July 5, 2023 • 37 mins
Julie Kaplan, a young 23 year old student took a 2 year break from her university to work abroad and go on a few trips off the beaten path. In October 2021, Julie ventured into the country nicknamed, the Cradle of Civilization. Her trip was only supposed to last 48 hours, but it quickly turned into 4 months. Along the way, Julie filmed a 12-episode documentary about her travels to provide a different narrative and perspective on Iraq: including its rich history, culture, and amazing hospitality.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
You're listening to the Globetrotters podcast,the show dedicated to bringing you fresh and
diverse perspectives from traveling enthusiasts all overthe world. Here at the Globetrotters Podcast,
we hope to show that travel isso much more than how it's represented
on social media and television by bringingyou real stories, thoughtful discussions on ethical
issues, and investigations into how youcan make the most of an adventure without
(00:35):
breaking the bank. I'm your host, Jonathan o'diddo, and today we get
to share a story that, quitefrankly, is unlike anything I've ever heard
of, but is desperately needed inour efforts to present it on this perspective
on a specific group of people andcountry. Julie Kaplan, a young twenty
three year old student, took atwo year break from our university to work
(00:57):
abroad and eventually go on the fewtrips off the beaten path. In October
twenty twenty one, Julie's one weekendtrip to Iraq turned into four months.
That's right, you heard me.Forty eight hours turned into sixteen weeks.
In the country nicknamed the cradle ofcivilization, Julie filmed the twelve episode documentary
(01:17):
about her travels to provide a differentnarrative and perspective on Iraq, including its
rich history, culture, and amazinghospitality. Julie, it's a pleasure to
have you on the show, Jonathan, thank you for having me. That's
quite the introduction, and I'm soexcited to be here and to get to
chat more. Good And today Iam sporting my La hat in honor of
(01:38):
having another La native on the show. It's not too often I get to
say that, No, I lovethat hot. I was at the Dodgers
getting this past Monday, so I'mglad to see you're wearing here of the
home team good Blue. Before weget started, and we talked details of
this specific trip, Can you providea bit more context for our listeners on
what led you to ira I mentionedthat you took a two year gap to
(02:01):
work abroad and do some off thebeaten paths travel. Can you elaborate on
that experience a bit more. Definitely, I would be happy too. So
the broader context is that I wasa university student at Arizona State University,
and in the spring of twenty twenty, when COVID hit, I decided to
take a little bit of time offof school. I figured that in person
(02:25):
experiences, specifically abroad, would leadto a more fulfilling experience than zoom University.
So during my first year off,I worked in Switzerland and then in
Eastern Europe, and in my secondyear off, I decided to go travel
the countries that maybe we're a bitoff of the beaten path. I started
(02:46):
in Uzbekistan and then Kyrkistan, andthen I was really interested in visiting the
Middle East and specifically South Kurdistan.So that's how I ended up there.
And I've always been interested in theregion, largely due to its history,
because this is ancient Babylon and Sumeria. And I flew into air Bill and
(03:12):
when I arrived, I was justso surprised that I knew I needed to
spend a little bit more time tofurther explore. And so I have to
ask, because you know, thesearen't typically countries that a person at twenty
two twenty three is saying, Hey, let me go to this region of
a planet. How much experience didyou have traveling prior to your work abroad
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in Switzerland and obviously the Eastern Europeancountries. That's a good question. I
think it's important to mention the prerequisiteof I come from a family of people
who love to travel. And aquick anecdote is, when I was a
kid, it was a tradition inmy family that the youngest of all of
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my siblings I have three brothers,was in charge of navigation airports from the
time that we learned how to walkso at so at the age of five,
my family would go to airports oneor two hours before we needed to
be there, and whoever was youngesthad to figure out which gate we were
going to, and if we didn'tknow, we had to go talk to
(04:15):
the gate agent. So I wastrained from the time I was five.
No, you know what, shoutout to your parents. I've never thought
of doing that. That's probably somethingthat I'm going to incorporate into my life
when the time comes and I havekids. Good on them. No,
I appreciate it. And when Iwas in my youth, most of our
travels were visiting family across the USor road trips. And then it's probably
(04:41):
when I was seventeen eighteen that Ireally started to explore and my fresh after
my freshman year of college, Iworked as a bartender in Ireland. I
did a few trips on my ownor with family and friends to Southeast Asia,
to South America, and then ultimatelyin my trip when I was twenty
two twenty three, it's only donethat I really started to go to more
(05:05):
off the beaten path destinations. Whilewe're on the topic of family, I
really want to see what your familythought of this experience, because for our
listeners, I want to put thisin perspective about tourism in Iraq. You
know, I looked up some statisticsbefore this about global tourism in general.
There's roughly zero point zero two touristsper resident in Iraq, which ranks one
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hundred and seventieth in the world outof all the qualifying nations, and in
comparison, the United States comes inat number three. So my question is
this, as a Westerner, whatwas the pushback, if any, that
you received from friends and family aboutvisiting Iraq. I mean, even now,
the US government advisory level for visitingIraq is read as in do not
(05:51):
travel due to ongoing threats of kidnappings, very high risk of violence, armed
conflict, and terrorist attacks. Thisis a big question, and I think
it's a really important one. Butmy family and friends, I think,
of course we're pretty worried about me, and I don't blame them because most
(06:13):
of the media that we read aboutthe Middle East and Iraq specifically that we've
been exposed to, it's been aboutwar and terror, and I would say,
probably most recently what we've heard aboutin Iraq was back in twenty fifteen
to twenty seventeen when Isis occupied aportion of the country, So most of
the media has been pretty negative.So I did start in Kurdistan, which
(06:35):
traditionally is more of a safe moreof a safe region, and my family
had very and they knew that Kurdistanwasn't a place where they would be worrying
about me, but it was whenI decided to go to Baghdad. I
think that there was worry, butI'm very grateful that those around me really
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trust me. And what I sawon the ground was completely different from what
the news showed. And I willsay during my entire four month treat I
never truly felt like I was indanger or like there was a big security
like I had there was a bigsecurity threat. Now there were obstacles that
(07:15):
I had to face, but Iwouldn't say that I really felt like I
was in danger in a way thatpeople might have expected exactly. And I
think that's why this discussion is soimportant, because I'll be honest, I
think you're the only person I've evermet or at least that is disclosed that
they've gone to a rock. Soit's really important to kind of shed light
(07:36):
on what the experience is like,and especially from a Westerner's perspective. So
what sort of planning went into atrip like this? You know, we
talked about how this was supposed tobe a weekend visit, which I'm keen
to hear about, but it turnedinto four months. So what were the
initial plans and how did that morefull over time? To say that I
(07:56):
had a robust initial plan would beher statement. I knew that I blewoub
Kurdistan. I knew that I wantedto visit air Bill and from there,
and I would say for the entiretyof my trip, I really heavily relied
on locals. So when I arrivedto Narbel, I was very fortunate to
(08:16):
have some mutual friends who lived there, and they gave me the lowdown on
the best sites and places to see. You in sub Kurdistan, and I
started from there and then every stepalong the way. What is where I
went next was from the advice ofsomebody who I had previously met there.
