S08E02 - The OC Season 1 - Part 2 - Groundless (A Justified Podcast)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Here right, come right back where it's got it from
my powers. My flowers bloom in the spring each morning,
not dawning everything. This is Groundless a The OC Rewatch podcasts.
This is a podcast where we watch every episode of

(00:23):
the OC and then come on here and talk about it.
I'm Chris. Thatman is Randy, and we're back again, back
again for the second episode of three. Uh for season
one of the OC. The OC a show about destroying
your family by letting a criminal live in your poolhouse.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
But didn't wasn't he really the savior of that family?

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Well he may have been. You know, it's funny. I've
been watching. I've been watching season two in preparation to
record our our episodes. They just finished it up yesterday,
and uh, it really is striking sort of the the
emotional ground have a toss that comes along with Kirsten
going to rehab and and Ryan sort of helping to
convince her to go and everything. It's like, oh, wait,

(01:08):
you know he really is part of this family now.
So yeah, yeah, let's see, We've got a few other
relationships we've got to talk about, including one of the
main relationships we've got. We've got Ryan and Teresa and
Eddie and Marissa. So right when Ryan and Marissa kind

(01:29):
of get into a groove and start seeing each other seriously,
Teresa shows up and what she shows up at, I
don't remember what the event. They have so many parties,
like they have a party like every third episode, and
and there's always a fight at the party. And if
it's at the Cohen's house, you're gonna end up in
the pool. We see Haley and Haley and Julie end

(01:53):
up in the pool at her bachelorette party. Because that's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Somebody's get Ryan's punching somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
That's right, that's somebody. Somebody's getting punched. Absolutely, Yeah, Jimmy Cooper,
I wrote Jimmy Cooper gets punched at Katilly because he
stole everybody's money. And I remember I wrote down because
Julie had to convince him to go to Katillion. Right,
He's laying on the couch, he's watching ESPN Classic. He's

(02:19):
just vibing like I'm not gonna go because I don't
want to confront my neighbors who have stolen all their money.
And Julie's like, no, you have to go to Katillion.
You need to get you need to go, you have
to go. She basically nags him to going, and then
he shows up and gets punched out and ruins Katillion.
And I'm like, just think how nice Cotillion would have
been if she had just let him stay home and
watch ESPN Classic Julie Cooper ruins everything.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
That was one of the themes that I had noted,
is that like it like not even I think it
was like every episode there was like some big blowout
or whatever accidents, whether it's the Casino Night yeah, or
the snow Sea or whatever, you know, just like.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
I do love the Casino Night. The Casino Night has
one of I think the best sort of sequences in
the first season where they're playing the music and they're
going around to all the different groups oh yeah people,
and you see Ryan's mom getting shit faced, and Sandy
finding out about the loan, and Marissa and Luke and
then Marissa and Ryan, and then Luke and Ryan and

(03:23):
Seth and Summer and Kirsten seeing Ryan's mom boozing it up.
It's great, and they put it all together in like
a ninety second piece. It's really really well executed, and.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
The music's like going off in the background. It's like,
it's a very famous song. I think is like an
old tiny song, the horns blurring and stuff.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, I can't remember what the song is, but it's
it's very very well done. We didn't, you know. One
of the things we haven't talked about a lot on
this show is the music, and the music is such
a key sort of part of the show. Look, the
reason we don't talk about the music is because it's
really hard to talk about music when you can't play
the music. And we can't play the music, so it's

(04:04):
it's really hard to talk about it. If you're interested
in that, there's probably podcasts that that do have music rights,
or or at least you know, you can read the book.
The book talks a lot about the music director and
what they were up to, and why they picked the
soundtrack that they picked, and how they got the bands
to participate, and their relationships with the labels and all
that stuff. It's all very very interesting stuff. But ultimately,

(04:27):
if you can't play the music, it makes it Even
Even listening to the book, I was kind of like, Oh,
if I can't hear the music, this makes it a
lot less interesting for me. I'm just going to go
listen to all these things that I've done by the
Killers again.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Or Rooney or Rooney.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
So yeah, so let's talk a little bit about So.
So Ryan and Marissa just kind of get into their groove.
Teresa shows up because she's working at whatever there event
is and I can't remember what the event was, but
she's working for the catering company that she works for
as a cocktail waitress or order or whatever. Yeah, exactly,

(05:14):
and she's now back, and then they they're friends for
a while, and then I don't remember what what happens
because Eddie's Eddie's there, Eddie's involved. She was essentially, you know,
sort of wondering do I leave Eddie? Do I stay
with Eddie? He proposed to her, and she kind of

(05:36):
ran away rather than giving him an answer. And he
basically has the most adult reaction to this than any
other human on the show has had to a minor offense,
Like he's very very adult about it initially, and then
he goes full cock with with Teresa and Ryan making

(05:58):
out with each other with the lineup while he's on
the phone, and it's like, oh, well, now, not all
all of a sudden, now, he's not so mature about it.
And they're hanging out in the school parking lot in
her car, like she's got this convertible and they're in
the school parking lot looking like two full grown adults
at a high school, just hanging out. And yeah, it's

(06:22):
it's interesting. And and so they bang with the window open,
and Eddie sees what's going on, and and and then
Eddie comes in and attacks Ryan and ruins another party,
and and Teresa bails after that, after the fight. After

(06:44):
after Eddie comes in and beats up Ryan or hits Ryan,
gets in a fight with Ryan, she bails because apparently
she was just looking for the alpha dog. And Eddie
is like, here, I am see at home baby.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah, but well, do you think that there was like
because I think, if I remember correct, I think she
does mentioned like, you know, like he would hit her.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Is that right?

Speaker 1 (07:08):
She hit him on or he hit her once supposedly
or something like that, like it it happened once and
it was an accident and he was sorry about it
and blah blah blah. And that was on the first visit,
and then on the second visit, after he hits her again,
that's where she calls Sandy and is like, hey, I
might need your help here. Don't tell Ryan, And everybody

(07:30):
deliberately avoids telling Ryan because Ryan's a dangerous psychopath. And
if you tell Ryan, he's going to drive to Chino
and probably kill Eddie. You have to go to jail.
So everybody dances around it because they don't want, you know,
they don't want Ryan to get himself in trouble. We
can't let him know because if he knows that, he's
going to go crazy, and he does, right, But luckily
it's like a two hour drive from from Newport to Chino. Yeah,

(07:55):
so you so he has time to cool off on
the way. I did think that was funny, like all
of like, I'm like, oh, okay, sure, that makes perfect
sense that that Teresa is going to commute from fucking
Chino to Newport for a for a minimum wage job
as a catering server. That makes total sense. He's going

(08:16):
to drive two hours each way for that?

Speaker 2 (08:18):
She did?

