July 14, 2025 • 20 mins
If you're a leader, being optimistic is a prerequisite. But too many leaders lose credibility and authenticity when their optimism seems unrealistic. There's a way to remain optimistic in the face of problems without losing this credibility though.
Patreon Account: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=22174142
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hacking-your-leadership-podcast--4805674/support.
Patreon Account: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=22174142
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hacking-your-leadership-podcast--4805674/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo,
and Lorenzo on this episode, I want to talk about
optimism because.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's going to be a great conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
It's gonna be awesome, and I can't wait to discover
what we're going to discover in this dialogue.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yeah, don't, don't. Don't be so naive. You just think
everything is going to be okay when it clearly is not.
This is not going to be a very good conversation,
but I'm willing to try anyway. I was in a
meeting with a group of people and there was some
you know, things being discussed that didn't necessarily have obvious
(00:37):
solutions to the problem, Like they had to be worked
out still, and there wasn't any magic bullet that would
have solved everything. It was clearly going to be a
situation where they're going to be trade offs and and
prioritization and values we're gonna have to be taken into
account to make a decision, a hard decision on what
(00:58):
the right way or the wrong way to go was.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
As this team.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
And there was a person in the meeting who was
incredibly I wanted I wanted to say optimistic. But but
by the end of the meeting, I believed and and
I spoke with others afterward who also believed that they
were being unrealistic about the situation, and and the the
(01:25):
things this person would be saying were indicative of a
of a person who you know, the old saying when
when when a person drank the kool aid, you know,
of their whatever, whoever their company is, they're just this
constant cheerleader. And and I'm not saying that cheerleading isn't important.
I'm not saying that. You know, sometimes you you have
(01:46):
to take a leap of faith with your organization, uh
if if they have done right by you in the past.
There are times when when that might be necessary. But
but I think that the difference between a person who
does that and just being optimistic, they're not the same thing,
because I know people who have been optimistic in the past,
(02:09):
and it doesn't rise to the level of where I
wanted to roll my eyes and say, if you're feeling
this way right now, you clearly haven't considered everything. But
I didn't want to sound pessimistic. And yet I think
there's a way to do both. There's a way to
be realistic about a situation without making it seem like
you're just blindly following whatever your organization is doing. That
(02:31):
you're a thinking person and you can figure things out,
and that you can take things into account, that you're
that kind of person without losing the optimism that is
I think a necessity if you're going to be a
leader of people. And I want to talk about how
to kind of thread that needle, because I think it's
a fine line. I think some people do it really well,
(02:53):
and I think some people struggle with it.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, I agree, I think that there's I think a
big part of that really comes down to authenticity for me,
Like I think that we all know people that are
just overly joys. They have a they have a positive
energy to them. They are kind of happy to be alive,
They're happy to be there. They have this genuine feeling
(03:16):
of you know, things are good, things are great, Like
we can we can accomplish anything. It's great to see somebody,
it's good to see you, like it's good to be here.
Like they have this general sense of optimism that I
would even say many times it's kind of contagious. Like
they're just good people to be around. And I think
when you are that person and people understand that and
(03:37):
sense that, then it doesn't get old and it doesn't
feel like you're kind of faking it or that you're
you know, too far into to your point, like drinking
the kool aid or whatever. Like you that's just who
you are as a person. I think when people come
(03:58):
across as optimistic but you're you're not getting a sense
of like it being authentic or I see this a
lot with people that in you know, in the leadership game,
that are extremely well read, meaning that they read a
lot of books about leadership, a lot of them all
the time, and they're always quoting them and they're talking
(04:20):
about them that type of thing. But then you're as
you're even talking about it, you're just thinking, like, well,
have I seen you implement any of this, like besides
like that being an idea, besides that being a quote
that you got or a thing that said, like how
does it actually show up like every day for you?
And what are you doing besides just reading the book?
