June 21, 2024 • 28 mins
Former NBA player Dennis Hopson talks about getting drafted as a lottery pick and facing the challenge many of this year's NBA draft pick will face learning how to win in the NBA. Hopson also shares his experience playing with MJ and how Bulls practices really were. As a college basketball head coach he also shares where college basketball is headed.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Welcome once again to another episode ofHeavy in the Pain. Gerald Brown hanging
out with my man right here,former NBA player, NBA champion, now
he's a college basketball head coach.Mister Dennis Hopson aka d hop Aka had
the fade, had the hot top? Know you don't that's gone? No,
(00:34):
No, it's gone. How what'sgoing on? Man? Me?
What's up? Man? How youdoing? Man? I'm doing well.
Thoughts on these NBA Finals thus far? How surprised are you that the way
the Boston Celtics have been so dominantin these NBA Finals. I mean,
I'm not surprised. I think alot of people are kind of giving up
(00:54):
on Dallas too early. I mean, you look at Boston playing the first
two games at their place, andand uh, you know, j T
and Brown, them guys can play, man, they can play. And
uh, you know Kyrie and Luca. I think I think it's tomorrow they
play. I think tomorrow they play. I mean, hey, I'm sure
they'll probably win tomorrow. But again, man, you got each side has
(01:15):
a couple great guys, man thatcan get it done. And and again
I think when Boston's they they're winningat home, like you're supposed to.
Now, somebody's gonna have to steala game at somebody else's place. When
you look at the game now,because you were a prolific scorer in college,
you were a bad boy. Youknow. I don't know if I
(01:37):
ever told you that. You nevertold me that. Yeah, because you
know what, I just admind yourgame. You was a bad boy in
college. You didn't you didn't careabout that. Man. You was just
you. You want to because Mann, that's all you want to do.
Oh man, But you was abad boy in college. Man. You
look at the way the game isplayed now, how would your game?
(01:59):
Do you think You're game would havetranslated very well in this era of basketball
where it's really paced and space andgetting out on the open court. Yeah,
I think I think it would havebeen been great for me to play
during this time as a guard.I think the benefits now is you got
people like uh, I'm gonna useBrad Sellers because we're close friends. But
(02:23):
you got people like him seven toone, seven foot, you know,
playing on a perimeter. I thinkthe game now is where he would have
would have thrived big time. Butpeople like myself that, like you said,
could score the basketball. It's wideopen. You know, people are
playing with twelve to fifteen feet ofspacing. The only time they come together
now is when they're getting ready tohand the ball, offer or get ready
(02:45):
to pick set a pick for somebody. But yeah, I honestly believe that
it's you know, it's a lotuser friendly now than what it was back
in the day, because if youremember g back in the day, man,
you had big guys traditional fives andfours setting screens for two u's and
threes and point guards running ball screenaction. But you had all these big
guys on one half of the courtand it made it tough to score.
(03:08):
And now you know, you gotguys wide open, people are running the
spots and again they're giving you towardthe fifteen feet of space in the play
and you just do your thing.Yeah, is there a player that you
look at their game and you seesimbilance of your game in them? And
if you had to identify a player, who would that be? Oh,
that's a great question, man.I think I don't know, because I
(03:31):
think the game is a little different. I think at the position that I
played, the two guard position,we had the ball sometimes, But now
you got the ones, twos andthrees and fours. I mean they're running
ball screen stuff. So you know, that's a great question. I don't
know that I can sit here andthink of all the teams that's in the
league and kind of put my thumbon somebody that I feel like I was
(03:57):
similar to. I mean, howmuch of a trend? I always want
to ask you this, And youknow, again, you can look at
so many different ways in terms ofplayers careers and and and seeing how things
play out. How much of adifference do you think or of a challenge
it is to go to an organizationnow you're a lottery pick. From now
you're a lottery pick and you're abad boy in college. I remember when
(04:21):
y'all came into Garden and stuff likethat, TOI it up that year and
you're putting up these numbers. Howbig of an adjustment was was it for
you to go to an organization likethe Nets that really didn't have structure in
place, a winning culture, youknow, they were trying to develop and
(04:41):
stuff like that. How difficult andchallenging was that for you as a rookie
coming into the NBA as a lotterypick? It was it was a It
was a big challenge. It wasa very big challenge. Had great guys,
and I think some of the guyshave been around for a while,
and I think they kind of gotused to the situation that the nets were
(05:04):
in at that time that I gotthere. We had great guys, man,
we had people like like Buck Williams, Mike Jimiski, great guys.
They wanted to win. But Ijust think that they got used to the
situation. Uh. But I thinkthe biggest thing with me, Gerald is
is that when we had Dave woolfor my first nineteen games, and I
(05:27):
can honestly say to Dave wall hedidn't he didn't want me. He didn't
want me. He wanted Reggie Williams, and that was fair, but he
didn't want me, and I feltthat. And the other thing was being
a lottery pick. I didn't knowthe expectations that were put on me because
I didn't put those types of expectationson myself, because I was a guy
(05:49):
that always took his time and gota feel for the game and then did
my thing thereafter. But during thattime, you know, as I got
older, you know, I neverforget I got drafted and they handed me
to number twenty three. Now Ithought it was because I wore thirty two
(06:10):
in college and the number was retiredthat was doctor J's number. But come
to find out years later, butthat wasn't the reason. You know,
that number was given to me forfor me to be like somebody else.
But again I didn't put those typeof expectations on myself. I was a
let the game come to you typeof a guy. But again, if
(06:30):
I had to do it all overover again, I know I would have
been a lot more selfish than whatI was because I know that I could
have scored. I watched myself getbetter each year the three years that I
was in Jersey and the last yearI actually led a team to score.
