January 11, 2023 • 29 mins
Borders, oceans, and lesser-known cities — these are some of the places in-between point A and point B, places which aren’t often thought of as the highlights of a journey, yet can so easily define it. Join host Saskia as she reflects back on the last 35 episodes of the Globetrotters podcast, and the lessons learned from various guests and their adventures chronicled on the show.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Hi there, Welcome back to anotherepisode of the Globetrotters podcast. This is
your host Saskia hat Vunny, andtoday it's just me. My two co
hosts, John and Max will besitting this one out for various reasons,
(00:30):
work, holidays, and we justcouldn't find a time where our schedules overlapped
these last few weeks. More onthat later, but I'm going to kick
this one off by admitting that I'vebeen feeling a little reflective lately. I
think the holidays bring this feeling onfor a lot of us, as we'vesit
(00:51):
friends, family, reconnect with ourroots, spend some time alone, slow
down. So as the new yearapproached, I couldn't help but reflect back
on this podcast, what I've personallylearned through this project, and where I
want to go next, what Iwant to change and improve. So with
that in mind, I thought thiswould be an opportunity to do something a
(01:11):
little differently and have a bit offun. So in the spirit of new
beginnings and reflections, We're going toembark on a little journey through some of
our past moments on this podcast andwhat we can learn from them. Because
sometimes it's not about the journey itself. It's about how we feel when we
(01:32):
look back on it, what we'velearned about the world and ourselves, and
how it shapes our lives moving forward. So let's get the show on the
road, and of course, here'sto our first adventure of the year.
(02:00):
I'm going to kick this episode offwith a story about adventure with a conscience.
Anya Doherdi grew up between nationalities,her mom's American from California and her
dad's British from London, United Kingdom. She grew up in London, and
her family would often travel back toCalifornia, sometimes yearly, to visit family,
(02:23):
friends and reconnect. Anya eventually grewup, and like many young adults,
she became increasingly concerned with climate change, and suddenly her annual summer trip
to visit family in California was viewedwith a tinge of hesitation. She had
become involved in environmental activism and solutions, yet here she was about to fly
(02:47):
across the world in a metal tube, which, if you didn't know,
is the most polluting means of transportation. So through a lot of research,
she found out that she could renta cabin in a cargo ship, so
that's what she did. You mightbe thinking, but wait, cargo ships
are incredibly polluting, and you wouldbe right. But the point is cargo
(03:13):
ships are making that journey with orwithout you in order to transport cargo.
And that's different from a plane,of which the purpose is to transport people.
By being on a plane, you'reincreasing demand for plane trips. By
being on a cargo ship, youare not increasing the demand for cargo ship
trips. So Anya embarked on thisjourney all the way from London to California.
(03:39):
She would be taking trains, buses, but the main event would be
at ten days at sea aboard abehemoth of a ship. There were so
many interesting things about this journey.For example, the fact that Anya was
initially terrified as she feared she wouldbe the only woman on the ship without
(04:01):
reception and internet for ten days.Or the Filipino crew members whom she got
to know dearly and who surprised herwith a cake on the day of her
birthday in the middle of the AtlanticOcean, and the swimming pool that they
would fill up with water from theocean and which slowly changed temperatures throughout the
passage, or even better, spottingland for the first time after ten days
(04:27):
at sea. But to me,one of the most interesting things Anya said
was what she learned about slowing downand those places in between that so many
of us seldom go out of ourway to experience, even though there might
be so much to experience. I'mtalking about what's often referred to as flyover
(04:47):
country, for example, the AmericanMidwest, large areas that aren't usually considered
as destinations. One of the examplesAnya gave was the German port city where
she boarded the ship, Ramahaven,an industrial town in North Germany, not
the kind of place you would seeon an influencer's feed. Anya had never
(05:12):
heard of it, but after spendinga few days there, she was actually
able to find some of her familymembers emigration records, something that she said
she would have never known or donehad she not happened to be there.
Here's a little clip of Anya speakingon the realization that she had during those
long days at sea and staring outthe window of a Greyhound bush. You
(05:49):
know the places in between that peoplekind of say, oh, you know,
you're never gonna there's no point ingoing back. I mean, that's
kind of the whole reason why youfly to Marsa. You can get over
stuff in between you deem irrelevant basically, and those places I loved because they
were often so surprising. So onmy way back, actually, I took
the Greyhound across the New Mexico andTexas and I was warned by everyone.
(06:14):
They were like, oh, that'sgonna be the most boring part of the
journey, like there is nothing tosee, And actually that was, yeah,
probably one of my favorite, thefavorite parts of my whole journey.
It was so beautiful, and Igot to see all these sunrises and sunsets
over the mountains there, and thecolors kind of in the desert. There's
something kind of, I don't know, a bit presumptuous about just saying,
(06:34):
Oh, the place that I'm gonnago is actually better than everywhere else in
between. Anya's reflections made me wonderwhat influences our perception of what makes a
(06:56):
worthy destination. I found myself lookingat lists of the top ten most visited
tourist destinations in the world and themost traveled countries and cities, and the
one thing that did stand out wasthat a majority of these places were usually
in Western, wealthy countries. Therecould be a lot of reasons for that,
of course, such as proximity toother wealthy nations where people are more
(07:17):
likely to travel. But what arethe ethics of deeming any place better than
another. It's like saying chocolate icecream is better than vanilla, because it's
really a matter of personal preference.What do you want out of this journey?
