August 15, 2025 • 27 mins
Christian ; Follower of GOD Servant of CHRIST
Decorated Combat VeteranCorporate; U.S. Marine Corps Urban Warfare Instrictor;
S.R.T. Commander Active Shooter Response Team
Law Enforcement Los Angeles Police (L.A.P.D.) Police Officer / Fugitive Recovery
F.B.I. Instructor N.R.A Instructor
Competition Shooter; Multi Time State Rifle Pistol Champion
Hunting; Life Long Hunter Proffessional Hunter and Guide
Private Security Contractor; Several Agencies, Current.
GOD Provides / JESUS Saves
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gunfighter-life-survival-guns-tactical-hunting--4187306/support.
Have a Blessed Day
Decorated Combat VeteranCorporate; U.S. Marine Corps Urban Warfare Instrictor;
S.R.T. Commander Active Shooter Response Team
Law Enforcement Los Angeles Police (L.A.P.D.) Police Officer / Fugitive Recovery
F.B.I. Instructor N.R.A Instructor
Competition Shooter; Multi Time State Rifle Pistol Champion
Hunting; Life Long Hunter Proffessional Hunter and Guide
Private Security Contractor; Several Agencies, Current.
GOD Provides / JESUS Saves
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gunfighter-life-survival-guns-tactical-hunting--4187306/support.
Have a Blessed Day
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to Gunfighter Life, the podcast where we
talk about gun fighting the right way, with God at
the center, Judeo Christian values, and real world firsthand experience.
Don't reread the like, subscribe, leave review of the podcast.
I'm gonna plug in the bio. If you've heard it,
don't want to hear it again, or just don't care,
(00:22):
you can skip about three minutes and forty five seconds
from where it starts. First and foremost, I am a
servant of God, preacher, a fisher of men. God is
number one in my life, and everything that I do
in this podcast is no different, and I don't apologize
(00:44):
for that. A little bit about me in the background.
I grew up I guess what would consider a heathen.
Didn't grow up a Christian, but I grew up in
the Southeastern United States what most will consider very poor,
hunting and fishing and shooting. Joined the Marine Corps seventeen,
did a couple of combat tours in Iraq. After my
(01:05):
combat tours in Iraq, I was an urban warfare instructor
for the United States Marine Corps under Mohabi Viper. I
also served in law enforcement for several years in LAPD.
I worked patrol assignments and more specialized assignments, whereby God's
grace he got me through some nasty places in this world,
(01:26):
war zones and some of the nastiest streets in the country,
not because I am better, because God chose that mercy
on me and had a purpose for me, and I'm
thankful for that. After my time in law enforcement, I
was a private contractor for a federal government for a
three letter government agency. I won't specify doing private contracting work.
(01:48):
I'm very much involved in guns and gun fighting. I
also served in the US Army, both full time and
part time National Guard. I should say my primes is
in both branches of the military or infantry as of
one sort or another. Specialized infantry in the Marine Corps
and MS it no longer exists. I started competition shooting
(02:12):
even before I joined the Marine Corps seventeen. I won
my first gold medal Eavene before I joined the Marine
Corps seventeen. I've been blessed by God with the talents
he's given me to win more shooting competitions than I
can remember. I've won most of my competitions and rifle
and pistol, but I've also competed in archery and shotgun
and even muzzle loader, the knife throwing, hatchet throwing. I've
(02:35):
competed in all that. I've also been a professional big
game hunter and guide. Like I said, I grew up
hunting and fishing and shooting. I've done it to put
meat on the table, because I like to put food
on the table with the talents God's given me. I
don't apologize for that. I've done it as a professional
hunter and guide. I've slain all manner of beast and
(02:58):
guided for all manner of beast, bear and wolf, and
elk and deer, mule, deer, of white tailed deer, of
slain ram and fallow deer, and countless animals. And I
don't apologize for that either. FBI Certified Firearms Instructor NRA,
(03:20):
and a bunch of other three letter government agency certifications.
Blessed be the Lord of my rock, who trains my
hands for war on my fingers for battle. So I'm
one forty four. I've been blessed to be the commander
of a tactical team, an SRT special response team in
a large metropolitan area where a primary job was to
(03:42):
stop active shooters but again, first and foremost, I'm a
servant of God, called by God to share the good news, preacher,
a fisher of men. With that, we will roll into
(04:05):
the day's topic. All right, man, with that, let's get
into today's episode of Gunfighter Life. Recently did an episode
on top three varming cartridges, and I thought about it,
and I was like, well, how was it that I
did that one before I did the top deer cartridges.
(04:26):
I thought it only fair that I go and do
the top deer cartridges. As I believe, we are a
nation of deer hunters. We hunt a lot of things
in this country. You know, we hunt moose, and we
hunt bear, and we hunt grouse, and we hunt pheasants
and ducks. If you took a random survey of people
(04:46):
and said hunting, probably the number one game, man, what
I'm just guessing here they would think of would be deer.
And I think that all over this country, both mule deer,
whitetail deer, blacktail deer, all across this nation, we are
kind of a nation of deer hunters. Now, most hunters
hunt other things too, but I think quin essentially in
(05:10):
America we are deer hunters. So what do I believe
are the top deer hunting cartridges. Well, I think that
the first one is going to be pretty obvious. I mean,
the standard for you know, center just period center fire
(05:33):
rifle cartridges in America is the thirty six. It's been
around for over one hundred years. And when you think
of any cartridge and you're comparing it, the obvious thing
that you think of is how does it compare to
the thirty six? Pretty simple that the thirty six is
(05:54):
a thirty caliber not quite developed in nineteen oh six,
but that's when it official godess designation. It's a little
bit older than that. But thirty caliber developed in nineteen
oh six, was used by the military, and obviously a
lot of those men were hunters, and a lot of
those men came back from war and hunted both World
War One and World War Two. That was our go
(06:15):
to American riflemen chartridge. And I think America prides itself
on being a nation of good riflemen, or at least
has in the past, and that was an obvious choice.
