November 26, 2024 • 27 mins
Helping Save Spokane: Not In My Backyard.
A NonStop Local Exclusive Podcast. NonStop Local KHQ's Sean Owsley sits down with Morgan Ashley to talk about Spokane's Homeless Crisis.
A NonStop Local Exclusive Podcast. NonStop Local KHQ's Sean Owsley sits down with Morgan Ashley to talk about Spokane's Homeless Crisis.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, I'm Sean Alsey and welcome to the ongoing
series of NonStop Local KHQS podcast discussing Spokane's homelessness crisis.
This podcast is being recorded with a live audience through
our new local online community cord. Welcome to those joining
through coord Please feel free to text questions. Let's get started.
(00:20):
Most degree, there needs to be support for those who
find themselves experiencing homelessness. The issue though, where does that happen?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
If I'm going to be super honest, I would be
pretty hesitant to have this in my backyard. We have
to clean garbage out of flower beds.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So how do we come together for our solution.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
It's going to take neighbors actually being willing to lean
in together.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Good it afternoon, everyone, Welcome to the non Stop Local
CAHQ podcast and special welcome to everybody joining us live
on cored. Really, it is a voice for you to
weigh in on the key issues of our time. And
weighing in this afternoon with me is Morgan Ashley, one
of our anchors here at cage Q. Morgan, good to
have you with us.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I'm glad to be here too. This is a really
important topic. We've been really focusing on homelessness this last month,
and there's been a lot of questions around this, So
this kind of gives us an opportunity to answer some
of those questions and talk more in depth about what
we've been covering.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So for the past month, we've been looking at all
angles of really what is the key issue of our
time homeless crisis in our downtown core and in other neighborhoods.
And there is a new push by the city to
go away from the one large shelter model to a
scattered model that is supported by Mayor Lisa Brown and
(01:32):
some other city leaders. And that's what you looked into.
First of all, just set the stage on your assignment
as a reporter on that piece of this puzzle, how
you went about it, who you talked to.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, So it really starts with a new administration, right.
Mayor Lisa Brown was elected into office, and she conducted
this audit through her office about how we're dealing with
the homelessness crisis. And what they found is that a
large shelter model is not conducive to our homeless population.
They determined they thought this is not meeting the needs
of the people that are living on our streets and
(02:05):
so what they came up with, and they call it
cost effective, as you've talked with Mary Lisa Brown as well,
but smaller scattered sites around town twenty to thirty people,
twenty to thirty beds where they can really hone in
and focus on people's needs, whether that be medical, mental health,
whatever the case may be. So they're trying to move
toward this model, admittedly slowly, it's not up to the
(02:27):
speed they want it to be. There's two shelters currently open.
One of those was a winter emergency shelter last year,
so it wasn't stood up as the scattered site model,
and that's the one we really focused on when we
went and shot this story. So I think it's a
work in progress, but it was really interesting to see
how much work goes into opening these scattered sites.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I went out and shot an interview recently with maryor
Lisa Brown that will be airing here going forward on
non stop Local CAHQ. So these your report and my interview,
they kind of are hand in glove totally. I know
the mayor told me that the Track shelter which she
closed going into winter, which she knew she was going
to be criticized for We talked about that. She called
(03:08):
that a quote money pitch. She said, the minute she
came into office, she got a bill for a million dollars.
She goes it was not financially sustainable. Her position on
that and that they were moving to this scattershite shelter
model in conjunction working with nonprofits and churches. Yeah, to
connect to people where they are right and then hopefully
(03:32):
get that safety net under them. I know, you talked
to a business owner in the Northwest quadront of town,
and then you talked to people that are organizing the
shelter there, just kind of go in to detail on
what they told you where they're at on this issue.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah. So, because this was a winter shelter, the way
it was set up was obviously it was for temporary
shelter last winter when it was really cold, and then
at some point they decided this was going to be
our first scattered site model. I think the neighbors I
spoke to there were really frustrated with the fact that
this was stood up without their knowledge. They some of
them say it was six to seven months before they
(04:11):
even had a flyer on their door about the shelter
being there, and all they knew was they saw people
congregating and then they would see like ems and police
responding a lot. The process that I'm told from here
on out will be Empire Health. So basically they're being
contracted by the city. They'll go around identify these sites
and then first talk to the community, go to the
(04:31):
neighborhood council. If it's a church, as you mentioned, which
that's the majority of the space. They've been talking to
our churches, getting congregations on board first, and then going
through the process of finding a provider, which is also
labor intensive, and then whenever we're going to open, here's
the funds. All that other stuff has to come together.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
The business owner that you talk too, he was frustrated
in that interview so that he's had to go out
pick up garbage and other things. My takeaway from watching
that interview and watching your report was he was also
compassionate on the issue. That is an interesting conflicting dynamic
for him, but I think it's a microcosm of how
(05:11):
everybody feels about this. Talk about what he told you
when it comes to, you know, being compassionate about other
human beings and at the same time being frustrated as
a business owner, because I think that sums up what
we have heard over and over and mirrored in our community.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well, it's just that conflicted, right, So he wants to
be compassionate, but then at the same time doesn't want
it outside his door. And he admitted that that's conflicting.
That doesn't make sense, right. So it was really interesting
talking to him because he's like, listen, Admittedly, I get
to go home at night. This is not where I sleep,
this is not where my family plays. This is where
I go to work and I get to go home.
(05:47):
So it's a nine to five issue for him, which
I thought good on him to admit, right, But yeah,
he said, you know, he said he never had an
issue with anybody at that shelter specifically, but he said,
there is this problem that followed with it, and I
don't know. He couldn't even directly identify or these homeless
people connected to those getting services at the shelter, but
(06:08):
he said, regardless, the timing is there. We've cleaned up garbage,
we've cleaned up human waste, We've had electrical lines cut
outside of our building because people are using outlets.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
They're tapping into the electricity and stealing it, right.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
And he's like, that's never that had never been an
issue before the shelter was here. So he sees both
sides of it. And honestly, neighbors felt the same way
that even the ones I talked to off camera that
didn't want to talk on camera, all of them said,
we know this is an issue. We're not ignorant to
the problem. We don't want it at our neighborhood, right,
(06:43):
So what neighborhood does it go in?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Well, I think that leads me to my next question.
