Spirits with Spirits - A Night with Chris Rutkowski Part 1

Spirits with Spirits - A Night with Chris Rutkowski - Part 1

Well, there is more to the paranormal than ghosts....how do you feel about aliens? UFOs? we had the honour of having Chris Rutkowski come out to discuss with us his stunning career, resaerch and everything UFO August 29 during our monthly 'Spirits with Spirits'. 

Chris answered questions from the audience and we are pleased to say that 82 of you made it out this time - love it when like minded individuals come out, very cool. Chris discussed the Falcon Lake indicent, the Ghost Lights of Woodridge and his interest in Bigfoot. As well as th 11 books he had published over the year. 

This is Part 1, please make sure you come back for Part 2 as Chris explains who 'We are not alone'. 

As well, Please stop by the "Fantastical Emporium of Peculiar Finds - Market that will be held October 12, 2024 at 448 Burnell Street. We will be there, stop by and tell us your Paranormal Stories!!! As well, come out and see the amazing vendors with their marvelous wares! 

and.......Jas has a secret.......Do you like Murder stories? well, well, have I got something for you! Since Jas and Sher love Histories and Hauntings so much...... Jas has collected 31 horrific stories of murder, mystery and mayhem over the Province of Manitoba's 150 year history. 
Every day in October, Jas will share one of these gruesome and bizarre stories in her new limited series podcast - Macbre, Manitoba - please check it out! 

Enjoy this week's new episode!
Music by Ruesche-Sounds https://www.youtube.com/channel/USqXO

Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Tiktok & Redditt

If you have a local paranormal story of Winnipeg or in Manitoba, please email us at [e-mail] - or if you just want to say 'Hi'!!!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Hey everybody, it's me Jazz. Do you remember me?

Speaker 2 (00:42):
How could you forget me?

Speaker 1 (00:43):
And with my man sounding voice as I'm getting over
the plague, I'm just here quickly to intro and advertise
for this awesome event that myself and hopefully share her
if I can tie up and kidnap her and bar
down and definitely the ladies from the Winnipeg Paranormal Group
where should I say the people depending who they bring
with them, will be at the Fantastical Emporium of Peculiar Fines. Now,

(01:09):
this is coming up October twelfth, It's a Saturday. The
details are. It is at four forty eight Burnell Street,
so we would love to see you down there. Come
on down, bring your cash. There's lots of really cool
creepy stuff down there to purchase before Halloween, because tiss
is the season. And come say hi. We haven't talked
for a while. Thank you so much for listening to

(01:30):
the series. I shouldn't say series, but the episodes that
I've been releasing this past summer, mainly for the Spirits
with Spirits that we've been involved with every month, the
last Thursday at Little Brown jug So thanks for coming out.
If you were a part of that. It was an
amazing time and so many like minded people sharing and
telling their stories. We totally totally appreciate you and thank

(01:53):
you for coming out and saying that. Me and shar
do plan on getting together as the winter funs approach
and recording some more creepy cool stories because you guys
just do not disappoint. Thank you for the emails and
reaching out to us. Some interviews we will be scheduling
and like I say, keep in tuned here, like we're
going to be doing some more wicked good stuff with

(02:15):
spirits with spirits, but at a couple different locations coming up,
so that is all to be revealed as well. Keep
following the Winnipeg Paranormal group as they have a lot
of really cool tours coming up. They have the Aviation Museum,
which is extremely haunted. Tonight they are at Fort Lorraine
in Portage la Prairie. Hopefully they can get back and

(02:37):
do that again, because man, I need to be a
part of that. I've always want to check that place out.
I heard it's like twice as creepy haunted as Fort
Gary The Lord for Gary go figure. So anyway, again,
totally appreciate you guys following us, listening to our episodes,
reaching out to us. Somebody in Tokyo like downloaded our
whole catalog in one day like that was like one

(02:57):
hundred and seventy nine episodes at the time. Very impressive
that you can listen to that much of us. I'm
not sure if I can listen to that much of
us anyway. Again, pardon the voice. I've been deathly ill
with COVID getting better. I couldn't make the last Spirit
with Spirits. Ashley and her investigator partners from the Kenora
Paranormal Investigators Clay and Eileen. They helped her out. Thank you,

(03:20):
kudos guys for helping out Ash and doing the co
host ghost host bit anyway, Like I say, please please
please come see us, come out to the Fantastical Emporium
of Peculiar Fines. And again this will be October twelfth.
It's a Saturday from three to eight pm at four
forty eight Burnell Street in Winnipeg. And more thing before

(03:42):
I forget now, I am not crazy about true crime
because true crime is kind of sad, like you got
to think about. Yes, I know, we do the ghost stories,
which is like the end result of people being murdered
and such. But there is such a fascination with true
true crime and with share myself being fascinated with Manitoba.