And so you know, in regardsto actually making it to Iroq, you
(08:39):
mentioned in the pre interviewed discussion thatyou need visas for certain cities but not
for other territories. Was that throughlocal help too that you found that out
or is that from your own researchinto the country beforehand? So it's a
great question. When I traveled tothe country, was able to get a
(09:00):
visa on arrival for both Kurdistan andIraq Federal Iraq. So I flew into
air Bill, was able to geta visa, But in order for me
to travel to Federal Iraq, whichis then not Kurdistan part of the country,
I needed to fly. So Iflew from air Bill to Baghdad to
(09:20):
get another visa, and that Idid figure out on the ground. And
so I guess this is a questionI didn't think about asking. But now
since we're on the topic, areyou the type of person that does research
into a country before you go.Was it a different experience for Iraq?
So the way that I travel,is that I have must sis would be
(09:43):
nice to seize And then and thenyeah, yeah, i's avoid at all
costs, or if I have time, would be nice. So, for
example, in South Kurdistan, Ireally knew that I wanted to visit the
air Bill Citadel, which is oneof the oldest continuously habited kind of places
in the world. I knew Iwanted to see that. And I knew
(10:07):
I wanted to go to Lawlish,which is where the Yazidis have their ho
it's there I believe they're holiest site. So those two I knew I wanted
to see. And then before I'darrived, I had made a list of
some of the things that if Icould see would be great. That included
the mountains of Salimania and visiting Dahope. And then I'd made a little bit
(10:31):
of a list of Okay, whatis everything else that would be nice,
and and then I incorporated that withthe knowledge of locals, and I think
that shifted a few pieces around aswell. So I'd say, before a
trip, I always have defaults ofthings that I know I'm going to get
up and do, but I'm reallyreally open to incorporating what others, the
(10:52):
advice that other people have. Andso let's talk about the initial forty eight
hours, because, as you know, we've already touched time. It was
supposed to be a short trip.What did you see in those first forty
eight hours that convinced you to,you know, prolong the trip? Definitely.
So I arrived and I was pickedup at the airport by a friend
(11:13):
of a friend of a friend.So this is a friend from California's best
friends, I think ex boyfriend.I was from zaf Ghartistan. So a
mutual picks me up at the airportand immediately treated me like family. And
this is somebody who liked had nevermet, and they welcomed me into their
(11:35):
family's home and they and even thoughthey probably had less than six hours of
notice that I was arriving, theyprepared this elaborate feast for me. And
in my whole life, nobody's everprepared a piece for me. But I
was just shocked because I arrived inits air Villa is a beautiful city.
(11:56):
There's history, there's the cuisine,there's music, and just even in my
first forty eight hours, I sawall of these snippets. But again,
so vastly juxtaposed what I expected.I was full of surprise in my first
forty eight hours. And did younotice a level of excitement on the individuals
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that you met on your first fortyeight hours to meet a Western, to
get FaceTime with Westerners? Or isthat something maybe more common than I'm assuming?
No, I mean it was.Everybody I met was so excited to
get to know me and to getto speak with me, and specifically to
get to show that their region iswarm and hospitable and not again, not
(12:39):
like what I might have expected.So I think people and even strangers would
come up to me because based atleast especially then, on the way that
I dressed, on the way thatI looked, people assumed or assumed they
kind of guest that I was aforeigner and would come up to me and
ask to practice their English or askif I needed anything. And yeah,
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and every almost every verson I spoketo invited me into their homes said what
do you like to join us fortie or for a meal? Do you
need a place to stay? AndI just I'd never been anywhere like that.
That was just so hospitable, Yeah, exactly. Or we mentioned that
you have this incredible twelve part dot. Did you go to a rock with
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maybe that having been a thought ordid that develop as your time progressed in
the country. No, so greatquestion. It definitely wasn't something that I
had expected to do before arriving.And to give a bit of context and
some of my fire travels, Ihad filmed short video kind of YouTube blog
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type videos for fun. If Iwere traveling in a country and there was
something cool that I saw that Iwanted to show, I would film the
click video, and then when Icame to a rock. I think I
didn't start homing my ultimate twelve partseries until two or three weeks. In
the first few weeks, I wasjust traveling and really was just so excited
(14:09):
by what I was seeing. Andwhen I would call my friends and family
at home, they wouldn't believe me. I would say, I would say,
Wow, I just visited the MesopotamianMarshes, the largest wetland ecosystem in
the Middle East. They're so beautiful, there's there's they're just so incredible and
people people just had no idea athome, and again, like, why
(14:31):
would they have It's not something thisis a country that they likely have no
ties to why would they have heardabout the marshes? And I was just
so inspired that I decided, Okay, maybe maybe I have a story to
tell. Maybe if I maybe Icould show the country through my eyes and
(14:52):
maybe people would watch it. Andthat's where the inspiration behind the series came
from. Yeah, that's actually whatI was going to ask what your mo
ovation was for the Docky series.And obviously, you know, as someone
who has very limited I don't wantto say that. Maybe perspective is the
right term about Iraqi? Do Ithink most Westerners have this impression of Iraq
(15:13):
being or torn due to the tenyear plus conflict with the US. Is
that what you were seeing on theground or was it more I think a
lot of people perceive it to bethis dry, desert landscape that has buildings
that are like in rubble. ButI'm assuming that's not what you were experiencing
completely, And I think and thatwas a big goal of my videos,
(15:37):
was to show all of the differentpieces of the country. And for example,
before I arrived, I assumed itwas all desert. Little did I
know there were mountains with snow andlakes and marshlands and certainly there was dessert,
and so in terms of nature,Iraq is way more diverse than I
initially thought. But in terms ofbuildings that were kind of in rubble that
(16:03):
there are cities where buildings do aredestroyed. But I think let me give
you an example, and most so, which is a city in the north
of the country that was underries thisoccupation until twenty seventeen. And when you
do arrive and you go to theold town, lots of the buildings are
(16:23):
in rubble. But I don't thinkthat's where the story is. I think
the story is that when you lookaround, you see all of the so
many buildings that are being built,and you see people moving there, and
do you see the shops that existamong the rubble and you see the growth
and it being rebuilt. And Ithink in a rock, more than anywhere
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else that I've ever traveled to,you can see the past blend with the
present in a really beautiful way.And whether it's the ancient history, for
example, the ruins of a roof, which is the land that the ruler
Guildamash fooled, you see that,and then within a few hours you can
be in a beautiful metropolitan modern relativelymodern city and or so, you know,
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really ancient history, too recent conflictwithin the past ten years, and
the past and the present mixing isjust something that I didn't grow up with
and that I'm from Los Angeles,a relatively new part of the world,
and all it is is the present, and I I just loved getting to
see that duality beautifully said. Andyou've mentioned the Mesopotamian marshes a few times,
(17:36):
which I'm so glad that you did, because this is the question that
I'm going to ask you. Soin episode five, not to give too
much away to anyone listening, gocheck it out, but you're essentially fishing
at night and camping out in thewetlands of Iraq, and there's this moment
where you're around the campfire and you'retalking with several Iraqies and you ask what
is something people might not know aboutIraq or that they wouldn't expect, And
(18:00):
their response is that they simply wantpeople to educate themselves about Iraq and the
Rockies because the reality is different fromwhat you hear on the news. And
in other words, they just wantto be treated as humans, you know,
different than you and me, andI thought that was really powerful to
capture on tape. No thank you, And most travel bloggers that I've seen,
(18:22):
they hold their selfie camera up tothem and they show them experiencing whatever
country that they're in. And inIraq, although my blogs do have a
lot of my kind of personal experienceand it through my eyes, I really
tried my best to turn around thecamera as much as I could. And
I think there are a lot ofstories that I didn't want to tell myself
(18:47):
because I didn't feel that they weremy stories to share. But when he
saw statements like that from the Iraqisor from the Kurds that I met,
I thought it was a lot morepowerful than had I said than had I
just said the same thing. SoI'm glad you watched that, And that's
also one of my favorite scenes ofthe series. Yeah, I couldn't agree
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more. And so, you know, I do want to talk about the
vlogging aspect and challenges of that,but it's not as interesting to me as
the actual experience of Iraq. Socan you talk a little bit about,
you know, the cultural differences andhow you adapted to those between being a
Westerner from La to Iraq. WhenI arrived. I think what was most
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interesting to me is that it wasn'tthe differences that I initially noticed. It
was all of the similarities. Andespecially for the university aged people in my
age group, we wouldn't have theconversations that I had there were very similar
to the conversations that I have here. So I think there's so much in
common. There definitely are differences,for example, at the dinner table.
