July 7, 2023 • 47 mins
In this episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing Stefano Pochet, an industry expert who has left an indelible mark on the digital landscape.
As the founder of Nealab, Italy's largest social network, which he successfully sold to ciaopeople, Stefano has since ventured into the realms of growth marketing and Facebook ads across Italy, the United Kingdom, and Silicon Valley.
Today, he shares his invaluable expertise as a growth strategy consultant.
Join us as we delve into the fascinating world of advertising and witness how artificial intelligence is revolutionizing the industry. Stefano provides unique insights into the evolving landscape, discussing the transformative impact of AI on advertising strategies, the future of the advertising industry itself, and how the role of marketers is set to evolve.
Listen to the full episode for an in-depth exploration of AI's influence on advertising and gain expert insights from our Guest.
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https://amzn.to/3O2xFIx
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https://apify.com/
https://rapidapi.com/
👍 Follow our guest here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefanopochet/
🧲 Watch my free lead generation course:
https://gaito.link/skillshare
🤖 Watch my free ChatGPT course:
https://skl.sh/3ZKHFcV
🙏 Subscribe to the channel:
https://gaito.link/subscribe
📚 Download the Reading List:
https://gaito.link/gtbooks
As the founder of Nealab, Italy's largest social network, which he successfully sold to ciaopeople, Stefano has since ventured into the realms of growth marketing and Facebook ads across Italy, the United Kingdom, and Silicon Valley.
Today, he shares his invaluable expertise as a growth strategy consultant.
Join us as we delve into the fascinating world of advertising and witness how artificial intelligence is revolutionizing the industry. Stefano provides unique insights into the evolving landscape, discussing the transformative impact of AI on advertising strategies, the future of the advertising industry itself, and how the role of marketers is set to evolve.
Listen to the full episode for an in-depth exploration of AI's influence on advertising and gain expert insights from our Guest.
📚 Suggested books:
https://amzn.to/3O2xFIx
🛠 Suggested tools:
https://apify.com/
https://rapidapi.com/
👍 Follow our guest here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefanopochet/
🧲 Watch my free lead generation course:
https://gaito.link/skillshare
🤖 Watch my free ChatGPT course:
https://skl.sh/3ZKHFcV
🙏 Subscribe to the channel:
https://gaito.link/subscribe
📚 Download the Reading List:
https://gaito.link/gtbooks
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Show everyone, and welcome back toGrowth Talks. My name is Raphael Gaido
and I'm your host and my guesttoday is Stephano Pochet. Hi, Stephanol,
how are you. I'm good.Thanks for inviting here, Raphael.
It's a pleasure and I'm looking forwardfor our talk. Nice, nice,
nice, So Stephan, we usuallystart these conversations, you know, with
(00:26):
a classic one, with a simpleone. So let's look about yourself for
a while. You know, what'syour story, what's your background? Where
are you working nowadays? Yeah?Sure, I am Stepano Poche. I
am a growth engineer. I startedmy career as a software engineer, but
(00:48):
during university studies I developed a decialnetwork. We're talking about twenty years ago,
so his book was not there yet, and things went quite well.
I was able to sell the companyto show people, which was by the
time a small internet company in southernInternet now is the biggest digital media company,
and I was holding the position ofCiteo over there. But what I
(01:12):
was doing in both experiences, bothas an enterprene and Citeo, was actually
to apply software engineer into two foundergrowth. I was actually grow taca before
that, the grow tacher term wasa comment I would say. After that,
I decided to push my dream,which is basically a common dream among
software engineers and the growth takers inEurope, which was to work in Citicon
(01:36):
Valley and in UK, and Iworked in a couple of startups which was
very important experience also on a personallevel, on a professional level, and
specifically, I would say one experiencewhich was really building my career was the
one A Master which was which isstill today is a startup which works with
(02:00):
digital courses and I was holding theposition of head of growth and we had
also some investment was so I wasbasically directly managing the investment and I tie
different strategies, but to what workedvery well over there was Facebook Ads and
so thanks to Facebook Ads and tousing software engineering for Facebook Ads, I
(02:21):
was able to build a signify contentsteady growth over time and after sometimes I
decided also to leave UK more forpersonal reasons. I did like Italy and
I they came back to Italy forfor for personal reasons and basically I began
to be a consultant. Today Iwork as a growth engineer consultant here in
(02:46):
Italy. But I took with mealso with the knowledge of Facebook ads and
applying software engineering into Facebook ads andto growth in general. So for this
reason, I would say I'm agood engineer. But my society it's still
the books and as well my anglefrom where I do my my growth it's
(03:07):
always and it's still a software engineer, and I try to apply software engineering
and and and anything connected with technologyto all the growth strategies that I actually
built. Um lately, the lastexperience I did was actually something a bit
more personal. Things went well atthe job people, there was an exit,
(03:29):
so I decided to give a giftto myself, which was to study
again. I love a psychology andso basically I got a second degree last
month and now I am a softwareengineer and then psychology psychologists. Wow,
I love this because this is likemy uh, this is one of my
dreams actually, So the idea ofyou know, uh, starting starting again
(03:53):
to get a second degree. Ihave a degree in computer science, but
I always wanted to have a degreein philosophy or psychology. So probably in
the future somehow, I don't knowwhere, but I'm gonna do the same
thing. Uh well, something thatreally Oh sorry sorry, yeah, you
were saying I just want to saya word, Wally advise you to do.
(04:15):
So it was for a personal experience. It's really amasing a lot of
psychology. And I mean that's beenone of the best experience I need on
a personal level. Yeah. Nice. Nice. So when you were talking
before, one of these things thatreally resonated with me was the when you
said, probably I was doing growthhacking, you know before the world growth
(04:38):
hacking was invented. Um. AndI always describe myself in same in same
way. So in my past experience, you know, in my companies,
I've always done a lot of thoseyou know, tricks and strategies and you
know, and and and tactics togrow a software or to grow a business,
you know, a startup without reallyknowing you know, what I was
(05:00):
doing. And then you know,I realized and I understood that actually out
there there was you know, awhole word and then books you know,
and frameworks and experts on that.Uh. How was your experience on that?
So you were doing that, youdidn't know that it was called you
know, growth, growth marketing,growth hacking. Uh. You were just
(05:21):
you know, hands on doing thingsgrowing companies. And it was there a
moment when you actually realized, ohoh wait, someone out there, you
know, there is a name forthis, uh, and there is a
whole process you know, and methodologyfor this. Um. I think it
was a natural process. What Iwant to mean is that when I started
(05:44):
working on this, when I startedbeing a growth tacker, uh, there
was no no growth taking. Imean there was not even content about that.
It was really too early. Wewere talking about two thousand and four
thousand and five, but to giveup almost when years Why the brought up
in term I think was cointed abit later, like probably four or five
(06:04):
years later. So I think itwas a bit more natural. I think
it was also something like, youknow, there is a very good analogy
with that. Do you know theAGIAS technology yea, yeah, And basically
there were lots of software engineers whichwho were actually doing something very similar.
We're doing age ups before that.Actually the term ag X will actually content.
(06:28):
And so from this perspective, Ido believe that it's something a bit
more natural. If you I thinkthat if you were an enterproduct, if
you were a software engineer, andif you were building a company, there
was no other way around than tobe a group utter and then I think
that basically there was a bit morecontent development about that in the United States
and then the UK and then rubEurope, and also a definition of this
(06:51):
role began. But what I believeis that I think that, from my
perspective, brought up is basically theinterception of internet opprob being a software engineer
and working on marketing. That's whatI think it is. And I think
it was something about it twenty yearsago and it's still body nowadays. And
(07:11):
how important was your experiencing Silicon Valley? You said that, you know,
uh, you you were growing andyou decide that, you know, you
wanted to work in Silicon Valley andthen in the UK. Uh. And
I suppose you know in both places, Uh, the you know, the
atmosphere did they did the whole Uh, you know, they did the whole
(07:32):
situation and and and then the atmospherearound you know, those topics was quite
different, you know than eadily backthen. So how important was for you
to go there in Silicon Valley wherethey actually invented you know, growth,
hacking and working hands on in uh, you know, a different ecosystem,
(07:53):
a bigger one, you know,a more explosive one with more money,
more technology, more people. Ithink it was a very important experience for
myself from different perspective. Actually alsowhat a personal one, you know,
because going there by yourself alone andstarting almost from from nothing and trying to
build the reputation of that as well, it's been a very important and also
(08:16):
also from a management a level.And what I want to mean is that
in both in the United States andUK, the manager where the managers were
behaving quite differently. Actually the managerswere calling it in a specific way.
