Theme Park Trends That Can Transform Your Haunt

Recently, I joined Tyler Barnett on the Fearworm Wormhole show to discuss how major theme park innovations could transform haunted attractions, and this is the full recording. We unpack Universal’s new Fan Fest Nights, Horror Unleashed, Dark Universe, and the rise of off-season activations like music festivals and “summer slasher” events. You’ll hear how IP partnerships, luxury-tier VIP add-ons, and even tariff pressures on materials can reshape your pricing and value proposition this fall—plus tactics for leveraging local brands when Hollywood licenses feel out of reach. Fearworm streams Wormhole episodes live every other Friday on Facebook. I wrote an article based on this as well, available here.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
These theme park trends could impact your haunt that's coming
up on today's show. Welcome to the show. I'm Philip
on the HN Show. We bring you the news and
insights you need to prepare for Halloween. This podcast is
just one part of what we do. Our free weekly
email newsletter rounds up every story, video, and podcasts in

(00:37):
one place. You'll find the sign up link on our
website and in.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
The show notes.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Today you'll hear the full audio from my recent guest
appearance on the fearworm Wormhole Show. With Tyler Barnett, operations
director and partner at Fearworm, we unpack Universal's new FanFest nights,
It's gamble with Dark Universe and the rise of off
season activations like music festivals and summer slasher events. You'll

(01:02):
hear how IP partnerships, luxury tier VIP add ons, and
even tariff pressures on materials can reshape your pricing and
value proposition this fall, Plus tactics for leveraging local brands
when Hollywood licenses feel out of reach. The Fearworm Wormhole
streams live every other Friday on Facebook. The link to
the Facebook page is in the show notes as well.

(01:24):
If you'd like to join the next session. Okay, let's
dive in.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Happy Friday, everybody. And it's a weird one because we
have back to back wormholes. We have one last week
and now we're here today. How are you? I have
a special episode for you today. Joining me on this
wonderful conversation about theme parks and how it impacts haunted
houses is none other then Philip Hernandez from the HANT Network. Philip,

(01:50):
how the hell are you on this Friday?

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I'm here, I'm alive, a little barely recovered from East Coast,
but I made it.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
I understand. I have this. We had a haunted house
commercial shoot, I guess a week and a half ago, two
weeks ago. I got sick after it, and I feel
like I have just this lingering cough. So apologies in
advance if I had a cough up on this wormhole
and it's just it's I feel fine, it's is there's
this cough and it won't go away. Yeah, but uh no,

(02:20):
uh So on today's wormhole, let's talk about Philip and
is why you're here. I wanted to pick your brain
about the amusement park theme park business. Some trends that
we are seeing in that industry and how that may
impact the haunted house industry.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
All right, I'm ready.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
It's a it's a heavy topic. So much so I
guess Philip, let's let me ask you this right now.
What are what are things you're noticing that just top
line could be impacting haunts that you're seeing already impacting
the amusement park business.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
So before we get into like too many of the
trends stuff, i'd I'm going to start off because I
was just working on stuff for fanfast Nights, so it's
like literally like on the top of my brain.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
I was like literally like.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Editing it last I was editing the real version last night,
which is like taking our like twenty five minute overview
and trying to make it into like two and a
half minutes. Somehow I had to like re record the
intro or the voiceover because I was like, this is
voiceover is not going to cut it. So I actually
think that this is one of those things that has
like so much potential for haunts, and I'm surprised that

(03:38):
nobody really is talking about it in that way. I
think you get all the like normal like bloggers have
done their videos, but I'm like, look, guys, like Halloween
Hornites is the most successful Halloween event in the world,
like by far, and I think that for you remember
that used to be a shoulder season. You know that
Halloween season used to be should like when by you
back in the day that us be Shulders season. And

(04:01):
it's true that Universal didn't start it, but Universal has
helped us because they have made the awareness of a
haunt event. It's like Universal is like the gateway drug
for a lot, right. You know, they do marketing all
globally and they market this Halloween haunt attraction thing and
it gets people more aware of it, which helps all

(04:22):
of us. So they've helped us grow in the market share.
But they've also turned that shoulder season into a big
profit maker. And basically they're like the other big time
shoulder season is like right now, we're in it.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Right now. It's right after the spring break.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Before the season, so you've got this like month of
dead window. And they're like, what if we can do
Halloween horn Nites again, another Halloween Hornites And I think
that could be enormous because it also could open up
It's like they're doing the hard work already of trying
to take like a horror brand and being like, hey,

(04:58):
we also can do this, and if they can do that,
I think it could really that's like half the battle
for the Haunts, as you know, is the brand idea
of like how does a brand, horror brand, you know,
do non Halloween stuff. It's harder in America because we're
so focused on you know, we want to silo Halloween
for the Haunt season, but horror is your round, so

(05:19):
they're trying, and then they're like, also, fandoms are year round,
so it's like I think that is like the potential
there is.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Huge because I think it could open It could.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Give Haunts the coverage and to to really open up
to first spring events and do spring things and I want.
And there's two examples actually that are like so we
just posted as article on this one that I just
posted on the website that actually sent me. But there's
Fright Nights in West Virginia is doing a final cut
summer slaughter event.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
And it's kind of like it's it's I think it's
like it's very similar.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
To Fanfas Nights, where like the guests like walk through
scenes and they have to like they're challenge to like
trying to make it out of a slasher, but it's
it's very much like you have a role, you play
a role, you.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Had to take photos, you have to do slash your stuff.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Like it's really fun that way, which I think is
a great idea. And then you know Field of Screams
is doing a music festival, right and then all that yeah, yeah,
then they're opening the haunts and also doing the music festival, right,
And I'm like that is a great idea. Like it's
because they already have the asset there, had the band there.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
I mean like, yeah, if you have the property, you know.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
I know. So the past couple of years, for those
who don't know there, there has been a music festival
like an ed M festival at Fear Factory in Salt
Lake City.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
They have the venue, They've got the big building, tower
area to set up stage, all the craziness. So I
think you're right. I think you're right on with this
of how can we look to this event that's a
universal is doing. How can we interpret that for hours
and get people? And sometimes it is doing more than

(06:54):
just your haunt, you know. I think Field of Screams
has a great idea with the music festival and all that,
but they're also kind of a side opening haunts and
you know, part of that I think also stems from
there's a heavy metal festival that travels around called not Fest. Yeah,
part of not Fest, like the back game where the
vendors are, is a haunted house. It's a traveling hant house.

