Shetellia Riley Irving - Family, Business, and Breaking Barriers

In this week’s episode of Her Table with Kate and Megan, we’re thrilled to welcome the trailblazing Shetellia Riley Irving. Far more than just Kyrie Irving’s agent and stepmother, Shetellia has forged a remarkable path as the only Black woman sports agent in the league.

Join us as Shetellia shares her incredible journey from her early days as a sales representative at 1010 WINS to her impactful role in launching a contemporary radio station in New York. Discover how her time at Black Entertainment Television honed her negotiation skills and shaped her unique approach to the sports industry.

Shetellia opens up about the challenges and triumphs of working alongside her stepson Kyrie Irving, navigating the complex world of sports with a blend of business acumen and familial support. Hear firsthand how she balances transparency and mentorship, ensuring that Kyrie, and by extension, her clients, get more than just a cheerleader—they get a powerhouse advocate.

Don’t miss this inspiring conversation with one of the most dynamic and influential figures in sports today. Tune in to learn how Shetellia Riley Irving is redefining the role of a sports agent and breaking down barriers along the way!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This episode is brought to you by Tina's vodka.

(00:02):
My name is Shatalya Riley Irving.
I am the CEO of all Even Sports and this is her table.
Now you see her.
You are magnificent!
Welcome to her table, the podcast that shines a spotlight on the badass women who are redefining the game.

(00:22):
Join host Kate Foley and Megan Martinez as Pay Unlock the Secrets of Success
in the brightest female pioneers in the industry.
Welcome back to another amazing episode of her table.
We are so fortunate.
I'm so excited.
My dear friend, Shatalya Riley Irving is going to join us today.
She is an executive in the music industry and ad industry.

(00:44):
And she now wears a new hat for Kyrie Irving.
Not only is she Kyrie Irving's agent, but she also worked with BET for many years.
We are so excited to have her in our new set in Las Vegas.
Please welcome Shatalya Riley Irving to the show.
Good.
Good gift. I hope you can pass that test.
I didn't do anything.

(01:05):
I just told you what you needed here, which was you were going to do it.
Don't you look adorable.
Don't you look at people now and they're like, how the fuck did you pass that test?
No.
And I'll tell you why because I hadn't taken a test in years.
And so I remember taking it and I was like, this isn't so bad.

(01:29):
Like you had three hours and I finished it in 45 minutes.
And that little angel on my shoulder was like, girl, go back to the end.
Check it again.
Check it again.
Check it again.
Check it again.
Check it again.
What happened when you went by change?
I changed probably 80% of the answers.
Why?
Well, because the hard part is its multiple choice and it's electronic.
If it was written, you can cross out, I know this isn't true.

(01:50):
I know this isn't true.
Yes, sure.
So you can get from four down to two.
Right.
This is electronic.
So you're always looking at the four.
And then you start second guessing yourself.
And then you don't remember what you second guessed yourself with because you didn't cross anything out.
So then you almost have to look at every question again.
Wow.
Because for me, I don't know anything about the agency life and it's so fascinating to me.

(02:11):
So just like hearing about having to take a test and then from there,
like what's the process like?
Once you take the test, you're in.
Yeah, once you take a test.
But I think that we're taught to read headlines and blurbs.
Yeah.
And so what you're training yourself to do is not to read the headline and the blurbs.
Yeah, you have to like almost, you have to think they're trying to trick you.

(02:32):
Yeah.
And that was my key was like, they give you three sentences,
but you really only need one.
The two are meant to distract you.
It's like, on fire, but we pay attention here.
So you have to learn like, these things aren't true.
Okay, well, what is it asking me to make this not true?
Right.
So it's almost like they're trying to trick you.
But it is, it's an interesting thing because you take the test and you pass the test.

(02:56):
Yeah.
And then there's nothing.
Yeah.
Which is fascinating.
And I actually said to the MVP, I think that I'm like, you guys need to have like a year long,
like residency or follow along or something.
It's hard to do because this business is so vindictive.
Yeah.
But like doctors don't just pass the test.
Like lawyers don't just pass a bar and then they get to go.

(03:17):
No representing.
Yeah, you have to, there should, because so many young people are taking this test.
Asking it, but they have zero experience in business, in life, or understand the ecosystem
of the NBA.
And then they're just out there with the exact same credentials she and I have.
Yeah.
So you're like, we're the same, but we're not.

(03:39):
Right.
You know what I mean?
And it's hard.
So for kids coming into the league to navigate experiences one thing, but actual applied experience
is another.
Yeah.
And so that's what I think is, is got to continue to evolve.
But yeah.
And I'm hoping with like Andre Godalla, he'll say like we need to have a better process here,
but it's just an interesting place to be because you pay a fee, you take a test, and then you're

(04:05):
pay a fee every year.
And then you're endless regardless of if you have a client.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
To keep your, yeah, to keep it, you have to pay.
But if you don't have somebody within five years, then you have to take the test over.
You have to take the test over because it's not applied.
It can still stay in it as an agent, as long as you pay your dues.
Wow.
So it's an, it's an interesting, and it's funny.
I'm meant to ask.
I don't think Katie would know, but like, I don't know what the WNBA process is.

(04:28):
I thought it was just an application.
It could be.
After you've been an agent for three, I thought it was an application after three years
of being an agent.
I thought it still.
Don't quote me on that because I'm still like, somebody comes from me on every show.
And I'm like, just stop.
Relax.
I said it wrong.
All humans.
But it's, it's an interesting thing.

(04:49):
So yeah, you can literally take the test pass and sign someone within days with no experience.
Well, I feel like for you two, you're in a very unique situation because you're representing
Kyrie.
And he's been like a son to you your whole life.
He is your son.
Yeah.
How's that been?
And what's that like?
It is a high stakes game because you, I can't afford to fail.

(05:12):
Like he's with me forever.
There's not this situation of, all right.
I'm gonna fire you and that's that.
And I don't see you.
The holiday is a birthday.
Like you're stealing.
Yeah.
A part no matter what.
Right.
So, I think there's more pressure managing somebody within your family versus managing somebody

(05:33):
that's not.
But that like, there's no, it's not a, it's not a, you walk away and that's it.
Yeah.
You're still connected.
It's hard though on the other side to the coin though.
Because like you also have the comfortability of like you have a lot more grace.
No.
But I mean, but I mean like it's more pressure.
You're not going to be destitute, put out like, can't survive.