They were calling it hands up management. And actually that teaches me a lot
about actually how to work with growthtakers and how to manage creative people who
(08:43):
need the report space and creative towatch or express theirself. Talking specifically about
growth taking, I think that themost important thing that for me was actually
to have the possibility to manage investment. This sounds that happened at Mustered because
you know, if you want tofull real growth, you can use some
(09:07):
free challengls. Sometimes you can actuallydo something very good and very great and
do an impact with with the freechallengers, but usually it's not the case.
If you want to grow very good, you need to use advertising.
And this is what actually happened thatmustered and so from this perspective, but
I think that the most important experiencethat actually had over there was to actually
(09:30):
experience a real strong growth and beingthe responsible of the of the management of
the investment over there. This isprobably the most important experience I think I
got I took with me from fromUK and from US. And was it
back then then you started to workon Facebook cards, because you said that
(09:54):
your main focus today and also partof your experience was to you know,
do grow talking about also to doFacebook cards. Was it back then that
you started to work on Facebook cards. Yeah, precisely. What happened over
there was that until then, whenI was in Italy and those in the
States as well, I was usingalways free Challenge to a growth. So
(10:16):
when I joined the master that wehad an investment and I tried to leverage
free challenge. I tried everything Itried, you know, uh, scraping
and cold prospecting. I tried touse to leverage some Facebook groups. I
tried to leverage reserveal programs. Butthat programs they were good and some of
(10:37):
them were also working as well.But if you really want to grow fast,
if you really were, We won'tever impact. You have to use
advertising, and that's what we needmuster and so yes, when we began
to try Facebook cards, we triedas well YouTube, but we tried that
as well, linked in ads andinterest arts. But what happened was that
Facebook cards worked very well for us. It was I think for a specific
(11:03):
combination of reasons. One was thatMustard were doing courses about fashions and we
had important fashion artists to working withus, and so this is something which
drives a lot of engagement and alot of excitement and so ultimately a very
great social group which was working verywell with Facebook. Alds. And from
(11:24):
another perspective, I think we wereusing Facebook cards very well from a software
engineering side of the of the ofthe work. And so yes, I
mean this is where I began touse Facebook ads, is where I also
had the ability to and the possibilityto actually manage a symnifical investment with Facebook.
(11:45):
Alds. You said something really interesting. I want to know a bit
more about it. You said,if you want to really grow at some
point, you need money and youneed to run adds. What do you
mean by that? And also isthere a specific moment you think where you
(12:05):
know, a startup or a smallcompany should do you know this, let's
say a big step and also startingto have you know, page channels and
advertising. You're making me in mindmy manager Addi Labrado, who the CEO
master and who told me you needmoney to make money, and it also
(12:28):
actually very true. I think itwas very true. What I think is
that it's not I mean, itdepends a lot of the companies. It's
not always the same thing. Andalso it depends over time. I think
there was a time and talking abouttwenty years ago where you really didn't need
I mean, it was for surepossible to grow with my leveraging free channels.
(12:52):
But over time it's becoming more andmore important the usage of page channels,
full growth. It depends a lot, and for sure, from this
perspective, there are different things youcan do it that are also different moments
that you can apply advertising. UmI have seen advertising apply also two experiments,
so in very very early stage ofthe company. But probably I would
(13:16):
say generally speaking, when you area scale and when you were a product
working, when you were you weresomething that people who really want to buy
and are willing to buy that inthis moment of your of your product and
of your company life cycle, thenprobably it's the best in generally speaking use
case to use advertising to undergrowth andand and and today this kind of your
(13:43):
UM, I would say main activityor you know, one of your specialization,
uh, in your experience, whatare the biggest mistakes that you see
when company you know, try torun Facebook cards and they do something really
wrong. I don't know two orthree tips and tricks that you want to
(14:05):
share with us. This is verygood question. The first of one which
comes to my mind is um.You know, there is a lot of
talking about doing a by test andthen measure everything and and you know,
use a lot of math and statisticto your advertising, but you need to
(14:33):
be very careful when you do thatbecause often it's not the case to do
so, because when you want totry to apply mathematics to your your growth
strategies, you always have to rememberthat you need statistical evidence to do to
actually apply mathematics. And very often, for example, this is the case
for very early stage tatas which youdon't have enough traffick, you actually cannot
(14:56):
do that. In other situations,it's very common for example, when you
use books, that there are lotsof variables who are actually interferring with your
experiments and what you are actually doing. And for this reason, you might
see, for example that another isconverting at ten and arad is converting at
five, and you might think,oh, this is actually add is much
better than these others. But youalways have to remember there are some other
(15:18):
factors which would interfere with your strategyand keeping that in mind. Um or
sometimes it might happen that some advertisingwhich is working, which is working not
in the best way in a specificmoment in a basic scenario, import specific
variables who actually works better than anotheradvertising in another scenario in another context.
(15:41):
This is something that probably a lotof many companies do not really understand,
or not companies, but probably someof phycebook advertising or in really understand.
They probably just see, you know, towards converting in two different ways and
they just take it directing app comeout of that. But often it's not
(16:02):
the case, because you always alwayshave to consider the statistical relevance of what
you are actually working on. Canwe can we just sorry, I can
we just explain what is statistical relevance? Because maybe not everyone in my audience
know what that is. Yes,sure, this is actually something that ironically
(16:25):
that I've actually studied specifically while Iwas studying psychology, because now there's this
shift in psychology over objective studies,so very quickly, statistical evidence is basically
um when you do an experiment,basically you have to respect some context and
scenario to basically have some to beto be sure from a statistical perspective that
(16:52):
what you are doing it it hasan empirical evidence. So, for example,
very of what happens is that whenyou run an experiment and you show
these experiments to a small number ofusers for example, let's say one of
the users, and you get anoutcome from this experiment, which is conversionally
a district percent. Often the theamount of people you are showing that you
(17:18):
are showing your experiment might not beenough to have a statistical evidence, and
so an empirical way of demonstrating itto what you are actually that the compassionate
you have can actually be expanded tomore bigger audiences. Instead, you have
a bigger auditis for example, tenthousand people or one of the thousand people
(17:41):
who think you look at your experiment, then you can be more or less
safe and sure that what you aresaying it's actually as an empirical evidence and
so could also be applied to abigger your user base. And so your
cool reason what you work with verysmall startups which don't tap enough traffic,
(18:02):
you can really a ABIT tests,you cannot really runsial evidence, and it's
just better in those case to youknow, follow your gap, as they
say, and basically trying to actuallydo what you think is best and then
when you will left traffic to abitestand prove that what you're saying is true
whatnot. Yeah, well, Idon't know if you agree with me,
(18:22):
but usually what I say to myclients or to my student is that there
is a moment when you run experiencejust to discover things, and there is
a moment when you run experiments tooptimize things, and you don't have to
confuse those two moments. So Ithink it's probably the same thing that you
were saying before. Yeah, definitely, Okay, So this is the first
(18:45):
mistake. Do you have any moremistakes that you want to share with us?
I think it is something which hasto do with the probably the last
set that is happening on this bookups. So what I will do mean
is that in the last years,and actually more and more the last months,
the AI is becoming more and morerelevant. And so from misperspective,
(19:07):
personally, my goal is changing whenI structure Facebook ads, and it's not
anymore about you know, developing afasbook ad strategy, but what I do
instead it's basically making everything possible sothat the AI can actually deliver a great
Facebook ad strategy. So from misperspective, I think that you always have a
(19:30):
busy mind when you develop your ownstrategy, and you always have to make
everything possible to make the AI optimizeyour ads. For example, just to
be more specific, one two verysimple mistakes and that someone can do.
