October 31, 2025 • 31 mins
From Hollywood to Florida and New York to Oregon, this year’s Halloween season proved that the industry is evolving—just not abandoning its roots. Sliders continue to grow as choreographed street theater, chainsaws remain the undeniable American haunt anthem, and creative teams nationwide are finding new ways to give guests something active to do between scares. From selfie moments and staged photo ops to queue-line performers and mini-interactions, the focus is shifting from watching horror to participating in it. Philip and Scott break down what these trends say about guest expectations, why smaller haunts are thriving by leaning into intimacy and story, and how even major parks are rethinking Halloween as a festival of constant engagement rather than a night of passive walkthroughs. Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, from our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This
is Green Tag Team Park and thirty. I'm Philip. I'm
joined as always by my co host Scott Swinson of
Scott Swinson creat Development on Green Tad. We normally look
at all of the news each week and explain white
matters to business professionals.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
But this week is Halloween.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
That's that typical, typical Halloween sound. You know.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Wow, that reminded me of my childhood for a second
with the little hangs in the way and so oh,
look at that.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Scott has props. I didn't.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Scott always has props when it comes to Halloween.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I so today, obviously we're going to talk about Halloween.
We're just talking about trends, We're talking about divisive topics,
We're talking about all of the elements of Halloween. Scott
and I are both deeply in the halloween world. Scott
used to run Bush Gardens, Tampa's Hollis Cream for many
years and then now he has written for haunts all
(00:59):
over the world, and I have covered.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Haunts all over the world over the world.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
In addition to working at several places I worked in media,
I also work at a few larger clients, and of
course I used to have a screen park a long
time ago, and so we both have a lot of
opinions and thoughts about the haunt space, from operations to
marketing to creative and so as much as we try
(01:25):
and move on, I think every time, you know, you
still we still go to thing. And of course this
year I went to many many haunts.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
To mix with you, this.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Is actually Halloween light season for me. I went to
fewer haunts this year than I think I've gone to
in the last thirty years. But it's interesting because some
of them were haunts that I was working on some
of them or Halloween festivals that I was working on.
Some of them more haunts that I did work on
in the past, and some of them were some of
(01:55):
the trends that we're seeing and we're going to discuss
in the show are things that I've seen, and we
did a little shit chat before the before we started recording,
and we've discovered that some of these might just be regional.
I don't know, we'll see so when we get to that, well,
we'll start to talk about it. But you know, I
think a lot of the stuff we've covered, but I
think it's important to cover it again because this is
(02:16):
our Halloween special. So there you go. Yeah, where do
you want to start, Philip? You want to start with
Horror Unleased? You want to start in Vegas?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Okay, Horrorunleashed was the first to open for the Hall
of I'm going to say it's following season. Even though
Horror Leashed is year round, of course, it's universal is
new year round horror experience there in Las Vegas. I
just started jumping into it without explaining it, and then
I realized that the biggest thing I've heard about Horror
Leashed is how many how few people.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Are aware of it.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So I was like, we maybe we should explain that
it's a universal is year round experiment in Las Vegas
next to Area fifteen. And that media day was on
August tenth, so that was when my season started. And
they've been, you know, going since then and period. Oh
(03:08):
you have not been, Scott. I don't know if you
watched any videos.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yes, I've watched some of the videos, and I've talked
to some people who've been other than just Philip. And
the response that I'm hearing it's interesting because I like
to hear what other people have to say, because I
think I'm either jaded or looking for the wrong things
sometimes when I go to Halloween events, so I like
to hear what other people have to say. And I
(03:31):
haven't talked to anybody who has been overtly negative. But
I also haven't talked to anybody who has been oh
my gosh, this is the best thing since sliced bread.
So and again, I think we kind of said it
when we covered it on the show earlier. Is it's
not targeted to a hot audience, is what I'm is
kind of what I'm reading between the lines. It's targeted
(03:53):
to a Vegas audience, which makes sense, which are people
who enjoy haunted attractions but are not quite as uh
are their expectations are different than those people who work
in the hont industry. And I also think that you
know something that you had mentioned, Philip, was that, uh,
some of the the installations or pieces are are installed
(04:17):
so that they can be.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Changed yep, which they've already announced they're going to put
a Crampis experience there in the midway.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, so that makes that makes total sense for a
year round permanent installation, you know, you need to be
as modular as possible to change that stuff out.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, I agree with all that.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I think I think we're already going to veer off,
veer off topic, or not off topic, but off into
a separate I think something I think people, especially us
in the trashional industry. I think if you've done a
lot of haunts, you have a lot of haunt experience.
I think what a lot of people forget is that
(04:56):
it's kind of like the minimum biable product. It's like
you have to what really matters is what is good
for your guest, what entertains your guest, and what entertains
your guest in your.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Market that you're in. Okay, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So that and that's that's the hard thing, because you know,
as you do more haunts and experience more things and
you see all this stuff, then you you have, I guess,
a more refined palette, as I would say it, you know,
as as somebody who's gone around done a bunch of stuff.
But you always have to think about it's not for you,
you know, it's for the people that you're trying to
(05:30):
get in to go to your market.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And so.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think that I.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Think a lot of people like a lot of just haunters,
but a lot of rabid theme park fans also forget that,
like it's it's not so all that being said, I
think Horror Unleashed is not for people in California that
are used to Halloween horn nites. It is for people
in Vegas who are there visiting casinos and are gonna
go to Area fifteen, get in the uber somehow, go
(05:58):
over there for uh, do multiple things like go to
Air fifteen to see me a wolf and do or
a concert or whatever. They're gonna do a few things.
They're gonna throw this in there, and it's meant to
be part of that type of experience, Like it's not
meant to be something that people adjust their plans to
go to. Like no one's gonna go to Vecus just
for that. I mean haunters maybe, but that's.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
The thing may people have. But but again those are
the ones who give it the least, the least positive review.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
That's exactly right, Like that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Like if if your entire thing is you're gonna spend
all the money in time just to go to horn Leech,
it's not gonna be worth it. And I but again
I think that's I'm sure they knew that, like because
because when I always describe it, I say, it's basically
it's just a watered down version of Halloween horn Nits,
(06:48):
which is interesting on its face just because you know,
you would think or common sense would would make you
think that that you could or you know that they
would be better because they have a building they built
from scratch, like from spec But it's more like they.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I mean, it's just it's just it's a less it's
not as good as Halloween whatever. Whatever the reason is
it the is it the excitement, you know, is it
the crowd or what is it the missing the theme park,
whatever the reasons, it's it's not just not as good
as well.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
It's it's also under one roof. I think that has
a lot to do with it. I think that you
know the fact that Hornites, whether it's California or Florida,
is more spread out. It's there's more anticipation built between things,
there's more of a crowd energy. I think that is
(07:46):
is different because it's seasonal, so everybody's like, oh, we
got to go do it now because it's going to
go away, and well, now what seventy seventy two days,
it'll go away. I mean something ridiculous like that. There's
a there's a fuse to it, there's an energy to
it that I don't think you're ever going to get
into year round hunt. But but I'm curious and hopeful
(08:08):
that it will at least be sustainable so that these
kinds of things in various formats can can pop up
in different places.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, I mean again for me, I'm just I'm again.
