December 14, 2023 • 39 mins
In the latest episode of Growth Talks, we dive into the world of fan engagement with David Meerman Scott, a globally recognized marketing guru and author of 13 books, including numerous bestsellers. His latest masterpiece, "Fanocracy: Turning Fans into Customers and Customers into Fans," takes center stage in our conversation.
This episode is a treasure trove of insights as David breaks down the concept of 'Fanocracy.' We explore how companies can build genuine communities, engage their fans, and turn them into loyal customers. It's not just about the numbers; it's about creating a bond that transcends traditional marketing.
David generously shares practical advice, highlighting common mistakes to avoid. He offers a fresh perspective on customer engagement and brand loyalty.
Don't miss this opportunity to learn from one of the best in the business. Tune in to the full episode of Growth Talks and discover how to transform your customers into your biggest fans.
You can find the book Fanocracy here:
https://amzn.to/3TpAiY1
📚 Suggested book:
https://amzn.to/48dOSGk
🛠 Suggested tool:
https://www.lately.ai/
👍 Follow our guest here:
https://www.fanocracy.com/
https://www.davidmeermanscott.com/
🧲 Watch my free lead generation course:
https://gaito.link/skillshare
🤖 Watch my free ChatGPT course:
https://skl.sh/3ZKHFcV
🙏 Subscribe to the channel:
https://gaito.link/subscribe
📚 Download the Reading List:
https://gaito.link/gtbooks
This episode is a treasure trove of insights as David breaks down the concept of 'Fanocracy.' We explore how companies can build genuine communities, engage their fans, and turn them into loyal customers. It's not just about the numbers; it's about creating a bond that transcends traditional marketing.
David generously shares practical advice, highlighting common mistakes to avoid. He offers a fresh perspective on customer engagement and brand loyalty.
Don't miss this opportunity to learn from one of the best in the business. Tune in to the full episode of Growth Talks and discover how to transform your customers into your biggest fans.
You can find the book Fanocracy here:
https://amzn.to/3TpAiY1
📚 Suggested book:
https://amzn.to/48dOSGk
🛠 Suggested tool:
https://www.lately.ai/
👍 Follow our guest here:
https://www.fanocracy.com/
https://www.davidmeermanscott.com/
🧲 Watch my free lead generation course:
https://gaito.link/skillshare
🤖 Watch my free ChatGPT course:
https://skl.sh/3ZKHFcV
🙏 Subscribe to the channel:
https://gaito.link/subscribe
📚 Download the Reading List:
https://gaito.link/gtbooks
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Chile, everyone, and welcome backto growth Oks. I am rough your
host, and my guest today isDavid Merman Scott Hi, David, Hi
doing Hey chow it back to you. How's it going rough? I'm very
good. Actually, I'm very excitedabout this, this this episode. So
good of your work. As Itold you when I reached you for this,
(00:23):
you know, for this episode here. I really loved your books.
Thank you. This one is thisone is here, very kind of library.
So yeah, super excited about it. We usually start this conversation,
you know, with a simple onewith a with a classic question. So
who's David, What's what's your story? What's my story? I thought I
(00:47):
wanted to be a bond trader,so I worked on Wall Street for a
couple of years. I hated it, I really really it was not for
me. But I loved the informationthat bond traders used. And so I
spent the first part of my careerabout ten years working for companies like Dow
Jones and Reuter's, and I workedoutside the US. I was in Asia
(01:08):
for ten years, Tokyo and HongKong, and then in two thousand and
two I started my own thing,and I started to initially do some consulting,
but then I've written thirteen books sincethen have delivered presentations all over the
world. My books are in thirtylanguages. I've delivered presentations in more than
(01:29):
forty countries. And what I'm upto now is really focusing on the idea,
as you know, because you justheld the book up, about fandom
and how and why people become fansof something, and how that can be
an interesting way of framing the waythat a company does marketing away an individual
does marketing. And it's super excitingfor me to be able to do that.
(01:53):
Just last week, in fact,I was in Seoul, South Korea,
speaking at a conference that was organizedby the government of Korea about fandom
because, as you may know,Korean culture has become huge. The number
one show on Netflix, Squid Game, k pop pop music, Korean pop
(02:17):
music super popular, Korean movies superpopular. So the Korean government organized this
event to talk about fandom, andI was the keynote speaker. So it
was super cool and and I lovethis idea of how and why people become
fans of something. Wow, thifteenbooks, that's that's a lot. And
(02:40):
I remember I was a kid.When I started with your first one,
you were you were with be youknow, for the whole journey. So
oh, that's that's kind of kindof kind of you to say. So,
yeah, that's been I guess that'sbeen sixteen years now. Yeah,
wow, amazing. I love it. I have a few questions about this
(03:02):
one, and I want to start. You know, I remember that when
I both this one was a fewyears ago, and I remember now,
but uh, you know, therewas the title of phanocracy, but you
know, the the the the secondpart of the title, so the subtitle
was the the part that really triggeredsomething. I mean. So it's turning
(03:23):
fans into customers and customers into funds. And what I thought back in the
days, and what I want toask you is that usually, you know,
companies and businesses, smaller and bigones, they only think about the
first part, you know, turningthe funds into customers. So we have
I don't know, followers on Twitter, you know, on Instagram, on
(03:44):
YouTube, and we want them tobuy products and services from us. What
do you mean by, you know, turning customers into funds. That's for
me, the interesting part. Okay, cool, So I'll answer that in
a second. But we've spent alot of time trying to figure out that
title. Uh. As you know, I wrote the book with my daughter
(04:04):
Raco and uh and so we wanteda title and we ended up with Fanocracy
that had the word fan in itthat I could own the URL that could
be a word that I put intothe lexicon of marketers and business and entrepreneurs
and so on. So that tooksix months. We looked at a lot
(04:27):
of different titles and then I hadwe had no clue about a good subtitle,
and it was it was eventually ourpublisher who suggested the subtitle, and
as soon as we heard it,it's like, yeah, that's it.
That's perfect. So the idea ofturning customers into fans is when you have
a human relationship with your existing customers, you're developing that fandom. You're you're
(04:56):
you're engaging with customers in a waythat most companies do not. Most companies
treat you as a number. Youknow your customer number, and you know
you're just like any other customer,and people then treat the companies that they
do business with as interchangeable. Youknow, if it doesn't matter to you
(05:21):
what airline you fly. If itdoesn't matter to you what hotel you stay
in, if it doesn't matter toyou what kind of technology product you buy,
you're going to go with the cheapestor you're going to go with what's
considered the best quality. You're notgoing to go to the one that you're
a fan of. And it itmeans that you don't have any loyalty within
(05:45):
your business. And you know theopening story in the book, it's actually
actually not the opening story, butthe opening big case study that we share
is an insurance company. They're calledHaggarty and they do classic car auto insurance.
And what's interesting to me about thisis that sometimes people push back and
(06:09):
they say, Okay, David,fine. You know, if I'm running
a restaurant, I have fans.If I'm a musician, I have fans.
But we're a software company, wedon't have fans. Or we're an
insurance company, we don't have fans. I mean, people are constantly making
excuses for the fact that no,I don't want to have fans. Don't
I'm not running an organization that hasfans. So Haggarty is an insurance company.
