Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 15 | June 26th, 2025 - Golf Talk Live

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
The following broadcast is brought to you by the I
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
Golf Talk Live is sponsored by the I Golf Sports
Network and Golf Tips Magazine.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Here's Andrew to tell you more about our sponsors. I
Golf Sports is a live stream broadcast and media production
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Speaker 3 (00:42):
Welcome to Golf Talk Live with your host Ted oto Rico.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
Join Ted each week.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
As he speaks with some of the best in golf.
This week's special guest will join us a bit later.
But first up is another great discussion on Coach's Corner,
So let's introduce tonight's Coaches Corner Panel.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Good evening, everybody, and welcome to Season thirteen of Golf
Talk Live. I'm your host, tedot Rico. We've got a
great show for you tonight. We're going to start things
off here in just a moment with another great discussion
on the Coach's Corner Panel, and of course I've got
two great guys joining me, a couple of good friends,
John Decker and Clint Right, and I'll tell you about
both of them and just a moment, and then later
we'll be our travel segment starting off again with my

(01:27):
good friend and co host, travel expert Robert Kaufman, and
alongside him joining is our special travel guest, Troy Mills,
the head golf professional from the Fairmont Jasper Park Lodge
Golf Club. He'll be joining us as our special travel
guest tonight, and then later on our featured guest on
the show is Barney Adams, the CEO of Breakthrough Golf Technology.

(01:47):
He's going to be joining me a little bit later
on the broadcast, so hope you stick around for that.
Just remember, if you want to catch the broadcast, you
can go to the I Golf Sports YouTube channel, or
you can go to Spotify and just search Golf Talk
Live and you can see it there as well. If
you don't have the ability or you don't have time
to watch the video version, it's also available in audio
and you can go to speaker dot com or basically

(02:07):
wherever you listen to podcasts, you can check that out.
And you can also go on to our website, Golf
Tips mag that's golf tipsmag dot com, and you can
also catch the podcast there as well, so lots a
great place to tune in and listen to the podcast.
But we're gonna get started here tonight. Let me introduce
the guys on the panel and we'll get into tonight's
Coaches Corner discussion.

Speaker 5 (02:27):
First up, of course, is Clint Right.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
He's a thirty plus year member of the PGA and
partner at TGM Golf. TGM, of course, is a big
proponent of the R three approach, which is designed to
help golfers of all levels become better players, and Clint
has been considered by many to be among one of
the best covering the short game and certainly one of
the favorites here on Coaches Corner. Also rounding up the

(02:50):
panel is another good friend and favorite here on Coaches
Corner is John Decker. He's the director of instruction at
the Medallion Club in Columbus, Ohio. He's a senior contributing
editor and a top twenty five instructor with Golf Tips Magazine.
Twenty fifteen, he was the Southern Ohio Teacher of the
Year and he's the author of two books, Golf Is
My Life, Glorifying God through the Game and Fairways to

(03:11):
Having One Shot at a Time, which coincidentally is the
name of his podcast that he hosts every week. So
you have to check out and he'll give you all
the information a little bit later on. And he's also
available for public speaking upon requests, so he'll give you
all the details for that too when we wrap things
up here. But guys, welcome to Coach's Corner.

Speaker 6 (03:28):
You're go ahead to be here. Ted.

Speaker 7 (03:31):
Thank you for having us Ted.

Speaker 5 (03:33):
I appreciate it, guys, as always.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
All right, So I'm gonna lead us into this discussion
because I think it's an interesting one.

Speaker 5 (03:41):
Excuse me. We're going to talk about.

Speaker 4 (03:44):
Golf instruction in general and the differences from golf instruction
today as opposed to versus thirty years ago. So some
golf professionals say that golf instruction has shifted largely from
what some might consider an opinion based and rely on
feel to a more data driven and technology supported approach

(04:06):
over the last thirty years. And I think there's a
certain amount of truth. And I'm actually going to be
doing a post on Golf tipsmag dot Com this weekend
on this very topic. So this is where I'm pulling
a lot of this information from us the article I'm
going to be posting up on our website. So here's
some of the differences. And I'm going to start, if
you don't mind, John, I'm going to go to you first,
just to get things started.

Speaker 5 (04:27):
So here's some of the key differences.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
I think there has been now a more emphasis on
data and technology. I'll give you just a little bit
of then and then also now, just to get things started,
and then I'll get your thoughts. So, then, meaning back
roughly thirty years ago or before, instruction certainly relied heavily
on visual observation and subjective analysis. Teachers might use video sparingly,

(04:52):
but without sophisticated data analysis tools. Nowadays, modern golf technology
is heavily influenced by technicalology like launch monitors, swing analysis software,
motion sensors and so forth, and even now AI. So
this provides obviously the instructors with a lot more data.
So I want to get your thoughts first off, do
you think that this is an accurate statement that comparing

(05:16):
the two that it's become a more data driven and
technology based instruction today and what are some of the
pros and the cons based on that that you see
from based on your own experiences.

Speaker 8 (05:28):
Well, first of all, Ted, the assessment you made is correct.
I do believe that you know with AI and with
all this technology that it's overwhelming. The pros, I guess
some of the positives is that you can get the data,
So you can get the numbers, and I look at
any data as a tool. It's a measurable way to

(05:50):
look at someone and say, okay, on you know, on
June twenty sixth, this is where your clubhead speed is,
or this is where your launch anglers or whatever it
is that you're looking at, and then a month later
you can compare it. The problem is is for the
average person out there, it is overwhelming if you give
them too much of that data. And so I in

(06:13):
fact did a seminar last year for the Southern Ohio PGA,
and I wanted to I talked to the people of
the of the section and I said, I really want
to do a seminar that I want to call it
teaching without Technology, and I want to teach young apprentices
how to look at ballflight, look at divot patterns, and

(06:35):
learn to teach that way. They already know all the
numbers with track Man and all that stuff, and they're
they're using it solely.

Speaker 7 (06:43):
That's the way they teach. Every single shot. They want
to give the student numbers.

Speaker 8 (06:47):
And I said, you know, it's kind of like when
I go to a If I were to go to
a trainer and I was going to lose weight, and
let's say I went to the trainer and I said
I want to lose twenty five pounds. I you know,
the train would probably measure me and they put me
on the scale and they say, okay, you weigh X
amount of pounds and now we're here's the program that
we're going to do to lose those twenty five pounds.

(07:08):
They wouldn't have me do ten push ups and then
put me back on the scale to see if I've
lost any weight. So I think when you overdo it
with the data, I think that is a huge negative.
It's a red flag when I look at instructors, and
I think that if you're out there and you're looking
for instructors, you want to go to someone that has

(07:29):
the technology and uses it. But it needs to be
done in small sample sizes. In my opinion, if you're
looking to get better, because I've always said the most
important number in golf is your score.

Speaker 7 (07:42):
That's the most important number.

Speaker 8 (07:43):
I don't care how far you hit it, I don't
care what your spend rate is. I care about your
score and that's what matters to me the most.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
Yeah, that's a great point, and Clinton, I want to
get you to chime in on this as well. You
know you've many times Coaches Corner have talked about really
from from your standpoint, I think from most coaches and
golf professionals over the years that really you want to
teach people how to become better players because it right.

(08:14):
And I think, as John pointed out, I think this
technology is great. I know we've talked about some of
the different technologies not in past Coaches Corner, But what
do you think do you think that that maybe it's
good to have it as a tool if you will
to be able to use it. But not relying so
heavily as John pointed out, that we're getting away from

(08:38):
sort of the interpersonal relationships that are developed from between
coach and their players. So give me your thoughts as
opposed to because we've all been you know we've all
been around for at least thirty or more years.

Speaker 6 (08:50):
Thirty years. Thirty years is not far enough. Fact, I
thought about going back.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
Yeah, I thought about going back further, but I thought
thirty years would put it right about a good number.

Speaker 6 (09:01):
But no, you didn't find sure when you.

Speaker 5 (09:04):
Look at where it was then and where it is now.

Speaker 9 (09:06):
Very The most simplest thing I can say is amen
to everything.

Speaker 6 (09:10):
John just got to say it.

Speaker 9 (09:11):
I really can't say it a whole lot better than
how you expressed it, because you know I do. I
did use the track mant a lot and other things
that I do. And it's amazing to me that people
will come and ask what should the numbers be. They've
got this idea in their head that there's some magical

(09:32):
spin rate or club head speed or angle of attack,
this magical thing that they need to obtain, and John
hit it quite well. The data needs to be used
to determine what you do. What happens when your ball flight,
you know, is what you're looking to have happened. In
my opinion, I want the data that says, okay, this

(09:55):
is really a good result. What did that swing feel
like to you? I want a person to be able
to feel their golf swing. They're not going to go
out and be able to repeat those numbers on the
golf course. Okay, they can't get the feedback. The feedback
they're going to get is what their body felt going through.
And so therefore, if I can use the data to

(10:15):
help them and to identify what the feel of their
swing is to be when it's acceptable results on the
ball flight, then they can maybe repeat that, because you
can't repeat.

Speaker 6 (10:28):
Something you're not aware of.

Speaker 9 (10:30):
So I try to use the technology when I'm giving
lessons now, which is not as much as I used to.
But it's one of those things. Okay, I can identify
using it, John, and I and you probably some of
the older guys can identify it without the technology because
we know what the ball flight laws are, and we
know what divid patterns look like, we know what the

(10:52):
trajectory of the balls look like.

Speaker 6 (10:54):
That's how we were taught, you know.

Speaker 9 (10:56):
I go back to where the technology we had was
a sequence camera. You know, that was the best thing
you had going and then we got to be big
time and got a video.

Speaker 10 (11:05):
You know.

Speaker 9 (11:05):
So those are the things that I could amen to
what John said, But in reality, they need to use
the data to determine the feel of their swing. When
the results are acceptable, that way they can maybe try
to repeat the field, not the numbers.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
You know, I look at it this way. Is I
think that the technology. I mean, obviously it's in every industry.
Technology is moving faster, and especially you know with AI,
it's moving at such a pace now in every industry,
and you know, golf is no exception. I guess my
only real concern is that if that is the only

(11:40):
thing that you're using to teach. In other words, if
you're heavily into technology and that's all you're teaching and
you're not learning and understanding the basic fundamentals, it's kind
of like, you know, I know this is a very
simplistic term, but it's kind of like in school. You know,
I can remember back in earlier grades where you know,
we didn't have calculators. You know, we were not allowed

(12:01):
to use calculators. Now, I mean it's standard equipment and
now they don't even have that. They just pop it
in their computer and you know, everything's done. So you know,
it's a great tool to have, but if you're not
learning how to add and subtract and do all these
other things. Then you run into a situation where you're
not really understanding the golf swing per se. You're just

(12:24):
sort of basing it off the numbers. And I mean
I've seen I've seen this firsthand where you know, coaches
will be looking down at a monitor and not even
paying attention to their student on the range and or
in the simulator or what have you. And you know,
it's good to get those numbers, but you need to
be interacting with your student as well. So I just
wanted to, you know, touch on that a little bit,

(12:45):
and you guys again gave some great answers, and I
think you're right on.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
I think there's a balance. You know, we've talked about that.

Speaker 10 (12:50):
Clint.

Speaker 5 (12:51):
I'm gonna start off with you, so take a deep breath.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
I'm gonna come back at you with this one here
and there certainly has been a focus here in recent years,
and I'm gonna give you the the plus and the
minuses for both focus on biomechanics and the science. So
back then, traditionally, methods often focused on replicating the swings
of more successful players, meaning, uh, you know, a lot

(13:13):
of a lot of coaches maybe would look at you know,
Jack Nicholas or they would, you know, whatever player was
was prominent at that time and say, let's let's look
at some of the techniques and some of the things
that he or she are doing, and let's see if
we can replicate that. That tended to be a little
bit more of a focus at that time. Now you're
seeing the mechanics plays a much larger role analyzing movement

(13:36):
patterns to improve performance and reduce obviously injury to risk,
and it obviously under gives you an understanding of how
different body parts contribute to the swing. So there's a
much deeper dive on how the golf swing actually works
with the biomechanics and the science. What are the pluses
and minuses here do you think? I mean, again, it's

(13:57):
good to have that that knowledge, is it really for
the average golfer?

Speaker 5 (14:02):
Is it something that they really need to know?

Speaker 4 (14:04):
And is the coach spending a lot of time learning
about this stuff when really it may not be all
that necessary. I mean, it's good to have an understanding
of how the swing works, and you should know that
if you're teaching, But do we really need to get
into the biomechanics and the sciences behind the golf swing.
Some people might enjoy that, but for the average golf pro,
is that something.