In your report, you touch base with Empire Health. Yeah,
the mayor told me directly, Empire Health is the lynchpin
of the scattered shelter model, right, They are really the
ground ze if you will, and they want to take
this on she feels strongly. And she told me, which
(07:05):
you'll see and report later on this week, that behavioral
health resources is the key to unlock what no city
has been able to solve. Yeah, at this time, behavioral health,
Empire Health. That piece of your report, What did they
(07:25):
tell you, what was important to him? What stood out
to you.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
In that well? Empire heal's all about health equity, right,
that's their mission. So it's kind of a no duh
that they would be involved in this in a lot
of ways. But I think there, I think they didn't. Honestly,
my take from talking with Zeke, who's very dedicated to
the cause, lives in the neighborhood of the scattered site
that we profiled. The heart is there. I don't think
(07:51):
that they realized how much warkness was going to be
as anybody would, right, And he admitted, I'm going to
be totally honest. He said this to me, are not
on board. This community is not on board with this.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
That was my takeaway from there too. And she's stressed
that this has to be all area leaders, right, Valley
county leaders, law enforcement, political leaders. I know in Boise
they do have a unified voice, and they have an
efficient strategy and it has teeth. It's working in Boise
because Republicans and Democrats and the sheriff they are all
(08:26):
they've gotten in a room, they've gotten together, they unify
that message. I know that's a challenge here, that's a hurdle.
And he mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, no, he said, it's I mean they are working
on behalf of the city, right, they've been contracted to
do this, they're being paid three hundred and fifty thousand
dollars to do this work. And he just admitted. He's like, hey,
this is work that's not happening fast, you know, which
is on our side of the thing of this journalism
getting people to admit things like that is really it's
(08:56):
not like I went digging for it, you know what
I mean? Like it was really nice that he just
was up run about it. This is the reality of
the work. We're ready to take it on and just
admitting that it's not This has not been an easy process.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Let me ask you then, because you touched on something
that I have noticed and it's in fairly recent memory.
They're starting to be a complete candor yeah, a complete transparency,
whether they're frustrated and they've been immersing awhile, whether they
just look at it as this daunting mountain they have
(09:28):
to climb, or this huge hurdle that they truly don't
have a solution on how to overcome that hurdle, right,
So they're just being and I think that communication piece,
you're starting to see absolute transparency. I think that's where
it starts. And you picked that up from him.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
That was exactly. I mean he was like that on
the phone when I talked to him prior, and you know,
wanting to set the story up, and then in person
on camera, completely honest. And I think to your point,
I think it's nobody has the one solution. Nobody's figured
it out.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Really.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I mean we can we point to boys they have
a system, but they haven't solved the issue.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
They haven't solved the issue at all. They've made some progress.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Right, So I think everybody's on board that there's not
one solution. We're all just trying to figure it out.
And just admitting that it takes a lot of work
is just being honest, because that's what this is.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So what did he tell you? What is the plan
of action for his organization?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So right now they're in talks with I think three
or four different sites, most of them churches because a
lot of the congregations are not showing up in person
like they used to, so they have a lot of
unused space. They sometimes they'll have bathrooms. You know, these
sites need to have certain things. The one that we
went to had an off site like portable showers and
(10:42):
stuff like that. So you need to finding space is
their biggest issue right now, he said, So they're talking
with churches, they're in neighborhood councils. I mean they're having
like chili with you know, neighborhoods. I mean they're doing
boots on the groundwork right now. But it seems like
he's like, we're just hitting walls with questions, and we
want to answer all the questions. It just takes a
lot of time.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Did he have an idea on how you break down
those walls? It's a similar question that I asked you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think it was the same as how we conducted
business when we shot this interview, as being honest about
it and asking what are your questions? How can I
help you feel better about this? What can I answer?
I'm not going to nothing's off off, you know, there's
nothing we can't talk about. Essentially, It's kind of how
he framed it. He's willing to answer any question anybody has.
It's just there's a lot of questions.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
The mayor told me that, you know, right now, it's
we have to get everybody at the same table, and
I think that has been a challenge. That's something that
echoed in the interview. You did with Zeke. Yeah, is
there is there are some that want to participate in
the blame game or they want to point fingers about
somebody that's doing something wrong. I don't know if you
asked seek this, but I did ask the mayor directly.
(11:50):
I said, how, as leader of the city, do you
break down that communication wall? Yeah? Do you get people
to the table to have a sobering conversation so you
can come up with unified strategy.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Well that's where he was like, we have a meal
with them. We meet on a human level. We have
a meal with them, and we talk with them. And
then he said also, you know he encourages people to
go to these shelters and volunteer. I mean, he volunteered
in the shelter that's in his neighborhood near Garland, and
he's like, I think if people see it firsthand, the
work that's being done, that breaks down the fear barrier.
Not everybody's going to do that, right, But that was
(12:25):
his recommendation is I'm going to sit down, I'm going
to have a meal with these people. We're going to
talk it out, and then I'm going to encourage them
to show up. If you want to be a part
of the solution.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Please show up one to ten. What's his level of
optimism with the scattered shelter model.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I think he's about an eight, I would say, I
think very optimsic. Think yes, And I think it goes
back to the behavioral health needs and the special medical
needs that people have, and I think they specialize in
that work, you know what I mean. So he's feeling
confident in that.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
I do want to look at our cordboard and if
you have a question, and you're on court and you're
watching us right now live, please send your question. If
we can answer it, we certainly will at least have
a conversation about it. Ava Clarkson writing in thank you
for taking the time to talk about this important issue.