(05:54):
Like if it was someone that fired you, that was your only source of income.
Like you know what I mean?
Yeah.
So it is nice in that sense, but the pressure is there because the expectation is there.
Well, I think we as a family pretty much have our own.
Yeah.
Right.
So when you think about it, whether or not it's his dad or me, I spent many years in
media.
And developed an entire career based off of ad sales.

(06:21):
So it's not like if he fired you would be destitute.
Right.
You won't.
You still be okay just because I think you know, we have a ton of business experience.
But I just, it always, I chuckle because people are like, oh, that is nepotism.
Hey.
Why do you think that is?

(06:41):
I just think people want to have something to say.
I agree.
I think it's easy.
I just say it's not, people never want to give credit, especially when you think about women,
credit to women for success.
Right.
So when guys do it, it's like, yay, look at my boy.
He didn't.
The boys club cheers you on.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(07:01):
When it's a woman, oh my god, she, you know, how did she do that?
That's literally what it is.
Well, how did she do that?
It's never like, I knew she could do it.
It's always, well, how did she do it?
It's like condescending, like, are you sure?
Are you sure?
Instead of like, hell yes, girl.
You know what I mean?
It's sad.
And I think it's especially in a heightened situation with higher profile athletes.

(07:22):
It's easier to be the how than the yes.
Or the why?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because I think that it's, when it's a guy, it's, it's always the pat on the back.
You did a great job.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When it's, it's how, why?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And are you qualified?
And I hate getting that from women.
I know.
Because I think we're our strongest credit and we shouldn't be.

(07:45):
No.
Because we all know how hard it is, how hard it is.
How hard it is.
We all experience that like that glass ceiling really does exist.
Yeah.
And when I hear women say, yeah, well, is she qualified?
I'm like, are you?
Well, and guess what?
If she's not, who cares?
She did it anyways.
We promote her.
But we allow men to be qualified.
Right.
We just had a conversation about men taking a test to become an MBA agent.

(08:10):
And then two days later, they represent somebody and no one questions the qualifications.
Totally.
But in the case of a woman, it's immediately she qualified.
What did she have to do to get this?
Well, how did she get that?
Right.
And so that's the disappointing.
Yeah.
Well, I do think like one of the things that's interesting especially, and I don't,

(08:31):
I can't only speak from MBA, but I always find it funny.
The recycle bin for men in this industry is literally it's like Houdini.
You can have a colossal, fireable fuck up.
Go to the recycling bin for, you know, six months, nine months.
Go get bounced around, cleaned off, whatever.

(08:54):
And then pop right back into the same or advanced role that you were in.
And it's like, what?
That's just, that's not just the MBA.
But it's all industries.
I, you see it in media, you see it in advertising, you see it in package goods, you see it.

(09:15):
People, you, you look at them and you're like, how did you like, can I ask why?
How and when would you do?
How do we understand this?
Yeah, so me understand how you got here.
Yeah.
And you're right.
There's this recycling.
And it's sad because I feel like it's the comfortability of recycling.

(09:38):
Like, we know, like if I look at franchises, right, they're like, okay, they built this franchise.
So no matter what they did, right, wrong or different, everyone lives their own life.
Well, if they built it, then they should be able to build here.
There's never a like, okay, let's find a different way.
It's like, we're not worried about what happened over here.
It won't happen here.
But I feel like for women, they're looking for what can happen.

(09:59):
I don't think they ever really think about giving us a chance.
I think we, I think that way.
I think that we oftentimes are chosen because I sure don't want him.
He did.
He did.
This one I got a whole bunch of stuff.
Oh, I'll just take her.
Yeah.
And we need exactly.

(10:20):
And one of the things that few people talk about is that when women lead, you see companies
have success.
100%.
And people just, they never had that conversation.
It's this conversation of like women turn things.
Well, problem solvers.
We're into it.
We build cultures.
We're genuine.

(10:40):
We have empathy.
Yeah, right.
And we look at everything through a lens of like, I'm always like, how can I bring people
along?
Not is this going to dim my light?
And I think that's as you climb a ladder, as you get to a place, even, I mean, you look
at it in sports and you look at teams, even players are this way.
Is this going to take away from what I can get?
What I can contribute to?
And you're seeing a shift now amongst players to take less or to build a better culture situation,

(11:07):
a winning franchise because I firmly believe the true definition of a leader is what they
leave, not what they get.
Exactly.
And when you can become that person, you look at things way differently.
Yeah.
Like someone asked me yesterday, no recess me yesterday, he goes, would you ever like quit
your job and do this show full time?
And I was like, no, this is the show isn't my job.
Right.
I have a job.

(11:27):
I was like, he was like, well, what if you had to?
I was like, then I would leave this for the next me.
I'm just building this for the next me.
This isn't Kate.
This is a show that I happen to host, not the definition of who I am.
And I think it's taken a long time for me and my career to understand that you're, it's
what you do.
It's not who you are.
And this industry requires so much.

(11:48):
You get lost in it.
Right.
So, so fast that you're like, I'm okay not doing that now.
I'm okay not having to jump through 87 hoops.
No, I'm good.
I don't need you to tell me what you have to jump through.
Like six plus six is 92.
Yes.
And I think that's the evolution of life.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.

(12:09):
Is that I think if you talk to me in my 20s, 20s, I think I, I was striving because I was
in radio and it was the challenge of being a New York City.
I was born and raised in Houston, had no family there and surviving in an industry that
was not favorable towards people of color and people of color that were female.

(12:33):
And so a lot of that was trying to prove the naysayers wrong.
After that, I was like, you know what?
You got to meet people where they are.
This is, this is who I am.
And I've become super unapologetic as I've gotten older.
When do you think you hit that mark?

(12:53):
Because our listeners always ask us like, when's the turn?
I will never tell my age.
They probably, people with all of the data breaches could probably look it up.
But I'm sure it's going to be a year.
I'm like, you're a pedian now.
So just stop it.
I would never tell my age.
No, when I saw you, I was like, I don't know what I expected.
But I'm like, is she like, how old is she?
She might age.
You look amazing.