Speaker 5 (14:24):
They really need to have?

Speaker 6 (14:26):
Oh? Absolutely.

Speaker 9 (14:28):
I look at it not to understand the biomechanics of
a golf swing. I look at more of a person
to understand how their body works. You know, you can
look and for years and years, as far back as
you want to go, and there's some basic fundamentals amongst
golf swings. But then if you look at the movement,

(14:49):
the players are playing based on what their body can achieve,
not what mine can or yours or John's anybody else's.
That's why they all look different. I mean, if all
our bodies work the same way, we'd look like robots
out there. It would look like iron Byron doing the
same thing every time. So I try to get a
person to understand their body lines, how their elbows work,

(15:10):
how their knees work, you know, the one that we come.

Speaker 6 (15:12):
To a lot.

Speaker 9 (15:13):
I see it every day and John probably does too.
And you have as well, where the players are not
releasing their right side through the ball, and so therefore
their knee and their ankle work like jacks. It just
lifts them right up off the ball, there's nothing they
can do about it, so where their body works. So
the more understanding I have and can relate to the
student of how the angles, if your body works, it

(15:35):
makes their GOP swing simpler, not more difficult, not complicated.
So if you understand the body lines, and I think
that's why you.

Speaker 6 (15:43):
See these younger players today.

Speaker 9 (15:45):
They have figured out how to hit it further with
their body, not their equipment. I mean, the equipment's slinging
it obviously, but they have figured out how to be
in better condition and shape their you know, strong athletes,
and so before they understand their body mechanics, not necessarily,
and they also try to relate the swing mechanics of

(16:08):
what makes the ball go, the physics of it into
how their body works. So yeah, I think there's a
I try my best. It has to be a simplistic
approach because I don't really you know that that big
on kinesiology as well, But I understand basically how it works.
And so if we can relate that to our students,
and to be honest with if a good player can

(16:28):
kind of get around it, the average player needs to
use all the simplistic moves that they can in order
to not have to practice hit balls all to day.
They want to be able to hit an acceptable shot
the simplest way, not the hardest way. So the better
they understand how their body lines work, I think, the
more you can work inside of that with the mechanics
that we all know that are fundamental to making good

(16:50):
contact with a golf ball.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
Fair point, I think I would. I would agree with
what you said. I think it's I guess, John, what
I'm getting at is, I think obviously what Clint just
said makes a lot of sense in in in the
from the perspectives as coaches, we certainly need to understand
how our student's body performs and works, and and because
they're all different, of course, I guess my concern, much

(17:16):
like we talked about with the equipment, is if they're
doing too deep of a dive into the sciences, into
the biomechanics, that it then becomes not so much a
natural approach and it's becoming more of a I feel,
maybe more rigid approach.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
What do you what do you think?

Speaker 4 (17:33):
What do you think on what Clint was saying, and
what do you think and in general from the biomechanics perspective,
do you agree with that or or do you see
it differently.

Speaker 8 (17:42):
The majority of people that I work with, unless it's
someone that's playing collegiately or wanting to play on the
PGA Tour, the majority of people I work with have
no clue how the body's supposed to work in biomechanics
in the golf swing. And they're they're there for my
knowledge of how to hold the club and how to

(18:02):
how you know what club to use in this situation,
and how to hit a bunker shot. They're not coming
to me asking a lot of biomechanical information. Now I
give them a lot of biomechanical information, but I do
it in a very simple way.

Speaker 7 (18:17):
And I look at the way the human body's built.

Speaker 8 (18:19):
And you have two ball and socket joints in your hips,
and so you really play golf on one leg. You
set up and both You've got your weight evenly distributed.
Let's say you're on a level lie and when you
go back, you turn into that back hip, so you're
on one leg and then when you come through you
turn into that left hip, and there's a little transition,
but you're basically going into one hip and going to

(18:42):
the other hip and learning how to turn and get
your body to turn around the right hip and turn
around the left hip. Obviously, is when I talk about biomechanics.
That's one that I talk a lot about. I also
talk about how the risks to move in the golf
swing a wrist or a hinge. So if if I'm

(19:03):
I'm if I'm holding the club, my wrist is moving
back and forth. I do not roll my wrist. And
when I hear people and that's old school. When I
was a kid, I was taught to, you know, roll
your wrist. Well, you're not rolling your wrist, You're rolling
your forearms. It's physically impossible. If I hold your forearms,
you know, you're you can't you can't roll them. So

(19:24):
you're you're not rolling your hands, You're rolling your forearms
in those situations. And that was involving a lot of manipulation.
That was back when the golf balls were balata and
the guys were spinning it more. And I mean I
was taught to play a big slinging hook and that's
you know a lot of knee drive and all that stuff.

Speaker 7 (19:41):
Terrible for your body.

Speaker 8 (19:42):
I mean, it's terrible to slide your knees and finish
in a reverse sea and roll your wrist. You can
do it when you're fourteen, but when you're fifty eight,
good luck. And so the players now are they have
golf swings and these guys, you know, there was no
Champions Tour when I was a kid.

Speaker 7 (20:02):
I talked to Jerry Pate.

Speaker 8 (20:04):
I did a clinic with him years ago, and he
told me that he said, when I was thirty five,
I was physically done my body. I'd hit so many
golf balls and I had such a reverse sea, and
he said I had so many shoulder issues, and so
he said, I went to.

Speaker 7 (20:22):
Jimmy ballor and he said that changed my that he goes.

Speaker 8 (20:25):
He changed me to more of using my body and
using more rotation and using more of my hips. Because
your hips are weight bearing joints. They are designed to
support weight. Your knees are not weight bearing joints. Your
knees are not designed it. So if you're sliding your
knees like I used to do and I still do
when I get under pressure, those old instincts that I learned.

(20:46):
You know, they always say the things that you learn
between eight and twelve, you'll have the rest of your life. Unfortunately,
I learned a knee drive when I was you know,
about ten years of age. So these are things that
I tried to explain to my students, and I do
it in a way that's very simple, and a lot
of times it's relating to you know, if you're gonna
throw a baseball, how would you throw a ball? Or

(21:07):
I'm always asking them what sport they play, and then
I try to relate it to what they're doing. And
and there's some like lacrosse. When they tell me lacrosse,
I go, oh my gosh, I know I'm in for
a long lesson because I'm gonna have to try to
basically to re teach them everything they've learned. You know,
lacrosse a golf. Don't mix hockey is another one. You know,
when they're I played a lot of hockey, that's you know,

(21:30):
I said, we're not trying to trap it. And you know,
I've never played hockey before my life, but ted you
would probably relate to that. But but you know exactly so,
you know, it's always trying to relate things that to
what they do naturally when they were a kid, whether
it was throwing a rock or throwing a baseball or
throwing a football. I try to try to use biomechanics

(21:53):
from that standpoint, and I think that's much more relatable
for the average person.

Speaker 4 (21:58):
Yeah, I agree as well with what you said, and
I think that, you know, again, it's something that we
have to have an understanding. I just think that we
have to be careful we don't get too far in
the weeds about it, because it becomes to a point
where where, again, just as we've pointed out many times
with the technology, if you get too far deep in
the technology, then it gets to a point where they're

(22:20):
not learning the game. They're just learning how to manipulate
the numbers and get the numbers that they want, and
you know, then they're not really having fun anymore. So
we have to be careful. So there's a good balance.
So it's interesting to see the differences of you know,
what we were learning, you know, thirty years ago to
compared to you know, and this next one, John, I'm
gonna jump back to you here to start things off.

(22:42):
And you know, Clint talked about this as well, uh,
sort of moving away from that one size fits all method.
You know, back then, a lot of instructors subscribe to
maybe specific methods. You know, some of the best guys
out there, you know, Ledbetter, mcclaim and all that head
their their different methods or certain swing models that they
identified with because they thought it was you know, how

(23:05):
we how we should be teaching.

Speaker 5 (23:07):
And and nowadays, you know, whether there's.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
Still some schools of thought, Uh, there's a greater emphasis
on individual instruction, which you know, I think we're looking
at the individual bodies now based on the data that
we're getting and personal needs. So the goals today is
to really optimize the golfer's existing swing rather than forcing
them into a rigid mold you know of a tour
pro or something like that. So has that been a

(23:31):
good thing? Do you think moving away from those those
sort of, as you put it, tried and true methods
where you know, we had the X factor with with McLain,
we had the A swing with Ledbetter, and and you know,
Harmon had I can't remember off the top of my head,
but he had a method as well. And not saying
that they were bad, but everybody sort of was getting
pigeonholed into the same thing. Is it a good thing

(23:53):
that we've transitioned into a more let's get away from
the one size fits all to let's see what what
works best for you.

Speaker 8 (24:00):
Yeah, I think what I've seen is, you know, a
lot of over I've been in teaching the game for
a little over thirty years now, so I'm I'm you know,
I've seen the trends and over the years, and you know,
I think everyone has, Every teacher out there has some
sort of system. What always amazes me is when these

(24:22):
guys come up and they try to market it in
a way that's you know, well, I've reinvented the will,
and they come up with this, you know, you know
it used to be the stack of tilt and all
these different different ways of teaching, which I believe in
just basic, good sound fundamentals. And I think, to me,
you know, it starts with the grip. And I will

(24:44):
look at the first thing I look at with any player,
I don't care whether they are a tour player or
whether they are a beginner, is their grip. Because I
don't even great players grip will get off at times.
And Nicholas would always start with his grip every year,
and he was the number one player in the world
and one more majors than anyone else. And if he's
got to work on his grip. Then you know I

(25:04):
need to work on my grip too. You know, ball position,
all those things to me. If I get someone's grip,
their ball position, distance from the ball, knee fla, if
I get weight distribution, there's about fifteen or twenty things
in their setup that I look at. If I get
all those things right, the student is going to make
a pretty good golf swing. If you don't have those
things right, then the compensation start coming in, and then

(25:27):
you better be a really good athlete. You better practice
a lot, and you better have great hand eye coordination,
and you better, oh, by the way, be a really
good hutter, or you're not going to reach your highest potential.
So I don't believe that there is one system out
there that's best. I think the best teachers in the world.
And I got this from watching Phil Rodgers teach many lessons.

Speaker 7 (25:50):
I watched him teach Raymond Floyd.

Speaker 8 (25:52):
I watched him teach Paul Azinger, and the one thing
that he did is he worked with what that player had.
He didn't try to change Paul Azinger's grip. All he
did was focused on his release. He kept saying, I
want you to go knuckles to the sky, knuckles to
the sky. He has a very strong grip, so he
would work on, you know, making sure that those that
risk didn't roll over and that all wasn't going left

(26:13):
because a singer, guys with strong grips.

Speaker 7 (26:16):
Want to play a cut.

Speaker 8 (26:17):
And so when you watch that and you say that's
the way you would teach him. But then you watch
someone like Raymond Floyd and you watch the way you
teach Raymond Floyd. Those are two completely opposite golf swings.
But what he did was he would take what they
had and he would work with it. And I think
that's what really great teachers have the ability to do.
They can find the root calls and it all goes

(26:38):
back to the setup. I think Clint would agree with that.
It's not something that's going on at the top of
your swing, you know. I hear people talk about dropping
it in the slot and all these things. These are
just terms that are ways to describe the golf swing.
It all goes back to those tour fundamentals. If you
get those right, I think the average listerer out there
is going to play at their best game uh that

(27:00):
they're capable of doing.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
Yeah, it's a great some great points, you know, and
I like the fact you threw Nicholas in there because
he you know, he said that every year when he
came out to get ready for a new season, he
worked on the fundamentals. That was the number one thing
he worked before he got out and because he you know,
he was gearing up for the excuse me, the Masters
was the you know, main first event that he was Yeah,
you know, had his eyes on and he knew that.

(27:24):
You know, back when they weren't playing all year long
like they are now, you know, they would have sort
of an off season. Well they don't really have that now,
but back then, you know, he might not play as
much golf in that off season because he was spending
more time with his family and and business dealings and things.
So you know that was big for him. Clinton, what
your thoughts. I'm sure you agree with a lot of

(27:45):
what John said, But anything you want to add to
to that.

Speaker 6 (27:48):
Well, yeah, I agree with John.

Speaker 9 (27:49):
You know, I've always had the attitude and and I
think John's absolutely correct is that you don't want to
compromise for something you can control. We can control our setup.
We're sitting there, We've got all the time in the world.
There's no time clocks or anything. You can get that right.
If you don't get it right, He's absolutely correct. It's
a guaranteed force, a compromise somewhere you got to recover.

