August 21, 2025 • 26 mins
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Decorated Combat VeteranCorporate; U.S. Marine Corps Urban Warfare Instrictor;
S.R.T. Commander Active Shooter Response Team
Law Enforcement Los Angeles Police (L.A.P.D.) Police Officer / Fugitive Recovery
F.B.I. Instructor N.R.A Instructor
Competition Shooter; Multi Time State Rifle Pistol Champion
Hunting; Life Long Hunter Proffessional Hunter and Guide
Private Security Contractor; Several Agencies, Current.
GOD Provides / JESUS Saves
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gunfighter-life-survival-guns-tactical-hunting--4187306/support.
Have a Blessed Day
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is going on gunfighters. I thought today we would
talk about the three to zero eight for survival. The
three oh weight for survival is a topic we've likely
danced around and talked about, but I don't know if
I've ever dedicated an entire episode on philosophy of the
(00:24):
three zero eight. Part of the reason I'm doing this
is I recently did a poll on Patreon for the
patrons and asked what would your go to survival long
gun caliber be? And a big chunk of them voted
for three oh eight more than two two three, more
than three fifty seven magnum right, their go to survival
(00:47):
caliber and a long gun would be three oh eight.
It was winning at some point. I don't know if
it was winning last I checked the or winning now.
But it's a big chunk of the survival population. So
I thought, I'm here to serve you. Let's talk about
three o eight philosophy. And I was just going to
jump into best survival three o eights, but I think
this would be better as a two parter. So today
(01:10):
we're going to talk about why the three oh eight.
Welcome to Gunfighter Life, the podcast where we talk about guns,
gun fighting tactics, ballistics the right way, with God at
the center, Judeo Christian values, and real world firsthand experience.
I am blessed to serve you as host Bio in
the show notes. Blessed be the Lord of my rock,
(01:33):
who trains my hands for war and fingers for battle. Okay,
let's talk about the three to oh eight. Now, might
upset some people, but there's really nothing crazy special about
the three oh eight. If it has any superpower at all,
(01:58):
it's economy of scale. And that doesn't sound like much
of a superpower, Like what would your superpower be, It'd
be economy of scale. But that really is why the
three all weight is the de facto, you know, full
powered rifle cartridge of today, and that's why it's popular
for survival and for many other things because economy of scale.
(02:21):
If you look at the price that you can get,
like dirt cheap three oh eight, it's going to be
the cheapest full powered center fire rifle round unless there's
some just weird sale going on. But if you go
to like Amo seek or some other search engine and
day to day, month to month, three all weight is
going to be the most affordable center fire rifle round.
(02:44):
It's also likely going to be the most available. Like
it or not, it just is. There was a time,
you know, not that long ago, after the end of
the Cold War, where you know seven sixty by thirty
nine or or seven sixty by fifty four? Are you
get the giant spam cans for next and nothing? Those
days are gone right now. If you want a full
(03:05):
powered and seven sixty x thirty nine is not a
full powered rife around, it's in their immediate cartridge. But
those days are gone right now. It's three o eight
and I don't see that changing anytime soon, right I
don't see the two seven to seven furious you're planting
the three o eight anytime in the near future. As
far as most popular rifle round, that is why it
(03:29):
is the de facto centerfire rifle round and the most
available generally the most affordable. But I wanted to get
that out there first because there's nothing super special about
the three weight. Don't think that I'm saying that the
three OA is ballistically better than so many other rounds
you could make. I mean, there's ten other rounds I
could name that are better for certain things than three
(03:50):
oh eight. So don't think that I'm saying that three
O eight has got some crazy attributes as far as
that goes. It's not the best long range sniping round,
not that that's important for survival, but it's not the
best white tail D round. It's not the best ELK round,
it's not the best XYZ round, but it is a
good round. Then it is the most common and the
(04:12):
most available. We'll dive into a little bit of the
history of the three to zero eight. It's probably nothing
new if you're into firearms. Of firearms history obviously went
through both World Wars with the thirty out six, which
obviously was around since thirty out six. And if you
look at the original military loading of the thirty out six,
(04:32):
you know, it's nothing super special. You can get a
lot hotter loaded thirty out six today. But they looked
at that original military loading and the US military they
were happy with it. They were happy with the performance
of it, and happy with it in machine guns, happy
with it in rifles, and they said, how can we
get this performance to make it a little bit more efficient,
(04:53):
you know, as you might imagine powders and things had
gotten better from nineteen oh three, which when it was
originally designed to the nineteen fifties when they were looking
at replacing it, so they pretty much duplicated the performance
of the original thirty out six load. Now, calm down,
it's not equal to a thirty out six because you
can with better powders load the thirty out six better.
(05:13):
But they said, how can we duplicate the original or
are current military loading in thirty out six? How can
we do that in a shorter, handier package, And the
three oweight was born. I think nineteen fifty four stands
out in my mind. I could be wrong about that.
I'm not going to look it up, but the mid
fifties is when the thirty out six got developed, and
(05:34):
I think Winchester beat it to market the seven to
sixty by fifty one NATO and they came out on
the civilian market a year or two before with the
three oh eight. And back then the short action it
wasn't really a term a thing, but three oway has
become so popular that three oweight has become the de
facto length for a short action character. So when you
see short action it's pretty much three oweight length and
(05:55):
a bunch of its other let's say grandchildren that are
based on the three to eight cartridge. But that's your
short action now, that doesn't make a lot of difference
for you and I I think short action versus long action,
I think there's a lot more you know, Internet debate
about that than there needs to be. You know, if
(06:16):
you're doing landing craft going up on a beach, the
fact that you can carry you know, a couple of
thousand more rounds, you know, for the carrying capacity, that
makes a difference. If you're talking about aircraft flying AMMO
into a war zone, the fact that it's lighter and
smaller in packaging, that makes a big difference for the
US Army, for the US Marine Corps. I don't think
(06:38):
you're gonna notice a difference you for your standard load out.
