July 31, 2025 • 21 mins
No roleplays, just real. Thank you for 8 amazing years.
-Chris & Lorenzo
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hacking-your-leadership-podcast--4805674/support.
-Chris & Lorenzo
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hacking-your-leadership-podcast--4805674/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo,
and Lorenzo on this episode, I want to go over
something pretty important and special and different and I can't
even think of the right words because there there are
no words. But this is, for at least the foreseeable future,
(00:24):
the last episode of Hacking Your Leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Bump bump, Yes, yes it is. I think it's. You know,
we've had a lot of years in this game and
doing this show, and we know we've talked about it
multiple times. When do you decide and when do you
figure it out? And when do you kind of evolve
or change or move on or stop? And there's never
(00:48):
a shortage of leadership topics to talk about. But I
also know that, like, as we've grown and developed, and
as we've found things to get into and things to
work on, there's always a good time to take a pause.
And after this many years of consistent episodes, it felt
right to uh get to this point of a you know,
(01:09):
yearly anniversary of the show and then say, hey, let's
uh let's take a break and let's uh let's figure
out what happens from here.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's important to sometimes
figure out what things, what the things in our lives,
what value they add, and and sometimes it's hard to
figure that out when you're in that rhythm right. Sometimes
you have to change things up to figure out if
(01:37):
you've done the right thing or not. And that might
be the case, like were, there might be you know,
massive public backlash from all of our fans saying, you know,
get your butts back in the studio and keep going
because we depend on this, and you know, and it
might look a little different. It might it might be
a few months, it might be longer, it might not
(01:59):
might be ever. But there's you know, my favorite band
of all time is You Two, and it's kind of
kind of cheesy, but a long time ago, the lead
singer of You Two, Bono, said that the band was
going to break up. This is like back in nineteen
eighty nine. He says, it's time to go to go
away and dream it all back up again. And and
you know, with the with the idea fully in his
(02:21):
mind that it might not be ever like that. It
might dreaming it all up again might not mean that
it comes back at all. And I think that's kind
of where I am right now or where we are
right now, which is just that we don't know what
the next iteration will look like or if there will
be one. But but we're trying to figure out what
value this show adds to our own lives from the investment.
(02:48):
And I'm not talking about money. I'm talking about just
the emotional capital and the fact that as as working
parents of young children and limited time, trying to figure
out where that where it fits in and the value
that it brings in the trade offs in time that
that it comes with, and you.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Know, it's got to be worth it.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It's got to be worth it, and it has to
be something that we that we want to continue doing
because of the value that it brings. And we're trying
to figure out what that looks like and if it does
still does still fit within our lives in some way,
and that'll take some time to figure out.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I think over the
over the years, one of the questions that I get
constantly from people it's around podcasting is like, how do
you guys do it? How how are you so consistent?
And how you done it for so long? How do
you make sure that you've always got content? In this
type of thing, and I think we've done a really
nice job of just refining it. And you know, from
(03:41):
the first episode, we were like, we just want to
talk about it. We don't want any script, We don't
want to you know, overproduce this, we don't want to
over edit this. We just want to talk about leadership
and answer questions and provide our perspective. And I think
over the years we've done a really good job of
like getting that down to just like hit the record button,
here's the topic, let's go. But also to your point,
(04:03):
you know, I think that there there's other vehicles. We've
tried some different ways of also continuing to talk about
leadership and whether that's in you know, we started interviewing guests,
we started doing you know, writing and newsletters and clubhouse
you know talk club clubhouse exactly, yep, clubhouse audio, right, Like,
just a lot of stuff that we did to just share,
(04:25):
to share our perspective and provide, you know, what we
thought would be helpful for people. And there are a
ton of other leadership people that are in the space
that we are fans of that we like that we
often reference or or share, and that's another part of
this platform that you know, we've talked a lot about us,
how can we use this to help others that have
(04:46):
great messages get their messages out there? That's always been
really important and I think that's something that you know,
we're not going to delete the channel, We're not going
to delete the library. You know, these episodes and there's
a lot of them, will continue to exist in a
space where people can listen to them and check them out.