(13:14):
I don't know.
Thank you.
But I think in probably my mid-40s, I had this metamorphosis and started to think about
life and things differently because I think in your mid-40s, you hit this space of looking
back, right?

(13:36):
Because you're like, you're moving forward, right?
You're like, I'm trying to accomplish this.
I'm raising a family.
I'm raising kids.
I'm doing all of these things.
And so in my mid-40s, I was like, okay, everything seems to be going in the right direction.
Let me look back and let me kind of look at where were some of the mistakes I made.

(13:58):
How could I have done things differently?
And if I had done those things differently, would I have been happy with the way my life
would have been?
And so...
It's not like reflection period, right?
I'm like, holy shit, I did that.

(14:18):
Because you're in it and you don't realize it.
You don't think it's a storm.
Right.
And you're either going into a storm or you're coming out of a storm, but there's always a storm.
And so trying to navigate that and then navigate not only yourself and a woman in a male
space is always hard because you're under the microscope.
So you're not even really paying attention and you're trying to survive.
Correct.
I'm not thriving at certain points in my life.

(14:39):
I was just surviving.
Correct.
I'm done with surviving.
I'm good.
Like someone else can do a better.
How about it?
So I haven't gotten to the survival because I am deeply competitive.
And I had to accept that.
Even though I'm a person that I play volleyball, but I just play volleyball to keep the team alive.

(15:04):
I didn't play volleyball because I do have to play volleyball.
My best friend at the time in high school and we just talked about this.
She's like, "Grum joined a volleyball team and they needed one more person to essentially
make the team functional."
And I was like, "All right, I'll come with you."
And I would sit on the bench and watch and what have you.
But I am deeply competitive and that was something that I had to accept about myself because

(15:31):
I didn't understand that.
Right?
Because of your thought.
I believe that as women, we should take what we're given.
And I was like, "Oh no, no, no, no, no, no."
Like I deserve this seat at this table and I have ethics.
I'm not going to do anything to have a seat at the table.
But I know I'm smart enough.
I know I'm strategic enough to have this seat at the table.

(15:55):
And it's not what I deserve.
It's what should happen.
Because I've done the work.
Yeah, you've earned it.
You don't deserve it.
You earn it.
Right?
You can help the next person.
Exactly, right?
Yeah.
And I think that's what's interesting.
What's been one of the most in your career?
What's been one of the most proudest moments that you've had?
And it can be in any escape, right?
Mm.

(16:16):
I've had a few.
I'm trying to think proudest, proudest.
Or like the one you feel like you accomplished.
You didn't expect yourself to it.
You know what I mean?
You didn't grow up saying like, "I'm going to do this."
No.
You had it.
And you're like, "Ah, I did that."
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So there are two that are like this.

(16:39):
And I think the first one was moving to New York and surviving.
When did you do that?
That was in 1994.
Oh, okay.
I can't show you.
I'll figure out the age right now.
No, I'm not.
I'm just trying to figure out.
I'm not even that good at math.
I'm not even that good at math.
I'm not even that good at math.
I'm not even that good at math.
I'm not even that good at math.
I'm not even that good at math.
I'm not even that good at math.
I'm not even that good at math.
I'm not even that good at math.

(17:00):
I'm not even that good at math.
I'm not even that good at math.
I thought it was just like all of these like atoms were coming together, right?
But it was sort of moving here and figuring it out.
Yeah.
And just being...
New York's a tough place to do that.
Oh my god.
It is a concrete jungle.

(17:21):
And just figuring it out and being able to thrive in an environment where I didn't go to
high school with these people.
I didn't go to college with them.
I didn't know them since I was two.
It's a different culture too.
It's totally a different culture.
And there were just people along the way that embraced me and made sure that they were

(17:41):
vested in my success.
Right.
And so I'm always, whenever I do these types of interviews, I always try to pay homage to
them because they didn't have to.
Whether or not it was the family that befriended me in Staten Island when I first moved here.
And the peer family.
Like I moved here and I was basically homeless.
And I always tell this story because I followed love.

(18:04):
I was in love with this guy and followed him.
And I'm not going to get into that because he's not here to defend himself because I'm sure
he has a different story for what happened.
But I was at the biggest mistake of his life.
So whatever it is, it's his own loss.
Well, no, not well.
I just think that as a woman, one of the things that you learn is pillow talk.

(18:24):
And I was just like, okay.
Yeah.
I was at the pillow talk.
And so moved here and was homeless and their family really without knowing me or knowing anything
about me gave me a place to stay.
And so they were a part of the foundation in which I built from a career perspective.
And the second thing is what I've done and have been able to help carry with.

(18:49):
And here's career.
And so those are the two things that go back to back and forth.
But I think they're all connected because it was God's purpose because who would have thought
that like you're moving to New York or Friday the 13th on a one way ticket from Houston.
I don't know why I did this.
That stopped in three different cities to follow love and like multiple 30 years later,

(19:11):
this is where you are.
So it was God's plan.
I'm in the NFL space.
Okay.
And so for me, like when I saw Nicole Lynn, who is Jalen Hertz agent, love her.
And I started to see more and more diverse women starting to like really take on these roles.
That's been like for you and how are you going to kind of encourage the next girl who's

(19:31):
looking at you and it's like, I want to be the next you.
I just have to leave by example.
So one of the things I tried to do was be everybody's mentor.
I was like, call me, call me, call me.
And then it became overwhelming because you found that most of your time was spent trying
to help other people help other people.
And I'm like, wait a minute, I'm trying to build a business.

(19:53):
Right.
Right.
And now it's about leading by example.
I mean, there are some people that I find time to mentor, but you end up realizing that the
30 minutes that you initially gave them becomes two hours, which becomes eight hours.
And then when you add it up, you're like, I need to spend this time like recruiting and
bringing new people in and bringing new opportunities in.