If you're let's say, carrying one hundred rounds, I don't
think you're gonna notice a lot of weight difference between
thirty ouh six and three oh weight, So not as
big a difference as a lot of people might say.
And running a bolt action long action versus standard action,
I don't think you're really going to notice a difference
there either. Now the rifle is gonna be a little
(06:59):
bit lighter a little bit handier. So there's there is that,
but I think there's a lot more Internet debate about
that than is really important. But the three oh eight
comes on the scene, and ironically, for as good as
a cartridge, as as good a cartridge as it is,
it has one of the shortest lived you know, service
(07:20):
life as a mainline infantry rifle. It came out and
the M fourteen and fourteen had some issues. The very
quickly the Air Force and the the other branches started
looking at the M sixteen A one, and that got
adopted pretty quickly into pretty pretty quickly in Vietnam, so
(07:45):
it missed Korea. The M fourteen and it got replaced
pretty early in Vietnam, so it didn't see a long
service life. Now we still use a three oz eight
today and other platforms. We still use it in designated
Martian platforms. We use it mostly in machine guns and
media machine guns two forty golf, two forty bravos, so
(08:06):
it stuck around for that. Many other NATO countries adopted
the three oh weight the foul. It was used by
a ton of countries, but it was used enough by
US and others to get it firmly established as a
really really popular cartridge, and of course it coming out
(08:28):
in three o eight, Winchester and Winchester and a bunch
of other companies chambering for it has made it very
popular for hunting and hunting something that I it's one
of my go to rounds for hunting, and I could
use a bunch of rounds, right, I could use a
lot of different rounds. But going back to it's it's
kind of superpower. I like three oh weight. I like
to shoot three o eight. I can shoot it a lot,
(08:50):
I can shoot it affordably. I can probably find a
load that my rifle likes because there's a bunch of
different loads available in it, and it's a good performer
as far as pretty much anything in North America. Now
it wouldn't be my go to choice for you know,
coastal brown bear in Alaska, but pretty much anything else
it will do. Now. They're better cartridges settle down. There
(09:12):
are better moose cartridges, there are better elk cartridges. But plenty,
plenty of people hunt moose and elk with three oh eight,
so it certainly can be done. It's a good, good cartridge.
It's a good, well balanced, mild mannered cartridge. So it's
a good hunting cartridge. It's a very good white tailed
deer cartridge's a good elk cartridge. It is good for
(09:36):
pretty much any charismatic megafauna again outside coastal brown bears
or something like that. It's fine for black bear, it's
fine for many things, and it's good it's got de symballistics,
kind of the vanilla load that stands out in my
head how I remember different loads. Let's say you're talking
one hundred and fifty grains at twenty eight hundred feet
a second. It's a full powered, potent thirty caliber rifle round,
(10:01):
and of course that's a decent for defense. I'm not
going to turn this into the debate on threeh eight
versus five five six. I think I've probably done that
in the past. I've done over if there's over a
thousand episodes summer reruns, but I've done a lot of episodes.
I'd be surprised if I hadn't done an entire episode
on three eight versus five five six. So I'm not
(10:21):
going to turn this into that. But what I will
say is that five five six is an intermediate rifle round,
and it's kind of low on the intermediate rifle round spectrum.
It's an intermediate rifle round. Three oh eight is a
full powered rifle round. They're not the same. Now, they
(10:47):
both advantages of disvantages. Again, I'm not going to dig
into that. Obviously, the threewaight is heavier, but it's more powerful.
So how does this tie in for survival? Well, if
you're into survival, I kind of and I don't think
(11:08):
I came up with this, but let's call it the
duality of survival criteria. And you may there's people. I
don't know. I suppose there's people. It may just be
more of a TV thing. I don't have television. But
back when I used to watch more stuff, there was
doomsday preppers, right, and they would always pick this thing
(11:29):
I'm prepping for I don't know, the zombie hordes from Chicago,
or I'm just making stuff up. They probably never said that,
but they were preparing for a specific thing. I don't
see the future. I don't. I'm not going to pretend
that I do. I don't know what the future holds.
But if you look at the Bible, the Word of God,
which I consider truth, period and science and history, civilizations
(11:53):
collapse countries fail. It's what they do. Disasters happen. I
think I have to convince anybody of that. But getting
back to the duality of what I think is important
for survival, there is eating things that long guns are
(12:13):
useful for eating, putting food on the table, and defending yourself.
Now I'm not saying the three O eight is the
best for that. In fact, I would often say, if
there's no caveats, I would pick a twelve gage, but
that's not the topic for today. If you do pick
a three eight, many reasons people do pick a three
O eight is three oaight again is dcent four hunting
(12:34):
large game. It's not much good for small game. It'll
certainly kill it, but the whole point of view killing
it and survival situation is to eat it. So it's
not great for that. The three oh eight is a
good medium sized game. But before you think that, you're
gonna hunt your way in the apocalypse. And I love
hunting right I live where I live largely four hunting.