(19:57):
So dinner in a rap going tobe very different from in California, and
so at Interac often dinner you eatit on the flour or maybe on a
carpet or on a rug, andit's family style. And I am not
I don't have the biggest appetite inthe world. But so what would happen
if we would all be sitting andthen somebody, for usually the mother who
(20:19):
had cooked the meal, would servemy plate, and then I would eat
as much as I could, andthere would still be food left on the
plate, and then they would seethat I ate, and then they would
pile more and more onto my plate, and then at some point I would
go, no, no, no, I'm thank you so much your meal,
It's great. I'm so cool.And often but often me not finishing
my meal was perceived as an eatingrude or they would say, oh,
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you don't like the food, whywhy aren't you eating more? And why
aren't you finishing? And I wouldgo, no, I love the food,
I just can't eat more. Andthe guests was always served first and
versus in for example, at homein California. In general, I'll serve
my own plate and then I'll onlytake as much as I know I'm going
to eat, and then I finishit and then the meal is over.
(21:03):
So I think there are a lotof small things like that that really were
a difference and I had to getused to and so that's one difference.
But again, yeah, there's justso much that I had in common as
well. Yeah, and I lovethat you answered in that way because I
think, you know, going forward, maybe I need to pose the question
differently and ask, you know,what were the similarities that you shared with
(21:23):
a different culture and as you weresharing that experience that was different for you.
To be honest with you, itsounded like my mom. You know,
I'm a Latino, and it justtotally sounded like something that my mom
would do. We obviously serve guestsfirst, and you know she's a cook,
so she piles on the food,which is like portions for two or
three people. And then if youdon't if you don't ask for seconds,
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she assumes that you didn't like themeal. So I love that you shared
that know it. And it's agreat example that trouble and even the experience
of living is going to be sodifferent for every single family. And it's
really cool that certain cultures have certainsimilarities and others have total differences. And
that's what the beauty of travel isto figure out. Okay, things in
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Iraq might be different from at home, but it's not necessarily better or worse.
And if I like something that theirculture does maybe better than what we
do at home, great I'll stealit. I'll bring that to my own
life. And an example of thatis the tea drinking culture. So in
Iraq, all breakfast after breakfast,lunch after lunch, and the afternoons and
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the evenings before bed, they alwaysdrink tea and they call it high And
I thought, I'm a huge teadrinker, and I thought it was awesome
that I didn't need an excuse todrink tea. And it was a way
to send to sit and enjoy andspend time with people. And I think
often in the US we have scheduledcoffee chats that are thirty minutes long,
or scheduled tea breaks, and incorporatingtaking a step back and drinking something warm
(23:00):
into ones every daylight was awesome andI brought that to my own life.
And now I have my cattle.You can't see it here because I'm in
the dining room, but my kettleover there and my tea bags and I'm
cooking team way more off. AndI think that's one of the beautiful parts
of trouble is that you get todo that. And something else that I
saw in your Docky series that Iwant to ask you about or talk about
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is you put yourself to work inthe market. So one of the things
that you tried doing is it isselling at a local market, and which
I won't tell the guests if youwere successful or not, but talk about
that experience a little bit because vseeing it, I mean, it put
a smile on my face, butit also made me like if I was
in your shoes, I'd be sonervous and not nervous to interact with locals,
(23:44):
but just to not be able todo it. No, I appreciate
you asking. So one of myfavorite parts all throughout Iraq, we're all
of the bazaars and bazaars. Soin the in the US, we don't
have those. We have supermarkets.Maybe farmers markets are the closest. That
closest we would get to bazaars.But I thought they were awesome. They
(24:04):
were full of they could be fullof animals or food or anything you can
think of being sold or sold inthese bazaars. And I was in most
Iraq, in the north, andI had friends who ran a dessert stand,
and they had said, truly,would you would you like to join
us behind and help us sell?And of course I said yes, and
(24:27):
so yes, I was behind.I was in for a few hours.
I was in charge of the Booklava, the book Clava stand, and oh
I John, I took my rolein very seriously. And I you know,
I go book Claulama and I thinkI got a lot of stairs.
And I will not disclose how longit took me to make my first and
(24:49):
potentially only sail, but I didsell at least one at least one piece
of dessert, and it was justso much fun and it was great to
get to have a little bit oftime as a sales as a clap a
saleswoman. Definitely. And do youever feel any specifically in this situation,
(25:11):
any pressure that you are acting asa pseudo ambassador for our country while you're
out there. That's a great question. And as a tourist, that's something
that I took. I think youhave a massive responsibility when you're serving as
a representative of your country, ofyour gender. I was a representative of
so many things, not only ina rap but in my travels more broadly.
(25:34):
And that's actually one of the reasonswhy I studied global politics and university,
because I figured, if I loveto travel and I want to represent
my country, I really need tounderstand how it works and what our government
looks like and what our country's historyis because when people ask, I need
(25:55):
to know the answer, and that'smy responsibility. So absolutely every interaction I
had, I was completely aware thatI might be the only American that these
that anybody I meet ever meets.And if that case, how do I
want to represent myself and how doI want to represent my country? And
(26:15):
It's that's a responsibility that I takevery seriously. I hope that I was
a positive representation of all the groupsthat I represent. A lot of the
time you relied on, you know, friends or friends of friends to get
around, usually with people you hadnever met before. How easy or difficult
was it to communicate with other individuals? Was English more widely spoken than you
(26:40):
would have assumed? Those are moregreat questions. Yes, I've definitely relied
heavily on locals. Many of theindividuals who are younger, so in their
twenties and their keens, twenties,thirties, had awesome English fluency, and
I was able to communicate just aswell as my friends back at home.
(27:00):
So there were many people who,yeah, who spoke English, and that
was awesome. There were definitely partsof the country where English was not as
widely spoken, specifically in the morerural areas, and in those situations would
I communicated with my limited Arabic orKartish skills, neither of which I learned
(27:22):
ahead of time, But I'm prettypretty good at picking languages up on the
go. I would, yeah,I would use the skills that I had.
