Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 16 | July 10th, 2025 - Golf Talk Live

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
The following broadcast is brought to you by the I
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(00:32):
the game's most in depth instruction magazine, including reviews on
the latest equipment, tips from top teaching professionals, all designed
to help you improve from tee to green. Welcome to
Golf Talk Live with your host Ted oto Rico. Join
Ted each week as he speaks with some of the
best in golf. This week's special guest will join us

(00:52):
a bit later. But first up is another great discussion
on Coach's Corner, So let's introduce tonight's Coaches Corner Panel.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
All right, good evening, everybody, and welcome to Season thirteen
a Golf Talk Live. I'm your host, Ted rod Rico.
We've got a great show for tonight, starting this week,
of course, with another great discussion on the Coach's Corner panel.
And I've got two great pros, John Hughes and Jamie
Leno z Imron and a little bit later on in
the broadcast, gonna be joined by tonight's featured guest, Jeffrey Scosh.
He is the chief operating officer of Shipsticks. He's gonna

(01:25):
be joining me on the second half of the show,
so you want to make sure you stick around for that.
I want to remember remind everybody, excuse me, to remember
to check out all our previously aired shows now available
on the I Golf Sports YouTube channel Spotify in both
audio and video format, or you can also visit spreaker
dot com or wherever you typically listen to the audio version.
You can do that pretty much anywhere podcasts are played.

(01:47):
But don't forget to subscribe to our channels and get
notified as we add new episodes each and every week.
So let me bring the guys on here, introduce him,
and then we'll get into tonight's discussion. So first up,
of course, as John Hughes is a a PJ Master
professional and the past president of the North Florida PJ
Section and the twenty thirteen PJA of America Professional Development
Award recipient in twenty two thousand nine, excuse me, twenty

(02:10):
twenty three, he was a North Florida PJA teacher and
Coach of the Year, and he's a Golf Digest Best
in State instructor from twenty twenty three to present, and
he was also a or. Is also a senior contributing
editor and a top twenty five instructor with Golf Tips Magazine.
Also on the panel tonight is Jamie lenol Zimron. She's
a Class A LPJA teach professional and a sixth degree

(02:31):
I Keto black belt. She's a somatic psychologist, a corporate speaker,
and mind Body fitness trainer. She also graduated Phi Beta
Kappa from Stanford University, and she is the creator of
the Key I Golf Centered Way. So, Jamie and John,
welcome to Golf Talk Lives Coaches Corner.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Thank you, Hello, Honor to be Ye, good to see
you and great to be with you again. John, and
thank you. Jed.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
You're welcome. So Jamie, I gotta ask you. You've got
so many beautiful colors in there behind you. Are you
down in Mexico still? I know you went down there
here recently.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
I am in Mexico and this is a new house.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Very Mexican, very festive color. So yeah, it's Beestive.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
It's a festive place, which is a nice place to
be these days. But you know, I'm back and forth
the States and get to Europe. I kind of get around.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, yeah, you travel a lot, I know that for sure.
So all right, so we're gonna talk about tonight the bunkers,
and I've got this is actually pertaining to an article
I'm gonna be doing here. Hopefully I'll have it up
this weekend on Golf Tips at mag dot com, our
our website. And these are the three hardest bunker shots.
There are the high lip, the plugged lie, and the

(03:41):
severely downhill bunker shot. They require specific techniques to overcome
challenging conditions and could be particularly difficult for even some
of the most experienced golfers. So here's what we're gonna do.
I'm gonna give sort of a challenge to each of
you and we're going to talk about that, and then
I want you to sort of dive somewhat deep into
it with what club selection you typically would recommend for this,

(04:06):
and how are you're going to set up And I
know we don't have the visual here for you to
actually get out and demonstrate it, but I think you
can give it a pretty good idea and then if
you want to give sort of a follow up summary.
So John, I'm coming to you buddy first, and we're
going to do the high lip bunker shot. So basically,
the high lip bunker shot is difficult because the lip
of the bunker obstructs the swing path and makes it
hard to get the ball out of the sand. So

(04:26):
typically you might see this in a scenario where the
lip might be not just high up, but sometimes on
an elevated green, so you're deep down in the bunker,
you got this high lip to get over just to
get safely on the green. Sometimes it could even be
a fair way bunker can do that. So I want
you to talk about the technique and then maybe just
give us a summary. What are you going to do here?

(04:46):
How are you going to handle this with your student
and get them to make sure that they're going to
be successful in getting out.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
So, first off, thanks Ted as always for the opportunity. Jamie,
great to finally see you versus hear you. If you
just made my dinner plans that much easier. Talking about Mexico,
there's a process to this and The first thing is
make sure your liability insurance is paid. Second thing is

(05:14):
to make sure you have a ladder, and the third
thing is to take it unplayable before you kill yourself. Right, Really,
when you've got this kind of lie, I see people
where the superintendent's got to come in and rebuild a
bunker the following day because they're doing everything. They're hitting
the end of the lip, they're hitting into the side,

(05:37):
they're trying to stand on the side like they're Superman
or Batman holding on to the bat rail or whatever.
You've got to simplify all three of these situations and
realize what is my least penal situation, which is why
I said, do you take the unplayable? I think you

(05:58):
have to look at all three of these based on
your skill level and determine, hey, am I better off
hacking at this two, three, maybe even four times or
take the unplayable and what does that unplayable provide me?
And I think that's one of the things that an
amateur totally forgets about. It is something that a touring
pro is obviously thinking about. They may not be saying

(06:21):
it out loud for the cameras to get it, but
they're probably thinking about it in here and with their caddy.
Should you decide to take on this mission, Jim, and
this tab will self destruct here in a little bit.
How do you set this up? It's all about maintaining
your balance. It's all about where do I put myself

(06:42):
in this situation where I can make a fair swing
at the ball. Keep my balance because without the balance,
I'm not going to be able to accelerate into the sand.
And that's the real key here. Be ready for it,
not to clear your lip based on where you are.
The might be, Hey, I'm trying to hit it out
and if it goes backwards and I got another play,

(07:04):
that's great. But again that's why I'm thinking maybe take
the unplayable. It's about balance, it's about ball position, and
it's not about opening the golf club. When you open
that golf club and the bounce is going to bounce
off the sand, we're wanting that club to dig into
the sand and take as much explosion up and over

(07:25):
that lift as possible when you're not set up to
do that, And I would say that's the key. It's
not about overswinging, it's about where that club's going to
come in behind the ball, below the ball and for
you to maintain enough balance just to swing through to
get the ball propelled. But I honestly think in most
skill levels you have to consider what the rules are

(07:48):
going to provide you, and if that unplayable gets you
off the hill on a flatter lie and all of
a sudden, I've got a better shot at it. It's
a lot better than calling the superintendent up apologizing that
he needs a truckload to sam the next game.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah. I love the analogies, you know, And there's a
couple well said. There's a couple of things too also
that I like to consider is where is the ball
position is actually into the lip? Is it, you know,
far enough back that you have some room to clear it?
And the other thing I want now, I didn't say

(08:29):
it was in the lip. I just said it was
a high lip bunker shot. But that's okay. There's a
lot of different variables, of course, and I get that
you gave us one. The other thing to quickly just
to consider though, guys, is this is you have to
look at the situation from the standpoint as well. Is
how is it set up? Where where's the bunker in
relation to the green, is it dead center in the green,

(08:50):
is it off to one side where maybe there's a
lot of green to the left of that bunker that
you could maybe play it onto the green and avoid
a lot of the hype. You may not get clear
at all, but you may be avoid some of the heights.
So you have to look at a lot of different
factors could be in there to do that. Just because
the pins right behind where the highest part of the
lip is doesn't mean you need to go for the
pen pin excuse me, and go for the fat part

(09:11):
of the green. So there's a lot of variables that
that definitely need to be there. But you're exactly right,
you know, amateurs need to really I think it boils
down to assessment, and that's really going to be sort
of the underlying topic here is assess the situation based
on your abilities currently, not what you hope to be
or what maybe happened one or two times in previous rounds.