It was a giant leap forward from the things that
had come before it. You know, doubtably the thirty forty
krag can hunt deer fine, but not like the thirty
(06:36):
all six. Forty five seventy has and still does take deer,
but not like the thirty all six. The thirty all six,
like it or not kind of as a stolen idea
from the seven x fifty seven Mauser. You can hate
on me for saying that, but it's pretty undisputable that
(06:56):
that's true. We took that from the Germans, We took
that from the seven x fifty seven Miles, or even
kind of took their design for the mals of ninety
eight and the nineteen oh three Springfield. That doesn't mean
that the thirty out six has not become the quintessential
iconic American round. Now. One of the great things about
the thirty out six is that it is so popular
(07:16):
and so versatile and been around for so long that
it really is flexible. Again, I'm going to refer to
the Hornity Reloading Manual not because it's the best right
it has the hottest load, because it's the manual that
I have and that I've had for years and years.
In my experience, this one's kind of known for playing
it safe on the load data. But this is the
load data that I'm going to use because it's what's
(07:37):
in front of me. Backery loads often are hotter than
the load's listed here. But if you think a deer
hunting and the thirty out six, you generally think of
the one hundred and fifty grain two, the one hundred
and sixty eight grain bullets. Maybe the one eighty grains
if you're hunting bigger game or in heavier timber, but
let's call it one fifty to one eighty grains. You
(07:59):
guys remember theriginal Batman? Now the original Batman. The Batman
with Michael Keaton came out, I think in the eighties
when I was a kid. Scene where he goes, you
want to get nuts, Let's get nuts. Just thought about that, Well,
you want to get nerdy about ballistics, let's get nerdy.
The thirty out six springfield well one hundred and fifty
one hundred and fifty crap five grand bullet is pushing
(08:21):
max velocities of about three thousand feet a second. With
your one sixty five to one sixty eight grain bullets,
you're looking at around twenty nine hundred feet a second.
That's probably your optimal low than the thirty out six.
You're won eighty grains or dropping out of twenty seven
hundred feet per second, and those velocities are fine. I
(08:41):
have plenty of energy for taking any deer in North
America at any reasonable range. And they have for decades
and decades and decades been the standard for deer hunting
in America. The thirty out six is quinnal, essentially American
and iconic. Let me tell you something. I've never owned
a thirty out six. I don't believe. I don't generally
(09:03):
have any plans to own a thirty out six, but
I can't deny that it is the number one quintessential
American deer hunting cartridge. It is a great cartridge, so
much so that it only took a little bit of
refinement when the military was looking for a new cartridge.
And this next cartridge is probably one of the big
reasons I don't own a thirty out six. This is
the number two. I bet you already know what it is.
(09:26):
It is one of my favorite all around cartridges. It
is the three to oh weeight Winchester. You look at
the three away Winchester, you know it's no secret that
they were looking at the thirty out six. Americans like
the thirty out six Military is looking to save weight
and have a more efficient cartridge, which I think they
achieved with the three ahweight Winchester. We look at that
(09:47):
same ballistic Geek data. You're looking at one hundred and
fifty grain bullet, which I think for the three O
wait is probably the most common the three the one
to fifty grain to the one hundred and sixty five grain.
You don't see as much of the under and eighty
grain really starts to lose ground to the three weight
in one hundred and eighty grain, but it holds pretty high.
And then one fifty to the one sixty eight grain bullets,
(10:09):
which again are the most common for deer hunting in
North America. And you're looking at, you know, twenty eight
hundred feet a second. And again this is my quarranty
reloading man. You can get hotter loads. You can make
hotter loads for the one sixty eight you're looking at
twenty seven hundred feet a second. Again, plenty plenty, powerful
enough to take any deer in North America at any
(10:32):
reasonable range. And we there's really this really isn't an
official term, really, but a lot of gun manufacturers use it.
It's commonly referred to in American vernacular long action versus
short action. One essential thing that Americans hunt with is
both action rifles for deer. I mean, elever actions are popular.
(10:54):
You know, semi auto is becoming more popular. But really,
when you think about hunting deer in North America, you
don't think of a bolt action rifle. And there's a
difference between a long and a short action. Now you
can argue whether one is more accurate than the other,
or whether one is faster to cycle. I don't know
that practically in the field it really makes much difference,
but it is an advantage. That's the reason the military
(11:14):
went to it. Advantage in weight. It's lighter for the amal,
which relate as a matter if you're carrying five rounds
if you're carrying five hundred. It might or advantage in
the lightness and the length of the action of the rifle.
And I don't think anybody would argue that it's not
a more efficient cartridge. In the thirty out six, I
didn't say better, I said more efficient. Now I'm not
(11:37):
looking this up, but I believe it became a sporting
cartridge in America in the nineteen fifties. So even the
three O eight is not, you know, a spring chicken.
But because I think it is a more efficient version
of the iconic and classic American thirty out six, I
think that really helped it. You know, in America, we
really love our thirty calibers, and the three L eight
is one of my personal favorites, and a great thing
(12:01):
about it is a good crossover tactical defensive round, tactical round,
military police round, as well as a hunting round, and
the thirty out six used to be that. But I
would argue it's nobody could argue that it's that anymore,
I don't believe. So if you were looking for a
do it all rifle, you'd be hard pressed to beat
anything other than the three H eight, in my opinion,
(12:24):
my opinion, the next one, the next one. You can't
argue with this quin essential American deer hunting cartridge, the
thirty thirty. The thirty thirty pre dates even by quite
a bit, the thirty six. The manual I'm looking at
(12:45):
says since eighteen ninety five, eighteen ninety five, the thirty
thirty came out, and it's been killing deer ever since.
You could start a bar fight with what's killed more
deer in America, the thirty out six or the thirty thirty.
