August 26, 2024 • 36 mins
Legendary high School/College Coach Gary DeCesare talks about the future of college basketball and the impact of college football. Gary also speaks about why it is time to stop calling all college athletes "Student-Athletes" and the best advice for all high school basketball players that are not a top prospect. Heavy In the Paint
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Uh, you know, coach, when you look at you know,
when you look at obviously we just talked about the times.
If you had some advice that you could offer to
all the families and making this you know, in this
interview and we put it up and want to put
on social media. What is the best advice would you
have for a high school player today that is not
(00:39):
a top two hundred player, but it's a good player
that is looking to go to college. What would be
the best advice you would have for that kid that's
going into his senior year this upcoming year.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's the same thing, same thing I tell my kids
right now today, stop worrying about you know one of
my better players. You so put up and be playing
in a certain you want to play in the circuit,
want to play in the circuit. Well, he got on
a team in another state to go play in the circuit.
I go watch him play, play three minutes. This is
a kid who plays probably starts for me and plays
(01:13):
you know, majority of the game. He played three minutes.
I said, So, you're so happy for playing three minutes
on a circuit just to get a bag, a pair
of shoes and a travel suit. I mean that's what
it's all about. You know, I told all my kids
go to college elite camps. Okay, don't worry about going
(01:36):
to these so called made hoops. And you know the
days of five star basketball and Hoop Group and all that.
You know, those those camps are done with. You know,
those were teaching camps. There's no teaching camps. Now. It's
all about playing hooping, going five on five, up and
down in court. And if you're a point guard, you're
(01:57):
in heaven because you've got the ball in your hands
in ninety nine the time you're gonna shoot it anyway.
So go to a you know, pick a couple of
schools that you think you could play at. You know,
like the kid I was just telling you about, Charles
Bonds is six seven. You know, Cleveland State had a
an elite camp or one day elite camp. And he
went down and drove down with his father. And you know,
(02:20):
I called the coach before ahead of time, and I
said to the coach and I said, de Robert, listen,
I got this kid coming down. You should really look
at him.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
He called me back up. He said, I offered him.
I don't offer them. I don't know if a lot
of players, he said, but I love him, but I
and I offered him. So if you go to these
elite camps, you know, at least you're playing in front
of the college coaches there that are there, and then
you might get that opportunity to get a shot at
(02:50):
that school. You know, if you go to these all
American camps or whatever, nobody knows, I mean, nobody knows,
you know, nobody knows what you're doing. Nobody was your name,
and the coaches ain't even watching them. They don't even
go anymore.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
But you know what you said something that was so
so profound, and I think that obviously that's great.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
The young man got an offer from Cleveland State.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
But my question is do you think he would have
gotten that if you wouldn't have called ahead of time
to let the coach know that he was coming. You know,
relationships with coach, with colleges and stuff like that. You know,
in some of these schools it's about building relationships. And
let's be honest, because of the transport and all this
other stuff, you know, you know they don't have those relationships.
(03:34):
But how much of that do you think really helped?
And obviously his performance really was what's steal the deal? Uh?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, his performance and you could tell he's a good player.
But you know, putting in your two cents beforehand is
definitely going to help. And you know that's why I
tell my kids all the time, if you're going somewhere,
let me know and I'll call ahead and let him
know to you know, at least keep an eye out
for you. You know, I think I've earned that respect. You know.
I can't stand the coaches that call me up and
(04:03):
you know, hey, I've heard this kid is good, you know.
You know, we'd like to recruit them, you know, and
the next question is who else is recruiting them? You
know what My answer is, Kentucky, do U.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
C l A?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I mean, I don't, don't.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Don't.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Don't answer us some moronic question. Who else is recruiting?
Who cares? I mean, you know, seriously, who cares? You know,
I was a college coach for eight years. I couldn't
tell if the players a good player from watching film.
You know, if I didn't see the player on myself,
in my own eyes, I wouldn't recruit them. So that's
the next thing they asked, Well, you got any film? Yeah,
I got tons of film, But what is that gonna do.
(04:36):
You're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna take the film over
my word. You know, a guy who put over two
hundred players on college scholarship, Division one, Division two, you know,
division three, Juko, But you're gonna want to watch you
want to watch film. Get your ass out and come
to the gym and watch them practice. You're going to
take the word over a film of a guy who's
(04:56):
with a kid every day. Now, look at my record too.
I don't have many kids who transferred from colleges. You know,
they've all gone to colleges. Only a handful have made
transfers and they did it for the right reason and
it worked out okay. But most of the kids go
to school and have a great four year career and beyond,
(05:17):
you know, with education and getting jobs from the relationships
that they make. You know, you know, you got to
trust somebody, you know. I mean it's crazy, but you know,
listen to you know, you know these recruiting gurus who
can't bounce the ball, never took a shot in their life.
I mean, you know, where is he ranked. I remember
(05:38):
a college coach telling me I'm not going to recruit
Victor Law because he's not in the top twenty in Chicago. Well,
guess what, that guy's not coaching no more.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I remember, and I don't know if you want to
share this story about his coach, who's probably going to
be all if he's not already a hall of I
was talking about, you know again, he wanted to recruit
Julius Hodge and he was saying all these great things,
and you really just kept it simple.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
It was like, do you want to offer him? And
he said, yeah, he.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Just walked away.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I'm the coach, And why was it?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
How did you?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
You know? And I think you and you really helped
me out, especially going through the recruiting process.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
And talking to coaches.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
How were you able to not get caught up with
the hype and the hoopla and really just make sure
obviously you were out there and what you out there
and what was best for the athlete, the student athlete
and really trying to sugarcoat things. How did you ever
get not get caught up in all that hoopla and
stuff like that and really just kept it simple, if
(06:48):
you're going to offer.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
The young man, If not, we're moving.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, everybody has different pets, and you know all those
guys are coaches and coach too. I mean, there's only
amount of certain ex'es and o's. I mean, you know,
if you don't have let's put it, you know, let's
put it bluntly, if you don't have good players, you're
not gonna be a good coach, right, So you know,
(07:12):
and I say this sincerely. You know, I don't think
there's a difference between me but John cal Perry as
far as ex'es and o's, okay, But you know, other
guys took different paths and got different you know, have
different breaks and got their bricks and you know, went
up the ladder and you know what they you know,
how to do. Everybody has different paths. I wouldn't trade
(07:33):
a second of my life with anybody, but you know,
there's there's only so many ex'es and o's. So I
was never in awe of any college coach and I
met a mall and been around them all and you
know that, and you know it's a conversation. I try
to make it simple. I try to make it where
it's a good fit for the kid. You know. I
(07:55):
know there's certain kids that couldn't play for certain coaches,
you know, and you know I would give the pros
and I would give the cons to the kid and
the family and say, you know, I don't know if
that's gonna work out. You know, I had no you know, uh,
you know skin in the game of where kids went
to school. You know, it didn't matter to me. I
(08:16):
just wanted to be a good fit. And you had
a good opportunity, you know, and you're able to use
the ball to get yourself a college education. And you know,
if you could do that, you know that, then then
it works. So you know, college coaches, you know, you
(08:36):
know they you know, they come and go as you know, quickly.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
But this was a legend. I think. You know what
I'm talking about. I know about yeah, And I won't
call any names because at the end of the day,
it's not about anything.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
But this is a legend.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And you were like, and I was just in awe
because a lot of the times they can just you know,
you're in such an awe, but you're right it. Look,
you know, you know the business, you're around them, and
it actually shows how much they respect you. Even furthermore,
when when you look at I'll ask you De Paul
(09:13):
to Paul University. I don't know if they're on their
newest head coach, and I just have to you know,
I've spoken to so many people, and I'll ask you,
because you coached here at De Paul University, what will
it take for that school to perhaps I won't say
return back to prominence, I mean maybe if you will,
but be a consistent school that can you know, win
(09:37):
games and obviously maybe make the tournament. What will it
take for the school? Because I've had some people that
in Chicago that told me it's not gonna happen. It's
a commuter school.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Be nil.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Stuff just furthermore hurts the school, like the Paul University.