So Ava, thanks for being on board listening to what
is really the key conversation that is being had in
(13:20):
so many different circles. Whether it's behavioral health, whether it's political,
whether it's law enforcement. Everybody is having this conversation in
their own silos, and I think it's a matter of
getting everybody into that same room. You were told that
by Zeke, I was told that by the mayor. I
was told that by Chief Kevin Hall, who I recently interviewed.
Chief says, you know, people think we should just go
(13:41):
and pull them off the street. He goes, the way
the law is structured in Washington State right now, if
it's a low level offense, we buy law, have to
cite and release. So it's just an evolving problem the
business owners, why can't you do something? The Chief said,
they're looking to make legislation a little bit stronger so
(14:02):
they can do some other things that they're unable to
do right now. Right but again, Ava, thanks for weighing
in on cord for us and for making that statement.
We appreciate you being with us. Anybody else that's watching
right now, Morgan, as we move forward the scatter shape model,
scattered site model, they're looking at the churches, they're looking
(14:24):
at nonprofits, they're looking at smaller places in each quadrant
of the city. Yeah, the mayor said, the big warehouse model,
there's anonymity. You don't know who's come through, you can't
connect them to services, you can't follow up on it.
That was her take on that building these out. It's
going to take time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I think to your point too, talking about the Chief
and what he said, there's a few officers I've spoken
with too, and I think these scattered sites are by
referral only. That's a really important part to point out
because it's not like a shelter where you can just
show up, knock on the door and want in. And
from the police perspective, I think they're a little frustrated
by that because they they say some of that I've
(15:05):
talked to is that they'll make these referrals, but the
shelters are full, or that person doesn't want to show up,
So there's so many obstacles to getting into one of
these twenty to thirty bed shelters. Even though the mayor
believes that's the solution. You're not just walking up and
knocking on the door.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well now, and it's not like they can look to
other cities that have implemented this scattered site model. What
stood out to me in my conversation with the mayor
and with the chief is nobody's really done this before,
the smaller scattered site models that you reported on, And
she said, you know, we're pioneering this, we're trying it,
(15:44):
we're looking for a different solution. Or the business owner
that you talked to, yeah, did they ultimately come away
with it's a struggle for me. It's a frustration for me,
but we also have to give this a chance. Or
were they against it? What was their stance or were
you able to even defer that?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah? No, I mean at the end of the interview,
his last kind of closing thought was, I am open
to this dialogue. I want to have this conversation. We
didn't have this conversation for this shelter, so it was
really specific to that shelter. But I think his thought
was if this had been brought on board to the
entire community beforehand, maybe this neighborhood specifically would have been
(16:26):
on board and supportive. But because of how it was
brought online that specific site, I think there's still some.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Tension, and I think that is going to be the
feeling for a while until it's proven that they can
exist in those neighborhoods. Yeah, and the business owners are
protected somewhat, And that is all tentacles of a plan
that's in its infancy right now. And the mayor told me,
I asked, how's this funded? And she goes, when I
(16:56):
came into office, I reached out for funding a state level.
He goes, we secured that funding, and she goes, she
is trying to come up with a model that is
financially sustainable. She said the Track shelter, they were dumping money.
It wasn't a financially sustainable model. She's also gotten huge
pushback on that. Not everybody agrees with the scattered site model.
(17:20):
So this is all playing out in our community right now.
Where it goes, No one has that answer. They are
shifting to something that hasn't been tried. There are critics
of it, heavy critics of it. It's a wait and
see on whether it gains traction and it makes an impact.
The mayor told me point blank she didn't want to
(17:43):
put a timeline on it. She goes, a year from now,
you're going to see a noticeable difference on the homeless
issue on our streets and getting people off the streets.
I said, how soon could somebody see a positive turn
on something that has been so frustrating for many Yet
people are still super humane and compassionate that these are
human beings that have fallen on hard times. What stands
(18:05):
out to me is every single person that is out
there without a home is out there for a unique
reason in their own individual path that broke down and
they ended up on the streets. So I think context
is important for that. Yeah, just your bottom line take
away on where we're at, where you see this going,
based on what you learn and the people you talk to.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
To be honest, I was very surprised at the compassion.
That shocked me a little bit, just based off of
being from here and seeing the evolution of homelessness in
our city, even just from a couple of years ago.
I think people are starting to realize what you just said,
these are human beings and clearly we haven't found the solution.
(18:49):
Like if you've been looped in at all, you know,
in any degree, you realize that this is a problem
that obviously is not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Well, it's an internal dialogue in each and every individual
that calls this area. They're frustrated. They drive downtown, they're frustrated.
Business owners are at their wits end. Their financial bottom
line is razor thin. Somebody breaks their storefront window. That
really can make or break your business totally. So what
about the business owner, But what about the compassionate piece.
(19:18):
What about the people that are addicted to fentanyl. I
know fentanyl is a big driver of this, there's a
big push to combat that ventanyl coming into the area,
because when they're hooked on fentanyl, it even reasoning and
rationale goes out the window. And then it's just drug
addiction that you're trying to treat. That's first and foremost
to get them stable. So there's so many layers and
(19:38):
it's such a complex issue, and I think this is
the conversation of our time. This is the conversation that
our area leaders have to have. This is a conversation
that we in the media need to have, and we
need to cover these stories. I'm really proud of your
story and the other stories that we've done this November
because they've gone into a further depth and detail that
(19:59):
the media necessarily hasn't done. This is a different level
of depth and detailed layer, and I think we have
an obligation in the big picture of the issue of
our time of talking to the people that are making
the decisions, talking to the people that are living and
breathing it from different vantage points, coming up with different
(20:20):
solutions and different ideas, and at that point applying what
you're learning, and also providing layered, detailed, deep information to
everybody that trusts us as a media source. You think
all of those things have to come together as one.
