July 12, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode of Growth Talks, I sit down with Rory Flynn, entrepreneur, AI consultant, and co-founder of Systematiq.ai. Rory has made a name for himself helping brands and creators integrate AI tools like Midjourney and ChatGPT into their creative and marketing workflows. With a background that spans digital marketing, high-converting campaigns, and building educational resources for AI users, Rory is at the forefront of how technology is transforming creativity and business.
We dive into some fascinating topics, including:
- How AI tools are reshaping creative processes
- The biggest misconceptions people have about using AI in their work
- Whether AI is replacing or enhancing human creativity
- His own journey with generative AI
…and much more!
If you’re curious about how to stay ahead in the AI-driven future—or just want practical tips for using tools like genAI in your own projects—this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.
Tune in now and discover how to unlock the creative power of AI with Rory Flynn!
👍 Follow our guest here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rory-flynn-ai/
https://x.com/ror_fly
📔 Read my book "Growth Talks"
https://amzn.to/3zfqRTu
🧲 Watch my free lead generation course:
https://gaito.link/skillshare
🙏 Subscribe to the channel:
https://gaito.link/subscribe
📚 Download the Reading List:
https://gaito.link/gtbooks
We dive into some fascinating topics, including:
- How AI tools are reshaping creative processes
- The biggest misconceptions people have about using AI in their work
- Whether AI is replacing or enhancing human creativity
- His own journey with generative AI
…and much more!
If you’re curious about how to stay ahead in the AI-driven future—or just want practical tips for using tools like genAI in your own projects—this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.
Tune in now and discover how to unlock the creative power of AI with Rory Flynn!
👍 Follow our guest here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rory-flynn-ai/
https://x.com/ror_fly
📔 Read my book "Growth Talks"
https://amzn.to/3zfqRTu
🧲 Watch my free lead generation course:
https://gaito.link/skillshare
🙏 Subscribe to the channel:
https://gaito.link/subscribe
📚 Download the Reading List:
https://gaito.link/gtbooks
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Chile, Everyone, and welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
My name is Ralf M your host, and my guest
today is Rory Flint hi Ror.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
How are you good, man, I'm good.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
It's been a pretty crazy, pretty hectic day. Stage is awesome,
This whole event has been pretty wild.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
So appreciate you guys having me. It's been killered. It's nice.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Thanks, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So we usually start these conversations here on the podcast
with a simple one with a classic So I want
to know a little bit about your story, your background,
and I like to know more about how you went
from marketing to the AI world.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Well, it was it wasn't necessarily the plan. It was
more so necessity, I would say. So, you know, back
when we started this with ninety person eight, a ninety
client agency, we're working primarily in the digital marketing space,
so a lot of paid media, email marketing, things like that.
But we were really awesome at citing clients so marketing
and selling our services. We were not so great at
(00:59):
backfilling the work. So it was just something that came
out of necessity. We could not keep up with what
we had created and just at the time, luckily it
just happened to be sort of serendipitous that AI became available.
So we had early, really early use cases for things
like chat GPT version three. We were using mid Journey
version three for you know, probably the back you know,
(01:22):
probably reverse of how everyone did this stuff. We just
started putting things out into the market, consumer facing and
just like letting the market respond and it worked. And
then before we knew it, it was sort of like
this is great. We were just using it for creative
It's like where else can we do this? It's like
can this work in sales? Ken this working onboarding? Can
this work in you know strategy? Can this work with
(01:43):
you know, client relations? And just started finding different ways
to do it. But we had a because we got
on it early. It was just lucky we had a
runway to not have to force it. We could play,
we could fail. It was a you know, it was
a lot more lax than it is now. Is like
this true JEC three you you must adopted a so
a little bit different now than it was then.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Do you remember when and what was the aha moment?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
You say it was the very beginning of Chadjibiti, was
the way very beginning of mid journey. What was you
know that that moment everything changeable and you realize that
you know, there was potentially that totally it was. It
was one late night doom scroll on Twitter and I
saw an image of like the Pope in a Balenciaga
like buff jacket. Oh I remember that one, and I
(02:30):
was I was like, what is this?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
He didn't wear that.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I did some you know, backtracking and found that it
was mid journey and I was like, oh, this is incredible.
Let me go see what I can do. I went
on there and within two seconds I had generated something
and I was like, this is this is not real?
Like this can't be happening. And then I spent the
next probably nine hours overnight just like blurry eyed it
(02:54):
just not so gotta get all this done.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And that immediately went from you.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Know, I'm creating aliens and like, you know, fictional worlds too.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Can I do this for my job?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
And that transition like quickly happened, so we were just
like a click. Next day told my designers, I was like,
you guys got to see this, We have to we
have to try this there of course, you know, great Rory,
you know we have you know, ten hours of work
to do today. Now you're asking us to learn some
completely random AI tool. I was like, fine, I'll figure
it out for everyone. And once they got their hands
(03:28):
on it, they started seeing the light and they were like,
oh my god. So it was a really quick adoption
process for us. Once everyone, you know, everyone can feel
like a kid again when you start to you know,
type something in and bring your imagination to life. That
was really for them that moment too, that we all
sort of got it serendipitously and like to get Yeah,
I want to jump on that.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So you are really into tools like me Journey and
sibyl are.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
How do you think those tools are reshaping the whole
creative process? I would say it's to me, it's just
so open ended now. Like it used to be, there
was this structured workflow of how everything got done. You know,
you had your product photos. Then when they'd come through
from you know, to our designers, they'd have to go
do this certain way and photoshop that would have to
(04:13):
go through approval and that if they didn't like it,
go back and edit.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Now it's like a completely non linear process.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
You know, I can test a bunch of things like
final final product final look and say do you like this,
and they can say yes or no, and then we
can reverse engineer how to get there. So it's changed
how we work, like the traditional structures are all gone,
and not that that's a bad thing. I think it's
also just a way to look at it. As you know,
we can also take what is real life and build
(04:39):
upon it. So we did a lot with taking original
assets that were created by our photographers or by you know,
some of the other creative teams that we worked with,
take them and then expand upon another. You know, something
that might be local for New York and we wanted
it to be a little bit more global and generic
in nature. We could then take it and sort of
iterate it upon that. So there's so many ways that
we sort of, I don't know, backed into using it
(05:02):
where it wasn't Maybe there was no guidelines for it
back then, there was no frameworks.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
We were just kind of making it up.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
As it's all about, I suppose it's all about experimenting,
especially if you are, like at the beginning, one of
the first mover you know, the first adopter of new
technology and new tools.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
So it was like that for you. I suppose definitely.