And who knows, from time to time, we might we
might feel the need to you know, put some content out,
(05:08):
whether it's our somebody else's, just to be able to
continue to share in the initial idea of the show,
which is like, how do we do our best to
share thoughts, perspectives and advice you know, to other leaders
in the work that you do in leading people. And
I think, you know, in our eight years of doing
the show, a lot of our own leadership has matured
(05:31):
and solidified, and our perspectives have sharpened as a result
of the conversations that we've had with each other and
with guests that we've had on.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I agree completely with that.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I think they're you know, the the most to me,
the most valuable content for the show comes from our
own personal experiences, and so you know, it can start
out with a listener question or an article we saw
online or a video that we saw that that resonated
with us. But the reason that resonated with us, or
the reason why the question was something that we thought
(06:01):
it was nice to be a nice thing to answer,
is because some one of us experienced something in our
own lives and our own leadership journey that we can say, oh,
you know what, I have some perspective on this, like
I went through something similar or sometimes the exact same thing,
and I can I can share how either I made
the wrong move and learned from it, or made the
(06:21):
right move by luck, or made the right move by
skill because I had been in this situation before, and
like it all, it all stems from just the experiences
that we have, and that's where the content becomes most valuable.
And you know that content or that those experiences continue
(06:42):
to happen over the last eight years as we were
talking about them, which is why there was really never
a shortage of topics because it wasn't just about like
you know, it's not like a sitcom where you have
to just find a new trope.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Or a new a new joke to write every week.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
This is just thinking about real life and the interactions
that we have with the people who report to us,
the people we interact with in our own leadership lives,
and then talking about those experiences in a way that
is meaningful and that shows the learnings that we have
had from them. And I think that that's that's why
the show has resonated with with so many people, is
(07:17):
because it's not it's not made up, you know, it's
it's based on the real things that happen in our
lives and and the vulnerability that comes with, you know,
sharing those learnings and those missteps especially.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, exactly, I think, you know, sharing places where we've
made mistakes or things that we've learned, sharing you know,
passionately about you know, processes and strategies and approaches to leadership.
And you know, I think over the years we've we've
we've had all kinds of conversations from like funny times
(07:52):
of things that have happened to silly stuff that happens
in different industries, to serious topics that you know, have
a real impact on people, to topics that you know,
over the years have evolved in how we see them
in society, how we see them in the workforce, you know,
to leaders and maybe strategies and discussions that we had
(08:13):
eight years ago to then getting through you know, twenty
twenty and COVID and all that type of thing, to
then kind of the new iteration of that, and we
talked a lot about what things have really solidified and
then what things are new, and what things are wide open,
and how is you know, the you know, how are
our people, the workforce, the culture now in a place
(08:35):
where we're holding leaders accountable in a very different way
and in a good way, which is just raising the
bar of what should be expected from having a leader
that's supposed to be there to inspire and motivate, you know,
help support people do the work that they're doing. And
I think that that's been a really fun part of
the journey, is just being a part of conversations that
(08:57):
I think we're relevant really closely in the moment. Like
I immediately get brought back to the We did an
episode about a hurricane that happened in Florida, and oh yeah,
it was a you know, come to work anyway. It
was like a pizza place that was just like we
don't care go to work, right. We just talked about
that and it was like, how ridiculous is that? And
(09:17):
you know, that was something that we read in the news.
And there's just those moments that happened that I think
really skyrocketed what what is the expectation of leadership and
what is the what are the right things to do
or the right way to handle things? And I think
that's probably been the most fun for me is just
the amount of listeners that have reached out in so
(09:40):
many different ways continue to share our content. It just
happened last week somebody shared one of our short clips
on LinkedIn and talked about how important this subject was
and how it was something they struggled with and they
work through. So, you know, I just it's been a
fun journey. But I think I've just enjoyed watching the
conversations that we've had continue to go through other listeners
(10:02):
and leaders that feel the same way or want to
share their perspective on some of the topics.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, the example you gave just now of that hurricane thing,
it kind of made me think of something that I
think is important to kind of discuss, and that's that
that it's it's hard not to think that our own,
like our experience in leadership, both as a leader of
people and as as someone who has reported to leaders
(10:30):
throughout our journeys, we've all had, we've all always had,
we both always had a boss at any given time.