(12:55):
I'm looking at right now as I'm recording, I'm sitting
outside because it's a nice day and there's mountains of
mountains upon mountains of wild land behind me deer and
elk and bear, and you know, all manner of things wolves.
So that's a little bit different. Though most people live
east of the Mississippi. Look at what happens to the
(13:17):
deer population east of the Mississippi during the depression. There
are far less people east of the Mississippi during the
depression there are today. You might think there's deer everywhere.
Most people don't hunt deer just for food like they
might hunt deer and eat deer, meaning they heat a
couple of deer a year, and they eat a couple
of deer year. But look at the deer population east
(13:38):
of the Mississippi, and look at the people population east
of the Mississippi. And this is not hard science, right,
but I've heard several places that a mountain lion, which
is about the weight of a very lightweight human, a
mountain lion, which we have around here too, they eat
something like one deer every week if they're just eating deer,
(13:59):
to serve something like one full size deer a year
a week, which is fifty something deer a year, that
survival math doesn't add up. Those deer that are around
won't be around very long. So I don't know how
how realistic that is, but I guess in the short
term it will certainly obviously take a deer. It is
(14:20):
a good deer hunting round and if you're looking for
like your one rifle that you're generally just gonna deer
hunt with, but if something bad happens, you have it. Yeah,
I three O eight is a good good choice for that,
perhaps the best, not ballistically, but the best as far
as your one choice for your center fire, full powered rifle.
It's a good deer cartridge and there's a lot of
(14:40):
really good deer ammo available for it, or a lot
of really good soft point or whatever your go to
r Remington corelock or if you like solid coppers, a TSX.
There's a lot of really good hunting rounds for the
three to eight. So it's a good it's a good
big game rifle. Now, now again, whether big game hunting
(15:02):
is going to be feasible for survival in your area,
that's a different debate. But if you are going to
do that, three O eight is a good choice, and
it's available and widely available and affordable, so that's kind
of its big strength there. It's also available in many
(15:23):
many let's call them fighting rifle platforms like full powered
battle rifle cartridges. I mentioned some of the ones from
the Cold War. I don't think many of them stand
up today. We'll get into that later in the in
the best you know Survival three all eights, God willing
if we get to that episode. But there are a
(15:43):
lot of really good fighting rifles chambered in it, anything
from a Scar seventeen, a Scar heavy to you know,
going back to the old Cold War stuff, the foul.
There are a lot of good go to fighting rifles
chambered in three o eight. There's also the scout rifle concept,
(16:04):
of which I use a scout rifle. I have a
scout rifle sitting behind the seat of my truck. It's
kind of a good all around manual transmission, meaning you
got to operate it yourself. But a scout rifle, they're
generally in three o eight. They can be in other things.
But Jeff Cooper's kind of idea was based on the
three O eight, which tells you he was a fan
of the three to eight. There's a lot of really
(16:28):
good survival options in three oh eight. Now we've heretofore
talked about a lot of the attributes of the three
to eight and it has many some of the drawbacks. Well,
the major one why the military quickly went away from
it in a in a let's sayin main frontline issued
(16:51):
infantry rifle. They kept their for other things. But why
they went away from it, and that is the AMO
is heavy, heavier than an intermediate cartridge, so you have
to carry that. And unlike the US Army the US
Air Force, you're not gonna have entire moss of people
whose entire job it is to get you the AMO
that you need, get you the supplies that you need.
(17:12):
You unless you have, like I don't know, some pretty
legit group, you are gonna be your own resupply. And
if you do have to bug out, leave and carry
the AMMO you can carry on your body, you're gonna
carry a lot less of it with three oh eight.
And as we aforementioned, not great for small game, it's
good for big game, and it's good for defensive use,
(17:33):
offensive use. It's good for fighting. But that is a
raging debate right on what's better. Would you rather have
a couple of rounds of five, five, six? It would
you rather have less rounds of three to eight? But
that are more effective round per round. It really depends.
It depends on you, your location, your skill level, your
(17:54):
ability to control recoil. It depends on many things. But
one of the big downsizes it is heavier. So that
is something to be aware of. Another thing to be
aware of. It's going to cost more round per round now,
as far as full powered center fire rifle cartridges go,
it's going to cost more round per round, quite a
(18:17):
bit more than some of the other options. Some of
the other things that people often look too for survival
are twenty two long rifle. Now, it's a huge difference
in price per round between twenty two long rifle and
three await. It's also a huge difference in effectiveness round
per round. But let's just say you're just getting started out.
Like the whole one gun debate for you is not
actually philosophical because you don't have a lot of money,
(18:40):
you're a college student, or you just don't have a
lot of money. I grew up poor. I get it.
And you're only going to have, at least for a while,
one gun. You're only going to have like a gun
because that's all you can afford. You have other stuff
to do to get ready to you know, get prepared.
So you're only going to have one gun. And if
you're trying to have one gun and stockpile ammunition, if
you're on a budget, you can stockpile a lot, lot
(19:03):
more twenty two long rifle then you can three oh eight.
And I'm not saying it's a better choice. I'm saying
if that you, you know, maybe you can't even afford a
decent three weight, But if even if you could, you're
gonna let's say you could afford twenty or forty rounds
a three eight, but you could have several thousand rounds
of a twenty two long rifle. And there's the same debate.
