August 12, 2024 • 40 mins
In this inspiring episode of "Her Table," hosts Kate and Megan sit down with Zoe Lamb, the Coordinator of Team Operations and Family Engagement for the Chicago Bulls. Zoe shares her unique journey in the sports world, where she is one of only three women working for the Bulls.
Zoe opens up about her role, focusing on how she creates a welcoming and supportive environment for the families of Bulls players. Her dedication to ensuring a smooth transition for new players and their families highlights her deep commitment to both her job and the people she works with. Zoe’s genuine care and thoughtful approach make a significant impact, and she reflects on the powerful support she’s received throughout her career.
The conversation also delves into Zoe’s advocacy for women in sports, offering valuable advice to young girls aspiring to enter the field. She emphasizes the importance of networking and self-advocacy, sharing her own experiences and insights. Additionally, Zoe gives us a glimpse into her self-care routine, revealing how she balances the demands of her career with personal well-being.
Tune in to this episode to hear Zoe’s compelling story and gain inspiration from her dedication to making a difference in the sports industry.
Zoe opens up about her role, focusing on how she creates a welcoming and supportive environment for the families of Bulls players. Her dedication to ensuring a smooth transition for new players and their families highlights her deep commitment to both her job and the people she works with. Zoe’s genuine care and thoughtful approach make a significant impact, and she reflects on the powerful support she’s received throughout her career.
The conversation also delves into Zoe’s advocacy for women in sports, offering valuable advice to young girls aspiring to enter the field. She emphasizes the importance of networking and self-advocacy, sharing her own experiences and insights. Additionally, Zoe gives us a glimpse into her self-care routine, revealing how she balances the demands of her career with personal well-being.
Tune in to this episode to hear Zoe’s compelling story and gain inspiration from her dedication to making a difference in the sports industry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This episode is brought to you by Tina's vodka.
(00:02):
Now you see her.
You are magnificent.
Welcome to her table, the podcast that shines a spotlight on the badass women who are redefining the
game. Join host Kate Foley and Megan Martinez as Payon Locke, the secrets of success
in the brightest female pioneers in the industry.
(00:24):
Welcome back. So excited to have everybody here. We are in beautiful Las Vegas at NBA
Summer League for year two of her table. Crazy. It's already been a year, but we are so excited
to welcome in our guest Zoe Lam. She worked for the Chicago Bulls and we cannot wait to learn more
about her role with the Bulls and how she found success in the sports world.
(00:45):
She has been all around this industry. Went to the Pittsburgh Pirates. She was in Phoenix for a bed
and now she is with the Chicago Bulls. She is one of three women within the Chicago organization.
So I can't wait to dig in. Yes, let's see it.
All right, pull up a chair. Zoe, you're up.
I'm kind of nervous. We're on the big stage today.
Where are you nervous? I don't know.
Do you want me to break that ice? I actually have something that I've been debating saying.
(01:08):
Oh please.
Kate, I have known of you for like the last seven years.
What?
You came and talked to my class when I was a freshman at Grand Canyon University.
What?
I just never came up and introduced myself because I was very, very shy.
So it's just a very full circle moment like being able to sit across the table from you right now.
(01:29):
And your name that just always like comes up in my brain like the back of my brain.
Is it good moments or bad moments? My name is Kuma. How can I be as cool as Kate Fully?
Oh my god. Sheers. Thank you. Just show me how old I am. No, that's amazing.
Okay, well we are on our first day set here at her table.
(01:52):
Yeah. Like our first day summer league. We're not in Vegas.
In Las Vegas. It's hot out there. It's not. It is hot.
Yeah, but it's a dry heat. I always say I defend the dry heat.
It's an event. But it's not like a sauna. It's a hair blow dryer.
It's hot. Yeah. I've sweat because I'm hot.
Not because it's humid outside. Yeah. I'd rather take this dry heat over the humidity.
(02:16):
For sure. I agree. Yeah.
But I do want to get like more right with like God though.
Because if this is any version of how I will not survive. So I need to just work on my like more godly things.
I need to be making weight weight show them on the way up.
Yes. Yes. That's that's so valid.
I'm so excited to have you here on the show today.
I'm so happy to be here on the show.
Thank you for coming in. You're our first guest of the week.
So exciting. I know. I'm excited.
(02:36):
You look fabulous by the way.
Thank you. Like glowing.
Thank you. Thank you. It's all thanks to dry bar.
So what? Yes. Our favorite place.
Yeah. It's my new favorite place. It's my first time going.
You loved it. We're right across the street from a dry bar
for we're staying here in Vegas. So nice.
Just got to blow out. Got my hair curled.
Oh my gosh. You don't even have to do it this morning.
I feel like a million bucks. You woke up like this, right?
(02:57):
Basically. Basically.
That's what it's all that is right.
I think as women in sports right often times we're like okay we have to like fit in this box
and we have to be certain things.
And I think sometimes we forget it's okay to be a girl.
Yes. It gets okay to take care of yourself and have self-care.
Absolutely. You're so so busy.
You have been in all kinds of sports.
What's your self-care routine?
Like what is that?
Well it changes depending on where I'm living.
(03:19):
So I've lived in three other cities just
having to readjust. I think it's probably been about three years in each city.
Chicago's now where I live.
But a lot of it's just really whatever my schedule is like.
So obviously it changes in the off season and what it's like in the season.
(03:41):
I think the most consistent thing is my Sundays.
And it's usually grocery shopping or just walking somewhere and getting a coffee
or even just like veging on the couch and spending the afternoon watching TV
scrolling through my phone, reading a book.
So just shut it off.
Yes. Sometimes.
Yes.
In sports it's like we talk about this all the time.
It's 24/7.
Yes.
You have to be accessible.
(04:02):
You're in the client-facing role with the Chicago Bulls.
What does that day look like for you when you guys are in season?
Yeah. When we're in season a lot of it's around game days.
So I oversee the family room.
So every home game we have a family room for the families to come in.
Usually they all have guests.
(04:23):
So making sure that their guests are credentialed.
Something that I'm learning going from a baseball stadium to an arena is
there's so many more entities that go on into putting an event on at the arena
rather than at a baseball game.
So there's things that you just don't have control over.
So that's security that's your vendors and stuff like that.
(04:44):
And so a lot of people are trying to get places that they don't want to be.
So just making sure that families have those credentials.
Their guests have those credentials.
People are where they need to be.
That's the biggest part of my job preparing for the game.
And then probably about an hour before tip off.
A lot of it is running around like a mad woman like talking with security
(05:04):
that the families would interact with,
talking with our family room attendant,
that the families interact with every single day.
We have babysitters in our family room every single night.
So just giving them any updates on any kids I catch wind of coming.
Maybe like a promotion or something that like if
Benny the bull is going to stop by just giving them an update on what may happen.
(05:25):
And then usually when the game hits that's probably my downtime.
And then a lot of it's just building relationships with the families.
I think the family room is a really good touch point for me to
just catch up with them because they also all have busy lives,
especially being in Chicago.
There's just so much to do.
So I think I try to use that to my advantage to ask them how they've been,
(05:49):
ask them what they're up to, ask them what they're going to do.
And then even lean on them to just kind of drive like the family engagement side
of because you know we're here for them.
And so if it's if I'm doing something that maybe not everyone has an interest in,
but I thought they would have an interest in like I want to hear that.
And so that's really what I use the family room for is just to build relationships
(06:12):
and then make sure everything runs smoothly so they enjoy the game.
A big part of a franchise is the culture not only that goes to the athletes on the court,
but also their family experience.
And I think it's such a hidden role because the general public doesn't see that role.
Right.
They don't see how much goes into making sure the families have a great experience.
It is.
For me it's like when the families are comfortable they have a great experience.
(06:34):
Then the players are able to be like they can go to their work and do their job.
And then their families, their kids, their guests, right, are taking care of.
And it's a different dynamic.
But it's so important because if this isn't working over here,
then they're going to hear about it when they get home and then it becomes a bigger problem.
A lot of franchises are moving more towards that culture creation.
Yes.
It used to a long time ago.
(06:55):
It was just like here's a room, have fun, have some popcorn.
Yes.
And now there's a whole family experience that goes into it.
How pivotal have you been in the Bulls organization to be able to help drive that from a female perspective?
Because we're intuitive.
We're very thoughtful.
Yes.
We are very communicative.
Yes.
And so I think having a woman in your role is so important because you think outside the box a lot probably.
(07:16):
Yes.
Yeah.
It's really challenged me to think outside the box.
And I think that's one of my favorite things about this role is having to get creative
on getting more feedback from people, getting people to talk more
without either overflowing everyone with all these notifications.
Because I threw them into a group chat or just making sure that they're understanding that their time is valuable
(07:39):
and making the most out of the time that I have with them when I am able to have a conversation with them.
But to your point, Kate, I think it's just one of those back door things that you don't see that
plays out on the court.
So I'm on one second.
Do we hear that?
Or is it just in my brain?
(08:00):
But I'm saying, do we need to...
Is it going to come over on the broadcast?
Good?
Good?
Okay.
I didn't realize my hair was just hanging out on my shirt.
Oh, yeah.
So I was jumping back into how important it is for you as a female to be in this role.
Yes.
Okay.
(08:21):
Back, back, back, back.
All right.
So I'll ask you a question.
Okay, okay.
