Bridge of Love w/ Pamela Walck

My guest for today Ms. Pamela Walck explored multiple religions until she found her one true God of love. After finding her father dead in the basement and experiencing the deaths of numerous patients of various beliefs—she started to think about eternity. She had lived a wild life of dating and partying, and involvement in the occult—until finally seeking persistently after God for answers.

Topics discussed:

• Pam's early life as model and party girl
• how she found God
• her wish for everyone to be saved

and much more!

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Podcast recorded with Riverside Studios:

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Music used:

• Intro: Runes of the Ancients by Queen of blades -- https://www.bandlab.com/roamingdarkness_ 
• Outro: Viking/Medieval Theme by M-Murray -- https://freesound.org/s/723202/ -- License: Attribution NonCommercial 4.0

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey there, did you know that this podcast as a
supporters club. By becoming a supporter of the show, you
gain access to exclusive content and play an active role
in helping me to continue producing the content you love.
See the link in the episode description for more details.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Now let's get back to the episode.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Size recall on the waves, the loud and right by
the same lunch. We stand as one because.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Fight boy, cap in hand, stripe down the.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hole, protect this land.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Oh it's all father, secret voice, some guide our souls
to the sacred rhythm. Frick, Queen of the hot.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Us home with love and grace, Mega hole, just with
your eye might guide of food to night. How the
mistress of life Fanta show us.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
The pad with every breath, pray up, got us love
and what we honor you know and forever more.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Whos to lisus We call the rules.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
We see showcals, hussles.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Ride, don't jail us.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
We say ya, last.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
Flight away, locals haga, last last peas.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
We see our spirits.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Rise on the winds Las spring.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Is sa gema.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
But we trust the bos the last We must.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
All right, We are back on the Grey Horned Pagans podcast.
At time of recording, This is the second one I'll
be doing today, although very different than the first one.
My guest for this time is miss Pamela Walk. Thank
you so much for coming on and thank you for

(02:03):
responding on the podcast guest forum. I read through the
bio and it's interesting. It's definitely interesting, definitely up my alley.
So yeah, thank you for joining. And for those who
who may not be familiar with you and your work
just yet, introduce yourself.

Speaker 5 (02:19):
Sure, thank you for having me. Yeah. My name is
Pamela Walk. I go by Pam and I'm an author.
I wrote this book right here, I'll pull it up.
It's called Bridge of Love, Thirty true Stories of faith
in Action, and it took me about fifteen years to
write it because they're all true stories. I've got about
fifteen to twenty of them in different magazines and then

(02:40):
I finally put them together and had it published. I'm
a retired physical therapist and I worked as a physical
therapist for twenty eight years. I have, actually I have
had four degrees. One of them. I started off in
nursing and then I ended up passing the CPA, working
in accounting for a few years, ended up being a
physical therapy, thought I found the dream job, and then

(03:03):
I ended up I got saved or became a Christian,
and I ended up going back to school again like
a year or two later for my master's in Christian Education.
And from that point on, I was doing mission trips
and different things, and I ended up moving back to
Western New York where I live now. My mom is
ninety six years old, so she's a lot to take

(03:24):
care of. But I'm retired because unfortunately, I got diagnosed
with stage four lung cancer and on smoker. I've never
smoked in my life, and I was actually praying for
my mom one night, put and breathe and I go
to the gym a lot, and I thought this is
really strange. The next night it happened again and I
ended up going to the doctor, and to make a
long story short, I ended up getting hospitalized and they

(03:46):
said that I had a mutation and I had on
this lung cancer and it was horrifying. So I ended
up going through a lot of treatments. I'm on chemo
right now and I'm on a target pill. I've had radiation.
I'm doing well, and I'm thankful to the Lord for that.
I actually went to the gym today, so I'm actually
doing well, but I just the Madison does make me tired.

(04:09):
But I'm very thankful that I'm alive, and i just
want to, you know, feel light and help people and
do things that you know, different than I used to
because you know, I can't do the therapy right now.
But that's where I'm at.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
That is quite the story already.

Speaker 6 (04:27):
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Speaker 2 (05:32):
Thank you again, so much to w Energy for sponsoring
the podcast. Wow. So yeah, like even with all of
that going on, as I said right before we started recording,
I am very thankful that that you know that I
that you scheduled yourself as a as a guest, I
can't imagine. It's a lot. And it's also a challenge

(05:53):
for me as a host to like kind of keep
it at a forty forty five minutes. I love the chat.
That's why I always say, like I go for like
about an hour. I usually go way way past the hour,
even did shows that are multiple hours, just because the

(06:16):
flow is so incredibly good. Yeah, but it just just
means that it's you know, we're having fun. But your
book Bridge of Love, how did you You said? You
published it in multiple magazines and they're all real life stories,
like they're all first time account.

Speaker 5 (06:35):
And yeah, they're all true stories. A lot of there's
a lot of patient stories in there, and there's different
stories like I'm well, it is a Christian book, so
it's a faith based book. So when I say that
they are true stories, but there are things that happened.
I changed a few of the names. But there's pictures
in there of people, and you know there's Larry the
Homeless Man in there. I live near Buffalo, New York.

(06:55):
And you know there's chapters in there on my mission trip.
I got healed of Krohn's disease and colitis many years ago.
That was a miraculous healing, and that's in the book
chapter twenty nine. I mean, just looking at the chapters,
there's and there's a lot of chapters on talking to
different people groups. Because I didn't become a Christian or
a christ Foller until I was thirty now fifty nine.

(07:16):
And at the time when I was thirty, I just
was all over the place, like I did believe in God.
I did believe that Jesus existed. I mean even our
calendar was based on his birth. But I was not
following him. And so I was leading kind of a
crazy American life. You know, always good jobs and everything.
But I was, you know, out drinking every night, out partying.