(04:03):
There is so much shit that has gone down in
our province, in in Winnipeg, really weird, messed up crimes,
mayhem and mystery that have happened in our own province
that people forget. Nobody remembers these things, and some of
them are crazy, like batshit crazy. And saying that, I
kind of wanted to focus and take a bit of

(04:23):
a turn on things. So coming October October first, every
day I will have a new episode out for a
new podcast that so please check out my new podcast.
It's called Mayhem Manitoba where Murder, mystery and mayhem is
born and dies. So check that one out. Check there

(04:44):
is a Facebook page. Again, it's just a limited run
series just so people kind of like get the whole
history aspect right, because history and hauntings are kind of
like go hand in hand, as we always say, and
guess what, so do the murders. So please check out
my new podcast, limited run for thirty one days only
and it's called Macabre Manitoba. Enjoy So That is my

(05:10):
little promo for now. Please listen to part one of
the very cool episode we had with Spirits. With Spirits,
we had Chris Phertowski, Winnipeg or Manitoba's upologist come out.
My god, what an amazing night that was. This is
a two parter and after that you're kind of caught
up with the Spirits with Spirits, I believe. So after that,

(05:30):
I'm hoping to get some new episodes out with me
and share. Anyway, chow for now, and remember to live
every day like it is your last, but never give
up the ghost. Feel free to sit on the chair
if you want.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
I will understand.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
All right, Okay, I think we're good to go, guys,
So thanks for coming to Spirits with Spirits.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
My name is Jazz. I'm from Giving Up the Ghost podcast.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
My co hosts with.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Me are I'm Ashley from Winnipeg paran Our.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Well, Kelly from Winnipeg Paranormal, and we're pleased to present
our special guest for the night.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Big round of applause. It's Chris reposing.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
I bring.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
I actually, so anyway, if I have your bio, Chris,
do you want me to read your life story or
would you know so if anybody doesn't know he is
Manitoba's ohon, would.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
You call yourself uphologist?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Okay, excellent? And how many books have you had published?

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Now, I'm a real slapper. I only.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Eleven?

Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
He does have some books for sale.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
One of my early books is for sale over here
for especially for this crowd, discounted for books. And Christmas
is only how many months away?

Speaker 4 (07:01):
Not enough?

Speaker 2 (07:03):
So how did you get your start? Chris?

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Tell us?

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Where did it all start?

Speaker 3 (07:06):
Well? Actually it okay, we'll sit now here.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
We're very casual here.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
So I actually did start as a paranormal investigator. When
I started getting into the odd stuff, there were UFOs
being seen in Manitoba. I and this is this was
the nineteen seventies, so I'm really really old to start with.
And in nineteen seventies there are lots of UFOs are

(07:34):
being seen across Canada, in particularly year in Manitoba, a
little town called Carmen, a lot of UFOs out there,
and I investigate. But you know, when I was talking
with people about some of the UFOs that they were seeing,
I would say, you know, anything else if you want
to tell me about it? Said no, no, you know,
other than the you know, the you know, my Aunt

(07:54):
Mary's ghost that you saw walking around the house the
other day, or the sasquatch that was seen just down
the road, or the lake monster that one of the
master fishermen was encountering while he was fishing in Lake Manitoba.
So you know, we've had a rich history of all

(08:15):
this sort of stuff. I at the time there was
nobody investigating, so I was it and I got together
with a few of my cohorts and friends and we
started something called Manitoba Mysteries in the nineteen eighties, and
I investigated everything and actually this book is the account
of all the weird stuff, not just UFOs, but ghosts

(08:35):
and sasquatch and lake monsters and everything weird that was
happening in Manitoba at the time. Not as weird as
what's happening now regarding politics, but this was this was
sort of it was sort of really cool. And you know,
when I got into paranormal stuff, I did a lot
of investigations in audit locations all around Manitoba. But you know,

(08:59):
I went into the old Masonic Temple, which at that
time was Mother Tucker's when it was still open. And
you know, I remember talking with some of the employees
who were freaked out about some of the stuff that
they were seeing. They had seen ghostly figures moving up
and down the stairs and noises. It was a classic
story where somebody, one of the bus boys was working

(09:21):
late at night and he was in one of the
upper floors and he heard footsteps coming down a set
of wooden stairs that ended in the door who was
right in front of him, And he heard thump, thump,
thump coming down the stairs, and he heard the creaking
of the wood and the footsteps stopped at the bottom
of the stairs in front of the door. The doorknob

(09:42):
turned and then stopped, and he grabbed the doorknob opened it,
and of course there was no one there. So stuff
like that was happening. And when I investigated, I actually
found two coffins inside the building. Well, actually one was
on the roof of the building and he could only
see one of the windows inside the building, but there

(10:03):
was a small child's coffin that was inside the wall,
in a hole in the in the plaster wall that
you can only see from one of the rooms. So
there's there was some strange stuff like that that was happening,
and as far as the UFO stuff goes, I found
that there was a real, I don't know, an overlap

