S06E03 - Noblesse Oblige

After that brief hiatus to enjoy City Primeval, we are back to wrap up Season 6!

Join Chris and Randy this week for a look at Season 6, Episode 3 of Justified, Noblesse Oblige. In this episode of Groundless, your hosts: Realize after the episode was recorded that we didn't bother to give the background of our director, except for Robocop; Discover Chris's comments about a new Mel Gibson/Jim Caveziel movie did not age well; Lean about the real-life pot kings of Kentucky, The Cornbread Mafia; Speculate about Wynn Duffy's underwear choices when he's not tanning; Learn about RICO in our often imitated, never duplicated Law Minute.

Back in two weeks with episode 4 of Season 6. Until then, check out the socials @groundlesspod or @groundlesspodcast. E-mail us [e-mail] with your complaints, suggestions, corrections, or love troubles! Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review - and tell a friend or family member about the show.

Thanks for listening!

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/groundless-a-justified-podcast--5328867/support.

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Rolling down the Build, the bloodand Speed, a bowl coldd like a
tail on night, Tornado, Ringof Promisol kids, Swit one hand on
the grass, pie he Ever onwheel, doublriding shot gun, singing boy,

(00:29):
Let's make a deal. This isGroundless a Justified podcast. This is
a podcast where we watch every episodeof Justified and then come on here and
talk about it. I'm Chris,that man is Randy. Yeah. You
know, this episode was pretty muchall Ava all the time. Huh yeah,
yeah, it was. And youknow what's funny about it is that,

(00:50):
like, I don't have a tonof notes on Ava in this episode
because she doesn't the Ava elements.She's sort of involved in every plot line
that happens, but she's not reallydriving the plot forward at the same time,
right yeah, yeah, yeah,but but yeah, it's definitely it
definitely kind of highlights what we talkedabout a little bit, that that this

(01:14):
is Ava's kind of season. Seasonsix is Ava's season. It's not anything
else. I think that's fair.Yeah, but that's what we're talking about.
Season six, episode three of Justified, an episode called Noblesse Oblige.
That episode originally aired February third,twenty fifteen and our synopsis. Boyd makes
the uncomfortable discovery that the man heis trying to rob is very dangerous,

(01:38):
and Raylan tries to put the squeezeon Boyd's explosives supplier. This episode written
by Peter Weller and direct I'm Sorry. Directed by Peter Weller and written by
Taylor Elmore and Benjamin Cavell. Weknow those guys, all of them.
Peter Weller does one episode of seasonbehind the camera, and Taylor and Benjamin

(02:00):
and of course have been involved withthe show pretty much from day one.
So so that's the guy from aRoboCop Peter, Yes, yeah, exactly.
Oh wow, Yeah, well that'scool. Yeah, it's really cool.
Yeah, all right, I justjust dawned on me. Yeah yeah,
I think I think maybe I mentionedthat last season. I don't remember,

(02:20):
but but yeah, I think hedoes one episode every year. I've
justified so so yeah. Oh andhis son I justutely looking at up right
now. His son is uh,what Superman? Is that? Right?
Tom Waller? Yeah, that's thewhat's it called the small Ville? Oh?

(02:45):
Okay, it's not him though,Oh it's not him. Okay,
I've never seen Smallville. I don'tknow. I don't know. The only
thing I know about small Ville isthat that woman who was involved in that
sex cult. Yeah, oh man, And it wasn't even the one that
I would have wanted in the sexcould you know. That's the problem with

(03:12):
sex cults. You can't pick andchoose, you know, you can only
attempt to recruit. You can sometimesyou score. That's really next to him.
That's what that thing was called,the same it was. What was
her name of that girl, Oh, Alison mac h Salison. Man.

(03:36):
She ended up like the jail fora little while. I think she's she
might be in jail. She mightstill be, I don't remember. I
think she got she got like threeyears, and that was in like twenty
twenty one, so she's probably Yeah, it's federal time, so she's probably
still in jail. Yeah, thatdude's in there forever. They threw away
the key with him. Yeah,well they got to go after all those

(03:59):
c I guys who were running him. Oh yeah, I'm sure. I'm
sure. That's actually probably not farfrom the truth. It's somewhere there.
The truth is, they were definitelyin the organization. It was too many
high powered and wealthy people involved inthat thing for them not to be Yeah.
Yeah, well Mel Gibson our favoriteactor and director. Yes, him

(04:24):
and the guy from a Person ofInterest, John Cavizel, who played Hey
Sus in Last five? Was itLast Temptation? Oh? No, Passion
of the Christs of the Christ.Yes, yeah, they have a movie
coming out about all the human traffickingand adrena chrome and all that stuff.
Jez all right, well I'll besure to be sure to catch that one

(04:47):
in the theater. They'll suppress it, so right. Oh yeah, so
we'll be in the theater. It'llonly be on alternative media. Yeah.
Yeah, oh I got my ticketsalready though. Shut down Porto Theaters of
Worldwide. We'll be uh we'll bea reopening for one night only. They're

(05:09):
called art House for Venues. Yeah. Are our guest stars this week?
We have We have two we wantto talk about. First is one of
the members of the Gang, theWalker Gang, or if you want to
call it now, the the AveryMarkham Gang. Uh Sea Bass Sea Bass

(05:32):
is played by guy named Scott Grimes. You might recognize him, especially if
you've watched Er or Party of Five. He was in seventy episodes of Party
of five and one hundred and twelveepisodes of R So very prolific. He
was also in Band of Brothers theoriginal run. He was in all ten

(05:53):
episodes of that. Uh. Hewas in Critters one and two, and
I don't know if you remember Critters, a eighties era horror movie with these
little fuzzy creatures that would kill you. I don't remember that. Yeah,
And he does the voice of SteveSmith, the son on American dadd He's

(06:13):
been in three hundred and fifty threeepisodes of American Dad and who knew American
Dad had made three hundred and fiftythree episodes? Certainly not me. That's
uh, that's wild, is that? What's the other one with Stewie Family
Guy? Is that family guy?Yeah? Same producer. I think think
Seth McFarland produces both of them.Yeah, well it seems like they have
very similar like animation style. Yeah, you know, like so it's like

(06:38):
a signature thing that I associate withwhat's his name, the uh, Seth
McFarland. Yeah, yeah, Iknow he's involved somehow. I just I'm
not sure if he's like if he'sa showrunner or a producer. Like he
has a family guy or if it'smore or that he's just like an executive
producer sort of thing. Yeah,but so that's Scott grime Ce Bass.

(07:00):
Uh. And then our our ourother guest start this week is Brent Briscoe
who is Luther Kent. And Brentpassed away unfortunately in October of twenty seventeen,
so he hasn't done much lately.But uh, but uh, he's
in some big movies. He's inThe Dark Night Rises, He's in The
Green Mile A Simple Plan, whichis a fantastic film. If you haven't

(07:25):
seen it, Billy Bob Thornton,Uh, you gotta go check it out.
Uh. It's about these guys whostumble across a bunch of money in
the woods and and try and figureout what to do with it. It
will it will definitely make you thinktwice between that and No Country for Old
Men, if you ever find moneysitting somewhere, just just walk away,

(07:46):
walk as fast as you can inthe other direction, could you imagine?
Yeah, because like I think hewas, you know, like you don't
walk away from if it's two billiondollars, like lying there that doesn't doesn't
go you know, unnoticed, right, Yeah, somebody's gonna someone will be
missing that money, it's like,and they're going to come looking for it.

(08:09):
It's yeah. Well I saw aTikTok the other day of these people
who found a black bag washed upon the beach in Florida, and I'm
like, yeah, you don't wantto open that. They called the cops,
and the cops start unpacking bundle afterbundle after bundle of drugs. So
yeah, oh yeah, Well Iwonder if these car tails like have a

(08:35):
calculator, you know, like becauseyou know, like these shrinking stores or
whatever. Yeah, yeah, theyhave to calculate that into their operations.
Oh, they totally do. Butthey also put trackers in all those bags.
You don't want to take one homenot find the tracker and end up
yeah, I mean plus or youknow, what if it's a bait bag.
What if it's the cops who aresetting somebody up or trying to set

(08:56):
somebody up, and you grab itand take it home and now all of
a sudden you're going to jail.Well it's a stealing. Oh, I
guess it would be stealing. Literallytechnically I think it is stealing, but
no, I know it's also possession. So yeah, and if it's wrapped
up in bundles like that, it'spossession with intent. Good luck proven.
Otherwise it's like the Leach, we'lljust do the civil asset forfiture because you

(09:22):
have no proof of what comes.Yeah, le'll just take all your stuff.
Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly.Yep, just walk away, folks.
That's the that's the illegal advice fromyour friends at the Groundless podcast.
And I have the red Devil onthe other shoulders. You're like, just
take a little bit, don't takeall your beak. Yeah, exactly so.

