From Unknown to Unstoppable: Writing, Marketing, and Confidence with Cathy McIntosh

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Words matter. Words have a tremendous amount of power to harm, words to do good. You know,

(00:10):
I think about some of the hurtful words that I've received in my life and how I still
carry those with me, but I also still carry the compliments and the encouragement at the
same time. So we cannot underestimate the power of words.
And really reaching out when someone does something that you're like, wow, it doesn't matter
if you don't know them, right? Well, that really affected me. Olivia has, and I'm working

(00:33):
on mine right now for 2025, a vision board in her closet where she collects things that
she, you know, aspires to, but also, I mean, you can talk for yourself, but you have things
that letters that people have sent you that she posts up there because you know what,
they make you feel good, right? They remind you like in days where you're not feeling
good about something, you can look at that and say, wow, I made a difference there. I made

(00:54):
a difference there. Welcome to her unshakable confidence. With dynamic mother-daughter duo,
Simone and Olivia Canago, where they discuss the secrets of transformation and how to build
bold confidence and unwavering resilience. From intimate conversations with inspiring guests
to sharing their personal journeys of triumph and challenge, Simone and Olivia create a supportive

(01:19):
space where every woman is encouraged to rise above her fears and love the woman in the
mirror. Tune into her unshakable confidence. Enjoying this special journey of connection
and growth. It's like catching up with old friends who inspire you to be bravely and uniquely
you. Welcome to this week's episode of her unshakable confidence. I'm Simone Canago. And

(01:43):
I'm Olivia Canago. And today we have a very special guest, Cathy McIntosh. Cathy is a
sought after marketing strategist who guides the facets, growing faith-driven writers
and professionals to multiply their impact through authentic connections with their audiences.
And I struggle with these words sometimes. Endorse by experts like Donald Miller and Dr.

(02:06):
J.J. Peterson. Cathy helps authors get comfortable with marketing to experience the transformation
from unknown to unstoppable. I love that. Cathy has a diverse author portfolio spanning
multiple genres. Her debut novel, Redemption's Echo, is a heart-gripping tale that offers
reader an authentic glimpse into the world of crime and justice. When Cathy isn't crafting,

(02:28):
compelling stories or guiding fellow writers to success, she often delves into the latest
crime podcasts. They seem to be like the most popular, honestly, right? Always eager to
unravel a mystery. With an insatiable curiosity, she enjoys learning new skills and embarking
on exciting adventures, rarely shying away from lies around the next proverbial corner.

(02:49):
She and her husband relish the joys of living in Colorado, surrounded by the laughter and
love of their children and grandchildren. Cathy, thank you so much for joining us today.
I am so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Absolutely. So I really want to dive into your novel, Redemption's Echo, because writing
a novel is no small feat, right? Self-help book is hard enough to do.

(03:14):
But a novel is really a whole different bird. So what motivated you, let's start with what
motivated you to write it? I would say it started with curiosity. Back even when I was a kid,
you know, you always say that I want to be an author someday. I want to write a book someday
when you're reading Little House on the Prairie and all of the books that you read when you're

(03:36):
a kid. And my mom always supported that. She had that kind of same curiosity. And there
were bits and spurts where she and I would try to write a book together and that never went
anywhere and really was not the way to do it. But just the way that she kind of spurred me
on and gave me permission to try was a really big deal. And I put that dream away for quite

(03:58):
some time when I started writing devotionals and magazine articles and business blogs and
things that were much drier than fiction. And then I've got a married to a guy who's been
in law enforcement for about 40 years. And we were out on a day date one time because I've
got to catch him when his schedule allows. We don't have like a typical Friday night off
usually. So we're on a day date and he gets a call from his detective lieutenant and they

(04:23):
were investigating a homicide. And I just really felt this what I call a divine inspiration
to pay attention that this was what I was supposed to write about and mind you, I've got
40 years of phone calls like that. It's not like this was the first one and I was just automatically
intrigued. It was all of a sudden, oh my gosh, this is the one. And I literally knew nothing
about this case. And it turned out to be this crazy twisty, turny mountain road adventure

(04:50):
where the ending was just far different than anybody ever imagined. So I was definitely
inspired by a true story that I took and fictionalized and just just kind of added a lot of years
of history of different cases that have come together into this novel to present it to