(19:23):
If you're gonna carry it, you're gonna carry what one
hundred rounds and three oweight you can carry thousands of
rounds of twenty two long rifle. So there's that issue,
and maybe not issue, just maybe thing for you to
internally wrestle with the other thing is five five six
not as drastic therever you're gonna be able to afford
(19:45):
more and store more five five six. Now the rifles
are probably gonna cost roughly the same, with the exception
of the AR fifteen. The air fifteens are crazy affordable nowadays,
but you could get a bolt action three weight in
the same price range. So there, there's that, And I
think more important than that is your ability to train.
(20:06):
I don't care what caliber you have if you're not
good with it, if you can't hit your target with it,
kind of useless, right. It's not the noise that you make.
It's not it's not how cool it looks on Instagram
or I don't have Instagram, but it's not. It's not that.
It's you getting hits on target. And you know what
allows you to get hits on target? Training? Training does? Competition?
(20:29):
Does taking classes? Does practicing does? You're gonna be able
to practice more with twenty two long rifle or five
five six if you want to go to centerfire, you're
gonna be able to practice more than you will with
three oh eight. Now, you could practice with those and
then and then also practice a little bit with your
three o eight, So you're competent with the three oh eight.
(20:51):
You certainly can do that. I'm all for it. But
if you're just gonna have the one and you're gonna
train with the one, you're gonna be able to train
more as as price and weight and space goes with
the five five six, So that is something to consider
with the three O eight. Now I'm not trying to
(21:12):
talk to about a three eight. Here's where I land
on it. If you said the apocalypse is gonna happen,
and no other no other things like the end of
the world as we know it, the peanut, butter and
chocolate is hitting the fan soon, no other caveats you
gotta leave on foot. You can take a long gun.
I would take a twelve gage shotgun. Going back to
the feeding yourself, like, I live in the wild West,
(21:34):
like rugged, gnarly country with both kinds of bear and
wolves and mountain lions and deer and elk dip you know,
both white tail and mule deer and and elk and
moose and all manner of things. Right, I live in
that kind of you know, Idaho Wayoming Montana area, and
I do that on purpose. But even here I would
(21:57):
probably take a shotgun. I took my elk last year
with a shot It'll take anything in North America, but
I can scale it down. I can also hunt grouse
with it. I can also hunt other things with it.
So it's when it comes to being flexible and putting
food on the table. Nothing rivals the shotgun for that.
But if you said there were some other caveats and
I might want a rifle, then the internal debate rages
(22:20):
on what I would carry. I don't live in a
very densely populated area on purpose, right, And I got
this from Viking Preparedness, somebody of whom I'm a patron of.
But population density matters. People behaving badly matters. Whatever percentage
of population is going to behave badly in a certain
situation where there's a lot more people, there's a lot
(22:42):
more people behaving badly. I don't live in one of
those areas, so you know, if I did, I might
want to be able to carry more ammo. But if
you said I was a rifle was going to be
advantageous and I had to pick one rifle, I would
pick a three zero eight for me because of where
I am. I'm not saying that's the best for you,
but for me for a rifle. If I had to
(23:02):
pick a rifle, it would be three oh eight. So
there is that. So I do think it's probably the
best rifle round for me for survival. If I had
to pick only one. Now, this is all philosophy, you know,
professional firearms philosopher, But uh, I want to cover God
(23:29):
Willing in a future episode the best survival three O eights? Like,
what are some of the best survival three eights? If
you think, yeah, three O eight is my jam, I'm
gonna get on that train and that's gonna be my
survival caliber or a survival caliber for me, because hopefully
we don't ever have to end up in that situation
long term, we only have one long gun. Like it's
a it's a cool thought experiment, but but hopefully you
(23:52):
have a battery of guns, but you want three oaight
to be part of that. What are some of the
best three eights for survival on the market today? And
there are a lot of three owights on the market today,
and the majority of them, I would say, don't meet
this criteria, don't meet what I would call a good
survival gun. Now, of course many of them are going
to be better than a sharp stick, but that doesn't
make them a good choice for survival. What do I
(24:14):
think are some of the best survival three O weights
today or that have been made in yesteryear that you
can still get and are still decently available, not like
some crazy Hen's teeth rifle, but available affordable, decent survival
three ow weights on the market. So hopefully you're subscribed,
(24:36):
like subscribe, leave review so you can get that episode
when it comes out. If you're not already subscribed, plan
on putting it out early in ad free on Patreon,
just one of the things. They get a lot of
content they're only going to get on Patreon, and a
lot of other things that get to vote, they get
to interact. If you're interested, check out Patreon. Closing out
(24:59):
with a tactical verse of the day if you're new here.
That's something I often like to do. This morning, I
was actually reading you shall not have in your bag
differing weights heavy and a light. You shall not have
in your house. Differing measures are large and small. You
shall have a perfect and adjust weight in a perfect
unadjust measure. You should judge things soberly. I like the
(25:21):
three O eight. The three O eight is not a
super weapon. If you're picking three O eight for Bravado
and it doesn't make logical sense, it might not be
the right choice. And I think a lot of men
get certain firearms for Bravado when they don't make any
logical sense, like I don't know, like a desert eagle
or I don't know a five hundred smit them less
and so, And you might just want the one because
(25:42):
they're cool and they're fun, and that's fine if your
money and you know, that's great. If you have the money,
you earned it justly and you want to spend it
on that, there's nothing wrong with that. But don't try
to make it a logical choice. Just realize that it
is what it is. But don't pick the three eight
off my cheese more because it's some super weapon. It's not.