(09:31):
You have to look at your overall ability and what
the percentage in likelihood that you're going to be excessively
going to execute this shot. Otherwise, as you said, you
need to maybe take an apply playable excuse me, but
well said, you're you're exactly.

Speaker 4 (09:44):
Rightliable too if you.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Want yeah to ngun tied tonight. So Jamie, your your
situation here I'm going to give you is now a
plugged lie And this is obviously where the bearer the
ball has gotten plugged into the the sand a little bit.
This incurred obviously when it's buried now it makes it
difficult sometimes to make clean contact and actually lift the

(10:07):
ball out. So give us again. You can take whatever
scenario you want. There's obviously a lot of variables here,
but typically how are you going to handle this? How
are you going to talk about club selection? Let's talk
a little bit about the bounce in a shot like this,
what you know when and how it gets engaged, how
much that sort of thing, and then the swing. Is
there gonna be any changes you know that you might

(10:27):
want them to incorporate in the swing. But give me
your thoughts on this and see if we can help
some folks out there get out of a plug line
a bunker.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well, I'm gonna going to think of a kind of
specific situation, and that is a ball that it flies
in and the bunker, you know, has an uphill getting
out of the bunker, so you're you know, and the
ball comes like this and it plugs there. Yeah, it
doesn't just roll back down, so you have some kind
of a normal, shall we say, bunker shot. But if

(10:57):
the ball's plugged and it's in the sand and sometimes
you can hardly even see it. This was fascinating to
me to learn this shot, which is why I want
to talk about it, because you know, people kind of
call like this and try to lift it or you know,
what do you do? And unplayable is certainly an option,
particularly for you know, mid to high handicappers who in general,

(11:21):
it's a generalization, but aren't very comfortable in bunkers, you know,
and they end up kind of doing the old hand
wedge right, throw it out. But if you're going to
be become a you know, twenty handicapper or less, I
think it's really important to to work on your bunker
play and your technique. So here we have this ball
that's plugged in the sand kind on that south hill,

(11:44):
and it's a very counterintuitive shot, and this technique actually works.
It's a specific technique you're both probably familiar with it,
which is you get your wedge and it should have
a good. You know, edge on it because it's an
have to cut into the sand and you want to
really shut the face down, hold on, get as as

(12:07):
good a balance as you can, knowing that you're probably
going to fall back and that's okay, but for impact,
you really want to have those knees flexed kind of
white stands, dig in and you know, try to hold
your balance as much as possible. But it's a Steve
takeaway and it's really this is the chop shot, and
I would say probably the only chop shot I really
know of in golf. I'm not a big advocate of

(12:28):
chop shots. Sometimes maybe in a long grass, but anyways,
steep up and bam, just slice down into the into
the sand and that steep down pops the ball up.
And I think it's worth it for listeners here, for
any player. But if people listening, try that shot, go
on a bunker. These are this is the type of

(12:50):
stuff I do in my trouble shot school. At schools,
we just get into trouble. We get in all these
shots that you don't want to play, that you're afraid of,
that you're nervous about that, Yeah, you know, you just
don't know what to do or you're very uncomfortable, and
those are the ones we have to practice a little bit.
So again, buried in the sand, plugged on the uphill,

(13:10):
and the green's right there. Even this tip shot, you
just really want to get out and shut the face down,
steep up, and you really use your might. Again, I'm
usually not for force. It's just a lot of force.
I'm much more of a temple advocate that this is
one where you're just going to really chop down and

(13:31):
it's incredible how that will pop the ball up. And
I think it a person needs to practice it to
prove to themselves that that works because it is so counterintuitive.
So you're shaking your head a little bit, John, wonder
what your thoughts are on that show.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
Well, my first thought is I'm finally happy to see
your hand gestures as you're describing this, because it's perfect
as far as closing the face and popping it up.
It's exactly what I teach my clients. Well, a long,
long time ago, about twenty five years or so ago,
I worked for a school where Phil Ritzon's name was

(14:07):
on it, and we were forced to teach the ice
cream scoop shot, which is a much more difficult execution
and what you're describing because it was closed forty five degrees,
the face was literally facing me and very much trying
to scoop it. That will work unless you're going to

(14:30):
practice it a lot. And that's the other thing you
mentioned is you got to get in there and try it.
You have to get in there, be willing to take
the risk, conquer the fear, and just do it. The
other thing I'm always telling my clients is because it's
very that's not your fault. It just isn't the ball

(14:51):
came in with the wrong spin, the wrong trajectory, angle
in whatever it is. I think most of the fear
and most of the anxiety people with a shot is
they're so pissed that they've got a very lie that's
not their fault. They can't go about their problem solving.
And what Jamie says is absolutely true. How much can

(15:13):
you make that blade of the of the wedge dig deep,
steady with some force and it pops it right up?

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, it's steady in there. That's important too. That just steady, hard,
clear down is for me as a martial artist, it's
like breaking a board, you know, when you got to
get you can't go like this or it's like you
got to mean it, just do it and again practice
it proved to yourself that it works. Uh. And it

(15:45):
came from came up for me once in tournament play
where I had that situation and I had worked on
it enough and played around with it just practice rounds
or whatever, fun rounds, and I was like, I gotta
do it. This is this is it, and I could
trust it because I did know that it worked and
sure enough popped right out, popped out on the green.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Jiman, Let me just follow up with that a little
bit because I want to make sure that the listeners
and that understand is so on this particular shot, there's
not going to be as opposed to a typical bunker shop,
not as much of a follow through. In fact, it's
it's more coming and hitting in behind the ball, and
it's an abbreviated I mean, there is going to be
obviously some just because of momentum and that, but you're
not going to follow through like you with a typical

(16:24):
bunker shot, where you're going to finish to a high,
high finish, so you're actually going to come into the ball,
pop it out and then with an abbreviated follow Well, you're.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
Chopping down, so it's not going to have a follow through.
You're going to be kind of chopped and stuck in
the sand with the club for the most part in
amazement as the ball shoots.

Speaker 5 (16:42):
Up on you.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah. I just want to make sure people understood that,
because again, a lot of people when they hear that,
they don't think and think, Okay, I've got to chop down.
But then I got to make sure because they've always
been told with bunker shots you got to make three
sure you follow through, and so I just want to
make sure that they understand that. But a great answer,
a great explanation. Yeah, I love that. The the hand
gestures as well. I think people can relate to that. Yeah,
exactly exactly, and little martial arts in there too. It

(17:09):
never hearts. Sometimes you might need that martial arts just
to get out of the sand. So, uh, whatever whatever
works for you. But yeah, exactly, All right, John, this
is one here I'm going to come back to you
on and actually, Jamie, I'll let you share some thoughts
afterwards as well if you want to. Uh, this is

(17:29):
a severely downhill bunker shot, and this is where obviously
that the ball is typically in the back of the
bunker downhill now you know it could be it doesn't
matter how don't even have to be green side. But
it's just a tough, tough shot, very easy to hit
shots fat. There's a lot of factors involved in how

(17:49):
we set up with this and everything from our shoulders
and club and also let's walk through this little bit John,
and then as I said, Jamie, if you want to
add some thoughts after, by all means go ahead, but John,
go ahead and walk do this so that we got
a downhill, severely downhill bunker shot.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
To deal with what we do you're talking earlier about assessment.
I think at this point you have to assess where
that ball is in relation to where the ball needs
to land on the green, and if there's a significant
amount of length ten yards, twenty yards, whatever it is
based on your skill, that's the first assessment because that's

(18:27):
going to tell you whether you're going to leave it
in a bunker or not, and whether you should be
taking the unplayable lie. Unfortunately, from this your unplayable lie
might not be better. You can't move it forward, you
can only move it a couple of club lengths will
that actually flatten it out. So this is the one
of the scenarios, the one and only scenario where the

(18:50):
unplayable might not be the best way. The other thing
I want you to think about, and this is something
that Chuck Cook, one of my mentors, does on a
weekly basis with his clinics, is he'll take the beginners,
take buckets and buckets coach of coaching, buckets of balls
and throw it out on the front of the range