(09:50):
Brent Briscoe also in Mulholland Drive,the David Lynch film Twin Peaks twenty
seventeen, the revival of Twin Peaks. He was in that another David Lynch
show, Brooklyn ninety nine Parks andRecreation, Evening Shade. He wasn't So
Evening Shade is the Burt Reynolds TVshow from the eighties. I don't know

(10:11):
if you remember that at all.It wasn't like an Alaska or something like
that, right different. I thinkthat's a different one. I don't remember
where Evening Shade took place, butbut yeah, it's I think it was
a detective show if I'm not mistaken, And uh yeah, he played set
he played. He was on sevenepisodes but played different characters. I don't
know if it was different characters onall of them, but on several of

(10:31):
them he played different characters, whichI love. And then Hell on Wheels,
which, uh, you know,the first few seasons of Hell on
Wheels are are really really enjoyable.I liked it a lot. It's about
the railroad, building the railroad acrossthe continent in the in the post Civil

(10:52):
War era, and you've got alot of these former Civil War guys and
a lot of freed slaves who areworking on the railroads. And then on
the Pacific side you had the importedChinese working on the railroads. And uh,
it's it's a really really interesting,cool show, very stylized, common,

(11:13):
isn't it. It's it's good.I enjoyed it a lot. So
if you have a chance to checkit out. I don't know if it's
anywhere on streaming. I haven't reallyseen it anywhere, but but check out
Hell on Wheels if you're looking forsomething to watch. I enjoyed it a
lot, so, uh yeah,that gets us through our episode basics,
which means it's time to take aquick trip back to the week of February

(11:33):
three, twenty fifteen, and seewhat was going on in popular culture at
the time. Are you telling meyou built a time machine kind of a
Doloreate And we climb into that doloreanto get us back there, and we
find our number one movie and ournumber one song are the same as they
were last week. We're back anotherweek with American Sniper number one at the

(11:54):
box office grossed another forty million dollarsthis week, for a total of two
hundred and fifty eight million UH atUptown Funk. And it's fourth week at
number one, and UH, andI'm starting to suspect that that it's it's
gonna be the only song we mentionedall season. It's doing really well.

(12:15):
There's there's a couple of uh there'sa couple of songs that are kind of
creeping up behind it that I thinkmight might sort of catch up, like
like for this week, Thinking OutLoud by Ed Sheeran is number two,
and take Me to Church by Jjieris number three, and then you've got
two Taylor Swift songs behind it.But the Taylor Swift songs and one of

(12:35):
them would shake it off. U. Both of those songs were already at
number one, so they're not comingback up. So I feel like maybe,
I don't know, maybe this thismight do it. It might be
Uptown Funk for the rest of forthe rest of Justify, But we'll see.
And then of course, uh,we're gonna take a quick look at

(12:56):
our lesser known organized crime story ofthe week. This week, we're gonna
learn about the Cornbread Mafia and itplays in very nicely to what we're talking
about here in season six. Sothe Cornbread Mafia is a set of Kentucky
gangsters organized the growing and distribution ofmarijuana. So in nineteen nineteen eighty nine,

(13:20):
between nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty nine, there were seventy men arrested across
thirty farms in ten states for growingpot. And essentially, at the time
when these guys started, the copsthought that the marijuana in the US was
mostly coming from imports from South Americafrom Asia. But these guys had figured

(13:41):
out that, hey, we're onthe same line of latitude as the Hindu
Kush Mountains, which are between Afghanistanand Pakistan, and if you know anything
about weed culture, the word kushis used to as slang for weed,
and it's done for a reason.There's some of the best weed in the
world has grown in those mountains.And they figured out, hey, we're

(14:03):
on the same line of latitude,we probably have very similar growing conditions,
and realized that, oh, yeah, Kentucky is the best place in one
of the best places in the worldto grow pot, much like much like
our friend Avery Markham has figured out. And so they built an empire,
and yeah, between nineteen eighty fiveand eighty nine, there's seventy people were

(14:24):
arrested accused of growing one hundred andeighty two tons of marijuana. By the
end of ninety one, one hundredpeople were arrested. And so a couple
of things that were interesting here.They're famous for maintenance of the code of
silence. So of the hundred peoplethat were arrested, none of them cooperated

(14:46):
with authorities. Nobody talked to thecops, and so the cops were never
able to charge it as a continuingcriminal enterprise, which is sort of like
RICO except for drugs. So theygot them all on individual charges. But
weren't able to kind of bump thosecharges up and get the additional penalties that
were associated with with running a criminalenterprise. And so good on them,

(15:09):
right, don't talk to the cops, you know that. Don't talk to
the cops. Just don't talk tothe cops. And they they maintained the
code of silence, and they allgot they all ended up going to jail,
or many of them ended up goingto jail, but they didn't go
to jail for one hundred years likethey would have if if somebody had started
talking. Yeah, and they getestablished the enterprise existing. As soon as

(15:31):
you can do that, man,those penalties jump up dramatically. So and
we'll talk more about Rico in thisepisode actually very very soon here and talk
about why rico is is utilized.And then and then another interesting thing,
So, from twenty eleven to twentysixteen, Obama issued a bunch of pardons
and commuted sentences. And in thoseUH, there were three people who were

(15:56):
offenders in the Cornbread mafia who wereeither hardened or had received a significantly commuted
sentences UH based on their convictions forgrowing and selling pot. So I thought
that was interesting. I think it'sinteresting that they have, like because they
were active when in from the eightiesuntil the early nineties. Eighties. Yeah,

(16:18):
it looks like from the from thelate seventies to the early nineties.
Yeah, and they called the cornbreadMaffia because the cornbrit of Maffia sounds like
something it would be like a hillbillylike during Prohibition or something like. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's interestingthat that that that that. Yeah,
they're they aren't called something pot related, right, it's cornbread. It's
that. But yeah, it originatedin Kentucky, but kind of was across

(16:42):
like multiple states like Minnesota and Missouriand Illinois and Indiana and states like that,
and a bunch of those ten tendifferent states. Tennessee probably. I'm
guessing that that our friend hot RodDunham is from familiar with the Cornbread Mafia.

(17:03):
Yeah, yeah, as he waswriting them out or whatever. Yeah,
exactly. I think that, uh, you know, I think that
this is sort of what they triedto recreate with Mag's Bennett. I'm guessing
I if I had researched it alittle bit, I probably would have found
some ties to Mag's Bennett and herempire in Kentucky and the relationship of that
to the cornbread mafia, I'm guessing. So I do think it's interesting because

(17:29):
this episode takes place during a timewhere, you know, marijuana is getting
decriminalized all over the country. Yeah, and it's just funny to me that
you know, like one day,oh, the law goes away and all
these people who are probably some arestill in jail. Yeah, are these
crimes? They should be like,you know, it was like a non

(17:49):
violent crime. They should be likebeing set free. Yeah. And if
I'm not mistaken, our our respectedattorney general now vice president from the state
of California, fought uh to keepthose people in jail. Oh yeah,
that's right, that's right. Soyeah, oh yeah, and she was

(18:11):
the one who's like laughing about likesevy people of jail. Oh yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah no,because there's a prison industrial complex and your
slave labor and the whole thing.I've I've been very much radicalized on crime
and punishment. If you haven't seenmy views evolve over the last three years,
then's yeah, I've been radicalized.I'd like to think that I played

(18:33):
a part of that, some smallpart, I would say, yes,
absolutely, But yeah, so that'sthe that's the cornbread muffee. I thought
that was an interesting story to tohear about. It ties nicely into season
six here. But but that getsus through the trip back. So let's
get to the episode. So weopen up with with Boyd and Ava having