(07:39):
I modeled for about six years and had tons of boyfriends,
let in a moral lifestyle. My roommate us to swear
I picked that up, and the list goes on. So
I was not following God at all. And then a
few things happened in my life. I found my father
dead in the basement. That was the first thing. I
was twenty three years old. I came home from a

(08:00):
boyfriend's house, his parents' house, and I went down to
the basement. I saw the light on and he was
dead in his chair. And that was extremely traumatic for me,
and it made me go start quest of where did
he go? You know, where did my dad go? And
I thought about it and I thought, well, he went
to church. He must have went to heaven. But I

(08:20):
never read the Bible. I didn't know what the Bible
said about it. So I started reading other religions. So
I went to the library, got books on reincarnation, the
White Light, Islam, everything but Christianity. And I did that
for a few years, and that got me nowhere. I
was still leading the same life and I really didn't
have peace at all in my life. Even though on

(08:42):
the outside it seemed like everything was going well, on
the inside, I had no peace. It seemed like I
had this like hole in my heart or something. And
then a few years after that, this guy asked me
to marry him, and it was the right time in
my life, but I didn't know if I really loved
him because I only knew a few months, and I thought,
I know, if I love you. You know, I had

(09:03):
so many boyfriends and people break up and they get divorced,
you see, and you know everything. I thought, how do
I know what love is? And all my friends are like, well,
if you don't know what love is, or if you
don't know, if you want to marry him, he's the
wrong person. And see, I don't think that way because
I'm very analytical and I don't just have things like
pop into my head like I want to do this
or do that. And so then I remembered when I

(09:26):
was a little girl. I went to a Protestant church
when I was little with my parents. I quit going
to church when I was about seventeen eighteen. I refused
to go and I remember getting a Bible and the
covert said God is love. So I honestly picked up
the Bible. I looked for it in the garage, picked
it up and started reading it. And I spent three
months on my stairs in Chicawaga, which is near Buffalo,

(09:48):
on the carpeted stairs, and I just kept reading and
reading and reading. And this is when I kind of
feel like kind of like a zebra, you know, you know,
like it's like a black and white zebra. When I
was reading the Bible, I never read it before, Like
I knew like one verse that was it. And when
I was reading it, I saw all the sin in
my life. Like I read these verses about sin, you know,

(10:09):
like don't be drunk with wine, but be filled with
the Holy Spirit. And I was getting drunk all the time,
you know, or don't lie, don't you know, avoid sexual morality.
It's for a man and woman when they're married, not engaged,
not dating, but married. And I was like, wow, look
at all the sin in my life, and this is true. Son.
I literally felt the love of God though, So even

(10:33):
though I was reading these pages and I felt convicted
that I was a sinner, I felt the love of
God and that he was trying to lead and guide
my life because he wanted me to have a great life,
you know, not that things don't happen in life, but
He's trying to lead and guide my life so that
I have like a holier life, like a you know,
not just looking at the short term, but the long term.

(10:53):
So after three months of reading the Bible, and I
would go to different churches every Sunday and just kind
of like where I lived because I had moved out
from my parents' house a few years back, and a
friend of mine said, why don't she tried this non
denominational Christian church, which is Protestant, you know, but it
was just non denominational. It's in the South. They would
call them Bible churches. So I ended up going there

(11:15):
and the pastor did an altar call where you were
you repent or turn from your sin, turn from your
disbelief and trust in Christ. And I had done that
when I was probably in vacation Bible school at age five,
but I didn't get it. I just never got it.
So he did this and I raised my hand and
I went up. I actually went up three weeks in
a row because I was so serious. And my life

(11:37):
changed from that point on. My life did a oneint
eighty and I made different choices in my life. I
just a lot of it was making different choices. I mean,
it was like peeling back an onion, because you know,
I really was. I had a lot of sin in
my life, and so I just felt like, little by
little it was like an onion being peeled and I
would go to Bible studies and I would, you know,

(11:58):
go to church and I would hear the word of God.
And I started just really like really wanting to be
a different person. And I a lot of my friends
dropped me though, you know, they thought I had turned
into the Virgin Mary. They're like, what is wrong with you?
And I go, what do you mean? And I go,
why can't we do other things? Why do we have
to go out drinking till three or four in the morning,
And what is the matter with you? I said, I'm

(12:19):
really just trying to do other activities, like can't we
do other things? You know, I'm trying to follow the Bible.
And to make a long story short, I got new friends.
You know. It says I didn't know this at the
time because I was a new Christian, but the Bible
says he provides, and he did. He provided different friends,
and they were deeper friendships. They were deeper relationships, not
just based on like superficial hobbies, but they were deeper friends.

(12:43):
And so that's what happened to me, you know, And
that was many years ago, because I was thirty years
old at the time when this happened.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Wow. Yeah, that's an amazing story. Religion can do so
much for a person, so much for a man, for
a woman. I and I, you know, we may not
be we may not believe the same things, we may
not believe in the same God, but I definitely do

(13:13):
believe in the same values at the very least. And yeah, no,
it all sounds really familiar. You know, you find religion,
you find your God, and all of a sudden, you know,
everything just gets gets better. You know, you get put
on the right path and the path that you should
you should walk. So yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 5 (13:33):
And well, it's the difference. The only difference is that,
like when people talk about religion, Christianity is a religion,
but there's one difference between Christianity and all the other
religions in the world. Do you know what that is?
Like if you said, let's say you take Islam or
Buddhist or any of them. Okay, there's one difference between
Christianity and all the other religions. And you know what

(13:55):
it is. I can tell you. It's a grace based Really,
it's a grace based faith, meaning like it's a free gift.
So when Jesus died on the cross, and we're all
guilty sinners. He offered himself as a free gift. I
don't have to do anything to earn that fabor or see,
if you're like Muslim, for instance, you don't know if
you're ever going to heaven. They have like this system

(14:16):
of you know, did I do enough good? Did I
do enough bad? They never know I have a relationship
with the only living God. And that's the difference because
I have studied and if you read my book, I've
studied so many different religions like Jehovah Witness and Mormons
and like all these different religions, and they don't have
assurance of going to heaven. They don't have assurance of

(14:37):
being forgiven. And the proof there's over three inner prophecies
in the Old Testament, which is the first half of
the Bible, to come true in the New Testament, which
is statistically impossible. It's one out of seventeen zeros. It's
even more than noster Damis like he was. Noster Damis
was ninety seven percent correct in the Bible. They can't
break it apart. So it's like the history that Jack,

(15:00):
it's amazing, Like you know, I don't get too far
into that. But it's like amazing every time you read it.
It's like the only book where the author shows up.
So I don't know, what are your beliefs? Then are you?
I don't know?