How do you want it to serveyou? Those are the important questions
in my opinion. And if thereare places that are the best to visit,
(07:40):
then that must mean that there areplaces that are the worst to visit.
And how true can that really be? More often than not, the
people that you meet, the unexpectedsurprises, the feelings you get when you're
traveling, those are the things thatstick with you the most and often overshadow
the destinations speak And I actually thinkthat's encouraging because it speaks to the fact
(08:05):
that you really don't have to flyto the other side of the world to
experience travel and adventure. It couldjust be a train or a bus ride
away. And maybe sometimes that trainor bus ride is the destination. And
no, you don't need a car. Some of my favorite riders use Greyhound
buses and taxi rides as the stagefor their writing inspiration. I'm actually currently
(08:28):
reading Glorious Steinem's memoir it's called MyLife on the Road. Gloria spent many
years traveling across the United States inbuses, taxis, and planes, and
she doesn't need a car because,in her words, adventure starts the moment
I leave my door. And speakingof places that lie in between, have
(09:00):
you ever come across a place ora name of a place that you simply
know nothing about, or that you'dnever even considered visiting. Will Laverne,
one of our very first guests onthe podcast, traveled to a lot of
those places after he drunkenly decided witha few university friends that they would drive
thousands of miles from Europe to Mongoliathrough the Middle East in what is widely
(09:22):
known as the Mongol Rally. TheMongol Rally is a wild and unpredictable adventure
of which the journey is entirely upto you, save for the one condition
that you must use a really small, old, and for lack of a
better word, crappy car to getthere. Will had countless stories about these
(09:43):
countries of which he had zero expectationsand that surprised him in more ways than
one. Slovenia, where they cameacross Lake bled, which Will described as
the most beautiful lake he had everseen. Or the city of Ashgabat in
Turkmenistan, which he described as beingmade of marble and gold. And then
(10:07):
there was the time that their car'saxle broke on one of the most remote
roads in the world, the PamirMountains into Jikistan, and a nearby village
welder welded their car together and refusedto take any money for it. But
how about those countries that you wouldnever dare visiting because it was considered unsafe
(10:28):
or too dangerous. Will and hisfriends went to some of those two and
he had some really interesting things tosay about his experiences there. Here's a
clip from our interview with him ashe reflects back on some of his expectations
and how they changed throughout his trip. I'll be right back with you before
(11:03):
you're going. That's the first thingeveryone said when I say I'm going to
Iran or Turkey or any of theseplaces. It was you know, be
careful, it's gonna be dangerous.And we went in with the mindset that
it probably is, but we wantedto go and see it anyway, and
we came out the other side thinkingwhat a load of rubbish, to be
honest. And there, obviously thereare dangerous parts, and especially in Iran.
(11:26):
The south of Iran, I know, is a lot worse than the
north where we were, but themajority of it was unbelievably safe. We
never felt in danger at all.The people in Iran, especially because they
don't see Westerners, were just sofriendly and so nice, like they we
were such a big deal going intotheir country. We can't when you're in
(11:48):
from like the western world in theUK and the US, when you go
into Iran you have to have atour guide. So for five days we
had to pay for a tour guideto take us in a big convoy through
the country. But we were sucha big deal being there in this tour
group. They were you know,we were on what we called BBC Iran
News and there is every single caron the motorway that was coming past,
(12:13):
they're like leaning out the window,waving, trying to take photos with us,
asking us to go over for dinner. And everywhere we stopped, people
wanted to stay high and just we'reso friendly. There was no negativity towards
us whatsoever. And so yeah,in that sense, I could say that,
you know, we never saw anydanger from Iran. There were much
(12:33):
more world called dodgier places like inCroatia or Montenegro, which are parts of
Europe where we thought we felt maybemore unsafe, but still not. Stupidly
so, people have a really badperception of these countries and think that everyone
is the cause of the problem,and it's not. It's just a minority
in the same sense that it isanywhere. The minority in the UK,
(12:56):
the minority in the US, whoevershouts loud enough seems to be heard.
And the media don't want to showwhere the population are like, they like
to share what the one percent are. What Will talks about really speaks to
(13:24):
that prejudice part of how we makedecisions about where we travel and why,
how our worldview shapes our experiences anddecisions. And if you're like Will or
I, you're fortunate to even considerthe safety of a country as one of
the main reasons you might not beable to go to a place. And
what I've learned this year is thatthat alone is a luxury that many,
(13:48):
if not most, people in thisworld don't have. If I ever met
someone who fits the definition of intrepidbrave, it would be Kristen khaled Karan,
(14:09):
And she happens to be an expertin the places in between, and
sometimes those places are not friendly ones. Kristen has an incredible story, and
I'll summarize it here to the bestof my abilities, but you can go
back to that episode and listen toher full interview. Kristen is from the
Philippines. She was headed to lawschool after taking a gap year to travel
(14:31):
to Cambodia. But when she arrivedthere, she knew almost right away that
she wouldn't be going home anytime soon. So she did something really unexpected.
