How Michele Timms Became The W's OG Fan Favorite: "You Had To Be There" Vol. 8 ft. Tyler McDowell-Blanken

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm going with a Valley favorite Phoenix Mercury legend.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
I mean like locked in as a player, Like she
had her teammates attention, she got to a spot in
the mid range a lot from what I can tell.
But again, just a very locked in focused player, easy
root for you.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Can say, I'm a w can table chest. I'm gonna
start with the confession. I've been waiting all episodes to
share this. I'm thinking about this all days out.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh wow?

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Should we say the same about a fellow light Ski hero,
Harvey Drake Graham.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to Hip to the Games, the podcast for you,
the basketball junkie and the hip hop hit. I'm your host,
Desmond and I too have had hoop dreams and enjoy
the beautiful genre of hip hop and its history. Together
we will enjoy some of the greatest albums, songs, artists, players, moments, teams,
and so much more, while even mixing the two on occasion.

(00:56):
All in my hope that you remember why you loved
me both or even these to begin with. You'll soon
understand that Hip to the Games is more than just
a podcast. It's a lifestyle. And if you were looking
for a platform that combines both basketball and hip hop.
You've come to the right place. They play my kind
of basketball and a lot of layers to this song.
If you're really paying attention, there's a huge shout out

(01:18):
to you for being Hip to the Games. Welcome to
another episode of Hip to the Games. Whether you are
new to the H two DG family or a Day
one supporter, I appreciate you listening or watching today's show.
All praise to the creative director of Jesus Christ, as

(01:39):
it's always a blessing to get in front of this
microphone and share what He's put in my heart with you.
And a special shout out to the home Team nineteen
Media group for the opportunity to represent a network filled
with passionate independent podcasters. If you consider yourself Hip to
the Games, I would really appreciate it if you took
a few seconds to give the show an honest rating
and review on audio platforms like podcasts and Spotify, so

(02:02):
we can continue to grow the H two DG family.
In the meantime, with the NBA offseason well underway, it's
time to get back to H two DG's exclusive segment.
You had to be there when the NBA season ends
and there's little to talk about. This is the perfect
time to throw it back and give flowers to our
favorites of the past. Whether they are widely considered all
time greats or hidden gems role players, none of that

(02:24):
matters here. There are legends, yes, but there are also
legends in the deepest part of our hearts, and this
segment makes room for both. And I believe we all
have that one player we reminisce over and say, man,
you just had to be there. You had to be
there and present in the moment to watch them on
a nightly basis and fully grasp and appreciate their skills
and talents. And in today's edition, I am thrilled to

(02:47):
be joined by fellow nineteen Media Group teammate one half
of the Gimmick Infringement podcast Duo Educator by Day Hoop's
Junkie by Night, making his second appearance on the pod
is my big bro from the First and Last Letters,
Tyler McDowell Blinken as he is gonna take us in
a different but awesome direction in today's time travel journey

(03:08):
to reminisce learn more about and give flowers to a
player that he enjoyed watching and by the end of
this episode, we hope to get the overall point across
that you just had to be there to see and
witness the way they impacted the game, Tyler, after a
Drake centered episode in your previous appearance, this time you
were on the basketball side of the spectrum, and I'm
excited to let our listener here see that side of

(03:29):
you and your passion for hoops this time around.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Dez, thank you for that exceptional intro. I'm just grateful
that I was invited back. I guess yes, phrase for
Drake did it age well, so I have a much
better feeling about what I'll contribute here. But DZ, you
know how much love it is. You are so great
at this, Like, I hope you give yourself a moment
to really sit in You've developed such an amazing show

(03:55):
and that you had to be there series. It's just
it's a blessing. It's an honor to be invited back
to H two DG. And I'm excited for the conversation ahead.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Oh man, me too, And I appreciate those kind words
as always, Bro, But man, listen, if our listener here
on the other side knew how long you've had time
to really think about this and how much of a
fan of this game that you are. How many names
you had to pull from? Tyler, Let's get right into it. Man,
who is that player that you look back on and say, Man,

(04:25):
you had to be there?

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Well, first, you're absolutely right. We exchanged many messages over
I would say months, the course of literal months. I
broke all the rules. I would just send you names.
You had to be there, Fhlip Murray or oh Dees
you had to be there, you know, dame the person.
And it was all building to this moment, so suspense
as side. You know, I'm going to take you to

(04:47):
the w for this one days. We're going, Oh, let's
do it. We're going full w NBA talk here and
I might surprise you with my pick. I'm staying in
the desert. I'm going, Okay, I'm going with a valley
favorite Phoenix Mercury legend, Michelle tams.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Ooh that's her name drop right there, Ty, that's her
name drop right there.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Okay, how we do it? Michelle Margaret Tims to be
exactly the au c icon foundational piece of the w
n B A.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Okay, let's talk about it then, Ty, let's talk about it.
So you know you've been you, You've thought about this,
and I know you went Homer pick right with with
with the Valley. I love that. But before we get
into kind of the career summary of hers, we need
the origin story. So you know where where in life
were you when you first got wind of Michelle Tims.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, well, don't let the hat fool you, dezs. I
explained to someone this past week who complimented me on
my style but then asked if I was a Valkyrize fan,
and I said, I'm just a fan of the W.
I mean literally, any any W squad. I am actively
rooting for them and wanting to rock their morch. But
that being said, is you know I am not to this.

(06:00):
I'm true to this. I bought props this might be
a first song that you had to be their series. Definitely,
I've been I've been about the Phoenix Mercury since we
were I mean, come on now, shout out to your
YouTube viewers if you're on audio. I have an original
w NBA hat and an original Phoenix Mercury hat with
the old logo. I actually found these thrift shop in
des This was a very good, very good, great pickums.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Look og logo is one that I still feel like
they should use. Come on that Mercury logo. There was
Mercury basketball was different when they kept the yellow in it.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
It's different. That's part of why I chose Michelle Tims.
I was thinking, Okay, well, there's like Cappy Pond, Dexter,
there's currently Dewana Bonner. But I have such an affinity
for this old logo. I do want to point out
to you before I give you more of my reasoning. Uh,
these hats are too small to fit my head, so
unfortunately they will remain as props. I can't actually rock them.
I can't be outside with them. But nevertheless two and

(06:56):
you've spoken about this very eloquently. You know here on
H two DG to think that the w was founded
in nineteen ninety seven, right that we're not even thirty
years into this, it's pretty incredible to see the growth,
the rise and popularity the fan base and how you know,
a lot of new fans are checking out the game

(07:17):
in the last say five years or even less than that.
So in terms of my fandom, so I grew up
here in the valley, here in the Phoenix area. Originally
born in New York, but spent nearly my entire life here,
so I have East Coast roots. Definitely more of a
New York liberty household. But really, all I know, my adolescence,

(07:38):
any and all of my formative memories have really taken
place here in the valley and Phoenix. We got to
get you out here soon. Dez Phoenix is absolutely one
thousand percent of basketball city. When the Arizona Cardinals of
the NFL are good, there's a lot of fervor around them.
The Diamondbacks, I know you rock with baseball days. The

(07:58):
Diamondbacks made the world here a couple of years ago,
total shocker, lots of excitement. But when the Mercury, when
the Suns are good, the city is buzzing. There is
an electricity around town unlike any other. So recognizing that, yeah,
recognizing that from a young age, and then also it
just so happened to be my favorite sport. I remember

(08:20):
the day I love your intro because you put up
the throwback photos of you suited up ready to play.
I remember being in the YMCA League as young as
maybe five or six and just loving the game so much,
loving how accessible it is all you need is a basketball,
you know, unlike other sports where you need equipment and

(08:41):
you need to set and the other all you need
is a hoop and a basketball and ideally some friends
if possible, if you're not, you know, a total sociopath,
and the relationships that you build through the game. It's
meant so much to me. I think it's very present
in Phoenix, and it just so happens that we have
one of the most successful w NBA franchises in the

(09:03):
league's history here in the city. So it's a basketball city.
From an early age, it was always my favorite sport
and we've seen as a fan base, we've seen so
many legendary players come through this organization. And again before
the Goat, before Diana Tarassi, before Beg and Britney Grinder,
before Cappy Pond Dexter, there was number seven the aus

(09:26):
c Icon Michelle Tims.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yes, sir, yes, sir. Okay, Ty, so you mentioned you
just alluded to this. Now she she is a member
of the inaugural w n B A right, so can
you talk can you kind of address how that kind
of played with your Phoenix Mercury fandom, Like, okay, this
the WNBA is kicking off, and and why did why
did you gravitate towards her?

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, this goes all the way back to the days
of the Mercury playing at what is affectionately called the
Mad House on McDowell. So that's the arena they played
in on McDowell Road. No relations would be whatsoever, just
a very really yeah, very dope coincidence. But wow, those
early days. And and granted I was very young as well,

(10:07):
right I was. I was. This was again really around
the time I was introduced to the game of basketball.
It was evident to me not only how much basketball means,
but how much these two franchises mean to people who
lived here. And Arizona really is a transient community. We
have a lot of residents who moved here from out
of state. I think you'll appreciate this. There's a huge

(10:29):
Illinois contingent. There's folks from California, there's really yeah, there's
folks from Florida. Like Arizona particular valleys made up of
such an interesting population of a lot of people who
weren't aren't from here. And again for me, early on
checking out, oh man, this this women's league hat started,
let's check this out. And then also seeing how the

(10:50):
community gravitated around the Phoenix Mercury and around Michelle Tims,
being that that point guard in the in the spirit
of a floor general, it just really appealed to me.
Like you said, the jerseys were fire, I really gravitated
to her style of play with the idea of making
others around you better das. Michelle Tims has career stats

(11:11):
in the w of about six points five assists per game,
so those stats don't necessarily jump out at you, but
when you watched her play, not only did she have
the respect of her teammates, but she just seemed in
control more often than that. And granted there were turnovers
to be had, we know this from our playing days.