(05:10):
the world. And here it is kind of exciting. Yeah, it's really exciting. Olivia, do you think
we should write a book together? No. So you're smarter than we were. Yeah. Yeah, I think the
podcast is great, but I think she's actually a much better writer than I am. But I'm not a
creative writer. I'm great at like practical writing. It's different. Yeah. I think the

(05:34):
creative writing is really hard. And that's, I mean, I really give you credit for jumping into
a novel because I think about stories inside my head all the time, but to be able to really
follow through, go from eight is Z with all parts of the story and keep the reader interested
is is really a big feat. It is. It is. And I think I've mentioned to you, I am story

(05:56):
brand certified in the marketing realm. And so we delve so much into what the different
parts of the story and what makes the story captivating and what holder readers interest.
And so this had kind of been an underlying tone for many years before leading up to this
adventure. And it was just like, okay, I think I can do this because I use story every day
and the marketing techniques and just decide to go for it. Yeah. So tell people about what

(06:21):
being a story brand certified guide is because I researched it, but I think a lot of our
women out there won't know what that means. Well, Donald Miller started writing memoirs
and decided finally to take his story, building ability and turn it into a marketing strategy.

(06:42):
And he teaches that we can we can draw our business audience into a story where they
can see themselves as a hero, they can see themselves winning the day with the ways that
we help them. So a lot of businesses when they put themselves out there try to be the hero,
they try to exert themselves as the expert and make make the world think that they know

(07:03):
all the things. And Donald is saying, no, no, no, no, we're about helping the reader, the
viewer, the customer, be the hero. And we're just there to guide them to their success
and find success in their own journey, which is just kind of was was in his original day,
a paradigm shift. And now it's kind of a marketing standard that this is this is what everyone's

(07:26):
doing. So I am certified under Donald Miller, which means I have personally trained with
him and through him and just gleaned from his wisdom for a lot of years.
I think it's story changes everything. It does. I think that we can give people statistics
all day long, but I truly believe what they connect with are the stories that we share.

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And I always love to say because I think a lot of women out there don't believe that they
have a story to tell everyone has a story to tell. So listening, listening to this podcast,
you have a story to tell and it's so important that you share your story. Now I'm not saying
you have to go out and write a book, but I think that really understanding that your voice

(08:10):
matters and that you can impact other people with the stories that you tell is so important.
I couldn't agree with that more. Absolutely. Absolutely. So before this book, let's talk about
other things that you've written. So again, I am an inspirational faith-based author. So
I've written a couple of different Bible studies that were self published, written a slew

(08:31):
of ebooks. And I wrote a business building book with a team from Fort Worth, Texas that
really speaks to nonprofits and how to get donors that last and how to attract the
right donors to a nonprofit organization. So it's all over the board. It's just really
a ton of blogging, a ton of magazine articles and devotionals and all that kind of work.

(08:54):
But this is my first novel. It was definitely an experiment. Like I said, Curiosity drew
me into the mix and really led me to tell the story of a woman who was trapped in human
trafficking through a family member and ultimately lost her life and then her sister became a police

(09:15):
detective and ended up solving the cold case of her own sister's murder. So that's what
redemption's echo is about. Wow. I haven't read it yet, but I can't wait to read it because
I feel like that is, it sounds like it's made for a movie, honestly. Yeah, it could be.
I can envision it as a movie. They're so huge leap in right. I can see it happening. Yeah.

(09:39):
I mean, again, talking about crime podcasts and people love that. I mean, I don't know exactly
what why we're so fascinated, maybe because we don't understand it. I mean, live, what do
you think? I think, yeah, I guess exactly that we don't understand it. It's a completely
different, separate world than our every day. It is. And I've talked to a lot of people

(10:04):
about that and why you're attracted to true crime or semi-true crime. And a lot of it is women
telling that they want to be prepared and they want to imagine the worst so that they
can keep their radar up and try to keep them, themselves safer. For me, it has a lot to
do with putting pieces of a puzzle together and, you know, starting with nothing and building

(10:26):
it into something large. So there's just insatiable curiosity about the crime realm. And I've
got unique experience just having lived that wife of law enforcement and just heard all
the stories for decades and being able to draw on that wisdom and have at my disposal,
you know, I get us my husband. I need to talk to a detective who knows about this and