What do you think and what is holding back to
Paul University from being a prominent fixture in the Big.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
East, let alone the Midwest.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Well, you know, I don't The Paul is an interesting place.
You know, it's it's very similar to Saint John's to
be honest with you, same order. You know, uh, you
know that both schools run by the same order. You
know you had a long long time coach and Luke Onnoseca,
(10:25):
you know you had a longtime coach and ray Meyer.
They both been to one Final four. You know, they
both back in the day, you know, you know, got
uh kept able to keep the players home and build
good programs. You know, neither one won a national championship.
(10:46):
You know, the same thing with the Paul was the
way Saint John's was. They didn't have dorms, you know
at first. Now Saint John's does, the Paul does. But
you know, you're in a you know, it's kind of weird.
You're in a you could have a brownstone where the
university owns and there's four kids in there, and right
(11:07):
next door you grab another brownstone where it's just regular
people living.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
So you know, when we're working there and you're getting
you know, phone calls from campus security at twelve o'clock
in the night, the music's too loud, you know, and
you go over there and it's not too loud, it's
just too loud because the people next door don't you know,
didn't want to hear it, you know, And so it's tough.
It's it's tough. I don't think the Paul is ready
(11:34):
for the Big East. You know, they probably should have
stayed where they want conference, say, at the time. But
again they went there for the money. But you know
when we got there, it was the first year they
were going in the Big East, you know. And now
we're talking about the real Big East, not the Big
East today, right, We're talking about when you had Syracuse
(11:55):
and and you know Yukon, well you CON's back, but Syracuse, Yukon,
you know, Pitt, you know all the teams that Cincinnati
and Andsville, Louisville, you know, and you had all you know,
all the shocks and and but you know, being out
in the Midwest, you kind of learned that the Big
(12:18):
Ten is unbelievable conferences because they have campus arenas and
they play on campus and the atmosphere is out of
this world. When the Big East started, you know, all
over their arenas were pro arenas. Really, you know, not
too many people had on campus arenas, and if they did,
they weren't big enough. Right, Villanova had won, but that's
(12:38):
ten thousand. But they played their big games in the
in the in the whatever that's called now wells Fago
or the Spectrum at the time, you know, Saint John's,
you know, they have Connesseeca but with that fit ten
thousand people. But you played your big games in the Garden,
you know, so that feeling st Georgetown. You know, they
have played all their games in the in the Washington's
(12:59):
or you know, so the field was a little different.
You know, it wasn't that college of our atmosphere. So
when we got there in the Big East, and you know,
we're looking at budgets and we're looking at our recruiting
budget and our travel budget, and you know, I'm sitting
there and saying, you know, how you want us to
(13:21):
travel commercial to New York City? And when every team
in the Big East is fly in private jets. I mean,
you know, it's how do you expect us to sell
a recruit that you know we're going to go commercial flights?
You know. So you know, right right away we had
(13:41):
to change the culture there that you know, you know,
if you want to be in the Big East and
you want to play with the big boys, you got
to you know, I remember getting called in the in
the office for we were in New York and we
took the team to the Palms Steakhouse for dinner, okay
for they might be four because you know, you know,
(14:01):
I'm from New York, and the restaurants and you know,
the bill was probably like you know, for our team,
probably like twenty five hundred to you know. And I
turned into receipt and I get called in, well, you
took a team to you know, a steakhouse for dinner.
I said, yeah, you know what when we were walking
(14:22):
in Georgetown was walking out, I mean, so, I mean,
what where do you want us to eat? Donalds? I mean,
you know, they just weren't ready for it, you know,
you you you know, and realize this the biggin You're
going to all the big cities, right, so everything is
more expensive. You find in New York, you know New
York hotels, you know the breakfast buffet and the New
(14:45):
York hotels like seventy five dollars a head for scrambled eggs, bacon,
and you know I'm talking before you know, the talk
about now I could imagine what it is now. It's
probably one hundred and twenty five dollars a person for
breakfast now time. But you know, they just run ready
for it and they could have won this year. When
(15:07):
they were searching for a coach, I made it very
clear to a couple of the boosters who they should hire.
There was one guy out there who could have fixed
that program and got them winning right away, right away.
And they all agreed with me, but they couldn't get it.
It communicated the right way to the ad who was
one guy out there, one guy who was Bob Huggins.
(15:29):
Bob Huggins, he was the guy. He was the guy
who could have took that university and won this year. Really, yes, yeah,
because he could stand total told with every coach in
Abigist you know you got you know, well let me Yeah.
I love Chris Holtman. He's a really good guy. But
(15:50):
he had all the resources in the world to win
in Ohio state. So now you go to the poland
no resources. How are you gonna win that?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
You know. I I mean, look, Pat Kennedy had some
success there, and obviously it came out later he had
to play by a different set of rules.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
But I look at the school and I'll ask you this.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You know, when you look at a school like Providence, right,
Providence is very small, and you know, for whatever it is,
you know, somehow this small institution, like if you visit
their school, it's a typical Division three school set up
where I mean, I think it's almost like it's under
(16:33):
fifteen thousand people on campus.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I mean it's a very.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Very small school, but yet you know, obviously deep pockets to.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Be a.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Big East school. What do you think has been their
success to be able.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
To and I mean granted on campus housing means a
lot coach, but Providence is a very small institution and
you know, they've gone in some great, great head coaches
and they've always just been a very very repetible program
that obviously you know, Kim English is there now, he's
been able to have some success there.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
But what has been the key to their success from
your standpoint.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, it's it's a get away from the city, you know,
it's it's it's a getaway from you know, the kids
in the city who could go away and have the
little college life and you know, versus being on you know, well,
Saint John's is more of a campus these days now
than than what it used to be. But you know,
(17:36):
and that's the problem with the Paul. It's not really
a campus. Is spread out through an exclusive area called
lin Can Park where every brown start. You know, it's
over a million dollars, you know, so you know it's
tough for kids too, you know, you know, I don't
know's I had a player who just went there, transferred there,
(17:57):
and then transferred out. You know, it's it's it's tough.
