#48 A Tale of Two Trekkers - The Himalayas With Chris Meyer and Vidya Kaipa

The Himalayas is a mountain range in Asia that is home to 9 out of 10 of the world's highest peaks, including Mount Everest. But, while many recognize this area for its dangerously difficult and high altitude mountaineering - we speak with two travelers; Chris and Vidya, who share their experiences traversing some of the most dynamic topography on this planet while revealing the unique and intrinsic beauty this landscape has to offer. Although their trips were taken separately and at different seasons, the commonalities between the two distinct adventures cannot be ignored showcasing that the Himalayas is a destination for all, not just the ultra fit.

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Episode Transcript

(00:13):
You're listening to the Globetrotters podcast,the travel podcast that highlights real life,
attainable travel stories from people of allbackgrounds. We hope to be your one
stop shop for everything travel, whetheryou're a first time looking for tips or
a season traveler looking for inspiration.We keep you up to speed on the
latest travel news and investigate travel trendsso you don't have to I'm your co

(00:33):
host and I'm Saskia Hatvani, andI just have to mention that today is
a special day because we're actually ina real life recording studio. If you've
been following us for a while,you might know that this is extremely rare.
John Max and I don't live inthe same city, and our world
traveling guests are of course often notable to be with us in person,

(00:58):
so virtually all recordings happen virtually.So yeah, and it's a good thing,
because how use will we get somany cool people on the podcast.
But I have to say it's reallynice to be in person and to see
every hair on John's head thanks mygraying hair. It's a bit freaky and
exciting to be recording in the studioagain. The last time we were all
together. We were in San Francisco. Now we're in Austin, Texas.

(01:22):
But today we're going from the oceanfloor to the roof of the world.
Quite literally, we're talking thank you. We're talking about a land long lusted
after by travelers of all kinds,from the budget backpacker to the ambitious mountaineer.
I'm talking, of course about Nepaland more specifically the Himalayas, right

(01:45):
home to Mount Everest, the tallestmountain in the world. And to do
so, we rather excitingly have notone but two guests with us today,
both of whom have explored this regionin two very different ways. Video kuype
is how you're pronouncing Navi. VidiaKaipa traveled to Nepal solo and did a
six day hiking trek to Pikey Peak, a trek with views of Mount Everest

(02:08):
and a maximum elevation of thirteen thousandfeet or just over four thousand meters.
And Chris Meyer, who hiked EverspaceCamp with his father and sister back in
twenty eighteen. If you didn't know, hiking to what is considered the bottom
of Everest is a feat in itself. It takes about two weeks and you

(02:29):
traverse eighty miles or one hundred andthirty kilometers round trip. So we're going
to discuss these two different experiences today, talk about our guests, recommendations and
thoughts on how they accomplished these journeys, both of which are just honestly not
your average hike. Right. Sowe'll also compare cost, challenge level,

(02:51):
cultural experience, and all of theabove. But first, Vidia and Chris,
thanks so much for being here.Of course. Yeah, I'm excited
to be here, yeah, andnervous. Now another day in the way,
all right, so let's just getone thing out of the way first.
I want to make sure that youknow, those who are listening get

(03:13):
that you two are not like mountaineeringjunkies per se. Of course, correct
me if I'm wrong, But Ithink some people think that, you know,
if you're hiking these types of places, especially Everest, especially the Himalayas,
that you need to be like thesuper fit hiking junkie. But that's
not always the case. So yeah, talk about your experience a little bit

(03:35):
to get us started. Are yousaying they're not super fit because both of
these guys have six pack over here, right, but you know, let's
talk about your experience level. Ohyeah, so this is a video here.
I think one of the things thatI consider about myself is I'm an
outdoor enthusiast, and so any wayto engage with the outdoors is really something

(03:58):
that I look forward to. Andso I'm a climber, which I think
gets me somewhat acclimated to the ideaof for sure, you know, in
these mountainous environments, but um,you know, more than that, I
just love hiking, and and myhike, as you pointed out, was
not actually that high of elevation.It was really more about the journey of
being not that high. Are youkidding? We're gonna definitely get into that,

(04:20):
okay, Um, yeah, Imean thirteen thousand feet is I mean,
I've been to thirteen thousand feet andhad altitude six Yeah, it's no
joke. So but I love youryour humbleness. Yeah all right, Chris.
What about your experiencing, I wouldsay, um, I mean coming
into Everest. I mean we've donemany hikes with my family, and that's

(04:45):
kind of like a Myer family tradition, so to speak, with my dad
and my sister. So we've donea bunch of different hikes across the world
at that point. At that pointwe also did a bunch of national parks
as well, so we've done manyhikes. I don't think it's I mean,
it's quite literally us with the laptoptrying to figure it out. So
it's not like I'm Conrad anchor overhere like. But but I would say

(05:05):
like I had a decent amount ofexperience going towards Everest that I felt confident
that I wasn't like worried that Iwas going to die right like, which
is always the fear. And soChris, I'm going to start with you,
what made you want to hike baseCamp or your family? And did
you ever did your family ever considerhiking to the summit? Yeah, So

(05:29):
before the trip to Everest, Iactually went to Nepal on we like a
philanthropy trip, I guess. Soit was me and a bunch of people
at my old job that went therefor we went to build a in a
rural village, a school because educationis not something that's very accessible to both
men and women there and so itwas a part closer to India. But

(05:53):
anyways, I went there the firsttime and kind of fell in love with
the place, and I mean inplace that if you go to Kathmine Doo,
it's not a place that's very tall, right, It's kind of ragged
and it has it's obviously it's charm, but it's not like you're drowning in
skyscrapers. You're more so just anawe by what's around you, which is

(06:14):
these mountains that are like their versionof skyscrapers. So that's kind of I
guess where I got into that.The reason why, I think is because
we went there the first time wedid that, and I fell in love
with the culture there and had anenjoyable experience. So I was like,
well, this is very much apart of their culture, and if I
can experience a little bit more ofthat and obviously share that with my family,

(06:36):
that's what I'm gonna do. Now. That's obviously to base Camp.
I think the reason why we didn'tgo all the way to the top,
to be quite honest, was wasfear. Right, like nineteen thousand feet
in some change it you know,you're not used to that, and you
can't really get to that in theUS. The tallest that I ever went
to was a couple of fourteen ersin Colorado, and you know, even

(06:59):
that was very tough to even breathe. So nineteen thousand feet and then you're
thinking of even going beyond that wasjust scary. Now I'm being at that
point, you know, it's definitelylike, oh, that's totally you know,
I could totally, I could totallydo it, um, And I
feel more confident in myself. Butbut yeah, I would say that was
kind of I guess the hindrance goingall the way up. This sets up