(28:13):
So the setup fundamentals are basic and you have to
pay attention to those things. Now, the other side of
it is the science of hitting a god ball has
never changed. It's the same science the balls round. The
club base is reasonably flat, so those fundamental things from
a physics standpoint to make the ball go forward in
the direction you wanted to, those things haven't changed, so

(28:36):
you have to keep those in mind. But on the
other hand, we're all unique, is what we spoke about earlier.
Everybody's swing looks different. That's the uniqueness about the game.
We can all achieve the science portion the physics of
it to move the ball forward, but have a dramatically
different look. So the uniqueness is what I think John

(28:58):
was speaking of, is that you know, they found the
uniqueness in every player and help them take advantage of
their uniqueness to maintain the fundamentals and the physics of
moving the ball forward. So I have never ever thought
that they was a method. I've always considered it an approach.

(29:19):
You know, what's my approach going to be with this student?
You know, what are they doing that we can take
advantage of and the things that we can't. So I
look at as an approach. There's a uniqueness involved. And I
hesitate to say this.

Speaker 7 (29:33):
I'm going to you.

Speaker 9 (29:34):
If you talk to in your interview and instructors and
they have a method, run you know, just just go
somewhere else because they're going to try to teach you
how they think everybody should play.

Speaker 6 (29:48):
Okay, So I.

Speaker 9 (29:50):
Like the idea of the approach for each individual student.
We have basic fundamentals we have to agree on, but
then we're going to find your uniqueness and how you
can achieve those things. That's the whole purpose of a
golf lesson, not to jam me down in a little
cookie cutter, but to figure out how how you can
how you can do it.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
Yeah, I'm I'm always I agree one hundred percent with
both of you. I mean, I think that you know,
because you have to look at each player individually and
work with you know what they have. And I've seen
too many times where somebody will come in and you know,
to an instructor and they'll change everything. And some things

(30:32):
may be working fine for that person, it may not
be some of the things they're looking at. And I've
seen them come in and literally dissect the person's golf
swing make every change possible to the point where now
the person's completely uncomfortable. They don't feel natural in what
they're doing, and they become frustrated because they're not able
to grasp you know, there's too many changes, number one.

(30:53):
And I'm always skeptical, you know, John pointed out, you know,
when people are teaching two methods, and you on that
as well. I always found it very interesting, and I'm
not going to name names, but you know, there's there's
some top instructors where I've I've seen them come out
with a method or what have you, and then about
six months a year later, they're they're pushing something else

(31:14):
and it's you know, a lot of the same stuff,
but it's wrapped under a different packaging.

Speaker 6 (31:18):
It.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Let's be honest, it's marketing, and it's done really the
industry a disservice in a lot of ways. It's made
them a lot of money, but at the same time,
it's done the industry a disservice because what it does
now is it it because of the popularity of some
of them. You know, it's put golf instruction in some

(31:39):
ways back on its heels for a while because now
it's like, well, how do you do this, or do
you teach this method or what have you? And so
it caused people to really have to either conform or
have to do something completely different. So it was very
It was a juggling act for a few years. But
I think now it's now the students is coming and saying,
you know, I really want to learn to play.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
I want to do this.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
I don't want to you know, I don't be taught
like my my wife over here or my son is
I you know, I've got my own game. People are
becoming more more more avvy about their game and that
has helped a lot to you know, push it into
sort of not this one size fits all. Yeah, I'm
gonna get you on this one here and then ready
to wrap up with these this final one here. And

(32:23):
I think one of the things that that has come
out of the differences in the in the decades is
an increased accessibility to information. Back then, we were somewhat
limited to golf instruction, meaning that you know, thirty or
forty years ago, let's say, uh, you know, a lot
of the big clubs and that had uh, you know,
golf instructors available. You didn't have as many or as

(32:45):
much accessibility to golf instruction unless you were a member
of a club or you knew somebody that that could relate. Now,
there's so many online platforms, uh, and AI of course
is coming out, and apps and things that you can
get a lot of the information, some.

Speaker 5 (33:00):
Good, some g bad.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
So there is Would you agree that we have a
lot more accessibility to golf instruction in today's market than
what we did And I'm not just talking about the
numbers of instructors or things like that, but I'm just
saying the accessibility for the student is much greater now
with what's available out there than maybe what there was
thirty years ago.

Speaker 9 (33:20):
What do you think, Oh, there's no question about that.
I mean, we got all the information and knowledge in
the world in your pocket and a phone. I mean,
so you can reach out and pretty much decide how
you want to learn and you'll find it. You just
have to look at a little bit from the standpoint
of me as an instruction probably John. It's kind of
a cool thing that we also have the ability for

(33:43):
a student we're working with the video tape themselves in
between sessions to where we don't fall back. We can
get some information to them on a daily basis if
they want it, and video lessons and stuff. You know,
early on people were a little negative towards the video lessons,
but be honest with you, once you start learning how
to use it, it's a wonderful tool to help the
student progress over a period of time. You know, it

(34:05):
used to be you'd see a student maybe every two weeks.
Now with the technology and information got, you can touch
them every day if you if they want to, if
they're gonna work at their game that hard. And so no,
absolutely have accessibility. I mean YouTube, I mean you can
find any little gimmick you want to and who you
want to follow.

Speaker 6 (34:24):
You know, you got to get you there.

Speaker 9 (34:25):
There's a I don't want to call it groupies, but
everybody's got their own little thing that they follow, you know,
So it's uh, it's okay. I mean, I think it's
wonderful the more accessible that we have to our sport
and to be able to learn how to maybe play
it well or to understand it is a bonus, There's
no question about it.

Speaker 6 (34:43):
So I think that's a positive thing.

Speaker 9 (34:45):
Just like some of these teachers now in the studios
and the simulators and and they're they're out there. I
actually saw a gentleman today that had been to one
of those facilities and I had seen them a year earlier,
and and I tell him that you need to go
back and pay them some more money because they did
a marvelous job with this person bringing them along over

(35:06):
about a year versus a couple of weeks to be
a much better player. And you can see him smile,
and he was having a good time.

Speaker 6 (35:12):
So absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 5 (35:15):
Yeah, I think I yeah, I agree with that.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
I mean, obviously you have to be careful and you
have to be a conscientious consumer that you're not you know,
gobbling up everything that's out there, and that you're you're staying,
you know, whether it's with an instructor or whatnot. Because
you know, we've talked about this before, John. The other
thing that I want to sort of spin off of
this is I mentioned it briefly a couple of times
throughout the night, but AI, you know, this is one

(35:41):
thing that some instructors are fearing out there that eventually
it's it's you know, Alexi is going to be doing
the golf lesson and you know, uh Decker right perto
Rico are going to be left, you know, out in
the dust because they're able to access and and pull
out so much information. Is that a concern do you think,

(36:03):
not just with golf, but I mean obviously with a
lot of industries, but particularly with golf. Do you see
that maybe as a potential.

Speaker 5 (36:10):
Negative.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
I mean, it's good to have the technology and have
access to more information, but at the same time, are
we going to be putting ourselves out of a job?

Speaker 8 (36:20):
Well, I think by the time it gets to the
point where it could put me out of a job,
I'll be fully retired.

Speaker 7 (36:26):
But it would you know.

Speaker 8 (36:28):
For the younger instructors that are coming up, who are
just now coming maybe into the PGA of America, it's
definitely something that they're going to have to watch.

Speaker 7 (36:39):
I I don't I.

Speaker 8 (36:42):
Believe the you know, as long as human beings are
playing this game. If it turns into robots playing the game,
then that's different. But as long as human beings are
playing the game, you need to have that person, because
that can that interaction so that when someone hits a
poor shot or gets upset, you can you can say

(37:02):
you can encourage them, you can support them.

Speaker 7 (37:05):
You know, we're human beings. I mean, I don't.

Speaker 8 (37:08):
I hope the day never comes where a robot or
some computer is giving people lessons. And if that's the case,
I don't I don't know if I would want to
play the game.

Speaker 7 (37:20):
I just think that golf.

Speaker 8 (37:22):
Is it is a Ultimately, golf is your greatest opponent
is not the golf course.

Speaker 7 (37:31):
It's yourself.

Speaker 8 (37:31):
It's being able to control your emotions, being able to
make decisions, being a you know, and you know, how
is a computer going to know that if I hit
a shot and as I hit the shot, the wind
picked up five miles an hour in my face and
my ball came up short.

Speaker 7 (37:49):
You know, the how is the computer going to know that?
I just don't think that.

Speaker 8 (37:53):
I hope it doesn't ever turn to that, and it might,
it might, and and with technology, But to me, then
what would be the fun of playing the game. It
is a game of human beings out there on the
course playing. And like when when I hear people say
to me, well, I play video games, and you know
video golf.

Speaker 7 (38:10):
Is that count.

Speaker 8 (38:11):
I was like, no, it doesn't count, because that's not
going to translate, you know, when they come to take
their first lesson.

Speaker 7 (38:17):
You know, I've had that comment from kids.

Speaker 8 (38:19):
I'll get that all the time, and I'll say, no,
what you're getting ready to experience has nothing to do
with what the Tiger Woods game that you were playing
on your television. So I pray that that never happens.
I think technology is is beneficial. Like Clint said, you
can pull your phone out. I call it the Google Net.
You can get on the Google Net and you can

(38:40):
find out anything you need to know about how to
repair something around the house, or how to fix this
or that. But golf is a very unique game. There's
no perfection. Bowling, you have three hundred. You can't do
that in golf.

Speaker 7 (38:54):
It's it's just.

Speaker 8 (38:55):
Unique, and it's it's it needs to be taught by
human beings. It needs to be played by human beings.
That's my feeling on it.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
I couldn't agree more. You know, I don't want to
see the fun come out of it. I think just
in summary, you know, modern golf instruction is you know,
I would say, it's certainly characterized by its reliance on
technology and data analysis and a more scientific understanding of
the swing, leading to more personalized and effective coaching maybe

(39:24):
compared to you know, thirty years ago. Some feel that way.
I think that human connection, I think is important and
I think that, you know, there's definitely some pros and
cons to both, and I think if we can find
a way to sort of marry the two together, I
think people will will be in a better state.

Speaker 5 (39:42):
But I agree with you.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
I think I think if we get too much down
that rabbit hole where technology now comes in and sort
of takes over, you know, it might be able to
do things faster, it might be able to do things,
and there's certainly some benefits here. But at the same time,
you know, we have to have that interaction, I think otherwise.

Speaker 8 (39:59):
Can I can I say one last thing with that
with with AI, if it were to get to the
it would be based on the person who put the
information in. Yep, that's what's scary about it. It's whoever's
putting the information in. That's what they're gonna say, you know,
So it's this person's now we're talking. You talk about
a methodology now that would be a methodology.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
Yeah, and it may not be an individual. It could
be an organization exactly. You know, an organization could come
up and say, okay, we want to format or we
want to make everybody the same standard on it, like
a standardization. And the problem with that is again it's
it's you know, the reason you have so many different
golf professionals. Even though there might be some core similarities
between everybody, we all do things a little bit differently

(40:42):
and that's what makes us each unique. And if there's
sort of a standard, run of the mill package out
there that everybody's teaching to sort of again, it becomes
one method or or one idea, and uh, that's not
always a good thing and history has proven that. So
some great points, but interesting discussion, something we haven't had
to hear on the show before getting into a little

(41:03):
bit of some of the areas we haven't really talked
too much about. But you guys did a great job
as always, and Clint, if you want to let the
folks know how they can reach you, and then John
will let me do that.

Speaker 5 (41:12):
And if there's anything either one of you want.

Speaker 9 (41:14):
To put absolutely, Yeah, this discussion has been quite unique
in itself, so that is good. They always reached out
to me at Clint got zero zero one at Yahoo
dot com. I'll respond back to them as quickly as possible.
And John's good to seeing me again and a great
show to thank you.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
Appreciate it and John, go ahead, Clint.

Speaker 7 (41:35):
I enjoyed it. As always.

Speaker 8 (41:36):
I always learned something every time I'm on with you
and Ted, thanks for having me on the show. For
those of you who are interested in reaching out to me,
you can go to my website deckergolf dot com. I've
got information there about instruction, so if you're looking for instruction,
you can find it there. Also, I have my books
are on there as well, if you're interested in that.

Speaker 7 (41:56):
In my Bible study, I'm excited now.