(18:59):
drank the bottle to the corners.As Boyd says, they're there, three
sheets to the wind, UH lyingon the bar and uh Ava gets called
to work to open except it's it'sreally actually Raylan because he needs a meeting,
and when she arrives, she's she'scompletely UH in the bag. When

(19:22):
she arrives, she's driving her cardrunk, really like incapacitated drunk. She's
driving and she can't even get outof the car. She she has to
get out the passage. She triesto get out the passenger side and falls
down. It's it's it's quite thelittle UH entertaining pratfall moment. But but
Raylan has some bad news for herbecause when she shows up, Uh a

(19:48):
Usa Vasquez, who who Raylan latercalls a Usa Napoleon. And I really
enjoyed that UH is there. Ohyou know what they're something I did want
to point out about Boyd's conversation withAva when they were drunk at the bar.
She was talking about being a cheerleaderand about how he was never He
talks about how he was never anathlete, and he mentions that having a

(20:12):
drug dealer for a daddy made ithard for him to get to practice on
time. And the question that Iwrote is, well, what about Bowman.
Bowman had a drug dealer for adaddy too, and he was a
football star who was going to go, you know, to the NFL before
he got before he got hurt.That's a good question. It turns out
it's not so much your daddy,Boyd. It's you, Boyd, always

(20:33):
blaming someone else for his problems,right, Boyd, like Tony Soprano,
didn't have the makings of a varsityathlete. He never had the makings of
a varsity athlete. Yeah. So, so Ava finds out, much to
her chagrin, that both Rachel andVaskaz are there to have a conversation with

(20:56):
her about why they why they havinggot any information from her yet. I've
got a few points on this thatwe'll get to, but I have a
clip that I want to play first, and this is a writ it is
outlining the terms your confidential inform andarrangement with the US Attorney's Office, where
you stipulate that you will obtain andrelay relevant information that may lead to charges

(21:18):
against Boyd Crowder. I know whatall would say is, I haven't forgotten
what our arrangement is. Well,I'm really happy to hear that, because
up until now I'm having a reallyhard time seeing how you're holding up to
your side of the bargain. It'skind of been a dry well, miss
Crowder. You need to give ussomething makes us lean forward. Otherwise what
are we doing? I told youI am working on and we heard you.

(21:41):
Our point is point is that youcan throw a stone into any one
of these ship pack hollers and hitsome random hillbilly with more information than you've
been able to dredge up so far. I just made time. I've barely
been out a couple of weeks.How am I some weeks is irrelevant word
in that sentence, Miss Krowders.It has been weeks without any use information
from you, weeks with crimes thatare happening that we know little to nothing

(22:04):
about. She gets the picture?Does she look at her? You don't
think you're making an impression. MissCrowder, I understand you're feeling under the
weather, and I understand you're feelinga little picked on, But you need

(22:25):
to understand if you don't bring ussomething relevant and tangible within the week,
your time as a CI is done. You'll be remanded back to prisoners,
serve out your sentence, or dietrying. Right, you come all the
way to harlan To's threatened. Maycouldn't my phone call save yourself a trip?

(22:49):
No, Raylan, I understand youain't getting your wife fast enough suits
you, So you bring these twoassholes up here to impress upon me the
severity of my situation. Wow,consider myself impressed now, if you'll excuse

(23:12):
me, I have just throw Look, she's doing a fantastic job playing a
playing a drunk, right I.It's one of the hardest things you can
do as an actor is to convincinglyplay drunk, and she's doing really well.
She she really played up the accent, which is absolutely something that happens

(23:37):
to people when they're when they havean accent they're drunk, it it comes
out more, it becomes more pronounced. That's it was well well done on
Joel Carter's part here to play Avain this situation. I think I think
this is probably one of the onlyopenings that they've had where it ended like
on a line like that, Likeit's a like a kind of a haha

(23:57):
lot, you know, like,oh, well, excuse me now while
I go throw up, and theyyeah, like it just goes into into
the the intro. There's been acouple sort of cold opens that have had,
you know, moments like that.I think of the one in season
one where the guy breaks out ofprison and Raylan's at the gas station and

(24:18):
uh, he takes his hat andlocks him in the freezer or whatever,
and Raylan goes, well, shit, right, that's that's one. And
but but you're absolutely right. It'syou know, other shows kind of go
for, oh, we're going tohit that laugh line really hard right before
we go to the credits, becausethat's what we do in our cold opens.
But but this show doesn't do thattoo often. Usually they're looking for

(24:40):
a more dramatic moment. Yeah exactly. So, so yeah, they're they're
intimidating her for not getting the information. And there's a few things and I
want to talk about here. Oneof them's Rico, and we'll get to
that in a second. But thefirst thing I want to talk about is
as as our as our good buddyMike the attorney U points out to us
on our email That's Groundless podcast atgmail dot com as he was sort of

(25:06):
watching ahead, he said, Hey, you know, look, Ava hasn't
been convicted of anything at this point. She was in jail awaiting trial on
charges related to her stabbing the guard. Yet Rachel says you'll be or Vasca
says you'll be remanded to prison andfinish out the rest of your sentence,
and she hasn't been sentenced to anything, like like, what are they going

(25:32):
to put her back in jail?Four? And this is again kind of
the inconsistent to see that we've pointedout throughout this season, where it's like,
Okay, wait a minute, Whywhy is Ava under the threat of
going back to jail if she doesn'tcooperate, if the prison guard has rescinded
his statement and she was never convictedof anything, and they can't convict her

(25:53):
of the the the dead body chargeand so it's kind of a well,
they have to have some level ofauthority or power over her. In order
to get her to cooperate, Sothey had to do this, right,
Yeah, Is there any other waythat they could have forced her into No,

(26:15):
No, they don't. I don'tthink so. I mean, potentially
as part of this, they couldhave gotten her to sign something that said
that she committed the crime. Maybemaybe that was the deal. Maybe her
agreement says that, you know,maybe it required her to plead guilty to
the body issue in exchange for gettingout right. And it's like, she

(26:37):
signs a confession that says that shedid what they accused her of doing,
and in exchange, she's allowed orthey'll defer her prosecution and if she assists
them, they'll choose to not prosecuteher, something like that. And Ava
was so desperate to get out ofthe can at that point that maybe maybe
it's possible that that's what was goingon, although if her lawyer was involved,

(26:57):
he never would have let her signthat. M So, yeah,
I don't know. But Mike makesa great point, and uh, and
you know, it's it's one thatI've that I've been wondering about too.
So. But but again it's it'sa pretty big continuity error here for him
to say finish out the rest ofyour sentence. That's not she she hasn't

(27:18):
been sentenced to anything at this point. Yeah. I mean, so she's
basically had been held pending trial.Yeah exactly. Yeah. Bro, they
they they'd made it so that shecouldn't get bail, and then she assaulted
a prison guard while she was injail. So they're not going to let
you out after you do that,for sure. So they're gonna you're gonna
stay in jail awaiting trial. Soyeah, But but I mentioned that we're

(27:41):
going to talk about Rico a littlebit, and so I figured it'd be
a good time to to have alegal minute. Say hello to Miguel Sanchez.
What we call a blah blah that'sa lol blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah. But I wantto settle I'm not super prepared, Oh
sure, like lawyers work in bigskyscrapers and have secretaries. I look at

(28:04):
him, he's wearing a belt.That's all he went for. You.
I moved for a bad court thingyyou mean a mistrial. Yeah, that's
why you're the judge, and I'mthe law talking guy, the lawyer,
right, I am jacked. Asthe as the resident law talking guy,
I'm going to talk about the RacketeerInfluenced and Corrupt Organizations Act a little bit.