(06:32):
They do car insurance and they haveliterally millions of fans because they've organized
their whole business around that second partof the subtitle, turning customers into fans.
They have a driver's club with overa million members, and when you're
a member of the Driver's Club,you have access to all of their data
(06:55):
on how much classic cars are worth. Because Haggarty insurance there's these classic cars,
so they know how much all ofthese different cars are worth. They
go to classic car shows and they'rethere with a booth where you can go
and spend time with Haggerty. Theyjust do a lot of different things.
They have a magazine that comes outsix times a year. They're doing a
(07:16):
lot of things to have to turncustomers into fans. Now what this means
is when you're a fan of Haggarty, you won't leave. You won't go
to another insurance company that says,hey, we're going to ensure your car
just like Haggarty and we're ten percentcheaper. Most people aren't going to do
(07:38):
that. They're going to stick withthe company that they are a fan of.
And in fact, I'm a customerof Haggarty. I have a nineteen
seventy three land Rover. It's beeninsured by Haggerty for more than ten years,
and just yesterday another insurance company approachedme and said, hey, we
can do your car, we'll doit cheaper. And I know sticking with
(07:59):
Haggerty and I had an opportunity tointerview Mkhil Haggerty, who's the CEO of
Haggerty Insurance, helped found the company, and he told me that, you
know, this is how we buildour business, David. It's totally based
on fandom. It's not based onyou know, we're not the cheapest,
we don't spend more money on advertisingthan the other guys, but we have
(08:20):
more fans. And in fact,they're the largest now classic carto insurance company
in the world, and they justwent public a couple of years ago in
the New York Stock Exchange. They'redoing really, really well, all based
on this idea of building fans.I know when you said that, you
know, sometimes companies they always havean excuse, so they say, oh,
(08:43):
no, you know, my companyis different, My I don't know,
my industry is different. So yeah, that's cool, but we can't
do that. Yes, exactly happensall the time. How do you reply
to someone that says that, andwhat's the first step so if you want
to really make them on the sendthat they can actually do that, they
(09:03):
can build a fundo. I alwaysI always come back to examples. I
love love love sharing examples of peoplewho have built fans in If I have
an example in the industry that theperson's in, I might cite that one.
(09:24):
And so when I talk about autoinsurance, I say to people,
do you love car insurance? Andnobody says yes. I mean, it's
a terrible product. Right. Youhave to spend money on car insurance.
It's expensive. You know, inthis country, it's several thousand dollars a
year to ensure your car. Soit's no fun to pay that money.
Furthermore, you never want to usethe product because it means you crashed your
(09:48):
car. What a terrible product,right, And if Haggarty, an insurance
company, can develop millions of fans, well there's proof right there. The
other thing I like to suggest isthat we found a US government agency that
has nearly that has one hundred millionfans. It's NASA. And what's interesting
(10:13):
about NASA they are literally part ofthe US government. Most people are like,
the government has fans, what areyou talking about? But yeah,
there's nearly one hundred million followers ofNASA's Instagram. People wear NASA T shirts.
I mean, it's super interesting thatpeople are fans of NASA. And
I have one more example to shareabout this idea of anybody can create fans.
(10:39):
I speak at Tony Robbin's business masteryevents around the world, and I
was speaking at an event several yearsago and a dentist came up to me.
He's a dentist in southern California.His name is doctor John Mrashi.
And doctor Marashi said to me,David, I just heard your speech about
(11:00):
fandom, and I understand this ideaof fandom, But I'm a dentist.
What are you talking about? Howcan I have fans? You know,
people just come the dentist get theirteeth cleaned. You know, why would
they become a fan? And Isaid, well, doctor Murashi, most
dentists, and in fact, becauseyou do it, most clients of dentists
(11:22):
will think of a dentist as acommodity. You know, one dentist and
the other one down the street areessentially the same. But what makes you
different? What are you passionate about? What are the things that you love
to do, maybe we can makeyou stand out as a unique dentist.
And now he practices in Southern Californiaand there's you know, ten thousand or
(11:48):
more dentists in Southern California. Andso he said to me, David,
I love to skateboard. And I'mlike, oh, well that's cool.
Let's figure out how we can shareyour love of skateboarding within your dental practice.
So what doctor Murashi did after wespoke about this, after my talk,
was he puts skateboards on the wall. You know here, I've got
(12:11):
a surfboard on my wall. He'sgot skateboards on his wall. In his
dental practice. Sometimes he'll skateboard fromone examination room to another. He's never
on a skateboard when he actually doesdentistry, but he will skateboard from one
office to another. He then hasan Instagram with last time I checked,
(12:33):
I think it was over thirty millionfollowers for a dentist, and he shares
skateboarding videos and skateboarding photographs. He'sgot on his website pictures of him skateboarding.
So now he's completely changed the waythat dentists communicate, because most dentists
(12:56):
it's all about hey, you know, I'm a professional. Here's where I
went to school, and you knowthat's it. But doctor Marashi is,
yeah, I'm a dentist, butI'm also I loved a skateboard and skateboarding
is a very important part of mylife. And you walk into the office,
there's skateboards. You see their website, there's skateboards and him skateboarding,
(13:16):
and his instagram is him skateboarding.About a year after we had that discussion
and he implemented these ideas, hereached out to me and said, David,
you're not going to believe this,but I've had a thirty percent growth
in new patients and a twenty threepercent growth in revenue in my business that
(13:37):
I can attribute every one of thosepercentages to the idea that I just shared
that I that I love the skateboard. And it's because people become a fan
of the dentist who's passionate about skateboarding. And it's not because they are a
skateboarder, it's because they're passionate.They recognize is his passion for skateboarding.
(14:01):
And then if somebody says, hey, who's your dentist, I'm thinking about
changing dentists. Oh, my god, My guy's great. He's a skateboarder.
Check him out, doctor John Marashi. So check out his instagram if
you want to, if you wantto see how that's done. But turning
customers into fans, and in thiscase turning fans into customers, it's super
cool. Wow. So what wouldyou say, are like the first steps?
(14:26):
So if maybe's you know, anybusiness owner listening to this episode and
they say, oh, this iscool. I'm a dentist or you know,
something similar, and I always thoughtthat that was impossible for me,
but now I know that I canactually do. What are the first steps?
Maybe the first step is trying tobe unique or something. Before you
(14:48):
even do that, I would getrid of everything on your website and in
your social media that's generic. Sowhat I mean by that is, if
you're using stock photos on your website, get rid of them. If you're
using the same language as everybody else, get rid of it. You know,
many people, when they describe theircompany in English, if they're a
(15:13):
technology company, use words like flexible, scalable, cutting edge, mission critical,
innovative, words like that. Whateverlanguage your website is in, eliminate
the words that everybody uses and ratherspeak in the way that your buyers speak.