The first one would be to targettoo much, to micro target your your
segments and to micro target your audience. In this case, you will not
(19:51):
give the Facebook add algorithm with theopportunity to actually optimize and apply the AI
to optimize your targeting. And thesecond one, which I think is moment
is the most important one, isto not not to measure everything that you
can measure on Facebook cards. Ithink in this moment is important to measure
(20:15):
everything, and to give most seniorsyou can to Facebook cards and to really
keep that in mind. And thenthe most famous to have the best tracking
and reporting in place to make theAI, to have bigna seniors to actually
optimize your ads. So just tobe very quick, just to give you
the asal example, sometimes you spendtoo much on creative and you don't really
(20:40):
spend so much time on tracking andreporting. And actually, for me,
for what I can I'm actually seeingin the last years and more and more
even last month, it's actually betterto do the opposite, to not to
spend too much time on the creative, but to be also a bit more,
a bit more generalistic in your creative, but spend more at most time
(21:03):
as possible on tracking. If Facebookauds all the numbers you have and all
the things you have about your userbase, everything. This is probably the
most important advice I can give nowadayswhen the thing that Facebook cuts. Can
you give us an example of thesignals? What do you mean by that?
You said that it's really important touh, you know, the AI
(21:27):
needs to collect signals, and themore signals um the pattern the algorithm can
can optimize our campaigns. What doyou mean by that, what are some
example of signals that we can actuallyshare with you the Facebook, there are
there are many that you can do. For example, when you add someone
(21:48):
within your website, that person cando different actions. So you might think,
oh, I'm optimizing for sales orfor checkouts, I will just chuck
check out and says no, insteadtruck everything that user is doing. Truck
also when they add to cart all, also when they visit some some some
specific page, or also when theydo some specific events. But more specifically.
(22:11):
Also there are also some other toolseven use, which is for example,
one is Facebook Conversion CYPI and anotherone is Facebook Offline Events. Those
are for example too different tools youcan use to do something similar. But
actually you also should use those twotools in a slightly different way. The
(22:32):
first one, Facebook Conversion CPI,should be used more for the conversions that
you won't work in mind for whilethe second one should be used more for
measurement purpose. So from this perspective, when you web somemping for example happening
also the back end. So whenyou web, for example, someone qualify
your leads, you also should sendthis this event to Facebook cut backed when
(22:56):
you where someone doing and purchases froma FLNE you should also send this events
back to Facebook. And there arealso some other scenarios where you can do
also something with more advanced So forexample, again as I mentioned, these
two API that you can use fromFacebook, Facebook Conversations ABI and Facebook of
(23:19):
Flying Events are quite different, sovery quickly. The second one, Facebook
of Flying Events actually let you sendevents even after some time you said the
conversation happened, so you should reallymake advantage of that. You should send
the Conversations API if your time framewinds or between the purchase and someone seeing
(23:44):
your website, it is smaller,but if it's much longer than you should
use Facebook of f Line Events.In this way, you will basically optimize
and make sure that everything you cansend to Facebook you are actually sending it.
If you are enjoying this episode,please check out my lead generation course.
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(24:10):
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So what I am send from whatyou were saying is that especially nowadays with
(24:34):
the UM the whole situation about privacyand and GDPR and you know, UH
and new policies, and it's sinceit's always getting more difficult to collect third
part data, it's getting more importantto you know, use our own data.
(24:55):
So that's why you say, shouldyou should also integrate your back end
with your front end, you know, give this information to the AI.
Is the right? I mean,is there somehow connected also to the whole
you know, new privacy situation andthe difficulty to track sometimes and to have
data, you know, from thirdparty. Yeah, I mean, I
(25:17):
think you should do your best tomake everything possible to send all the data
you have, all the signiors youhave to Facebook ads of course, in
relations and in respect with the regulationsthat are in place, which yes,
are actually making feelings harder from someperspective to actually measure and track users.
(25:41):
Since you mentioned AI, and thisis probably one of the topics that we
I mean, we've had several guestshere on the post on podcast on this
topic. I was wondering, Um, you know, what's the situation AI
and advertising? So AI is takingover both in you know, meta ads
(26:06):
in Google Ads. It looks likethat from day point of view, they're
telling us, Okay, our algorithmsare working better than you, so give
us the information and let us doour job. Is this what's happening right
now? Yeah? I mean Ithink we are in a moment where things
(26:27):
are not clear yet. There areyou know, there is lots of potential.
There are lots of ways that AIwould be applied in very different ways.
For example, I'm making a strongusage of AI to when I actually
do code development, to basically tooptimize and to speed up my process.
(26:48):
From a Fisk perspective, there area lot of advancement that Facebook ads it's
doing from that um for example,they are trying to optimize that way you
are doing targeting all or they arealso trying to optimize in an automatic way
the way that we are actually buildingcreative by applying AI. But from what
(27:10):
it looks right now, from theposition that we are in this moment,
it looks like basically we are ina moment that we don't really know what
is happening. There are all theseexperiments that are happening in right now,
and we really don't know what isgoing to happen. From my personal perspective,
which is just a guess, Ithink that there are different scenario in
front of us. It's definitely possibleand probably it will happen that more and
(27:33):
more AI, which actual will actuallydo our job, and our job will
become more and more as a mensionsearlier to giving the right instructions to AI
and to make it possible for thetwo AI to actually build a great advertising
strategy. But again I think inthis moment, we are in a moment
(27:55):
where there is a lot of potentialeverything will happen and AI will be applied
to different parts of the advertising strategyfrom targeting to create it. But I
do believe that things are not clearright now. It's the same thing that
is also true for other fields whereAI is being applied. No one knows
(28:17):
yet if it will actually really happened, that that AI will be able to
drive cars. Many people think so. Many people think that will happen in
the next five years. Some otherpeople thinks that will happen in twenty years,
a few people thinks it will neverhappen, and I think we are
in a similor scenario with advertising.For sure, will be an impact,
but in this moment right now,it's not really clear how much is impact
(28:40):
will be will be strong staying onthat, as you said before, AI
is changing the way we do ourjobs, and so of course chargebity is
changing the way copywriters are doing theirjob, and the same is for I
don't know, graphic designers, fordevelopers because of the tools that nowadays we
(29:06):
have and we can use. Howis your job changing? I mean,
I mean your job, I meanthe whole category. So if someone today
is listening to this podcast and theyrun advertising because they are I don't know,
freelance or marketing agency, you know, a marketer running adds, how
is your job changing? And howyou can keep your job in this new
(29:30):
era with you know, AI doingmost of the hard work behind the scene
of you know, advertising campaign.This is a very good question. Personally,
I am doing my best to youknow, really understand JAGPT and how
we can actually have my job.There are some scenarios where I actually am
(29:53):
already using it from a marketing perspective, for example, one of the of
thesest copy writing. But I'm usingit a bit more when actually doing software
development. As I management, thereis a lot of software development that I
apply to this book cards. Sofrom this perspective, using chattypty or similar
tools like copilot from guthab it isactually very important. It's actually making possible
(30:19):
for me to develop code in dramaticless time. It's it's like a significally
difference. Probably something that probably wouldhave taken me to two days to development
now is just take three four hours. And also what's changing from this pererspective
is also you know, the wayI'm actually working, what I'm actually doing
(30:42):
with chactivity, It's not to makechattipty to develop the copy or to develop
the code. What I'm actually doingis basically too I am kind of a
software architect in this way. SoI'm basically dividing all the code that I'm
doing in smaller portion, and thenI'm giving these smaller portions to chattipity,
(31:03):
which is actually making the you know, the grammar side of the coding or
the grammar side of the marketing.And after that what I'm doing is actually
to review the code. So frommis perspective, I would say, I'm
using chattiqty to optimize speed up mymy my job, but also to make
it a bit more creative and loseless time on the grammar side, and
(31:26):
you know, which would also beapplied both on the English grammar side and
also on the code grammar side.So I'm spending less time in doing low
level jobs and I'm built spending moretime in doing in actually doing high level
job at the game. I dobelieve we are just in the beginning.
(31:48):
No one knows what is going tohappen. It might happen as well in
ten years most of the marketing jobof the software or the software generally job
which I will actually be made byAI. No one knows where we are
actually going. So can we saythat the uh can we say that professionals
(32:09):
should move a more you know,towards a more strategic level. Um,
I mean, if I decide topay someone to run my arts or you
know, to write my copies orto write my code, I pay them
for the strategic you know, approachand the ideas that they can bring into
(32:32):
the job. Yeah, I definitelybelieve. So, I definitely believe that
the most safe place that we cango right now if we want to,
you know, to keep our joband to be relevant in the market,
it's definitely move to a more strategic, strategic strategic areas. And also from
this perspective, I think it canalso happen have knowledge of different films.
(32:58):
So for example, in this moment, if you have knowledge about TOTA engineering,
but as well knowledge from marketing order, as well knowledge of product,
it can help you do things becauseI think that in the fusion where we're
moving, it would be more andmore important to do creative jobs and to
do more strategic jobs than it istoday. So I definitely agree with that.