So how important is it for you as a female in the industry and a male sport to make sure that you're
being very thoughtful and creative in creating that culture for these players and their families and guests?
Yeah, yeah.
I think...
I don't even remember what I said.
Sorry.
I'll just dive right into what I was saying.
(08:43):
So I think that it's a cool corner of the sport that we don't see that plays out on the court.
And so to your point to what you're saying, Kate, of just...
It's all...
It is kind of funny because it's that happy wife, happy life.
But if you don't have to worry about it, like all you have to worry about is your pre-game routine
and what you're going to do better on the court and how well you're going to do it.
(09:06):
This next game that you didn't do the last game and stuff.
And so just being able to be that point person and ask...
Be there when they want to need to ask any questions, have any troubles with their tickets or their
guests coming in or even if something comes up, like they're taking an Uber or they got a car service
rather than pulling up in their own car type of thing.
Like I think me just being there really helps that and just alleviates a lot of that stuff that
(09:32):
you know, usually go to your significant other for.
And so where me coming in as a female also helps is just kind of like bringing that energy.
Like I think not only in the family room, but I think also in the office as well.
I've kind of like what I said at the beginning, like I used to just be so shy and just like
(09:53):
so afraid of what people would think of me when I put myself out there.
But once I just kind of let that go, I haven't like been having the time of my life.
Like I sing Taylor Swift songs in the middle of the day.
Like I have a Taylor Swift calendar up on my desk and then there's even some guys that have come up and told me like,
"You like Taylor Swift?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And they're like, "I like Taylor Swift."
(10:17):
And so it's just like finding those fun things that not a lot of guys would bring up.
And so I think being a female, just like bringing that energy and that different type of energy too,
it's just so fun to see play out.
Yeah. I think what's so cool is like I'm from the NFL side and so Kate sees it all the time.
But I honestly didn't even know about your role and how important it is because you think about
(10:38):
these players and the NBA and their families are coming to every single game and how crucial your role is.
But the organization, that's absolutely amazing.
Yes, thank you.
Now before this, Kate told me as we're talking about female in sports,
she told me there are only three women who work in the Chicago Bulls staff.
Yes.
I didn't believe it. I had to ask people before that.
She wasn't going away.
There's no way.
(10:59):
It's insane.
So where do you see the Chicago Bulls growing from here?
Where do you think there's like this disconnect where there's only three women in the organization?
Yeah, I really think that really just giving a call to action.
I think a lot of that stems from just also being a woman in sports.
So thinking about kind of going back to a client services perspective,
(11:21):
when I worked at a MyR league baseball team on the customer facing side of stuff,
it was, don't forget that this is always someone's first game.
And so I feel like I always think about that too when I talk to other aspiring women in sports.
Maybe I'm the first woman that they talk to. Maybe I'm the first female that they've
interacted with on behalf of the Chicago Bulls.
(11:43):
So just always having that consistent energy, just treating everyone almost the same,
but even just being intentional with how you treat everyone, I think that's just a really good
representation of the organization.
But then also advocating for women within the organization.
So I always ask my boss, like, hey, I found this women's conference.
(12:03):
Like, can I go to it? Hey, I want to get the women in basketball flowers for opening day.
Like, can I please do this type of thing? And so even though I don't have a big say in what happens
in the hiring process, I can still make do with what I have right now.
What I think that's what's, even for us right at her table, it's like if you can see her,
(12:25):
you can be her. And I think we wanted to create the platform for women to be able to come on and
share their stories and their path. But then also inspire the next year. What challenges have you
faced? You know, throughout your career, I've been at the Pittsburgh Pirates, now at the Bulls.
Like, have you had moments where you're like, what am I doing? Why am I here? Or have you just
been like, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be?
Oh, yeah, I haven't like every other month. I think what, like, just pulls me back to ground is
(12:50):
just remembering how far I've come. And just like I was, what I was saying earlier, it's just like,
I've been myself this entire time. And that's when I've seen myself be the most successful, like,
backing up to when I started getting internships in sports. I was just so shy. I like,
didn't want to say the wrong thing, like really quiet and stuff. And now I'm like, hi, tell me about
your life. Like, tell me about your family, tell me about your dog, tell me what you're doing this weekend.
(13:14):
And then on Monday, like, I'm going to come find you. And like, we're going to talk about all those
things that we just talked about. And so I think where I struggle, or maybe it like the challenges,
are just breaking down the perceptions that men have of women in sports.
Okay, I'm packet. I'm packet. Oh, absolutely. I'm packet.
Don't worry, I'm packet. I'm a runner. So I will unpack everything. I think sometimes, you know,
(13:40):
men also just don't know how to interact or how to act when women are around. And like, it's okay,
like, let loose a little bit. Obviously, no, no, maybe we can like, button up the locker room talk
a little bit. But it's also like, just because I'm here, doesn't mean we need to again, be quiet. But
an example of just noticing some of those perceptions that men have of you. One day, one of our
(14:04):
assistant coaches comes in and he's, you know, dabbing up all the guys and then he gets to me and
he's like, oh, no, hi, five for the ladies. And I was just like, I see what you're doing there. But also,
it's okay. Like, you can dab me up too. Like, I'm sure you're, you know, seven feet tall, but it's okay.
Like, we don't have to be different because a woman is around, you know, and so I think a way that
(14:30):
I've overcome that challenge is just someday, I don't want to high five him. I want to dab him up and
stuff. And so they get weird. They're like, why is she doing this? Well, it's just like, that's what I
want to do, you know? And so I think just showing them that A, you can be one of the guys, but you
can also be yourself. Like, nothing changes because I'm a woman. I think that's, I don't know, my
(14:50):
approach that I've had so far just overcoming those perceptions. And that's a start too, is like being
able to kind of correct somebody. And so going forward, hopefully they don't make that same mistake.
Yes. In the future. And sometimes they just don't know. Yeah. Exactly. And sometimes they just don't know.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's okay to say like, okay, this is awkward for you. And for
me, so let's make sure this doesn't happen again. Yes. But it's the same conversation too of like,
(15:12):
the guys see the interaction with you and the coaches and you and other staff members. And there
has to be that level of professionalism from everybody so that it doesn't become common place.
Right. It's like, oh, you're just not, I have a role and I'm a professional and don't
degrade me or disrespect me. But at the same time, we can be cool too. Yeah. And we're all learning.
Like I like my advice to anyone looking to break into sports. Like, and even just in life is
(15:36):
just to ask questions because be curious. Yes. Be curious. Like, never stop being curious. Never
stop asking questions. And I think it really just puts all the words on the table because sometimes,
you know, people just assume what they may think they assume and stuff like that. And it just leads
to a lot of miscommunication down the road. So yeah, to your point, it's just. I want to talk about
(15:57):
a stigma that I think is out there for women. And that's why I think when you can see or you can
be, or it's great for you, and especially in the Royal Art, you're interfacing with a lot of
wives, a lot of guests, a lot of mothers. Yes. Have you ever had that moment where it's been a little
icky and you've had to like, work through it because sometimes I have a really bad experience
with another female. And you're like, the burden of that. It's like, everyone's the same. Yeah.
(16:19):
I get that in the agent world. I'm sure. How do you break that down? Because it's, they're
intimidated. You're probably intimidated. And it's like, we're all just awkward here. Yeah.
Because you guys had a lot of offseason moves. We did. We did. We did. You guys had a lot of changes. Yeah.
How does that affect your relationship with those families and those players as you transition
them out to another organization? Or you welcome new ones in? Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of it is just really
(16:40):
focusing on my primary people that I serve. And that's the families. So sometimes it's reaching out
to the wife and not the player, even if maybe you are close with the player. But even just focusing on
the wife and just letting her know that we're friends, like, or maybe even not friends. But like, I'm
(17:01):
here for you. I am a girls girl and stuff like that. Don't even worry about the reason how we know
each other and stuff. I'm here for you, whatever I can do for you. But then I care to know you too.
I want to genuinely know about you. Who cares about him? That's so important there.
Because sometimes I feel like a lot of wives and moms or girlfriends feel like no one knows who I
(17:23):
am. I'm just there. Yes. Yes. Or I'm so into his mom. Yes. And it's like, okay, well you're a person
to. Yes. And I think giving them that respect and honestly that validation of like, I see you,
I hear you, I want to know you. Not just because I have to, but because I genuinely care.
I genuinely care. Yes. Yeah. And it's just being intentional with the connections that you're
making with people and not only while you're networking, but even the people that you're around and
(17:48):
stuff. Like, my favorite thing to do is talk about everything except work. So it's just like, again,
tell me about your day. Tell me about your dog. Tell me about your day. What are you watching?
Yes. What are you watching on TV? Exactly. Exactly. In Saturday. Yes.
Other on the road. Exactly. So it's just, yeah, finding all these touch points to get to know you as a person
rather than steering the conversation to your husband or significant others.
(18:12):
Yeah. Wow. Do you travel with the team? Every once in a while. Yeah. I do. I do. I do like it. Yeah.
