Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 6 | April 10th, 2025 - Golf Talk Live

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
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Speaker 1 (00:22):
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(00:42):
Welcome to Golf Talk Live with your host ted Oto Rico.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Join Ted each week.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
As he speaks with some of the best in golf.
This week's special guest will join us a bit later.
But first up is another great discussion on Coach's Corner,
So let's introduce tonight's coaches Corner Panel.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
Good evening, everybody, Welcome to Season thirteen of Golf Talk Live.
I'm your host Tedo di Rico. We've got a great
show this week. Joining me on the Coach's Corner panel
is John Hughes and Jim Endicott. A little bit later,
I'm going to be joined by golf fitness professional Bob Foreman,
and he's here to talk about building power in your swing.
A little bit later on, I'm going to be joined

(01:25):
by my featured guest of the evening Elsbeth Hurry, who
is the co founder and CEO of Ziggot, which is
a great app and we'll talk to you more about
that a little bit later on the broadcast. Don't forget
to tune in every week on our YouTube channel, the
IE Golf Sports YouTube channel, where you can see all
of the latest broadcasts both for Golf Talk Live and
also The Women of Golf, which airs every Tuesday morning

(01:46):
from nine to ten am Eastern. You can check them
out on the I Golf Sports YouTube channel. Also check
out some of the short videos and some of the
featured interviews that have been posted up there. Already a
lot of great stuff, a lot of great information, and
a lot of great guests, so I hope you'll tune in. Also,
Golf Tips Magazine has gone to a new format, completely
online and.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Completely all digital.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
The publication has now moved to a premium website, So
if you go to Golf tipsmag dot com, there's a
lot of information there to talk about how you can
sign up and become a Premium member, and there's three
levels of Premium, Silver, Gold, and Platinum, and so far
a lot of people are signing up for the Platinum.
It's a great deal. Check out the benefits there. But
go to Golf tipsmag dot com and check out some

(02:28):
of the new features and some of the great posts
that have already been put up through on the website.
But glad you could join me tonight and I'm going
to introduce the guys here. We're going to get into
our discussion on coaches corner. So first up if John Hughes.
He's a pjamaster professional. He's also the honorary president of
the North Florida PGA Section and the twenty thirteen PGA
of America's Professional Development Award recipient. He's also the twenty

(02:51):
twenty three Northforida PGA Teacher and Coach of the Year,
and he's a senior contributing editor and a Golf Tips
Magazine Top twenty five instructor. Also on the panel tonight
is Jim Ennicott. He's currently a PGA Education Faculty Member
and a PJA specializing professional in both teaching and coaching.
He's a former Golf Digest Schools General Manager and a
seven time PGA Award winner, including the twenty twenty two

(03:14):
Northforida PJ Section Patriot Award and two Northforida PJ Youth
Development Awards. And he's also a contributing editor and top
twenty five instructor with Golf Tips magazine. So, guys, welcome
to Coaches Corner tonight. Masters night, I guess the eve
of the first day on the Master, So welcome guys.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
That's true.

Speaker 6 (03:35):
Thank you, Ted, It's great to be here.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Thanks being here with you, John, I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
I'm looking forward to our discussion tonight. And just on
a quick note, Jim, I think you were just giving
us a short little update on what's happening on the Masters.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
I think you said Justin Rose is in the lead
at what's seven under?

Speaker 6 (03:54):
Yeah, Justin Rose, he was a seven under Scott he's
behind him that minus four, and it looks like it's
going to be a great feel there's a very large
number at minus one.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
So yeah, but it's within reach.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Everybody's knocking on the door. So yeah, it's gonna be
an interesting weekend. I'm going to try to catch as
much of it as I can. I know, I've got
a lot of things to do. Is I'm sure you
guys do, but always try to check out here and
there whenever I can to see what's happening at Augusta National.
So obviously that'll be a great event, first major of
the season. All right, So my question to you guys is,

(04:30):
and this is really too all of our viewers out
there and listeners to this podcast, are you mentally prepared?
And that's a question. It's kind of a one of
those questions that you know, what are we prepared for?
And I'm going to give you that here in just
a second. So I was thinking because of the masters,

(04:51):
you know, most of these guys that are playing out
there right now, we know that they can hit a
good ball. We know that they're pretty consistent with their play.
So really it comes into the mind game and also
emotions and things like that. I know we've talked about
that here before many times. But I've got some specific
questions here that are going to dial in in certain
areas that I want to cover, and John, I'm going

(05:13):
to talk to you first, and the first one is
how do we turn our obstacles into challenges?

Speaker 5 (05:23):
I'm glad you specified what we're mentally ready for, so
I knew how to answer the question. Jim. Always good
to see it, miss you here in North Florida. Obstacles
and challenges, it's a mindset. It's literally a flip of
a coin. Obstacles tend to be excuses. Challenges tend to

(05:43):
be what can I prove? What can I do? And
it's very simple in that manner when you can look
at an obstacle or even a distraction and basically dissect
and figure out why is it an obstacle? Is it

(06:04):
a visual? Is it an auditory? Is it an emotional?
What is that obstacle? Can you label it in such
a colorful way so you better understand it, and once
you better understand it related to who you are, not
as a golfer, just to who you are as a person,
and then be able to say, you know what, I
deal with these obstacles off the golf course in this manner,

(06:28):
why would you not use something that you're very familiar
with and very successful with on the golf course. The
difference is that balls laying there sort of looking at
you trying to get rid of the obstacle and present
the challenge right from the opposite. Once you've figured out okay,

(06:49):
I've labeled this obstacle, the question being how do you
make it a challenge? Think of it as a problem,
think of it is here's what problems solving methodology do
I want to go through with this particular shot, with
this particular situation. What does it call for? And are
you inventoring your skills not just what's in your bag,

(07:13):
but what you have today now, yesterday, not tomorrow? What
do I have today? And that's part of the challenge,
is being able to understand who you are right now
and what can you do with this problem? And then
from there you've probably used problem solving methodologies in other
parts of your life. They can be applied on the

(07:34):
golf course too. As you're solving this problem, you're defining
the challenge, you're defining what the mission is. Ultimately, what
your brain sees is point A to point B, the
golf ball from where it lies to where you want
it to be. But there could be physical obstacles, meaning trees,

(07:54):
whatever it is are, those are what they offer. I
think really talking about is the obstacles within us, the
obstacles that keep us from being able to see that
challenge and again when you dissect it but labels on
it and then take your own inventory, you can start
seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, getting

(08:16):
to see where that be is and how you're going
to get the ball there. From that point, once you
recognize it's a challenge, you've got to go all in
with blinders so you can distract anything else that's going
to come about as you're trying to execute the shot.
And that's where most amateurs have the issue. They can
go through the problem solving, create the challenge, but will

(08:40):
they stand over that ball and be committed? And that's
what a challenge takes, is a full commitment, and that's
all golf asks you to do in a very short
period of time to be able to not only navigate
your obstacles, but be able to successfully take on the

(09:02):
challenges and have some type of positive come through it.
So you know, okay, next, here's my next shot. But
you've got to stay there to understand what that obstacle is,
how to define it, how to put it into a challenge,
and then be able to just execute. You know, you're

(09:23):
everywhere with that, but it's it's not as easy. It's
not as clear cut as most people think, and it's
different for everybody, and I try to put that in there.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yeah, and a lot of obstacles.

Speaker 4 (09:37):
You know, people think of just what's on the golf
course or what's next eior, But yeah, there's a lot
of internal dialogue that goes on and that throws up
roadblocks for people and creates a lot of, you know,
its own challenges, never mind what you're facing with on
the golf course. So yeah, you've got to really manage
yourself internally as well as externally in order to be

(09:58):
successful out on the golf course. Jim, there's certain things
that you can and cannot control, and I think it's
important that you emphasize what you can control and not
what you can't control. So maybe you could sort of
unpack that a little bit, talk about that and how
do we sort of emphasize what we can control, in
other words, focus more on what we can control, and

(10:19):
then what do we do to deal with the things
that we can control.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Do we put through aside or how do we handle those.

Speaker 6 (10:26):
That's a great question, the idea of what we can
control and what we can't control. I kind of look
at it in terms of when I'm in a situation,
I have to go through a process. I have to
go through a process of this is where I'm at,
and this is where I'm trying to go, and this
is how I'm going to negotiate what's between me and

(10:50):
the end results. And I can control those decisions. I
can control what I'm going to do, but I can't
control as thea where the ball is sitting. I can't
control what I have to navigate in front of me.
I can control how I might navigate it, but I
can't control the wind. I can't control how the ball

(11:11):
is going to land on the green and that sort
of thing. And so what I have to do is
look at the processes versus the action. And when I
say that we're going to look at where's the ball sitting,
what's the lie dictate and tell me that I am
able to do. Then I have to make a decision

(11:32):
and say I'm going to make my ball go in
this manner. I'm going to start it to the right,
and I'm going to curver around this tree. Those are
things I can control. How I can go about doing that,
but that comes through what I call the mental process
of decision making. How far am I? What's the lie?

(11:56):
What's the wind is, what's the elevation? I have to
negotiate that. As John was talking about, I have to
create that as the challenge, or I like to also
look at it as the opportunity. I have an opportunity
to move my ball from here to there. Now, once
I have struck it, it's out of my control. And

(12:16):
wherever that ball ends up, I have to now go
to it and say, Okay, here's where it is, here's
where I'm going. What does the lie tell me I'm
able to do? Can I hit it high? Can I
hit it low? If I can only hit it low?
From the situation and I have to go over a bunker,

(12:40):
I can't control that situation. I have to now decide
I'm not going over it. That wins, I'm going to
go around it. And so the controllables are our process.
The uncontrollables are what happens after the process. After I've
struck it. It's out there, it's going to do what

(13:04):
it's going to do. I have to then go to
it and say, okay, I have this situation. I have
that to navigate. What can I do to control it?
To navigate it to that point and then do it
and then go react to it again, and we just
navigate our way around the golf course. Golf is a

(13:26):
game of hit my golf ball at a target a
certain distance that comes from navigating all the obstacles, as
John was talking about, from where it's sitting to where
I'm going, and then pull the trigger and do it.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, some great, great analogy. And you know what, it just.

Speaker 4 (13:53):
Goes to how I guess easy it is for people
to get them selves. And this is going to lead
to what I want you to talk about now, is
to a certain level of anxiety because they don't look
at things in as clear of a picture as what
you both have just pointed out. They tend to focus

(14:17):
so much on the process and worry about what the
outcome may or may not be, where in some case
they may not have control of that outcome. So they
have to look at, Okay, how can I best tackle
this particular scenario.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
What are the odds?

Speaker 4 (14:31):
And we've talked about this, Jim, you've mentioned many times
as John has is what's the percentage of success or
likelihood of success that I'm going to be able to
pull this shot?

Speaker 3 (14:40):
Off.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
If I'm a twenty five handicapper and less than thirty
percent of the time or forty percent of the time
I can't pull this shot off, then I need to
look at other options. And unfortunately most people don't. They
see what they see on TV and they say, well,
I can do that or I'm going to give that
a try, and then they're in all kinds of trouble.
So this raises John the level of anxiet. So how

(15:01):
can we use anxiety as a queue. So if we're
experiencing anxiety, that's really a trigger that's telling us, Okay,
I'm feeling anxious maybe about that shot, I'm feeling anxious
about this particular hole. How can we then take that
anxiety recognize it as a queue that, hey, we're a
little bit nervous or stressed out right now, And then
how can we sort of turn the tide and shift

(15:22):
things around.

