May 20, 2024 • 43 mins
This week Kate and Megan had the pleasure of chatting with Chrysa Chin. From her trailblazing role as the first woman to hold a VP position in the NBA's Player Development Department to her visionary work with the NBPA, Chrysa Chin has dedicated over 20 years to supporting the personal and professional growth of basketball players. Guided by the principles of "Empower, Enlighten and Uplift," Chin has crafted a distinguished career, helping players like Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Alonzo Mourning reach their maximum potential both on and off the court.
As the Executive Vice President of Strategy and Development for the NBPA, Chin directs the implementation of innovative player initiatives and programs designed to foster meaningful relationships between players and businesses. Her impressive resume includes spearheading the expansion of the league's 20 & Under Program, which provides fundamental skills for a successful adjustment to the NBA and equips young players with the essential tools to become prolific professionals.
Chin's impact extends beyond the court, as she co-founded Behind the Bench, the National Basketball Wives Association. This platform empowers NBA families, moving wives from behind the bench to the forefront of community involvement and philanthropy. By building a fortifying sisterhood, Chin creates a support system that helps NBA families navigate the unique challenges of a professional sports career.
Chrysa Chin's unwavering dedication to empowering, enlightening, and uplifting basketball players serves as an inspiration to aspiring athletes and industry leaders alike. Her trailblazing journey continues to pave the way for the next generation of basketball stars, both on and off the court.
As the Executive Vice President of Strategy and Development for the NBPA, Chin directs the implementation of innovative player initiatives and programs designed to foster meaningful relationships between players and businesses. Her impressive resume includes spearheading the expansion of the league's 20 & Under Program, which provides fundamental skills for a successful adjustment to the NBA and equips young players with the essential tools to become prolific professionals.
Chin's impact extends beyond the court, as she co-founded Behind the Bench, the National Basketball Wives Association. This platform empowers NBA families, moving wives from behind the bench to the forefront of community involvement and philanthropy. By building a fortifying sisterhood, Chin creates a support system that helps NBA families navigate the unique challenges of a professional sports career.
Chrysa Chin's unwavering dedication to empowering, enlightening, and uplifting basketball players serves as an inspiration to aspiring athletes and industry leaders alike. Her trailblazing journey continues to pave the way for the next generation of basketball stars, both on and off the court.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This episode is brought to you by Tina's vodka.
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Hi, it's Chris Hitchin. I'm Chief Player Engagement Officer at the National Basketball Players Association.
I have oversight of six departments, player health, mental health and wellness, off the court,
player programs, player matters, and career development. And this is her table.
Now you see her.
(00:24):
You are magnificent!
Welcome to her table, the podcast that shines a spotlight on the badass women who are redefining the game.
Join host Kate Foley and Megan Martinez as Pay On Lock, the Secrets of Success in the brightest female pioneers in the industry.
Welcome back to another inspiring episode of her table. I am so excited to bring my dear friend and long-time colleague in the NBA.
(00:51):
Chris the Chen to the show. She is the EVP of the National Basketball Players Association. She has had an amazing journey in her career in sports and professional development over the last 20 years.
Prior to joining the NBA, Chris served as the Vice President for a player development for the NBA, where she was the first woman to hold a management position in the player development department and the title of Vice President.
(01:17):
She played active roles with the NBA's Workie Transition Program, USA Basketball and the WMBA.
It's such an honor to have Chris here today all the way from New York. She is so inspiring, has changed just so many lives and has some of the most iconic moments that I have seen in sports in the last 20 years.
Pull up a chair and welcome to her table.
(01:38):
Chris I'm so excited to have you on the show today. This has been a long time coming friend, long time coming.
It has been and I'm excited to be here with you both.
We are so proud. It's for like ever. She's like Chris the Chen, Chris the Chen. I can't wait to sit around. I'm like, I need to be Chris the Chen.
So we are really excited about having you all on the show.
(02:00):
No, okay, so I want to jump in. We want to kind of jump a couple of places because your story is so empowering.
And it's 32 years long, so there's that.
So I feel like we might be in another episode. The next one's going to be on set. Well, it's a good time. It's a vibe.
It's a big full of vibe. It'll leave you in a cup of coffee for you. Then you don't have to pay for it.
(02:24):
I love that. I love that. Maybe it'll drink too. Never have to. You want to mix both of it.
Mixed up it. Okay, so you're from New York. Born and raised. Born and raised and you're still in New York.
Yeah, because you can't get out or you just love it so much, you don't want to leave it. No, I, you know, I've been many places in the world, certainly all over the country and New York is home for me.
(02:47):
A lot of our business obviously is here, so it makes sense to be headquartered here.
Don't love the weather.
But, but I do love everything else about it. I do love the convenience of being here. I love the diversity. That's really important to me being.
As someone I'm a black woman, but, you know, but multicultural for sure. So, you know, those pieces are important to me.
(03:11):
And I like the pace. You know, I like the pace. Like I'm a like, let's get it done. Let's go.
She's the one walking on the moving sidewalk.
Yeah, definitely not standing on the moving sidewalk.
She's the one that's like, why are you not utilizing extra steps in your day here?
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We get at the airport too, by the way, when people are like, they have to learn how to deep plane because they don't get up the plane.
And they have to learn how to go through security. It's like, get your tray and move it down to the other end.
Up and beat it. There should be a whole class on this. I feel like there should be a lane for like if you travel a lot, experience travelers and those just starting the process.
(03:55):
They should all have like a learning curve. The rest of that actually they used to they they had that at one point frequent travelers and then others.
Our former executive director, maybe, you know, a couple of go Michelle Roberts used to tease me about that in the airport because I said,
oh, the people are slow and they can bear. Like, the tray, move it down to the other end.
(04:16):
Well, like, because you've just like in this world, especially in sports, your time is so critical.
And we're going to spend it. Who you give it to the energy it takes from you is just, it's finite, right? And so I find especially for me like, I have a system.
I know what time to get there. I know where to park. I know where I'm going to get a coffee. I know from one to the bathroom.
I know all the stops along the way. And it's so funny because I feel like I get wrapped up in my own self sometimes when I travel with some of my staff that don't do this a lot.
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I'm like, I don't do that. You don't know that. And they're like, no, what I'm like, what?
The funnier thing is when you have to connect. I think you know what airports you want to connect through. Like, yes, yes.
I love going to Houston or connecting through Houston because I know if I can get to E4, I'm going to pop it. And I build that in.
Or if I'm on the West and somehow I'm coming, you know, red eye and I got to go through Seattle. Like I have my shops that I go to while I'm in the airport or Minnesota or, you know, just different airports.
(05:16):
So, you have to develop if you have to travel, which this work requires that, you know, you have to figure out how do you make things work.
I have a big joke with my staff about some of my clothes because sometimes I'm so weird to get that one on the airport because that's my shop.
I shop in the airport.
I'm Chris doesn't the airport. She's like, I already know where I'm stopping and where to go.
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Vegas is one for that. I like the Vegas airport shops. They got a couple little spicy things in there. So.
Vegas has JFK has, you know what Atlanta has. But I mean, you know, again, it's about time, right?
We're busy. Our days are really, really long and, you know, where some people may have an opportunity to go shopping on the weekend.
Many of us are, you know, we might be free draft or combine or layoffs or whatever it is. So you have to, I mean, you have to figure it out.
(06:07):
You know, as a, I don't even think it's a gender thing. I just think it's a, it's a work thing. You have to figure it out. So yeah.
So you started as a case manager for the city of New York several, several careers ago.
Right. But that was your first stop in this journey on the.
It was right. It was out of college.
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Right. But you've got a degree in a bachelor of arts or international relations.
Yep, I did. I did. And I, and I minored in religious studies.
And now you're one of the most powerful women in the NBA. Like walk me through how you went from the first stop in the elaborate road to this stop today.
Okay. Well, she's like two years later. This is.
(06:50):
I wish. But, but you know, I'll make it quick. But, but I do think the experiences are important.
And I graduated from college and I was a case manager for the city of New York. And I got to work with different populations of people.
The criminally insane. Probably one of my most interesting cases that I had as a case manager that elderly population and then juvenile delinquents and juvenile delinquents as they are labeled are my favorite.
