September 23, 2024 • 50 mins
Globetrotters hosts Jon and Max explore the intersection of mental health and psychedelic retreats with Adam Miezio, a Psychedelic Content Writer with a background in mass media and a unique personal journey. Adam delves into the connection between psychedelics and mental wellness, dispelling common misconceptions and sharing his transformative experiences at retreats from Guatemala to Austin.
Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared in this episode reflect one individual's personal journey and are not intended as medical or professional health advice. Please consult with a healthcare professional before making any decisions related to mental health or psychedelic treatments.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/globetrotters-podcast--5023679/support.
Disclaimer: The views and experiences shared in this episode reflect one individual's personal journey and are not intended as medical or professional health advice. Please consult with a healthcare professional before making any decisions related to mental health or psychedelic treatments.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/globetrotters-podcast--5023679/support.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
You're listening to the Globetrotters podcast, and today we have
something a little bit different for y'all. I'm your host
John o'tero.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
And I'm maximil Gonzalez.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Today we have Adam with us and we're going to
be talking about psychedelic retreats, both a broad and domestic.
Adam is a writer in the psychedelics field thanks to
lifelong psychedelic journeying and plant medicine work. He's written for
The Psychedelic Support, Psychedelics Today, and Reality Sandwich, among others.
(00:44):
Born in Chicago, he received his master's degrees from Northeastern
Illinois University in Mass Media, persuasion and Propaganda, completing a
thesis about the Heaven's Gate coal which we could have
a huge side conversation about that, but I'll stay on point.
Adam enjoys writing, obviously, particularly about mental health, psychedelics, and shamanism.
(01:07):
He now resides in Wajaka, Mexico, and enjoys putting moles
on his passport, learning about indigenous cultures, hiking the national
parks like us, and exploring ancient ruins. Adam, thank you
for being a guest on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Thank you very much for having me here, Max and Jonathan,
it's an honor glad to speak with you.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, before we get a little too deep into this conversation,
would you mind giving our listeners a two minute crash
course on what psychedelic retreats are and how they work.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yeah. Sure, So in case anybody doesn't know, let's try
and compress this as best as I can. Psychedelics, obviously,
are compounds plant medicines that stimulate psychedelic experiences. In US,
the word psychedelic means mind manifesting. It's actually a portmanteau
(02:02):
of two Latin words. So these are mind manifesting compounds
and chemicals that work on our psyche. And our psyche
is our mind, body, and soul. They amplify what's already
there in your psyche, and at the same time they
offer us opportunities to have mystical experiences like AWE. For example,
(02:26):
AWE is a very important concept and a very interesting,
interesting one to me. I think you know, for a
long long time in the United States, we've been saying, oh,
you're awesome, Oh this is awesome, and we've kind of
lost the true meaning of what awe actually is. So
psychedelics can give us that experience of experiencing awe and
(02:48):
then of course these things, these types of experiences and
opportunities to work in our psyche are made available to
us at psychedelic retreats.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
It We're all curious about your journey into the world
of psychedelics, What sparked your interest, how did you get
into them?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Initially, honestly, it wasn't ending wholesome and he has the
biggest grin in the world right now. It was nothing good.
My first year of college, I left Chicago when I
was eighteen. I went to university in Florida because I
originally was trying to become a marine biologist, and I
(03:28):
did something I thought i'd never do. I joined the fraternity, which, actually,
as bad as that sounds and I never wanted to do,
it ended up being a very interesting experience because I
joined the fraternity that was the fraternity of all the
guys that didn't fit and clicks or didn't fit the
other fraternities. So I wasn't in like the rich guy fraternity.
I wasn't in the jock fraternity. It was all the
(03:51):
kind of like loaners and rejects and really unique individuals.
In my fraternity, and in my fraternity there was a
kind of a subculture or a subset of guys that
were like hippies, really really smart hippies, and you know,
they had psychedelics, They had LSD and mushrooms, and so
you know, of course I wanted to fit in and
(04:11):
kind of be cool like the big guys. And yeah,
when I was eighteen in Florida, I tried siloside and
LSD for the first time. So even though it was
maybe not in the most wholesome context and it was
definitely recreational, since the first time after using them, I
just knew there was something more to them and a
(04:33):
special kind of magical quality that, if youse correctly, can
really be healthy and beneficial for some tea for yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
And Adam helped. Let's take this trip down memory lane.
Let's go back to eighteen year old you. What was
your preconception of what psychedelics were, What was your understanding
of them at that point in time?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Really nothing, really nothing at all. I went to an
all boys Catholic high school, so I was very very
straight edged and straight paced, and you know, obviously any
kinds of you know, whether you want to call them
drugs or psychedelics or medicine. That was all very frowned upon.
And I mean we're talking this is the nineteen nineties.
(05:21):
In the nineteen nineties, you pretty much could have been
excommunicated or blackballed if you know, you were honest or
open about that in public. So I really didn't know
much about them at all, and I just went into
it with an open mind and an open heart, and
you know, spent a long time probably not using them
(05:42):
in the best way. But quickly, yeah, like I said,
quickly learn that there's something more to them than mainstream
culture teaches them.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And the reason that I asked that question is because
you know, fast forward these next what thirty four years,
thirty years, let's say, there's been some breakthroughs in how
psychedelics are perceived or how they're used in relation to
mental health. And so I guess you know, as of today,
what are some of the most common misconceptions about psychedelics
(06:15):
that you encounter are most commonly here.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I'd say two of the most common ones. One is
that psychedelics are a magic bullet. And what I mean
by that is this current psychedelic revival that we're living
in and experiencing. You know, it's shifted. Obviously, psychedelics were
painted in a whole different manner in the sixties and
(06:41):
into the seventies, and then you know, obviously they went underground,
you know, thanks to Richard Nixon and a lot of
the laws that were passed in the seventies. So I
think for decades they're misunderstood, and now that they're you know,
having this reviible, they've re emerged in this healing context,
which is entirely novel to the West. This type of
(07:06):
idea of using them in a healing context isn't anything
new to indigenous cultures, non Western cultures and societies. Important, Yeah,
and it seems like, you know, we kind of made
much like myself and my own personal life, you know,
as a country, as a culture in the United States,
we've already made those adolescent mistakes maybe in the in
(07:28):
the sixties and into the seventies, and now we've kind
of maybe matured and grown and evolved aule bit and
understand our relationship with these medicines and compounds better. So
that said, the danger now with a lot of people
is they a lot of people tend to think they're
a magic bullet. So you know, people suffering from some
(07:51):
kind of mental health disorder or issue or maybe trauma
or this or that or whatever it is, they think
that you can maybe take psychedelics, and you know, it's like,
like I said, a magic bullet. You pop a pill
and then boom, you're cured, your remedied, your field, and
that's not how they work. And then kind of on
the coattails of that, I think the other risk is
(08:15):
a lot of people believe that the magic of psychedelics
is the experience itself, the psychedelic journey itself, which I
mean that is absolutely magical and special, and that's a
big part of it. However, I can definitely say with
confidence after working with plant medicine a lot the actual
(08:38):
real breakthroughs and revelations and growth they come after the experience.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I did want to ask, when did you stop using
psychedelics recreationally and started doing them more so for therapeutic purposes.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I would say kind of around twenty sixteen. I started
gradually shifting and realizing the spiritual, psycho spiritual potential and
power of psychedelics more and started started using them alone
often and frequently in national parks. I love going to
(09:17):
national parks and hiking and you know, communing with nature
and those times, those opportunities when you can maybe use
psychedelics alone in nature, it's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
What do you think it was about twenty sixteen? Was
it just your stage of life or was there you know,
is there more context to what happened that year that
you started shifting.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
It was a blend of things. I was in up
until I forgot which month in twenty sixteen. I think
it was early fall. I was living in Florida, and
then I moved to Austin, Texas, and I was kind
of starting a new chapter of my life. And the
Austin kind of gave me a lot of opportunities for
(10:04):
growth in a variety of ways. And as many people
might know, Austin, I would say is probably a top
three psychedelic subculture city in the United States.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I did not know that.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, yeah, I would say obviously Denver is up there,
you know Portland people would say San fran Obviously. I
think San Frian is a little bit more symbolic now
I think some of these others are starting to overtake it.
But yeah, Austin is a huge, huge city. For psychedelics,
So there's some interesting opportunities there for personal development and growth.
(10:40):
And coming out of Florida, I had gone through a
very very rough period in my life because my mom
was terminal and she was dying and I was a
full time caregiver for six years, so I was looking
to kind of grow out of that. I think it
was Nietzsche, the German philosopher who has this idea of
(11:02):
post traumatic growth, that these opportunities, these huge trials and
tribulations and setbacks that we explained some life offer us
opportunities for growth and for expansion, and Austin doing that
opportunity to take it.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
You brought up retreats again. I kind of want to
circle back to that. Psychedelic retreats are something we've discussed
on the show before, but we've never had a guest
to actually be on the show for the topic of
psychedelic retreats and you have that firsthand. So generally speaking,
why would someone go on a psychedelic retreat, What do
you think the benefits are, Why do you think it's
(11:36):
different than doing it recreationally. What would someone who's interested
in this have to look forward to when signing up?