Speaker 5 (15:24):
So I'm an amateur psychologist at best. The three of
us aren't. But anxiety in golf. You said it, but
I'm going to reverse it. Sure are they process thinking
only because they're emotionally attached to what they think the

(15:48):
ball should be doing. They're not necessarily process their result oriented,
and it's the lack of knowledge or the lack of
ability to understand in what that It's not the result
as far as the ball flying there or rolling there
or curving there. It's wow, I'm here and that's there,

(16:12):
and I'm supposed to be doing this, and that's the anxiety.
And all of a sudden, brain starts working faster. Time
doesn't stand still. It warp speeds, and you just get
out of sorts. You get out of organized thoughts that
are normally in this nice little process. That's really the key.

(16:34):
I don't think people get into the process and then
get anxious about the result. Most amateurs are not skilled
enough to even know.

Speaker 6 (16:42):
How to get the result right.

Speaker 5 (16:44):
And because of that, it works bad. Now all of
a sudden, I don't know, I don't know, and that
right there is going to trigger the anxiety. It's okay
that it's okay that you may not have these particular
skills to pull it off like the people that we
admire on TV. You said it best. These people are
on we're seeing the twelve to seventeen best players for

(17:07):
that day on the TV. You are not one of
those people. You don't have those skills but yet the
anxiety of saying, well, I should be able to do that. No,
you shouldn't very quickly, No you shouldn't. Do you practice
that much? Are you in the gym that much? Are
you going through a process to level your anxiety to

(17:29):
actually twist it back into positive energy to go you
know what, I don't have to hit it high. It
doesn't have to curve this way. As a matter of fact,
it doesn't even have to get there based on my skills.
Maybe it's bumping it out so I have a better
shot than taking a little bit of medicine. That anxiety
is what leads to the doubles and triples the others,

(17:52):
because you're trying to pull off the hero shot with
having no clue nor the skills to pull it off.
It's until you decay what your anxiety is really saying.
What your anxiety is really saying is I may not
be able to do that, which goes back to what
you said. It's about percentages. This percentage over to the

(18:13):
left side, getting away from the tree, putting it back
into play, advancing it gives me a better percentage of
lowering the score. And I think once amateurs wrap their
arms around that there's a maturity level that kicks in.
From golf IQ standpoint of view, Jim and I have

(18:33):
had this discussion with junior tournament players. It's not until
they figure these things out that they become better. And
it has nothing to do with skill. It has everything
to do what can I do today? And Okay, my
anxiety's got me, but I'm not going to let it
totally control me. That is one thing you do have

(18:54):
control over how you react to your anxiety. And if
you just react and just go about out your business
flailing shots everywhere, that's your faults. That that was your decision.
Let's grab that anxiety, look at the energy to it
and what is it telling you, And if you're listening
to that, the pathway to get where you need to

(19:17):
go becomes more evident or clear, and all of a sudden,
things settle down. Time doesn't work, time doesn't go and
warp speeding.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
Yeah, and you really have to put thought into how
you're going to move things forward, you know, And it
doesn't necessarily have to take a lot of time. Obviously,
practice and experience comes in deploy it to play at
some point. Obviously, as junior golfers, as they start to
develop and hone their skills, not just their their physical skills,
but their mental skills. They start to learn exactly some

(19:48):
of the things that you're talking about. And unfortunately, there's
a segment, and a very large segment, unfortunately, of many
amateurs out there that have not really honed some of
these skills. They're so you know, bent on you know,
trying to hit the ball a certain way or trying
to get their swing looking such a way that they're
not really focusing on the things they're going to help

(20:08):
them become a better player, and they get caught in this.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
It's like a loop.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
It's in a trap, and the frustration level, the anxiety
levels just keep going up. And then either one or
two things happen. Either they try something completely out of
the box which can ultimately maybe potentially make it worse,
or they just give up out of frustration. So sometimes
developing these skills, even late in life, late in your

(20:32):
in your your golfing career, if you will, is better
than not. And sometimes you have to say take your
medicine and just deal with Okay, that was a bad shot,
that was a bad hole. Let's leave that behind. Let's
not ramp up the anxiety and let's focus on the
next shot and see if we can work through that
process a little bit easier. But great, great unpacking of

(20:53):
that one. Thank you John. You know, Jim, I think
a lot of people use golf imagery as part of
their practice. You know, we're visualizing what that first hole
is going to be like, and I think that's something
that certainly helps a lot of people. But I'm going
to give you actually a different question, but i want

(21:14):
you to maybe talk a little bit about that because
I think they can kind of work hand in hand,
and that is creating an attitude for competition. And obviously,
if you're going to be playing, whether it's in your
club championship or you're playing in a junior event or
what have you, when you're practicing, you're not just out
there beating balls, as we've talked about many times. You're
actually visualizing what it is you're about to do, whether

(21:36):
it's to play in the tournament next week, or it's
maybe to play in that event today, play in the Masters.
Even so, you're developing an imagery, if you will, as
part of your practice, but you're also trying to help
get yourself into an attitude for competition.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
So how do we do that?

Speaker 4 (21:51):
How do we get our mindset in such a way
that we're getting it ramped up and ready to play
in a competitive round.

Speaker 6 (21:58):
I'll start off with which you just talked about on
the imagery idea, and I think it ties back to
what John was talking about about the anxiety in that
we all too often see our players start off with
the picture of what they want to do, and they've
taken that picture based on where they want to go

(22:21):
or the result they would like to have. However, if
the situation, the skill set, the lie, the abilities don't
match that image, we get that anxiety that John was
talking about. And I think it comes back to what

(22:42):
you're saying here. In preparing ourselves for competition, we have
to understand how we go about our competitive nature. Are
we one who says I'm risk at all costs? Or
am I one who is want to navigate myself around
the golf course with the idea? And I like to

(23:04):
look at golf in general as our objective is to
hit our golf ball from where we are to a
better place than we are giving us. As John was saying,
a good chance to hit a good one on the
next one. And so preparing for a competition, I want
to have to prepare my skill set. Am I able

(23:26):
to hit the shots I want to be able to hit?

Speaker 5 (23:28):
It?

Speaker 6 (23:30):
Second, I need to understand the golf course and how
I'm going to navigate that ability around that golf course.
And that comes in with everybody. Meaning if an accomplished
single digit handicap is going to navigate the golf course
differently than someone who maybe is a fifteen or twenty

(23:53):
handicap playing in their flight of the club championship. And
so we have to look at our imagery to be
sure that the image, the picture of what I want
to do isn't a picture based on ego and I've
seen it, but is it an image that fits what

(24:13):
I'm able to do? And now I mapped the strategy
on the golf course, and if it's my club championship,
I've played that golf course a number of times a
lot of times, and so I know that I can
play this hole this way and that's my best way
to play it. So then I take that image to

(24:33):
my skill set and plug it into that hole, and
I navigate all the holes that way, and I set
out a plan. I say to myself, okay, pule number one,
two three. Let's say I'm a five handicap, and I say,
hole number one, two and three those are par holes
for me. Whole number four that's bogey hole. Pull number five.

(24:56):
I typically burdy that hole, and so I map accordingly,
and within that I look at it and say, if
that's my bogie hole, how do I ensure that bogie
is the worst I have? And potentially if I perform
and I make a putt, I make par. And so

(25:17):
I go from an image imagery perspective to skill set
to mapping the golf course. From an image perspective, the
map of the golf course takes me back to the
skill set I need to perform and work in practice
I need to work. I think back to a story

(25:38):
of when Corey Pavin won the US Open at Shinnecok.
Here was a player who wasn't a very long hitter.
He came out to grant Cypress where I was practicing,
and he spent two days and he hit two days
of golf shots one hundred yards and in going to
one of the longest golf courses at that time in

(25:58):
the history of the open, why I'm going to miss
a lot of greens. So my strategy has to be
how do I get it to a place that my
wedge works for me? So his practice fit what the
map of the golf course was. The map of the
golf course came from his perspective and image of what
he was able to do on that golf course. So

(26:20):
it kind of goes back and forth, picture of where
I'm going, map it skill set, but skill set helps
to create what that image and map can be.

Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah, I remember that tournament very well, and you know,
Corey excuse me, was definitely not a very long hitter,
but he had a pretty stellar short game, as I recall.
So yeah, and you know, it goes back to what
we've said so many times is you know, it's great
to be able to stripe one a long way down,

(26:52):
you know, and obviously if you're fortunate enough to get
it in the middle of the fairway, that's a bonus.
But the average golfer out there, you know, if they
would just focus on the one hundred yards in and
really get that solid, they would avoid a lot of
these big numbers that we you know, we talk about
so much and be able to reduce those those handicaps, John,

(27:14):
is it possible for us, you know, with some of
what we talked about here already tonight, But how do
we go about warming up our our sort of golf
mental routine? You know, how do we prepare ourselves mentally
as we're coming in. I know Jim talked about some
things and obviously imagery and so forth, But is it
possible to actually warm up our golf mental routine? And

(27:36):
if so, how do we do that.

Speaker 5 (27:38):
There? I'm going to take this in two parts. There's
a warm up prior to getting there. You've got to prepare.
I call them the what ifs, And the most competitive
people ever in any sport are warming up to and
warming up as far as embracing warming up to the

(27:59):
most traffic of situations that could occur. Jim very eloquently
talked about the navigation and the normal I'm going to
use this term. It's the first time my head. The
normalcy of what we want our games to be. Boring
golf is actually good golf. And if it's very normal,

(28:21):
then we're good. But what if you're here or what
if you're there? And it's whether it's Michael Jordan Tiger Woods.
Uh yeah, you name it. You name the athlete in
the sport, Tom Brady. They're always practicing the what ifs.

(28:42):
What Okay, everything's supposed to go normal, but what if
this happens and what if that happens? And you've got
to embrace that in a very warm way to bring
your practice level up so high that no matter what
you face out there, it's going to be normal because
you've prepared for it. So that's half the preparation. I think,

(29:07):
really what you're trying to ask was, Hey, as we're
getting closer to that date or it's the actual date,
watch these guys pre round this weekend during the Masters.
When they pull the alignment sticks off the ground, that's
what they're doing. They're preparing the plan that Jim talked

(29:28):
about on whatever hole. And it could be a nemesis
hole for somebody, but it could also be, Hey, let
me navigate the first two or three holes. I want
to get off to a level start. I don't necessarily
need a rock star start, but I certainly don't need
to start four over For four holes. I've shot myself
from the foot and there's a mechanical warm up, there's

(29:51):
a tempo warm up. When they pull those sticks off
the ground, that's exactly what they're doing, and that's what
an average amateur should be doing. The problem is you
don't get to the golf course. Sometimes you don't get
there to actually go through that. Most people don't even
go through a physical warm up. Nonetheless, Hey, let me
envision my map for the first couple of holes or

(30:14):
what's my nemesis hole on this golf course. I think
it's twofold there. You must warm up your practice. You
must bring it to a level that you would never
ever conceive ever happening, because trust me, it will. You
can ask any of us it will. But if you're
not prepared for it, both beforehand and then as you're playing,

(30:37):
as you're practicing, and you'll see this every once in
a while when somebody's game is off, you'll see them
hitting certain curvature shots as they take those sticks off
the ground. Is it left to right?

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Is it right to left?

Speaker 5 (30:50):
Is a high? Is it low? That's the warm up
you're talking about. But they're also keeping in the back
of their mind the level of preparedness prior to getting there.
This becomes much easier and most people don't have the
time to do that rightfully, So there's other life priorities
for you to be doing. But if you can take

(31:10):
a small, just a small bit of that book that
these guys and gals do out there and appreciate what
they put into it and what you do with it
off the golf course. I'm still a big believer that
everybody successful off the golf course, and if you're really successful,
you've prepared for the what ifs. You've done your homework

(31:33):
that way. What if you took just a little bit
of that and applied it to your golf game.