Speaker 3 (08:19):
I think she did say that she intentionally did take
that job because she knew it was in Newport.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
I think because yeah, she wanted to get away from
Eddie for a while. Edie, Yeah, no, you're absolutely right,
It's just it's it. It's very impractical, extremely silly suggest
that this high school girl, you know, probably an unreliable
automobile and everything else. So yeah, but but I did,

(08:49):
I did want to acknowledge that Eddie has this very
adult reaction initially when when Teresa goes to visit Ryan
and he's like, oh, yeah, you know, she was asking me,
you know, we're talking about you guys getting married and
this whole thing, and and Edie's like, okay, that's cool.
He's he takes it very very well. And then they
just rub it in his face with the phone call

(09:11):
it and the banging with the motel window open thing
is just brutal.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
That's just the whole timing thing too, you know, like
it's right place at or wrong place at the wrong time.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, And and so I noted here that on rewatch
you sort of start rooting for Teresa and Ryan, even
though Teresa's being a little bit manipulative because she feels
way better than Marissa at that point in the show.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Especially right, I wondered, like you had mentioned earlier, I
wonder if it was that because they were trying to
get like right Verisa out of the show, you know, like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
I think it was.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
I think there's a there's a little bit of that.
They're like, oh, we want to see. We don't know
necessarily where we want this relationship to go. The producers knew,
but the network didn't, Right, So the producers knew that, hey,
look our Lynchpin, our load star. The thing that the
entire show orbits around is this relationship between Ryan and Marissa,
And if we lose the relationship between Ryan and Marissa,

(10:08):
the show loses its center of gravity, and that's bad.
And then we saw in season three what happens right
when that when that show loses the center of gravity,
it gets bad. It becomes a bad TV show.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
So that was what the writers and the producers definitely
wanted to do. The network felt a little differently about it,
and they were not huge fans of Marissa, even after
she became incredibly popular. So but but yeah, So then
then Teresa comes back eventually again after after Ryan and

(10:45):
Marissa get back together. She comes back after Eddie hits
her again. And then eventually Ryan finds out and is
going to go and beat up Eddie and just sides
against it. And then it turns out that Teresa is
pregnant and she takes this pregnancy test. Turns out she's

(11:07):
gonna have this baby. She doesn't know if it's Eddies
or Ryan's. She's not sure. Yeah, Ryan doesn't know if
it's Eddies or Ryan. But Ryan, he do you think that?

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Ryan was like, oh, do you want me to use
a condom?

Speaker 1 (11:23):
You know?

Speaker 2 (11:23):
I was like, okay, yeah, Well.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
That's that's the difference right between the between the white
trash kids and the rich kids. The white trash kids
don't even consider it. Just that's Julie Cooper. Yeah, oh god,
and so yeah. So so it's like he might have

(11:47):
knocked her up. He might not have knocked her up.
Nobody knows for sure. But he has this weird sense
of duty and honor, and he feels bad because he
grew up without his dad and his mom abandoned him
and this whole thing, and and so he feels like
he has to do this. So ultimately, after she decides
to have the baby because she was going to get
an abortion, but then changes her mind at the last

(12:09):
minute tease, and so she changes her mind, desides out
of the baby, and asks Ryan to come back to
Chino with her, and and Ryan's like, Okay, I guess
I'm going back to Chino with you. You know. He's like,
I'm going to sacrifice my happiness and my new life
that I have because I, you know, stuck my deck
in the wrong girl one time and I ruined my life.

(12:33):
So I guess I'm gonna go work a construction job now.
And it's it's really interesting sort of how he makes
that decision and Sandy tries to talk him out of
it and tells him, hey, you know, you don't have
to do this right and and but doesn't really try
that hard to talk him out of it. It's it
feels weird, right, It feels very much like it would
be one of those things that Sandy would sort of
start to put his foot down about with him. But

(12:55):
especially given the uncertainty here, right that you don't know
if it's your baby, you don't know if it's Eddie's baby,
you don't know what she wants. She doesn't know what
she wants. She's seventeen or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I don't know,
but anyway, she she you know, eventually, what happens there
at the end of that is that Ryan and Marissa
have this tearful goodbye and and he drives back to

(13:20):
Chino with with Teresa and her convertible. And this is
this is the other issue I had with the show.
I think there's you know, Marissa drives after after the divorce,
Marissa starts driving a Jeep Cherokee before Caleb. Before Caleb
comes along, Marissa's driving a Jeep Cherokee and Teresa's driving

(13:43):
this convertible or whatever. And I think it's like these
are the much like the same way that like they're like, oh,
one hundred thousand dollars sounds like a good number for
a lot of money. They're like, oh, these are definitely
what car cars that poor people drive. Like, let's give
Marissa the brand new Jeep Cherokee. That's certainly something a
poor person which and oh, here's this convertible. You know,

(14:06):
it's it's obviously an older convertible, but it's still a
convertible and still a you know, relatively nice car. Oh,
and this is the one trees and drives and she's yeah,
because she's a poor Yeah, because and and Ryan has
to go work a construction job instead of going to
school to support their baby. That's how poor they are.
But she's still driving this convertible around.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
Well, that convertible was kind of trashed, right, it was
like really, uh, you know, for all we know that
that roof could have been because.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
It could just be there could be no roof. Yeah, all, yeah,
there's just no top. Yeah that could be. That's fair,
that's fair. But you know, I'm just remembering when I
me having a car with the headliner that was falling
down on my head disconnecting from the foam on top
of the car because they use the crappy adhesive that
doesn't hold up in the heat.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Right, what did you? Oh, do you have a station
wike it? Right?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
It was nineteen eighty two Ford Granada station wagon.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yes, yea Ford Granada.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Ford Granada. It was beige, quite something, quite something.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Did it have the seats that face backwards?

Speaker 3 (15:18):
No?

Speaker 1 (15:19):
So let me we think about how to say this
without giving away too much. So what would happen? But
you had the had the front seat, which was a
bench seat, and then you had the back seat which
was also a bench seat, and the behind the back
seat the bench seat, you just had flat area. It
was like four or five feet of flat cargo space

(15:43):
in the back of the station wagon, and it had
a hatchback on it, and so what you could do
is you could lay down the back seat. It would
lay down completely flat, and then you'd have like a
seven foot sort of cargo space in the back of
the station wagon. And when you are seventeen and you

(16:04):
drive that car and you have a girlfriend and you
live in a rural area, what you do is you
drive down like one of an old oil well or
gas well access road, and you park down there and
you put the back seat down, and you have got
already made bet and occasionally you get you get caught

(16:27):
by a park ranger in a state park parking lot
in the.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Winter, in the winter time.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
In the winter. Yeah, well look, I mean that's when
you go to the state park, right because in the winter,
you don't expect there to be visitors to the marina
at the state park because the water's frozen. And so
you go, you go park at the marina, and then
occasionally a park ranger comes up and knocks on your
window while you're in the middle of and flagrante delecto.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
As they say, coitas.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Coitus you mean coitus, h did.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
You call it DELECTI. Yes, that's pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, so it's uh yeah, so that was that was
fun that I did not get sighted. He uh he.
He knocks on the window and I, you know, I
I have literally no clothes on, none whatsoever. And neither
does my girlfriend. We neither one of us have any

(17:35):
clothes on all. And and I rolled down the window
about two inches and I'm like, yeah, what's up. He
goes get out of here. Now, I'm like, you got it.
I throw my shorts on and I start driving. I

(17:58):
don't even bother to put my clothes. I drive a
couple of miles down the road, get out of the
state park and pull over and put my clothes bed.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
And this was winter.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
This was winter. Oh yeah, this was like November, December,
January sometime in there. There was no snow on the ground,
but it was definitely cold outside. The car had sort
of steamed up, frosted over.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
I was going to say, was it like, uh, was
it like jacket rose?