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You know, they were my favorite population. The criminally insane piece was interesting in many ways, but it was also very rewarding because you know, when you do that type of work, you get to see the impact.
And often you see it immediately. You know, I had.
And in that case, I had a a gentleman who he yelled and screamed at me every day. Curse me out every day called me things that I'd not even heard before.
(07:49):
And, but at the same time, at the end, you know, he thanked me for the efforts in my work. And he, you know, even though he, you know,
psychologically was where he was, he, you know, his case was several months behind when I inherited it. And so he had a lot of anger, a lot of frustration, you know, and all of that.
(08:14):
But anyway, all of that to say that at the end, you know, he apologized for all the terrible things that he called me.
And in the way that he acted toward me and treated me, but was appreciative of the work. So I only use that example to say that, you know, in a lot of the journeys or a lot of the stops, you have an opportunity to make impact and and affect people's lives in a way that means something to them.
(08:37):
Forget what it means to you. It means something to them. And that's what's important.
And so I did that, you know, for, for a bit and then thought I wanted to go to law school. So, you know, it was paralegal and then became a case manager in the security's litigation systems.
I don't know, I still don't know to this day how I developed an expertise in securities litigation. I remember when I first, you know, when somebody said I was an expert in securities litigation, I'm like, what the heck is that?
(09:09):
Like, what does that even mean?
But, you know, but I developed that expertise and had opportunity to work on really high profile cases that, you know, that afforded me opportunity to travel around the country and review documents and, you know, identify, you know, pieces of evidence that were, you know, that were critical to the settlement of some very high, high profile cases.
(09:35):
And so, you know, I did that and got a lot of W's here. And then decided I was bored, which, you know, which is kind of my personality. If I get bored, you know, then I can no longer be 150% in.
And we, and my family, the whole Butler plan is I like to say we were raised with that work ethic. Like, if you're doing something, whatever it is, it has to be 150%.
(10:05):
Right. If you're cleaning the bathroom, 150%. Like my grandmother would say, I should be able to eat off the floor. Right. So, I mean, with that sort of detail.
And so, I always committed to my work in that very same way. And when my major, you know, my last really, really big case settled, I decided, you know, I don't want to do this anymore. And I don't want to go to law school. Like I thought I did originally. So now, what am I going to do?
(10:32):
And I had a passion for sport. And that was, you know, the very, very top of the 90s. And it was not women were not, you know, popular in sports, women executives, women managers, women staff.
I mean, you just didn't find it at a high level.
The way that you do today. And we're still not where we need to be. But, but we're, you know, but we are getting there. There, you know, there have been some, some inroads made for sure.
(10:59):
So, you know, I was told it was discounted by everyone. Oh, you're crazy. You're, you know, you're not going to be successful. They'll never accept you. And, you know, all of those things. And I had an opportunity to start actually where I am today.
And that's at the players association. And so I worked for Charlie Grantham, you know, as a, as a specialist assistant to him and, and the manager.
(11:25):
And, and they allowed me. He and Isaiah Thomas was the president at that time. They allowed me to, you know, to do the work that I do. They, I was able to sell my transferable skills that I developed and sell them in sport and show how they applied and how I, how they could align.
And, you know, and it worked out and I, you know, I give a lot of credit to them to this day because they empowered me at a time when women were not being empowered in this industry.
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And so, you know, people for many different reasons would try to circumvent me or, you know, and Charlie and Isaiah would always say, do you run that by Chris, because Chris approved that. And so they didn't allow people to circumvent me.
And so important. So important. It's so important. It's a skill that I, and it's actually a skill. It is still to be able to have a tough conversation and realize what someone's trying to do without coming across this nasty or ugly or like you're being protected.
(12:30):
Like, hey, like this is her job. Let her do her job. Right. Having your back to tell people, let her do her job. She's good at it. Go talk to her. Don't come around. That's so important. So powerful because so many women don't have that. Right. And it's, you know, we call it now today, you know, the sort of the buzzword. I guess for this all I ship right. We all want all I ship. And so, but, but again, you know, this was at a time when there were no buzzwords. There were, you know, that just kind of wasn't what was happening.
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But they had the respect and the confidence and my ability, even though I was coming from a different, you know, a different industry. And so, you know, so I did that. And it, you know, it was great. And, you know, they allowed me great visibility. And I was able to do many, many things. And then, you know, as happens in many organizations, leadership changes.
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And so when it changed, I left. And consulted for Nike for three years, you know, did that and loved it.
It was, you know, it was a lot of fun. It was out of New York. And, you know, it was some troubleshooting, some events management, you know, player facing, you know, in many regards, lead youth facing, youth facing.
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And, but also, you know, another really good opportunity to do some great work and stay connected. And then David Stern and Adam Solver, David was the commissioner at that time. And Adam, I think might have been the president of MBA, at that time, they asked me to come, you know, and help launch the W, which I did. And, you know, they said, I'd have to sever my ties with Nike.
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I did that and came to the NBA. And they said after the inaugural season, they would transfer me to to men's basketball. And I was like, well, okay.
And I, you know, again, but it was, you know, I had a great relationship with with Adam when I was at the NBA, you know, the first time, you know, we had, we were.
(14:40):
Counterparts, he was special assistant to Adam, I was special assistant to Charlie. And so, you know, it worked out well. Adam's great. You know, we had a great relationship. And, and then I came over and, and, you know, learned about some things that I didn't know.
There was a position that I think, you know, I don't think it exists today, but was called broadcast is on. And, and so something that that happens now that didn't happen then was, you know, NBC lifetime.
(15:09):
And ESPN had to cross promote the games. And so that was my job was to liaison with those three networks and make sure folks had the information that they needed to do that. And it was very unusual, you know, back then in 97.
I mean, it just wasn't common. But again, you know, did that. And then, you know, went over to men's basketball and had different roles. And then ultimately was transitioned.
(15:40):
I covered my good, very good friend. I call her my twin, Leah Wilcox, K2, I think you know, making, I don't know if you know, Leah, but Leah was going out on maternity leave. And they asked me if I would run, Leah's department while she was gone.
And then she did that. And then she came back and Leah and I had, you know, we were like planning to take over the world.
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So, you know, and so, but they it was funny and and and Russ Granick and others at that time was brilliant. They said, you know, we couldn't have two people with strong player relationships in the same group.
And then they started throughout the organization, which was smart. So they transferred, they transitioned me to a group that was then called player programs now called player development.
(16:30):
It was run by Satch Sanders. Historically, it had been all former players, you know, right and rightfully so. And so they'd not had a woman in their group.
And so, you know, I used to laugh with Satch now and and did back then, you know, it was just an unusual situation.
(16:54):
The learning curve for us.
Learning her, right?
But them, not for me.
Yeah.
For them, it's like, you want to help me through this one.
Yeah. So, so, so yeah, it was really funny and we have, you know, we laugh about it today, but it was a very different environment.
Right. So, I mean, you know, was it uncomfortable? Was it just intense? Intaminating?
(17:15):
Like was I was not intimidated. I mean, Megan, you don't know me Kate. Kate does, but yeah, I'm like, yeah, I'm five feet tall, but I, but you know, I had to fight, you know, my entire life.
So, so, so this was, yeah. So it's just like, you know, it's like it's cool. And I want to get along with everyone. And I want everybody to, you know, I want us to to all like be aligned and go forward.
(17:39):
But, you know, but it's different and people have to get to know you. And if they, you know, the perception can be whatever it is.
But my work ethic again has just always been strong. And so, you know, there, there was, I always tell this story because I think it's, it's, I don't know if everybody thinks it's funny. I think it's hilarious.
So I, I came in one day and everyone's office was empty.
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And I looked at my calendar. I guess there could be a meeting or like, like, where is everybody? And I'm like, look around and like no one's around.
And so I knock on Satch's door and no one answers the door, but the door is closed.
And so at that time, you had to be dressed to go to work. And so, you know, I have all sorts of things swirling around in my head, you know.
(18:31):
And so I take off my shoe and I start beating on the door.
My personality, you sense? Like, let me be a little louder.
Yeah, let me be a little louder because I was like.
And so he opened the door and he said, yes, and they were all sitting in here.