And again, like I said, there was no there was
no guide on how to use mid journey.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Back then, there was no guide on how to use
Runway or build a whole creative process utilizing the tools.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
So we just made it up.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
There was no other way. So we failed. We failed
a lot. But what AI allowed us to do is
fail quick. So I used to be a designer. If
I used to chase an idea, you know, something that
might be like a winning idea for a campaign, I
might jeopardize the entire campaign. And if that, you know,
if I can't deliver on what my ideation was, then
I just tanked the whole project. So he used to
(05:54):
have to decide between chasing that or doing the safe thing.
Now I can chase that one thousand times in ten minutes.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I see what I mean. They didn't get there, and
then be like, okay, this works, So this doesn't work.
Let's stay on trap. So yeah, it's it's really man,
it's you know, luckily we.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Had that runway to fail a lot before it became
like necessity for us.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
To use it.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And you just say I was a designer, And you
also said before you know, the first reaction of my
designers was like, mah uh, you.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Know, there is a lot going on right now.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
A lot of people say, oh, this is not real art,
this is not really creative.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
What what's your position, what's the take on that. I
think anyone's you know, entitled to their opinion on what
it is or what it's not. I think you look
at it. When my designers saw the light, they were
thinking about it as a one put like a one
click solution to create an entire graphic design. But as
a designer, you know that you're not using one image
as a design.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
You're using layers and different.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Like you're pulling different pieces of design from different other
you know, from other areas. You're pulling gradients, textures, you know,
holding elements, framing elements, things like that. Once I started
to show them that you didn't have to generate the
full design with one click, and then we could be
like the farmer of our own ingredients. So we could
generate the gradient, allowed to generate the framing option, we
(07:13):
could generate little icons and then put it together. That's
when it was so it was really for me, like
I see it as you know a lot of times
how I look at it is it's not replacing people.
It's not an alternative. It's just an additive into what
you're already doing. And a lot of times, you know,
it's it's just like the execution of an idea that
(07:34):
will either get done or not get done.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
There's really no in between.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And let's go a bit deeper in that. So where
do we droll the line? You know?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I think there is like a good way and and
the bad way of using this tools. You can like
turn off your brain and you know, wait for for
for the result or as.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You say, you know you can you can, you can
you can even.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Part of the process.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
What do we Joe Delion, I mean, what's what what's
the best way?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I don't know have to do some best baby, what's
the best way to use tools like Majorney and all
the others that do are.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Honestly, I use it as a playground. Like That's how
I think about it. It's a sandbox. You can do
whatever you want. You can test a bunch of different ideas.
I might find something that looks really good for a
client that I wasn't even expecting just because I was
playing around, and then oh, let me retrofit this into
sort of their process. So I use it a lot
more as ideation than as final products. At this point,
(08:29):
we use it a lot as final product. But now
we have so many tools that we can sort of
tag team together and utilize them unison that you know,
the line for me is never really been I've never
really found that line because I'm not I try not
to do. I try not to use it for things
that like traditional designers would use it for or just
like the I wouldn't use it because if someone said, oh,
I can do all of my graphic design and mid
(08:50):
journey like that doesn't jibe with me, right like, I don't.
I don't want to be thought I don't want it
to be thought of that way. I wanted to be
thought of as you know, I can put this creative
visual fire power in here that I couldn't do with
photoshop or illustrator, and I can do it with you
know you do different words.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah, that's how it works.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
So yeah, I wouldn't go and replicate celebrity sort of
you know celebrity or you know personas and utilize their
intellectual property. It wouldn't go into there and say in
the style of Nike give me this ad, like, yeah,
rather come up with my own sort of process or
my own visual signature in there. So yeah, I think
it's just you know, relatively, if you have a unique
(09:30):
idea and you want to go execute it, you can
now do it and bring it to life. And that's
where I think everyone could be a creative now if
everyone can do it.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And you just said, we have like a lot of
tools we use, can I ask you what's your toolbox
right now? So do you I know, I know people
love you know, they love apps and tools. They want
to know the names if you want, can you share
with us like your favorite ones?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Totally? I think there's you know, I really love Mid Journey.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Of course, you know, it's like stereotypical, that's just what
a lot of what I do is built on. But
outside of Mid Journey, I do love a lot of
these aggregator tools now, especially when I'm talking to beginners
or people who are newer to the space. Korea is
one that I love just because of all the access
to the other tools that they have. It's a great
(10:21):
way to just play around. You get used to everything
before you want to go.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I really like Clay and I want to go that direction.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
It's a great place to learn to clean like user interface,
user experience. So I love that. I'm also really intrigued
by these tools now called weav and Flora. They're node
based aggregators where you can pull in all the open
source models.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
And start to crade your own work.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Again, what's the name again?
Speaker 4 (10:46):
So we v is one w A W E A
vy dot AI and the other one is called Flora
f l O r A and those two. I feel
like that's where everything's going because once everyone understands how
to utilize, you know, at a baseline, an LLM, an
image generator, a video generator. Now you can bring it
all into one space and visualize an entire workflow. So
(11:08):
how would this go from text to image to video
all in one place so you can see.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
It nater rate in there.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
You build all different kinds of workflows in that sense
as well. So I'm really intrigued by those tools because
they also bring in you know, you can use runway, cling,
VYO two VO two, Luma, anything that has an API
and it's it's open, it's very open and you're super glean.