There's always been one, sometimes more than one. And the
examples of like that that hurricane in Florida is it's
really difficult sometimes not to think that our own perspective
(10:51):
or our own experience as employees reporting to leaders, it's
hard not to think that that's the norm, because I
think both of have been very fortunate in our leadership
journeys that we've had goodly bosses and bad bosses. I
can definitely, you know, place them in a hierarchical order, right.
I've learned from the good ones that I've learned sometimes
(11:11):
even more from the bad ones, but none of them
have ever risen to that level of like, you know,
I don't care about your safety.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Come to work at a pizza place.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You know, And and because of that, it's it's sometimes
it's hard not to not to chuckle at that a
little bit and think like that's it's almost satire, but
it's not. And I think over the years, the instances
of that happening are far less than it would have been,
(11:43):
you know, thirty forty fifty years ago. I think a
lot of it has to do with, you know, the
visibility to things like that happening. If if that happened,
if that interaction happened between the pizza place owner and
the employee in nineteen eighty two, no one would ever
know about it because there'd be no place to show it,
to share it with everybody, right, and that would just happen.
(12:04):
And nowadays it gets shared and there's a there's a
level of social accountability that at least has helped keep
some leaders, you know, on the straight and narrow a
little bit, you know, for even if not for the
right reasons, sometimes doing the right thing for the wrong
reasons is still the right thing, right.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
You know, you're still doing it.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
And I think that has kind of moved the needle
on the experience employees have. But there are still areas
where it is not good. There are still areas, there
are still places across the workforce where the employee experience
is not great.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And I think anytime that is the case, all roads
lead back to leadership.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
All roads of the of a negative employee experience lead
back to the effectiveness of the leadership team in that
organization and what they're doing or how they're prioritizing the
employee experience and.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Whether or not they do it.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
All to begin with Yeah, No, it's it's a great call,
and I think it's a you know, yeah, I'm just
I'm just I'm just stuck in the space of just
thinking about, like, how do you possibly provide thank you
user gratitude to all of the people that have like
pushed our show forward, from whether it be guests that
(13:20):
said yes right away, you know, like I think of
you know, we for a long time we didn't do guests,
and then we really wanted to build some space to say, like, well,
we want to talk to the people that we want
to talk to. And then it was kind of like
nerve wrecking, Well let's reach let's reach out to the
people that we want to talk to. And the fact
that so many of them said yes and they're like yeah,
of course, absolutely, Like that was tremendous. I think of
all of the listener questions and the text messages dms,
(13:44):
the screenshots that were sent to me about people listening
to the show, just like the continual push forward from
people to say like, hey love this, love that I'm
using it this way.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
We've had leaders from from organizations reach out and say, hey,
we've put together a collection of what we think are
the ten shows that resonate most with our workforce, and
we've turned this into like a training document.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Is that cool?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And we're like yeah, of course, like you know, like
whatever whatever you want to do, Like the whole point
of this is like, yeah, use it for whatever you can.
But like, I just think about all of those listeners, uh,
and people that helped to push us to continue to
like evolve what we talked about evolve, you know, the
way that we were doing our episodes, the you know,
(14:30):
the the guests interviews that pay it Forward Fridays, the
employee engagement Thursdays, the Thoughtful Thursdays. Like we did so
many things that I think we were driven by people
that listen to the show. And I think that's something
that's cool about the podcasting space when you have that
connection with an audience, is that you know you can
(14:53):
adjust and move and pivot to the places that they
want you to go to. And and I think that
that's been a fun part of the journey. It's just
continuing to like, you know, have people that have an
influence on how I'm thinking about leadership that I don't
even know, you know what I'm saying, not alone, like
don't work with every day, but like complete strangers and
thousands of them saying, hey, you should talk about this,
(15:15):
or we need to talk about that, and things that
maybe I hadn't even considered in my own leadership or
things that I hadn't come across yet that I now
had to have an opinion on and had to think through.