Took an open flame and burned herreturn flight ticket home. That was over
five years ago, and she stillhasn't returned home since. Instead, she
(14:54):
hitchhiked and hiked her way from Cambodiaall the way to Ukraine, crossing mountains
on foot with nothing but a backpack, and she even hitchhiked a boat to
Indonesia once. I'll let you picturethat one. There are a few things
that are insane about this plan forexample, most people might go home first,
prepare, save money, and thenleave. Then there's the fact that
(15:18):
she's a young woman alone who ishitchhiking and sometimes hiking by herself. Never
mind the fact that she underwent aserious surgery abroad and still refuses to return
home, or that she now currentlylives in Ukraine where there's active war.
You could list countless incredible things aboutthis journey, But what I came to
find out was the most amazing partof this was that she was doing all
(15:41):
of this on a Filipino passport.You see, passports aren't all created equal,
and as it turns out, Kristen'spassport would be the single greatest challenge
throughout her trip. When she arrivedin Ukraine after five years of travel,
where the plan was to apply toenter the Shangen Zone otherwise known as the
European Union, she was denied multipletimes, and according to her, the
(16:06):
denials were in response to a fearthat she would remain in the country illegally,
in other words, that she wouldbecome an illegal immigrant. If you
hold a passport from a developed orwealthy country, chances are you can enter
Europe without even having to fill outa form. All you need to do
is book the ticket and your visais automatic. And that's just not the
(16:30):
same for someone like Kristen. Andthis is a profound realization for me,
who's been traveling my whole life withtwo very privileged passports. I'm even lucky
to have two and not just one. And so I wanted to share some
of her reflections on what it's beenlike for her to travel this way and
(16:56):
why she does it, because it'snot an easy thing to do. My
family they didn't support me at first. They were asking me to come home
(17:19):
all the time. And I understand, like traditionally, the Philippines isn't a
nation of travelers. When we travel, we are immigrants. We work abroad,
We travel to feed our families.You know, We're not the same
type of backpackers you know that gohitch hiking or camping or go abroad for
(17:41):
a long period of time just forleisure. And it's extra challenging for me
because I have to obtain visas toalmost every country that I cross. I
don't just show up at the borders, show my passport and like you know,
hi, I'm here. Can Icross no every land border? I
(18:02):
get questioned about my purpose of travelas a single, solo female traveler from
a developing country. And I'm emphasizingon single because it's not just for work,
but people go to different countries,you know. But it was a
dream and I think that if youreally have a dream, you just go
for it. I think that myhome is the road. I think that
(18:23):
I've belong here. I've never beenhappier elsewhere. And I told you guys,
I've never fought for anything so muchas this tree. And by being
here, you know, taking upspace, as you know, a minority
adventure, I am doing my partin order to make this sphere travel sphere,
(18:45):
more accessible to people, more inclusiveto people. And I think the
only way to go is further becausethere's so much things to see. I
haven't seen it all, and youknow, I just hope I survived this
work. If you didn't catch thatlast part, Kristen said, she hopes
(19:11):
she survives this war. That's becauseshe's currently living in Ukraine, where there's
an active war with Russia. Shedecided to stay there because when she was
applying for her Shangen visa to enterEurope and then COVID hit she settled in
Ukraine, where she found a community, friends and a job, and then
(19:33):
her visa got denied again and again, so when war broke out, she
couldn't bear to leave her newfound community. But her story begs the question why
do people from white, wealthy countriesget to be expats while people from black
and brown developing countries are immigrants?And to really hone in on this point,
(19:56):
I'm going to read the Dictionary definitionsof immigrants and expat An immigrant is
quote a person who comes to livepermanently in a foreign country end quote,
and an expatriate is quote a personwho lives outside of their native country end
quote. These definitions are almost identical, but they fail to highlight the very
(20:19):
different social connotations that go with each. Why is that. I'll leave that
question with you. I think we'veestablished that travel is a different experience for
(20:40):
everyone, quite literally, and Kristenis a real testament to that. But
it can also have different meaning.Some of us want to feel better about
our choices, like Anya. Somewant to challenge themselves to do something out
of the ordinary, like Will.Others like Kristen, simply do it because
they need to deepen their bones,like breathing air and drinking water. But
(21:02):
there are many reasons, and oneof them can be to connect with a
part of your past or ancestry thatyou have been disconnected from. This is
the case for Chido, an AfricanAmerican man from Louisiana. If you weren't
familiar with American history in the UnitedStates, hundreds of years of slavery meant
(21:26):
that hundreds of thousands of Africans weretorn from their home countries and enslaved on
the other side of the world.They helped build America as we know it,
and as a result, African Americanswho are their descendants today can have
little to know knowledge about their ancestry, to the point of not knowing what
(21:48):
country their ancestors came from. Chidois one of those people. So when
he got the chance to travel toAfrica, he jumped at it. He
had never been outside of the countrybefore. His experience was really touching,
and I wanted to share with youthis moment that really struck me from his
(22:11):
trip, and I'll be back withyou in a minute. After we got
out of France, because you know, like when you're on the plane,
you could like check the little likeflight path and when you're about to cross