(04:43):
Like how are you implementing that into your leadership? So
I view this like optimism aspect in the same kind
of way where it's like either you are truly, you know,
an optimistic person. You're somebody who has this positive energy
and that's who you are all the time. And then
and you're excited about something at work or a strategy
or a process or something like, people are like, yeah,
(05:04):
that's cool, like you're really into this, versus somebody who
turns it on when they have to or or or
then you never get the sense of the realness of
who they are. It feels like it's just kind of
a facade. It feels like they don't want to share,
and they use that optimism to even push you away
a little bit, to not get too personal or get
(05:27):
too deep into who they are what they really think.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Right, right, if I if I bury them a head
in the sand, then the bad things can't get me, right, Like, yeah,
and you're right. And that that is when optimism rises
to the level of being unhealthy, because you know it,
it kind of belies a lack of cognition around what
(05:51):
the actual situation is. But there are also people who
seem to be able to be very realistic about the
situation is whatever it is, very realistic and kind of
uh able to articulate the problems. But yet they still
seem optimistic, even even in situations where they're going to
(06:15):
be massive trade offs needed and there isn't a solution
that really solves everything. There's gonna be some some fallout
or some some hard, hard decisions made, they still seem
to be optimistic. And and I I think the difference
with those people it's optimism isn't on that everything's going
(06:37):
to be great optimism. I believe it comes down to
whether a person feels like they are in control of
whatever they can be in control of, right, like that
they are prepared with the skills, the knowledge, the abilities,
that they're prepared with those things to be able to
(07:00):
best take on whatever is about to happen, and equally
as equally as much they are able to articulate the
things that are out of their control and let go
of them. And and and that allows them to have
that optimism that doesn't let go of the realism, right
Because if you're optimistic and and it comes off as
(07:23):
like you have a lack of realism around the situation,
that could come off as like I'm in control of
all of this, right, But but you and I both
know when it comes to you know, business decisions and
sometimes you know, hard business decisions that evolve trade offs.
You you know very well as well as I do,
that that not everything is in our control, That there
(07:43):
are things that are made, decisions that are made at
higher pay grades than we are at UH, and that
we just have to deal with the fallout of UH
and kind of navigate those those.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Things as they happen.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
But but if if I know, like on a very
on a very broad level, I'm working for a company
and it's going to go out of business, Okay, well
does that terrify me or not? I don't know. Do
I have a strong network and a good resume? You know,
have I am? I? Do I understand what my options are?
Do I know my own worth? If the answer is
yes to all that, then I can I'm more likely
(08:17):
to land well when the company goes out of business
if I don't. If I can't say all those things,
then the idea of my company going out of business
is terrifying. Right, And in order to be optimistic about it,
it doesn't mean that you think, oh, my company's not
going out of business. That's that's when the optimism turns
(08:39):
into the fantasy. It's when I don't need to make
my resume great and develop my network and make sure
that I have the right skills because my company is
just fine. That's when the optimism rises to the fantasy.
But optimism in the face of something difficult just means
do I can I convey to my people a sense
(09:02):
of calmness that comes from separating out the things I
can control from the things that I can't, and on
the things that I can control, have I taken the
necessary steps to make sure they are most likely to
end in my favor. I think that's really necessary if
you're a leader, to be able to do that, And
that's where you can kind of get people to come
(09:24):
along for the ride versus just like sitting there judging
you for not being realistic about the situation, or equally
as bad. If you come off as pessimistic about the situation,
then they might believe that you're not lying to them.
They might believe that you are, that your decisions are
rooted in reality. Oh, my company's going out of business.
(09:44):
I'm gonna be destitute. I don't know what I'm gonna do.