There has to be some unification. There has to be
clear communication, which based on people you talk to, based
(20:43):
on the number of interviews I've done, not just in
recent memory, but over the years, there is a barrier
of communication between all of the parties that need to
be unified. Come up with a strategy, then apply that strategy,
make it efficient, and make it effective totally.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And another part I want to pull up to and
I'm going to pull my email just so I get
the numbers correctly. But everybody wants to ask about money,
as you kind of you talked about the money from
the legislature, So the specific dollars that are going to
these scattered sites from the city. So it's three point
nine million from the legislature, and then one point eight
million from American Rescue Plan Act. And then like I said,
(21:21):
Empire Healths taking three hundred and fifty thousand dollars and
then that money flows through them to the providers. Just
because that's state money, that doesn't mean that's not our
tax payer dollars. I think that that's what people get
hung up on too, is well, how much are we
funding this? How much have we already put toward this.
The city's going to tell obviously that this is all
state money that they're funding these through. That's still money
(21:41):
we're paying. So that's also a big part of this too.
You know, the track shelter was a million dollars right
when she walked in. I mean, that's a lot of money.
So we also have to factor in are we willing
to solve this crisis? I mean, I don't know what
it is long term over you know, say ten years
to live in Spokane and pay for them. You know,
what does that look like. I think that's a big
(22:02):
concern for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I think your instinct on that and your gut checker
on that is spot on. It's people want it fixed. Well,
you're going to have to contribute in some way. Every
single person that lives here and calls in the Northwest
home has to contribute in some way, whether it's financially
and it's tax money, whether it's volunteering, whether I mean,
there are so many ways this needs to be put
(22:25):
under the microscope and magnified. We need to and I
know that some city leaders and area leaders have looked
to success stories in other cities. Yeah, there's been some tracks,
and we mentioned in Boise, there's been some inroads made
in Houston. Yeah, there's been some inroads made in San Diego.
And Chief Hall recently traveled over to Seattle looked at
(22:45):
their DAT program where they are having some tangible results
for the better. So I know they're looking at everything. Again,
many of the interviews I've done, they've told me point blank,
nobody solved this at this time. Yeah, this is something
that it's different that we're trying the scattered shelter model
that you reported.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
On, and I think if maybe homelessess doesn't directly affect you,
or it's not in your neighborhood, the money part is
the hook, Right, You're paying for it as a taxpayer.
You're paying for it, so then you should automatically care.
That's your investment. So I think that we're going to
see in the next five to ten years, hopefully some
change because of that motivating factor.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I would hope, And just on an emotional level for me,
I was born here, you're from here. Yeah, it has
changed so much, it's transformed, and it's kept me awake.
How does this get solved? These are humans. How do
we help them and at the same point protect our city,
protect the business owners, protect the people that want to
take their family downtown that maybe are a little more
(23:47):
reluctant to go downtown because of the adverse situation down there.
But on an emotional level, that's where it gets me sometimes. Yeah,
and you have to be compassionate, but you also have
to be willing to add to the equation in a
positive way to come up with a solution.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, And you know you touched on feanyl. That's something
I've been I've been heavily involved with, you know, spoke
Annaly and some feentanyel education and that is a big
piece of this, right as drug use or just mental
it all correlates, right. And if you talk to the sheriff,
John Doles about it, you know, his daughter obviously went
through treatment for fetanyl and we shared that story with us,
(24:32):
and his stance on it is that people sometimes need
to be forced into treatment, right.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, his story, You've you know, sat down with his
daughter and he's shared with me. We've had just very
candid conversations about it. I have some familiar experience with
drug addiction too, and so I've lost a brother as well,
and it all goes in and I think Sheriff Knowles
is He's like, you know, I'm not going to let
(25:00):
my loved one go. These are people's loved ones, whether
they're a strange, whether they have no idea where they are.
This is a reality of our time. The fentanyl piece,
I know there's pushback. The mayor told me they're doubling
down resources on pushing back on the fentanyl coming in here.
I've done numerous in depth interviews with the District Attorney
(25:23):
of Eastern Washington. I know the fentanyl flow comes up
basically from Mexico through Oregon, through the Tri Cities and
then right into central Washington and then over here to
our area, and they're looking to push back on that
and fly back on that. There's a concerted effort to
push back on that trail of fentanyl that's coming up
into our state and really our entire region. Whether you're
(25:43):
listening in Washington or Idaho or Oregon, it's happening. And
so there's a big pushback on that piece as well.
We've how long we've been talking here, almost a half hour.
There are so many layers. I mean, this is just
the tip of the iceberg of the conversation. It really is,
and so it shows you thirty minutes in, there are
so many different things to talk about. We're going to
(26:04):
continue to have this conversation. Morgan. I thank you for
being here and sharing your insights and your reporting. And
you know it just wasn't the one report. You've been
immersed on this like I have, and talking to the
people that are making the decisions that hopefully will transform
people's lives, people that are home with their lives for
the better, but transform our area for the better for
(26:26):
everybody that lives here.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, and like you said, it's going to take everybody
coming together on it.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
It is.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
So I think we're getting closer talking to all of
our area leaders, but there's still work to be done.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well, appreciate your reporting, appreciate your time on the podcast.
Thanks for being here. Of course got to be here,
and thanks to all of you that joined us on
cord and watched at home or wherever you are on
your phone. We appreciate that such an important conversation and
just appreciate you being on this podcast helping save Spokane
not in my backyard. Additional podcasts on this issue are
available on your favorite podcasting app or at NonStop Local
(26:59):
dot com. If you're interested in joining live events for
our podcast, this is we're creating this all together. We
want to have a conversation not just in this room,
but with you at home, wherever you're in earshot of
this conversation because it's so important. Wherever you want to
join us for live events, you can sign up by
going to Chordspokane dot com. Thanks so much on behalf
(27:22):
of Morgan Ashley. I'm Sean Alesley. Thanks for being with us.
