Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 22 | Sept 4th, 2025 - Golf Talk Live

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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(00:32):
the game's most in depth instruction magazine, including reviews on
the latest equipment, tips from top teaching professionals, all designed
to help you improve from tee to green. Welcome to
Golf Talk Live with your host Ted oto Rico. Join
Ted each week as he speaks with some of the
best in golf. This week's special guest will join us

(00:52):
a bit later. But first up is another great discussion
on Coach's Corner, So let's introduce tonight's Coaches Corner Panel.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Good evening, everybody, and welcome to Season thirteen of Golf
Talk Live. I'm your host, heedrod Rico, got a great
show tonight. Joining me this week on the Coach's Corner Panel,
of course, is Jim Endicott and Jamie Lenno Zimron. I'll
tell you a little bit about them here in just
a moment, and then later on I'll be joined again
by our travel segment co host travel expert Robert Kaufman,
alongside this evening's special feature travel guest, Executive Director of

(01:28):
Golf at Win Golf Club in Las Vegas. And then
a little bit later on my featured guest at the
evening evening excuse me, is Nancy Robatai, the chief designer
and lead brand strategist for Swing Controls. She'll be joining
me a little bit later on the broadcast, but let
me remind everybody. Of course, if you want to watch
this or any of the other previously aired episodes, you

(01:48):
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register today at golf tipsmag dot com and join our
ever growing group of Premium members. Let me introduce our
gang tonight. First up as Jim Endicott excuse Me. He
is PGA Educational Faculty Member and PGA specialized professional in

(02:56):
both teaching and coaching. And he's a former Golf Digest
School at Manager and a seven time PGA Award winning
Winter Excuse Me, including the twenty twenty two North Florida
PJ Section Patriot Award and two North Florida PJA Youth
Development Awards. And he's also a contributing editor to Golf
Tips Magazine as well as one of the top twenty
five instructors. Also coming on the panel tonight is. Another

(03:18):
good friend is Jamie Leno Zimron, and she's a Class
A L but J teach Profederals professional. She's also a
six degree I Keto black belt, somatic psychologist, a corporate speaker,
and mind Body fitness trainer. And she graduated Phi Beta
Kappa from the University of Stanford and is also the
creator of the key I Golf The Centered Way. So

(03:40):
Jamie and Jim, welcome to Coaches Corner Panel.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Thank you, Jed, it's great to be here.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
Great to be here with you as well.

Speaker 5 (03:47):
Jamie.

Speaker 6 (03:47):
Yeah, thank you, Ted, happy to be here. I always
enjoy these.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
I gotta say, Jamie, I'm jealous of your background.

Speaker 6 (03:53):
This is my new backyard in Mexico.

Speaker 7 (03:56):
I hate you.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
I just hate you. I know this is a lake,
even don't even go there. It's fantastics. So we're going
to talk about on tonight's show. This is something and
I want to make sure that I sort of preference
this a little bit because there's a lot of areas
we can get into, and I want to try to

(04:18):
really stay focused and dialed in on specifics so that
we don't add into too many things. Otherwise you're going
to get too far ahead of ourselves here, But one
of the things we're going to talk about is some
common wedge play issues that a lot of players, because
this falls into our short game category. Of course, wedge play,
you want to be able to dial in and get
on a lot of those greens in regulation in many cases,
or if you miss the green, you want to be

(04:39):
able to recover quickly. So that brings our wedge game
in quite a bit. So, you know, a lot of
our amateur golfers tend to struggle with wedge play, and
a lot of it stems from poor distance control, obviously,
inconsistent contact, and in some cases even incorrect club selection.
And these can stem from a lot of different areas
as well as fundamental mistakes in the setup, tempo, and

(05:01):
even swing mechanics. But we're going to start things off,
and Jamie, I'm going to start with you if you
don't mind, and I'm going to start with distance control
and consistency. So one of the issues that I think
a lot of our amateur golfers come with is a
lack of gapping knowledge. And what I mean by that is, obviously,
like many of the tour pros who kind of know

(05:24):
precisely the distances between the different wedges, how far they're
hitting each one. Many of amateurs obviously lack a lot
of that information because they don't really practice that, and
they tend to over rely or over reliance, if you will,
on the same club, So they use the same wedge
all the time. And I'm not saying that's necessarily a
bad thing. It might work for some, but sometimes you

(05:46):
have to be a little bit more flexible. So talk
a little bit about that. How can they improve on that,
and what is it they're not really understanding the benefits
of having maybe more than one wedge in the golf bag.

Speaker 6 (05:58):
Great questions, and I think they're really important questions for
people to improve their short game and save shots. I
know when I was growing up and probably a lot
of folks maybe felt that way that all they had
was a seven iron. We didn't have fifty six, you know, sixties,
fifty two, fifty four, so all these different lofted wedge
wedges to choose from. So I know, I learned how

(06:21):
to pretty much make a seven iron work for just
about everything. But it's really nice to have the choices
these days. So for the first thing, I think people
need to understand is the loft you know, what does
it mean? A fifty two, a fifty four, you know,
bring me my sixty or you know that sort of thing,
and that what that means the loft on the club.

(06:43):
If this is zero degrees and you keep going like this,
that's what gives loft. So you know we're talking a
driver might be like this, you know, nine ten, eleven degrees,
not a lot of loft, and it's a wider swing
arc and the balls going farther, so with more loft,
it's fifty two, four or six, you know, sixty degrees.

(07:04):
The ball when you contact it sort of runs up
the face of the club and then that gives it loft.
So we don't really have to help it, you know,
I have to go like this, scoop it up. That's
something people need to understand that, you know, the loft
on the club is going to help get the ball
up into the air and get the job done. So

(07:25):
people need to look at where's the pin on the green?
We talk about all I got a lot of green
to work with. What does that mean? That means the
pins more in the middle or back, so there's a
lot of running room for more of a we call
bump and run shot or maybe the pins up front.
So if I use my old seven iron and I
try to just make a little tiny swing so it
won't go too far. But a seven iron is going

(07:47):
to tend to run seven eight nine iron is going
to tend to run more. The more lofted clubs are
going to fly higher. They're also tend to have a
little more spin because of the way the club gets
under the ball. So these are some factors that people
need to start to get familiar with if they're not,
and then that's going to go into their club selection.
I think that's all I'll say for now. I'm sure

(08:08):
more of this is going to come out in our conversation.
But something I want to talk about is something that
I tell my students, and I say this and they
think me for it. Every good shot should add up
to one hundred. And what I mean by that is
one hundred is a nice round number. We go fifty
back fifty through, Yeah, fifty back fifty through even better,
maybe for a pot and a chip or a pitch,

(08:30):
forty eight fifty two, maybe even forty five fifty five.
That means you're going to have a little acceleration. The
club's going to be going a little faster on the
way through. We don't want to decell. So let's say
forty five to fifty five, okay, Just and that those
need to be consistent and matched up. Okay. And what

(08:52):
happens for a lot of people is they'll go sixty
ninety it's one hundred and fifty and it's out of ratio.
Ok Or they'll go seventy oh no, and then they
you know, subconsciously that they slow down, they decell, decelerate
seventy twenty okay, and it's like a dead shot and
it's only ninety. So this is what I'm saying. I

(09:14):
asked people to evaluate what was the size of their swing,
you know, what was the proportion and the size of
their swing, okay, And that the distance that a putt
or a chip who short shot goes is relative to
the size of the swing, size of the back swing
and follow through. Okay. So if I go just ankles
to ankles, knees to knees, hips to hips, shoulders to shoulders, okay,

(09:40):
the bigger swing is going to give more distance. It's
not about how far we hit the ball. So those
are some general rules, and this idea of every good
shot adds up to one hundred and starting to balance
out your swing and then knowing you know the club
that you're using, the size of the swing, start to
be able to dial in the distance that you're hitting

(10:03):
your short shuts. So I'm gonna start with that.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, that's a really great point. I want I want
to just take it just a quick step further than Jim.
I'm gonna come to you. You know, this is why
you watch and I specifically mentioned unlike the tour pros,
many amateurs don't do what you're talking about. If you
ever watch the Tour pros. Tiger is probably one of
the best examples I can think of in more modern
times is he would do just that. Whenever he had

(10:26):
a specific shot he would hit. You might see me
take a little shorter back swing and have maybe a
little bit more follow through. He followed that sort of
hundred rule, if you will. And he specifically did that
because obviously, in your mind, if you're doing a swing,
you're not thinking, Okay, I want forty eight, I got
to do fifty two now, or forty five to fifty
five whatever. You can't constantly think about that. But if
you practice that movement ahead of time, then you know

(10:48):
kind of what it feels like. And I think a
lot of pros if you ever watch them as they
get ready to go through their pre shot routine, some
of them will actually do in the pre shot routine
when they're doing a practice is they will actually do
exactly what you're talking about. Is they'll mimic the type
of swing that they need for that particular shot. So
that's a really great point and that you raise there

(11:09):
and that Jim, I want to come to you now
as well. And you know, Jamie kind of touched a
little bit about too much loft. We see a lot
of golfers out there with a fifty eight a sixty
degree wedge and every shot and they have balloons up
in the air and comes down there's very little roll.
And the other component as well is sometimes they have
an excessive swing speed. So it kind of goes to

(11:32):
a little bit of what Jamie was talking about being
more controlled and how we handle things. Talk a little
bit about the swing speed as well. They tend to
overpower the ball. And then also I mean not saying
that there isn't a place but I think if we
rely too much on a super high lofted club like
a sixty degree wedge, everybody's trying to hit that lob shot,
that may not always be the best for some of

(11:52):
our amateurs as well. Give me your thoughts.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
Yeah, so I would agree with that, And I love
what you just said there, Jamie on that everything matches
the hundred.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
I think that's wonderful.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
When we look at that loft, we have to understand
what it's doing for us. As Jamie described, that loft
is propelling the ball into the air. Now, if I'm
a player who doesn't have a lot of speed and
I take something like a sixty degree wedge, I can't
advance that golf ball very far with that sixty degree wedge,

(12:22):
and a full swing maybe for me at a certain
rate of speed that I can generate might only produce
a shot that's maybe fifty yards. Well, would I be
better off to take something with a little bit less loft,
maybe fifty six? And Jamie, you mentioned that you had
a seven iron. When I went to tour school back in

(12:44):
nineteen ninety six, the only wedge I had in my
bag was a.

Speaker 7 (12:47):
Fifty six degree wedge.

Speaker 4 (12:48):
And a pitching wedge, and so they may be they
may benefit from having maybe a fifty two degree wedge
where now they can run, they can make that golf
swing at an eighty percent rate and be able to
control the action of how they swing that golf club,

(13:08):
which then in turn gives them the ability to apply
the club more proficiently and more consistently. And the more
consistent they can apply the golf club, the more they
can now take what Jamie talked about and do the hundreds,
a forty to a sixty or a fifty to a fifty,

(13:29):
that sort of a thing. So application becomes very important.
So we have to look at our skill set and
say I can swing at this fast. Thus my wedge
set might be that I have a forty four, a
forty eight and a fifty two, and that's as much
as I go. And if I need to soften the

(13:50):
shot very close to the green, I take that fifty
two and now I add some loft to it when
I set it down. We hear it talked about opening
the club face, and now I can make that fifty
two of fifty six in a very short shot that
needs to be soft. So I think that Not only

(14:10):
is it the loft that is important to that player,
it's also the bounce on that golf club. You know,
how is that bottom part of that golf club interacting
with the soil. Do they have a very wide bounce
and they're playing on very firm soil, They're going to
struggle with that. Where if they have a very wide
bounce and they're playing somewhere like Pebble Beach where the

(14:31):
turf is very soft, now it fits the situation better.
So the loft is very important in determining what is
my makeup based on my ability and speed that I
can swing the golf club. I currently have a fifty
eight in my bag and I'm considering getting rid of
that because well, I got a few more gray hairs

(14:53):
here and that golf swings slowing down a little bit.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
So I'm looking at are all back to that?