I would use Google Translate and ifI were really in a situation where
I needed to communicate and I didn'thave a translator with me, then I
would call up a friend that Ihad and have them helped communicate on the
(27:42):
dodge over the phone. So Idon't I really can't think of any situations
where I was really left where Iwasn't able to communicate with someone. There
was always multiple options to be ableto communicate. And I asked that question
because I kind of knew that thiswas going to be the answer, more
or less, so I kind ofbaited you into that answer, but just
(28:04):
because I want our listeners to know, because I think a real fear that
I hear often about travel in generalis not being able to communicate with that
country or those people, the localsthere. And you know, you just
kind of summed up a few differentways in which they can approach that situation
if they wanted to communicate. Sonow, no, thank you for that,
(28:25):
No, of course, And solet's talk a little bit more about
your experiences with the locals. Ifyou could share a meaningful time or two
in which you had an interaction thatmaybe isn't recorded or talked about in your
docuseries, but it was very impactfulto you. We would that experience have
been. The first story that comesto mind was when I was in a
(28:48):
bizarre and I felt my backpath bezipped and Jonathan, I'm sure, as
you know, as somebody who lovesto travel, if you feel any type
of colo on your backpack, yourfirst feeling of your heart jumping into your
throat. And I whipped around andthere was a young boy who had looked
at me and then fluid English said, your backpack was unzipped, I just
(29:12):
wanted to sip it up for you, and that It was a really sweet
moment because in so many countries thatI've been to, I'd really had to
stay on edge with my backpack infront of me and a fanny pack tucked
in under my jeans. And thiswas the first country that I've ever been
to where somebody noticed that my backpackwas open and they didn't steal, they
(29:33):
didn't do anything bad, but theyzipped it up for me. And I
think that is a pretty i thinkrepresentative example of the experiences that I had
in the country. So that's one, and in terms of other interactions with
locals, I think one that astory that I rarely told. I think
(29:56):
is how in terms of in mytravels, how I had an entire an
entire community all over the country whohelped me in my journey and helped me
in my travels, and that alot of the individuals who are university aged
and speak English and enjoy learning aboutAmerica in the West, a lot of
(30:18):
these people know each other. Andwhen I arrived in air Bill and I
met friends my age, they textedand called their friends all over the country
and had said, Julia's I metJulie. She's somebody who's worth helping.
Can you guys please look out forher? And in every city I went
to all over the country, frommost Soul in the most lad Ope in
(30:42):
the north to Boster in the south, there were always locals who were posting
me and looking out for me.And I'm not sure what I did to
deserve all of the kindness they gaveme, But I just had so many
advocates, and I wouldn't have beenable to do it without them. You
know, I think a lot ofpeople listening if they would have just seen
(31:02):
the title for this episode about travelingswho are rock, They're going to think,
Wow, this is a really outthere experience. But everything that you
were describing makes it seem so homeyand so hospitable. If there's one thing
you would want our listeners to knowabout Iraq, what would it be?
That's a big question. So inalmost every city I went to, the
(31:29):
Iraqis and the Kurds love to dance, and then they always find they often
might an excuse, any excuse todo so. So I would say almost
every single day in my trip,at some point somebody would turn on a
speaker or they would begin singing,and everybody would join in. And often
it's pinky to pinky lie and dancingthat is traditional in the area, and
(31:52):
everybody would get up and start dancing, and the moments were so full of
light and life, and I wasalways welcome to join in. And often
I think in the US, mytears have to be drunk or under some
type of influence to get up andstart dancing, or there has to be
a wedding or our kids and yetor a barbam and spar or kind of
(32:15):
a real reason. But not ina rack. And I think that a
country where everybody gets up every dayor multiple times a day, lakes Pinkies
welcomes the foreigners and starts dancing asa country that I think is worth visiting
or at least treating with an openmind. And I hope that if there
(32:37):
are any listeners who are listening tothe podcast right now, if the only
thing they take away is takeaway fromthe podcast is to look at communities that
maybe you don't know very much about, or haven't heard it out, or
might have negative perceptions about, totake a step back and to think,
okay, well, maybe there's morethan what meets be, and to look
(33:00):
at other people in other countries withan open mind. Then I think I'll
have achieved my mission for this podcast, or this series, or or this
life. I mean, I thinklooking at the world with an open mind
is really important. So I hopethat I know I didn't directly answer your
question, but I hope that somewhereclose to it, that was a better
(33:20):
response than anything you could have answereddirectly to my question. And So,
now, looking back, this hasbeen almost two years, give or take.
Are there any regrets or missed opportunitiesthat when you look back on your
time there you wish you would havetaken. Wow, that's not a question
anybody's ever asked me before, isthere anything that I miss? I you
(33:46):
know, I would say the answers. No. I visited almost every major
city in the country. I interactedwith hundreds of locals, I stand on
tens of individuals couches. I reallyfelt like I had a completely full experience,
and if I were to do itagain, I probably wouldn't have needed
to take as long to get toexperience the country. But it is.
(34:08):
There were challenges that came with travelingin the country, and there are so
many things that I learned on theway, But I yeah, if I
were to do it again, Iwouldn't have done one day Differently. Four
months is a long time. Ithink no one could ever question how much
of an immersive experience you had withthe Iraqis and their country. And so
(34:29):
kind of to wrap up here,I do have some fun and lighthearted,
rapid fire questions that I'd love toask you. Are you ready? I
am so ready? Okay. First, one favorite Rocky dish, Dolma.
Dolma is a it's a dish whereit's it's a vegetable. The outside is
a vegetable and the inside is arice, meat and spice combination delicious,
(34:53):
kind out of time sounds delicious.Favorite location you visited. I loved my
time in Mosul. Is there aspecific reason why the people in mos Soul
have gone have been through so much, but they're so positive, so welcoming.
The cuisine is great, There's somuch history in that area and there,
(35:15):
I really I was just overjoyed andastounded every single day I was there.
So I enjoyed at every city,but I go back to Mosul first
if I were to return. Favoriteactivity, whether it's outdoors, the dancing,
the eating, you name it.Favorite activity was listening to or playing
music. The music tradition in thecountry incredible. Any time I was around
(35:39):
live music and live instruments and singing, I was really happy. Number four.
A most surprising fact you learned aboutIraq while you were there. The
first written word was written in Rouq, Iraq, and that was a fact
that I didn't know and was veryimpressed by. I didn't know that as
well. Okay, And then towrap things up here, was it what
(36:02):
mainstream media told you rock was goingto be? Like? Definitely, not
not even close. Julie, thankyou so much for being a guest on
the Globe Chrotters Podcast. If ourguests want to learn a little bit more
about you, where can they findyou and learn more about your journey?
Thank you so much for having metoday, and if anybody listening wants to
(36:23):
find me, my YouTube and InstagramURLs are Julie from LI so that that's
how you can find me and Ihope to interaction be connected with anybody.