But again it's it's it's one ofthose things to where I never really felt
(06:50):
welcome. And then on the otherside, I played with great guys that
I just don't know if they knewhow to win once got to a certain
point. Yeah, because I mean, again, we have the draft right
around the corner, and obviously thenarrative is that it's not going to be
a great crop of guys or whatever. But I've always wondered and I think
(07:12):
a lot of the times. Firstof all, I really don't believe in
that term bust because I think atthe end of the day, it's both
parties have some responsibility because if yousee a player and that player doesn't fit
in your system, yeah, hedoesn't fit in your system, and you
should have evaluated him a lot betterand at the end of the day give
(07:36):
him the opportunity. And then,let's be honest, a lot of organizations
don't know how to win, andyou really place the expectations on a rookie
to come in and change the dynamic, and a lot of times that has
to be the perfect storm. Youknow, how did you maintain not letting
(07:56):
him eat to you at eat atyou at the same time not falling into
the trappings of the other players,like, hey, you know, it's
nothing I can do. Both ofthem got to me. I think it
did eat at me. I thinkyou guys have a tough media media market
on that East Coast, and uh, it was one of those things to
work. Again, the expectations wereset by a lot of people, and
(08:20):
I didn't set those I didn't.I didn't. I didn't set those type
of expectations for myself. Had Iif I if I, if I were
able to do it over again,or I had to give a young kid
some advice, I would let themknow exactly what they need to do if
they were in the same situation.And any other thing is too. Man,
is when you're a player that's neverexperienced a lack of confidence and it
(08:43):
and it hits you, I thinkit can be uh something serious. I
think it could be very very serious. And I think that got to me
as well because I let the Ilet the the news. I think I
let the news get to me alittle bit because it's like, hey,
he's supposed to be doing and he'snot doing this, and I'll let that
get to me. And again,I've never experienced that before, so I
(09:05):
didn't know how to deal with that. So it was tough on the side
where I did fall into the trapof the other guys, and then on
the other side of that, itwas one of those things to where hey,
man, they're kind of beating youup a little bit. And I'm
not gonna say I didn't have thickskin, but I've never ever been beaten
up before, so it was hardfor me to deal with. Yeah,
cause you come from the Midwest,yes, you know what I'm saying,
(09:28):
and you're coming from Ohio and yougo to Ohio State and stuff. It
really is a big, big adjustment, and a lot of things factor into
the fact is that in an organization, you know, obviously embracing, like
we look at the Victor one beyond, but he goes to San Antonio where
there's a culture that is established ofexpectations at the same time being very,
(09:50):
very supportive. You leave from there, then you go to Chicago to the
Chicago Bulls, and that's kind ofthe opposites. It's almost like you go
from one extreme to the next.What was that experience like? And obviously
the environment and the expectations immediately shift. And how did you try to fit
in with a team that is obviouslyplaying for championships? I think, you
(10:15):
know, it was one of thosethings to where my third year leading New
Jersey and scoring. But again,we had four coaches in three years.
All right, so now we're dealingwith Bill Fitch and me and myself and
Chris Morris, and we just didn'tin Mookie Blaylock. We just didn't see
eye to eye with Bill Fitch.It was more of him talking about his
(10:37):
Boston Celtics days, Boston Celtics days, versus him trying to figure out how
he's going to coach us, andthat made it tough, so me and
him than CII. But the trade, I think he had a lot to
do with me being traded. AndI really think even though I was told
how Chicago felt about me, becausewhen we played them, I had decent
(11:00):
games against him and I was ableto do a decent job in guarding Michael
Jordan, they made a trade andit was something I'll never forget. Man.
I was at I was doing mybasketball camp here in Toledo, and
they came in and told me orI got a phone call saying that You've
been traded to Chicago. And Iwasn't happy about that. And the reason
(11:22):
I wasn't happy about that was becauseI knew I was going to be playing
behind one of the best players everplayed again, actually the best player to
play the game. Where are theminutes gonna come from? Where the minutes
gonna come from? And you knowthat was tough for me, But I
will say this, man, youknow getting traded there, you know myself,
(11:43):
Scottie and the Horse got drafted together. I knew bj because he played
at our new Stacy King, soI did have people on the team at
Me and Cliff Levingson got traded kindof like the same time, so we
connected very well. But what theydid was they brought a fireback, all
right. They had a They wereon a mission, and they knew exactly
(12:05):
what it was that they were tryingto accomplish. And every day was competitive,
man, it was super super competitive, g and it brought the mojo
back. Even though I didn't playa whole lot of minutes, it brought
the mojo back. It brought itbrought the fireback. How was it with
Michael Jordan on the team and howwas he as a team man? And
what kind of Michael Jordan's story couldyou tell us? You know what?
(12:26):
I can't. You know, it'sfunny because when you watch the Last Last
Dance, a lot of guys felta certain certain kind of way after watching
it. But you know, Ithought when I was there, man,
Mike never caused many problems. Imean he went at me and practice,
we went at each other, butas far as him hitting on me and
(12:46):
doing this and that, like theytried to portray him as being during the
documentary. I mean, he's neverdone that. I thought that he was
very competitive. I thought that theRed team in the White team, they
always talk trashing one another when wewere in there getting our ankles taped before
practice. But again, he's neverever done anything out the ordinary to me
(13:11):
outside to compete. Not one ofthe Michael Jordan's stories that I would say
is is it was funny man,because you know, with him having his
own shoe when we would pull upup up to games or on a row
we would be at games and thebus would pull up and he would see
somebody wearing his shoes. He wouldalways say, keep donating to the Jordan
fun you know. But uh,but outside that man again, we've never
(13:35):
we've never had those type of momentswhere he was being disrespectful, let's put
it that way, like people portrayhim to be in the in the Last
Dance. Yeah, I remember whenyou got traded to or with the Sacramento
and I remember coming up there.I remember see you up there as Sacramento,
(13:58):
and I would say that that youwere part of a team. You
spug web. Mitch Richmond really kindof in a sense started that shift that
continued on with c Web and allof them and really having the support,
because that was the biggest difference inmy opinion. It's not against New Jersey
(14:18):
back then. You know, youguys as competitive as you good could be
and you want to give it all, but the fans were receptive. In
Sacramental, you have this town whojust loved the Kings. Talk about your
experience going to the Sacramento Kings andhow much did it how much did you
take from that experience win an NBAchampionship and being part of the Bulls and
(14:41):
going into Sacramento and being a partof that transition to a team that was
respectable and really not that far frombeing a team that could be in the
playoffs. It was one of thosethings where when I first ate because I
got traded the fourth game into theseason, the fifth game into the the
season for Bobby Hanson in the firstround pick, and you know, I
(15:05):
was excited. I was excited togo. And it's funny because on paper,
you had a lot of great nameson paper. You know, you
talk about Waynemon Tisdale, Mitch Richmondhad just got traded the week before I.