(33:21):
That's I love this and I thinkthis is a topic that came up
several times here on podcast, theidea of you know, being a T
shaped marketer. There are several namesthey use for it, but basically what
you were saying is, you know, you need more skills. It's important
to be you know, vertical ora topic, but you need more skills
in this area if you want tokeep working and you know, using AI
(33:46):
and whatever. And in terms oftrends, of course AI is probably the
biggest one. We all know that, but in terms of trends. What
are the trends that you are seeingtoday in the advertising world and especially in
Facebook cards. Uh, is theresomething really important that we should know that
(34:07):
it's going to impact our campaigns inthe next couple of years. This is
a good question, of course,and book that answer at the AI,
but we really had chopped a lotabout AI. Probably the second one which
I've seen more and more relevant rightnow. I think it's personal branding.
And I think that personal branding ishaving more and more impact today for companies
(34:30):
as well. I have seen,for example, yesterday in an announcement from
LinkedIn that they are going to letpeople do advertising also on their personal profile,
which was impossible until yesterday to doso. And I think from from
this perspective it's become it's becoming moreand more important, you know, to
(34:53):
to to invest in personal branding andalso to u leverage correctly your personal your
personal aspect of the company, soto be a bit more open of our
of your personal aspects of the company, of the your employee, and how
(35:15):
actually you know, to be moretransparent about the company, what actually is
working and it's happening on that anythingelse that you think it's important, and
it's going to be It's going tohave an important impact on you know,
(35:35):
Facebook cards and marketing campaigns in thenext couple of years. Uh something anythink
For example, I do believe thatsoftware engineering, for example marketing automation apply
to Facebook cards can also be veryrelevant UM as well probably integrations between in
(36:00):
different products. For example, Ithink that we have not seen the best
of the of the integration between World'sUp and other message is a messages tools
inside the Facebook advertising. This couldactually be something that actually would be relevant
in the future. Facebook is metActually it's very um. You know,
(36:24):
they are trying to evolve either toput a lot of advertising on the World's
Up. But from my perspective toutuallyit's actually very um. It might be
a very effective way of channeling resultsand channeling groups. I think that's somehow
(36:44):
inevitable. They are probably postponing it, but it's somehow inevitable UM and UM.
Talking of integrations and messaging, somethingthat I really loved is you know
when Tragepity when they announced you know, the possibility of using UM websites and
(37:06):
tools, you know, everything integratedinside the chart. It's kind of you
know, now I can see,you know, the future of that tool,
and a future where we not onlyuse ragupty, you know to ask
questions like you know, write methe scopy, give me ideas, you
know, create this content, butwe can actually use ragupty, I would
(37:28):
say, as a kind of personalassistant. You know, so buy me
tickets or you know, buy megroceries or you know whatever, plan my
next holidays, whatever. How canwe leverage that is that you know,
something that you think it's important forus, you know, as our entrepreneurs
(37:49):
and marketers in that niche. Itis a very good question. Actually developed
the plug in for chaps called ItalyGreatest News. You know, is just
an experiment for now, Let's justunderstand how the market is working, how
work is the amount of traffic Icould get from there, and also how
(38:12):
the development is working. It's actuallyvery interesting because if you are applying it
to develop a plug in, youit's basically you have to basically do that
through an intercom chat. There isno other way around. From now,
it's um it's very experimental. Fromnow, it's really the beginning of this
UM. From this perspective, Ithink that um, there are for sure
(38:36):
I mean, we are still,as I mentioned earlier, we are when
we're talking about CHARGPT and AI,we are still in the very beginning of
this. We are still in thein in a moment where films are not
clear for now. There are lotsof lots of lots of tools that are
actually going up right now. Butthere is one of an examples that one
(38:58):
commone industry that I think that willactually be discribed by this and it is
slated with the marketing, which isprobably you know tatas scraping and scraping automation,
because if you think about that,it's probably the first one, the
first type of software or one ofthe first one which could very quickly be
(39:19):
actually be programmed by using natural language. So I think that we are what
we are probably the first one thatwill actually be we have a revolutionary very
off very quickly will actually be theyou know, the scraping and very soon
we will have the ability to watchor is create a website by just telling
the tools what we want to scrapeand you know which website, what takes
(39:45):
start and so on. This isprobably one of the first examples because it
is something I think it would beeasily automated. But again, as I
mentioned, I think we are invery early stage of this, and there
are tons of syberis and you knowfrom from marketing analysis to compact your analysis.
(40:06):
You know, for example, oneone one good example of what I
am saying is AUDOGPT. If youtry to use AUDOGPT basically you will see
that there is a huge potential,but actually it does not work. I'll
try the myself, and also I'veread some blogs about that. If you
(40:28):
really try to use that, youwould see that it has a huge power.
But if you if you basically tellalgogpt to develop a complete strategy,
compit marketing strategy and to build creativesand to build even technologies behind your marketing
strategy, he at the end won'tbe able to achieve a complete product.
He will try it will it willbe impressive what we will try to do,
(40:52):
but at the end it won't beable to do. So, however,
it might happen in a few years. It might happen that someone will
be able to actually to develop thetool which is basically other GPT but actually
working. You never know. Yeah, it's much important. It's very important,
as you mentioned earlier, to movemore and more in the strategic side,
(41:15):
and to a more understanding about othersides of the business, to be
more what you're doing. And probablythe most important thing, the first one,
I mean for marketers, entrepreneurs,but I would say for everyone is
to actually study, uh, thosetools. I mean, if you are
(41:35):
kind of scared of what's happening outthere, the worst thing that you can
do is, you know, justput your end under the stand and you
know, and ignore the whole AIrevolution and and and be scared. But
if you start studying those tools,maybe somehow you can find you know the
way, uh, they can actuallyhelp you doing your job, improve your
(41:59):
job, optimize your job, makeyou more efficient in your job. Um.
And and I love the example ofautogpt because when I saw I think
I saw like a tutorial or ademo or something, I was shocked.
I mean I was using ragypty forumfour months, maybe five months or something
(42:22):
like that. Uh, and Iwas kind of confident, you know,
oh, now we have these cooltools, you know, we can do
a lot of different things. Uh. And then I saw a demo of
autogpty and in one second, rajupityfelt so old and limited. I say,
oh, my god, this isthe future, right, soly not
(42:43):
this one. It's impressive, it'samazing. If you use that tool,
it's really amazing. It's impressive.But at the end, it actually does
not work. I mean, itdoes not work properly. It's not able
to actually finish in a proper way. But where or you are wanting to
do or at least now a humanperson a person likely be able to do
the same and in a much betterway. Yeah, yeah, I agree
(43:07):
with you. But the idea ofyou know, those agents somehow, I
don't know. I'm super excited aboutit. I really want to want to
see something that works and what wecan do with it. Yeah, I
love it. I love it.I love it, so Stephano. Usually,
you know, when we reach theend of these conversations, we talk
(43:30):
a little bit about books and tools. So I always ask my guests to
share with us some I don't know, cool books, something that you are
reading right now, or something thatyou know you have read in the past
but it was somehow important for you. So is there any books that you
want to share with us? AndI mentioned earlier I am in love for
(43:54):
psychology, so I want to shareprobably one of the most interesting book I've
read, which is a bio Energyby Alexander Logan, which is a psychology
perspective which basically mesh together the bodyand emotional side with the connitive side.
(44:20):
It's very interesting and I would sayit has been very important for me,
both on a personal perspective, butwould timidly also on a professional and probably
also you know, talking about themood professional side, I would say I
like it. John Luomer the blog, I mean I follow his blog,
(44:42):
and I think that he probably doesa good job of you know, explaining
his strategies and what he's doing.And I do follow him talking talking about
tools, probably talking about tools thatare servers and several others that I use.
(45:04):
Uh. As I mentioned earlier,I use a lot of you know,
I'm a software engineered so probably Iwould mention PHP my adment, which
I use a lot. It's akind of a job because you know,
it's software engineering, so it's notreally relevant for advertising, but I actually
do use it or every way.I would say I would advise people to
to learn to use that A baseis to learn squl and learn cqulum.