(19:10):
that's downhill and give everybody the most lofty club in
their bag and say, you know what, let's get it
up in the air. And that's the way he teaches
forward shaftling. That's the way he teaches beginner ball striking.
And that's really what we're talking about here, is ken
you set up on that hill with the ball position

(19:30):
far enough back to where a you're not going to
clip the ball like you would say off of a
grassy lie that you're actually going to come down in
that same low point that you would, and then measure
the ball slightly forward from there. I think that's where
most average amateurs high handicappers. Your ability to control low

(19:54):
point is what makes you the higher handicapper. So understanding
where this is, and what I'd recommend to someone, quite honestly,
is get out of the bunker, try to recreate the
same lie, the same angle, and now let's swing down
that hill and let's find out where that club strikes

(20:14):
the ground and relationship to where your two feet are.
That's hopefully where you're gonna strike the sand. You're trying
to put the ball slightly forward to that, and then
when you get in the bunker. The only difference is
you don't need to close the club faces as Jamie
and I had said with the Buried Lie. You don't

(20:34):
need to open up the club super either, because when
you do that, this club is going to bounce because
of the angle of the sandy. Just a slight opening
is all you need, and it's gonna come out lower.
You're gonna have to take If your normal sand wedge
is fifty six, take the sixty. If it's sixty and
you got it sixty four, take the sixty four because

(20:57):
as you're going down this hill, you're d loft the
club and the ball is going to come out flatter.
And that's why I started with the assessment. You have
to literally stand to the side almost profile it and
figure out how where's that trajectory going to come out
and will I have enough room to swing with enough
force to carry the distance onto the green. Final thing,

(21:21):
realize that if you pull this off getting close to
the hole that's icing on the cake, it's probably going
to run by. There's going to be very little, very
little spin on this unless you're an elite touring pro
and you know you've practiced this over and over and
over again. Because it's coming out low. Whatever spin that's
on there, it's not going to have enough trajectory to grab.

(21:44):
So just go ahead and plan for it to go.
Buy a close pin. If you've got a far pin,
more power to you.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's an excellent point because again, not only
do you need to make sure you're going to be
able to carry all of the bunker and get it
out and get it on you know, hopefully on the green,
but yeah, if you've got a tight pin or very
little green to work with, that's going to be a
very tricky shot. And you know it might be something
where again that unplayable comes in, or another option may

(22:14):
come in where you may have to even hit out
to the side and just take you know your lumps
and do it that way, because again, it's a hard
enough shot even for some of the best players out there,
and a lot of people if they're not set up properly.
I mean, we've seen thin shots, we've seen fat shots,
all kinds of bad shots, and again it's because they're
not planning to the execution properly, but more importantly, they're

(22:38):
not planning ahead of actually the shot. What is the
likelihood I'm going to be able to pull this off?
Never mind hitting the perfect shot, but what are the
parameters that I'm looking at? What are the areas I'm
looking at? How much green do I have to work with?
How much bunker do I have to clear? Those things
points that you put out there, John, which which are excellent.
Thank you for that. And again the club face plays

(22:59):
a big role and working with the slope as opposed
to against Jamie. Any any thoughts you want to add
to this as well? I think John covered a lot.
But if there's anything you want to touch on, by
all means, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, he covered a lot. It is one of the
most unhappy kind of situations to be in downhill or
downhill side hill, bunker shot is not really where you
want to be. Sometimes it's worth it to get it out,
get it out in the grass, get it on the green.
It would be the and you know, hopefully then you
can maybe one putt it would be like or maybe

(23:30):
two putt. If you think that you try to get
it out. Sometimes it'll even plug. You know it's flying
out and it'll plug up there. Now you're double a stock,
or you don't get it out and at least you
have a decent shot in the middle of the bunker.
But then you're still back to get it on the
green or get it out even and you could end
up with three four extra shots. So sometimes it's worth

(23:53):
it just get out and get on the green and
two put or one putt, So you have to kind
of think of it that way. The core management. One
thing that comforts me in if I'm in that situation
and you know, going with the slope, is that there
is some room until for the ball to be in
the air until it comes out. That means it's going
to have some loft, so hopefully it will clear and

(24:16):
you'll be okay because you have some room for it
to rise. I just wanted to give a couple other
kind of situations to think about. Well, one thing is
if we remember when we used to have sand wedges,
now we have sixties fifty six is the sort of thing,
and a sand wedge had more loft. So usually we're
hitting a sixty even a sixty four out of the

(24:38):
bunker and those will come up and out and they'll
tend to have some spin. So when you're in the
front part of the bunker, play it in the front
part of your stands and it's like hitting a driver.
You put it in the front of your stands so
that you're hitting on the upswing, so that you'll get
the ball in the air and you can clear better
on that downhill. It's a little different, and you may

(25:01):
want to take like a fifty six or something and
it'll get some loft, but it'll have more distance that
it can carry.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
I was.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
I was in Saint Andrews in May and last year
actually at Royal Port Rush where they're playing the Open
next week. And until you've been in a pot bunker
and we see them on TV, they're really constructed in
a different way than most of our bunkers in America,
and so you're looking at a wall. You know, it's

(25:31):
like and I can remember one time definitely having me
to decide, you know what, where I didn't even have
where I couldn't possibly get it up because I'm going
to hit a wall. Don't hardly have a backswing if
I turn this way or that way. You just got
to kind of find where you get enough of a
swing to get out, and you'll have to go sideways,
sometimes backwards. You just do what you got to do

(25:51):
to deal with those situations and get the ball out.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well said, and you know, I think what it is, guys,
is this is you know, we off and talk about
the very simple bunker shots, and bunker shots can be
relatively easy, some of the standard ones that we see.
If you look at the pros uh and and how
you know, they say they would rather have a shot
out of the bunker in many cases than some of
the other uh, you know, difficult lies that they may

(26:17):
be faced with. But the average you know, amateur out
there definitely is not able to handle these very very
well and often struggle with that and don't use the
always of the best judgment. So I think it's important
that both of you sort of sort of laid out
that it's it's important to assess everything first before you
just step into the bunker and think, Okay, I'm going

(26:38):
to hit this shot, because I think once you do
that and you have a little bit of clarity, and
hopefully the guys you're playing with are smart enough to say, hey,
you know, Bob, maybe this isn't the best shot for
you based on how you're playing today, and that's something
you can go and practice another time and hopefull they're
going to encourage you to do the smarter play. But
so there's a lot of you hang on with. See

(26:59):
that there's a lot of diferent bunker shots that are
very tricky. These are just three of the really hard ones,
I think, But generally, for the most part, I think
bunkers can be pretty easy. But Jamie Stark, go ahead
and finch your thought.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
I did want to say that I think a lot
of amateurs, even some fairly low handicappers, don't They can't
imagine how a pro would want to be in a
bunker or prefer to be in a bunker, And some
of the grass around a bunker, it's like, why would
you want to be in a bunker? They really so
many people can't handle bunkers or mentally can't handle bunkers.

(27:35):
They're like, oh, you know, like this, And so I
think it's really important for players to practice just the standard,
typical bunker shot until they feel comfortable with that shot,
that they can be in a bunker, mental of a bunker,
look forward in a bunk or whatever, and feel pretty
confident that they can get out and even get on decently.

