Death Stranding 2: On the Beach spoiler discussion

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello, and welcome to side Quest. This is our video
game show here at geek Versus. I'm your host Dyl Muss,
and I have with me the guitar wielding Travis.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Now, how are you doing tonight, my friend?

Speaker 3 (00:29):
I am doing well. I'm excited we get to talk
about further, continue to talk about destranding because I always
like talking desk stranding. And yeah, no, I'm I'm excited
to hear some of your thoughts because last week there
was lots of pins and needles, lots of just okay,
not want to say too much, purposely saying vague stuff
or saying something might get you off the scent. But no,
I'm I'm very excited to be talking about this, So yeah,

(00:50):
I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, good, good set up there.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
So of course, we already did one episode on desk
stranding too, which was pretty meaty and we did talk
about a lot of things pretty deep to the store,
but I hadn't finished the actual narrative yet rolled credits,
and I now have, so we're back to do that.
There was also a second regular scheduled side Quest this
week as well, so you can go back to check
that out. You should definitely listen to that desk stranding

(01:13):
first review before this one, I think, because that'll kind
of tee up a lot of things we're gonna talk
about here. And this episode's really gonna be full on
spoilers immediately and we're gonna go deep into the story stuff,
like pretty much right away. I have a bunch of
gameplay and other random notes as well, but it's I
think mostly gonna be focused on the story.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
But I don't know. I think we'll probably both of
other things that'll come up along the way.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
And in case, because you never know how these especially
my new Apple, like the podcast apps sometimes wait updates,
the weight jumps, the things listens, like, there's times where
it'll start listening to podcasts. Didn't even shoes. That's a
whole different conversation, but just in case someone is here accidentally,
we go to only about like chapter eight for the
first episode, So if that would be a good gauge

(01:52):
if you're that or before around that area, that's where
you go, Okay, you jump in, We're awesoly if you're
done now or you don't care, but just to give
someone the preference if we do talk some story stuff,
but it's only chapter eight, so in case you've listened
this or you click on this, cause that might be
you might be scrolling down the feed ray to you know,
listen to some desk stranding and see this one first,
but think, oh, I gotta go back, so plus that
one has I think a lot more the I think

(02:14):
it's worth the journey. It's a good I imagine it's
gonna be a good one two punch, because that's kind
of It's wasn't a retrospective, but it was much because
there's lots of reflect on in the past six years
since the first of this, So definitely listen to it.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, I'm glad we did it this way too, because
I feel like if we had an episode like we
kind of did with that first review as well. But
it's like, if you have all the story stuff, all
the gameplay stuff, all the little things in between, the
talking about the game leading up to it, talking what
can we do for the sequel, it's like and it
ends up being a lot, and then I feel like
certain notes fall by the wayside, but like still things
that are fun to bring up and talk about. But
this is good to give us kind of two chances

(02:48):
to go at this, And I mean I plan I'll
continue to play this game, I guess to set up
where I'm at now, I'm just under sixty hours, so
obviously I have rolled credits on the game and then
minor spoilery.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
I guess if you're super early on.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
I've gone back and I've now got like one hundred
ccent completion of the Mexico area. I did like maxed
out all the the Preppers there, did like whatever random
things you needed to do for like any trophy stuff,
and now I'm back in Australia. Right now, I'm kind
of just finishing up the roads and high the highways
and monoails.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
That way, it'll be really easy for.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Me to plug through the rest of it, and I
think I'm gonna try and get all the trophies. We'll
see how how how annoying it is to get five
star ranking with all the Preppers, it could be quite
a lot. But right now, I'm kind of just finishing
the Chiral network things that are not mandatory for the story,
getting those highways up, and then I'm gonna just plug
through a bunch of that stuff. But yeah, I'm still
like I have I have a lot of issues with

(03:36):
this game. Honestly, and I think it's a much weaker
game overall for me than the first one, but I
still do love it. It honestly is yeah, and but
I still love that core gameplay loop where I still
like it enough that it's just a it's a good
like if I really want to zone in and focus,
there's things to do, but I can also kind of
turn my brain off and just like plug out some highways,
get some you know, get some.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Metal, pick it up, go over here, do that.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
So it's a good game to have, like I don't
have a show on the background and play too, even
though I think there is something special about really focusing
all your attention to it, even if there is a
lot of slow moments, and just living with that. So
I don't know, it's been a mixed experience for me overall.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
You had already finished the story obviously by the time
we did that first episode, and obviously you're being wary
of spoilers, But I don't know any any now that
you've had like another week or so to think on it.
Any any just overall thoughts kind of reflecting on your
time with this game so far.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
No, No, I think more. I only got about one
play session in a bit today because I went I
went hard on those that like Monday to Honestly, i'd
say until the Sunday because it beat the Sunday and
then we did them, or maybe i'd beat the Saturday
and the money we did the review. Yeah, I feel
like I had one day break. So it was one
of those where it's just like I think you're a
little over me now I think like fifty five hours,

(04:50):
but it was just like a continuous like okay, I'm going.
So it did a little bit because there's still things
I want to do and I'm like you, that's still
my plan. This week's a little busy obviously, you know,
you know got plans with you this week again, and
I got the gimmick, like and I got my dad's seventieth.
So there's gonna be some some space going on like Superman.
But my hope is before don konn comes out. I
don't know if I'll be able to. My goal is
not to get five stars on all of them before

(05:12):
don Kun comes out, because I don't mind everyonell after
don Connor what not. Like just like the first one,
this game is one that oh, I just want to
go make some deliveries. I want to go see some
scenic stuff. I'll pick it up. But I'll say, by
like twenty twenty six, i'd like to have them all
five stars. And that's one thing I will say. I
feel like the ratings gope a lot easier this time.
I felt like with the first which we kind of
talk about in general, right with the first game, that

(05:33):
almost everything seems a bit harder. It felt like those ones,
and maybe again, maybe I have to curt tell that,
because I feel like we tell those before. I gotten
a lot more like S's or the Legends of Legends,
where before a lot of more. If you're so, maybe
that's it, maybe that's just it. But it feels like
I'm getting it feels like almost every time I visit someone,
I'm going up a star. Now. Granted, I got my

(05:54):
big truck and I'm saving a lot of orders up
so when I go there, I'm dropping tons of stuff off.
But I kind of do that in person because and it's like, okay,
now I've gone up a full start. Is one, you're
improving that ranking, but then two, you're also getting some
new good gear. Because that seems to be I think
with almost there's a couple of times I've gone it
where you get nothing or it's just like a little thing.
But every time, or I'll say nine percent of the time,
when you get a it's the shippers or whatever the receivers.

(06:17):
There's a five star rating. When you get one of
those stars filled up, they give you something new or
an add on to the thing they already gave you.
So which is like we talked about a couple of
days ago. It's like what else could there be? Or
just even the add ons?

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Right, So I found this out just now as I
was going through stuff. But you know how, there's like
the the info tab where you can catch up on
the story or just like I don't know, read through
anything of the corpus right if you go there, because
there's an entry for every one of the preppers and
it tells you like, this is who the character is.
This is like they have a weird name, like the
dose or what does that mean? You can just learn that.
But at the bottom it says maybe if you max

(06:49):
out level with this person, you might get a silent sniper.
So it actually tells you sometimes exactly what you're gonna
get and obviously there might be different tiers, so there
might be multiple things, but that's telling you, I think,
what like the final level one is, or it might
just tell you something a little more ambiguous, but yeah,
it told me that for the loan. Commander told me
I'll get a silent sniper when I max that out.
So it's like I figured that would be the case

(07:10):
because there's so many times in this game when you
won't your sniper and doll mind's like that gun's really loud,
by the way, you better not shoot that. It's like, well,
I feel like that's hmpty at the fact that I
maybe get a silence version of this later. But yeah,
if you are wanting like a I just want to
read through that like ooh, that sounds like an interesting
type of gear. Maybe that would help me do the
rest of these things. And then I don't know if
it's this is the case, but I've seen some chatter

(07:31):
about this online of maybe if you play on the
highest difficulty and those star ratings might go up more
because you can get like I think, on normal difficulty
you can get like the legend rating for a delivery,
But if you play on hard or Brutal, you can
get like the Legend of Legend difficulty or rating, or
if that's what you get.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
The legend of Legend of Legend. Okay, it's called Legend
of Legend of Legend.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
Okay, so I'm not on Brutal one.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
But I don't know if that actually correlates to more
star power. But I do agree with you.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
I feel like I am getting these rankings up pretty quickly,
and I think part of that is back to this
game being kind of easy even for the most part,
and it's not really that hard to get the legend rating,
Like it's very rare that I'm getting ninety percent of
the time, I'm getting the Legend rating, and then like
everything else is maybe an A, maybe a B.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
I don't think I've ever even gone lower than A before.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
You're not getting Legends of Legend stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
I'm getting Legend of Legend of Legend.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Oh because you did go to Brutal, right, Okay, yeah,
there you go. Yeah, Okay, I was gonna say.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
But yeah, if it wasn't clear already full spoilers, We're
not going to hold back on anything now.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Of course, there's things me and you haven't discovered about
this game. Sure, but we've played through the main story
and I think we should start there and then we
can circle back to some other gameplayer or smaller things
we want to talk about. Is there a particular place
you want to go or do you want me to
kick it off with a certain character or storyline.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
You lead the way, sir. Let you you be the guide.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Let's start with neil Vanna. Neil Vanna and this character
in this whole storyline here. So this is kind of
what we talked about in that first episode of This
is kind of the equivalent of the Mad Story where
it's like it this doesn't really happen in.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
The real world at real time.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
This kind of you kind of get pulled into these
giant tar pit different sequences. You kind of get three
of these sequences, and then at the end of the game,
or I guess throughout the game when anytime you're going
to going up the elevator in the magell, and you'll
often go into these quick little visions a little that's
a raven moment where you see, you know, little flashes
of something. And then at the end of the game,
it very much is like like zooms in on the

(09:24):
eye and all they need is a fun little sound cue.
And then at the very end of the game, like
I think it's even the post credit thing is when
you get or mid credit or something, it's like the
very last thing you see, is it finally all those
little visions you've been getting, It shows you that sequence
all at once, which kind of gives you the final
reveals and all that. But this is an interesting thing
of like the story and you know, to the point

(09:44):
where I was at in the story, and obviously, good
job on you for not spoiling anything for me in
that first episode and just dropping good hints, but like
the story setting up that well, obviously there isn't an
affair that happens between Neil Vanna, who is a client
of Lucy, Sam's wife, and they you know, had like
I guess this connected pass from when there were kids
in this war zone situation. They reconnect, and then there's

(10:07):
kind of what it's hinting at is that lou is
maybe not Sam's child, that is an affair baby. But
then it's like the counter reveal of like, oh, thats
actually is not the case. It is still Sam's baby
even though this affairs still occurred. So that's kind of
this whole storyline going on there. I do have a
question about a Neil thing at the end, But I

(10:29):
think what I said of like why where this game
is lower for me than the first one. It's like
I was not very emotional for much of any of
the story of this game. Honestly, very little of it
affected me in any sort of way. And I think
a lot of it was just super convoluted or messy
or didn't make sense. And there's a couple of things.
I hopefully you can answer some questions for me, but
this was a storyline in particular that really had no

(10:50):
effect on me. I think part of it is like Lucy,
I don't really remember if she was in the first
game at all, like I had.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Mentioned, right, because she's mentioned and you do see that
photo in the first game, but the face is blurred there,
so I think they And that's what's tough for me
with this story, right, because I imagine Kajima probably thought, Okay,
I got a good track record, the first game should
be successful, so I will hopefully make a second game,
and then this is a story because or does he

(11:17):
just look at this stuff and go, you know what,
I didn't do this, didn't touch upon this, or oh
we mentioned that same kind of wife. Let's dive into that.
I don't know, and I would love to ask him that, right.
And it's always tough because I feel like some creators
will always get the oh, well, of course it was.
He was always planned, you know, I knew for the
first game when I better like That's why I'd like
to get it more like a you know, a couple
of beers, a couple of line rickeys, and did you
did you plan this the whole time?

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Because if so, Yeah, this is one of those things.
Everything to do with this story, and we won't talk
exactly about Lou, but I'll tie Lou into it a
little bit. It's stuff that I'm gonna try to pretend
doesn't really exist. It's stuff that to me kind of
brings down the first game story a little bit, not
enough to really hurt it over because that's still by itself.

(12:02):
But the Neil stuff, I I mention it because you'd
got there just kind of briefly. But I hated the
I didn't mind the origin as far as Okay, they
met as kids there in this war, and then he
abandoned her and that's where I was very confused, because
they gave him like a double motivation, right, because here's
a situation where okay, so it is, which I'll get to.
I guess I'll just say it now. I absolutely despise

(12:23):
zero out of ten hate that Lou is actually Sam's
child's I'm not a fan of that yet. I don't
like that. That's very Star Wars the of your palplatiny, Like,
not everybody needs to be connected with somebody in the
first game. It's not like somebody delivers Lou to Sam
and it's like, oh, you should look up his baby.
He by coincidence, goes on a mission and someone else

(12:43):
is using that baby and he links someone that I hate.
I've said this all he verse. I don't mind him
here and there, but for the big story plot points,
I hate a massive coincidence that that Lou just happened
to go on a mission with a guy who had
his daughter. That's just too much of a stretch for me.
I wish Kajima did that. I wish he retroactively went
back and went, oh, you know, uh, what's her name?

(13:05):
Emil has because they showed her a lot, which actually
she didn't. I thought she'd come back or play a
part in the story. She really didn't, other than she
likes the past stuff.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
But I would have still surprised because so many other
characters die in this world because of the beach.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
They really die and they're still around. Especially of deaths
feel not super meaningful, I will say.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah, which I felt like at the beginning the game,
they were like lots of times when he was dreaming,
there'd be lots of flashes of her, so I thought, oh,
she's definitely you know the flashes the title, and I
would have even taken something retroacted, like, oh she knew
that was Sam's daughter, he didn't, and she linked them
up and that's like on their journey, But it's not.
It's he just happened to bump into it, not bump
into but he got sent with another porter that had

(13:49):
his daughter and lo and behold, Like I know some
people might look it all depends on your life structure.
If you think everything happens for a reason, that to
me is just so much of a stretch. So I
don't I really.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Dislike that there, And there was a ton of that
in the story of just like oh this baby was
with this pod, and there was two babies that had
like the same pod, and this one got decommissioned and
this one was hidden away for like this.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Look at the date.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
It doesn't match up.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, And then like I think it was like the
lady at the motherhood who like looks inside of it
or something like that and sees like a serial code.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
And then it does all this stuff. It feels like
we're spinning wheels a little bit on some of those reveals.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
And none of it's none of it's really worth it
because that's the reveal, is that they're related. And that's
what's so weird to me is the first game. To me,
that whole story makes like not only myself but me
believe that Sam is attached to this BB and would
raise it and it means something when he gets at
that pod. I don't at all need him to be

(14:44):
like genetically related to this person, you know, like there's
and especially just it's I've always pitched as I've always
no one's ever done it, but I've always wanted a
great Batman movie that really features Robin because of the
adoption angle. And I feel like that's something that movies
and TV's downplay all the time as they it's just
like they have to be related. It's like, no they

(15:04):
had like that. I really wish because we'll get to
the other stuff later with el Fanning, but lots of
her stuff you could have still done without them being
related at all. They could have just still that that
path could have happened. So one, that's what I was
holding back so much, biting my tongue last week of like,
I can't wait to complain about this. So that's that's
one of the things that did not let me give
it a perfect score. But with Neil, they give them

(15:24):
two motivations of Okay, they start an affair, and I
wish we got more seams it. Like you said, with
her not being the first game, it feels very odd
to be like, oh, yeah, this is Sam's wife, but
you only see them together like twice, Like I needed
some scene to show like they were in love at
one point they had together, even her struggling if she
is having a field their like or Neil like that
idea of she's going home to Sam and she's like,

(15:46):
it does not feel like I.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Reason to care about her, Yes, be interested in her together?

Speaker 3 (15:51):
Right?

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Set up as is like she had an affair in
this game, so it's like, well immediately I'm like, ah,
well fuck.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
This lady, but like I feel like I don't.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
I'm not giving any reason to be like, oh, I
can see why Sam loved her, like this was part
of the relationship, but it's good. Maybe it was never good.
Maybe it was just like a means or the becoming situation.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
But I would like to know that if we had
so much time. And that's the thing where to me,
it's a weird double meaning where Okay, they eventually kneel
and her break things off because she is pregnant with
Sam's baby, and I get that motivation off. He's a repatriot.
They're gonna study this baby, they're gonna dissect it. Can
you say you're the father? And I felt that that's
why I don't even think they needed the affair angle.