(45:28):
From another perspective, probably I wouldadvise um Appify and the RABIDPI, which
are tools that you can use bothfor for UM you know, quick deployment
deployment of some scripts that you areactually doing and rabid DBI. Actually it
say it's a place where you canfind lots of dbis um that can help
(45:52):
you doing your job and speed upyour your your software development efforts. Cool
cool of course, as usual,I will leave all the links in the
description of the episode, both thebooks and and the tools. Steven or
before saying bye, do you havean online presence? Is there somewhere where
(46:15):
they can read you? Follow youLinkedIn Twitter? I don't know something some
links that you want to share withus LinkedIn? You should follow me or
LinkedIn? Yeah, okay perfect.I will leave your LinkedIn the description as
well. Steven, thank you somuch for your time. Was great talking
(46:35):
to you. Thank you Afable invitingme here. Thanks for listening to this
episode of the podcast. I hopeyou enjoyed it and you'll learn something new.
Make sure to subscribe to us onYouTube and Spotify to stay updated on
new episodes. With your support,I can continue to bring great content and
great guest to this podcast. Sohere the subscribe button now and I'll see
(46:57):
you in the next episode.
Show everyone, and welcome back toGrowth Talks. My name is Raphael Gaido
and I'm your host and my guesttoday is Stephano Pochet. Hi, Stephanol,
how are you. I'm good.Thanks for inviting here, Raphael.
It's a pleasure and I'm looking forwardfor our talk. Nice, nice,
nice, So Stephan, we usuallystart these conversations, you know, with
(00:26):
a classic one, with a simpleone. So let's look about yourself for
a while. You know, what'syour story, what's your background? Where
are you working nowadays? Yeah?Sure, I am Stepano Poche. I
am a growth engineer. I startedmy career as a software engineer, but
(00:48):
during university studies I developed a decialnetwork. We're talking about twenty years ago,
so his book was not there yet, and things went quite well.
I was able to sell the companyto show people, which was by the
time a small internet company in southernInternet now is the biggest digital media company,
and I was holding the position ofCiteo over there. But what I
(01:12):
was doing in both experiences, bothas an enterprene and Citeo, was actually
to apply software engineer into two foundergrowth. I was actually grow taca before
that, the grow tacher term wasa comment I would say. After that,
I decided to push my dream,which is basically a common dream among
software engineers and the growth takers inEurope, which was to work in Citicon
(01:36):
Valley and in UK, and Iworked in a couple of startups which was
very important experience also on a personallevel, on a professional level, and
specifically, I would say one experiencewhich was really building my career was the
one A Master which was which isstill today is a startup which works with
(02:00):
digital courses and I was holding theposition of head of growth and we had
also some investment was so I wasbasically directly managing the investment and I tie
different strategies, but to what workedvery well over there was Facebook Ads and
so thanks to Facebook Ads and tousing software engineering for Facebook Ads, I
(02:21):
was able to build a signify contentsteady growth over time and after sometimes I
decided also to leave UK more forpersonal reasons. I did like Italy and
I they came back to Italy forfor for personal reasons and basically I began
to be a consultant. Today Iwork as a growth engineer consultant here in
(02:46):
Italy. But I took with mealso with the knowledge of Facebook ads and
applying software engineering into Facebook ads andto growth in general. So for this
reason, I would say I'm agood engineer. But my society it's still
the books and as well my anglefrom where I do my my growth it's
(03:07):
always and it's still a software engineer, and I try to apply software engineering
and and and anything connected with technologyto all the growth strategies that I actually
built. Um lately, the lastexperience I did was actually something a bit
more personal. Things went well atthe job people, there was an exit,
(03:29):
so I decided to give a giftto myself, which was to study
again. I love a psychology andso basically I got a second degree last
month and now I am a softwareengineer and then psychology psychologists. Wow,
I love this because this is likemy uh, this is one of my
dreams actually, So the idea ofyou know, uh, starting starting again
(03:53):
to get a second degree. Ihave a degree in computer science, but
I always wanted to have a degreein philosophy or psychology. So probably in
the future somehow, I don't knowwhere, but I'm gonna do the same
thing. Uh well, something thatreally Oh sorry sorry, yeah, you
were saying I just want to saya word, Wally advise you to do.
(04:15):
So it was for a personal experience. It's really amasing a lot of
psychology. And I mean that's beenone of the best experience I need on
a personal level. Yeah. Nice. Nice. So when you were talking
before, one of these things thatreally resonated with me was the when you
said, probably I was doing growthhacking, you know before the world growth
(04:38):
hacking was invented. Um. AndI always describe myself in same in same
way. So in my past experience, you know, in my companies,
I've always done a lot of thoseyou know, tricks and strategies and you
know, and and and tactics togrow a software or to grow a business,
you know, a startup without reallyknowing you know, what I was
(05:00):
doing. And then you know,I realized and I understood that actually out
there there was you know, awhole word and then books you know,
and frameworks and experts on that.Uh. How was your experience on that?
So you were doing that, youdidn't know that it was called you
know, growth, growth marketing,growth hacking. Uh. You were just
(05:21):
you know, hands on doing thingsgrowing companies. And it was there a
moment when you actually realized, ohoh wait, someone out there, you
know, there is a name forthis, uh, and there is a
whole process you know, and methodologyfor this. Um. I think it
was a natural process. What Iwant to mean is that when I started
(05:44):
working on this, when I startedbeing a growth tacker, uh, there
was no no growth taking. Imean there was not even content about that.
It was really too early. Wewere talking about two thousand and four
thousand and five, but to giveup almost when years Why the brought up
in term I think was cointed abit later, like probably four or five
(06:04):
years later. So I think itwas a bit more natural. I think
it was also something like, youknow, there is a very good analogy
with that. Do you know theAGIAS technology yea, yeah, And basically
there were lots of software engineers whichwho were actually doing something very similar.
We're doing age ups before that.Actually the term ag X will actually content.
(06:28):
And so from this perspective, Ido believe that it's something a bit
more natural. If you I thinkthat if you were an enterproduct, if
you were a software engineer, andif you were building a company, there
was no other way around than tobe a group utter and then I think
that basically there was a bit morecontent development about that in the United States
and then the UK and then rubEurope, and also a definition of this
(06:51):
role began. But what I believeis that I think that, from my
perspective, brought up is basically theinterception of internet opprob being a software engineer
and working on marketing. That's whatI think it is. And I think
it was something about it twenty yearsago and it's still body nowadays. And
(07:11):
how important was your experiencing Silicon Valley? You said that, you know,
uh, you you were growing andyou decide that, you know, you
wanted to work in Silicon Valley andthen in the UK. Uh. And
I suppose you know in both places, Uh, the you know, the
atmosphere did they did the whole Uh, you know, they did the whole
(07:32):
situation and and and then the atmospherearound you know, those topics was quite
different, you know than eadily backthen. So how important was for you
to go there in Silicon Valley wherethey actually invented you know, growth,
hacking and working hands on in uh, you know, a different ecosystem,
(07:53):
a bigger one, you know,a more explosive one with more money,
more technology, more people. Ithink it was a very important experience for
myself from different perspective. Actually alsowhat a personal one, you know,
because going there by yourself alone andstarting almost from from nothing and trying to
build the reputation of that as well, it's been a very important and also
(08:16):
also from a management a level.And what I want to mean is that
in both in the United States andUK, the manager where the managers were
behaving quite differently. Actually the managerswere calling it in a specific way.
They were calling it hands up management. And actually that teaches me a lot
about actually how to work with growthtakers and how to manage creative people who
(08:43):
need the report space and creative towatch or express theirself. Talking specifically about
growth taking, I think that themost important thing that for me was actually
to have the possibility to manage investment. This sounds that happened at Mustered because
you know, if you want tofull real growth, you can use some
(09:07):
free challengls. Sometimes you can actuallydo something very good and very great and
do an impact with with the freechallengers, but usually it's not the case.
If you want to grow very good, you need to use advertising.