And I think that was super fun and helpful.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, it has made me better at leadership.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Right, there's just the interactions with our audience and the
the things that we've had to contemplate and think about
and and you know, it's we talked, we talk off
on the show about the importance of at of leading
with values, right about figuring out what is important to
(15:51):
you and then leading with that and allowing that to
guide your decision making process as a leader. And then
and then if you allow it to go your decision
making process as a leader, and the outcome isn't what
you what what it needed to be. Then Okay, then
does that mean that you didn't really use that as
a guide or does it mean that your your values
(16:11):
need to tweak or change a little.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Bit based on the the.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Time are you are?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
You?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Are they not well defined yet because of the experience
or lack thereof that you that you have in the workforce,
Like all these things happen over time, and and as you.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
The more you do it, the better a process it becomes.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And the the process of doing that through the lens
of the of the things that our listeners have asked
of us and kind of thinking, Okay, this hasn't happened
to me, but it's happening to one of our listeners
who's who's asking for advice on this? How how would
I deal with this? And And it's a lot harder
to do that hypothetically than it is if it's if
(16:48):
it's really happening, because you actually have to make the decision.
But it really has helped me test my values as
a leader by putting those situations through through the kind
of the mill of my personal values to see if
the outcome aligns with what is a appropriate for the
(17:09):
situation and b doesn't. But heads with my values right.
It kind of checks my values in the process to
see if they are still right, if they're still appropriate,
or if I need to tweak them. Because you if
you're never tweaking your values, it doesn't mean that you're steadfast.
It means that you are you know, unwilling to change
(17:32):
to changing times. Because your values should change over time.
They should just change thoughtfully and methodically and based on
like real true evidence, not you know, not whimsically, but
they but they should not remain the same, you know,
for forever. And these examples that we've gotten from our
our listeners has they've They've definitely caused me to to
(17:53):
to think through my values and what's important to me
and and make make tweaks or changes when appropriate. And
I think it's it's it's been very valuable to me too,
not just to our.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Listeners, absolutely, And with that it brings us to the
end of this chapter for hacking your leadership.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Before we go, I just you know, I know that
when we talked about doing this, Lorenzo, you said that
you really wanted to put some time and effort into
thinking through kind of like if you had one piece
of advice, like one nugget of advice for our listeners that,
(18:32):
you know, for somebody who is going into leadership or
new to leadership, or.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
If they're just struggling with leadership in general.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
You know, the thing that you'd want to have on
the wall in front of you every day that you
could look up at and and and read to yourself
and kind of like a rock or an anchor of
leadership advice to our listeners. You said you felt it
was really important to kind of have that kind of
like get to let our audience kind of take away
(19:02):
at the at the end of the last episode. And
I really like that idea, and you know, I know
you've already shared it with me, and I think it's fantastic.
I think you did a really great job of kind
of narrowing it down and thinking about something where the
rubber really meets the road that our our listeners can
(19:22):
take with them as they as they depart from the
show for a while. And so I'll let you take
it away and end the episode with this with this kernel.