It's just it's just tough on you know, a young
man today. And you know, in the in the in
in that kind of situation, you know that sometimes it's
better just to go away and get away from the
hustle and bustle of the city. And and you know,
(18:20):
you would say the struggle is keeping the local kids home, right, yeah,
in all those places, you know, I mean, how did
ray Meyer do it? And how did uh, you know,
Luke Honosecond keep him home? You know, back then in
the day, it was a little different. Saint John's and
had dorms, so you were able to pay the kids,
you know, some money and that was like gold. Yeah,
(18:40):
but you know they were supposed to pay you know,
the rent and all that with that money. But they
also got free apartments on top of it. You know that,
you know, that was the the plus that they had
to to keep the kids, so they were able to
you know, live in these apartments and still get the
money to pay you know, the rent. Yeah, that was
(19:01):
I guess a little bit of an attraction for them. Yeah,
back in the day, but they were able you know
now for school like that. The formula you know, I
don't know what the formulas. I would have sent the
formulas to get a couple of kids who were from
the city who did that experience, went away, didn't like it.
You want to transfer to come back home.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Well, that's what's happening now. And then it's in il.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I mean, you know, if you can get a kid
and you know it's to the highest bidder, I mean,
you know, it's just a wild while west, and I
mean it doesn't look like you like you said earlier,
it doesn't look like it's getting any better. A couple
more questions before I let you get on that, and
always appreciate the time when you look at the AAU scene,
(19:45):
and I've often wondered, you know, and granted and I've
asked you in the past. I thought it was such
a genius move that I'm surprised that other high school
coaches haven't done this, where yes, you had all these
different AAU programs, but you didn't have I think Frederick
(20:06):
Douglas and Mangum coach Mangum, I can't remember his first name.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Pat Mingham was the.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Only other high school coach that I knew that said
I'm going to keep my kids together and we're going
to play together in the summer, even if you're not coaching.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Them, you're going to be on this program.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Now, Jimmy Salmon did something like that, but Jimmy was
later on a high.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
School coach, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
But for the New York standpoint, I've often wondered, especially
now where you you know, obviously, look, you don't have
the big flux of the you know, the sneak of
money is not as prevalent as it once was. You know,
why do you think a lot of the high school
coaches don't just organize their own AAU program and just
(20:58):
basically delegate the coach responsibilities to the assistant coaches and
now you keep your kids together and allow them to
be able to compete certain things and really oversee their
growth and development.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
The circuit. They all want to play in the circuit,
you know. And again, you know, I've seen some coaches
out here try to do it. You know, Michael Irvin
with ken Wood tried to do it. Be the high
school coach and you know, be an AU coach. And
there's one thing I learned when I did it, because
when I first started it, I coached it my first year.
(21:33):
You can't you can't do both. You can't do both,
you know. I was. I was fortunate enough to find
very good guys that I trusted in Artie, yourself, Sarge, Dick,
d and on and on and on where you had
good people, and you know, I just went along for
the ride. I was the general manager, and I enjoyed
(21:55):
booking the flights and hotels and you know, eating and
sitting there watching them. But these guys now are trying
to and it's also a problem with high schools that
principals and ads are hiring AU coaches to coach high
school programs. It doesn't work. You're either a high school
(22:17):
coach or you're going to be an AU coach. You
can't be both. They're trying to be both. It takes
a toll on you. It takes a toll on the kids.
The kids need new voices that you know, you can't
just be the same voice and the kids year year,
all year round. And I've seen programs, you know, hurt themselves,
just like the Illinois File is one of the best
(22:39):
AU programs in the country. You know, their program is
not what it used to be anymore. Why because Michael
is now coaching at ken Wood. Okay, he has ken
Woods High School program and mc gorven Fire and they
both have you know, lessened in both areas, in the
(22:59):
high school level and then the eighty level. You know,
same thing with Mean Streets. Ty Street wanted to be
a high school coach. Now he's a high school coach. Okay, Well,
Mean Streets is not Mean Streets anymore, and where he's coaching,
they're not you know, what they should be at either.
So pick one be a high school coach, be a
high school coach, one being AU coach, being a U coach.
(23:20):
You know, I just don't think it worked. I lucked
out because I saw it and I said, I can't
do this and I don't want to do it, you know,
and you know when I was able to get old
you guys to do it, it just it just worked out.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
It was an amazing run and I still say that it's
one of the greatest runs in New York City in
terms of AAU programs. And you know, not to throw
any shade, I think New Heights is an unbelievable program.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
But you know, again they looked.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
At sort of that blueprint and you know, just being
in that situation, the talent that came out of the
New York Ravens, it was again right up there with
all of the elite.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Programs, and you know, to see something.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Like that, just very curious that it's never been replicated.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And two more questions, and and and the other thing
that it's hard to do is it's money. You know,
back then now then all this money.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Now you don't have the shoe money, I mean, right,
And that's right, And that's why I thought it would
be more something prevalent now because look, DNAs is not.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Giving them money, Nike is Nike is not given the money.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
So if you're doing these things, it kind of goes
back to, like, you know, everybody's on sort of even footing,
why not just keep the kids because it's only all
so many kids that can play with the wrens, the Gauchos,
you know, riverside, some of the you know, the top
tier programs that may have a shoe company attached to them, but.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
If it's somebody, somebody has to go out and raise
the money to do it. You know, to take a
team today, you know, you know, Vegas was great back
in the day because it was cheap. Yeah, you cat
you get hotel rooms for twenty nine thirty nine dollars
a night, you know. Now, you know, it's like you
could feed the whole team. We used to go to
those buffets, the Flamingo and all those. You know, you
(25:10):
feed a team for nine to ninety nine a person.
Now you know, you're talking forty five dollars a person night.
Hotels are you know, two hundred dollars a night. Rent
the van is you know, cost you a thousand dollars.
You know, to bring a team of twelve kids to
Las Vegas now would cost you twenty thousand dollars. Yeah,
and back in the day we could probably do it
(25:31):
for eight nine thousand dollars. You know. Flights were you know,
two hundred bucks. Now flights six hundred bucks. So somebody
has well on fundraise. You know, it's you don't have
any launchers, and you don't have the low dominteros of
the world, you know that just funded themselves. You know,
I was fortunate enough to be able to you know,
(25:51):
raise the money. You know back then with you know,
some people that I knew, and but you know, like
I said, it's a lot of work to do that.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, it works, and it pays off the last two questions.
I know, I said last two right here. So you
know what, Gary, this message will go out. You have
parents that want to know how do they get that
kid into college? And how do they get that kid
that puts into work, that's doing all these things? And
might you know, be in a situation where again that
(26:22):
high school coach really doesn't know all the ins and out.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
What the best advice would you have for those kids?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
You got to keep grinding, you know, you just got
to work. You know, you got to put in the time.
You know, one of my famous lines now to these
kids is you don't have a clue or understand the
next level. You have no idea what it takes, what
it takes to be a college athlete. There's a book
(26:52):
out there that I bought. There's a college athlete who
wrote a book about how his experience as a college athlete.