Hello everyone, I'm Sean Alsey and welcome to the ongoing
series of NonStop Local KHQS podcast discussing Spokane's homelessness crisis.
This podcast is being recorded with a live audience through
our new local online community cord. Welcome to those joining
through coord Please feel free to text questions. Let's get started.
(00:20):
Most degree, there needs to be support for those who
find themselves experiencing homelessness. The issue though, where does that happen?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
If I'm going to be super honest, I would be
pretty hesitant to have this in my backyard. We have
to clean garbage out of flower beds.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So how do we come together for our solution.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
It's going to take neighbors actually being willing to lean
in together.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Good it afternoon, everyone, Welcome to the non Stop Local
CAHQ podcast and special welcome to everybody joining us live
on cored. Really, it is a voice for you to
weigh in on the key issues of our time. And
weighing in this afternoon with me is Morgan Ashley, one
of our anchors here at cage Q. Morgan, good to
have you with us.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I'm glad to be here too. This is a really
important topic. We've been really focusing on homelessness this last month,
and there's been a lot of questions around this, So
this kind of gives us an opportunity to answer some
of those questions and talk more in depth about what
we've been covering.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So for the past month, we've been looking at all
angles of really what is the key issue of our
time homeless crisis in our downtown core and in other neighborhoods.
And there is a new push by the city to
go away from the one large shelter model to a
scattered model that is supported by Mayor Lisa Brown and
(01:32):
some other city leaders. And that's what you looked into.
First of all, just set the stage on your assignment
as a reporter on that piece of this puzzle, how
you went about it, who you talked to.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, So it really starts with a new administration, right.
Mayor Lisa Brown was elected into office, and she conducted
this audit through her office about how we're dealing with
the homelessness crisis. And what they found is that a
large shelter model is not conducive to our homeless population.
They determined they thought this is not meeting the needs
of the people that are living on our streets and
(02:05):
so what they came up with, and they call it
cost effective, as you've talked with Mary Lisa Brown as well,
but smaller scattered sites around town twenty to thirty people,
twenty to thirty beds where they can really hone in
and focus on people's needs, whether that be medical, mental health,
whatever the case may be. So they're trying to move
toward this model, admittedly slowly, it's not up to the
(02:27):
speed they want it to be. There's two shelters currently open.
One of those was a winter emergency shelter last year,
so it wasn't stood up as the scattered site model,
and that's the one we really focused on when we
went and shot this story. So I think it's a
work in progress, but it was really interesting to see
how much work goes into opening these scattered sites.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I went out and shot an interview recently with maryor
Lisa Brown that will be airing here going forward on
non stop Local CAHQ. So these your report and my interview,
they kind of are hand in glove totally. I know
the mayor told me that the Track shelter which she
closed going into winter, which she knew she was going
to be criticized for We talked about that. She called
(03:08):
that a quote money pitch. She said, the minute she
came into office, she got a bill for a million dollars.
She goes it was not financially sustainable. Her position on
that and that they were moving to this scattershite shelter
model in conjunction working with nonprofits and churches. Yeah, to
connect to people where they are right and then hopefully
(03:32):
get that safety net under them. I know, you talked
to a business owner in the Northwest quadront of town,
and then you talked to people that are organizing the
shelter there, just kind of go in to detail on
what they told you where they're at on this issue.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah. So, because this was a winter shelter, the way
it was set up was obviously it was for temporary
shelter last winter when it was really cold, and then
at some point they decided this was going to be
our first scattered site model. I think the neighbors I
spoke to there were really frustrated with the fact that
this was stood up without their knowledge. They some of
them say it was six to seven months before they
(04:11):
even had a flyer on their door about the shelter
being there, and all they knew was they saw people
congregating and then they would see like ems and police
responding a lot. The process that I'm told from here
on out will be Empire Health. So basically they're being
contracted by the city. They'll go around identify these sites
and then first talk to the community, go to the
(04:31):
neighborhood council. If it's a church, as you mentioned, which
that's the majority of the space. They've been talking to
our churches, getting congregations on board first, and then going
through the process of finding a provider, which is also
labor intensive, and then whenever we're going to open, here's
the funds. All that other stuff has to come together.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
The business owner that you talk too, he was frustrated
in that interview so that he's had to go out
pick up garbage and other things. My takeaway from watching
that interview and watching your report was he was also
compassionate on the issue. That is an interesting conflicting dynamic
for him, but I think it's a microcosm of how
(05:11):
everybody feels about this. Talk about what he told you
when it comes to, you know, being compassionate about other
human beings and at the same time being frustrated as
a business owner, because I think that sums up what
we have heard over and over and mirrored in our community.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well, it's just that conflicted, right, So he wants to
be compassionate, but then at the same time doesn't want
it outside his door. And he admitted that that's conflicting.
That doesn't make sense, right. So it was really interesting
talking to him because he's like, listen, Admittedly, I get
to go home at night. This is not where I sleep,
this is not where my family plays. This is where
I go to work and I get to go home.
(05:47):
So it's a nine to five issue for him, which
I thought good on him to admit, right, But yeah,
he said, you know, he said he never had an
issue with anybody at that shelter specifically, but he said,
there is this problem that followed with it, and I
don't know. He couldn't even directly identify or these homeless
people connected to those getting services at the shelter, but
(06:08):
he said, regardless, the timing is there. We've cleaned up garbage,
we've cleaned up human waste, We've had electrical lines cut
outside of our building because people are using outlets.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
They're tapping into the electricity and stealing it, right.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
And he's like, that's never that had never been an
issue before the shelter was here. So he sees both
sides of it. And honestly, neighbors felt the same way
that even the ones I talked to off camera that
didn't want to talk on camera, all of them said,
we know this is an issue. We're not ignorant to
the problem. We don't want it at our neighborhood, right,
(06:43):
So what neighborhood does it go in?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Well, I think that leads me to my next question.