(07:15):
That's part of the experience.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, so it it's together.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
There's precedent, you know, like what you're saying, there's precedent
and it fits together.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
And I think that's like that again, it's it's show.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
I think the assets you talked about, like like Salt
Lake City, I know they do a great event there
and they have a huge area there where they can
hold a lot of people. And the asset is also
the same thing Universal is doing, because the main part
of Fanfast Nights is the back of the future Destination
Hill Valley experience.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
And I did write like a thing.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Like an article with like charts where I was like,
was it a good idea to do dungeons and dragons
and star Trek instead of doing anime? And I would
argue it was not a good idea, But that's a
different show. And there's large parts. But basically I was like,
I feel like somebody on this team did not do
their like basic research and here's all the reasons why

(08:11):
it would have made more sense and way more money
to do it the other way. But anyway, Back to
the Future was the main thing, and that is taking
an asset that they have and just reusing because they have.
You know, you're taking on the trams over to the
back lot where you're on the scene from the movie
the Courthouse Square, and they've turned it basically into Sleep

(08:32):
No More meets Back to the Future.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
So it's a forty.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Five minute looping experience and you get to follow the
characters and interact with them. But they already had the asset.
They didn't rebuild the square or the clock tower, right.
They did add items and they did help, you know,
make it, but it's not like they built that whole thing.
And that's what you're saying that Fear Factory is doing
as well, because you have the stage already, you know

(08:56):
Field the Screams doing this, you have the thing already.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
It's how do you figured this out to.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Bring people into it and monetize it in a different
way that's not just about your haunted house.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Yeah, no, I think that's a great point and the
kind of you know, this a question popped in my
head for you, and I've thought about this. I've been
thinking about this for a long time. Some haunts. I
know there are some experiences that are already do this,
But part of that draw to fan Fest or to
the music festivals is that unfortunately, I guess I'm trying

(09:32):
to think of the nice way of putting this, but
like haunted houses as a brand, they're just not as
big as we think they are. Oh yeah, And so
when you have these music festivals, like you almost need
the artist to be that draw, to have that brand.
At what point, Philip, do you see haunts And I
know some have already done this, but stemming out and

(09:56):
actually getting the rights or paying for rights to use
you know, movie IP or comic IP or some type
of IP to then create an experience around because right now,
the only thing I could think of commercially is Halloween
or Nights you know, or six Flags. They did Friedfest
yet last year, which I would call a failure, but
I would Yeah, you know, it's but like kind of

(10:18):
going that route.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, that's funny.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Because you and I would call that a failure, but
I feel like they thought it was a success and
also RW I thought it was a success because they
like use it as their main marketing point to sell
you know, Legoland.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, so that was that was a thing.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
So that's an interesting question, and I think the answer
is the thing that's holding it back is actually the haunters,
because I think haunters want to do their.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Haunts, right. I mean, that's that's that's the simple thing.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
I mean you look at like the people that are
serious about business, you know, like like Spencer. I mean,
that's why they're doing the music. I mean, you know,
I mean I think that's a big piece of it.
Because look at Jason Egan over in Vegas.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Right.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
So Jason, I think is probably been the most successful
at non horror IP because he built the john Wick experience.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
And this is a haunter.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
This is a guy who started in haunted houses and
then he did the IT experience, and he's did the
Blair WB project, and he did like even a horror
pizza shop. I mean, he's like been all about horror
and then he's like he's like, look, Universal is coming
to my backyard. With Horror Unleashed, and I know that
I'm not gonna be able to compete against that. So
what I'm gonna do instead is do what they is

(11:38):
follow the opportunity that they're creating by coming into the market.
So they're coming in with a horror IP that's like this,
you know whatever he's like, So I'm going to make
an adventure based action IP experience that compliments it. And
you know, I think but in his case, you know,
like you know, he likes horror, like I know he
likes I mean, you know, I think that's the bigger
problem I think is that the haunters, that's what they

(12:00):
want to do, and so you know, like with Hush,
like Hush is in an example, they're doing like a
teaky event at the bar for the summer, and it's
like has something to do with horror, right, But I
think I think it's more that the haunters are holding
it back. Because anybody, especially now that Licensing Expo has
announced so many partnerships with the TA and with the

(12:22):
Them Entertainment Association Theme Entertainment Industry, and they have you know,
dedicated areas to them, it's pretty easy for a haunter
to get a license to something. So I think it's
more just about that they don't really want to make
experiences that are not tied to horror.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah. I think part of that's also you just don't
realize the value and IP can have, you know, it's.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Like or even Universal doesn't realize it in my opinion,
but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
No, I mean that's exactly right when we when we
hear it all the time of like, you know, oh,
how come we're not seeing these numbers with such and
such is like, well, their brand is bigger and better,
you know, the brand has more power, has more draw.
You know. It's like you know, of course, you know,
looking at fear Worm and even our pair, you know,
our company red Rock. You know, when you're looking at

(13:08):
an advertising budget for say Metallica versus an advertising budget
for Nickelback, Yeah, Nickelback probably spends more. They probably have to.
With Metallica, you can just make a post and you'll
sell out. You know. It's just like that's the power
of their draw, of their brand. Unfortunately, that's not fear Factory,

(13:31):
that's not another world. And so you almost like you
have to keep in mind like with these off season
shows or these fan fast type shows or like we're
talking about, at what point do the Haunters say, Hey,
I want to go license hell Raiser and build a
hell Raiser experience based off the movie IP. You know

(13:52):
how much of the draw would that be?

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (13:55):
I think looking at the chat here, I think Robert
first of all, Rob or yes, editing is ninety percent
of my life recently.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
But I think Robert has a good point here.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
He says, I think the majority of Haunts, uh see,
getting an IP is different level, maybe like a brass
ring that they can't reach. I do think, and that's
I think similar to maybe to what Tyler's is also saying.
In part of Tyler's response, I think is that idea
of like it's.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Out of reach.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
I would say, it's not as out as reach as
you think, really, and I think that you need to
approach it maybe with two lenses. You know, one is
you can you know, Haunters are themed entertainment designers basically,
and I think that one way for Haunt to approach
it is to look at putting together a pop up

(14:46):
project or some sort of project and get work with
someone to get funding and then approach the IP.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
That is like people. That's pretty common.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
I think you see we see it all the time
where people you know, they they basically you're then you're just.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Like an experience designer and you're working to create that.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
But then of course there's approaching them directly, which is
an option if you're trying to put it at your location.
But it's not as inaccessible as you think, especially if
you're able to get some funding. And this is something
like Spencer is huge, like great with you know, like
getting funding from Rockstar to work on their bar, you know,

(15:22):
a couple of seasons ago. I think you know, there's
you know, you could get somebody to get funding to
do it as a outside your event, or you could
try and put it on your property and get funding
from somebody else, or you could just approach them if
you have the budget to put together do it on
your own. That's also an opportunity. Also, you can think
more local, and this is what when we do our

