June 28, 2023 • 47 mins
Not all travel is about leisure tourism, Amy Forsythe served as a combat correspondent post 9/11 and committed to two-year long deployments in Iraq and 3 separate tours in Afghanistan. She is an award-winning multimedia journalist and military combat veteran with more than 28 years of experience. Amy takes us through her journey on being a trailblazer and one of the first females in military history to take on this type of role.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
You're listening to the Globetrotters Podcasts,the show dedicated to bringing you fresh and
diverse perspectives from traveling enthusiasts all overthe world. Here at the Globetrotters Podcast,
we hope to show that travel isso much more than how it's represented
on social media and television. Brybringing you real stories, thoughtful discussions on
ethical issues, and investigations into howyou can make the most of an adventure
(00:36):
without breaking the bank. So ifyou're listening to this episode right now,
go ahead and leave us a reviewon the streaming platform of your choice,
or feel free to drop us amessage on our Instagram at Globetrotters podcast or
on our website at www dot gtspodcast dot com. We always appreciate the
feedback. I'm your co host Jonathano'deo and I'm sask you Hatvanny, And
(00:58):
today we have a have another kindof journalist on the show. Amy Forsyth
is a military journalist. She startedher career as a combat correspondent with the
United States Marines and is now apublic affairs officer in the US Reserve.
She has served five combat tours inIraq and Afghanistan and all around the world.
(01:19):
Combat correspondents are essentially frontline reporters whodocument the experience and relay it to
various media outlets around the world.If you didn't know that already. So
we'll be delving into this career pathwhat it's like. So Amy, thank
you for being on the show.Oh, thank you for having me.
It's wonderful to join you today totalk about some of those things you mentioned
about travel and a career in themilitary. Yes, And did I get
(01:44):
all of your titles correct? Iwas hoping I would because there's a lot
of different ones, and I noticeda lot of different ways of sort of
talking about what you do. Right, that's right. I'm in the Navy
Reserves as well as working for theMarine Corps as a civilian, so I'm
kind of wearing two hats, butwith one mission, and that's to tell
the story of our military members.And before we get into it, I
(02:07):
just want to say, you know, not only thank you for your time,
but thank you for your service.Oh well, thank you. It's
been a wonderful career. I neverintended to make it this far. With
every new assignment brings a re energizedenthusiasm for telling the stories and making an
impact on military people and their families. Yes, so, I mean this
(02:30):
is such a fascinating career and onethat we don't often get the chance to
hear about. I think, evenme as someone who studied journalism, right,
I mean, people who listen tothis podcast will already know this about
me because I bang on about itall the time. But I have to
admit that I wasn't really exposed tothat career opportunity. So I find it
very interesting. And I want tostart by talking about how you even got
(02:53):
into this job, because you know, it might seem a little o secure
to a lot of people. Youwere rolled in the Marines when you were
young, and you were a TVstation reporter based in San Diego, right,
so take us from there. Howdid you end up with the job
and what was your first assignment?Yeah? Well, I was born and
raised in Santa Rosa, California,just north of San Francisco, and I
(03:16):
was always interested in journalism and photography. I was on the yearbook staff at
my high school, but I reallywasn't sure exactly what direction I wanted to
go. I wanted to work inpublic affairs, or public relations. And
I really wasn't bound for college.I wasn't dedicated enough to go to college
at that time. And when Istarted meeting marines, and I got interested
(03:39):
in that. And you know,through our lives, you've seen images about
the Marine Corps, the Eagle globeand anchor, the symbol, the billboards,
the movies, the famous photo ofthe flag raising at Mount Sarabachi during
World War Two, that black andwhite photo. We've all been imprinted with
(03:59):
images and legacy of the Marine Corps. I thought, I want to do
that, and then I met somemarines. They said you can do that
too. I said me, asa woman, I could, And so
I chased down the recruiters and reallywanted to join, and they kind of
put me off and put me offand put me off because recruiting women,
really back then in the late eightiesand early nineties wasn't something that they were
(04:21):
pursuing. But I was persistent.I got a slot, a very coveted
slots, as what they called backthen, a combat correspondent. And so
I had no idea really what itdid. What they did except take photos,
tell stories, and be involved incommunity engagement, community relations and setting
(04:43):
up events like our fleet weeks aroundthe country, like in San Francisco and
New York City. They have bigevents and they're meant to recruit and inspire
patriotism and just showcase what the militaryhas to offer. And so those combination
of led me to join the Marines, and I got the job that I
wanted. Oftentimes recruiters don't make thathappen, but they did. Took an
(05:08):
English diagnostic test, and I knewhow to type, and so I was
a perfect fit for that role.Went off to boot camp at Parris Island,
South Carolina, and went on tothe military's Defense Information School, and
it's really a premier training ground forjournalists military journalists at Fort me and Maryland.
(05:29):
It rivals any journalism school or programin the country. And got a
top notch education in journalism and that'severything related from writing, photography, videography,
radio, I mean learning ape style, writing stories, editing video,
editing radio reports. And back thenwe did it on tape. They've since
(05:51):
moved obviously to digital and nonlinear,and so some really great training pipeline.
And then onto my first duty station, which was at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
So I was very blessed with agreat They considered it overseas deployment,
overseas tour right out of the gate, before you know, we kind of
dive into your first assignment. Weare a travel show. So I don't
(06:15):
want to ask this question how muchexperience did you have traveling, because I
think it's fair to say that mostbranches of the military involved quite a bit
of travel or relocation. And Ithink that's the lure of the military for
a lot of people, is thatadventure seeking people who want to see the
world. Even some of the slogansthe Navy slogans like it's not just a
(06:39):
job, and it's an adventure,and you know, the Marines, they
just are known for an expeditious warfare, going in overseas somewhere to help with
humanitarian disaster or fighting wars, doinga series of different type of skill sets,
whether it's evacuating hostages from a remotelocation, just some of these basic
(07:00):
core competencies of the Navy, theMarine Corps, of the Army, Air
Force. So I was drawn tothat to your question, though I hadn't
really done much traveling. I traveledwithin California. I did a couple of
trips to maybe New York. Iwent to Montana, but other than that,
I didn't have a passport. Ididn't and I only went to Mexico
(07:25):
once with my family, just toTijuana and then a place called Rosarito Beach,
so just south of the border.Back then you didn't need a passport,
and so I did not have apassport. So I was just really
open to anything, anything that wouldcome my way. I didn't want to
put any limitations, so I wasreally excited for these travel opportunities. And
(07:48):
so let me get this straight,though, before you went to this military
journalism school, you had already beenworking as a reporter. Right you were
in your late twenties, you wereworking in San Diego as a television reporter.
But before then you had been enrolledin the military when you were younger.
Correct, So I joined the Marineswhen I was twenty two. I
had worked in public affairs public relationsfor a company, and then worked in
(08:13):
community engagement at a local gym whereI worked as a lifeguard and taught swimming
lessons, but I was kind oftheir outreach coordinator. I joined the Marines,
and I served eight years on activeduty, working in journalism, and
then I left active duty and thenI worked in TV. So a career
in the military really set me upfor success. I walked right into it.
(08:37):
They knew my training, they knewmy experience, and started working in
TV, and so it was agreat way to enter the field. With
having that experience and the training pipeline. In between deployments, I was always
kind of coming back and forth anddeployed, and so when I was deployed,
I was sending them back my reports. I would cover things and then
(08:58):
they would air it, and thenI go back to work when I came
home, and then get deployed again. So I was very lucky to have
an employer that was supportive of mydeployments. And then they also benefited because
they got direct reporting straight from Iraqand Afghanistan at the height of combat operations
there and focused on in Diego basedMarines I was covering, and then they
(09:20):
were always very gracious to air thosereports for me, and then they get
coverage that they wouldn't otherwise have.If I'm not mistaken, you've done five
tours abroad, correct, five combattours, many other missions overseas, two
year long deployments in Iraq, andthen three separate tours in Afghanistan since nine
(09:41):
to eleven. And maybe this isan important point to start, if you
could explain for our listeners what thedifference is between just doing a combat tour
versus other humanitarian work and how thatplays a role in your first deployment in
the Middle East. So, myfirst deployment to Afghanistan was just it was
in two thousand and two two thousandand three time frames, so it was
(10:03):
just after nine to eleven. AndI know, for your listeners out there,
if you can recall and think backto where you were or what you
were thinking about in nine to eleven, you guys were probably just young babies
because they're so young, and notin a bad way. I remember where
I was and listening to the newsand watching it happen in real time.
It'll forever being grained in my mind. Yeah, same, seven years old,
(10:26):
and I remember, oh wow,okay, So you remember, you
know at the time, the countrywas just you know, an awe struck,
and so I knew it was justa matter of time before I was
going to get mobilized to active duty. I already served my active duty time.