But this is a really fantastic stuff here.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I mean, you know, we've had these one minute hacks
for the entire period, and I kind of felt that like,
this is really important to kind of like eight years,
you know, like over thousand episodes, how you slice it,
decades of leadership experience between the two of us, really
trying to boil this down to say, like what what
do you say and how do you help to guide
(19:56):
someone into their future? How do you help to take
someone who has been a leader for a long time
and give them something that may reshape the way they
think about leadership and can leave an impressed and very
like it kind of an impression of people that they
will take with them forever. People we always have those
quotes that we heard some people say that they just
(20:18):
stick with us and they help us, and those those
really tough times. And so you know what I would
say is like, you know, boiling it all down, all
that time, all that tenure, all that experience, all the
conversations that we've had, the tens of thousands of minutes
and hours of dialogue. For me, you know, leadership really
just comes down to this one very simple statement, and
(20:41):
that is
Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo,
and Lorenzo on this episode, I want to go over
something pretty important and special and different and I can't
even think of the right words because there there are
no words. But this is, for at least the foreseeable future,
(00:24):
the last episode of Hacking Your Leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Bump bump, Yes, yes it is. I think it's. You know,
we've had a lot of years in this game and
doing this show, and we know we've talked about it
multiple times. When do you decide and when do you
figure it out? And when do you kind of evolve
or change or move on or stop? And there's never
(00:48):
a shortage of leadership topics to talk about. But I
also know that, like, as we've grown and developed, and
as we've found things to get into and things to
work on, there's always a good time to take a pause.
And after this many years of consistent episodes, it felt
right to uh get to this point of a you know,
(01:09):
yearly anniversary of the show and then say, hey, let's
uh let's take a break and let's uh let's figure
out what happens from here.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's important to sometimes
figure out what things, what the things in our lives,
what value they add, and and sometimes it's hard to
figure that out when you're in that rhythm right. Sometimes
you have to change things up to figure out if
(01:37):
you've done the right thing or not. And that might
be the case, like were, there might be you know,
massive public backlash from all of our fans saying, you know,
get your butts back in the studio and keep going
because we depend on this, and you know, and it
might look a little different. It might it might be
a few months, it might be longer, it might not
(01:59):
might be ever. But there's you know, my favorite band
of all time is You Two, and it's kind of
kind of cheesy, but a long time ago, the lead
singer of You Two, Bono, said that the band was
going to break up. This is like back in nineteen
eighty nine. He says, it's time to go to go
away and dream it all back up again. And and
you know, with the with the idea fully in his
(02:21):
mind that it might not be ever like that. It
might dreaming it all up again might not mean that
it comes back at all. And I think that's kind
of where I am right now or where we are
right now, which is just that we don't know what
the next iteration will look like or if there will
be one. But but we're trying to figure out what
value this show adds to our own lives from the investment.
(02:48):
And I'm not talking about money. I'm talking about just
the emotional capital and the fact that as as working
parents of young children and limited time, trying to figure
out where that where it fits in and the value
that it brings in the trade offs in time that
that it comes with, and you.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Know, it's got to be worth it.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It's got to be worth it, and it has to
be something that we that we want to continue doing
because of the value that it brings. And we're trying
to figure out what that looks like and if it does
still does still fit within our lives in some way,
and that'll take some time to figure out.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I think over the
over the years, one of the questions that I get
constantly from people it's around podcasting is like, how do
you guys do it? How how are you so consistent?
And how you done it for so long? How do
you make sure that you've always got content? In this
type of thing, and I think we've done a really
nice job of just refining it. And you know, from
(03:41):
the first episode, we were like, we just want to
talk about it. We don't want any script, We don't
want to you know, overproduce this, we don't want to
over edit this. We just want to talk about leadership
and answer questions and provide our perspective. And I think
over the years we've done a really good job of
like getting that down to just like hit the record button,
here's the topic, let's go. But also to your point,
(04:03):
you know, I think that there there's other vehicles. We've
tried some different ways of also continuing to talk about
leadership and whether that's in you know, we started interviewing guests,
we started doing you know, writing and newsletters and clubhouse
you know talk club clubhouse exactly, yep, clubhouse audio, right, Like,
just a lot of stuff that we did to just share,
(04:25):
to share our perspective and provide, you know, what we
thought would be helpful for people. And there are a
ton of other leadership people that are in the space
that we are fans of that we like that we
often reference or or share, and that's another part of
this platform that you know, we've talked a lot about us,
how can we use this to help others that have
(04:46):
great messages get their messages out there? That's always been
really important and I think that's something that you know,
we're not going to delete the channel, We're not going
to delete the library. You know, these episodes and there's
a lot of them, will continue to exist in a
space where people can listen to them and check them out.