Or going on a psychedelic re treat.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
To steal a line from the famous with psychologist Carl Young,
I would say, to find your soul. I think we
live in very interesting times. It's kind of like that
old Chinese proverb may live in interesting times, which is
simultaneously a curse and a blessing. I think we're having
(12:07):
a real crisis in the West, especially the United States,
and I think part of that crisis and the chaos
and uncertainty that we're experiencing in these times results from
or is rooted in a lack of connection to our soul.
We've been kind of sold a bill of goods, almost
(12:29):
literally pun intended, because we live in this culture and
society of mass consumption, materialism, consumerism, and these things have
really disconnected us from our soul. And these opportunities to
go on retreats to reconnect with soul just hugely, hugely
(12:50):
beneficial for individuals. And then I think as more individuals
do that, it then refinds our society, our society, and
our culture and really connects us to what's the most
meaningful in our lives.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
I love that response, by the way. I'm I'm a
huge fan of trying to not take lives too seriously,
but also really trying to dive into it and figure
out what the purpose is. And often or not you
can't actually figure that out. So yeah, love it and Adam.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Obviously, when you go on these retreats, you meet a
lot of interesting people. Would you say there's a certain
type or personality trait that you or maybe even kind
of this longing for finding of the soul that tends
to bind people together or kind of a better way
of phrasing, it's something that they're looking for that you
(13:45):
can kind of say, Yeah, most people that go on
this have that similarity or that piece missing.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
That's difficult. I would generally say no, that there isn't
the lowest common denominator. I mean there is, but maybe
not in that way. Like I think everybody is essentially
looking for the same thing. But it's it's just very
very broad. You know, it's it's you know, coming back
(14:13):
home to soul. But underneath that umbrella, everybody maybe has
separate distinct reasons or intentions. But in the end, you know,
everybody's trying to, yeah, like go back home, so it
draws in you know, a full spectrum of people you know,
whether it's aged, you know, race, gender, sex, ethnicity, nationality,
(14:38):
and you get a whole mix of people.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well, let's not keep our listeners waiting even more. Let's
talk about this experience, or like your first experience. Back
in twenty eighteen, you did your first psychedelic retreat near
Lake Atitlan and Guatemala. Why then, what was the intent
behind your journey?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Okay, So this is where psychedelics can get to be fun.
It's kind of a I feel like a dangerous thing
to say nowadays, because there's you know, firmly placed in
this healing context. But they can be fun and unexpected
and magical. So there's a very famous HUNTERSS Thompson Mine,
you know, the iconoclassic American author. He was talking to
(15:21):
a friend once about doing LSD, and a Hunter said
to his friend, you don't find LSD. LSD finds you
when it thinks you're ready. And this is very true psychedelics.
It seems that sometimes psychedelics almost have their own consciousness.
So in twenty eighteen, I was living in Austin and
(15:43):
I was already meditating daily, doing yoga, daily journaling. I
also got into floating float therapy what most sensory deprivation tanks.
So I was going down this path already, and I
have a to meet someone through my float center that
I went to and we began talking, and of course
(16:09):
immediately psychedelics and plant medicine came up, and one thing
led to another, and that led to ayahuasca. And this
person mentions me, oh, I could take care of that
for you, and I was like, WHOA. I wasn't even
looking for you know, I wasn't even trying, and it
just appeared in my life. And that's usually the best
sign is when you know, plant medicines and psychedelics find you.
(16:32):
It's it's a very authentic, genuine moment. That's usually kind
of I would say, a cosmic sign not to sound
too goobu, that you're green for go and that you're
ready to tackle this experience. So I ended up, yeah,
getting invited to go on a retreat, an ayahuasca retreat
per week in Guatemala, and my intention was, I would
(16:54):
say it was too full. One was to try and
sort out some things in regards to my family dynamics,
coming off the heels of my mom passing away and
digging deep into my nuclear family relationships, and then also
(17:15):
spiritual exploration. I had previously, I had smoked DMT, but
there were a few things that I hadn't explored yet,
which were ayahuasca and gupo. So this was a real,
real big step up for me. I'd always I had
known about ayahuasca since my twenties for a long long time,
and I knew it was taking a very big step up.
(17:37):
So I felt like I was ready and I was
prepared and it was the right time.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Kind of diving into the logistics of finding these retreats,
I assume you did research on which retreats and companies
that organize these kind of experiences had to offer. Why
did you choose the one you did? Was there anything
to look out for in that sense for someone who
might be interested in looking for retreat themselves.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Is it that simple that that person told you, hey,
let's this is the retreat to go check out and
you were sold.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, that was the thing. Yeah. I really didn't do
any research at all, which I think is probably very
atypical and I wouldn't recommend that for most people. But
you know, when you're going on a psychedelic retreat, you're
doing a type of you know, psychic surgery or soul surgery,
and so you really really want to trust, you know,
(18:30):
the shamans and the organizers of that retreat. So I
got exceptionally lucky with meeting this friend in Austin and
being able to spend some time with him and actually
become friends beforehand, and you know, learned that I could
trust him and I had nothing to worry about. You know.
I think that's the best way to go with any
(18:53):
psychedelic retreat is to know the people you're working with,
the practitioners of therapists, the shamans, whoever they are forehand,
I mean, because there are unknown still uh with the
digital world and solely relying on reviews online and things
of that sort. So I always recommend best case scenario
for anyone is to make a connection with people ahead
(19:16):
of time and get to know whom to work.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, word of mouth is definitely a good one to
go by in terms of trust, right, kind of staying
on the logistic side of things, generally, how do how
does the structure of these retreats work? Kind of going
from committing to it, purchasing your spot in it, and
then maybe the daily structure of them is can you
(19:39):
elaborate a little bit on the rhythm of those.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
To add to what Max said. You know, you already
mentioned a few different professionals that would be in attendance
that I didn't even consider. Obviously, I was expecting a shaman,
but you also said therapists, practitioners, and so that that
got in my mind wondering.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah, so it's going to kind of depend on the
type of retreat because as psychedelics become more mainstream and
increasingly become legalized, there's gonna be more above ground retreats,
and those are gonna have to be more standardized and
have more medical oversight, so there might be more therapists
(20:19):
involved with that.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You said above ground retreats, do you mean like kind
of a legitimate like there's some that are maybe less
less legitimate than others.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Or I wouldn't Maybe legitimate isn't the right word. I
think the right word would be legal, because there's already
legal silos Iban retreats in Oregon, for example, and they're
gonna have to probably have medical staff, therapists and things
like that. But you know, there's probably already countless underground
(20:51):
retreats across the United states which don't require a therapists
and the extent of medical oversight with them and above
ground retreat is going to require. So as far as
underground retreats are concerned, and especially almost all the retreats
outside of the United States are going to be quote
unquote underground. But the good things to look for beforehand
(21:14):
is some kind of interview that you would do with
the Shamans. For example, they're going to send you a
survey and they're going to ask you about your mental health,
your physical health, and things like this. Then you're going
to send it back to them. They're also going to
ask you about your intentions, why do you want to
(21:34):
do this work, what are you looking what are you
looking for? What are you looking to answer? And then
after that they usually do some kind of screening call
with you, which is a really good sign. You know,
for maybe a half an hour to an hour, and
so you get to know who you work with, they
get to know what you're about. And then after that,
in a i'd say month prior to the retreat, you
(21:58):
have to start working on yourself. It in terms of
eating right and really cleaning up your diet and also
getting off of all drugs and or medications. There's kind
of two big categories of mental health that people are
usually pre empted from doing a retreat, which is bipolar
(22:20):
at schizophrenia. But aside from that, you're strongly encouraged to
get off all, you know, whether the recreational drugs or
prescription drugs. And then the only other thing is sometimes
there's complications or contra indications with heart medication. But as
long as you pass through those filters or you're usually
(22:43):
get to go. And then as far as the actual retreat,
you know, they can differ, but generally in a broad sense.
You know, you wake up in the morning, usually have
some free time to yourself to do whatever I then
have breakfast, and then commonly afterwards there's going to be
an integration circle for an hour or two where you
(23:05):
discuss as a group your experiences from the previous night's
ceremony to help integrate and figure out what you just
what your psycholic journey was about. Thin you know, in
the afternoon, there might be like a little event planned
or something, maybe a height somewhere in nature in the jungle,
may swimming something like this, and then just more free
(23:27):
time and then maybe you'll have a light dinner and
then usually buy I don't know, a sunset or around there.
It'll start getting ready for that night's ceremony, which will
be anywhere between I don't know, six to eight hours
of fun too.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, I just want to back up a little bit.