I was a veteran going to collegeworking in TV, and I got
mobilized to active duty and so shippedoff to Afghanistan. As in the very
(10:50):
early days, so I hadn't hadthis big build up, and I was
still sort of safe in Afghanistan,and so I really got a sense of
what the country was like with thepeople were like we were able to go
out and eat food and sort ofreally enjoy the environment without the fear of
being attacked. So luckily that wasthe case, you know, through the
(11:11):
years. Then i'd come home,I got mobilized back to Iraq, and
then again to Iraq, and thentwo subsequent tours to Afghanistan. So I've
seen the progression of how our forces, you know, we're operating in Afghanistan
in different capacities and then an Iraqas well, and so just that stringing
that together kind of blurred. IfI didn't have photos, it would be
(11:33):
a big blur to me, becausewhile the cultures are vastly different and the
people are vastly different there, thelandscape is different. Everything is different.
To Americans or other people who don'tknow, it may seem the same Iraq,
Afghanistan, it's all the same.But what I wasn't prepared for when
I went there was not knowing,well, what's the difference between that,
So, but being a journalist inthe military, I got a front row
(11:56):
seat to see the engagements, theactivity, and meet with locals and go
out with locals and really work withmy counterparts any Rock and Afghanistan. So
I had media counterparts that were eithercivilians or in the military, So it
was a really great way to learnmore about what we were doing there.
Instead of being, you know,some of them, our military members were
(12:18):
just kind of stuck back at thebase doing their jobs every day and didn't
really get a chance to have interactionsand direct engagement with local people. And
you know, I've even gotten invitedto go to their homes and inside where
they live, and restaurants and differentplaces. So it really was curious enough
and spend as much time as Icould immersed to try to learn and that
(12:41):
would make me a better journalist anda better understanding of what was really going
on. And how much did youknow about these regions before you went?
Not much, not much because theinternet was kind of hard to find good
accurate information back then. In twothree, there really wasn't a lot out
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there viable sources of information, especiallyAfghanistan because it had been locked down for
so many years and not a lotof Western travel going through their writers and
reporters and books and things, soIraq a little bit different. We got
some pre deployment training, some insightswhat to expect, but not so much
(13:24):
on the culture or the language unfortunately. So really if you wanted to learn
more, you really had to askpeople and go and experience it. That's
my one biggest regret is not beingable to learn more about the geography,
the history, not just in thepast ten years, but you know,
going back one hundred, two hundredyears and some of these legacy you know,
(13:46):
the Cradle of Civilization and Genghis Khanand you know the Silk Road.
There were some really key, obviouslyhistoric events that happened that I didn't really
know that much about prior to going. I wished I would, and that
was the one thing that I wouldhave done more of research. Speaking,
you know, of the culture shockas a Westerner, you know, you
(14:09):
talked on some of the things thatyou wish you would have known through the
lens of a war correspondent. Whatabout just a everyday traveler who is going
out to these countries, what shouldthey I don't want to say expect,
but what are some guidelines that youwould advise for them to look into,
even if it's just a tire introductions, how you interact with the locals.
(14:31):
I feel that those travelers and journalistsand visitors to Iraq and Afghanistan the very
brave people, because you know,state departmental post warnings or different things.
So going to Iraq, there's alot of research out there. And I
always thought when I was in Iraq, I said, one day I'm going
to come back as a traveler andgo back and walk the steps where I
(14:54):
was in places like Felujah and Ramadiand Ambar province some of the toughest in
the world, basically where the hottest, most dangerous combat operations were in the
country of Iraq. I thought,one day, it'll be my hope that
the conditions will be such that Ican go back and visit. But I
do think that Iraq is in amuch better place now. You don't hear
(15:18):
much about it in the news,so hopefully things have been restored, that
there's a functioning government and that thepeople there are able to live in peace
and without fear of insurgency or combatoperations. So in Afghanistan's a little bit
different situation, as you know,back in August twenty twenty one, where
(15:39):
we had pulled out of our troops, our remaining forces, and that now
the Taliban is in place as thegovernment functioning government there, sort of,
I wouldn't advise people travel there,although I do know of Westerners Americans who
have traveled there, who have business, who had businesses there, who had
(16:00):
business associates there, who traveled theresafely. So I guess it just depends
on the amount of risk that youwant to take. But you definitely as
we see all the time, Americansor foreign travelers go to a country and
they get themselves either arrested or takenhostage, so they realize people going there
(16:22):
they have to be aware of thedangers that go with it. So if
you're taken hostage, that the USgovernment does not pay ransom, and you
know not that you're on your own, but you do assume some of those
risks, whether you're on assignment,working or as a traveler, and so
knowing that you have to be awareof the situation, now me as a
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military member, it's a different adifferent situation entirely. If a military member
will getting more to take, betaken hostage or captive, there's certain rules
and regulations that me as a members, as member uniform member, that I
have to abide by, and asa combatant, And if it's a combatant
(17:06):
situation, then there's certain legalities thatwe have to know in order to the
Code of conduct is what's that's calledto. If you remember, in Vietnam
we had some hundreds thousands of prisonersof war, just like in World War
Two, taken captive and hostage,and so there's certain rules and guidelines that
guide us to life preservation in wartime. You send us a bunch of pictures
(17:30):
of many of your different tours,and looking through them, I found it
very interesting that, you know,some of these pictures are just dressed a
normal civilian attire, like standing infront of a you know, a mosque
or a building or on a street, and others you're completely armed, like
to the teeth, helmet, youknow, bulletproof vest I find that contrast
(17:52):
really interesting, you know, especiallyI'll refer to one picture in particular in
Ramadi with two women and I wouldlove it if you could give us some
background on that image in particular,and also just about this contrast of you
know, how much were you ableto just sort of walk around as a
civilian and how much were you sortof, you know, dressed as a
(18:15):
military personnel. So the picture youwere referencing is me while I was on
patrol in Ramadi in two thousand andsix and some of the height of the
combat operations there, I was taggingalong with a combat infantry squad while they
were on a foot patrol, goingfrom house to house in a village that
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had been infiltrated by insurgents. Andso this was some of the early days
of discovering how women at war canbe of greater impact. And so me
with my camera on one hand andmy gun and rifle in the other hand,
on patrol, documenting this foot patrolthat I was on, and so
(18:57):
going into these houses where the malemarines or male soldiers would often separate the
men and the women. Then becauseI was there and they saw that I
was a woman, somehow they couldsee my eyes, my hair sticking out
underneath the helmet, that I wasa woman, and so they brought them
into a room, and they said, come with us over to the kitchen,
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and so starting to try to tellme things about what was going on
because they were not able to goand tell the male marines. And so
what this developed into was an ideathat females can do engagement with other women
out on patrol, and later thatbecame called the female Engagement teams and then
(19:44):
the cultural support teams. And sowhat we learned in Muslim culture especially is
that women in the house always knowwhere the bad guy is. They have
the intelligence, they know what's goingon, but oftentimes are not allowed to
say it to the people. Theintel officers coming to gather information, and
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so they're afraid to speak to anotherman. They're not allowed to see and
how to be seen by another man. So once we realized this, we
started developing female marine teams that wouldgo and partner with the foot patrol or
going into a situation, and werealized that women in uniform our troops could
(20:26):
better gain the access to these womento gain information. And so the women
of the house were always often verywelcoming to me and arry come with us
in the kitchen. And so Ilearned that that was a step and a
foothold into this idea that women couldbe of value in war. And this
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was before women were allowed to servingcombat roles or technically not allowed to be
on frontlines and combat situations, andso the law didn't change until two thousand
thirteen, and so as a resultof some of these engagements that we were
having on the front lines, thelaw didn't catch up until years later.
(21:10):
Very interesting. I had no ideayou're a trailblazering I was just doing my
job and realize, like, there'ssomething going on here that's very unique to
this culture. Maybe there's a way. And as a follow up to Saskia's
question, I think for most peoplethat are outside of this world, you
hear war correspondent, and I thinkthe first few thoughts that they might have
(21:32):
or images that are playing in theirhead is that, you know, you're
going with the military, kicking downdoors and just engaging with enemy combatants.
Is it fair to say that thisis a mischaracterization of the other aspects of
your role or your job. Canyou touch on those a little bit more?
Well? Thanks, You know,that is the image that you see,
and that's the SoundBite or the clipthat you might see on TV.
(21:55):
But oftentimes the day to day andmost of the day is there was just
the strong, steady state of goingfrom village to village or house to house,
just looking for information, trying toprocess the situation. And so my
role was capturing the military in whatthey were doing on operations, whether it
(22:18):
was a convoy or screening members localcitizens, doing a town hall type thing,
working with their local government, workingalso training the say the Iraqi policeman,
the Iraqi Army, the Afghan Army, the Afghan policeman. Those day
to day interactions. My job wasto document. But what we were finding
(22:42):
is that because it was such adangerous situation as that the international media we're
not going to send their reporters tothe front lines anymore because it just was
two dangers. They couldn't run therisk of reporters getting killed or injured.
And we had several high visibility ordersgetting killed and injured in combat operations.