And who knows, from time to time, we might we
might feel the need to you know, put some content out,
(05:08):
whether it's our somebody else's, just to be able to
continue to share in the initial idea of the show,
which is like, how do we do our best to
share thoughts, perspectives and advice you know, to other leaders
in the work that you do in leading people. And
I think, you know, in our eight years of doing
the show, a lot of our own leadership has matured
(05:31):
and solidified, and our perspectives have sharpened as a result
of the conversations that we've had with each other and
with guests that we've had on.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I agree completely with that.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I think they're you know, the the most to me,
the most valuable content for the show comes from our
own personal experiences, and so you know, it can start
out with a listener question or an article we saw
online or a video that we saw that that resonated
with us. But the reason that resonated with us, or
the reason why the question was something that we thought
(06:01):
it was nice to be a nice thing to answer,
is because some one of us experienced something in our
own lives and our own leadership journey that we can say, oh,
you know what, I have some perspective on this, like
I went through something similar or sometimes the exact same thing,
and I can I can share how either I made
the wrong move and learned from it, or made the
(06:21):
right move by luck, or made the right move by
skill because I had been in this situation before, and
like it all, it all stems from just the experiences
that we have, and that's where the content becomes most valuable.
And you know that content or that those experiences continue
(06:42):
to happen over the last eight years as we were
talking about them, which is why there was really never
a shortage of topics because it wasn't just about like
you know, it's not like a sitcom where you have
to just find a new trope.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Or a new a new joke to write every week.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
This is just thinking about real life and the interactions
that we have with the people who report to us,
the people we interact with in our own leadership lives,
and then talking about those experiences in a way that
is meaningful and that shows the learnings that we have
had from them. And I think that that's that's why
the show has resonated with with so many people, is
(07:17):
because it's not it's not made up, you know, it's
it's based on the real things that happen in our
lives and and the vulnerability that comes with, you know,
sharing those learnings and those missteps especially.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, exactly, I think, you know, sharing places where we've
made mistakes or things that we've learned, sharing you know,
passionately about you know, processes and strategies and approaches to leadership.
And you know, I think over the years we've we've
we've had all kinds of conversations from like funny times
(07:52):
of things that have happened to silly stuff that happens
in different industries, to serious topics that you know, have
a real impact on people, to topics that you know,
over the years have evolved in how we see them
in society, how we see them in the workforce, you know,
to leaders and maybe strategies and discussions that we had
(08:13):
eight years ago to then getting through you know, twenty
twenty and COVID and all that type of thing, to
then kind of the new iteration of that, and we
talked a lot about what things have really solidified and
then what things are new, and what things are wide open,
and how is you know, the you know, how are
our people, the workforce, the culture now in a place
(08:35):
where we're holding leaders accountable in a very different way
and in a good way, which is just raising the
bar of what should be expected from having a leader
that's supposed to be there to inspire and motivate, you know,
help support people do the work that they're doing. And
I think that that's been a really fun part of
the journey, is just being a part of conversations that
(08:57):
I think we're relevant really closely in the moment. Like
I immediately get brought back to the We did an
episode about a hurricane that happened in Florida, and oh yeah,
it was a you know, come to work anyway. It
was like a pizza place that was just like we
don't care go to work, right. We just talked about
that and it was like, how ridiculous is that? And
(09:17):
you know, that was something that we read in the news.
And there's just those moments that happened that I think
really skyrocketed what what is the expectation of leadership and
what is the what are the right things to do
or the right way to handle things? And I think
that's probably been the most fun for me is just
the amount of listeners that have reached out in so
(09:40):
many different ways continue to share our content. It just
happened last week somebody shared one of our short clips
on LinkedIn and talked about how important this subject was
and how it was something they struggled with and they
work through. So, you know, I just it's been a
fun journey. But I think I've just enjoyed watching the
conversations that we've had continue to go through other listeners
(10:02):
and leaders that feel the same way or want to
share their perspective on some of the topics.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, the example you gave just now of that hurricane thing,
it kind of made me think of something that I
think is important to kind of discuss, and that's that
that it's it's hard not to think that our own,
like our experience in leadership, both as a leader of
people and as as someone who has reported to leaders
(10:30):
throughout our journeys, we've all had, we've all always had,
we both always had a boss at any given time.