We're all sitting in there. And I said, I said, is there a meeting?
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And he looked back and he said, well, you know, yeah, I said, are you talking about player programs, business?
And he said, yeah, I said, well, pull up a chair because I'm joining the meeting.
And so he said, again, pull it up my friends. Let's go.
And he said, well, well, all right. And they pulled up, you know, he pulled up a chair and it was fine. And there was, there were no bad feelings.
(19:21):
But I said to him after that, I said, you know what? From now on, we are going to have six minutes of bonding time every day.
Because you are going to learn to like me. And so, and I knew him before.
So, you know, it's not like I didn't know my new one when I was at the, at the PA.
But, you know, then we, like, we got along great and everything was fine.
(19:45):
And, you know, he and rightfully so, you know, was protective of the players and thought that maybe the introduction, you know, of woman into this space to discuss the things that we had to discuss, you know, maybe off putting to our players.
And so, you know, he said, look, if the guys are not going to talk to you, then I'm not going to be able to have you in front.
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And I said, well, I said, I'm not, I'm not arrogant or cocky, I said, but there's a part in me that thinks that they may talk to me more because I'm a woman.
And most, you know, men are raised by their mothers, grandmothers and aunts. And so, there's, it's a different approach and it's not competitive.
(20:31):
It's just a different approach, right? So, you know, there are things that I can't discuss with players. And I always say, I didn't play, you know, I feel like I'm a player because I've lived through all of it with them on and off the court and, you know, all that.
But, but it's not the same, but it is a complimentary team that can be, that can be formed if you, if you are strategic.
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And so, you know, I was able to have great impact with our guys and, you know, they knew me from my, you know, time at the players association, they knew me from Nike, I developed relationships, I, you know, developed trust.
Because I always say, you know, it goes in the vault and it doesn't come out. And, you know, what I know will die with me.
(21:17):
I'm not going to ever write a book or any of this crap that people really have to write a book. I'm like, about what, you know, I can write a book about approach.
Yeah.
And how to engage and how to develop relationships, but never about the experiences that my players have had good better and different unless they've asked, unless they asked me to share it.
So, so, so, Chrissy, you just went through this whole thing.
(21:41):
And I'm sitting here, no, no, I'm sitting here and all because what you started on and your journey and path, right, was not by design.
It does not sound like it does not sound like you had a mood board with like your dream job on it and then you had your road of how to road map.
It's so funny because, you know, even for myself and Megan is she's in her career, like sometimes you have this dream job that you want and you miss the actual purpose in your life because you're so focused on what you think you should be doing instead of letting the universe bring you to places you can contribute because everybody skills that's different.
(22:19):
Everyone's talented in different ways.
And I think it's like, listen to your story. It's like you had such a unique talent and skill set that could be applied at any stage, age and path in your career that it was whether that was a leadership or a support role, right, it's needed.
Yeah.
What classes do you wish you would have taken in school or helped?
(22:41):
Or is there a class that would have prepared you more?
It's interesting because some things I think and I've learned this, you know, you sometimes can't be taught, you know, you can't, there are some things you can't teach, right, you can't, I mean, people always say, how do you talk to players?
(23:09):
Like people, you know, I don't know.
You know, I'm respectful, I'm big on that and, you know, I'm older than most of the universe, but I make sure that, you know, that players understand that I respect them and that I hear them and that I'm acting on what they say, but there's not anything.
(23:33):
You know, I always think, oh, you know, I wish I had gone to law school, I wish I had done this and not really, not really, you know, I am not really, I think that that a lot of of what I have learned, I learned in my roles long the way, you know,
like experience, right, which is oftentimes, is like experience and oftentimes that's more valuable than a classroom because the book is not applied a lot in real life, unfortunately.
(24:02):
No, it's not an end, but you also, I mean, part of that ability to be able to develop the skill set or learn, you have to have leaders that empower you, right, and that put you in positions, they're not threatened, you know, like I, I had, I worked for some really great people, you know, in my,
along the way, you know, I, I mean, if I go back when I was at, you know, when I worked for the city, I feel rough and great as supervisor ever, you know, heard me, understood me, let me do my thing, got to the law firm, I had Joe Marillo, who was a kick behind attorney and, and, and, and,
(24:43):
his name was DJ O'Brien was the partner, I mean, they were, and Bernie McCarthy, they like, they let me go, you know, they let me, they let me do my thing and then, you know, you know, Charlie and Isaiah, I've talked about them, such and then I had Steve Mills and Mike Bantam and all of these great leaders that allowed me to work and, and, and, and empowered me and then, you know, you had the beauty of David Stern and, and,
(25:10):
Russ Granick and Adam and you know just Marctaed them like all of these these wonderful people that you could work with and for that really wanted to partner you know of course there were there were women that were
involved I mean you know folks know you know obviously Kathy Barons if I think about here at the PA show Roberts and you know you know that the that was part of me coming back you know along with the
(25:35):
at the urging of the executive committee so you know you have to have leaders that that let you
develop along the way and that trust you to take a you know to take a risk and understand that you you know you may be on to something you know I always laugh about
Mike Bantam who let our department for a while former player and I learned a lot about leadership from him because he allowed you to
(26:04):
you know he didn't always agree with what you said so you know you didn't get that but but he would say
you talk and he was like but I'm yeah but but but but he but you know he did something really great you know on the occasion like yeah I said I don't I don't know I don't trust it but I'm gonna let you do it
right and and if it fails
(26:27):
it'll be a different conversation right and and and you got to love that because he because I had to because then you have to think about what kind of risk am I taking how confident am I in this
thought or this idea right that I'm gonna that is that this is gonna work but he did you know he and then and when I got the wins he came back and said you would always say you know
(26:50):
a kid I didn't think that was gonna work but but you know good you know you did great and he you know and he continued to empower me and and supported me and and would make sure you know I mean people have to make sure that you continue to
to be elevated yeah I feel like it's so important because like Kate and I talk about all the time where we're celebrating women but you also have to
(27:12):
like acknowledge the man that also lift you and like you know create well that's why I made it a point of doing that yeah and I love that and like when you're
talking about Isaiah Thomas and everything like really making sure that you're included and that you're this vital part of this you know MVP and the organization
from like an audience point of view can you kind of go over we're briefly talking about how you're in that Lanna you're you know you're all real
(27:34):
place to come to LA can you kind of touch on basically your job as the VP of chief player engagement for them BPA I know it's a huge role and this is a loaded question
right so yeah so in in in my role I oversee six departments as chief player engagement officer those departments are
(27:57):
mental health and wellness player health player programs
art off the court which is a transition program player matters and then
um we we have a career development department but we're actually in the process we're we're going through a
(28:22):
reorganize structure so a lot of that is moving around and and changing but but in that oversight those are all
player facing groups and and I also have oversight of our our drug program and crisis management so it you
know often you're you're deploying or you are deployed um for certain reasons you know not all of them
(28:43):
public you know not all of them catastrophic but just in need of strategy um and so you know that's what it
it takes you have to you know you have to be up and and going we have our agent seminar um
next week in LA and so you know I will be I will be there for that um to talk about
(29:05):
something I was going to talk about a little bit later but you know what we we have an initiative or a
program that I started when I came called first call meaning that the players association is your
first call and this is sort of the team and this is how it helps and it's not in competition with
agents or agencies it's actually a support or a collaboration with yeah so that the player is
(29:26):
getting the best service and so you know I often we'll talk about that in different groups and
talk about our drug program and coming forward and you know something that that those things that
can create issues for our players you know in in our industry steroids and performance
enhancing drugs because of you know they're you think you're taking a vitamin it's not really
(29:50):
a vitamin and it's contaminated and so we just have all these issues and so I like to make sure to
the extent that I can uh at least top level making sure that that the folks that are supporting our
players have an understanding of it and they know who to call when something comes up you know if a
player is being extorted you know we need to know about that if there are you know our other issues
(30:12):
that have to be addressed so um yeah I always think it's so interesting because Megan I call Chris
she's like my she's my first call if I don't know where to go I call Chris and I'm like she it might
not be you I always tell her this might be you but I know it's been me down whatever lane I need to
go yeah it's so important that we talk about it because a lot of times especially in this day
(30:35):
and age everything's public fast quick you can't get it back yeah and so trying to encourage agents
representatives agencies right to have a better working relationship for me is important with the
MBA because oftentimes everyone does like this they just want to hold everything close don't talk to
anybody but me and I'll fix it and I have done that in my career it has not worked out well for me
(31:00):
it has been very much a path of like putting handle that a different way and how to better
outcome but knowing that you have people that you can call and say hey don't judge me don't judge
my client don't judge the situation what should I do what would you advise is so imperative because
so much of what these guys do especially in any athlete right it's judged by somebody somewhere
(31:25):