Did you talk about spud web.You talk about Anthony Bonner, you
talk about Lionel Simmons, Pete Chillcut. It was a lot of guys,
Randy Brown, it was a lotof guys that were part of that team
(15:28):
with with with big time names.But again on the flip side of that
drill was you still had that organizationalorganizational structure like New Jersey where they went
through a ton of coaches. Theydidn't know, you know, what was
going on, and he had thisguy want this, another guy wanting that.
(15:48):
You had, you know, inregards to ownership. So it was
hard for us to put it alltogether. But again, I was able
to come from Chicago with a lotof fire, and I was competitive out
there. Man, I never forget. I think I averaged eighteen nineteen minutes
a game, and I averaged overten points a game during the eighteen nineteen
minutes a game that I played.So I kept that fire and practices were
(16:11):
somewhat competitive, not like in Chicago. Again, I think you had some
guys that had been around, eventhough they were younger, they had been
around for a little bit. BecauseI know Lionel, Anthony and Randy Brown,
they all got drafted there you know, again just kind of in that
funk. I'm gonna call it thefunk. That word might be a little
(16:32):
strong, but I'm gonna call itthe funk. And again, just didn't
know how to win, Man,But the names on paper, I mean,
you had a great you had greattalent on paper, just didn't know
how to put it all together towin. But we had a lot.
We had a great time because weall got along. Well. Yeah,
now you're coaching college basketball, andI want to ask you this question before
(16:52):
we wrap up, and really obviouslylooking at the landscape of college basketball to
sum it up in a nutshell,do you ever think and what ben yet,
when do you think we will everreturn to the freshman being the priority
in recruiting as opposed to the twentyfive six year old transfer ortal kid.
(17:15):
I don't know if we ever will, man, I don't know unless the
rule changes again, and I don'tknow if that's gonna happen or not.
And you feel bad for the youngergroup because if they're not a four or
a five star kid, it's probablygonna be tough for him. You know,
I think every level, there's somethingdifferent. On my level, the
nai level, I still get toI still get to coach because you know,
(17:38):
Moneys aren't transferent hands, so Istill get a chance to coach.
On a mid major level. Ifyou coach a kid up and he becomes
pretty decent, the high majors isgonna take him away because you know,
they're able to pay him a littlemore money. So when you talk about
the whole landscape and this nil thingis, it's not even playing grounds.
(18:03):
I mean the high major schools theycan pay more money in the mid major
school so not a mid major schoolsare going to struggle because if I get
a decent player like a ray JohnDennis that played at University of Toledo,
Baylor is gonna come in and takehim, you know. So it's so
it's very very tough, man.And what it does is it puts coaches
(18:26):
in a bad situation now because youon this is on all levels, you
can't build anything because even on ahigh level, high major level, I'm
sorry, if you're not accommodating akid, he's going to say, man,
I'm out of here if you're notgiving me what he wants. And
that has nothing to do with themoney. But if you if you're not
talking to him the what he wantsto be talked to, or he feels
(18:48):
like he's being disrespected, or he'snot playing or he's not playing enough,
or whatever the case may be.Man, they're making it too easy for
these kids. And the coaches arethe ones that you know, you're trying
to build something or develop a culture. It's gonna be tough for him to
do, man, because these kidshave too many options. Yeah, when
you look at it, and obviouslyyou know aspirations you've gotten in this coaching
(19:11):
and stuff, and and and you'reat the NAI level, what is your
goal? What is Dennis Hobson's ultimategoal? From that perspective of coaching?
You know, if I could moveup, I'll move up, man,
But you have to be where yourfeet are? Well haaha, would you
go n b A, No,I mean I'll go. I'll go anywhere
as long as I'm doing what Ilove to do, you know, And
(19:32):
I know the higher the level,the more uh, the more the more
it comes comes with that. Butbut but but again, you know,
I think I enjoy the game.I'm not gonna say I think I know
I enjoy the game and being ableto share a lot of information that would
share to me in the past.So you know, I wouldn't trade what
(19:53):
I'm doing for anything right now,even though I know that it's it's not
the best situation for a lot ofcoaches nowadays. But hey man, I'm
still doing what I love to do, So I'm going to continue to do
it until I get tired of itor I can't do it anymore. What
made you get into coaching? Goingand going backwards? What made you get
into coaching? Oh yeah, Ithink I think again. We can talk
(20:14):
about my New Jersey experiences. Youcould talk about things that I've learned from
all the great coaches that I've beenaround. So why keep that knowledge of
secret? Why not share what wasshared with me and try to help the
young generation, uh, get betterthrough the game of basketball, because it's
not about It's not about basketball,man, It's about what the game can
(20:34):
do for you. Because the gameis short lived, short term and you
hopefully you're going to live a longtime. But there's a lot of lessons,
lessons and things that you can learnthrough the game of basketball. And
you know, you learn I've learned. Everybody that's played they've learned, so
why keep what you've learned a secret? Why not? Why not? Why
not pass that information down to theto the younger group and in hopes that
(20:57):
it's going to help them develop andbecome a real person through the game.