Speaker 4 (14:59):
Yeah, going back to that fifty six degree wedge, so
that I can swing it at that maybe an eighty
percent rate of speed and get my application to be better.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, that's that's an excellent point too. And you know
you this is why it's important, I think every season
to kind of come out and do an assessment of
where you're at, because again, even in a year, I
mean obviously if you're in your twenties thirties, and that's
a little bit different. But as we age, i mean,
let's be honest, we're not gonna have as much generate
as much speed as we once did, and sometimes the
makeup of our golf bag needs to change. Just like

(15:32):
for years, you know, you know, we all had you know,
three four iron, some people even had a two iron
in the bag, and then now all of a sudden,
we've sort of scrapped and some people don't even have
a five iron, they go down to a seven iron.
It might have some hybrids that that fill in some
of those gaps because they're just not generating the speed
that they once did to hit that four iron, so

(15:53):
you know, they can get better results using you know,
a good hybrid or something. So yeah, you also have
to look at the wedge game. I mean, you know,
it's nice to say, hey, I can hit these flop shots,
but if you're carrying a sixty degree you know, for
the number of shots you're gonna need a sixty degree
wedge for it's maybe not the best choice. And if
you're not as an accomplished player, maybe going back to

(16:15):
a fifty six and even you know, a fifty two
or something along that lines might be the better route
to go. So that's why you have to really work
with your professional and say, let's do an assessment beginning
of the year, see where things are at. Do I
need to make some adjustments in my bag? And if
that's the case, then that's the time to do it,
and then you work through the process at that point.
So great points as well, Jim, Thank you. All right, Jamie,

(16:37):
we're gonna come back. We're gonna switch gears a little bit.
We're gonna talk about poor contact and we've got a
couple of things here. Maybe you can just shed the
light who hasn't occasionally hit some chunky shots or maybe
even a few skuld shots with her wedges. Give us
an idea of each of them, what each of them

(16:58):
mean when I say chunky and gold and typically, what
are some of the causes of that of each of them?

Speaker 8 (17:05):
Sorry, yeah, well, one of the first is the d
cell we call it d CEL deceleration. And you know,
a lot of times we'll take the club back and
maybe they'll take it back too far, and then they
slow down on the way down, and that just.

Speaker 6 (17:23):
Really kind of destroys your contact. So that's that's the
first thing you know in the club if the club's
going too slowly and it's not accelerating through the ball.
And I hesitate to use that word because I don't
mean go fast, I just mean relative to the swing.
It needs to be going faster on the way through
then on the way back. Okay, I can't slow down

(17:43):
on the way down because then you're gonna get stuck
in the grass. You're gonna maybe just even hit the ground.
Let's say there's not a lot of grass. You just
hit the ground. You got this chunky divot and the
ball doesn't go anywhere. A lot of times, you know,
the old lift in your head can cause a sculd
shot or shots that's going to go racing over the green.

(18:06):
And you know, when we talk about topping it, what
does topping the ball mean? A lot of people say that,
but to understand what that means. It means for me,
it means hitting the top of the ball rather than
making contact where the club's going to bottom out, you know,
and the grass right behind the ball, and you know,
let the ball fly up in the air, and that happens.

(18:27):
We hit the top of the ball when we lift
ourselves up. So yeah, and then the top of the
club hits the top of the ball, okay, rather than
the face of the club making centered contact and brushing
through the grass and launching the ball. So that old
topping the ball comes about from lifting. A lot of times,

(18:48):
lifting happens because we peak. Why do we peak? And
look because we're insecure. You know, we're control freaks and
we're insecure. We're like, how was it? Next thing? You know,
you've lifted up and then you top the ball, so
you know that happens. And lacking that consistent backswing and
follow through back and through. So it really is in

(19:12):
practicing to get that nice even motion and that's accelerating. I,
as you know, talk a lot about being centered. This
is my logo KEII golf and it's a sword in
a golf ball, all right. So that's my martial arts
and golf together. And so centeredness is a very big
thing in martial arts, and I think it's important in

(19:34):
golf is that we so we think our belly down
and we into our feet. Our feet are solid on
the ground and we have stability, that's the first thing.
And then we need to make centered contact on the ball. Okay,
like this, Now, when we lift and sway a little bit,
or if we lift and pull up on the way through,

(19:55):
or we go down and kind of go like this
and follow the ball with our body, all that is
going to destroy the contact of the ball, the centered
contact of the ball. So the more that we're centered,
we stay centered, we make a nice balance swing. The
club is going to just bottom out right where it
needs to. The loft of the club is going to
do its work automatically. We don't have to help it.

(20:16):
We don't have to fear that it's not working and
check and then we wreck it. Anyways, So centered and
practice at centeredness, at evenness, and when we say let
the club do the work, that's what we mean in
that regard. So I think those things are really important.
I hesitate to use the S word, the s H
word shank and basically, but it tends to be when

(20:42):
we hit the ball off closer to the hazzle of
the club. And rather than trying to like fix that,
I just like to practice what's right. And the more
I practice this solid, stable even all of that takes
care of itself and I start to come out with
nice enter contact on the ball. You know, there's some

(21:04):
there's some different ways to get spin on the ball.
One is to kind of hit down on it, and
it creates back spin a lot of unless you're a
really more advanced player. I hesitate with that too much
because people kind of and then they stick on the ground.
Another way is to kind of have the face open
more and create more law and kind of brush under

(21:26):
and that will create some spin on it as well. Again,
I kind of reserve those a little bit more for
you know, somewhat more advanced players, or at least mid
mid teen handicappers, because I think the most thing for
most players, they just need to get a nice balance
swing and get confident in making that contact, keep their

(21:46):
head down, let the ball fly up, and then look up.
I always joked that I think it was Mark Twain,
you know, Diddy Golf. Who knows, but Mark Twain said
I never looked up to see a shot. I liked, yeah,
never looked up see a shot. I like, right, So
you got to be looking down as the club's making contact,
the ball's going and then you look up. You like

(22:07):
the shot. But if you're looking up, well, you're gonna
kind of destroy that centered contact of the arc of
the swing.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, that's those are some thoughts. Yeah, those are some
great points. Because you're so right, we run into the habit.
You see a lot on the putting surface people, you know,
trying to sneak a peek at how the putts come
out before they've even barely struck the uh you know
the putt. And and you know, again the club is there,
it's designed, it's made a certain way. Each club is

(22:35):
different for a certain purpose, certain loft, and it's designed
to do different things. And yeah, you can manipulate. For
more advanced players, there are things you could do to
manipulate to help get more spin or get more height
and things, as a gym also pointed out. But at
the end of the day, you know, for our high handicappers,
I'm just happy if they can make good solid contact.
They don't need to be you know, as they get

(22:55):
more advanced, then you can get into some more challenging things.
But let's just get them, you know, stop hitting those
chunky and and those skuld shots, as you pointed out,
and let's you know, get into just make a good
solid contact, jim just to continue on with the poor
contact for just a quick second. Another issue that does
that is lack of body rotation, you know, I know
Jimmy touched a little bit about that. And then also

(23:17):
there which involves their tempo. We see a lot of
jabby sort of pokey tempo, quick and jerky tempo, and
especially on our chips and pitches, and that that leads
to poor contact. And you know, I think those are
a couple of areas that we can touch with too.
I think one of the things, particularly with the body rotation,
is people seem to just move their arms. They don't

(23:39):
realize that the upper body has to be engaged the
chest and the shoulders as well. So maybe you could
touch a little bit about that, and and how do
we what are some things maybe that we can do
to get our tempo going a little bit more smoothly
than sort of just poking at the golf ball.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah, And you know, when you come to tempo, and
the way I look at that is tempo is a
result of the proper sequence of events, and then we
need to understand what the sequence of events are. And
as one of my mentors has described, Jim Hardy's talks
about there's two motors to the golf swing, and the

(24:12):
ball tells us what we need to do, one being
the balls to the side of us, and that brings
in to account the idea the body rotating, and so
there has to be a body rotation like this, creating
a circle that goes around us. Now, the other piece
to that is that the arms have to go up
and down, and that would be the second motor. Since

(24:33):
the ball's on the ground, the golf club has to
go up and down, and that's created by the arms.
So it's much like doing this. The arms swing up
and down and the body goes like this, And so
what we need to do is understand how do they
work together. And this doesn't matter whether this is a
full swing, whether it's a bunker shot, whether it's a

(24:55):
pitch shot, whether it's a small chip shot. The body
has to provid sufficient room for the arms to move
up and down. And what I mean by that is
if I turned this way and we were hitting a wedge,
a small intermediate webshot, and let's go with what Jamie
described a fifty to fifty that's going to have a

(25:17):
little bit of body rotation in the arms are going
to swing up about say, waist high. And then on
the through swing, the body's going to rotate this way
and the arms are going to swing up about waist
tie on the through swing. Now, when we get out
of sync of that is when we get that jabby

(25:37):
type of a golf swing where this has gotten.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
In the way.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
It hasn't made the room here, so the arms didn't
have a place to go. Now they try to do
their job, but they don't have a place to do
it in and so it becomes sort of a jerky motion.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
And that sort of a thing.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
And so we have to put those ideas together. And
so the sequence of events is this, the body makes
the room in the back swing. Now I have a
place for the arms to swing up as they're swinging down.

Speaker 7 (26:10):
Turn this way.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
I have to begin to make the room over here.
And so we get into trouble when maybe we don't
make the room in the back swing, or we don't
make their room in the through swing. And that does
this And much like Jamie was just saying, when we
lift up, we've lifted up because the body hasn't made
room over here.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
So we do.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Something like this where our body is kind of tilting
in that way. Club bottom's out behind it, it's going
up over the top of the ball, or it doesn't
bottom out at all because we have backed out of
it so much that we never meet the ground. And
so they're the body's trying to make the up and
down while the arms are trying to make the round.

(26:51):
We've got it mixed up, and so we have to
make that room. So if we think about the focus
of the golf swing.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
I make the room here.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
The arms go up and again, it doesn't matter whether
it's a full swing or a partial swing.