Speaker 4 (31:39):
You know, it's interesting because I can remember, you know,
growing up and being in sales.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Very early on in my career, and you know, I.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
Remember always having to be prepared for a sales call.
It wasn't even a cold call. You know, you always
want to be prepared because there were going to be
questions that you were going to be faced with the
prospect you know, you're you're doing some prospecting, you're trying
to find some develop some leads, and you know, I
remember speaking when I first started getting into teaching, and

(32:12):
I talked to with some of my earlier corporate clients
I always asked him. I said, well, when you have
a meeting, whether it be with a client or you're
you know, the one of the senior executives is calling
you in, and they're calling all the executives in for
a meeting. You go in that meeting prepared. You don't
just sort of show up. At least you shouldn't otherwise.
If you know, if the CEO asked you a question
and you're looking like a deer with the headlights, you

(32:34):
know you're going to be having a conversation with him
or her after the meeting because they're going to say,
why weren't you prepared?

Speaker 7 (32:39):
So?

Speaker 4 (32:40):
And it always baffled me when I would talk to
some of these executives and say, why don't you put
that same energy in preparing for your golf game. You
want to be a better player, and you're preparing for
the boardroom, but you're not preparing for the golf course.
Why is that You want to be successful in your job,
but you're not being successful on the golf. And I

(33:00):
don't mean that you have to be a five handicap
or whatever, but you know what I'm talking about. They're
not prepared for anything, and they don't understand that you've
got to put the same effort in.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
You were going to say, this.

Speaker 5 (33:09):
Doesn't take a lot. I mean, let's put it in
life priority perspective. But it might take four minutes the
last four minutes of your practice. It may take the
last Hey, let me go hit four foot putts before
I finished practice, because that's where that's my nemesis. Yea,

(33:30):
And what if this four foot putt was treacherously down
a hill left or right? Okay, that's better than nothing.
I bet you. Jim can share some stories watching the
tournament series he manages about that preparation and how at
younger ages, the ones that stand out are the ones

(33:50):
who are more prepared, wouldn't you think, Jim.

Speaker 6 (33:53):
One hundred percent? They're the ones who get there an
hour before and they have they have their process and
rooms team of how they're going to get prepared for
that day, you know. And some are to the putting
green and then to the range. Some are to the
range and then to the putting green. But they have
their process, and I watch it week in and week out.

(34:14):
They do it the same. They do it the same
way each time, getting themselves prepared for the wardroom, if
you will, and their boardroom has to be eighteen holes
on grass.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, yep, yeah, that's exactly right.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
And that's really you know, what we're doing as golf
professionals is helping them develop a plan that's going to
enable them to do that consistently so that when they
come out to the golf course, all of the things
that we're teaching them and helping them to taylor made
for their game is something that they can put in
practice in a regular routine basis. And once they're able

(34:49):
to do that with some consistency, they're going to see
that their level of play starts to get better as well.
And it's really becomes down to organization. You know, we've
had to become very good organganizers in what we do
as we prepare for lessons, as we prepare for a
new season, whatever the case is. We don't just come
out and open the door and say, well, okay, the
golfers are coming, I see them coming.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
Up the driveway.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
We'll just figure out what happens this season. No, you
prepare for the season. You prepare for return golfers that
may be coming back for tune ups or wanting to
take their game to the next level, or you're preparing
for a new batch of beginners that are just starting to,
you know, get their game on the road. But you
have to prepare as a golf coach, as an instructor
to do that, and if you don't, then you're not

(35:30):
going to be very successful. And so I mean it's
the same for them. They've got to be able to
do that as well. Jim, I'm going to come back
to you and and I think it's important that you
kind of set up some mental goals I think as well,
just like we set other goals throughout the season, and
then it's also important, I think, to monitor them as
well to see how we're progressing through those. So, what

(35:50):
are some maybe some goals that you can think of
meant for sort of the mind game, if you will,
that we could set as an example, and then how
do we sort of monitor it and what what are
we looking for when we're sort of assessing that.

Speaker 6 (36:04):
I think as we keep talking about the mental side
of the game, there's there's really two components to it.
There's there's what i'll call the mental processes, and then
there's the mental imagery. And so when I set up
my goals for either or the processes are now the
preshot routine, how do I assess the dynamics of what

(36:28):
I'm going to hit? And the mental imagery is the
picture of what I'm going to hit? And the picture
of what I'm going to hit is going to have
a couple of items to it. One is can I
control that picture I establish that I want to hit
this shot of just right of the flag over the water,

(36:49):
or does my picture look at that and say, oh, geez,
don't go in the water. I'm not controlling my image.
And then how clear is that image? How clear is
it that I can see? I think back to reading
something on Jack Nicholas, and he talked about how he
not only saw the flight of the golf ball, he
saw its trajectory, it saw its curvature, he saw it

(37:10):
landed on the green and how it reacted on the green,
which I think was tremendous. So in setting out our goals,
I think we have to look at it from both perspectives.
We have to look at it as how am I
going to establish my process? What is my process from
arrival at the ball to execution of the shot? Then

(37:34):
what is my post shot process from executing the shot
to putting the club away and moving on to the
next And so there's getting ready, there's assessing what I
did and then getting ready again. And I think we
can establish a number of items that those involve. But

(38:00):
then on the flip side, on the image side, I
can work on that controllability and that vividness. I can
close my eyes and I can imagine that difficult hole
at my golf course that I make bogie on or
double bogie or worse if I'm a higher handicap, and

(38:21):
I can look at that hole in my mind because
I've played it enough, I have a great picture of it,
and I can picture where I want the ball to
go and how I want it to go. And then
I can establish my goals on that, here's my processes,
here's what I'm going to do each and every time.

(38:42):
And then I can monitor that post round, and I
can monitor it post round with statistics, and I can
monitor a post round on just simply reflective imagery or
reflecting on it. And then on the image side, I
can set out my goals that I want to be
able to see my shots and I want to be

(39:04):
able to see them clearly and then I want to
be able to execute those and so now I can
reflect again after my round. Was I engaged? Did I
determine this is the picture? And did I stay in
that picture? Did I stay within that frame? Or did
I deviate and say here's my picture? Ohgies, I go

(39:29):
in that water all the time. Now I wasn't in
control of my picture. And we have to understand our
body will manifest with the mind. Harbor's. So if I
can keep that picture of where I wanted to go
and I can retain the framing of that, I got
a great chance for my skill set to perform to

(39:51):
that picture.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Well, so.

Speaker 6 (39:55):
Set the processes, set the pictures, monitor it by reflection
after the round, after the month, after many rounds, or
after the year.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Well said, Very good, John.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Final question for you is, we have a lot of
our players out there that seem to be dragging a
lot of emotional baggage along with them. We've talked about that,
I know before, But if we really want to improve
our mental game preparation, you've got to be willing to

(40:31):
let go. And I always I always use this analogy.
I equate it with you know, going through the airport,
you know you're dragging your bags along. Some bags you check.
Maybe you take a carry on, which is your most
important that's maybe where your money, where your phone, whatever,
the case is all your you know, your valuables are
in there. So the important stuff is in that bag
that you're taking on the on the plane. The others

(40:53):
check bag that you're going to leave and it's going
to get there eventually. And then there's something you're not
going to bring at all. Uh, what do we do
with the baggage that we don't want to take with
us to the golf course? How do we you know how,
in order to improve and prepare for around, we've got
to be willing to let go of the past.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
How do we do that?

Speaker 5 (41:12):
Well, you took my final line to toss it. Leave it.
It doesn't need to come with you. The I think
what most people do is that they don't realize the
baggage they're bringing with them until it's too late. And

(41:33):
we've seen some really good careers, not only in golf,
but in other sports where this baggage at home, or
the baggage in business, or the baggage of whatever now
distracts and gets in the way and we talked about
that earlier. How do you leave it back there? It

(41:54):
literally takes a mindset, and it does take some energy,
and it takes a commitment to basically draw a line
in the sand and say enough's enough. This doesn't come
with me, that this does not go with me to
the golf course. There are some people who do that
really really well, and then there's others because they're not

(42:15):
recognizing what the baggage is bring it with him. One
of the things this actually occurred today. I've got a
collegiate player that freshman year has done pretty well from
a mechanics, from a physical fitness standpoint of view, goes
to qualify multiple qualifying rounds. He played two days ago

(42:39):
and after seven holes he was even pard and the
baggage that he had was Wow, if I continue to
do this, I may qualify. And he literally it wasn't
that he left the baggage behind. He actually threw the
baggage on the plane before he ever got on right.

(43:00):
That's the other thing that people don't recognize they're doing.
They get so far ahead of themselves because they have
one or two holes that were great where they strung
three or four shots together. Hey, what if I can
do it. Well, that's not the what ifs I was
talking about before. Those what ifs are situations if you're thinking,

(43:20):
what if I do this. It's great to dream, and
it's great to have goals and processes to reach your dreams.
But in the middle of a round, any of this
baggage is going to get in the way. And I
think what I hear most don't know what gym here is,
but what I hear most is the baggage that gets
most in the way is not being in the present.

(43:42):
You're so far into the future, having dreams of grandeur,
not knowing what those dreams require, or even having the
inventory to acquire them. Then all of a sudden, you're
so disappointed. What's funny about that is the next thing
somebody does is screw it. I'm not gonna forget it.

(44:07):
They toss everything away, You toss in the towel. What
have you tossed away? You've tossed away the baggage, and
now you're back in the present, going, let me just
hit a shot and have some fun, and all of
a sudden it comes back. You know that that's the
baggage I see the most as a coach, and it
infiltrates at every level. The winner of this week is

(44:31):
going to be the one that stays in the present.
He's not in the back dragging the bag that he
talked about, but he's not four holes in front throwing
everything onto the plane. You haven't gotten there yet. The
plane hasn't taken off. You got to get there first.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
Yeah, and a lot of a lot of players are
exactly right, because a lot of players do. Even at
the Masters. You know, I'm sure there's a lot of
players that probably have gotten themselves into trouble because they
were thinking about, you know, two holes ahead, Okay, I
got to make sure I'm in a good position for
these two holes that I'm the one and playing now
in the next one, to make sure when I get there,
I'm going to be at a certain score otherwise, you know,

(45:07):
and they start thinking two three holes ahead, and realistically,
there is a certain element of truth that you might
be thinking.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
About that to some level, but if you get caught.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
Up in that as the emotions of it, Yeah, I mean,
there's a lot of players that we've seen done really
great at the Masters, and then all of a sudden,
it's like somebody pulled the rug out from underneath him,
and it's like, what's going on here. They didn't just
suddenly lose the skill to be able to hit some
good shots. Something got inside their head, whatever it might
have been, something got inside their head that's now caused

(45:38):
them to not be in the moment, to either be
in the somewhere in the past or as you say,
schlepping the bags up on the plane ahead of time
and they're not focused at what they need to be
doing now. But great discussion, guys. As always always enjoy
having you. Guys, bring your best. We're going to give
you a moment or two. John, I'm going to come
to you and then Jim, how the folks if they

(45:58):
want to reach out to you the best way to
do that.

Speaker 5 (46:02):
John hughesgolf dot com. That or add the hashtag or
ampersion or whatever it is ahead of time. Very easy
to find me. I'm at the Omni Orlando Resort of Championsgate.
Wonderful place, love calling it home. Fantastic move for me.
Phone numbers on the website, a lot of new content

(46:24):
going into the website, a lot of new content going
onto YouTube. Reach out. That's as simple as it is
just reach out. You'll get a response from me, not
somebody else. And hope you do come to Orlando and
visit me.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Yeah, it's a great place. John's a great guy to
connect with. Jim.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
What about you best way if folks want to reach
out to you and any final thoughts.