(11:31):
Turnovers will happen. But the way that she did not
let that stop her from her goal or stop her
from being a really beloved teammate, it's really incredible. And
she again was a foundational piece not only for the
Phoenix Mercury, but as you said, for the WNBA back
in ninety seven with the Rebecca Lobos and Cheryl Swoops's

(11:51):
and Teresa Witherspoon's of the world. Michelle Tims was in
that conversation, and I'm glad that she's receiving her flowers,
especially here on h Twodigi.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Absolutely, and even that makes me think, Todd, why do
you think that she may not always be in that
conversation among I guess you could say casual fans, right,
Why why isn't she You don't always hear her next
to T Spoon, Lisa Leslie, Rebecca Lobo or maybe or
maybe is that just something from for me? Maybe maybe

(12:21):
she is in that.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
No, straight up, straight up, you're not tripping at all. No,
she's often. I don't think she's nearly as well known
as those greats that you listed off, Lisa Leslie and
T Spoon, And it's not even I think it's a
fact that she's not as as well known as them.
I think some of it could be style of play
and statistics wise, I think Teresa Witherspoon probably had a

(12:44):
more a more memorable style of play and the team
also did better. Right. You mentioned names of especially the
Lisa Leslie's of the world, Cheryl Swoons, et cetera, who
won championships. Michelle Tims didn't get to that level. So
I think, like any sport, when you reach the top
of the top when you leave with hardware that really

(13:06):
enshrines you in the minds of hoops fans. So for
someone who lived in the valley and lives in the valley,
you know, we have memories of Michelle Tims having these
really stellar performances, but it was never it was never
on the grandest stage of them all. So I think
really style of the play could be attributed. I think
also the Phoenix Mercury not necessarily you know, winning those

(13:27):
championships until the Diana Tarassi era played a factor into it.
And then also frankly there's you know, and ideally, luckily
by the time Lisa Leslie was really ascending, the WNBA
had more of a reach. But we're talking Michelle Tims
nineteen ninety seven to two thousand and one. So it's
not like today where you and I can just hop

(13:47):
on league Pass, you know, pay our twenty five or
thirty dollars and we could get games out of market.
Can we can do a lot, especially at the at
the very beginning, and then definitely if you're not playing
in the finals, like the Houston Comic to argue be
the greatest dynasty in the history of the League, you know,
if you're the Phoenix mercurying not necessarily in the finals.
It's just hard to It was hard to see some

(14:08):
of those games. So if you're living outside of Arizona,
are you even able to to catch those games pre
pre YouTube where you can go on highlights? If you
even go on YouTube right now, there's not a wealth
of Michelle Timms highlights. So even to this day, I
can find I can find Cheryl Swoops, I can find
Lisa Leslie, two Queens of the Game, which is great,

(14:29):
one of those founding pieces of Michelle Timms. It's it's
it's very hard to do that.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Yeah, you know, that's a good point, Toy, because even
for me, there was a day I was trying to
find Simon and Augustus highlights and even her highlights aren't
aren't much. I think there's a lot, obviously to your point,
towards the end of her career, and then there's some
highlight maybe like crossover highlight videos things of that nature,
but you can't really find like those games that you

(14:56):
see a lot in the NBA and a lot what
you see nowadays in the But yeah, that's that's a
really good point. So I guess it's you basically answered
the next question. Do you feel like she's underrated or
among good standing among fans and peers? How do you
see that?

Speaker 1 (15:12):
It's a great question. I'm leaning toward underrated, and I'm
gonna I'm gonna stand on that. But what I do
love is Tim's receiving her flowers over the years. So
if we can just look at her credentials, we're talking
multiple time Hall of Famer. I mentioned to you earlier
that she was inducted into the Mercury Ring of Honor.
I was actually there for that game, so it was nice. Yes,

(15:35):
it was Wild Tims, it was Penny Taylor. Yeah, it
was Cheryl Miller, the inaugural head coach of the Mercury.
So again, we know we love some some Michelle Tims
in Phoenix, but nationally globally does Michelle Tims was inducted
into the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame in two thousand
and eight, into the FEBA Hall of Fame in twenty sixteen,

(15:56):
and then maybe most notably for your your audience in
the Naysmith Basketball Hall of Fame in twenty twenty four,
and to me, that was an eye opener for people
because Naysmith has such a huge platform because you can
watch that on NBA TV every year. I think her
her career reached some new eyes and some new ears.

(16:17):
So I would say underrated certainly, But I do love
that she has received her flowers for the you know,
the recognition of actually being in not just one Hall
of Fame that's already a big deal by itself, but
to be in multiple really speaks to how she advanced
the game.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, that's a great point, Ty, And I think to
your point, like it's all about giving the pioneers they're
just due, right, and that happens with time. You know,
somebody had to tell me about Bill Russell, right, Somebody
had to tell us about Will. Somebody had to tell
us about Bob Coosey. So it's really cool to see
the WS. I think even in a lot of ways
still in that phase when you think about, like you said,

(16:57):
there's still under thirty years of exist distance now, but
for her to be one of those names is really cool.
Even for me, Like I've I always heard her name,
and what always stood out to me is that her
jersey was retired, right, and you know, you gotta be
you gotta be that girl in the w right to
to get your have your jersey retired, and you know,

(17:20):
for hers to be retired for such a long time,
and even when you look at her career, obviously because
the wh came into existence later than you would like,
she didn't she didn't get to play that much because
she was in her mid to late thirties. But to
still even in that window have her jersey retired and
her rocking the number seven, You know that that resonates
with me. That was my number. So Uh that that

(17:42):
that really sticks out when I hear her name. But Tyler,
what what sticks out to you about her game? All right?
I know you got the point guard Jeane, like you said,
I know, I know you have a thing for team
players and team basketball. Uh what is that? What kind
of stood out to you? Or were there other traits
as well of percent?

Speaker 1 (18:00):
So I thought about current A comps and to me,
Michelle Tims had the court vision of a Chelsea Gray.
Oh with it, I thought you would with the leadership
in tangibles of a Courtney Vanderslout. Okay, Chicago, come on, now,

(18:20):
I know where I'm at, I know which platform I'm
on at the number seven, I forgot about that area.
So to me, kind of you take the best of
those two players. That was Michelle Tims just reliable. I
think that this is usually not brought up in terms
of statistics days, but you know when you're watching and
it just looks like players enjoy playing with this person.

(18:43):
That's such an underrated, underrated skill to have. I know
there's not a meter for that on NBA two k
or we don't talk about it that much. But again,
whether it's in the professional leagues, whether it's pick up,
whether it's your school team, do people enjoy playing with you?
That is so underrated? So that's what I enjoyed. If
I could just put that under an umbrella, people enjoy

(19:06):
playing with you and you make other people around you better.
I love players who embody.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
That that's awesome. That's awesome, man. And and I'm the
same way. And I think you know what about this too.
As you were as you were talking, what about Lindsey Whalen.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Lindsey Whalen, that would.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Be another I think I immediately thought of her when
you were yeah, when you were sharing a lot of
those attributes, immediately thought of her. She was another one
of those point guards and obviously they're super bird, right,
but you know, going a little bit deeper into the crates,
you know, uh.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Lindsey Whalemen had a fantastic career.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, okay, so Todyder. The dopest thing about about Michelle
Timms to me is that you look at her rookie
season and out the gate, right, so I think, and
there's some effect to it. I think it's the inaugural
w NBA season, You're gonna on a show why this
should really be a thing. But you look at her

(20:04):
stats twelve points five assists, two point six steals. Now
you know me big on defense. I love a player
that can get a lot of steals. So she checks
a lot of boxes right there. Now, Tyler, be honest,
do you have any memories about that season or is
it just it's a little vague, a little fuzzy.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
It's a little fuzzy. It's a little So I would
have been I would have been I'm exposing myself. I
would have been four years old the inaugural season. So
I was soon tripping.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
I'm sorry, I'm that's bad, younger brother energy.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Right, I was soon I was I was soon aware
of the w but obviously, as you speak to on
on the show, Dez, you know, as you sort of
grow in age and grow in wisdom with the game,
you start to watch for different things. But I would
say as soon as again I made my My My
YMCA debut at about five, I was aware that, Okay,

(20:56):
there there's the NBA, there's Jordan, there's this these young dudes.
All you got Kobe, you got Ai, you got Steve Nash,
of course, but then there's also this other league that's
starting with less teams but some incredibly talented women. So
I was aware of it. And again I attribute part
of that. It's not only growing up in a sort
of basketball centric household, but again that relationship between hoops

(21:18):
and the city of Phoenix. You got to experience it
does it's it's it's special. I think back to even
the Suns and their twenty twenty one finals run, the
run that was it was stolen by Jannis and company.
It was the city was just on fire. And not
just because it's hot in the summer and I just
because I tend to read outside, but because of the fervor,

(21:40):
the euphoria. Dare I say that is around the city
when our teams are good, and something I do want
to add here about the Suns is that people really
get up for the Suns and pay astronomical prices to
see them. It is a fact that the Phoenix Mercury
are the most successful basketball franchise in the state of Arizona.