I was, like I said, happy that it exists, Like,
you know, am I going to go to Vegas for it?
Speaker 3 (08:26):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Am I happy it exists? Yes?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
What I go for crampus, I'm not even sure, only
if there's other things in the area, because again, they're
just adding stuff to the midway, right, So we'll do
it if you're in Vegas.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
But that's right, special trip for it. And I think
exactly the target audience.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
That's the target audience exactly, that that's what it's built for.
So I think that that kind of strain. So switching
topics now, just briefly. So I drove up to Medford
organ to interview a gentleman there who listens to the
show a lot for a year head listeners in the
beginning and has tried to take everything I think that
(09:04):
Scott has written in his books and try and take
everything to heart and has made a five year plan.
You know, where he started with there's one Haunt billion,
then he's expanded it into a thirty thousand square foot
building with three attractions and a midway and there's story,
and I mean, it's it's done well. But even when
I just did a interview with him, and even in
(09:26):
the interview, he's talking about that concept of like, you know,
basically he was like, he made this Invasion inspired Haunt
where it's about alien abductions, and he made one that
is about like Indiana Jones but horror movie, you know,
like inspire and so great. And then he was like,
(09:47):
and then we had to do clowns because everybody kept
asking if we had done clowns or where the clowns
were and all that. He's like, and we just we
just had to do it because and he mentions this
about the local market and what they expect and how
it was all his dream to buy a big orgle
or prop but the market wouldn't care, like that money
would be you know, better spent on other elements that
(10:08):
the market would be more interested in than it would
be this thing, even though he wanted it, and he
because he knows all the haunts, but that's not the
market doesn't know that because they're in Medford, organ which
is kind of in the middle of nowhere, Like it's
not it's four hours from Portland, right, and it's it's
thirty minutes from the California border, but it's way way north,
so it's you know, it's unlikely you're going to get
(10:29):
you're going to pull people from San Francisco or Portland,
so you're pulling people that are not that don't have
any major attractions in their space of just what what
they expect is different. So but it was it's really
funny to hear that, because it's like as much even
as you if you know right that you that the haunt,
or that you know that that clowns are cliche or this,
(10:51):
or that there is a part of it where in
less mature markets, that's what the people expect. They expect
cliche things because that's what they're used to.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
And I think it's I think it's essential to know,
you know what the market will bear years and years
ago for for Valley Fair, I was hired to write
a haunt that it was interesting because they said, here,
this was my challenge. They said, we want something that
(11:22):
ties directly to the the Minnesotan audience. But these are
the people, these are not the people who can who
can handle too esoteric a concept, so so don't go
too far. So I wrote, I wrote a haunt called Berserkers,
which was based on a Viking myth. So you know
(11:46):
Minnesota Vikings team. So it was based on a Viking
myth and it was in essence a werewolf story, but
it was when we originally wrote it, and I never
actually saw it produced, so I don't know how how
much they tried. They tried to keep as much of
it as possible from what I understand, but it was
sort of the were wolf versus the wear bear. And
(12:09):
so it was basically about these these Viking warriors that
would consume this strange potion that would transform them into
half human and half animal. And and I asked them,
I said, is this too esoteric? And they said, no,
they get were wolves, they'll understand where wolves, they'll understand
where bears. And had it been in a different market
with a different a different audience, I might have gone
(12:31):
a little bit you know, creepier and well creepier for me,
and and dove into the folklore just a little bit
more and instead of just drinking something. It was a
ritual you'd have to go through. But the idea of
let's get to the let's get something we understand, yeah,
was imperative and essential for that for that market. So yeah,
(12:52):
it's really important to kind of know what your market
will bear. And I'm a firm believer that you kind
of write to what the market will bear and then
each year push it just a little bit, so you
train your market, you train your market to get better
and better. I mean, like here I went to I
went to Hallow Scream at bush Guards last night and
the event, well, I'm going to say the event is back.
(13:14):
This is the second golden Age of hallow Scream and
I'm really I worked on that event for the first
fifteen years and both from a creative standpoint and a
production standpoint and operation standpoint. And although it is a
slightly smaller event, I got to walk around with one
(13:35):
of my former employees who is now the man in charge,
and so many of the people from the olden days
have now moved up and our in powers are in
positions of power and positions of managerial capacity. And Chris
and I were talking as we walked around in it,
it's interesting. It was very interesting for me to go
back because he was able to do so many of
(13:58):
the things that I wanted to do, just because we
kept saying over and over throughout the course of the night,
it's a different world, you know. The parks are different,
especially bush Gardens is different. They've taken a lot more
in house, which I would have loved to have done
but was not allowed to back in the day. They've
they've basically taken so many of the of my of
(14:21):
the old Hant actors that I used to work with
are now creative trainers. They have creative trainers for they
like five, four or five creative trainers for the event,
and that way the stage managers are solely operational for
each of the haunts. But my my favorite comment of
the night because we said it, Chris and I both
said it at the same time. He said, we really
wanted to do we really wanted to do six houses,
(14:43):
but we only have five. And then simultaneously we both said,
better to do five really well than six with one
that's mediocre or all six that become mediocre. And I
will say that the five haunts that they have are stellar,
and they did not get rid of clowns completely. There
is a clown scare zone because again to your point,
(15:03):
clowns are a staple. There is a chainsaw scare zone.
There is. But the haunts are very clever, very well done,
very well done, and in true Bush Gardens form. And
this is the thing that excites me the most because
it takes me back to the early days. The focus.
Although the scenic is excellent and beautiful, the focus is
(15:25):
still on the actors. It's still on the performers, making
it more terrifying than than anything an animation can do.
So it's it's and and they're packed. They're they're really
you know, they've designed them well so that each actor
has at least two, if not three scare positions and
(15:45):
that they can basically scare the same guests three times.