(15:44):
green Tag newsletter and we talked about this in a newsletter.
Is a takeaway of like there are also local celebrities,
and I think that's also speaking to what you're mentioned Tyler.
It's like different ips, you have different reach in different regions,
and I definitely think there are local yps, So there's
definitely like local celebrities and local things that you could

(16:07):
do a deal with. And I just think you could
think of that on any level, Like you could do
something with even a local college or a local high
school if they have a big thing, or you could
do it with like a local brand of beer or
a local brand of energy drink if they have a
popular place there. And I mean, like, I think that's
the thing that Horror Knights also unlocked for all of us,
which is and also shout out to Chris Stafford at

(16:31):
thirteen four because they also did this, and I think
they get talked about a lot less, although I would
argue it's probably harder for them, but they both of
these places Thirteenth Floor and Universal, they built a bridge
for all of us between horror and music.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Right, So we saw it where multiple times.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
You know, the Horror Knights has featured a music artist
that isn't a horror artist, and then in last years
at Lehna Hayride.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
There also was a haunt based off of a music artists.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
It wasn't just a horror artist, right, And do you
see that with the weekend and then you saw that
also with Eleana Hey I And so I think that's
another like article or another option is like you know,
it doesn't you can you can take something that is
not horror and like you can make it horror also,
And that can help you when you're trying to lean

(17:20):
in locally to things you can do locally to like
local celebrities or with local brands. Again, if you don't
have the budget or you don't have the interest in
putting together an investment or doing something larger.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, I think you have a great point, especially with
the local brands, you know, as an example, if you're
in Chicago, and it doesn't have to be like music
or movies, it could be food and beverage, you know,
if you're in Chicago. If I had an event in Chicago,
I'm going to try to partner with luman Audi's to
sell pizza at my event. Yeah, you know, because that's
a local, beloved pizza place, you know, and what Haunted

(17:55):
event doesn't sell pizza by the slice?

Speaker 1 (17:57):
You know.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
It's just like to me, it's a great partnership. I
think that's in this kind of is one of those
things we see a lot in the theme parks that
I think over time it's slowly trickling into Haunt space
thanks to people like thirteen Floor or Jason Egan, things
like that and just kind of bringing this horror, Ip
what can we do? And and Phil, Philip, you hit

(18:18):
it right on the head that Haunt owners and operators
are really just themed attraction specialists like designers and builders.
So they're almost already primed to create really cool experiences
if they just had an IP to work with another one.
I have another question I have for you, and this

(18:40):
might be a heady topic. I know we discussed bringing
this up maybe a little later and to not get
I don't want this to get political.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
But like anytime someone says that, God, here we go.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
But at what point? So I know, right now, big
fear and the economy and everything is tariffs. I know
Ayappa has been putting out as along with you, you know,
filled with the HONT network. I've been putting out information
regarding how tariffs are going to impact their industry, the
amusement theme park industry, or how immigration may affect employment,

(19:20):
you know, the employment industry. There are people in the
HANT industry that say tariffs don't have any impact on haunts.
But I wanted to get like start this conversation of
of how tariffs could impact these shows and events and
what's the reality of that that the amusement parks are
seeing that, like everything else, will eventually trickle down to

(19:42):
haunt houses and smaller events.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Wait what specifically, de Larry Faye, Yeah, I think.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
I think in my view, there's no way it's not
going to impact haunted houses. But I think that haunted
houses at the same time are also pretty insulated, relatively insulated.
I mean, it's the same thing with like, you know,
if you look at recessionary time period, like people still

(20:16):
like hount houses. It's the whole idea of escapism because
you know, you're like going to go into something that's
like supposed to be you know, it's like you live
in a real life that's scary, so you want to
go into like a fictional scary and it helps you
like kind of you know, decompress.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
So I think that for the most part, haunts are
pretty resilient.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
I also think that haunters are haunters, and haunters being haunters, like,
you know, if they need to, they can go to
the local dump and turn a pile of trash into
a haunt.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
I mean they can they can figure it out, right,
I think.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
And that's we know of those haunters.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah, I think in a way they are.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
I think if you look at it in my take
as also being a manufacturer means so close to it.
Terrorists are going to impact every part of the economy,
like every possible layer of everything in in America, and
so I think in that vein you have people that
there's going to be winners and losers, just like everything,
and you know, it's probably going to be pretty tough

(21:11):
for Amazon, you know, but I think haunters probably are
in one of the best positions for it, and there
is there is an.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Opportunity here if they could navigate to it.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
You know. The opportunity is that you look around to
see what your compet your competition and I don't mean
other haunts. I mean by competition, I mean like Netflix, Right,
if the Hollywood thing goes through, Netflix might have to
raise prices. You know, There's all that, but also you
look at movie theaters, you look at other the competition
that haunts have. You look at your local market. What

(21:44):
else are people spending their time on if you're able
to keep your pricing the same or even do stuff
that adds value, not necessarily lower your ticket prices, but
add value, add perceived.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Value to your event.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
You could come in at a time where everything else
is getting more expended, and that could help you capture
market share.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
And I agree, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
So I think there's an opportunities. So I don't want
to be like all crazy negative about it.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
I think there's a great opportunity that haunts if they
navigate it, like consciously, you can't. I mean, I think
just sitting back and doing nothing is is not what
I would advise. I would advise looking at what's going
on and making a plan to kind of navigate it.
But I think you know the I'm sure haunters already
thought of this. But the main thing is obviously it's

(22:27):
going to be a cost of materials. Like I know
that a lot of haunters make their stuff, but it's
cost of materials. And I do also want to point
out that, like, yes, it's cost materials. So even if
you make like your own you do your own fabricating,
or you do whatever you do, like literally anything that
you do, the materials are going to become more expensive.