That if you want to build fans, speak in the way that your
(15:35):
fans speak, and write in theways that your fans would read. And
get rid of that stock those stockphotographs are any stock videos, because you
don't want to be seen as generic. So that's the first step. And
you can literally do that today.You know, you can finish this uh
this podcast, close the podcast app, and then all of a sudden you
(15:56):
can get rid of the generics onyour website. In the case of doctor
John Marashi, he shares what he'spassionate about, and I'm doing that now.
I've got a Grateful Dead logo overmy right shoulder. If you're watching
on video, you can see it. If you're only listening, it's a
(16:17):
big logo over my shoulder. Ilove the band the Grateful Dead. I've
seen them ninety eight times. Iwrote a book called Marketing Lessons from the
Grateful Dead. So I'm proud toshare right here, right now that I'm
a fan of the Grateful Dead.I've also got a surfboard that I built
myself at a company called Grain Surfboards. Huge fan of what Grain Surfboards is
(16:37):
doing. I love to surf,and I love to share the passion for
my surfing, So I'm sharing thethings I love. How can you share
what you're passionate about? Or ifthere's many people in your organization, how
can you show their humanity by showcasingwhat they're passionate about? And then and
you could start doing that like youdid, then be thinking about the kind
(17:03):
of content that you can create andpush out there that will be valuable to
the people you're trying to reach andcan help them to become your fan.
And I mentioned Haggarty earlier, butthey've got a YouTube channel with over a
million subscribers, They've got a magazinethat comes up six times a year.
They have a database of values ofclassic cars that you can look at if
(17:29):
you become a member of the HaggartyDrivers Club. So they've focused on this
idea of what kind of content canwe create, video, written content,
data that will help to grow fans. So that would be another step to
think about. But what it allcomes down to you if you make it.
What are all of these things havein common. It's bringing a humanity
(17:52):
to what you do. It's recognizingthat people want to do business with people
rather then people want to do businesswith just a technology number or something.
So that's what it comes down to. How can you humanize what you do?
If you are enjoying this episode,please check out my lead generation course.
(18:14):
You can watch it for free onGuido, dot link, slash skill
Share. G A I t O. As an entrepreneur, marketer or business
owner, you know how crucial leadgeneration is. In this course, I'll
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(18:34):
dot link, slash skill Share.G A I t Oh. You'll find
the link in the description. Andhave you seen any let's say, common
mistakes that you know small business orbig companies they do when they try to
start. You know, this processsomething that everyone is like, you know,
(18:56):
this is a classic mistake and howto avoid it? Yeah, the
biggest mistake I see, and I'veseen it for twenty years. It happens
all the time, every single day. I see examples of this is only
talking about your products and services.I don't know what it is with entrepreneurs
or marketing people or salespeople, butthey tend to default to product. You
(19:21):
know, here's what I do.Here's my product, you know, whatever
it might be. You know,you're a dentist. Oh, I can
clean your teeth. I can fixyour teeth. That's the product. But
you need to go to the nextstep. And so the biggest mistake is
talking way too much about your productor your service, because ultimately people don't
(19:47):
care about your product or service.What they care about themselves and solving their
problems. So that's what you needto focus on. Yeah, I love
it. I have a few noteshere, a couple of questions that I
have year let me find one wasat the beginning. So there is this
(20:10):
great example. The company is calledBrookline book Smith, and you say,
instead of just selling the product booksin their case, uh, they serve
as a hub of its local community, facilitating you know, discussions around book
and you know whatever, blah blahblah everything else. Uh. And I
(20:33):
was thinking, you know, whenI was reading this part here that for
example, this is an industry whereeveryone is scared of, you know,
Amazon, because Amazon is the bigone. So it's impossible to compete with
Amazon. But you actually show thatthere is a way to compete, and
it's not you know, competing onthe price, but it's on something different,
the building experience, not the dthe the community and and everything else.
(20:59):
Can you tell us it'll be moreabout the ideas. Sure, yeah,
sure. So. Brookline Booksmith isa bookstore located in one of the
neighborhoods of Boston near where I live. And they've got a big bookstore that's
physically located in the hub of thiscommunity. And there's restaurants nearby, there's
(21:22):
coffee shops nearby, and so there'sa lot of people who walk around this
particular neighborhood and many of them willgo into Brookline Booksmith just to take a
look around. So they've organized itas a place that you can go and
just and just browse and just takea look. The people who work there
(21:45):
are extremely knowledgeable about books, andyou can, you know, you can
ask suggestions of them that you can'treally get with something like Amazon. You
can get the algorithmics suggestions from Amazon, but not talking to a real person,
so that's a big difference. Theyhave more than two hundred book events
(22:08):
every year, and we launched Fanocracyactually in Brookline Booksmith during an event that
we held there, and people loveto go and meet the author of a
book of books that they love,and so these are big can be really
big events with really famous authors orsmall events with a niche author, and
(22:32):
so they do a great job ofbringing the community together around those events.
And then something that to me isquite remarkable is that, you know,
building on this community. Aspect ofwhat Brookline Booksmith does is that they've got
the room where they hold their events. It's in the basement of the bookstore.
(22:52):
They allow book clubs to use thespace for free, and those book
clubs have no affiliation with Brookline Booksmith. They're just allowing a book club,
you know, book lovers getting togetherto talk about a book to use the
space. They don't even have tobuy the book that they're discussing from Brookline
Booksmith. They could buy it anAmazon, bring it in. That's fine.
(23:15):
They're providing that space. So essentially, what they've done is they've looked
at Amazon and so what are thethings Amazon does. Well, they'll deliver
a book, it's a low price. And they said, let's do the
opposite. Let's make a community,a physical place you can go and do
everything we can to build that physicalcommunity and meantime, when other bookstores have
(23:36):
tended to be closing over the yearssince Amazon has risen in its power,
Brookline Booksmith is actually expanding and havinggreat years as there as they're doing this
this way of building fans. Thisis a powerful idea. Do you think
that it can be somehow, youknow, use an in you know,
(24:00):
in different context, in different industry. So if I work in a different
industry and in my industry is likea huge, big company, you know,
the main competitor that everyone is scaredof. Uh, do you think
this idea can work also in adifferent context or in a different industry.
I do. I think one ofthe things that they've hit on is this
(24:23):
idea of proximity between people. Andthat's actually something that my daughter and I
my co author in the book Fanocracy. My daughter and I did a bunch
of research on We spoke with neuroscientistsabout this idea that we humans like to
be in close proximity nearby other humans, especially if they're part of a group
(24:49):
of people that we like. Thatthat's super a super powerful idea of bringing
people together. Life comminded people toshare in something. So what the Brookline
Booksmith understood. Maybe they didn't understandthe neuroscience behind it, but what they
(25:10):
understood is if you bring people togetherfor book events, if you bring people
together to share a love of books, if you bring people together who are
part of book clubs, those humanconnections one person to another are super powerful.