Speaker 1 (18:23):
It kind of was, yeah, it kind of was.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yep, she has her palm pretty glass.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Oh that's that's pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, yep, yep, yep. Boy. I loved that car though.
Man I loved having that that option available to me.
Because my girlfriend had a car at the same time too,
and sometimes she would drive because you know, our parents
were weird about stuff like that, and there my mom
was like, well she's got to drive sometimes too. I'm like, okay, whatever,
you know, and so she would drive and her car
was I don't remember what it was, but it was

(18:57):
a tiny little roller skate of a are and so
a lot more difficult logistically to engage in the activity.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
We wanted to engage in.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
In the car. It made for a much more abbreviated
sort of encounter. I would say, it.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Just gets uncomfortable, right, right, exactly, That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, it limits the sorts of activities you can do,
and yeah, definitely it gets to be uncomfortable over time.
So yeah, all right, well I told that story. So
so yeah, Ryan and Marissa, Ryan and Teresa and Eddie,

(19:43):
Julie versus Ryan, We've talked about a little bit. I mean,
there's an argument to be made, and this is one.
This is one of my thesies that I didn't that
I didn't have time to flesh out as I was
I was sort of in my final preparations for the podcast,
and I was like, oh, I hadn't thought about this
before right now, But basically, every bad thing that happens

(20:04):
on the OC can be traced back to Julie Cooper
one way or the other. I mean, it's it's easy
to say I had a piece that I had written.
There's at one point where Marissa says, oh, it's my fault,
and I said, you could basically say that about anything
that happens on the OC. But but the truth of
it is that it actually gets traced back to her

(20:27):
mom more so than Marissa. So a lot of this,
a lot of the flak that Marissa gets is because
of what her mom is doing. And Julie Cooper is
one of the all time classic Terrible TV character.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
I mean she's just like a horrific parent, you know,
a horrific mother, just everything about her.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
And then yeah, well I was.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Just say, like hot looks trumps a lot of sea,
a lot of laws.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
There's there's a moment where she says, you know the
that I have on her characters that she says her domain.
She tells Jimmy because she was pissed that he lost
all their money and she's like, oh, my domain was
the bedroom in the kitchen, and yours was, you know,
the breadwinning or whatever. And I'm like, I don't buy
it for a fucking minute, Like, there's no way you've

(21:19):
cooked anything but boxed mac and cheese in the last
twenty years. And and by the way, huge starfish vibes,
huge starfish vibes, there's no way that she's that her
domain was the bedroom.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
I don't know, baby, I mean, you know, like her background,
you know, like she would have been like recruited by Epstein,
you know, like is like a you know, not a
privileged background growing up.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
And yeah, in fact, you know what she did that
as we like she had that she was being blackmailed
for that, for that adult film that she did.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Do you remember that.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
In the Yeah, in the series in the series, yeah,
in season two, I think that happens. Yeah, because she's
still married to Caleb when that happens.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, Oh that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
And so I don't know, I mean I can see that,
I mean, how many I know, I'm familiar with a
lot of females.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
I can see that coming from her.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
But by the way, played absolutely brilliantly flawlessly by Melinda Clark.
I oh, yeah, Julie Cooper is one of the great
all time love to hate characters on TV. Uh and
and Melinda Clark played her note perfect. I will say
she's absolutely fantastic. You know Melinda Clark from the OC

(22:48):
for sure, but maybe the original run of CSI she
played a dominatrix, Miss Heather. I think her name was
on there, or Lady Heather something like that.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
I I don't remember that. Yeah, it would have been
around the same.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Time, would have been a few a couple years later, Yeah,
a couple of years later, like two thousand and eight,
two thousand and nine, something like that. And then Days
of Our Lives. You you might remember her from that.
She was She was on a big run of Days
of Our Lives back in the early nineties or late eighties.
I think so she was in that show.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Can I just say that, like her and Kirsten, they're
perfectly cast I think as far as like you know,
like just the casting is perfect for both of them.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, I think I think so too. Yeah, And that's
that's Kelly Rowan, Kirsten Cohen, that's she. She was on
you You probably haven't seen anything else that she's been on.
It's like there's a there's a TNT show called Perception
that had like thirty episodes or something like that that
she was on. And she seems from from what I
read in the book, she seems like an absolutely lovely person.

(23:52):
Kelly Rowan does and she's perfect for the show. She
does a fantastic job. She's very young, like, you know,
it's interesting sort of the ages of some of these characters.
She's only a few years older than the core for like,
she's like thirty years old being playing a parent to
these people who are who are twenty five that's right,

(24:15):
and married to married to a guy who's you know,
fifty or whatever. So it's yeah, it's definitely interesting.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Have you ever met anybody like like I've bought it
up like over the course where you you had serious
like your friends maybe had were serious mills, like their
mothers were very like just very attractive.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Oh like when when I was in high school or whatever, yeah,
high school or college. I don't I don't think I did.
I'm trying to remember. I don't know. No one sticks
out in my memory, as you know, the hot mom
of of my friend group, like I don't think, yeah,
I don't think we had one in my friend group,
Like they were all pretty mumsy. Oh really, It's funny

(25:05):
because like going to school at San Diego State, you know,
like there's a lot of a lot of kids who
end up going living from in Orange County going down
to suh.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
If there's like their second or third choice.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
It's safety school. If school, Yeah, it's not anymore, it's not.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, yeah, well things have changed, right.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
But in fact, I was going to say that I think, uh, Rachel,
she she went to Grossmont Community College way back in
the day, like you know before she is, so she
was like in San Diego going to school down there
back in the day.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
So I don't know. Yeah, well I was gonna say,
my you know, my roommate.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Is uh his mother was like unbelievable, like like I
don't know, I'm just like.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Oh my god, it was her.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
It was her and his sister like came down to
visit one time, and I'm like, oh my god, mother.
And I'm not even talking like oh, you know, like
I'm talking about like LA like nine or something like that.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
In l A nine.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, yeah, was he rich, does have money?

Speaker 3 (26:27):
His dad was he did like three professional fights, like
he was a boxer, but then he went into visit.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
You know, he's doing contractor work.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, wow.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
But yeah, I'll never forget that, you know. It's like, okay, unreal.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah yeah. And and you know what I say, I'd say,
aside from her hair, which is pretty rough in the
first half of the season, she's got like there they'll
be a scene and then in a different scene her
hair will be a completely different color, and then in
the next scene it'll be a completely different color. It
was like this weird shade of orangey blonde that was

(27:16):
not doing her mighty favors. But but yeah, aside from that,
she's of course gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah. And she's exactly the type of uh yeah, I was.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Gonna say, she's just like like cast perfectly as far
as like my experience as far as like.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Women from Orange County.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, well and the well, the certain kind of women
from Orange County, the the strivers, right, the the the
type from Orange County as opposed to the the Julie
Cooper's of the world who just want to be taken
care of. She's out there, you know, bread winning. There's
a reference early in the season they talk about Peter

(27:58):
Peter Gallagher, Sandy Cohen's Sandy Cohen talks a bit about
how the one hundred thousand that she loans to Jimmy
is more than he makes in a year, and that
tracks because even a senior PD in Orange County is
probably only gonna make at that point seventy seventy five
grand a year. That's crazy, that's absolutely nuts. And so

(28:22):
she's got to be making a ridiculous amount of money
because they live in a four million dollar home in
two thousand and three, and they and they He drives
a BMW seven Series and she drives a range Rover.
So I mean they've got, you know, two hundred thousand
dollars where the cars sitting in the driveway on top of.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
That so on, on top of a house in Orange
County with an ocean view, right, it looks like it's
on a hillside, right, and.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Private school, Harbor School, you know, tuition for Seth and
now Ryan, it's probably I mean it's probably thirty thousand
dollars a year. That's what the Bishop School down here is.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Oh is it?

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah? It was, that was probably ten years ago, it's
probably fifty now.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
So that's that's a lot of money floating through.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
You're going fifty thousand dollars a year to go to
high school. That's crazy, I.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Know, isn't that nuts? I mean, well, but you know what,
like we were talking before we started recording, what that
gives you is that gives you the network?

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Oh you know, that's what that gets you. That gets you,
you know, interactions with who you know, like the elite.
It's not necessarily how smarter merit is. Uh, it's just
the network.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
So right place, right time.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, Well we mentioned Sandy. Let's talk about him a
little bit. Peter Gallagher. You know him from the OC,
maybe from Californication, maybe SBU. He was on several episodes
of that. You probably know him from American Beauty. He's
the thing.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yes, that's right, that floating bag, that floating trash bag.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
It's so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
I just I love that scene where they pull up
to the drive through the characters in the window. You
don't get to tell me what to do any more.
It's so nice. I love that scene. But yeah, and

(30:22):
you know, Peter Gallagher is great. He's a musical theater guy.
He loves musical theater. They said that he would walk
around the set singing and like making up songs about
people and stuff like that. His character's great. He's a
good dad. Everybody wants Sandy Cohen as their dad, or
at least I did. I don't know about you, but do.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
You think he was a good dad.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
I think he was a pretty good dad from the
perspective of teaching Ryan and Seth the better way. He
would help. He was a good dad in helping them
to make the right choices. He was a terrible dad
when it came to oversight supervision like actually laying down

(31:07):
the law or establishing rules or any sense of order.
He was terrible at that. He would try and guide
them to make the right decision, but for themselves, right, Yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Think that's good.