(27:58):
I think most amateurs kind of gauck at the pros,
like how do they do that? And how do they
do that so well and so consistently, because once in
a while maybe they'll hit a good bunker shot, but
sometimes they won't. They can't get out, or they all
of a sudden hit it twenty yards over the green.
They just don't know what's going to happen. So I
just want to say, practicing a standard fair bunker shot

(28:21):
and gaining some confidence with that, I think is going
to pay off the most for most players.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeahs, yeah, in all of them. And it all boils
down to this, is you have to get out there
and practice them. And again, Jenna, I like what you
talked about earlier too, is you don't get out of
the bunker and just find a spot on the fairway
or on the range maybe that has a bit of
a downslope and if you were going to practice that
and just learning to make good contact with the ball

(28:48):
and then you can take it into the bunker and
do it there. Sometimes the sand alone is very intimidating
to a lot of people because they don't know how
to play it. So if you're able to hit you know,
downhill side hill uphill shots out of the bunker, it
gives you a little bit of confidence. And yeah, there
may be some tweaks and adjustments that might need to
be made, but it gives you a better understanding of
how to work the slopes and things like that. And

(29:09):
that's something a lot of people don't do because everybody's
so used to hitting it off perfectly flat lies out
of the driving range and then they get out in
the real course and they start thinking, wow, I never
can get faced with a shot like this, and they
don't know what to do. So, like I said, these
are really some of the tougher ones that typically do
a couple other things. John, I'm gonna come to you
real quick for this is one of the other things

(29:29):
that we haven't talked about yet, is that is the
texture of the sand. Jamie sort of alluded to some
of the pot bunkers over in Europe, And I'll let
you talk about that in a moment, Jamie, but a
little bit more. But this is something too that has
to be considered because regardless of where you are in
the country, the sand is different. You know, down here
in Florida and some of the southern states, the sand

(29:50):
is different than what you might find up in the Northeast,
or even out in California or in the Northwest, you
know whatever, or in the desert. You know, there's different textures.
Touch on that a little bit, and those things have
to be factored in as well.

Speaker 4 (30:01):
Right they do. And and a comical example is if
I come see you in destin, Florida and we sit
out on the beach, the sand that I wash out
of my trousers there is going to feel a lot
different than the stuff I get in New smer of Beach,
a lot different.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Thanks thanks for the visual.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
What your your point is well taken. Let let me
go back real quick, and to Jamie's point that you
don't practice these crazy lies enough. What if all you
did was practice these lies outside the bunker and use
those standards when you're in the bunker with a little

(30:42):
tweak here and there. That and that goes to your
point that we're always we're always coaching on perfect lies
or on mats or whatever. If you can adjust right away,
do something that you're out of the bunker, and yet
use that same stand in the bunker with a couple
of tweaks to make sure your feet are solid or

(31:04):
to adjust for some balance. That's really as simple as
it gets from a sand texture standpoint of view. Now
we're talking about how the club interacts with the ground.
Where your low point should be. How much sand are
you gonna take and not take? What's that club gonna
do as it strikes the sand and goes through the sand.

(31:27):
As a general rule, wet compact, hard sand, You're probably
not gonna want to open up that club a lot
and have a lot of bounce, because, as the name suggests,
the club's gonna bounce off that hard compact and hit
the ball. The visual I'll give you is put a

(31:47):
ball on a piece of cement or on the road,
open up your sand wedge, and then try to take
a piece of the road. It's gonna be tough to do,
and that club's gonna bounce up and hit the ball
you want to close the club. What I recommend to
people is just keep it square. You still need a
little bit of that balance to glide it through. It's

(32:10):
not as hard as the cement or the tarmac, but
it's gonna need some glide, very much like a snowplow
is going to glide through the top sheet of the
ice and get rid of the rest of the rest
of the snow on the road. So when you open
this up, not good. When you're digging, that's not good.
You can get into a worse situation than Jamie had

(32:33):
explained with the buried lie. I've actually seen people bury
a ball that way. So the hard the more compact,
you're looking at probably an entry point, say half of
what it normally is. If you're normally trying to hit
behind the ball two inches, maybe it's an inch, And
that's going to depend on the conditions, and you have

(32:55):
to take every condition for what it's worth. We go
the opposite way, you know, very nice fine powdery sand.
We're gonna need more bounce, We're gonna need more opportunity
for that club to glide through the sand. If you
leave the club square or just barely open, it's gonna
start digging on it, and that's what's gonna slow things down.

(33:18):
Instead of taking enough sand to create a nice little
pillow and the pillow explodes it out. Now you got
a whole mattressful of sand, and that's not gonna work.
What you're also looking to do is, when we've said
this a couple of different times, the club's got to
get all the way through. It can't stop, and with dry, fluffy,

(33:38):
powdery sand, there's no reason for it to stop other
than you stopped it. You tried to do something you
didn't have to do. I think what it all boils
down to, though I said this earlier, most high handicappers
of a very difficult time controlling low point. I think
that's something you've got to start doing and trusting for

(34:01):
you to walk into a bunker and trust yourself more.
I'm always telling my clients, especially higher handicappers, what comes
first trust your confidence. Trust always comes first before the confidence.
And if you can't walk into a situation and have
some trust, you'll never have the confidence. You'll always doubt yourself.
It's just a matter of experience. Jamie's got a ton

(34:22):
of experience. You have a ton of experience. I have
a ton of experience. How do we gain that? We
gained it by going in and doing it and trying
it and learning from our failures. And to Jamie's point,
why do pros want to get in the bunker? They
fail less there than, say, in four inches of fescue,
and that is that that's a good point, Jamie, that

(34:47):
that would I'd rather have four inches of fiscu versus sand.
Guess what, I'm going to hit that four inches of
fescue just like I hit a bunker shot, because that's
the only way to get it out.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, well said, and Jamie, I want to get you
to touch on a couple of things. I mean, you
mentioned earlier about some of the bunkers, and I want
to focus now, you know, overseas a little bit, you know,
as a lot of people now are starting to travel more,
whether it be to Saint Andrew's, you know, other courses
over in Europe where you know, it's a little bit

(35:20):
different than what we typically have here, and there's not
just a situation where you might be facing with the wall,
but they have a lot of grass bunkers as well.
That can be a little gnarly to deal with, and
a lot of people don't know how to handle that.
So how do we handle a grass bunker? I mean,
that's a whole different kettle fit. Now we don't even
have sand to deal with. Now we got some gnarly

(35:40):
grass that's in sort of a bunker that the designer
has thrown in there just to add insult to injury.
So give us an example of what we need to
do and what we might be faced with there.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
I think the real insult is when you have that
long fescue hair around the bunker, and so you're you're
in sort of sandy terrain in this long grass, and
you're just like, oh no, what do I do? Something
that John started with, there's a word that's just critical,
and that word is balance. Balance is absolutely essential if

(36:15):
you're going to hope to make some decent contact with
the ball and move it. So and another thing that
I just want to say is that and goes back
a little bit too, looking at the kind of sand
or you know, what sand are you dealing with? That
we tend to look and rely on our eyes to
assess and I think it's also important. I call it

(36:37):
use your shoes or use your feet. And when you're
kind of digging in, you can feel how deep is
this sand? Am I hitting some hardpan? There's maybe there's
an inch of sand, but oh I'm hitting some hardpan.
That's going to be very important information when you're bringing
the club down and trying to get through, so you know,
the stability factor is really important so that you can

(36:59):
control the impact of the club and it keeps some
steadiness in your hands and in the club so that
you can make some decent contact and you've got to
get through the grass. Right For me, it sometimes there
are depends on the situation. There haven't situations where it

(37:21):
feels like, oh I need to shut the club down
a little bit and really kind of come down and
again have that come down, pop the ball up. It's
like my Buddhist rule of golf is I stay down,
ball go up, and I come up. All stay down.
That's a general rule, all right. Yeah, So but sometimes

(37:44):
the club's faces down, bring it down, and it's going
to send it out of that long grass because it's
difficult to get through the grass. And so instead of
trying to get through it so much, and you do
have to get through the grass, that's for sure. So
sometimes having the club more open and getting a little
bit underneath it come down hard, but with the open

(38:06):
club face and some effort to get the ball up.
But you really got to stay with these shots. Deceleration
and you're dead. I mean, that's just a general rule.
I would say. You've got to hold your stance and
really hold the impact get through that ball. That's absolutely essential,
I would say. And you know, and sometimes the sand

(38:29):
technique will work with the bounce, you know, open club
face and kind of get down their bounce and it
can come up. So I think these are things that
you kind of have to practice, actually, and there are
some variations and situations. And I also find that there
are variations in preference, and sometimes that is related to