(28:29):
So that's what RICO stands for,URICO, Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations.
It's designed to attack organized crime,and it was signed into law by
Nixon in nineteen seventy. Presumably Ididn't I didn't quite go back this far
to sort of find its origination,but I assume Bobby Kennedy was a big
fan, given how aggressively he wentafter certain elements of organized crime, the

(28:56):
ones that weren't directly involved with hisfather at least, and and and so
signed into law by Nixt in thenineteen seventy. And basically the way RICO
works is it's constructed off of whatare called RICO predicates. In order to
qualify for prosecution under RICO, youhave to have at least two acts of
racketeering activity they call it, whichare which are what they call the RICO

(29:19):
predicates. And and these can includethings like gambling, murder, kidnapping,
extortion, bribery, arson. WhatI thought was interesting is distribution of obscenity,
distribution of obscene material. So ifyou were distributing pornography in an illegal
way, that would get you potentiallyflagged for prosecution under RICO too. You

(29:41):
know, prior to pornography's ubiquity onthe Internet or in convenience stores even you
know, back in the nineties,it was a lot harder to get your
hands on and a lot of stateshad very strict laws against those sorts of
things. Some states even still dohave strict lot we've seen in recent years

(30:03):
uh Utah and now Virginia I believe, have both passed laws requiring age verification
for Internet sites and uh and asa result they've been blocked from accessing pornhub
and so so those are some ofthe state crimes. There's federal crimes also
that can be included under RICO.Bribery, counterfeiting. Counterfeiting is one that

(30:27):
you would not have at the statelevel. Slavery another one that's included as
a RICO predicate. Murder for highercriminal copyright infringement, so if you run
a ring of of IP thieves,you can potentially be indicted under RICO.
And terrorism is one of the morerecent additions I believe to the to the

(30:49):
RICO predicates list, but ultimately thepredicates have to be related to each other
and to the organization, so youhave to have the rule is under the
law same or similar purposes results,participants, victims, or methods of commission.
So if they're related crimes, youcan potentially prosecute them under RICO.

(31:10):
And why do you want to prosecuteit under RICO? Well, that's because
you get twenty years per count.So for every RICO predicate that you're charged
with, it's twenty years, regardlessof whether the crime, whether the punishment
for the underlying crime is much less. So you think about a crime like
robbery that might have a punishment ofup to twenty years, but is far

(31:33):
more frequently charged or far more frequentlysentenced in the you know, three to
five year range, unless it's youknow, a violent armed robbery. You
can now charge twenty years for everyindividual count of robbery and two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars fine per count.Also plus asset forfeiture. Right, so

(31:55):
you've got civil asset fortress forfeiture ofany illgotten gains. What sets RICO apart
from other criminal laws, UH likeit? Their civil enforcement of RICO.
So you can sue someone, youcan sue an organization under RICO. Typically

(32:15):
what you will find is a fraudallegation will be brought under RICO, and
you can civilly sue for damages relatedto the criminal enterprise. Uh. And
in fact, I worked at acompany that was sued along with some of
its customers alleging a RICO conspiracy,and that that suit was very quickly dismissed.

(32:40):
It was trumped up nonsense. Butbut it was interesting to get that
in the mail and get the serviceof process and have it say, oh,
you're you're being sued for the violationof the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations
Acts. And I'm like, holyshit, where am I working? That's

(33:01):
like, uh, what is it? They call it? H lawfair?
Is that? That is that?What it is? Where are they?
You know, somebody that just youknow, like they may not even been
like injured or damaged or what,but they sue you anyway. Oh yeah,
yeah, Well, typically lack ofstanding is what they call that.

(33:22):
If you're suing someone and you don'thave you don't have an actual injury related
to that, you have lack ofstanding to sue because you're required to have
been damaged in order to recover,h okay, but usually you can,
you can figure out a way toallege some damages, and in this case
they did. They figured out away to allege some damages. The problem

(33:44):
was identifying the criminal conspiracy, right, you have to prove the underlying fraud,
and fraud notoriously difficult to prove,by the way, not that there
was any going on here, butat the same time, very very difficult
to prove fraud. That's why youdon't see a whole lot of fraud convictions
outside of the the big flashy ones. Really difficult because you have to show

(34:07):
intent. Uh. And it's veryeasy for somebody like you know, Elizabeth
Holmes for example, to get upthere and say, hey, I did
not intend to defraud these investors.It's it was it was inadvertent. I
was. I was talking about myvision for the company. It wasn't intent
to to to steal their money.I was. I was talking about a

(34:30):
future state that I thought I couldachieve. And and all of a sudden,
now it's not fraud, right becauseyou you don't have the intent to
deceive. You you are you believedwhat you were saying. It's the George
Castanza, right. If you believeit, it's not a lie. So
yeah, notoriously difficult to get fraud. So a couple of famous Rico cases

(34:52):
I just wanted to mention before webefore we move on here. Hell's Angels,
uh were were charged under RICO backin the seventies for guns and drugs.
That one failed, they could notget a conviction. They charged the
Key West Police Department with RICO andthey were successful in this one. So

(35:15):
they were running a protection racket forillegal cocaine smugglers. And this is one
we'll talk about in This is onewe'll talk about in the lesser known organized
crime later this season. But butyeah, the Key West Police Department.
Look that up if you get achance. That's a fun one to read
about. Major League Baseball sued underRICO. This is a civil enforcement action.

(35:38):
The league essentially, in a secretballot, voted to contract the league.
And one of the things they weredoing was eliminating the twins in the
Expos. So, I don't knowif you remember in the late nineties early
two thousands, when the Expos movedfrom Montreal to Washington, they became the
Nationals. Oh but the reason thathappened is because Major League Baseball wanted to

(36:02):
eliminate the Minnesota Twins and the MontrealExpos from the league. They wanted to
contract two teams out of the league. They were sued by the owner of
the Expos for fraud and conspiracy,the idea being that they were engaged in
an action to devalue the team andmake it essentially impossible for him to realize

(36:23):
the value of his asset, andif they had contracted the league, that
absolutely would have happened, right hewould not have been able to sell the
team for anywhere near the value ofthe team. And that case lasted two
years. Eventually, Major League Baseballprevailed they were not found guilty or a
liable under RICO. And then probablythe most famous Rico case ever is the

(36:45):
Gambino crime family. John Gotti,the teflon don, was eventually convicted under
Rico. After dodging crime after crimeafter crime, being found not guilty over
and over and over again, uhthey federal prosecutors managed to get him on
Rico charges for his mafia activity,gambling, racketeering, murder from hire,

(37:08):
et cetera. Et cetera. Andit was eventually sentenced to life in prison
for for his reco predicates and hedied in jail. So Yo, I
lost your man. Oh you did, Lou? Yeah, Lou oh man
again. Yeah, you like justblocked out like there until just now.
How long did you lose before?Uh? Maybe about ten seconds? Oh?

(37:31):
Okay, all right, that's weird. I don't know what's going on,
super weird. But I was talkingabout I'll go back and fix this
one. Let me flag it here, I'll go back and fix this.
And I was just talking about Gaudiand how he got away with everything right
up until he didn't and he gotlife in prison and died there. So

(37:53):
do you think that because there's thisbook that called three Felonies a Day and
it has to do with how youknow somebody who's just like a regular working
guy, or you know, maybethey unintentionally or inadvertently because there's so many
laws that you could be prosecute undercommit three felonies a day. That was

(38:15):
a book by Harvey silver Clate.Oh, I've never heard of that book,
but but I have heard of theconcept right of of how how we're
essentially all walking around compromised, right, because yeah, because they've they've there's
so many laws, and the lawsare so complicated, and some of us,
you know, you've inadvertently committed taxfraud or you've inadvertently violated some sort

(38:37):
of some sort of law that youdidn't even know existed that hasn't been prosecuted
in forty years or whatever. Yeah, but if they need to get you
on something, they can trust whatthey do that. Yeah, yeah,
exactly exactly. So if you're ifyou fall under that eye of Sauron,
then you know, good luck basically, right, right exactly. And and

(39:00):
you know, I look at Rico. I've always sort of seen RICO as
one of the more sort of positivelaws that around this area. And the
reason I say that is, youknow, it's been used, it's been
misused over time, but it isstill relatively difficult to make a Rico case,
relatively difficult to to get a convictionin a Rico case. But I

(39:24):
see it as the ability to punishthe truly bad actors in a much more
severe way than an individual right ifyou go out rather so rather than you
know, make one extortion charge punishableby twenty years in prison, you know,
because you threatened a guy and extortedsome money from him one time or

(39:49):
a couple times. Rather than makethat punishable by by twenty years in prison,
what they've done is they've said,Okay, if you do that as
an individual, you're going to geta couple of years. But if you
run a criminal enterprise that does thatand that's how you make your income,
we are going to throw the bookat you because we're not going to allow
criminal enterprise. And so I've alwayssort of seen RICO as a very positive