(10:27):
between a lot of the phenomenon. For example, there's a
and I mentioned this when I was on the radio yesterday,
there's a story out of Woodridge, Manitoba, just southeast of here,
where there's a spook light, and the story is you
can go out there most nights and see the spoop light,

(10:48):
and the story associated with it is that and if
you go to this particular road just east of the
town and towards going down the south towards the railroad
track towards a swamp, if you park your car and
look down towards the railroad track, you can see this
lade moving back and forth. And there's actually one known

(11:11):
photograph of the light that was taken and I think
nineteen seventy. But the idea behind this is that back
in the nineteen thirties, when you know that part of
Benetot was just a homestead and being opened up, there
was a fellow who got pretty drunk, and at that
time there were out a lot of roads. In fact,
the only way in and out was by rail and

(11:31):
he had followed the rail line to get from his
home to the bar in Woodridge, got too a little
tired and was a little woozy, so I thought he
would walk home. As he's walking along the rail line,
he got tired, a little too tired, so he thought,
you know, I'll just lay down right along the railroad track,

(11:52):
just you know, for to get his energy back. Put
his head on the rail, you know, because it was
just a little bit raised, and of course the train
came by. His story is that his ghosts continues to
walk up and down the railroad back holding a lantern,

(12:13):
looking for his head. Now is that now? Is that
a ghost light or is that a UFO?

Speaker 1 (12:23):
I have to add to that. I have personal experience
with that. All my whole family comes from Woodridge. Oh,
my uncles have seen it. My parents were chased by it.
My grandfather told me that story when I was very young.
And he even said, because in those nights, those days,
you don't have street lights, so everybody carried a lantern,
you know, to get to local pub and stuff or

(12:43):
the watering hole. And him and his friend were waiting
for their friend Jack, and they saw their friend Jack
coming and they're waiting at the spot.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Where they would meet up with him. Next thing, you know,
it wasn't Jack. It was just this glowing orb that
kind of floated past them.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
So yeah, so I know a lot I have written
down now that it just blows your mind, as Popyle.
And then the one time my dad Sorry I'm not
still in Chris's life, no really, but one time my dad.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Was hunting in the marsh early in the morning and
he saw it and he was watching it for like
an hour.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
It would glow, it would come, it would contract, it
would expand, and he was like, you know, like not
like say, about hundred two hundred yards from him, and
he was like very still because he was scared of
it first.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
But then he was a.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Fast standard, right, so he's like watching it just pulsate
and then he just finally crept away because yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
And then car batteries go dead and all that kind
of stuff too. Sorry anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Well, and there's a part of that story that I
have literally just found an angle to just over the
past few days, because one of the things that's really
hot in UFO Lord these days is finding government documents
documenting how the documenting how the government is covering up
and you know, they have all this stuff. So I've
been going through some documents and most people don't know

(13:56):
that Canada actually had its own project book or its
own UFO project back in nineteen sixty seven, sixty eighteen
sixty nine, based out of the University of Toronto called
the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies, and these
a yeads, I mean, you know, scientists where we're given

(14:16):
some permission to investigate some of the cases by the
that were collected by the Canadian Air Force and by
the RCMP, and during during the sixties late sixties, one
of the cases that they looked into was the Woodbridge Light.
They actually came out to Woodbridge and set up to

(14:37):
see if they could see the light. And I've only
just found the documentation that describes how one of the
cases was. So it's quite interesting that there is this connection.
And as far as the other phenomenon goes, In nineteen
seventy six, I remember going to any a farmer who

(14:59):
had said that that he had seen a UFO, you know,
the typical saucer disc you know, flying around, And I said,
anybody else seen anything around here? And he says, well,
you know, not not really unless you know the guy
in the the next quarter section he saw a sasquatch
just yesterday, and and uh and you know, and then

(15:25):
there's that, you know, there's this cemetery that's just in
the next mile over and there's spook lights being seen
over there that were just seen yesterday. So we have UFOs, sasquatch,
and and spook lights all in the same area within
a week. It's like, so there's there's that connection between
between anything. So I started investigating UFOs and I am

(15:47):
lots of stories that I've I've heard. I mean, I
don't know, there's so many different stories to talk about,
you know, in terms of paranormal investigations. I remember the
paranormal stuff. You know, people are really reticent to talk
about things sometimes that you're getting a little braver. But

(16:07):
back then, I remember talking about being directed to talk
to this one fellow in Haywood, out out west of Winnipeg.
And the story is this guy had some stories to tell,
and I went to talk to him and he was
outstanding outside his house in a field, not only like
within twenty feet of his house, and he's standing there

(16:30):
with some equipment in his hand, and I said, you know,
I've told that you have some stories to tell. Can
you tell me a little bit more about, you know,
what you've seen. He says, I really haven't had any
any strange stuff happening to me. It's all pretty normal.
He said, really, because the talent, some guy you know
in talent said I should talk to you. Oh no, no,

