52):
the good comma of the time wasthere was a rival basketball league called the
ABA that might present an alternative foryou to the NBA and their rule.
Yeah, and the salesperson or theperson who was acting like commissioner, I
don't know what he was, MikeStorm, Mike Hannah Storm's father from Yes
(44:15):
Man. He was like, youknow, you need to be here.
We're going to undercut the NBA intheir draft we're gonna have a rule called
the hardship, and any player that'shaving a hardship, who is having problems
at our university, we're gonna takethem over here. And you could be
the first one to do it.And if you get out there and you
(44:37):
get us seven points maybe in fiverebounds a game, this gamut would work.
So I got out there and gotthirty points a game in twenty rebounding,
was the MVP Rookie of the Year, leading scorer, leading the rebounder,
MVP of the All Star Game,and it's like, wait a minute,
(44:59):
So here comes you. You're servingeverybody else, like, hey,
I want to go play, Andso a whole line of people followed me
there. But then the Denver theydid something really stupid. They gave me
a contract for one point nine milliondollars, making me the highest paid player
in professional basketball, so they said, and the contract was so fraudulent that
(45:23):
they Yeah, what happened was theysaid, this contract is going to read.
After we had a lawyer, lRoss, we came in and read
the contract because I didn't read it. I was just playing basketball. I
kid at the time. I wasnineteen years old. Man, I just
want the ball. I didn't knowthey would do something so cruel. But
(45:43):
what they did is they gave mea contract for at one point nine that
one point five of at one pointnine would be derived from this ten thousand
dollars into a dog off plan onWall Street and Wall Street money would generate
one point five which you could onlytouch when you're aged fifty to age seventy
(46:08):
oh man, and we would haveto end into the fine print on the
contract, you would have to beemployed by Ringsby truck Line to receive that
money. Wow. So r Rosslooked at the contract and then we passed
(46:29):
it on to Sam Schumann. Hesaid, a bountch o crap. And
he's a Brooklyn guy, a bunchof crap, but kind of crap as
this r Ross. You know he'sfrom New York. So he's like,
no, this is crazy. SoI got these uish guys. They like
pounding the table and doing things.Let's go back in here and get this
contract straight now. So we runback in there to the owners. Hey,
(46:53):
don JW we want to get thisstraight. I want you to introduce
you to my lawyer. Had alawyer. What is wrong with you?
How could you do such a thing. Could you do? Such a horrible
thing? So er Ross started talkingabout, well, you know, i'll
tell you what. We're going towant you to honor the contract. And
(47:15):
they looked at Al and I andsaid, listen, you get your nigga
ass out of here and take thatdamned you lawyer with you. I ain't
doing nothing. I'm not changing nothing, oh boy. And then we said,
yeah, it's gonna be a fight, because at the same time we
had talked to Sam Schumann. Hesaid, well, look, you're only
(47:37):
gonna have to set out one yearand then I'm gonna fight to have you
as a draft. But if pushcome to shove, i'm gonna play you
this year. Yeah, and I'mgonna pay you. So that's when the
drama began. And once he onceI signed with Seattle, they honored the
contract that was given to me inDenver and straight our cash, you know.
(47:59):
And and I got out on thefloor and I'm like, oh,
yeah, I'm gonna be playing tonight, baby, and lord and behold the
announcer come on, like, ladiesand gentlemen, we have an illegal player
on the floor. Number twenty four. Oh yeah, that's me, that's
right. Let me check my number. Yea check my number could be down
(48:22):
on the other end. Now Idon't know who this illegal player, and
we must we have an injunction fromfrom the next ten days and ten games
here, and they escorted me offthe floor into the locker room. I
chained clothes, sit on the busand just cried like a baby, like
they ain't gonna let me play.And then ten days, ten games later,
(48:43):
we get an injunction to play.And when we get a junk to
play, they were like, ladiesand gentlemen, this game is played under
protests because of that illegal player numbertwenty four. And then the other team
would walk down into their locker roomand leave me up there with our team,
the Sonics, and Lenny was like, they're going to come back up,
(49:04):
just wait it out and throwing things, Hey, go back to college.
You tearing up the university system.You in the names that they were
calling me in Mississippi. Yeah,having flashbacks now, yeah yeah yeah.
And so eventually they would come upand we would play the game, but
it was all under protests, andI played next ten games on the protest.
(49:27):
Then they were getting in junction againand setting me down again. For
another ten games and then lord andbehold that had went through the districts and
through the courts, and we werelike at Federal Court and then the next
step was, We're going to moveon to the Supreme Court. And I'm
looking at man, all these lawyers. We got, uh, Pat Brown
(49:49):
from Jerry Brown's father, from thegovernor of former governor of California, Frank
Roffman, who did all free agencyfor baseball. H and we had Jack
Quinn. All of this legal teamwas just incredible. And of course we
had our Ross, my attorney,and we were battling. Man. It
was like awesome battling and battling.So we got to the Supreme Court.
(50:13):
I didn't appear because I was playing. And so the case went before the
Supreme Court, and the Supreme Courtsays, yeah, we're gonna We're gonna
grant him the rights to play underthe Sherman Anti Trust Act. And because
you can't, you know, differentfrom making a living, and uh,
(50:35):
that's when I won the case.But I had because the NBA had told
all of the owners had told theirplayers, the Oscar Robertson and the Wilts
and Jerry West and all, I'lltell you one thing, if this guy
win this case, you guys aregoing to be out on the back end
because you're gonna get all these youngplayers coming into the league. They don't
(50:57):
know ship, they don't know nothing, so you're going to be pushed out.
And so they didn't supportort me,you know, at a union and
then lo and behold Kareem h Iwalked down on the floor and he gave
me a big huse. He said, let's play ball, man, and
then everybody came up and let's wegot in there on and we played the
rest of the season. I gotin thirty thirty games that year. Yeah,
(51:20):
thirty three games that season. Youknow, that was that was a
burden off my back. But againeverybody looked at me differently because I sued
the league. That was you don'tdo that, and every university even though
I went to the Olympics as auniversity player and I was a college All
(51:43):
American in fact the outstanding college playerof the year, but all of that
stuff was erased and I was justthis demonic person that played basketball. Spencer.
Hey what I guessed here on thegames people play with Bernie Corbett,
Thank you to the boys, inSeattle for Todd and Key One. Thank
(52:04):
you to my executive producer Andy Bernsteinfor making it all possible, and for
everybody that makes the game's people possible, and especially for our guests today,
Spencer, Hey, it was greatspending time with him. This is Bernie
Corbett, same play. Well everyone,
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