(23:04):
Kimberly Dozier is one of them.Bob Woodruffe was one of them, some
names that you may have heard.So it was up to me and my
teams to go out and collect theimagery in the video and the soundbites,
the b roll the contents the elementsto send back up through satellite every night
so that the news stations could pullthat down and then run that for their
(23:29):
reporting. So a lot of thefootage that you see was often taken by
me or someone like me out therecollecting the images, and so we had
to be We knew we had tobe at the right place at the right
time in order to get the contentand then send that up to the satellite
link and then the stations would pullthat down. Just incredible. Yeah,
and you know, I have toask this question because I'm a journalist nerd
(23:52):
like ethics nerd, right, Andit shakes me as a very unique journalistic
position. To be covering an organizationthat you're working for like that is very
unusual. It would be like theNew York Times covering the New York Times
work. And so can you talkabout that a little bit and what were
the ethics unique to your situation becauseit almost strikes me as like a more
(24:15):
of a public relations position, ButI could be totally wrong, So I'd
love to hear what you think aboutthat. Yes, you are definitely on
the right track there. So asa military journalist, our job really is
to cover and document the work that'sgoing on with our service members. Now,
having said that, we're not theones doing the foias, the Freedom
(24:41):
of Information Act, the research,the gotchas, the you know these tough,
hard hitting articles exposing you know,fraud, waste interviews. So really
our job is to document one andwhat's going on for the commanders to see
what's going on in the battle field. If they say, I need pictures
(25:02):
of this base camp setup, sowe'll bring that back and take that to
the commander and say here's what itlooks like, here's the layout, and
do kind of a storyboard for theinternal use of the command now, documenting
the footage and providing captions for anymedia to put up. And we have
a service called the Defense Video ImageryDistribution System. It's called VIVIDS. It's
(25:26):
basically an archive storage portal where peoplecan pull down information. But you're right,
there is a fine line between coveringand as a journalist and documenting.
So as documenting and covering it forour internal purposes, we're looking for those
good news stories. We're looking foropportunities to highlight our service members. So
(25:48):
it's a little bit of a differentflavor the techniques and the tactics are all
kind of the same as far asgood photos, good stories, proper ap
style, right to a journalistic standardthat any media could also use, and
so on the flip side of thatcoin, a lot of our job and
my job was also coordinating for media, for civilian media outside media to come
(26:14):
and cover, so setting up aninbed, helping them get the research,
doing the research. Like if amedia person says, I want to interview
soldiers from Texas about their experience inAfghanistan, well, then I have to
someone like me would go in research. Kay, I need to vet and
look at who's from Texas. Dothey make good partners to set up for
(26:37):
an interview, do the media preparationtraining, make sure they have confidence in
what they're saying. Also working withthe commanders to do a media role playing
to make sure that they're comfortable totalk to the media. So our role
is not only to cover combat operationsand provide the footage for use, but
also to work with the media forwhen we get those media requests. So
(27:02):
you're right, we're not going tobe covering the military as if a civilian
journalist from the USA Today or WallStreet journal in New York Times is their
angles and their methods are a littlebit different than what we would do.
But back in the day we usedto have based newspapers, we would have
based TV stations, so we coverthe good news stories, but we also
(27:23):
make marines and service members available formedia interviews with civilian media. It's definitely
a unique position. I think sometimesthe words like journalists, public relations officer,
that they're used interchangeably, and youknow, they don't always mean the
same thing. So I'm glad wetouched on that. Yes, thank you
for that clarification. And with therecent convergence, I say in the last
(27:48):
ten years of converging, large organizationsoften have their own internal communications department where
they would cover stories about their employees, do employee spotlights, or do connect
with the media and help find theright person to talk to obviously to shine
a light on their highlights and findthe best spokespeople for certain aspects of their
(28:14):
organization. So there's a lot ofthat going on too, but a wide
variety of different skill sets. Somilitary, say, military journalists and people
that work in public affairs often getout and they can go and work in
any large organization working in the mediaas journalists, and many of my colleagues
have gone on to work in toptwenty market TV stations, radio working as
(28:37):
print journalists, and so it's agreat launch pad for those people who want
to move into journalism and amy.I think anyone that's listening to this podcast,
they're going to listen to what youhave to say. And you're incredibly
eloquent. You're passionate about what youdo. And one aspect that I want
to focus on too, is thehumanity aspect of your job. Because you
did mention how you are working withlocals, you are trying to build the
(29:02):
community in these cities that you're workingin. I want to ask you,
does it ever get difficult the joband you know on the personal level what
you want to be able to dofor these people, do the lines blur,
you know, getting so wrapped upin let's say, for example,
in Afghanistan, I often had theopportunity to coordinate and then go to these
(29:25):
orphanages out in town and so beingso moved by these children's stories, orphans
of war and the tough life thatthey would have, so a lot of
our outreach. We could also asservice members get the opportunity to go out
in town and bring items like toysand books and donated items that troops would
(29:48):
get sent from home. They'd say, Mom, Dad, send me,
send me toys and stuffed animals andbooks, and we're going to go make
a donation out to the local orphanage, the Red Crescent orphanages. These were
just our ways of helping show thatwe cared about the people. So I
always try to help people understand itstress that we were never at war with
(30:10):
the Iraqi people, we were neverat war with the Afghan people. Some
of those stories are just so heartbreaking, but it was very uplifting to go
and be able to go off baseand not for the purpose of combat operations,
but to deliver, deliver on ourcommitment to helping the people with whether
it was rebuilding a school or buildinga hospital and delivering goods to an orphanage.
(30:37):
And so in that you really getcommitted. You're committed to the mission,
and when you get to play withkids and just restores your hope in
humanity and that they hopefully if theyremember nothing about Americans, is that one
day or that a bunch of peoplebrought us some toys that that would be
(30:57):
our lasting legacy to them, thatthat's something that they can remember forever,
and so getting emotionally connected to thekids there, and so it was just
such a great opportunity, not justfor me, but for when I would
get troops, say frontline troops tosay, let's take a day off,
(31:17):
well, let's bring you into theorphanage and then they would just have a
nice a mental break from the stressand being able to play with the kids
really meant a lot to them.And so creating these opportunities for them to
go out and do something good forthe locals, it really helped their mental
health and help them understand that notall Afghans or not all Iraqis are bad
(31:41):
people, is what they would tendto start believing, because that's who they
were fighting, is insurgencies. Andso creating those experiences as part of our
job too, and then being ableto document that and share that with their
families. They would send stories orpictures home of them not just all kidded
up with guns and big weapons,but that they actually got a chance to
(32:07):
go eye to eye and on thesame level with some kids in an orphanage.
So staying on this region for alittle longer, just because it's fascinating,
you know. I think a lotof people hear about this region of
the world basically through war and conflict. So I'd love to talk about,
you know, your experiences of theculture there, and especially coming in with
(32:30):
almost no knowledge. Like you said, what struck you about the culture and
what would you like to share topeople who you know have never been and
might never go about the culture inthis region. Well, honestly, yeah,
I didn't know much about the Afghanculture when I first went there,
but when working with their media,working with their leaders in their government at
(32:50):
the time my first deployment in twothousand and three, I was just really
struck by we're all more alike thanwe are different, and I didn't know
what to expect, and I wasa little bit of fear. But once
I realized that working with their journalistsis that they have the same struggles and
the same deadlines and the same desireto do a good job as we do
(33:13):
and helping inform our people, ouraudiences, our soldiers, sailors, aramond
and marines, that people are thesame no matter where you go, and
the history in Afghanistan is just soamazing, and they're very proud. They
are very proud of their history thereand the beautiful landscape that is Afghanistan.
(33:35):
They love flowers, they love plantingroses, believe it or not, and
their music and the food. They'rejust so passionate about that. So those
are the things that I took awaythat I remember about just the fascinating culture,
but that it really hasn't been exploredthat much in Afghanistan. It's been
(33:57):
very shut off geographically. It's hardto get to because you're surrounded by the
Hindu Kush Mountain range, and sothat's why it's just been so shut in
because it is very difficult to getin and out of there. You almost
can't drive because the pass. There'sa pass there that during the winter it
snows over and you just really can'tdrive it. But it has just such
(34:21):
a fascinating history and so anybody whogets a chance to go there. Hopefully
one day it'll be more permissive,but for now, there's so much on
the internet to learn about, butthe culture, the food, and many
people that can go there. Eventhough we were there during very dangerous times,
there was still a chance to interactwith people. Luckily, to get
(34:45):
that kind of flavor and understand whatthey're going through as well. It's very
hard and working with my counterparts therein Afghanistan, whether it was the media
or Afghan soldiers there is that whenit was always time to come home and
leave and get ready to redeploy tocome back to America, the sadness that
(35:06):
most people felt, you know,myself included was that I know, I
get to come home. However,the people left here, this is their
home and they're they're still stuck there. They're still there, and they're just
as you saw in August twenty twentyone, the desperation to leave as they
(35:27):
were hanging from the planes at theKabul International Airport for example, just so
heartbreaking. And so my hope isis that one day they you know,
they modernize or you know, changetheir ability to get put into the fold
of the bigger, larger world outthere. And so as we're progressing in
(35:49):
terms of technology and advancement and mobility, while the people in Afghanistan has sort
of remained at this You can goback two thousand years, nothing changed.