(16:29):
I would have bought that, Hey, he as a kid
left this girl for dead. This is how he's gonna
repair hers. They're gonna lie about the affair, They're gonna
lie about everything and just say it's your baby because
I owe you a debt, because I said i'd save
you and I just left you but they give him
that motivation. They also give him that he's in love
and they had an affair and he thought the kid
was his and what it just it feels like it's
kind of like the way we talk about sometimes could

(16:51):
you know, overexplains It's like he had to over motivate
Neil to help her when really, like I could buy
the to me, just the debt thing. And it's very
similar to the ads thing. Right, They're in a facility,
you know, the wife goes down, he is a gun,
he's running like it's it's not a beat beat, but
it's it's a different shade of gray for sure.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, I feel like they also add in like a
reason why he would be incentivized to go along with
this plot is because he feels really guilty about the
work he's been doing because he too, like Sam, is
a porter, which they do a lot of this, like,
because they make so many comparisons between obviously Neil, Sam
and Higgs in this because I think Higgs also was
a porter right back in the day, and so just

(17:33):
making all sorts of We can talk about Higgs a
lot more later, of course, but yeah, I feel like
obviously this angle of he was smuggling these babies from
pregnant women down in Mexico up to the US to
create the like the BB, help create the BB program
and stuff, and like obviously he feels really guilty about
all that, so just maybe some added reason why he
would want to go along with this, But uh.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, I think I was. I was maybe. I mean,
I've talked about it so much.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
I feel like so many movies I complain about where
I'm just like the only intrigue of the twist is like, oh,
this character is the daughter, son or sister or whatever,
but it then just feel like they have like the
substance behind it, and I do feel like that is
the case here, And I guess I felt so much
like I don't know connection between Sam and the BB
that like, yeah, I guess it almost doesn't really make

(18:18):
much of a difference to me whether or it's like
actually biological or not. So yeah, I can definitely see
your side of it there. One thing I was a
little confused about with that final reveal is when when
they're in the hallway, it's like that that very final
scene and Neil's trying to get Lucy out of there,
and then the guards are like chasing him down and
they gun him down and he dies there, And obviously
that's part of the reveal, is that his body is

(18:39):
the one that causes the void out, like destroyed that
city and killed Lucy. But they made a comment of like, oh,
why is he decomposing so quick or something like that,
so it seemed like he caused a void out quicker
than is normal, Like I don't know how long it takes,
like a half an hour, an hour, you know, obviously,
if if someone dies, you have to incinerate their body
or also cause a void out.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
And I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
I didn't know if there was a story reason why
he would cause avoid it quicker than other people, other
than if these people just didn't know what was going
on or they weren't deep enough into the death stranding
like stuff happening yet that they just didn't have enough
like data points on how long it takes for someone
to void out. But did you catch that or do
you have like an idea, Like I couldn't tell if
there was like some storyline of like, oh, his soul

(19:20):
was already dead because of all the shitty things he did,
like his body.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Fait i wouldn't catch for me. It just felt like
it was a just by happenstance, like we kind of
talked about some of the people like oh and I
have dooms as well, Like it just felt like, Okay,
for some reason, he's decomposing quicker. Not sure if it's
this situation the way he died, if it's emotionally charge whatever,
but I yeah, I don't know. I couldn't. Maybe there's
an answer out there, but I didn't. I didn't get

(19:44):
it from what I saw it leaves, so mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, And I think, you know, we talked a lot
in the last episode about the gameplay sequences that come
with the neil Van and stuff, and I think all
that stuff is fun.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
I liked the third one. I still think that. Yeah,
the second one was maybe the best set.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Piece of it, but I I like the kind of
flipped gravity of that third one, although really janky. Thing
is like through I had so much stuff on me
or like in my van or my truck or whatever
my van. Of course, I'm thinking about neil Vana that
when I got sucked into the tar world, it just
dumped all my stuff on the ground, Which is that
what you were talking about how like sometimes you'll just
lose all the gear from your truck. Is that the

(20:19):
kind of situation you were talking about, or were you
hinting at something else.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
I was when you get on the bridge when you
have to it's one of the last missions, and you're
fighting like a bunch of the big red.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Mechs oh yeah, okay, and the vehicle.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
The bridge gets separated. Lost a lot of stuff there,
a lot of stuff gone. Some stuff I recovered, but
not not not as much as I once had. So
and then there's another time too.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
I don't know if dead men needed to break the
bridge in half, Like I don't know if that actually
helped stop anything.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I was a little confused about that.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
And I think that was the other time too, where
they kind of do. I think it's the mission where
it's like, oh, we'll go out there and new fire support.
Maybe it's the same mission. There's one mission after that
again where it is you maybe maybe I think it
might be right with the neil Van and think that
it might be right before or after. No, I think
it is because I dropped my stuff off of a

(21:08):
private locker because I'm like, I don't want that happen again,
took me forever to find it, and I did find it,
I kind of forgot where I pretty much.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
I don't think I've used a private locker anywhere except
for the Magellan at this point, which obviously some points
in the story maybe like when I in the Magellan
couldn't move or whatever. But but yeah, that that third sequence,
I did think it was fun, but the janky thing
about it.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Okay, So back to that store.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Now, I had so much stuff on my truck that
got just dropped on the ground as soon as I
entered the subway there.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
But thankfully I did.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Kind of foresee something like this happening, so I brought
a PCC so I could load up all my stuff
on the PCC and drag it through that level. But man,
some of the pathing on that was really rough, Like
when I was going through the upside down train cars and.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
My PCC would just get like hooked.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
On a wall and then like ride up the wall
and fall over or get like unhooked or clipped on
something like.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
It was such a mess.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Trying to bring my stuff through there was almost not
worth it, especially when like I don't just given so
many weapons in any combat sequence in this game, it
almost feels like you.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
Don't need to bring anything at all, Like you'll always
be given no, even a brutal.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Difficulty, you still get just like hey, Sam, and you're
just getting chucked stuff at your left, right and center.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah, because I finally thought that when on that bridge mission,
I was like, Okay, I'm running that stuff. But then
once I beat some mech it's like, okay, they dropped
a bunch of stuff, and I was a okay, But
that was the first time where I actually got down
to a lot of like the good stuff, because I
was using a lot of grenade launchers or like the
rocket launchers, and I was.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
A quadruple rocket launcher. Hell yeah, I think it's a badass.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, beautiful.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
So I guess we can segue that into some more
discussion on tomorrow or what do we call on her now?

Speaker 2 (22:40):
We coll her Lou, colln her tomorrow Carl Lou.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
I still call her Lou, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
So obviously you're not a big fan of like obviously
the reveal of bb Bean the daughter of Sam, But
how do you feel about like, I guess this is
kind of all tied together, of course, but when tomorrow
when you find out that tomorrow is his daughter. Is
that pretty much the same feeling or is that a
little bit different because we actually got more time with her, Like,
I don't know any difference with that one.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
That one. I guess maybe I had more time to
sit with because the second I saw el Fanning, I'm
just like, well, that's his daughter, like just the second
cause the way Lou passes it's very which I'm still
uh iffy on because they trying to a midgame twist
to me that really didn't work at all, and being
able to tie in here where our case obviously, you know,
Fragile comes to Sam, I can get you off the grid.

(23:27):
You do this one last mission and your record's wipe.
You're good to go. He does some things, he comes back,
you know Fragiles, which will talk about Fragile. She has
her own situation. And then Lou's gone, and we talked
about that how when he gets back, he's looking for
Lou and he sees like a bet version of Lou,
right like the little baby prince that goes into the pod.
And again I thought that was a beautiful scene. I'm like, Okay,
that's that's fantastic. But at the same time with it

(23:52):
with yeah, with with him like oh, what happened to Fragile,
Like there's a lot of because that happens, and they're like, man,
there's this whole segment. I feel like a couple of
missions I'll lose dead. But then he has like a
baby Lou in the pod that's like working and not working.
And then later on the deal tell you like, Okay,
that's doll Man doing that. But I find it very odd.

(24:13):
In the mid game, they're like like that was what
Fragile was hold hiding, right, is that Lou was dead.
But I don't understand because it felt like Sam understood
that Lou had passed on because we talked about it
in the first like that chapter two or three. He's
trying to kill himself multiple times. So in the middle
of the game when they're like, hey, we were just
putting stuff in your pod, Dolman was acting as your

(24:35):
you know, your r UAV and all that stuff like,
and then Sam's like broken down by it. I didn't
understand why he was because I'm like, well, no, like you,
this is why you're trying to kill yourself. So because
it was weird.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Of yea his reaction does not match like what it
feels like, because he's even seen like the BB turned
into like a tentacle at some points and stuff, So
it seems like, Okay, he must be aware that this
is obviously not Lou in there, right, But then you're
right the reaction when it all comes together, and maybe
it is just that realization. I suppose, like maybe he
just felt this way for a long time, but like

(25:09):
that was where it was actually confirmed or something.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
But that did not work for me, but it did
to me.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
It doesn't work because again, he was trying to take
his own life, So if he thought Lou was alive
at any point, why would he start doing that? And
that's where for me, when Fragile went somewhere and Lou
died in kind of a mysterious circumstance, I did think
it was the inception kind of interstellar. Okay, that's Lou
grown up time works differently. YEA had a science fiction jargon,
so I knew right away that was happening. I wish

(25:35):
what would have happened. I wouldn't have gone the scent is.
I wish what it would happen if they played it off,
and maybe they would have taken out some cut scenes,
but that Lou was shot or whatever and back in
the pod somehow like they needed to do a way
to show us that Lou hadn't died without us seeing
that and then that whole because I think that would
have been a shocking reel. Imagine the whole time us

(25:57):
as the viewer or the gamers think Lou is alive
and they say, no, we've been lying to you for
a whole twenty hours. She did die. But it's like
we already knew that. So that's how I knew the
second al Frand and got introduced, And especially because Sam
already has Dooms and he's repatriot all this stuff, it
wasn't a big surprise. So again I still like all
that stuff. Other than the lineage, I like, you know,
because they had the connection. I think it's a good

(26:19):
way of you get that loss. If he didn't get
to grow up with her. Obviously, she's gonna be still
somewhat messed up and hopefull get her feet on the ground,
but it's still trope that they find their way back together,
and it's it's not all for nothing, right, It's not
like you play the first games like, oh, we just
killed your kid in the first hour, and you know
that was fun, right, This is like, okay, there's all
there's a loss, but it's just like being separated from

(26:41):
which probably you know happened many times back in many
wars and stuff, right when you wouldn't see parents. So
that I can understand and be on board with. So
everything other than the the the heritage, I like with
Tomorrow Slash Lou Louise, Like I like all that stuff,
all the powers. Maybe could have used your a little
bit more and some more cut scenes and in the
finals and stuff, but uh yeah, I love the trippy

(27:02):
stuff where she's like a big baby and eats Higgs.
Like I'm all that stuff worked for me. So that
then being related, I have no notes. And that's where
I said to you. When they end with the end
credit of her as a porter, I'm like, man, last time,
we'll get to that. We'll get okay, okay, yeah, yeah,
So I was happy with us. So would you have
any issues with them?

Speaker 1 (27:21):
I well, so, I think for me, when when we
get those shots of seeing what fragile crashing on the
bike and lou being left there and all that, like
from the beginning, I was like, Okay, Lou, I don't
think Lou is dead, But I also don't think that
Lou was going to be a baby anymore, and so
I thought it was gonna be a bit different. I
didn't think that Lou had actually died and gone to

(27:42):
the beach and then is like coming back from this
beached realm. But I thought, like Lou being left out
in the rain, Lou was just gonna get pelted with
time fall and like be way older. So I honestly,
and I maybe I just forgot that Lou was like
a girl. I don't know if I knew like what
gender Lou was. I was I was gonna like Fallout
four flashbacks. Early on, I was like, is Lou the president?

(28:04):
Is that what's going on here? Like Lou is now
super duper old, and we're doing the Fallout four thing
where Louis is this president guy which isn't even a
real guy, which we'll talk about that of course later on.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
So I wasn't. I guess I was half surprised.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
I did not have that same read that you did
that it was tomorrow when that character was introduced, So.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Good on you for for that.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's probably because you and Kodima have seen like the
same amount of movies and you're you're used these.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Twists similar ta yeah, exactly. Yeah, And I felt like
el Fanning is gonna give her, gonna give her a
big meatia.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Role too, So yeah, but yeah, I definitely thought Lou
was gonna be around, and Lou was just gonna be
a character who was older at some point, so I
probably could have put two and two together that it
was tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
But I think that that does that does make sense.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
But yeah, I think at zero point did I believe
that the baby in the pod was Lou. I just
never felt that connection anymore. And honestly, I think part
of that too is like I was doing way less
soothing that baby. I didn't even care. I'm like, this
is not a real baby. I'm I can spend as
much time to like make sure this baby's happening. Also
feel like, once again, because I wasn't following as much,
I didn't have to. Uh, I would only do it

(29:07):
if it was like, okay, and now I'm trying to
be stealthy and this baby's crying.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Otherwise I would kind of leave the baby. So sorry,
maybe I shouldn't have admitted that on a podcast.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
No, No, I think it's a fake baby here, you know,
like that's the thing where it's just like that's a
tough thing. They want to replicate, like replicate what happened
in the first game with the baby with that connection
it being you know, it's your guide through the world.
But that's the problem that the second that baby got
out of the pod, you you couldn't you know, like,
you can't do that again. There was no way. It's
the genie at the bottle. You couldn't put the baby

(29:34):
back like Lou had grown up. You can't put Lou
back in the pod. So when you do it again
and already again, there wasn't the situation of oh it's
a new baby or it's like even if they would
have said, like, hey, you lost Lou, but we found
a way, even if they would have said this if
like we found a way to clone Lou and that
is Lou and that that incubator and then at the
end again reveal actually we lie to you. It's not
it's just all man. But that same thing it's not

(29:55):
like an actual thing. You know, something's up with it
and it is just nothing it's an empty tank. You
get all these flashbacks of him with empty tank and
it's all broken and being and all this stuff, which
is just like I guess everybody he met just had to
go along with this, you know.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Maybe they like had a projection in there, so like
the preppers and stuff would like see a baby and
just assume it was that. But yeah, the rest of
everyone was like on board to just gaslight him for
months at a time.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
Yeah, which I'm like, I know, Fragile that there was
like a healing process.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
I don't know if that works, but I think it
was fucked up, and I don't think in my opinion,
that's like not what Sam would have wanted, Like my
read on who the character is, like, that's not what
I would have thought. No, Fragile, No, it was better
than I do. Sure she spent a lot more time
with you do, you know, if you want to really
get deep in the in world part of it. But
I thought that was I thought that was kind of
fucked up, to be honest, from all the other characters

(30:44):
and everyone just being on board with that.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
I think that's my problem is some of this game
in the first episode still I don't even know if
I know who Sam is, you know, because I still
didn't get enough of Sam in this game. And that's
what I was gonna say before I forgot was. I
was like, you were, I didn't think Lou was completely dead.
But I think that's why I did power through the
main mission because I wanted that question answer because that
was really gonna affect my score because if it was

(31:06):
just yeah, no, legitimately that we killed off Lou in
that first hour, it would have been lower than a
nine for me because I would have felt like that
first game is even more tarnish. Like I said, I
don't like the gender or the you know, parentage reveal.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
But I don't like the gender.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
I don't think it should have been Lewis. But no,
that's what happens. Uh you might not remember is because
revealing it to girls like the last thing that happens
in the first game, because he gets her, I had
the paw, and that's what.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
I don't like, Oh my baby girl, Like I don't
know if he ever says something like.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
That, yeah, which was also weird, Like I this is
where we need more scenes with him and his wife.
Was she was calling the baby Louise. And it's like,
I M right because when he gets the baby in
the first thing is just I'll call it loose. It's
the same thing of that would have been great, just
even that she like showing a scene where they pick
a name together and that be her moment to click

(31:57):
of you know what, I can't be a neal anymore,
Like I still love Sam. We're gonna have this baby together,
we're picking names together, like that could have been a
fun moment of them to sign the name together. And
then later on the first game when he says lou
that has so much more meaning because he picked that
with his wife that was deceased in have an affair,
but he still cares about But we didn't get to
see that. We didn't just is it just happenstance that
he also called this baby lou I'm assuming they talked