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Well, yeah, no, of course I'm I'm a European pagan.
I'm a Germanic pagan. I follow that the old European gods,
with a emphasis on four, in particular that being Thor,
the thunder God, the most powerful of all the gods, Odin,
the Old Father, the wisest of all the gods, also

(15:34):
a god too. That happens also we got not to
be messed with because his name literally translates to the
fury as one tear, or te Us as we call
him in the Germanic languages, god of justice and Freyer,
the goddess of family, goddess of the hearth, and wife

(15:56):
of Odin. And how did you get into that?

Speaker 5 (16:00):
How did you get into like? How did you know? Well?

Speaker 2 (16:03):
First of all, because I am Dutch, so it is
very very close to home for me.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
I mean a lot of Dutch people follow those gods.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
I know several, but here in Europe it is, it
is definitely alive. The different kinds of paganism, especially you know,
in northern Europe. The the Netherlands is the located in
the northwest of Europe, so north and northwest Scandinavia, Germany.
The Netherlands is very much the well the Acier. We

(16:35):
call it the Pantheon of the Acier. More southern we
go to you know, Spain, Italy, Greek, it's different, different
pantheon there. They have their their own gods, similar archetypes,
but they call them by by different names.

Speaker 5 (16:51):
Did you ever, I'm just wondering, did you ever look
at Christianity?

Speaker 2 (16:56):
I have, I have, we have indeed and that, but.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
I I see the value, the value in it of
the true Christian religion that is not the Bible thumping
you know, convert or else kind of Christianity, like your
average Christian.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
They don't like us Pagans. They'll they'll say things like, oh,
you know, your gods are deceiving you because they're not gods,
they're just you know, demons in disguise, which you know
you're you're not selling it by by saying that. That
does not make me, you know, go like, well, guess
I'm in the wrong. I'll just you know, follow your

(17:38):
God because apparently that's the one true God, because my
gods are false gods, even though you know they're the
gods of Europe, they're the gods of this land. They
are the gods that my ancestors followed and worshiped. Those
are the past that they walked as well. But I
do see the value in his teachings. I do see
the the value in the sense of community that it

(18:02):
brings for a lot of people. So I'm not one
of those I said that about Christians, but you have
a lot in the pagan community as well. Unfortunately, who
will hate on Christians, who will bash Christians because you know,
Christians are pagans. We never we never got along, and
oh you know, you did all those horrible things like
so many hundred years ago, and it's like, yeah, but

(18:25):
you know, those things still happen, and I believe it's
much better to stand together, band together. We may not
follow the same gods, we may not follow the same path,
but at least we have a common goal, and that
is just to fight for the good of humanity, for
the good of the people that we love.

Speaker 5 (18:45):
Because I don't really know too much about what you
just told me. Actually, you're the first person I've ever
talked to that told me this in my life. Okay,
I mean I've I lived near a reservation and they
worship the created in different gods and stuff, But I've
never talk to somebody what you were telling me about.
So where do you think when you die, that you
go what happens? What do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (19:08):
In Germanic paganism?

Speaker 5 (19:09):
That well, in your belief, not not in like, but
your belief.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
So my personal belief, Yeah, I do believe in an afterlife.
I I definitely do. You know, the physical body is
a vessel. It is needed to to be able to
live on this physical planet. And we are here to
to learn, you know, we are here to to learn

(19:39):
and to teach.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
I believe.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
But yes, I do believe in a in an afterlife.

Speaker 5 (19:45):
Do you believe in it happened in a hell?

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Not as black and white as that, but I do
believe that. Well, very simply put, like you, you get
what you deserve if you have lived a good life,
a righteous life, have always fought for the right thing,
have always, you know, tried to be the best that
you can, then you'll have a much more pleasant afterlife

(20:09):
than some war wongering politician or you know whoever. Like
I do believe and even in Germanic paganism, there is
a realm for those people, for the oath breakers and
the false, false individuals. They they do get get punished.
So do you think they're I try to be every

(20:32):
day and that is that is all I all I
can do.

Speaker 5 (20:37):
But I'm just listening to what you're saying about, you know,
like if you're a good person, that's why I'm wondering
what you're staying.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, that is that's very subjective, of course, you know
probably if you I know some people, if you you know,
if you'd ask him if hey, you know sign a
good person, they say no, he's a right bastard. Well
then you know, if you'd ask other people, it's like, oh, yeah,
you know, he's the biggest sweetheart there is. So yeah,
it is very subjective. But I believe I'm a good
person and at the very least I am trying to

(21:09):
be the best that I can, at least for then
the people that I love.

Speaker 5 (21:14):
I know you're me, But can I ask you a question?
So have you ever told a lie in your life?

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Plenty?

Speaker 5 (21:20):
So what would that make you lie? Right, it would
make you a liar, which is.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
The time, at the time of telling that lie, Yes.

Speaker 5 (21:30):
That make me make you a liar? And then have
you ever I'm just looking for instance at the Ten Commandments?
Have you ever taken something, even something tiny that didn't
belong to you ever in.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Your entire life, in my thirty three years of life. Yes, yeah,
yes I have.

Speaker 5 (21:47):
So what would that make.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
You at the at that moment, that would that would
make me a thief? Tiniest thing it may be, it
would make.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
Me a thief?

Speaker 3 (21:56):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (21:57):
And have you ever you're a man if you ever
looked did a woman with lust in your eyes that
you're not married.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
To I'm a healthy, thirty three year old man. Yes,
yes i have.

Speaker 5 (22:07):
So the Bible says that anyone that does that is
considering an adulter at heart. So I'm just saying, based
on what you're telling me that right now we've established
sort of that you've lied, you've taken something, you've you know,
what I'm saying is that based on the Ten Commandments,

(22:27):
do you think that if God looked at that, would
you be guilty of guilty of breaking his law? Or
would you not be guilty because that's his lie.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
I would say that God, your your God, the you know,
the Christian God, that he would know that might mankind
is imperfect.

Speaker 5 (22:54):
They are, and that I agree, I'm imperfect too. But
the thing is we're all in the same boat. We're
all sinners, yes, and see that's sin. So if you've
broken any of the time commandment's even one sin. The
Bible says the wages of sin, which is what you
get for sin, is death, which is hell. But here's
the good news. You know what the good news is.

(23:16):
But the good news is Jesus died on the cross
for you and says the wages of sin is death.
But the good news is Jesus Christ. And if you
put your faith alone in him, he forgives all of
your sin. And that means that one day you will
not have to pay for your own sin and hell,
you'll get to go to heaven because He took the
sin instead of you. You know, he's our perfect sacrifice.