Really well designed, you know, Chris Lasnik, Brad Tucker, I'm
gonna miss people. But it's the whole Busch Gardens team
that has just really ramped up their game. They're in
the event is in really good shape in my opinion.
(16:08):
But one of the things that I found interesting, and
I wanted to ask you about this in regards because
I'm kind of slipping into our our tropes and trends here.
One of the things that they did is in order
to maintain maintain their budget, but also make certain that
they have critical mass as far as content goes. Uh.
They did fewer scare zones or smaller scare zones, but
(16:32):
they peppered photo ops throughout the park. So and their
there standalone photo ops. I think only two of them
have photographers, but the rest of them are all you know,
take them on your own camera. They pulled out props
that were not being used from their from their storage
facility and deck them up, lit them well, just to help,
(16:56):
you know, to help people create content and to help
people post more about the event. And I didn't walk
by a single one through the entire night that didn't
have somebody taking a photo. Yeah, is that happening in
other places? Is that kind of photo op mentality happening
in other locations, Philip that you've seen, because you see
a lot more of these than I do.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think that well.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Photo ops I think are always a great idea because again,
you're encouraging people to make a memory at your event
and kind of allowed them to do it in their
own way. It's hard to say if they are expanding
or not, just because I feel like every experience does
have photo ops. I think maybe they're getting more complex
(17:39):
as the haunters are like catching up with the theme
park way of doing things. I think that they are
getting more complex.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
But the only.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I know a few examples, like in a fear factory
in Salt Lake City, they have a dedicated area just
for photo ops and they read them one of their
photo ops to be an homage to the fire that
was there on the building. So that's that's like a
They renovate those regularly. And then there is a in
(18:12):
the Baltimore, Maryland area. There's Harrah's Nightmare, who received the
OSCAR for best first year Haunt last year. This is
his second year. In his second year, he said similar thing.
It's not he's he started in year one with three hants,
so it took him years to build it. But he
started a year one in three haunts. So he said
in year two he's not going to expand them because
(18:32):
they're big enough, and he's not going to add another
haunt because three is enough.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
So what he's gonna What.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
He did instead is make an eighteen room selfy experience
for what there's all just photo ops with some actors
and so he's hoping to have that open after Halloween
and just change out the sets. But during the Halloween
season it does have actors that will roam and take
pictures with you, and that those kind of elements.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
It's interesting because two years ago Terror Roulette, which took
the the Oscare for was that two years two years
I think, I think so two or three years, which
took the the Oscare for Outstanding New Haunt. Uh, they've
kind of done that throughout and I think it was
because of labor and staffing, but they kind of shifted
(19:17):
to doing making it more of a we'll call it
a selfie museum, a spooky selfie museum. Content creators haven,
you know, to come in and take photos. And like
I said, I think it had to do with with
maintaining labor costs, but I don't know that for sure
because I'm not I wasn't involved this past year. So
(19:38):
it's it's it's interesting to see that that that that's
part of the mentality now because we didn't you know,
we used to try to convince people not to take photographs.
We'd try to know, it goes back to the old
I don't know this was true at Universal in California,
but at Universal Florida, if you were in a scare zone,
the actors were trained to block the camera. They were
trained to to come up and put their hand in
(19:59):
front of the camera or scare in front of the
camera so that you wouldn't get all of the entire
experience online. But now that's shifted completely.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Encouraging that finding ways to encourage that, so thinking, I
you know, certainly for a marketing purpose, but it's also
I think it's guest experience. I think they want to
be able to say, look at the cool shot I
got at Halloween, Hornites or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, I think it, you know, in a weird way.
It's an easy way to make it more interactive, in
a way where they have you know, that they can
take photos and they can work. But I think again
it just goes back to the entertainment value. And I
think it just is what is entertainment has changed a
little bit, But I do think that ultimately, I think
that people still enjoy interacting with the characters, and I
(20:51):
think scare zones and those whole thing have have become.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Part of that.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Like like Q Line, actors have become much more important
in that they you know, interact with guests but also
help make content for it. And so it's a little
bit of double edged sword, you know. I heard recently,
I actually heard recently that Universal has stopped allowing their
characters to talk because presumably because somebody one of them
said something they shouldn't have said on a camera when
somebody was recording, you know. But so again it is
(21:19):
double kind of that double edged sword type of thing.
But that does seem to be again, I think that's
a big part of the entertainment nowadays, is you interacting
with the individual performers and that fun stuff. And I'm
trying to think at Hush there's a photo experience, but
it's actually, if anything, I would say it's a little
behind the times because.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I think like at Hush they do a photo that is.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
You know, taken by a camera operator and then you
can pay five dollars to get a digital version or
ten dollars to get a print version, and that's really
outdated like that, that's not like nobody wants to pay
for a photo anymore. And it doesn't matter because most
of the one that like, the difference in quality is
not very is not is not enough. Basically, I think
it is the problem now that you have people with
(22:07):
great cameras and cell phone that do good and low
light and unless it's going to be an experience, it's
just it's not.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I think.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah, I think that's definitely behind the times. And then
they don't have any photo ops and the the Q
line actors don't encourage photos or videos. So it's really
the one thing they do do is you know, they
have the stage there in the queue line, and people
always record the stage because people are you know, fire
dancers and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Sure. Sure, it's interesting that you say that though, because
printed photos at at Zoo Tampa at Creatures of the Night,
which again is a more family friendly experience, but they
do as you go into their the one well we'll
call it the three Pumpkin Haunt. The one haunt that
(22:52):
is is a little bit spookier and we'll get some
screams and startles, uh, they do a green screen photo
as you go in, and the green screen is the
green screen backgrounds are all things that the guests need
to interact or react to. So those little bit you know,
screaming this way and screaming that way and as you leave.
But those sell because they don't offer a digital only option.