I have nothing.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
They might believe that what you're saying is true, but
good luck getting them to follow you if that's what
you're saying to them. Right, So, if you're hoping to
lead the team of people through a difficult time, then
going about it that way is equally detrimental to your
ability to lead them.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, No, I think it's right.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I think it's the more you're kind of talking through
that and I'm thinking about it, I actually think that
it's in.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It's in the.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Variety of how you connect with people and interact with
people as a leader, and like giving them and showing
them variety is actually what develops the element of authenticity
because like, you can be an optimistic person, you can
be very positive, you can see the world that way.
But if there's times when you're not like you, if
(10:34):
you don't show people when you're not a little bit,
or when you don't show people that maybe you have
a concern or like, while I'm optimistic that we'll get there,
I'm also frustrated on how we're being asked to do
this or what the hurdle is that's in front of us,
or whatever the case is, Like, if you don't give
people the variety aspect to say like, yeah, like I
am a positive person who sees and believes and are
(11:00):
ability to get this done. But I'm going to have
my moments, and you don't share those moments to a degree,
you don't have that ability to to adjust or to
to not just show one facet of who you are.
I think that's probably what I was thinking about, was
(11:21):
like those human to be human, yeah, exactly, to be
human exactly, yeah, because like those that I think struggle
with it. I'm thinking about in my head, like who
those people are I've met over time, and I go like, yeah,
they really only show you one facet, yeah, and maybe
a slightly second one.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
But like that, by only showing that, it makes.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
It really hard to believe that there's a wholeness or
you know, to you like there's a human element, like
there are there are days when you show up not
that way, and that's okay, and you should. But I
think that when when you don't allow people to see
you as a whole, then it kind of creates that
like questioning of like, well, is this really who you are?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Right right?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
There's there's there's We've talked about this in the past,
about this importance of authenticity, But but that doesn't mean
that you're not on stage too right, Like if a
leader is always on stage, and I think a lot
of people interpret that to mean that they have to
be this kind of like this rock, you know, like
everything's great all the time. They can't show the vulnerability
(12:22):
or the weakness. And no on stage means that the
stage that you're on, the part that you've auditioned for,
is a part where you're auditioning to be a real person,
not a fake person. So authenticity, authenticity combined with having
to be on stage all the time means that what
(12:43):
you're being judged at while on stage is your authenticity,
not your positivity. Right, It's both. And the leaders that
I know who just really do a great job of
all always being positive, always being optimistic, not not ever
kind of letting the other side of them out a
(13:07):
little bit, many of them end up, you know, kind
of torpedoing their own career because something gets to them. Eventually,
Something eventually hits and all of the stuff that was
being pushed down for months or years comes to the surface.
And I'm not saying they you know, they blow up
(13:28):
at somebody and and and start you know, going up
in a blaze of glory. I just mean something comes
out a little a little line or something they say
or something that kind of completely destroys the facade that
they've been trying to build up over a period of
months or years, and and and it and it kind
of creeps out, and that that kind of kills their
(13:50):
entire ability to lead their team because now they're being
seen as also also that oh, you're not only you're
not this positive person, but also everything that we came
to know about you is fake. And so the best
way to not ever have that happen is to not
try to keep it from happening, to just be yourself.
(14:10):
And if you just be yourself, that's great, as long
as who yourself is is an optimistic person. And if
you have a hard time doing that, you need to
kind of think about where that's rooted in, Like why
do you have a hard time being an optimistic person
in general? Why do you have a hard time separating
(14:31):
out the things you can control from the things you can't,
and then taking the steps to make sure that you
align your actions with the way that makes it most
likely to turn out in your favor. Not that you
believe with all your heart that it will turn out
in your favor, but that you believe that whatever the
outcome is, you won't look back on it and think
I could have done something differently, or I should have
(14:53):
been more prepared, or I should have done this differently
versus this. The idea is, when the chips have all fallen,
can you look back on it and think I did
everything that I could in order to make this turn
out the right way, and I conveyed that to my
people in a realistic way. And if the answer to
(15:13):
those things is both yes, then regardless of what happens,
you won't have degraded your ability to lead those people
and your ability to lead people in general.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, exactly. And with that it brings us to this
episode's womanute hack. But first off, your words from our sponsors, all.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Right for this episode is one minute hackers I want
you to do. When you're interacting with your people, the
key difference between coming off as optimistic or as living
in a fantasy land about what real life is or
what's what the actual things that are happening are are
whether or not you have the ability to validate the
(15:49):
concerns of the person you're talking to prior to moving forward.
