Desmond & Devaughn Unpack His Debut EP 'Open Gym'

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today, I've officially done something that I once said I
would never ever do, and that is released a project
of my own. It was only right to discuss the
release on h TRADG with no other none other than
my dog, my brother, my point guard, Devon, who returns
to the show today, Vaughn, Welcome back, brother. Were back
in the kitchen today. He got the layout again. That's

(00:21):
what the open gym is for. You. Think of Kobe
Bryant when I forget who he was training, but he
was somebody's child. He was saying, it's supposed to get
ugly here.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
This is where you missed. This is where you mess up.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
This is where you air ball, this is where you
miss lay ups. This is where you you can't do
that between the legs dribble. You're trying to get it
over and over again. It's ugly here, but it's beautiful
at the same time, seeking for life, that sense for longing,
like there's there's like that unfulfillment and feeling like something
is missing. And that's what I actually like love about

(00:53):
this song is like you can really fear about this.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
We talking about.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Practice of stinging game and bro I think this is
one of the most, if not the most memorable song
on these ev games. You dvone like you really know.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
You know what I've been through, you know my thoughts
and insecurities and everything, and I'm laying that in this song.
So yeah, I mean I meant those words.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
You know. The thing that just keeps coming to mind
is like, I hope people see themselves in it. Welcome
to Hip to the Games, the podcast for you, the
basketball junkie and the hip hop hit. I'm your host,
Desmond and I too have had hoop dreams and enjoy
the beautiful genre of hip hop and its history.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Together we will enjoy.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Some of the greatest albums, songs, artists, players, moments, teams,
and so much more, while even mixing the two on occasion.
All in my hope that you remember why you love
both or either of these to begin with. You'll soon
understand that Hip to the Games is more than just
a podcast. It's a lifestyle and if you were looking
for a platform that combines both basketball and hip hop,

(01:57):
you've come to the right place. They play my kind
of basketball and a lot of layers to this song.
If you're really paying attention, it's a huge shout out
to you for being hip to the Games. Welcome to
another episode of Hip to the Games. Whether you are

(02:18):
new to the H two DG family or a Day
one supporter, I appreciate you listening or watching today show.
All praise to the creative director of Jesus Christ as
it's always a blessing and get in front of this
microphone and share what he's put in my heart with you.
And a special special shout out to the Home Team
nineteen Media Group for the opportunity to represent a network
fill with passionate independent podcasters. If you consider yourself hip

(02:41):
to the Games, I would really appreciate it if you
did take a few seconds to give the show an
honest rating and review on all audio platforms like Apple
Podcasts or Spotify, so we can continue to grow this
H TWODG family. But in the meantime, today is a
special special episode. I know I say that a lot,
and I'm sure you can always tell anytime that this
brother is next to me here that it is a

(03:01):
special episode. And somehow, man I forgot. I often forget
that I am a man. A few hats I've been
in radio, I host a podcast, uh and and somehow
I still forget that occasionally, you know, I'd like to
be a participant in this thing we love called hip
hop and rap a little bit. And today I've officially
done something that I once said I would never ever do,

(03:25):
and that is released a project of my own. After
dropping three random singles over the past year, I dropped
my debut EP, Open Gym today, and of course it
was only right to discuss the release on h TRADG
with none other than my dog, my brother, my point guard, Devon,
who returns to the show today. Vaughn, Welcome back, brother.

(03:46):
We back in the kitchen today. We got the layout again.
How you feeling and great? Ready to celebrate my guy
and talk about everything over Jim today.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Congratulations, release, appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Appreciate you all man, Yes, sir, now, before any any
of you get it twisted, okay, this is this was
actually not totally my idea. I was pretty much of
the notion that I was just going to drop an
episode breaking down Open Gym pretty much how I do
any other song album. I did it from my own
singles before. That's what I was gonna do. But the

(04:20):
other night we were washing dishes and whatnot, and Mom
was like, you know, Dez, how did you how did
you think about uh, you know, doing something, doing an
episode on Open Gym.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
What was your thought protest on it? And that's when
you came to me.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
You was like, let's do a kind of a Zane
Low esque episode and just like talk about the album.
And again that's why a big reason why Divan is here, Like,
as an artist himself, he understood that it's important for
artists to have the space to talk about their art.
And right, you had been through that in college as
an artist and with illustration and graphics, paintings, you name it.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
So you it was dope.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
I thought it was really dope that you saw it
in that way In general. I didn't really think about
it that d but you said, like, you know, Dez,
let's change it up, and so, uh, Devon was like,
I want, like, let me ask you a few questions
and let's just talk about the album in more of
a free form format. So yeah, and obviously, Devon, you know,
like I said, you contributed majorly to this project. I mean,
obviously you're my brother, so like you're gonna relate to

(05:17):
a lot of things on the album, but of course
you're my dog Man, you my dog. So you know you.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Did the cover art.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
You hooked that up for me, man, And like you
really again, Man, what I love. I've said this about
the podcast too. You just do an excellent job, Devon
of bringing what's in my head to life. Like that
is to me is like the dopest thing, bro, Like
you are an artist through and through man, and and
you really like I was thinking about this the other day,
like Davonne, the dopest thing about the process. And obviously

(05:44):
we'll get more into it as we keep talking, but
the dopest part of the process in that regard was
like you were. You were keeping in my brain. You
were helping me. Remember, like Dez, you can do anything,
Like no matter what you want this cover to look like,
I want you to know we can execute. And a
lot of times I have that doubt of like, oh, well,
if we got the resources, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
But you were literally like.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Nah, Bro, we can make it no matter how how
many like hand me down products we use, whether we
like outside or in the house, Like, we can make
it happen. And like I look at the cover and
I like, think of all that the vast soul you know,
I think that's awesome. And again, if you want to
take the time to even speak on that too, if
you just want to get right into it, like Davon,

(06:26):
can you just talk about your view of the process
with the cover art and especially you know, kind of
breaking down for our listener where you were what you
were trying to execute with.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
The cover art for sure.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Bro. Yeah, So obviously it started with you Dez, like
you know, you kind of told me what you wanted
kind of the general idea of what you wanted the
photo personally, like hey, like it's got me like kind
of shooting like I'm you know, just a simple release
you know, at the shot, like and I wanted a silhouette,

(06:56):
I was like okay boom.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
So I immediately thought of.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
There were similarities to like, you know, Steph Curry just
released his book shot ready. Yeah, that was one of
the first photos I thought. I'm like, that's kind of
a similar thing, Like it's it's it's just simple focus
on the subject and it's it's on.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
The release of the shot.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
You can't see the rim, you can't see you barely
see the ball like something like that. You know. Yeah,
So when we when we came to to actually take
the photo. You know, we we obviously took took many
like wanted to get a general sense and see if
you know, you had any changing ideas as we were
kind of doing things. So I knew I wanted, like

(07:42):
the light source to have some kind of shadows and
to be able to kind of hide you a little bit,
and even and then enhancing that digitally if if we
needed to, which we ended up doing right. So yeah, man,
it was it was really simple direction and I think
it helped a lot. That's all is the thing too, Desk,
you knew exactly what you wanted, and you know, it

(08:03):
was kind of you. It was kind of easy, like
to just get something going. But but yeah, that that
was that for the photo. And I think it worked
out because my favorite part, and I think we talked
about this desk, is the way the shadows are are
there behind you, Yeah, where it's.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Almost like.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
You can still see the hoop, you know what I'm saying.
You can still like if you look at that left
upper left corner, Yeah, something's there.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah you don't know what's there.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
But exactly exactly. Bro. I love like that element. And
but yeah, man, he you you was talking about me.
But des it was really a true person project, man.
So you always been appreciate your your trusting me to
be able to, you know, exit help you execute your
your ideas, your vision and everything that you wanted this

(08:51):
project to be about. Yes, sir, yes or so Dvan,
But you got to talk about the easter eggs man,
talk about that background. Uh, you know, and obviously you
see more of it on the track, but talk you know,
spit some game on some of them images that you
used on like yeah, man, So so again, you know,
you you had already kind of a couple of things
that you wanted included, like you know, the Kobe Ai

(09:12):
KG and I just took that and ran with it,
and I said, okay, like what else can we do? So,
like I said, you wanted it to be like a
kind of collage set up, so I was kind of
just placing images and I'm like, all right, these aren't
desk his only favorite players.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
First of all, you can get some more jerseys, but yeah, man.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
And then over the time, like you know, thinking about
the project and what you had in mind, who you
are as an individual, like and then you know, being
able to hear like a little bit of what you
you allowed me to listen to even before this, from
what you recorded. I was kind of taking some of
those things like what was I feeling listening to it?

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Like literally the lyrics, Like what were you saying? Like
can we kind of put.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Some of that? And like I said, there's just kind
of knowing you like tapping back into that uh uh,
that that of us coming up the way we came up,
wanted to b NBA players and and you know, that
feeling of having an open gym to yourself Like what
was that like, you know, just kind of having that

(10:20):
freedom to just hoop and dream and believe that it
could happen. So I was kind of tapping big back
into those days as well. So that's kind of where
oh yes, the prayer hands. I like that kind of bronze, right, yeah, yeah, okay, okay,
yeah yeah. I found a really nice excuse me picture
of that. I wish I wanted to kind of include

(10:42):
at the start, like even a little bit more of
that texture like oh but but you know, it was
kind of it would have been like statuely like yeah, bro,
but but you know, I'm like, I don't know if
it's gonna take away some of the and it make
certain objects look a little more hidden.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
So yeah, but I still thought it was it was
a nice little easter egg. So yeah, when we got
a couple of sneakers, a couple of sneakers, uh, you
know your Kobe's had to get the machine. Notice you
put the Kobe's in the middle. You put them John Walls,
and you want everybody to know I had them, Rebot,

(11:19):
you know. It was it was funny thinking about that, man,
because I was like, okay, so I got the Kobe's
in there. It would hurt to put another shoe. And
I was trying to find, you know, some of the
other ones that you have, but they weren't popping up.
And I was like okay. And then for some reason,
like I said, just digg indep thinking about those days,
and I'm like, my god, the biggest John Boston when

(11:43):
he was in what was that seventh grade? Seventh grade? Man,
you had to have them shoes, no doubts about it.
You would because everybody was getting the black color. Yeah.
If you say that, everybody was getting that black and
blue joint. And I said, I want his home one.
Everybody getting them John, Yeah, bro, So so I had
to get those in there. I thought it was funny.
I kind of laughed to myself, but I'm like, man, see,

(12:07):
you probably don't know. Maybe you saw it in the
other video, the other episode on our birthday last year.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
But Vaughn is a nut man. He's a nut so
I knew he was.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Gonna put some stuff in here. I got to. I
got to but yeah, uh and then another portion of
the shoot, but got the Uh. I think one of
the Curry threes down at the bottom right, just but
a closer. Yeah, I can do all things, kind of
bringing some of the faith based Uh. I thought that
was really cool. Appreciate it. Yeah, along with the prayer

(12:35):
hands and stuff. So I, you know, I thought it
was really important to include that as well, because I'm sure,
you know, as we'll get into the album, you know
the ways that there's a lot of faith and and
you know, empowering lyrics in here and and and reflection.
So I kind of wanted to and then to be
able to like talk to yourself, give yourself that positive

(13:00):
kind of you know, take the courage to make the
steps of where you're trying to go and what you're
trying to achieve, so I thought that was important as well.
Then Yeah, it was just you know, East Bay Magazine
cover got Lebron chalk toss.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Another era.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I always talk about this when you was on your
bron Like way before Kobe like way, before your your
like game and your IQ and the way you view
basketball now changed like you know, big big Lebron stand
over here. That always feels like such a different period
of life it was, but like it's always funny. I
feel like people wouldn't expect that because I talked so

(13:36):
much Kobe t Mac like if you ain't in the
mid post, and Lebron do be in the mid post,
especially back then he was off triple threat, one dribble dunky.
But I digress, I digress. That was a time. That
was a time. But yeah, man, and then we got
we got rugger park down at the bottom. Oh yeah,
I was wondering what that was. Yeah, okay, I have
to get that in there. The basketball never stop. I

(13:57):
feel like that's the thing. You know, we could talk
about that one line.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
For probably a whole podcast.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
We could do on that era. Early twenty tens, elite
socks like Nike Graphic what they called with the text
on it like oh yeah, yeah, that was just era
for sure, bro, and like that that idea has never left,
like you that that idea has never left. So he's
in his bag. He was in his bag. And then yeah,

(14:24):
outside of that, it's really just you know, a couple
other that. Oh yeah, a couple other just kind of
NBA stuff in there, and then obviously the the like
Mike U in the top rights, you know, And I
thought the thing I'll say about that is I wanted
to include so at the top right is you know,

(14:46):
when they they busted, but the image kind of in
the middle you can barely see it is behind the
prayer hands, but it's when he put him on. So
you don't have those different experiences of like, you know,
the feeling when you put them on, but then the
feeling when they busted.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Everything went through, so god, you know, kind of.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Having the beginning and end of all that thinking about
your project, like, you know, I feel like there was
a metaphor there, you know, So I really wanted to
include something like that. That's see I didn't even peep that.
See that, I'm not faking the funk. I did not.
I did not even peep that On. So that's no,
that's awesome, dude, that's awesome. You did your thing, man,
you did your think that's what's saying. Vaughan, we trust,

(15:25):
put in the comments and Vaughan, we trust in Bond
we trust. But yeah, so that's what the cover art. Again,
great great stuff from Davon right there. But if you
want to actually get into the album, man, let's get
into it. I know you had some stuff that you
wanted to bring up as well, kind of switching in
a lot of ways, switch the switch the seat if
you will, Yeah, for sure, because you know, just just

(15:47):
real quick, you know, I've been I've been thinking about
it as and I was just like, you know, kind
of what you were saying in your intro, like you know,
like thes you know, you did something big here. You know,
like a lot of times we kind of undermine and
underestimate some of the the things that we we go through,
that we we endure and we conquer, and and especially creatively,

(16:10):
like anytime you can create something from nothing or very
little like that is a really special feeling and and
it deserves to be honored and celebrated, you know. So
I just wanted you to to you know, kind of
give you your flowers does and allow you to to
really like digest this and and celebrate this and in

(16:30):
the way that that you and the project deserves. Yeah,
for sure, we only fifteen minutes, come on. But but
with that said, man, let's let's get into it death.
So you know, as we we kind of talked about before.
So first things first is, uh, you know, when we
think back to especially around college maybe and then you

(16:53):
first started getting into rap, like poetry came first, yeah,
you know, and you you always said like once you
started rapp and that you wouldn't make music, you wouldn't
do any drops. It was strictly a hobby. Yeah. So
with all that in mind, there is like when did
you recognize that something might be changing, that you know
that I you know where it's kind of like, dang,

(17:15):
I might have to like really tap into this a
little bit more than I initially wanted to. That's a
great question because in a lot of ways, I can
say literally last year that happened when I dropped one
on one in Kemba Walker as singles, where I was like,
I was because I realized when I was writing I
wasn't just writing bars. I wasn't just writing punchlines. I