And I bought about twenty copies and started giving them
my kids and tell them to read it. And you know,
they just don't have a clue, you know, and what
they don't understand is no matter where they go, whether
(27:14):
it's Division two, Division three, junior college, Division two, Division one,
those coaches, that's their livelihood, that's how they feed their family, right,
So they want to win. So they're coaching. Just like
I said before, there's so many ex's and o's they're coaching,
(27:35):
you know, like you know, if it was Tayshevsky a duke,
you know, they're coaching to win. They're doing the same
exact things. They're lifting weights, they're conditioning, they're running, they're
watching film, they're doing individual instructions, they have study halls.
These kids have no idea about any of that stuff,
none of it, you know. And you know, for parents,
(27:57):
you know, I just say, you know, get your kids
to college camp, you know, elite camps and go there
and you know, try to play in front of college coaches.
For high school coaches today, young high school coaches, you know,
you know, we all say Gerald that the kids have changed.
I really don't think the kids have changed. I think
the coaches have changed. I think coaches are afraid to
(28:20):
coach kids too, because if they don't do it the
way they wanted to do it, the kids leave and
the coaches rather coach the stars than coach other kids.
To me, I just want to coach kids. I don't
care who they are. You know, don't change, you know,
don't don't be afraid to coach your kids. Don't be
afraid to get your kids. You know. But you know,
(28:41):
I know it's you know, we're in a you know,
different type of world. But you know, you could do
it without throwing chairs and you know, yelling and cursing
kids out. You could still do it. You could still
be make kids, you know, put in the time and
you know, but there's a different way you got to
do it now. Yeah, you know, I don't. I really
(29:06):
believe kids kids that are saying I really do. I
think coaches have changed dramatically.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Well in high school now. I think especially in New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I think they had a rule that was in place
that you could transfer to another school, uh and not
sit out. I think that was kind of the you know,
something that was in place because of COVID, so you know,
it's filtering down. I think you could transfer once to
a school and not have to sit out.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I coached in Florida for three years. There's no transfer
down there. You go to one high school and play
football seasons over, go to high school and play basketball,
and when that season's over going no high school and
play baseball, you know, and not sit out at all.
And that's the way it's going to go. You know,
there's no transfer room in college. It's going to be
in high school now. You know. One of the problems is,
(29:56):
you know, and I heard that there's a bill on
the floor from the House of Representatives to abolish high
school associations across the country. You know that there are two.
You know that their rules are don't you know, are
not you know, obviously liberal enough, but you know the rules.
You know, why why would you deny a kid if
(30:17):
you go to one school and doesn't like him once
to go to another kid another school. Why does he
have to sit out? You know they're starting to question that.
Why why does he have to sit out? You know,
kids do make mistakes, they go to the wrong place. Well,
why can't he go somewhere else and play? I agree
with that, you know, I don't think this should be
a transfer. You know, most of the rules in these
(30:37):
state associations, you know, hurt you know, like here in Illinois,
you know, we're starting school, there's a fall there's one
hundred fall leagues. But we're not with the coach. So
what's the purpose of rule? Why can we coach our kids?
I mean, so I got to get some I can't
even okay, say the head coach can't coach. I live
(31:00):
with that. But nobody that's on your staff, paid or
volunteer can coach a kid at a season. You know,
in the summertime, New York was different. New York can
coach your kids all year around. I mean, you know,
there's no really different periods. In Illinois, you can only
coach your kids twenty five days. Why why can't I
(31:22):
coach them every day? I mean, if I could get
five kids to come to my gym and get off
the streets of Chicago and come in the gym and
we could work out, why can't I do that? What?
You know, because all these rules were made for multiple
sport kids twenty years ago, you know, the kids who
played two or three sports. Well, guess what, every you know,
(31:42):
we blame basketball. Every sport's not like that. No more, okay,
kids and that every sports all year around. Now football
they have seven and seven, soccer, you know, kids play
all year around baseball. We have kids going down to
Florida every weekend they're going to play and tourt them
and starting the winter. I mean, it's all all sports
all the year around now, So you know, why can't
(32:05):
we coach our kids? Then we want to say why
we don't have any control over our kids because we
lose them today? You coaches, because we can't coach them
because we're bound by these rules.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, it's it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Last question before I'll let you get on out of here.
You know you you you've had so many experiences, and
you obviously had a taste in the college ranks, and
knowing this landscape with nil transfer portal.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Would you ever want to go back and coach in college?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And if so, Nope, unless it was for one of
my former players. Okay, if one of my fun.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
To tell me, if.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Temple University say hey we want you, we wouldn't go
there as a head coach?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
No? Absolutely no, unless I could unless I could hire
three of my former players with me.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Well you can hire yeah, you got hi or whoever.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I'd rather go work with one of my former players
and be the what do you call that?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Now?
Speaker 2 (33:06):
The special assistant to the head coach and just guide
them and help them have success. You know that that's
what you know, that would be great. But I always
said the purest form of coaching is in high school.
That's where you make a difference in kids' lives, you know.
And and you know, I always thought my forte was
(33:28):
to help kids get to the next level. But now
the rules, you can't. You know, it's so hard. It's
hard to even do that. And that's why you're seeing
a lot of very good high school coaches and a
lot of great college coaches getting out of the game.
You know why you think Jay Wright got out of it?
Why do you think Bayond? You know those guys, you know,
you want to coach kids who are making more money
(33:49):
in your assistant coaches. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's
it's it's you know, how do you do that? You know?
We maybe we should just all realize they were all professionals. Now,
well that's what that's what that's that's what it is.
But we don't say that. Yeah, it's it's but it's
(34:09):
it's it's just you know, and I don't have a
solution for it. I don't know any how it could
be fixed. I just don't know how it's gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Maybe if it happens to crash and burn, I think
that's when it looks at and you know.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
What, we can start all over.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
And then it's getting individuals such as yourself to have
tremendous input. Coaches always, you know, I appreciate you and
love you because you know, again the impact that you
had on my life and just being able to be
in your presence and listen and learn and learn about
the game, but also just to enter out intermakings and
(34:47):
the out of workings of you know, the recruiting process,
and just what you have done for so many of
the young men that you coached, specifically at Saint Raymond's
High School, New York Ravens. The impact of your program, Uh,
it was tremendous. And you know, forming the relationships that
I have with Sarge, you know, Alreadie Green, the late
(35:08):
Great Big d you know, so many guys and stuff
like that. It was a blast and it was so
difficult that once it was over, it was like, you
know what, nothing else could compare to it. So I
always salute you. I look forward to doing this again
and definitely getting you on Mad Dog and stuff, because
we also got to talk about the Yankees and hopefully
(35:29):
you come in into town and in New York, especially
during the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah. Absolutely, man, let's go Yankees. We do.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Long.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
We are Doe and we better. We better look, you know,
across the subway there in the metso, you know, making
one of these historical runs.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yes, indeed, Gary decies.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
I really appreciate Gerald and they're doing great things out there.
And you know I love you guys too, love you,
and you know, keep grinding. Yes, when I'm driving in
my car at three o'clock in the afternoon, I'll here
instead of three o'clock in the morning. Well you know what,
You'll be there.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Hey listen, he's a man and definitely look forward to
doing it again.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Absolutely, Thank you. Have a good one.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
You do the same. Hurry the sees it, joining me
right here, heavy in the pain.