Yeah, if you had an opportunityto speak to this upcoming draft class,
who a lot of don't really havea lot of high expectations or put on
them, it's already a negative associatedwith the fact is that it's not really
(21:17):
a good draft class. What messagewould you give to this class as they
go into this NBA draft? Firstof all, I don't I don't think
you know, Peter, it's funnythat you do. Hear people say it's
not a good draft. You knowwhat, They're getting an opportunity to play
at the highest level. All right, why would you say it's not it's
not a good draft? I mean, I don't know why people say that,
(21:38):
but I think you know, ifif, if if I had to
tell a young person or a youngkid that's about to be drafted, hey
man, you gotta you have togo in there man with a wheel and
and and play with a sense ofurgency, you know what I mean,
because you never know what's going tohappen no matter what, and stay committed
to your craft. I think stayingcommitted to your craft and going in and
(22:02):
learning from the veterans and and anddoing what they want you to do,
and hold yourself to a high regards, because again I think that's one of
the things where you know, bigtime coming out of college. But again
even in college, you know,average five points a game coming out of
school, okay, and then endedup becoming the all time leading scorer.
Why because I just didn't put thosetype of expectations on myself like a lot
(22:27):
of kids today, if you askhim, back up, back up,
back up, you said, youraverage what in high school? Know?
In college? I averaged five pointsa game as a freshman. Oh,
as a freshman as a freshman incollege, and I and I and I
started, I started a lot ofgames because we had a kid become ineligible.
But again when I went there,gee, I didn't have any expectations.
(22:48):
I didn't go in and say Iwas gonna be Big ten player of
the year. I didn't go inand say that I was gonna be a
first round draft pick. I didn'tgo in and say that I was gonna
lead it. I was gonna bethe all time leading scorer. These are
things that I didn't go in doing. So I've always been the type of
guy that, hey, man,you know, take your time and play
your play yourself into the right playyourself up. You don't don't don't go
in being overly aggressive. Same thing. But I would tell kids today,
(23:12):
you know what, if you wantto continue to get paid, you know,
you got to go in there witha sense of urgency. Man,
you know, buy in and dowhat's asking you to do. But don't
be afraid to do what you're capableof doing. And don't be bashful,
you know, go all out anddoing it. Yeah, you know,
I got to give you your flowers, right man, because I know what
(23:32):
I've said this to you on onon the phone, but I tell you
this, man, you know,I really really appreciate your friendship. Yeah,
during the time back then, manthat I admired you, I looked
up to you, you know,from just being suave and just again this
(23:52):
great phenomenal college basketball player and youcome to the NBA and you just dimonstrated
so much humility. What you showedto me. I always appreciate and I
can recall just being able to hangout with you going to Ohio State campus
and I never forget we're sitting upin the arena and we're sitting in there.
(24:18):
It was it Saint John's Arena,right in the summertime, and you
say, Yo, this young manright here, he from my hometown Toledo.
He coming here next year, JimmyJackson. I never forget that,
And it was like, Yo,we were sitting there, and I was
so amazed about just being on campusand just seeing how you maneuver it around
(24:41):
in your own and Columbus Ohio andjust again I always had the almost respect
And I thank you so much becauseyou gave me an image of understanding that
you know, again you don't haveto be a certain way. You could
have a level of humility and yetbe great at what you did. And
(25:03):
you know, I was really disappointedwhen you got traded to Chicago, but
and then coming to see you inSacramento and stuff, but I just always
want you always know, man,I never ever forgot all the humility and
the kindness you showed to me becauseI was a kid, ball boy from
Harlem. Yeah, single parent,household mother, but you know, it
(25:26):
was individuals such as yourself that befriendedme that I learned a lot from that.
At the end of the day.You know, certain things I look
at, I said, man,you know what, I admired that,
And again just just your humility andjust being who you are, down to
earth. And I'm so happy youwant the NBA Championship. I'm glad that
you, you know, coaching nowand touching young people's lives in so many
(25:49):
ways. And you know, evenbefore you came on the show and we
reconnected, always look and see whatyou were doing and stuff with a you
can't team and stuff. But Iappreciate you, man, love you for
that because you know, you showedme a lot of things man, in
positive ways and stuff. And youknow, I definitely appreciate you and always
(26:11):
don't want nothing but the best foryou and your family. Man. Yeah,
Man, I appreciate you as welltoo, g And it means a
lot, man, because you've beenaround a lot of great ones man,
the pat Ewings and as a bombhe's a bomb, no man, and
and and my boy Gerald Wilkins andall them. Man, come on,
man, you've been around some greatguys. Man, So it means a
(26:32):
lot coming from you, because again, I think you were that young man
that you knew what direction you weregoing in at an early age. And
I think that means a lot.A lot of kids today, you know,
they don't know what's gonna happen,and they don't have a plan.
But I think you was that guythat that had a plan. You made,
you made friendships and and and youknow, I see what you're doing,
(26:53):
man, And you have different peopleon your show, so you're still
being respected man, by a lotof the great ones. So it means
a lot coming from you. Socontinue to do your your thing, man,
and stay blessed. Man, keepdoing the right thing. Man.
Taking care of that sun. Man, Well, I got three, I
got two more, all of them. Twenty. I got one twenty five,
(27:14):
get very to be twenty five acouple of weeks, and then the
middle one twenty one, twenty.You know, he's twenty twenty two,
a young one in seventeen getting readyto be eighteen. But all boys,
So you know what, I takecare of mine. But you know,
definitely I appreciate the kindness and humility. Next time you come on my show,
don't be sitting over there drinking likeyou said, David Junior, you
(27:36):
know better than that. You gotyour little nightcap up. Yeah, I'm
grown man, I'm fifty nine yearsold. Man, I will say this.
You were smooth man. I learnedwhat you mean man with them clothes,
what you mean the close day youwere smooth with the honeys too.