(40:14):
thing for individuals versus corrupt organizations.But that's just how I feel about it.
The only laws that there should beon the books are any laws of
violence where you're attacking somebody or Idon't know, it seems like it's so
overly complicated, right it is.Right, there's no reason for the United

(40:36):
States Code to take up an entirewall in a library, right, It's
it's it's crazy. The Constitution isonly however many ethic is what does that
say? But like the laws toimplement it are like what thousands you can
fit? You can fit that littlepaper copy of the Constitution in your breast
pocket, right, but you can'tyou can't even take one section of the

(40:58):
US code in your backpack or elsethey'd be like a marine humping it up
the mountain or whatever. Get goodluck, right, So all right,
so that's uh, that's rico.Uh So let's get back to the episode.
So, uh, when we whenwe leave Ava and uh and and
Raylan and Vasquez and Rachel, weget Boyd and the boys and they're they're

(41:22):
discussing a plan to break into thevault they've identified are they uh, they've
identified that Hey, there's uh theyneed to get into pizza portal because they
think that's where the money is.Uh. Ava correctly identified that, uh
that it used to be a bankat the end of the last episode,
and that that they think that they'repretty sure that the money's hidden in the

(41:43):
vault in the basement and that bankand that former bank building, and they
need to go get some recon Theyneed to uh to check it out and
see what's going on. But whilethey're they're discussing that, they get a
visit from ty Walker and he's gota message for that and it is to
abandon their efforts. And I havea little clip of that when you robbed

(42:05):
that bank other day. That wasa solid piece of tradecraft. But I
don't come to blow your skirts up. What geniuses y'all are. My point
is, somewhere along the way yougot the idea you were taking money from
that sad sack Calhoun, which franklywouldn't bother me a bit. But that's
not the actual fact. As ithappens, you robbed the man I work

(42:29):
for. And while my employer isfair and patient on the whole, he's
no weak sister, nor a manto be trifled with. Say say,
he functions at a different level thanmaybe you're used to, skippy, We're
used to a whole lot around here. Hal, I'm just a weather vane,
mister Crowder. I don't make thewind blow. I'm saying you find

(42:52):
a way to counsel patience, desistfrom coming after what doesn't belong to you,
and everybody wins town on in state. Now that being said, you
insist upon the track thus far setupon, there will be consequences you done,

(43:12):
dawn Son. You let talk asmuch as I do. Well,
mister what was your name? Walker? Mister Walker? Or maybe I did
the things you think I did,or maybe I didn't. Either way,
I don't give a shit about youor the fellow you work for. How

(43:34):
many men have come through that door, ring and similar bell. Most of
those men are dead now one wayor another. Well, I certainly got
notice how to end up like allthose other men. As I said,
I, you're just a weather vane. I heard you now, you come
here, said what you needed tosay, and interrupted my repast in the
process. Now, if I couldn'tfinish my hamburger in peace, I'm damn

(43:58):
sure gonna finish my French. Isthat way? Carl? You best get
to welcome mister Walker, you andyour beard for your hospitality. I hope
you boys enjoy the rest of yourday. So that's uh, you know,
Walker giving them a warning and Boydkicking him out unceremoniously because he's unhappy

(44:23):
after his bacchanal the evening before.And that's, of course our our word
of the week. I was goingto use repast, but but I liked
bacchanal so much better. You useyour tongue, partier and a twenty dollars
or Bachanal is an occasion of wildand drunken revelry, which is absolutely what
he and Eva engaged in the nightbefore. It's named after Bacchus, the

(44:45):
god of wine and giver of ecstasy. So not not actual ecstasy tablets,
but the feeling of ecstasy. That'sthat got his molly. That's the that's
the one you're thinking. So soyeah, BOYD kicks him out, doesn't

(45:07):
even ask who he works for,Uh, just tells him that that he's
not interested in who he works for, is not interested in talking to him.
They make a little walk walker punand then they kick him out of
the bar. Before they do that, though, he orders some Buffalo Trace
bourbon. Damn woman, you onlyshoot people when they're eating supper. And
I looked up Buffalo Trace. SoBuffalo Trace is one of the more affordable

(45:30):
brands of Kentucky bourbon, and productionruns. It only costs about thirty five
dollars a bottle that I could find, So it's, uh it's pretty affordable,
uh bourbon, given given how crazyexpensive some of these bourbons have been
that we've looked into. But uh, yeah, so that's Buffalo Trace.
It is a real bourbon, andit's Kentucky bourbon, and uh it's relatively

(45:55):
inexpensive. So see, so Raylanand Rachel are in the car. They're
going out to visit the explosives guyat the mind that's Luther Kent, who
we talked about in our Guest Starsegment, and they find some discrepancies in
the paperwork to suggest that maybe he'sbeen selling explosive to Boyd, or someone

(46:16):
has been selling explosives to Boyd andLuther's been covering it up. We also
find out Luther says, well,there's there's two things we find out here.
First, Luther and Raylan are thesame age, and they go through
some pretty ridiculous contortions to make itclear that to explain why they're the same

(46:37):
age but looks so much different,Like Luther's lived a much harder life than
Raylan has. Apparently so because helooks about fifteen years older than Raylan does.
And and there's a moment where Raylansays, oh, I assumed that
your son would be about the sameage as my daughter, and it turns
out he's not. He's in histwenties. I just got a late start.

(47:00):
So there's there's that element of ittoo. But we find out boys
are swimming, Yeah, exactly right, Just ask Alpaccino eighty three, Yeah,
he's a bag of bones at thispoint, right. Oh man,
he looks he looks bad like helooks I mean, he looks. I

(47:20):
guess he looks okay for eighty three, but holy cow. Yeah. And
and the girl he had a babywith, I guess is like twenty eight
or something, and she's, uh, she's got a baby with uh some
other actor or a rock star orsomething like, she's got a whole collection
of celebrity babies. Oh so sheI wonder, you know, like she's

(47:45):
get the child support from, youknow, like the laundry list of a
listers. Oh yeah, I meanthat's that's sort of the deal, right
is you have to uh, youhave to you gotta secure the bag,
You've gotta you've gotta make sure you'retaken care of. And the only way
you can do that for sure ishave that kid. Yeah, because you
know that kid's not going to beleft out of the estate. And even

(48:07):
if it is, the state's stillgonna have to pay child support until like
kid's eighteen. So it's crazy.But so Raylan notices that there's something up
with Luther, and he's not exactlysure what's up with Luther, but he
notices is something up with Luther.So they're going to go on a little
bit of a fishing expedition. Well, they're on that, Rachel gets a
call that Ava's at the portal casingthe place, and so we see that,

(48:30):
Oh did I mention that Raylan waspretending to get drunk. I did
not mention that. So we findout from from Luther that Raylan was a
big moonshine guy back in the dayand he would drink everybody else under the
table. And Luther says something effective, I can never figure out how that

(48:50):
how that was the case, AndRaylan explains that he would pour most of
it into the bushes when they weren'tlooking. So Raylan was uh fooling,
fooling them to get along with them, essentially, and to show how big
of a drinker and how big ofa man he was, but pouring the
liquor into the bushes, uh,to kind of stay soberish because he never

(49:14):
really had a taste for moonshinys.Well, I think it's funny that,
yeah, he's the guy he's like, oh, like the realization that maybe
if he had done that, maybehe would be like, uh, you
know, he wouldn't look his age. Oh yeah, it's funny. I
didn't think about it that way.It just like I thought about it as
Oh yeah, man, he fooledme. I wonder why he did that.

(49:36):
But yeah, you're right, like, oh, maybe if I hadn't
hit the bottle quite so hard,I wouldn't look like I'm seventy five in
my forties. Yeah, but uh, yeah, that's funny. So so
while they're while they're on their wayaway from the mine heading back to the
office, I guess, uh Rachelgets a call saying that Ava has just

(50:00):
walked into the portal and uh,you know, the marshals know about the
portal because they had the deeds uhfor a moment there from from uh Ava's
uh capture of Boyd's documents and uhand of course Tim and Raylan have been

(50:22):
there a couple of times now tovisit Walker in the gang, and Raylan
remembers that it used to be abank. But Ava's there doing a little
recon trying to find out if shecan find where the vault is and see
if it's guarded. What's going on, So she's putting those seventh grade Brigadoon
acting skills to work, uh,spilling, spilling on her crocheted halter top.