The fact that you would have that argument, you probably
(13:07):
have a pretty even split on both sides, tells you
that this is a quintessential, iconic American caliber, and I
wish it was still more popular really for most hunting,
for most people in most situations. I'm not talking about
the new trendy hunting where you put your twenty pounds
rifle on a tripod and shoot animals from hundreds of
yards away. I'm talking about heading into the deer woods
(13:30):
with the word of God, pair of boots and a rifle,
either spot in stall hunting or still hunting, or maybe
even stand hunting, which is not my favorite but arguably
is probably one of the most common ways to hunt
deer in America with the quintessential where it's still legal
drive hunting deer, the thirty thirty'll get it done. The
(13:51):
thirty of thirty'll get it done. All the time it doesn't,
it's probably your fault, not the cartridge's fault. It's a
good deer round. I would argue that the vast majority
of deer taken taken under one hundred and fifty yards.
With that, the thirty thirty is just fine and it
has energy to kill dear Beyond that, it's kind of
your point blank range. For that you guys don't If
(14:12):
you guys don't know what point blank means. It doesn't
mean you know something right in front of you, or
a person right in front of you, or deer right
in front of you. It means the distance that you
can zero rifle and point at a given target and
hit it without adjusting your dope, just in the settings
of your site. It's adjusting your holdover. You point at it,
you pull the trigger. If you do everything right as
(14:34):
far as keeping the gun steady, that round will kill
that thing, you know. And point blank range on a
thirty thirty is easily one hundred and fifty yards, and
for that for most hunting, for most people in America,
the thirty thirty is still fine. And you know, the
Winchester ninety four and the Marlin Model three thirty six
are just quintessential American lever action deer hunting cartridges, and
(14:57):
they're great handy woods car beings, they're great stalking car beans,
you know, kind of the quintessential olds for this year,
one fifty grain at twenty three hundred feet a second,
and you're one seventy grain at twenty two hundred feet
a second. Again, plenty to kill any deer in North America. Now,
if you'll notice, these are all thirty calibers, and there's
(15:17):
a reason for that. I think Americans you know, gravitate
to and have probably because of and since the thirty
thirty and the thirty out six thirty caliber rounds. The
next two are not going to be that. They're going
to be wildcats based on two of the ones we
already talked about. If you don't know, wildcats in cartes
where you're taking existing cartridge that's established, like a thirty
(15:40):
all six, and you neck it up, making the net
bigger or smaller to get a different diameter bullet in there.
In other ways the wildcat, but generally that's the most
common necking something up or necking something down. Well, the
thirty six having been around a while and people saying, hey,
this is great, but bet I can make it better.
You guys, remember that show Home Improvement or tool Time,
(16:01):
which everyone was the name of the show or the
show inside the show, don't really remember it? Was always
more power, more power. Well, that's kind of quintessentially American too.
How can I take this thing and hot rot it
or wild cat it and make it better? Well, the
thirty out six was an obvious choice for this, and
so per the manual I'm looking at in nineteen twenty five,
(16:22):
they did this by nacking the thirty out six down
to twenty seven caliber. To now you probably know the
two seventy. The two seventy is quinn essentially iconic American
American wildcatting interpretation, hot rotting of an American cartridge, this
quintessential great American thing, and make it even, I argue
(16:43):
to say, better, but more tuned to a Western style
of hunting, and the two seventy is born the two seventy,
the thirty out six NAC down a twenty seven caliber.
You can't really mention this without talking about Jack O'Connor,
a prolific gun writer in America. I think you really
popularize this cartridge. It's hard to say whether it would
have taken off as much without him, but the fact
(17:06):
is that it did. And that's American history, a little
piece of Americana, and it's been around since nineteen twenty
five and it's still super popular now. I know a
lot of people live vist of the Mississippi, but a
lot of deer hunting goes on west of the Mississippi,
and I'd say the two seventy is one of, if
not the go to western deer hunting cartridge. It has
been for a long time. Kind of your classics for
(17:27):
this are one hundred and thirty one hundred and forty
grand bullets. You're looking at one hundred and thirty grand
bullet at thirty one hundred feet a second, and you're
looking at one hundred and forty grand bullet at three
thousand feet a second. Again, for your western hunting, where
east of the Mississippi unless you own a bean field
or own or give permission a hot like a long
farm field if you're hunting woods, long shot is one
(17:47):
hundred yards a lot of the Eastern states and the
other exceptions, but in the Western States you easily see
several hundred yards routinely, and out there the two seventy
really does, I think maybe have an advantage deer hunting
out west. I'd say it was better than the thirty
out six. I'd say for that style of hunting does
give a little bit greater range and a little bit
(18:09):
greater reach with a little bit less usually felt recoil,
all of the things being equal, and usually usually not
the two seventy. If that's a wild and which it
started out, obviously it started out, then it is adopted
and it's no longer a wildcat. And in fact, in
(18:30):
research that I've done, the origins of how and why
they settled on the two seven seven caliber bullet are
not really well known, especially not to me. Perhaps it
wasn't a wildcat, perhaps it was developed entirely by Winchester
for Winchester. Usually civilians wildcat these things and make their
own dies and stuff first, and then it gets adopted.
If the two seventy is what we what I would
(18:53):
refer to as a wildcat, of the thirty out six,
next one would be similar, and then necking down of
the three wait, my personal favorite on the list, and
the cartridge that I've used to take more deer and
elk than any other rifle cartridge, the two forty three Winchester.
(19:15):
Now you heard in the bio if you listen to it,
that I have been a professional big game hunter and guide.
But it was one of my personal favorites. Even before then.
I was surprised to find that with the professional hunters
and guides that I worked with, the number one cartridge
that we all carried was a two forty three. Didn't
just guide for deer deer was the biggest one, not
just white tailed deer, but fallow deer and seek a
(19:37):
deer and access deer. The number one cartridge just find
those guides carrying was a two forty three. Why is that? Well?
Because if you're hunting deer size game, the two forty
three old coat any deer in North America, and it
will do it with very little reco meaning you can
(19:58):
chamber and a nice handy rifle for a guide, that's
important a lot of other things going on. Even if
I'm not a guide, I'd rather the way that I hunt.
I'd rather cover more ground with a lighter, handier rifle.
And it's not that I can't handle heavy recoil, it's
that I don't want to. And if I don't need to,
why would I. The two forty three is often lumped
(20:18):
in as like a kid's rifle or a woman's rifle.