I love the fact that I never considered this, that
a retreat organization would have interviews before going. I think,
I don't know why, Like, I find that so fascinating
that they're putting that much care and intention in having
your spot or your experience be like, you know, for you,
(24:05):
so they know to look for. I think that's just
really really cool.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah it is. It's it's great to individualize the experience
for you, and then you know, it just engenders a
lot of trust and comfort and so you're not totally
plunging into the unknown, and then you get a feel
for each other and yeah, yeah, it's definitely a really
big green flag.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
MH.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Is the purpose of let's say, getting off any type
of medication. I would assume, like caffeine is included in
that list.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Maybe yeah, it doesn't have to be, but it should be. Yeah,
Like you have to really clean everything out of your system,
so almost Prior to any ayahuasca retreat, you have to
do what's called a deta. You know, it's the Spanish
word or diet. And there's two different kinds. I say,
(24:55):
there's a lowercase D dieta and then there's a capital
D dieta. So the lowercase D dieta is what's required
for everyone. You have to you know, eat organic, very clean,
try and not eat any food with processed anything processed
in it any you know, additives, preservatives, you know, none
of that stuff. You have to for the week prior
(25:19):
get off of you know, caffeine. You're not supposed to
eat red meat, like almost eliminate sugar, you know, anything
that's really enjoyable. Alcohol of course, nothing like this. Uh,
no smoking anything of any kind. And that's the basic requirement.
But then sometimes at HIGHWA WASP retreats you're given the
options to do the capital D dieta, which I call
(25:43):
them doing the monk life. It is very very uh
what would be the work maybe like Spartan. Uh, there's
no sugar, no caffeine, and the big thing is no salt.
You so for visical Yeah, so for the week long
retreat I did in Guatemala, and like an I did
(26:04):
the capital ddetta and it's all kind of like what
they say white food. You have the rice fish chicken
that's all unseasoned. You can't even drink tea. You can
have hot tea as long as there's no caffeine in
it and no salt. And I had never lived in
my life without salt before, and it's a very strange,
(26:27):
interesting experience to live for a week without salt.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, you just said unseasoned chicken. In my heart like
crumbled a little bit.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I mean all of these things like, yeah, I would
have imagined that some of these things to wean off
of are a little bit harder than others. Like from
a taste perspective, I would hate to do the no
salt thing, but it wouldn't beat me at least for
me personally, like that heart of a thing. But for
someone that's a chronic smoker or alcoholic, really breaking that
(27:00):
cycle is I would imagine it's quite difficult. Is there
any sort of like coaching or you know, peer that
is helping you through that experience where it's really on
yourself to clean it up before you get there?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
No, Like, well, it's mostly on yourself prior to arriving
at the retreat. You know, that's one of the big
kind of rules of thumb in terms of psychedelic retreat work.
The more you put in, the more you're gonna get out.
So leading up to the retreat, you know, you really
have to make an honest effort to keep yourself, you know,
on that dieta because you're going to get more out
(27:39):
of the retreat because what you really want to do
is you want to turn your body into a blank
canvass for the plant medicine to paint on and to work.
It's art, so it's difficult. But then when you're actually
at the retreat, you know you can get help from
the retreat leaders, the shamans if you're struggling with anything. Fortunately,
(28:02):
I just kind of bit the bullet and got through
it on my own. And yeah, it's like the monk
like because additionally, for the Capital d Deza, you can't
use any kind of toilet trees that are inorganic or
have any chemicals in them or anything like that. So
like soap, toothpaste, deodorant, you either don't use it or
(28:26):
have to use like very special types. And then on
the third day, I think it was the Wednesday of
that week. I wasn't allowed to talk. I had to
be in silence for twenty four hours, so no salt,
silence like no chemicals. It's it was a very interesting
experience combining that with the plants.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Wait, just to clarify really quick, the capital DDA is
that your thing or is that a known thing in
the No, that's a knowing.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I don't know how many retreats offer that. I would
imagine a lot of them, but it is definitely a
level up. You're definitely dialing up the intensity of your retreat.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Okay, So someone were to ask for like about the
capital d Dietta, they would the people at the retreat
would know what they're.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Talking about, Yeah, I would hope.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So yeah, all right, cool, that's a good litmus test,
I guess to see the quality exactly right. Yeah, let's
talk about the first ceremony. What was the experience like
for you?
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Uh, well, I definitely would say I was excited. I mean,
it's a little bit difficult not to be excited to
do something like this, and at the same time, you know,
there's definitely some nerves and I definitely had a little
a little ball of anxiety deep in my in my gut,
you know, because it's psychedelical, like buy the ticket, take
(29:56):
the ride. You never know what they're going to bring up.
You know, they run the full gamut of the spectrum
of human experience and even beyond things that we know
are even possible or imaginable. And so you get tucked in,
so to speak, because everybody has to make what's called
(30:18):
a nest. I When I was doing this in Guatemala,
we were on this kind of like in this huge
outdoor kind of gazebo type space that had a roof
over it, but it was open to the lake and
to the nearby volcanoes and you could still see the
stars and hear birds at night and things like this.
But you have to make a nest on the floor,
(30:40):
which is just your own little pile of blankets and
pillows and cushions and yoga mats to lie in to
get comfortable while you're working with the medicine. So you know,
as you get closer to actually taking the medicine, you
know those nerves and you know that little fear of
the unknown builds in you and then uh, you actually
(31:01):
take the first dose of medicine, which in my case
was served in shot glass. And uh, it's there's almost
nothing that tastes worse in the world. It is so
god awful taste and bitter. It's it's it's really a leched,
horrible thing to put in your mouth.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And this is ayahuasca you were talking about.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's this kind. Uh, it's like a
thick it's somewhere between like a motor oil and a
thick brownie batter.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Ah, that sounds terrible. I was actually going to make
a joke. Was it worse than the un seasoned chicken?
Speaker 3 (31:34):
But yeah, yes, in your throat. And that's another interesting
thing to know. Some retreats have different rules about drinking water.
You should be able to drink some amount of water
during the ceremony, but maybe not a lot. So you're
not allowed to do a lot during the ceremony except
go to the bathroom, maybe drink a little bit of
(31:57):
water or rinse your mouth out, because you have to
get rid of that horrible after taste and that coating
in your mouth and throat. And then also everybody's given
a roll of toilet paper in a bucket because you know,
of course, the most common things that happened during an
ayahuasca ceremony is what's known as purging, and that can
be either you know, vomiting and or diarrhea, So those
(32:21):
things be ready for that.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
You take the medicine. How long does it take to
kick in?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
That depends on a person by person basis. Sometimes it
kicks in really fast for people, you know, maybe twenty minutes,
maybe less than a half an hour. I would say
that's the exception. For me. It's done that for me
a few times, but I have slow uptakes, so it
usually takes me a minimum of forty five minutes, usually
closer to an hour.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
And do people get to choose how intense they want
this retreat experience to be? Is it just one dosage
across the board for everyone or how does that work?
Speaker 3 (33:01):
No, it's definitely customized and personalized. So would you go
up to the shaman in the ceremony space, he'll usually
have what's called unemesa, which is basically a Spanish word
it's used to mean alter, and he'll have a little
altar set up on the floor where you go up
(33:22):
and receive the medicine, and usually you'll have like a brief,
little kind of private conversation with the shaman, and he'll
ask you about your previous plant medicine and or psychedelic experiences,
and you know what you've used, how much you've used,
what kind of experience you had, So he or she
will kind of gauge, you know, based on your previous
(33:45):
psychedelic experiences, what your dosage is. And then as the
week progresses and they see how well you handle their
dosage that they've given to you, they can, you know,
adjust upwards of just downwards.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Adam, to the extent that you feel comfortable sharing with
us in our audience. Where did your mind go?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
So? Yeah, I had, I had pretty much poor. I
did four ceremonies throughout that week in Guatemala, went on Monday, Tuesday,
and then the third on Thursday and the last one
on Friday. And the first one really really caught me
off guard here because a lot of people, you know,
(34:32):
warn you that you know, ayahuasca is going to do
what it wants to do to you, you really can't
control it. And although you know people will often go
in with an intention, I would say just as often
ayahuasca is not going to fulfill that intention. So you
really have to be ready for anything. And the first night,
(34:56):
the best way to explain it was it was just
an experience of you know, like six hours or more
of just pure, unadult rated cosmic bliss and ecstasy. It
was just the yeah, well, yeah, that's I don't want
to make it sound like all you know, cosmic fireworks
(35:18):
and in like shooting stars or what I call lucky charms,
you know, like rainbowt unicorns and fourdly clovers in that.
But I mean it is possible. It is on that
gamut or spectrum of human experience that psychedelics can amplify
in you or or illicit. So I don't want to
say it's like that for everyone all the time, but
(35:38):
it is possible. You know, when you do plant medicine,
you're rolling the dice and anything can come up. But yeah,
it was. It was a very off field and mystical
inethical experience.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
M Are you allowed to discuss your experience with other
people who are you know, in the like, participating in
that retreat or that journey with you? Or is it
exclusive with the shaman and the other health professionals.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Okay, so there's kind of like two parts to this answer.
During that actual ceremony. One of the usually one of
the big rules is that you can't talk to anyone.
The only people you can talk with are the shamans.
You can't talk to the other participants of the retreat,
and nor are you allowed to touch anybody else in
(36:27):
the retreat. So you really have to keep to yourself,
although you can kind of have quote unquote conversations with participants,
just you know, with nonverbal communication, you know, nodding, laughing,
maybe grunting or something like this, and then that's perfectly allowed.
But outside of this ceremony, you could talk with everyone
(36:48):
about anything, you know, because of of course, everybody wants
to try and you know, talk about their experience, to
try and understand it and interpret it. And you know,
many times people are very energized by their experiences and
just yeah, want to be social.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
And so by the time you leave, what was the
takeaway from your experience?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Uh? Yeah, so ah, I would say, so the intentions
I went went to this retreat with didn't get fulfilled.