Speaker 3 (31:18):
That's the accurate because I would see that, you know,
just setting boundaries is it was like tough for that household, right.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Tough for all of these households. Apparently these kids are baral.
They're wandering around with no supervision, no oversight. There's this
I've got I've got a bullet point that just says
absent Tee Perry parenting. It's like that, I think it's
the episode where is it. It's the episode where I

(31:49):
think it's the one where Luke could get shot. Both
Seth and Uh or I'm sorry, not Seth. Sandy and
Kirsten are home and they can ask like where where
Seth is and they're like, oh, I don't know, but
I'm sure he's fine, and he's he's been involved in

(32:10):
a shooting at a party and they don't even know yet.
Like the phone rings and it's them calling from the
hospital or whatever. It's like they just have no idea
where their children are at any point in time. Yeah,
it feels very gen X, very familiar to those of
us who are gen X to have watched this and go, oh,
I know that's at ten pm. Do you know where

(32:33):
your children's?

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Where your children are? Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah, so there's definitely do like I was gonna say,
I do like how like uh. Kirston actually calls that
out at the beginning of season two, like, oh, one
day when she's like telling Sandy go get him.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
You know, I'm trying to be a hippie is.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Basically that's what she says. I'm tired of your ipy, bullshit.
We've got a responsibility. We have to be parents. We
can't we can't just let this child do whatever they want.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
Yeah, so yeah, it's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
He's also a little pervy. I wrote a little bit
about this because I was I didn't I didn't remember
this being the case. But but there's definitely some some
sort of moments there. You know, Sandy flirts with Marissa
a little bit. He calls summer hot a couple of times,
like in a very enthusiastic sort of way to write,

(33:36):
Like he's sort of commiserating with Seth about how hot
his girlfriend is. And that's funny and cool, but maybe
a little inappropriate.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Well that's part of the hippie thing.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
You know.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
They're not parents, he's the.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
Buddy, which is kind of it is kind of cool
in a way because you know, it is a lot
especially when these is I mean they're fourteen or fifteen
or whatever. I mean, that's not really old, but you're
in that transition of getting to adulthood right now.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
So you need.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
To teach them how to be adults. But they don't
know how to be You can't just asleep. They'll figure
it out, you know, it was pre smartphone and pre
ubiquitous internet, so it probably you know, it was it
was a little bit closer to the way we grew
up than sort of the way kids grew up today, though.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
All right, so that's uh, that's Sandy.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
And then and then, you know, our last sort of
main character this season, although it's arguably not. He's not
a series of regular. He's just a recurring is Jimmy
Cooper and I call him Millhouse's dad. So yeah, because
he's he's basically Kirk van Houghton. He's he's a hard

(34:59):
luck loser, but you know, he doesn't have the same
sort of down on his luck of lifestyle that Kirk
van Houten has because he's you know, continue continually falling
backwards into money. He still gets to live in Newport
and then he eventually goes to Hawaii. And I mean,
he's he's to me, the easiest character to laugh at

(35:20):
in the show. Heh, he's easily the worst character in
season one in my opinion, And I think that he
is just so aggressively negligent as a father that it's
it's very frustrating. The thing that really sticks out to me.
I mean, there's so much that sticks out to me
about Jimmy Cooper and I have a lot of a
lot of little things we'll talk about as we go

(35:41):
through some of the occurrences of the show. But the
thing that sticks out to me the most is when
he and Julie are have finally decided that they're getting
divorced and he's moving out, and it's happens to be
the same weekend that the kids are going to TJ.
Kirsten's like, oh, well, you can't let her go to
TJ without telling her, And he's like, you know what,

(36:03):
You're right, let me call her on the cell phone
and tell her that I'm getting divorced. Well, she's on
her way to TJ. And he thinks that's a good idea. Yeah,
your parents are getting divorced and I'm moving out. I
won't be here when you get back.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Well, yeah, that goes back to the whole thing with
a negligent parenting, right, just aggressively negligent. How does a
guy like that end up in that, Like you're saying,
how does he fall backwards? It's a like status and
money at that point, because I mean, he I mean,
he's basically stealing all these people's money, right, so what

(36:42):
would Julie actually, but what would kars to see in
a guy like that other than he's like a brilliant
at manipulating and hiding his faults or his missteps.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Right, Yeah, I mean that's that's sort of what you
have to be good at to impress women initially at least,
right ultimately, you know, you you you have to be Yeah,
there there should be some substance behind that at some point,
but but ultimately that's you know, that's sort of what
dating is. It's putting on a kind of the most polished,

(37:15):
most sort of focused approach.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
I don't know, Yeah, well, I guess what I'm asking is,
you know, Kirsten probably saw that, but she was still
remaine friends with him.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Oh yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying. He he
lives next door, right, he was our first love, and
so there's there's an element of that. I see what
you're saying. That's not particularly realistic that these people that
Kirsten continues to associate with him, especially given his wife
as Julie Cooper.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, So I don't know, you know, like it's It's
one of those things where it is I think, like
a fault in this in his character as far as, like,
you know, like I'd like to see maybe he was
really really good at one time as far as like
making money for his clients.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, you know, like you know.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
I think I think they they kind of imply that
he was right because everybody had their money invested with
him and he was doing really well, and then he
kind of, you know, he made a couple of bad
trades or whatever, and then it kind of snowballed and
spiraled on him on.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
His trade account, right exactly doing it on the at
home from.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Home on the trade with a with a twelve minute delay. Yeah, geez,
I uh. I remember watching this the first time and thinking,
and I even when I watched it the second time,
you know, a few years ago, I remember watching it
and thinking to myself, oh, Jimmy Cooper has a gambling
problem because he's he's always watching ESPN Classic or watching

(38:50):
some some sort of sports on television and on my
and we knew he was in financial troubles before it
all got revealed. You knew he's in financial troubles. You
see him constantly watching sports on TV and you're like, oh,
he's got a gambling addiction and he's lost all their
money to bookies or whatever. I think that might have
been a more interesting story.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
I think so too. I actually think so too.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
And I like how they do establish I mean, this
is just another burden that Marissa has as a character, Like,
you know, she has to deal like he doesn't want
to deal with these ages who should have.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Up at the house.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
She's to answer the door.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Speaking of that scene, I'll talk about that scene for
a second because I have this I have this bullet
point here called sex object Marissa, and that in that
scene is she's shot from behind with basically most of
her hip exposed and her pants down like halfway down
her ass when she's talking to her father. They're shooting

(39:49):
her from basically like like center frame butt of Marissa
on screen, with Jimmy kind of in the background as
she's talking to him. It's sort of the first instance
of that sort of objectification of the high school girl
that you see over and over and over and over

(40:10):
again in this show. And I very much stuck out
to me on this watch.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
Well, even the like the wardrobe that these girls and
maybe that was at the time. I think that was
probably what was in style anyway, but just I remember
like it was very like the clothing just for high
school kids, just very reveal, like yeah, yeah, I'm.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Like, well, if that was your daughter, would you let
her dress?

Speaker 6 (40:39):
Well?