(07:23):
your next question. So well,okay, okay, well okay, So
let me put it this way.Everest has long been criticized, especially recently,
as a hike of ego more thananything, like people hiking it more
so to say that, say thatthey hiked it for sure, less than
for the actual hike itself. Andit's especially gotten a lot of criticism lately

(07:46):
because of environmental you know, impact, crowded lines at the top, deaths,
and so be honest, when Iasked this question, um, is
there was there any ego involved inyour decision at all to do base camp?
Do you think I think? Ithink, of course, like yeah,

(08:09):
right, Like there's definitely an urgefor the next challenge, and so
I think that in the sense fueledthe ego. But like I said in
the first part, I think ittruly was when you're in this village where
we're talking about huts, right,um, you know there's no there's no
internet, there's there's electricity, uh, and you're gathering around on fire every

(08:30):
night. There's a certain part ofthe culture that you just feel a part
of, even though you know thatthat's temporary. So I do feel that
the Himalayas in general are this sacredmountain, doesn't matter what part of Nepal
you're in, that is very muchcherished. So I do feel like that
was more of the driving force.But in terms of how I'm driven um

(08:54):
as a sales guy in life ismore so like oh I can I can
do that? Um. So yes, when I got to base camp,
you know, you know when Iwas when I got to base camp,
of course, I was like,you know, you know, what's what's
an extra few thousand feet? Right? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
what what's you know? And justbecause like you you start to notice

(09:18):
and I think due to the amountof tourists that have come through and that
it's I would say fairly well establishedtrail that at least I went up to.
Um, you realize how attainable itactually is, right now, I
would never do that by myself.I mean we went to base camp by
my like as a group, whichwas very easy to get to in my

(09:41):
opinion, but like, you know, I would never remotely think about,
oh yeah, I'm just gonna dothis without a shirt or something like that.
And one of the things that makesEverest Base Camp so notorious. Even
for me, it's always been alifelong goal to at least make it to
that point. Yeah, it's becausemost places that you go to you probably
part at the bottom of the mountainand then start start your way up.

(10:03):
And to get to every space camp, it was roughly a two week trail.
I think, sank you did themath. It's one hundred and thirty
kilometers eighty miles round trip. Whatwere some of the challenges along the way,
and can you talk us through thetrail? I mean it's fourteen days.
Yeah, I think that when youstart going on this trail, right,

(10:24):
So the first part is this rightis like getting into Katmandu, which
is you know, you think,oh, it's just an airport, it's
you know, the luggage delivery systemthere is not like you go to a
normal like bay and then it's thereand you pull off. It's almost like
they auction it off because you havea ticket. And then when you get
to the next and I forgot exactlyhow to pronounce it, luck law,

(10:46):
which is where you start. That'sanother flight, and that's an even smaller
airport with an even smaller plane.So you're quite literally has a there's a
person out there just holding up alottery ticket that you can bear understand,
you know, the language in avery you know, obscure location, trying
to get that. And then obviouslyyou start going on the trail and then

(11:07):
you start feeling the elevation. ButI think what really hits you was when
what, at least for me,the biggest surprise was sleeping. So after
certain height, it's just hard tosleep because if you think about it,
your body is just simply struggling,right, And that was probably the part
that I didn't think of now gettingto a certain elevation, all of that

(11:31):
trying to be fit enough that i'dbe, you know, as best as
my ability, and at the timeI was living in I think Philadelphia.
So it's right, it's not likea high elevation area, but I try
to do the best I can there. But you would go across many different
terrain with different suspension bridges. Someof the things that were like really funny

(11:52):
was like you would just start hearingbells and that was because it was attached
to the mules that were taking upsupplies to base camp. And so you're
talking a tiny path mountain pass right. You know, there's not a lot
of space, so you're kind oftrying to make sure that you're on the
mountain side and not you know,the cliff side at some of the different
junctions there. That was really terrifying, and I mean it would be a

(12:15):
hole, you know, I don'tknow heard of these animals going by with
tons of different equipment, and youknow, you're trying not to get hit
by gas tanks that are on themand other different things. So yeah,
it's kind of crazy. Yeah,you mentioned elevation, so I was going
to ask this question. I thinkit's over five thousand meters, which is

(12:35):
sixteen thousand feet is about where basecamp is at. So I've only ever
been to thirteen thousand feet personally.When I went to Cousco Yea and someone
in my group got very ill justfrom being at that. Granted we flew
in, so it's quite a bitof a shock, like when you just
go from sea level to ten thousandfeet. However, like, did you

(12:58):
have a point in which you startedstruggling or anyone in your group started really
struggling? Yeah, So I thinkthe key is the time it takes.
Right, if you actually look atthe miles for you know, eighty miles
that doesn't sound too crazy like inreality over the span of two weeks.
Well, right, yeah, Ithink it's all, well, well you're

(13:20):
and you're going up. So Ithink the days that you like so one,
you have to take the time toacclimate as you go up, right,
So that was always important. Andeven though you're itching for kind of
like that next step and like youbut these little towns, you have these
beautiful little tea houses that you canenjoy your life and it's actually quite nice.
Um, but like that's the importantpart of those acclaimation periods. I

(13:41):
think I don't know if it wasnecessarily something where like true altitude sickness,
where you know, you see someof those signs I think a lot of
us were more so of just goingthrough hard to breathe type moments, um
lack of sleep that obviously, youknow, led to frustration, things like
that. So it wasn't anything necessarilythat was too struggling. I think a

(14:03):
lot of times we spaced out thetime for a reason, and I think
we were very methodical about that tomake sure that we had enough time,
whether it was during the day,to break to rest after that, things
like that. And I saw videosshaking her head when we were talking about
the tea houses, and I think, listens, this is a great time
to just kind of explain what atea house is. Yeah, a tea

(14:24):
house is. It's oftentimes just someone'shouse, someone who lives in the in
the mountains, and they anticipate thatthere's going to be travelers going through that
area, so they stalk part oftheir house with tea, coffee, little
snacks. You can purchase little youknow, packaged goods from there. But

(14:45):
it's really just a place that youcan rest. They oftentimes have places you
can sleep, and you know,usually run by like a little old couple.
Yeah, like a guest house kindof. But I like the name
tea house, it's cozier. It'slike it's like their version of BnB,
right, like uh and so itwas really nice. But then you would
see like like I'm five ten,you're a giant in Nepal. Right,

(15:09):
you're talking to me. I'm like, oh no, yeah, I am,
like you're just a giant and Nepal. Uh. So, like you
see these people that you know onon a good day, like they're five
six five four right, and andthey're eating mounds of food, like an
every size version of rice because they'retheir meal that they had everywhere was tall