I think those are you know, I love all the
(11:34):
video tools. I love screwing around with them. The l
M side of things, I typically stick on chat, GDT, claude,
perplexity those really where I live, haven't gone Yeah, I haven't
gone into the open source side on the lll ms
that way, that's a little bit too daunting for me
at this point.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I like to I like, you know, to make pretty pictures.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So I went into also these thing.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I hope to speak with with with with companies, especially
the small ones you know a semes and then the startups,
and probably the most common question with them is should
I like pay an agency to do that for me
or should I like teach and train and coach my
own people to you know, how to use jen Ai? Uh?
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Probably you know it's it's it's the correct answer is
it depends?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
But what do you usually suggests when I when a
company is you know, in front of this decision and
they don't know if they need to.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Spend money or spend time.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I'm always about empowering prom with them.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
So that's sort of my whole ethos has been we
did it to help our designers. Initially that was like
I wasn't like I want to get rid of my
creative team because I could do this with AI.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
It's like, I'd rather give my.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Creative team a lot more firepower to do exactly what
they want to do. So I always think, if you,
you know, if you want to take it internally, if
you have a few early adopters or people that are
really interested in the subject, like let them run, but
really let them play. Because one of the things we
did early on with our team, probably expanding on this
question a little bit, was we basically had like a
(13:10):
I called it like a seal team. It was a
team that was basically you were only allowed to use
AI tools to get a project done, no traditional tools,
no photoshop, no illustrator. And because of that forced learning,
they came up with so many more things than we
could have ever imagined. And then they were the ones
that were able to disperse that throughout the entirety of
the program.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Was he like, so, yeah, how do you manage?
Speaker 4 (13:35):
So we also we'd run basically we called them ghost projects,
so we'd have we'd put this team on the same
project as another team and have them essentially do the
same cover the same brief, and we you know, we're
tracking again one against the other to see which one
produce faster, produce better.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Oh nice.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Then we go to the clients and oftentimes we'd show
them both, say this one is AI and this one
is real, you know, like traditionally designed, and they'd always say,
you know, the AI one looks pulled and lifeless. So
what we started doing was we started flipping the script
and saying this one is you know, the saying the
real life was AI and the you know, the traditional
was or sorry, the traditional was AI and the AI
(14:13):
was traditional and they.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Would always be like, oh yeah, the one that's AI
is culled in life. It's like, you don't know anymore.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
So now now we're at a point where it's homogeneous,
it works, it's faster, it's more efficient, we can do
more creative things.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
So that was really where.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
We started to be like, okay, we really have empowered
this team. They got really good, really fast because of
the they were hamstrung. But we also gave them no repercussion,
so if the clients hated their work, it was basically
like an open canvas to just go and learn, and
that helped them flourish and they now are way better
than I am.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's probably the best thing to the wa if you
will people to try and faith, you know, without being
worried of what's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
Because they already have a full time job right already
there is only so much time in a day for
them to get is done. And now I'm like, here,
go learn an entire new mindset and skill set. They
looked at me like come on now, so you know,
giving them that freedom to fail, that everything is okay,
You're not going to be punished.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Just go be creative and like it opened doors.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
So I think you know, that's always where my ethos
comes from with a lot of this stuff is never
just like replace or ad and just like lean on
these tools.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
It's lean on the people because when you lean.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
On them, they're going to produce because they are humans
and I like humans.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I love this example.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And if you are listening and you are like a
manager or entrepreneur, issuld that. So that's that's a that's
a great one and really practical tip to start, you know,
experimenting in your company. Uh you you spoke about skills, yeh.
From what you see in the market at the moment,
what's the main gap in terms of skills when people,
(15:54):
you know, companies, freelancers, you know, start up They want
to approach the whole a work.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
I think everyone just looking for a quick fix, oh personally,
and I think that's probably the wrong mentality to go
about it. Yes, you can do things very quickly now
with a very simple you know, with a lot of
simple niche tools that will work.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
But you don't.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
You don't get anything that's sort of visually memorable from it.
You get you get exactly the generic look and feel
that everyone else gets. You know, you see the chat
GPT action figures that everyone did.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
It's like that's cool.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
It works for like social media for about a week,
but there's no lasting impact. There's no sort of like
value to that. So yeah, I really to me, I
just see this. There's this gap of like wanting things
to be easy because AI in itself seems easy, but
to give me like a silver look.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, they just.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Want like, oh, can you design a whole presentation for
me in one click?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
And then it's like, oh, there's my whole presentation. I
don't have to do it.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Reality is that's not you know, you're gonna get something
that's super generic and it's gonna be boring and it's
going to be just like everything else you've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I'm sure everyone here saw, you know, the chat gipt.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Like like copywriting that was so bad for so long,
and it was just like it was a game changer,
super charge your ex it's like, I know that's chat shipt,
or he's like, it's so obvious because no one talks
like that.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
So yeah, I think it's just this.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
I think it's this misconception that AI is simple, where
sure it can be simple, but if you want to
be good, you have to you have to learn it,
you have to be like in it.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
To get the most out of it.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
The fuck that the apple is quake. It doesn't mean
that you know the process behind it.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
It's it's it's it's quick at and an easy correct
right correct.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
And I also think that a lot of people, you know,
just instantly imagine that they can shift industry overnight, like
I'm an accountant and now I'm a now I'm an
AI filmmaker. I'm not saying don't do that, you can
one hundred percent do that. I just think it's better
if you start to amplify. You're already good skills with
the tools, so if you are an accountant, then figuring
(18:05):
out how to utilize an LM to then use it
in your spreadsheets or talk to your spreadsheets, or make
data three sixty and holistic so you can have conversations
with it instead of just looking at a spreadsheet.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
That might be more up your alley because you.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Know where the like the friction points are in your workflow,
where the friction points are the data you're an expert
at something like make yourself more of an expert.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, you can also switch industries if you want to.