(22:48):
But I think also to me, the biggest risk there
are two big risks, and one is the risk to
our small manufacturers. Small businesses make up I think the
majority of the Haunt industry. And you know, you just
think of like all of the small people, like I mean,
and I think a lot of them have done a

(23:09):
good job. Like rib Effects said, they're going to try
and keep prices the same, even though you know they're
playing so much more for items. We have Brandy Beasts
who's talking about telling people like to order your fur
now because she's going to you know, she's being transparent.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
This is not sure I have left. This is what
we're doing.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
You know, I think that's great, But I think that's
more where we should be worried about protecting the independent
businesses and you know, making sure that we support them
if we can, to make sure they're still around or
that you know, they can weather. Because the big difference
here is like you know, the the tear plan might change,
it might go away, it might be adjusted. You know,

(23:46):
however the administration sees fit will you know, whatever they
want to do, it'll it'll change, right, But like I
think bigger businesses will be fine because they have cash
and they can take they can take loans. In the
independent haunt businesses, you know, probably the loans are more
dangerous for them, and they are smaller, they have less

(24:07):
less runway. I mean we talked about this at Gantum.
I only have two or three months of runway, and
you know that's like that that may not be enough,
depending on how the sales are impacted and all that.
So I think I think that's one of the big
the two big things. And the other thing, also a
reference earlier, is also like then it trickles down to

(24:28):
your local market, and some markets are going to be
affected more than others in terms of like if you're
in an area where people are being laid off, or
if you're in an area where they have less to
social income, that could impact you. But I think in
either of these cases, what I said at the beginning
is will hold true. I mean, if you're trying to
create add more value, but try and keep your pricing

(24:51):
in the range of what people can afford. You know,
I think that they'll find a way, you know, to
pay for tickets to come to your haunt, and then
obviously you can balance out. You know, you can look
at your budget and say, Okay, well we're going to
really support this vendor, so we're gonna buy this thing
from them. But maybe we're gonna make these other things ourselves,
and or we're gonna instead of making too many new things,

(25:13):
we're gonna buy this one thing and then we're gonna
add in more acting, or we're gonna expand this area,
or we're going to do this extra thing, or you
know whatever. There are ways I think for the for
haunts really to combat it in ways that other industries
can't that, you know. So I think in that way
they're they're in a really good place.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, I tend I tend to agree with that. I
think haunters sometimes don't realize how much of the you know,
like you said, a lot of these haunters they make
a lot themselves, and they're great at it. How much
of those materials actually do come from overseas?

Speaker 1 (25:44):
You like, even almost everything, like almost any material that'll
haunt is Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Even your wooden lumbers coming from Canada.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, like everything. I don't know like that, That to
me too is also puzzling. I think maybe they don't
know how much it's going to go up or you
know whatever. It's like, you know, I I of course,
I think the Haunt should look at their budgets again
and look at actually look at their materials. I mean makeup.
I mean there's so much of that stuff too. It's

(26:10):
gonna like, you know, your makeup costs are going to
go up all of your I don't know about fog.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
I didn't talk to froggies, but I don't know how
what IFA's going to be impacted or not.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
But yeah, I mean I don't know if they're sourcing
glycerine and things like that from the US or from overseas,
like you never know. But even but even then, the
plastic containers the fog goes in, yep, you know, probably
comes from overseas.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, it's like I think the Haunt also should be
paying attention to that, looking at their consumables for the
season in the same way that you would look at
your staffing schedule and look at you know, that kind
of stuff. Your consumables for the season are probably going
to go up, so that's going to take a bigger
percentage of your budget.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Roberts mentioned that the fog machines already went up.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, I thought so because I think you know, we
talked a little bit at the East Coast Show about
that and how they were trying to lock in or
before prices you know change.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
But yeah, fog machines go up.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah, you know, I'm just thinking just now, my brain
is kind of going down the rabbit hole, like everything,
even the little little led lights like you mentioned with Gantham.
You know, it's like I can't I mean, course, I
don't work in that industry, and you know, thank I
can't say this. One benefit of us being who we
are is that we don't produce anything physical. You know,
when people hire us, they're paying for this. They're paying

(27:25):
for my brain and my time.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
That's also going to become a thing too.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
And we're already seeing it, right, We're seeing like places,
you know, I mean, America is a service economy.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
We export services.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
We're really great at exporting services, or great at exporting entertainment.
But you're already seeing people turn away from that. So
I don't think that will impact haunters necessarily because there
are very few of them that are like actively pitching
international clients on doing horror projects.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
You know, overseas, but we've had we've had people come
talk to us, people from Switzerland or from Germany or so, hey,
can are you all able to do this or do
this some some thing things we can and some things
we can't. Ye know. In the marketing world, it's like,
you know, there are tactics and things that we we
can do here that are illegal. Yeah. Yeah, well for

(28:11):
better or for worse.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
You know, it's just you know, but what are privacy laws?

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah, I know, what's what's privacy?

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, Yeah, there's a lot of good conversation in the
chat here.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, Roberts ads that. Yeah, the fog machines went up
on May first. Yeah, Zombie skins Is said they're going
to keep me it the same.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah. I think that's also.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
I mean, I'm happy that we have so many vendors
that are really trying to keep it the same. But
I also worry about their businesses too, because you know,
like you can only survive so long and giving your
margin away, and I just I just you know, I
just hope that. I think as a community, we need
to protect each other, we need to like stick up
for each other, and I just that's really what more,

(28:52):
I think the angle we need to take is being
like making sure that all of us are getting through.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
Yeah. Now Robert mentioned that, say zombie Skin, they're kind
of trying to keep everything the same. Yeah, and you
mentioned something earlier kind of along those lines. And I
you know, I'm going to hit you with a comment.
I want to get your feedback on it. But would
you say that right now is the absolutely worst time
to try and raise ticket prices for your event.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I don't think so not. I mean I think if
you I don't even know who is like how many.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
I don't think that many haunts are putting out tickets.
I also don't think that people are really paying that
much attention to haunts. I mean, you don't have the
like there are whole forums dedicated to tracking the price
of the home depot Halloween stuff, right, I don't think
that there are there really is going to be that many.
That's that's tracking your haunts. So again, in that way,

(29:49):
the we always complain about how, you know, we have
to do all this work to get the attentions of
the ticket and all that, But in this way it
might be a benefit because I don't think people are
going to be like looking at your stuff with a microscope.
As far as I know, the only person that tracks
prices in the industry is me, So like.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
We only really we track only a little bit because
clients will ask us, Yeah, we think. I personally think
it's a bad time to raise prices right now. And
it's only because you know, I.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Don't even know. I mean, like, well, that's the thing
is like that we we.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Do know that people will have multiple hant house websites
open and comparing just locally, like, oh, if we're going
to a hant house, let's look at the three of
these and yeah, you know, compare so and price always
wins out, the price and value proposition always wins out.
And you know, so it's like, is it is it
the best thing for haunts to keep prices the same?