(23:40):
And that's the difference because when you like, when I
didn't get Christianity, like I said, I raised my hand
at four or five years old. I didn't understand it,
and I thought all religions are the same, you know whatever,
vastly different, vastly they are. And the biggest thing, though,
is that Christianity is really based on love, but there's

(24:02):
bigger attributes to love. There's also justice, you know. Like
I got a speeding ticket twice in one year. I
used to get terrible speeding tickets before I was a Christian,
I mean terrible. I was always in court, I mean constantly.
But but what I was going to say is, so
I stopped kind of doing that, and I started obeying
the law better. But maybe two years ago I got

(24:24):
two speeding tickets within six months of each other. So
I'm standing before the judge guilty. Okay. Now, no matter
how good of a person I quote try to be,
try to take care of my mom, try to be
a good friend, try to be a good therapist or whatever,
I'm still guilty. So he says, well, you have to
pay a fine. You got to pay one hundred and
thirty five dollars fine for each of them. And the

(24:45):
thing is, one day we all stand before the Lord.
We will when we die, and I'll maybe I have
a million sins or a billion sins, you know, and
I'm guilty, and I can't say well, I was a
good therapist, or I was a good sister or a
good whatever. It doesn't matter. Those sins you have to
be paid for. And that's why I'm saying the difference
with Christianity is Jesus died so that your sins will

(25:08):
not have to be paid for you in hell, you know,
because he doesn't want anybody to go there. He wants
you to go to heaven. He wants you to be
with him. But he also gives you free will, and
he will never violate your free will, just like when
you say, people say to you, oh, you're following this
pagan whatever. Like he's not going to say you have
to believe in me or else. You know, that's your choice.

(25:30):
But the evidence is there. You know, there were over
five unds.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
You know there is evidence, as there is evidence of
my gods in the European countries. There is plenty of
evidence for My gods to be found, both in books, stories,
artifacts buried in the grounds that corroborate a lot of
those those stories as well. And as I said, I

(25:58):
definitely do see the value. I see the value in
his teachings. I see the value of you know, the
sacrifice that that he made. If anything, that is one
of the virtues that the path that I follow, that
they kind of expect of us as well, some form
of self sacrifice. So I guess you could translate it

(26:20):
as paying for your sins. But you know, still in
this life, you know you did something wrong. Okay, Well,
you know we all mess up. We all do things
that you know we shouldn't. We've all done things that
we're not proud of. How are you going to make
it right? And that's that that's the more important question.
That's the more important issue, like how are you going

(26:40):
to make it right? It's not about what you've done,
it still counts, you know, but it's about how you
make it right that.

Speaker 5 (26:47):
Yeh see, I can't make sure value, you know, I can't.
You know, like if I get mad at my mom
or something and I go, oh, you know, I get
mad at her. I mean I can apologize to her
and say, you know, Mom, I'm really sorry. I shouldn't
have got mad at you or what I but and
I can say, Lord, please forgive me because I want
that good relationship with the Lord. And you can feel
the tension when I'm like doing things that are not

(27:09):
of him you know, I just can tell you know
that it's not right, it's not righteous behavior, and I
need to repent or turn from that so that I
have a good relationship with him, just like in life,
in real life, if you have a good friend and
you're arguing or something's going on, like you know, there's
going to be consequences on the earth. But the biggest
thing is like I don't know, like when I look

(27:31):
at Jesus, I mean, he died and rose again from
the dead, and you know I look at all these
other gods out there, and they don't have did they
rise again from the dead? Did they have you know,
a tomb where there was no one there and he
rose again. I don't see that in any other religion,
and you know they they haven't. I mean, if you
go over to Mohammed's grave, you're going to find dead bones.

(27:53):
You know, you don't see that with Jesus. He rose
again from the dead three days later, and he defeated Sin,
and he defeated you know. He sits on the right
hand of the God right now, the Father. And the
reason my book is called Bridge of Love is because
he's the actual bridge, Jesus between the Father and us,
because it's not three gods, it's one God, the Trinity, father, Son,

(28:15):
and Holy Spirit. And the cool part, this is the
really cool part which I didn't know about. It's not
just waiting till you die. The Lord gives you the
Holy Spirit on earth to help you through life when
you trust in him. So he's with me. So it
doesn't mean I'm God or anything. It just means he's
helping me. And I think that I didn't take Hebrew
and Greek at Dallas Seminary, but I know that Numa,

(28:39):
which means wind. It's like the Greek or Hebrew word
for Holy Spirit. And it's sort of like you can't
see the wind, right, but yeah, you can feel it.
You can feel the wind, and just like the Holy
Spirit is with me as a Christian, I can't feel
and say like, oh, you know, I feel God with me,
but you know he will lead and guide my life.

(28:59):
So He's helped me not only in this life, but
also after I die, I'll be in heaven with him
and all the other believers.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
And that's my gods. As my gods do for me
and my people, it works the the exact same way.
I mean, my gods that's I mean, that's also you know,
because of because of Europe, because of the lands that
we live on. It is you know, quite harsh here.
So of course our our gods will reflect that. They

(29:25):
may be a little more, a little more heavy on
it at times, but that is they mean mean well,
they want you to want you to live a good life.
They want you to love your wife, love your kids,
be a good man, be a good woman.

Speaker 5 (29:38):
You know, where do you read these things about like,
you know, if you don't have a Bible, which is
about Jesus, Like, where are you getting your information from
about these Because I have a German upbringing, you know,
but I grew up in a Lutheran or a Lutheran.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Stories generations and generations of storytelling. I know. That is
you know, that is one of the main differences in paganism,
European paganism at all, if I you know, think about
South as well. We don't have a Holy Book, we
don't have scriptures, we don't have commandments. I mean, there
are the nine Noble virtues, but those are more of

(30:17):
a a more modern invention. Things get you know, invented
and reinvented again and again. But here in Europe. It's storytelling,
you know, throughout the throughout the generations, the stories of
stories of the land, stories of our ancestors, stories of
the gods, fairy tales which are you know, in a way,

(30:37):
also about the gods, about the about the spirits of
the land, just packaged in a in a beautiful story
with a lesson at the end. I mean, we have,
of course, we have books with our stories, we have
prosa with our stories, but we don't consider those two
be sacred texts. They tell the story of our gods.