So there's people who like literally livein a cave in the side of a
mountain, chickens running around on theirdirt floors or sleeping on a dirt floor.
It was stepping back two thousand yearsand that was fascinating for me.
(36:13):
And you know, before we runout of time here and I do want
to talk about your book. Justone last question. Earlier in the episode,
I said you're a trailblazer, whichyou are. What advice would you
give to someone who wants to followin your footsteps and become a combat correspondent
or public affairs officer. Well,these two career paths have led to amazing
(36:35):
experiences for me, and I justreally could not ask for a better career
with more opportunities. And the fielditself is filled with smart, educated,
curious people. So if you wantto surround yourself with really creative, ambitious,
(36:55):
dynamic people, that is definitely thecareer field to choose. No two
days are ever the same. Forsome people. That's a good thing.
Some people don't like that, butit definitely keeps you on your toes.
My advice to someone looking at acareer in the military, and if you're
creative and you enjoy people, youhave to be a people person. You
(37:19):
have to love telling people's stories.That's definitely one of the best ways to
do that and see the world andreally take your career to the next level.
If it's something you want to do, go for it. It is
opened up so many doors, andso my priority now now that I've served
more than thirty years in uniform totalservice time, I'm trying to open as
(37:43):
many doors for as many people aspossible and encourage people to consider it.
Whether you want to be an enlistedmember where you really get your hands on
the camera and the writing and thevideography and the graphic design and really just
a breadth of ways to tell storiesnow that there's so many ways to do
that, or if you already haveyour bachelor's degree and you want to become
(38:04):
an officer and you love people andyou want to work with the media and
really be the interface between sharing thestories of our services with that of a
larger population, that's also another routethat you can go. But it really
has been an amazing journey filled withtravel and meeting people from all different cultures
(38:25):
and serving with some of the bestpeople who care about our country and who
are inspired by patriotism. Legacy ofnine to eleven and then beyond but the
people of today have some really complicatedproblems and challenges ahead, and we need
as many people who want to dothe job, who want to wear that
(38:46):
uniform and represent the represent America onthe world stage. That is definitely a
place for them. And I'll tellyou, being deployed and working overseas in
places like paul In, Romania,Sri Lanka, Malaysia, you kind of
feel like a mini ambassador because whileyou're in uniform or out of uniform,
(39:07):
people know you as an American andyou're there to represent America and that might
be the only impression that they have. And so when you can humanize it
and put a face and a handshaketogether for someone who's never met an American,
it really means so much. Andso and we're taught to, you
(39:27):
know, take that as serious aspossible, because we're representing the country,
not just our branch of service ormyself, but we're really representing our country
in the best possible light. Yeah, and I know it's not on the
same level as what you're describing,but this is why whenever I go abroad,
I try to portray myself in thebest light as possible, because you
know, there are these stereotypes ofthe ugly American or the entitled American.
(39:52):
And I do my best to youknow, shy away from them and give
other people. Yeah, give people, not not physically, but I do
try to portray myself, as yousaid, as an ambassador for this country.
Yes, thank you, and youknow for travelers out there, representing
yourself but your country as well,and so that can have a lasting impact.
(40:15):
And so I think we all feelbetter when we know we can represent
our country and be curious and respectfulof other cultures. And so it means
a lot to the host nation.If you can learn a word or two
and enjoy while you're in the momentwhen you're visiting these places, it really
means a lot, and you canleave a lasting impression. I still have
(40:38):
Afghans and iraqis contacting me on socialmedia. I've enjoyed staying in touch with
some of them, especially my friendsat work in media there and wishing them
well always and hoping to have betteroutcomes. So creating these lasting memories and
lasting relationships. And I couldn't havedone it without photos. And so now
(41:00):
you know, everyone loves having acamera and taking photos, but that is
really the best way to capture thosememories so you don't forget later years down
the road about what you experienced.And so take those photos, take the
video. Doesn't mean you have topost anything, but just having them really
could jog your memory and just recallsome of those really great times that you
(41:23):
have while you're traveling. And thisis a great moment to talk about your
book that you authored, Heroes LiveHere, a Tribute to Camp Pendleton Marines
since ninety eleven, which contains fullcolor images and graphic illustrations depicting specifically Camp
Pendleton Marines and their involvement in combatoperations in Afghanistan and the Rock. Can
(41:45):
you talk a little bit about yourreasons for publishing this book. Yeah,
well, thank you. It reallythis book was just a real passion project
for me because it's really it wastwenty years in the making. And I
was stationed at Marine Corps Base CampPendleton, which is located just north of
San Diego. It's the Marine Corpslargest training base, or it has the
(42:07):
most people. About forty thousand peopleare stationed there and a bulk of the
Marines that served in Iraq and Afghanistanwere from Camp Pendleton and deployed from Camp
Pendleton, and many of them didnot come home from Camp Pendleton or from
a Rock and Afghanistan. And soin my research, I learned that more
(42:29):
Marines from Camp Pendleton were killed incombat operations than any other one base or
station in America. So that's aheavy burden for any one military installation or
a country. And so when Icame back here, I started noticing and
driving through the base that there werea lot of tributes and memorials that I
hadn't seen but that have been erectedsince nine to eleven and to honor those
(42:54):
that were lost to some of thefirst Marines, for first people to be
killed in Afghanis and some of thelast. We're all from Camp Pendleton.
And so in the book there's picturesand stories that you may not have heard.
And so at first, at firstI started just taking pictures. Maybe
I'll send it to the gold StarFamilies and those are families that have lost
(43:14):
loved ones, or I'll posted onsocial media. But then I thought,
you know, I need to tryto get this to a wider, larger
audience, and so I partnered witha graphic designer, a marine veteran who
built some of the graphics and themaps and the illustrations in there so that
people who haven't returned could actually seeit. And it's really like a love
(43:37):
letter to them and all those servicemembers that were stationed at Camp Pendleton at
one time and then moved on toother duty stations. So heroes live here.
It's a real it's a coffee tablebook filled with those stories from a
lot of my photos from Iraq andAfghanistan, and then tributes to the memorials
(43:57):
that are on the base. Andso I've been so blast was such good
feedback from service members and Marines,people who were in the Marine Corps in
the fifties and the sixties and eventhe seventies that I was stationed there once,
and so it's a real source ofpride for them. And so I've
been very fortunate to have such agreat response. And I didn't know anything
(44:17):
about book publishing, so I sortof took a leap of faith and said,
let me try this. So Iappreciate the hard work that goes into
publishing a book. And literally Iwas the last person i'd think to write
a book because I'm really not Ireally don't like reading books, but it
(44:37):
does read magazine and so it's filledwith all the pictures and the captions and
the big lettering. And because I'mjust not a book reader myself, so
for those other people who are notdiligent book readers, this could be for
them. And so Amy, ifpeople want to purchase your book and learn
a little bit more about you,where can they find the book and where
(44:57):
can they find more information about you? Yeah, I have a website,
heroslibhere dot com. I welcome peopleto join me there and learn more about
the book. But I definitely loveto connect with people either on LinkedIn is
my platform of choice, or onInstagram, where I do post updates and
excerpts from the book, on myhandle of Heroes Live Here, or Amy
(45:21):
four Sights, I'd love to connectwith you there. So I appreciate the
opportunity to share my experiences of traveland being on assignment. Really and so
whenever I'm on assignment, I dolike to try to have an off duty
day and go and explore. Andmost people in the military also have that
curious adventure side, and we'd liketo explore where we are just to learn
(45:45):
more about the culture. And beable to make some memories, definitely,
and you can find us at wwwdot GTS podcast dot com. You can
find us on Instagram at globetrotters Podcast, where we'll be posting some of Amy's
a zing pictures, including the oneof them at least hopefully armed to the
tea as I described earlier, anda few more of you dressed in civilian
(46:07):
clothes also no but so go giveus a follow there and check it out.
And then we'll be on Facebook atGlobe Trotter's Podcast and on Twitter at
Globe trot Pod. And I justwant to say one last time, Amy.
I know I'm like a broken record, but thank you so much for
your service and for giving us thetime on this podcast. I learned so
much and this has been the reallyinteresting conversation and I'm sure our listeners will
(46:30):
think that as well. Well.Thank you so much. Thank you both.