It's fun. It's a different experience. I also just love to travel, but I also love just
appreciating cities. And I think I try to use that as an outlet to get creative with what I can do
(18:33):
with the families. So a lot of it is just going on walks and taking my headphones out. I'm a big
music listener, podcast listener, like always have to be listening to something. So I've been
challenging myself lately to just take my headphones out, like look around, just people watch,
I don't know, check out a park or something like that to really just get the juices flowing and
(18:56):
what I can do to get creative with our families, get creative with whatever we're about to do or
just however I can be better with my job, but then also with people. So sometimes it's just a good
reflecting time for me to find new challenges for myself and do my job better. So when you're on
(19:19):
the road, how are you working with the families to make sure they have a good experience when you're
in different arenas? And then do you also meet with other women who have the same role as you
at different, like different teams? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it is it's everything under the sun. So
it's yeah, if there's families in town, if they need help with anything, making sure that I'm
(19:40):
available for them, whether it's post game passes tickets or even just trying to figure out how to
get to and from the hotel or something like that. But then it's also connecting with other people
in our role. So our counterparts and just seeing what they're doing because kind of like what I said
earlier, it's just the cool corner of the job where we all just want to create the best experience
(20:03):
for the players, regardless of the team that they're at. But then you know, we also want to be
the team that everyone looks at and be like, well, they did it here. Like we should do something like that.
True. Yeah. Because when guys move around in the organization, right? And even like as an agent,
you see the different spaces. Yes. You there are some where you're like, there's a lot of room for
improvement. Yes. Okay. And then you're some that are like, wow, you guys really get this shit.
(20:26):
Like you get it, you want them to be comfortable. And I think part of that is bringing like new
breath and air into spaces and cultures. And I think we're seeing a lot of women have a lot of
influence on it. But also it's women raising their hands. Yes. Saying like, hey, there's a better way
to do this or hey, like did anyone think this might make someone uncomfortable, but it's so scary
to speak up and be like, this is how it's always been. Yes. Let's try something new. And I mean, a lot of
(20:50):
times it's like, no, it's fine. But then you're like, I'm sitting there and I'm looking and I'm like,
there's no like there are some organizations that don't have, I don't, I probably want to say this
right, but like they don't have support for the wives with kids. And I know that sounds like first world
problems and everyone's going to be like, what was them? But it is, it is difficult because you know,
these guys play 82 season, 82 games in a season. Yeah. And they're in your arena 42. And they're not
(21:16):
2 p.m. games. They're eight p.m. games a lot of times. So like in order for them for their child to
experience it, and they might have more than one. One might need one not want to be out there.
It's to really intimidate it. Yeah. My kids get intimidated to go to games. Yeah. It's loud. It's obnoxious.
They are in stay on it. Yeah. And fans are just obnoxious. Like it's just, it's insane. So there's
(21:37):
some that don't have that. And so when guys come from an organization that does to one that doesn't have
support or a family room that has like, um, baby setting, right? They're like, what am I supposed to do with my kid?
Yeah. They don't know. And then it's the call to action of like, why don't we have this? But I love that
you're like going to different arena. It's going to different franchises and seeing what they have.
Because you're like, okay, I'm going to take a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And I want
(21:59):
to take that and that's a really good idea. Yeah. Like sharing it. Because I think it'd be really
easy to be like, don't let the outside in so that they can't see how great it is. But it's like,
no, like we just got this cool shit. Check it out. Yeah. You guys get it. Because at the end of the day,
you're going to have guys come and go forever through that franchise. And we're going to hear about
it eventually. Yeah. Exactly. Like someone's going to brag about it or talk about it. Or I'd rather not
the other side is like, this like sucks. We don't want to come here because some of that is deciding
(22:25):
factors and like free agencies and players is how do they navigate the off court? Because the
on court is structured done. This is what they have to do for their job. But there's so much stress
that goes into the family. So talk to me a little bit about this off season. You guys have some changes.
Yes. Roster moves. Love to see it. You picked up Josh Getty. Yes. You drafted Matas. Yes. Fantastic.
(22:47):
You like super young and then you guys got some some season. Yes. Yes. Yes. How does it work with you
with families when guys are traded? Do you still help that family transition? Or do you that's the
next team's job in that transition? And you're taking on the new guys? Yeah. I think it just depends on
the family. I would say we got really lucky this year with just really self-sufficient families. So
(23:10):
this year, I didn't have to help anyone transition out. But you know, it's still that message of just
hey, I'm so sad to see you go like it was so great to meet you and just get to know you. And then you know,
I'm always here if you ever need anything and stuff. And then when it comes to bringing the guys in,
it's having as much ready for them that they may have questions for and we can just be like,
(23:35):
hi, I'm Zoe. I'm our family engagement coordinator. Like send me your sizes, send me your address.
Like we want to send you stuff. We're in the works of just a lot of transition stuff on the family side
for the next season, which I'm really excited to roll out. But you know, the goal this season is to
have a resource guide. So hey, here's our favorite neighborhoods. Here's how you can really just
(23:59):
adjust to Chicago well or just get to know Chicago really well. Get it? Yeah. Yeah. Get a jacket.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And so it's just having all these
resources available to them. Yeah. They don't have to use it. But it's something that,
you know, it shows that we're put together and that we care about their transition. And again,
(24:23):
we want to make the transition as easy as possible. And you know, whether it's connecting them with
a real estate agent, connecting them with like a hotel representative, if they're maybe
visiting for the weekend to go house hunting. And then even just any questions that they may have,
like while they're house hunting, like I one of our assistant coaches that we just brought in,
(24:43):
I found out that they were in town. And I'm just like, Hey, like if you need a midday pick me up,
like I really love this coffee shop. If you guys are in this area for dinner, like I really like
this dinner spot and stuff. And so really just trying to connect with them right off the bat with
and in any way that I can. And so it's it's fun because you know, it's new faces and stuff like that.
You hate to see the other ones go, but I love the introduction part because you want to
(25:10):
strive for that wow factor of like, wow, I didn't expect they were going to send us all this gear.
I didn't expect us to have all this stuff so soon. So it's really fun just being upfront and just
being the first person to initiate contact and get them on board at that school.
I think you're going to have a really cool moment in your career coming when someone will come
(25:31):
back around. Yes, which is always so when I have guys to go back to them. Like we're going back to that.
But then it's also hard because you might not be with the bulls might be in another place because the
world, the sports world and the NBA is so small. So it's nice when you're like, it's a familiar face and
you're like, okay, they got it. We're good. Like even for me when my guys go and like, oh, they're
there like she quints that perfect. Yeah, we're going. It's good. What is somebody we always ask this
(25:57):
question? A lot of times men lean in and they have not all of them, but majority of them try to
to be able to elevate women and create a good experience and let them lean in.
Because there've been somebody in your career throughout all of your experiences that has really
pushed you or leaned in or given you an opportunity to grow. Yeah, yeah. I think it's honestly all of the
(26:19):
last four bosses that I've had. They've just constantly. What did you say? Sorry. 20 minutes. All right.
Yeah, I, it's maybe not one person, but I've been really lucky to keep in touch and continue to
build relationships with all three, four bosses, maybe even all of the bosses that I've had in the past.
And so I think they've just given me that opportunity and that freedom while I was working under
(26:45):
them to ask questions, speak up, drive certain initiatives or projects and stuff like that. And I think
that's what's really motivated me to continue going and just honestly not think bad of anyone
or malicious of anyone going into a new job. Obviously, there's those challenges or you guys butt
heads and stuff like that. You may not see I'd I here and there, but I think I'm lucky enough to not
(27:13):
have thought about that because they've just all been so supportive. Yeah, I think too for like us as
women in sports, we get it all the time where women are asking us, how did you break into the industry?
How did you get this role? Now you started in a minor league with hockey, you went to the MLB,
now you're in the NBA. What advice would you give the younger woman who want to break into the
industry and have your role one day? I would say network network network. I have never, I don't think
(27:41):
I would have ever gotten all these roles that I've had before if I didn't know someone going into
the next role. I think I don't even think I did apply for this role, but even the last few roles,
I don't think I ever went into a role not knowing who I was going to either work for or work with.
And you know, people always ask me like, is it more about who you know or what you know? And I always
(28:04):
like to say who knows you because I actually really because I don't think I've ever been like fully
qualified for all of my past roles, but I've known the person that's hiring me and even before I applied
or before you know, the job was even on the table. And they maybe I didn't check all the boxes,
(28:28):
but they know knew I was a hard worker, they knew I'm a culture driver, they knew I'm a problem
solver, they knew I'm detail oriented. And I think that's what's really helped me get to these next roles
because I may not know everything, but they know who I am and how to teach me to do what I need to do.
I think you're like showing up authentically, right? I think that's always, you know, the word
(28:50):
imposter syndrome. So it's easy to use. Yes. But it's nice when people are like, okay, you would be
great at this because sometimes people find roles for you that you don't even know you would thrive in.
But they're like, wait, I know this person, I know their energy, I know their passion, I know how
hard they're going to work. I think you should try it. And it's kind of scary because you're like, yeah,
okay, cool. But like at the same time, you also have to trust the people that you build relationships
(29:15):
with that you know that they might know better than you sometimes. Yes. Yes. And so I think all these
young women and even young people in this industry are like, I want this job, this is what I want to do
and this, this that. And it's like, but really like you might not end up where you want to go
if you limit yourself in that box, what advice would you give to young women, especially trying to
get into a male dominated industry? Right? Like for me, I'm like, be prepared. Show up accordingly.
(29:40):
Right? Like dress for the job you want. Not the job you have. Yes. I love that saying.