(17:36):
wasn't just writing verses. I was writing concepts. When I
knew that, like when I wrote one on one, I
knew that. When I I thought I was putting the
Kobe interview at the end, I was like, I'm doing
something entirely different, like I can't just.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Spit this on the GRAMD.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
This needs to be recorded and to your to answer
your question, I would say it was that that moment
when when that happened. Also, I thought, shout out Jay
piwell man, Jay Pile, let me go on the days
with him, right, And that was a great like warm
up for me as well, because that that's that was
literally my first day. That was my first everything was

(18:15):
a feature and and he even said something like that.
I think when I was on his show Artists like us,
I think when he was like, I think he had
introlled me or and maybe it might have been off
camera too, but he introlled me, and and you know,
he was like, man, this guy can rap.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
And I think he even did it. He did it
when I was on the Music.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Buzz, when I was on his podcast, shout out Preston,
Chris Fatima, everybody over there.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
But uh, he was saying.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
He's like, hey, he's like that when you rap, man,
you wrap like like you know, and I feel like
that it was like that big cousin energy of like
stop playing small like you rap, you do this, and
so like like I always kept it buried and like
you know, your people gonna gas you up. But like
it didn't really hit me until I started just coming
up with concepts like where I was like, my brain

(19:00):
is a little bit more conceptual than I think it is,
and now it's time, like it's time to really try
to do this, like rudeus. Yeah. So it wasn't like
you weren't really you weren't just writing things like maybe
in the past you were. You were writing things, you
were seeing things, you were hearing things like that. Oh
yeah yeah, oh yeah, Cause I say this all the time,

(19:23):
like that's what I love about rap. And I think
you could. I think really all art, all creativity.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
I think, Vaughan, you can. You can attest to this
like you saw me.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
I always say we was we didn't mind four ball
Friday right here out the side of the door right
before like it was literally like Vaughan, hurry up and
do like let's do this before we gotta walk outside
the bus. I'm gonna get it because it's four bars,
feel me real quick, and I'm a post it with
me advisory. So I was like, I gotta have it
ready because it's Friday. So I said, like, even back then, Dvon,
that was like twenty thirteen, we were sophomores in high school. No,

(19:55):
that was twenty fourteen. We were sophomores in high school.
So like, think about that. I forgot I went back
that far gans to high school. I like in in
that regard, I've been rapping for all what almost a
decade a decade, you know what I'm saying. So it's
like yeah, So it's like like the the roots were

(20:16):
planted that early. I was getting more. The only reason
I was consistent with four of bar Fridays because I
wanted Dame to see me because before we were teammates,
he was gonna know who I was because I did
his four bar Friday challenge. That's the way I saw it. Sorry, CJ. McCollums,
you're gonna be the sixth man. I'm gonna take over.
We're gonna get championships. Just see my vision. And that's
like like when you're young, and you swear you got

(20:37):
it all planned out. But eventually, you know, my competitive
side was coming out, and they did a great job
of establishing that, like, yo, you can be a top
four participant with this, Like we not just we're doing
this for fun, but the goal is to be top four.
So I was chasing that, but then I was I
got to a point I'm like, man, they ain't sweating
me because I'm young. You know, I don't have problems.

(20:58):
I don't have bills, I don't have you know, life,
you know. But so once I was on and off college,
like it was nine years to finally be like yo,
nine ten years, I'm finally like, yo, like I want
to I think I do want to do this a
little bit. And that's why I said in my caption,
like literally shout out to everybody who saw this in
me long before. Man, we could talk about Amber and

(21:19):
I don't want to get too sidetracked, but yeah, like
and if you don't know, Amber is our older sister,
and she shout out amb love, yes, so much love.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
But she got to be the.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Most I don't think I'm ever gonna meet anybody as
emotionally intelligent and as intuitive as she is, because you know,
she always has she has that way about her where
the things she says she'd be right and and like
that was one of the things I remember she posted
one day She's like you, I think she was either
on my DMS or something and she was like, you know,
she'd just be playing with it.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
She was like, I think you need to be a rapper.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Like that was all she said. I think you are
a rapper. And you know me at that time, I'm like,
get out of my face, am like you know. But
but it's also those things where I say that and
then like I'll bell be like sleeping in the middle
of night, and I'll be like.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
She kind of right, yeah, yeah, she kind of she
do be right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
She do be right. Like Dane. Yeah, so you know
me my stubborn. But so I'm like, nah, she right,
she right. And so I think about all of that Davonne.
So yeah, man, But to answer your question, I would
say definitely last year. Definitely last year twenty twenty four. Yeah,
you know, as you said, you know there, appreciate you sharing.
There was a lot that I forgot to even think about.

(22:32):
Des Like you know, four bar Friday like that could
be a whole thing too. We might have to say
and talk do a little more discussion on like that
that your journey to wrap is okay, yeah, but yeah
shout out four bar Friday. I remember those experience. I
feel like, does the quick thing I'll say about four
bar Friday. I feel like those days that was really
like does you you know getting your shots up? You

(22:55):
you like that that uh you know, maybe under ground
boxer in the gym, like he's back there in the corner,
he's getting trained with our our guy right here. He
ain't ready to fight yet or he might be next.
That's what I remember about the four bar fight. Yeah, yeah, bro,
that that that I feel like allowed you to really

(23:16):
practice and you didn't even know like what was coming right,
you know, but it allowed you to get comfortable to
peep the game a little bit, as you said, you know,
still being young, and then develop your skills in a
way like okay, like okay, I'm seeing what this person doing,
that person doing.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
How can I do that in my way?

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Like you know, or I got some of that too,
like or but they don't got this, like you know.
It allowed you to kind of just like basketball, you know,
you you kind of scout.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
You see things like, Okay, this.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Guy at my position, he's pretty good, but he's not
as fast. You know, he may not be as fast,
or you know, maybe they're not taking direction. Well like
let me you know what I'm saying, like, see what
I can use to my advantage to get ahead?

Speaker 2 (24:02):
And it's nothing on these people.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's just the nature of competition, like, you know, how
can I make sure that I get to where I
want to go? And you know, sometimes you gotta take
those steps up to you know, to to get ahead
and beat the competition. Yes, sir, yes, sir. So yeah,
and I think that I think that that's what those
days did for you.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
You're absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Those are my sparing sessions. Those are my sparing sessions.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Man, So getting into it from one of days, let's
talk about the title open gym okay and why that
was something that stuck with you when you were writing
your songs, because even when you first kind of proposed
the idea to me, this is you know, it seems
you had the title already. Yeah, and you know I
can kind of resonate with that, like now that I'm

(24:48):
thinking about it, because I told you sometimes, like with
with my some of my art, like the titles came
first and then but then they would change at the end.
This one didn't change at the end, right, you know.
And I had there's times, you know, it didn't change
at the end. A lot of times it would, So
I was kind of interested about that. There It's like,

(25:09):
why did you refuse to change it? Or did something
else ever come to mind after just talk about the
title and the overall concept?

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Man, So it was it was like day one, that
was the one that just kept again. I know, you know,
you can relate that for some reason, that was the
one that kept coming to me, and it stuck like
like I was gonna say Elmer's Glue, but no, this
is Gorilla glue.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
It was not budget.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
So I was like open gen stupid. I was like
open gen. That's it, open gen like and that from
day one, it was like even and even like when
I first did it, it was like I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
But it's open gen. It's gonna be open gen.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
And that I had that on my it was saved
and I put a folder in my in my computer
US in case open gym EP and and I had
a Twitter draft when I especially once I dropped one
on one in Kemba Walker. Yeah, I had a Twitter
draft because that was when I started thinking, like, you're
dropping singles. Usually singles lead to albums if you're doing

(26:16):
it right, and then like you're really trying to do this,
your singles are going to show up on eventual albums.
And so I was like, Okay, if open gym is real,
let me do seven tracks for my jersey number. Let
me start small, seven tracks for my jersey number. That's
what it's gonna be. It's gonna be a EP. And
when I so when I thought of the title, you know,

(26:38):
because I always think of like when I was, when
we were little and like high school. I'm little, but
high school. I would always tell you, I'm like Van,
I just want a real gym with a real rim,
real hoop, real air, real water fountains, real squeaking of
the sneakers, like I want a real gym like and again,
I think because there were moments, right, like the reason

(27:00):
why we stayed in regular gym in high school was
literally because they got to hoop more than the people
that did joint training. So I sacrificed looking like the
rock for hooping. That's how much we love the game.
I felt like also, it was like, but you get
to a point where it's like, I'm tired of this
person running up on me. I'm tired of all these
dudes running around. They ball in our court, were trying

(27:22):
to play half, they trying to play full. All this commotion,
it's like, I just want to be by myself. And
it's like an introvert thing, right. But Davon again, I
think we were such NBA heads. They got open gyms,
they in there by themselves. I want to be by myself, right,
So that was always funny to me. So I think
that was part of it. But the bigger, deeper theme

(27:45):
in it was just the mind is an open gym.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
And if you look on.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
The band camp page, you'll see that that's what the
summary of the album is. Like I mentioned how it's
that last line. It's like the where the beauty of
practice is revealed through the moments of hard work that
most players are scared to confront. That's what the open
gym is for. You think of Kobe Bryant when he

(28:11):
I forget who he was training, but he was saying,
somebody's child he was saying, it's supposed to get ugly here.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
This is where you missed. This is where you mess up.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
This is where you airball, this is where you miss layups.
This is where you can't do that between the legs, dribble.
You're trying to get it over and over again. It's
ugly here, but it's beautiful at the same time. And
that's what I thought with this album, Like okay, because
because even for me, Vaughan, you know me, like I
try to be the positive guy. I try to be
the strong guy. I try to be the guy that's encouraging.
I always say I think that trait really runs in

(28:41):
our family, Like if one thing God put in the
piles is encouragement, and so I always like to be that.
But Open Jim, when you really listen to it is
a pretty you know, I hate to use the word,
but it is a pretty negative album to a certain
degree because it's so open. So my thing was, it's
not open gym in terms of of fifty million dudes
running around trying to make each other better, but this

(29:04):
is open gym.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
It's like, nah, I'm here at five in the morning.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
It's just me. The only thing you hear is the
basket and the ball bouncing, and we're gonna do this.
I don't know what's in store today. I might make
shots today, I might miss shots today. But this is
the open gym, Like the life is a lot like
this open gym. You learn a lot through this game.
I'm sure, Davon, you can have your own podcast on it.
You learn a lot. The game of basketball has really

(29:29):
become a teacher as you get older, you know, So
it was really all that packed into one thing. God
love that, bro, I love that.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
I think that is so evident too when you listen
to it. There's like just how you know, like I
kind of like see this picture does it's like you
walking in the gym, Like you're in the gym and
some like in moments, I can see you shooting. Maybe
you make a couple, maybe you miss a couple, but

(29:57):
it's like nothing is you not really getting down on
yourself no matter what happens. It's just the process, you know,
it's just you're It's that space is allowing you to
work out everything that goes on up in here, you know,
like that constant like the brain, the mind and the
gym it's it's all the same when you really think

(30:18):
about it. Yes, exactly exactly, Bro. So yeah, man to
to kind of get into it and really start. So
I know, traditionally you des and and I know the
listeners here, uh that have been around and have tuned
into your album breakdowns and things like that, you usually
go song by song. We we might do that at times,

(30:40):
but it's it's really kind of just gonna.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Be off the cup.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
That's cool, that's cool. It's your show, your show.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
But I knew he wasn't gonna take it.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
I knew he wasn't gonna take it. But but no,
so but for for right now, like I do want
to start with like Mike, Yes, sir, the opener to
the album, the.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Gym is open. We're up in here right.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Off the bat, you come out with like Mike, and uh,
I thought this is a great opening track. Thank you, Bro,
Thank you of course, Bro. The storytelling, the dreaminess like
the the so first of all that instrumental, yeah, uh,
talk talk about that instrumental and does I'll just give
you the florid to talk about kind of how like

(31:26):
Mike came about and as especially as far as you know,
kind of bringing in some.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Of the traits to the movie.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
I'm gonna ask another question in relation to that, Okay,
just in the general sense, talk about the how, the
instrumental and everything that came about. Okay, yeah, for sure,
So the instrumental, Like anybody that knows me knows, DJ
Premiere is my goal, you know. And that's no to
Doctor Dre.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
It's weird.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
We live in an age where everybody, if you don't
like apples, you gotta mention that. It's okay that I
do like apples. I just like oranges more so. Yes,
Doctor Dre is great, alchemist is great, is transcendent. But
DJ Premiere to me is just it's just something about
that boom back. He touched your soul. Man, He will
touch your soul as a hip hop head, but he
knows how to touch your soul as a human being.

(32:11):
And so when I came across that, like I said, honestly,
I was reminded of it. When her posted on her
story she posted a picture, uh, just a selfie to
that to that song. She but she had that song,
and that's what everybody was saying, you know, they be saying,
like scaring the girls, like the PG version scaring the
girls music like yeah, yeah, and but they like this
is proof that that that ain't true, like look at her,

(32:33):
like she she bump that DJ premiere on Westside gun
Rome Street. So I was like, the man, that instrumental
is crazy. So I always it became one of those
my like my north star, like I want to rap
on that. I want to rap on that. And so
Davone was you you already know, bro. We were sitting
the first time we were sitting here, yeah, and I
was just playing the music and we freestyling like we

(32:54):
do and and it was just like purely for fun.
At that point we were eating like yeah, it was
like noah, it was like any other day, any other day,
and we cracking up, having a good time. But then
like you know me, like I'm gonna still think about that,
like I did want to rap on that still, And
then obviously I was creatively dead for like some time
and it just wasn't coming back. I had the conversation

(33:15):
with you when I when I showed you practice and
you were telling me like Dez, what is stopping you
from putting these songs out? Like what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (33:23):
And that woke me up I'm telling you go you
put the battery in my back.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Bro. I was like, I need to finish that song.
I need a master mix and master practice and I
need to finish this. I'm doing open gym and so yeah, man,
that beat. That beat is just like you said, it's dreamy,
it's it's and and now there are drums in it,
but there are sections of that instrumental where it's drumless,
and drumless beats have become a big thing the last

(33:47):
few years in hip hop. So again part of me
was like, I want to show that I can wrap
on a drum less beat because I'm so drum I'm
so drum heavy, like especially I'm a DJ Premier fan,
like he always gonna have drums, his drum's gonna be knocking.
But it's it's like at the same time, I'm like, nah,
like this is the wave. I want to show that
I can slide on that too. And so that's the
other reason why I did it. So as I thought

(34:09):
about the song. When you listen to the song, like
the song is DJ Premiere, Runway, Westside Gun and Rome Streets,
and they literally did that for like a fashion show.
I forget where that's where it was why it was
called runway and and and literally it looks like a
vinyl like their cover art, but that's literally how the
runway looked. It was like a circle. So they was
in their bag. But in that song Westside Gun the

(34:32):
hook used to want to be like my. Now I
got fifty in the mics, and so that that's and
one thing about me. If you notice on a lot
of these instrumentals that I picked, I paid homage in
some way, shape or form. I did it with one
on one, I did it with like Mike. Like. So
that was the first one. I'm like, how can I
spend that? I used to want to be like my

(34:55):
used to want to be like my And you know
that sounds like the commercial, right the jingle. So I was,
so I'm thinking of my verse and I'm like, see,
I used to want to be like Mike, and now
you said, I'm tapping into when we were young. I
used to be like Mike. But not only that. Like
Mike is the greatest thinking basketball movie of all time.
If you are born after nineteen nineties five cis so