Speaker 6 (46:46):
Yes, thank you John for a great show, and thank
you Ted for having me on. You can find me
in Frisco, Texas, just a suburb of Dallas. I'm here
at PGA headquarters and I could be reached at him
at indocotgolf dot com.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
And all all of your contact information is there so
you can reach out to Jim and connect with him
and John at john use golf dot com. All right,
thank you guys for a great discussion on Coaches Corner. Always,
I look forward to the next time. I'm going to
take a quick commercial break and to hear from one
of our advertisers.

Speaker 7 (47:23):
M m.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
Mm hmmm. Welcome back to Golf Talk Live again. I'm
your host, Heeder ohto Rico. My very special guest joining

(48:10):
me now on the fitness segment of our program is
my good friend, certified golf fitness professional Bob Foreman. And
here's just a little bit about Bob and then we'll
get into tonight's discussion. He's a former director of Fitness
and Wellness for the Congressional Country Club in Bethesda, Maryland.
He's internationally knows as a leader in the field of

(48:31):
golf fitness, and his programs have been recognized multiple years
in a row, from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty
three by the Golf Fitness Association of America. He olds
a Master of Science degree and exercise physiology and a
certified golf Fitness instructor through the TPI or Titleist Performance Institute.
And he's available for fitness sessions and all kinds of

(48:55):
great things. And I'm going to get him to just
tell you a little bit about his book here in
just a moment.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
But Bob, welcome back to Golf Talk Live.

Speaker 8 (49:03):
Thanks Ted pleasure being here.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
All right, So just quickly, if you want to go
ahead and give a quick plug to the book, and
I'll give you an opportunity again as we wrap up
in a little bit.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
But just let folks know about your book and where
can they go and get it.

Speaker 8 (49:14):
Yeah, the book is on the book patch and it's
called Functional Golf Fitness Training and it talks about all
the things that we've talked about, how to go about
assessing for specific muscular skeletal deficiencies that might be impacting
your golf swing, your playing performance, your distance, injury potential.

(49:35):
It kind of goes into explaining some exercises that you
can do for each specific deficiency that the golfers may have.
So it's a good resource book for golfers, for coaches,
and for PGA teaching professionals.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
And it's at the golf Patch, the book Patch, book Patch.
I'm sorry, book Patch, book Patch.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Perfect.

Speaker 4 (49:56):
All right, we'll give that again a little bit later on.
We're so what I'm going to do, Bob, as you
sent me a number of images and I've sort of
put them together like we did the last time, and
we're going to talk about really power. This particular segment
we talked about, you know, strength and so forth, but
we're really going to talk about building up power in
our swing. And here's some exercise. So I'm going to

(50:19):
run this here and then you're going to talk The
first one we're gonna we're going to talk about is
the chest and here we're going to go to the
image here, So tell us a bit a little about
what you're doing. What's the exercise here and what is it?
What are you specifically are you working on? All?

Speaker 8 (50:36):
Right, So this is a medicine ball slam. We're kind
of isolating the chest and the back of the arms,
the try sp and we're working on power exercise or
speed exercises. And they are important to do because they
help to recruit the faster twitch muscle fibers that are

(50:56):
the muscle groups that you want to recruit when you're
swinging the golf club because the faster twitch are responsible
for short, quick bursts of energy. So it takes well
on one point five seconds to swing a golf club,
so you want to be able to recruit those guys.
So unfortunately, as we get older, you know, we lose

(51:16):
muscle tissue, and a lot of that muscle tissue we
lose is those type two or fast twitched muscle fibers.
So you have to train those the ones that you
have left at least, and the only way you're going
to do that and to help recruit those is to
do these power slash speed exercises. Now, you want to
build up that strength base before you get into the

(51:39):
power exercises because they're a little more intense. They will
also will challenge your cardio, So it's definitely a progression
that you want to follow. But once you've build up
that strength base that we talked about two weeks ago,
you can definitely start to incorporate these power exercises. So
this exercise here, you can do it against the cement wall,
and you can do it against the boundary here that

(52:01):
I'm doing in the picture, and again it isolates the
chest in the back of the arms, and you're doing
like fifteen to twenty reps as quick as possible and recruiting,
like I say, those muscle groups that you're going to
use swinging the golf club.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
And I noticed too when I look at the image here.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
Folks may not see it because you've obviously got slacks on,
but you're obviously in a very athletic position. Your knees
are not locked. You're actually almost very similar. I mean
you're not crouched over your upper bodies, not leaning over
like you in a golf swing, but you're in a
very athletic position because you obviously, as that ball rebounds back,
you want to make sure it's not knocking you over,

(52:40):
so your knees are slightly flexed a little bit if
you will, to get in that athletic position. I want
to move to the next slide because again this is
sort of a different position. So let me just advance
that through to the next one and then I'll stop
and then let you explain what you're doing here. So
here's another exercise, the chest on the ball, So let
talk about this one here. What are you doing differently

(53:02):
here and how is this as isolating the same set
of muscles or is this doing something different?

Speaker 8 (53:08):
Pretty much? Yeah, I mean this is a little more progressive.
You know, once you've done that chess slam standing, you
can get into the line position here. On a stability ball,
you got to have a little more control because you
don't want that ball to hit you in the face
as it's coming down. And the ball you're using here,
I mean, obviously there's different types of weighted balls that

(53:29):
you can use. You know, you can start light and
work heavier as you know, you feel the strength starting
to come on. And with this on a stability ball,
anytime you do exercises on a stability ball, you're getting
some added benefits in that, you know, I'm stabilizing myself
on the ball, so you've got to engage the core

(53:51):
to do that. And you can see my hips are
parallel to the floor, so that engages those whole important glutes,
you know, muscles and you know, the king of the
golf swing. So you want to keep those knights and strong.
So this is like a three firm type exercise. You're
working those faster twitch muscle fibers tossing that ball back
and forth, and you're working those glutes, and you're working the.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
Core and and essentially really this is again you refer
to it as a progressive, but a more advanced move,
if you will, for those that are already you know,
in pretty decent shape and they want to, you know,
challenge themselves a little bit more. And I just want
to emphasize too, very quick, as you mentioned about the
different weighted balls and things like that, and I'm talking

(54:34):
about the one actually you're throwing up into the air,
is you want to be careful not to get something
too too heavy because you want to run the risk
of injury. You know, some people, you know, there's some
pretty heavy medicine balls out there, and you know, obviously
maybe some younger, stronger players might be able to go
up a little bit more than some of our senior players.
But you don't want to get one that's too heavy either,
because then you run the risk of maybe potentially injuring

(54:56):
or putting strain on risks and forearms and things like that.

Speaker 8 (54:59):
Correct, Correct, I mean you know they come in four pounds,
six pound, eight pound, ten pounds, So yeah, I would
start with a lighter ball and work your way up
and again. And that's why it's important to work the
strength component first. You know, give yourself a good base
a few weeks of doing strength exercises so that when
you get into these more intense power exercises, you know

(55:21):
your body's prepared for that.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
Yeah, let me advance to the next image. We're going
to talk about another exercise now, this one here, I
apologize for those viewing that we're not seeing the ball.
You've got the ball actually above your head. I can't
show it here, but for some reason this particular image
got cut off or got cropped off somehow. But essentially
you're doing that, So what are you getting ready to

(55:44):
do here? And then we'll go to the next image,
which will I think clearly make it understandable about what
you're doing. But you've got the ball above your head,
same yellow medicine ball that you're using, and the other
images we've seen, What are you getting ready to do here?

Speaker 3 (55:54):
What's this particular exercise?

Speaker 8 (55:56):
So these are lat slams. So basically in a standing
position and again with the knees bent so that you're
not putting too much pressure on the lower back. You
got the ball overhead and basically you're just slamming it
into the floor, catching it on the way up, slamming
it into the floor, catching it on the way up.
And you're doing that again fifteen twenty times or so
to really work those upper bodies, the lats in the

(56:19):
trunk there and again it's a great exercise, another good
power exercise to incorporate into your routine.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Yeah, and here's I just wanted to fast forward. Here.
Here's the image.

Speaker 5 (56:28):
Here.

Speaker 4 (56:29):
You can see that Bob's slamming this down. Obviously you
can see the blur as the ball's going down. So
again you're starting with it above your head with your
arms extended some deflex of course, you don't want them
ramrod straight. And then you're throwing it down and of course,
the ball is going to come back up and you're
going to catch that, bring it up again, and do
the same thing over and again, fifteen, maybe twenty times

(56:52):
again with an appropriate weighted ball for your skill level.

Speaker 8 (56:55):
And you can do it standing. And then an alternative
would be due to do it while you're sitting on
a flat bench and the end of a flat bench.
But when you do it on a flat bench, you
want to alternate side to side, so again you can
kind of be creative when you're doing these speed slash
power exercises. So if you're sitting on a bench, you're

(57:15):
gonna slam it on your left side, catch it, bring
it up over your head, slam it on the right side,
catch it coming overhead. So that again you're going to
engage a little more core while you're working, you know,
the specific exercises in the in the routine, you know.

Speaker 4 (57:31):
And what's interesting about this is you're not involving, you know,
heavy weights. This is a mistake I think a lot
of golfers make as they get into you know, specific
weight training. They're using heavier weights thinking that's going to
build strength and power and things, and actually the opposite
happens because they end up bulking themselves up too much,
the muscles are not getting a good stretch, and they

(57:54):
end up being actually tighter than what they want. They
want more because in golf you want flexibility. You want
to be able to have stretch muscles. You want to
have that flexibility otherwise you're not going to get a
good shoulder turn going back and certainly in the follow
through as well, So that's an issue as well, right
As again, I'm not saying don't do weights in any
sort of exercise routine, but if you're going to get golf,

(58:15):
you know, golf ready, if you will, there's certain exercise
that are gonn be more conducive for a better player, correct, Yeah, I.

Speaker 8 (58:21):
Mean the pre prerequisite for power is flexibility and strength.
So you know, again it's important to emphasize you want
to build a base of strength. You know, do your
stretching as well, and then at some point, you know,
and if you work with a trainer, you know golf,
it is professional. You know, he or she will know

(58:41):
when to progress you into the more intense exercise. But again,
this this especially for you know, all golfers really, but
especially for the older golfer over forty or fifty years old,
that they don't really think about the power phase of
an exercise routine, and should be because, like I say,

(59:02):
you know, we lose muscle mass as we get older.
We're losing about three to eight percent every decade once
you hit the age of thirty, and it just takes
off when you hit fifty.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
I get a whole lot better than sixty either.

Speaker 8 (59:16):
So if you're not doing strength training, you're doing yourself
with this service. And you know it's important for balance,
it's important for power generation.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Yeah as well.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
All right, let's move on to the next one here.
All right, so here's another exercise. I think I know
what this is. A I believe it's called the glute swing.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Is that correct?