over into Africa and everything, soliterally, like everybody we were just like
counting it down, like oh mygod, like we're flying over, We're
(22:33):
in the continent, like we werejust Yo. It was just amazing,
you know, like tears of happiness, you know. And when we landed,
it was absolutely surreal to hop offthe plane and the first thing I
see is like the string of adsand it's just all black people. And
then we get down into the terminalbefore we leave and like check out and
it's just like see of black people. I'm just like, Yo, this
(22:57):
is amazing. Although they were likeall speaking French, I feel like I'm
partly a visitor because I'm still American, you know, like and and there's
like a disconnected communication because I don'tI also don't speak French. I've only
ever seen myself through the lens ofa Eurocentric person, you know what I'm
(23:17):
saying, like through the American lens, you know, or being in America
and only seeing Africa through the Eurocentriclens. So it's like to be able
to see that for myself and youknow, put my hands in the dirt,
you know, like talk to thesepeople, like get get recognized,
and like the first day or twothat I was out there, you know,
me not speaking, people would assumethat I was Ivorian. Like they
(23:41):
would just treat me as such,you know, until I started talking,
and then and then they would belike, oh, like oh stop,
like you're American, you know.So like even like slight incidents like that
like were like more rewarding than anythingelse because it just it just let me
know that I was that much closerto realizing my identity and like being like,
(24:04):
yo, this is who I amoutside of what I was told to
be. Throughout that episode, Schidodescribed his experience as an emotional roller coaster
and not always positive. In hisinterview, he talked at length about some
of the more difficult parts of thetrip, like seeing firsthand how the Ivory
(24:26):
Coast economy continues to get exploited bywealthy Western nations, often to the detriment
of locals. One of the fulfillingexperiences he described was when he was able
to visit an indigenous tribe for afew days, and one of the tribe's
elders identified some of Schido's physical traitsas resembling that of a specific Ivorian tribe
(24:51):
in the region. Schido said thatthat experience was intensely gratifying and that from
now on he's quote an honorary Orianuntil further notice. I realize that oftentimes
we talk about travel as a meansto take us out of our comfort zones,
(25:11):
and from a Western developed perspective,this often means sleeping without a mattress
or living without running water for awhile. Sometimes it means experiencing a culture
with a totally different language to you. But if Schido's experience has taught us
anything, it's that sometimes travel isa means of seeking comfort and a missing
(25:33):
peace. Sometimes travel is coming homeor discovering what home is, or better
yet, discovering who we are.I'm going to leave you with that thought,
but before you go, I wantto say a few words about what
this journey has been like for us. John, Max and I we really
don't often talk about how we produceour podcast or what goes on behind the
(25:57):
scenes, but I can tell youthat in the last two years since John
approached Max and I with the ideafor a travel podcast project, we've gone
through a lot. Not only werewe starting a podcast without any experience in
podcasting, but we all live indifferent cities, and I would be lying
(26:18):
if I said that this didn't takea toll on us at On top of
that, schedule conflicts and the normaltrappings of creating a work culture from scratch
and with zero financial motivation at leastfor now, not to mention audio issues
that have plagued us from the verybeginning. In fact, true story,
just a couple of weeks ago,I sat down to edit an episode only
(26:41):
to find out that I had mymic backwards during the whole interview. I
was pretty upset at myself for that, but you move on and move forward
and just keep going anyway. Idon't mean for you to feel sorry for
us. That's not at all thegoal of this message. But in this
(27:02):
reflective time, I felt the needto talk to you the listener and sincerely
share what may not always be obvious, and also to thank you for being
here, really, because despite allof this, we've watched our numbers steadily
grow, frankly to my surprise,and I want to be clear that we're
(27:25):
really not swimming in listeners here,but we now consistently get several hundred listeners
per month. Close to a thousandat times, and it frankly astonishes me.
I think for a long time Isubconsciously dismissed this as friends and family
from our extended circles listening to us. But seven hundred people can't just be
(27:48):
our friends and family. Like myaunt Joanne, for example, who's about
eighty seven years old and listens tous on her Alexa every week and gives
me great constructive feedback. Thanks AuntJoanne, my dad who listens to every
single episode, and my mom andJohn's partner, and all of those people
(28:10):
who have supported us, Thank you. But seven hundred plus people can't just
be our friends and family. AndI wonder a lot who are these people
who are tuning in listening to myvoice and our voice and yeah, and
we really don't know, because thetruth is, we've had very little mail
(28:32):
from listeners since we released our firstepisode. So if you're listening it to
us right now, do me onefavor and reach out to us on Instagram,
via email, through our website,on Facebook, anywhere. We really
really would love to hear from you, even if it's just hey, my
name is Blah blah and I've listenedto X amount of episodes. I think
(28:53):
I speak for all of us whenI say we really love to know who
you are. You can find usonline on all the platforms Facebook, globetrotters
Podcast, Instagram at globetrotters podcast,Twitter, globetrot Pod, and our website
www. Dot gts podcast dot com. Editing on this episode was done by
(29:14):
myself. I really hope you likedit. This was something different. I
had a lot of fun and gotreally creative. So let us know if
you did, and who knows,that may influence the future of this podcast.