and so to be able to have people in your corner that are not going to judge you they're just going
to tell us the information and we're going to advise you on the best way to handle that
is really what krissey you do for me because i'm like christina this my is down crazy but here's
what i got today nothing is crazy nothing shocks me anymore i'm like interesting i don't even say wow
anymore i'm just like interesting but really trying to lean into that because there was for a long time
(31:51):
in my experience a big divide between the league office the players association and then the agents
and all three of those groups play imperative roles in these athletes i mean i'm talking
without them the wheel doesn't turn right no being wanted to work together right because it was very
territorial it was very like the association wanted this the pa wanted this and then your agency
(32:15):
wants this and really understanding and getting to know those people when you talked earlier about
relationships right of like even if it's just meeting people and finding where they live what they
like with their days like it's so important because you have people pulling at you all day long
these guys and people pulling at them all day long and so to have that relationship that's
softer easier tone you talked about this earlier sometimes it's easier for a woman to have a
(32:41):
really hard conversation and it's really better than a man it's just what's the tone temperament
and read the room the way for you has been an experience that you might have had where you've had
to have a really up to today probably a lot but tough conversation to get to the other side right
like wasn't really hard to talk about but we're going to come out the other side whether that's
(33:04):
with a player or a staff member so they're you know that's a it's a really interesting question so
I think there are a lot of those conversations that you and the having you know especially
from me I'll use the drug program as an example right because sometimes someone may test positive
(33:27):
and they may not have any idea about the who would why or where sometimes they do but sometimes
but sometimes they you know but but but but but a lot of times they don't and there are
consequences you know detesting positive if it's if it's a steroid or perform
(33:48):
it's a performance enhancing drug it's a 25 game suspension if it is what we call the band substance
it is a dismissal and disqualification with only an opportunity to reapply right so those are really
hard conversations and what I always say to guys is okay look you've tested positive
(34:10):
this is not you know we have some work ahead of us no the main this is you know yeah well I mean
the only thing is is that normally when I'm having that conversation it's because we've had
two samples tested when they're when the collection occurs there's an A sample and a B sample so
A comes back positive I automatically have the B sample tested but it's it's rare that that will
(34:32):
come back negative sometimes it does but but rare but but but what comes out of that is that you
have to break the news right you say look you've tested positive these are the consequences here are
some things that we need to do I need you to backtrack and give me all of the information surrounding
this date I need you to look at these things I need you to you know so we go through the whole process
(34:55):
and I always say look worst case scenario is that there will be that there will be this penalty
but either way we're going to come out on the other end you're going to be fine right so if
you are penalized because there is no you know there's not a mistake or whatever we have to go
(35:15):
from this point on that's all we can do and so here is the strategy to recover and guys really
like the concept of from this point on because there's never any judgment in my conversation I don't
I don't I don't care about I just don't I want I always say guys I want you to be safe I don't
(35:39):
care about any of the rest of it I just want you to be safe I don't care who how why
I just want you to be safe right and I and I also say there are I'm in your corner all the way
to try to help you get to the other end whatever we got to do we can cry it out fight it out you know
well I but I but I have rules right my rule is you can't lie to me because you put
(36:04):
yourself at a disadvantage and you put me at a disadvantage as I'm trying to negotiate on your
behalf so we have that I said there are I said the guys are two things that you can't come to me for
because I can't help you if you're accused of rape or accused of charm less station
(36:26):
I will be helpful if you actually did it not your person right I just I'm you'd have to see somebody
like it I can't help you um and they under everybody understands that and they they respect that
anything else we can look try to figure out we can work those are are things for me that
personally that just aren't unknown right so um so those are the conversations I mean you have to
(36:54):
all players understand we might not get the win on this but but even still you're going to be okay
this is how we're gonna fix it this is how we'll repair your image this is how we'll work with your
agent this is how we'll do this we will engage our our PR teams we will you know we will get
we will get through it so those are the the things and and and it's it's great right like I
(37:19):
think about it you know again it's just sort of the the greatness of of our guys Chris Paul was our
our former president of the of the union and now we have CJ McCullum and you know they're so
easy to talk to and and Chris thinks nothing of referring guys and say okay you gotta call Chris
and Chris is actually you know the reason that I'm back at the PA um because he he was insistent
(37:47):
that that that that that I you know that that I come but I mean but he also you know I bring it up
to say that he's you know he understands the resource sources he refers guys to our players are
executive committee you know Andre Guadalajas now at the helm you know they they will direct back
(38:10):
to these resources so that we can help our players and there's a confidence in the ability to do
to do the work and get guys to the other side oh Chris but like how do you train your staff to
like I always look at this like they're I'm not going to do this forever uh there's me a day I don't
wake up right so how are you training your staff and I think it speaks a lot to culture I think it
(38:33):
speaks a lot to do teamwork collaboration and I also think it speaks to experience but like how
do you train your staff to I always try and train them better than me right like I want you to be
better than me learn from my losses right let's share them learn from them because I want you to be
better than me that's not necessarily the norm like that is not the norm in a lot of industries how do
(38:53):
you cultivate that it's hard um it depends I mean right there there are I have oversight of six
departments so it you know different you know player health those what it does mental health and
wellness but for crisis management specifically it's you have to really want to do the work right
and so I mean because it's not for but like it's not just a job like you have to be all in or all
(39:18):
out because you can't you can't straddle um one one these issues and so you have to you have to
be passionate about it and once you identify someone who is passionate about it really wants to do it
wants to learn then you're in you know you're you can start to train so I have a young woman on my
staff Ricky Dean needs a group that's now called Player Matters right and she's I've been you know
(39:44):
she's been with me for a long time she took a little break for a second but but but anyway she's
back and and she's great and so you know initially she wasn't involved in the in the drug program at
all but you know I started to bring her in slowly so now she's doing she's working um I have oversight
over but she's working on the on the GLeague drug program so you have to you know you get people in
(40:09):
and and then they start to experience different situations and you help them get through them
and then they begin to develop their own they develop their own style their own way of approaching
and and and managing it but you you have to want to do that work yeah that part of the work right you
have to want to deal with those things it's not because it's it's not the sexy job it's not sexy
(40:35):
there's nothing cute about it's mentally exhausting too because it's funny you talked about your
first stop with with you know the mentally insane right? Criminal Insane yeah Criminal Insane sorry
Criminal Insane don't come for me is that it wrong nobody you're all listening guys say wrong sorry
you know how it is people wait for you to say something not right then they just in the comments
(40:55):
they're like you know you are oftentimes the crux right of the really pivotal moment of this is
this is a really shitty time in somebody's life and you have to be the sounding board the adult
but also the reality check none of those things come with the thank you on the front end they always
(41:16):
come with the thank you on the back end right like then it's just everybody's out for me you're
just probably a lot of yelling a lot of crying a lot of whole lot of everything and then it's it's
not that like you leave for the day and you're like well I just accomplished July you're like wow
I got through that day how do you take care of your own mental health in that setting because that's
you know for you to be able to give that to someone else you also have to take care of yourself
(41:39):
I think it's the approach I think it's the way that I look at it because I you know I'm looking
how can we get the win for this player how can we get the win and so that's where my energy is
directed into that it's not like oh my gosh this is so dancing like I don't that's just not even
my personality it's like okay we got a problem you just really got to do I need you to do this you
(42:03):
to do that you know there's a lot of collaboration that goes on with you know sometimes with different
departments sometimes not depending upon what it is but but I look at it that way it's like how can
how can we get through this not like oh my gosh this is going to be such a challenge I just
never approach anything like that it's like okay here's the deal we got this problem we got to
(42:27):
solve it I need persons A B and C or not this is what I need you to do you know and how are we
going to team up to do this and and and figure it out you know as it relates to myself you know
I think you have to have a balance I have a fun my son Joel who's actually in sort of we're in
(42:48):
the same business so it's kind of fun he works for the Westchester and the next player development
coach and so you know I have that balance because my son is my pride and joy he's my heart and soul
so so there's that thought I always have that to look forward to I mean I think also you know people
believe in different things I've been a Buddhist for more than 40 years and so you know I think the
(43:10):
way that I manage stress issues I think is different from from how many people manage it I don't you
know I look at it I look at problems holistically and I try to figure out how we got there and then
okay now I know how we got there how do we get from there to where we need to go to get the win
to get you back on the court to be healthy and to approach this in a way that that makes sense how
(43:35):
do we recover it's my focus that was such an amazing episode with Chris the Chen so many stories
so many path to her career make sure you guys stay tuned there's gonna be a part two coming up soon
[Bell]
This episode is brought to you by Tina's vodka.