(38:50):
your body. You know, you may have trouble with your elbows,
you may have trouble with your wrists. So I got
to play this kind of shot, I can't do that shot.
So I think that again there's no substitute for practice,
for experimentation and finding out what works. And you know,
looking at some of the guidelines, what exactly is the train,
how tells the grass how wet is the grass. If

(39:10):
that long grass is wet, that's going to require even
more balance, even more getting through that grass and holding
holding your stability and needing some power. You do need
some strength to get through these things.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah, well said, and I think what what you know,
Really what we're talking about here is obviously everybody is
going to handle the shots differently, begin based on your
body type and things like that. That really what we're
talking about is just some general guidelines things to go by. Again,
some modifications may be needed in some cases depending on

(39:46):
the circumstances, because no two lies are exactly the same.
So I think once you once you realize that. But
it's really just to give you a guide to say, Okay,
this is what I need to do, and I might
have to modify it slightly for me based on my
swing and my abilities as you said, Jamie, with with
different situations of the body. But at least I have
a guide, a starting place, if you will. And to

(40:09):
just sort of put a final point on it is
you need to let learn to let the club do
what it's designed to do. A lot of people try
to force the issue. They try to scoop as I
think John you were talking about earlier, and you as well, Jamie,
like ice cream scoop sort of thing. Uh, the club
is designed to do a certain job. You need to
let it do that. We just have to orchestrate it
to get it in the right position each time. And

(40:31):
once we're able to do that, the jub the club
will essentially do most of the work itself. We just
need to give it a little bit of help once
in a while. But I think it's you know, it's
interesting because I wanted to talk about this because it's
these are bunker shots as an example that we covered
here tonight, that really don't get talked a lot about
in conversations like this. We talk about general rules of

(40:52):
bunker but these are bunker shots that people are always
going to get faced with at some point, may only
have one around, but still it's nice to know I
have a guideline to work with and how to handle
some of these things. So we got to wrap up,
but I want to thank you guys for joining me,
and as always, I'm going to give you guys a
quick opportunity if you want to promote anything and let
the folks know if they want to reach out, So John,

(41:12):
I'm going to go in order, John and then Jamie.

Speaker 4 (41:14):
Sure again, Ted. Always a pleasure and I appreciate the opportunity.
It's an opportunity to share, give back. It's an opportunity
to spend time with you again, Jamie. You and I
have got to get our hand signals together and this
way we can communicate between here in Mexico. And the

(41:36):
one thing I'm going to have the next time is
more color in the back, so she's not offsetting my shirt,
but true. To get a hold of me, it's John
Hughes Golf. Whether it's a hashtag and ampersam dot com,
whatever it is, that's the way to find me. Two
things I want to plug next Tuesday is my on

(41:59):
part with John Hughes. Got with John Hughes Golf Live
app stream every third Tuesday of the month. Golf Live,
one of my partners, I'm an ambassador of THEIRS, has
provided me the opportunity to live stream a video show,
go through some of the things we're actually talking about,

(42:20):
set up on a golf course and do it. Next
week we're going to be featuring the top tracer technology
that's at my facility on me Orlando Resorted champions Gate
and how that can intertwine with some virtual coaching. I
also want to plug that homestead and for all you
people looking for homestead behind me, sorry, there is a glitch.

(42:44):
And with that glitch, can't see homestead behind me. Maybe
I'll get a picture. Ted's already working on that. But
I'm back at Homestead October ninth through the seventeenth. If
you want to come see me there for private instruction,
whether it's a full day golf school, whatever it is.
And only Ted knows what we're talking about, so don't

(43:05):
worry about it. And I hope you come see me there.
More to announce as the summer.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Goes perfect sounds good, and Jamie, go ahead. How can
the folks reach out? And if there's anything quickly that
you'd like to plug by all means.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Go ahead, Yeah, emails great, Jamie, j A M. I
E at the Centeredway dot com center ed the centered
Way dot Com. And I always say that I like
to talk. As you can see, I like to talk
to people, so texting or calling works. That could be
on phone or plus one for what's app plus one

(43:37):
seven six Oho four nine two Golf four six five
three and no problem from Mexico. Also, since the pandemic,
I've been doing a lot more coaching and teaching online,
which has been wonderful. Work a lot on Zoom. It
doesn't take me. It takes me one or two swings,
and I can tell you right away, give you a
swing analysis. I know just pretty well what we need

(43:59):
to work on, and most people need to understand matter
their footwork and golf, how to use their lower body,
get the lower and upper body connected, what's the sources
of power in their body to get their energy from
their body into their swing and into the golf ball.
So I actually really love this kind of coaching. And
you know, I've got some room outside we can work easily.

(44:22):
So yeah, that's that's great. I travel quite a bit.
If anybody wants to get in touch, I'm velble like
I do lessons on the road and I do set
up some clinics and that sort of thing. Next fall,
I am just starting out to put together a group
of a dozen and it could be men and women,
not only uh, not only women, singles, couples, and that

(44:44):
is to go to the LPJ Solheim Cup. It's going
to be outside of Amsterdam next fall and I've got
an exciting sort of program and group and we'll play
a couple of rounds of golf, we'll be at the
Solheim Cup, we'll do some sight seeing in Amsterdam and
that sort of stuff. So if anybody's interested in please
do contact me. And I've been working on a book
and we're working at getting it finally out. And there's

(45:06):
a wonderful big section on golf k I Golf Centered Golf,
and that will be coming out I hope by the fall,
and of course my DVD series and there's there's stuff online,
so just get in touch.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Hey, sounds good. Well, guys, again, thank you very much
for joining me on the Coach's Corner panel. As always,
thank you for bringing your best and doing a great job.
I'm gonna take a quick commercial break and when i
come back, I'm gonna be joined by tonight's featured guest.

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Speaker 2 (46:44):
Welcome back, everybody, and I'm excited to have tonight's featured
guest Jeffrey Scoch. He is the chief operating officer for
Shipsticks and he significantly has contributed to their operational excellence
and grows since joining as the fourth employee back in
twenty thirteen and becoming the CEO in twenty fourteen. His
prior experience includes managing Aberdeen LLC, which he oversaw golf

(47:09):
courses and successfully hosted the Corn Ferry Tour in Cleveland,
enhancing local golf tourism. His expertise and logistics and financial
management has been pivotal in strengthening the company's operational capabilities,
and just on an educational note, he holds a BS
from Cleveland State University. So very well educated man, Very
nice guest, and glad to have him join me tonight.

(47:31):
So Jeff Welcome back to Golf Talk Live.

Speaker 5 (47:35):
Yeah, thanks for having me. Looking forward to the conversation.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
I appreciate it. So travel, we're kind of in the
thick of travel season right now. We're going to get
into some specifics that, but just what was sort of
the premise why do you think, you know, shipsticks sort
of came about? What was the PI because I mean obviously,
you know, you can ship things with all kinds of
different carriers and things like that, and we're getting into
a little deeper dive in a moment, but what was

(48:00):
sort of the concept behind why did this sort of begin?
What was the thought in putting ship Stick together.

Speaker 5 (48:05):
Yeah, you know, the concepts from our founders really came about,
you know, for the ease of use and you know,
being able to really travel from you know, one stop
to multiple stops without the hassles of having to lug
your golf clubs, you know, through the airports and with

(48:25):
the airlines and so you know, obviously you always have
had the opportunity to be able to ship with you know,
FedEx and Ups and the big carriers. But you know,
really the value add that you know, our founders thought
of early on was how do we add more service,
more white glove experience to the consumer to be able

(48:46):
to trust in a company to ensure that you know,
their golf clubs, which are you know, super important to us,
and you know, make sure that they get from point
A to point B not only on time, but safely
as up.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, and you raise a really good point because you know,
I don't travel as much as I used to. But
you know, for a lot of those out there that
are traveling a lot, especially you know, if you're flying,
if you're driving, okay, you can throw them in the back,
but sometimes that can be a hassle because it takes
up a lot of room, even with an SUV. If
you've got you know, a group of you going, if
you've got to force theme going and you're driving somewhere,

(49:23):
and it's nice to you know, I've flown before in
the past, I've had my clubs with me.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
You know.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Obviously they were stored down below and I got back
and boy they were beat up, pretty bad, clubs missing
and all that kind of stuff. So that's a big thing.
I mean, you know, for golfers, clubs are are our baby.
We want to make sure they're there and we want
to build a play and so this is something that
you guys had to really think about when you were
putting shipsticks together.