I don't want to get you inno trouble because I don't know if you
gotta pass cause if you don't havea top lock key, I don't want
(27:59):
to be responsible for that. Yeah. Yeah, you were smool. You
were at the Apple. You weresmooled. I mean he hey, man,
Pearl, Man Pearl got me likethat, Dwayne, Rest in peace,
Rest in peace. That's right,man, Love you man, I
love you boy, man. Iappreciate you. Okay, Man, let
me know if I can help withsomething. Always the one and all that,
(28:19):
mister Dennis Hopson right here, heavierthe pay
Welcome once again to another episode ofHeavy in the Pain. Gerald Brown hanging
out with my man right here,former NBA player, NBA champion, now
he's a college basketball head coach.Mister Dennis Hopson aka d hop Aka had
the fade, had the hot top? Know you don't that's gone? No,
(00:34):
No, it's gone. How what'sgoing on? Man? Me?
What's up? Man? How youdoing? Man? I'm doing well.
Thoughts on these NBA Finals thus far? How surprised are you that the way
the Boston Celtics have been so dominantin these NBA Finals. I mean,
I'm not surprised. I think alot of people are kind of giving up
(00:54):
on Dallas too early. I mean, you look at Boston playing the first
two games at their place, andand uh, you know, j T
and Brown, them guys can play, man, they can play. And
uh, you know Kyrie and Luca. I think I think it's tomorrow they
play. I think tomorrow they play. I mean, hey, I'm sure
they'll probably win tomorrow. But again, man, you got each side has
(01:15):
a couple great guys, man thatcan get it done. And and again
I think when Boston's they they're winningat home, like you're supposed to.
Now, somebody's gonna have to steala game at somebody else's place. When
you look at the game now,because you were a prolific scorer in college,
you were a bad boy. Youknow. I don't know if I
(01:37):
ever told you that. You nevertold me that. Yeah, because you
know what, I just admind yourgame. You was a bad boy in
college. You didn't you didn't careabout that. Man. You was just
you. You want to because Mann, that's all you want to do.
Oh man, But you was abad boy in college. Man. You
look at the way the game isplayed now, how would your game?
(01:59):
Do you think You're game would havetranslated very well in this era of basketball
where it's really paced and space andgetting out on the open court. Yeah,
I think I think it would havebeen been great for me to play
during this time as a guard.I think the benefits now is you got
people like uh, I'm gonna useBrad Sellers because we're close friends. But
(02:23):
you got people like him seven toone, seven foot, you know,
playing on a perimeter. I thinkthe game now is where he would have
would have thrived big time. Butpeople like myself that, like you said,
could score the basketball. It's wideopen. You know, people are
playing with twelve to fifteen feet ofspacing. The only time they come together
now is when they're getting ready tohand the ball, offer or get ready
(02:45):
to pick set a pick for somebody. But yeah, I honestly believe that
it's you know, it's a lotuser friendly now than what it was back
in the day, because if youremember g back in the day, man,
you had big guys traditional fives andfours setting screens for two u's and
threes and point guards running ball screenaction. But you had all these big
guys on one half of the courtand it made it tough to score.
(03:08):
And now you know, you gotguys wide open, people are running the
spots and again they're giving you towardthe fifteen feet of space in the play
and you just do your thing.Yeah, is there a player that you
look at their game and you seesimbilance of your game in them? And
if you had to identify a player, who would that be? Oh,
that's a great question, man.I think I don't know, because I
(03:31):
think the game is a little different. I think at the position that I
played, the two guard position,we had the ball sometimes, But now
you got the ones, twos andthrees and fours. I mean they're running
ball screen stuff. So you know, that's a great question. I don't
know that I can sit here andthink of all the teams that's in the
league and kind of put my thumbon somebody that I feel like I was
(03:57):
similar to. I mean, howmuch of a trend? I always want
to ask you this, And youknow, again, you can look at
so many different ways in terms ofplayers careers and and and seeing how things
play out. How much of adifference do you think or of a challenge
it is to go to an organizationnow you're a lottery pick. From now
you're a lottery pick and you're abad boy in college. I remember when
(04:21):
y'all came into Garden and stuff likethat, TOI it up that year and
you're putting up these numbers. Howbig of an adjustment was was it for
you to go to an organization likethe Nets that really didn't have structure in
place, a winning culture, youknow, they were trying to develop and
(04:41):
stuff like that. How difficult andchallenging was that for you as a rookie
coming into the NBA as a lotterypick? It was it was a It
was a big challenge. It wasa very big challenge. Had great guys,
and I think some of the guyshave been around for a while,
and I think they kind of gotused to the situation that the nets were
(05:04):
in at that time that I gotthere. We had great guys, man,
we had people like like Buck Williams, Mike Jimiski, great guys.
They wanted to win. But Ijust think that they got used to the
situation. Uh. But I thinkthe biggest thing with me, Gerald is
is that when we had Dave woolfor my first nineteen games, and I
(05:27):
can honestly say to Dave wall hedidn't he didn't want me. He didn't
want me. He wanted Reggie Williams, and that was fair, but he
didn't want me, and I feltthat. And the other thing was being
a lottery pick. I didn't knowthe expectations that were put on me because
I didn't put those types of expectationson myself, because I was a guy
(05:49):
that always took his time and gota feel for the game and then did
my thing thereafter. But during thattime, you know, as I got
older, you know, I neverforget I got drafted and they handed me
to number twenty three. Now Ithought it was because I wore thirty two
(06:10):
in college and the number was retiredthat was doctor J's number. But come
to find out years later, butthat wasn't the reason. You know,
that number was given to me forfor me to be like somebody else.
But again I didn't put those typeof expectations on myself. I was a
let the game come to you typeof a guy. But again, if
(06:30):
I had to do it all overover again, I know I would have
been a lot more selfish than whatI was because I know that I could
have scored. I watched myself getbetter each year the three years that I
was in Jersey and the last yearI actually led a team to score.