Speaker 8 (41:58):
I've got sixteen churches and groups that are participating in
my Bible study as well as my video library. I'm
also available on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn. And as
you mentioned earlier, I now have a show. It's called
Fairways to Heaven one or the Fairways to Having show

(42:18):
on Bowl Braef TV and it's on nine o'clock nine
am on Wednesday mornings. But if you don't, if you can't,
you know, listen to it or watch it. You can
go to YouTube my channel there is John Decker Golf Instruction.
If you go there, all of my shows are on there.
Eighteen I think seventeen shows now, so they're on there.

(42:40):
So but Ted, thanks again for having us on and
look forward to being on again next month.

Speaker 5 (42:46):
I appreciate it always bringing your best.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
I appreciate you guys, and thank you for taking time
out of your busy days to join me here in
the Coaches Corner panel here on Golf Talk Live. We're
gonna take a quick commercial break and when I come back,
I'll be joined by tonight's special travel guests. Welcome back, everybody,

(43:46):
and it's time now once again to get into our
travel segment. And I'm joined, of course by my good friend,
co host and travel expert Robert Kaufman and alongside, of course,
Troy Mills, the head golf professional at Fairmont Jasper Park
Lodge Golf Club. And I'm going to tell you a
little bit about each of them, and then I'm going
to hand the mic over to my good friend Roberts
and he's got some great questions for Troy tonight. So Robert,

(44:09):
of course is an award winning photographer, golf and travel writer,
golf media consultant. He's worked with a number of great
publications such as Trouon Golf and Travel Magazine, PJ Magazine
and of course, Golf Tips Magazine, along with a host
of others. If you want to see more of his
great work, you can visit his website Pitcherparfect dot com.

(44:30):
As I mentioned our special travel guest Tonight, is the
head golf professional at the iconic Fairmount Jasper part Lodge
Golf Club. It's one of Stanley Thomas's most celebrated designs
and a fixture on Canada's Top Course Rankings PG Canada.
Member since two thousand and six and a graduate of
Humber College's Professional Golf Management Program, Troy brings more than

(44:50):
thirty years of experience to the game, including roles at
Saint George's, Angus Glenn and Bayview golf clubs in Ontario. So, guys,
Robert and Troy, welcome to Golf Talk Live.

Speaker 11 (45:02):
Great, Thank you Ted Troy.

Speaker 12 (45:04):
Great to meet you, pleasure to meet you, gentlemen, and
thank you very much for having me on this evenings here.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
Absolutely, I didn't know I was having a fellow Canadian,
Uh joining me on the show.

Speaker 5 (45:15):
Here we may we may have what's.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
That I'm the middle man, Yeah, you're the middle land
and much sandwich between two Canadians and uh but uh
so I'm gonna I'm gonna hand it over as I said,
I'm gonna hand it over to Robert. Robert's got some
some questions for you to talk about, uh what you
do and all that good stuff and in our travel segment,
and then he'll invite me back on.

Speaker 5 (45:38):
So I'm going to disappear. Troy again.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Welcome and thanks for joining us, and I'll talk to
you in a few moments.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
All right, appreciate it well, Troy. Great, this is it's
a pretty exciting time right now. I would imagine for
you guys considering where you were last year.

Speaker 12 (45:58):
And words camping in to describe how late we are
to you know, finally reopen here on Tuesday next week,
Canada Day. Yeah, it's going to be very special for
you know, so many different people that have worked feverishly
since we got back out here in September, So everyone
in our local community and province of Lilburna across the
world so super excited to get things going. Eight am

(46:21):
on Canada day eight am.

Speaker 11 (46:23):
That first tea times already booked.

Speaker 12 (46:24):
Huh. Absolutely, we have you know, a little surprise set
up for the day. I'm definitely going to honor some
of the the incredible people that's uh, you know, really
did everything in their powers to to save this historic
golf course. So we're going to commemorate them and congratulate them,
a special moment for some of our firefighters within the
community and and really looking forward to that absolutely.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, and I want to get into that with you
a little bit more, but you know, let's let's first
talk just to kind of put that put this in
the back right off the gate. Let's talk about you know,
the wildfires obviously, all all the destruction and I mean,
what if you what's been done in the last year,
you know that as far as the resilience survival, bringing
the course back to where it is today and where

(47:10):
it was prior to the wildfires.

Speaker 12 (47:13):
Oh, absolutely, And it all started in you know, first
first part of September is when we had the ability
to get back on property and Glenn Griffiths, our heads superintendent,
led a team of about nine or ten colleagues here
that just dedicated the rest of the season until the
ground frozen, the snow hit the ground to save everything

(47:35):
we could, and that was slowly kind of mowing grass
down to a level that would be typical for going
into the winter months and hibernation. Not so much of
cleanup back in September, but more of just making sure
we could save as much as we did, and without
their efforts, they wouldn't have been able to do what
they've done. Winter came came out of the winter quite nicely,

(47:57):
and since about mid March it has been you know,
full recovery and revitalization and getting things ready, everything from
you know, tree removal. We have a particular amount of
areas that we're able to, you know, take down some
trees that are deemed you know, particularly in the Golfer's

(48:17):
way not being safe, so really great work there and
preparing that and and just everything in preparation replacing whole signs.
We had to replace a few greens that were damaged,
you know, by the wildfire. They were set in in
early May, so they're in phenomenal shape as we get
to open here in July. First we brought out an

(48:39):
incredible and well known golf architect, mister and Andrew, who is
a huge Stanley Thompson expert on all of his work
and and really kind of set us on a path
for success for the next hundred years. We had to
reshape a few new holes in Green Sites after the
fire and they just came out spectacular. I can't wait

(49:01):
to showcase to all the golfers that are going to
come play this summer. But you know, I could talk
for a few hours and all the work that was
getting done Robert out here to get where we are today,
and I'm just super proud of, you know, our director
of Golf, Talon Sweeney, who you know spearheaded all the projects,
work closely with Glenn Griffiths and Jacob Melfeast and their team,

(49:23):
and we're phenomenal te de Green and I'm so looking
forward to getting golfers out here. It is going to
have a different landscape for what those were used to
over the last thirty forty to fifty years. But you know,
as we're celebrating our centennial celebrations on July seventeenth, it's
almost like a throwback to you know, how Stanley Thompson

(49:44):
designed back in nineteen twenty three when he first started
work and opened it in nineteen twenty five. So it's
going to be a very special, very unique season, but
it's going to be so rewarding. Welcoming back golfers and
local members of the community to enjoy something they love
and and bringing back a sense of normalcy makes sense.

Speaker 11 (50:04):
Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you brought up Stanley Thompson. I
wanted to touch on that.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Obviously, he's an important figure in the Canada golf you know, obviously,
I mean, do you have any estimate how many courses
he's done throughout Canada.

Speaker 12 (50:19):
I want to say, we're pushing, you know, thirty or forty,
could be more. I know that he has five inside
the top ten. I've been privileged the last twenty years
of my life to work at two of his finest masterpieces,
you know, obviously the Jasper Park Lodge here in the
last sixteen years, and spend five seasons at Saint George's
Golfing country Club and at Tooboco West End of Toronto.

(50:40):
And I've been spoiled. His golf courses are just phenomenal
To think how he was designing these over one hundred
years ago and they're still holding the test of time.
Is just a true testament to you know, Stanley's work
and his vision and how he'd go in you know
with a notepad and pen and or pencil, i should say,

(51:01):
and come out a couple days later with a world
renowned golf course set to open. So very very lucky
that we have him as our architect, and he's just phenomenal.
I feel that, you know, others like Alistair Mackenzie when
he was out here in nineteen twenty nine, I you know,
I feel he took a little bit away of what
Stanley did here and applied it to some of his

(51:22):
golf courses. So we're very special that to have him
as a Canadian and one of our greatest golf architects
in history. Yeah.

Speaker 11 (51:32):
No, it is quite.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Unimaginable when you think about what these guys had to
deal with in terms of landscape and routing a golf
course back in the twenties thirties, and you know, without
all the techniological resources that exist today, it's mind boggling. Yeah,
you know, and you know, working in an environment like that,

(51:56):
you know, obviously it's a short season, so there isn't
much time really.

Speaker 12 (51:59):
Goats in, horses and the plows behind them a few
hundred men we trained. They trained in the soil from
Stony Plain, Alberta, so three hours east of us. But again,
you look at the technology, you say, Robert, that they
were using one hundred years ago, just using the natural
contours of the land. Stanley really did a phenomenal job,

(52:22):
but mirroring every green site with a different mountain vista.
You know, it may be the same mountain and few holes,
but it's a different view. He took a lot of
pride in that, took a lot of pride in his
buckering around those green sites and kind of mimicking some
of the mountain peaks. So again, the more we talk
about it, the more I'm just amazed that this man
was doing this one hundred years ago. It's just incredible

(52:44):
that a lot of these golf courses are again five
inside the top ten. Our sister property, the Band Springs,
another phenomenal facility down there. So yeah, just incredible.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah, And I was actually up there last September. My
wife had a road trip and we made it to
benefit and we took awesome well, we took the extra
drive to Jasper because she had never been I'd been
there before, but still, you know, you can't you cannot
do that Parkfield Highway right if you're up in that area.

Speaker 12 (53:17):
It's the greatest highway in the world. It's it's almost
like I.

Speaker 11 (53:21):
Could do that every day of the week.

Speaker 12 (53:22):
It's just gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
But we did get a you know, a hands on
look at the devastation up there, and it was it
was pretty disheartening. But I can't wait to come back
and see you guys in full bloom.

Speaker 11 (53:35):
So let's let's get into the community.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
A little bit. You know what what kind of engagement
has been and what you know, local support from the businesses,
and uh, how it's affected the Jasper economy.

Speaker 12 (53:50):
It's uh, you know, it's affected everyone in different ways.
To be very honest, you know, I also have the privilege, Robert,
of being the current president of the Chamber of Commerce
here in Jasper, And you know, some businesses lost everything,
lost the ability to to be open. Other businesses we're
lucky and came away unscathed. But Jasper is very resilient.

(54:14):
And the reason why we're resilient is those members of
the community. You know, we will be back bigger, we'll
be back stronger. It has been some tough trying times
for a lot of them, you know, not going to
hide behind that. And we've been very lucky to have
incredible support from you know, federal provincial governments, uh, the
Canadian Red Cross to to really support and be there.

(54:36):
You know, I know on behalf of our chamber, the
board members are executive directors. We're you know, we're doing
everything in our powers with that in the forefront and
understanding those business needs. And we need visitors uh to
come to Jasper and and and they're back in hoards.
It's incredible to see you know, Rocky Mountaineer and our
tours coming in on the motor coaches. Obviously, recent announcements

(55:01):
from Prime Minister Karti with you know, free entry into
the National parks, we'll we'll certainly bring more in, uh.
The supports there, people coming to Jasper is what we need.
Obviously it has a different look, but it's still beautiful.
The mountain peaks are just phenomenal. The wildlife is coming back,
and it's just really nice to see. But you know,

(55:23):
it's it's it is going to be a long road
for some of those businesses. Robert and but I know
very well that they're going to come back, as I said,
bigger and stronger than ever, and we look forward to
that in the near future.

Speaker 11 (55:36):
Right. That's awesome. Yeah, so let's let's get onto the reopening.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
I mean, you've got any special commemorative events tribute.

Speaker 12 (55:45):
You know, a lot of our a lot of our
focus went into making sure that we could reopen here
in July one and celebrate a historic birthday, being one
hundred years on July seventeenth. You know, we are going
to have, as I alluded earlier, just a lovely ceremony
on opening day before we you know, get balls in
the air at eight a m. We are going to

(56:07):
recognize the incredible efforts you know, not only our our
local fire brigade here in Jasper, but some of the
other communities. So we have some some time set aside
for them to kind of be the first ones off,
and you know, some may not play a full eighteen,
some may just hit a first t shot, but you know,
we will definitely recognize that. And and you know the

(56:28):
way I look at it as well, Roberts, you know,
we're able to celebrate our one hundred birthday this year,
and we're going to celebrate being open for one hundred
years all next year, so it's a year and a
half long celebration of our centennial. And I think you'll
see more, some more bigger events throughout all next season.
But you know, we will have this on opening day.

(56:50):
We'll recognize our birthday on July seventeenth. But you know,
a lot of the efforts from Tallinn and Glenn and
and the entire team here at the resort focused when
right into to reopening the golf course here next Tuesday.

Speaker 11 (57:02):
Sir, Yeah, you might want to recognize my birthday too.
It's July seventeenth.

Speaker 12 (57:07):
Oh, that small world, this is great. I certainly will
make known that absolutely. If you're able, maybe we should
get you out here to Jasper for that celebrate your birthday.