(00:03):
Hi, it's Chris Hitchin. I'm Chief Player Engagement Officer at the National Basketball Players Association.
I have oversight of six departments, player health, mental health and wellness, off the court,
player programs, player matters, and career development. And this is her table.
Now you see her.
(00:24):
You are magnificent!
Welcome to her table, the podcast that shines a spotlight on the badass women who are redefining the game.
Join host Kate Foley and Megan Martinez as Pay On Lock, the Secrets of Success in the brightest female pioneers in the industry.
Welcome back to another inspiring episode of her table. I am so excited to bring my dear friend and long-time colleague in the NBA.
(00:51):
Chris the Chen to the show. She is the EVP of the National Basketball Players Association. She has had an amazing journey in her career in sports and professional development over the last 20 years.
Prior to joining the NBA, Chris served as the Vice President for a player development for the NBA, where she was the first woman to hold a management position in the player development department and the title of Vice President.
(01:17):
She played active roles with the NBA's Workie Transition Program, USA Basketball and the WMBA.
It's such an honor to have Chris here today all the way from New York. She is so inspiring, has changed just so many lives and has some of the most iconic moments that I have seen in sports in the last 20 years.
Pull up a chair and welcome to her table.
(01:38):
Chris I'm so excited to have you on the show today. This has been a long time coming friend, long time coming.
It has been and I'm excited to be here with you both.
We are so proud. It's for like ever. She's like Chris the Chen, Chris the Chen. I can't wait to sit around. I'm like, I need to be Chris the Chen.
So we are really excited about having you all on the show.
(02:00):
No, okay, so I want to jump in. We want to kind of jump a couple of places because your story is so empowering.
And it's 32 years long, so there's that.
So I feel like we might be in another episode. The next one's going to be on set. Well, it's a good time. It's a vibe.
It's a big full of vibe. It'll leave you in a cup of coffee for you. Then you don't have to pay for it.
(02:24):
I love that. I love that. Maybe it'll drink too. Never have to. You want to mix both of it.
Mixed up it. Okay, so you're from New York. Born and raised. Born and raised and you're still in New York.
Yeah, because you can't get out or you just love it so much, you don't want to leave it. No, I, you know, I've been many places in the world, certainly all over the country and New York is home for me.
(02:47):
A lot of our business obviously is here, so it makes sense to be headquartered here.
Don't love the weather.
But, but I do love everything else about it. I do love the convenience of being here. I love the diversity. That's really important to me being.
As someone I'm a black woman, but, you know, but multicultural for sure. So, you know, those pieces are important to me.
(03:11):
And I like the pace. You know, I like the pace. Like I'm a like, let's get it done. Let's go.
She's the one walking on the moving sidewalk.
Yeah, definitely not standing on the moving sidewalk.
She's the one that's like, why are you not utilizing extra steps in your day here?
(03:32):
We get at the airport too, by the way, when people are like, they have to learn how to deep plane because they don't get up the plane.
And they have to learn how to go through security. It's like, get your tray and move it down to the other end.
Up and beat it. There should be a whole class on this. I feel like there should be a lane for like if you travel a lot, experience travelers and those just starting the process.
(03:55):
They should all have like a learning curve. The rest of that actually they used to they they had that at one point frequent travelers and then others.
Our former executive director, maybe, you know, a couple of go Michelle Roberts used to tease me about that in the airport because I said,
oh, the people are slow and they can bear. Like, the tray, move it down to the other end.
(04:16):
Well, like, because you've just like in this world, especially in sports, your time is so critical.
And we're going to spend it. Who you give it to the energy it takes from you is just, it's finite, right? And so I find especially for me like, I have a system.
I know what time to get there. I know where to park. I know where I'm going to get a coffee. I know from one to the bathroom.
I know all the stops along the way. And it's so funny because I feel like I get wrapped up in my own self sometimes when I travel with some of my staff that don't do this a lot.
(04:44):
I'm like, I don't do that. You don't know that. And they're like, no, what I'm like, what?
The funnier thing is when you have to connect. I think you know what airports you want to connect through. Like, yes, yes.
I love going to Houston or connecting through Houston because I know if I can get to E4, I'm going to pop it. And I build that in.
Or if I'm on the West and somehow I'm coming, you know, red eye and I got to go through Seattle. Like I have my shops that I go to while I'm in the airport or Minnesota or, you know, just different airports.
(05:16):
So, you have to develop if you have to travel, which this work requires that, you know, you have to figure out how do you make things work.
I have a big joke with my staff about some of my clothes because sometimes I'm so weird to get that one on the airport because that's my shop.
I shop in the airport.
I'm Chris doesn't the airport. She's like, I already know where I'm stopping and where to go.
(05:40):
Vegas is one for that. I like the Vegas airport shops. They got a couple little spicy things in there. So.
Vegas has JFK has, you know what Atlanta has. But I mean, you know, again, it's about time, right?
We're busy. Our days are really, really long and, you know, where some people may have an opportunity to go shopping on the weekend.
Many of us are, you know, we might be free draft or combine or layoffs or whatever it is. So you have to, I mean, you have to figure it out.
(06:07):
You know, as a, I don't even think it's a gender thing. I just think it's a, it's a work thing. You have to figure it out. So yeah.
So you started as a case manager for the city of New York several, several careers ago.
Right. But that was your first stop in this journey on the.
It was right. It was out of college.
(06:28):
Right. But you've got a degree in a bachelor of arts or international relations.
Yep, I did. I did. And I, and I minored in religious studies.
And now you're one of the most powerful women in the NBA. Like walk me through how you went from the first stop in the elaborate road to this stop today.
Okay. Well, she's like two years later. This is.
(06:50):
I wish. But, but you know, I'll make it quick. But, but I do think the experiences are important.
And I graduated from college and I was a case manager for the city of New York. And I got to work with different populations of people.
The criminally insane. Probably one of my most interesting cases that I had as a case manager that elderly population and then juvenile delinquents and juvenile delinquents as they are labeled are my favorite.
(07:18):
You know, they were my favorite population. The criminally insane piece was interesting in many ways, but it was also very rewarding because you know, when you do that type of work, you get to see the impact.
And often you see it immediately. You know, I had.
And in that case, I had a a gentleman who he yelled and screamed at me every day. Curse me out every day called me things that I'd not even heard before.
(07:49):
And, but at the same time, at the end, you know, he thanked me for the efforts in my work. And he, you know, even though he, you know,
psychologically was where he was, he, you know, his case was several months behind when I inherited it. And so he had a lot of anger, a lot of frustration, you know, and all of that.
(08:14):
But anyway, all of that to say that at the end, you know, he apologized for all the terrible things that he called me.
And in the way that he acted toward me and treated me, but was appreciative of the work. So I only use that example to say that, you know, in a lot of the journeys or a lot of the stops, you have an opportunity to make impact and and affect people's lives in a way that means something to them.
(08:37):
Forget what it means to you. It means something to them. And that's what's important.
And so I did that, you know, for, for a bit and then thought I wanted to go to law school. So, you know, it was paralegal and then became a case manager in the security's litigation systems.