And then people remember, oh,I had that connection at Brookline booksmith
(25:30):
and so they have very positive feelingsof that particular location and will want to
go back to have more of thosehuman connections. So any business can be
thinking about how can I bring peopletogether physically so that they're literally able to
talk with one another, be nearone another, to be able to share
(25:53):
a like minded experience. Another exampleof this idea A company that I've been
associated with now for I think seventeenyears is HubSpot. So. HubSpot is
a sales marketing and customer services technologycompany and they provide CRM style systems that
(26:15):
help companies to grow their businesses.And I joined their advisory board way back
in two thousand and seven when HubSpotwas only a handful of people and only
a quarter of a million dollars inrevenue, and I've been advising them in
part of their advisory board since thenand now they're going to generate something like
(26:37):
two and a half billion dollars inthe next year and they have seven thousand
employees. They're growing like crazy.And what HubSpot does is they have an
annual conference. It's held in Boston, and this past year they had I
think it was twelve thousand people inperson, and then one hundred thousand people
(27:02):
virtually. But that in person groupof twelve thousand people plus they have much
smaller events in other parts of theworld. They have offices in many different
countries. Bringing those people together whoare customers of HubSpot, or who are
fans of HubSpot but not yet customers, bringing them together into a conference where
(27:26):
they can meet one another and shareideas physically in person, super super great
way to build fans. So anythingthat you can do, whatever kind of
business you run, if you canbring people physically together so that they're in
the same room is a super powerfulway to build fans. And how important
(27:48):
is the physical aspect of it.I mean, now you know everyone is
talking about metabs in the last coupleof years. Is this something? Is
it a good alternative or it's importantThey have to be physically in the same
room you know, close to eachother. When this happens, it physically
(28:12):
in the same room is super superpowerful. So if you have a way
to do that, it's important totry to do it. There are alternatives,
like we're doing one right now.Video video can be an alternative and
it goes back to another form ofneuroscience. It's called mirror neurons. I'll
(28:34):
demonstrate this idea for you right now. So mirror neurons are the part of
our brain which fires when we seesomebody do something, and our brain is
firing as if we're doing it ourself. So this is an important concept to
understand around the idea of having avirtual connection with fans. So remember that
(28:57):
having a physical connection in the sameroom is the best. But if you
can't have a physical connection, havinga virtual connection on video it can be
super powerful. So let me demonstratethe idea of mirror neurons. When my
brain fires, I feel at bigtime. However, if you see somebody
(29:18):
do something, your brain can firetoo. I've got a lemon, and
I've got a slice of lemon.If I take a bite of the slice
of lemon, wow, super powerful. My eyes close, I can feel
the lemon on my tongue and onmy lips, and wow, it's really
powerful to bite into a lemon.Rafer you feeling a lemon? Two?
(29:41):
Isn't that weird? Right? Sothat's mirror neurons. So where it becomes
valuable for building fans is doing exactlywhat we're doing right now by having video
where you're looking directly at the cameralike we're like we're doing now, and
(30:02):
it's cropped as if you are nearbysomebody like I'm standing right now, So
my video is cropped as if we'rehaving a conversation standing up, you know,
maybe at a party or something.I think you're sitting down, is
that right? Yeah, So whenyou're sitting down like you are, and
(30:23):
you've cropped in a perfect way,it's like you're sitting across from somebody at
a restaurant to or a bar,and our brain because of mirror neurons.
I showed you the example of thelemon, and those of you who are
only listening, I held up alemon, and maybe even your mouth is
(30:44):
tasting a lemon too, and youdidn't even see it. You just heard
me talking about it, but yourbrain began to fire too. So now
when you're seeing video like we're doingright now on video, and if you're
not watching both of the videos areI mean you're not on video just listening
to both of the videos are croppedas if you are in the same room
with me and raf. Is thatour brains process as we're literally in the
(31:10):
same room. Now. Intellectually youknow you're not in the same room as
that person they're on video, butyour brain processes it as if you are.
And this is exactly why you feelas though you personally know a movie
star or an actor because you've seenthem on TV. Your brain thinks that
(31:30):
you are friends with that person.So long way of saying, if you
cannot get your customers into the samephysical, physical room, maybe you can
use video, create a video podcast, interview customers and share it on a
YouTube channel or another video channel.Put video on your website. Even photographs,
(31:55):
put them on your website, croppedas if you're in the same room,
casually shot looking directly at the camera, exactly like we're creating right now.
So you're building fans rapp by justby doing this, this this the
growth talks that you're putting together,you're building fans. I have another one
from from the book. Uh,you know, there are a lot of
(32:20):
good example, but there is also, let's say, a bad example,
and it's the one about you know, there was this statement from Adobe Photoshop,
so you know that the way peoplecould use the brand and the way
that was not allowed to use thebrand. And what's interesting here is the
(32:44):
fact that you know, I'm readingfrom the book, so every incorrect statement
sounds like a fan of Adobe Photoshopsoftware, while every correct statement sounds like
a robot. And this is sotrue and all, and it's so common.
I mean, it's a very commonmistake. How can we avoid that?
(33:07):
So where the reason that this happenedis that the branding people at Adobe,
makers of Photoshop and other software products, we're trying to control the way
that their customers talk about their productsand services, and they're saying, you
(33:30):
can say it this way, butnot this way. That's a big mistake.
Because what we learned as we dida bunch of research about fandom,
and I keep saying we and mydaughter wrote the book with me, is
that if once you put your productor service or art out there, it
no longer belongs to you. Itnow belongs to your fans, and you
(33:54):
need to let go of your creations. You need to understand that if a
fan wants to talk about you andtheir own words, that should be great.
You should let that happen and don'ttry to control that conversation because if
you're trying to control that conversation,you're going to you're going to to actually
(34:17):
put brakes on the idea of fandomand people will be less likely to be
your fans because you're trying to dictateto them what they can and can't do.
So Adobe kind of screwed that oneup. They actively discouraged people from
talking about photoshop in the way theywanted to and try to control the message,
(34:40):
and then people get frustrated and theywon't talk about you, or they'll
say negative things about you. So, you know, let people share in
the way they want to share.I love it. These are very powerful
idea. Yeah, I love it, David. We usually end these conversations
here on the podcas with two quickquestions. So if you have any cool
(35:06):
books that you want to share withus, of course your book is going
to be linked in the description below, But have you read something in the
last couple of I don't know yearssomething that was really I don't know a
good book that you want to sharewith my audience something marketing related, but
also I don't know a novel orwhatever. Yeah, so I really like
(35:34):
to learn about ideas that I canapply to marketing, but from different industries.
I read very few marketing books,very few business books. I tend
to read books from other industries andapply it to marketing. So a great
example of a book like that isby David Byrne. And David Byrne is
(35:59):
the lead singer of the Talking Headsrock band, and he has a book
called How Music Works, and HowMusic Works is a great overview of his
career but also music going all theway back to the Middle Ages. And
(36:22):
I found it super interesting as away to learn about music as a non
musician. That can then I canapply some of those ideas to marketing.
Nice. Uh, you'll find alink in the description as well of this
one. And what about tools?Do you have any useful and cool tool
(36:45):
that you use in your day today routine in your job, something that
you want to share with us?Sure? A tool I really like is
called lately lately dot ai, andlately dot Ai is a software tool where
I can take long form content thatI create and instantly turn it into short
(37:08):
form content, which then I canshare on my social networks. So specifically,
the way will it works is Ican take a chapter of Fanocracy,
for example, or I can takea blog post that I've written, drop
it into Lately, and then Latelywe'll create ten or twenty or thirty LinkedIn
(37:30):
posts or tweets, and then Ican schedule those through Lately to go out
once a day or you know,twice a week or whatever schedule I want
automatically be shared. So it savesme a ton of time and increases the
number of social posts that I do. And critically important, it's my content,
(37:53):
you know, It's not like chat, GPT making something up. It's
literally my content turning long form contentin the short form content lately AI great.