(50:46):
Uh again by the way, justyou know, kind of pointing out
here. Uh. You know,we talked a little bit about the mail
gaze and in this season, andand that's sort of and how it's been
amplified a little bit. Ava walkingaround in a crocheted halter top is is
definitely not something we would have seenbefore season six. I don't think that's

(51:07):
a little kind of out of herwardrobe character. I think, well,
and you look at her, she'sbeen doing the prison workout because her arms
are amazing, right, yeah's absolutelyripped. She looks fantastic. Of course,
I'm not suggesting that she doesn't.I'm just saying so. Yeah.

(51:28):
So she she spills on her crochettop and goes to look for the bathroom.
Nobody cares, of course, butbut she goes down in the basement
and sees the vault and takes somephotos, and luckily for her, choo
Choo, whose real name is Mondo, is the one who stumbles across her

(51:49):
first, and not Walker or oneof the other gangsters. So she forts
with choo Choo and tries to askhim some questions about the vault. He's
not really interesting did in answering anyquestions, but he is interested in Ava,
so he talks to her a bitand then ty Walker shows up and
kicks her out, and she leavesthe bar and he gives her or she

(52:14):
gives choo Chow her maiden name,Eva Randolph, as she's driving away when
he's asking for a number, andwhen Boyd's reviewing those photos, there's a
couple of a couple of cool momentshere. The first is that you know,
Carl is looking at the photos andlike, you guys don't know how
to look at photos. Look,there's three beds, so you know,

(52:36):
blah blah blah, there's at leastthis many guys. And Boyd goes,
no, no, there's five guys, because there's two bed rolls also rolled
up and they're sleeping in shifts.And so like Carl being the know it
all, it just gets trumped byBoyd, who really actually knows what he's
doing. And then and then theygo three beds for five guys. Are

(52:58):
they into anything? Are they toosomething untoward? That's what Earl says.
I do love that his immediate thoughtis that, oh, these guys are
engaging in some sort of gay escapadesdown there in that basement, and that's
the worst possible thing that could happen, something indicative that he would be gay

(53:21):
exactly right, in addition to maybesort of being gay. He is Boyd's
Emulex supplier, we find out,and he he threatens to quit because he's
like, hey, wait, thiswas supposed to be a bank robbery,
not a you know, five militarizeddudes vault robbery. I'm I'm I'm not

(53:45):
sure this is what i signed upfor, but they convince him to stay.
Carl Carl is his brother. Rolewe find out Earl is Carl's little
brother, and he manages to convincehim to stay. So so Earl goes
off to Boyd, finds the safein a book and realizes that he's going

(54:06):
to need a lot more explosives tobe able to blow that safe open,
and so he tells Earle, I'mgonna need a lot more emulax. So
Earl goes off to get him somemore emulas, and we find Raylan.
He's looking for Tyler, and sois Earl because Tyler is Luther's son and
he's Earl's hook up for Emulax.So they both go to visit at the

(54:30):
exact same time, and I havea little clip of that after Raylan walks
in and finds Earle there with Tyler. I come on now, talk business
man needs your expert hand up tomind. No, I can't do it,
bro I told you it's a onetime deal. ETFs taught with the
books and it could get daddy introuble. Need to worry less about your
daddy and a little more about yourdebt to me. Boyd needs more boom

(54:52):
to ship load up. The goodnews is you deliver. We're gonna take
care of you and your daddy.Perfect and y'all looking to get shot lord,
I hope not was one of yougonna shoot us. You better get
your asses off the premises as maybeI'll pop you for trespassers. Don't do
that, Tyler to break your daddy'sheart any which way this story ends bad
enough. He's gotta cover you stealinghis emuls and for this he'll jackass Waffle.

(55:14):
No list, Hey badger, nobadge, you got a right come
here talking shit? Actually we gotall that right and morning. Yeah,
well, how about you come outfrom behind that pussy badge and I'll show
you such a ass down. Oh, we still get a problem where you
want to reconsider your earlier position.You don't know me, but I know

(55:40):
your pop since we was younger,and you told me he had a son.
I confess I thought he meant justa tad like my own kid.
I guess I started later in life, but that's on me. Anyways,
he's worried about the tyler, andI suppose I am too. I find
you've been in charge of some shadybook keeping at the mind such that the
at if I might want to starta whole circus. Though before I saw

(56:01):
you got company, I was goingto take you back to Lecington have a
little chat, see if I couldhelp you get in front of this thing.
Yeah, well I got cut right. So here's what I'm thinking.
Why don't you two finish whatever itis you got cooked up and say the

(56:21):
second you stick clear of this numbminutes, won't you give me a call
and we'll have that chat. Callthat number anytime. Okay, then I'll
be good. Now, So Raylan'sgoing to give them enough rope to hang
themselves and hopefully Boyd along with them. Right. The idea here is let's

(56:42):
get Boyd receiving stolen explosives. That'sthe that's the objective, because if you
can get Boyd receiving stolen explosives,you can draw a tangible connection to the
attempt to rob the vault, whichgets him on a reco predicate. And
now you've got him. So sothat's the idea. He sets them free,
sets them loose to go and dolikewise, and Earl says he got

(57:08):
a little bit of a different plan. And we find out that they're just
going to go ahead and rob themind instead of attempt to, you know,
obfuscate the theft of the explosives.And they get masks and guns and
go to attempt to rob the mind, and of course they stumble directly across

(57:32):
Raylan and Rachel, who are literallywait lying in wait for them. They
don't even see them because they can'tsee out of their masks, and they
take them into custody. They havea conversation with with Luther. Luther's there
gets them to surrender. Raylan threatensto shoot Earl's dick off, and then

(57:53):
eventually Luther, being the moron thathe is, says that he took the
Emulex in order to protect his son, and that kind of frustrates all of
Raylan's plans because now he can't tiethem to Boyd. He can't try and
flip Earl to testify against Boyd.There's all sorts of negative repercussions that come

(58:19):
from this. I did wonder whenI was watching this scene, and I
want to get your thoughts on this, why didn't Raylan let them rob the
mine h and then take the explosivesto Boyd And that would have been when
it would have been the right timeto bust them. That's a good question.
I I guess maybe it was itwas for the kid. Oh,

(58:46):
I don't know, you know,yeah, maybe it was for the kid.
I guess if you if you canprotect Tyler by not letting him,
I mean, he's gonna go awayanyway. But I don't know. Maybe
I don't know. Maybe maybe it'sbecause they had out. Maybe that's,
you know, there's like you haveto intervene at that point. You can't
let him not you can't not interveneif they're gonna do an armed a violent

(59:07):
crime, like if they're gonna dolike a like a you know, obfuscation
or fraud crime where they're gonna falsifythe books. Maybe you let it happen.
But if they're gonna, you know, potentially rob or murder Luther,
you've got you've got to intervene.I don't know. I mean, at
the very least they were gonna rufhim up. I think they did.
They did say that in the truck, right, They talked about that specifically

(59:30):
about how well we have to roughhim up because if we don't, they're
he's not going to uh be crediblethat he was robbed, much like Shelby
in uh in season two. That'sright, yeah, m all right.
So while that's all happening, Boydgets abducted. So Boyd's at the bar,

(59:52):
there's nobody else there. He getstaking captives, zip tig duct taped,
uh, masked up. They takeinto a barn. They they they
invoke invoked Chinatown with they've got theseclippers. There's the scene in Chinatown,
of course where they slice the guy'snose and uh, that's that's what they're

(01:00:12):
referring to. But they they cuthim loose and tell him that it was
a warning before they release him,and also mentioned Ava because they know who
Ava was and that they they saysomething about it. Oh, if you
hadn't you thought given us a falsename was gonna stop us. You're crazy.
So we now know that potentially Ava'sin trouble, and we get a

(01:00:37):
clip of Ava answering her door tofind Avery. Markham and ty Walker there,
uh, wanting to have a chatwith Ava. So let's see.
Oh, there's a there's a conversation. I thought this was an interesting conversation
between between Raylan and Luther. Theytalk about parenthood and and Raylan explains how

(01:01:01):
futile. Uh, Luther's gesture is, right, his little act of no
blessed believe. She says, youknow how futile it is and uh,
and Luther says, hey, look, you know you've got a kid that's
uh, that's barely a reality toyou right now. But you'd still do
anything for her and that doesn't changewhen they get older. And uh.