Speaker 1 (40:39):
And that's that's the other thing, right, It's like, okay,
well wait is that the right vernacular? Is that the
right would you let her do that? Or would you
encourage her to make better choices? It's like it's tough
there too, right, So.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Well, it's the setting boundaries part again.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, exactly. But they talked about when they were casting Marissa.
The character description of her was that she is the
most beautiful girl in the world and she knows it
and that easily. Yeah, that is what they were looking
for when they cast her. That was their sort of
character synopsis for her character.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
So that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, but we'll get back to the sex object Marissa
stuff because there's a bunch of that, but it's not
just Marissa. It's also you know, Summer in several scenes
as well, and we'll talk a little bit about that
and sort of like, again, is it problematic is it
not problematic? And you know, is it different differently problematic

(41:32):
when when Summer Rachel Bilson's twenty four years old in
the scene versus when it's Misha Barton and she's she's sixteen.
I think the worst storyline in season one is the
dual storyline between Sandy and Rachel and Kirsten and Jimmy,

(41:57):
where the Cohen marriage is supposedly under duress from from
these external forces. I think it's a dumb storyline. I
never bought it for a minute. I didn't buy it
when when I was watching the show the first time,
I bought it even less this time around. It doesn't.
It doesn't make sense to me. It's not you know,
it's one of those things where it's like if if

(42:19):
Rachel the partner at the law firm that Sandy's working at,
or the other associate at the law firm, whatever, which
whatever she is, if if she were not actually trying
to seduce Sandy, and it was Kirsten's guilt that was
being projected onto Sandy and made and because Kirsten had

(42:44):
loaned Jimmy Cooper that money and she was feeling bad
about that and it felt like a betrayal, and so
she was projecting onto Sandy. I think it's a way
better storyline in that circumstance. I think that this clumsy,
sort of attempted monopolization of Sandy's time by Rachel, who,
by the way, Sandy never really shows any significant interest

(43:05):
in her whatsoever.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
Yeah, Yeah, I think he plays it pretty like, oh,
you know, I'm a merry man, you know that whole thing.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
He does play plays it perfectly.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Actually, he doesn't send her mixed signals. He doesn't. Yeah,
there's none of that. And I think it's a way
better storyline if it's Kirsten's guilt that's sort of amping
her up on this instead of Rachel deliberately trying to
destroy their marriage.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
I know, I mean it's yeah, and I think that
is I would agree.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
I think that's like one of the worst well, the
most fruit I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Even say the most forgettable.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Part as far as the season one is that because
she's not I can, she's not as attractive as Kirsten,
you know, physically, you know, so you.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Know, I know, and and.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
And that's of course that's what matters.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
A side piece, have a side piece that you have
to go for the you know, that's like the Monica
Lewinsky problem, right, It's like, why would he bang on?

Speaker 1 (44:07):
No, I'm not gonna sit here. I'm not going to
sit here and let you Monica Lewinsky was adorable then.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
And is adorable now. I will say, Okay, you can
say that doesn't mean it's true.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
I believe that.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
You think so, I don't know. I do well.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
I do, and she seems like a wonderful, lovely person.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Also, that part is true. I think I can see that.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
But but we don't know to what's that we don't Yes,
there is room room for descent, but I think at
least for the for the character uh Rachel whatever her
name is, god like, it would be annoying.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Actually, I think after I like just these transparent like uh,
you know, attempt at flirtation.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, Sandy, you know, yeah, it would be a turn off.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
I agree with you one hundred percent. It felt so
clumsy and like poorly orchestrated, and I like, you wonder
like Sandy's like, you know what, dude, I'm really not interested.
Why don't you leave me alone? It's like it's it's
the Deme Moor uh uh sexual harassment movie from the nineties.
Right disclosure disclosure yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what it felt

(45:29):
like a little bit. But I didn't like it. And
and by the way, and then Rachel just like gets poochied.
You look like you've got something to say, do you?

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yes, certainly do I have to go now? My planet
needs me.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Oh geez dead Like during this she just disappears and
is never seen again. She gets returned to her home
planet with no sort of fanfare whatsoever. She's just she
was in one episode, you know, sitting on the couch
with Jimmy Cooper. In the next episode, she's gone forever.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
It would have been funny, it would have been well,
it would just get so complicated at that point, you know,
like Jimmy Cooper and her and I don't know, it
would get kind of just like a little bit too confusing.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
So it's good that they injected her.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Oh I I agree with you one hundred percent, Like
she had to go. I just I just thought it
was funny, just the way that she literally just disappeared
with no fan They never mentioned her name again on
the show.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Yeah, It's like when you leave the Amish community and
you're shunned. It's like.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
She did the Irish goodbye.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yes exactly, Yes, yeah, I love the Irish goodbye. That's
my favorite. That's my favorite thing. I always do an
Irish goodbye.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
That's the proper way to exit.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Absolutely Otherwise you're arrogant or you're narcissist. That's what I said.
If you have to walk around saying goodbye to everybody
because you think they care that you're leaving, you're a narcissist. Well,
I don't want to leave, but maybe you could convince
me to stay.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
I don't want to spend an hour and a half
say goodbye to everybody.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
All right, Well, let's talk about the other half of
this this four way love square. Here Kirston and Jimmy
and and so you've got You've got Kirsten, who is
again she's sort of playing the Sandy role here in
to Jimmy's sort of trying to seduce her a little bit.

(47:52):
But at the same time she is actually sort of
leading Jimmy on a little bit. She's having secret conversations
with Jimmy. She's loaning him one hundred thousand dollars, she's,
you know, helping him paint his apartment. She's doing all
of these things. And then he of course, being Millhouse's
dad tries to make out with her and that fails miserably,

(48:14):
but it does put a little bit of pressure and
tens on the relationship. But the first thing I want
to focus on is sort of the hard money loan
that he gets from Kirsten here, Like they're standing in
they're standing in one of many multimillion dollar houses that
Kirsten's company builds, and he's asking her for a short

(48:38):
term hard money, one hundred thousand dollars loan. And my
perspective on this is that there's no universe where Jimmy's problem,
whatever it is, he's managing money for who knows how
many people, where his problem is solved, even temporarily, for
one hundred thousand dollars, Like it felt very much to me,

(49:00):
like we need an amount of money that people who
watched the show will think is a lot of money,
but actually isn't a lot of money.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Yeah, that's the like making the minimum payment on your
credit card bill.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah, it doesn't help you, it doesn't do anything.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
You got to pay that take on whatever that Like
you're saying whatever, whatever amount it is, because I would think,
you know, you're getting it probably well, if he's managing
people's money like that and you're getting into the millions, probably.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Have to be. You have to be. He's gotta have
a Yeah, he's gotta have a multi million dollar problem.
Otherwise he's got a house that we find out he's
got three point six million dollars in equity on. I mean,
it's like, okay, you're going you're gonna go to your
next door neighbor ex girlfriend for a one hundred thousand
dollars hard money loan instead of taking out a note
on the on the three point six million dollars in

(49:51):
equity you have in your house. Come on, man, what
are you doing? It should be for him. For Kirsten,
this should be the red flag of all red flags.
She's a smart woman, she's a businesswoman, she's a senior
executive and a developer. She knows, she has to know
that there's no world where Jimmy Cooper's problem is solved
with one hundred thousand dollars one whatever his problem is.

(50:13):
She knows that her money doesn't solve that problem, but
she gives it to him anyway.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Yeah, and that goes back to the whole thing about
her leading, uh leading Jimmy on a little bit.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Yeah, you know, like.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
I mean, it's I think that's one of the problems
like when men and women are our friends, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Because because men don't want to be friends, the women do,
and the men take everything that women do as leading
them on or do you have a different perspective on that.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
I know, I think that's right.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
I think that, you know, like especially like her, like
here'stid you know, like she's obviously attract like physically attract
smart and.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Everything else, Like you were saying, but how you know,
what sort of what sort of an attraction would she
find in Jimmy knowing him as long as she hasn't
known him?