Ayahuasca just totally did its own thing, and I was
slightly disappointed about that. But then integrating afterwards, I realized
(37:38):
when I had time to kind of look and rearview
mirror and reflect on it. It gave me a lot
more that I wasn't even expecting, which was really this
profound connection to soul and give this this type of
what's called a unitive experience where you realize that you're
(38:01):
more than I need your ego or in my case, Adam,
you know this is all just kind of a shell,
and that we have a soul, and that we are
all connected through soul and to maybe something much much
bigger that is beyond our comprehension, you know, some kind
of collective consciousness or some other realm of of reality
(38:25):
that that we're not connected to in baseline healthy.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Sorry, I had to let that resonate for a second.
How would you say your second retreat outside of Austin,
How did that differ the two experiences? Like what insights
did you gain from them? Where they complete different experiences?
How would you define them when asked to describe the
two differences?
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Uh, yeah, they're they're a little bit different. You know,
the core is still basically the same. In the case
of the one outside of Austin, I would say it
was a little bit more off the shelf, if you will,
I would always recommend to people, if you're going on
a plant medicine retreat, try and go to the most
beautiful place possible, immerse yourself in nature as much as possible.
(39:20):
And nothing against Texas, but outside of Austin isn't really
as beautiful as Lake Autiflan, so it maybe lash a
little bit of that kind of like stardust, you know,
quality of nature. But besides that, there was also I
kind of had a realization between these retreats, and I
kind of realized that I think there's this kind of unspoken,
(39:44):
unwritten rule of plant medicine retreats that often people follow,
which is to go into retreats with this very kind
of solemn manner or kind of like you know, like
being a unk or a nun, because I think people
are thinking, oh, this is very sacred, you know work.
(40:05):
You know, we're all here to work on our soul
and we have to take this seriously, which I totally
agree with. But at the same time, this doesn't mean
we're you know, we have to be we have to
act like we're in a church or a library. You know.
If people know rom Dos, you know, he was one
of the big pre eminent figures of the sixties psychedelic movement.
(40:33):
He was, you know, Richard Elper, he had worked with
Timothy Leary at Harvard. Ram Das says something about, you know,
spirituality is joy, it's laughter, it's having fun, it's happiness.
And I think that's something that gets overlooked in the West,
especially America. You know, we're there to have these, you know,
amazing experiences to try and you know, cheer us up,
(40:55):
you know, at least in a semi permanent way. And
you know, I just always say laughter is the sab
of the soul. So I'm always just trying to be
upbeat and energetic and laugh and smile. And I think
people kind of pick up on that and like they think, also, oh, hey,
I don't have to act like I'm in a library
or a church. This is this is bringing liberty.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
And you know, today we've talked about psychedelic retreats more
in the sense of from a from a healing perspective
or a healing lens. How do you see the future
of psychedelic therapy evolving, especially in terms of mainstream acceptance
and integration into mental health care.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
I would say that's like everyone's favorite relationship status it's complicated.
It's it's going to take a long time to sort
out because I think there's always going to be an
underground I mean, without a doubt, just as long as
indigenous cultures and societies around the world continually exists, you
(41:58):
know there's always going to be quote unquote underground. But
the more complicated side is how we're going to engage
and interact with these plant medicines and psychedelic compounds in
the West. Because of our let's say, the limitations and
boundaries of our healthcare systems, whether that's physical healthcare or
(42:20):
mental healthcare, there's some serious roadblocks and speed bumps into
trying to figure out how do we incorporate these things
into the healthcare system, And just a lot of that
has to do with the limits of rational materialism, and
then downstream from that insurance companies. Because ketamine is already
(42:42):
being widely used ketamine therapy across the United States. But
for example, there's two different types, and one type uses
psychotherapy talk therapy, and the other type of enemy therapy
does not. And the other type of ketemine therapy tends
to not want to induce or provoke a mystical experience
(43:04):
so that's kind of like there's a central like debate
or conflict going on in above ground psychedelic settings that
revolves around whether we actually want to, you know, induce
or stimulate a mystical experience, and I fall on the
(43:25):
side of yes, we definitely want to have mystical experiences
because this is arguably the nucleus of where our healing
comes from. When we have these experiences that make us
realize that we are We're not a human being having
a spiritual experience, We're a spiritual being having a human experience.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Well, said some.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Of our listeners who are curious, what advice would you
give them for someone who's curious about exploring psychedelics, either
recreationally or within a retreat.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
As far as within a retreat, I would say number
one is trust your shaman. You know, like I've kind
of going back to what I said earlier, if at
all possible in any circumstances, try and beat your shaman prior,
you know, spend some time with them, you know, get
to know them, make sure you can trust them, you know,
kind of pick up on their vibe. So that would
(44:23):
be number one in terms of retreats. And then the
second thing, and I guess this also applies to non
retreat settings, is take integration seriously. Prior to my personal
evolution using psychedelics and plant medicines, I was like the
integration that were barely even existed, you know, fifteen twenty
(44:45):
years ago. I imagine it did, but in really kind
of inside psychedelic circles that weren't as widespread as they
are now. And if somebody would have said to me, oh, hey,
you know, like work on yourself, journal, meditate through some
yoga affwords, I would have and like, because I would
have thought, you like, it's all about the experience, which
I know better now. So yeah, take integration seriously because
(45:08):
that's where the magic, the real true magic happens. And
then the last piece of wisdom advice I would say is,
and this goes for either a retreat or non retreat setting,
the actual psychedelic journey itself is let go. This is
(45:29):
the biggest challenge for people, especially when it comes to
you know, quite potent medicine like say d N t ayahuasca,
something like bufo, is that these types of medicines will
cause what you know a lot of people refer to
as ego death or in kind of a scientific manner
(45:52):
of ego dissolution. So these medicines will cause you to
think you don't exist, which more or less is true.
That's what I was saying earlier is that when you
do plant medicine, especially anything that has d MT uh
you frequently, you know, you lose all concept of I
need adam, you know, ego. This stuff just goes proof
(46:15):
and it's gone. But when you first encounter this experience,
it is extremely terrifying, scary, uh you know, it's it's
it's wild, it's and it could really freak people out.
And so the thing to do is to let go,
is to always let the medicine do what it wants
to do to you, let it take you where it
(46:36):
wants to take you. And immediately as soon as you
let go and have this kind of intuitive ability to
do so, the whole experience it'll it'll change in a
split second, in the mule second, and it will go
from something terrifying to something you know, like filled with awe,
something mystical, and something beyond your imagination.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
That sounds frightening. But all the say, some rewarding elements
as well. If you do the work but before we
run out of time, Adam, we just want to get
you kind of maybe switched to a quick light note.
We can ask you five questions in quick succession. It's
a rapid fire segment. Answer as quickly as you can.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
Are you ready? Yep.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Favorite hiking trail or mountain?
Speaker 3 (47:23):
I would say Big Ben Big Ben National Park in Texas,
the trail to Emery Peak. It's not one of the
higher mountains in the United States, but you get up
there and then you can continue onward from Emory Pig
Peak to the South Rim and you can overlook the
Rio Grand looking south into Mexico, and it is one
of the least traveled parks and trails in the National
(47:47):
Park System. And that view from the south Wind overlooking
the Rio Brand in the next village, it's unbelievable because
of the kind of like the brutal savagery of the
desert and the simultaneous beauty and viberration of freedom of it.
It's something that can give you one of those experiences
at all.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
I'm ready to go come true with the best food.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Definitely Mexico, especially if your carnivore meat meaters Dream country.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
And if you like the spices definitely.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah anything. Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Where have you experienced the most culture shock?
Speaker 3 (48:28):
Well, I uh, part of living in Mexico. I lived
in Spain. It was the first country I lived abroad,
and so I would definitely just you know it, not
because Spain is any more different than any other countries,
but just it was the first country I lived a broaden,
so I'd say that, but also maybe a close second.
I've spent some time in Germany and run into some
interesting problems in Germany, so you know, yeah, there's some
(48:50):
culture shock there for sure.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Best beverage you've had abroad, alcoholic or otherwise.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
I would say going back to Mexico co chocolate. Maybe
in English you call it wa Haakan hot chocolate or
Mexican hot chocolate. It's not anything like American hot chocolate.
It's totally different. But if you're here in Wahaka or
maybe in a mountainous region it's a little bit cold, rainy, drizzly, foggy, cloudy,
(49:19):
drinking a cup of Mexican hot chocolate, it's like getting
a hug to your soul, or maybe like getting a
hug from a brandma like you didn't even.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Know you that.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
What country are you most excited a visit?
Speaker 3 (49:34):
I have two, since I love ancient civilizations and ancient ruins,
I have to go to at some point Egypt and or.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Great Choices.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, not too bad. And John's been to Egypt. You've
been to Pru as well, haven't you. He did Machu
Picchu last year. I think it was two years ago,
the in country two years ago. Still on the list, Adam,
thank you so much for getting on the show with us.
All the information is super helpful and learn not only
for listeners but ourselves. If our listeners want to learn
(50:06):
more about you, where can they find you?