Speaker 5 (31:01):
I don't know. I just I you know what I
The only thing I can say is it's like looking
at a dollar bill, you know, like once you see
the real thing, you can recognize the fake. I hate
to say that, but I just know. Jesus is real,
and he's changed my life in a million ways. I'm
a different person and he's changed.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
And that's for you and I am. I am very everybody.

Speaker 5 (31:23):
Not when people say I know it is you know,
it's good for everyone, you know, but it's not like I.
But it's not like like say, like, it can't be
like Jesus. Plus it's Jesus alone, you know, It's not
like well, I can follow Jesus plus Mohammed plus Buddha
plus Confucius. No, it's he wants he wants to be

(31:46):
your only love, you know, not that you can't have,
you know, a woman here. You know, I don't mean
like that. I just mean from God's standpoint, he wants
to be your first love and your only love. And
you know, as a physical therapist, this is the funny part.
So a lot of people say, well, how did you
develop faith? And I said, there's one way and one
way only. I said, how do you develop muscles? And

(32:09):
I said, you have to exercise, right. I mean, if
I just sit here, I'm not going to develop muscles.
So the Bible says that faith comes by hearing and
hearing by the word of God. So if I actually
pick a Bible up and start reading it, go to church,
here the word of God, listen to Christian radio, whatever,
my faith will start to develop. And I'll start listening

(32:31):
and I'll say, Okay, are you really real? This is
Jesus thing real. And that's what happened with me because
I never spent the time. I was always so busy
with working and partying and doing a million things that
I never sat down and actually studied for myself. And
when I did it, it was like the veil came
off my eyes. You know.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
That's again I do. I do study. I do talk
to a whole lot of different people coming from different
religions or a spiritual beliefs. I mean, I've been doing
podcasting for I want to say, like a good four
years now, and when it comes to you know, to
the spiritual, to the occult, esoteric, the metaphysic, the religious,

(33:13):
I have learned so incredibly much. And I have heard,
you know, the same story told a hundred different ways.

Speaker 5 (33:22):
Are you involved in the occult?

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Occult simply means hidden hidden from sight. I I'm not
a active practitioner, but I do have a deeper interest
in the occult, in what is hidden in plain sight.
I find it all. I find it very fascinating. You know,

(33:45):
things that they they don't tell you, the things that
they well, they don't show you, but they do show you.

Speaker 5 (33:52):
So one of my chapters in my book, I used
to be very involved in the occult. I used to
do terror card readings and I wrote a horoscope column.
I used to go to this place in New York State,
lily Dale where they do fortune telling and all of that.
And you know, my birthday's Halloween, so I used to
dress up in like these she Devil costumes and you

(34:14):
know all these things. Never thought too much about it.
And I don't know, would you want me to read
just a little bit of my chapter? Just like it's
not a long time, okay if you fell, because it's
probably easier if I read it. And it kind of
like and it's not a real long chapter, but it's
on quote the Occult. Okay, So it's chapter seven. Okay,

(34:39):
here it is all right. So it's called So you
Want to Know the Future? Midnight about two weeks before
my birth, my October thirty first birthday, and I felt
utterly worn out. Wow, I had dragged from my basement
to the curb years of accumulated Halloween articles, devils, witches,
anything that resembled the occult. Driving home from the mall

(35:01):
several hours earlier, I turned tuned into a local Christian
radio station. The announcer discussed Halloween and the Occult. He
said that as Christians. Now I was a Christian at
this point, a young Christian. I mean, I think I
had just you trusted in Christ six months before, we
should not get involved in any aspect of it. I

(35:22):
pulled my car over on miller Sport Highway and turned
into a church parking lot to listen more intently. Wow,
I thought, does a Bible really address topics such as
fortune telling? I had no idea. The radio preacher discussed
the witch of Endor and solve many verses cited in
the Old and New Testament told about turning away from
consulting mediums, sorcerers, astrology, or anything related to these. Do

(35:46):
not turn to mediums or seek out spiritusts, for you
will be defiled by them. I am the Lord your
God Leviticus nineteen thirty one. Other verses such as Isaiah
forty seven thirteen to fifteen, Isaiah forty seven or excuse
Me sixteen sixteen to nine, and Acts nineteen eighteen to
twenty also command us to stay away from the occult.

(36:07):
I definitely believe the Bible to be God's word, which
has been proven over and over as valid and correct.
Consider this. All scripture is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting,
and training in righteousness, that the man of God may
be thoroughly equipped for every good work. Two Timothy three sixteen.

(36:27):
I needed to choose between following God or indulging my
own desires, in this case that of keeping and displaying decorations.
It reflected something contrary to him and his word. I
felt convicted about my past behavior. In high school, I
had written a monthly horoscope column just made up. Of course.
Later I got involved in terror card readings, Theluiji board,
and regular trips to Lilydale, a town in New York

(36:50):
known for mediums. When I finally got home from my
drive that night, I started ripping apart a basement. Since
my birthday is on Halloween, I dressed up in cast
to both for work where I visited the patient's rooms,
and for parties after work. Not a year had gone
by when I didn't come up with some outlandish outfit.
Most of my Halloween get ups, such as Little Bull

(37:12):
Peep and the Energizer Bunny, were innocent enough costumes, but
I also dressed up as vampires in a she Devil.
While in the basement, I came across other occult materials
I'd collected over the years. All the time I was
involved with these things, I desired to know the future
and what to do with some aspect of my life.
That night, while listening to the radio program, I realized

(37:34):
that I had not trust a Goad with my future.
The truth was I had shown a lack of faith.
The Lord has the answers for everything, and he freely
gives me wisdom with the condition that I must listen
to him. I won't be able to discern as well
through mediums and other crazy ways, but only through the Bible,
godly counsel in prayer. As I meditate on Scripture today,

(37:54):
I find answers to many of my problems or questions
in life. For instance, I started reading the Bible initially
because I wanted to know who to marry. God showed
me the description of the character of the man I
would want as a husband, kind, patient, not proud, admitting
his weaknesses, loving, not rude. Is My personality had shown
very poorly over many years. You've probably heard a pastor

(38:17):
read this list of qualities from one Corinthians thirteen at
a wedding. What else did God reveal to me that
I should desire to make someone who follows the Lord
and wants his will for their life. Lastly, I wanted
someone I would enjoy spending time with did the Bible
say that. I don't think so, But it does talk
about contentment and our desire for marriage to one person
such that you would never want to leave each other.