(15:33):
bot or tall bit I think ishow you pronounce it, yea. And
so it was like rice and thenveggies and some typically some type of protein.
But the mountain of rice that youwould receive, you're just like I
could be starving for like a weekand I don't think I can put that
down. And you see them thatare like half your size and just chipping

(15:54):
away. Why isn't that do youthink? Yeah? Is it because of
the elevation, because that's one ofyou know, you talk about sleep at
higher altitude. For me, athigher altitude, it was harder for me
to like have a desire to wantto eat. Yeah, I think,
uh, there's all there. Ithink there's two things, right. I
think there's the elevation, but alsoreally realizing that these people are out there

(16:18):
right, like they're doing most ofthis themselves, whatever it is around their
home, a lot of manual laborconsistently. Um. And that's both men
and women there, right, Sothere's no difference at all, uh.
And so I think for me thatwas probably it is that on a day
to day basis from our lifestyle,which is quite sedentary, right, it's
just different. Um. I thinkwhat was really sad was actually going along

(16:41):
the trail there and I went afterthe avalanche or sorry, earthquake, and
you would see how many the damageof like former two houses that were there,
and there was some that were likeyou know, still kind of getting
ready to open and things like that, and it was it's really sad.
Even in Kathmandu, which I'm sureyou as well, it's just that part

(17:02):
was really sad to see. It'sjust the devastation even three years after.
And you know, since we aretalking about the people that live there,
I think it's only fitting that videodescribes a difference between the porter and a
serpa because I think it's commonly misusedand attribute it that anyone who is working
as a porter as a guide mustbe a cherpa and vice versa. But

(17:26):
video you were actually the one thateducated me. So if you want to
educate our listeners, now's the time. Yeah, and John has quoted you
many times on the podcast, sowell, I feel very famous. Yeah
you are. Yeah, So actuallythat's I think what John was getting to
is kind of the heart of it, that porters are a role, but
scherpa's are people, and oftentimes asare synonymous because the RPA people are the

(17:49):
local people of the Kumbi kumb region, which is where the himla is that
we know of are really primarily focused. So the people of those areas tend
to get into the industry that makessense for that area. In that case,
it's the mountaineering. So there's manySpa people who are in the mountaineering

(18:11):
world, so much so that itbecame synonymous a porter art. Typically you
are dealing with a person, butone thing you'll notice is a lot of
people's last names or Serpa and no, I didn't know that. Wow.
So is a Sherpa like an ethnicityor does it just mean that you're from

(18:32):
a certain region. From what Iunderstand, it is an ethnic group.
There's a language as well that's Tibetanessentially, but it's adapted for that region.
Yeah. Super interesting. And it'ssaid that for every climber that is
aspiring to conquer the peak, atleast two human beings have to be employed

(18:52):
as porters, and naturally fifty thousandSherpas who inhabit the high regions of the
Himalaya known as the Kumbu region thatI think pronouncing that correctly are usually the
ones that answer these calls to actionas they look to better their livelihoods.
So, Chris, or before Isay that, the one thing I want
to say about this too is they'reusually the highest praised, belowest paid on
these expeditions. Yeah, so,Chris, can you talk about your experience

(19:17):
working with sherpas if you did so? We actually didn't. Um, So,
we did the base camp ourselves,right, We kind of just looked
it up and like I said,it was it was quite like natural to
go up there. I would say, like, you meet a bunch of
them, and I think what you'realso describing kind of touching on is that
these people are incredible. Yeah,incredible hikers, and you know they're now

(19:45):
all termed sherpa versus. You know, let's say a white guy goes up
there and does it, and thenit's like, oh, that's a hiker.
This is their name, and theyaccomplished X Y z UM. It's
almost like their accomplishments, so yeah, oh yeah, this is just their
job. And it's like, well, their job is incredible, Like how
the how the heck are they ableto do that? Um? And I
know that they touched on it ona Netflix document docuseries recently after. I

(20:07):
think it was the fourteen Points orPeaks. Yeah, fourteen peaks like that,
that is incredible feet and it's becausethese people are incredibly gifted and obviously
well equipped to do what they're ableto do. But you know, could
are they celebrated as much as thenext person? You know, it's really
the question. So anyways, myexperience, we didn't necessarily hire somebody.

(20:30):
I know that they recently changed thatthat you have to hire somebody, which
I think is good. UM nationalizesin my opinion, that tourist money,
which is good to give back tothat particular region because you know, some
of the economical costs that goes intothat, or ecological costs that go into
it. So I enjoy just hearingthem talk and learning their stories and understanding,

(20:52):
you know, where they've been outsideof this um. That was kind
of some of those special things thatI was able to appreciate. Yeah,
and your comment actually made me wonderif there is a list of Everest climbers,
are the porters included on this list? And as far as I can
tell, they are, which isgood because I was just thinking in my

(21:17):
head, like people celebrate one personclimbing this one time, but if you're
a porter and it's your career,you would do it dozens of times.
That's right, Yeah, that's right. Maybe we should talk about like the
actual experience a little more. Idon't know, I feel like we haven't
quite touched on it. Okay,well yeah, yeah, I mean okay,
So I guess I'm gonna plainly askyou because I think I'm not sure,

(21:38):
and please correct me. Can yousee Everest? And I know this
is going to sound kind of counterintuitive, but can you see mail Everest from
Everest base camp? From Everest basecamp, so you typically the highest point
that you go to from base campis calla, which is where you which
is where you can see it.So and what we did was we went

(22:00):
up there for sunrise, which wasabsolutely worth it. Um So, I
don't think I really remember, it'sbeen a little bit, UM really remember
seeing it from actual base camp,but I do remember us going to see
it from from that, Okay,And I didn't want to put you on
the spot, but I know thatthat's true because I'm sessed with Everest.