Anybody listening and if you want tofind out a little bit more about us,
you can find us on Instagram orFacebook at Globetrotters Podcasts or on our
(36:44):
website at www dot GTS podcast dotcom, where you can stream all of
our episodes for free. If youlike what you heard, drop us a
review. We always appreciated thanks forlistening. Who
You're listening to the Globetrotters podcast,the show dedicated to bringing you fresh and
diverse perspectives from traveling enthusiasts all overthe world. Here at the Globetrotters Podcast,
we hope to show that travel isso much more than how it's represented
on social media and television by bringingyou real stories, thoughtful discussions on ethical
issues, and investigations into how youcan make the most of an adventure without
(00:35):
breaking the bank. I'm your host, Jonathan o'diddo, and today we get
to share a story that, quitefrankly, is unlike anything I've ever heard
of, but is desperately needed inour efforts to present it on this perspective
on a specific group of people andcountry. Julie Kaplan, a young twenty
three year old student, took atwo year break from our university to work
(00:57):
abroad and eventually go on the fewtrips off the beaten path. In October
twenty twenty one, Julie's one weekendtrip to Iraq turned into four months.
That's right, you heard me.Forty eight hours turned into sixteen weeks.
In the country nicknamed the cradle ofcivilization, Julie filmed the twelve episode documentary
(01:17):
about her travels to provide a differentnarrative and perspective on Iraq, including its
rich history, culture, and amazinghospitality. Julie, it's a pleasure to
have you on the show, Jonathan, thank you for having me. That's
quite the introduction, and I'm soexcited to be here and to get to
chat more. Good And today Iam sporting my La hat in honor of
(01:38):
having another La native on the show. It's not too often I get to
say that, No, I lovethat hot. I was at the Dodgers
getting this past Monday, so I'mglad to see you're wearing here of the
home team good Blue. Before weget started, and we talked details of
this specific trip, Can you providea bit more context for our listeners on
what led you to ira I mentionedthat you took a two year gap to
(02:01):
work abroad and do some off thebeaten paths travel. Can you elaborate on
that experience a bit more. Definitely, I would be happy too. So
the broader context is that I wasa university student at Arizona State University,
and in the spring of twenty twenty, when COVID hit, I decided to
take a little bit of time offof school. I figured that in person
(02:25):
experiences, specifically abroad, would leadto a more fulfilling experience than zoom University.
So during my first year off,I worked in Switzerland and then in
Eastern Europe, and in my secondyear off, I decided to go travel
the countries that maybe we're a bitoff of the beaten path. I started
(02:46):
in Uzbekistan and then Kyrkistan, andthen I was really interested in visiting the
Middle East and specifically South Kurdistan.So that's how I ended up there.
And I've always been interested in theregion, largely due to its history,
because this is ancient Babylon and Sumeria. And I flew into air Bill and
(03:12):
when I arrived, I was justso surprised that I knew I needed to
spend a little bit more time tofurther explore. And so I have to
ask, because you know, thesearen't typically countries that a person at twenty
two twenty three is saying, Hey, let me go to this region of
a planet. How much experience didyou have traveling prior to your work abroad
(03:34):
in Switzerland and obviously the Eastern Europeancountries. That's a good question. I
think it's important to mention the prerequisiteof I come from a family of people
who love to travel. And aquick anecdote is, when I was a
kid, it was a tradition inmy family that the youngest of all of
(03:54):
my siblings I have three brothers,was in charge of navigation airports from the
time that we learned how to walkso at so at the age of five,
my family would go to airports oneor two hours before we needed to
be there, and whoever was youngesthad to figure out which gate we were
going to, and if we didn'tknow, we had to go talk to
(04:15):
the gate agent. So I wastrained from the time I was five.
No, you know what, shoutout to your parents. I've never thought
of doing that. That's probably somethingthat I'm going to incorporate into my life
when the time comes and I havekids. Good on them. No,
I appreciate it. And when Iwas in my youth, most of our
travels were visiting family across the USor road trips. And then it's probably
(04:41):
when I was seventeen eighteen that Ireally started to explore and my fresh after
my freshman year of college, Iworked as a bartender in Ireland. I
did a few trips on my ownor with family and friends to Southeast Asia,
to South America, and then ultimatelyin my trip when I was twenty
two twenty three, it's only donethat I really started to go to more
(05:05):
off the beaten path destinations. Whilewe're on the topic of family, I
really want to see what your familythought of this experience, because for our
listeners, I want to put thisin perspective about tourism in Iraq. You
know, I looked up some statisticsbefore this about global tourism in general.
There's roughly zero point zero two touristsper resident in Iraq, which ranks one
(05:30):
hundred and seventieth in the world outof all the qualifying nations, and in
comparison, the United States comes inat number three. So my question is
this, as a Westerner, whatwas the pushback, if any, that
you received from friends and family aboutvisiting Iraq. I mean, even now,
the US government advisory level for visitingIraq is read as in do not
(05:51):
travel due to ongoing threats of kidnappings, very high risk of violence, armed
conflict, and terrorist attacks. Thisis a big question, and I think
it's a really important one. Butmy family and friends, I think,
of course we're pretty worried about me, and I don't blame them because most
(06:13):
of the media that we read aboutthe Middle East and Iraq specifically that we've
been exposed to, it's been aboutwar and terror, and I would say,
probably most recently what we've heard aboutin Iraq was back in twenty fifteen
to twenty seventeen when Isis occupied aportion of the country, So most of
the media has been pretty negative.So I did start in Kurdistan, which
(06:35):
traditionally is more of a safe moreof a safe region, and my family
had very and they knew that Kurdistanwasn't a place where they would be worrying
about me, but it was whenI decided to go to Baghdad. I
think that there was worry, butI'm very grateful that those around me really
(06:55):
trust me. And what I sawon the ground was completely different from what
the news showed. And I willsay during my entire four month treat I
never truly felt like I was indanger or like there was a big security
like I had there was a bigsecurity threat. Now there were obstacles that
(07:15):
I had to face, but Iwouldn't say that I really felt like I
was in danger in a way thatpeople might have expected exactly. And I
think that's why this discussion is soimportant, because I'll be honest, I
think you're the only person I've evermet or at least that is disclosed that
they've gone to a rock. Soit's really important to kind of shed light
(07:36):
on what the experience is like,and especially from a Westerner's perspective. So
what sort of planning went into atrip like this? You know, we
talked about how this was supposed tobe a weekend visit, which I'm keen
to hear about, but it turnedinto four months. So what were the
initial plans and how did that morefull over time? To say that I
(07:56):
had a robust initial plan would beher statement. I knew that I blewoub
Kurdistan. I knew that I wantedto visit air Bill and from there,
and I would say for the entiretyof my trip, I really heavily relied
on locals. So when I arrivedto Narbel, I was very fortunate to
(08:16):
have some mutual friends who lived there, and they gave me the lowdown on
the best sites and places to see. You in sub Kurdistan, and I
started from there and then every stepalong the way. What is where I
went next was from the advice ofsomebody who I had previously met there.