(38:39):
Such a commitment is similar to what God says, I
will never leave you nor forsake you Hebrews thirteen to five.
My past relation history of relationships with men focused almost
exclusively on their outside, their external qualities. After spending time
with someone, you see how the inside of a person
matters even more. Don't want them to leave you or

(39:01):
you them. That kind of love is so hard to
find that Proverbs thirty one calls it rare. A love
for each other combined with excellent godly character is virtually impossible,
except that He is the God of the impossible. With
his hands in our lives to control circumstances and events,
he allows us the potential to meet a person like that.
All the while he's working on us in our insides

(39:23):
for at least two reasons, one so we recognize the
person he brings to us, and two so we can
change into the likeness of him Jesus. That night, both
the radio Pastor's counsel and my purging of the basement
resulted in a desire to please Him more than I
ever had. I wanted to obey God and tell others
about his greatness and testify test everything he had done

(39:45):
in my life. After throwing out the items from the basement,
I turned on the television and sat down. Kirk Cameron
was speaking. I didn't know at the time that Kirk
star of the sitcom Growing Pain, to turn Christian evangelist.
I listened closely as Kirk talked about winning souls for
Christ and how to go about doing that, swinging conversations

(40:09):
from the natural to the spiritual, and finding out what
people believe. I wanted to be like Kirk Cameron, I thought,
doing more for God and not for me. That night
I realized the call God he had in my life
to help transform hearts and souls to the Word of God,
one at a time. He truly does know the path.
We are to take trust in the Lord with all

(40:30):
your heart, and lean not on your own understanding in
all your ways. Submit to Him and He shall direct
your path Proverbs three five to six. Knowing this made
me choose to want to obey, because I know He
loves me and knows what's best for his sheep, and
you know, obviously he says we're like his sheep and
he's our shepherd, which is really cool. But I just

(40:50):
wanted to read that because it is about how I
used to be involved in that kind of stuff and
I left it.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
I agree with I agree with quite a lot of it. Actually,
the part where you spoke about love, that is very true.
That is very true. I have that with my wife,
and it's it took me almost yeah yeah, and with

(41:19):
you too, silly cat. And it took me almost losing
her to to realize what I had. So I fought,
and I fought incredibly hard to to well regain her favor,
regain her love, and now we are stronger than ever.
And that the gods know what's what is best for you,

(41:40):
that they will will lead you on the right path,
the path that is meant for you. I agree with
that as well.

Speaker 5 (41:48):
Just you know, human love will you know, human love
will always never be perfect. I mean, there's nothing perfect
on earth but God's love, even if we don't understand
it at the time, it will never fail because it
says He never fails us, you know, And we don't
see the big picture. We just don't you know even
Noah's ark like, Noah's told to build an arc and
he's never had rain at all, build an arc and

(42:10):
him and his family live, and the rest of the
world perishes because they weren't following him. But at the time,
Noah's probably like people probably thought he was crazy. But
the thing is, the Lord sees the big picture. He
sees like the end, he sees the beginning, he sees
the past. And that's why I like, I know you
said we differ obviously in our beliefs, but I do
hope and pray that you will think about what we

(42:31):
talked about today, because I do. It really is about
a relationship with the only living God. And you know,
you can study and study and study all different religions,
but the thing is, the proof of Christianity is so there.
I mean, even the Dead Sea scrolls and all the
different things that they've found. Oh, I know you know
that text in everything.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
I acknowledge that. Yeah, I acknowledge it. You know, I
acknowledge the scriptures, I acknowledge the teachings. I acknowledge that
there is a higher being or higher beings. Because even
even God was part of a pantheon. The Aloem. He
was just one god of it. I know about Christianity,

(43:11):
I have, I do study it, I do talk to
two Christians I have in the past and I will
most likely many times again. And I do see the value.
And I am very happy for the people who it helps.
I am very happy for well, for people like yourself
who who feel like it helped, helped set them right,

(43:34):
help put them on the right path, and are now
you know, are now enjoying it still, you know, making
sure that you stay on the path by you know,
doing whatever it is that is ask of you, which
is you know valid if you're you want to keep
going the right way.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
And our life is but a vapor. It's like so tiny,
like it's.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Almost like look compared to the grand scheme of things.

Speaker 5 (44:01):
Yeah, absolutely, And that's why it's so important to know
where you're going, you know, and it as a Christian,
I know where I'm going. You know, if I was
to die today, he'll over he have a heart attack, anything, whatever.
I know I'm going to be in Heaven with Jesus
and believers. But I didn't have the assurance before because
I didn't know him. If you believe in other gods,
he says, well, thou shall have no other gods before me.

(44:23):
It's got to be him alone. Otherwise than you end
up paying for your own sins and help. And that's
a terrible, terrible place, and you can't leave, just like
having you is a glorious place and you get to
stay forever. You don't want to leave.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
As a as a let's let's do this then as
a closing thought, this is is an interesting discussion, and
I would love to, you know, to continue this. But
if God truly is love, if God is the highest
and most pure form of love, and he you know,

(44:56):
loves us humans in the most pure way there is,
why would there be such a thing as hell? Why
the need for punishment if his love is so true
and pure?

Speaker 5 (45:08):
Because yeah, because he can't leave sin unpunished. It would
be like this like say you had a daughter and
your daughter was raped. Would you want the rapist to
just get off and say, oh, that's okay, no.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Problem, No send them there myself.

Speaker 5 (45:24):
Correct in Romans three twenty three says for all of
sin and fall and short of the glory of God,
every single person on the planet is a sinner. So
sin can not go unpunished. So the problem is because
we're all sinners with you know, say I committed a
billion sins. I mean there's got to be a payment
for that, and the only payment is blood sacrifice a
Christ as a Christian, and then he forgives my sins.

(45:46):
Otherwise I take the payment in hell. And it says,
you know, he even says.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Like Christ forgave, Christ did forgive a murderer. Christ did forgive.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
You?

Speaker 2 (45:58):
For gage those Christ?