And this is what actually happened thatmustered and so from this perspective, but
I think that the most important experiencethat actually had over there was to actually
(09:30):
experience a real strong growth and beingthe responsible of the of the management of
the investment over there. This isprobably the most important experience I think I
got I took with me from fromUK and from US. And was it
back then then you started to workon Facebook cards, because you said that
(09:54):
your main focus today and also partof your experience was to you know,
do grow talking about also to doFacebook cards. Was it back then that
you started to work on Facebook cards. Yeah, precisely. What happened over
there was that until then, whenI was in Italy and those in the
States as well, I was usingalways free Challenge to a growth. So
(10:16):
when I joined the master that wehad an investment and I tried to leverage
free challenge. I tried everything Itried, you know, uh, scraping
and cold prospecting. I tried touse to leverage some Facebook groups. I
tried to leverage reserveal programs. Butthat programs they were good and some of
(10:37):
them were also working as well.But if you really want to grow fast,
if you really were, We won'tever impact. You have to use
advertising, and that's what we needmuster and so yes, when we began
to try Facebook cards, we triedas well YouTube, but we tried that
as well, linked in ads andinterest arts. But what happened was that
Facebook cards worked very well for us. It was I think for a specific
(11:03):
combination of reasons. One was thatMustard were doing courses about fashions and we
had important fashion artists to working withus, and so this is something which
drives a lot of engagement and alot of excitement and so ultimately a very
great social group which was working verywell with Facebook. Alds. And from
(11:24):
another perspective, I think we wereusing Facebook cards very well from a software
engineering side of the of the ofthe work. And so yes, I
mean this is where I began touse Facebook ads, is where I also
had the ability to and the possibilityto actually manage a symnifical investment with Facebook.
(11:45):
Alds. You said something really interesting. I want to know a bit
more about it. You said,if you want to really grow at some
point, you need money and youneed to run adds. What do you
mean by that? And also isthere a specific moment you think where you
(12:05):
know, a startup or a smallcompany should do you know this, let's
say a big step and also startingto have you know, page channels and
advertising. You're making me in mindmy manager Addi Labrado, who the CEO
master and who told me you needmoney to make money, and it also
(12:28):
actually very true. I think itwas very true. What I think is
that it's not I mean, itdepends a lot of the companies. It's
not always the same thing. Andalso it depends over time. I think
there was a time and talking abouttwenty years ago where you really didn't need
I mean, it was for surepossible to grow with my leveraging free channels.
(12:52):
But over time it's becoming more andmore important the usage of page channels,
full growth. It depends a lot, and for sure, from this
perspective, there are different things youcan do it that are also different moments
that you can apply advertising. UmI have seen advertising apply also two experiments,
so in very very early stage ofthe company. But probably I would
(13:16):
say generally speaking, when you area scale and when you were a product
working, when you were you weresomething that people who really want to buy
and are willing to buy that inthis moment of your of your product and
of your company life cycle, thenprobably it's the best in generally speaking use
case to use advertising to undergrowth andand and and today this kind of your
(13:43):
UM, I would say main activityor you know, one of your specialization,
uh, in your experience, whatare the biggest mistakes that you see
when company you know, try torun Facebook cards and they do something really
wrong. I don't know two orthree tips and tricks that you want to
(14:05):
share with us. This is verygood question. The first of one which
comes to my mind is um.You know, there is a lot of
talking about doing a by test andthen measure everything and and you know,
use a lot of math and statisticto your advertising, but you need to
(14:33):
be very careful when you do thatbecause often it's not the case to do
so, because when you want totry to apply mathematics to your your growth
strategies, you always have to rememberthat you need statistical evidence to do to
actually apply mathematics. And very often, for example, this is the case
for very early stage tatas which youdon't have enough traffick, you actually cannot
(14:56):
do that. In other situations,it's very common for example, when you
use books, that there are lotsof variables who are actually interferring with your
experiments and what you are actually doing. And for this reason, you might
see, for example that another isconverting at ten and arad is converting at
five, and you might think,oh, this is actually add is much
better than these others. But youalways have to remember there are some other
(15:18):
factors which would interfere with your strategyand keeping that in mind. Um or
sometimes it might happen that some advertisingwhich is working, which is working not
in the best way in a specificmoment in a basic scenario, import specific
variables who actually works better than anotheradvertising in another scenario in another context.
(15:41):
This is something that probably a lotof many companies do not really understand,
or not companies, but probably someof phycebook advertising or in really understand.
They probably just see, you know, towards converting in two different ways and
they just take it directing app comeout of that. But often it's not
(16:02):
the case, because you always alwayshave to consider the statistical relevance of what
you are actually working on. Canwe can we just sorry, I can
we just explain what is statistical relevance? Because maybe not everyone in my audience
know what that is. Yes,sure, this is actually something that ironically
(16:25):
that I've actually studied specifically while Iwas studying psychology, because now there's this
shift in psychology over objective studies,so very quickly, statistical evidence is basically
um when you do an experiment,basically you have to respect some context and
scenario to basically have some to beto be sure from a statistical perspective that
(16:52):
what you are doing it it hasan empirical evidence. So, for example,
very of what happens is that whenyou run an experiment and you show
these experiments to a small number ofusers for example, let's say one of
the users, and you get anoutcome from this experiment, which is conversionally
a district percent. Often the theamount of people you are showing that you
(17:18):
are showing your experiment might not beenough to have a statistical evidence, and
so an empirical way of demonstrating itto what you are actually that the compassionate
you have can actually be expanded tomore bigger audiences. Instead, you have
a bigger auditis for example, tenthousand people or one of the thousand people
(17:41):
who think you look at your experiment, then you can be more or less
safe and sure that what you aresaying it's actually as an empirical evidence and
so could also be applied to abigger your user base. And so your
cool reason what you work with verysmall startups which don't tap enough traffic,
(18:02):
you can really a ABIT tests,you cannot really runsial evidence, and it's
just better in those case to youknow, follow your gap, as they
say, and basically trying to actuallydo what you think is best and then
when you will left traffic to abitestand prove that what you're saying is true
whatnot. Yeah, well, Idon't know if you agree with me,
(18:22):
but usually what I say to myclients or to my student is that there
is a moment when you run experiencejust to discover things, and there is
a moment when you run experiments tooptimize things, and you don't have to
confuse those two moments. So Ithink it's probably the same thing that you
were saying before. Yeah, definitely, Okay, So this is the first
(18:45):
mistake. Do you have any moremistakes that you want to share with us?
I think it is something which hasto do with the probably the last
set that is happening on this bookups. So what I will do mean
is that in the last years,and actually more and more the last months,
the AI is becoming more and morerelevant. And so from misperspective,
(19:07):
personally, my goal is changing whenI structure Facebook ads, and it's not
anymore about you know, developing afasbook ad strategy, but what I do
instead it's basically making everything possible sothat the AI can actually deliver a great
Facebook ad strategy. So from misperspective, I think that you always have a
(19:30):
busy mind when you develop your ownstrategy, and you always have to make
everything possible to make the AI optimizeyour ads. For example, just to
be more specific, one two verysimple mistakes and that someone can do.
The first one would be to targettoo much, to micro target your your
segments and to micro target your audience. In this case, you will not
(19:51):
give the Facebook add algorithm with theopportunity to actually optimize and apply the AI
to optimize your targeting. And thesecond one, which I think is moment
is the most important one, isto not not to measure everything that you
can measure on Facebook cards. Ithink in this moment is important to measure
(20:15):
everything, and to give most seniorsyou can to Facebook cards and to really
keep that in mind. And thenthe most famous to have the best tracking
and reporting in place to make theAI, to have bigna seniors to actually
optimize your ads. So just tobe very quick, just to give you
the asal example, sometimes you spendtoo much on creative and you don't really
(20:40):
spend so much time on tracking andreporting. And actually, for me,
for what I can I'm actually seeingin the last years and more and more
even last month, it's actually betterto do the opposite, to not to
spend too much time on the creative, but to be also a bit more,
a bit more generalistic in your creative, but spend more at most time
(21:03):
as possible on tracking. If Facebookauds all the numbers you have and all
the things you have about your userbase, everything. This is probably the
most important advice I can give nowadayswhen the thing that Facebook cuts. Can
you give us an example of thesignals? What do you mean by that?
You said that it's really important touh, you know, the AI
(21:27):
needs to collect signals, and themore signals um the pattern the algorithm can
can optimize our campaigns. What doyou mean by that, what are some
example of signals that we can actuallyshare with you the Facebook, there are
there are many that you can do. For example, when you add someone
(21:48):
within your website, that person cando different actions. So you might think,
oh, I'm optimizing for sales orfor checkouts, I will just chuck
check out and says no, insteadtruck everything that user is doing. Truck
also when they add to cart all, also when they visit some some some
specific page, or also when theydo some specific events. But more specifically.