(23:14):
They offer a print option and then for if you
buy a print for an upsell, you can get all
of the rest of the photos they took digitally, which
is a super smart idea really, but they do. But
those do sell well, and maybe that's because of it's
it's a different audience. It's a family audience.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
And I know that again it's back to something you
can't make on your own. We've talked about this before,
but like it's just like the Magic I forgot what
their whole at Disney, but it's the same concept at Disney,
where you take the pictures in the area and then
they add in characters or things to it because.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
You're holding tinker Bell in your hands.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah yeah, again, Yeah, and people like those. There's plenty
people that like those. But we didn't talk about sliders,
and I think we wanted to talk about slide.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
I was gonna say, let's I was, let's let's move
into our trends and tropes section. We'll finish off the
show with that. So sliders at Busch Gardens, sliders are
back and the pendulum since I left. Every single year
that I was at Bush, I had to fight to
keep sliders because there's a perception, and I use that
term very specifically, there is a perception that they have
(24:21):
safety issues. But a well trained slider is no more
dangerous than a well trained person with a chainsaw or
a well trained person with any prop. Stilt walkers, Yeah,
but they did something very interesting with them. Instead of
keeping them all together, they kind of peppered them throughout
the park. So it's not a slider zone, but sliders
(24:43):
are part of multiple zones or multiple areas throughout the park,
so they're much more of a surprise when they pop up.
And of course sliders do things in different ways. There
are some that, you know, back back when we did sliders,
when I was there, we did upright sliders as opposed
to all four sliders, you know, sliding on all fours.
(25:03):
But they they're some of those. There's some of the upright,
the old school upright sliders on their knees, every spark
gimmick you could possibly imagine. And they're back, and they're
you know, there's obviously safety is still an issue, and
there's still the desire or the need to convince the
powers that be that it's a safe way to scare people.
But I think they're I think they're trending. Again. Have
(25:26):
you seen that or is.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
That just yeah, I don't think that that's a that
that's not a single year thing. I would say they've
been trending for the past and maybe since the pandemic.
I mean, they they've been they've been on the upswing
for for a while. And I don't I don't know again,
I yeah, like I don't have a problem with it personally.
(25:50):
I actually I like sliders personally, Like I like, I
think that it's it can be fun. I especially like,
you know, when they do have the friction and the
ability to spark and that kind of a thing. I
think it's again, it's it's it reminds me of just
like the circus where they used to have all the circus,
like the Vampire Circus and all those things, where it's
(26:11):
just really like a cirk show or a regular thing,
but they just they put makeup on. I think it's
that similar idea where it's really just a form of
physical stunt, but then you're putting it into the Halloween
category because what other holiday is it really going to
fit under? And that's so so many times that happens
with Halloween where you're like, it's in both.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Of the books. It's in both of my books. Halloween
is a testing ground for all kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, and so I think that that's where you get
the sliders that fall in there and then making it.
I do think it's a perfect thing because it does
scare people, it startles them. But you know what, again,
this goes back to think I I make slider videos
a lot, and because they have become such a staple
of the big events like Hershey Park has the Decayed
Brigade that they contract with to come out and do
(27:00):
a nightly performance, and that thing is absolutely packed, Like
people will line up and this is Hershey Park, And
just keep in mind, folks, people will line up hours
before at Hershey Park, which is it's it's lunacy and
I've been there covering it and the aside from the
time they're doing the show. All they're doing the rest
of the time is taking pictures with people because people
(27:21):
want pictures, you know, and they barely get any sliding in.
But it is it is a very divisive topic because
of what you talk about, the safety, and because a
lot of the Haunt connoisseur people say it has something
to do with Halloween and this and that and blah
blah blah. And I always go back to, like, the
main point of the experience is to entertain people, and
if this is what people find entertaining nowadays, if they
want to watch these basically skateboarders, you know, you know,
(27:46):
slide around on the ground and make sparks in makeup
that they put on themselves in many cases, fine, like
who you know again, who cares back?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
This goes back to, you know, the different ways that
sliders have been have been handled too. Bush Tampa, for example,
has never done a slider show. They've never done a
slider show. They've never sliders. Have done stunts and tricks,
but they've never done a slider show. They've always been
characters who use sliding as a scare tactic. Yeah, I
have that, I do too, I do too. And that's
(28:15):
why I was very adamant about it, and I was
really glad to see that when I went back this year.
That was their approach when they brought them back, is
to make them a party of their becoming thing.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Though.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's really it's really impactful. Okay,
So let's let's move on to another controversial topic. Chainsaws,
Yes or no?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Well, I think it's this. It's it's similar, right because
I don't know, everyone just loves chainsaws. Again, what are
you gonna do?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Like, what do you do?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It's I think again it goes back to how mature
your market is. If you're in a very mature market
with a lot of competition, I think you could cut
the chainsaw. But if you're not, then you need it
because that's what people are going to expect. That's Halloween
in their brains, right in America, at least in America,
is to have that component. And again it's similar to
(29:05):
the slider, where like there are people that just love
to be scared by chainsaws. I don't know, but it's
in Asia. It's not a thing. You know, in Asia,
it's not at all a thing, and people look at
you weird. They're like, why would a chainsaw be scary?
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Well, it's interesting because with me, a chainsaw is fine
as long as it makes sense within the concept. A
clown with a chainsaw makes no sense to me. A
cannibal with a chainsaw makes sense to me. So, you know.
But one of the things, again going back to what
Bush did, and I.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Think a clown with a chainsaw, which is a scare
zone at Universal every year.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, I know, I know, been there, done that, you know.
But but I will say one of the things that
Bush did really well is they did they did one
one scare zone that is relatively short. It is the
scenic is basically a bunch of pine trees, So it's
(29:57):
like you're going through a pine forest and you have
these crazed, wicked, evil lumberjack characters it and the entire
the entire area. It's in a it's in an arbor,
so the entire area just echoes with the sound of chainsaws,
so you know they're there. It builds a nice sense
of anticipation, and then when they finally come out to
do the scare, it releases that sense of anticipation, which
(30:19):
is exactly what you want to do with scares. There
are some. You know, I agree with you. It's impossible
to find a replacement. Believe me. I've tried for many,
many years. And you know, there's there's leaf blowers, but
there's nothing threatening about a leaf blower.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
A lot of things, you know, but yeah, they're not
as threatening in America at least, I think.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So is there any other
trend or trope? We're almost out of time? Is there
any other trend or trope that you wanted to throw
out there before we finish off our little Halloween special here,
because we're gonna have to. We've got so many things
we still want to talk about, so we're gonna have
to carry it on into the Patreon show. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Let let's us go to our Patreon show and we're
gonna we'll keep talking. Came there about Halloween and trends
because yeah, I made we made a whole like list
or I made a list and then we just yeah,
Philip made.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
A list and and we you know, got about it
at all. But you may put four points on it,
which was very nice. Yeah, four whole points. But anyway,
so guys, happy Halloween. I hope the Halloween season is
treating you, well, I hope you've had a great time.