All right, thanks for listening.Bye.
Hi there, Welcome back to anotherepisode of the Globetrotters podcast. This is
your host Saskia hat Vunny, andtoday it's just me. My two co
hosts, John and Max will besitting this one out for various reasons,
(00:30):
work, holidays, and we justcouldn't find a time where our schedules overlapped
these last few weeks. More onthat later, but I'm going to kick
this one off by admitting that I'vebeen feeling a little reflective lately. I
think the holidays bring this feeling onfor a lot of us, as we'vesit
(00:51):
friends, family, reconnect with ourroots, spend some time alone, slow
down. So as the new yearapproached, I couldn't help but reflect back
on this podcast, what I've personallylearned through this project, and where I
want to go next, what Iwant to change and improve. So with
that in mind, I thought thiswould be an opportunity to do something a
(01:11):
little differently and have a bit offun. So in the spirit of new
beginnings and reflections, We're going toembark on a little journey through some of
our past moments on this podcast andwhat we can learn from them. Because
sometimes it's not about the journey itself. It's about how we feel when we
(01:32):
look back on it, what we'velearned about the world and ourselves, and
how it shapes our lives moving forward. So let's get the show on the
road, and of course, here'sto our first adventure of the year.
(02:00):
I'm going to kick this episode offwith a story about adventure with a conscience.
Anya Doherdi grew up between nationalities,her mom's American from California and her
dad's British from London, United Kingdom. She grew up in London, and
her family would often travel back toCalifornia, sometimes yearly, to visit family,
(02:23):
friends and reconnect. Anya eventually grewup, and like many young adults,
she became increasingly concerned with climate change, and suddenly her annual summer trip
to visit family in California was viewedwith a tinge of hesitation. She had
become involved in environmental activism and solutions, yet here she was about to fly
(02:47):
across the world in a metal tube, which, if you didn't know,
is the most polluting means of transportation. So through a lot of research,
she found out that she could renta cabin in a cargo ship, so
that's what she did. You mightbe thinking, but wait, cargo ships
are incredibly polluting, and you wouldbe right. But the point is cargo
(03:13):
ships are making that journey with orwithout you in order to transport cargo.
And that's different from a plane,of which the purpose is to transport people.
By being on a plane, you'reincreasing demand for plane trips. By
being on a cargo ship, youare not increasing the demand for cargo ship
trips. So Anya embarked on thisjourney all the way from London to California.
(03:39):
She would be taking trains, buses, but the main event would be
at ten days at sea aboard abehemoth of a ship. There were so
many interesting things about this journey.For example, the fact that Anya was
initially terrified as she feared she wouldbe the only woman on the ship without
(04:01):
reception and internet for ten days.Or the Filipino crew members whom she got
to know dearly and who surprised herwith a cake on the day of her
birthday in the middle of the AtlanticOcean, and the swimming pool that they
would fill up with water from theocean and which slowly changed temperatures throughout the
passage, or even better, spottingland for the first time after ten days
(04:27):
at sea. But to me,one of the most interesting things Anya said
was what she learned about slowing downand those places in between that so many
of us seldom go out of ourway to experience, even though there might
be so much to experience. I'mtalking about what's often referred to as flyover
(04:47):
country, for example, the AmericanMidwest, large areas that aren't usually considered
as destinations. One of the examplesAnya gave was the German port city where
she boarded the ship, Ramahaven,an industrial town in North Germany, not
the kind of place you would seeon an influencer's feed. Anya had never
(05:12):
heard of it, but after spendinga few days there, she was actually
able to find some of her familymembers emigration records, something that she said
she would have never known or donehad she not happened to be there.
Here's a little clip of Anya speakingon the realization that she had during those
long days at sea and staring outthe window of a Greyhound bush. You
(05:49):
know the places in between that peoplekind of say, oh, you know,
you're never gonna there's no point ingoing back. I mean, that's
kind of the whole reason why youfly to Marsa. You can get over
stuff in between you deem irrelevant basically, and those places I loved because they
were often so surprising. So onmy way back, actually, I took
the Greyhound across the New Mexico andTexas and I was warned by everyone.
(06:14):
They were like, oh, that'sgonna be the most boring part of the
journey, like there is nothing tosee, And actually that was, yeah,
probably one of my favorite, thefavorite parts of my whole journey.
It was so beautiful, and Igot to see all these sunrises and sunsets
over the mountains there, and thecolors kind of in the desert. There's
something kind of, I don't know, a bit presumptuous about just saying,
(06:34):
Oh, the place that I'm gonnago is actually better than everywhere else in
between. Anya's reflections made me wonderwhat influences our perception of what makes a
(06:56):
worthy destination. I found myself lookingat lists of the top ten most visited
tourist destinations in the world and themost traveled countries and cities, and the
one thing that did stand out wasthat a majority of these places were usually
in Western, wealthy countries. Therecould be a lot of reasons for that,
of course, such as proximity toother wealthy nations where people are more
(07:17):
likely to travel. But what arethe ethics of deeming any place better than
another. It's like saying chocolate icecream is better than vanilla, because it's
really a matter of personal preference.What do you want out of this journey?