Speaker 7 (27:06):
The arms start.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Working down as the body's moving this way to look
at the target. And so when that sequence is correct,
the golf swing looks fluid and you hear they say, oh,
you make it look so easy. The golf professionals make
it look so easy. Well, they're working very very hard
in those actions. They just happen to have the sequence

(27:30):
of events happening in the right sequence. Many players who
struggle with that contact have either the arms doing the
around or the body doing the up and down, or
the body has stayed in the way and not provided
the room for the arms to do the up and down.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, that's a great way to explain that, because you're right,
and we often talk about this being out of sequence.
You know, something else that you see a lot of
play do, a lot of our amateur players do, is
they will try to compensate by increasing a big lateral shift.
In other words, if they don't go back, if they're
not making the correct turn as you're suggesting, and the

(28:12):
arms are not able to get up, they have to
find some way to compensate, and a lot of times
what they'll do is they'll thrust their hips forward in
order to get the body to open up again, and
the next thing you know, they've moved laterally so much
that the ball position changes. It could be changing two
three inches either way, depending on or they end up
falling back again because they haven't cleared the body or
cleared you know, things correctly. So you're exactly right, and

(28:35):
it's very interesting that that you brace that point, because
that's something I see a lot watching people up and
down the range. So some great points. Yeah, go ahead, can.

Speaker 6 (28:44):
Add something to that. Yeah, I thoroughly agree the sequence
of events and sequence gives tempo and timing and all,
and that's crucial. One of the things that I think
is important is the setup of our feet in our
short shuts and compared to longer shots. Longer shots, you know,
your feet are here, maybe I like them. We have
them just a little bit open so we can open

(29:06):
our hips and turn but you know, and then we
in a full swing. You you know, you get to
that hip out of the way, or if you're left,
to get your right hip out of the way, then
the club can come through and you finish up. As
Jim was saying, you got to kind of get your
body out of the way. In a short shot, we're
not looking for maximum distance. We're looking for optimum distance,

(29:28):
and it tends to be a relatively short distance. One
hundred yards in could be fifty to thirty twenty yards.
So we're not trying to make a power shot here.
And so I like to tell people to start with
their feet like this. If you're alrighty, turn them this way, lefty,
turn them that way. What does that do? It does
a couple of things. It already clears your hip, okay,
so you don't have to clear your hip, so you've

(29:49):
already made that room. Also, if i'm you know, this
way and I'm trying to shoot my ball that way
to the target. I already got that f I've set
that flow up so my feet are kind of in
the direction of the target and they're kind of parallel.
I believe that Dave Pel's teaches if the ball's right

(30:10):
in the middle here in the middle of my there's
my feet and the ball's here. Okay, set up and
then turn your feet this way. Just shift your center
for it. You wait a little bit for you a
little bit on your left foot. But he teaches here,
turn the feet this way. If you're left, you turn
the feet that way. Which way we're looking here in
the camera. But you know, but the idea is that
if you set up with your feet in the direction

(30:32):
of the green of the target of the pin, you've
already cleared your hip out of the way, You've made
room in your body as was talking about, for the
club to come through, and your your swing is flowing
right down the target line to the pin, basically to
your target.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah. Great point. And actually that was going to be
my next thing, was the set up in the alignment,
but you already covered that, so we don't need to
do that. Yeah, thank you. Guys, actually double team done
that one and actually give you letter perfectly into we
can actually no, you're you're right, I mean proper ball
position and and you know the other thing I'm just

(31:09):
going to point out real quick, and it is, you know,
a lot a lot of players get in the habit
with their wedges, particularly of standing too far away. They
think it's like they're playing their their longer clubs and
they stand me too far away and not moving that
shifting that weight a little bit onto the lead foot
again left uh foot for right handed golfers, right for

(31:30):
left handed golfers, not getting that weight distribution and and
obviously poor alignment. So you know, I like what you
you described there, Jamie, is about turning the feet, you know,
depending on which which way you golf, uh and sort
of presetting yourself up for success. That's you know, a
lot of times people don't set up correctly. And they

(31:51):
all to me, just as I was pointing out a
moment ago is try to compensate with their golf swing.
They're not set up properly, they're not making the correct turn,
so now they have to find a way. Okay, well
I went this way. I didn't get things correct in
the backswing, How am I going to get back over
here and through the ball?

Speaker 9 (32:08):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (32:08):
I got to do this. And they start you know,
falling back, or they start you know, leaning too far
this way or whatever happens, or they're standing up, and
so a myriad of things. So it goes to really
and that's why Nicholas talked about the fundamentals so much,
very much in his career, is that he always wanted
to work on those things, getting himself set up correctly
each and every time, so that he was setting up

(32:30):
for success. That doesn't mean he didn't hit a bad
shot occasionally, but more often than not, if he sets
up correctly from the get go, he has a greater
chance of success of hitting a good golf shot. And
that's really what he wanted to do. So we're gonna
come I'm gonna come back to go ahead real.

Speaker 6 (32:44):
Quick, just one real quick thing, you know. So here
we are this we got to hear, and then we
shift our way to our forward foot, as we said.
When that happens, your hands shift a little bit forward,
but they stay connected to your center. I see so
many people they're told, put your way down, your forward
foot and then they're like this, you know, when they
get their club like this, it's just crazy. Your hands

(33:04):
are way out here and it's just crazy. And the
it's supposed to go like this. It's just a little
shift for but keep connected there. Don't shift your hands
so that they're.

Speaker 7 (33:13):
All like this.

Speaker 6 (33:14):
That, uh, that happens a lot, I see. I think
people misunderstand when people when when they're a process, h
you know, put your hands a little forward to the
ball so you'll have this downward blow and all that stuff,
and they just get they they misalign their grip with
their body and they wreck that that they kind of
destroy the set of the successful setup.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think what a
lot of it boils down to is I think a misunderstanding.
You know, when we look at sort of how things
were taught years ago, I think people misunderstood some of
the terminology. You know, when they said about keeping your
head steady and that you know, it wasn't that you
were to lock yourself in place. It was just you
didn't want to be moving all over the place, and
obviously and you know, up and down that sort of thing.

(33:56):
So you know, people had to understand and there was
a way of describing things. But people they start to
learn more about biomechanics and how the body actually works
and the different different bodies that are out there, and
how things can differ for each player. I think, you know,
instructors have a much better understanding than maybe what they
did thirty years ago. So there's a lot of factors involved. Jim,

(34:16):
I'm going to come back to you as we get
close to our time here shortly. And that is really
club and some of the equipment areas one of them
is and this is one. God love them, but I
see a lot of people out there, not only playing
with some dirty grous but some worn out grows. They
have wedges that they've had since Ben Hogan days and

(34:37):
they just love that. You know, that old wedge, it's
it's done them good, but they can't hit it worth
beans because it's past its prime. So you know, there
comes a point in time. Let's walk them through, what's
the process, what's the rule of thumb? For lack of
better words, when's it time to hang up that wedge?
And you know, put it in the archives and let's

(34:58):
dial in on some new ones. Give us on that
and dirty Grooves as well. That's another one. You see
clumps of dirt that ticked on from you know, five
rounds ago, and they just don't clean them. So give
us some tips what should do to keep our clubs
in good shape or get rid of think you.

Speaker 4 (35:12):
Make a great point there of just the simple fact
of keeping the golf club clean. The grooves are there
for a reason. The grooves are there to assist in
adding friction, and friction, as Jamie was talking about speed
or spin, friction is something that assists in creating spin. Now,

(35:33):
what is a rule of thumb of when we should
change these golf clubs. That's certainly different for all walks
of life. Example, I know Zach Johnson he changes his
wedges every three events. Now we in the general public,
that doesn't.

Speaker 6 (35:48):
Fit for us.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, good luck.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
But when.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
You start to see the shape of the grooves start
to change, that would be my ignal it's time to
make a change. And so what I mean by that
is as you're hitting shots, and I spent a lot
of time in Florida and now I'm in North Texas
and we have very sandy soil in Bermuda grass fairways

(36:15):
and that sort and that sand gets in there, and
it's friction in and of itself, and it starts to
wear those grooves down. And if they start to change
the edges of the groove, So if I try to
make it look like the grooves here and they start
to do this, you're going to start to lose the

(36:39):
effectiveness of that groove. It's going to accept more grass,
but it's going to also reduce the amount of spin. Certainly,
going back to the when square grooves came out and
Carston Solheim came out with the square grooves, and then
they were so sharp and did such a great job,

(37:04):
except they spun the cover off the golf ball and
it turned into a problem because when they went to
bebble those grooves a little bit to make them more
playable and endure the golf ball longer, that's when they
became non conforming to the USGA rule.

Speaker 7 (37:22):
The distance.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
There's there's a distance between the grooves and the distance
the groove is and that has to be a certain ratio,
and I don't know the math on all that, but
it has to be uh within their their their tolerances.
And so the change of the wedges when you start
to see that groove start to change shape. When you

(37:44):
start to see them discolor, those are all going to
uh give different performance levels to that golf club. And
so that's when I would start to look at changing them.
Uh So, uh the frequency I do it about once
a year personally, I mentioned Zach Johnson's every three events.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
It goes along with what you play.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
If you're out there playing, you know, fifty rounds of
golf a year, once a week, maybe once a year.

Speaker 6 (38:14):
Is a good choice.

Speaker 4 (38:15):
If you're out there playing ten rounds of golf a year,
maybe every two or three years could be the case.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
So it kind of goes to that player.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
But I think that key is when do they start
discoloring and when does that groove size start to change?

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, and I think it goes to the point I
made earlier is and as you just point out now,
is obviously the amount that you play. But I think
it's also important the beginning of each season, or certainly
at the end of the you know, the season, to
have a conversation with your professional that you're working with
and saying, okay, let's take a look. You know, I'm
playing a lot more golf. Now, let's look at the

(38:51):
equipment let's do an equipment check. Make sure not only
you know, are the grooves and so forth correct, but
let's make sure I'm using the right clubs. Are these
clubs going to give me the best benefit out there
based on my game? And that's the thing is, you know,
and I don't fault him for this, but I remember
years ago, and I talked about this on a show
not too long ago, and God love him, you know,
I always was a big fan of Tom Kite, and

(39:13):
Tom Kite was one of the first players I remember
really talking about having a lot of extra wedges. I
think he had four wedges in his bag, and you know,
everybody all of a sudden ran out, so I gotta
have four wedges. And but but the point was that,
you know, it may not be you know, that was
what worked for him, and it may not work. You

(39:35):
may only need two wedges, you may only need one wedge.
I mean, it really depends on your game. I mean,
this is a tour professional, and so this is something
that you have to be able to really have that
conversation with your golf professional early on the year. And
and you know, if you're not doing that and you're
just sort of you know, going out there and just

(39:57):
sort of mulling through each season and and like you said,
at the end of the year, you've got these wedges
that are just you know, beat to you know what,
You're not going to play your best golf, So it's
important to do that. But I wanted to just talk
about a few of the things here on tonight's panel
discussion because I think this is an area that really
gets overlooked because we really know the importance of the

(40:19):
short game, and there's just a lot of folks out
there that just don't really pay attention to some of
the points. And I know there's a ton of other
things that we could get into, but we'll save that
for another conversation, but we got to wrap it up.
I'm my time's getting close here, so I want to
thank both of you for joining me tonight on Coaches
Corner here and Golf Talk Live. And as always, I
give each of you a quick moment to let the

(40:40):
folks know the best way they can reach out. And
if there's any quickly that you'd like to plug, go ahead,
and Jamie ladies first, I'll let you go.