But again it's it's it's one ofthose things to where I never really felt
(06:50):
welcome. And then on the otherside, I played with great guys that
I just don't know if they knewhow to win once got to a certain
point. Yeah, because I mean, again, we have the draft right
around the corner, and obviously thenarrative is that it's not going to be
a great crop of guys or whatever. But I've always wondered and I think
(07:12):
a lot of the times. Firstof all, I really don't believe in
that term bust because I think atthe end of the day, it's both
parties have some responsibility because if yousee a player and that player doesn't fit
in your system, yeah, hedoesn't fit in your system, and you
should have evaluated him a lot betterand at the end of the day give
(07:36):
him the opportunity. And then,let's be honest, a lot of organizations
don't know how to win, andyou really place the expectations on a rookie
to come in and change the dynamic, and a lot of times that has
to be the perfect storm. Youknow, how did you maintain not letting
(07:56):
him eat to you at eat atyou at the same time not falling into
the trappings of the other players,like, hey, you know, it's
nothing I can do. Both ofthem got to me. I think it
did eat at me. I thinkyou guys have a tough media media market
on that East Coast, and uh, it was one of those things to
work. Again, the expectations wereset by a lot of people, and
(08:20):
I didn't set those I didn't.I didn't. I didn't set those type
of expectations for myself. Had Iif I if I, if I were
able to do it over again,or I had to give a young kid
some advice, I would let themknow exactly what they need to do if
they were in the same situation.And any other thing is too. Man,
is when you're a player that's neverexperienced a lack of confidence and it
(08:43):
and it hits you, I thinkit can be uh something serious. I
think it could be very very serious. And I think that got to me
as well because I let the Ilet the the news. I think I
let the news get to me alittle bit because it's like, hey,
he's supposed to be doing and he'snot doing this, and I'll let that
get to me. And again,I've never experienced that before, so I
(09:05):
didn't know how to deal with that. So it was tough on the side
where I did fall into the trapof the other guys, and then on
the other side of that, itwas one of those things to where hey,
man, they're kind of beating youup a little bit. And I'm
not gonna say I didn't have thickskin, but I've never ever been beaten
up before, so it was hardfor me to deal with. Yeah,
cause you come from the Midwest,yes, you know what I'm saying,
(09:28):
and you're coming from Ohio and yougo to Ohio State and stuff. It
really is a big, big adjustment, and a lot of things factor into
the fact is that in an organization, you know, obviously embracing, like
we look at the Victor one beyond, but he goes to San Antonio where
there's a culture that is established ofexpectations at the same time being very,
(09:50):
very supportive. You leave from there, then you go to Chicago to the
Chicago Bulls, and that's kind ofthe opposites. It's almost like you go
from one extreme to the next.What was that experience like? And obviously
the environment and the expectations immediately shift. And how did you try to fit
in with a team that is obviouslyplaying for championships? I think, you
(10:15):
know, it was one of thosethings to where my third year leading New
Jersey and scoring. But again,we had four coaches in three years.
All right, so now we're dealingwith Bill Fitch and me and myself and
Chris Morris, and we just didn'tin Mookie Blaylock. We just didn't see
eye to eye with Bill Fitch.It was more of him talking about his
(10:37):
Boston Celtics days, Boston Celtics days, versus him trying to figure out how
he's going to coach us, andthat made it tough, so me and
him than CII. But the trade, I think he had a lot to
do with me being traded. AndI really think even though I was told
how Chicago felt about me, becausewhen we played them, I had decent
(11:00):
games against him and I was ableto do a decent job in guarding Michael
Jordan, they made a trade andit was something I'll never forget. Man.
I was at I was doing mybasketball camp here in Toledo, and
they came in and told me orI got a phone call saying that You've
been traded to Chicago. And Iwasn't happy about that. And the reason
(11:22):
I wasn't happy about that was becauseI knew I was going to be playing
behind one of the best players everplayed again, actually the best player to
play the game. Where are theminutes gonna come from? Where the minutes
gonna come from? And you knowthat was tough for me, But I
will say this, man, youknow getting traded there, you know myself,
(11:43):
Scottie and the Horse got drafted together. I knew bj because he played
at our new Stacy King, soI did have people on the team at
Me and Cliff Levingson got traded kindof like the same time, so we
connected very well. But what theydid was they brought a fireback, all
right. They had a They wereon a mission, and they knew exactly
(12:05):
what it was that they were tryingto accomplish. And every day was competitive,
man, it was super super competitive, g and it brought the mojo
back. Even though I didn't playa whole lot of minutes, it brought
the mojo back. It brought itbrought the fireback. How was it with
Michael Jordan on the team and howwas he as a team man? And
what kind of Michael Jordan's story couldyou tell us? You know what?
(12:26):
I can't. You know, it'sfunny because when you watch the Last Last
Dance, a lot of guys felta certain certain kind of way after watching
it. But you know, Ithought when I was there, man,
Mike never caused many problems. Imean he went at me and practice,
we went at each other, butas far as him hitting on me and
(12:46):
doing this and that, like theytried to portray him as being during the
documentary. I mean, he's neverdone that. I thought that he was
very competitive. I thought that theRed team in the White team, they
always talk trashing one another when wewere in there getting our ankles taped before
practice. But again, he's neverever done anything out the ordinary to me
(13:11):
outside to compete. Not one ofthe Michael Jordan's stories that I would say
is is it was funny man,because you know, with him having his
own shoe when we would pull upup up to games or on a row
we would be at games and thebus would pull up and he would see
somebody wearing his shoes. He wouldalways say, keep donating to the Jordan
fun you know. But uh,but outside that man again, we've never
(13:35):
we've never had those type of momentswhere he was being disrespectful, let's put
it that way, like people portrayhim to be in the in the Last
Dance. Yeah, I remember whenyou got traded to or with the Sacramento
and I remember coming up there.I remember see you up there as Sacramento,
(13:58):
and I would say that that youwere part of a team. You
spug web. Mitch Richmond really kindof in a sense started that shift that
continued on with c Web and allof them and really having the support,
because that was the biggest difference inmy opinion. It's not against New Jersey
(14:18):
back then. You know, youguys as competitive as you good could be
and you want to give it all, but the fans were receptive. In
Sacramental, you have this town whojust loved the Kings. Talk about your
experience going to the Sacramento Kings andhow much did it how much did you
take from that experience win an NBAchampionship and being part of the Bulls and
(14:41):
going into Sacramento and being a partof that transition to a team that was
respectable and really not that far frombeing a team that could be in the
playoffs. It was one of thosethings where when I first ate because I
got traded the fourth game into theseason, the fifth game into the the
season for Bobby Hanson in the firstround pick, and you know, I
(15:05):
was excited. I was excited togo. And it's funny because on paper,
you had a lot of great nameson paper. You know, you
talk about Waynemon Tisdale, Mitch Richmondhad just got traded the week before I.
