November 20, 2025 • 59 mins
Halloween Episode - Spirits with Spirits with Special Guest Chris Rutkowski - Episode 224
It was an honour to once again have Chris Rutkowski join us on stage and tell us some truly unique, interesting and definitely curious tales of Alien and UFO investigations that he has collected during his career as Canada's favorite UFOlogist! He shared details with us about the Falcon Lake indicent, what he knows about AI3 Allas, sightings in Sunddown, Manitoba as well as other tales that were personally devulged to him. He also was gracious to openly answer questions from the audience. We greatly appreciate Chris coming out and hope to have him more often, whether as a guest, a member of the Winnipeg Paranormal Group, or even as a participant of our audience at the King's Head in 2026!
C'mon down to the King's Head pub for 'Spirits with Spirits' - November 26 - next week Wednesday! This will be our last Spirits with Spirits for 2025!
Enjoy this week's new episode!
Music by Ruesche-Sounds https://www.youtube.com/channel/USqXO
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok & Redditt
If you have a local paranormal story of Winnipeg or in Manitoba, please email us at giivinguptheghostpodcast.@gmail.com - or if you just want to say 'Hi'!!!
It was an honour to once again have Chris Rutkowski join us on stage and tell us some truly unique, interesting and definitely curious tales of Alien and UFO investigations that he has collected during his career as Canada's favorite UFOlogist! He shared details with us about the Falcon Lake indicent, what he knows about AI3 Allas, sightings in Sunddown, Manitoba as well as other tales that were personally devulged to him. He also was gracious to openly answer questions from the audience. We greatly appreciate Chris coming out and hope to have him more often, whether as a guest, a member of the Winnipeg Paranormal Group, or even as a participant of our audience at the King's Head in 2026!
C'mon down to the King's Head pub for 'Spirits with Spirits' - November 26 - next week Wednesday! This will be our last Spirits with Spirits for 2025!
Enjoy this week's new episode!
Music by Ruesche-Sounds https://www.youtube.com/channel/USqXO
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok & Redditt
If you have a local paranormal story of Winnipeg or in Manitoba, please email us at giivinguptheghostpodcast.@gmail.com - or if you just want to say 'Hi'!!!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Anyway, you might get the idea if years old as
I am, and you know you're so busy you're spinning
plates on sticks and they're crashing to the ground. Anyway, Hey,
it's jazz and this is giving Up the Ghost podcast.
So that's sort of like my explanation, excuse reason, whatever
(01:04):
you want to call it for delayed episodes got kind
of lazy there after the hubbub of October. It was
a busy, wonderful month. Thank you so much to the
lovely ladies at the Winnipeg Paranormal Group, Ashley and Kelly
for always including myself and share and giving up the
ghost and all their public investigations. Couldn't be happier. I mean,
(01:24):
these girls do a wonderful job, and truly, from the
bottom of our dead, blackened hearts, thank you so much. Yeah,
so it's been a busy, crazy, hectic October. We're now
into that wasn't that was the foum stepping on In
case you heard something, We're there anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
So tonight's episode is from Spirits with Spirits our Halloween
episode October twenty ninth, with none other than world infamous
ufologist Chris Rotowski. Great talking to him. He's such a
funny guy, like he's so smart, so much information. He's
done so many investigations with respects to Alien's UFOs, you know,
(02:03):
even the paranormal because that's truly where he got his
roots and he's still part of the Winnipeg paranormal group.
So thank you, Chris, Thanks for coming out. We truly
loved having you. Anytime if you want to come out,
you come on down and share your stories or just
all around with the crowd. We'd love to have you.
Thank you again.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So that's tonight's episode, our interview with Chris at the
King'shead Pub Halloween Night. This is part one. Part two
should be coming out in the next few days. Speaking
of segus and spirits with spirits coming up. Our last
Spirits with Spirits for the year for twenty twenty five
(02:40):
is coming up next Wednesday, November twenty sixth I believe
does that sound right? Check out our socials for the information.
We had a couple of guests lined up. Unfortunately things
kind of fizzled, so in saying that we were going
to talk, well, we still have one guest potentially in
the works, but we will be talking all things Christmas
(03:02):
creepy crampus, right, like that's a thing. Come on out,
come share your paranormal stories. We'd love to hear ghost stories.
You know, that's what it's all about. No judgment. We're
here for you again. It's been a great year. It's
been a busy year. I may be taking a hiatus
in January. I'm thinking about further developing Macob Manitoba, the
(03:22):
other podcast I had for a limited ren last year,
just because Manitoba there's been a lot of shit going
on for the last one hundred and seventy five years.
I think, you know, crimes and murders and all that skullduggery.
So I might be doing that. And I've changed course
with a book that I had written. I was pursuing
(03:45):
getting agents to take a look at it, and I'm
a little deflated about that, quite honestly. So I am
going to go with the self published route after talking
with some people at different various markets, and you know what,
maybe it'll be a little bit more work, but I think,
you know, it'll be a little better. So coming up
(04:06):
there will be more information if you like vampire stories,
and this one is set in Winnipeg, Manitoba in the
eighties and that is called a taste for blood. So
once I have more details on that one, once it's
self published, I'll let you guys know. That is if
you like vampire stories. It's not everybody's taste, get it anyway,
(04:28):
enjoy this episode. Thank you again for listening to us,
and definitely if you want to get a hold of
us and tell us any of your ghost stories or
paranormal experiences, don't hesitate. Contact us at giving Up the
Ghost podcast at gmail dot com. And we are everywhere.
The podcasts or listen to downloaded around the world forty
three countries. Last I saw as Share says, we are
(04:51):
spread around the world. So any who enjoy today's episode,
and again, thank you, thank you, thank you, and remember
to live every day it is your last. But never
give up the ghost shout for now. Oh sorry, just
trying out.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Hello everybody, thank you so much for coming out tonight.
We're just getting a set up here, so just a
moment and then we'll be doing some introductions.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I think that works.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Hi, awesome, Does you guys work?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Does yours work?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Hello?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Well? That's the important one.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That's the money shot right there.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Thank you imputably can figure out.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
There you go?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Okay, okay, Hi, how is everybody tonight? Thanks for coming out? Awesome?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Well yeah, like I said, thank you guys so much
for coming out. I'm As from Winnipeg Paranormal Group, and
I've got my partner Kelly over here.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
On the edge, and I'm Jazz from Giving Up the
Ghost Podcast.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
And we've got one of our best friends, amazing author and.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Writer. Writer. Yeah, yes, writer.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So you've got Chris Raherowski here tonight.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
So thank you so much for coming up. Woo Louder, louder, louder.
All right, louder, Okay, how's this?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Is this a little better?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
All right? You know you guys speak up, louder, come
on now, that's good okay. So Chris is known to
be a world renowned Canadian known Actually I saw you
on TV the other day.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I was leaving back at you. Did you see me?
I saw you?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I felt the love you were commentating on Close Encounters
on ten from twenty fifteen.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Oh yeah, way back, way back way, oh man.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So he is Manitoba's known uphologist. He has tons of
UFO investigation stories and also paranormal stories, so we want
to kind of throw that part into it as well.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
So Chris was a paranormal investigator before Ghostbusters.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I was. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
In fact, we had something called Manitoba Mysteries Group, which
in the nineteen eighties, so you know, way back when
we were still using rocks and stuff to you know things,
and we.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Had it in here in Winnipeg. Was based here and.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
We investigated ghosts and sas watch and lake monsters and UFOs,
we had we did everything because we were the only
ones around and suddenly this Ghostbusters things shows up and
and TV shows and whatnot, so we actually were ahead
of the curve.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, do you want to start us off with some
interesting stories.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Or anything that's come up new interesting story as opposed
to the other ones that I usually have. First of all,
I have to I have to show off. How's the shirt?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Nice?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Very very spiffy, very nice.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
My wife has introduced me to the Wonders of of
T moves very good. So yeah, I've been at this
for a while and I have a lot of stories
on UFOs and ghosts.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
So we started out with the ghost we investigated, uh
here in Winnipeg, there are a couple of places you
may know. The Hamilton House you probably have heard of
and people have been involved with. It's closed now, but
at one time you could go there and eat and drink.
But there's also places around town like Mother Tuckers and
(09:18):
you know that used to be the what was it
now the Masonic Temple. And in the Masonic Temple we
had found coffins and there's all sorts of interesting stories
of ghosts that we're seen in there by some of
the patrons. So lots of places around town, the Saint Andrew's,
Lower Fort Garry h you know, these places have these traditions.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So we did a lot of investigating.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
But at one point it was just too much going
after the Sasquatch and lake monsters and ghosts and UFOs.
It was just too much, so we I started to
specialize in the UFO stuff. Although I am still a
consultant for the Winnipeg Paranormal so I'm still active and
we still do a few things. I just got back
(10:05):
from thunder Bay Or I spent some time with the
Six Nations Investigators of Paranormal Experiences. I spent some time
with the Beyond the Beyond, the what's the women in
in BC. There's Anyways, there's a lot of a lot
(10:27):
of the people on TV shows right now are beyond
the beyond the hunting, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Anyways?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
So a lot of the people you see on TV
that are ghost hunting and stuff I spend time with,
and I've actually spent some time in Thunder Bay on
some investigations. But the UFO stuff is always attracted to me.
But is there a like, what's the difference between the
UFOs and the ghost stuff? And sometimes it's a little
(10:54):
hard to tell. For example, March nineteen seventy seven, so
this goes way way back. I think Brian Barkley was
about this high. Oh wait, he still is just a second, but.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
He You know. There it goes way way back.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
And a fellow named Ludwig Siegel was driving on a
road here in Manitoba close to the American border, heading
for a town called Sundown. Now this is close to,
as I mentioned, the close to American border. But he's
driving along and as he's driving along, this was about
(11:35):
six o'clock in the morning and it's still fairly dark
out in March from nineteen seventy seven, he's driving along
and he sees this sort of ufoe thing. It's a
disc shaped object that resolves into a saucer. It's over
the road, but it's all kind of sparkly and sort
of looks like you can almost see through it, but
it's definitely just hanging over the road. And he drives
(11:59):
right under it, and he thought, well, this is really
really weird, but he keeps on driving. And as he's driving,
he goes over hill and he starts picking up speed
and he's coming down and he sees in front of
him three creatures that he describes as white bowling pins
(12:22):
sort of heads and then they have a bigger body
between the neck and the head, and they're standing across
the road in front of him. They're all white, no faces,
no arms, no legs, just these three bowling pin things
right in front of him. And he realizes he can't
(12:42):
stop and tell in time to keep from hitting him,
so he just kept on going and didn't even take
his foot off the accelerator. He was in such shock.