And so you know, in regardsto actually making it to Iroq, you
(08:39):
mentioned in the pre interviewed discussion thatyou need visas for certain cities but not
for other territories. Was that throughlocal help too that you found that out
or is that from your own researchinto the country beforehand? So it's a
great question. When I traveled tothe country, was able to get a
(09:00):
visa on arrival for both Kurdistan andIraq Federal Iraq. So I flew into
air Bill, was able to geta visa, But in order for me
to travel to Federal Iraq, whichis then not Kurdistan part of the country,
I needed to fly. So Iflew from air Bill to Baghdad to
(09:20):
get another visa, and that Idid figure out on the ground. And
so I guess this is a questionI didn't think about asking. But now
since we're on the topic, areyou the type of person that does research
into a country before you go.Was it a different experience for Iraq?
So the way that I travel,is that I have must sis would be
(09:43):
nice to seize And then and thenyeah, yeah, i's avoid at all
costs, or if I have time, would be nice. So, for
example, in South Kurdistan, Ireally knew that I wanted to visit the
air Bill Citadel, which is oneof the oldest continuously habited kind of places
in the world. I knew Iwanted to see that. And I knew
(10:07):
I wanted to go to Lawlish,which is where the Yazidis have their ho
it's there I believe they're holiest site. So those two I knew I wanted
to see. And then before I'darrived, I had made a list of
some of the things that if Icould see would be great. That included
the mountains of Salimania and visiting Dahope. And then I'd made a little bit
(10:31):
of a list of Okay, whatis everything else that would be nice,
and and then I incorporated that withthe knowledge of locals, and I think
that shifted a few pieces around aswell. So I'd say, before a
trip, I always have defaults ofthings that I know I'm going to get
up and do, but I'm reallyreally open to incorporating what others, the
(10:52):
advice that other people have. Andso let's talk about the initial forty eight
hours, because, as you know, we've already touched time. It was
supposed to be a short trip.What did you see in those first forty
eight hours that convinced you to,you know, prolong the trip? Definitely.
So I arrived and I was pickedup at the airport by a friend
(11:13):
of a friend of a friend.So this is a friend from California's best
friends, I think ex boyfriend.I was from zaf Ghartistan. So a
mutual picks me up at the airportand immediately treated me like family. And
this is somebody who liked had nevermet, and they welcomed me into their
(11:35):
family's home and they and even thoughthey probably had less than six hours of
notice that I was arriving, theyprepared this elaborate feast for me. And
in my whole life, nobody's everprepared a piece for me. But I
was just shocked because I arrived inits air Villa is a beautiful city.
(11:56):
There's history, there's the cuisine,there's music, and just even in my
first forty eight hours, I sawall of these snippets. But again,
so vastly juxtaposed what I expected.I was full of surprise in my first
forty eight hours. And did younotice a level of excitement on the individuals
(12:18):
that you met on your first fortyeight hours to meet a Western, to
get FaceTime with Westerners? Or isthat something maybe more common than I'm assuming?
No, I mean it was.Everybody I met was so excited to
get to know me and to getto speak with me, and specifically to
get to show that their region iswarm and hospitable and not again, not
(12:39):
like what I might have expected.So I think people and even strangers would
come up to me because based atleast especially then, on the way that
I dressed, on the way thatI looked, people assumed or assumed they
kind of guest that I was aforeigner and would come up to me and
ask to practice their English or askif I needed anything. And yeah,
(13:01):
and every almost every verson I spoketo invited me into their homes said what
do you like to join us fortie or for a meal? Do you
need a place to stay? AndI just I'd never been anywhere like that.
That was just so hospitable, Yeah, exactly. Or we mentioned that
you have this incredible twelve part dot. Did you go to a rock with
(13:22):
maybe that having been a thought ordid that develop as your time progressed in
the country. No, so greatquestion. It definitely wasn't something that I
had expected to do before arriving.And to give a bit of context and
some of my fire travels, Ihad filmed short video kind of YouTube blog
(13:46):
type videos for fun. If Iwere traveling in a country and there was
something cool that I saw that Iwanted to show, I would film the
click video, and then when Icame to a rock. I think I
didn't start homing my ultimate twelve partseries until two or three weeks. In
the first few weeks, I wasjust traveling and really was just so excited
(14:09):
by what I was seeing. Andwhen I would call my friends and family
at home, they wouldn't believe me. I would say, I would say,
Wow, I just visited the MesopotamianMarshes, the largest wetland ecosystem in
the Middle East. They're so beautiful, there's there's they're just so incredible and
people people just had no idea athome, and again, like, why
(14:31):
would they have It's not something thisis a country that they likely have no
ties to why would they have heardabout the marshes? And I was just
so inspired that I decided, Okay, maybe maybe I have a story to
tell. Maybe if I maybe Icould show the country through my eyes and
(14:52):
maybe people would watch it. Andthat's where the inspiration behind the series came
from. Yeah, that's actually whatI was going to ask what your mo
ovation was for the Docky series.And obviously, you know, as someone
who has very limited I don't wantto say that. Maybe perspective is the
right term about Iraqi? Do Ithink most Westerners have this impression of Iraq
(15:13):
being or torn due to the tenyear plus conflict with the US. Is
that what you were seeing on theground or was it more I think a
lot of people perceive it to bethis dry, desert landscape that has buildings
that are like in rubble. ButI'm assuming that's not what you were experiencing
completely, And I think and thatwas a big goal of my videos,
(15:37):
was to show all of the differentpieces of the country. And for example,
before I arrived, I assumed itwas all desert. Little did I
know there were mountains with snow andlakes and marshlands and certainly there was dessert,
and so in terms of nature,Iraq is way more diverse than I
initially thought. But in terms ofbuildings that were kind of in rubble that
(16:03):
there are cities where buildings do aredestroyed. But I think let me give
you an example, and most so, which is a city in the north
of the country that was underries thisoccupation until twenty seventeen. And when you
do arrive and you go to theold town, lots of the buildings are
(16:23):
in rubble. But I don't thinkthat's where the story is. I think
the story is that when you lookaround, you see all of the so
many buildings that are being built,and you see people moving there, and
do you see the shops that existamong the rubble and you see the growth
and it being rebuilt. And Ithink in a rock, more than anywhere
(16:45):
else that I've ever traveled to,you can see the past blend with the
present in a really beautiful way.And whether it's the ancient history, for
example, the ruins of a roof, which is the land that the ruler
Guildamash fooled, you see that,and then within a few hours you can
be in a beautiful metropolitan modern relativelymodern city and or so, you know,
(17:11):
really ancient history, too recent conflictwithin the past ten years, and
the past and the present mixing isjust something that I didn't grow up with
and that I'm from Los Angeles,a relatively new part of the world,
and all it is is the present, and I I just loved getting to
see that duality beautifully said. Andyou've mentioned the Mesopotamian marshes a few times,
(17:36):
which I'm so glad that you did, because this is the question that
I'm going to ask you. Soin episode five, not to give too
much away to anyone listening, gocheck it out, but you're essentially fishing
at night and camping out in thewetlands of Iraq, and there's this moment
where you're around the campfire and you'retalking with several Iraqies and you ask what
is something people might not know aboutIraq or that they wouldn't expect, And
(18:00):
their response is that they simply wantpeople to educate themselves about Iraq and the
Rockies because the reality is different fromwhat you hear on the news. And
in other words, they just wantto be treated as humans, you know,
different than you and me, andI thought that was really powerful to
capture on tape. No thank you, And most travel bloggers that I've seen,
(18:22):
they hold their selfie camera up tothem and they show them experiencing whatever
country that they're in. And inIraq, although my blogs do have a
lot of my kind of personal experienceand it through my eyes, I really
tried my best to turn around thecamera as much as I could. And
I think there are a lot ofstories that I didn't want to tell myself
(18:47):
because I didn't feel that they weremy stories to share. But when he
saw statements like that from the Iraqisor from the Kurds that I met,
I thought it was a lot morepowerful than had I said than had I
just said the same thing. SoI'm glad you watched that, And that's
also one of my favorite scenes ofthe series. Yeah, I couldn't agree
(19:08):
more. And so, you know, I do want to talk about the
vlogging aspect and challenges of that,but it's not as interesting to me as
the actual experience of Iraq. Socan you talk a little bit about,
you know, the cultural differences andhow you adapted to those between being a
Westerner from La to Iraq. WhenI arrived. I think what was most
(19:30):
interesting to me is that it wasn'tthe differences that I initially noticed. It
was all of the similarities. Andespecially for the university aged people in my
age group, we wouldn't have theconversations that I had there were very similar
to the conversations that I have here. So I think there's so much in
common. There definitely are differences,for example, at the dinner table.