Speaker 6 (40:47):
I always say on the team men first. You know,
people can reach me at on my through my website
which is the centeredway dot com, centered edcenteredway dot com
and or Jamie jm i E at the centeredway dot com.
Email me look for me on LinkedIn or Facebook, Instagram,

(41:10):
Jamie Leno, Zim run l E and O and give
me a call. I'll send me a text which is
seven six oh four nine two golf four six five three.
I just want to say one quick thing. I always
talk about the principle of micro to macrocosm. So for me,
a short game and the short swing short shots swing

(41:31):
is sort of the microcosm, and it's the core of
the golf swing, and it leads to the macrocosmic big swing.
Most people want to hit their driver and they go,
I'm slicing my driver. I go, great, take out your wedge.
I mean, if we can really just groove in that core,
you know, the microcosmic swing, you're gonna get a good
short game and you're set up for a big, longer game.

(41:54):
So really, everybody take your time practicing short shuts.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Well said, and Jim Funny, how can the folks reach
out to you and anything quickly? If you want to
plug and thank you again?

Speaker 4 (42:05):
Ted for having me on the show, and Jamie, it's
been great to have you and be part of the
show with you as well. I can be reached on
my phone at four zero seven for six zero nine
four two zero, and you could also reach me at
j Indicott at PGA HQ dot com. And I'd love

(42:27):
to help anybody with their game, especially if you're in
North Texas or I travel to Orlando, Florida once a month.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
I'm going to take a quick commercial break and when
i come back, I'll be joined by this Evenings travel guest.

(43:24):
Welcome back everybody, and it's time once again for our
travel segment. Let me introduce both our co host and
travel export and then our very special travel guest of
the evening. First up, of course, is Robert Kaufman. He
is our travel expert and co host. He's an award
winning photographer for and golf and travel writer, golf media consultant,

(43:45):
and he's worked with a number of great publications that
says truon Golf and Travel Magazine, PJ Magazine and of
course Golf Tips Magazine, along with the host of others.
And if you want to see more of his great work,
you can visit his website Pitcherparfect dot com. Tonight's special
featured travel guests is Steve Cowen. He is the executive
director of golf at Win Golf Club in Las Vegas,

(44:07):
and as I mentioned, he is the executive director and
a role he has held since April of twenty twenty one.
He has served in similar capacities as the director of
golf at Dragon Ridge Country Club and as head professional
at the Southern Highlands Golf Club, where both clubs earned
accolades from various magazines and organizations, including Top one hundred

(44:28):
Golf Club's, Top one hundred Golf Shops and Facility of
the Year, and many other accolades as well. So let
me welcome both Roberts and Steve to the show. Guys. Welcome, gentlemen.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
How are you?

Speaker 7 (44:40):
Thank you? Okay if I call you Scott instead of Steve.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Please, yes, yeah, I didn't know what the what the
proper way to do that?

Speaker 6 (44:47):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (44:48):
All right, yes, okay, I'm my apologies. I don't know
why I had Steve written down. I apologized.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Fine, not a problem, okay, So I'm going to go
in there and we're.

Speaker 7 (44:58):
All friends here.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Absolutely absolutely, I can start over again and do the
whole thing if you want.

Speaker 7 (45:05):
Yeah, I want to hear my intro again. I love
hearing that every time.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, I forget it all my apologies. So here,
here's what I'm going to do is I'm going to
turn it over to Robert. Robert's gonna take over. He's
got some questions. I'm going to hang around and listen
to the conversation, and then I will jump in towards
the end as we get ready to wrap up. So Robert,
take it, take it away you and.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (45:29):
Thanks t well, Scott, thanks for coming on, taking the
time out of your first wity schedule mess the office,
whatever you got going on down there. So yeah, it's great.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Well, thanks so much for having me on.

Speaker 7 (45:42):
I'm sorry, thank you so much for having me on.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
I appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 10 (45:46):
No, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, you know, so let's just dive
right in.

Speaker 7 (45:52):
We don't have a lot of time, but I know
there's a lot to cover. So you've been there over
twenty five years in the Vegas area.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
Correct I have, yes, sir, Yeah, okay, all right.

Speaker 7 (46:03):
So you're really the ideal person to really talk to
you about the changes in the local golf scene during
your time there shut down. You've you've witnessed tremendous growth
and changes over the years, so we know we have
get a feel for some of your early memories and uh,

(46:24):
and and what the golf culture is like today.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
Well, the golf culture is certainly very strong still in
Las Vegas. We have unfortunately lost a few golf courses
due to the population growth here and business opportunities that
presented themselves, uh, you know, for housing and those sorts
of things. But the core of the golf courses are
still strong. We we have, you know, about thirty golf

(46:49):
courses that have public access here within the city and
many more in Mesquite and Saint George area, Laughlin and
surrounding areas. So I would say for the average golfer
coming into town that you probably have a selection of
about fifty golf courses to choose from. Some of them,
like ourselves, are right down on the strip. Well we're

(47:11):
the only one down on the strip, and others in
the surrounding areas as you can imagine, mostly around you know,
our communities that have been built here.

Speaker 7 (47:20):
So I wanted to ask you, you know, you touched on
being on the strip. I wanted to ask you about
that unique location, Sir, Can.

Speaker 10 (47:31):
You explain how the golf courses sustained itself with all
the demolishing of casinos and hotels and all the development
that has gone on.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
I think, honestly, it speaks to the fact or to
the to the reason that it's a very very special
piece of ground. There's been a golf course on this
property since nineteen fifty two. It was originally the Desert
Inn and then became When Golf Club, and then we
closed and we became Win Golf Club, as we refer

(48:03):
to it internally as Win two point zero. But we
have a very new golf course. It's a Fasio design.
It's you know, six years old, but we have eighty
year old trees on the property. So from that standpoint,
it's very very unique and it has to stay in
itself because I think we've made it a priority here,

(48:24):
certainly at Wyn. I know that mister Daylitz made it
a priority, you know, when they own the Desert in
and it was very much a part of the culture
of Las Vegas and always has been. A day doesn't
go by where people don't tell me stories about the
Desert in. In fact, today I'm not going to get

(48:46):
up and shift my point of view. But today I
actually met with a guest who brought me a fifth
helmet from the nineteen sixty four Tournament of Champions that's
signed by Nicholas and one of my heroes, George Knutson
and Gary Player and Sam Snead and all all those.
So it's the people love this property and and I

(49:06):
think that that's contributed greatly to our success here.

Speaker 10 (49:11):
Yeah, can you share any other old time stories. I mean,
you had the likes of Dean Martin, Sinatra and those guys,
you know, making the playground while they were down there
in Vegas.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, we were the playground for a lot
of celebrities of the nineteen fifties and sixties that you know,
we all love and dearly. We're currently building a new clubhouse,
but previously in our old golf space, we had all
these old pictures of two of my favorites of Bing
Crosby and Bob Hope putting with the likes of an

(49:45):
Arnold Palmer and and so yeah, it's part of the
lore that's here. And we were again the host of
the Tournament Champions from goodness. I don't even know the years,
to be honest with I think the last year was
nineteen sixty eight, maybe your sixty four were someone in
that time, and so you know, there there, this was
a happening spot for golf. It's it was a central

(50:09):
point of interest for for golfers and celebrities.

Speaker 5 (50:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (50:14):
Yeah, So, I mean I played, you know, a fair
number of the courses down that way. Unfortunately I haven't
played to win, you know, but viewing it online and
you know, just seeing all the you know, the streams
and the trees and the greenery and you know, the
water structure on number eighteen, I mean, I'm just imagining

(50:37):
if I were there, I wouldn't feel like I'm in
Las Vegas. But then you lift your head and look
around and see the skylines.

Speaker 7 (50:43):
Of the hotels and the sphere.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
Yeah, Robert, that's it exactly. I think the previous iteration
of Win Golf Club it was a much more from
a design standpoint, from what I understand. I truthfully, I
didn't see it. From what I understand, it was much
more saddled fairways. Trees were you know, bringing the trees
up so it blocked a lot of the views that
we have now. Now we've decided in wind point two

(51:09):
point two is that we're embracing the city. And our
fifteenth hole, for example, is a fairly simple straightaway par
four drive a little before the young guys, and it
wasn't a memorable hole, which is now probably one of
our more memorable holes because two hundred feet literally like

(51:30):
two to three hundred feet away is the sphere right
across the street. So especially when you're playing at dusk
and you know, the sphere can light up the fifteenth fairway,
for it lights up a lot of the golf course,
but fifteenth in particular, it just gives you a really
really unique experience that you can't get anywhere else. You
can't build it like this. So you know, we have

(51:53):
a wonderful view of the strip, wonderful views of our
hotel as well, and our new clubhouse that it's called
the cliff House. Desert in Cliff House is going to
highlight all of these spaces, wonderful spaces and views that
we have.

Speaker 4 (52:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (52:14):
So when when Fazio and I believe his son too
Logan yes, yes, came in and redid the course what
about seven eight years ago?

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Correct to twenty nineteen we reopened. Yeah, okay, yea twenty nineteen.

Speaker 10 (52:31):
So I mean they had to take they had to take,
you know, the eighteen holes. And again, you know, working
with a very small piece of property, what did they
do to you know, maneuver some of the holes? You know,
did they renovate, did they bring in make new holes,
or how did they structure that?

Speaker 3 (52:48):
So we have a very typical Fasio design from the
standpoint that it is intimate everywhere, and he is a
master of making you feel like you're in a large
space or an intimate space without those things being naturally available.
We lost twenty eight acres to our new Seuth Convention space,
which necessitated the redesign we have. We were able to

(53:12):
keep eight similar holes and or similar corridors and ten
new holes is basically what ended up happening. A renumbering
of the golf course. Number eighteen, for example, used to
be a very difficult par four. It is now an
incredibly challenging par three, two hundred and fifty yards from
the back. We have six we have six par threes

(53:36):
on the golf course. And I can assure you, for
a man in his fifties, I can't pip it out
at sixty seven hundred yards. It's all the golf course
that I want. I'm playing at sixty three sixty four
hundred yards and it's just fine for me and for
most of our guests at that standpoint. It's playful. It's
a typical resort golf course. It's not going to beat

(53:58):
you up. But as a golf professional or scratch golfer,
you're you're not going to shoot you know, you're not
going to shoot sixty three out here either. The greens
are are challenging, but they're fair. There's lots of wide
fairways and bailout areas, but it's going to leave you
a tricky second or third shot. So He's it's really

(54:18):
really well thought out. From all reports, the guests that
have come back to us having played win one point
zero to our new one, they like the design better.
We took out a lot of the flora on the
sides of the golf course. We had some heavy wildflower areas.
Those are all have all been eliminated and we now

(54:40):
play out of park. It's made the round much more
enjoyable because you can find and play your ball around
of golf here is four hours and fifteen minutes. I
mean you are from your hotel room to the first
t in ten minutes and back in your hotel room
within four and a half hours. It's it's wonderful, nice. Yeah,

(55:01):
it's great. It's what golf should be. And it's and
it's like I said, it's it's it's fun that the
players enjoy it. You know, they may have their best
round out here because it's so so much fun. And
it is. It is a decent challenge for us. We're
not it's not a it's not an easy golf course,
but it's not it's not the most difficult one you'll

(55:23):
ever play either. It's it's quite fun.

Speaker 7 (55:25):
No, and that's exactly what you want in a resort
course to.

Speaker 10 (55:29):
I mean, yeah, you go to so many of these
and they just eat you up and it's like you
never want to come back again.