(35:22):
like Mike, like Davone, that's our movie, bro, that is
our movie. So it was like the heart thing too,
where like I can do this and yeah I have to.
And so when I thought of the first few lines, see,
I used to want to be like Mike till my
dreams hit Los Angeles Knights. I'm playing on night and day.
But Los Angeles Knights was the name of the basketball team, right, Yeah,

(35:46):
I love the game, but couldn't fit them like Blue Knights.
It didn't work out for you know what I'm saying.
The way that I hold, the way that line like
pull like the first time you played it for me,
like I was like, man like just that ability bro
to you have that like relatability ability to like really

(36:06):
like there's like the way that that you you took
that what was within yourself and you turned it like
into something that you know, like we all feel and
at one point, at many points in our lives like
that feeling of like I didn't why not need? Like yeah,

(36:26):
I feel there's like you tapped into that and and
turned it into such a great story. Like so so
I kept going and it was like loot of game,
but couldn't fit them like Blue Nikes. Right. Shout out
Ray Kwan because on Wu Tang, he said, I kick
it like a Nike flight, right, he didn't say Nike.
And I just saw a tweet the other day that
said rappers that mispronounced words on purpose and like the

(36:49):
Greater than Science, that's how they say it in the UK.
So people a word okay, So yeah, so I did that.
So yeah, I didn't say Mike's because I would have
said the same word, which is okay sometimes. But I
was like, look, the game couldn't fit them, like blue Nikes.
I crossed left, but somehow it don't seem right right.
You play with directions, but it's the basketball literally, like
the I cross left. Somehow it don't seem right. And

(37:11):
then when I said, does the father got my steps?
Or am I missing the point? Why my kicks feel
like the ones you forgot to annoint because the movie
The Magic Kicks. But playing on the fact that I
feel like my steps aren't ordered, I knew I have
to finish this. I don't care what the end result
of this looks like. I'm finishing this song and it's

(37:33):
gonna be called like Mike. Yeah, wow, bro, I'm saying
like that. That line was another one like wow, because
even in the movie, like the lightning, like just the
storm happening. Yeah, and the fact that the shoes got
up there, like what if there was another pair of shoes,
you know what I'm saying, Like they hit those ones, yeah,
you know they Like finally, it took something like that

(37:55):
to hit yours. And not only did it like it
gave you the just supernatural black cat ability on the
on the for sure. But since we were getting into
two lines two des so, I do just want to
point out where you said life straight up out a movie,

(38:17):
but it's missing a scene. Regardless of my status and
the Kobeous cream, I still yearn for the life that
every kid dreams. Although I keep hope hoping something in
me is howling. I don't live just like Mike, but
it's time to be Calvin. So I wanted to talk
about this one because I think this is another one

(38:37):
that's kind of like, so is this a So first,
I'll say, I'll just ask you this, in what ways
do you feel like you've lived like Mike?

Speaker 2 (38:47):
And what doesn't mean to be Calvin?

Speaker 1 (38:51):
This is a great question. So if you if you,
if you listening, that so the thing about like Mike
that versus me, that second verse is Calvin, which is
crazy because you like, well, Doug Calvin like bow Wow
was a rapper, like why Like in a perfect world,
I would have just got him on the feature. But

(39:13):
my brain was like if at the end of the
movie Calvin said he wanted to be a regular kid again,
Yeah right, what would he rap? Why? Why did he
want to be a regular kid? And so my brain
was like rap it as if you're answering that question,
what if why does Calvin want to be a regular
kid again?

Speaker 2 (39:30):
So that whole versus him?

Speaker 1 (39:32):
It ain't dead, it ain't fully me, but it is
there is some me in there. So I love that
you brought that up. So yes, started again. So memorization,
it's all good and just drop like you know, you
record stuff and you you know what I'm saying. But uh,
life straight upbout a movie, but it's missing the scene. Okay,
life straight up out a movie, but it's missing the scene.

(39:54):
Regardless of the status and the kopious cream, I still
yearn for the life that every kid dreams. Although I
keep hoop, something in me is howling. I don't live
just like Mike. So it's time to be Calvin. So yeah,
So it's like again, Calvin, he was living a dream, right,
he became an NBA player at thirteen years old, Like
he led the Knights to the playoffs AF today we're
a lottery team and yeah, man, So it was like,

(40:18):
that's why I felt like it was so perfect to
be the first song on the album, because that's why
I ended it the way that I ended it, like
kind of abruptly, like although I keep hooping, something to
me as howling, I don't live just like Mike. But
it's time to be Calvin. That's basically me saying, all right, y'all,
this is open gym, is gonna be fun. It's a

(40:41):
lot of basketball references in here, but it's time to
give you Desmond, Like this project ain't really what you
might think is gonna be. And I wish I could
give you something a little more hype and a little
more joyous and a little more Bible verse Bible verse,
But in this season that I'm in, that's not how
it feels. And just like Calvin, right, I don't live
the dream. I'm an NBA player, I got the money,

(41:03):
I got all this stuff. I don't have a family.
What I wanted was a family that didn't give me
no family. So it's like I do feel a little
weird still hooping because I still my my my heart
still yearns to be like a part of a family
and not just an orphan right. So that's that's essentially

(41:24):
what that was. I think that's essentially what that was.
Bro like me kind of breaking that chain the same
way Calvin did at the end of the movie, and
and and trying and seeking for like that sense of belonging.
Like there's there's like that unfulfillment and feeling like something
is missing. And that's what I actually like love about

(41:44):
this song is like you can really feel that there
is like you know, trying to figure out like what
it is that you're yearning for it, you know. Yeah,
And that's a kind of bigger theme throughout the album, right,
Like and even even when I said that, right, life
straight up out a movie, but it's missing a scene
that it's literally like like Mike, it's off the movie.
But Calvin again, he's living a movie, like as the

(42:06):
kids say, like his life is a movie because he's
an NBA player and all that stuff. But it's missing
a scene, right, the scene of me being a part
of a family.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, that's what's I love that.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
I love that. Thank you. It's a great opening track man,
And yeah, I think you you the the similarities between
the movie between Calvin story and and the things that
that you're going through des and dealing with, like you
bridge the gap so so well where it feels like
there is no gap, you know. So I appreciate very good,
great stuff. De thank you. So then after that is

(42:41):
is Holy Goals, which we we've mentioned before. You know,
our listener here may already know because when you dropped
Holy Goes.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
This is the first one.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Of the singles sequence. Yes, yeah, the first one of
the singles, uh you know, which we're also one on
one in Kemba Walker. So the thing about about Holy
Ghost Deads I just wanted to say is it's almost prayerful,
you know. I think it follows up like Mike will
and it's almost it makes me think of like those

(43:12):
moments where you're kind of laying in bed like about
to go to sleep, and you're just like talking to
God like you are but your are like really your
mind is running, but like I'm trying, like but I
want to talk to God and it's just like you know,
you just up like you lay in the bed and
you're just like, bro, like I'm not sleeping right now,
I need to like you know what's going through my head?

(43:33):
Like I feel like this song is that of the
project that kind of lying in bed. So you know,
if you if you wanted to add anything about Holy
Ghost DEAs and like howcuse because the one line I
feel like that always sticks is that last one.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, the only ghost I feel is the one that
asked for trust. Oh yeah, you only ghost I fear?

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, So you know, is there anything else
that you wanted to add about how Holy Ghost is
and how you know, like the the importance of of
include making sure that was in the project? Oh yeah, man,
I think you nailed it, Vaughan. I think and honestly
I didn't really think about it that way, but I
I probably would have said in other words, but that's
that's really what it is.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
It is.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
It is kind of a prayer in that regard because
like I said, when again that that's a big shout
out to Jay Powell where like that you know, he
dropped that B tape and I was like, you just
gonna hide this from us. So I'm like I'm rapping
on it, and you know, I bought it and and
everything and I and I and I and I wrapped
on it and sent it to him and everything, and uh,
like I put in the subject line I said, this
is your fault. I think that's something like that. And

(44:39):
so like I will again like you know, that's that's
somebody that that that I've gotten to knowing this in
this little like what I want to community, we've kind
of built like across like me the skills Harris unregistered user.
Like it's it's crazy that just what a podcast birth,
you know what I'm saying. And and so I like
obviously like I was like, hey, yeah, that's going on

(45:00):
the album, like you know, so that that's pretty much
why I was on there. But yeah, Von, it was
it was it was prayerful in that regard, and and
like like I said, like even for me, I'm still
like exploring what that line means, like you know, uh,
And yet the only ghost I fear is the one
that asks for trust. Like again, because God is not
gonna tell you the full picture, he gonna ask for
your trust. And and that's also play on the eeriness

(45:22):
of it right like ghosts.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
You know, ghosts.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Ghosts aren't out to get your trust, right, They're out
to get you. But like at the same time, like
imagine that, right, the Holy Ghost he wants your trust.
That's a little scary where you don't know where your
head is, you know. So I wanted to play on
that spookiness of it, right and crazy enough, this is
this is dropping a few days before Halloween. So if
it's so, hey, man, I'll take it. But yeah, man,

(45:46):
that you know, Devon, I think you nailed it though, Bro,
that's exactly what it is. Like you if you up
at night like me, like us, and and you just
out here like where you're trying to sleep but you
can't rest. Yeah that's yeah, yeah, we we don't all
in there, but that's that's what that is, man, Like
Holy Ghost is just kind of that. Just again, I
mentioned a lot of things on this album that I

(46:07):
struggle with, Like again, I don't want to get too
far ahead of you know, you're okay, but like I said,
it's just those some of those basic things, like I said,
I'm a dreamer. I can't help it. A lot of
times I'm a dreamer, and and that and as I
get older, I recognize that I'm a dreamer to a fault.
I can recognize that and be honest with myself. We
talked about that a lot, being honest with yourself. That

(46:27):
that's scary when you have those conversations with yourself where
it's like, dang, Like, is the reason why my life
going the way is going? Is because I'm a dreamer?
Like again, we could talk about so much, bro, Like,
you know, I know you got other stuff you want
to talk about, so I don't want to go too
far down the thing, but you know you I think
about that.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Like one of the things I really really really.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Have a gripe with myself about is that as I
get older, Like why is it that you know, I
tend to get weirdy and well doing Why is it
that I just it's been safer for me to dream.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
It's been safer for me to you.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Know, in my head, I can be an NBA superstar
in my head, I got the money in my head,
I can I see myself buying my mama house. But
the hard part is trying to put in that work
so you can get that and being rejected, feeling like
you're being overlooked.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
That's hard to stomach.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
So by defense mechanism, you're You're like, I'm trying to
live it through other ways. I'm trying to dream about
it because it doesn't seem possible to grasp. That's something
that I'm really wrestling with. Like I've told you, man,
if you're in your twenties, me and Davonne fully understand
what it means, what people mean when they say your

(47:42):
twenties are rough. Our first half of the twenties, it's
all good. It was we was kind of cruising, but
this second half, like we just like Calvin and Murphy, No,
for real, that's real. I appreciate you sharing, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
And I think a lot of those things come up.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
They do it underneath, like it's it's really a constant
like when you do it, there's like, you know, and
there's not that much break between the songs, which I
think allows that.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
You know again, just next shot, next, you.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Know, like, but you know, I think that that's it's
all a great metaphor to the point the whole objective
and goal of this album, and then you know again
talking about Kemba Walker obviously featuring the Heavens EP instrumental.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah, shot off playing that a hundred times a day.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, there there was a moment I was like that
it was that was your joint, Yeah, that was your joy.
It was. But yeah, man, I think the things that
stand out about this track is like those feelings of
isolation pun intended like isolation, the loneliness and then isolation
Kobe Kobe again. I think this is a different type

(49:01):
of prayer though. I think this one is a little
more optimistic in a way too. There's like a little
more hopeful. Yeah, a little more hopeful. I agree with that.
And you know, it's like similar to to an athlete,
to anybody, you know, anybody in their nine to five,
like desk job whatever. It's like that kind of prayer.
You pray for extra strain, Like you know, I know

(49:24):
what the objective is, I know what I'm supposed to do,
but lord, I just need like a little bit more
just to get through.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
I just That's what I feel like this song is.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
It is like, as you said, like even with some
of the heavy things, when you really think about it
and process and as you listen to to the songs
like this one does feature some optimists and the ambition
like I thought about you know, ambition was always a
big track for us, like in terms, yeah, man, And
I feel like this song is that in your.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Ep oh you know I love that, you know I
love that.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
And it gives you that image of like somebody that's
ready for the moment and uh, you know, trying to
prepare for the moment simultaneously and is like kind of
getting gearing themselves up, like all right, like I can
I can show up, like if I put the time
in and if I think about everything I've done up
to this point.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Like come on, why not me?

Speaker 1 (50:21):
You know? Why not me?

Speaker 2 (50:22):
That's true Vaughan And and again you nailed it.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
And and you know, of course I I released separate
episodes breaking these down kemba walker in one on one right,
But yeah, man, that's what that is. You're right, man,
Like you're putting stuff in my brain that I didn't
really focus on too heavy, But yeah, man, that that's there.
And I think it's also like a like an eye Lord,
you see me, You see me about to shoot this shot,

(50:45):
don't you? And and and I don't know what's gonna happen. Yeah,
but with this little must to see faith that I
got same thing I mentioned in Holy Gals, with the
little bit of faith that I have to motion my
arm to shoot this shot. I want you to know
that I'm trying. I want you to know that I'm
finna do it. I'm gonna do it. What's that? What's
that from the movie. It's like the audio everybody using

(51:08):
on TikTok, I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Like that's how that feels. Like I'm right on the edge, Like, Lord,
you know how I feel. But I'm gonna shoot it. Yeah,
I'm gonna shoot it because you're watching me. I'm not
feeling much direction. So, like I always say about Call
of Duty, when you play Call of Duty campaigns, there
comes a point where you're not supposed to be following everybody.

(51:31):
They want you to go through that door first. They
want you to run into the zombie first. They want
you to run into all the commotion first. They want
you to jump into the fox hole right, and like,
you gotta play the game sometimes, like when you when
you young, and you scared, and you gotta you act
like you're going forward and you pedal back. You act
like you're going for it, and then they finally like
come on, and then they like like but sometimes you

(51:51):
gotta be the one to run up in that house.
And then there's some cut scene where you get blown
and then yeah, it's like, oh let me help you up.
You why I was gonna get hit? Like it Like
it feels like that you are like the bevery days
because like sometimes the thing with those with the call
of duty like you sometimes like in the houses, you
think like, okay, I just gotta open the door. No,

(52:13):
you gotta go up the stairs too, like and somebody
gonna be right there with a gat in your eye.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
But uh but no, man, you know, kind of sidetracking
those two days.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I wanted to ask this. You brought this up earlier,
and I should have asked it then.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Uh. But you know, thinking about some of these songs
and these these instrumentals, like it seems that for some
of them, if not majority of them, have kind of came.
They just came like organically, like to you, like, oh yeah,
it's got to happen, like maybe you heard something or
you saw something or you thought about it. But I

(52:51):
just wanted to ask you, for one about how how
did you go about did you have any doubts about
any of the instrumentals, were there others that you considered,
and then you maybe talk a little bit of take
take a minute with pause a little bit, and I
want to get more into like the instrumental part, the

(53:12):
mixer excuse me, the mixing and mastering portions, because that's
something a do skill you've been learning to like through
this project. So kind of you know, talk about all
that day is like, yeah, that's a good question, man.
I think yeah. So a lot of it was organic,
And I think other mcs will tell you when when
the bars just start coming, you know you got something.