I think that really does it at this service. It
will kill any deer in North America, and it'll do
it with less recoil, with a high you know, sectional
density BC bullet and a light, handy rifle that I
can cover more ground. In fact, I first kind of
fell in love with it when I moved to Idaho
(20:39):
and I had a three to weight and I'd hunted
with a threewight successfully and I saw sitting in Walmart
a youth rifle two forty three Remington Model seven hundred.
I want to say I picked it up for four
hundred dollars maybe three ninety nine, with a scope, and
I was light and handy, and I hiked all over
the wilderness and woods of Idaho and took I don't
remember how many deer and elk with it because it
(21:01):
was light and handy, and it would kill anything if
I put the bullet, a well constructed bullet in the
right place. And for deer sized game, the two forty
three will do it. And it's got and ever recoil
can be subjective, but it's got the least amount of
recoil of any of the cartries we've talked about. It's
still plenty for knocking down deer size game and it's
(21:21):
got a good efficient bullet. Two forty three or six
milimeter bullets for launching lighter bullets and other cartridges that
we talked about generally four deer to seventy five and
even more common the ninety something two hundred and something
grain bullets. My personal favorite for this, especially handloads, is
the eighty five grand Sierra Game King. Again I've taken
(21:45):
I don't know how many deer and elk with this
cartridge generally goes in dumps all its energy, does a
massive amount of tissue damage and fragmenting debt, and usually
doesn't exit the other side of an animal. It usually
stops just sure on the skin on the other side
of the animal, which is for me, is amazing. I
like that. I like that cartridge. I like that performance.
(22:06):
I like the two forty three. Now with the two
forty three, let's get nerdy. You're launching a seventy five
graind bullet at thirty four hundred feet a second. Thirty
four hundred feet a second seventy five grand bullet. A
lot of people today I know that is twenty three,
which I don't consider a great deer cartridge. I consider
(22:27):
it a marginal deer cartridge, but a lot of people
hunt with it and take deer with it. People think
like the seventy something ish seventy seventy grain bullets are
the quintessential deer hunting round. For the two twenty three,
I'm talking if you look at that for the same
manual reloading data, this is a seventy five graind bullet
at twenty seven hundred feet a second. Again, the two
(22:48):
forty three seventy five grand bullet at thirty four hundred
feet a second, and the one hundred grand bullets at
three grand. Again, plenty out of it. Whether it's and
I pulled this up on Wikipedia because my manual doesn't
list foot pounds eighty grain to one hundred grain. You're
just shy of two thousand foot pounds of energy with
(23:12):
that to become kind of considered the sledgehammer in the
two twenty three, Well, it's a seventy seven grain. You're
looking at thirteen hundred foot pounds. That's not a marginal
living between thirteen hundred and almost two thousand with that.
That's been my top picks for the quintessential American deer
hunting cartridges. If I left out one that you think
(23:35):
should be on the list, not your favorite, because your
favorite could be a you know, two fifty savage. It's
a great round, is it really? Does it supplant any
of the ones on the list? If you're like I
can't believe you didn't mention the whatever, you know the
way to object respectfully and at get everyone to see it.
Give review of the podcast and refer to this episode
(23:57):
and say I think you should have had the twenty
five out six on there. Believe the three hundred Winchester
magnum is not on there? Now let me know and
let everybody else know, as long as it's respectful. Leave
your review of the podcast. I guess a good transition
to that to the Patreon and the Good Shepherd Training.
If you like this podcast, you're not aware there's also
the Alpha Male podcast. We talk about more than just guns,
(24:18):
about general manliness, the right way with God at the center.
If you care about the important stuff, simple man sermons,
the preachings of a simple man called by God to
share the good news of Jesus Christ. You can check
all those out under the umbrella of Good Shepherd Training
dot com. If you don't remember the names, you can
obviously probably look them all up on whatever platform you're
listening to this on, but Good Shepherd Training dot com
(24:42):
if you want to see some more visual stuff on there,
if you want to contact me, and these are free
to listen to, but they're not free to put out.
So you think this is worth a dollar a month
or more fraction of the cost of any box of
AMO pretty much nowadays, maybe less than one round of
ambiition of the calibers we talked to one round of AMMO.
You could support this message again Good Shepherd Training dot com.
(25:06):
There's a Patreon link right on there. If you like
this message and support the message and think it's worth
a dollar, or any other podcasts for that matter, and
you do get some extra content on that, you get
some extra tips. For instance, you'll get an insider view
of a rerofessional hunter and guide slash trapper. My trapping
kit is on there that I would use, some tips
that aren't available to the general public, or that I
(25:27):
put out on there first or available, and you can
just contact me on there. You can message me on there,
and if it's a question, if everybody's asking me a
question on there has gotten an answer, you can talk
to me on there. If you actually care about and
value my opinion, or respectfully disagree with my opinion, you
can converse with me on Patreon again. Good Shepherd Training
dot com with that as a thank you for saying
(25:50):
tune through all of that. The tactical tip of the
day and the tactical verse of the day. This one
may be known throughout the prepper community quite well for
food storage, but you might not know it in the
hunting and tactical community as much. A good way to
store your food and keep it dry. You don't know
those moisture absorbing things a lot of times just iron oxide,
(26:13):
they're just causing rust, which takes moisture out of the air.
You spend a bunch of money on those kind of things,
or you can just use handwarmers. Handwarmers are kind of
like a giant version of that. They take moisture out
of a given environment, especially with a closed environment. If
you're storing your AMMO, especially with the Ammo the way
it is now, it might just be able to go
(26:34):
to Walmart like we used to do no way back
in the three or four years ago, and just buy
a box of AMMO on your way to side in
your rifle have to find it ahead of time on
the internet and store it. So if you're storing Ammo
and Ammo cans or any kind of watertight air type thing,
take one of those handwarmers. They're super cheap, come in
packs of two for a dollar or something around there.
(26:55):
I mean, and now might be an old price with
today's inflation, who knows, but the defensive, especially compared to
the cost of Ammo. So take one of them, shake
it up and throw it in your AMMO can and seal.