Speaker 7 (55:35):
It's just not fun.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Exactly exactly exactly. I mean, we're we're all about experience
here and and that's one of the things I mean
for our guests, which is the luxury guest, time is
their currency, right, So we don't want somebody to be
out on our golf course for five and a half hours.
We don't allow shotguns or buyouts that are more than
eighty eight players because it affects our brand. Are the

(55:57):
way that people view their experience at when golf up.
So it's very very important the time aspect for us.
And we have a caddy with each group that's a
Win Golf Club employee that assists with getting people, you know,
moving through the golf course. You know, one other thing
that we do is we do twenty minute tea times

(56:17):
here so the guest feels as though they own the
golf course for the day. They don't feel like they're
being pushed, they don't feel like they're playing into a
group in front of them, and they finish in good,
good steads. So it's worked out really really well from
us from that sample. But it's been purposeful. We've thought
about these things because it's important to our guests.

Speaker 5 (56:38):
Right.

Speaker 10 (56:39):
So if we take the Win Golf Club out of
the picture, I mean, what would rank is maybe the
top three or four courses in the Vegas area that
one should really put on there must playlist.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
There are some really stunning golf courses here. The golf
course no no, no, no, there's some studying golf course. Listen,
we're We're Wing golf club is about a golf experience.
We're our goal is to become the best golf experience
in the world. We're working towards that. We are not
the best golf course in the world. We're maybe the
best conditioned golf course certainly up there for sure. But

(57:15):
Shadow Creek is a is a wonderful golf course, a
real test of golf, and it is you know, but
it's a forty five minute trip to out to the
golf course. It's it's a full day thing. But a wonderful,
wonderful golf course deserves all the accolades that it gets.
One of my favorites and and you know, dear to

(57:35):
my heart as Southern Highlands, I came out to Las
Vegas to help open up that property and in the
early two thousand and it's a wonderful Robert Trent Jones
Senior and junior design. Again, if you don't bring your
best game, you can get around the golf course, and
if you do, it's a really really fun golf round
of golf for you. It's a it's a high end

(57:58):
private golf course there. Shadow Is is certainly accessible through
the MGM group. Yeah, some of my some of my
other favorites. Uh, the Lake Las Vegas area is really underrated.
Seal Shore Golf Club is a private club that I
was also associated with for a little while with a
golf management company. Great Testa golf one of the best

(58:21):
views in Las Vegas, for sure, and I have not
played it, but Reflection Bay has reopened under new ownership
and it is equally stunning in terms of the views
out there and a fun round of golf from what
I recall.

Speaker 7 (58:34):
Yeah, that's actually one that I have been out to.
I think it was maybe it was just pre COVID
okay out there.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
Yeah, yep, yep, absolutely, So those are some of the
ones that that stand out in terms of quality. The
piout golf courses north of the city are always in
great shape and uh, we're about to go into overseeding
season here in Las Vegas. Uh, they always have one

(59:02):
of their three golf courses open during this time. So
that's that's certainly helpful if you like the history of
the game. Las Vegas National just down the street here
from us on Desert inn Is. I mean, there's so
much history there as well, and they've done a great job. Again,
I haven't been there in years. Truthfully, I work in
the golf business, so I don't play a lot of golf,

(59:25):
but I haven't been there in a while. But from
what I remember, they've got they've got they've got plaques
and and memorabilia everywhere. It's the home of the Las
Vegas Hall of Fame and so that's a fun golf
course to play. And then lastly, a private golf course
that has some public accessible times is Las Vegas Country Club,

(59:47):
another heavily treed, old school golf course that has a
lot of history, uh to, you know, tied to it.
So those are those are all fun. We have fun
golf here in Vegas.

Speaker 7 (59:58):
No you do. I mean the ones I've played there.

Speaker 10 (01:00:00):
You've got a pretty good variety and they're all they're
all good to play.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:00:06):
So kind of in summing up, what do you want
people to you know, they come to the wind golf
club or the hotel, what do you want them to
walk away.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
With indelible memories? I want them to remember the the
the indelible memories that they created with other people on
the golf course, whether it was the people that they
brought or the caddies that guided them through, you know,
through the round. I can you know, we'll guarantee them

(01:00:35):
fantastic conditions. We reinvest in our golf course. We have
two fantastic superintendents here that are not classically trained, but
have been on the property for over twenty years, know
the soil, know the grass, you know, and our conditions
have never been better, even in the summer. I mean,
we have one hundred and ten golfers tomorrow, which is

(01:00:55):
an extraordinary day for us. We have just kept going,
you know here through the summer because our conditions are
are really great. So you're going to get conditions, You're
going to get service without a doubt inside the hotel
and and out, and then also convenience. There's no other
place in the entire city where you can again be

(01:01:18):
from your hotel room to the first team ten minutes,
where your spouse or partner can go and keep themselves
busy while you're playing. And so that is again for
our customer, our luxury customer, that's a really vital, vital part.
Being from the high end private background, we try to
teach or we try to take care of our guests

(01:01:41):
as if they were members. We try to create relationships
with these these folks and we want them to come
back because there are you know, our most important guests.

Speaker 7 (01:01:52):
Yeah, absolutely good. Well, I can't wait to get there
one day.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
So yeah, hopefully, hopefully we'd love to see you.

Speaker 7 (01:02:00):
Thank you? Uh kid, you got anything you want to
throw in there?

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Well, first off, let me apologize again. It's Scott Cowan.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
That's okay, that's okay, Todd and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Tim and whatever. I just figured that's are for the course.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
I give you credit though, because you asked how to
pronounce my last name, so I know that you're focused
on that and I appreciate it very much.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Yeah, I just wrote it down wrong in my notes
that I apologize again. Scott. Let me tell you I've
I've been to Vegas. I didn't go this year. Normally
I would go in the midsummer. I've been probably the
last decade. I think I left a few dollars in
the wind casinos, so I have to come back and
get some of that beautiful property. I've never played the

(01:02:46):
golf course, definitely. I would love an invite to come
out and and enjoy that facility and absolutely, you know,
and play some some great golf. But uh, what I
wanted to ask you is when when is the best time?
Obviously summer, it's you know, it's quite warm in Las Vegas. Understandable.

(01:03:08):
What is sort of your peak, uh season, if you will,
what's the best times of the year. Obviously I would
imagine spring and fall, but what typically is is kind
of the best times if if somebody wanted to make
a trip.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Well, again, it depends when it depends from a golf standpoint,
purely a golf standpoint, You're you nailed it. It's you know,
we've got two in seasons, two shoulder seasons, et cetera,
et cetera, and then our off season is is essentially
the summer. But we haven't slowed down at all. Interestingly,
great thing about a trip to Vegas is there's lots

(01:03:44):
of things to do. And again I know that I
can only speak for my company, uh, but we are
very purposeful in making sure that the guest has you know,
live entertainment, that they have nightclubs, that they have great dining,
that they have great spas, et cetera. Like there's something
for everyone here. You know, it's a it's a safe space.

(01:04:08):
It's ah it's comfortable here. I don't know how else
to describe it. You you walk in to win, and
you're you're wowed by the beauty of the building, by
the kindness of the people that are in the building.
I've never worked with a better I've worked with some great,
great people, but as a whole, never worked with such
a competent staff that have hospitality in their heart. So

(01:04:33):
it's it's it's wonderful. It's wonderful here. So, uh, short
answer is fallen spring. But but the layer onto that,
there's so much more that goes into your decision of
when you're going to come.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 7 (01:04:48):
And you have your golf cart.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
I'm sorry, sir.

Speaker 7 (01:04:53):
Do you have misters on the golf carts?

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
We we don't have misters. No, we don't have misters
on the golf cart. No. Yeah, we have built in speakers.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
I've been out there in the heat of July, so
I know how hot hades out there. But all cutting aside,
you know, it's definitely a great place, and I concur
I mean again, I have not played the golf course yet.
I'm looking forward to uh, as I said, uh, you know,
hopefully an invite to maybe here in twenty twenty six
to come out in the spring or something. But but

(01:05:29):
I can attest to the wind resort, the hotel and
and the fine dining, and that it is breath taking
walking into the lobby and through the whole property. It's
just a beautiful property. So it's definitely worth worthwhile. And
you're right there, I think the better end of the strip,
to be honest. So yeah, I mean close walking everything,

(01:05:50):
so lots of things to do and if you're happen
to be a golfer, uh, you've got everything right there
at your fingertips and obviously great staff to help you.
But what's the website of people want to get more information? Scott?
Where can they go to do that?

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
What's the website when when Las Vegas dot com all
the information is there. We have wonderful cost here staff
as well that you can call at seven oh two
seven seven zero seven thousand. They'll take great care of
you and direct you in the place that you need
to go. And we hope, we hope we have an
opportunity to host you here.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Well, I'd love to much. I appreciate it, Yeah, appreciate it, Scott,
Thank you very We're gonna take another social Greek and
when I come back, I'll be joined by this evenings
featured guest will be right back.

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Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
All right, welcome back everybody, and as I said, it's
time to bring on this Evening's featured guest. I'm very
excited to have her back on the show. And it's
actually under our new format, so I get to see
her this time as opposed to just hearing her on
the audio, if you will, so I get to actually
have a face to face sort of speak here on
the broadcast. Of course, I'm talking about Nancy Robatai. She

(01:07:29):
is the chief designer and also lead brand strategist for
Swing Control and she's a very fashion forward golf and
lifestyle apparel. Swing Control as a company and has expanded
the scope of veteran designer and as I mentioned, Nancy
roll to include brand manager. Now in this new dual capacity,

(01:07:51):
she will continue to lead the creative direction well, taking
on a broader responsibility for the brand strategic growth and development.
And since joining the company in twenty two twenty three
as a lead designer, she has infused Swing Control collections
with her signature blend of polished performance and modern femininity,
which I just love to death. So please welcome to

(01:08:12):
back to the show, Nancy Robatai. Nancy, thank you for
joining me tonight.

Speaker 5 (01:08:16):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
I appreciate it. And I think the best way to
sort of start things off is maybe if you could
give us just a brief overview of Swing Control as
a company, just so that we have for those that
maybe didn't hear the first few times that you've been
on the show, maybe you could just talk a little
bit about Swing Control, who they are, how they got started,
where they're located, and just sort of bring us up

(01:08:40):
to where we are today, and then we'll get into
some more specifics.

Speaker 5 (01:08:44):
Sure, I'd be happy to swing Control. Actually, we're based
in Montreal, Canada. It was started about two thousand and
nine and we started as a women's bottoms company. We
did an amazing job with that.

Speaker 7 (01:08:59):
We did.