How do you want it to serveyou? Those are the important questions
in my opinion. And if thereare places that are the best to visit,
(07:40):
then that must mean that there areplaces that are the worst to visit.
And how true can that really be? More often than not, the
people that you meet, the unexpectedsurprises, the feelings you get when you're
traveling, those are the things thatstick with you the most and often overshadow
the destinations speak And I actually thinkthat's encouraging because it speaks to the fact
(08:05):
that you really don't have to flyto the other side of the world to
experience travel and adventure. It couldjust be a train or a bus ride
away. And maybe sometimes that trainor bus ride is the destination. And
no, you don't need a car. Some of my favorite riders use Greyhound
buses and taxi rides as the stagefor their writing inspiration. I'm actually currently
(08:28):
reading Glorious Steinem's memoir it's called MyLife on the Road. Gloria spent many
years traveling across the United States inbuses, taxis, and planes, and
she doesn't need a car because,in her words, adventure starts the moment
I leave my door. And speakingof places that lie in between, have
(09:00):
you ever come across a place ora name of a place that you simply
know nothing about, or that you'dnever even considered visiting. Will Laverne,
one of our very first guests onthe podcast, traveled to a lot of
those places after he drunkenly decided witha few university friends that they would drive
thousands of miles from Europe to Mongoliathrough the Middle East in what is widely
(09:22):
known as the Mongol Rally. TheMongol Rally is a wild and unpredictable adventure
of which the journey is entirely upto you, save for the one condition
that you must use a really small, old, and for lack of a
better word, crappy car to getthere. Will had countless stories about these
(09:43):
countries of which he had zero expectationsand that surprised him in more ways than
one. Slovenia, where they cameacross Lake bled, which Will described as
the most beautiful lake he had everseen. Or the city of Ashgabat in
Turkmenistan, which he described as beingmade of marble and gold. And then
(10:07):
there was the time that their car'saxle broke on one of the most remote
roads in the world, the PamirMountains into Jikistan, and a nearby village
welder welded their car together and refusedto take any money for it. But
how about those countries that you wouldnever dare visiting because it was considered unsafe
(10:28):
or too dangerous. Will and hisfriends went to some of those two and
he had some really interesting things tosay about his experiences there. Here's a
clip from our interview with him ashe reflects back on some of his expectations
and how they changed throughout his trip. I'll be right back with you before
(11:03):
you're going. That's the first thingeveryone said when I say I'm going to
Iran or Turkey or any of theseplaces. It was you know, be
careful, it's gonna be dangerous.And we went in with the mindset that
it probably is, but we wantedto go and see it anyway, and
we came out the other side thinkingwhat a load of rubbish, to be
honest. And there, obviously thereare dangerous parts, and especially in Iran.
(11:26):
The south of Iran, I know, is a lot worse than the
north where we were, but themajority of it was unbelievably safe. We
never felt in danger at all.The people in Iran, especially because they
don't see Westerners, were just sofriendly and so nice, like they we
were such a big deal going intotheir country. We can't when you're in
(11:48):
from like the western world in theUK and the US, when you go
into Iran you have to have atour guide. So for five days we
had to pay for a tour guideto take us in a big convoy through
the country. But we were sucha big deal being there in this tour
group. They were you know,we were on what we called BBC Iran
News and there is every single caron the motorway that was coming past,
(12:13):
they're like leaning out the window,waving, trying to take photos with us,
asking us to go over for dinner. And everywhere we stopped, people
wanted to stay high and just we'reso friendly. There was no negativity towards
us whatsoever. And so yeah,in that sense, I could say that,
you know, we never saw anydanger from Iran. There were much
(12:33):
more world called dodgier places like inCroatia or Montenegro, which are parts of
Europe where we thought we felt maybemore unsafe, but still not. Stupidly
so, people have a really badperception of these countries and think that everyone
is the cause of the problem,and it's not. It's just a minority
in the same sense that it isanywhere. The minority in the UK,
(12:56):
the minority in the US, whoevershouts loud enough seems to be heard.
And the media don't want to showwhere the population are like, they like
to share what the one percent are. What Will talks about really speaks to
(13:24):
that prejudice part of how we makedecisions about where we travel and why,
how our worldview shapes our experiences anddecisions. And if you're like Will or
I, you're fortunate to even considerthe safety of a country as one of
the main reasons you might not beable to go to a place. And
what I've learned this year is thatthat alone is a luxury that many,
(13:48):
if not most, people in thisworld don't have. If I ever met
someone who fits the definition of intrepidbrave, it would be Kristen khaled Karan,
(14:09):
And she happens to be an expertin the places in between, and
sometimes those places are not friendly ones. Kristen has an incredible story, and
I'll summarize it here to the bestof my abilities, but you can go
back to that episode and listen toher full interview. Kristen is from the
Philippines. She was headed to lawschool after taking a gap year to travel
(14:31):
to Cambodia. But when she arrivedthere, she knew almost right away that
she wouldn't be going home anytime soon. So she did something really unexpected.