It helps keep your AMMO dry and hopefully lasts longer,
especially and everything going on today in the craziness. Hopefully
that if you didn't know, it was a good tactical
(27:15):
tip of the day, tactical diverse of the day, if
you didn't listen to simple man sermons, one of the
ones we talked about. God resists the proud, what gives
grace to the humble. Humble yourself, therefore, under the mighty
hand of God, casting all your cares upon him, because
He cares for you, Be sober and vigilant, because your adversary,
(27:40):
the devil, rows around like a roaring lion, seeking whom
he may devour. Thanks for listening, have a blessed day,
Hello, and welcome to Gunfighter Life, the podcast where we
talk about gun fighting the right way, with God at
the center, Judeo Christian values, and real world firsthand experience.
Don't reread the like, subscribe, leave review of the podcast.
I'm gonna plug in the bio. If you've heard it,
don't want to hear it again, or just don't care,
(00:22):
you can skip about three minutes and forty five seconds
from where it starts. First and foremost, I am a
servant of God, preacher, a fisher of men. God is
number one in my life, and everything that I do
in this podcast is no different, and I don't apologize
(00:44):
for that. A little bit about me in the background.
I grew up I guess what would consider a heathen.
Didn't grow up a Christian, but I grew up in
the Southeastern United States what most will consider very poor,
hunting and fishing and shooting. Joined the Marine Corps seventeen,
did a couple of combat tours in Iraq. After my
(01:05):
combat tours in Iraq, I was an urban warfare instructor
for the United States Marine Corps under Mohabi Viper. I
also served in law enforcement for several years in LAPD.
I worked patrol assignments and more specialized assignments, whereby God's
grace he got me through some nasty places in this world,
(01:26):
war zones and some of the nastiest streets in the country,
not because I am better, because God chose that mercy
on me and had a purpose for me, and I'm
thankful for that. After my time in law enforcement, I
was a private contractor for a federal government for a
three letter government agency. I won't specify doing private contracting work.
(01:48):
I'm very much involved in guns and gun fighting. I
also served in the US Army, both full time and
part time National Guard. I should say my primes is
in both branches of the military or infantry as of
one sort or another. Specialized infantry in the Marine Corps
and MS it no longer exists. I started competition shooting
(02:12):
even before I joined the Marine Corps seventeen. I won
my first gold medal Eavene before I joined the Marine
Corps seventeen. I've been blessed by God with the talents
he's given me to win more shooting competitions than I
can remember. I've won most of my competitions and rifle
and pistol, but I've also competed in archery and shotgun
and even muzzle loader, the knife throwing, hatchet throwing. I've
(02:35):
competed in all that. I've also been a professional big
game hunter and guide. Like I said, I grew up
hunting and fishing and shooting. I've done it to put
meat on the table, because I like to put food
on the table with the talents God's given me. I
don't apologize for that. I've done it as a professional
hunter and guide. I've slain all manner of beast and
(02:58):
guided for all manner of beast, bear and wolf, and
elk and deer, mule, deer, of white tailed deer, of
slain ram and fallow deer, and countless animals. And I
don't apologize for that either. FBI Certified Firearms Instructor NRA,
(03:20):
and a bunch of other three letter government agency certifications.
Blessed be the Lord of my rock, who trains my
hands for war on my fingers for battle. So I'm
one forty four. I've been blessed to be the commander
of a tactical team, an SRT special response team in
a large metropolitan area where a primary job was to
(03:42):
stop active shooters but again, first and foremost, I'm a
servant of God, called by God to share the good news, preacher,
a fisher of men. With that, we will roll into
(04:05):
the day's topic. All right, man, with that, let's get
into today's episode of Gunfighter Life. Recently did an episode
on top three varming cartridges, and I thought about it,
and I was like, well, how was it that I
did that one before I did the top deer cartridges.
(04:26):
I thought it only fair that I go and do
the top deer cartridges. As I believe, we are a
nation of deer hunters. We hunt a lot of things
in this country. You know, we hunt moose, and we
hunt bear, and we hunt grouse, and we hunt pheasants
and ducks. If you took a random survey of people
(04:46):
and said hunting, probably the number one game, man, what
I'm just guessing here they would think of would be deer.
And I think that all over this country, both mule deer,
whitetail deer, blacktail deer, all across this nation, we are
kind of a nation of deer hunters. Now, most hunters
hunt other things too, but I think quin essentially in
(05:10):
America we are deer hunters. So what do I believe
are the top deer hunting cartridges. Well, I think that
the first one is going to be pretty obvious. I mean,
the standard for you know, center just period center fire
(05:33):
rifle cartridges in America is the thirty six. It's been
around for over one hundred years. And when you think
of any cartridge and you're comparing it, the obvious thing
that you think of is how does it compare to
the thirty six? Pretty simple that the thirty six is
(05:54):
a thirty caliber not quite developed in nineteen oh six,
but that's when it official godess designation. It's a little
bit older than that. But thirty caliber developed in nineteen
oh six, was used by the military, and obviously a
lot of those men were hunters, and a lot of
those men came back from war and hunted both World
War One and World War Two. That was our go
(06:15):
to American riflemen chartridge. And I think America prides itself
on being a nation of good riflemen, or at least
has in the past, and that was an obvious choice.
It was a giant leap forward from the things that
had come before it. You know, doubtably the thirty forty
krag can hunt deer fine, but not like the thirty
(06:36):
all six. Forty five seventy has and still does take deer,
but not like the thirty all six. The thirty all six,
like it or not kind of as a stolen idea
from the seven x fifty seven Mauser. You can hate
on me for saying that, but it's pretty undisputable that
(06:56):
that's true. We took that from the Germans, We took
that from the seven x fifty seven Miles, or even
kind of took their design for the mals of ninety
eight and the nineteen oh three Springfield. That doesn't mean
that the thirty out six has not become the quintessential
iconic American round. Now. One of the great things about
the thirty out six is that it is so popular
(07:16):
and so versatile and been around for so long that
it really is flexible. Again, I'm going to refer to
the Hornity Reloading Manual not because it's the best right
it has the hottest load, because it's the manual that
I have and that I've had for years and years.