There's always been one, sometimes more than one. And the
examples of like that that hurricane in Florida is it's
really difficult sometimes not to think that our own perspective
(10:51):
or our own experience as employees reporting to leaders, it's
hard not to think that that's the norm, because I
think both of have been very fortunate in our leadership
journeys that we've had goodly bosses and bad bosses. I
can definitely, you know, place them in a hierarchical order, right.
I've learned from the good ones that I've learned sometimes
(11:11):
even more from the bad ones, but none of them
have ever risen to that level of like, you know,
I don't care about your safety.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Come to work at a pizza place.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You know, And and because of that, it's it's sometimes
it's hard not to not to chuckle at that a
little bit and think like that's it's almost satire, but
it's not. And I think over the years, the instances
of that happening are far less than it would have been,
(11:43):
you know, thirty forty fifty years ago. I think a
lot of it has to do with, you know, the
visibility to things like that happening. If if that happened,
if that interaction happened between the pizza place owner and
the employee in nineteen eighty two, no one would ever
know about it because there'd be no place to show it,
to share it with everybody, right, and that would just happen.
(12:04):
And nowadays it gets shared and there's a there's a
level of social accountability that at least has helped keep
some leaders, you know, on the straight and narrow a
little bit, you know, for even if not for the
right reasons, sometimes doing the right thing for the wrong
reasons is still the right thing, right.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
You know, you're still doing it.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
And I think that has kind of moved the needle
on the experience employees have. But there are still areas
where it is not good. There are still areas, there
are still places across the workforce where the employee experience
is not great.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And I think anytime that is the case, all roads
lead back to leadership.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
All roads of the of a negative employee experience lead
back to the effectiveness of the leadership team in that
organization and what they're doing or how they're prioritizing the
employee experience and.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Whether or not they do it.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
All to begin with Yeah, No, it's it's a great call,
and I think it's a you know, yeah, I'm just
I'm just I'm just stuck in the space of just
thinking about, like, how do you possibly provide thank you
user gratitude to all of the people that have like
pushed our show forward, from whether it be guests that
(13:20):
said yes right away, you know, like I think of
you know, we for a long time we didn't do guests,
and then we really wanted to build some space to say, like, well,
we want to talk to the people that we want
to talk to. And then it was kind of like
nerve wrecking, Well let's reach let's reach out to the
people that we want to talk to. And the fact
that so many of them said yes and they're like yeah,
of course, absolutely, Like that was tremendous. I think of
all of the listener questions and the text messages dms,
(13:44):
the screenshots that were sent to me about people listening
to the show, just like the continual push forward from
people to say like, hey love this, love that I'm
using it this way.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
We've had leaders from from organizations reach out and say, hey,
we've put together a collection of what we think are
the ten shows that resonate most with our workforce, and
we've turned this into like a training document.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Is that cool?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And we're like yeah, of course, like you know, like
whatever whatever you want to do, Like the whole point
of this is like, yeah, use it for whatever you can.
But like, I just think about all of those listeners, uh,
and people that helped to push us to continue to
like evolve what we talked about evolve, you know, the
way that we were doing our episodes, the you know,
(14:30):
the the guests interviews that pay it Forward Fridays, the
employee engagement Thursdays, the Thoughtful Thursdays. Like we did so
many things that I think we were driven by people
that listen to the show. And I think that's something
that's cool about the podcasting space when you have that
connection with an audience, is that you know you can
(14:53):
adjust and move and pivot to the places that they
want you to go to. And and I think that
that's been a fun part of the journey. It's just
continuing to like, you know, have people that have an
influence on how I'm thinking about leadership that I don't
even know, you know what I'm saying, not alone, like
don't work with every day, but like complete strangers and
thousands of them saying, hey, you should talk about this,
(15:15):
or we need to talk about that, and things that
maybe I hadn't even considered in my own leadership or
things that I hadn't come across yet that I now
had to have an opinion on and had to think through.