(20:15):
So for now, it's really to lead by example.
It's having conversations with women like you, right?
Sharing of resources because I'm really big about being as collaborative as humanly possible.
I think that there is more than enough.
I think that we all consider at the table and have a big feast and eat, eat, eat, eat, eat

(20:36):
for days.
I am not like, I'm not trying to hoard.
You're not trying to hoard.
You're not trying to hoard.
So as much as we're able to kind of share and collaborate, I think it takes us to the next
level.
I think that pushing for not just equality on the agent side, but when are we going to see

(20:56):
female gyms?
When are we going to see female coaches in male-oriented sports, right?
On a professional level.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When I think it's always interesting because, you know, I have this thing.
If you can see her, you can be her.
And I feel like as women, we've become a lot better.

(21:17):
And this show has actually pushed me to be better about it.
But you have to celebrate yourself and share your story and share your struggle because
somebody could be going through the same thing you went through at some point in your life
and is like, okay, if she got through it, I can get through it, right?
Or like, I never looked it it that way.
But we're oftentimes taught to mute ourselves.

(21:38):
And in a room, you might have to raise your hand five times to get called on.
Different from me.
More?
Different.
You're right.
So I say this often.
I work with Black Entertainment Television as a television executive selling at space.

(21:58):
And it was the best PhD side, the doctoral bachelor's, NDA masters, legal degree.
I could have gotten during my tenure there because a not only did they throw you into the
fire and make you swim, fly and figure it out.

(22:21):
But they also taught you about pride and pride of who you are and what you stand for and
the community that you represent.
Do you feel like it's the same in the MBA though?
MBA know.
But I have a background where when I'm standing and I'm looking at giants, I'm not afraid.

(22:42):
And I think that's what's so fat and we talked earlier about agents and how not it's not
easy to become an agent.
It's not quite difficult.
But to be a successful one requires almost an evolution of yourself because you are now
we're both in it.
You're in a boys club.
More so than ever.
But I don't see it as much.
And this is an I know I'm interrupting.

(23:04):
I apologize.
I just can't go in.
Even though you know it's there.
You can't always go in and say I know that this is a boys club.
I'm here.
And I think that's fair.
I think I am here.
I have a wife and they look at me like she must be a boy.

(23:25):
She got a lot of fun in.
But it's a different.
And I think that's why my point was is like that's why speaking up about the experiences
and ways they can change and prove or how to carry yourself because no one's in a class
teaching you when you walk in a room, you command a presence.
If they can see you, they should be able to feel your energy.
And you can.
And I can feel other people's where I'm like not going over there.

(23:47):
That ain't for me.
But like no one teaches young people this.
And so that's why when you're in a space where you can share and get people to understand
that where you're at, where I'm at, did not come easy.
Okay.
From experience.
Exactly.
You had experience.
Yes.
Yes.

(24:08):
Yes.
Amazing.
So you had experience well before you became an agent.
Correct.
And so I think it's that experience sort of propels you and prepares you to represent athletes
because you already know.
No one is going to sit down and say, hey, I'm going to prepare this place for you.

(24:28):
And I'm going to give you 10 different athletes.
Yeah.
You're going to have to find a way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that's what's so hard for me with young women because I see them want to be in this
space.
Yeah.
And even young men, but it's not easy to get into it.
And so I always find like I said, like, how do I show you like, yes, I'm here and I'm happy
I'm here.
But there are still days I still fail.

(24:49):
There are still days I get it wrong.
There are days that I'm like, try again tomorrow.
Because it's often now get there fast.
Not in it.
It's a quick turn, right?
I want to get there so fast, but I don't want to learn and seek to understand how to
get there.
So I can stay there.
Right.
And I don't care how to get there.
And I'm like, no, I want to get there.

(25:10):
I don't want to get there the right way, my way and stay there.
And I think that's what I think young people have to understand is the quick fix isn't going
to keep you there.
Right.
It's just going to get you there.
But I think that's this generation.
It is.
And I think that as a parent of this generation, we probably didn't do right.
I think there are some shortcuts that we did that did not benefit, but I think that this

(25:33):
is the right way.
And I think that's what I think is the right way.
So I think that's what I think is the right way.

(26:18):
Right.
A lot of younger people are like a one and now.
Because I see somebody that is not as talented as I am, is not as smart as I am, but look

(26:39):
at who they are now.
And so that I don't think that process that we went through.
What is hard because heavy is the head that wears the crown could be not true or in this
world because you are now a reflection of Kyrie.
Kyrie is now a reflection of you.
He has had highs and lows and everything in between.

(27:01):
What point did it transition for you from my stepmom to we're going to build a business
become an agent?
Like I don't think you just woke up one day and we're like, I'm going to try this on today.
When did that transition happen?
And why was it so pivotal for it to happen in that moment?
He gave me a call and said, I love your business acumen.

(27:25):
So when he was a kid, I would bring him to my place of work.
So he sat in a radio station, right?
He sat in the booth.
He actually saw it.
He just shared some things that happened in the booth that I'm like, oh my god, that wasn't
the lesson I wanted you to learn.
Like what idea for a living, not sit there and just be playing on the mic.

(27:47):
That's not what I wanted you to do.
That's funny.
He called me and he said, I appreciate your business acumen.
And I've watched what you were doing.
I would love for you to represent me.
And my first, he said, how much would it cost for me to take you from BET?
And I said, you can't afford me.

(28:11):
You really can't put a price on a labor of love.
I say that to someone who feel the time like, yeah, great idea.
You also don't realize the work that it takes for you to sacrifice what you've built to
rebuild something else.
Right.
You know, it was, for me at that moment in time, it built this career.
That's a thing.
Like you worked so hard to reach your goals.

(28:33):
Now you're being asked to help someone else reach their goals.
But when it's your child, it's different.
I can't imagine.
Yeah.
You said no.
Would that have changed your relationship or not?
You know what?
That's a good, I don't know.
I want to ask him.
We're like, hi, like if she had said no, I think he would have chased her.
I think he would have chased her.

(28:54):
I think he would have chased her.
I think he would have chased her.
I think he would have chased her.
Depend on the day.
Depend on what's going on that day.
You're saying absolutely not.
But that's such a testament to how much he respects you and he sought you out to be
his agent.
But I think when we kind of walked down this road, it was the opportunity to learn from each

(29:17):
other.
And for me, and I said to him, I don't know this space.
Like I started out, I was never, never played on a basketball team.
I have never heard of it.
I didn't like, there's so many things that I had to learn very quickly.