I hope you've had a chance to get out and
visit some some haunts and uh so, because I know
we have, and so I hope you learn stuff too,
(31:29):
because that's the most important reason to go see other
people's haunts, is to see what's working and what's not
and how you can adapt it for your audience. So
that's probably the biggest takeaway from this particular show. So
on behalf of Philip Ernandez and myself Scott Swinson. This
is Green Tag Theme Park in thirty We will see
you next week and happy Halloween.
Okay, from our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This
is Green Tag Team Park and thirty. I'm Philip. I'm
joined as always by my co host Scott Swinson of
Scott Swinson creat Development on Green Tad. We normally look
at all of the news each week and explain white
matters to business professionals.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
But this week is Halloween.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
That's that typical, typical Halloween sound. You know.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Wow, that reminded me of my childhood for a second
with the little hangs in the way and so oh,
look at that.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Scott has props. I didn't.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Scott always has props when it comes to Halloween.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I so today, obviously we're going to talk about Halloween.
We're just talking about trends, We're talking about divisive topics,
We're talking about all of the elements of Halloween. Scott
and I are both deeply in the halloween world. Scott
used to run Bush Gardens, Tampa's Hollis Cream for many
years and then now he has written for haunts all
(00:59):
over the world, and I have covered.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Haunts all over the world over the world.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
In addition to working at several places I worked in media,
I also work at a few larger clients, and of
course I used to have a screen park a long
time ago, and so we both have a lot of
opinions and thoughts about the haunt space, from operations to
marketing to creative and so as much as we try
(01:25):
and move on, I think every time, you know, you
still we still go to thing. And of course this
year I went to many many haunts.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
To mix with you, this.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Is actually Halloween light season for me. I went to
fewer haunts this year than I think I've gone to
in the last thirty years. But it's interesting because some
of them were haunts that I was working on some
of them or Halloween festivals that I was working on.
Some of them more haunts that I did work on
in the past, and some of them were some of
(01:55):
the trends that we're seeing and we're going to discuss
in the show are things that I've seen, and we
did a little shit chat before the before we started recording,
and we've discovered that some of these might just be regional.
I don't know, we'll see so when we get to that, well,
we'll start to talk about it. But you know, I
think a lot of the stuff we've covered, but I
think it's important to cover it again because this is
(02:16):
our Halloween special. So there you go. Yeah, where do
you want to start, Philip? You want to start with
Horror Unleased? You want to start in Vegas?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Okay, Horrorunleashed was the first to open for the Hall
of I'm going to say it's following season. Even though
Horror Leashed is year round, of course, it's universal is
new year round horror experience there in Las Vegas. I
just started jumping into it without explaining it, and then
I realized that the biggest thing I've heard about Horror
Leashed is how many how few people.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Are aware of it.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So I was like, we maybe we should explain that
it's a universal is year round experiment in Las Vegas
next to Area fifteen. And that media day was on
August tenth, so that was when my season started. And
they've been, you know, going since then and period. Oh
(03:08):
you have not been, Scott. I don't know if you
watched any videos.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yes, I've watched some of the videos, and I've talked
to some people who've been other than just Philip. And
the response that I'm hearing it's interesting because I like
to hear what other people have to say, because I
think I'm either jaded or looking for the wrong things
sometimes when I go to Halloween events, so I like
to hear what other people have to say. And I
(03:31):
haven't talked to anybody who has been overtly negative. But
I also haven't talked to anybody who has been oh
my gosh, this is the best thing since sliced bread.
So and again, I think we kind of said it
when we covered it on the show earlier. Is it's
not targeted to a hot audience, is what I'm is
kind of what I'm reading between the lines. It's targeted
(03:53):
to a Vegas audience, which makes sense, which are people
who enjoy haunted attractions but are not quite as uh
are their expectations are different than those people who work
in the hont industry. And I also think that you
know something that you had mentioned, Philip, was that, uh,
some of the the installations or pieces are are installed
(04:17):
so that they can be.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Changed yep, which they've already announced they're going to put
a Crampis experience there in the midway.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, so that makes that makes total sense for a
year round permanent installation, you know, you need to be
as modular as possible to change that stuff out.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, I agree with all that.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I think I think we're already going to veer off,
veer off topic, or not off topic, but off into
a separate I think something I think people, especially us
in the trashional industry. I think if you've done a
lot of haunts, you have a lot of haunt experience.
I think what a lot of people forget is that
(04:56):
it's kind of like the minimum biable product. It's like
you have to what really matters is what is good
for your guest, what entertains your guest, and what entertains
your guest in your.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Market that you're in. Okay, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So that and that's that's the hard thing, because you know,
as you do more haunts and experience more things and
you see all this stuff, then you you have, I guess,
a more refined palette, as I would say it, you know,
as as somebody who's gone around done a bunch of stuff.
But you always have to think about it's not for you,
you know, it's for the people that you're trying to
(05:30):
get in to go to your market.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And so.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think that I.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Think a lot of people like a lot of just haunters,
but a lot of rabid theme park fans also forget that,
like it's it's not so all that being said, I
think Horror Unleashed is not for people in California that
are used to Halloween horn nites. It is for people
in Vegas who are there visiting casinos and are gonna
go to Area fifteen, get in the uber somehow, go
(05:58):
over there for uh, do multiple things like go to
Air fifteen to see me a wolf and do or
a concert or whatever. They're gonna do a few things.
They're gonna throw this in there, and it's meant to
be part of that type of experience, Like it's not
meant to be something that people adjust their plans to
go to. Like no one's gonna go to Vecus just
for that. I mean haunters maybe, but that's.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
The thing may people have. But but again those are
the ones who give it the least, the least positive review.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
That's exactly right, Like that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Like if if your entire thing is you're gonna spend
all the money in time just to go to horn Leech,
it's not gonna be worth it. And I but again
I think that's I'm sure they knew that, like because
because when I always describe it, I say, it's basically
it's just a watered down version of Halloween horn Nits,
(06:48):
which is interesting on its face just because you know,
you would think or common sense would would make you
think that that you could or you know that they
would be better because they have a building they built
from scratch, like from spec But it's more like they.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I mean, it's just it's just it's a less it's
not as good as Halloween whatever. Whatever the reason is
it the is it the excitement, you know, is it
the crowd or what is it the missing the theme park,
whatever the reasons, it's it's not just not as good
as well.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
It's it's also under one roof. I think that has
a lot to do with it. I think that you
know the fact that Hornites, whether it's California or Florida,
is more spread out. It's there's more anticipation built between things,
there's more of a crowd energy. I think that is
(07:46):
is different because it's seasonal, so everybody's like, oh, we
got to go do it now because it's going to
go away, and well, now what seventy seventy two days,
it'll go away. I mean something ridiculous like that. There's
a there's a fuse to it, there's an energy to
it that I don't think you're ever going to get
into year round hunt. But but I'm curious and hopeful
(08:08):
that it will at least be sustainable so that these
kinds of things in various formats can can pop up
in different places.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, I mean again for me, I'm just I'm again.