Speaker 5 (01:08:59):
We were producing in Canada, so all the product was
Command of Canada, and about twenty sixteen they decided to
kind of expand into the golf market. It was a
really good time to make that move. And they continued
with the pants and they created these pants that were
pull on pants, like slip on pants, but we have

(01:09:20):
like a tummy control that is built in, so they're
incredibly comfortable. They're very easy to wear all day. And
then as we grew with the collection, we decided to
add tops and grow with that. So when I came
on in twenty twenty three, my objective was really just
to kind of grow the golf market and to bring

(01:09:42):
us into a more golf centric atmosphere, you know, creating
collections that women want to wear all day, that we
can wear at the office, go play golf, go out
for drinks after, or go have dinner with the family.
Things that are very easy to wear all day and
that stay chris and clean. Also, the idea was to

(01:10:04):
bring in more fabrics that were were functional, so moisture
waking fabrics, fabrics that were easy to wash and dry,
that kept their shape, that were you know, SPF fifty
so they covered you when you're outside in the sun
all day. So all of those things I'm trying to
bring into the forefront while still creating a really cohesive,

(01:10:29):
fun and beautiful collection.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
You know, it's interesting because you know when I look
back at where golf fashion was, you know, even ten fifteen,
maybe twenty years ago, you know, everything was pretty much
one hundred percent cotton or some cotton blend. And as
you sort of alluded to that, there's so many different

(01:10:55):
materials now that are coming in moisture, wick and so forth.
And I'm obviously certain no expert on it, but you know,
there's just so many other things. The flexibility. You know,
when I remember years ago buying you know, golf shirts
as a man, you know, one of the big things
was keeping the callers looking nice, you know, when you

(01:11:15):
had to wash it again, being one hundredercent caught and
everything would shrink all the time, so it would never
stay and it would get all and you know, I
mean men are obviously not as hell as fitness or
as fashion conscious as women are, but you know, we
like to look good out in the golf course too
when your stuff is all skewed. And that when I
look at the technology and it is really technology that
is coming into the fashion business now, it just blows

(01:11:37):
me away. And just how great the the the the
wehear ability is and sover So I want to ask
you something because this always just amazes me. So, you
guys have really grown over the years. You mentioned two
thousand and nine, I think I heard you correct, is
when things sort of got it got started up in Montreal,
beautiful city by the way, for the listeners out there,
if you've never been, you need to hop your behinds

(01:11:58):
up there because it's a beautiful city. But you guys
have grown rapidly over the years. How do you manage
to stay on top of the current trends? I mean,
everything changes so fast in every industry, but particularly in
your industry. How do you guys manage to stay on
top of things?

Speaker 5 (01:12:13):
So it's a lot of research. It's a lot of research,
just like anything else. It's the glamour aspect is about
one percent of it, and the fun of it is
about ninety nine percent of the research is really fun.
So what I do is I really pay attention to
what's happening overseas. Europe Asia is another. What's command of Asia,

(01:12:36):
especially as far as fabrics are concerned, what's happening seeing
in Germany, Switzerland, just Israel has incredible fabrics. So all
of those things are in my day to day life.
Like I'm always conscious of what's happening. I read a
lot of newspapers. I'm very up on current events because

(01:12:58):
I have to know if we're developing the products in
Vietnam or China, what our tarofts are, what it's going
to how long is it going to take to get here?
Are we going to have issues with, you know, bringing
the product in from the factory, How long is it
going to take.

Speaker 6 (01:13:13):
Is there going to be.

Speaker 5 (01:13:15):
A delay somewhere along the lines. So all of those
things I have to be aware of and have to
let the team know, let's be conscious of this, and
we're all very conscious of it. As far as the
fabrics are concerned, the most important thing is really is
comfort and the hand feeler of them. If they don't
feel good, I really won't put it into the collection.
And most importantly we added for twenty twenty five, we

(01:13:39):
added what we call the airspun pant, which is it's
a really high end take on say, you know, a sweatpant,
but it's just very clean, very stylish. And again with
the tummy control, because all of our pants still have
the tummy control in it, and whether you're a size
zero or your size sixteen, it's really comfortable and it's
something that's easy to wear and to to get used to.

(01:14:03):
I wear a lot of our pants in the office
along with our tops, but the pants too, and I
combine them with button ups and things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
So the.

Speaker 5 (01:14:12):
Combination and the comfort really.

Speaker 6 (01:14:14):
Works for me.

Speaker 5 (01:14:15):
It has to work for me for me to put
it into the collection, it has to be comfortable. I
literally try on every sample that we have it comes
to the door. I make sure that it fits properly.
I make sure that it's comfortable. I make sure that
the length is correct. So I'm very very hands on,
and I think that makes all of the difference because
I can immediately tell the team if there's a problem

(01:14:39):
or if we need to adjust, and we can adjust on.

Speaker 6 (01:14:42):
The fly, so.

Speaker 5 (01:14:45):
As far as say, like the way callers fall, especially
for women, because our collors can be we can have collors,
or we can have like an almost an open neck
with just a very short band collar. We have to
make sure that it doesn't fall too low if you
bend over and pick up. If our dresses are too short,
they're not comfortable. And we also have their little shorts
to go underneath with the pockets. So all of those

(01:15:07):
things are very very important to keep to kind of
keep in the back of my mind, and I just
am constantly watching what people are wearing. Montreal is a
very fashion forward city. I could just walk outside our
building and see the most amazing street where you've ever seen.
So all of that kind of goes into the day
to day process of how we design the collection.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
You know. And it's interesting because it kind of brings
me to this thought here and you sort of answered it,
but I just want to maybe get you to expand
a little bit more on it. And you know, you
said that you obviously try things on. You want to know, hey,
if it's going to work for me, then you know,
I want to I'm going to certainly consider putting it
into the collection. If it doesn't, you know, not so much.
So have you ever looked at a design that's come

(01:15:51):
through or even maybe looked at fabrics and thought to yourself,
not so much? And if so, I mean you don't
have to get specifics, but you know what, what you
indicated some of the criteria. But when that happens, is
it is it mainly because it just doesn't feel right
or you don't think it's going to look right, or

(01:16:11):
it's not going to be as functional as what you hope, Like,
what are some of the real top criteria that you
look at to make it make or break whether something's
going to get into the line. Besides obviously you feeling comfortable.

Speaker 6 (01:16:23):
Good question.

Speaker 5 (01:16:24):
So what happens is we when we receive samples. First
of all, I send in my designs to the factory,
we send them overseas they create samples for us. So
what sometimes designs on paper look fantastic, but once you
get them into fabric, they really don't. That's happened before.

(01:16:45):
It's sometimes like you, I create pockets that have different
welts in the back of them, different colors, and you
put it on and it looks like you have two
eyebrows over your bum I mean it really, I mean
we found that out this year. How that looked horrible.
That went out the door really quickly. But the idea was,
you know, it was a really great idea on paper.

(01:17:06):
So so it's visual, it's fit. It's whether the buttons,
like even though their pull on pants will do like
a faux fly and will do a button fly. How
does this work? Does it fall properly? Is it centered?
That's another one, like can they get the can they
get the fly centered? Make sure that it's perfectly even?
Uh there, it's it's just a little it's a little details.

(01:17:30):
It's how how it sits on your body. We also
this season, which I thought was really fun, is we
put a little bit of elastic in the ends of
our pocket openings. So what happens is if you put
your pants in the puff your hands in the pants pocket,
it gives you a little bit more stretch. So that
also gives you a little bit more hip stretch. At
the end of the day, if you've born the pants

(01:17:51):
for all day or you know, for a good six
to eight hours, your whole body expands by the end
of that time. What that does is it gives you
more comfort and more strategy. It makes the fabric move
with you better, and it makes the fabric and the
garment more comfortable. So we added that into all of
our sports in our pants this season, and I love

(01:18:13):
the idea of it because they can be colored, we
can contrast the color, we can make them matching, we
can do all kinds of things with them. But it's
really a functional item and piece that we've added to
the to the bottoms that make it better and more
comfortable for a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Where you know, and just play Devil's Advocate, I guarantee
it there would have been somebody that would have worn
those pants even with that look. There's there's always something
for somebody. But you know, I get that now. I
was just curious because you know, when you think about it,
people don't really appreciate what goes into putting together a
line like yours. I mean, when we look at it,

(01:18:51):
we say, well, that's pretty simple. I mean, I don't
see what the big deal is. But then when you
put it on and you're and I mean, obviously you
have a men's collection. I'm not talking, I'm not going
to put on the women's wear, but you know, you know,
people are looking at it and they're saying, Okay, this
is a very simple design, but it's comfortable. I can
mix match, I can wear whatever, And that's very important

(01:19:13):
to a lot of people this day and age. We're
going to talk about that in a moment, but I
want to ask you something as far as demographically. You know, traditionally, obviously,
women have dominated the fashion market as far as steering
where trends go and things like that, and I think
more and more men are starting to take a bigger
role as far as that. But are you seeing also

(01:19:35):
other demographic graphics like age? Are you seeing a younger
generation being more influential in lines like yours now we're
coming through and are you having to pivot to that
or are you still pretty traditional in And I don't
mean when I say mature women, I'm not saying necessarily
sixty above or anything. But typically with golf attire, when

(01:19:55):
it first came in the market, it tends to stick
to a more older demo graphic. But now you're seeing
a lot of younger trends coming into the lines. Is
that something that you guys are looking at seriously or
have been looking at or has that always been part
of swing control.

Speaker 5 (01:20:12):
Well, it's always been pro swing control, but the demographics
have changed a little bit. So before the it was
more of a missy line when we were doing bottoms,
so missy meaning anywhere between like forty and sixty five.
Now we're looking at something in our age between thirty
and fifty five. So if yes, it does change. And

(01:20:33):
one of the one of the key things that changed
just recently is the scot length. Scortlengths have been predominantly
twenty inches to eighteen inches. Well now you're looking at
scot lengths going up to sixteen, fourteen and twelve inches
depending on the course, and we're seeing a lot of
Depending on where you are in the country, the score

(01:20:56):
lengths changed dramatically. It depends on which course you have
you're playing. If you're playing the more traditional course, your
square length would probably be about twenty to eighteen inches,
but if you're playing at a more progressive course, your
square length is sixteen to fourteen inches. So we're seeing
a lot of the ladies change that length, being more

(01:21:17):
comfortable wearing a shorter length. It's easier to I'm not
gonna say it's easier to walk in because obviously all
of them are very comfortable to wear, but they do
the fitness level has changed quite a bit, so I
think women that play golf are usually have a tendency
to be fairly fit and active, and they do want
to show off their bodies. So we've really kind of

(01:21:40):
put that into into the collection where we've shortened our
dresses a bit. Our dresses are about thirty five inches long,
so from that's from the top of the shoulder to
the end of the bottom of the dress, and.

Speaker 6 (01:21:53):
We've also.

Speaker 5 (01:21:55):
We've also you know, shortened the sports, so prenominally our
sports are six inches. We do have requests for longer ones,
but we also have requests for shorter ones too, So
I'm for right now, I think the sweet spot is
about sixteen inches, will stay probably close to that, but
we will offer a longer length as well. So yes,

(01:22:18):
the answer to the question is yes, we do watch
what happens with the younger generation, what they're asking for,
what they're wearing, consistently watching what's going on in the market,
but trying to really find that fine line between what's
really fashionable and then what's comfortable and what can actually
be worn on the course. We still have to consider

(01:22:39):
that it is above collection. Can we put out there
that can be worn and that can be sold in
the pro shop and the ladies feel comfortable.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Wearing, you know. And it's interesting because when you look
at the trends over the last decade or so in
golf in general, you're seeing more and more women coming
to the game than ever before. I mean, if you
look at the National Golf Foundation as an example, I
mean most of the new Now, it may have changed
in the last year or so, but for for a
long time, it was anywhere from thirty five plus percent

(01:23:10):
of all new golfers were or actually it was probably
higher in that and I think it was a third
of those. We're in that sort of sweet spot of
the thirty to fifty five now, whereas before it was
traditionally older women that were getting into golf because of
their husbands were playing or whatever. And believe it or not,
as tragic as it was, COVID played a role as well,

(01:23:30):
because you know, as you know up in Canada and
here in the States, you know, everybody was in lockdown
mode for a while, and golf was one of the
very few activities that you were permitted to get out
and do whatever, and it brought a lot of people
in that never were exposed to the game. And I've
noticed in women's golf particularly that it's it's become more

(01:23:56):
fashion forward in what they were out in the golf course.
They want to look good, they want to look good,
they feel good. They're young, they're youthful, what have you,
they're you know, their vitality is is you know there,
and they want to get out there and it's not
just about playing, it's about looking good while playing. So
I can see that's going to be as time goes on,
that's going to be more and more of a progressive

(01:24:18):
move as well.