Speaker 5 (49:48):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, And you know, obviously we've seen all
the horror stories you know, with with with the airlines
and you know the way that you know, golf clubs
are treated when you're traveling with the lines, and so
you know, this is an alternative solution, you know, that
provides again that white Glove service and that level of
trust ensure that you know, your baby, my baby's, everybody's

(50:12):
you know baby is getting from point A to B
again time and safely. So you know, it's been a
really neat evolution over the last you know, twelve thirteen
years to see the concept you know, not only come
to life, but to see you know, golfers like you
and I adopt the service as well as all of

(50:33):
our partners you know, around the globe and really have
a service that they can trust in, you know, to
be able to get their golf clubs from you know,
one one point to another, you know, safely and quickly.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
So talk about some of the differences. You've mentioned white
Glove a couple of times, and I understand what that means.
But explain what you're referring to and how that differs
from you know, dealing with some of the other services
like FedEx and and uh, you know, even the postal
service and things like that. Dealing with those organizations as
opposed to dealing with shipsticks to you know, send send

(51:08):
those clubs, you know, wherever they need to go.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
Yeah, great question, you know. Really it's it's it's really
a concierge service, right, It's it's making sure that the
customer and you know, the partner one are not only
aware of you know, the shipment that may be coming
inbound and or outbound, but also working with the logistics
providers and coordinating with the logistics providers to make sure

(51:32):
pickups are happening on time, to make sure that the
customer is selecting and has the you know right service
level to you know, meet their needs for their travel,
and then you know, going above and beyond, making sure
that they have the necessary supplies needed to ship, making
sure that if they need a box, we're able to
get them a box either from you know, ourselves and

(51:53):
or one of our thirty five hundred partners you know
around the globe. So really it's it's that you know,
high level, high touch concierge service that you know makes
the process easy for the consumer, uh, leaves the stress
to us and really allows us to coordinate with the
logistics providers to you know, get those those clubs there
on time. And in addition to that, Ted it's it's

(52:17):
you know, it can be difficult in some instances dealing
with larger companies like fed x ups and you know,
if there is an issue, right, we have a great
customer support team that is there to support you uh
and make sure that if there is any issue that
that that's being handled in a timely fashion. And again
that confidence is built in the customer.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
And that again raises another great point as well, is
because I I know, listen, trust me, I've I could
share a thousand horror stories of having to deal with
with companies for different things, and not just some of
the ones we mentioned, but you know, I want to
know that if I'm going to be shipping something, you know,
let's say, if I was going next week and I
needed my clubs to be there at a certain time,

(53:04):
I want to be able to have that set up.
I want to have somebody a bible to take care
of that for me, and I want and you can
walk us through a little bit in a moment, you
know how the process works. But I also want to
be able to reach somebody if there is an issue,
because I don't care who it is, issues can come up.
I mean, it's just a factor. So it's nice to
be able to have somebody and say, hey, you know

(53:26):
what's happening here. You know, I thought they were going
to be here. Whatever the case is, So walk us
through the process what happens. So if I'm a customer
of Shipsticks and I'm leaving next week on a trip
and I need to get my club's safe and sound
up to let's say Chicago is an example, how much leeway?
What's the process that goes on? And am I able
to track where they are at any given time, whether

(53:48):
it's through directly through you guys, or through an app
or what have you? Sort of sort of walk us
through the process how it works.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
Yeah. Absolutely, So we have a great technological platform as
well as an app that allows customers to go online
and or through the app and process their shipment. And
they can process both domestic and international shipments through through
both of those fasts, and really ted. It's it's a

(54:17):
simple process. You know, we need your origination information destination information,
and you know then you'll be provided with different service
level options really depending on where you're shipping from and
where you're shipping to and how quickly you need them.
So you know, it could be anywhere from one day
for overnight service, or it could be as much as

(54:37):
four days, you know, for for domestic ground service. So
it really just depends. There's there's several options that are
you know, customizable to what your needs are, what your
travel schedule is. And then once that shipment is processed,
it's very simple. You can either ship your golf clubs
directly in the travel bag itself and or a box.

(55:00):
If you don't have a box again, you can get
one from one of our thirty five hundred partners and
or we can send it right to your house and
then once that label is on the box and or
the travel bag, we take it from there. Right we're coordinating,
you know, with our logistic partners to have that picked up.
You also have the option to drop it off at
a local carrier store and then we really monitor it

(55:21):
from the time that it's picked up until the time
that it's delivered, So you know, we have internal trapping
systems to ensure that everything is on time and that
that set of golf clubs is where it needs to
be when it needs to be there. And then also
we have transparency with a customer right so they have
the ability to go on either the app and or
our website and track their clubs again from the time

(55:41):
that it's picked up until the time that it's delivered.
So full visibilities, full transparency. But again we also have
our great customer service team internally that is watching each
and every single shipment all throughout the whole process.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
That sounds great, and I mean and that's what really
what people are looking for again because as you and
I both know, golf clubs are not cheap. I mean,
they can you know, depending on what you're playing with,
they could be pretty costly. And so you know that's
an investment and you want to you know, make sure
that they're going to arrive and obviously in good condition.
Playing a little Devil's advocate here in the event and

(56:19):
it does happen, I'm sure where something doesn't get there,
let's say on time, does Shipstick have some sort of
a backup plan is or what procedure happens there. Do
you have partners where we say, okay, it's not going
to get there. We know you're playing on Tuesday, there's
an issue, whatever it may be. What sort of can

(56:39):
you do at that point to help that individual out
so they're not just feeling okay, now I got no clubs,
you know for the first part of my trip.

Speaker 5 (56:45):
Yeah, great question, and that is really where we shine,
right and so you know, we'll go above and beyond
and take whatever measures we need to ensure that those
golf clubs or any other of our products that we
shift are there on time, whether that's working with the
logistics providers to penetrate their network and get that shipment
out of the network and into you know, a third

(57:08):
party's hands to ensure that you know, it's delivered on time.
But in the event, for whatever reason it does happen,
it doesn't happen often, but that it does happen, we have,
you know, several solutions for that customer where our team
will coordinate to have rental clubs, shoes, balls, whatever it
is that they need until their clubs are riving. So

(57:31):
you know, by no means are we leaving any customer
high and drive. We'll make sure that they're well taken
care of and have what they need. But obviously our
number one priority is to make sure that those golf
clubs are getting there. And again we'll book to any
measure that we possibly can to ensure that, you know,
those clubs are delivered on time. And you know, we're
a company of golfers ourselves, so we understand the importance

(57:54):
of having your golf clubs and you know how important
some of these golf trips can be to people. Right
It's want once in a lifetime opportunity to go to
some of these locations, and we understand that, and so
you know, that's why our team goes goes to whatever
extent needed to make sure that those are on the
first t wait for you when we're yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
And that's that's extremely important because you know, if you're
hitting that bucket list, you know, maybe you're playing Pinehurst
for the first time and you want to get there,
you know, there's no worse feelings showing up and excited
to play and everything didn't show up. So that's extremely
important and that that, you know, is a testament to
Shipstick's customer service and and your team efforts there to

(58:34):
to make sure that that doesn't happen. So I appreciate you, uh,
you know, sort of shedding some light on that. So
as far as talk about pricing a little bit, because
you know, I don't I want people to understand. I mean,
obviously there's different levels of service that can be applied,
but just maybe give us an idea of what some
of the things that we might be talking about. So

(58:55):
what are some of the levels of service, what are
their add ons? How does that work as well? Do
we have sort of a one standard rate and then
if you want to add on for additional services or
features or what have you of the program? How does
that work?