(16:50):
it's all pretty normal, nothing out of the ordinary. I'm
a pretty ordinary guy. Okay. So I said, okay, I'll
let you get back to it. He says, yeah, I'm
just dowsing for my well right over here, and he
pulled out his copper rods and he was dowsing for
as well. It's an ordinary thing. Everybody does that, So
that shows you that, you know, some of the ordinary

(17:12):
is becoming or the rather the extraordinary is becoming ordinary.
There's there's all so many stories that are out there
just a matter of going on. I really enjoyed going
out into the countryside talking with people and listening to
them tell their stories, because it's how we share our
our lives and it's a very very important part of

(17:32):
all that as human beings.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
And that's kind of like why we're doing nights like this, Chris,
I'm not sure if you're aware of what we've done before,
but it's you know, not only is an open mic
to let people discuss, but it's also like a safe
place so people had any doubt before or are they
you know, religion, family, all that kind of stuff places
into it where people aren't so forthcoming with their stories

(17:54):
because they they're afraid of being ridiculed or judged or
even poopooing, you know, like oh no, that didn't happen,
you know.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
So that's kind of like what we have this format
for for people. We've covered haunted houses. Last time it
was shot a man, you know, experiences and stuff. So
that's why we wanted to bring you out. Because the
UFO piece is just another part of the paranormal.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
And because I started in the you know and investigating everything,
I mean over the half little while, I've had to
specialize that I would be run off my feet, you know,
because yeah, but you know, I've been on sasquatch hunting expeditions.
I've been on Lake Lake, Manitoba and Winnipegosis where men

(18:41):
at Oogo has been seen. I actually spoke to a
master angler who swore up and down that he had
seen this thing with a head on a long neck,
you know, swimming right by him. And I said, it
wasn't the sturgeon. It wasn't the moves, it wasn't this,
it wasn't that. He's a master angler, he's been fishing
for you know, forty years as seen anything like that.
So what do you do with those stories? Because as

(19:02):
a scientist, and I do put on my scientific hat,
I have to say I don't believe everything that people
tell me. And I think that's fair. I mean, I
hope during the Anda, I'm gonna say it, during the
Trump era, you don't believe everything that you see on
the internet or hear from other people. So you know,

(19:26):
and I say, it's very good to have an open mind,
but not so open that your brains follow. And there's
a lot of gray matter on the sidewalk that you
have to step on all the time. But at the
same time, you know, the people are having experiences that
we simply can't necessarily dismiss. So it's important to use

(19:47):
scientific methodology and to use critical thinking to think about
experiences like you know, ghosts and hauntings and whether it's
Bigfoot or sasquatch and monsters in UFOs, it's important to
think of it. At what point in my research I
joined the Folklore Studies Association of Canada, which focuses on

(20:10):
the stories. Whether they're true or not, it doesn't really matter.
The point is that the stories are really what makes
us who we are. As a matter of fact, I
just got an invitation just a few days ago to
a cultural anthropology conference in Montreal next year to talk about,
you know, the human side of unusual phenomenon right well, and.

Speaker 5 (20:34):
Just I was doing research on you and your philosophy.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Don't always believe the believers, but also be skeptical of skeptics.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
Absolutely, yeah, And curiously, just today I uploaded a YouTube
video from nineteen eighty five, so almost forty years boy. Hold,
but it's called the Ghosts of Winnipeg. And if you

(21:10):
go on your phones right now and go to YouTube
and put in in quotes Ghosts of Winnipeg, it's a
television special that I worked on back in nineteen eighty
five about all sorts of strange phenomena in Winnipeg. Talked
with some psychics, talk with the people who have seen ghosts,
and the investigations that myself and a Lain and Roy

(21:32):
Bauer were doing back in the eighties, so that you know,
there's I mean, we've been at this quite a long time.
And you know, when I started, there were no other groups.
There was no one else doing this that I was
aware of. But as I researched, I found out that
there had been people. There was the Bartonian Metaphysical Society,
which was based in Winnipeg, but it was across Canada

(21:55):
and documenting people's experiences. So I ended up talking with
the leader of them.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
Uh I some people know about the Hamilton House, you
know the hell everybody Hamilton House. Well, some of the
Hamilton's were still alive with I was doing this and
I got to know Margaret.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
Margaret, Shit, they're gonna get it. But Margaret Hamilton Bock,
who was in her eighties when we met her. She
was the daughter of Thomas Clenning and Hamilton. She was
really nice and ended up god to know her quite
well and got invited to some of the the experiences saw.