Uh, you know, coach, when you look at you know,
when you look at obviously we just talked about the times.
If you had some advice that you could offer to
all the families and making this you know, in this
interview and we put it up and want to put
on social media. What is the best advice would you
have for a high school player today that is not
(00:39):
a top two hundred player, but it's a good player
that is looking to go to college. What would be
the best advice you would have for that kid that's
going into his senior year this upcoming year.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's the same thing, same thing I tell my kids
right now today, stop worrying about you know one of
my better players. You so put up and be playing
in a certain you want to play in the circuit,
want to play in the circuit. Well, he got on
a team in another state to go play in the circuit.
I go watch him play, play three minutes. This is
a kid who plays probably starts for me and plays
(01:13):
you know, majority of the game. He played three minutes.
I said, So, you're so happy for playing three minutes
on a circuit just to get a bag, a pair
of shoes and a travel suit. I mean that's what
it's all about. You know, I told all my kids
go to college elite camps. Okay, don't worry about going
(01:36):
to these so called made hoops. And you know the
days of five star basketball and Hoop Group and all that.
You know, those those camps are done with. You know,
those were teaching camps. There's no teaching camps. Now. It's
all about playing hooping, going five on five, up and
down in court. And if you're a point guard, you're
(01:57):
in heaven because you've got the ball in your hands
in ninety nine the time you're gonna shoot it anyway.
So go to a you know, pick a couple of
schools that you think you could play at. You know,
like the kid I was just telling you about, Charles
Bonds is six seven. You know, Cleveland State had a
an elite camp or one day elite camp. And he
went down and drove down with his father. And you know,
(02:20):
I called the coach before ahead of time, and I
said to the coach and I said, de Robert, listen,
I got this kid coming down. You should really look
at him.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
He called me back up. He said, I offered him.
I don't offer them. I don't know if a lot
of players, he said, but I love him, but I
and I offered him. So if you go to these
elite camps, you know, at least you're playing in front
of the college coaches there that are there, and then
you might get that opportunity to get a shot at
(02:50):
that school. You know, if you go to these all
American camps or whatever, nobody knows, I mean, nobody knows,
you know, nobody knows what you're doing. Nobody was your name,
and the coaches ain't even watching them. They don't even
go anymore.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
But you know what you said something that was so
so profound, and I think that obviously that's great.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
The young man got an offer from Cleveland State.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
But my question is do you think he would have
gotten that if you wouldn't have called ahead of time
to let the coach know that he was coming. You know,
relationships with coach, with colleges and stuff like that. You know,
in some of these schools it's about building relationships. And
let's be honest, because of the transport and all this
other stuff, you know, you know they don't have those relationships.
(03:34):
But how much of that do you think really helped?
And obviously his performance really was what's steal the deal? Uh?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, his performance and you could tell he's a good player.
But you know, putting in your two cents beforehand is
definitely going to help. And you know that's why I
tell my kids all the time, if you're going somewhere,
let me know and I'll call ahead and let him
know to you know, at least keep an eye out
for you. You know, I think I've earned that respect. You know.
I can't stand the coaches that call me up and
(04:03):
you know, hey, I've heard this kid is good, you know.
You know, we'd like to recruit them, you know, and
the next question is who else is recruiting them? You
know what My answer is, Kentucky, do U.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
C l A?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I mean, I don't, don't.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Don't.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Don't answer us some moronic question. Who else is recruiting?
Who cares? I mean, you know, seriously, who cares? You know,
I was a college coach for eight years. I couldn't
tell if the players a good player from watching film.
You know, if I didn't see the player on myself,
in my own eyes, I wouldn't recruit them. So that's
the next thing they asked, Well, you got any film? Yeah,
I got tons of film, But what is that gonna do.
(04:36):
You're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna take the film over
my word. You know, a guy who put over two
hundred players on college scholarship, Division one, Division two, you know,
division three, Juko, But you're gonna want to watch you
want to watch film. Get your ass out and come
to the gym and watch them practice. You're going to
take the word over a film of a guy who's
(04:56):
with a kid every day. Now, look at my record too.
I don't have many kids who transferred from colleges. You know,
they've all gone to colleges. Only a handful have made
transfers and they did it for the right reason and
it worked out okay. But most of the kids go
to school and have a great four year career and beyond,
(05:17):
you know, with education and getting jobs from the relationships
that they make. You know, you know, you got to
trust somebody, you know. I mean it's crazy, but you know,
listen to you know, you know these recruiting gurus who
can't bounce the ball, never took a shot in their life.
I mean, you know, where is he ranked. I remember
(05:38):
a college coach telling me I'm not going to recruit
Victor Law because he's not in the top twenty in Chicago. Well,
guess what, that guy's not coaching no more.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I remember, and I don't know if you want to
share this story about his coach, who's probably going to
be all if he's not already a hall of I
was talking about, you know again, he wanted to recruit
Julius Hodge and he was saying all these great things,
and you really just kept it simple.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
It was like, do you want to offer him? And
he said, yeah, he.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Just walked away.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I'm the coach, And why was it?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
How did you?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
You know? And I think you and you really helped
me out, especially going through the recruiting process.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
And talking to coaches.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
How were you able to not get caught up with
the hype and the hoopla and really just make sure
obviously you were out there and what you out there
and what was best for the athlete, the student athlete
and really trying to sugarcoat things. How did you ever
get not get caught up in all that hoopla and
stuff like that and really just kept it simple, if
(06:48):
you're going to offer.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
The young man, If not, we're moving.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, everybody has different pets, and you know all those
guys are coaches and coach too. I mean, there's only
amount of certain ex'es and o's. I mean, you know,
if you don't have let's put it, you know, let's
put it bluntly, if you don't have good players, you're
not gonna be a good coach, right, So you know,
(07:12):
and I say this sincerely. You know, I don't think
there's a difference between me but John cal Perry as
far as ex'es and o's, okay, But you know, other
guys took different paths and got different you know, have
different breaks and got their bricks and you know, went
up the ladder and you know what they you know,
how to do. Everybody has different paths. I wouldn't trade
(07:33):
a second of my life with anybody, but you know,
there's there's only so many ex'es and o's. So I
was never in awe of any college coach and I
met a mall and been around them all and you
know that, and you know it's a conversation. I try
to make it simple. I try to make it where
it's a good fit for the kid. You know. I
(07:55):
know there's certain kids that couldn't play for certain coaches,
you know, and you know I would give the pros
and I would give the cons to the kid and
the family and say, you know, I don't know if
that's gonna work out. You know, I had no you know, uh,
you know skin in the game of where kids went
to school. You know, it didn't matter to me. I
(08:16):
just wanted to be a good fit. And you had
a good opportunity, you know, and you're able to use
the ball to get yourself a college education. And you know,
if you could do that, you know that, then then
it works. So you know, college coaches, you know, you
(08:36):
know they you know, they come and go as you know, quickly.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
But this was a legend. I think. You know what
I'm talking about. I know about yeah, And I won't
call any names because at the end of the day,
it's not about anything.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
But this is a legend.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And you were like, and I was just in awe
because a lot of the times they can just you know,
you're in such an awe, but you're right it. Look,
you know, you know the business, you're around them, and
it actually shows how much they respect you. Even furthermore,
when when you look at I'll ask you De Paul
(09:13):
to Paul University. I don't know if they're on their
newest head coach, and I just have to you know,
I've spoken to so many people, and I'll ask you,
because you coached here at De Paul University, what will
it take for that school to perhaps I won't say
return back to prominence, I mean maybe if you will,
but be a consistent school that can you know, win
(09:37):
games and obviously maybe make the tournament. What will it
take for the school? Because I've had some people that
in Chicago that told me it's not gonna happen. It's
a commuter school.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Be nil.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Stuff just furthermore hurts the school, like the Paul University.