(22:04):
I don't think as a whole we always give the
Mercury the love that we should. This team has won
multiple championships, does mapal the Phoenix Suns have won zero championships.
I've won more championships with Phoenix on NBA two K
on the Xbox one than they have in their multi
decade existence. So again, I think that's kind of a

(22:25):
microcosm of society at times, where you know, we have
a team that has reached the pinnacle of the industry.
We need to make sure we give them love and
support them by the merch go to the games. We
love the dudes, we love the Sons, We love book
Hopefully Devin Booker's here for the entire career, but there
is a model for how to get this done and

(22:47):
how to have sustained success. It helps when you have
Diana Tarassi and Britney Grinder on the same team for sure,
but that also as I grew into my WNBA fandom
and my Mercury fandom, it was encouraging to see Michelle Tim,
Cheryl Miller and company laid the bricks to the foundation,
and then by two thousand and seven Mercury versus Detroit

(23:07):
Shaw two thousand and nine, I mean, the city was
all in on Phoenix. I kind of wish that the
WNBA had the popularity it does now back then so
that more people were tuned in, because those were some
really fun, offensive based teams. But again, that would not
happen if the Michelle Tims of the world didn't set

(23:27):
that foundation and go through some pretty tough seasons where
ten years later you're ushering in Diane Tarassi and her
and her teammates are taking this to a whole new level.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
You know, Ty, You bring up Rings right, and it
makes me think, how how would you the Phoenix Mercury
had already won back to back championships if I'm not mistaken,
if that was what eight o nine or two thousand
and nine, seven oh nine, yeah, seven, okay, yeah, was
in that? Yeah, yes, exactly, okay, okay, So with Cappy Pond,

(23:59):
Dexter D two I miss I missed that duo right there,
But that makes me think Tyler is, can you picture
Michelle on those teams? Do you think that the that
the Phoenix Mercury would probably won even more or do
you think it would be about the same.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, I think I think it would be about the same.
But Michelle Tims, it would be really interesting for her.
For Michelle Tims to play with DT and Cappy Pond Dexter.
There's only one basketball, so that would be that would
be interesting. But Capy Pond Dexter and DT just lethal scores,
whereas Michelle Tims again career averages six and five. She

(24:38):
was much more of a facilitator than I'm gonna get you,
you know, fifteen to twenty a game as the those
other other two ladies did. So I would say I
would say the same. I think at the very least,
Michelle Tims would be a solid I mean you could
put her in the starting lineup, you could bring her
off the bench. As being that six woman, I think
she would provide a lot of reassurance and a lot

(24:59):
of backup. I would love to say more rings, but
I think she would definitely hold down the ford and
kind of still be in that that conversation of how
many rings they got, it's just so hard to say
looking back on it day is because you know how
this goes across the W and any sport, health plays
such a key role. So I would love her as
being insurance, particularly if one of your two lead guards,

(25:19):
if KAP goes down, if DT goes down, you have
in this scenario a veteran and Michelle Tims you put
it brilliantly, does we can't forget that a lot of
the women who wear the foundational pieces of the W
they were at later stages in their career. I think
that's also a part of the conversation is what would
it have looked like if Michelle Timms in nineteen ninety
seven was in her early twenties versus you know, say,

(25:42):
being thirty two. And we know how this goes when
you're and it granted, medicine wasn't as advanced as it
was now, but you know when you hit your thirties,
speaking from personal experience, when you hit your thirties, things
are different. Days. You don't bounce back, you know, you
don't bounce back as quickly. So I think that's also
part of the conversation, but her being a veteran on
the squad at the very least being insurance for any

(26:04):
potential injuries. But at the very best, you could certainly
play those three together. And I think she would really
relish the opportunity to not only set up any teammate period,
but setting up Cappy Pond Dexter, you know, a fifteen
to twenty point a game score and then arguably the
best score, if not the best player in league history

(26:25):
in Diana the goat TARRASSI they would they would flourish.
I would love that they would win all the rings.
How about that change my answer? They would win They
would win all the rings. Keep them here in Veoenix.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah, And I think it's one of the biggest what ifs,
Like what if Diana had a true point. You know,
she she did a lot like you said, she she
did a lot of the handle another rock back then,
but you know, having what if she had somebody like
Michelle Tims. I'm sure they even probably think about that,
But toym, I'm looking at it too. So so Michelle

(26:57):
Timms was five to seven. She finished second in Defensive
Player of the Year her rookie season.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
I know how you, I know how you feel about
committing on defense. Let's talk about it.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
I mean to be I'm trying to think, have we
ever seen anybody since in the w n B A
come close to that kind of uh defensive dominance at
that size? You know, because in basketball as usually the
for the center, power forward, maybe a wing like Tamika Catchings.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
What have you great shout? The first name I can
think of is is one that you are very fond of,
a Skyler Diggen Smith perhaps where you you take I
think Skyler Diggens around five to seven, five eight maybe.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
I think I think she's five to ten.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Really I think so forgive me, Scott dig I thought
she was like five eight. So someone and what you said,
and you said this on previous episodes, because I am
a loyal viewer really taking pride in defense, right like
I'm putting my butt down and I am stopping you.
You are not to score this basketball. It's a great point,

(28:06):
Michelle Tims. But being being one who sets others up
and that that's we like to see that, that that
brings in viewers. But like you said, a lot of
her bread and butter being on the defensive end, that
doesn't always get shown on the highlights on ESPN or
nowadays you know, on social media. So I can think
of Skyler Diggens as someone who commits there. You mentioned
the Lindsay Whalens of the world earlier, I would say

(28:27):
even in a Natasha Cloud. But I know Tash Tall,
I know, so I know she's a good a solid
five tien at the very.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Least the same aggression.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
I see the yeah, the aggression, the pride, the lock
and speaking of great teammates who commit on the on defense,
tos Cloud one of your favorite players. Yeah, I think
Michelle Tims is definitely in this conversation. She loves the game.
And once again I keep emphasizing it. People just love
playing with her and playing around her, and that was
evident by the Ring of Honor induction. Uh, She's celebrated

(29:00):
and she not only was she one of the best
at what she did, but she treated people well. And
I think we see Dez in hip hop and hoops.
You can have all the talent, you can even have
a solid career, but if you didn't treat people well,
or you maybe have some skeletons in your closet that
can really impact your legacy. Michelle Timms did it right,

(29:23):
like many players right, like the Lisa Leslie's again, the
Cheryl Swoops is the Michelle Tims, Rebecca Lobo even these
are players who not only did their thing on the court,
but just had an impact on people positively. So that's
something I respect. You see Michelle Tims's contributions abroad in Europe.
We're talking specifically in Australia where she's really viewed as

(29:44):
a legend there and people know her name, advancing the game,
advancing the game for the girls and young women out there.
Her impact is really felt globally, which is so special
to me.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah. Man, that's all that is really well said. And
you make a great point what you were saying about
how the fans like avitate towards her because of who
she is. Like I'm even pulling up again the rare
highlights that are out there. I'm looking at her career
retrospective that they posted when she was in the Nasmith
Hall of Fame, and I mean, Ty, you're spot on,

(30:16):
Like you can just see the crowd just incredible, incredible
energy for her and the team and the way i
mean like locked in as a player like she had
her teammates' attention. Uh she she got to her spot
in the mid range a lot from what I can tell,
but again just a very locked in, focused player, easy
to root for when you have those.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Traits and the accolades that she did receive overseas again
in Europe playing for the Australian national team, and then
you know, years later you get a Lauren Jackson and
other dominant players who give flowers to the og, the
people who laid the foundation for them to be able
to flourish. Michelle tims Is is she just seems like

(31:01):
she would be someone fun to hang out with, you know,
something to play a pickup game where she just seems,
like you said, such a such a joy and grateful
to have watched her. And now fortunately we have platforms
like this great platform of H two DG. We have
the Natesmith Hall of Fame again easily seen on NBA TV,
and we have YouTube to watch that. And it's nice that,

(31:22):
you know, we have these avenues to just learn more
about her and learn more about all of her contributions.
When you know, when she was living through it and
when she was doing it actively, there wasn't social media.
There wasn't that reach to see all that she was doing,
not only in the US, but again abroad to further
the game. She has so much love for the game
that she's invested her entire life in further and get

(31:44):
and particularly back in the day as I don't know
your thoughts on this going to school and being a
W fan, but I specifically remember being in high school
in the late two thousands, early twenty tens and and
I'll include college in this as well, and it was
not viewed as being cool to be a W fan.

(32:05):
People would say, oh if they it wasn't that people
would say, oh, they don't dunk, or I'm not gonna
watch that, that's not fun. There was just this this
aura and of course these are people who are very
ashy and ignorant, but there was just this aura around, like, no,
this game is really great, and we have a responsibility
to support our sisters and support these women who are

(32:27):
tremendous out what they do. So I just keep going
back to man, the vibe of the league has just
changed so much, and just around fandom where it seems
like you can't go out without seeing a Caitlin Clark
Suresey or you can't go out, you know these days
around here without seeing something Diana Tarassi related or Mercury
related or the Valkyries. Right, we're adding teams to the

(32:49):
W and it's just it's just so important that we
give you know, we give props to the ladies who
you know, went through those coach flights and those you know,
those contra tracks that were not not very fruitful. You know,
we thought it was bad and pre Caitlin Clark coach
flights and lack of money back then, right though, those

(33:12):
foundational pieces. Imagine what they were going through. But they
they stuck it out, and I would imagine they just
must be so happy that the game is at, you know,
where we are today and the national exposure. How you
can say I'm a W fan and say it with
your chest. There are sure everyone watches women's sports. You know,
what are you doing? Stop being ashy? Like what a

(33:33):
time that we finally reached this moment and we've been
waiting for it. You know, teenage version of me was
waiting for this a while because I can just remember
back in the day at school, people would just look
at you kind of crazy if you said, oh, I'm
about to watch the WNBA instead of the Suns tonight.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Man Tivlan, that actually brings back so many memories that alone,
because you're absolutely right, like even for me and I
think like as men right, like you you turn on
a w and you and as a fan of basketball,
right you're just like hold up, like Katie Smith got
a torch? Who is Ivory ladd up? You know what
I mean? Like oh, Cappy Pondex got the best handle

(34:10):
in the league. You know what I mean. You're associating
those same things. And yet, like you said, you you
didn't really have the confidence to say those things. With
your chance, you can't really drop that at the lunch
table because your homies will be like, man, what are
you talking about? Like you know what I mean. So
it's it was even.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Hard to get merched back then. Now it's incredibly the
click of goes webs and click a few buttons, But
even back then, watching the games, buying the merch, it
was just such a chore. And grateful that we live
in a time where people are just now hopefully by
now seeing the brilliance of these ladies. And there are
so many storylines. Des you and I talk about this

(34:48):
several times a week chat. There are so many different
stars and different storylines to invest in. I know you've
accused me of being unfaithful to my favorite players. I'll
hit you up on day and I'll say yo Ma Satu,
yo Mike Kelsey or you know my airy and you're like, bro,
you gotta choose one. You can't everyone can be your

(35:10):
You gotta who is your team or who is your
favorite player? Because I just love all these personality the
stud buds you've mentioned on your show. There are all
these personalities and what I love is that. And the
w is not perfect, especially league offices and marketing in
the game. I know we talked about that when we
had you on Give an Infringement. Thank you for blessing
us with your presence. We'll see what Kathy Engelbird and company,

(35:32):
you know how they handle all this. But the women
of the league seemingly can really be themselves. They don't
have to present themselves in a certain way, or they
don't have to, you know, appeal to the eyes of
men or anything like that. They can just be themselves.
They can hoop and rest assured. People are going to
go to these games. People are gonna buy the merch

(35:53):
people are gonna lock in and they can again say
it with their chest that they're a fan of the W. Yes,
I'll tell you I am way more locked into the
w just in general than I am the NBA. And
I don't say that understanding. I don't say that for
Ig Cloud or for for any anything like that. I'm
just more locked into the w I just enjoy the
product more than the NBA, particularly during the regular season.