And he gets closer and closer, and he drives right
over them. In his rear view mirror hadn't felt a bump,
(13:02):
and in his rear view mirror. He could see them smaller,
kind of deflating, like they were some sort of balloony things.
Now where those ghosts were those aliens, I don't know,
but they see it sort of crosses between the two.
But what's interesting is what happened next because he stopped
(13:27):
the car and he looked for broken glass on his
windshields or his headlights, looked around, couldn't see any sign
of these creatures. So he did the most rational thing
that you could possibly do. He went and drove to
the RCMP office and told them just picture this. He
(13:48):
comes in, it's like six fifteen in the morning, comes
in the door and they say, can I help you, sir,
and he says, yes, I just killed three people. So
the RCMP immediately drove with them back to the site
and they took all measurements and there was no sign
of anything. But that was a case where somebody had
(14:11):
an interaction with ghosts or aliens and they reported it
to the police, and the police just sort of huh,
can you just imagine trying to write that one up.
So that shows you that that there's this this fine
line that's very wavy and diffuse between the paranormal and
(14:34):
the UFO.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yes, what is your belief on people being able to
call UFOs? Because I keep hearing it if you hear
a lot.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yeah, Online you can see all sorts of videos of
people that say that if you there's something called whistleedowns
and you can call the UFOs and aliens if you
have this right frequency and all this sort of stuff,
or you can telepathically contact them and they'll come down
to you. I've never I've been with people who said
(15:12):
they could do that, and they've never been able to
do that. Or they say, see look at that. There
it is and like a satellite flies overhead or a
plane or something. So I don't really buy into it.
And then the other thing is they can't do it
necessarily on command all the time. So I'm standing here,
(15:33):
can you.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
You know, call down a UFO? Well, you know, you
have to be.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
In the right frame of mine. You know, the precipitation
has to be just right, and you know, just you
know that sort of things that I don't buy that.
That's fair, ye okay, okay, So do you want you
want another story? Oh you want another story about how
about stand houb about who stand stand Hollow? Okay, okay,
(16:01):
So who here has been out to Falcon Lake. A
few of you, so you probably know the story I'm
going to talk about, right, the guy who is burned
by the flying saucer at Falcon Lake. This goes back
even further if you can imagine nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
And it was the May Long weekend in nineteen sixty seven,
and there was a fellow named Stefan me Hollick, and
he was a bit of a rock hound. He had
moved to Canada from Eastern Europe and he, you know,
thought was kind of interested in rocks and things like that.
(16:46):
So he had taken the bus a number of times
from his home in River Heights. That's fine, I can
see the microphone. It's okay, And it's it's that he
took the bus and he would stay overnight on the
Friday night and do some sort of poking around, prospecting
(17:08):
or whatever on the Saturday, and then take the bus
back on Sunday. He had his favorite spot too, and
where this spot was was just north of the town
of Falcon Lake, on the north side of the Trans
Canada Highway.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
And he had actually found some interesting rocks. He had
staked some claims.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Most of you probably don't know that there are gold
mines not that far away from Falcon Lake. The Besett
gold Mine has been open and shot a couple of times.
But there's some veins of copper and possibly gold close
to Falcon Lake, but we're not entirely sure. But he
(17:47):
had staked some claims and had registered that he was
looking for that sort of stuff. So the May Long
weekend nineteen sixty seven, he'd got out there by bus
on Friday night, six o'clock in the morning. He packs
his gear, has a backpack and has a briefcase with
his stuff in it because he's also a bit.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Of an artist.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
And he wandered into the bush and he spent some
time looking around at things, and around lunchtime he stopped
beside this rock out cropping. And if you know the
Falcon Lake area West Hawk, there's these big ridges with big,
you know, tall cliffs and stuff like that, you know,
with not mountainous by any means.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
But they're fairly high ridges.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
And he'd stopped for lunch overlooking this this sort of
pond swampy area where there was a beaver dam and
there's a bunch of geese sort of paddling along on
this swampy area, and as he's having his lunch, he
had pulled out and unwrapped his lunch that he had
made for himself. All of a sudden, the geese fly
(18:50):
off there, make a big racket and they fly off.
And he's thinking, oh, there must be a bear somewhere around, and.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
You know, because there bears out.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
There, and he was looking and he was worried that
there might be some. He had his bear bell and
things like that, but he didn't see any bears, didn't
see any reason for the geese to have taken off
all of a sudden. But up in the sky there
were two bright objects. He said, they were kind of
like cigar shaped, very very bright, shiny, like shining in
the sun. This was noon on a Saturday afternoon, which
(19:24):
was already kind of bright, but these things were really
bright and shining. And as he watched, they came down
a little bit further and further, and one of them
hung up in the sky, but the other one started
descending more and more and more, and he eventually saw
this was not a cigar shape. This was actually a
Hollywood style flying saucer that eventually came down and landed
(19:48):
on a flat rock up outcropping about one hundred meters
oh no, listen to that, maybe fifty one hundred meters away,
And it was a saucer shape with a dome on top.
And he didn't see it he legs or anything like that.
No portholes that he could see. But this thing is
(20:09):
just sitting there, and as he's watching it, it's not
white anymore. It's yellow, and then orange and then red
like it's cooling down and eventually cools down to the
part point where it's just silver. Like he said, it
was some sort of metallic gray or silver, and the
sunlight was gleaming off it a little bit, but it
(20:31):
was sort of burnished somehow. But as he's watching this,
there are lights coming out of the top of the
dome which were very very bright, and a little door
opened in the side of this thing, not like a door,
but like an iris of a camera, just sort of
sliding one into the other.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And he heard some voices.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
And over the next half hour he's watching this and
he's sketching it, and he's listening to the voices, and
he can't make out what the voices they're saying. He says,
it's high some sort of gibberish or.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Something like that, and he thought, well, what is this.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
He thought, well, this must be some Americans secret landing
something or other, because in nineteen sixty seven, here's your history.
You're learning something tonight. This was the year that the
Apollo program really got.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Going, nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
As a matter of fact, Apollo won, which was actually
never called Apollo one. It actually had an accident on
the land on the launch pad and three astronauts were killed.
It was all over the news in nineteen sixty seven,
and this was just a number of months after that,
so he knew that the American space program was underway.
(21:49):
Maybe this was a test vehicle that had broken down
and they had to land somewhere for repair. So he's
listening to these voices and he think, oh, yeah, because
of the these voices, it must be Americans. So I figured, Okay,
they broke down there, they figured nobody was around to
see them. But I'm here, so I'm a mechanic. He
(22:10):
was a mechanic. He stood up, walked towards the flying saucer.
I don't know how many of you would be walking
towards flying saucers. But he walked towards the flying saucer.
You would, you would, jazz boy, oh boy, not again anyways,
(22:31):
and he calls out, okay, Yankee boys, come on out.
I'll give you a hand fixing your broken down flying machine.
And the voices stopped. And he thought, not Americans, Russian now,
because this was the Cold War, and he happened to
(22:52):
be from Eastern Europe and knew a couple of different languages,
so he called out in Russian, nose Vennia or whatever,
and you know, and no voices didn't start again. He
tried again in German, he tried again in Polish. Nothing happened.
But he was by this time standing right in front
of this thing, and he reached out to touch it,
(23:16):
and his rubber eyed glove he had rubberized gloves on
to protect his hands from the rock chips and whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
The rubberized glove melted when it touched the side of
this thing.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
This thing was still pretty hot, and he pulled away,
and all of a sudden, this door shut, the whole
thing started rotating, and in front of them was an
exhaust vent of some sort of grid with holes and
lines and a blast of hot gas hit him in
the chest, set fire to the pine needles, set fire
(23:47):
to his clothes, and the thing took off and flew away. Well,
he ripped off his clothes that were on fire, took
off his shirt, his undershirt, and he stomped out the
pine needles as best he could in the leaves. And
he started getting very very ill. He was dizzy, he
(24:10):
was burned, he was injured. He eventually made it back.
He said, I have to get some medical attention. He
eventually made it back to Falcon Lake, got on the
bus and got back to Winnipeg, went to the miser
Accordia Hospital to the emergency department where they treated him
for her first and second degree burns. And then the
(24:31):
story came out because they said, how did you burn
yourself in the middle of the forest in Falcon Lake,
And he said, well, some sort of airplane. Well, the
RCMP and National Defense took an interest in this, and
investigators from the RCMP and the Canadian Force of the
Air Force at that time investigated.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
They showed up at his home.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
They went and talked to his family, They talked to
his people at work, trying to figure out what had happened.
Matter of fact, we have found about five hundred pages
of classified government documents detailing the investigation of the RCMP
and National Defense into.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
This particular case.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
So if you ever hear that the government isn't interested,
there's no information, there's no files.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
We have five hundred pages, so we know it.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Was investigated, and we have the conclusions of the RCMP
and National Defense which both said they have no explanation
for what was found.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Now, he was very sick.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
And he was taken to Pinowaw at the White Shell
Nuclear Research Center tested for radiation. You always your UFO's
land and there's radiation all over the place. Well, he
wasn't radioactive, but when the site was found, radiation was
found at the site in just north of the Falcon Lake.
As a matter of fact, it was so radioactive that
(25:52):
the government of Manitoba thought about closing all of Falcon
Lake in the White Shell Provincial Park for the summer.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Can you imagine closing white Shell for this?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
No?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
No, no, they decided against it.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
But they was so as far as to dig up
or see if they anybody had dug up from the
nuclear waste site. You may not know that Manitoba has
a nuclear waist site, but they went there and they
wanted to see if somebody had tampered with it and
taken some radiation out, some radioactive material. A year after
(26:26):
this had happened, he went back.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
His burns had healed, he was feeling better.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
He went back and he found just in a crack
in the rock over which this saucer had landed, pieces
of metal, and the metal was radioactive to the point
we actually have some of these pieces still today. There's
still radioactive. And my wife Donna convinced me to not
(26:54):
leave it on the dining room table anymore. She says,
put that in your office. Leave it next year computer. Yeah, buzzkill.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
It was a nice conversation piece. Incidentally, talking about TV
and stuff, I just finished a thirteen week episode of
filming of a new TV show called UFO Point of View,
which is going to be aired on I think either
History or Discovery or one of those things in March
(27:27):
of March of this year. And the Falcon like case
is the is the last episode that leave you hanging.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
So it's a case that.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Happened here in Manitoba. Still has not been explained by
the government. And there's physical evidence, there's radiation, and it's
one of those classic cases.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I think it's better than that silly.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Old Roswell thing because the American government doesn't even admit
anything happened there, but the Canadian government, Oh yeah. You
can still go out by the way to Falcon Lake
and go to the Falcon Beach Ranch and by horseback
you can visit.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
The UFO site.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Is it Is it fenced off there, like do they have?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's not fenced off.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
It's on the property of the of the ranch itself
and they take people out on tours and it's, believe
it or not, it's a forty five minute horseback ride
each way. I mean it's it's it's the only way
in because it's in the middle of nowhere, and so
(28:31):
it's you know, if you're going to fake something, why
do it in a place that's so inaccessible, you know,
put it somewhere I don't know, next to the PanAm
pool or something, you know that everybody can drive by.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
And is some of that still at the university as well?