Speaker 8 (59:37):
Yeah, the glute swing, kettle ball swing, kettle bell swing.
I'm using a dumbbell here and I'm doing it with
one arm, but you can do it with kettlebells. Most
people will do it with a kettle bell where they're
kind of swinging it between your legs. The important part
of this exercise, and this is again more of a
gluten power exercise. You want the ephesis to be in

(59:58):
the glutes. You want the glutes to fire and to
lift the hips up so that the arms will come
up really without using any effort to raise the arms.
You want that momentum from the hips to raise the
weight up. And it's a great exercise again to kind
of work those faster twitched muscle fibers in the lower body,

(01:00:20):
specifically the glutes. Here I'm doing it one arm again,
that's a little more progressive. You can start with both
hands out of kettlebell, and eventually you can switch over
to a one arm swing. But really good exercise and
this one will definitely get you winded.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
Yeah, and again I noticed again you know you're using
certainly a weight that's giving you some resistance, but you're
not using a fifty pound weight here or something. So
let me just go to the next because I want
people to see what the actual sort of end result
looks like after. So that's your starting position, and here's
essentially what you're trying to do. But you're using as

(01:00:57):
you said, you're using the glutes to fire you up.
You're not just linging your arms up with the weight.
You're actually using the bigger muscles of your glutes and
in that area to bring you up. And then you're
going back down into the previous position. You're doing that again,
you know, maybe not quite fifteen times or for advance maybe,
but to start out with, maybe you might want to

(01:01:17):
scale it back to, you know, six to eight times
until you get kind of used to it, and.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
You've got to make sure you do it correct.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
The main thing I want to emphasize the people too,
and I want to get across is these are a
lot of great exercise. You're obviously a golf certified fitness professional.
You know how how to do these things properly. You
want to make sure that you're really looking and doing
these things correctly, and you want to make sure that
somebody like yourself is there to sort of guide them

(01:01:43):
initially until they learn to do it correctly, because you
can obviously hurt yourself if you're Again, that's why I'm
trying to emphasize about the weights. And I always say
and and I'll say this again tonight, is anybody that
wants to get into these exercises that are obviously tried
and true exercise that will definitely have help your game,
But you want to make sure you consult with your
physician in that first, especially if you're having any issues, uh, physically.

(01:02:06):
You want to make sure that you're safe to go
ahead and do these things and not getting yourself in
a situation where you may injure yourself. So I want
to put that out there. But this is a great one. Again,
you want to fire those glutes. I want to move
on because I know we've got a couple of others here.
I think that I want you.

Speaker 8 (01:02:20):
To go back to this one too. I mean, you
really want minimal effort from the upper body. You really
want to power up that upper that arm or those
arms with the glutes. So it's it's it's like I said,
And that's a good point about being in shape and
not and not having any issues because the power exercises
will definitely tax the system.

Speaker 4 (01:02:42):
Yeah, and here we are. This is uh, this one
here is called a lot uh leap later leap.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
So basically what you're doing is you're you're going to
your pivoting to your again, if you're a right handed golfer,
you're pivoting to your back leg right, if you're right
handed golfer, that's the best way to describe it. And
then I want to I'm going to advance it just
to the other side because I want people to see
what's going to happen here, and then if we need
to come back, that's fine. But so you're you're basically
you're moving to your right side, which would be your

(01:03:13):
your back leg. But again you're still facing, you're not twisting,
you're not turning the upper body, you're staying centered, and
you're just going to that back leg. And then we're
going to move to the next image here, and you're
going to see what Bob does in the next image
and why you caught a leap. Now you're over on
your left side. So what are we doing here and
how is this beneficial to the golf swing.

Speaker 8 (01:03:33):
Well, just like the side step strength exercise that we
talked about a couple of weeks ago, this is kind
of the the power exercise for that. It's a lateral movement.
You're you're leaping from your right foot to your left foot,
back to your right foot left foot again. You're doing
that ten to fifteen sets, back and forth, and you're

(01:03:54):
primarily using that gluteus medius, you know, that hip stabilizer,
that one that's going to start to initiate the downswing.
So this is a real good exercise. But again you know,
you want to build up to this because it's going
to put a lot of pressure on the ankles, the knees,
the hip. But you know, once you do develop that

(01:04:14):
that base and the strength. Again, this is a real
good exercise to kind of work that power move into
the down swing in your golf swing.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
Yeah, and again, now, how often if I was to
you know, put these exercises. I think there was four
or four or five exercise here if I wanted them
to put them in a routine typically, how long should
I spend if I was to piece them all together?
I mean I know they're probably only a couple of
minutes each, but if I was putting together, say fifteen minutes,

(01:04:44):
maybe twenty minutes max. And how often should I be
doing these to really see benefits? Because again this is
where it boils down to people or time restraint. It
don't have a lot of time for you know, full
worker it's anymore. But this is definitely something. So is
this something that you want to do maybe two three
times a week if you can squeeze that in.

Speaker 8 (01:05:03):
Yeah, minimally I would do an upper body and a
lower body, so like the leap and maybe a medicine
ball slam in your workout, and I tended to do
that with golfers at the end of the workout, you know,
do the strength stuff first, then get into the power stuff,
and then follow it up with some stretching at the end.
But yeah, you know, you don't have to go crazy

(01:05:24):
with it. Again, you know, we're talking about kind of
average you know, the average golfer. They will definitely benefit you.
And again, the consistency is really the key, and you
got to do them over a period of time before
you really start to feel the benefit from that. And
you definitely feel the benefit on the golf course and
on your distance specifically, because again I mean your work

(01:05:47):
you're talking about clubhead speed and you're talking about miles
per hour and the fast twitched muscle fibers that are
going to get you there.

Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
Yeah, and again there's no excuse, it doesn't matter what
age you are. Obviously, again you want to consult with
with your physician and you want to make sure that
you're getting connecting with somebody like yourself that's golf certified,
that is going to tailor and customize a plan for
you that's going to help you with your golf game.
I mean there's a lot of great fitness instructors out there,

(01:06:17):
but if they're not familiar with golf and what muscles
and and how the golf swing works and that, you know,
they may move you in a direction that may not
be as beneficial for your golf game. So you want
to definitely reach out to somebody like Bob here. And
I think these are really great exercises because again, really
they can be done. And again for those that maybe
are a little bit more challenged, maybe a little bit older,

(01:06:39):
I'm sure most of these exercises, again you had to progressive,
and you had a sort of a standard, can be
modified somewhat if need be. If you've got to you know,
some of our super seniors that still like to get
out in golf but maybe should be doing some of
this stuff. There's modifications, and again you could help walk
them through through that program at some point if they
if they wanted to work with you. So let's let's

(01:07:01):
do this. Let's give them how they can best reach
out to you. And then I'll give you a chance
to plug your book again and then get you to
give some final thoughts. Give us your final thoughts first
on what we talked about and how we're going to
utilize this to build strength and power if you will,
for this season coming up, and then go ahead and
plug your book.

Speaker 8 (01:07:22):
Well, any type of exercise is going to benefit the golfer.
I mean, you know, but it's in most golfers from
my experience over the years that I've been working with them,
stretching is probably the primary goal that they want to
achieve because every almost every golfer that I put through
an assessment, you know, it comes down to range, emotion, flexibility,

(01:07:45):
that is their number one priority. But incorporating some strength
moves in there again will help in terms of you know,
feeling better out on the golf course, you know, getting
through the round without feeling fatigue, not feeling is sore
the next day. And then incorporating the power exercises, which

(01:08:05):
I think a lot of golfers don't do, but they
really should consider that and take a look at that
and implement those because again, those are the exercises that
are going to work the muscle groups that are you're
going to use while you're swinging the golf club. So
if you can get all three in that would be great.
You know, progress up to the triad and you know,

(01:08:27):
start off easy progress. You don't have to go nuts
and like I said, twenty five minutes three times a
week as all you need.

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
Yeah, and we're still early in the season yet, so
it's you know, you have an opportunity to kind of
ease into it right now. You don't have to go
full you know, full steam right away. Let's work into it.
Let's ease into it for the season. Uh. You know,
a lot of our northeastern golfers northwest, if you will,
they are still trying to thaw out from some of
this you know, cooler weather. You know, you don't want
to be jumping into uh, you know, everything too quickly.

(01:08:56):
You're not maybe quite ready to get out there and
and uh you know hit hit the links quite yet.
So here's a good opportunity to get yourself ready. So
ease into the exercise. But definitely you want to reach
out to somebody like Bob and Bob very quickly if
you want to go ahead and plug your book again
and then let the folks know the best way if
they want to reach out.

Speaker 8 (01:09:13):
It's functional golf Fitness training. It's on the book patch
and you know in my email if they want to
contact me with specific questions. It's Bob at Golfit Carolina
one F and one T g O l f it
Carolina dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Perfect Well.

Speaker 4 (01:09:32):
I want to thank you as always for giving some
great insight into how to get ready for this season,
and my very special golf Fitness guest, Bob Foreman, has
been doing this for many, many years and going to
hopefully continue to do it for many more. But thank
you Bob for joining me tonight, and I know you'll
hang on for just a second. After we clear out,

(01:09:53):
I'm going to take another quick, short commercial break to
hear from one of our sponsors, and when I come back,
I'll be joined by the co founder CEO of ziggit
Elsbeth Hurry.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
Should be here in just a moment. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
All right, welcome back everybody, and my next guest is,
of course, is the co founder and CEO of Ziggot,
Elsbeth Hurry, and here's a little bit more on Elsbeth.
Let me just tell you a little bit about her
and then we'll begin tonight's special featured guest interview. So,
as I mentioned, she is the co founder and CEO
of Ziggot and it's a patent pending mobile app enabled

(01:10:56):
retail platform for easy, convenient, and profitable, self serving controlled
products at Ziggot enabled dispensing stations across golf courses, sports entertainment,
event and other venues. We're going to talk about that
as well as many other things. So please welcome my
very special guest back to the show. She's been on before,
but this is the first time on the new platform. Elsbeth,

(01:11:18):
welcome back to Golf Talk Live.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 5 (01:11:22):
Ted.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
I'm excited to have you on.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
And I know when we talked the last time and
you were telling us about the business. I was extremely
impressed with what you guys do. I mean, this is
just a game changer for the industry. Now, you're really excited,
and it's not just unique to golf. It's something that
you're obviously putting out another as I mentioned, to other
different sporting events and other venues. Now, obviously this is

(01:11:47):
something that's really taking root in golf.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
So for those that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:50):
Maybe aren't familiar with Ziggots, also a little bit about
the origins of Ziggot and the sort of the movement, if.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
You will, of the automated retail.

Speaker 7 (01:12:00):
Sure, yeah, I mean I guess the origins My co
founder John, he's a perpetual ideator. He's always coming in
with patents and observing things that aren't as obvious to
other people. But especially during COVID, he I think we
all saw kind of a rapid acceleration of you know,
more self service, demand, more automation in some of that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
So that definitely.

Speaker 7 (01:12:25):
Happened, and especially in spaces where you know, staffing is limited,
that becomes an even bigger issue. So I think that's
really what kind of brought him to this idea of
a you know, a self service platform that can enable
almost any type of hardware to create automation for controlled

(01:12:46):
items things like alcohol and even pharmaceuticals theoretically, but it
really allows for more secure, seamless transactions in a compliant
way and random places like golf courses. It doesn't need
Wi Fi, so it's very mobile solution since it's app based.

Speaker 4 (01:13:05):
So let's talk a little bit about the technology, the
Ziggot technology and how it actually works, and so walk
us through a scenario if maybe it would be probably
the best way to do it. So if I'm at
the golf course, I'm, you know, playing with my foursome.
What is it I need to do initially to be
able to utilize and to access zig it? How does

(01:13:25):
it am I downloading an app that sort of thing,
walks through the process and then explain how the technology
sort of works, if you will, and what's going to happen.
So just sort of walk through that scenario.

Speaker 7 (01:13:36):
Yeah, the very first time you want to use Ziggot,
you do have to download the app. It's free, It's
on the app store, Google play Store, zig i t
and that first enrollment takes about ninety seconds. And the
reason it takes a little bit longer is that you're
scanning your idea, it's authenticating that it's a valid Federal ID.
You're scanning your face. It creates a face hash that

(01:13:58):
gets stored on your phone, and that's what's used when
you run into a Ziggitt enabled station. As I mentioned,
we're pretty much hardware agnostic. So when you're on a
golf course, let's say, there can be a dispensing station
at whole seven, and then if you're already enrolled, you
just scan the box. It'll pop up a menu of

(01:14:18):
what's in there. You select what you want. Every time
you buy something, if it's alcoholic, it will make you
take a selfie.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
If you're under eighteen, it won't.