In your report, you touch base with Empire Health. Yeah,
the mayor told me directly, Empire Health is the lynchpin
of the scattered shelter model, right, They are really the
ground ze if you will, and they want to take
this on she feels strongly. And she told me, which
(07:05):
you'll see and report later on this week, that behavioral
health resources is the key to unlock what no city
has been able to solve. Yeah, at this time, behavioral health,
Empire Health. That piece of your report, What did they
(07:25):
tell you, what was important to him? What stood out
to you.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
In that well? Empire heal's all about health equity, right,
that's their mission. So it's kind of a no duh
that they would be involved in this in a lot
of ways. But I think there, I think they didn't. Honestly,
my take from talking with Zeke, who's very dedicated to
the cause, lives in the neighborhood of the scattered site
that we profiled. The heart is there. I don't think
(07:51):
that they realized how much warkness was going to be
as anybody would, right, And he admitted, I'm going to
be totally honest. He said this to me, are not
on board. This community is not on board with this.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
That was my takeaway from there too. And she's stressed
that this has to be all area leaders, right, Valley
county leaders, law enforcement, political leaders. I know in Boise
they do have a unified voice, and they have an
efficient strategy and it has teeth. It's working in Boise
because Republicans and Democrats and the sheriff they are all
(08:26):
they've gotten in a room, they've gotten together, they unify
that message. I know that's a challenge here, that's a hurdle.
And he mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, no, he said, it's I mean they are working
on behalf of the city, right, they've been contracted to
do this, they're being paid three hundred and fifty thousand
dollars to do this work. And he just admitted. He's like, hey,
this is work that's not happening fast, you know, which
is on our side of the thing of this journalism
getting people to admit things like that is really it's
(08:56):
not like I went digging for it, you know what
I mean? Like it was really nice that he just
was up run about it. This is the reality of
the work. We're ready to take it on and just
admitting that it's not This has not been an easy process.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Let me ask you then, because you touched on something
that I have noticed and it's in fairly recent memory.
They're starting to be a complete candor yeah, a complete transparency,
whether they're frustrated and they've been immersing awhile, whether they
just look at it as this daunting mountain they have
(09:28):
to climb, or this huge hurdle that they truly don't
have a solution on how to overcome that hurdle, right,
So they're just being and I think that communication piece,
you're starting to see absolute transparency. I think that's where
it starts. And you picked that up from him.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
That was exactly. I mean he was like that on
the phone when I talked to him prior, and you know,
wanting to set the story up, and then in person
on camera, completely honest. And I think to your point,
I think it's nobody has the one solution. Nobody's figured
it out.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Really.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I mean we can we point to boys they have
a system, but they haven't solved the issue.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
They haven't solved the issue at all. They've made some progress.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Right, So I think everybody's on board that there's not
one solution. We're all just trying to figure it out.
And just admitting that it takes a lot of work
is just being honest, because that's what this is.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So what did he tell you? What is the plan
of action for his organization?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
So right now they're in talks with I think three
or four different sites, most of them churches because a
lot of the congregations are not showing up in person
like they used to, so they have a lot of
unused space. They sometimes they'll have bathrooms. You know, these
sites need to have certain things. The one that we
went to had an off site like portable showers and
(10:42):
stuff like that. So you need to finding space is
their biggest issue right now, he said, So they're talking
with churches, they're in neighborhood councils. I mean they're having
like chili with you know, neighborhoods. I mean they're doing
boots on the groundwork right now. But it seems like
he's like, we're just hitting walls with questions, and we
want to answer all the questions. It just takes a
lot of time.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Did he have an idea on how you break down
those walls? It's a similar question that I asked you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think it was the same as how we conducted
business when we shot this interview, as being honest about
it and asking what are your questions? How can I
help you feel better about this? What can I answer?
I'm not going to nothing's off off, you know, there's
nothing we can't talk about. Essentially, It's kind of how
he framed it. He's willing to answer any question anybody has.
It's just there's a lot of questions.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
The mayor told me that, you know, right now, it's
we have to get everybody at the same table, and
I think that has been a challenge. That's something that
echoed in the interview. You did with Zeke. Yeah, is
there is there are some that want to participate in
the blame game or they want to point fingers about
somebody that's doing something wrong. I don't know if you
asked seek this, but I did ask the mayor directly.
(11:50):
I said, how, as leader of the city, do you
break down that communication wall? Yeah? Do you get people
to the table to have a sobering conversation so you
can come up with unified strategy.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Well that's where he was like, we have a meal
with them. We meet on a human level. We have
a meal with them, and we talk with them. And
then he said also, you know he encourages people to
go to these shelters and volunteer. I mean, he volunteered
in the shelter that's in his neighborhood near Garland, and
he's like, I think if people see it firsthand, the
work that's being done, that breaks down the fear barrier.
Not everybody's going to do that, right, But that was
(12:25):
his recommendation is I'm going to sit down, I'm going
to have a meal with these people. We're going to
talk it out, and then I'm going to encourage them
to show up. If you want to be a part
of the solution.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Please show up one to ten. What's his level of
optimism with the scattered shelter model.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I think he's about an eight, I would say, I
think very optimsic. Think yes, And I think it goes
back to the behavioral health needs and the special medical
needs that people have, and I think they specialize in
that work, you know what I mean. So he's feeling
confident in that.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
I do want to look at our cordboard and if
you have a question, and you're on court and you're
watching us right now live, please send your question. If
we can answer it, we certainly will at least have
a conversation about it. Ava Clarkson writing in thank you
for taking the time to talk about this important issue.