Speaker 4 (28:47):
As a matter of fact, Kelly, thank you for asking
that all of my files on this case have been
given to the University of Manitoba Archives and occasionally they
pull them out, but there is his hat is still
he was wearing a little hat somewhat like this that's burned.
His undershirt from nineteen sixty seven showing the burn marks,
(29:10):
a little bit torn up, a little bit yellow.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I have a shirt just like it, but.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
It's in the University archive. They have more than just books,
and they have all these artifacts and files and whatnot,
and they're there for the public to do research on.
Along with the University of Manitava Archives also has things
like the Hamilton photographs of the ectoplasm and the covering
shares and everything from paranormal.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Investigations as well.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Matter of fact, University of Manitoba has one of the
largest paranormal collections in all around the world.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I think at the last.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Count, they had seventy five separate collections of paranormal artifacts,
including the UFO stuff in their archives, including the files
of Peter Ackroid, who is Dan Ackroyd's father. Speaking of ghostbusters,
he who was an actual ghostbuster and investigator, and.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
All his files are there, so you know, there's a
very rich history of all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Collection.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
It's a wicked collection. It's a spooky collection.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Spooky Actually it's at the Elizabeth Dafauex Library Library.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, very cool.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Any other questions I have one? Okay, what are your
thoughts on the Skinwalker range?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Now, some of you are who watches the TV show
about Skinwalker, bunch of you and you guys. Yeah, so
there's good news and bad news. First of all, Skinwalker
is a little odd of a place. But there's a
guy here in Winnipeg named Mike Manyas who has actually
been to Skinwalker Rash and he was toured there. He
(30:55):
stayed there and he said nothing happened, he said every
but he was saying do you see that shadow?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Do you see that? What was that?
Speaker 4 (31:04):
But they are encouraging people, you know, suggesting that something
was happening, But he nothing happened while he was there.
Now does that mean that nothing's happening. No, But he
just came back with not the best view of that.
It's the type of thing where, you know, on a
lot of the TV shows that are on now, you know,
like if search for Bigfoot or whatever, they tromp around
(31:26):
on the bush and they say, well this tree is
bent this way maybe and there's something we heard and
there could be a footprint, but no really solid evidence.
That's kind of the same thing with Skinwalker Edge. A
lot of hype but not really anything of substance. That's
that's my view of all that, right, that's fair. Anybody else,
(31:49):
does anybody have a question regarding the UFOs?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
And the other thing is I've been at this a while.
I mean I have been.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Investigating UFOs and paranormal phenomena for.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Fifty years. I am that old. I am very very old.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
I was investigating the haunted houses here in Winnipeg since
nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
That's why I asked you when I first started.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, you were you wear this high? I think she
still is that high?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
What question over there?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Where's it? But yes, you mentioned that they bun of
metals from the Balkan light.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Do you know, like the everitted like something like Gary Holland.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
For like a past.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
It's interesting that there's a lot of claims about materials
found that are related to UFOs and meta materials and
all this thing.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
I have published.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
The fact that I have this material and the metal
and it has been tested not by Gary, but it's
been tested by accredited universities. University of Chicago. It's been
tested at the u of M, of course, and University
of Arizona. A lot of scientists have analyzed it. As
a matter of fact, it was most recently analyzed at
(33:15):
the at the u of M at the new what's
it called Materials Manitoba Institute of Materials, which is a.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
New space age lab at the u of M.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Two stories underground, and it looks like a James Bond
villain's lair. It's really cool, lots of neon and stuff.
They have an electron microscope there and we put this
metal on there and it turns out that this metal
is almost.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Pure silver and radioactive.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
It's not radioactive silver, it's regular silver that has been
somehow made radioactive with some other material that's on it.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And there's some of these.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
The piece, one of the pieces I have, is this
big like it's a good four or five inches long,
pure silver, and.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I back in nineteen sixty seven they.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Weren't making brackets or anything out of silver. It also
looks like it's been melted, like it was melted somehow
into this rock. And all these experts supposedly they have
all these pieces. None of the pieces are anywhere near
as big as the pieces we have. Gary Nolan and
all those other people knew about this and have never
(34:35):
been interested in talking about it, never been interested in
testing it, never mentioned it in any of their expertise
and lectures about materials found through UFO.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Cases, and we haven't.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
So who's the experts around here?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Anyone else? Yeah? Abductions? Okay, As a matter of fact, I.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Was in thunder Bay specifically speaking about UFO abductions. You
don't hear much about them these days, but there's still
a popular topic in some circles at one time. And
I'm trying to remember what year it was. I think
it was early nineties when they I'm gonna stand up.
I think it was, Oh yeah, I need this.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I think it was.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
I think it was early nineties when the abduction thing
was really, really popular, and I had had people come
up to me after my talks and lectures saying, you know,
I didn't want to say anything in front of everybody,
but you know, I think I was abducted. I have
this missing time and other sort of stuff. And so
(35:52):
I did work with a number of people who said
they were abducted by aliens.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I worked with a clinical.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Psychologist, not because I thought they were crazy, but because
some of these people had extreme anxiety. One was worried
that the aliens were watching him and he was afraid
to get out of his apartment and all that sort
of stuff. At least a few of the people attempted
suicide because the aliens were watching them too much, and
(36:20):
so I turned that over to psychologists. But it's a
matter of overcoming some of the anxieties and fears that
people have. But I did actually facilitate a support group
for people who had experienced or believe they had experienced abductions,
and that ran for a little while, but I've withdrawn
(36:40):
from that. At the same time that we don't hear
much more about it because I think there's and I
recommended people go to their family doctor, go to a psychologist,
not because you're crazy, but because you have these fears.
These are things that are really bothering you, that that
are very meaningful to yourself, and they play into some
(37:01):
other feelings that you have, and they're affecting your family,
they're affecting your life. So for gosh sakes, go see
a therapist about it for whatever, yes, have The question
is have I encountered multiple people I seen to re call.
(37:22):
There were a few couples in the support group, no
more than that. But some of the witnesses or some
of the abductees had some really profound.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Experiences.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
One woman was a nurse who came to me after
I was interviewed on TV or something and.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
So they knew to contact me.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
And this nurse had said that she was living in
a townhouse in the south end of the city and
she was working really hard. She was, you know, just
I can't imagine how nurses are working these days, with
twenty hours and thirty hours and all that sort of thing.
But she was working double shifts, didn't have time to
watch TV, had never seen Star Trek or Star Wars,
(38:13):
or you know, didn't watch a lot of TV because
she was working so much. She would come home, you know,
have somebody they eat, get a few hours of sleep,
and then go back. She came home one night, like
two or three in the morning, and she came home
and walked down her hallway towards her living room and
then in the bedroom in the back. And she got
into the bedroom and she was getting ready to get
(38:35):
ready for sleep, and there was a big bang, boom
thump in the living room, and she thought, oh, no,
you know, somebody's broken in. It was around Halloween, so
maybe somebody is, you know, playing a trick on her
or something. So she ran out of the bedroom or so, yeah,
ran out of the bedroom into the hallway, into the
living room, and there were two kind of like the
(38:57):
bowling pin creatures, not the aliens that you see usually,
but they had round heads, two round eyes each, and
then they had a sort of a long white skirt.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Now, where's the yes, very much like what you're wearing.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Very much like, in fact, very very much Okay. Anyways,
so they were looking at her, and she immediately, because
it was instinct, get out of my home.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
What are you doing here?
Speaker 4 (39:30):
And they looked at her, and then they looked at
each other, and then they looked back at her, and
she thought, these aren't kids. These aren't you know, teenagers
or whatever. And she heard telepathically in her mind, would
you like to come for a ride with us?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
We mean you no harm.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Now, of course, I'm sure all of you have had
situations where somebody said, hey, you want to go for
a ride, and you've all said yes.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
So she said su.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
And the next thing she knows, she's somewhere else. She's
in a big hall or auditorium in which there are
a number of UFO flying saucers, and one of the
creatures is behind her and the other one is in
front of her, and they're walking across the tarmac or
whatever towards one of these saucers, and there's a ramp
(40:24):
going in a gangway, and she goes down the hall
inside this thing, and they sit down at this console
and there's a big screen and a bunch of buttons
on the dashboard. One sits on either side of her,
and she's sitting down and she's watching, and there's this
image of the Earth which goes smaller and smaller and
smaller and smaller and smaller. And the next thing she knows,
(40:50):
she's in her bedroom. Three hours later, she's still in
her clothes, the bed has not been slept in, and
she is no other memory of anything that happened. So
I said to her, I said, well, you know, did
you drink anything or you know, No, no, no, I
(41:10):
don't drink. I don't do drugs anything like that. As
a matter of fact, I didn't even have an anchovy
pizza anything that usually upsets my stomach.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I don't dream vividly. I don't have that kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
I said, well, would you like me to interview or
you know other people in the area. You know, we
can put you on TV or on cjob or in
the Winnipeg Sun and you know, find somebody else that
might have seen. She said, no, No, I'm just telling
you because you're the one who was interested in this,
So I'm telling you the story and that's where the
story ends.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
So what do you do with cases like that? And
I've had people.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Who, you know, I've had an Air Force officer come
into my office at the University of Manitoba and tell
me he can't tell his commanding officer what happened, but
he thinks he was abducted by aliens.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
What do you do with these cases?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Do you document them? Though?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Well, I've documented.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
In fact, I wrote a book about specifically abductions called
Abductions and Aliens, available through Dunder and Press on Amazon,
look at Chris Rakowski and fine bookstores everywhere. So yeah,
there's again. Was that a paranormal experience? Was it a
spiritual Did she travel you know, mentally or spiritually? Or
(42:31):
did it really happen, and what does really happen mean anyways, So.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
You're saying that people.