Like it's like, you know what I mean? Because sometimes I think people forget like we went through
COVID, we went through all these things where all this stuff is acceptable. And then you're like,
you know, yeah, we can't, we're not working. But it's hard to say that to someone because we'll get
offended. But you have to be like, let's try this instead. Yes. Yeah. What advice would you give to young
(30:04):
women that see you and are like, I love her role? This is what I think I might want to do. How does
the next you get into this role? I don't even advocate for yourself. I think that's really how I got
into the family stuff kind of backing up to when I was in baseball. I was doing business of baseball
stuff. And then I really, really wanted to do the family stuff. I had no idea what I was getting
(30:26):
myself into. But the lady that who I still keep in touch with, if I could talk to her every single
week, I would, but you show busy. You should. Yes. Just hang high. Like the way the
would you. Oh, yes. Yeah. She and I even keep up on all the, all the tea that's going on. I find out
stuff on social media because she's not social media. And I'll be like, this just happened. She's like,
(30:47):
thank you for telling me. And so, but I would lean on her, you know, as I was doing the business
of baseball stuff. And I was just like, how can I help you? How can I help you? How can I help you?
That curiosity. Yes. Yes. And then eventually it started to work its way into my job responsibility.
So it was then my responsibility was to help her. And then after doing that for a year, it was
(31:11):
taking over certain things or even knowing what I could have done better the previous season and
doing it better the next season. And then I was also advocating for myself to become, to have all
the responsibility fall on me at the pirates for the family stuff. And that's when how I kind of
(31:33):
got into this next role because I wasn't even looking. I was on LinkedIn. Like I think I was doing
some sort of family thing. And then I saw Shaqin posted the role. And I was like, well, of course,
I'm going to look at it because, you know, I want eventually, I want this stuff to be on my plate here
at the pirates. And what are they looking for in the family engagement coordinator that I could maybe,
(31:56):
you know, plant the seed over here and tell them, hey, this is what they're looking for here. Like,
I could do that stuff here. I could do that stuff here. And then she just heard our conversation we had
yesterday. I know. I literally just said all of this to Megan yesterday. No way. About an opportunity
for her. That was like, I'm not sure which one I want to do. And I was like, well, take the one where
you have the most comfortability. Yes. But one where you have the most opportunity to engage and
(32:18):
contribute, right? Because it might be a lower job. Yes. But you have room to grow and take on more
responsibility. Yes. If you go in straight at the top, it's like, here's your box. Don't step backwards.
Yes. And so sometimes it's intimidating to take the smaller role and build something. Yes. But I'm
a big proponent of like build it. Yes. Like if it's not there, build it. And if it's there, rebuild it.
Yes. Because there's might be a better way for you to do it. Because what has been done isn't what
(32:40):
needs to be done. Exactly. And sports is just always changing. It's evolving. It's always evolving.
And so it's just how can we continue to be in that mindset to continue evolve with it and make
things better? I love it. And kind of back to your question. I know we kind of got sidetracked, but
it's that curiosity. And it's that always being willing to help. And then I think just no matter what
(33:01):
be yourself as you're striving to do all that stuff. When I was leaving the pirates, one of,
you know, I would make the time to tell everyone in person that I was leaving. And one of them,
it always sticks in my mind. He started getting teary eyed. And he was just like Zoe, like,
no matter what, just always be yourself. Like don't stop being yourself. And so I think,
(33:22):
you know, just breaking into the male dominated industry is like, don't change anything about
yourself. Like continue to be yourself. You know, challenge yourself, but set goals and don't
don't change anything about yourself. No, I agree. I'm sorry. Predictions making like Jackhammer moves
as we listen to Jackhammer behind us. What happens when you're alive at Somerly? You never know what's
going to pop behind you on this set. It's amazing. I love it. Okay. So I want to talk about something
(33:47):
fun. I want to talk about sport. We talk about sports. Yes. What for you, like for me, fashion is
always evolving. Yes. And it is one of the things I'm a big proponent of. If you look good, you feel
good. Yes. Like good. You pay good. Right. And feeling you talked about being authentic and comfortable
by yourself. What does a fit for success look like for you? It depends on the day. But I mean, I just
(34:10):
dressed however I really want to dress with them because obviously within reason going into the
office and going like dressing for your workday essentially. But on game days, like I'm like,
it is a fashion show. Like I love dressing. You know, like I love wearing my chaser pants and my
skirts and my high heels and my boots and my blouses and my blazers. Like I just love dressing up.
(34:36):
But then I also love that I have the opportunity to dress down. So sometimes it's joggers and a
t-shirt or sometimes it's a sweatshirt because even though it's like 90 degrees outside in Chicago,
it's still like 65 degrees in the office. It's a great thing. So I think just dressing for the
occasion, like I don't, I would rather be overdressed than underdressed. And so I would rather be like, wow,
(35:02):
then like, is. Yeah. I'm excited because we're going to send her to one of our favorite places.
So one of our new partners, Good American, is going to have you come in and pick out a fit for success.
So we're going to send you there today after the show. Oh my gosh. I'm going to go over and check
it out and get fit for success. Thank you. Yes. So excited. So then the next phase of this is you
(35:23):
get to wear it. It's like you, it's, it's we're on the, I'm never going to take it off. I don't. I
constantly live in it. It's so comfy. We love it. But it's just, it's a great message to you. And I
think that's one of the things for me about a brand that you wear the same clothes and the messaging
behind it is inclusivity. It's positivity, but it's also just fun and young. Yes. And you can wear it
however you want. So we're so excited to send you over there. Yay. Thank you. Before we wrap up here,
(35:47):
we are going to do a really fun thing we do with production. And these Tina's questions,
they put them in there. We don't always know what's in there. Sometimes we're like, oop. So we're all
going to go around for Tina's vodka, one of our other partners. You're going to send you home with
some Tina's vodka. We are just so excited. I'm just getting spoiled. I know the swag vibe
would be the serial podcast every day. So we don't let us. They say have to go home. We want to
(36:10):
just live here too. But we're going to do this. So we'll let you go first. So you get first pick
of these questions. And I don't know what's in there. But you can answer. We're women in sports.
We think on the fly. You're right. That's how you're like, I don't know how to answer that one.
That's what I get sometimes. Oh, I like this one. What's the most adventurous thing you've ever done?
Oh. Am I supposed to answer? Yes. Yeah. Oh, okay. I'm supposed to answer it.
(36:31):
The most adventurous thing I've ever done, I can't even think of anything. I think my time in
Phoenix was like the most adventurous time in my life because there were just mountains everywhere.
So we would just hike and hike and hike and then we'd go run in the lake and stuff like that.
I feel like you're an adventurous person, little mess. I'm going to take my airpods out and go walk around
(36:54):
and say, I know. People are like, stay away from me. I don't know you. Actually, I do know. So there's this
thing you might have to help me. There's a Wenatchi, I think. Yeah. And what's the German town in
Washington? It's Leavenworth. Leavenworth. Okay. There is a really, really cool hike. It's like
four and a half miles up, four and a half miles down. But at the top of the mountain, there's like this
(37:16):
beautiful lake. I cannot remember it right now. But I know what you're talking about though.
But during COVID, I think it was my final move. This was like, I was moving back down to Arizona to
do my masters. It was in the middle of COVID. I was like, I don't know when the next time I'm coming
back home to Washington is. So I'm going to wake up, do this hike and I'm not going to put any music
(37:38):
in my ears. And so I woke up at 4 a.m. drove to Leavenworth, took like left my air pods in the car.
And I hiked four and a half miles up, like sat there for like an hour and then I walked four and
a half miles down. I think that was the most adventure. I love that for you. I won't be doing that
with you, but I love it. So next time you do it, think of me. Absolutely. We have had so much fun
(37:59):
having on the show. Thank you so much for having me. Of course. Keep being amazing. Keep doing
awesome things. I can't wait to see. We might be the next woman over at the Chicago Bulls. Yeah.
And you're actually going to come me a lot. I'll have to tell you things that you don't know yet. Oh my god.
I'm so excited. But yeah, you're going to be seeing me a lot in Chicago with one of your new
additional hashtags. We'll have to go to the other one. I'll be in Chicago too. In December for
(38:20):
NFL. So I'll have to link up with you. Please come. Yes. I will. It does. I love it. Well, thank you so
much for coming on her table. We love having it. Thank you so much for having me. You guys. Of course.
I love to have these on the show today for our first guest in Las Vegas. I know she brought
the energy today. I needed it. It's early in the morning. They're still setting up. We're on the
(38:40):
beautiful new desk, by the way. I love this. We got everybody represented here appropriately. I
want to have in her on her energy kind of changed the tone. Brought my energy. I can see why she has
such an important role within player engagement at the Chicago Bulls. Yeah. She has to have that
energy to be able to build relationships with the families and the players and build that confidence
and connection with them. That's not always easy to do. And it's so incredible. Because I know I
(39:04):
mentioned in this show, but it's such a pivotal role to have an organization because every player has
a family, has a parents, has kids. So for her to just take on that role and do such a great job,
that was so incredible just to hear her journey and how she got to where she is today. Yeah.
It's phenomenal to think about an organization as old as the Chicago Bulls. That welcomed her in
(39:24):
with open arms. I know she has an amazing mentor and boss over there in Shakuen. But it's so important
and people don't realize the culture on the court is often impacted by the culture off the court.