(53:34):
I would say it was like that with Kemba Walker,
Like I said one the bars came first, or like
like they came quick, the caame quick.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
One on one was like that, Like I said, I
had that. Uh now my switches turned on like DNX
with the songs, got that, but the outside keeping like
that part that was I had that set in stone,
so I knew I just had to work around it
and then by the grace of God, like it was flown.
So a lot of again like I with One on One,
it was like I heard that song on the rhaps

(54:05):
of the album please don't cry, and I said, yeah,
I want to. I want to go off like they
going off. When I heard Heaven's EP, I was like, oh,
I see why Vaughn Is listened to this over and
over and over again. And then it was like oh shoot,
and I had that inkling of like you need to
write to this, and I did and it worked out.
Like I said, like Mike, that was like once I
put the story together, it was like I gotta run

(54:26):
with like like Jay Cole said, like I gotta trust
that the next line is gonna take me to where
I'm supposed to be. I gotta trust the next line.
So a lot of these instrumentals were like that. I'm
trying to think of other ones, Like I said, Jay Powell,
Holy Ghosts. I knew instantly I'm rapping this like that
flowed the minute I heard it. Stuff was coming to
my head. So a lot of times you heard the

(54:47):
instrumental first and then the yes game yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Did you were you?

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Kind of like eminem at all everdays like did you?
I made who is? But like did you have the
uh like anything written down on ready? And then went
back to it, Well, yeah, I heard something yes, fun
fact Holy Ghost when I said, though the path gets narrow,
please don't let me ditch No, Nintendo, I ain't trying

(55:13):
to switch. I had a whole Instagram freestyle I was
gonna rap with that punchline in it, totally different bars,
but that punchline was still there, and so that happened
to fit with Holy Ghosts.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
So I just went in.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
That was a yeah, fresh project with that section. Okay
you all you had was that? Yes?

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Then you built around it?

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Well yeah, Like I had that a whole separate freestyle
and I said this this, but these bars can fit.
I really want to say this, this this is like,
it fits with what I'm trying to say. So I
brought it to Holy Ghost. So yeah, uh and like Mike,
the uh, the page line, the pagefeckers thing like that
was on my Twitter drafts a whole different, like I was.

(55:54):
That was the a definition of a rough draft. Sometimes
I'll write skip a line, right, skip a line, like
I'll have sections of punchlines. That was one of those.
I was able to merge that into like Mic so Yes,
most of the time I hear the beat and the
bars flow. Other times it's like, yo, remember that punchline.
You gots sitting in your Gmail draft, go get that
like it's like that, you know, and then and then

(56:16):
other times it's just completely organic. But I would say,
for the most part is organic. But the inner m
seeing me is like, you know, we always playing with words.
You know. We could be at the grocery store with
mom and I'll be We'll be in the freezer aile.
She'd be like, she'll ask me something and be like yes,
and I'll be like, oh, you know, because I'm probably
like like, let me hold up before we turn this corner.
Let me write this down on my Twitter draft for
I forget later. Like you know, that's that's sometimes how

(56:38):
it would be. Man got you. Yeah, always what they
call it, just always working, even when you think you
shutting off, He's always moving for real. I know you
said something about the instrumental Did I answer everything? Yeah?
That was good? That okay? But yeah, and then if
you just want to talk about the learning process of
mixing and mastering, how's that been going? What did you

(56:58):
learn through that? Oh? My?

Speaker 2 (57:00):
You know, how you feeling moving forward?

Speaker 1 (57:02):
I see why they pay all the mixing. I see
why a lot of you rappers don't want to learn
it's it's yeah, like shout out Al Summers. Man. I
can't thank him enough because even now, like that's what
I realized through this process. So in my brain he
mixed one on one Kemba Walker. Holy goes for me.
He and you know, obviously he did the honors of

(57:24):
mixing and mastering. You know, mixing and mastering is a
separate thing. Mixing is just assembling pretty much, and mastering
is really getting it to sound the way it needs
to sound. What I didn't know is all that is
up to you. So when when I'm my the way
my brain works is, oh, hey, l Summers, I really
like how you did Kemba Walker. Just send me the

(57:47):
plugins that you used, tell me what the numbers are,
and let me put that joint in mind like music theory, right,
Like how hard can it be? And and I'm sitting
down doing it, and I'm texting, I'm blowing up his
email his IGDM. I'm like, yo, man, okay, like what

(58:08):
do you think about this? I'm trying to do this,
but it don't really sound like how you want it.
And like he finally tell me, like, bro, it's not
gonna sound like how you want it, and you're not
gonna do that in this month that you're trying to
drop the album, like be cool and gracious with yourself,
make the sound that how you want to sound it,
and you're gonna learn. And I feel like it was
kind of like that thing, right, you know how sometimes

(58:30):
you ask your parents for help with something and like
they're teaching you. But then gradually they they take they
foot off the you know, they like they they let
they they let go their hand where to Jake Hale
and before you look back and they all the way
back there. That's how it felt with El Summers, I
feel like, and maybe that was unintentional from him, but
it was like it allowed me to realize, oh, the

(58:52):
sound that I want is gonna be my sound. Like
it's not done till I say it's done. And if
I I feel like it's done, we're gonna move on
to the next thing. And I learned that like to
give myself that that authority, but also that grace of
just like Okay, Dez, like you know, play with this stuff,
see if you like it. That's a lot of what

(59:13):
it is, and it is tedious, Like that's what I
heard somebody say when I was YouTube and mad tatorials,
they were like the thing about mixing and mastering, it's
not just throw this up however many hurts.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
It's literally like tweak tweak, tweak, tweak, tweak, tweak tweak.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Bow. Yeah, it's not move move move move move. It's
like it's it's very little things. And that's what was
messing with me. And then I finally sat back and
I'm like, Elseemer's was right. I think like he kind
of was showing me, like, Dez, you're gonna learn this
through experience. You might not really learn how to mix
and master till you thirty five, right, we twenty seven,

(59:54):
So I might not really be in a comfortable place
till I'm thirty five. And it's open gen four like,
you know, so I had to get comfortable with that.
But it's been cool, like I said, it's been and
it's been nice to just do it on my own time,
you know, and just be like, look, when I want
to cook something up, I can cook something up. Yeah.
Never heard to learn a new skills, especially like in rap.

(01:00:15):
You know, you always think like it's just writing recording.
Oh yeah, I feel like it kind of opened that
door for you as well, like to get a little
bit more involved of like crafting songs the way that
you want to sound. And I think in ways it's evident,
as in the way that you even include the little
snippets like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
In like Mike, oh yeah, things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
And that's like the feeling too, like you you alluded
to it earlier, man, like I gotta tap into that
feel like if I can make you feel like how
I feel, I did my job. Yeah, there it is there.
It is so you funny you bring up Jake Hole
and let go My Hand because that perfectly perfectly leads
into behind the scenes, ah does like the related ability

(01:00:56):
like I literally wrote like let go my hand and
the come up vibes. There's like me and the thing
that got me to de is like how calm this
song is, you know, des like that. That's where like
kind of the let go of My hand came in,
Like does I feel like you really kind of had
that tone of like I'm just talking, you know, like

(01:01:17):
let's kind of slowed down a little bit, and you
know it's almost like like the an R and B
portion of of the project, Like there's you know, like
or that when you go see somebody in concert, you know,
they dim the lights a little bit, play that more
intimate song like that really gets people in.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
They feels I feel like this one is kind of
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Yeah, for sure, for sure. So yeah, man, I think
like again, it's it's the moments of reflection and seeing
yourself and others like that, self evaluation and that and
sometimes when the comparison kicks in. Oh, you know, I
know about that. He the line one line that I
wanted to point out Dez is uh so the first

(01:01:59):
one is that's the hard truth of life. Everybody got
a dream, like mister King, but his fruition ain't the
song we get to sing the feeling of like sometimes
when reality hits and our dreams feel like they slipping
and fading away. Yes, so can you talk a little
bit about the crafting of of that line and and

(01:02:22):
just the idea of you know, because it makes me
think of the title like behind the scenes, Like the
thing that I really took away from is like you
you at a certain point, like in life, you start
to try to figure out what's real, Like you know,
that's where like I feel like we're growing up happens.
Usually it is like when you really you seeing stuff

(01:02:45):
and it's like hold up, like we all like in
this movie, like everybody talks about main character energy and
it's like we all up in here, but hold up,
like who's filming? Like once you kind of realize this
is a film, like like who's really being real? Like
what why do we not talk about certain things?

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Why?

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
If I'm the main character? That must mean I got
a little bit more controlled than I think I do.
There's that I'm a little bit more involved than I
think I am. If we all in main character energy,
that means I'm doing my movie that while they're doing theirs,
and we're all in the same movie right at the
same time at the same time. None of this is
really really because we we out here like you know

(01:03:29):
sometimes like this fake smiles, interactions like the way you
know what I'm saying, it's like we do things and
we just brushed by stuff. How are you Desmond? I'm great?
How are you, Vaughn? And it's like you didn't tell
me what you was really going through? Like you know
what I'm saying. It's like a lot of that. There's
a lot of that in life. It is, you know,
so but Yeah, man, talk about that line, and it's

(01:03:51):
kind of the idea that you had put into behind
the scenes. Yeah, so you said a lot of things
that are true. Again, you know me very well, Vaughn.
It's yeah. This I almost called this the behind the
scenes interlude because that's what it felt like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
I kind of see that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
And that's why it's the fourth song, because I wanted
it to be a turning point before one on one,
which is back to a little bit more hopeful, practice
is a little bit more positive, and then the love
of the game ends how it ends. So I wanted
it to be a turning point. And again what I
was saying earlier, I wanted to show that I could
wrap on a more modern beat. Again that that Kevin Durant,

(01:04:28):
that Stanley Kevin Durant joint is the instrumental scare money.
So again this the hoop connection, right, Ktie wrapped on it,
so I'm gonna rap on it. Yeah. But again you're right,
that song has as very little to do with basketball.
I didn't if I I barely said anything basketball related
on there, if at all. And yes, so when I
said that that, you're exactly right. It was the realization

(01:04:49):
devon of like, dang, is this what growing up is
like when you're young? And then you know how it
is with us growing up where we grew up, like
you saw a lot of that, like like mom always
told us, you do see a lot of people settle.
It's not bad, but it is something where again, if
you're a dreamer, if you have big, big goals for yourself,

(01:05:11):
it can it can be interesting to grow up around,
especially like when you come up through life just natural
as a child, like is the rose colored glasses the
right term? Or like I think like you see things
so like everything is so like innocent, yeah, entertainable yea,

(01:05:32):
like like nothing can stop me, but at certain points
like that kind of changes, like you know, like real
life hits and it's not that those things are impossible,
but you know, you get I feel like there are
moments in life where you just get hit at certain points,
like you kind of get like like dang, like this

(01:05:56):
is what they meant, you know, like this is what
it's really like. And I feel like there's like that
behind the scenes, does that so well, like you know,
kind of addressing those subtle parts of life like yeah, man,
it's it's because again That's why I said what I
said afterwards, right like like the girl that dreamt of
wedding bills and shot a signing. That was my favorite

(01:06:17):
portion right there, Man, I'm like thirty five and question
and if you will ever get a ring or the
homie with a vision of the stage, the crowd Chance's name.
But that nine to five got them feeling changed.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
It's what you just said.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
You only have that endurance so long that That's another
tough thing about dreaming. It don't last, it don't, it don't.
There are times it don't last as long as you
want it to. Yeah, and then you start running in
the doubting, the questioning, like because because that Like so
when I wrote behind the scenes, I think it was
a little bit. I think it was a few days
after that conversation we had, yeah, and this was like

(01:06:48):
heavy on me. Yeah, and and it got again. That
was another reason why I knew I was supposed to
do open gym, because you know, it was funny, like
my brain, It wasn't I need to go to therapy.
It wasn't necessarily like I need to talk to somebody.
Because we did talk, right, like we talked to each other.
We talked to mom what have you. But it was
like I just felt that strong pool like nah, like

(01:07:09):
my brain is is imagining it in bars. I gotta
write songs. So when you said that, that's exactly what
it was. I was in that vibe of just like
I'm gonna just make this like mellow, but I'm gonna
say I'm gonna let everything out and like you said,
behind the scenes, Ima, I'm gonna take you to a
place where we don't always Hey, how you doing. You know,
it's the part that I'm not showing you so like

(01:07:31):
on that on with those lines specifically, like you said,
Von and you know, like you get to know people
and even in you know us, we always been observed,
so you just see things. Yea. You know I didn't
have co workers, I didn't have customers, and I'm like, oh,
you know, like like even in our own life, like
oh wow, Like it's why you want to pay pay

(01:07:52):
it forward to your parents so much.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
I saw my mom like this ain't what she had
in mind.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
It was a little bit with she had in mind,
but it wasn't fully what she had in mind. And
you got to drop everything to take care of your kids. Yeah,
and like we said, growing up where we grow up, like,
oh shoot, a lot of these people, it's just it
didn't happen. They for a lot of people, that's how
it goes. You You meet somebody, you get you have kids,

(01:08:22):
and that changes everything because you got to provide for
the child. You can't really you got to put yourself
on a back seat. You see people why they're yes, yes,
Like you said, you get away from the rose colored
glasses and you see things clear. Like I said, it's
a lot of I know, it's a lot of women
out here again, especially on social media, like a lot
of women, you know, they they dream of getting married,

(01:08:43):
they want to be married. And again let's not let's
not sugarcoat. I think there's a lot of men out
there too, Like you know, I'm not gonna sit here
like I don't want to be, but you know, you
you you look at that and it's like, oh shoot,
like sometimes it just don't happen for people, and like
that's all that's like I can feel that right now,
just saying it, like I hate how that feels in

(01:09:04):
my gut. Again as somebody who's a dreamer and has
always wanted more out of life, having that reality hit
sometimes is hard, So, like I said, sometimes that's what
it is. So that's basically when I said that, it's
like kind of me talking to God, like, oh, so
is this how it go? Dreams don't come true? Alan
Iverson on his Hall of Fame speech said show me

(01:09:24):
the fool who said dreams don't come true? Or no
it was it might have been his Jersey retirement speech.
He said, show me the food that says dreams come true,
because they do. Like that's kind of how he ended
his thing. I think, you know, Alan Iverson is everything
to us. But then it's like when I'm back at
the crib, all that's around me is people that didn't Yeah,

(01:09:45):
so you just like dang yeah. And then it's it's
like the importance to like, you know, you really got
to take care of yourself behind the scenes as well.
You know that, Yeah, if you in front of this
camera for so long, you know, and I feel like
being able to kind of protect yourself from some of
that influence because they can really wit rage war in

(01:10:07):
your in your mind. So I think like that that's
the thing that this track does this and it made
me think too, Dez, so how did that come about,
like you know you said you using the instrumental from
the the Kevin Durant Trap Scared Money, Like we know
that was and that that beat, but it's such a
contrast from what you're talking about. Yeah, you know, like

(01:10:30):
how did that? How did that come together? Well? Yeah,
cause it's it's I think it's it's all what we
were saying, like the music will lead you, you know.
So like when when Kevin Durant rapp, like I thought
his verse was really honest, you know, like like people
and again you could tell people who don't be Again,
that's why Hit to the Games exist because when that
song dropped, so many people were like.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Why he say he Randy Moss?