(01:01:23):
It's an interesting sort of foreshadowing toa show that doesn't exist yet. I
thought, so, you know we'vegot because we know we've got Will as
a as a supporting character in CityPrimeval, So there maybe a couple of
points where we're going to flash backto this conversation that Raylan and Luther have
and and remember it interestingly. Soyeah, yeah, that's a good point.

(01:01:47):
But all right, so we've gotAva and Uh and Markham at the
table at the dinner table and they'rehaving a conversation when Boyd comes in,
and boy it is not pleased tosee them in the house. But he's
also very confused because he doesn't knowwho Avery Markham is, or he doesn't

(01:02:08):
know who the person is who's sittingat the dinner table until he identifies himself
as Avery Markham, and we havea clip of that. I hasked to
meet you, sir, my nameis boy Crowder. Will you admit well,
in that case, I'm afraid youhave me at a disadvantage. My
name's Every Markham. Because I can'tblame you for not remembering last time I

(01:02:34):
saw you. We're no bigger thana minute nine ten years old, peacocking
around here, daddy like you thoughtyou'd already a full grown bad man.
I recognize you now, mister Markham, at being sin I still don't recall
being bounced on you one knee.Nevertheless, it seems that I owe you

(01:03:00):
an apology, like I said,I can't blame me for not remember it.
No, sir, the apology thatI owe is for my craving attempt
to pell for that which rightfully belongsto you. As defense, I offer
only my ignorance, meaning you thoughtyou were stealing from Calhoun, Yes,

(01:03:24):
sir, I did, And nowyou know the prisent question belongs to me
that I do, and any uhplan that I had for my next attempt
should be considered abandoned as foolhardy,not to say unworthy. I hope you'll

(01:03:47):
understand when I say I don't wantto see either of you at the portal
again. Next time you want toslash order in, have it here in
thirty minutes or it's free. Isee you in my place of business again,
I'll kill you. Come to it. I guess you ain't big now,

(01:04:13):
grown the deal? He's playing pretin. I want to know why Markham
felt the need to say that lastpart. Right, Yeah, it's like
it just like sticking a finger inhis eyes. He's leaving or something.
You've already made your point. He'sgot to thrown himself at your feet and
ask for forgiveness. And now you'regonna tell him that you're still just to

(01:04:35):
pretend gangster, like you don't havethe balls to rob me. That's not
not you know, if you knowwhat Boyd Crowder is, he's not going
to take that. Well yeah,it's uh, well, you know,
maybe it's just to establish you knowwhat kind of guy Markham is. I
guess, yeah, I guess so. I mean there's so much menace in

(01:04:57):
what Markham says, but he's stillsort of this Joe the old guy.
He says like half of it witha smile sort of guy, and then
just to be so petty at theend like that is was was really surprising
to me. It took me backa little bit. Yeah, but it's
interesting seeing Boyd a really just throwinghimself at his mercy really, you know,

(01:05:19):
like just oh, I apologize,you know, like profusely basically.
Yeah. Well, you get thismoment where he's shaking his hand and he
introduces himself as Avery Markham, andyou get this, I mean again,
Walton Goggins delivering a masterclass in acting. Here. You get this flash of
recognition in Boyd's eyes that's that's sortof accompanied by panic right at the same

(01:05:41):
time, like, oh holy shit, this guy he's a legend, and
yeah, he's like, what amI going to do? How do I
get out of this situation? ButBoyd speaks so deliberately and and just barely
above a whisper, and so manyscenes, and I've always kind of thought
like, sort of Boyd's speaking styleis to add an extra syllable into almost

(01:06:06):
every word that doesn't have it,just because of the way he speaks so
deliberately. But he does add anextra symbol syllable into Avery. He calls
him Avery mark And instead of AveryMarkham, which which I thought is is
that I think he's the only onewho does it in the show. And

(01:06:27):
we hear that when uh in thenext scene when when he has a conversation
with Wynn and Catherine, and sowhen and Catherine are are or Win is
tanning in his suite, when whenBoyd calls and says, hey, I
need a meeting, and by theway, get me a get me a
room at the hotel because for foravon, I were going to spend the

(01:06:50):
night, and Win thinks Boyd mightbe coming to show it down. Uh,
And so he tells Mikey, makesure you take a cigarette's which is
a little call back to last seasonand the unfortunate demise of one picker.
But Boyd gets there and he isangry with Katherine because she didn't tell him

(01:07:15):
that they were stealing from every Markhamand Katherine explains why sort of. It's
basically that the answer is that shedidn't tell him because she didn't want to
tell him. But when is absolutelyfantastic. You hear him a little bit
towards the end of this clip thatI'm about to play, But during the

(01:07:38):
conversation between Boyd and Katherine, weget a couple of cuts away to Win's
reaction. He's sitting there in abathrobe, having just come out of the
tanning bed, drinking ice water outof a straw, and just looking like
he's eating popcorn on the sidelines watchingthis conversation take place. It's such a

(01:08:01):
great sort of reaction from Win.I like what he like. I think
he's wearing like a women's underwear orstuff like that while he's in the tanning
bed. He's wearing like it's likea it's like one of those paper g
strings, yeah, that you wearwhen you go to like the tanning booth
or or to the spray tan placethey give you that he really wants that

(01:08:28):
all over glow. Yeah. Yeah, I mean there's definitely we've seen a
lot of allusions to the fact thatWin might be gay, right, I
don't think, having watched all sixseasons of this show, I don't think
there's any question that Win is gay. Do you I think that there goes

(01:08:55):
I was gonna say, I thinkthat they're like, I mean, he's
very well groomed, you know.I mean, there's just signs so women's
tennis, his close relationship with Mikey. Yeah. So yeah, I don't
think there's any questions. I don't. I don't think there's any question about
it. I do like that it'snot I do like that they very deliberately

(01:09:17):
didn't make it a storyline. Theydidn't make it overt, but they sort
of implied it. And and Iwonder, I wonder what the reaction to
that is and organized crime circles likeI feel like Quarrels kind of was a
little bit saw a little bit ofa kindred spirit and when in that regard,

(01:09:39):
and that's maybe why he got alongwith him so well during the season
when when Quarrels was around. Ye. But but they haven't. They haven't
made it a thing. But they'vealso been very deliberate about not showing him
with women ever, Like he'd neverhas had a girlfriend, he's never had
a prostitute, and his in hisWinnebago while when Alan shows up or anything

(01:10:00):
like that, Right, we've seenthat with Calhoun. We saw that with
what's his name, the Kentucky Uh, the guy who was in the Dixie
Mafia and tried to get out.I can't remember, but he had a
great accent. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We even sat with the
judge the hammer Yeah, yeah,exactly, the woman in his car.
Yeah. So so yeah, we'veseen and even he has you know,

(01:10:21):
he has the speedo under his robeand the whole thing. And so he's
like, oh, wait a minute, is he gay? Is he's not?
No, he's not. He's he'sa butt. But yeah, I'm
convinced that when when is gay andit doesn't matter. I just think it's
an interesting sort of character feature fora guy who's an organized crime in the

(01:10:42):
South right to be to be agay man. Well, remember they were,
they had that whole thing with Andwe've talked this more than a couple
of times in the Sopranos, whereis Vito uh Vito sataphor Vito spataphoria.
Yeah, yeah, and he youknow, but they made did a big
plot plot line. Yeah, theywell they did the whole Johnny Cakes diversion

(01:11:03):
in season six where he was youknow, like two or three episodes of
that. So yeah, yeah,so I don't know. So yeah,
I mean it's an interesting aspect,and who knows, maybe he has to
hide it a little bit, youknow, like at least I'm talking about
whin Yeah, you know, keepingon the down low because of you know,
where he is and what he probablydid. I think he would have

(01:11:27):
to write again. I think it'sone of those things where they they're forgiving
about it as long as they don'tknow about it. It's sort of like
the nineties in the military, right, don't ask, don't tell, We're
not gonna you're not gonna tell us. We're not gonna ask, but don't
be overt about it. It's kindof the policy, it feels like,
and I think that's the policy thatTony was advocating for in the Sopranos.