(30:45):
But like you said, maybe do something that increases that
value proposition to win that battle.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, I mean, but I don't think people are comparing
right now, is my point.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Like, I don't know right now, right now, they're not.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
That's why I'm saying where I'm like, I mean, right
now in like halfway to Halloween, you know, might might
be a good time, or you could you could pitch
it where I mean, you could do the opposite. I
mean we I think we saw this. I mean we
were just at East Coast and you know there were
haunts that were there promoting their haunt and selling tickets
and talking about their stuff.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
I think, like, you know, I think.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
That that selling tickets now, like guaranteeing this price, you know,
could be also a strategy for people is to kind
of be like, you know, we're going to have our
our you know, old pricing for this this year, if
you're buying now or whatever. I mean, I just I
don't think people are comparing haunt prices like currently right now.
So I think if there was a time you wanted

(31:43):
to cover, to do it now probably is a good time.
It might hurt you as your point in the Haunt
season if your biggest competitor didn't raise prices, So it
might hurt you at that time, but you could counterbalance
that with value proposition, you know, revalue propition stuff, or
by doing stuff where you're rewarding your best customers. Right,

(32:04):
do your you know, your legacy pricing or whatever to
those people.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Right, Let me get your opinion on this. You know,
I have heard from a few people, not in the
hot industry, it's just outside haunt industry, other entertainments and
parks and things. Is that they are worried about their
Q three events sales, which is the fall, which is Halloween,
because generally the populace doesn't have as much spending power

(32:30):
as they did a few years ago, and the reality
of them saving money for Christmas is going to impact
Q three sales. How does that impact the Haunt houses.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
I think it's very similar to what we said previously also,
but I do want to kind of like take a
step back and look at a little bit larger theory.
We did an episode on this a few weeks ago,
but basically we were looking at what can unite airlines'
earnings and there their travel spend tell us about, you know,

(33:06):
where where travel is going. And I think it's important
for haunters or business people to understand the difference between
trailing indicators and leading indicators. Okay, if you were looking
right now at Disney's their their recent earnings call, I
think that's a bad thing to look at because it's
a trailing indicator. Okay, they're reporting on like the last quarter, Okay,

(33:30):
and things happen very quickly, you know, this year, and
so I think looking at trailing indicators can can get
you like looking at the wrong data, and so that's
why I like to look We like to look at
things that are leading indicators. So look at like who,
how are what's going on with purchases for airline tickets? Right,
what's going on for purchases for other tourism experiences. So

(33:53):
that's why we looked at those things. And I think
like if you look at the United purchases and what
they're looking at, I think you do kind of see
a pattern that basically breaks up into I kind of
called it a barbell. So you're looking at like there
there's lots of interest in budget, and there's also a
lot of interest in luxury, and then if you think
about kind of Americans, the American vanishing middle class, that

(34:16):
kind of makes sense. And so I think hants can
look at trends like that. You know, it's going to
be hard to predict Q three at this point, but
I think if you look at those leading indicators, things
like how sales are doing with those items and how
those how spending is being packed all that, I think
you can make some product. But my overall trend as

(34:40):
what I'm seeing is that like you should be aware
of that barbell, which is back to the idea of like,
you know, having having different values at your haunt, but
being very aware of the budget constraints. And I think
that's where the value thing comes in. And I think
though at the same time, I think Hans hants definitely
can choose I don't know how many of them it

(35:02):
would work for them to choose luxury, like, I don't
know if they like how many of them can You know,
Disney can obviously, but I think I'm not sure about
other I'm not sure about which haunts can do that.
But I'm just saying, like, I think value is gonna
be increasingly a big part of the conversation, you know,
what's it worth?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Is it really worth it? Blah blah.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
And then I also think there's going to be a
growing market for luxury because you know, we have the
biggest growing demographic is millionaires in America, and so there's
still like a whole ecosystem, there's a whole thing for luxury,
and I think Disney probably is, you know, trying to

(35:43):
hone in on that particular market because I was thinking
just even recently, like the Star Wars Nights. I was
like one hundred and eighty a ticket for Star Wars
Nights and it's like four hours, and then you have
to do parking on top of that, which is thirty
five and you have to Like it's crazy. Like I
was like, there's if Disney didn't give me a free ticket,
I would.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Never have gone. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
But like I think that's you know, and then you
compare that again with Fan Fast Nights, and again we
see this same thing.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Literally events are selling out.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yeah, so Fan Fast Nights.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
It's like if you're already in the parks, we have
like an annual pass, you can upgrade for fifty dollars
to fan Fest Nights and it's open till two. So
you get from like seven to two and you get
to do the Back of the Future, you get to
do Dungeon Dragons, you get to do Star Trek and
you get to do that. There's live bands, there's a cost,
and there's like enough entertainment to keep you until two am. Okay,

(36:37):
Star Wars Nights in the same market, like literally like
an hour down the road there's Star Wars Nights and
it's four hours, and it's one hundred and eighty plus parking,
and there's like not really a discount. There's like a
five dollar discount for pass holders. So like, I think
this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
It's like how much how much was the fan fest
ticket if you weren't in the park already?

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Just I think it's seventy four or seventy eight in
that range, So.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Oh wow, okay, yeah, so it's a deal.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, it's again that's the thing. You compare it.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
You're like it's one hundred dollars less than Star Wars
Line and it's like almost twice as long, you know,
and there's actual attractions like Star Wars Science is literally
just like the you know there there's a there's not
even like a cavalcade there or a parade. There's like
the fans all do their own parade, you know, like

(37:29):
like you are the performer, like you're the also. Yeah,
so like you know, it's great, Like I mean, I
enjoyed Star Wars lince. I think that it's fun to
dress up and to all that. But I mean, I
think this is exactly what we're looking at in these markets.
Is this bifurcation where you're like just like your point
where you're like you're the people are comparing them. I mean,
if you compare them to me, it's a pretty easy choice.

(37:50):
But also I'm poor, so maybe there's like you know,
I'm just saying right, Like, I mean, I think that's
getting to what what world we're talking about it here.
I think there's going to be this bifurcation. So I
think the Haunts should just be mindful of that bifurcation too,
Like there is an opportunity also to hit the luxury market.
I'm not sure how many haunts can do that or.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
Well, you know a great example I always think of
as Dark Hour here in Dallas. Yeah, well technically plan out,
but the DFW area they have there, their VIP packages
are great. They have a dedicated room, has drinks and snacks,
you get a tour guide. You know, It's like they
could totally offer that VIP premium experience at their Haunt house,

(38:32):
but while also offering at the exact same time they're
cheaper just kind of tickets to hit both those crowds.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah, I think that's going to be a fundamental pricing
for the season is going to be figuring out, you know,
doing your analysis and blah blah blah blah, but also
being like, okay, you know, is there opportunity for luxury
and then understanding where in that budget range you know,
your your demographic is falling, but either way it's going

(39:02):
to be leaning into that value. And I just think,
like the again, the I think universe. What Universal did
well with Fanfast Nights was make the value proposition so high,
like come on, like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, that's really hard that get Yeah, that value proposition
is is very high.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, Like I'm not even sure, Like I mean that
is like for fifty dollars to get from.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Semprofitable at that point. You know, it's just like are
they even covering payroll?