(36:16):
It's not just the league is much shorter, because the
NBA is kind of a sloth to get through. I
just enjoy the product and I just enjoy the personalities
more in the WNBA. And shout out again to the
founding women who helped to make all this happen. So
we can reach a point today where we can have
a podcast for an hour plus just talking.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
W Yeah, man, I think and to your point, I
think it's the day to day digestion, if you will,
of the WNBA to some degree. Yes, it's easier to
digest more than the NBA. There's less teams, there's still
you know, thirty less than thirty years in. There's those reasons.
But just like we talked about on GI, the competition

(36:58):
on a nightly basis, the personalities on a nightly basis.
Uh even today, right at the time of this recording,
DJ A Carrington gets traded. I literally woke up to
your text that DJ and A got traded to the
links of all teams, which.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
I predicted by the way it is, I I said,
this is this is on YouTube. Who I can tell
you who is? I can tell you who's returning to
Dallas next year, hopefully my Haley Hailly Jones very excited
you found a home who is not returning dij I
said that. I said this two weeks ago, DJ Carrington,
I said, Arique, and I said, your favorite coach in

(37:33):
the league criscal Klan?

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Is that Wait? Is that yours?

Speaker 1 (37:37):
And Mer that's your that's your Yeah. I don't claim.
I don't claim. I don't know if the coach is
necessarily improved over the don't. I'm just that that's your
that's that's your man's. And Tyler, it's I'm sad. I'm
sad to be shading a fellow, Tyler, But what's your
what's your man's in Chicago? Tyler, how do you feel about him?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Uh? Man, he he got better, he got better. I
think it's the roster construction. I think if we can
let him get get a season with a good roster
top top to bottom, then we then we can see.
At first it was getting a little ugly. He was
almost in the same spot as as the Dallas coach.
But I think, you know, again, like I texted you,

(38:22):
we're gonna we're gonna try to get Asy Fudd and
and then we'll see, We'll see, we'll.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Get We'll get Paige Beckers because agent some something I
do want to mention two days, because again, if we're
just thinking about Tim's in that era, how cool is
it now in twenty twenty five that there are multiple
women who are launching signature sneakers in the W. We
just take that for granted since you and I were
in diapers. There are so many dudes in the NBA

(38:48):
who had deals. We can talk Ai Starberry, right, we
can talk T Mac, we can talk cod people can
talk Shack. So many dudes and for the W since forever,
it's like, yo, but who is the signature shoes there?
We got the air swoops. Love that, but I think
for a while there's been a drought there. There was Stewie,
we got Sabrina and now you and I have talked

(39:10):
about this on multiple platforms and multiple DM groups. We
got the Asia Wilson's we got maybe your favorite player
in the league, Angel Reese launching her signature line with Reebok.
It's just it's just such an.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Amazing time across brands.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Yeah, all different personalities, all different fan bases, across these
United States. It's a really it's a really special time
to be a fan. I love the league so much.
I think it's only going to get up from here.
And dare I say, you know, we're almost forty plus
minutes in the conversation. I don't think we've even mentioned
her name. The Caitlin Clark of it all. She's a killer,

(39:46):
She is a great player, and I'm just I'm just
so locked in to see how the rest of her
career plays out. I'm probably the biggest Kitland Clark fan
in most of my group chats, but I think you
and I may share that distinction. I love the way
she plays, I do.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Yeah, she's got incredible gravity on and off the floor.
Like I heard Pat Beverley talking about that on his podcast.
Like what she's doing for the league is a single
handedly is crazy, Like when you supplement that with all
the strides that they've made the last few seasons, is
as a collective is just crazy. But that even makes

(40:21):
me think when you think of players that kind of
what's the word tie like have that kind of impact
where they make others better, right, you think of you
definitely think of Michelle Tims because I'm looking at the
stats her first year in the league. They go sixteen
and twelve at that time, that's first in the West.

(40:42):
Let's see. Unfortunately, they do lose in the semi finals
to the Liberty. Again to your point, at that time,
it's like if you weren't the Comments, if you weren't
the Liberty, like it was, it was a little thin there.
But that's the inaugural season. The season after that nineteen
and eleven, so winning records here, winning records, deep playoff runs.

(41:04):
Even that year, unfortunately they lost to the to the
Houston Comments in the finals to one. A year after that,
they do have a losing record fifteen and seventeen.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah, and you know how that goes is I think
for a lot of the teams, we root for a
great call on the Comments reaching the finals. But you know,
history usually doesn't remember when you lost to a team
in the finals. They only remember the victors. It's so
hard to bounce back. But she's still, at least from

(41:35):
our viewing point, you know, in the stands or on
the couch, she still handled herself with class and was
still beloved by the city and really well liked by
her teammates. And there was so much good vibes and
just affinity for Cheryl Miller being the inaugural head coach
of the Mercury allegend in women's basketball, just basketball period

(41:56):
in her own right. The foundation, the foundation of the
Phoenix Mercury was so well constructed, and I think in
large part it was due to, as we know as
hoops fans, who's your HC and who's your star player,
And in our case, fortunately in Phoenix we had that.
But yeah, you're right, two strong seasons out the gate,
Unfortunately you run into the buzz saw known as the

(42:18):
Houston comments, and then after that it's hard to get
back to that stage.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yeah, and even when they did bounce back, she only
played eight games that year. Again, I think that was
the decline was starting then.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
But you played a lot of basketball before this.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
Absolutely, yep, yep so. But but again, I think it
was an impact thing. The fact that they had a
great head coach, great leaders like her in the locker room.
I think it showed itself even when she wasn't playing
that much. And again, that says a lot about you
as a player when you can have that kind of
impact even when you're not in the game. And to
your point, is exactly why she is the player that

(42:56):
we've seen and the player that is so revered over
the years. But moving forward, Ty, now we get into
a little bit of the fun stuff, which I know
you're ready for, get into the H two DG side
of things. You have to pick one hip hop song
as the soundtrack to Michelle Tim's style of play or
her career. What song would that be and why? Now

(43:21):
I'm really interested in this one because now I really
have to start thinking of things. But I'm curious to
hear what you have to say to this.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
I'm gonna start with the confession. I've been waiting all
episode to share this, Okay, thinking about this all day,
des mionval Oh wow, and I hope you appreciate my selection.
We may have a viral moment here quite frankly, my
song choice, I'm gonna take you. I'm gonna take us
back to two thousand and one. Okay, great, I am

(43:51):
I great, Yeah, I am choosing Missy Elliott's Get Your
Freak On.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
WHOA. Now see, I'm not I'm not at all surprised
with the Missy that is. That is the minute you
said Missy Elliot, and I was like, Okay, great, great,
but wow, okay, expand expand I.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Would I would love to, so I actually even put
it in my notes so I wouldn't forget. Of course
Missy be putting it down. She's the hottest round just
just a phenomenal song still to this day get spins
so reason being des Missy displayed this confidence in her
own skin, which I would argue is on display and
Get Your Freak On as much as any song in

(44:30):
her discography. Missy Misdemeanor had her unique style and she
always made people. I would argue she always made people
around her better over the course of a career. You
got Blue Cantrell, you got Sierra that one two step era.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Talking about it and the war.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yes, New Monica, keep going there, you go, Monica, thank you,
But if we're specifically locking in on one song, Get
Your Freak On, was is unlike any hip hop song
I've ever heard before.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
It's just it kind of reminds me in some ways
of Kendrick Lamar GNX era, where it's it's like its
own production, it's like its own mini movie, like Get
Your Freak On could be its own own mini movie.
Maybe not available to the kids, but it's kind of
this own separate thing that exists. It's new, it's fresh,

(45:22):
it's different. I would argue Michelle Timms that inaugural season,
certainly over the span of her career, she was just different.
And unfortunately, I think what they share in common is
that although you could argue Get Your Freak On its
probably Missy Elliott's most well known song, I don't know
that Missy Elliott has gotten the flowers over the course

(45:43):
of her career as much as some of her colleagues,
who I would argue don't have the skill set or
having had the impact that she does. So I see
a lot of comps between the two in terms of
their career. But if I'm choosing a song that reminds
me of Michelle Tims's game and her act's get your
freak on. Michelle just went out there, she did her thing.