I love it. And lastly,do you want to share with us
where they can find you, readyou, follow you, any links?
(38:13):
Absolutely so, We've got a greatwebsite at fanocracy dot com. If you
want to learn more about that book, I've got a website David Meerman Scott
dot com. And then most ofthe social networks, I am d M.
Scott, D M. S CO T T cool great. Every
(38:34):
link is going to be in thedescription below. David, thank you very
much for your time. This wasmy pleasure. Thanks Rav, good to
talk to you you. Thanks forlistening to this episode of the podcast.
I hope you enjoyed it and youlearn something new. Make sure to subscribe
to us on YouTube and Spotify tostay updated on new episodes. With your
support, I can continue to bringgreat content and great guests to this podcast.
(38:59):
So hit this subscribe button now andI'll see you in the next episode.
Chile, everyone, and welcome backto growth Oks. I am rough your
host, and my guest today isDavid Merman Scott Hi, David, Hi
doing Hey chow it back to you. How's it going rough? I'm very
good. Actually, I'm very excitedabout this, this this episode. So
good of your work. As Itold you when I reached you for this,
(00:23):
you know, for this episode here. I really loved your books.
Thank you. This one is thisone is here, very kind of library.
So yeah, super excited about it. We usually start this conversation,
you know, with a simple onewith a with a classic question. So
who's David, What's what's your story? What's my story? I thought I
(00:47):
wanted to be a bond trader,so I worked on Wall Street for a
couple of years. I hated it, I really really it was not for
me. But I loved the informationthat bond traders used. And so I
spent the first part of my careerabout ten years working for companies like Dow
Jones and Reuter's, and I workedoutside the US. I was in Asia
(01:08):
for ten years, Tokyo and HongKong, and then in two thousand and
two I started my own thing,and I started to initially do some consulting,
but then I've written thirteen books sincethen have delivered presentations all over the
world. My books are in thirtylanguages. I've delivered presentations in more than
(01:29):
forty countries. And what I'm upto now is really focusing on the idea,
as you know, because you justheld the book up, about fandom
and how and why people become fansof something, and how that can be
an interesting way of framing the waythat a company does marketing away an individual
does marketing. And it's super excitingfor me to be able to do that.
(01:53):
Just last week, in fact,I was in Seoul, South Korea,
speaking at a conference that was organizedby the government of Korea about fandom
because, as you may know,Korean culture has become huge. The number
one show on Netflix, Squid Game, k pop pop music, Korean pop
(02:17):
music super popular, Korean movies superpopular. So the Korean government organized this
event to talk about fandom, andI was the keynote speaker. So it
was super cool and and I lovethis idea of how and why people become
fans of something. Wow, thifteenbooks, that's that's a lot. And
(02:40):
I remember I was a kid.When I started with your first one,
you were you were with be youknow, for the whole journey. So
oh, that's that's kind of kindof kind of you to say. So,
yeah, that's been I guess that'sbeen sixteen years now. Yeah,
wow, amazing. I love it. I have a few questions about this
(03:02):
one, and I want to start. You know, I remember that when
I both this one was a fewyears ago, and I remember now,
but uh, you know, therewas the title of phanocracy, but you
know, the the the the secondpart of the title, so the subtitle
was the the part that really triggeredsomething. I mean. So it's turning
(03:23):
fans into customers and customers into funds. And what I thought back in the
days, and what I want toask you is that usually, you know,
companies and businesses, smaller and bigones, they only think about the
first part, you know, turningthe funds into customers. So we have
I don't know, followers on Twitter, you know, on Instagram, on
(03:44):
YouTube, and we want them tobuy products and services from us. What
do you mean by, you know, turning customers into funds. That's for
me, the interesting part. Okay, cool, So I'll answer that in
a second. But we've spent alot of time trying to figure out that
title. Uh. As you know, I wrote the book with my daughter
(04:04):
Raco and uh and so we wanteda title and we ended up with Fanocracy
that had the word fan in itthat I could own the URL that could
be a word that I put intothe lexicon of marketers and business and entrepreneurs
and so on. So that tooksix months. We looked at a lot
(04:27):
of different titles and then I hadwe had no clue about a good subtitle,
and it was it was eventually ourpublisher who suggested the subtitle, and
as soon as we heard it,it's like, yeah, that's it.
That's perfect. So the idea ofturning customers into fans is when you have
a human relationship with your existing customers, you're developing that fandom. You're you're
(04:56):
you're engaging with customers in a waythat most companies do not. Most companies
treat you as a number. Youknow your customer number, and you know
you're just like any other customer,and people then treat the companies that they
do business with as interchangeable. Youknow, if it doesn't matter to you
(05:21):
what airline you fly. If itdoesn't matter to you what hotel you stay
in, if it doesn't matter toyou what kind of technology product you buy,
you're going to go with the cheapestor you're going to go with what's
considered the best quality. You're notgoing to go to the one that you're
a fan of. And it itmeans that you don't have any loyalty within
(05:45):
your business. And you know theopening story in the book, it's actually
actually not the opening story, butthe opening big case study that we share
is an insurance company. They're calledHaggarty and they do classic car auto insurance.
And what's interesting to me about thisis that sometimes people push back and
(06:09):
they say, Okay, David,fine. You know, if I'm running
a restaurant, I have fans.If I'm a musician, I have fans.
But we're a software company, wedon't have fans. Or we're an
insurance company, we don't have fans. I mean, people are constantly making
excuses for the fact that no,I don't want to have fans. Don't
I'm not running an organization that hasfans. So Haggarty is an insurance company.
(06:32):
They do car insurance and they haveliterally millions of fans because they've organized
their whole business around that second partof the subtitle, turning customers into fans.
They have a driver's club with overa million members, and when you're
a member of the Driver's Club,you have access to all of their data
(06:55):
on how much classic cars are worth. Because Haggarty insurance there's these classic cars,
so they know how much all ofthese different cars are worth. They
go to classic car shows and they'rethere with a booth where you can go
and spend time with Haggerty. Theyjust do a lot of different things.
They have a magazine that comes outsix times a year. They're doing a
(07:16):
lot of things to have to turncustomers into fans. Now what this means
is when you're a fan of Haggarty, you won't leave. You won't go
to another insurance company that says,hey, we're going to ensure your car
just like Haggarty and we're ten percentcheaper. Most people aren't going to do
(07:38):
that. They're going to stick withthe company that they are a fan of.