What do you think and what is holding back to
Paul University from being a prominent fixture in the Big.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
East, let alone the Midwest.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Well, you know, I don't The Paul is an interesting place.
You know, it's it's very similar to Saint John's to
be honest with you, same order. You know, uh, you
know that both schools run by the same order. You
know you had a long long time coach and Luke Onnoseca,
(10:25):
you know you had a longtime coach and ray Meyer.
They both been to one Final four. You know, they
both back in the day, you know, you know, got
uh kept able to keep the players home and build
good programs. You know, neither one won a national championship.
(10:46):
You know, the same thing with the Paul was the
way Saint John's was. They didn't have dorms, you know
at first. Now Saint John's does, the Paul does. But
you know, you're in a you know, it's kind of weird.
You're in a you could have a brownstone where the
university owns and there's four kids in there, and right
(11:07):
next door you grab another brownstone where it's just regular
people living.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
So you know, when we're working there and you're getting
you know, phone calls from campus security at twelve o'clock
in the night, the music's too loud, you know, and
you go over there and it's not too loud, it's
just too loud because the people next door don't you know,
didn't want to hear it, you know, And so it's tough.
It's it's tough. I don't think the Paul is ready
(11:34):
for the Big East. You know, they probably should have
stayed where they want conference, say, at the time. But
again they went there for the money. But you know
when we got there, it was the first year they
were going in the Big East, you know. And now
we're talking about the real Big East, not the Big
East today, right, We're talking about when you had Syracuse
(11:55):
and and you know Yukon, well you CON's back, but Syracuse, Yukon,
you know, Pitt, you know all the teams that Cincinnati
and Andsville, Louisville, you know, and you had all you know,
all the shocks and and but you know, being out
in the Midwest, you kind of learned that the Big
(12:18):
Ten is unbelievable conferences because they have campus arenas and
they play on campus and the atmosphere is out of
this world. When the Big East started, you know, all
over their arenas were pro arenas. Really, you know, not
too many people had on campus arenas, and if they did,
they weren't big enough. Right, Villanova had won, but that's
(12:38):
ten thousand. But they played their big games in the
in the in the whatever that's called now wells Fago
or the Spectrum at the time, you know, Saint John's,
you know, they have Connesseeca but with that fit ten
thousand people. But you played your big games in the Garden,
you know, so that feeling st Georgetown. You know, they
have played all their games in the in the Washington's
(12:59):
or you know, so the field was a little different.
You know, it wasn't that college of our atmosphere. So
when we got there in the Big East, and you know,
we're looking at budgets and we're looking at our recruiting
budget and our travel budget, and you know, I'm sitting
there and saying, you know, how you want us to
(13:21):
travel commercial to New York City? And when every team
in the Big East is fly in private jets. I mean,
you know, it's how do you expect us to sell
a recruit that you know we're going to go commercial flights?
You know. So you know, right right away we had
(13:41):
to change the culture there that you know, you know,
if you want to be in the Big East and
you want to play with the big boys, you got
to you know, I remember getting called in the in
the office for we were in New York and we
took the team to the Palms Steakhouse for dinner, okay
for they might be four because you know, you know,
(14:01):
I'm from New York, and the restaurants and you know,
the bill was probably like you know, for our team,
probably like twenty five hundred to you know. And I
turned into receipt and I get called in, well, you
took a team to you know, a steakhouse for dinner.
I said, yeah, you know what when we were walking
(14:22):
in Georgetown was walking out, I mean, so, I mean,
what where do you want us to eat? Donalds? I mean,
you know, they just weren't ready for it, you know,
you you you know, and realize this the biggin You're
going to all the big cities, right, so everything is
more expensive. You find in New York, you know New
York hotels, you know the breakfast buffet and the New
(14:45):
York hotels like seventy five dollars a head for scrambled eggs, bacon,
and you know I'm talking before you know, the talk
about now I could imagine what it is now. It's
probably one hundred and twenty five dollars a person for
breakfast now time. But you know, they just run ready
for it and they could have won this year. When
(15:07):
they were searching for a coach, I made it very
clear to a couple of the boosters who they should hire.
There was one guy out there who could have fixed
that program and got them winning right away, right away.
And they all agreed with me, but they couldn't get it.
It communicated the right way to the ad who was
one guy out there, one guy who was Bob Huggins.
(15:29):
Bob Huggins, he was the guy. He was the guy
who could have took that university and won this year. Really, yes, yeah,
because he could stand total told with every coach in
Abigist you know you got you know, well let me Yeah.
I love Chris Holtman. He's a really good guy. But
(15:50):
he had all the resources in the world to win
in Ohio state. So now you go to the poland
no resources. How are you gonna win that?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
You know. I I mean, look, Pat Kennedy had some
success there, and obviously it came out later he had
to play by a different set of rules.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
But I look at the school and I'll ask you this.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You know, when you look at a school like Providence, right,
Providence is very small, and you know, for whatever it is,
you know, somehow this small institution, like if you visit
their school, it's a typical Division three school set up
where I mean, I think it's almost like it's under
(16:33):
fifteen thousand people on campus.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I mean it's a very.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Very small school, but yet you know, obviously deep pockets to.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Be a.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Big East school. What do you think has been their
success to be able.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
To and I mean granted on campus housing means a
lot coach, but Providence is a very small institution and
you know, they've gone in some great, great head coaches
and they've always just been a very very repetible program
that obviously you know, Kim English is there now, he's
been able to have some success there.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
But what has been the key to their success from
your standpoint.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, it's it's a get away from the city, you know,
it's it's it's a getaway from you know, the kids
in the city who could go away and have the
little college life and you know, versus being on you know, well,
Saint John's is more of a campus these days now
than than what it used to be. But you know,
(17:36):
and that's the problem with the Paul. It's not really
a campus. Is spread out through an exclusive area called
lin Can Park where every brown start. You know, it's
over a million dollars, you know, so you know it's
tough for kids too, you know, you know, I don't
know's I had a player who just went there, transferred there,
(17:57):
and then transferred out. You know, it's it's it's tough.