(32:19):
about it, but we didn't see that they talked about it,
because the only scene we saw Sam and his wife
in this game is when she was dead, which that
is doesn't make any that that to me is very
low tier as far as like give us one scene
of them together, especially.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
I think and even if not like that's where I
talk about this in our first episode of like I
just wish there was someone who Sam was super good
friends with it, where he would like talk about stuff
and he would share his inner world and maybe he
could talk about their relationship and even like the good
and the bad. I don't know if the context of
talking about the good makes sense based.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
On Dolman was right there and everything.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Oh Dolman is ready to chatter, but it's definitely a
one way a one way street unfortunately, so yeah, I'll
say tomorrow. Other Otherwise, you know, some of these reveals
maybe not hitting super hard I think visually, and just
like character wise was great, I would have loved if
there was more dialogue with her. It feels like with
some characters in this game, it's like, okay, the in

(33:14):
studio fee was much than other action, so someone like
a Norman readis even even though I'm sure he gives
Kujima maybe a good fee because he likes him so much.
But it felt like Elfane I could have used some
more dialogue with her. Now it makes sense a bit
if we're trying to portray her as like, oh, this
is still kind of a baby growing up and she's
learning how to talk, and obviously we talked about the
sequences are Rainy is teaching her just like math and

(33:36):
like basic things like this, So it makes sense that
she maybe doesn't have like all the vocal ability, but
like she gets there at some point and I feel
like there could have been some more sequences there. But yeah, visually,
I love the character that opening sequence, like after you've
saved her and they bring like the chrysalis shell into
the Magellan and they're like dismantling it and starting to
do investigations, and the tars seeping out of her. Like
all the visuals there are ten out of ten, And

(33:58):
obviously all the combat sequences, even if it's just cut
scenes of her popping off on people are always great.
When she sucks up Higgs at one time, like all
that stuff, it is great. So I think all the
visuals around her when she has like the gold paint
mixed with like guitar kind of crying out like just
visually top notch. And I love I love the dynamic
between Fragile Rainy and Tomorrow, Like these three girls who

(34:19):
are just having fun. They do the pictures, they're doing
little things. They go on that adventure at one point
where they take the truck and go and I was
I was very scared for them, but they made it
back and they did a good job, which I'm like,
why do you guys do more? Like I'm doing so
much over here and you guys crush this mission? Like
I feel like you could help out a little bit more.
But I really love the dynamic between those three. I
think they were just a really fun, cute little friend

(34:39):
group that was adorable.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Even gameplay story wise. I was kind of hoping we
were gonna get to play as one of the three
of them on that mission, just to change it up
a little bit. Cool. Yeah, that was a great dynamic.
That's the stuff like Tomorrow and that. That's the things
that always bat around my head when you know we're
the movies on the way hopefully and that thing where
it's just like, ah, do you go your own path?
Or there's so many things that are like, like I

(35:02):
said to more on these three that are just ripe
for I could feel like the visuals, the powers, kind
of the aura Timore has that is a very cinematic character, right,
and I guess you could make something similar to that.
But it's like when I saw this in the game, Like,
how do you not when she's going through bodies and
the first time, like you said, she fights Higgs, and
even when Higgs eventually like figures out a way to
get it back on her, it's like, how do you

(35:23):
not just kind of do this in the movie? Right?
And it's tough because with if it's l and if
it's Troy and whatnot. But yeah, I agree with you
what you said earlier, even if it's not even the
quote of money. Maybe it's just stuff of Hey, Normansa's like, hey,
I got all these gigs, I can give you this
amount of time for dest ranting too, you know. And
that's what sometimes it feels like. It's not even like
oh I don't want to or pay wise, just you know,

(35:44):
I'm in Ballerina, I'm in my Walking Dead show, I'm
doing this. So it's just and that's why sometimes I
wonder and at that point I go, Okay, either two
things of you wait and you let the game cook
for a little so you can get those, or maybe
you do a different story where someone can be more
available because I do again, maybe that's a good gem
of choice. If that's a choice, it's like, hey, I
I feel like I still don't have a clear picture

(36:05):
of Sam. I always say in the first game, I
was find that because his setup was kind of the
lone wolf hero. But now he's been so much and
so many times, like when you take the phoes of him,
you're like smile, Like it's Sam's not like a completely
shut off character now, which he should have, like you,
he could have got away with that of saying, hey,
we killed off Lou and now he's completely shut down.

(36:25):
But when you're making him do silly stuff with people
and he's he's having a good time where he's laughing
with Dollman, it's like, okay, well now you've like humanized
him a little bit. He's still a person. So and
even when he has his talks with Timore, like at
one point Timore goes out again, like leaves the ship,
and he's kind of like a guiding light to make
her stay there, right, And again it's you don't learn
much about Sam. He just says some really cool biblical

(36:48):
shit that's like, yeah, I should be around, but he's
he has some personality. It's just we don't know modives,
feelings everything like that, Even that moment when I know
we'll get there, but it's the second last time you
see Higgs. It feels much more like at times, Fragile
feels like the main character of this game. That whole

(37:09):
scene where she's taking the guitar and slamming it down
and they can't remember what he repeats of like I'm
so strong, I can't break what. He keeps saying that
phrase over and over Sam. This guy killed Sam's daughter
could and at this point could be his biological daughter.
He's just like sitting off the side. He's just chilling
where Fragile is getting this massive scene. She's monologue, she's

(37:31):
handling the guitar.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, last to do? What's up? Was her paycheck much
lower or something?

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Because she's getting she's getting lines in this game for sure.
I don't know what's going on there.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Or could you just get more efactuated with her because
they remember the smoking thing I told you about, or
maybe she had more free time, maybe because they're the
same thing though, right because around that time, let's see
twenty yeah COVID, Like maybe it's a situation, Hey, I'm
filming Bond right now, and I got this amount of
time and now it's like, hey, I'm not in bond
like she and even you look at her in Dune
right and Dune she had like a couple of scenes.
It could just be that, but yeah, Fragile at times

(38:02):
feels like the main character, which I didn't have that
same impact that you did, because I feel that's what
I'm interested in your thoughts of Fragile now because I
could feel you kind of like wavering on the character.
I agree, don't get me wrong. The therapy session, that
thing's kind of fucked up. But the rest of the stuff,
the self sacrifice, the idea of she's this like dying corpse.
Thats just like she's possessing this corpse and only so

(38:24):
amount of time. So that's why there is times where
there's so much ramag stuff going on. I'm like, why
the fuck is Fragile so happy? Like this feels very odd,
but now I like it. It's like, oh, she's only
got so much time left, so she's just taken in
all the moments, Like the last thing she does is
kiss Sam because it's like she's never gonna get a chance.
So to me, when I found out, it's like a
person that's pretty much been told, Hey, you're Gonna Die

(38:45):
August twenty fourth, in twenty fifteen, you're like, well, this
is what at the time I got that actually made
it help. Even though there's some questionable stuff. I liked
all that. I liked the sacrifice to try and save Lou,
that she made that sacrifice to kind of kill herself
and possess her course and corpse, and the whole time
she's been trying to sell the network and help Sam. Like,
I liked that idea of the person of the mission.

(39:07):
And I think their last appearance together is really sad,
where Sam just sees like the tar you know, gray
and white version of her, and he goes to grave
and she disappears, and that's the last time you see
frag On. To me, that's like a oh man, that
that sucks. That's like it's someone you'd want to thank
or you know, apologize to or say all this stuff too,

(39:27):
but you can't because that person's gone. So how it ended,
I end up liking fragi On. Frage was probably my
favorite character of the series, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
So yeah, I think she definitely gets the most content.
I mean, Sam gets the most screen time, but she
gets the most content. Yeah, I I I think, you know,
A big thing for me is I just I feel
like the first game, you know, it sets up a
world lore rules and then there's like some exceptions, but
this game, there are just so many exceptions that it

(39:56):
feels like there's really no rules at all. And so
for me that she was like dead but is like
able to survive for some amount of time through like
speaking through like a corpse, none of it really made
any sense to me, And I think that's why the
stakes seem a bit lower, because I'm like, I don't
even know what we're doing anymore. Like everything just feels
like a plot device, and nothing feels like super meaningful
or like dead Man dies, but then he's like coming back,

(40:17):
and at first he's like yeah, talking through like a robot,
and then he's like half of heart Man. But then
they can see and it seems like it's limited, but
then it's at some point in the story they can
just swap back and forth constantly and they just I guess,
are constantly in conversation with each other and can just
swap freely, and it's like I think it's like he
wanted to be a cool thing, but then he just
kind of doesn't really think about the rules anymore because
he just wants to have the scenes he wants to have,

(40:38):
And so I think that's part of it is I
just feel a lot that's connected with the world in general,
because none of it really makes any sense anymore, and.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
It never really did.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
But I feel like this game really went off the
deep end, or like it not at the deep end.
It just didn't care anymore about making sense, and it's
just like, Okay, well, I guess, okay, this is a
new exception to a rule we can add into the mix.
But then, like I said, when everything's inception, none of
it really makes sense at all, and it just kind
of feels like a bit like spaghetti. And I don't know,
I like, I didn't really see much of a romantic

(41:09):
bond between these characters, so when they kissed at the end,
it just felt like okay, I I don't know, it
didn't it didn't have a huge effect on me.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
I didn't feel like a thing that that should be done.
I thought, maybe what.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
The reveal was gonna be is that fragile because she
was dead and could only operate from the beach and
had to like go through this body. I thought maybe
the reveal was that she was the one like in
Lose Pod or something like that, and that's because because
that's what she says, I wanted to be here with Sam,
but like she's not really with Sam whole a lot,
Like he's off doing stuff and she's hanging out with

(41:41):
them jelling or not or at the beach. I don't
really know exactly where she is, right but I thought
that that might be it, or that she was like
somehow in the body of doll Man, like, and that
was a whole ruise because that was something I was
expecting there'd be like another reveal of later in the
game of like who doll Man is. But it's like
just some guy and because he's like can communicate with
the dead, he works as a good BB sauce Audrey Dex,

(42:03):
so like he'll just come in and do that role,
but like he doesn't really have a role in the story.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
He's kind of just a guy. And so that's where
I was thinking maybe.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Those would be one of the ways she would be
there for along the ride, but that would be really
weird too if it's like I want to be close
to this guy who she clearly has romantic interest in
but like hides it through like a weird other version.
So I don't know, it just seemed a little bit
forced to me. I guess I wasn't too angry about it.
I think she like she gives the best performances in

(42:30):
this game in my opinion, and she gets some of
the most meaty scenes in that scene with Higgs for sure,
Like she's just going at it acting wise, and it
feels like, yeah, she had more time in the booth
and she like made every second of account or as
other actors, it just feels like, yeah, even Norman reads
like this guy should have way more lines than he does,
considering he's not just the avatar but he is the

(42:50):
protagonist of the game.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
One thing I was confused about.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
With her is the gloves because they were like, oh, yeah,
like she's controlling these gloves because she has like limited
control from the beach, but like she's controlling like the
whole body.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
So did like what is where did like the gloves.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Come into the mix there? I couldn't really understand. To me,
that seemed like it was just a funny visual thing
that Kajima had the idea to do. But I don't know,
I don't know if it really made sense why she
had the gloves.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
To me, No, not to me either. I think it's
it'd be different she didn't have use of her actual hands,
but not I just thought it was okay, it's extension
of yourself. And I don't know, maybe they could have
said something like she was weaker so she did these hands.
But yeah, I didn't. I didn't take uh, I don't know.
I didn't understand the hands and the connection to the
dead stuff. So yeah, no, on a few of the

(43:40):
points you hit, there are I guess. For me, I
always thought Sam and her were romantic. I guess, and
that's after playing the first game. I guess too. There's
a lot like in their first mission, feels like he's
like half naked and there's just like a lot of
Kajima sterisms going on and stuff. So I run that,
but I don't think it's like sold.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
There were in this game that you feel like and
two specifically.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
I just feel like there's it's a you know, go
mora and uh, pure quil cheers is an unspoken thing.
You know, it's that type of vibe where there's something
going on, and that's where it's tough because I do.
I was fine with THEO when she says, you want
to spend it with Sam is because we're doing all
that stuff in the game. But I take it it's
still like, well, there's still lots of time there on
the Magellan, and you know you're taking those because like
me in the game, when it's like, oh, take a

(44:19):
photo of Sam, and you take a photo like you
could take another, I'm like, no, I'm good. I want
to get back to do my stuff. But I can
kind of head canon that they are, you know, having
somewhat of a good time on the Magell and as
good as it can be. I agree with you on
the dead Man one, though, I found I didn't really
understand the purpose. Just have them in the game. Just
have them. It's it's not like, this is a guy

(44:40):
that's made to look like Garmemo del Toro, but he's
not a voice by Garmin de Toro, so I can
understand if he was voiced by Garymo de Toro. And
he said, Hey, you know, Kajima, I don't have the
same amount of time I did the first game, so
what could we do? Oh, I'll make this plot device
where you die but will have you come in sporadically
but not as much where I don't maybe wrong, maybe
it's the same case. Maybe the voice actor couldn't do,
but I I don't I think that's the case. And again,

(45:01):
if that's the case, you should have let the game
cook a little longer and just wait. To me, it's
just he's just dead Man there, like if you want
to have this cameo, like save it more at the
end when you and Higgs are on the beach or
you and the president of the things, like, I'm not
completely opposed to you going on the beach, and this
game is wild, right, and dead men helping on some way, right,
But the fact that dead Men especially i'd say, because

(45:22):
you're talking about, you know, what his heartman up to
and then he you know, he's up at night, he's
doing all this stuff and it's reveal the dead Man,
like he said, possessing his body. And then once you
get that reveal, yeah, it feels like God, wh I forgot?
Dead Man is just around a bunch And before it
was weird where it was like okay, when he goes

(45:42):
to sleep or he passes. For the twenty seven minutes,
dead Man's there, it's like, Okay, I guess I kind
of get that. But near the end bowe, Yeah, they're
just swapping back and forth like a mystique sort of thing.
And didn't really enjoy that. I like some of the
stuff that you can access where it's like, oh, dead
Man has some connection to the beach, but could you
could gave some other.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Jar makes no sense that like his voice changes, it's
like he's still using the same boat.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Yeah, no, I agree, it doesn't make sense. So and
even like to me, it's like I got they're doing,
but like he shouldn't even have like the dead Man
like Franken signed monsters like staples on his head, like
it just yeah, it was It was a that was
one that like it didn't it didn't ruin anything for me.
But I wasn't like, oh this is really cool. It
just made go ah, they shouldn't have killed dead Man.
He should have just still been around.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
I did get a good laugh though, the first time
he opens the mask of the big red Samurai suit
on the beach there and it's just dead Man's face
propped up on like.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
This goliath of a body. Oh yeah, that was pretty good.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
That was the only time. The only time, the first
time when it's uh, we saw that it was in
the first scenes they showed. It was I think the
revealed trailer and then whatever event when they showed the
first scene that Higgs breaks out the guitar and you're
talking about doll Man and everything that which I'm pretty
sure he said that you killed Lou, and I think
they showed that clip to the public, so I guess
I just forgot, or maybe that wasn't in the clip.
I don't know, but there there was that moment where

(47:01):
he dead Man saves you, but they don't reveal it's
dead Man. It's just you know, Sam's like, who are you?
And he says and it's like baby noises. That was
the only time I was thrown off. Was like, oh,
is this Lou? For somehow is this Lou? And like
some sort of yeah. So that was the only time.
So that was another reason. I'm like, okay, I gotta
get that. I still have my money on l But
I was like, that's weird they didn't show it, and

(47:22):
then baby noises and that would make sense. I'm like, okay,
it's you know, the baby. You know, uh, Lou didn't
learn how to speak yet it's still can possess some stuff.
But then later on, you know, not too far from there,
they shows dead Man. But that was the only time
I questioned myself. But yeah, I agree with they like
their reveal of just U dead Man just being dead
up there.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
So m hmm, yeah, how about we take our first
break of the show here, Thank our Patren Produces, Aaron Brighton,
Aple of Darkness, Jack Grant, Sam super Bad, Mike TGGLM six',
Nine Jeremy, Renner Charlie, Rendell Cocktail. Clay thank you guys
so much for supporting the, show keeping the lights, on
all that good.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Stuff let's take a quick ad.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
Break we'll be right.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Back, okay we are. BACK a couple quick notes on Doll.
Man AS i, mentioned like there wasn't really any story
reveals to be had in the second half with this.
Character you, know AS i, mentioned like he kind of
is the my mirror of this, game just hooked Onto sam's,
belt can kind of explain some. Things SOMETIMES i feel
like he does over explain certain things in that very mirror,

(48:20):
way like that happens To god Of, war which is
kind of. Annoying one MOMENT i loved is when they
are Doing they're getting ready to go to the beach
everyone and they like seat belt doll men in and
then he like taps his little seat. BELT i was,
like this is the cutest little baby groot moment.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Ever, yeah SO i love.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
That and then also WHEN i was going through looking
through the trophy list and trying to knock some of these,
out there's a couple like hintset things to, do and
one of them is like you go and maybe you've seen,
THIS i don't know if you. Have if you go
into The magellan and you put on a very specific,
song it's one of the Wood kids, songs and then
you look over At. Dahl when you talk To, dollman
he will start doing like a fully full choryraph dance

(49:00):
for the entire, songs and then like all the Other
domino will pop, in some other guy pops in and
it's like a full LIKE k pop dance like.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Sequence do, it and then you get a trophy after
you've watched the whole.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Thing so you, know there there's quite a few easter
eggs in this, game and that was one of the
silly ones that.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Happened so you, know show us to that.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Moment, uh let's see which CHARACTER i want to talk
About rainy a little, bit BECAUSE I i think that's
ALL i have to say is a little, bit because,
UNFORTUNATELY i feel like this, character as we, mentioned one
of the coolest character introductions in a Game i've ever.
SEEN i love the concept of, HER i like the.
VISUALS i think it's a really great. Performance AS i,
mentioned like the connection that all the girls, have which

(49:40):
Obviously rainy is a big part of. That BUT i
was a little disappointed at how little she got to
do in the. STORY i feel like in terms of
the plot or like you, know the big plans and,
things it feels like she's never really involved in any of.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Those she's kind of just.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
There and, then like her, powers they set up as,
like obviously she can summon the, rain OR i guess
she she kind of just, does but then it feels
like at some point she obviously just gets gets a
little charm and she can like kind of control it
on and, OFF i.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Suppose but then the second.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Part of it is, That, okay she creates all this,
rain but then there's like a close bubble around here
where she actually like reverses the effects of time fall
and correct me If i'm. Wrong that's like never used
once in the game for any plot. Point it seems
like a really weird thing to introduce if they're never
actually going to like the only thing they do is
like showing her like healing some, apples but it's like
it never actually was really relevant for anything else.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Else, yeah, RIGHT i GUESS i guess the two things
that's relevant BECAUSE i could be. Wrong is that not
How fragile got healed?