(10:49):
he'd say, I know just a guy. Let's go talk to him. And it was just, you know, this wonderful
perfect storm that came together to create this book.
Well, so let's tie it back to your, like, the faith-based writing. How do you connect those
pieces there? That was a little bit of a struggle. Let me tell you. But what happened is my

(11:13):
main character just has a Christian worldview. And so there are just little bits and spurts.
And it's just who she is and the lens through which she sees the world. So it's really
hard to call it a Christian book. It really covers some dark horrendous things that go on in
real life. And it's just seeing, seeing crime through the eyes of someone who really follows

(11:39):
hard after God and understands that even when horrible things happen, he's still in the
mix and he's still good. And that's kind of an underlying message of it, but not the
prominent message of the book. So it was a little bit tough to juggle, but finally just decided,
let's just do it as our family would do it and navigate it the way that the people I

(12:01):
see navigate. And that's where we land.
Let's talk about marketing because marketing a book, writing a book is very hard. Marking
a book is even more difficult. Yes, yes, it is. So what tips do you have? What suggestions

(12:22):
you have? What has been successful for you and what has not been successful for you?
Sure. Social media has been a little less successful than I thought it might be. I've really
relied on my email list and honestly my personal contacts. So for me personally because there
is such a heavy law enforcement influence on this book going to the law enforcement community

(12:45):
and saying, Hey, I wrote this book really intended to put all of you in a good light and make
you look out to be the heroes that you are. That spurred some interest in that community.
But I also feel that again relying on that email list and the relationships that you build
online as opposed to just broadcasting it out to a slew of strangers makes all the difference

(13:06):
when we can be authentic and have connection and conversation instead of just advertisement
and you know, you interrupt people where they are and this kind of annoying they just want
to show you away. But but building the relationships is a much more effective way to market a book
like this and then allow one person who's ready and enjoy it to share it with his or her

(13:32):
group of people and then it starts to multiply and get bigger and bigger and bigger.
We talk about social media a lot on this podcast and you know, there's good and bad about
it, right? Yes. And I have definitely found that it is you can put out the most amazing
content and you're controlled by the algorithm or you're and it's amazing to watch some

(13:55):
people that can completely go viral with something in something positive, right? A lot
of the stuff that happens probably not as necessarily positive, but you know, really watching
how and thinking about how it works. I mean, that was a struggle for me too when I wrote my
first book and I thought, oh yeah, you write the book. That's the hard part, not at all.

(14:16):
It can be such a great book, but it's getting people to know about it and it's such a different
experience than I was expecting and I'm wondering do you feel the same? I do. I absolutely do.
One of the things that worked well for me was finding, this was really a think out of the
box creative challenge for me, but finding a way to pair marketing with fiction writing,

(14:40):
with storytelling and bring it all together and benefit the cause of human trafficking.
So as a story run certified guide, I started offering a package deal where I would give
about a $6,800 mark, $6,800 marketing package for about $2,200 and with that they would

(15:02):
get 50 books. I would do their copywriting for them and we would give it donation to covered
Colorado, which is the organization I'm supporting where it's a local story, it's a local organization.
So that was a great way to get the word out to help a nonprofit who are the ones who particularly
took advantage of this marketing program, but I was essentially doing the work for free,

(15:26):
doing the marketing work for free in lieu of those book sales and leveraging their contacts and
sending books out to 50 people that they knew. So to me, that was a really big,
advantageous program to pull all the pieces of my world together into one funnel to accomplish a

(15:48):
goal, but it took a lot of stewing and figuring out and reconfiguring and finally landing on something
that was going to work for a lot of different people. So let the sales of your book support a
nonprofit in your area. Yes, that's fantastic. How did you or why did you decide to do that?
Well, when I wrote Redemption's Echo, again, the victim in the story was a trafficking victim and

(16:13):
to write a novel, I had to put myself into her shoes that had to see the world from her perspective and
really mentally become a trafficking victim for a little while and it ignited this passion in me
to do more, to support survivors more. And so I started looking for an organization in my area and I
really had a hard time finding it. And sometimes you Google things and you don't find it and somebody

(16:35):
says, well, I just googled it and there it was. But I found a friend who knew of a person who knew of the
husband of the woman who founded this organization. So it was a friend of a friend of a friend who said,
you know, I think this is what you're looking for, ensuring if it was. So I literally cold-called them.
I said, I'm an author. I'm about to publish a book. I'd really like to support you. And they said,