It's just it's just tough on you know, a young
man today. And you know, in the in the in
in that kind of situation, you know that sometimes it's
better just to go away and get away from the
hustle and bustle of the city. And and you know,
(18:20):
you would say the struggle is keeping the local kids home, right, yeah,
in all those places, you know, I mean, how did
ray Meyer do it? And how did uh, you know,
Luke Honosecond keep him home? You know, back then in
the day, it was a little different. Saint John's and
had dorms, so you were able to pay the kids,
you know, some money and that was like gold. Yeah,
(18:40):
but you know they were supposed to pay you know,
the rent and all that with that money. But they
also got free apartments on top of it. You know that,
you know, that was the the plus that they had
to to keep the kids, so they were able to
you know, live in these apartments and still get the
money to pay you know, the rent. Yeah, that was
(19:01):
I guess a little bit of an attraction for them. Yeah,
back in the day, but they were able you know
now for school like that. The formula you know, I
don't know what the formulas. I would have sent the
formulas to get a couple of kids who were from
the city who did that experience, went away, didn't like it.
You want to transfer to come back home.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Well, that's what's happening now. And then it's in il.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I mean, you know, if you can get a kid
and you know it's to the highest bidder, I mean,
you know, it's just a wild while west, and I
mean it doesn't look like you like you said earlier,
it doesn't look like it's getting any better. A couple
more questions before I let you get on that, and
always appreciate the time when you look at the AAU scene,
(19:45):
and I've often wondered, you know, and granted and I've
asked you in the past. I thought it was such
a genius move that I'm surprised that other high school
coaches haven't done this, where yes, you had all these
different AAU programs, but you didn't have I think Frederick
(20:06):
Douglas and Mangum coach Mangum, I can't remember his first name.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Pat Mingham was the.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Only other high school coach that I knew that said
I'm going to keep my kids together and we're going
to play together in the summer, even if you're not coaching.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Them, you're going to be on this program.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Now, Jimmy Salmon did something like that, but Jimmy was
later on a high.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
School coach, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
But for the New York standpoint, I've often wondered, especially
now where you you know, obviously, look, you don't have
the big flux of the you know, the sneak of
money is not as prevalent as it once was. You know,
why do you think a lot of the high school
coaches don't just organize their own AAU program and just
(20:58):
basically delegate the coach responsibilities to the assistant coaches and
now you keep your kids together and allow them to
be able to compete certain things and really oversee their
growth and development.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
The circuit. They all want to play in the circuit,
you know. And again, you know, I've seen some coaches
out here try to do it. You know, Michael Irvin
with ken Wood tried to do it. Be the high
school coach and you know, be an AU coach. And
there's one thing I learned when I did it, because
when I first started it, I coached it my first year.
(21:33):
You can't you can't do both. You can't do both,
you know. I was. I was fortunate enough to find
very good guys that I trusted in Artie, yourself, Sarge, Dick,
d and on and on and on where you had
good people, and you know, I just went along for
the ride. I was the general manager, and I enjoyed
(21:55):
booking the flights and hotels and you know, eating and
sitting there watching them. But these guys now are trying
to and it's also a problem with high schools that
principals and ads are hiring AU coaches to coach high
school programs. It doesn't work. You're either a high school
(22:17):
coach or you're going to be an AU coach. You
can't be both. They're trying to be both. It takes
a toll on you. It takes a toll on the kids.
The kids need new voices that you know, you can't
just be the same voice and the kids year year,
all year round. And I've seen programs, you know, hurt themselves,
just like the Illinois File is one of the best
(22:39):
AU programs in the country. You know, their program is
not what it used to be anymore. Why because Michael
is now coaching at ken Wood. Okay, he has ken
Woods High School program and mc gorven Fire and they
both have you know, lessened in both areas, in the
(22:59):
high school level and then the eighty level. You know,
same thing with Mean Streets. Ty Street wanted to be
a high school coach. Now he's a high school coach. Okay, Well,
Mean Streets is not Mean Streets anymore, and where he's coaching,
they're not you know, what they should be at either.
So pick one be a high school coach, be a
high school coach, one being AU coach, being a U coach.
(23:20):
You know, I just don't think it worked. I lucked
out because I saw it and I said, I can't
do this and I don't want to do it, you know,
and you know when I was able to get old
you guys to do it, it just it just worked out.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
It was an amazing run and I still say that it's
one of the greatest runs in New York City in
terms of AAU programs. And you know, not to throw
any shade, I think New Heights is an unbelievable program.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
But you know, again they looked.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
At sort of that blueprint and you know, just being
in that situation, the talent that came out of the
New York Ravens, it was again right up there with
all of the elite.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Programs, and you know, to see something.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Like that, just very curious that it's never been replicated.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And two more questions, and and and the other thing
that it's hard to do is it's money. You know,
back then now then all this money.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Now you don't have the shoe money, I mean, right,
And that's right, And that's why I thought it would
be more something prevalent now because look, DNAs is not.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Giving them money, Nike is Nike is not given the money.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
So if you're doing these things, it kind of goes
back to, like, you know, everybody's on sort of even footing,
why not just keep the kids because it's only all
so many kids that can play with the wrens, the Gauchos,
you know, riverside, some of the you know, the top
tier programs that may have a shoe company attached to them, but.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
If it's somebody, somebody has to go out and raise
the money to do it. You know, to take a
team today, you know, you know, Vegas was great back
in the day because it was cheap. Yeah, you cat
you get hotel rooms for twenty nine thirty nine dollars
a night, you know. Now, you know, it's like you
could feed the whole team. We used to go to
those buffets, the Flamingo and all those. You know, you
(25:10):
feed a team for nine to ninety nine a person.
Now you know, you're talking forty five dollars a person night.
Hotels are you know, two hundred dollars a night. Rent
the van is you know, cost you a thousand dollars.
You know, to bring a team of twelve kids to
Las Vegas now would cost you twenty thousand dollars. Yeah,
and back in the day we could probably do it
(25:31):
for eight nine thousand dollars. You know. Flights were you know,
two hundred bucks. Now flights six hundred bucks. So somebody
has well on fundraise. You know, it's you don't have
any launchers, and you don't have the low dominteros of
the world, you know that just funded themselves. You know,
I was fortunate enough to be able to you know,
(25:51):
raise the money. You know back then with you know,
some people that I knew, and but you know, like
I said, it's a lot of work to do that.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, it works, and it pays off the last two questions.
I know, I said last two right here. So you
know what, Gary, this message will go out. You have
parents that want to know how do they get that
kid into college? And how do they get that kid
that puts into work, that's doing all these things? And
might you know, be in a situation where again that
(26:22):
high school coach really doesn't know all the ins and out.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
What the best advice would you have for those kids?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
You got to keep grinding, you know, you just got
to work. You know, you got to put in the time.
You know, one of my famous lines now to these
kids is you don't have a clue or understand the
next level. You have no idea what it takes, what
it takes to be a college athlete. There's a book
(26:52):
out there that I bought. There's a college athlete who
wrote a book about how his experience as a college athlete.