And travel has always played an importantrole in my life. I've been
blessed to be able to get toshare the courage of our service members and
travel at the same time, alwayshaving a camera in my hand to document
the fascinating world that we live in. Yeah, totally, and I just
(46:51):
want to say before we go too, I mean, like you know,
here we have had two people alreadywho've talked about their careers in travel and
they're both communications jobs. So whoeversaid journalism and communications was dying while it's
not. And guess what, it'sa great way to be able to work
and travel no matter what. Sothanks for that. Yes, thank you
so much,
You're listening to the Globetrotters Podcasts,the show dedicated to bringing you fresh and
diverse perspectives from traveling enthusiasts all overthe world. Here at the Globetrotters Podcast,
we hope to show that travel isso much more than how it's represented
on social media and television. Brybringing you real stories, thoughtful discussions on
ethical issues, and investigations into howyou can make the most of an adventure
(00:36):
without breaking the bank. So ifyou're listening to this episode right now,
go ahead and leave us a reviewon the streaming platform of your choice,
or feel free to drop us amessage on our Instagram at Globetrotters podcast or
on our website at www dot gtspodcast dot com. We always appreciate the
feedback. I'm your co host Jonathano'deo and I'm sask you Hatvanny, And
(00:58):
today we have a have another kindof journalist on the show. Amy Forsyth
is a military journalist. She startedher career as a combat correspondent with the
United States Marines and is now apublic affairs officer in the US Reserve.
She has served five combat tours inIraq and Afghanistan and all around the world.
(01:19):
Combat correspondents are essentially frontline reporters whodocument the experience and relay it to
various media outlets around the world.If you didn't know that already. So
we'll be delving into this career pathwhat it's like. So Amy, thank
you for being on the show.Oh, thank you for having me.
It's wonderful to join you today totalk about some of those things you mentioned
about travel and a career in themilitary. Yes, And did I get
(01:44):
all of your titles correct? Iwas hoping I would because there's a lot
of different ones, and I noticeda lot of different ways of sort of
talking about what you do. Right, that's right. I'm in the Navy
Reserves as well as working for theMarine Corps as a civilian, so I'm
kind of wearing two hats, butwith one mission, and that's to tell
the story of our military members.And before we get into it, I
(02:07):
just want to say, you know, not only thank you for your time,
but thank you for your service.Oh well, thank you. It's
been a wonderful career. I neverintended to make it this far. With
every new assignment brings a re energizedenthusiasm for telling the stories and making an
impact on military people and their families. Yes, so, I mean this
(02:30):
is such a fascinating career and onethat we don't often get the chance to
hear about. I think, evenme as someone who studied journalism, right,
I mean, people who listen tothis podcast will already know this about
me because I bang on about itall the time. But I have to
admit that I wasn't really exposed tothat career opportunity. So I find it
very interesting. And I want tostart by talking about how you even got
(02:53):
into this job, because you know, it might seem a little o secure
to a lot of people. Youwere rolled in the Marines when you were
young, and you were a TVstation reporter based in San Diego, right,
so take us from there. Howdid you end up with the job
and what was your first assignment?Yeah? Well, I was born and
raised in Santa Rosa, California,just north of San Francisco, and I
(03:16):
was always interested in journalism and photography. I was on the yearbook staff at
my high school, but I reallywasn't sure exactly what direction I wanted to
go. I wanted to work inpublic affairs, or public relations. And
I really wasn't bound for college.I wasn't dedicated enough to go to college
at that time. And when Istarted meeting marines, and I got interested
(03:39):
in that. And you know,through our lives, you've seen images about
the Marine Corps, the Eagle globeand anchor, the symbol, the billboards,
the movies, the famous photo ofthe flag raising at Mount Sarabachi during
World War Two, that black andwhite photo. We've all been imprinted with
(03:59):
images and legacy of the Marine Corps. I thought, I want to do
that, and then I met somemarines. They said you can do that
too. I said me, asa woman, I could, And so
I chased down the recruiters and reallywanted to join, and they kind of
put me off and put me offand put me off because recruiting women,
really back then in the late eightiesand early nineties wasn't something that they were
(04:21):
pursuing. But I was persistent.I got a slot, a very coveted
slots, as what they called backthen, a combat correspondent. And so
I had no idea really what itdid. What they did except take photos,
tell stories, and be involved incommunity engagement, community relations and setting
(04:43):
up events like our fleet weeks aroundthe country, like in San Francisco and
New York City. They have bigevents and they're meant to recruit and inspire
patriotism and just showcase what the militaryhas to offer. And so those combination
of led me to join the Marines, and I got the job that I
wanted. Oftentimes recruiters don't make thathappen, but they did. Took an
(05:08):
English diagnostic test, and I knewhow to type, and so I was
a perfect fit for that role.Went off to boot camp at Parris Island,
South Carolina, and went on tothe military's Defense Information School, and
it's really a premier training ground forjournalists military journalists at Fort me and Maryland.
(05:29):
It rivals any journalism school or programin the country. And got a
top notch education in journalism and that'severything related from writing, photography, videography,
radio, I mean learning ape style, writing stories, editing video,
editing radio reports. And back thenwe did it on tape. They've since
(05:51):
moved obviously to digital and nonlinear,and so some really great training pipeline.
And then onto my first duty station, which was at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
So I was very blessed with agreat They considered it overseas deployment,
overseas tour right out of the gate, before you know, we kind of
dive into your first assignment. Weare a travel show. So I don't
(06:15):
want to ask this question how muchexperience did you have traveling, because I
think it's fair to say that mostbranches of the military involved quite a bit
of travel or relocation. And Ithink that's the lure of the military for
a lot of people, is thatadventure seeking people who want to see the
world. Even some of the slogansthe Navy slogans like it's not just a
(06:39):
job, and it's an adventure,and you know, the Marines, they
just are known for an expeditious warfare, going in overseas somewhere to help with
humanitarian disaster or fighting wars, doinga series of different type of skill sets,
whether it's evacuating hostages from a remotelocation, just some of these basic
(07:00):
core competencies of the Navy, theMarine Corps, of the Army, Air
Force. So I was drawn tothat to your question, though I hadn't
really done much traveling. I traveledwithin California. I did a couple of
trips to maybe New York. Iwent to Montana, but other than that,
I didn't have a passport. Ididn't and I only went to Mexico
(07:25):
once with my family, just toTijuana and then a place called Rosarito Beach,
so just south of the border.Back then you didn't need a passport,
and so I did not have apassport. So I was just really
open to anything, anything that wouldcome my way. I didn't want to
put any limitations, so I wasreally excited for these travel opportunities. And
(07:48):
so let me get this straight,though, before you went to this military
journalism school, you had already beenworking as a reporter. Right you were
in your late twenties, you wereworking in San Diego as a television reporter.
But before then you had been enrolledin the military when you were younger.
Correct, So I joined the Marineswhen I was twenty two. I
had worked in public affairs public relationsfor a company, and then worked in
(08:13):
community engagement at a local gym whereI worked as a lifeguard and taught swimming
lessons, but I was kind oftheir outreach coordinator. I joined the Marines,
and I served eight years on activeduty, working in journalism, and
then I left active duty and thenI worked in TV. So a career
in the military really set me upfor success. I walked right into it.
(08:37):
They knew my training, they knewmy experience, and started working in
TV, and so it was agreat way to enter the field. With
having that experience and the training pipeline. In between deployments, I was always
kind of coming back and forth anddeployed, and so when I was deployed,
I was sending them back my reports. I would cover things and then
(08:58):
they would air it, and thenI go back to work when I came
home, and then get deployed again. So I was very lucky to have
an employer that was supportive of mydeployments. And then they also benefited because
they got direct reporting straight from Iraqand Afghanistan at the height of combat operations
there and focused on in Diego basedMarines I was covering, and then they
(09:20):
were always very gracious to air thosereports for me, and then they get
coverage that they wouldn't otherwise have.If I'm not mistaken, you've done five
tours abroad, correct, five combattours, many other missions overseas, two
year long deployments in Iraq, andthen three separate tours in Afghanistan since nine
(09:41):
to eleven. And maybe this isan important point to start, if you
could explain for our listeners what thedifference is between just doing a combat tour
versus other humanitarian work and how thatplays a role in your first deployment in
the Middle East. So, myfirst deployment to Afghanistan was just it was
in two thousand and two two thousandand three time frames, so it was
(10:03):
just after nine to eleven. AndI know, for your listeners out there,
if you can recall and think backto where you were or what you
were thinking about in nine to eleven, you guys were probably just young babies
because they're so young, and notin a bad way. I remember where
I was and listening to the newsand watching it happen in real time.
It'll forever being grained in my mind. Yeah, same, seven years old,
(10:26):
and I remember, oh wow,okay, So you remember, you
know at the time, the countrywas just you know, an awe struck,
and so I knew it was justa matter of time before I was
going to get mobilized to active duty. I already served my active duty time.