(22:11):
Also there are also some other toolseven use, which is for example,
one is Facebook Conversion CYPI and anotherone is Facebook Offline Events. Those
are for example too different tools youcan use to do something similar. But
actually you also should use those twotools in a slightly different way. The
(22:32):
first one, Facebook Conversion CPI,should be used more for the conversions that
you won't work in mind for whilethe second one should be used more for
measurement purpose. So from this perspective, when you web somemping for example happening
also the back end. So whenyou web, for example, someone qualify
your leads, you also should sendthis this event to Facebook cut backed when
(22:56):
you where someone doing and purchases froma FLNE you should also send this events
back to Facebook. And there arealso some other scenarios where you can do
also something with more advanced So forexample, again as I mentioned, these
two API that you can use fromFacebook, Facebook Conversations ABI and Facebook of
(23:19):
Flying Events are quite different, sovery quickly. The second one, Facebook
of Flying Events actually let you sendevents even after some time you said the
conversation happened, so you should reallymake advantage of that. You should send
the Conversations API if your time framewinds or between the purchase and someone seeing
(23:44):
your website, it is smaller,but if it's much longer than you should
use Facebook of f Line Events.In this way, you will basically optimize
and make sure that everything you cansend to Facebook you are actually sending it.
If you are enjoying this episode,please check out my lead generation course.
You can watch it for free onGuido, dot link, slash skill
Share g Ai T. As anentrepreneur, marketer or business owner, you
(24:10):
know how crucial lead generation is.In this course, I'll be sharing with
you twenty proven tactics for lead generationin both B to B and B two
C markets. You can watch itfor free on guido, dot link slash
skill Share g AI t oh.You'll find the link in the description.
So what I am send from whatyou were saying is that especially nowadays with
(24:34):
the UM the whole situation about privacyand and GDPR and you know, UH
and new policies, and it's sinceit's always getting more difficult to collect third
part data, it's getting more importantto you know, use our own data.
(24:55):
So that's why you say, shouldyou should also integrate your back end
with your front end, you know, give this information to the AI.
Is the right? I mean,is there somehow connected also to the whole
you know, new privacy situation andthe difficulty to track sometimes and to have
data, you know, from thirdparty. Yeah, I mean, I
(25:17):
think you should do your best tomake everything possible to send all the data
you have, all the signiors youhave to Facebook ads of course, in
relations and in respect with the regulationsthat are in place, which yes,
are actually making feelings harder from someperspective to actually measure and track users.
(25:41):
Since you mentioned AI, and thisis probably one of the topics that we
I mean, we've had several guestshere on the post on podcast on this
topic. I was wondering, Um, you know, what's the situation AI
and advertising? So AI is takingover both in you know, meta ads
(26:06):
in Google Ads. It looks likethat from day point of view, they're
telling us, Okay, our algorithmsare working better than you, so give
us the information and let us doour job. Is this what's happening right
now? Yeah? I mean Ithink we are in a moment where things
(26:27):
are not clear yet. There areyou know, there is lots of potential.
There are lots of ways that AIwould be applied in very different ways.
For example, I'm making a strongusage of AI to when I actually
do code development, to basically tooptimize and to speed up my process.
(26:48):
From a Fisk perspective, there area lot of advancement that Facebook ads it's
doing from that um for example,they are trying to optimize that way you
are doing targeting all or they arealso trying to optimize in an automatic way
the way that we are actually buildingcreative by applying AI. But from what
(27:10):
it looks right now, from theposition that we are in this moment,
it looks like basically we are ina moment that we don't really know what
is happening. There are all theseexperiments that are happening in right now,
and we really don't know what isgoing to happen. From my personal perspective,
which is just a guess, Ithink that there are different scenario in
front of us. It's definitely possibleand probably it will happen that more and
(27:33):
more AI, which actual will actuallydo our job, and our job will
become more and more as a mensionsearlier to giving the right instructions to AI
and to make it possible for thetwo AI to actually build a great advertising
strategy. But again I think inthis moment, we are in a moment
(27:55):
where there is a lot of potentialeverything will happen and AI will be applied
to different parts of the advertising strategyfrom targeting to create it. But I
do believe that things are not clearright now. It's the same thing that
is also true for other fields whereAI is being applied. No one knows
(28:17):
yet if it will actually really happened, that that AI will be able to
drive cars. Many people think so. Many people think that will happen in
the next five years. Some otherpeople thinks that will happen in twenty years,
a few people thinks it will neverhappen, and I think we are
in a similor scenario with advertising.For sure, will be an impact,
but in this moment right now,it's not really clear how much is impact
(28:40):
will be will be strong staying onthat, as you said before, AI
is changing the way we do ourjobs, and so of course chargebity is
changing the way copywriters are doing theirjob, and the same is for I
don't know, graphic designers, fordevelopers because of the tools that nowadays we
(29:06):
have and we can use. Howis your job changing? I mean,
I mean your job, I meanthe whole category. So if someone today
is listening to this podcast and theyrun advertising because they are I don't know,
freelance or marketing agency, you know, a marketer running adds, how
is your job changing? And howyou can keep your job in this new
(29:30):
era with you know, AI doingmost of the hard work behind the scene
of you know, advertising campaign.This is a very good question. Personally,
I am doing my best to youknow, really understand JAGPT and how
we can actually have my job.There are some scenarios where I actually am
(29:53):
already using it from a marketing perspective, for example, one of the of
thesest copy writing. But I'm usingit a bit more when actually doing software
development. As I management, thereis a lot of software development that I
apply to this book cards. Sofrom this perspective, using chattypty or similar
tools like copilot from guthab it isactually very important. It's actually making possible
(30:19):
for me to develop code in dramaticless time. It's it's like a significally
difference. Probably something that probably wouldhave taken me to two days to development
now is just take three four hours. And also what's changing from this pererspective
is also you know, the wayI'm actually working, what I'm actually doing
(30:42):
with chactivity, It's not to makechattipty to develop the copy or to develop
the code. What I'm actually doingis basically too I am kind of a
software architect in this way. SoI'm basically dividing all the code that I'm
doing in smaller portion, and thenI'm giving these smaller portions to chattipity,
(31:03):
which is actually making the you know, the grammar side of the coding or
the grammar side of the marketing.And after that what I'm doing is actually
to review the code. So frommis perspective, I would say, I'm
using chattiqty to optimize speed up mymy my job, but also to make
it a bit more creative and loseless time on the grammar side, and
(31:26):
you know, which would also beapplied both on the English grammar side and
also on the code grammar side.So I'm spending less time in doing low
level jobs and I'm built spending moretime in doing in actually doing high level
job at the game. I dobelieve we are just in the beginning.
(31:48):
No one knows what is going tohappen. It might happen as well in
ten years most of the marketing jobof the software or the software generally job
which I will actually be made byAI. No one knows where we are
actually going. So can we saythat the uh can we say that professionals
(32:09):
should move a more you know,towards a more strategic level. Um,
I mean, if I decide topay someone to run my arts or you
know, to write my copies orto write my code, I pay them
for the strategic you know, approachand the ideas that they can bring into
(32:32):
the job. Yeah, I definitelybelieve. So, I definitely believe that
the most safe place that we cango right now if we want to,
you know, to keep our joband to be relevant in the market,
it's definitely move to a more strategic, strategic strategic areas. And also from
this perspective, I think it canalso happen have knowledge of different films.
(32:58):
So for example, in this moment, if you have knowledge about TOTA engineering,
but as well knowledge from marketing order, as well knowledge of product,
it can help you do things becauseI think that in the fusion where we're
moving, it would be more andmore important to do creative jobs and to
do more strategic jobs than it istoday. So I definitely agree with that.
(33:21):
That's I love this and I thinkthis is a topic that came up
several times here on podcast, theidea of you know, being a T
shaped marketer. There are several namesthey use for it, but basically what
you were saying is, you know, you need more skills. It's important
to be you know, vertical ora topic, but you need more skills
in this area if you want tokeep working and you know, using AI
(33:46):
and whatever. And in terms oftrends, of course AI is probably the
biggest one. We all know that, but in terms of trends. What
are the trends that you are seeingtoday in the advertising world and especially in
Facebook cards. Uh, is theresomething really important that we should know that
(34:07):
it's going to impact our campaigns inthe next couple of years. This is
a good question, of course,and book that answer at the AI,
but we really had chopped a lotabout AI. Probably the second one which
I've seen more and more relevant rightnow. I think it's personal branding.