Speaker 1 (39:30):
I mean it's crazy. I literally I have no idea.
I'm just like that is nuts. And that you could
just go through. You could stay down there in the
back of the future for just like hours, you know,
you could watch all the different characters, or you could
go and do the live bands, or you could I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
You could watch the cosplayers.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
You could get character I mean like until two until
two in the morning, Like what earth Like, Yeah, I
think you know, I give them a lot of shit
for their event because I think that they I basically
I came up with like a formula that was able
to compare. It's like a weighted average. It was like
global reach versus local reach versus local ticket sales for

(40:09):
the IP, and then I put that weighted average together
and then I ranked all the IPS, and like the
ones they did that they did experiences for were at
the bottom of the list. And I was like, you
should have kept back to the future but taken D
and D and Star Trek and made them like one piece,
you know, or something else. And you know, so I

(40:31):
do give them shit to that. But the value proposition,
it's there's I mean there's no.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Yeah, that's massive.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, like in LA for fifty dollars, and especially if
you already have parking like a pass number, like I
get free parking, so it's truly fifty dollars for me,
like I could just show up and park for free.
I mean, like I paid thirty five dollars for parking
for an event recently, So I'm like, this is crazy.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Yeah, it's the no. I mean, those are those all
great points. And I think, you know, being aware, being
at least being conscientious of especially if you're in a market,
say like in LA or Chicago, or in New York, Atlanta,
in New Orleans, you know, these major markets, or even
Salt Lake City. Yeah, where that bifurcation may be greater.

(41:21):
There may be more disparity between, like you said, more
millionaires and the peasants below them, you know, and so
you might have to you may be forced to think
about these things in your preaching structure. Yeah, if you're
in as, if you're in Mobile, Alabama, probably not that
big of a of a swaying factor. In Chicago, New York, LA,

(41:41):
those markets way more.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, And I think that there's definitely, especially in LA,
there's plenty of events where they can only sell to luxury.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
You know, I don't I don't really recommend that for
a lot of haunts. Like you said, I think it's
very market dependent. But I know it is a thing
that in the larger markets where you you know, I
mean even back when Scott was doing it, his event
there in Tampa was pretty luxury, and it was like
one hundred and twenty dollars. The minimum ticket was one

(42:13):
hundred and twenty, you know, and that's pretty luxury. I mean,
I think for Tampa. That's pretty up there. So you know,
it does.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
It does.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
That is also a strategy that you could do, although
you might argue that like Star Cruiser disproved that it's sustainable,
but you.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Know, that's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
You know.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
When all that was happening and they announced the pricing
on I was like, yeah, that was crazy. This will
not last.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, I'm shocked.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
It sold so many, which I think it's just shows
their pricing power, but I'm just I was. I literally
was like shocked. I was like, yeah, I thought about it.
I was like, is there any way I could afford this?
And I was like no, this is crazy.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
Yeah, you know, and we did a it's all all
of this thinking, you know, for April Fools, you know
a month ago for Fear Factory kind of did a
joke where you could buy there's an overnight you could
stay in the night a Fear Factory and a ticket
was thirty thousand dollars or something stupid. But it's like,
how much of that really, like could be done?

Speaker 1 (43:13):
You know, I think there was something back here. It's
the comment back here from into the Fear a while
a backup.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
Let me let me find it for I got it
right here.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Yeah, this in my opinion, Yeah yeah yeah, So I
looking at this one, I think I can't like I
agree with this, but I do want to just point
out the perspective where and this might be something haunts
could like also consider in some of their stuff. It's

(43:46):
the concept of an MVP, right, like the minum what's
the minimum Bible product? And I think sometimes that like,
you know, there's no way around it, like the parks
are the people that make money at on Halloween haunts.
Some haunts make money, right, some don't, but like parks
might make a lot of money. And I think, you know,
it's it's not necessarily they don't care about the experience.

(44:08):
It's more like they're looking at like what is the
minimum that we need, like, you know, what makes it viable?
And I think that's understanding their audience, understanding like how
much the audience. You know, there's always gonna be the
diehard fans that will you know, notice every single detail
in the haunt, but you know the majority of them
like just don't, like.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
You know, this brings up a great, a great another
point of discussion, you know, you know, into the fear
mentions the wow factor versus like a creative factor or something. Yeah,
And a great testament to this, and what will be
a great test of how much the general public love
or appreciate horror is at Epic Universe, the new Universal

(44:50):
park opening in Orlando at the end of May. There's
a whole land called Dark Universe that is horror themed.
You know, I think, I think to me, to me,
that is their biggest risk in that whole part Dark
Universe is the riskiest part of the whole plan. And

(45:10):
what are your thoughts on that? Like, is this another
great example that adds to the list of like Stranger
Things or these cheap like terrifier, these horror movies that
make so much money? You know? Is this a good
Is this going to be another test of how much
horror can the general public stomach on a year round basis?

Speaker 2 (45:29):
You know, it's it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
I really want to know, I like, I really want
to see the data that Universal sees or like see
the how they're you know, what data they're making these decisions.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Based off of.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
I think that the monsters, you know, the universe, the
horror part of Universal definitely has legs. It's definitely a
popular component and it's interesting that they they what they
how they chose to do that at Dark Universe or
they're basically like trying to invent kind of new characters
instead of going with like, you know, the stuff, they're

(46:04):
actually knowing that that that's an interesting thing. And same
thing with Horror Unleashed. You know, they're trying that in Vegas,
and I don't think you know, they say those are
that the the eyps at Horrorunleashed are their most exciting eyps.
I am like, what are you guys smoking? Because if
it were me, I'm not going to travel to that,

(46:25):
Like you know, I wouldn't travel with that because I've
already seen it. But if it was five nights at Freddy's,
I would be there, right, you know. And I think
that's that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
So I just.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
That's it's strange to me that they're doing it in
that way.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
And I think the only thing I.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Can possibly think of is they must be trying to
test what you're talking about, where they're like, Okay, if
we just have our regular eyeps, you know, how much
demand can they kind of generate in a year round fashion,
you know?

Speaker 2 (46:53):
And what.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Because they they own them, right, so I mean, you know,
obviously it would be the best case scenario for them
if they were able to kind of monetize these ips
year round, because then they could you know, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
And I think they realize it's also the riskiest part
of that whole park because it's the smallest of the lands.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, which probably is also why they did the most
advanced dark ride there, you know, where they're like, they're
basically like, this ride's going to be something that everyone
has to see because it's so incredible, and so it
doesn't matter really if it's IP or not.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
And I think that.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
My only thing, and I think you saw this with
Fan Fast Nights too. My only argument against that is
like you're polluting your own data basically, right, So I think,
like with Fan Fast Nights, Scott and I talked to
this on our podcast. It's like the back to the
future experience there, like is so incredible if you like

(47:54):
back to the future at all, like you have to go.
But it's also in its own way, it's skewing the day.
And I think that also might be what is happening
with with you know, the Dark Universe, because the ride
is so good, everyone has to do it. So now
now it's like is it because the ride is good
or is it because it's horror?