Speaker 7 (01:14:26):
It won't even ask you to enroll if you're just
ordering gatorade, but it'll make you take a selfie and
then it'll dispense your products.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
So it takes about thirty seconds to get a drink.

Speaker 4 (01:14:36):
Wow, I mean that's incredible because you know, and I
don't want to dismiss the young cart girls that drive around,
but you know, even they're not that quick. So you know,
by the time this is a great thing. Now and
these are the dispensing stations if you will, they're placed

(01:14:57):
not just in one location, they've out through holes. So
typically what has been sort of the trend from what
you've done so far? I mean, obviously you might have
some when you're first, you know, coming up and they're
there available. Typically what has the golf course is done
from your experience?

Speaker 7 (01:15:13):
Yeah, I mean really one of the biggest advantages of
the system is guest experience. Yes, it drives profitability and things,
but it is guest experience because I don't, no matter
how good you are with golf, you can't be everywhere
once if you're in a beer cart. It's just not possible, right,
And so it's really a synergistic technology to beer carts.

(01:15:33):
So it's in addition to and because of that. The
best places that we've seen so far that tend to
do the best are near restrooms, maybe on the first nine,
in the back nine, on driving ranges if there's no
cart service over there. So it's usually those sorts of
places on course and driving range tend to be where

(01:15:55):
we see the most activity. We also see it a
you know, some people have athletic clubs or something like that,
where again they don't have any sort of service, so
it augments beer Kart and strangely and maybe not so strangely,
we found over time that when we place these, it
actually drives up beer Kart sales as well. So the
added convenience is driving just more overall satisfaction, more free

(01:16:18):
flow of purchase, and it really uplifts beer carts as well.

Speaker 4 (01:16:24):
And I want you to touch on a little bit
too about get how first of how you entered the
golf you know market, if you will, And obviously you've
touched on a little bit at some of the benefits
obviously for.

Speaker 3 (01:16:38):
Golfers, but also for golf courses.

Speaker 4 (01:16:40):
How are they benefiting and how do they able how
are they able to monitor the process. Are they able
to you know, see when things are getting low and
you know that sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
Maybe you could walk through that a little bit too,
if you wouldn't mind.

Speaker 7 (01:16:52):
Yeah, I mean it's really set up as a compliance
aid and efficiency platform, so it's all catered by location,
so it's app based. You can access it through an iPad,
through an iPhone, or through a laptop or a computer
if you're the retailer, but you can set everything up
so that you have real time inventory if you're the retailer,

(01:17:13):
you always know you can set up alert so that
you know your beer cart will get an alert if
if slot seven has gone below a certain amount, you
know you need more ultras.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Or whatever it might be.

Speaker 7 (01:17:24):
So it's very practical, and most of the most of
the hardware that's used hold a large number of items,
so you really don't have to refill it very often
on a golf course. Other things that I think are
really suitable or valuable for the retailers is they can
really customize it. So again a lot of people will
set a limit of how many drinks somebody can get

(01:17:47):
over you know, over the ground. You can also add
in drinks. If you're doing a tournament and you're giving
tons two free drinks as part of that tournament, you know,
you can set it up so that each person that's
registered or signed up for the tournament can get their
tooth free drinks through the machine. So it's very, very customizable,

(01:18:07):
which I think is is important for the retailers. There's
also a lot of actionable data. We do not share
any privacy data. The privacy data stays private. That's why
we're phone based, but we do have de identified demographic data,
so you know, if there's a ladies' tournament coming up,
what are the things that they tend to buy? What

(01:18:29):
do they want to have in those machines. And it's
very easy to swap drinks out based on different events
and things like that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:38):
Talk about if you wouldn't mind too when you know
you've touched on when when you know the I'm sorry,
I'm trying to catch my thought here spending unit. You know,
if a certain area is getting low, obviously they have
the ability to restock or what have you. So that's

(01:18:59):
giving them a lot of valuable information in real time.
You mentioned something and I want you to sort of
explain for those maybe out there they're not as tech savvy.
You mentioned that it doesn't require Wi Fi, so it's
at based, and that how is it communicating If it's
purely at based, it's going over cell phone data?

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
Is that the idea? Then? Essentially what it's doing.

Speaker 7 (01:19:19):
OK, you need about the same amount of cell signal
that you would have to send a text. And so
usually if there's a remote course, we can do a
walk through and measure the cell signal. If the cell
signal isn't very good at that restroom. Do you can
put a booster that will boost for the five feet
around it, which is more than enough, and it does.
That's part of what makes it more flexible since it

(01:19:40):
only needs standard power and really nothing else. It means
that one you can move it from place to place.
Two you can put it in remote places where otherwise
you wouldn't probably be able to have service. And you know,
it's really kind of a it's an add on for
FMB service, but it's also a little bit of a
F and B insurance policy in the sense that you know,

(01:20:01):
you've always got a reliable kind of dispensing partner right
there at whole seven, and the golfers learn to know that,
no matter what, I can get something at.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
Seven or whatever it is. So it kind of adds
that extra extra convenience for people.

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
And I would imagine because of the ease of use
and the way it's set up through through cell systems
is if somebody is let's say on two a whole
two or three, and they're thinking, you know, by the
time I get to whole nine, I'm gonna feel like refreshment,
they can go ahead and actually order that ahead of time.
How foreign advance can they order that? And because I mean,

(01:20:37):
you know obviously you get your timing, and how does
that work? How does that process work? Is waiting for them?

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
What happens?

Speaker 7 (01:20:44):
Yeah, the way it works right now, it's it's venue specific,
but almost all the venues that allow for pre order,
for pre purchase, kind of like Starbucks would, it's same day.
So if you're at hole to you know something is
coming up, you work it out with your your friends
of who wants what, and you order it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
Then it will hold that there.

Speaker 7 (01:21:07):
The main difference is and you buy it ahead of
time and it will make you do a selfie when
you're purchasing it, even from your golf cart. Then when
you show up you scan it, it'll know you're there
for your order, and it'll just make you selfie again.
So there might be a lot of selfies involved, but
they're very very.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Quick, right Who does like taking a selfie?

Speaker 8 (01:21:25):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
Yeah, that's fantastic.

Speaker 4 (01:21:30):
So there's no real timing. I can ordered any time,
same thing with later. So it's not like it has
to be ordered a certain period of time ahead of
time because once the orders put in the system knows
that when I scan it, now it knows I'm ready. Okay,
I'm there now, I've arrived and it's going to go
through the steps.

Speaker 7 (01:21:49):
I mean the dispensing stations that we used on golf courses,
and again you can use anything, but the ones that
we typically use are indoor outdoor rated that can withstand.
I mean, we've got a bunch of time of courses.
It made it through Helene and Milton, so we know
they're durable all but they usually keep the drinks at
around thirty four degrees. It can be set however you want,

(01:22:11):
but if you've pre purchased, it's just going to be there.
It's already purchased, It's already allocated for you, and you
can pick it up anytime you want.

Speaker 4 (01:22:20):
What has been some of the early feedback we're both
from the golf courses and also from golfers. I mean
you get a lot of compliments in that, and typically
what do they appreciate most about some of the features
that they get through Zigot.

Speaker 7 (01:22:34):
Yeah, I think with the golfers it's surprising. But the
ice cold is big, the no tipping is strangely big,
and the just the consistency, you know, I can always
get a drink here if there's a beer cart when
you roll up to seven, then you probably buy from
the beer cart.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
That's fine.

Speaker 7 (01:22:56):
You know, we're not here to get rid of human interaction.
We're here to bug meant it so it can be
used as effectively as a course wants to. So they
like the ease of speed and really the consistency of
knowing there's a reliable experience that they can have when
they want it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
In terms of the.

Speaker 7 (01:23:14):
Courses, I would say the biggest advantages I've seen other
than you know, incremental sales and inventory reduction of shrinkage,
is the you know, some interesting things have come across.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
You know, they've been able to do.

Speaker 7 (01:23:30):
There's a lot of actionable data as I mentioned before,
so you know they might see that they're beer carts
kind of underwater on Mondays. Once you have a certain
number of a certain amount of adoptees of your avid golfers,
they don't seem to care if you don't have beer
carts on Mondays. So you move that cart person maybe
to Saturday, so you can have a little more beer cart.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
Service on the busy days.

Speaker 7 (01:23:51):
So it allows you to kind of think through because
you're not going to staff on a partially rainy day
on a Monday. It doesn't make sense, but there's still
an option for people because the box doesn't care if
it's raining or if it's a slow day.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):
Right, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:24:07):
And with it, like you said, with the data that
you're getting back, they're able to see what their peak
times are and where the times that there's maybe a
little bit slow, so they can adjust their their employee
schedules to monitor adjust accordingly.

Speaker 7 (01:24:20):
So it's actually adjusted for some people, they've adjusted even
their beer cart schedules because they've been able to see
more of the timing of drinks and what's being offered.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
So that's been helpful for them as well.

Speaker 4 (01:24:30):
And this has got to be great for big events too,
especially you know, again, mostly when they've got a corporate
event or or some other you know, club championship going on,
they're probably going to have the carts in full effect.
But this is a great addition to it as well,
because with so many people out in the golf course
at any given time like that, you're going to want

(01:24:52):
to make sure that everybody's being serviced. And you know,
unfortunately they typically only have maybe one or two cart
girls or cart to you know, beverage peak well out
on the golf course and when time and when you've
got one hundred and forty four players in a tournament,
pretty hard. So here's some other options, and so it's
a great sort of a marriage, if you will, for
the golf course. What has been some of the responses

(01:25:13):
from the courses themselves, what's been some of the feedbacks
and what specifically do they like about zigot What has
it done for them that they've said to Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:25:21):
I think it's been I mean I think it's just
provided more consistency, that's what we hear. So it's elevated
guest experience. I mean it sounds maybe a little bit silly,
but it also is giving kind of a more innovative,
tech savvy kind of branding to their F and B,
which is really appealing to some of the you know,
thirty somethings demographic because it's something that they're demanding and

(01:25:43):
they want. So it kind of brings us into this,
you know, this decade and makes it more forward thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
So I think they like that.

Speaker 7 (01:25:53):
They like that it's automated, and they like that there's
less reliance on immediate reliance on staffing. You're not getting
rid of staffing. This augment staffing that you know, that's
the plan is not to get rid of people, it's
to use them most effectively. So I would say that's
probably the biggest feedback we've gotten from courses from management companies,
you know what's interesting, or groups that have more than

(01:26:15):
one course. We're starting to see more portfolio wide intelligence again.
You know a lot of times there's different points of
sales systems. We can patch into those, but it you
know what's happening over here and what's happening over here,
they're able to find out, you know, things that could

(01:26:35):
be actionable from one course for another without necessarily you know,
letting people know how they got that information.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
If that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:26:44):
So it makes perfect sense.

Speaker 6 (01:26:47):
It's helpful.

Speaker 4 (01:26:48):
Are there all also too, you know, potentially advertising opportunities
with zigget where you know, let's say a golf course
is uh, you know, using ziggot, using the the dispensing machines,
and that are their opportunities. And also through the app,
can they integrate for advertising. Maybe they've got corporate maybe

(01:27:09):
it's a big an area that they've got events coming
in and people want to take advantage of that and
and have some sort of marketing or corporate sponsorship opportunities.
Is there is that something that's available through the platform
as well.