(16:58):
oh, we'd love to have your support. They did not know me from Adam. I was a stranger off the street
and they didn't know or trust me and I totally understand that. So it started with, yes, you can
support us through your book. And then I said, can I use your logo? Can I do some bookmarks? And they said,
no, not so much. We haven't read the book. I said, okay, I understand, 100% understand. So I just let that go

(17:23):
and I just continue doing all the things that I do. And I started showing up to their events. I started
actually getting involved and not just saying I was going to get involved. And little by little,
they started embracing the idea. And then when the book came out, I had several copies delivered
to their organization and then eventually saw that they sent out an email to their supporters saying,

(17:45):
hey, there's this book, you know, all of a sudden now they're starting to promote it as well. So it
didn't start. That was not the motivation to begin with. Truly, the motivation was me wanting to
support and get involved in a cause that was bigger than the book, bigger than myself. You know, it's
a world-wide situation that is just devastating and heartbreaking and horrible. So it's going to

(18:09):
take a world of people to get it fixed. I think as a mom, it's probably one of my biggest fears.
And it's not that I think about it often, but then you see something on the news and then you're like,
oh my gosh, like, this could happen to anyone, right? It's not just, and I think the first time I
really thought about it was that Liam Neeson movie taken. And that was just terrifying for me.

(18:37):
Did you ever see that movie? No, but I know the premise. Okay. It was just the scene at the airport where
they share a ride together. And that was like the beginning of the end. And it's kind of like the,
it made you have this feeling like you can't trust anyone. And that's not how life should be,
but you do have to have this guard up all the time. And I think that a lot of people don't know

(19:02):
the statistics. And I don't know exactly the statistics behind human trafficking, but it's a much bigger
issue than we think. And it happens everywhere. I mean, Florida's huge for it.
Yeah. You know, we tend to think it happens overseas. It happens in other lands, foreign countries.
And that's, it happens in our own neighborhoods. And the fact is you don't even have to leave your

(19:26):
house to be trafficked. There are stories that have come out and come to light since I've been
involved with this where teenagers are online meeting people that say they love them and that they
want to marry them and do all the things for them. And here's money for a plane ticket. I'm going
to fly you to Greece or to, you know, somewhere in Europe. And the girls are literally on their way

(19:49):
to the airport to get on the plane to go into this trafficking situation. And the parents
call the police and say, you know, she's gone. And this is what's on her computer. And, you know,
the FBI is involved and now they're, they're tracking this girl and there's times when they're rescued
right there at the airport and you know, you can't do this. And this is not the way to go. And there's

(20:11):
times when the rescue doesn't happen. And, you know, off they go and never to be seen again. And it's,
it's heartbreaking and terrifying. And we cannot be too careful. We can't.
Yeah. Well, like I said, that movie scared the crap out of me. So, um,
really made me rethink a lot of things. And I know it was just a movie. But still,
that sort of, just that, right? Right. I mean, you know, it's based on every movie is based on some kind

(20:36):
of real story, right? I mean, okay, maybe not some of the Disney movies, but, um, in general,
where do people get the ideas for things? I mean, they've heard it. They've seen it. It's been done
before. And then they create a story out of it. And it is terrifying that it could happen to anyone
anywhere. And yes, the idea of it happening from your inside your house, right? That the kids are,

(21:04):
and that's why it's so important that we have these conversations with our children about
the importance of really understanding what's real and what's not. And when it feels wrong,
it is wrong. Yes, for sure. One of the, the highest compliments I got for this book was, um,
from a woman I know. And I, I tried to write it with a very gentle brush.