I don't know, I still don't know to this day how I developed an expertise in securities litigation. I remember when I first, you know, when somebody said I was an expert in securities litigation, I'm like, what the heck is that?
(09:09):
Like, what does that even mean?
But, you know, but I developed that expertise and had opportunity to work on really high profile cases that, you know, that afforded me opportunity to travel around the country and review documents and, you know, identify, you know, pieces of evidence that were, you know, that were critical to the settlement of some very high, high profile cases.
(09:35):
And so, you know, I did that and got a lot of W's here. And then decided I was bored, which, you know, which is kind of my personality. If I get bored, you know, then I can no longer be 150% in.
And we, and my family, the whole Butler plan is I like to say we were raised with that work ethic. Like, if you're doing something, whatever it is, it has to be 150%.
(10:05):
Right. If you're cleaning the bathroom, 150%. Like my grandmother would say, I should be able to eat off the floor. Right. So, I mean, with that sort of detail.
And so, I always committed to my work in that very same way. And when my major, you know, my last really, really big case settled, I decided, you know, I don't want to do this anymore. And I don't want to go to law school. Like I thought I did originally. So now, what am I going to do?
(10:32):
And I had a passion for sport. And that was, you know, the very, very top of the 90s. And it was not women were not, you know, popular in sports, women executives, women managers, women staff.
I mean, you just didn't find it at a high level.
The way that you do today. And we're still not where we need to be. But, but we're, you know, but we are getting there. There, you know, there have been some, some inroads made for sure.
(10:59):
So, you know, I was told it was discounted by everyone. Oh, you're crazy. You're, you know, you're not going to be successful. They'll never accept you. And, you know, all of those things. And I had an opportunity to start actually where I am today.
And that's at the players association. And so I worked for Charlie Grantham, you know, as a, as a specialist assistant to him and, and the manager.
(11:25):
And, and they allowed me. He and Isaiah Thomas was the president at that time. They allowed me to, you know, to do the work that I do. They, I was able to sell my transferable skills that I developed and sell them in sport and show how they applied and how I, how they could align.
And, you know, and it worked out and I, you know, I give a lot of credit to them to this day because they empowered me at a time when women were not being empowered in this industry.
(11:57):
And so, you know, people for many different reasons would try to circumvent me or, you know, and Charlie and Isaiah would always say, do you run that by Chris, because Chris approved that. And so they didn't allow people to circumvent me.
And so important. So important. It's so important. It's a skill that I, and it's actually a skill. It is still to be able to have a tough conversation and realize what someone's trying to do without coming across this nasty or ugly or like you're being protected.
(12:30):
Like, hey, like this is her job. Let her do her job. Right. Having your back to tell people, let her do her job. She's good at it. Go talk to her. Don't come around. That's so important. So powerful because so many women don't have that. Right. And it's, you know, we call it now today, you know, the sort of the buzzword. I guess for this all I ship right. We all want all I ship. And so, but, but again, you know, this was at a time when there were no buzzwords. There were, you know, that just kind of wasn't what was happening.
(12:59):
But they had the respect and the confidence and my ability, even though I was coming from a different, you know, a different industry. And so, you know, so I did that. And it, you know, it was great. And, you know, they allowed me great visibility. And I was able to do many, many things. And then, you know, as happens in many organizations, leadership changes.
(13:22):
And so when it changed, I left. And consulted for Nike for three years, you know, did that and loved it.
It was, you know, it was a lot of fun. It was out of New York. And, you know, it was some troubleshooting, some events management, you know, player facing, you know, in many regards, lead youth facing, youth facing.
(13:47):
And, but also, you know, another really good opportunity to do some great work and stay connected. And then David Stern and Adam Solver, David was the commissioner at that time. And Adam, I think might have been the president of MBA, at that time, they asked me to come, you know, and help launch the W, which I did. And, you know, they said, I'd have to sever my ties with Nike.
(14:15):
I did that and came to the NBA. And they said after the inaugural season, they would transfer me to to men's basketball. And I was like, well, okay.
And I, you know, again, but it was, you know, I had a great relationship with with Adam when I was at the NBA, you know, the first time, you know, we had, we were.
(14:40):
Counterparts, he was special assistant to Adam, I was special assistant to Charlie. And so, you know, it worked out well. Adam's great. You know, we had a great relationship. And, and then I came over and, and, you know, learned about some things that I didn't know.
There was a position that I think, you know, I don't think it exists today, but was called broadcast is on. And, and so something that that happens now that didn't happen then was, you know, NBC lifetime.
(15:09):
And ESPN had to cross promote the games. And so that was my job was to liaison with those three networks and make sure folks had the information that they needed to do that. And it was very unusual, you know, back then in 97.
I mean, it just wasn't common. But again, you know, did that. And then, you know, went over to men's basketball and had different roles. And then ultimately was transitioned.
(15:40):
I covered my good, very good friend. I call her my twin, Leah Wilcox, K2, I think you know, making, I don't know if you know, Leah, but Leah was going out on maternity leave. And they asked me if I would run, Leah's department while she was gone.
And then she did that. And then she came back and Leah and I had, you know, we were like planning to take over the world.
(16:03):
So, you know, and so, but they it was funny and and and Russ Granick and others at that time was brilliant. They said, you know, we couldn't have two people with strong player relationships in the same group.
And then they started throughout the organization, which was smart. So they transferred, they transitioned me to a group that was then called player programs now called player development.
(16:30):
It was run by Satch Sanders. Historically, it had been all former players, you know, right and rightfully so. And so they'd not had a woman in their group.
And so, you know, I used to laugh with Satch now and and did back then, you know, it was just an unusual situation.
(16:54):
The learning curve for us.
Learning her, right?
But them, not for me.
Yeah.
For them, it's like, you want to help me through this one.
Yeah. So, so, so yeah, it was really funny and we have, you know, we laugh about it today, but it was a very different environment.
Right. So, I mean, you know, was it uncomfortable? Was it just intense? Intaminating?
(17:15):
Like was I was not intimidated. I mean, Megan, you don't know me Kate. Kate does, but yeah, I'm like, yeah, I'm five feet tall, but I, but you know, I had to fight, you know, my entire life.
So, so, so this was, yeah. So it's just like, you know, it's like it's cool. And I want to get along with everyone. And I want everybody to, you know, I want us to to all like be aligned and go forward.
(17:39):
But, you know, but it's different and people have to get to know you. And if they, you know, the perception can be whatever it is.
But my work ethic again has just always been strong. And so, you know, there, there was, I always tell this story because I think it's, it's, I don't know if everybody thinks it's funny. I think it's hilarious.
So I, I came in one day and everyone's office was empty.
(18:04):
And I looked at my calendar. I guess there could be a meeting or like, like, where is everybody? And I'm like, look around and like no one's around.
And so I knock on Satch's door and no one answers the door, but the door is closed.
And so at that time, you had to be dressed to go to work. And so, you know, I have all sorts of things swirling around in my head, you know.
(18:31):
And so I take off my shoe and I start beating on the door.
My personality, you sense? Like, let me be a little louder.
Yeah, let me be a little louder because I was like.
And so he opened the door and he said, yes, and they were all sitting in here.
We're all sitting in there. And I said, I said, is there a meeting?
(18:56):
And he looked back and he said, well, you know, yeah, I said, are you talking about player programs, business?
And he said, yeah, I said, well, pull up a chair because I'm joining the meeting.
And so he said, again, pull it up my friends. Let's go.
And he said, well, well, all right. And they pulled up, you know, he pulled up a chair and it was fine. And there was, there were no bad feelings.
(19:21):
But I said to him after that, I said, you know what? From now on, we are going to have six minutes of bonding time every day.
Because you are going to learn to like me. And so, and I knew him before.
So, you know, it's not like I didn't know my new one when I was at the, at the PA.
But, you know, then we, like, we got along great and everything was fine.
(19:45):
And, you know, he and rightfully so, you know, was protective of the players and thought that maybe the introduction, you know, of woman into this space to discuss the things that we had to discuss, you know, maybe off putting to our players.
And so, you know, he said, look, if the guys are not going to talk to you, then I'm not going to be able to have you in front.