I was, like I said, happy that it exists, Like,
you know, am I going to go to Vegas for it?
Speaker 3 (08:26):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Am I happy it exists? Yes?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
What I go for crampus, I'm not even sure, only
if there's other things in the area, because again, they're
just adding stuff to the midway, right, So we'll do
it if you're in Vegas.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
But that's right, special trip for it. And I think
exactly the target audience.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
That's the target audience exactly, that that's what it's built for.
So I think that that kind of strain. So switching
topics now, just briefly. So I drove up to Medford
organ to interview a gentleman there who listens to the
show a lot for a year head listeners in the
beginning and has tried to take everything I think that
(09:04):
Scott has written in his books and try and take
everything to heart and has made a five year plan.
You know, where he started with there's one Haunt billion,
then he's expanded it into a thirty thousand square foot
building with three attractions and a midway and there's story,
and I mean, it's it's done well. But even when
I just did a interview with him, and even in
(09:26):
the interview, he's talking about that concept of like, you know,
basically he was like, he made this Invasion inspired Haunt
where it's about alien abductions, and he made one that
is about like Indiana Jones but horror movie, you know,
like inspire and so great. And then he was like,
(09:47):
and then we had to do clowns because everybody kept
asking if we had done clowns or where the clowns
were and all that. He's like, and we just we
just had to do it because and he mentions this
about the local market and what they expect and how
it was all his dream to buy a big orgle
or prop but the market wouldn't care, like that money
would be you know, better spent on other elements that
(10:08):
the market would be more interested in than it would
be this thing, even though he wanted it, and he
because he knows all the haunts, but that's not the
market doesn't know that because they're in Medford, organ which
is kind of in the middle of nowhere, Like it's
not it's four hours from Portland, right, and it's it's
thirty minutes from the California border, but it's way way north,
so it's you know, it's unlikely you're going to get
(10:29):
you're going to pull people from San Francisco or Portland,
so you're pulling people that are not that don't have
any major attractions in their space of just what what
they expect is different. So but it was it's really
funny to hear that, because it's like as much even
as you if you know right that you that the haunt,
or that you know that that clowns are cliche or this,
(10:51):
or that there is a part of it where in
less mature markets, that's what the people expect. They expect
cliche things because that's what they're used to.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
And I think it's I think it's essential to know,
you know what the market will bear years and years
ago for for Valley Fair, I was hired to write
a haunt that it was interesting because they said, here,
this was my challenge. They said, we want something that
(11:22):
ties directly to the the Minnesotan audience. But these are
the people, these are not the people who can who
can handle too esoteric a concept, so so don't go
too far. So I wrote, I wrote a haunt called Berserkers,
which was based on a Viking myth. So you know
(11:46):
Minnesota Vikings team. So it was based on a Viking
myth and it was in essence a werewolf story, but
it was when we originally wrote it, and I never
actually saw it produced, so I don't know how how
much they tried. They tried to keep as much of
it as possible from what I understand, but it was
sort of the were wolf versus the wear bear. And
(12:09):
so it was basically about these these Viking warriors that
would consume this strange potion that would transform them into
half human and half animal. And and I asked them,
I said, is this too esoteric? And they said, no,
they get were wolves, they'll understand where wolves, they'll understand
where bears. And had it been in a different market
with a different a different audience, I might have gone
(12:31):
a little bit you know, creepier and well creepier for me,
and and dove into the folklore just a little bit
more and instead of just drinking something. It was a
ritual you'd have to go through. But the idea of
let's get to the let's get something we understand, yeah,
was imperative and essential for that for that market. So yeah,
(12:52):
it's really important to kind of know what your market
will bear. And I'm a firm believer that you kind
of write to what the market will bear and then
each year push it just a little bit, so you
train your market, you train your market to get better
and better. I mean, like here I went to I
went to Hallow Scream at bush Guards last night and
the event, well, I'm going to say the event is back.
(13:14):
This is the second golden Age of hallow Scream and
I'm really I worked on that event for the first
fifteen years and both from a creative standpoint and a
production standpoint and operation standpoint. And although it is a
slightly smaller event, I got to walk around with one
(13:35):
of my former employees who is now the man in charge,
and so many of the people from the olden days
have now moved up and our in powers are in
positions of power and positions of managerial capacity. And Chris
and I were talking as we walked around in it,
it's interesting. It was very interesting for me to go
back because he was able to do so many of
(13:58):
the things that I wanted to do, just because we
kept saying over and over throughout the course of the night,
it's a different world, you know. The parks are different,
especially bush Gardens is different. They've taken a lot more
in house, which I would have loved to have done
but was not allowed to back in the day. They've
they've basically taken so many of the of my of
(14:21):
the old Hant actors that I used to work with
are now creative trainers. They have creative trainers for they
like five, four or five creative trainers for the event,
and that way the stage managers are solely operational for
each of the haunts. But my my favorite comment of
the night because we said it, Chris and I both
said it at the same time. He said, we really
wanted to do we really wanted to do six houses,
(14:43):
but we only have five. And then simultaneously we both said,
better to do five really well than six with one
that's mediocre or all six that become mediocre. And I
will say that the five haunts that they have are stellar,
and they did not get rid of clowns completely. There
is a clown scare zone because again to your point,
(15:03):
clowns are a staple. There is a chainsaw scare zone.
There is. But the haunts are very clever, very well done,
very well done, and in true Bush Gardens form. And
this is the thing that excites me the most because
it takes me back to the early days. The focus.
Although the scenic is excellent and beautiful, the focus is
(15:25):
still on the actors. It's still on the performers, making
it more terrifying than than anything an animation can do.
So it's it's and and they're packed. They're they're really
you know, they've designed them well so that each actor
has at least two, if not three scare positions and
(15:45):
that they can basically scare the same guests three times.
Really well designed, you know, Chris Lasnik, Brad Tucker, I'm
gonna miss people. But it's the whole Busch Gardens team
that has just really ramped up their game. They're in
the event is in really good shape in my opinion.
(16:08):
But one of the things that I found interesting, and
I wanted to ask you about this in regards because
I'm kind of slipping into our our tropes and trends here.