(21:25):
When, when the trafficking incidents happen, you definitely know what's going on, but you're not
invited into this graphic visual imagery. So again, it was just written with a very gentle hand.
And she came up to me and she said, Kathy, I just want to thank you for writing a book that I can share
with my early high school girls. I can share it with my middle school girls because it's clean enough

(21:50):
where they're not really assaulted with the words on a page. Right. But yeah,
they're, they're made aware and it's opening, um, it's opening lines of communication and it's opening,
talking points that we can share this information with our, with our kids. And it's not even just
daughters, right? It's daughters and sons. We're able to share it. Yeah, I think across the board,

(22:13):
I think that people tend to think it's just our daughters, but I think it is across the board.
I think it doesn't matter. And it's just, we all have to be more aware and more careful. And
we have an organization in Sarasota that definitely raises money for human trafficking victims and,
you know, really awareness about it because I don't think we talk about it enough. It's something

(22:38):
scary. We don't like to talk about the skit. We love to watch the, the crime podcasts and the videos,
but we don't like to talk about it. Right, right. But we live it. Is there, like, think about like with
your friend group? Do you guys, I mean, I know when you guys go out, you always stay together, but like,
has it ever been a conversation like this is, this is a concern?
I mean, yeah, I guess like, it's kind of just one of those things that's an inherent concern

(23:06):
that you just don't speak about. And that's what you do. Everything is groups of people and you don't
go off by yourself and you don't go off with the, the strange guy or girl offering you something.
I mean, being in Nashville, it's like a very big concern. It's a bigger city for that kind of

(23:27):
trafficking. So I don't know, it's just like part of unfortunate part of being a woman or just kind
of a person in the planet, but specifically a woman is being more aware of your surroundings.
And like you mentioned earlier, Kathy, part of listening to these crime podcasts and reading the
crime books is, okay, what's the worst case situation here and what's the worst case scenario?

(23:51):
And it is like unfortunate that we have to think like that, but we do.
And it might seem really drastic to some people, but I mean, if it's, you know, like an easy way to
keep an individual safe or keep yourself safe, like why not do it?
Because we still have to live in function and breathe in.

(24:13):
Yeah. And be out there and meet people. I mean, it's, it's just meant to be enjoyed.
Right. It's meant to be in unity as well.
It's just understanding that you don't always want to, you don't want to think the worst.
You want to think the best of people, but you also have to have a little bit of, you know,

(24:33):
a thought process of, okay, what if?
Yeah. And I think that's kind of a cross, I think it's kind of true with whatever we do now.
It is a what, what if? I mean, I'm thinking back to when I was in high school right before any kind of
mobile phones and the internet and worried about posting stuff videos and, and now it's like

(24:56):
anything you do is out there forever. We talked to the kids about that all the time.
And so I think that there's so much more exposure to things because of the internet in both good
and bad ways, right? Because we can be more aware of things because we can research it.
But we also, everything is in our face all the time.
What was more challenging for you, the actual writing of the content or I guess,

(25:20):
writing the structure and, you know, making sure all the pieces go together because obviously the
content of your book is in Somatic, gruesome. It was the structure for sure and making sure that
the flow was correct and it took me, it took me about seven years to write this book.

(25:42):
Oh wow, okay. And about I would say five and a half years of that was contemplating the plot line
and just trying to get to a point to where it could be realistic and it could really happen
like this. And, you know, a lot of banter back and forth with my husband and, you know, what about
this and toss some ideas around and know that could never happen because of this or that or

(26:06):
so that part took the most time and I feel like it was the most challenging.
When I sat down and literally started writing, it was more about finding a rhythm in my day.
So I would do my work all day long and then I would end about three or four o'clock and then
write until my husband got home and then, you know, I cooked in and put this stuff away, but it was
just this really dedicated time of this is when I know I'm going to write. And once my fingers were

(26:31):
on the keyboard, it really felt like it was natural because that firm outline was in place and
I knew where the story was going to go, but there were also times that I would be writing and
literally an idea which is like magically come out of my fingers like I did not see that coming.
This was not something I saw, but, you know, in having to weave that in and make sure all the

(26:52):
loosens were sewn into the pattern and make cohesive, right? So that was that was definitely the
harder part for me. So the woman that this story was based on does her family know that this story
was based on her? No, I have no way to even contact her. It's, and again, so fictionalized that it's

(27:17):
not, it doesn't even really represent her anymore. It represents elements of her story that came to be.
There was some trafficking involved in her situation. I turned it into a family member. I turned
you know, it's it's very, very different, but very much inspired by what she had gone through. And
it's just heartbreaking to see the way her personal story panned out just super sad. And that's kind

(27:46):
of the faith element too is one of the questions as I was just watching this case unfold and be solved
and see how it all panned out is asking God where were you when this horrible, horrible stuff was
going on. And it's not an easy question, but I really felt like that was the main question that I was
supposed to explore. And one of the things that I tried to put into perspective. So the story is