Speaker 3 (01:24:19):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
And even the young guys are getting a little more
trendy out there too than what you know, some of
the old guys like me were forty, you know, thirty
forty years ago, So I can see that changing things
as well. So you mentioned a couple of things that
were new for this year's lineup, But what is what
are some of the biggest changes, UH this season compared

(01:24:40):
to say last season.

Speaker 5 (01:24:42):
Some of the biggest changes are like, definitely the more
sports that we had the short of the length. We're
really using that across the board.

Speaker 3 (01:24:57):
More.

Speaker 5 (01:24:57):
It's more about I wouldn't see so much ABO changes.
It's more about using what we know is going to
work for everyone and what we've what we've tried and
tried and tested and found true to what UH is
swing control, So it's about more about comfort. We've really
pushed the envelope as far as dresses are concerned, and

(01:25:20):
because dresses are really new for women in the market.
So we did this really cute little polo dress for
last season with the little shorts that matched UH, and
this season we're adding on to the dresses, but they're
a little bit more. They're a little bit more off
course dresses, so they're really fun to be worn in
the morning when you're going to the office and then

(01:25:40):
you can go play. So we're doing things that a
little bit more, a little bit more fashion forward as
opposed to sport centered, where the BKA dress was really
sports centered. So those things we're we're working on. But basically,
really it's keeping the comfort level high and using the

(01:26:01):
fabrics that we know that are actually you know, comfortable,
working wash well wherewell that print well, I create a
lot of the prints that we do for our collections,
so I'm very conscious of that as well. And I
go from really large prints to some in some areas
to very small ones that are you know, little hand
drawns and drawings, so those those things are most what

(01:26:26):
we're doing. For twenty twenty six, we did this really cute,
kitchy little dress with big hearts on it and golf
balls that match for the season in this great like
shocking pop art pink, green and white, so Preppies coming
back for us for twenty twenty six, which I absolutely adore.
That was really big for me when I was younger,

(01:26:48):
and it seems to really have resonated with everyone at
this point, we've noticed that it's done exceedingly well. And
then we did for one of our next drops our
color stories, was like a black in silver group and
then a navy and red group, so very traditional colors,
but just done in a way that is very traditional,

(01:27:10):
but with a kick to it. It's got something that
makes it really exciting and cute. And that's that's where
we're headed. So I don't want to go I don't
want to be absolutely crazy off the mark. I want
to make something that someone's going to pick up and go,
I really love this. I can wear this to this, this,
and this, as opposed to I can only wear this.

Speaker 6 (01:27:28):
On the course.

Speaker 2 (01:27:29):
I want to for people to sort of have a
better understanding of kind of how this works for you.
I don't think people really you know, they think, okay,
we'll fall fashion, But you're actually starting this well in advance.
It's not like you're starting the month before. You're starting
months ahead of time, if not even you know, the
previous year and getting ready for next season's collection. How

(01:27:50):
do you guard against because again, I know you're looking
at trends and things like that, but for instance, like
you know, fashion kind of went from traditional colors and
you know, blues, reds, you know, that's thing, and then
you started seeing more pastel colors coming in. Then you
see a mixture of blend. Now it's sort of moving
back to more of a traditional colors. As you just
pointed out, how do you guard against because I mean,
you've got things coming out and let's say, okay, for

(01:28:13):
twenty twenty six, you're going to more traditional colors. What
happens by the time the line comes out and people
start saying, well, I want to start wearing pastels again,
you know, or something. I mean, I know, I'm just
making trying to make it simple as possible. But how
do you guard against that, because that's got to happen
from time to time where by the time your line's
coming out, and I know it's not just for you,
but for everybody that things because they're changing so fast,

(01:28:36):
how do you how do you avoid I guess that
or or I guess it's just the luck of the draw.

Speaker 5 (01:28:41):
Well, it is a little bit of like those there are.
It's a lot of research, but Pantom puts out color
stories and color popular colors that will be for the
season a couple of years before. Okay, so we look
at all of those and we take those into consideration
for us, So we can't always use the colors that

(01:29:02):
they're they're pushing, but we can use a form of
the color or you know, one of you know, a
tone of the color that they are introducing. So basically
that's what a lot of designers follow because that keeps
us in the trend. But it also if you know
how to use it for what you're doing. So for golf,

(01:29:23):
you really want to keep things a little bit more
bright a little bit more fun and easy to easy
to coordinate with what you already have in the closet.
So those are my thoughts when I see it. So, yes,
it's sometimes it's a big it's a big like step
into the unknown. But most of the time, if you

(01:29:43):
do your research enough and well enough in advance, because
we really have the collection down a year in advance.
You have to remember it takes like three or four months,
three months to make fabric, it takes another couple of
months to produce the collection overseas, and then we have
to ship it here and that's it could be anywhere
from weeks to a month and a half on water.
So there's a lot of movement, a lot of logistics

(01:30:06):
that go into how to do the collection, and that's
something you have to be really conscious of, especially if
we're doing anything so for private label or anything along
those lines, because you have to be really conscious of
when those gorments have to be in the stores. So
there are a lot of a lot of research articles

(01:30:26):
out there that help us along the way. You just
have to kind of make sure you do your research. Again,
it's research, research, research, It's I don't tell you.

Speaker 6 (01:30:35):
That in school.

Speaker 5 (01:30:35):
I always try to tell you that it's really fun
and you know that there's all kinds of stuff that
you can do and it's exciting, and you know, there's
all this recognition, but it really is it comes down
to research and you spend a lot of time with
fabrics and colors and trying to figure out what you know,
how to put them all together to make this collection work.
And that's when that's when the magic happens. Yeah, when

(01:30:56):
it all comes together.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
Well, and that's why people don't reason I mentioned, because
people don't really understand. It's like with any business. You know,
you have your R and D department, you know, for
equipment and things like that, and I mean they're they're
spending years in preparation for things that products that may
be coming out, and you guys are doing the same.
And that's why I wanted people to have a little
bit of an understanding, because if you've got something that's
coming out for spring of twenty twenty six, you know,

(01:31:19):
it's not actually coming out in spring, it's actually coming
out before, in ahead of So then when you back
it up, you know several months for you know, you know,
doing the research and getting the product and then getting
it over and then trying it out and and you know,
and a whatever, and you have to kind of go
back sometimes. I mean you could be looking what, as

(01:31:40):
you said, a minimum of six months to a year before, right,
is that? I mean it might vary for certain components,
and maybe some seasons, you know, because you're always making
some changes, some seasons may not require as much, uh,
you know, change because trends maybe you're not you know,
moving as much. I mean they are moving quite a bit,

(01:32:01):
but so you have some flexibility. But I don't think
people really realize how much, like you said, preparation and
how much research goes into this. They just see the clothes,
you know, in the online or in the stores or
what have you, and I don't think they fully appreciate
what goes on behind the scenes. There's a lot of testing,
there's a lot of you know, checks and balances that

(01:32:23):
have to be done before line comes out. And it's
just always fascinating to me when I see that, and
I see companies like Swing Control and what you have
to go through just so that you know, the ladies
can look good out in the golf course. And I'm
not forgetting the guys because no, you do have some
guys line as well. I'm hoping that you're going to
increase that as time goes on. We need to look
good too. We're tired of you guys always getting the

(01:32:45):
better of the of the mix, and we're always sort
of slapping around looking like a bunch of old you know,
rusty old dogs or something on the golf course. So
we need you to step it up a little bit
at swing control for us guys. But now you guys
have got some great stuff. So what's the most challenging part.
I know the research is difficult. You talked about that.
What's the most challenging part of your job you think,

(01:33:07):
and what's the most rewarding part.

Speaker 5 (01:33:11):
The most challenging part of my job is the start
is getting started, and everything kind of ruminates in my
head for a while before I start, I've been thinking
about it or seeing it, and before I can even
put it into the computer and get my drawings down,
it takes a while to kind of put that all together.
So the hardest part is really sitting down and going, okay,

(01:33:35):
put it on paper. See how this looks like the
Welt pockets with the contrast color. That was a really
good idea until it wasn't. So it's really that's the
hardest part getting started, getting the samples, in checking them,
making sure they fit properly, all of that. The most

(01:33:55):
rewarding part is actually seeing people that I don't know
where the product and loving it. The most rewarding part
is talking to people and saying, you know what, I
have been wearing Swing Control since twenty fifteen. It is
it is a hidden gem. It's got a cult following,
and I love it and if you know, you know.
And I was taken aback by that because I was like,

(01:34:18):
I didn't realize how important the overall fit and look was.
Two women who have been wearing the collection for so long,
and that that is the most rewarding. And when you
see joy in people's faces that they actually love something,
or when they pick it up and they're like, oh
my god, that is so beautiful or that is just
so much fun to wear, or I love the way

(01:34:41):
to the fabric, or the fabric feels so amazing and
those things make me happy.

Speaker 6 (01:34:47):
Like that.

Speaker 5 (01:34:48):
That is just the culmination of the year and a
half that it's taken to put the collection together. It
could take two weeks just to find a button that
you really like or that works a zip. I mean,
all of those things, all of the trends are kind
of like the icing on the cake. Those are all
the pieces that really pull it all together. So that

(01:35:09):
takes a long time to work with. So when you
see it all come together and you see people wearing
it and you see the joy that it brings, that
do that overrides everything else.

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
Yeah, it's the attention. You raised some really good points there.
The attention is in the detail. I mean, you know,
it's not just you're slapping things together and it's a
material and that I mean everything from the buttons to
as you said, the zipper and other components as well.
I mean there's a lot of thought process that goes
into that, because again, it's not just about being comfortable.
It has to look at it. And I think would

(01:35:41):
this be I guess a fair and accurate statement that
even though you guys typically would consider yourself a golf
fashion company, it's really evolved more than that because it's
almost a lifestyle now. As you said, it's no longer

(01:36:03):
just you know, for the golf course. You kind of
talked about this early and you've mentioned this obviously previous
times E've been on the show where swing control has
now become not just okay, here's what we got for
the golf course, but you can wear all or a
combination of these things in your business life and your
you know, personal life, going out for dinner, getting together,

(01:36:24):
you know, with their girls for drinks or whatever the
case mean. So is it fair to say then that
you guys are not just a golf fashion company anymore,
but you're really a lifestyle brand.