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Don't talk about it anymore, but there are still people
like the groups made up. Do you think it's just
because they're self conscious because it's.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Not well, abductions isn't as popular anymore necessarily, there are
groups that still continue. You're right, but people have moved
on to you know, egg shaped things and government cover
up and planetary comets and asteroids flying through the Solar System,
(43:11):
that type of thing. You don't hear about the abductions necessarily,
but there's still cases going on. As far as UFO reports,
we still get somewhere around one thousand separate UFO reports
in Canada filed every year. As a matter of fact,
I'm just in the process of working on the twenty
twenty five data and you know it's the report will
(43:33):
be out early next year. But you know, and over
we've been doing this since nineteen eighty nine, and since
nineteen eighty nine, we have something like twenty five thousand
separate UFO reports in Canada that have been filed about.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Three a day.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
And where does Manitoba, Manitoba rank.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
It's related to populations.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
So more cases are in Toronto, you know, Ontario, BC, Manitoba.
It's maybe thirty cases a year something like that.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
That's not too bad.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
And we also know from our statistics, from looking at
the data, that ten of all Canadians believe they've seen UFOs.
So in a group like this, hands up, a handful
of you are not fissing up.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Who thinks they've seen a UFO? Hands up?
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Okay, okay, there you go, gett representative. Yep, red light
at gull Lake. Usually it's red light at Carmen. But
but I know, I know that, you know gull Lake
has had some Remember something at s Dead You remember
(44:43):
something at Stead? Really I heard of Really, I've heard
about cases from Stead and what's the other town out
that way? Yeah, but I know the area, Yeah, I
haven't by it.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
I I don't. I know that there have been cases.
I can't think of any off.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Hands okay, cause I wanna tell you how I was
was back in nineteen seventy five. Okay, uh huh.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
A friend of mine and I went on this little
manybody and we went on this trail in the in
the in the bush, yes whatever. It was like justaf
and midnight, we saw a red light in the trees.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Mm. And I mean there's no little there was no towels,
backsand or anything.
Speaker 5 (45:27):
Hm.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
So when we got back to my cousin's place, I
totally saw this red light and he said, well, don't
you know about the red light?
Speaker 4 (45:36):
It go it?
Speaker 2 (45:36):
And I said, no, I've never heard about it. And
my daughter, she would be with me.
Speaker 5 (45:41):
My same cousin, Cole told her a story about his
aunt who has a cabin kind of want to look
in front if we're kind of.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Pretty for her four each other.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
She said that she saw you a hole over my cabin.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
Oooh that would have been back in the seventies, in
the seventie okay with her, and.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
She's not like she's a very.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
Mean, very street lace.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Kind of out you know, right.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
But I just ask you, yeah, well, yeah, there's there's reports,
you know, a little bit north of there in east
like Buconia, Yeah, and up the Grand Beach and that
type of thing.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Yeah. Yeah, cool. Interesting, Well thank you for that, Yeah, thank.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
You, thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
Got a couple questions.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Okay, what do you think about the.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
Blowing up of the fire in the sky story for abductions,
the blowing up of the Fire in the Sky. Oh though,
the debunking of the Fire in the Sky. Well, there's
a lot of controversy. Fire in the Sky if you
don't know, Travis Walton was nineteen seventy seven something like that.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
It's it's been on TV.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
They're actually a film about it called Fire in the
Sky where some loggers were driving along and this saucer
appeared and one got out and ran towards it. He
was zapped by a by a beam and they got
scared and drove away.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And left him behind. Great friends and saying that his
brother in law said they faith didn't explain how to
end up.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
Yeah, And and for a number of years, everybody like
they took light detector tests and he was eventually found,
but some of them insisted that it was real. Now
and it turns out they were behind in the logging
contract and they were going to There's all sorts of
people who have come out with reasons why.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
They faked it.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
Some people said it was faked, some of them. One
of the loggers definitely said it, but they're not talking
to him. And you know, there's a whole that sort
of stuff. One of the best it's called one of
the best cases ever. But there are some explanations. And
I met him, this guy named Travis Walton. The number
of times we've had dinner with him, and I know
(48:00):
my wife. We were having dinner with him and Stan
Friedman a few others and after dinner, my wife turned
to me and said, he acts and looks and sounds
exactly like a used car salesman.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
So I don't know whether that's positive.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
But I mean, you know, there's people who believe and
don't believe, and I don't know whether you're here to
believe or not believe.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
I don't care. I can tell you the stories, whether
you want to believe them or not.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
I can back up almost everything I say with documents
and additional stories.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
And Kelly has seen some of these documents. And you know,
what do you do with these cases? I don't know.
But a lot of the stories you hear about do
have explanations.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
And I would say, out of all the cases, maybe
five percent don't have really good, easy explanations. The rest
are could be literally anything, And I apply that to
everything in life sometimes.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah, okay, so here's a question for you.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Alright, So just because you've document, and you hear all
these things doesn't necessarily mean you believe. Do you believe
that there's something else out there?
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I believe. I'll have another drink. I believe. I believe.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
But my backgrounds in astronomy, by the way, and in education.
I have degrees in astronomy and education. I try to
tell people how wonderful the universe is. Unfortunately we're stuck
down here, but out there it's really neat. But my
astronomy background tells me that there's life out there, somewhere,
(49:47):
somewhere around a distant star, maybe not that distant, but
somewhere out there, there's a star with a planet around
it that might have, you know, life like us. And
it could be that there's you know, flying saucers out here.
And those stars might be, you know, a thousand years
(50:09):
older than our son, ten thousand, a million years older
than our son, so the civilization might be that much
older too. If so, they could have figured out a
way not to break the laws of physics, but to
bend them in ways that we don't know yet. And
if so, they could be coming here. So I think
it's possible, But I'm the ultimate doubting Thomas I need
(50:31):
to see something. Sure, you know, I know Ashley's here,
but until I actually you know, so, I don't know.
It's it's a belief is a very interesting thing.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
So I was just going to say that leading up
to that sort of three I.
Speaker 4 (50:48):
Atlas Okay, Atlas.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, yeah, So people are all excited about Atlas. This this, Uh,
what's your take on it.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
I'm actually I'm actually in an organization led by the
guy who's hyping at Lias right now. His name is
Avi Lob at Harvard University, and I meet with scientists
from Harvard University every month talking about stuff including this.
This fellow is convinced that No, he's not convinced. He
(51:18):
says it's possible, and people miss the possible part. He says,
it's possible that this object that's flying through our solar
system at a funny angle, at a funny speed, and
in a funny direction, in a funny shape, and seems
to be very strange in terms of its reflective properties
may not be an asteroid or a comet, may actually
(51:40):
be a spaceship from another star, from another civilization, And
people have just taken that and run with it. At
this point, we have no evidence that it actually is.
It's just could be a really weird asteroid or something
like that, and you can't see it from Winnipeg. There
is a commet you can see, as a matter of fact,
it's clear tonight, isn't it. You should be able to see.
(52:02):
It's called Comet Lemon and it's it's very visible, but
not this one. And you're not gonna be able to
see this comet Atlas for before it disappears.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Sorry I interrupted, Sorry ahead.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
I have never seen anything that I couldn't explain. I've
been out on UFO hunts, I've been on sasquatch hunts,
and I've been you know, on paranormal investigations, and you know,
there's some funny lights and bumps and noises, and as
far as the UFOs go, I've seen some lights that
(52:41):
could have been stars and planes and planets and all
that sort of stuff, but nothing that I really.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
Couldn't explain it.
Speaker 4 (52:47):
Nothing sort of jumped out at me and said, this
is amazing, this is unusual. But you know, it's it's
very possible. This group that I'm with is by the
aav LO. One of the other things that he's doing.
He's not getting as much attention on is that he's
(53:10):
built or had some people built for him UFO observing stations,
three of them in the United States and so far,
and they're training AI to use all the cameras and
everything on board to look for UFOs. And so far
they've examined more than one hundred thousand objects that have
(53:32):
been detected and not one of them is unexplained. And
here's something you probably have not heard. They just installed
the latest of these observatories looking for UFOs. And you'll
never guess where it's been installed. Have you heard about this?
(53:52):
Who's been to Las Vegas, who's been to the sphere?
They put the UFO observing station on the top of
the sphere?
Speaker 2 (54:06):
They built it.
Speaker 4 (54:07):
Yeah, yeah, wow, yeah, yeah, and it just started operating
this week.
Speaker 5 (54:13):
Interesting.
Speaker 4 (54:13):
Yeah, it's it's your scoop.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Any other questions, any other Yes, So you were saying.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
That there's uh Canadian government's uh stuff on the Falcon Lake.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Did he also went to the American Uh? He went
to Minnesota because the things were the occurring.
Speaker 4 (54:37):
Were you able to get.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
You must have read my book? Oh you did, just
kept it kept coming and.
Speaker 3 (54:50):
You could go to the Americans were very interested.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Is that in our records or is that classified in
their records? Where they thought was we have all of that.
Speaker 4 (54:59):
What what happened was he while he was recovering and
his his burns were never healing properly. He actually went
to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester in Minnesota on his
own dying because it wasn't covered under Medicare at that time,
and they went for a full battery, full physical examination,
(55:22):
a psychiatric examination. And we have the medical records from
the Mayo Clinic, you know, and the the Mayo Clinic psychiatrist.
I'll give you one example. He said, this guy is
down to earth and is not the type of person
to make stories up. Well, it recurred for a while, Yeah,
(55:47):
they were. They thought it was some sort of allergic
reaction to whatever gas it was that he was exposed to.
They eventually did stop, but they had no idea, no, no, yeah,
one more question on any any topic, anything and everything,
anything and everything. Why are you here, oh this guy here?
(56:13):
Have you ever looked started at any research into like
the Jack can Manitoba I did. I did back in
two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
It wasn't all that long ago.
Speaker 4 (56:29):
Fifteen was it fifteen, there was a story that a
UFO had crashed onto the frozen Lake Winnipeg and that
the government had covered up and told all the residents
of the jack d First Nation to shut up and
never say anything. And so I thought, okay, And there
(56:51):
was also a photograph that was posted on a lot
of websites. So I contacted the First Nation's band office.
They laugh, they left, They said, no, it's all ridiculous
because it was a thing called Operation North Bison or
something like that. And the Canadian Forces do a cold
(57:13):
weather training on Lake Winnipeg almost every year, fully document
in fact, the website has like one hundred photographs. And
they go from one end of Lake Winnipeg to the
other on snowmobile and the snowmobiles broke down because it
was so cold, so they actually had to fly in
and land on the lake and then take off again
(57:34):
rescuing the Canadian Forces personnel because the snowmobiles were frozen.
That's what happened, And somebody made up this amazing story
about UFO's landing and the government covering it up, and
just by talking with the Band office, they just said, no,
it's just the silliest thing you've ever heard of, And
they said, can you just imagine the government telling us
(57:55):
to shut up? No, anybody, I mean the government would
I'll can you actually government tell you.