(01:11:51):
What oh, yeah, you knowwhat. I think you're right, because
but eventually it got you know thingscame to a head, right Phil.
Yeah? Yeah. Also Phil wasalways the problem. So we have a
clip of that conversation with Catherine,and this will round out our eclipse for
the episode. So let's listen tothat. I found them money might find

(01:12:15):
it a whole lot sooner. You'vebeen straight with me from the chump.
You're a drink, boyd. Iwant to know why you didn't tell me
we were robbing Avery Markham. Well, drink, I'm rehydrating. I was
worried if I tell you you mightnot take the job because of Markham's reputation
or because he used to be yourhusband's partner. He was much more than

(01:12:35):
that. Mused to have like astory, it had its moments well as
a man with a king regard forhistory. I know I'm gonna be more
than happy to hear it. Butright now, Catherine, I find myself
more concernment to president, meaning whatis your relationship with him? Now?
No offense, boyd, But ifI really wanted to set you up,

(01:12:57):
I'm sure I could find an easierway. That ain't what I asked.
I'm sleeping with him. That's howI knew he was moving back into Kentucky.
And that's how I knew to putyou onto his realtor. H Ah,

(01:13:20):
woman, how do you see thisplaying out in your mind? You
think he's not gonna put it togetherthat you were in on ripping him off.
Every markhams out of man to sitstill while someone takes what's his let
them go live the good life somewhereon his dime. So you're out right,
that's what you're saying. I mean, let's just set aside all this

(01:13:42):
poetic down home. He'll billy bullshitbottom line. As you're backing down,
Oh, I ain't backing down.I'm gonna rob him and then I'm won't
stick a bullet in your boyfriend's head. You know what, Boyd? From
the moment I met you, Ijust knew you were the man in my
dreams. Yeah, so Boyd's gonnacontinue rob Avery Markham and then he's going

(01:14:06):
to kill him, and seemingly that'sexactly what Catherine wants. And we're not
sure exactly why at this point,but but what do we do find out
why she might want might want Averydead? So yeah, it's a great
you know, because there's so muchsaid here that's hinted at and it just

(01:14:28):
draws you into the story as faras like, Okay, so what exactly
because we still really don't know thatmuch about missus Hale or miss Hale.
We do not we do not know, and we don't know why she might
want Avery Markham dead. We don'tknow why she wants to steal his money
when she could just you know,have a relationship with him and have the
access to the money. Right.It's uh, it's interesting. There's a

(01:14:51):
lot of questions and not a wholelot of answers coming out of this,
and Boyd is as perplexed as anybody. I think, oh, yeah,
completely, he doesn't you know,he like he's like us. We're still
trying to piece together exactly what's goingon here because you know, he got
thrown for a loop. Definitely right, Yeah, I'm sleeping with him and

(01:15:14):
totally caught off guard. He doesn'tunderstand what her endgame is, how she's
going to extricate herself from this situation. I think he's maybe starting to put
the pieces to the puzzle together whenshe says that, when she says,
you're the man of my dreams,like okay, wait a minute, Okay,
she wants me to kill him.Why would she want me to kill
him? He still doesn't figure thatpart out yet, but he goes back
and finds Ava in bed. She'sall bundled up. Asks she asked him

(01:15:40):
how much money they're talking about howhe plans to get it. He gets
a little frustrated and says, whydo you need to know the details of
my operation? It doesn't seem likeyou're the same person who went to jail.
And she pulls back the covers andsaid, and she's nude underneath with
a fan. I mean, look, her back is so muscular and rip.

(01:16:01):
It's it's really amazing you you're talkingabout the prison body. She's definitely
got the prison body going on underthose covers. And she says she wants
to remind him of who she is, and he he heads in there,
uh, you know, right away, So of course, because of course
he does. Well, yeah,exactly, it's an open invitation that no

(01:16:23):
one's going to turn down. Sothere's a great moment in that in that
scene though, where he takes hisshirt off, or his overshirt off,
and he's got his tank top onunderneath, and he's got his Nazi tattoo
there and it's I love when theyhighlight the swastika or the Nazi iconography with
Boyd because it's an important reminder thatdespite his charm, despite how genteel he

(01:16:46):
is, despite how much of ananti hero he has been up until this
point, he's still a Nazi andthat's not good. He's a bad guy,
right, And we shouldn't be rootingfor Boyd Crowder unless you're a Nazi.
Unless you're a Nazi. Yeah,if you're rooting for Boyd Crowder,
that makes you a Nazi. That'swhat our society is today. Right.

(01:17:12):
Oh yeah, you're either for Hitleror against Hitswer. Right all right,
Well that's uh. That gets usthrough the episodes. So let's get to
our final segment. I was tellingmy friends this morning yesterday, coming in,
we don't get out of town intwenty four hours. I'm gonna shoot
you one site. Are you goingto shoot him? I'll get for you

(01:17:33):
before you even clear your weapons andtake my chances with the other tea get
the chance help pull my side.Are less I'm gonna shoot to kill?
Are you gonna shoot him? ToRaylan? And you know this episode actually
as it really even pulled his gun. I think we're like, I forgot
what the episode cow it is.He did pull his gun. He did

(01:17:56):
pull his gun because when when andEarl were going to rob the mind,
they had their guns out. Becausethey had their guns out, So that's
right, that's right. But hehasn't shot anybody, has not pulled the
trigger. Yeah, yeah, Sothis episode is just pretty much putting pieces
together as far as like you know, like we're moving the story and it's

(01:18:17):
interesting. But yeah, there hasn'tbeen not really that much gun play.
There was no definitely nobody died,right, he got killed, nobody killed.
Not a ton of crime even,right, there's there's been, I
mean, besides the abduction of Boyd. But but yeah, yeah, I
mean there's no I mean, there'sthe threats, there's the there's the confrontation,

(01:18:39):
the dialogue, but there's no nobody'sshooting anybody. A lot of a
lot of a lot of set upin the last couple episodes, right,
we gotta introduce a lot of newcharacters, we gotta figure out what their
motivations are. Well, well,we'll start to get into the action here
coming up, coming up next weekfor sure, because because things start to
accelerate pretty rapidly. And so withthat said, a little bit of a

(01:19:04):
production note here, this will bethis episode will not air until I think
sometime in September, because we aregoing to be covering Justified City Primeval for
eight weeks starting July nineteenth, andwe already have the first two episodes queued

(01:19:30):
up to go out, So sothat's going to happen on July three and
July tenth, and then this onewill be released sometime in September. The
next episode will be two weeks afterthat, and then we'll be back on
our normal production schedule every two weeksuntil we run out season six. So
in the meantime, please don't forgetto subscribe, rate, and review.

(01:19:51):
We say it in that order becausethat's the easiest way to do things.
Subscribe is where you hit that littlebutton in your podcast app, whatever app
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get new episodes when they're released,including new episodes of Justified City Prime Evil
coming soon. Rate is where yougive us a rating of one to five

(01:20:12):
stars in that application, hopefully alwaysfive stars. And review is where you
give us we take the time towrite us a written review. We do
appreciate all of our subscribers, ourraiders, reviewers. Thank you. If
you haven't already, please take thetime write us a written review, give
us five stars. It really doeshelp the show. We really do appreciate
it. Don't forget to check usout on the socials at Groundless pod or

(01:20:34):
at Groundless Podcast. You can emailus Groundless Podcast at gmail dot com with
your questions, complaints, corrections,love troubles. We do love getting the
love trouble letters, so please don'tplease don't not send those. We enjoy
enjoy those those letters very much,so send those in. We've got plenty
of plenty of relationship troubles coming upbetween Boyd and Ava and Raylan and Winona

(01:21:00):
this season, so plenty of opportunityto talk about your relationship troubles in those
contexts. And uh, let's seetell a friend or a family member about
the show. We really do appreciatethat too. But check out Groundless City
Prime EVA when it comes out.You'll be able to get it in the
same feed here and and thank youfor listening.