(19:57):
So dinner in a rap going tobe very different from in California, and
so at Interac often dinner you eatit on the flour or maybe on a
carpet or on a rug, andit's family style. And I am not
I don't have the biggest appetite inthe world. But so what would happen
if we would all be sitting andthen somebody, for usually the mother who
(20:19):
had cooked the meal, would servemy plate, and then I would eat
as much as I could, andthere would still be food left on the
plate, and then they would seethat I ate, and then they would
pile more and more onto my plate, and then at some point I would
go, no, no, no, I'm thank you so much your meal,
It's great. I'm so cool.And often but often me not finishing
my meal was perceived as an eatingrude or they would say, oh,
(20:42):
you don't like the food, whywhy aren't you eating more? And why
aren't you finishing? And I wouldgo, no, I love the food,
I just can't eat more. Andthe guests was always served first and
versus in for example, at homein California. In general, I'll serve
my own plate and then I'll onlytake as much as I know I'm going
to eat, and then I finishit and then the meal is over.
(21:03):
So I think there are a lotof small things like that that really were
a difference and I had to getused to and so that's one difference.
But again, yeah, there's justso much that I had in common as
well. Yeah, and I lovethat you answered in that way because I
think, you know, going forward, maybe I need to pose the question
differently and ask, you know,what were the similarities that you shared with
(21:23):
a different culture and as you weresharing that experience that was different for you.
To be honest with you, itsounded like my mom. You know,
I'm a Latino, and it justtotally sounded like something that my mom
would do. We obviously serve guestsfirst, and you know she's a cook,
so she piles on the food,which is like portions for two or
three people. And then if youdon't if you don't ask for seconds,
(21:47):
she assumes that you didn't like themeal. So I love that you shared
that know it. And it's agreat example that trouble and even the experience
of living is going to be sodifferent for every single family. And it's
really cool that certain cultures have certainsimilarities and others have total differences. And
that's what the beauty of travel isto figure out. Okay, things in
(22:10):
Iraq might be different from at home, but it's not necessarily better or worse.
And if I like something that theirculture does maybe better than what we
do at home, great I'll stealit. I'll bring that to my own
life. And an example of thatis the tea drinking culture. So in
Iraq, all breakfast after breakfast,lunch after lunch, and the afternoons and
(22:33):
the evenings before bed, they alwaysdrink tea and they call it high And
I thought, I'm a huge teadrinker, and I thought it was awesome
that I didn't need an excuse todrink tea. And it was a way
to send to sit and enjoy andspend time with people. And I think
often in the US we have scheduledcoffee chats that are thirty minutes long,
or scheduled tea breaks, and incorporatingtaking a step back and drinking something warm
(23:00):
into ones every daylight was awesome andI brought that to my own life.
And now I have my cattle.You can't see it here because I'm in
the dining room, but my kettleover there and my tea bags and I'm
cooking team way more off. AndI think that's one of the beautiful parts
of trouble is that you get todo that. And something else that I
saw in your Docky series that Iwant to ask you about or talk about
(23:22):
is you put yourself to work inthe market. So one of the things
that you tried doing is it isselling at a local market, and which
I won't tell the guests if youwere successful or not, but talk about
that experience a little bit because vseeing it, I mean, it put
a smile on my face, butit also made me like if I was
in your shoes, I'd be sonervous and not nervous to interact with locals,
(23:44):
but just to not be able todo it. No, I appreciate
you asking. So one of myfavorite parts all throughout Iraq, we're all
of the bazaars and bazaars. Soin the in the US, we don't
have those. We have supermarkets.Maybe farmers markets are the closest. That
closest we would get to bazaars.But I thought they were awesome. They
(24:04):
were full of they could be fullof animals or food or anything you can
think of being sold or sold inthese bazaars. And I was in most
Iraq, in the north, andI had friends who ran a dessert stand,
and they had said, truly,would you would you like to join
us behind and help us sell?And of course I said yes, and
(24:27):
so yes, I was behind.I was in for a few hours.
I was in charge of the Booklava, the book Clava stand, and oh
I John, I took my rolein very seriously. And I you know,
I go book Claulama and I thinkI got a lot of stairs.
And I will not disclose how longit took me to make my first and
(24:49):
potentially only sail, but I didsell at least one at least one piece
of dessert, and it was justso much fun and it was great to
get to have a little bit oftime as a sales as a clap a
saleswoman. Definitely. And do youever feel any specifically in this situation,
(25:11):
any pressure that you are acting asa pseudo ambassador for our country while you're
out there. That's a great question. And as a tourist, that's something
that I took. I think youhave a massive responsibility when you're serving as
a representative of your country, ofyour gender. I was a representative of
so many things, not only ina rap but in my travels more broadly.
(25:34):
And that's actually one of the reasonswhy I studied global politics and university,
because I figured, if I loveto travel and I want to represent
my country, I really need tounderstand how it works and what our government
looks like and what our country's historyis because when people ask, I need
(25:55):
to know the answer, and that'smy responsibility. So absolutely every interaction I
had, I was completely aware thatI might be the only American that these
that anybody I meet ever meets.And if that case, how do I
want to represent myself and how doI want to represent my country? And
(26:15):
It's that's a responsibility that I takevery seriously. I hope that I was
a positive representation of all the groupsthat I represent. A lot of the
time you relied on, you know, friends or friends of friends to get
around, usually with people you hadnever met before. How easy or difficult
was it to communicate with other individuals? Was English more widely spoken than you
(26:40):
would have assumed? Those are moregreat questions. Yes, I've definitely relied
heavily on locals. Many of theindividuals who are younger, so in their
twenties and their keens, twenties,thirties, had awesome English fluency, and
I was able to communicate just aswell as my friends back at home.
(27:00):
So there were many people who,yeah, who spoke English, and that
was awesome. There were definitely partsof the country where English was not as
widely spoken, specifically in the morerural areas, and in those situations would
I communicated with my limited Arabic orKartish skills, neither of which I learned
(27:22):
ahead of time, But I'm prettypretty good at picking languages up on the
go. I would, yeah,I would use the skills that I had.