Speaker 2 (58:02):
To shut up?
Speaker 5 (58:03):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (58:03):
God, no, I'd be the first one speaking up there
you go, yep, anyone else?
Speaker 2 (58:13):
Okay, okay, we'll.
Speaker 3 (58:16):
Take a little break you guys ten minutes or so,
refill your drinks, get some liquid courage, and then we're
gonna open up the floor to open mic stories. So,
as usual, we encourage all paramormal stories. Aliens obviously are
day tonight, but aliens goes sasquatch whatever. We want to
hear your stories. We do have a board up here
(58:36):
that you guys can sign up on just so we
don't miss you if you have a story. We also
have an amazing vendor here tonight, so please make sure
to stop by and see after Dark Design. They've got
some great stuff out on their tables tonight. So yes,
we also have prizes tonight as usual, so please come
(58:58):
on over, fill out a bull and uhurries.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
And thank you to the gang here for inviting me
to speak. It's nice talking with you, thank you, thank you,
thank you very much, Chris
Speaker 1 (59:11):
So much to make us Christ welcome than sure
Anyway, you might get the idea if years old as
I am, and you know you're so busy you're spinning
plates on sticks and they're crashing to the ground. Anyway, Hey,
it's jazz and this is giving Up the Ghost podcast.
So that's sort of like my explanation, excuse reason, whatever
(01:04):
you want to call it for delayed episodes got kind
of lazy there after the hubbub of October. It was
a busy, wonderful month. Thank you so much to the
lovely ladies at the Winnipeg Paranormal Group, Ashley and Kelly
for always including myself and share and giving up the
ghost and all their public investigations. Couldn't be happier. I mean,
(01:24):
these girls do a wonderful job, and truly, from the
bottom of our dead, blackened hearts, thank you so much. Yeah,
so it's been a busy, crazy, hectic October. We're now
into that wasn't that was the foum stepping on In
case you heard something, We're there anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
So tonight's episode is from Spirits with Spirits our Halloween
episode October twenty ninth, with none other than world infamous
ufologist Chris Rotowski. Great talking to him. He's such a
funny guy, like he's so smart, so much information. He's
done so many investigations with respects to Alien's UFOs, you know,
(02:03):
even the paranormal because that's truly where he got his
roots and he's still part of the Winnipeg paranormal group.
So thank you, Chris, Thanks for coming out. We truly
loved having you. Anytime if you want to come out,
you come on down and share your stories or just
all around with the crowd. We'd love to have you.
Thank you again.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So that's tonight's episode, our interview with Chris at the
King'shead Pub Halloween Night. This is part one. Part two
should be coming out in the next few days. Speaking
of segus and spirits with spirits coming up. Our last
Spirits with Spirits for the year for twenty twenty five
(02:40):
is coming up next Wednesday, November twenty sixth I believe
does that sound right? Check out our socials for the information.
We had a couple of guests lined up. Unfortunately things
kind of fizzled, so in saying that we were going
to talk, well, we still have one guest potentially in
the works, but we will be talking all things Christmas
(03:02):
creepy crampus, right, like that's a thing. Come on out,
come share your paranormal stories. We'd love to hear ghost stories.
You know, that's what it's all about. No judgment. We're
here for you again. It's been a great year. It's
been a busy year. I may be taking a hiatus
in January. I'm thinking about further developing Macob Manitoba, the
(03:22):
other podcast I had for a limited ren last year,
just because Manitoba there's been a lot of shit going
on for the last one hundred and seventy five years.
I think, you know, crimes and murders and all that skullduggery.
So I might be doing that. And I've changed course
with a book that I had written. I was pursuing
(03:45):
getting agents to take a look at it, and I'm
a little deflated about that, quite honestly. So I am
going to go with the self published route after talking
with some people at different various markets, and you know what,
maybe it'll be a little bit more work, but I think,
you know, it'll be a little better. So coming up
(04:06):
there will be more information if you like vampire stories,
and this one is set in Winnipeg, Manitoba in the
eighties and that is called a taste for blood. So
once I have more details on that one, once it's
self published, I'll let you guys know. That is if
you like vampire stories. It's not everybody's taste, get it anyway,
(04:28):
enjoy this episode. Thank you again for listening to us,
and definitely if you want to get a hold of
us and tell us any of your ghost stories or
paranormal experiences, don't hesitate. Contact us at giving Up the
Ghost podcast at gmail dot com. And we are everywhere.
The podcasts or listen to downloaded around the world forty
three countries. Last I saw as Share says, we are
(04:51):
spread around the world. So any who enjoy today's episode,
and again, thank you, thank you, thank you, and remember
to live every day it is your last. But never
give up the ghost shout for now. Oh sorry, just
trying out.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Hello everybody, thank you so much for coming out tonight.
We're just getting a set up here, so just a
moment and then we'll be doing some introductions.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I think that works.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Hi, awesome, Does you guys work?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Does yours work?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Hello?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Well? That's the important one.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That's the money shot right there.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Thank you imputably can figure out.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
There you go?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Okay, okay, Hi, how is everybody tonight? Thanks for coming out? Awesome?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Well yeah, like I said, thank you guys so much
for coming out. I'm As from Winnipeg Paranormal Group, and
I've got my partner Kelly over here.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
On the edge, and I'm Jazz from Giving Up the
Ghost Podcast.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
And we've got one of our best friends, amazing author and.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Writer. Writer. Yeah, yes, writer.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So you've got Chris Raherowski here tonight.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
So thank you so much for coming up. Woo Louder, louder, louder.
All right, louder, Okay, how's this?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Is this a little better?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
All right? You know you guys speak up, louder, come
on now, that's good okay. So Chris is known to
be a world renowned Canadian known Actually I saw you
on TV the other day.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I was leaving back at you. Did you see me?
I saw you?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I felt the love you were commentating on Close Encounters
on ten from twenty fifteen.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Oh yeah, way back, way back way, oh man.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So he is Manitoba's known uphologist. He has tons of
UFO investigation stories and also paranormal stories, so we want
to kind of throw that part into it as well.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
So Chris was a paranormal investigator before Ghostbusters.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I was. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
In fact, we had something called Manitoba Mysteries Group, which
in the nineteen eighties, so you know, way back when
we were still using rocks and stuff to you know things,
and we.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Had it in here in Winnipeg. Was based here and.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
We investigated ghosts and sas watch and lake monsters and UFOs,
we had we did everything because we were the only
ones around and suddenly this Ghostbusters things shows up and
and TV shows and whatnot, so we actually were ahead
of the curve.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, do you want to start us off with some
interesting stories.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Or anything that's come up new interesting story as opposed
to the other ones that I usually have. First of all,
I have to I have to show off. How's the shirt?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Nice?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Very very spiffy, very nice.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
My wife has introduced me to the Wonders of of
T moves very good. So yeah, I've been at this
for a while and I have a lot of stories
on UFOs and ghosts.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
So we started out with the ghost we investigated, uh
here in Winnipeg, there are a couple of places you
may know. The Hamilton House you probably have heard of
and people have been involved with. It's closed now, but
at one time you could go there and eat and drink.
But there's also places around town like Mother Tuckers and
(09:18):
you know that used to be the what was it
now the Masonic Temple. And in the Masonic Temple we
had found coffins and there's all sorts of interesting stories
of ghosts that we're seen in there by some of
the patrons. So lots of places around town, the Saint Andrew's,
Lower Fort Garry h you know, these places have these traditions.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So we did a lot of investigating.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
But at one point it was just too much going
after the Sasquatch and lake monsters and ghosts and UFOs.
It was just too much, so we I started to
specialize in the UFO stuff. Although I am still a
consultant for the Winnipeg Paranormal so I'm still active and
we still do a few things. I just got back
(10:05):
from thunder Bay Or I spent some time with the
Six Nations Investigators of Paranormal Experiences. I spent some time
with the Beyond the Beyond, the what's the women in
in BC. There's Anyways, there's a lot of a lot
(10:27):
of the people on TV shows right now are beyond
the beyond the hunting, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Anyways?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
So a lot of the people you see on TV
that are ghost hunting and stuff I spend time with,
and I've actually spent some time in Thunder Bay on
some investigations. But the UFO stuff is always attracted to me.
But is there a like, what's the difference between the
UFOs and the ghost stuff? And sometimes it's a little
(10:54):
hard to tell. For example, March nineteen seventy seven, so
this goes way way back. I think Brian Barkley was
about this high. Oh wait, he still is just a second, but.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
He You know. There it goes way way back.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
And a fellow named Ludwig Siegel was driving on a
road here in Manitoba close to the American border, heading
for a town called Sundown. Now this is close to,
as I mentioned, the close to American border. But he's
driving along and as he's driving along, this was about
(11:35):
six o'clock in the morning and it's still fairly dark
out in March from nineteen seventy seven, he's driving along
and he sees this sort of ufoe thing. It's a
disc shaped object that resolves into a saucer. It's over
the road, but it's all kind of sparkly and sort
of looks like you can almost see through it, but
it's definitely just hanging over the road. And he drives
(11:59):
right under it, and he thought, well, this is really
really weird, but he keeps on driving. And as he's driving,
he goes over hill and he starts picking up speed
and he's coming down and he sees in front of
him three creatures that he describes as white bowling pins
(12:22):
sort of heads and then they have a bigger body
between the neck and the head, and they're standing across
the road in front of him. They're all white, no faces,
no arms, no legs, just these three bowling pin things
right in front of him. And he realizes he can't
(12:42):
stop and tell in time to keep from hitting him,
so he just kept on going and didn't even take
his foot off the accelerator. He was in such shock.
And he gets closer and closer, and he drives right
over them. In his rear view mirror hadn't felt a bump,
(13:02):
and in his rear view mirror. He could see them smaller,
kind of deflating, like they were some sort of balloony things.
Now where those ghosts were those aliens, I don't know,
but they see it sort of crosses between the two.
But what's interesting is what happened next because he stopped
(13:27):
the car and he looked for broken glass on his
windshields or his headlights, looked around, couldn't see any sign
of these creatures. So he did the most rational thing
that you could possibly do. He went and drove to
the RCMP office and told them just picture this. He
(13:48):
comes in, it's like six fifteen in the morning, comes
in the door and they say, can I help you, sir,
and he says, yes, I just killed three people. So
the RCMP immediately drove with them back to the site
and they took all measurements and there was no sign
of anything. But that was a case where somebody had
(14:11):
an interaction with ghosts or aliens and they reported it
to the police, and the police just sort of huh,
can you just imagine trying to write that one up.