Not telling you not to.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
It's just I think people are so primed to use
it they don't even know it. Like there so there's
such experts in one thing, and it's like, yeah, use
it to amplify and you could be really good.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
It's a superpower.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yes, it's a super And then uh, you know that
in the industry days also a lot you know, there's.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
A lot of creative to talk a lot about defog that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You know, AI is going to replace some of them,
some of them are going to lose their job.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
What's your idea, what's what's what's her take on that?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I'm a big take. It's a big one. It's sort
of complex in nature. Personally, I think at some point
we're all gonna you know, is any of this's going
to exist?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Maybe not.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
I don't know how soon or that's going to be,
or how far down the line that's going to be.
But I think everyone should have learned this because everyone
has become individualistic in nature in terms of what they
can do now. So you know, the person who might
not be able to create a feature length film because
they didn't have a two hundred million dollar budget or
could get their script approved by a major studio or
(19:35):
produce it now can make a movie with thirty dollars
in their basement. And inherently I think that's good. I
think that brings good ideas to the forefront. I think
that actually brings, you know, the opportunity for people to
get noticed. But they have to control their distribution, right,
So that's where I think, you know, we're going to.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
See this movement. This is just a guess. Everyone talks about, you.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Know, creatives and Hollywood going down in flames with with
the whole AI thing. And it's always been traditionally because
the Hollywood has studios, they fund pictures.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
They go to the movies.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
The movies is where they make the money at the cinema, right,
But if the cinema shifts to YouTube and you have
an audience and you can create a movie, you've gotten
rid of the distribution and you've gotten.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Rid of the production, and now you control your own lane.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
So I think a lot more is going to be
based on that moving forward in terms of controlling distribution
and controlling production. And that's probably going to be a
little bit different than probably most are.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Thinking about it in the current moment.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
But I think everyone if they learn the tools, you're
sort of the master of your own universe at that point,
and you can build your own universe if you need to,
not relying on someone else's only going to give you
a job.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Do you think we outrated that?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I mean, like today, with thirty dollars in my basement,
I can create my own movie.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
We are there.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
I think if you have the requisite skills. I think
a current filmmaker, if you gave them these tools, like
someone who's maybe had ten years of experience in film,
and you get these tools, they're going to make something incredible.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I don't that you just said if they had like
ten years of experience. Yeah, why did you say that?
I know why I want to talk about it.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
There's like you just become jaded if you've been in
the industry for a while with all the things that
have been asked of you and all of because working
with you know, if you've ever worked with clients, you
know that they ask you more than what you're capable
of and more than you want to do. But that's
also forced learning, right, so you're forced to figure out
solutions and problems and you get more experience than doing
it just your way.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Right, So I've always thinking about someone who's had about
five to ten years experience in an industry. Probably five
is good enough just to know where the typically, where
all the roadblocks are, where all the problems come from,
and then it's easy to start finding solutions with these
tools because you know, like, oh, this typically takes me
five hours, Like creating a mood board as a designer,
that took me days. This was the first thing I
(21:54):
did when I got in there. I was like, can
I create mood boards like really quick? Because I don't
want to have to do that anymore, you know, I
don't want to have to source stock photography and go
on pinterest like I just want to combine everything or
develop my own assets and place it.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
So yeah, I think that's everyone's Everyone has to be
a little bit jaded by their job. If you're not,
you're a lucky one. I think.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Good for you and looking at the future in times
of trends and your technology and next steps. What's exciding
right now for you? You know that's gonna happen like
in two five years.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
It's crazy because whatever I thought was like two years out,
it seems to be coming like every other week.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
You know, Yeah, I feel it. I remember looking for Runway.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I remember looking for something that could take an image
to it, like animated image. And this was right before,
right as Runway came out, I was searching it like
can I find something that will take an image and
just animated still image and it came out.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
A runway out, WHOA what this exists? And then runway?
Speaker 4 (22:55):
You know, then it just explodes and now you know
how crazy it is. And that was like a year
and a half. So I think we're gonna start to
see probably at a certain point you see this as
very two D medium. Right now, we're watching everything on
a screen, right everything's on a screen, it's on your phone,
it's on a computer, it's on you know, a television,
whatever it might be. I think we're gonna start to
(23:16):
be more immersive at some point. We're gonna start the
world build a little bit. Whether that's I don't know
if that's gonna be spatial, virtual ar, you know, anything
along those lines.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
You know it's gonna be AM.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
I gonna be able to text to hologram, AM, I
gonna really can create Obi wan finobi right there and
make them a flash of lightsaber. I don't see why not.
I think the technology is gonna get there. I just
think the the evolution create, like the the development curve
is just gonna just skyrocket because we're gonna solve other
(23:46):
problems with other tools, like you can use AI to
solve more problems.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
It's gonna like so I can't even predict where we're
gonna be in two months.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
That I kind of nervous about that because it feels
sort of like it's a feels like it's run away
train and don't necessarily know where that train is going. Yeah,
it's it's uncomfortable, but it's also like what choice do
we sign on you know too right, It's like, what
choice do we have.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
We already made it the event horizon. We got to
keep going.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
The last one still about the future, is that something
that scares you? I mean, if you look at the
future of you know, the AI technology.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
I think it's I think it's terrified, like only from
only from a fact of how smart it's gotten, and
from there's a I tend to not work with the
lll ms as much I like to use them.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I know how to use them.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
To me, they speak the same language when the image
generation process, the video generation process. They're not talking back
to you, you know, like, yeah, I sent through a
prompt and it gives me an image.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
It doesn't say anything you got.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah, So I've had I've had some real I don't
want to say scary moments, but like we're it answers
in a way that just sounds way too human and
way too casual about it.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I just don't know if that's you know, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I'm I'm worried that bigger corporate, bigger type you know,
business environments are just gonna want to adapt all of that. Yeah,
And just like that's their answer and they're gonna leave
people out in the dust, where I think people are
the reason that these tools are good to begin with.