(22:36):
The seances were some of the first to go through
the Hamilton documents at the University of Manitoba Archives. And
I don't know if you know that if you really
want to apply scientific knowledge and methodology. There's actually a
scholarship that you can get, the Thomas Cleinting and Hamilton

(22:58):
Scholarship for his search into parapsychology at the University of
manitobas one of the few at major post secondary institutions.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
So, yeah, very nice. You know what's up for sale again? Hey,
the Hamilton House.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, when they's talk the gags unlimited anymore, I.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Guess they don't want to be in the in the
I don't know. I can't speak for her. I mean,
we've met her a few times. She's a nice lady
and stuff. Cheryl sounds like they're closing all together everything.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Oh okay, so we're looking if anybody can. We got
a donation bucket up here. We just need seven hundred
and sixty five thousand dollars. Come on, winnter pickers, don'ty stingy,
now's your time.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
It's an investment.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Five piece of history before it becomes a parking lot.
That's my biggest fear.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Oh yeah, yeah, go fund.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Hello anyway, yes.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yeah, and a lot of that history, you know, the
mentioned the Hamilton knows, but certainly mother Tuckers is.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Also known for sale or was it for sale again?

Speaker 3 (23:58):
I think it's up for sale.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
We gave up.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
They don't know what to do with it. But there's
a lot of hanted locations that nobody seems to know
what to do with. And I think I told Kelly
this one time. We actually was called by a Toronto
real estate company that caters specifically to honted houses and
they wanted was in Winnipeg because they had a client
who wanted to buy a honted house. Nice And now

(24:20):
there's correct me. People out here would know. There's a
there's two TV shows about that, right about about real
estate companies that are are trying to find honted houses
for people.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Well, there's an FX channel, not FX. There's one called
Surreal Estate surreal Estates.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yeah, yeah, but that's a there's a that's fiction, but
there's one about there was a real one. Too cool.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
To go back a little bit with respects to your
career and UFOs and all that good stuff.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
So God, I lost that. Where did it go?

Speaker 3 (24:56):
I don't know?

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Shoot?

Speaker 3 (24:57):
Never? Okay, So about my career, I don't come. I'm
got fresh out of the cabbage batche and most kind
of like you know, thinks I am. But I got
my bachelor's in science and my master's degree in education,
and my interest is talking to people about cool stuff

(25:18):
in science and for many years I just retired a
little over a year ago. If you were just to
manage abe as a communications officer, and my job was
literally getting all the stories that are about the really
cool stuff that's going on my researchers and getting CDC
or the gold that I am a free Press or

(25:38):
hell Anderson to talk about them, right, And you know,
I think there's even without the UFOs and the paranormal stuff,
there's some really cool stuff that's going on out there.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
I now remember when I was just a light went on.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
So when we.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Spoke or I spoke with you back during pandemic, we
interviewed Chris the podcast been doing it five and a.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Half years when Pig's personally paranormal podcasts, we'll pitch there anyway.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
One of the interesting things that you had the project
you were working on back then, I think it was
twenty twenty two, twenty one, you actually were preparing your
catalog for the for storage at the Elizabeth Defol Library.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
Is that correct? Yes, Yes, that's where I was going
with that. Yeah, I actually you know, turning the process
of downsizing. You were trying to get rid of some
stuff around the house. Again, my wife was trying to
get rid of me, but I would We settled for
getting rid of all my books because I had like
two thousand books on UFOs and ghosts and all that

(26:39):
sort of stuff, plus all the magazine, plus all the
case files. And I had somewhere around tens of thousands
of separate case files on not just UFOs but hauntings
and sasquatch and lake monsters and whatever. And I donated.
I was actually asked by the university if I would
have donated all my collection to the out And so

(27:01):
all my files case files are at the Interesting Manitoba,
all my books, magazines and all answers and stuff. They
still haven't processed it, but there's a group push right
now on documenting and scanning in and all sorts of
cool stuff. In fact, there's a lot of paranormal journals

(27:22):
that are scanned in right now.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
I do have a list here of the books, just
to run down. You said how many were there that
you've published the farm.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
I think eleven.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
I got ten I'm missing one.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
I think there's some.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Does anybody got the right answer? O?

Speaker 3 (27:43):
Cattle them?

Speaker 1 (27:43):
So, okay, we've got the Canadian UFO Report. The best
case is revealed when they appeared Falcon late nineteen sixty seven.
The inside story of a CLOS encounter, which we want
to pick your brain about. We've got a World of
View of OS, which is two thousand and eight, The
Big Book of UFOs twenty ten.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Canada's UFOs.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
It classified abductions and aliens, What really goes on abductions
and aliens, The psychology.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Behind extraterrestial experience, The World of UFOs, Unnatural History, True
Management Mysteries, and I saw it too two thousand and nine.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
There was also one title Visitations.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Okay, I didn't see that one, all right.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
And Unnatural History is the one that we have here
right cool.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
So you know, as far as like the cases that
you've investigated and written on, could we pick your brain
about stan M call it?

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Absolutely? And just by the way, they're the next book
that I'm working on. I actually got a contract.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
I think you were retired.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
What's going on there? They're tired from all that work
stuff that was the fun stuff. I agree, but I'm
already working on I had an offer from a publisher
to work on another book, and it's not going to
be published until twenty twenty six, but I'm well into
the writing of that.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
So excellent that what's what's the title again that one?