(28:11):
actually told mainly through the eyes of her sister, a big part of it's through the eyes of the
victim, the rest of it's through the eyes of her sister in an effort to show different perspectives
from the same life and how her existence made such a difference and it will make a difference for
generations whether she's on the earth for a long time or a short time she was here and she mattered

(28:34):
and and her life being an impact. I think stories like this really make you think when when we talk
about religion and you know we do have those questions. I mean we're we're Jewish and but just in general
thinking about okay when all these bad things are happening you know how do we how do we feel about

(28:57):
God? How do we how do we understand how to balance it because I think a lot of times you feel like
well okay how could this even happen? How is this even possible? And I don't have the answer to that
no but I just think that life life is right I mean we we go through every day we don't know what to

(29:19):
expect and that I think for a lot of people when situations like this happen they do lose their faith
for sure and again I don't I haven't been through a situation like this so I haven't really
thought about it from that perspective but I can understand that if you've gone through something
like this how how difficult it is to keep your faith? Yes absolutely absolutely and you know God

(29:46):
ultimately God is God and He does not make the horrible things happen but He is with us when they
do happen and that's that's my reconciliation that's my human reconciliation of how this all comes
together that we are not alone when when when the bad things happen and we have someone at our side

(30:07):
but we have sin in the world and sin is sin. Yeah and it you know again we look around and see all of the
the bad things that can happen and it does it makes you it makes you think it makes you like okay what
what are we what are we doing wrong what are we doing right how do we move forward and so I think

(30:30):
really a book like this makes you really think about that and I love the connection to
Christianity and faith and let's talk a little bit more about the authors that you work with so with
story brand to really talk about like how do you how do you help people how do you coach them through

(30:52):
what they want to put out in the world? Generally I coach them the the main primary focus is
your reader if you're if I'm talking to writers your reader is the hero you want to help them accomplish
their goals through especially when it's a nonfiction book right you've written a nonfiction work to
help someone so let's help them let's not make you the hero let's like make them the hero of their

(31:18):
own story and present you as the guide and Donna Miller says all the time we as as the writers play
the role of Yoda to where we're helping Luke Skywalker find his way we're saying I'm several steps
ahead of you and I can help you make some of them help you avoid some of the mistakes I've made
so that you can have a faster quicker healthier journey to your ultimate destination that's really

(31:44):
the plot of it and when we can talk to a reader in a way that helps them know that we understand the
problems and the challenges that they face because we've gone through them too it gives us empathy
it gives us authority and they can look to us and go she gets me like nobody else so our messaging is

(32:04):
really about helping that reader feel like you have read their mail you know what's going on in their
head and you can put words around things that they've only conceptually thought about they've never
had a way to describe those things and now they see that you've put and put words on the on a page
for them they feel like somebody finally understands me like nobody else has that's the ultimate goal

(32:29):
in connecting with a reader and that's a really big gift because it is it is that to make the reader
the hero of what you've written I think is always a challenge right because it was a fine line of
saying too much about yourself same thing like with coaching right you want to you want to be the

(32:50):
listener and then at times you feel like you really have to add something in because you know that
it could be beneficial so when you're talking about yourself and so I think the same is true in
storytelling like telling a story about yourself but being able to connect it back to the listener
to the reader so that they can feel like oh I could see myself in that situation or if I did that

(33:12):
I could see that it would make a difference in my life yes without question without question honestly
so I would listen to podcasts like this if you can help me with my confidence it's probably because
you've come from a place where you had to struggle with your confidence right and it makes me feel
understood and seen and heard and yes I'm going to listen because these ladies get me and they

(33:32):
know exactly what I'm feeling so let's switch gears now because you brought up confidence so let's
let's talk a little bit about confidence and really what let's start with what what what is confidence
mean to you confidence to me means and again I come from a faith perspective knowing that

(33:54):
it's okay to be curious and to try new things and to fail forward this is going to sound a little
bit bit cliche but it's okay to make mistakes publicly and know that I'm going to live through it
and it's going to make me stronger and I can go do the next thing now because I've learned from

(34:14):
the last thing that really adds to my confidence and and the ability to say yes I'm going to try
that I'm going to go for it and just see what happens it's embracing your failures yes that we
yes too often shy away we think oh my gosh our fear of failure is so much greater than our desire