And she's the one driving that for Chicago Bulls. And I love seeing just her tenacity, her ability to
change, grow, develop. And she said all the time, raise your hand. Be curious. She gave such a great
advice. Yeah. And it's one of those, she's going to go far in the league. For sure without a doubt.
(39:48):
This is not the last stop for her. I can promise you that, ladies and gentlemen. But I'm so glad she
came on. This is what I needed for day one today here. Me too. She really did bring the energy.
She got us up to a hot start. No pun intended and lost. I guess it is hot here. That's it for us
here at her table. Thank you guys so much for joining tuning in. We want to thank our amazing
sponsors. Go to Marikant, Tina's Vodka, Dry Bar. And we are the Wild Collective. Thanks for
(40:12):
tuning in. Make sure you like, subscribe, follow along. And we'll see you guys soon.
[BELL RINGING]
This episode is brought to you by Tina's vodka.
(00:02):
Now you see her.
You are magnificent.
Welcome to her table, the podcast that shines a spotlight on the badass women who are redefining the
game. Join host Kate Foley and Megan Martinez as Payon Locke, the secrets of success
in the brightest female pioneers in the industry.
(00:24):
Welcome back. So excited to have everybody here. We are in beautiful Las Vegas at NBA
Summer League for year two of her table. Crazy. It's already been a year, but we are so excited
to welcome in our guest Zoe Lam. She worked for the Chicago Bulls and we cannot wait to learn more
about her role with the Bulls and how she found success in the sports world.
(00:45):
She has been all around this industry. Went to the Pittsburgh Pirates. She was in Phoenix for a bed
and now she is with the Chicago Bulls. She is one of three women within the Chicago organization.
So I can't wait to dig in. Yes, let's see it.
All right, pull up a chair. Zoe, you're up.
I'm kind of nervous. We're on the big stage today.
Where are you nervous? I don't know.
Do you want me to break that ice? I actually have something that I've been debating saying.
(01:08):
Oh please.
Kate, I have known of you for like the last seven years.
What?
You came and talked to my class when I was a freshman at Grand Canyon University.
What?
I just never came up and introduced myself because I was very, very shy.
So it's just a very full circle moment like being able to sit across the table from you right now.
(01:29):
And your name that just always like comes up in my brain like the back of my brain.
Is it good moments or bad moments? My name is Kuma. How can I be as cool as Kate Fully?
Oh my god. Sheers. Thank you. Just show me how old I am. No, that's amazing.
Okay, well we are on our first day set here at her table.
(01:52):
Yeah. Like our first day summer league. We're not in Vegas.
In Las Vegas. It's hot out there. It's not. It is hot.
Yeah, but it's a dry heat. I always say I defend the dry heat.
It's an event. But it's not like a sauna. It's a hair blow dryer.
It's hot. Yeah. I've sweat because I'm hot.
Not because it's humid outside. Yeah. I'd rather take this dry heat over the humidity.
(02:16):
For sure. I agree. Yeah.
But I do want to get like more right with like God though.
Because if this is any version of how I will not survive. So I need to just work on my like more godly things.
I need to be making weight weight show them on the way up.
Yes. Yes. That's that's so valid.
I'm so excited to have you here on the show today.
I'm so happy to be here on the show.
Thank you for coming in. You're our first guest of the week.
So exciting. I know. I'm excited.
(02:36):
You look fabulous by the way.
Thank you. Like glowing.
Thank you. Thank you. It's all thanks to dry bar.
So what? Yes. Our favorite place.
Yeah. It's my new favorite place. It's my first time going.
You loved it. We're right across the street from a dry bar
for we're staying here in Vegas. So nice.
Just got to blow out. Got my hair curled.
Oh my gosh. You don't even have to do it this morning.
I feel like a million bucks. You woke up like this, right?
(02:57):
Basically. Basically.
That's what it's all that is right.
I think as women in sports right often times we're like okay we have to like fit in this box
and we have to be certain things.
And I think sometimes we forget it's okay to be a girl.
Yes. It gets okay to take care of yourself and have self-care.
Absolutely. You're so so busy.
You have been in all kinds of sports.
What's your self-care routine?
Like what is that?
Well it changes depending on where I'm living.
(03:19):
So I've lived in three other cities just
having to readjust. I think it's probably been about three years in each city.
Chicago's now where I live.
But a lot of it's just really whatever my schedule is like.
So obviously it changes in the off season and what it's like in the season.
(03:41):
I think the most consistent thing is my Sundays.
And it's usually grocery shopping or just walking somewhere and getting a coffee
or even just like veging on the couch and spending the afternoon watching TV
scrolling through my phone, reading a book.
So just shut it off.
Yes. Sometimes.
Yes.
In sports it's like we talk about this all the time.
It's 24/7.
Yes.
You have to be accessible.
(04:02):
You're in the client-facing role with the Chicago Bulls.
What does that day look like for you when you guys are in season?
Yeah. When we're in season a lot of it's around game days.
So I oversee the family room.
So every home game we have a family room for the families to come in.
Usually they all have guests.
(04:23):
So making sure that their guests are credentialed.
Something that I'm learning going from a baseball stadium to an arena is
there's so many more entities that go on into putting an event on at the arena
rather than at a baseball game.
So there's things that you just don't have control over.
So that's security that's your vendors and stuff like that.
(04:44):
And so a lot of people are trying to get places that they don't want to be.
So just making sure that families have those credentials.
Their guests have those credentials.
People are where they need to be.
That's the biggest part of my job preparing for the game.
And then probably about an hour before tip off.
A lot of it is running around like a mad woman like talking with security
(05:04):
that the families would interact with,
talking with our family room attendant,
that the families interact with every single day.
We have babysitters in our family room every single night.
So just giving them any updates on any kids I catch wind of coming.
Maybe like a promotion or something that like if
Benny the bull is going to stop by just giving them an update on what may happen.
(05:25):
And then usually when the game hits that's probably my downtime.
And then a lot of it's just building relationships with the families.
I think the family room is a really good touch point for me to
just catch up with them because they also all have busy lives,
especially being in Chicago.
There's just so much to do.
So I think I try to use that to my advantage to ask them how they've been,
(05:49):
ask them what they're up to, ask them what they're going to do.
And then even lean on them to just kind of drive like the family engagement side
of because you know we're here for them.
And so if it's if I'm doing something that maybe not everyone has an interest in,
but I thought they would have an interest in like I want to hear that.
And so that's really what I use the family room for is just to build relationships
(06:12):
and then make sure everything runs smoothly so they enjoy the game.
A big part of a franchise is the culture not only that goes to the athletes on the court,
but also their family experience.
And I think it's such a hidden role because the general public doesn't see that role.
Right.
They don't see how much goes into making sure the families have a great experience.
It is.
For me it's like when the families are comfortable they have a great experience.
(06:34):
Then the players are able to be like they can go to their work and do their job.
And then their families, their kids, their guests, right, are taking care of.
And it's a different dynamic.
But it's so important because if this isn't working over here,
then they're going to hear about it when they get home and then it becomes a bigger problem.
A lot of franchises are moving more towards that culture creation.
Yes.
It used to a long time ago.
(06:55):
It was just like here's a room, have fun, have some popcorn.
Yes.
And now there's a whole family experience that goes into it.
How pivotal have you been in the Bulls organization to be able to help drive that from a female perspective?
Because we're intuitive.
We're very thoughtful.
Yes.
We are very communicative.
Yes.
And so I think having a woman in your role is so important because you think outside the box a lot probably.
(07:16):
Yes.
Yeah.
It's really challenged me to think outside the box.
And I think that's one of my favorite things about this role is having to get creative
on getting more feedback from people, getting people to talk more
without either overflowing everyone with all these notifications.
Because I threw them into a group chat or just making sure that they're understanding that their time is valuable
(07:39):
and making the most out of the time that I have with them when I am able to have a conversation with them.
But to your point, Kate, I think it's just one of those back door things that you don't see that
plays out on the court.
So I'm on one second.
Do we hear that?
Or is it just in my brain?
(08:00):
But I'm saying, do we need to...
Is it going to come over on the broadcast?
Good?
Good?
Okay.
I didn't realize my hair was just hanging out on my shirt.
Oh, yeah.
So I was jumping back into how important it is for you as a female to be in this role.
Yes.
Okay.
(08:21):
Back, back, back, back.
All right.
So I'll ask you a question.
Okay, okay.
So how important is it for you as a female in the industry and a male sport to make sure that you're
being very thoughtful and creative in creating that culture for these players and their families and guests?
Yeah, yeah.
I think...
I don't even remember what I said.
Sorry.
I'll just dive right into what I was saying.
(08:43):
So I think that it's a cool corner of the sport that we don't see that plays out on the court.
And so to your point to what you're saying, Kate, of just...
It's all...
It is kind of funny because it's that happy wife, happy life.
But if you don't have to worry about it, like all you have to worry about is your pre-game routine
and what you're going to do better on the court and how well you're going to do it.
(09:06):
This next game that you didn't do the last game and stuff.
And so just being able to be that point person and ask...
Be there when they want to need to ask any questions, have any troubles with their tickets or their
guests coming in or even if something comes up, like they're taking an Uber or they got a car service
rather than pulling up in their own car type of thing.