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Right, No, you're you're absolutely right, Like why would why
would she wouldn't And and it's clear that she doesn't,
Like she's conflicted a little bit because she has she
has the feel she has the memories, the nostalgia right, yes, yes,
but but it's not Nostalgia doesn't make people cheat, Like
it's a pleasant memory, not a you know, thing that

(51:31):
you want to revisit necessarily for for Kirsten.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
I think, yeah, yeah, I think that's right.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Well, especially when we find out later that she got
a bobo with Jimmy Cooper's baby because she knew he
was a looser.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
I know that's uh, that's probably as d I because
I never really liked that that whole arc with her
like being an alcoholic. But I do like, I did
like the part where you know, like.

Speaker 6 (51:58):
She did she she had uh the the abortion, and
I kind of wish that they actually kind of dealt
more into that as far as uh uh as for
her as a story, I.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Do too, I do too. It felt again it was
one of those plot lines where you know, it came
up in one episode. By the end of the episode,
Teresa had made the decision to have the baby and
that was that and uh, you know this is after
Kirsten gives that kind of heartfelt speech and they have
lunch together and talk about it, and you're like, holy crap,
we're learning a little bit about k Kirston here. And

(52:33):
then it's just like, well, let's never talk about that again.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
They're like, oh, next to what do you what did
you say that? Next? Next storyline?

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Next storyline? We just burned through three episodes worth of material.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
It's the monster of the week.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
It really is. Yeah, so see Kirsten and anything else
I have on Kirsten and Jimmy.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
I So I have a question for you. Do you
think that, uh, Kirsten when when she invites Ryan to
stay after after the mom gets ship faced and bailed
at the at the casino night you know, mm hm,
when she invites Kirsten to stay, do you think that

(53:26):
or that Kirsten when she invites Ryan to stay, do
you think she's doing this to make up to Sandy
for the fact that she kind of wants to bang
Jimmy Cooper and instead London a briefcase of cash.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
I think that she.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
I think because she's an older one, you know, like
they only have one child, right as Seth and if
and if I were looking at Seth as my only son,
I was like, can.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
I get another runs? Like, can I get another chance?

Speaker 1 (53:57):
You know what I mean, let's on that last card
one more time? Yeah, all right, that's fair, that's fair.
And then of course at the end of season four,
she actually is pregnant again.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Do they have twins? I think they had twins. I
don't remember.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
I don't remember. I haven't watched it yet, so I
don't remember.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
But we'll just say that they have twins because you know,
older couples have twins.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
That's true. Yeah, fertility treatments, thank you.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Yeah, what did you think? What did you think? You
thought it was a guild?

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Well, I thought that I thought that it definitely played
into it because she kind of goes from she kind
of goes from no, no, no, to yes. And look,
I think there's an argument to be made here that
that actually she's right to say no, because I mean,
you think about it, this is a guy who this
is a felon, right he you came in contact with

(54:59):
him because he stole a car and evaded the police.
These are serious, serious felonies, and they aren't his first
run in with the loss, so he's a repeat offender.
The first thing he does they go out to a
party and it's not his fault, but she doesn't know that, right,
and so from her perspective, they go out to a

(55:21):
party and Seth gets in a fight, and so she's
got to be like, hey, look, he's a bad influence
on Seth. Even though that was mostly Seth's fault. She
probably has to give her son the benefit of the doubt.
And then she takes mercy on him and he repays
her after his mom ditches him, she takes mercy on him,

(55:43):
lets him come back until they can find someplace to
put him in foster care. And then he repays her
by running away and burning down her model, I mean.
And then later he's involved in gunplay and a gunplay
incident because of the guys he was working with at
the diner, and he uh, he goes to Chino to

(56:06):
transport a stolen vehicle for his freaking hoodlum brother. I mean,
there's a lot of evidence here that maybe Kirsten was right,
maybe we shouldn't let this this violent convicted or this
violent felon into our home to corrupt our family.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
Yeah, and you know it's not like he's a young kid.
You know, he's a teenager. So there's that part of
it too. How much, at a certain point you start,
you stop. Not that your personality or your character is
set in stone, but yeah, at a certain point, there's
always so much he could do.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Yeah, the point he got that's exactly right. The turnaround
is is yeah, minimal, right, the die has been cast
at some point, and and you know they hang this
whole thing on well, Ryan's smart, right, He's a smart right, Yeah,
he's a smart kid because he scored the ninety eighth
percentile on his AC on his SATs, which which means

(56:59):
he was scring between a fourteen forty and a fifteen twenty. Right,
those are that's a good score. But he's a sophomore.
Why would he have taken the SAT already? First of all?
And second of all, why would he be taking the
SAT at all? I don't believe for one minute that
Ryan's mom paid the fees for him to take the
damn SAT. You're not going to college anyway, I could

(57:23):
hear it. I grew up around these people, did you. Well,
not exactly, but I mean, look, I I you know,
I've been clear about the fact that I come from
a white trash background.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
That is true. That is true. Yeah, well, I think
that you're right.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
But you know, at the time, we made the assumption
that he was a junior, right, like.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Yeah, that's true, that's true. We did. That's true, so
it would have made sense. But again it's still like, oh, well,
Ryan's smart because he did well on his SATs.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
Oh and for whatever reason that that's I mean, really
what drove this was Sandy bringing him home.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yeah, well, and and Sandy sees himself and Ryan, we
talked about this a little bit already, but but he
definitely does. He sees he sees an at risk kid
who's who seemingly has a soul still he hasn't lost
it yet, and he knows that if he goes into
the system, he's going to lose his soul, so he's

(58:29):
trying to trying to prevent that from happening. Sandy's also
got a you know, a savior a little bit of
a savior complex too at the same time.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's the whole thing with a public defender,
you know, being that guy.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
But the one thing I.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
Don't see from him is just and maybe it's just
the casting is and like him being a physically like
who is capable of violence.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
You know, I don't see that yet, Sandy.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Oh no, I don't either. I don't either. He very
much feels like a conscientious objector type, you know, yeah,
put flowers and gun barrels and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Mean I could see, you know, like Caleb, I could
see him as being physical, you know, like something like
some guy like that, well with that presence, you know,
like a bigger guy.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
I don't see that with Sandy at all.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
That was one of the that was one of the
shows that I wrote down as a spinoff prequel, was
was Caleb coming up in the world of land development
in the OC sort of like oh type thing.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Oh, that would be fantastic.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Actually, I think you're really good. I think if you're
yeah fun, that would be yeah, twenty set twenty years
like set in the seventies, you know, I think it'd be.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Yeah, Oh, that would be fantastic. Yeah, So we'll have
to get Josh Wartz to you what's right?

Speaker 1 (59:47):
The thing exactly they're talking they they talked about a reboot.
There's there's definitely a little bit of energy behind a reboot.
They want they want Ion and Seth though and uh
and Seth is or Adam Brody has kind of said
and not really all that interested.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
So of course he would say that, right exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Because they want to they want to bring it back
with them as the dads now like older, like a
like a full house sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Oh yeah, I think that would.