Speaker 11 (57:17):
That would be a nice treat. I'll talk to the
powers that be anyway.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
So as far as the overall guests experience, I mean
people that are going to be playing, you know, throughout
your golf season coming up, I mean, what what can
they expect in terms of anything different than what may
have been happening before.

Speaker 11 (57:41):
I mean, yeah, you know, I think that.

Speaker 12 (57:43):
The biggest thing obviously is just going to be the
landscape off the fairways, off the tees, off the greens.
You know, the mountain vistas are there, but you know
a lot of the trees you know, unfortunately were lost.
But everyone can still accept that that incredible world class
service that you know, I strongly feel we've come to
know for here in Jasper not our golf club, we

(58:05):
will be providing everybody with a commemorative tin when they
go to tea off, which will you know, have guest tags,
DIBA tools and a really specialty that you know came
from the idea of our Director of golf. Five different
colors representing you know, different processes throughout you know, the
fire and the ignition you know, being extinguished, the recovery

(58:29):
and reopening, historic scorecard of how this golf course was
opened in nineteen twenty five, and a lovely commemorative ten,
so every golfer will receive that when they come in.
We've had some you know, new additions with our driving range.
We have those two new holes seven and sixteen that

(58:50):
have a different look that go back to how Stanley
had first designed them back in the twenties. So very
excited to showcase that and as I said, Robert Tita Green,
the Turf Care team's just done incredible workout there, and
I think the conditions people can can really expect those
to be great throughout the entire season, and we're gonna
get better and better every day.

Speaker 7 (59:12):
You know.

Speaker 12 (59:12):
It's just that that landscape in the distance, But I
think once people get by, that is very unique and
it's very cool to see. It's part of nature, you know, revitalization.
Mother nature is very resilient as well, and then she'll
come back. There's already a lot of green within the mountains.
You can see some saplings coming up in certain areas.
So but yeah, other than that, Robert, they can expect

(59:36):
the same experience that they would have, you know, before
the fire five, ten, fifteen years ago. So really looking
forward to seeing them. I know, it's a very special place,
not only for all of us that are here, but
for all those that you know, may make a once
a year trip or once every five years. It's gonna
be very special and it'll be emotional, I think for

(59:58):
a lot of them as well. You know, it isn't
going to be exactly the way they remembered it pre
twenty twenty four, but again it's still beautiful in its
own sense with everything there and just so elated to
get everybody back and especially just going out on our
one hundredth birthday.

Speaker 10 (01:00:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Well, no, I mean it's to miracles in itself that
you guys have been able to, you know, do the
restoration and the time that you've had since last year.

Speaker 11 (01:00:23):
And get it to where it is now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
I mean earlier, I think just a little while ago,
you mentioned a couple changes on on some holes. I
mean beyond that, I mean, can you talk about that?
I mean, like, what what's been done? What holes were they?

Speaker 12 (01:00:37):
And no, absolutely so, And again I I'm sure I
can speak a little bit more. It's you know, we
do have a three phased approach for you know a
few seasons to get it on track. Everything from replacing
our you know, one hundred year old irrigation which you
know took a took a big hit throughout the fires
and just trying to keep enough water out there. You know,

(01:00:59):
obviously we have to re build a lot of our
permanent structures. You know, we lost our turf care facility.
You know, we lost some of our food and bever
stations out there, and some of our washrooms and you know,
we have a lot of great temporary you know solutions
out there for washrooms and food and bever stations, shelters.
You know, got to make sure that all of our
golfers safety is is foremost, so, you know, but I'll

(01:01:23):
talk on seven. It was a par three. We did
have a lot of the trees in the back of
the green that you know, unfortunately just kind of toppled down.
So when I and Andrew was out here, obviously being
a big Thompson gentleman, he had some blueprints and we
we widened the green slightly. We we brought it back

(01:01:44):
a little bit, and then totally redid the bunkering. So
visually it just looks new. It's open, and you know,
I'm not gonna lie. I think it's gonna be a
tougher Part three. Now, Stanley Thompson was known for his
par threes or the teeth of the golf course. But
that's an incredible change there on number seven and then

(01:02:04):
on number sixteen. For those that have played Big Doug
fur was a green side on the right hand side,
you know, unfortunately that was completely uprooted, so that tree
was removed and all that right side is now, you know, reshaped.
It's provided with short grass, so it just visually looks

(01:02:26):
way more difficult coming into that green. With a large green,
you have a nice surround area. So very excited to
kind of showcase those two changes. And then again mister
Andrew was pretty influential with some guidance on that moving forward.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Right, So with with the all the changes in the landscape,
I mean, how did that affect the wildlife situation? Have
they come back or have they stayed away?

Speaker 12 (01:02:56):
We've been lucky. There was a famous photo I believe
it was taken on the Thursday or Friday after the
wildfire came through the golf course and it was bear
to to Too and her two cubs that had hunkered
down just near the Athabasca River. So they're out. They've
been around this year as well. We've seen them. I've

(01:03:16):
had the pleasure of, you know, seeing a few black
bears out there, the alca around mule white tear dealer,
and then the Columbia ground squirrels as well. So the
wildlife is slowly starting to come back. You know, obviously
with everything that's taken place, the grass is very lush
and very rich with nutrients, and you're gonna see a

(01:03:37):
lot of them, you know, coming for a stack there.
So again, we worked very closely with Parks Canada on
wildlife mitigation, and you know, I hope people do get
to see these wildlife encounters from a very safe distance.
But you know, the wildlife is coming back and it
is there, which is really really nice to see.

Speaker 11 (01:03:54):
That's good to hear.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Yeah, of course you're always on alert, right part of me, Robert,
You're always on on alert exactly.

Speaker 12 (01:04:02):
You know, has never been an issue with wildlife. And
you know, I don't think we're going to start this season.
You know, they respect us just as much as we
respect them. So it's that two way street and I
got it. You know a lot of people do come.
Uh it's it's in our logo. We if you can
see my shirt, we have the bears in our logo.
So it is one of the things that our golfers

(01:04:22):
like to see and we hope they can from a
safe distance. And yeah, it's just it's it's just really
cool to see mother nature and how resilient she can
be with all the wildlife. It's it's pretty neat. That
is cool.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah, So I just want to let our audience know,
you guys are operated by Pharamount Hotels, and of course
there are no stranger to luxury properties. So what is
that association meant for you, you know, professionally, personally, you know,
and for the lodge, you know, for jes.

Speaker 12 (01:04:55):
Yeah, Pheromon Hotels and Resorts, you know, with the Core
hotels as well. It's one of the world the largest
hotel as be quite honest, one of the main reasons
I haven't left. It's an incredible company. They really care
for their colleagues and development and training, making sure that
you're able to provide, uh, you know, that luxury service

(01:05:17):
and hospitality that you know, people come to expect, you know,
when they're saving up for a lifetime to come visit us.
You know, they've taken care of not very well with
myself and my family, but you know, everyone throughout the resort,
especially last summer. Our ownership group is just incredible and
and I can't say enough great things about the organization

(01:05:39):
our specific resort. The company truly make you feel valued
and important in everyone's own little sense. So yeah, just
just phenomenal. They've been really supportive in allowing us to
to kind of put this golf course back on a
path for success. For the next one hundred years. And
and I can tell you wholeheartedly, Robert, that we are

(01:06:01):
off to a great start and look forward to uh
seeing how things are going to progress in the coming years.

Speaker 11 (01:06:07):
That's awesome. It's it's a story of resilience, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
And it's it's nice you've been able there to be
there to experience the firsthand.

Speaker 11 (01:06:17):
So for first time ers maybe you haven't been there,
what what's the best way to get to jos.

Speaker 12 (01:06:24):
Well, we talked about it earlier. I would definitely you know,
if you're flying in uh. You know, both Edmonton and
Calgary are phenomenal, but Calgary you have the privilege of
taking the Ice Fields Parkway. That's a three hour drive
through Bob Ross Painting. It's absolutely breathtaking. You've got copious
amounts of incredible views of the mountains, wildlife, so many

(01:06:50):
different points of interest spots along the way, waterfalls, canyons.
You know, you can you can theoretically take you seventy
eight hours to drive up that parkway. As you know, Robert,
if you're making a lot of these stops, but you know,
obviously with bias them, you have to have to say
going up the parkway. But you know, we're about three
and a half four hours from the Edmonton International Airport,

(01:07:12):
in about five hours from the the Calgary Airport there
and and you know, for those coming in from British Columbia,
be about an eight hour drive from Vancouver, you know,
coming through that way. But yeah, there's three main routes
into Jasper. It really kind of depends on where you'd
like to go, where you want to visit. We have

(01:07:32):
some great golf courses, uh, east, west and south of
us obviously Bat Springs, and you've got some great facilities
in the Canmore area and even in Edmonton as well.
So really it's you know, I guess whatever the best
deal is on a flight to either one of those
cities would work out. But my biased opinion coming up

(01:07:52):
the Icefields Parkway is just incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Oh yeah, no, I'm with you one hundred percent on that.
That to me, that that'd be the only way to
get there. Yes, so great. I mean, is there anything
else you will you'd like to yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:08:10):
Said, very very honored to be on here today and
to share the story of our you know, recovery and
revitalization efforts of you know, our historic golf course again.
I've I've been privileged to work here since two thousand
and nine, a young man coming out from Ontario at
twenty six to work for a summer and you know
who knows were the win was going to take me

(01:08:30):
to sixteen years later to see as I had golf
professional when some incredible professionals over the last hundred years
of have sat here, It's truly an honor. We are
very excited, you know, on behalf of Talent Sween, our
director of golf, our entire golf operations, the resort, in
the entire community is just so very much looking forward

(01:08:52):
to walking back our golfers to experience Stanley Thompson's masterpiece,
to be a part of that recovery and revitalization I
think is important as well, and and just looking forward
to celebrating that centennial season. Roberts Uh. You know, folks
can visit our website at Jasper Mountain Golf dot com.

(01:09:12):
We have a couple of different pages on everything that's
taking place over the next few seasons and our phased
approach on on on getting everything back on track. You know,
you can book a tea time there as well, and
kind of proves the entire website so truly just excited.
It's it's hard to believe it's less than five days
when we're going to reopen, and and you know, I'm

(01:09:35):
not probably gonna get much sleep in the next a
few days. With that excitement building, we are ready. We
are certainly ready to welcome the world back to visit
this facility, play some golf and and begin some new
memories at the Fairmount Asper Park Lodge Golf Club.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Well, I guess you got to consider that luck was
on your side that the wildfires happened last year, not
during the underd year.

Speaker 12 (01:10:00):
Again, it's tough to predict those, and I just know
that we're forever grateful, you know, for the efforts of
our our Jasper Fire Brigade, who was very very instrumental,
and not only say they in our golf course, but
you know the historic you know, Jasper Park Lodge as well,
and then the the other communities that were able to
provide some support. I can honestly say with without their efforts, Robert, I,

(01:10:25):
I likely wouldn't be speaking with you here today, to
be very truthful, So absolutely, very very thankful for them.

Speaker 11 (01:10:31):
Yeah, Okay, well I'm going to bring ted back in
here and something he might want to ask, Kay.

Speaker 4 (01:10:39):
You did a great job, you answered, You asked him
everything and he answered everything just spot on. But uh, again,
you know, congratulations on coming up to one hundred years.
I know, being in in Florida, now, you know, we've
had our fair share of you know, with hurricanes and
tornadoes and you name it. So I know exactly what
it's like to uh be in ground zero of a

(01:11:01):
devastation like that. And I certainly haven't been in wildfire,
so that's something different, but I have.

Speaker 12 (01:11:07):
No for it, that's for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:11:10):
And uh, it's great to see that the wildlife always
finds a way to survive and and uh and and
so do the people. And I have no doubt that
the course in the area is going to rebound and
and be bigger and better than before. So I'm grateful
that that you guys are coming in with with such
enthusiasm and eagerness to it celebrate. So just if you

(01:11:32):
want to quickly just give the website again for those
that want to investigate, maybe make a trip. They may
not make it in time for the for the hundred,
but uh, they may want to come a little bit
later on in the season before it closes up.

Speaker 5 (01:11:43):
How can they do that?

Speaker 12 (01:11:44):
Where's the website, absolutely, jasper Mountain Golf dot com. They
can peruse that. There's links that will also take you
to you know, our Fairmont site for the resort as well.
But again, as I mentioned earlier, they can kind of
peruse everything. What they can expect and some frequently asked
questions and and the work that will be ongoing throughout

(01:12:05):
the next you know season or two until we get
everything kind of rebuilt and back on track. But yeah,
we're open July first, uh, and we'll go all the
way through until Thanksgiving Sunday here in Canada, you know,
mother nature cooperates and the snow does the stick on
the ground. But a hundred days to play golf, and
what's our one hundred year here is Uh, it's pretty

(01:12:27):
special when when you think of that, and and kind
of funny how how that worked out and how it
kind of played into our centennial celebrations here.