In my experience, this one's kind of known for playing
it safe on the load data. But this is the
load data that I'm going to use because it's what's
(07:37):
in front of me. Backery loads often are hotter than
the load's listed here. But if you think a deer
hunting and the thirty out six, you generally think of
the one hundred and fifty grain two, the one hundred
and sixty eight grain bullets. Maybe the one eighty grains
if you're hunting bigger game or in heavier timber, but
let's call it one fifty to one eighty grains. You
(07:59):
guys remember theriginal Batman? Now the original Batman. The Batman
with Michael Keaton came out, I think in the eighties
when I was a kid. Scene where he goes, you
want to get nuts, Let's get nuts. Just thought about that, Well,
you want to get nerdy about ballistics, let's get nerdy.
The thirty out six springfield well one hundred and fifty
one hundred and fifty crap five grand bullet is pushing
(08:21):
max velocities of about three thousand feet a second. With
your one sixty five to one sixty eight grain bullets,
you're looking at around twenty nine hundred feet a second.
That's probably your optimal low than the thirty out six.
You're won eighty grains or dropping out of twenty seven
hundred feet per second, and those velocities are fine. I
(08:41):
have plenty of energy for taking any deer in North
America at any reasonable range. And they have for decades
and decades and decades been the standard for deer hunting
in America. The thirty out six is quinnal, essentially American
and iconic. Let me tell you something. I've never owned
a thirty out six. I don't believe. I don't generally
(09:03):
have any plans to own a thirty out six, but
I can't deny that it is the number one quintessential
American deer hunting cartridge. It is a great cartridge, so
much so that it only took a little bit of
refinement when the military was looking for a new cartridge.
And this next cartridge is probably one of the big
reasons I don't own a thirty out six. This is
the number two. I bet you already know what it is.
(09:26):
It is one of my favorite all around cartridges. It
is the three to oh weeight Winchester. You look at
the three away Winchester, you know it's no secret that
they were looking at the thirty out six. Americans like
the thirty out six Military is looking to save weight
and have a more efficient cartridge, which I think they
achieved with the three ahweight Winchester. We look at that
(09:47):
same ballistic Geek data. You're looking at one hundred and
fifty grain bullet, which I think for the three O
wait is probably the most common the three the one
to fifty grain to the one hundred and sixty five grain.
You don't see as much of the under and eighty
grain really starts to lose ground to the three weight
in one hundred and eighty grain, but it holds pretty high.
And then one fifty to the one sixty eight grain bullets,
(10:09):
which again are the most common for deer hunting in
North America. And you're looking at, you know, twenty eight
hundred feet a second. And again this is my quarranty
reloading man. You can get hotter loads. You can make
hotter loads for the one sixty eight you're looking at
twenty seven hundred feet a second. Again, plenty plenty, powerful
enough to take any deer in North America at any
(10:32):
reasonable range. And we there's really this really isn't an
official term, really, but a lot of gun manufacturers use it.
It's commonly referred to in American vernacular long action versus
short action. One essential thing that Americans hunt with is
both action rifles for deer. I mean, elever actions are popular.
(10:54):
You know, semi auto is becoming more popular. But really,
when you think about hunting deer in North America, you
don't think of a bolt action rifle. And there's a
difference between a long and a short action. Now you
can argue whether one is more accurate than the other,
or whether one is faster to cycle. I don't know
that practically in the field it really makes much difference,
but it is an advantage. That's the reason the military
(11:14):
went to it. Advantage in weight. It's lighter for the amal,
which relate as a matter if you're carrying five rounds
if you're carrying five hundred. It might or advantage in
the lightness and the length of the action of the rifle.
And I don't think anybody would argue that it's not
a more efficient cartridge. In the thirty out six, I
didn't say better, I said more efficient. Now I'm not
(11:37):
looking this up, but I believe it became a sporting
cartridge in America in the nineteen fifties. So even the
three O eight is not, you know, a spring chicken.
But because I think it is a more efficient version
of the iconic and classic American thirty out six, I
think that really helped it. You know, in America, we
really love our thirty calibers, and the three L eight
is one of my personal favorites, and a great thing
(12:01):
about it is a good crossover tactical defensive round, tactical round,
military police round, as well as a hunting round, and
the thirty out six used to be that. But I
would argue it's nobody could argue that it's that anymore,
I don't believe. So if you were looking for a
do it all rifle, you'd be hard pressed to beat
anything other than the three H eight, in my opinion,
(12:24):
my opinion, the next one, the next one. You can't
argue with this quin essential American deer hunting cartridge, the
thirty thirty. The thirty thirty pre dates even by quite
a bit, the thirty six. The manual I'm looking at
(12:45):
says since eighteen ninety five, eighteen ninety five, the thirty
thirty came out, and it's been killing deer ever since.
You could start a bar fight with what's killed more
deer in America, the thirty out six or the thirty thirty.
The fact that you would have that argument, you probably
(13:07):
have a pretty even split on both sides, tells you
that this is a quintessential, iconic American caliber, and I
wish it was still more popular really for most hunting,
for most people in most situations. I'm not talking about
the new trendy hunting where you put your twenty pounds
rifle on a tripod and shoot animals from hundreds of
yards away. I'm talking about heading into the deer woods
(13:30):
with the word of God, pair of boots and a rifle,
either spot in stall hunting or still hunting, or maybe
even stand hunting, which is not my favorite but arguably
is probably one of the most common ways to hunt
deer in America with the quintessential where it's still legal
drive hunting deer, the thirty thirty'll get it done. The
(13:51):
thirty of thirty'll get it done. All the time it doesn't,
it's probably your fault, not the cartridge's fault. It's a
good deer round. I would argue that the vast majority
of deer taken taken under one hundred and fifty yards.