(46:04):
People loved her, people recognized her talent. And I think
we do a lot of the same with with Missy
misdemeanor dating all the way back, not nineteen ninety seven,
but all the way back in two thousand and one.
As Michelle Tims was preparing to wrap up for WNBA.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Stit Well said, Ty, this is hey, man, this is
why we do this on h UDG. I mean, come on, man,
what'll pull? And so many parallels to what you were saying.
I love how flawlessly as you explained that, the Missy
Elliott comp started to make more and more sense. So
I love that. Now when I think of Michelle Timms,

(46:38):
I see a lot of feistiness. I see a lot
of grit. I see a lot of toughness. And two
artists came to mind out the gate Eve and or
Foxy Brown.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Ooh okay, in.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Some ways I'll even I even want to say Heather
b And now as far as picking a song, let
me do my my head of b googles real quick.
Make sure I get this right.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Can we also appreciate now that you say that my
honorable mention if that existed here on the show would
be Who's that Girl? By Eve.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
And that certainly can't. I used that song when I
gave a rique Dog of the Week last season.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Shout out to Dog of the Week. Tok that that
that okay, So you've definitely had a moment that album,
that song in particular to me, just just in all time,
just flawless, still still as good as it was back then,
twenty years twenty years later.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, man, oh man, I'm struggling on this song. Though
there's a few. There's a few from Heather B that
I could pull.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Even you mentioning Foxy Brown. That's that's a that's a shoot.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, yeah, like just just just those those mcs that
got that extra they know, they got that that chip
on their shoulder right like that I'm thinking of I'm
thinking of mcs like that. Do I want to go
if Head's only New by Heather B? Because that beat
is crazy, That beat is crazy, and that last verse

(48:09):
of that song has a ton of basketball references, so
I really want to line that up. I just think
it's a good thing with me though, an energy thing,
you know. I guess I'll stick with that. You know,
ty I'm gonna probably text you, I'm gonna edit this
and I'm gonna text you is gonna be published on
YouTube and I'm gonna be like, dang it, Tye, I
should have said this one. Yeah, I'm but I'm gonna go.

(48:29):
I'm gonna go Heather b if head's only new because again,
it kind of lines up. You know, if folks only
knew about Michelle Tims, if folks only knew about the
w just a little bit sooner. You know, I think
I think it's the same thing. I think it's the
same thing, same energy, you know, playing with a chip
on your shoulder, playing for the fans. You know, you
gotta have that. But moving forward, Tye, I really want

(48:50):
you to have the Florida to share any final statements
all Michelle Tims. But as a lead, of course, I
just ask, what is one thing you wish the current
generation knew or understood about her as a player?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Wow, I would say her. Okay, I'll say this does
for your audience. I think we get so caught up,
and you and I have discussed this off. Are we
get so caught up in the pressure for the likes

(49:22):
and the views and just getting all of this affirmation
from external forces. I think what can be really cool
to think about when we're thinking about life and what
are we meant to do professionally and how do we
impact people? To really strive for your contributions to last
long after you're gone, for you to leave your workplace

(49:45):
or your team, your franchise, your company better than where
you found. I think all of us can strive to
do that in our everyday lives. We don't have to
be pro basketball players to do that. To me, Michelle
Tims again, maybe during her career when the WNBA wasn't
as widespread popular as it is now, and then even

(50:09):
after that to this day, lots of new w fans
you probably aren't familiar with Michelle Tims. I just got
this sense easy for me to be the armchair psychologist,
that her mission was always bigger than just the year
and now, than just the likes or making sure she's
on the billboard or she gets the recognition. She was
so about her business and so about loving this game

(50:30):
of basketball that I know you hold dear as do
I that I think her mindset, her energy was so
focused on advancing this sport, and it was about what
is her legacy going to be, how she going to
be viewed long after she's gone, and her contributions I
think are going to show that they far outlived her

(50:51):
career or her time on this earth. She has so
advanced the game for hoopers around the globe, women in particular.
I think we can take some inspiration from that when
when we enter new spaces, especially professionally, Let's try to
impact people, Let's try to do good work, Let's try
to treat people well and uh, you know, hopefully leave
places better than when we found it. And I would

(51:13):
argue Michelle Tims has done that in spades.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Man, it's extremely well said. Tie. I mean I think
I said earlier like the same kind of game face
she had as a player, you see that when she coaches,
and to your point, like I just think she always
had that mindset of like yo, like like I always say,
I got it from you know, the when Steph Curry
was really promoting his brand like change the game for good.

(51:37):
I think that's exactly what what what her mindset was. Like.
You know, it's a blessing to be in the w
n B A. I got to do my impact there,
But now we got to make sure the w keeps going.
You know, you look at the past history. Uh if
I'm correct, when when Anne Meyers was in a game
like there.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Was a professional Yeah, another Phoenix icon. For sure, it.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Didn't it didn't last that long. That profession only didn't
last that long. So I think when you when you
think of the pioneers like Michelle Tims, it's all about
to your to your point. How can we leave this
game even better than before? And now the players of
today are already taking that same baton who are still
in the league and still have some you know, accola
accolades they can still get, They're already taking that same approach.

(52:19):
So extremely well said Ty, I totally agree.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Well, thank you, Des, And I love the and likewise,
I love the bet on yourself of this all across
sports culture, pro wrestling, everyday life. I love a good
bet on yourself story. And think about yeah, because again
she entered the W let's say around thirty two. Think
about maybe the times in her past where she wondered

(52:43):
if the WNBA was ever gonna happen, And I would
imagine that she could have taken many different roads professionally,
but she loves basketball. She believes in her abilities. And
then eventually the w NBA starts and you know, for
five seasons she is a huge piece of now one
of the w's I would argue signature franchises. So I

(53:04):
just love a good bet on yourself story. And she
I knows, gets stormed around a lot, but she's certainly
true to the game. She just it's so cool. I
would love to I again. I would love to have
a shoot around with her, just spend time with her,
because it seems like she's one of those people where
last thing I want to say is also just to
me applicable to everyday life, sharing your knowledge and your

(53:28):
abilities with people like you. And I talk about that
in the podcast game when you have folks who are
selfish and like, no, I got mine, I want to
harness this. I want to keep this here. Everyone look
at me and celebrate me. I love when we meet
people IRL in real life and when we have these
figures who seemingly are the antithesis of that and they
want to spread knowledge, they want to lift other people up.

(53:50):
Hey I got here. People help lift me to this position.
I have a responsibility to reach down and bring people
up with me. It's one of my favorite things.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Yep, yeah, man, absolutely absolutely. And you know what, Tie,
I almost forgot, Thank the Lord, I didn't you have
one opportunity to put Michelle Tims in the current w
NBA with four current players that would realistically fit with
her style of play. Who would those four teammates be.
Let's get it, tied, Let's get it.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
That's great, that's great. I love it. Okay, So I'm
gonna go. I think this is maybe celebratory of the
moment we're in because she's the talk of the w
I'm gonna sign up page backers. I'm in this experience.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Let's do it. Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go. Haley Jones. Okay, this
is this is important to me, Dez. I think we're
on the we're on the up curve here. Yep. Yeah,
I'm rocket her sneakers. So I gotta go to me
the best player in the world currently, Asia Wilson. Okay,
So we got page backers, we got my Hailey Jones,

(54:53):
we got Asia Wilson. One more.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
And it's tough. You could go either way with this.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
I feel I feel like, I feel like we need
some more shooting if we're keeping it his stack, if
we need some more space, Yeah, we need space floor
a little bit more. I just just keep crashing back
to me like, Okay, I think we need a little bit,
a little bit more. Okay, shooter, Okay, this is this
is clear. She She's an important part of our friendship,
big al not little Alisha Gray. Mmm.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
I like that tie, Like, Okay, you got you got
Alisha Gray and Hayley Jones on the wings. Who can
fit with any roster. I feel like you got the
score in page who a lot of people would say
is eerily similar to Diana who Michelle didn't get to

(55:45):
play with. I see what you did, I see what
you did. You got and then you got the post
presence in Asia like you do.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
I feel like I got to fit a phoenix Murkery.
Can we get a six woman off the bench? Can
we get a I'm regretting not choosing side too. No, No,
I'm gonna stay on business. I'm happy with a selections.
I'm happy. I'm happy with my selections. But but if needed,
if we need to pick up a more free agent,
I gotta get a phoenix connection in there somewhere. But
I feel happy about those choices now. I love your
rationale page is a no brainer, Alicia, you and I

(56:14):
talked about that. She's having a moment right now and
is just as sending. I'm really excited for Hailey Jones.
I think her in Dallas. I wasn't expecting it, but
her in Dallas makes a lot of sense. I think
she could bring that in this hypothetical five. I think
she could be kind of that nice glue piece, who
is you know, being better by being around these other
talented players. And then Asian Wilson, I mean, come on, now,

(56:36):
you can expect me to not need twenty two? Did you? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Right right, yeah, man. Let's see. Okay, you got Michelle
at the one at my two. I need buckets. You
had a great pick.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Of course.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Let's see.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Let's see.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
There are guards coming to mind, but they do a
lot of they do a lot of ball handler. I
would want somebody that could still play off the catch.
Let me see, let me see, let me see. Oh
give me, give me Rikia, give me Riki.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
I need a bucket.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
I need a bucket. I need a young bucket.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Future future h T DG sponsored by Sketchers. Are you
are you playing? Are you playing in the seed for
that another player with a shoe deal?

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Hey, I won't, I won't. I won't knock that sketcher's money.
You know that would be nice to the podcast fun
you know how you know how it is?

Speaker 1 (57:35):
So you got okay, so you got k on the wing?

Speaker 2 (57:37):
I do. I got on the wing?

Speaker 1 (57:40):
Choice Uh you.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Know, ty, I like scores. I feel like I gotta
I gotta double up with scoring. Let me see who
else is out there. Oh, I thought of somebody, but
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Thought
about Ryan Howard.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Thought about Ryan Howard speaking of the Atlanta Dream, Yeah
about it.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
And she physical, She's a little physical. She she gets
into her fair share of uh scuffles and whatnot. So
you know, I think that does kind of line up
with with Michelle's kind of energy out there. Not to
say that Michelle would do the same things, but just
somebody that isn't afraid of that confrontation, you know, somebody
when it's playoff time, I need some dogs. Uh okay,

(58:21):
So let's go Michelle, Rakia, Ryan and again taller scores.
I like that let's see in the front court though.
Front court, though, give me Brianna Jones. I need rebounding
in the midst of all that bucket getting. I need rebounding.
Brianna can definitely do that, but she can also score
on the block. Uh so I'm gonna take her for sure.