And in fact, I'm a customerof Haggarty. I have a nineteen
seventy three land Rover. It's beeninsured by Haggerty for more than ten years,
and just yesterday another insurance company approachedme and said, hey, we
can do your car, we'll doit cheaper. And I know sticking with
(07:59):
Haggerty and I had an opportunity tointerview Mkhil Haggerty, who's the CEO of
Haggerty Insurance, helped found the company, and he told me that, you
know, this is how we buildour business, David. It's totally based
on fandom. It's not based onyou know, we're not the cheapest,
we don't spend more money on advertisingthan the other guys, but we have
(08:20):
more fans. And in fact,they're the largest now classic carto insurance company
in the world, and they justwent public a couple of years ago in
the New York Stock Exchange. They'redoing really, really well, all based
on this idea of building fans.I know when you said that, you
know, sometimes companies they always havean excuse, so they say, oh,
(08:43):
no, you know, my companyis different, My I don't know,
my industry is different. So yeah, that's cool, but we can't
do that. Yes, exactly happensall the time. How do you reply
to someone that says that, andwhat's the first step so if you want
to really make them on the sendthat they can actually do that, they
(09:03):
can build a fundo. I alwaysI always come back to examples. I
love love love sharing examples of peoplewho have built fans in If I have
an example in the industry that theperson's in, I might cite that one.
(09:24):
And so when I talk about autoinsurance, I say to people,
do you love car insurance? Andnobody says yes. I mean, it's
a terrible product. Right. Youhave to spend money on car insurance.
It's expensive. You know, inthis country, it's several thousand dollars a
year to ensure your car. Soit's no fun to pay that money.
Furthermore, you never want to usethe product because it means you crashed your
(09:48):
car. What a terrible product,right, And if Haggarty, an insurance
company, can develop millions of fans, well there's proof right there. The
other thing I like to suggest isthat we found a US government agency that
has nearly that has one hundred millionfans. It's NASA. And what's interesting
(10:13):
about NASA they are literally part ofthe US government. Most people are like,
the government has fans, what areyou talking about? But yeah,
there's nearly one hundred million followers ofNASA's Instagram. People wear NASA T shirts.
I mean, it's super interesting thatpeople are fans of NASA. And
I have one more example to shareabout this idea of anybody can create fans.
(10:39):
I speak at Tony Robbin's business masteryevents around the world, and I
was speaking at an event several yearsago and a dentist came up to me.
He's a dentist in southern California.His name is doctor John Mrashi.
And doctor Marashi said to me,David, I just heard your speech about
(11:00):
fandom, and I understand this ideaof fandom, But I'm a dentist.
What are you talking about? Howcan I have fans? You know,
people just come the dentist get theirteeth cleaned. You know, why would
they become a fan? And Isaid, well, doctor Murashi, most
dentists, and in fact, becauseyou do it, most clients of dentists
(11:22):
will think of a dentist as acommodity. You know, one dentist and
the other one down the street areessentially the same. But what makes you
different? What are you passionate about? What are the things that you love
to do, maybe we can makeyou stand out as a unique dentist.
And now he practices in Southern Californiaand there's you know, ten thousand or
(11:48):
more dentists in Southern California. Andso he said to me, David,
I love to skateboard. And I'mlike, oh, well that's cool.
Let's figure out how we can shareyour love of skateboarding within your dental practice.
So what doctor Murashi did after wespoke about this, after my talk,
was he puts skateboards on the wall. You know here, I've got
(12:11):
a surfboard on my wall. He'sgot skateboards on his wall. In his
dental practice. Sometimes he'll skateboard fromone examination room to another. He's never
on a skateboard when he actually doesdentistry, but he will skateboard from one
office to another. He then hasan Instagram with last time I checked,
(12:33):
I think it was over thirty millionfollowers for a dentist, and he shares
skateboarding videos and skateboarding photographs. He'sgot on his website pictures of him skateboarding.
So now he's completely changed the waythat dentists communicate, because most dentists
(12:56):
it's all about hey, you know, I'm a professional. Here's where I
went to school, and you knowthat's it. But doctor Marashi is,
yeah, I'm a dentist, butI'm also I loved a skateboard and skateboarding
is a very important part of mylife. And you walk into the office,
there's skateboards. You see their website, there's skateboards and him skateboarding,
(13:16):
and his instagram is him skateboarding.About a year after we had that discussion
and he implemented these ideas, hereached out to me and said, David,
you're not going to believe this,but I've had a thirty percent growth
in new patients and a twenty threepercent growth in revenue in my business that
(13:37):
I can attribute every one of thosepercentages to the idea that I just shared
that I that I love the skateboard. And it's because people become a fan
of the dentist who's passionate about skateboarding. And it's not because they are a
skateboarder, it's because they're passionate.They recognize is his passion for skateboarding.
(14:01):
And then if somebody says, hey, who's your dentist, I'm thinking about
changing dentists. Oh, my god, My guy's great. He's a skateboarder.
Check him out, doctor John Marashi. So check out his instagram if
you want to, if you wantto see how that's done. But turning
customers into fans, and in thiscase turning fans into customers, it's super
cool. Wow. So what wouldyou say, are like the first steps?
(14:26):
So if maybe's you know, anybusiness owner listening to this episode and
they say, oh, this iscool. I'm a dentist or you know,
something similar, and I always thoughtthat that was impossible for me,
but now I know that I canactually do. What are the first steps?
Maybe the first step is trying tobe unique or something. Before you
(14:48):
even do that, I would getrid of everything on your website and in
your social media that's generic. Sowhat I mean by that is, if
you're using stock photos on your website, get rid of them. If you're
using the same language as everybody else, get rid of it. You know,
many people, when they describe theircompany in English, if they're a
(15:13):
technology company, use words like flexible, scalable, cutting edge, mission critical,
innovative, words like that. Whateverlanguage your website is in, eliminate
the words that everybody uses and ratherspeak in the way that your buyers speak.
That if you want to build fans, speak in the way that your
(15:35):
fans speak, and write in theways that your fans would read. And
get rid of that stock those stockphotographs are any stock videos, because you
don't want to be seen as generic. So that's the first step. And
you can literally do that today.You know, you can finish this uh
this podcast, close the podcast app, and then all of a sudden you
(15:56):
can get rid of the generics onyour website. In the case of doctor
John Marashi, he shares what he'spassionate about, and I'm doing that now.
I've got a Grateful Dead logo overmy right shoulder. If you're watching
on video, you can see it. If you're only listening, it's a
(16:17):
big logo over my shoulder. Ilove the band the Grateful Dead. I've
seen them ninety eight times. Iwrote a book called Marketing Lessons from the
Grateful Dead. So I'm proud toshare right here, right now that I'm
a fan of the Grateful Dead.I've also got a surfboard that I built
myself at a company called Grain Surfboards. Huge fan of what Grain Surfboards is
(16:37):
doing. I love to surf,and I love to share the passion for
my surfing, So I'm sharing thethings I love. How can you share
what you're passionate about? Or ifthere's many people in your organization, how
can you show their humanity by showcasingwhat they're passionate about? And then and
you could start doing that like youdid, then be thinking about the kind
(17:03):
of content that you can create andpush out there that will be valuable to
the people you're trying to reach andcan help them to become your fan.
And I mentioned Haggarty earlier, butthey've got a YouTube channel with over a
million subscribers, They've got a magazinethat comes up six times a year.