(34:36):
to make a difference that we we don't know how to move forward and I'm like embrace those failures
that's how you learn like yes and I think today I was recording some videos and I was like okay these
are kind of ridiculous but you know what they're on point I'm out there whatever you know and
if two people watch them great if 200 even better but it's just it's how we have to do things and I

(35:00):
think that we shy away from that so often and I look at I don't know live I think that your
generation is maybe a little bit better about it I don't think you're as afraid to fail yeah I guess
I don't think people in my generation I don't know think of failure in the same way

(35:22):
and like I don't know we weren't like we didn't fail a lot as kids which I guess is you know some
some people say is a good thing something people say is a bad thing but I think now it does make
my generation like a little boulder because you know you're gonna get a participation trophy no matter

(35:44):
what so might as well speak your mind yeah but do you feel like it's still the case that you're
gonna get a participation I mean you're not getting one in law school that's for sure but I know
but I think like that mindset is still there yeah like you're gonna find your people no matter what
you're gonna like there's I don't know I feel like there's more of a safety net whether that's

(36:05):
just emotionally or mentally or if there's physically you know a community around you that people
are my age are more willing to take leaps yeah I see it both ways because I feel like the whole
participation trophy is sets kids up for really struggling later because they've never learned how

(36:29):
to fail and never learn to know have never understood that failure is a good thing because if you're
rewarded for everything you do no matter what I mean maybe I'm looking at it wrong maybe that is
the way to see it is that if you're rewarded for everything you do then you're gonna keep trying
whatever because failure doesn't even happen I think it's one of those issues that's not really

(36:50):
just like blocker white right like I don't think you should reward a kid for every behavior but I
also don't think you should only reward a kid when they're winning or when they don't fail yes yeah
I hear you I watched a video today okay again just random I'm trying to figure out how to do a

(37:11):
reaction video you guys are gonna laugh at me but you know we see these things on social media where
they watch a video and then they talk about the video and a video I saw today was a woman well actually
I think both parents they were in Walmart and the girl just like she's probably like eight to ten
years old she just started destroying everything and they just watched her do it they like didn't do

(37:34):
anything she's like breaking bottles and throwing stuff all over the place and it's like okay why I don't
understand but again the idea of saying to your child like this is not okay and I don't know is
that have to do with failing or probably not really but I was just thinking about that how I think

(37:57):
so yeah I was just thinking about how that I mean I think I'm connecting it back to the rewarding
everything right the participation part but I mean I think like failure and confidence do go hand
in hand but you know I guess yeah you need to experience failure to like understand confidence

(38:23):
because otherwise at least for me the way I understand it to be it would just kind of be blind
confidence and that that can also be like a double edged sword so let's talk about confidence and
writing because yeah that's a really interesting thing just to premises you say all the time mom

(38:44):
that I'm a great writer and that's probably the skill like that I have the least confidence in
even though I do like objectively the best in my classes and writing anytime makes it down to
right I can have like a complete lack of confidence so Kathy I'd love to hear what you you know say
to writers when they when when they struggle with that like am I good enough is this really the right

(39:06):
thing and I think we're all good enough and I think that we all have a different tone of voice
in a different writing voice so if and again this goes back to authenticity you don't want to write
to sound like someone else so write to sound like yourself again we talk about what people
say about our writing and someone once said to me Kathy I can almost hear your voice talking to me

(39:29):
when I read something you've written that's what we're after it's exactly what we're after so it's my
slang it's my contractions or not it's my it's my voice it's how I would literally speak to someone
who is sitting having coffee with me that's what you're after it's it's not about being polished
we used to really in high school when I was in high school a million years ago it was about

(39:52):
formal writing and don't use the contraction and make sure your periods and your sentences are full
and now it's fragments and you know it's it's it's just conversational and it's it's just
more real and more authentic than it's ever been you want to be clear clarity is a huge asset to
any writing style but you do absolutely want to be yourself and that's the most important piece and

(40:17):
that generates confidence practice generates confidence and I think too another way to look at
it's not about winning or losing it's about how much effort you put into something and if you can say
to yourself I really put in a great effort today doing this or that making videos or you know
writing a blog post whatever it is I can feel good about the effort that I put into that