(58:44):
And then the first name that I thought of, and
it's crazy that I'd be picking two Sparks, but the
first name that I thought of ty was cam Brink.
I need some shot blocking, I need some.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Shot She's back was it was officially Cameron Brink weak.
It was she can stretch the floor.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
What I love is that she blocks shots and doesn't
have to jump. If you notice a lot of her blocks,
she doesn't jump. So she's a problem.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
We just forgot about her because she you know, she's
been injured unfortunately, but man, she is a problem. She's
she to think that again, knock on wood. Good health
is in the future. This is the worst she's ever
gonna be as a basketball player.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah, So I'm gonna go there. I'm
gonna go Michelle Sims, I'm gonna go Rakia Ryan Howard.
Breonna Jones can't bring.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
I like that we can't find a spot on either
squad for Alyssa Thomas.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
I should have. I should have. I should have because
she can play the four too. You right, but you
know what, you know what I think the only reason
I didn't do that is because I get a little
more traditional. I want like one main playmaker, you know
what I mean? That would be that would still be
a hier dynamic point forward.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
I just, I just, I just wanted a current player.
But I said the tone I went, I went, no
Phelix Burkery players. That is on me days. I will
try to do better next time. I'm happy with your squad.
That's that's tough for you to pick two sparks. That
leads me to believe that you think the LA Sparks
may sneak into the playoffs here with this, with this

(01:00:22):
new moment, so maybe creep in creep in the back door.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
I'll say this, I would like them too. But if
you if you pay attention, I think that's the thing.
It's been health. It's been a little bit of chemistry,
I think on court chemistry reasons. But they they I
feel like they are coming. They are coming. I don't
know about this year and and even next year. I'm
not gonna sit here and say they're like top four,

(01:00:47):
but I I could eventually I see the vision. I'll
say I see the vision.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
And we're also speaking about that. Alica Peelee sing yes, yes,
and and who knows what's gonna come next. It's interesting
for the w if you look at the history of
these recent draft classes, some players really stick and then
other players they're just they're just gone. It takes you.
You and I were talking a year ago on Gimmick
Infridgement about Haley Jones and how I said, Okay, this

(01:01:15):
Atlanta thing isn't going well. I don't know. I think
the head coach has probably gone Tenisha Wright. She ended
up being gone. Haley Jones. I don't know that she
quite makes sense for the roster, and the way they
ever slotted in is kind of a traditional point guard.
I don't know if that's really her role in the W.
So I think it's also interesting there is that as
the league expands, hopefully this opens up more opportunities for players.

(01:01:37):
Because Alica Peelee, she was kind of the talk of
college basketball and people were really high on her, and
it was it was pretty surprising to me that Minnesota
didn't want to be in the ellisipe Lee business anymore.
But you know, I guess when you can get dj
ni character and there's only so many minutes to go around,
and they got ahead of that situation. But I know
you're high on La Sparks's core. I know you're high

(01:01:58):
on the Elyissipelee siding. The Sparks be a problem sooner
than later. It's not forget Kelsey Plumb, the leader of
the leader of the squad.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
I just think they got to watch out. They just
have to watch out for whether they have too many
cooks in the kitchen or not. Because all of those
all of those ladies are great, can be great scores.
And honestly, I think that's why they cam brink. You know,
the health of it all makes so much sense because
she's one of those players that can impact the game

(01:02:26):
without touching the basketball. Defensively, she's amazing. She can stretch
the floor like she doesn't have to be, you know,
she doesn't have to touch the ball every trip down.
And I think they needed somebody like that and why
they've been playing with such good energy. So yeah, man,
I am I am a little high on them, like
how I feel about them in the W is kind
of how I feel about Portland in the NBA side

(01:02:47):
of things. I just feel like a young team that
has a lot of core pieces where you just gotta
wait on the development a little bit, but over time
you know that they should shine.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
And like the NBA, is anyone really competing with in
the NBA's case, Oklahoma City number one? Right, even Denver.
I know a lot of people be high on Denver.
In the w's case, Okay, you can make strides. We
love that for you, and we love Phoenix having a
surprisingly awesome season. Is anyone really gonna beat the Minnesota
Lynx or even though they've been struggling, the New York

(01:03:20):
Liberty mm hmm, if they're healthy, the Minnesota Lynks feel
like they just got these. Nick Carrington, Yeah, I think
it's about to be. I think it's about to be
scary hours Kayla Kayler Thornton in Golden State unfortunately down
with an injury. I wonder if it's gonna end up
being a two team race when it's all said and
done sooner than later.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Yeah, man, we'll see, we shall see, we shall see.
But Tyler, last things, man, last thing, the most important thing.
You didn't get to do this on the Drake episode
because it was so Drake centered, But I am happy
to let you finally get to do your five by five. Tye.
We need the five by five because this is hip
to the games. Give us your five favorite basketball players
all time, your five favorite rappers. Now. I know this

(01:04:01):
was a w centric episode, so if you would like
to switch that up as well, make him to the
game's history and do a w of the of the
basketball players, I am totally with that. If you want
to do basketball in general, mix them up. However way
you decide to do it's hie. I just we just
need your five x five.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Man, I'm so excited for this, and I'm gonna hopefully
attempt to break a time record and I try to
go try to go speak with these w W wise,
Let's go with Airy McDonald, arguably the greatest player in
University of Arizona women's basketball history, and love that she
is having this, talk about it professional renaissance. This year,

(01:04:41):
Kaitlyn Clark was down with an injury. Yoh, don't trip.
I got this. I'm a bucket, you know, I got
I gotta go Arie for Arizona Resons transfer from Washington
and did up a wildcat almost women national championship. Let's
go are McDonald she lock up too? Oh my goodness,
let's talk about it. I gotta go. We're talking all
the time. How can we not put air swoops Cheryl

(01:05:03):
swoops on here? Oh yeah, my goodness, cheryls gotta be there,
my childhood crush. You mentioned her earlier, Lisa Leslie. I
don't think I need to include any any rationale or
any reasoning, just just to go, just an absolute goat.
So we got Airy, we got Cheryl, we got Lisa,

(01:05:26):
and then, oh man, this is where it gets really tough.
We gotta go Diana Tarassi, come on now, have to
have arguably I said this a few two times, arguably
the greatest of all time another person in that conversation.
And then if I had a fifth choice, Desmond Pale,
this is real tough. Who's gonna be my number five?

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
I can't tell if this is dramatization.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
No no, no, no, no, I know I would do that. No, no,
I know, I know I would. I would do that. Man. Okay,
it's it's it's a it's a cross between two people
for man, I love Tosh Cloud by the way as well.
My favorite person in the W currently. She's She's just amazing.
But I want to throw it back, it's it's a

(01:06:08):
close race between between these two. For me, my honorable
mention would be Tamika Catchings. I heard you mentioned her
earlier talk about an Indiana Fever star before twenty two.
Let's you'll love the Tamika Catchings mm hmm. I gotta
go Sue Bird on here. Oh yes. And granted there's

(01:06:29):
the Seattle Phoenix rivalry, some fun battles between DT and
Sue Bird, but you talk about again the these themes
of Michelle Timps's career advancing the game, super Bird ultra competitor,
someone you love playing with, someone who just loves hoops
and loves growth. Man, Sue Bird was just she was

(01:06:51):
her in that regard. So those are those are gonna
be my five. I feel good about it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
I like that tie, I like that man. And and
again you're you're you continue to make hip to the
games history. First w NBA player for the you had
to be their series first w lineup for the five
by five. Hopefully I can do this a lot more
in the future. But again we talk about pioneers. You're
pioneering on hip to the games. But ty give us
that other side. Man, what about the hip hop side

(01:07:16):
of things?

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Okay, I got the hip hop side ready, and then
I went, I'm gonna I'm gonna give a disclaimer here.
I went with choices that you will not hear from
other guests, because of course I can mention. I can
mention Cole, I can mention.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Come on, come on to do we want to hear
your favorites.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
I could mention Hove, all great discographies, Desmond Palell. But
I am here to make history and I'm here to
give you five names. Who who are my favorite? Are
you ready for this list?

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Okay, let's get it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Let's get it. I gotta give you that disclaimer. Also
shout out to Logic QB Matter but mentioned here, but
my five MC like, Oh yes, Rhapsody my favorite rapper
currently shout out to shout out to North Carolina's own.
We don't talk about rhaps as much as we.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Man, so poetic, so graceful, but so enforcing as well.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
You know, absolutely, she's the.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Girl I always see. She's the girl at the park
that you know, don't play like if you If you're
not gonna hoop for real, you might as well get.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
Off that boat. I might go with a more obscure
name here, but he has some of my favorite current work,
Brooklyn's own code of the Friend. Oh okay, friend, big fan.
Check out his album photo those listening and watching if
you haven't already foto from a few years back. Really
enjoy coda next, I'm gonna go Okay. This is in

(01:08:36):
part due to you being my favorite resident of Illinois.
I gotta go Saba here. Really love sa yep yep.
I discovered him on Angels with Chance the rapper, looking
at the Care for Me album, looking at his most
recent work, Really love what he does and how different
he is.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
He gets a lot of love. He gets a lot
of love he does. I do believe mc mills also
men on hers. If I'm not mistaken, it was one.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Of the mc mills. Oh Sin, that's a great choice.
I might surprise you with my fifth one, but I
have so many fond memories of this era. My fifth
and final choice from my five by five on the
MC side of things, I got Men in Black era
Will Smith.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Wow, Oh yeah, you gotta expand on that because they
don't know some of some of the some of these
people kind of forgot. You know, they're gonna see the
what he did, the recent freestyle he did and and
and be like, eh, but no, you remind him about
about Men and Black Will Smith Man, those soundtracks were crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
I like to provide joy. I like to think of
better times before that. What what's his new song and video?
I like girls? Oh yeah, I think you mentioned on
the show weeks ago. Just the it looks like it's
a prank is the probably the best thing I could
say about it. I don't know, but there was a
time when Will Smith was making good music Men in Black,

(01:09:56):
that era and I'm even thinking this this may even
be a little bit booth before we're talking getting jiggy
with it, Desmon Powered, we're talking Miami, mm hmm, like
that whole era, wild wild West, Men in Black, oh woost,
the videos, the aura, the bars, it just it's for me.
It's it's those songs. They just make you feel good,

(01:10:18):
right And I like music. I like music that makes
you think, it makes you reflect. I also like the
playlist the songs that can add that just make me
feel good and that era Will Smith does.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
That for me. I love that time. Look at I
am never gonna fault anybody for including Will Smith on
any hip hop list because don't let the acting fool you.
Like he started out with the pen Man. So I
I always try to remind, especially the newer generation, you
know that that you know he has some great movies,

(01:10:49):
but you know he can he can spit too, so
and I love that you were specific as well. You
know that it's always you know, sometimes it's the era,
sometimes it's it's not the whole one hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Sometimes you got so that you gotta specify. I wanted
to slide in logic because you and I have shared
many conversations about his discography. So he would be my
honorable mention for sure. But these are all artists who
I enjoy past and present.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Would you would you include him as a six man?
You can have a six man?