Speaker 5 (01:36:36):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely we are. It is definitely lifestyle. It
is part of the way I design is that one
season blends into the next, so there's no there's no
pieces that don't work together or that they can't find
another piece that doesn't work together. So that's what's really

(01:36:58):
been fun with with members and teams, so they can
always the women can have these great team looks and
then they can change them out for the next season,
but you still have a shirt that could works with
the bottom or a bottom that works with a new shirt.
So all of those things are really well thought through
and thought out. So we just want to you know,

(01:37:21):
for instance, I wore a pair of Fall twenty four,
my first collection Fall twenty four the snakeskin pants that
we did the print the other day to the office
with a button down shirt and one of my colleagues
is like, oh my god, are those hours And I
was like, yeah, of course they are, and what do
you think? And they're like, that is the cool They
look great, and I know this is what this is

(01:37:41):
the idea. They're still really comfortable to wear on the course,
but I can wear them to the office and people
are like, wait a minute, there they're double checking to say.
You know, they obviously know our collection, but when you
wear it in a different way, it creates it creates
more interests. So we are absolutely more than just a
golf collection.

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
Yeah, and I think that's what's what I've noticed has
really changed a lot, because you know, I go down,
as I know you guys do, to the PJ Show
every year in Orlando, and you know, I look at
what people are wearing, and I look at from season
to season, and and again, obviously the women's apparel side
of things is much bigger in every demograph. I mean,

(01:38:22):
it's not just golf, it's everywhere. And again that's probably
why you guys all look so great and we look
like a bunch of trolls. But now you know, I'm kidding,
But you know, it's just the diversity of what I see.
And every year it's just the same thing. I mean
I've seen I've been to your booth, uh and that
down there, and I just see every season it's something different.

(01:38:45):
It's like, Wow, how do they keep coming up with
this stuff? I mean, it's like it's just amazing. I
you know, I give you and your team credit for
working so hard behind the scenes to just make it,
you know, uh, it different. And so again it goes
to your staff, it goes to the other team members
and ownership in that as well to say, okay, we

(01:39:07):
want to we want to put our best foot forward
every season, and yeah we might have started out one way,
but we're evolving into something different. Will not you know,
forgetting our roots if you will. I mean again, what
I'm referring to is obviously a golf fashion but again
becoming more of a lifestyle brand that people can wear

(01:39:28):
things and and golfers today. I mean I can look back,
you know, a decade or so ago, and you would
go to the golf course and you know, one outfit
and then you would you know, go and clean up
and whatever, you'd wear something different. And now with the
way golf is, and especially with the clothing because it
is moisture absorbing and it's even repelling. Now in some

(01:39:49):
ways you're not coming out feeling like a wet rat,
you know, because you're out heating that you're coming out
still very refreshed and like you did when you went
to the golf course in the morning. And so again,
people are more comfortable wearing these, you know, clothes in
different environments again throwing a jacket on if it's cooler out,

(01:40:10):
or throwing you know, maybe changing tops, but again keeping
the same pants or vice versa. So there's a lot
of versatility in that. So that's going to make you
guys feel extra proud, you know, you know, as you
go through the season to be able to see the
diversity of how your clothing is being weared. And just
as you point out the young lady who saw you wearing,
you know, a pant that you had from a few

(01:40:31):
years ago and saying, wow, is that one of ours?
Like that just got to really you know, send the
message home right, absolutely.

Speaker 6 (01:40:38):
It is.

Speaker 5 (01:40:39):
It was really funny. We both laughed and you know,
just a change of shoes would make a difference in
the pants one of my you'd be surprised at what
we were.

Speaker 6 (01:40:49):
At the office.

Speaker 5 (01:40:49):
So it's since even though we're a fashion brand and
we have two other lines under our header, you'll often
see everybody in the office with jeans and Verse and
a T shirt on the dress code because we don't
see a lot of buyers in the office. The dress
code is very casual, so it is funny when one

(01:41:10):
of us does wear something that's a little bit more
a dressy than normal, everyone takes notice, and then they'll
take even more notice if it was actually, you know,
a piece from one of our one of our previous collections. Yes,
so it's always fun to see that, but yes, of
course we those. It's important because even at the office,

(01:41:31):
you're sitting behind a desk all day, or you're up
and moving around, and we have a very large space
in our office building, so it's a very long walk
between say my office where I'm located, to the main office,
so we're always moving around and walking around, so you
want to make sure that they're really those those pieces
are really comfortable. So part of my trying on every

(01:41:53):
single sample is also wearing it all day to see
whether it wrinkles, to see whether it is comfortable all day,
to see whether the shape the knees stay the same shape.
All of those things are very important. And I found
that the airspun pants that we created, everyone was like, Oh,
I'm not so sure about how this was going to go,

(01:42:13):
Like how we're going to take it, because most of
our pants are pretty structured. I have quite a bit
of stretch, but there's still quite a bit structured. These
are very light weight and pull on and they're so cute,
so they're really comfortable to wear with sneakers or which
with like shoes, regular shoes, and I love that. I
think that's really fun to wear at the office. So

(01:42:35):
that to me is the crossover. That's that's That's how
I know that it's going to work. That's how I
know that this is going to stay in the collection,
or that the print really works, because everybody in office
is like, oh, I really love that print. Now we're
here in our office, we're very particular. If they don't
like something, they're going to let you know this is

(01:42:57):
not going to work, and you know and get because
we have two other collections under our header off and
get like the production team going, Nancy, what are you thinking?
And I'm like, but I really like it, Like this
works with this, and then they understand. But nobody's shy
to say what they think and how they feel about something.
So it has to pass the muster in our office

(01:43:19):
before you can ever go out the door.

Speaker 2 (01:43:21):
Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense because you
don't want to. And again, it's constructive criticism, is really
what it is, and you want that. You want to
invite that, especially in a business like yours, because you
don't want to release a line and then find out
afterwards like well, like that's what I was alluting to earlier.

Speaker 5 (01:43:39):
Is that?

Speaker 2 (01:43:39):
Okay? That not so much this one. You want to
get that feedback, at the constructive feedback, because then you
can pivot, you can make changes, and you want to
obviously rely on what your customers think in the direction
you're going. And you know, some maybe don't like a
lot of change, but some, you know, do want to
see new and fresher prints and things like that. So
there's a lot involved. Well, as we get ready to

(01:44:01):
wrap up, I want to ask you this final question
and and I know you obviously are always looking ahead,
and you may not necessarily look this far ahead. I
don't know. But where do you see because as I
alluded to in the beginning, with technology and with trends
going on things, the world is just moving at a
fast pace. Where do you see the evolution of fashion?

(01:44:23):
Particularly where you guys are concerned five years out from now?
What's going to be the big changes do you foresee
coming in the future in what you're doing? Is it
just more materials, different materials, better materials, stronger, you know,
whatever the case may be. Or do you see a
major shift and how the fashion is put together? I mean,

(01:44:46):
what what do you see happening and or or not
at all? Is it just going to kind of keep
plodding along season to season? How do you see it
in five years?

Speaker 5 (01:44:55):
I think that there's there's going to be a few
aspects of it. I do think that there's be some
traditional fabrics that will still be in the collection, because
those are things that are very popular still and they've
been popular for so long that people really really like them.
But I also think that there's going to be parts
of the collection that are going to change, as far

(01:45:18):
as save the seam sealed parts of it. So instead
of having it be sewn by thread, we have a
seam ceiling. So the fabrics are moisture wicking or excuse me,
water repellent. And you know, we're going to go into
more outerwear, so i'd like to head us into that direction.

Speaker 6 (01:45:37):
One two.

Speaker 5 (01:45:38):
I think that you will probably see a lot more dresses.
I could I could be wrong, but I think that
we're starting, it's getting very slowly moving into that direction.
But they're so comfortable to wear and they look so
nice on everyone. I think that that's starting. The whole
outlook of sports or pants are starting to move in
that direction as well, So you're going to there's a

(01:46:00):
bunch of different components, and I think but I think
as far as fabric is concerned, the most important is
just it's really just to handfill and comfort. So we're
you know, as far as uh yarns and threads, that's
always evolving, but the basics of it are going to
be just that it's moisture wicking, that it's v protected,
and you're going to we'll see a lot more of

(01:46:21):
that too. Longer sleeves so we can cover ourselves from
the sun. Lighter weight, but still functionable, functioning garments, all
of those things. So it's not just one area that
we'll see change. It's I think all all areas are
going to change or the structure will be a bit different,
but we'll still have our basic and then we'll just

(01:46:43):
move forward from there. But I think you'll see from
us more out ofwear. I think we're headed in that direction.
I think there's a market, definitely a market for it.
I know that we do really well with our quilted
jackets on our vests, so that's something I'm really looking
into again. Dresses looking into those as well. I love them.
I think they're really beautiful and I think they make
everybody look really nice. So we're just going to We're

(01:47:06):
going to continue on line and we're going to grow
with with the product. We're going to grow with what
we're seeing in the market, and we'll evolve with with
what's what's happening. But it will won't go in one direction,
it'll grow in multiple directions.

Speaker 2 (01:47:20):
Yeah, I agree one hundred percent with you. I think
you're going to see a lot of changes. There's always
going to be sort of the core, uh, you know,
fashion that people will stick with, you know, I mean
that last the decades, and then you're going to see
obviously new changes along the way, and it's going to
be interesting to see where things are, you know, even
five years, even two years out. I mean, things are

(01:47:42):
just rapidly moving it at such a quick pace. So
it's going to be interesting to see that. But always
interesting to have you on the show. And it was
great to sort of unofficially meet you face to face,
if you will, And I appreciate coming and sharing some
of the latest things happening at Swing Control. You guys,
I think have a great company. And and again for
those of you who have not been up to Montreal,

(01:48:03):
get yourselves up there. It's if nothing else, go up
and see and visit Nancy at Swing Control. All right,
I want to thank all of I want to thank
all of my guests for joining me tonight. Special thanks
to Jim Endicott and Jamie Lee's Jamie Leno Zimron excuse
me for doing a great job on the Coach's Corner
panel segment a little bit earlier. And also a special
thanks to my travel expert Robert Kaufman and tonight's feature

(01:48:26):
travel guest Scott Cowen, the executive director of Golf at
Win Golf Club in Las Vegas. And then, last but
not lease, of course, my featured guest of the evening,
Nancy Robatai from Swing Control. Don't forget to tune in
each and every week, and if you want to see
this episode and others, visit our YouTube channel I Golf
Sports or on Spotify dot com. And if you want

(01:48:47):
to listen to the audio version later, it'll be available
at spreaker dot com or basically wherever you listen to podcasts.
But don't forget to subscribe to the channels as new
episodes drop weekly. But thank you everybody, have a great weekend.
I will see you next week right here on Golf
Talk Live. God bless everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:49:07):
Thanks for joining us. We hope you enjoyed this week's
broadcast of Golf Talk Live. We'd like to thank this
week's Coach's Corner panel and a special thank you to
tonight's guest. Remember to join Ted every Thursday from six
to eight pm Central on Golf Talk Live and be
sure to follow Ted on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. If

(01:49:27):
you're interested in being a guest on Golf Talk Live,
send Ted an email at Ted dot Golf talklive at
gmail dot com. This has been a production of the
Igolf Sports Network

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Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 22 | Sept 4th, 2025

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.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Golf Talk Live - Season 13 Episode 22 | Sept 4th, 2025