And so when a person is comes off as that
drink the kool aid cheerleader kind of person. What happens
is someone areulates something that's a problem or an issue
that they're trying to deal with, and the response never
addresses that thing that they brought up. It never validates
that concern. It glosses over it from a standpoint of
(16:12):
just be positive. Oh, you'll be fine, we'll get through
it together, right, And that doesn't actually tell a person
that their concerns are valid. It actually tells the person
their concerns are not valid. You're saying to them, you're
wrong to be concerned about this, but I'm not backing
it up with anything. The right thing to do. If
you're a leader and you're trying to convey a sense
(16:33):
of optimism, it starts with validating the concern that the
other person has, because if they're really articulating it and
they really believe that to be true, there's a reason
why they're saying that, And so meeting them where they
are and kind of validating why they feel that concern
and then helping them get to a place where they
(16:53):
feel like they have more control over the situation will
make them be less likely to be pessimistic about it
and you'll be more likely to be seen as the
optimistic leader, not as the fantasy land cheerleader type of leader.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah. I think it's a great call out.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
I think that it's like there's been many times in
my career where I've rolled my eyes at that fantasy
land like raw rah, everything is always positive cheerleader and
like look, while there's an element of good energy that
you can get from that, I also think that if
you're truly talking about like being authentic and being someone
(17:30):
who wants to have a positive influence on others, you
can definitely show up in a place where your energy
is contagious and there's an element of fun. There's an
element of kind of like looseness and like willingness to
be you know, silly, or to to get people, you know,
to to level up their energy in a good and
(17:53):
positive way without being the everything is awesome, you know
uh style of leader.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And I think that for me is actually the truest.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Test to optimism is saying I'm optimistic because I know
we can do this. I'm optimistic because we can have
fun and work hard at the same time. I'm optimistic
because we have plenty of things to celebrate and I'm
optimistic because I know that when we apply ourselves to
whatever we're working on, we're going.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
To find success. And I don't have to be in
that rah rah rah, Let's go team. We can do
this if we all work hard. You know, like there's
a place for that.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
But I think that if you're really trying to show
up as yourself and show up in a positive way,
I think for me, that's the way to do it.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, I completely agree with that. And and what it
comes down to is if if if the people you're
talking to believe that you've heard their concerns prior to
showing your optimism, if they truly believe that you understand
where they're coming from, and you haven't just kind of
(19:02):
glossed over it because it's the elephant in the room
that you don't want to address. You're just kind of
ignoring what they've said because you want to move on
to the positivity that you are so good at doing.
That's when it will come off as inauthentic. But addressing
their concerns from a standpoint of that that if they're
articulating them, then they're real to them. They might be
(19:23):
real to you. You might not agree with them, but
the fact that they are bringing it up means that
it is real to them in that moment, and to
to ignore it or to not address it, and if
you don't agree with it, you can ask more questions. Hey,
let's let's dive more into that. Like you, you're you're
clearly concerned about this happening. Maybe I'm missing something? What
(19:43):
what are you thinking right now that maybe I'm missing
you know, like, be open to this idea that that
person is not just right about the about their beliefs,
but that you're wrong. And you might be wrong, but
chances are just operating that way will get them to
open up about what their concerns are and that will
tell you a lot more about what they need to
(20:04):
hear in the moment to be able to let go
of those concerns. Whereas if you just tell them, tell
them to let go of those concerns without addressing it
to begin with, or the reasons why they have them,
no one's going to do that. They're not going to
let go of their concerns. They're going to hold onto them,
and you won't be equipped to deal with them as
a leader because you never stopped to ask what they were,
or why the.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Person has them absolutely and with that it brings us
at the end of this episode, this is hack your leadership.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you
all next time.
Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo,
and Lorenzo on this episode, I want to talk about
optimism because.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's going to be a great conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
It's gonna be awesome, and I can't wait to discover
what we're going to discover in this dialogue.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yeah, don't, don't. Don't be so naive. You just think
everything is going to be okay when it clearly is not.
This is not going to be a very good conversation,
but I'm willing to try anyway. I was in a
meeting with a group of people and there was some
you know, things being discussed that didn't necessarily have obvious
(00:37):
solutions to the problem, Like they had to be worked
out still, and there wasn't any magic bullet that would
have solved everything. It was clearly going to be a
situation where they're going to be trade offs and and
prioritization and values we're gonna have to be taken into
account to make a decision, a hard decision on what
(00:58):
the right way or the wrong way to go was.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
As this team.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
And there was a person in the meeting who was
incredibly I wanted I wanted to say optimistic. But but
by the end of the meeting, I believed and and
I spoke with others afterward who also believed that they
were being unrealistic about the situation, and and the the
(01:25):
things this person would be saying were indicative of a
of a person who you know, the old saying when
when when a person drank the kool aid, you know,
of their whatever, whoever their company is, they're just this
constant cheerleader. And and I'm not saying that cheerleading isn't important.
I'm not saying that. You know, sometimes you you have
(01:46):
to take a leap of faith with your organization, uh
if if they have done right by you in the past.
There are times when when that might be necessary. But
but I think that the difference between a person who
does that and just being optimistic, they're not the same thing,
because I know people who have been optimistic in the past,
(02:09):
and it doesn't rise to the level of where I
wanted to roll my eyes and say, if you're feeling
this way right now, you clearly haven't considered everything. But
I didn't want to sound pessimistic. And yet I think
there's a way to do both. There's a way to
be realistic about a situation without making it seem like
you're just blindly following whatever your organization is doing. That
(02:31):
you're a thinking person and you can figure things out,
and that you can take things into account, that you're
that kind of person without losing the optimism that is
I think a necessity if you're going to be a
leader of people. And I want to talk about how
to kind of thread that needle, because I think it's
a fine line. I think some people do it really well,
(02:53):
and I think some people struggle with it.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, I agree, I think that there's I think a
big part of that really comes down to authenticity for me,
Like I think that we all know people that are
just overly joys. They have a they have a positive
energy to them. They are kind of happy to be alive,
They're happy to be there. They have this genuine feeling
(03:16):
of you know, things are good, things are great, Like
we can we can accomplish anything. It's great to see somebody,
it's good to see you, like it's good to be here.
Like they have this general sense of optimism that I
would even say many times it's kind of contagious. Like
they're just good people to be around. And I think
when you are that person and people understand that and
(03:37):
sense that, then it doesn't get old and it doesn't
feel like you're kind of faking it or that you're
you know, too far into to your point, like drinking
the kool aid or whatever. Like you that's just who
you are as a person. I think when people come
(03:58):
across as optimistic but you're you're not getting a sense
of like it being authentic or I see this a
lot with people that in you know, in the leadership game,
that are extremely well read, meaning that they read a
lot of books about leadership, a lot of them all
the time, and they're always quoting them and they're talking
(04:20):
about them that type of thing. But then you're as
you're even talking about it, you're just thinking, like, well,
have I seen you implement any of this, like besides
like that being an idea, besides that being a quote
that you got or a thing that said, like how
does it actually show up like every day for you?
And what are you doing besides just reading the book?