Speaker 4 (01:12:35):
Ted, I'm just grateful that you are able to celebrate
this year. So Troy, thank you very much for joining us,
and thank you for having us on. Robert is always
thank you for doing a great job. Welcome, I'm gonna
I'm gonna take another quick commercial break, and then I'm
gonna be joined by my very special guest of the
evening as well as Barney Adams from Breakthrough Golf. So

(01:12:56):
thank you guys, and I will be right back.

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Speaker 4 (01:13:29):
Welcome back everybody, and Tim now to introduce this evening's
featured guest. I'm very excited to have him back on
the show, and especially on this new format. Of course,
I'm talking about Barney Adams. He's the CEO of Breakthrough
Golf Technology and he was the founder of Adams Golf
back in nineteen eighty eight, which course specialized in custom
fitted golf clubs. The company gained national recognition following the

(01:13:52):
groundbreaking success of the tight Lies Ferrywoods, which revolutionized the
way golfers approach their long game. This innovation propelled Adams
Golf to rapid growth and earn Barney the Manufacturing Entrepreneur
of the Year Award from Ernst and Young. His contributions
to the sport were further recognized when he received the

(01:14:13):
Ernie Sabarak Award for the PGA of America for his
lifetime impact on the golf industry. And he's led the
company as Chairman of the board until twenty twelve when
Taylor Made acquired Adams Golf, and here we are fast
forward a few more years and he's now the CEO
of Breakthrough Golf Technology. So Barney, welcome to Golf Talk Live.

(01:14:35):
I appreciate you coming and joining me.

Speaker 6 (01:14:37):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:14:38):
Let me ask you a real quick question because I
think I might have messed that up. Is that how
you pronounced Ernie's last.

Speaker 10 (01:14:43):
Name Hearnston Young? As far as I know, Oh, Ernie.

Speaker 4 (01:14:50):
I knew it was okay, I got it close enough.
I apologize I didn't, So I want to ask you
first off, just sort of a a general golf question.
I know there's a lot of things we want to
talk about tonight, but you've obviously.

Speaker 5 (01:15:04):
Been around golf for a while now, a long while.

Speaker 4 (01:15:09):
I'm not going to get into age specific, but you know,
on the industry for a long time. Did you ever
imagine seeing some of the changes in golf that we're
seeing now, particularly with equipment obviously I'm talking about I mean,
obviously there's a lot of other changes, but with equipment,
I mean, from what you saw, you know, twenty thirty
years ago and beyond to what it is now, did

(01:15:29):
you ever imagine that we would be where we are today?

Speaker 10 (01:15:33):
Well, yes and no. I mean, frankly, let's say equipment
hasn't change as much as the marketing departments.

Speaker 6 (01:15:43):
What have you believe it's changed?

Speaker 10 (01:15:46):
You can, and I've done this. You can find ten
fifteen year old clubs and have people hit them, same results,
same results. That might be a little more consistent, and
they might be a little bit better here and there.
But it's not like you know, a gas engine versus
an electric engine, for example.

Speaker 4 (01:16:06):
Sure, yeah, yeah, I mean there's been certainly a lot
of changes in the looks of the equipment from what
we used to swing many years ago. But you're right,
and I've proved exactly what you're saying. I can remember,
you know, as being a teacher professional for years. I
can remember, you know, students coming up and with a
flashy new driver and all excited, but they couldn't hit it.

(01:16:27):
And I said, you know, you had that great driver before,
why'd you get rid of Well, I wasn't hitting it
as far. And I grabbed that old driver and I'd
hit it a mile out there, And I say, well,
just maybe it's not the driver.

Speaker 5 (01:16:36):
It's the driver driver.

Speaker 4 (01:16:39):
And it proved exactly what you're talking about is. And again,
obviously there's there's been some changes, you know. I want to,
you know, certainly be before upfront here that there has
been certainly some changes in technology and that. But but
ultimately it's how you utilize the equipment, and.

Speaker 10 (01:16:56):
The changes, by the way, are God's say, skill oriented.
In other words, the better players appreciate the changers more
than say, you know, bums like me, same old stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:17:10):
Yeah, well they see the biggest results and differences. I mean,
I know when and just to go to the marketing
point you were talking about. I can remember for years,
you know, manufacturers talking about you know, ten twenty thirty
extra yards, you know, which wasn't happening for the average golfer.
Now for the pros, they might have seen those those gains,

(01:17:30):
but you know, the average guy wasn't talk about. And
I'm just gonna call him for beg b GT for short,
just to save time. A breakthrough golf technology. You guys
obviously have some incredible shaft technology, and obviously you're you're
competing against so many other competitors out there. What makes

(01:17:51):
your product different? What is a difference with your shafts
than what a lot of the stuff out in the market,
because there's a lot of good stuff out there, but
you guys have got some incredible stuff.

Speaker 10 (01:18:00):
Yeah. I mean, our philosophy starts with a golfer. Doesn't
start with a product. It starts with a golfer. We
take you know, I'm an old range raft. That's where
I grew up, was out of the driving range, custom
fitting thirty years ago, and so on and so forth,
and it all starts with, Okay, if this club is
supposed to be good, or this shaft is supposed to

(01:18:21):
be good, or this putter is supposed to be good.
Let's go to the grass. Let's find out. And if
you don't get the kind of results we want, then
it's not our product.

Speaker 4 (01:18:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true, and you really have to
try things out. You know a lot of people, a
lot of golfers. That's I think one of the number
one things. And this is why going to prompt My
next question is, and I'm talking about from a general
golfers precision, how do they decide which is the right
shaft for them? I mean, obviously you have to be
fitted and things like that, you have to try things up,
But how do they know what they need to be

(01:18:53):
looking for in the first place, Because there's a lot
of confusion with golfers out there. They don't know what
they really need. And yeah, you can market them to death,
would stop. But the truth of the matter is what
do they need to really be looking for? And if
you want to give an example of maybe take a
handicap range and to say, if you know, if you're
twenty five handicap, you know, these are the things you
should be looking for in your shaft if you want
to use that as an example.

Speaker 5 (01:19:12):
Well, it's all ballflight, okay.

Speaker 10 (01:19:15):
I mean if I go to the range with you,
and I mean it's not much different than my old
days when I was a fitter. I go to the
range with you when I got a club, and the
objective for the club is for you to get the
ball up in the air with your swing, which is
I've taken in a consideration, and you do, it's over.

Speaker 6 (01:19:33):
That's it.

Speaker 10 (01:19:33):
That's as good as I can do, right, And that's
what it's all about. If it's a professional player, then
we might be talking about the relative ability to work
the ball a little bit because that four is all
that's more of their game. Or of course, the infamous
cause or the infamous factor is distance. Distance sells golf

(01:19:54):
clubs more than anything else. Five to one. People want
to hit it further, and so the question isn't hitting
it further per se? Is it hitting one further and
far into the trees? Maybe that's not so good. Maybe
it's hitting one good, maybe not quite as far, but

(01:20:15):
one good. But the other four in play that's a
much better product. It's that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:20:21):
I want you to talk about, because again this is
again I'm coming from the industry's standpoint. You know a
lot of people have heard flex point in the shaft.
You know, you got your low, high, and medium sort
of flex points. Most golfers couldn't tell you what one
means from the other. What is the difference and how
does it apply? Is it based on the speed of

(01:20:44):
the swing? How does it decide what flex point is
right for what golfer? Or does it matter.

Speaker 10 (01:20:49):
I'm going to give you a kind of an off
the wall answer. The most successful set of irons in
the history the golf industry where the so obviously their
flex point would be applicable. Following your shaatement, every ping
I iron ever made in the history of time had

(01:21:11):
an X shaft in it. What the hell has I
got to do with flex point? Right?

Speaker 6 (01:21:18):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:21:19):
True?

Speaker 4 (01:21:20):
Might be in the marketing department, Yeah, I think that's
another one. But you know what, this is The thing
that I'm getting at is, you know, you hear them
talk about so much of this stuff, and again, I
know it's marketing. I mean I know this, and you
know this because we're in the business. But you know,
for the average joe out there that goes out and
they start talking about this or they're you know, questioning it.
Maybe they're out and doing a demo day or something

(01:21:42):
and they're hearing all these buzzwords thrown at them and
they don't really understand what it means. And obviously there
are going to be some some differences. But again it's
at a higher level. The average golfer is not swinging
the club fast enough really to benefit from some of
the things that consistently enough or consistent enough. Of course
that's the other at but so it really doesn't matter

(01:22:05):
as much the average golfer. Correct, No, I don't think so.

Speaker 10 (01:22:10):
I used to experiment with this all the time when
I was a club fitter, and I take a guy
that was, to say, a twenty handicap and not very
much club speed and give him a club with a
shaft at it. I tell him it was a very
soft shaft to fit his swing, and I'd be lying
it would have an excident, right, and he did it
and go, hey, that's pretty good, you know, and so

(01:22:30):
what like, So you know a fact. So it's it's
it's a it's all up to the individual. If if
the feedback to the individual is positive, I don't care
what the flex is to be honest with you, and
I don't really I'm going to tell you how dumb
I I have a three way we have it's a
new product for us, but we'll skip that. And I

(01:22:52):
really liked it. And then I got to the point
where I said about trouble hitting it. I tried to
have a trouble up of the air. So I convinced
myself and I needed to reshaft it. And I went
out and reshafted it. Now, how dumb is that? Yeah,
but you know, I'm just another golfer. So I hit
it today. I hit it pretty good. I said, Ah,
I was right. The chaff makes all the difference until tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (01:23:14):
When it happens again. Yeah. Yes, Well, and that's you know,
I've taught.

Speaker 4 (01:23:19):
I've done a lot of corporate golf and taught a
lot of corporate executives and that. And one of the
things that always used to make me laugh was I
would see them come out at the beginning of the season.
They'd want to get a tune up, and they'd be
walking with some new equipment.

Speaker 5 (01:23:31):
And I can think of one.

Speaker 4 (01:23:32):
I won't get into specifics, but and he walked in
with new equipment, and I you know, I remember from
last season that he was struggling to you know, break
a hundred. Didn't you know, didn't want to practice, didn't
have time, was too minute much in the boardroom. And
I said, listen, you know, you've got to start getting
serious game if you want to improve. And he came
in with a chunk of equipment that would just cost

(01:23:54):
and he had money.

Speaker 5 (01:23:55):
I mean, it wasn't an issue of money.

Speaker 4 (01:23:56):
But and I and I said to him quite bluntly,
I said, listen, I said, I'm looking, just doing a
quick tally, you're looking at about three thousand dollars worth
of equipment, including the bag. I said, for a third
of that, I could have gotten you just as good
of equipment, probably less than that. And I said, you
could have taken the other two thousand dollars and bought
your wife another piece of jewelry twice.

Speaker 5 (01:24:17):
As happy as in it. Because I said, you know,
what's the point.

Speaker 4 (01:24:22):
And again, I know he had the money, but the
point was that he was not able to get out
there and really capitalize on that. And I just see
that all the time. I mean you see it go
down to the PG show. And again, I'm not trying
to you know, slam the industry. But you see that
every year, and they're coming out and the drivers are
getting more expensive, and this is getting more expensive and
the average person can't hit it.

Speaker 10 (01:24:41):
I just came from I won't mention their name, but
one of the new custom fitting centers because if they
do some reshafting for me and so on. And I
heard him tell the guy that, look, you want to
get a whole You told me you want to get
a whole set woods irons bag the whole deal. It
would be about eight or nine thousand dollars. And I'm going,

(01:25:01):
what you know, But that's the world that we live in.
And it's almost like the more you paid, and there's
a company out there, by the way that that revolves
around this. The more you pay, the better they must be.

Speaker 5 (01:25:15):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 10 (01:25:17):
And by the way, if you want up, if you
want to help those guys. I keep track of weird
stuff at the driving range. I count how long the
player X goes to the driving range before he pulls
out his driver. He hits about six chips, and what
he ought to be doing is hitting mostly chips because

(01:25:39):
he's not gonna have the greens anyway. If he really
wants to play better, score better, right, but you know
they want to hit it further.

Speaker 4 (01:25:46):
Yeah, it's it's I mean, you're you're you're battling up
a uphill against multi millions of dollars of marketing and
it's a marketing business. Yeah, exactly, unfortunately. But all right,
so let's get on to uh your new Potter line paradox.
This is something exciting, very very different from what I've seen,
and I've seen a lot of stuff on the market.