So that shows you that that there's this this fine
line that's very wavy and diffuse between the paranormal and
(14:34):
the UFO.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yes, what is your belief on people being able to
call UFOs? Because I keep hearing it if you hear
a lot.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yeah, Online you can see all sorts of videos of
people that say that if you there's something called whistleedowns
and you can call the UFOs and aliens if you
have this right frequency and all this sort of stuff,
or you can telepathically contact them and they'll come down
to you. I've never I've been with people who said
(15:12):
they could do that, and they've never been able to
do that. Or they say, see look at that. There
it is and like a satellite flies overhead or a
plane or something. So I don't really buy into it.
And then the other thing is they can't do it
necessarily on command all the time. So I'm standing here,
(15:33):
can you.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
You know, call down a UFO? Well, you know, you
have to be.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
In the right frame of mine. You know, the precipitation
has to be just right, and you know, just you
know that sort of things that I don't buy that.
That's fair, ye okay, okay, So do you want you
want another story? Oh you want another story about how
about stand houb about who stand stand Hollow? Okay, okay,
(16:01):
So who here has been out to Falcon Lake. A
few of you, so you probably know the story I'm
going to talk about, right, the guy who is burned
by the flying saucer at Falcon Lake. This goes back
even further if you can imagine nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
And it was the May Long weekend in nineteen sixty seven,
and there was a fellow named Stefan me Hollick, and
he was a bit of a rock hound. He had
moved to Canada from Eastern Europe and he, you know,
thought was kind of interested in rocks and things like that.
(16:46):
So he had taken the bus a number of times
from his home in River Heights. That's fine, I can
see the microphone. It's okay, And it's it's that he
took the bus and he would stay overnight on the
Friday night and do some sort of poking around, prospecting
(17:08):
or whatever on the Saturday, and then take the bus
back on Sunday. He had his favorite spot too, and
where this spot was was just north of the town
of Falcon Lake, on the north side of the Trans
Canada Highway.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
And he had actually found some interesting rocks. He had
staked some claims.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Most of you probably don't know that there are gold
mines not that far away from Falcon Lake. The Besett
gold Mine has been open and shot a couple of times.
But there's some veins of copper and possibly gold close
to Falcon Lake, but we're not entirely sure. But he
(17:47):
had staked some claims and had registered that he was
looking for that sort of stuff. So the May Long
weekend nineteen sixty seven, he'd got out there by bus
on Friday night, six o'clock in the morning. He packs
his gear, has a backpack and has a briefcase with
his stuff in it because he's also a bit.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Of an artist.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
And he wandered into the bush and he spent some
time looking around at things, and around lunchtime he stopped
beside this rock out cropping. And if you know the
Falcon Lake area West Hawk, there's these big ridges with big,
you know, tall cliffs and stuff like that, you know,
with not mountainous by any means.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
But they're fairly high ridges.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
And he'd stopped for lunch overlooking this this sort of
pond swampy area where there was a beaver dam and
there's a bunch of geese sort of paddling along on
this swampy area, and as he's having his lunch, he
had pulled out and unwrapped his lunch that he had
made for himself. All of a sudden, the geese fly
(18:50):
off there, make a big racket and they fly off.
And he's thinking, oh, there must be a bear somewhere around, and.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
You know, because there bears out.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
There, and he was looking and he was worried that
there might be some. He had his bear bell and
things like that, but he didn't see any bears, didn't
see any reason for the geese to have taken off
all of a sudden. But up in the sky there
were two bright objects. He said, they were kind of
like cigar shaped, very very bright, shiny, like shining in
the sun. This was noon on a Saturday afternoon, which
(19:24):
was already kind of bright, but these things were really
bright and shining. And as he watched, they came down
a little bit further and further, and one of them
hung up in the sky, but the other one started
descending more and more and more, and he eventually saw
this was not a cigar shape. This was actually a
Hollywood style flying saucer that eventually came down and landed
(19:48):
on a flat rock up outcropping about one hundred meters
oh no, listen to that, maybe fifty one hundred meters away,
And it was a saucer shape with a dome on top.
And he didn't see it he legs or anything like that.
No portholes that he could see. But this thing is
(20:09):
just sitting there, and as he's watching it, it's not
white anymore. It's yellow, and then orange and then red
like it's cooling down and eventually cools down to the
part point where it's just silver. Like he said, it
was some sort of metallic gray or silver, and the
sunlight was gleaming off it a little bit, but it
(20:31):
was sort of burnished somehow. But as he's watching this,
there are lights coming out of the top of the
dome which were very very bright, and a little door
opened in the side of this thing, not like a door,
but like an iris of a camera, just sort of
sliding one into the other.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And he heard some voices.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
And over the next half hour he's watching this and
he's sketching it, and he's listening to the voices, and
he can't make out what the voices they're saying. He says,
it's high some sort of gibberish or.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Something like that, and he thought, well, what is this.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
He thought, well, this must be some Americans secret landing
something or other, because in nineteen sixty seven, here's your history.
You're learning something tonight. This was the year that the
Apollo program really got.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Going, nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
As a matter of fact, Apollo won, which was actually
never called Apollo one. It actually had an accident on
the land on the launch pad and three astronauts were killed.
It was all over the news in nineteen sixty seven,
and this was just a number of months after that,
so he knew that the American space program was underway.
(21:49):
Maybe this was a test vehicle that had broken down
and they had to land somewhere for repair. So he's
listening to these voices and he think, oh, yeah, because
of the these voices, it must be Americans. So I figured, Okay,
they broke down there, they figured nobody was around to
see them. But I'm here, so I'm a mechanic. He
(22:10):
was a mechanic. He stood up, walked towards the flying saucer.
I don't know how many of you would be walking
towards flying saucers. But he walked towards the flying saucer.
You would, you would, jazz boy, oh boy, not again anyways,
(22:31):
and he calls out, okay, Yankee boys, come on out.
I'll give you a hand fixing your broken down flying machine.
And the voices stopped. And he thought, not Americans, Russian now,
because this was the Cold War, and he happened to
(22:52):
be from Eastern Europe and knew a couple of different languages,
so he called out in Russian, nose Vennia or whatever,
and you know, and no voices didn't start again. He
tried again in German, he tried again in Polish. Nothing happened.
But he was by this time standing right in front
of this thing, and he reached out to touch it,
(23:16):
and his rubber eyed glove he had rubberized gloves on
to protect his hands from the rock chips and whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
The rubberized glove melted when it touched the side of
this thing.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
This thing was still pretty hot, and he pulled away,
and all of a sudden, this door shut, the whole
thing started rotating, and in front of them was an
exhaust vent of some sort of grid with holes and
lines and a blast of hot gas hit him in
the chest, set fire to the pine needles, set fire
(23:47):
to his clothes, and the thing took off and flew away. Well,
he ripped off his clothes that were on fire, took
off his shirt, his undershirt, and he stomped out the
pine needles as best he could in the leaves. And
he started getting very very ill. He was dizzy, he
(24:10):
was burned, he was injured. He eventually made it back.
He said, I have to get some medical attention. He
eventually made it back to Falcon Lake, got on the
bus and got back to Winnipeg, went to the miser
Accordia Hospital to the emergency department where they treated him
for her first and second degree burns. And then the
(24:31):
story came out because they said, how did you burn
yourself in the middle of the forest in Falcon Lake,
And he said, well, some sort of airplane. Well, the
RCMP and National Defense took an interest in this, and
investigators from the RCMP and the Canadian Force of the
Air Force at that time investigated.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
They showed up at his home.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
They went and talked to his family, They talked to
his people at work, trying to figure out what had happened.
Matter of fact, we have found about five hundred pages
of classified government documents detailing the investigation of the RCMP
and National Defense into.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
This particular case.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
So if you ever hear that the government isn't interested,
there's no information, there's no files.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
We have five hundred pages, so we know it.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Was investigated, and we have the conclusions of the RCMP
and National Defense which both said they have no explanation
for what was found.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Now, he was very sick.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
And he was taken to Pinowaw at the White Shell
Nuclear Research Center tested for radiation. You always your UFO's
land and there's radiation all over the place. Well, he
wasn't radioactive, but when the site was found, radiation was
found at the site in just north of the Falcon Lake.
As a matter of fact, it was so radioactive that
(25:52):
the government of Manitoba thought about closing all of Falcon
Lake in the White Shell Provincial Park for the summer.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Can you imagine closing white Shell for this?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
No?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
No, no, they decided against it.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
But they was so as far as to dig up
or see if they anybody had dug up from the
nuclear waste site. You may not know that Manitoba has
a nuclear waist site, but they went there and they
wanted to see if somebody had tampered with it and
taken some radiation out, some radioactive material. A year after
(26:26):
this had happened, he went back.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
His burns had healed, he was feeling better.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
He went back and he found just in a crack
in the rock over which this saucer had landed, pieces
of metal, and the metal was radioactive to the point
we actually have some of these pieces still today. There's
still radioactive. And my wife Donna convinced me to not
(26:54):
leave it on the dining room table anymore. She says,
put that in your office. Leave it next year computer. Yeah, buzzkill.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
It was a nice conversation piece. Incidentally, talking about TV
and stuff, I just finished a thirteen week episode of
filming of a new TV show called UFO Point of View,
which is going to be aired on I think either
History or Discovery or one of those things in March
(27:27):
of March of this year. And the Falcon like case
is the is the last episode that leave you hanging.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
So it's a case that.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Happened here in Manitoba. Still has not been explained by
the government. And there's physical evidence, there's radiation, and it's
one of those classic cases.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I think it's better than that silly.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Old Roswell thing because the American government doesn't even admit
anything happened there, but the Canadian government, Oh yeah. You
can still go out by the way to Falcon Lake
and go to the Falcon Beach Ranch and by horseback
you can visit.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
The UFO site.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Is it Is it fenced off there, like do they have?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's not fenced off.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
It's on the property of the of the ranch itself
and they take people out on tours and it's, believe
it or not, it's a forty five minute horseback ride
each way. I mean it's it's it's the only way
in because it's in the middle of nowhere, and so
(28:31):
it's you know, if you're going to fake something, why
do it in a place that's so inaccessible, you know,
put it somewhere I don't know, next to the PanAm
pool or something, you know that everybody can drive by.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
And is some of that still at the university as well?
Speaker 4 (28:47):
As a matter of fact, Kelly, thank you for asking
that all of my files on this case have been
given to the University of Manitoba Archives and occasionally they
pull them out, but there is his hat is still
he was wearing a little hat somewhat like this that's burned.
His undershirt from nineteen sixty seven showing the burn marks,
(29:10):
a little bit torn up, a little bit yellow.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I have a shirt just like it, but.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
It's in the University archive. They have more than just books,
and they have all these artifacts and files and whatnot,
and they're there for the public to do research on.
