American 8s - 8mm Rifle Cartridges in America 8mm Rem mag .325wsm

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
American eights eight millimeter. That is, the rest of the
world I think largely has eight millimeters as a staple
in their rifle diet, but we generally don't. But there
are a few American eights and some eight millimeters that

(00:21):
you might find on the American market, nowhere near that
of Europe. Pretty small niche and a pretty small fan
club here in America, but we do have them. So
that's what we're going to talk about today. Welcome to Gunfighter Life,
the podcast where we talk about guns, gum fighting, tactics, ballistics,
different cartridges, the right Way, with God at the center,

(00:43):
Judeo Christian values and real world firsthand experience with that.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room, the eight
millimeter Mauser give credit whords do thanks to Pat one
of the patrons, who got me a Cartridges of the
World book. It's what I'll be referencing here. It just
happened to be the closest one to the podcast microphone,

(01:05):
and it's a good reference. Officially adopted in Get This
eightighteen eighty eight. Any idea how advanced that rifle cartridge was?
For eighteen eighty eight Winchester Model ninety four came out
in ninety four, eighteen ninety four, this came out before that.

(01:27):
It's a modern Spitzer Bottlenecks cartridge with impressive ballistics eighteen
eighty eight, it says, originally point three one eight inch
diameter bullet, and it was later increased to three three
point twenty three. You might see it designated as eight
millimeter s or JS, famous or infamous for being used

(01:54):
by the Germans in both World Wars. There's some load
data here in your mileage very on this, but at
lists one hundred and twenty five grain bullet at thirty
one hundred feet a second and at less, say two
hundred and twenty grain bullet at twenty two hundred feet
a second. Those are impressive ballistics today. In eighteen eighty eight,

(02:15):
I'm sure it wasn't quite as hot with the powders
they have, but it was still a potent cartridge. Those
are impressive ballistics. Oh. You may also commonly see it
as the eighty fifty seven. There's a lot of other
European eights eight by something. Don't like those commune designations
here generally, here we're just gonna call it the eight mauser.

(02:35):
Now we have kind of a spinoff from this. We
we as in not me personally, but the the national
Royal We the Americans after World War Two, perhaps World
War One as well, to a lesser extent, brought back
a bunch of German guns. But as you might imagine,
there were some animosity and not as much free trade

(02:57):
as there is now between Europe and the United States
for quite a few years, so it was hard to
get eight x fifty seven miles or even if you
had a rifle. Well, it's no secret we kind of
copied the Mauser cartridges the seven. I forget if it
was the seven area of the eighth that we copied
for the thirty out six. So an easy solution was

(03:18):
to get a slight modification to the chamber and just
use thirty out six brass, and you use what would
become known as the eight All six or the eight
milimeter All six. So you may see some of those
not so much anymore, but there was a brief time
in the let's say, mid twentieth century where those were
pretty popular, So you you could consider that kind of

(03:40):
an All American eight, the original All American eight, the
eight milimeter All six. I'm not gonna go too deep
into that, because again that was kind of a workaround,
probably not looking at wildcatting your gun today into an
eight millimeter all six. Now let's get into an interesting one.
The cartridge had got me thinking about the American eights,

(04:02):
and this is an American creation inn eight millimeter, the
three to twenty five Winchester short Magnum. There was a
time in the middle of the aughts aught ish and
this one came out right in the middle of This
was released in two thousand and five, same book, Cartries

(04:23):
of the World. There was a brief time when the
short and short magnums were all the rage, These short
stumpy cartridges, the you know, there's a bunch of them,
and there was even a spinoff from the spinoff super
short Magnums, all the way from two twenty three WSSM,
a super cool cartridge all the way up to this

(04:44):
bad boy here, the three twenty five, which I think
is the biggest of these short magnums, the three to
twenty five WSM. There was rivals. There was the PSALM,
the short action ultramags, the ruder compact magnums. There was
a bunch. It was again all the rage and kind
of the mid all. Some of them stuck around, many
of them died. This one kind of died, but it

(05:05):
didn't die because it had bad ballistics. Since it kind
of did die, you may find one for a good deal,
and it's a good modern true magnum in a short
action cartridge. But if you want a magnum and a
short action cartridge, and you want a little bit bigger
bore diameter than thirty caliber of the American kind of caliber,

(05:28):
you may look at the three twenty five WSM. Again,
it's ballistics are impressive. Here we have one hundred and
fifty grain hornity at thirty two hundred feet per second. Impressive.
And again that's a short action cartridge, even shorter than
the original eight milimeter Mauser you would consider more of

(05:48):
a standard length action. It lists a two hundergrain Barns
TSX at twenty nine fifty that'd kill anything on the planet,
especially with that bullet and that bullet construction. A two
hundred grain nozzlar partition also I think would kill anything
on the planet twenty nine sixty four, so just under
three thousand feet a second. Again, this is a true