Speaker 7 (01:00:24):
I was just saying, well, where's the time, because you
know they're doing these uh, these reboots, and now this
one's to for a reboat possibly, Yeah, or are you
saying that it's Adam Brody putting a kabas on it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Sounds like Adam Brody's putting the kabash on it. And unless, unless,
the unless the creators are willing to kind of deviate
from their plan of you know, hey, this is this
is what we think the reboot looks like. That's not
going to happen, gotcha. And I wouldn't want them. I
wouldn't want them to deviate from their plan anyway. I
trust them to make a good plan, right yeah, yeah, hey, uh,

(01:00:59):
I I was I was looking at like what we
were talking a little bit about Ryan stealing the car,
and it's actually Trey that stole the car. Ryan just
happened to be with him, I guess. Although I think
they set out to steal the car that day, I
don't know, but they're they're stealing a Camaro and I
thought it was a trans Am, but it is a
Camaro and the cops. It's just so aggressive the way

(01:01:23):
the cops like wreck the car immediately on the chase,
like they're chasing the and they're they're you know, very
heavily high speed chasing these kids who stole this car
and then they like pit them into like a like
a mailbox or whatever in a wall or a mailbox
or whatever. Like immediately that's like, before anything else happens,

(01:01:44):
we're gonna wreck these kids, uh, in this stolen car.
It felt very very aggressive to me. But what I
will say is that other than that, we don't really
see much involvement from the cops in the whole first season.
And it's it's really funny to me because there's so

(01:02:04):
many crimes committed and we don't we hardly ever see
the cops. And it's again, it's the difference between sort
of you know, rich poor, white, black sort of socioeconomic
and racial sort of elements that factor into this. You know,
the cops don't show up to rich people's houses in

(01:02:25):
Newport for petty crimes. They just don't. But if Ryan
lived in Chino, they'd be all over him, right, they'd
be hassling him constantly. And so it's it's an interesting
sort of sort of dynamic there that you know, it's
not it's never really heavily highlighted or heavily featured in
the show, but it's definitely something it has to be.

(01:02:47):
They don't talk about it in the book or anything
like that, but it has to be something that they
had in mind what they.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Do to you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
Oh, I was just to say that they do like
make references to oh, you know like in Orange County.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Oh, like these new Ports in particular, Oh what's her name?

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Where that hotel is.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
That she's staying in the numbered streets you know, like
the particular neighborhood is.

Speaker 8 (01:03:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So they do make references, and then
they always have the visuals as far as all the
wealth and stuff, you know, like to establish over in
Newport or Orange County or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
But yeah, I think you're I think that's pretty that's
pretty spot on as far as that's concerned.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Well, they talked, They talked a little bit in the
book about the whole thing about them that they don't show.
They you could tell they felt bad about not having
a more diverse cast. Even when it goes like deep
like when they have fifty people on the screen, they're
all white people, Like there's no there's no Asians, there's

(01:03:50):
no Indians, like you would even if even if you're
like going, okay, well we're going to base this on
socioeconomic status, and of course, you know, among the rich
and powerful and Newport, it's going to be mostly white people.
But you have to figure that there's some physicians and
engineers and things like that that might not be might
not be white people that are also.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Asian or yeah, but not black.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
There is a scene, there is a scene with the
diverse cast, and you know what it is. It's the
scene when when Julie gets strippers for her bachelorette party.
I would like, there are two black strippers and an
Asian stripper, bringing the total number of minorities in Newport
to six. The detention kids, the principal, and these strippers

(01:04:47):
because the principal's Asian.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
It's right, yeah, doctor whatever her name was, doctor Lee
or whatever. That's true.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
While we're on the topic of Julie's bachelor party, are
a baut party. I don't have much else for it.
You know, she wants bottomless strippers and bottomless marks, and
I'm like, you know what, who am I to judge?
H She talks about these these strip clubs and she
the the bottomless male strip clubs, Mantopia, the stud Farm,

(01:05:17):
and the Petting Zoo. Yeah, which absolutely amazing names. I
came up with a couple of others. I liked the
barber shop because of the poles and the chicken shack.
I liked that because it's a cock reference. I was

(01:05:40):
trying to because you know, look it, it feels like
a very trivial exercise to come up with the names
of strip clubs with with naked dudes that are sort
of that lean gay. It feels feels very hack to
sort of do that. So I was trying to come
up with ones that felt very uh ambivalent about sexuality.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
I do like the idea of the heavy petty the
heavy petting.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Zoo, heavy petting zoo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great. At
the same time, the Bachelor Party, I don't know when
else when else we're going to talk about this, so
so I'm gonna mention it here the the Bachelor party
for Caleb. Uh there do they do that in Vegas?
And the OC definitely took lessons from Entourage for the

(01:06:31):
Vegas scenes. Did you notice that?

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Yes, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
The pool and the casino is stuffed with all these
like gorgeous women just walking around. It's like, uh, it's
like they're at a like some sort of retreat or
Summit for models.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Entourage is notorious for that too.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
Write like just like like, I don't know, I started
rewatching some of those episodes, like the Entourage episodes. It's
like it's like borderline bay Watch, you know, like bay
Watch is no toys for doing that too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Yeah, yes, it's like Baywatch. That's great. Yeah, I'm betting
that show doesn't It didn't age real well. I haven't
revisited that since it stopped daring, but I'm guessing it's shameful.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
They did do a just they did do a movie
version of bay Watch with the Rock and I forgot
who else, but definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Yeah, Kristen Bell was it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Kristen Bell.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Yeah, Kristen Bell was in that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Oh okay, yeah, I think you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
I think right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Zachron Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, And yeah that movie
the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Was on the same level as the show, which it
wasn't very good, but high productive values.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
I'll just say that, I, uh, you know, you had
mentioned one of the things that I didn't that I
didn't get to when you had mentioned that party in
the first episode. There's a there's a moment there where
they walk into the party and the original version of

(01:08:19):
the Black Eyed Peas song Let's Get Retarded is playing
in the BA is playing at the party, and it
just it just goes out over the TV. It's like
they put it on TV. They put that song on television.
It's still in it's still in the DVD or still
in the HBO stream of the show. It's absolutely wild
to me. But this is one of the it's one

(01:08:41):
of the Howard Dean things I said about two thousand
and four, back when it was still okay to say
retarded on on television, or at least not not problematic,
not as problematic as it is now to say it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
I think it's coming.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
There's going to be a renaissance, renaissance on Yeah, yeah,
the other, the other Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
If not, the Groundless Newport podcast is going to bring
it back and buy it on its own.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Oh good, good good. I'm glad that you're that level
of commitment to the bit. I appreciate, Thank you. Let's
skip to uh, Julie and Luke so just never never
has the OC felt more like a soap opera than

(01:09:33):
when Julie starts banging Luke right. It's it's so good
and it's so funny. The night moves. Bob Singer music
in the background is wonderful. And then later when they
revisit it later and Luke is blaring it out of
his car, drinking after drinking, after they break off, it's

(01:09:58):
it's really really fun, and I really enjoy that, and
you know, I enjoy I also enjoy sort of Jewelie
taking ownership of that. Right. She comes to the parent
teacher conference in full sort of Missus Robinson attire and
basically tells him, Hey, come by and bang me later.

(01:10:20):
And they only get caught because they're banging in the
same shitty motel that Teresa is staying in. And it's
The mermaid In in Newport. And the thing that I
found the most funny about The mermaid In in Newport
is when you go into the lobby of the mermaid
In in Newport, there are like thirty clocks on the

(01:10:41):
wall for different time zones, Like there's some sort of
international tourist hotel like the Four Seasons Singapore or something.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
It's the Continental like the John Wicks, Yes exactly, but
very downscale.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Yeah, there's no concierge.