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Why he say he Jason Mask, Like I'm like, listen
to what he's saying in his hoop world.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
I'm Freddy Jason. I'm sitting next to greatness.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
What do you say? Like, I'm next to greatness but
like not being complacent.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
Something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
And I'm like, like he compared himself to Randy Morris
because if you remember when Randy Mark, I feel like
Randy Moss was he was on the Raiders. Man, they
love to hate us, right, they loved it. They be
on Katie tail every morning on Twitter. Yeah, Randy Moss
like that was that Raiders. That one year he was
with the Raiders was a bad time.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Media was against him.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
He his thing showed up on my TikTok the other
day of like when they do how they used to
do the introsh marshall, He looked so dejected in his
marshall like you know, so like again Katie is saying
like yo, like I understand that because everybody be on
my thing for a decision I made almost ten years ago. Yeah, now,

(01:11:49):
so it's I thought that, Like Katie was really empty
in the clip in his own way though, So I
was like, let me do that. That's all I thought
about when I heard that beat. It makes you just
meditate on it. So I was like, when I had
all these thoughts in my head, they was just spilling out. Well,
I love that man. So then after after that is
one on one, but then we get to practice.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
We talking about practice.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Not a stinking game. And Bro, I think this is
one of the most if not the most memorable song
on this EP does I will tell you, Bro, I
was in the shower this morning singing it, and I
still don't have the words piece together yet. I'm gonna
get there, I know, but I know I know the

(01:12:38):
way that song like and it's like obvious and easy
as your brother, And like I wonder, like as more
people get to hear it, I wonder like how how
they'll feel and I imagine it might be similar. But
does the way that lights me up? Bro? That that
song like does that is a song like you you

(01:13:01):
crafted that like like in a way it's it's got
like anything everything you want in a song like that,
Like it's repeatable, memorable, like like easy, easy to remember. Like,
so I really want to get into this about about
that aspect that's like so for one, you know, it's

(01:13:23):
something that anybody can take into their life, like you
know that three dribbles, two shots, one breath. Yeah, three dribbles,
two shots, one breath, like and the way you enunciate
those with the double vocals again another thing you was
working on, like through the process of crafting songs and
making this project. Yeah, you know, I think like there's

(01:13:46):
like this song has all of that, like you can
tell des like again, going back to what we were
talking about earlier, when you think back to the past,
like when you started rapping four bar Fridays, all that
mix mixing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
Mastering has led to a song like this day.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
And like I love this for you in that sense,
you know, DA's like you craft it a joint. I
appreciate you. I appreciate you like like you know they
they say the Blank's gonna love this. I think everybody
love Do you know what I'm saying? Everybody gonna love this.
So there's there's a lot we could say this, but
I guess for a first question, why why open with

(01:14:26):
the chorus?

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
Why open this song with the chorus.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Oh, that's kind of how the beat went, you know.
Shout out Jonny Mitchell, shout out Jane and Jackson, shout
out Jimmy James, Terry Lewis, shout out Asterik j Dilla.
I know there's controversy whether or not they actually got
that from him or whatnot, who had it first, But
as I say, I show love to both. Yeah, I
mean that's just that's kind of I feel like that's
what the beat called for, just for which again, never

(01:14:52):
thought of that on anything else, you know, with like Mike,
it was a the audio clip right with one on
one it was at the end of the song. With
with this one, it was like, oh, let me write
a hook. So now that's honestly, you know, it's not
some flashy answer with that von. I just think that's
that's what the beast, what it called for. Yeah, what
it called for? So one. Uh so we got three
verses here we do we did.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
I'm telling there this is a song.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Like this is a song, bro so so one in
the first verse. Yeah, life is like the hardwood, not
every shot switch a thousand makes. But dang, still thinking
about the miss I feel like this is those moments
where sometimes that's all we can remember is the negative, right,

(01:15:37):
Like you know I did this, I went through that,
it went great, but man, like I'm still thinking about
when I missed this line up where I did this wrong?
Like I feel like it's one of them points, Like
you know, there there are rough moments too within the practice.
That's why it's called practice, you know, like we as
you said this, I love what you said earlier about Kobe,

(01:15:59):
what he said about the Jim, Like when you're there
by yourself, it is for everything. Yeah, it is for everything.
Talk about that line like that first verse, and maybe
if you want to go through the next versus two deaths,
like just the the general structure, okay of what because
I know, you know, they know you're really big on
the build up. You know that third verse has to
pack a punch. So talk about that structure with this

(01:16:21):
song and what you were trying to achieve.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Yeah, so you you nailed it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Vault like the idea of being your home worst critic,
right like and again I know you notice well vault
like again like you can't get a twisted Like I've
you know, as your brother, Like I've seen you on
the other end of that, right, like we talked obviously
we're talking about this right now, but I've been there
for you when you were going through it. And man,
so like you know, it's something everybody relates to, you
know for sure. And that's like like I said, it

(01:16:47):
was kind of like how can I how can I
incorporate the basketball practice and so like again the life connections, right,
So again that's something everybody can relate to. Whether if
you're a hooper, you're obviously gonna be like, yeah, I
do the same thing. I made eight hundred the other day,
but I was still thinking about the one that went
in and out right, but for somebody else, it's like, man,
like I applied to all these jobs, but like and

(01:17:10):
or maybe I got a good job right now, but
for some reason, I'm thinking about the free time that
I had with the other job that I had. And
I love this job, but I missed the free time
I had with that job. Like no matter how you
you have it, right, it's it's it's it's that idea.
We're always thinking about something, we always trying to change something.
And that first verse, it's so funny because I don't
like that first verse as much. It just fit, Like

(01:17:32):
I feel like the lines were kind of random, if
I'm being honest, Like right after that, you know, but
even with them late nights, thinking I might quit, this
dog got more fight up than him than Mike Vick.
Like soon that's gonna be like how they say about
Jimmy Hoffa, Like like it's just gonna like Mike Vick
and dog fighting bars are gonna be like in ten years,
are probably gonna be like, yeah, we don't say that anymore, right, So,

(01:17:53):
like there were lines like even after that, like awesome,
Jokic ain't really focused on being noticed, Like if you
not tapped in it, NBA, you don't. You won't get
that line right because nicolea Yokic be out of it,
like we swear, he just want to go home and
play with his horses, like he don't care about being
a champion or nothing like. So that was me kind
of like poking fun at that. Yeah, well but I
think it. I think it still fits with with the

(01:18:15):
idea des and and what the what you were doing
with this song because you're still rapping, you know what
I'm saying. There's still that place just like in open gym,
there's still that place to you know, practice your reverse layups,
you know, to dude some of the crazy stuff that
might happen in the game unexpectedly, like to be ready
for those moments. I feel like that that's kind of
what you're doing here, Dez. I think it fits again

(01:18:37):
with practice, you know. De's like, not everything has to
be structured the okay? You right? So you're right. I
like the way you do. You know, it builds up
like you know, and think about it when you're in
the gym sometimes also your mind is just going. Your
mind is just going, your thinking about everything, you know,
similar to what we was talking about when you're laying
in the bed. I feel like the same thing can
happen when you're just kind of in your in your zone.

(01:18:59):
You write sometimes it was like that you're right, you're right.
But I think it's again to the point I'll be
in my worst critic. I was like, I could have
delivered better, but no, you're right. It's good Bill practice, yeah,
practice to get out of that that that that way,
you are right, you are right. Yeah. So it's so
even on the second verse, right, I don't know if

(01:19:19):
you had a yeah, I was just good. You want
to get the fans watching, Okay, Okay, okay, we'll get
we'll get to that, okay. Yeah. So second verse. So,
so the first verse is a little more dreamy. I
would say, second verse is a little bit more like, Okay,
I got my sweat in. Yeah, if you're like, okay,

(01:19:41):
I'm sweating a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
So.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
And the first the very first thing I say when
it comes to suicides, that often be a line that
I don't even want to touch. Now, if you hoop
what Hooper likes, suicides, it tests your conditioning, right, and
your endurance, your mental.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
Strength, like everything to keep going.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
Everything you made sure you ate that day, because if
you run in suicide, you is not gonna last. Now, Vaughn,
But again, what does it also do? Right? And I
think especially like as human beings, right, and I think
as men, the coaches always stress that right because it
it becomes about integrity. Are you gonna be lazy and

(01:20:22):
just not give your best effort barely touch the line
just because you focused on finishing the drill? Or are
you gonna try to get it right? Are you gonna
bend use that extra energy to bend down and touch
that line and run to the next one and touch
that line? Some people, you know, that's the reality you're hooping.
Some of these dudes do not want to or I
shouldn't just say that. Players, Some of these players, you know,

(01:20:45):
whether it's guys or girls, don't want to touch that line.
You see it, You see it. Some people aren't enough,
like they just don't have it in them that they
would rather just take the easy way out. So but
that's a double entendre because like I said, when it
comes to suicide, I'd often be aligned that I don't
even want to touch. So it's like suicide like ideation.

(01:21:07):
But now I want to make it clear I've never
had that. I don't I don't struggle with that. But
my thing, like we've talked before, the thing is you,
I think you do have those moments of why am
I here? And so that's why I go on to
say when it comes to suicides that often be aligned
that I don't even want to touch. The challenge that
I face just prepares me for the clutch, right, spending

(01:21:29):
that extra energy, what is it going to be? Like,
I need to do this drill with integrity because when
I'm sweating and I'm tired, and we going in overtime
and the game is tied, I need to be ready
to form. Yes, So the challenge that I faced just
prepares me for the clutch. I'm often asking coach, what's
my purpose in the game? So, given what I just said,
and then you think about the faith. Like I was

(01:21:51):
just telling you the other day, the thing about hip
hop word choice is very important. So I knew I
had to say what I'm saying, but still keep the
basketball terminology. Yeah, right, So it's like I'm often asking coach,
what's my purpose in the game. Recruited early, was it
all for the fame? A game inside a game Star player,

(01:22:11):
But inside feeling, I'm kind of lame. What I'm really
saying is recruited early. Like I said, we were born premature.
We were born early, We came earlier than expected. Was
it all for the fame? A game inside the game.
So it's like sometimes you question that and you like, Okay, God,

(01:22:32):
you brought me here early. You brought me and my
brother here early. Did you just do that so mom
can have a cool story to tell a Thanksgiving Is
that's just some cool story that I can tell to people,
And that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
If it is, that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
That's a reflection of your grace and your love for
our mom and for us and everybody. Right. But it's
also like sometimes I think that, like you said, when
it's late at night and I'm looking and I'm like,
but nah, why are we here?

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Yeah, like because we came early.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
We came early, And that's not it's like it's not
putting on a pedestal, right, Like, yeah, you know, birth
is a blessing regardless, but it's like that that it
holds extra weight, Yes, that detail of the timing of things,
because yep, we all could talk about that too. A
whole nother podcast, like the timing, like the way timing
plays into our lives as well. You know sometimes like

(01:23:26):
this preparation needs opportunity, but like there's still time involved
in that, Like there's time to prepare and then there's
time once it comes, and then there's times when you
go through it. You know what I'm saying, like and
and time is you know, man made is a social construct.
But like you know what I'm saying, like that is

(01:23:46):
a valid aspect of the journey. Yeah yeah, so uh
and then I think that leads to what you were
about to bring up as uh in the next lines. Yeah,
so I uh. That was another one that stuck out
to me fans watching, Oh yeah, believe in me, like
Christ must believe in myself or I'm paying the price
the price of fame? Is that?

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
What is that?

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
What this is? Because it made me think of that,
like the price of fame, recognition, accolades, you know what
I'm saying, Like they say, if you don't believe in yourself,
nobody else will. Yeah, and it's like, if you don't
believe in yourself, you know you you you think about
that when they say like it takes a village if
I don't believe in myself. I turn around, there's no

(01:24:29):
village behind me. It's just me, you know. Like so
it's like, you know, we we want these things to
happen for ourselves, our families, our communities, each other.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
But at what cause?

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
Like that that's kind of what this line made me think.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
Dude, I don't know if I thought of it like that.
I think, is that what I'm saying? You know what
I mean? It's like yes, because I said it. I
said it because of rhyme, But I think that is
what I was trying to save all Like yeah, like
I'm must believe in myself, like cause if I don't,
who will?

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
Because I guess regrets as well.

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
Bro, you nail, you nail that. I don't have nothing
to say, like you're right, like and I played on
that in one on one too. Fans watching When I
say fans watching across this project, I see my family,
I see my friends, I see it's not random people,
and sometimes it is, but I always say that fans
watching my community watching, right, if if one of us

(01:25:28):
were to blow up tomorrow, you know, they gonna know,
like our hometown gon't know, like oh shoot, you know
so yeah, like folks watching they believe in me like
Christ must believe in myself. You nailed it on I
gotta believe in myself is getting to the climax of
before we get into that third verse. And I think too,
des you know, this is something we've talked about privately

(01:25:49):
as well. It's like that feeling of you know, like
when your people believe in you so much and then
but like sometimes you don't even see it yourself, and
then you start asking yourself why, like why do they?
Why do what are they seeing me that I'm not saying?
Like what am I missing here? Yeah? It may just

(01:26:11):
thinking about that last night again too, where I'm just like,
you know, you you do question that vat like I
see it in my teacher's eyes growing up, when they
believe what they're saying. They always told if they didn't
tell one of us, they told my mom, oh they're
gonna be great. Now I'm older and it's like, how
do you know? How did how did how could you

(01:26:31):
be social? Yeah? You know, like I said, like, God
bless my my nineteen family. Even with them, sometimes I
get a little self conscious that you will, like you know,
they they it warms my heart that they say good
things about me, you know, And and I think it's
what Jay Cole said right like it might have been
that Angie Martinez interview, but he said he said, like

(01:26:54):
sometimes you do, or maybe it was his Inevitable series,
but he said, like sometimes you do. You do care
about what people think. You do want yourself to be
perceived as somebody that's you know, silent in society, a
real one. Whoever, wherever you're from, it's gonna be a
different term because there's always that what you're aspiring to be,
you know, like I'm not aspiring to be wet and
treat people like crap.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
You know what I'm saying like you know, like you know,
so there, I get.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
You this, Like there is that too, like like I'm
I'm not just trying to be out here like messing up.
I'm I'm trying to be the best person I can be, Yeah,
and paying forward like you know, so, yeah, I think
you're you bring a great you bring up a great
point on because I do think about that. I I
love that part about that first yeah, and then verse three.

(01:27:42):
You got anything about verse three or do you want
me to straight up? I'm gonna let you take it.
You let you take it. I want to tell you.
Homie pulled me to the side, asking if I found
my why the trophies, the money or maybe looking fly.
I want to change my family life shine forever like
the five pay it forward to my city. Hope my

(01:28:04):
effort pleases Jesus, inspire you and keep them growing like
the trees is enjoy the time we got in Hope
of freezes. That is one of my favorite lines, favorite
bars in the entire eped Like there are big steps
and like big things that need to happen in order,
you know, for all that to come to fruition. And

(01:28:28):
again like we brought up there like ultimately, this is
why we practice like life is a practice, you know,
like we're like I was thinking about it this morning.
Days like they say, like you know, we all get
one go at this thing, and we're all going through.