Speaker 3 (50:09):
They can find me on substack. My substack is adammaze
dot substack dot com and amaze yous m I.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Valuable And you can find out a little bit more
about us by visiting our website at www dot gtspodcast
dot com. You can find us on Instagram or Facebook
at Globetrotters Podcast, Twitter at globetrot Pod. Make sure you
drop us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You
enjoyed listening to this episode.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Editing was done by a very own Jonathan Otero.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Until next time,
You're listening to the Globetrotters podcast, and today we have
something a little bit different for y'all. I'm your host
John o'tero.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
And I'm maximil Gonzalez.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Today we have Adam with us and we're going to
be talking about psychedelic retreats, both a broad and domestic.
Adam is a writer in the psychedelics field thanks to
lifelong psychedelic journeying and plant medicine work. He's written for
The Psychedelic Support, Psychedelics Today, and Reality Sandwich, among others.
(00:44):
Born in Chicago, he received his master's degrees from Northeastern
Illinois University in Mass Media, persuasion and Propaganda, completing a
thesis about the Heaven's Gate coal which we could have
a huge side conversation about that, but I'll stay on point.
Adam enjoys writing, obviously, particularly about mental health, psychedelics, and shamanism.
(01:07):
He now resides in Wajaka, Mexico, and enjoys putting moles
on his passport, learning about indigenous cultures, hiking the national
parks like us, and exploring ancient ruins. Adam, thank you
for being a guest on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Thank you very much for having me here, Max and Jonathan,
it's an honor glad to speak with you.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, before we get a little too deep into this conversation,
would you mind giving our listeners a two minute crash
course on what psychedelic retreats are and how they work.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yeah. Sure, So in case anybody doesn't know, let's try
and compress this as best as I can. Psychedelics, obviously,
are compounds plant medicines that stimulate psychedelic experiences. In US,
the word psychedelic means mind manifesting. It's actually a portmanteau
(02:02):
of two Latin words. So these are mind manifesting compounds
and chemicals that work on our psyche. And our psyche
is our mind, body, and soul. They amplify what's already
there in your psyche, and at the same time they
offer us opportunities to have mystical experiences like AWE. For example,
(02:26):
AWE is a very important concept and a very interesting,
interesting one to me. I think you know, for a
long long time in the United States, we've been saying, oh,
you're awesome, Oh this is awesome, and we've kind of
lost the true meaning of what awe actually is. So
psychedelics can give us that experience of experiencing awe and
(02:48):
then of course these things, these types of experiences and
opportunities to work in our psyche are made available to
us at psychedelic retreats.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
It We're all curious about your journey into the world
of psychedelics, What sparked your interest, how did you get
into them?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Initially, honestly, it wasn't ending wholesome and he has the
biggest grin in the world right now. It was nothing good.
My first year of college, I left Chicago when I
was eighteen. I went to university in Florida because I
originally was trying to become a marine biologist, and I
(03:28):
did something I thought i'd never do. I joined the fraternity, which, actually,
as bad as that sounds and I never wanted to do,
it ended up being a very interesting experience because I
joined the fraternity that was the fraternity of all the
guys that didn't fit and clicks or didn't fit the
other fraternities. So I wasn't in like the rich guy fraternity.
I wasn't in the jock fraternity. It was all the
(03:51):
kind of like loaners and rejects and really unique individuals.
In my fraternity, and in my fraternity there was a
kind of a subculture or a subset of guys that
were like hippies, really really smart hippies, and you know,
they had psychedelics, They had LSD and mushrooms, and so
you know, of course I wanted to fit in and
(04:11):
kind of be cool like the big guys. And yeah,
when I was eighteen in Florida, I tried siloside and
LSD for the first time. So even though it was
maybe not in the most wholesome context and it was
definitely recreational, since the first time after using them, I
just knew there was something more to them and a
(04:33):
special kind of magical quality that, if youse correctly, can
really be healthy and beneficial for some tea for yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
And Adam helped. Let's take this trip down memory lane.
Let's go back to eighteen year old you. What was
your preconception of what psychedelics were, What was your understanding
of them at that point in time?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Really nothing, really nothing at all. I went to an
all boys Catholic high school, so I was very very
straight edged and straight paced, and you know, obviously any
kinds of you know, whether you want to call them
drugs or psychedelics or medicine. That was all very frowned upon.
And I mean we're talking this is the nineteen nineties.
(05:21):
In the nineteen nineties, you pretty much could have been
excommunicated or blackballed if you know, you were honest or
open about that in public. So I really didn't know
much about them at all, and I just went into
it with an open mind and an open heart, and
you know, spent a long time probably not using them
(05:42):
in the best way. But quickly, yeah, like I said,
quickly learn that there's something more to them than mainstream
culture teaches them.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And the reason that I asked that question is because
you know, fast forward these next what thirty four years,
thirty years, let's say, there's been some breakthroughs in how
psychedelics are perceived or how they're used in relation to
mental health. And so I guess you know, as of today,
what are some of the most common misconceptions about psychedelics
(06:15):
that you encounter are most commonly here.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I'd say two of the most common ones. One is
that psychedelics are a magic bullet. And what I mean
by that is this current psychedelic revival that we're living
in and experiencing. You know, it's shifted. Obviously, psychedelics were
painted in a whole different manner in the sixties and
(06:41):
into the seventies, and then you know, obviously they went underground,
you know, thanks to Richard Nixon and a lot of
the laws that were passed in the seventies. So I
think for decades they're misunderstood, and now that they're you know,
having this reviible, they've re emerged in this healing context,
which is entirely novel to the West. This type of
(07:06):
idea of using them in a healing context isn't anything
new to indigenous cultures, non Western cultures and societies. Important, Yeah,
and it seems like, you know, we kind of made
much like myself and my own personal life, you know,
as a country, as a culture in the United States,
we've already made those adolescent mistakes maybe in the in
(07:28):
the sixties and into the seventies, and now we've kind
of maybe matured and grown and evolved aule bit and
understand our relationship with these medicines and compounds better. So
that said, the danger now with a lot of people
is they a lot of people tend to think they're
a magic bullet. So you know, people suffering from some
(07:51):
kind of mental health disorder or issue or maybe trauma
or this or that or whatever it is, they think
that you can maybe take psychedelics, and you know, it's like,
like I said, a magic bullet. You pop a pill
and then boom, you're cured, your remedied, your field, and
that's not how they work. And then kind of on
the coattails of that, I think the other risk is
(08:15):
a lot of people believe that the magic of psychedelics
is the experience itself, the psychedelic journey itself, which I
mean that is absolutely magical and special, and that's a
big part of it. However, I can definitely say with
confidence after working with plant medicine a lot the actual
(08:38):
real breakthroughs and revelations and growth they come after the experience.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I did want to ask, when did you stop using
psychedelics recreationally and started doing them more so for therapeutic purposes.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I would say kind of around twenty sixteen. I started
gradually shifting and realizing the spiritual, psycho spiritual potential and
power of psychedelics more and started started using them alone
often and frequently in national parks. I love going to
(09:17):
national parks and hiking and you know, communing with nature
and those times, those opportunities when you can maybe use
psychedelics alone in nature, it's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
What do you think it was about twenty sixteen? Was
it just your stage of life or was there you know,
is there more context to what happened that year that
you started shifting.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
It was a blend of things. I was in up
until I forgot which month in twenty sixteen. I think
it was early fall. I was living in Florida, and
then I moved to Austin, Texas, and I was kind
of starting a new chapter of my life. And the
Austin kind of gave me a lot of opportunities for
(10:04):
growth in a variety of ways. And as many people
might know, Austin, I would say is probably a top
three psychedelic subculture city in the United States.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I did not know that.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, yeah, I would say obviously Denver is up there,
you know Portland people would say San fran Obviously. I
think San Frian is a little bit more symbolic now
I think some of these others are starting to overtake it.
But yeah, Austin is a huge, huge city. For psychedelics,
So there's some interesting opportunities there for personal development and growth.
(10:40):
And coming out of Florida, I had gone through a
very very rough period in my life because my mom
was terminal and she was dying and I was a
full time caregiver for six years, so I was looking
to kind of grow out of that. I think it
was Nietzsche, the German philosopher who has this idea of
(11:02):
post traumatic growth, that these opportunities, these huge trials and
tribulations and setbacks that we explained some life offer us
opportunities for growth and for expansion, and Austin doing that
opportunity to take it.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
You brought up retreats again. I kind of want to
circle back to that. Psychedelic retreats are something we've discussed
on the show before, but we've never had a guest
to actually be on the show for the topic of
psychedelic retreats and you have that firsthand. So generally speaking,
why would someone go on a psychedelic retreat, What do
you think the benefits are, Why do you think it's
(11:36):
different than doing it recreationally. What would someone who's interested
in this have to look forward to when signing up?
Or going on a psychedelic re treat.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
To steal a line from the famous with psychologist Carl Young,
I would say, to find your soul. I think we
live in very interesting times. It's kind of like that
old Chinese proverb may live in interesting times, which is
simultaneously a curse and a blessing. I think we're having
(12:07):
a real crisis in the West, especially the United States,
and I think part of that crisis and the chaos
and uncertainty that we're experiencing in these times results from
or is rooted in a lack of connection to our soul.