With that, the thirty thirty is just fine and it
has energy to kill dear Beyond that, it's kind of
your point blank range. For that you guys don't If
(14:12):
you guys don't know what point blank means. It doesn't
mean you know something right in front of you, or
a person right in front of you, or deer right
in front of you. It means the distance that you
can zero rifle and point at a given target and
hit it without adjusting your dope, just in the settings
of your site. It's adjusting your holdover. You point at it,
you pull the trigger. If you do everything right as
(14:34):
far as keeping the gun steady, that round will kill
that thing, you know. And point blank range on a
thirty thirty is easily one hundred and fifty yards, and
for that for most hunting, for most people in America,
the thirty thirty is still fine. And you know, the
Winchester ninety four and the Marlin Model three thirty six
are just quintessential American lever action deer hunting cartridges, and
(14:57):
they're great handy woods car beings, they're great stalking car beans,
you know, kind of the quintessential olds for this year,
one fifty grain at twenty three hundred feet a second,
and you're one seventy grain at twenty two hundred feet
a second. Again, plenty to kill any deer in North America. Now,
if you'll notice, these are all thirty calibers, and there's
(15:17):
a reason for that. I think Americans you know, gravitate
to and have probably because of and since the thirty
thirty and the thirty out six thirty caliber rounds. The
next two are not going to be that. They're going
to be wildcats based on two of the ones we
already talked about. If you don't know, wildcats in cartes
where you're taking existing cartridge that's established, like a thirty
(15:40):
all six, and you neck it up, making the net
bigger or smaller to get a different diameter bullet in there.
In other ways the wildcat, but generally that's the most
common necking something up or necking something down. Well, the
thirty six having been around a while and people saying, hey,
this is great, but bet I can make it better.
You guys, remember that show Home Improvement or tool Time,
(16:01):
which everyone was the name of the show or the
show inside the show, don't really remember it? Was always
more power, more power. Well, that's kind of quintessentially American too.
How can I take this thing and hot rot it
or wild cat it and make it better? Well, the
thirty out six was an obvious choice for this, and
so per the manual I'm looking at in nineteen twenty five,
(16:22):
they did this by nacking the thirty out six down
to twenty seven caliber. To now you probably know the
two seventy. The two seventy is quinn essentially iconic American
American wildcatting interpretation, hot rotting of an American cartridge, this
quintessential great American thing, and make it even, I argue
(16:43):
to say, better, but more tuned to a Western style
of hunting, and the two seventy is born the two seventy,
the thirty out six NAC down a twenty seven caliber.
You can't really mention this without talking about Jack O'Connor,
a prolific gun writer in America. I think you really
popularize this cartridge. It's hard to say whether it would
have taken off as much without him, but the fact
(17:06):
is that it did. And that's American history, a little
piece of Americana, and it's been around since nineteen twenty
five and it's still super popular now. I know a
lot of people live vist of the Mississippi, but a
lot of deer hunting goes on west of the Mississippi,
and I'd say the two seventy is one of, if
not the go to western deer hunting cartridge. It has
been for a long time. Kind of your classics for
(17:27):
this are one hundred and thirty one hundred and forty
grand bullets. You're looking at one hundred and thirty grand
bullet at thirty one hundred feet a second, and you're
looking at one hundred and forty grand bullet at three
thousand feet a second. Again, for your western hunting, where
east of the Mississippi unless you own a bean field
or own or give permission a hot like a long
farm field if you're hunting woods, long shot is one
(17:47):
hundred yards a lot of the Eastern states and the
other exceptions, but in the Western States you easily see
several hundred yards routinely, and out there the two seventy
really does, I think maybe have an advantage deer hunting
out west. I'd say it was better than the thirty
out six. I'd say for that style of hunting does
give a little bit greater range and a little bit
(18:09):
greater reach with a little bit less usually felt recoil,
all of the things being equal, and usually usually not
the two seventy. If that's a wild and which it
started out, obviously it started out, then it is adopted
and it's no longer a wildcat. And in fact, in
(18:30):
research that I've done, the origins of how and why
they settled on the two seven seven caliber bullet are
not really well known, especially not to me. Perhaps it
wasn't a wildcat, perhaps it was developed entirely by Winchester
for Winchester. Usually civilians wildcat these things and make their
own dies and stuff first, and then it gets adopted.
If the two seventy is what we what I would
(18:53):
refer to as a wildcat, of the thirty out six,
next one would be similar, and then necking down of
the three wait, my personal favorite on the list, and
the cartridge that I've used to take more deer and
elk than any other rifle cartridge, the two forty three Winchester.
(19:15):
Now you heard in the bio if you listen to it,
that I have been a professional big game hunter and guide.
But it was one of my personal favorites. Even before then.
I was surprised to find that with the professional hunters
and guides that I worked with, the number one cartridge
that we all carried was a two forty three. Didn't
just guide for deer deer was the biggest one, not
just white tailed deer, but fallow deer and seek a
(19:37):
deer and access deer. The number one cartridge just find
those guides carrying was a two forty three. Why is that? Well?
Because if you're hunting deer size game, the two forty
three old coat any deer in North America, and it
will do it with very little reco meaning you can
(19:58):
chamber and a nice handy rifle for a guide, that's
important a lot of other things going on. Even if
I'm not a guide, I'd rather the way that I hunt.
I'd rather cover more ground with a lighter, handier rifle.
And it's not that I can't handle heavy recoil, it's
that I don't want to. And if I don't need to,
why would I. The two forty three is often lumped
(20:18):
in as like a kid's rifle or a woman's rifle.
I think that really does it at this service. It
will kill any deer in North America, and it'll do
it with less recoil, with a high you know, sectional
density BC bullet and a light, handy rifle that I
can cover more ground. In fact, I first kind of
fell in love with it when I moved to Idaho
(20:39):
and I had a three to weight and I'd hunted
with a threewight successfully and I saw sitting in Walmart
a youth rifle two forty three Remington Model seven hundred.