(04:43):
Like how are you implementing that into your leadership? So
I view this like optimism aspect in the same kind
of way where it's like either you are truly, you know,
an optimistic person. You're somebody who has this positive energy
and that's who you are all the time. And then
and you're excited about something at work or a strategy
or a process or something like, people are like, yeah,
(05:04):
that's cool, like you're really into this, versus somebody who
turns it on when they have to or or or
then you never get the sense of the realness of
who they are. It feels like it's just kind of
a facade. It feels like they don't want to share,
and they use that optimism to even push you away
a little bit, to not get too personal or get
(05:27):
too deep into who they are what they really think.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Right, right, if I if I bury them a head
in the sand, then the bad things can't get me, right, Like, yeah,
and you're right. And that that is when optimism rises
to the level of being unhealthy, because you know it,
it kind of belies a lack of cognition around what
(05:51):
the actual situation is. But there are also people who
seem to be able to be very realistic about the
situation is whatever it is, very realistic and kind of
uh able to articulate the problems. But yet they still
seem optimistic, even even in situations where they're going to
(06:15):
be massive trade offs needed and there isn't a solution
that really solves everything. There's gonna be some some fallout
or some some hard, hard decisions made, they still seem
to be optimistic. And and I I think the difference
with those people it's optimism isn't on that everything's going
(06:37):
to be great optimism. I believe it comes down to
whether a person feels like they are in control of
whatever they can be in control of, right, like that
they are prepared with the skills, the knowledge, the abilities,
that they're prepared with those things to be able to
(07:00):
best take on whatever is about to happen, and equally
as equally as much they are able to articulate the
things that are out of their control and let go
of them. And and and that allows them to have
that optimism that doesn't let go of the realism, right
Because if you're optimistic and and it comes off as
(07:23):
like you have a lack of realism around the situation,
that could come off as like I'm in control of
all of this, right, But but you and I both
know when it comes to you know, business decisions and
sometimes you know, hard business decisions that evolve trade offs.
You you know very well as well as I do,
that that not everything is in our control, That there
(07:43):
are things that are made, decisions that are made at
higher pay grades than we are at UH, and that
we just have to deal with the fallout of UH
and kind of navigate those those.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Things as they happen.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
But but if if I know, like on a very
on a very broad level, I'm working for a company
and it's going to go out of business, Okay, well
does that terrify me or not? I don't know. Do
I have a strong network and a good resume? You know,
have I am? I? Do I understand what my options are?
Do I know my own worth? If the answer is
yes to all that, then I can I'm more likely
(08:17):
to land well when the company goes out of business
if I don't. If I can't say all those things,
then the idea of my company going out of business
is terrifying. Right, And in order to be optimistic about it,
it doesn't mean that you think, oh, my company's not
going out of business. That's that's when the optimism turns
(08:39):
into the fantasy. It's when I don't need to make
my resume great and develop my network and make sure
that I have the right skills because my company is
just fine. That's when the optimism rises to the fantasy.
But optimism in the face of something difficult just means
do I can I convey to my people a sense
(09:02):
of calmness that comes from separating out the things I
can control from the things that I can't, and on
the things that I can control, have I taken the
necessary steps to make sure they are most likely to
end in my favor. I think that's really necessary if
you're a leader, to be able to do that, And
that's where you can kind of get people to come
(09:24):
along for the ride versus just like sitting there judging
you for not being realistic about the situation, or equally
as bad. If you come off as pessimistic about the situation,
then they might believe that you're not lying to them.
They might believe that you are, that your decisions are
rooted in reality. Oh, my company's going out of business.
(09:44):
I'm gonna be destitute. I don't know what I'm gonna do.
I have nothing.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
They might believe that what you're saying is true, but
good luck getting them to follow you if that's what
you're saying to them. Right, So, if you're hoping to
lead the team of people through a difficult time, then
going about it that way is equally detrimental to your
ability to lead them.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, No, I think it's right.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
I think it's the more you're kind of talking through
that and I'm thinking about it, I actually think that
it's in.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It's in the.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Variety of how you connect with people and interact with
people as a leader, and like giving them and showing
them variety is actually what develops the element of authenticity
because like, you can be an optimistic person, you can
be very positive, you can see the world that way.