Speaker 5 (59:08):
Yeah, So our base rate is for our ground service,
which again it really just depends on where you're shipping
from in two and the transit time of that. But
our ground service starts at forty ninety nine and goes
up to seventy nine to ninety nine. But then again
you have several other options if they're needed, you know,
overnight from New York to Los Angeles. You know, we

(59:29):
can get those there for you for you know, about
one hundred and fifty nine to ninety nine and then
international is a little bit more expensive. But again, when
you think about the convenience and not having to deal
with airports like Heathrow in some of these nightmares that
we've seen over the years, you know, the convenience certainly
outweighs the hussle of having to lug your clubs through

(59:51):
multiple airports and then again relying on those airlines and
those airports to make sure that your clubs are where
they need to be when they need to be. So,
you know, we have a wide variety of options, you know,
that can be tailored to anybody's travel needs. And the
price is, you know, from a ground perspective, relatively competitive
with the airlines. But it's not all about price for

(01:00:14):
our customers, you know, it really comes down to that convenience,
the level of service that they're receiving. And you know,
I'm a firm believer and I'm sure a majority of
our customers are as well, is that once you ship
your clubs once you know, more than likely you're you're
you're not going to be lugging them through the airport
after that, So you know, but again it's it's whatever
service that we can provide to our customers or what

(01:00:37):
we can do to meet their needs. We're here to
do that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Yeah, and again, that's that's a huge thing because again
I can tell you from personal experience. You know, long
before you guys come on the scene, you know, you
didn't have a lot of options. You either lug them
yourself and and you sort of took a risk. And
especially nowadays with air travel being so challenging to say

(01:01:00):
the least, you know, that's one less thing that you
really want to have to worry about. And again, and
it's a big item. I mean, it's not like a
small little carry on. I mean golf clubs and especially
if you're going with a group, now you've got four
sets of golf clubs, or if it's a couple, you
know you got two and just you know, to stow
them below. And I mean, I'm gonna be honest, I've
seen how they handle you know, some of the bags.

(01:01:22):
So you know that that's a good But I think
what I really am impressed about shipsticks is the fact
that you do go the extra mile for your customers.
It's not just okay, well, thank you, we're going to
ship it off and you know, let us know if
it gets there, you're there monitoring the process. They're able
to monitor the process, and you're able to respond time

(01:01:43):
in a timely fashion, you know, should you know, issues
do arise. I want to talk about a little bit
between domestic and international as well, because you brought that up.
What would you say currently ballpark it if you have
to your domestic business compared to international and are you
seeing just with now the travel is starting to open

(01:02:05):
up a little bit more post COVID more increase international
business as well. Give us some feedback on that.

Speaker 5 (01:02:13):
Yeah, I mean international has really been one of our
biggest you know, growth sectors in the business, more specifically
after COVID and when travel did open up. You know,
we've seen in an astounding, you know rise in our
international business and the relationships and the partnerships that we've
been able to you know, build over the last couple

(01:02:34):
of years from an international perspective has been fantastic. So,
you know, I would say our international business is about
twenty percent of our overall business. Obviously domestic is still
you know, a big, a big chunk of that, but
you know, to see the growth internationally is super exciting,
and you know, from an international perspective too. You know,

(01:02:55):
I think one of the important things to to realize
with our service is all the custom ms processes, paperwork
that goes along with an international shipment is all handled
by our team. So you know, really from a booking process,
you know, it's no different than a domestic but again,
everything is being handled by our team on the back
end to ensure that again those golf clubs are on

(01:03:18):
the first tea or in your hotel room waiting for you,
and that you're not having to you know, worry about
customs or anything of that nature. And so yeah, I
mean International has been you know, really fun to see
that growth and experience and work with these different partners abroad,
you know, to provide a service that ultimately makes it

(01:03:39):
more convenient for all of us golfers.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
Yeah, and again, you know, when you're dealing with international
and as you said, customs and things like that, you know,
for you guys, you know, you've got it down to
a science, you know the deal, how it works. But
for the average person that let's be honest, it's unless
they're really really travel savvy or you know, go through
some that that's a little bit more. Uh, that inclined.

(01:04:04):
It's challenging, and there's a lot of things that people
don't factor in, so it's nice to have somebody. Again,
you're talking about a very expensive you know, uh product
that you're shipping. People don't want to you know, just
sort of rely on on you know, sort of flying
by the seat of their pants. So obviously travel has

(01:04:24):
become a more robust post COVID for you guys. You're
seeing a big benefit just because of what you're offering,
not just shipping it, but just the whole concierge type
of atmosphere. What what have been some of the top
destinations for ship what's you say your top three destinations
for shipsticks domestic and then give us international.

Speaker 5 (01:04:45):
But yeah, I mean, you know, we couldn't do without
our partners, right and so domestically Bandon Dunes, Pebble Beach, Pinehurst,
all the big resorts have been fantastic partners for us
in our biggest the biggest destinations, I would say number
one on the domestic side is most definitely Abandoned Dunes.
Obviously we all know for those of us that have

(01:05:06):
been there, how hard it is to get to Bandon Dunes,
So you know, abandoned dunes, you know, highly recommends our
service when when coming in and out of their facility,
which is fantastic on the international side. A lot of
seasonality to the business on the international side, right, So
you know, our big trade lands for international is obviously Ireland,

(01:05:27):
United Kingdom, Scotland, really Western Europe. But we're really starting
to see a rise in Portugal, Spain. I know there's
a lot of great golf over there, but it's it's
really cool to see those trends and you know where
people are traveling and so yeah, that's that's our top
destinations both domestically and internationally.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Are you seeing and you may not be doing it
at this point, but are you seeing an opportunity because
there's obviously been a big rise you know, international, not
just in some of the places you mentioned, but we're
seeing in a lot of the Asian blocks now, you
know South Korea, you know Campbo, I mean, every every
place that you could ever imagine that you never think
there was a golf course. Boy, they're popping up, you know,
all over the place. Vietnam, I mean, there's just a

(01:06:11):
lot of travel going there now because it's unique, it's
different than what people are used to are you seeing
do you have opportunities at this point? Is that something
you guys are working on, and do you see that
being blossoming into a big part of your business in
the future as well?

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:06:29):
Absolutely, I mean the Asian market has really boomed and
golf has really grown in those markets, and yes, we
will definitely be there to to to be a part
of that and you know, be able to offer our
service to to those locations.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Number One destination that you'd want to ship your clubs toll.

Speaker 5 (01:06:48):
Would That's a that is a tough question, you know.
I would say to domestically would have to probably be
Banded Dunes. You know, I think that is a special spot,
great spot to be with your friends, you know. I
think on the international front, I'm a big fan of Ireland,

(01:07:09):
you know, I think they have a lot of great
gulf over there. It's a good time. So those those
would be to my two top destinations if I.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Was traveling now, we got the Open coming up next week.
Have you got some folks that are heading over that
way that you're shipping some clock? I mean, obviously you
can't give specifics, but are you doing some shipping over there?
In preparation for the Open.

Speaker 5 (01:07:30):
Yeah, we certainly do. And it's funny we actually do
probably more on the return for the Open just because
of you know, the different travel arrangements that the players
have or guests that are attending the Open, you know,
throughout Europe, band or other parts of Ireland. So yeah,

(01:07:50):
we do see a spike this time of year, which
is great and you know, I think it's a fantastic
venue in Royal Court Rush this year, and you know,
so we're super excited for next week and to see
what unfolds.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
You guys have a partnership with the PJ of America.
Talk about that. I know you're excited about that partnership.

Speaker 5 (01:08:08):
Yeah, that's a new partnership for us this year. Obviously,
we've worked closely with the PGA of America, you know
since day one. You know, the business is really founded
on that B to B model and partnering with those
golf facilities, country clubs, golf clubs and really providing them
with a platform, technology and a service back zone that
they could offer the service to their members and guests.