So Ava, thanks for being on board listening to what
is really the key conversation that is being had in
(13:20):
so many different circles. Whether it's behavioral health, whether it's political,
whether it's law enforcement. Everybody is having this conversation in
their own silos, and I think it's a matter of
getting everybody into that same room. You were told that
by Zeke, I was told that by the mayor. I
was told that by Chief Kevin Hall, who I recently interviewed.
Chief says, you know, people think we should just go
(13:41):
and pull them off the street. He goes, the way
the law is structured in Washington State right now, if
it's a low level offense, we buy law, have to
cite and release. So it's just an evolving problem the
business owners, why can't you do something? The Chief said,
they're looking to make legislation a little bit stronger so
(14:02):
they can do some other things that they're unable to
do right now. Right but again, Ava, thanks for weighing
in on cord for us and for making that statement.
We appreciate you being with us. Anybody else that's watching
right now, Morgan, as we move forward the scatter shape model,
scattered site model, they're looking at the churches, they're looking
(14:24):
at nonprofits, they're looking at smaller places in each quadrant
of the city. Yeah, the mayor said, the big warehouse model,
there's anonymity. You don't know who's come through, you can't
connect them to services, you can't follow up on it.
That was her take on that building these out. It's
going to take time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I think to your point too, talking about the Chief
and what he said, there's a few officers I've spoken
with too, and I think these scattered sites are by
referral only. That's a really important part to point out
because it's not like a shelter where you can just
show up, knock on the door and want in. And
from the police perspective, I think they're a little frustrated
by that because they they say some of that I've
(15:05):
talked to is that they'll make these referrals, but the
shelters are full, or that person doesn't want to show up,
So there's so many obstacles to getting into one of
these twenty to thirty bed shelters. Even though the mayor
believes that's the solution. You're not just walking up and
knocking on the door.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well now, and it's not like they can look to
other cities that have implemented this scattered site model. What
stood out to me in my conversation with the mayor
and with the chief is nobody's really done this before,
the smaller scattered site models that you reported on, And
she said, you know, we're pioneering this, we're trying it,
(15:44):
we're looking for a different solution. Or the business owner
that you talked to, yeah, did they ultimately come away
with it's a struggle for me. It's a frustration for me,
but we also have to give this a chance. Or
were they against it? What was their stance or were
you able to even defer that?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah? No, I mean at the end of the interview,
his last kind of closing thought was, I am open
to this dialogue. I want to have this conversation. We
didn't have this conversation for this shelter, so it was
really specific to that shelter. But I think his thought
was if this had been brought on board to the
entire community beforehand, maybe this neighborhood specifically would have been
(16:26):
on board and supportive. But because of how it was
brought online that specific site, I think there's still some.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Tension, and I think that is going to be the
feeling for a while until it's proven that they can
exist in those neighborhoods. Yeah, and the business owners are
protected somewhat, And that is all tentacles of a plan
that's in its infancy right now. And the mayor told me,
I asked, how's this funded? And she goes, when I
(16:56):
came into office, I reached out for funding a state level.
He goes, we secured that funding, and she goes, she
is trying to come up with a model that is
financially sustainable. She said the Track shelter, they were dumping money.
It wasn't a financially sustainable model. She's also gotten huge
pushback on that. Not everybody agrees with the scattered site model.
(17:20):
So this is all playing out in our community right now.
Where it goes, No one has that answer. They are
shifting to something that hasn't been tried. There are critics
of it, heavy critics of it. It's a wait and
see on whether it gains traction and it makes an impact.
The mayor told me point blank she didn't want to
(17:43):
put a timeline on it. She goes, a year from now,
you're going to see a noticeable difference on the homeless
issue on our streets and getting people off the streets.
I said, how soon could somebody see a positive turn
on something that has been so frustrating for many Yet
people are still super humane and compassionate that these are
human beings that have fallen on hard times. What stands
(18:05):
out to me is every single person that is out
there without a home is out there for a unique
reason in their own individual path that broke down and
they ended up on the streets. So I think context
is important for that. Yeah, just your bottom line take
away on where we're at, where you see this going,
based on what you learn and the people you talk to.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
To be honest, I was very surprised at the compassion.
That shocked me a little bit, just based off of
being from here and seeing the evolution of homelessness in
our city, even just from a couple of years ago.
I think people are starting to realize what you just said,
these are human beings and clearly we haven't found the solution.
(18:49):
Like if you've been looped in at all, you know,
in any degree, you realize that this is a problem
that obviously is not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Well, it's an internal dialogue in each and every individual
that calls this area. They're frustrated. They drive downtown, they're frustrated.
Business owners are at their wits end. Their financial bottom
line is razor thin. Somebody breaks their storefront window. That
really can make or break your business totally. So what
about the business owner, But what about the compassionate piece.
(19:18):
What about the people that are addicted to fentanyl. I
know fentanyl is a big driver of this, there's a
big push to combat that ventanyl coming into the area,
because when they're hooked on fentanyl, it even reasoning and
rationale goes out the window. And then it's just drug
addiction that you're trying to treat. That's first and foremost
to get them stable. So there's so many layers and
(19:38):
it's such a complex issue, and I think this is
the conversation of our time. This is the conversation that
our area leaders have to have. This is a conversation
that we in the media need to have, and we
need to cover these stories. I'm really proud of your
story and the other stories that we've done this November
because they've gone into a further depth and detail that
(19:59):
the media necessarily hasn't done. This is a different level
of depth and detailed layer, and I think we have
an obligation in the big picture of the issue of
our time of talking to the people that are making
the decisions, talking to the people that are living and
breathing it from different vantage points, coming up with different
(20:20):
solutions and different ideas, and at that point applying what
you're learning, and also providing layered, detailed, deep information to
everybody that trusts us as a media source. You think
all of those things have to come together as one.