They have a database of values ofclassic cars that you can look at if
(17:29):
you become a member of the HaggartyDrivers Club. So they've focused on this
idea of what kind of content canwe create, video, written content,
data that will help to grow fans. So that would be another step to
think about. But what it allcomes down to you if you make it.
What are all of these things havein common. It's bringing a humanity
(17:52):
to what you do. It's recognizingthat people want to do business with people
rather then people want to do businesswith just a technology number or something.
So that's what it comes down to. How can you humanize what you do?
If you are enjoying this episode,please check out my lead generation course.
(18:14):
You can watch it for free onGuido, dot link, slash skill
Share. G A I t O. As an entrepreneur, marketer or business
owner, you know how crucial leadgeneration is. In this course, I'll
be sharing with you twenty proven tacticsfor lead generation in both B two B
and B two C markets. Youcan watch it for free on Guido,
(18:34):
dot link, slash skill Share.G A I t Oh. You'll find
the link in the description. Andhave you seen any let's say, common
mistakes that you know small business orbig companies they do when they try to
start. You know, this processsomething that everyone is like, you know,
(18:56):
this is a classic mistake and howto avoid it? Yeah, the
biggest mistake I see, and I'veseen it for twenty years. It happens
all the time, every single day. I see examples of this is only
talking about your products and services.I don't know what it is with entrepreneurs
or marketing people or salespeople, butthey tend to default to product. You
(19:21):
know, here's what I do.Here's my product, you know, whatever
it might be. You know,you're a dentist. Oh, I can
clean your teeth. I can fixyour teeth. That's the product. But
you need to go to the nextstep. And so the biggest mistake is
talking way too much about your productor your service, because ultimately people don't
(19:47):
care about your product or service.What they care about themselves and solving their
problems. So that's what you needto focus on. Yeah, I love
it. I have a few noteshere, a couple of questions that I
have year let me find one wasat the beginning. So there is this
(20:10):
great example. The company is calledBrookline book Smith, and you say,
instead of just selling the product booksin their case, uh, they serve
as a hub of its local community, facilitating you know, discussions around book
and you know whatever, blah blahblah everything else. Uh. And I
(20:33):
was thinking, you know, whenI was reading this part here that for
example, this is an industry whereeveryone is scared of, you know,
Amazon, because Amazon is the bigone. So it's impossible to compete with
Amazon. But you actually show thatthere is a way to compete, and
it's not you know, competing onthe price, but it's on something different,
the building experience, not the dthe the community and and everything else.
(20:59):
Can you tell us it'll be moreabout the ideas. Sure, yeah,
sure. So. Brookline Booksmith isa bookstore located in one of the
neighborhoods of Boston near where I live. And they've got a big bookstore that's
physically located in the hub of thiscommunity. And there's restaurants nearby, there's
(21:22):
coffee shops nearby, and so there'sa lot of people who walk around this
particular neighborhood and many of them willgo into Brookline Booksmith just to take a
look around. So they've organized itas a place that you can go and
just and just browse and just takea look. The people who work there
(21:45):
are extremely knowledgeable about books, andyou can, you know, you can
ask suggestions of them that you can'treally get with something like Amazon. You
can get the algorithmics suggestions from Amazon, but not talking to a real person,
so that's a big difference. Theyhave more than two hundred book events
(22:08):
every year, and we launched Fanocracyactually in Brookline Booksmith during an event that
we held there, and people loveto go and meet the author of a
book of books that they love,and so these are big can be really
big events with really famous authors orsmall events with a niche author, and
(22:32):
so they do a great job ofbringing the community together around those events.
And then something that to me isquite remarkable is that, you know,
building on this community. Aspect ofwhat Brookline Booksmith does is that they've got
the room where they hold their events. It's in the basement of the bookstore.
(22:52):
They allow book clubs to use thespace for free, and those book
clubs have no affiliation with Brookline Booksmith. They're just allowing a book club,
you know, book lovers getting togetherto talk about a book to use the
space. They don't even have tobuy the book that they're discussing from Brookline
Booksmith. They could buy it anAmazon, bring it in. That's fine.
(23:15):
They're providing that space. So essentially, what they've done is they've looked
at Amazon and so what are thethings Amazon does. Well, they'll deliver
a book, it's a low price. And they said, let's do the
opposite. Let's make a community,a physical place you can go and do
everything we can to build that physicalcommunity and meantime, when other bookstores have
(23:36):
tended to be closing over the yearssince Amazon has risen in its power,
Brookline Booksmith is actually expanding and havinggreat years as there as they're doing this
this way of building fans. Thisis a powerful idea. Do you think
that it can be somehow, youknow, use an in you know,
(24:00):
in different context, in different industry. So if I work in a different
industry and in my industry is likea huge, big company, you know,
the main competitor that everyone is scaredof. Uh, do you think
this idea can work also in adifferent context or in a different industry.
I do. I think one ofthe things that they've hit on is this
(24:23):
idea of proximity between people. Andthat's actually something that my daughter and I
my co author in the book Fanocracy. My daughter and I did a bunch
of research on We spoke with neuroscientistsabout this idea that we humans like to
be in close proximity nearby other humans, especially if they're part of a group
(24:49):
of people that we like. Thatthat's super a super powerful idea of bringing
people together. Life comminded people toshare in something. So what the Brookline
Booksmith understood. Maybe they didn't understandthe neuroscience behind it, but what they
(25:10):
understood is if you bring people togetherfor book events, if you bring people
together to share a love of books, if you bring people together who are
part of book clubs, those humanconnections one person to another are super powerful.
And then people remember, oh,I had that connection at Brookline booksmith
(25:30):
and so they have very positive feelingsof that particular location and will want to
go back to have more of thosehuman connections. So any business can be
thinking about how can I bring peopletogether physically so that they're literally able to
talk with one another, be nearone another, to be able to share
(25:53):
a like minded experience. Another exampleof this idea A company that I've been
associated with now for I think seventeenyears is HubSpot. So. HubSpot is
a sales marketing and customer services technologycompany and they provide CRM style systems that
(26:15):
help companies to grow their businesses.And I joined their advisory board way back
in two thousand and seven when HubSpotwas only a handful of people and only
a quarter of a million dollars inrevenue, and I've been advising them in
part of their advisory board since thenand now they're going to generate something like
(26:37):
two and a half billion dollars inthe next year and they have seven thousand
employees. They're growing like crazy.And what HubSpot does is they have an
annual conference. It's held in Boston, and this past year they had I
think it was twelve thousand people inperson, and then one hundred thousand people
(27:02):
virtually. But that in person groupof twelve thousand people plus they have much
smaller events in other parts of theworld. They have offices in many different
countries. Bringing those people together whoare customers of HubSpot, or who are
fans of HubSpot but not yet customers, bringing them together into a conference where
(27:26):
they can meet one another and shareideas physically in person, super super great
way to build fans. So anythingthat you can do, whatever kind of
business you run, if you canbring people physically together so that they're in
the same room is a super powerfulway to build fans. And how important
(27:48):
is the physical aspect of it.I mean, now you know everyone is
talking about metabs in the last coupleof years. Is this something? Is
it a good alternative or it's importantThey have to be physically in the same
room you know, close to eachother. When this happens, it physically
(28:12):
in the same room is super superpowerful. So if you have a way
to do that, it's important totry to do it. There are alternatives,
like we're doing one right now.Video video can be an alternative and
it goes back to another form ofneuroscience. It's called mirror neurons. I'll
(28:34):
demonstrate this idea for you right now. So mirror neurons are the part of
our brain which fires when we seesomebody do something, and our brain is
firing as if we're doing it ourself. So this is an important concept to
understand around the idea of having avirtual connection with fans. So remember that
(28:57):
having a physical connection in the sameroom is the best. But if you
can't have a physical connection, havinga virtual connection on video it can be
super powerful. So let me demonstratethe idea of mirror neurons. When my
brain fires, I feel at bigtime. However, if you see somebody
(29:18):
do something, your brain can firetoo. I've got a lemon, and
I've got a slice of lemon.If I take a bite of the slice
of lemon, wow, super powerful. My eyes close, I can feel
the lemon on my tongue and onmy lips, and wow, it's really
powerful to bite into a lemon.Rafer you feeling a lemon? Two?