But if there's times when you're not like you, if
(10:34):
you don't show people when you're not a little bit,
or when you don't show people that maybe you have
a concern or like, while I'm optimistic that we'll get there,
I'm also frustrated on how we're being asked to do
this or what the hurdle is that's in front of us,
or whatever the case is, Like, if you don't give
people the variety aspect to say like, yeah, like I
am a positive person who sees and believes and are
(11:00):
ability to get this done. But I'm going to have
my moments, and you don't share those moments to a degree,
you don't have that ability to to adjust or to
to not just show one facet of who you are.
I think that's probably what I was thinking about, was
(11:21):
like those human to be human, yeah, exactly, to be
human exactly, yeah, because like those that I think struggle
with it. I'm thinking about in my head, like who
those people are I've met over time, and I go like, yeah,
they really only show you one facet, yeah, and maybe
a slightly second one.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
But like that, by only showing that, it makes.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
It really hard to believe that there's a wholeness or
you know, to you like there's a human element, like
there are there are days when you show up not
that way, and that's okay, and you should. But I
think that when when you don't allow people to see
you as a whole, then it kind of creates that
like questioning of like, well, is this really who you are?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Right right?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
There's there's there's We've talked about this in the past,
about this importance of authenticity, But but that doesn't mean
that you're not on stage too right, Like if a
leader is always on stage, and I think a lot
of people interpret that to mean that they have to
be this kind of like this rock, you know, like
everything's great all the time. They can't show the vulnerability
(12:22):
or the weakness. And no on stage means that the
stage that you're on, the part that you've auditioned for,
is a part where you're auditioning to be a real person,
not a fake person. So authenticity, authenticity combined with having
to be on stage all the time means that what
(12:43):
you're being judged at while on stage is your authenticity,
not your positivity. Right, It's both. And the leaders that
I know who just really do a great job of
all always being positive, always being optimistic, not not ever
kind of letting the other side of them out a
(13:07):
little bit, many of them end up, you know, kind
of torpedoing their own career because something gets to them. Eventually,
Something eventually hits and all of the stuff that was
being pushed down for months or years comes to the surface.
And I'm not saying they you know, they blow up
(13:28):
at somebody and and and start you know, going up
in a blaze of glory. I just mean something comes
out a little a little line or something they say
or something that kind of completely destroys the facade that
they've been trying to build up over a period of
months or years, and and and it and it kind
of creeps out, and that that kind of kills their
(13:50):
entire ability to lead their team because now they're being
seen as also also that oh, you're not only you're
not this positive person, but also everything that we came
to know about you is fake. And so the best
way to not ever have that happen is to not
try to keep it from happening, to just be yourself.
(14:10):
And if you just be yourself, that's great, as long
as who yourself is is an optimistic person. And if
you have a hard time doing that, you need to
kind of think about where that's rooted in, Like why
do you have a hard time being an optimistic person
in general? Why do you have a hard time separating
(14:31):
out the things you can control from the things you can't,
and then taking the steps to make sure that you
align your actions with the way that makes it most
likely to turn out in your favor. Not that you
believe with all your heart that it will turn out
in your favor, but that you believe that whatever the
outcome is, you won't look back on it and think
I could have done something differently, or I should have
(14:53):
been more prepared, or I should have done this differently
versus this. The idea is, when the chips have all fallen,
can you look back on it and think I did
everything that I could in order to make this turn
out the right way, and I conveyed that to my
people in a realistic way. And if the answer to
(15:13):
those things is both yes, then regardless of what happens,
you won't have degraded your ability to lead those people
and your ability to lead people in general.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, exactly. And with that it brings us to this
episode's womanute hack. But first off, your words from our sponsors, all.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Right for this episode is one minute hackers I want
you to do. When you're interacting with your people, the
key difference between coming off as optimistic or as living
in a fantasy land about what real life is or
what's what the actual things that are happening are are
whether or not you have the ability to validate the
(15:49):
concerns of the person you're talking to prior to moving forward.