Speaker 2 (01:28:42):
This for the first time.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
No matter if you are eighty six or you are sixteen,
we are all going through this for the first time.
So that that's the way that you kind of like
end things there dead I feel like an ultimately like
and it speaks to who you are. There's like at
the end of the day. This is all I'm trying
to do, you know, Yeah, yeah, that's that's exactly how

(01:29:06):
I how I wrote it. Von It was like and
I thought of that part. I don't I can't think
of a specific song at the moment, but artists sometimes
do that thing. And I think DMX has done it.
I think, I want to say pop has done it,
and Jake Cole has done it for sure. But they
do this thing where sometimes when they play with different

(01:29:26):
if they introduce, if they subtly introduce another voice or
another character, they'll change the way it sounds vocally. And
I know I could have did that at that part.
I just didn't want to touch it. But that's essentially
what that was, Like I said, like, I'm knee deep
in practice now. Like I said, I start the verse
sweating through my T shirt and a brother Fi hurt
signs at the work ain't gonna revert like and then

(01:29:49):
I'm battling with those things, right, And so I'm saying, like, Homie,
whether that's you, a teammate, whoever, Homie pulled me to this,
like you see me struggling as I'm oh, like even
the little thing, like we talked about this before when
I said, like, thought progression came in waves, but it's
only by the ounce. Right, you want these quantum leaps,
but the reality it's small steps. Maybe it's small steps

(01:30:11):
break by break. Thought progression came in waves, but it's
only by the ounce or this repetition, when is the
success gonna amount? Or like and even when I said,
like how I'm cooking in the scrimmage, but I'm cold
when it counts, let's be honest, that will make these
girls want to pounce, like like like we said, it's
like that Jake hole kind of maintaining the boyhood aspect
of kind of reaching younger listeners, like who are gonna understand?

(01:30:33):
Like you know, middle school, high school, Like for some reason,
we just do that thing where we think girls are
going to be impressed if we're good at that athletics.
Most of the time they don't really care. It's more
like the ambition that you show, not necessarily literally because
you made a shot from the half, like you know
what I mean, but like just including all aspects of
growing up playing this game. You know, you think about
all these things. And so when I when I when

(01:30:54):
I get to that part where I say, you know
I'm going through all that. So the homies like, yo,
you know, have you found your why? I see you struggling,
And it's even me, Like I asked myself, like that
is what you're doing it for? And it's like, okay, Well,
you know, I do want to change my family life.
You know, I want my work to Whatever I'm doing,
I wanted to last, you know, I don't want it
to be this fickle thing. The you know, is it

(01:31:16):
the trophies, the money or maybe looking fly sometimes it is,
you know, but a lot of the time it ain't.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
It's it's the basic things, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
You know, hope my.

Speaker 2 (01:31:24):
Effort pleases Jesus.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
I think that obviously, if you're of the faith, that's
that's what we all want, you know, inspire youth, keep
them growing like the trees is, you know, enjoy the
time we got in hope of free like this is.
I'm a simple man, Like I don't need a yacht,
Like I don't need I don't need the I don't
need the crazy house even that, like you get older,
like I don't need no fat mansion, nice little one

(01:31:47):
is cool. I don't need no I don't need all
the acres like, what am I gonna do with all
that grass? Because knowing me, I'm gonna just make a
football feel and even then I'm gonna just be like, well,
whoofty do, Like what's the thing everybody's saying whoofty do?
But yeah, yeah, Von, you nailed it though, Bro, That's
that's what that. I do like that part in the
song because it it further establishes some of.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
The things that I'm going through.

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
It kind of reinfirms like just keep working, focus on
your why, focus on what you can, and you know
it's gonna take care of yourself. Bro. And then one
another thing I just want to mention too is the
you know, I know you told me when when you
first played it for me, the inspiration from respiration, you know,

(01:32:31):
one of your, if not your favorite. So then, as
you know, again, I wanted to get into into that,
you know, just that inspiration and you might have answered
this earlier, but like, you know, why why God till
it's gone?

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
What was about it that we're it just sprung that
way and then talk about respiration?

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
So yes, I appreciate you bringing that up because we
definitely should have talked about that first. But yes, so
if you know me, you know, if you listen to
the show, you you know Respiration black Star feature in
Common favorite hip hop hip hop song of all time,
So much of a favorite I can't get the words out,
that's how much I like it. Right, this dude has
heard me listen to this over and over again without

(01:33:12):
getting tired. And it's just the poetry. There's three brothers
talking about where they're from and how they see it
through their optics. Right, obviously most Death and Tyler Kali
are talking about Brooklyn. They talking about New York. Common
talks about it from Chicago's point of view. Right, what
are the things that make it hard to breathe? How
can I rest if this is my environment? So but

(01:33:35):
I just but but all that aside, just how it's
structured so much on my mind that it can reclimb
blasting holes in the night till she bless sun shine
breathing and hell vapors from bright stars that Shane breathe out.
We smoke with trace. So I was like, I know,
I want to do that, and I can play on
respiration because I take a breath.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
I like to take a breath.

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
I like to take after that's literally my free throw team,
which I got from Kobe. I take three dribbles. You
kind of just let yourself relax, let it fly, and
I'm like, that should be the hook. And when I practice,
I like to practice free throws. Some of these guards
don't like to practice free throws. No more practice your
free throws. You do not want to be fifty forty

(01:34:17):
sixty seven. You want to be fifty forty ninety. Okay,
So it's but it was that barn. It was when
I was thinking of it, it was like, okay, what
is my routine? Three dribbles, chill, homy, we ain't about
to crush, right, So I'm taking you step by step.
It's like literally what goes through my mind. And again
in life, this could be before a big presentation, This

(01:34:40):
could be before giving birth, Lord have mercy. This could
be basketball. Three dribbles, chill homey, we ain't about to crush.
Seize the moment. Yeah, don't don't let yourself get to
that point, right. Two shots. It's time to make these
inner voices hush. Just two shots, yup, it's just two shots.
I'm not even going to the negative aspect. One breath, breath, relax, respiration, relaxed. Kid,

(01:35:06):
ain't no need to rush, especially knowing me right, don't
rush your routine, shoot your shot. But also me in
life like I'm I'm a very People that know me
know I'm very passionate. I'm very go get them. And
when I want something, I want it and a lot
of times I want it fast. And I getting older,
I have to really something that I really want to
do in my life is understand like it's time. It's

(01:35:28):
okay to be at a good pace. You don't have
to rush towards things. So that's where that that hook
came from. But with instrumental again, the last two instrumentals
on the song were or Excuse Me on the album
is where I'm like, Yo, these are some really revered
beats in hip hop, in music. I gotta do my thing.

(01:35:51):
I got to do this justice and you and and
this is no slight on you, des but you you
don't always dip your.

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):
Toe in that water.

Speaker 1 (01:35:59):
Yeah, I've asked you about that before, and there's like
I feel like the reasoning would always kind of be
the same. It's like, oh, but like Bond, I would
love to but these are some serious beats. You cannot
play around, and I respect you every time.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
I'm like, I get it. I get it is what
I've been telling you. That's funny. That's what that is
what I'm telling you.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
So it's funny that like that, And I think, like,
when you think about it, they are they are two beats,
does that. I feel like they're they're safe. You know,
it's cool, like okay for you to do that, Like
you were probably thinking, like, you know what, these ones
might not be bad. I ain't ready for these ones yet. Yeah,
but this one, but you know, I try these ones.
At the end of the day. It was still that
hip hopping me though, like I gotta I gotta kill

(01:36:42):
it and thankfully practicable. That could not have went better
than I could ever think. Like that to me, I
feel like that's gonna be like, like you said, that's
that's the song. I feel like I already know and
a lot of the I'm already knowing. People gonna be like,
you should have did that as a single, you should
do well. Yeah, brother, if I knew I was gonna
make that, I will, But you know, it is, it
is what it is. I think I like it better

(01:37:04):
as a you know, if you listen to the album.
You're gonna find out last every about every album does that? Man,
Just like when Lady God Got dropped Mayhem, they was
doing that. They're still doing that, like she should have
did this to her? Why is it the label making
this the single? You know? So I feel this, but
I love that, like you said, and as like to

(01:37:26):
the point as like I was singing about that again
in the shower this morning, like just the idea that's
like I feel like that's a great tray and something
I'm gonna remember like when I need to breathe, like
three dribbles, like let me get in my practice. You
know there's like so I love it and I can't
like I'm telling you this, I cannot wait for people
to really to digest this whole project. But like that

(01:37:49):
song does, I feel like that's really gonna do some
do you know? God willing? Bro God willing? I think,
And just last thing I'll say about it again, I
think it was like what we always why not got
Tills Gone? Like we we grew up with VH one
soul and like I always picture myself like if I
was rapping back then, Like I just feel like I

(01:38:10):
mean there's part of me that's in that that most
death Tyler quality, you know, DJ high tech like common.
I would have been hanging out with them dudes every day.
And we gonna make some soulful songs. We gonna make
some happy songs. We gonna make some sad songs, but
we gonna spit, we gonna sing, we gonna just whatever
we feeling. We're gonna do it. Yeah, you know, but

(01:38:32):
then there's all you know, there is that part of me.
I like that that J Cole sometimes the inner jay
Z at least, so I think like I like to
bring out I like the rap City, I like the
early two thousands confidence Bravado. I'd be wanting to do
stuff like that. But I do feel like at my
genesis it is songs like this. So this allowed me
like where I said, okay again, a lot of my

(01:38:52):
songs up to this point were one verse or or
or two verses, you know, shorter songs. So I'm saying
like again, if anybody gets a twisted I can do this,
and even showing myself, does you does this tap into it?
We're gonna do. We're gonna bring back three verses. We're
gonna bring back what music was to us. You you

(01:39:13):
make three verses, you make a hook, you you you,
you make the versus connect. It don't gotta be flashy,
but you put the time in and you make it work,
because that's the standard we grew up with. Back to
the fundamental, back to the places for going back to
the fundamentals, you study the greats.

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
And become great.

Speaker 1 (01:39:35):
Let's go on, Yes, sir, it is so obviously that
leads into the final track of the EP, which is
a is another like Powerhouse. I appreciate that, man, the
love of the game, the love of the game. I
was not ready for what this track was doing. I

(01:39:56):
tell you, I was not ready. I could have been
ready for anything else, and I was not ready for
And so as you said again, another iconic instrument the
Hard Part five by by the one and only Kendrick Lamar,
the Great Kendrick Lamar, Sir, dees O g sample Marvin Gayes.

Speaker 2 (01:40:16):
Oh yes, but that is.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Like it is because I listened to it last night
again the instrumental before, to get it back in my
head to prepare for today. Okay, and Dez, I'm gonna
tell you, bro, you get that, dude, and you get
the like the put them drums called man uh congos

(01:40:39):
Jane Jane Jambo, Yeah right, yeah, you on it, Jim
Bay drums Jim but yeah something No, that's the right, right, Yeah,
clearly we gotta go back to the world music.

Speaker 2 (01:40:57):
But but you you.

Speaker 1 (01:40:58):
Get those those the minute that says it does. The
first voice we hear is Kevin Garnett. Yeah, Dees, I
love that. It was.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
I thought poetry slam.

Speaker 1 (01:41:10):
Let's let's go give it, give it to give it
to and it was that. But DESI then once you
come in and start kind of start rapping, des that
first verse, you get de eminem eight mile Rabit Run.
I'm like, my boy, my boy that song in a minute.

(01:41:31):
My boy Des is on that stinking bus with his
nose in the headphones said the song the way that
this song does, like it just started something in me
from the jump and it was steady, it kept going,
you know, Dez. But that was the initial vibe and

(01:41:54):
so I one thing that I literally made a stink
face after the first first that first verse and then
when Alan iverson coch yeah does I literally I almost
had to posit it. I was like, this boy does
the way that like he is crafting this song right now, Like,

(01:42:15):
so anyway to actually get into this, there's like, so,
for one, I want to ask you talk about that
the inclusion of kg Alan and Kobe Bryant who gotten
and served as hook slashes bridges yes to each verse and.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
The conclusion of the track.

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
But so I really want to know about how that
this all came about.

Speaker 2 (01:42:38):
There was like the floor is yours to talk about
the Love of the Game.

Speaker 1 (01:42:41):
Well, first off, on, I appreciate you so much because
fum fact, if I'm being one hundred percent honest with you, you all,
the Love of the Game is probably the track that
I was most insecure about. Wow, of all the stuff
that I'm talking about on the album, just off how
it sounded. Yeah, I knew that it had potential, but
I felt like I could have rapped it better. I

(01:43:03):
felt like I was trying too hard to be passionate.
I felt like I was trying to art. Did it
sound like Kendrick right? So so, but it was one
of those things like training myself, release it anyway, release
it you came up with it, release it anyway. Yeah,
and so yeah, Vaughn so fun fact, so right, this
is what I didn't tell you last night because I
knew he was gonna do this today.

Speaker 2 (01:43:23):
Okay, what.

Speaker 1 (01:43:25):
I was listening to the original Marvin Gaye I Want
You track we had on the TV. It might have
been that day we cleaned the witch you McCall in
our room and my bad, my arms front of the camera.
But it might have been that day earlier that day
before we started, I was listening to that and it
was dope. I was listening to like Stevie Wonder that
day and that one. Okay, I was listening to that,

(01:43:47):
and then I was like, you know, I knew, I
already knew Harp Part five, but like I wasn't thinking
of it before we went to bed that day. Sometimes
before bed we just have it on the hip hop channel. Yeah,
and that was the last song. That was the last
video they show before we went to this that day. Yes,
And I could tell so because I was doing the
same thing. I you like, it's the funny thing about art,

(01:44:09):
and it's such a bad thing how we're always so
attached to these stinking things right here. But for audio listeners,
I held on my phone, but like seeing Kendricks video again, it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
Piqued my attention. I wasn't on my phone.

Speaker 1 (01:44:21):
I looked at you and you were doing the exact
same yeah, And I was like, because I never watched it,
and I think probably except the day that came out,
because that was a big deal because it was all
over face. Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:37):
At the time.

Speaker 1 (01:44:38):
Now it's a I but back then it was fake.
But yeah, so that was fresh in my head. So
duvant I kid you not. It's like what they say,
the appetites you feed at night, sometimes it comes to
fruition the next day and that morning, I'm telling you
in the bed, yeah, open my eyes do dude. When

(01:45:00):
I'm on the court, dog and I'm like, what am
I cooking? What the heck am I cooking? And I said,
because you know, I love watching those NBA inside the mind,
that's where I get those from. If you if you
google that that KG one. Yes, they are from like
two thousand and eight. I want to say two thousand
and seven. Well yeah, because he was on the Celtics,
so it was like two thousand and eight and they

(01:45:23):
did it and it was a lot of dudes.

Speaker 2 (01:45:25):
It was I think they did ja kidd.