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Do you well? The working title is Canada Confidential. I
like that.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Nice, sounds very cool.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
Confidential answer.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, if you told us, you'd have to kill us.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, okay, but yeah, if you want to maybe describe
a little bit more about the Falcon Lake situation that
people aren't familiar with the actually, how many people know
about the Falcon Lake incident?

Speaker 6 (29:29):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Very good, very good? Okay, okay, Oh I did look
up there. Sorry Falcon Lake.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Okay, well, but do you know all the stories the
Falcon Lady? So maybe the twenty of nineteen sixty seven, guy,
a fellow in by the name of Stanley Hullock went
out on the May Long weekend to do some amateur
rock hounding prospecting. He was actually an industrial mechanic and

(30:00):
he had an interested rocks and you know, there's some
interesting rocks in the in the white shell, there's some
quartz veins. Some of you might know that there's some
silver and gold deposits. The pset mine is up there.
But he went out and he went out on the
Friday night, stayed overnight. Next morning, six o'clock in the morning,

(30:22):
set out to see if we could find anything. Around lunchtime,
he was eating his lunch and he saw these two
bright objects and he said, were kind of like cigar
shaped objects in the sky. And one came further and
further down, resolved into classic Hollywood style of flying saucer

(30:43):
silver in color. Heard the land on a flat rock
out cropping out there. You know, if you know a
Falcon Lake area, you know kind of where this is
just north of Falcon Lake. And he's watching this thing
as it lands, and it's just sitting there and he's curious.
He's drawing it because he's wondering what it is. And

(31:06):
he says, it's not a plane, it's not a helicopter.
I've never seen anything like this. I wonder if it's
an American secret landing craft. Because this was just that
in May of sixty seven. And if you know your history,
early nineteen sixty seven was also when the Apollo program
was starting up and the tragedy of Apollo One, where

(31:28):
the astronauts died on the launch pad, was in the news,
but it was in the news that the NASA trying
to get to the Moon and they're going to land
on it. So he thought maybe this is the landing
vehicle that they're testing. Went off course ended up in Canada.
So he's watching this thing and he's convinced it's some
sort of mechanical flying machine from the States. And as

(31:52):
he's watching, this door opens in the side of it,
and out of this little door he could see bright
flashing lights and high squeaky voices and it was like
gibberish in America, like something like that, and he's thinking, well,
it must be an American secret weapon. Now they probably
you know, broke down. He's trying to fix it. So

(32:14):
he stands up, walks toward it, because this was like
about one hundred feet away from him, walks toward it,
and he shouts out, okay, Yankee boys, come on out,
I'll give you a hand fixing your broken down flying machine.
And the voices stopped and he says, not American, Russian. Well,

(32:38):
now he had he was from Eastern Europe and happened
to know Russian so he calls out in Russian, same thing. Hey,
I'll give you a hand fixing your machine. Hello. Nothing,
And he happened to be multi label. He was in
the war and he was working for the resistance. So
he called out an Italian, and he called out in French. Nothing.

(33:01):
But by this time he had walked right up to
the side of this thing, and he had a rubber
glove on his hand because he was protecting his hand
from rock chips. And he put his rubber glove on
the hand on the side of this thing and poked
his hand and there's all these bright lights. All of
a sudden, he noticed his hand was hot, and he
pulled it away, and the rubber glove had melted because

(33:24):
this thing was so hot. So he stood back, and
all of a sudden, this door shuts, the whole thing rotates,
and there's sort of an exhaust vent right in front
of him, and out of this exhaust vent comes a
blast of hot gas, sets his shirt on fire, sets
the pine needles and leaves on fire, and the thing
takes off. Well. Long story short, He eventually gets back

(33:49):
to Winnipeg, where he's examined by emergency doctors at the
bizer Cordio Hospital, which was a hospital back then, and
he has a first and second degree burns, burns on
the lower part of his body that seemed to be
chemical and thermal in nature, not radiation like some people say,
but some sort of chemical burn and he's lost weight

(34:13):
and all of a sudden there's a knock at the
door because they released him and he went home, and
it's the Canadian Air Force and the RCNP that want
to talk to him, and they talk to him and
his family, They talk to everybody from his work. They
check out his background, they check out his military background.
It's investigated. They go out to the site a Falcon

(34:36):
Lake and they find a patch of stuff where the
pine needles were burned, and it's radioactive. And in fact,
it's so radioactive that this is already into June that
they were considering the government of Manitoba is considering closing
all of the White Shell because of a threat of

(34:57):
radioactivity to the public. Can you imagine in the summer
closing down the provincial park because of radiation. They eventually
thought better of it. That would look wouldn't look good.
But you know, the story is amazing. It's well documented.
We have the medical records from the hospital, we have

(35:20):
the RCMP documents, we have the RCAF documents. Stan Mayhallick, sorry,
Steve Mahallick himself was available to talk. I knew them
quite well. And it remains one of the best cases
on record, in fact, better than that silly roswell thing
down in the States, you know, because we know where

(35:40):
it happened, and there was somebody who saw something. But
it's one of the classics, and it's one of the
best cases in you know, anywhere around the world. Happened
here in Manitoba and has just one of the cases
that I talk about in my books.