(20:08):
And I said, well, I said, I'm not, I'm not arrogant or cocky, I said, but there's a part in me that thinks that they may talk to me more because I'm a woman.
And most, you know, men are raised by their mothers, grandmothers and aunts. And so, there's, it's a different approach and it's not competitive.
(20:31):
It's just a different approach, right? So, you know, there are things that I can't discuss with players. And I always say, I didn't play, you know, I feel like I'm a player because I've lived through all of it with them on and off the court and, you know, all that.
But, but it's not the same, but it is a complimentary team that can be, that can be formed if you, if you are strategic.
(20:56):
And so, you know, I was able to have great impact with our guys and, you know, they knew me from my, you know, time at the players association, they knew me from Nike, I developed relationships, I, you know, developed trust.
Because I always say, you know, it goes in the vault and it doesn't come out. And, you know, what I know will die with me.
(21:17):
I'm not going to ever write a book or any of this crap that people really have to write a book. I'm like, about what, you know, I can write a book about approach.
Yeah.
And how to engage and how to develop relationships, but never about the experiences that my players have had good better and different unless they've asked, unless they asked me to share it.
So, so, so, Chrissy, you just went through this whole thing.
(21:41):
And I'm sitting here, no, no, I'm sitting here and all because what you started on and your journey and path, right, was not by design.
It does not sound like it does not sound like you had a mood board with like your dream job on it and then you had your road of how to road map.
It's so funny because, you know, even for myself and Megan is she's in her career, like sometimes you have this dream job that you want and you miss the actual purpose in your life because you're so focused on what you think you should be doing instead of letting the universe bring you to places you can contribute because everybody skills that's different.
(22:19):
Everyone's talented in different ways.
And I think it's like, listen to your story. It's like you had such a unique talent and skill set that could be applied at any stage, age and path in your career that it was whether that was a leadership or a support role, right, it's needed.
Yeah.
What classes do you wish you would have taken in school or helped?
(22:41):
Or is there a class that would have prepared you more?
It's interesting because some things I think and I've learned this, you know, you sometimes can't be taught, you know, you can't, there are some things you can't teach, right, you can't, I mean, people always say, how do you talk to players?
(23:09):
Like people, you know, I don't know.
You know, I'm respectful, I'm big on that and, you know, I'm older than most of the universe, but I make sure that, you know, that players understand that I respect them and that I hear them and that I'm acting on what they say, but there's not anything.
(23:33):
You know, I always think, oh, you know, I wish I had gone to law school, I wish I had done this and not really, not really, you know, I am not really, I think that that a lot of of what I have learned, I learned in my roles long the way, you know,
like experience, right, which is oftentimes, is like experience and oftentimes that's more valuable than a classroom because the book is not applied a lot in real life, unfortunately.
(24:02):
No, it's not an end, but you also, I mean, part of that ability to be able to develop the skill set or learn, you have to have leaders that empower you, right, and that put you in positions, they're not threatened, you know, like I, I had, I worked for some really great people, you know, in my,
along the way, you know, I, I mean, if I go back when I was at, you know, when I worked for the city, I feel rough and great as supervisor ever, you know, heard me, understood me, let me do my thing, got to the law firm, I had Joe Marillo, who was a kick behind attorney and, and, and, and,
(24:43):
his name was DJ O'Brien was the partner, I mean, they were, and Bernie McCarthy, they like, they let me go, you know, they let me, they let me do my thing and then, you know, you know, Charlie and Isaiah, I've talked about them, such and then I had Steve Mills and Mike Bantam and all of these great leaders that allowed me to work and, and, and, and empowered me and then, you know, you had the beauty of David Stern and, and,
(25:10):
Russ Granick and Adam and you know just Marctaed them like all of these these wonderful people that you could work with and for that really wanted to partner you know of course there were there were women that were
involved I mean you know folks know you know obviously Kathy Barons if I think about here at the PA show Roberts and you know you know that the that was part of me coming back you know along with the
(25:35):
at the urging of the executive committee so you know you have to have leaders that that let you
develop along the way and that trust you to take a you know to take a risk and understand that you you know you may be on to something you know I always laugh about
Mike Bantam who let our department for a while former player and I learned a lot about leadership from him because he allowed you to
(26:04):
you know he didn't always agree with what you said so you know you didn't get that but but he would say
you talk and he was like but I'm yeah but but but but he but you know he did something really great you know on the occasion like yeah I said I don't I don't know I don't trust it but I'm gonna let you do it
right and and if it fails
(26:27):
it'll be a different conversation right and and and you got to love that because he because I had to because then you have to think about what kind of risk am I taking how confident am I in this
thought or this idea right that I'm gonna that is that this is gonna work but he did you know he and then and when I got the wins he came back and said you would always say you know
(26:50):
a kid I didn't think that was gonna work but but you know good you know you did great and he you know and he continued to empower me and and supported me and and would make sure you know I mean people have to make sure that you continue to
to be elevated yeah I feel like it's so important because like Kate and I talk about all the time where we're celebrating women but you also have to
(27:12):
like acknowledge the man that also lift you and like you know create well that's why I made it a point of doing that yeah and I love that and like when you're
talking about Isaiah Thomas and everything like really making sure that you're included and that you're this vital part of this you know MVP and the organization
from like an audience point of view can you kind of go over we're briefly talking about how you're in that Lanna you're you know you're all real
(27:34):
place to come to LA can you kind of touch on basically your job as the VP of chief player engagement for them BPA I know it's a huge role and this is a loaded question
right so yeah so in in in my role I oversee six departments as chief player engagement officer those departments are
(27:57):
mental health and wellness player health player programs
art off the court which is a transition program player matters and then
um we we have a career development department but we're actually in the process we're we're going through a
(28:22):
reorganize structure so a lot of that is moving around and and changing but but in that oversight those are all
player facing groups and and I also have oversight of our our drug program and crisis management so it you
know often you're you're deploying or you are deployed um for certain reasons you know not all of them
(28:43):
public you know not all of them catastrophic but just in need of strategy um and so you know that's what it
it takes you have to you know you have to be up and and going we have our agent seminar um
next week in LA and so you know I will be I will be there for that um to talk about
(29:05):
something I was going to talk about a little bit later but you know what we we have an initiative or a
program that I started when I came called first call meaning that the players association is your
first call and this is sort of the team and this is how it helps and it's not in competition with
agents or agencies it's actually a support or a collaboration with yeah so that the player is
(29:26):
getting the best service and so you know I often we'll talk about that in different groups and
talk about our drug program and coming forward and you know something that that those things that
can create issues for our players you know in in our industry steroids and performance
enhancing drugs because of you know they're you think you're taking a vitamin it's not really
(29:50):
a vitamin and it's contaminated and so we just have all these issues and so I like to make sure to
the extent that I can uh at least top level making sure that that the folks that are supporting our
players have an understanding of it and they know who to call when something comes up you know if a
player is being extorted you know we need to know about that if there are you know our other issues
(30:12):
that have to be addressed so um yeah I always think it's so interesting because Megan I call Chris
she's like my she's my first call if I don't know where to go I call Chris and I'm like she it might
not be you I always tell her this might be you but I know it's been me down whatever lane I need to
go yeah it's so important that we talk about it because a lot of times especially in this day
(30:35):
and age everything's public fast quick you can't get it back yeah and so trying to encourage agents
representatives agencies right to have a better working relationship for me is important with the
MBA because oftentimes everyone does like this they just want to hold everything close don't talk to
anybody but me and I'll fix it and I have done that in my career it has not worked out well for me
(31:00):
it has been very much a path of like putting handle that a different way and how to better
outcome but knowing that you have people that you can call and say hey don't judge me don't judge
my client don't judge the situation what should I do what would you advise is so imperative because
so much of what these guys do especially in any athlete right it's judged by somebody somewhere
(31:25):
and so to be able to have people in your corner that are not going to judge you they're just going
to tell us the information and we're going to advise you on the best way to handle that
is really what krissey you do for me because i'm like christina this my is down crazy but here's
what i got today nothing is crazy nothing shocks me anymore i'm like interesting i don't even say wow
anymore i'm just like interesting but really trying to lean into that because there was for a long time
(31:51):
in my experience a big divide between the league office the players association and then the agents
and all three of those groups play imperative roles in these athletes i mean i'm talking