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Up at what point off?

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Screen BECAUSE i feel Like fragile. DOES i feel Like
fragile Knew rainy off? Screen? RIGHT i feel like she's
talking about rain like they've known each other before they
met here or AM i not remembering? That?

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Well, YEAH i mean there's there's info on, her which
is why you're sent to Her prepper station to bring
her on. Board BUT i AND i think they had met.
Before so you're saying that she heal like she healed
like the time fall effects That fragile suffered from the
first game is that you're.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
SAYING i think, SO i thought that was inferred at
somewhere that that.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Happened she heals it all because she still wears the
suit the whole.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Time, no she because Even higgs makes a comment of, like,
oh you're looking much. Better so she is. Healed and
there's a couple of times you see her in like
a tank top because if you don't.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Recall the first doesn't her hand get hit at one
point and it like gets time falled again.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
And it was all clear. Before, yeah because at the
first game she gets a, Helmet.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
I'm surprised that she's STILL i think that was like
a a big reason why she had that. Outfit i'm
kind of surprised she, doesn't LIKE i guess she takes
like she has like a tank top at some.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Points, yeah she is tank. Top, yeah she doesn't a.
Time so, yeah, okay because in the first, game her
whole body's covered other than her. Face let THAT i.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
GUESS i GUESS i didn't clock that because in the
first game you never actually like see her. Body it's
just like talked about.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
That, yeah you only see it once in like the
you don't see When, yeah so you get. That and
then ALSO i think it's just a like it's somebody
don't get, Wrong i'm completely with. You WHERE i Think
rainy fantastic. SETUP i was very excited to see more
of this, character AND i think it's it's. Me it's
tough saying a letdown BECAUSE i still like the, character

(52:11):
but it is a. LETDOWN i think what they are
trying to do as, well that it was another character
similar to To Morrow, slash Lou, luise whatever you wanna call,
him as far as she's a good guy to help
this character maybe try to tame the powers or work
on the, powers because she has similar stuff that she's you,
know other worldly. STUFF i just think they didn't tap
into that. Enough AND i would have liked more of

(52:34):
a story With rainy because you could maybe just put
that stuff To fragile because you do most of the.
Stuff but then they are great. Together and also you
get the one scene WHICH i think is a phenomenal
scene when she does Save sam will bring on the
rain BECAUSE i love That higgs finds a way To
he uses the, guitar which we're gonna use the guitar

(52:54):
to Set sam on, fire but they whenever he repeat,
repatriots it's like it brings back that certain chemical that
starts to fire, again WHICH i, thought, man that what
a what an awesome bad guy thing of all you're
gonna die and you're kind of come back Like, sam
like burnt alive like seven, times like what an, awesome
just terrible. Thing SO i guess you got that as,
well That rainy made the, Save SO i don't know
if that's just another function Of kuldjima thought this great

(53:16):
scene of doing what With? Sam like how DO i
get out of?

Speaker 2 (53:19):
This so that's a good.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
POINT i did forget about, that and and then and,
YEAH i THINK i kind of dismissed that fragile. Stuff
and then another ONE i just kind of thought, of is, That,
yeah she kind of like obviously part of her story
is that she's just eternally, pregnant has like a still
born seventh seven maybe, yeah but she gets to pretty
much kind of sort of be the mother to. Tomorrow
and obviously at this point we don't really know that

(53:40):
it's like this weird baby situation that's going on WHEN
i think this was like a teenage girl or early
twenties or, something but obviously she kind of gets to
have that bit of that mothering. Role SO i guess
like as a support, character maybe she did get to
do a. LOT i guess maybe just in like the
final you, know act of the game or.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Something there's just not a whole lot for her to.
Do but, YEAH i still liked her.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
Inclusion of. COURSE i think she's a fun person to
have along for the.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Ride, yeah DEFINITELY i would have took it, more though
not LIKE i would have not been mad by more rainy.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Stuff so, yeah, Uh Tarman tarman is at one, POINT
i don't know if. YOU i assume this was like
a mandatory, scene but maybe it was like some weird
cut scene side thing where he. Talked he's talking about
his hand and the fact that he lost his hand
in this fishing, accident and he's, like, ah my, hand
it's kind of like a phantom.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
Pain, yes, yeah, Yes internet's been very, happy lots of
memes with that. One but, yeah did you.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Did you read did you get his the backstory with his?
Son did you get that cut? Scene because it's not
mandatory to get that cut, Scene, no, wife not, Yet, no, Okay,
yeah so what you do IS i forget who gives you?
Books it probably is.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
HIM i think he gives you a, book and then
like in your, room in your private, room you can
look over at your shelf that has like the cryoat
crypto crypto. Biotes it has like the what else did
they have on? It it's not the one with the.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Camera it has like the, drinks and then there's like
books down below and you can there's A Moby dick
book and you can pick up The Moby dick book
and then in it there is a picture Of tarman
and his, son and then you go into like this
whole story Cut it's, like, well it's, not, yeah it's.
Not there's no gameplay to it's just a cut scene
that's maybe like five ten minutes, long and it SHOWS
i don't, know do you want me to tell you

(55:18):
what it is or do you want to watch it for?

Speaker 3 (55:19):
Yourself you can give me THE i all still watch,
it but you give me the Cliff.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Nos, Okay i'll just tell you that it sets, up you,
know what happened with his son and is this whole.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Scene SO i think it gave.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Me it gave me a more of appreciation because it
feels like it filled in some good backstory for. HIM
i thought it was interesting that it was an optional.
SCENE i guess it's it's you, know not mandatory to the,
story but it does give you some good background on
this character who's obviously around for the whole, ride even
if he's more of like a support character than like
a main main. Character BUT i like that. SCENE i

(55:50):
thought it was well. Done it was, like you, know
as far As kajuma, goes like a really really great
cut scene and.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Like it BECAUSE i don't know if.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
YOU i don't know if this has happened for, You
but you know when the sequence when everyone is is
going to the beach and then everyone's in like this
weird floating water thing and everyone's kind of laying down
in a, circle were you wondering who a couple of
those characters?

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Were where there a couple of people are like who
are those? People?

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Well there was the one THAT i knew WAS i
think the guy that was originally the holder Of lou
like that one of the random.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Guys, OKAY i, SEE i there was one guy WHO
i still don't know who he, is and it could
be that thing and made them forgetting or to, me
it also kind of looked like like Doll man as a,
Human SO i was wondering.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
There, Too yeah that's Doll. Man, Yeah domen is definitely. There, Okay,
yeah that's the seon one and there's a guy that
kind of looks more, army And i'm pretty sure that's
the guy who Had lou in the first game because
at one, point remember you meet some receiver and he's,
like Oh, SAM i haven't seen. You, well like you
still got my brother's like drinket or whatever he refers
to his. Brother, yeah so that's what, happens where the
guy that you went a mission with that Had lou

(56:50):
and he dies and you take his Take luna his.
Backpack you meet his brother's names Like mark or, something
and they bring him. Back SO i think that's who that,
was BUT i don't know if that.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Was one of.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Them is Tarment, Son so if you, can that could
be the guy that you just like didn't wreckt. Me
it could seem a screen, shop but obviously get in
a full.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Cute, Okay so, this as you, said something you have
to do on the ship or is it a sub?

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Order, no it's just in the. Ship and when you're
after you've gone to, sleep just uh yeah look over
at the at the thing to your. Right AND i
was on the, bookshelf just read the book and then Up.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
AND i wish that was mandatory because As i've said
BEFORE i don't Dislike, tarmann BUT.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
I, mean it wasn't hinted at that you would get
something meaningful of doing. That BUT i guess there's so
few things to do in your room that maybe you
would just happen upon, it which obviously happened to me
at some.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
Point, Yeah so for, me it's, LIKE i let you, Know.
Tarment it's fun that It's George, miller but for, me
that's probably my least favorite, character just because not in
a dislike, way just LIKE i. HAVE i have no
attachment to him, really and then some cool Like kajima,
Stuff so that's. Good i'll go search that out the
next TIME i play, it Because i'd like to be
more connected to that, character even though the journey's kind
of over now still and retroactedly you, know think about.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
It so, yeah, Definitely, uh let's see you where do
we want to go To? Max maybe we can talk About,
okay let's talk About sam and then lead this into
like the die hardman. Stuff SO i, MEAN i THINK
i think one of my biggest issues with this game
is at some point in the, story you, know you're
doing your you're doing your, stuff you're Connecting. Australia and
then at some, point you, know even from the, beginning

(58:20):
AS i, mentioned LIKE i feel Like sam should have
so much a skepticism to why he would do any
of this, stuff especially when so many characters like The
president And charlie are kind of like shrouded behind not
even revealing like who they actually. Are To, sam it's
like you just trusting these, people or like you're trusting
that Like fragile And crew trust these. People so it's
like extra layers of. Disconnect but like for, me especially

(58:41):
when it starts ramping up and The president is starting
to come towards you with secret messages and he's.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
Like the private, Line, sam yeah he had blue and
then yeah right, away, Yeah, red don't don't Trust.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Charlie you can't trust, anything he. Says you, know we.
Don't we don't trust this. Guy we think you might
be against.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
This but then Like charlie is telling youtinue to connect
all Of, australia, uh because that's what our goal, Entails
and so it's like why and why at that point
Would sam still continue to do any of this mission
and obviously.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
Effency, yeah yet nothing With, sam like he's no there's
not even a. Choice it would have been fun of
like Choose, charlie choose the, president just like maybe just
small branches different and the result is the. Same but
it's just.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Like like he should we we should get like a
cuttinge or something where he talks To fragile or someone
else that he's considered to trusting a high, amount which
probably would Be, fragile and just like maybe Maybe, dolman
but Doll mansill is a little bit mystery around him,
too but then, Yeah fragile would be the, one and
just be, like, hey what the f is going on?

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Here do you have more?

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Backstory please fill me in quick, Gas LIKE i, mean
like tell me SHOULD i? Trust which one of these
guys SHOULD i? Trust, because LIKE, i this is a
obviously we've seen what happens when you connect everyone of
The kyrole, network and we know when we Finished, australia
it's go put another play gate and give him all
this like new power across the globe and who knows
where that's gonna. Open so it just feels, like, MAN
i was really bothered by that that we're just given

(01:00:01):
an All and THEN i think the reason WHY i
didn't love it especially at the end is when we
finally get to all this, reveal the president just like
exposition dumps tells you exactly what's going on that he
is not actually. Real it's actually like this the a
pass four, thousand these four thousand people that died and
avoid out and created like this shared consciousness, beach, yeah

(01:00:21):
which is being used to kind of through the chiral,
network communicate and like control the real. World and their
goal is to connect everyone in the whole world to
the chiral network so that they can essentially circumvent evolution
for mankind and put everyone on the chiral, network and
that way will remove any threat of like creating void
outs because people won't be dying.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Anymore they'll control.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
Them because they want we want to keep them. Inside
we don't even want, to you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Know and then they'll control the whole. World and that's
a huge that's a. Lot that's a bunch of.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Reveals and then no less than two minutes, Later Die hartman's, like,
oh ACTUALLY i Am, charlie and Actually i've already circumvented
that whole. Plot so all that exposition we've building to
this huge, reveal none of it actually, matters and don't.
Worry there's no consequences Because i've already gone ahead and
fixed it. All it's, like why the fuck did we
spend all this time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Leading up to?

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
This there's multiple sides of this. Story we get this
huge reveal and then we just immediately go over it
and like there's no gameplay sequence. Anything it just like
immediately goes to the solution of. That SO i was
pretty bothered by the maybe just the pacing of, that and,
like once AGAIN i had big issues in the first
game of the pacing of the last section is just
like way way too dragged.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
DOWN i wish it was more.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
SUCCINCT i feel that big time for this game as.
WELL i think that last when it feels like the
game is, over there's still, like, oh you got ten
more hours of stuff to get, through and some of
the gameplays, okay some of it's kind of, Boring but
then in terms of the story, STUFF i just feel
like this game was way too slow to ramp up
to the story, reveals AND i just wish maybe that
present thing should have happened hours and hours.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Earlier we sit with it for a, while.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
We deal with, it we come up with solutions and
then the die hardman reveal comes. IN i just feel
like it was paced really. Horribly, Honestly, YEAH i.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Don't i'm gonna mix on all of it BECAUSE i
like that. IDEA i don't mind the setup of a
bunch of people in tech getting fused with the beach
and they got their own. Goal Like i'm, Like, okay
there's like a third party going. On that's, good and
that almost could have been like a villain amungs itself
to go further. ON i agree and push back on
the point you, made like on both sends on fifty

(01:02:17):
to fifty WHERE i think they wrap it up all
way too. Quick you're completely right about direct. MAN i
will say it is still consequential because they're the ones
that Released higgs out into the, wild, Right so everything
That higgs does is because of, Them so they still
have an, impact and he's still like the final. Boss
he still Takes lou away from him for a.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
While don't rerupt.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
You My my counterpoint to this is at this point
of the, story we have Defeated higgs like five. Times
so at this Point i'm, like, not, OBVIOUSLY i know
it's a video, game and we're gonna like win in the, end,
probably But i'm already, like, man we've killed this guy many.
Times i'm not scared of this guy. Anymore like he's
a fucking. Goon we've killed him so many, times so,
LIKE i know we're gonna kill him again if he's

(01:02:56):
coming back. Whatever BUT i GUESS i didn't feel, like,
oh there's some big bad when it's, like, hey well
Like tomorrow accidentally killed him one, time you, know like
he's just dying right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Here, yeah but if they didn't release, him lou would
still be, around you, Know that's the thing at that
because they brought on the Whole Red necks at the
beginning With fragile and the babysitting, mate so they were still,
around right well, YEAH i mean like as a, baby you,
know he lost a lot of. Years BUT i do
think it was wrapped up very. Quickly didn't love the
die hardman stuff of in. GENERAL i didn't love the

(01:03:27):
intro scene to Die. HARMON i thought to, me like
before it was all wrapped, up AND, i LIKE i,
said completely agree with, you where it felt like it
was a bigger deal with very solve very easily and
just kind of takes Like higgs take Center, stage which
we'll get into BECAUSE i THINK i still like more than.
You but The Die harman, ONE i didn't like the
scene Where charlie pops up and does a dance number
and they revealed To Die. Harmin that's where Sometimes kajima

(01:03:50):
does go too, hard and for, Me i'm not post
that stuff being in. Here it was just at the
moment of this very because again they are pretty much
you're getting in the revelation that these are the people
Behind lou. Dying at this, point we don't Know Al
fanning Is, lou, right so you're just to tell, you,
Well higgs was. Released you guys released, him and you
kill my daughter and Here's Die harmon doing a fucking musical.