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Oh for sure? Yeah, absolutely, And if I think about
I do enjoy Saba's work. I just wanted to throw
a nod to you because not only are you the
princes of Chicago, but I gotta I gotta show love
to the state of Illinois and your viewership. There, but
Logic Logic at the very least would be in that
sixth slot for me. You and I have talked about
that under Pressure album, and I know your question is more,

(01:11:42):
I guess maybe ideally a whole body of work, because
I think some of his albums have been hit or miss,
but that under Pressure album, Dez. When I think about
just some of my favorite albums and albums that are
not just good music, but are our mini movies, our
projects are just art. For me, Logic under Pressure it

(01:12:04):
just it fits that description. I want to say, because
I think you when I wrote words about this, I
want to say it was. I want to say it
was like twenty eleven is when the album came out,
if I'm not mistaken. Twenty twelve I think was it later?
Twenty fourteen was it was twenty fourteen, we did the
ten year, we did the ten year last year. Forgive me. Yeah,
Logic at the very at least has got to be

(01:12:25):
coming off the bench for me, simply off the strength
of under Pressure. That album to this day is one
of my favorite hip hop albums of all time. I
think it's an absolute masterpiece. It's a shame it was
his first because I don't know that he's reached those
same heights, but my goodness, that album just hits me differently.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Yeah, man, And the thing I always say too is like,
and especially coming off the Young Sinatra mixtapes, into under Pressure,
I feel like it was the kind of album that
really said, like, hey, like, okay, I got I got
my reputation. Now I make this great studio album built
off that, you know, of combining all those I think
that was great. But you know, Todd, why the crazy

(01:13:04):
thing is, how is it that Logic when he was
kind of more into the facade of hip hop or
I should say, the persona of what what you would
think of of of a hip hop artist having the
more he played into that was arguably his best album.
But then when he started being himself, his music kind

(01:13:26):
of went down. Isn't that such a crazy like change
of whatever if you I don't know the word for it,
but like such a such a weird transition. You know,
it's almost like ironic because you're supposed to be yourself.
You're supposed to you know, that should be what you
would think is the music that resonates with people. But unfortunately,
for Logic, it just didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
It didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
It just didn't go that way.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
Could we say the same about a fellow Light Skin
hero Aubrey Drake Graham. I don't know about I don't
know about play in the facade of you know, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
A good question. I I just wouldn't. I just would
say no, because you you look at the recent What
did I miss? That was always Drake like, I'm gonna
be one hundred would you? And I'm gonna make it
sound good like we are we?

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
Are we back? By the way? Deaz with Drake? Are
we back? Are we back?

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Back by back? You mean like is he top dog again?
Or do you mean back as in like, yeah, the
Kendrick stuff is over?

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
Or do we think he is going to recover and
we're gonna rock? Do we not only a we're gonna
rock with him? But do we see another great album
in Drake's and media future? Is what did I miss?
Give you more reassurance, because there were I think there
was a moment there Deaes where not to relitigate. Yeah,

(01:14:47):
right right, We've already been there. That could be its
own separate tow our podcast, But there I think there
was a moment where where legit day one, Drake fans
such as myself thought, Man, I don't know if Drake's
going to recover from this. Is going to be a
portion of the fan base that always rock with him, particularly,
I think a significant portion that are women, which is
which is always interesting to me. I'm always eager to
hear what women friends of mine think about Drake, and

(01:15:10):
especially nowadays. And it seems like every woman I know
went to his concert in Glendale like two years ago,
which I was mad, ain't go because are just crazy.
But I think there was a moment where collectively we
were like, yo, is Drake just kind of done now?
He just kind of take his ball and run with it.
But of course the petty King couldn't do that. He

(01:15:30):
came back and you know, fired shots at Lebron and Company.
I guess my question is, do you see another not
only commercially successful, but in Desmond Pal's opinion, another great
album in the in the likes of Let's Say Nothing
was the same Take Care? Do we see another great

(01:15:52):
Drake project being possible? From the certified lover Board certified
lover Boy twenty five post demise via that dude from Compton.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
Yeah, that's a that's that's a really good question, man,
because I think do I think Drake has it in him?

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
But do I think he's going to get to that point?
I don't know. I don't, I don't. I don't know
if I can say yes to that. I really think
Drake would have to because and I feel like, again
this is hip to the game, so you know, we
we rolling with it. But I just think when I
when I don't know if I told you this. Tide

(01:16:37):
the Amen video with Meek Mill popped up on my TikTok,
and I felt, again, it's awesome to see that, especially
now that I'm about to turn twenty seven. He was
I believe twenty seven when that came out, or twenty six,
one of those, and and it felt like he was
just getting started. Like he had great Don't get me wrong,
he had great projects and and features, like we knew

(01:16:58):
he was the guy. But that seeing that Drake again
compared to what we've seen the last few years, it
just it was different. It was different. I'm like, I
felt like at that time he was just ready to
take the rap slash hip hop world by storm. And
I don't know, and and rightfully. So he's he's accomplished
everything you want to accomplish in this game. But I

(01:17:21):
don't know if he wants to go. I don't. I
think it would have to take for him to really
sit with himself to get back to that kind of
those levels of music in my opinion, I mean short,
maybe something like this is exactly what it took for
him to make an album like that. Again, you know,
I don't rule it out. I just don't know how

(01:17:41):
confident I am and saying that, yes, you know, we
will get one. What are your thoughts on that though?

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
How would you? Yeah? Yeah, I really it's interesting what
you said. I thought there was a real possibility that
he was going to lean into you remember that Scorpion album. Yes,
beside there were some there were some hits on there
was Yeah, yeah, there was. I mean granted, like there
were twenty four songs, and I rock with about like
thirteen of them. But if you just had those.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Make that from the field, there's still possible.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Maybe Drake is a future sponsor. Maybe you know, any
one of his business men.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
Come on, I'll still bump emotionless, like, don't give me
started time.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
Come on, you know, I have not heard emotionless in
a minute. I may have to play that after after
we we wrap our time. Okay. So there was a
song on there March fourteenth, very reflective about fatherhood and
and Adonis, his son, and you know, maybe some of
Drake's own shortcomings in his family history. I thought there

(01:18:40):
was a real possibility and I want to say he
dropped scorpion and man, don't quote me. This must have
been maybe twenty seventeen. I think it was. It was
pre pandemic.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Yeah, you're right, though, I think I think it might
have dropped twenty eighteen. But of course he probably recorded
that about twenty seventeen, so that sounds right.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
I thought there was a real possibility that he was
going to lean into more that March fourteenth vibe, for
lack of a sophisticated term, where we're going to get
more of that reflective Drake that Sandras rose that March fourteenth,
motionless even to some extent, right, But he really kind
of zagged off of that and he went back to
the formula that has always worked well for him, which

(01:19:19):
is make music that is going to pop in the
clubs and it's going to get people to sing and
then eventually enter this beef with the most diabolical successful
rapper of our time, which clearly was a misstep on
his part. I think back then, post Scorpion, I would
have had more belief is that this could be a possibility,

(01:19:40):
But now can in my view right because a lot
of rap and hip hop is subjective. In my view,
can he make a project that reaches the heights of nothing?
Was the same take care even if you're reading this
is too late, has a lot of appeal For me.
I'm less optimistic that we're going to get there because

(01:20:00):
the formula is or that he executed with Kendrick was
take time off, get fake abs, and then come and
then and then I know you saw that Instagram post
as well, which, by the way, the video for what
did I miss? The second half I really enjoy when
he's just like in rooms rapping, But the first half

(01:20:20):
my man is just surrounded by like one hundred and
fifty firearms.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Yeah that's which which screams hell all the way real.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
Yeah, but it's h two dgs. There's no other way
to do what we got to be all the way real.
It's concerning like this is not and bro, you got,
you got young people looking at you as a role model.
Still to this day, I feel like this performance of
masculinity and he just fascinates me. I'm less optimistic as

(01:20:48):
the formula of what did I miss? Aka the lebron
dis extended. It's interesting, it's interesting, is juicy? But is
it gonna be a memorable track on a great album?
I don't know. And then Nokia. Can you think about
how many shoe Palace locations right now and foot locker?
Dare I say are playing Nokia as we speak? It's

(01:21:10):
a song, It's a song for jen Alpha shoppers in
shoe Palace and in foot locker right now, But I
would argue it's not a song thought for a great
album at this stage for Drake. And again does the
final thing I want to say that could partially be
my subjective thoughts as a longtime listener of Drake's. Whereas
you said you were bringing it back to amen, I'm