I was a veteran going to collegeworking in TV, and I got
mobilized to active duty and so shippedoff to Afghanistan. As in the very
(10:50):
early days, so I hadn't hadthis big build up, and I was
still sort of safe in Afghanistan,and so I really got a sense of
what the country was like with thepeople were like we were able to go
out and eat food and sort ofreally enjoy the environment without the fear of
being attacked. So luckily that wasthe case, you know, through the
(11:11):
years. Then i'd come home,I got mobilized back to Iraq, and
then again to Iraq, and thentwo subsequent tours to Afghanistan. So I've
seen the progression of how our forces, you know, we're operating in Afghanistan
in different capacities and then an Iraqas well, and so just that stringing
that together kind of blurred. IfI didn't have photos, it would be
(11:33):
a big blur to me, becausewhile the cultures are vastly different and the
people are vastly different there, thelandscape is different. Everything is different.
To Americans or other people who don'tknow, it may seem the same Iraq,
Afghanistan, it's all the same.But what I wasn't prepared for when
I went there was not knowing,well, what's the difference between that,
So, but being a journalist inthe military, I got a front row
(11:56):
seat to see the engagements, theactivity, and meet with locals and go
out with locals and really work withmy counterparts any Rock and Afghanistan. So
I had media counterparts that were eithercivilians or in the military, So it
was a really great way to learnmore about what we were doing there.
Instead of being, you know,some of them, our military members were
(12:18):
just kind of stuck back at thebase doing their jobs every day and didn't
really get a chance to have interactionsand direct engagement with local people. And
you know, I've even gotten invitedto go to their homes and inside where
they live, and restaurants and differentplaces. So it really was curious enough
and spend as much time as Icould immersed to try to learn and that
(12:41):
would make me a better journalist anda better understanding of what was really going
on. And how much did youknow about these regions before you went?
Not much, not much because theinternet was kind of hard to find good
accurate information back then. In twothree, there really wasn't a lot out
(13:03):
there viable sources of information, especiallyAfghanistan because it had been locked down for
so many years and not a lotof Western travel going through their writers and
reporters and books and things, soIraq a little bit different. We got
some pre deployment training, some insightswhat to expect, but not so much
(13:24):
on the culture or the language unfortunately. So really if you wanted to learn
more, you really had to askpeople and go and experience it. That's
my one biggest regret is not beingable to learn more about the geography,
the history, not just in thepast ten years, but you know,
going back one hundred, two hundredyears and some of these legacy you know,
(13:46):
the Cradle of Civilization and Genghis Khanand you know the Silk Road.
There were some really key, obviouslyhistoric events that happened that I didn't really
know that much about prior to going. I wished I would, and that
was the one thing that I wouldhave done more of research. Speaking,
you know, of the culture shockas a Westerner, you know, you
(14:09):
talked on some of the things thatyou wish you would have known through the
lens of a war correspondent. Whatabout just a everyday traveler who is going
out to these countries, what shouldthey I don't want to say expect,
but what are some guidelines that youwould advise for them to look into,
even if it's just a tire introductions, how you interact with the locals.
(14:31):
I feel that those travelers and journalistsand visitors to Iraq and Afghanistan the very
brave people, because you know,state departmental post warnings or different things.
So going to Iraq, there's alot of research out there. And I
always thought when I was in Iraq, I said, one day I'm going
to come back as a traveler andgo back and walk the steps where I
(14:54):
was in places like Felujah and Ramadiand Ambar province some of the toughest in
the world, basically where the hottest, most dangerous combat operations were in the
country of Iraq. I thought,one day, it'll be my hope that
the conditions will be such that Ican go back and visit. But I
do think that Iraq is in amuch better place now. You don't hear
(15:18):
much about it in the news,so hopefully things have been restored, that
there's a functioning government and that thepeople there are able to live in peace
and without fear of insurgency or combatoperations. So in Afghanistan's a little bit
different situation, as you know,back in August twenty twenty one, where
(15:39):
we had pulled out of our troops, our remaining forces, and that now
the Taliban is in place as thegovernment functioning government there, sort of,
I wouldn't advise people travel there,although I do know of Westerners Americans who
have traveled there, who have business, who had businesses there, who had
(16:00):
business associates there, who traveled theresafely. So I guess it just depends
on the amount of risk that youwant to take. But you definitely as
we see all the time, Americansor foreign travelers go to a country and
they get themselves either arrested or takenhostage, so they realize people going there
(16:22):
they have to be aware of thedangers that go with it. So if
you're taken hostage, that the USgovernment does not pay ransom, and you
know not that you're on your own, but you do assume some of those
risks, whether you're on assignment,working or as a traveler, and so
knowing that you have to be awareof the situation, now me as a
(16:45):
military member, it's a different adifferent situation entirely. If a military member
will getting more to take, betaken hostage or captive, there's certain rules
and regulations that me as a members, as member uniform member, that I
have to abide by, and asa combatant, And if it's a combatant
(17:06):
situation, then there's certain legalities thatwe have to know in order to the
Code of conduct is what's that's calledto. If you remember, in Vietnam
we had some hundreds thousands of prisonersof war, just like in World War
Two, taken captive and hostage,and so there's certain rules and guidelines that
guide us to life preservation in wartime. You send us a bunch of pictures
(17:30):
of many of your different tours,and looking through them, I found it
very interesting that, you know,some of these pictures are just dressed a
normal civilian attire, like standing infront of a you know, a mosque
or a building or on a street, and others you're completely armed, like
to the teeth, helmet, youknow, bulletproof vest I find that contrast
(17:52):
really interesting, you know, especiallyI'll refer to one picture in particular in
Ramadi with two women and I wouldlove it if you could give us some
background on that image in particular,and also just about this contrast of you
know, how much were you ableto just sort of walk around as a
civilian and how much were you sortof, you know, dressed as a
(18:15):
military personnel. So the picture youwere referencing is me while I was on
patrol in Ramadi in two thousand andsix and some of the height of the
combat operations there, I was taggingalong with a combat infantry squad while they
were on a foot patrol, goingfrom house to house in a village that
(18:37):
had been infiltrated by insurgents. Andso this was some of the early days
of discovering how women at war canbe of greater impact. And so me
with my camera on one hand andmy gun and rifle in the other hand,
on patrol, documenting this foot patrolthat I was on, and so
(18:57):
going into these houses where the malemarines or male soldiers would often separate the
men and the women. Then becauseI was there and they saw that I
was a woman, somehow they couldsee my eyes, my hair sticking out
underneath the helmet, that I wasa woman, and so they brought them
into a room, and they said, come with us over to the kitchen,
(19:21):
and so starting to try to tellme things about what was going on
because they were not able to goand tell the male marines. And so
what this developed into was an ideathat females can do engagement with other women
out on patrol, and later thatbecame called the female Engagement teams and then
(19:44):
the cultural support teams. And sowhat we learned in Muslim culture especially is
that women in the house always knowwhere the bad guy is. They have
the intelligence, they know what's goingon, but oftentimes are not allowed to
say it to the people. Theintel officers coming to gather information, and
(20:04):
so they're afraid to speak to anotherman. They're not allowed to see and
how to be seen by another man. So once we realized this, we
started developing female marine teams that wouldgo and partner with the foot patrol or
going into a situation, and werealized that women in uniform our troops could
(20:26):
better gain the access to these womento gain information. And so the women
of the house were always often verywelcoming to me and arry come with us
in the kitchen. And so Ilearned that that was a step and a
foothold into this idea that women couldbe of value in war. And this
(20:48):
was before women were allowed to servingcombat roles or technically not allowed to be
on frontlines and combat situations, andso the law didn't change until two thousand
thirteen, and so as a resultof some of these engagements that we were
having on the front lines, thelaw didn't catch up until years later.
(21:10):
Very interesting. I had no ideayou're a trailblazering I was just doing my
job and realize, like, there'ssomething going on here that's very unique to
this culture. Maybe there's a way. And as a follow up to Saskia's
question, I think for most peoplethat are outside of this world, you
hear war correspondent, and I thinkthe first few thoughts that they might have
(21:32):
or images that are playing in theirhead is that, you know, you're
going with the military, kicking downdoors and just engaging with enemy combatants.
Is it fair to say that thisis a mischaracterization of the other aspects of
your role or your job. Canyou touch on those a little bit more?
Well? Thanks, You know,that is the image that you see,
and that's the SoundBite or the clipthat you might see on TV.
(21:55):
But oftentimes the day to day andmost of the day is there was just
the strong, steady state of goingfrom village to village or house to house,
just looking for information, trying toprocess the situation. And so my
role was capturing the military in whatthey were doing on operations, whether it
(22:18):
was a convoy or screening members localcitizens, doing a town hall type thing,
working with their local government, workingalso training the say the Iraqi policeman,
the Iraqi Army, the Afghan Army, the Afghan policeman. Those day
to day interactions. My job wasto document. But what we were finding
(22:42):
is that because it was such adangerous situation as that the international media we're
not going to send their reporters tothe front lines anymore because it just was
two dangers. They couldn't run therisk of reporters getting killed or injured.
And we had several high visibility ordersgetting killed and injured in combat operations.