(01:08:28):
And so they've always played an integral part in the
service and you know, to be able to solidify a
partnership with them for the next three years is super
exciting for us, and you know, to be able to
work closer with the PGA, the PGA professionals and you know,
grow our service, you know, not just with golf but

(01:08:50):
our other verticals as well. It is something that we're
super excited about and can't be more appreciative of what
the PGA and those professionals have done for our service
in the game of golf in general.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
And when we spoke the last time, you mentioned that
you guys ship skis as well, which is which yeah, tell.

Speaker 5 (01:09:13):
Us about about anything that's a hassle to travel with.
You know, we've we've we've gotten into being able to
ship it. But skis Is Skis came about in twenty fourteen.
It really came from our existing customer base, right They
They came to us and said, hey, you guys have
done such a great job shipping our golf clubs. We
obviously you know, travel out west and ski in the

(01:09:35):
winter months, were able to ship skis and so we
said absolutely. So, you know, we launched our ship Skis
Vertical in twenty fourteen and we've since you know, launched
a couple other verticals, you know, to handle luggage, and
most recently Ship and Play, which is our new parent company,
which we're super excited about. And you know, we have

(01:09:56):
a long runway ahead of us and a lot of
opportunity to to attempt to, uh, you know, really revolutionize
and change the way in which people think about traveling.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:10:05):
You know, as you alluded to earlier, there's really only
been one option when you're traveling, and that is to
lug it through the airport, wait at the long baggage lines.
And you know, these airports aren't aren't getting any less crowded,
and the airlines aren't making it easier. So you know,
we really feel that our service is you know, a
game changer and an opportunity to allow people to travel

(01:10:27):
differently and you know, maybe even enjoy travel again, you
know when you're walking through the airport, you know, bagless.
So super exciting time here at the company, and you know,
again we have a long runway ahead of us, and
we're excited about it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
What's the best part of your job? What do you
love the most about working with shipsticks?

Speaker 5 (01:10:48):
Yeah, good question. Every day is a different challenge, right,
you know, I think the relationships again that we've been
able to build with our partners and understanding how their
facilities operate and the service that they want to provide
to their members and guests. And being in a company
like this and being able to adapt to their needs

(01:11:09):
and provide them services that they need has been super
rewarding and exciting as well as you know, working with
our partners UPS and DHL and understanding how their networks
work and how these golf clubs and luggage and skis
travel through their network, and you know, continuing to work

(01:11:29):
with them to become more efficient and provide you know,
a better service to our customers through those relationships that
we've been able to build with them. So every day
is a new challenge. Every day is exciting. But you know, no,
uh no, no, no shortfall of work here for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
So where are you shipping your clubs to? Next?

Speaker 5 (01:11:50):
Where am I shipping my go next?

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:11:54):
My My next next agenda is out to Las Vegas?
So about that?

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
Very good? Very good. Yeah, it's you know, it's interesting.
It's when I look at how things have changed in
our industry over the last you know, decade or so,
and now you know, we've got AI and we've got
all this new high tech technology coming into the place,
which I know you guys are integrating and probably have

(01:12:23):
in some level. Do you just see it getting even
more efficient and more streamlined than what it you know,
was in twenty fourteen twenty fifteen. Are you seeing a
big change because of the technological changes in equipment and
things like that now in software programs? Are you seeing
where your business is going to even be that much better?

(01:12:46):
It's hard to believe it could get better than what
it already is, but you know, do you see that
really being a big gross s burt in the next
maybe a couple of years.

Speaker 5 (01:12:53):
Yeah, we really do. I mean, we really feel that
the technology that is out there today, and you know,
some of the opportunities that we have on the horizon
is really stomer centric and focused in making the process
simpler for the customer. You know, Ted one example of
that as we recently just partnered with Uber for first

(01:13:14):
and last mile delivery, So being able to utilize to
pick up you know, your golf clubs, your luggage, your skis,
whatever it is, you know, from your house at twelve
oh five tomorrow, right is a big deal versus where
the carriers give you a range of two to four. Right,
So being able to leverage that technology, eliminate the need

(01:13:34):
the print labels and be more specific to people's needs
and or time constraints, is you know, something that we're
super excited about and something that we feel our customers
will you know, continue to take advantage of in you know,
thinking about using our service again, you know over you know,
lugging that stuff through the airport and again waiting at

(01:13:56):
those baggage lines, running bigger cars and really just save time.
I think in today's world, you know, time means a
lot to people, as does convenience, and so anything that
we can do to create a better service, a better
product for our customer, you know, we're going to leverage
that technology to be able to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
So when just sort of one last thought here, So
if I'm shipping something to what we'll just use as
an example, Las Vegas, and now I'm coming home, what's
the process that basically I just swap out a new
label and it now has picked up at my hotel
or wherever I am, and then it makes way back
until I get home and there's my golf clubs.

Speaker 5 (01:14:39):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's a great point. You know, it
doesn't matter if you're shipping from your home, your business,
a hotel, a resort. Right, we have the ability to
you know, communicate with those locations, make sure that you
have your shipping label, make sure that the facility has
your shipping label, and that that bag is ready to

(01:15:00):
be picked up by you know, one of our our
third party couriers and or carriers UH to ensure that
you know, you're not stressing about that, right. That's why
that that that's where we come into play is working
with those bellman, working with the front desk, working with
those shipping and receiving departments to coordinate, you know, with
them to make sure that your golf clubs are labeled,

(01:15:21):
are available for for carrier pickup and you know, en
route to to your destination when they're supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
That sounds good. If the folks want to get more information,
where can they go? What's the website they can go
to to check shipsticks out?

Speaker 5 (01:15:37):
Yeah, shipsticks dot com. You know you can get anything
from a quote, book your shipment, learn more about the service,
learn how to pack your golf clubs, as well as
all the other items that we're able to ship in
our other brands.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
Sounds good, well, Jeff, thank you very much for for
coming on and shedding some light. It sounds like you
guys have got a lot of great things coming up.
No on existing, but come up in the future. And
congratulations on your new partnership relationship with the PG of America.
I know that you guys are going to give them
thank you. Yeah, I think that you know. I'm sure
it's long overdue. I know that they've needed it for

(01:16:11):
a long time. So I'm glad that you guys have
been able to step up and help and I think
it's going to be a great relationship moving forward. But
thank you very much for coming on tonight sharing that,
and I'm looking forward to working with you guys as
well on a separate level. But I'm looking forward to
doing that, but I appreciate you coming on. And let
me just remind everybody, of course, if you want to

(01:16:33):
catch this broadcast, you can go to our YouTube channel
I Golf Sports or on Spotify. And if you want
to just catch the audio version, you can go to
speaker dot com or basically wherever you typically listen to
your audio versions as well, And don't forget to subscribe
to the channels and get notified as we add new
episodes each and every week. I want a special thanks

(01:16:54):
to my earlier guests on the Coach's Corner Panel, PJ
Mass Professional John Hughes and LPGA teach Professional Jamie Leno Zimron,
and of course my very special guest, Chief Operoring Officer
of Shipsticks Jeffrey Scost. Thank you very much again and
I will see you guys in two weeks. Next week,
I'm on vacation. I'm heading up to Indiana to French
Lick Resort. So I'm heading up. Unfortunately, I won't be

(01:17:16):
golfing where I would have shipped my sticks with you guys.
But I'm not golfing. This is just a personal trip.
But I want to thank everybody for tuning into the
broadcast and thank you again jeff for joining me tonight.
I will see you too on Golf Talk Live.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
Thanks for joining us. We hope you enjoyed this week's
broadcast of Golf Talk Live. We'd like to thank this
week's Coach's Corner Panel and a special thank you to
tonight's guest. Remember to join Ted every Thursday from six
to eight pm Central on Golf Talk Live and be
sure to follow Ted on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. If

(01:17:55):
you're interested in being a guest on Golf Talk Live,
send Ted an email mail at Ted dot golf talk
Live at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
This has been a production of the Igolf Sports Network.

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Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 16 | July 10th, 2025

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 16 | July 10th, 2025