Speaker 3 (48:14):
Right?

Speaker 1 (48:14):
And now so now your data is muddy, and so
you don't really know, like we still don't really know
like how how how much sticking power, how much you know,
monetization that power they have for horror. So I think
what they might have been doing is they might have
been trying to test it but also mitigate it at
the same time. What that did is muddy their data, right,
So like now we really don't know, Like at fan

(48:35):
fast Land swere like we really don't know, like you know,
if they had rebalanced the portfolio of the IPS or whatever,
like we you know, we don't really know how much
sticking power it has because they muddied their data and
they made it they leaned way more into nostalgia than
in popularity. And so now is this the nostalgia event
or is it a fandom event like they claim? And
right right, you know, and same thing with with the

(48:57):
Epic Universe, Like, yeah, they put the horror there, but
you have to go do that ride if you're visiting
the park, and so are they money their data?

Speaker 2 (49:05):
So I'm not sure we're ever going to know.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
I'm kind of like, like, you know, I think maybe
with horror and leash to we'll figure out what's going on.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Yeah, I think that'll be the Oldoman test, you know.
And I know they're building, they're building a universal building
a kids park here in DFW, and it begs the question,
will that kid's family park eventually have a Halloween event?

Speaker 1 (49:30):
You know?

Speaker 2 (49:31):
I doubt it.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
I doubt it too, but I doubt it if I were,
if I were working in Universal Creative, I would at
least ask the question, like, how could we pull that off?

Speaker 1 (49:40):
I think they're going to do a trick or treat event.
I don't think it's gonna be well yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
So there's a really interesting.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Point here that Austin says, uh, which I think is
this is a good opportunity. Yes, this one exactly like
it tally knows what I've been talking about h since
almost everyone who would go to HHM would pontificant time
in Dark Years. Here's the thing though, So I did
this when I looked at the comparison, like, I think

(50:15):
this is another thing. This is exactly the I don't
want to say the problem with haunters, but like.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
It's not a problem. This This just shows.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
You that we're in our own bubbles, and our bubble
is Halloween and haunts because we love Halloween and horror haunts. Okay,
what if I told you only three to seven percent
of people that go to Universali go to horror nights.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Yeah I knew that statistic. Yeah, and you're totally right
because like, yeah, so it's actually my neighbor, like my
neighbor right now, and they would not be able to
tell you on a house in town.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
You know. It's just like most the vast majority of
people do not think about Halloween until October twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yep, you know.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
It's just like it's is how it is.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
So, so that that's why such a liability is because
like it's actually like we see it as like, oh
my god, holin h is the biggest event, and it is.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
That is also true. But it is also true that
like what like.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
You know, ninety seven percent more people go to the
actual theme park to do the other things than they
do the horror nite things. And it's that that's why
it's such a that's why it's askew. That's also why
doing year round Hollween Hornites would make no sense, you know,
That's why they kind of you have to have to think, like,
if we're going to do different events, where they going
to be.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
And that's also why you're.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Looking at That's also why I think the fan Fest
Nights had more potential before they leaned into nostalgia. But
it has the potential because they can tap into fandoms
that are larger. Yes, like there are far more gamers
in the world than there are anyone who's ever even
thought about horror. Like it's just we're in this tiny,

(51:59):
my microscopic thing, and like that's why.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
I also, I think maybe you've alluded to that. I
don't think the Vegas property will do well because like
so Vegas is primarily gambling and conventions, trade shows, and
so it's like how much of that audience has enough
love of horror or even interest in horror to go
do a horror only event. You know, me personally, I

(52:24):
would much rather go see Penn and Teller or go
see Adele or something like that then go to you know,
and I work in this space and I would much
rather do those other things before I did that.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
I think.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
That's so curious I you know again, I want to
see the data, like how did they make this decision?
And why did they choose to go with ips that
are like so boring, Like you know, why again look
at what's popular and like hate to say this, folks,
but like Horror is not nearly as popular as gaming
or as anime even. I mean I we did this comparison,

(53:03):
you know, I I when I did the chart for
our for looking at we were looking at the the
this whole thing nostalgia and fandom and all that. And
you look at Super Mario eight hundred and thirty million
games sold versus Back to the Future, which sold eight
hundred and thirty three thousand tickets. So eight hundred and

(53:24):
thirty million or eight hundred and thirty thousand, right right,
I mean this is the scale that you're you're thinking of.
I mean even if you were like again they're like,
let's do a Super Mario haunt, I mean, come on,
that would be like so much Like I think that
the five Nights at Friday's is a great example, Like
if they had positioned five Nights at Friday's at Horror Unleashed,

(53:44):
it would really change, It would change entirely that you know,
the and maybe they will.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Maybe that's one of their rotating ips because they.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Can't pay for it, you know, for more than a month,
or somebody don't have the money or whatever.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
But I think.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
The Vegas thing is such an interesting question about like,
you know, you know, are they really going to or not.
I mean, it's really going to be interesting to watch
the thing. I don't appreciate about that. And I ranted
about this extensively and got a lot of heat for it.
So I guess I'll just do it again. But why not?
They already hate me. I think TJ is excellent. TJ

(54:23):
is great. The panel that I watched about when they
talked about it at the TA did not have TJ
on it, and they basically were like, we're going to
do what no haunt has ever done before. And he
basically just sat up there in trash tunt houses. And
I did not appreciate that being in the industry, because
if you were to believe Chris, you would believe that

(54:44):
like every haunted house in America just dumps you out
on a dangerous sidewalk street and none of them have
anything called bars or themed experiences or midways or any or.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
None of them know how to do story. They don't
know how to do midways.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
I had to bars, they don't have any connected characters,
they don't have any of these places to hang out
or any of that, and I was like, this is
so off base. And basically he was saying that since
no hunt in America has a midway, that they're going
to make a midway and it's going to be revolutionary.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
And I'm like, that's wrong.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
So that, I mean, that's the biggest one I have
so far with this is like they have not said anything.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Well, I mean, and I think that would apply for
Halloween Hornites, you know, I mean there are areas where
Halloween Hornites has kind of changed how I think event
hunt owners should look at certain aspects of business, especially
merch and food and beverage. If I were to take
technology out of it, and that's a big if, if
I were to take that out, Yeah, Halloween Hornitz, the