And so when a person is comes off as that
drink the kool aid cheerleader kind of person. What happens
is someone areulates something that's a problem or an issue
that they're trying to deal with, and the response never
addresses that thing that they brought up. It never validates
that concern. It glosses over it from a standpoint of
(16:12):
just be positive. Oh, you'll be fine, we'll get through
it together, right, And that doesn't actually tell a person
that their concerns are valid. It actually tells the person
their concerns are not valid. You're saying to them, you're
wrong to be concerned about this, but I'm not backing
it up with anything. The right thing to do. If
you're a leader and you're trying to convey a sense
(16:33):
of optimism, it starts with validating the concern that the
other person has, because if they're really articulating it and
they really believe that to be true, there's a reason
why they're saying that, And so meeting them where they
are and kind of validating why they feel that concern
and then helping them get to a place where they
(16:53):
feel like they have more control over the situation will
make them be less likely to be pessimistic about it
and you'll be more likely to be seen as the
optimistic leader, not as the fantasy land cheerleader type of leader.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah. I think it's a great call out.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
I think that it's like there's been many times in
my career where I've rolled my eyes at that fantasy
land like raw rah, everything is always positive cheerleader and
like look, while there's an element of good energy that
you can get from that, I also think that if
you're truly talking about like being authentic and being someone
(17:30):
who wants to have a positive influence on others, you
can definitely show up in a place where your energy
is contagious and there's an element of fun. There's an
element of kind of like looseness and like willingness to
be you know, silly, or to to get people, you know,
to to level up their energy in a good and
(17:53):
positive way without being the everything is awesome, you know
uh style of leader.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And I think that for me is actually the truest.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Test to optimism is saying I'm optimistic because I know
we can do this. I'm optimistic because we can have
fun and work hard at the same time. I'm optimistic
because we have plenty of things to celebrate and I'm
optimistic because I know that when we apply ourselves to
whatever we're working on, we're going.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
To find success. And I don't have to be in
that rah rah rah, Let's go team. We can do
this if we all work hard. You know, like there's
a place for that.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
But I think that if you're really trying to show
up as yourself and show up in a positive way,
I think for me, that's the way to do it.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, I completely agree with that. And and what it
comes down to is if if if the people you're
talking to believe that you've heard their concerns prior to
showing your optimism, if they truly believe that you understand
where they're coming from, and you haven't just kind of
(19:02):
glossed over it because it's the elephant in the room
that you don't want to address. You're just kind of
ignoring what they've said because you want to move on
to the positivity that you are so good at doing.
That's when it will come off as inauthentic. But addressing
their concerns from a standpoint of that that if they're
articulating them, then they're real to them. They might be
(19:23):
real to you. You might not agree with them, but
the fact that they are bringing it up means that
it is real to them in that moment, and to
to ignore it or to not address it, and if
you don't agree with it, you can ask more questions. Hey,
let's let's dive more into that. Like you, you're you're
clearly concerned about this happening. Maybe I'm missing something? What
(19:43):
what are you thinking right now that maybe I'm missing
you know, like, be open to this idea that that
person is not just right about the about their beliefs,
but that you're wrong. And you might be wrong, but
chances are just operating that way will get them to
open up about what their concerns are and that will
tell you a lot more about what they need to
(20:04):
hear in the moment to be able to let go
of those concerns. Whereas if you just tell them, tell
them to let go of those concerns without addressing it
to begin with, or the reasons why they have them,
no one's going to do that. They're not going to
let go of their concerns. They're going to hold onto them,
and you won't be equipped to deal with them as
a leader because you never stopped to ask what they were,
or why the.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Person has them absolutely and with that it brings us
at the end of this episode, this is hack your leadership.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you
all next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!