There has to be some unification. There has to be
clear communication, which based on people you talk to, based
(20:43):
on the number of interviews I've done, not just in
recent memory, but over the years, there is a barrier
of communication between all of the parties that need to
be unified. Come up with a strategy, then apply that strategy,
make it efficient, and make it effective totally.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And another part I want to pull up to and
I'm going to pull my email just so I get
the numbers correctly. But everybody wants to ask about money,
as you kind of you talked about the money from
the legislature, So the specific dollars that are going to
these scattered sites from the city. So it's three point
nine million from the legislature, and then one point eight
million from American Rescue Plan Act. And then like I said,
(21:21):
Empire Healths taking three hundred and fifty thousand dollars and
then that money flows through them to the providers. Just
because that's state money, that doesn't mean that's not our
tax payer dollars. I think that that's what people get
hung up on too, is well, how much are we
funding this? How much have we already put toward this.
The city's going to tell obviously that this is all
state money that they're funding these through. That's still money
(21:41):
we're paying. So that's also a big part of this too.
You know, the track shelter was a million dollars right
when she walked in. I mean, that's a lot of money.
So we also have to factor in are we willing
to solve this crisis? I mean, I don't know what
it is long term over you know, say ten years
to live in Spokane and pay for them. You know,
what does that look like. I think that's a big
(22:02):
concern for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I think your instinct on that and your gut checker
on that is spot on. It's people want it fixed. Well,
you're going to have to contribute in some way. Every
single person that lives here and calls in the Northwest
home has to contribute in some way, whether it's financially
and it's tax money, whether it's volunteering, whether I mean,
there are so many ways this needs to be put
(22:25):
under the microscope and magnified. We need to and I
know that some city leaders and area leaders have looked
to success stories in other cities. Yeah, there's been some tracks,
and we mentioned in Boise, there's been some inroads made
in Houston. Yeah, there's been some inroads made in San Diego.
And Chief Hall recently traveled over to Seattle looked at
(22:45):
their DAT program where they are having some tangible results
for the better. So I know they're looking at everything. Again,
many of the interviews I've done, they've told me point blank,
nobody solved this at this time. Yeah, this is something
that it's different that we're trying the scattered shelter model
that you reported.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
On, and I think if maybe homelessess doesn't directly affect you,
or it's not in your neighborhood, the money part is
the hook, Right, You're paying for it as a taxpayer.
You're paying for it, so then you should automatically care.
That's your investment. So I think that we're going to
see in the next five to ten years, hopefully some
change because of that motivating factor.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I would hope, And just on an emotional level for me,
I was born here, you're from here. Yeah, it has
changed so much, it's transformed, and it's kept me awake.
How does this get solved? These are humans. How do
we help them and at the same point protect our city,
protect the business owners, protect the people that want to
take their family downtown that maybe are a little more
(23:47):
reluctant to go downtown because of the adverse situation down there.
But on an emotional level, that's where it gets me sometimes. Yeah,
and you have to be compassionate, but you also have
to be willing to add to the equation in a
positive way to come up with a solution.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, And you know you touched on feanyl. That's something
I've been I've been heavily involved with, you know, spoke
Annaly and some feentanyel education and that is a big
piece of this, right as drug use or just mental
it all correlates, right. And if you talk to the sheriff,
John Doles about it, you know, his daughter obviously went
through treatment for fetanyl and we shared that story with us,
(24:32):
and his stance on it is that people sometimes need
to be forced into treatment, right.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, his story, You've you know, sat down with his
daughter and he's shared with me. We've had just very
candid conversations about it. I have some familiar experience with
drug addiction too, and so I've lost a brother as well,
and it all goes in and I think Sheriff Knowles
is He's like, you know, I'm not going to let
(25:00):
my loved one go. These are people's loved ones, whether
they're a strange, whether they have no idea where they are.
This is a reality of our time. The fentanyl piece,
I know there's pushback. The mayor told me they're doubling
down resources on pushing back on the fentanyl coming in here.
I've done numerous in depth interviews with the District Attorney
(25:23):
of Eastern Washington. I know the fentanyl flow comes up
basically from Mexico through Oregon, through the Tri Cities and
then right into central Washington and then over here to
our area, and they're looking to push back on that
and fly back on that. There's a concerted effort to
push back on that trail of fentanyl that's coming up
into our state and really our entire region. Whether you're
(25:43):
listening in Washington or Idaho or Oregon, it's happening. And
so there's a big pushback on that piece as well.
We've how long we've been talking here, almost a half hour.
There are so many layers. I mean, this is just
the tip of the iceberg of the conversation. It really is,
and so it shows you thirty minutes in, there are
so many different things to talk about. We're going to
(26:04):
continue to have this conversation. Morgan. I thank you for
being here and sharing your insights and your reporting. And
you know it just wasn't the one report. You've been
immersed on this like I have, and talking to the
people that are making the decisions that hopefully will transform
people's lives, people that are home with their lives for
the better, but transform our area for the better for
(26:26):
everybody that lives here.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, and like you said, it's going to take everybody
coming together on it.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
It is.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
So I think we're getting closer talking to all of
our area leaders, but there's still work to be done.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well, appreciate your reporting, appreciate your time on the podcast.
Thanks for being here. Of course got to be here,
and thanks to all of you that joined us on
cord and watched at home or wherever you are on
your phone. We appreciate that such an important conversation and
just appreciate you being on this podcast helping save Spokane
not in my backyard. Additional podcasts on this issue are
available on your favorite podcasting app or at NonStop Local
(26:59):
dot com. If you're interested in joining live events for
our podcast, this is we're creating this all together. We
want to have a conversation not just in this room,
but with you at home, wherever you're in earshot of
this conversation because it's so important. Wherever you want to
join us for live events, you can sign up by
going to Chordspokane dot com. Thanks so much on behalf
(27:22):
of Morgan Ashley. I'm Sean Alesley. Thanks for being with us.
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