without them the wheel doesn't turn right no being wanted to work together right because it was very
territorial it was very like the association wanted this the pa wanted this and then your agency
(32:15):
wants this and really understanding and getting to know those people when you talked earlier about
relationships right of like even if it's just meeting people and finding where they live what they
like with their days like it's so important because you have people pulling at you all day long
these guys and people pulling at them all day long and so to have that relationship that's
softer easier tone you talked about this earlier sometimes it's easier for a woman to have a
(32:41):
really hard conversation and it's really better than a man it's just what's the tone temperament
and read the room the way for you has been an experience that you might have had where you've had
to have a really up to today probably a lot but tough conversation to get to the other side right
like wasn't really hard to talk about but we're going to come out the other side whether that's
(33:04):
with a player or a staff member so they're you know that's a it's a really interesting question so
I think there are a lot of those conversations that you and the having you know especially
from me I'll use the drug program as an example right because sometimes someone may test positive
(33:27):
and they may not have any idea about the who would why or where sometimes they do but sometimes
but sometimes they you know but but but but but a lot of times they don't and there are
consequences you know detesting positive if it's if it's a steroid or perform
(33:48):
it's a performance enhancing drug it's a 25 game suspension if it is what we call the band substance
it is a dismissal and disqualification with only an opportunity to reapply right so those are really
hard conversations and what I always say to guys is okay look you've tested positive
(34:10):
this is not you know we have some work ahead of us no the main this is you know yeah well I mean
the only thing is is that normally when I'm having that conversation it's because we've had
two samples tested when they're when the collection occurs there's an A sample and a B sample so
A comes back positive I automatically have the B sample tested but it's it's rare that that will
(34:32):
come back negative sometimes it does but but rare but but but what comes out of that is that you
have to break the news right you say look you've tested positive these are the consequences here are
some things that we need to do I need you to backtrack and give me all of the information surrounding
this date I need you to look at these things I need you to you know so we go through the whole process
(34:55):
and I always say look worst case scenario is that there will be that there will be this penalty
but either way we're going to come out on the other end you're going to be fine right so if
you are penalized because there is no you know there's not a mistake or whatever we have to go
(35:15):
from this point on that's all we can do and so here is the strategy to recover and guys really
like the concept of from this point on because there's never any judgment in my conversation I don't
I don't I don't care about I just don't I want I always say guys I want you to be safe I don't
(35:39):
care about any of the rest of it I just want you to be safe I don't care who how why
I just want you to be safe right and I and I also say there are I'm in your corner all the way
to try to help you get to the other end whatever we got to do we can cry it out fight it out you know
well I but I but I have rules right my rule is you can't lie to me because you put
(36:04):
yourself at a disadvantage and you put me at a disadvantage as I'm trying to negotiate on your
behalf so we have that I said there are I said the guys are two things that you can't come to me for
because I can't help you if you're accused of rape or accused of charm less station
(36:26):
I will be helpful if you actually did it not your person right I just I'm you'd have to see somebody
like it I can't help you um and they under everybody understands that and they they respect that
anything else we can look try to figure out we can work those are are things for me that
personally that just aren't unknown right so um so those are the conversations I mean you have to
(36:54):
all players understand we might not get the win on this but but even still you're going to be okay
this is how we're gonna fix it this is how we'll repair your image this is how we'll work with your
agent this is how we'll do this we will engage our our PR teams we will you know we will get
we will get through it so those are the the things and and and it's it's great right like I
(37:19):
think about it you know again it's just sort of the the greatness of of our guys Chris Paul was our
our former president of the of the union and now we have CJ McCullum and you know they're so
easy to talk to and and Chris thinks nothing of referring guys and say okay you gotta call Chris
and Chris is actually you know the reason that I'm back at the PA um because he he was insistent
(37:47):
that that that that that I you know that that I come but I mean but he also you know I bring it up
to say that he's you know he understands the resource sources he refers guys to our players are
executive committee you know Andre Guadalajas now at the helm you know they they will direct back
(38:10):
to these resources so that we can help our players and there's a confidence in the ability to do
to do the work and get guys to the other side oh Chris but like how do you train your staff to
like I always look at this like they're I'm not going to do this forever uh there's me a day I don't
wake up right so how are you training your staff and I think it speaks a lot to culture I think it
(38:33):
speaks a lot to do teamwork collaboration and I also think it speaks to experience but like how
do you train your staff to I always try and train them better than me right like I want you to be
better than me learn from my losses right let's share them learn from them because I want you to be
better than me that's not necessarily the norm like that is not the norm in a lot of industries how do
(38:53):
you cultivate that it's hard um it depends I mean right there there are I have oversight of six
departments so it you know different you know player health those what it does mental health and
wellness but for crisis management specifically it's you have to really want to do the work right
and so I mean because it's not for but like it's not just a job like you have to be all in or all
(39:18):
out because you can't you can't straddle um one one these issues and so you have to you have to
be passionate about it and once you identify someone who is passionate about it really wants to do it
wants to learn then you're in you know you're you can start to train so I have a young woman on my
staff Ricky Dean needs a group that's now called Player Matters right and she's I've been you know
(39:44):
she's been with me for a long time she took a little break for a second but but but anyway she's
back and and she's great and so you know initially she wasn't involved in the in the drug program at
all but you know I started to bring her in slowly so now she's doing she's working um I have oversight
over but she's working on the on the GLeague drug program so you have to you know you get people in
(40:09):
and and then they start to experience different situations and you help them get through them
and then they begin to develop their own they develop their own style their own way of approaching
and and and managing it but you you have to want to do that work yeah that part of the work right you
have to want to deal with those things it's not because it's it's not the sexy job it's not sexy
(40:35):
there's nothing cute about it's mentally exhausting too because it's funny you talked about your
first stop with with you know the mentally insane right? Criminal Insane yeah Criminal Insane sorry
Criminal Insane don't come for me is that it wrong nobody you're all listening guys say wrong sorry
you know how it is people wait for you to say something not right then they just in the comments
(40:55):
they're like you know you are oftentimes the crux right of the really pivotal moment of this is
this is a really shitty time in somebody's life and you have to be the sounding board the adult
but also the reality check none of those things come with the thank you on the front end they always
(41:16):
come with the thank you on the back end right like then it's just everybody's out for me you're
just probably a lot of yelling a lot of crying a lot of whole lot of everything and then it's it's
not that like you leave for the day and you're like well I just accomplished July you're like wow
I got through that day how do you take care of your own mental health in that setting because that's
you know for you to be able to give that to someone else you also have to take care of yourself
(41:39):
I think it's the approach I think it's the way that I look at it because I you know I'm looking
how can we get the win for this player how can we get the win and so that's where my energy is
directed into that it's not like oh my gosh this is so dancing like I don't that's just not even
my personality it's like okay we got a problem you just really got to do I need you to do this you
(42:03):
to do that you know there's a lot of collaboration that goes on with you know sometimes with different
departments sometimes not depending upon what it is but but I look at it that way it's like how can
how can we get through this not like oh my gosh this is going to be such a challenge I just
never approach anything like that it's like okay here's the deal we got this problem we got to
(42:27):
solve it I need persons A B and C or not this is what I need you to do you know and how are we
going to team up to do this and and and figure it out you know as it relates to myself you know
I think you have to have a balance I have a fun my son Joel who's actually in sort of we're in
(42:48):
the same business so it's kind of fun he works for the Westchester and the next player development
coach and so you know I have that balance because my son is my pride and joy he's my heart and soul
so so there's that thought I always have that to look forward to I mean I think also you know people
believe in different things I've been a Buddhist for more than 40 years and so you know I think the
(43:10):
way that I manage stress issues I think is different from from how many people manage it I don't you
know I look at it I look at problems holistically and I try to figure out how we got there and then
okay now I know how we got there how do we get from there to where we need to go to get the win
to get you back on the court to be healthy and to approach this in a way that that makes sense how
(43:35):
do we recover it's my focus that was such an amazing episode with Chris the Chen so many stories
so many path to her career make sure you guys stay tuned there's gonna be a part two coming up soon
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