Speaker 1 (01:45:26):
They did Damon Jones like they did so many guys,
but I love that KG one because he's like nobody
like I always say this. The reason why, one of
the reasons why I speak with so much passion, I
think why I'm so comfortable with doing so is because Davon,
that's the era we grew up in, KG talking about
was not afraid to talk about basketball that way. Kobe,
Alan Iverson, Jamal Crawford, these they spoke with heart. Now,

(01:45:50):
you know, now we get a lot of guys that
are just chill, and that's cool to each their own,
but there's just something about just no say how you feel,
say how that makes you feel. So when I thought
all of that, I said, I'm gonna do that right
and I'm like, okay, I'll cut it off right here,
and it's so smooth.

Speaker 2 (01:46:07):
I appreciate you, Bro.

Speaker 1 (01:46:08):
I love you because you brought it back after you
brought the rest of this. Yes, because I said, I
had to put that in there. And you know, and
this is what I always say, I know I have
something when something happens unintentionally.

Speaker 2 (01:46:19):
Because when he did.

Speaker 1 (01:46:21):
The and I'm like, ah, and the beat naturally went
down at that part. Goodness, I said, I have to
finish that I think that was when I made the
stay face because of how that you played with that,
Because really, KG, Allen and Kobe's voices kind of guide
you through this track. And again it's almost meditative as well,

(01:46:41):
like you know, you love the game so much KG
at the stanchion, you know, like Kobe had his his moments.
I'm sure like a I too, like Sodaz, I wanted
to ask you, like, since we're on it real quick
like so and you're kind of touching on it already.
Three passionate some of the most passionate players to ever

(01:47:04):
play the game, especially KG, absolutely especially KG. And what
is it about them that you resonate with so much?
Where does it.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Kind of came like I had to I got.

Speaker 1 (01:47:16):
Include this like and then even from KG, like you
said that you heard him, So how did Alan and Kobe.

Speaker 2 (01:47:22):
Come in too?

Speaker 1 (01:47:23):
So? So when I knew I had KG, I said,
I can keep running with this because there's other ones
that I liked. Yeah, And I said, what I love
about Alan Iverson is that he kept it simple, right.
He reminds me a lot of Russ Okay, Like, yeah,
I play every game like it's my last, Like when
I'm out there, I'm out there, which he just said
recently too, right, Russ always says the same thing. So
it's like, whether I got four points or forty, you're

(01:47:45):
seeing my blood, sweat and tears on this court.

Speaker 2 (01:47:47):
And like I said, I think that's what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:47:49):
We came up. That's how you play the game. That Like,
that's why a lot of our OG's get so upset
with the low management thing, because that wasn't what we did, Bro,
that was not how we were trained. Like I said,
we're devon, we're coming up studying them, right, Like sure
we're of age where we can remember all these guys careers,
but like growing up, that was the game. Was how

(01:48:10):
Alan played, it was how KG played. It was mean,
it was tough, it was grimy, it was passionate. I'm
I'm I love this game. And that's what I thought of.
These are guys that have expressed if I haven't said
it enough, I can look up these interviews and they
they'll express how I feel. That's why I use those

(01:48:31):
because again, like Alan Kobe, like you said, these are
iconic figures, so I already knew those are the three
that I want, and so I was like, yeah, like
that's my era. It lines over with my era. I
was like, let me keep it early two thousands. So
I was like, but that's who I studied, that's who
me and Devone like, honestly, this song is a love letter.

Speaker 2 (01:48:50):
It's it's it's like a few things.

Speaker 1 (01:48:51):
It's a love letter to basketball in that regard because
it's like, again, if if I can't put the words
to it, these guys did. It's it's a it's actually
a letter. I'm sure we'll get into it more, Devonne,
but it's the verses are actually a letter to kind
of like my younger self. And then yeah, man, but
it's like all of that like the love of the

(01:49:12):
game again. Oh and lastly, you know, I said a
lot of negative. You know, I opened up a lot
about a lot of things that I'm feeling on this album.
I just don't feel comfortable leaving y'all with just negativity. Yeah,
let me at least try to Like this song is
like if I need to pick me up, I should
listen to this, you know. So, like I said, I

(01:49:32):
pulled the heartstrings of like, if you grew up with
two thousands NBA, you're gonna love this song because just
not even off my verses, but just off the KG
the instrumental. It's heart felt, Like again, devon, if you
felt like like the all the NBA commercials and promos
that we grew up with, if this song makes you
think of that I did my job, like you could

(01:49:53):
skip the verses for all I care, like if you're
just there for the vibe like I love it, because
that's that's what I wanted all that in that.

Speaker 2 (01:50:00):
I would like. This is that song I would play
before a game.

Speaker 1 (01:50:03):
You know what I'm saying, And I don't even appreciate
it all the way on hype music to play the game,
I like to just listen to whatever I'm feeling to
feel good, like you know that that's that's the type
of player like I would be. But that does That's
probably the last song I listened to before I get on.

Speaker 2 (01:50:18):
With my routine, like if I if I was in
the NBA like that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
That's what you said something to doesn't I didn't even
think about this, Funny you just said that I love
this game. Remember that used to be the sloga too.
That image is also in the cover. It is the
time I didn't even know this was before. Yeah, so
that that blew me you and you speak about that

(01:50:43):
right now. But the one another theme is just like
that unshakable drive that they all had and you have
des Like the thing about that specific KG clip too,
is like this. I remember when we were watching it
one time, like I think probably when we first discovered it, yea,
and like theres I feel you had it on repeat

(01:51:04):
and you were like, in a way glowing because I
think it was that there's like just how you are,
Like I feel like there's you. I finally found somebody
who sees the game the way that I see it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:16):
And you know, I may not have always like.

Speaker 1 (01:51:18):
Fully protested processed it at this age, but I feel
like there's KG was always that guy. If there's somebody
that's gonna get me, and like, you know, it's kind
of you know, like they say, like, hey, this person
got beef. We about to fight, Like come on, like
KG is walking with you. You know he gonna be
right with you. I will too, but you know what
I mean, you know, but but jokes aside, like I

(01:51:41):
feel like, you know, does you really resonate with KG
in that sense, like the way that he always expressed
and still expresses it even in retirement, you know, like
there's I feel like you and KG are like that.
So that that's why I love you know, the inclusion
of him specifically with that, because I always feel like
y'all was kindful in that way, like you know. But yeah,

(01:52:05):
there's so I also wanted to ask you about, uh So,
some of the lyrics. I didn't write them down specifically,
and I think this is how fast the thoughts were
flowing with this track. Okay, but uh so, I wanted
to ask you about There's kind of and again connecting
to some of what we talked about at the start
of this this episode. The way that you because you

(01:52:28):
talk about this, I feel like subtly in in that
first verse, like the way that you kind of found
and embraced your gifts is like that journey from Okay,
this as far as me being an NBA player, it
doesn't seem like this is working out. I have to
find something. I gotta find something, and it's like it

(01:52:49):
was slowly being revealed to you through time. Yeah so,
and you never really talked about it openly in this way.

Speaker 2 (01:52:58):
I feel like.

Speaker 1 (01:52:58):
You through me through the song. Yeah, so, kind of
going back to that time, there's kind of how you
what was that journey like embracing your newfound gifts once
you found them, and then you eventually started posting on TikTok,
you know, posting on Instagram the four bar Fridays like
that whole era. What was that like for you? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:53:20):
Yeah, man, it was.

Speaker 1 (01:53:21):
It was interesting because like I remember being like really
grieved that Miambiagri's kind of what we said earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:53:30):
Yeah, like that that. Nothing has really hit me like
that since.

Speaker 1 (01:53:34):
But like I just but I've noticed that's still kind
of with me, Like it still follows me a little
bit where it's sometimes I'm just like, dang, like it
didn't happen. Yeah, And as I've gotten older, I've been
able to own up to it more. Back then, I didn't. Yeah,
I was a kid, like I was, I wasn't going
to like uh, but yeah, it was interesting because I

(01:53:54):
had to finally do a mom always kind of wanted
me to do, and that was opened myself up to
finding out and like, I know, you remember this. That
was like the first thing I told myself was like, well, shoot,
if I got to let this go, I need to
find something that I love just as much because this
is everything to me. I prayed about this every night

(01:54:16):
I went to bed. This kept me up when I
was in high school at night, like I wanted this,
and I always say me, but Vaughn, I wanted that
for us you. I told everybody me, like, that's why
it's almost like I smile when I watch the Thompson
Twins because I'm like me and Devone. I told everybody
me and Devone are going to be the greatest twins

(01:54:38):
slash brothers to ever play in the NBA.

Speaker 2 (01:54:40):
And we always talk about that.

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
Every brother slash twin group in the NBA, it's always
like one is always slightly better than the other, and
then the other one like fades out. The other one
is at best a rotational player, maybe an All star.
It was never like they're both amazing. So I always said, like,
that's what it is. So like I had to step
away from that and be like, Okay, what's next. And

(01:55:06):
that's when I was like, I mean, I always liked rap.
I always liked hip hop. You know, I flirted with
the four bar Friday. I guess that could be a
lane for me, we'll see, But like my main thing
was like one of the things I thought of at
that time was like I wanted to feel like NBA Street,
like Von when we popped in NBA Street and especially

(01:55:27):
when NBA Street two came out, and like they just
did such a great job introducing young kids to the ogs,
Like yeah, j Kid nice, But it was Magic first,
and before Magic, it was Bob Coozy. Right. You learn
the game, you learn the history. You hear the current
players talking about those players with such reverence, It's like, Okay,

(01:55:51):
I want to get like that. So when I found
hip hop again, not to be confused with rap, hip
hop got the same feelings. Oh Rock Kim KRS one
be that he came, Grandmaster Flash, Furious five, Run DMC

(01:56:11):
was the coolest cats. I don't care what anybody says
about swag. Run DMC was swaged before they started saying
the word I love this. Look at that big old
Cuban link chain. You want one, I'm gonna give me
a fake one. You want one, I'll put two orders in.
Like I beg I begin I began the Oh elkuj
was that dude?

Speaker 2 (01:56:30):
You know I can educating yourself on the history same way.

Speaker 1 (01:56:35):
Yes, you were able to the game basketball, Oh basketball, like, oh,
there's there's science is it's concepts behind it? Right, These
hip hop artists don't just rap. It's it's not just
gangster music. It's not just a fad. It's not just
oh what's up with all those words they're saying, it's

(01:56:55):
oh nah hm. They speaking of a community. They care
about the art. It's not just the bars. They care
about the art. So when I made that transition, when
I knew I was, I knew I had it. When
I started feeling that way about hip hop, it was
connecting a little bit. So I knew I made a
I know that's a lengthy answer, no, but that that's

(01:57:16):
that's that's really what it was. Ron So when I
made that transition, I just knew I was in the
right place when I started getting the same feeling. And
I was nervous about that, you know me, I was
nervous about that. I remember, I do remember that days.
I feel like I always felt like as your brother,
like you know, just seeing and you know, allowing you
that space, you know, never like pushing you or nothing,

(01:57:39):
but and just watching you. I always felt I'm like,
you know, I feel like this is tough on this,
but I'm like, you know, it'll happen because you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:57:46):
I'm like, he is one.

Speaker 1 (01:57:47):
Of the I'm like, he's gotta go through it. Yeah,
he'll figure it out. And you see, we went like
a revolving door in a way, because you did.

Speaker 2 (01:57:55):
I always tell people you did it first.

Speaker 1 (01:57:57):
That's what did wake me up a little bit because
I'm like, and again you had to shrug me off
like Dez quick with all this basketball stuff, like like,
can't you see I'm trying to figure this out, Like
you didn't say that, but I could tell that's.

Speaker 2 (01:58:09):
What it was. So then I was like, oh, I
gotta let him fly. I gotta let him do his thing.

Speaker 1 (01:58:14):
And then boom. I think you had the similar thing.
You were finding it through that stroke of a pen,
through that, you know, the the Disney stuff. You were
huge on the Disney animation stuff at that time, Like
that was kind of your starting point. And I could
tell that's what was getting your basketball itch, the things
you were creating and stuff like that. So I'm like, oh,
now it's my turn. I got, like we were saying earlier,

(01:58:36):
coming to reality. So yeah, man, that's the long answer.
I appreciate you sharing all that this's a really big
growth moment. Again, I'm telling you like this those years,
I feel like you know, And that was kind of
God saying too. Probably did like you know, you not
gonna see it yet. Yeah, but something is brutal. You

(01:58:57):
will understand later, you will understand. Yeah. Yeah. So then yeah,
there's a couple of lines because you have some really
nice lines in here. Thank you, And again you were
saying a love letter to the or a love a
letter to yourself. I got that same vibe, des I
hold you like and it's also like I feel like
you were writing it to somebody, you know what I'm

(01:59:19):
sayings like whoever picks this up?

Speaker 2 (01:59:22):
And I thought about d Rose Dez.

Speaker 1 (01:59:23):
I feel like you were in your d Rose back
like the way that he's been that's great, and the
way he's been talking to the youth the city through
his social media. Don't pick up that pistol man. Yeah yeah, bro,
like you you say, want every other brother on this
earth to get used to my mud og your kid.

(01:59:44):
Don't let him tell you me only thugs. I know
you got it in you and the FAMI is believing
in you. You gotta own it too, even when the
doubt getting to you, like there was that there was
moments I'm like, this is like d Rose.

Speaker 2 (01:59:57):
I'm like Dez is doing the same thing, like to
give game at the same time and also game to himself.

Speaker 1 (02:00:03):
Yes, sometimes we need.

Speaker 2 (02:00:04):
It too, Yeah, we need it too.

Speaker 1 (02:00:05):
Yes, you nailed the line there, You nail that, You
nail because like that's what it was like. Again, you
kind of put the with with the word choice. You
kind of connect what I'm saying right like through that verse. Again,
you're right Vaughn, Like I'm basically talking to like the
kid out there who may listen. But it's also like
what would I tell like fourteen year old me. So

(02:00:26):
that's why I say I kind of take them through
the journey like I'd have made it out that valley.
Believe me, keep it hopeful. Never saw me your future
without the rock, right, I never saw. I never thought
basketball wouldn't be a part. But I kept the pen
pushing their rating my every spot right with with whether
that's basketball, whether that's the art shout out to my
Gi Gi brand Tyler, whether that's articles like I put

(02:00:48):
that's basically me saying I was doing something about basketball,
even if I didn't have the athletic ability that I like,
you know, or career that I thought, you know. And
like when I say that, write like, oh you didn't
mention this, How did you like that the NBA Street
DJ oh yes, Man's game time playing keep it did

(02:01:10):
peep that, and I started to write that down, but
I'm like, is this gonna be too much because I
don't know, like we said, I'm like, you know, I
don't want to make I had to do that, but
I did keep it. Good job bringing that up because
I death peeped it, like when I read through it.
I think it was after I listened to it and
I was just reading.

Speaker 2 (02:01:30):
Through the lyrics again.

Speaker 1 (02:01:32):
It just to kind of okay, let me get like
inside the mind a little bit, and I said, ah, yeah,
I'm like keep through in the NBA Street. I'm like
that's a but but I'm sorry, Paul, I just want
to get back to your question. It's just like when
I was saying all that I was, I was literally
taking you through what I was going through. So when

(02:01:53):
I got to that part when every other brother on
this earth, TICKET used to my mug like literally this
the pod Yeah, like seeing a black man doing this.
We didn't see this the closest I always say closest
thing we got. You know, we grew up with Stuart Scott,
Jay Harris, John Saunders, like the sports reporters, Sports Center, right,

(02:02:13):
stephen A was coming on in the afternoon, like that
was if you couldn't play, you were doing that, And
so I wanted to be the same thing where it's like, okay,
how what would I What would I tell my younger
self or what would I tell that kid down the street,
Like it's cool to have other avenues Like like that's
why I say in the beginning, AO, I do this
for the culture, to let him know it's okay to

(02:02:35):
chase a dream, to keep another in the hoster Like
that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (02:02:40):
Like I struggled with that.