I don't think these tools running autonomously from what I've seen,
and you know, we build this into our business. It's great,
(25:21):
but without you know, certain risk factors from the huge
like without humans taking risk, without humans injecting life experience,
without humans breaking the rules, it's not it's not unique.
It doesn't it doesn't have like a unique story to it,
which again I tried to mention that in my presentation
on stage earlier. I was just like, everything looks the
(25:42):
same unless you go and break some rules or you
try something crazy. But hey, I doesn't do that. It
doesn't like to break the rules. Maybe it will. And
that's where I get scarce when it gets when it
starts breaking the rules and doing things the way that
it wants to do versus us. So there's always that concern.
I think it's only human concerned about that. But hopefully,
(26:03):
hopefully we can reel it in in terms of like
a uh, you know, and playing nice. I like to
talk very very very nicely to my chat tribute. It
said please and thank you. You know, I tell it
it does a good job. Don't kill me later on.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, just the case.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Yeah please, I'm one of the good ones. I like you,
I talk good about you.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So guys break the rules. Rory, it was a pleasure
having you on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Thank you, Thanks for
Chile, Everyone, and welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
My name is Ralf M your host, and my guest
today is Rory Flint hi Ror.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
How are you good, man, I'm good.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
It's been a pretty crazy, pretty hectic day. Stage is awesome,
This whole event has been pretty wild.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
So appreciate you guys having me. It's been killered. It's nice.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Thanks, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So we usually start these conversations here on the podcast
with a simple one with a classic So I want
to know a little bit about your story, your background,
and I like to know more about how you went
from marketing to the AI world.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Well, it was it wasn't necessarily the plan. It was
more so necessity, I would say. So, you know, back
when we started this with ninety person eight, a ninety
client agency, we're working primarily in the digital marketing space,
so a lot of paid media, email marketing, things like that.
But we were really awesome at citing clients so marketing
and selling our services. We were not so great at
(00:59):
backfilling the work. So it was just something that came
out of necessity. We could not keep up with what
we had created and just at the time, luckily it
just happened to be sort of serendipitous that AI became available.
So we had early, really early use cases for things
like chat GPT version three. We were using mid Journey
version three for you know, probably the back you know,
(01:22):
probably reverse of how everyone did this stuff. We just
started putting things out into the market, consumer facing and
just like letting the market respond and it worked. And
then before we knew it, it was sort of like
this is great. We were just using it for creative
It's like where else can we do this? It's like
can this work in sales? Ken this working onboarding? Can
this work in you know strategy? Can this work with
(01:43):
you know, client relations? And just started finding different ways
to do it. But we had a because we got
on it early. It was just lucky we had a
runway to not have to force it. We could play,
we could fail. It was a you know, it was
a lot more lax than it is now. Is like
this true JEC three you you must adopted a so
a little bit different now than it was then.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Do you remember when and what was the aha moment?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
You say it was the very beginning of Chadjibiti, was
the way very beginning of mid journey. What was you
know that that moment everything changeable and you realize that
you know, there was potentially that totally it was. It
was one late night doom scroll on Twitter and I
saw an image of like the Pope in a Balenciaga
like buff jacket. Oh I remember that one, and I
(02:30):
was I was like, what is this?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
He didn't wear that.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I did some you know, backtracking and found that it
was mid journey and I was like, oh, this is incredible.
Let me go see what I can do. I went
on there and within two seconds I had generated something
and I was like, this is this is not real?
Like this can't be happening. And then I spent the
next probably nine hours overnight just like blurry eyed it
(02:54):
just not so gotta get all this done.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And that immediately went from you.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Know, I'm creating aliens and like, you know, fictional worlds too.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Can I do this for my job?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
And that transition like quickly happened, so we were just
like a click. Next day told my designers, I was like,
you guys got to see this, We have to we
have to try this there of course, you know, great Rory,
you know we have you know, ten hours of work
to do today. Now you're asking us to learn some
completely random AI tool. I was like, fine, I'll figure
it out for everyone. And once they got their hands
(03:28):
on it, they started seeing the light and they were like,
oh my god. So it was a really quick adoption
process for us. Once everyone, you know, everyone can feel
like a kid again when you start to you know,
type something in and bring your imagination to life. That
was really for them that moment too, that we all
sort of got it serendipitously and like to get Yeah,
I want to jump on that.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So you are really into tools like me Journey and
sibyl are.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
How do you think those tools are reshaping the whole
creative process? I would say it's to me, it's just
so open ended now. Like it used to be, there
was this structured workflow of how everything got done. You know,
you had your product photos. Then when they'd come through
from you know, to our designers, they'd have to go
do this certain way and photoshop that would have to
(04:13):
go through approval and that if they didn't like it,
go back and edit.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Now it's like a completely non linear process.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
You know, I can test a bunch of things like
final final product final look and say do you like this,
and they can say yes or no, and then we
can reverse engineer how to get there. So it's changed
how we work, like the traditional structures are all gone,
and not that that's a bad thing. I think it's
also just a way to look at it. As you know,
we can also take what is real life and build
(04:39):
upon it. So we did a lot with taking original
assets that were created by our photographers or by you know,
some of the other creative teams that we worked with,
take them and then expand upon another. You know, something
that might be local for New York and we wanted
it to be a little bit more global and generic
in nature. We could then take it and sort of
iterate it upon that. So there's so many ways that
we sort of, I don't know, backed into using it
(05:02):
where it wasn't Maybe there was no guidelines for it
back then, there was no frameworks.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
We were just kind of making it up.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
As it's all about, I suppose it's all about experimenting,
especially if you are, like at the beginning, one of
the first mover you know, the first adopter of new
technology and new tools.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
So it was like that for you. I suppose definitely.
And again, like I said, there was no there was
no guide on how to use mid journey.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Back then, there was no guide on how to use
Runway or build a whole creative process utilizing the tools.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
So we just made it up.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
There was no other way. So we failed. We failed
a lot. But what AI allowed us to do is
fail quick. So I used to be a designer. If
I used to chase an idea, you know, something that
might be like a winning idea for a campaign, I
might jeopardize the entire campaign. And if that, you know,
if I can't deliver on what my ideation was, then
I just tanked the whole project. So he used to
(05:54):
have to decide between chasing that or doing the safe thing.