Like I think me just being there really helps that and just alleviates a lot of that stuff that
(09:32):
you know, usually go to your significant other for.
And so where me coming in as a female also helps is just kind of like bringing that energy.
Like I think not only in the family room, but I think also in the office as well.
I've kind of like what I said at the beginning, like I used to just be so shy and just like
(09:53):
so afraid of what people would think of me when I put myself out there.
But once I just kind of let that go, I haven't like been having the time of my life.
Like I sing Taylor Swift songs in the middle of the day.
Like I have a Taylor Swift calendar up on my desk and then there's even some guys that have come up and told me like,
"You like Taylor Swift?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And they're like, "I like Taylor Swift."
(10:17):
And so it's just like finding those fun things that not a lot of guys would bring up.
And so I think being a female, just like bringing that energy and that different type of energy too,
it's just so fun to see play out.
Yeah. I think what's so cool is like I'm from the NFL side and so Kate sees it all the time.
But I honestly didn't even know about your role and how important it is because you think about
(10:38):
these players and the NBA and their families are coming to every single game and how crucial your role is.
But the organization, that's absolutely amazing.
Yes, thank you.
Now before this, Kate told me as we're talking about female in sports,
she told me there are only three women who work in the Chicago Bulls staff.
Yes.
I didn't believe it. I had to ask people before that.
She wasn't going away.
There's no way.
(10:59):
It's insane.
So where do you see the Chicago Bulls growing from here?
Where do you think there's like this disconnect where there's only three women in the organization?
Yeah, I really think that really just giving a call to action.
I think a lot of that stems from just also being a woman in sports.
So thinking about kind of going back to a client services perspective,
(11:21):
when I worked at a MyR league baseball team on the customer facing side of stuff,
it was, don't forget that this is always someone's first game.
And so I feel like I always think about that too when I talk to other aspiring women in sports.
Maybe I'm the first woman that they talk to. Maybe I'm the first female that they've
interacted with on behalf of the Chicago Bulls.
(11:43):
So just always having that consistent energy, just treating everyone almost the same,
but even just being intentional with how you treat everyone, I think that's just a really good
representation of the organization.
But then also advocating for women within the organization.
So I always ask my boss, like, hey, I found this women's conference.
(12:03):
Like, can I go to it? Hey, I want to get the women in basketball flowers for opening day.
Like, can I please do this type of thing? And so even though I don't have a big say in what happens
in the hiring process, I can still make do with what I have right now.
What I think that's what's, even for us right at her table, it's like if you can see her,
(12:25):
you can be her. And I think we wanted to create the platform for women to be able to come on and
share their stories and their path. But then also inspire the next year. What challenges have you
faced? You know, throughout your career, I've been at the Pittsburgh Pirates, now at the Bulls.
Like, have you had moments where you're like, what am I doing? Why am I here? Or have you just
been like, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be?
Oh, yeah, I haven't like every other month. I think what, like, just pulls me back to ground is
(12:50):
just remembering how far I've come. And just like I was, what I was saying earlier, it's just like,
I've been myself this entire time. And that's when I've seen myself be the most successful, like,
backing up to when I started getting internships in sports. I was just so shy. I like,
didn't want to say the wrong thing, like really quiet and stuff. And now I'm like, hi, tell me about
your life. Like, tell me about your family, tell me about your dog, tell me what you're doing this weekend.
(13:14):
And then on Monday, like, I'm going to come find you. And like, we're going to talk about all those
things that we just talked about. And so I think where I struggle, or maybe it like the challenges,
are just breaking down the perceptions that men have of women in sports.
Okay, I'm packet. I'm packet. Oh, absolutely. I'm packet.
Don't worry, I'm packet. I'm a runner. So I will unpack everything. I think sometimes, you know,
(13:40):
men also just don't know how to interact or how to act when women are around. And like, it's okay,
like, let loose a little bit. Obviously, no, no, maybe we can like, button up the locker room talk
a little bit. But it's also like, just because I'm here, doesn't mean we need to again, be quiet. But
an example of just noticing some of those perceptions that men have of you. One day, one of our
(14:04):
assistant coaches comes in and he's, you know, dabbing up all the guys and then he gets to me and
he's like, oh, no, hi, five for the ladies. And I was just like, I see what you're doing there. But also,
it's okay. Like, you can dab me up too. Like, I'm sure you're, you know, seven feet tall, but it's okay.
Like, we don't have to be different because a woman is around, you know, and so I think a way that
(14:30):
I've overcome that challenge is just someday, I don't want to high five him. I want to dab him up and
stuff. And so they get weird. They're like, why is she doing this? Well, it's just like, that's what I
want to do, you know? And so I think just showing them that A, you can be one of the guys, but you
can also be yourself. Like, nothing changes because I'm a woman. I think that's, I don't know, my
(14:50):
approach that I've had so far just overcoming those perceptions. And that's a start too, is like being
able to kind of correct somebody. And so going forward, hopefully they don't make that same mistake.
Yes. In the future. And sometimes they just don't know. Yeah. Exactly. And sometimes they just don't know.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's okay to say like, okay, this is awkward for you. And for
me, so let's make sure this doesn't happen again. Yes. But it's the same conversation too of like,
(15:12):
the guys see the interaction with you and the coaches and you and other staff members. And there
has to be that level of professionalism from everybody so that it doesn't become common place.
Right. It's like, oh, you're just not, I have a role and I'm a professional and don't
degrade me or disrespect me. But at the same time, we can be cool too. Yeah. And we're all learning.
Like I like my advice to anyone looking to break into sports. Like, and even just in life is
(15:36):
just to ask questions because be curious. Yes. Be curious. Like, never stop being curious. Never
stop asking questions. And I think it really just puts all the words on the table because sometimes,
you know, people just assume what they may think they assume and stuff like that. And it just leads
to a lot of miscommunication down the road. So yeah, to your point, it's just. I want to talk about
(15:57):
a stigma that I think is out there for women. And that's why I think when you can see or you can
be, or it's great for you, and especially in the Royal Art, you're interfacing with a lot of
wives, a lot of guests, a lot of mothers. Yes. Have you ever had that moment where it's been a little
icky and you've had to like, work through it because sometimes I have a really bad experience
with another female. And you're like, the burden of that. It's like, everyone's the same. Yeah.
(16:19):
I get that in the agent world. I'm sure. How do you break that down? Because it's, they're
intimidated. You're probably intimidated. And it's like, we're all just awkward here. Yeah.
Because you guys had a lot of offseason moves. We did. We did. We did. You guys had a lot of changes. Yeah.
How does that affect your relationship with those families and those players as you transition
them out to another organization? Or you welcome new ones in? Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of it is just really
(16:40):
focusing on my primary people that I serve. And that's the families. So sometimes it's reaching out
to the wife and not the player, even if maybe you are close with the player. But even just focusing on
the wife and just letting her know that we're friends, like, or maybe even not friends. But like, I'm
(17:01):
here for you. I am a girls girl and stuff like that. Don't even worry about the reason how we know
each other and stuff. I'm here for you, whatever I can do for you. But then I care to know you too.
I want to genuinely know about you. Who cares about him? That's so important there.
Because sometimes I feel like a lot of wives and moms or girlfriends feel like no one knows who I
(17:23):
am. I'm just there. Yes. Yes. Or I'm so into his mom. Yes. And it's like, okay, well you're a person
to. Yes. And I think giving them that respect and honestly that validation of like, I see you,
I hear you, I want to know you. Not just because I have to, but because I genuinely care.
I genuinely care. Yes. Yeah. And it's just being intentional with the connections that you're
making with people and not only while you're networking, but even the people that you're around and
(17:48):
stuff. Like, my favorite thing to do is talk about everything except work. So it's just like, again,
tell me about your day. Tell me about your dog. Tell me about your day. What are you watching?
Yes. What are you watching on TV? Exactly. Exactly. In Saturday. Yes.
Other on the road. Exactly. So it's just, yeah, finding all these touch points to get to know you as a person
rather than steering the conversation to your husband or significant others.
(18:12):
Yeah. Wow. Do you travel with the team? Every once in a while. Yeah. I do. I do. I do like it. Yeah.
It's fun. It's a different experience. I also just love to travel, but I also love just
appreciating cities. And I think I try to use that as an outlet to get creative with what I can do
(18:33):
with the families. So a lot of it is just going on walks and taking my headphones out. I'm a big
music listener, podcast listener, like always have to be listening to something. So I've been
challenging myself lately to just take my headphones out, like look around, just people watch,
I don't know, check out a park or something like that to really just get the juices flowing and
(18:56):
what I can do to get creative with our families, get creative with whatever we're about to do or
just however I can be better with my job, but then also with people. So sometimes it's just a good
reflecting time for me to find new challenges for myself and do my job better. So when you're on
(19:19):
the road, how are you working with the families to make sure they have a good experience when you're
in different arenas? And then do you also meet with other women who have the same role as you
at different, like different teams? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it is it's everything under the sun. So
it's yeah, if there's families in town, if they need help with anything, making sure that I'm
(19:40):
available for them, whether it's post game passes tickets or even just trying to figure out how to
get to and from the hotel or something like that. But then it's also connecting with other people
in our role. So our counterparts and just seeing what they're doing because kind of like what I said
earlier, it's just the cool corner of the job where we all just want to create the best experience
(20:03):
for the players, regardless of the team that they're at. But then you know, we also want to be
the team that everyone looks at and be like, well, they did it here. Like we should do something like that.