(22:22):
But do you have to get tothat point that you're talking about to see
Everest? Which is kind of interestingand ironic that you know, you you
climb for two or you're hiking mountaineeringfor two weeks, and you well,
actually, how long does it takeyou? It's to two week round trips
week round trip, so it's oneweek too. But on the way up
you do get to see Everest rightfrom very different vantage points as well as

(22:48):
just the retest of kind of thatmountain range. Like it's you definitely see
it, and you know as youget closer. So I have a question
because as Don just revealed himself,he is of cessed with Everest, and
like we're very different in that way. I mean, I love traveling.
I'll always say yes to most thingsusually, but I'm not I've never been

(23:10):
one to be super interested in likesummitting the biggest mountains or you know,
I just don't. I've never reallyfelt the allure and maybe some people listening
can relate. So can you explainfor you what the allure is of doing
this particular base camp hike? Yeah, over say any other one in the

(23:30):
Himalayas, such as the one thatwe're going to talk about with video for
example. Yeah, I think thatObviously there's the name, and we touched
on kind of the ego aspect too, like if I can name a random
Himalayan mountain right like, it's notgoing to have the same appeal as that.
So you're spending the money to goall the way out there, like
you're gonna do quote unquote the hikeright right. So I would say,

(23:56):
from my standpoint, I think that'swhat really went into it. Yeah,
I think that's really kind of whatI would say drove that. So I
think it was definitely there and whyI wanted to do that one. What
was a better achievement for you gettingto ever a space camp or seeing it
from what is the name of thatpoint again, Patar Yeah, for sunrise,

(24:18):
What was a better experience for youor achievement, Kali Patarka, without
a doubt, why not a question? I think it was seeing it at
sunrise and seeing because you're most ofthe time right, so when you see
it at sunrise, it gets verymuch lit well before you feel any sort
of sun so it really puts inperspective. Right, you can see it,

(24:42):
right, everybody can see the majestythat is that. But to see
how long it takes and legitimately thetime it takes for you to even feel
sunlight at that height is insane,and so that was probably one of the
best things that I saw. Also, it's just like a culmulating moment of
like, we made it right andthat was the plan and that's what we

(25:03):
wanted to do. So yeah,But I would say, like in terms
of you asked about experience, likejust hiking up the mountain, you're going
through various different terrain from whether it'svery rocky and sandy to now these ridiculously
massive suspension bridges. As a personthat's not the keenest on heights, you
know, going over these suspension bridgesin a country. It's it's kind of

(25:29):
terrifying with once again mules going aroundyou and things like that. And then
you're getting to glaciers, which youknow, if you've ever been on one,
it's amazing to see how something sosolid can act like a fluid and
to see like these waves of itand how different it can form, and
you know, you can almost hearit move, and then it has somehow

(25:51):
this blue color in it that youalmost feel looks like it's fake and painted
on, but yet it's not,and it's just natural and it's just very
beautiful. But you you know,you just see those different things coming through.
M Oh my god, this questionjust like disappeared out of my head
completely. I got mesmerized by yourdescription. No, what was I going

(26:15):
to say? It was like soso relevant to this. Damn it,
John, Did you have something tosay? No, I mean, I
don't want to get too meta,but does it ever hit? I mean,
what are the thoughts going through yourhead when you know there's what nearly
eight billion people on this planet andso few get to see the tallest point
on this planet? Good point?What is that? Even like I don't

(26:37):
even know. I think it's somethingthat, you know. To be quite
honest, I was worried that thatwould be it in terms of would I
ever see something that great? WouldI ever appreciate something that great? And
my dad said this one thing.And my dad's very German, so he

(26:57):
doesn't say a lot of things,but he does speak. It's perfect.
He's uh, he's very profound.And I would say. The one thing
that he said, and it wasn'tnecessarily on this trip, but he said
it throughout the years, is thateach place, the reason why it's protected
is that there's some aspect of itthat's beautiful that you can't find somewhere else.
For example, Everest, it's thetallest, right, You're never going

(27:18):
to see something of that sheer sizeand beauty something like that. But every
single place has its beauties. ButI was worried that going to a place
like that that has you know,has been hyped up over the years as
the hike period across the world,that that would be it, and that
would be the peak and I wouldnever see something like that again. And
that was that to me, wasmore of the fear seeing something like that,

(27:44):
and then afterwards, you know,going to see some of the other
stuff that I've done. Um,you know, you realized like that's ridiculous,
right, you know, but itwas definitely a worry interesting, Yeah,
will I peak on? Was thatmuch? I really? But but
I think a lot of people,to answer your question bluntly, I think
a lot of people don't do itbecause I think it's it's too unattainable.

(28:10):
And I think that that's wrong.Right. Um, it's Nepal in general
extremely friendly, Like the language barrieris not ridiculous or anything like that.
Like this is something that you shouldn'tfear. I think you should go in
knowing that I'm gonna have to workout. You can't just show up and
do it right, good point,you know, you know you got you
gotta be prepared. But I thinkthat the fact that this is just this

(28:33):
you know, unachievable thing, Ijust disagree with that. I don't think
that that's the case. And whetherthat's financial or physical. So two things,
as we mentioned a few episodes ago, now, actually the government has
made it illegal to do any yeahtricks or hikes in Nepal without a part
or a guide for safety reasons,mainly because rescue efforts take cost too much

(28:56):
money. Etc. But what Iwas going to ask is how much did
you prepare physically for this? Didyou train? Oh? Yeah? Yeah?
Oh really yeah. I spent probablylike at least a week in all
right, So I spent two separatetrips to Colorado for a week each because
I knew that I was going tobe at least the closest. UM did

(29:17):
a few fourteen ers just to onceagain kind of at least get as high
as I possibly could um no punintended in Denver, but as high as
I possibly could um on those hikes, and just also just kind of be
there. Right. It wasn't likego up, go down. It was
also like, okay, like howdo I feel? Like? Can I
sit here for a little bit,like let me see what eating would be

(29:40):
like? You know, tested outas best as I can. Um,
So yes, I did train alot. Okay, And do you feel
did you? I mean you stillstruggled a little bit? Oh yeah,
yeah, so I mean that willthat right there will tell you that this
is no walk in the path.That was half expecting him to say,
like no, of course, notlike a train, but you know,
you know, at thirteen thousand feetin Cusco, like it was a struggle

(30:03):
to walk up the stairs to myroom every day. Yeah, and my
boyfriend's head blew up like a balloonand like it was purple basically for three
days. Well, what's really terrifyingAs I went recently to Colorado and it's
like and and I had a hardtime at thirteen thousand feet recently. That's
high up. That's high up.But like I've been higher than that.

(30:26):
I've been there recently at that height, So it's like, you know,
what's what's the scale here? Youknow? Yeah, well each time your
body needs to readjust yeah, correct, unless you maybe were born at that
I think I read something a longtime ago about how people born at higher
elevations have like a little bit slightlydifferent physiology that allows them to tolerate the

(30:47):
higher altitude. Or perhaps it's likea general a generational thing, like people
who have come from generations of peoplewho've lived at high elevations actually have physiological
advantages. And when it comes tothis is a question directed at both of
you, did you take Diamoks withyou? This is actually the second episode
and we've in which we've discussed highelevation, Yeah, you know, hiking.