Along with the University of Manitava Archives also has things
like the Hamilton photographs of the ectoplasm and the covering
shares and everything from paranormal.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Investigations as well.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Matter of fact, University of Manitoba has one of the
largest paranormal collections in all around the world.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I think at the last.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Count, they had seventy five separate collections of paranormal artifacts,
including the UFO stuff in their archives, including the files
of Peter Ackroid, who is Dan Ackroyd's father. Speaking of ghostbusters,
he who was an actual ghostbuster and investigator, and.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
All his files are there, so you know, there's a
very rich history of all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Collection.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
It's a wicked collection. It's a spooky collection.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Spooky Actually it's at the Elizabeth Dafauex Library Library.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, very cool.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Any other questions I have one? Okay, what are your
thoughts on the Skinwalker range?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Now, some of you are who watches the TV show
about Skinwalker, bunch of you and you guys. Yeah, so
there's good news and bad news. First of all, Skinwalker
is a little odd of a place. But there's a
guy here in Winnipeg named Mike Manyas who has actually
been to Skinwalker Rash and he was toured there. He
(30:55):
stayed there and he said nothing happened, he said every
but he was saying do you see that shadow?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Do you see that? What was that?
Speaker 4 (31:04):
But they are encouraging people, you know, suggesting that something
was happening, But he nothing happened while he was there.
Now does that mean that nothing's happening. No, But he
just came back with not the best view of that.
It's the type of thing where, you know, on a
lot of the TV shows that are on now, you know,
like if search for Bigfoot or whatever, they tromp around
(31:26):
on the bush and they say, well this tree is
bent this way maybe and there's something we heard and
there could be a footprint, but no really solid evidence.
That's kind of the same thing with Skinwalker Edge. A
lot of hype but not really anything of substance. That's
that's my view of all that, right, that's fair. Anybody else,
(31:49):
does anybody have a question regarding the UFOs?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
And the other thing is I've been at this a while.
I mean I have been.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Investigating UFOs and paranormal phenomena for.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Fifty years. I am that old. I am very very old.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
I was investigating the haunted houses here in Winnipeg since
nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
That's why I asked you when I first started.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, you were you wear this high? I think she
still is that high?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
What question over there?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Where's it? But yes, you mentioned that they bun of
metals from the Balkan light.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Do you know, like the everitted like something like Gary Holland.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
For like a past.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
It's interesting that there's a lot of claims about materials
found that are related to UFOs and meta materials and
all this thing.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
I have published.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
The fact that I have this material and the metal
and it has been tested not by Gary, but it's
been tested by accredited universities. University of Chicago. It's been
tested at the u of M, of course, and University
of Arizona. A lot of scientists have analyzed it. As
a matter of fact, it was most recently analyzed at
(33:15):
the at the u of M at the new what's
it called Materials Manitoba Institute of Materials, which is a.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
New space age lab at the u of M.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Two stories underground, and it looks like a James Bond
villain's lair. It's really cool, lots of neon and stuff.
They have an electron microscope there and we put this
metal on there and it turns out that this metal
is almost.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Pure silver and radioactive.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
It's not radioactive silver, it's regular silver that has been
somehow made radioactive with some other material that's on it.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And there's some of these.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
The piece, one of the pieces I have, is this
big like it's a good four or five inches long,
pure silver, and.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I back in nineteen sixty seven they.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Weren't making brackets or anything out of silver. It also
looks like it's been melted, like it was melted somehow
into this rock. And all these experts supposedly they have
all these pieces. None of the pieces are anywhere near
as big as the pieces we have. Gary Nolan and
all those other people knew about this and have never
(34:35):
been interested in talking about it, never been interested in
testing it, never mentioned it in any of their expertise
and lectures about materials found through UFO.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Cases, and we haven't.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
So who's the experts around here?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Anyone else? Yeah? Abductions? Okay, As a matter of fact, I.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Was in thunder Bay specifically speaking about UFO abductions. You
don't hear much about them these days, but there's still
a popular topic in some circles at one time. And
I'm trying to remember what year it was. I think
it was early nineties when they I'm gonna stand up.
I think it was, Oh yeah, I need this.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I think it was.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
I think it was early nineties when the abduction thing
was really, really popular, and I had had people come
up to me after my talks and lectures saying, you know,
I didn't want to say anything in front of everybody,
but you know, I think I was abducted. I have
this missing time and other sort of stuff. And so
(35:52):
I did work with a number of people who said
they were abducted by aliens.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I worked with a clinical.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Psychologist, not because I thought they were crazy, but because
some of these people had extreme anxiety. One was worried
that the aliens were watching him and he was afraid
to get out of his apartment and all that sort
of stuff. At least a few of the people attempted
suicide because the aliens were watching them too much, and
(36:20):
so I turned that over to psychologists. But it's a
matter of overcoming some of the anxieties and fears that
people have. But I did actually facilitate a support group
for people who had experienced or believe they had experienced abductions,
and that ran for a little while, but I've withdrawn
(36:40):
from that. At the same time that we don't hear
much more about it because I think there's and I
recommended people go to their family doctor, go to a psychologist,
not because you're crazy, but because you have these fears.
These are things that are really bothering you, that that
are very meaningful to yourself, and they play into some
(37:01):
other feelings that you have, and they're affecting your family,
they're affecting your life. So for gosh sakes, go see
a therapist about it for whatever, yes, have The question
is have I encountered multiple people I seen to re call.
(37:22):
There were a few couples in the support group, no
more than that. But some of the witnesses or some
of the abductees had some really profound.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Experiences.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
One woman was a nurse who came to me after
I was interviewed on TV or something and.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
So they knew to contact me.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
And this nurse had said that she was living in
a townhouse in the south end of the city and
she was working really hard. She was, you know, just
I can't imagine how nurses are working these days, with
twenty hours and thirty hours and all that sort of thing.
But she was working double shifts, didn't have time to
watch TV, had never seen Star Trek or Star Wars,
(38:13):
or you know, didn't watch a lot of TV because
she was working so much. She would come home, you know,
have somebody they eat, get a few hours of sleep,
and then go back. She came home one night, like
two or three in the morning, and she came home
and walked down her hallway towards her living room and
then in the bedroom in the back. And she got
into the bedroom and she was getting ready to get
(38:35):
ready for sleep, and there was a big bang, boom
thump in the living room, and she thought, oh, no,
you know, somebody's broken in. It was around Halloween, so
maybe somebody is, you know, playing a trick on her
or something. So she ran out of the bedroom or so, yeah,
ran out of the bedroom into the hallway, into the
living room, and there were two kind of like the
(38:57):
bowling pin creatures, not the aliens that you see usually,
but they had round heads, two round eyes each, and
then they had a sort of a long white skirt.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Now, where's the yes, very much like what you're wearing.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Very much like, in fact, very very much Okay. Anyways,
so they were looking at her, and she immediately, because
it was instinct, get out of my home.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
What are you doing here?
Speaker 4 (39:30):
And they looked at her, and then they looked at
each other, and then they looked back at her, and
she thought, these aren't kids. These aren't you know, teenagers
or whatever. And she heard telepathically in her mind, would
you like to come for a ride with us?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
We mean you no harm.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Now, of course, I'm sure all of you have had
situations where somebody said, hey, you want to go for
a ride, and you've all said yes.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
So she said su.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
And the next thing she knows, she's somewhere else. She's
in a big hall or auditorium in which there are
a number of UFO flying saucers, and one of the
creatures is behind her and the other one is in
front of her, and they're walking across the tarmac or
whatever towards one of these saucers, and there's a ramp
(40:24):
going in a gangway, and she goes down the hall
inside this thing, and they sit down at this console
and there's a big screen and a bunch of buttons
on the dashboard. One sits on either side of her,
and she's sitting down and she's watching, and there's this
image of the Earth which goes smaller and smaller and
smaller and smaller and smaller. And the next thing she knows,
(40:50):
she's in her bedroom. Three hours later, she's still in
her clothes, the bed has not been slept in, and
she is no other memory of anything that happened. So
I said to her, I said, well, you know, did
you drink anything or you know, No, no, no, I
(41:10):
don't drink. I don't do drugs anything like that. As
a matter of fact, I didn't even have an anchovy
pizza anything that usually upsets my stomach.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I don't dream vividly. I don't have that kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
I said, well, would you like me to interview or
you know other people in the area. You know, we
can put you on TV or on cjob or in
the Winnipeg Sun and you know, find somebody else that
might have seen. She said, no, No, I'm just telling
you because you're the one who was interested in this,
So I'm telling you the story and that's where the
story ends.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
So what do you do with cases like that? And
I've had people.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Who, you know, I've had an Air Force officer come
into my office at the University of Manitoba and tell
me he can't tell his commanding officer what happened, but
he thinks he was abducted by aliens.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
What do you do with these cases?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Do you document them? Though?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Well, I've documented.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
In fact, I wrote a book about specifically abductions called
Abductions and Aliens, available through Dunder and Press on Amazon,
look at Chris Rakowski and fine bookstores everywhere. So yeah,
there's again. Was that a paranormal experience? Was it a
spiritual Did she travel you know, mentally or spiritually? Or
(42:31):
did it really happen, and what does really happen mean anyways, So.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
You're saying that people.
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Don't talk about it anymore, but there are still people
like the groups made up. Do you think it's just
because they're self conscious because it's.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Not well, abductions isn't as popular anymore necessarily, there are
groups that still continue. You're right, but people have moved
on to you know, egg shaped things and government cover
up and planetary comets and asteroids flying through the Solar System,
(43:11):
that type of thing. You don't hear about the abductions necessarily,
but there's still cases going on. As far as UFO reports,
we still get somewhere around one thousand separate UFO reports
in Canada filed every year. As a matter of fact,
I'm just in the process of working on the twenty
twenty five data and you know it's the report will
(43:33):
be out early next year. But you know, and over
we've been doing this since nineteen eighty nine, and since
nineteen eighty nine, we have something like twenty five thousand
separate UFO reports in Canada that have been filed about.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Three a day.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
And where does Manitoba, Manitoba rank.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
It's related to populations.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
So more cases are in Toronto, you know, Ontario, BC, Manitoba.
It's maybe thirty cases a year something like that.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
That's not too bad.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
And we also know from our statistics, from looking at
the data, that ten of all Canadians believe they've seen UFOs.
So in a group like this, hands up, a handful
of you are not fissing up.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Who thinks they've seen a UFO? Hands up?