(01:04:11):
Number it's like. That for me was not hittingim like
this should be a very important mote because that's one
thing at, least THOUGH i agree with. You it's very,
Long but like that stuff With omiley on the beach
and destrating, one there's no like comedy. Beats there's nothing
that feels like. Odd it's all very heavy. Stuff it
might be expositional. Stuff you're, like, wow this is very,
wide but still it's all has the same tone that was,

(01:04:33):
odd AND i Think Die hartman did not feel like
the same character as in the first. Game he did
not feel because Die harmon to me is very stir
AND i get. It times have, passed and his last
scene In destranding is very crucial where he breaks down and.
Cries but he's not, Eccentric he's not just like he's
so like, Friendly LIKE i feel LIKE i needed him
at to begin the game to see a journey to

(01:04:54):
get from POINT a to POINT. B i get. It
it has BEEN i think they, SAID i think it's, like,
UH i think it's like it's a year and a
month because, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
A month jump and then there's like a month. Jump,
yeah it's like about a year pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Much when was the eight it was eight month jump
before After.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
LOU i think that was like when he went To.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Mexico, okay, yeah BECAUSE i Think lou was eleven months
at the Time lou like, passed and then there's like
two months after, that so it's like he hasn't Seen
Die hardman for like a year and like that year. Month,
yeah definitely someone could. CHANGE i just felt like it
was not at all the same character or whatsoet he
just feels so much more. CONFIDENT i JUST i don't,
Know i'm not confident the way in the first. Game
the first game was very presidential and very not untrustworthy

(01:05:36):
but kind of hard, ass like you wouldn't like Die Hard.
Man but this was just like he felt like he
was best friends with saying, LIKE i don't, know it
FELT i almost wonder IF i would have liked Dead
man in this role better somehow or and he was.
Gone but AND i don't get me, WRONG i really
Like diehardman that first. Game it's like a kind of
a opposition in a sense. Too and, yeah it just
it didn't hit for, me like it was fun when he's, like,

(01:05:59):
OH i think it's called THE dhv like that stuff,
worked BUT i just, LIKE.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
I don't know IF i if they had shown off
like what this stood, for but like at no point
WAS i wondering. That and then it was like a
big reveal like this is Die Hardman. VESSEL i was,
like is that is that supposed to be a big
reveal or is this like a, Joke like because there's
so many, yeah as you're mentioning like a lot of
moments of levity, THERE i couldn't tell that was supposed
to be kind of hamming up the goofiness of.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
That, yeah and that's kind of the problem that for.
Me other than the fragile, reveal none of the big
reveals really worked for. Me you, know the parentage one didn't,
Work Neil donna didn't, work the whole Dead man, one
The president, actually LIKE i, said The president one. WORKED
i like. THAT i agree with you that the execution
was a great but a lot of the sometimes it
felt like there was just a reveal for the sake of,

(01:06:44):
reveal and that was die hardman where it didn't feel a.
Natural oh, man this makes complete. Sense it was just
LIKE i said in the first episode where it's like
WHERE'S i? Heard? Man this feels? Odd and then oh,
kidding he's he's been on the ship the whole. Time
it's like all, right like, cool same.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Thing it was, like, yeah kind of two sides that
obviously the ONE i already mentioned of, like, man this
guy won't even tell you who he, is which obviously he,
did but, like you, know he's not telling you who he,
is the fact that we trust, him LIKE i have
big issues with that as like, one Just, sam but
like everyone else on the on the ship, Too like
it just feels like so much trust to put in
like this complete question.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
Mark but.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
TOO i, ACTUALLY i actually do love the hiding and
playing sight angle of it that, like oh, yeah you're
kind of what's, given like feel like a fake. Choice
obviously we discussed on that first, episode like she kind
of we didn't pick Die herban, originally but like the
game will always force you to. It but because it
feels like there is a bit of fake choice in,
there it feels like it throws off the scent a little.
Bit but then just, like oh, yeah he actually is

(01:07:41):
just die hardman and that's the guy who he has
decided to. PORTRAY i think is a really fun idea
and FUN i find it funny that this game is
kind of did this multiple, times like in the same
sort of way with the affair and like the baby
and all this, stuff AND i feel like they're kind
of just hiding what actually, happened like raid and fun
of you the whole. Time and SO i THINK i
was that was. CLEVER i, LIKE i like that part of.

(01:08:01):
IT i thought that was kind of a funny. Idea but,
YEAH i, AGREE i think it was a weird thing,
because LIKE i don't. Know it's not like Die hartman
was either of our favorites from that first game. Either and,
Man I've i've heard. So i've listened to a few
podcasts now people sharing their something the, game and so
many people are saying, that, like, oh, yeah you can
skip the first game and just play the second. One,
No i'm, like what the f is wrong with the,
Guys like maybe they haven't finished the game, yet but

(01:08:23):
now that especially we, have it's, like, man this Die
hardman twist is gonna be a flat zero for people
who have not played that first, game and even for
us who have. IT i was, like withn't like the biggest,
reveal but at least we can look back on it
and be, Like, okay well there is some present for
who this character.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Is but, YEAH i don't know if somehow you've gotten this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Far in the, podcast like play the first, game people are, saying,
oh the game plays so much better this time. AROUND
i kind of, Disagree, LIKE i think it's like a
boat as good as the first game the gameplay, Wise
so it's, like go play the first, game you, know
if you, don't if you don't like the gameplay either,
one then just watch it on, YouTube i, guess but
like you need to play the first.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Game it's it's, yeah very.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
Relevant the only people that say that again to me
are those people that really Love Mental Gear solid and
they want more of. That SO i guess if you're
a person that just skips the like you don't care
what cut, scenes or people that do just skip cut
scenes because they're out, there there's people that like just are,
HEY i want the, gameplay THEN i could see. That
but to, me it's weird because this feels very much
like A dune one To dune, two where they feel very,

(01:09:17):
connected like it's a, sequel but it feels very much
just like the next. Part so any Reviews i've heard story,
wise everyone saying you get suit the first, GAME i
think that's an asinine. Recommendation, obviously if you're listening to,
this you would know that. Already but it's, yeah that's
that never made sense for me unless you're just playing,
GAMEPLAY i. Guess so, yeah, YEAH.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
I guess we can kind of talk about The indian
seasons of the game that kind of leadsten to discussion On.
Higgs but, yeah as you, mentioned we go to the,
beach we're on the. Beach it's you know in the
title right, there the Shared beach of the four, thousand
AND i do agree with.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
YOU i think that is a cool.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Idea LIKE i like the lore of, that AND i
think it actually does kind of makes sense within the
crazy nonsensical world that is de. Stranding but if four
thousand people die all in the exact same place at
the same, time it makes sense that there could be
some connectivity between, them AND i think it makes for
a cool set. Piece, obviously get like a Full kaiju sequence.
THERE i love The magellan just being applied as like
a helmet onto a onto a giant bet to like

(01:10:14):
take over and then you can get like the little
heart man like plus, thing not plus thumbs up, thing
which which is it's very. Goofy BUT i enjoyed it
and like especially when that first, happens and Like i'm
so that it's like a pheromone now WHENEVER i hear
The magellan little sound, effect and so when that is
popping up when The magellan comes to save the, Day
LIKE i thought that was a really really cool, sequence

(01:10:37):
AND i like the combat, there and that's OBVIOUSLY i
think prior to that, scene you're given the guitar and
you could have used, it BUT i just didn't use
it BECAUSE i was, LIKE i don't know how it
works That i'm scared to use. It but in that
sequence you're forced to use, it and it's a cool.
WEAPON i think, it's you, know a fun multi. Tool of,
course you can swing it like a melee, weapon or
you can charge it. Up you can do like fast
blasts like if you're shredding on the. Guitar SO i
really like that that as an, item AND i like

(01:10:58):
that you're kind of forced to use it, there and uh,
YEAH i mean there's what four or five phases to
The higgs boss, fight like specifically at the end sequence,
Here so, UH i don't.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
KNOW i GUESS i throw of you here to talk
About higgs's ennying. Sequence there's a whole lot in. There
but where do you want to go?

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
First, yeah from all that stuff you, mentioned that's WHERE
i mentioned the first, episode just these scale and things
That i'm, like that's an epic proportion where we see
stuff in games all the time and still Like i'm thirty,
two think About turn thirty two play log, games not
all of, them BUT i feel like it's sometimes rare
and almost anything right a, MOVIES tv. Show it's like
there's so much content Just i've already consumed in these thirty.

(01:11:34):
Years for, me it's hard to sit, back like, wow
that Whole Beach ending of just the big bets and
you're like The kaiju battles and, stuff and like you,
said The Magellum dogg says they had like all of
my this is just fucking this is crazy stuff going
on right. Now this Is matt and this is stuff
where it's just. Ridiculous where the first game had some big,
moments but this was like The Beach ending with all like.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
One of those big ets at the end OF ds.
One this this is kind of like it's kind of
like The rise Of skywalker situation of just like, okay
now there's like one hundredth death exactly the things are.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
Going and now you got. One so it's again that's
Where i'm watching. This i'm, like okay, AGAIN i can
see the cinematic movie stuff all over. It the, Guitar,
yeah that's The kajima weirdness. STUFF i like Where, okay
the Whole hartman comes intoing a dance that doesn't work for.
Me but the idea Of, Hey higgs can make his own, weapons,
Right so he's, just, Oh i'm gonna make a guitar
because he played guitar in his real, life, Right And

(01:12:30):
i'm gonna make a, guitar and now it's gonna be
a weapon that to me fits a. Character and that's
where it's, like it makes no sense for you As
hit or you And sam Versus higgs have a final
boss battle where you're fighting with guitars and you're strung along,
notes but it makes sense Because higgs has made this a.
Weapon so that's where in the.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
World then we're on the beach, now so things are
weird and can be, weird and it's a little more.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
Okay AND i love all that. Stuff the only thing
again kind of like what we talk about the first.
Episode it falls back into that to, me the Right
skywalker thinking, like, okay that things being, bigger that's. FINE
i hate it and not. HATED i wish there was
a different way who did it where it was just.
Okay it's because EVEN i love the moment When higgs
got destroyed with the guitar and fragile he got he

(01:13:11):
looked in the camera and, said no boss battle this,
TIME i was, like, oh that's, fun that's. Cool but
then you, know give a couple, hours you still do
that boss, battle right because and that's that's the tough
thing WHERE i remember in the first game when we
got that With higgs and we were on the beach
and those health barts came up to, me that was like,
this that's another thing that this is. Amazing that's SOMETHING
i would never thought it was coming up in this

(01:13:31):
moment where when it happens, again it doesn't have the same.
Impact it kind of just feels like like reheated, Leftovers, Like,
okay we've done, This SO i wish there was a
way to do a boss battle but make it a
little bit. Different but the whole scene of them fighting
on top, Whatever and LIKE i, said when the baby comes,
in AND i liked all Of higgs's backstory as far
as you, know he finally kind of came to peace

(01:13:53):
where he just because he had even with this character
for almost a, year he's alone on a bit like
what that does to. Somebody and that's WHERE i like
the differences Of higgs here and, there because you, go
why is he chewing the? Scenery why is he a
bit more. Crazy it's, like, well, yeah because he was
secluded for a year by himself on a beach with
nothing until it's been like a lot longer than. That well,
YEAH i don't know because well MAYBE i think he said,

(01:14:17):
that BUT i think for us it's been eleven. Months
but where he is time, WISE i think it's like
an inception thing where it's moves slower for. Him so
you're right because it in that, sense that's WHAT i
mean THAT i like. That and then these four thousand
people find him in Unleasham so and LIKE i, SAID
i Thought Troy, baker especially near the end, STUFF i
thought he was just just going for LIKE i, SAID
i that's my prediction right. NOW i think he's winning

(01:14:37):
The Acting, award come The Game. AWARDS i think he
was JUST.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
I wonder if the only argument of gains THAT i
can see is that it's, Like, okay you got to
get like forty hours into this game before you get
into like that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
Really, yes juicy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Stuff and maybe you know that's a because a lot
of people still don't like the gameplay of Dust randing
and might not get to that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Point so But mad's got it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
Right mad's won the game that, won AND i know
it's different because he's.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
Been Troy baker is like, us just that, name you,
know he's the. Guy yeah he did he win For.
INDY i think he did win last year For, indy,
right so.

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
OH i can't. Remember you're probably, right but, yeah that's
the thing for me WHERE i agree with you the
first after she's, like, okay, yeah just regular. Hits but
the back, HALF I I i loved how how crazy he,
was LIKE i, said you, inceerer but THEN i loved
how kind of sad and melancholy he got got the
end and anytime you kind of invoke That Batman joker,
thing that's where he kind of has With, sam where

(01:15:25):
he's just like he's got nothing, else so his life
is just like it's a perfect match Where higgs is
a possessed beach demon And sam SOMEONE i can't. Die
so it's, like, Well i'm just gonna we're gonna do this.
Forever and then obviously you Know. Higgs if there is
a desk eRating, THREE i do hope we don't See
higgs CAUSE i think it's it's a good. Time yeah
we've been, there done, That but to, me really enjoyed

(01:15:48):
all that, stuff like he, said could have could have
used a bit more variety in some of the boss.
Balls so but, yeah that. GUITAR i love using it
post the game BECAUSE i love that you can make.
It BECAUSE i was really worried when you get back
in regular gameplay the guitar is not on. You it was,
like oh, no, like can't just be used? There but then,
no you can go and build. It and that's the
first THING i. DID i, yeah AND i which was
tough BECAUSE i did not have a lot of resources

(01:16:09):
BECAUSE i lost a lot of. Them but love the,
guitar AND i love going into like recovery missions and
just AND i just imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
It takes like chiral, crystals like to just. Shoot is
that how it?

Speaker 3 (01:16:19):
Works? Yeah it. Does. Yeah so that's where NOW i
collect those a lot. MORE i hope there's some sort
of vehicle update THAT i can get that that would
pick them up.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Randomly like the fact that the truck doesn't is so,
aggravating especially because you get the you get like the latcher,
thing but it doesn't pick up the. Crystals that's where it's,
like Sometimes i'm, like MAYBE i will use a bike
BECAUSE i need to be collecting more of these because
you can just scoop those up as your D.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
Yeah, so AND i don't. KNOW i think there's just
something in my headcans something. Funny when you're going to
like a base to recover, something you just pull up
this guitar and just imagine what these random you, know
soldiers or bad guys are. Thinking SO i love THE
i love the, guitar the. Charge the charge takes a little,
bit AND i liked. THAT i thought that was a
good mission of him standing on all the monitors and
you shot, like this is a fun little boss battle,
thing and so that that to me would have been.

(01:17:01):
Fine Uh but, yeah, OVERALL i end up Enjoying higgs
a lot more BECAUSE i when they Brought higgs, back it's,
LIKE i don't know if we need to go back.
HERE i get That troy is a big, name but for,
ME i thought he did something a lot different with the.
Character and that's also the writers as, well that they
found a way for me to be invested in.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
Him so, yeah, YEAH i Think i'm more mixed on.
IT i do still think there are a lot of
great moments and parts of those boss fights are quite.
FUN i MEAN, i AS i, MENTIONED i really like
that first like Storm storm the gate kind of section
of the beach sequence and that in that first. Area
BUT i think really my criticism of the gameplay there is.
Everything it just takes like a little bit longer THAN

(01:17:39):
i wanted, Too LIKE i wish all the health parts
were like half what they, are and maybe maybe it's
a brutal, difficulty so maybe that was part of. It
but like you, know when we get to the point
when we're doing like the fighting game like TWO d,
thing it's, Like, okay this is fun for like a,
minute but then when when, then when like the health
pool is big enough THAT i just have to slowly
slog through. It it's, LIKE i guess that's probably part
of the. Nerave they want you to feel exhausted and,

(01:18:01):
tired so maybe it makes.