(29:37):
But it was really about us teaching each other and him teaching me the sport of the sport
in the business of basketball and me trying to weave in the business of life and running
a business and leading a team and doing those things.
I think some people would probably ask this question of, you know, there were, it's

(30:00):
wild to me that I've known Kari since he was 15.
And I'm not telling you how I am either.
I'm sure they can go look him up and then do the math and then the numbers there.
But to watch the evolution of him and truly over the last couple of years in evolution,
were you a part of driving the evolution of him in a sense that was an accountability or

(30:24):
an empowerment?
I think who Kari is today is who Kari has always been.
And I always believe that their environment that you do phenomenally well in and there
are some environments and this is in any business organizations where you can stink up the

(30:45):
room.
It just does not work.
It doesn't serve you.
It just doesn't serve you.
And so he is no different.
I think that, you know, he's just grown up.
He has more experience under his belt.
Like we all, he's made mistakes.
He's owned up to those mistakes.
But I think the core of what you're seeing is what he's always been.

(31:06):
I think it's for both of us, we always talk and understand and learn from each other.
You know, what do you think of this?
Oh, I didn't look at it that way.
Yeah.
Right?
Because you're thinking you're bringing these guys in at 19.
Right.
19 or 18 this year.
Right.
There's 18.
Yeah.

(31:27):
And so if I thought about what I was doing, 18 with a hell of a lot of money and the world
is your oyster and no one tells you no.
No, no one is leaning in, you know, even from an agent perspective, there aren't many agents
and they probably don't have the capacity to say, all right, let me give you.

(31:49):
That's where I was going to ask you was like all the tips.
Well, and you have a unique dynamic where you can tell, Karina, there's a lot of people
on this league that their agents can't tell them now.
Oh, I would tell it.
Totally.
I'd represent it.
I'd be like, you never do that.
No, we're not on that.
But it takes us person who's confident and a woman that's confident in what they know to
be true and what the outcome and goal needs to be, to not be afraid to be the one no.

(32:12):
I'm all day.
If I tell you, yes, you better thank the lucky stars because it's far and few between.
Because what you've asked me to do is help you get where you want to go, not enable
you to limit yourself of where you can go.
I think these guys and girls are told from a very young age that they're a phenomps.

(32:34):
Yeah, right?
So within your community, within your state, within your region, you're a phenom.
And I think that it's very hard when you look at this person as a financial outcome.
Here, a line item.
You're like, I need this money.

(32:54):
I need this P&L to make the business go.
So I'll just deal with the consequences later on.
Because as an agent, you're tied into that contract.
So you're like, as long as that money coming in, I'm good.
Yeah.
I'm not trying to build a good human.
And I think that's the difference.
There's very few agents.
That's what I am.
I want to, I want you to be an amazing person who happens to be talented, not a talented

(33:17):
person who's an asshole and can't figure it out.
Two different things.
But different stages, ages, but there's also other agents.
They don't want to care.
They don't care for good people.
It is a hamster wheel.
They just want to make money.
And if they fire you great, if you stay with me forever of great, but does the attachment
become too great?
Sometimes I think I would say this, sometimes yes.

(33:38):
Sometimes I think when you don't have enough confidence, you will oftentimes say like,
okay, just not going to speak up because I don't want to rock about.
I am going to speak up because I feel like I have to.
You have to have enough experience to know when to say something, when not to say something.
I say to my team all the time, we might need to have a conversation and I might choose to

(34:01):
have it two days from now.
Because the environment is going to be better received than in the heat of the moment.
And that's a hard thing to learn and I failed feverishly at it.
But it also allows you to kind of collect yourself because this business is hot cold up
down sideways.
But sometimes you can be like too involved and I think that's where you have to remember
that.
And I said this is a Melissa on my team, like, you know, I can't want it more than they want

(34:24):
it.
I just I literally can't like I can set you up for success.
I can get you opportunities.
But this is your dream.
Not mine.
Excellent.
And if you're not going to work hard like one of my guys took an optional day and he said,
well, if you want to meet her the gym, you should have told me, I said, well, do you
want to tell me to do my job?
So I was just a mess.

(34:44):
I sat in and he was like, no, I was like, well, I don't want to tell you to do yours.
And in his mind, he was like, oh my gosh, he's like holy shit, you're right.
But he had never had to look at it through the lens of this is his job.
Right.
Because no one's ever told him.
It's just like, oh, yeah, whatever you want to do.
Cool, cool.
This is a game that he loves.
It gave me loves or, you know, it's just fun.
Right.

(35:04):
Like when someone says to me the other day, I had a, how would you work out?
It was fun.
Well, so is working at Chuck E. Cheese.
Like two different lanes.
So I think it's, it's, you're just such a unique place and time that as this business changes,
you're really at the leading front of it.
I mean, you were the only, correct me where I'm wrong, only African American female agent

(35:27):
representing.
Not now.
I found there's some, uh, Gigi Jackson.
Who's Gigi Jackson?
He is a rookie for, oh, I know Gigi is, who says, who says, who says, who's mom?
Oh, right.
And I just found that out.
And I was like, oh my god.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I have an conversation.
Yes.
Right.
But no, but here's a thing.
No one talks about it.
So it's like, if you can see or you can beer, right?

(35:48):
But no one talks about it.
So I think like even from media, I'm like, I want to find more of these people and be like,
great.
Right.
How can we help you?
What can we serve?
We've been through some shit.
How can we help you beat the roadblock or navigate a person unblindedly, right?
So that you can find it.
But it's just, it's hard.
This industry is hard to trust.
Do you, do you find that?

(36:09):
The agent world is hard to trust.
That's the one thing I don't think I've ever changed it.
Really?
Maybe I'm just holding on to hoes.
It's business, right?
I think that if we look at the last economic cycles of the United States, it used to be our
parents.
They worked at a job for 30, 40 years.
They retired.
They had their pension and they lived a fairly decent life, right?

(36:34):
When I think about, you know, the young adults now, they saw the crisis, the housing crisis
in 2008.
They saw from their high unemployment.
They saw so many different things that happened.
And so that whole idea of what the American dream looked like, you worked hard.