Now I can chase that one thousand times in ten minutes.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I see what I mean. They didn't get there, and
then be like, okay, this works, So this doesn't work.
Let's stay on trap. So yeah, it's it's really man,
it's you know, luckily we.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Had that runway to fail a lot before it became
like necessity for us.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
To use it.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And you just say I was a designer, And you
also said before you know, the first reaction of my
designers was like, mah uh, you.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Know, there is a lot going on right now.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
A lot of people say, oh, this is not real art,
this is not really creative.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
What what's your position, what's the take on that. I
think anyone's you know, entitled to their opinion on what
it is or what it's not. I think you look
at it. When my designers saw the light, they were
thinking about it as a one put like a one
click solution to create an entire graphic design. But as
a designer, you know that you're not using one image
as a design.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
You're using layers and different.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Like you're pulling different pieces of design from different other
you know, from other areas. You're pulling gradients, textures, you know,
holding elements, framing elements, things like that. Once I started
to show them that you didn't have to generate the
full design with one click, and then we could be
like the farmer of our own ingredients. So we could
generate the gradient, allowed to generate the framing option, we
(07:13):
could generate little icons and then put it together. That's
when it was so it was really for me, like
I see it as you know a lot of times
how I look at it is it's not replacing people.
It's not an alternative. It's just an additive into what
you're already doing. And a lot of times, you know,
it's it's just like the execution of an idea that
(07:34):
will either get done or not get done.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
There's really no in between.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And let's go a bit deeper in that. So where
do we droll the line? You know?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I think there is like a good way and and
the bad way of using this tools. You can like
turn off your brain and you know, wait for for
for the result or as.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
You say, you know you can you can, you can
you can even.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Part of the process.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
What do we Joe Delion, I mean, what's what what's
the best way?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I don't know have to do some best baby, what's
the best way to use tools like Majorney and all
the others that do are.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Honestly, I use it as a playground. Like That's how
I think about it. It's a sandbox. You can do
whatever you want. You can test a bunch of different ideas.
I might find something that looks really good for a
client that I wasn't even expecting just because I was
playing around, and then oh, let me retrofit this into
sort of their process. So I use it a lot
more as ideation than as final products. At this point,
(08:29):
we use it a lot as final product. But now
we have so many tools that we can sort of
tag team together and utilize them unison that you know,
the line for me is never really been I've never
really found that line because I'm not I try not
to do. I try not to use it for things
that like traditional designers would use it for or just
like the I wouldn't use it because if someone said, oh,
I can do all of my graphic design and mid
(08:50):
journey like that doesn't jibe with me, right like, I don't.
I don't want to be thought I don't want it
to be thought of that way. I wanted to be
thought of as you know, I can put this creative
visual fire power in here that I couldn't do with
photoshop or illustrator, and I can do it with you
know you do different words.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah, that's how it works.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
So yeah, I wouldn't go and replicate celebrity sort of
you know celebrity or you know personas and utilize their
intellectual property. It wouldn't go into there and say in
the style of Nike give me this ad, like, yeah,
rather come up with my own sort of process or
my own visual signature in there. So yeah, I think
it's just you know, relatively, if you have a unique
(09:30):
idea and you want to go execute it, you can
now do it and bring it to life. And that's
where I think everyone could be a creative now if
everyone can do it.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And you just said, we have like a lot of
tools we use, can I ask you what's your toolbox
right now? So do you I know, I know people
love you know, they love apps and tools. They want
to know the names if you want, can you share
with us like your favorite ones?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Totally? I think there's you know, I really love Mid Journey.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Of course, you know, it's like stereotypical, that's just what
a lot of what I do is built on. But
outside of Mid Journey, I do love a lot of
these aggregator tools now, especially when I'm talking to beginners
or people who are newer to the space. Korea is
one that I love just because of all the access
to the other tools that they have. It's a great
(10:21):
way to just play around. You get used to everything
before you want to go.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I really like Clay and I want to go that direction.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
It's a great place to learn to clean like user interface,
user experience. So I love that. I'm also really intrigued
by these tools now called weav and Flora. They're node
based aggregators where you can pull in all the open
source models.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
And start to crade your own work.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Again, what's the name again?
Speaker 4 (10:46):
So we v is one w A W E A
vy dot AI and the other one is called Flora
f l O r A and those two. I feel
like that's where everything's going because once everyone understands how
to utilize, you know, at a baseline, an LLM, an
image generator, a video generator. Now you can bring it
all into one space and visualize an entire workflow. So
(11:08):
how would this go from text to image to video
all in one place so you can see.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
It nater rate in there.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
You build all different kinds of workflows in that sense
as well. So I'm really intrigued by those tools because
they also bring in you know, you can use runway, cling,
VYO two VO two, Luma, anything that has an API
and it's it's open, it's very open and you're super glean.
I think those are you know, I love all the
(11:34):
video tools. I love screwing around with them. The l
M side of things, I typically stick on chat, GDT, claude,
perplexity those really where I live, haven't gone Yeah, I haven't
gone into the open source side on the lll ms
that way, that's a little bit too daunting for me
at this point.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I like to I like, you know, to make pretty pictures.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So I went into also these thing.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I hope to speak with with with with companies, especially
the small ones you know a semes and then the startups,
and probably the most common question with them is should
I like pay an agency to do that for me
or should I like teach and train and coach my
own people to you know, how to use jen Ai? Uh?