True. Yeah. Because when guys move around in the organization, right? And even like as an agent,
you see the different spaces. Yes. You there are some where you're like, there's a lot of room for
improvement. Yes. Okay. And then you're some that are like, wow, you guys really get this shit.
(20:26):
Like you get it, you want them to be comfortable. And I think part of that is bringing like new
breath and air into spaces and cultures. And I think we're seeing a lot of women have a lot of
influence on it. But also it's women raising their hands. Yes. Saying like, hey, there's a better way
to do this or hey, like did anyone think this might make someone uncomfortable, but it's so scary
to speak up and be like, this is how it's always been. Yes. Let's try something new. And I mean, a lot of
(20:50):
times it's like, no, it's fine. But then you're like, I'm sitting there and I'm looking and I'm like,
there's no like there are some organizations that don't have, I don't, I probably want to say this
right, but like they don't have support for the wives with kids. And I know that sounds like first world
problems and everyone's going to be like, what was them? But it is, it is difficult because you know,
these guys play 82 season, 82 games in a season. Yeah. And they're in your arena 42. And they're not
(21:16):
2 p.m. games. They're eight p.m. games a lot of times. So like in order for them for their child to
experience it, and they might have more than one. One might need one not want to be out there.
It's to really intimidate it. Yeah. My kids get intimidated to go to games. Yeah. It's loud. It's obnoxious.
They are in stay on it. Yeah. And fans are just obnoxious. Like it's just, it's insane. So there's
(21:37):
some that don't have that. And so when guys come from an organization that does to one that doesn't have
support or a family room that has like, um, baby setting, right? They're like, what am I supposed to do with my kid?
Yeah. They don't know. And then it's the call to action of like, why don't we have this? But I love that
you're like going to different arena. It's going to different franchises and seeing what they have.
Because you're like, okay, I'm going to take a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And I want
(21:59):
to take that and that's a really good idea. Yeah. Like sharing it. Because I think it'd be really
easy to be like, don't let the outside in so that they can't see how great it is. But it's like,
no, like we just got this cool shit. Check it out. Yeah. You guys get it. Because at the end of the day,
you're going to have guys come and go forever through that franchise. And we're going to hear about
it eventually. Yeah. Exactly. Like someone's going to brag about it or talk about it. Or I'd rather not
the other side is like, this like sucks. We don't want to come here because some of that is deciding
(22:25):
factors and like free agencies and players is how do they navigate the off court? Because the
on court is structured done. This is what they have to do for their job. But there's so much stress
that goes into the family. So talk to me a little bit about this off season. You guys have some changes.
Yes. Roster moves. Love to see it. You picked up Josh Getty. Yes. You drafted Matas. Yes. Fantastic.
(22:47):
You like super young and then you guys got some some season. Yes. Yes. Yes. How does it work with you
with families when guys are traded? Do you still help that family transition? Or do you that's the
next team's job in that transition? And you're taking on the new guys? Yeah. I think it just depends on
the family. I would say we got really lucky this year with just really self-sufficient families. So
(23:10):
this year, I didn't have to help anyone transition out. But you know, it's still that message of just
hey, I'm so sad to see you go like it was so great to meet you and just get to know you. And then you know,
I'm always here if you ever need anything and stuff. And then when it comes to bringing the guys in,
it's having as much ready for them that they may have questions for and we can just be like,
(23:35):
hi, I'm Zoe. I'm our family engagement coordinator. Like send me your sizes, send me your address.
Like we want to send you stuff. We're in the works of just a lot of transition stuff on the family side
for the next season, which I'm really excited to roll out. But you know, the goal this season is to
have a resource guide. So hey, here's our favorite neighborhoods. Here's how you can really just
(23:59):
adjust to Chicago well or just get to know Chicago really well. Get it? Yeah. Yeah. Get a jacket.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And so it's just having all these
resources available to them. Yeah. They don't have to use it. But it's something that,
you know, it shows that we're put together and that we care about their transition. And again,
(24:23):
we want to make the transition as easy as possible. And you know, whether it's connecting them with
a real estate agent, connecting them with like a hotel representative, if they're maybe
visiting for the weekend to go house hunting. And then even just any questions that they may have,
like while they're house hunting, like I one of our assistant coaches that we just brought in,
(24:43):
I found out that they were in town. And I'm just like, Hey, like if you need a midday pick me up,
like I really love this coffee shop. If you guys are in this area for dinner, like I really like
this dinner spot and stuff. And so really just trying to connect with them right off the bat with
and in any way that I can. And so it's it's fun because you know, it's new faces and stuff like that.
You hate to see the other ones go, but I love the introduction part because you want to
(25:10):
strive for that wow factor of like, wow, I didn't expect they were going to send us all this gear.
I didn't expect us to have all this stuff so soon. So it's really fun just being upfront and just
being the first person to initiate contact and get them on board at that school.
I think you're going to have a really cool moment in your career coming when someone will come
(25:31):
back around. Yes, which is always so when I have guys to go back to them. Like we're going back to that.
But then it's also hard because you might not be with the bulls might be in another place because the
world, the sports world and the NBA is so small. So it's nice when you're like, it's a familiar face and
you're like, okay, they got it. We're good. Like even for me when my guys go and like, oh, they're
there like she quints that perfect. Yeah, we're going. It's good. What is somebody we always ask this
(25:57):
question? A lot of times men lean in and they have not all of them, but majority of them try to
to be able to elevate women and create a good experience and let them lean in.
Because there've been somebody in your career throughout all of your experiences that has really
pushed you or leaned in or given you an opportunity to grow. Yeah, yeah. I think it's honestly all of the
(26:19):
last four bosses that I've had. They've just constantly. What did you say? Sorry. 20 minutes. All right.
Yeah, I, it's maybe not one person, but I've been really lucky to keep in touch and continue to
build relationships with all three, four bosses, maybe even all of the bosses that I've had in the past.
And so I think they've just given me that opportunity and that freedom while I was working under
(26:45):
them to ask questions, speak up, drive certain initiatives or projects and stuff like that. And I think
that's what's really motivated me to continue going and just honestly not think bad of anyone
or malicious of anyone going into a new job. Obviously, there's those challenges or you guys butt
heads and stuff like that. You may not see I'd I here and there, but I think I'm lucky enough to not
(27:13):
have thought about that because they've just all been so supportive. Yeah, I think too for like us as
women in sports, we get it all the time where women are asking us, how did you break into the industry?
How did you get this role? Now you started in a minor league with hockey, you went to the MLB,
now you're in the NBA. What advice would you give the younger woman who want to break into the
industry and have your role one day? I would say network network network. I have never, I don't think
(27:41):
I would have ever gotten all these roles that I've had before if I didn't know someone going into
the next role. I think I don't even think I did apply for this role, but even the last few roles,
I don't think I ever went into a role not knowing who I was going to either work for or work with.
And you know, people always ask me like, is it more about who you know or what you know? And I always
(28:04):
like to say who knows you because I actually really because I don't think I've ever been like fully
qualified for all of my past roles, but I've known the person that's hiring me and even before I applied
or before you know, the job was even on the table. And they maybe I didn't check all the boxes,
(28:28):
but they know knew I was a hard worker, they knew I'm a culture driver, they knew I'm a problem
solver, they knew I'm detail oriented. And I think that's what's really helped me get to these next roles
because I may not know everything, but they know who I am and how to teach me to do what I need to do.
I think you're like showing up authentically, right? I think that's always, you know, the word
(28:50):
imposter syndrome. So it's easy to use. Yes. But it's nice when people are like, okay, you would be
great at this because sometimes people find roles for you that you don't even know you would thrive in.
But they're like, wait, I know this person, I know their energy, I know their passion, I know how
hard they're going to work. I think you should try it. And it's kind of scary because you're like, yeah,
okay, cool. But like at the same time, you also have to trust the people that you build relationships
(29:15):
with that you know that they might know better than you sometimes. Yes. Yes. And so I think all these
young women and even young people in this industry are like, I want this job, this is what I want to do
and this, this that. And it's like, but really like you might not end up where you want to go
if you limit yourself in that box, what advice would you give to young women, especially trying to
get into a male dominated industry? Right? Like for me, I'm like, be prepared. Show up accordingly.
(29:40):
Right? Like dress for the job you want. Not the job you have. Yes. I love that saying.
Like it's like, you know what I mean? Because sometimes I think people forget like we went through
COVID, we went through all these things where all this stuff is acceptable. And then you're like,
you know, yeah, we can't, we're not working. But it's hard to say that to someone because we'll get
offended. But you have to be like, let's try this instead. Yes. Yeah. What advice would you give to young
(30:04):
women that see you and are like, I love her role? This is what I think I might want to do. How does
the next you get into this role? I don't even advocate for yourself. I think that's really how I got
into the family stuff kind of backing up to when I was in baseball. I was doing business of baseball
stuff. And then I really, really wanted to do the family stuff. I had no idea what I was getting
(30:26):
myself into. But the lady that who I still keep in touch with, if I could talk to her every single
week, I would, but you show busy. You should. Yes. Just hang high. Like the way the
would you. Oh, yes. Yeah. She and I even keep up on all the, all the tea that's going on. I find out
stuff on social media because she's not social media. And I'll be like, this just happened. She's like,
(30:47):
thank you for telling me. And so, but I would lean on her, you know, as I was doing the business
of baseball stuff. And I was just like, how can I help you? How can I help you? How can I help you?