Speaker 3 (01:18:02):
Sense it's not a challenge at all, either, too, RIGHT
i just feel like you're just kinda.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
Be even, Brutal like none of that sequence is a.
Challenge and, honestly there was one or TWO bt fights
that were hard for, me but like anytime you had
to fight the giant like tentacle like, creature because you
have to do it like two or three, times or
any of the big mech ghost mech like.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
Boss, fights all those were like extremely. EASY i, found
LIKE i never any point was like any in any
sort of danger or close to close to. Death and
that was kind of the same thing with all The
higgs fights at the end is none of them were
really a challenge at, all which is which is, FINE i.
GUESS i don't.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
Know i'm not too worried about BECAUSE i did want
to get to the story beats at that, point BUT
i maybe wish the game like BECAUSE i mentioned on
the first, episode like this game definitely lacks difficulty and
it feels like that's maybe a point where you ratchet
up a little bit of that go.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
Ahead. Oh the only one that had issues on THAT
i BECAUSE i UNTIL i figured it out and what
to use uh that. There it's near the end of
when you do fight you complete the. Mission at the
mission is When higgs Gets sam and he does a
thing where LIKE i, said he sets you on fire
and you keep coming back and stuff that defend the base.
MISSION i was dine a few times, before but that's

(01:19:13):
BECAUSE i was not using the rocket launcher on. Those
because those mechs that are like the spiders that like
jump around. Everything those were fucking me, up AND i was,
like what AM i doing? Wrong BECAUSE i was using
the greenad, launcher because The grenada launcher on The red
mechs or whatever that was LIKE i, said three to four.
Shots sometimes if you nail nail perfectly and they're big enough,
radius you can mark them. Down but on like the spider,

(01:19:34):
ones THOSE i don't eat like SEVEN.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
Plusu as soon as you kill one of them too
and you go grab its gun and then use its,
gun it just destroys everything else like It'll it'll kill
another one of those things in like half a.

Speaker 3 (01:19:47):
Second and that was the other thing THAT i realized that. One,
okay use the Big, guru BECAUSE i feel like at
this POINT i did not have the girl or the
it's not The grenadi. Launcher what is the the quadruple,
RIGHT i did not have that just equipped in my
regular truck because Like i've said, BEFORE i don't care
how many weapons on. Me i'm like a bowl of
gun LIKE i try to place like the silent sneak,
way so the second that was laying, AROUND i use,

(01:20:08):
It and, okay that's WHY i use. It when you
get that. Gun that was another moment WHERE i felt,
like there's that scene in the First guards Of galaxy
when it's green rocket And grew gets that a rocket
gets that gun when they're in the prison and he's
like oh, yeah and he like he like charges. Up
that's that was. ME i literally get, like oh, Yeah
and that's where it's, like, okay ONCE i figure out
the strategy of, okay quadruple the spider get the spiders.

(01:20:30):
Thing then it was a. Breeze so that thing where
it's like not like an, UNLOCK i just wasn't doing.
It but that was the only One i'd say was.
Challenging and next was the. Bridge but the bridge WHEN
i never, DIE i just got that was CLOSEST i
got to Low, amo BUT i luckily killed one then went.
Forward but that those were the two so.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Nice, Yeah and THEN i think, narratively you've brought up
a lot of the good things AND i agree with.
Those with the final, SEQUENCE i think my only criticism
there was it just became a bit too close to
the narrative of the first game of Like higgs acquiring
AN e and extinction event and then like pretty much
doing the same. Thing there just with like a different,
character so just felt, Like, okay we're kind of we're

(01:21:09):
kind of replaying the classics here a little bit instead
of something new and.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
Fresh and that's WHERE i.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
WAS i think throughout the, GAME i was hoping That
higgs would not be like the primary, villain and he
kind of, did but then it's also kind of shrouded
between like a past four thousand and this kind of
group as you're, mentioning which is kind of like this
one larger, entity but, like obviously he's kind of the
face of, it even though we had this president, character
but he's kind of kind of the face of.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
It so, YEAH i don't.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
KNOW i GUESS i was hoping for something a little bit,
Differently BUT i do think that there are some good
moments in their, OVERALL i kind.

Speaker 3 (01:21:38):
Of think the, better you, KNOW i liked what they
end up doing With, higgs BUT i kind of thought
the better narrative wrote with him would have been for
him And sam to maybe team up to take this thing,
down you, know because that would have because especially at
the end when he's kind of just saying, like, oh
like they he was a, weapon they just point, right
they even say That i'm, like, well we just need
to get some of your attention and caused some. Destruction

(01:21:58):
if he would have kind of realized is that he,
was you, know almost Like, doman where he's a puppet
in this whole.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Thing BUT i, think BUT i think the other angle to,
it AND i thought this part was particularly powerful is
like he was talking about how he's been alive for so,
Long like that's one of the primary reasons why he
wanted to create the extinction in the first, place because
he was just, like he just wants to.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
DIE i think that's where that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Was like, narratively once, again there's so many similarities Between
sam And, higgs obviously in the ending, sequence like particularly
when you get down to that final like side by
side guitar battle, sequence and they both have like the same,
hair they both look the exact same they're, having they
have the same. Weapon obviously they're trying to make those
parallels pretty. Similar but like going back to the start
of the game Where sam is just trying to kill

(01:22:39):
himself and that's kind of exactly What higgs is doing. Too, True,
yeah so really dark and so obviously drying those comparisons,
There but, YEAH i THINK i just don't think it
would have really made, Sense like this is kind of
All higgs has ever, won AND i think in the
first game there was less nuance to, it and now
we got a bit more of that nuance because we
get some of this backstory going on with, him and
so that's that's good to, have but it's unfortunate, that, like,
well when you boil it down to like the actual

(01:23:00):
actions of, it it is pretty much the exact same
as the first, game or at least like that ending
sequence With amilee herbing the extinction event in that, case
in this case it Being tomorrow Or, lou.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
Which again that was another THING i thought was coming in,
again where that he Had omiley's, bracelet meaning what's His
Higgs and then then you had to go back to your,
sanctuary your home to find, that and it like find
some omally to get you. THERE i like that, again
just settle so LONGLY i thought the whole, time she's coming. Coming,
no it was just kind of like a. SHADOW i

(01:23:32):
did really. Enjoy two THINGS i don't THINK i mentioned
is the first. GAME i love the first time you
go to your home and there's all the BET's around
And lou's grabbing, him like what the hell's going? On
then when it's just like a, holgrom, like oh that
what a, cool great, idea like you put a bunch
of beats for people from your. House but the other
PART i liked is when you go back near the
end of the game and, all and this kind of

(01:23:54):
helped me a little bit with that twist in the
middle of the Whole oh, lo you Know Sam lou is.
Dead he hadn't figured it out when he goes back
and you, know he just walks in his place and
he's have all these. Memories and then When sam walks,
out you can see the entire house is just like
looking Like Resident evil seven, biohazard where everything's messed, up it's,
bad it's, dark where when he walked in it just

(01:24:15):
looked like the normal place With. Lou so that did
help me a little bit Of, okay maybe this maybe,
Again sam is not only because a, tragedy but he
has some, mentally you, know some mental illness that he
might not be able to process this stuff the best. Way,
again wish we could see more of, That BUT i
did like that scene where, oh you, know he's having

(01:24:36):
these good times that he. Walked it's just, dark, like oh,
damn you.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
Know, yeah good, call, call let's take our last ad
break of the. Show we're mostly through the, STORY i
think at this. Point but, yeah we'll be right. Back,
okay we are, Back SO i guess what we have
left we have to talk? About, yeah the kind of
very ending sequence with. Tomorrow lo is there anything other

(01:24:59):
than that story wise that we haven't talked on, yet
or any of the other, characters any like main story.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
Characters uh, no like you already mentioned, it but like you're,
talking we're talking about like emotional scenes. WHATNOT i did
actually thought that scene when they show everybody in a
circle and whatever That nether realm was that really hit.
Me that was like of loving the first, game like
even seeing mama and her sister everybody that's like a
full circle Of, Okay I'm I'm i'm seeing a moment

(01:25:26):
right here that that one hit me of being all.
Connected and AGAIN i didn't love how it, worked but
at least that kind of worked for me a little
bit With Neil van of, Like, okay lots of stuff didn't,
work but the idea of this baby comes into the you,
know Beach nether realm and he's gonna protect it because
that's the love of his life's, daughter and it's, like,
OKAY i could boy like that worked for, me is

(01:25:49):
at least With Neil van it's SOMETHING i can say
positively so because in that, circle it's kind of LIKE
i don't Know, sam you know the guy Because sam's
wife's don't even that, circle and it's, like Does sam
want the guy who you know is having A pharah's
wife and Sirl but it makes sense because that guy
Got lou back right like he Protected lou in a way,
Too so it's, like, okay, AGAIN i like that where
it's like they all have these issues and, conflicts but

(01:26:10):
they all came. Together so, no there's. That i'm trying
to think if there's Anything, yeah LIKE i, said nothing normally. Die,
okay here's one. Too in the we'll talk about in
that kind of montage Like Austin fragile's, gone and then
at the end we'll talk about they reveal certain things very,
odd especially we'll talk about in the second if there's

(01:26:30):
gonna a third one very hot THAT I i Thought
hartman was gonna get like a happy ending or an.
Ending it felt like he still, didn't, right because it's still.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
YEAH i predicted our last upsod that he was dying
and he didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:26:44):
And he didn't find his, family because the whole point
is he's gonna find a, beach and when he finds that,
beach he's gonna track and he's gonna die and then
join his. Family SO i, thought especially With kagema being, like,
hey at, first we'll talk about his new. Quote but
at first he's, Like i'm not making a third. ONE
i was, like, WELL i feel like he had close
off all these loops and that's that kind of sucks
That hartman's just still just out, there just trying to
find his. Family maybe that's just like WHAT kuldi even want, it,

(01:27:04):
right he just wants like a character that's kind of.
Tragic BUT i thought that it's, weird like Even rainy
gets like an ending Where hartman. Doesn't He SO i
helped out see you, later you, know so oh, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
Yeah that was a CHARACTER i felt like they were
doing a lot with when like he wasn't in the
first half of the, game but once you get to
his lab and you connect with, him and then in
like that second half of the, GAME i feel like
the first chunk of, it there's there's a lot of
stuff going on. There there's even obviously the sequence with
Dead man when he's kind of going around the ship
and he's a little bit suss and you're, like, oh
what's going on? Here and then it finds, Out, okay

(01:27:36):
Dead man and him have been communion and talking through
this like hidden realm and all that makes. Sense but,
yeah then you're. RIGHT i feel like there's even that
sequence where he's like going to the beach to try
and track Down higgs and he's like not really able
to do it or. Something he's like he like doesn't
know where they are or something like maybe he doesn't
find them. EVENTUALLY i forget what the plot point, is but,
yeah he kind of kind of just like there for

(01:27:57):
that ending. Sequence it feels like Dead man's taking more
of the controls at that. Point he's like making more
choices or having more like say on the. Dialogue but,
yeah you're. RIGHT i think it's a kind of kind
of odd where we leave off with With hartman at
the the end of.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
It, yeah, yeah, OKAY i, guess, yeah let's talk about
some of this. Sequel, Sequel so, yeah can you remind
me on that quote that he said about a sequel?
Situation what was?

Speaker 3 (01:28:22):
That So i'll, paraphrase but he pretty much said, that
you know, There i'm not gonna make a third. GAME
i have an idea for a, third but that could
be for someone. ELSE i will get the official quote
what we're talking, about but it's just pretty much, That
and that's WHERE i guess that's what, this uh maybe idea,
is because he didn't want to Say ossie as a game's, launching, like,
oh this is what he, did but he SAID i

(01:28:43):
had you, know let's, see uh reddit article originally. Deleted my,
Goodness so, yeah it's.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
WORSE i mean, yeah going going off, THAT i mean,
Yeah i'd be really interested to see if he does
hand off this ip to someone else with this in
the PlayStation family or moves. ELSEWHERE i would be, really,
yeah really curious to see which company takes it. Over
AND i THINK i would be down for that potentially gameplay,
wise to just, See, okay how does another studio take

(01:29:11):
like this core porter type.

Speaker 2 (01:29:13):
Mechanic delivery. Mechanic what do they add to? It what
do they strip?

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
Away do they make the combat a little bit more
interesting BECAUSE i don't think it's great in this. Game
there's more of, it but it's not like fantastic by any.
Means BUT i think for, me like what would make
the most sense is obviously there's so much dialogue and
theming around connection in this, game and you're kind of
you have these multiplayer mechanics where you're kind of interacting
with other players in a roundabout. Way but obviously with

(01:29:38):
the setup Of lou becoming a porter, HERSELF i feel
like it's kind of ripe for a co op game
where you'd have two players at the same time playing
As sam And lou doing deliveries, together and who knows
what kind of antics that would add to the. Gameplay
but like The, goofy WHEN i was, THINKING i can
only think of like Physics goofy physics y, Games But

(01:30:00):
i'm thinking of, like you know how at some point
in these stories you have to carry a body to
to like the incinerator or. Something, well, now what if
you had to like carry a stretcher as like two
of you as are going up the side of a
mountain and all this kind of. Stuff So i'm sure
there could be some interesting mechanics added in there for
a co op, thing SO i think that could be the.
Case or you just switched over To lou and she
has like slightly different, powers.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
Different, mechanics so you switched up a little, bit but
you still keep that core gameplay loop.

Speaker 1 (01:30:26):
There and, YEAH i, MEAN I i'm down for a.
SEQUEL i Think i'm not super duper hot on, This
like it's. WEIRD i still want to play this, game
AND i, LIKE i like just mess around in, it
BUT i do feel like it's a lot it's this
game has overall been a lot less impactful for me
than that first game. WAS i know a lot of
that is like that the story really let me. DOWN
i THINK i explained a lot of those reasons why

(01:30:46):
and all those sequences.

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
There that we just talked.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
About but, Yeah i'd be down for More Death, stranding
BUT i THINK i. Am i'm ready For kajima to
do something else right. NOW i don't, know maybe he
never comes back To Death stranding because he's getting. Older
who knows how many more games he's gonna make it a,
lifetime you.

Speaker 3 (01:31:00):
Know, yeah so the official quote, was, yes oh you
Make Dester anthony, SAYS, i of course don't have any
plans to do, that BUT i already have a concept
for another. Sequel i'm not going to make, myself but
IF i pass it on to someone, else they could
probably make. It and that's WHERE i am BECAUSE i
kind of feel LIKE i because it's funny that that's
where you took. It the multiplayer. ROUND i took it
as what would be, new AND i think this again

(01:31:23):
for you and even myself might end up liking it
less IS i feel like the new stuff would be
being a porter but having all those abilities That lou
has right like in those fight. Scenes, AGAIN i think
that gets it. More in the middle gear, STUFF i
guess that makes it more action, y but that is
something where it's, Like, okay you could make the bet

(01:31:44):
situations the boss bous much grandier because it's not While
sam with guns and blood. Bags it's your. Loo you
can tell report from floor to, floor you can use the.
Bat SO i think especially, too like even the first,
game WHEN i replayed or watched the movie, again and
that's like the first talking About, higgs when you get
introduced this idea of, oh is his dooms are so

(01:32:04):
in touch that he can control these. BT's that's a
very like rare thing they talk, about, right that the
fact that he's so in. Tunes so the idea THAT
i think that's something you could do where you could
be like riding A bt instead of a bike and. Everything,
LIKE i think there's tons of things you could do
with THE bt and lose powers.

Speaker 1 (01:32:20):
And it can almost be like Like prey where it's,
like depending on how many of these LIKE bt type
upgrades you, take it has an effect on your character
and the story. Overall whereas if you just like maybe
don't mess around with any of THOSE bt upgrades in
the skill, tree you know your character stays more pure
or something that could.