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Okay, okay, there you go, gett representative. Yep, red light
at gull Lake. Usually it's red light at Carmen. But
but I know, I know that, you know gull Lake
has had some Remember something at s Dead You remember
(44:43):
something at Stead? Really I heard of Really, I've heard
about cases from Stead and what's the other town out
that way? Yeah, but I know the area, Yeah, I
haven't by it.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
I I don't. I know that there have been cases.
I can't think of any off.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Hands okay, cause I wanna tell you how I was
was back in nineteen seventy five. Okay, uh huh.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
A friend of mine and I went on this little
manybody and we went on this trail in the in
the in the bush, yes whatever. It was like justaf
and midnight, we saw a red light in the trees.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Mm. And I mean there's no little there was no towels,
backsand or anything.
Speaker 5 (45:27):
Hm.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
So when we got back to my cousin's place, I
totally saw this red light and he said, well, don't
you know about the red light?
Speaker 4 (45:36):
It go it?
Speaker 2 (45:36):
And I said, no, I've never heard about it. And
my daughter, she would be with me.
Speaker 5 (45:41):
My same cousin, Cole told her a story about his
aunt who has a cabin kind of want to look
in front if we're kind of.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Pretty for her four each other.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
She said that she saw you a hole over my cabin.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
Oooh that would have been back in the seventies, in
the seventie okay with her, and.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
She's not like she's a very.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
Mean, very street lace.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Kind of out you know, right.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
But I just ask you, yeah, well, yeah, there's there's reports,
you know, a little bit north of there in east
like Buconia, Yeah, and up the Grand Beach and that
type of thing.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Yeah. Yeah, cool. Interesting, Well thank you for that, Yeah, thank.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
You, thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
Got a couple questions.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Okay, what do you think about the.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
Blowing up of the fire in the sky story for abductions,
the blowing up of the Fire in the Sky. Oh though,
the debunking of the Fire in the Sky. Well, there's
a lot of controversy. Fire in the Sky if you
don't know, Travis Walton was nineteen seventy seven something like that.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
It's it's been on TV.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
They're actually a film about it called Fire in the
Sky where some loggers were driving along and this saucer
appeared and one got out and ran towards it. He
was zapped by a by a beam and they got
scared and drove away.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And left him behind. Great friends and saying that his
brother in law said they faith didn't explain how to
end up.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
Yeah, And and for a number of years, everybody like
they took light detector tests and he was eventually found,
but some of them insisted that it was real. Now
and it turns out they were behind in the logging
contract and they were going to There's all sorts of
people who have come out with reasons why.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
They faked it.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
Some people said it was faked, some of them. One
of the loggers definitely said it, but they're not talking
to him. And you know, there's a whole that sort
of stuff. One of the best it's called one of
the best cases ever. But there are some explanations. And
I met him, this guy named Travis Walton. The number
of times we've had dinner with him, and I know
(48:00):
my wife. We were having dinner with him and Stan
Friedman a few others and after dinner, my wife turned
to me and said, he acts and looks and sounds
exactly like a used car salesman.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
So I don't know whether that's positive.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
But I mean, you know, there's people who believe and
don't believe, and I don't know whether you're here to
believe or not believe.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
I don't care. I can tell you the stories, whether
you want to believe them or not.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
I can back up almost everything I say with documents
and additional stories.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
And Kelly has seen some of these documents. And you know,
what do you do with these cases? I don't know.
But a lot of the stories you hear about do
have explanations.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
And I would say, out of all the cases, maybe
five percent don't have really good, easy explanations. The rest
are could be literally anything, And I apply that to
everything in life sometimes.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah, okay, so here's a question for you.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Alright, So just because you've document, and you hear all
these things doesn't necessarily mean you believe. Do you believe
that there's something else out there?
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I believe. I'll have another drink. I believe. I believe.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
But my backgrounds in astronomy, by the way, and in education.
I have degrees in astronomy and education. I try to
tell people how wonderful the universe is. Unfortunately we're stuck
down here, but out there it's really neat. But my
astronomy background tells me that there's life out there, somewhere,
(49:47):
somewhere around a distant star, maybe not that distant, but
somewhere out there, there's a star with a planet around
it that might have, you know, life like us. And
it could be that there's you know, flying saucers out here.
And those stars might be, you know, a thousand years
(50:09):
older than our son, ten thousand, a million years older
than our son, so the civilization might be that much
older too. If so, they could have figured out a
way not to break the laws of physics, but to
bend them in ways that we don't know yet. And
if so, they could be coming here. So I think
it's possible, But I'm the ultimate doubting Thomas I need
(50:31):
to see something. Sure, you know, I know Ashley's here,
but until I actually you know, so, I don't know.
It's it's a belief is a very interesting thing.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
So I was just going to say that leading up
to that sort of three I.
Speaker 4 (50:48):
Atlas Okay, Atlas.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, yeah, So people are all excited about Atlas. This this, Uh,
what's your take on it.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
I'm actually I'm actually in an organization led by the
guy who's hyping at Lias right now. His name is
Avi Lob at Harvard University, and I meet with scientists
from Harvard University every month talking about stuff including this.
This fellow is convinced that No, he's not convinced. He
(51:18):
says it's possible, and people miss the possible part. He says,
it's possible that this object that's flying through our solar
system at a funny angle, at a funny speed, and
in a funny direction, in a funny shape, and seems
to be very strange in terms of its reflective properties
may not be an asteroid or a comet, may actually
(51:40):
be a spaceship from another star, from another civilization, And
people have just taken that and run with it. At
this point, we have no evidence that it actually is.
It's just could be a really weird asteroid or something
like that, and you can't see it from Winnipeg. There
is a commet you can see, as a matter of fact,
it's clear tonight, isn't it. You should be able to see.
(52:02):
It's called Comet Lemon and it's it's very visible, but
not this one. And you're not gonna be able to
see this comet Atlas for before it disappears.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Sorry I interrupted, Sorry ahead.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
I have never seen anything that I couldn't explain. I've
been out on UFO hunts, I've been on sasquatch hunts,
and I've been you know, on paranormal investigations, and you know,
there's some funny lights and bumps and noises, and as
far as the UFOs go, I've seen some lights that
(52:41):
could have been stars and planes and planets and all
that sort of stuff, but nothing that I really.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
Couldn't explain it.
Speaker 4 (52:47):
Nothing sort of jumped out at me and said, this
is amazing, this is unusual. But you know, it's it's
very possible. This group that I'm with is by the
aav LO. One of the other things that he's doing.
He's not getting as much attention on is that he's
(53:10):
built or had some people built for him UFO observing stations,
three of them in the United States and so far,
and they're training AI to use all the cameras and
everything on board to look for UFOs. And so far
they've examined more than one hundred thousand objects that have
(53:32):
been detected and not one of them is unexplained. And
here's something you probably have not heard. They just installed
the latest of these observatories looking for UFOs. And you'll
never guess where it's been installed. Have you heard about this?
(53:52):
Who's been to Las Vegas, who's been to the sphere?
They put the UFO observing station on the top of
the sphere?
Speaker 2 (54:06):
They built it.
Speaker 4 (54:07):
Yeah, yeah, wow, yeah, yeah, and it just started operating
this week.
Speaker 5 (54:13):
Interesting.
Speaker 4 (54:13):
Yeah, it's it's your scoop.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Any other questions, any other Yes, So you were saying.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
That there's uh Canadian government's uh stuff on the Falcon Lake.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Did he also went to the American Uh? He went
to Minnesota because the things were the occurring.
Speaker 4 (54:37):
Were you able to get.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
You must have read my book? Oh you did, just
kept it kept coming and.
Speaker 3 (54:50):
You could go to the Americans were very interested.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Is that in our records or is that classified in
their records? Where they thought was we have all of that.
Speaker 4 (54:59):
What what happened was he while he was recovering and
his his burns were never healing properly. He actually went
to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester in Minnesota on his
own dying because it wasn't covered under Medicare at that time,
and they went for a full battery, full physical examination,
(55:22):
a psychiatric examination. And we have the medical records from
the Mayo Clinic, you know, and the the Mayo Clinic psychiatrist.
I'll give you one example. He said, this guy is
down to earth and is not the type of person
to make stories up. Well, it recurred for a while, Yeah,
(55:47):
they were. They thought it was some sort of allergic
reaction to whatever gas it was that he was exposed to.
They eventually did stop, but they had no idea, no, no, yeah,
one more question on any any topic, anything and everything,
anything and everything. Why are you here, oh this guy here?
(56:13):
Have you ever looked started at any research into like
the Jack can Manitoba I did. I did back in
two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
It wasn't all that long ago.
Speaker 4 (56:29):
Fifteen was it fifteen, there was a story that a
UFO had crashed onto the frozen Lake Winnipeg and that
the government had covered up and told all the residents
of the jack d First Nation to shut up and
never say anything. And so I thought, okay, And there
(56:51):
was also a photograph that was posted on a lot
of websites. So I contacted the First Nation's band office.
They laugh, they left, They said, no, it's all ridiculous
because it was a thing called Operation North Bison or
something like that. And the Canadian Forces do a cold
(57:13):
weather training on Lake Winnipeg almost every year, fully document
in fact, the website has like one hundred photographs. And
they go from one end of Lake Winnipeg to the
other on snowmobile and the snowmobiles broke down because it
was so cold, so they actually had to fly in
and land on the lake and then take off again
(57:34):
rescuing the Canadian Forces personnel because the snowmobiles were frozen.
That's what happened, And somebody made up this amazing story
about UFO's landing and the government covering it up, and
just by talking with the Band office, they just said, no,
it's just the silliest thing you've ever heard of, And
they said, can you just imagine the government telling us
(57:55):
to shut up? No, anybody, I mean the government would
I'll can you actually government tell you.
Speaker 2 (58:02):
To shut up?
Speaker 5 (58:03):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (58:03):
God, no, I'd be the first one speaking up there
you go, yep, anyone else?
Speaker 2 (58:13):
Okay, okay, we'll.
Speaker 3 (58:16):
Take a little break you guys ten minutes or so,
refill your drinks, get some liquid courage, and then we're
gonna open up the floor to open mic stories. So,
as usual, we encourage all paramormal stories. Aliens obviously are
day tonight, but aliens goes sasquatch whatever. We want to
hear your stories. We do have a board up here
(58:36):
that you guys can sign up on just so we
don't miss you if you have a story. We also
have an amazing vendor here tonight, so please make sure
to stop by and see after Dark Design. They've got
some great stuff out on their tables tonight. So yes,
we also have prizes tonight as usual, so please come
(58:58):
on over, fill out a bull and uhurries.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
And thank you to the gang here for inviting me
to speak. It's nice talking with you, thank you, thank you,
thank you very much, Chris
Speaker 1 (59:11):
So much to make us Christ welcome than sure
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Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.