(01:21:33):
just thinking what I envisioned where Drake would be in
twenty twenty five. Not saying full Dad rap, but I
thought we were going to get more of that March
fourteenth aesthetic, if you will, where it's like, yo, what
I was rapping about on so Far Gone or Thank
Me Later. That's just not me anymore because I'm just
in a different stage of life. I can still make

(01:21:54):
good music. And it turns out that we've just kind
of regressed back to Nokia is Becky? Is it Chelsea?
Who are one of the many women in my phone
that I can call the You know, I don't know,
play scrabble or whatever whatever you do? You know, that's
not I just feel like, Brah, you're almost forty. Like yeah,

(01:22:14):
I would like to think that all of us grow
when we learn from mistakes. But I just wanted to
moar that March fourteenth, and I don't know, aside from
Madonna is popping up in videos, I don't know that
the body of work has actually been reflective of what
I thought it would be at this stage in his career.
So I'll always have an affinity for the music unless
he does something like incredibly terrible. But it just makes

(01:22:37):
me sad that we haven't gotten that. I am less
optimistic than you that we're going to have another great
But would I would consider another great Drake album because
I think he's put out many of them. But it's
been a smooth ten years since he's put out one
of those, and for me, that would be if you're
reading this, it was too late, which I think came
out in twenty fifteen. We've had a full decade of

(01:22:57):
his career that has included some bright spot but has
also included some some pretty low moments.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
Yeah. Man, I think it's like Hulk and Banner right,
what we've seen in the recent Marvel movies, like there
was once upon a time he had no problems getting angry.
After a while, it was harder to get in that mold.
And I think it's a similar thing with Drake, Like
he shows us flashes why my brain fart and tied
when he after the like what was the what was it?

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Scary hours? Scary hours, scary hours.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
When he dropped that, it was like, yo, where you been?
And then he went right back. It's like he wants
to get green and then he doesn't. He wants to
get green and he doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
You know, Yeah, and then and then there's the you know, okay,
you're using halle Berry's uh like photo that didn't help
for that song with Sis, which is interesting because like
Sciss's team cantrip. But anyway, but then it turns out
you didn't ask for consent from Halle. Yeah, you're gonna
you're gonna choose to not only disrespect Serena, but then
another icon and Halle Berry, and you think the culture

(01:24:02):
is gonna be on your side.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Yeah, man, it's you can't do that that much cash, Yeah,
you can't do And that's the.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
Song and the music is trash.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
It's like, to your point, he he he bit off
a little more than he could chew, you know, like
it's just he he took his mind is touched a
little too far. You know. It's like the legends will
check you.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
The legends will check slot slim you out, Like Drake
and Siza on a track to me that would have
that has so much potential. Yeah, and it just it
just from my ears, doesn't work. And then fast forward
a year or two later, and you know, Kendrick and
Sizza are on uh Luther, which is kind of like
the Instagram's Instagram song of the Year and one of

(01:24:44):
the one of my favorite tracks off gn X. It's like, man,
just these misfires, just I appreciate you indulging me because
I think about Drake's career every so often I'm like, man,
there's a few different ways this could have played out,
and yet here we are in this, in this moment,
in this yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:01):
And I'll just say to like, at least if if
And that's the thing, Like, I don't want to make
it seem like you were getting down on Drake because
the thing I say, Drake, Drake ran into rappers, like
rappers who rap like Push A T. And Kendrick, like
you said, diabolical. They do their homework like you don't
just wrap to them, Like if you're gonna wrap to them,

(01:25:23):
you better be ready. And and it's not Drake's. It's
not Drake's fault that two of these top tier MC's
came at him, Like you know, it's when you think
about the two major beefs he's had, they were with
some heavyweights, Like you know, it's like at that point,
it's like a good game, Drake.

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
You know, you did what you could. Bro Like maybe
and maybe not as commercially successful as him. You could
probably argue that now with Ryan Drake and the incredible
two years he's had, but even Push a T right
nowhere near as commercially successful. But I saw this tweet.
I don't know if this was from your burner account.
It probably wasn't, because you have moral and wouldn't have
a burner account. But it said push your tea wraps

(01:26:04):
like a horror.

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
Movie wraps like a horror movie.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Like a horror movie. Yeah. Like, like just the vibe,
the aesthetic is like if you're gonna, if you're gonna,
if you're gonna. Okay, the the maybe confidence that Drake
gang because you brought up this name earlier. I think
the confidence that Drake gained from not only being the
most successful hip hop artist of a generation, but also

(01:26:30):
to win the Meek Mill Beef pretty decisively. Is that
a world tour? Is that your girls tour? M like
you pretty much bodied meek Mill? Like I like Meek
Mill on the on the soundtrack for Creed shout out
to your Philly viewers, But he pretty much bodied meek Mill. Yeah. However,

(01:26:54):
to parlay that into a push of tea beef and
then to follow that up another their diabolical sub six
foot rapper and Kendricks.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
It's in poetic fashion. It's like the Raptors. You ran
into Lebron. You ran into Lebron like it was nothing.
It wasn't entirely all's faht you ran into Lebron.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
You know, maybe shout out to you for thinking you
could win it. You can just leave immediately. But when
we think about athlete, because this is what you do
so brilliantly on h TWOG, we think about artists. We
think about athletes and just the maybe five or ten
potential ways their careers could have played out. Right, You

(01:27:36):
think of like, let's say maybe a Brandon Roy for example,
and if health was on his side, Okay, there's a
different world in which man him and Greg Odin and
LaMarcus Aldridge probably getting to a title and maybe winning
that that championship. You think about in this case, let's
say a Drake, just because that's what we've been focusing on.
You think about the different ways his career could have

(01:27:58):
played out, Like there was a time where I feel
like Drake's popularity rating was pretty insane and universally people
are really willing to give him a chance. But the
goodwill that I think he's really kind of tarnished is unfortunate.
But I guess he still got you and I this.
You say it's possible. I say, maybe there's an Avenue,
even if I'm not optimistic.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
Yeah, I'm just not naturally optimistic. Man, I can't help it.
I think he has it in him. He just I
don't know if he will do it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:26):
That's fair, and he's getting that shoe palace money, you
know how I feel. I want to know if the
Toronto Tempo next year, speaking of the w We've spoken
about this on and off air, if the Toronto Tempo
are factoring him into any promotional plans. That's the hoops
of it all, because if you would have said, oh,
Toronto's getting the WNBA franchise five ten years ago, I

(01:28:48):
think it's inevitable that Drake is going to be at
the forefront of that. He's going to perform at halftime, X,
Y and Z. But now you and I spoke about
this on Gimmick Infringement. Tempo don't need Drake, and it's
probably better they don't include him. Yeah, for reasons.

Speaker 2 (01:29:04):
Yeah, certainly in the the Median future, you know they
may give in down the line. You know, time time
does that. But yeah, no, that's a good point, though Ty.
But man Ty, we just did. We did a little
bit of everything in this episode. It was only right
it was only right man, from Michelle Tims to great
hip hop name drops and discussions and uh you know,
great five by five from Tye. Just a historic episode

(01:29:27):
all around from you.

Speaker 3 (01:29:28):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
I once again I appreciate you for your time and
bringing that passionate fandom to H two d G and
reminding us all why not only that we just had
to watch and we should have been there for Michelle Tims,
but that you know, hip hop and basketball continue to
go hand in hand and and and there's plenty of
great artists and great basketball players to to follow and

(01:29:51):
be fans of. Of course, with the w as as
it just continues to ascend, we'll get more players who
will take the baton that that was dropped off by
Michelle Tims and all. This is really what Hip to
the Games is all about. Man. So I appreciate you.
But before you go, please let our listener and viewer
here know how they can follow you and keep up
what everything you got going on.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
Dez, thank you so much for the opportunity. I love
everything you do with H two d G. It is
truly not only do I consider it a blessing to
know you, but an honor to be invited back and
we got time for Drake for two. I think it
was important, it was topical, but no man. You can
find me at Tyler J. McDowell specifically on Instagram and

(01:30:35):
the two shows that I'm blessed to be a part of.
So as you mentioned earlier days, Gimmick Infringement, Pro Wrestling,
Pop Culture. Every single Monday, you can follow us at
gipod nineteen across the social space. Is really honored to
be a part of nineteen media group with the great
co host, my great co host, Brad Winchester, and yourself
amongst a stacked roster. And then you can also follow

(01:30:57):
a personal project of mine that's very near and dear
to my heart, which is for Aasy. You can follow
us at for Easy Teach, shining a spotlight on the
stories of Arizona's black educators. Four percent of Arizona's teacher
workforce are black educators, and so we have a show,
we have a platform to really showcase those stories and moreover,

(01:31:20):
just uplift the profession. Especially now public education is under
attack and we have a responsibility to fight back. So
again that's for Easy Teach. We just wrapped up season
two this brother right here was our opening guest for
season two, episode one, to discuss the one year anniversary
of the pop out Kendrick Lamar in the classroom. And

(01:31:42):
more so, thank you Dez for blessing us with your presence.
Again that's for easy teach. Season two just wrapped up
seven great episodes. Check it out. Thank you for having me, Dez,
and of course much love and blessings to you and
your audience here on this great platform.

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
Man, there you have a time. Appreciate you all. And
our listener should have peeped that you just dropped the
bar when you was talking about four a Z attack back.
I don't even know if you peep that, but so
you know, Tyler, you do it, You do it. This
is the most h two DG episode in a minute, man,
so I love it. But there you have it. Thank you, Tyler,

(01:32:19):
and thank you for another episode of Hip to the Games.
All for the love of the best combo there is
and of course he is a huge shout out to
you for being Hip to the Games and tuning in
once again, peace out and God bless I hope you
enjoyed this episode of Hip to the Games and if
you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to hit up the
socials at Desmond Power, Underscore and at Hip to the

(01:32:39):
Games on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok so you don't miss
out on the fund and please follow or subscribe to
the show and leave a review on the podcast platform
you're on right now, as your support is greatly appreciated,

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