Speaker 7 (01:27:23):
Yeah, so right now there's quite a bit of interest
depending on the type of course.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
There's obviously a whole range of courses.

Speaker 7 (01:27:30):
So some of the courses that are more interested in advertising,
we've seen a lot of co marketing that we can
do with local brands, whether those be be you know,
local I pas or some sort of specialty drink, that
sort of thing. So there is opportunities for that, and
we have done that festivals. It's huge for that because

(01:27:51):
it's you know, you can make these glowing boxes even
in the middle of a you know, a field if
you want to, So it's very good for that private
course is they tend to have a little bit different
view on that, so you know, a lot of times
you won't even see that there's a box. It'll be
built into a comfort station. So it really depends. We

(01:28:11):
haven't done in app advertising yet, just because we've been
more focused on the customer experience. I do think there's
an opportunity for that, particularly when you're talking about tournaments again,
because it's just a natural fit. So I do think
that the other thing too that is valuable for other stakeholders.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
The brands and some of those opportunities.

Speaker 7 (01:28:34):
Again, the data that we get we don't share privacy information,
but the data we get is never been available, and
that data can help make their advertising dollars more efficient.
It can help their targeting be more efficient, and some
of that can be done in a way where any
sort of cost can be offset for retailers. So it's
a very low cost solution for retailers because of that.

Speaker 4 (01:29:00):
A little bit if you wouldn't mind a little bit
more with the experience for the golfers. So in addition
to be able to being able to obviously order a
drink or what have you, and obviously as they you know,
they process that order, is the app itself generating a receipt?
Is that going to an email or how is that done?

(01:29:21):
Because obviously you're not you know you're not. It's not
a typical point of sale where they can get a
paper receipt. So are they getting some sort of a
confirmation of that order and where does that go as
a text or is it either or they have the office.

Speaker 7 (01:29:35):
It's an app based platform. So when you go in
the app. If you want to see your order history,
you can. If you want that email to yourself, you can.
Each course might have a different retailer pretty much every
course does, right, So we're not the retailer of anything.
We're the platform. But if you are at one course
in Tampa and you have a you know something on

(01:29:56):
this day, and then another course in Tampa on another day,
you can just scroll through find the order receipt that
you want, have it emailed or or whatever you want
to do. So it's all available there kind of at
your fingertips if they need that.

Speaker 4 (01:30:10):
So yeah, and and and that's great because again people
can monitor, you know, their own personal expenses. Now, the
course is obviously get for for obvious reasons. Do get
a certain amount of the information. They don't get obviously
the more confidential information, but they do for purposes of
seeing what products are moving and whatnot.

Speaker 7 (01:30:30):
You know exactly what's sold and when, and they know
it's user one, two, three, four. If it's a member
based course and members decide to use their member pay,
then they're giving permission for them to charge member pay.
That would make it clear that John Smith just bought
this drink, right, So they would have that access to.

Speaker 4 (01:30:51):
Be integrated with Yeah, so it can be integrated with
member pay then that's that's great. I mean, that's fantastic.
So we touched on the very beginning. I mentioned when
I was, you know, doing the introduction that obviously this
is going to be not just in golf courses but
other sporting events. And you know, so what are some
of the other industries that Zigot will apply short and

(01:31:14):
longer term? What are some of the other things that
I'm currently in besides golf, And what is your sort
of vision as you move forward.

Speaker 7 (01:31:20):
Yeah, we're actively expanding into resorts and festivals, outdoor events,
and we have already some arenas and music venues and
things like that. But really we're focused as a strategy,
at least initially because we're new and we're small, but
we're focused on these places that might have you know,

(01:31:43):
traditional staffing models aren't really practical, right, or you have
location issues like think about an amphitheater where it's just
not that easy to drop you know, a whole new
concession area at the end of that field or what
it might be, right, So we're really focused on that.
Since we're a very low capital we can layer on

(01:32:06):
almost any type of capital infrastructure. We can go almost anywhere.
So we're focused on those things, pop up venues and
the like. But we also the IP also has applications
and this is you know, we're looking at separate things
for this, but there is applications for RIX and other
things in the future.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
We're really focused right.

Speaker 7 (01:32:26):
Now on primarily golf and then we again as I mentioned, airports, resort,
some of these other things which are nice compliments.

Speaker 4 (01:32:34):
Yeah, that sounds great, So let's just touch a little
bit if you wouldn't mind on So we understand that
when they're placing the order, it's communicating with the dispensing unit,
and that what goes on because you're not providing or
are you providing the dispensing unit itself. Is that something
that's coming through a supplier that you're working with that's

(01:32:57):
partnered with you guys and others. Is a special machine
that's required or is it something that can be adapted
onto an existing dispensing.

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
Yeah, it's both.

Speaker 7 (01:33:07):
I guess we're not a hardware manufacturer or stiller. This
is not our core business. That being said, we do
see ourselves as you know, service plus in everything, right,
so if you have hardware, we have a controller about
the size of a cell phone that patches into the
MDB board, which basically takes over the brain of whatever

(01:33:29):
hardware are you using, right, and it makes it so
that it directly is controlled by the phone, the smartphone,
So we will help source that. We are working with
a variety of hardware providers though, and we're largely outsourcing
a lot of that, so regional based hardware suppliers, so

(01:33:49):
that if anything were to happen, these things are pretty robust,
but if anything.

Speaker 2 (01:33:52):
Needs to be fixed that way, it's easy to fix it.

Speaker 7 (01:33:55):
That sort of thing. So we are all about really
we've spent the last year working in golf and it's
really starting to accelerate and we are really stepping into
a lot more targeted partnerships and collaborations because we're not
going to be everything for everybody. There's already people out there,
so we're doing the same thing on the hardware side,

(01:34:17):
finding the best partners to be able to provide things. However,
to your question before, if you already have some sort
of dispensing style, vending style hardware, we can work.

Speaker 2 (01:34:29):
With that too.

Speaker 4 (01:34:30):
Yeah, I see, I like that That's what really makes
it interesting is because if somebody has that hardware already,
you have the ability to integrate. Especially I mean obviously,
you know, if they're dealing with machinery that's twenty years old,
I mean, that's obviously a whole different thing. But you know,
most of the courses have kept things pretty up to date.
So if you've got an existing golf course that has hardware,

(01:34:53):
and you come along and say, hey, we can you know,
automate this in a better way free, that's going to
bring you more revenue and so on and so forth.
I like the fact that you are able to very
easily integrate with what they exist, so they don't have
to go out and buy all new machinery necessarily and
go that route. And that's a big that's a big
foot in the door for you to be able to
come along and say that.

Speaker 7 (01:35:14):
Yeah, it's very intentional because we want to be the
flexible system.

Speaker 2 (01:35:19):
The other thing too, since we are a compliance aid
as well.

Speaker 7 (01:35:22):
It's it's very important based off of all the research
we've done to be at based because again, you wouldn't
want any of your privacy information to be scored or
transmitted through hardware.

Speaker 2 (01:35:35):
It's too easy to too easy to hack.

Speaker 7 (01:35:37):
So if it's going through your phone, I guess if
your phone got hacked and they could figure out the
AI algorithms we have, maybe they could hack yours, but
they couldn't hack your buddy. So I mean it's it's
a much better system for where privacy is going. And
we want to be forward thinking as it relates to
keeping up with privacy and where we think it's going
to go.

Speaker 4 (01:35:56):
Yeah, and I think there's more and more safeguards coming
out now anyways than you know that was ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:36:01):
I mean, the technology is just.

Speaker 4 (01:36:05):
Is what you're doing, has it already And you'll understand
when I asked this question, I have to frame it
a certain way. But is there a certain element of
AI already adopted in what you're doing or is it
something that you see that's going to be integrated in
the future moving forward?

Speaker 7 (01:36:22):
Yeah, I mean it's it's definitely an AI system. When
you're looking at authenticating IDs and things, it's all about
data sets. You know, the greater the data set, the
better the value and the better the.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
Accuracy.

Speaker 7 (01:36:39):
Right, So we've been very intentional. We do not by
design we're bringing everything together and we're making it a
seamless service and our IP is all around that. But
we are not the person that authenticates the ID and
we are not the person that does the biometrics, because
we've partnered instead with who we believe are the best

(01:37:00):
partners there that have the best data sets, that have
the best history. So, for instance, for authentication, our authenticator
does over two and a half million authentications of federal
ideas every day, and our biometric authenticator does over two
hundred and fifty million biometric authentications today. So with those
data sets, their AI is so far superior to a

(01:37:24):
startup or a new group just because they've got they're
ahead of it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
They catch things before other people can.

Speaker 7 (01:37:31):
And the effectiveness of that is incredible in terms of
I mean, it far surpasses any capability that a human
would have in terms of verifying an ID. And we
do catch fake id's all the time, especially on golf courses.
It's been interesting for us, and I think for retailers
that's positive. One we catch them, that's great. It's not

(01:37:54):
like we confiscate it because you can roll at your
desk at home. But what ends up happening, especially when
it's on core. Somebody gets rejected because of X, Y
or Z, and they can still buy a Coker Gatory
and they almost always do. Maybe it's to say face,
but they're still buying a drink, and that's completely okay.
There's nothing wrong with buying all the gatorades you.

Speaker 4 (01:38:13):
Want, no exactly, so the golf course is still benefiting
from that use. If you were going to, you know,
give some advice to golf courses or country clubs or
and as you talked about getting into more resorts as
it pertains to they get, what would what would that be?
What would you say to them? What would be your

(01:38:33):
conversation as you as you approach I guess you're pitch
if you will, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (01:38:37):
Guess, yeah, I think I guess.

Speaker 7 (01:38:40):
My point is, don't wait for the future of FMB
to hit you across the face, because you know, we
see a future where there'll be more autonomy, they'll be
more self service delivery. I mean, eventually, if you look
at the rest of where things are going, I mean
there could be robots delivering things. System is capable of

(01:39:01):
helping bring all those into the fold when you're ready,
because our patents can work with drones can work with whatever.
So it's kind of, you know, you have an opportunity
here to kind of bring yourself forward for the next
generation of golfers and you could be ahead of the curve.
I think it helps your brand, it helps your guest experience,
and a whole bunch of other things. So there's little

(01:39:22):
to no cost to get started because again it's not
an expensive upgrade on your system, and it can deliver
immediate results, measurable results. And so I guess my encouragement is,
if you want to stick your toe in, then stick
your toe in with one station. If you want to
go with three stations that's a typical for an eighteen

(01:39:42):
whole course, then go with that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
But yeah, I guess my.

Speaker 7 (01:39:46):
Advice would be there's really no reason to wait, and
there's really no risk to starting.

Speaker 4 (01:39:51):
How do you set up if you're going to a
brand new facility that doesn't have ZIGT yet it is
not using your platform typically, what is the process? How
long does it take from from walking in the door
and saying here, we've got this, we want you to
try it before you're able to integrate into what they
currently have or you know, get things up and running.

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
How quickly. Can you turn it around for them?

Speaker 7 (01:40:14):
Yeah, I mean it's it's really quite fast. If the
hardware is already available.

Speaker 3 (01:40:18):
Sure, which probab we do have it.

Speaker 7 (01:40:20):
Yeah, If the hardware is already available, then you know,
we simply need to know what drinks and get the
system set up.

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
We can do that from a distance.

Speaker 7 (01:40:29):
If there's a member pay, we need to set up
an interface there and again all that happens before we
even go to the course, but then on the day
of we usually like to be there for a day
and a half if we're setting up. It doesn't take
that long to set it up, but it's usually nice
to set it up there is you know, we work
with each course ahead of time to figure out what

(01:40:49):
sort of marketing or adoption programs they want to use.