(31:11):
Did you bring any sort of likemedication for anyone listening diamox as a
medication used for to treat like altitudesickness. I did have a guide with
me, and so he had diamoksand all the other medications. And even
recently when I did a fourteen erin Mexico, I had my guide had

(31:34):
diamoks. But luckily I didn't haveto take it either time. Yeah,
I brought it with me. Um. And then yeah, I made sure
that I had that, but youdidn't take it. I did not have
to take you. Yeah, bestavoided, right, Yeah, so um,
so let's move on a little bit. Uh. We were talking about
impact, and also I just wantto make this clear, like after base

(31:56):
camp, there's no more tea houses, correct or it's like tent camping.
Well so, so at the basecamp, so typically what you do is
you don't want to stay at basecamp, right, So you don't want
to spend too much time above thatcertain level. At least we didn't want
to. So you're pretty much goingup there to come back down, all
right, And so yeah, it'snot necessarily tent camping. So you would

(32:21):
go from you know, one ofthe tea houses in a relatively close area
and you kind of get your pickand then you go up there, right,
But if you were to hike passthat point, it's then your tent
camping and your tent camping. Allright, So this leads me to my
next question at base camp. Yeah, now I've seen, we talked mentioned
the environmental impact of this. Yeah, we made a lot of waves recently.

(32:43):
Was the fact that the Nepalese governmenta few years ago found brought back
like four thousand pounds of trash fromthe slopes of Everest and estimated there were
at least three thousand more pounds oftrash. And I've seen many pictures of
base camp just completely littered with trash. Yeah, so, and I can

(33:04):
imagine that this probably becomes more ofan issue higher up. But did you
witness any of that? Did yousee any trash? Did you witness any
of that? Yeah, no,absolutely, you definitely see it. Really,
But like that the complex that's hardis like that's Nepal, right,
Like in in the major city,they burn their trash. There's no you

(33:27):
know, garbage men and things likethat. Yeah, so's it just is
what they do. And you know, well, then your mind goes to
well, what's the fix, right, If you fix it with let's say
you do have somebody somehow transporting trash, that means the route is now way
more commercialized. That means that probablyenvironmental impact is probably bigger um at its

(33:49):
scale, even though you're moving itout. So it's kind of like a
very in my opinion, it's doubleits short, right, there's there's it's
bad. So either it's more solike you limit the entire hikers period,
which then has an economical cost toNepal, or you make it more commercial

(34:12):
which it already is very to thenhave that removed in a place that doesn't
already do that, I feel likethat's a bigger infrastructure question for me.
I think one of the find oneof the things that I find most confusing
is that, you know, kindof a cardinal rule of hiking is pack
it in, pack it out.Why is that not the approach? Inevert

(34:32):
exactly my thoughts. It's a greatquestion. I would say that when you
look at pack it and pack itout right, and most of the time
that's I would say, more soa US thought, right, like if
you go like to most places outsideof the US, at least in my

(34:53):
personal opinion. It's like, yes, we want to protect the environment,
but like you know, my packingin and out everything like probably not right
in terms of their mentality, Right, I personally do that just for the
come after Chris, don't come afterme. I promise I'm all about It's

(35:16):
very insightful, Chris, thank you. No real transition so video. Part
of the reason that we're doing anepisode focused on trekking in Nepaul particularly is
because it's one of the world's mostcoveted destination for trekkers. And this is
for several reasons. We already talkedabout how it has eight out of the

(35:36):
ten tallest mountains in the world,the topography of the country is seventy nine
percent mountainous. But I also thinkthere's this notion that people who trek in
Nepaul or the Himalayas are doing eightthousand meter hikes aka hikes that take you
into the death zone at more thantwenty six thousand feet, right, And
obviously you're trek is not Everest,But it didn't sound like a walk in

(35:59):
the park to me either. Imean you sort of shrugged it off,
but when you sent me the information, I mean you do reach an elevation
of over four thousand meters, whichis thirteen thousand feet, the same elevation
where my boyfriend's had swell swelled up, swollswoll of like a balloon. Poor
guy. There's a picture of himholding an up baby alpaca, which is

(36:20):
like the cutest thing in the world, but he looks miserable, like I
framed the picture anyway, So it'snot nothing to go to this elevation.
So do you let's talk about,like, do you remember it being a
challenge at all, Like what wasit like for you? Yeah, unlike
Chris, I did not exercise atall in preparation for it. I was

(36:42):
in India for a week before that, and my family was just stuffing me
full of food. So I wasprobably in the least physical, the least
peak conditioned physical shape. I mean, but you know, I'm an athlete.
I play sports year round, andI grew up playing sports, and
so I have a base level offitness that maybe I'm underestimating, clearly.

(37:04):
Yeah, but I also feel like, you know, you, if you
spread this trip over several days,it becomes very reasonable. I started the
trek I think at like eight ornine thousand feet, so it really was
only four thousand feet game, butobviously when you're up at that elevation,
every foot matters, right. Idid start to get a little exhausted on

(37:29):
the first day. I flew intoKatmandu at night the previous day and then
basically had an all day bus ridefrom Katmandu to the base of the trek,
and then we just started off.Yeah that's rough. Yeah, I
did mind during the off season inDecember, and so there wasn't anyone around

(37:49):
and it was pretty much just meand my guide for six days. I'm
glad you said that because we missedthis question earlier about the time frame.
So everything that I've read about theseareas, it's like peak season is April
May, if I'm not mistaken.In an offseason, it's November December.
And that's not to say that's notto say that it was a cold Was

(38:10):
it cold? I mean it waspretty cold, but it wasn't unbearable.
I think the biggest thing was thedays were shorter, so you really had
to get a lot of hiking induring the daytime hours. And so what
were your motivations for doing this injust the trip? And then also the
hike, and also for selecting thistrail, like how did you choose this

(38:35):
particular trail? Honestly, I hada gap between jobs. I quit my
job, and one week later,or maybe the day I quit my job,
I booked a one way flight toIndia because I oftentimes don't have large
enough gaps to justify a trip outto India. So it had been I
think five years since I had beenpreviously. So when I quit my job

(38:59):
and booked that flight, I justthought, well, every time I go
out here, I only stayed withmy family. I have never been to
northern India because my family's in thesouth, and I have this dream of
going to that region and going somewhereelse other than my parents' house or my
family's house. So when I wasplanning the trip, I just thought,

(39:19):
Okay, I want to get toNepaul. Maybe I want to go to
Bhutan. I was talking to mydad about that, and then my dad
was like, now you know what, I don't think I'm gonna come.
You're on your own. And Istill had this idea of I want to
go somewhere close to India and experiencea Himalayas. How do I do that,
and so I had pushed out mystart date for my new job as
far as I could, So Ihad three weeks, so I split the