I want to say I picked it up for four
hundred dollars maybe three ninety nine, with a scope, and
I was light and handy, and I hiked all over
the wilderness and woods of Idaho and took I don't
remember how many deer and elk with it because it
(21:01):
was light and handy, and it would kill anything if
I put the bullet, a well constructed bullet in the
right place. And for deer sized game, the two forty
three will do it. And it's got and ever recoil
can be subjective, but it's got the least amount of
recoil of any of the cartries we've talked about. It's
still plenty for knocking down deer size game and it's
(21:21):
got a good efficient bullet. Two forty three or six
milimeter bullets for launching lighter bullets and other cartridges that
we talked about generally four deer to seventy five and
even more common the ninety something two hundred and something
grain bullets. My personal favorite for this, especially handloads, is
the eighty five grand Sierra Game King. Again I've taken
(21:45):
I don't know how many deer and elk with this
cartridge generally goes in dumps all its energy, does a
massive amount of tissue damage and fragmenting debt, and usually
doesn't exit the other side of an animal. It usually
stops just sure on the skin on the other side
of the animal, which is for me, is amazing. I
like that. I like that cartridge. I like that performance.
(22:06):
I like the two forty three. Now with the two
forty three, let's get nerdy. You're launching a seventy five
graind bullet at thirty four hundred feet a second. Thirty
four hundred feet a second seventy five grand bullet. A
lot of people today I know that is twenty three,
which I don't consider a great deer cartridge. I consider
(22:27):
it a marginal deer cartridge, but a lot of people
hunt with it and take deer with it. People think
like the seventy something ish seventy seventy grain bullets are
the quintessential deer hunting round. For the two twenty three,
I'm talking if you look at that for the same
manual reloading data, this is a seventy five graind bullet
at twenty seven hundred feet a second. Again, the two
(22:48):
forty three seventy five grand bullet at thirty four hundred
feet a second, and the one hundred grand bullets at
three grand. Again, plenty out of it. Whether it's and
I pulled this up on Wikipedia because my manual doesn't
list foot pounds eighty grain to one hundred grain. You're
just shy of two thousand foot pounds of energy with
(23:12):
that to become kind of considered the sledgehammer in the
two twenty three, Well, it's a seventy seven grain. You're
looking at thirteen hundred foot pounds. That's not a marginal
living between thirteen hundred and almost two thousand with that.
That's been my top picks for the quintessential American deer
hunting cartridges. If I left out one that you think
(23:35):
should be on the list, not your favorite, because your
favorite could be a you know, two fifty savage. It's
a great round, is it really? Does it supplant any
of the ones on the list? If you're like I
can't believe you didn't mention the whatever, you know the
way to object respectfully and at get everyone to see it.
Give review of the podcast and refer to this episode
(23:57):
and say I think you should have had the twenty
five out six on there. Believe the three hundred Winchester
magnum is not on there? Now let me know and
let everybody else know, as long as it's respectful. Leave
your review of the podcast. I guess a good transition
to that to the Patreon and the Good Shepherd Training.
If you like this podcast, you're not aware there's also
the Alpha Male podcast. We talk about more than just guns,
(24:18):
about general manliness, the right way with God at the center.
If you care about the important stuff, simple man sermons,
the preachings of a simple man called by God to
share the good news of Jesus Christ. You can check
all those out under the umbrella of Good Shepherd Training
dot com. If you don't remember the names, you can
obviously probably look them all up on whatever platform you're
listening to this on, but Good Shepherd Training dot com
(24:42):
if you want to see some more visual stuff on there,
if you want to contact me, and these are free
to listen to, but they're not free to put out.
So you think this is worth a dollar a month
or more fraction of the cost of any box of
AMO pretty much nowadays, maybe less than one round of
ambiition of the calibers we talked to one round of AMMO.
You could support this message again Good Shepherd Training dot com.
(25:06):
There's a Patreon link right on there. If you like
this message and support the message and think it's worth
a dollar, or any other podcasts for that matter, and
you do get some extra content on that, you get
some extra tips. For instance, you'll get an insider view
of a rerofessional hunter and guide slash trapper. My trapping
kit is on there that I would use, some tips
that aren't available to the general public, or that I
(25:27):
put out on there first or available, and you can
just contact me on there. You can message me on there,
and if it's a question, if everybody's asking me a
question on there has gotten an answer, you can talk
to me on there. If you actually care about and
value my opinion, or respectfully disagree with my opinion, you
can converse with me on Patreon again. Good Shepherd Training
dot com with that as a thank you for saying
(25:50):
tune through all of that. The tactical tip of the
day and the tactical verse of the day. This one
may be known throughout the prepper community quite well for
food storage, but you might not know it in the
hunting and tactical community as much. A good way to
store your food and keep it dry. You don't know
those moisture absorbing things a lot of times just iron oxide,
(26:13):
they're just causing rust, which takes moisture out of the air.
You spend a bunch of money on those kind of things,
or you can just use handwarmers. Handwarmers are kind of
like a giant version of that. They take moisture out
of a given environment, especially with a closed environment. If
you're storing your AMMO, especially with the Ammo the way
it is now, it might just be able to go
(26:34):
to Walmart like we used to do no way back
in the three or four years ago, and just buy
a box of AMMO on your way to side in
your rifle have to find it ahead of time on
the internet and store it. So if you're storing Ammo
and Ammo cans or any kind of watertight air type thing,
take one of those handwarmers. They're super cheap, come in
packs of two for a dollar or something around there.
(26:55):
I mean, and now might be an old price with
today's inflation, who knows, but the defensive, especially compared to
the cost of Ammo. So take one of them, shake
it up and throw it in your AMMO can and seal.
It helps keep your AMMO dry and hopefully lasts longer,
especially and everything going on today in the craziness. Hopefully
that if you didn't know, it was a good tactical
(27:15):
tip of the day, tactical diverse of the day, if
you didn't listen to simple man sermons, one of the
ones we talked about. God resists the proud, what gives
grace to the humble. Humble yourself, therefore, under the mighty
hand of God, casting all your cares upon him, because
He cares for you, Be sober and vigilant, because your adversary,
(27:40):
the devil, rows around like a roaring lion, seeking whom
he may devour. Thanks for listening, have a blessed day,
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