(36:59):
You took care of your family.
You had your house, you had your car.
You went on your one, two vacations a year, you were just in your kids went off the college
and everything was fabulous.
Doesn't exist.
And so for now, it's like, I understand and I get that this is a business, right?
Right?
Well, from like a trust standpoint, you know, I've always been a fan of Kyrie because he

(37:19):
always stays true to himself.
And like you said, he's always been himself.
So when it comes to trusting, like, I'm talking about even like in the media, you know,
landscape where Kyrie has made statements and then they kind of get twisted or blown out
of portion or people just don't agree with what he's saying, but he's staying true to himself.
How do you then manage that with Kyrie?

(37:40):
Like do you talking to him and which how do you wear it in the first?
Yeah.
Which how do you separate being a business head first?
Oh, I wasn't expecting that.
I was expecting her to say mom first.
I wear the business head first.
I need to be more like her.
Yeah.
Here is the thing.

(38:01):
If somebody it's with anyone like your friend, your kids or whatever, when you see that
stranger danger, be super careful, understand how things are being interpreted, right?
And there are people like, especially in this world and like, I don't have this expectation

(38:23):
that I can walk in and I'm like immediately trusting people because I also understand they
have a job and they have a family.
And that's why.
And they're not going to come in and say, I'm going to put Chitalia and her family ahead
of mine.
They're going to come in and say, I'm going to put my family ahead of hers and I'm going
to do what I need to do to take my family to the next level.

(38:47):
So when you talk about trust, trust is, you're not going to do anything to hurt me.
I'm not going to do anything to hurt you.
And if that means that you don't put your family to the next level, then we're okay because
that's where the trust comes in.
And that's why I lean in with I don't walk in saying, I can 100% trust because I know
that at the end of the day, when it comes down to my family or yours, who are you going

(39:13):
to choose?
Right.
How do you have that conversation now with Kyrie?
Like she was saying.
I have the conversation all the time.
I have the conversation with everyone.
But I mean, like in those moments where it's like, I call those in my career like, oh shit
moments.
How do you navigate?
How do you control that?
Like, you can't.
And I think that as much as you may try to, we live in a sound by a world.

(39:40):
Yeah.
No context.
Just what we call it.
And so I can sit down and say the purple, the purple curtain is so enlightening to me.
And I feel every time I watch it or I look at it, it signifies that I'm going to be super
rich.

(40:02):
Somebody's going to take a sound.
Somebody says, she says purple curtain make her super rich.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
But how does, you know, it's in Megan's in this media industry.
She just finished with the Seahawks with these young guys coming in.
What and how do you encourage your agency?
How do you encourage these young guys?

(40:22):
We try to go to questions.
These are all of the questions that you're going to get.
Right.
And if you, you have to listen first to the question because I think that the questions
are thrown out.
Right.
And oftentimes they're just like, I heard three words of the question.
And I'm going to answer the three words.

(40:44):
And I'm always like, if it gives you uncertainty in your gut, it is okay to say next question,
please.
Or please repeat that.
I always say, if you're not sure what they asked you, don't assume your brain processed
that appropriately.
Say, like, can you, can you ask that again?
I'm so sorry.
I didn't understand the question.
Yeah.

(41:04):
Because I feel like nowadays, especially, you know, the lead, when they come in the
football, Megan, they come in at 20, 21.
Yeah.
And in the NBA, it's 18.
Yeah.
And it's a lot of them, um, their families are the circus.
They're not, you know, and that's what's really hard is because you don't want to rock the

(41:26):
boat with mom and dad.
They have this idea of what their life is going to be like when you turn pro and have
no qualm about what that means for you and the pressure from a mental health perspective.
Yeah.
Is so small because it's not a lot of pressure to know you're 18 years old supporting an entire
family.
A cousins and friends and you're not.

(41:48):
And it's funny because, um, I heard somebody say that the day that everyone talks about generational
wealth and they want generational wealth.
But so many people don't actually understand that generational wealth means forward, not
backwards.
And it's an interesting concept because when you go, everybody wants to go with you.
Yeah.
You're going to run out of time, space, energy and money, bringing everybody as opposed to

(42:10):
building for the next one.
Yeah.
How are you guys navigating that?
You just made a huge change.
Well, not really huge change.
But it's, I think it's a huge change to Anta.
You're, went with a company that, um, has had some success with some athletes.
Kyrie's now the creative director.
Chief creative, well, chief creative officer, chief creative officer.
What is that?
A CCO.

(42:31):
I'm like trying to count the letters and like the what?
The CCO.
He's heavily involved in things.
And I think, um, you know, when he split off from Nike, that's where I first met you guys
was when, when he was through the circuit.
You know, that was a, a bout shift that was made and one that he now has more control over
things.
Was that the reason for the change or was that a combination of the change?

(42:55):
I'm going to say both reason and combination.
Okay.
So he is super creative.
And I think that's what you found out a lot of these athletes.
Which is so astonishing is they are probably most creative people on the planet, but they're
only seen for their ability to kick the roll and catch a ball.
You don't like if you're like, I want to put you in a studio and hear you sing.

(43:18):
You're like, oh my god, you sound like an angel.
Right?
Right?
You're like, all right.
Right.
Something for me.
Yeah.
Like, one of the things people don't know and he'll probably kill me for saying that he's
one of the best writers I've ever.
Like Kyrie.
Like he's one of the best.
He's writing or like novel writing novel, lyrical.
He's one of the best writers.

(43:39):
Wow.
I used to try to like and he would never do it.
I was like, I'll pay you if you write my presentation.
No, but like he's like an amazing, amazing writer.
Has he always been always been to the kid?
Mm-hmm.
Always been.
Always been.
He like, we'll go through a presentation and I'm like, all right, kind of look, look at
this and let me know your thoughts.

(44:01):
And he said, you are not about to critique me unless you're going to write it yourself.
Yeah.
So just be going to roll with this, okay?
Because we're not doing all of that, okay?
But he like, just amazing talent, but going back to the reason, you know, for when you
are that creative, you wanted to think completely out of the box.