(06:09):
magnum eight millimeter and a short action the three twenty
five WSM. The heaviest blillet list is a two twenty
win Chester by pp I assume stance for PowerPoint at
twenty eight forty. That's typical velocities. When I think rough
numbers of a three toh eight, I think one hundred
and fifty grain at twenty eight hundred. This is launching

(06:30):
a two hundred and twenty grain bullet at twenty over
twenty eight hundred. It's a magnum. It's a big, short,
stumpy beast, but it is not the most powerful American
eight millimeter. There is another, the eight millimeter Remington Magnum. Now, Remington,

(06:53):
you gotta give them credit. They were kind of the
first ones. They've flopped a lot of cartridges for a
lot of silly reasons, but they really came through with
the seven millimeter Remington Magnum. It's kind of the first
COMMI designated cartridge. So many bad things came out of
the French Revolution without a history lesson just a French
Revolution was a dumpster fire. One of the horrible things

(07:17):
that gave to the world was the metric system, with
their horrible socialist COMMI measurements. US Americans don't generally like
those designations. The seven millimeter Remington Magnum we love so much.
We made an exception. It was perhaps one of the,
if not the first, popular, real popular big game millimeter

(07:39):
cartridges that was embraced by Western hunters. The seven milimeter remmag. Well,
I guess Remington thought, well, seven milimeter redmags with the
eight millimeter remmag will be also good. It flopped, but
again not because it had bad ballistics. I think mostly

(08:01):
because Americans never really embraced the eight millimeter. We still haven't.
It took us a long long time to embrace sixty
five and I really like six'. Five it's got a
lot of, merit BUT i think mostly because it wasn't a,
caliber it was a millimeter. Designation, well that may have
had something to do with the eight. Millimeter maybe it

(08:22):
just it's a big thump and, cartridge and a lot
of people they're shooting a big thumping cartridge In. America
you already had the three Hundred win, mag you had
the three thirty Eight win, mag you have the storied
three seventy five eh AND. H but this is an impressive.
Cartridge right again on, ballistics it's it's, legit it says,

(08:45):
here the same cartridges of the. World it is based
on the three seventy five ah and h case blown,
out thus requiring thus requiring a three seven five inch
long bolt travel traveled in the standard thirty out. Six
it's a similar in design to A european. Cartridge eight

(09:06):
by sixty eight says here was announced in nineteen seventy,
eight so quite a while. Ago and let's look at
some of these loads. Here this is A this is
not a short. Magnum this is a full length. Magnum
magnum one hundred and twenty five grains at thirty six

(09:34):
hundred feet per. Second those are velocities you might more
attribute to a varmint, cartridge and like a forty five grain.
Bullet this is getting those velocities with one hundred and
twenty five grand. BULLET i don't know what that would
do to a prong horn or a white tailed. Deer
with one hundred and twenty five grand bullet at thirty

(09:54):
six hundred feet a second reminds me more of a
weatherbe cartridge than A remington. Cartridge they rocket ship one
hundred and fifty grain bullet at thirty three hundred feet a,
second which again rough. NUMBERS i usually think of three
zero eight and there's a bunch of different threellweight, loads
but roughly one hundred and fifty grand at twenty eight.
Hundred this is one hundred and fifty at thirty three
hundred feet per. Second you want energy on that thirty

(10:18):
six twenty eight foot, pounds and it lists a two
hundred grain bullet at still over three thousand feet a,
second two hundred grain soft point at thirty fifty for
over four thousand foot pounds of, energy and it'll lists
a two hundred and twenty grain bullet at twenty eight. Thirty,

(10:39):
again those are impressive. Numbers, Now americans again not real
big on the. Eighth if it's your, niche then, Cool
but most people are not hip on the eight. Millimeters
but that doesn't mean That america does not have some
great eight millimeters to, offer and they're not bad, ballistically
but it Was americans were. Generally our standard is the

(11:01):
thirty caliber three oh eight thirty out six three hundred
win mag and a bunch of other three hundred. Magnums
you're only going from point three o eight to point
three two, three so not a giant gain, there and
then if you want a bigger, bullet generally In america
we go with the three thirty. Eight don't ask me
why we've standardized on three thirty eight or a Very
american thing the thirty five, calibers thirty Five, whalen thirty Five,

(11:25):
Remington so we kind of would consider that our you,
know Larger boer. Cartridges but, again the eight millimeter not bad,
ballistically and if it's your, thing if it's your, niche
it's not a bad one to. Have if you're the
guy that just wants to hunt hipster and have something

(11:46):
different than anybody else in, camp and a bunch of
other people have three hundred win bags and you've got
a three twenty FIVE wsm that's definitely as, CAPABLE i would, say,
ballistically but definitely cool a. Niche, hey, GUYS i hope
you enjoyed this cartridge talk on The american. EIGHTS i
appreciate you, guys and have a blessed. Day