One of the things that they did is in order
to maintain maintain their budget, but also make certain that
they have critical mass as far as content goes. Uh.
They did fewer scare zones or smaller scare zones, but
(16:32):
they peppered photo ops throughout the park. So and their
there standalone photo ops. I think only two of them
have photographers, but the rest of them are all you know,
take them on your own camera. They pulled out props
that were not being used from their from their storage
facility and deck them up, lit them well, just to help,
(16:56):
you know, to help people create content and to help
people post more about the event. And I didn't walk
by a single one through the entire night that didn't
have somebody taking a photo. Yeah, is that happening in
other places? Is that kind of photo op mentality happening
in other locations, Philip that you've seen, because you see
a lot more of these than I do.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think that well.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Photo ops I think are always a great idea because again,
you're encouraging people to make a memory at your event
and kind of allowed them to do it in their
own way. It's hard to say if they are expanding
or not, just because I feel like every experience does
have photo ops. I think maybe they're getting more complex
(17:39):
as the haunters are like catching up with the theme
park way of doing things. I think that they are
getting more complex.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
But the only.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I know a few examples, like in a fear factory
in Salt Lake City, they have a dedicated area just
for photo ops and they read them one of their
photo ops to be an homage to the fire that
was there on the building. So that's that's like a
They renovate those regularly. And then there is a in
(18:12):
the Baltimore, Maryland area. There's Harrah's Nightmare, who received the
OSCAR for best first year Haunt last year. This is
his second year. In his second year, he said similar thing.
It's not he's he started in year one with three hants,
so it took him years to build it. But he
started a year one in three haunts. So he said
in year two he's not going to expand them because
(18:32):
they're big enough, and he's not going to add another
haunt because three is enough.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
So what he's gonna What.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
He did instead is make an eighteen room selfy experience
for what there's all just photo ops with some actors
and so he's hoping to have that open after Halloween
and just change out the sets. But during the Halloween
season it does have actors that will roam and take
pictures with you, and that those kind of elements.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
It's interesting because two years ago Terror Roulette, which took
the the Oscare for was that two years two years
I think, I think so two or three years, which
took the the Oscare for Outstanding New Haunt. Uh, they've
kind of done that throughout and I think it was
because of labor and staffing, but they kind of shifted
(19:17):
to doing making it more of a we'll call it
a selfie museum, a spooky selfie museum. Content creators haven,
you know, to come in and take photos. And like
I said, I think it had to do with with
maintaining labor costs, but I don't know that for sure
because I'm not I wasn't involved this past year. So
(19:38):
it's it's it's interesting to see that that that that's
part of the mentality now because we didn't you know,
we used to try to convince people not to take photographs.
We'd try to know, it goes back to the old
I don't know this was true at Universal in California,
but at Universal Florida, if you were in a scare zone,
the actors were trained to block the camera. They were
trained to to come up and put their hand in
(19:59):
front of the camera or scare in front of the
camera so that you wouldn't get all of the entire
experience online. But now that's shifted completely.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Encouraging that finding ways to encourage that, so thinking, I
you know, certainly for a marketing purpose, but it's also
I think it's guest experience. I think they want to
be able to say, look at the cool shot I
got at Halloween, Hornites or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, I think it, you know, in a weird way.
It's an easy way to make it more interactive, in
a way where they have you know, that they can
take photos and they can work. But I think again
it just goes back to the entertainment value. And I
think it just is what is entertainment has changed a
little bit, But I do think that ultimately, I think
that people still enjoy interacting with the characters, and I
(20:51):
think scare zones and those whole thing have have become.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Part of that.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Like like Q Line, actors have become much more important
in that they you know, interact with guests but also
help make content for it. And so it's a little
bit of double edged sword, you know. I heard recently,
I actually heard recently that Universal has stopped allowing their
characters to talk because presumably because somebody one of them
said something they shouldn't have said on a camera when
somebody was recording, you know. But so again it is
(21:19):
double kind of that double edged sword type of thing.
But that does seem to be again, I think that's
a big part of the entertainment nowadays, is you interacting
with the individual performers and that fun stuff. And I'm
trying to think at Hush there's a photo experience, but
it's actually, if anything, I would say it's a little
behind the times because.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I think like at Hush they do a photo that is.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
You know, taken by a camera operator and then you
can pay five dollars to get a digital version or
ten dollars to get a print version, and that's really
outdated like that, that's not like nobody wants to pay
for a photo anymore. And it doesn't matter because most
of the one that like, the difference in quality is
not very is not is not enough. Basically, I think
it is the problem now that you have people with
(22:07):
great cameras and cell phone that do good and low
light and unless it's going to be an experience, it's
just it's not.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I think.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah, I think that's definitely behind the times. And then
they don't have any photo ops and the the Q
line actors don't encourage photos or videos. So it's really
the one thing they do do is you know, they
have the stage there in the queue line, and people
always record the stage because people are you know, fire
dancers and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Sure. Sure, it's interesting that you say that though, because
printed photos at at Zoo Tampa at Creatures of the Night,
which again is a more family friendly experience, but they
do as you go into their the one well we'll
call it the three Pumpkin Haunt. The one haunt that
(22:52):
is is a little bit spookier and we'll get some
screams and startles, uh, they do a green screen photo
as you go in, and the green screen is the
green screen backgrounds are all things that the guests need
to interact or react to. So those little bit you know,
screaming this way and screaming that way and as you leave.
But those sell because they don't offer a digital only option.
(23:14):
They offer a print option and then for if you
buy a print for an upsell, you can get all
of the rest of the photos they took digitally, which
is a super smart idea really, but they do. But
those do sell well, and maybe that's because of it's
it's a different audience. It's a family audience.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
And I know that again it's back to something you
can't make on your own. We've talked about this before,
but like it's just like the Magic I forgot what
their whole at Disney, but it's the same concept at Disney,
where you take the pictures in the area and then
they add in characters or things to it because.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
You're holding tinker Bell in your hands.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah yeah, again, Yeah, and people like those. There's plenty
people that like those. But we didn't talk about sliders,
and I think we wanted to talk about slide.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
I was gonna say, let's I was, let's let's move
into our trends and tropes section. We'll finish off the
show with that. So sliders at Busch Gardens, sliders are
back and the pendulum since I left. Every single year
that I was at Bush, I had to fight to
keep sliders because there's a perception, and I use that
term very specifically, there is a perception that they have
(24:21):
safety issues. But a well trained slider is no more
dangerous than a well trained person with a chainsaw or
a well trained person with any prop. Stilt walkers, Yeah,
but they did something very interesting with them. Instead of
keeping them all together, they kind of peppered them throughout
the park. So it's not a slider zone, but sliders
(24:43):
are part of multiple zones or multiple areas throughout the park,
so they're much more of a surprise when they pop up.