Did you talk about spud web.You talk about Anthony Bonner, you
talk about Lionel Simmons, Pete Chillcut. It was a lot of guys,
Randy Brown, it was a lotof guys that were part of that team
(15:28):
with with with big time names.But again on the flip side of that
drill was you still had that organizationalorganizational structure like New Jersey where they went
through a ton of coaches. Theydidn't know, you know, what was
going on, and he had thisguy want this, another guy wanting that.
(15:48):
You had, you know, inregards to ownership. So it was
hard for us to put it alltogether. But again, I was able
to come from Chicago with a lotof fire, and I was competitive out
there. Man, I never forget. I think I averaged eighteen nineteen minutes
a game, and I averaged overten points a game during the eighteen nineteen
minutes a game that I played.So I kept that fire and practices were
(16:11):
somewhat competitive, not like in Chicago. Again, I think you had some
guys that had been around, eventhough they were younger, they had been
around for a little bit. BecauseI know Lionel, Anthony and Randy Brown,
they all got drafted there you know, again just kind of in that
funk. I'm gonna call it thefunk. That word might be a little
(16:32):
strong, but I'm gonna call itthe funk. And again, just didn't
know how to win, Man,But the names on paper, I mean,
you had a great you had greattalent on paper, just didn't know
how to put it all together towin. But we had a lot.
We had a great time because weall got along. Well. Yeah,
now you're coaching college basketball, andI want to ask you this question before
(16:52):
we wrap up, and really obviouslylooking at the landscape of college basketball to
sum it up in a nutshell,do you ever think and what ben yet,
when do you think we will everreturn to the freshman being the priority
in recruiting as opposed to the twentyfive six year old transfer ortal kid.
(17:15):
I don't know if we ever will, man, I don't know unless the
rule changes again, and I don'tknow if that's gonna happen or not.
And you feel bad for the youngergroup because if they're not a four or
a five star kid, it's probablygonna be tough for him. You know,
I think every level, there's somethingdifferent. On my level, the
nai level, I still get toI still get to coach because you know,
(17:38):
Moneys aren't transferent hands, so Istill get a chance to coach.
On a mid major level. Ifyou coach a kid up and he becomes
pretty decent, the high majors isgonna take him away because you know,
they're able to pay him a littlemore money. So when you talk about
the whole landscape and this nil thingis, it's not even playing grounds.
(18:03):
I mean the high major schools theycan pay more money in the mid major
school so not a mid major schoolsare going to struggle because if I get
a decent player like a ray JohnDennis that played at University of Toledo,
Baylor is gonna come in and takehim, you know. So it's so
it's very very tough, man.And what it does is it puts coaches
(18:26):
in a bad situation now because youon this is on all levels, you
can't build anything because even on ahigh level, high major level, I'm
sorry, if you're not accommodating akid, he's going to say, man,
I'm out of here if you're notgiving me what he wants. And
that has nothing to do with themoney. But if you if you're not
talking to him the what he wantsto be talked to, or he feels
(18:48):
like he's being disrespected, or he'snot playing or he's not playing enough,
or whatever the case may be.Man, they're making it too easy for
these kids. And the coaches arethe ones that you know, you're trying
to build something or develop a culture. It's gonna be tough for him to
do, man, because these kidshave too many options. Yeah, when
you look at it, and obviouslyyou know aspirations you've gotten in this coaching
(19:11):
and stuff, and and and you'reat the NAI level, what is your
goal? What is Dennis Hobson's ultimategoal? From that perspective of coaching?
You know, if I could moveup, I'll move up, man,
But you have to be where yourfeet are? Well haaha, would you
go n b A, No,I mean I'll go. I'll go anywhere
as long as I'm doing what Ilove to do, you know, And
(19:32):
I know the higher the level,the more uh, the more the more
it comes comes with that. Butbut but but again, you know,
I think I enjoy the game.I'm not gonna say I think I know
I enjoy the game and being ableto share a lot of information that would
share to me in the past.So you know, I wouldn't trade what
(19:53):
I'm doing for anything right now,even though I know that it's it's not
the best situation for a lot ofcoaches nowadays. But hey man, I'm
still doing what I love to do, So I'm going to continue to do
it until I get tired of itor I can't do it anymore. What
made you get into coaching? Goingand going backwards? What made you get
into coaching? Oh yeah, Ithink I think again. We can talk
(20:14):
about my New Jersey experiences. Youcould talk about things that I've learned from
all the great coaches that I've beenaround. So why keep that knowledge of
secret? Why not share what wasshared with me and try to help the
young generation, uh, get betterthrough the game of basketball, because it's
not about It's not about basketball,man, It's about what the game can
(20:34):
do for you. Because the gameis short lived, short term and you
hopefully you're going to live a longtime. But there's a lot of lessons,
lessons and things that you can learnthrough the game of basketball. And
you know, you learn I've learned. Everybody that's played they've learned, so
why keep what you've learned a secret? Why not? Why not? Why
not pass that information down to theto the younger group and in hopes that
(20:57):
it's going to help them develop andbecome a real person through the game.