(39:43):
time halftime in India and then halfthe time in Nepal and literally like had
my last day on Friday, goneon a plane Saturday, flew out,
flew back on Sunday, started mynew job on a Monday. So really
maximized that time. Yeah, youdidn't waste any time at all. I
mean, you are an avid solotraveler slash hiker, but are there any

(40:04):
reservations about doing this type of tripon your own. I think the concern
of my family definitely added to someconcern for me. I didn't really feel
any trepidition about it when I wasplanning it myself. Literally was just sitting
in my aunt's house in Bangalore lookingup trips and looking up what can fit

(40:27):
my schedule and what's like reasonable elevationgain for that time period. So the
hike that I ended up picking wasjust something that, like pit the schedule
was accessible, had a view thatI wanted to see. It was a
great view of Everest, So thatwas like my thinking, oh, I'm
here, I want to go ona trip. This is a trip I

(40:49):
can do. Okay, great,these are just logistical things. And then
my aunt was asking me, soare you going with a group, Like
what's the deal here? Like youjust kind of go around with your backpack
and you just show up places andI don't really understand your life, and
so I was like, yeah,I love hiking, and this seems great,
and Nepaul is an amazing place.Like I didn't really have much more

(41:09):
thought than that. Right, Sometimesthose best trips, right, Yeah,
except when the morning of I hadto wake up at four o'clock to go
catch the bus to go to thebase of the hike, and I called
my dad to be like, hey, I'm I'm taking off, so I
don't know if I'm gonna have reception, but I'll let you know, but
just calling to say bye. Andhe's like, oh, yeah, well,

(41:30):
you know, I'm sure you'll makefriends in the group and I'm sure
it'll be a fun time. AndI said no, no, it's just
me and this guide and my dadfreaked out and he was very upset,
and I was like, Okay,well gotta go, and what is your
experience video with high elevation hiking priorto this this trip, I think the

(41:52):
highest I had gone before this wastwelve thousand feet, and the longest hike
I had ever done was thirty miles, which is three days in Yosemite.
So that the max and that highcool was about ten thousand feet. But
that gave me some good experience atgaining and losing and then gaining and losing
elevation, which was I think morevaluable than the twelve thousand feet. So

(42:17):
what stood out to you on thistrek? Like, you know what,
there's so many checks to choose fromin the Pall. I mean, you
know, we just talked about probablyone of the most famous ones, but
it is a you know, it'sgot a long history of trekking and its
culture. Actually, in fact,maybe this is a good time to talk
about this um to give some context, but which I have to bring up

(42:39):
right, seventy five percent of thetopography is mountainous in the Pall, so
you know, there's a long historyof the people living there having to walk
to transport goods and things, andyou know, for trade routes and stuff,
as the train is super rugged anddifficult, and you know, since

(43:00):
the nineteen twenties, or thirty.It became like a trekking mecca for like
world travelers because some British guy showedup there. But just to say that
I stayed in his room, Noway. Really what was his name again,
Sir Edmund Hillary, Sir ed Hillary. He's British, not not a
Kiwi. I think I think he'sit's always some British sworn he was in
New Zealand there that could be youknow, check New Zealand and Australia were

(43:24):
settled by British people prisoners. Yeah, yeah, no, And I know
that he was knighted by the Queenbecause of his accomplishment. But I mean
people in country correct can be knighted. So as SASKI is fact checking us
in real time, um, Imean the natural question is talk to us

(43:45):
about New Zealand. You are correct. We all learned something today. You're
welcome. I love how he justsat there and waited for her to google
it. He knew, so wedidn't all, oh yeah, I learned
something, but this man was like, oh I already know, Like what
are we googling? I'm obsessed withit. But so anyway, what I

(44:07):
was trying to say was, youknow, there are so many hikes to
choose from for this reason particularly,And so what was interesting and special or
not special or whatever about this trekin particular in your eyes? As I

(44:27):
mentioned, it was mostly a schedulingthing. I only had a week and
I wanted to maximize that time.Right. I don't mean like, sorry,
let me rephrase that, not inthe planning department, but like,
once you actually did it, likewhat stood out to you, Like what
was the experience? Like, Yeah, that was a really interesting experience because
of the isolation, the fact thatno one else was around I did.

(44:49):
I saw maybe two other sets ofhikers. Wow, the whole time in
six days. Yeah, I meta lot of tea house owners. Right,
I had a lot of dogs,but I did not see a lot
of people. And I think thatkind of gave it a lot of serenity.
And the trip really was about mejust kind of pushing myself, making

(45:14):
sure that I wasn't getting freaked outby the fact that it was getting dark.
And my guide, because of hisbroken English, would make these comments
about bandits being out in the dark, and I was like, these are
not comforting thoughts. Please, let'snot talk about the bandits. Did he
actually mean bandits or I think thathe meant like spirits, like there's like

(45:35):
spirits in the mountains, But thatmakes sense. Yeah, Napal is very
safe actually, So yeah, well, you know I have to ask alone
as a woman. I mean,your dad was nervous about it. How
did you feel about it? Especiallybecause your guide, I mean, I'm
assuming from this conversation was male.Yeah. No, he was really sweet

(45:55):
and really supportive. I'm a vegetarian, so he also made sure that when
the teahouse owners were cooking food thatthey would clean the utensils in between or
clean off the account and the cuttingboards. So he was very respectable and
considerate, and that came across.But I remember the first night that we

(46:16):
started, which is also funny.When we started, I was really had
a lot of energy. I wasmoving fast and he's like, oh,
you are fit, You're you know, you're you're really fit. And I
was like, yeah, yeah,we'll see. And then by the end
of that day he was just chuggingalong. I was huffing and puffing,
and he goes, your body isweak, true, but my spirit is

(46:39):
mighty. Yeah. But that firstnight, when you know, we we
passed guesthouse after guesthouse that were closedbecause it was off season, and I
started to get really concerned. We'rejust walking around the dark with this guy,
and so out of out of kindness, he like reaches out to grab
my hand and he's holding my handbecause I'm like near tears that we are,

(47:05):
like, we've been walking in thedark for a while, we've been
passing this house up to a guesthouse. I don't know where we're going to
stay. I'm starting to think,man, I really wish I were with
my boyfriend. I want to seemy cat, and like, I don't
know what's going on, and Iwas trying to hold it together. You
can see that I was starting toget stressed out, and so he grabbed
my hand, and I am nota very touchy person. I don't like
people touching my hands. So thatkind of like all started to compound and

(47:28):
made me feel a little uncomfortable.But then, you know, I saw
that he was being gentle. Andthen right after that, we like stumbled
upon a guesthouse and a guesthouse hada cat, and it just felt like,
you know, all those feelings kindof dissipated. Okay, wow,
very interesting. It's kind of freaky. But did you ask your guide how