Speaker 6 (35:56):
Awesome today, which is very unusual by the way.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
We're behaving. I'm listening, I do, but I don't know
if I should say it.

Speaker 7 (36:24):
Well, okay, it's the whole like it was such a
well documented case.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Well, and you've always told me that, and I tell
everybody that. But I am from the US, and it always.

Speaker 7 (36:40):
Always irritated me that they don't a lot of people
down there don't They still don't know about this case
at all.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
They don't talk.

Speaker 7 (36:48):
About it, they don't want to talk about it on
any of the UFO shows.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Because you know, we're friends with people down south.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
And do you do you know why or is it
what we want to regionalism? However, you know, I will
point out just last week on News Nation, which is
the you know, the new new places to get your
news in the States, the fellow who just came out
with a book called Imminence, he's probably one of the

(37:16):
whistle lawyers, and came out to talk about what the
American government is doing. He was being interviewed on News
Nation talking about injuries to people who have seen UFOs,
and they flashed a photo of Stanhollock on the screen
without talking about it for a second or two, and
there are no context, just here's here's an image and

(37:37):
it's gone again. So yes, yeah, so there's it's almost
like they're hesitant to talk about But I think the
thing is they don't know enough about it. I mean,
Canada is still that big pink area on the map above.

Speaker 7 (37:51):
It's very strange, like we've actually gone down to this
paranormal conference quite a few times in Michigan and they
I forget what the.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Subject was that they show all these pictures.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
From the Hamilton House, all those cases, and they don't
talk about where it's from, right, but.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Like that's hey, give us credit.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
And there's a paranormal conference in Shooting Is it shooting
Star No this, Yeah, I don't know if it's. And
that's where there's all Stanton Freeman used to the UFO
guy used to speak there. I spoke there, and there's
paranormal speakers there too.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
It's just frustrating.

Speaker 7 (38:35):
It's like as if Canada doesn't exist.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
That imaginary they keep taking imaginary line. Nothing happened.

Speaker 7 (38:43):
Like I said, I'm from the States, went down there
quite a bit, and well it's yours.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
It's your responsibility to get the Americans to know.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
About Okay, I have a great question on it.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
We can include playing that now.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
Yeah, and there's people from Canora.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
From he was born from car.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
But where from Tennessee? Okay, so you're a lot away
from home.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Originally, speaking of that corner falcon, I always found it
really weird, and I don't I guess I'm a nerd.
But if you ever look geographically speaking, and I can't
use my big words to say, you know, when you
look on a map and you see Highway number one,

(39:39):
you see all the little towns and all that have
you ever noticed that that one corner southeast right that
there's nothing like what's going on there?

Speaker 3 (39:48):
I feel not.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Trying to start a conspiracy, but I kind of feel
like there's something.

Speaker 8 (39:53):
Going on in that corner of Manitoba. It's not developed,
there's no maps, there's no roads on a map, which
is kind of weird. You need to get on that,
you know, and it's f lake right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
So you mean south the Falcon Lake towards Buffalo Buffalo.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, like kind of you know, going in that like
it's it's really weird to me. It's almost like maybe
the government's fighting something.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
Well, water comes from there, so I have no problem
with that area.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah. Anyway, that was just a personal thought, That's that's all.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
It was so funny. So any any other is surely
open to ask people.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Anybody have any questions for Chris.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Hold Up completely. Yes, yes, it is anything that that
lake spot since it likes did you believe that, well,
that's interesting. The question is that anything happened out at
that Falcon Lake spot ever since? I have somewhere around
twenty five hundred UFO reports from Manitoba all across the province,

(40:54):
and that area does have some from time to time.
As a matter of fact, there's a government report called
the Robertson Briefing where they listed the top there was.
Out of all the cases throughout Canada, there is six
that the government couldn't explain and three of them three
of them are four of them three or four of
them came from that part of Manitoba. For all of Canada.

(41:16):
There was a radar base out at Milner Ridge for
some of you know Milner Ridges, And at that radar base,
some UFOs were detected on radar and they checked the
equipment and if it wasn't malfunctioning and all this sort
of stuff. Something was seen there there was and then
Shoal Lake, a family was on the lake and this

(41:39):
UFO threw over the lake and buzzed their boat and
the boat holders stopped and all that sort of stuff.
So there had been things out there. But you know,
you can go out to Falcon Lake right now. As
a matter of fact, this weekend would be perfect for
that because you can go on a guided horseback ride
to the actual site where the UFO landed. And it's

(42:04):
and that's the other interesting thing. You know, people are saying, well,
this guy probably hoaxed it and he just wants to
get publicity and all that sort of stuff. It is
an isolated area. In fact, it takes forty five minutes
one way on horseback to get to where this place is.
There's no roads. It's swampy and rocky, but forty five

(42:26):
minutes each way to get to this place. It's a
wonderful horseback ride. Actually, the horses actually climb a ridge
and if you've never been on a horse when it's climbing,
it's quite a thrill. But you know, there's and they've
had they're trying to create at their old roswell and
you can get souvenirs, and they're trying to get a

(42:47):
UFO festival going and things like that. Interesting and actually
I will give you an inside scoop. I was approached
by the Province of Manitoba. They want to name a
lake after after upon them all.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Nice, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
I have a question about you about about abduction abduction.