(44:25):
And it's very hard to do that with a company that is already established.
Right?
You're in their box.
And so essentially for them, it's like, you know what?
It's uncomfortable to go in and to say, we want to make sneakers that look like this or
feel like this because what our success has been for years and years and years is sneakers

(44:45):
that look like this.
And to allow that because they allowed him and his creativity to come through.
And that was something that was super important as we talked about.
And it does a sneaker deal or partnership look like for you.
Let's put money and all of those things aside.

(45:07):
What's important is to venture.
That's what we built and that's what we were able to build with ANTA.
And what's that like, like working with the different brands, the ones that are work the
best with career, work the best with you.
You know, are you seeking them out?
Are they seeking you guys out?
And then what's like the license and how do you guys, you know, come up with those contracts?
So for us, he's very particular because he's not a, I'm going to just co-sign something

(45:33):
for a check.
It has to mean something to him.
Did he always been that way?
Or is this always?
Always.
Yeah.
And that's the difference between like, I can't be when I was ages.
It's like, yeah, because for him, it's like, it has to meet like if I am getting behind
something, it's because it's something that I would organically do.

(45:56):
And not just because there's a check in law.
And the cool thing about your situation is that you want the best for Kairi, whereas
other agents maybe not, they want the check and they're not going to look out for it.
Well, I don't want to make it like all agents are bad because I think, because I was like,
what's the best in here?

(46:16):
We're just going to go on and say it.
We're the best.
So here's what I think.
I think that people respond to what their clients tell them.
And so when you talk about the generation, well, and you have a 19 year old, 20 year old kid
who is, I'm carrying my mom, my dad, my siblings, my whatever.

(46:37):
For them, it's important like this, this makes the difference.
So now I can tell my dad to retire.
And they're not thinking about, let me not take this deal right now because I'm super creative
and I want something that makes sense for me.
And then they just may not have the time.
Like it is a lot of time doing what it is I do with Kai and Anton, because there's a whole

(47:03):
business side behind it.
It's not just you get this beautiful sneaker and that's that.
Yeah.
There's a lot that's evolved.
But it's an interesting this business and this landscape continues to change.
And I think it's back to where this all started is when you can have a great leader that
will teach you a new way to do something.

(47:24):
Not just, well, this house has always been done.
Well, this is if you're a product of environment a lot of times.
And I think sometimes people come into the sports world and are like, okay, I'm going to be
this way and I'm going to be an asshole because my boss was an asshole to me.
And that's the only way I know how to get people to do what I want them to do.
But when they have another boss or another leader that has a different perspective, a different

(47:47):
approach, it's like, holy shit, you got them to do something.
I am powering them instead of beating them down.
And I think that's where this is what people leadership comes into play.
Exactly.
Like you don't love all of your kids the same way.
You recognize with your kids is this is one kid is going to need a lot of hand holding
and attention.
This is another kid who is very independent.

(48:09):
So I have to give them independence, even with managing people.
I had to learn like there are people I want you to make a lot of money.
I want you to do this.
And they were like, this is not what I just want to do.
But I want this for you.
You don't want it.
And you're like, I want you to advance.
I want you to be a manager.
And then I go, I want that.
I'm just, I'm good with taking whatever my weekly check is.

(48:31):
I'll take a little bit more if it happens, but I'm not trying to do anymore.
And so you have to really learn how to meet people where they are.
And to see not what you want them to see or what you think their potential is, but
what they see their potential.
And sometimes you've got to let people have what they want.

(48:52):
That's the hardest part for me in any business I've ever been involved in is sometimes you
can't want it for people who don't want it for themselves because you're going to drive
yourself nuts trying to bring them along.
And then you get frustrated, why aren't you doing this?
Why is this so hard for you?
They'll let and it's like, look, you want it.
It's here.
If you don't, it's not your responsibility to create for everyone.

(49:15):
It's your responsibility to demonstrate for everyone what the opportunity is.
So like if I'm going to work hard, I want you to see me working hard.
Not I'm going to tell you to work hard.
So you have to lead by example, but you also have to lead by character, principle and moral.
Because that's what's going to change the business.
Not a person, but the dynamic, right, is what it's going to be, which is just again.

(49:40):
I still want female gyms.
I still want female coaches.
I'm not saying W and B.A.
I'm talking about within the NBA.
I would like, I can't wait to celebrate the day that a female GM.
I'll open to you one day.
That's my one of my dreams.
To be a GM.
I want you to have it.
I want you to have it.
I want you to have it.
I'll be sitting there cheering.

(50:00):
The minute it comes out.
Right?
She can be a result.
She was like, you said, I know her.
I'm on my way.
No, I just, you know, I just feel like there's still that old boys club that's transitioning
out and we're seeing this new wave.
But I think there are guys that have been in this business.
There are guys that are 75, 78.
Like at a certain point, they've got to make, because there's really so much space.

(50:24):
I like seeing them lean in.
There's one guy I want to ask about.
Stu Benson.
You've talked about him.
We talk a lot on the show as we wrap it up about men that have leaned in for women and
seen potential in them before they saw what in themselves.
Yeah.
Talk to me about Stu.
So he was my manager at Tintin Wins when I worked in radio.

(50:47):
He's no longer with us.
He's transitioned.
And he took, I remember the first, I negotiated my way in to be a salesperson.
Now this was 100% commission job.
And so for the first three months, you got a small draw.
I think the draw, like in a draw is just like a little bit of cash.

(51:08):
And I think it was maybe $2,000 among, right?
And he didn't know this, but I had a part-time job.
So I worked at a bakery at night.
Greenberg desserts to supplement because written New York is high.
Very expensive.
Insane, right?
So I would leave there at 7 o'clock at night, walk into Hell's Kitchen before Hell's Kitchen

(51:32):
was the sexy Hell's Kitchen that it is.
And work at this bakery until like 10, 12 o'clock at night and get on the subway and go
home.
But Stu really believed in me so much and really invested in what called me into his office.
And at first when he called me into his office, I was like, what does he want?