We've been kind of sold a bill of goods, almost
(12:29):
literally pun intended, because we live in this culture and
society of mass consumption, materialism, consumerism, and these things have
really disconnected us from our soul. And these opportunities to
go on retreats to reconnect with soul just hugely, hugely
(12:50):
beneficial for individuals. And then I think as more individuals
do that, it then refinds our society, our society, and
our culture and really connects us to what's the most
meaningful in our lives.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
I love that response, by the way. I'm I'm a
huge fan of trying to not take lives too seriously,
but also really trying to dive into it and figure
out what the purpose is. And often or not you
can't actually figure that out. So yeah, love it and Adam.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Obviously, when you go on these retreats, you meet a
lot of interesting people. Would you say there's a certain
type or personality trait that you or maybe even kind
of this longing for finding of the soul that tends
to bind people together or kind of a better way
of phrasing, it's something that they're looking for that you
(13:45):
can kind of say, Yeah, most people that go on
this have that similarity or that piece missing.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
That's difficult. I would generally say no, that there isn't
the lowest common denominator. I mean there is, but maybe
not in that way. Like I think everybody is essentially
looking for the same thing. But it's it's just very
very broad. You know, it's it's you know, coming back
(14:13):
home to soul. But underneath that umbrella, everybody maybe has
separate distinct reasons or intentions. But in the end, you know,
everybody's trying to, yeah, like go back home, so it
draws in you know, a full spectrum of people you know,
whether it's aged, you know, race, gender, sex, ethnicity, nationality,
(14:38):
and you get a whole mix of people.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well, let's not keep our listeners waiting even more. Let's
talk about this experience, or like your first experience. Back
in twenty eighteen, you did your first psychedelic retreat near
Lake Atitlan and Guatemala. Why then, what was the intent
behind your journey?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Okay, So this is where psychedelics can get to be fun.
It's kind of a I feel like a dangerous thing
to say nowadays, because there's you know, firmly placed in
this healing context. But they can be fun and unexpected
and magical. So there's a very famous HUNTERSS Thompson Mine,
you know, the iconoclassic American author. He was talking to
(15:21):
a friend once about doing LSD, and a Hunter said
to his friend, you don't find LSD. LSD finds you
when it thinks you're ready. And this is very true psychedelics.
It seems that sometimes psychedelics almost have their own consciousness.
So in twenty eighteen, I was living in Austin and
(15:43):
I was already meditating daily, doing yoga, daily journaling. I
also got into floating float therapy what most sensory deprivation tanks.
So I was going down this path already, and I
have a to meet someone through my float center that
I went to and we began talking, and of course
(16:09):
immediately psychedelics and plant medicine came up, and one thing
led to another, and that led to ayahuasca. And this
person mentions me, oh, I could take care of that
for you, and I was like, WHOA. I wasn't even
looking for you know, I wasn't even trying, and it
just appeared in my life. And that's usually the best
sign is when you know, plant medicines and psychedelics find you.
(16:32):
It's it's a very authentic, genuine moment. That's usually kind
of I would say, a cosmic sign not to sound
too goobu, that you're green for go and that you're
ready to tackle this experience. So I ended up, yeah,
getting invited to go on a retreat, an ayahuasca retreat
per week in Guatemala, and my intention was, I would
(16:54):
say it was too full. One was to try and
sort out some things in regards to my family dynamics,
coming off the heels of my mom passing away and
digging deep into my nuclear family relationships, and then also
(17:15):
spiritual exploration. I had previously, I had smoked DMT, but
there were a few things that I hadn't explored yet,
which were ayahuasca and gupo. So this was a real,
real big step up for me. I'd always I had
known about ayahuasca since my twenties for a long long time,
and I knew it was taking a very big step up.
(17:37):
So I felt like I was ready and I was
prepared and it was the right time.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Kind of diving into the logistics of finding these retreats,
I assume you did research on which retreats and companies
that organize these kind of experiences had to offer. Why
did you choose the one you did? Was there anything
to look out for in that sense for someone who
might be interested in looking for retreat themselves.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Is it that simple that that person told you, hey,
let's this is the retreat to go check out and
you were sold.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, that was the thing. Yeah. I really didn't do
any research at all, which I think is probably very
atypical and I wouldn't recommend that for most people. But
you know, when you're going on a psychedelic retreat, you're
doing a type of you know, psychic surgery or soul surgery,
and so you really really want to trust, you know,
(18:30):
the shamans and the organizers of that retreat. So I
got exceptionally lucky with meeting this friend in Austin and
being able to spend some time with him and actually
become friends beforehand, and you know, learned that I could
trust him and I had nothing to worry about. You know.
I think that's the best way to go with any
(18:53):
psychedelic retreat is to know the people you're working with,
the practitioners of therapists, the shamans, whoever they are forehand,
I mean, because there are unknown still uh with the
digital world and solely relying on reviews online and things
of that sort. So I always recommend best case scenario
for anyone is to make a connection with people ahead
(19:16):
of time and get to know whom to work.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, word of mouth is definitely a good one to
go by in terms of trust, right, kind of staying
on the logistic side of things, generally, how do how
does the structure of these retreats work? Kind of going
from committing to it, purchasing your spot in it, and
then maybe the daily structure of them is can you
(19:39):
elaborate a little bit on the rhythm of those.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
To add to what Max said. You know, you already
mentioned a few different professionals that would be in attendance
that I didn't even consider. Obviously, I was expecting a shaman,
but you also said therapists, practitioners, and so that that
got in my mind wondering.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah, so it's going to kind of depend on the
type of retreat because as psychedelics become more mainstream and
increasingly become legalized, there's gonna be more above ground retreats,
and those are gonna have to be more standardized and
have more medical oversight, so there might be more therapists
(20:19):
involved with that.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You said above ground retreats, do you mean like kind
of a legitimate like there's some that are maybe less
less legitimate than others.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Or I wouldn't Maybe legitimate isn't the right word. I
think the right word would be legal, because there's already
legal silos Iban retreats in Oregon, for example, and they're
gonna have to probably have medical staff, therapists and things
like that. But you know, there's probably already countless underground
(20:51):
retreats across the United states which don't require a therapists
and the extent of medical oversight with them and above
ground retreat is going to require. So as far as
underground retreats are concerned, and especially almost all the retreats
outside of the United States are going to be quote
unquote underground. But the good things to look for beforehand
(21:14):
is some kind of interview that you would do with
the Shamans. For example, they're going to send you a
survey and they're going to ask you about your mental health,
your physical health, and things like this. Then you're going
to send it back to them. They're also going to
ask you about your intentions, why do you want to
(21:34):
do this work, what are you looking what are you
looking for? What are you looking to answer? And then
after that they usually do some kind of screening call
with you, which is a really good sign. You know,
for maybe a half an hour to an hour, and
so you get to know who you work with, they
get to know what you're about. And then after that,
in a i'd say month prior to the retreat, you
(21:58):
have to start working on yourself. It in terms of
eating right and really cleaning up your diet and also
getting off of all drugs and or medications. There's kind
of two big categories of mental health that people are
usually pre empted from doing a retreat, which is bipolar
(22:20):
at schizophrenia. But aside from that, you're strongly encouraged to
get off all, you know, whether the recreational drugs or
prescription drugs. And then the only other thing is sometimes
there's complications or contra indications with heart medication. But as
long as you pass through those filters or you're usually
(22:43):
get to go. And then as far as the actual retreat,
you know, they can differ, but generally in a broad sense.
You know, you wake up in the morning, usually have
some free time to yourself to do whatever I then
have breakfast, and then commonly afterwards there's going to be
an integration circle for an hour or two where you
(23:05):
discuss as a group your experiences from the previous night's
ceremony to help integrate and figure out what you just
what your psycholic journey was about. Thin you know, in
the afternoon, there might be like a little event planned
or something, maybe a height somewhere in nature in the jungle,
may swimming something like this, and then just more free
(23:27):
time and then maybe you'll have a light dinner and
then usually buy I don't know, a sunset or around there.
It'll start getting ready for that night's ceremony, which will
be anywhere between I don't know, six to eight hours
of fun too.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, I just want to back up a little bit.
I love the fact that I never considered this, that
a retreat organization would have interviews before going. I think,
I don't know why, Like, I find that so fascinating
that they're putting that much care and intention in having
your spot or your experience be like, you know, for you,
(24:05):
so they know to look for. I think that's just
really really cool.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah it is. It's it's great to individualize the experience
for you, and then you know, it just engenders a
lot of trust and comfort and so you're not totally
plunging into the unknown, and then you get a feel
for each other and yeah, yeah, it's definitely a really
big green flag.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
MH.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Is the purpose of let's say, getting off any type
of medication. I would assume, like caffeine is included in
that list.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Maybe yeah, it doesn't have to be, but it should be. Yeah,
Like you have to really clean everything out of your system,
so almost Prior to any ayahuasca retreat, you have to
do what's called a deta. You know, it's the Spanish
word or diet. And there's two different kinds. I say,
(24:55):
there's a lowercase D dieta and then there's a capital
D dieta. So the lowercase D dieta is what's required
for everyone. You have to you know, eat organic, very clean,
try and not eat any food with processed anything processed
in it any you know, additives, preservatives, you know, none
of that stuff. You have to for the week prior
(25:19):
get off of you know, caffeine. You're not supposed to
eat red meat, like almost eliminate sugar, you know, anything
that's really enjoyable. Alcohol of course, nothing like this. Uh,
no smoking anything of any kind. And that's the basic requirement.