And I think that was super fun and helpful.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, it has made me better at leadership.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Right, there's just the interactions with our audience and the
the things that we've had to contemplate and think about
and and you know, it's we talked, we talk off
on the show about the importance of at of leading
with values, right about figuring out what is important to
(15:51):
you and then leading with that and allowing that to
guide your decision making process as a leader. And then
and then if you allow it to go your decision
making process as a leader, and the outcome isn't what
you what what it needed to be. Then Okay, then
does that mean that you didn't really use that as
a guide or does it mean that your your values
(16:11):
need to tweak or change a little.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Bit based on the the.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Time are you are?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
You?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Are they not well defined yet because of the experience
or lack thereof that you that you have in the workforce,
Like all these things happen over time, and and as you.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
The more you do it, the better a process it becomes.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And the the process of doing that through the lens
of the of the things that our listeners have asked
of us and kind of thinking, Okay, this hasn't happened
to me, but it's happening to one of our listeners
who's who's asking for advice on this? How how would
I deal with this? And And it's a lot harder
to do that hypothetically than it is if it's if
(16:48):
it's really happening, because you actually have to make the decision.
But it really has helped me test my values as
a leader by putting those situations through through the kind
of the mill of my personal values to see if
the outcome aligns with what is a appropriate for the
(17:09):
situation and b doesn't. But heads with my values right.
It kind of checks my values in the process to
see if they are still right, if they're still appropriate,
or if I need to tweak them. Because you if
you're never tweaking your values, it doesn't mean that you're steadfast.
It means that you are you know, unwilling to change
(17:32):
to changing times. Because your values should change over time.
They should just change thoughtfully and methodically and based on
like real true evidence, not you know, not whimsically, but
they but they should not remain the same, you know,
for forever. And these examples that we've gotten from our
our listeners has they've They've definitely caused me to to
(17:53):
to think through my values and what's important to me
and and make make tweaks or changes when appropriate. And
I think it's it's it's been very valuable to me too,
not just to our.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Listeners, absolutely, And with that it brings us to the
end of this chapter for hacking your leadership.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Before we go, I just you know, I know that
when we talked about doing this, Lorenzo, you said that
you really wanted to put some time and effort into
thinking through kind of like if you had one piece
of advice, like one nugget of advice for our listeners that,
(18:32):
you know, for somebody who is going into leadership or
new to leadership, or.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
If they're just struggling with leadership in general.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
You know, the thing that you'd want to have on
the wall in front of you every day that you
could look up at and and and read to yourself
and kind of like a rock or an anchor of
leadership advice to our listeners. You said you felt it
was really important to kind of have that kind of
like get to let our audience kind of take away
(19:02):
at the at the end of the last episode. And
I really like that idea, and you know, I know
you've already shared it with me, and I think it's fantastic.
I think you did a really great job of kind
of narrowing it down and thinking about something where the
rubber really meets the road that our our listeners can
(19:22):
take with them as they as they depart from the
show for a while. And so I'll let you take
it away and end the episode with this with this kernel.
But this is a really fantastic stuff here.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I mean, you know, we've had these one minute hacks
for the entire period, and I kind of felt that like,
this is really important to kind of like eight years,
you know, like over thousand episodes, how you slice it,
decades of leadership experience between the two of us, really
trying to boil this down to say, like what what
do you say and how do you help to guide
(19:56):
someone into their future? How do you help to take
someone who has been a leader for a long time
and give them something that may reshape the way they
think about leadership and can leave an impressed and very
like it kind of an impression of people that they
will take with them forever. People we always have those
quotes that we heard some people say that they just
(20:18):
stick with us and they help us, and those those
really tough times. And so you know what I would
say is like, you know, boiling it all down, all
that time, all that tenure, all that experience, all the
conversations that we've had, the tens of thousands of minutes
and hours of dialogue. For me, you know, leadership really
just comes down to this one very simple statement, and
(20:41):
that is
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