(23:04):
Kimberly Dozier is one of them.Bob Woodruffe was one of them, some
names that you may have heard.So it was up to me and my
teams to go out and collect theimagery in the video and the soundbites,
the b roll the contents the elementsto send back up through satellite every night
so that the news stations could pullthat down and then run that for their
(23:29):
reporting. So a lot of thefootage that you see was often taken by
me or someone like me out therecollecting the images, and so we had
to be We knew we had tobe at the right place at the right
time in order to get the contentand then send that up to the satellite
link and then the stations would pullthat down. Just incredible. Yeah,
and you know, I have toask this question because I'm a journalist nerd
(23:52):
like ethics nerd, right, Andit shakes me as a very unique journalistic
position. To be covering an organizationthat you're working for like that is very
unusual. It would be like theNew York Times covering the New York Times
work. And so can you talkabout that a little bit and what were
the ethics unique to your situation becauseit almost strikes me as like a more
(24:15):
of a public relations position, ButI could be totally wrong, So I'd
love to hear what you think aboutthat. Yes, you are definitely on
the right track there. So asa military journalist, our job really is
to cover and document the work that'sgoing on with our service members. Now,
having said that, we're not theones doing the foias, the Freedom
(24:41):
of Information Act, the research,the gotchas, the you know these tough,
hard hitting articles exposing you know,fraud, waste interviews. So really
our job is to document one andwhat's going on for the commanders to see
what's going on in the battle field. If they say, I need pictures
(25:02):
of this base camp setup, sowe'll bring that back and take that to
the commander and say here's what itlooks like, here's the layout, and
do kind of a storyboard for theinternal use of the command now, documenting
the footage and providing captions for anymedia to put up. And we have
a service called the Defense Video ImageryDistribution System. It's called VIVIDS. It's
(25:26):
basically an archive storage portal where peoplecan pull down information. But you're right,
there is a fine line between coveringand as a journalist and documenting.
So as documenting and covering it forour internal purposes, we're looking for those
good news stories. We're looking foropportunities to highlight our service members. So
(25:48):
it's a little bit of a differentflavor the techniques and the tactics are all
kind of the same as far asgood photos, good stories, proper ap
style, right to a journalistic standardthat any media could also use, and
so on the flip side of thatcoin, a lot of our job and
my job was also coordinating for media, for civilian media outside media to come
(26:14):
and cover, so setting up aninbed, helping them get the research,
doing the research. Like if amedia person says, I want to interview
soldiers from Texas about their experience inAfghanistan, well, then I have to
someone like me would go in research. Kay, I need to vet and
look at who's from Texas. Dothey make good partners to set up for
(26:37):
an interview, do the media preparationtraining, make sure they have confidence in
what they're saying. Also working withthe commanders to do a media role playing
to make sure that they're comfortable totalk to the media. So our role
is not only to cover combat operationsand provide the footage for use, but
also to work with the media forwhen we get those media requests. So
(27:02):
you're right, we're not going tobe covering the military as if a civilian
journalist from the USA Today or WallStreet journal in New York Times is their
angles and their methods are a littlebit different than what we would do.
But back in the day we usedto have based newspapers, we would have
based TV stations, so we coverthe good news stories, but we also
(27:23):
make marines and service members available formedia interviews with civilian media. It's definitely
a unique position. I think sometimesthe words like journalists, public relations officer,
that they're used interchangeably, and youknow, they don't always mean the
same thing. So I'm glad wetouched on that. Yes, thank you
for that clarification. And with therecent convergence, I say in the last
(27:48):
ten years of converging, large organizationsoften have their own internal communications department where
they would cover stories about their employees, do employee spotlights, or do connect
with the media and help find theright person to talk to obviously to shine
a light on their highlights and findthe best spokespeople for certain aspects of their
(28:14):
organization. So there's a lot ofthat going on too, but a wide
variety of different skill sets. Somilitary, say, military journalists and people
that work in public affairs often getout and they can go and work in
any large organization working in the mediaas journalists, and many of my colleagues
have gone on to work in toptwenty market TV stations, radio working as
(28:37):
print journalists, and so it's agreat launch pad for those people who want
to move into journalism and amy.I think anyone that's listening to this podcast,
they're going to listen to what youhave to say. And you're incredibly
eloquent. You're passionate about what youdo. And one aspect that I want
to focus on too, is thehumanity aspect of your job. Because you
did mention how you are working withlocals, you are trying to build the
(29:02):
community in these cities that you're workingin. I want to ask you,
does it ever get difficult the joband you know on the personal level what
you want to be able to dofor these people, do the lines blur,
you know, getting so wrapped upin let's say, for example,
in Afghanistan, I often had theopportunity to coordinate and then go to these
(29:25):
orphanages out in town and so beingso moved by these children's stories, orphans
of war and the tough life thatthey would have, so a lot of
our outreach. We could also asservice members get the opportunity to go out
in town and bring items like toysand books and donated items that troops would
(29:48):
get sent from home. They'd say, Mom, Dad, send me,
send me toys and stuffed animals andbooks, and we're going to go make
a donation out to the local orphanage, the Red Crescent orphanages. These were
just our ways of helping show thatwe cared about the people. So I
always try to help people understand itstress that we were never at war with
(30:10):
the Iraqi people, we were neverat war with the Afghan people. Some
of those stories are just so heartbreaking, but it was very uplifting to go
and be able to go off baseand not for the purpose of combat operations,
but to deliver, deliver on ourcommitment to helping the people with whether
it was rebuilding a school or buildinga hospital and delivering goods to an orphanage.
(30:37):
And so in that you really getcommitted. You're committed to the mission,
and when you get to play withkids and just restores your hope in
humanity and that they hopefully if theyremember nothing about Americans, is that one
day or that a bunch of peoplebrought us some toys that that would be
(30:57):
our lasting legacy to them, thatthat's something that they can remember forever,
and so getting emotionally connected to thekids there, and so it was just
such a great opportunity, not justfor me, but for when I would
get troops, say frontline troops tosay, let's take a day off,
(31:17):
well, let's bring you into theorphanage and then they would just have a
nice a mental break from the stressand being able to play with the kids
really meant a lot to them.And so creating these opportunities for them to
go out and do something good forthe locals, it really helped their mental
health and help them understand that notall Afghans or not all Iraqis are bad
(31:41):
people, is what they would tendto start believing, because that's who they
were fighting, is insurgencies. Andso creating those experiences as part of our
job too, and then being ableto document that and share that with their
families. They would send stories orpictures home of them not just all kidded
up with guns and big weapons,but that they actually got a chance to
(32:07):
go eye to eye and on thesame level with some kids in an orphanage.
So staying on this region for alittle longer, just because it's fascinating,
you know. I think a lotof people hear about this region of
the world basically through war and conflict. So I'd love to talk about,
you know, your experiences of theculture there, and especially coming in with
(32:30):
almost no knowledge. Like you said, what struck you about the culture and
what would you like to share topeople who you know have never been and
might never go about the culture inthis region. Well, honestly, yeah,
I didn't know much about the Afghanculture when I first went there,
but when working with their media,working with their leaders in their government at
(32:50):
the time my first deployment in twothousand and three, I was just really
struck by we're all more alike thanwe are different, and I didn't know
what to expect, and I wasa little bit of fear. But once
I realized that working with their journalistsis that they have the same struggles and
the same deadlines and the same desireto do a good job as we do
(33:13):
and helping inform our people, ouraudiences, our soldiers, sailors, aramond
and marines, that people are thesame no matter where you go, and
the history in Afghanistan is just soamazing, and they're very proud. They
are very proud of their history thereand the beautiful landscape that is Afghanistan.
(33:35):
They love flowers, they love plantingroses, believe it or not, and
their music and the food. They'rejust so passionate about that. So those
are the things that I took awaythat I remember about just the fascinating culture,
but that it really hasn't been exploredthat much in Afghanistan. It's been
(33:57):
very shut off geographically. It's hardto get to because you're surrounded by the
Hindu Kush Mountain range, and sothat's why it's just been so shut in
because it is very difficult to getin and out of there. You almost
can't drive because the pass. There'sa pass there that during the winter it
snows over and you just really can'tdrive it. But it has just such
(34:21):
a fascinating history and so anybody whogets a chance to go there. Hopefully
one day it'll be more permissive,but for now, there's so much on
the internet to learn about, butthe culture, the food, and many
people that can go there. Eventhough we were there during very dangerous times,
there was still a chance to interactwith people. Luckily, to get
(34:45):
that kind of flavor and understand whatthey're going through as well. It's very
hard and working with my counterparts therein Afghanistan, whether it was the media
or Afghan soldiers there is that whenit was always time to come home and
leave and get ready to redeploy tocome back to America, the sadness that
(35:06):
most people felt, you know,myself included was that I know, I
get to come home. However,the people left here, this is their
home and they're they're still stuck there. They're still there, and they're just
as you saw in August twenty twentyone, the desperation to leave as they
(35:27):
were hanging from the planes at theKabul International Airport for example, just so
heartbreaking. And so my hope isis that one day they you know,
they modernize or you know, changetheir ability to get put into the fold
of the bigger, larger world outthere. And so as we're progressing in
(35:49):
terms of technology and advancement and mobility, while the people in Afghanistan has sort
of remained at this You can goback two thousand years, nothing changed.