(51:56):
And it took me some time to realize that he was making this real investment into me.
And so for him, I appreciate because he didn't have to.
He really didn't.
So he was potential.
Yeah, he saw it.
And he knew it.
Yeah.
And it was just not just you're great at the job or you're going to be successful at the

(52:21):
job.
It was just your overall self-esteem because being a salesperson is one of the hardest
things.
You have your highs and your lows.
Dude, I don't even understand that.
That's just a lot.
It was in so on those lowest days.
He'd be like, come here, kiddo.
Come here, kiddo.
Let's talk.
So he's a he was a good egg.
He was a good egg.
Yeah.
I love that.

(52:42):
Yeah.
I love that.
What's next for you?
Signing more players, which I'm super excited about.
Yeah.
Really establishing all even sports as a real, and I want to say real agency because it sounds
bad, but just as a big force.
Yeah, established.

(53:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Out here.
And doing things different and being creative and thinking about the box and not just doing what
everybody expects, but shocking the world a little bit.
In a good way.
I love that.
I love a little good bad shock.
It's good little spicy.
If it's the ultimate plans planned out, I love that.
We're going to close the show out.
You've been an amazing guest.

(53:23):
We have two things.
What's your fit for success?
Because mine's good American.
Megan, I've converted her, I think, to get America.
I love these jeans.
I'm going to tell you, Chloe Kardashian, I don't love the sorcery in them.
Go get them, girl.
I'm going to get them.
The sorcery in these jeans.
I'll let you know if it's some sorcery because I'm a bimbo walk through the hotel.
And if I do it, I'll let you know if there's some sorcery in there.

(53:45):
Do it.
There it is.
Because I'm like, I just feel a kind of way.
What is your fit for success?
Like what do you put on when you need to feel more powerful than you are internally?
See, I love that too.
I have a power suit.
I have a power suit.
I have a power suit.
Yeah.
I love a good pants suit.
It's hot neon Barbie pink one from Good American.
That is like show stopping.
But like you feel it kind of, you put that on and you can tell me no wrong.

(54:09):
Like don't care.
Thank you.
And kind of thing.
I love that.
I so love that.
Okay.
Last thing we have for you, Tina's vodka.
We're going to send you home with some one of our partners, woman owned, non GMO, gluten-free,
organic, no hangover.
Because it has no corn serpentine.

(54:30):
It's the only one that is non GMO.
So she, you know you need a little good martini.
I don't really drink.
I don't know.
I don't know ironically.
But listen, I do accept gifts.
So listen, somebody you know might need money, but I'm not the thing.
I don't know.
Somebody will come to the house and I'll be like, ooh, Tina saved my life.

(54:52):
Tina saved my life.
So she has, these are just fun questions.
It's just for our listeners to be able to get to know one little thing about your personality.
No idea what's in here.
Okay.
So this is me, Tina.
Oh, I picked out.
Tina said answer a couple.
I know, but I would only do one in this upside down.
Do you prefer mountains or beaches?

(55:14):
This is such an interesting question.
So Tina is telling me, um, beaches.
Beaches?
Yeah.
Okay.
Vacation vibes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love a beach.
I'm going to like some apples and meditation and I feel like God talks to you through the waves.
Yeah.
I love one of my favorite places on earth is the beach where you can see the horizon meet

(55:37):
the sea because it's magical because it's not the same place every time.
Yeah.
But it looks exactly the same.
Yeah.
You see God's best work.
Yeah.
So yeah.
I love that.
Although mountains are great too.
Yeah.
But I think of each you get a chance to witness that because he's, I don't know.
I've been to Utah and seen some beautiful, godly mountain.
So you know I just think he speaks to you the way if you just sit and listen. Yeah, I love that. Oh, thank you so much for coming on

(56:03):
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh. Of course, you're amazing for good. I feel great. No plates.
Blast got you
That was such a great episode. Oh my gosh. She is amazing. She's iconic like iconic comes to mind. Yeah when I think of her
She's just so poised. So graceful

(56:25):
She's so strong like I could just feel her presence in this room and it's funny because seeing as her seeing her in this lens now
as
Kyrie's agent and also his stepmom when I met her for the first time a long time ago
She was just his stepmom and so now seeing how much she's grown into this role and how our relationship has changed and morphed

(56:48):
Yeah, as we've gone through this journey of my career her career and now we wear the same hats as NBA agents
It's really cool and I love it because I wish there were more and I think between
Chitalia and I we're just gonna create more we're just gonna create more. No, it's it's so great to see and even just hearing her journey and how she took a train from Houston to New York and
Was essentially homeless she said yeah and to just work hard continue to show up and to get to where she is today

(57:14):
It's just absolutely amazing and really truly inspirational for so many women. She has a
heavy crowned wear. I mean she
I don't know how she does it. Yeah, I really don't I think you know Kyrie is one of the most talented players in the league
The most scrutinized player in the league, but she also still has to wear that hat of mom stepmom and

(57:36):
Guardian and I thought the question with that you asked about
Which is the go-to right is so important because
She has to choose right
There's not a either or it's an and situation and
for her to so gracefully know what her role is with him and how she's been able to navigate it and continue to build it and build the agency

(58:01):
To now taking over so much of the business with Anta. Yeah, and seeing his new colorways drop
It's fascinating how quickly her role has evolved in his business life and how much
Steering she has done to help elevate it and bring it to the next level for sure and like just being able to you know

(58:22):
Separate the you know being a mom's type within also being a professional agent side and for her
She does a really good job with Kyrie because he does he has had a ton of media attention and he is so true to himself and she was on that and she
Loves that about him and I love that about him as well. It's honestly. It's such big shoes to fell
It's incredible and I really can't wait to see what she does next

(58:45):
I can't wait to see what the next version that Kyrie has the creative direction. He's doing it. Anta is great
I love the colorways
But I also love seeing her thrive in the business world as a woman in sports and how she commands such a presence
It's inspiring to me. I want to feel what I felt from her
I want to be able to give somebody else and and feel so I'm so fortunate. We were able to have her on her table today

(59:05):
Thank you so much for listening
Thank you so much for watching we love each and every one of you
That's it for us at her table today
Thank you so much to our sponsors good American keeping us fit love our fits for success drive our kept us feeling beautiful
And we also love Tina's vodka and wild collective
Thank you guys so much make sure you like subscribe tune in and we'll see you guys next time here at her table

(59:29):
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