(01:26:07):
Talk about some of the unique features here. Obviously it's
available in mallet or blade, and what sort of was
the thought behind the development of this and what were
some of the features that we can expect to see.

Speaker 10 (01:26:23):
I'd say, in one word, torque. But what you want
in a putting stroke is you want to return the
face to the ball square. You know, if you're a
putting instructor and I'm not returning the face to the
ball square, You've got a problem because you know, I'm
just not going to be very good. Well, if you

(01:26:44):
take if you look like remember the old putters that
Walter Hagens for example, and the and the mallet heads
of today, they're three times heavier. Yeah, and the shafts
haven't changed that much over the last zillion years, so
you've got more weight wanting it during the stroke, which
makes the shaft twist a little bit, oscillate a little
bit because they're disproportional. So this system, I won't go

(01:27:09):
into it because it's very complicated, but it's called principal access.
But basically what it says is that when you have
a bunch of weight at the end of a rod,
it's not going to move, and you design the sha
this is what you have to do to make it happen.
So the putter is very, very very consistent, and that's

(01:27:31):
all you can ask for. You know, the best putters
in the world don't make half, right, you look at
the data. You know the pros on tour, they don't
make fifty percent. They make maybe forty something percent. So
it's a game of missus yep. And if you are
always would tell people putting, if you think you will,

(01:27:52):
you will, and if you think you won't, you won't.

Speaker 5 (01:27:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:27:57):
This is to give the player that coffis that solid
feel that he thinks he's going to make more.

Speaker 4 (01:28:04):
Yeah, attitude is definitely a lot a lot to do
with it. For sure, and we see that as instructors.
I mean I see people coming all the time, and
you know, I always joke around. It's like going to
the airport. I see people, you know, dragging their baggage
up to the you know, up to get ready to
go on. I see the same thing, you know, the

(01:28:25):
golf course. And I'm not talking about their golf clubs.
I'm just talking about all the emotional baggage from bad round,
you know, moving from one hole to another. They just
had a bad part three, and they're bringing all of
the bad memories and the bad thoughts and the swing
thoughts and whatnot, and they're stepping up on the tee
and then they're wondering why they're not, you know, making
a good swing because they're thinking about two holes ago

(01:28:47):
or the last hole or whatever it is.

Speaker 10 (01:28:48):
So I wrote a story about this that because I
was asked, you know, is golf fun? You got to
play golf because it's fun. I said, that's blowny. Golf
is not fun golf.

Speaker 6 (01:29:00):
It was hard.

Speaker 10 (01:29:01):
It's very, very very hard. But as a result, it's
also very rewarding, and that's the thing that keeps you
coming back. I did another experiment oh gee, for a
better part of two years. Because I lived on a
golf course, I could get over to the range. What
was the best shot you hit last time you played?

(01:29:22):
I always got an answer, and I always got an
answer fast. Oh I hit a seb and I are
at a number fourteen got it was beautiful, you know,
or teacher whatever. That's the rewarding part, and that's what
brings people back.

Speaker 6 (01:29:32):
To the game.

Speaker 5 (01:29:33):
You know, it's funny.

Speaker 4 (01:29:35):
That reminds me of a very interesting story. You know,
Jack Nicholas never talked about his bad shots, never right.
I remember he got almost I won't say angry, but
he got agitated in an interview one time and he says,
why are you asking me about that? He said, I
don't remember. I don't remember that shot, or I don't
remember that that round or what have you. And you know,

(01:29:55):
to further prove your point is he was always focused
on what he did right, wasn't focused on what he
did wrong. And if he needed to work on something,
he went up to the range and he worked on something.
But he didn't sit there and doula. And that's where
a lot of golfers fall into that trap.

Speaker 10 (01:30:09):
I'll give you a name that you'll remember, mow Norman.
Oh yeah, I used to. I used to play golf
with Mo. I like, all right, so you know what
he was like. And I watched I'm watching him hit
balls one day and it was ridiculous. So they were
almost bounting off of each other, just one after another
after another. And then he hit one a little heavy,

(01:30:32):
and the guy standing next to me said, hey, Mo, Mo,
a couple of shots ago, you hit that one a
little bit heavy. What did you think about? And Mo
wheels around and SYSTEM think about, that's a bad shot.
I don't think about bad shots. I only think about
good shots. And he wheels back around and starts hitting
the balls again. Yeah, he the same answer.

Speaker 7 (01:30:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:30:52):
Moe was an interesting character. I can remember. I only
played with him a couple of times. I actually met
him through somebody else. And I remember I was up
on a range up back up in Canada, and Mo
of course came over. He was he was going to be, uh,
you know, looking for for a play around with his friend,
and uh the gentleman's name was Nick Westlock.

Speaker 5 (01:31:12):
I know Nick.

Speaker 4 (01:31:13):
Yeah, and uh so Nick and I were there and
we were going to so he said, you know, Mo,
do you want to join us?

Speaker 5 (01:31:18):
So of course he did.

Speaker 4 (01:31:19):
Well, I was hitting a few balls on the range
and and uh, Nick had said to Mo. He said,
you know, Ted's, you know, struggling a little bit here.
He said, uh, what advice could you give him? And
he said, what are you hitting? And I said, I'm
hitting my seven iron. He said, well he grabbed it,
and MO grabbed his and he went out there and
I said, you know, what am I doing wrong here?

Speaker 5 (01:31:37):
What do I need to do?

Speaker 4 (01:31:38):
And Mo, without missing the beat, walked up hit about
three or four seven irons, just like you said, bouncing
off on one another.

Speaker 5 (01:31:44):
Turned to me.

Speaker 4 (01:31:45):
Didn't say, you know, hold the grip it this way.
He said, do that and then you know, so you know,
and and it's true. I mean, obviously you know there
was more to it, but that's how he looked at it.
And and I think a lot of golfers unfortunately. So
I want to go back to the Potters because I
want to give you a good opportunity to really dive

(01:32:06):
into them a little bit more on that. So obviously,
I mean, torque is a big thing. What about the
design of the potters themselves? The Potter had I'm talking about,
was there anything unique about that or different?

Speaker 10 (01:32:18):
Well, they got to you know, every mallet head in
the world is different than the other ones, and so
they look different. I honestly answer, I struggled with I
prefer the mallet a mallet putter, and so I preferred
that one. So I went in that direction, and I
struggled with it at the beginning, and I thought that
thing is I don't know if oh blah blah blah.

(01:32:40):
But the more I hit it, and the more I
realized how consistent I was, then I started looking good.
So the whether it looks good or looks bad or
whatever is really a factor of where the golf ball goes.
Because the best is coming back to is Hey, you
just hit six putts from fifteen feet and you're six
inches from the hole. You that's better. That's better than

(01:33:01):
you are. So that's that's that's how it looks. So
we have a and we we have a blade and
a mail and we have more coming because it's a
beauty in the eyes of the beholder thing. I mean,
you know you've had this happened. Guy, I will show
you us putters and look at this thing, and it's beautiful.

Speaker 12 (01:33:16):
You look at it.

Speaker 10 (01:33:16):
Go my god, I would touch that.

Speaker 4 (01:33:19):
Yeah, that's the name of the game. Yeah, I've I've
demoed a few of them. Let me tell you, I
put them back in that that sleeve real quick.

Speaker 6 (01:33:30):
Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (01:33:31):
Yeah, some of them are pretty crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:33:33):
But you know, I think what it would it boils
down to, So when you're when you're sitting, you know,
in your office or or at home, and the wheels
are are turning upstairs there and you're you know.

Speaker 10 (01:33:44):
Thinking, always are Unfortunately, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:33:48):
Yeah, unfortunately, great minds are are tough to shut down,
and that that's both a blessing and a curse, unfortunately
for the individual. But what do you think about, like
when when you want to see you know, uh, break
through golf be successful, what is it you're thinking about.
I mean, obviously you have to market the products and
all that kind of stuff, but we talk about.

Speaker 10 (01:34:08):
Exactly No, I tell you exactly the answer because I
just went through this the other day. I want people
to know that they can't go wrong using our stuff.
You know, they might prefer something else, that's fine, I
understand whatever the reasons are. But they know that if
they use our products, they're engineered as well as they

(01:34:30):
could be. They're tested and they do what we say
they would do.

Speaker 5 (01:34:34):
Yeah, and that's that. Yeah, and that's all you can
ask for.

Speaker 4 (01:34:37):
I mean, you know that's what you're really what you
want is you want to whatever product you buy, but
particularly from your standpoint, is you want people when they
walk away and they're using your product, whether it's one
of the shafts or whether it's the putter or another product,
you want them to know that it's not just well

(01:34:58):
they say it does that, it does what they say
it does.

Speaker 10 (01:35:01):
And that's the story. I think it was about five
or six putters. You know, we send them out to
individuals and test putters and so on to get just
to get feedback. They wouldn't return them, he said, yeah.
And then furthermore, it's in the bag and don't ask.

Speaker 4 (01:35:19):
But it was not a service, you know that. And
they've moved twice. Yeah, and that's that speaks volume. But
you know, obviously everybody wants to you know, wants their
company to do well. But I think there's I think
people that approach this from a development standpoint, that develop
you know, their equipment have a uniqueness because there there's

(01:35:43):
sort of a special bond with that equipment. It's not
just you know, here I'm working for this company. You're
actually developing the products. You're actually you know, getting your
your your hands dirty sort of speak, and.

Speaker 10 (01:35:55):
And all the same to our guys. All think the
conversations are all similar. It's about is this better for
the golfer? Because if it isn't, don't waste my time.

Speaker 5 (01:36:05):
Yeah, I mean it looks great and all that kind
of stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:36:07):
But if it's not going to do it what you
wanted to do, and the golfer is ultimately not going
to see value out of it, you know, they might
as well just hang that up on the shelf and
go and get something else.

Speaker 10 (01:36:17):
It's call the while factor. In the old days, when
I was a custom fitter, yeah, i'd get them a wow,
this really hits good. That was a big deal. Oh yeah,
because that's you know, getting getting to the heart and
soul of the golfer. So they would say, wow, this
is good. I'm thinking that's good. That's where I want
to be.

Speaker 5 (01:36:35):
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.

Speaker 4 (01:36:39):
I wanted to ask you this is and and as
we are moving into a newer age, if you will
a technology age, you think you know where I'm going
to go with this one. But is AI going to
become do you think a game change? I mean, it
already is in some ways. And if so, how do
you see that? What's what role do you think AI
is going to play? What you're doing well?

Speaker 10 (01:37:02):
And again, that's a recent conversation I had with one
of my old friends. All my friends are old, so it's.

Speaker 5 (01:37:08):
The area I'm getting there.

Speaker 6 (01:37:09):
To you, I hear you.

Speaker 10 (01:37:14):
I don't like what I see. I don't like golf.
I just read an article on the local paper. I
live in Colorado, the local paper about golf facilities that
aren't golf courses. So we've got hitting into screens and
nets and so on and so forth. That to me,
is not golf. I'm not interested in those places. I

(01:37:36):
know they're very accurate, and this is maybe a little
of a diversion off of AI, but it's still the
high technology approach, is what you're talking about. I just
another buddy of mine just got back from two weeks
of playing the old course in Saint Andrew's and to me,
that's as good as it gets. I mean, that's just
old fashioned walk great. You know here it is and

(01:37:58):
so on and so forth. You can't avoid AI. It's
it's magic. I mean, I can't even begin to understand
how it works. But I still prefer the grass of
a range and the grass of a golf course.

Speaker 4 (01:38:12):
From a quipment standpoint, though, do you think it will
play a role in the development.

Speaker 10 (01:38:19):
And it'll play a bigger role in the ads, and
it will in the development.

Speaker 5 (01:38:24):
Okay, So from a marketing standpoint, it's going to be.

Speaker 10 (01:38:27):
AI sign which hit the ball within five feet every time,
and so on and so forth.

Speaker 5 (01:38:33):
You know, I like it. I love that. You know.
I'm the same way.

Speaker 10 (01:38:39):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:38:40):
I had an earlier segment on my show tonight and
we were talking we have a panel discussion, and we
were talking about, you know, golf instruction from say thirty
years ago to what it is today, and of course
you've had an onslaught of technology and one of the things.
And again, you know, I know it has a role
and it has a place. But I've found now it's
starting to move a little bit in a different direction.