So there's people who like literally livein a cave in the side of a
mountain, chickens running around on theirdirt floors or sleeping on a dirt floor.
It was stepping back two thousand yearsand that was fascinating for me.
(36:13):
And you know, before we runout of time here and I do want
to talk about your book. Justone last question. Earlier in the episode,
I said you're a trailblazer, whichyou are. What advice would you
give to someone who wants to followin your footsteps and become a combat correspondent
or public affairs officer. Well,these two career paths have led to amazing
(36:35):
experiences for me, and I justreally could not ask for a better career
with more opportunities. And the fielditself is filled with smart, educated,
curious people. So if you wantto surround yourself with really creative, ambitious,
(36:55):
dynamic people, that is definitely thecareer field to choose. No two
days are ever the same. Forsome people. That's a good thing.
Some people don't like that, butit definitely keeps you on your toes.
My advice to someone looking at acareer in the military, and if you're
creative and you enjoy people, youhave to be a people person. You
(37:19):
have to love telling people's stories.That's definitely one of the best ways to
do that and see the world andreally take your career to the next level.
If it's something you want to do, go for it. It is
opened up so many doors, andso my priority now now that I've served
more than thirty years in uniform totalservice time, I'm trying to open as
(37:43):
many doors for as many people aspossible and encourage people to consider it.
Whether you want to be an enlistedmember where you really get your hands on
the camera and the writing and thevideography and the graphic design and really just
a breadth of ways to tell storiesnow that there's so many ways to do
that, or if you already haveyour bachelor's degree and you want to become
(38:04):
an officer and you love people andyou want to work with the media and
really be the interface between sharing thestories of our services with that of a
larger population, that's also another routethat you can go. But it really
has been an amazing journey filled withtravel and meeting people from all different cultures
(38:25):
and serving with some of the bestpeople who care about our country and who
are inspired by patriotism. Legacy ofnine to eleven and then beyond but the
people of today have some really complicatedproblems and challenges ahead, and we need
as many people who want to dothe job, who want to wear that
(38:46):
uniform and represent the represent America onthe world stage. That is definitely a
place for them. And I'll tellyou, being deployed and working overseas in
places like paul In, Romania,Sri Lanka, Malaysia, you kind of
feel like a mini ambassador because whileyou're in uniform or out of uniform,
(39:07):
people know you as an American andyou're there to represent America and that might
be the only impression that they have. And so when you can humanize it
and put a face and a handshaketogether for someone who's never met an American,
it really means so much. Andso and we're taught to, you
(39:27):
know, take that as serious aspossible, because we're representing the country,
not just our branch of service ormyself, but we're really representing our country
in the best possible light. Yeah, and I know it's not on the
same level as what you're describing,but this is why whenever I go abroad,
I try to portray myself in thebest light as possible, because you
know, there are these stereotypes ofthe ugly American or the entitled American.
(39:52):
And I do my best to youknow, shy away from them and give
other people. Yeah, give people, not not physically, but I do
try to portray myself, as yousaid, as an ambassador for this country.
Yes, thank you, and youknow for travelers out there, representing
yourself but your country as well,and so that can have a lasting impact.
(40:15):
And so I think we all feelbetter when we know we can represent
our country and be curious and respectfulof other cultures. And so it means
a lot to the host nation.If you can learn a word or two
and enjoy while you're in the momentwhen you're visiting these places, it really
means a lot, and you canleave a lasting impression. I still have
(40:38):
Afghans and iraqis contacting me on socialmedia. I've enjoyed staying in touch with
some of them, especially my friendsat work in media there and wishing them
well always and hoping to have betteroutcomes. So creating these lasting memories and
lasting relationships. And I couldn't havedone it without photos. And so now
(41:00):
you know, everyone loves having acamera and taking photos, but that is
really the best way to capture thosememories so you don't forget later years down
the road about what you experienced.And so take those photos, take the
video. Doesn't mean you have topost anything, but just having them really
could jog your memory and just recallsome of those really great times that you
(41:23):
have while you're traveling. And thisis a great moment to talk about your
book that you authored, Heroes LiveHere, a Tribute to Camp Pendleton Marines
since ninety eleven, which contains fullcolor images and graphic illustrations depicting specifically Camp
Pendleton Marines and their involvement in combatoperations in Afghanistan and the Rock. Can
(41:45):
you talk a little bit about yourreasons for publishing this book. Yeah,
well, thank you. It reallythis book was just a real passion project
for me because it's really it wastwenty years in the making. And I
was stationed at Marine Corps Base CampPendleton, which is located just north of
San Diego. It's the Marine Corpslargest training base, or it has the
(42:07):
most people. About forty thousand peopleare stationed there and a bulk of the
Marines that served in Iraq and Afghanistanwere from Camp Pendleton and deployed from Camp
Pendleton, and many of them didnot come home from Camp Pendleton or from
a Rock and Afghanistan. And soin my research, I learned that more
(42:29):
Marines from Camp Pendleton were killed incombat operations than any other one base or
station in America. So that's aheavy burden for any one military installation or
a country. And so when Icame back here, I started noticing and
driving through the base that there werea lot of tributes and memorials that I
hadn't seen but that have been erectedsince nine to eleven and to honor those
(42:54):
that were lost to some of thefirst Marines, for first people to be
killed in Afghanis and some of thelast. We're all from Camp Pendleton.
And so in the book there's picturesand stories that you may not have heard.
And so at first, at firstI started just taking pictures. Maybe
I'll send it to the gold StarFamilies and those are families that have lost
(43:14):
loved ones, or I'll posted onsocial media. But then I thought,
you know, I need to tryto get this to a wider, larger
audience, and so I partnered witha graphic designer, a marine veteran who
built some of the graphics and themaps and the illustrations in there so that
people who haven't returned could actually seeit. And it's really like a love
(43:37):
letter to them and all those servicemembers that were stationed at Camp Pendleton at
one time and then moved on toother duty stations. So heroes live here.
It's a real it's a coffee tablebook filled with those stories from a
lot of my photos from Iraq andAfghanistan, and then tributes to the memorials
(43:57):
that are on the base. Andso I've been so blast was such good
feedback from service members and Marines,people who were in the Marine Corps in
the fifties and the sixties and eventhe seventies that I was stationed there once,
and so it's a real source ofpride for them. And so I've
been very fortunate to have such agreat response. And I didn't know anything
(44:17):
about book publishing, so I sortof took a leap of faith and said,
let me try this. So Iappreciate the hard work that goes into
publishing a book. And literally Iwas the last person i'd think to write
a book because I'm really not Ireally don't like reading books, but it
(44:37):
does read magazine and so it's filledwith all the pictures and the captions and
the big lettering. And because I'mjust not a book reader myself, so
for those other people who are notdiligent book readers, this could be for
them. And so Amy, ifpeople want to purchase your book and learn
a little bit more about you,where can they find the book and where
(44:57):
can they find more information about you? Yeah, I have a website,
heroslibhere dot com. I welcome peopleto join me there and learn more about
the book. But I definitely loveto connect with people either on LinkedIn is
my platform of choice, or onInstagram, where I do post updates and
excerpts from the book, on myhandle of Heroes Live Here, or Amy
(45:21):
four Sights, I'd love to connectwith you there. So I appreciate the
opportunity to share my experiences of traveland being on assignment. Really and so
whenever I'm on assignment, I dolike to try to have an off duty
day and go and explore. Andmost people in the military also have that
curious adventure side, and we'd liketo explore where we are just to learn
(45:45):
more about the culture. And beable to make some memories, definitely,
and you can find us at wwwdot GTS podcast dot com. You can
find us on Instagram at globetrotters Podcast, where we'll be posting some of Amy's
a zing pictures, including the oneof them at least hopefully armed to the
tea as I described earlier, anda few more of you dressed in civilian
(46:07):
clothes also no but so go giveus a follow there and check it out.
And then we'll be on Facebook atGlobe Trotter's Podcast and on Twitter at
Globe trot Pod. And I justwant to say one last time, Amy.
I know I'm like a broken record, but thank you so much for
your service and for giving us thetime on this podcast. I learned so
much and this has been the reallyinteresting conversation and I'm sure our listeners will
(46:30):
think that as well. Well.Thank you so much. Thank you both.
And travel has always played an importantrole in my life. I've been
blessed to be able to get toshare the courage of our service members and
travel at the same time, alwayshaving a camera in my hand to document
the fascinating world that we live in. Yeah, totally, and I just
(46:51):
want to say before we go too, I mean, like you know,
here we have had two people alreadywho've talked about their careers in travel and
they're both communications jobs. So whoeversaid journalism and communications was dying while it's
not. And guess what, it'sa great way to be able to work
and travel no matter what. Sothanks for that. Yes, thank you
so much,
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