Speaker 2 (01:40:52):
It really depends on the type of course.

Speaker 7 (01:40:53):
Like it's a membership only course, that's really different than
somebody that has like vacationers. So what's going to be
best for them? What tools can we bring to help
them start that adoption. So we'll set up the hardware
that first day, make sure that their staff understands how
to use it, give them logins for their function. You know,
there's a different you can set up functions for people

(01:41:16):
that are overseeing the whole system or somebody that's just
stocking inventory, et cetera. And then we usually stick around
for another half day just to you know, if our
team can. They want a golf that's always big, sure,
and then they also want to kind of tock it
up and make sure that they can get that day
of golfers kind of underway and get them used to it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:37):
So let's to keep it just simple.

Speaker 4 (01:41:39):
I'm just going to give you a scenario, and i
want to see how this scenario would play out. So
once you do the initial setup, and let's say there
were you know, doesn't matter one to three machines, Let's
say they decide to put on a facility, and let's
say each machine has up to a ten drink capacity.
Now they're going to get real time data as things

(01:42:01):
progress along. You've set all that up for them initially,
but moving forward, if they want to make adjustments, Let's
say two of the drinks are just not big sellers
and it's not worth it for them, caring they've got
something else, they'd go on easily make the modifications themselves,
or they need to get back to you to have

(01:42:22):
that done.

Speaker 6 (01:42:22):
How does that?

Speaker 7 (01:42:23):
They can absolutely set it up themselves. It's not difficult. However,
what we generally set up products for people because it
takes us five minutes, and it's just why shouldn't we
you know, this has meant to be seamless for them, right,
So we'll set up any of their product offerings. If
they want to add another one, we'll throw it in there.
The one thing that they do is they need to
empty out the slot and put in the other drink,

(01:42:45):
right because they're the one managing the inventory as the
liquor seller, right.

Speaker 2 (01:42:51):
So but yeah, we'll.

Speaker 7 (01:42:52):
Do We believe in making it as seamless as possible
for them. So there's certain things we have to have
from them, you know, we have to know what they want.
We have to know, you know, how they want it
to be set up. But we like to come in
and do kind of everything for them so that they
can just turn it on and forget about it. We've
automated hours, you know, so it can turn itself on

(01:43:16):
and off depending on what they want. They can always
change that, but it's very simple. They can have sales
reports sent them every night, every week, every month, those
can be customized. We do dashboards on a monthly basis.
We do most golf courses. We do strongly request their
round data by day and their golf cart sales by

(01:43:38):
day because it gives us much more again actionable data
for them that they can decide how they want to use.
You know, what are the trends and what do they
want to do to maximize their efficiency and their sales.

Speaker 4 (01:43:49):
And that's obviously done again real time. You know, that's
something that gets uploaded through the dashboard or what have you.
So you're ghitting that fairly quickly. Now once you've done
the initials set up in that you're able to if
if there are any issues with the with the platform
or the app or what have you. And I'm not
talking about individually, but with the system itself, you're actually

(01:44:10):
able to i know there's an old term but dial
in as it were, wherever you are, so you're able
to actually get access through the back end, if you will,
of their system to see if there are glitches or
there's things that maybe weren't done correctly or has to
be modified. You're able to do that in real time
as well. So there's really very low risk of downtime.
It's not like in the old days where if you
had an mission you had to wait for a technician

(01:44:31):
to come or a program to come.

Speaker 3 (01:44:33):
You're able to do it in real time, right.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:44:35):
Out of all the boxes that we have deployed, there's
there's data that we can get directly from the boxes
on its physical health. But if there is anything that
were to happen, we do work with contractors that are
local in that area. I mean getting on the machine.
You know, maybe just a standard vending machine repairment can

(01:44:55):
fix the issue. If anything goes wrong, it's going to
be you know, a compressor something like that. And these
things tend to have. The machines we've been using tend
to have a seven to ten year life, but honestly
they last longer than that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
We've had one service.

Speaker 7 (01:45:09):
Call, so, I mean, and that was because you know,
some compressor was making a really loud noise.

Speaker 2 (01:45:15):
So they're they're kind of tanks.

Speaker 7 (01:45:17):
And when we first started out, we thought that the
hardware should be more fun and interactive, and this is
something that we can do. You know, if you want
cool interactive screens and things like this. What we found
out very quickly because we started an arenas was that
people they don't want that. Yeah, you know, they're there
for the fun, they're there to golf. They just want
something fast and effective that isn't going to break And

(01:45:39):
so we put our AI into the platform and there's no.

Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
AI in the machines.

Speaker 7 (01:45:43):
They're dumb, and that's because that could cause opportunities for
breakage and we just don't need that. So that's kind
of the approach that we've used.

Speaker 4 (01:45:52):
Yeah, you want, you know, we want to make it
as seamless as possible, and you want to be able
to have it again so that they're not dealing with
and I'm talking about the course or the facility having
to deal with a lot of issues, and their main
concern is how much you know, sales are they going
to get out of this, and how easily is it
for their patrons to be their customers not to be

(01:46:13):
able to access what they need to access. So it's
it's really you know, number one, it has to be seamless,
but also it has to be a quick turnaround because
if people have to wait or they're dealing with issues
and things like that all the time, then it's not
a pleasurable experience, So it sounds like you guys have
Obviously there's a lot of technology and behind on the
back end of this, a lot of thought has gone
into it. And now are you I know, you have

(01:46:36):
golf courses all over the place that you're into now,
but are you typically in certain areas right now in
the United States? Are you expanding outside of the US market?
Where where is it currently right now? And where you
look where you look?

Speaker 7 (01:46:49):
Yeah, I mean what's been interesting for us is once
we start with one course in one area, it tends.

Speaker 2 (01:46:54):
To spread right like you get a little micro area.

Speaker 7 (01:46:58):
So we started in tam and we've got you know,
six almost seven courses in that greater Tampa area now,
so that was kind of our first.

Speaker 2 (01:47:09):
Hub we're moving into right now.

Speaker 7 (01:47:14):
Like as we speak, we are active in Kentucky, Missouri, Colorado,
and rapidly expanding to the east coast too, So Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania,
and New Jersey are on deck. So those are kind
of where we're at right now. We've only got there's

(01:47:36):
probably three states where we're still working with regulators to
make sure that you know, they understand the technology and
that sort of thing. But after we get to that point,
then obviously we're open to expansion. We are actively working
on California right now too, as far as some implementations,
those will probably happen late summer. So outside of the US,

(01:47:57):
you know, as it relates to golf, we haven't seen
a big demand in golf in Europe unless it's a course.
It has a lot of tourists to be honest, because
they just don't drink as much while they're golfing. But
down we are having some discussions down in the Caribbean
and Mexico. There are some great opportunities for some resorts
down there where this would be a great fit. So

(01:48:19):
we have not done those yet, but we are soon.
In Canada, we're just finishing up with the Ministry of Finance,
that's their person of regulatory and then after that we'll
start expanding in Canada as well.

Speaker 4 (01:48:33):
Yeah I'm by the way, I'm Canadian, so I know
exactly what you have to deal with.

Speaker 3 (01:48:37):
Yeah, up there, but it's a process.

Speaker 7 (01:48:39):
But I mean, I think you know, the support we've
gotten and their collaboration has been excellent, so I think
it's not a if.

Speaker 2 (01:48:47):
It's just a when you know, you.

Speaker 4 (01:48:48):
Just have to go through the Yeah, you have to
go through all the red pape and all that stuff
in that.

Speaker 3 (01:48:52):
So no, that's fantastic.

Speaker 4 (01:48:53):
So for those that are maybe interested in learning more
from the courses perspective and just anybody in generally interesting,
is there a website they can go to and learn
a little bit more about ziggot uh what they need
to do?

Speaker 7 (01:49:05):
Yeah, the easiest way is, uh ziggit dot app. So
dot app that's our primary you know, web interface info
at ziggit dot app is always available if you want
to ask any questions at all, and we'll put you
in touch with the right person to answer the types
of questions.

Speaker 2 (01:49:23):
That you have.

Speaker 3 (01:49:25):
And as far as.

Speaker 4 (01:49:29):
Availability for the app, you said, it's available through Google Play. Uh,
and also assuming for iPhone advice as well. So it's
in both uh both uh Android and obviously iPhone that's available.

Speaker 7 (01:49:42):
Yeah, absolutely, and Google Pay, Apple pay. I mean pretty
much all those options are in there too.

Speaker 3 (01:49:48):
Perfect. Well, let's als, thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (01:49:51):
You know, I always learned something new from my guests,
and and uh, you know, I enjoyed our conversation the
first time he came on the show, and I learned
obviously a little bit more this time. And it's it's
great to see that you guys are expanding and moving
into even more markets. And I'm really happy that you're
moving into Canada too.

Speaker 3 (01:50:06):
And excited.

Speaker 7 (01:50:07):
The momentum is strong and and and I think especially
with some of the management companies, we're starting to see
the data pull through where they can start to see
the value of kind of some of the insights we
can provide, which I think is going to be the
future so well.

Speaker 4 (01:50:24):
And you know, we only have golf about five and
a half six months in Canada, but we've got a
lot of hockey up there and get into some of
those big venues.

Speaker 2 (01:50:30):
Not hockey Arenasus.

Speaker 7 (01:50:33):
We started at the American Airline Center with the Stars, and honestly,
the hockey fans love us.

Speaker 3 (01:50:38):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:50:39):
They want to get in and get out while the
puck is not on the ice, you know, because they
don't they can't mess around. So they'll come out and
get a nice cold one. Come out and get a
nice cold one. It's been a great hockey is great
for us.

Speaker 2 (01:50:50):
So great hockey.

Speaker 4 (01:50:52):
Yeah, you'll do very well up in Canada, and that
you might actually even do better than the golf And
in the hockey arenas. But Els, but thank you very
much for coming back gone again. You're always welcome, come
back when you guys got some new and exciting things
to share, and for sharing it with the audience. I'm
gonna get you to hang tight for just a second
as I get ready to wrap up here, I just
want to thank everybody for tuning in tonight, and special

(01:51:14):
thanks to all of my guests, the guys on the
Coaches Corner panel, John Hughes and Jim Endicott, thank you
very much for always bringing your best. And also to
my good friend, golf fitness professional Bob Foreman for helping
us learn about how to build power in your swing
this season as you get ready to get out and
tackle the golf course. And of course, my very special
featured guest tonight, Elsbeth Hurry, the CEO and founder co

(01:51:38):
founder of Ziggot. And you can go to ziggot dot
app is how you can find out more information and
also info as well. But Els, but thank you very
very much and I appreciate you joining me tonight on
Golf Talk Live.

Speaker 3 (01:51:50):
It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:51:51):
Thanks. It's been so nice to connect face to face too.

Speaker 4 (01:51:54):
Yeah, exactly a little different this time, but so but
thank you, and I will see everybody next week. Everybody
get out and watch the Masters tournament. There's gonna be
a lot of fun this weekend and I'm looking forward
to seeing who's going to be the champion at the
Masters this weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:52:08):
But thank you very much, great.

Speaker 1 (01:52:15):
Thanks for joining us. We hope you enjoyed this week's
broadcast of Golf Talk Live. We'd like to thank this
week's Coach's Corner Panel and a special thank you to
tonight's guest. Remember to join Ted every Thursday from six
to eight pm Central on Golf Talk Live, and be
sure to follow Ted on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. If

(01:52:35):
you're interested in being a guest on Golf Talk Live,
send Ted an email at Ted dot golf Talklive at
gmail dot com. This has been a production of the
Igolf Sports Network.

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Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 6 | April 10th, 2025

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 6 | April 10th, 2025