Yeah, if you had an opportunityto speak to this upcoming draft class,
who a lot of don't really havea lot of high expectations or put on
them, it's already a negative associatedwith the fact is that it's not really
(21:17):
a good draft class. What messagewould you give to this class as they
go into this NBA draft? Firstof all, I don't I don't think
you know, Peter, it's funnythat you do. Hear people say it's
not a good draft. You knowwhat, They're getting an opportunity to play
at the highest level. All right, why would you say it's not it's
not a good draft? I mean, I don't know why people say that,
(21:38):
but I think you know, ifif, if if I had to
tell a young person or a youngkid that's about to be drafted, hey
man, you gotta you have togo in there man with a wheel and
and and play with a sense ofurgency, you know what I mean,
because you never know what's going tohappen no matter what, and stay committed
to your craft. I think stayingcommitted to your craft and going in and
(22:02):
learning from the veterans and and anddoing what they want you to do,
and hold yourself to a high regards, because again I think that's one of
the things where you know, bigtime coming out of college. But again
even in college, you know,average five points a game coming out of
school, okay, and then endedup becoming the all time leading scorer.
Why because I just didn't put thosetype of expectations on myself like a lot
(22:27):
of kids today, if you askhim, back up, back up,
back up, you said, youraverage what in high school? Know?
In college? I averaged five pointsa game as a freshman. Oh,
as a freshman as a freshman incollege, and I and I and I
started, I started a lot ofgames because we had a kid become ineligible.
But again when I went there,gee, I didn't have any expectations.
(22:48):
I didn't go in and say Iwas gonna be Big ten player of
the year. I didn't go inand say that I was gonna be a
first round draft pick. I didn'tgo in and say that I was gonna
lead it. I was gonna bethe all time leading scorer. These are
things that I didn't go in doing. So I've always been the type of
guy that, hey, man,you know, take your time and play
your play yourself into the right playyourself up. You don't don't don't go
in being overly aggressive. Same thing. But I would tell kids today,
(23:12):
you know what, if you wantto continue to get paid, you know,
you got to go in there witha sense of urgency. Man,
you know, buy in and dowhat's asking you to do. But don't
be afraid to do what you're capableof doing. And don't be bashful,
you know, go all out anddoing it. Yeah, you know,
I got to give you your flowers, right man, because I know what
(23:32):
I've said this to you on onon the phone, but I tell you
this, man, you know,I really really appreciate your friendship. Yeah,
during the time back then, manthat I admired you, I looked
up to you, you know,from just being suave and just again this
(23:52):
great phenomenal college basketball player and youcome to the NBA and you just dimonstrated
so much humility. What you showedto me. I always appreciate and I
can recall just being able to hangout with you going to Ohio State campus
and I never forget we're sitting upin the arena and we're sitting in there.
(24:18):
It was it Saint John's Arena,right in the summertime, and you
say, Yo, this young manright here, he from my hometown Toledo.
He coming here next year, JimmyJackson. I never forget that,
And it was like, Yo,we were sitting there, and I was
so amazed about just being on campusand just seeing how you maneuver it around
(24:41):
in your own and Columbus Ohio andjust again I always had the almost respect
And I thank you so much becauseyou gave me an image of understanding that
you know, again you don't haveto be a certain way. You could
have a level of humility and yetbe great at what you did. And
(25:03):
you know, I was really disappointedwhen you got traded to Chicago, but
and then coming to see you inSacramento and stuff, but I just always
want you always know, man,I never ever forgot all the humility and
the kindness you showed to me becauseI was a kid, ball boy from
Harlem. Yeah, single parent,household mother, but you know, it
(25:26):
was individuals such as yourself that befriendedme that I learned a lot from that.
At the end of the day.You know, certain things I look
at, I said, man,you know what, I admired that,
And again just just your humility andjust being who you are, down to
earth. And I'm so happy youwant the NBA Championship. I'm glad that
you, you know, coaching nowand touching young people's lives in so many
(25:49):
ways. And you know, evenbefore you came on the show and we
reconnected, always look and see whatyou were doing and stuff with a you
can't team and stuff. But Iappreciate you, man, love you for
that because you know, you showedme a lot of things man, in
positive ways and stuff. And youknow, I definitely appreciate you and always
(26:11):
don't want nothing but the best foryou and your family. Man. Yeah,
Man, I appreciate you as welltoo, g And it means a
lot, man, because you've beenaround a lot of great ones man,
the pat Ewings and as a bombhe's a bomb, no man, and
and and my boy Gerald Wilkins andall them. Man, come on,
man, you've been around some greatguys. Man, So it means a
(26:32):
lot coming from you, because again, I think you were that young man
that you knew what direction you weregoing in at an early age. And
I think that means a lot.A lot of kids today, you know,
they don't know what's gonna happen,and they don't have a plan.
But I think you was that guythat that had a plan. You made,
you made friendships and and and youknow, I see what you're doing,
(26:53):
man, And you have different peopleon your show, so you're still
being respected man, by a lotof the great ones. So it means
a lot coming from you. Socontinue to do your your thing, man,
and stay blessed. Man, keepdoing the right thing. Man.
Taking care of that sun. Man, Well, I got three, I
got two more, all of them. Twenty. I got one twenty five,
(27:14):
get very to be twenty five acouple of weeks, and then the
middle one twenty one, twenty.You know, he's twenty twenty two,
a young one in seventeen getting readyto be eighteen. But all boys,
So you know what, I takecare of mine. But you know,
definitely I appreciate the kindness and humility. Next time you come on my show,
don't be sitting over there drinking likeyou said, David Junior, you
(27:36):
know better than that. You gotyour little nightcap up. Yeah, I'm
grown man, I'm fifty nine yearsold. Man, I will say this.
You were smooth man. I learnedwhat you mean man with them clothes,
what you mean the close day youwere smooth with the honeys too.
I don't want to get you inno trouble because I don't know if you
gotta pass cause if you don't havea top lock key, I don't want
(27:59):
to be responsible for that. Yeah. Yeah, you were smool. You
were at the Apple. You weresmooled. I mean he hey, man,
Pearl, Man Pearl got me likethat, Dwayne, Rest in peace,
Rest in peace. That's right,man, Love you man, I
love you boy, man. Iappreciate you. Okay, Man, let
me know if I can help withsomething. Always the one and all that,
(28:19):
mister Dennis Hopson right here, heavierthe pay
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