Speaker 3 (01:32:36):
Be or even the packages right you can get you
can get to place as much faster than a, vehicle
but there's still gonna be SOME bt juice and slime on.
These so like you, know if you want to get
them done, quickly, sure but if you want those legends
of legends, legends you don't want to be using THE bt, thing,
right that would be almost a great way of the
way when you use the, pagellants, like, well your grade
will be. Lower same. Thing it's, like, well you could

(01:32:56):
you could just fast. Out you could be like The
flash and get across it like nothing with A bt
but you're gonna damage these bagg or it's just gonna,
have LIKE i, said some of the juice. There so for,
me that's the ROUTE I i think they would. Take
and it's funny, because like in that ending when she
WHICH i thought was, great, right all the times they
go to. It the first time in the, game it's
Just sam sitting on that mountain with Young. Lou the

(01:33:18):
second time they go it's When lou's, gone he's, alone
and then the third time it's When lou's grown, up you,
know a woman doing her own part. THING i think
that kind of cycle is really good. There and to,
me that's where WHAT i THINK i want. More and
even with you know what happened With, LOU i still
like the. Story i'm down for a complete just almost

(01:33:39):
like destraating one game of like very similar the whole,
thing but just different, character different. Story i've said this,
before even with the, Movie i'm down if they want
to just it's something in the, world but it's a
PORTER i think there. Is you could do a great
hour and a half movie of just someone having to
get from point a point being dealing with BT's you
don't got to deal with the extent with the what

(01:33:59):
are they, called yeah, exactly or like what's it Like.
Higgs you don't need to go That. Graniose you can
just do the. Simple, HEY i get this package through
Time fall and all this. Stuff so that's where for,
me the low THING i really like is to, me
and that's where it WOULD i would hope that it's not, like,
Oh ragile's back And higgs. BACK i would like it just, be,

(01:34:20):
hey you Know lou.

Speaker 1 (01:34:21):
Story that was the setupally hard story to trunkate down
to two hours.

Speaker 3 (01:34:25):
Or, less like, oh exactly, right but that's different for
the third. GAME i would love it that's just, like,
hey you Know lou, story but now she's gonna go
on her own story like complete kind of like WHAT
i Mean tarry's about With Star, wars where it's, like
that's why we want That ray movie because we'd love to, See,
hey let's See ray do something that's just on our own,
now new, villains new, characters see what she gets. Into
and that's What i'd like for this if like, okay

(01:34:47):
that that's WHERE i would like where you could, say,
hey you don't have to play desk dreading one and
two because this is completely, new maybe you bump, in
even though to, ME i guess not that much time has.
PASSED i almost read it as Like sam was dead
the way the ending was. Going it just read to
me like sometime it passed and he just wasn't. Around
BUT i liked that they showed That rainy had her,

(01:35:07):
baby so that's. Nice she got a happy ending. There
but THAT'S i very much want that game BECAUSE i
think it's the perfect setup of very much like what
they're doing With, witcher where now like in the next
game series of main character where it's, like, hey you
know this character, story you can kind, of you, know
refer back to some of. That but my hope Is
seri's gonna go have her own new. Adventure and that's

(01:35:28):
WHAT i want for Lou. So and that's where Maybe
kajima is more fine with stepping aside of, saying, hey
his his death streading Was sam's, story, right where this
is like, okay not that he doesn't care about lou but,
okay you want to go do your own, thing that's completely.
Fine kind of like it's similar like a like A
I'll Ridley scott To James Cameron aliens right where you,
know they tackle similar, things but they're on their own.

(01:35:50):
Trajectory SO i really hope and this game sold really.
Well it's reviewing very, well SO i hope that or
like at least so, like you, know as far as
like compared to the first when, Everything SO i really
hope we get the third. One And i'm completely fine
if it's Not, kajima even THOUGH i would say it's
like The Tarantino tennant film. Thing if you were to
tell me That kajima does make the third, GAME i

(01:36:11):
would not say it's, impossible because at the same, TIME
i could see people.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
Like he'll be involved in it to such an extent
anyway that, like over time he'll just become so so.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
Involved with, it it's like he might as well be the.
Director you.

Speaker 1 (01:36:23):
Know that's the Tough it's hard to differentiate the The
kajima isms from this from this, Game LIKE i feel
like that's part of what makes it what it. Is
BUT i don't, Know maybe just the script would get you,
there and maybe it'd be interesting to see how someone
just taking the broad strokes but then like filling in
the details, differently how that would how that would look so.

Speaker 3 (01:36:41):
Yeah BECAUSE i do wonder if a situation where like
other people, working like like Maybe i'd like to come
back over there and see if you guys are. Working
but maybe it's just a story. Back because he's even
said that with the, movie WHICH i. Respect that's why
he might have this this mindset right of one to
two is his Like sam even stuff as lace to do,
right LIKE i would hope she's on a Third maybe to,
him he feels personally connected To fragile and now that

(01:37:03):
a lot of those characters aren't there that he's connected,
To he's, like do your own. Thing he said with
the movie when they were interviewing like press and they, asked,
oh are you gonna be much a part of the. Movies,
WELL i MEAN i give some notes And i'll see some.
Things but he's, LIKE i kind of just want them
to do their own thing and not feel Like i'm
looming over. THEM i, say, oh that's that's. Cool as
long as he goes through, that that's cool because that's
A and that's what makes me think the movie's not

(01:37:25):
gonna be About sam and. STUFF i think it's more
we're obviously there's some drama but like look At Neil
druckman And CASSIE i can't remember her last, name but
for seasons one and two they were very much together
With last Of Us crew right where TODAY i was, like,
huh just go do, whatever Like i'd like to know
what's going, on but you, know go make your. Movie
so that's where if the games like, That i'm, sure

(01:37:46):
and that's a good thing with It's Kajima, studios but
that's the, hope right as your studio is successful and
grows and that other people can go. On so in
a year or, two if they, announced, hey, Uh kajima
is just a, producer you, know you, know Develop a
is making this, game let's see what. Happens, great that
doesn't mean it's it's like with acause like the there's

(01:38:07):
countless times of if you look at like we talk
about all the time in Like New Vegas, fault, right
there's countless seven people going off to do something with
AN ip that could end up even being loved more
than the original. One. Right so for me, ESPECIALLY i
think it's set up in a perfect way where you
would play As Lou you're in like a new, path
and then a new person can take, over AND i

(01:38:27):
very much am hoping for this announcement where it's. Funny
with Des rat, TOO i was, like let's not do,
it let's not do. It but THREE i. Am I'm
i'm ready to be uh lou as a POOR i
think that could be tons of. Fun get al fanning,
back get some more Wood kid going. On you, know
she's sang a song, here which is. Funny not sure
if you've seen there's a. Circle there's a photo circling

(01:38:48):
around right now of Wood kid and her from twenty
sixteen and they're on a. Beach so everyone's, like, oh,
Man cage has been he's been plotting the whole. Time but,
YEAH i am very much in favor of a third
AND i hope it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:58):
Happens, yeah full. Power Uh, okay some random random notes
THAT i have here at.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
This point BECAUSE i think we've talked through all the
story stuff THAT i wanted to get, to mainly in
terms of, like obviously there's all sorts of the preppers
all over the, world and some of them have their
interesting little stories going. On one THAT i couple THAT
i really enjoyed THAT i didn't actually encounter during the main,
game but only WHEN i was going through knocking out
some of this kind of hundred percent completion. Stuff is
there's one guy named The. Boca he's In. Mexico SO

(01:39:29):
i don't think you're ever like sent to. Him the
only way you'd go to cause there's a few preppers
that you're never actually sent. TO i think the only
way you're you would connect them To Kyle network is
if you find some of their lost cargo and then
find where they live and they just give them the
lost cargo and then they'll be, like oh, cool thanks
for that connecting me to The. Cupid and So boca
is one who is he was he was a porter
once upon a. Time and when you first meet, him he's, like,

(01:39:52):
ah have you heard of the the man who? Delivers
the legend of The man Who, delivers which is Like
sam obviously and who he's talking about this and as
your love them, up he's kind of hinting at this.
Stuff and then when you get to the level, five he's, like,
Oh i've known. You i've known you're the guy the whole.
TIME i just you, know didn't want to like overwhelm
me with. THIS i don't want to be like fanboying
out and all this, stuff but he's kind of giving

(01:40:12):
you like porter, tips you, know tips he's learned over
the years being a.

Speaker 2 (01:40:16):
Porter SO i really like.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
That the other ONE i liked In mexico is the
artist who you have to unlock in a similar way
to find some o her lost, cargo take.

Speaker 2 (01:40:23):
It up the hill to.

Speaker 3 (01:40:24):
Her yeah and.

Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
Yeah the rewards she gives you are just like color
palettes that you can use to like change your trucks
and your like cars and your hats and like things
in This so, LIKE i like that as a. Reward
IS i like doing that little, customization and it's. Fun
as you're going through her different, missions she'll like send
you paintings that she's been, doing and then every time
you go back to her little prepper, den she'll like

(01:40:46):
hang the paintings up like in that little, thing and
then you can like put them in the magellum like
on the. Wall you can, like, uh you, know customize the.
Wall you can even like take pictures and then like
put those in there as well if you want custom.
Ones but it's cool that she kind of is setting
these pictures over the, Time SO i really like. THAT
i thought it was cool how there's you because like
you go To hartman's lab and then the THE i

(01:41:07):
forget the girl's, name but she like takes over for the.
Lab she's the one that always like, puking and but
then like she has like a, daughter the Mega commonomist
or whatever the heck that other person is who's Like.
South SO i like the little little points of. Connection
and apparently that actress is the wife Of, hartman like
that actor in real, Life like they're. Married so that

(01:41:28):
was kind of a fun.

Speaker 3 (01:41:30):
Because they kind of insinuate that they're an item in the,
game so they.

Speaker 2 (01:41:34):
Do, yeah, okay SO i LIKE i like. THAT i
like the little moments of.

Speaker 1 (01:41:38):
Connection So i'm excited to see more of these kind
of people that you don't have to save for the,
story or not save if you don't have to connect
for the.

Speaker 2 (01:41:45):
Story but they have their little narratives along the. Way
did you ever get a void? Out did you ever
get hit with a void out in this? Game do
you ever never? Happen, okay this.

Speaker 1 (01:41:55):
It happened for me once WHEN i was pretty much like.
Going it was from the, megagnomenous, RIGHT i always forget
that lazy.

Speaker 2 (01:42:03):
Name you're Going?

Speaker 1 (01:42:04):
SOUTH i kind of past the Tar lake to connect
that guy Like victor down, there That, prepper and there's, like,
yeah a bunch Of beaties in that whole, section like
just kind of the west or what be east of
the Tar. Lake and, yeah like this giant creature or
face or whatever it was swallowed me, up created a
huge void out. There so now there's just a, permanent
huge like crater on the map right WHERE i was.

(01:42:25):
There so, yeah that was like it swallowed me. UP
i caused the void out from my, body but then
Obviously i'm A, patriots SO i came. Back so, YEAH
i have not had a void out caused by LIKE
i accidentally did run over a porter once with my,
car but he just got knocked. Out he's, okay he
got up. Later and THEN i haven't like killed mule
or anything. Yet i've just knocked them, out, Right so,
YEAH i had no other void outs caused. There and,

(01:42:49):
yeah so the last EPISODE i was saying there's not
a lot of the super difficult sequences in the. Game
obviously a lot of those are in the, end particularly
just The Snowy mountain, Sequence like not the first time
you go to The Snowy mountains but like this second,
time after you're on like The south and you have
to go to the adventurer and then you have to
like go save the. Adventurer he got like lost up
in the. Mountains you got to go like pick his body,
up because like it took me so long to get

(01:43:10):
to his, base AND i used every last thing on my.
BACK i used every single, item and he doesn't connect
you to the. Network, yeah and so you have nothing
to get up, there SO i had TO i had
to reload a, SAVE i had to set up like
various zip lines and like redo that whole. Sequence and
SO i liked. THAT i liked that the game was
finally kicking my ass a little bit because at that
point it was so. Easy so, yeah obviously the snowy
sequences make it pretty. Hard NOW i have some good

(01:43:31):
equipment for, that And i'll have a lot more you,
know things connected to the. Network but that sequence in,
general and anything in the mountains is always. Fun in
the first, game it was, too just because it's like
such a high level the. Difficulty obviously there's like avalanches now,
too as you, mentioned which are very. Terrifying so, yeah
that was definitely the hardest sequence for me for.

Speaker 3 (01:43:48):
Sure, yeah that's WHEN i refer to an episode Like
i'll wait to get The. Snowymounts same thing WHEN i
had to get. Him lack of, chargers lack of, this
it's just lack of everything up, there so the same.
THING i. THINK i had to redo a saved and
then go. Back, HEY i gotta take this because so
many times it has been this, game WHICH i agree with,
You like it's an ave where it's, like, oh it's my.
VEHICLE i could just drive forward and power through. This you,
Know i'll get to the charge. BASE i had that approach, Like,

(01:44:10):
no this felt much more like first de stranding and, say,
OKAY i really got to map out Where i'm gonna do.
Here so, yeah that's that Adventure my. Goodness, yeah two.

Speaker 1 (01:44:19):
Sequences i'm curious how you handled. These one is the
first weapons, lab like the one that's near The motherhood
in like The Sandy. Desert you have to go, there
and that's obviously the first time you get the cut
scene when not well it's Dead man but you don't
know his Dead man, yet but he like The samurai
saves at the end when you got to crash those
like computer, monitors and then another one is like that
bridge sequence at the very end of the, game but

(01:44:39):
not necessarily the actual bridge, part but like the two
or three battles leading up to, that and then when
you get, down like right before you cross over the.
Bridge i'm, curious like what kind of strategies you employed
to kind of get through those two combat.

Speaker 3 (01:44:49):
Sequences grenade, launchers that's WHERE i. WAS i stocked up
on grenade, launchers picked up some, shotguns and that's and
the machine gun, specifically which was nice because WHEN, i you,
know did The deluxe, VERSION i got that a little,
earlier so some of those, missions LIKE i, had like
the leveled up, one but, yeah that that's primarily what it,

(01:45:11):
was was The Great An, launch especially because a lot
of those necks were, happening so that's where it's, Like,
okay they get taken down pretty, easily got a good.
Radius so, yeah any ANYTIME i was prepped with like
you're gonna have to go into, BATTLE i went into
with the with The great Add, launch WHICH i will
say on the way to the, BRIDGE i did like
that that mission of you have to you, know travel

(01:45:31):
a little, bit connect, something travel a little bit and
in the way there's mechs in the. Way that's when
they introduced the when you again another great like moment
of getting that big spider mecha and when you use
The magel attack for the first, time and it's just
a slow motion of just missiles everywhere and think they're like,
Okay i'm like this is this is awesome and you're
shooting the same. Time just very. Cinematic so, yeah, YEAH.

Speaker 1 (01:45:54):
I pretty much started any battle with like as much
of a high ground AS i possibly could and just spending,
grenade so like that bridge sequents on MY i finally
made it down there up ON i went up on
the hill as much AS i, could which is pretty
far from. It BUT i was just lobbing grenades even
more than like it would, show because't now when you're
like aim in your grenade, launcher it shows, you like
where the grenade's gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:46:11):
Hit it was like past that it was way out of.

Speaker 1 (01:46:13):
Range But i'm just like free eyeing, it pretty much
like When Tony stark loses his like tracking device, Thing he's.

Speaker 3 (01:46:19):
Like, OKAY i GOTTA i gottavon.

Speaker 2 (01:46:21):
It, yeah eye on.

Speaker 1 (01:46:22):
It so that was pretty much being that sequence WHICH
i couldn't kill everyone because some of them were too far,
away but at least thinned the, herd and THEN i
could go down there and take them out the other.

Speaker 2 (01:46:30):
Way and then the weapons.

Speaker 1 (01:46:31):
LAB i was able to sneak past like the first
couple of guys on the, outside AND i came from
like the south of, it and THEN i PUT i,
GOT i put some ladders up to get to the,
roof AND i just went up on the roof and
then just like camped out up, there and some of
them would like you, know they morphed through the ground
and then.

Speaker 2 (01:46:44):
Like popped up up.

Speaker 1 (01:46:45):
There but thankfully that was slow enough THAT i was, Like,
okay it's only one or two at a. TIME i
can shock on, them and Then i'm just hanging out
on the. ROOF i can find like really janky angles
where they can't hit, me BUT i can just pop
up and take them, out and then like through the.
Roof there's somebody holes on the roof too that you
can just like grenade launch am through the roof as.
Well so THAT i thought that was a really fun.
Fight DID i feel LIKE i cheesed it a, Bit
but even then it was still like a bit of

(01:47:05):
a challenge and took me a couple of. Tries so
there was a, yeah some points in the game that
had some good difficulty in. There, YEAH i felt like
pretty much all the mule camps were really. Easy LIKE
i ever really struggled much with the. Mules it's more
like more of The Ghost. Max did you encounter any
of the hot spring stuff going on in this?

Speaker 3 (01:47:22):
Game, No i've seen the clips And i've seen the, like,
oh you could go. THERE i never stopped to take
a moment, ago take a bath and everything like. That you,
KNOW i Guess I'll i'll do that and go to
The yotai IF i get that, One i'll see a
gin does that a. Lot but, YEAH i did not
do any hot spring in this.