Speaker 5 (46:00):
And do you know why though? Because they repented and believed.
That's why Paul on the road to Damascus was named
Saul before and on the road to Damascus he had
this experience where the angel came down and said, why
why do you persecute me? And he was like he
was blinded for three days, and then he became a believer,
and he wrote two thirds in the New Testament. And

(46:22):
the thing is he ended up dying for his faith,
and all the disciples died for their faith except John.
So the thing is, when you look at that, you
say to yourself, these guys gave up everything to follow
the Lord. Everything. They were fishermen, they were tax collectors, everything,
they gave up everything to follow him, and why not
because they were crazy, but because they knew he was

(46:43):
a messiah. He was forecasted in the Old Testament that
the Messiah was coming, and they wanted to believe because
he proved it. He mean, he performed miracles, He raised
the dud you know, he forgave people's sins. I mean
he had we walked on water that you.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Know, miracles. Raising the dead isn't that isn't that magic?
And is it magic part of the occult?

Speaker 5 (47:06):
No, Raising the dead is different. Raising the dead is
He's given you. When I go to heaven one day,
I'm going to get a new body. So I won't
have any arthritis in my back, I won't have three
rip ligaments in my ankle that shows scar tissue. I
won't have any of that because I'll have a new body.
But the thing is, that's like, that's a wonderful thing.
You know. There's nothing to do with magic. It has

(47:27):
no there's there's nothing even related to it. Lazarus was
raised from the dead in the Bible when there was
Mary and Martha. That was their brother and he died
and Jesus raised him from the dead, and you know,
the people were like amazed.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
And what's that nowadays that will be considered a dark heart, well, necromancy.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
I don't think so, because I mean if I died
and somebody prayed for me and I came back to life,
even laying here, I'd be pretty ecstatic. You know, I
wouldn't call it. I would just call thank you Jesus.
You know you raised me from the Dad. You weren't
ready for me yet. He just wasn't ready for him yet. Oh,
if you're ready, when the Lord says your time is now,
it's now. You know we're not going to change that.

(48:12):
I mean we can. We can ask him for a
long life. In job in the Old Testament, he lived
to be one hundred and forty, and you know you
can ask for a very long life. But I want
to do things with my life. I mean, I want
to glorify the Lord and I want to do things
for him, and I want to enjoy life too, of course.

Speaker 4 (48:27):
You know.

Speaker 5 (48:28):
But the biggest thing is he does not want anyone like.
He does not force your relationship on anybody. It's all
about free will. And that's why you know he's not
going to say you must come to heaven with me.
You must know he gives people what they want. If
they don't want to be with him, they don't have to.
But then that's the alternative, which is a terrible place

(48:51):
where they're paying for their sins and health. You know.
It's sort of like, why wouldn't I want that? I mean,
it's it's just beautiful there, and why wouldn't I want
something like that. It's like somebody's saying, hey, would you
like a million dollars? It's free. I'll give it to you.
When you say no, I don't want it, so you'll
just keep working, like cleaning the floors at wal Mart
or something. You know, No, I don't want a million.

(49:13):
It's like that's crazy, you know.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
I agree. I agree. You know, if if it is
indeed such a beautiful place, and I do believe it is,
if it is indeed a place of you know, pure love,
pure light, that it sounds like it.

Speaker 5 (49:29):
Yeah, And there's no darkness there. It says the sun
radiates all through heaven, so there's no darkness. I think
that's really cool because it's pretty dark here right now,
and it's pretty snowy here.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Oh yeah, I mean I'm in the Netherlands, North Northern Europe,
it's especially in the winter, so it's a waste. It's
always cool.

Speaker 5 (49:48):
Way's dark. So I've never talked to anybody from the
Netherlands in my life.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Well, I'm glad that can be the first. I guess. Yeah, no,
this is this is all very very interesting. I don't
think we're really good come to a common ground necessarily,
But as I have been saying, I do see the values.
I respect everyone's beliefs, and if it works for you,
then I'm very happy. If it makes you a better person,

(50:14):
if it helps you be who you want to be,
then by all means, do so, because that is the
one thing that we all deserve, to live a good
life and to be who we want to be, to
be the best form of ourselves to be.

Speaker 5 (50:31):
I'm going to be praying for you that the Lord
will prick your conscience and let you think about these things.
You know, because your family to influence too. I mean,
do you have kids, You have kids, I do so.
I mean, you know, parents influence the kids and everything,
and there's like you know, it's huge. But the biggest thing,
like I said, is if you study, you will find him.

(50:53):
It says, seek me and you will find me. Draw
near to God, and he will draw near to you.
It's just literally about spending time with him, you know,
just like you would spend time with your wife or
if you're dating, or you'd spend time with her and see, hey,
you know, is this the person for me? You got
to spend time.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
As I said, I have studied, I have read, I
have spoken to many many people, and that is that
is why I acknowledge the teachings. That is why I
acknowledge that.

Speaker 5 (51:22):
Do you acknowledge them?

Speaker 2 (51:23):
That way is beneficial?

Speaker 5 (51:25):
Beneficial? Okay?

Speaker 2 (51:28):
See, true, the the teachings are true. The things that
that he teaches you you should indeed do or not do?
That I I absolutely agree with.

Speaker 5 (51:44):
I Also see, you believe the Bible is true.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
I believe there is truth to be found.

Speaker 5 (51:48):
But you don't believe the whole Bible is true.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
I believe it is a book written by man many
many decades after the passing of Christ.

Speaker 5 (51:57):
Do you know how long? It was written? Over fifteen
hundred years by forty different authors on four different continents.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
But it's also it has it has been rewritten numerous
times also to fit political agendas. Unfortunately as actually.

Speaker 5 (52:10):
It hasn't been rewritten. You know what's funny people say that,
but I go, I don't know what you're talking about.
Because the translations for the Bible are like the King
James translation, which is the typical one. I don't know
if you guys use King James over there, but then
they have they're different grade levels, so like NIV, I
use the NIV A lot. It's an eleventh grade reading level,
and the New King James's first year College, the NASB

(52:34):
New American Standard version is higher than that, but it's
different English. So if you read the King James version,
it would be like thy house. We don't talk like
that in America. We don't go thy house. We say
more right, we say the house. So it's got old
English like language. So when they got what they did

(52:55):
was they made the New King James and they got
they changed that language. But between like the Sea Scrolls
and that, all the different things they've found in historical
and the actual Bible that you're talking about, like the
King James version, do you know how many differences there are.
There's seven words and they're not theological words. They're just
like things like that, like the versus the So they

(53:16):
will not change like you know anything about the Trinity
or the Bible or Jesus. There's seven differences and that's nothing.
So it really gets better we've written. I mean, there's
some freakish Bibles out there, like a couple that are
really weird, like you know, where they don't use male
terms or something like that. But no, there's the regular

(53:36):
Bible is mainstream. You know, ninety percent of the Bibles
are fine. There's just a few that are kind of
odd ball ones like Lately that, but you know, niv
nasby New King James, they're all fine, you know. But
really that's if you look up the validity of the Bible,
you can read that it really does say that there's
only seven different seven word differences and they don't mean anything.