Took an open flame and burned herreturn flight ticket home. That was over
five years ago, and she stillhasn't returned home since. Instead, she
(14:54):
hitchhiked and hiked her way from Cambodiaall the way to Ukraine, crossing mountains
on foot with nothing but a backpack, and she even hitchhiked a boat to
Indonesia once. I'll let you picturethat one. There are a few things
that are insane about this plan forexample, most people might go home first,
prepare, save money, and thenleave. Then there's the fact that
(15:18):
she's a young woman alone who ishitchhiking and sometimes hiking by herself. Never
mind the fact that she underwent aserious surgery abroad and still refuses to return
home, or that she now currentlylives in Ukraine where there's active war.
You could list countless incredible things aboutthis journey, But what I came to
find out was the most amazing partof this was that she was doing all
(15:41):
of this on a Filipino passport.You see, passports aren't all created equal,
and as it turns out, Kristen'spassport would be the single greatest challenge
throughout her trip. When she arrivedin Ukraine after five years of travel,
where the plan was to apply toenter the Shangen Zone otherwise known as the
European Union, she was denied multipletimes, and according to her, the
(16:06):
denials were in response to a fearthat she would remain in the country illegally,
in other words, that she wouldbecome an illegal immigrant. If you
hold a passport from a developed orwealthy country, chances are you can enter
Europe without even having to fill outa form. All you need to do
is book the ticket and your visais automatic. And that's just not the
(16:30):
same for someone like Kristen. Andthis is a profound realization for me,
who's been traveling my whole life withtwo very privileged passports. I'm even lucky
to have two and not just one. And so I wanted to share some
of her reflections on what it's beenlike for her to travel this way and
(16:56):
why she does it, because it'snot an easy thing to do. My
family they didn't support me at first. They were asking me to come home
(17:19):
all the time. And I understand, like traditionally, the Philippines isn't a
nation of travelers. When we travel, we are immigrants. We work abroad,
We travel to feed our families.You know, We're not the same
type of backpackers you know that gohitch hiking or camping or go abroad for
(17:41):
a long period of time just forleisure. And it's extra challenging for me
because I have to obtain visas toalmost every country that I cross. I
don't just show up at the borders, show my passport and like you know,
hi, I'm here. Can Icross no every land border? I
(18:02):
get questioned about my purpose of travelas a single, solo female traveler from
a developing country. And I'm emphasizingon single because it's not just for work,
but people go to different countries,you know. But it was a
dream and I think that if youreally have a dream, you just go
for it. I think that myhome is the road. I think that
(18:23):
I've belong here. I've never beenhappier elsewhere. And I told you guys,
I've never fought for anything so muchas this tree. And by being
here, you know, taking upspace, as you know, a minority
adventure, I am doing my partin order to make this sphere travel sphere,
(18:45):
more accessible to people, more inclusiveto people. And I think the
only way to go is further becausethere's so much things to see. I
haven't seen it all, and youknow, I just hope I survived this
work. If you didn't catch thatlast part, Kristen said, she hopes
(19:11):
she survives this war. That's becauseshe's currently living in Ukraine, where there's
an active war with Russia. Shedecided to stay there because when she was
applying for her Shangen visa to enterEurope and then COVID hit she settled in
Ukraine, where she found a community, friends and a job, and then
(19:33):
her visa got denied again and again, so when war broke out, she
couldn't bear to leave her newfound community. But her story begs the question why
do people from white, wealthy countriesget to be expats while people from black
and brown developing countries are immigrants?And to really hone in on this point,
(19:56):
I'm going to read the Dictionary definitionsof immigrants and expat An immigrant is
quote a person who comes to livepermanently in a foreign country end quote,
and an expatriate is quote a personwho lives outside of their native country end
quote. These definitions are almost identical, but they fail to highlight the very
(20:19):
different social connotations that go with each. Why is that. I'll leave that
question with you. I think we'veestablished that travel is a different experience for
(20:40):
everyone, quite literally, and Kristenis a real testament to that. But
it can also have different meaning.Some of us want to feel better about
our choices, like Anya. Somewant to challenge themselves to do something out
of the ordinary, like Will.Others like Kristen, simply do it because
they need to deepen their bones,like breathing air and drinking water. But
(21:02):
there are many reasons, and oneof them can be to connect with a
part of your past or ancestry thatyou have been disconnected from. This is
the case for Chido, an AfricanAmerican man from Louisiana. If you weren't
familiar with American history in the UnitedStates, hundreds of years of slavery meant
(21:26):
that hundreds of thousands of Africans weretorn from their home countries and enslaved on
the other side of the world.They helped build America as we know it,
and as a result, African Americanswho are their descendants today can have
little to know knowledge about their ancestry, to the point of not knowing what
(21:48):
country their ancestors came from. Chidois one of those people. So when
he got the chance to travel toAfrica, he jumped at it. He
had never been outside of the countrybefore. His experience was really touching,
and I wanted to share with youthis moment that really struck me from his
(22:11):
trip, and I'll be back withyou in a minute. After we got
out of France, because you know, like when you're on the plane,
you could like check the little likeflight path and when you're about to cross