And of course sliders do things in different ways. There
are some that, you know, back back when we did sliders,
when I was there, we did upright sliders as opposed
to all four sliders, you know, sliding on all fours.
(25:03):
But they they're some of those. There's some of the upright,
the old school upright sliders on their knees, every spark
gimmick you could possibly imagine. And they're back, and they're
you know, there's obviously safety is still an issue, and
there's still the desire or the need to convince the
powers that be that it's a safe way to scare people.
But I think they're I think they're trending. Again. Have
(25:26):
you seen that or is.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
That just yeah, I don't think that that's a that
that's not a single year thing. I would say they've
been trending for the past and maybe since the pandemic.
I mean, they they've been they've been on the upswing
for for a while. And I don't I don't know again,
I yeah, like I don't have a problem with it personally.
(25:50):
I actually I like sliders personally, Like I like, I
think that it's it can be fun. I especially like,
you know, when they do have the friction and the
ability to spark and that kind of a thing. I
think it's again, it's it's it reminds me of just
like the circus where they used to have all the circus,
like the Vampire Circus and all those things, where it's
(26:11):
just really like a cirk show or a regular thing,
but they just they put makeup on. I think it's
that similar idea where it's really just a form of
physical stunt, but then you're putting it into the Halloween
category because what other holiday is it really going to
fit under? And that's so so many times that happens
with Halloween where you're like, it's in both.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Of the books. It's in both of my books. Halloween
is a testing ground for all kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, and so I think that that's where you get
the sliders that fall in there and then making it.
I do think it's a perfect thing because it does
scare people, it startles them. But you know what, again,
this goes back to think I I make slider videos
a lot, and because they have become such a staple
of the big events like Hershey Park has the Decayed
Brigade that they contract with to come out and do
(27:00):
a nightly performance, and that thing is absolutely packed, Like
people will line up and this is Hershey Park, And
just keep in mind, folks, people will line up hours
before at Hershey Park, which is it's it's lunacy and
I've been there covering it and the aside from the
time they're doing the show. All they're doing the rest
of the time is taking pictures with people because people
(27:21):
want pictures, you know, and they barely get any sliding in.
But it is it is a very divisive topic because
of what you talk about, the safety, and because a
lot of the Haunt connoisseur people say it has something
to do with Halloween and this and that and blah
blah blah. And I always go back to, like, the
main point of the experience is to entertain people, and
if this is what people find entertaining nowadays, if they
want to watch these basically skateboarders, you know, you know,
(27:46):
slide around on the ground and make sparks in makeup
that they put on themselves in many cases, fine, like
who you know again, who cares back?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
This goes back to, you know, the different ways that
sliders have been have been handled too. Bush Tampa, for example,
has never done a slider show. They've never done a
slider show. They've never sliders. Have done stunts and tricks,
but they've never done a slider show. They've always been
characters who use sliding as a scare tactic. Yeah, I
have that, I do too, I do too. And that's
(28:15):
why I was very adamant about it, and I was
really glad to see that when I went back this year.
That was their approach when they brought them back, is
to make them a party of their becoming thing.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Though.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's really it's really impactful. Okay,
So let's let's move on to another controversial topic. Chainsaws,
Yes or no?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Well, I think it's this. It's it's similar, right because
I don't know, everyone just loves chainsaws. Again, what are
you gonna do?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Like, what do you do?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It's I think again it goes back to how mature
your market is. If you're in a very mature market
with a lot of competition, I think you could cut
the chainsaw. But if you're not, then you need it
because that's what people are going to expect. That's Halloween
in their brains, right in America, at least in America,
is to have that component. And again it's similar to
(29:05):
the slider, where like there are people that just love
to be scared by chainsaws. I don't know, but it's
in Asia. It's not a thing. You know, in Asia,
it's not at all a thing, and people look at
you weird. They're like, why would a chainsaw be scary?
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Well, it's interesting because with me, a chainsaw is fine
as long as it makes sense within the concept. A
clown with a chainsaw makes no sense to me. A
cannibal with a chainsaw makes sense to me. So, you know.
But one of the things, again going back to what
Bush did, and I.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Think a clown with a chainsaw, which is a scare
zone at Universal every year.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, I know, I know, been there, done that, you know.
But but I will say one of the things that
Bush did really well is they did they did one
one scare zone that is relatively short. It is the
scenic is basically a bunch of pine trees, So it's
(29:57):
like you're going through a pine forest and you have
these crazed, wicked, evil lumberjack characters it and the entire
the entire area. It's in a it's in an arbor,
so the entire area just echoes with the sound of chainsaws,
so you know they're there. It builds a nice sense
of anticipation, and then when they finally come out to
do the scare, it releases that sense of anticipation, which
(30:19):
is exactly what you want to do with scares. There
are some. You know, I agree with you. It's impossible
to find a replacement. Believe me. I've tried for many,
many years. And you know, there's there's leaf blowers, but
there's nothing threatening about a leaf blower.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
A lot of things, you know, but yeah, they're not
as threatening in America at least, I think.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So is there any other
trend or trope? We're almost out of time? Is there
any other trend or trope that you wanted to throw
out there before we finish off our little Halloween special here,
because we're gonna have to. We've got so many things
we still want to talk about, so we're gonna have
to carry it on into the Patreon show. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Let let's us go to our Patreon show and we're
gonna we'll keep talking. Came there about Halloween and trends
because yeah, I made we made a whole like list
or I made a list and then we just yeah,
Philip made.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
A list and and we you know, got about it
at all. But you may put four points on it,
which was very nice. Yeah, four whole points. But anyway,
so guys, happy Halloween. I hope the Halloween season is
treating you, well, I hope you've had a great time.
I hope you've had a chance to get out and
visit some some haunts and uh so, because I know
we have, and so I hope you learn stuff too,
(31:29):
because that's the most important reason to go see other
people's haunts, is to see what's working and what's not
and how you can adapt it for your audience. So
that's probably the biggest takeaway from this particular show. So
on behalf of Philip Ernandez and myself Scott Swinson. This
is Green Tag Theme Park in thirty We will see
you next week and happy Halloween.
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