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Probably you know it's it's it's the correct answer is
it depends?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
But what do you usually suggests when I when a
company is you know, in front of this decision and
they don't know if they need to.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Spend money or spend time.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I'm always about empowering prom with them.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
So that's sort of my whole ethos has been we
did it to help our designers. Initially that was like
I wasn't like I want to get rid of my
creative team because I could do this with AI.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
It's like, I'd rather give my.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Creative team a lot more firepower to do exactly what
they want to do. So I always think, if you,
you know, if you want to take it internally, if
you have a few early adopters or people that are
really interested in the subject, like let them run, but
really let them play. Because one of the things we
did early on with our team, probably expanding on this
question a little bit, was we basically had like a
(13:10):
I called it like a seal team. It was a
team that was basically you were only allowed to use
AI tools to get a project done, no traditional tools,
no photoshop, no illustrator. And because of that forced learning,
they came up with so many more things than we
could have ever imagined. And then they were the ones
that were able to disperse that throughout the entirety of
the program.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Was he like, so, yeah, how do you manage?
Speaker 4 (13:35):
So we also we'd run basically we called them ghost projects,
so we'd have we'd put this team on the same
project as another team and have them essentially do the
same cover the same brief, and we you know, we're
tracking again one against the other to see which one
produce faster, produce better.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Oh nice.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Then we go to the clients and oftentimes we'd show
them both, say this one is AI and this one
is real, you know, like traditionally designed, and they'd always say,
you know, the AI one looks pulled and lifeless. So
what we started doing was we started flipping the script
and saying this one is you know, the saying the
real life was AI and the you know, the traditional
was or sorry, the traditional was AI and the AI
(14:13):
was traditional and they.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Would always be like, oh yeah, the one that's AI
is culled in life. It's like, you don't know anymore.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
So now now we're at a point where it's homogeneous,
it works, it's faster, it's more efficient, we can do
more creative things.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
So that was really where.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
We started to be like, okay, we really have empowered
this team. They got really good, really fast because of
the they were hamstrung. But we also gave them no repercussion,
so if the clients hated their work, it was basically
like an open canvas to just go and learn, and
that helped them flourish and they now are way better
than I am.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's probably the best thing to the wa if you
will people to try and faith, you know, without being
worried of what's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
Because they already have a full time job right already
there is only so much time in a day for
them to get is done. And now I'm like, here,
go learn an entire new mindset and skill set. They
looked at me like come on now, so you know,
giving them that freedom to fail, that everything is okay,
You're not going to be punished.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Just go be creative and like it opened doors.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
So I think you know, that's always where my ethos
comes from with a lot of this stuff is never
just like replace or ad and just like lean on
these tools.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
It's lean on the people because when you lean.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
On them, they're going to produce because they are humans
and I like humans.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I love this example.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And if you are listening and you are like a
manager or entrepreneur, issuld that. So that's that's a that's
a great one and really practical tip to start, you know,
experimenting in your company. Uh you you spoke about skills, yeh.
From what you see in the market at the moment,
what's the main gap in terms of skills when people,
(15:54):
you know, companies, freelancers, you know, start up They want
to approach the whole a work.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
I think everyone just looking for a quick fix, oh personally,
and I think that's probably the wrong mentality to go
about it. Yes, you can do things very quickly now
with a very simple you know, with a lot of
simple niche tools that will work.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
But you don't.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
You don't get anything that's sort of visually memorable from it.
You get you get exactly the generic look and feel
that everyone else gets. You know, you see the chat
GPT action figures that everyone did.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
It's like that's cool.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
It works for like social media for about a week,
but there's no lasting impact. There's no sort of like
value to that. So yeah, I really to me, I
just see this. There's this gap of like wanting things
to be easy because AI in itself seems easy, but
to give me like a silver look.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, they just.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Want like, oh, can you design a whole presentation for
me in one click?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
And then it's like, oh, there's my whole presentation. I
don't have to do it.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Reality is that's not you know, you're gonna get something
that's super generic and it's gonna be boring and it's
going to be just like everything else you've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I'm sure everyone here saw, you know, the chat gipt.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Like like copywriting that was so bad for so long,
and it was just like it was a game changer,
super charge your ex it's like, I know that's chat shipt,
or he's like, it's so obvious because no one talks
like that.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
So yeah, I think it's just this.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
I think it's this misconception that AI is simple, where
sure it can be simple, but if you want to
be good, you have to you have to learn it,
you have to be like in it.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
To get the most out of it.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
The fuck that the apple is quake. It doesn't mean
that you know the process behind it.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
It's it's it's it's quick at and an easy correct
right correct.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
And I also think that a lot of people, you know,
just instantly imagine that they can shift industry overnight, like
I'm an accountant and now I'm a now I'm an
AI filmmaker. I'm not saying don't do that, you can
one hundred percent do that. I just think it's better
if you start to amplify. You're already good skills with
the tools, so if you are an accountant, then figuring
(18:05):
out how to utilize an LM to then use it
in your spreadsheets or talk to your spreadsheets, or make
data three sixty and holistic so you can have conversations
with it instead of just looking at a spreadsheet.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
That might be more up your alley because you.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Know where the like the friction points are in your workflow,
where the friction points are the data you're an expert
at something like make yourself more of an expert.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, you can also switch industries if you want to.
Not telling you not to.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
It's just I think people are so primed to use
it they don't even know it. Like there so there's
such experts in one thing, and it's like, yeah, use
it to amplify and you could be really good.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
It's a superpower.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yes, it's a super And then uh, you know that
in the industry days also a lot you know, there's.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
A lot of creative to talk a lot about defog that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
You know, AI is going to replace some of them,
some of them are going to lose their job.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
What's your idea, what's what's what's her take on that?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I'm a big take. It's a big one. It's sort
of complex in nature. Personally, I think at some point
we're all gonna you know, is any of this's going
to exist?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Maybe not.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
I don't know how soon or that's going to be,
or how far down the line that's going to be.