(01:39:01):
But one of the concerns I always had was that people,
and I'm talking about instructors, now we're getting so entrenched
in the technology that they were looking at a monitor
all the time. They weren't even paying attention to their student,
and a lot of students got frustrated. And you know
it's like, you know, hey, I'm over here hitting balls. Yeah,
you know, round up another one, go ahead and hit

(01:39:22):
another one. And they're they're looking at the numbers.

Speaker 10 (01:39:25):
Well if the ball, you know, the ball's not getting
up to its normal height. Well, have you notice that
the guide never gets back over to his left side.
That might have something to do with it, and so.

Speaker 4 (01:39:33):
On, right exactly, And you know they're just basing it
on the numbers and and and that's what I worry
a little bit about with with AI and and and that.
You know, again, I think there's going to be a
place for it, but at the same time I worry.
And that's why I wanted to get your thoughts is
do you see that? And I'm sure some of them
are already doing it where some of the manufacturers are
going to get into a very adaptive approach. Yeah, and

(01:39:56):
you can see them where everything is going to be designed, created,
you know, manufactured and that, and you're not going to
have that sort of personal, you know, input from someone
like yourself who has a lot of experience and understands
what golfers really want because the machine doesn't really just
basing it on. And and something that was mentioned earlier,
and I want to get your your take on this.

(01:40:17):
I think you'll agree one hundred percent with this too,
is who's going to program it? Somebody has the information
and you if you have, you know, somebody from you know,
a box store over here that says, Okay, we want
to standardize the equipment, so we're going to program AI

(01:40:38):
to look at it from this from these I mean,
you talked about PING earlier. Look what happened with PING
some years ago. You know that could very easily happen
with AI. You see that as being a concern, well
financial concern.

Speaker 10 (01:40:53):
I A. I think it's not. As answer is. First off,
I think it's over my head. To be very honest
with you. My opinion for what it's worth is that
you're playing with fire and you better be very, very
very careful, and you just can get so interested and
so carried away that you forget the damn business that
you're in. And so I always say I was a

(01:41:15):
golf ball doing because that's where your answer is. I'll
tell you, I'll tell you that it's sort of similar,
but I'll tell you a more Norman story. This is
a place called the Royal Oak Country Club in Titusville, Florida,
which is outside of Orlando. I was owned by the
Canadian PGA in those days, a long time ago, and
my mom lived in the area, so I would go
down and i'd stay with her. She was widowed. And

(01:41:38):
then I go to the PGA show, which wasn't very
far away, and I go over to Royal and that's
where I met Mo. Was at Royal Oak. And as
you know, Moe was not an easy guy to meet
or talk to now, but I was a hockey fan,
and once he found out I was a hockey fan,
I was in. That was in you know, hey, how
you doing? You know, so on and so forth. So

(01:42:00):
I'm watching them hit balls and I'm thinking, you know,
for the way this guy hits the golf ball, a
standard product is not going to work best for him.
So I didn't say anything to him. I went back
and made some irons. I think there were. They weren't
D fives, I think they were G fives or something.

(01:42:21):
I mean, the heads are really really heavy. Yeah, And
I made him and did all the other stuff. And
so when I went back to mow and I said,
give this a whack with and he took him, he
put him bright, and he said these are great, and
he just that was it. I made his clubs from
there on in. But they were the clubs for the player.
And that's the point I keep making over and over again.
You know, it was, Oh my gosh, I can tell

(01:42:43):
the difference. I can you know this. He was so
strong and so consistent of what you mean he was
as you know, he was frequently strong. I mean, there's
an old thing that says, I don't know if you
know his background, Yes, and people consider him to be
autistic or something like that, but it was not. He
was sliding down the hill at a toboggan with his friend,
lost track, went out and got river by a truck,

(01:43:06):
ye know, And he went home that night. He was
actually dribbling blood from his nostril, but he went home,
you know, oh yeah, blah blah blah. So he went
to bed. But he was never the same after that.
So the argument can be that he had brain damage,
but he was never diagnosed formally for it and so on.
But he was so physically strong because he'd loved to

(01:43:29):
pinch it got he would. I had black and blue
marks all over me, those damn things. But I thought, okay,
that I got to make clubs for him, not clubs
for clubs, but clubs for him because he's different.

Speaker 6 (01:43:43):
And I did.

Speaker 4 (01:43:45):
Yeah, And that's the same. That's you know, you're seeing
more and more now with instruction as well. I mean,
and this is one of the things we talked about earlier,
is that for years they were sort of doing a
cookie cutter approach where everybody was being taught the same
putting in the same mold, the same methods and whatnot.
And you know, finally people realize that, hey, everybody's different,
just like you were talking with Mo and not so true.

Speaker 5 (01:44:06):
And it is with the equipments.

Speaker 4 (01:44:08):
What are you most excited about, paradox putters, what's the
most exciting thing for you?

Speaker 5 (01:44:13):
I mean, obviously you want where.

Speaker 10 (01:44:14):
They had impact. The consistency. I mean, that's what putting is.
It's about being consistent. You know, if you if you
hit one two inches from the hole from thirty feet
and they hit the next one ten feet from the
hole to thirty feet, it might be an issue there.
So I want to give somebody something that they're consistent with.
And that's what I noticed with it because I fought

(01:44:35):
it at the beginning. The head just didn't look like
I was used to and I was fighting it, but
the consistency of the ball roll kind of got through
to me. And now I like it. Now I understand
it and I like it, and I think that's that's
absolutely the key. And because I said before putting the
best players in the world, I think it's I think

(01:44:57):
it was from four feet make like forty of their
putts or something like that. You're not making everything, and
anybody that tells you why is just not telling.

Speaker 5 (01:45:06):
You the truth.

Speaker 6 (01:45:06):
They're lying to you.

Speaker 10 (01:45:07):
Yeah, So I want I want when the guy reaches
for his putter or the lady reaches for her putter,
I want to I want her to feel confident. I
want her to be glad that she's got it.

Speaker 5 (01:45:18):
Yeah. I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 4 (01:45:21):
And I think that from you know a standpoint too,
I think that people want to feel, you know, when
it comes to you know that you talked about you
touched on short game and that earlier, you know, more
strokes are lost around the green whether it's chip or
what have you. And uh, you know, as an instructor,
one of the most frustrating things is seeing people pulling

(01:45:43):
their driver out in the driving range. You know, there's
three swings, the three swings, and I always joke because
I always go when I go up and just you know,
piddle around with my own game when I have when
I have a chance, is I go over on the
around the green and the bunkers and stuff.

Speaker 10 (01:45:58):
Nobody there. That's yeah, that's right. We have a love
practice green in our course. I think I've seen two
people on it in the last.

Speaker 4 (01:46:06):
Two ride exactly. But yeah, it's it's just it's amazing.
So you said there's more stuff coming down the road
under the paradox line. What's anything you can share or
is this something that you're putter designs? Okay, I mean,
you know, because again it's racist for horses. You know,
I'm not a big fan of blade pudders, So if

(01:46:28):
we made a line of blade putters, guys like me
wouldn't be very good customers.

Speaker 10 (01:46:32):
Versusly you know, mail Itt and so on. So you
want to have different variations in the blade and mail
At categories, and that gives you a broader appeal. Putters
are a three billion dollars a year business irrespective of
the rest of the clubs in the bag, So they're
certainly worth spending time and effort on. And you know

(01:46:53):
that's what you do.

Speaker 5 (01:46:56):
Just be an accurate statement?

Speaker 4 (01:46:58):
Is I mean obviously, when golfers get fitted for their clubs,
but many golfers don't get fitted for a putter.

Speaker 10 (01:47:09):
Oh yeah, with that?

Speaker 4 (01:47:11):
Is that something if you were, if you were speaking
with a group of and I'm sure you've done this
many times, a group of you know, average golfers out there,
what would you say to them when it comes to
selecting a putter? And I mean, obviously, let's forget the
your your putter for a second, but what yeah, what
would you say?

Speaker 10 (01:47:28):
Two things? Yes, get fitting? Where where is where is
the ball to your eyes and your hands? That allows
you to be consistent? Okay?

Speaker 6 (01:47:39):
And I could go on.

Speaker 10 (01:47:40):
Blah blah blah. However, the two best putters I ever
saw in my life did everything wrong, everything wrong. The
one guy would aim left of his target and block it,
and the other guy would aim right of his target
and pull it. So I got to pay attention to

(01:48:01):
who I'm talking to because that's that's the nature of
the game. They didn't they didn't know or care if
they were right or wrong.

Speaker 5 (01:48:08):
They knew this.

Speaker 10 (01:48:09):
This is what they did to make more putts. And
they were great putters. So I've never forgotten that. You know,
that's the kind of thing that that that's really the
heart and soul of Gulf. I think, Yeah, it's just like, well,
this putter is perfect for you, and you have to
have the ball here in your hands here and so
on and so forth. Yeah, don't cut I guess my friend,
he'll he'll own you after a while.

Speaker 4 (01:48:30):
I had the pleasure years ago when they used to
play open up at Glen Abbey still in Oakville, Ontario,
And I remember after the open when they opened it
back up to the public and I met a gentleman
who was a veteran and had had lost one arm
through through the services, and we went out and couldn't

(01:48:52):
hit the ball very far. I mean I launched it
past them all the time. But man, he outputted me
on those greens.

Speaker 5 (01:48:59):
Yeah, I joked, and I ed to.

Speaker 4 (01:49:00):
Call him one putt because that's pretty much what he
did with the green could very far.

Speaker 10 (01:49:05):
Uh, And they're not designing clubs for him. No, you're
deciding clubs that he can use, but you're not designing
club for him because the next guy it's completely different.

Speaker 4 (01:49:15):
Yeah, exactly. I couldn't agree more so, Barnie. If if
people want to get more information, if the audience wants
to learn more, or if they want to find out
about how to go about getting a fitting h for
their paradox putter, where do they go?

Speaker 10 (01:49:28):
Do you online? Okay, that's btg golf. I'm not very
good with that stuff. I don't I don't pay much.

Speaker 4 (01:49:35):
But it's Breakthrough golf Tech dot com.

Speaker 10 (01:49:37):
Yeh, Through Golf Technology, Yes dot com. It's a good website.
I actually I say that. I mean, what the hell
am I going to say? But I thought I read
it myself. I thought, hey, this is interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:49:49):
Yeah, that's good. That's good. I I hear you. I
know exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:49:52):
So it's Breakthrough golf Tech dot com is the website.
You can go and check it out. There's a lot
of great videos on there. It gives you a little
bit more in depth explanation on some of the things
that that Barney touched on tonight. So obviously you couldn't
get too technical on the show, but you can actually
see them in the videos and you can see the
the equipment there and obviously all of the other shafts

(01:50:13):
that are available through their company. So you again visit
break Through golf tech dot com as the website, and Barney,
I want to thank you very much. If you want
to hang tight for just a second, I'm going to
wrap up and then we'll we'll go. I want to
again thank all of my guests, especially earlier on in
the show. I want to thank John Decker and Clint

(01:50:33):
Wright for joining me in the Coach's Corner panel. And
then also a special thanks to my travel guest tonight,
my good friend and co host Robert Kaufman, and also
our special travel guest Troy Mills from Jasper Jasper Park
Lodge up in Canada. Their golf club is reopening first
after the wildfire, so those that you're interested in visiting

(01:50:56):
going up in that neck of the woods. And of
course my very feature your guest tonight, Barney Adams from
Breakthrough Golf, thank you very much for joining me but
sure I really appreciate it. And for those of you
that want to tune in and watch the show afterwards
if you go to I Golf Sports YouTube channel or
on Spotify, and if you want to listen to just

(01:51:16):
to the audio version, you can go to spreaker dot
com or basically wherever you listen to podcasts. You can
check out this episode here. But on that note, I
will see you guys next week right here on Golf
Talk Live. God bless everybody and have a great weekend.

Speaker 6 (01:51:33):
Thanks for joining us.

Speaker 3 (01:51:34):
We hope you enjoyed this week's broadcast of Golf Talk Live.

Speaker 1 (01:51:38):
We'd like to thank this week's Coaches Corner panel and
a special thank you to tonight's guest. Remember to join
Ted every Thursday from six to eight pm Central on
Golf Talk Live, and be sure to follow Ted on Facebook, Twitter.

Speaker 6 (01:51:51):
And Instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:51:53):
If you're interested in being a guest on Golf Talk Live,
send Ted an email it Ted.

Speaker 3 (01:51:58):
Dot golf talk Live a mail dot com. This has
been a production of the I Golf Sports Network

Speaker 6 (01:52:13):
M

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Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 15 | June 26th, 2025

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 15 | June 26th, 2025