I would use Google Translate and ifI were really in a situation where
I needed to communicate and I didn'thave a translator with me, then I
would call up a friend that Ihad and have them helped communicate on the
(27:42):
dodge over the phone. So Idon't I really can't think of any situations
where I was really left where Iwasn't able to communicate with someone. There
was always multiple options to be ableto communicate. And I asked that question
because I kind of knew that thiswas going to be the answer, more
or less, so I kind ofbaited you into that answer, but just
(28:04):
because I want our listeners to know, because I think a real fear that
I hear often about travel in generalis not being able to communicate with that
country or those people, the localsthere. And you know, you just
kind of summed up a few differentways in which they can approach that situation
if they wanted to communicate. Sonow, no, thank you for that,
(28:25):
No, of course, And solet's talk a little bit more about
your experiences with the locals. Ifyou could share a meaningful time or two
in which you had an interaction thatmaybe isn't recorded or talked about in your
docuseries, but it was very impactfulto you. We would that experience have
been. The first story that comesto mind was when I was in a
(28:48):
bizarre and I felt my backpath bezipped and Jonathan, I'm sure, as
you know, as somebody who lovesto travel, if you feel any type
of colo on your backpack, yourfirst feeling of your heart jumping into your
throat. And I whipped around andthere was a young boy who had looked
at me and then fluid English said, your backpack was unzipped, I just
(29:12):
wanted to sip it up for you, and that It was a really sweet
moment because in so many countries thatI've been to, I'd really had to
stay on edge with my backpack infront of me and a fanny pack tucked
in under my jeans. And thiswas the first country that I've ever been
to where somebody noticed that my backpackwas open and they didn't steal, they
(29:33):
didn't do anything bad, but theyzipped it up for me. And I
think that is a pretty i thinkrepresentative example of the experiences that I had
in the country. So that's one, and in terms of other interactions with
locals, I think one that astory that I rarely told. I think
(29:56):
is how in terms of in mytravels, how I had an entire an
entire community all over the country whohelped me in my journey and helped me
in my travels, and that alot of the individuals who are university aged
and speak English and enjoy learning aboutAmerica in the West, a lot of
(30:18):
these people know each other. Andwhen I arrived in air Bill and I
met friends my age, they textedand called their friends all over the country
and had said, Julia's I metJulie. She's somebody who's worth helping.
Can you guys please look out forher? And in every city I went
to all over the country, frommost Soul in the most lad Ope in
(30:42):
the north to Boster in the south, there were always locals who were posting
me and looking out for me.And I'm not sure what I did to
deserve all of the kindness they gaveme, But I just had so many
advocates, and I wouldn't have beenable to do it without them. You
know, I think a lot ofpeople listening if they would have just seen
(31:02):
the title for this episode about travelingswho are rock, They're going to think,
Wow, this is a really outthere experience. But everything that you
were describing makes it seem so homeyand so hospitable. If there's one thing
you would want our listeners to knowabout Iraq, what would it be?
That's a big question. So inalmost every city I went to, the
(31:29):
Iraqis and the Kurds love to dance, and then they always find they often
might an excuse, any excuse todo so. So I would say almost
every single day in my trip,at some point somebody would turn on a
speaker or they would begin singing,and everybody would join in. And often
it's pinky to pinky lie and dancingthat is traditional in the area, and
(31:52):
everybody would get up and start dancing, and the moments were so full of
light and life, and I wasalways welcome to join in. And often
I think in the US, mytears have to be drunk or under some
type of influence to get up andstart dancing, or there has to be
a wedding or our kids and yetor a barbam and spar or kind of
(32:15):
a real reason. But not ina rack. And I think that a
country where everybody gets up every dayor multiple times a day, lakes Pinkies
welcomes the foreigners and starts dancing asa country that I think is worth visiting
or at least treating with an openmind. And I hope that if there
(32:37):
are any listeners who are listening tothe podcast right now, if the only
thing they take away is takeaway fromthe podcast is to look at communities that
maybe you don't know very much about, or haven't heard it out, or
might have negative perceptions about, totake a step back and to think,
okay, well, maybe there's morethan what meets be, and to look
(33:00):
at other people in other countries withan open mind. Then I think I'll
have achieved my mission for this podcast, or this series, or or this
life. I mean, I thinklooking at the world with an open mind
is really important. So I hopethat I know I didn't directly answer your
question, but I hope that somewhereclose to it, that was a better
(33:20):
response than anything you could have answereddirectly to my question. And So,
now, looking back, this hasbeen almost two years, give or take.
Are there any regrets or missed opportunitiesthat when you look back on your
time there you wish you would havetaken. Wow, that's not a question
anybody's ever asked me before, isthere anything that I miss? I you
(33:46):
know, I would say the answers. No. I visited almost every major
city in the country. I interactedwith hundreds of locals, I stand on
tens of individuals couches. I reallyfelt like I had a completely full experience,
and if I were to do itagain, I probably wouldn't have needed
to take as long to get toexperience the country. But it is.
(34:08):
There were challenges that came with travelingin the country, and there are so
many things that I learned on theway, But I yeah, if I
were to do it again, Iwouldn't have done one day Differently. Four
months is a long time. Ithink no one could ever question how much
of an immersive experience you had withthe Iraqis and their country. And so
(34:29):
kind of to wrap up here,I do have some fun and lighthearted,
rapid fire questions that I'd love toask you. Are you ready? I
am so ready? Okay. First, one favorite Rocky dish, Dolma.
Dolma is a it's a dish whereit's it's a vegetable. The outside is
a vegetable and the inside is arice, meat and spice combination delicious,
(34:53):
kind out of time sounds delicious.Favorite location you visited. I loved my
time in Mosul. Is there aspecific reason why the people in mos Soul
have gone have been through so much, but they're so positive, so welcoming.
The cuisine is great, There's somuch history in that area and there,
(35:15):
I really I was just overjoyed andastounded every single day I was there.
So I enjoyed at every city,but I go back to Mosul first
if I were to return. Favoriteactivity, whether it's outdoors, the dancing,
the eating, you name it.Favorite activity was listening to or playing
music. The music tradition in thecountry incredible. Any time I was around
(35:39):
live music and live instruments and singing, I was really happy. Number four.
A most surprising fact you learned aboutIraq while you were there. The
first written word was written in Rouq, Iraq, and that was a fact
that I didn't know and was veryimpressed by. I didn't know that as
well. Okay, And then towrap things up here, was it what
(36:02):
mainstream media told you rock was goingto be? Like? Definitely, not
not even close. Julie, thankyou so much for being a guest on
the Globe Chrotters Podcast. If ourguests want to learn a little bit more
about you, where can they findyou and learn more about your journey?
Thank you so much for having metoday, and if anybody listening wants to
(36:23):
find me, my YouTube and InstagramURLs are Julie from LI so that that's
how you can find me and Ihope to interaction be connected with anybody.
Anybody listening and if you want tofind out a little bit more about us,
you can find us on Instagram orFacebook at Globetrotters Podcasts or on our
(36:44):
website at www dot GTS podcast dotcom, where you can stream all of
our episodes for free. If youlike what you heard, drop us a
review. We always appreciated thanks forlistening. Who
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