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
Yeah, oh so funny.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
And then Seth and Ryan of course Forrest gump their
way into seeing Julie and Luke at that hotel because
they go there looking for Teresa, and Luke just happens
to be there. And and it's great because Ryan, Ryan
definitively makes the right call.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
You.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
I never felt this way about a girl before.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
Yeah, I don't care tomorrow versus going to La you
you're going to Julie's.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
It's gonna end.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
For got it, it's gonna end.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
He's like, hey, you gotta stop right now. You're gonna
ruin everyone's life. You have to stop this. And and Luke,
to his credit, is like, yeah, you know what, You're right,
there's something wrong with that pretty far down the list

(01:11:59):
of arriable. Yeah, exactly, and that that's Ultimately he decides
to move to Portland with his gay dad because.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Of all that. That's true.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
But it's uh, yeah, it's it's it's really something.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
But I said, what are you getting? Oh, go ahead,
go ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
I I do love that storyline. I think it's really great.
I think it's as it's very soap operating and I
enjoy Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
It's it's yeah, it's it's it's so out of left field,
like for me, I remember the first time, we're like,
oh my god, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
Crazy, right, But what I was going to say is
the thing that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
Like, if you've made it this far, is that Ryan
actually is like he makes good calls. Yeah, everything he's
done is probably, but the results aren't what you would expect, right,
that's right, Like he makes these great, the correct calls
each time, each situation, and uh, it is very mature,

(01:13:04):
but it just doesn't work out for Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
The outcome, the outcome doesn't doesn't reconcile because something something
goes haywire along the way. Yeah, exactly, because it's absolutely
I mean, he did everything exactly correctly, but Marissa found
out anyway that's true. And then and then it's so
great the way Marissa tries to turn the tables like
she's like, oh, I have this information, so I am

(01:13:29):
going to stop my mom by telling Caleb, and Caleb's like, yeah,
I already know that ship. By the way, you're moving
back into my house.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
There's another break in that that burden that she has,
yeahs in.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
She's basically I mean it's by the end of the
first season, she's basically kept like a princess, kept locked
behind the walls of a castle.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Right, it's that's exactly, that's very accurate.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Yeah, she has a prison in a castle, literal palace.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
The velvet velvet prison, right, velvet handcuffs.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
So let's see anything else on Luke and Julie. No,
I don't have anything else. Wouldn't have been funny if
Luke had knocked up Julie though, God again, one of
those things that they could have done if they hadn't
burned through through too much story, right, that's right, like

(01:14:33):
at least a pregnancy scare.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Oh, I know, that would have been a good cliff
agger hunh Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Yeah, another minor sort of relationship here.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
I just want to talk about Jimmy Cooper a little bit,
Jimmy and uh, Jimmy and Haley, And we haven't really
talked about Haley yet, so I think there's a few
a few things we want to talk about her. But
it's it's interesting because there's the age gap here too, right,
And so Haley is Hailey's Kirsten's young her sister. He's played.
She's played by Amanda Rigghetti, who, by the way, was
nineteen years old when she was filming this show. And

(01:15:09):
you've got Millhouse's dad there, who's in a relationship with Haley,
who's like fifteen years younger than him. He used to
babysit her and uh, you know Julie Marry and Cal
who's fifteen years older than her her. It's like this
weird relationship dynamic that that family has. It's so strange.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
But yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Again, this is Millhouse's dad just tripping over his dick
into this relationship with with Amanda Riggetti, who's absolutely gorgeous
and yeah, just banging her on a boat all the time.
It's good for him.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
It's good for him, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
And you know the way they introduce her like the
oh I know, yeah it is yeah, and Ryan's and
Ryan's tank top and and her panties.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
Basically, yeah, it's really something. And she's she's an interesting
character too. Oh you know, I had I had she
does she does. I had given Summer sort of the
credit for most of the EU's in the show because
she she definitely does that. Oh yeah, yeah, I actually

(01:16:28):
have a short clip.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
You you.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
Oh my god, you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
I like it. But uh, there's a moment where, uh,
Haley is rating Kirsten's closet and she's like, is this
dress from Talbot's. I thought that was pretty funny kind
of a moment. There's lots of little blots, little brand

(01:17:00):
name shout outs during during the especially during the first
like half of the season. They really toned it down
in the second half of the season. And I don't
know if it was that they were just getting so
many offers they didn't know which ones they wanted to use,
or if they signed exclusive deals with certain brands or what.
They didn't really talk about that, but but I mean,

(01:17:21):
in the first couple episodes, you get Calvin Klein, Vera Wang,
Donna Koran, Product, Manola Wan. These names are all being
thrown around, and then by by like episode seven, episode eight,
nobody's mentioning any of that stuff anymore. So I don't
know what happened there, but something definitely changed.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
Well I'll tell you what. Like the most obvious one
is I think it's like season four.

Speaker 3 (01:17:44):
I think it is where they were in the summer
and her dad at the airport and they're like going
to Friday's TG.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Oh yeah, I don't remember that, but that's great. I
love that. You know, what would be nice if we
could enjoy if we could go enjoy some some what's
the the the Jack Daniels. Uh, if we can enjoy
a Jack Daniel's subourbon chicken at Apple that g g
I Fridays that Fridays. Yeah, I love the I love

(01:18:15):
these the chips and sal so that we get when we're.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
When we're enjoying him at Fridays.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Hit us up.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Yeah, exactly, there's one not too far from my house.
I'll go. I haven't gone before, but I don't think.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
I think I've been like a TGI Fridays, like maybe
five years ago or something like that, before the pandemic.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
I think the last time I was out of TGI
Fridays was when I still worked with you at sh
I'm pretty sure, because we would go there occasionally for
lunch the one fifth or whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well those were good times.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Did I remember we would go to that. We would
go to that Brazilian barbecue and it's ten bucks for lunch,
you know. Yeah, it's like forty dollars for the lunch special.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
Now, I know that's crazy, right, I mean, it's it's
just just the inflation.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Yeah, for the course of what fifteen years or twenty
years now.

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
Yeah, I know it's been a long time, but even so,
Ian's quadrupled in price. It's crazy, and yeah, you don't
get any more.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
It's got that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
Yeah, but uh but yeah, so so Haley. I had
some other things on Haley here, oh and on uh
and on and Jimmy of course, So Jimmy and Sandy.
While all this is going on in the background, Jimmy
and Sandy decide that they're going to complicate their lives
and start a restaurant together.

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
I like, I like that, you know, it is kind
of a weird pairing, right, because like Sandy is you
know that that was he took kirston, yeah, and Andy
did from from the Jimmy.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
Right, right, and then Jimmy tried to take Kirsten back
from him not that long before, not that longly or
not that much earlier, right, And so it is It's like,
I think what I wrote is like one of those
unlikely animal pairings where like the gazelle becomes best friends
with the lion or whatever. That's exactly what I was thinking.

(01:20:27):
It's like this, this is such a weird sort of
thing that you wouldn't normally see but yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
I mean just the just the interpersonal relationships, like exactly
the way that clip that you played uh with with
a seth you know, like it just that's where the
soap soap opera comes in, Like how are these relationships
like working out like that?

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Right? Like or you know, Jimmy is banging Kirsten's younger
sister right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Right, and Kirsten doesn't hate him for it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Yeah, it's so weird that that that that could happen, right,
And and of course, of course, you know Jimmy, you know,
when when Haley originally tries to seduce him, he turns
her down and and he of course knows that that's
the superpower that's only gonna make her want me more

(01:21:23):
exactly exactly, I'm gonna have this girl on a boat
in no time. Yeah, it's absolutely wild that that that. Yeah,
it's so I don't know that that one bothers me
more than anything, because Jimmy is such a loser and

(01:21:47):
Haley's had this interesting life where she's traveled the world
and done like criminal activity and been a weirdo and
everything else, and Jimmy's just been a freaking investment guy
in Newport like sit of.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
His computer doing whatever. Yeah, trees or whatever. Money.

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
It doesn't make any sense to me at all. And
it's it And the only reason it works is because
it revolves around this creepy babysitter relationship thing that they
had fifteen years prior.

Speaker 3 (01:22:16):
That's what exactly was going to say, Like he imprinted
himself in her like developmental memories or whatever you want
to call it, so so that contacts never changes for her.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
Probably if I were her, I would have worried about
him knocking her up. That's sort of his emma.

Speaker 6 (01:22:37):
Well, he knows where to get taken care of, that's true,
although he didn't with the Julie.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
Remember that's the whole sort of thing there.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
But and that'll wrap it up for our discussion for
part two, at least of our discussion of season one
of the oc uh SO. So we'll be back in
a few weeks with a new episode of season one
of the oc SO, our third and final we'll be
back in three weeks from today. Until then, don't forget

(01:23:12):
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S08E02 - The OC Season 1 - Part 2

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S08E02 - The OC Season 1 - Part 2