(47:49):
many times has he accomplished this trailor done this trail? I think I
had asked him at some point andhe said some astronomical number, but like
fifty times he'd done these many trails, like he had just come off of
Mona Slow, which is another majorpeak. I think he'd done K two
a couple of times. So wow, yeah, wow, which for anyone

(48:10):
listening, K two is one ofthe deadliest mountains, number two next to
Annapurna. So I think it's likea one in three or one in four.
Diem, Oh, maybe he didn'tgo all the way to the top.
I need to look. I needto message him. I'm friends with
him on Facebook. I mean,well, John, you told me something
really interesting about mountains in general andversus Everest. That the reason why Everest

(48:35):
is not considered as dangerous as someof the other ones that you were talking
Can you explain, Yeah, youknow what I'm saying. I was talking
about how in the mountaineering community aK two or an Annapurnas Summit is even
though it's at a lower elevation thanEverest, which is the tallest that it's
considered more of a mountaineering achievement andrespected in that community versus Everest is of

(49:00):
how commercialized it's been. But butthat's you know, apples and oranges.
I would never attempt at K two. I would never attempt in Annaperna because
I love living. That's just toomuch risk. Yeah, and there's geographic
issues with K two, like accessibilityor like possibility for avalanches. Are cleared

(49:22):
lines, so there's a lot ofother you know, there's fixed year on
Everest as far as I understand,and so there's a lot of infrastructure alderly
in place for places that are alot more established, whereas K two just
has much fewer people traveling to it. And I think for a long time
that was because of political reasons.Right, Um, you would know more

(49:43):
about that than I would. UhNo, I don't. I don't.
I'm not sure at all, Butlike maybe it's too far. On the
Tibet side, there was some likerestriction around one of those mountains I remember
where they were really restricting travelers.But but as a result, there's not
a lot of infrastructure around and thefixed lines, especially as you get higher
up, are real safety measures.Yeah, sure. So I mean talking

(50:08):
about K two, what was yourK two on this track? I mean
we've already talked about, you know, like pretty much hiking in the dark,
but let's talk about the actual trail. What was the most difficult part
for you? Definitely getting to thesummit. The distance between the last guest
house before the summit and the summitis not that steep, but at that

(50:30):
elevation you're kind of moving slow.And I remember my guide was like,
I can carry your backpack, Ican help you out, and I was
like, no, I have tocarry my backpack. I gotta get to
the top. And of course,once you get to the top and you
acclimate, and you're like, whatwas I doing? This was not a
struggle at all. Right, Soyou actually carried your own backpack because,

(50:52):
right, because you didn't have aporter, you had a guide and same
with you, Chris, right,Yeah, which you know interesting because I
think a lot of people just sortof assume that, like you're hiking that
region of the world, oh,you're having someone carrying your stuff. Carrying
your own stuff really changes a hike. I mean I've done backpacking before.

(51:12):
What what would be a standard weightof pack do you guys remember your pack
weight? Mine should be thirty,but it's usually closer to thirty five pound.
I was going to say somewhere betweenthirty and forty and what like a
thirty forty leader. Mine was aboutsixty five. Sorry, double that sixty
leader. Yeah, and that sortof weight range. Every single pound makes

(51:35):
a difference, correct. I havespent many hours prior to backpacking trips like
looking through item in my back beinglike do I need these three packs of
hot cocoa? Yeah? There arefamous videos or like lots of videos of
people like ten tips to reduce yourpaid your paid wacking you're pack weight,

(51:55):
and like they'll be cutting their toothbrushlike two brushes in half so that they
don't have so much plastic. Butyou also don't want to be cut up
there without the right stuff, rightright, you know, I think it
was not required or like, butit was optional to bring crampons you're in
your walking on ice and stuff likethat, like like that's absolutely not like

(52:20):
that's that's a safety Yeah. Iactually cannot believe that that was an optional
item. I mean even in LosAngeles when Mount Baldy this past winter got
a bunch of snow and ice,and I did my first ever ascent in
like full winter. This is La. We're talking about ten k but it
was so iced up and doing itwithout crampons. The way that I got
back down was like periodically sliding downthe face of the mountain and like stopping

(52:45):
on like a log or a rock, like smashing mice. Didn't an experienced
hiker pass away there recently who hadhiked it many times and slipped and fell.
Don't you have to worry about thatcrampons? No, we didn't.
I didn't have any really severe weatherconditions. But when I was in Seattle
for Christmas this last year, therewas a massive storm and people were sliding

(53:08):
down their hills in front of theirhouse. So I mean, yeah,
it can be useful in many contexts. Yeah. And by the way,
did you need ice climbing equipment forthe hike up to base camp because I
know you need it for Everest?Yeah, I mean you needed I guess
you could consider crampons to fall intothat category. Yeah, I mean I
had, you know, hiking poles. I didn't have like a ice axe

(53:30):
or you know whatever those. Um, I never felt like you really needed
it. I would say, likesome like you're already bundled up with like
gloves and stuff, but like youknow, anybody that doesn't do it with
gloves that touches the ice, Imean so jagged. It's I feel like
you're asking for it. Um,but like it's that that type of stuff,

(53:51):
just bundling up. I would say, but you said something video that
surprises me. You said you didn'treally have terrible weather, and this is
December. How is that possible?I mean, isn't it isn't it winter?
I guess it was cold, butit wasn't impossibly cold. When I
was doing research for this episode.Also, one of the reasons why Nepal
is a great trekking place is actuallygreat weather. It's got great trekking weather

(54:15):
year round. That's fairly consistent,I think, as far as mountain ranges
go, which are like notoriously unpredictable. Yeah yeah, yeah, and Everest
has a window because of the highseverity, right, but Peaky Peak,
you know, you get caught insome snow, it's okay. Yeah.
By the way, so you mentioned, you know, there was not that

(54:37):
many people on the trail, ButI also read a little bit about the
trail you did, and it seemedlike it was quite remote. Like you
know, at first when you're lookingat it, there's images of sort of
a big town and stuff, butthen when you start reading it, it's
like, well, actually it's it'sa more remote trail and you know,
it's not like you're going past theshop you know every day. But were

(55:00):
there opportunities like to buy things andyou know, apart from the tea houses,
did you go through villages or yeah? How was how remote was it?
M I guess I never saw morethan like three buildings at a time,
so would definitely not describe it asa place that was you know,

(55:22):
you had a variety of options.You basically just showed up at the tea
house and that's what you're eating,and they oftentimes have goods that you can
purchase. But I think also becauseof the difficulty and the remoteness of those
areas, it's not like they carrya huge selection and predominantly it's food,
so right, hence packing well beingany issues being a vegetarian there, Like,

(55:45):
was there ever a concern from yourperspective like that I might not be
able to get a vegetarian meal?Actually, I feel like because in Naple
and India are so similar. Yeah, there is a huge support for vegetarians,
and so you know, as youmentioned, dollbot is basically like the
meal you eat. Yeah, youeat that for every meal. I love

(56:06):
doll Very easy to make that vegetarianand it's very protein heavy. So I
wasn't really concerned about it just becauseof the like similarity between Indian and Nepali
cuisine. That and yeah, nowI was gonna say, Chris, did
you read my notes? Did youread our notes? But go ahead,
Okay, well that's exactly what Iwas going to ask you about next.
I mean, you're from India oryou're Indian, but you're from America.