Speaker 1 (02:02:41):
It like I was not looking at my hoster. There
was a whole secondary weapon there like call of duty,
and I didn't care.

Speaker 2 (02:02:48):
I didn't like it to you. Why why you asked
me what you asked me?

Speaker 1 (02:02:51):
I didn't care. You know what I'm saying, primary weapon NBA.
So so yeah, when I say all that, O G kid,
don't let them tell you we only thugs. I know
you got it. In you, and the fam is believing
in you. It's what I was saying earlier. You do
get a you do feel a little bit of that
pressure because it's like everybody telling you great, everybody believing

(02:03:14):
in you. You know, so you got to own it too,
even when that doubt getting to you. And that's why
I go right into that part. I used to be
like you black, hot headed too, Black jel is sitting
tunnel vision, Yeah, you are fool Black. Yeah, talk about
those live where you end with black because it comes
up again later like I like the the again, the

(02:03:35):
passion and the the like.

Speaker 2 (02:03:37):
The bite in those lines. There's like that.

Speaker 1 (02:03:39):
That's where it really feels like, oh he talking to me,
or like he's talking to you know these little kids,
like yeah, what I'm saying like so so yeah, go ahead,
go ahead with that. So as far as song structure,
right again, as much as much as I didn't really
feel good about this song as a whole, I knew
that I had something with that. I'm like, oh, I
can bring it back in the second verse. Yeah, that

(02:04:00):
can be my thing. And so like I know most
death did it and Black on both sides, Like He'll
say that and I was just listening to it before
we did this. There was one of the songs he
says that, like he refers to it's have to Ti Tonge,
somebody's gonna know, but he says that, like, oh, something
something black right, And I think even while they did it,
and I can't think of it, but I want to
say why they did it In one of his songs

(02:04:21):
where it's like something something black, something something like, you know,
instead of saying Jack, instead of saying ye holdie whatever,
I was just like black right, And it's easy to rhyme,
but yeah, so I like that's what I was, like
I was. I used to be like you Jack, hot
headed to Jack, but I was like, nah, let's keep
it culture. I used to be like you black, hot headed,

(02:04:42):
too black, and like I always say, because that's how
I was. So I'm literally telling you I used to
be like you. I can say all this because I
used to be like you, Like I used to be
hot headed. Because the basketball stuff didn't go my way.
I felt like somebody could have came and helped me
or or you know, I wasn't taking accountability as well

(02:05:02):
as I should have, and and and you know I
was jealous of other people. You know, Mom talked to
us about that a lot growing up. I was jealous
of people. I was jealous of people that made the team,
got to have the fancy backpack and the warm ups.
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:05:14):
I was jealous of.

Speaker 1 (02:05:15):
The kids that that maybe that that had the growth spurt.
I was jealous of the kids that that you know,
for some reason, they was just better with the pill
than I was. You know, tunnel I was so tunnel vision,
Like I said, my primary wopen like it was the
NBA or nothing. And I know what it's like to
go through that. And and and thankfully, like I said it,

(02:05:36):
it's funny you hear so many athletes that's why they
struggle with retirement. They don't have theirs. So I'm I'm
blessed that I found mine and God got me out
of that spot. But I'm saying again, as much as
I like to come on this pod and everything like that,
like you dvone, like you really know me.

Speaker 2 (02:05:51):
You know what I've been through. You know my thoughts
and insecurities and everything. And I'm laying that in this song.
So yeah, I meant I meant those words.

Speaker 1 (02:05:59):
You know. I used to be like you black hot
headed to black jelous sitting in tunnel vision. Yeah, you
were a fool because I didn't came out I was
a fool.

Speaker 2 (02:06:06):
So yeah, you were a fool.

Speaker 1 (02:06:08):
See the moments when it's in the ambitions starting to wane,
but I keep going. Yeah, you know what I'm saying,
even at my lowest for some reason, come on, bone,
we ain't gonna let them beat us twenty one nothing.
I gotta get my get back. Yeah, you know, Like
and honestly, it's like one of those things. Again, how
I'm saying that about me is how I would like.

(02:06:29):
That's how I would talk to you. Like I Again,
it's like I said, it's my personality. I'm not gonna
let my homies quit. So in a lot of ways,
I need to put that energy towards myself. Yeah, And
I don't know if you was gonna get into it,
if you wanted me to talk about the second verse,
or if you had something there as well, Yeah, go ahead,
go ahead, because like I said, so when it came
in the second verse, like I said, I kind of

(02:06:50):
expound on it. Right, See, how don't let competitive comparisons
trap me up? Attacting from my enemy and efforts to
wrap me up alliteration. I was gonna try to do
the whole thing in the literation. That was hard, so
I stopped. But you know, I go through that process.
You want me to bring a line, yes, yes, please
please the one that took out if in my health ahead.

(02:07:10):
But the ones that trust in Him are never found desolate.
So if you think you himns, spiting hymns till you desolate,
des that was a hard homophones that I always mix
that up. It's either homophone or hama nim. But either way,
I was playing with that same word, same word, different meaning,
same sound, different meaning, you know, because the ones that

(02:07:32):
trust in Him never find themselves desolate. Right, So if
you think you him like we always hear nowadays, spit
them hymns, spit them songs, spit them Gospels, songs, whatever
you got till you desolate, because if you're never desolate,
you're not gonna be desolate. Like, okay, that's why I
say to you desolate, because well, if we're never gonna

(02:07:54):
be desolate, that means you're always gonna be spitting that
You're always gonna.

Speaker 2 (02:07:58):
Be you know, But that's advice.

Speaker 1 (02:08:01):
I gotta learn to follow because I have not been
doing good with that. You know, I had to be honest, like,
but that that came to mind, That's what I always say.
That's when I know God is leading my pen because
it's something that I'm struggling with, but he put it
to my brain to write, so you know, I'm gonna
be obedient like yeah, yeah, man, And you know, I
feel like all the stuff that we're talking about has

(02:08:24):
has uh you know, has been like what I've written down,
I guess, just just to kind of expound as he
like another, I love the way like you ended to
keep calm kid, don't get caught in the fame and
promise this you won't lose that love.

Speaker 2 (02:08:39):
For the game.

Speaker 1 (02:08:41):
Like I love the way that you ended it that way.
And again, like I said, it felt like a letter
to young Das and like something that the youth can
resonate with soul. And again like we've kind of already
crossed this. But like Dez, when you were crafting this song,
how much did you see if young Daz oh when man,
you know, how much did you see of him and

(02:09:03):
think of him as you were writing? And man, that's
a great question. The whole stinking time. Like I said,
the NBA stuff was like five year old. Well I
don't want to go that young, but like you know,
oh eight, we were like eight. Not no that mad
ain't right. We were something years old and under ten,
I know. But I'm thinking of him. And how like

(02:09:24):
I always say, we go past this picture right here,
and we got our jerseys on. Yeah, I see I
still see them, same boys. I still see them, same boys.
Like I say, even with you, even with you, you
don't show it as much sometimes, but I know he's
still there. Like I'm like vo, I want to be
a point guard. I know sometimes he'd be looking at
this NBA and be like I can guard him. I
can guard him. But but but you know, not to

(02:09:46):
talk to joke, But it's it's I think of him.

Speaker 2 (02:09:49):
And like I said, I thought I high schooled me
a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:09:50):
Because he was tripping. And that's not me me, that's
not me being hard on myself.

Speaker 2 (02:09:56):
But that's just me.

Speaker 1 (02:09:56):
Like obviously now I can look on Yeah he was
a fool, bro, he was a fool. But yeah, so
I'm thinking of him. But like what would I tell him?
What would I tell him? Yeah that I love that, like,
especially as he's going through that, Like I I was
just thinking about that des, like I wonder what that
was like for Dez crafting this and then being like,

(02:10:17):
you know, this is what I would have I wish
I would have had, you know, when I was going
through all that. I still need it now. You mentioned
this earlier. I still need a lot of this now. Yeah,
but I'm just in a better position to pass that
on to high school dads and Davon or Jimmy or
Joe or you know, uh Clarissa whoever. You know, it's

(02:10:38):
not just dudes, right So yeah, yeah, man, that that
pretty much sums up you know, every everything. Can I
can I say you did an excellent job, like you put.

Speaker 2 (02:10:51):
Your media hat on.

Speaker 1 (02:10:52):
Brother, thank you, you put your media hat on and
you did it. Man. Make sure you show some love
for Von because he was on the hostess side or
the whost side pretty much and he did is think
you have some great questions. I'm playing hating a little bit. No, No,
I need to put I need to know, try to
be like I'm hoping I'm represented will and well now
I'm gonna spending and try to be like you. You
ask some great questions. You have some great questions. I

(02:11:13):
appreciate you this, So I just wanted to end it
with one last one. Okay, So, Dez, what do you
hope people come away with after listening to this and
kind of any final remarks, there's like the floor is yours? Yeah, man,
well I appreciate you, like I said this idea, man, like,
you know, this was really fun and went way over
what we thought. But this is like every bit of
this is gonna be what I hope of value. Then

(02:11:35):
this is why they make podcasts anyway, this is why
I made mine at least. But I the thing that
just keeps coming to mind is like I hope people
see themselves in it. And I know that they're gonna
see themselves in it at some point. You know, it's
and again this this could be my pride talking a
little bit. So again God is working on me. But

(02:11:55):
you know, I think something that that has kind of
already been a te is like you know, when you
hear me rap, you're gonna get faith, You're gonna get basketball.
And I feel like it's a cute thing. It's a
nice thing. It's a cool thing. But like I do
like rhymen. I do like rapping like a lot of

(02:12:17):
these songs is because I wanted to destroy to beat,
Like Mike, I wanted just to destroy to beat if
I could rap how I did on NASA's like when
I did like the NBA freestyle on y Like that's
ninety percent of time, that's what I want to do.
I just want to go all the way off. But
it's just something. Again, what the Bible also says, right,

(02:12:41):
the matters in the heart is what flows. So in
this time, it's been the struggles of being in my
late twenties. It's been the struggles with my faith. And
obviously you know I done read the Bible, so there's
a lot in me. Right, I love basketball, so there's
a lot in me. Those are gonna flow out the most.
But you know I I at the end of the day,

(02:13:01):
I love like I've honestly, I think I've slowly kind
of fallen in love with crafting concepts music like you said,
like it's so much too and I hope people do
appreciate that part of it as well, like like like
I said it in my capch like this is not
merely a basketball project, like like you, like I wanted

(02:13:25):
to hit people over the head like you're gonna hear
so much basket if Like, I think, it's one of
those if you if you listen so much of the basketball,
you might miss some of the life. Oh and and
and if you focus on some of the life, you
might not miss some of it. So again, it's gonna
be an awesome moment for people I think to digest
and sit with it and explore it, you know. And

(02:13:45):
and hey, y'all know I like to talk. So if
you got questions or theories what have you, you know,
you can shoot me a voice message, a DM if
you want to get on a podcast or whatever. I'm down,
like this is what I love doing. You know, this
is this is really dope, and shoot you know again.
Shout out to you Amber if you're watching, because I
guess I stinking am I don't know, Gody, you know

(02:14:08):
you was right claim it, Yes, sir, indeed a rapper.
You are absolutely five on the mic, always man, always again,
Thanks again for kind of allowing me to switch seats
a little bit. The sure, yes, you know, give you
your flowers.

Speaker 2 (02:14:27):
It's fun, ain't it?

Speaker 1 (02:14:27):
Celebrating is especially when that's true. It's just more fun.
It's a little biased, but but no, there's a you know,
I'm thankful and just proud of you, bro again for releasing.
Anytime you create something, to put it out it is scurry.
So you know, you you sit with anything, Bro. You
you know, you give yourself that piece, that room to digest,

(02:14:49):
step away when you need to, and uh, you know,
just let it be what it's supposed to be, what
you wanted it to be. You know, keep tapping in
and doing the great things that you're doing. Because I
can tell like the way that you're growing as a
as a musical artist in that regard it is you
are out here from d Rose second year to the

(02:15:09):
m v P jumping off man in that way, that's
that's quite the comparison. Yes, but you know, you know
it's love, Bro. I love you.

Speaker 2 (02:15:17):
I appreciate you, man, I mean you know you now.

Speaker 1 (02:15:20):
You know, like I always say, if you if you
can tolerate me, you will love him. And and after today,
I'm sure there are gonna be a lot of people
you need to have devon on here all the time.
So whatever, Davone, you you gotta plug something and drop
your social drop something. If people you know what I'm saying,
people want to tap it because, like I said, Vaughan
he he is, he is the man, he is, he

(02:15:44):
is an artist himself.

Speaker 2 (02:15:45):
Uh he he His music tastes is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (02:15:49):
He'll jump from Prince to Mike to uh Common, to
J Cole to Lady Gaga to like he got it all,
he got it all. So he's he's a He's an
awesome dude, So you gotta let him know where they
can find the awesome dude Instagram. My name Devon McDonald.
I be on ex but like I don't be on

(02:16:12):
there like that, so I guess like I'll throw that
in there too if you do like that app more
than the others, if if you don't have the other one,
but that one is at Devon without the end McDonald's
Devon McDonald And yeah, other than that, I got nothing
to play but oh yeah, but but if you would

(02:16:34):
like to have some of Devaughn's great art on your wall,
where can they find that? TBD?

Speaker 2 (02:16:41):
Okay, okay, I took it down.

Speaker 1 (02:16:44):
Took it down, so it's it's not no more, but
I still have my account, so okay, So so you
never know. TVD all right. But of course with that
then we have made it to the end of another
Hit to the game's breakdown. What a blessing it is
to be a participant of hip hop. I certainly hope
Open Gym resonates with you. I hope it's something that

(02:17:04):
you can relate to and find yourself in. Devon again,
thank you so much for joining me today and leading
the way today and being a part of the creative process,
being my second pair of ears, and just you know,
being a man, being my brother and you know, and
just being with me through this process and everything. But
as always, these were just our thoughts on it. So
now it's time to hear from you. Feel free to

(02:17:24):
tweek the show at Hit to the Games or tag
me directly on Twitter and ig at Desne Power Underscore.
Be sure to tag Devon as well as he shared
his socials to share your thoughts on anything discussed today.

Speaker 2 (02:17:35):
And of course I simply.

Speaker 1 (02:17:36):
Want to say thank you for not only listening to
this loaded episode of Hip to the Games, but of
course listening to Open Gym. I do mean that with
all my heart and just for being here off of
the love of the best combo there is and here's
a huge shout out to you for being Hip to
the Games. The gym is open, peace out, and God
bless hope you enjoyed this episode of Hip to the

(02:17:57):
Games and if you enjoyed this episode be tried. Hit
up the socials at Desmond Powell Underscore and at Hip
to the Games on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok so you
don't miss out on the fund and please follow or
subscribe to the show and leave a review on the
podcast platform you're on right now, as your support is
greatly to appreciated.

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