Speaker 1 (01:47:36):
Time so, yeah it's it's a weird thing where like
outside of The motherhood entrance there's, like, yeah just a hot.
Spring you go into, it it's like a little cutscene
kind of, thing chilling. Out but then at some point
you like teleport and end up in a different point
in the, map and then and then you're like Near
hartman's lab and that lady's, like how did you get?
Here how did you get into my hot spring that's

(01:47:57):
inside my, house and then you like find out what's
going on here with the, science and then she's, Like,
OKAY i think we figured this.

Speaker 2 (01:48:02):
Out there's a way that.

Speaker 1 (01:48:03):
Like the hot springs can jump you through the beach
and you can teleport across the, map and then you
can like start finding them across the, MAP i, guess
which is like, cool but also, MECHANICALLY i can't really
think of many situations in which that would like actually
be very. Useful AND i think that's maybe my problem
with a lot of like the mechanics in this game
is like there's so many weird tools or, features but

(01:48:25):
it just feels, like, yeah but do you really ever
need to use, that or will that help or will
that be like more efficient than anything. Else BUT i
think it's a cool idea of, Like, okay the hot
springs can teleport you certain spots in the. Map you
have like the transponders you can, build which are like
just an equipment you can from the, piecs so you
can put down and those can teleport you to anywhere
on the map that you've put a. Transponder so it's

(01:48:45):
like a zip line pretty, much but just like globally
and THEN i think it's limiting how much cargo you can,
take and it's, Like, okay there could be some interesting
wave like those with the monoail that you can really
plan out your routes in interesting, ways but, LIKE i
just don't think that it would actually really work that
well because you're limited on a cargo or like what
would the purpose would. Be SO i don't know if
those things are better before you've connected everything to The chiral,

(01:49:07):
network and maybe like certain points in the story when
The magellan is locked, down BUT i think in the post,
game When i'm actually like trying to investigate some of these,
things they just seem like interesting little gimmicks but not
really that, Useful and so it feels like a bit
of a half baked system of like the fast traveling
because as we mentioned, before like The magellan can just
teleport to like most places on the, map well not anywhere,

(01:49:28):
obviously limited to like a prepper's, house but it just feels, like,
well that would kind of be the way to do,
it because then you can bring cars with, it you
can bring all your, cargo and you can build. Stuff
SO i don't, know feels a little half. Baked some
of the teleporting. MECHANICS i, guess, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:49:41):
They could have even done, It like you can teleport
to only a few, places but maybe that wouldn't have
docked your, gear you, know like when you traveling The.
Magellan but, YEAH i don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:49:50):
Why AND i feel like if you tell report The
magellan across the, map but then you deliver the stuff
really far, away you should still get like more points
than you get because, Like, OKAY i did teleport at some,
point But i'm still maybe you've even teleported further away
from your goal.

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
And traveled it even further so you near your. Stuff you, Know,
yeah that's not how it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:06):
WORKS i talked about this in the first episode we,
did But i'm a little disappointed with the weather stuff
BECAUSE i feel like it didn't Really it seemed like
a really great idea and a great evolution of the,
mechanics but then was once again a little half. Baked
AND i think the biggest downfall for me is there's
one point kind of just south.

Speaker 2 (01:50:22):
Of the desert.

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
Area there's a lot of like big rock, formations like
big rock, towers and one TIME i was driving through
them and there was like a gate quake and all
these rocks fell all around.

Speaker 2 (01:50:31):
ME a couple hit my.

Speaker 1 (01:50:31):
Car they were like blocking the path in every which,
way AND i was, like, damn that was really cool and,
interesting and Now i'm gonna figure out How i'm gonna
get out of here with my truck because it's like
a little. Labyrinth and then after like ten, seconds all
the rocks just kind of like faded, away like they
just like disappear from the. Map i'm, like, okay so
we did this, thing but then like it just like
kind of the consequences kind of faded. Away AND i
kind of feel like that's the case with all the weather,

(01:50:52):
stuff where it just never really impacted the, gameplay or
it hasn't yet within fifty. Hours so people disappointed with
some of the weather, caanics which they were a bit
a bit more.

Speaker 2 (01:51:01):
INTENSE i GUESS i.

Speaker 3 (01:51:02):
Agree they could have kind of put that slider a
bit up.

Speaker 1 (01:51:05):
Mhmm something with tomorrow THAT i don't know if this was,
intentional because it feels like a goofy Thing kajima would
do is obviously a Big the big thing they're showing off,
of like how her time follow her tar leakiness, works
is like they have these, apples and they're using that
to be, Like, okay here's you're seeing the progress of
the first time she touches the apple to immediately time

(01:51:26):
falls and, dies but then like over time she can
control that OR i couldn't tell if she could reverse
it or if that was More rainy was the one
that would like reverse it and then she could like practice.
Again So i'm not sure exactly what's going on, there
BUT i feel like there's a bit of, this like
the apple doesn't fall far from the, tree like a
bit of a hint there of like oh, yeah this
is Like sam's, obviously and then you get down to

(01:51:46):
the very end of the, game her being a porter
having the same job as. Him SO i don't, know
just like get. Interesting there's so much symbolism tied to,
apples obviously like, biblically but like SO i don't know
what if that if that was what it, is or
if it is WHAT i just, mentioned BUT i liked it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:59):
EITHER i thought that was. Cool something you hinted that
in the first episode was The Pizza, Chef so please
regale us with your tale of The Pizza.

Speaker 3 (01:52:07):
Chef OH i love that mission where, okay they do all.
Everything it feels like this is the most thought. Out
it's like porter thing you can do Where, okay you go.
There lots of the people won't connect to the, network
but if you give them, pizza they probably. Will So i'm, like,
okay that's a. Fun weird subplaws do that you go,
there and then when you randomly go, there it's not
LIKE i said up, like oh go, back there's something

(01:52:28):
wrong with the. Pizza it's just like you go there
for regular delivery and the pizza guy is not, there
and then all of a, sudden it's like the door
that's passed where the halground would, be you can go in,
it and that stuff where it's, like especially the first,
game that those would always be main cut scenes like,
oh come on. It it wasn't never just like just
just walk right. In and that's where it's, like, okay what's.
Happening you go in, there you find some of those you,

(01:52:50):
know red, necks you gotta fight, them and then you
go into WHICH i almost. DIDN'T i went past like
oh that's, weird AND i walked. OUT i almost did
not go on that, door but then like something more
has to be, happening looked around going the door and
you get like a full on kung Fu John, wick
like just full on choreographed fight scene where it's LIKE
i don't know If sam has a black belt in

(01:53:11):
like jiu jitsu or like karate kung, fu but he
does here and it's just a scene where they're. Flipping
it's like a, god, uh there's some oh what the
raid like that type of fighting style or even daredevil
where it's just fist hand and hand, combat, flips throwing pizza.
Dough they cook a pizza together and that's it brings them,
together and then it's, like, oh, actually, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:53:32):
Scene just like taking a bite of the.

Speaker 3 (01:53:33):
Pizza, yeah all those first pizzas that was just imposing as.
Me that wasn't actually. ME i would do, this, this,
This and then it just becomes like a Regular, okay
you can give him stuff and he gives you the pizza,
weapon Which i've still not got around to. USING i
think it's just you probably throw the dome and we
get like a little. Disoriented but that's the stuff Where
i'm HOPING i get more of. THOSE i don't know
how much more of those will, happen but that was

(01:53:55):
just such a great moment where it doesn't have to
be a half an hour hour long, thing like that's
a ten fifteen minute at most little subplot That i'm
gonna remember for the rest of my life when it
comes to death straying, too because it came out of.
Nowhere because even, then if it would have been, HEY
i think someone's wrong with the pizza, CHEF i would
have been going there, like, hey there could be, baggs
there could get. Guns the second you go in there

(01:54:17):
and these mechs pop, up it's, LIKE i don't know
WHAT i. Got Un LUCKILY i had insult rifle. Me
but it's just it's not like other times where it's,
like all, Right, sam time to suit. Up so. Beautiful
if we ever talked, about you, know best side missions
or little side, quests it's not really a side, quest
BUT i would count it because that, was, uh that
was enthralling BECAUSE i just came out a TIME i
GUESS i was not expecting anything like, that so loved

(01:54:38):
the pizza chef to.

Speaker 2 (01:54:39):
Area so, YEAH i totally, agree AND i love that.

Speaker 1 (01:54:42):
Sequence and, then AS i mentioned with like the artists
or The, boca, LIKE i just think so many, games
especially when you have like over forty preppers like this game,
has would just make a lot like make them just
a GENERIC npc character that has like the same dialogue
or the same look, even BUT i feel LIKE i
like that they all have a weird little, game whether
it is something simple Like pioneer or The, inventor or

(01:55:02):
you get like The Tar, therapist like over in the
far east side of the, map so you get the Ghost.
Hunter you get some like weird ones in there, too,
obviously like the the the v tuber one that we
talked about last. Time so obviously there's a lot of
weird ones in, There but so far of like really
enjoyed the little mini narratives we're getting from a lot of,
those and that's a good incentive for me to want
to go back and get five stars with all of,

(01:55:23):
them to see what other kind of dialogue or weird
things that will, reveal or just like cool equipment you'll
get along the way as. Well and it feels, like
as you mentioned at the, topic there seems to be
a lot of, That SO i think that's it's cool
that they kind of goes above and they.

Speaker 2 (01:55:34):
Beyond, obviously Like, kajima.

Speaker 1 (01:55:36):
His mind is overflowing with character, ideas and it's, LIKE
i feel like that this is the perfect way for, like,
OH i have a weird idea for a little quirk
for a, character and it's like it's not a full game,
storyline but let me just make them a prepper and depth.
STRIGHT i feel like he's been building this up for
decades probably and now has like a good point to
put them in.

Speaker 2 (01:55:52):
There so it's a perfect you.

Speaker 3 (01:55:53):
Know. Yeah and, again if they even said we're Making
Desk drank, three it's like a smaller like you know
they do Like Miles morales is that if they, said,
hey we're doing, that not really a, subplot just more
deliveries or not a main, plot just more deliveries and
you're gonna have a bunch of little interactions like, THIS
i would completely. PAY i would honestly play full, price
but whatever it, is, LIKE i would pay like the Half.

(01:56:14):
Bret it's like if they just, said, Oh destinating, three
be a small, thing lose a, porter you meet some
crazy characters we've thought over the, years perfect sign me,
up because that's that's fun, stuff like what's gonna? Happen
and then everyone kind of have their favorite porter and
this and that their favorite. Interactions so, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:56:30):
Any other notes on your document, there my.

Speaker 3 (01:56:32):
Friend, NO i think we hit them all OR i
brought them up in some fashion along the. WAY i
took a look at, it but nothing nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:56:38):
Else, yeah you, Know i've talked a lot about How
i'm pretty disappointed with the story in this game AND
i WISH i had like a bit more tension on
the gameplay side of, things like that first one. Did
but the reality, is, like, yeah not a lot of
games do we end up talking for like five hours
worth of. Podcasting you, Know like there's obviously a lot.
Here it's a really fun to break. DOWN i even
at when we're done here And i'm done editing this,

(01:56:59):
Episode i'm gonna go play a little bit more. Tonight
AND i, REALLY i really enjoy a lot of what's
going on, here AND i just think it's almost like too.

Speaker 2 (01:57:06):
Much and if the game.

Speaker 1 (01:57:07):
Would been like a little bit more confined and concise
and you, know send off some of the, EDGES i
think it could have been an all time Great but
instead it's still like just a game THAT i really enjoy,
playing which is nothing wrong with, That and, Yeah i'm
Down i'm down for. More so this is really fun and,
YEAH i Mean i'm still playing on playing a bunch
of this game and trying to get like all those
trophies we'll see BECAUSE i want to see all the

(01:57:27):
weird stuff that this game has to. Offer and So
i'm sure this won't be the last time we talk
about this. Game but this is a, really really great.
CONVERSATION i don't know what number to give. This i'm
not going to give it a number at this point in.
Time i'll hold. OFF i need to think on it
more and maybe complete some more side. STUFF i also
really want TO i just thought about this. Now but
THE vr, Missions i'm guessing you haven't jumped into any
of those, yet, Right and some of them are like,

(01:57:49):
tutorials but it seems like there are advanced, ones and
so that could be a cool idea of, like, hey
here's some of the weird gear that you're never really
forced to, use but in this like linear little. Mission
tried this thing, out AND i feel like the could
be so interesting stuff. There SO i just feel like
there's a lot MORE i need to check out with
this game BEFORE i can, really you, know throw the
hammer down on. It but, yeah any any final thoughts
On Death raining two because it might be a few

(01:58:11):
weeks before we kind of talk about this one of.

Speaker 3 (01:58:13):
Them. Yeah, No i'm excited to keep diving in the
world of. It it's gonna be a fun. Time i'm
glad that there's still is so many you, know preppers
THAT i got out, there AND i kind of keep
going for a while BECAUSE i did speed to the main.
Storylane but this is kind of like a nice little
sequel add. ON i was kind of hoping when we Got.
LOU i was hoping for A Red dead And Red
dead two situation where you're gonna switch over To lou

(01:58:35):
and that's but then if that, HAPPENED i would have
thought for sure none With. No, three BUT i thought
it was gonna. Happen but, no we're just still Playing,
sam so that's. Okay but, Yeah, No i'm excited to
go back to some stuff like you taught About mexico
Because i've my whole. Plans i'm doing the reverse WHEN
i Fish australia and then go back to my roots In,
mexico So i'll leave that the last but. Nice, Yeah,
no excited to see what's out there for. Me and,
YEAH i think the thing my score is still the

(01:58:55):
same about about nine. Ish somewhere in. THERE i got
some pros and. Cons there's sometimes WHERE i THINK i
could be like an eight point five because some story,
stuff but OVERALL i still got some big strengths. There so,
YEAH i know it's a world THAT i hope to revisit.
Again And i've been just bumping the score a. Lot
it's BEEN i add a lot of stuff to my liked.
One i'm thinking about being able to get into. Vinyls

(01:59:16):
they're releasing the vinyl In, september SO i might be
might be doing. That so, Yeah, NO i was very
happy back in the, world AND i hope this isn't
the last time at the point in my. Life but if,
not THEN i will happily at some point boot it,
up start, over and If kajima is ever like, yeah
De straanting is, dead you're never gonna, again then all,
right Then i'll find a way back.

Speaker 1 (01:59:36):
In.

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
YEAH i guess worst, case we were getting a movie
at some, points that'll be that. Too, yeah that'll be.

Speaker 3 (01:59:41):
Yeah that maybe the whole reason they make of their game.
Too it's just, like, oh, well we gotta true we
can make some, Money so, YEAH i. Would and that's
the other. Thing, YEAH i hope we do actually get that.
Movie it's not one of these development hell movies where
we keep hearing about.

Speaker 2 (01:59:51):
It so, yeah do you think we'll get a director's
cut update for this game at some?

Speaker 3 (01:59:55):
Point, oh that's tough because that's also a situation where
if they did like a LITTLE dlc, MISSION i could
see if they did like all this where you're gonna
play his lou but uh, yeah uh you, Know i'll
just say it's, actually here's What i'll. Say i'll say
yes to SOME, dlc but no to a director's. Cut

(02:00:16):
they might still call, that but the way directors cut
felt more, like oh they were fine. STUFF i think
they kind of did that throughout the. GAME i just
think they could add more stuff to said. Game but,
yeah BECAUSE i would have said. No BUT i thought
that last, time and when we GOT DLC a. SURPRISED i.

Speaker 2 (02:00:30):
Said it was like a car they added in the
director's cut that's not even usable in this, Game LIKE
i don't ever use. That. No, yeah SO i feel
like there's probably some more on the cutting room floor
that they.

Speaker 3 (02:00:39):
Can So i'll say. Yes in about you, know eight
months to a, year so.

Speaker 1 (02:00:45):
Nice uh and about time it takes for a baby
to go from conception to birth exactly ye.

Speaker 2 (02:00:53):
Or maybe into a.

Speaker 1 (02:00:54):
Pod you never know what happens in these, worlds uh
drives like you for joining me on these you, know
LIKE i, said five hours worth of death righting to you.

Speaker 2 (02:01:02):
Conversation this is a really great. Time thank you for.

Speaker 1 (02:01:04):
Listening next week we'll be talking about. You you Mentioned
Khosa sushima or khost Of yota. Earlier we'll talk about
that next week because there's a state of play happening for,
that along with some other games have been, playing other
any other news bits that. Happened so thank you everyone
for listening and we will see you again next.

Speaker 2 (02:01:20):
Time bye, bye

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