(56:28):
You're born in America, Indian descent, Indian descent, thank you. Okay,
you're of Indian descent, but youwere born in America. And Nepal
is obviously very close to India bothculturally and geographically. So what was that
like experiencing that culture? Did youfeel connected to it in any way?
Or you know I've said this toyou before, to John before, but
um, the funny thing about beingan Indian American in Nepal is that Indians

(56:55):
are already considered kind of like thecousins of Nepal, and they already see
us as kind of one of them. So I actually felt more accepted by
the Nepali people because of my likenon traditionally Indian background. Then sometimes I
felt by Indians because Indians would say, well, you're not one of us,

(57:16):
You're an American Indian, You're you'rean American, you know. But
then in Nepal they're like, well, you're not one of us, duh,
but you're like close enough. SoI felt very I mean, on
top of the fact that Nepali peopleare just known for being very warm and
welcoming, not that Indians aren't aswell, but it's kind of a different
story when you are Indian and youcan hear what they're saying about you because

(57:39):
you understand the language and there's expectationson you based on how you look and
how you should be acting. SoI almost felt like in Nepal it was
actually somewhat more accepting of the factthat I was not traditionally Indian and they
just all kind of looked out forme like I was one of them,

(58:00):
but knowing of course that I couldn'tunderstand what they were saying. Cool.
On my end, I'm going toask you the same, you know,
to kind of wrap this up,at least on my end. I have
a question that I asked Chris,and I want to ask you what was
it like? Not to get toometa, but what was it like to
view Mount Everest. It's funny becauseof view from the Peakie Peak Summit is

(58:25):
just all the mountains. You cansee pretty much all of the major mountains
in that region. Wow, Everestdoes not look very prominent. It just
looks like another peak. It's marginallytaller. Actually, I think it may
have been shorter because of the perspective, because some of the mountains that are
closer looked taller. Right, SoEverest was kind of underwhelming from that perspective,

(58:49):
But it was cool to be likethat over there is Everest. There
were a lot of other eight thousandplus meter eight thousand meters. It was
high peaks that you could see muchcloser that were much more impressive. Is
there one that stood out? MM? You know the range that Everest

(59:14):
is in the grouping of mountains inthat region. The grouping was impressive because
you you look and you say,wow, those are all just some of
the highest mountains in the world,and they're all just there, like right
next to each other. Like itlooks kind of surreal to think, Wow,

(59:34):
I'm looking at all the tallest peaksin the world, Like that's cool,
that's very high land. Yeah,because if you're on it, you
can't really see it in a waythat's kind of but you get that perspective
when you're flying in I don't knowif I mean, you're just surrounded by
these giants. That's what I thoughtwas so incredible. It's like, yeah,
you get close to it, butlike to see it to your point.

(59:57):
From that vantage point, you're justlike it is literally the entire area
of these huge giants. I don'tknow about you, Saskia, but they've
convinced me even more than I needto go. All right, do we
have time for one more question?Do you think a little closing out question?
All right, So I want toend this episode by asking a couple
questions that I like to ask toclose out episodes. You know, we're

(01:00:21):
a travel podcast. We talk alot about how travel can you know,
be life changing in or you know, in any small or big way.
And so did these trips, youknow, mark your life in any way.
Did they change your perspective in anyway, and what were your takeaways
from them? If so? Youknow, M I think in my case,

(01:00:42):
I've done a lot of solo travel, and so the solo part of
it, well, I guess Iwas with a guide, but the semi
solo part of it was not asmonumental to me. But I think what
really made me motivated by the stripwas one, I should exercise more before
I do trips like this, Sothat's I think I would have had a

(01:01:04):
much better time if I had exercise. But secondly, is sort of the
idea that mountaineering or being in thesekind of remote mountainous regions is something that
really does like drive my soul.And I was living in Austin at the
time and definitely was missing the mountains, and it became very clear to me

(01:01:25):
that my happy places in the mountains. So moving back to the Bay soon
and we'll be in the mountains again. Yea, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I would say that's a that's avery hard question, but I would
I would agree. I think thatthat's where you find like that extra gear

(01:01:49):
that you have to go a littlebit more when you haven't really approached that,
and also realizing too to a certainextent, that there's only so much
planning you can do right. Youcan have everything mapped out understand from a
oh, yeah, this is theelevation and things like that, but once
you're there, like you're there,you're in the moment and whatever fears that
you have, Like for me,I'm really not a fan of heights,

(01:02:12):
but yet I put myself in thesesituations all the time. But like when
you're on these cliffs things like thatthat are really high up, you realize
that in the moment that there's noother option besides going up and dealing with
whatever it is and just moving on, and your focus is more around okay,
one foot in front of the otherversus, wow, that's a big
steep, sheer side of the wallthat you're you know, could potentially fall

(01:02:35):
off of. You know, you'rejust not focused in on that. So
I think it just brings into acertain perspective of like you can look at
something right and so you're actually onthe mountain or there, like it might
look scary, but in reality,like when you're there in the moment,
you don't even think about it.And I think it's a it's a very
interesting perspective. But to both ofyou, I say well said, and

(01:02:58):
thank you for being guests on thepodcast. I know that our listeners are
going to enjoy this and very quickly. If our listeners want to know a
little bit more about you and yourpersonal adventures, where can they find you?
Technically all my accounts are prior Yeah, yeah, then never mind.
I usually asked that question before.Um, do you have a public thing
or like, it's fine if youdon't private live? Yeah, I think

(01:03:22):
I mean mine's private, but I'mmore than happy to open it up.
Um but at C Meyer, ME y r Underscore for one er Perfect
and where can they find us?Saskia? You can find us on Instagram
at Globetrotters Podcast, at on Facebookat Globetrotters Podcast, on Twitter at globetrot

(01:03:45):
pod, and at our website wwwdot GTS podcast dot com. Thanks for
listening, Foo,