And I bought about twenty copies and started giving them
my kids and tell them to read it. And you know,
they just don't have a clue, you know, and what
they don't understand is no matter where they go, whether
(27:14):
it's Division two, Division three, junior college, Division two, Division one,
those coaches, that's their livelihood, that's how they feed their family, right,
So they want to win. So they're coaching. Just like
I said before, there's so many ex's and o's they're coaching,
(27:35):
you know, like you know, if it was Tayshevsky a duke,
you know, they're coaching to win. They're doing the same
exact things. They're lifting weights, they're conditioning, they're running, they're
watching film, they're doing individual instructions, they have study halls.
These kids have no idea about any of that stuff,
none of it, you know. And you know, for parents,
(27:57):
you know, I just say, you know, get your kids
to college camp, you know, elite camps and go there
and you know, try to play in front of college coaches.
For high school coaches today, young high school coaches, you know,
you know, we all say Gerald that the kids have changed.
I really don't think the kids have changed. I think
the coaches have changed. I think coaches are afraid to
(28:20):
coach kids too, because if they don't do it the
way they wanted to do it, the kids leave and
the coaches rather coach the stars than coach other kids.
To me, I just want to coach kids. I don't
care who they are. You know, don't change, you know,
don't don't be afraid to coach your kids. Don't be
afraid to get your kids. You know. But you know,
(28:41):
I know it's you know, we're in a you know,
different type of world. But you know, you could do
it without throwing chairs and you know, yelling and cursing
kids out. You could still do it. You could still
be make kids, you know, put in the time and
you know, but there's a different way you got to
do it now. Yeah, you know, I don't. I really
(29:06):
believe kids kids that are saying I really do. I
think coaches have changed dramatically.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Well in high school now. I think especially in New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I think they had a rule that was in place
that you could transfer to another school, uh and not
sit out. I think that was kind of the you know,
something that was in place because of COVID, so you know,
it's filtering down. I think you could transfer once to
a school and not have to sit out.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I coached in Florida for three years. There's no transfer
down there. You go to one high school and play
football seasons over, go to high school and play basketball,
and when that season's over going no high school and
play baseball, you know, and not sit out at all.
And that's the way it's going to go. You know,
there's no transfer room in college. It's going to be
in high school now. You know. One of the problems is,
(29:56):
you know, and I heard that there's a bill on
the floor from the House of Representatives to abolish high
school associations across the country. You know that there are two.
You know that their rules are don't you know, are
not you know, obviously liberal enough, but you know the rules.
You know, why why would you deny a kid if
(30:17):
you go to one school and doesn't like him once
to go to another kid another school. Why does he
have to sit out? You know they're starting to question that.
Why why does he have to sit out? You know,
kids do make mistakes, they go to the wrong place. Well,
why can't he go somewhere else and play? I agree
with that, you know, I don't think this should be
a transfer. You know, most of the rules in these
(30:37):
state associations, you know, hurt you know, like here in Illinois,
you know, we're starting school, there's a fall there's one
hundred fall leagues. But we're not with the coach. So
what's the purpose of rule? Why can we coach our kids?
I mean, so I got to get some I can't
even okay, say the head coach can't coach. I live
(31:00):
with that. But nobody that's on your staff, paid or
volunteer can coach a kid at a season. You know,
in the summertime, New York was different. New York can
coach your kids all year around. I mean, you know,
there's no really different periods. In Illinois, you can only
coach your kids twenty five days. Why why can't I
(31:22):
coach them every day? I mean, if I could get
five kids to come to my gym and get off
the streets of Chicago and come in the gym and
we could work out, why can't I do that? What?
You know, because all these rules were made for multiple
sport kids twenty years ago, you know, the kids who
played two or three sports. Well, guess what, every you know,
(31:42):
we blame basketball. Every sport's not like that. No more, okay,
kids and that every sports all year around. Now football
they have seven and seven, soccer, you know, kids play
all year around baseball. We have kids going down to
Florida every weekend they're going to play and tourt them
and starting the winter. I mean, it's all all sports
all the year around now, So you know, why can't
(32:05):
we coach our kids? Then we want to say why
we don't have any control over our kids because we
lose them today? You coaches, because we can't coach them
because we're bound by these rules.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, it's it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Last question before I'll let you get on out of here.
You know you you you've had so many experiences, and
you obviously had a taste in the college ranks, and
knowing this landscape with nil transfer portal.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Would you ever want to go back and coach in college?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And if so, Nope, unless it was for one of
my former players. Okay, if one of my fun.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
To tell me, if.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Temple University say hey we want you, we wouldn't go
there as a head coach?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
No? Absolutely no, unless I could unless I could hire
three of my former players with me.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Well you can hire yeah, you got hi or whoever.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I'd rather go work with one of my former players
and be the what do you call that?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Now?
Speaker 2 (33:06):
The special assistant to the head coach and just guide
them and help them have success. You know that that's
what you know, that would be great. But I always
said the purest form of coaching is in high school.
That's where you make a difference in kids' lives, you know.
And and you know, I always thought my forte was
(33:28):
to help kids get to the next level. But now
the rules, you can't. You know, it's so hard. It's
hard to even do that. And that's why you're seeing
a lot of very good high school coaches and a
lot of great college coaches getting out of the game.
You know why you think Jay Wright got out of it?
Why do you think Bayond? You know those guys, you know,
you want to coach kids who are making more money
(33:49):
in your assistant coaches. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's
it's it's you know, how do you do that? You know?
We maybe we should just all realize they were all professionals. Now,
well that's what that's what that's that's what it is.
But we don't say that. Yeah, it's it's but it's
(34:09):
it's it's just you know, and I don't have a
solution for it. I don't know any how it could
be fixed. I just don't know how it's gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Maybe if it happens to crash and burn, I think
that's when it looks at and you know.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
What, we can start all over.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
And then it's getting individuals such as yourself to have
tremendous input. Coaches always, you know, I appreciate you and
love you because you know, again the impact that you
had on my life and just being able to be
in your presence and listen and learn and learn about
the game, but also just to enter out intermakings and
(34:47):
the out of workings of you know, the recruiting process,
and just what you have done for so many of
the young men that you coached, specifically at Saint Raymond's
High School, New York Ravens. The impact of your program, Uh,
it was tremendous. And you know, forming the relationships that
I have with Sarge, you know, Alreadie Green, the late
(35:08):
Great Big d you know, so many guys and stuff
like that. It was a blast and it was so
difficult that once it was over, it was like, you
know what, nothing else could compare to it. So I
always salute you. I look forward to doing this again
and definitely getting you on Mad Dog and stuff, because
we also got to talk about the Yankees and hopefully
(35:29):
you come in into town and in New York, especially
during the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah. Absolutely, man, let's go Yankees. We do.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Long.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
We are Doe and we better. We better look, you know,
across the subway there in the metso, you know, making
one of these historical runs.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yes, indeed, Gary decies.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
I really appreciate Gerald and they're doing great things out there.
And you know I love you guys too, love you,
and you know, keep grinding. Yes, when I'm driving in
my car at three o'clock in the afternoon, I'll here
instead of three o'clock in the morning. Well you know what,
You'll be there.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Hey listen, he's a man and definitely look forward to
doing it again.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Absolutely, Thank you. Have a good one.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
You do the same. Hurry the sees it, joining me
right here, heavy in the pain.
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