(26:03):
It's a decent full powered rifle round. As far as
full powered rifle rounds go, it's not even that powerful.
But it is a full powered rifle round. It's a decent,
decent choice for that. But just make sure we look
at things soberly. Anyway. With that, guys, I appreciate you.
(26:24):
I appreciate all that you do. Hope you're a regular
listener or you listen again in the future, and have
a blessed day.
What is going on gunfighters. I thought today we would
talk about the three to zero eight for survival. The
three oh weight for survival is a topic we've likely
danced around and talked about, but I don't know if
I've ever dedicated an entire episode on philosophy of the
(00:24):
three zero eight. Part of the reason I'm doing this
is I recently did a poll on Patreon for the
patrons and asked what would your go to survival long
gun caliber be? And a big chunk of them voted
for three oh eight more than two two three, more
than three fifty seven magnum right, their go to survival
(00:47):
caliber and a long gun would be three oh eight.
It was winning at some point. I don't know if
it was winning last I checked the or winning now.
But it's a big chunk of the survival population. So
I thought, I'm here to serve you. Let's talk about
three o eight philosophy. And I was just going to
jump into best survival three o eights, but I think
this would be better as a two parter. So today
(01:10):
we're going to talk about why the three oh eight.
Welcome to Gunfighter Life, the podcast where we talk about guns,
gun fighting tactics, ballistics the right way, with God at
the center, Judeo Christian values, and real world firsthand experience.
I am blessed to serve you as host Bio in
the show notes. Blessed be the Lord of my rock,
(01:33):
who trains my hands for war and fingers for battle. Okay,
let's talk about the three to oh eight. Now, might
upset some people, but there's really nothing crazy special about
the three oh eight. If it has any superpower at all,
(01:58):
it's economy of scale. And that doesn't sound like much
of a superpower, Like what would your superpower be, It'd
be economy of scale. But that really is why the
three all weight is the de facto, you know, full
powered rifle cartridge of today, and that's why it's popular
for survival and for many other things because economy of scale.
(02:21):
If you look at the price that you can get,
like dirt cheap three oh eight, it's going to be
the cheapest full powered center fire rifle round unless there's
some just weird sale going on. But if you go
to like Amo seek or some other search engine and
day to day, month to month, three all weight is
going to be the most affordable center fire rifle round.
(02:44):
It's also likely going to be the most available. Like
it or not, it just is. There was a time,
you know, not that long ago, after the end of
the Cold War, where you know seven sixty by thirty
nine or or seven sixty by fifty four? Are you
get the giant spam cans for next and nothing? Those
days are gone right now. If you want a full
(03:05):
powered and seven sixty x thirty nine is not a
full powered rife around, it's in their immediate cartridge. But
those days are gone right now. It's three o eight
and I don't see that changing anytime soon, right I
don't see the two seven to seven furious you're planting
the three o eight anytime in the near future. As
far as most popular rifle round, that is why it
(03:29):
is the de facto centerfire rifle round and the most
available generally the most affordable. But I wanted to get
that out there first because there's nothing super special about
the three weight. Don't think that I'm saying that the
three OA is ballistically better than so many other rounds
you could make. I mean, there's ten other rounds I
could name that are better for certain things than three
(03:50):
oh eight. So don't think that I'm saying that three
O eight has got some crazy attributes as far as
that goes. It's not the best long range sniping round,
not that that's important for survival, but it's not the
best white tail D round. It's not the best ELK round,
it's not the best XYZ round, but it is a
good round. Then it is the most common and the
(04:12):
most available. We'll dive into a little bit of the
history of the three to zero eight. It's probably nothing
new if you're into firearms. Of firearms history obviously went
through both World Wars with the thirty out six, which
obviously was around since thirty out six. And if you
look at the original military loading of the thirty out six,
(04:32):
you know, it's nothing super special. You can get a
lot hotter loaded thirty out six today. But they looked
at that original military loading and the US military they
were happy with it. They were happy with the performance
of it, and happy with it in machine guns, happy
with it in rifles, and they said, how can we
get this performance to make it a little bit more efficient,
(04:53):
you know, as you might imagine powders and things had
gotten better from nineteen oh three, which when it was
originally designed to the nineteen fifties when they were looking
at replacing it, so they pretty much duplicated the performance
of the original thirty out six load. Now, calm down,
it's not equal to a thirty out six because you
can with better powders load the thirty out six better.
(05:13):
But they said, how can we duplicate the original or
are current military loading in thirty out six? How can
we do that in a shorter, handier package, And the
three oweight was born. I think nineteen fifty four stands
out in my mind. I could be wrong about that.
I'm not going to look it up, but the mid
fifties is when the thirty out six got developed, and
(05:34):
I think Winchester beat it to market the seven to
sixty by fifty one NATO and they came out on
the civilian market a year or two before with the
three oh eight. And back then the short action it
wasn't really a term a thing, but three oway has
become so popular that three oweight has become the de
facto length for a short action character. So when you
see short action it's pretty much three oweight length and
(05:55):
a bunch of its other let's say grandchildren that are
based on the three to eight cartridge. But that's your
short action now, that doesn't make a lot of difference
for you and I I think short action versus long action,
I think there's a lot more you know, Internet debate
about that than there needs to be. You know, if
(06:16):
you're doing landing craft going up on a beach, the
fact that you can carry you know, a couple of
thousand more rounds, you know, for the carrying capacity, that
makes a difference. If you're talking about aircraft flying AMMO
into a war zone, the fact that it's lighter and
smaller in packaging, that makes a big difference for the
US Army, for the US Marine Corps. I don't think
(06:38):
you're gonna notice a difference you for your standard load out.