But then sometimes at HIGHWA WASP retreats you're given the
options to do the capital D dieta, which I call
(25:43):
them doing the monk life. It is very very uh
what would be the work maybe like Spartan. Uh, there's
no sugar, no caffeine, and the big thing is no salt.
You so for visical Yeah, so for the week long
retreat I did in Guatemala, and like an I did
(26:04):
the capital ddetta and it's all kind of like what
they say white food. You have the rice fish chicken
that's all unseasoned. You can't even drink tea. You can
have hot tea as long as there's no caffeine in
it and no salt. And I had never lived in
my life without salt before, and it's a very strange,
(26:27):
interesting experience to live for a week without salt.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, you just said unseasoned chicken. In my heart like
crumbled a little bit.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I mean all of these things like, yeah, I would
have imagined that some of these things to wean off
of are a little bit harder than others. Like from
a taste perspective, I would hate to do the no
salt thing, but it wouldn't beat me at least for
me personally, like that heart of a thing. But for
someone that's a chronic smoker or alcoholic, really breaking that
(27:00):
cycle is I would imagine it's quite difficult. Is there
any sort of like coaching or you know, peer that
is helping you through that experience where it's really on
yourself to clean it up before you get there?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
No, Like, well, it's mostly on yourself prior to arriving
at the retreat. You know, that's one of the big
kind of rules of thumb in terms of psychedelic retreat work.
The more you put in, the more you're gonna get out.
So leading up to the retreat, you know, you really
have to make an honest effort to keep yourself, you know,
on that dieta because you're going to get more out
(27:39):
of the retreat because what you really want to do
is you want to turn your body into a blank
canvass for the plant medicine to paint on and to work.
It's art, so it's difficult. But then when you're actually
at the retreat, you know you can get help from
the retreat leaders, the shamans if you're struggling with anything. Fortunately,
(28:02):
I just kind of bit the bullet and got through
it on my own. And yeah, it's like the monk
like because additionally, for the Capital d Deza, you can't
use any kind of toilet trees that are inorganic or
have any chemicals in them or anything like that. So
like soap, toothpaste, deodorant, you either don't use it or
(28:26):
have to use like very special types. And then on
the third day, I think it was the Wednesday of
that week. I wasn't allowed to talk. I had to
be in silence for twenty four hours, so no salt,
silence like no chemicals. It's it was a very interesting
experience combining that with the plants.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Wait, just to clarify really quick, the capital DDA is
that your thing or is that a known thing in
the No, that's a knowing.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I don't know how many retreats offer that. I would
imagine a lot of them, but it is definitely a
level up. You're definitely dialing up the intensity of your retreat.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Okay, So someone were to ask for like about the
capital d Dietta, they would the people at the retreat
would know what they're.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Talking about, Yeah, I would hope.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So yeah, all right, cool, that's a good litmus test,
I guess to see the quality exactly right. Yeah, let's
talk about the first ceremony. What was the experience like
for you?
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Uh, well, I definitely would say I was excited. I mean,
it's a little bit difficult not to be excited to
do something like this, and at the same time, you know,
there's definitely some nerves and I definitely had a little
a little ball of anxiety deep in my in my gut,
you know, because it's psychedelical, like buy the ticket, take
(29:56):
the ride. You never know what they're going to bring up.
You know, they run the full gamut of the spectrum
of human experience and even beyond things that we know
are even possible or imaginable. And so you get tucked in,
so to speak, because everybody has to make what's called
(30:18):
a nest. I When I was doing this in Guatemala,
we were on this kind of like in this huge
outdoor kind of gazebo type space that had a roof
over it, but it was open to the lake and
to the nearby volcanoes and you could still see the
stars and hear birds at night and things like this.
But you have to make a nest on the floor,
(30:40):
which is just your own little pile of blankets and
pillows and cushions and yoga mats to lie in to
get comfortable while you're working with the medicine. So you know,
as you get closer to actually taking the medicine, you
know those nerves and you know that little fear of
the unknown builds in you and then uh, you actually
(31:01):
take the first dose of medicine, which in my case
was served in shot glass. And uh, it's there's almost
nothing that tastes worse in the world. It is so
god awful taste and bitter. It's it's it's really a leched,
horrible thing to put in your mouth.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And this is ayahuasca you were talking about.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's this kind. Uh, it's like a
thick it's somewhere between like a motor oil and a
thick brownie batter.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Ah, that sounds terrible. I was actually going to make
a joke. Was it worse than the un seasoned chicken?
Speaker 3 (31:34):
But yeah, yes, in your throat. And that's another interesting
thing to know. Some retreats have different rules about drinking water.
You should be able to drink some amount of water
during the ceremony, but maybe not a lot. So you're
not allowed to do a lot during the ceremony except
go to the bathroom, maybe drink a little bit of
(31:57):
water or rinse your mouth out, because you have to
get rid of that horrible after taste and that coating
in your mouth and throat. And then also everybody's given
a roll of toilet paper in a bucket because you know,
of course, the most common things that happened during an
ayahuasca ceremony is what's known as purging, and that can
be either you know, vomiting and or diarrhea, So those
(32:21):
things be ready for that.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
You take the medicine. How long does it take to
kick in?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
That depends on a person by person basis. Sometimes it
kicks in really fast for people, you know, maybe twenty minutes,
maybe less than a half an hour. I would say
that's the exception. For me. It's done that for me
a few times, but I have slow uptakes, so it
usually takes me a minimum of forty five minutes, usually
closer to an hour.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
And do people get to choose how intense they want
this retreat experience to be? Is it just one dosage
across the board for everyone or how does that work?
Speaker 3 (33:01):
No, it's definitely customized and personalized. So would you go
up to the shaman in the ceremony space, he'll usually
have what's called unemesa, which is basically a Spanish word
it's used to mean alter, and he'll have a little
altar set up on the floor where you go up
(33:22):
and receive the medicine, and usually you'll have like a brief,
little kind of private conversation with the shaman, and he'll
ask you about your previous plant medicine and or psychedelic experiences,
and you know what you've used, how much you've used,
what kind of experience you had, So he or she
will kind of gauge, you know, based on your previous
(33:45):
psychedelic experiences, what your dosage is. And then as the
week progresses and they see how well you handle their
dosage that they've given to you, they can, you know,
adjust upwards of just downwards.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Adam, to the extent that you feel comfortable sharing with
us in our audience. Where did your mind go?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
So? Yeah, I had, I had pretty much poor. I
did four ceremonies throughout that week in Guatemala, went on Monday, Tuesday,
and then the third on Thursday and the last one
on Friday. And the first one really really caught me
off guard here because a lot of people, you know,
(34:32):
warn you that you know, ayahuasca is going to do
what it wants to do to you, you really can't
control it. And although you know people will often go
in with an intention, I would say just as often
ayahuasca is not going to fulfill that intention. So you
really have to be ready for anything. And the first night,
(34:56):
the best way to explain it was it was just
an experience of you know, like six hours or more
of just pure, unadult rated cosmic bliss and ecstasy. It
was just the yeah, well, yeah, that's I don't want
to make it sound like all you know, cosmic fireworks
(35:18):
and in like shooting stars or what I call lucky charms,
you know, like rainbowt unicorns and fourdly clovers in that.
But I mean it is possible. It is on that
gamut or spectrum of human experience that psychedelics can amplify
in you or or illicit. So I don't want to
say it's like that for everyone all the time, but
(35:38):
it is possible. You know, when you do plant medicine,
you're rolling the dice and anything can come up. But yeah,
it was. It was a very off field and mystical
inethical experience.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
M Are you allowed to discuss your experience with other
people who are you know, in the like, participating in
that retreat or that journey with you? Or is it
exclusive with the shaman and the other health professionals.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Okay, so there's kind of like two parts to this answer.
During that actual ceremony. One of the usually one of
the big rules is that you can't talk to anyone.
The only people you can talk with are the shamans.
You can't talk to the other participants of the retreat,
and nor are you allowed to touch anybody else in
(36:27):
the retreat. So you really have to keep to yourself,
although you can kind of have quote unquote conversations with participants,
just you know, with nonverbal communication, you know, nodding, laughing,
maybe grunting or something like this, and then that's perfectly allowed.
But outside of this ceremony, you could talk with everyone
(36:48):
about anything, you know, because of of course, everybody wants
to try and you know, talk about their experience, to
try and understand it and interpret it. And you know,
many times people are very energized by their experiences and
just yeah, want to be social.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
And so by the time you leave, what was the
takeaway from your experience?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Uh? Yeah, so ah, I would say, so the intentions
I went went to this retreat with didn't get fulfilled.