But I think everyone should have learned this because everyone
has become individualistic in nature in terms of what they
can do now. So you know, the person who might
not be able to create a feature length film because
they didn't have a two hundred million dollar budget or
could get their script approved by a major studio or
(19:35):
produce it now can make a movie with thirty dollars
in their basement. And inherently I think that's good. I
think that brings good ideas to the forefront. I think
that actually brings, you know, the opportunity for people to
get noticed. But they have to control their distribution, right,
So that's where I think, you know, we're going to.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
See this movement. This is just a guess. Everyone talks about, you.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Know, creatives and Hollywood going down in flames with with
the whole AI thing. And it's always been traditionally because
the Hollywood has studios, they fund pictures.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
They go to the movies.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
The movies is where they make the money at the cinema, right,
But if the cinema shifts to YouTube and you have
an audience and you can create a movie, you've gotten
rid of the distribution and you've gotten.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Rid of the production, and now you control your own lane.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
So I think a lot more is going to be
based on that moving forward in terms of controlling distribution
and controlling production. And that's probably going to be a
little bit different than probably most are.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Thinking about it in the current moment.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
But I think everyone if they learn the tools, you're
sort of the master of your own universe at that point,
and you can build your own universe if you need to,
not relying on someone else's only going to give you
a job.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Do you think we outrated that?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I mean, like today, with thirty dollars in my basement,
I can create my own movie.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
We are there.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
I think if you have the requisite skills. I think
a current filmmaker, if you gave them these tools, like
someone who's maybe had ten years of experience in film,
and you get these tools, they're going to make something incredible.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I don't that you just said if they had like
ten years of experience. Yeah, why did you say that?
I know why I want to talk about it.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
There's like you just become jaded if you've been in
the industry for a while with all the things that
have been asked of you and all of because working
with you know, if you've ever worked with clients, you
know that they ask you more than what you're capable
of and more than you want to do. But that's
also forced learning, right, so you're forced to figure out
solutions and problems and you get more experience than doing
it just your way.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Right, So I've always thinking about someone who's had about
five to ten years experience in an industry. Probably five
is good enough just to know where the typically, where
all the roadblocks are, where all the problems come from,
and then it's easy to start finding solutions with these
tools because you know, like, oh, this typically takes me
five hours, Like creating a mood board as a designer,
that took me days. This was the first thing I
(21:54):
did when I got in there. I was like, can
I create mood boards like really quick? Because I don't
want to have to do that anymore, you know, I
don't want to have to source stock photography and go
on pinterest like I just want to combine everything or
develop my own assets and place it.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
So yeah, I think that's everyone's Everyone has to be
a little bit jaded by their job. If you're not,
you're a lucky one. I think.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Good for you and looking at the future in times
of trends and your technology and next steps. What's exciding
right now for you? You know that's gonna happen like
in two five years.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
It's crazy because whatever I thought was like two years out,
it seems to be coming like every other week.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
You know, Yeah, I feel it. I remember looking for Runway.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I remember looking for something that could take an image
to it, like animated image. And this was right before,
right as Runway came out, I was searching it like
can I find something that will take an image and
just animated still image and it came out.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
A runway out, WHOA what this exists? And then runway?
Speaker 4 (22:55):
You know, then it just explodes and now you know
how crazy it is. And that was like a year
and a half. So I think we're gonna start to
see probably at a certain point you see this as
very two D medium. Right now, we're watching everything on
a screen, right everything's on a screen, it's on your phone,
it's on a computer, it's on you know, a television,
whatever it might be. I think we're gonna start to
(23:16):
be more immersive at some point. We're gonna start the
world build a little bit. Whether that's I don't know
if that's gonna be spatial, virtual ar, you know, anything
along those lines.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
You know it's gonna be AM.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
I gonna be able to text to hologram, AM, I
gonna really can create Obi wan finobi right there and
make them a flash of lightsaber. I don't see why not.
I think the technology is gonna get there. I just
think the the evolution create, like the the development curve
is just gonna just skyrocket because we're gonna solve other
(23:46):
problems with other tools, like you can use AI to
solve more problems.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
It's gonna like so I can't even predict where we're
gonna be in two months.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
That I kind of nervous about that because it feels
sort of like it's a feels like it's run away
train and don't necessarily know where that train is going. Yeah,
it's it's uncomfortable, but it's also like what choice do
we sign on you know too right, It's like, what
choice do we have.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
We already made it the event horizon. We got to
keep going.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
The last one still about the future, is that something
that scares you? I mean, if you look at the
future of you know, the AI technology.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
I think it's I think it's terrified, like only from
only from a fact of how smart it's gotten, and
from there's a I tend to not work with the
lll ms as much I like to use them.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I know how to use them.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
To me, they speak the same language when the image
generation process, the video generation process. They're not talking back
to you, you know, like, yeah, I sent through a
prompt and it gives me an image.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
It doesn't say anything you got.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah, So I've had I've had some real I don't
want to say scary moments, but like we're it answers
in a way that just sounds way too human and
way too casual about it.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I just don't know if that's you know, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I'm I'm worried that bigger corporate, bigger type you know,
business environments are just gonna want to adapt all of that. Yeah,
And just like that's their answer and they're gonna leave
people out in the dust, where I think people are
the reason that these tools are good to begin with.
I don't think these tools running autonomously from what I've seen,
and you know, we build this into our business. It's great,
(25:21):
but without you know, certain risk factors from the huge
like without humans taking risk, without humans injecting life experience,
without humans breaking the rules, it's not it's not unique.
It doesn't it doesn't have like a unique story to it,
which again I tried to mention that in my presentation
on stage earlier. I was just like, everything looks the
(25:42):
same unless you go and break some rules or you
try something crazy. But hey, I doesn't do that. It
doesn't like to break the rules. Maybe it will. And
that's where I get scarce when it gets when it
starts breaking the rules and doing things the way that
it wants to do versus us. So there's always that concern.
I think it's only human concerned about that. But hopefully,
(26:03):
hopefully we can reel it in in terms of like
a uh, you know, and playing nice. I like to
talk very very very nicely to my chat tribute. It
said please and thank you. You know, I tell it
it does a good job. Don't kill me later on.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, just the case.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Yeah please, I'm one of the good ones. I like you,
I talk good about you.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So guys break the rules. Rory, it was a pleasure
having you on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Thank you, Thanks for
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