If you're let's say, carrying one hundred rounds, I don't
think you're gonna notice a lot of weight difference between
thirty ouh six and three oh weight, So not as
big a difference as a lot of people might say.
And running a bolt action long action versus standard action,
I don't think you're really going to notice a difference
there either. Now the rifle is gonna be a little
(06:59):
bit lighter a little bit handier. So there's there is that,
but I think there's a lot more Internet debate about
that than is really important. But the three oh eight
comes on the scene, and ironically, for as good as
a cartridge, as as good a cartridge as it is,
it has one of the shortest lived you know, service
(07:20):
life as a mainline infantry rifle. It came out and
the M fourteen and fourteen had some issues. The very
quickly the Air Force and the the other branches started
looking at the M sixteen A one, and that got
adopted pretty quickly into pretty pretty quickly in Vietnam, so
(07:45):
it missed Korea. The M fourteen and it got replaced
pretty early in Vietnam, so it didn't see a long
service life. Now we still use a three oz eight
today and other platforms. We still use it in designated
Martian platforms. We use it mostly in machine guns and
media machine guns two forty golf, two forty bravos, so
(08:06):
it stuck around for that. Many other NATO countries adopted
the three oh weight the foul. It was used by
a ton of countries, but it was used enough by
US and others to get it firmly established as a
really really popular cartridge, and of course it coming out
(08:28):
in three o eight, Winchester and Winchester and a bunch
of other companies chambering for it has made it very
popular for hunting and hunting something that I it's one
of my go to rounds for hunting, and I could
use a bunch of rounds, right, I could use a
lot of different rounds. But going back to it's it's
kind of superpower. I like three oh weight. I like
to shoot three o eight. I can shoot it a lot,
(08:50):
I can shoot it affordably. I can probably find a
load that my rifle likes because there's a bunch of
different loads available in it, and it's a good performer
as far as pretty much anything in North America. Now
it wouldn't be my go to choice for you know,
coastal brown bear in Alaska, but pretty much anything else
it will do. Now. They're better cartridges settle down. There
(09:12):
are better moose cartridges, there are better elk cartridges. But plenty,
plenty of people hunt moose and elk with three oh eight,
so it certainly can be done. It's a good, good cartridge.
It's a good, well balanced, mild mannered cartridge. So it's
a good hunting cartridge. It's a very good white tailed
deer cartridge's a good elk cartridge. It is good for
(09:36):
pretty much any charismatic megafauna again outside coastal brown bears
or something like that. It's fine for black bear, it's
fine for many things, and it's good it's got de symballistics,
kind of the vanilla load that stands out in my
head how I remember different loads. Let's say you're talking
one hundred and fifty grains at twenty eight hundred feet
a second. It's a full powered, potent thirty caliber rifle round,
(10:01):
and of course that's a decent for defense. I'm not
going to turn this into the debate on threeh eight
versus five five six. I think I've probably done that
in the past. I've done over if there's over a
thousand episodes summer reruns, but I've done a lot of episodes.
I'd be surprised if I hadn't done an entire episode
on three eight versus five five six. So I'm not
(10:21):
going to turn this into that. But what I will
say is that five five six is an intermediate rifle round,
and it's kind of low on the intermediate rifle round spectrum.
It's an intermediate rifle round. Three oh eight is a
full powered rifle round. They're not the same. Now, they
(10:47):
both advantages of disvantages. Again, I'm not going to dig
into that. Obviously, the threewaight is heavier, but it's more powerful.
So how does this tie in for survival? Well, if
you're into survival, I kind of and I don't think
(11:08):
I came up with this, but let's call it the
duality of survival criteria. And you may there's people. I
don't know. I suppose there's people. It may just be
more of a TV thing. I don't have television. But
back when I used to watch more stuff, there was
doomsday preppers, right, and they would always pick this thing
(11:29):
I'm prepping for I don't know, the zombie hordes from Chicago,
or I'm just making stuff up. They probably never said that,
but they were preparing for a specific thing. I don't
see the future. I don't. I'm not going to pretend
that I do. I don't know what the future holds.
But if you look at the Bible, the Word of God,
which I consider truth, period and science and history, civilizations
(11:53):
collapse countries fail. It's what they do. Disasters happen. I
think I have to convince anybody of that. But getting
back to the duality of what I think is important
for survival, there is eating things that long guns are
(12:13):
useful for eating, putting food on the table, and defending yourself.
Now I'm not saying the three O eight is the
best for that. In fact, I would often say, if
there's no caveats, I would pick a twelve gage, but
that's not the topic for today. If you do pick
a three eight, many reasons people do pick a three
O eight is three oaight again is dcent four hunting
(12:34):
large game. It's not much good for small game. It'll
certainly kill it, but the whole point of view killing
it and survival situation is to eat it. So it's
not great for that. The three oh eight is a
good medium sized game. But before you think that, you're
gonna hunt your way in the apocalypse. And I love
hunting right I live where I live largely four hunting.
(12:55):
I'm looking at right now as I'm recording, I'm sitting
outside because it's a nice day and there's mountains of
mountains upon mountains of wild land behind me deer and
elk and bear, and you know, all manner of things wolves.
So that's a little bit different. Though most people live
east of the Mississippi. Look at what happens to the
(13:17):
deer population east of the Mississippi during the depression. There
are far less people east of the Mississippi during the
depression there are today. You might think there's deer everywhere.