Speaker 7 (43:14):
Okay, have you ever investigated any that seemed even close
to having some real evidence?

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yeah, you know, in the eighties and into the nineties
when everybody was talking about UFO abductions, you know it
was very common for me to get calls from people,
and when I would give lectures, people would come up
and very hesitantly want to talk to me about their experiences.

(43:50):
And so I did have people and other people come
to me with some abduction cases. One that I remember
very clearly was when a nurse contacted me and she said,
you know, I don't have a you know, have a

(44:10):
series of vivid dreams. I work a lot. I haven't
seen science fiction movies. At that time, she had never
seen Star Wars and wasn't into Star Trek or any
of this stuff. She says, you know, she comes home
from her shift. She was often working double shifts. She
had come home at like two or three in the morning,
have enough time to grab a few you know, hours
of sleep and then get back to the hospital. And

(44:33):
she said she came home. She was in a townhouse
that was connected to a number of others, and she
came home and walked from her front door, through her
living room into her bedroom, and all of a sudden,
she heard a big thump and she thought, oh no,
it's like this. The university students next door are going
to have another party. And this is like two in

(44:55):
the morning. So she gets out of her bedroom and
in her living room there's these two creatures and they're white,
all white, with round heads, big round eyes and kind
of like long kaftans or long sheets. Couldn't see any
ladies or anything, and their hands actually ended in what

(45:18):
she said, were almost like white nippens. And her first reaction,
because she was so overtired and so annoyed, was get
out of my living room. And these two creatures looked
at her, and then they looked at each other, and
then they looked back at her, and they said, would

(45:39):
you like to come for a ride in our station?
Which is a line I used on my wife a
couple of times, but that's another story. But she just
sort of was exasperated and flabbergasted, and she said, well, sure,
I guess. And next thing she knows, she's in some

(46:03):
big hangar, like a big warehouse, and there's flying saucers,
and there's one of these creatures ahead of her and
one behind her, and they're leading her, guiding her into
kind of a gang plank that was up the side
of this one particular shep and they walk up and
then they go down the middle aisle and they sit

(46:24):
her down in this you know area kind of like
star treking stuff where you're going to panel with lots
of lights and pears, and there's a view screen with
the picture of the Earth on it and she's sitting
between them and she doesn't know what to think, and
all of a sudden, they do something and the image
of the Earth shrinks down as if she's you know,
they're going further and further away. The next thing she knows,

(46:48):
she's sitting on her bed on the other side from
the door, with all her clothes on, feet on the floor.
Bed has not been slept in, and it's three hours later,
and she's she was absolutely puzzled. So she says, I,
I don't know what what happened. I don't know what
to do with this story. And I said, well, you

(47:11):
want me to go to the Winnipeg Sun. You want
me to like what do you want me to do that?
She said, oh, you know, I heard you were the
guy who was interested in this sort of stuff. So
there's my story. And she insisted she had never she
hadn't had an anchovy pizza that night, she didn't have
vivid dreams. You know, she was never into anything, and

(47:32):
she said, I'd never had an experience like that before
or since. And what do you do with those stories?

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Maybe confidence is key just didn't get out of my
house and they're like, we like her, that's right. Interesting.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
Yes, there's a question the way back there.

Speaker 9 (47:53):
So very placially go o tober and the government there
has an agency that when you see so many of
'em that instead of like trying like the side.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
They.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Ask people to fo and tell them what they see.
And if you go there and you.

Speaker 9 (48:19):
Say to someone go and you see people, oh, they
say no, they have a cousin, brother or sister or
somebody cows.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
So have you heard about that?

Speaker 7 (48:29):
And I think you should organize the trip to Tokay?

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, I think, Uh, well, I I haven't heard that
specific story about Chili being a hotbed for UFOs. And
sometimes I've had hot Chili's which have you know, really
made me see things? But I do know that the
Chilean government released a bunch of documents a number of

(48:58):
years ago about to their investigations. And there's a place
called Atacama in Chile where supposedly an alien mummified body
was found and is still being debated whether it's real
or not, so I haven't heard that, but I'm all
for going to Chile. Yeah, especially in the winter, you know,

(49:21):
go to the northern part of Chile, southern part of Chile,
the northern part of