(53:57):
So I don't know, so no one.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yeah, if Gods does does come to me, does speak
to me, I will listen. I will listen to what yes,
and I will make a decision then and there.

Speaker 5 (54:14):
I hope. So I really do you know?

Speaker 2 (54:16):
I always.

Speaker 5 (54:20):
Did you ever hear of Lee Strobel? I know you're
in the Netherlands, but Lee Strobel was an I think
it was a Chicago Tribune reporter or something, maybe New
York Times. I'm not sure, but he was an atheist
and he was married to an atheist and his wife
became a Christian, and he was really upset about it
because he's like, oh no, you know, not that she
was acting weird, but he just thought they would be

(54:40):
atheists together. So they had a daughter, and then he
decided for two years just to look at extra biblical data,
not the Bible, just extra biblical data because he wanted
to destroy the resurrection and say that the resurrection is
not true because everything lies on the resurrection, you know.
And what he happened, he became a Christian two years

(55:00):
later only looking at extra biblical data. He said that
there is too much proof here. I cannot not believe this.
And now he's written like sixty six books. I'm not
kidding you, the Case for Christ, the Case for Easter,
the Case for a Creator. He's got movies out there.
I mean, he's a pastor now. I mean, if you
ever look up Lee's strobul I read some of his books,

(55:21):
I mean extreme research. And I'm not a big researcher.
I researched somewhat, but I mean he's huge on research,
and I was just amazed that this guy really took
the time to you know, two years he spent just looking,
and he actually went to Europe and he went into
all these old libraries in different places, and you know,
really did the research on it. So it's just, you know,

(55:43):
it's just interesting. So I hope the Lord uses me
as an author for somebody one day. So I may
not be as research oriented as he is, but I
hope he uses me.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
You know, well, who knows, Maybe I will. That's only
only he knows. Only he knows what's what his plan is.
Only he knows what is his next But hey, you know,
perhaps to entice some people, where can they find your book?
Where can they Where can they find it?

Speaker 5 (56:10):
You can find it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble online,
Walmart online. Most people buy a lot of books from Amazon.
But locally, I mean, I know this you're in the Netherlands,
but if you live in western New York Buffalo area,
I mean, it's at a lot of stores here, but primarily,
like I said, online, Amazon, Barnes and Noble online, Walmart online,
Books a million online. It's right here. Bridge of Love thirty.

(56:32):
My last name is German. And they put the c
in w Alck. So when they came over from Germany,
they put the C in to make it more German.
To me, I just have to spell it more so
it does I have to go w Alck, you know.
So thank you for having me on. I super appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
It's it's my pleasure. It's always good having a I
don't want to call it the discussion, more of a debate.
A high mind is conversation with someone, especially of opposite beliefs.
I always find that that very interesting, trying to to
make the case for yourself, trying to make the case
for for each other. Luckily, over over the years we

(57:14):
have all learned to do it in a civil manner.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
That saves a whole lot of troubles. There's a whole
lot of issues, right, but yeah, Pamela, pam thank you
very much for for coming out. Thank you very much
for this, for this talk. You know, I I I
will keep my promise if he indeed comes to me,
I will listen, I am.

Speaker 5 (57:36):
You know, yeah, please, I really, really, I really this
is like urgent, like you don't want to you need
a hit by a bus tomorrow, you know what I mean?
Like you really this is an urgent kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
It's not just about the you know, if I get
hit by a bus tomorrow, then apparently that was God's
will right.

Speaker 5 (57:56):
With him. So that's how the other place is terrible.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
So I would much prefer not going there. It sounds
like a terrible place. I mean, I don't I don't
mind warmth, but you know, like the heat heat of
that place. Yeah, it's a little much. I mean, I'm
you know, I'm Dutch, Northern Europe. There's there's a reason
why we're quite.

Speaker 5 (58:21):
His verses on Hell because he doesn't want anybody to
go there. He was warning them, he was warning them,
you know.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
So sounds like a terrible place to be. So by
all means, I'm gonna at least, at the very least
try and stay away from there, as I encourage everyone to.
It's not a fun place to be. So just you know,
big good, be hinds and live for love. I guess. So, yeah,
thank you so much. This has been oh still still

(58:48):
one hour. But you're very passionate about this. So but yeah,
for everyone watching, for everyone listening, thank you very much
for joining us. I leave it like in this video,
leave something something nice in the comments. I know y'all
leave something nice, Okay, be warrant share this conversation, Share

(59:08):
this video with everyone, because we can have these discussions,
even though we do believe in the same or in
different things, we can have these discussions. Subscribe to the channel,
ring the notification bell so that you get notified whenever
I have another one of these great, great talks, great discussions.

(59:28):
And check out our sponsor shop Reclaim Repurpose and his
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(59:51):
and for all the rest that we do with the
Greendard Pagans. Start with the gas podcast. Go to our
website ww dot Greyarnpagans dot com. Everything get beef out
on there, from the tribe to the podcast, to books, blogs,
you name it. Everything is on there. And if you're surfing,

(01:00:11):
if you're in the market, check out Pamela or her
book as well.

Speaker 5 (01:00:15):
Like it's also an ebook too, so you know, because
I know you guys are in Europe and everything. It's
the e book also, so thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
I mean I can, I can get physical physical copies
from from Amazon, but ebook I will. I will look
into it. I will ye the passage that you or
the part of the chapter that you wrote it. It
sounds very good. You're very very good writer, so I
will most definitely check it out. For now, I wish

(01:00:44):
you all a good day, good evening, good night wherever
you w and be, and onto the next summer. Everyone,
Bye bye, thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:01:02):
This was yet another amazing episode of the Greyhorn Pagans podcast.
We thank you all for watching. We thank you all
for listening. Remember to like, share, subscribe, and hit that
notification bell so you will be notified whenever we upload
something new. Support us on Patreon for early access and

(01:01:25):
for everything else that we do with the tribe. For
everything else that we do with the podcast, find us
on wwlpagans dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
For now, we thank you, and until next time,