Most people don't hunt deer just for food like they
might hunt deer and eat deer, meaning they heat a
couple of deer a year, and they eat a couple
of deer year. But look at the deer population east
(13:38):
of the Mississippi, and look at the people population east
of the Mississippi. And this is not hard science, right,
but I've heard several places that a mountain lion, which
is about the weight of a very lightweight human, a
mountain lion, which we have around here too, they eat
something like one deer every week if they're just eating deer,
(13:59):
to serve something like one full size deer a year
a week, which is fifty something deer a year, that
survival math doesn't add up. Those deer that are around
won't be around very long. So I don't know how
how realistic that is, but I guess in the short
term it will certainly obviously take a deer. It is
(14:20):
a good deer hunting round and if you're looking for
like your one rifle that you're generally just gonna deer
hunt with, but if something bad happens, you have it. Yeah,
I three O eight is a good good choice for that,
perhaps the best, not ballistically, but the best as far
as your one choice for your center fire, full powered rifle.
It's a good deer cartridge and there's a lot of
(14:40):
really good deer ammo available for it, or a lot
of really good soft point or whatever your go to
r Remington corelock or if you like solid coppers, a TSX.
There's a lot of really good hunting rounds for the
three to eight. So it's a good it's a good
big game rifle. Now, now again, whether big game hunting
(15:02):
is going to be feasible for survival in your area,
that's a different debate. But if you are going to
do that, three O eight is a good choice, and
it's available and widely available and affordable, so that's kind
of its big strength there. It's also available in many
(15:23):
many let's call them fighting rifle platforms like full powered
battle rifle cartridges. I mentioned some of the ones from
the Cold War. I don't think many of them stand
up today. We'll get into that later in the in
the best you know Survival three all eights, God willing
if we get to that episode. But there are a
(15:43):
lot of really good fighting rifles chambered in it, anything
from a Scar seventeen, a Scar heavy to you know,
going back to the old Cold War stuff, the foul.
There are a lot of good go to fighting rifles
chambered in three o eight. There's also the scout rifle concept,
(16:04):
of which I use a scout rifle. I have a
scout rifle sitting behind the seat of my truck. It's
kind of a good all around manual transmission, meaning you
got to operate it yourself. But a scout rifle, they're
generally in three o eight. They can be in other things.
But Jeff Cooper's kind of idea was based on the
three O eight, which tells you he was a fan
of the three to eight. There's a lot of really
(16:28):
good survival options in three oh eight. Now we've heretofore
talked about a lot of the attributes of the three
to eight and it has many some of the drawbacks. Well,
the major one why the military quickly went away from
it in a in a let's sayin main frontline issued
(16:51):
infantry rifle. They kept their for other things. But why
they went away from it, and that is the AMO
is heavy, heavier than an intermediate cartridge, so you have
to carry that. And unlike the US Army the US
Air Force, you're not gonna have entire moss of people
whose entire job it is to get you the AMO
that you need, get you the supplies that you need.
(17:12):
You unless you have, like I don't know, some pretty
legit group, you are gonna be your own resupply. And
if you do have to bug out, leave and carry
the AMMO you can carry on your body, you're gonna
carry a lot less of it with three oh eight.
And as we aforementioned, not great for small game, it's
good for big game, and it's good for defensive use,
(17:33):
offensive use. It's good for fighting. But that is a
raging debate right on what's better. Would you rather have
a couple of rounds of five, five, six? It would
you rather have less rounds of three to eight? But
that are more effective round per round. It really depends.
It depends on you, your location, your skill level, your
(17:54):
ability to control recoil. It depends on many things. But
one of the big downsizes it is heavier. So that
is something to be aware of. Another thing to be
aware of. It's going to cost more round per round now,
as far as full powered center fire rifle cartridges go,
it's going to cost more round per round, quite a
(18:17):
bit more than some of the other options. Some of
the other things that people often look too for survival
are twenty two long rifle. Now, it's a huge difference
in price per round between twenty two long rifle and
three await. It's also a huge difference in effectiveness round
per round. But let's just say you're just getting started out.
Like the whole one gun debate for you is not
actually philosophical because you don't have a lot of money,
(18:40):
you're a college student, or you just don't have a
lot of money. I grew up poor. I get it.
And you're only going to have, at least for a while,
one gun. You're only going to have like a gun
because that's all you can afford. You have other stuff
to do to get ready to you know, get prepared.
So you're only going to have one gun. And if
you're trying to have one gun and stockpile ammunition, if
you're on a budget, you can stockpile a lot, lot
(19:03):
more twenty two long rifle then you can three oh eight.
And I'm not saying it's a better choice. I'm saying
if that you, you know, maybe you can't even afford a
decent three weight, But if even if you could, you're
gonna let's say you could afford twenty or forty rounds
a three eight, but you could have several thousand rounds
of a twenty two long rifle. And there's the same debate.
(19:23):
If you're gonna carry it, you're gonna carry what one
hundred rounds and three oweight you can carry thousands of
rounds of twenty two long rifle. So there's that issue,
and maybe not issue, just maybe thing for you to
internally wrestle with the other thing is five five six
not as drastic therever you're gonna be able to afford
(19:45):
more and store more five five six. Now the rifles
are probably gonna cost roughly the same, with the exception
of the AR fifteen. The air fifteens are crazy affordable nowadays,
but you could get a bolt action three weight in
the same price range. So there, there's that, And I
think more important than that is your ability to train.