(55:48):
attractions have not revolutionized anything.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
If anything, they're just catching out in.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
The same thing over and over and over.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
Excellent thing. Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
It might as well be animatronics. Yeah right right, yeah, And.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
It's that idea, you know, I think Austin like kind
of is referencing it here and is also his recent note.
But like, I think, yeah, I think it's the idea
of your looking at again back to the MVP thing,
like what is the minimum thing? I think that like Horrnites,
we all love to go again. That's the that's the

(56:21):
hard part about this is that we're trying to like
be you know what you know, but also we just
love Hornites. Everyone I'm sure loves Hornites. They love to go,
love the vibe all that. But Tyler's right, like if
you look at it like they really, it's just the
same thing over and over and over. And it's exactly
what Austin's saying about the mass appeal, like you're just
they're just doing the minimum. They're doing the minimum they

(56:45):
can to sell the ticket. And you know, sometimes that's okay.
That's the business decision is to be like, what is
the minimum that we need to have a product?

Speaker 3 (56:53):
It makes money. We make the money on merch and
food and beverage. Yes, let's just phone it in on
the attraction. Keep in mind those like and you know,
and I had a friend text me, I guess they
were they were watching but they texted me during the
wormhole and said, can't compare it to the parks they
have rides and roller coasters. Mm hm, okay, I mean
that's also an argument you can make, you know, but exactly.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Like that's another thing we got to keep in mind too,
Like I didn't want to mention that too. It's like
it is also a little bit of a danger for
us to compare ourselves to the theme parks and especially comcasts,
because like we just we all I also just did
a talk on Comcast reviewing Comcast earnings and last week's
episode of the week before whatever, and they they in

(57:40):
last quarter alone, they generated five billion dollars in cash
just free cash flow from there. Like, so the reason
they're stock dipped for points, even though they just literally
are opening Epic Universe and everyone is saying it's great,
the reason they're stock dipped is because they lost two
hundred thousand broadband subscribers. And broadband makes it the vast
majority of their businessiness and it's very profitable and it's

(58:02):
very like it's it's such a good cash cattle product,
but like it is shrinking. So the game for them
is can we grow market share in other businesses fast
enough to do with the shrinking thing, and Wall Street
does not think they can or you know, things maybe
but maybe not. And it's like that's an interesting perspective

(58:23):
to also think about this, Like they're able to do
this test in Vegas that we for the Haunters. You
would have to spend a lot more time making a
business plan that would guarantee success, which is kind of
like what Jason is doing there with like Blair Witch
and with the escape the john Wick experience that he

(58:43):
just opened. Like that's why if you talk to those people,
they're so intelligent about the business and thinking about like what,
how are we really going to sell tickets and how
is this going to work? And all that To a degree,
Universal doesn't have to care because every quarter they're getting
five billion dollars and they can flush down the toilet
and so you know, we don't know how much whoor
Unleashed costs. I did do a whole analysis where I

(59:05):
tried to figure it out, but I can tell you
it is not five billion, you know, And so like
there in many ways they're kind of like, eh, I mean,
you can just it doesn't necessarily have to be a
fully fleshed out business plan. I would we would hope
that it would be, but it doesn't have to be
because of the position they're in. If anything, Disney is

(59:26):
in a worse position to be able to make bets
on things. Yeah, that's also why Disnink goes slower. And
that's also why Disney has to they have to have
the whole thing has to be figured out.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
They don't have a broad broadband product to sell to
the market.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Exactly, Yeah, that they can just then they don't have
to you know a word.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
All love of the Universal Parks is paid for by
Internet users, yeah, and cable subscribers.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Yeah, And so it is true, like it is hard
to I think that's what we have to also keep
that perspective in mind, is as haunts, you know, this
is our whole thing, and the business that we're doing
with our hunt has to work. And we can admire
the theme parks and all of us are fans of them,
but that's not kind of their only business is, you know,
is the thing that we see. So I think our

(01:00:12):
business plans have to be a little bit more thought out.
So also it's almost like trying to sometimes I swear
I'm like you know, we're sitting here trying to figure
out why they did this, and they're inside on that
and all this and that. But like the reality is
they it's possible that they just don't even bother that
they're just like, well, this might work, let's test it,
and we have money, so let's do it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
So, yeah, when you have when you have a five
billion dollar cash flow opening up a thirty million dollar attraction,
there's nothing. It's a drop in the buck. I mean,
thirty million compared to five billion is nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, And I think that's the
perspective that we have to always. I mean, so the
point the friend that tested you is is true and
that like you, it's it's hard.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
You got to keep your perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
But where I would argue is I still think that
there are things you can look at the big trends,
you know, like the ideas that you can take from it,
that you can be like, Okay, it is important to
think about what your MVP is. You know, is this
thing that you're putting into hunt really going to sell tickets?

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Is the question?

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
And I think you can take that away from what
they're doing. You can take the concept of does opening
in the spring? Does that work at all? You can
take that concept and you could test it, you know,
you there are things you can take from it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Does license, licensing and IP bring a benefit to me
and to my customers and pride value? Yeah, that's a
great summary. We're we're at the hour, folks, So yeah,
I know, I know, And this is kind of a
reminiscent of our old marketing Monday as well. You used
say no, But Philip, I want to thank you for

(01:01:51):
coming on. I always love having these discussions with you
and getting your input and insights from the amusement spaces.
How that can then trickle down to haunts and haunt
owners and maybe get an idea where things are headed. Yeah,
so thanks again for coming on. Thanks again everybody for watching.
The next Wormhole will be we're back on schedule. Will
be two weeks from now, so not next week, every

(01:02:13):
Friday or every other Friday. But hey, have a great weekend.
It's Mother's Day weekend, so you know, if your mom's
still around, go give him my big old hugs. Hey,
Iliya take her out they eat Philip, have a great weekend.
Thank you and we'll see you all next time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Today's episode was edited by me Philip Hernandez, with post
production by David Swape and original music composed by Chris Thomas.
Support for today's episode comes from Gantum Lightning and Controls.
Gantum illuminates attractions worldwide with the world's smallest intelligent spotlights.
From Dark Hour to Other World, Super Mario Land to
Hagrid's Bike, Gantum goes where other fixtures can't see what

(01:02:51):
you're missing With a free demo, sign up at gantum
dot com slash demo. That's scantum dot com slash demo.
The h a N Team includes Daryl Plunky, Emily Luis Rua,
Meghan Spells, Gavin BYRNS and omni Adventures. Until Next Time,
Stay Scary.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
This is a Haunted Attraction Network production.