Ayahuasca just totally did its own thing, and I was
slightly disappointed about that. But then integrating afterwards, I realized
(37:38):
when I had time to kind of look and rearview
mirror and reflect on it. It gave me a lot
more that I wasn't even expecting, which was really this
profound connection to soul and give this this type of
what's called a unitive experience where you realize that you're
(38:01):
more than I need your ego or in my case, Adam,
you know this is all just kind of a shell,
and that we have a soul, and that we are
all connected through soul and to maybe something much much
bigger that is beyond our comprehension, you know, some kind
of collective consciousness or some other realm of of reality
(38:25):
that that we're not connected to in baseline healthy.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Sorry, I had to let that resonate for a second.
How would you say your second retreat outside of Austin,
How did that differ the two experiences? Like what insights
did you gain from them? Where they complete different experiences?
How would you define them when asked to describe the
two differences?
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Uh, yeah, they're they're a little bit different. You know,
the core is still basically the same. In the case
of the one outside of Austin, I would say it
was a little bit more off the shelf, if you will,
I would always recommend to people, if you're going on
a plant medicine retreat, try and go to the most
beautiful place possible, immerse yourself in nature as much as possible.
(39:20):
And nothing against Texas, but outside of Austin isn't really
as beautiful as Lake Autiflan, so it maybe lash a
little bit of that kind of like stardust, you know,
quality of nature. But besides that, there was also I
kind of had a realization between these retreats, and I
kind of realized that I think there's this kind of unspoken,
(39:44):
unwritten rule of plant medicine retreats that often people follow,
which is to go into retreats with this very kind
of solemn manner or kind of like you know, like
being a unk or a nun, because I think people
are thinking, oh, this is very sacred, you know work.
(40:05):
You know, we're all here to work on our soul
and we have to take this seriously, which I totally
agree with. But at the same time, this doesn't mean
we're you know, we have to be we have to
act like we're in a church or a library. You know.
If people know rom Dos, you know, he was one
of the big pre eminent figures of the sixties psychedelic movement.
(40:33):
He was, you know, Richard Elper, he had worked with
Timothy Leary at Harvard. Ram Das says something about, you know,
spirituality is joy, it's laughter, it's having fun, it's happiness.
And I think that's something that gets overlooked in the West,
especially America. You know, we're there to have these, you know,
amazing experiences to try and you know, cheer us up,
(40:55):
you know, at least in a semi permanent way. And
you know, I just always say laughter is the sab
of the soul. So I'm always just trying to be
upbeat and energetic and laugh and smile. And I think
people kind of pick up on that and like they think, also, oh, hey,
I don't have to act like I'm in a library
or a church. This is this is bringing liberty.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
And you know, today we've talked about psychedelic retreats more
in the sense of from a from a healing perspective
or a healing lens. How do you see the future
of psychedelic therapy evolving, especially in terms of mainstream acceptance
and integration into mental health care.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
I would say that's like everyone's favorite relationship status it's complicated.
It's it's going to take a long time to sort
out because I think there's always going to be an
underground I mean, without a doubt, just as long as
indigenous cultures and societies around the world continually exists, you
(41:58):
know there's always going to be quote unquote underground. But
the more complicated side is how we're going to engage
and interact with these plant medicines and psychedelic compounds in
the West. Because of our let's say, the limitations and
boundaries of our healthcare systems, whether that's physical healthcare or
(42:20):
mental healthcare, there's some serious roadblocks and speed bumps into
trying to figure out how do we incorporate these things
into the healthcare system, And just a lot of that
has to do with the limits of rational materialism, and
then downstream from that insurance companies. Because ketamine is already
(42:42):
being widely used ketamine therapy across the United States. But
for example, there's two different types, and one type uses
psychotherapy talk therapy, and the other type of enemy therapy
does not. And the other type of ketemine therapy tends
to not want to induce or provoke a mystical experience
(43:04):
so that's kind of like there's a central like debate
or conflict going on in above ground psychedelic settings that
revolves around whether we actually want to, you know, induce
or stimulate a mystical experience, and I fall on the
(43:25):
side of yes, we definitely want to have mystical experiences
because this is arguably the nucleus of where our healing
comes from. When we have these experiences that make us
realize that we are We're not a human being having
a spiritual experience, We're a spiritual being having a human experience.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Well, said some.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Of our listeners who are curious, what advice would you
give them for someone who's curious about exploring psychedelics, either
recreationally or within a retreat.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
As far as within a retreat, I would say number
one is trust your shaman. You know, like I've kind
of going back to what I said earlier, if at
all possible in any circumstances, try and beat your shaman prior,
you know, spend some time with them, you know, get
to know them, make sure you can trust them, you know,
kind of pick up on their vibe. So that would
(44:23):
be number one in terms of retreats. And then the
second thing, and I guess this also applies to non
retreat settings, is take integration seriously. Prior to my personal
evolution using psychedelics and plant medicines, I was like the
integration that were barely even existed, you know, fifteen twenty
(44:45):
years ago. I imagine it did, but in really kind
of inside psychedelic circles that weren't as widespread as they
are now. And if somebody would have said to me, oh, hey,
you know, like work on yourself, journal, meditate through some
yoga affwords, I would have and like, because I would
have thought, you like, it's all about the experience, which
I know better now. So yeah, take integration seriously because
(45:08):
that's where the magic, the real true magic happens. And
then the last piece of wisdom advice I would say is,
and this goes for either a retreat or non retreat setting,
the actual psychedelic journey itself is let go. This is
(45:29):
the biggest challenge for people, especially when it comes to
you know, quite potent medicine like say d N t ayahuasca,
something like bufo, is that these types of medicines will
cause what you know a lot of people refer to
as ego death or in kind of a scientific manner
(45:52):
of ego dissolution. So these medicines will cause you to
think you don't exist, which more or less is true.
That's what I was saying earlier is that when you
do plant medicine, especially anything that has d MT uh
you frequently, you know, you lose all concept of I
need adam, you know, ego. This stuff just goes proof
(46:15):
and it's gone. But when you first encounter this experience,
it is extremely terrifying, scary, uh you know, it's it's
it's wild, it's and it could really freak people out.
And so the thing to do is to let go,
is to always let the medicine do what it wants
to do to you, let it take you where it
(46:36):
wants to take you. And immediately as soon as you
let go and have this kind of intuitive ability to
do so, the whole experience it'll it'll change in a
split second, in the mule second, and it will go
from something terrifying to something you know, like filled with awe,
something mystical, and something beyond your imagination.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
That sounds frightening. But all the say, some rewarding elements
as well. If you do the work but before we
run out of time, Adam, we just want to get
you kind of maybe switched to a quick light note.
We can ask you five questions in quick succession. It's
a rapid fire segment. Answer as quickly as you can.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
Are you ready? Yep.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Favorite hiking trail or mountain?
Speaker 3 (47:23):
I would say Big Ben Big Ben National Park in Texas,
the trail to Emery Peak. It's not one of the
higher mountains in the United States, but you get up
there and then you can continue onward from Emory Pig
Peak to the South Rim and you can overlook the
Rio Grand looking south into Mexico, and it is one
of the least traveled parks and trails in the National
(47:47):
Park System. And that view from the south Wind overlooking
the Rio Brand in the next village, it's unbelievable because
of the kind of like the brutal savagery of the
desert and the simultaneous beauty and viberration of freedom of it.
It's something that can give you one of those experiences
at all.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
I'm ready to go come true with the best food.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Definitely Mexico, especially if your carnivore meat meaters Dream country.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
And if you like the spices definitely.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah anything. Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Where have you experienced the most culture shock?
Speaker 3 (48:28):
Well, I uh, part of living in Mexico. I lived
in Spain. It was the first country I lived abroad,
and so I would definitely just you know it, not
because Spain is any more different than any other countries,
but just it was the first country I lived a broaden,
so I'd say that, but also maybe a close second.
I've spent some time in Germany and run into some
interesting problems in Germany, so you know, yeah, there's some
(48:50):
culture shock there for sure.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Best beverage you've had abroad, alcoholic or otherwise.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
I would say going back to Mexico co chocolate. Maybe
in English you call it wa Haakan hot chocolate or
Mexican hot chocolate. It's not anything like American hot chocolate.
It's totally different. But if you're here in Wahaka or
maybe in a mountainous region it's a little bit cold, rainy, drizzly, foggy, cloudy,
(49:19):
drinking a cup of Mexican hot chocolate, it's like getting
a hug to your soul, or maybe like getting a
hug from a brandma like you didn't even.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Know you that.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
What country are you most excited a visit?
Speaker 3 (49:34):
I have two, since I love ancient civilizations and ancient ruins,
I have to go to at some point Egypt and or.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Great Choices.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, not too bad. And John's been to Egypt. You've
been to Pru as well, haven't you. He did Machu
Picchu last year. I think it was two years ago,
the in country two years ago. Still on the list, Adam,
thank you so much for getting on the show with us.
All the information is super helpful and learn not only
for listeners but ourselves. If our listeners want to learn
(50:06):
more about you, where can they find you?
Speaker 3 (50:09):
They can find me on substack. My substack is adammaze
dot substack dot com and amaze yous m I.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Valuable And you can find out a little bit more
about us by visiting our website at www dot gtspodcast
dot com. You can find us on Instagram or Facebook
at Globetrotters Podcast, Twitter at globetrot Pod. Make sure you
drop us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You
enjoyed listening to this episode.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Editing was done by a very own Jonathan Otero.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Until next time,
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