(20:06):
I don't care what caliber you have if you're not
good with it, if you can't hit your target with it,
kind of useless, right. It's not the noise that you make.
It's not it's not how cool it looks on Instagram
or I don't have Instagram, but it's not. It's not that.
It's you getting hits on target. And you know what
allows you to get hits on target? Training? Training does? Competition?
(20:29):
Does taking classes? Does practicing does? You're gonna be able
to practice more with twenty two long rifle or five
five six if you want to go to centerfire, you're
gonna be able to practice more than you will with
three oh eight. Now, you could practice with those and
then and then also practice a little bit with your
three o eight, So you're competent with the three oh eight.
(20:51):
You certainly can do that. I'm all for it. But
if you're just gonna have the one and you're gonna
train with the one, you're gonna be able to train
more as as price and weight and space goes with
the five five six, So that is something to consider
with the three O eight. Now I'm not trying to
(21:12):
talk to about a three eight. Here's where I land
on it. If you said the apocalypse is gonna happen,
and no other no other things like the end of
the world as we know it, the peanut, butter and
chocolate is hitting the fan soon, no other caveats you
gotta leave on foot. You can take a long gun.
I would take a twelve gage shotgun. Going back to
the feeding yourself, like, I live in the wild West,
(21:34):
like rugged, gnarly country with both kinds of bear and
wolves and mountain lions and deer and elk dip you know,
both white tail and mule deer and and elk and
moose and all manner of things. Right, I live in
that kind of you know, Idaho Wayoming Montana area, and
I do that on purpose. But even here I would
(21:57):
probably take a shotgun. I took my elk last year
with a shot It'll take anything in North America, but
I can scale it down. I can also hunt grouse
with it. I can also hunt other things with it.
So it's when it comes to being flexible and putting
food on the table. Nothing rivals the shotgun for that.
But if you said there were some other caveats and
I might want a rifle, then the internal debate rages
(22:20):
on what I would carry. I don't live in a
very densely populated area on purpose, right, And I got
this from Viking Preparedness, somebody of whom I'm a patron of.
But population density matters. People behaving badly matters. Whatever percentage
of population is going to behave badly in a certain
situation where there's a lot more people, there's a lot
(22:42):
more people behaving badly. I don't live in one of
those areas, so you know, if I did, I might
want to be able to carry more ammo. But if
you said I was a rifle was going to be
advantageous and I had to pick one rifle, I would
pick a three zero eight for me because of where
I am. I'm not saying that's the best for you,
but for me for a rifle. If I had to
(23:02):
pick a rifle, it would be three oh eight. So
there is that. So I do think it's probably the
best rifle round for me for survival. If I had
to pick only one. Now, this is all philosophy, you know,
professional firearms philosopher, But uh, I want to cover God
(23:29):
Willing in a future episode the best survival three O eights? Like,
what are some of the best survival three eights? If
you think, yeah, three O eight is my jam, I'm
gonna get on that train and that's gonna be my
survival caliber or a survival caliber for me, because hopefully
we don't ever have to end up in that situation
long term, we only have one long gun. Like it's
a it's a cool thought experiment, but but hopefully you
(23:52):
have a battery of guns, but you want three oaight
to be part of that. What are some of the
best three eights for survival on the market today? And
there are a lot of three owights on the market today,
and the majority of them, I would say, don't meet
this criteria, don't meet what I would call a good
survival gun. Now, of course many of them are going
to be better than a sharp stick, but that doesn't
make them a good choice for survival. What do I
(24:14):
think are some of the best survival three O weights
today or that have been made in yesteryear that you
can still get and are still decently available, not like
some crazy Hen's teeth rifle, but available affordable, decent survival
three ow weights on the market. So hopefully you're subscribed,
(24:36):
like subscribe, leave review so you can get that episode
when it comes out. If you're not already subscribed, plan
on putting it out early in ad free on Patreon,
just one of the things. They get a lot of
content they're only going to get on Patreon, and a
lot of other things that get to vote, they get
to interact. If you're interested, check out Patreon. Closing out
(24:59):
with a tactical verse of the day if you're new here.
That's something I often like to do. This morning, I
was actually reading you shall not have in your bag
differing weights heavy and a light. You shall not have
in your house. Differing measures are large and small. You
shall have a perfect and adjust weight in a perfect
unadjust measure. You should judge things soberly. I like the
(25:21):
three O eight. The three O eight is not a
super weapon. If you're picking three O eight for Bravado
and it doesn't make logical sense, it might not be
the right choice. And I think a lot of men
get certain firearms for Bravado when they don't make any
logical sense, like I don't know, like a desert eagle
or I don't know a five hundred smit them less
and so, And you might just want the one because
(25:42):
they're cool and they're fun, and that's fine if your
money and you know, that's great. If you have the money,
you earned it justly and you want to spend it
on that, there's nothing wrong with that. But don't try
to make it a logical choice. Just realize that it
is what it is. But don't pick the three eight
off my cheese more because it's some super weapon. It's not.
(26:03):
It's a decent full powered rifle round. As far as
full powered rifle rounds go, it's not even that powerful.
But it is a full powered rifle round. It's a decent,
decent choice for that. But just make sure we look
at things soberly. Anyway. With that, guys, I appreciate you.
(26:24):
I appreciate all that you do. Hope you're a regular
listener or you listen again in the future, and have
a blessed day.
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