over into Africa and everything, soliterally, like everybody we were just like
counting it down, like oh mygod, like we're flying over, We're
(22:33):
in the continent, like we werejust Yo. It was just amazing,
you know, like tears of happiness, you know. And when we landed,
it was absolutely surreal to hop offthe plane and the first thing I
see is like the string of adsand it's just all black people. And
then we get down into the terminalbefore we leave and like check out and
it's just like see of black people. I'm just like, Yo, this
(22:57):
is amazing. Although they were likeall speaking French, I feel like I'm
partly a visitor because I'm still American, you know, like and and there's
like a disconnected communication because I don'tI also don't speak French. I've only
ever seen myself through the lens ofa Eurocentric person, you know what I'm
(23:17):
saying, like through the American lens, you know, or being in America
and only seeing Africa through the Eurocentriclens. So it's like to be able
to see that for myself and youknow, put my hands in the dirt,
you know, like talk to thesepeople, like get get recognized,
and like the first day or twothat I was out there, you know,
me not speaking, people would assumethat I was Ivorian. Like they
(23:41):
would just treat me as such,you know, until I started talking,
and then and then they would belike, oh, like oh stop,
like you're American, you know.So like even like slight incidents like that
like were like more rewarding than anythingelse because it just it just let me
know that I was that much closerto realizing my identity and like being like,
(24:04):
yo, this is who I amoutside of what I was told to
be. Throughout that episode, Schidodescribed his experience as an emotional roller coaster
and not always positive. In hisinterview, he talked at length about some
of the more difficult parts of thetrip, like seeing firsthand how the Ivory
(24:26):
Coast economy continues to get exploited bywealthy Western nations, often to the detriment
of locals. One of the fulfillingexperiences he described was when he was able
to visit an indigenous tribe for afew days, and one of the tribe's
elders identified some of Schido's physical traitsas resembling that of a specific Ivorian tribe
(24:51):
in the region. Schido said thatthat experience was intensely gratifying and that from
now on he's quote an honorary Orianuntil further notice. I realize that oftentimes
we talk about travel as a meansto take us out of our comfort zones,
(25:11):
and from a Western developed perspective,this often means sleeping without a mattress
or living without running water for awhile. Sometimes it means experiencing a culture
with a totally different language to you. But if Schido's experience has taught us
anything, it's that sometimes travel isa means of seeking comfort and a missing
(25:33):
peace. Sometimes travel is coming homeor discovering what home is, or better
yet, discovering who we are.I'm going to leave you with that thought,
but before you go, I wantto say a few words about what
this journey has been like for us. John, Max and I we really
don't often talk about how we produceour podcast or what goes on behind the
(25:57):
scenes, but I can tell youthat in the last two years since John
approached Max and I with the ideafor a travel podcast project, we've gone
through a lot. Not only werewe starting a podcast without any experience in
podcasting, but we all live indifferent cities, and I would be lying
(26:18):
if I said that this didn't takea toll on us at On top of
that, schedule conflicts and the normaltrappings of creating a work culture from scratch
and with zero financial motivation at leastfor now, not to mention audio issues
that have plagued us from the verybeginning. In fact, true story,
just a couple of weeks ago,I sat down to edit an episode only
(26:41):
to find out that I had mymic backwards during the whole interview. I
was pretty upset at myself for that, but you move on and move forward
and just keep going anyway. Idon't mean for you to feel sorry for
us. That's not at all thegoal of this message. But in this
(27:02):
reflective time, I felt the needto talk to you the listener and sincerely
share what may not always be obvious, and also to thank you for being
here, really, because despite allof this, we've watched our numbers steadily
grow, frankly to my surprise,and I want to be clear that we're
(27:25):
really not swimming in listeners here,but we now consistently get several hundred listeners
per month. Close to a thousandat times, and it frankly astonishes me.
I think for a long time Isubconsciously dismissed this as friends and family
from our extended circles listening to us. But seven hundred people can't just be
(27:48):
our friends and family. Like myaunt Joanne, for example, who's about
eighty seven years old and listens tous on her Alexa every week and gives
me great constructive feedback. Thanks AuntJoanne, my dad who listens to every
single episode, and my mom andJohn's partner, and all of those people
(28:10):
who have supported us, Thank you. But seven hundred plus people can't just
be our friends and family. AndI wonder a lot who are these people
who are tuning in listening to myvoice and our voice and yeah, and
we really don't know, because thetruth is, we've had very little mail
(28:32):
from listeners since we released our firstepisode. So if you're listening it to
us right now, do me onefavor and reach out to us on Instagram,
via email, through our website,on Facebook, anywhere. We really
really would love to hear from you, even if it's just hey, my
name is Blah blah and I've listenedto X amount of episodes. I think
(28:53):
I speak for all of us whenI say we really love to know who
you are. You can find usonline on all the platforms Facebook, globetrotters
Podcast, Instagram at globetrotters podcast,Twitter, globetrot Pod, and our website
www. Dot gts podcast dot com. Editing on this episode was done by
(29:14):
myself. I really hope you likedit. This was something different. I
had a lot of fun and gotreally creative. So let us know if
you did, and who knows,that may influence the future of this podcast.
All right, thanks for listening.Bye.
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