(29:41):
Isn't that weird? Right? Sothat's mirror neurons. So where it becomes
valuable for building fans is doing exactlywhat we're doing right now by having video
where you're looking directly at the cameralike we're like we're doing now, and
(30:02):
it's cropped as if you are nearbysomebody like I'm standing right now, So
my video is cropped as if we'rehaving a conversation standing up, you know,
maybe at a party or something.I think you're sitting down, is
that right? Yeah, So whenyou're sitting down like you are, and
(30:23):
you've cropped in a perfect way,it's like you're sitting across from somebody at
a restaurant to or a bar,and our brain because of mirror neurons.
I showed you the example of thelemon, and those of you who are
only listening, I held up alemon, and maybe even your mouth is
(30:44):
tasting a lemon too, and youdidn't even see it. You just heard
me talking about it, but yourbrain began to fire too. So now
when you're seeing video like we're doingright now on video, and if you're
not watching both of the videos areI mean you're not on video just listening
to both of the videos are croppedas if you are in the same room
with me and raf. Is thatour brains process as we're literally in the
(31:10):
same room. Now. Intellectually youknow you're not in the same room as
that person they're on video, butyour brain processes it as if you are.
And this is exactly why you feelas though you personally know a movie
star or an actor because you've seenthem on TV. Your brain thinks that
(31:30):
you are friends with that person.So long way of saying, if you
cannot get your customers into the samephysical, physical room, maybe you can
use video, create a video podcast, interview customers and share it on a
YouTube channel or another video channel.Put video on your website. Even photographs,
(31:55):
put them on your website, croppedas if you're in the same room,
casually shot looking directly at the camera, exactly like we're creating right now.
So you're building fans rapp by justby doing this, this this the
growth talks that you're putting together,you're building fans. I have another one
from from the book. Uh,you know, there are a lot of
(32:20):
good example, but there is also, let's say, a bad example,
and it's the one about you know, there was this statement from Adobe Photoshop,
so you know that the way peoplecould use the brand and the way
that was not allowed to use thebrand. And what's interesting here is the
(32:44):
fact that you know, I'm readingfrom the book, so every incorrect statement
sounds like a fan of Adobe Photoshopsoftware, while every correct statement sounds like
a robot. And this is sotrue and all, and it's so common.
I mean, it's a very commonmistake. How can we avoid that?
(33:07):
So where the reason that this happenedis that the branding people at Adobe,
makers of Photoshop and other software products, we're trying to control the way
that their customers talk about their productsand services, and they're saying, you
(33:30):
can say it this way, butnot this way. That's a big mistake.
Because what we learned as we dida bunch of research about fandom,
and I keep saying we and mydaughter wrote the book with me, is
that if once you put your productor service or art out there, it
no longer belongs to you. Itnow belongs to your fans, and you
(33:54):
need to let go of your creations. You need to understand that if a
fan wants to talk about you andtheir own words, that should be great.
You should let that happen and don'ttry to control that conversation because if
you're trying to control that conversation,you're going to you're going to to actually
(34:17):
put brakes on the idea of fandomand people will be less likely to be
your fans because you're trying to dictateto them what they can and can't do.
So Adobe kind of screwed that oneup. They actively discouraged people from
talking about photoshop in the way theywanted to and try to control the message,
(34:40):
and then people get frustrated and theywon't talk about you, or they'll
say negative things about you. So, you know, let people share in
the way they want to share.I love it. These are very powerful
idea. Yeah, I love it, David. We usually end these conversations
here on the podcas with two quickquestions. So if you have any cool
(35:06):
books that you want to share withus, of course your book is going
to be linked in the description below, But have you read something in the
last couple of I don't know yearssomething that was really I don't know a
good book that you want to sharewith my audience something marketing related, but
also I don't know a novel orwhatever. Yeah, so I really like
(35:34):
to learn about ideas that I canapply to marketing, but from different industries.
I read very few marketing books,very few business books. I tend
to read books from other industries andapply it to marketing. So a great
example of a book like that isby David Byrne. And David Byrne is
(35:59):
the lead singer of the Talking Headsrock band, and he has a book
called How Music Works, and HowMusic Works is a great overview of his
career but also music going all theway back to the Middle Ages. And
(36:22):
I found it super interesting as away to learn about music as a non
musician. That can then I canapply some of those ideas to marketing.
Nice. Uh, you'll find alink in the description as well of this
one. And what about tools?Do you have any useful and cool tool
(36:45):
that you use in your day today routine in your job, something that
you want to share with us?Sure? A tool I really like is
called lately lately dot ai, andlately dot Ai is a software tool where
I can take long form content thatI create and instantly turn it into short
(37:08):
form content, which then I canshare on my social networks. So specifically,
the way will it works is Ican take a chapter of Fanocracy,
for example, or I can takea blog post that I've written, drop
it into Lately, and then Latelywe'll create ten or twenty or thirty LinkedIn
(37:30):
posts or tweets, and then Ican schedule those through Lately to go out
once a day or you know,twice a week or whatever schedule I want
automatically be shared. So it savesme a ton of time and increases the
number of social posts that I do. And critically important, it's my content,
(37:53):
you know, It's not like chat, GPT making something up. It's
literally my content turning long form contentin the short form content lately AI great.
I love it. And lastly,do you want to share with us
where they can find you, readyou, follow you, any links?
(38:13):
Absolutely so, We've got a greatwebsite at fanocracy dot com. If you
want to learn more about that book, I've got a website David Meerman Scott
dot com. And then most ofthe social networks, I am d M.
Scott, D M. S CO T T cool great. Every
(38:34):
link is going to be in thedescription below. David, thank you very
much for your time. This wasmy pleasure. Thanks Rav, good to
talk to you you. Thanks forlistening to this episode of the podcast.
I hope you enjoyed it and youlearn something new. Make sure to subscribe
to us on YouTube and Spotify tostay updated on new episodes. With your
support, I can continue to bringgreat content and great guests to this podcast.
(38:59):
So hit this subscribe button now andI'll see you in the next episode.
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