(40:43):
that builds a tremendous amount of confidence yeah I think sometimes people have this misconception of
when they're writing that they need to write in a specific way and maybe it's because how I grew up
same kind of thing my writing in elementary middle high school you had to follow a certain format

(41:04):
and you couldn't just be yeah and I do think writing now is about the authenticity that's the way you
connect I I knew that I did good with my first book when one of my close friends said to me
I'm reading this and I hear you inside my head yes and right and that's what you want you want it to
be you I don't I don't write fancy I write like I speak and I think sometimes authors might

(41:28):
kind of feel like that's not the right way to do it because oh it's not good enough
when it is good enough that is definitely what you want yeah without question and I do think the practice
thing is important it's just like anything else the more you write the better you feel the more you
speak the better you get at it the more podcasts you do the better you get at it the more people that

(41:53):
you can positively affect in their lives that that's why I love doing what we do because I do think that
you can make such a difference with both the spoken word and the written word agree absolutely agree
words matter words have a tremendous amount of power too harm or to do good you know I think about

(42:14):
some of the hurtful words that I've received in my life and how I still carry those with me but I
also still carry the compliments and the encouragement at the same time so we we cannot underestimate
the power of words and really reaching out when someone does something that you're like wow doesn't
matter if you don't know them right wow that really affected me Olivia has and I'm working on

(42:38):
mine right now for 2025 a vision board in her closet where she collects things that she you know
aspires to but also I mean you can talk for yourself but you have things that letters that people
have sent you that she posts up there because you know what they they make you feel good right they
remind you like in days where you're not feeling good about something you can look at that and say oh
wow I made a difference there I made a difference there yes when you don't give yourself enough credit

(43:04):
yeah why you're doing what you're doing yeah we don't give ourselves enough credit for the things
that we're doing and so for the woman out there that's listening to this like you're making a
difference in your world and keep using your voice keep using your words because that's how we
change the world yes yes so live it's calendar time I want to hear Kathy's the best advice a woman in

(43:30):
her oh my gosh thank you for keeping me on track I almost forgot that one best advice I've ever
received it was from a very I would I would call her my mentor she is just a precious precious woman
in my life and I was kind of right right right about one of my teenage daughter one day and I'm like
she's wearing her holy jeans just to church and she shouldn't wear the and and she looked at me and she

(43:53):
said why because she wore something to school that she wouldn't wear to church why are there two
different standards and it was so gentle and kind and I made it sound really abrupt and kind of
harsh but it wasn't the delivery was was just sweet and soft and and what what her message was to me
was be authentic be who you are in public the same person you are in private and I have just
taken that and and run with it and I hear that in my head so often that I don't want to be

(44:18):
two different people I want to be one good person I really like that yeah I do too that's a good good
thing you asked the question live look at me look at me forget and forget what I'm doing here
okay now live it's time for your calendar willingness is a truth a true beauty that only you can

(44:39):
generate willingness is true the true beauty only you can generate yeah I like that I like that I
like that I think that it's we have to decide what we want what we're willing to do right if we're
talking about writing do you really want to write the book if you're willing to do it you got to
push through and keep doing it yeah yes yeah we always have a sometimes they truly connect her

(45:03):
calendars other times it just makes you think I think this one is just making making me think about
am I willing what am I willing to do so very good so Kathy
it was so nice having you on the podcast today so please tell us where tell everyone listening
where they can find you certain and where they can find your book I am just thrilled to be here my book

(45:28):
you can find it on amazon it is redemption with a with an apostrophe so that's those some people down
you can also find it on my website KathyMakintosh.com and then I am most active on instagram for social so
it's at KathyMakintosh coach and we'll have everything in the show notes so that you can buy her book go

(45:50):
out and buy her book share it with your friends I would love that and keep following her because she
is changing the world one word at a time very nice so such a pleasure to be here thank you so much
for joining us on this week's episode of her Unshagable Confidence always remember you are

(46:10):
Unshagable bye guys thank you for listening to her Unshagable Confidence with Simone and Olivia
Cannego we hope this episode has made your day just a little bit brighter and giving you the
inspiration you need to confidently go about your week always remember to be authentically you

(46:30):
don't forget to like and subscribe so you never miss an episode and feel free to connect with
them on instagram at Simone Cannego and at Olivia Cannego till next time

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