That curiosity. Yes. Yes. And then eventually it started to work its way into my job responsibility.
So it was then my responsibility was to help her. And then after doing that for a year, it was
(31:11):
taking over certain things or even knowing what I could have done better the previous season and
doing it better the next season. And then I was also advocating for myself to become, to have all
the responsibility fall on me at the pirates for the family stuff. And that's when how I kind of
(31:33):
got into this next role because I wasn't even looking. I was on LinkedIn. Like I think I was doing
some sort of family thing. And then I saw Shaqin posted the role. And I was like, well, of course,
I'm going to look at it because, you know, I want eventually, I want this stuff to be on my plate here
at the pirates. And what are they looking for in the family engagement coordinator that I could maybe,
(31:56):
you know, plant the seed over here and tell them, hey, this is what they're looking for here. Like,
I could do that stuff here. I could do that stuff here. And then she just heard our conversation we had
yesterday. I know. I literally just said all of this to Megan yesterday. No way. About an opportunity
for her. That was like, I'm not sure which one I want to do. And I was like, well, take the one where
you have the most comfortability. Yes. But one where you have the most opportunity to engage and
(32:18):
contribute, right? Because it might be a lower job. Yes. But you have room to grow and take on more
responsibility. Yes. If you go in straight at the top, it's like, here's your box. Don't step backwards.
Yes. And so sometimes it's intimidating to take the smaller role and build something. Yes. But I'm
a big proponent of like build it. Yes. Like if it's not there, build it. And if it's there, rebuild it.
Yes. Because there's might be a better way for you to do it. Because what has been done isn't what
(32:40):
needs to be done. Exactly. And sports is just always changing. It's evolving. It's always evolving.
And so it's just how can we continue to be in that mindset to continue evolve with it and make
things better? I love it. And kind of back to your question. I know we kind of got sidetracked, but
it's that curiosity. And it's that always being willing to help. And then I think just no matter what
(33:01):
be yourself as you're striving to do all that stuff. When I was leaving the pirates, one of,
you know, I would make the time to tell everyone in person that I was leaving. And one of them,
it always sticks in my mind. He started getting teary eyed. And he was just like Zoe, like,
no matter what, just always be yourself. Like don't stop being yourself. And so I think,
(33:22):
you know, just breaking into the male dominated industry is like, don't change anything about
yourself. Like continue to be yourself. You know, challenge yourself, but set goals and don't
don't change anything about yourself. No, I agree. I'm sorry. Predictions making like Jackhammer moves
as we listen to Jackhammer behind us. What happens when you're alive at Somerly? You never know what's
going to pop behind you on this set. It's amazing. I love it. Okay. So I want to talk about something
(33:47):
fun. I want to talk about sport. We talk about sports. Yes. What for you, like for me, fashion is
always evolving. Yes. And it is one of the things I'm a big proponent of. If you look good, you feel
good. Yes. Like good. You pay good. Right. And feeling you talked about being authentic and comfortable
by yourself. What does a fit for success look like for you? It depends on the day. But I mean, I just
(34:10):
dressed however I really want to dress with them because obviously within reason going into the
office and going like dressing for your workday essentially. But on game days, like I'm like,
it is a fashion show. Like I love dressing. You know, like I love wearing my chaser pants and my
skirts and my high heels and my boots and my blouses and my blazers. Like I just love dressing up.
(34:36):
But then I also love that I have the opportunity to dress down. So sometimes it's joggers and a
t-shirt or sometimes it's a sweatshirt because even though it's like 90 degrees outside in Chicago,
it's still like 65 degrees in the office. It's a great thing. So I think just dressing for the
occasion, like I don't, I would rather be overdressed than underdressed. And so I would rather be like, wow,
(35:02):
then like, is. Yeah. I'm excited because we're going to send her to one of our favorite places.
So one of our new partners, Good American, is going to have you come in and pick out a fit for success.
So we're going to send you there today after the show. Oh my gosh. I'm going to go over and check
it out and get fit for success. Thank you. Yes. So excited. So then the next phase of this is you
(35:23):
get to wear it. It's like you, it's, it's we're on the, I'm never going to take it off. I don't. I
constantly live in it. It's so comfy. We love it. But it's just, it's a great message to you. And I
think that's one of the things for me about a brand that you wear the same clothes and the messaging
behind it is inclusivity. It's positivity, but it's also just fun and young. Yes. And you can wear it
however you want. So we're so excited to send you over there. Yay. Thank you. Before we wrap up here,
(35:47):
we are going to do a really fun thing we do with production. And these Tina's questions,
they put them in there. We don't always know what's in there. Sometimes we're like, oop. So we're all
going to go around for Tina's vodka, one of our other partners. You're going to send you home with
some Tina's vodka. We are just so excited. I'm just getting spoiled. I know the swag vibe
would be the serial podcast every day. So we don't let us. They say have to go home. We want to
(36:10):
just live here too. But we're going to do this. So we'll let you go first. So you get first pick
of these questions. And I don't know what's in there. But you can answer. We're women in sports.
We think on the fly. You're right. That's how you're like, I don't know how to answer that one.
That's what I get sometimes. Oh, I like this one. What's the most adventurous thing you've ever done?
Oh. Am I supposed to answer? Yes. Yeah. Oh, okay. I'm supposed to answer it.
(36:31):
The most adventurous thing I've ever done, I can't even think of anything. I think my time in
Phoenix was like the most adventurous time in my life because there were just mountains everywhere.
So we would just hike and hike and hike and then we'd go run in the lake and stuff like that.
I feel like you're an adventurous person, little mess. I'm going to take my airpods out and go walk around
(36:54):
and say, I know. People are like, stay away from me. I don't know you. Actually, I do know. So there's this
thing you might have to help me. There's a Wenatchi, I think. Yeah. And what's the German town in
Washington? It's Leavenworth. Leavenworth. Okay. There is a really, really cool hike. It's like
four and a half miles up, four and a half miles down. But at the top of the mountain, there's like this
(37:16):
beautiful lake. I cannot remember it right now. But I know what you're talking about though.
But during COVID, I think it was my final move. This was like, I was moving back down to Arizona to
do my masters. It was in the middle of COVID. I was like, I don't know when the next time I'm coming
back home to Washington is. So I'm going to wake up, do this hike and I'm not going to put any music
(37:38):
in my ears. And so I woke up at 4 a.m. drove to Leavenworth, took like left my air pods in the car.
And I hiked four and a half miles up, like sat there for like an hour and then I walked four and
a half miles down. I think that was the most adventure. I love that for you. I won't be doing that
with you, but I love it. So next time you do it, think of me. Absolutely. We have had so much fun
(37:59):
having on the show. Thank you so much for having me. Of course. Keep being amazing. Keep doing
awesome things. I can't wait to see. We might be the next woman over at the Chicago Bulls. Yeah.
And you're actually going to come me a lot. I'll have to tell you things that you don't know yet. Oh my god.
I'm so excited. But yeah, you're going to be seeing me a lot in Chicago with one of your new
additional hashtags. We'll have to go to the other one. I'll be in Chicago too. In December for
(38:20):
NFL. So I'll have to link up with you. Please come. Yes. I will. It does. I love it. Well, thank you so
much for coming on her table. We love having it. Thank you so much for having me. You guys. Of course.
I love to have these on the show today for our first guest in Las Vegas. I know she brought
the energy today. I needed it. It's early in the morning. They're still setting up. We're on the
(38:40):
beautiful new desk, by the way. I love this. We got everybody represented here appropriately. I
want to have in her on her energy kind of changed the tone. Brought my energy. I can see why she has
such an important role within player engagement at the Chicago Bulls. Yeah. She has to have that
energy to be able to build relationships with the families and the players and build that confidence
and connection with them. That's not always easy to do. And it's so incredible. Because I know I
(39:04):
mentioned in this show, but it's such a pivotal role to have an organization because every player has
a family, has a parents, has kids. So for her to just take on that role and do such a great job,
that was so incredible just to hear her journey and how she got to where she is today. Yeah.
It's phenomenal to think about an organization as old as the Chicago Bulls. That welcomed her in
(39:24):
with open arms. I know she has an amazing mentor and boss over there in Shakuen. But it's so important
and people don't realize the culture on the court is often impacted by the culture off the court.
And she's the one driving that for Chicago Bulls. And I love seeing just her tenacity, her ability to
change, grow, develop. And she said all the time, raise your hand. Be curious. She gave such a great
advice. Yeah. And it's one of those, she's going to go far in the league. For sure without a doubt.
(39:48):
This is not the last stop for her. I can promise you that, ladies and gentlemen. But I'm so glad she
came on. This is what I needed for day one today here. Me too. She really did bring the energy.
She got us up to a hot start. No pun intended and lost. I guess it is hot here. That's it for us
here at her table. Thank you guys so much for joining tuning in. We want to thank our amazing
sponsors. Go to Marikant, Tina's Vodka, Dry Bar. And we are the Wild Collective. Thanks for
(40:12):
tuning in. Make sure you like, subscribe, follow along. And we'll see you guys soon.
[BELL RINGING]
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