And I think that personal branding ishaving more and more impact today for companies
(34:30):
as well. I have seen,for example, yesterday in an announcement from
LinkedIn that they are going to letpeople do advertising also on their personal profile,
which was impossible until yesterday to doso. And I think from from
this perspective it's become it's becoming moreand more important, you know, to
(34:53):
to to invest in personal branding andalso to u leverage correctly your personal your
personal aspect of the company, soto be a bit more open of our
of your personal aspects of the company, of the your employee, and how
(35:15):
actually you know, to be moretransparent about the company, what actually is
working and it's happening on that anythingelse that you think it's important, and
it's going to be It's going tohave an important impact on you know,
(35:35):
Facebook cards and marketing campaigns in thenext couple of years. Uh something anythink
For example, I do believe thatsoftware engineering, for example marketing automation apply
to Facebook cards can also be veryrelevant UM as well probably integrations between in
(36:00):
different products. For example, Ithink that we have not seen the best
of the of the integration between World'sUp and other message is a messages tools
inside the Facebook advertising. This couldactually be something that actually would be relevant
in the future. Facebook is metActually it's very um. You know,
(36:24):
they are trying to evolve either toput a lot of advertising on the World's
Up. But from my perspective toutuallyit's actually very um. It might be
a very effective way of channeling resultsand channeling groups. I think that's somehow
(36:44):
inevitable. They are probably postponing it, but it's somehow inevitable UM and UM.
Talking of integrations and messaging, somethingthat I really loved is you know
when Tragepity when they announced you know, the possibility of using UM websites and
(37:06):
tools, you know, everything integratedinside the chart. It's kind of you
know, now I can see,you know, the future of that tool,
and a future where we not onlyuse ragupty, you know to ask
questions like you know, write methe scopy, give me ideas, you
know, create this content, butwe can actually use ragupty, I would
(37:28):
say, as a kind of personalassistant. You know, so buy me
tickets or you know, buy megroceries or you know whatever, plan my
next holidays, whatever. How canwe leverage that is that you know,
something that you think it's important forus, you know, as our entrepreneurs
(37:49):
and marketers in that niche. Itis a very good question. Actually developed
the plug in for chaps called ItalyGreatest News. You know, is just
an experiment for now, Let's justunderstand how the market is working, how
work is the amount of traffic Icould get from there, and also how
(38:12):
the development is working. It's actuallyvery interesting because if you are applying it
to develop a plug in, youit's basically you have to basically do that
through an intercom chat. There isno other way around. From now,
it's um it's very experimental. Fromnow, it's really the beginning of this
UM. From this perspective, Ithink that um, there are for sure
(38:36):
I mean, we are still,as I mentioned earlier, we are when
we're talking about CHARGPT and AI,we are still in the very beginning of
this. We are still in thein in a moment where films are not
clear for now. There are lotsof lots of lots of tools that are
actually going up right now. Butthere is one of an examples that one
(38:58):
commone industry that I think that willactually be discribed by this and it is
slated with the marketing, which isprobably you know tatas scraping and scraping automation,
because if you think about that,it's probably the first one, the
first type of software or one ofthe first one which could very quickly be
(39:19):
actually be programmed by using natural language. So I think that we are what
we are probably the first one thatwill actually be we have a revolutionary very
off very quickly will actually be theyou know, the scraping and very soon
we will have the ability to watchor is create a website by just telling
the tools what we want to scrapeand you know which website, what takes
(39:45):
start and so on. This isprobably one of the first examples because it
is something I think it would beeasily automated. But again, as I
mentioned, I think we are invery early stage of this, and there
are tons of syberis and you knowfrom from marketing analysis to compact your analysis.
(40:06):
You know, for example, oneone one good example of what I
am saying is AUDOGPT. If youtry to use AUDOGPT basically you will see
that there is a huge potential,but actually it does not work. I'll
try the myself, and also I'veread some blogs about that. If you
(40:28):
really try to use that, youwould see that it has a huge power.
But if you if you basically tellalgogpt to develop a complete strategy,
compit marketing strategy and to build creativesand to build even technologies behind your marketing
strategy, he at the end won'tbe able to achieve a complete product.
He will try it will it willbe impressive what we will try to do,
(40:52):
but at the end it won't beable to do. So, however,
it might happen in a few years. It might happen that someone will
be able to actually to develop thetool which is basically other GPT but actually
working. You never know. Yeah, it's much important. It's very important,
as you mentioned earlier, to movemore and more in the strategic side,
(41:15):
and to a more understanding about othersides of the business, to be
more what you're doing. And probablythe most important thing, the first one,
I mean for marketers, entrepreneurs,but I would say for everyone is
to actually study, uh, thosetools. I mean, if you are
(41:35):
kind of scared of what's happening outthere, the worst thing that you can
do is, you know, justput your end under the stand and you
know, and ignore the whole AIrevolution and and and be scared. But
if you start studying those tools,maybe somehow you can find you know the
way, uh, they can actuallyhelp you doing your job, improve your
(41:59):
job, optimize your job, makeyou more efficient in your job. Um.
And and I love the example ofautogpt because when I saw I think
I saw like a tutorial or ademo or something, I was shocked.
I mean I was using ragypty forumfour months, maybe five months or something
(42:22):
like that. Uh, and Iwas kind of confident, you know,
oh, now we have these cooltools, you know, we can do
a lot of different things. Uh. And then I saw a demo of
autogpty and in one second, rajupityfelt so old and limited. I say,
oh, my god, this isthe future, right, soly not
(42:43):
this one. It's impressive, it'samazing. If you use that tool,
it's really amazing. It's impressive.But at the end, it actually does
not work. I mean, itdoes not work properly. It's not able
to actually finish in a proper way. But where or you are wanting to
do or at least now a humanperson a person likely be able to do
the same and in a much betterway. Yeah, yeah, I agree
(43:07):
with you. But the idea ofyou know, those agents somehow, I
don't know. I'm super excited aboutit. I really want to want to
see something that works and what wecan do with it. Yeah, I
love it. I love it.I love it, so Stephano. Usually,
you know, when we reach theend of these conversations, we talk
(43:30):
a little bit about books and tools. So I always ask my guests to
share with us some I don't know, cool books, something that you are
reading right now, or something thatyou know you have read in the past
but it was somehow important for you. So is there any books that you
want to share with us? AndI mentioned earlier I am in love for
(43:54):
psychology, so I want to shareprobably one of the most interesting book I've
read, which is a bio Energyby Alexander Logan, which is a psychology
perspective which basically mesh together the bodyand emotional side with the connitive side.
(44:20):
It's very interesting and I would sayit has been very important for me,
both on a personal perspective, butwould timidly also on a professional and probably
also you know, talking about themood professional side, I would say I
like it. John Luomer the blog, I mean I follow his blog,
(44:42):
and I think that he probably doesa good job of you know, explaining
his strategies and what he's doing.And I do follow him talking talking about
tools, probably talking about tools thatare servers and several others that I use.
(45:04):
Uh. As I mentioned earlier,I use a lot of you know,
I'm a software engineered so probably Iwould mention PHP my adment, which
I use a lot. It's akind of a job because you know,
it's software engineering, so it's notreally relevant for advertising, but I actually
do use it or every way.I would say I would advise people to
to learn to use that A baseis to learn squl and learn cqulum.
(45:28):
From another perspective, probably I wouldadvise um Appify and the RABIDPI, which
are tools that you can use bothfor for UM you know, quick deployment
deployment of some scripts that you areactually doing and rabid DBI. Actually it
say it's a place where you canfind lots of dbis um that can help
(45:52):
you doing your job and speed upyour your your software development efforts. Cool
cool of course, as usual,I will leave all the links in the
description of the episode, both thebooks and and the tools. Steven or
before saying bye, do you havean online presence? Is there somewhere where
(46:15):
they can read you? Follow youLinkedIn Twitter? I don't know something some
links that you want to share withus LinkedIn? You should follow me or
LinkedIn? Yeah, okay perfect.I will leave your LinkedIn the description as
well. Steven, thank you somuch for your time. Was great talking
(46:35):
to you. Thank you Afable invitingme here. Thanks for listening to this
episode of the podcast. I hopeyou enjoyed it and you'll learn something new.
Make sure to subscribe to us onYouTube and Spotify to stay updated on
new episodes. With your support,I can continue to bring great content and
great guest to this podcast. Sohere the subscribe button now and I'll see
(46:57):
you in the next episode.
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